May 13, 2004 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY

PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLV No. 30

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!

This afternoon we would like to welcome some visitors to our galleries. To my

immediate right, we have some students from Marystown Central High School from

the District of Burin-Placentia West, twenty-one students, and their chaperones:

Vivian Rose, Carl Rose, and Mary McCarthy. We are delighted to have you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Also to the Speaker's right, we have thirty-two junior

high school students and they are from Hillview Academy in Norris Arm, in the

District of Lewisporte. We would like to welcome them to our House of Assembly

with their teachers: Rosanna Hillier, Wayne West, Sheldon Kirby, and their bus

driver Dan Penton.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Also in the galleries this afternoon, to the Speaker's

left, we have members of the executive of the Right to Life Association: Ms

Noreen Brien, Reverend Fabian Ollerhead, Mr. Patrick Hanlon, Ms Karen Hynes and

Miss Betsy Gill. I would like to welcome them as well.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: This afternoon we have statements by members. The Speaker

has knowledge of the following statements: the Member for Burin-Placentia West,

the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans, the Member for Mount Pearl, the Member for

St. John's North, and the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.

The hon. the Member for Burin-Placentia West.

MR. GRIMES: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: I am sorry, I did not see the hon. Leader of the Opposition

rising on a point of order.

A point of order being called by the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would just like to raise this point before we move to the regular

proceedings of the day.

As everyone knows in the Legislature, we are now at a stage, a very important

stage, of the Budget Debate, the Estimates Committees, where we do a very

important function of the Budget Debate and a very important function of this

House. It is not done in a televised setting, but it is an adjunct of exactly

what we are doing right here in this Legislature, an important part of it. It is

an essential part, Mr. Speaker, I think everyone acknowledges, of the Budget

Debate itself.

The tradition has been - and we have checked this with the Chair and with the

Table, the Table Officers - the tradition has been that the minister responsible

has always been there to answer the questions for the department in which the

Estimates are being examined, because that is the point - and there were

questions yesterday that were raised in Question Period, where ministers said:

Those are questions that are more appropriate for the Estimates because you are

looking for detail. It is a very detailed examination.

Mr. Speaker, tonight in this Legislature we have slated again the detailed

examination of the Budget for the new Department of Business, and everybody in

the Province knows that the minister responsible is the Premier. The minister

responsible is not available and the Opposition has offered, on several

occasions, to defer and delay and accommodate the Premier's

schedule as the

minister responsible so that we can get the detailed answers from the minister

responsible, who happens to be the Premier.

We have been told, Mr. Speaker, by the Government House Leader, that the

Minister of Finance would be here instead, and that he would be available to

answer the questions. Yesterday in the House of Assembly, the Minister of

Finance, while answering questions about transportation, and while answering

questions about human resources and employment, and student employment

opportunities - and it is in Hansard - acknowledged that: I do not know the

details of every department and I cannot really give you a full answer to these

questions. I would prefer that you wait and not ask about layoffs because I will

have to get more information from the minister later.

Mr. Speaker, now we are being asked to accept that minister tonight for the

detailed examination about the new Department of Business. In our view, as the

Official Opposition, that defeats the whole purpose of a very important and

integral part of the process for Budget examination. We are again, I state,

ready to accommodate the Premier's

schedule at any time so that he can come

and talk to us about the details of the new Department of Business, that he is

the minister responsible for, that it is his own brainchild as to what it is and

why it should be there.

Mr. Speaker, the question that I raise for you in the point of order is this:

If there is no agreed-to change, which we would still like to see accommodated,

that we arrange it at some other time, at the Premier's convenience some time

in the next three weeks, the question in the point of order for you, Mr.

Speaker, is this: What is the status of a Committee meeting, of an Estimates

Committee meeting, if the Vice-Chair, who is from the Official Opposition, and

the Official Opposition members of the Committee, are not present at the

meeting, Mr. Speaker? I would like clarification on that particular issue

because we are going to have to deal with that matter some time between now and

7 o'clock this evening, and we would not want to see anything go astray with

respect to the very important Estimates procedure.

We think what is being laid before us right now defeats the whole intent and

purpose and we have not had the co-operation of the government at this point. We

are willing to co-operate at any time. We have not had an opportunity to speak

to the Premier directly as to when he might like to appear. That being the case,

unless there is some agreement and some understanding, the question would be:

What is the status of that very important, critical Committee meeting if there

are no members of the Opposition present when the Committee attends to the

business before it, Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I do not know how to deal with this point. I think it is more of a point of

frustration by the Leader of the Opposition than anything. Let me deal with it

in this regard. The Leader of the Opposition was Premier of the Province and,

understanding the Estimates - he has been here for fourteen years -

understanding how the Estimate procedure works, part of the Estimates, for

example, are debated in the House. The Premier's Office, for example, is

debated in the House.

In the eleven years that I have been here, former Premier Wells, former

Premier Tobin, former Premier Tulk and, more importantly, former Premier Grimes,

when debating the Estimates of the Premier's Office, and salaries, not once

did any of those Premiers ever show up in this House so that we could ask them

about their Estimates. Guess who did it? It was the Minister of Finance,

debating Executive Council and providing answers on behalf of the Leader of the

Opposition, who was then Premier. Mr. Speaker, what we have here is more of a

political exercise and a bit of theatre.

I understand the point that they are trying to make in terms of - the

Estimate procedures will go ahead tonight. Whether members of the Opposition

wish to show up and participate in that debate, that is clearly their choice,

but I can tell you what will happen tonight. The Estimates will proceed. The

Minister of Finance will not be there tonight, the Minister of Industry will be

there, and government members of the Committee will show up and debate those

Estimates. Whether members on the Resource Committee, from the Opposition,

choose to come or choose not to come, that is their choice, but the opportunity

certainly will be provided for them.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

To the point of order, I do not know - first of all, I would like to

distinguish what the Government House Leader just said about Premiers who did

not appear here in the House when Estimates were being done versus the situation

that was addressed by the Leader of the Opposition.

We are not dealing with a situation where the Premier, as the Premier, is

failing or refusing to attend an Estimates Committee. We are dealing with the

Premier of this Province in his capacity - as he himself appointed himself - the

minister responsible for the newly created Department of Business. That is

certainly a very distinct situation from what has been alluded to by the

Government House Leader, which was a case where Premiers, instead of being here,

had Ministers of Finance deal with the overall Estimates on their behalf.

Mr. Speaker, the Government House Leader referred to this as a political

exercise. I do not know what is political about the Opposition or the people of

this Province insisting and expecting that the minister of a department would

answer to the people of this Province for his or her department. I do not know

what the Minister of Business or the Government House Leader might have to fear

from his attendance. If it was such a great idea to have a department and to

make yourself the minister of it, what is wrong with a reasonable request that

you would like to have the person who established it and the person who is the

head of it, answer questions about it? It fails me. For the life of me, I cannot

understand.

If we were imposing upon the Premier's schedule, I can understand where he

would say: I would have to reschedule it. That is not an issue. That has been

addressed. The Opposition will attend, at any time that this House is open in

this spring sitting, so that this Premier, the Minister of Business, can do that

Estimates Committee. It is a matter of the Government House Leader, who refuses

to even ask the Premier - the Premier is out of the country, he has refused to

even ask the Premier, who is the minister, if he is prepared to agree to such a

rescheduling. The Government House Leader, and that is where I question another

point: Can the Government House Leader speak for the Premier, in saying: I am

not going to attend? I am not even going to ask him, the Government House Leader

said. Now, how can we accept such dictatorial behaviour and expect to call this

a democracy when one of the procedures that has been in this government for

twenty-five years - without exception, ministers appear.

We had a case as early as this morning. I just received notification from the

Member for Trinity North, who chairs one of the Estimates Committees, saying: Do

you mind, we are going to change the Education Estimates from Monday to another

date, any problem? No, there is no problem because the Minister of Education

could not be available, and the Opposition accommodate them. The Minister of

Natural Resources, the Government House Leader, himself, asked me this week: Do

you mind if we reschedule the estimates for Natural Resources from this week to

next week? We agreed. We are only asking the same thing of the Department of

Business. Can we reschedule so that the Premier can answer the questions? Now,

it is either the case of the Premier is afraid to speak for the department that

he created, or the Premier does not know what he might be asked and is afraid

that he might not know the answers.

Mr. Speaker, I say to the Government House Leader, I did the courtesy of

listening to him, now maybe you do not like to hear the points that I am making

here that are very rational points, but again, the people of this Province have

to know: Why is a democratically accepted and operating piece of this

Legislature, for example, Estimates - and, as I just said, there are two

examples where we have changed them already this week. Why are we being dictated

to and having it driven down the throats of the people of this Province again,

that it is our way or no way? What does the Premier of this Province have to

fear from appearing before an Estimates Committee to deal with facts about his

own department? Answer the people.

MR. SPEAKER: The Chair will look at several issues that have been raised.

The Chair will get back to the House this afternoon, no later than around 4 o'clock

after we have some time following Question Period when I can consult with the

Table Officers and also look at some of the precedents that we may have in our

own House. But before the afternoon is up, the Chair will make a ruling on this

particular matter.

Statements by Members, the hon. the Member for Burin-Placentia West.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN: Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure today to rise and

welcome the students from Marystown Central High School in the great District of

Burin-Placentia West. I would like at this time to thank their chaperones and

the students for their interest in this House and the happenings that occur

within. They would like to extend a thank you, to you, Mr. Speaker, for

providing them with a tour.

Mr. Speaker, these students represent two groups within the school. One group

is attending the Techsploration Event being sponsored by the Women's Resource

Centre as part of a mentorship program aimed at encouraging women to enter the

engineering and science field.

The second group come from the Exceptionally Abled Program which has been

operating at Marystown Central High School now for several years very

successfully.

Mr. Speaker, the talents of Ms Jennifer Walsh, I have mentioned before in a

previous Member's Statement. Today, I would officially like to recognize

Jennifer and inform all members of this House that you will likely hear her

voice through the mediums of radio or television this coming summer. Ladies and

gentlemen of this House, Jennifer wrote and performed the official theme song

for the Newfoundland and Labrador Summer Games which are being held in Marystown

from August 7-14.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The member's time has expired.

MR. JACKMAN: By leave?

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. JACKMAN: As well, Mr. Speaker, some of these students have recently

attended events in Ottawa. Jennifer Walsh and Gillian Green have attended The

Encounters With Youth Canada, and Matthew Moulton attended the Forum for Young

Canadians. Another student in this group, Sarah Graham, has been awarded an

entrance scholarship in the amount of $3,500 to Memorial.

Mr. Speaker, I congratulate all of these students and their chaperons, and I

wish them all the best in the future.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to congratulate a student in my district on his

recent accomplishments in francophone public speaking.

Mr. Speaker, Yuri Gidge, a student of Exploits Valley High in Grand

Falls-Windsor, is one of eight students recognized from across the entire

Province of Newfoundland and Labrador for his skills in francophone public

speaking. The contest, sponsored by the Canadian Parents for French Newfoundland

and Labrador, was a successful event and included forty-five students from

across the Province.

From this contest, Yuri won the right to be part of a group that will attend

a Franco-Forum summer camp in St. Pierre this summer.

These students have also been invited to attend and compete in a national

speak-off in Edmonton, Alberta, this May 29 th .

Mr. Speaker, I would like all members of this House to join with me in

congratulating Yuri Gidge and wish him a successful national competition, an

enjoyable summer camp, and continued success with his francophone studies.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Mount Pearl.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DENINE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I stand here today to congratulate the participants and winners of the public

speaking activity held at St. Peter's Elementary in Mount Pearl.

The students were articulate, clear and full of confidence. They were fine

examples of the quality of young people we have in this Province for our future.

I congratulate them all.

Mr. Speaker, I was one of the judges for the speaking competition, and I must

say it was a very difficult deciding on the winners. The experience gained by

all speakers will be very valuable, and I wish them all good luck in their

future endeavours.

Without further ado, Mr. Speaker, the winners and runners-up are: Grade

4,winner, Matthew Morry, runners-up, Julia Mercer and Kaitlyn Hickey; Grade V,

winner, Sean Leonard, runners-up, Stephanie Gallant and Samantha McGrath; Grade

VI, winner, Amy Holwell, runners-up, Erin Shea and Michael Brushett.

Mr. Speaker, I ask this House to join with me in congratulating the students,

teachers and parents who helped with this important activity.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's North.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDGLEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, tonight, tomorrow night, and Saturday night, the Prince of Wales

Collegiate production of Les Misrables will be presented at the Mount

Pearl Glacier. The show was originally scheduled for the Arts and Culture Centre

in April but, unfortunately, was postponed by the labour dispute.

As many will know, Les Misrables is a story set in early Nineteenth

Century France and is a story of poverty, love, and revolution, but above all

the strength of the human spirit. In addition to the untold hours of practice by

the cast, and the work of more than 100 volunteers, the school has invested

approximately $50,000 to bring this production to the stage. It is truly

unfortunate that they were forced to struggle to find another venue for the

production but, like the characters in the play, they have conquered adversity

and the show will go on.

At this point, the tickets have not all been sold, so I would encourage

anyone and everyone who wants an enjoyable night, while at the same time lending

support to an extremely hard working group of our youth, to contact the Glacier

and book a ticket.

Come out and see Josh Case as Jean Valjean, Leslie Cunningham as Fantine, and

witness an extraordinary presentation.

I offer my complete support to these students and I ask the general public,

as well as members of this House, to offer any support possible to this very

deserving group of students.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MANNING: Mr. Speaker, our Province of Newfoundland and Labrador has

reaped tremendous benefits from thousands of our residents who freely volunteer

their time and talents to make this place we call home a better place to live.

One of these volunteers was recently recognized for more than fifty years of

volunteerism in the District of Placentia & St. Mary's, and I am pleased

today to add my congratulations to Mrs. Eva Coffey of Angel's Cove, Placentia

Bay.

Eva, or as she is known by some "the shah" has spent the last five

decades contributing freely to her community, her region, and indeed to the

Province as a whole.

Following in the footsteps of her father, Mr. Richard Dalton, Eva began a

business on the Cape Shore many years ago. From the Hilltop Lounge to Eva's

store and gas bar in Angel's Cove, she interacted with many, sought donations

from several, and sold tickets to everyone. From organizing and funding the

Santa Claus parades, to a long service member of the Cape Shore Area Development

Association, to the founding member of the Cape Shore Crime Prevention Committee

and the Angel's Cove Recreation Committee, Eva was always there.

Eva also spent several years as a member of the Angel's Cove/Patrick's

Cove local service district association, involved with the Friends of the Cape

St. Mary's Association, an active member of our parish community, and a great

friend to Fatima Academy at St. Bride's.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The member's time has expired.

MR. MANNING: By leave, Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: By leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. MANNING: Still today, at the tender age of eighty-three, Eva serves

as Treasurer of the Cape Shore Area Seniors Housing Association.

For fifty-plus years, Eva has given of herself to others and, on April 18,

surrounded by family and friends at the Fairmont Hotel here in St. John's, the

Community Service Council presented Eva with a prestigious award for her years

of volunteerism. My only regret is that I was not able to be present as she was

so rightfully presented and recognized for her efforts.

I have known Eva for many years, have had the privilege of serving on many

boards and committees with her, and can attest to the fact that neither the

words "no" or "can't" are not part of her vocabulary, and

she always gave 100 per cent to everything she was part of.

I ask all Members of the House of Assembly to join with me today in

congratulating Mrs. Eva Coffey on receiving her award and wish her many more

years of health and happiness as she continues with her volunteer work.

Thank you, Eva, for a job well done.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to announce today that the tenders for municipal

capital works projects are projected to exceed $100 million in 2004.

Approximately 260 capital works projects across Newfoundland and Labrador, at

a total cost of about $100 million, will create up to 60,000 person-weeks of

direct and indirect employment. These projects are providing residents of our

Province with important employment and they will help strengthen the economy of

Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, projects are funded under the Canada-Newfoundland and Labrador

Infrastructure Program, the Municipal Capital Works Program, the Multi-Year

Capital Works Program, as well as the Labrador Inuit Communities Agreement. The

provincial government will contribute approximately $52 million towards

completion of these projects. Municipal governments will contribute about $38

million, with the balance of $10 million to be funded by the federal government.

Projects under the cost-sharing programs include: water treatment, water and

sewer services, waste management, paving, improvements to municipal buildings,

firefighting equipment and recreation. These projects will improve the quality

of life for our residents and they will help make our municipalities vibrant and

strong.

Mr. Speaker, in addition, the Province remains committed to the St. John's

Harbour cleanup. The Government of Newfoundland and Labrador has committed

one-third of the $93 million for the project. The remainder of the funding will

be cost-shared between the federal government and the City of St. John's, the

City of Mount Pearl, and the Town of Paradise.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. LANGDON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to thank the minister for a copy of the statement before coming

to the House. It is great to see the capital works program being announced for

the Province so that some of the projects that are needed, as he said, for

strong and vibrant communities, can begin.

As the minister would know, many of these projects were already negotiated.

They are in their second, third and fourth year stage as multi-year capital

works for the large municipalities they had an opportunity to work with, and

also the commitment that is made there by the provincial government and by the

municipalities.

One thing, though, that really sticks out in this particular statement by the

minister is the paltry amount that is given by the federal government; $52

million all together, $38 million by the municipalities and $10 million by the

federal government. They can like us all they like, we can do whatever we like

as far as having a good relationship with them, but it has to be more than that.

They have to deliver, and if they deliver to the extent that the municipalities

and the provincial government would be delivering -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The member's time has expired.

MR. LANGDON: Just to clue up?

MR. SPEAKER: Does the member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. LANGDON: If they were to deliver the same amount, the $52 million by

the Province, and $38 million by the municipalities, then we could have a much

bigger project. We could employment many more people, and the vibrancy of the

communities, especially those in the rural part of the Province, could achieve

more, and more could be done.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we, too, are pleased to see the announcement of $100 million in

municipal capital works projects for this year. It is, of course, as the

previous speaker noted, noteworthy that the federal government is not

contributing significantly, although they have signed on to the harbour cleanup

in St. John's, a project that we think is very important and vital to be

carried on, but all throughout Newfoundland and Labrador, each and every

municipality depends on support from the provincial government to have

significant projects going, Mr. Speaker, and we hope that this government will

commit itself to continuing the level of support that is needed to allow

communities to grow and to prosper in this Province.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to inform my colleagues in the House, and the people of

Newfoundland and Labrador, of another important event in the progress of the

White Rose oil project. As soon as weather permits, a 1200-tonne module will

leave on a barge from the Bull Arm fabrication site and make its way to the

Kiewit Offshore Services Facility in Marystown.

In April 2003, North Eastern Constructors Limited was awarded the contract by

Aker Maritime Kiewit Contractors, more commonly known as AMKC, to fabricate two

topsides modules for the White Rose FPSO at the Bull Arm fabrication facility.

The larger of the two modules, the main electrical room, has just been

completed. The other module, the local electrical room, was completed and

shipped to the Kiewit Offshore Services facility in Cow Head in November 2003.

During peak construction, the main electrical room module provided employment

for up to 300 skilled tradespeople at the Bull Arm site. Like the smaller module

completed in November, the main electrical room has been completed on

schedule

and is a testimony to the abilities of this Provinces's skilled workforce and

to the capabilities of one of our local companies, North Eastern Constructors

Limited. It also demonstrates that our facilities at Bull Arm present a

competitive and strategic advantage to companies involved in heavy industrial

activities, particularly for the offshore oil and gas industry.

Mr. Speaker, the modules completed at Bull Arm will b e loaded aboard the

White Rose FPSO, Sea Rose , which arrived in Marystown in April. The

arrival of the Sea Rose is another milestone in the development of this

Province's oil and gas industry, as the third major oil project. Husky Energy

continues to deliver on its commitments that the bulk of the topsides

engineering, fabrication, hook-up and commissioning requirements for White Rose

are completed in the Province. According to Husky Energy, this $2.35 billion

project is on schedule. Mr. Speaker, on behalf of all members I would like to

commend the workforce at both Bull Arm and the Marystown-Cow Head facilities for

their commitment and dedication and the expertise that they have shown to the

job at hand.

Mr. Speaker, as each of our oil fields has come into production, our capacity

to meet the demands of the petroleum industry has expanded. Our companies have

risen to meet the challenges of the industry, and our workforce is up to the

task of providing the skills necessary, the knowledge and now the experience to

support this industry. We are a competitive player in the oil and gas industry,

something that I witnessed directly, Mr. Speaker, down at the recent OTC

conference in Houston.

Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. PARSONS: Thank You, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the minister for an advanced copy of his statement. It is, indeed,

good news to see that this module is ready. It is actually the first module done

in the history of our offshore industry in this Province that has come in on

time and on budget. It is nice also to know that it was the former

Administration that arranged for the use of the Bull Arm fabrication site.

AN HON. MEMBER: Hear, hear!

MR. PARSONS: In fact, Mr. Speaker, it was due to the insistence of the

former Administration that Bull Arm was even included in the White Rose package.

Upon the insistence, 80 per cent of all the work associated with the White Rose

project is indeed being done in this Province, thanks to the insistence of the

former Administration, notwithstanding the comments at that time of the MHA for

Trinity North, who felt that is was not sufficient, we were not doing enough. It

is nice to see. I understand from the TV reports actually, that 99.9 per cent of

the employees on the module were Newfoundlanders and Labradorians who were

working on that site.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. PARSONS: They do, indeed, deserve to be commended for a job well

done. But, now that the government has chosen this Liberal initiative to - I

call it a polling period fluff since we are in a polling period, I guess, and

you want to get out some good news. We look forward, Mr. Speaker, to seeing what

this new Administration is now going to do about Bull Arm after today. Once we

see the float out of what the Liberals have done in Bull Arm this couple of

weeks time, we look forward to seeing what they are going to do at Bull Arm next

year and what are they going to float in there to see that these people continue

to have a job. We currently have a Bull Arm corporation that has no permanent

Chair, has no Vice-Chair. We would even like to see some news from the

government as to what your future plans are rather than trying to take credit on

the backs of something that someone else has already done.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is pretty clear from the history of Hibernia, Terra Nova and now with

White Rose that the people of this Province, and the workers of this Province

have the capability to do a very excellent job in producing equipment and

facilities for our offshore. There is no doubt about that, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HARRIS: Clearly, as time goes on, we are getting more and more of the

action when it comes to developments.

Mr. Speaker, I did hear a very prominent Newfoundlander, Craig Dobbin, this

morning talking in general about our offshore and he kind of echoed, in his way,

some of the things I have been saying. He said: One thing about our offshore -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The member's time has expired.

MR. HARRIS: By leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. HARRIS: - we are not getting the dough and we are not getting the

jobs - and very succinctly set out the problem that we have with our offshore.

We are not getting the return from our oil and gas resources that we should.

That has to be fixed. Also, we are not getting a sufficient number of jobs. Even

the 80 per cent that the previous speaker referred to is 80 per cent of what the

oil companies thought could be done in Newfoundland being done here. We think

more can be done in the short and long term.

We hope, Mr. Speaker, that the government which promises the new approach

will also adopt a new regime that will ensure that we get more in the future

developments than we have gotten in the past, both in terms of jobs and

production, but also in terms of royalties in return to the people of

Newfoundland and Labrador.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further Statements by Ministers? Oral Questions?

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, my questions are for the Minister of Fisheries and

Aquaculture.

Mr. Speaker, the people living in one of the most economically depressed

areas in our Province find themselves in another tough situation this week. Mr.

Speaker, I am talking about the lobster fishermen and women on the West and

Northwest of our Province who have had their livelihoods practically wiped out

by two storms in recent weeks.

I ask the minister: What representation has he made to the federal government

for financial assistance on their behalf, and to whom?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture and

Labrador Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I can tell the Member for Twillingate & Fogo, that, as everybody else is,

we are well aware of the situation on the West Coast of the Province, the storm

damage that was caused over the past weekend. We have been, through our

officials, ascertaining the extent of the damage and we have estimated that it

is up somewhere in the vicinity, in property damage, of about $2 million. We

have made representation to the federal government, through the minister's

regional office here in St. John's, looking for financial assistance for those

people in the former of disaster relief.

Mr. Speaker, that is all I can report on the matter for right now. We are

awaiting a response from the federal minister, Minister Efford, and I hope to

speak with him this afternoon. I am expecting to hear from him sometime around

three o'clock.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Twillingate &

Fogo.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I don't know if the minister heard Mr. Byrne, the federal MP

for that district, on CBC radio this morning, but he certainly gave the

impression that there would be no financial assistance coming from the federal

government. In light of the fact that he has now said this, I ask you, as the

Minister of Fisheries for the Province: Will you step in with an emergency

relief program for the affected individuals?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture and

Labrador Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I agree with the Member for Twillingate & Fogo. I also heard the MP for

Humber-St. Barbe, Mr. Byrne, on this morning saying that he didn't anticipate

any financial assistance from the federal government. However, Mr. Speaker, we

will continue to press for this, given the magnitude of the situation. He did

indicate that with Hurricane Juan, I believe it was, there was no assistance to

people in Nova Scotia. However, Mr. Speaker, I think when Hurricane Juan blew

through, no lobster fishery, and, for that matter, not much of a fishery, was on

the go in Nova Scotia at that time and there wasn't much in the way of fishing

gear damage.

Mr. Speaker, we will press the federal government. The harvesting sector, as

the member knows, is a federal responsibility and we neither have the programs

nor the capability to deal with a problem of this magnitude at this time.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

So, what the minister is saying is that the provincial government - of which

he is a minister - will not give any assistance to those affected people on the

West and the Northwest Coast of the Province. I am glad you clarified that for

the people in that area.

Mr. Speaker, I will move on to another issue, again on the Northwest Coast of

the Province. We are now into the second week of crab fishing and you still have

not settled the problem concerning the crab licence in New Ferolle. The minister

knows that with each passing week the plant workers in that area are becoming

less and less likely to obtain the required number of hours to qualify for EI. I

ask you: What are you going to do about this, or are you telling these people

that you are not going to do anything about it and that they should move to the

mainland to seek employment? Is this what you are saying?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and

Labrador Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In response to the first commentary, if his previous Administration had not

done away with the gear replacement program in the spring of 2003 - March 6, as

I recall - then maybe there would be a gear replacement program still in place.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, the gear was disposed of, the gear was sold off.

There is no gear available in the Province's inventory right now to respond.

That is that point.

On the second point, on New Ferolle, we have waited for a response from the

parties involved on another proposal. We have, as of my walking into the House

today at 1:30, not received anything. Prior to my coming into the House, Mr.

Speaker, I did show some leadership in this matter, as I have been trying to do

all the way through. We did send a letter to the parties involved: Mr. Eveleigh

representing Ice Cap Fish Co., and Mr. Doyle representing James Doyle (Sr.)

& Sons Limited, and proposed -

MR. SPEAKER: I ask the minister now to complete his answer quickly.

MR. TAYLOR: Yes, Mr. Speaker.

We proposed an interim arrangement whereby we could see the plant operational

in very short order with these matters dealt with by November 1, if it is

agreeable to the parties, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

1993. I was not a part of the government at that time. I would also like to say

to the minister, simply because a program was cancelled in 1993 does not give

the minister an excuse that he cannot come forward to help these people today.

I ask him again, Mr. Speaker: What is he going to do for those lobster

fishermen and women on the West and Northwest Coast of this Province who, as he

knows, probably will not qualify for EI this year because his government refuses

to act?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and

Labrador Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, if the member had been listening he would have heard me say

2003. It was last spring, about this time, that the previous Administration made

a decision - when he was in Cabinet - to end the gear replacement program, to

end the lobster pot replacement program, and to dispose of the pots that were

remaining in inventory, even though, Mr. Speaker - I will say this - had they

not done it, our capabilities would still have been very limited to be able to

respond to this devastation on the West Coast. There are many thousands of pots

demolished over there. There is $2 million in damage and, whether or not we were

prepared to do it, we could not snap our fingers and tomorrow get the many

thousands of pots that were required to replace the gear that was lost to assist

these fishermen. We will press the federal government to step in on disaster

relief, but only the federal government can make the decision on that matter.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask a question about the automobile insurance

legislation. On March 17, this year, the Premier and the Minister of Government

Services announced their revised plans for new auto insurance legislation.

During that announcement, the Premier and the minister - and I understand that

the minister has answered questions before, the Premier has answered questions

before, and they have an alternate minister as well who certainly knows the

details - the Premier and the minister announced a freeze on insurance rates

that was supposed to be effective immediately. It has been almost two months

since then, Mr. Speaker, since that announcement. We have still not seen the

legislation. We understand that it is due any day now. There has been no freeze

on insurance rates, as consumers have been telling everybody in the Province who

will listen, and the people of the Province continue to pay through the nose for

automobile insurance.

Mr. Speaker, the question is: Where is the freeze on insurance rates that was

announced and promised on March 17? When the government introduces the

legislation, which I understand we will get some time soon, has the government

ensured that the freeze that was announced and promised on March 17 will

actually be in the legislation and will be effective and retroactive to March

17?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Conservation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As the alternate minister, I am pleased to answer the question. The issue is

before Cabinet. We are bringing legislation to the House this session, Mr.

Speaker. We have made promises that this legislation will be brought before the

House. The legislation will be brought before the House this session, and that

legislation guarantees insurance freezes, as we have indicated, Mr. Speaker. We

made the announcement on March 17, that we will be bringing this legislation

forward, and this legislation will be brought forward in this session.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, unfortunately, it seems obvious that maybe the only one who

knows any of the answers to the insurance questions are the Premier himself. The

minister before did not know. This alternate minister now could not confirm that

the freeze was going to be retroactive to March 17, even though he said it was

discussed in the full Cabinet. All of them should know. Any one of the ministers

should be able to get up and answer the question. We are going to have the bill,

we understand, in a matter of a couple of days.

Mr. Speaker, meanwhile, on August 27 last year, before the election while in

Opposition, the Premier announced in his people proposal for automobile

insurance reform, a plan that put the consumer first. On March 17, what we saw

and what we saw introduced, in fact, was the Williams, Roebothan, McKay,

Marshall proposal, a plan that ignores the consumer and puts the legal community

first, Mr. Speaker, and I have a copy of it right here in my hand.

Mr. Speaker, the question is this. There has been a major change from the cap

in August before the election to a deductible, which is in this proposal from

Williams, Roebothan, McKay and Marshall.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the member now to get to his question, quickly.

MR. GRIMES: Yes, Mr. Speaker.

The question is: Has there been another change since then, or do we still

have the lawyers' proposal now coming forward in the legislation new week

instead of the people's proposal that would have actually seen some real

reductions in insurance premiums for the consumers? Which one is it?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Conservation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The details, as the Leader of the Opposition knows, we have outlined in a

news release, in a press conference on March 17. Those details will be put

forward when the legislation is brought to this House within the next week to

ten days. The Leader of the Opposition, and all members of the Opposition, will

have ample time to debate that legislation when the legislation is brought

forward to this House, Mr. Speaker. We had outlined what we intend to do on

March 17 when we made the announcement, and that legislation is forthcoming.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

A final supplementary, Mr. Speaker. I have read this proposal with great

interest and there are tremendous similarities, great similarities between the

Williams, Roebothan, McKay and Marshall brief to the government in 2001 and the

March 17 proposal released to the public, which will be in the legislation that

we will get next week. Meanwhile, there are many differences between what is in

the legislation that we will see next week and what was said before the

election.

Mr. Speaker, because there are such major changes, will the government commit

to having public opportunities for input in the new legislation because it is so

different than what they talked about before the election? More to the point, in

this Legislature, will the government agree to have a legislative committee of

this House actually given the time to hold some public sessions to have input

into the bill, which is so very similar to the Williams, Roebothan, McKay and

Marshall proposal and so very different from anything that they promised before

the election?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the member now to complete his question.

MR. GRIMES: Will we have the public opportunities in the Legislature and

in public forums?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Conservation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

To the Leader of the Opposition's question, this legislation is coming

before the House. Each of the members of the House speak on behalf of the public

in their districts. We announced this legislation on March 17. We have received

public input ourselves. We have consulted with the other Atlantic provinces, Mr.

Speaker, to see what was working and what was not working in their jurisdictions

and, as a result, we have put forward a proposal that will be debated before

this House. Each member in this House will have ample time, during that debate,

to consult with the people from their own districts. As far as the Leader of

Opposition's recommendation that we put together a committee of this House, I

will take that under advisement.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions are for the Minister of Government Services, or her alternate. I

am concerned about public safety. By now, everybody in the Province knows about

the safety problems being created on our highways because of this right-wing

government, but there are other serious public safety issues arising from these

government cuts to various inspectors in this Province.

Mr. Speaker, I want to know the status of food inspectors, water quality

inspectors and boiler inspectors. I ask the minister: Is he concerned that

public safety in this Province is being compromised because certain inspections,

such as those in elevators, are not being done in a timely manner?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Conservation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. OSBORNE: Mr. Speaker, public safety and the health and safety of

the people of this Province is always a top priority for government. It is a top

priority for our government and we will ensure that whatever measures are

necessary to ensure that continued health and safety for the people of this

Province are there, will be there.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

MR. SWEENEY: Well, I will tell you, Mr. Speaker, about the public safety

of the people of this Province. Even the elevators in this building have expired

certificates in them. That is how important the public safety is in this

Province. What other inspections are not being done, for instance, like on high

pressure industrial boilers?

I ask the minister: If the elevators in the main government building in this

Province are not being inspected, how can we have confidence that inspections in

other areas of the Province are being done and the public safety is not being

compromised?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Conservation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. OSBORNE: Mr. Speaker, we have just come from a one-month delay as

a result of the public service strike. We are in the process of catching up on

inspections. Public health and safety is a top priority for this Administration

and those inspections will be done. As fast as we can catch up with those

inspections, they will be conducted.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

MR. SWEENEY: It is interesting, Mr. Speaker, coming from a member of a

former Public Accounts Committee who said, and I remember quite well, that the

number of inspectors in this Province should be doubled. So, it is quite

interesting.

Mr. Speaker, I guess they are a little bit behind, but how much further will

they be behind next year when all of our inspectors are gone?

Mr. Speaker, on another topic, we recently had a problem in this Province

where people who had prepaid for funerals could have lost a lot of money, a very

serious issue. I ask the minister: Can he confirm that the position of his

minister's department responsible for monitoring the trust fund for prepaid

funerals has been cut? Minister, do you know who is going to do that work now?

Who is going to protect the interests of the people who have payed into these

prepaid funerals?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Conservation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is the duties here that are important. As long as the work is being done,

that is what is important. We will ensure, Mr. Speaker, that -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. T. OSBORNE: We will ensure that the work that is required of the

Department of Government Services is done, and that work will continue, Mr.

Speaker.

To the previous questions, as with public health and safety, we take that

issue very seriously. We take the issue that the member just raised very

seriously, and we will ensure that the work is completed.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for the Minister of Education.

Since my questions on the College of the North Atlantic the other day, it

appears that the number of layoffs, including the thirty-four resulting from the

$2 million shortfall, is, in fact, going to be higher than forty-five amongst

faculty and support staff of the College of the North Atlantic this year, with a

close down of thirteen programs over eight campuses.

Mr. Speaker, will the minister confirm that is the fact, and will he not

agree that the effect of the close down of thirteen program, if history is any

guide, will be that his government's policies have effectively passed over

these thirteen programs to the private college system?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, the college, a number of days ago, in the

issuance of a press release, indicated that there were thirty-five positions

that would be lost as a result of a review; a review which is done - and this is

being acknowledged by the college - on an annual basis with a view to

determining what is in the students' interests in terms of those programs that

should continue. Yes, it is done throughout a variety of campuses throughout the

Province. It is done on an annual basis, and it was done once again this year.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Since it is follow-up day, I would like to ask the Minister of Transportation

and Works, and Aboriginal Affairs if he can explain why - since the Minister of

Finance could not yesterday - some thirty people are being laid off in the

maintenance department, when the Auditor General told us last December that

inspections are not being carried out of bridges, for example, and that, of the

ones that were done, forty-seven of them were found to be in unsafe condition.

Yet, the people who carry out these inspections have all been laid off

yesterday, Mr. Speaker, by this government.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works, and

Aboriginal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I think my colleague, the Minister of Finance and President of

Treasury Board, did a marvelous job yesterday in explaining the situation to the

member.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. RIDEOUT: I cannot help it, Mr. Speaker, if the hon. member does not

have the ability to absorb the answer. I cannot help that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. RIDEOUT: Let me say this, Mr. Speaker: It appears, from the hon.

member's question yesterday and his question again today, that the old saying

about a little knowledge being a dangerous thing is what is at play here,

because - bridge inspection, for example, he refers to - there is no cutback

anywhere in our Bridge Inspection Program. The first level -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, will you find something in Beauchesne to

handle the hon. gentleman?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. minister to finish his answer. You have about ten seconds

left.

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, there are three levels of bridge inspection in

this Province. The first level is the maintenance supervisors. All of those have

been declared redundant but have been replaced. The second level is at the

regional departmental level in the regions of the Province. There are no layoffs

there. The third level is the Chief Bridge Engineer and his staff, Mr. Speaker,

at headquarters, and there are no layoffs there. So, Mr. Speaker, there is no

basis at all to the question posed by the hon. gentleman.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

If the Minister of Transportation and Works, and Aboriginal Affairs thinks

that the minister did a great job yesterday, he obviously got that information

from the minister. He did not read Hansard.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HARRIS: Mr. Speaker, if this government is saying that they have not

laid anybody off, we have the same level of bridge inspection as before, he

should reread what the Auditor General said, when he said that these bridges had

not been inspected for two years. The minister should be hiring on more people

to inspect bridges and roads, and not laying them off or declaring them

redundant or whatever else it is that he is doing that he has not told people.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works, and

Aboriginal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I saw my colleague, the Minister of Finance and President of

Treasury Board, last night on the late news, on NTV news, and he answered with

all kinds of clarity and articulation the questions that were posed to him by

the reporters outside. I am sure that he did the same thing here when the hon.

gentleman posed a question.

Mr. Speaker, I have some ability to respond to questions and so on, but I

take no responsibility for things that happened on the watch of the hon. ladies

and gentlemen opposite when they were government.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: That is when there were problems with the bridge inspection

program, Mr. Speaker. Two years ago, I believe, it was raised by the Auditor

General. That has been corrected and the program is now running as it should

have been run when they were the government, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, yesterday afternoon, after the House of Assembly closed, the

Minister for Government Services admitted to me that she was not aware of driver

examiner services being withdrawn in certain areas of the Province until the

issue was raised in the House of Assembly by the Member for Labrador West. Mr.

Speaker, I know that decision was finalized on March 30 th , according

to information provided by the Executive Council of government under an FOI

request.

Mr. Speaker, I understand that the minister has now agreed to reinstate

driver trainer services to the Labrador West area. I ask: Can she confirm,

today, that services will be reinstated to my district, Cartwright-L'Anse au

Clair, and if those services will be provided by Transportation and Works

employees, or if a driver trainer will be making regular scheduled visits into

the area?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Conservation..

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

To the Opposition member's question: That was a working document that was

obtained under Freedom of Information. That decision was not final and the

Minister of Government Services has said that the services for Southern Labrador

and Labrador West will not be affected, that they will remain, and there are no

layoffs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is also for the Minister of Government Services, or alternate.

Minister, given your reversal on the driver license inspection in Lab West,

will you consider a similar reversal for Burgeo and Port aux Basques? Also, is

the Minister prepared, in the interest of the safety of the 500,000-plus

residents of this Province and the 400,000-plus tourists that come to this

Province each year, to reverse your decision about the weigh scales at Port aux

Basques.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Conservation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I find that question very hypocritical, Mr. Speaker, because while that party

was in government, and he was a minister, the weigh scale out in Burgeo &

LaPoile district was not in service since this time last year, since last June,

almost a full year. For a cost of $8,000, that weigh scale could have been up

and running. That Administration, obviously, did not see it as a top priority.

They could not spend the $8,000 to get it up and running. The weigh scale that

will be at Pynn's Brook will cover 90 per cent of the traffic that comes from

Port aux Basques. There is a mobile weigh scale unit that will be in the area.

In fact, the weigh scale at Pynn's Brook will cover double the amount of

traffic that the weigh scale in Port aux Basques would have covered because it

covers traffic from other areas as well.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. LANGDON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is also for the Acting Minister of Government Services.

Yesterday, I saw a part of the document budgetary process that was there for

each member in each district, services that had been curtailed and services that

had been for the district for the year 2004-2005. It specifically stated that in

my area we would lose the examiners services to the Bay d'Espoir and to the

Harbour Breton region. It is no working document, that was real. In light of

what has happened in other areas, can I ask the minister: Will the services be

reinstated for the people in the Bay d'Espoir and Harbour Breton areas as

well?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Conservation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I presume the hon. member across is talking about driver examiners?

MR. LANGDON: Yes, that is right.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Okay.

Mr. Speaker, the decision that was made by government will now allow for

driver examiners in the Government Services centres, as well as Motor

Registration Divisions. The driver examiners who used to travel would oftentimes

travel as much as four hours a day out of a seven-hour working day which would

only give them three hours a day to do clerical work, driver examinations,

photos and other work. This was not practical.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. LANGDON: Man oh man. So The Western Star was right, was it? The

Western Star was right. Put everything in St. John's.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Bellevue.

MR. BARRETT: Mr. Speaker, today is a very sad day in Newfoundland and

Labrador when we get Cabinet ministers standing up in this House laughing and

joking about layoffs in the public service. I think it is utterly ridiculous.

Mr. Speaker, my question today is - the rural areas of this Province are

being kicked once again by this heartless right-wing Conservative government.

They have cut HRE offices. They have increased user fees, slashed student

hirings, laid off government employees and jeopardized public safety.

I want to ask the alternate Minister of Government Services today: Will he

tell us the status of the driver examination services in the communities of

Bonavista, Roddickton, Englee, Trepassey and Bell Island?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Conservation.

We only have about twenty seconds left.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

From what I understand, I believe his question is the same as the question

from the hon. member just before him. So the answer is the same, in the sake of

time.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The time for Question Period has expired.

The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: A point of order, Mr. Speaker. It may be a point of

clarification actually, for the alternate Minister of Government Services and

lands. Just so it is obvious to the people of the Province, he may be reading

from an information sheet but that does not necessarily mean that everything he

reads is factual and accurate.

He made a comment - and I find the use of the word from this crowd in the

government - of hypocrisy in response to a question that I asked about the

layoff of four people at the weigh scales in the Port aux Basques weigh scales.

I asked a question about safety and he answers it by first of all calling

everybody over here hypocrites, and secondly, suggesting that the weigh scales

were not working in Port aux Basques since last July and that in some way

reflected on the people here.

Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is, the weigh scale component of the

weigh scales at Port aux Basques were down since last July. That is a fact, but

that does not take away from the fact - again, this information is for the

minister herself because she ought to know this as well, because she did not

know the other day. The four persons who work at the weigh scales in Port aux

Basques just do not weigh vehicles. They are inspectors. Every one of the

80,000-plus vehicles that come into this Province get inspected at Port aux

Basques. Maybe the Minister of Environment does not mind about our highways

being littered with broken down trucks or bodies, but this crowd is not going to

take any responsibility for unsafe highways.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Speaking to the point of order, the hon. the Minister of

Environment and Conservation.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

When we took office and formed government just six or seven months ago, not

only did we inherit a broken weigh scale from that side, we also inherited a

blank bank account. Mr. Speaker, that is the reality.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. T. OSBORNE: So his question - if they thought it so important, Mr.

Speaker, to have that weigh scale operating, they could have had it operating in

the six months that they were there prior to the election.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I caution members that points of order should deal with some issue involving

parliamentary procedure and some rules which have not been properly applied. The

issue here seems to be a willingness and desire perhaps to extend Question

Period, or to respond to points raised during Question Period.

The Chair rules there is no point of order. At the same time, I caution

members again about using language that clearly in Beauchesne will be

found to be unparliamentary. In the context that was used today, it may or may

not be parliamentary because the Speaker had difficulty remembering the precise

context in which the words were used. The Speaker will take that part under

advisement.

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise on a point of order arising from a question and an answer in Question

Period. The alternate minister, the Minister of Environment and Conservation,

when answering a question about the change in the status of driver examination

for Labrador West, acknowledged that there has been a change. He referred to

this document: Budget Details and Statistics 2004-2005 for all Provincial

Electoral Districts, done by the Executive Council of the government on March

30, three days after the Budget was read in the Legislature.

Mr. Speaker, when he was explaining this section, Labrador West, and

explaining the fact that the statement that is here, this is very important:

"Driver examinations will no longer be provided at Labrador City. Persons

wishing to take driver exams must travel to a permanent office site, the closest

being Happy Valley-Goose Bay."

The question, Mr. Speaker - this is why it is important to have this

clarified - was: Has that definitely been changed because the minister, the real

minister, said she only became aware of it when the question was asked two days

ago? The alternate minister today confirmed: Yes, it has been changed and it

will now be provided in Labrador West. His rationale, Mr. Speaker, was this -

and this is the point of the point of order - yes, it was changed because this

was only a draft document. This was a work in progress. Mr. Speaker, is this a

work in progress or not? Because, even on the same page - it is critically

important, Mr. Speaker, to the point -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, it is a clear point of order from us being able

to perform our duties in this Legislature.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I caution the member about his language. The floor is to the Leader of the

Opposition. I ask him to get to his point of order rather quickly because we are

really extending the issues that were raised in Question Period.

I ask the member to get to his point very quickly.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The point is a very clear one. It needs to be ruled on. If the members of the

Legislature, particularly the Opposition members, cannot rely on documents

provided to it under the Freedom of Information Act from the government as being

factual and then come to the Legislature and have ministers describe them as

being works in progress, does that mean a similar statement with respect to

Labrador West, which says there will be increased funding for the Royal

Newfoundland Constabulary in Labrador, does that mean that is a work in

progress, or is that a definite commitment, or do we not know?

Mr. Speaker, the point is this: Is it a work in progress? Is it a draft

document, or does this reflect what it says, that it is actually Budget details

that we will then use to ask our questions in the Legislature? We need to know,

and the people of the Province need to know what the status of these particular

documents are?

MR. REID: What is wrong with you, afraid?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I caution the Member for Twillingate & Fogo, interference with the

Speaker is not acceptable in this House. I do believe that the member for - do

now wish to speak.

The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

If the members opposite do not understand that there is a point of order

here, this is a question of whether the House is being misled or not by a

Minister of the Crown about documents in relation to the Budget. This document

is produced - at least the copy that I have was sent to me by the Clerk of the

Executive Council, and identifies itself as information regarding a major impact

and major initiatives announced in the provincial Budget. It is dated March 30,

and it is called Budget Details and Statistics, Economic and Statistics Branch

of the Newfoundland and Labrador Statistics Agency broken down by district.

Now, the question is whether or not the minister is misleading the House by

calling this a work in progress, or whether or not the document that was issued

by the Executive Council is in fact an accurate document? If we are being told

one thing by the minister, who is telling this House, that whatever we say about

this document, that whatever we say that is in it is irrelevant because it is

only a work in progress, or is the minister's statement correct? That none of

this makes any difference, and what the Executive Council is telling members on

this side of the House is not accurate at all. That seems to me to be a very

important point about whether or not members can do their jobs without the

minister misleading this House about the nature of Cabinet documents.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Just very quickly, Mr. Speaker.

I am glad to see that the Leader of the Opposition listened to what you had

to say about a point of order being - normally dealing with an infraction. The

fact of the matter is, there is no point of order here, in my view.

I am entitled to my opinion, I say to the Member for Twillingate & Fogo,

and you are not going to stop me from exercising it or stating it in this House.

I can say that to the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: The fact of the matter is this, we have gone from now - so

I understand it. We have gone from - two days ago there was an issue raised by

the Member for Labrador West, a very serious issue on behalf of his constituents

in Labrador West. The Minister of Government Services stated yesterday that the

decision surrounding that is there would be no impact on service to his

district, and I would think, Mr. Speaker, that answer would have been sufficient

for everybody. Obviously, it is not.

I believe there is no point of order, Mr. Speaker, and I look forward to your

ruling on it.

MR. SPEAKER: Members are reminded that the Chair can only deal with

matters that, I guess, relate to parliamentary procedures and practices. The

fact that documents are shared between the Administration on the one hand and

the Opposition on the other, and that there are various

interpretations that

might be placed on those documents, is not a role that the Speaker can

adjudicate on. So, the Speaker wishes that the House Leaders would consult on

these matters and assure that information they share is reliable.

Therefore, we rule there is no point of order but there is a disagreement

among members as to the

interpretation of a document which has been shared

between the Administration and the Opposition on the other hand.

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: A point of privilege, Mr. Speaker.

I accept your ruling that, in terms of the duties and the functions we are

performing right here, and the rules that we follow in the House, that you have

ruled there has been no point of order breached.

Mr. Speaker, we are now down to the issue, then, of parliamentary privilege,

and the ability of ourselves, as elected parliamentarians, to be able to conduct

ourselves in a responsible fashion and to be able to do our jobs. Mr. Speaker, I

think that strikes to the whole heart of it.

Mr. Speaker, as you would know, I always hesitate, but this is the second

time, in this short session that we have had, that I have risen to a point of

privilege because I believe we have been subject to information from the

government that is described in one fashion and then, when dealt with in this

Legislature, is described in a different fashion. If that is going to be the

case, Mr. Speaker, how are we going to be able to perform our duties as

parliamentarians?

Again, just to use this as the example - and, by the way, there are dozens of

them in here - the only thing that I, personally, as a parliamentarian, or any

of us, or any of the members opposite, can depend upon when we make direct

requests of the government - and it was done under the law, under the Freedom of

Information Act, to ask: Could you please provide for us the information

relating to details of the Budget as they will play out and impact in the

forty-eight ridings? - the government, which had it available on March 30,

decided to exercise its right, under the law, and not provide it to us until May

7, so we could not ask these questions until this week because we did not have

the information.

Government members, the thirty-four on that side - thirty-three and yourself,

Mr. Speaker, if you are interested to look for Mount Pearl District, which you

may or may not have, as the member. I am sure you probably did, because you have

a long history of being a good parliamentarian and taking care of your

constituency - then they would have had access to this information for

thirty-seven days while we were waiting to get it so we could find out what is

in it that needed to and deserved to be questioned.

On one question - because what we have is this: What we have is a minister

who was asked a question two days ago, just a couple of days after we finally

got the information, who acknowledged that she did not know of the issue until

asked in the Legislature. Maybe others opposite did not know of it either, or it

was not high enough on the priority scale for them to register real concern.

When brought to the attention, then we looked for others and asked other

questions, and then excusing - in excusing a change in a decision that had been

taken and given to us by the chief civil servant for the whole of the Province

of Newfoundland and Labrador. That is who the Clerk of the Council is, Mr.

Speaker, for those who do not know. It is the number one civil servant for the

entire Government of Newfoundland and Labrador, the chief of all the deputy

ministers. Not a politician. That person put together for us a package of

information and described it to us and said: These are the impacts of the Budget

decision, the Budget that was read by the Minister of Finance. This is what it

means in your district. This is what will happen in your district as a result of

those decisions.

Now, because one of them was found to be embarrassing and one of them has

since been changed, rightfully so, and we support the change - it is a real

quality to recognize a mistake has been made and to make the adjustment. That is

a valued quality, rather than being stubborn and standing there and saying: Oh,

we made it and we do not care what happens; we are going to continue on.

Then the alternate minister today describes it to us, as elected

parliamentarians, as being: Oh, don't mind what you see in that book. Don't

mind that. That is only a work in progress. That is only a draft document. What

he is trying to suggest to us is: Don't be asking any more questions about

what is in here because this is not accurate.

Mr. Speaker, that strikes to the very heart and soul of our ability to

function in this Legislature and ask serious, detailed questions about the

Budget which we are going to be debating and questioning until the Legislature

closes, whether that is three weeks' time or a month's time.

Mr. Speaker, I believe that we have a minister today who should apologize to

the House, or else someone on behalf of the government has to stand up and say:

The Clerk of the Council made a fool of himself and should not send any of that

out to any of you. None of it means anything. Don't ask any questions about

it. Don't ask any questions about it because it is still a draft, it is still

a work in progress.

So, all of the commitments about health care, about education, about the

capital works that the minister made a statement on today, about funding for

policing, all of those things - all of those are in here as details.

Mr. Speaker, I do believe that we should have either the minister apologize

and say he misunderstood, and say: It was not a work in progress. It was a work

that was done, but we decided to change our minds because something came to our

attention that made better sense. We realize that we had made a mistake and we

are big enough to change it and do the right thing.

Now, that is what should be said. I do not know if the minister will say that

or not; but, if the minister is going to stand by his words today, that this is

a draft document, a work in progress, then our parliamentary privileges have

clearly been breached by someone acting on behalf of the government. Because

when a Freedom of Information request goes to the government, it goes through a

process but there is a political decision made as to whether or not you provide

the information right away or whether you go through the thirty-day procedure

under the act and give it to a group of officials to vet, but there is a

political decision made by the political elected government in the first

instance as to how you deal with the issue. That political decision led to a

result of all of us being provided with this documentation and it being

presented as being final Budget decisions, and here is how it will impact in the

forty-eight electoral districts of Newfoundland and Labrador.

I do not think I need to elaborate any further, Mr. Speaker. I do not think I

need to dwell on it any further, other than to say that I do believe that this

does strike at the heart of it and I do believe that, if considered by yourself,

it would constitute a bona fide breach of privilege.

Then again, as we have done in the past, we could dismiss it all if the

minister would only get up and apologize and say: It is not a draft document. It

is factual. My mistake. I should have just acknowledge that the minister changed

her mind about Labrador West and did the right thing, upon reflection, instead

of doing the wrong thing, which was the decision that was taken and written down

in black and white for the whole world to see, Mr. Speaker.

I will leave it there and I will leave it to yourself to decide the issue

with respect to a point of privilege.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker

What I want to say, first of all, is that what happened as a result of the

request that was made by, in this case, the Official Opposition, for this

information, was, in fact, the parliamentary procedure at work, Parliament at

work, members acting on behalf of their constituents.

This document was released by the Executive Council at the request of the

Official Opposition, under the legal process. The document was made available to

us, as well, and the Member for Labrador West, in reliance on the document,

said: There is a decision made that affects my constituents. He brought it to

the attention of the minister, who has now agreed to change the decision. The

driver examinations that had been decided to be removed from Labrador West - no

longer will that happen.

That was members doing their job. Now what we have is the minister, by his

statements, totally undoing the ability of members to rely on documents that

come from the Executive Council and, in fact, by the minister's statement,

challenging the veracity of this document - in its entirety, presumably - by

suggesting that a document prepared by the Executive Council, delivered to the

members of the Opposition in Parliament - intended, obviously, to be relied upon

- that the minister now comes to this House and says that this document has no

validity, that it is a work in progress, that it does not represent what the

government decisions were, even though that it what it says, and it comes from

the Clerk of the Executive Council.

We have a case of the Executive Mr. Speaker - the minister is a part of the

Executive - and the Executive is now telling the members of this House that the

documents produced by that Executive are invalid.

Mr. Speaker, if that is the official statement of the government then perhaps

it should be sent back and revised rather than the kind of way that the minister

got on in this House. I think that unless this matter is clarified by the

government, by the minister, or by someone on behalf of the Executive, then this

House is being misled by the Executive, to the detriment of their ability to

perform their functions as Members of the House of Assembly.

MR. SPEAKER: Further speakers to the point of privilege?

The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.

MR. REID: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I want to speak to that point of privilege as

well because what has occurred here in the last few days certainly has affected

our ability to perform our duties for our constituents. Not only that, Mr.

Speaker, what has happened is that some of our individual character has been

besmirched because of the activities of the group opposite. Let me give you an

example, Mr. Speaker.

My colleague, the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair, on reading this

document that was prepared by this government and sent to us under a Freedom of

Information yesterday, when she was told that the driver examiners would no

longer reside in her district, she did an interview with CBC Radio, that I

listened to yesterday afternoon at approximately 5:20. At the end of that

interview that she did, the reporter came on and said: We are now going to speak

to the Minister of Government Services and find out if what my colleague said

was actually true. That is what he said: Now we are going to speak to the

minister to find out if what the Member for Cartwright said was true.

As far as I am concerned, Mr. Speaker, if we are given information by the

government and we go out and speak to that piece of information, and that piece

of information is false, then it appears that the piece of information that was

given to us that is false was deliberately given to us to mislead us, to

besmirch our character in public.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, the point raised by the Leader of the

Opposition, I will endeavor to have an answer for him before this day is over

with. It is the first time in terms of - I wanted to see what he was referring

to. He has given me a copy of that and he has also given me the letter that was

sent. If he would allow me the opportunity, before this afternoon is out, I will

certainly deal with this issue and to the points that the Leader of the NDP has

made.

I want to say to the Member for Twillingate & Fogo, there is no

deliberate attempt on anyone's part to besmirch you or anybody else in this

House. You may take it -

MR. REID: How do I know that?

MR. E. BYRNE: Well, Sir, you asked the question: How do you know that? I

do not believe that you are out to besmirch me, as an hon. member, and I would

hope that you would think that the members opposite are not out to besmirch you.

If you believe that, there is not much I can do about that. I can only say to

you that there is no deliberate attempt on behalf of anybody, on the government,

to besmirch anybody's reputation. It almost bears not even talking about.

However, seeing that you put it on the record, I need to deal with it.

Mr. Speaker, I will endeavor to have a look at what has been provided to me

by the Leader of the Opposition and by the Leader of the NDP and we will have an

answer for them before this House closes this afternoon.

MR. SPEAKER: The issue of parliamentary privilege is indeed a very

serious matter, and this Speaker tends to treat all points raised on

parliamentary privilege as very serious issues that need to be addressed before

the House.

In this particular matter, the role of Speaker is to decide whether or not

there is a prima facie case for breach of privilege. The Speaker understands

that when there are disputes between members as to the allegation of facts, that

these matters do not, in themselves, necessarily constitute a breach of

parliamentary privilege. In other words, there may be different

interpretations;

however, the Speaker will take advice from the Officers of the House and will

have consultations.

I do thank the hon. Government House Leader, because he has undertaken to be

able to give a clarification, hopefully, before the day is out. The Speaker will

come back and make a ruling whether this issue constitutes a prima facie case,

hopefully, before the afternoon is out as well.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is a pleasure to have the opportunity to present the 2003 Annual Report

for Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro.

Thank you.

Notices of Motion

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the Official Opposition, we feel it is very timely,

given the federal election which is pending maybe within the next few days even,

I would like to submit this motion for consideration, maybe at a Private Members'

Day, and I will speak further after I read the motion in that regard.

WHEREAS there is an impending federal election and many federal-provincial

issues need attention;

WHEREAS this Province should be the principal beneficiary of offshore

resource revenue;

WHEREAS there is a need for improvements to the equalization program;

WHEREAS health and post-secondary funding from the federal government should

be increased;

WHEREAS there is a need for improvements in the EI system;

WHEREAS the economy of this Province is suffering because the federal

government is not willing to take custodial management over the stocks off our

coasts;

WHEREAS the joint management of the fishery is an important issue for the

future of this Province;

WHEREAS there is a role for the federal government to play in the development

of the Lower Churchill;

WHEREAS there should be an increased federal presence in the Province; and

WHEREAS there should be continued operation and marketing of 5 Wing Goose

Bay;

BE IT RESOLVED that this House of Assembly supports the establishment of an

all-party committee of this House to draft a document for presentation and

endorsement by all candidates in this Province, and the party leaders, in the

upcoming federal election.

Mr. Speaker, we feel this is crucial in terms of timing and, albeit, it is

being submitted as a private member's motion, we invite the government to

exercise its prerogative at any time to debate this motion, even as an urgent

issue, so that every person who has offered themselves for candidacy in this

upcoming election can be required, once this policy is drafted, to address all

of these issues and commit where they stand on them, irregardless of party

stripe.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: I seek direction. Is it the Chair's understanding that

this private member's motion will stand in the hon. member's name?

MR. PARSONS: Yes, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further Notices of Motion? Answers to Questions for which

Notice has been Given?

Petitions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased today to present a petition on behalf of several residents of my

district. The petition reads:

To the hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland, in Parliament

assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents of the Province of

Newfoundland and Labrador.

Ask for the House of Assembly to accept the following prayer:

We the undersigned citizens of St. Mary's Bay area hereby draw your

attention to the lack of a safe means of transportation in the Riverhead-St.

Mary's area.

WHEREAS it is the duty of government to provide proper transportation to all

residents of Newfoundland and Labrador, regardless of where they live.

THEREFORE your petitioners ask that government immediately put in place a

plan to address this current serious situation.

As in duty bound your petitioners will ever pray.

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased today to present this petition of between 1,100 and

1,200 names on behalf of people in the great District of Placentia & St.

Mary's. This petition has to do with the condition of the roads through the

district, Mr. Speaker, particularly in the St. Mary's Bay area, according to

this petition.

Yesterday, myself and the Minister of Transportation and Works had an

opportunity to travel throughout the district to see first-hand the conditions

of the roads and to make the minister fully aware of the situation that we have

to deal with in the district. We had a public meeting in the Town of Riverhead,

which encompassed many individuals, organizations and groups from St. Mary's

Bay. We travelled out through the Cape Shore area and into Placentia, and

finished up with a meeting with the Town Council in Placentia last night, mostly

dealing with the roads and the emergency situation that we are dealing with in

some cases, Mr. Speaker.

It is an opportunity, I guess, for the members of the community and the

members of the district to bring forward their concerns in relation to the

roads. The Minister of Transportation and Works accompanied me yesterday and

certainly gave a great opportunity for the people in the district to voice their

concerns and issues and to get some commitment that we would receive some

funding for roads this year, once everything is put in place under the budgetary

process. After spending the last decade, Mr. Speaker, not receiving the proper

funding that was needed for roads, and certainly after seeing the maintenance

budget of the former Department of Works, Services and Transportation cut, Mr.

Speaker, a lot of the roads in my district are certainly in need of assistance.

With the petition today, we just want to further the cause, I guess, in

getting the message across to the minister, and to the department, that we need

money for roads in the district, Mr. Speaker.

Certainly, after the meetings that we had yesterday, and certainly after the

opportunity that the minister had to travel out to the district to see it

first-hand, we look forward to, this year commencing, the first year of a

multi-year plan addressing the roads in the District of Placentia & St. Mary's,

and certainly with the commitment from the minister to do his utmost to address

that financially, we look forward to safe road conditions being brought to the

district, Mr. Speaker, over the next couple of years, and certainly to answer

the questions and the concerns the people have as they relate to the petition

here. While it all can't be done overnight and it can't be done in one year,

we certainly look forward to being able to do that over the next couple of

years, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased, today, to present this petition on behalf of the people of my

district, and look forward to the work that is not only needed but the work that

will be done in the next couple of years as it relates to the roads in my

district.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise, today, to present a petition on behalf of the people of my district

with regard to the Labrador Marine Services.

Mr. Speaker, I won't read the prayer of the petition. I read a prayer

yesterday and it is pretty much the same prayer. I will use the time to speak to

this important issue, because it affects so many people in Labrador, so many

people on the Northern Peninsula of the Island, and also on the West Coast of

Newfoundland.

I can tell you, right now, that I have consulted with a great deal of groups

and organizations that are playing an active leadership role in our communities,

that are not in support of the decision that this government made. Mr. Speaker,

I am going to list some of them for the record, because we have had letters of

support and people going to the media and expressing their discontent with

government's decision around marine services in Labrador from a number of

organizations.

All the people I am about to list right now are organizations and groups that

have a problem with the decision the government opposite made to base the Sir

Robert Bond out of the Community of Lewisporte. Mr. Speaker, they don't

agree with the additional expenditure that will accompany the move of that

vessel to Lewisporte, nor do they agree with the quality of service that they

will receive.

Mr. Speaker, we have had support for our position to base the ferry service

between Cartwright and Goose Bay from the Nortip Development Corporation, the

Straits and St. Barbe Chamber of Commerce, the St. Barbe Development

Association, the Nordic Economic Development Corporation, the Greater Corner

Brook Board of Trade, the Deer Lake Chamber of Commerce, and the Viking Trail

Tourism Association. In Labrador, we have had support from all municipalities in

my district, the combined councils of Labrador, the Town of Labrador West,

Labrador City - the Mayor of the Town of Labrador City was in the gallery today

actually, a very strong proponent of this particular service staying in Labrador

because he stands for what is right and proper for Labradorians - the Town of

Happy Valley-Goose Bay, the combined councils of Labrador, the Chambers of

Commerce in the West, in Central, in Southern and in the Straits, and also the

Zonal boards and all the regions of Labrador, and the North Coast Transportation

Committee.

Mr. Speaker, that is more that twenty groups and organizations in Western

Newfoundland, the Northern Peninsula and Labrador that believes the government

opposite has made the wrong decision, has created an unnecessary expenditure for

their own selves and is leaving the people in Labrador with a less than adequate

service.

Now, Mr. Speaker, I challenged the Minister for Fisheries and Aquaculture,

and Labrador Affairs in Estimates a few nights ago, to produce to me where they

have support from leadership in Labrador on the West Coast and in the Northern

Peninsula for the decision that they made. Mr. Speaker, he could not table it

because it does not exist. The only support to put the Sir Robert Bond

in Lewisporte came out of the ministers own district. It came out of him,

himself, as the acting minister at the table -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The member's time has expired.

MS JONES: May I have leave to clue up, Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: By leave?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Members will have noticed, in the last few minutes we have had another school

group that has joined us in the galleries. The Speaker would like to welcome a

number of students from St. Joseph's All-Grade School in Terrenceville, in the

District of Bellevue, twenty-two students with teachers: Darrell Sneyd and Paul

Watson; chaperone, Sheila Cox, and bus driver, Randy Vaslett. I am sure all

members would like to welcome these students from Terrenceville.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: On petitions, the hon. Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I stand today to present this petition:

WHEREAS parents and students in Carbonear do not want to have their school

close and unnecessarily bus students to Harbour Grace; and

WHEREAS existing school boards now cease to exist; and

WHEREAS a decision to close St. Mary's primary school in St. John's has

been reversed; and

WHEREAS a new school in Carbonear is necessary;

WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the

House of Assembly to reverse the decision of the Avalon West School Board to

close St. Joseph's school in Carbonear, reverse the decision to bus students

and commit funds to construct a new school in Carbonear.

Mr. Speaker, I stand again - I am not sure how many times I have done this

now, and I am going to keep doing it because the petitions keep coming in.

Mr. Speaker, with the new school boards now in place, appointed by the

government, I think it is only fair that the residents of Carbonear and the

students of Carbonear be given the same opportunity and the same advantage as

the parents and students of St. Mary's primary in St. John's have received.

Shortly after the decision was made to reverse the decision at St. Mary's,

the people in Carbonear - students and parents met, and their committee met.

They had a giant motorcade a couple of weeks ago. They have had meetings almost

every week, frustrated by no response and not getting any compromise from the

government. I ask the minister again today if he would listen to the parents and

students of Carbonear and take St. Joseph's and put in on hold - the decision

to close it - and give the new school board, the one for the Avalon, an

opportunity to reappraise the situation and just see if the move that was done

by the last school board is certainly appropriate for what the intent or action

plan of the new school board will be.

That is not too much to ask for, Mr. Speaker. When you look at a school that

has been there - it has been written up, the program at St. Joseph's in

Carbonear. The principal there has been recognized nationally as the principal

of the year. Her programs are very good. They are used as role models across

this country. The whole concept at St. Joseph's is totally different from a

lot of other schools in this Province, and taking all of this now and scraping

it to the point where school's situations in this Province is being

reevaluated. It seems totally unfair.

Again, last night the committee met and a number of parents showed up. They

have informed me today that they have a lawyer now in place who is going to look

at taking legal action against the appropriate body - whether it be the

government or whether it be against the school board - to stop this decision.

One of the reasons they are going to use, of course, is what I have spoken about

here for a number of times, is that it is simply not ready. We are going to take

students now and send them to St. Francis -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The member's time has expired.

Does the member have leave to conclude?

MR. SWEENEY: Just to conclude, Mr. Speaker.

MR. E. BYRNE: How many seconds are you looking for?

MR. SWEENEY: Just enough to -

MR. E. BYRNE: Go ahead.

MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been granted.

MR. SWEENEY: Mr. Speaker, I say to the minister, would he look at this

situation again, talk to the new school board and ask them to give the parents

another hearing?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Trinity-Bay de Verde.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS JOHNSON: Mr. Speaker, I am presenting this petition today on behalf of

the residents of New Harbour and surrounding areas.

The petition is titled: A petition concerning unsafe disposal of electrical

transformers containing PCBs. The petition reads, in part, as follows:

We, the undersigned residents of New Harbour and surrounding areas, draw the

attention of the House to the following: That New Harbour and Hopeall, Trinity

Bay residents were unduly exposed to the dangers of unsafe disposal of

electrical transformers containing PCBs. Under funding by the federal

government, the provincial Newfoundland and Labrador government was entrusted to

remove transformers containing PCBs from the Makinsons site to Come By Chance.

Regulations pertaining to the storage of PCB material requires anyone who

owns, controls, or possesses PCB material to maintain control over entry to the

storage site; store PCB materials in a specified container and in a specified

manner; make stored equipment and containers accessible for inspection; protect

stored equipment; have fire protection and emergency plans and cleanup

procedures; and provide the specified fire alarms, fire suppression systems,

fire extinguishers and cleanup materials.

In 1988, immediately after the PCB fire of 1988, the federal government

enacted strict PCB (inaudible) storage facilities. Destruction facilities were

to be sited in several regions of the country and facilities would not be

imposed on the communities. The New Harbour-Trinity Bay dump site is not

designated by the government as a PCB waste disposal facility;

THEREFORE your petitioners call upon government to protect our residents and

future generations by taking the following actions: 1. A Public Inquiry into the

disposal of PCB contaminated transformers at the New Harbour-Trinity Bay dump

site; 2. Seal off the affected area; 3. Commence through testing for

contamination; and 4. Inform residents of health risks they may be been exposed

to.

I will say, Mr. Speaker, that I have met on several occasions - I have

attended several public meetings in the New Harbour and surrounding areas. I

will say that I have spoken to the minister, and both the Minister of

Environment and Conservation and myself are both committed to working with the

newly formed committee there.

Thank you, very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Orders of the Day

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 3, To Move that the House Resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole

to Consider Certain Resolutions Relating to the Guaranteeing of Certain Loans

under The Local Authority Guarantee Act, 1957. (Bill 15)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that I do now leave the Chair for

the House to resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole on Bill 15.

Is it the pleasure of the House that I do now leave the Chair for the House

to resolve itself into Committee of the Whole on said bill, Bill 15?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against.

Motion carried.

On motion, that the House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole, Mr.

Speaker left the Chair.

Committee of the Whole

CHAIR (Fitzgerald): Order, please!

Continuation of the debate on Bill 15,

An Act To Amend The Local Authority

Guarantee Act, 1957.

The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I rise to speak on Bill 15 today, for a few minutes.

Mr. Chairman, I guess I am going to start by first of all talking a little

about some of the issues that transpired during Question Period with regard to

driver examiners. When I obtained this document from the Executive Council of

government, and I obtained it on May 7, I believe, when I obtained the document,

the document was dated, very specifically, March 30, 2004.

Mr. Chairman, I had a chance to look through it and I was quite surprised

when I did, because when I looked at the document it indicated to me quite

clearly that driver examinations would no longer be provided in my district.

I am going to read for the record exactly what it did say. It said that

driver examinations will no longer be provided at Forteau, Port Hope Simpson and

Cartwright - which were three of the locations where this service was being done

currently - and persons wishing to take driver exams must travel to a permanent

office site, the closest being in Flower's Cove

Mr. Chairman, I was rather surprised when I saw that because anyone who

understands the geographics of my particular district would certainly not make

such an expectation or ask people in the region to do such a thing, because it

clearly makes absolutely no sense whatsoever that they would be able to avail of

this service in any fashion that was acceptable at all, and I was surprised.

When I approached the minister yesterday, after the House of Assembly closed,

to indicate to her that I had received this and was not happy with it, she said

to me that she was not aware of this issue until it was raised in the House of

Assembly by the Member for Labrador West. I was very surprised at that, because

it was her particular department. She was the minister. The document came from

government, the Executive Council of government, so one would think that when

you ask for information under the Freedom of Information request that you would

indeed get accurate, updated, factual information, and that you would accept it

as being such. Mr. Chairman, I was rather surprised when the minister said that

she was not aware of it, that she had consulted with her deputy and that it was,

indeed, not a final decision and that she would take a look at it.

I am pleased today to learn by the acting minister, the Minister of

Environment in the House today, that my district will not see any erosion of

services with regard to driver examinations, and the fact that they will still

be accessible. What I have not yet found out, Mr. Chairman, is how that service

will be delivered, because there were two options for delivery in my particular

district. For those members who do not know - I know that the minister did not

know until I informed her yesterday - the airport operators in my district, who

are employees of Transportation and Works, were given the responsibility to

administer driver examinations, and they were trained to do so. They provided

that service right through the airport terminals in the respective communities

in which they were working and operating.

In addition to that, Mr. Chairman, we had a driver examiner who would come

into the area from the Northern Peninsula - maybe from the Flower's Cove

office, I am not entirely sure, but from the Northern Peninsula - two and three

times a year. They would come into the area, spend a few days, do the driver

exams and so on, especially in the Labrador Straits area. So, I am still not

clear as to what option of delivery will be used for this service in my

district: if it will be used by driver examiners coming in, or if it will be

done through airport operators who were originally trained to be able to handle

that responsibility. Maybe we will get those answers more clearly in the days to

come, but I have to say that the fact that service is being restored is good and

I would suggest in the future that government ensure that information that is

not factual and not correct, as they say, is not released to the Opposition or

to any other people, Mr. Chairman, because when you pick up a document, an

official document like this, and you look at it, you indeed look at it to be

factual, to be the truth, and certainly would carry forward on that front, as I

did yesterday. I am learning now that the minister was not aware of it and that

indeed the information was not correct.

Mr. Chairman, I also want to mention something else, because earlier today,

before I came into the House of Assembly, I did get a Ministerial Statement from

the Minister Responsible for the Status of Women. The statement was

congratulating the group in Labrador West on opening their new facility, their

new shelter. I know they had their official opening up there yesterday, Mr.

Chairman, because I know a lot of the people who attended the official opening

yesterday in Labrador West. I was not able to attend myself - I wish that I

could have - but I was not, and I was surprised when she did not make the

statement. Because they did have their opening yesterday, Mr. Chairman, I want

to acknowledge that this is a great shelter. It is a good shelter for women in

that area, and for children, who are escaping from family abuse and violence

within their home environment. It is a very safe haven for them.

Mr. Chairman, I want to congratulate the people in Labrador West, people like

Jackie Winters and Frances Fry and Janice Barrens-Gallant and many others I

could name, Patsy Ralph, Dianne Gear, Edwina Brenton, I believe it is, on the

committee, because they did do a lot of work on this project. I met with them a

number of times over the years. Mr. Chairman, I was very happy, very proud, to

be part of the Liberal government at the time when we did commit over $100,000

to this project to ensure that this family violence shelter was done in Labrador

West, and partnered with the federal government, my colleague, the MP for

Labrador, to ensure that this project did get fulfilled and did get done.

I also had the opportunity at that time to visit the old centre that was

there, so I know the keen lobby efforts that these people put in. I guess I

wonder why the minister did not proceed with her statement today. The centre, I

know, has been open since December, and they did have their official opening

yesterday, but after the actions that she took only a few days ago in this House

to close down twenty HRE offices in this Province, I can understand why she did

not want to get up and start touting about the great initiatives that other

women in this Province are doing in their respective areas to try and move

forward the women's agenda, the children's agenda, in trying to counteract

the poverty and other issues that these people are faced with on a regular

basis.

Mr. Chairman, I heard Joyce Hancock, the President of the Status of Women for

the Province, a very renowned woman who has championed the issues of the women's

movement for a lot of years in this Province. I remember back in the days when I

was attending college out in Stephenville and she was very active in those days

- it was quite some time ago now - as a local member of the Stephenville Status

of Women's Council. Mr. Chairman, I heard her on the news last night and I

will not forget the comments that she made when she was talking about the

minister's decision, the government's decision, to close twenty HRE offices

in this Province. She was quite clear in her comments when she said that poverty

has a face. Poverty does have face. She said that by closing these offices,

government does not have to look at the faces of poverty that come to their

door.

I tell you, this is a woman who knows what she is talking about. This is a

woman who had committed her life to working towards the cause for women who find

themselves in poverty. This is a woman who does not say things for the sake of

saying them. She says them because they are truthful, because they are

heartfelt, and because she means what she says.

Mr. Chairman, I will not forget her comments because I believe her comments

to be accurate, to be true. I believe that when you are far enough removed from

a situation, that you do not have to see it on a day-to-day basis, you do not

have to live in it, you do not have to live around it, then you soon forget the

impoverished conditions that other people in this Province are sometimes faced

with. This is from a woman who does not forget, Mr. Chairman. This is from a

woman who deals with these issues on a day-to-day basis. She sees the serious

impact that closing these twenty HRE offices will have on some of the lowest

paid, some of the poorest, families within our society.

CHAIR: Order, please!

I remind the hon. member that his time has lapsed.

MS JONES: May I have a few minutes just to clue up my comments, Mr.

Chairman?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

CHAIR: By leave.

MS JONES: Thank you.

I just wanted to indicate that today, and I am sure there will be other

opportunities for me to stand and speak to a number of issues in this House,

some that more directly pertain to my own district, Mr. Chairman. Today, I

certainly wanted to highlight the situation and the circumstance that has been

created for low-income families and families who are dependent upon the services

that are provided by government through Human Resources employment offices, and

how their situations, right now, will be even more challenging and they will

have even more barriers, Mr. Chairman, posed to them as they try and make their

way through this society that we live in.

Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

CHAIR: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I appreciate a few moments to speak regarding Bill 15, which of course deals

with municipalities in our Province, i.e. loan guarantees, specifically, for

those municipalities. I thought the Leader of the Opposition gave a very good

explanation yesterday as to exactly how these loan guarantees work. I am sure

there are a lot of people in the House who were not familiar with how they

worked, and how important they are, indeed, to municipalities.

Speaking of municipalities - because under Bill 15, which is a budget type

bill, of course, you can address your comments to anything of a budgetary type

concern - I would like to have a few comments regarding the issue of rural

development in these municipalities.

We have heard a lot of talk from this new Administration, pre-election,

during the election and since the election, throne speeches, blue books and

budgets, about what they intend to do for rural development. I say, in an unkind

yet truthful way, that we are not talking rural development from this

Administration, we are talking about rural devastation - rural devastation! -

and there is no question about it.

We already had the Premier talking about, the one shoe is dropped on the

budget, and I call it the one boot. We know exactly where he planted that, in

the backside of unionism in this Province. The second shoe, he said, was about

to drop. Well, no doubt, he has dropped the second boot this week. We heard

nothing but bad news and devastation for rural Newfoundland from this

Administration.

Just look at my own district of Burgeo & LaPoile. In the past two days,

we have the Government Service driver examiner operations in Burgeo gone, we

have HRE offices in Burgeo gone. Forget about the cost that everyone on the

South Coast of this Province now has to incur to go from Grey River, Franois,

Ramea, Burgeo, to get up to Stephenville, if they have to deal with an HRE

problem. These people are generally low-income people who probably are receiving

HRE assistance. What do we do now? We compound the problem. If you want to see a

face, if you want to talk to someone, you either try to use a computer, or a

mechanized machine, if you have one available to you, or somehow, some way, get

yourself to Stephenville at some cost to get that service provided to you. That

is what is happening in Burgeo alone, and you call this economic development for

rural Newfoundland; no doubt about it.

Port aux Basques, the weigh scales: 80,000-plus vehicles a year go through

Port aux Basques. Forget about the first 268 kilometres that you travel on the

highway from the Port aux Basques Ferry Terminal to Pynn's Brook. Forget about

that. That is not a safety issue. We will get them when they get to Pynn's

Brook. We will see then if they have any truck problems. We will see then if

they are overweight. We will see then if they have problems with how their

weight is packaged and chained down or nor chained down. We will see then how

their tires are. We will check it out after we let them roll 270 kilometres down

the highway, 25 per cent of the way. So, it is not only having an impact from

employment of the employees who got the boot yesterday; it is the 500,000-plus

people who live in this Province who got the boot when it comes to safety on the

TCH. It is the 400,000 visitors who come here each year through tourism, who got

the boot when it comes to safety, because this government is more anxious to cut

off its nose to spite its face, is trying to save a few measly dollars and

compromise the lives and safety of people.

Who is going to answer for the people and their families when we have

devastation on our highways? How many bodies does it take, or injuries does it

take, for this government to realize that they made a foolish decision? Yes, we

talk about rural development, no doubt about it.

For example, we even have a Premier - we have raised the issue here. The

Premier who has it, as one of his planks in his platform, that we are going to

be the salvation of rural Newfoundland. Must do it. Yet, he creates a new

Department of Business, makes himself the Minister of Business, and does not

have the intestinal fortitude to show up to answer questions at the very

committee of which his department is going to be examined. What is the problem,

Premier? Are you afraid to appear before the people of this Province in an

Estimates Committee and answer for your gem, your jewel, or is this another

blank promise that we have?

We have seen a lot of commitments made in the Blue Book and in the Throne

Speech. Have we seen any of the commitments fulfilled? We saw the fulfillment by

the creation of the Business Department, and the Premier had press releases

issued and everything out touting the creation of this new Business Department,

but where is the Premier when the time comes to sit down in this House and

explain to the people of this Province, through the Opposition, who have a

legitimate bona fi