Manitoba Hansard — 2 October 2019 (Sitting 3, 42nd Legislature, 1st Session)

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Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

First Session – Forty-Second Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Myrna Driedger Speaker Vol. LXXIII No. 3 - 1:30 p.m., Wednesday, October 2, 2019 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-Second Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ADAMS, Danielle Thompson NDP ALTOMARE, Nello Transcona NDP ASAGWARA, Uzoma Union Station NDP BRAR, Diljeet Burrows NDP BUSHIE, Ian Keewatinook NDP CLARKE, Eileen, Hon. Agassiz PC COX, Cathy, Hon. Kildonan-River East PC CULLEN, Cliff, Hon. Spruce Woods PC DRIEDGER, Myrna, Hon. Roblin PC EICHLER, Ralph, Hon. Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FIELDING, Scott, Hon. Kirkfield Park PC FONTAINE, Nahanni St. Johns NDP FRIESEN, Cameron, Hon. Morden-Winkler PC GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib.

GOERTZEN, Kelvin, Hon. Steinbach PC GORDON, Audrey Southdale PC GUENTER, Josh Borderland PC GUILLEMARD, Sarah Fort Richmond PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC ISLEIFSON, Len Brandon East PC JOHNSON, Derek Interlake-Gimli PC JOHNSTON, Scott Assiniboia PC KINEW, Wab Fort Rouge NDP LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAGIMODIERE, Alan Selkirk PC LAMONT, Dougald St. Boniface Lib. LAMOUREUX, Cindy Tyndall Park Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas-Kameesak NDP LINDSEY, Tom Flin Flon NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Malaya Notre Dame NDP MARTIN, Shannon McPhillips PC MOSES, Jamie St.

Vital NDP MICHALESKI, Brad Dauphin PC MICKLEFIELD, Andrew Rossmere PC MORLEY-LECOMTE, Janice Seine River PC NAYLOR, Lisa Wolseley NDP NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC PALLISTER, Brian, Hon. Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine, Hon. Midland PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Turtle Mountain PC REYES, Jon Waverley PC SALA, Adrien St. James NDP SANDHU, Mintu The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron, Hon. Springfield-Ritchot PC SMITH, Andrew Lagimodière PC SMITH, Bernadette Point Douglas NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Vérendrye PC SQUIRES, Rochelle, Hon. Riel PC STEFANSON, Heather, Hon.

Tuxedo PC TEITSMA, James Radisson PC WASYLIW, Mark Fort Garry NDP WHARTON, Jeff, Hon. Red River North PC WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC

177 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, October 2, 2019 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Madam Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee to frame such laws as may tend to the welfare and prosp erity of our province. Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may seek it with wisdom and know it with certainty and accomplish it perfectly for the glory and honour of Thy name and for the welfare of all our people. Amen. Please be seated.

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 200–The Legislative Assembly Amendment and Legislative Assembly Management Commission Amendment Act Mr. Dougald Lamont (St. Boniface): I move, seconded by the member for Tyndall Park (Ms. Lamoureux), that Bill 200, The Legislative Assembly Amendment and Legislative Assembly Management Commission Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l'Assemblée législative et la

Loi sur la Commission de régie de l'Assemblée législative, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Lamont: This is a bill that's designed to modernize and address an antiquated definition of official party status that we hope to –[interjection]– and with it we hope to–we believe will enhance democracy and freedom of speech in this, the House. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order, please. Order. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Committee reports? TABLING OF REPORTS Hon.

Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, I'm pleased to table the University of Manitoba Annual Financial Report for 2019. Hon. Scott Fielding (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, it's my pleasure to rise today in the Assembly to table the Manitoba enabling and other appropriations 2018-19 annual report. It's my pleasure to rise today in the Assembly to table volume 1, 2 and 3 of the Public Accounts for fiscal year ending March 31st, 2019. Hon. Eileen Clarke (Minister of Indigenous and Northern Relations): Good afternoon, Madam Speaker.

I'm pleased to table the 2019 Annual Progress Report for The Path to Reconciliation Act for the Department of Indigenous and Northern Relations. Hon. Jeff Wharton (Minister of Municipal Relations): Good afternoon, Madam Speaker. I'm pleased to table the reports of the 2018 -2019 annual report for the Manitoba Water Services Board. MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS Madam Speaker: The honourable Minister for Status of Women –and I would indicate that the required 90 minutes notice was provided in accordance with rule 26(2). Breast Cancer Awareness Month Hon.

Rochelle Squires (Minister responsible for the Status of Women): I'm proud to recognize –our government is proud to recognize that October is Breast Cancer Awareness Month. The current five -year survival rate is now 87 per cent, due in large part to research advance- ments that have improved early detection, diagnosis and treatment. But there's still more work to do. Breast cancer continues to be the most commonly diagnosed cancer and the second leading cause of cancer -related death among Canadian women. One in eight Canadian women will be diagnosed with breast cancer in her lifetime.

An estimated 26,300 Canadian women–or 72 a day–and 230 men will be diagnosed this year. All of us know someone who is dealing with breast cancer.

178 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 2, 2019 The Canadian Cancer Society would remind us that Breast Cancer Awareness Month is about more than just raising awareness of breast cancer. It is about joining a collective of Canadians who are proving that life is bigger than breast cancer. This collective helps fund the best breast cancer research, provides the largest cancer support system in the country and advocates on behalf of all Canadians for important societal change. Due to ongoing research, the breast cancer death rate has dropped by 44 per cent since the late 1980s.

An emerging area of research is around breast density. Some women have dense breast tissue and therefore may benefit from additional screening benefits. Our government is working towards making sure that all women are informed of this issue. Thank you to Dense Breasts Manitoba for raising awareness on this issue, and our government commends them for the work that they do. I would like to remind all of my colleagues to get screened and that this year's CIBC Run for the Cure will take place on Sunday, October 6th, and I hope to see many of you there.

Let's work together to create a world where we no longer lose our mothers, our daughters, our sisters, our wives and grandmothers to breast cancer. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Ms. Malaya Marcelino (Notre Dame): Breast cancer is the most frequently diagnosed type of cancer in Manitoba amongst women. This year, 850 women in Manitoba will be diagnosed with breast cancer and 180 of us will die of this disease. Every family has been touched by cancer, my best friend included. She was recently diagnosed with breast cancer and she is going in for surgery later this month.

She's a stay -at-home mom and supports two young children aged five and seven. This disease places a heavy burden on many Manitoban families, and I know it will for my dear friend. We know that women living with breast cancer need affordable and accessible health -care services, but this government's he alth-care cuts have put that care at risk.

This government cancelled plans for a new CancerCare Manitoba facility, cut the Mature Women's Centre, which treated young cancer survivors, among other patients, and made cuts to CancerCare's mobile breast cancer screening services that led to last- minute appointment cancellations. When we talk about Breast Cancer Awareness Month, it is important that we also talk about cuts that make it harder for women in the province to be diagnosed and treated.

I urge everyone to take some time this month to reflect on how we can be part of this fight against breast cancer, whether it's on their own cancer journey or that of a loved one. I encourage other members to do the same. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Tyndall Park, seeking leave? Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): Yes, Madam Speaker, I'm seeking leave to speak in response to the minister's statement. Madam Speaker: Does the member have leave to respond to the ministerial statement? [Agreed] Ms. Lamoureux: I stand today to acknowledge Breast Cancer Awareness Month.

Breast cancer is the most common form of cancer faced by women, and on average, 70 women a day are diagnosed here in Canada. And, Madam Speaker, although breast cancer rates are high, the rate of survival continues to improve thanks to advancements in research at institutes such as CancerCare Manitoba. * (13:40) The crucial work performed by researchers, nurses, doctors and other health professionals to assist Manitobans on their journey cannot be understated. Madam Speaker, there are many ways we can be supporting breast cancer awareness this month. Here’s kind of a cool example.

A local pool hall, which happens to be in Tyndall Park, is doing what they can to raise fu nds for the breast cancer fight. Starting yesterday and continuing for the next two years, Madam Speaker, Alfie's restaurant, lounge and billiards on Keewatin will be donating $5 for every hour that one of their six pink pool tables are used, to CancerCare Manitoba. Now, when I say pink pool tables, I mean pink pool tables. Alfie's converted the felt on its tables to pink. They brought in pink chalk and they even changed the 8-ball to a pink ball with a little bow on it.

Madam Speaker, I want to thank the minister for bringing forward this statement and I want to applaud Alfie, the owner of Alfie's, for taking this initiative and encouraging those around to do what they can to support CancerCare Manitoba. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

October 2, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 179 MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Childhood Cancer Awareness Month Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Lac du Bonnet): Madam Speaker, today I have the great honour of acknowledging Bill 209, a bill I worked hard to accomplish that holds a special place in my heart. Bill 209 proclaimed September as Childhood Cancer Awareness Month. Childhood cancer remains the most common disease -related cause of death in children. Madam Speaker, today six children will be diagnosed with cancer. Today I honour these little warriors and their families: families like Marco and Suzanne Suzio.

Marco and Suzanne's son, Madox, lost his fight with a rare form of a brain tumour on August 8th, 2014. Marco and Suzanne keep Madox's memory alive through a charity organization named in his honour: Madox's Warriors. Most recently Madox's Warriors put on an event on September 3rd, 2019 in Memorial Park. Supporters gathered to place 6,000 yellow flags to bring awareness to childhood cancer month. At this event, I was joined by the member from Radisson, as well as the member from St. Johns. The Suzios are not the only family keeping the spirit of young fighters alive.

The Team Brody Foundation is a not -for-profit organization founded by the parents and family members of Brody Birrell-Gruhn, who passed away September 1st, 2015. The f oundation keeps Brody's memories alive through fundraising events like the Team Brody Foundation kids Halloween party and carving on October 29th from 6 to 8 p.m. at the Earl Grey Community Centre. Abigail Stewart, a childhood cancer survivor, created Abby's Balloons for Childhood Cancer, and this year held a community bake sale on September 28th. Over the last couple of years, Abby has raised over $60,000 in support of childhood cancer research.

These are just a few examples of families doing their part to fight against cancer so that future families do not have to suffer as they have. Madam Speaker, I encourage all honourable members, not just in September, October, today, but each and every day to reach out to those impacted by cancer as well as thei r families and see how you can help in the fight against this terrible illness. Let's kick cancer, Madam Speaker. Valour Community Centre Mr. Adrien Sala (St.

James): Madam Speaker, as we know, community centers are incredibly important resources that p rovide families with access to affordable programs, activities and social supports. I rise today to recognize the contributions of the Valour Community Centre, an exceptional community organization. The Valour Community Centre is composed of three main si tes: Clifton and Isaac Brock, which are located in the West End portion of the St. James constituency, and Orioles. Each site offers a vast range of programing for students, families, and seniors.

For example, they have recently developed a wildflower gar den to help combat the decline of local bee populations. The centres also hold a Valour Rocks music program, which provides free instruction on various instruments, vocals, DJ skills and songwriting lessons to children. The centres allow youth to participate in different sport teams at an affordable rate, and they also have family fun nights, a healthy baby program, senior's engagement, and many more essential programs everyone in the community can benefit from.

Today we are joined in the gallery by E lizabeth Jackimec, president of the board, who has been with the organization for the past 7 years, and I can attest she has worked incredibly hard to advance that organization in our community. If you were to speak with Elizabeth on the true value produced by the Valour Community Centre, she would praise them for creating a space where people can meet their neighbors and build tighter bonds in their community.

She would also how–highlight how the programs they provide are vital to keeping youth in the co mmunity off the streets by keeping them involved in a –positive recreational and leisure activities. Seventy-one years later, the Orioles site continues to be one of Winnipeg's oldest community club locations. However, seven decades also equates to some m uch needed repairs, so for anyone who is willing, Elizabeth made it clear that donations are highly welcomed. Thank you to the Valour Community Centre for strengthening our communities, youth and helping

180 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 2, 2019 maintain our sense of connection in the St. James and Wolseley neighbourhoods. And, Madam Speaker, I'd like to ask for leave to include the name of my guest in Hansard. Madam Speaker: Is there leave to include the names of those guests in Hansard? [Agreed] Elizabeth Jackimec Seine River Constituency Ms. Janice Morley-Lecomte (Seine River): It is an honour to stand before the Chamber today and represent the constituents of Seine River.

As this is the first election after the electoral boundary changes of 2018, I would like to take this opportunity to describe my constituency. Seine River has expanded both in terms of geographic area and cultural diversity. The new riding brings together and harmoniously blends both urban and rural communities and landscapes. La

partie ouest de la circonscription est r iche en histoire. Ceci est clairement démontré par les nombreux sites et monuments de cette région. Le marché de Saint-Norbert, le monastère des Trappistes et le club des aigles ont tous une signification historique qui dépasse de loin les limites de la circonscription. Translation The western part of the constituency has a rich history, made evident by the numerous sites and monuments of the area. The St. Norbert Market, the Trappist Monastery and the Eagles Club each have historic significance going well beyond the boundaries of the constituency.

English The east side of Seine River is home to diverse cultures and long- standing businesses. St. Mary's Road represents a veritable belt of greenery as Winnipeggers come from across the city to purchase the wide variety of plants, shrubs and trees available at the many greenhouses and nurseries located in the area. Seine River is also the proud home of the St. Vital Mustangs and St. Norbert Celtics sports teams.

While this constituency may be geographically defined by the south Perimeter Highway and the Seine and Red rivers respectively, it is ultimately defined by the people and communities which reside within its boundaries: people and communities which I am proud to represent here today as we help move Manitoba forward. Thank you. Flin Flon Constituency Mr. Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): It's an honour to have been re-elected to represent the Flin Flon constituency and so many great people in Flin Flon and northern Manitoba.

There are so many people in Flin Flon who are doing their best to help our community grow and prosper. There is a vibrant arts and culture scene, evi - denced this past weekend with the ever -growing Culture Days lineup of activities. Also, the Blueberry Jam music festival this summer was a huge success. What is really too bad is this PC government that seems to do everything in its power to kill the community, or at the very least, its refusal to support growth in Flin Flon or the North. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. Mr.

Lindsey: Young people do not want to stay or come if they cannot–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Lindsey: –give birth in this community and seniors do not want to stay when they cannot get a doctor or home care. The Pallister government 's continued cuts in health care and Northern patient transportation are driving people away. It speaks volumes about this government's commitment to the North when we saw The Pas in trouble and the government did nothing. Same when the rail line was out going to Churchill and this government did nothing.

And again, when Thompson was losing hundreds of jobs, they would not even allow the community to access funds designed specifically for that purpose. With Flin Flon potentially losing hundreds of jobs, the Pallister government said, business as usual. They said they didn't believe in using tax dollars to help private industry, yet they were more than willing to expend tax dollars for a pea processing plant, for a meat plant in the south, both very succes sful private industries. We certainly do not begrudge the help they are offering farmers with the hay crisis but are tired of the North being ignored.

October 2, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 181 The voice of the North was heard loud and clear this election as all the North rejected the PCs, even their hand- picked candidates. The collective voices from all communities in the North will be heard one way or another, whether this government likes it or not, so it's time for them to listen, respect and support our– Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Dawson Trail. * (13:50) Campaign Volunteer Appreciation Mr.

Bob Lagassé (Dawson Trail): Madam Speaker, I would like to start today by thanking the people of Dawson Trail for putting their trust in me once again to represent them here in the Legislative Assembly. Next, I would like to thank a few volunteers who were key in getting me re- elected: Ted Schellenberg, my official agent; campaign manager, Ian Pfeiffer; sign co -ordinator, Jim Teleglow; volunteer co -ordinator, Mikayla West; sign crew, Garth Deschamps, Sheldon, Christine, J .J., Ty Beckman, Kent Koop, and also–who also helped at the doors along with Christine Wiebe.

Madam Speaker, did you know we also had an official baker? Her name is Diane Schellenberg. It also takes money to run an election. Thank you to the many contributors to our campaign. I can't forget Jen Plett, who, as I have stated in the past, is one of the key persons in getting me into this Chamber. My wife Andrea, thank you for the best –sorry– and I saved the best for last. My wife Andrea, thank you for loving me and supporting me on this crazy adventure of our shared life.

To my son Seth, my daughters Zayne, Eden, Nevailynn–a.k.a. app tech wizard –and my youngest daughter Ahmaris, who were all key in helping at the doors as well as where it was needed, I love you all and thank you for supporting me. To all the volunteers, thank you once again, and, as always, I am humbled by your support and encouragement. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Introduction of Guests Madam Speaker: Prior to oral questions, we have some guests that I would like to introduce to you. Seated in the public gallery we have with us today guests of the honourable Leader of the Official Opposition (Mr.

Kinew): Kathi Avery Kinew, his mom; and Lynn and Bill Balfour, his aunt and uncle. And also in the gallery today we have with us Balwinder Singh Laddi, MLA from the Punjab Assembly, who is the guest of the honourable member for The Maples (Mr. Sandhu). On behalf of all honourable members here, we welcome all of you to the Legislature. I would like to draw attention of members to the Speaker's Gallery where the six individuals who are serving on the Manitoba Legislative Internship Program for the 2019-2020 year are seated.

In accordance with established practices, three interns were assigned to the government caucus and three to the official opposition caucus. Their term of employment is 10 months and they will be performing a variety of research and other tasks for private members. These interns commen ced their assignments September 9th, 2019, and will complete them in June. And they are, working with the government caucus: Ms. Maria Gheorghe, the University of Manitoba; Ms. Kelsey Hrappstead, University of Manitoba; Mr. Declan Moulden, the University of Winnipeg.

And working with the caucus of the official opposition we have: Saio Mansaray of the University of Manitoba; we have Ms. Chishimba Ngulube, of the University of Manitoba; and Ms. Bailey Pelletier of Brandon University. Professor Kelly Saunders of Brandon University is the academic director for the program. The admin- istration of the program on a day -to-day basis is carried out by our Clerk, Patricia Chaychuk, and the caucus representatives on the internship administration committee are the me mber for Riding Mountain (Mr. Nesbitt) and the member for Flin Flon (Mr. Lindsey).

I would like to take this opportunity, on behalf of all members, to congratulate the interns on their appointment to the program, and hope that they will have a very interesting and successful year with the Manitoba Legislative Assembly. Welcome.

182 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 2, 2019 ORAL QUESTIONS Health-Care Service Reform Increase Bed Capacity Request Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): I want to take a moment to congratulate and welcome ou r interns and also wish them a great year of study here. Hopefully, they do learn a thing or two from the Legislative Assembly. I also want to take a moment to acknowledge federal NDP leader, Jagmeet Singh, who confronted some racism in a very public way earlier today, and yet continues to show grace and courage as he breaks down barriers for all of us in this great country of Canada.

The question that I have for the First Minister today has to do with the ongoing cuts to health care. Through the inquiries that we've launched in the Committee of Supply and elsewhere, we now know that his government has seen fit to cut 131 beds from our health- care system. That's 131 fewer places in hospitals for patients to get care. Will the First Minister admit that his plan for cuts is failing and commit to building new bed spaces across Manitoba? Hon.

Brian Pallister (Premier): Well, I'll just add to my honourable colleague's comments of welcome to our interns and say that we've been blessed in this Chamber for many, many years to have had the support–inclusive involvement of many through the internship programs. Some have gone on to, even, service as members of the Legislative Assembly. So I welcome our interns. I wish them the very best in the experience that they've begun. As far as breaking down barriers is concerned, Mr.

Singh has also positioned himself in support of a provincial veto against any projects of interprovincial nature and that is counterproductive to building a nation. We wouldn't have a national railway if Mr. Singh's positions were adopted by any sub- sequent federal government, whether he was part of a coalition or solely in charge. And so it's a dangerous position for one to support. We wouldn't have a national highway; we wouldn't be able to build interprovincial connections in terms of hydro energy and the like.

So in terms of advocacy for a federal party, I would ask if the member considers seriously how counterproductive it would be to support anyone who wanted to give provinces a veto over national projects. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: Well, it's no surprise that the Premier doesn't want to answer the question about closing 131 beds in hospitals in Winnipeg because such a move is one of the reasons that the wait -times situation is getting worse across the Winnipeg health region. It's one of the reasons that St.

Boniface emer - gency room, one of the most important emergency rooms in our province, is routinely turning patients away now, for the first time ever. That's happening multiple times a week under this Premier's leadership. We see that there's less resources. In addition to 130 fewer bed spaces there's $17 million less being invested in these acute- care centres. There's $4.6 million in long -term care that has been cut. In total we see that the approach to cutting health care is failing Manitobans, it's failing patients and it's failing seniors, Madam Speaker.

Will the Premier commit to stopping th e health- care cuts and opening new bed spaces in acute -care centres across Manitoba today? Mr. Pallister: Well, the failure, Madam Speaker, is on the part of the leader opposite, who continues to spout tired rhetoric that is misrepresenting the facts of the situation. We've invested more in health care than any previous government in the history of the country. We focus our investments on areas of high priority within health care and in health care specifically – almost $400 million more in health care this year alone budgeted than the NDP ever did.

It's not a question of investment; it's a question of strategic investment. That's why we're investing in things like transition home programs, community programs, why we are moving to reduce wait times to get into PCHs, not lengthen them as happened under the NDP. So while the member concerns himself with tired rhetoric, we concern ourselves with getting better results. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: Madam Speaker, we have a growing population in Manitoba.

We have an aging baby boomer population in Manitoba, and we have many Manitobans with unique and complex health- care needs like multiple sclerosis or type 2 diabetes.

October 2, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 183 What this all creates is an increasing demand for places for people to receive health care. That means there's a need for more beds in our health-care system, and yet even though those pressures are increasing, this Premier has cut the amount of bed spaces, the amount of places where average, everyday Manitobans go to receive health care from nurses, from health -care aides, from other health -care professionals. That's why they can't recruit new nurses.

That's why wait times are increasing, because they've reduced the amou nt of spaces for Manitobans to get health care. This plan is failing. Will the Premier abandon these cuts and today announce new bed spaces to be added across our health-care system? * (14:00) Mr. Pallister: Well, the member, again, demonstrates his failure to understand that results are what matter. When patients are concerned with health care, they're not concerned with rhetoric; they're concerned with getting the results they need, the care they need.

The member speaks about the number of beds, but he doesn't speak about the incredible waits. I remember my mother waiting for months and months to get into a PCH, and I know that those wait times for PCHs now have diminished by over 80 per cent. That means that people –seniors, for example–who need a personal-care home placement can get it. The member speaks about the number of beds, but he doesn't speak about the actual results that matter to people and the ability to get into a bed when one needs to is more important than the rhetoric of the member opposite will ever be.

This is a political organization opposite that jacked up taxes on seniors on this province, even proposed adding death taxes to the list of already punitive taxes, that doesn't support taking the education tax off property that forc es seniors out of their own homes. The member should get with the program. We're on it and we're making life better for Manitoba seniors and those who need health care are getting it. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a new question. Addiction and Mental Health Provincial Funding Mr.

Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Madam Speaker, the smell of smoke still lingers over the Osborne Bridge as we meet here this afternoon. There was a fire which consumed a good portion of that tent camp that's been located under that bridge for a number of months now. Now, I want to congratulate and thank first responders while we await news about the status of injuries. There may have been some. But this does speak to the emerging issue of tent villages around our city and province, which has been driven, exacerbated by the meth crisis that we face here.

There are numerous issues that we need this government to act on, but this is perhaps one of the more urgent. Through our inquiries this week we have uncovered that this government has actually cut $15.5 million from community and mental health supports, even at a time that this meth and addictions and mental health 'crisen'–crisis worsens. So my question for the Premier is: Why did he cut 15 and a half million from mental health even as he's receiving millions more from the federal government every year to fight the addictions crisis? Hon.

Brian Pallister (Premier): While the smoke didn't end over the Osborne Bridge . It continues to hover around the head of the member opposite when he speaks about cuts that haven't occurred and spouts facts that are false upon investigation. He discredits himself with his allegations, Madam Speaker.

The fact is that we have a Safer Streets, Safer Lives program under way that's the result of an incredible amount of effort and work and collab- oration that will focus not only on additional treatment in respect of meth and other drugs and other addiction issues, but will also focus on preventative efforts that were never undertaken in 17 years by the New Democratic Party. Educational programs for drug prevention were never, ever updated during their entire four terms in office, Madam Speaker. These are important investments.

These are important, progressive steps we're taking, and we'll continue to take them because we understand that solving the concerns of these issues is more important than just criticizing the actions of others. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question.

184 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 2, 2019 Transitional Housing Support Mr. Kinew: So quick point of fact: the 15-and-a-half- million-dollar cut to mental health was contained in the documents that this Premier's government tabled in this very House this week, Madam Speaker. Transitional housing is an approach that could help alleviate the current situation that we're seeing. Transitional housing could support people as they get out of tents and into more stable housing situations.

It can also help somebody who's transitioning out of a treatment program to go back into sobriety in the community with additional supports like mental health supports, like counselling, like even community living sort of supports; and yet this transitional housing piece is sorely missing from any current plan that the government has offered. Game of Thrones fans like to say that winter is coming, and we know that that's the situation here.

So will the Premier stand in his place today to announce transitional housing supports for people who are living in the tent villages like the one that caught fire this morning? Mr. Pallister: Well, the member's credibility and that of his party has been diminished considerably when one considers that they neglected to cost out in their platform a few weeks ago over $1 billion of spending. You know, the fact is that the member is making suggestions–that we're already acting upon–that have come from others. I appreciate his suggestions because, as I've said to him, I think this is a nonpartisan issue.

We need to proceed in a way that is progressive and productive and that achieves the results that we are attempting to achieve together. We're all in this, and the fact is we have collaborated with many others as well –rural and municipal partners, experts in the field –and continue to take significant and necessary steps and make the significant and necessary investments to achieve progress on this file. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Social Housing Units Housing First Model Mr.

Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): The results of the Premier's time in office are simple. They have built zero social housing units. They have cut $170 million from the budget of Manitoba Housing, Madam Speaker. Now, we know people in the community have many of the answers that are needed. What we need is the political will on the part of the Premier to implement these solutions. One of them is to use the Housing First model. What the Housing Fir st model proposes to do is to put people into housing first.

Then, once that person is stabilized, they can be tied into other supports like addictions treatment or perhaps the help in rejoining the labour force. But, again, it's all about the Housing Firs t model. We've got a ton of expertise in the city about this, a ton of community leaders. Now, we know that the $170- million cut to Manitoba Housing was a mistake, so will the Premier commit not only to adding more resources to social housing but also to implementing them with the Housing First model in mind? Hon.

Brian Pallister (Premier): Well, Madam Speaker, we are investing more significantly in housing than ever before. And the fact of the matter is we were left an incredible mess by the previous NDP government. The member needs to take responsibility for and accept over $1 billion in deferred maintenance on public housing–$1 billion , Madam Speaker. And we're investing to fix up our housing, which was left in an incredible state of disrepa ir by an NDP government that had four terms to get it right and managed to get it wrong time after time. The member says the problems are simple.

That reveals the fact that his simple solutions simply won't work, Madam Speaker. They're not simple; they're complex issues, and we're dealing with them. We're dealing with them in a co-operative and collaborative fashion, and that is the way we will continue to deal with them. Manitoba's Civil Service Staffing Level Mr. Mark Wasyliw (Fort Garry): Madam Speaker, the Pallister government has cut 50 per cent more jobs from the civil servants than they had pledged. Worse still, they kept that fact hidden 'til after the election. Just last year, nearly 900 positions were lost.

This is of deep concern to us and t o anyone who values effective civil service. Manitoba has lost a generation of talented people, and they aren't being replaced. Why has the minister and the Premier made such short-sighted cuts to our civil service?

October 2, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 185 Hon. Scott Fielding (Minister responsible for the Civil Service): I wish–I want to welcome the member to the Chamber. I have a feeling he'll fit right in with the NDP. I can say a part of our commitments in terms of have the right sizing, have a right amount of employees–there is 97 per cent of the people that aren't with the civil service anymore–were done through retirement, through things like attrition. We think that makes sense.

And if you look at our government versus a government such as Saskatchewan, there's over 1,000 employees less working for the government of Saskatchewan–there is in Manitoba. We also think as a government we want to grow the economy, to have private sector jobs a part of our strategy moving forward, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Fort Garry, on a supplementary question. Mr. Wasyliw: After the Filmon government completed their round of cuts, Manitoba was left with 13,305 people–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Wasyliw: –in the civil service.

Today – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Wasyliw: –there are 466 less people working for the Pallister–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Wasyliw: –government than in 1999. Manitoba's population has grown by 150,000 people. Our population's more diverse ; our problems are more complex. Why have they run a wrecking ball through the civil service at a time when we need our civil service more than ever? Mr. Fielding: Our government has put together a comprehensive jobs plan, a Manitoba Works! plan. We're going to create 40,000–30,000 private -sector jobs in the economy. We think that's important.

We know the NDP are the only party that really believes some sort of global recession apparently is going to happen by the amount of employees that Manitoba–the M anitoba government faces. We also know that there's some new faces over there at the NDP, but it's the same old rhetoric that's a part of it. * (14:10) Our government is committed and we're getting results for Manitobans, and the services that we're getting, whether it be health care, whether it be social services, whether that be 'unconny', whether that be in growing the economy, Madam Speaker –is second to none to any province within the country.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Fort Garry, on a final supplementary. Minimum Wage Manitoba's Ranking Mr. Mark Wasyliw (Fort Garry): The Premier (Mr. Pallister) and his ministers have cut harder and faster than they publicly committed. They've kept information hidden from view during an election. They clearly don't value our civil service. But it's not just public workers that the Pallister government is going after. Their recent changes to minimum wages are simply not enough for working people to get ahead. We need a $15 minimum wage and a government committed to working for people.

Why does the minister want to keep Manitoba as the second lowest minimum wage province in Canada? Hon. Scott Fielding (Minister of Finance): The Manitoba economy is resilient, no matter how much the NDP are routing for the Manitoba economy not to grow and prosper. I can tell you, when you look at the Manitoba economy, we are leading the nation right now in private sector capital investment. There's more jobs coming to Manitoba. Permit fees, Madam Speaker, a sign of how the economy is growing, is growing by over 15 per cent. Housing starts are at a 30-year high, over 34 per cent higher than the NDP government.

This is a strategy that's going to grow the private sector economy and create jobs for Manitobans. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. Early Learning and Child-Care Programs Request for Funding Increase Ms. Danielle Adams (Thompson): Early child-care educators play a key role in our children's develop - ment, but it's sad to see that this PC government does not feel the same way.

186 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 2, 2019 Not only have they frozen operating funds for the last three years, the Department of Families' 2018-2019 annual report clearly indicates the little priority this government has on our children. The minister h as cut $6.3 million from its financial assistance and grants to early learning and child -care programs. Will the minister reverse these cuts and increase the funding to Manitoba child-care centres? Hon. Heather Stefanson (Minister of Families): I want to welcome the new member for Thompson to the Legislature and to her new critic role, Madam Speaker.

But–she may be a new face here, Madam Speaker, but it's the same old, same old NDP rhetoric. And that's unfortunate because we have committed to more than 3,000 new child- care spaces since we came to office. And with our 20 new high school–our 20 new school builds, that will also include more than 1,500 more child-care spaces in Manitoba. That's what Manitoba's families want, and that's what we're delivering for them. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Thompson, on a supplementary question. Children with Special Needs Inclusion Support Program Funding Ms.

Danielle Adams (Thompson): The minister and the previous minister had stood i n this House and denied over and over again that they had cut–been cuts made to the inclusion support program, but the numbers tell a different story, Madam Speaker. There are less children with special needs receiving inclusion supports in early child care in last year and the year before. In fact, there are less children receiving–with special needs receiving inclusion supports than in the last 10 years with–despite a growing demand for these services.

Why has the minister misled the House, and why would she take a knife to such an–important supports for the most vulnerable in our society? Hon. Heather Stefanson (Minister of Families): I thank the member for the question. And, of course, the inclusion support program is a valuable component, Madam Speaker, of Manitoba's early learning child -care system, and ensures that early learning and child -care programs are inclusive of children with very –with varying needs across our province.

And that's why our government is committed to increasing accessi bility to early learning and child care, including options for children with disabilities and/or emotional and behavioural needs. So, Madam Speaker, as part of Manitoba's action plan under the Canada-Manitoba Early Learning and Child Care Agreement, the department is piloting a new dual -stream service and funding approach focused on co- ordinating services to better meet the additional support needs of children with disabilities. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Thompson, on a final supplementary.

Services that Support Families Funding Concerns Ms. Danielle Adams (Thompson): Madam Speaker, under this government, fewer children are receiving the supports they need. Daycares do not have the supports they need. Manitoba families are not getting the supports they need. Everyone is fearing the cuts that are coming under this government. Will the minister reverse her cuts to children today? Hon. Heather Stefanson (Minister of Families): Well, I would remind the member opposite that we inherited a mess, when it comes to child care in Manitoba, from the previous NDP government.

In fact, under their watch the child -care wait list more than doubled, and we're in the process of trying to clean up that mess. Again, we've committed to 3,100 more child-care spaces, with the build of –from the Department of Education. The Minister of Education has announced 20 new schools in Manitoba, Madam Speaker. That will be more than 1,500 more spaces for child care in Manitoba. Where they failed Manitoba child care and Manitoba families, we will deliver for them. French Language Services Government Position Mr. Adrien Sala (St.

James): Madame la Présidente, je suis fier et ça me fait grand plaisir, en tant que francophone, de poser ma première question dans cette Assemblée en français au sujet des affaires francophones. On apprend dans le ra pport le plus récent des comptes publics que le montant d'argent accordé à la santé en français a été réduit de plus de 200 000 $.

October 2, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 187 C'est une grande réduction pour les services essentiels pour les aînés et les communautés francophones. Pourquoi la ministr e a- t-elle coupé plus de 200 000 $ pour la santé en français au Manitoba? Translation I am proud and have the great pleasure, as a francophone, to ask my first question in this Assembly in French, on the subject of francophone affairs. We learn in the latest Public Accounts report that the amount allocated to health care in French was reduced by over $200,000.

This is a major reduction in essential services for the elderly and for francophone communities. Why did the minister cut over $200,000 for health care in French in Manitoba? Hon. Rochelle Squires (Minister responsible for Francophone Affairs): On a fait plus pour la communauté franco-manitobaine dans notre première session que le NPD a fait dans une décennie. Translation We have done more for the Franco-Manitoban community during our first session than the NDP did in a decade. English Our government has done a lot to enhance the francophone community in the province of Manitoba.

We instituted Bill 5, which gave the francophone vitality act–brought that into legislation. We're also the first government to bring in French language service reporting requirements for all government agencies and entities. We're moving forward on the vitality of the francophone community where the NDP failed. Madam Spe aker: The honourable member for St. James, on a supplementary question. Mr. Sala: Madame la Présidente, il y a une claire tendance avec ce gouvernement. Les services pour les francophones ne sont pas une priorité.

On voit dans le rapport du budget provinc ial que le gouvernement Pallister a coupé plus d'un million de dollars pour les services de traduction. En plus, on voit une réduction globale de 600 000 $ pour le Secrétariat pour les francophones. Ça représente une réduction de 30 pour cent. Pourquoi est-ce que les services pour les francophones sont une tellement faible priorité? Translation Madam Speaker, there is an obvious trend with this government. Services for francophones are not a priority. We see in the provincial budget report that the Pallister government cut over a million dollars in translation services.

Moreover, we see an overall decrease of $600,000 for the Francophone Affairs Secretariat. This represents a 30 per cent reduction. Why are services for francophones such a low priority? Ms. Squires: Merci beaucoup, Madame la Présidente, pour la question. Translation Thank you, Madam Speaker, for the question. English The member is misrepresenting the facts on our government's commitment to the francophone community. In fact, for example, our Bill 5 was this– largest significant commitment to the community since the 1998 Chartier report.

They had 17 years to act in the–on the betterment of the francophone community, and they failed. Where they failed the francophone community, our government's getting action. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. James, on a final supplementary. Bureau de l'education française Assistant Deputy Minister Position Mr. Adrien Sala (St. James): La communauté francophone au Manitoba n'oublie pas le fait que le gouvernement a supprimé le poste de sous -ministre adjoint du bureau de langue française il y a quelques années. La demande pour les services par les étudiants francophones ne cesse de grandir.

C'est une claire demande de la communauté de restaurer ce poste. Est-ce que le gouvernement va écouter? Est -ce qu'il va restaurer le poste de sous -ministre adjoint du bureau de la langue française? Translation Manitoba's francophone community has not forgotten the fact that the government eliminated the assistant

188 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 2, 2019 deputy minister position for the Bureau de l'éducation française a few years ago. The service demand from francophone students keeps growing. This is the community clearly demanding that this position be restored. Will the government listen ? Will it restore the assistant deputy minister position for the Bureau de l'éducation française? Hon.

Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Education and Training): The member will know that we created a position that now has direct access for francophone issues, when it comes to students, to the minister: they now have direct access, which didn't exist before, Madam Speaker. The community understood that and I think was pleased with that. Not only that, we've also committed to a number of new schools when it comes to the francophone schools, not the least of which is in Transcona. As we announced during the campaign, there'll be three additional schools for BEF.

And that was very well received by the francophone community, Madam Speaker. North End Treatment Plant Upgrades Environmental Licence Renewal Ms. Lisa Naylor (Wolseley): Madam Speaker, last year the Pallister government urged the City of Winnipeg to use funds that were committed to the North End treatment plant on–and to spend them on other initiatives. And now it appears that the City will not meet the conditions of their environmental licence. * (14:20) We're concerned that the Pallister government is not taking the health of Lake Winnipeg seriously.

Will the minister be amending the environmental licence and what steps will she take to ensure that the North End treatment plant is upgraded in a timely fashion? Hon. Rochelle Squires (Minister of Sustainable Development): I'd like to congratulate the member for Wolseley on her election and welcome her to her new role. On the health of Lake Winnipeg our government has taken strong action, including a historic $100-million investment in cleaning up the wetlands. We know that the wetlands are going to be the kidneys of that lake and w e are going to be getting action on Lake Winnipeg.

I'd like to remind the members opposite that they– under their fractured leadership, Lake Winnipeg became the most threatened lake in North America, if not the world, under their watch. That is their legacy. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Wolseley, on a supplementary question. Ms. Naylor: Madam Speaker, I am pleased to hear agreeance from the minister that the health of Lake Winnipeg is under threat and needs to be healed, but the Pallister gov ernment pushed to divert funds needed for that upgrade and they haven't committed the necessary funds to see this project through.

Now the City of Winnipeg has indicated that they will not be able to meet the conditions of their environmental licence, an d the minister will have to make a decision about whether to amend that licence and for how long. And, most importantly, will her government put the resources forward to ensure that the North End treatment plant is upgraded? Ms. Squires: Well, Madam Speaker, the facts are clear. In 2003 when the Clean Environment Commission had asked the NDP to take action on Lake Winnipeg and do something about the North End Water Pollution Control Centre, they ignored that recommendation.

In fact, they ignored that recommendation all the way until they were–they left office. Our government has picked up where that government failed to get action on Lake Winnipeg. We've got a series of initiatives to clean up the lake and to clean up the entire watershed in the province of Manitoba that was left in disrepair by the NDP. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Wolseley, on a final supplementary. Ms.

Naylor: Madam Speaker, the minister knows that this summer saw some of the worst algae blooms that Lake Winnipeg has ever seen, and the government has continued to make it easier, not harder, for water to flow from our southern neighbours with no condition on the quality of water flowing to our great lake. And here in our backyard, the minister can't provide me with a basic answer just to the questions I asked: What are those plans? What will the Province be doing to contribute to this challenge? Is she going to amend the environmental licence for the North End treatment plant? What conditions

October 2, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 189 are going to be put on this p roject, and what steps, if any, is her government doing to ensure that this project is completed? Ms. Squires: Our government takes very seriously the mess that the NDP government left –the Lake Winnipeg, and that is why we have made a historic investment in cleaning up the watershed. This investment is being called a game changer by many people–stakeholders and people who are concerned about the clean up of Lake Winnipeg.

And so, while our government is working with all user groups and stakeholders to ge t action on Lake Winnipeg to clean up the mess that the NDP left behind, they continue to avoid the issue, as they did for 17 years when they were in office. Income Inequality EIA Rates Mr. Dougald Lamont (St. Boniface): Just last week Statistics Canad a released some numbers about incomes in Canada. They found the incomes of the top 1 per cent are growing six times faster than incomes for the remaining 99 per cent, and the top are paying less in taxes.

Income is accelerating much faster for those households that already have the most while Manitoba has more people on EIA now than at any time in history: over 71,000 people, and that number has gone up every year since 2008. Does the Premier recognize that his trickle-down economics is failing most Manitobans? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): I would say to the member that he has now reinforced to Manitobans who are following the progress of discussions in this Chamber what they perhaps already knew: that if you want higher taxes, you have the Liberals for that.

The fact of the matter is that by lowering taxes as we have, Madam Speaker, we have left more money with Manitoba families. We have also raised the basic personal exemption and we've adjusted it annually now to inflation, something that was never done under the previous administration. We have also eliminated the scourge of bracket creep which was a nefarious way for the previous government to gather up more taxes from working families by not indexing tax brackets at all.

All of these measures combined have had the effect of slowing the increases that were out of control since the 2005 period, Madam Speaker, in terms of increased application for EIA supports. That being said, we'll continue to work co-operatively with the agencies that want to support low-income Manitobans while making sure that all Manitobans have the opportunity to work themselves and to support themselves and their families. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Boniface, on a supplementary question. Job Creation Unemployment Rate Mr. Dougald Lamont (St.

Boniface): Madam Speaker, there's a saying: the rich get richer while the poor get the picture. Let's recall again, there was a record number of people on EIA in Manitoba: 71,000 people and growing. If this gove rnment created the 40,000 jobs they've promised just for people on EIA there would still be 31,000 people on EII –EIA, quite aside – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Lamont: –from the tens of thousands of other people looking for work. We need more jobs than this government has promised just to keep pace with population growth.

Does the Premier see that if he keeps his promise and creates as few jobs as they have, it means Manitoba's unemployment rate will actually go up? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): Not having had the opportunity or had the experiences of wealth as frequently or as regularly as the member opposite, Madam Speaker, I can only say to him that I understand the challenges faced by low -income Manitobans first -hand, and I understand also very much that my top priority and the top priority of this government is to make life better for people. It is not getting larger office space. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order.

The honourable member for St. Boniface, on a final supplementary. Education Tax Credit Request to Reinstate Mr. Dougald Lamont (St. Boniface): BDO recently released an alarming survey about the financial fragility of Canadians. More than half of Canadians – 53 per cent –are living paycheque to paycheque. For women it is higher: 60 per cent. For one in four Canadians debt is overwhelming. They do not have enough money for their basic needs.

190 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 2, 2019 But this government has been making life more expensive for Manitobans: tuition for students; hydro rates; MPI rates; bus fares; an d tens of thousands of Manitobans faced a huge property tax increase because this government eliminated the education tax credit. Will this government reverse its mistake and reinstate the education tax credit to save money for people who've had to pay o ut more because of this government? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): Well, the member earlier in a

preamble referenced a picture which he clearly does not get. He does not understand that lower taxes leave more money with working families. He believes that higher taxes redistributed by him or some other government, whether federally or provincially, will somehow be the magic bullet that aids all those struggling to make ends meet. Madam Speaker, we understand the challenges are real to working families. T hat's why we have lowered taxes.

That's why we will continue to lower taxes, and because we understand, we will continue to focus on putting more money on the kitchen table while the NDP and the Liberals opposite continue to focus on taking more money off. Provincial Finances Deficit Reduction Mr. Josh Guenter (Borderland): What a great team. When we first formed government in 2016 our PC team made a commitment to Manitobans that we would fix our province's finances. We have kept that commitment and Mani tobans acknowledged this by re-electing the largest back -to-back majorities in our province's history.

The recently released Public Accounts show incredible progress in reducing Manitoba's deficit. Can the Minister of Finance please share this progress with the House and tell us what deficit reduction means for the front-line services we rely on? Hon. Scott Fielding (Minister of Finance): What a great first question for the member. * (14:30) Our government has made unprecedented progress in reducing the deficit to over $163 million from a $358-million pickup. This year is the biggest year-over-year reduction in Manitoba history, Madam Speaker.

Under the ND–former NDP government interests costs in terms of debt servicing became the fourth biggest department of government. In this Public Accounts alone we're saving Manitobans over $34 million in debt -servicing charges because of the hard work of this government. And this is a balanced budget dividend; we can invest more money in health, education and social services, Madam Speaker. Northern Healthy Foods Initiative Provincial Funding Concerns Mr. Ian Bushie (Keewatinook): Madam Speaker, every Manitoban deserves access to healthy, affordable food. Our families in the North are no exception.

But, apparently, the minister and our government do not feel the same way. The past fiscal year the minister underspent the Northern Healthy Foods Initiative by $678,000. This is unacceptable. Our northern families rely on these programs. Why did the minister underspend the Northern Healthy Foods Initiative by $678,000? Hon. Eileen Clarke (Minister of Indigenous and Northern Relations): I welcome the member from Keewatinook to this session.

I think we should go back to May 3rd, 2016, when I was first appointed to this position, and tell everyone what it was like for indigenous communities and our indigenous people in Manitoba and the relationship we had–they had at that time with the government of Manitoba: it didn't exist. I remind you of the relationshi p they had with municipalities: it didn't exist. I would like to go further and tell you about what the people of Manitoba thought about indigenous people; there was no communication. I'm happy to say that a lot's changed since then.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Keewatinook, on a supplementary question. Mr. Bushie: Madam Speaker, not only is the Northern Healthy Foods Initiative an important way for communities to access the nutritious food they need, but the program it funds helps to educ ate families and youth on the importance of healthy foods and gain valuable skills at the same time. That is why it is deeply concerning to see that not only did the

October 2, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 191 minister underspend her budget, she cut the program by $12,000. Why is the minister depri ving our northern communities of vital programs that help them access the nutritious foods they need? Ms. Clarke: I'd like to go further –what happened after May 3rd in 2016.

At that time, we started inviting indigenous leadership into the Manitoba Legis lature to have conversations–conversations about what they were needing and wanting for their community, what had been lacking, why the relationship between government and indigenous communities was not working, why it didn't exist. Those conversations went on for quite some time because we–they did not have to ask us for meetings; everyone was welcomed into our offices. And I'm happy to say that that trend is continuing and it is growing with this government.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Keewatinook, on a final supplementary. Mr. Bushie: Over the last three years, Manitoba families have seen first-hand what happens when this government puts something under review: they cut, Madam Speaker. The department's 2018- 2019 annual report indicates that the northern healthier –healthy foods initiative program is currently under review. And not only is it under review, Madam Speaker, they're cutting the program for other –from our northern communities that rely on it. Manitobans want to know: Are there more cuts to come with this review? Ms.

Clarke: I'm pleased to say there are no cuts within our department, and that was explained clearly during the Committee of Supply. But I would like to go further about–on about our relationships with the indigenous communities, indigenous leadership. Not only is the Department of Indigenous and Northern Relations engaged with the communities, I’m very pleased to say that I'm sure almost every single minister has been to these communities not once, not twice, but many times. They do not have to drive hundreds of miles.

They don't have to fly to Winnipeg and bring one or two people only because that's what's affordable. We go to their communities, and we will continue doing that. We have done that throughout the past three years, and that will only get better as time goes on. Madam Speaker: The time for oral questions has expired. PETITIONS Legislative Assembly–Official Party Status Mr. Dougald Lamont (St. Boniface): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr.

Lamont: –as follows: Fairness and justice are central to democracy and could be expressed in the treatment of parties in the Manitoba Legislature. The clash of democratically expressed ideas in debate is enriched when a greater breadth of possible solutions are considered as a result of the inclusion and fair treatment of more voices which represent substantial proportions of Manitoba's population. The current rules of the Legislative Assembly, which mandate that four MLAs are needed for official party status in Manitoba, were set up many years ago under a different electoral system.

Those rules are referenced as early as 1924 and 1940 and now need to be updated for today's world. Many other provinces have requirements which do not shut out parties that deserve to be recognized as legitimate. For example, there's a requirement for only two MLAs for official party status in Saskatchewan, Newfoundland, and Nova Scotia. Other provinces, such as Nova Scotia, include other parameters than just the number of MLAs. In Nova Scotia the party must have run candidates in three-quarters of their ridings, receive–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr.

Lamont: –at least 2 per cent of the vote and have two elected MLAs. Larger provinces like Alberta, which normally require four MLAs for official party status, have provided official party status to parties with fewer MLAs: two in Alberta and two recently in B ritish Columbia. The Manitoba Liberal Party has had a minimum of three elected MLAs for the past two legislative

192 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 2, 2019 sessions, winning more than 14 per cent of the popular vote in each election. It ran candidates in all 57 constituencies in the most recent e lection and deserves to be recognized as an official party in Manitoba, rather than have its members defined as independent MLAs. The current rules requiring four MLAs for official party status in Manitoba are arbitrary and undermine the most basic tenet s of representative parliamentary democracy: freedom of speech, local representation and the free exchange of ideas.

Democracy in Manitoba is better served if all constituencies can enjoy strong representation and healthy debate in the Legislature. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the Manitoba Legislature to support a change in the Legislative Assembly rules on The Legislative Assembly Act, which will allow the designation of recognized opposition party status with the election of two MLAs for the same party, provided that the party achieve more than 10 per cent of the vote in the most recent provincial election. This has been signed by many Manitobans.

Madam Speaker: In accordance with our rule 133(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House. Grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Government House Leader): Madam Speaker, can you please resolve the House into Committee of Supply to consider departmental Estimates, with the understanding that the Chamber

section will recess at 5 p.m. to consider second reading of Bill 22, and further, that the Chamber

section will be considered to have risen at 6 p.m. if it does not reconvene in the Committee of Supply. Madam Speaker: It has been announced that the House will resolve into Committee of Supply to consider departmental Estimates, with the under - standing that the Chamber

section will recess at 5 p.m. to consider second reading of Bill 22, and further, that the Chamber

section will be considered to have risen at 6 if it does not reconvene in the Committee of Supply. Mr. Deputy Speaker, please take the Chair. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) EXECUTIVE COUNCIL * (14:50) Mr. Chairperson (Dennis Smook): Good afternoon, everyone. Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now resume consideration of the Estimates for Executive Council. As previously mentioned, questioning for this department will proceed in a global manner. The floor is now open for questions. Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): I'd like to just return a bit to one of the issues we were discussing yesterday, which had to do with the job cuts in the civil service. I think we did cover that issue quite extensively yesterday, but there's, I guess, a related issue that I'm curious about and would like to ask the First Minister on.

The reduction in civil service jobs, public sector jobs is well- documented and been reported in the media overnight, but I'm curious to know about the use of consultants in government too. And I thought maybe about asking about consultants who are embedded in government as a starting point. I'm wondering if there's a count that the First Minister can provide about the number of consultants who are embedded in management positions within the government, consultants who may be embedded in other aspects of government departments. Hon.

Brian Pallister (Premier): First of all, just have to get clarification from the member on what he–what does he mean when he refers to the term embedded, what does that mean? Mr. Kinew: So these would be consultants in terms of, I guess, their legal job status, but they would be working within government departments day to day on a regular basis and in some cases maybe not every day but in close proximity. So that's what I'm looking at in terms of embedded. Mr. Pallister: Maybe–I'm sorry to be not getting this, but maybe the member could elaborate a little more.

I can tell him I have been made aware that we disclose all contracts that the government enters into, that those are all proactively disclosed on the government website. So if he was referring to

October 2, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 193 consulting work that is contracte d, that would be the way that's dealt with. Internal in the civil service, I mean, we consult all the time –consult with a wide array of people in various positions. So, in a sense, every civil servant acts as a consultant in some way, so I'm not entirely sure. As far as–perhaps he's referring to consultants in the tech sector, because they are that–in GET, I think, there is–there are tech consultants. So that would be a position that's described as a consultant in that department.

But as far as job descr iption within any other department of government, they're not –civil servants aren't referred to as consultants because they simply–as part of their normal course of work, I would say, they are consulted with at some level on various issues on a regular basis. So I'm not entirely sure I'm getting the meaning of the member, and I don't wish to answer without understanding the question first. Mr. Kinew: Okay, so perhaps we could just maybe back up a few steps and then arrive at a greater mutual agreement of–or understanding of what's meant here.

So there are a number of consulting firms, like KPMG and Deloitte, that have been retained by the government to provide advice in different areas. I'm wondering if the government tracks the amount of money that's paid to consultants and if the First Minister could provide that. Mr. Pallister: Well, that information's all provided on the government website. It's all publicly available. Mr. Kinew: So the Premier (Mr. Pallister) under- stands what's meant by consultant in that context, then–KPMG, Deloitte –and we've got a shared understanding? An Honourable Member: Yes. Outside. Mr.

Kinew: Yes, these are people who, you know, maybe work for a big firm like KPMG and Deloitte; Ernst & Young we've talked about previously in this year's Estimates.

I assume maybe there's smaller actors, people who have corporation partnerships, something like that, and they operate, you know, that way legally speaking –take out contracts with the government, provide services in return. * (15:00) And curious to know whether there's some additional consultants who might fall into that category that may be smaller operations not necessarily reported in the areas being referred to by the First Minister in the previous answer. Mr. Pallister: Well, I –any contract over $10,000 reported in the Public Accounts, it's published. It's available on the website.

So it wouldn't matter whether the person was an individual who structured themselves or their consulting operation as an individual proprietorship or whether they were in a corporate entity of some kind. It still would be disclosed in the accounts and would be made available to the public for their viewing. So that would be the nature of how that information is handled and disclosed. As far as fo r–which begs the question, the member may want to go there–but, you know, how is it handled if it's less than $10,000? And I–that's not a question I'm going to be able to answer without consulting with the clerk.

But as far as for $10,000 or more, that's how it's–and it's made publicly available. It's on the website. Mr. Kinew: Are there many–maybe the best way to ask the question is just to ask whether there are many people working in that capacity under $10,000. An Honourable Member: Sorry, I missed that. Mr. Kinew: Yes, just asking if–I still have the floor, right? Mr. Chairperson: Yes. Mr. Kinew: So just asking whether there are, you know, a significant number of people under that $10,000. Like is it, five, 10, you know? If it's significantly more than that, then maybe we could talk about that for a bit. Mr.

Pallister: Yes. I'm hoping I'm getting more of where the member's going here so I can give him good information. So as he knows, his legislation– I can't– maybe my clerk could help me. What's the name of the legislation? [interjection] The Public Disclosure Act requires the disclosure of all salaries and payments to corporations, firms, individuals, other governments, any government agency, anything $50,000 and over. So that document is available. In addition, any contract on a consultation contract over $10,000 is also listed on that same site. So you can have all that information.

If it's under $10,000, which the member is asking, it used to be the practice, apparently, that that wasn't, shall we say, overseen sufficient to assure the taxpayer that people were getting paid, say, $9,999 several times. Treasury Board didn't oversee that practice.

194 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 2, 2019 So it could have been abused in the past, but no longer is that the case because the Treasury Board has toughened up on their instructions, their requirements to all departments. So now that is not only frowned upon, but forbidden, and so you can't multiple a small contract to somebody to try to get around the disclosure rules anymore, though that wasn't the case in the past. I'll give you–I could talk about Steve Ashton's Tiger Dams for quite a while if the member wants–and he may want me to.

But, that being said, you can't circumvent the rules anymore because Treasury Board has–it's called contract splitting and it's no longer permitted under this government. It was permitted previously. Mr. Kinew: What is the value, the total value of money paid to consultants? Mr. Pallister: I'm told that government doesn't track by subcategory consultants separate from every other type of purchase; they just put all the major purchases on the website and they aren't categorized. You can go on there and see all the payments that are made. It's all public.

As far as the breakdown who–by subcategory, it isn't–it hasn't been done and it isn't done now. But, you know, I'm happy to have the staff pull together a list of all the major contracts. If we get into, sort of, hiring somebody for two days to give advice on a certain issue, we're probably getting into, you know, quite a bit of analysis, and I don't want to undertake to get the department into that degree of work, unless the member is wanting to get into some specific areas of subcategorization or something that I could actually instruct our staff to get into.

If he's in terested in that, I'd be happy to pursue that. Mr. Kinew: Yes, perhaps, but maybe before, we could just examine –I guess that practice is also –it's not tracked as a specific subcategory, consultants; they just appear within other line items, but I'm just wondering, why is that the case? Is there a specific reason why the consultants aren't tracked? That was practice before and continues? Mr.

Pallister: So I'm told that there is a line item for professional services, but that could include other things that may not be germane to what the member's asking me about, which is the consulting specifically, and this is the way it has been tracked. I can give a bit of an overview on the major contracts that were entered into since we became government in '16, and just a–maybe just as a way of overview, these would represent the major contracts that were entered into with consultants.

The procurement modernization contract, which is –will result in an estimated $180 million in cumulative savings over the next five fis cal years, and it is anticipated net annual sustained savings of more than $50 million a year beyond that time, so beyond approximately 2025. That contract was for $6.8 million, again estimated savings, just in the next five fiscal years, of about $180 m illion. So a considerable return on investment in respect of that work is anticipated.

P3 review, and I won't get into the detail unless the member wishes me to, on the P3 concept, except to say that this was a study that was conducted to see if we could save money, and by using a P3 model specific to the schools that were planned at that time, which was seven –we now have an additional 13 schools in the planning process at various stages. So this contract did not result in a P3 being used.

The contract w as for $287,000, but from what we learned through that process of that study, our estimated savings are about $18.6 million, and that's as a consequence of what was learned through the exercise of studying the P3 model. In simplistic terms, we're getting a school for free because of the –I'll say one aspect of this is it's a volume discount. We're catching up on schools that were not constructed over many years; they're needed; the population is growing.

The reality is that we've got, for example, two new schools going into–I see a new member of our Legislature here who I congratulate – and one in his area and one also in The Maples, that are going to be very well needed and appreciated by the people in those areas. The fact that we're able to proceed, that w e must proceed, to build several schools in fairly close proximity –not physically to each other–in terms of time, in fairly close proximity in terms of time, allows us to save considerably on that.

So there again: the consultation process of $187,000; the actual savings, $18.6 million. * (15:10) The KPMG study, the member is familiar with, for Health, costs there, approximately $700,000; estimated savings, over $1 billion. WRHA wait times, for example, we've saved approximately, so far, about 43 years of wait times, cumulative, for Manitobans versus August 16. So that's a significant achievement; it's about approximately 380,000 hours less than Manitobans have spent in the last two years we have data available prior to the last two of the previous administration.

October 2, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 195 So we have had significant investments made in consulting and expertise, that has already resulted in savings, that will result in ongoing savings to the people of Manitoba. This allows us to redirect those savings into greater investments in the things that matter most to Manitobans. I have one minute remaining. I can also say that on FleetNet, I can speak more about FleetNet in a moment, and Pineland Nursery.

These were two other examples where consultants were employed and the savings derived from the consultants' input are significant multiples of the cost of the consultant, to put it mildly. Mr. Kinew: Are there any targets or caps around the use of consultants across government? A target being, you know, is there a certain amount that the government is looking to use, like, maybe, like, one per the M area, or is there a cap like, no more than X number per department? Just curious if there's any sort of criteria governing the use of consultants. Mr.

Pallister: I would say to the member, base d on the numbers I've just shared with him, I would think it would be, and given the significant multiples of the investment that have been achieved already in terms of savings internally by reducing duplication, waste, overlap by increasing efficiencies i n our organiza - tional structures, it wouldn't be prudent or wise to suggest we should somehow cap the number of consultants that are employed. That being said, we are –we did inherit consi - derable challenges in a number of departments.

In terms of mismana gement, there were abundant examples, and so, in facing the challenge of address - ing that mismanagement, we did feel it appropriate in these cases I've just outlined and some others to utilize the expertise of those who have a vast understanding of what be st practices may be in other jurisdictions around the world, around the country. And so I guess I'm, in

summary, I'm saying we're cleaning up a mess, and we continue to. And as we do that, we use the best minds we can find to help us. I would also emphasi ze, though, that in many, many other areas, we use existing staff and their expertise and experience to assist us. And that is as it should be. We have people in our civil service that have great expertise, great range of expertise. That was evidenced in a number of the projects that we prepared as a consequence of the rushed legalization of cannabis by the federal government.

We had numerous departments assisting us and internal expertise was used there in the Department of Justice, Department of Familie s, Department of Health, and various others, Sport, Culture, and Heritage as well, to assist us in getting ready to go and in launching our strategies around the legalization that Ottawa brought to bear last year. So that's just one example where we've ut ilized internal staff expertise. There are many others. That respect for the people who work within the civil service is important, not just to have, but to utilize.

And to demonstrate that, we launched our ideas fund, for example, which is an exceptional initiative that shows us leading the way across the country and actually going to people who work in the civil service and getting ideas from them that we can then implement to improve services. And that fund I can share much more detail with you in the not-too-distant future committee members, but I would say that that fund is demonstrative of our willingness to consult with those people who are in government employ, to make sure that we're picking their brains and they have the opportunity to be heard.

This is another reason why I said to the member yesterday, and I'll say again, that reducing the size at the top of our organizational structure, reducing the number of layers between the front -line workers and the decision makers in management in government, is a critical aspect of how we get access to those ideas – improving the quality of work for people, in part, is about making sure they feel heard and feel respected in their ideas when they present them.

And so, that is what's inherent in the idea fund that we brought forward for the core civil service as a transformation capital fund where we put $50 million available to any departments, any staff in any departments to under - take transformative projects, and we also added to that fund after because there was such a positive response to it. We added an additional $25 million. We more recently announced in the election a dedicated $40 -million health sector front- line idea fund and a $25- million teacher idea fund.

So total support for the ideas fund concept is $140 million so far, but I would say, like the use of other consultants– not just internal but external –we already had seen significant savings derived, significant funds made available for reinvestment and other high priority areas as a result of that consultative process. So we consult outside, but we also consult inside government, as well. Mr. Kinew: See, I'm so inspired by what we've done here today. I knew that it would be a fruitful exercise

196 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 2, 2019 to spend the additional time in backing up and reviewing some of these outside actors, who were retained because now, after 20 minutes, we have a shared understanding of what consultant means. So it was a very useful exercise, I think, for us to spend that time and arrive at that understanding. So perhaps we could return to the earlier point, now that we appear to be on the same page about what a consultant is. It's about consultants who are embedded within departments, and maybe it's useful to, you know, to share a few examples.

So what I'm thinking about in terms of consultants of being imbedded in department –within a department, rather–sorry. You know, I think there is a Department of Health consultant, who's embedded, by the name of Ian Shaw. That would be one example of what I mean by embedded: the relationship between that consultant and the Department of Health. In the Department of Infrastructure, PricewaterhouseCoopers has been embedded within the department to collect information from staff and to return various advice. So I'm just curious how many examples there are like that across government? Mr.

Pallister: I think it's a real good line of questioning. I think, now that the member has clarified his terminologies better, I have a better ability to share information with him. I'll just repea t, all of this information that he's asking is made public, as I said earlier–is available to him. All past expenditures on consultants are made public not only through the $50,000 cap disclosure piece on public disclosure legislative requirement, but also on the $10,000 threshold. We'd go to a lower threshold for disclosure on consultants.

Some work– and I'll get the member an example –he referenced work being done in infrastructure and also in one area of health care, which again, I would suggest if he wants to get into the specifics of that, I believe there's about 87 steps away–depending on the length of your steps, there's a Health Estimates discussion taking place. If he wanted more detail on the Health issue, I'd suggest the Health Minister might be the best to supply that at Estimates. But, in terms of the concept, at least, let's take a look at which firm is it? * (15:20) Pricewaterhouse is doing on procurement.

Yes, so we had the procurement modernization exercise underway. This was a tendered contract. It was a–it's a three year contract. $6.9 million awarded to PricewaterhouseCoopers, started in June of last year, 2018 will realize multiple cost savings over the investment by planning purchases better in advance across the board and then sourcing products and services on a category basis. This is called category management. It's some - thing that the government wasn't doing very well and we recognize that.

Of course, back to Steve Ashton, we recognize that the purchase untendered of Tiger Dams products, for example–they were orange, they look like giant garbage bags, and they worked as well as giant garbage bags to prevent flooding. This was the analysis of the emergency management officials, but that report was covered up for about eight years by the then-minister and never released to the public.

So there's a contrast here that I need to make, which is that under the previous NDP government – and I'm not blaming the new NDP leader for this at all–but under the previous NDP government, not only were the procurement practices antiquated and prone to abuse –in this particular case it was alleged that Mr. Ashton was giving untendered contracts to a close personal friend, and I believe that to be the case. He gave not one but a series of them.

The report that showed that the product that he was buying from his friend wasn't working was out after the first or second contract was given out without shopping, without a tender. The other awards–a series of them were given out, after he not only knew the product didn't work well to prevent flooding, but he had also been instructed by the Auditor General, as had other members of his government, that they needed to upgrade the transparency with which they did their buying, and also that they needed to upgrade the degree to which they shopped before they awarded contracts–the tendering process itself.

We've done a lot of that upgrading in the last few years, but there's more to be done in terms of improving the nature of buying things in government. One of the areas we're certainly trying to advance with other premiers is on co -operative procurement of major health diagnostic equipment, testing equipment and so on. Each province, prior to this recent years, when Manitoba began pushing this along with the support of work from former premier Brad Wall in Saskatchewan, each province purchased their own MRI equipment separately, as an example.

Suppliers love that, but the taxpayer paid far too much for it, so trying to upgrade that value-for-money

October 2, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 197 proposition and doing a better job of purchasing more co-operatively across provincial governments, but within your own organization is critical. So that's why PricewaterhouseCoopers is working within government to work with government employees to train them on how to do a better job of making purchases and organizing and structuring purchases so we can get better deals. The savings will, no doubt, go to supplying more hips, knees, cataracts and all the Baby Boom services that'll be required in the coming years. Mr.

Kinew: Can the First Minister provide a list of these consultants who are embedded within government departments? Mr. Pallister: Well, we're having an interesting sidebar here, because I'm kind of taking the side of the Opposition Leader, here, and think that the member should be able to get all that information, and my friends in government are saying, well, it could take several months if we go across all the partners. Would the member be prepared to negotiate for the full disclosure of all major departments? Could we do that? Just because it might only take a few weeks instead of a few months to do it.

I'm all for making this information public. It will be available, it will be publicly available at year end, but that takes a year from now, eh? Well, I want to put it on the record: I think the member's asking a very fair question and I think he does deserve to get the information, and I don't like the fact that I have to defend that he won't get it for year, because I didn't like having to wait for a year when I was an opposition leader, either. But I would undertake that any major contract will be made public and that the information is all in the Public Accounts that comes out the following year.

And I will undertake that for the member. Mr. Kinew: There was, like, a great feeling of magnanimity in the air and I feel like we were on the– it felt like we were on the verge of something magical there, and then this –just short of a –hitting that point and kind of pulled back a little bit from the First Minister which is, you know, it's fair. We have our own different perspectives that we're operating under. But, you know, what I think was very close was, you know, perhaps an undertaking to provide a list in departments like Health, Education, Finance, Infrastructure.

I don't know if the Premier meant anything further, but I would certainly be interested in entertaining such an undertaking. Mr.

Pallister: Well, not to offer any legitimacy to the assertion of a budding bromance between myself and the Leader of the Oppos ition, I would undertake to make sure that the consultants in the departments he has mentioned are listed, the amounts of their contracts are added to that list and that information is made available to him because I think he has made a very reasonable ask and I thank him for accommodating the reality of the preparatory challenge that the government employees would face in respect of the complexity of a broader list.

I would–because I think it is worthy of note that our government is genuinely going to–inside the civil service–to ask for advice. To enunciate more clearly when I say an idea is fine, what are we talking about? Like, what kinds of ideas are coming up? What kinds of ideas are being brought forward by civil servants? And I'm just going to go on a couple of them; there have been many. Is there a document? Fifty -seven, I think. Yes, there've been–no, 68 projects approved, but 57 have proceeded to begin to be implemented so they're beyond the application stage; they're actually being acted upon.

So I'll just give you some examples. In Agriculture, digital signatures for claims adjusting: the application process for Manitoba ag services corp. claims will be digitized. Now how's that a big deal? Well okay, if–and there's going to be a lot of claims this year, sadly. So when MASC –when the crop insurance people go out to a farm, and it could be they're in Portage la Prairie. They're based in Portage but they could go all the way to Pierson. They could be up in north of Swan River going to evaluate a crop.

They go all the way up there and they have to visit that farm, obviously, to evaluate the damage that has happened to adjudicate the claim. In the past–if you can believe this, members of the committee, Mr. Chair–they then had to go back to get signatures, sometimes multiple times. So travel costs, staff costs, the wasted time, it's not a fun part of their job but they were doing it because we didn't have digitized signatures. So a member of their team suggested digitized signatures. As soon as you hear it you go, well, duh, shouldn't that have been done years ago? Okay, well, better now than never.

So that's one example. The processing at the Food Development Centre, purchasing food analysis equipment required for plant-based protein analysis: up until now that Food Development Centre was outsourcing all of that, and now they'll be able to do it in-house. The cost savings

198 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 2, 2019 over a few years–I don't have the enunciated costings for each single idea, but I'm just sharing with you the general ideas. Bu t I could get the cost savings anticipated for each of these. Boardroom modernization, this one gets me. This came from several different front -line government employees in Ag, Sustainable Development, Families, Health and GET, Growth, Enterprise and Trade. They all made this suggestion. Okay, you won't believe it when you hear it.

Boardrooms throughout government should be modernized with new technology so they can Skype into meetings. Wow, that wasn't being done. People were driving from all over the province coming into Winnipeg–and we all know that the roads are uphill going out so the meetings were never held outside. They were all held here–pretty much all, and now people from Pearson north of Swan River, Parkland, Interlake, who work for government, will be able to attend meetings, participate meaningfully using new technology. The savings are significant. * (15:30) I've got a number more; I think he might find these–Mr.

Chair, I think you might find these very interesting to learn about because the cumulative effect of these changes, all of these coming from front-line workers throughout government, is that we're able to find resources and then redirect them to things that people value more than having people drive all over the province to get signa ture one, two, three and four times. Mr. Kinew: I'd just like to pause for a second and, you know, the Premier (Mr. Pallister) makes reference to Manitoba ag services corporation..

I just want to say it's great to have on our team now somebody who used to administer the program in government, and so we certainly welcome excellent expertise that the member for Burrows (Mr. Brar) brings to our team and confident that meeting with KAP or other players that, you know, our colleague from Burrows is going to bring a lot of know -how and personal experience, personal connections.

He's sharing it already over the past time since he was elected that he's been out talking to people in the Interlake, including some producers that he used to work with in his previous capacity, so we're just really happy that he's on the team and he's going to bring some of that know -how to help the Manitoba Premier. Just want to give him a shout-out, on the record.

In terms of just getting back to, I guess, the substance of what the Pr emier was saying there, I'm just curious, like, just to confirm, so that was an undertaking to provide the–a list in amounts related to the departments that I mentioned there earlier. I got that right–yes–I see the First Minister nodding there. And I guess what I'm interested in beyond that is just whether this is work being done by these consultants–was this work that was previously done in-house by public servants? Mr. Pallister: No, no, it wasn't. That's the thing.

Like, you know, we've got great expe rtise within govern - ment and within our Crowns and our agencies, but we can't be experts on everything simultaneously, and there are advanced levels of expertise available to us from some of these consultants–special expertise that we can avail ourselves of, and that's what we're doing. So it is important, and I, too, would welcome the member for Burrows and congratulate him on his election, so we look forward to working with him as well.

Yes, these are–I believe it was Abraham Lincoln that said, if you give me two hours to cut down a tree I'll use the first hour to sharpen my axe, and I think that's kind of a reference to the importance of getting it right as best you can. And that means –it doesn't necessarily mean everybody has that expertise within government, but they do have the will and the desire to see government work better for other people. And so, when I reference these ideas that I'm talking about in the idea fund, these are ideas that came from people who work in the front line.

A lot of these are, you know, it's when you hear them you go well, why–why did we not listen a lot sooner to those people? But there's also the broader issues like procure - ment and advanced health strategies that not necessarily everyone at the front line has the time to study because they're busy doing their thing. They're specializing in being a nurse or a teacher, and so it's– I think the approach we've taken is a reasonable one to outsource where we feel we need that higher level of international knowledge or cross -jurisdictional knowledge, but to go into our own services, into our own shop.

Certainly, as a former small -business owner myself, I can say that there is no way that our little business could have succeeded without the team and without having everyone on the team being heard, because each of us didn't have all the answers, but together we hope we have more, and so we went to each other with problems, and that's what this model is about on the ideas fund.

October 2, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 199 There's another one that came–this came from the–through the civil –employees' Civil Service Commission, I think. It's called physician con- sultation–consultant pilot. A physician consultant will help managers support employees with complex cases. By allowing for physician -to-physician discussions, clear an d objective medical information will be received faster, ensuring the right steps are taken to support employees in returning to work safely.

In this instance the focus was on having a backup to the physician because not every physician has a focused exper ience, and especially the general practitioners on every area of care. So having a physician consultant available to assist you when you're working on a case where someone's been injured at work, for example, on when and how they should be transitioned back to work is a really critical aspect of giving a person their life back, really, you know, and giving them the opportunity to be productive again. To rush that process is really bad, and to delay it can be very bad as well.

And so, this was–I–obviously, these are –there is a committee, multi-departmental committee that evaluated these applications, that felt this was a project worth pursuing, and as I learn more about it, I can't help but get kind of proud about the person who came forward with this suggestion and–because it makes such good common sense. Obviously, the committee felt it did as well. Updating–another one came from Housing. This was on property network– the LAN extension for property network management.

System responsible for monitoring the safety and security of the housing properties is going to be updated, which, essentially, by allowing that updating, you move a bunch of outdated equipment out and you improve the effectiveness and efficiency of the operation that is in charge of looking a fter the safety and security of people. There's a win-win here, of course, because the people in the housing units are going to be safer and more secure, but also the effective management that will lead to that is less costly than the old system was.

Community living –families put forward a services purpose-built home idea, one of their staff. Purpose-built homes –and I don't pretend to under - stand all the technical aspects of this, but there are folks living with challenging disabilities of various kinds who, in many cases, had–have had to have their housing adapted to them rather than constructed for their needs. And so the idea here was to build the homes with the purpose of assisting those with a specific disability or set of disabilities, as the case may be.

The current practice had been to put people into regular homes and then –and that meant additional staff. It meant additional facility costs and mostly it meant, you know, you had to remodel the homes to effectively accommodate the person after they'd been built instead of before. Mr. Kinew: This is, you know, another set of good vibes. It's like there's Kumbaya, almost, being sang in the background with all these undertakings flying around these last little whiles. Wondering whether I might push my luck, if you will, and just ask for a few other undertakings.

I wonder if the First Minister could undertake to provide a staff lift –staff listing, rather, for Executive Council. Mr. Pallister: I'm not sure how many inquiries the member's made, but I ass ure him, to keep the tone positive here, I'd like him to recognize that on every occasion he has asked for such information, I have willingly and fully provided it and will continue to do so. So absolutely, not a problem there.

But I will use my time, wh ich, of course, and–as all members of the committee have time that is valuable and I know they would want to be illuminated about the projects that the team of people that are working in the civil service in Manitoba is coming forward with. Because I certainly –this is the kind of thing, and I don't think the member exaggerates when he uses that word, which I've never known what it meant, Kumbaya. I think someone could google it and share with us what Kumbaya really means.

But I think, in essence, what I t ake it to mean is that we're all very proud of the people who've come forward with these ideas and we recognize that they are positive and good, and we also recognize that it's better to have a structure where people can be heard in the organizations that they are part of. So that Kumbaya spirit that the member refers to is, I think it's worth pursuing. So I will pursue it by saying modernizing employ- ment and insurance assistance using web-based tools.

A web-based portal will allow faster communication with EIA clients and improve employment and training assessments to help them get back to work sooner. Currently, the majority of communications – get this –takes place via regular mail. Yes. So that delays training opportunities, obviously, and the sooner that the person on EIA can get into a training

200 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 2, 2019 situation, most certainly that's a better thing for them to have that opportunity. * (15:40) Families–one of the staff came up with an idea of a Unit Condition at Tenant Exit Incentive Pilot Project. This sounds suspiciously to me like a damage deposit idea, but what it means apparently is Manitoba Housing is going to trial an incentive program expected to minimize the cost of readying housing units before new tenants move in.

Now, we can get more detail on that, if you like, but that kind of sounds to me like trying to make people responsible, and I recall myself at university being a little less responsible than I might have been with my rented accommodation and, you know, that's why they charge me a damage deposit. So I'm not sure if that's the nature of this specific project that's being suggested here, but obviously it would be beneficial to have housing units that are ready as soon as possible for people who need the housing when someone leaves them. And so I think that's the general goal there.

Digitizing Tax Return and Payment Processing. Manitoba Finance will invest in optical character recognition technology, which I'm sure the opposition leader can elaborate on in his next speech and

preamble, that woul d allow the taxation division to scan and digitize documents for processing. That work is currently being processed manually. So, again, these are all savings and efficiency ideas that will allow workers to work more effectively for better outcomes. Invoice management. Accounts payable invoice management. This came from our friends in the Finance Department. Expense claim and timekeeping modernization. Manitoba Finance will improve the processing of accounts payable invoices, employee expense claims, and timekeeping.

This project includes the use of OCR technology –that's the previously mentioned optical character recognition– and employee self -service solutions to reduce the amount of staff time and duplication in the current processes. And I have one minute to go with one more –I will. Robotic Process Automation Pilot. Now this sounds exciting to me. The department will trial –this is from Finance as well –the use of a robotic process automation software. Robotic automation software.

And I know the Leader of the Opposition knows a lot about computer technology, so he might be able, again, to elaborate on robotic process automation. It will be piloted in three to six select areas of government that manage large volumes of repetitive and simple tasks. Savings w ill be achieved by redeploying staff to more complex tasks, reducing paper and reducing processing times. For example, automating the processing of simple claims forms. So these are ideas coming from staff. We don't want to do dull, repetitive tasks anymor e.

They'd rather have a computer do it so they can do something much more fun and rewarding. Mr. Kinew: Yes, my understanding that robotic automation process will be used to automate the generation of answers by the government in question period. We've been having a fun time turning to each other in QP, and say, the minister's about to stand and say X, Y, Z, and then watch the minister stand and say X, Y, Z, so certainly it's a technology exists that will automate that process and save, you know, staff such a great amount of time. Obviously I'm taking a – [interjection] Mr. Chairperson: Order a little bit.

Let's keep it in line, here. Mr. Kinew: For what it's worth, Mr. Chair, I, w hile completely respecting your interjection, I have to say I haven't seen so much life in the members opposite in this entire Estimates process until just now. An optical character recognition, that's computer scanners, you know, when you scan a photo, when you scan a document, something like that. Typically it generates a visual file, like a JPEG or a TIFF file. OCR–optical character recognition instead is a piece of software that converts that to an editable text format.

Put a letter on there, and then rather than getting a picture on your laptop, you'd have a Word document that you 'd be able to cite. I just can't help but take the bait when it comes to being a nerd on computer stuff, as you can tell. But I am getting back to– An Honourable Member: Kumbaya. Mr. Kinew: Yes, Kumbaya, right? All right, the member for Brandon East (Mr.

Isleifson), by the way, we had a little exchange of–outside of the recordings that I conducted at this committee, and I have to say that that was quite enjoyable to see him proffer a few explanations for what Kumbaya meant, but then to maybe correct himself after googling that a little.

October 2, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 201 Anyway, the point is –we're having some fun– getting–the point of this thing that I'm saying from my colleague in Concordia–you know, we're having fun, but I don't think that is the point of Estimates. I don't think anyone's ever looked at Estimates and thought, hey, fun, we're going to have a good time there. But important work it is, nonetheless.

So, just getting back to what I was asking about earlier, I was just wondering if the First Minister can provide the committee with a listing of the staff who are at Executive Council and an org chart for how it's organized right now. Mr. Pallister: So I believe I undertook to provide all that information previously. I think the only thing is the member is now asking for a chart –like an org chart–as well. And that's in the annual reports of Executive Council, which provided the chart itself. Right? Yes. So that would be there. Right. Well, okay. Well that's an interesting –I mean, I don't see why not.

I mean, that's all written–it's going to be available for the Public Accounts; it just would mean finalizing a little earlier. Now, with the latitude to make changes in the names, you know. Not as many as there were in the Selinger government towards the tail end, but there might be some staff changes and things like that. So I just add that as a qualification. Sorry, I –maybe there was another –was there a supplementary ask? Or– An Honourable Member: No. Mr. Pallister: No, I think I–the status as of a certain point in time, but just with the caveat that it may change.

Again, not as much as it did under the Selinger government with all the rebellion and departures and severance pay issues that were dealt with there at the expense of the taxpayer. As far as the repetitive nature and the –of the answers the member alluded to in question period, I can only say that as a consequence of the repetitive nature of the questions, it would follow that there would be similar answers given on a regular basis. So it may be a sign for all of us to look for new theories in our questioning if we wish to have different answers.

On the data storage piece, though– and this is an exciting thing–by migrating data that is infrequently updated to a storage option that is backed up less frequently–secondary storage–the government would save money associated with backing up data on a daily basis. In the past, according to some front-line people in Finance, we were backing up stuff on a daily basis we didn't need to back up on a daily basis. So we're saving some money that way, which can then go to– of course, probably the Health Department, as it consumes much more of our resources than was ever the case under previous administrations.

We also have secure bulk email now. By adding a secure bulk email servi ce that can be accessed by any department, the Province will save money that is currently being spent on the process of, believe it or not, printing, folding and inserting into envelopes and mailing bulk communications to clients. So here's another example where somebody in the–in this case, in the Finance Department –came up with an idea to use technology for what it was being used in the private sector effectively for, for perhaps a decade or two prior.

So appreciate these, again, are suggestions coming in from government employees that we are acting on and that are working to effectively reduce our deficits and allow us to improve service investments and lower taxes at the same time. As to other investment ideas that are coming in, online tax credit an d rebate registration system by introducing a web portal, Manitoba Finance will simplify the registration and assessment of eligibility for personal and corporate tax credits, rebates, grants which are currently managed through paper -based processes.

Again , going away from paper based, going away from dull, repetitive tasks and moving towards using technology effectively. This has been a source of many of the suggestions for –coming from government employees. * (15:50) Geographic information system's an interesting one. This is a –came from Growth, Enterprise and Trade and it's a suggestion to support a five -day geographic information systems training program for 14 geoscience staff at the University of Winnipeg, and this training will prepare staff to produce high-quality digital and hard copy maps in reduced time frames, and I'll go on.

There are other program's equally exciting and stimulating to learn about as we move forward with our ideas fund suggestions. Mr. Kinew: So that's good, to get that clarifi cation on the undertaking; appreciate that. And curious about Cabinet committees as well. I think some of them are– you know, there's requirements around certain committees, supposed to be –Healthy Child

202 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 2, 2019 Committee, as an example. But just wondering what the current status is. Is the Premier using, you know, Cabinet committees, or is it, you know, the sort of the DM tables we were talking about yesterday? So I guess, just to begin, I'm just wondering if the Premier can share the amount of active–currently active committees of Cabinet right now. Mr. Chairperson: Leader of the–sorry –Honourable First Minister. Mr. Pallister: No, I apologize, Mr. Chair, no need for you to; I interrupted you, and I will endeavour not to do that again.

I would encourage the mem ber–all committees are by order -in-council, and they are all available as he may be able to research this and get more detailed information than I would be bother the staff with, given that they are going to be compiling those previous lists that he asked for, and focusing on that. I'll just let him know that if he goes to oic.gov.mb.ca/oic he would get each of those committees and their memberships as well will be listed on there.

And I would also just share with the members of the committee that the ov erarching reality, because the member did ask and I will provide it, of staff in the Executive Council, and my–one of the department of government–which is approximately 35 per cent smaller than it was under Premier Selinger –just to give them an idea of so me of the activities that happened around the time of the NDP rebellion, just so they get a sense of the costs associated with this internal squabble that the previous government entered into.

Now, this–by this, I would just be summarizing the information around new hires and salary increases between December 2014 and October 2015, so right around the time of the Cabinet revolt, the following attempt to hang on to power, the leadership contest which was largely decided by four or five public sector union bosses, and then the subsequent activities around hiring and dismissal and so on.

During this period, which is approximately 10 months, the number of new political staff hired by the previous government was 33; the number of salary increases offered during that time over and above previous salaries was 12; the number of staff receiving severance payments was seven. If I recall, the total was approximately three quarters of a million dollars. And the total cost to the taxpayer of just that category was $2,859,874.

Now, in that same time period, which, of course, was in the run up to the 2016 election, coincidentally, the number of new political staff hired, this would be 33; salary range was between $37,000 at a low, I believe for a part -time position, and $135,000 at a high. The average salary: $67,000; the total additional salary for new hires was a further $2,007,917. During the same time period, a number of staff received promotions and raises –this, of course, just in anticipation or in the preliminary da ys prior to the election–12 staff received raises.

The range of salary increases went from 3 per cent to 60 per cent, and the average salary increase was 22 per cent, with a total additional salary to the taxpayer just during that time period of $181,957. And so, here we have just an idea of the relative expenses generated as a consequence of the NDP internal rebellion. Not, of course, a responsibility of the member for Wolseley (Ms.

Naylor), but nonetheless important in the context, and understand, because not only is my office smaller, and my Cabinet, of course, 30 per cent smaller, but we're getting more done, and we're not wasting close to $5 million doing it. Mr. Kinew: I'm wondering if the Premier can tell the committee if the staff that support thos e committees of Cabinet, which I assume are active, if they're still listed in OICs, you know, where are those support staff located? And, you know, what are the roles there? Mr.

Pallister: So just to be clear, the member wants a list of all the staff who su pport the committees of government and where they are physically located in their offices? I just want to be clear before I undertake to do it, that I'm doing what the member is wanting me to do. Mr. Kinew: Yes, I think we're on the same page, but just to clarify: the committees of Cabinet, is what I was saying. The Premier used a slightly different phrase but I meant committees of Cabinet. Mr. Pallister: I've got a list now for the member of committees of Cabinet.

I'll just read it off and if there's any additional information that he wanted, then he could just add that to the list. So we'll pull this together for him: Priorities and Planning Committee; Treasury Board; Regulatory Accountability Committee; Healthy Child Committee; all aboard committee–poverty reduction; in addition, Economic Growth Committee, which was

October 2, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 203 just recently formed; Gender Based Violence Cabinet committee. If the member had any other request there, I would be happy to accommodate it. Mr. Kinew: Yes, no, that sounds good. So that's an undertaking, to follow up on that. [interjection] An Honourable Member: Kumbaya, baby. Mr. Kinew: Yes. We're still working out what that means, by the way, but the member for Brandon East (Mr. Isleifson) is working on it. I think Wikipedia says it's of disputed origin, apparently, so there's a range of

interpretations. I think there was a long pause I took there to reflect and then continue on–long pause that I took there, Mr. Chair, and then continue on with the same thought process. Yes, so just to confirm that that's the undertaking. I just wanted to just confirm that before I was kind of distracted. * (16:00) Mr. Pallister: Undertaken. Mr. Kinew: Reminds me of the name of one of the old wrestlers I used to watch back in the day, eh. An Honourable Member: He's still wrestling. Mr. Kinew: Still wrestling, I'm informed.

Haven't been as closely watching that lately, though NHL season's starting, so that's certainly going to take up more time. Perhaps we could change a bit and then–change subject a bit, rather, and talk a bit about education. I'm curious about the education review that's been launched. And I guess, as a starting point, wondering whether there's been an interim report submitted to government by the ed review. Mr.

Pallister: So just–I didn't want to go through the other 37 projects, but I'll leave that and just refer the members to news.gov.mb.ca, and they can go on the backgrounder that was put out on this a few months ago. So they can have a look at the other projects if they're at all interested in that. No, there's no interim report. Mr. Kinew: What sort of interactions have there been, if any, between

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	42-1-3
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	42nd 1st hansardpdf 3.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	72999db16cdd6060046a7b70107cd03e4b4be72e

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