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March 19, 2014

40th Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2014-Mar-19 (PDF)

L114 - Wed 19 Mar 2014 / Mer 19 mar 2014

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Wednesday 19 March 2014 Mercredi 19 mars 2014

ORDERS OF THE DAY

COMPLYING WITH INTERNATIONAL

TRADE OBLIGATIONS ACT, 2014 /

LOI DE 2014 DE CONFORMITÉ

AUX OBLIGATIONS COMMERCIALES

INTERNATIONALES

CORRECTION OF RECORD

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

FIRE DRILL

ORAL QUESTIONS

ONTARIO BUDGET

JOB CREATION

TAXATION

JOB CREATION

AGRICULTURAL COLLEGES

GO TRANSIT

STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT

SCHOOL EXTRACURRICULAR ACTIVITIES

NURSES

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

GO TRANSIT

PAN AM GAMES

FARM SAFETY

TRANSPORTATION PLANNING

ARTS AND CULTURAL FUNDING

REGIONAL CENTRES FOR

THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

CORRECTION OF RECORD

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS

ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION

LAURA HAMILTON

SICKLE CELL AND THALASSEMIA AWARENESS DAY

BUSINESS CLIMATE

NIAGARA PENINSULA

CONSERVATION AUTHORITY

TAMIL HERITAGE MONTH

AGRICULTURAL COLLEGES /

COLLÈGES AGRICOLES

TRAVEL INSURANCE

ELMIRA MAPLE SYRUP FESTIVAL

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

PENSION BENEFITS

AMENDMENT ACT, 2014 /

LOI DE 2014 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR LES RÉGIMES DE RETRAITE

SICKLE CELL AND THALASSEMIA

CARE ONTARIO ACT, 2014 /

LOI DE 2014 SUR TRAITEMENT

DES AFFECTIONS DRÉPANOCYTAIRES

ET DES THALASSÉMIES ONTARIO

BETTER BUSINESS

CLIMATE ACT, 2014 /

LOI DE 2014 VISANT

À INSTAURER UN CLIMAT

PLUS PROPICE AUX AFFAIRES

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

AND RESPONSES

LA FRANCOPHONIE

BUSINESS CLIMATE

DIETITIANS DAY

LA FRANCOPHONIE

BUSINESS CLIMATE

DIETITIANS DAY

BUSINESS CLIMATE

LA FRANCOPHONIE

DIETITIANS DAY

VISITEURS

PETITIONS

HYDRO RATES

OFF-ROAD VEHICLES

ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION

GASOLINE PRICES

ONTARIO DRUG BENEFIT PROGRAM

ONTARIO DRUG BENEFIT PROGRAM

PHYSIOTHERAPY SERVICES

TENANT PROTECTION

MINIMUM WAGE

AGRICULTURAL COLLEGES

CHARITABLE GAMING

ONTARIO COLLEGE OF TRADES

USE OF DIGITAL TECHNOLOGIES

ORDERS OF THE DAY

INFRASTRUCTURE FOR JOBS

AND PROSPERITY ACT, 2014 /

LOI DE 2014 SUR L’INFRASTRUCTURE

AU SERVICE DE L’EMPLOI

ET DE LA PROSPÉRITÉ

The House met at 0900.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Good morning. Please join me in prayer.

Prayers.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

COMPLYING WITH INTERNATIONAL

TRADE OBLIGATIONS ACT, 2014 /

LOI DE 2014 DE CONFORMITÉ

AUX OBLIGATIONS COMMERCIALES

INTERNATIONALES

Resuming the debate adjourned on March 5, 2014, on the motion for second reading of the following bill:

Bill 153,

An Act to amend the Electricity Act, 1998 with respect to a World Trade Organization decision / Projet de loi 153, Loi modifiant la Loi de 1998 sur l’électricité en ce qui concerne une décision de l’Organisation mondiale du commerce.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Further debate. The member for Nepean–Carleton, you have the floor.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: It is a pleasure to rise once again to conclude my hour leadoff on Bill 153, the government motion to bring Ontario into compliance from failing to adhere to World Trade Organization rules, thereby breaking international law—the first time in Canadian history that a province has done that to the federal government.

Speaker, I’ll take some of my time actually to discuss some of the implications of the Green Energy Act and why we won’t be supporting this legislation but why we will be encouraging the government and the third party to do exactly what we are doing, which is conclude debate after the three leadoffs in order for this bill to have speedy passage, in order to ensure that Canada is in compliance. That said, I want to make it very clear that the Ontario Progressive Conservative caucus, under the leadership of our leader, Tim Hudak, has opposed the Green Energy Act since its inception, and we will continue to do that.

That is why we cannot in good conscience support this modification to the Green Energy Act. In fact, we believe, as Progressive Conservatives, the best way to comply with international law is actually to end the Green Energy Act and the FIT program once and for all. We have been very vocal on this since 2009, and we have brought many of those concerns to the floor of this Legislative Assembly. If you look back to my speech a week ago in the chamber, near the same time, you’ll see that many of the same arguments I made then, I’ll make again today.

We have been very reserved—or very opposed, I should say, not even reserved—

Mr. Rick Bartolucci: Ha—reserved.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: I see my colleague from Sudbury having quite a giggle over there that I might be reserved at any given time in this assembly, Speaker.

Mr. Rick Bartolucci: You’re not reserved on anything.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: But I can assure you that our caucus has been steadfast in our opposition, and let me tell you why. A couple of weeks ago in question period, the Minister of Energy stood up and said that the Green Energy Act, the FIT program itself, for these wind turbine developments that are destroying rural Ontario, cost $20 billion. At the same moment that he said that, I checked the IESO and wanted to see what the given supply was for that $20-billion investment from this provincial government: 1.1% of our power supply at that given moment was from wind power. That means we have spent $20 billion for 1.1% of our power supply in the province.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Some days less.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: As my colleague from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke notes, it is sometimes less.

Now the government, in all its glory and intelligence, has decided that that is not enough. We’re going to have to invest more and build more of these wind turbine developments for, effectively, unreliable and unaffordable power. That is driving up the rates in this province. In fact, at the last rate increase by the OEB last November, when they decided to increase rates by 4%, they cited the fact that it was the cost of the Green Energy Act that people were paying for.

We also noticed, for many business owners across Ontario, that people are seeing something we call the black box, the global adjustment. That global adjustment is effectively where all the sins and all the mistakes by this Liberal government have been added and accumulated onto people’s bills, and it is hurting our employers across this province. It’s effectively hurting everybody. It has now become a pattern for this government just to hide everything under the rug in the energy bills of this province, but that is hurting the people we represent.

We have said very distinctly in this assembly that not only should that FIT program be ended and not only should those subsidies stop, but if any future communities want a wind turbine development—by now 80 municipalities in this province have said they are not willing hosts, but say there was—we have said very clearly, as Progressive Conservatives, that the only way they could move forward with a wind turbine development is if the municipality and those local decision-makers say so.

Presently—and we understand this, Speaker—this Liberal government will override any municipal decisions and put a wind turbine or solar development anywhere that it is not wanted. We have vast concerns with that, and that’s why we have said that not only will we end the FIT program, but we will also restore locally based decision-making.

We also have a concern—and I want to talk about some areas like the Oak Ridges moraine and other places like Amherst Island, which are, I think, environmentally sensitive areas that are subject to these wind turbines. We have been very clear, as Ontario Progressive Conservatives: On those environmentally sensitive lands, there should be no development whatsoever of these invasive wind turbines.

I want to be very clear to anyone who is watching from home when I say that places like Ostrander Point and Amherst Island and when I talk about the Oak Ridges moraine—the Ontario Progressive Conservative caucus opposes wind turbine developments on those environmentally sensitive lands. In fact, that is why we have been calling for a moratorium on any future wind turbine developments until the appropriate scientific, environmental and health effect studies have been completed.

Let’s recap where I am. We’re ending the FIT program, as Progressive Conservatives. We will restore locally based decision-making. We will hold a moratorium until health and environmental impacts are completed. We are the only party in this assembly, and we will be the only party in the next election, that will be standing up for those in rural Ontario who are opposed to these invasive wind turbines and the Green Energy Act. We have been doing this since 2009, and we will continue to do it. It is unaffordable.

You cannot continue to pay $20 billion for 1.1% of Ontario’s energy. You add that to the cost of the cancelled gas plants in Mississauga and Oakville, and that is $1.1 billion added to the $20 billion. You add the fact that this green energy program is causing us to have an oversupply. When that happens, we lose a lot more money because we have to subsidize other jurisdictions to take our power. That costs another billion dollars.

Our energy rates in this province and our bills across this province are becoming so high that seniors are telling us that their hydro bills are higher than their old age security cheque. We have businesses across Ontario telling us that they’re either going to have to shut down or move to the United States or Quebec or to Manitoba. That is the real impact of the Green Energy Act.

If that’s not bad enough, let me raise two other very significant points. The first is, the Auditor General here in the province of Ontario reviewed the Green Energy Act and the math behind what Mr. McGuinty, and now what Ms. Kathleen Wynne, have supported. The Auditor General of Ontario has said that for every job the Green Energy Act creates, we lose four. For a province that has lost 300,000 manufacturing jobs, we are losing hundreds of jobs by the week. That is significant.

That tells me that if you don’t believe Wind Concerns Ontario, if you don’t believe the Association of Power Producers of Ontario, if you don’t believe the Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario, at least believe the Auditor General of Ontario, who has no vested interest other than good governance, accountability and transparency of government.

So for a province that has been so linked with its economy and its energy policy, I can say to you, Speaker, with full confidence that the Green Energy Act is destroying jobs in our province, it is destroying rural Ontario and it is pitting neighbours and family members against one another.

If that is not bad enough, here is my next point: We are now here today debating a change to the Electricity Act of 1998, and we are doing so because this Green Energy Act, which subsidizes power to $20 billion for 1.1% of energy, which has stripped locally based decision-making from people, which has unknown health and environmental impacts, which is costing us jobs—for every one that is created, we’re losing four—the fifth problem with this, and this is the final nail in the Green Energy Act coffin: It has broken international law.

For the first time in Canadian history, a provincial policy has brought Canada into non-compliance at the World Trade Organization. The worst part of that is that this Liberal government knew since 2010, four years ago, that they were breaking the law.

I can only conclude that they were either incompetent or they were out to embarrass the federal government, which is not of their own political stripe. So here we are today. It is, according to my watch with the date on it, the 19th of March. They have known for four years that they were in non-compliance, and we have five days now to meet the deadline for compliance, March 24. We have that time to pass this through first reading, go through second reading and have third reading, but the general malaise by the Liberal government across the way is compromising our ability to comply.

So let me talk a little bit about what those repercussions will be. This is important for anybody listening at home. Breaking international law is a very big deal because there could be retaliation attached to that breaking of the law. What could we be retaliated with? Let me think. When Japan and the European Union decided to take us to court over this at the World Trade Organization, with China and the United States being third-party intervenors, this is what could happen: a trade war could be launched on Ontario for some of our products, such as our beef, our automobiles or it could be our Niagara wine. We could be into a full-fledged trade war.

Don’t take my word for it. Take the words of the international trade lawyers I’ve consulted with, like Cyndee Todgham Cherniak and Jon Johnson. These are very respected names in the international trade world, they are respected lawyers here in the city of Toronto, and they have counselled me, as well as other members of the Progressive Conservative caucus, on the pitfalls of not meeting compliance by March 24.

So as I stated before, I will be the only speaker on behalf of the Ontario Progressive Conservatives. We believe that the best way to deal with the compliance is to abolish the Green Energy Act in its entirety. However, recognizing that this Liberal government has put our nation in a very awkward position of almost starting an international trade war, we are going to allow the New Democrats and the Liberals to do what they do best, which is to vote together, to prop one another up and to enjoy the coalition they have had for the past number of years.

But I am going to maintain, as my Progressive Conservative colleagues have since the day this Green Energy Act was brought in, that it is not the right plan for the province of Ontario. The right plan for the province of Ontario is to rip up the Green Energy Act. It is to end the Green Energy Act. It is to stop the FIT program, to end the subsidies. It is to provide locally based decision-making. It is to have a moratorium until health and environmental impacts have been studied.

It is to focus our energy policy once again on economic policy and it is to ensure that we are not breaking any environmental, international or health laws. That is the desire of the Ontario Progressive Conservative caucus. When you have the highest industrial hydro rates in North America, you have to understand that the key and the centrepiece of their energy policy has failed, and that is this Green Energy Act.

Speaker, I’ve had the opportunity many times to address this assembly on this particular Green Energy Act. In fact, I would be remiss not to once again in this assembly provide a great deal of credit to my seatmate from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke, who was the energy critic at the time it was first introduced. I’d also like to give credit to my colleague Vic Fedeli, who was the critic for the energy file previous to me, who wrote our white paper on affordable energy. He was critical on where we are going to go in the future.

Of course, we have to talk about Ms. Green Energy herself, the person who came to this assembly on day one fighting wind turbines in her community of Huron–Bruce, Lisa Thompson. She has been a vocal advocate for the people across this province, not just in her riding, who are tired of the Green Energy Act. She comes here with a sense of purpose. She understands what their concerns are. She understands their plight.

In fact, it was Lisa Thompson who, a year ago almost this month, brought to this assembly the fact that this Liberal government was breaching and breaking international law. She told them a year ago they needed to comply. What took them so long? What took them 11 and a half months? Why did they drag their feet? Why are they costing Ontarians more money? Why are they trying to send more jobs out of this province? Why are they trying to embarrass the federal government? Lisa Thompson, John Yakabuski, Vic Fedeli, Tim Hudak, the rest of us—we want to know why.

We want to understand from this Liberal government why their rigid ideology could plunge our province into an international trade war and cost us 300,000 manufacturing jobs. Why would they put hydro rates in this province to a point where people can’t afford to pay their bills? Why would they do this? These are the questions the Ontario Progressive Conservative caucus has, and we believe the only way to answer any of those questions is to rip up the Green Energy Act that was brought in by George Smitherman once and for all.

I’m proud that my leader, Tim Hudak, has travelled this province, has told business leaders, has told seniors, has told farmers, has told everybody who will listen that the only option in the next election to restore locally based decision-making and bring back sound economic-based policy for energy that will ensure that our farmland remains agricultural is Tim Hudak. I am proud to be on that team, Speaker, because I have, in my own community, the threat of a wind turbine development in North Gower.

I want to once again speak to the people I represent through Jane Wilson, the chair of the North Gower wind action committee. I want them to know back home that I am going to continue to fight for you. I am going to continue to stand up and oppose this Green Energy Act and I am going to continue to stand up in the Ontario Legislature to fight that wind turbine development in North Gower. We’re going to continue to do it, and we’re going to continue to use every available opportunity for debate to expose the problems with the Green Energy Act.

We’re going to continue to talk about that embarrassing $20-billion number for 1.1% of our energy supply. We’re going to continue to talk about the Auditor General’s report that says that for every job they create, they lose four more as a result of the Green Energy Act and its high prices. We’re going to continue to talk about those 80 municipalities across this wonderful province of ours who are opposed to wind turbine developments, who don’t want them and want their local say restored.

And we’re going to continue to remind this assembly that Health Canada and the Waterloo Institute for Sustainable Energy are looking at this Green Energy Act and they are talking about its implications. They are studying its ramifications and they will report. These are the real challenges with the Green Energy Act, and, as I’ve stated on a number of occasions, the final nail in this Green Energy Act is that we are non-compliant with international trade law.

I understand that, from time to time, people in this assembly have differences of opinion, but the facts in opposing the Green Energy Act more than speak for themselves. Again, I suggest to you this, humbly: It is not just the Ontario Progressive Conservative caucus who is saying this. It’s effectively every rural municipality in this province. It’s effectively every person who’s lost their job because their company can’t afford the high energy prices. It is effectively every senior whose old age security cheque is smaller than their hydro bill. We are speaking on behalf of those people.

I feel very confidently that we have made our case, so I will repeat this for the third and final time: We believe the best way to become compliant with the international trade law is to rip up the Green Energy Act. That said, we will not stand in the way of this province becoming compliant because, after all, we do not want to embarrass our federal government as this government has just done, and we do not want to plunge our province into an international trade war in which we will cost further jobs and more hardship on the wonderful people of this province.

So I submit to you, to the Liberals, do the right thing. Rip up the Green Energy Act. And if you’re not prepared to do that, get this done right away. Thank you very much.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Questions and comments.

Mr. Rosario Marchese: I have to admit that I like the member from Nepean–Carleton.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: But?

Mr. Rosario Marchese: But it doesn’t prevent me from disagreeing with her, obviously. That’s what I wanted to say.

She speaks about the Liberal Party having a rigid ideology on wind, which is an interesting concept to attach to the whole notion of wind. I would remind the member that the rigid ideology was committed by the former leader of the Conservative Party, who actually privatized a lot of the energy deals and hydro deals that gave away anywhere from $600 million to $1 billion to private companies to put in their own deep pockets, taking it away from men and women who desperately needed a little support. That is rigid ideology continued by my Liberal friends with whom every now and then we are in lockstep.

They have kept that ideology rigidly in their hands, supporting the Mike Harris regime. That is ideology.

There’s no doubt that we are subsidizing—we, Ontarians, are subsidizing private power initiated by the Mike Harris regime and continued by the Liberals. That’s how we subsidize them, and they don’t talk about that. They simply talk about wind and their obsession with wind. We agree with them that the Liberals have not done that very well, that we have overpaid in that regard and we’ve not consulted communities very well. Because if they’re on board, it’s going to be okay; if they’re not, it’s going to be a problem.

We agree with that, but we should be looking to the Quebec model because Quebecers have done this well in terms of negotiating great deals with Americans. That’s the way we should be going, not the way this government has done it.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Questions and comments?

Mr. Bob Delaney: Speaker, this bill is a very simple one. It asks the Legislature to repeal one

section of the Electricity Act, 1998, and that one

section deals with domestic content requirements for Ontario renewable wind projects. Repealing that one

section accomplishes the goal of this bill.

The Progressive Conservative Party has said, and my colleague from Nepean–Carleton said very clearly, that they don’t want to stand in the way of complying with the World Trade Organization ruling. So that’s very easy: Stand up and ask for unanimous consent to pass this bill at second and third reading—it is a single section—and we’re done. That’s all there is to it. That’s all there is to this bill.

Speaker, what this does is protect Ontario’s investment in renewable energy, the direction that the rest of the world has been going in. Ontario is North America’s leader in the development and deployment of clean, green, renewable energy.

I know they would like to throw it out. I know they’d like to go back to burning coal. I know they’d like to go back to the 20th century. I know they’d like to go back to exactly what they were doing before. But that’s not what Ontarians want. That’s not the direction that the world is going in.

What we’ve got here before the Legislature is a single, simple bill that asks the Legislature and its members, honourable members all, to repeal a single

section of the Electricity Act, 1998. That single section, that one act, will bring Ontario into compliance with the World Trade Organization ruling.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Questions and comments?

Mr. John Yakabuski: It’s a pleasure to comment on the address by our energy critic, my colleague from Nepean–Carleton.

She raises some very, very good points. We, as legislators, come here and pass laws, and we expect that the people will abide by those laws. That is the responsibility of a citizen in an orderly community: to abide by the law.

But we have a government here that wantonly broke the law, broke the international trade laws, and knowingly did it.

Interjection: Shameful.

Mr. John Yakabuski: That is shameful. What kind of example does that set? And they’ve taken four years to even try to remedy that.

What are the implications of passing this new bill to bring us into compliance? We’re going to stop embarrassing Canadians—not just the federal government, but every Canadian out there who believes that Canadians are law-abiding citizens, and then they have the government of the largest, most populous, wealthiest province in this country breaking international laws and doing so knowingly, thumbing their nose at international law.

What will be the result of this? Those so-called 50,000 jobs they promised, which have never materialized—they give incorrect information on a daily basis about how many jobs have been created in the so-called green energy business. Well, once we have to comply with international law, all the advantages they were giving to Ontario companies are gone. They’re gone. So those jobs aren’t going to be created. If those jobs aren’t going to be created, yet we’re paying triple the price for electricity that we paid in 2003, what was the point of this Green Energy Act, other than to line the pockets of Liberal friends and empty the pockets of Ontario citizens?

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Questions and comments?

Ms. Peggy Sattler: Speaker, I want to congratulate the member from Nepean–Carleton on her comments. I always enjoy being in this Legislature and hearing her speak. One thing I truly admire about her is her absolute consistency in her content. Whenever she rises to speak, we always hear the same old messages, the messages about getting rid of green energy.

While we have some concerns about the Green Energy Act, and while we totally agree that electricity prices are out of control in this province—Ontarians can’t afford a 42% increase; they can’t afford the 40% increase in natural gas—Ontarians want renewable energy.

I look at my own city of London’s Community Energy Action Plan that was developed after an extensive process. Some of the key principles that were identified in that plan: start with conservation, focus on energy efficiency and good design, make use of free heat and free light, use renewable energy and make it local. These are the kinds of principles that Ontarians want to see reflected in energy policy, and these are the things that we should be focusing on.

I find it rather rich, frankly, that the Tories are so critical of the energy policy when it was Mike Harris and the PCs that started the province on the road to privatization that has gotten us into this mess.

So I agree that there is a need to respect our international trade obligations and support this legislation, but I don’t agree with the member from Nepean–Carleton about the Green Energy Act.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): The member from Nepean–Carleton has two minutes.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: I thoroughly enjoyed the opportunity to talk about the concerns of the people of the province of Ontario. During the months of January and February, my leader, Tim Hudak, asked me to travel the province on our affordable energy plan. I was able to speak to dozens of people in 23 or 25 ridings—I forget now. I had the opportunity to speak to business leaders, to seniors and to municipal councils. What occurs to me is that the only plan that Ontarians are buying at the moment for energy prices and for a plan to move forward is the Ontario Progressive Conservative plan in our Affordable Energy white paper.

I must say, the cornerstone of making life more affordable for Ontarians is to ensure that they have affordable energy prices, and in order to do that, you have to get rid of the Green Energy Act. Anybody who tells you it’s as simple as conservation also has a power plant in Mississauga and another in Oakville to sell you. I think that that completely debunks my good friends in the New Democrats.

And I think the Liberal record has spoken for itself over the past decade. I think it’s been very clear that their energy policies have failed Ontarians. In fact, I just want to go through a few numbers. Numbers don’t lie. These are the facts: The energy minister himself said it costs $20 billion for 1.1% of wind energy. The Auditor General told us that for every job that is created in Ontario, four are lost because of the Green Energy Act and its prices. My colleague from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke was correct when he said that the numbers don’t lie and that we are losing jobs—they promised 50,000 that never materialized. That’s important.

The other issue is local democracy. Eighty municipalities in rural Ontario have said they do not want the Green Energy Act. We stand with them, Speaker.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Further debate?

Mr. Peter Tabuns: It’s a pleasure to rise today to talk about the state of our economy, the state of our environment and, frankly, how we need to be protecting jobs in this province.

Just to refresh people’s memories as to why green energy is of consequence to this province and to this nation: We are facing a period of substantial and dramatic change in the world around us. Climate change has brought more extreme weather to Ontario; it has brought more extreme weather around the world. We went through the ice storm in December where people were left shivering in the dark for days and, in some cases, weeks on end. Increasing numbers of ice storms are one of the consequences of our changing climate.

In Toronto alone, we’ve seen three once-in-a-century storms in the first decade of this century. The climate is changing. Even current models show Thunder Bay having the climate of Toronto within the next 25 years and Toronto having the climate of northern Kentucky. That is what we are on track for with carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases that are already in our atmosphere.

Those changes will be profoundly disruptive to our lives. They will make for extraordinary tension and conflict in societies around the world.

At the same time, Speaker, the opportunity exists, just as it did at the beginning of the 20th century, to bring on board new technologies that will in fact open up tremendous economic opportunities. At the beginning of the 20th century, Ontario decided to build non-profit hydroelectric facilities, and I have to say it was controversial. It was controversial because the private coal interests fought them tooth and nail.

People in Ontario today don’t know the history of that conflict, don’t know that private interests not only tried to stir up opposition here in Ontario but went to leading financial centres in Europe to attack funding for Ontario Hydro at that time, because they could see where things were going. Ontario Hydro, domestic renewable power, had the potential to displace millions of dollars of investment in coal power. At that time, the business community in Ontario understood that a major competitive advantage came from having non-profit domestic energy.

The ability to stop having to buy all that coal, which we were buying from Pennsylvania, and to generate our own power made for Ontario’s industrial development. It allowed us to keep our money here in Ontario instead of having to ship it outside the province.

Right now we’re facing another technological revolution in the electricity sector. It was hydro at the beginning of the 20th century; it will be wind and solar in the 21st century. That is simply the reality. There is a trillion-dollar market that is developing around the world. Leading industrial powers like Germany and China are investing heavily in renewable energy. They are developing the technologies that we are going to be moving forward on, that we need to move forward on.

Speaker, this province needs to be part of that technological revolution. It needs to have the jobs that flow from that technological revolution. It needs, as it did at the beginning of the 20th century, to develop the expertise that will allow us to export globally. And frankly, that is something that did happen at the beginning of the 20th century. What we learned developing renewable hydroelectric power in Ontario gave us the potential to implement our learnings in countries around the world. We can do the same with renewable energy.

Today we are speaking to the shortcomings in the strategy pursued by the Liberal government, and, frankly, their failure to put in place a local procurement process that was grounded in public ownership of power. We’re addressing this issue today because unfortunately the Liberals decided to follow in the footsteps of the Mike Harris Conservatives before them and to privatize power generation in this province. Because the Liberals decided to follow that course of action in the development of renewable power, we face a challenge around local content provisions for renewable investments.

I want to say that not only has privatization endangered local manufacturing of renewable energy technologies, but it has also imposed a huge burden on the people of Ontario. I have seen no studies that have quantified how much people are paying in profits to private power companies. If you in fact take a look and gather as many annual reports as you can, Bruce energy generates around $600 million a year in profits.

There are a large number of other private generators owned by TransCanada, some Japanese companies, generating in Ontario and extracting roughly $1 billion a year in profit that in the 1990s Ontario ratepayers didn’t have to pay. So if people are worried about higher prices, they should be opposing the privatization of the system. Unfortunately, to my right we have a party that is truly to the right and would like to privatize and drive up prices on people for everything. That is their approach.

The fact that the Liberals did not use public methods, public power, to develop renewable energy has brought us into this dispute with the World Trade Organization. As of today—we’ll see what they have to say tomorrow—the government has neither expressed any awareness of this reality—they haven’t noted that it was their privatization strategy that has brought them into difficulties with the World Trade Organization—nor any desire to change the rules so that publicly owned generation will be able to take advantage of local procurement.

I had an opportunity to read the speeches of the minister and his parliamentary assistant when they did their leadoff roughly a week ago. I saw not a single word in their speeches about how to solve this problem by directing investment to public ownership of power generation. I looked at what the minister had to say.

He said the bill that he presented, “if passed, makes modifications to the Electricity Act, 1998, that would enable Ontario to comply with the World Trade Organization ruling on domestic content provisions in the feed-in tariff or FIT renewable energy program.” He goes on to speak for another 20 minutes, 25 minutes, but not a single word about alternative strategies to defend jobs in Ontario. Not a word, Speaker, not a word.

He doesn’t acknowledge that the core problem with the Liberal approach, both in terms of protecting prices and jobs in Ontario, and in terms of protecting Ontario from the World Trade Organization—he doesn’t acknowledge that his privatization agenda has jeopardized this province. He spends a lot of time congratulating himself and his party about the electricity system but never talks about options for maintaining local content.

Happily, there are people who are thinking about alternatives. How do we protect local content and renewable generation? How do we protect jobs in Ontario while we develop a renewable energy system?

I have to say, the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives commissioned a report recently called Saving the Green Economy. The groups supporting it—Blue Green Canada, the Canadian Union of Public Employees, the Council of Canadians and Unifor—brought on Scott Sinclair, the author of the study, who was a senior trade policy adviser with the government of British Columbia. This paper takes apart the government policy and the errors made by the Liberals in relying on a private power model of renewables development when there were and there are real alternatives to the course the Liberals have chosen.

I’m going to quote from that study. The author talks about the decision of the final appeal board, the Appellate Body, that ruled when Canada appealed the initial decision of the World Trade Organization. He writes, “While the legitimacy of the Appellate Body’s narrow

interpretation of the government procurement exclusion is highly questionable”—fair enough—“it is also true that the complexity of Ontario’s partially liberalized electricity system”—or, for normal people, partially privatized electricity system—“unnecessarily exposed the economic development aspects of the Green Energy Act to challenge. In particular, the decision to rely so heavily on subsidies to private power producers, while barring Ontario Power Generation from investing in non-hydroelectric renewables, increased the vulnerability to trade treaty litigation.”

I have no doubt for a moment that the government has hired lawyers, employs lawyers in its ministries, has looked at this from a variety of angles and understands that their core problem was the problem of private producers, not the problem of local content; that the government knew when it started that there was a potential risk and now knows, from the words of the World Trade Organization and the Appellate Body, that it’s the private procurement piece that puts Ontario jobs at risk. It knows and has not acted, has not come forward with a policy that would in fact protect those jobs and shift away from private ownership to public ownership.

I’ll quote again from this paper: “A feed-in tariff ... program provides above-market rates for different forms of renewable energy. To qualify, producers must meet local content requirements ... under which a minimum percentage of goods, services or labour must be sourced within Ontario. The premium rates paid for green energy encouraged new investment in renewable while local content quotas helped create thousands of new jobs in the province. Both were essential to gathering popular support for the act.”

The Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives is right: If you want to have support for a transition, you have to create and maintain manufacturing and construction jobs in this province so that people see a very visible benefit economically and, at the same time, they see a benefit environmentally.

The CCPA goes through the history of this dispute: “In 2013, responding to complaints by Japan and the European Union, the” World Trade Organization “dispute settlement authorities ruled that the act’s local content requirements were in conflict with international trade rules.”

He says here, “The WTO’s ruling was surprising to many, since government procurement policies are expressly exempted from the national treatment ... obligations of the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade.” Generally speaking, where governments are procuring, they have the freedom to procure locally. Many thought that that would be interpreted broadly.

“[T]his was the first case in the history of the” General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade and the World Trade Organization “where the dispute settlement authorities were asked to interpret this exclusion for public procurement.” It was the first time it had been ruled on—the first time.

“The WTO panel found that the” feed-in tariff “program did not qualify as an excluded procurement because, in its opinion, the energy purchased by the Ontario Power Authority was resold on commercial terms by the government of Ontario and other public hydro entities. The Appellate Body agreed that the program did not benefit from the GATT exemption for procurement but for narrower, more complicated reasons.

Their decision hinged on the fact that under the” feed-in tariff “program, the product to which the discriminatory local content requirements applied was generation equipment, while the product actually purchased by the Ontario government was electricity. In the Appellate Body’s view, the domestic content quota could not be said to ‘govern’ the procurement of electricity, and therefore fell outside the scope of the exclusion.”

Speaker, it’s very clear from the decision that was made at the dispute resolution body and the Appellate Body that the problem with the Liberals’ approach is that they privatized the ownership of the generation equipment, and that with a different strategy—that is, applying feed-in tariffs to publicly owned generators, be they municipally owned, be they owned by school boards or hospitals—we would be able to maintain the local content rules and protect local jobs here in Ontario.

What will this bill do? We’ve had the parliamentary assistant stand up and speak to it earlier. It’s very simple: It ends the requirement for local content and renewable energy projects that are brought into being with feed-in tariff projects. So if you’ve got a solar array on a school, a hospital or a transit garage owned by a municipality, all public installations—if those installations are funded by the feed-in tariff program, then those bodies, schools, cities, hospitals and universities won’t be required to have local content in those generation installations, even though such installations would be exempt from World Trade Organization requirements.

The Liberals have ignored the potential to protect local content requirements by simply saying, “There won’t be any for anyone,” which goes far beyond the ruling of the World Trade Organization and its Appellate Body; far beyond. What will this mean for procurement? Under the current regime, there is local content requirement. Solar panel assemblers, windmill builders have to use Ontario-made goods to a certain percentage. It has been said by the Liberals that they will export to the rest of the world, and frankly, when they get big enough they will and they should.

But there’s every reason in the world to ensure that, here in Ontario, we give them a market that can be their base that they can build on. If you are assembling windmill towers in Windsor, assembling solar panels in London or developing windmill blades in Welland, all those jobs may be put at risk by the government’s action: its refusal to look at a creative solution, a public ownership solution, to the local content requirement.

Other countries with large markets and larger economies give a boost to their own manufacturers because they have those larger economies and larger markets. We need to boost our domestic manufacturers so that they can compete with those jurisdictions.

There is some lack of clarity around this bill, and that was not helped by the fairly content-free speech made by the Minister of Energy. He said what the bill was going to be, he talked about his wonders and those of past Liberal governments, but didn’t say: Given that Ontario Power Generation can now develop renewable energy, will they be applying local content rules? No comment on that. If the Ontario Power Authority is going to be procuring renewable energy installations under a request for proposal rather than a feed-in tariff, will there be a local content provision in that case?

I ask the government to address those questions. We need to know how much local content will be protected, how many local jobs will be protected and how many will be at risk as we go forward with the development of renewable energy.

A question that arises that the government should have asked: What are its alternatives? What can it do to ensure that jobs in Ontario stay in Ontario? I turn back to the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives. They write:

“The most straightforward option to preserve the local economic development component of the Green Energy Act, and to ensure that is implemented consistently with current international trade rules, is for Ontario to pursue its complementary renewable energy and economic development goals through more conventional public procurement models. In the case of renewable energy contracts, where a public entity acquires the generation equipment, the Ontario government would still be free under WTO rules and Ontario’s current” World Trade Organization “obligations to stipulate that all or any portion of that equipment be manufactured in Ontario....

“Any renewable energy project owned by a municipality or a broader public sector entity remains free to apply local content requirements in its purchases. For example, so long as they retain ownership of the generating equipment, a hospital or university developing rooftop solar panel systems under the” feed-in tariff “program could apply preferences for local content in the supply of components. In fact, the key to reconciling the act’s sustainable development thrust with” World Trade Organization “obligations is to pursue these job creation goals through more traditional public sector procurement policies….

“The most straightforward option to preserve the local economic development component of the Green Energy Act, and to ensure that it is implemented consistently with current international trade rules, is for Ontario to pursue its complementary renewable energy and economic development goals through more conventional public procurement models. In fact, other jurisdictions in Europe, Asia, and Africa are also returning to public sector-led investment in renewable energy, as experience with liberalized electricity markets has failed” to deliver the investments that they need.

This government could have brought forward a bill written such that local content requirements were protected for publicly procured renewable energy and recognized that the WTO and its Appellate Body were currently going to block them from making such requirements for private producers, made that distinction and focused its investments and efforts on publicly owned power. It could have done that and it didn’t.

I think that the government needs to address that in the course of this debate. Why didn’t they stand up for Ontario jobs? Why didn’t they use creative application of law? Why didn’t they use the protections already in place in international trade law to ensure that we in Ontario have the jobs protected that we need to protect? They have to answer for that. They have to answer for that.

They have pursued a privatization model from the time that they were elected in 2003. We have seen the fallout from that privatization model—we are very well aware of that—large profits that have gone to private companies that are a burden on the people of Ontario. We’ve gone through the two gas plant boondoggles, scandals, in which it was very clear from the government’s own documents that when they found it politically damaging to proceed with those plants, the first warning they got from their bureaucrats was, “If you cancel, you are going to have to pay for the lost profits. You are going to have to pay for the lost profits.”

When you go into the privatization of the power system, you assume huge risks. Your ability to redeploy assets, to change the direction of your investment is shaken. Your ability to move is bound. We have paid a lot for privatization, literally in dollars, and we have paid a lot in terms of jobs.

Will this government take another direction? That remains to be seen. Will they realize that what they have done in terms of responding to the WTO is profoundly problematic for jobs here in Ontario?

Many people have asked, “Why have energy prices, electricity prices, in particular, gone so high in Ontario?” I’ve talked about private energy, private profit that is siphoning about a billion dollars a year out of the pockets of Ontario ratepayers—industrial, residential, commercial—a huge amount of money. Exactly what the Liberals have done following the lead of the Conservatives.

The Conservatives, frankly, have just been Liberals in a hurry when it has come to this issue. They would love to privatize everything that’s remaining—

Mr. Rosario Marchese: It’s the other way around.

Mr. Peter Tabuns: Hey, it’s the way they are. It’s the way they are.

The other thing, Speaker, is that not only are we stuck with paying these high profits to these companies, but because there’s so much money to be made in building generation assets in the nuclear and the gas field, they are constantly pressing for more, so now we have a huge oversupply of power.

We have said, and our researchers have produced the numbers showing that we spend a billion dollars a year for power that we sell for about $300 million a year to New York, to Michigan, to whoever will take it at these bargain basement prices.

We have a government that has been captured by private power interests. Frankly, the ratepayers, the people of this province who try to keep warm, who try to keep the lights on, are paying the freight. They are stuck with that bill.

If you look at the history of this province, we developed the hydro resources of Ontario at the beginning of the 20th century that gave us a tremendous competitive advantage and gave us power at cost, something that for decades was a common heritage of this province and, frankly, commonly supported by parties in this province, because they understood the competitive advantage. In the 1950s and 1960, we started going into coal. In the late 1960s and 1970s, we started going into nuclear. When we got hit with the very high prices of nuclear in the 1990s, when Darlington came on and electricity prices went up about 25% in two years—

Interjections.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Do I have to say anything? You already had number 3—one more. Huron–Bruce, I’ve been watching you closely, too.

Continue.

Mr. Peter Tabuns: Now there’s a Speaker.

If you look at the history, we started running into very high-cost regimes for electricity as extraordinarily expensive nuclear power plants came online. In fact, that cost disruption, in the opinion of many, is what gave the Conservatives the bright idea—well, Margaret Thatcher probably figured in, as well, as an example for them—to start privatizing Ontario’s hydro assets, its hydro system, in the late 1990s. We all know how that worked out. We all know that it led to soaring prices.

It also led to a realization on the part of the government that the nuclear assets it had were unsellable with the debt that was attached to them. There was a huge stranded debt because the power produced by the plants, if they were paying all their costs, would be way outside what the market would sustain, which is why on people’s hydro bills they see a little line saying “debt retirement charge.” Many people wonder what that is. Well, that’s paying for overruns on nuclear power plants.

Interjections.

Mr. Peter Tabuns: Interesting. I hear heckling from someone over on the other side. In fact, Speaker, the Liberals were very enthusiastic nuclear cheerleaders and builders.

The debt arose from those investments that went way over budget, and the people of Ontario are paying it through their hydro bills on a daily basis. Any surplus from Ontario Power Generation, Hydro One flows that into paying for that stranded nuclear debt as well—an extraordinary expense for all of us.

The Liberals didn’t learn from any of that, did not learn, continued to carry forward on privatization and, frankly, in this case, have made a decision apparently—maybe we’ll see if it softens in the next little while—to choose private power generation over Ontario jobs. They have to take their pick.

Ontario wasn’t the only province that had money problems with nuclear power. In Quebec, Gentilly-1 and Gentilly-2 nuclear power stations were built. Quebec paid for two nuclear power plants. Gentilly-1 was never able to operate at full power and was shut down within a few years; it was unstable. So Quebec paid for two plants and got one. Recently, Quebec decided not to refurbish Gentilly-2, because it couldn’t afford the power that would come from it. They actually had people who went to Point Lepreau and looked at how that refurbishment was done—the one in New Brunswick that went way over budget and years past completion time. They concluded that this was a very bad way to do a project.

Then they went to Wolsong, in Korea, to watch how the Koreans refurbished their Candu reactor. They thought that the Koreans had figured it out better than the folks in New Brunswick. They took all the lessons from Korea and Point Lepreau and put them into their planning, and their conclusion was that even with best practices, the cost of power was about three times the market value. They would have to subsidize that plant heavily for it to run, and so decided not to proceed.

We in Ontario have never reviewed, through an environmental assessment, any of the nuclear investments that we have made. We have not done that. We have not looked at the alternatives. We have not looked at the business case. We have not pursued what would be a very sensible course of action for this province.

In this province, if we are going to contain electricity prices, we have to, first of all, make our use of electricity as efficient as possible, and we don’t do that.

A number of years ago, the Ontario Power Authority commissioned a study showing that it would be cost-effective to displace 23% of Ontario’s load through investment in conservation and efficiency. We’re talking there of costs equivalent to about three to six cents per kilowatt hour. That is the least expensive and, frankly, the most labour-intensive way, the most job-creating way, of providing us with new electricity, something that neither of these two parties is interested in—neither.

They can, in the Liberal case, speak in favour of it and then make it a sideshow; in the Conservative case—again, they’re Liberals in a hurry—they just simply wouldn’t do it. All they want to do is buy more new nuclear power plants at extraordinary cost. That’s the heart of their electricity strategy and, frankly, one that is completely unaffordable in this province.

Speaker, we are on the edge of very dramatic changes in electricity generation in the world. Distributed generation is starting to shake up power markets in a variety of places. Just recently, one of the largest utilities in Germany, RWE, declared a massive loss. In their declaration of that loss, they recognized they had gotten into renewables too late and that the market was changing around them.

We have to recognize that we are at a point of change in the electricity sector comparable to the change in the telecommunications sector when people went from land lines to mobile phones. Suddenly, fewer and fewer people were taking on land lines. More and more people were switching to mobile. It changed the environment within which telecommunications companies operate.

We are looking at similar developments in the energy field. Already now in Europe, there are 19 jurisdictions where solar power is the same price as grid-based power. As that happens, more and more people just purchase their own electricity-generating equipment, install it and leave the grid behind, and that leaves a bigger and bigger hole for utility companies to deal with.

We here in Ontario need to ensure that we don’t get caught in a trap where we have a huge amount of investment in generation and transmission that is undercut when the world moves on to another method of providing itself with electricity.

I’ll bring myself back again, then, to this bill.

We in Ontario need to be in the industry. We need to be part of developing these new technologies. We need to not simply be consumers of technology from other jurisdictions, other countries, but we need to develop the manufacturing expertise here so that we can supply ourselves and so that we can export to the rest of the world.

There is definitely a synergy between manufacturing and research and development. If you don’t have manufacturing, you don’t have real-world opportunities to develop your new innovative products. If Ontario undermines its renewable energy manufacturing sector, then its ability to become a player in the development of new products is profoundly compromised.

This government needs to go back, look at its bill and tell this chamber how, with regard to public bodies procuring renewable generation, it will ensure that, where the WTO doesn’t require a repeal of local content, we use local content. It needs to change its bill. It needs to ensure that public purchase and local requirements are maintained.

Speaker, this government needs to rethink its whole strategy. It would be to our advantage as a province to have them rethink the way that we deal with the WTO and rethink, frankly, how we deal with the whole electricity sector. Today, it’s this bill and this item.

Speaker, I believe I’ve set out my arguments. I believe that the message is clear to the government. We only have a few minutes left, and I think I’ll wrap up for the day.

Second reading debate deemed adjourned.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): I thank the member from Toronto–Danforth.

It’s close enough to 10:15 that this House stands recessed until 10:30 this morning.

The House recessed from 1012 to 1030.

CORRECTION OF RECORD

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Leeds–Grenville on a point of order.

Mr. Steve Clark: I’d like to correct my record. Last night in my late show with the Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities, I said there were more students applying to attend the Kemptville campus than there were who applied to the Ridgetown campus. What I meant to say was that 2014 applications increased at Kemptville, the campus that the University of Guelph is closing, while Ridgetown’s decreased.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member has a point of order. It’s always available for members to correct their own record.

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Before I do introductions of guests, I just want to point out that, from my perspective and from my observation, there’s a lot of people to introduce. So I’m going to remind you of one thing: Please just do the introductions and leave all the other stuff aside. I’ll get through everyone today as best I can.

Mr. Michael Harris: I’ll be quick, then. I’d like to welcome Kerry Hadad, CEO of Your Neighbourhood Credit Union in Kitchener. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

M me France Gélinas: It gives me great pleasure to introduce a fervent defender of medicare, obstetrician-gynecologist Dr. Larissa Tam, who is in the gallery today watching the proceedings. I admire her deeply. Thank you for being here, Dr. Tam.

M. Grant Crack: Il me fait un grand plaisir de souhaiter la bienvenue à tous mes amis qui sont ici aujourd’hui pour célébrer la journée de Glengarry–Prescott–Russell.

I’m very, very happy to welcome mayors and councillors across Glengarry–Prescott–Russell who are here today and the staff who are working so hard right now, as we speak, to prepare. I welcome everyone in this House to celebrate Glengarry–Prescott–Russell day with us in 247. It’s great to have the warden, le président des Comtés unis, M. Jean Paul St. Pierre. Bienvenue, tout le monde.

Ms. Lisa M. Thompson: I’d like to welcome to the chamber Harry Joosten, Libro Credit Union; Jennifer Rowe, Meridian Credit Union; and Alena Thouin from Central 1 Credit Union. Welcome.

Mr. Percy Hatfield: It is my great pleasure today to introduce to the House two good friends of mine; they actually live in Trinity–Spadina. Phyllis Amber is over here—Phyllis, give us a wave—and her husband, Arnold Amber, right here. They’re very good friends.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I’d like to introduce and welcome Antero Elo—he’s the president of the Finnish Credit Union; his office is next to my constituency office—and as well, Robert Paterson, who is president of Alterna Savings. Welcome.

I want to recognize one of my constituents, Bonnie Booth, who is here with Toronto Community Housing’s Close the Housing Gap campaign.

Mr. Jeff Yurek: I’d like to introduce a couple of guests of mine today: Roy Taylor and Ralph Mooney from my constituency. Welcome, guys.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: It’s my privilege to introduce James Olson, chief administrative officer of First Ontario Credit Union, who is here at Queen’s Park as part of the Central 1 Credit Union lobby day. James works at First Ontario’s head office in Hamilton.

Mr. Bill Mauro: It’s my pleasure to introduce to the House, from Thunder Bay, 17-year CEO of the Copperfin Credit Union and currently on the board of directors, Scott Kennedy. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Mr. Rick Nicholls: I’d like to introduce Taras Pidzamecky, who is the CEO and general counsel for the Ukrainian Credit Union, which by the way is celebrating its 70th anniversary this year.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Hamilton East–Stoney Creek.

Ms. Cindy Forster: I’d like to welcome the people that are here—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Hamilton East–Stoney Creek.

Interjection.

Mr. Paul Miller: The new member from Hamilton East, I guess.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I’ll say it a third time: Hamilton East–Stoney Creek.

Mr. Paul Miller: Thank you. I’d like to introduce two of my staffers from my constituency office, Todd White and Jason White. They’re in the back behind your chair.

Also, I don’t know if you’re going to get to the minister, but there are three McMaster students here who are taking direction from my staff and learning.

Hon. Linda Jeffrey: This morning, I’d like to welcome Sean Gadon, the director of Toronto’s Affordable Housing Office; Bud Purves, the chair of the Toronto Community Housing Corp., and the CEO, Eugene Jones; Domanique Grant, president of the Co-operative Housing Federation of Toronto; Harvey Cooper, the manager of government relations of CHF Canada-Ontario region; Ginny Adey, the manager of strategic planning and stakeholder relations at Toronto Community Housing; and Simone Swail, program manager of special initiatives, CMF Canada-Ontario region.

I also want to welcome all those in the public galleries from Toronto Community Housing and all social housing residents. I want to remind members to attend the reception this evening from 5 to 7 in room 228.

Mr. Toby Barrett: Ralph Luimes is here, the CEO of Haldimand-Norfolk Credit Union, in the great town of Caledonia.

Ms. Cindy Forster: I’ll try this again, Speaker. I want to welcome all the people who are here today for Close the Housing Gap day at Queen’s Park, specifically Bonnie Booth, resident of Toronto Community Housing; Mary Aleimda, resident of Toronto Community Housing; Tom Clement, ED for the Co-operative Housing Federation of Toronto; Simone Swail, program manager, the Co-op Housing Federation of Canada; Nicholas Gazzard, executive director, Co-op Housing Federation of Canada; and everyone else who is here from Toronto Community Housing. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Hon. Tracy MacCharles: On a point of order, Speaker: I believe we have unanimous consent that all members be permitted to wear pins in recognition of Credit Unions of Ontario lobby day here at Queen’s Park.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The Minister of Consumer Services is requesting unanimous consent to wear the pins in honour of credit union day. Do we agree? Agreed.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I’m delighted to welcome Harry Joosten from Libro Financial, who’s with us today. Welcome, Harry.

Also, from the sickle cell and thalassemia community we have Doreen Alexander, Dotty Nicholas, Lanre Tunji-Ajayi, Helen Ziavras, Dr. Isaac Odame and Dr. Richard Ward all joining us in support of the member from Eglinton–Lawrence’s private member’s bill today.

Mr. Jim McDonell: I’d like to welcome Bonnie Booth from Toronto Community Housing; Sean Gadon, from Toronto Affordable Housing, Rahima Mulla, the vice-president of the CHF; and Dale Reagan and Diane Miles, both from the CHF. Welcome to Close the Housing Gap day.

Hon. Ted McMeekin: There are actually nine students here from McMaster with Professor White. I met with some of them this morning. I want to welcome them, and I hope they enjoy their experience today.

Mr. Monte McNaughton: I also would like to welcome Harry Joosten from Libro Credit Union, and also Kelly Harris from Central 1.

Hon. Michael Gravelle: I certainly also want to welcome my good friend Scott Kennedy, and introduce to the Legislature Ernie Remillard, president and CEO of Northern Lights Credit Union. Ernie, welcome; good to see you.

Mr. Jim Wilson: Mr. Speaker, we have a number of individuals here from Central 1 Credit Union. I want to welcome them to the Legislature and join with my colleagues in welcoming Kelly Harris, who heads up their government relations. Kelly worked for us for many years in the PC caucus. Don’t hold that against him; he’s a terrific guy and a great worker.

Mr. Mike Colle: I think we have unanimous consent that all members be permitted to wear pins in recognition of Sickle Cell Awareness Day at Queen’s Park today.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Eglinton–Lawrence is seeking unanimous consent to wear pins in honour of sickle cell anemia awareness. Do we agree? Agreed.

Hon. Liz Sandals: I’m delighted to introduce the students behind me from Midorioka High School in Japan, who are visiting Centennial CVI in Guelph, which happens to be the school that my kids went to. So, welcome very much. The students are part of the Kakehashi exchange program, which means “bridge for tomorrow” and promotes mutual understanding among the students of Japan and Canada.

Mr. Frank Klees: I’d like to extend a special invitation to Mr. Richard Senechal, who is the president and CEO of Duca Credit Union.

I also want to give special recognition to Mr. Larry Smith, who is the CEO of Pace Credit Union, as well as the CFO of that great organization, Mr. Phillip Smith.

Mrs. Laura Albanese: I would also like to welcome all the members who are here for Close the Housing Gap.

Also, I would like to welcome Adrienne McKenzie, CEO of Victory Community Credit Union, located in the great riding of York South–Weston.

Mr. Phil McNeely: I’d like to welcome three special guests from the National Caucus of Environmental Legislators. They’re right up at the top, here. Visiting us from Minnesota today are Great Lakes regional coordinators Senator Jane Krentz and Senator John Howe.

I would also like to welcome J.R. Tolbert, the executive director of the National Caucus of Environmental Legislators. They do great work. I invite all my colleagues to meet with the NCEL today. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Mr. Ted Chudleigh: I’d like to welcome Mike Shepherd from first priority credit union in Milton, Georgetown and Acton. Welcome to the Legislature.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: I would like to welcome Kevin Dorse, manager of advocacy for Credit Union Central of Canada, which is located in the great community of Ottawa Centre.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: I’m pleased to welcome to Queen’s Park today the Electricity Distributors Association. They’re having a reception and all members are invited to attend early this evening.

Ms. Helena Jaczek: Please help me welcome the grade 10 students from St. Augustine Catholic High School in Markham.

Hon. Mario Sergio: Speaker, no relation to the Minister of Energy, Bob Chiarelli: I’d like to welcome to the House David Chiarelli from York West, a retired teacher who has been serving our young kids for so many years. Welcome to the House.

Ms. Soo Wong: I’d like to welcome my friend and colleague from the city of Toronto Councillor Kristyn Wong-Tam. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Hon. James J. Bradley: I’d like to introduce Jennifer Rowe, chief marketing officer, Meridian Credit Union in St. Catharines, who is joining us today.

Hon. Tracy MacCharles: I’d like to take this opportunity to welcome Lori Gaudette. She’s the CEO of the Oshawa Community Credit Union. Welcome, Lori. She’s here, of course, with Credit Unions of Ontario.

If I may, I’d like to also acknowledge that visiting today are grade 5 students from St. Elizabeth Seton Catholic Elementary School in my great riding of Pickering–Scarborough East. I’m looking forward to meeting them after question period.

Ms. Mitzie Hunter: It’s my pleasure to welcome my friends and former colleagues from the social housing sector who are here today for the Close the Housing Gap campaign. It’s so wonderful to see you in the House.

I’d also like to welcome Jason Rodricks, who is a social entrepreneur and community advocate, who is also here.

Mr. Mike Colle: On Sickle Cell and Thalassemia Awareness Day, I’d like to welcome the president of the Thalassemia Foundation of Canada, Helen Ziavras, who’s here; the president of the Sickle Cell Awareness Group of Ontario, Lanre Tunji-Ajayi, who’s here; Dr. Odame from SickKids hospital, who’s here; and my good friend Sherman Moore who’s here for Sickle Cell Awareness Day. Welcome.

Hon. Charles Sousa: It gives me great pleasure to introduce today in the Legislative Assembly members of Credit Unions of Ontario. They include Mr. Don Wright, president and CEO of Central 1 Credit Union; and Taras Pidzamecky, CEO and general counsel of the Ukrainian Credit Union.

We also have Rick Hoevenaars, EVP of finance and CFO of Libro Credit Union, and Kelly Harris, government relations regional director of Central 1 Credit Union. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Mr. Percy Hatfield: Just in case we missed anyone, could we welcome everyone else who wasn’t mentioned, please? Thank you.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I’m glad the member from Windsor–Tecumseh picked up on what I used to do.

We welcome all our guests, and thank you for your patience. I appreciate that it does put some people on the waiting game.

I do have an important announcement to make before we get to question period and would seek every single member’s attention.

FIRE DRILL

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I want to ask for the indulgence of the House, just for a few moments, to address the fire drill that was conducted in this building yesterday.

While I can appreciate that it may present an inconvenience to some, fire drills are an exercise in due diligence, ensuring compliance with fire regulations, something that I, as Speaker, am responsible for. It is an important safety exercise that is only effective if it is conducted at a time when occupancy and business are in the normal-to-peak range.

Having received the preliminary report of yesterday’s drill, I was generally encouraged by the response and want to express sincere appreciation to the vast majority of occupants who participated.

However, I was also disappointed to learn that certain occupants, including some MPPs, declined to evacuate the building.

I cannot stress strongly enough that the purpose of these fire drills is to certify that the proper procedures are in place for your safety and the safety of all staff and visitors, so that all occupants—members and staff alike—are fully aware of the appropriate evacuation and re-entry procedures.

Non-compliance with an evacuation order, even during a drill, is a serious and, in my view, foolhardy infraction of fire safety guidelines. I would hope that members of provincial Parliament would offer some leadership in this respect, and I trust that I can be assured of full co-operation in the next fire drill we do have.

I appreciate all of your activities. This does say something about us, and I thank you for it.

It is now time for question period.

ORAL QUESTIONS

ONTARIO BUDGET

Mr. Tim Hudak: My question is to the Premier. Premier, why are you unable to table a budget by March 31, the end of the fiscal year?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: We are working on bringing a budget forward. I know the Leader of the Opposition knows that there’s a lot of work involved in putting together a budget. We have been gathering information from people around the province—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Order. Another point to the member from Leeds–Grenville: You’ll not talk while I’m standing. The Minister of Rural Affairs will come to order when she’s answering. No comments.

Answer, please.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I know the Leader of the Opposition knows that there is a lot of work that goes into putting a budget together, making sure that we gather information from people around the province, that we make the right policy decisions and that we put the right initiatives in the budget.

I know that the Leader of the Opposition remembers that when his party was in office, every single PC budget was tabled in May or June.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Tim Hudak: Thank you. The—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. Order. I’m attempting to get order for your leader, and you’re heckling.

Supplementary?

Mr. Tim Hudak: The Premier should obviously check the facts. In fact, I remember us bringing in a mini-budget—because we faced a jobs crisis in this province in November 1995—to actually balance the books and put people back to work in the province.

I understand now that the Premier says she won’t have the budget by March 31, because it’s a lot of work. The Premier says that it’s a lot of work. But quite frankly, Premier, you’ve had a year to do so. If it’s too much work for you, then I’m willing to take it on, my team is willing to take it on, and we’re ready to bring in a turnaround plan to put people back to work in our province.

We’re facing a jobs crisis in the province of Ontario. There are one million people out of work. We lost 3,000 manufacturing jobs again last month alone. Premier, stop the dithering. Stop the delay. You’ve got a job to do. Do it. If you won’t, we will. We need a turnaround plan in Ontario.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

Premier?

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member for Halton will come to order. If you want to see how quick I’m going to be, try it again.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: First of all, Mr. Speaker, let me just say that there is an enormous amount of work going on already in this province to make sure that people have opportunity. More than 8,000 young people have a placement and a job opportunity because of our youth jobs strategy. We are drawing business to the province; we are partnering with businesses to bring them to the province and help them to expand. That work is ongoing.

We are putting forward an aspirational, practical document, which our budget will be. We will introduce it in this House. We will bring it to this House, unlike the member opposite, whose budgets have been introduced outside of the House when they were in government.

This will not be a mini-budget. We are bringing forward a full-fledged budget, Mr. Speaker, and we will bring it forth in due course.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Mr. Tim Hudak: I didn’t think I’d find myself saying this, Speaker, but it makes you long for the days of Dalton McGuinty and Dwight Duncan, when they actually brought budgets in by March 31. You can’t even hit that standard.

Premier, I don’t think you understand. We’ve lost 300,000 manufacturing jobs in this province. Ontario desperately needs a government that will implement a turnaround plan immediately. In the Ontario PC Party, we have that plan. It’s called the million jobs plan.

Today, we’re tabling a motion in the House that you’ll either call a budget by March 31 or, if you don’t, then implement our jobs plan. But if you choose to do nothing, if you choose not to act at all, we want a confidence vote. Enough is enough. Let’s get on with the job.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

Premier.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Mr. Speaker, this is just another gimmick that the Leader of the Opposition is bringing forward. He knows full well that there is work ongoing to create opportunity in this province. He also knows that when his government was in office, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003: May 7, May 6, May 5, May 4, May 2, May 9, June 17, May 22. That’s his record, Mr. Speaker.

We’re going to bring in an aspirational, practical budget that will create opportunity and security for this province. We’re not going to succumb to the gimmicks of a party that never did the same.

JOB CREATION

Mr. Tim Hudak: Premier, here’s what I’m worried about: I think that you have no jobs plan. You have no turnaround plan. You seem to be running in circles and chasing your tails. That’s not going to put a single person back to work in our province.

I met a small business owner named Scott when I was in Brantford last week. Scott is probably in his early thirties. He had nine employees—a small construction company. Often these small businesses are the backbone of communities like Brantford, Niagara and parts of Toronto. Scott said to me that before the Liberal government came in he had nine employees. Now, after tax increases, energy rate increases and more payroll taxes, he has no employees. I want to see Scott put nine people back to work, and even more. That’s what my turnaround plan will do for our province. You have no plan.

Isn’t it time to actually implement a turnaround plan to help Scott, to help his employees, and to put people back to work in the province of Ontario? Let’s just get on with the job.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Finance.

Hon. Charles Sousa: I appreciate the question, and I appreciate the concern, that finally individuals across the way are looking to provide for jobs. What they’re looking at, however, is going back to glory days of smokestacks and low-value-added jobs, and you can’t compete. You can’t go back in time and try to give Scott an aspiration, more hope, more opportunity. You only do that by investing: investing in skills, investing in training, investing in infrastructure, investing in maintaining a dynamic business climate, things that the member opposite is not doing. Instead, he’s gone to the Ford nation school of politics: only slogans, nothing substantive underneath.

Ontarians deserve better, and they are—when we table this budget, something for the future, something for them.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Tim Hudak: The finance minister, who is not capable of bringing in a budget by the end of the fiscal year—he has had a year to do so—tells us he wants to give Scott an aspiration. I want to give Scott more contracts, more money and more employees on his payroll. That’s the difference between you and me. You’ve got no plan.

Toby Barrett and I were there with Phil Gillies, our candidate in Brantford. Scott was not the only one around the table. They all have the same story to tell. Let me give you an example: Part of my million jobs plan is to reduce the red-tape burden, to take off the handcuffs. Bill 119 was one example. You want to increase payroll taxes across the province to put people out of work. I want to bring them down and give people better paycheques with more take-home pay. I’ve got a plan.

Minister, let me ask you this: If you have no plan by the end of the fiscal year, will you take ours, or will you face a confidence vote? Enough is enough. We’ve got to get people back to work in our province.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. Be seated, please.

Minister of Finance.

Hon. Charles Sousa: We talk about maintaining a dynamic business climate. We introduced reduction to red tape. We eventually introduced reduction in taxes. We did so just in the last session for 90% of businesses in this province—which they delayed, which we put forward.

But let me remind Scott and others out there what happened in 1996 with the Progressive Conservatives. They tabled a budget on May 7. What happened in 1997 with the Conservatives? They tabled a budget on May 6. In 1998, they tabled a budget on May 5. In 1999, they tabled a budget on May 4. In 2000, they tabled their budget on May 2. Oh, wait a minute; what happened in 2001? They tabled a budget on May 9. Better still, in 2002, the members over there tabled their budget on June 17.

We’re going to table a budget on time and in an appropriate manner for the benefit of the long term. Stay tuned.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Mr. Tim Hudak: You can say whatever you want to say about the PC government. It was clear where we stood. We did what we said we were going to do, and it was a time when people were actually working in the province of Ontario. We were booming. Taxes were low. Energy was under control. We led Canada—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I find myself in the unique position of trying to say to somebody who is heckling the member that your own members are being as loud and arguing back and forth. Let’s just tone it down, please.

Wrap up, please.

Mr. Tim Hudak: We led North America in job creation.

All I’ve seen from you is dithering, delay and study after study after study. Now you’re going to kick it down the road a couple more months. We need a turnaround plan now.

Minister, if you’re not capable of doing it, I’ve got a team here that’s capable of doing that. I want people to get back to work. Enough is enough. Let’s get on with it.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. Be seated, please. Thank you.

Minister of Finance.

Hon. Charles Sousa: Ontario has produced over 600,000 net new jobs. We’re on track to produce even more as a result of the investments we’re making, not the reckless cuts that are being proposed over there.

I’ll give the Leader of the Opposition some credit. He is even more excessive and more reckless—and I give Mike Harris some credit for doing what he said he would do. We will not do what they said they’re going to do.

He’s flip-flopping on that very issue as well. He wants to cut employment. He wants to destroy high-value jobs. He wants to ensure that he attacks working families. He has flip-flopped, and he is only doing gimmicks.

Ontarians deserve better, and we’re going to continue to provide for high-value jobs. We’re going to continue to stimulate economic growth. We’re going to table a budget—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Hon. Charles Sousa: —that speaks to the needs of the people of Ontario and the fortunes of—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop, please. New question.

TAXATION

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is to the Premier. Two years ago, the Liberal government was forced to adopt the fairness tax on high-income earners. They had to be dragged, kicking and screaming, to do it, and they pledged that they would get rid of it as soon as they could. The government’s current plan is to hand a million-dollar tax break to Ontario’s highest-income earners within a couple of years.

Apparently, this was the plan yesterday, anyways. Can the Premier confirm that this is still the plan today?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: As we’ve just been talking about and the Minister of Finance was saying, we are going to be introducing our budget. We are not going to talk about it in pieces here in the House. I’m not going to respond to a specific question when we haven’t introduced the budget.

We will be bringing in the budget, and that budget will be aspirational. As the Minister of Finance has said, it will invest in the people of this province, in their skills. It will invest in infrastructure so that communities can grow. It will partner with business, and it will create a competitive business climate, as we have been doing, that will allow businesses to thrive. That is the work that we are doing. That is the budget that we will bring in.

As I have said, I’d be happy to have a conversation with the leader of the third party about the budget if she were interested. She has not so far responded to our request to have a meeting. I’d be happy to have that conversation if she’d like to, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: The Premier has also committed to opening new corporate tax loopholes that will allow Ontario’s wealthiest corporations to write off the HST on entertainment expenses and company cars. Now, apparently this was also the plan yesterday, Speaker. Can the Premier confirm that it’s still the plan today?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Mr. Speaker, the leader of the third party is picking issues out of the air that are not based in what we are doing. They are not part of any kind of coherent plan. They’re not part of any kind of coherent narrative about what she believes the people of this province need. So if she wants to have a conversation about any of those things in context, about what we really are proposing or not proposing, I’d be happy to have that discussion with her. But I am not going to respond to hypothetical assertions by the leader of the third party, because it is not a productive way to have a discussion about the fiscal situation in Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Families are feeling squeezed in tough times, and they are looking for help. But they’re having a hard time believing that the same Liberals that hiked their hydro bills, hit them with the HST and have scrambled to defend tax loopholes for the wealthy, massive CEO salary hikes and billion-dollar scandals, are actually going to, in any way, defend a beleaguered middle class.

The Premier says she wants to do things differently, but trying to raise gas taxes and the HST and then frantically scrambling in the other direction isn’t the leadership that families need. Do the Liberals really think that this is good enough for the people of Ontario?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Mr. Speaker, let me address the issue of people who are struggling to make ends meet: I know that. The leader of the third party can, again, assert that my announcement and our commitment not to raise the HST and not to raise gas tax and not to raise income tax on middle classes—she can assert that that’s because of something that she said. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

We have been working on putting together a transit fund to make sure that we have the revenue to invest in transit for some months. I made the announcement simply because the leader of the third party was causing mischief and fearmongering about what we were or were not going to do.

I’ve made it clear that we are not going to raise those taxes, but I’ve also made it clear that we understand that in addition to the 30% off tuition grant, in addition to the plans for, the programs for reducing electricity costs, we know that people need investment in transit in this province.

JOB CREATION

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Speaker, I think the Premier is protesting a bit too much. We have the list of NDP ideas. We just keep ticking them off.

The question is to the Premier. Earlier this month, the Premier said that she was shocked by the Chrysler decision to walk away from the discussions with the government about Ontario jobs. Like Chrysler, Cliffs Natural Resources also walked away from discussions with the government. Now, this was after the Liberals had promised thousands of jobs at a ribbon-cutting ceremony to announce a refinery in Capreol. Can the Premier report any progress on these two files, Speaker?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Economic Development, Trade and Employment.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: I’m so pleased to hear from the third party, finally, some discussion about Chrysler, because during those negotiations when we were trying to encourage the investment to come here, they were absolutely silent on this investment. Fortunately, we had the great members, like the member for Windsor West, who was actively working on the ground with labour, with the employees, with Chrysler themselves, to land that important deal.

We’re pleased that Chrysler did make a significant investment both in Windsor and in Brampton. We’re working with them, and we’re re-engaging them, hoping to land that longer-term investment. But we continued to make these investments, in Cisco in December, another important example: 3,700 jobs coming with the $4-billion investment. To this day, I don’t know where the NDP is on that investment or the other efforts that we’re making to bring important investments to this province.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Gee, I guess my staff must have missed it in the inbox when I got invited to those negotiations, but I’ll have them look.

Families are worried about their jobs and their future, and Liberal promises are not going to pay the bills, unless you’re working in public relations for the government. The Premier is stubbornly sticking to a failing plan, while company after company seems to be walking away. Does the Premier think her plan is working?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Well, again, Mr. Speaker, I’m not quite sure where the leader of the third party is coming from, because we’re making important investments in this province to the point where Ontario remains, in North America, the number one destination on a per capita basis for foreign direct investment, so I’m not sure what more the leader of the third party wants. Investment is coming to this province. I mentioned the Cisco investment—they’ve remained silent on that—and the Ford investment last September, which is securing nearly 3,000 jobs at the Oakville facility for a significant time to come.

We’re continuing to work with our partners in business and investors overseas to make sure that these investments continue to come, and we’re seeing results as well, with nearly 450,000 net new jobs created in this province since June 2009.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: For years the government has been defending the same old plans that have left Ontario’s unemployment rate above the national average. The Liberals keep doing the same thing, but somehow expecting a different result to occur. That is why New Democrats are actually suggesting something new. A job creator tax credit rewards the companies that are putting people to work. It doesn’t just create more dead money or reward companies that ship jobs out of Ontario.

Is the Premier ready to admit that what she’s doing isn’t working and it’s time to look at some new ideas?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: I wish the leader of the third party had listened to me yesterday—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Minister of Finance.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: —when I talked about the job creators tax plan. This isn’t me speaking about it; this is actually the Obama administration, which abandoned a similar plan because a government report estimated that in the United States 92% of those hired under a similar program would have been hired anyway.

Our Ministry of Finance has looked at their plan as well, and we asked the Jobs and Prosperity Council to look at it. Of course, Jim Stanford from Unifor was a member of that council as well. They abandoned it, they rejected it, but our Ministry of Finance has estimated—because we’re not just talking about net new jobs; you have to actually provide this to all new job creations in the province. It could cost more than $2 billion a year to implement your plan. That’s not good.

AGRICULTURAL COLLEGES

Mr. Ernie Hardeman: My question is to the Minister of Agriculture and Food. Minister, I know from past experience that the minister is involved when the University of Guelph recommends closing Alfred and Kemptville agriculture colleges. When I was the minister and I was asked, I protected the Alfred and Kemptville colleges because I recognized their value.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Order.

Mr. Ernie Hardeman: When Noble Villeneuve, the former member from Stormont–Dundas–Glengarry and East Grenville was Minister of Agriculture, he protected them, too.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Minister of the Environment.

Mr. Ernie Hardeman: Minister, why didn’t you?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Order. The member from Thunder Bay–Atikokan, come to order.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): No, no, no. When I say stop, you stop.

Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I know that my critic, the member opposite, understands that this is an issue that the Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities has responsibility for. I also know that as the Minister of Agriculture and Food, I am very concerned that there are programs in place for young people to be able to get into the agriculture and food industry. It’s extremely, extremely important to me.

I also know that the member opposite knows that the member for Glengarry–Prescott–Russell has worked so that there is a partnership that has been created for the Alfred campus—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Member from Simcoe North, come to order.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: —and he also knows that we are open to partnerships, understanding that the program is not closing—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Lambton–Kent–Middlesex.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: —but that the venue is changing. We are open to partnerships so that there can be a local solution, and I think the member opposite knows that full well.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Ernie Hardeman: Minister, operating Alfred and Kemptville colleges was one of the four conditions for Guelph in their enhanced agreement to operate, and that is an agreement with OMAFRA, your ministry.

An economic impact study of that partnership said that the campuses were crucial to the agricultural research science process and training development. Guelph is still getting the partnership funds, so if they are no longer required to operate the campuses, why did your government bargain that requirement away?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: To the Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. The member from Nepean–Carleton will come to order. The member from Oxford will come to order. The Minister of Energy will come to order. I’m not happy to hear that.

Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities.

Hon. Brad Duguid: It’s not by accident that Ontario has one of the top three agri-food sectors anywhere in North America. It’s because we have a champion as our Minister of Agriculture, and I would put her record in agriculture up with yours or your former colleagues’ any day of the week.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member will withdraw.

Mr. Todd Smith: Withdraw.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): And he’s on the edge.

Carry on, please.

Hon. Brad Duguid: That being said, we understand the concerns being raised in eastern Ontario regarding the Kemptville campus. We understood the concerns being raised as well regarding the Alfred campus, and the member for Glengarry–Prescott–Russell has worked very, very hard to ensure that the Alfred campus remains open. I want to thank him for that on behalf of the francophone students and youth. We’ll continue to work with the members opposite—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. New question.

GO TRANSIT

Ms. Catherine Fife: My question is to the Premier. Kitchener–Waterloo needs all-day, two-way GO service. We don’t need empty Liberal promises. The Premier’s announcement yesterday is neither all-day nor two-way. It’s a couple of more trains in a couple of more years, still going one direction at one time, and it’s another example of more promises and delays from this Liberal government.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock.

Come to order. Minister of Education, come to order. If you guys haven’t figured it out, I’m in the mood. I’m just waiting for the right moment.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Would you like to be the first?

Please finish.

Ms. Catherine Fife: It is not two-way and it is not all-day. It’s another example of more promises and delays from this Liberal government. My question to the Premier: Why can’t the good people of Kitchener–Waterloo get two-way, all-day GO service?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: That’s exactly what the people of Kitchener–Waterloo are going to get, and the people of Guelph and all the stops in between. We are bringing two-way, full-day GO train service to Kitchener–Waterloo, and the investment that we are putting in place will create more than 33,000 net new jobs. So it’s a double bonus. By the end of 2016, Metrolinx will add four additional trains, two in the morning and two in the afternoon, to serve the Kitchener station. That will add 1,000 additional daily passengers. We know that you have to take steps. You have to start on delivering this kind of service.

This is a concrete proposal that we are going to be bringing forward in our budget.

What I think the people of Kitchener–Waterloo need to understand is that the member opposite is part of a party that has absolutely no plan for transit.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Catherine Fife: No timeline and no funding means one thing: The Liberals have no plan to deliver two-way, all-day GO earlier than 2030. The cities of Kitchener, Waterloo and Guelph have been clear. They have called for all-day, two-way GO train service on the Kitchener line. But rather than listening, rather than investing and rather than creating 40,000 jobs, the Liberals are stalling and wasting even more time, just like the last Premier. This Liberal Premier will say anything to distract from their record of delivering nothing.

To the Premier, will she admit she has no idea when two-way, all-day GO will reach Kitchener–Waterloo?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Order. Order. Be seated, please.

Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I just finished giving the member opposite a date. I just finished saying that by the end of 2016, those trains are going to be in place. The member opposite knows full well that we are acting on our commitment, as we have in the last few years. We’ve invested $19.3 billion in public transit.

What is outrageous is that a member of the NDP—who has denigrated any plan we’ve had for transit, who has given us no support in terms of raising revenue and who has no plan for transit—would stand up when she knows full well that we’re bringing full-day, two-way transit to Kitchener–Waterloo, and all she would do is criticize instead of bringing forward a plan that might actually help to move that plan forward.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock, please. Be seated, please. Be seated, please.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I find it absolutely fascinating that I hear complaints all the time from all three sides about one side being too loud, and then as soon as they start, the other side gets loud. How about if we all just tone it down?

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): No, you don’t get the last word; I do.

New question.

STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT

Ms. Dipika Damerla: Recently—in fact, a few weeks ago—I was at an elementary school in Mississauga East–Cooksville. The name of that school is Metropolitan Andrei, and I was there to attend a parent council meeting.

What I heard from those moms that evening—and they were mostly moms—the hot topic of conversation was actually multiplication tables. What I heard those moms tell me is that they really want their kids to learn creative thinking and problem-solving, but they also want to make sure that their kids are learning their multiplication tables and math drills, the same way many of us in this Legislature did when we were in school.

I promised them that night that I would express their views to the Minister of Education, so I’m really pleased that today I’m able to ask this on their behalf, and for all parents in Mississauga East–Cooksville.

To the Minister of Education: What are we doing to ensure that our kids have the best of both worlds?

Hon. Liz Sandals: Thank you to the member from Mississauga East–Cooksville for the question. The member is quite right: Ontario’s students are performing well in math. In fact, our results are above the OECD average, despite what the official opposition continues to say.

I’m proud of the gains that Ontario students have made, but I do know we can do better. As minister, I’ve heard from business and community leaders who tell me they are looking for graduates who know their math and who are also critical thinkers and problem-solvers, which is why we are committed to ensuring there is a balanced approach to math instruction between practice and problem-solving, and not simply a one-dimensional back-to-the-basics approach like the Conservatives are proposing.

In fact, Ontario’s curriculum is very consistent with Quebec’s. We know that it’s important for our students to be able to understand math concepts, know their facts and use them to solve problems.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Dipika Damerla: Thank you, Minister, for that answer. In the last few months, the results for Ontario’s EQAO assessments, as well as the international assessments from the OECD, have been released, and there’s some really great news. It’s reassuring to see that overall in Ontario, 71% of students are at the provincial standard, up from 54% when the Tories were in power. So we’ve done a really good job, and thank you, Minister, for that.

But there’s always room for improvement. Can you tell this House what we are doing to further improve math scores in Ontario?

Hon. Liz Sandals: Thank you to the member. She’s right: Ontario does have a lot to be proud of when we look at our student achievement, and that’s thanks to the great educators we have in our system.

But we do have more work to do on math; we know that. So that’s why we’re investing $4 million to create new learning opportunities in math for educators, including workshops in the summer, and incentives for teachers to take additional qualifications courses.

I know the party opposite believes that the way to raise math scores is to give merit pay for teachers who get the best math scores. You know what? We don’t believe that will work, because we believe that the way to make kids learn better is to help teachers teach our students to build and apply their math scores. That’s why we’re investing in teachers and working with the College of Teachers and the faculties of education to improve math pedagogy.

SCHOOL EXTRACURRICULAR ACTIVITIES

Mr. Rob Leone: My question is for the education minister. As your teachers’ bargaining bill limps through committee, weighed down by dozens and dozens of hand-crafted union amendments, the Ontario PC caucus has made but one request to get this bill passed. We want you to ensure that sports teams, debate clubs and choir practices are not used as bargaining chips the next time the unions decide to hold them hostage.

The funny thing is, Minister, that you actually agree with us. As president of the Ontario Public School Boards’ Association, you supported that idea. We know this because in a 2001 brief to the government, your report stated, “A comprehensive co-instructional program is an essential part of the educational experience.”

At that time, you actually listened to parents and students who told you how important co-instructional activities are to them.

Since the minister has had some time to think about this over the March break, does she agree with her position before or after she became a politician?

Hon. Liz Sandals: Actually, it’s an absolutely consistent position. We totally believe that co-instructional activities are very, very important to creating a safe, supportive and nurturing school environment.

We know that when kids participate in activities beyond just curriculum, that helps them to succeed. For many children, it’s those extra opportunities that actually present their attachment to school.

If he wants more evidence of my stand on that, if he’d look at all the reports made by the Safe Schools Action Team, which I also chaired, he would find that that is the same position.

What we don’t agree with is that mandating these things and trying to legislate will actually solve the problem. Working with partners is what solves the problem, not trying to legislate—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Rob Leone: Minister, if you say something is essential, you will do whatever it takes to get the job done. On your government’s watch, extracurricular activities were an afterthought, a bargaining chip. Parents and students remember that vividly.

The same February 7, 2001, brief suggests that we “remove co-instructional activities from the realm of selective service withdrawal (work-to-rule).”

Minister, there was a time when you stood with students and parents. I can’t imagine what it would be like to work your whole life on behalf of students and to then turn your back the second the unions tell you what to do.

We hear enough empty rhetoric from that party, Mr. Speaker, and students deserve more than that. Will the minister stand by what she believes, stand with parents and students, and safeguard co-instructional activities in Ontario schools? Be the boss, Minister, and do your job.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

Minister?

Hon. Liz Sandals: The difference between the member opposite and me is, as he just pointed out, I’ve been involved in the education system for a very long time—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Lambton–Kent–Middlesex will withdraw.

Mr. Monte McNaughton: I withdraw.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I got it. Relax. I challenge everybody to ratchet it down.

Minister?

Hon. Liz Sandals: What I know, because I was president of the school boards when they were the government, is that they chose to legislate. When they tried to legislate—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Nepean–Carleton will come to order. The member from Lambton–Kent–Middlesex will come to order. The member from Stormont–Dundas–South Glengarry will come to order.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Oh, yes, you did.

Wrap up, please.

Hon. Liz Sandals: We had eight years of chaos, precisely because they insisted that they could solve all the problems of volunteerism by legislating. It didn’t work then; it won’t work now. Partnership works. Fights don’t work.

NURSES

M me France Gélinas: Ma question est pour la ministre de la Santé et des Soins de longue durée. Hundreds of nurses are outside today, urging this government to protect patient care. They are frustrated because more than 1,000 nursing positions have been cut since 2012 and Ontario is falling behind.

Given all that the government knows about the vital role that nurses play across our health care system, why does this government keep laying nurses off?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I welcome the question. I think it’s an important opportunity to set the record right. We have 20,500 more nurses working in Ontario today than in 2003. Let me repeat that: 20,500 more nurses working now than in 2003. We have 4,000 more nurses working today than we did a year ago.

We believe in the role of nurses. We’re expanding the scope of practice. We’re investing in nurse practitioners in running clinics and working in very important roles throughout our health care system. I look forward to the supplementary, but the numbers speak for themselves. From the College of Nurses, we have seen an 18.4% increase in the number of nurses: 20,500 more nurses working today than 10 years ago.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

M me France Gélinas: The minister also knows that Ontario has the second-lowest registered-nurse-to-person ratio in our entire country. We know that there is a direct link between patient outcomes and registered nurses’ workloads, or, said the other way, when you cut nurses, you hurt patients. When will this government stop patting themselves on the back and address the problem that they are creating?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Speaker, let me repeat, because maybe—just maybe—the member opposite did not hear the first time: 20,500 more nurses working today than 10 years ago. In the last year, we have added 4,000 more nurses.

Yes, the health care system is undergoing a transformation. There are more nurses working in the community sector. That’s a good thing. That’s a good thing for patients; it’s a good thing for our health care system.

We value tremendously the role that nurses play, and that’s why we’ve continued to invest in more nurses working throughout our health care system.

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

Ms. Soo Wong: My question is for the Minister of Children and Youth Services. Minister, you and I have an interest in helping Ontario’s vulnerable youth. I’m pleased to acknowledge that this House finally passed Bill 53, which you and I brought forward, and we now can see May 14 proclaimed as Children and Youth in Care Day, a day each year that we can celebrate their accomplishments and, more importantly, raise awareness of the challenges that these youth often face. This is the right thing to do.

Minister, children with communication, developmental and physical disabilities face many challenges. In my riding of Scarborough–Agincourt, I’ve met with many constituents facing these challenges. As a member of the Select Committee on Developmental Services, I heard testimony from many families about their difficulties in accessing services for their children.

Mr. Speaker, through you to the minister: Can she please inform the House what our government is doing in addressing the concern of these families?

Hon. Teresa Piruzza: I’d like to thank the member from Scarborough–Agincourt for the question and, as well, congratulate her on the passage of Bill 53 earlier this week. That was great. Having brought it forward the first time and following up on it, I was quite pleased to see that pass, so congratulations to this House for passing that. I’d like to thank her and the Select Committee on Developmental Services on the work that they’ve done and the interim report that they’ve just brought forward, as well.

The current services that we provide to children and youth with special needs make a real difference, but we recognize that there is more to do. I know that the committee has heard from parents and families, just as I have as well.

I recently announced the new Ontario Special Needs Strategy. As part of this strategy, we will be introducing a new developmental screen to help identify risks to a child’s development as early as possible. We will be hiring service coordinators to make planning for a child’s care easier, and we will be integrating the delivery of rehabilitation supports to eliminate service gaps. We know that families have an interest in ensuring that we stay on track with these changes.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Soo Wong: Thank you to the minister for her response. I’m pleased to hear that we have brought forward a special needs strategy to make it easier for children and families to access supports.

In my riding, I often hear from families about the difficulty they face accessing services, and I’m pleased to hear that we’re taking action.

I’m also impressed by the strength and commitment to caring for their children. I want to make sure that these initiatives help families as effectively as possible. These initiatives need to include the feedback both from the families as well as the leading experts.

Mr. Speaker, through you to the minister, can she also please share with the House how the Special Needs Strategy takes into consideration the advice of families as well as experts in the field?

Hon. Teresa Piruzza: Our new Special Needs Strategy incorporates the feedback that we have heard and certainly is reflected in the strategy. When I announced the strategy, I was at the York-Simcoe Children’s Treatment Network. It really strikes a chord, and you really see the gratitude when you see parents in the audience with tears in their eyes, because they recognize we have listened, and we’ve brought forward a strong strategy.

So you’ve heard that we’ll be assisting with the navigation. We’ll be bringing forward a new developmental screen, hiring service coordinators, making it easier for families to navigate what is now a very complex system. But, as part of this strategy as well, we will be putting in place a committee to assist us with the implementation of this.

We will continue to focus our efforts. We will continue to listen to parents and experts as we implement to ensure that we have all children reaching their opportunities, and helping all children succeed.

GO TRANSIT

Mr. Michael Harris: My question is for the Premier. I have to admit it was a bit rich to hear your GO Transit reannouncement yesterday. You seem to have forgotten your government’s long list of broken promises on infrastructure projects in Waterloo region, so let’s review.

In 2007, you promised you’d build Highway 7; then you didn’t. In 2010, you promised you’d build Highway 7; then you didn’t. In 2012, you promised you’d build Highway 7, but you still haven’t. And let’s not forget: In 2010, you promised four eastbound and westbound GO trains between Kitchener and Toronto, but you cut that in half.

Premier, with such a long list of broken promises on infrastructure projects in Waterloo region, why should anyone in my community believe a word you now say?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Well—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. Be seated, please. Thank you.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: It was my pleasure to be in Kitchener–Waterloo yesterday, and to talk to the Cambridge and Kitchener-Waterloo chambers of commerce and to be able to talk about the investment that we are going to make in full-day, two-way GO service, Mr. Speaker. It was interesting, because there were business leaders and local politicians in the room. They are all very pleased that we are bringing this forward in our budget. They are very, very happy that this is what’s happening.

I know that the member opposite knows—he might just have forgotten, but I think he knows—that there is property being purchased along the corridor to deal with the Highway 7 expansion. I’m sure he just forgot that, but he knows that we’re delivering on that commitment as well.

So we brought the train to Kitchener–Waterloo. We’re going to be bringing full-day, two-way GO service. We’re going to be building the expansion of Highway 7. All of those promises have been made, and they’re being implemented.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Michael Harris: Back to the Premier: Let’s review your GO Transit reannouncement from yesterday. You gave no price tag, you gave no specifics and you gave no time frame, yet you still want residents in Waterloo region to believe you.

Premier, you are the reason Kitchener doesn’t already have full two-way GO service.

Interjections.

Mr. Michael Harris: No. Listen: In 2010, you were the transportation minister. You cancelled the project. Now, nearly four years later, you claim you want to undo your broken promise, but only after allowing another two years to pass.

Premier, do you really think it’s fair to coerce the residents of Waterloo region into voting for you by promising the same GO Transit commitment that you cancelled nearly four years ago?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

Premier.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Well, I remember very clearly being with the Minister of Government Services when we announced the GO train service to Kitchener–Waterloo. I remember very clearly the enthusiasm for that.

I know that, as I said, the business community and the elected officials yesterday were very pleased that by the end of 2016, Metrolinx expects to add four additional trains, two in the morning and two in the afternoon, to serve the Kitchener station, and that that is a concrete move forward to implementing full-day, two-way GO.

Since 2003, this government has invested $19.3 billion in public transit, $9.1 billion in GO Transit. Under the previous Conservative government, between 1999 and 2003, there was virtually no money invested in GO Transit. There was no expansion of service.

The fact is, we are listening to the concerns of people in this province. We know that integrated transportation systems are what is needed, and we are delivering those and we will continue to do that.

PAN AM GAMES

Mr. Paul Miller: My question is to the Premier. The people of Hamilton are increasingly alarmed about the Ministry of Transportation’s proposal to close portions of the Burlington Skyway this summer. Ministry staff suggest that the closures will take place overnight on 18 weekends and affect the Toronto-bound traffic. The proposal suggests that closures will take place between this spring and the fall of 2016.

Has the ministry been told that the province is hosting the Pan/Parapan Am Games next summer and that the venues include Welland and Hamilton?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Finance.

Hon. Charles Sousa: I appreciate the member’s comments in regard to the Pan/Parapan American Games, something that’s going to be a tremendous opportunity for tourism, attractions and, more importantly, infrastructure spending.

I understand the concerns you have in regard to transit and getting people around the greater Golden Horseshoe. It’s a valid concern. It’s one that we’re addressing here with our Minister of Transportation as well as our minister responsible for security, ensuring that people in the province are safe and ensuring that we move people more appropriately and more effectively. That will require some amendments and some changes to some of the lanes and some of the closures in the meantime.

But it’s going to be an investment in our future, and Ontarians are going to be proud of their athletes performing in the Pan Am Games. They’re going to be proud that they’re going to have venues, community centres, auditoriums and stadiums like never before. That is the legacy that’s going to be left to this province.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Paul Miller: I don’t know what that has got to do with the bridge. But anyways, not only will these closures have a significant impact on the citizens of greater Hamilton; they will negatively impact our tourism partners as well.

With concerns raised by city councillors in Hamilton about the rerouted traffic impact on our beach neighbourhood, which has an 80-year-old lift bridge, during the nighttime closures, there is also concern about the impact of the daytime closures, should winds reach 85 kilometres an hour at times on that bridge.

I don’t recall any consultation with me or my staff or the city of Hamilton about this proposal. I’m gravely concerned about the impact on our citizens, our tourists and our Pan/Parapan Am Games participants.

Will the Premier step back from this proposal until full consultation takes place and real consideration is given to the impact on Hamiltonians, tourism, the Pan/Parapan Am Games and our Hamilton council?

Hon. Charles Sousa: Actually, I attended a number of the announcements in Hamilton when we introduced the refu