Manitoba Hansard — Sitting 37B (40th Legislature, 1st Session)

40-1-37b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

First Session - Fortieth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Daryl Reid Speaker Vol. LXIV No. 37B - 1:30 p.m., Tuesday, May 22, 2012 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Fortieth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLAN, Nancy, Hon. St. Vital NDP ALLUM, James Fort Garry-Riverview NDP ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley NDP ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson NDP BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli NDP BLADY, Sharon Kirkfield Park NDP BRAUN, Erna Rossmere NDP BRIESE, Stuart Agassiz PC CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East NDP CHIEF, Kevin, Hon. Point Douglas NDP CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan NDP CROTHERS, Deanne St.

James NDP CULLEN, Cliff Spruce Woods PC DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk NDP DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood PC EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FRIESEN, Cameron Morden-Winkler PC GAUDREAU, Dave St. Norbert NDP GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Liberal GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach PC GRAYDON, Cliff Emerson PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC HOWARD, Jennifer, Hon. Fort Rouge NDP IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri, Hon. Fort Richmond NDP JHA, Bidhu Radisson NDP KOSTYSHYN, Ron, Hon. Swan River NDP LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. Dawson Trail NDP MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St.

Johns NDP MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden PC MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Flor, Hon. Logan NDP MARCELINO, Ted Tyndall Park NDP McFADYEN, Hugh Fort Whyte PC MELNICK, Christine, Hon. Riel NDP MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East PC NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake NDP OSWALD, Theresa, Hon. Seine River NDP PEDERSEN, Blaine Midland PC PETTERSEN, Clarence Flin Flon NDP REID, Daryl, Hon. Transcona NDP ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Kewatinook NDP RONDEAU, Jim, Hon. Assiniboia NDP ROWAT, Leanne Riding Mountain PC SARAN, Mohinder The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron St. Paul PC SELBY, Erin, Hon. Southdale NDP SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St.

Boniface NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Verendrye PC STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo PC STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon. Dauphin NDP SWAN, Andrew, Hon. Minto NDP TAILLIEU, Mavis Morris PC WHITEHEAD, Frank The Pas NDP WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WIGHT, Melanie Burrows NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC

1505 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Tuesday, May 22, 2012 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Mr. Speaker: Good afternoon, everyone. Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 34–The Public-Private Partnerships Transparency and Accountability Act Hon. Stan Struthers (Minister of Finance ): I move, seconded by the Minister of Education (Ms. Allan), that Bill 34, The Public -Private Partnerships Transparency and Accountability Act, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr.

Struthers : This act will improve transparency and accountability in P3 procurement of major capital projects for the public sector. This bill takes a balanced approach to assuring that P3s are undertaken in a trans parent and accountable manner while taking steps to ensure value for money for Manitoba taxpayers. The legislation will make mandatory many requirements that have been identified by experts as best practice in the P3 field, including P3 Canada, the federal government's Crown corporation responsible for P3s. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Any further bills? PETITIONS Cellular Phone Service in Southeastern Manitoba Mr. Cliff Graydon (Emerson): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And this is the background to this petition: During early October 2011, parts of southeastern Manitoba were hard hit by wildfires. Thanks to the swift action of provincial and municipal officials, including 27 different fire departments and countless volunteers, no lives were lost and property damage was limited.

However, the fight against the wildfires reinforced the shortcomings with the communications system in the regio n, specifically the gaps in cellular phone service. These gaps made it difficult to co -ordinate firefighting efforts and to notify people that they had to be evacuated. The situation would've made it difficult for people to call for immediate medical assistance if it had been required. Local governments, businesses, industries, and area residents have for years sought a solution to this very serious communication challenge.

We petition the Legislative Assembly as follows: To urge the appropriate provinc ial government departments to consider working with all stakeholders to develop a strategy to swiftly address the serious challenges posed by limited cellular phone service in southern–southeastern Manitoba in order to ensure that people and property can be better protected in the future. And this petition has been signed by A. Hatt and E. Lasechuk and A. McGuirk and hundreds of other fine Manitobans. Mr. Speaker: In accordance with our rule 132(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to have been received by the House.

Personal Care Homes and Long-Term Care–Steinbach Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Good afternoon, Mr. Speaker. I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And these are the reasons for this petition: The city of Steinbach is one of the fastest growing communities in Manitoba and one of the largest cities in the province. The growth has resulted in pressure on a number of important services, including personal care homes and long-term care space in the city.

Many long -time residents of the city of Steinbach have been forced to live out their final years outside of Steinbach because of the shortage of personal care homes and long-term care facilities.

1506 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 22, 2012 Individuals who have lived in, worked in and contributed to the city of Steinbach their entire lives should not be forced to spend their final years in a place far from friends and from family. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the Minister of Health ensure additional pe rsonal care homes and long -term care spaces are made available in the city of Steinbach on a priority basis. Mr. Speaker, this petition is signed by E. Reimer, L. Gosselin, M. Dupas and thousands of other Manitobans. TABLING OF REPORTS Hon.

Nancy Allan (Minister of Education): I'm pleased to table the 2011 annual report of the Teachers' Retirement Allowances Fund. Introduction of Guests Mr. Speaker: Prior to oral questions, I have a number of guests in our gallery here today I'd like to introduce to members. And I'd like to draw the attention of honourable members to the public gallery where we have with us today members of the Winkler & District Multi-Purpose Seniors Centre, who are the guests of the honourable Minister of Housing and Community Development (Ms. Irvin-Ross). On behalf of honourable members, we welcome you here this afternoon.

And also we have seated in the public gallery from the Winkler's senior centre 13 visitors who are under the direction of Ms. Sherri Goertzen. This group is locat ed in the constituency of the honourable member for Morden- Winkler (Mr. Friesen) and are also guests of the honourable Minister of Housing and Community Development. And also we have seated in the public gallery from Rosenort School 10 grade 12 students who are under the direction Mr. Arlin Scharfenberger – Scharfenberg, pardon me. This group is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Morris (Mrs. Taillieu).

On behalf of honourable members, we welcome all–you all here this afternoon. ORAL QUESTIONS Photo Radar Grant and Nathaniel Intersection Review Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Mr. Speaker, I join with you in welcoming all of our guests from southern Manitoba. It's important that Manitobans have faith in the laws that govern them and the motives behind those laws. Increasingly, Manitobans are coming to believe that photo radar is more about cash than it is about safety.

Over the past several months, there's been doubt raised and concern raised regarding tickets that've been given out at the Grant and Nathaniel intersection. That doubt only grew on Friday when a Crown attorney suddenly stayed a ticket from this location because they were unable to refute expert testimony. Will this government today determine whether or not they will stay the remaining tickets and conduct a review into all the tickets that were given out at the Grant and Nathaniel intersection? Hon. Dave Chomiak (Acting Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I thank the member for the question, Mr.

Speaker, and want to indicate that a stay was issued in the instance, I believe, that the member's referring to, a stay being a stay of proceedings in law, which means that there's no finding of fac t and, in fact, there's no finding of precedent setting, et cetera, and that that was the matter that was resolved or dealt with last week by virtue of a stay. Mr. Goertzen: Well, Mr. Speaker, it's interesting that the minister who answered is the same minister who refused to refund tickets that were deemed illegal by the court several months ago. Mr.

Speaker, in fact, what happened on Friday was the Crown decided to stay the proceedings because, I believe, that they were concerned –that they were concerned that a precedent would be set if the ticket was found to be not valid, and if, in fact, the court would've overturned that ticket, there would've been thousands of others t hat would've been impacted and a precedent would've been set. If this government is truly concerned about photo radar as a safety measure, it would want Manitobans to have confidence in the photo radar system.

What happened on Friday does nothing to bring confidence to the photo radar system for Manitobans.

May 22, 2012 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1507 Will they conduct a review into the tickets that've been given out at the Grant and Nathaniel intersection so confidence can be returned to Manitobans regarding the photo radar system? Mr. Chomiak: Mr.

Speaker, I thank the member for the question–who will do anything for a headline and, in fact, raise –[interjection]–and, in fact, will, in fact–[interjection]–well, you know, raised in the Legislature an issue that he came across February and was so con cerned about the issue that he waited from February to raise in the Legislature now in May and will raise any issue and, in fact, made the point that I said earlier: there was a stay of proceeding; therefore no precedent was entered into. And the member, I think, went to law school and knows that, Mr.

Speaker, and we know what the reason behind and the rationale is for the member's particular issue that he's raising. A stay was [inaudible] into. There is no finding of fact. There is no precedence. There's no precedent that was set by virtue of that matter. Mr. Goertzen: Well, Mr. Speaker, I'm glad that the Minister of Energy has gotten his energy back, and I hope, in fact, that he'll direct some of that energy into answering the next question. Manitobans are concerned, Mr. Speaker, that photo radar has become simply about cash and not about safety.

They are losing confidence in this system, and they lost more confidence on Friday when the Crown attorney stayed the case rather than risk having the case overturned and having thousands of other tickets go the same way that previous tickets happened here in Manitoba. Mr. Speaker, this government hung on to the money then. They refused to refund money when illegal tickets were issued before, and they were concerned about the same thing happening now. Manitobans have reason to be skeptical. They have reason to be skeptical that photo radar is about cash and it's not about safety.

They can alleviate–this government can alleviate some of that skepticism by ensuring there's a review into the tickets at Grant and Nathaniel. Will they do that today, Mr. Speaker? * (13:40) Mr. Chomiak: Yes, Mr. Speaker. When photo radar was brought in to enable municipalities to utilize photo radar in construction zones and school areas, it was supported by members opposite. In fact, the members opposite–the member opposite for Lac du Bonnet said, I support this 'vill' –bill for obvious reasons. The use of photo radar, red light cameras across the province is not just for limited purposes.

I would urge, of course, all members of the House to support the bill. Mr. Speaker, they supported the introduction of the legislation. They went to municipalities, who then enforced it. He ought to talk to the municipalities instead of raising is sues months and months later just for the attention getting and attention seeking that the member opposite does on his questions. Photo Radar Grant and Nathaniel Intersection Review Mr. Ron Schuler ( St. Paul ): During the last election, the Premier (Mr. Selinger) was asked where he stood on photo radar.

After discussing it with himself, he stated that, and I quote: If the city wants to scrap the program once its contract runs out in two years, I won't stand in the way. We would be open to that. So where, exactly, does the Premier stand on the review of the photo radar tickets at Grant and Nathaniel? Hon. Dave Chomiak (Acting Minister of Justice and Attorney General): As I indicated earlier in the previous question raised by the member for Steinbach (Mr. Goertzen), the–there was a ticket that was stayed on Friday, Mr.

Speaker, which sets no precedent and which is stayed. [interjection] And, well, you know, the members are chirping from their seats as usual. Perhaps they will listen to the response and indicate that a stay means that the matter has been–is not proceeding. No finding of fact has been made; no precedent has been set. And if the member wants a specific information on or legal

interpretation of that, he could talk to one of the Crown attorneys with respect to that. Mr. Schuler: Clearly, for this government and this minister, it's a cut and run. My question is –last year the Premier was asked where he stood on photo radar and he said, and I quote: "We were very concerned about the cash grab component of it." Direct quote, Mr. Speaker. So before the election, candidate Premier says it's a cash grab, and post -election Premier want s to, in his own words, stick it to Manitobans.

1508 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 22, 2012 Is this just another one of this Premier's that-was-then-and-this-is-now approaches on the review of the photo radar tickets at Grant and Nathaniel? Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation): Well, Mr. Speaker, speaking of that was then and this is now, when the legislation establishing photo radar was introduced in this House, the Conservatives had one major concern: that it didn't go far enough. They wanted unlimited photo radar.

They did not want the targeted approach that we had in the legislation, which we still have today, which 'targouts' –targets, by the way, protecting people in terms of intersections, deals with people running red light cameras, the rest of it. So, you know, let's talk about that was then and this is now. Where do the Conservatives stand? Because our approach is to use photo radar for safety; it has been for 10 years. It's making a difference, Mr. Speaker. They're being completely hypocritical in their stand today. Mr. Schuler: I'm pleased it's taking two ministers to answer this question. It's very clear.

We stand –we would like to see review. But the question is –last year the Premier stated, and I quote: "We were very concerned about the cash grab component of it." Perhaps this minister should ask his Premier. So candidate Premier was very concerned that Manitobans not be gouged with 'photar' radar; that was in 2011. Yet now, 2012, post-election Premier is not troubled with, as he puts it, the cash grab component of it. Where does this Premier stand? Where does this government stand? Where does this minister stand on the review of photo radar tickets at Grant and Nathaniel, Mr. Speaker?

We're clear we would like to see it. Where do they stand? Mr. Ashton : Mr. Speaker, I want to put on the record, once again–in fact, the member knows; he was part of the caucus, the Conservative caucus, that wanted unlimited, unfettered 'photar' radar when it was introduced in 2002. And what we said is, it makes sense to use p hoto radar, but not as a substitute for normal traffic enforcement but as a supplement to normal traffic enforcement. And I think everybody in this Legislature knows that one of the greatest areas of potential threat has been with people running red lights. And, Mr.

Speaker, our goal has always been in terms of safety. We also have the TIRF report. We reviewed it. We reviewed it in terms of some of the safety issues. We have adjusted over time in terms of its application, including in construction zones. W e use it for safety, and when it comes to any particular set of traffic tickets that are issued in particular, we have court processes for that. But either you're in favour of safety or you're not. Ten years ago, they were in favour of unfettered photo radar– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order, please. Order, please. Domestic Violence Provincial Rate Increase Mrs.

Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Every year in Manitoba, women suffer violence at the hands of their partners, and tragically, since 2006 at least 40 have lost their lives. Today we learn from Statistics Canada that Manitoba's domestic violence rate has grown to second highest in the country, well above the national average. Can the minister explain what has caused Manitoba's domestic violence rate to grow from sixth in the country in 1999 to second in 2010? Hon. Jennifer Howard (Minister responsible for the Status of Women ): I thank t he member for the question.

I know this is an issue that she is very interested in and has brought forward to this House many pieces of legislation, I think, that have furthered the action on this issue, and I thank her for that. Of course, we know that any victim of domestic violence suffers greatly. Their family suffers greatly, and society suffers greatly. And it pains all of us when those victims die –they are killed by family members–and it's something that's felt, I think, throughout society.

We hav e put in place procedures through the court system, victim services, prevention, campaigns that are targeted at different types of violence. We've taken a look, for example, at cyberstalking, which is, unfortunately, technology gives people new methods to harass and violate people, and we'll continue to put those things in place to try to prevent domestic violence wherever possible. Domestic Violence Death Review Committee Review and Report Availability Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Unfortunately, the minister's family violence

May 22, 2012 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1509 prevention initiatives don't seem to be hitting the mark. Already this year, Manitoba has had more domestic violence deaths than last year. Given that we're No. 2 in the country for domestic violence incidents, can the minister explain why the Domestic Violence Death Review Committee has only reviewed one death since it was established in 2010 and has yet to submit an annual report? Hon.

Jennifer Howard (Minister responsible for the Status of Women): I know the member opposite had a great deal of interest in the establishment of that Domestic Violence Death Review Committee, and I know in establishing it, she will understand that one of the considerations in making sure that committee can do its work is to mak e sure that the confidentiality and privacy of those families who've already had their lives overturned tragically by the deaths of their loved ones, that we don't further compromise their privacy.

And, so, there will be reports issued, but we need to wa it until such a time as we can make sure there are enough–there's enough for the committee to have looked at, that, in releasing a report, it doesn't become clear who they're talking about and they don't compromise the privacy of those families. That committee, of course, is made up of experts in the field. They are doing their work. They're doing it considerately. They want to do it in a way that doesn’t compromise any court proceedings.

I think that the work that they will do will provide us with recommendations to further strengthen the systems that are in place. And I believe the committee is doing good work and that it's going to serve Manitobans well, but it's going to serve them well in a way that we don't further victimize families who've already been through so much. Osborne House Funding Need Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Ontario manages very nicely to review a lot of deaths without compromising patient confidentiality, so I don't see that that needs to be an issue if this government just put the right process in place. Mr.

Speaker, as Manitoba's domestic violence rate has grown to second highest in the country, Manitoba's largest women shelter has been struggling to keep its doors opened. Osborne House has an infrastructure crisis with a fac ility that can't meet the needs of women and children who turn to them in crisis. So I'd like to ask the minister: What is she going to do to ensure that Osborne House does not have to turn women and children away? Hon.

Jennifer Howard (Minister responsible for the Status of Women): I want to be very, very clear because I would not want any –anyone to not seek help or to not report violence because they don't think they'll be received. We will not, in this province, turn any woman, any child away who is seeking protection from violence. We're very clear; shelters all over the province are very clear about that. There are many backup systems in place should a shelter find itself overtaxed, and backup services are in place. * (13:50) We're working with Os borne House.

I've asked the chair of the Manitoba Women's Advisory Council, Marlene Bertrand, who knows this area very well, to work specifically with the board and management of Osborne House. We have put in place a domestic violence review that is ongoing, that is looking at how we fund shelters. It's looking at that model that includes an infrastructure review of shelters, but it's also looking at a full strategy that includes prevention, includes treatment and includes support for victims of violence. Office of the Fire Commissioner Criminal Investigation Mrs. Mavis Taillieu (Morris): Mr.

Speaker, a year ago, the Fire Commissioner, the deputy fire commissioner and another staff were terminated following a probe into alleged financial irregularities. Another person took early retirement. Now, a year later, this minister states on the public record that criminal charges could be laid, but haven't been laid, Mr. Speaker. Can the minister tell us when she first became aware with –about the situation within the Fire Commissioner's office and whether or not this may warrant a criminal investigation? Hon.

Jennifer Howard (Minister of Family Services and Labour): I want to say from the outset that this has been a very challenging situation for the Office of the Fire Commissioner, and a lot of very good people who work in that office, I think, have

1510 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 22, 2012 suffered as a result of the very regrettable actions of some of the staff there. The way this came to light was through the internal audit process in government t hat became aware of the irregularities there. That awareness was acted upon by the Labour Relations Secretariat and the Civil Service Commission. It's at that point that I became aware of what had happened, when those irregularities were found. The action was swift and it was appropriate.

We have referred, through the previous Finance minister, have referred the matter to the Auditor General and asked for her help in doing a forensic review. And in that letter that we sent to her we were specific that we would base our proceedings, in terms of criminal charges or civil charges, on the findings of her forensic review, and when that is completed we'll be able to move forward. Mrs. Taillieu: Well, Mr.

Speaker, the member, during Estimates process, it did say that charges were a distinct possibility, and she says she that has referred it the Auditor General and they want to wait and see what happens there. But, Mr. Speaker, we know that, from Estimates, that that report will not be done until this fall, 15 months after the fact, after these alleged financial irregularities surfaced. Mr. Speaker, if there's any question there may have been criminal activity and the minister knew about it then , why has she not called in the RCMP? Can the minister tells us why is she stalling on calling in the RCMP?

What is she hiding here? Ms. Howard: I think, in this situation, as difficult as it has been, the reaction was swift and appropriate. The people who were in question, there was findings of–through the Civil Service Commission. Those people's jobs were terminated; people retired as a result of that. That office has now been through biweekly reviews with the comptroller's office and Finance. They've put in place a new system of financial checks and balances. The comptroller has noted the progress that they've made and will be doing some final checks with them this summer.

At the time, in July of 2011, the former Finance minister referred the matter t o the Auditor General's office and was very clear that we were asking the Auditor General to do a forensic review on which we would base a decision to go forward with either criminal or civil charges. It would not –I do not make the decision and members o pposite know this. I don't make the decision whether or not to lay charges. That's based on evidence that the police brings forward and that's based on evidence that the Crown decides merits charges, and we're in the process– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Mrs. Taillieu: Well, Mr.

Speaker, it would seem that the appropriate people to conduct an investigation and gather evidence would be the RCMP. Last week, the minister responsible for the Office of the Fire Commissioner repeatedly told MLAs in other Estima tes it is their duty to pass on information for thorough investigation. The minister said, in Estimates, and I quote: Responsibility is to bring forward the specifics of that information, and if he wants to provide that to me privately, I can make sure that it's investigated. End quote. This minister has done nothing to further any RCMP investigation almost a year later.

In fact, she is stalling an RCMP investigation. Does the minister agree that if she has any knowledge of potential criminal activity, t hat she should call in the RCMP? Yes or no, Mr. Speaker. Ms. Howard: I want to be very, very clear. This was found–these irregularities were found internally by government through the normal processes of government. And I think it is testament to those processes, how strong they are, that they found these irregularities, th at action happened immediately in terms of terminating the individuals involved.

Then action was further taken to refer the matter to the Auditor General, and in that referral letter to the Auditor General, it's very specific that we ask the Auditor Gene ral to do her work, to do a forensic review of the books in order to inform government whether or not there are grounds to proceed with criminal or civil charges. That is the work that needs to happen before those further decisions would be taken. That's t he responsible way to go about doing this.

It's very possible that criminal or civil charges could be laid, but at this point, that forensic review has to take place, and it will be on the basis of evidence decisions will be made.

May 22, 2012 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1511 Budget Asset Valuation and Writeoffs Mr. Reg Helwer (Brandon West): Prior to the election, the Minister of Finance told us the deficit was on track. Since then, we've ballooned to a $1.12-billion deficit. Obviously, we've gone off track somewhere. And that's still not including the numbers for the fourth quarter, so we obviously can't trust anything that the Minister of Finance says. Asset valuation is an area on which the minister continues to make misleading statements. The Minister of Finance told us in committee that they revalue assets every year.

The Minister for Infrastructure and Transportation (Mr. Ashton) told us in committee that the Province does not write down assets that they're going to replace. Which are–which is it, Mr. Speaker? Hon. Stan Struthers (Minister of Finance ): And, Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the question. We told Manitobans a couple of years ago that we were going to respond to an economic downturn globally here in Manitoba with a multi-year approach, and that's what we have done. That's what we ran on the election, Mr. Speaker.

That's what we're continuing to do now, and that's what we will have the determination to follow through with. Mr. Speaker, members opposite make a big deal of a $1.12- billion deficit, yet they don't tell us what they would have done differently except to say that they would cut deeply into health care and education and infrastructure, services for kids. That's what they brought into this Legislature in the form of a resolution. I believe what they put in writing rather than what they say in an election. Mr. Helwer: Mr. Speaker, again we've missed the question here, obviously.

The Minister of Finance told this House that the Province follows the generally accepted accounting practices. GAAP isn't like paying back Jets tickets, you know, months after you use them. You don't have a choice. Under GAAP rules, you must write down or write off the assets in the year of loss, in the flood loss, so–or when there's a permanent impairment, not when you think it might look good, you know, when it might feel best for you. How many hundreds of millions of dollars are the provincial assets overvalued by, Mr. Speaker? Mr. Struthers: And, Mr.

Speaker, in the year–in the budget year '11- 12, to get to that deficit that they keep talking about, that's when the flood occurred, that's when the claims were made, that's when the bridges were inspected, that's when roads were inspected. According to the generally accepted accounting principles, that's when we booked that spending. That is absolutely clear, and we've been very clear that this is an ongoing process that we do every year. We look at the writing down of any of the infrastructure that we have in this province. It's normal routine business.

That's the way it has always been done, especially since the years in which we accepted the GAAP principle. Mr. Helwer: Mr. Speaker, I think the Finance Minister is a little, you know, confused here between spending and assets. They are different. If a business were to follow the Province's lead, the owners would be charged with fraud. They'd probably be convicted of fraud. Loans would be recalled. Bankruptcy would be likely. Here we have the Province misleading Manitobans yet again, but this time it's much higher stakes than hiding Jets tickets. * (14:00) Is it $800 million?

Is it 10 per cent of the assets on the books? When will the Finance Minister come clean and show us the true val ue of Manitoba's financial situation? Or is the number in that second set of books he continues to hide under the desk? Mr. Struthers: Talk about confusion over there, Mr. Speaker. I wasn't even going to mention that second set of books that they used to keep underneath the desk. That was common knowledge in the 1990s with members opposite having one set above the desk and one below, but if he wants me to keep talking about that, he should keep working it into his

preamble like he did, I guess. Mr. Speaker , this government is going to do what–the routine, normal practice that has been done year after year. It's the same practice that happened the year before last and the year before last. We will follow the generally accepted accounting principles, as we've done for several years. There's nothing out of the ordinary in terms of the way we approach that part of the budget, that part of the budgeting process, and we will follow those generally– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order, please.

1512 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 22, 2012 Flooding (Delta Beach) Financial Compensation Claim Delays Mr. Ian Wishart (Portage la Prairie): Mr. Speaker, last May the Premier (Mr. Selinger) said he was giving flood victims his word–his word –that they would not face the flood alone, yet many residents of Delta Beach are n ow marking one year out of their homes and cottages due to this man -made flood on Lake Manitoba. Many still don't know when they can return to their properties for good, when they'll be compensated, when or if the debris will be clean–will finally be cleaned up. Mr.

Speaker, will the Premier explain why he broke his word and has left flood victims like those at Delta Beach with more questions than answers about how they'll recover from this devastating flood? Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister responsible for Emergency Measures ): Well, Mr. Speaker, and if the member will think back to May of last year and June and July, one of the key messages from people in around Lake Manitoba and around Lake St. Martin was–they asked for a number of things, but one thing they asked for more than anything else, and that was to build an outlet out of Lake St.

Martin to allow for further water be drained out of Lake Manitoba. I'm pleased to put on the record that that was built November 1st. It was built on time. It was built on budget and has made a significant difference on the level of both Lake Manitoba and Lake St. Martin. But just as we met the challenge of fighting the flood last year, Mr. Speaker, a flood that continues to have impacts this year, we've indicated very clear ly that we're committed to reconstruction and rebuilding around Lake Manitoba and Lake St. Martin and other flood -affected areas.

And we already paid out $650 million towards that, but we won't rest until we get everybody back to normal. That's our goal. Mr. Wishart: Mr. Speaker, last May the Finance Minister, at a Langruth, Manitoba, meeting, said that his government expected to flow support for flood victims within a matter of weeks. Flood victim Cindy Clarkson has been on– out of her Delta Beach home for a year. She told a Winnipeg radio station this morning that the situation has been very frustrating and that there doesn't seem to be any kind of leadership. Mr.

Speaker, I ask the minister: Why did he make promises to flood victims that he knew he couldn't keep? Why are we still in limbo a year or more later? Mr. Ashton : Well, indeed, Mr. Speaker, there are many Manitobans still away from home, and I would note that over 2,400 Manitobans still away from their homes. The vast majority are First Nations people, particularly in and around Lake St. Martin. And I do want to put on the record that it was the people in around Lake St. Martin were a key part of building that project that benefited all Lake St. Martin to Lake Manitoba.

And I want to put on the rec ord as well, Mr. Speaker, that we're dealing with many circumstances throughout the flood-affected areas. In fact, we have over 30,000 claims. That compares, in the Flood of the Century, 1997, to 10,000 claims. We're dealing with all sorts of situation in terms of reconstruction, compensation, flood assistance. But I want to put on the record again, Mr. Speaker, our commitment. Just as it was to flight the 'fud' together last year, working with our partners in municipalities and many people in the flood-affected areas, that's our goal.

I believe we've made significant progress, but we will not rest until everybody is back to normal. Mr. Wishart: Mr. Speaker, last May this NDP government made many promises to flood victims. They promised to make programs efficient and effective so people could get up and running as soon as possible. They have failed miserably. Today, Delta Beach resident Cindy Clarkson voiced those concerns shared by many, many Manitoba flood victims. They are concerned about delays in compensation, following delays in getting permission to rebuild, delays in clean up, and the list goes on. Mr.

Speaker, will this government finally demonstrate some leadership and deliver the long overdue compensation so flood victims can begin the recovery process? Mr. Ashton : I want to repeat, Mr. Speaker, so the member will have some sense of the immense challenge here, 30,000 claims, but I want to put on the record that we've already processed over $650 million, but we're going to continue to work with each situation. And I do want to also hope that the member's not being critical of the many people in the various municipalities who are a key part of that response.

May 22, 2012 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1513 It's–put on the record, it was a one -in-a-400-year flood. And many parts of the province, including Lake Manitoba, Lake St. Martin, on the Assiniboine River, on the Souris, we had 'unprecededed' flooding, 'unprecededed' damage, but our commitment from day one has been to get people back to normal. Mr. Speaker, are we making progress? Y es. Is there a lot more to be done? Absolutely, and we're going to meet the challenge of that historic reconstruction. Flood Review Task Force Independence of Review Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr.

Speaker, in February the Premier (Mr. Selinger) appointed David Farlinger as the chair of the 2011 Flood Review Task Force. Today, the CBC revealed that Mr. Farlinger, his company, the Farlinger Consulting Group, and the company Energy Consultants International, of which he's a principal, have received m ore than $2 million in provincial government contracts over the last number of years. The government was obviously aware of Mr. Farlinger's past government contracts when he was appointed, and I ask the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation: Did h e not realize that the government was putting Mr.

Farlinger in a compromised position because of his past frequent contracts with this government? Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister responsible for Emergency Measures ): Mr. Speaker, I think it's important to note that Mr. Farlinger is a professional engineer, a civil engineer, and, you know, we hire engineers to work for government. We also hire consulting engineers, and I can tell you one thing about engineers in this province: they have a high code when it comes to professional integrity. I know, my son's one, I don't mean to be biased.

I work with engineers in the department, but I can tell you, the fact that he's done work for this province since 1997, going back to that flood, shows his competence, Mr. Speaker, and those kind of competent engineers are one of the key ingredients that we had last year in fighting the flood. So I would hope the member's not in any way impugning the professional integrity of Mr. Farlinger. He's a fine engineer, a fine Manitoban. Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Farlinger is an honourable man and a professional, but this government has put him in a very awkward, compromising position.

It is important for all Manitobans that this review is independent, and clearly independent, and that it's chaired by somebody who is independent. The problem is that people's views need t o be heard and those that are contrary to the government's view also need to be heard and considered. I ask the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation: Will he continue to give David Farlinger government contracts after the supposed independent review of 2011 is completed, and might such contracts be actually dependent on the way the review is written? Mr. Ashton: Well, Mr.

Speaker, I –you know, I just cannot believe the question from the member opposite. First of all, I want to point out that the task force contains many representatives, many stakeholder groups, will bring a broad representation to the task force. We're talking about the chair, who is a civil engineer, but the task force has representation from many Manitobans. We're also going to be having public hearings, they are setting a schedule, my understanding it will start very shortly. So Manitobans will have every opportunity to make a difference. But, you know, we have experience with this; it's called 1997.

After the flood of 1997, we had the IGC report, the KGS report. It recommended what led to the diking in the Red River Valley and the expanded floodway. It meant that in 2009, with the flood worse than 1950, we had better impacts. We had no homes flooded in the Red River. Who was involved with that, Mr. Speaker? Mr. Farlinger. He served the province well then; he will serve the province well now. * (14:10) Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, never in the history of our province has there ever been such an extensive and costly flood as that in 2011.

Never in the history of our province has there ever been such a flood which is steeped in such controversy as the flood of 2011. There is a huge argument between this government and many on Lake Manitoba over whether there was artificial flooding or not. It is vital that there is somebody who can really stand independent of government.

1514 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 22, 2012 I ask the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation: Will he now replace David Farlinger as chair with somebody who is truly independent from outside the provinc e so that not only do we have independence, we have the perception of independence and we can be assured then that this person won't be receiving government contracts which were dependent on what's written in the 2011 flood report? Mr. Ashton : Well, Mr.

S peaker, I cannot believe that the member opposite would stoop so low as to criticize and question the professional integrity of someone who's served this province well, and I want to repeat that it hadn't been–[interjection] Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Point of Order Mr. Gerrard: I stand on a point of order because the comments of this minister are outrageous. I never questioned the professional integrity of Mr. Farlinger. David Farlinger is an honourable gentleman. The problem is in this government. They have put Mr.

Farlinger in untenable position as chair when he's receiving contracts and could be receiving contracts in the future. Mr. Speaker: Well, on point of order raised by the member for River Heights, I have to indicate to the member that's –it ap pears to be a dispute over the facts that are occurring during question period here this afternoon. So there is no point of order. * * * Mr. Speaker: The honourable Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation, to conclude his remarks. Mr. Ashton: And last year during the flood, we had unprecedented response from our engineers.

The engineers worked for this department, in fact, incredible mounts of overtime. The professional expertise that we had is that–but we also did–we also went to the consulting engineers, and if it hadn't been for the consulting engineers at KGS and AKON, for example, we'd never completed the outlet from Lake Manitoba. We relied on engineers because in this province we have some of the best engineers in the world, and you know what? And the member opposite–he may ask for Mr. Farlinger to be removed, but he has every confidence of this government. He's a competent engineer.

He knows what professionalism is about and we need exactly that kind of expertise to help the recovery in this province. Bill 34 Government Intent Mr. Dave Gaudreau (St. Norbert): Mr. Speaker, public-private partnerships can provide an opportunity for the public sector to build projects. Manitobans deserve to know if public -private partnerships are the best approach to building a building or an asset. Can the Finance Minister tell the House what steps the government is taking to ensure that these projects follow a process that is clear and transparent? Hon.

Stan Struthers (Minister of Finance): Yes, and I thank my friend for that question. First of all, the–Manitobans, I think, require their government to take a –an approach that reflects through fiscal responsibility in terms of disclosure of plans, and when it comes to contract agreements, when it comes to public -private partnerships, Mr. Speaker, that's why we've proposed legislation that, I think, combines best practices with some of the guidelines of the –from the federal government, to put in place an open, transparent, accountable process by which we make these decisions.

And specific what this legislation does, is three things: It –it's a preparation of risk and value for money analysis, it's a–it provides for the consultation with public, and it appoints an independent fairness monitor that can oversee their –and review –the procurement process. So, Mr. Speaker, we're very cl ear that we want to be open– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Lyme Disease Diagnoses and Patient Services Mr. Cliff Graydon (Emerson): Mr. Speaker, Holly Driedger suffers from Lyme disease. Lyme disease is transmitted through deer ticks and is a very much treatable ailment if diagnosed in time.

In Manitoba, Holly could not get a proper diagnosis and her condition kept deteriorating. She told medical staff in this province to check for Lyme disease and was ignored and discounted. After Holly travelled to New York state to see a specialist at a great financial cost, she was finally diagnosed.

May 22, 2012 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1515 Mr. Speaker, I ask the Minister of Health: Can the doctors in Manitoba properly diagnose Lyme disease? Hon. T heresa Oswald (Minister of Health): Yes, Mr. Speaker, they can. Indeed, there has been extensive work done specifically on the subject of Lyme disease here in Manitoba. There's been a public forum that has been hosted. There has been an exchange of information among our health- care professionals concerning signs a nd symptoms of Lyme disease.

We know that with the marvellous spring that we had there was increased risk earlier on of the ticks that carry Lyme disease, and so earlier than usual warnings have gone out to affected areas. So we’re taking a comprehensive approach. We know that we rely on the expertise of our medical professionals to make appropriate diagnoses and, indeed, to create a course of treatment, and we believe our professionals here in Manitoba are very equipped to do that. Mr. Graydon: Well, with an improper diagnosis and time to infiltrate the body, Lyme disease can do a great deal of damage.

Late- stage Lyme degree– disease can manifest in the body with similar symptoms to congestive heart failure, including physical disability and high levels of fatigue. Mr. Speaker, Holly Driedger is in that position right now. She's unable to speak, she's unable to work, and has been rejected for long-term disability. I ask this Minister of Health today: What will this government do for the sufferers of Lyme disease? Ms.

Oswald: And, indeed, in many ways the member opposite makes the point that the diagnosis of Lyme disease is very complex, and our health-care professionals here in Manitoba are working very, very hard to develop their knowledge even further and to do–to use best practice in the diagnosis and analysis. We know that there was an international conference hosted right here in Manitoba where experts got together to share information to enable them to make more accurate diagnoses.

And, indeed, we want to be able to support Manitobans at all times, whether they've been diagnosed with Lyme disease or other circumstances that may present in a similar way. We want to ensure that we have broad options for them within the health-care system and, indeed, we want to have supports for them outside of the health- care system so that we can do everything we can to assist them on their journey to wellness. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Time for oral questions has expired. Introduction of Guests Mr.

Speaker: I'd like to draw the honourable members' attention to the public gallery where we have with us today a Member of Parliament for Surrey North, Mr. Jasbir Sandhu, who is the guest of the honourable member for Maples (Mr. Saran). On behalf of all honourable me mbers, we welcome you here this afternoon. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Beausejour 100th Anniversary Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Lac du Bonnet): I rise today to honour the town of Beausejour which is celebrating its 100th anniversary this year.

Beausejour is thriving–is a thriving rural community located about 45 minutes east of Winnipeg with a population of approximately 3,200 residents. Beausejour is situated on the edge of Manitoba's incredible cottage country, and plays host to many visitors from all over who like to head to the lake to pass their summers, and go ice fishing or snowmobiling on our beautiful trails in the winter. In fa ct, Beausejour is probably best known for hosting the Canadian Power Toboggan Championship races, a yearly national event that also celebrated its 50th anniversary this year.

Beausejour began much like any –like many small rural settlements in Manitoba. W ith the establishment of the railway in the late 19th century, families from Poland, Germany and Russia came and settled, and a lot of those families still reside there today. Even though Beausejour's main industry has always been agriculture, it has show n economic diversity over the years. In 1906, a local man named Joseph Kielback, whose family still resides in the Beausejour area, established the first glass container factory in western Canada, and has since been designated a provincial historic site.

Beausejour was also the home of Polaris Industries and the Beausejour creamery that supplied grocery stores around the province with Beausejour butter. Industries have come and gone over the years, but the families remain. The reason for that may be in the name itself, since Beausejour means a beautiful resting place.

1516 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 22, 2012 In lieu of Beausejour's centennial celebrations, I invite all Manitobans to attend the broken head– Broken-Beau Historical Society's heritage day festival on Sunday, August 5th, 2012, and take a walk through Beausejour's history as –at the Pioneer Village Museum, which this year will include the addition of Schreyer house, the home of former Manitoba premier and Canadian Governor General, Ed Schreyer.

As the member from Lac du Bonnet, it is wi th great pride and privilege that I serve my community, tell their story and I–and that I represent the residents of Beausejour, and rise to honour their 100th- year anniversary. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. * (14:20) Vision Quest Conference and Trade Show Mr. Frank Whitehead (The Pas): On May 16th, I had the opportunity to attend and speak at the 16th annual Vision Quest Conference and Trade Show at the Winnipeg Convention Centre. This event brings together Aboriginal business owners, youth, community leaders, government representatives and many others.

Here they discuss Aboriginal issues, business, community and economic development in Manitoba. This event helps foster vision, further dialogue and opens people's eyes to different possibilities. It also builds cultural awareness for a broad audience. Over the past 15 years, more than 10,000 people have participated in this unique conference. Many youth from OCN, who have gone to Vision Quest in the past, have told me about the friendships they formed and the employment opportunities they learned at that conference.

The keynote speaker was former Olympian, Waneek Horn -Miller, who shared an excellent message of hope, hard work and perseverance. And, as a 14 -year-old Mohawk girl at the Oka crisis, she was stabbed during the standoff. But years later, she went to the 2000 Olympics as the co- captain of the women's water polo team. Now she is trying to improve health and wellness for First Nations Canadians through a program on the Aboriginal Peoples Television Netw ork. She's an outstanding role model and an inspiring speaker.

Aboriginal people are increasingly taking leadership positions in every sector of society, including the business world. This is great news for Manitoba. The future success of this province is , in many ways, dependent upon the future success of Aboriginal people. In fact, over the next 10 years, one in three new entrants to our labour force will be Aboriginal. Events like Vision Quest 2012 help people, young and old, build the skills and partnerships they need to succeed. I would like to congratulate everyone who works hard every year to make Vision Quest happen. Thank you. Tribal Councils Investment Group Mr.

Dennis Smook (La Verendrye): Mr. Speaker, I rise today in honour of the Tribal Councils Investment Group of Manitoba Ltd., which is the Manitoba Chamber of Commerce 2012 recipient of the Lieutenant -Governor's Award for Outstanding Contribution to the Community by a business. The Manitoba Chambers of Commerce honour a prominent busine ss each year that provides an exceptional contribution to the prosperity of their community. The Tribal Councils Investment Group was founded in 1990 by seven tribal councils in Manitoba, representing 55 First Nation communities and more than a hundred thousand people.

The Tribal Council Investment Group was created to act as the investment arm of its shareholders by combining the investment capacity of the individual tribal councils. Therefore, the Tribal Council Investment Group pooled the resources of t heir First Nations communities and created a substantial wealth management and investment strategy, as well as financial service industries opportunities for Aboriginal people.

The Tribal Council Investment Group is designed to contribute financially to Aboriginal communities by using their dividends to create positive impacts on the quality of life of Aboriginal people and communities. The Tribal Council Investment Group's key objectives are to achieve double- digit growth, be financially independent and to become a credible and prominent member of the Manitoba business community.

We can clearly see how the Tribal Council Investment Group has achieved its latter objective through the accolades they have been given by the Manitoba Chambers of Commerce and the Lieutenant-Governor of Manitoba. The Tribal Council Investment Group has, in fact, exceeded all of its initial objectives within their mandate and successfully financed the National First Nations

May 22, 2012 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1517 School Breakfast Program which, in 2011, served over 257,000 breakfasts to over 1,500 children. The Tribal Council Investment Group is a pioneer for the Aboriginal community and fits within the successful business paradigm of Manitoba's co-operative organizations. The Tribal Council Investment Group serves as an important function for the pride and self -determination of the First Nations communities in Manitoba and Canada, and it's truly an honour to bring to their incredible achievements in our Assembly today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Snow Lake Mining Museum Mr.

Clarence Pettersen (Flin Flon): On the heels of National Mining Week, I would like to speak about a true gem that is located in Snow Lake, Manitoba, the Snow Lake Mining Museum. A 14,000 square-foot museum serves as a testament to the importance of mining to the community of Snow Lake. This area has been a prolific mining powerhouse for the last century, producing metals such as silver, gold, copper and zinc. Snow Lake traces its history to 1927, when local prospector C.R. Parres staked a gold claim on the site that would later become the town of Snow Lake.

His find would become a fully operating gold mine when in 1943 the Howe Sound Exploration Company began developing it. This mine is still in operation today, nearly 70 years later. The Snow Lake Mining Museum itself opened in 1996 and has since become a significant tourist destination for Snow Lake. Gaining Star Attraction status in 2006, it features many displays and types of equipment that give visitors a fuller understanding of mining operations and their place in Snow Lake's history and future.

Visitors learn of the difficult work that miners face and the technological advances that have been –made prospecting and exploration, diamond drilling, shaft sinking and underground mining methods easier . With a mandate to preserve and present the exploration and mining way of life which opened up the north, the museum is a reflection of life in Snow Lake and northern resource communities more generally. Mr. Speaker, mining has a long history and a bright future in Snow Lake. The world- class Lalor mine is currently under development and many other mines are still in operation.

Mining has allowed towns like Snow Lake and others in my constituency to flourish and sustain themselves, often in remote locations. As such, I commend the Snow Lake Mining Museum for serving as a source of the history of mining in the area, and I hope all members will join me in celebrating the role as a educational institution. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: Any further members' statements? * (14:30) Marnie Erb Mrs. Mavis Taillieu (Morris): I would just like to make a statement today in regard to Mrs. Marnie Erb that–she passed away on Mother's Day.

She was a very good friend and well -known person within the Red River School Division. She was a teacher at J.A. Cuddy School in Sanford for over 30 years, a wonderful person in the community, always was there for every student that she saw through elementary and when they further went on to Sanford Collegiate. She later went on to become a member of the Red River Valley school board and served as the chair in most recent years. She was a person that was always at every event.

She was very well -known in the community, and in small communities like that people are very interrelated , lots of friends and relatives close by. I did attend a memorial service for her last Thursday and, just to say how many people were there, the church was overflowing with people that wanted to come and pay their respects to this wonderful woman who had served so well. She was a sports fan, Mr. Speaker. She was avidly, as I said, avidly involved with her students at every level, even to the point where she wanted to go and be with them in later things that they did in life.

She was also a talented baker, I understand, and we learned this at the service for her, that everything that she did she would get up early and she would bake fresh buns or fresh baking to take either to the school, to a meeting or to some sporting event. She and her husband, Lorne, who I know personally–have known Lorne for many, many years–were involved with international –the Scouts international; Lorne was a scoutmaster. They attended many, many events. She attended with him to many events, Mr. Speaker.

In–later on in years they d id some travelling, and it's very, very unfortunate, the untimely death of Marnie Erb who

1518 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 22, 2012 passed away all too soon and with a very relatively short illness, but ultimately it did take her life. And so we are all very sorry for that and she will be very missed by all of her family and friends. Thank you very much. ORDERS OF THE DAY (Continued) GOVERNMENT BUSINESS House Business Hon. Dave Chomiak (Deputy Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, I wonder if you might resolve the House into Committee of Supply. Mr. Speaker: We'll now resolve into the Committee of Supply. Mr. Deputy Speaker, will you please take the Chair.

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) HEALTHY LIVING, SENIORS AND CONSUMER AFFAIRS * (14:40) Mr. Chairperson (Mohinder Saran): Order. Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. Before we begin, I would like to remind members to ensure their electronic devices are in silent mode and to also speak mor e closely into the microphones. Now, this

section of the Committee of Supply will now consider the Estimates of the Department of Healthy Living, Seniors and Consumer Affairs. Does the honourable minister have an opening statement? Hon. Jim Rondeau (Minister of Healthy Living, Seniors and Consumer Affairs ): I'm pleased to present the 2012- 13 Estimate expenditures for Healthy Living, Seniors and Consumer Affairs. It's an honour to lead this new department that is dedicated to prevention measures, health promotion, seniors' issues and services, and a fair marketplace for consumers and businesses 'bose' landlords and tenants.

We are committed to working with Manitobans to provide support across a broad spectrum of healthy living, seniors services and consum er protection. Healthy living focuses on wellness and prevention. We are working to create healthy living opportunities that are meaningful to every Manitoban, of every age, in every community. This year we are proud to have introduced legislation that would further protect children by expanding the use of booster seats through a higher age, weight and height requirements. That was just introduced just a short while ago.

In addition to booster seats, we're interested in ensuring Manitobans are protected from catastrophic head injuries while they're riding bicycles, and we will continue to work with stakeholders on this important topic and move this issue forward. We have also introduced legislation that would reduce the points of sale of tobacco products s tarting in the pharmacies and health -care facilities, because we know this has a positive impact on youth access to tobacco and helps support smokers with quitting and staying quit.

We are also the first province in Canada to have a caregiver recognition act, which was last announced–which was announced last year. Since then, we have begun an extensive consultation process with Manitoba's informal caregivers, hosted Manitoba's first Caregiver Recognition Day, appointed members to the Manitoba caregiver council and actually gotten a lot of correspondence in this issue. We are also very busy on the consumer protection front with many new initiatives designed to assist Manitoba consumers.

For example, we have introduced amendments to The Consumer Protection Act that will ensure fair treatment of consumers when they get their cars repair, and we have introduced cellphone legislation, which comes to effect September 15th to ensure cellphone contracts are fair and clear. Enforcing Manitoba's tough payday lending rules also continues to be a key element of our consumer protection strategy, and we are further amending legislation to ensure the best possible protection for payday loan consumers in Manitoba.

This year, we'll also provide funding for –from a payday borrowers' financial literacy fund towards a two-day conference creating community options for financial services that will be held in Winnipeg in June. We're proud to be undertaking all of these important initiatives at a time when our department budget has been held to the same level as last year, to

May 22, 2012 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1519 assist our government's commitment to return to balance by 2014. We are committed to carefully reviewing our in -year expenditures, as well as remaining innovative in our programming to ensure our funds are to be used to the utmost benefit to Manitobans. In the Healthy Living side of my portfolio, we continue to develop and promote ways to improve health status in Manitobans, and create environments where healthy choice is the easy choice.

This includes our in motion program, that now has 70 per cent of all schools in the province registered and over 150 companies participating. I am pleased to report that ove r 75 per cent of Manitobans now live in an in motion community. Another example of our important community -based programming is Healthy Together Now, which is being implemented in 83 communities including 21 First Nations and seven Métis communities.

Our government has invested in a number of food security and nutrition initiatives such as the extremely popular Farm to School healthy food fundraiser, and we continue to provide ongoing support for the nutrition policy, trans fat legislation related to schools, Northern Healthy Foods Initiative. We will also renew our efforts to reduce tobacco use through the expansion of our school -based programming, which will add another 20 SWAT teams–that's students working against tobacco–in the upcoming year. We also worked on a Create and Rate program, where kids are developing their own commercials or ads.

Manitoba's continued investment in addictions has contributed to an increased in the number of Manitobans who receive care. Manitoba agencies have been work togethe r to manage wait times and there have been improvements. In addition, a central intake pilot will begin and enhanced training opportunities will mean earlier detection of problematic substance abuse among youth. River Point Centre is also expected to be ready for occupancy in June 2013. The addition of policy and prevention and promotion of mental health and spiritual health is an important new responsibility for our department.

In 2011, Manitoba released a provincial mental health strategic plan and host ed a national mental health summit. Three hundred officials from across North America attended this very successful event and the response was overwhelmingly positive. Our Seniors and Healthy Aging Secretariat continues to support communities with the Age-Friendly Manitoba Initiative. I'm happy to report, Mr. Chair, that 85 communities representing approximately 80 per cent of Manitoba's population are currently committed to becoming more age- friendly.

This year we continue to work with many partner organizations such as the Manitoba Chamber of Commerce, Good Neighbours Active Living Centre to further enhance the age- friendly initiative and support age -friendly communities in the Milestone Recognition Program and the availability of age -friendly resource team to help provide community supports. Also, this past year we introduced a 24 hour, seven–24 hour a day, seven days a week senior abuse support line that provides counselling information and follow -up support to older adults and others concerned that an older adult may be experiencing abuse.

And our department is increasingly ongoing to–support to Age and Opportunity to allow universal availability of the SafetyAid program which has been wonderful on falls prevention. This winter we brought in new regulations to address a new form of debt services, known as debt settlement. We responded quickly with new rules to the 'chairging' of upfront fees for the services. In addition, the Consumer and Corporate Affairs division in our department has been an excit ing welcome change as they work for each and every Manitoban.

We have introduced a number of measures to address the strong demand for rental accommodation, to better manage conversion of apartments to condos. Municipalities will now be able to control c ondo conversions when vacancy rates are low to allowing tenants more time to find alternative accommodation. We have also implemented the longer notice periods for those tenancies that are necessary due to building renovations.

In addition, changes that ha ve taken effect in June this year will lengthen the time landlords have to recover the cost of some capital expenditures, therefore, lowering rent increases in some cases. Tenants and landlords, also, now have access to independent adviser services. This s ervice is a pilot project that enables both parties to bring forward their specific issues with greater confidence and understanding the process.

1520 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 22, 2012 I'm pleased to advise the property registry is currently a –has a multi -year client service improvement initiative under way. Important pieces of the project such as online surveys and documents have already been implemented. We're also working on a service improvement project at the company's office that will provide clients with an online filing option by the year end. These are just some of the many programs we're undertaking to assist Manitobans who work in our department rely on the services.

It's indeed a pleasure to oversee the portfolio for the broad range of important responsibilities, and it's been a pleasure to work with a good group of professionals who really care about Manitobans, care about their jobs and make a difference every day. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chairperson: We thank the minister for those comments. Does the official opposition c ritic have any opening comments? Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): I don't have a whole lot to say in opening statements, other than to say I look forward as a new critic in this area, newly assigned to me in the last go around of changes.

So I will cert ainly be looking at getting an understanding of what is happening within Healthy Living and Seniors, and I look forward to asking the minister questions in those areas and to get a better sense of how the department has been reorganized. And I just want to say that I know with Healthy Living there is certainly a number of challenges that I'm sure the department faces in addressing this issue with the larger public, and I look forward to hearing what the minister has to say in terms of some of the efforts that are being made to take on some of the challenges that are coming down the road.

And I just want to indicate that I am very appreciative of all the work that –and all the effort that staff put into developing programs and evaluating programs and looking for opportunities to improve. I think that there are a number of good things that do happen in Manitoba and I –sometimes when I'm looking across the country, I don't think sometimes in Manitoba we acknowledge the innovative opportunities that are going on here.

And some of the, you know, the leadership that we see in a lot of areas, whether it's in Healthy Living or Health or any number of departments, I think within the civil service, I think we have some incredible talent, and it's always interesting to look at what we're doing. And, you know, as I do research and look across Canada and look at some of the innovations here, I'm really pleased to see some of those new initiatives.

And I think it's really exciting and I think it's good to be a leader, a nd I think, you know, being a model for what can help improve in this area, within the province and across country, is certainly something that we should be striving for, and I look forward to asking the minister questions throughout the day. Thank you. Mr. Chairperson: We thank the critic from the official opposition for her remarks. Under Manitoba practice, debate on the minister's salary is the last item considered by a department in the Committee of Supply. Accordingly, we shall now defer considerati on of line item 34.1(

a) contained in resolution 34.1. At this time, we invite the minister's staff to join us at the table, and we ask that the minister introduce the staff in attendance. Mr. Rondeau : The staff that I have with me right now are –is Cindy Stevens, who's the deputy minister; Dave Paton, who's the executive director of finance and administration; Jennifer Hibbert, who's director of financial services; Marcia, where's Marcia? Oh there, sorry, who's the assistant deputy minister of Healthy Living. Mr. Chairperson: Thank you.

Does the committee wish to proceed through the Estimates of the department chronologically or have a global discussion? Mrs. Driedger: I think we'll get through it all faster if we just have a global discussion. Mr. Chairperson: Thank you. Mr. Rondeau: Just for clarification, let's keep to the Healthy Living part of the department today, and then we'll do Consumer Affairs another day, right? So, we'll just do Healthy Living and Seniors today. Mr. Chairperson: Member for Charleswood, agreed? Mrs. Driedger: That's exactly the intent for today that's been negotiated, yes. Mr. Chairperson: Thank you.

It is agreed that –then that the questions for the department will proceed in a global manner with all resolutions t o be passed

May 22, 2012 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1521 once questioning has concluded. The floor is now open for questions. Mrs. Driedger: In looking at the supplementary information and the Estimates book, I am looking at page 5 and I have some questions for the minister, in terms of the organizational chart. When we look at administration and finance and then going across that whole section, Seniors and Healthy Living, there's names attached to all these people across but no titles, and I've actually never seen that before, where we've not seen a title attached to the person's name.

Wonder if the minister could go across and indicate the titles for David Paton, Patti Chiappetta, Alex Morton, Tina Sinclair, Marcia Thomson, and Fran Schellenberg? Mr.

Rondeau : And for the honourable member, what I usually do is say the finance person or the seniors person, et cetera, so I'm not good on titles, so I apologize to that. * (14:50) Finance and administration: Dave Paton's the executive director of finance and admin; Seniors and Healthy Aging: Patti Chia ppetta is the executive director of that branch; Consumer and Corporate Affairs: Alex Morton is the assistant deputy minister; Addictions policy and support is Tina Leclair: she's the executive director; Healthy Living and Populations: I believe Marcia is called the assistant deputy minister for Healthy Living and Populations; and Fran Schellenberg is the executive director of Mental Health and Spiritual Health.

Mrs. Driedger: Can the minister give an overview of how the Council on Aging is set up, and how people are appointed to that council and who that council reports to? Mr. Rondeau: The Manitoba Council on Aging is a advisory body to government.

It's through the Minister of Healthy Living, Seniors and Consumer Affairs, and what they are is they're app ointed through an OIC, order -in-council, and they provide me, as the Minister of Healthy Living and Seniors, advice on a number of topics; it could be on housing, could be on pensions, could be on health issues or issues on seniors, and they provide me tha t as an open discussion and an ongoing discussion. But it's through an order -in-council that's provided through the normal processes.

We try to have it so that all areas the provinces are represented, different demographic groups are represented, different groups from everywhere. Mrs. Driedger: How many people are on the council and how often do they meet? Mr. Rondeau: Right now there's 14 people who are serving on it, and they meet four to five times a year. They–and one of those is, basically, outside of –out of Winnipeg. They call it the road trip, and so last year they went to two rural communities, and this year I believe they're also trying to go to one or two rural communities to hear what the issues are outside the city too. Mrs.

Driedger: Can the minister provide a list of who's on that Council on Aging? Mr. Rondeau: I assume there'll be a list of stuff that we can provide at the end. Is that okay if I can get it all to you in a package at the end? Mrs. Driedger: Certainly, we can do that, as long as the minister follows through. Can the minister tell us where the previous deputy minister, Jan Sanderson, went? Mr. Rondeau : When the two ministries were separated, she went with the Children and Youth Opportunities department–or ministry, so, she's over there right now.

We thought it was more appropriate, because she's had a long and very positive experience with children as far as the Healthy Child Committee and the secretariat there. So she went with the Children and Youth Opportunities ministry. Mrs. Driedger: Can the minister indicate why he does not have a deputy minister that's just specific to this department; why there is a sharing? That must be quite a huge job for the deputy to have to carry on Healthy Living, Seniors, Consumer Affairs, Culture, Heritage, Tourism and whatever else. Why would the deputy minister be carrying such a heavy load? Mr.

Rondeau : First, I'd like to compliment my deputy, because she's very good at what she does. She's almost as active as me, which is kind of scary, because we have a reputation for being active. So she's very good on communications. I have to say that she's been very, very good at the communications, at the dialogue with the different communities and we thought there was a lot of synergies with the Cu lture department and Seniors and Healthy Living, and so we thought it was a good

1522 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 22, 2012 fit. And I have to admit that I really enjoy working with her. She's a very, very intelligent person and a professional and has been able to manage the transition very, very well. Mrs. Driedger: I don't have any doubt about that. Certainly, you know, had an opportunity over the years to, you know, hear her, you know, involved at various levels throughout, you know, Estimates and committees.

But certainly, it just–and this isn't so much about the deputy minister, but about the government's decision as to why they felt that–you know, if they're saying that healthy living is a significant aspect of health care, why would the NDP government then not choose to have a full -time dep uty minister, looking just at this? So it's more –my question isn't about the qualifications of the deputy or not; it's about the government's decision to do what they did. Mr. Rondeau: The one advantage we have is, in this ministry, we have a lot of very, very good people who are very passionate about what they do.

Whether it's the director of Healthy Living and Populations branch, whether it's the in motion staff, whether it's the chronic disease people, they're very passionate. And what we've chosen to d o is to be very, very lean on the administration, and put the money into the hands of people who are actually making the healthy living changes or supporting seniors or doing the seniors abuse programs, all that.

So, rather than put a lot of money in administration, we're being very, very frugal, as Dave would put it, and putting the money into the community, into organizations that are making a difference, and into the hands of people who are actually delivering the programs. And it's a conscious decision. I believe, if memory serves me correctly, well over 60 per cent of our budget goes directly as grants, and we want to keep on getting the programs and delivery out there. And whether it's the addictions programs, lots in grants to direct programs; healthy living, same thing; all the mental health, same thing.

We have lots of programs delivered by there. And so we're not focusing on a big bureaucracy; you're –we're focusing on creating partnerships out in the community and getting money out there and delivering real programs. Mrs. Driedger: Well, I guess we're probably going to just end up agreeing to disagree on this one, because it would just seem to me that if the government really was focused as sincerely as they say they are on healthy living that I would think that there could be a role to be played by a full -time deputy minister.

Because the challenges certainly are coming our way in terms of the demographics, in terms of the challenges that are out there, and we're not seeing the successes that we should be seeing in Manitoba in terms of addressing some of those challenges. And there are some significant areas where Manitoba could certainly be moving much further ahead, but if you're going to, you know, diminish, I think, the opportunity for a full -time deputy to get involved and really get aggressive in looking at some of these things–perhaps there would be an opportunity to move some of the outcomes so that we do see better successes.

I can't imagine a deputy having to change hats that many times in a day. It just does seem to be quite a lot, especially since I was also the critic for Culture, Heritage, Tourism, and Multiculturalism at one point, and I know, you know, certainly, how busy that can be and, certainly, in this area. So that is like wea ring, what, 10 different hats in a day, and that must be a lot of juggling for a deputy minister.

So I'm sure, you know, kudos to her, and she must walk on water some days in order to accomplish all of this too–wears sandals in order to try to keep a lot of bosses happy along the way. * (15:00) On page 6 of the Estimates book, I notice that administration and finance, the minister was indicating that he was lean on administration, and I have been looking across the book in terms of where we do see changes. And certainly with programing there might be, you know, a slight improvement in some funding or it was at least flat.

But the one area where there has been some increase in spending is in administration and finance. If we look at that first line on page 6, administration and finance, comparing estimates to estimates, we see an increase –not a huge one, but an increase. I wonder if the minister could give some indication of why administration and finance went up. Mr. Rondeau: I'd like to say a few of the successful successes that we've had, and I'd like to also compliment Cindy. She tells me–the deputy minister, she tells me she's full time and she's definitely full time.

But whether it's food where we're actually spearheading a lot of the food initiativ es throughout the government where, you know, we've been named

May 22, 2012 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1523 as one of the most sustainable healthy food programs in the world by the United Nations through the Northern Healthy Food Initiative. As far as the school policies where a number of years ago i t used to be french fries and Coke used to be No. 1 and 2, now they're not on the top 20 list.

Whether it's actually getting out there and raising money by selling vegetables rather than selling chocolates, whether it's activity –like I really am excited ab out how many schools are in motion and how many people are out there using the paths, using the recreational facilities, who are out there increasing activity. So those are all important, and I think those are all successes. But they have to be measured over time, and as you know it takes a while to change behaviour, and that's what this is all about.

As far as admin and finance, it's about 4 per cent of our budget for the admin and finance and the – moving from 638 to 646 was normal salary increases because the people just got their normal steps in their careers, and that's what that is. If you note, though, the actual at the end of administration operating 2011-12 was 57.862 million, and this year because of some trims it was $57.862 million overall, remained flat. And so we wish to continue to remain lean and we'll be creative. But again we're trying to push the money out to the organizations that are delivering the services. Mrs.

Driedger: And we'll certainly get into some of those questions because I note that I'm sure some of them are g oing to be struggling as well with the funding that they have been given. Can the minister explain the interrelationship between Healthy Living and Health? Like, how do the two departments coexist? How do they relate? Do they meet? Do they share informat ion? Is there a forum in place where the ministers talk or the deputy ministers talk? Like, how does it work or are you all just totally separate? Mr. Rondeau: I'm pleased to say that we're not in our own silos.

We do work together and there's many interdepartmental working committees. They work on various topics. We also have a regular committee meeting between my deputy and senior staff and Health deputy and senior Health staff. We're also part of the Healthy Child Committee of Cabinet, which deals with things on a global basis, such as FASD and activity and mental health and other issues. And then we also have some contracts with RHAs, et cetera, such as the Chronic Disease Prevention Initiative, et cetera. But we also work with RHAs on discussing the supports for seniors that are delivered through RHAs, et cetera.

We work with other health issues out there, tobacco cessation, things like that, and, of course, with two mental healths and spiritual health, they're intertwined between the two departments. And, of course, through addictions agencies, we deliver a lot of the addiction services. However, detox, et cetera, are delivered through RHAs because it's more a health issue. Mrs. Driedger: The minister indicated that there were many interdepartmental committees. Can he tell me what those committees are? Mr.

Rondeau : Sure: there's the Aging in Place Working Group; there's the RHAs health and senior health organizations; there's the addiction discussions that we often meet together and they meet on a regular basis; there's a whole thing on new food and nutrition, obesity, activity, Chronic Disease Prevention Initiative, and that's just with Health. Mrs. Driedger: Can the minister indicate –he also said that the staff in his department meet with the staff in Health. Is it on a regular basis or on a as - need-to basis? Mr. Rondeau: It depends on the issue.

Some issues would be on a regular basis, others on as needed or as a project basis. So a lot of it depends on what we're talking about. One of the other e xamples of interdepartmental committee would be the issue on bedbugs where we are working with other departments on that and engaged with other departments on that. Mrs. Driedger: Which department takes the lead on bedbugs? Mr. Rondeau: Us. Mrs. Driedger: Has a bedbug strategy been put in place? Mr. Rondeau : We have a strategy that we're working throughout departments with. It's not a public strategy right now; we're just working through it.

But one of the things I'm happy to say is it's got some compone nts. I'll go through some of the components. One is the bug and scrub, which has been very, very positive. What it is –we found out that people are not capable of preparing their suites. So there's a group of people who can get referred, they prepare the su ites and then put them back together again at the end. There's also the low–there's also a grant program so that non- profit groups can

1524 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 22, 2012 deal with it. There's also the paraphernalia. I don't know what the name of the project is. It's the paraphernalia, trying to get it out cheap to landlords or non- profits. And, of course, then there's the information where we're trying to put lots of information out into the hands of public so that they know how to deal with the issue. And so it is a departmental–interdepar tmental program. We are co -ordinating it and it's been very, very positive.

Actually, we're trying very, very hard to get the information out across jurisdictions, and that's an example of where it –this department becomes very important, because you have t he Rentalsman and the property branch and all those working together with us in Healthy Living which can move the bedbug issue quickly forward. Mrs. Driedger: Can the minister indicate why it wouldn't be a public document if there was a strategy in place and why that would not be readily available? Mr. Rondeau : We have our current plan on the website. It is public. The interesting

part is that most provinces don't lead the jurisdiction, and it's something that everyone has the problem. And so we're just trying to co- ordinate the solution to it. So what we're trying to do is bring together the health experts, the bedbug experts, the property people, all these things together to deal with the problem as a royal we, and so we're trying to do that. * (15:10) In most jurisdictions it's just left to either the city or it's just left. I think by co -ordinating it and providing some assistance to people who require it, it's a very positive thing.

So we've been bringing people together, we've –I've actually attended a couple of meetings on–with this group, and I think it's very positive that we've been proactive. We've moved it forward and moved it forward as a collective we. Mrs. Driedger: We don't seem to be hearing much about bedbugs lately. Can the minister indi cate whether or not the problem is as serious as it was a year ago, and it's just that we're not hearing about it, or can he actually indicate that there have been successes and actually the numbers are down in terms of percentage of bedbug infestation? Mr.

Rondeau: I'm pleased to let the member know that we actually have been providing lots of factual information on the website. We've got lots of news – pamphlets out there; we got posters out there. We actually have a phone number there, and I love the number. It's– yes, that's it– 1-855-3MBBUGS. And what's happening, is we're providing real information. So we get–we're getting rid of the urban myths; we're dealing with the problem with information. And I actually –I think it's interesting, because we've actual ly got some very, very innovative companies that have come to the fore.

The heat treatment ones –we have a heat treatment vans, where they heat up all the person’s possessions; we've got heat units that actually bring up the temperature for the whole buildi ng or for the whole apartment, which gets rid of the bedbugs. We actually have been really doing well on the prevention programs where we provide small grants to organizations to deal with them. And why we're – that's important, is because you don't want to get hold.

And I think what we've managed to do is provide the information to the public –real information; we've actually gone and had some of our companies actually take advantage to create these heat systems –don't ask me the names of the companies right now –and I think what we also did was we engaged the City of Winnipeg and other municipalities to say how do we deal with this issue effectively. And so, real information, bringing everyone together, having a few programs out there, providing the low-cost materials, has been very, very positive, and the small grant programs have been positive.

But I think the website –I was surprised that people haven't done that in other jurisdictions, whether there's actually one place to go for real information on how to deal with it. Mrs. Driedger: I know some people were wanting sites to be identified on a website and, you know, they were asking for public to be notified whenever there were bedbugs in a location. What was the discussion in the department about whether or not to do that? Mr.

Rondeau: We’re not in favour of a registry for bedbugs, because what happens is an organization might have bedbugs; their job then is to get rid of them, and if they get rid of them, you know, that's a positive thing. So what we focused on is getting the information out there, telling people how to treat them effectively, getting all the information out there so that people can take proactive action, and I would rather spend money on a low-income grants program or the supplies or the information and all this, r ather than on a registry which would be constantly changing.

And I wouldn't want to be the person who updated it and changed it and all –so what we're

May 22, 2012 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1525 dealing with, is we're saying this is an issue that everyone needs to have the information on and the resources and ability to take action on it, and the information to take action on it. We thought that was better as a proactive strategy rather than blaming our issues, because as a former teacher, as a former nurse, you know, anything like lice or bedbugs can happen, and then it's not a question of if they happen; it's a question of how you take appropriate action and move it forward so that you deal with the issue. Mrs.

Driedger: Does the minister happen to know right now, according to what's been reported t o him, how many sites there are right now in Manitoba infested with bedbugs? Mr. Rondeau : We don't keep a record or running tally. Again, what we do is provide the information, do the programs and support. I think it would be crazy trying to have a person hired to count and to keep track and then–no, we don't do that.

I personally believe it's probably more effective use of staff and resources to treat the issue and move it forward and educate, rather than running after a silly running tally of who’s got bedbugs or lice or other issues. Mrs. Driedger: Can the minister, then, indicate how he would measure success in, you know, that you're beating the problem or you're on top of it. If you're not tracking some of this, how do you know you're winning the battle? Mr.

Rondeau: A part of the way you learn whether you're winning the battle or not is if the program is growing by –the problem is growing by leaps and bounds, or whether people seem to have a handle on it. I've met with the Property Managers Association. They've commented very positively on our strategy and they've commented that they've got the issue under more control. And the other thing is is that, if you read the statistics around the world, there's some program – some parts in country –in other countries, that there's a huge problem and it's everywhere.

It seems to me as there's been less issues of it, less publicity on it, and I think that with what the property managers have said is that we have a strategy that seems to be working, that they'r e containing it, that they have the ability to move that forward expeditiously on theirs. And they actually made a very positive comment about the website and the fact that we're not blaming people, that we're just working co-operatively to address the sit uation and problem. They were very worried about something like a registry. What they wanted was they wanted the assistance to deal with the problem. Mrs.

Driedger: I–it would just seem to me, as the minister, in order to know that you're on top of the battle or winning the battle, that you might want to know on a, sort of a somewhat regular basis how many sites there are. Otherwise, the minister hasn't really given me any confidence that we're winning the battle because, how do you know? Like, I don't think he can say that with any deal of credibility if you aren't tracking this, somehow. Like, you must have some form of tracking in order to know that it's not overtaking any place. Just because we're not hearing about it doesn't mean it's not a problem.

People just aren't talking about it anymore because it's, sort of, like, old news. So, you know, there has to be a way for the minister to know whether or not he's winning the battle. Mr. Rondeau: One of the things we do keep control over is the amount of phone calls, emails, to the bug line. It gives an idea of the problem; it gives us idea of the location; it gives us an idea of the areas that we have to deal with. So we do keep some information on those. And it seems that the numbers are not going through the roof; they're pretty stable. Mrs. Driedger: How do you–how does the minister advertise the bug line?

Maybe they're–you're just not getting a lot of calls because nobody knows there is a bug line. Do you have an advertising program so that people know there's a number to call? Mr. Rondeau: What we've done, Mr. Chair, is we've worked with the City of Winnipeg so that, on the 311 line, they refer to that, so if they have issues on that. We've informed groups like the Social Planning Council where we'r e working on, to communicate the information. We're working with the landlord association to deal with it, and they're probably the most positive group there.

We've worked with the City–I can't say it–Taz–I don't know what Taz's title is, so, thank you. * (15:20) We also did some posters. I can send you a set if you wanted a set. You can't –[interjection] Send it to your office. We have posters. We have pamphlets. We did two flights of advertising and layout and print ads. That cost us about $64,492. We got some information in the seniors' and Aboriginal publications. So we tried to get the information out.

1526 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 22, 2012 Now what we're doing is giving more and more of the pamphlets out, posters out, and we're working with the City of Winnipeg also to get the –more information out. Mrs. Driedger: Is Manitoba Housing part of that advertising program? Mr. Rondeau : Although there's–actually we are in communication with Manitoba Housing and staff and all that. They have their own people that deal with bedbugs or any issues that they would have through normal pest control. [interjection] Yes, they have a group that goes and deals with their own buildings. Mrs.

Driedger: Okay, that was –I was heading in that direction too, because when Osborne House had their infestation, they couldn't get Manitoba Housing there. They had to raise the issue a number of times, and the infestation was so bad, but, you know, they were having to make the discoveries themselves, and Manitoba Housing wasn't very on the ball in terms of coming down and dealing with that situation. So I think there were a couple of times when they had to vacate the place, which I can't even imagine, you know, what that would be like.

But I guess I don't need to ask this minister, seeing as it's not his department, and I guess I would ask him if there is, within his department, the opportunity to have leadership over the whole government here, to direct, you know, proper attention to be paid to bedbugs, or is Manitoba Housing just totally on their own and then the minister deals with everything else? Mr. Rondeau : The education is for all people, whether it's non- profit, public housing, everyone. And so the information, we want to continue to get it out there because that's very, very important to know what people can and can't do.

The grant program would be appropriate for all third -party non -profit groups. So we do have a lot of groups that have made access to the grant program, and so we have worked through that. I believe we're the only province that has a low -cost grant program for daycares or for other groups, school –for daycares or non-profit groups, et cetera. And I think what the key is, is to have the information there. Now, we do communicate with Housing as well as other organizations that do deal with bedbugs and other 'infestrations.' We want to continue to do that, but we try to work co-operatively with other departments.

So when you asked the question on whether there's interdepartmental committees that deal with issues, this would be a interdepartmental committee that deals with an issue because it's not just Healthy Living; it's not just Housing; it's everyb ody. So it's residential tenancy, it's everybody deals with this because it's like anything else. You want to deal with the issue as broadly as possible with the proper education. So we want to tell everybody about the issue so they know the proper behaviour. Mrs. Driedger: I appreciate the information from the minister.

Now, on page 10 of the Estimates book and back to looking at position summaries, under executive support, I would note that there are five positions there. And can the minister tell us wh o those five people are in those positions and their titles? Mr. Rondeau: There's me; I'm the minister. There's Huguette Lacroix, who is the correspondence secretary; Janean McInnes, who is the admin secretary level 3; Esther Hiebert, who is my executive assistant; Marina Portz, admin secretary; and Sinda Cathcart, who's my special assistant. Mrs. Driedger: Can the minister tell us how long his EA and SA have been with him? Mr.

Rondeau : Yes. My executive assistant's been with me for a little while, November 2003 she started. [interjection] Very efficient. And Sinda Cathcart hasn't quite been with me as long as that; she was appointed February 2012 and is still recovering. Mrs. Driedger: And can the minister indicate who his SA was prior to that? Mr. Rondeau : Tiffany Creaghe -Harder was my previous SA. To save you the next question, she is now working with Minister Chief and also transferred over to the new Children and Youth Opportunities when that ministry was formed. So we saved you a question. Mrs.

Driedger: Not quite; what role does she have in the new ministry's office? Mr. Rondeau : When she moved over she was special assistant. I assume she's there, but you'll have to confirm that with Mr. Chief. Mrs. Driedger: Can the minister indicate whether there are any project managers in Healthy Living? I would note that in the Department of Health they now have six political staff, and a number of them have morphed into these positions cal led

May 22, 2012 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1527 project managers. Can the minister indicate whether he has any political staff that are in the position of project manager? Mr. Rondeau : The answer is there's no political staff who are project managers. But I'd like to say the whole department does r un a lot of projects and manages a lot of projects, but as civil service. Mrs. Driedger: Can the minister indicate there have been any salaries frozen in his department over the past year? An Honourable Member: Besides mine? Mrs. Driedger: Besides yours. And in the ongoing year are there any frozen salaries? Mr.

Rondeau: The short answer is no, but the longer answer is that there was a–the normal collective bargaining went through, and we were part of the normal collective bargaining with all the member s. The only person who seems to take a salary freeze or deduction was myself, and that was part of the system. Mrs. Driedger: Can the minister tell us or indicate the total number of staff in his department? Mr. Rondeau: I am told it's 167.91, and please don't ask why .91. I think it's a collection of part-times and different pieces. Mrs.

Driedger: And can the minister indicate what the vacancy rate is within his department, and if that's specifically determined as a cost -saving measure? Mr. Rondeau : Can we get that to you, because I don't think they have it right at the tips of their fingers? Mrs. Driedger: Certainly. Mr. Rondeau : They'll get you the vacancy rate as exists, okay? Mrs. Driedger: And the next question is: Is there any direction from the minister to his department towards, you know, saving some money by setting a certain vacancy rate and keeping one in place? * (15:30) Mr. Rondeau: We always look forward to savings.

We try to run a very, very efficient ship, and –but I have not specifically set a specific target for vacancy management. Mrs. Driedger: Can the minister indicate whether or not all positions hired within his department have been through competition, or have some of them been appointments? Mr. Rondeau: Of the competitions, there was seven open competitions, no closed competitions, no internal competitions, for a total of seven competitions.

As far as direct appointments: there's one acting status; no lateral transfers; there's two terms that have been converted to regular; three temporary appointments; one order -in-council; and direct appointments, there's been two, that's more like employment equity and stuff like that, for a total of nine–sorry. Mrs. Driedger: Can the minister indicate whether or not contracts are awarded directly, or if contracts are tendered? Mr. Rondeau : The vast majority of contracts are tendered. If not, they're the sole supplier, and then they're posted as per normal policy. Mrs.

Driedger: Is there a certain dollar value that the department sets where then you have to tender a project? Mr. Rondeau : Generally, when something's over $5,000 we tender it. Sometimes it's under $5,000; we still tender it, and then there's some sole -sourced contracts, depending on expertise, et cetera. Mrs. Driedger: Can the minister indicate whether or not there was any t ravel by the Premier (Mr. Selinger), or a delegation led by the Premier, that was paid for by his department? Mr. Rondeau: No. Mrs.

Driedger: Can the minister indicate the total number of hours of overtime worked by his staff in last year's flood? Mr. R ondeau: It would be recorded centrally by Finance. I don't have that. If that could be part of the package, that would be amiable; we'd send it to you with the rest of the package. Mrs.

Driedger: Well, if the minister is willing to do that, I would be int erested in the total number of hours of overtime worked by staff, the dollar value of the overtime worked by staff, and the number of temporary or contract staff hired by the department in relationship to the flood, and the dollar value of bills submitted by his department for payment to the Department of Finance in relation to the 2011 flood, broken out by month for the period ending March 31st, 2012, and a list of any projects or

1528 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 22, 2012 initiatives the department had to defer as a result of the 2011 flood –if he could provide me all of those answers related to the flood, that would be great. Mr. Rondeau: I believe, Mr. Chair, that the –there's going to be a central response to this through Finance on all the flood questions, so I understand that Finance is compilin g the costs, and that would be able to be provided to the member. Mrs. Driedger: I'm just curious; I guess if we were looking at overtime work by the staff, that would be, am I assuming correctly, job related?

That they had to–because of Healthy Living or within that department, they were doing their job, it wasn't just going out and volunteering and helping. It was actually doing their job and that's why they were being paid overtime? Mr. Rondeau : My officials tell me that it would have to be job related. We don't believe there's any costs there, but we'll dig for it and see. But it would have to be related and that's consumer affairs, seniors, addictions, mental health–I don't see it, but we will gather it and it will be part of the Finance submission about flood costs to the opposition. Mrs.

Driedger: Can the minister indicate and he could, you know, verify, or not, my number crunching, can he indicate that if we break out healthy living and seniors, that the total amount of the budget for those two areas is around $45 million? Is that an accurate number? Mr. Rondeau: On page 7, there's a pie chart which shows that the healthy living component of the budget is about 40 per cent of the $57.9 million; the seniors is about 3 per cent; the consumer corporate affairs is about 22 per cent; Addictions Foundation of Manitoba is 34 per cent, and admin and finance is about 1 per cent. Mrs.

Driedger: Considering the Health budget is so huge and over $5 billion, $45 million doesn't seem to be a lot to spend on prevention. Can the minister tell us why? Mr. Rondeau: Basically because we didn't want to sit there in 2003- 2004, when we were the first Healthy Living ministry, we had a decision whether we were going to take a certain chunk of each budget and say, we are the prevention budget. I think it was a wise decision in hindsight and, currently, that we aren't the prevention department – in other words, own all prevention. What we do is we co -ordinate some prevention initiatives.

We co-ordinate things like food, injury prev ention and other things, but we're not focused just on prevention. So an example is Health has a prevention component to it, and so they have people who are working on injuries, falls prevention and activity and all the rest, and chronic disease prevention, in addition to what we do. * (15:40) If you look at Education, they have a prevention component; if you look at Healthy Child, they have a prevention component; if you look at –so what we have is we have prevention throughout government, so we're involved in those things but we don't have it directly in our budget.

And I think that’s better because if we were just the prevention department, then it wouldn't be integrated in everything we do. So, an example is activity; one of the things was the Healthy Kids, Healthy Futures Task Force said that we needed a K to 12 phys ed every day. And, moving on that, well, that's prevention, but it wasn't in this budget; it's in the Education budget.

So I think, by looking at it and saying, we're not just prevention; we're co -ordinating a lot of initiatives, but it's throughout government, is much more appropriate because then you're–it's not saying that everyone–we want to make sure that everyone says that there's a role in prevention regardless of what area you're in. Mrs. Driedger: Can the minister tell us –and I'm on page 14–I would note that there's about four areas in terms of grant

summary where there's no change at all. It's flat in terms of spending for Mental Health and Spiritual Health, Tobacco Control, Seniors and Healthy Aging, and Addictions Foundation. I would note that all of those which are pretty significant in terms of the programming and the needs. Can the minister indicate why they wouldn't have been given a bump up, and why they're being kept flat? Mr. Rondeau: One of the things we have done this year is, without additional monies, we've introduced new programs, new initiatives like tobacco. Tobacco–we've now done a create and rate, in addition to the rate and view program.

The rate and review progr am used to be, young students would watch the 10 best commercials and rate them and review them. It's been around for 10 years. So, this year, what we did was we worked with schools to actually develop their own ads and commercials. That didn't cost a lot of money. It's just we moved it forward.

May 22, 2012 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1529 The Students Working Against Tobacco, SWAT teams, we've expanded by 20 schools this year, and I think the staff have been very dedicated and got kids working with kids. But there's other programs, like, we've expanded the drug formulary, in Health, on tobacco reduction, but that's, again, in Pharmacare, not in this department. It sort of goes with the last comment. So I think there's certain areas that we have moved forward on. On the Healthy Living and Populations, we'll continue to move forward on food.

You–I would hope that you ask–the Minister of Northern Affairs (Mr. Robinson) is working on the healthy food initiative. I understand we have about 800 to 900 gardens in northern Manitoba this year. We might hit a thousand; that's very positive. We're working with companies on–sorry –individuals on how to have healthier food. That's really the base of it, but we wouldn't have a ton of that in our budget. We would facilitate that; we'd work with others on it. It goes with the basic premise.

We didn't want to say take 2 per cent of the Health budget or 5 per cent of the Health budget or this of the Education budget. What we wanted to do was have everyone focus on prevention in their areas, and us co-ordinate more of it. And so that goes with that. As far as the addictions budget, I think what's happened is that we took a budget of about, just around $10 million in 1999 and moved it to be about 27, $28 million this year, overall, and I think that's moved it forward quite expeditiously. We've moved forward on other areas.

So, although there's some programs, we've been able to move some programs forward very 'expeditially', very –with fiscal management and prudence. And I think we still have issues where we're moving forward very quickly, i.e., seniors abuse. We've got a 24 -hour, 7- day line. We've got contracts with Age and Opportunity. We've got the safe suites program now. We're working with the federal government on getting the communications out there. So I thin k it's where you want to work with multiple partners and different groups.

We don't have the whole solution and all the prevention here in our budget, and we don't want it all in our budget. What we want to do is work with others. Mrs. Driedger: On page 21, under salaries, and then under administrative support , it shows a change last year being $178,000 and this year, $189,000. Can the minister indicate administrative support–is that for which particular staff in his office, or is it in the deputy's office? Mr. Rondeau : That would be the regular salary ‘increasements’ for the support staff, not the political staff. Mrs.

Driedger: Can the minister tell us where his deputy minister actually has her office? Mr. Rondeau: Room 112, it's a very nice office. Mrs. Driedger: And would it be co- located with Culture, Heritage and Tourism? Mr. Rondeau: Yes. Mrs. Driedger: Page 24, can the minister indicate who the chair is for Healthy Child Committee of Cabinet? Mr. Rondeau : It used to be myself when I was Seniors, Healthy Living, et cetera.

Now it's the Minister Kevin Chief because we thought it was –I guess the government thought it was more appropriate to have him there because of the – Children and Youth Opportunities was a focus and because the deputy use d to be the vice -chair, or responsible to the Healthy Child Committee of Cabinet and so it made sense to leave it in that ministry. Mrs. Driedger: And is the minister still on that committee? Yes? Mr. Rondeau: Yes. Mrs. Driedger: Can the minister indicate how often that committee meets? Mr. Rondeau: I understand the ministers meet about five times a year, every two months.

I think last year we met six times–that's from memory–but five or six times a year, about every two months. However, last year, I think we put in an extra planning meeting. Mrs. Driedger: Can the minister tell us how long the meetings lasts? Mr. Rondeau: Some of them lasted all morning, like four or five hours. Some last a shorter time, two or three hours. Mrs. Driedger: Can the ministe r indicate whether there is a Youth Advisory Council that reports up to him? Mr. Rondeau: No, there isn't. I do not have a Youth Advisory Council in this portfolio.

1530 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 22, 2012 Mrs. Driedger: Was there a Youth Advisory Council in 2010- 11? It's in the org chart from the annual report. Mr. Rondeau: There was in the former department, yes. Mrs. Driedger: I understand the minister was at a Youth Advisory Council meeting earlier this month. Can he indicate what type of a meeting that was? Mr. Rondeau : I don't want to ma ke an error on exactly what the topic was. It was a group of high school students from around the province that I went and spoke to. I don't know exactly the name of the actual topic.

So I'll put that in the package because I know it was a bunch of high sc hool students from around the province talking about issues, but I can't remember the title off by hand. Mrs. Driedger: Was this something that the government set up, or was it something that the school set up and invited the minister and the Minister of Health (Ms. Oswald) to attend? * (15:50) Mr. Rondeau: I don't know who exactly organized it. I'll get that into the package of material too. The trouble is is you go to about 20 to 30 events a week and, therefore, you don't remember off by hand exactly who organized it exactly, the title.

So I'll get that, who organized it and I'll get the title of the event. Mrs. Driedger: Can the minister indicate whether it was a partisan event or whether it was a–more a school- related event that would have been non - partisan? Mr. Rondeau : I do know that in any of my discussions, if I'm representing my ministry I do it as very non -partisan. I try to be very blunt and very open with my–the people who are listening, and what we try to do is provide information or facts. W hat I would do is try to provide information or facts.

I don't try to push one agenda versus the other, and I also go back–all the way back to Linda McIntosh, who was my predecessor, who also had the same reputation, where she just represented government, and I think we do that very much. Mrs. Driedger: I know I certainly do that. Whenever I'm meeting with any youth, I always keep it non -partisan.

So I have to say I was a little bit surprised when some information came to me indicating that within that group, that this minister actually said to the Minister of Health, I'm sure you want to dig your nails into your critic's neck and strangle her, and that was said in front of a group, that I'm sure the critic drives you crazy.

Does the minister recall saying that then, which is a very partisan comment, which bothered me, I have to say, you know, when, you know, a comment is made to very impressionable high school kids, and he's saying to the Minister of Health, I bet you can hardly wait–or how can you prevent yourself from, you know, digging your nails in your critic's neck and wanting to strangle her? Why would that kind of a conversation happen? Mr. Rondeau : I don't remember the particular conversation.

I do remember one of my discussions was talking about the whole difference between some legislatures which actually work on a more amiable situation –i.e., the Northwest Territories. et cetera–and us who have an advisory–where we try to sort of challenge each other and work in public on question period, where it looks like adversaries going at each other. I think that it would be much more appropriate if we were more civil on both sides, and I have often said that both publicly in front of kids, in front of adults, et cetera.

I have also said that we have a p rocess by which we can actually have written questions, which I think we're starting to finally do, where we actually have written questions. It's part of the parliamentary privilege and process, where what we do is, instead of saying gotcha, we actually a sk real questions, get real responses. And I think that would be very nice in the system if we started doing that. Why?

It's because we're trying often to do gotchas, and if you've ever watched question period either federally or provincially in any of our systems, you look at the Northwest Territories model of government, it's very civil. It's very appropriate, and I think it looks much more distinguished versus our question period on both sides of the House. And, if you look at it from the last 30 years, if you read Hansard it looks –as a kid, you look at it and it looks bad on both sides of the House, and I think that anything we did to make it more civil would be positive.

And I look at –if you've ever wanted to watch the parliamentary channel and see how that they behave or us or anything else, I think it looks–sometimes I look and say, how would a person view that if they're looking in the visitor's gallery and see what we're doing, and I keep on getting comments from everyone in my schools that come here that it isn't appropriate and it would be nice to

May 22, 2012 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1531 clean it all up. And I'm sure the member opposite agrees because what happens is that we're trying to do gotcha versus look professional. Mrs. Driedger: And I don't disagree with the minister at all because I think there is a higher purpose to being here, and I think a lot of us are here because we want to make a difference. That's why, I guess, with this youth group with these students, I was somewhat, w ell, more than somewhat, I was quite shocked to hear that this conversation happened between this minister and the Minister of Health (Ms.

Oswald), because I don't think that furthers this cause of–especially with impressionable young kids. And speaking of young kids– An Honourable Member: Can I respond to the question? Mrs. Driedger: Sure. Mr. Rondeau: Well, I agree with you, and if there's apology, I can give you an apology if something was inappropriate. The other thing is I truly believe that as a nurse, you'd make a heck of a lot more money as a nurse than you would as an MLA with less stress and frustration–sorry.

So I do believe on both sides of the House –have a role and responsibility, and I do appreciate the critic's role because it's a tough one. And I'll tell you, truthfully, if we could do anything that would clean up the question period to make

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	40-1-37b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	40th 1st hansardpdf 37b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	73d271e06b0d7b1d15b84e2d57f4b44e2a9831d0

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