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April 16, 2013

40th Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2013-Apr-16 (PDF)

L025 - Tue 16 Apr 2013 / Mar 16 avr 2013

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Tuesday 16 April 2013 Mardi 16 avril 2013

ORDERS OF THE DAY

HIGHWAY TRAFFIC STATUTE LAW

AMENDMENT ACT, 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

EN CE QUI CONCERNE

LE CODE DE LA ROUTE

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

BOSTON TRAGEDY

VISITORS

ORAL QUESTIONS

POWER PLANTS

POWER PLANTS

POWER PLANTS

POWER PLANTS

POWER PLANTS

POWER PLANTS

GO TRANSIT

POWER PLANTS

HEALTH CARE FUNDING

IMMIGRANT SERVICES /

SERVICES AUX IMMIGRANTS

POWER PLANTS

CORRECTIONAL SERVICES

BEEKEEPING INDUSTRY

POWER PLANTS

PROPERTY TAXATION

CORRECTION OF RECORD

DEFERRED VOTES

AMBULANCE AMENDMENT ACT

(AIR AMBULANCES), 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 MODIFIANT

LA

LOI SUR LES AMBULANCES

(SERVICES D’AMBULANCE AÉRIENS)

MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS

BOSTON TRAGEDY

TENANT PROTECTION

ISRAELI INDEPENDENCE DAY

RONALD JOHN EDWARDS

EQUAL VOICE

WOMEN’S ISSUES

DON BUMSTEAD

FATHER SERRA SEPARATE SCHOOL

RALPH KLEIN

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE

ON GOVERNMENT AGENCIES

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

CHILDREN AND YOUTH IN CARE

DAY ACT, 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 SUR LE JOUR

DES ENFANTS ET DES JEUNES

PRIS EN CHARGE

ORDER OF BUSINESS

PETITIONS

AIR QUALITY

GOVERNMENT SERVICES

AUTOMOBILE INSURANCE

SPRINGWATER PROVINCIAL PARK

AIR-RAIL LINK

AGRI-FOOD INDUSTRY

AIR QUALITY

DOG OWNERSHIP

ELECTORAL BOUNDARIES

AIR QUALITY

AIR-RAIL LINK

AGRI-FOOD INDUSTRY

WIND TURBINES

WIND TURBINES

TIRE DISPOSAL

ORDERS OF THE DAY

LOCAL FOOD ACT, 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 SUR

LES ALIMENTS LOCAUX

ADJOURNMENT DEBATE

WASTE DIVERSION

SOCIAL ASSISTANCE

TOURISM

The House met at 0900.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Good morning. Please join me in prayer.

Prayers.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

HIGHWAY TRAFFIC STATUTE LAW

AMENDMENT ACT, 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

EN CE QUI CONCERNE

LE CODE DE LA ROUTE

Resuming the debate adjourned on April 10, 2013, on the motion for second reading of the following bill:

Bill 34,

An Act to amend the Highway Traffic Act in respect of permit denials and out-of-province service and evidence in certain proceedings and to make a consequential amendment to the Provincial Offences Act / Projet de loi 34, Loi visant à modifier le Code de la route en ce qui concerne les refus relatifs aux certificats d’immatriculation et la signification et les preuves extraprovinciales dans certaines instances, et à apporter une modification corrélative à la

Loi sur les infractions provinciales.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Further debate?

Mr. Frank Klees: Thank you, Speaker. I look forward to the next 59 minutes and 58 seconds to discuss this riveting bill before us. With your permission, I will on occasion drift somewhat, but not far, because I realize that we’re committed to speaking to the issue at hand.

I’m concerned that we’re opening the business of this House today in the wake of yet another special report by the Auditor General that confirms what opposition parties have been saying for a number of months now, and that is that the decision by the Liberal Party of Ontario to cancel the Mississauga gas-fired power plant to save the seat of the now Minister of Finance in the 2011 election cost the taxpayers of this province at least $351 million. Assuming that these costs can be offset by an estimated $76 million, the auditor confirmed that the cost to the taxpayers will be at least $275 million.

Speaker, here’s what the Auditor General said in his press release yesterday: “In 2005, the government contracted with the builder, Greenfield South Power Corp., for a 280‑MW natural-gas-fired”—

Hon. John Milloy: On a point of order, Madam Speaker: I think we all recognize the fact that, particularly during an hour-long speech, members may do a bit of a tour of the horizon, but he has begun his speech on the Highway Traffic Act speaking about the Auditor General’s report. I believe the standing orders would say he should be speaking to the Highway Traffic Act.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): I will listen carefully. I know that the member has already mentioned the breadth of his discussion, and I’m listening carefully.

Mr. Frank Klees: Speaker, you will recognize the segue that I will take, and there is a reason, because the context within which the Minister of Transportation is bringing his bill forward, which is all about collecting unpaid fines from, as the minister referred to them in his speech, lawbreakers in this province—it’s important that we have a good sense of what the fiscal framework is of this province.

With your permission, I’d like to just finish what I was reading—again, I hope uninterrupted this time by the government House leader.

I quote from the Auditor General: “In 2005, the government contracted with the builder, Greenfield South Power Corp., for a 280-MW natural-gas-fired electricity generating plant in Mississauga. After various and extensive delays, construction of the Mississauga plant began in June 2011. Shortly before the October 6, 2011, general election, the Liberal Party announced it was cancelling the already started construction of the plant. Shortly after the election, the re-elected minority government directed the OPA to negotiate the cancellation with Greenfield.”

Speaker, we have before us a bill that the Minister of Transportation brought forward, and rightfully so. I’ll say at the outset that the PC caucus will be supporting passage of this bill. We believe wholeheartedly that those who break the law and are convicted and are issued fines should pay those fines.

Whether those convicted are residents of this province or whether they’re visitors to this province, we also believe that the mechanism should be there to ensure that those fines are paid, especially given the fact that most of those fines that are captured in this bill are owed to municipalities across this province. When we know that at this point in time there are close to $1 billion of unpaid fines that are owed to those municipalities, it just simply makes good sense that we in this Legislature would accommodate an effective collection of those unpaid fines.

So the principle, we agree with. We will, however, make some recommendations. I’m going to have, over the course of this debate, some questions for the Minister of Transportation, because I believe that, new to his portfolio, there may well be some issues within his ministry of which he is not yet aware, and those of us who have had some experience in this House would like to appeal to the minister to take whatever time he needs to thoroughly investigate what I’m about to bring to his attention.

All of these changes that the minister has referred to in terms of collection of fines, in terms of working with the court system to ensure that the appropriate mechanisms are in place—the minister referred to the fact that, through regulation, he will be making retroactive the capacity of collecting on these fines; I believe he said seven years is how far back he will go. So we have circumstances where individuals who failed to pay their fine would be getting a notice in the mail, I’m assuming.

The question we have here is a very important one. This is the first question I have for the minister: Is the minister aware of the problems that he has within his ministry, within the ability of the minister to assure us that the information they have in their files is accurate, is up to date, and that the addresses they have for those individuals who may well be caught and be identified as not having paid fines—that that information is in fact accurate?

I’m going to give the minister some examples of why I have a concern. I’m going to ask the minister to bear with me on this, because I always find that there is nothing quite as effective as examples that are very practical.

The first one that I want to draw to the minister’s attention—and by the way, I want to just make a point with the minister. There is an individual in your ministry who deserves a great deal of credit. Her name is Elena Tersigni. This is someone within the ministry who I got to know when I was the minister there and who I believe is one of the most conscientious civil servants in the government of Ontario. She will go out of her way to accommodate requests.

Minister, I’m going to ask you to do this: Do a review of her branch, do a review of her area of responsibility—and my advice would be that you have a third party do that review, with a view to determining what the resources are in that branch of your ministry to do the job that needs to be done. I’m convinced that while there are hard-working individuals within that branch, they are far from supported with the appropriate resources to get the job done.

That’s why many of us in this place—and I would be surprised if the minister himself has not had this kind of feedback from his constituents, in terms of the delays that our constituents experience. Those delays translate into significant hardships in the lives of constituents, in the lives of Ontarians, right across this province.

I’ll start off with the first example. In this particular case—I’m going to read from a letter that my constituent sent me: “I left for Myrtle Beach (by car) on February 19 returning on March 5, 2011. Upon my return I opened the mail to find a letter from the ministry suspending my driver’s licence on February 22 for an unpaid traffic fine which I discovered was dated some nine and a half years previously. I can recall the specific incident and the specific payment as these don’t happen that often with me.

The court office stated that without proof of payment there was nothing they would do about negating the issue. I note that a copy of the ticket is stamped ‘Licence suspension—January 4, 2011.’

“I don’t keep bank or other records for nine and a half years nor do I suspect do either yourself nor anyone else.

“The office claimed that they mailed me a ‘heads-up’ but (

a) I suspect that they really didn’t ... or (

b) it would have been sent to an address that I vacated some many years ago and would have been undelivered. In any event they could have easily determined the proper address with a call to yourselves,” that is, to the ministry.

I will not read the balance of the letter, but I will provide a copy of it to the minister. Here is the issue: an example, minister, of a letter that was sent to someone on an incident nine and a half years in the past. These letters are not being sent out by registered mail. I don’t know what the minister has in mind, Speaker, in terms of notification to these individuals who have outstanding penalties or outstanding fines from up to seven years ago. As was noted by my constituent—I think I keep fairly good records.

But if it comes to a matter of debating or challenging the Ministry of Transportation about whether I paid it or challenging the court as to whether I paid it, do I have a copy of that cheque? Maybe. Do I have a copy of a receipt? Maybe. But here’s the point: This constituent received a letter—not a registered letter, so there was no guarantee that that individual would have received the suspension notification. He’s on holiday; he’s driving in Myrtle Beach. He got a notice not advising him that his licence would be suspended 30 days from now; his licence is suspended. Speaker, what are the implications of that?

Well, one implication is that had that individual had an accident, a collision that resulted in property damage, resulted in the loss of life, the first thing that would have happened is that his insurance would have been invalid because he’s driving without a valid driver’s licence. The implication to that individual in his personal life—his finances, his entire family—could have been catastrophic.

I’ve said this a number of times: I believe when we’re dealing with something as important as someone’s driver’s licence, surely the ministry has a responsibility to ensure that if you’re notifying someone that their licence has been suspended, we go the extra mile and we do that by registered mail. There has to be some way that we can confirm that that individual who is being advised of a suspension actually received that notice. So I would leave that with the minister and ask him to look into that, and I would appreciate a response from the minister on that request.

Speaker, I have another issue. This is one that causes considerable concern. I don’t know about other members, but the number of complaints that I get—it’s not really a complaint. It really is an appeal from constituents about how vision tests are handled by the Ministry of Transportation.

I’m going to take the time to read this letter into the record. The reason is because I think it will give the minister an opportunity to look very carefully at how these matters are handled. This is from my constituent Pat Morris. I’m using her name because I have authorization to do that. I’m going to quote from her April 20, 2012, letter. It goes as follows:

“Let me begin with that both Richard”—Richard being her husband—“and myself completely understand that driving is considered a privilege and not a right, and respect that.

“As part of the vision waiver, a letter is sent from the Ministry of Transportation every year advising Richard that his vision waiver report is due. This form letter states…..

“‘The report must include monocular Humphrey full field 12-point screening test with fixation losses not exceeding 20% or Goldman 60-degree perimetry charts using a 1114e test size object with monitored reliability, and an Esterman binocular functional test with false positive/negative errors not to exceed’”—

Interjections.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Excuse me just for a moment. I’d just ask if you would take the conversation outside. It’s difficult to hear the speaker. Thank you.

Please continue.

Mr. Frank Klees: Thank you. Speaker, I can’t believe that my own colleagues aren’t—I thought that my colleagues would be spellbound by my remarks this morning. Speaker, this is on their behalf and their constituents’ behalf as well. I would ask that the next member who is so disrespectful—that you would ask them to leave. Just throw them right out of this place.

Interjection.

Mr. Frank Klees: Thank you.

I’ll continue where I left off: “‘and an Esterman binocular functional test with false positive/negative errors not to exceed 20% or a Goldman binocular field test using 1114e test object with the test’s reliability confirmed. This reports must be returned to this office by’” a certain “‘date determined by the ministry or driver’s licence will be suspended.’”

Here’s the rest of the story: “[O]n more than one occasion, I have attempted to contact the Ministry of Transportation, with no success.” Speaker, these are seniors. They receive a letter that is very complex. They have legitimate questions. They want to comply. They try to contact the ministry, and they can’t. “The most recent attempt was on April 17, 2012, at which time I was on hold for 57 minutes before hanging up. What the recording stated is, ‘We are experiencing a high volume of calls; the estimated wait time is 30 minutes.’”

These are people who are dealing—they’re not ordering a pizza here; they’re dealing with important matters that affect their day-to-day life. If the ministry can’t get this part of it right, my concern is that there’s a lot of other concern that we have in terms of the Ministry of Transportation being able to administer the bill that’s before us. Thirty minutes—I ask the minister: Will you at least check into doing what Air Canada does? Not that I’m singing Air Canada’s praises, because Lord knows they’ve got their own problems.

But here’s what they do get right: If there is a long time that people are being held on hold, what that system allows you to do is to key in your telephone number, and they will call you back, so you’re assured that you can get on with whatever you’re doing and at least someone is going to call you back. The frustration of people in this province with the Ministry of Transportation is that they do their utmost to comply and then we make it impossible. This is not something that is earth-shattering; it’s not groundbreaking, Minister.

These are systems that are in place, and I would ask the minister to please look into this.

I’m going to continue this, because the next part of what Ms. Morris shares with us is particularly concerning. “Another instance was when I submitted the required tests to the ministry well before the required date.” They were trying to do their part. “You can imagine my husband’s horror when he received a letter from the ministry advising that his licence was suspended. No reason provided. I remember this day very clearly, as it was on a Friday, and when I arrived home, Richard showed me the correspondence from the Ministry of Transportation.

I called the number on the letter and, strangely enough, someone actually answered the phone. Shocking to me! Realizing that I could not talk to the ministry, I explained the reason behind the call, then put Richard on the phone, who questioned as to why his driver’s licence was suspended. He was told at that time that the ministry had not received the requested paperwork.... I explained/confirmed to the ministry that in fact they did have the required paperwork as it had been sent” by “registered mail.” You see?

My constituents are a little more thorough than the ministry is; they sent their information in by registered mail. “The gentleman put us on hold and returned on the line within 15 minutes, confirming that in fact the ministry did have the paperwork, and further elaborated that no one had entered into the system that the vision waiver report had been received by the Ministry of Transportation. This gentleman then reviewed the test and reinstated Richard’s licence immediately.”

I say to the minister, we have a problem here. Once again, put yourself into the shoes of my constituent. Not only did they comply; they went the extra step, submitted the information in advance of the due date, sent it by registered mail, and he got a suspension letter in the mail. The minute you get that suspension letter—not a warning, not saying, by the way, “We’re going to suspend your licence 10 days from now if you don’t reply.” No. It’s a suspension notice. Your licence is suspended.

That individual can’t leave the house, can’t take the car, whether it’s to a doctor’s office, whether it’s to go shopping, whether it’s to visit a spouse in the hospital, whatever the issue is. It’s automatically suspended—unjustifiably so, I say to the minister.

There should be no room for error here. If we allow that there are going to be errors, then I say to the minister, at the very least, do what I’m recommending and ensure that these letters that go out are sent by registered mail. And is it not reasonable under these circumstances that we provide a period of time so that there can be some communication so that, whatever matter has not been complied with, the individual is given some time to do it?

I’m going to give the minister another example here. This is an email that I asked my staff to provide me as an example, and I’m going to read this. It’s from my assistant in my constituency office, Jacqueline Flowers. She writes, “On January 2, 2013, a Newmarket resident called in to get assistance with her driver’s licence reinstatement. It was reported in 2010 that she had a seizure and licence was suspended and reinstated shortly after sorting this out.

In October 2012, she applied for a B licence and was told that it could not be granted until they get information supporting that she is okay.” In other words, this goes back to the fact that this seizure was on one side of the file, but the fact that it had been resolved never got transferred to the other side of the file. “She said it was submitted. Now she’s getting the runaround and she needs this for a job.

Spoke to MTO and was advised that our constituent was already speaking to someone at MTO”—in other words, they acknowledged that there is dialogue going on—“and was advised that her file was sent to the medical review panel. A decision should be made within the next few days. Followed up on January 10 and her B licence was issued on January 7.”

The issue here is that, once again, we have a problem with our transfer of information. Does the left hand know what the right hand is doing? Every time that we have this conflict, there’s someone who’s experiencing hardship. This licence was necessary for a job; it was delayed. And the consequences are not with the ministry. Look, they carry on. The consequences are with—whether it’s a senior, whether it’s a young person—whoever it is who needs that licence to get from point A to point B to get on with their life.

Speaker, I have a letter here from another constituent, Andrew Atkinson. I’m going to read this into the record. This is dated March 25, 2013:

“I recently received a letter from the Ministry of Transportation indicating that I must forfeit my driving licence immediately due to ‘psychiatric condition.’ This was shocking to me....While the identity of who reported me to MTO is protected, I suspect it was” Southlake hospital in Newmarket, where he had attended for an ER visit. He says, “They released me that night with no prescriptions or follow-up appointments.

“I did turn in my licence right away when I read the notice. It appears that being conscientious about this matter just means I lose my ability to drive that much earlier. It is not suspended for a particular number of days, so handing in sooner increases the total time without a licence.” The constituent did the right thing. He got the notice of suspension; he handed in his licence.

He goes on to say:

“Taking the bus to the city takes at least twice as long. As such, I could not respond to job offers I had applied to, not expecting to suddenly lose my licence.

“I am considering dropping out of university too. I’m a top-performing student in terms of grade point average.”

The bottom line is this with regard to this letter, I say to the minister: We have a serious problem with our reporting mechanism—that medical doctors are required to report to the MTO. Look, we all fully support and we pass legislation here that requires an that if attending physician, or anyone attending to a patient in this province, suspects that there may be a problem with that person being able to properly drive, there has to be a report to the MTO. But here’s the problem: Many times, that attending physician says not a word to the patient.

The patient has no idea that this correspondence is now taking place between the attending physician and the MTO. There is no opportunity for that individual, for that driver, to take whatever steps may be necessary to alleviate the suspicion of that attending physician. Keep in mind, this is not a confirmation on the part of the attending physician; this is merely a suspicion, a sense, having has some reason to believe there may be a problem. So what was intended to be a warning or an alert or a caution now becomes a sentence for that individual.

They get a notice of suspension, they can’t drive, and they don’t even know the reason.

Now the process begins, and that process is something else that I’m going to ask the minister to please look into. In fact, I really think that whether it’s the Auditor General or whether it is the Ombudsman, I believe that we need a thorough review of how our medical review system in this province works, because now it is the onus of responsibility of the constituent, of the resident, to seek out all of the follow-up reports or the medical examinations or the specialist reports that are now required by the ministry.

The rest of the story is this: The minister should know that, first of all, it can take weeks, if not months, to get an appointment with that specialist. All that time the person can’t drive, can’t go to work, can’t perform any of his or her normal duties. Once that medical report is with the ministry, the policy—this isn’t even left to chance—they are immediately told that it will take between six to eight weeks to get a response from the ministry. How can that be?

The minister is new in his job. This is not the first time that this has been brought to the attention of a Minister of Transportation. I’m asking the minister to take a fresh look at this.

I can tell you that from previous research that I’ve done, the solution is very simple. You see, one of the reasons that it takes six to eight weeks is that when those reports come in they’re put into a stack—and by the way, the medical officers who now review those reports, most of them are part-time. They get to them when they get to them. I’m not saying that they’re not working hard. I’m not saying that the staff in this department isn’t working hard. In fact, I have to tell you, I compliment the staff who are there, because when we make those follow-up calls, they are very responsive.

But we feel guilty for making those calls, because the last thing we want to do, as members, is to ask someone to go into a stack of files and pull someone out and have someone dealt with in any special way simply because the MPP calls. That’s not right.

It’s a matter of a lack of resources, I say to the minister. I believe that something as important as an individual’s ability to drive is not something that we should be shortchanging. I realize we have to be looking for efficiencies in all aspects of government, but this is not one of those areas—yes, efficiencies, but not cutbacks; yes efficiencies, but make sure that we have the appropriate resources available to the staff who are charged with the responsibility of carrying out that work.

The other concern that I have about this vision testing is that apparently, with regard to one of those procedures, there are only seven locations in the entire province that have the particular technology, the equipment, that’s required for one of those vision tests. I have to believe—I’ve been told by ophthalmologists that that is an outdated approach to these tests, that there is equipment available right across the province that can deliver the same results and the same tests that many ophthalmologists have in their own offices. So I ask, why are we limiting it to these seven locations?

My constituent in Aurora has to drive to Barrie to have that test. I ask the minister, does that make sense? Are you telling me that we should be directing people to drive miles and miles to get a test that they can get in their own hometown? I’ll look forward to hearing from the minister on this.

I’d like to shift the discussion, if I could, to another area of the ministry, and it’s consistent with the discussion that we’re having here. It again relates to the minister’s responsibility to ensure efficiency within his ministry. I’ve mentioned this to him before. The only reason is that when I look at my correspondence that relates to the Ministry of Transportation, I have a number of constituents who have been contacting me about their frustration with the Presto card system. I raised this issue with the former minister. I have held press conferences here. I have had meetings with Mr.

Prichard, the chair of Metrolinx, as well as the CEO. I’ve had meetings with representatives of the TTC on this issue. When the minister was first appointed, we had a meeting, and I appreciated very much the opportunity to exchange some thoughts. I pointed out to the minister my concern with what is happening on that file. With your permission, Speaker, I’ll set the context.

We are fully supportive of a fully integrated transit system across the greater Toronto and Hamilton area. It’s essential, which is one of the reasons we’re proposing that the responsibility for coordinating our transit system across the GTHA be uploaded, so that there can be not only a governance structure that fully coordinates and integrates that system, but also operational. As part of that fully integrated transit system, we need a fare card that is also fully integrated, so the concept initially was right.

A number of years ago, Presto, which would become the branded name of this fare card system, was initiated really through the Ministry of Transportation. As time went on, the development of that card continued. Fast-forward to the TTC. The TTC decided two years ago that they wanted an electronic fare card system, but they wanted a fare card system that was current technology, an open-payment system.

What is the difference between an open-payment system and a closed-loop system, which we have with Presto? Here’s the difference: With Presto, you have to load up that card. Yes, you can tap it and yes, you can use it, but it continually has to be loaded up with value—fair enough. It cannot be used for any purpose other than the transit system. There are electronic fare card systems in use around the world today that are open payment. In other words, they’ll accommodate the Presto card system but they will also accommodate a credit card, they will accommodate a bank card.

So regardless of where we are, that system can be accommodated. Whether it’s someone who lives in the area here, a local resident, or whether it’s a visitor from elsewhere, you’ve got a credit card, you can use it.

The TTC, wanting that advanced technology, put out a request for proposal. They received initially, I believe, something in the range of eight responses. Ultimately, as the details and requirements were made clear, it ended up down to two proponents, and finally there was a selection of one supplier who could meet all of the requirements. That supplier was ACS Xerox, fully compliant with all of the requirements that the TTC had set out in its request for proposal.

The TTC decided to move ahead. They were well along, in terms of their analysis of that proposal, and ready to sign a contract when they received a call from Metrolinx. The call from Metrolinx said, “Put a stop on this. We are asking you—in fact, we’re directing you—to put an end to that discussion. You shall use the Presto card.” The TTC responded by saying this: “First of all, we’ve just gone through a public process, a transparent, open bidding process, and we have concluded, based on that process, that this proponent, this supplier, can best meet our needs.

Second, based on our analysis,” the TTC said, “the Presto card system would cost us $300 million more in capital costs to implement.” The proponent’s proposal, ACS Xerox’s, involved zero upfront money. They were absorbing the capital investment and would recover it over time.

There was $300 million that the TTC said, “Wait a minute. We can’t afford to pay $300 million.” Here was the response by Metrolinx—and I say to the minister, he was not the minister at the time—obviously with the full endorsement of the Ministry of Transportation, because Metrolinx could not have taken that decision unilaterally: “You will use Presto or we will withhold essential gas tax revenue that you’re relying on for a number of your infrastructure projects in the city of Toronto.” That was the one threat. The second was the carrot: “We will pay,” Metrolinx said. “We’ll pay the $300 million.”

You can imagine the reaction of the TTC and those members who sit on the TTC and the council in the city of Toronto. This is bizarre. We’re now being forced to take what they consider to be a less-than-adequate product. You’re threatening us—essentially blackmailing us—by saying that, “If you don’t, you don’t get your gas tax revenues for infrastructure,” and you’re willing to bribe us with $300 million.

Speaker, when I first heard about this, I did not believe it. It took a great deal of effort to do the research. It was all confirmed. I had meetings with councillors of the city of Toronto; I had meetings with commissioners of the TTC. All of them confirmed that information.

I took it to the then Minister of Transportation, Mr. Chiarelli. I shared with him my concerns about this. The response that I got was, unfortunately, predictable. I got the typical bureaucratic explanation about why all of this is justified.

In my discussions with the current minister, I said, “My advice to you is, unless you want yet one more scandal brewing in this place, get on top of this.” I shared, I believe, with the minister that there is a very uncomfortable aspect to this story. One of those nuances of this story is the fact that some of the same individuals who were consultants on the eHealth file were also consultants on the Presto file.

I’m not here to indict anyone. I am asking the minister to be very diligent in terms of how he deals with this file. I don’t relish the idea of having yet one more issue in this House where we’re calling into question the competence, the integrity, the thoroughness of any minister of the crown. We’ve had enough of that. So I’m simply appealing to the minister. I’m saying to the minister, “Look at this. You have reason for concern.”

We have reports—not just from the experience of Presto here in the GTA—that it’s not performing. Ottawa is having serious concerns. In fact, Presto has had to make a financial offer to Ottawa because they’ve missed deadlines; they’ve missed delivery dates. They’ve made financial concessions to Ottawa, and they’re still having problems with the technology.

I’m going to wrap my comments up on this aspect of the file, but for the benefit of the minister, I caution him on this. Presto continues to assure the minister that all is well and that they will be able to meet the targets that the TTC has set out in terms of their expectations of a fare card. But, Speaker, they don’t have the technology. The best that they can do is commit to develop it.

I asked the minister to go back and look at the eHealth experience, where eHealth committed month after month after month that they would develop the technology that the government is asking for. Millions and millions of development dollars were poured into that black hole. Today, we still don’t have it. Yet we have a provider of an electronic transit fare card that is ready to implement that technology. We don’t need further development dollars.

I ask a simple question of the minister: Why? Why are we trying to thread this needle? I would say—in fact, I’ve said it—if we had an election tomorrow, and if in the wisdom of the electorate we formed a majority government, the first thing I would recommend that we do, to whoever the Minister of Transportation is, is to put an end to this. Pause it. Call for a public proposal process. Let’s allow Presto to be part of that submission. Let them make their proposal. Open it up to the market.

It doesn’t have to take a long time. I’ve heard the response of Presto and Metrolinx, saying this would delay implementation of a card. It would not. Let’s take 90 days and get it right. Within 90 days, we would know whether or not there is a company that can deliver a technology that is leading-edge, that can do the job for the greater Toronto area and other parts of the province.

What is the risk of that? Why don’t we do that and clear the air? There are so many unanswered questions about how this file is being handled, let alone the fact that Metrolinx is now building an entire bureaucracy to house the Presto facilities, I’m told; I’ll ask the minister to look into this. What is the increase in the number of employees at Metrolinx related strictly to the Presto card, at a time when the minister is looking for ways to cut down the size of government?

The minister referred in his comments when he opened debate on the bill before us that this was part of the Drummond report. I commend the minister for taking up that aspect of the Drummond report, all in the interests of reducing the size of government, making government more efficient. Speaker, I ask you: What is efficient about creating a new bureaucracy within Metrolinx that doesn’t need to be created?

I’m also going to ask the minister to look into this: In addition to the number of people who are actually on the payroll at Metrolinx related to Presto, how many consultants, who don’t show up within the Metrolinx home, are being paid to provide development advice to the Presto file? I think the minister will agree with us that there’s something very wrong there.

I’m going to make one other request of the minister, before I close off my remarks here, and that is to look into one other matter. The minister referred—again, I refer to his very eloquent speech when he opened debate on this bill, and he spoke about the reputation that Ontario has of having the safest roads in North America.

I think all parties, all governments over the last number of years, take credit for that, because successively, whether it was the drinking and driving legislation, where we have some of the toughest in North America, or whether it’s with regard to the graduated driving licensing system, which is, I think, one of the smartest moves that any government could ever have made—I credit the NDP, when they were the government, with bringing that and initiating that particular policy.

So we celebrate the fact and we take a great deal of comfort in the fact that we can point to our roads as being some of the safest in North America.

With that as a concern, I’m going to ask the minister to look into this: Not too long ago, GO Transit took delivery of a number of new buses. These are not intra-city buses; these are buses that take the 400 series of highways, okay? Now, we know that in any other bus transportation company uses the 400 series—that is, a highway transport system—those buses are required to have safety belts.

Hon. Glen R. Murray: Safety belts.

Mr. Frank Klees: Yes, safety belts.

I would have thought that a bus order that GO Transit would put in for buses that travel our 400-series highways would at least have the same level of safety precautions as Greyhound or any other carrier is required to have. Guess what, Speaker? Those brand new buses don’t have seat belts. I can’t fathom why. Surely that’s not an area that the minister would say, “We have to save some money here.” I’m told that manufacturers of buses like that automatically would put seat belts into those vehicles. So what it comes down to is, there would probably have had to be a special direction to the manufacturer not to install the seat belts.

The minister is looking perplexed. I’m glad that he’s looking perplexed, because if he wasn’t, then I could only conclude that he would have been complicit with this. I now conclude he didn’t know about it. I’m not sure which one is worse, but I am going to ask the minister to look into that. I really think that any passenger that gets onto a GO bus that travels our 400-series highways at 100, 110—and, Minister, I’ve been behind them when they’re travelling 120. Not to have the precaution of seat belts in those buses, I think, is a lapse in judgment.

I know that my colleagues—those who were not listening to me earlier actually left the chamber, and I don’t blame them, but they can get this on Hansard, and I can send them a video if they want the special effects.

Finally, I simply would say this to the minister: We will support this legislation, but we look forward to committee, where we will reassert our concerns with many of the administrative shortfalls in the Ministry of Transportation.

Here’s a recommendation I would make to him: Before the minister agrees to implement this bill, that he take the steps to review those areas that I brought to his attention to ensure that they’re fixed so that we don’t have an unintended consequence of this bill that can cause considerable hardship to the people in this province.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Questions and comments?

Ms. Cindy Forster: I want to thank the member from Newmarket–Aurora for his lengthy but interesting speech on the G34 highway traffic law. Many of us in our constituency offices heard similar examples and stories every day from people in our community. Particularly the ones that I’ve heard about that have impact are around people losing their licences for suspensions for health issues, and the length of time that it actually takes to get their licence back.

Although this amendment will assist municipalities and it has the support of AMO and the police service boards, I, too, look forward to getting it into committee to hopefully address the many other issues that I hear about each and every day in my community.

I think that the amendment needs to address some other ways for people to pay fines, because not everyone can perhaps come up with a $1,000 fine or a $500 fine at once. I know that there has been a discussion paper which suggested some recommendations for some different ways that people can pay fines. Perhaps you could have a discount if you paid your fine in a timely way, like they do with parking tickets in some communities. If you pay your fine within 10 days, you get 20% off the fine price.

So, although the bill is here before us, I think that there will be much more debate on the issue over the next couple of weeks, and we look forward to getting it to committee. It certainly is a supportable bill.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Further debate?

Hon. Glen R. Murray: I want to thank my colleague from Newmarket–Aurora for what I thought was a very solid and very constructive speech. I found it a little more engaging than some of his colleagues did, but we have a finer appreciation, you and I, maybe for this matter. I also want to acknowledge his significant contribution to Ontario having the safest roads in North America. When he was transportation minister, he was a very fine minister and left behind a very fine legacy. He has become a friend and provides me with great advice.

I just want to get through as much as I can in a minute and a half, Madam Speaker.

I am quite happy to undertake that kind of review and would be quite happy to work openly with you on it. I will pass on to Ms. Elena Tersigni the compliments of the opposition on her work. I think we appreciate the significant challenge and the need for accuracy.

The suggestion to use registered mail seems to me to be a very constructive one. I will look into the implications of that and will also get back to the member on what advice there is for the ministry to ensure that he is part of that conversation.

There are some very good ideas that the member put forward that I want to commend him on. Checking into keying in phone calls as Air Canada does, so you don’t have to wait in line, seems to me to be a very constructive and very useful contribution to this discussion. The idea of warnings, giving people a chance to come into compliance rather than doing a suspension, also seems to me to be a very constructive suggestion that’s worthy of work.

Some of these things are governance issues and policy review, and I’ll look at that. I’ll also sit down with Deputy Layton and review this with her. I know, as many people who have ever worked with her know, what a remarkably dedicated public servant she is. I’m sure she’s listening to us right now.

Physician reports and the review of medical records and a performance standard for turnaround times seems to me to be also a very useful review, and I’m quite happy to do that.

The matters of Presto and those things, I don’t have time for, but we can continue that conversation at another time.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Further comments?

Mr. Steve Clark: It’s a pleasure to join in the debate. I just have to speak to the member from Newmarket–Aurora on behalf of his colleagues in the Ontario Progressive Conservative caucus who are here today. Although at some points we perhaps—and I know he’s a Leaf fan and he and the member for Nepean–Carleton get into a bit of debate about the Leafs and the Senators. I’m certainly a Senators fan because of my close proximity to the city of Ottawa, but I think there were some members who were excited about the Leafs’ win last night, and I’m sure you can appreciate that. So there were a couple of side conversations.

I do want to commend the member for—and I want to use the words that the minister said—his “solid and constructive” debate on Bill 34 this morning. I’m also very pleased that he mentioned Elena Tersigni from the ministry. She’s someone I have worked with when I was a political staffer with my predecessor, now Senator Runciman—and also my constituency staff; I know we appreciate her efforts in dealing with our constituency issues. I’m very pleased that the member for Newmarket–Aurora mentioned her today.

I’d also like to speak as municipal affairs and housing critic for our party. Certainly most members are aware that municipalities have been looking for a way to deal with POA fines for a number of years. I know that members of the Association of Municipalities of Ontario are very pleased that the bill was tabled. I know I’ve had a number of my local councils express interest in the bill and wonder how it’s going to be dealt with at committee.

I look forward to, at some future point, speaking on the bill myself and providing some other details of constituency issues that I think the minister needs to hear. Thank you for giving me the opportunity, Speaker.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): Thank you. Further comments?

Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong: I’d like to put in my comments on this bill, G34, the MTO bill for municipal fine collections. On the premise, the bill sounds like it’s a good idea, because municipalities are facing similar challenges as provinces are facing, as well as budget reasons. But I think we have to always remember, when we’re talking about—when times are challenging to find funds, when we implement changes that are going to hold the person in the middle in a situation that could actually cause them more damage because we are trying to get the money from them, that’s where I think we need to take a look. The suggestions that the member from Newmarket–Aurora made were quite good.

In my previous life as an insurance broker, one of the things we had to do was send a registered letter when your insurance was being cancelled, because you have to have insurance. But you also have to have a licence to drive. I never understood why the MTO was allowed not to do their due diligence when someone’s licence was suspended and not properly legally notify them. Because many times there’s that example where someone moves, and they don’t get the information, and they’re driving around very innocently thinking that everything is fine.

They may have had the fine, as the member did, nine and a half years ago. Nine and a half years is a long time to remember if you’ve paid something or not, and oftentimes people have paid a fine and there’s a mix-up. If they’re not notified by a registered letter that their licence has been suspended, it becomes a situation that rolls out of control.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): The member from Newmarket–Aurora has two minutes to respond.

Mr. Frank Klees: I want to thank the member from Welland, the Minister of Transportation and the members from Leeds–Grenville and London–Fanshawe for their comments.

Speaker, in this place, we do our best to pass legislation that will be in the public interest. From time to time, we get parts of it wrong. I think that what, hopefully, we have focused on in this bill is an opportunity to improve this bill when it gets to committee. But sometimes the improvement is not necessarily focused on the bill; it is on the supporting administration and implementation process around the bill, which is why I wanted to take this morning’s opportunity to share some of those concerns with the minister, with a view to ensuring that, in the end, we actually achieve the objective that this bill sets forward.

With that in mind, I want to give a bit of a promo to my private member’s bill, which will be debated on Thursday, entitled “preserving existing communities.” Again, it’s an example where existing legislation has had and continues to have some unintended consequences, namely the Places to Grow Act that calls for intensification of communities. We all support ensuring that we minimize urban sprawl, but what has happened with that bill is that, unfortunately, a lot of existing communities have intensification forced on them that is undermining quality of life and land values.

My private member’s bill will ensure that in municipal decisions relating to that very narrow aspect of intensification of existing communities, the decision of the municipality will be final.

Second reading debate deemed adjourned.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Julia Munro): It being close to 10:15, this House stands recessed until 10:30.

The House recessed from 1009 to 1030.

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

Mr. Michael Harris: I’d like to welcome a good friend of mine, an insurance broker from New Hamburg and Elmira, of course, Mr. Steve Wagler from Josslin Insurance. Welcome to Queen’s Park, and I’m sure we’ll see you later on today.

Mr. Mike Colle: I’d like to welcome the 12,000-strong insurance brokers of Ontario here today for their Queen’s Park awareness day, and also the president of the insurance brokers of Ontario, Debbie Thompson, who happens to be the sister of Steven Blackett, who is the minister of consumer affairs in the wonderful, beautiful country of Barbados. Welcome, Debbie.

Mr. Jim Wilson: I want to give a warm welcome to James Varley, who is here with his grade 10 civics class from Greenwood College School in Toronto. A special thank you to his father, Peter Varley, who works in our leader’s office, for letting us all know.

Ms. Cheri DiNovo: They’re not in the House, but I want to welcome Equal Voice here at Queen’s Park today and invite everyone to attend the reception.

Mrs. Donna H. Cansfield: It is indeed my pleasure to acknowledge the page from Etobicoke Centre, Madeline Smart-Reed. Her mom, Sarah Smart, is here, and her grandmother Mary Smart. They’re both in the Speaker’s gallery.

I also say a very special welcome to Silverthorn Collegiate, who are going to enjoy this morning’s festivities in the House.

Mr. Steve Clark: I’d just like to introduce a local insurance broker from the great riding of Leeds–Grenville. Please join me in welcoming Brian Purcell from James Purcell Insurance Broker in Spencerville.

Hon. Michael Gravelle: I’m looking forward to introducing the heart and soul of my constituency operation in Thunder Bay–Superior North, my executive assistant, Larry Joy. Larry, come on, get up.

Mr. John O’Toole: I’d like to introduce constituent Debbie Thompson, as well as Chelsea Smyth, Philomena Comerford and Arthur Lofsky. Many of us know Arthur.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I am delighted to introduce Chris Streib, a physiotherapist and president of Talbot Trail Physiotherapy in St. Thomas, and his wife, Christine Zacharias. They’re here to see how we do business.

Mr. Kim Craitor: I’m pleased to introduce two special guests from the beautiful town of Niagara-on-the-Lake; they’re with the 1812 bicentennial committee. They are Tony Chisholm and Jim Alexander. I know we’re not allowed to show props in the House—I know that’s a very strict rule—so I will not show this prop, which is the burning of Niagara-on-the-Lake that will take place on December 6—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I’m sure the member from Niagara Falls would not want to have me not do my job by telling him it is a prop, and he will put it down.

With us today in the Speaker’s gallery are the mother and father of page Rosalin Dubois from Brant: Suzanne Dubois and Greg Dubois—and brother Thomas, who says he can do a better job than his sister. Welcome, and we’re glad you’re here with us. I think I’ve initiated a family feud; I’m not sure.

BOSTON TRAGEDY

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The Minister of Labour on a point of order.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: Thank you, Speaker, for acknowledging me. Yesterday we all witnessed a horrific tragedy in Boston at the Boston Marathon, and of course, our sympathies and our condolences go with the families of the victims. I seek, Speaker, unanimous consent from the members to observe a moment of silence for the victims and their families, in light of the tragedy yesterday.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The Minister of Labour has sought unanimous consent to observe a moment of silence for the victims and the families and the first responders of the Boston tragedy.

Is there consent? Agreed? Agreed.

Please stand.

The House observed a moment’s silence.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): On behalf of the Legislature, we offer our condolences, our heartfelt prayers and our love to those victims.

VISITORS

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Point of order for the third party.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: I realize I should have done this earlier, but I missed that Monsieur de Laplante from Timmins is here, along with the insurance brokers from the city of Timmins.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Welcome.

ORAL QUESTIONS

POWER PLANTS

Mr. Victor Fedeli: Speaker, I would also open by commenting on the cowardly acts of terrorism in Boston and that our caucus, as well, offers our heartfelt condolences to the families of those who were sadly affected.

Speaker, my question this morning is for the Premier. The Auditor General told us that the cost of the Mississauga gas plant is not the $190 million that you talked about but, rather, a whopping $275 million.

He also told us of the subtle change in language the Liberals used, from saying the “total cost” to now saying “cost to the taxpayer.” That’s because the OPA was instructed to add $85 million on the hydro bills of ratepayers. There’s the subtle difference.

Premier, you played with words to get around telling us the true cost of cancelling Mississauga. What’s the difference between a taxpayer and a ratepayer, and will you apologize to the people of Ontario for misleading them?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please.

The member will withdraw.

Mr. Victor Fedeli: I withdraw.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: First of all, on behalf of the people of Ontario, I want to send our thoughts and prayers to our friends in Boston, to the families of those killed and injured and to everyone affected by this shocking event.

Races like the Boston Marathon really are a demonstration of human endurance and a sense of community. I want the people of Boston to know that we’re here for them, that we offer them our support in any way that we can.

I want to thank the auditor for his work and accept his findings. The auditor has provided Ontarians with a longer-term assessment than the original assessment by estimating costs and savings over 20 years.

Let’s be clear: We listened to the residents of Oakville and Mississauga, and we relocated the gas plants. Do we agree that the plants shouldn’t have been located there? Yes, we do. Do we agree that the plants should have been relocated sooner? Yes, we do. Do we take responsibility and are we going to move forward, Mr. Speaker? Absolutely—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock for a moment, please.

Like all of us in this place, I am aware of the situation that is happening today with responses, and I’m going to ask you to contain yourself as much as possible, to get to your questions and to the answers. Let’s try to keep it at a level at which we can all hear, and I will immediately be looking to people to quiet them down.

Supplementary?

Mr. Victor Fedeli: Thank you, Speaker. Premier, what was even more revealing from the auditor was the fact that millions of dollars were needed for transmission, gas connection and other costs made necessary by moving to your new location. That’s because, Premier, there’s a right way to move these plants and an expensive way, and we learned from the auditor that you picked the most expensive way possible.

The auditor told us he will be using the same criteria in telling us how much your Oakville cancellation really cost. You’re sticking to $40 million, but the OPA shows that those same extra costs the auditor will look at using will bring this to $991 million.

Just like yesterday, Premier, we’re going to get to the truth. Why don’t you just tell us now the total cost of cancelling Oakville?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I know that the Minister of Energy is going to want to speak to some of the specifics, but I want to be clear—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Premier.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Mr. Speaker, I didn’t think that was such an outrageous comment; I know the Minister of Energy is going to want to speak to the specifics.

I want to talk about my responsibility and our responsibility to move forward on this. It is very clear to me—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Lambton–Kent–Middlesex, come to order.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I listened to what the Auditor General said yesterday. It’s very clear to me that he has made calculations, and I am very glad that he has shed some light on this. That’s exactly why we asked him to look at both of the situations.

It has been my priority to be open and transparent on this issue. I asked for the Auditor General to look at the Oakville situation. We’ve expanded the scope of the committee, and I take responsibility for getting that information out.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Mr. Victor Fedeli: Premier, we learned two things over at the justice committee this morning from the sworn testimony of Shelly Jamieson, former cabinet secretary. First, she swore that cabinet knew of Project Vapour. You and a handful of cabinet ministers stood up and said, “You have all the documents,” when this proves you knew we didn’t. She also swore that cabinet knew of the extra costs for the Oakville cancellation, far above the $40 million you claim. In fact, she called them “buckets of costs.”

Premier, documents prove you were at the cabinet meetings when these extra costs were disclosed. Will you stand up now, put an end to this charade and tell all Ontarians how much Oakville cost?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Be seated.

Premier.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Energy.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: Mr. Speaker, when the Auditor General was given the responsibility to look into the Mississauga issue, he worked on that file for over half a year. He worked co-operatively with the Ontario Power Authority and officials from his office. He stated—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Leeds–Grenville, come to order—and Prince Edward–Hastings.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: He stated very clearly yesterday that he had access to all documents. It was not a problem for him to gather the information.

The auditor’s office is, again, looking into the Oakville situation. They have been doing that for some time; they’re going to be doing it over another period of months. There are difficult calculations; they’re complex files. As in the case of Mississauga, we were not getting interim reports on what the auditor was finding, and in the case of Oakville, we’re not going to be getting interim reports. So the speculation on the part of the critic is totally vacuous.

POWER PLANTS

Mr. John Yakabuski: My question is to the Premier.

The transition from McGuinty to Wynne has been seamless and is now complete. Premier, you’ve picked up exactly where your predecessor left off. You have made empty statements about being transparent and releasing all of the information with respect to the gas plant cancellations and relocations. These claims are nothing but attempts to distract from the fact that you only give the answers when you are legally compelled to do so.

The auditor stated clearly that you were aware for months that the cost to cancel the Mississauga gas plant was substantially higher than $190 million. Why didn’t you order your Minister of Energy to disclose that fact instead of continuing to insist that your false numbers were correct?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Since I came into this office, I have done everything in my power to make sure that the information that people were asking for was available. I asked the Auditor General to look at the Oakville plant. I asked that we expand the justice committee’s mandate so that it could ask a much broader range of questions. I have said I will appear before the committee. We are making sure that the questions that need to be answered are answered. The reality is, every member in this House—all parties—agreed that these gas plants should be relocated, and there was a cost associated with those relocations. That is unfortunate, but that is the reality, Mr. Speaker.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. Be seated, please. Be seated, please.

Start the clock. Oh, that got quiet.

Supplementary?

Mr. John Yakabuski: To the Premier, as well: Premier, your answers completely betray what we already know: that you have no intention of being straight with this Legislature or the people of Ontario. For months, you’ve been asked on a daily basis for the total cost of your politically motivated decision to cancel the Mississauga gas plant. You told the public that the cost was one amount when you knew it to be higher. They have a right to know how much of their money you’re going to waste. In spite of the guarantees of your so-called new government, you chose not to disclose that figure.

You’ve done everything you can to avoid being transparent. Taxpayer or ratepayer are one and the same, and they are entitled to the truth.

End this now. Release all of the costs related to the Oakville power plant cancellation and relocation. Do it now, Premier. The people of Ontario deserve nothing less.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please.

Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: It is simply not true that I have avoided, or that our government has avoided, getting the information out. It’s just not true, Mr. Speaker. I have done everything I can to get the experts who understand what the costs are.

As the Minister of Energy said, it has been a complex process. It has been a six-month process for the Auditor General to come up with the cost. I am neither an accountant nor an engineer. I am not an expert in these areas. I think what we need is the information that is developed by, that is compiled by, the experts, which is why I asked the Auditor General to look at the Oakville plant. I want the information to be available.

The members opposite can rail as much as they want. The reality is, everyone in this Legislature believed that those gas plants should be relocated. We acted on that, and there was a cost associated with that.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Premier, the people are the final arbiter. The auditor’s report has shone a light on all of the holes in your story. Why are you here, Premier—to set an example, or to play politics and protect the interests of the Liberal Party?

We have 600,000 people out of work in this province, and you’re wasting the time of this Legislature by refusing to come clean and disclose the information. Compliance with orders is not transparency and full disclosure; that’s only doing what you are compelled to do.

Today, Premier, I ask you to do the right thing. Will you release the total cost of the cancellation of the Oakville power plant, or do we have to wait for another auditor’s report confirming what he did on Mississauga yesterday? Will he have to confirm on Oakville at a later date that you have lied to the people of Ontario?

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member will withdraw.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Withdraw.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I’m going to take this further. I said this yesterday, and I’m going to say it today to reinforce it: If there is an effort to use unparliamentary language, I am going to skip questions—and I mean “skip questions.” So the rotation is there, the answer is there, but if it continues, using unparliamentary language that you know is not allowed, I will skip.

Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: The Minister of Energy.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: Mr. Speaker, I’m pleased to address the issue of Oakville. On September 24, 2012, the Ontario Power Authority put the actual memorandum of understanding, the terms of the agreement, on their website. It indicated quite clearly in that document—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Lambton–Kent, come to order.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: It indicated quite clearly that the sunk costs were $40 million. It also indicated that there were a number of other matters that had to be addressed, including the issue of the lower power price and the impact that would have, and the cost of some of the equipment that was provided.

Mr. Speaker, there is an issue of accountability here. The issue of accountability is where we site our energy infrastructure. It is not appropriate. The Premier has indicated it could be much better. She expanded the terms of the committee to find ways and means to have a better way of siting the project.

POWER PLANTS

Ms. Andrea Horwath: I want to begin by joining with the Premier and the opposition—for New Democrats—in our condolences to the people of Boston as well as the people from around the world who were participating in the Boston Marathon, and their families and supporters. I think we were all shocked by the incidents yesterday, and we certainly do want to say that our thoughts and our prayers are with all of those folks as they struggle through what happened and the aftermath.

Speaker, my question is to the Premier. On September 25, 2012, the now Premier was pretty decisive about the cost of the Mississauga gas plant. She said, “The cost of that relocation was $190 million.” The auditor put forward a different, higher, figure yesterday.

Does the Premier stand by her claim?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I’ve been very clear. I’m appreciative of the auditor for his work. He’s looked at a longer-term assessment of the cost. He’s estimated the cost and the savings over 20 years, and so the number is a different number. The whole purpose of the Auditor General looking at these costs was to make sure that it was understood exactly what the costs were. So I appreciate that he has done that work. I appreciate that he’s doing the work on the Oakville gas plant as I asked him to do.

But Mr. Speaker, the reality is that we all agree that the gas plants shouldn’t have been located where they were. We agree on that. We agree that the information should have been clear. I absolutely acknowledge that. I take responsibility for getting the information out and for fixing the process going forward.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: The Premier and this government have made a series of claims. They insisted that the cost of cancelling the private power deal in Mississauga was $180 million. Then, they insisted it was $190 million. Now, they insist that the cost of the private power deal in Oakville was $40 million. And they insist that consumers will be protected.

Does the Premier back any of these claims?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: As the leader of the third party knows, on February 7 I wrote to the Auditor General requesting that he examine the cost of the Oakville relocation. He agreed. He’s working with the OPA, and we look forward to his report.

But again, we listened to the people of Oakville. I wish that the community engagement, the process, had been better up front. I wish that the information had been more clearly released earlier. But the reality is that we all agreed that that gas plant should be relocated. We acted on that, and we know that there is a cost associated with that decision.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: This is about the sort of government that the Premier is running. This government signed private power deals. They defended those deals and insisted that they were absolutely necessary. Then when it looked like it would cost them political power, they cancelled the deals, and not only did they stick the public with the bills, they’ve gone out of their way to hide the details and the real costs.

How can the Premier stand in this House and act as if this is acceptable?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I really need to take issue with the notion that we are not trying to be transparent on this. From day one when I came into this job, and through the leadership race, I was very clear that the information that was being asked for needed to be available. That’s why I took the actions that I did as soon as I was in this office. That’s why I said, “Let’s make sure there’s a committee in place that has the broadest mandate possible to ask the questions that need to be asked.” That’s why I asked the Auditor General to look at the Oakville situation.

That’s why I said I would appear before committee. We have attempted at every turn to provide the information that was being asked for.

The Auditor General is doing his work. I appreciate the work he did on the Mississauga plant. I look forward to the report. Do we want it to be different next time? Do we want the process to be better and the community engagement to be better? Absolutely we do, Mr. Speaker.

POWER PLANTS

Ms. Andrea Horwath: I guess day one is all a matter of perspective, Speaker. From day one, New Democrats were FOIing those private power contracts, and we couldn’t get the information from this government years ago.

My next question is for the Premier. What’s really shocking for people is, the Premier doesn’t seem to be showing any remorse or regret. Instead, it’s just full steam ahead with politics as usual. Yesterday, Ontarians learned that the people of this province are going to be paying $275 million to cancel that Mississauga plant. That money could have been used to wipe out home care waiting lists or to put 25,000 young people to work.

Why can’t the Premier admit that this was cynical politics at its worst and actually show some remorse for this waste of public money?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I think I’ve said very clearly that I think the process should have been different. If the process had been different, then we wouldn’t be in this situation where we’re having to pay these costs.

The reality is that there were costs that were associated with making this decision. I said weeks ago—months ago, now—that this was a political decision, Mr. Speaker. It was a political decision that every party agreed with. Whoever formed government, whoever was in this role, if they were going to follow through on that commitment to cancel these plants, there was going to be a cost associated with that. What we don’t know is what the parties opposite thought those costs were going to be.

We have taken action. We have made those relocations. There are costs associated with them, and I’ve been clear that we need every piece of information open and available to the people who are asking the questions, because that is the right thing to do.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: I guess I was right, Speaker: politics as usual, personified in the response there. People in Ontario are hoping for a little more from their government than the same old evasions and the same old excuses. Yesterday they learned that they’re going to be paying $275 million to cancel that Mississauga plant. That’s $85 million more than the already astronomical $190 million that the Premier insisted was the tally in this very House back in September 2012.

People are tired of being zapped by the Liberals in this province. Why can’t the Premier simply say that this was the wrong thing to do and apologize on behalf of the Liberal Party and her government for this cynical waste of public money?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I want the people of Ontario to know that I believe that the process should have been different. It should have been different, Mr. Speaker. We should have had a different process to locate the plants and we should have had more community engagement. There should have been a different process up front. I don’t know how much clearer I can be on that, Mr. Speaker—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Okay.

Premier.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I don’t know how I can say that more clearly: that I believe the process should have been different. The reality is that all parties agreed that they’re—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I’m sorry. I’m going to mention the member again, and the minister responsible for seniors will join him.

Premier.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I’ve lost my thread. How could that happen?

The reality is, we have been clear that the process should have been different. We need to have a different process going forward. The Auditor General has provided us with information that is very necessary. The committee will continue to do its work, and we look forward to its report on Oakville.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: The Premier lost her thread because she’s weaving a tale; that’s the problem.

This should be a pretty simple issue, Speaker. The money spent scrapping this power plant could have hired 4,700 nurses in this province. It could have eliminated the wait-list for home care over and over again. It could have provided some relief for households that are paying the highest electricity rates in the entire country. Instead, it was handed to US hedge funds and to private power companies. Instead of coming clean about this, the government spent a year scrambling to hide the facts from the people they stuck with the bill. When will the Premier give the people some indication that she actually knows that this was wrong?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Energy.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: Mr. Speaker, the government listened to the residents of Mississauga by relocating the facility. The NDP and the Conservatives made the same election promise. When the three parties made this commitment in November 2011, none of the parties knew what the costs of relocation would be.

The Auditor General’s report demonstrated how complex and difficult the negotiations and the calculations were. It took the auditor’s office over half a year to do the report, which we received last week.

The issue really is, how do we locate, how do we site our energy infrastructure? As the Premier said, we have to do better. The committee has the mandate to do that. Why don’t we work together to get better rules for siting our—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. New question.

POWER PLANTS

Mr. Frank Klees: My question is to the Premier.

Speaker, on September 24, 2011, according to the auditor, an Ontario Liberal Party news release announced, as an election campaign promise, that the Greenfield plant in Mississauga would not go forward. “The Liberal Party won the election on October 6, 2011.” There’s a reason that the Auditor General makes that point in his report—that it was the Ontario Liberal Party. The co-chair of the Ontario Liberal Party at the time was none other than Kathleen Wynne, the Premier.

The Premier may not be, as she indicated, an accountant, and she may not be an engineer, but she is the Premier. As the Premier, I would ask her this question: Why can the Premier not stand in her place and say to the people of Ontario, “We made a mistake”?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Be seated, please. Be seated, please.

Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I have said that we take responsibility for making sure that all of the information that is being asked for is provided. I take full responsibility for that, Mr. Speaker.

I have also said that the process should have been different. I’ve been clear about that. It should have been different, and we need a different process going forward.

I have also said that this was a political decision. It was a political decision that would have been taken, ostensibly—by all accounts from the other parties—by the other parties had they been in government. It was a political decision that, in the implementation, had business costs associated with it.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary.

Mr. Frank Klees: Speaker, there’s an important thread missing in the Premier’s comments, and that is that it was the government of the day that decided to put the plant there in the first place. That was not a decision of the opposition. It was not a decision of the third party. That government made the mistake of putting it there to begin with. Therefore, they share all of the responsibility for the costs.

My question is this: Given that it was a Liberal Party decision to incur $275 million of costs, will the Premier agree that it’s the Liberal Party of Ontario that should pay that money?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Be seated, please. Thank you.

Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Government House leader.

Hon. John Milloy: Mr. Speaker, let me remind—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): If I have to wade through this and individually mention somebody—I want to give everybody an understanding: When I give you a warning, that’s the last time I will speak to you, other than to name you.

Government House leader.

Hon. John Milloy: Mr. Speaker, let me remind the honourable member about the Mississauga South PC candidate robocall: “Hi there. This is Geoff Janoscik, your Mississauga South Ontario PC candidate. I’m calling about the McGuinty-Sousa power plant that the Liberal government decided to build in your backyard. I’m against this power plant, and as your MPP, I will fight to stop the power plant from being built.... Our team has been out knocking on doors every single evening for several months, talking about the power plant and making sure that we defeat the Liberals in this riding and put an end to their bad decisions”—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. The member from Leeds–Grenville: If it was a test, you won. You’re warned.

Answer?

Hon. John Milloy: What’s interesting is, today in front of the committee, the Liberal members called on all four of the candidates for both parties in this riding to come forward, and they couldn’t make it. I’m very anxious to have them come forward—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. New question.

POWER PLANTS

Mr. Peter Tabuns: My question to the Premier: For nearly a year, the Liberal government claimed that the Mississauga gas plant cancellation cost about $190 million. Yesterday, the Auditor General told us that it was $275 million, a full $85 million more than your government has been willing to admit. Today, Shelly Jamieson, former secretary of cabinet, told Ontarians that she knew there would be more than the sunk costs and that the Premier and ministers would know that.

Premier, why did the Liberal government say the cost was one thing when everyone knew it was far higher?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Government House leader.

Hon. John Milloy: The Auditor General has come forward with a report, and the Auditor General is coming forward with a report on the Oakville situation. But I think what’s interesting about Shelly Jamieson’s testimony this morning is that she confirmed that last week, when the opposition stood up with a document related to the negotiations going on and claimed that it had somehow been withheld by the government, that document was in fact outside the scope of any of the requests that were made by the committee.

We have been prepared for a long time to furnish all the documents to the committee, but that honourable member and other members of the opposition sat in their place and voted against it. I think it’s time that we allow the committee to undertake its work, we allow the Auditor General to finish his work, and the committee to come forward with some profitable advice—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Supplementary.

Mr. Peter Tabuns: It’s very clear the government doesn’t want to tell the truth on this issue—does not want to answer questions—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): There was so much noise that I didn’t hear, but there seemed to have been a concern about what was said, and if you did, I would expect—but I will let it go. Please ask your question.

Mr. Peter Tabuns: Thank you. Shelly Jamieson told the committee that the government was looking at options for cancelling the Mississauga plant before they’d begun—not destruction, construction; destruction came later—before they received the 14% financing that Ontarians are now paying for.

Premier, the Liberal government planned the Mississauga gas plant. The Liberal government wanted to cancel it so it could save seats in an election. For nearly a year, the Liberal government hid the costs. Does the Premier think this is a good way to do business?

Hon. John Milloy: Here is what the NDP member for Mississauga had to say about the Mississauga plant—and I quote from InsideToronto.com, September 26: “We wouldn’t build it.”

Here’s what Torstar News Service had to say, September 16, 2011: “Etobicoke–Lakeshore NDP candidate Dionne Coley also pledged to fight the plant.”

The National Post, September 29, 2011: “[L]ocal NDP candidate Anju Sikka soon issued statements concurring with the new Liberal cancellation.”

The Liberal members of the committee invited both the Progressive Conservative and the New Democratic candidates for those ridings to come forward to the committee and talk about their calculations and the work they did when they promised that in the last election. None of them were available today, and I hope that that member will persuade his colleagues to come before the committee.

GO TRANSIT

Ms. Helena Jaczek: My question is for the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation. My constituents in Oak Ridges–Markham rely on public transit to get to work and school, to reduce congestion on the roads and keep our air clean. In particular, GO trains are very important and popular for us in Oak Ridges–Markham, as there are five GO train stations in my riding, and we are served by three different lines. Last year, additional GO train service on weekends and holidays helped my constituents move along the Barrie line with more convenience and flexibility.

I heard from many residents of King City and northern Richmond Hill that they really appreciated the implementation of additional GO services.

Minister, could you please update the House on what the plan is this year for GO Transit on the Barrie line?

Hon. Glen R. Murray: As you know, our Premier has made transit and transportation, and taking on congestion issues and the infrastructure deficit in this province, a priority of this government, and I’m very proud to have the honour of being part of the team that’s delivering it.

This summer we are adding, to that end, four southbound and four northbound train trips on the Barrie GO line as well as increased GO bus service on weekends and holidays. This will begin on June 29 and will be running through to September 2.

I also want to acknowledge my friend from Oak Ridges–Markham for her incredible advocacy on this. And to Mayor Lehman in Barrie—Barrie is responding in the community by increasing their bus fleet and their transit services by an amazing 30%, to match up with our GO service.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Helena Jaczek: Thank you to the minister for that update. I am glad to see that our government is making summer travel even more convenient.

GO Transit’s seasonal weekend schedules sound much improved. I know that people in my riding of Oak Ridges–Markham will welcome transit investments on weekends that make public transit a better choice for many of them, reducing congestion on our roads and contributing to a better quality of life for Ontario families.

There is also a great deal of interest in introducing two-way, all-day service on all GO rail corridors for commuters in York region. I know it will require significant expansion of the supporting railway infrastructure. However, it is sorely needed.

Mr. Speaker, can the minister please provide an update on the progress we’ve made in creating a more convenient and efficient public transit system in the GTHA?

Hon. Glen R. Murray: I want to thank the member, and I will give some more details. I also just want to thank the member from York–Simcoe and the member from Barrie for joining me for the announcements on the Highway 400 and the GO service.

One of the good reasons we have GO service improvements to Barrie—and for all of our constituents—is because we are going to be putting, with the federal government and municipalities, $109 million in repairs on Highway 400 and the interchanges, so to avoid the congestion, people will be able to use the GO service.

But we’re also doing things such as moving to complete two-way, all-day GO service on every line. That’s part of our strategy with the Big Move.

As many people drive to this, we’re adding 3,500 parking spaces right now to our parking spaces in those areas, in those communities, where automobiles are the choice of residents to get around.

We have integrated all 11 transit authorities right now under the Presto card, so you don’t have to fuss with multiple passes. This is an amazing investment in transit across the greater Golden Horseshoe, and we’re very proud to be moving forward.

I thank the member for her question.

POWER PLANTS

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: My question also is to the Premier. The auditor was quite clear yesterday that the real cost of the cancellation of the power plant was $275 million, not the $190 million you and your cabinet had continually suggested. The auditor only reduced that number because we don’t have to pay for the power from that cancelled plant now. Your government even paid the company of the power plant for the cost of its land and then you let them keep it.

You were briefed, as was cabinet, and I quote from Shelly Jamieson, who said there were known “buckets of costs” that exceeded $190 million. Premier, given you were briefed on these “buckets of costs” exceeding $190 million, why did you tell this House on September 25 and every day thereafter the wrong number?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Energy.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: The Auditor General performed his work for a period of over half a year. When you read the report of the Auditor General, there are over 21 items that either had reductions or increases in costs. They were very technical in nature, and it took him that long period of time to review it.

We have said quite clearly that we accept the auditor’s report. We’ve also said in this House, and the Premier has said, that the root cause is that we need to do better in siting our energy facilities. That’s the core root accountability issue here.

We’ve put before the committee the responsibility to try to find better ways to site our energy infrastructure. I think we should have some common purpose in that committee to try to determine better ways to site our energy infrastructure.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: I’m going to go back to the Premier because she has some serious answers to give this assembly.

Shelly Jamieson’s testimony was damning. The auditor’s report was appalling. The only thing that has become very clear has been this: This government is rotten to the core, and it’s time for them to leave.

The Ontario PC caucus has said for quite some time that they should never have built that power plant in the first place. It has now cost taxpayers in this province $275 million.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Order.

Please finish.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: They’re forcing taxpayers to pay $275 million so Charles Sousa could keep his seat.

Speaker, I have a question for the Premier: How can you put forward a credible budget in this assembly when the biggest beneficiary of that power plant will be the person collecting that $275 million from the taxpayers in this province? You can’t do it. Step aside.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please.

Minister of Energy.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: To the opposition: The Mississauga and Oakville energy facilities were seat-gainer programs, because they promised quite clearly that they were going to relocate the sites. They did that because they hoped to win those seats. So it was a seat-gainer program for them. None of the parties who promised in November 2011 to relocate those facilities knew what the costs were going to be when those commitments were made. They were election commitments made by all parties; nobody had the cost at that time. The auditor’s report showed quite clearly that it was complex, detailed and technical.

It took the auditor over half a year to calculate the costs. They should be the last ones to complain about the calculation of the cost. They had no idea what it was going to cost.

HEALTH CARE FUNDING

Mr. Taras Natyshak: My question is to the Premier. In the last few months, Windsor and Essex county residents have lost dozens of hospital beds, nurses and front-line care workers. They’ve seen long-promised new beds evaporate. Budget cuts are threatening the services available to infants at the NICU, and Windsor CCAC is facing significant cuts to address funding shortfalls. Yet as we found out yesterday, this government was happy to spend $275 million securing threatened seats for their MPPs.

What does the Premier have to say to the people of Windsor and Essex county who have watched their health care be whittled to the bone while the Liberal government spends millions of dollars to save seats in an election?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I know the Minister of Health is going to want to speak to the specific system issue, but I just want to be clear once again, because I think in this context it’s important to say once again that I wish, I believe, I would have desired that the process had been different. I wish that we had been able to have a better process up front so that a different decision could have been made so we wouldn’t have been at this place. But the reality is that we listened to the communities both in Oakville and in Mississauga.

We made a decision which is a decision that all of the parties would have made. It was a political decision, as everyone in this House agreed. We made the decision, we moved forward, and there were costs associated with the relocation of the plants.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Taras Natyshak: Better process comes with better governance.

In recent times, the Windsor and Essex county region has struggled with a 9% unemployment rate, cuts to health care, cuts to seniors’ care and broken promises about the Grace hospital site—and a government willing to throw away the region’s gaming industry to benefit private casino operators from down south. Now we find out that Ontarians are on the hook for massive penalties being paid to American hedge funds for contracts signed by and cancelled by the Liberal government.

The hard times and job losses facing Windsor are no secret and they are no myth. When will this government stop throwing taxpayer dollars at American corporations and start protecting the services that we need most?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Health and Long-Term Care.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: The member opposite is making allegations that simply are not true about our health care system in Windsor. Indeed, the facts speak for themselves. Since 2003, the budget of Windsor Regional Hospital has grown by $100 million. That’s an 83% increase in funding to that hospital. We’ve seen results from that. What we’re seeing is lower wait times. We’ve seen a reduction of 86 days for hip replacement, 46 days for outpatient CT scans, 56 days’ less waiting for people needing cancer surgery.

At the same time, Speaker, we are enhancing home care supports because that is fundamental to the transformation in our health care system. We’re seeing more people getting care from family health teams, and 320 new long-term-care beds are being built.

IMMIGRANT SERVICES /

SERVICES AUX IMMIGRANTS

Mr. Shafiq Qaadri: Ma question est pour le ministre de la citoyenneté et de l’Immigration, l’honorable Michael Coteau.

My riding of Etobicoke North, Speaker, as you’ll appreciate, is home to many newcomers who come from all over the world. Of course, when they come to ridings like Etobicoke North and across the GTA and beyond, integrating successfully into our communities benefits everyone.

In Ontario, of course, we have long valued diversity and its economic contributions. Our diverse population is a tremendous asset.

Now, Speaker, as you’ll appreciate, with the economic times being hard, more than ever, newcomers are critical to our economic development and meeting our future labour market needs. Putting their skills to work will be key to our economic growth.

I ask the minister: What is our government doing to help newcomers settle in Ontario, and what are some of the ideas, instruments and investments that we are making in this domain?

Hon. Michael Coteau: I’d like to thank the member for Etobicoke North for the question. I know he’s a great champion for his community.

Our government is committed to supporting community agencies that provide valuable settlement services to newcomers. Across the province, we’ve expanded our support for newcomer settlement services. In total, Mr. Speaker, 98 community organizations across this province, including the north and rural communities, will receive funding for important language and job training, programs and community services.

Enhancing community settlement services is part of the province’s immigration strategy and supports the Ontario government’s efforts to build a strong economy and a fair society. Settlement agencies in Ontario help more than 80,000 newcomers each year.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary.

Mr. Shafiq Qaadri: Thank you, Speaker, and through you to the minister: I’d also like to recognize the fact that he visited my riding, Etobicoke North, last week to announce $14.9 million in funding in this whole particular area.

I think that people, especially in Etobicoke North, sense on the ground that our initiatives, directives and programs are enhancing lives. As we heard from a newcomer during the announcement—my constituents tell me that the settlement services are making a difference. These services are helping newcomers contribute to their communities, go to school, develop new and marketable skill sets, and strengthen our workforce, which of course leads to more prosperous, successful and integrated lives.

Monsieur le Ministre, pouvez-vous donner à mes électeurs en savoir plus sur le travail du gouvernement pour les nouveaux arrivants dans ma communauté?

Hon. Michael Coteau: One of the main goals of our immigration strategy is to help newcomers and their families settle and achieve success. More newcomers come to Ontario than any other province in this country. That’s why we’ve increased our efforts to support newcomers across this province. Since 2003, our government has increased settlement services funding by over 80%. The funding is needed now more than ever because of the federal cuts equalling $85 million that have happened in settlement services over the last three years.

Our new government has made investments to support newcomers in ridings like Etobicoke North. These investments will support the great work of organizations like the Rexdale Women’s Centre, the Dejinta Beesha, and the Community MicroSkills Development Centre. These organizations help more than 4,000 people each year.

I’m proud that our new government is supporting newcomers in the beautiful riding of Etobicoke North and across the province. When newcomers succeed, we all succeed.

POWER PLANTS

Mr. Steve Clark: My question is to the Premier.

Premier, you stood in this House and repeatedly told us your version of the truth and the supposed cost of the Mississauga gas plant, saying it was $190 million. Yesterday, the Auditor General, who is far more believable than you are, told us the real truth: that the costs were $275 million, some 50% more.

I’m going to quote you, Premier, from Hansard on September 25, 2012: “‘We are relocating a gas plant from Oakville to eastern Ontario. The total cost of the relocation is $40 million.’”

Premier, given your rather liberal

interpretation of the truth when it came to the Mississauga statement, are you still standing by the $40 million? You know the costs; you need not wait for the Auditor General to expose you once again. Tell the truth. Stand in your place—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: The Minister of Energy.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: On September 24, 2012, the Ontario Power Authority posted on their website the actual memorandum of understanding. It’s the contract between the proponent and the OPA and the provincial government. It states in the contract itself: $40 million are the sunk costs. It states in the contract itself that there are other calculations that are being made. Those calculations relate to reduce power site and to the provision of certain equipment.

Mr. Speaker, that document is the contract—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Order. The member from Pembroke.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Closing in.

Finish, please.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: Mr. Speaker, they’re trying to make a sow’s ear out of a silk purse.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

The member from Lambton–Kent–Middlesex is warned.

Supplementary. The member from Durham.

Mr. John O’Toole: I redirect the question to the Premier. Premier, you have known and actually have the answers—you’re in charge. The buck stops with you, as far as I’m concerned. You know all of the answers. All I’m asking today is a simple question: Is the cost of the Oakville plant still, in your opinion, $40 million?

Stand in your place, Premier. I’d ask you to stand in your place and say what you said on September 25, 2012. Should we believe what you said then or should we believe what you’re saying now?

You knew the real costs. The buck stops with you. I ask you once again, are you going to stick to your figure of the $40 million? Was it true then? Is it still true now, that number?

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The Minister of Energy.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: The relocation costs of Oakville are contained in a contract that has been negotiated. That has been on the public record, on the Ontario Power Authority website, since September 24, 2012.

The people of Ontario want some unity of purpose coming out of this Legislature. The committee has the mandate to create the rules for better siting of our power infrastructure so that these things would not happen in the future. The people of Ontario are looking for this place to provide some leadership collectively in how we relocate or locate our power plants and our energy facilities. We expect the people of Ontario to be respected. We expect this Legislature, through that committee that has the mandate, to create some better rules.

CORRECTIONAL SERVICES

Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong: My question is to the Minister of Community Safety. Minister, the situation at Elgin-Middlesex Detention Centre escalated again last week. An improvised weapon has still not been found and we also saw a lockdown that resulted in a fire and two injuries.

When I asked last September, the minister said that the government had developed a 12-point plan to deal with these exact issues, but reality speaks to worsening conditions.

When will the minister do her duty and develop a real plan to bring Elgin-Middlesex Detention Centre up to standard?

Hon. Madeleine Meilleur: Thank you for this question. As you know, Elgin-Middlesex Detention Centre is on my top priority in the Ministry of Correctional Services. The deputy and the assistant deputy are working very diligently to solve the problem there.

Yes, I have presented a three-point plan to resolve the problem at Elgin-Middlesex. We have done one of them; 24-hour nursing is already in place, and I am very pleased about it.

There was an incident last week, and I can confirm that the search and the lockdown have been ended. I cannot talk about the investigation because there is an investigation going on, but I can say that we’ll take every measure possible to redress the situation.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong: Minister, just last week Elgin-Middlesex Detention Centre was on lockdown after staff issued a refusal to search due to lack of safety equipment. I hope the minister understands that it’s a question of safety for both the guards as well as the inmates. Two people were sent to the hospital because government mismanagement allowed the situation to escalate.

Will the minister act now to guarantee safety at the Elgin-Middlesex facility?

Hon. Madeleine Meilleur: I will differ in opinion with the member from the London area.

I visited the Elgin-Middlesex Detention Centre. We’ve worked very closely with the administration, and my ministry will continue to address the situation. My questions are, why is this happening, why is there stuff that is coming into the detention centre? We have a lot of whys that the investigation will give us answers to.

BEEKEEPING INDUSTRY

Mr. Bill Mauro: My question is for the Premier in her capacity as Minister of Agriculture and Food. There has been recent concern among the Ontario Beekeepers’ Association, including members in my riding of Thunder Bay–Atikokan, that the government is planning to repeal the Bees Act. It is this legislation that guides beekeepers and that gives bee inspectors the authority to inspect Ontario apiaries and enforce the regulations designed to keep our bee population healthy. Concerns have arisen within the beekeeping community that a posting on the regulatory registry may mean that the government is intending to do away with this legislation.

Premier, can you please provide the House with an update on this situation?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Thank you to the member for Thunder Bay–Atikokan for his question. This is a really important issue, and I want to thank the Ontario Beekeepers’ Association for their work in representing their members. I want to clarify the situation and set aside the concerns of the beekeepers. Proposed changes to the Bees Act were posted for comment in January and February. These changes would simply update the list of diseases and pests named in the Bees Act. It’s a direct response to the industry’s concerns, and it supports bee health and swift detection and timely response to emerging issues.

From an economic perspective, the changes will improve access to more markets for Ontario’s beekeepers. This is something that there has been a lot of concern about. I heard about it early on. That’s the situation.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Bill Mauro: Issues related to a healthy bee population not only in Ontario but nationally and internationally have gained prominence in recent years. I’ve met with a number of individuals and groups in my riding concerned with this issue. It’s also an issue of concern—of grave concern, I would say—to the agriculture community. I’m pleased by the response from the Premier. This legislation is important to beekeepers, especially during this period of uncertainty for the sector.

As I’m sure the Premier is aware, there have been reports of high mortality rates of bees across the globe, and many beekeepers in Ontario attribute the deaths to the planting of treated corn seed. Can the Premier please inform the House what is being done to help beekeepers who are losing their hives?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I’m very aware of the high number of bee deaths in Ontario and, along with beekeepers, I’m really concerned about what this means for the agriculture sector as a whole, not to mention the ecosystem. The Pest Management Regulatory Agency, alongside with the Ministry of the Environment, is investigating the bee kills. The Pest Management Regulatory Agency has released a best-practices document developed in consultation with the industry, and it demonstrates ways of reducing potential risk to bees.

Ministry staff will continue to work with the industry, with colleagues at the Ministry of the Environment and with the Pest Management Regulatory Agency this spring to monitor Ontario hive health.

The Ontario government recognizes the vitally important role that pollinators and beekeepers play in maintaining a healthy and productive agri-food sector. I know that the members opposite are equally concerned about this issue.

POWER PLANTS

Ms. Lisa M. Thompson: My question today is for the Premier. Premier, the former Minister of Finance reported on July 16, 2012, that the true cost to cancel the Mississauga gas plant would come in at $190 million. Well, we had to wait for the Auditor General to tell us the actual true cost, which is actually $275 million—unacceptable. Since your math seems to be off these days, I’m going to break that down for you. What we are talking about is seat-savers, and it’s $69 million per Liberal member whose seat was saved by the Mississauga gas plant cancellation, all on the backs of taxpayers.

Minister, now that we know the true cost of the four Liberal seats in Mississauga, why don’t you just reveal the true cost of the Oakville cancellation?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: To the Minister of Energy.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: When the three parties made election promises to relocate the energy facility in Mississauga, none of us knew what the costs would be. This government accepts the Auditor General’s report.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary. The member from Bruce–Grey–Owen Sound.

Mr. Bill Walker: My question is to the Premier. Premier, the answers that you and your ministers have provided are pathetic. They are disingenuous and disrespectful to the people of Ontario. The AG’s report clearly shows you squandered millions of taxpayer dollars to save Liberal seats in the last election—a billion dollars that could have built new hospitals, provided health care to seniors and kept schools open. I suggest you have known all along the cost implications of your decision to cancel the Mississauga and Oakville gas plants.

Premier, this is about integrity—the integrity of your government and your personal integrity. Will you show integrity now and show us the real facts and cancellation costs of the Oakville gas plant?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: When all three parties made election promises to relocate the gas plants, they did not know what the costs were. They knew that there would be costs. The Auditor General has spent—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. The member from Bruce–Grey–Owen Sound, withdraw.

Mr. Bill Walker: Withdraw.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Halton is not helping either.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: The Auditor General has spent over half a year working with the Ontario Power Authority to calculate the costs, having access to all the documents and all the information. The government has accepted the Auditor General’s report.

PROPERTY TAXATION

Mr. Michael Mantha: My question is to the finance minister. Over a month ago, we raised concerns in the House regarding the dire situation that municipalities are facing due to MPAC and Assessment Review Board decisions. Several months ago, the Assessment Review Board ruled that the town of Espanola must pay $4 million following a property reassessment of its Espanola mill. Months ago, the Minister of Finance said they were aware of the situation and were looking into a solution.

Residents of Espanola live every day in fear that their taxes will increase substantially. Municipalities rely on MPAC assessments to collect local taxes. When the Assessment Review Board decision comes out of left field, the municipalities are left holding the bag.

The government has had much time to think about this issue. Will this government commit to finding actual solutions in a timely fashion before municipalities are forced to put the unfair tax burden on the backs of hard-working Ontarians?

Hon. Charles Sousa: I appreciate the question from the member opposite. It is indeed a concern that is shared by the people of Espanola and, frankly, by our government as well. That’s why we’ve asked MPAC to do a review of the ARB decisions. It is under way, and we look forward to seeing their decision so that we can facilitate the needs of the community while at the same time maintaining competitiveness in our province. So I do appreciate your question. We are reviewing it, and we will get back to you shortly.

CORRECTION OF RECORD

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The government House leader on a point of order.

Hon. John Milloy: I wish to correct my record from question period today. Today I said that the NDP member from Mississauga said we wouldn’t build it. I meant, of course, the member from Toronto–Danforth.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): A point of order from the Minister of the Environment.

Hon. James J. Bradley: Mr. Speaker, you can help me out on this. Are we allowed to give notice of dissatisfaction with a question?

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): No.

DEFERRED VOTES

AMBULANCE AMENDMENT ACT

(AIR AMBULANCES), 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 MODIFIANT

LA

LOI SUR LES AMBULANCES

(SERVICES D’AMBULANCE AÉRIENS)

Deferred vote on the motion for second reading of the following bill:

Bill 11,

An Act to amend the Ambulance Act with respect to air ambulance services / Projet de loi 11, Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les ambulances en ce qui concerne les services d’ambulance aériens.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Call in the members. This will be a five-minute bell.

The division bells rang from 1140 to 1145.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Will the members take their seats, please. Before the Sergeant-at-Arms comes, will the members take their seats, please.

Ms. Matthews has moved second reading of Bill 11. All those in favour, please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Ayes

Albanese, Laura

Armstrong, Teresa J.

Balkissoon, Bas

Bartolucci, Rick

Berardinetti, Lorenzo

Bisson, Gilles

Bradley, James J.

Broten, Laurel C.

Campbell, Sarah

Cansfield, Donna H.

Chan, Michael

Chiarelli, Bob

Colle, Mike

Coteau, Michael

Crack, Grant

Craitor, Kim

Damerla, Dipika

Del Duca, Steven

Delaney, Bob

Dhillon, Vic

Dickson, Joe

DiNovo, Cheri

Duguid, Brad

Fife, Catherine

Flynn, Kevin Daniel

Forster, Cindy

Gerretsen, John

Gélinas, France

Gravelle, Michael

Horwath, Andrea

Hoskins, Eric

Jaczek, Helena

Jeffrey, Linda

Kwinter, Monte

Leal, Jeff

MacCharles, Tracy

Mangat, Amrit

Mantha, Michael

Marchese, Rosario

Matthews, Deborah

Mauro, Bill

McMeekin, Ted

McNeely, Phil

Meilleur, Madeleine

Miller, Paul

Milloy, John

Moridi, Reza

Murray, Glen R.

Naqvi, Yasir

Natyshak, Taras

Orazietti, David

Piruzza, Teresa

Prue, Michael

Qaadri, Shafiq

Sandals, Liz

Schein, Jonah

Sergio, Mario

Singh, Jagmeet

Sousa, Charles

Tabuns, Peter

Takhar, Harinder S.

Taylor, Monique

Vanthof, John

Wong, Soo

Wynne, Kathleen O.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): All those opposed, rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Nays

Arnott, Ted

Bailey, Robert

Barrett, Toby

Chudleigh, Ted

Clark, Steve

Dunlop, Garfield

Elliott, Christine

Fedeli, Victor

Hardeman, Ernie

Harris, Michael

Jackson, Rod

Jones, Sylvia

Klees, Frank

Leone, Rob

MacLeod, Lisa

McDonell, Jim

McKenna, Jane

McNaughton, Monte

Miller, Norm

Munro, Julia

Nicholls, Rick

O’Toole, John

Ouellette, Jerry J.

Pettapiece, Randy

Scott, Laurie

Shurman, Peter

Smith, Todd

Thompson, Lisa M.

Walker, Bill

Wilson, Jim

Yakabuski, John

Yurek, Jeff

The Clerk of the Assembly (Ms. Deborah Deller): The ayes are 65; the nays are 32.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I declare the motion carried.

Second reading agreed to.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Shall the bill be ordered for third reading? Minister of Health and Long-Term Care?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Speaker, I’d ask that the bill be referred to the Standing Committee on General Government.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): So ordered.

There are no further votes. This House stands adjourned until 3 p.m. this afternoon.

The House recessed from 1149 to 1500.

MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS

BOSTON TRAGEDY

Mr. Todd Smith: In his letter to the Romans, St. Paul tells us that “suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope.” On days like today, it seems like hope is all we’re left with. We cannot, nor should we try to explain the evil that exists in our world. We’re left only to endure it, with the promise that we will come out a stronger, more hopeful, more determined people.

Yesterday, in the middle of a serene Boston afternoon that saw the Red Sox win a thrilling walk-off against Tampa Bay at Fenway Park—just moments later and a few miles away, tragedy hit one of the seminal sporting events in the American lexicon.

My friend Cassandra Bonn was one of 2,000 Canadians who were participating in the Boston Marathon. Moments earlier, she had crossed the finish line. As she celebrated a lifetime accomplishment with her husband, Kris, two explosions tore through downtown Boston. Thankfully, they weren’t injured and survived that terrible event.

This senseless act of violence did claim three lives, including that of an eight-year-old boy.

It’s in these moments that our society begins to believe in heroes again. As smoke and shrapnel rained down on Boston yesterday, first responders were joined by runners and spectators so committed to helping the victims that they ran toward the explosion. That’s how you identify the heroes: They’re the ones running into the explosion.

In the face of such brutality, we all suffer. In the wake of such violence, we must all endure, because we only defeat the darkness if we’re able to hand hope to the classmates of that eight-year-old boy.

Pray for Boston today.

TENANT PROTECTION

Mr. Jonah Schein: Recently, I met with constituents of Davenport from the Dupont/Lansdowne area. They’re paying the price for a gaping loophole in our tenant protection laws. I want to thank them for taking the time to share their stories with me.

These are residents who are living in buildings that were not residential prior to 1991, and as such, they’re not covered by the rent increase guidelines in the Residential Tenancies Act. This means that they and hundreds of other residents in Davenport who are living in newer buildings and factory conversions are not protected by rent control laws. Residents are seeing their rents raised arbitrarily, and in some cases by arbitrarily large sums. Some landlords seem to be using this as a way to force out tenants who request simple maintenance repairs.

This loophole affects most deeply those living on the edge and those living in poverty in our community. Fixing this simple loophole in the law would help strengthen protection for tenants and help keep housing a bit more affordable for thousands of Ontarians. This government should take immediate action to close this loophole and start taking further action to protect Ontarians from poverty.

I hope that this government will introduce a budget soon that will begin to address the needs of people living in poverty. We need to see investments made in our child care, in our social assistance and affordable housing programs, and we need this government to raise the minimum wage.

Speaker, the decisions made in this building determine whether the most vulnerable residents can survive and prosper in Ontario or if they will fall deeper into poverty, and we need to take this responsibility seriously.

ISRAELI INDEPENDENCE DAY

Mr. Monte Kwinter: Today we mark Yom Ha’atzmaut, Israeli Independence Day. This is the national day of Israel, commemorating the Israeli declaration of independence in 1948. On this day, the Jewish leadership, led by future Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion, declared Israel an independent state eight hours before the end of the British mandate for Palestine. Today is a day to commemorate the Jewish people’s realization of self-determination.

At noon today, we had an official flag-raising ceremony here at Queen’s Park, honouring Israel’s 65th independence day.

I might add that it is also an opportunity to support ongoing efforts at the international level to bring a just and lasting peace to this region of the world.

Over the past 65 years, the bonds between Ontario and Israel have become established and are strengthened through our shared values of freedom and human rights. Today is not only a day to celebrate Israeli independence, but it is also a day to celebrate the many successes Israel has enjoyed, including Israel’s strength, vibrancy and commitment to democracy.

In Israel today, families will celebrate with picnics and barbecues. Balconies and cars are decorated with Israeli flags. Here in Canada, many Jewish communities, organizations and activity groups hold celebratory events to commemorate the day.

Ontario’s Jewish community has made a tremendous contribution to our economic, social and cultural life. I call on all Ontarians to join me in wishing the nation of Israel peace and prosperity in the year ahead.

RONALD JOHN EDWARDS

Mrs. Jane McKenna: This past weekend, the people of Burlington gathered to offer their final respects to Ronald John Edwards, who passed away peacefully on April 2 at the age of 85 after a lifetime of community service.

Ron was the first executive director of the Burlington YMCA and was best known to the residents of my riding as Mr. Y. He wore that nickname as a badge of honour, and it literally followed him everywhere, as it was also his custom licence plate.

In 2004, the Burlington Y was renamed the Ron Edwards Family YMCA, which is fitting since he lived the values that define the organization: caring, honesty, respect, responsibility and inclusiveness. He championed the Y as a place that all people could enjoy, regardless of financial means.

He was a community builder, and he was generous with his time and energy. Ron was an active Rotarian and recipient of the Paul Harris Fellow award, as well as a member of the Appleby United Church and the Burlington Curling Club.

On behalf of the Progressive Conservative caucus, I would like to extend condolences to his wife, Esther, his children, grandchildren, family, friends and loved ones on the passing of this wonderful, wonderful man.

EQUAL VOICE

Ms. Cheri DiNovo: I’m delighted to rise today because Equal Voice is in the House, and they’re having a reception here. They’re an amazing organization.

I want to tell you that Girls Government was here yesterday. This is an init