Newfoundland and Labrador Hansard — Statements by Ministers — 22 March 2005 (45th General Assembly, 2nd Session, Vol. XLV No. 5)

2005-03-22

Newfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)

Newfoundland and Labrador Hansard — Statements by Ministers — 22 March 2005 (45th General Assembly, 2nd Session, Vol. XLV No. 5)

2005-03-22

Newfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)

March 22, 2005 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLV

No. 5

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!

Admit strangers.

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: This afternoon we have member statements as follows: the

hon. the Member for the District of Gander; the hon. the Member for the District

of Grand Falls-Buchans; the hon. the Member for District of Humber Valley; the

hon. the Member for the District of Grand Bank; and the hon. the Member for the

District of Trinity North.

The hon. the Member for the District of Gander.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. O'BRIEN: Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to stand before

the House to bring to your attention the accomplishments of a young Olympian

from the District of Gander, who has recently returned from the Olympic World

Games in Nagano, Japan.

Sarah Brown of Gander competed in the 4x400 Snowshoeing event and won gold.

She proudly represented Newfoundland and Labrador and Canada as a member of the

Gander Wing Special Olympics Club and Team Canada.

This Special Olympics World Games is not the first time that Sarah has found

herself with Olympic medals; just one year ago, she competed in the nationals

that were held in Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island, and came home with four

medals. Sarah plans to continue her training and return to the next World Games

to be held in China in 2007.

This incredible performance has made Sarah Brown Gander's first Olympic

medalist and places her in the elite of athletes that call Newfoundland and

Labrador their home.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the hon. members of the House to join me in congratulating

Sarah Brown of Gander for her incredible performance as our Province's

representative in the international competition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for District of Grand Falls-Buchans.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to acknowledge the accomplishments of four bright,

talented students from the College of the North Atlantic, Grand Falls-Windsor

Campus. They won the gold medal at the First Annual College of the North

Atlantic Marketing Case Study Competition in January, 2005.

Mr. Speaker, this team of second-year marketing students, consisting of Chris

Carter, Melanie Dawe, Lindsay Lindhal and Benjamin Hurdle, under the direction

of coach Suzanne Ivy, successfully defeated two other teams from campuses across

the Province. Their case study, Yoga for Life, asked the students to come up

with a marketing plan to increase the number of catalogues distributed to the

public and to attract new repeat customers.

They credit teamwork to their success, and this gold medal win will be an

asset to their portfolio in acquiring employment in the future.

Mr. Speaker, I would like all members of this hon. House to join me in

congratulating Chris, Lindsay, Benjamin, Melanie and Suzanne, and wish them all

the greatest success in their chosen profession.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Humber Valley.

MS GOUDIE: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to congratulate the communities of

Pollards Point, Hampden and Sop's Arm. On the weekend of March 12 - 13, they

hosted the first ever Main River Snowmobile Run. The run took place amid the

backdrop of the historic and picturesque Main River; the first river in this

Province to be designated to the Canadian Heritage River System, and home to

some of the country's finest sightseeing and recreational opportunities.

Mr. Speaker, this was the first time representatives from the communities of

White Bay South participated in such a large cause. The monies raised will go

towards non-profit organizations in the White Bay area. The event helped to

foster a strong sense of community in the people of White Bay South, as was

evident at the formal reception held afterwards in Pollards Point. Given the

tremendous success of this year's event, organizers are hoping to make the

Main River Snowmobile Run an annual event, and the Town of Hampden is already

looking forward to hosting next year's run.

I would like to congratulate all committee members and businesses that

contributed to making this such a great weekend for the people of White Bay

South. I would especially like to thank the Humber Winterland Snowmobile Club

for their many volunteer hours in preparing the well-groomed trails, and I look

forward to next year's event.

Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to express sincere thanks to the

Southern Antique Classic Car Club for contributing a geriatric chair to the

Burin Peninsula Health Care Centre in Burin.

The new geriatric chair makes it possible for the centre to take care of the

safety and comfort issues of their elderly patients. It also makes it easier for

the staff to care for their patients.

Over the past twelve years, the Classic Car Club has presented gifts totaling

approximately $60,000 to the Burin Peninsula Health Care Centre. This is just an

example of how the community pulls together to fund-raise for badly needed

health care equipment on the Burin Peninsula. The club has pledged to again

donate proceeds from this year's scheduled June 2005 car show.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join me in showing

appreciation to the members of the Southern Antique Classic Car Club for the

continued dedication and commitment to improving health care on the Burin

Peninsula.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Trinity North.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to congratulate the Kiwanis Club of Clarenville for once again

hosting the successful nineteenth annual Kiwanis Music Festival. I want to thank

them for providing the opportunity for young people in our entire region to

showcase their musical talents as well as their vocal talents.

Mr. Speaker, the very successful week-long event began on Saturday, March 12,

and concluded on Friday, March 18. This year's festival included people from

both the Clarenville area and the Burin and Bonavista Peninsula areas of the

Province. This year's participants are all to be commended for their great

performance, hard work and dedication to their particular interests. There were

over 1,700 different performances in this year's event, the largest in the

history of the nineteen that they have had. Mr. Speaker, these kinds of events

do not become a reality unless there is a large number of volunteers who are

truly dedicated to the event and to their community.

I want to, with your indulgence, just acknowledge some of this year's

winners. The Junior Rose Bowl Award goes to Victoria Best. The Senior Rose Bowl

goes to Travis Oldford. Some of the other individuals who received awards as

well were: Raylene Fulford, Kaitlin Strong, Megan Laite, Heidi Rice, Caroline

Matthews, Suyen Oldford and Jessica Laite.

Mr. Speaker, these are the ones who received some special awards, but I

believe they are all award winners by virtue of their participation in this very

successful event.

Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Statements by Ministers.

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and

Employment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to inform the House of a very

important program sponsored by Human Resources, Labour and Employment. The Boys

and Girls Clubs of Newfoundland and Labrador Girls Decide Initiative.

Girls Decide is sponsored by the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador and

the Boys and Girls Clubs of Canada. It offers young women the opportunity to

take a leadership role in developing events, activities and supports based on

the identified needs and concerns of female youth in the Province.

Seven young women, ages nineteen to thirty, have been hired through the Boys

and Girls Clubs of Newfoundland and Labrador to lead the program in eight clubs

across the Province. These young women have held focus groups to identify the

needs and types of programs females would like to see in their local Boys and

Girls Club.

I am pleased to report the Department of Human Resources, Labour and

Employment has provided the Girls Decide initiative with $5,000 in support of

this important program.

Members of Girls Decide Committees in each club will become the programmers

of sessions. They will generate meaningful skill development and leadership

experiences. This will keep them engaged and increase female participation and

success in community school and club life.

Mr. Speaker, the outcomes of this program are significant. Programs developed

and implemented by our female youth encourage personal, professional and social

development and increases self-esteem. This will ultimately have a long-term

effect in promoting leadership roles for women. It will provide true role models

for younger girls who may wish to become program leaders themselves.

Mr. Speaker, the Boys and Girls Clubs of Newfoundland and Labrador will be

presenting Girls Decide in June at the Atlantic Crime Prevention Conference in

Corner Brook. These presentations will be a great avenue for spreading Best

Practices and sharing experience to move girls programming forward.

Mr. Speaker, this government is committed to the young people of Newfoundland

and Labrador. The Girls Decide Program is one of the many youth initiatives this

government supports. It is a great example of how this government is ensuring

our financial resources are being used where they are needed most, and in turn

having a positive impact on community development and integration.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to thank the minister for a copy of her statement and to say

congratulations to the Boys and Girls Clubs of Newfoundland and Labrador on this

Girls Decide Initiative.

No doubt, as the minister has stated, this is a wonderful program with regard

to leadership roles in developing the female youth of our Province. It is good

to see that people have been hired and they are bringing this good message to

the various Boys and Girls Clubs throughout the Province.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate the Boys and Girls Clubs as well on

providing and going forward with this initiative in June to the Atlantic Crime

Prevention Conference, which will be held in Corner Brook.

Mr. Speaker, there is nothing I can say negatively about this statement today

by the minister. The only thing I will say, if the government yesterday, when

they brought down their Budget, rather than pay down some of the long-term debt

on The Rooms, for instance, just imagine what could be happening to those

various groups in this Province, rather than getting $5,000 or cutting funding

from the Kids Eat Smart program.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to thank the Minister Responsible for the Status of Women for an

advanced copy of her statement, which we support, to support the Girls Decide

Initiative of the Boys and Girls Club with a contribution of $5,000. It is

certainly very positive and we hope that the program works well. I know that

this will help to develop leadership skills for girls and young women and will

be an empowering experience.

Imagine, Mr. Speaker, how more empowered young women and girls in this

Province would feel if this government actually acknowledged the role of women

and, in fact, met their pay equity commitments made by a previous government to

the women of this Province in yesterday's Budget. They would feel much more

empowered because they would know that their government actually recognized that

women must be treated equally and not be discriminated against and will honour

agreements that were made on behalf of the women of this Province in the past.

So, with that, Mr. Speaker, I support the initiative, but I would be very

much more supportive if the government would meet the commitments of the

government on pay equity.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers.

The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works, and Aboriginal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise in this hon. House this afternoon to inform my colleagues that

government has awarded a contract for the annual refit and inspection of the MV

Sir Robert Bond .

Mr. Speaker, Budget 2005 allocated $2.97 million for refits to the MV Sir

Robert Bond and MV Northern Ranger , which are part of the Labrador

Marine Service.

The Bond 's annual refit and inspection is required by Transport

Canada. I am pleased to inform this House that Newdock of St. John's has been

awarded a contract valued at over $2 million for the annual refit of the MV

Sir Robert Bond .

This contract provides for improvements to the vessel through the addition of

more seating, additional overnight accommodations and the installation of an

make our vessels accessible to all individuals including those who may need

assistance with boarding a vessel in our fleet.

Last year, my department made alterations to the MV Northern Ranger ,

another vessel that is part of the Labrador Marine Service. My department

installed a new portable wheelchair lift/ ramp on the Ranger last summer.

Mr. Speaker, my department also made a number of positive changes to the

Labrador Marine Service during the past year. In December 2004, we released the

schedule for the MV Sir Robert Bond and other vessels that comprise

the Labrador Marine Service. I have been advised that this is the earliest a

schedule has ever been available since the service was taken over provincially.

The people of this Province depend upon a strong, quality infrastructure. Our

government recognizes that ferries and marine infrastructure are very important

to the people who use them everyday.

Mr. Speaker, to that end, another $4 million has been budgeted for annual and

mid-life vessel refits for ferries that serve the Island, representing a $1.6

million increase over the 2004-2005 Budget. The overall increase for the

Province is $3.1 million. These strategic investments will enable our government

to provide for a stable ferry service over the long term. As we are guiding the

Province toward economic and fiscal stability, we continue to provide for the

critical services that the public depend on.

Mr. Speaker, our government is committed to providing safe and reliable

vessels for the people of the Province and providing quality ferry service to

the people of Labrador. Just as stability and reliability were the hallmarks of

the 2004 shipping season, my department anticipates that the 2005 season will be

just as effective.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bellevue.

MR. BARRETT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to thank the minister for an advanced copy of his statement. Today, I

would like to go on record as congratulating Newdock on being awarded the tender

for this major refit on the Sir Robert Bond and the great service that

has been provided by this local business in St. John's, the Newdock.

The thing about this particular thing is that the Sir Robert Bond , and

all these vessels, are inspected each year by Transport Canada. There is a

schedule of work that needs to be done on all these vessels and what the

minister is doing today is just announcing what work needs to be done to make

sure these vessels are safe.

I would anticipate today that the minister will be rising in his place to

announce that the government has kept this promise and that they are reducing

the ferry rates on the ferries for Labrador and coastal communities in

Newfoundland and Labrador, where they increased it last year by 25 per cent. I

was hoping that the Premier would keep his promise, like Paul Martin, and

implement the promises in the Blue Book.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I appreciate the minister's advanced copy of his statement.

It is good news, Mr. Speaker, because what we need on that run is additional

overnight accommodations. They are at a premium, you have to book really early

in order to get one. Additional seating is required. I am glad to see that

elevator service will be provided, because that was one of the complaints that

I, as a passenger, heard on several occasions as I travelled that route from

Lewisporte to Cartwright and on to Goose Bay, is that there was no elevator, and

they couldn't get access, particularly, I say to the minister, to the dining

room area. It is important that people be able to do that. It will make the

route certainly more attractive, because it is a pretty popular route now, Mr.

Speaker.

I would like to call the minister's attention to one other very serious

matter -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The member's time has expired.

MR. COLLINS: By leave, Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: Does the member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: Yes.

MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been granted.

MR. COLLINS: A very serious matter, I say to the minister, is security on

the boat. I want to just inform the minister that last year when I travelled on

the boat there was an incident that made a lot of passengers very, very

uncomfortable. It required the RCMP to come on board, when the boat docked in

Cartwright, to remove a person. There was no security on the boat. I wouldn't

say it happens very often, things of that nature, but I think it is important

that the minister consider either providing a security person on the boat or at

least training the staff to deal with situations that cause other passengers to

become scared and fearful for their own personal safety.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Further Statements by Ministers? Oral Questions.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, yesterday's Budget was one, clearly, of missed opportunities

for Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. In addition to what wasn't in the

Budget, this government tried to trick the people of the Province into thinking

that there was no money available for any further initiatives, such as the

cancer clinic in Grand Falls-Windsor and the Mealy Mountains auditorium in Happy

Valley-Goose Bay. Mr. Speaker, the minister, in fact, manufactured a phony cash

deficit in a blatant attempt to lower the expectations of the people of the

Province.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister: Will he confirm that there was a cash

surplus of in excess of $100 million in this fiscal year, which ends in a few

days, before the government made last-minute decisions to pay off the mortgages

on some buildings?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am delighted for the question, because a year ago we indicated, when we

took office, this government, that we are not going to keep three sets of books.

That government kept a cash deficit, they kept a consolidated cash deficit

and an accrual deficit. What they did: They set up a consolidated cash where

they farmed out municipal borrowing as a separate entity, they farmed out

Education Investment Corporation as a separate entity, and they farmed out the

Heritage Corporation, The Rooms, as a separate entity, so they could hide the

cash component of the deficit.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, we said a year ago we were going to get rid of

that nonsense and have one set of books, and that is not to hide. It is in the

Budget Speech, open and up front. When we were asked in the media scrum

yesterday, we told them exactly like it is. We are keeping one set of books, I

say to the Leader of the Opposition, not three sets of books trying to fool the

people of this Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would suggest to the minister that he control himself. When he turns red,

as my neighbour and long-time friend, I worry about his health.

Mr. Speaker, let me ask the question again.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Let me ask the question again. Before the decisions were taken to pay off two

long-term mortgages, was there in fact a cash surplus of $103 million? Yes or

no?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, we said quite clearly that the cash component

of our deficit - there is only one deficit - there is a cash component to that

deficit. I understood he taught math in school, and $117 million and $14

million, the difference in that would be $103 million.

If he cannot add up simple math, we made it clear. We have indicated openly.

We said we were going to do it - we were going to get rid of it - and we got rid

of it. He does not like that we are paying off his debt that he brought onto

this Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Not only did we do that - that is in last year's

statement - we put new money into culture, new money into education, and $130

million in new money into health care. We spent a lot of new money in this

Province, and all you did was to stack the bills.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, they built up a stack of bills for future

generations, grandchildren and great-grandchildren. We are going to stop that

nonsense. We are going to get on with running this Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Maybe -

AN HON. MEMBER: Still no answer. Yes or no, boy. Yes or no.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SULLIVAN: He thought he found something big. He thought it was

something great.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Maybe the Minister of Finance might like to listen to his Leader, the

Premier, who basically this morning was on the Open Line program suggesting we

should have spent more money and we should have done some of the initiatives,

like the cancer clinic, while we were there. You cannot have it both ways, I

say.

Mr. Speaker, let me say this: We wanted the minister to confirm, which he now

has, clearly, without any language, that before they made some decisions which

we will debate here in the next couple of days, there was actually a surplus in

cash of $103 million. He has confirmed that and I thank him for the answer.

Now, Mr. Speaker, here is the point: Using some of the money to pay off debt

is a good initiative. We have agreed with that. We said there should be a

balanced approach. However, using every last penny of the $103 million in

surplus and neglecting the urgent needs of the people of the Province is another

matter.

I ask the minister: How does he justify to those cancer patients in Central

Newfoundland, the students in Labrador, the Alzheimer's patients, the students

at Leary's Brook and Laval in Placentia, why it is that their needs are

totally neglected when there was $103 million cash surplus? Instead, they are

paying off the long-term debt totally instead of a balanced approach.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, this year, in the Budget, there were significant investments

made into health care on the advise of medical professionals on what drugs we

should add to the formulary. We don't take advice from the Leader of the

Opposition on what drugs to be put or the formulary. We take it from medical

professionals who give us advice. We take advice on educational needs from

experts, not people who were in the position of government that put us in that

debt in the first place.

We spent tremendous money to boost education and health care and many of the

needs that he made reference to in the general areas here. Our Budget has been

one of the best budgets in addressing social concerns in a long time.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, we cannot fund every priority every year. We

deal with priorities and there are other priorities out there that we are going

to deal with. We are going to get to them and then he will have to find

something else to complain about because we are going to get to them. We are

going to deal with all the priorities in Newfoundland and Labrador. We will do

it within our fiscal means. We have gone a long way and a big start in it this

year.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I can say to the Minister of Finance that even those people who support

spending the entire $103 million cash surplus, which he has now confirmed for

the people of the Province and paying it on the debt, they are having

considerable difficulty understanding why the government would spend all of this

extra cash of $103 million on debt and then borrow an additional $14 million to

pay off debt by creating new debt.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister why, again, did he feel it was important to

use the total $103 million to pay off debt, plus to go out and borrow another

$14 million just to try to make people believe that we had a deficit this year

instead of a surplus of $103 million?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

If the Leader of the Opposition is making that statement he does not know how

the financial operations work in government.

When money collapses as a surplus it goes to our debt, that is automatic;

besides, we are not in the position where we are going to have to borrow. In

fact, we just received a cheque from the federal government for $378 million, a

ten-year interest free loan, because prior to the Budget 2004, the Minister of

than the four year average for equalization. So, if we got a loan - we have a

cash flow now that would necessitate borrowing for that. He should understand -

if he asked these questions, Mr. Speaker, I will explain them to him. We are not

in a position where we are going to borrow that. He should understand that. He

was Premier of this Province for two-and-a-half years.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I just heard the Minister of Finance say that his priority was

to pay off debt and let the people in the cancer clinic in Grand Falls-Windsor

throw up in a bucket. Now, that is your priority!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS THISTLE: Mr. Speaker, this government has chosen once again to abandon

the people of Central Newfoundland who are in need of a cancer clinic. This

government is aware of the situation and the pressing need. They had $70 million

extra in new health care funding from the federal government and they had an

improved financial position. Government had an opportunity to end the human

misery and the suffering.

My question is to the Premier: Why did you not fund the cancer clinic for the

people in Central Newfoundland, in Grand Falls-Windsor?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, as the member is quite aware, I indicated,

in interviews today, that myself and the minister had spoken about this issue,

myself and the member had spoken about this issue. The minister will be leaving

next week and going out to Grand Falls and will be looking at the cancer clinic,

will be delving into it. Just because it is not in this Budget does not mean it

will not be done. That is not the case.

You also have to look at all the other initiatives that were done for cancer

in the past Budget: extra money that was put into medicine, extra money that was

put into extra surgery for cancer, extra CAT scans, extra MRIs, extra

mammograms, some in Central Newfoundland, all over the Province. We put a lot a

money, and we care about cancer patients. It has affected my family personally.

I personally care about cancer. So, this matter is very much a priority for us

and the minister is going out next week and we will be looking at it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MR. REID: Priorities were in the Budget yesterday. Don't talk to me

about priorities. Talk is cheap. Actions are what count.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask members for their co-operation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. REID: All you do is talk. What are you doing today? Going out to talk

now again, are you, about it?

MR. SPEAKER: I ask the member if he could co-operate with the Chair.

The Member for Grand Falls-Buchans has the floor and I ask her to put her

question.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is quite clear that the Premier is a johnny-come-lately on this issue. He

knows the situation in Grand Falls-Windsor. There is a member sitting in the

backbenches from Windsor-Springdale. There is a Member for Lewisporte. There is

a Member for Baie Verte. They either never thought this was a priority or they

had zero influence in rendering a proper decision by this government. They had

zero influence or you just do not care.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the member if she could put her question now.

MS THISTLE: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Premier. He is the one who

calls the shots here, who makes the decisions.

Mr. Premier, I am going to ask you once more to think today about the people

who are receiving treatment without any privacy, without any comfort. They are

getting sick in the halls. How can you continue to let this loss of dignity

occur, and how can you get up the day after the Budget and instruct your

Minister of Health to go out and look at the situation? You ought to hang your

head in shame (inaudible).

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: If you will just allow me. I will never have to hang my

head in shame in this House of Assembly.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: As a matter of fact, we spent the past seventeen or

eighteen months trying to correct the mess, the financial disgrace, that you, as

a member of the Cabinet, left us in.

MS THISTLE: You have the money, do it!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes that Parliament is for the exchange of ideas, of

differences of opinions. While members may disagree strongly with each other, I

ask them for their co-operation in the exchange of ideas. Question Period is for

the exchange of ideas and for the expression of opinions.

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Premier to complete his answer.

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the people of the Province recognize that we are doing our best

with a very difficult situation. What we have done in a short period of fifteen

months, since the address was made to the people of the Province, is we have

turned this Province around.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: We acknowledge that you had us in a very, very deep

hole and we are starting to get out of it, but we have a long way to go yet. We

cannot be all things to all people at once. We just simply cannot do it, but you

know, we now have an opportunity to do that. We do have an opportunity, at some

point in time, to deliver the clinic in Grand Falls, and it is a matter of

priority for us.

MS THISTLE: (Inaudible).

PREMIER WILLIAMS: I would like the hon. member opposite -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: She is not fooling the people of Grand Falls. They know

she was a member of Cabinet. They know that this matter has been on the table

for years and years.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the Member for Grand Bank.

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, just as the people in Grand Falls-Windsor are in

shock today -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the Member for Grand Bank.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I thank members for their co-operation. I remind members that the clock is

continuing to tick. There is only thirty minutes for Question Period.

I recognize the Member for Grand Bank.

MS FOOTE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Just as the people in Grand Falls-Windsor are in shock today, the people on

the Burin Peninsula are in disbelief today at the failure of this government to

ensure they receive quality health care. There is no money to continue with the

new health care facility in Grand Bank, as promised by the Premier, no money for

dialysis services, and, despite repeated representation and fundraising, by the

way, in the area for a CT scanner for the regional health care centre in Burin,

it was totally ignored in yesterday's Budget.

I ask the Minister of Health: Why are the residents of the Burin Peninsula

being ignored and left without this most vital piece of diagnostic equipment?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I can assure the hon. member opposite that the residents of the Burin

Peninsula are not being ignored. It is incumbent upon government and the

appropriate health authorities and health boards to take all issues into account

to make the appropriate decisions and assessments, and then make the most

appropriate decisions in the interests of all Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.

I say to the hon. member, I acknowledge the fact that there has been

significant fundraising with respect to the CT scanner that she refers to, and I

would ask that this particular foundation continue its good work. We are

prepared to work with the foundation, as a government, and I would ask the

foundation to perhaps consider other options that may be appropriate for the

region, that may be appropriate for the residents of the Burin Peninsula, and

then, as a government and as a new health care authority, we can take into

account and assess other options as they come forward to us.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, that was the best case I ever saw of a minister

acknowledging that he is probably never going to put a CT scanner on the Burin

Peninsula.

While it is good to see updated CT scanners for St. John's, the government

cannot be excused for its failure to put a CT scanner in Burin. There are many

days when the roads are closed because of severe weather conditions, and lives

are at risk because patients cannot be diagnosed.

I ask the minister: Since you did not see fit to live up to the commitment of

the Liberal government to put the CT scanner in Burin, is it possible that one

of the CT scanners being replaced at the Health Sciences Centre and at St. Clare's

be relocated to Burin?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As the hon. member is aware, it is only a matter of days and the new health

care authorities in this Province will assume legal effect. In fact, it happens

on March 31.

I would say to the hon. member, and indeed the people of the Province,

particularly in this case the people of the Burin Peninsula, to allow the new

Eastern Regional Health Care Authority to take all issues into account, to do

the necessary and appropriate assessments, and again, Mr. Speaker, to make the

decisions that are in the best interests of all Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions are for the Minister of Transportation and Works.

Mr. Speaker, despite the fact that we had, yesterday, what The Telegram

calls a Budget Bonanza, will the Minister of Transportation and Works confirm

that he has plans to remove more than 100 permanent positions from the

provincial highway maintenance program, as a result of program reduction, and to

turn them into seasonal employees? Is that what the minister is planning for his

department as a result of what I call program reduction, what they call program

renewal?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works, and

Aboriginal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the hon. member for his question.

No, we do not have a plan to remove in excess of 100 permanent employees from

our department. What we have informed the union of, is that we have a plan to

convert some of our permanent employees into seasonal employees, and we are

going to -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. RIDEOUT: That is not winter maintenance, Mr. Speaker. Those people

are involved in summer maintenance.

Mr. Speaker, what we intend to do is to inform the union, when the details of

that are finalized, before we inform anybody else.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Mr. Speaker, how can this government and this minister

justify the downgrading of these positions, the removal of the security that

these people have and also the role that they play in maintaining our highways

which are in such desperate shape and in need of constant surveillance and

constant safety monitoring? How can he justify that, given the fact that this

government has an obligation to look after public health and safety, and has the

money to do it because of the Budget and financial position of the Province? How

can he justify doing that to these important workers?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works, and

Aboriginal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we are very cognizant of the tremendous work that our employees

do on behalf of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. What we also have to be

cognizant of, Mr. Speaker, is that our employees are gainfully employed and

having materials with which to do maintenance.

What we have proposed, Mr. Speaker - we proposed it last year, actually, and

one phase of it, the management side of it, was put in place last year. What we

have proposed - this is not a cut out of money issue. This is a redirection of

funds into more maintenance on our highways so that our highways are safer for

people to drive on. That is exactly what it is.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Mr. Speaker, my supplementary is to the Premier.

How does this kind of layoff square with the Premier's commitment not to

have any layoffs, and that anything that would happen would be through

attrition? There is no attrition here. This is clearly a layoff of permanent

employees, an offer of seasonal work. How does that square with the promise not

to lay off people in the public service?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works, and

Aboriginal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, when the details are finalized the hon. member

and everybody else in the Province will know, but you will see that some of

those positions will, in fact, be affected by attrition. There is nobody being

laid off permanently. There are positions being converted into seasonal

positions. If that will get through, then perhaps we will understand what we are

talking about here.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.

MR. JOYCE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for the Minister of Health and Community Services.

The Premier said, before and during the last provincial election, that the

long-term care facility will be built in my four-year mandate; you have my

personal commitment.

Israel Hann, whom I spoke to this morning, chairperson of the long-term care

facility, was outraged that money has been put aside for the design of the

facility. Mr. Hann was informed by the Premier's office staff, the Member for

Humber East staff, that the design work was complete and the construction would

start this spring. His own words, Mr. Speaker, his own words.

Will the minister stand in this House of Assembly and inform the residents of

the Corner Brook area, if the design work on this facility is complete, was it

ongoing with these funds?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I say to the hon. member that much of the design work is completed. We have

been updated that much of the work has been completed at the request of

government; however, there is still more reporting that government is expecting

to receive in short order. At that time, with respect to site location - because

that was the undertaking that this particular government gave a number of weeks

ago and, in fact, a couple of months ago - that particular announcement will be

made in relatively short order.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.

MR. JOYCE: Mr. Speaker, the former Minister of Health and Community

Services stated that it would take one-and-a-half to two years to complete the

design work, in this House. Will the minister inform the people of the Corner

Brook-Bay of Islands area the time frame his department has to have this work

completed, and when this long-term care facility will start its construction

phase as the Premier has committed before and during the election?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, we are talking about two different concepts

here. We are talking about site location and we are talking about design work,

the actual planning, the actual architectural design work.

With respect to site location, as I just indicated, Mr. Speaker, that work is

essentially close to completion and we will be able to make a position to the

public, in particular to the residents of the Corner Brook area, in short order.

With respect to part two of the announcement yesterday, with respect to $2.7

million towards a new long-term care facility in Corner Brook, dealing with the

actual detail design and architectural work, that too will be done in due

course, and when that is completed, Mr. Speaker, the appropriate announcement

will be made.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions are for the Minister of Education.

Mr. Speaker, in September of this coming year there will be 401 fewer

teachers in the classrooms around this Province than there were just last June.

It is obvious to everyone that this will mean larger classes, fewer courses, and

more students being taught through Distance Education. In addition to this, the

Minister of Finance announced yesterday that new courses in culture, music and

art will be introduced into the curriculum in the coming year.

Can the minister explain to the parents and the teachers, especially those in

rural areas of our Province, how our schools will be able to offer these new

courses, when basically we cannot offer the curriculum that we currently have,

with 401 fewer teachers than we had just a year ago?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: Certainly, Mr. Speaker, in response to the question from

the member opposite, we look at introducing new initiatives into the curriculum,

and in order to introduce new initiatives to the curriculum we have to make sure

that the resources are there. I assume that you refer to the cultural aspect

that we are introducing, and we are adding twenty-three more teachers, we are

making sure that the professional development is going to be there.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. HEDDERSON: Mr. Speaker, we are making sure that the resources, both

in the textbooks and whatever, are going to be there as well. This is a

strategy, Mr. Speaker, that we are looking at over three years.

I say to the member opposite, we are fully prepared to resource this

initiative. It is going to be a successful initiative, and we are going forward

on a three-year plan to make sure that the initiative is successful.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.

MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, I cannot believe what I just heard the minister

say. Talking about putting more resources, more teachers in the classrooms, when

this year they took out 256 teachers and in the coming year they are going to

take out 145. Mr. Speaker, I heard of voodoo economics. Obviously, the minister

never taught math, I will guarantee you that.

Mr. Speaker, my question. The government of which I was a

part invested more

than $40 million a year, in the last five years we were in office, for school

construction, maintenance and repair, yet the minister and his colleagues, when

they sat over right here, said: it was not enough, $40 million a year was not

enough. If this is the case, Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister how he intends to

repair our ailing and aging schools by spending only half that amount, half I

say to the minister, by spending only half what we spent in each of the five

years that we were in government?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: Mr. Speaker, the first thing I would say to the hon.

member is that you have to be careful how you spend your money, because if you

spend your money wisely you will take care of the needs. We have a plan in

place, over the next three to five years, to deal with the mess that has been

left to us from the members on the other side. We are prepared to move forward,

and we are going to move forward.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is time but for one brief question. I remind the member, I will cut the

clock at thirty seconds to allow time for response on the government side.

The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.

MR. JOYCE: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Tourism,

Culture and Recreation, the Minister Responsible for Labrador Affairs or his

Parliamentary Assistant.

Mr. Speaker, yesterday's Budget was a big disappointment for the people of

Labrador, particularly the children, as government failed to provide funding for

an auditorium in Happy Valley-Goose Bay. In both the Throne Speech and Budget

Speech the government talked about promoting culture. Yet, in Goose Bay the

local theatre groups are using abandoned hangars and the children have no

facilities. Today the new Minister for Labrador, who brags about his deep

Labrador roots, says he is going to get personally involved in the Mealy

Mountains auditorium file -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The member's allotted time has expired. I ask the government for a

response.

The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Our government is pleased of its commitment to investment in Labrador, and we

are proud of our investment in culture in this Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: It was only about three hours ago, Mr. Speaker, I spoke

with the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation. He is prepared to go and

sit down with the people involved there.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, if they would like to hear an answer -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SULLIVAN: The minister is prepared to work with the people to look at

alternatives in the area. We have been informed by people of Labrador and by

leaders in Labrador, that their top priority was a long-term care facility and

we fulfilled that commitment (inaudible).

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The time for Question Period has expired.

MR. E. BYRNE: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: A point of order by the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I adhere to your former rulings that we should not rise on a point of order

during Question Period, but initially, during Question Period today when the

Leader of the Opposition was up asking questions to the Minister of Finance, he

said two things, I believe, that were out of order. He talked about the Minister

of Finance manufacturing and putting forward phoney numbers.

Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is, he can say that government did it, he

can say that government manufactured it, but he cannot impute any motives on an

individual member in the House. I am just asking if the Leader of the Opposition

would recognize that longstanding parliamentary tradition, withdraw his remarks,

and we will move on without any ruling from yourself.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would gladly take the advice of the Government House Leader and have the

records show that my comments were that the government manufactured a phoney

deficit when they had a surplus of $103 million.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair will take the point of order under advisement, check the Hansard

record and then come back with a ruling.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.

Tabling of Documents.

Tabling of Documents

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Pursuant to

section 49(2) of the Financial Administration Act, I wish to

table the attached list of temporary loans raised under

section 48 of the act

since the last report to the House.

Further, pursuant to

section 55.(3) of the Financial Administration Act, I

wish to report that there have been no guaranteed loans paid out by the Province

since the last annual report to the House.

In addition, and pursuant to

section 55.1(2), I wish to report there has been

no guaranteed debt of any Crown corporation or agency assumed by the Province

since the last annual report to the House.

Pursuant to

section -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Finance.

MR. SULLIVAN: The Member for Bellevue is being very disruptive. I cannot

even hear myself speak.

Pursuant to

section 26.(5) of the Financial Administration Act, I am tabling

seven Orders-in-Council relating to funding pre-commitments for the 2005-2006 to

2007-2008 fiscal years.

MR. SPEAKER: Further tabling of documents?

Notices of Motion.

Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given.

Petitions.

Petitions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased today to present a petition on behalf of a group of pensioners

in the Channel-Port aux Basques area. Most of them were former employees of

Marine Atlantic.

The nature of the petition is the fact that they are asking the Premier to

keep a commitment that he made to them during the election of 2003 - this group

met with the Premier during the election - and it concerns a drug plan. There is

an existing drug plan, of course, in the Province, for prescription drugs for

seniors sixty-five years of age and over, registered with the Old Age Security

Division of Health and Welfare Canada, and who are receiving a Guaranteed Income

Supplement.

This group has been proposing for some time that, if not a plan, at least

discussions would be entered into by government to see if it is feasible to have

a plan whereby those who are over sixty-five but who are not receiving the

Guaranteed Income Supplement on a cost-shared basis could have a drug plan for

themselves. That just does not affect people in that area of Southwestern

Newfoundland; it indeed affects many people in this Province.

They have been promoting it for some time. The prior Administration had

agreed to look into it.

There is an existing system such as that in the Maritimes of Canada right

now, and the concern they have is not that they want a commitment that there be

such a plan implemented; they want to hold the Premier to his commitment that he

meet with them. He met with them in Port aux Basques during October, 2003. They

have written to him several times since. He committed that himself and the

Minister of Health would meet with them. They have written several times and

that meeting has not taken place.

We would like to stress here that the petition, at this point, is not about

saying there will or will not be a program. The petition, at this point, is

petitioning the Premier to at least give the meeting that he said he would give

back at that time so these people get an opportunity to voice their concerns.

This is the first step, hopefully, in what will be a longer process, but they

are quite willing, prepared and understanding that once the due diligence is

done on the proposal it may or may not be feasible.

They are prepared to live with whatever the rational decision and outcome of

those discussions are, but they at least ask this government to honour the

commitment and have the meetings, do the due diligence, to see if this program

is possible.

That is the only place they can go to move this forward. They are being very

reasonable about this. They have waited since October, 2003. They have written

several letters to request the meetings, and they have been put off. All they

are asking here is for the Premier and his Minister of Health to keep their

commitment, have the meeting, and do the due diligence on their proposal for a

drug prescription plan for those persons older than sixty-five but not receiving

the Guaranteed Income Supplement.

We would ask again, on behalf of those people, if the Premier and his

Minister of Health could keep that commitment and start that process, as was

indicated that he would do.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further petitions?

The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to present a petition on behalf of residents from Brigus,

Cupids, Marysvale, Port de Grave, Bay Roberts, Brians Cove and Upper Island

Cove, with regard to the issue that was brought forward about the plant

production quotas.

Mr. Speaker, it states very clearly - and we hear the minister referring to

the Dunne report, but I do not think it is in the Dunne report to be put forward

as we have been told. We know there is reasonable objection from harvesters and

plant workers. These petitioners are humbly calling upon the House of Assembly

to urge the government to only impose production quotas if it is agreed upon by

the FFAW and the processors as recommended by the Dunne report.

Mr. Speaker, the minister stood in his place here on Wednesday, March 16, and

held up three or four reports saying that this is the problem he had to deal

with. There were $2 million worth of reports that were, I guess, put forward by

the previous Administration - is the way he put it - and he said he had to deal

with it.

I say to the minister, Mr. Speaker, no doubt those reports that he referenced

were reports that were done by Mr. Les Dean as Chair, there was another one by

Mr. David Vardy, another one by Mr. David Jones, and the last one, I guess, by

Mr. Eric Dunne.

Mr. Speaker, I have to say to the minister, not once in any of those reports

was it stated that you should take this - probably they recommended it in

various ways, but not once did they say to any of them and say to this hon.

House or to any minister that you should take this and ram it down their

throats, because, Mr. Speaker, I stand very firm on that. I have listened to the

fishermen and plant workers throughout my district, in my neighbouring district

up in Harbour Main with the Minister of Education in attendance one day, and we

listened to the concerns of the people and they had major concerns. I believe

that the minister has to step back and really size up what is happening here. I

mean, no doubt about it, Mr. Speaker, there are always concerns in the fishery

but I believe that all parties, processors, harvesters and plant workers have to

sit down together and consult with all of the stakeholders to see what is being

done here.

Mr. Speaker, the harvesters really believe, and I agree with them, that their

rights are being tampered with. They cannot understand why they cannot come in

with their catches and be able to sell to whomever they wish to do so. I call

upon the minister to, on behalf of the plant workers and harvesters - because

the plant workers are really upset about this as well. I have to say, Mr.

Speaker, back two or three years ago - I only have a short period of time, so I

will close now because there is going to be lots of opportunities, Mr. Speaker,

but I will say this: I ask the minister to sit down, reconsider, get all of the

stakeholders at the table and see that this comes to a successful conclusion.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Further petitions?

The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

MS FOOTE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to present a petition on behalf of crab fishermen, actually in

my own district, the District of Grand Bank but as well from the District of

Burin-Placentia West.

They, as well, are calling on the government to hold off on the

recommendation that the minister has talked about enforcing with respect to crab

quotas. In fact, Mr. Speaker, I met with, along with my colleague from

Twillingate & Fogo, we had a meeting on Friday in Marystown where a

significant number of crab fishermen turned up to voice their objections to what

the minister is proposing but to, as well, voice their disappointment and their

outrage, I guess in some respects, that the minister has ignored their request.

In fact, ignored an offer that he made initially to the FFAW, when he said that

nothing would happen in this industry without the FFAW being consulted. We know,

of course, that that did not take place.

I guess to say that they feel betrayed, deceived and ignored by this minister

are some of the sentiments that were expressed at that meeting, but they also

felt the same way about their MHA, about the Member for Burin-Placentia West,

who, I understand, met with the group as well and agreed with their concerns and

offered to take them back to the minister. Of course, they are concerned now

because they have not heard anything from him since on that issue. In fact, they

asked in the House when my colleague put forward the resolution or a private

member's bill asking the minister to hold off on implementing his

recommendation; they asked what the Member for Burin-Placentia West had to say

about that and where he stood on the issue. All we can see, of course, was that

he obviously supported the government in terms of where the minister is going

with this recommendation.

It was sad to sit around and listen to those men, who are very independent,

proud men who work for a living in the fishery; many of them are young, working

with their fathers. What they are saying is, of course, if this goes through, if

the minister continues on this path and indeed goes ahead with what he is

proposing, that they will find themselves in a situation where they will have no

choice but to leave Newfoundland and Labrador and move west and look for work in

Alberta. You have one man saying he will have no choice and the other one saying

that he is not going, no matter what, because he believes in rural Newfoundland

and Labrador; that is where he wants to live, that is where he grew up.

Unfortunately, what we are seeing from this Minister of Fisheries - they feel,

and I feel, will be the end of rural Newfoundland and Labrador.

We all know how important the fishery is to the survival of our rural

communities and, unfortunately, what we will see is the continuation of the

out-migration that we have seen since this government came into office. When you

are talking in excess of 2,000 people leaving the Province since this government

took office, than I am afraid that is what is going to happen and we are going

to see the numbers increase - there will be people from Harbour Breton and

Fortune who, again - because they have ignored the recommendation by others, and

you have FPI not being held accountable by this government or by this minister.

So, on behalf of the proud fishermen in my district of Burin-Placentia West,

I present their petition.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further petitions.

The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I, too, have a petition here today from fish harvesters and -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I, too, have a petition from fish harvesters and plant workers in the Harbour

Main-Whitbourne District and the Placentia-St. Mary's District, and they as

well pertain to production quotas that the Minister of Fisheries is talking

about implementing during the current sitting of this House of Assembly.

Mr. Speaker, in the past week I have had calls from all over this Province. I

have also attended meetings in Port de Grave.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I am asking the members who are engaging in exchanges across the floor of the

House, either they will have to co-operate with the Speaker and refrain from

chatting back and forth or they should take their discussions outside the

Chamber itself.

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I say to the members opposite, that they are not listening to their

constituents and they don't want to listen to what their constituents are

asking me to present in the House of Assembly today. As I said, Mr. Speaker, in

the past week I have had calls from all over this Province, from harvesters and

plant workers, saying that what the minister is trying to implement in the House

of Assembly, force down the throats of the harvesters and the plant workers in

this Province, has to be stopped.

In the last week, I attended meetings on the Burin Peninsula, I attended a

meeting in my own district, and I attended a meeting in the Port de Grave

District. I have had calls from Trinity-Bay de Verde, I have had calls from the

Minister of Tourism's District, I have had calls from the Bonavista Peninsula,

and all over the Province. To a man and to a woman, what they are telling me is,

this production quota scheme that the minister has concocted has to stop. The

problem they have with it, Mr. Speaker, is that they feel they have been

disenfranchised, they haven't been given the opportunity to have a say on

this, that the minister is only listening to the wealthy processors in this

Province, and he won't sit down and discuss the matter with members of the

FFAW.

Mr. Speaker, they are concerned, they have grave concerns about this system.

They feel this system that is being dictated to them is going to limit

competition in the fishing industry, it is going to cause a cartel, it is going

to drive down the prices offered to crab fishermen and fisherwomen around this

Province, and at the end of the day fewer hours will be gained for employment in

fish plants around the Province. There is also a very grave concern among fish

plant workers around the Province that because the minister is talking about

making these production quotas transferable they will, indeed, Mr. Speaker, in a

very short period of time, find themselves without work and without a fish

plant.

Mr. Speaker, what they are really and truly disappointed in is that the

current Minister of Fisheries was one of them. He took great pride in standing

on this side of the House talking about how he was a fisherman, that he was a

member of the union, and, in fact, he boasted about working for the FFAW for ten

years. Then, all of the sudden, once he crosses the floor to the government side

and becomes Minister of Fisheries, they feel that he has betrayed them, Mr.

Speaker, and that he is ramming this down their throats for the benefit of

processors.

In closing, Mr. Speaker - because I will have an opportunity in the next few

days to talk about this again - all I am asking this House to do is what these

people say in their petition. I will just read it, it is a few short lines. What

they are saying is:

Whereupon the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the

House of Assembly to urge government to only impose production quotas if it is

agreed upon by the FFAW and the processors as recommended in the Dunne Report.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further Petitions? Orders of the day.

Orders of the Day

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Order 1, the hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board to

move that the House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole on Supply to

consider certain resolutions for the Granting of Interim Supply to Her Majesty.

(Bill 2)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that I do now leave the Chair for

the House to resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole on Bill 2, the Interim

Supply motion.

Is it the pleasure of the House that I do now leave the Chair for the House

to resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole on said bill?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

The motion is carried.

On motion, that the House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole, Mr.

Speaker left the Chair.

Committee of the Whole

CHAIR (Fitzgerald): Order, please!

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I am pleased to participate today in the debate on Interim Supply; I know we

started last week. Essentially, for those people who may be watching, Interim

Supply really is part of the Budget Debate. It is part of the money that

government - what we are asking for, essentially, is to - and every government

before us and every government after us, I suppose, will have to bring in this

sort of motion, because what it does, the fiscal year ends on March 31 and, with

it, government's authority to spend money to continue programs and services,

to pay our employees, also ends. That is why we bring a bill like Interim Supply

to the House of Assembly, where, in each department, we ask for a certain amount

of money so that, while the Budget Debate continues and before it gets passed,

government has the ability to continue to deliver the services that it delivers

to continue to pay for its employees.

Having said that, Mr. Chair, I would like to talk about a couple of

initiatives in yesterday's Budget - I will have a chance this afternoon to

debate a number of them - particularly as it pertains to the Department of

Natural Resources.

Yesterday, we launched some pretty significant agricultural initiatives in

the Province. Most people are aware that in 1985, for example, we imported close

to 80 per cent, I think, or 85 per cent, of the milk that we drank in this

Province, or bought in this Province, what was called reconstituted milk. In

other words, it was milk and butterfat that was sent down - I remember growing

up, for example, getting packages of Sunshine Dairy, where you would open up the

package, put it into your stainless steel container, add water, and that was the

milk we drank. That was if we were not in Harbour Grace, when we went up to a

fellow's house by the name of Dick Doran and watched his two daughters, who

were good friends of our family, scald the cream off it. We always went up the

track to get some fresh milk. That is when it was really enjoyable.

Twenty years ago, I guess in 1984-1985, the Milk Marketing Board was

established with one view in mind, and it was to grow the milk industry to a

point where it could become self-sufficient. It has accomplished that. The dairy

industry today employs about 1,000 people directly in its industry.

Yesterday, we put in place a very important fundamental piece of how that

industry - not only the dairy industry, but the agricultural industry - would

grow. Four years ago, under the stewardship of the Milk Marketing Board and in

concert with the Department of Agriculture at the time, we were given, from the

national quota system, access to an industrial milk quota. Essentially what that

means is, there is no difference in industrial milk and milk that we drink, with

the exception that industrial milk must be used, or the quota associated with

that must be used, for industrial purposes.

We see today, for example, on the West Coast, two dairy farmers combine their

operations, producing the type of Good Natured yogurt that is probably second to

none; cannot keep it on the shelves of our grocery stores.

Part and parcel of getting that industrial milk quota, which was 32.5 million

litres, I believe, or 31.5 million litres, and that may grow over time, part and

parcel of the reason why we have that, or why that was given to us, is because

Newfoundland and Labrador was the only Province in the country that was not part

of the national milk supply system. There was a problem with that from the

national perspective. The problem was this: If we were not part of it, or if we

continued not to be part of it, then certainly from the free trade point of view

and NAFTA regulations it opened up the rest of the country -

MR. HARRIS: (Inaudible) gave it to us.

MR. E. BYRNE: This is the point I am getting to. The Member for Signal

Hill-Quidi Vidi said it was the only reason they gave it to us, but it opened up

the rest of the country had somebody from the States come in and opened up

processing facilities, or somebody from Denmark or anywhere else. So, in order

to get us into the national supply system, a significant quota was offered to

the Province, and it is not to be understated how significant that is, 32

million or 31.5 million litres. That was about four years ago. That may grow. By

the time the clock - because there is an expiry date by which time we must use

it, and by the time that sort of expiry date hits it could be up, some are

predicting, as much as 41 million to 43 million litres of industrial quota.

Now, what does it really mean for the Province? It means, for the

agricultural sector, that it could double its size in less than seven years. It

means that not only could there be secondary processing facilities like we see

producing today in Stephenville, but it also means that there could be more

value added and more secondary processing facilities in various parts of the

Province. But, in order to accomplish that, in order to take advantage of that

emerging opportunity, one fundamental piece of the puzzle was missing, and that

was the access to an available land base; enough land that could accommodate the

forage opportunities that are needed to make the industry, and in particular

that industry, self-sustaining and self-sufficient so they could grow enough of

what they need in forage production, whether it be in corn - some of the

interesting research and development opportunities that are occurring in the

Province, particularly on corn silage and others, that adds to the type of

margins, significant margins required in terms of what the cow needs, which is

really the cost of production, bringing down the cost of production, increasing

our ability to become more self-sufficient. So, what we did in the Budget was

this: We made the single biggest investment in land development and land

purchase in Newfoundland and Labrador's history, since we became a Province.

Primarily, there has always been a Land Consolidation Program, but it has

existed on the Northeast Avalon. There are probably nine agricultural

development areas in the Province; they are known as ADAs. The only legislated

one was on the Northeast Avalon. The program that we announced yesterday really

collapses that regional program, and the program that we, through the Minister

of Finance and President of Treasury Board, in his announcement yesterday, what

we announced yesterday was a long-term strategy for the entire Province.

Now, many people have asked: Where will this land be purchased from? All

over, actually, down around Codroy Valley, Jeffrey's, Cormack, Humber Valley,

Wooddale, Whitbourne area, parts of the Northeast Avalon, and other areas as

well where there are developing forage opportunities, as there are in Labrador,

but I will speak to that in a few moments. So, part of the program deals with

this: the outright purchase of land. That is land from private landowners that

may be available for sale all over the Province. The second component of the

program deals with the actual land development and being able to partner with

federal government agencies and putting out the ability to clear land, which

some costs, depending upon the type of land that you get, runs anywhere between

$500 and $1,000 an acre.

Mr. Chair, it is important. It is an important program. It is important for

the industry. It has the ability, if done correctly over time, that the industry

itself could take advantage of all the emerging opportunities, private sector

opportunities.

One dairy producer said yesterday in the lobby, to the Premier of the

Province: We appreciate this. The Premier said: Well, we put it there for you.

It is important we understand, fundamentally, what it is there for. The dairy

producer responded this way, he said: Premier, I can tell you this honestly,

that for every dollar that you invest, we will invest $5. That is what this

program really is about because we were the only group - I guess government is

the only one that could develop that land base. Now, how much land do we need?

Approximately twenty thousand acres is required, 20,000 to 25,000 acres. Much of

that is on Crown land which will not cost us in terms of the purchase of it but

it will cost the program in terms of the clearing and development of it. But, of

that 20,000 to 25,000 acres, Mr. Chair - and you would know. You represent an

area yourself where there is a significant agricultural base. But of that 20,000

to 25,000 acres, there is about 7,000 acres in the Province right now today that

is ready to go into production, that are in private hands, and that means we

could purchase it today and put it into production tomorrow. There is no land

clearing responsibilities or no land clearing really associated with the

purchase of that land.

So, we are excited about the opportunity that program presents. Again, it is

a five-year program, $3.5 million a year, that will allow the department and the

division and the industry, because they will be part of the decision-making

process on this and very much involved into the management of the means by which

we attain that land, that - you know, this will provide, in our view, the

fundamental building blocks that have been missing from the agricultural

industry in Newfoundland and Labrador.

On top of that, Mr. Chair, we have agreed to, yet again, commit to the

Agricultural Policy Framework Agreement. This year we will spend about $10.1

million on support for agricultural initiatives, environmental stewardship, land

planning, land-base management and any other programs that support and enhance

agricultural initiatives, whether it be in root crop production, whether it be

in dairy, whether it be in broilers or chicken and eggs, whether it be in

horticulture and a variety of everything else that supports and maintains an

emerging industry in Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Chair, we look forward to the next five years, specifically with this

program. Many people may ask: Well, how will this be managed? How will the

process of decisions occur as we move forward? Who will decide, for example, on

what land will be purchased where? I think we need to understand, fundamentally,

that the principle associated with this is trying to get the best value for the

dollars that we are going to spend. In other words, trying to get as much land

as we can for the money that we have until we meet our objectives.

Wherever you go in this Province there are so many competing land value sets.

There is a notion - and it is true - that we live on an Island that has a

significant land base. While that is true, not all of it or much of it is truly

available. When you take off the charter leases owned by Abibiti -

CHAIR: Order, please!

I remind the hon. member that his time has lapsed.

MR. E. BYRNE: By leave?

CHAIR: Does the hon. member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

CHAIR: By leave.

MR. E. BYRNE: When you take off the wilderness reserve areas, the charter

leases owned by Abibiti in Corner Brook, areas that are set aside for - whether

it be the Bay du Nord Wilderness Area, the Avalon Wilderness Area, other areas

that have been set aside; the values and impacts on mining, on forestry, the

amount of land base that is available, really, for this development is very

small.

If you look at the encroachment of suburban Newfoundland and Labrador, the

Humber Valley and the Humber Valley Resort, the competing value sets there of

trying to develop the economy on one hand and agriculture on the other.

Depending on where you live, Mr. Chair, and depending where the land is

available will determine the price. For example, and I can give you great

examples, an acre of ground on the Northeast Avalon is more expensive than an

acre of ground per say than it would be in Cormack, or in Musgravetown or in

Whitbourne or anywhere else for that matter. From our point of view, what is

important is that we leverage this money to get the land base that we require,

that we meet our objectives of that 20,000 to 25,000 acres so that we can put

that into production.

The other principle that needs to be well understood, Mr. Chair, is this:

that this is agriculture. Any land that we purchase through this program is land

that will go into production and will be set aside in perpetuity for

agricultural purposes, so that if we have a block of land, for example, that is

400 acres or 200 acres, or 1,000 acres, if a producer or someone within the

business or within agriculture gets a lease on that ground then it is a lease

only, and in fifteen years or twenty years from now, for example, if that

individual or group of individuals move out of the agricultural business then

that ground reverts to the Crown to be used yet again for agricultural purposes,

so it is really, really important to understand that.

Finally - and I appreciate members letting me operate with leave to conclude

my thoughts - I want to say a final point on this, on how this program will be

managed. There is a Land Consolidation Program in place right now within

government that involves officials from the Department of Natural Resources,

through the division of Agrifoods. It also involves the Province's realtor,

which is the Department of Transportation and Works, and an independent

chairperson who is appointed by government. We plan to expand that committee to

include industry representatives. They will meet on a regular and systematic

basis.

The department has the plan in place - I want to emphasis that - which we

will be announcing in due course, when we have done the final touches done on

it, on where we plan to access and purchase that land. So, we have a plan in

place. We have the dedicated program funds in place. We have the system in place

that will allow for impartiality in decision-making, which is critical and

important, that ensures that, where the land is available, that we access it,

that it is put into production, that it remains in agricultural hands, that

industry is involved in the decision-making, and we believe that over the next

five years we can have a successful land development and purchase program that

will benefit the industry, that will assist in doubling in its size, Mr.

Chairman, and we are proud of that initiative that we launched yesterday.

With that, I will sit down and let other members participate in the debate.

Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS THISTLE: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

We just finished Question Period, I guess, about half an hour or so ago. I

was asking some very serious questions of the Premier, and I did not realize it

at the time, because I was quite involved with the questions, but as I sat down

in my seat I noticed, and it became clear to me, that the cancer clinic is not a

priority of this government.

There were three members opposite - the Member for St. George's-Stephenville

East, the Minister of Human Resources and Employment; the Member for

Burin-Placentia West; and the Member for Humber Valley - and the three of these

Members of the House of Assembly thought that was quite funny. They had a great

laugh while I was asking the serious question to the Premier of our Province as

to why we did not have our cancer clinic in Grand Falls-Windsor.

Now, I do not see anything funny about that. I think that is quite serious.

It is no laughing matter; it is nothing to laugh about.

I want to begin my ten minutes here today, and the first thing I am going to

do is read a letter that was on my desk when I came into work this morning, and

it was from the Mayor of the Town of Grand Falls-Windsor. It was addressed to

Ray Hunter, the MHA for Windsor-Springdale.

CHAIR: Order, please!

I remind the hon. member that when she is referring to other members of the

House that she refer to them only by the district that they represent and not by

their names.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I apologize for that. I knew the difference, but I was just reading off the

correspondence. I do apologize for that.

It was addressed to the Member for Windsor-Springdale, and it went on and

said: We were greatly disappointed in yesterday's Budget. There were very few

references to projects for the Central part of our Province. Have we been

forgotten?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MS THISTLE: I said I had it today. It was on my desk when I got in this

morning.

AN HON. MEMBER: How did you get it?

MS THISTLE: It came in by fax.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MS THISTLE: He sent me a copy.

The Parliamentary Assistant to the Premier is even disputing what I am

reading. He does not want to hear any of the reasons why the cancer clinic has

not been approved.

MS FOOTE: He is representing the area, too, Anna.

MS THISTLE: He is representing somebody, but he is certainly not

representing the constituents of my area.

The correspondence goes on to say: The major project was ignored. I do not

have to remind you that I am referring to the cancer unit. Please stand up for

us. We need this unit. We are expecting you to fight for us now.

Did we hear anything from the Member for Windsor-Springdale on this cancer

clinic? I saw a lot of desk thumping during the Budget, by the Member for

Windsor-Springdale. He agreed with his government, that they had done the right

thing in not approving the cancer clinic for Grand Falls-Windsor.

You know, I cannot understand, and neither can the people around this

Province. It does not matter what political stripe you are; most people are

fair-minded. They will look at a situation and they will draw their own

conclusions: Has government done the right thing or the wrong thing on this

issue? I think, for fair-minded people around this Province, they will say that

government should have done the right thing on this matter.

I remember when the former board, the Central West Health Care Board, came to

me as their Member in the House of Assembly, and also the Member for Exploits,

and the Central members said: We recognize that there is a glaring need for

cancer treatment in Grand Falls-Windsor. We encompass a large area from Baie

Verte right to Lewisporte and the South Coast. We realize also that the facility

that we have is inadequate, and we are doing our best to provide a good service

but the time has come. We should improve these facilities for the people who use

them.

They thought first they could look at a space in the hospital, improve it,

make it larger and more comfortable. They searched for a space in the hospital

and they could not. They decided, through the board and so on, that they would

kill two birds with the one stone. We had been doing dialysis in Grand

Falls-Windsor for about three years. Actually, we are up to our limit now. We

cannot take any more new patients. We are just up to our maximum capacity. They

looked at the labs that were scattered around the hospital and they said: Why

don't we do this? Why don't we combine our labs all in one place, enlarge

our dialysis facilities, because we have an aging population. We encompass about

75,000 people in the catchment area for Grand Falls-Windsor. So, they came to

government and we recognized their need right away.

I can tell you, as the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans, there was no delay on

my part and there was no delay on the part of government. We recognized that

they needed this. They had a good presentation, too, with government, and we

accepted it. We were serious. We announced it, and we provided the funding, but

when this new government came into power they put the clamps on it. They took

down the sign and decided not to go ahead with cancer treatment facilities in

Grand Falls-Windsor.

We were always hopeful that, if the Province's financial position improved,

this government would have a change of heart and look at the bigger picture,

which is the needs of cancer patients in Grand Falls-Windsor, and they are

coming from all over Central.

I bet there is not one member in this House of Assembly today who can stand

and say that they have not had a brush with cancer in their immediate family or

their close friends or close associates. I don't think there are any of us who

could stand and make that statement. We all know that cancer affects each and

every one of us.

This government had a chance to correct that wrong. They have had a surplus

which they covered up. They decided to pay off The Rooms. Can you imagine! The

ribbon has not been cut to open the door to The Rooms, but they decided, in

their wisdom, they would like to pay off that mortgage before they even opened

up The Rooms.

There was also some money in education investment for the construction of

schools. All of these are long-term developments. They decided they would like

to wipe the slate clean and eliminate that. They are $103 million in surplus,

and this is what they decided to do. They decided to pay off their debt and let

the people in Grand Falls-Windsor throw up in a bucket. That is what it amounts

to.

I thought this Premier had a strong character and a lot of compassion for

people. I thought this Premier would show the essence of good leadership in this

serious issue. I really thought so. I remember when this Premier was in the

thick of the Atlantic Accord, and even though I am a member of the Opposition, I

phoned up to Open Line early in December and I gave him high praise for what he

was doing. I complimented him and I told Randy Simms and the listening public I

was 100 per cent behind the Premier. He did a fine job and we are glad that he

negotiated a successful Atlantic Accord. That is one of the reasons we are in

the good financial position we are in today.

We had more cash come through this Budget than we have ever seen. We would

have loved to, when we were the government, have this kind of money to deal

with. We didn't. We did have, when we were the government, concern for the

people, so much so that we doubled our health care budget and that put us in the

hole, as a government. We didn't have the money to address health care needs.

We did not have that health accord from Ottawa at the time. We were willing to

show a deficit on our books do that people wouldn't have to line up for

cardiac surgery. We were willing to show a deficit on our books so we could

provide dialysis in Grand Falls-Windsor. We were willing to expand that health

care budget. All parts of the Province benefitted from health care money, which

we did not have. We mortgaged our souls to look after people's health care

needs. Of course, we were criticized widely for that. If I compare that to my

own household, if I have one of my children who needs serious health care

attention, I can tell you, I will not pay off my mortgage. I will mortgage that

to the limit. I will do whatever I can to save the life of my child. We were

criticized for that, for spending money we did not have.

Now, our Premier of this Province is in a different position. He has money to

spend. He has $70 million from Ottawa for new health care spending. He has extra

money in equalization. He has extra money in the Atlantic Accord and he has

extra money for offshore oil revenues. There will be money flowing continuously

for the next nine to ten years, fifty years maybe.

CHAIR: Order, please!

I remind the hon. Member for Grand Falls-Buchans that her time has expired.

MS THISTLE: Mr. Chairman, can I have a couple of minutes, please, on this

important topic?

CHAIR: Does the member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: Just to clue up, Mr. Chairman.

CHAIR: By leave.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

What I am trying to leave with the Premier and the people of this Province,

the Premier calls the shots. He has the power to end this misery. He has the

power to stop this human suffering and give people back their dignity. Why is he

punishing the people in the cancer clinic receiving treatment in Grand

Falls-Windsor? I do not understand it. If there was a money issue, I would

understand it. If there was some other issue unknown to me I would understand

it, but I do not hear anybody from the government side standing up and saying

and speaking with any kind of compassion for those cancer patients and saying:

yes, we made a mistake. We can find the money, the money is there. Why would he

instruct his Minister of Health, after the Budget, to go to Grand Falls-Windsor

and look at the cancer clinic? I mean if they were doing their jobs, if the

Member for Windsor-Springdale was doing his job, if the Member for Lewisporte,

if the Member for Baie Verte was -

CHAIR: Order, please!

I say to the hon. Member for Grand Falls-Buchans that her leave has been

withdrawn.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

CHAIR: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to rise today and say a few words on the Budget and Interim Supply for

the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Chair, we brought down a Budget in this House of Assembly that, since I

have been here, in the twelve years that I have been here - I have not seen a

Budget that has been so positive as the Budget that we brought down in this

House of Assembly.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. J. BYRNE: It seems to me that the crowd on the other side are doing

their best to try and find some negativity within the Budget. The good news must

hurt those people on other side of the House of Assembly. I can say this with a

straight face, no problem at all, I say to the Member for Port de Grave;

definitely.

The money that we are putting into this Province into health care and

education - after the fifteen years of mismanagement by the crowd on the other

side of the House of Assembly, and they have the gall to get up and try to pick

apart a budget on this side that we brought forward; a positive budget. That

crowd never brought down anything close to it in the previous years.

I remember sitting on that side of the House of Assembly in Opposition when

the former, former, former Premier, Clyde Wells, brought down a Budget and we

saw 2,000 people go out the door, leading up to Christmas, in the fall just

before Christmas, 2000 layoffs. They try to make a big deal about us on this

side of the House cutting back -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

CHAIR: Order, please!

MR. J. BYRNE: The other side are getting very excited and getting very

exercised when the truth comes out. They do not want to hear the truth, Mr.

Chair.

This government, on this side of the House of Assembly, brought down a Budget

last year that some thought was difficult, but nothing near what the former

Administration did when I was sitting on that side of the House of Assembly. As

I said, 2,000 people going out the door. Layoffs. Not jobs gone through

attrition, but layoffs. I saw a husband and wife get their notice the same day

from that crowd on that side of the House of Assembly when they were on this

side.

MR. REID: You did it last year.

MR. J. BYRNE: The former Minister of Education says we did it last year.

Absolutely not true! That is the problem with that side, they are so misleading,

Mr. Chair. What happened last year was we said we would cut back. Again, through

attrition, which we did. The number of jobs was nowhere near 2,000, nowhere

1,000, nowhere near 500 positions that went out the door. Not like on that side

of the house, Mr. Chair.

Anyway, I want to say a few words on the Budget. We saw the former speaker

just get up and make all kinds of wild accusations about people on this side of

the House of Assembly. So far from the truth. We have the Member for

Windsor-Springdale making the case for his constituents all the time. Not like

people on that side of the House, he is at it all the time; making (inaudible)

case.

The Premier was on his feet today, Mr. Chair, saying that the Minister of

Health was going to be in the area and talk to the people out there and have a

look.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

CHAIR: Order, please!

MR. J. BYRNE: What do they want, I say, on that side of the House of

Assembly? Do you want the world overnight? We had fifteen years of mismanagement

to deal with, and we are doing a good job. We saw the deficit cut back almost 50

per cent in one year. In one year we have done it, 50 per cent of the deficit

that crowd created in fifteen years.

Good news hurts. They are afraid of the good news. They are afraid of what we

might accomplish on this side of the House of Assembly, Mr. Chair. That is their

problem. We will continue on.

We have the Minister of Finance - I don't suppose there was ever a Minister

of Finance like him before in history, since we joined Confederation, with the

ability that this man has to bring the Budget down by 50 per cent; $400 million

in one year, Mr. Chair.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. J. BYRNE: How can they complain? They should be on their feet over

there applauding the government on this side of the House of Assembly. They

should be on their feet applauding; but no, any negativity they can find, or

create fearmongering.

We had the Leader of the Opposition on Open Line this morning talking about

the Municipal Financing Corporation, and how the municipalities, in the future,

will not be able to borrow money through the private banks. How idiotic is that,

Mr. Chair? When he knows full well, and the former Minister of Municipal and

Provincial Affairs knows, that bunch on that side of the House started to

decrease the amount of money borrowed by the municipalities through the

Municipal Financing Corporation three or four years ago. That side of the House,

when they were on this side, started that, Mr. Chair, and we had him on this

morning saying they could not borrow.

I will tell you some facts, Mr. Chair. Did you know that in the past three or

four years there have been 1,051 projects through the municipalities for capital

works for water and sewer, road building and what have you, 1,051? Do you how

many of those projects were financed through the Municipal Financing

Corporations and not the private banks, through the municipalities? Ten, less

than 1 per cent. We had the Leader of the Opposition this morning, on Open Line,

fearmongering, saying that the municipalities will not be able to access funding

through the private banks.

Mr. Chair, if that is not misleading I do not know what is. He was the

Premier of the Province when this was started. There you go, Mr. Chair, say one

thing, do another. Try to throw the fear out there and mislead the

municipalities, mislead the public, which he is very, very good at, misleading

the public.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Yes, I say to the Member for Exploits.

Mr. Chair, you know, it is all well and good for the members on the other

side to get up. When we were on that side of the House, we know - I know, being

the critic for various departments over the years - they have a job to do, but

there comes a point in time when they have to be up and give credit where credit

is due. They seem to have a problem with that. They seem to have a problem

giving credit where credit is due. They should be there, Mr. Chair, and give

credit to the Premier of the Province for going to Ottawa and bringing back $2

billion. Two billion dollars.

I remember last fall when the Leader of the Opposition was on the Open Line

shows, in the media, saying $1.4 billion, the Premier misjudged this, he does

not know how to negotiate; he should take the $1.4 billion and -

MR. E. BYRNE: He bungled it.

MR. J. BYRNE: He bungled it, and he should take the $1.4 billion.

Well, if the Premier of the Province bungled the Atlantic Accord, I hope he

bungles everything in the future.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. J. BYRNE: If you accept their line of thought, the way they think,

wouldn't you think?

MR. E. BYRNE: Yes.

MR. J. BYRNE: Mr. Chair, again, as I said, they should give credit where

credit is due, credit to the Premier for bringing back $2 billion. He is up

there now, and we are going to be looking at the Lower Churchill. We will be

negotiating that, and I do not think and I cannot think of anyone more capable

and better equipped to do it than the Premier has done, and he has shown it.

We had the Minister of Finance, when he was in Ottawa with the Premier by his

side, doing the number crunching, working well side by side with the Premier,

and they brought back $2 billion, which the people of this Province will see the

benefits from in the not-too-distant future. We are going to utilize that money,

and we saw a sample of it this time around in the Budget. We will strategically

utilize that $2 billion, and the people of the Province will see that.

For some reason or other, Mr. Chair, the members on the other side of the

House do not want to see it. As I said, I have been over there. I can

understand, to a certain extent, wanting to point out certain things or certain

negativity, I suppose, if they can find it, which they will do their best to

find. I have been on that side. I stood up over there and I complimented

ministers on this side of the House when the time was right, when we should do

it.

MS THISTLE: Why didn't you lobby the Premier to have the cancer clinic?

MR. J. BYRNE: The Member for Grand Falls is throwing out questions, why

didn't I do this, why didn't I do that? We are here on this side of the

House of Assembly, in government today, trying to correct the mistakes that you

guys made. We might be able to do a bit more if we did not have to pay the debt

that you guys created in fifteen years of mismanagement. We saw it. We saw you

giving out contracts left, right and centre. We saw a headline in the paper last

week, in Labrador, the ferry system up there, where you awarded the contract,

and half an hour after what did you do? Sent a letter out and tried to cancel

it, and you got sued, the government got sued, and we are going to be paying out

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Pardon?

AN HON. MEMBER: The people of the Province (inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: The people of the Province are going to have to pay it out,

pay it off, and we are going to be left holding the bag on that one. Just

another example, Mr. Chair, of what has gone on in the past. We are here trying

to change that, trying to correct that problem that was created by the previous

Administration.

AN HON. MEMBER: What about the Hull 100?

MR. J. BYRNE: Pardon?

AN HON. MEMBER: What about the Hull 100 ?

MR. J. BYRNE: Oh, don't get me going on the Hull 100 . We are

still at that. I remember being on that side of the House, again, when the Hull

100 was brought over. I think, from memory now, we are talking about eight

or nine years ago, and she is still not in the system. We are still trying to

get her in the system, and we paid $350,000.

I think what happened on the Hull 100 is that they went over to

Estonia and bought this vessel, and do you know what I think happened, Mr.

Chair? I think they paid for the wrong vessel. When they got the one brought

over here - people, at the time, tried to convince them to buy her sistership

for parts. I think what we ended up with was the sistership, that they tried to

talk us into buying for parts. That is what went on, and we have people on that

side of the House criticizing us on this side.

To tell you the truth, if I was on this side of the House for fifteen years

and I was put in the Opposition after fifteen years and created the mess that

crowd created, do you know what I would have done? I would have kept on going

out the door. I would not be able to rise on that side of the House and ask a

question with respect to health care, education, roads, ferries and the likes in

the Province. I do not understand where they come from sometimes.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) Hull 100 .

MR. J. BYRNE: I just talked about the Hull 100 , and others.

Anyway, Mr. Chair, there is going to be lots of time to talk about -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

CHAIR: Order, please!

I remind the hon. Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs that his time

has expired.

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I will certainly have lots of opportunities to get back again.

CHAIR: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.

MR. JOYCE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I want to rise to speak on the Budget, and I want to clarify a few things

that were just said.

I know, when the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans was up, she was denied leave

speaking about the cancer clinic in her area, which is sad, when she is speaking

on such a thing dear to her heart. The Member for Cape St. Francis got up and

said the Member for Windsor-Springdale is doing his job. He informed us all, he

let us all know, he is fighting for it.

The Premier was just outside the House of Assembly and told the media it is

the first he heard about it. So, which one is not telling the truth? Which one?

The Premier was just out to the media and said: The first I heard about the

Grand Falls cancer clinic was the last couple of days.

Is the member doing his job? Is the Member for Cape St. Francis hiding the

member? It is a shame. It is a shame, cutting off leave while speaking on such a

dear issue to the Member for Grand Falls-Windsor, to her heart. It is shame, I

say.

I say to the members opposite, look at the Premier during the election when

he stood in the foyer at the hospital in Grand Falls, when he stood up and said

it has to be done in Grand Falls. Look at CBC, look at the television, the first

time he heard of it. The Member for Windsor-Springdale should be out there with

him and tell him, either you did bring it to his attention or you never, and

stand with the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans and fight for the cancer clinic.

That is what you should do.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JOYCE: Mr. Chairman, I will get back to normal, because that is kind

of frustrating when you are cutting off on such a dear issue.

If you want to talk about contracts, I say to the Member for Cape St.

Francis, let's talk about the VON contract. Let's ask the Member for Topsail

why she is in the backbenches. Do you know why, Mr. Speaker? To give her credit

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

CHAIR: Order, please! Order, please!

The Chair is having great difficulty hearing the Member for Bay of Islands.

The Member for Bay of Islands is recognized. Every member can have an equal

opportunity to stand and be recognized for ten minutes. I ask now for people to

listen to the words of wisdom from the Member for Bay of Islands.

MR. JOYCE: Mr. Speaker, I always knew you were a smart fellow.

The Member for Topsail, ask her why she is in the backbenches. To give her

credit, she is no sheep, she stood up when the Premier wanted to give some kind

of money out there so he could get offered a golf tournament, so he didn't

have to bother anybody, didn't want protesters.

I ask the Minister of Finance and Treasury Board: Show me where that proposal

was put out to tender. Show me where the proposal was done. Present it. Present

it right here. It is just not done. The Premier is above everyone over there. No

one over there is allowed to ask him.

How about the $200,000 that was just used on an ad to make us all feel good?

No tender. The Premier will proudly admit: I did that. Why didn't the Minister

of Finance and President of Treasury Board stand up then and say, no, we are not

allowed to do that, we fought against that? Ask the former Auditor General, the

Member for Topsail: What would you say about that?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. JOYCE: You are right, it is disgraceful. It is disgraceful. We are

still going out with $200,000 and no tender: No need for proposals, I am the

Premier. If you want to talk about it - I know the sheep are not allowed to talk

about him, and that is fine, but the people on this side are allowed.

Mr. Speaker, let's talk about the Budget, let's talk about the Atlantic

Accord. The Premier said to the Prime Minister of Canada: A commitment should be

kept or he should resign. Let's look out on the West Coast, the long-term care

facility. The Premier said on at least five occasions publicly, that it will be

built in his four year mandate. He gave everybody the impression that the money

was going to be put in the Budget the day after he became Premier. He gave his

personal commitment that it would be built in four years. He gave his personal

commitment that it would be built.

Mr. Chair, now we find out today that there is money for the design. The

former Minister of Health and Community Services stood in this House and said it

was going to take a year-and-a-half to two years just to do the design - just

the design work. I see her nodding her head and that is what you said. It may

take shorter, it may take longer, but that is the estimated time, a

year-and-a-half to two years just to do the design work.

So, here we are now, a year-and-a-half into the mandate, seventeen months,

another two years, which is three-and-a-half years, and then it is going to

depend upon if funds are available at the time to go ahead and say something, if

we are going to put the money in there. So, the Premier is going to stand up to

the Prime Minister of Canada and say: If you don't keep your commitment, you

should resign. It is always nice to be out on the West Coast because you get a

different view. You get a different view.

MR. DENINE: (Inaudible).

MR. JOYCE: I say to the Member for Mount Pearl, go out and tell the

thirty-three residents who are waiting to get into the long-term care facility -

go out and laugh at them, I say to you. No quality - I challenge you to go out

there. I challenge you, the Member for Mount Pearl, I challenge you. The

thirty-three people out there now in acute care beds waiting to get in. If you

want to go laughing, you get out and laugh. Do not say that there is no quality

out there because there is quality out there. It is just that the Premier made a

commitment during the election and when the Premier made a commitment during the

election -

MR. DENINE: On a point of order, Mr. Chair.

CHAIR: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Mount Pearl, on a point of order.

MR. DENINE: The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands picked me out as

laughing at a statement that he made. It was totally incorrect. The member knows

exactly that I had no intention to direct my comments to what he was saying.

When he was saying that I was laughing at a serious point in this House, to me,

is insulting, and I think the member should apologize to me and to this House

because I was not even addressing that member on that issue.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

CHAIR: Order, please!

There is no point of order.

The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.

MR. JOYCE: I did not think there should be a point of order, Mr. Chair,

because if he wants to laugh at the residents out there, you go ahead and laugh

at them. Do not do it to me because I will not take it. I will not take it.

Mr. Chairman, the long-term care facility out there is a need that we just

got to have. If the Premier came out this year, in this year's Budget, and

said: Yes, we have the funding approved for the long-term care facility; I would

be the first one to stand up and say I am proud, but to have the people in

Western Newfoundland, Corner Brook and Bay of Islands to be led along once again

this year - I will just read what Israel Hann, the Chairman of the Committee

said. Israel Hann, Mr. Chairman, has been fighting for this facility for a

number of years. We were going to go with the three p's and we were

criticized. Oh, you can't get it built. It is going to cost too much money.

The Premier waltzed into the Committee and said: We will have it done in four

years. You have my personal commitment. Here is what Israel Hann said today, Mr.

Chairman: The Budget commitment to the proposed long-term care facility in

Corner Brook is woefully inadequate. You can't build a facility for 200 to 270

people in a year-and-a-half or so, said Mr. Hann.

Where is the Premier going to be, Danny Williams' mandate, at the end of

his term, to have the facility built. He said: Nobody knows what is going on,

other than that $2.7 million will be spent. I was expecting between $5 million

and $10 million to be paid - the groundwork and have water and sewer put in

place this year.

I spoke to Mr. Hann personally this morning when I seen his comments. He

informed me, and he said I can say it publicly, that he was informed by the

staff at the Premier's office, the staff at the Member for Humber East's

office, that the design work has been done, that the construction will start

this year. Now, we find out, we get it confirmed today from the Minister of

Health and Community Services, Mr. Chairman, that the design work is not done.

The only work that is done is site evaluation, to pick a site; which, by the

way, the Premier and the Minister of Justice promised to have done by the end of

February, which is still not done. The Minister of Health and Community Services

today, confirmed in this House, that the design work is not completed. All the

concerns of Mr. Hann and the long-term care facility group are being realized

today that it is going to take another year, year and-a-half to two years, to

have the design work done before any work, any tentative project can even go

out.

We are looking, Mr. Chairman, at least four to five years before the ground

is broken on a facility that the Premier committed to. He personally committed

to have it done in his four-year mandate and he knew at the time that it could

not be done. It was virtually impossible to be done unless he put the funds in

the day after the election, and he refused to do it, Mr. Chairman. The long-term

care facility group, as I was speaking to Mr. Hann today, feel that they were

let down. They feel that they were misled. They feel that they have no idea what

the government is doing with this facility and these funds.

I say, Mr. Chairman, these ten minutes have been very enlightening. I say to

the Member for Windsor-Springdale, you should get together with the Member for

Grand Falls-Buchans and let the Premier know about the condition out in Grand

Falls with the cancer clinic because he is telling the media that he does not

know.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

CHAIR: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Topsail.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS E. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I take great pleasure in rising and speaking in support of Bill 2, which is

Interim Supply for the government. The government, of course, needs Interim

Supply. It is about three months worth of expenditures that has to be approved

by the House of Assembly and it is going to be approved before the Budget is

approved. The government needs to continue operating for the next three months,

so that is what this bill is intended to do. It would be the intent of the House

to pass the Budget later on during this fiscal year.

While I am standing, Mr. Chairman, there are a couple of matters regarding

the Budget that I would like to speak to while I am on my feet. I would like to

talk specifically about some issues in the Department of Education and also some

items that were approved for the Department of Health.

In the area of education, I would like to commend the government and my

colleague, the Minister of Education, on the redeployment of additional teachers

for the Department of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS E. MARSHALL: As a former teacher, Mr. Chair, in the early 1970s I

taught Grade 4. My class size was usually around twenty students or twenty-one

students. Unfortunately, over the last decade the class sizes have grown

significantly. I think that any teacher now who would be faced with a class size

of twenty or twenty-one students would be absolutely thrilled. Unfortunately,

that is not the case, but I think that is the direction we should be going in

because it is very, very difficult for students to learn in a class size of

thirty-five or forty students. That is just not a reasonable class size. So, I

think that it should be our objective to get those class sizes down, especially

in the lower grades.

One of the other things I would like to mention is the additional funding

that is put into capital infrastructure for the schools. I think we have all

learned, both on this side of the House and on the other side of the House, that

deferred maintenance over the years has not really worked. Over the past number

of years, in order to save money, we deferred maintenance on our roads, on our

buildings, on our schools, on our ferries, in a number of areas, and now, at

this point in time, we are left with a lot of infrastructure that has been run

down. So, I would like to commend the minister on the additional funding that

has been put into capital infrastructure in the schools.

Another area I would like to compliment the minister on is the additional

money that is being put into physical education, in the amount of $1 million. I

have always found that an interesting area because I do not think we need

studies to tell us that the children of today are getting big. They say that

there are more obese children now in the school system than ever before. Of

course, along with that comes a lot of medical problems - diabetes, heart

disease, things of that nature - so it is very important that our children be

more physically active so that can live a better quality of life in the future

and not be faced with many health problems.

One thing we should acknowledge, we cannot leave it just to the government or

the Department of Education or the Department of Health to make sure that our

children are in good physical shape and that they are not obese. I think it is

the responsibility of not only the schools and the government, but it is also

the responsibility of the parents and of the community, that children are

physically fit. I think we should all acknowledge that, while this $1 million

will be a significant help in addressing the problem of obesity in our school

system, I think it is incumbent on all of us to put forward an effort to deal

with this problem.

The last thing I would like to mention in the area of the Department of

Education is the White Paper on Public Post-Secondary Education. That has been

ongoing now for the last several months and, as a mother of three children in

university, I am looking forward to seeing that paper once it is released.

In the area of health there are several areas there that I would like to

address, because these were areas that were of interest to me when I was in my

former role, so I would like to compliment the minister on several areas where

additional funding has been put in place.

The first area is the drug plan. Over the last couple of years, I have met

with a lot of people who are paying a lot of money for drugs, people who do not

meet the criteria and are entitled to funding under the drug plans. Compared to

other jurisdictions, we are recognized as being a poorer Province and, as a

result, our drug plan has not kept pace with the drug plans in other

jurisdictions, but we are making an effort. I was very, very pleased to see that

there is an additional $10 million put into the provincial drug plan for

twenty-five new drugs. While I will be the first to admit that we still have a

ways to go, I was very excited to see that some of the drugs and some of the

treatments that people did want covered will now be covered by the provincial

government.

The second area that I would like to talk about is public health. When I

became part of the government, one of the things that I was really surprised

with was the erosion of public health over the last number of years. Back in the

1980s, public health had a very high profile in the department and also withi

Document details

CollectionNewfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)
Citation2005-03-22
Typehansard
Volume / chapter2005-03-22
Languageen
Formathtm
SourcePROVINCIAL
Identifier7240d3eae826a8e790afe0d176840afed7b06cf3

Source file is stored in the law ingest library (htm).