VOL. 1 PRELIMINARY UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR ']'HE PERIOD 3:00 p.m. - 6:00 p.~. THURSDAY, JULY 1, 1982 NO. 32

,Jul y 1, 1982 Tape No. 1881 MJ - 1 The House met at 3 : 00 P. M. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. ~11L ~ ' !' t:{'l{t:!l_ J!~u ;; ~ ~, I!,) : Onl pr l pl ~.:~sc ! OR.I\L QUES'l' IONS MR. S. NEARY: Mr . Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: The hon . the Leader of the Opposition. MR . NEARY : Mr. --------------- Speaker I first of all T 1.;ant to ·welcome the hon . the Premier back in the Bouse . SOl1E liON • MEMBERS : Hear , hear! MR . NEARY: What adoration! They must be •J<) lll •J to c lo!> <.' pret t y soon . SOME liON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SP.EAKER: 'fhe hon . the Leac'l·~• of the Opposition . MR .

NEARY: After an absence of more than a fortnight 1 Mr. Speaker, I <'lo not blame the hon . gentlemen for al?pla .udin9 . We are all glad to see the hon . gentleman back in his seat . He has not been here since we got him upset the day 1ve l'lere do.ing his salary, his estimates. This is his firs ·t appearance since . Now, Mr. Spe.:tke r, th0. hon. qcntlcman just c.,'ll~ ~-,,-:~ from Ot ta1va and - MR. '!'ULK: Refreshed no doubt . MR . NEARY: - no doubt the hon. gentleman is refreshed an.d is in a conciliatory mood as far as 1-1e can see from the public statements that he has been making .

And I do not intend to be hard on the hon . gentleman on Canada's bi t'thd:ly 1 but the hon. 9ent lem<~n hils been makinq contradictery statements . Now is he going along with the eonditions of the federal budget with regard to wage ~estraints in the public service or is he not? Or is the hon . gentleman going to follow his own 3 Q~7

July 1., 1982 Tape No . 1881 ~1.1 - 2 MR . S. NEARY: guidelines of five per cent and is upset because Ottawa's guidelines are little more generous, six per cent this year and five per cent ne:<t year? l'lould the hon. gentleman set the record straiqht because \'le have heard tHO eiffercr.t statements? well, { hi1V0 1\e;:J.rd .l numbcJ' <>l different statements from t.he hon. gentleman since the meetinq took place in Otta\>la . ~.~~~ER (Russell) : PREMIER PECKFORO : Now what did he tell the Prime ~1inistcr? The hon. the Premier . Mr .

Speaker, what we told the Prime Minister \"as that YIC are glad th : he has come to the party of wage restraint in this nation- cetter late than never­ bcr.:ause mvsL nr l:h•.! f)I"Ovind"l qovernmcnts of Cunudn ll,.\<1 il l rem.{ taken action ~ ~ jA ~~

July l, 1982 Tape 1882 PK - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: on public service wages in their respective jurisdictions. I went on to indicate to the Prime Minister that we had in our Budget articulated the position th~t wr wis~ to takr in Newfoundland as it related to public service wages.

And that position is, number one, that the senior public service would receive 5 per cent, and only 5 per cent; and that we rather then unilaterally introduce legislation to legislate the whole public service with one fell swoop at a certain percentage,and therefore not allow for the lower paid workers,perhaps,who deserve a little more than the highest paid workers 1 that we would try to still use the negotiation process.

In the full knowledge that there is very little on the table,and given that a lot of wealthier governments including the federal government and the provincial governments are restraining themselves, it should be clear to the union movement and to the public sector unions that whilst we want to negotiate there is not all that much money on the table, but that we want to be fair and reasonable and to try to co-operate rather than to legislate. So our approach is to try to co-operate not legis+ate, but within a restraint period and within restraints which we all know are necessar" at this time.

So we are using the 5 per cent as a signalfor the senior public service and hope 1 through Treasury Board and our negotiating teams,to sit down with the varj .ous groups and negotiat0. ~nt it has to be clear to all that that negotiation does not mean that there is a lot of money on the table, but it may be possible to give some recoqni:ion of those on the lower end of the scale over those on the higher end of the scale. :1 a L 11

July l. 1982 M~~RY: MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Leader of the Opposition. MR . NEARY : jargon means, Mr. Speaker. ~O~E ~ON. _MEMBj:RS.:_ MB.:_ NEAB:!.: Tape 1882 PK - 2 A supplementary, Mr . Speaker . A supplementary, the hon . I do not know what all that oh, oh! I will try to summarize it in the form of another question to the hon. gentleman . What does he mean by 'we will try to negotiate'? What does he mean by that? Osing the hon. gentleman's own terminology, would the hon. gentleman elaborate on that •we 1o/l 11 trv to ncqotiatc'? ME..:._ SI.'E/\KER: 'l'he hon. tlw l' J:Crn lc r.

PREM.!§.IL.E_ECKPORQ: We al1~ays try to negotiate every year or perhaps I can cake out the word 'try', if he wants, we will negotiate. But we are not going to be negotiating along the lines of a normal year because the monev is ju st not there . \vhat we are saying is that we do not 1·1ant to use the methodology of unilateraU sm which the federal ~1ovcrnmcnt has used , 1-Jt'! want to use 1 q c ,.,

,Tuly l, 1982 Tape No. 1883 so - l PREMIER PECKFORD: a method through which the public service unions and their bargaining people sit down with our bargaining people and we want to do it that way. But it must be clearly understood that obviously with what is happening all across the nation and in the federal public service that there is very little money on the table or available.

And the other problem that we are trying to check out now on the federal government's procedure,which is throuqh J eqislation, not only the methodology, but what \'ie arc trying to check out now is whether in fact the Public Service of Canada, the federal public service, are still eligible for their increments,which could be as much as 4 per cent, and does that 6 per cent go on top of that 4 per cent, because if it does it does not do the kind of psychological thing which seemed to be the motive behind the Prime Minister and Mr. MacEachen's budget to start with.

So we are trying to check that out as well but we are going to negotiate and try to do as best we can .But we must make it clear to all that there is very little money on the table but we want to try to co-operate and to try to reflect that there is a difference between the lowest paid and the highest paid. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (Russell): of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Supplementary, the hon. Leader That seems to me to be a tricky way of saying, Mr.

Speaker, that what the hon. gentleman is really saying is that we are going to negotiate but we are not going to go above the 5 per cent guidelines that have already been laid down, because the hon. gentleman, in his next breath, says there is not very much on the table. Now could the hon. gentleman elaborate on that remark? How can you negotiate in good faith, you know, with that kind of a statement from the h0~d of the qovernment that there is not very much on the table to negotiate? Could the hon. gentleman elaborate? ~qr.;J

July 1, 1982 Tape No. 1883 so - 2 MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon . the Premier . PREMIER PECKFORD: The Prime ~linister of Canada is just saying 6 per cent and you ~re not al lo wed to go on strike for two years. I mean if we are talking about people who are making statements, I think it is clear, Mr . Speaker, to most hon. members in this House what I am saying. I do not intend to negotiate in public, I intend to all0\-1 the collective bargaining process t.o work through the Pr es ident of Treasury Board (Dr. Collins) and ~~s people and with the various union groups and we want to sit down and talk to them .

But we are just making it clear ,because we wish to participate in the public wa ge restraint programme,but in our own \-ray ,t tat we want to do it at the table recogn izin g that there is a difference between those who get $50,000 or $60,000 a year and those who get $9,000 or $12,000 a year . They are the two ends of the spectrum in the Newfoundland Public Service and we are going to try to reflect that as we sit down to talk. But how much that can be reflected \vill be determined by the negotiations . MR. NEARY : Supplementary, ~tr . Speaker . MR . SPEl\KER (Hu _ss _cll): Supplementary, LIH.: hon.

T.r.:ld cr of the Opposition. HR. NEARY : The han. the Premier then is admitting that the ;I q; ·~

July l, 1982 Tape 1884 NM - l MR. NEARY: Provincia] qovernme 1.i.:, that his admin,- istration does have a wage restraint programme in effect. The hon. gentleman is admitting that. Now what instructions has the hon. gentleman given to his negotiating team, to the people who are bargaining on behalf of the government~ Have they been i~sued specific instructions in connection with negot iations, that they are to hold down any increases to 5 per cent? Or what instructions have they been given 1if any? MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Obviously, Mr.

Speaker, I cannot answer that question. We are not negotiating here. I mean, the whole point of our policy is that the Treasury Board people will sit down with the union groups and talk to them and negotiate. Obviously they take direction from the President of Treasury Board (Dr. Collins), the Planning and Priorities Committee of Cabinet and full Cabinet, and that has worked every year and it is workinq this year now.

And so there is a strategy and a plan as there is every year, but I do not intend to release that kind of information ~nr the instructions that have been given, or the proposal that has been approved by Cabinet. That is entirely a secret matter because we cannot negotiate in public. We want to sit down with each group because from time to time one group might have a peculiar circumstance that is not valid for another group. Whether we can reflect all those differences and still come in with a reasonable amount of money is the big problem,and we have just got to because we cannot allow it to get out of hand.

But we are trying to show our reasonableness in doina it this way rather than introducing legislation which would .mean the s~me percentage for everybody, regardless of any particular circumstance. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. ~ q t; .1

July l, 1982 MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : MR. NEARY: Tape 1884 NM - 2 The hon . Leader of the Opposition . \-lhat the hon. qentleman is really saying is ~~at we arc prepared to negotiate but you 3re only qoing to get 5 per cent . That is what the hon. qentleman is saying in effect . Now, Mr. Speaker, let us switch to another subject . This talk about the offshore matters that we asked quit .e a few questions about in the House about yesterday.

Did the hon . gentleman .ake any new initiatives 1-1hen he was in Ottawa with either the Prime Minister or any of his ministers to try to get the offshore negotiations back on the rails and try co resolve Lhis problem l:hul is sinking Newfoundla,d at the present time into the depths of poverty? MR. SPEAKER: The hon . the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD : P.r. Speaker, any initiatives that the Minister of Energy (Mr. Marshall) or I take, or the ~1inister of Finance (Dr. Collins) or the Minister of Fisheries (Hr. Morqan) take "" various thinqs dealinq lvith the government,if and when those initiatives are taken, ~1::

July 1,1982 Tape No. 1885 ah-1 PREMIER PECKFORD: from time to time we then inform the House and the people of Newfoundland when it is appropriate.And I do not think T u.m .lbout to indicate any - I do not know if the Minister of Finance (Dr.Collins) or the Minister of Fisheries (Mr.Morgan) have taken any new initiatives in certain areas of the fisheries over the last couple of days which he wishes to report on today because perhaps it will be tomorrow or perhaps it will be next week.

So when the government feels that it has something more to say on the offshore or on the Upper Churchill it will say it at that point in time. MR. NEARY: MR.CHAIRMAN (Russell): A supplementary. MR.NEARY: A supplementary. The hon. Leader of the Opposition. Mr. Speaker, do I understand then from the hon. gentleman's answer that the stalemate, the dead-end will continue and that there will continue to be a crisis in the Province as a result of the Province refusing to get back to the bargaining table and negotiatP a settlement of the offshore in good filiI h. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr.

Speaker, there is a crisis in the country alright and it is due to a federal government which has mismanaged its Budget and is 100 per cent out in its deficit in seven months, a government which refuses to allow the private sector to qo ilheil<'l an<'! ctn its work and qct the cnqines of the economy moving, which scares away all foreign investment, which brought in the National Energy Programme which has driven the investment that we had in Canada down to the United States and which negatively effects everybody. ~q::;r;

July 1,1982 Tape No. 1885 ah-2 PREMIER PECKFORD: There is a crisis: The dollar indicates that, t'he stock market indicates that. Everybody in the country is very, very worried and very, very concerned, from British Columbia to here,a.rd there is nothing peculiar about the circumstances that we find ourselves in.~s it relates to the offshore issue, nur position on the offshore is very, very clear , Mr.Speaker, and I do not need to repeat it today.

But I will just indicate as I did in the previous answer that when something new occurs then we will inform the House and the people o:: Newfoundland as soon as that is appropriate in our opinion. MR.NEARY: 1\. supplementary , Mr. Speaker. MR.SPEAKER (Russell): A supplementary. The hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR.NEARY: Nothing will occur unless the hon. gentleman changes his attitude. And I notice he was not as conciliatory in his last remarks as he was when he came out of the meeting in Ottawa. Things will not be long getting back to normal.

All you have to do is ask the hon. gentleman a few penetrating questions and the hon. qcmt lcmu.n qcts ri(]ht back t.o nonnal <Jqain, anti-Canadian, anti-Confederate. I did not think it would last long. Now would the hon. gentleman tell the House if he had an opportunity to converse with Mr. Levesque,'•Tt-n also came out of that meeting in a very friendly conciliatory mood,to talk to Mr. Levesque about the power corridor across the province of Quebec with a view to getting the r.ower Churchi lJ dcve l opmcn t underway and a transmission line 1 (''}[.~ r:

., July 1, 1982 Tape 1886 EC - 1 MR. NEARY: built to bring badly needed electricity to the Island of Newfoundland? Has the hon. gentleman taken any new initiatives in that regard while he was in Ottawa? MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speqker, I will answer that question with another question: Has the Leader of the Opposition informed the Liberal Party of Quebec and the Liberal Party of Canada that we deserve to have the same rights of energy transmission as other Canadians have by right now and that we should not have to go negotiating rights?

If the Leader of the Opposition is on side, I would appreciate his support in getting the federal government to not defer the legislation but to bring it into effect now so that we can go ahead and do some developments. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. WARREN: MR. SPEAKER: Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: Hear, hear! Mr. Speaker. The hon. the member for Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Dawe). First, I would like to congratulate the minister on bringing in the seat belt legislation effective today. I think it is a good move on the part of the government. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.

WARREN: Now, my question to the minister is, knowing that the federal government have passed through Cabinet the finances to go ahead with the airstrip prnqramrne in Labrador, could the minister tell us what time he anticipates calling tenders on the Postville airstrip? ~q::<'

July 1, 1982 MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Transportation. MR. DAWE: Tape 1886 EC - 2 The hon. the Minister of Mr. Speaker, I have checked late yesterday afternoon and again early this morning. As of yet we have not had any official communication from the Department of Transport that this in fact has transpired. I would only hope that it is in fact the case and as soon as we get acknowledgement that this has happened,and both parties lwve o£fix~'d tlwir names to the agreement,then we should be ready to caJl tenders within a matter of hours. MR. WARREN: MR. SPEAKER: Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker.

The hon. the member for Mr. Speaker, I think it was passed in the House of Commons on Tuesday past, but anyhow, the minister will know in due course. I have another question for the Minister of Transportation. This was in correspondence that I wrote to him some time ago. I think probably the minister understands that operators of motor vehicles throughout the Province - there are some parts of the Province that owners of motor vehicles only operate them for two or three or a maximum of four months per year; however, they are required to pay the total registration for the full twelve months.

Has the minister given any thought to the people who have motor vehicles - and I will give an example, like in the town of Makkovik where there are fourteen or fifteen motor vehicles and about six and one-half miles of road and they can only use their motor vehicles from 20th May up until probably the first week of November. Would those people be required to pay the full registration for the full year's 1 r. c; ,.,

July 1, 1982 Tape 1886 EC - 3 MR. WARREN : operation of a motor vehicle when there are no roads in existence from November until the following May? MIL SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. the lolinister of Transportation . MR . DANE : Mr . Speaker , it is very difficult in this Province with all its geographical differences and weather combinations and so on to really 1 q r. ;

July 1, 1982 1'ape No. 1887 M,T - l MR. R. DAWE : be able to differentiate exactly between people living in one part of the Province and people living in another. There is a standard rate charged. There is a group of ir-dividuals in the Province who utilize a truck as part of their livelihood and this government through new initiatives this past year has introduced a form of licencing whereby these people can licence on a quaterly basis, thereby allowing them to just licence their vehicles for the months that they would be working.

And this is in line with their employment and to insure that,because it is normally a small business, these people wil I he able to not to have undue expenses associated with havinq a licence over the full period of the year. But as it relates to individuals and private operators of vehicles,it is a standard practice, and it has come into full force as it relates to Labrador this year, that the residents of this Province pay the same rate no matter where they live. MR. G. Wl\RREN: ~- .. --· ------- - Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : 'l'he hon. the member for 'l'orngat Mountains . MR. WARREN: Mr.

Speaker, the minister did say that he gave exceptions to truckers who are employed for a short period of time. Well,I would like to advise the minister that this applies to all the people in coastal Labrador that they can only operate their vehicle for a short period of time - it is not their fault, there is no snow clearing services in their communities - but they are operating their vehicles from May to November.

So surely goodness the minister should look at the problem that those owner operators have with their vehicles and see if he can come up with some kind of a system that they will pay for one half of the Y<'<H insh'ilcl of the whol<' t·wclvc months. Will the minister look into the matter? Cjnr-n

July 1, 1982 MR. SPE~KER (Russell): MR. R. DAWE: Tape No. 1887 MJ - 2 The hon. the Minister of Transportation. Mr. Speaker, this government is willjng to look at any particular situation that arises and ~ddrcss itself to it. If this seems to be a problem,then WP. will certainly look at it. I would only indicate to the hon. gentleman,though,that the licencing of vehicles is similar to a number of fees and charges that are paid by people.

I am sure there are people who pay their fee for the use of a Provincial Park realize that it is for a very short season, people who buy their skicloo licences and permits realize that they can only operate them for a limited 9eriod of time.' albeit, Mr. Speaker, that the people of Labrador, where they have more consistant snow conditions, are able to use their skidoos for much greater lenqths of time then the people on other parts, for instance the Avalon Peninsula. But the same licence fee and the same registration fee is applied to all.

It is very difficult to try and separate the residents of this Province into various classifications . The fee systems, the registration systems that are in place are designed to be as fair to all as possible. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Torngat Mounta.ins. MR. l'il\RREN: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Premier. ~F l ;-~ I

July 1, 1982, Tape 1888, Page 1 -- apb MR. WARREN: There sometime last week the Minister of Rural, Agricultural and Northern Development(Mr. Goudie) announced that funding for the Labrador Resources Advisory Council would be discontinued after September. Could the Premier advise if his government still regard the Labrador Resources Advisory Council as the primary contact for consultation concerning resource development in Labrador? if you were listening. MR. NEAR¥: MR. SPEAKER (_~~sell): PREMIER PECKFORD: That was a auestion to you- Wake up, boy. Wake up. The hon. the Premier. Mr. Speaker, I was not listening.

The hon. member was asking a question about the Labrador Advisory Council, is that right? MR. WARREN: Yes. PREMIER PECKFORD: Well, we are examining a number of those councils and so on, we want to make them more effective. I think there has to be ongoing representation from groups like in Labrador, where we had the Labrador Resources Advisory Council, but the minister is dealing with it and is trying to see whether changes or whatever - MR. NEARY: He has already said that .

PREMIER PECKFORD: Yes, but there are moves afoot to replace it with another council or another group or whatever so that the intent of the thing is carried on. I think that is the objective of the minister, but there has been the $95,000 or $100,000 or more per year - MR. WARREN: $150,000. PREMIER PECKFORD: It has gone up to $150,000 has it? I remember when it was back to $95,000 or $100,000, I did not know it had gone that far. $150,000 is a lot of ~a r-: ·

July 1, 1982, Tape 1888, Page 2 -- apb PREMIER PECKFORD: money, and I think the minister is trying to ensure that if we are going to spend that amount of money we really get our full due out of it. There were one or two different organizations which backed out of the Labrador Resources Advisory Council. The Labrador Inuit Association, if my memory serves me right, is out, and are not the Naskaupi/Montaignais people out as well? MR. WARREN: Well, partially. PREMIER PECKFORD: Oh, partially. Well, there you go.

So you do not have what was the Labrador Resources Advisory Council there any more, you only have a skeleton of the groups. And, you know, it is no qoocl to have cl T.uhrudor Resources Advisory Council, especially dealing with coastal matters, if you do not have the Labrador Inuit Association, for that part North of Rigolet, advising the council. So I think the minister is trying to look at ways and means of increasing the representation in some kind of body which will be able to give sound advice to the minister and to the government. MR. SPEAKER(Russell): The bon. the member for Torngat Mountains. MR.

WARREN: Mr. Speaker, I thank the Premier for his answer. However, on August 11, 1979, the Premier said in his press conference in Labrador at the time , and I will quote probably from the paper, what is said here: "The Premier went on to say that ~::- is important that a consultative process , designed to meet the needs of all concerned " be developed as soon as possible! In that regard, he proposed that the Labrador Resources Advisory Council become the primary contact for consultation concerning resource development within Labrador." :l q r-: •

July 1, 1982, Tape 1888, Page 3 -- apb MR. WARREN: Now, we have seen, I think, this government in the past five or six years spend probably $600,000 or $700,000 toward the Labrador Resources Advisory Council. Is the Premier satisfied to date with the performance of the ~ 0 ~.:

July l, 1982 Tape 1889 PK - l MR. WARREN: -- --- Labrador Resources Advisory Council? And if he is no~ probably the second question is 'I'TOuld the Premier and his government be looking at channelling funding through the combined councils of Labrador,which inclunes all towns from Labrador West down to L'anse au Clair and up to Nain, would the Premier be looking at the combined councils as an alternative to the Labrador Resources Advisory Council? MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, the government will take advice from the ~inister responsible for Northern Development (Mr.

Goudie) andhow he thinks it could operate most c[[cctively, what body or whe1t organization or whatever could operate most effectively. It is resources, of course,and the councils are not really,under legislation or whatever, charg ed with the responsibility of looking into resource development. So I do not know if that would be the proper organization or not. But we will be taking advice from the minister. But obviously '''"" want to continue a consultative process. The question i!? what is the best way to do it.

And given that the Labrador Resources Advisory Council has lost some of its membership and, therefore, is not truly representative of Labrador, the minister is about his business trying to look at the ways and means of making it more effective and ensuring that all of I,abrador is represented. Whether it is the combined councils or not, I do not know, and we will have to wait to hear the recommendations from the minister. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Port au Port. MR. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Environment (!!r.

Andrews) concerning concern for the citizensofLong Harbour who have been complaining about this ::~ q r-; l-

July l, 1982 Tape 1889 PK - 2 MR. HODDER: green moss - MR. NEARY: ------ Flowers growing in between the windows. MR. HODDER: - fungus type of substance which has been growing on the sidings of their homes and on the roofs which they say has not occurred before and does not occur normally in that particular area, I understand that ~ group of people are taking up some sort of a petition - not a petition, but looking for examples around the community at the present time. Could the minister tell the House exactly whilt is happening and what his departm<~nt is doing to assist the people? MR.

NEARY: He does not know, boy! MR. ~PEAKER ~ussell)~ The hon. Minister of Environment. M8.:_ ANDREW~: I understand it is a very vague question, Mr. Speaker. There are emissions corning from the ERCO plant at Long Harbour,everybody knows that.since it was put there. The company has endeavoured, <tnd with considerable progress under our direction improved the air emission quality corning from that plant. We still feel that there is sone work to be done especially on certain days when the wind blows, and it does blow in Newfoundland.

We have people lookjnq into that, and our people have been looking into that problem for a matter of time now. And, of course, there was a meeting with the ERCO people. I have arranged to meet personally on Tuesday of next week with the Town Council of Long Harbour. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Port au Port. MR:..._HODDER; Mr. Speaker, a supplementary. I must say that I am glad to hear the minister is going to meet with the people on Tuesday, I think, he said, because they have asked him five times - this is the fifth time that they have - no, this is the sixth time, l~r. SPeaker, thF~t: th<>~• h"'"" ~Clf-:r

July l, 1982 Tape 1889 PK - 3 MH. HODDER.:_ asked him to meet. I would like to ask the minister who monitors the air? What sort of monitoring devices does the Depart..ment of Environnent have in the Long Harbour area ~t the ERCO plant? MR. NEARY : Who does it? The minister's department or the company? MR. SPEAKER JBussell) ..:_ The hon. Minister of Environment. ~q;:;7

July J, 1982 Tape No. 1890 MR. ANDREWS: Mr. Speaker, on a technical question like that I will have to take the question under advisement and get the information for the hon. member. MR. HODDER: Mr. Speaker. SD - ] MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : MR. HODDER: The hon. member for Port au Port. Mr. Speaker, is the minister telling the House that no one from the Department of the Environment monitors the air coming from the ERCO plant, there is no monitoring done? MR. NEARY: He does not know. It is like that spray programme out near Millertown, he does not know anything about it. MR. ANDREWS: That was not the question. MR.

HODDER: MR. NEARY: MR. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, my final supplementary. You are on your last chance now. Have officials from his department analyzed the substance that has been grov1inq throughout the community and has there been any evidence of phosphates in this particular substance? MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (Russell): MR. ANDREWS : In the moss. The hon. Minister of the Environment. Mr. Speaker, once again a technical question which I do not know. The previous question was what type of monitors -we do monitor the air emissions from the ERCO plant, yes.

We are satisfied with the improvement in the air quality to date,and we have instructed the company to improve the quality even more. MR. HODDER: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Supplementary, the hon. member for ~ort au Port. MR. HODDER: Could the minister tell me I might tell him, by the way, that the substance h~s been analyzed by ERCO themselves and they say thereare phosphates there so obviously it is now public knowledge which the minister does not know. But I would like to ask the minister .'=1 q f~ q

July 1, 1982 Tape No . 1890 so - 2 MR . HODDER: if the levels of the air pollution in the ERCO plant is acceptable by Canadian standards? MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon . Minister of the Envir onment . MR. 1\NDREWS: To my knowledge, Mr. Speaker, on most occasions, if not a~l the time , the air e.missions are Lo <.:" n.:tdlun stondan..ls , yus . 1 would also like to co mment on the fact that phosphates were found in the area around there. Phosphates , as you know, are used extensively as a ferti lizer and they do help thing s to gro w including moss .I understand . I'-1R . ROOF.RTS : Mr. Spcakcl· . MR .

SPEl\KER : The hon. member for the Strait of Belle Isle. MR . ROBERTS : Mr. Speaker, a question for the Minister of Fisheries (Mr . Morgan), if I could. I hesitate to interrupt him but Question Period is going to go very quickly . I understand he has some news on the T.J. llar<ly r.imited situation . I wonder if perhaps he could bring the House up to date ? MR. SPEAKER : The hon . Minister of Fisheries . I-1R. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker, during the visit to Ottawa the deputy minister and myself this week made contact with the people in Ottawa dealing with the proposal l)Ut (orward by Mr .

Hardy and the Nickerson company combined, because the Nickerson company owns half of that operation. \-Je were told by 1 () ~~ ,,

July 1, 1982 Tape 1891 NM - 1 MR. MORGAN : the officials in the Department of Industry, Trade and Commerce that they would not be in a position to deal with the proposal from the T.J. Hardy operations in Newfoundland until around the end of July, and as a result of that I am now sending correspondence to the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. LeBlanc), and to the Minister responsible for Industry, Trade and Commerce (~r.

Gray), pointing out that this would be a bit late in gettincr a decision,because we are of the opinion in the Departmen~of Fisheries and Finance that it is important for us to know what the decision of the federal government is going to be,positive or otherwise, with regard to the request made to them for government guarantees from the federal government.

As I said last week, in answerinq questions from the same hon. gentleman , it is going to take both levels of government to overcome the financial difficulty of that company, which has operations in Port aux Basques, Rose Blanche, Anchor Point, Cow Head, and Flowers Cove. And it was indeed disappointing to learn from Industry, Trade and Commerce that they had received a proposal from Mr. Kirby, Mr. Kirby did not deal with the proo0sal in the same manner as he dealt with St. Anthony,for some reason, He merely passed it on,and in a very casual way passed it on ,to Industry, Trade and Commerce.

He did not give the same kind of priority to those plants in Rose Blance, and in Port aux Basques, and Anchor Point and Flowers Cove and Cow Head. In fact he gave little consideration at all to the problems of that company in these areas and passed it on to an official in Industry, Trade and Commerce and says, "Will you deal 1vith it?" And the Industry, Trade and Commerce says, "Yes, we will deal with it, but it is going to take substantial time. It will i q 7 ,·,

July 1, 1982 Tape 1891 NM - 2 MR. MORGAN: mean around the last week in July before we can meet to even discuss it;• And that, Mr. Speaker, to us and the Newfoundland Government shows the lack of concern of the federal government for the problems of the fishery in that part of our Province. MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): One final supplementary, the hon. member for the Straits of Belle Isle. HR. ROBERTS: I will be very brief. I just want to know, Mr.

Speaker, whether the provincial consideration of the Hardy proposal,which the minister told us last week involved a reauest of both the federal n.nil p1:"rmin~i nl .'JnVPrnrnc'nts, j [ the minister could t-.0.11 nc: ... ~ ... th"r the provincial consideration will be delayed until the date, if ever, when Ottawa gives an answer? The minister indicates it will be the end of this month, that is what he was told. Couln he also tell us -I was not quite clear- whether he actually met with Mr. Kirby or what Mr. Kirby is said to have done was what somebody told the minister he did?

I was not clear whether he actually met Mr. Kirby or not. MR. SPEAKER: I give the hon. Minister of Fisheries a minute to answer the question. MR. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker, no,I did not meet with Mr. Kirby. I did with a member of the T.ask ~orce. The Deputy Minister and myself had considerable discussion with a member of the Federal Government Task Force on the Atlantic Coast Fisheries and we did discuss the matter with an 3 Q 7 ·I

July 1, 1982 Tape 1892 EC - 1 MR. MORGAN : official of the Industry, 'l'rade and Commerce Department who is now dealing "'i th this matter because it was referred to them by Mr. Kirby. Nt:. Kirby's task force dicl not deal with the problem of the T. J. Hardy plants operations, unfort~~ately, in the same kind of priority as they dealt \d th the problem in St. Anthony a few weeks ago . And we find that rather unusual because the problem s ln Port uux l3asqucs and Hose Bl.:~nche M'l' just ,ts imf>lll't.:lnt as the problem in St. Anthony. MR. SPEAKE R (Russell) : The time f.or Question Period has expired .

PRESENTING REPORTS BY STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEE S HR. SPEAKER: The hon . the Minister of l)evclopmcn t. ~m. WINDSOR: Mr . Speaker, I take pleasure in tabling the annual report of the Ne\.,foundland and Labrador Housing Corporation for the fiscal year ending March 31, 1980. MR. NINDSOR: MR. SPEAKER: Development. MR . \-liNDSOR: NO'J'lCc; OF f•IO'l' ION Mr. Speaker. The hon. the Minister of Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, "An Act To Expropriate The Property Of 1\dvocate Mines Limited . " ~ n ~, •

July 1, 1982 Tape 1892 EC - 2 ANSI'lERS TO QUESTIONS FOR WHICH NOTICE HAS BEEN GIVEN MR . SPEAKER (Russell): Municipal Affairs. MRS. NEWHOOK: The hon. the .Minister of Mr. Speaker, I wish to table ans~1ers to questions 75 1 55 I 35 1 128 and 133, listed on the Order Paper 1 requested by the l-1HA for Eagle River (Mr . Hiscock) . MR . OTTENHE1MER : Mr . Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister o£ Justice . l-1R. OTTENHEIMER : Mr . Speaker , I wish to table answer to question 129 on the Order Paper of June 24th. DR. COLLINS: Mr . Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finan ce. DR . COLLINS: Mr.

Speaker 1 I wish ·to table answers .to questions 118 and 112 on the Order Paper of J une 14th , I think it was, and June 25th. ORDERS OF THE DAY MR. Ml\RSI!lltL: Motion No. 1, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Motion No. l. MR . NEARY : Mr. Speaker. MR . SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR . NEARY: I want to congratulate the Government of Canada and the people of Canada who are observing their 115th birthday today. I was rather disappointed, Mr. Speaker, that . the hon. the Premier did not introduce '=! p "i '

July l, 1982, Tape 1893, Page l -- apb MR. NEARY: a resolution in this House today to give members an opportunity to acknowledge the fact that this was Canada's birthday, that we are Ca~adians, our home is Canada and that we are proud to live under the Canadian flag and under the Canadian banner. Mr. Speaker, we live in Canada, we are residents of this land, and we are all proud of it . SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.

NEARY: 1 thought that the ho11. gentleman, when he was in a conciliatory mood following the meetings in Ottawa, vTould have rushed back to this House today with a resolution to pledge allegience to Canada. I know me and my colleagues, Mr. Speaker, are very pleased to pledge our loyalty and our honour for this great country. On this day, Mr. Speaker, I suppose I will not offend any hon. me'llhers on the government side of the House. On such a day as ·today I do not even mind saying b• my bon. colleagues .:~cross the way, llappy birthday, ladies and gentlemen. SOME HON, MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR.

ROBERTS: ~s long as they do not sing '"e are okay. MR. NEARY: Whether you care to acknowledge it or not, it is your birthday as well .so, Mr. Speaker, I wish to wish happy birthday - MR. MORGAN: Sing' 0 Canada! ' MR. NEARY: As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, I was ho?ing, in anticipation of the Premier bringing in a resolution, I had copies of'O Canada!' printed that I was going to give hon. !'lembe .rs. Because I am sure that hon. gentlemen on the other side of the House, Mr. Speaker, do not know the words of 'o Canada! ' ~e n

July 1, 1982, Tape 1893, Page 2 -- apb MR. IWBE~TS : the meaning of the words . MR. NEARY: They certainly do not know No, they certainly do not knm1 the meaning of it . They do not know the words, that is for su re . Mr . Speaker, just to finish up these o,ening r~~rk~, it is good to be a Canadian, Mr. Speaker, it is really good to be a Canadian . And I was hoping we would have an opportunity in this Rouse today to sing 'o Canada !' Mr . Speaker, the hon. the member for Steph enville(Mr . Stagg) yeste rday in his rather disjointed rema~ks made a remark that I take exception to which had to do with the closing of the House. M.R. STAGG : Oh? i q -; l,

July 1,1982 Tape No. 1894 ah-1 MR.NEARY: The hon. gentleman indicated that the Opposition was anxious to get the House closed. 1>1R. DOYLE: That is not true. MR.NEARY: No, Mr. Speaker, that is not true. The Opposition are anxious to keep this House open. We are prepared to keep it open as long as there is something worthwhile, somethinq meaningful to debate. MR. PATTERSON: Good liberal strategy! You are going to start to campaign now? MR.NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the remark made by the han. gentleman is not true. We will stay here as long as is necessary.

If it takes three more weeks to finish up the business of this House ,then I say sobeit. We are not in any rush to get out of here.The only thing about it, Mr.Speaker, is that we have been here now seven or eight weeks and we have not debated anything so far that would put bread and butter and milk on the table of the ordinary people of this Province. We have been forced to debate things like the parliamentary freeloaders - MR.TULK: The lap dog act. MR.NEARY: - the lap dog act. We were forced to debate that, to put four more members of the House on the?ayroll to freeload off the taxpayers.

But we were not given the op!)ortunity to debate mcu.sures or policies that would create employment for the ordinary people, for the record number of Newfoundlanders who are unemployed in this Province, Mr.Speaker, and therein lies the problem. If we are going to be forced to debate matters in this House that do not mean anything to the ordinu.ry Newfoundlander then maybe we may as w"~J.l cJose the House ~own today. HR. TULK: As of today the sock washers are getting ?aid. 'J, (\ ~· :··

"" July 1,1982 Tape No . 189 4 ah-2 MR.NEARY: But if we are going to have an opportunity to debate policies and plans to create employment for the forty or fifty thousand Newfoundlanders '"ho are unemployed , then I would be prepared to stay here ti 11 ChriRtm'ls Mr . Speaker . Tf we were qoinq to be asked to debate measures that would help the homeown ers cope with their mortCJages. The hi<Jh interest on mortgages on their homes, :1omeot-merR 1 n ·, ~,

July 1, 1982 Tape 1895 NM - 1 MR. NEARY: are being f0rced to give up their homes because they cannot meet their com;11i tments , if we were asked to debate these measures, Mr. Speaker, then I am sure that none of my colleagues would object to staying in this House for the next several weeks or several months. If we were asked, Mr. Speaker, to consider measures to correct the problems of the fishery .

To eliminate the chaotic condition of the fishery in this Provine<' at the present time, I do not think that any member on this side of the House would begrudge another couple or three weeks or a couple of months, Mr. Speaker, to debate this item. The fishery is in one awful mess in this Province and hon. gentlemen opposite seem to think that by rescuing plants from bankruptcy that that is the end of their responsib] li ty, that t.hcir obligation ends there.

You would not know but it was the first time, to hear hon. gentlemen talk,you would not know but it was the first time that fish plants in this Province were ever bailed out and saved from bankruptcy. Back in the mid-sixties every fish plant in Newfoundland was bankrupt, every one, and every one had to be assisted. MR. MARSHALL: MR. NEARY: That was the burn your boats days. No, it was not the burn your boat days. Well what do you call this? What are we into now? MR. MARSHALL: We are in bigger beats. MR. WARREN: At 12 per cent interest. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, at that time the government of the day had to bail out every fish plant in Newfoundland. I ~rould not be surprised but before this year is over that this administration will have to bail out, save from bankruptcy,every fish plant in this Province. MR. WARREN: Most of them anyhow. 1 ~ ~~ ·'

July 1, 1982 Tape 1895 NM - 2 MR . NEARY: ~~en you see, Mr. Speaker, a fish plant operator like T .J. Hardy running into financia~ problems , falLing on hard times , then Mr. Speaker, that is an indication, that is a barometer to everyone in this Pro vi nce that the fishing industry is in dire straights il' thi~ ~ovin ce. Mr. Hardy, whom I know well and have a great deal of respect for, is a completely independent operator , and Mr. Speaker , up until now has been beholden to nobody for anything . And now even Mr.

Hardy, as good an operator as he is, has to come to both the provincial and federal governments for aid to try to keep his operations goinq . And that should be a pretty clear indication of the mess that the fish ery is in in this Province . so hon. gentlemen should not sit back ancl just qct up ilncl boast and beat their chests and say, "We 11, we helped this fish plant. tole St>en t 'V:j -; ·•

July l, 1982 Tape No. 1896 MJ - 1 MR. S. NEARY: $2 million or $3 million to help this one stay afloat, We spent $1 million to help this one keep c~ing. We •J~ve aw~y thi~ one to somebody on the Southern Shore. We put up a guarantee to save this plant or the other plant from bankruptcv."They shoulu not be content to sit back and say that is the extent of our plans for the fishery. But that is what they are doing, Mr. Speaker.

We have not seen any evidence at all in the last several years in this House 1 or outside of this House, any indication that this administration has any plans, whether thcv be short-term or long-term plans for the development ot the fishery in this Province. Mr. Speaker, I \'lould not want to be the bearer of bad news or be accused of preaching doom and gloom,but from what I can hear from the markets in the Unite~ States where the big fish producers in NewEoundland send their coa nlocks, from ~nformation that I have I would suspect that we have not seeu our worst days in the fishery in this Province yet.

I would say we are in for some pretty tough times, pretty hard times, before this year is over. I am told by people who know that every warehouse in the United States that receives cocl .blocks from this Province is blocked to the doors, blocked. The cocl blocks are just not moving and that is bound to affect some of the big plants in this Province,like Fishery Products and the Lake Group, who ship mostly ::on blocks to the markets in the United States. I hope, Mr.

Speaker, that I am wrong, I hoping that this does not happen.B>ut I am sure that the administration, especially the Premier ann the Minister uC Fisheries (Mr. J. Morgan),have information t:h;,t, if it 1.;as known, would be very alarming to the fishing industry and to the people of this Province. It is a very, very sad situation, Mr. Speaker, a very sad situation. You know, I do not know if hon. qentl.en1un '111 f); I

July 1, 1982 Tape No. 1896 MJ - 2 MR . S . NEARY : care or not any more on that side of the House, I do not know if they care about the fishe;ry . They all ~0-t up and pound their desks wh en the Minister of Fisheries (Mr . J . t-10rgan) stands in his place and he reels off a bunch of plants that had to come to get government hel p, qovernment assistance, t'o keep them from going into bankruptcy. 7\nd hon. members pound their desks as if this was a won .derful thing. Any government worth its salt would do that to keep our most lJ,1sic industry c1live . But ask yourself this question ~ ;\ f1 :• I

,July 1, 1982 Tape No. 1897 SD - 1 MR. NEARY: Where are the provincial qovo .)rnmcnt' s plans for the future of the fishery in this Province? Where are the provincial government's plans for marketing fresh fish and other produce of the sea? Where are the plans? Can the hon. gentleman Charles Dickens,I believe it was, Mr. Bumble, Mr. Bumble, was it not? MR. WARREN: That is right, yes. MR. NEARY: Can the hor;. gentleman tell us where the government that he idolizes and looks at so glassy-eyed over there day in and day out, what plan~ do they have for marketing the produce of the sea in this Province? MR.

MARSHALL: Have you learned to read yet? MR. NEARY: I would gladly take my seat if the hon. gentleman will tell me about the marketing plans of this government. The only marketing that we hear about, Mr. Speaker, are these jaunts that the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) goes off on once in <l while. Likethe one up in Ottawu the other nicjht that we hear so much about, renting space in the most luxurious and posh buildings that you can get in Ottawa. MR. STAGG: Sit down, boy. MR. WARREN: Waltzing Matilda. MR. NEARY: I think the minister is called Yes, we are going to rename him Waltzing Matilda, Mr. Speaker.

What do these things accomplish, Mr. Speaker? What do they accomplish other than give the minister an excuse to get out of his office and go off on another expensive jaunt? How much are these whims of the minist0r costinq the taxpay0rs of this Province? HR. 'l'OBIN: SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. NEARY: I was with you one time (inaudible) Oh, oh! That is the only sign of marketing we see from the administration. What about the proposal, Mr. 1 il :: .

,July I, 1982 ~1R . NEARY : \-JOuld just keep quite - MR . TULI< : Hr . Bumble too . MR . NEARY : HR. TUJ,K: Tape No. 1897 so - 2 Speaker, if Mr. Bumble now There is one over there called Mr . Bumble and Mr . Bumblebee . Yes . MR. N£1\RY: Mr. Speaker, what is wrong with the proposal that has been put forth by this side of the House and by the Fisherme ns Union in this Provinc e that a sepa rate Cro wn corporation be set up to market fresh fish or that the terms of reference of the Canadian saltfish Co r~oration be expanded i Q :.:

July 1, 1982 Tape No . 1898 PK-1 ~ .EARY : to include the marketing of fresh fish and all other produce of the sea? No~->• '"hat is wrong with that? MR. 'rULK : Nothinq . MR. NEARY : Not a thing wrong with it . \·lell, why does not the hon. gentleman stand up, representing a fishing district in this Province, and advocate that and br ing some pressure to bear on the administration . MR . MA'M. 'REWS : Everything is '"onderful . MR . NEARY: Everything is l"onderful . Oh the hon. gentleman - MR. MJ\TTHEI\IS : Yes, you are at it again . MR . NEI\RY : ------ No htl rrn to soy tht.: hon . qentleman - MR.

TULK : You had better take a qood look at the Lake Group. 1'1R. NEARY: Yes . '!'he Lake Group no'" are on pretty shaky grounds again now . t.f.R. TULK : Better take a look at the Lake Group . S0~1E HON • ME1>1B E RS : Oh, oh! - -------------~---- !I~ -· _k)l\'l"J'JI EWS : lie quite rKIW. You do 110 1 know what you are talking about. MR . TULK: Still on the Grand Rank . MR. NEARY : --- ~1r. Speaker, one of the great reforms in this Province l-.las the settinq UiJ of the Canadian Salt fish Corooration. The Minister of Fisheries C Mr .

Morqan) has been lukewarm on it, he supports it one day and he is ayainst it the next . LJst ycnr the hon . qcntlcmnn w~s highly critical of the Canadian Saltfish corporation . 1\nd now the hon. gentlemen has done a fliP -flo:) because th£' Canadian Saltfish Corporation is developin< as a popular Liberal reform . 1 (j ·,

July l, 1982 Tape 1898 PK - 2 MR. NE/\RY: Now the hon. gentleman is trying to climb abo:1rd the bandwagon afte .· coudernni:1c;, the Canadian Saltfish Corporation, after saying he did not want anything to do with it and trying to whittle away their authority and their power by taking the big fish away from them and giving them to some of his buddies who have been asking for it. MR. TULK: The Fish Trades. MR. NEARY: The Fish Trades, that is right - and leave the small fish to the Canadian Saltfish Corporation. That is the kind of policy the hon. gentleman is following.

The bon. gentleman says he would like to recommend changes in the Canadian Saltfish Corporation. The han. gentleman has the provincial fishery in a big enough mess now without trying Lo tamper with the Canadian Saltfish Corporation. lie should make up his mind just the same as he should make up his mind whether he is for or against over-the-side sales. MR. TULK: That, by the way, is Mr. Bumble. MR. NEARY: That is Mr. Bumble, and the other is Mr. Bumblebee. Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is, Sir, the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) is a disaster, an incompetent, a disaster in this Province. MR.

MORGAN: Romeo is right on! You are right on about that bumblebee . MR. NEARY: The sooner the Premier removes that bon. gentleman, Mr. Speaker, the sooner we will get some concrete plans and ideas for the fishery. MR. TULK: It would be a good portfolio for 'Rideout'. MR. NEARY: No, it would not be a good portfu2io ::\ q ~~ r,

July 1,1982 Tape No. 1899 ah-1 MR.NEARY: for the hon. member for Baie Verte (Mr.Rideout) because I do not think he could handle it. But there are people on the other side of the House who can handle the Fisheries portfolio. It is such an important department , Mr.Speaker, in this Province that we can no longer allow the minister to play with it, make a play toy out of it. And now that we have lost the Deputy Minister of Fisheries, Mr. Speaker, we have lost the only man at the top who has any knowledge of running the department, <my knowledge of the fisheries, And now that gentleman has gone, Mr. Slade. Mr.

Speaker, I do not know what is going to happen in the fishery. I really do not know what is going to happen. I would think that we have not seen our worst times yet. I would say that before th~s year is over-and I hope mv words will not come true- before two months are out you are going to see a crisis in the markets in the United States. AN HON. MEMBER: Doorn and gloom again 1 is it? MR.NEARY: No, I am not preaching doom and gloom .. I am only trying to shake the minister and the administration into doing something positive about the fishery. Mr.

Speaker, to come back to what I said a few moments ago about closing the House. This House should not close now, Mr.Speaker. It should not close this week. This House should not close. SOME HON.MEMBERS: Oh, oh~ MR.NEARY: No, it should not. The House should stay open,but if it stays open we should debate measures and policies that will do something about the unemployment in this Province,and about the state of the 1 n .-~ ~.

July 1,1982 Tape No. 1899 ah-2 MR . NEARY : fishery and about the state of the forest industry and about the state of the mining industrY , Mr. Speaker . r.m . RIDEOUT: Your colleagues want to close too . Do not be so two -faced . MR . NEARY : l-1r. Speaker, my colleagues do not \".:mL to clos~ . t-Ic. l;pc<~kel· , we cnucused today, we had a caucus today, Mr. Speaker, and I can tell the hon. gentleman from Bay Verte (Mr. Rideout) the feeling of the caucus. MR. RIDEOUT : And I can tell you too. Mll.NF:l\llY: Yes, and r can tell the hon. gentleman the feeling of the caucus. The feeling of the caucus, Mr .

Speaker , is this, that if we are going to sta gger and struggle on like we are goi ng now by appointing parliamentary lap do gs - t1.R . RIDEOUT: They want to get out because you are doing all the talking . You are hogging the whole sho w. ~(\;( -,

July 1, 1982 Tape 1900 EC - 1 MR. NEARY: -by appointing parliamentary lap dogs, if that is the kind of thing we are going to do then my han. colleagues say shut her down today. SOME HON. I.![.MBERS: Oh, oh! !iR ~ ~R !.:_ But if the government, Mr.

Speaker, who calls the order of business in the House, if the government is going to lay measures on the table to do something about the cost of electricity, the cost of living, record unemployment, the high cost of homes; is the government is going to do something about the forest industry, about the fishing industry, about the mining industry, about offshore development, about the development of the Lower Churchill; if the government is going to lay these measures on the table, my colleagues have told me in no uncertain terms that they want to stay.

But if the government wants to waste the time of this House with some of the foolish pieces of legislation that we have had before us, then shut her down today and let us get out or · here. We are only wasting our time and we are only wasting taxpayers money. SOME HON. MEMBER~ Oh, oh! !iR.:....... NEAR.r: Mr. Speaker, my caucus told me today what they wanted, and they volunteered it. ~nd let me say this, Mr. Speaker; these men whom I am proud to serve, these members, I am proud to serve them, Mr. Speaker, they are fatigued, they are beat out. Mr.

Speaker, they have told me that they will stay here until Christmas even though they are tired. They are fatigued. MR. TOBIN: Did they tell you they wanted a new leader? MR. TuLK: No sir! MR. NEARY: They have been working hard this session. Mr. Speaker, the members of the Opposition have worked extremely hard this session and I am proud of them. We have worked together as a team. 1~q~·-: . I

July 1, 1982 MR. MARSHALL: to chew when he is speaking? SOME_!!~MBE~ MR . NEARY:: ---- Tape 1900 BC - 2 Is the hon. member allowed Hear, hear! And I guara .ntee you, Mr. Speaker , contrary to popular belief, before the House met wbe.n our ranks were reduced ·to eight, when the word went abroad, 'Well, how can this Opposition cope with the government? They have become arrogant and dictat- orial and they will become corrupt and you will have to have eyes in the back of your head to watch them,' Well, Mr. Speaker , they know that they have been in a session of the House, they know the House has been meeting.

And the hon. tbc "remier, two and one-half weeks ago went stompin g out of the !:louse, '.\Q.; I

July l, 1982 Tape 1901 NM - l MR. NEARY : Mr. Speaker, because he could not take it, he could not take the criticism, he had to qo off and rest, and now they want to get the House closed so he can have another rest. Mr. Speaker, I will make you a prediction right now, that the House will not be closed five minutes when there will be a lineup at the travel agencies >'linisters getting out to get away from the problems and the worries and the torment of this Province, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, so I am happy and proud, I never had such a good group of people working for me in my life as I have now.

They are all pulling their weight, every one of them. Every one of the Opposition are pulling their weight and they are a wonderful team. They are a wonderful team, Mr. Speaker. They are a great team. And they are doing their job and the people of this Province can sleep well at night and they can be assured that the Opposition are watchinq this government. And it does not make any difference if they have forty-four members or not, whether they become arroqant and dictatorial and whether they shout and rave and bowl and squabble, Mr. Speaker· We are not going to be intimidated.

We arc not qoinq to be intimidated bv this l1R. TOBIN: You will not be leader when the house opens. There will be a leadership convention in the Fall before the House opens. MR. NEARY: leadership - SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, there will be no Oh, oh! There will be no leadership convention for a couple of years.So hon. gentlemen cannot use that as un excuse that I am making a leadership pitch because I am not. I have not had time this session of the House to think about anything else except to keep an eye on the administration and to keep an eye on the ministers, Mr. Speaker. ::Jqon

July 1, 1982 Tape 1901 NM- 2 MR. NEARY: It has been a pretty tough job but 1"e have managed to do it and .1 guarantee you that the government knows. MR. Ml\RSHJ\LL: Knives in your back . MR. TULK: Do not be silly. MR. NEARY: I beg your pardon? MR. l-1.ARSHALL: Knives in your back . MR . NEARY: No knives in my back, Mr. Speaker, no knives in my back. I have a good team working with me. MR. MARSHALL: High guality people? MR. NEJ\UY: 7\nd I •. un proud of them . 1 am pro ud of them , Mr . Speaker, everyone of them have done their job . They have pulled their weight.

And if anybody should want the House closed it should be the members on this side who are absolutely fatigue .d. They are tired. They are beat. But everyone of them today told me, they said, "We will stay here forever if the government would only put measures on the table to deal with the real problems in this Province." HR. YOUNG: The member for Eagle River (Mr. Hiscock) •1as down i n New York all the year, and the member for Terra Nova (Mr. .Lush) has gone on holidays. ::~ qy l

July l, 198 2 Ta9e No. 1902 ~1j -1 MR . NEARY: Mr . Speaker, the hon . mentbm· for Harbour Grace ( Mr . ll. Younq should be very carcf,Jl with that kind of line . All he has to do is check his own ranks . \ve had the hon . the Premier out of the House for the J <'lS t t•,lo and a half weeks . MR . TOBIN: He was in Ottawa trying to straighten things out for Newfoundland . MR . NEARY: Oh, he was on business . ~Y hon . colleague v1as not on bus1ness, I. suppose? MR . MORGIU'Ii: Do not tell me he was . MR . NEARY : Yes! How do you know what he was doinq? Do you have your spies chasinq the hon. gentleman <lt·ound? MR.

MORGAN : He ~~as dow .n in Ne1" York . MR . NEARY: I see . I see . What about the me .mber for Port de Grave ( !-1r . R . Collins ) ? Mi~ . YOUNG : I do not k.no\.,. but he is out in the commo~ room. t-1R . NEARY : I see, I see: He is here . 't'hc hon . <JCntlC'm.:tn should wntch th ,lt S()rt of I inr . 'T'h;tl is pretty low -down stuff . MH . RIDEOUT : But you never use it . MR . NEARY: No, I do no~ use it . t certainly do not use it . The hon. member cannot say that, that he has ever heard me at that . SOME liON. MEME3RS : Oh, oh! MR. RIDEOUT: You were at it a fe1" minutes ago about the Premier . MR .

NEARY: Of course I 1"ns, because t 1o~arned the Premier about that sort of thing about five \veeks aqo . SOME HON . MEMBERS: 1'1R . 'J'ULK: ------ Oh, oh ! YIIU hC'r .tc1· <JUi L "'thi IC Y<IU ,lft: ;1IW\1<I, 'Tom' . Quit \-I hi le you are ahead. MR. IUDEOUT: --··--- ·----- You h<'IVC a :::hort fnt ·mor-y , boy! 1 q -: .. • . .,

July l, 1982 Tape No. 1902 MJ - 2 MR. NEARY: Yes, the hon. gentleman better quit while he is ahead. MR. RIDEOUT: I am not worrying about as far as the hon. gentleman. I fixed him in 1975 when he was independent going against me. Right. MR. TULK: Oh, yes. Like you fixed the Premier with the poison pen letters. MR. NEARY: The hon. gentleman now better start fixing up his image in Baie Verte. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. RIDEOUT: There were 171 Liberal votes there and there arc not seven there today (inaudible) a thousand or more people how proud they are of you. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, one of the problems with this budget that we are debating is that it is very difficult for the administration to bring down a creditable budget under the auspices of the Minister of Finance (Dr. J. Collins) and the hon. the Premier. Very difficult. SOME HON . MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the Premier seems to use as his permanent argument that the future - he bandies that word future around considerably - his weakness, Mr. Speaker, if that is the right word, or the scapegoat that he uses is the future - he blames his ills and woes on today and he promises all kinds of wealth for tomorrow.

And that is the big problem with this administration with that kind of a philosophy, with that kind of a place for the Premier to hide: 1 Q :.j ·:,

July 1, 1982, Tape 1903, Page 1 --apb MR. NEARY: You cannot be criticized for things that are going to happen in the future, and I am convinced, Mr. Speaker, that is why the Premier keeps talking about all the things that are going to happen in the future. He cannot be critized for things that are going to happen in the future, but he can be criticized for things that are happening at the present time. He could be critcized if he put forward a policy, and that is why, Mr. Speaker, this administration has not brought forward one realistic plan for the short­ term or the long-term development of this Province.

There is not one new industry that has been created _since the Tories took over in this Province ten years ago. MR. MARSHALL: electorate say. That is not what the MR. NEARY: That is not what the electorate say? Mr. Speaker, let me set the record straight. The last election, the issue in the last election was like the term 29 issue; people felt that if they did not vote for this platform that they would be unpatriotic, they would be voting against Newfoundland. But ask them today, Mr. Speaker, ask the people today. MR. MARSHALL: Wriat about the survey? MR. NEARY: MR. WARREN: that one. MR.

MARSHALL: friends about the last survey. MR. NEARY: Yes. Ah, ha, we could tell you You should ask your federal The last survey that I saw, Mr. Speaker, showed that the Tory administration in this Province, one month after the election, had taken a nose-dive like you would not believe. MR. RIDEOU'l' : That is the same poll suid you would get thirty-fi.ve seats. 1 q ~J'

July 1, 1982, Tape No. 1903, Page 2 -- apb SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR . DIN N : Even Goldfarb did not say that. The day before the election the Leader of the Opposition said if the people get out we should have forty seats. MR. NARREN: or te levisi on o r any th in g. M.R. NEARY: I did not have any radio Mr. Speaker, this govern- ment can only promise but never delivers anything that it talks about in the future. And then it blames every­ body, especially the federal government, for its own in­ competence . MR . TOBIN: MR . NE ARY : Whe ·re are all your supporters?

All my supporters are out working for their constituents, and that is more than the hon. gentleman can say from what I can hear. Mr. Speaker, the federal government brought down its own budget the other night with many good programmes for stimulating the economy, ?, Q~ .: r

July l, 1982 'rape 1904 EC - 1 MR . NEARY: for stimulating the housing industry, the construction industry . The federal government is showing that it intends to fight inflation on all fronts. And this government, Mr. Speaker, if it were worth its salt, should show the people of this Province what the provincial government plans are and to show the people of this Province whether or not they intend to follo1"' that example that was shown by the Government of Canada the night before last. The hon. gentleman is showing us the way to poverty, that is the only way the hon. gentleman is showing us.

This administration is leading Newfoundland into the depths of poverty and they are doing it, Mr. Speaker, by rebuking Otla wa at every twist and turn, they are chastising everybody else to keep the attention off their own incompetence and they are holding out this hope for the future that never seems to happ ·en . Ten years ago, January 18th, 19 72, when the Tories took over in this Province , we heard the same things about the future as we arc hearing today, exactly the same policies, philosophy, about the future. They keep talking about the future but the future never comes, nothing ever happens.

And they have been at it nO\\ ' for ten years, Mr. Speaker, and that is ten years too long as far as I am concerned. ~1R . YOUNr.: You had the same s•1ecch in 1972 . l1R . NEARY: Mr. Speaker, at least r can net up in this House and make a speech. MR . T0"'3IN: I guess you can after thirty years. 1 () ~~ ;'

July l, 1982 Tape 1904 EC - 2 MR. NEARY: I should not allow myself to be intimidated by hon . rookies who make statements like 'Let them starve . ' Somebody said to the hen . gentleman, 'What will you do? \vill you let them starve? ' He said, 'Try me.' That is the attitude of the hen. gentleman, 'Try me. ' Now , Mr. Speaker, that is the attitude of this administration. The attitu de of the hon. gentleman, t1r . Speaker, is typical of the attitude of the administra­ tion , ' Let them starve . We will sit on Hibernia pntil hell freezes over .' 1 q :! -,

July 1. 1982 Tape No . 1905 PK-1 HR. WARREN: Yes. That is riqht. MR. NE/\RY: 'We will let the water of the Lower Churchill flow into the Atlantic forever . We are not going to negotiate. ~-Je are not going to start up mec;a projects in this Province. Let the people starve.' MR. WARREN: That is right . t-1R. NEARY: 'L et them starve. They have no bread, give them cake.' Let them starve, that is the policy - MR. YOUNG: Th~L is the sumo speech you nhld c in '72 . MR. NEARY: - following the example set by the hon. member for Burin-Placentia West (Mr . Tobin) . MR . HODDER: Who had a liquid lunch . MR .

NEARY: That is right . l•ffi. TOBIN: ------ Sec wh:~t tl~cy 11id to me:> The-y Jllll me in here. MR. WARREN: With a blue card in the welfare cheques. '1R. NE.I\RY : 'l'hc hon. I)Cntleman, t-lr. Speaker , is just passing through. I have been here going on twenty-one years and t have seen members like the hon. gentleman come and qo. t4R . WARREN : That is right. MR . NEARY : There is a lot of water gone under the bridge in twenty years, Mr. Speaker, and I have seen glassy-eyed, bushy-tailed members 1 ike the hon. gent:J eman come int o this House and they did not last lonq, Mr.

Spe.:lkcr. '!'hey c.lid not l<t!::t lomJ . MR . TOBIN: f.1R . MORGAN : last time. MR. NEARY : I \vill be here unUl I have grey hair . And you had a t\•ent:y-odd vote majority The big problem in political life is not gettin::J elected the first time, it is getti n9 re-elected . That is the problem . ~ 0 "J •••

....... July 1, 1982 Tape 1905 PK - 2 MR . 'l'OBJN: --- --- I will be here for years, (In n 0'"; •·•0r r v. MR. HODl) ER : He will bow out when an ele~tion i s called again. MR. WARR•'·':! : - --- (I naudible) . MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, if I was the hon. ge ntleman. l i ke I told him the other day,I would sit here for the first year and I would say nothing. The hon.gentleman shoul d be seen and not beard. The hon. qentleman should take the exam ple set by the member for St. Mary ' s-The Capes (Hearn) and be seen and not heard. I am sure the hon. gentleman is tryin g to learn something and - SOME HON. MEMBERS : ~m.

N1·:7\tW : - -·- is learning something new. MR . WARREN: ~· NEARY: Hear, hear! - every day the hon. gentleman Not li.ke you . But obviously the member for Burin - Placentia West (Mr. Tobin) is not preparec. to learn a nyth i. n<J. ~R ..:.._ ~REN : The same thing with the member for St. Barbe (Mr . Osmond) . MR . N f: /\I~Y: Mr. Speaker, we cannot help that . You can take a harse to water but you cannot make him drink . MR. TOBIN: I am very attentive when someone of substance is speaking - MR .

NEARY: So there is nat much el.se we - - -- can say about this Budget. ~R..:._'!-'013IN: - like y.our House Leader (Mr. uodder) . When he speaks I listen . ::\ Q:.. ,,

July 1, 1982 Tape 1905 PK - 3 HR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, it was a bad Budget. It has no credibility. The Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins) skillfully manipulated the figures, cooked the books to try to make the Budqet look qoon. MR. WARREN: Where did you have lunch to today? MR. NEARY: Everybody knows that $336 million tl n :; •

July l, 1982 Tape No. 1906 so - l MR. NEARY: of borrowing in one fiscal year in this Province which is a record, Mr. Speaker, is the real reason behind his balancing his current account. And I cannot help but repeating, because it does not seem to have sunk in yet, that the minister is moving things into capital account that should be left in current account and then borrowing to pay off his capital programme. That is what the hon. gentleman is up to.

The hon. gentleman, I gave him a list, and the hon. gentleman about a month ago or five weeks ago was going to bring me back the answers and I do not•have the answers yet. It is like the questions we have on the Order Paper. During this session, Mr.Speaker, hon. members must have noticed that my colleagues have been researching night and day questions for the Order Paper. How many questions do we have on the Order Paper now at the present time? MR. WARREN: About 200. MR. NEARY: We have at least, I would say, 100 or 150 questions on the Order Paper. How many have been answered? About ten or a dozen answered.

Ten or a dozen questions answered. They are very slow in answering quest­ ions on the Order Paper and yet my colleagues have taken the trouble and the time to research these questions, which are very good questions, asking for information for the people of this Province, the taxpayers, are entitled to have, and ministers just treat it as a joke, I think the hon. gentleman has probably answered more questions than all the other ministers put together. MR. TOBIN: Well if that is the case, the Minister of Public Works (Mr. Young) answered fourteen of them. 4 il ;; ·i

July 1, 1982 MR. NEARY: answered how many·? MR. YOUNG: 1·1R. NEARY: Tape NO. 1906 so -2 The Minister of Public Works (Mr. Young) Twelve or fourteen. That is what he did not. Mr. Speaker. I asked the Clerk to give me copies of all the answers to questions and if "'e have a dozen ans\.,.ers now that is all \·le have. And this was going to be the government that was going to be open and nothing to hide, nothing to be ashamed of, give the people inform<.u::ion, and we take them ilt Lhcir word and \ve put the questions on the Order Paper and we cannot get the answers. And it looks not.;, Mr.

Speaker, like we have to wait until the Fall of the year to get the ans1vers, if we get them then,because I do not expect the answers to be forthcomin(J, Mr. Speaker, very fr<!ely. l.•le \vill have to use som.e o~her parliamentary technique to try to drag answers Ollt of them. MR. HODDER: They ans'lrer only the ones that do not embarras.s them. MR. NEARY: That is right, they answer the ones that they think are not embarrassing to the administration. Mr. Speaker, they are treating the House with contempt. MR. 1-lARREN: That is right. MR. TOT.)IN: \'lhy do you not let some of your colleagues speak. MR.

NEARY: And I would say this now, Mr. Speaker, I will say this now - MR. W7\RREN: llc is doing a yood job, 'fn foct, he is doing a much better job than you did. MR. NEARY: this Province - MR. WARREN: MR. NEARY: -that the next government of The Liberal government. -and I do not r, n ·: ..

July 1, 1982 Tape 1907 NM - 1 MR. NEARY: care what government it is, the next qovernment of this Province should restore the authority to the floor of this House, restore the power to the House of Assembly, the power that has been stripped away in the last ten years from this han. House. we do not know what goes on down on the eighth floor of Confederation Building. MR. MARSHALL: That is not true at all. MR. l•7ARREN: That is right. That is true. MR. NEARY: The hon.gentleman,who used to be such a great defender of parliament has now thrown his principles out the window.

He does not have a principle left as far as parliament is concern, who used to get up here and tell us that he would lay down his life for the principles of parliament, to protect the rights of parliament. And during the last ten years, under the hon. gentleman's auspicies 1 the power of this House has been stripped away and shifted down to the eighth floor of Confederation Building. And the hon. gentleman has been more responsible for it than any other member of the administration. r1R. MARSHALL: ---·------ Terrible. Terrible. MR. NEARY: Yes, it is terrible.

And any future government should restore the power to this House. Then maybe we would not have to ask so many questions if the estimates were debated on the floor of this House where they should be debated. MR. TOBIN: Your colleagues all supported the change. MR. NEARY: We would not have to put as many questions on the Order Paper. MR. WARREN: No,we never. MR. MARSHALL: ':Jhen you were on this side you were not allowed to ask questions. You never had a Question Period. How is that for democracy? I (1 • • l.4 I 1 .

July 1, 1982 Tape 1907 NM - 2 MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, you know ,I really believe that the hon. gentleman has himself convinced that what he says is true. I think he believes what he says. I really think he really believes what he says. MR ~ CARTER: As opposed to you. MH.. HODDER: If he had his way we would not have a Question Period. MR.

NEARY: The hon. gentleman makes a statement as if it was ~03ryel. r.o~~letely irresponsible, completely untrue, but because the hon. gentleman is such a sanctimonious individual in his thinking that he thinks all his colleagues over there,who look at him wild-zyed with their mouths hanging open nearly jaw locked every day, say "That is right. The hon. gentleman is right.

Because he said that he is right." The hon. gentleman should take the trouble to go down in the Legislative Library and go back over Hansard, go back - I will qo back to twenty years that I am a member of this House, going on twenty-one years - AN HON. MEMBER: There was no Hansard in those days. MR. NEARY: - when I came into this hon. House, Mr. Speaker, when I came into this House - MR. CliRTER: There was no Hansard in 1962. MR. TOBIN: Was there a Hansard then? MR. CARTER: No, there was no Hansard until 1966. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, not only was there a Hansard when I came into the House, but the Hansard was published every day and sent out- MR. CARTER: That is un absolutely untruth. It ii.

July l, 1982 MR. NEARY: by mail - MR. CARTER: MH. NJ<:l\RY: day. MR. TOBIN: Period. MR. NEARY: Tape No. 1908 JC - l -sent out across the Province That is a lie. - sent ~cross the Province every That was when you had no Question Mr. Speaker, we just heard the han. gentleman parroting what his idol just said. The han. gentleman should go down in the legislative library - MR. TOBIN: I was down. MR. NEARY: -dig out the Hansard and go back twenty years, Mr. Speaker, go back twenty years when the han. W.J. Browne and the han. Jim Greene and Mr.

Murphy were members of this l~usc, they should go back and see what was happening in those days. And they should go back, the han. gentleman who looks at the Minister of Energy (Mr. Marshall) with Calf's eyes every day, the han. gentleman should go back and check the transcripts of the proceedings of this House and see what the hon. gentleman used to do when he was on this side. MR. CARTER: MR. SPEJ\KER(AYLWARD): for St. John's North. MR. CARTER:- -A point of order. A point of order. The han. member I cannot sit here and allow a deliberate - well certainly an error, a misrepresentation to take place.

I well recall from the days when I was president of the association and used to come in here and listen to the preceedings of this House, I well recall that there was no ll~ns~rd available to the Opposition at all from 1966 certainly until 1969. Now that is a fact, that is a matter of record, that can be proven. It is wrong and very misleading for the !1 n :: ,~

July l, 1982 Tape 1908 i\11 - 2 MR . CARTER: hon. Leader of the Opposition to suggest that Hansard was available . Sure, the proceedings or this House v;ere recor :ded, but I su~;>pose the only person who had access ~o them was the former, former Premier. MR . NEARY: The hon . gentleman is just wasting time , Mr. Speaker . ~m . SPEAKER (AYLWARD) : To that point. of order : There is no point of order, just a difference of opinion between two hon. members. MR . NEARY : The hon . Leader of the Opposition . Mr .

Speaker, it ~tlould be a worthwhile exercise for mcmbcr·s to go down in th~ lc•J.isl.:~tivc library and check and see what the present Government House Leader was saying when he was on this side of the House . If they want to get an eye opener, if they want to see democracy at work they should go and check ,,

July 1, 1982, Tape 1909, Page 1 -- apb MR. NEARY: the journals and the transcripts of this House and see the hon. W.J.Browne in action, and the hon. gentleman himself in action. I sat on that side of the House and listened to the bon. gentlernan,who had a free hand, Mr. Speaker, in this House, who carne in every day and asked hard- hitting, penetrating questions. Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman had unlimited time, unlimited time! MR. CARTER: There was no Question Period. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman will admit that he could ask questions when- ever he wanted.

And the hon. gentleman did ask questions and did get answers. There was more freedom in the House then than there is now. MR. CARTER: What nonsense! What nonsense! MR. NEARY: Where now we are limited to seventy-five hours, .and the estimates are farmed out to the board rooms, in those days - MR. TOBIN: Your colleagues all supported that. MR. NEARY: They did not support it. MR. WARREN: No, we never did. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, in those days, in case han. gentlemen do not know, there was unlimited time. There was unlimited time for debates, there was unlimited time for the estimates. MR. MARSHALL: Go away. MR.

NEARY: Oh, the hen. gentleman sa.fc;, 'Go away'. Mr. Speaker, the hen. gentleman was more at horne over here than he is over there~ he had a ball. The Han. Government House Leader(Mr. Marshall) had a ball when he was on this side of the House. ~ 11.: -,~

July 1, 1982, ~ape 1909, Page 2 -- apb MR. CARTER: insulted a Liberal's mother. SOME RON. MEMBERS: MR. NEARY : At least he never Hear, hear! He did not? Well, Mr. Speaker, this is Canada's Birthday and I will not go into that. So, Mr. Speaker, we arc rather disappointed with this budget. We think the Finance Minister(Dr. Collins),who is merely acting as Mr. Fix-it, should take his provincial budget down in Robin Hood Bay, use some kind of a flammable liquid and put a torch to it. At the very least, Mr. Speaker, what that would accomplish would be to give the rats that live down there some momentary warmth.

SOME RON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! SOME RON. MEMBERS: Carried! Carried! MR. HEARN: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER(Aylward) : The bon. the member for St. Marys - The Capes. MR. HEARN: Mr. Speukcr, just to mukc sure that all bon. members feel I am not in here to be seen and not heard, I take it upon myself to be heard when I have something worthwhile to say, which is more than I can say for all the bon. gentlemen across the way. SOME RON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.

HEARN: One of the things that perturbs me when we discuss the budget,and all the relevant and irrelevant facts that we have been discussing, is the amount of time that we waste. The hon. Leader across the House stated that they were in favour of keeping the House open. Well, I am sure, so are we all if we can get something done. But if we have to sit and listen 1., n :: ,:,

July 1, 1982 Tape No. 1910 MJ - l MR. L. HEARN: for an hour to irrel evanc ies u.nd accus ations, we are not going to go very far. Consequently I agree with him, we might as well bo. out of het:- c. However, yiving credit where credit is due, I must say that I agree with several of the points he brought up,especially in relation to the fishery. I will not say I will agree wholeheartedly with all the things that he suggested , but the idea that the fishery is in a severe problem riqht now, Perhaps we should draw some attention to this before we depart from this hon. House.

During the week, this present week when we had our holiday on Monday, I found myself out on a wharf in Portugal Cove South up to my knees in fish that could not be sold. During the few previous days in the House, the latter part of last week, we heard all kinds of talk from members opposite, we heard orations on radio and T. v. from mcmbc.'rs of the federal government, from members of the union in particular,about all they were going to do about the present trap glut.

However,on Monday morning when I found myself, and the fisherman in the area found themselves, faced with the situation, they could not get rid of fish that they had, I spent until 2:00 o'clock before I could find anyone who could give me any information whatsoever on the situation. The people from the union,who were working so hard to help the fisherman, had taken the day off and the answering service at th eir office told you to call back after the holiday.

After several phone calls I finally traced one of the representatives to his home and was told that he knew absolutely nothing about the boats they were securing to take up the extra fish. lloweve r, finally on •rues day morning I did get an answer that there was a boat in place in Torbay which would take any excess 1. 11·· <1

July 1,1982 Tape No. 1911 ah-1 MR.HEARN: fish from my area or any area,only to find out that the fishermen in Peter's River, in particular, and Portugal Cove South, would have to truck their fish to Torbay, try to get down in the cove , out on the wharf, rent a boat if they could, getthis (ish out to the boat as well as they could and bring their own men. Consequently, that was entirely impractical.

It took several phone calls to the union,who were very sympathetic I must say, and finally to the Saltfish Corporation,who are handling this whole situation; who,once again,were sympathetic but could do nothincr at a]l to hC'lP our case. Eventually, telexes were sent to the regional representative from the federal Department of Fisheries .and thP Minister of Fisherie~ himself, in Ottawa, 11r. LeBlanc, before we could qct any action wha·tsoevcr, and then all wv received to date, is a sympathetic hearing and hopefully something might be done for the fishermen.

Now, here we have, Mr.Speaker, the fishermen in my area who are having an excellent fish- ing ·,·.1son, an cxccl1ent scilson as far as ciltchi.nq li sh goes MR. NEARY: MR.HEARN: The first in a number of years. My han. friend across the way stated, the first one in a number of years. That is true. The past two or thr('-• years have been disastrous. This year the trar fishery, the gill net fishery, hand line jigger, whatever type they are doing- fish comincr from all directions and the only problew _;_~ thev cannot sell the stuff.

Yesterday,fortunately or unfortunately, was an off day and many of them could not get out. If they had been able to,not only would they not have been ahle to sell the small trap fish,neither would the gill net 1. n, . ~

July l, 1982. Tape No . l9H ah-2 MR.HEARN : ·-- - fishermen and the jigger rishcrmcn be ab.lc to sell their product because the plunts that '"ere taking the larger fish were blocked solid yesterday. Today is also an off day in most of the areas ,consequently the qlut established in the various plants might be slackened a little bit, which would give them a market,may be ,for the next couple of days . If somethin q is not done they are goi ng to find themselves again,at the end of the week ,back in the same situation they were in on Monda~ where in one small community 100,000 pounds of fish was thrown away.

That is a lot of money to fishermen who have not made any in the past two of three years. The catching boats or the I. q I I

July l, 1982 Tape 1912 EC - l MR. HEARN: collector boats, whatever we want to call them, are in place. Two of then1 are established in Torbay. This is of great benefit to the fishermen of St. John's East,but is of no benefit whatsoever to the people up the Shore. One of the reasons that I was given why boats were not put into place up there was simply because there were processing plants in the area and they did not want to walk on the corns of processing plants. Now, by bringing the boats in at all, they are walking on the corns of processing plants, as certainly, my friend, the Minister of Fisheries (Mr.

Morgan) knows and the President of the Business Association, Mr. Wells, certainly knows. They are not in favour of that at all, the various plants, simply because they can see it as a detriment to their own business, not knowing and not caring that the fishermen are stuck with fish they cannot sell and 1 consequently, that fish is not going to be there in three weeks time or four weeks time when their plants can take the product.

So unfortunately, what the federal government seems to be very much unaware of is that the fish plant in Trepassey, which was the one they were referring to, does not take any inshore fish at all, itis strictly supplied by the offshore draggers and kept going year-round, 615 people working there now double shift. They cannot touch the inshore fish. Consequently, a collector boat would not interfere with that plant whatsoever . The fishermen in the area of Portugal Cove South, for instance, sell fish to the very plants that the /, ,-;

,"July l, 1982 Tape 1912 EC - 2 MR. HEARN: people from Torbay and Bauline and the other areas sell to, the O'Brien group in the Witless Bay, Bay Bulls, Tor's Cove area. So apparently, the federal people are unaware, really, of what goes on at the local scene. This is the problem, Mr. Speaker, that the hierarchies in the Department of Fisheries, especially in the federal Department of Fisheries, are entirely unaware of what is going on at the local level. The union people, to a certain extent, several of them, are equally unaware. However, it is up to us,through the Minister of Fisheries (Mr.

Morgan), my colleague here, and the members of the House, each and every one, especially those of us representing fishing districts, not to be satisfied until we bring these problems to the attention of everyone,provincially, federally, union people, etc., to make sure it does not occur this year. One of the fishermen on the wharf in Portugal Cove South on Monday morning carne up to me and said, '~'1e know there will not be too much done this year. Hopefully, something will be done better than it is being done right now.

But for heaven's sake, have something in place for next year. 1 And here is where I ask my hon. colleagues from both sides of the House to put as much pressure as they can on all parties concerned to make sure that something is in place for next year, and,if we are faced with the present situation,that at least there are facilities available that can collect and eventually release to the various plants the fish that is now going over the wharf. I ,-, I '

July 1, 1982 Tape 1913 NM -1 MR. HEARN: Fishermen who have not made money in two or three years, to think that this year they can bring in all kinds of fish and see it thro~~ away, it is a disgrace, it is a heartrending situation. And when you grow up in a boat and you know what it is like to be a fisherman and you see these people, you know, throwing dollars away, it is pretty hard to stand up here and say we can do nothing about it,because I am sure, Mr. Speaker, that we can do something about it. The hon.

Premier in an address some time ago said all problems in relation to the fishery c~n be handled if we have determination enough. I say, Mr. Speaker, I have determination enough to try to do something about it and I am sure my colleagues on both sides of the House, and especially 1 as I mentioned,those from fishing districts, have determination enough to do something about it. And we should not sit by and see this year go by, next year arrive, with nothing better in place than we have riqht now.

Because the whole situation is a very, very sickening one, and unless we do our job and stand up for the rights of the fisherman .we are going to be here next year again talking about trivialities, aR '•Ie have heard the Leader of the Opposition talk about all day, and doing absolutely nothing about the problems that concern us. MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) MR. MORGAN: Thank you. The hon. Minister of Fisheries. Mr. Speaker, I want to commend the last speaker for his comments.

I think he said more in ten minutes than was said in approximately an hour by the Opposition Leader, or the Acting Leader of the Opposition in his speech. Il n ·j

July 1, 1982 Tape 1913 NM - 2 MR. MORG1\N: You know, ~tr. Sp cnker 1 it seems that whenever we have problems in the economy of New£oundland 1 and we have had some problems 1 we have problems across the country of Canada 1 the Opposition Party seem to forget '"hat is happening across the country of Canada . And the fact is that right now we have 1.25 million Canadians unemployed, {, '1 't l

..• July 1, 1982, Tape 1914, Page 1 -- apb MR. MORGAN: but did we see any positive action to stimulate the economy from the most recent budget brought down in Ottawa a few nights ago? Sure we saw a $500 million make work programme for all across the country, $500 million. But there are 1.25 million Canadians unemployed. That means approximately a little less than $500 per Canadian unemployed. Mr.

Speaker, the fact is that the federal government is not dealing with the economic problems; they are not dealing with the economic problems of Western Canada, they are not dealing with the economic problems of Eastern Canada. And one of the major problems in Eastern Canada is the problem associated with the most important industry we have, the fishing industry, not only in Newfoundland. To listen to the Opposition spokesman on fisheries and the Leader of the Opposition you would get the impression that there are no problems in the fishing industry only in Newfoundland.

Well, why are there major plants closed right now in P.E.I? Why are there major plants closed in New Brunswick? Why is it that plants right now, for example, are closed over in Nova Scotia? Is it because there is only a problem in the fishing industry in Newfoundland? \'!e sec blaml'Li the present Minister of Fisheries(Mr. Morgan) for all the problems. When things go wrong I get all the blame, when things go good Mr. LeBlanc in Ottawa gets all the credit. Well, Mr. Speaker, let us be realistic, let us be logical, let us deal with the problems in a realistic way.

I went to Ottawa for meetings in the last couple of days thinking in a very positive way that Mr. MacEachen, who is an Atlantic Canadian, Mr. MacEachen, the Minister of Finance who is from Atlantic Canada, who works in conjunction with Mr. Rompkey from Atlantic Canada, the Newfoundland, r, n i r:

July 1, 1982, Tape 1914, Page 2 -- apb MR . NORGAN: rep in the federal cabinet, with Mr . Regan, and a minister from P.E.I. and other ministers , includinq Hr.

LeBlanc who is also from the Eastern part of Canada, expecting t.hat surely, surely Atlantic Canada 's most important industry, the fishing industry that last year brought in $430 million to our economy in Newfoundland, that finds itself in somewhat of a crisis, not because of management or bad management by the Newfoundland government, primarily because the companies cannot carry inventories of fish because of the high interest rate policy of the federal government - MR. PATTERSON : Hear, hear! MR. MORGAN: That is one of the major reasons .

Sure they can loo k at the weak economy in the U.S ./\., and markets arc somewhat weak, but the picture is that the federal government's policies are affecting the most important industry in Atlantic Canada . And surely, I said to myself, Mr . MacEachen is going to deal, is going to adequately deal with the problems we arc having in the most important industry in his region he stands for in the House of Commons . l. 'l i .,

July, 1982 Tape No. 1915 PK-1. MR. MORGAN: But, Mr. Speaker, all we have heard is the fact that the fishermen arc~ qoinq to h<~vc their income tax collected at source after a certain date. That is one one major thing for the fishermen. The other possibility is that by the end of September, after the head of the exchange, the Montreal Excahnge, now chairman of the committee - anc many businessmen across the country are going to qet together and try t<1 rind w.tys to t·ocommcnd, make recommendations to the federal government as to how to simulate the economy and lower interest rates, maybe then Mr.

MacEachen and Mr. LeBlanc and others will arranqe to have some kind of reduced interest charges to fishermen and to those small businesses carrying on operations in the fishing industry. Yet, at the same time, clearly brought out in the Budget in Ottawa, clearly brought out, was the fact that they were going to spend $200 million for special assistance. Two hundred million is not peanuts - $500 million across the country - but a specific $200 million for a cen<~in inclt~~trv in C.ln;ui.J, ;1 c<'rt-.-Jin industry. But it was not the fishing industry, it wa~ the agricultural industry.

As important as it is to the overall economy of Canada, it \Vas because their voices are stronger in the Western part of the country. MR. TULK: They have a better provincial government. MR. MORGAN : Their voices are stronger. Two hundred million dollars for: farmers. 1\nd I quote the federal Budget, Mr. MacEachen, standing as nice as he was, and as eloquent as he was says, "For those farmers who find themselves in financial difficulty, we will put forward a $200 million programme to the Farm Credit Corporation". "1\nd a further $100 million to overcome t.hci1~ finctncial diffic11ltics".

But was there any special mention of the fishermen? Was there any special mention of the fishing industry, despite the fact that 1. n 1 •·•

July I, 1982 Tape No . 19 15 PK -2 MR . MORGAN : ----------· the y have had a Federal Gov<'t·nmcnt ·rosk I·'orce out thece ,.,orkin 9 Cor the last tRr~e months, or three and a half months? Oh, they have been \vOrking . They have been meeting with councils, and meeting with developme nt assoc iati ons , meeting with the !)t"t>vinc.:i,tl qovc•·nm{ 'nt, mccUnq with the industry , meeting with the union , gathering all po ss ible informat ion on the problems that exist. If they are not aware of the problems that exist in th e fishi ng industry by this time, after three and a half months , when are they going to be a\o~are? 1, n 1 .,

July 1, 1982 Tape No. 1916 so - 1 MR. MORGAN: The fact is they are aware, Mr. Speaker. And I have to say it today in all sincerity, I have no other conclusion to draw, but because the federal level of government is aware of the problems we are having in some of our major industries, including the fishing industry, and aware of the economic problems in Atlantic Canada involving trans­ portation, involving the manufacturing sector and the need for a stimulation in creation of additional new jobs there is no other conclusion, Mr.

Speaker, except to say they do not care about what is happening in Atlantic Canada because there is no politicaJ clout in Atlantic C<.~n<.~tl.:l, there .is no clout l!c'l ."<'. We have no clout in the House of Commons, we have no clout in the system across Canada as part of our Confederation. And why spend millions of dollars to help a few thousand Newfoundland fishermen? Why spend millions of dollars to help an ailing industry because it is only important to the little Province of Newfoundland, that has seven seats in the House of Commons? What is seven SC'ilts in the Ilousc or Commons, wh.:1t is it?

That is the kind of questions posed by the Prime Minister and others. The prime example, Mr. Speaker, is today. The Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) stands in his place and says, Oh, the Minister of Fisheries from Newfoundland is incompetent, he cannot do his job in managing the fisheries. And we have been saying, the Premier and ministers, including myself, we have little or no say over the fishing industry. Despite the fact that it is our most important industry, we have little or not say over the policies developed, formulated, or implemented on the fishing indust~y.

And today the Leader of the Opposition, and I say this sincerely is in a very serious bind. Because a few weeks ago we saw the Kirby I·. :' ') II

July 1, 1982 Tape No . 1916 Sd - 2 t-1R. r-tORG/\N : Task Force deal \-lith a major problem in the district of the Strait of Belle Isle, in the Sl 1 .t i I. 'l'hc uu.:ml><'l" is 11<1t in his sc<~L , l.lut t am convi nc ed that that member, the former Leader of the Liberal Party in Newfoundland, had more influence in dealing with that problem, in Otta wa, than the present acting Leader of the Opposition (Mr . Neary), the in -House leader . And he is finding himself now in a very bad political bind , because major fish plants in two parts of his riding, the major fish plant in Port aux Basques and the fish plant in Rose Blanche, are on the verge of bankruptcy. I, ~~ ? '

July 1, 1982 Tape No. 1917 M.J - l MR. J. MORGAN: They are in serious financial difficulty. But they have made a proposal for assistance. In this case not only to us but also to Mr. Kirby's Task Force, the federal level of government. They are askipg the federal government for Hlillions o[ dt>l tars, thL'y are ,lskin<J the Nl.'wroundl<tnd Government for millions of dollars and they are asking the banks,in the middle,for additional millions of dollars, from their bankers.

And we are saying, there is no way we can carry that burden as a government, we just cannot carry that burden alone to provide all the millions of dollars to keep the fish plants going in the Leader of the Opposition's (Mr. S. Neary) distrLc~, in ·~osc~ lllunchc und Port uux Llu.sques, u.nJ up on the Strait, in r'lower' s Cove, Anchor Point and Cow Head. And we are asking the federal government, 'Show the same kind of preference, or same kind of priority as you did for St. Anthony. Was it because St. Anthony is in the district of a federal minister? Is that the only ~cason why you move into open L1 pl ilnt?

Tin~ not the people down in Port aux Basque just as important, just as good Canadians, just as deserving to have a job in a fish plant?' Tha~ is all we are saying. And the hon. the Leader of the Opposition is in a real political bind,~ecause the federal task force, Mr. Kirby, Mr. Trudeau's right-hand man, who heads that task force, has shown almost contempt for that proposal, and has left Mr.

Hardy, a g0od Newfoundlander, a good local businessman, one of the best, but because of circumstances in the market place,and nigh interest rates,~as found himself in financial difficulties and is merely asking t~e federal government for some help. And I saying to the hon. gentlemen I say to them sincerely,there is no point in lookinq nt Mnr0~n the Minister of Fisheries,~nd blaming it all on him and labelin~ him as incompetent. I am saying to the hon. qentleman, why does he ;, '1 ~~ •

.Jul y I, 1!)82 T<1oe No . J 9 l 7 MJ-2 ~1~t; -~ :-~0!t~;0~.: not ask Mr . Ki.rby? Nhy does the hon . gentleman not ask Mr . Kirby and Mr . LaBlanc, 'Mr . 1 .. 111 L~nc •m<.l ~lr . K i. rby , the people out in Port aux oasque , in my district - I am talking as if I 1.,.er:e the hon . gentleman asking the question - 'They deserve work in that plant , lvhy does not the Kirby Tas k Force give the sam e kind or cnn,;i<.lcr.:Jti.on to the rcqu·~~ts for this plant and the plant down in Rose Blanche, ' in the hon . ge nt leman 's di strict, 'as they gave St.

Anthony in getti ng the plants re -ope ne d and overcoming the financial problems? ' And the han . gentleman is realizing what I a~ saying is true . That is why he is no lonqcr in his seat . There is no point in blaming the Minister of Fisheries ( Mr . Mor qa

n) provincially for all the problems \vc• lt.IV•' ill lho• I ishinq indusl ry. 'I'll<' f;:ll:t is , Mr. Spc~aker , that at a time in our history , w hen , I guess , we have go ne '· fl )

July 1, 1982 Tape 1918 EC - 1 MR.

MORGAN: through,in the last two and one-half years,the most serious problems we have ever encounterL'd in the fishing industry, some of them because of federal government policies, the high interest rate in particular, others because of the weak economy down in the U.S. and weaker markets, others because of the consumer trend to move away from the fresh frozen fish products to fresh fish products and to more poultry products in the market place because of consumer prices, :1 number of Eactors 1 the problem is that this little Province of 500,000 people,with limited revenue to help the resource based industries - and indeed, the Province of Nova Scotia, with a ~ishing industry, that is also important -we expect the government that controls that industry -what did we see recently, Mr.

Speaker? We saw the federal government provide $100 million to the oil industry to help one company, the company Dome of Canada. They arranged a special loan through Petro-Canada to help an oil industry, but can they find a few million dollars to help the fishing industry, Mr. Speaker? Can they find that? That is what is of concern to me.

The fact is that as provincial Minister of Fisheries, and I say it after three years of b~inq in the portfolio -and I have been in four or five portfolios now -it is the most frustrating position ever to be in,because we have no control in changing policies because the control is in Ottawa. They control all parts of the fishery that are important. Someone said a few days ago, 'Oh, well, what is the Newfoundland Government doing about marketing?' So we started on a marketing campaign two years ago. We are selling more fish now [, '1)

July 1, 1982 Tape 1918 EC - 2 1>1R. MORGAN : in markets outside of Atlantic Canada than ever before. All of it is not du e to the eC Cort or the Newfoundland Governmen t but most of it is , in working with the companies . But when the Minister of Fisheries travels with delegations an d with the compan ies from Newfoundland, whether it be in the States or in Europe , we get criticized for doing that . What do we see the federal government doing? Do we see any effort on the part of Mr. LeBlanc to obtain ma .rkets for those companies who cannot sell their fish? No , we do not.

But we see on the other hand, a few days ago the federal minister stands in his place and says the New~oundland minister is all wrong . /, 1 )

July l, 1982 Tape No. 1919 so - l MR. MORGAN He was answering questions from Mr. McGrath, the Newfoundland member of Parliament, who is concerned about fisheries, the former Minister of Fisheries for all of Canada, He said, 'Mr. LeBlanc, is it true that you have an agreement with Spain to take 5,000 metric tons of cod from the Newfoundland fishermen and give it to Spanish fishermen'? Mr. LeBlanc gets on his feet and he says, 'Oh, no, we have no agreement with Spain. The Newfoundland minister is all wrong, I do not: l\now what he is til1king clboul. 'l'hen.' ,1rc ncqotiatinns ongoing 1 but we have no agreement'.

Mr. Speaker, technicallv that minister was right. He was not lying , but he misled the House of Commons,because three days before- !1R. WARREN: That is not true. MR. MORGAN: - the Prime Minister of our country sat down in Spain with officials of the Spanish government and he told them that we will give you, provide you, 5,000 metric tons of cod from the Coast of Newfoundland, from the quota allocated to the inshore fishermen,because he felt the inshore fishermen would not catch that quota this year. That is what happened. Now there is no agreement signed. Mr.

LeBlanc did not come in and sign the agreement that says yes, and the Spanish negotiator says, yes, we will sign. He is right, we did not sign the agreement as a country,but the Prime Minister gave away 5,000 tons of cod. At the same time, by the end of September of this year, like last year and every other year, we will have plants along the Northeast Coast of Newfoundland including ~ogo, including Twillinyate, lncludiny Bonavista North, including Bonavista, Catalina, La Scie and on we go along that coast, we will have plants without fish because the federal government controls this /.. . ) :·

July L 1 982 Tape No . 1919 SD - 2 MR . ~10RGAN : part. • ie have been saying for years , You have got to have fis h taken from the offshore and landed in those plants that normally would be closed the end of September . And ho\v can you have a fish company makinq money if they put in geven and a half to eiqht to nine and a ha lf millions of dollars in a fish plant and the plant is closed do\vn at the end of September or the middle of October? You cannot make money that way .

If you are going t o have an operation of that nature on a seas.onal bas:i,s, with millions of dollars of over head and interest to pay on the money you borrowed to build the plant / you just cannot make money . And all we have been saying to Mr . LeBlanc is, Catch some o.f that fish from the offshore , do not give it away to the foreign cou ntri es , do not give it to the Russians, do not give it to the Japanese, do not give i t to the Spanish, do not give it to anyone outside of Canada /, ~~ ·; 7

July 1, 1982 Tape 1920 PK - 1 MR. MORGAN: when you have plants closed in this Province that need jobs for Newfoundlanders, and need a means of economic return for the companies who own these plants. Now that is federal government policy. Jim Morgan, or the Premier, or anybody else has no control over that. We have no control over how much fish Newfoundland fishermen can catch. We have no control - MR. NEARY: You are in trouble 'Jim'. MR. MORGAN: - of hm.,r many boats can go in the water. At the same time, right now the people on the Labrador Coast a.re stopped from getting better boats.

Why are they stopped from getting better boats? Because, Mr. LeBlanc said, "There are too many boats in the fishing industry." And when travel that coast and I see those fishermen fishing in twenty­ two foot boats with little outport motors, when they want to build a longliner - they apply for a licence and back comes a letter to me, through my office passed on to the fishermen from Mr. LeBlanc saying, "I am sorry, there is a freeze on. There is a freeze on. We will not allow any new entrants into the fishing industry. We cannot let you move nhcud to <1 l <1 nw r boat.

You must carry on fishing in a twenty-two foot boat or a twenty-five foot boat." How unfair a policy is that? But do we hear the hon. gentlemen over there stand on their feet and complain about that? SOME HON. MEMBERS : Sure, sure! MR. MORGAN: We do not hear it in the House of Assembly, Mr. Speaker. Well, that means to say the Liberal Party in Newfoundland has no influence on the Liberal Party in Ottawa.

Because if they are against these policies, if the Liberal Party of the Province is against these policies that are so bad for the fishing industry in Newfoundland, if they are opposed to them, that means that they have no I. r: ~) -:

July 1, 1982 Tape 1920 PK - 2 MR . MORGAN : influence with the minis~ers in Otta wa in changing these decision s. o·tR . AND!U::\o/S: In their own party . MR . MORGAN : That is even \-'orse again. They cannot get their O\ffl party to change the bad policies . How about the policy of giving the Russians 103,000 metric tons of fish . t-1R . ANDR!:!WS : Oh ,my God ! MR . MORGJ\N: How about that policy? Now I must say the Opposition did support the government on that one, but still what did we see? Six weeks after that we saw the Federal Minister sit down through Mr .

Campbell in his department, Tony Campbell , Chief Negotiator, a good civil servant- but he likes to aivP. away our fish for some reason , he nas been doing it every year for the last three or four years. NR. S'l'J\GG : MR . MORGAN : MR . SIMl"ll:>: MR. MORGAN : standing up and sayino He has got friends in Europe. Pe sits down \'l'ith Poland . Eastern Europe .

After the Opposition spo keswen yes,unanimouslv in the House of Assembly of Newfoundland , we want the Federal Minister to stop giy ing away our fish, it is important to our fishermen, import .ant to our fishing industry, we support the Minister of ~isheries ~nd the Newfoundland Government) stop giving away our fish, What happens? /, '1 ') • !

July 1, 1982 Tape No. 1921 MJ - l ~..R. J . MORGAN: No longer than three and a half weeks after that we see a story from Cttawa on CP, Canadian Press, with a federal minister sitting down now neqotiating with another countrv, with Spain.

Sitting down with Poland, rather, Spain carne after, Poland three and-a-half weeks after the House of Assembly passed a motion unanimously condemning Ottawa, which leaves a clear im?ression that the Newfoundl~nd Liberal Party, d0~pite the fact they a1~ of the san~ stripe as the Liberal Party - >IJVi.ously, Uw p<..! rty in Ottc~wct is ol the same stripe, but they have no influence in chanqiny decisions and changing policies of that government. ·' Now, ~1r. Speaker, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. S. Neary) said that we are going to have chaos in the fishing industry. MR. S. NEARY: We have it now.

Not 1.re are going to have it . MR. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker, unless we see a change of attitude on behalf of the T. J. Hardy operations over in the Leader of the Opposition's district, we are going to have chaos over in Port aux Basques. We will have chaos in Rose Bli:mche. 1\nrl f <lnl s~1yinq, MI-. :.;p<'ili<(•J·, t!l.lt- til<' hon. gentleman is now back in his seat- if he thinksthere is going to be chaos,let him influence his colleagues in Ottawa, the minister up there and Mr. Kirby,and get some action to resolve a problem in his cwn riding. MR. STAGG: Catch Mr. Rornpkey before he leaves the building. MR.

MORGAN: There is not only qoinq to be choas in the fishing industry, there is going to be choas in this country. Why is there going to be choas in this country? Because, Mr. S>e~ker, the stock market is tumbling everyday, number one; the dollar is going down everyday, number two; interest rates are going to go up, number three. And what do we llave? We l1aVt2 a Covernmt2nt in Ottawa Lhu.t hus lost u11 I.Cl~Jn

:July 1, ]982 Tape No. 1921 MJ-2 MIL "'ORc;AN : confidence oC Lhc people . \Vbat did you hear in the last few days? You hear the Economic Council of Canuda condcmninc; federal gover -nment policies on the economy . You hear the Manufactures Association of Canada condemning the policies of the feder<ll ~1overnme nt on economic matters . And I can go on. You hear the Small Business Enterpri se A-ssociation condemninq the federal government policy on economic matters . Mr.

Spea ker, the fact is just a few days ago the Federal Business Developme nt Bank , which loans 111• llli'Y I n t hnus.' nd!~ t> t ~;111,11 I cou1p:m i \'); . H·ro~;s C,1n,u1.1, con r i rmcd thilt they ure going to lose approximately $100 million this yeat . J\nd their comment was made nati onally, sayin g that there are companies now \vh ich have been seventy -fiv e years in business - not new ventures, it is not new venture capitol , they were st~ble companie s over the years, as long as seventy-five years , and arc now finding themselves in financial difficu~ty and on tha brink of bankruptcy !

J\nd why is this , Mr. Speaker? Is it only happening in New fou ndland? The fact is that in this debate, and I want to emphasis this - and the members of the Opposition do not \vant to hear these things, but they are fact . l 'l ·, • . .

July 1, 1982, Tape 1922, Paae 1 -- apb MR. TULK: SOME RON. MEMBERS: MR. MORGAN: I am listening. Oh, oh! At a time when the Minister of Finance(Mr. MacEachen) in Ottawa, Mr. Speaker, came forward,a few days ago and said, Oh, I was all wrong, Canadians, ladies and gentlemen across Canada - through the television screens - I was all wrong, is what he was saying, I thought we were going to have a $10 billion deficit for all of Canada. l-1y estimation was, oh, a $10.5 billion deficit for the Government. of Canud<:J. What do we find, Mr. Speaker? We now find it is going to go to $19.5 billion. MR.

ANDREWS: $19.6 billion. Shame! Shame! MR. MORGAN: $19.5 billion deficit. At a time when Ottawa,at a time when the national government of our country cannot control deficit spending, cannot control an out of control, double what was projected last Fall, in the budget last Fall, what does the present Minister of Finance(Dr. Collins) in Newfoundland do? What does he do? Is he bringing in a large deficit in his budget? SOME RON. MEMBERS: No. MR.

MORGAN: Despite the fact that we do not have the revenues to get the sources to do things with, financial sources, despite the fact we do not have that industrialized base to qet the revenue from, despite the fact we have natural resources flowing away, fish stocks being given away, hydro power we are not getting revenue from, our offshore resource~. oil and gas, not being developed, despite all these things we have no revenue from, what does the present Minister of Finance do? He does not bring in a budget with a deficit. 4 f) :, .-,

July 1, 1982, Tape 1922, Page 2 -- apb MR. MORGAN : No deficit. Yet, the Government of Canada is saying to us in Newfoundland, Look, Mr . Minister of Tourism(Mr. Winsor) , look, Mr. Minister of Forestry(Mr . Power), look, Mr . Minister of Energy (!>lr. :~ar"'h•· · · 1 , "1d v • ..,?c 1s ible fo r hydro, look, Mr. Min is te' oi ' ·elo p: :ent (Mr. Windsor), we know you have problems down in Newfoundland, we know you have problems with your resource based industries, we know you are going to have problems , but we are counting on the local Liberal Party in Newfoundland to blame it all on you fellows .

We are counting on that . The more they can blame it on you fellows, the local government, the more we are off the hook in Ottawa , so why should we do anything? We will let you bear the brunt of all the problems in the fishing industry . \ve will let the Newfoundland Minister of Fisheries bail out the fish ing companies as he has done in the past three or four months and get the plants opened, t. '1 J.

--·· ~ July 1, 1982 Tape 1923 EC -1 MR. MORGAN: we will let the Minister of Fisheries go out and find necessary markets down in the States and over in Europe and over in Japan, we will let the Minister of Fisheries nail the companies and say, 'Get your act together1 change your management, make your plants more efficient , get your co-ordination in the market place~ Let the Newfoundland Government do all that. Let them do that. And in the meantime, give them all the blame for all the ills in the economy. Mr.

Speaker, the fact is that the Liberal Party in Newfoundland, if they are sincere as Newfoundlanders, and I am sure they are sincere Newfoundlanders, I would not doubt that, any one of them -we have to stand and recognize that unless we get a change in direction from the people making the decisions on our economy in Ottawa, yes, indeed, we are going to have problems in the fishing industry, 1:1c are going to have problems in the forest indus~ry, we are going to have problems in tourism, l!e are going to have problems in all matters relating to the economy. MR. NEARY; with you. MR.

MORGAN: The only problem we have is Now, there he goes again, Mr. Speaker. The hon. gentleman who is going to have a plant possibly close in his district in the next short while, according to the information we have - MR. TULK: That,is your problem. MR. MORGAN: He is saying, 'Oh, it is the Newfoundland minister's problem. Yet the same member realizes he is now in a b.ind because Mr. Kirby is not showing him the same kind of consideration that he showed the member for the Strait. The member for the Strait (Mr. Roberts) has more influence. He is bhat brilliant /, .· ·',

July l, 1982 Tape 1923 EC - 2 MR. MORGAN: young lawyer from Newfoundland, Mr. Kirby knows Mr. - I should not say his name, because he is a member, we all know who he is talking about. Mr. Kirby had more respect for that member than he has for the member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary). MR. ANDREWS: He should believe it. MR. MORGAN: That is right. So, Mr. Kirby comes in and deals with the member for the Strait (Mr. Roberts), and resolves the problem up in St.

Anthony, but just casually pushes the other aside, which is quite unfair to the member for the area, quite unfair to the workers in the plant, quite unfair to the fishermen in the area. Why give preference to one area of the Province and not the other? MR. STAGG: He gave it (inaudible) to the people of l·'ox I slund !liver. MR. MORGAN: So, Mr.

Speaker, I am saying that it is time for all members of the House, the Opposition in particular, to recognize that if we are going to have a vibrant fishing industry, or a vibrant tourism industry, or a vibrant forestry industry, ot agriculture, or any other part of our resource based industries, we are going to have to 90t a chunge of attitude, a change of policy, a change of direction from the government that calls the shots on most of these industries, and I am talking about the government in Ottawa, Mr. Speaker.

And I sincerely hope that they will not try to continue in the future to blame, when we have problems, blame them all on this government here, and when suddenly something is good, to give the credit to Ottawa, because I) , ; ~

July 1, 1982 Tape 1924 TM - 1 MR. MORGAN: the fact is, Mr. Speaker, that it is time, it is time for Ottawa to recognize that we should be all workh1q toqethe' , If no