March 15, 1976 ALBERTA HANSARD 163 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ALBERTA Title: Monday, March 15, 1976 2:30 p.m. [The House met at 2:30 p.m.] PRAYERS [Mr. Speaker in the Chair] head: INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS MR. KROEGER: Mr. Speaker, in the public gallery from the Brownfield School, located north of Corona­ tion, we have a Grade 9 class, accompanied by their teacher, Mrs. Bargholz and her husband, as well as parents, Mr. and Mrs. Gerald Cole, and Mr. and Mrs. Karl Losing. Would you stand, please, and be recognized? MR. CRAWFORD: Mr.

Speaker, I would like to introduce two classes of schoolchildren but, with your leave, I'll do them consecutively rather than jointly. The first one is Grades 5 and 6 from the Parkallen Elementary School, from the constituency of Edmonton Parkallen, Mr. Speaker. These 40 students have been touring the building and were very enthusiastic about it. They are in the public gallery and I would ask them to rise and be recognized by the House. If I might, the other students, 47 in number, are from St. Martin Junior High School. I should mention that both the hon. Mr.

Getty's constituency and my own are represented by these students. They have also been touring the building, Mr. Speaker, and being a little bit older are perhaps taking an even greater interest in the political happenings of the House this afternoon. I would ask them also to rise and be recognized. head: TABLING RETURNS AND REPORTS MR. LEITCH: Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the annual report of the Treasury Department, and the annual reports for The Public Service Management Pension Act, The M.L.A. Pension Act, The Local Authorities Pension Act, and The Public Service Pension Act. In addition, Mr.

Speaker, I wish to table a return to question no. 216. MR. MINIELY: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to table the annual report for the year ended June 30, 1975 for the Alberta Health Care Insurance Commission. MR. FARRAN: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to file copies of a letter that has been sent by telegram today to the Hon. Ron Basford, the federal Minister of Justice, protesting the laws in the legal system which per­ mitted bail for men awaiting trial for such serious charges as murder and attempted murder, arising from the unfortunate incident which took place in Calgary this weekend. MR. HYNDMAN: Mr.

Speaker, I'd like to file two copies of a

summary of a report, The Canadian Energy Situation: Public Perceptions in Ontario and Quebec. head: MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS MR. SPEAKER: Although this is not a ministerial statement, hon. members might wish me to advert to the fact that today is the 70th anniversary of the First Session of the First Legislature of Alberta, which opened in the Thistle Rink on Thursday, March 15, 1906. I think I could safely add that the rink is gone, and so are most of the thistles. head: ORAL QUESTION PERIOD AEC Shareholders Lists MR. CLARK: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to direct my first question to the Attorney General.

It deals with The Companies Act, primarily that portion that makes it mandatory for an Alberta company to keep a list of shareholders available in its office so that sharehol­ ders may view the list. My question to the Attorney General is: has he had complaints from individuals who have tried to see the list of shareholders of the Alberta Energy Company, by reason of the fact that the list of shareholders is not available at the Alberta Energy Company offices? MR. FOSTER: Mr. Speaker, I have not had any such complaint or comment to my office.

However perhaps my colleague, the Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs, may be able to expand on that. MR. HARLE: Mr. Speaker, I also have had no complaints. MR. CLARK: Mr. Speaker, then I'd like to direct a question to either one of the hon. ministers.

Would the hon. ministers give a commitment to the Assembly to check into the fact that lists of the shareholders are not available either at the Alberta Energy Company's offices or at the offices of National Trust in Edmonton, and that shareholders are being told they must go to the computer bank in Toronto to get a list of the shareholders of the Alberta Energy Company? My question to the ministers specifically is: in compliance with Sections 56 and 57 of The Companies Act, will the government ascertain if shareholders can see the list?

If they can't, will the government give instructions to the Alberta Energy Company to see that they are complying with The Companies Act of Alberta? MR. HARLE: Mr. Speaker, I will certainly make inquiries. MR. R. SPEAKER: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary to the minister. It is my understanding with regard to this act that there are no exceptions. The names of all shareholders must be made public. Is that

interpretation clear?

164 ALBERTA HANSARD March 15, 1976 MR. HARLE: Mr. Speaker, I hesitate to give an opinion on the

interpretation of the act at present. AEC Policy MR. CLARK: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to direct my second question to the Minister of Energy and Natural Resources. It really flows from the question asked by the Member for Calgary Buffalo in the House on Friday and from an advertisement that appeared in The Calgary Herald on March 8, dealing with an individual who is "thoroughly familiar with gas field equipment to be totally responsible for purchasing materials required" for the. Suffield gas block. The advertisement was placed by the Alberta Energy Company.

My question to the minister is: is the Alberta Energy Company going to become involved in drilling or production — doing it themselves — in the Suffield Block? MR. GETTY: Mr. Speaker, there are obviously two questions. I certainly hope the Alberta Energy Company is involved in production. We would be very disappointed if the Suffield Block wasn't able to produce. But the question really — if I understood the hon. Member for Calgary Buffalo, and it's been followed up by the hon.

Leader of the Opposition today — is whether the Alberta Energy Company was going to become engaged in the drilling business itself, as a drilling company. Mr. Speaker, as I intimated on Friday, I'd be very disappointed and surprised if that happened. The facts bear me out, Mr. Speaker. The Alberta Energy Company has not participated — has no intention of participating — in the drilling business by being a drilling company. They have not bought any drilling equipment. They are not buying any drilling equipment.

They are tendering bids for drilling and, as a matter of fact, have awarded two contracts to private enterprise. They are not buying service rig equipment. Obviously, Mr. Speaker, should the drilling result in a producing well, the Alberta Energy Company would have to purchase the wellhead equipment to control the production. The hon. Leader of the Opposition is drawing an incorrect assumption from the advertisement he has just quoted. The only other feature of the Energy Company drilling that may interest the hon. members is that, as of now, they are exercising a preference order.

First preference in tendered contracts is being given to Alberta companies, second preference to Cana­ dians, and third to others. MR. CLARK: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question to the minister in light of his answer. Is the minister in a position to indicate to the Assembly whether the Alberta Energy Company has made a decision to take people on its staff to do its own production work, or in fact will the Alberta Energy Company farm that out on some sort of basis? MR. GETTY: Mr. Speaker, inasmuch as they do not have any production right now, I assume they haven't made that decision.

I am not aware whether they have decided to have it farmed out, or to handle it themselves. MR. CLARK: One further supplementary, Mr. Speak­ er, to the minister. Is it still the policy of the Government of Alberta that in fact the Alberta Energy Company will not be involved in drilling, nor will it be involved in its own producing? I say "own producing", from the standpoint of actually taking on people and building up a group on the staff of the Energy Company to be responsible for the production of the wells. MR. GETTY: Mr. Speaker, the hon. member again has brought two different principles together.

One has to do with the drilling, and I trust that I've answered that already for the hon. member. The second is production. There was never any expression of principle or policy on my behalf or, as I recall, by the government whether the company would not in fact operate their wells, should they come up with production. That has not been a policy position we've taken. MR. NOTLEY: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question to the hon. minister. Will the same yard­ stick, or the same conditions, apply to both shallow and deeper drilled wells? MR.

GETTY: They'll treat all their wells the same, but I'm not sure which of the policies he's referring to, for shallow and deep wells, Mr. Speaker. MR. NOTLEY: Mr. Speaker, I'm referring to the development, as opposed to the drilling. I understand the drilling will be contracted out. But will there be the same arrangements for the development, or will there be in fact an arrangement entered into between the Alberta Energy Company and another private company for the deeper drilled wells? MR. GETTY: Mr.

Speaker, the Alberta Energy Company did entertain what we referred to as "farm out" proposals, and they have entered into an agreement in one of those, which would involve a third party doing all the exploration of deeper rights. In the course of drilling to explore the deeper rights, at no cost to the Energy Company they will naturally drill through the shallow rights. Nevertheless, despite that agreement, the company still will not operate drilling rigs any differently for shallow or deeper rights. Mobile-Home Park — Airdrie MR. LITTLE: Mr.

Speaker, I would direct this question to the Minister of Housing and Public Works. Would the minister please advise the Legislature of the present status of the proposed mobile-home park at Airdrie, Alberta? MR. YURKO: Mr. Speaker, as I'm sure all House members understand, it takes considerable effort to put together a mobile-home subdivision of the extent being planned for Airdrie. I should indicate that negotiations in a number of areas are going forward with the town and the regional planning commission. Thus far no major hurdles have been encountered, certainly none that can't be overcome.

The one question before us at this time is associated with the

March 15, 1976 ALBERTA HANSARD 165 school situation in the area, but that is being looked at from a number of points of view. MR. LITTLE: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary to the minister. Will the arrangements for schooling this large influx of students, brought in by the creation of this park, impose an extra tax burden on the residents of that particular area? MR. YURKO: Mr. Speaker, I'm sure I can't answer that question specifically at this time. Certainly the intent is not to burden the existing residents of the community with the requirements of the new community.

In all cases, financing will be attempted in such a way that this burden is not unduly excessive, if at all, on the existing residents. Howev­ er, the nature of the question as directed toward the provision of school facilities might better be directed toward the Minister of Education. ASH/Deerhome MR. R. SPEAKER: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Social Services and Community Health. Has the minister received the report from the Parents for Progress with regard to their recent visit to the Alberta School Hospital, Red Deer? MISS HUNLEY: Not to my knowledge, Mr. Speaker.

If this occurred fairly recently, I have not received it. MR. R. SPEAKER: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary to the minister. What steps have been taken by the minister to integrate the children of the Alberta School Hospital into the community? MISS HUNLEY: I personally do not take the steps, but it has been a policy of this government that, as children can be moved into the community and as space is provided, it has done so. I don't have at my fingertips the actual number of those who have been moved into the community, but I have had the pleasure of meeting some. I must say, Mr.

Speaker, it is indeed a very great pleasure when I do meet them. MR. R. SPEAKER: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary to the minister. Has the minister or her department received the reported allegation, "Although certain buildings had been condemned by the department of health for several years due to bacteria embedment, they are still being utilized to house residents." Has the minister heard that report, and is that an accurate report at this time? MISS HUNLEY: I have not heard that report, Mr. Speaker.

I know that one of the reasons we made the decision to pour, I think, about $10 million into ASH/Deerhome was that we realized it had been neglected for so long and it desperately needed renovation and improvement. I can say that a lot of this has been accomplished, but there is more to do. MR. R. SPEAKER: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary to the minister. Would the minister check the concern with regard to this recent allegation of bacteria embedment, and report to the Legislature? MISS HUNLEY: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I will when I receive it.

I see the hon. member is referring to a news release, and sometimes those are most irresponsible. Energy Conservation MR. NOTLEY: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to direct this question to the hon. Minister of Housing and Public Works. The story comes from a news release over the ACN. I'm not sure whether it's irresponsible or not. MR. SPEAKER: Possibly this might be a good time for us to consider again a basic rule of the question period, which is that questions should be asked directly rather than by way of checking news releases, or rumours, or anything of that kind. MR. NOTLEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In view of the savings in both electrical energy and natural gas — I believe 27 per cent in the case of electrical energy and 33 per cent as a result of a pilot project in the J.J. Bowlen Building in Alberta — what specific directives have gone out to conserve energy in other public buildings in the province of Alberta? MR. YURKO: Mr. Speaker, the directive was fairly obvious. Over a period of time the Department of Public Works will be working with the Department of Government Services to use the computer models to determine the appropriate manner in which existing buildings can be run to conserve energy.

As I indicated, each particular building has to be modelled on the computer with respect to its idiosyncrasies. This does take some time but the program between the two departments is, and will be, continuing immediately. MR. NOTLEY: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question to the hon. minister. Has the government any statistics on what the potential saving to the province would be, were the government to reach its quoted target of a 20 per cent reduction in energy consumption in our provincial buildings? MR. YURKO: Mr.

Speaker, the cost of energy is so variable these days that it's very difficult to arrive at a definitive figure at any particular time. But in fact the savings are substantive. I did see some figures on one particular building, but I haven't got the figures before me, nor am I in any position at this time to quote what the overall figures may be. MR. NOTLEY: A supplementary question to the hon. minister. Does the government at this stage have any proposals to encourage energy conservation in private buildings and homes in the province? MR. YURKO: Well, Mr.

Speaker, my responsibilities are associated with the Department of Housing and Public Works. At this time we are concentrating on efficiency within government. Whether or not any attempt will be made to require the imposition of greater efficiency in the private sector is a matter that will be considered, I'm sure, by government in the future.

166 ALBERTA HANSARD March 15, 1976 MR. NOTLEY: Mr. Speaker, I'll direct a final supple­ mentary question to the hon. Premier. In light of the minister's answer, is the government giving any consideration at this stage to an overall policy of energy conservation in the province of Alberta? Will any announcement be forthcoming this year? MR. LOUGHEED: Mr. Speaker, I think the govern­ ment's general view about this subject is that, insofar as any private operation or private residence is concerned, that should be clearly the responsibility of individual citizens.

Our responsibility should be in the area of the operations of the provincial government. Perhaps the Minister of Energy and Natural Resources might like to comment. MR. GETTY: Mr. Speaker, the federal government has introduced a program of energy conservation which, through the Department of Energy and Natural Resources in our province, we will be attempting to co-ordinate with. The government has had, for many, many years, an energy resources conservation pro­ gram. As the hon. members know, we have a board in that regard. The board had a hearing and made a report on the efficient use of energy resources.

There have been moves in that regard within our province, for instance converting power production from natural gas to coal. So the government's emphasis has been mainly in those areas. However, there will be additional co-ordination with the federal govern­ ment on their energy conservation program. I might say, Mr.

Speaker, that one of the things we should all be concerned with is that it would probably be asking a lot of Albertans if they were to place themselves in a position of doing without a resource which they have in abundance while other people, who are buying that resource, are using it wastefully or inefficiently in other parts of Canada. Speed Limit Tolerance MR. MANDEVILLE: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the hon. Solicitor General. Has the minister sent a directive to the provincial police inspectors, or RCMP, to observe no longer the five mile an hour speed limit tolerance when issuing speeding tickets? MR.

FARRAN: Mr. Speaker, I hope that the police observe all speed limits. The so-called, unwritten five mile an hour tolerance never existed as a right. Naturally, the police sometimes exercise discretion, in the interests of getting a conviction, as to how much they allow someone to exceed the speed limit before charging them. The unfortunate practice of assuming that there is always, as a right, an unwritten tolerance of a five mile an hour excess over the speed limit, has grown in the province. This is not so. Nobody in the province can rely on it. MR. TAYLOR: A supplementary to the hon. minister.

Could not the speedometer of the driver, or even of the police, be up to three miles out? MR. FARRAN: That is a hypothetical question, Mr. Speaker. I wouldn't know whether it's standard practice for instruments to be out as much as three miles an hour. Mr. Speaker, all I'm saying is, no Albertans should think they have a tolerance of five miles an hour over the posted speed limit, as a right. MR. MANDEVILLE: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. Has this directive gone out from the Solicitor General's office to our police officers in the province? MR. NOTLEY: Obey the letter of the law. MR.

FARRAN: There's no need for a directive. It's well understood from our meetings, Mr. Speaker, that there is no right to a five mile an hour tolerance. ACCESS Magazine MR. YOUNG: Mr. Speaker, I believe my question is to the Minister of Education. It concerns ACCESS magazine, the spring 1976 issue of which arrived — at least on my desk — this past weekend. Mr. Speaker, I'm wondering if the minister could outline the editorial policy for the magazine. MR. SPEAKER: A question of general policy is perhaps beyond the scope of the question period.

The hon. minister will know better than the Chair how long such a statement might be and whether it would be appropriate for the question period, for the Order Paper, or for a ministerial announcement. MR. KOZIAK: Mr. Speaker, I believe I can answer, in a fashion, very quickly. Under the authority of the act which creates ACCESS, a great deal of independence is given to the board of directors. The board of directors of that authority, in fact, sets the policy. MR. YOUNG: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker.

Does the policy directive to the communications corporation restrict it to the media of radio and television, or does it also extend to the medium of print? MR. KOZIAK: Mr. Speaker, the act is available in the statute books for all to read. I don't want to be giving a legal opinion on the powers available to that corporation under that act. Perhaps the hon. member would like to seek legal opinion of his own and make that determination. MR. YOUNG: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. What I'm seeking is not an

interpretation of the statute, Mr. Speaker, but the precise policy directive. To put it in a nutshell, is it the understanding of the minister that the communications corporation would be printing a magazine for school or for school staff purposes? MR. KOZIAK: Mr. Speaker, that information can be obtained from the chairman of the board of directors.

However, it would be useful to state at this point that the printed word adds to what is produced by the corporation, in that the corporation's efforts in the area of broadcasting, under CKUA, in the area of educational production of materials, become that much more useful to the educational institutions if they know what is available. The printed word, then, becomes very useful as a catalogue and as a form of

March 15, 1976 ALBERTA HANSARD 167 announcement of materials that are available in other types of media. MR. YOUNG: A final supplementary if I may, Mr. Speaker. My concern and the question I would like the minister to check is: with the small proportion of the magazine which seems to relate to what in fact would be coming over the airways by means of either television or radio receivers, I would ask, since the policy is available from the president of the corpora­ tion, if perhaps the minister could get it and relay it to the House. MR. KOZIAK: I'm sure that can be obtained.

The other alternative the hon. member may wish to pursue is, perhaps, study in the Committee of Supply. Bail Eligibility MR. TAYLOR: My question is to the hon. Solicitor General. Is the setting of bail or no bail for serious offences under the Criminal Code solely at the discre­ tion of the judge? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member is clearly asking for a legal opinion. I hesitate to interrupt, but perhaps the information could be obtained in another way. MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, may I set the question out in a different way?

Is the letter to Ottawa that you tabled today asking that criteria for bail or no bail be set out in the law? MR. FARRAN: Mr. Speaker, perhaps I should refer this question to the Attorney General, who is more expert in matters of law than I am. AN. HON. MEMBER: That's debatable. AN. HON. MEMBER: That's a debatable motion. MR. FOSTER: Mr. Speaker, I have read the Solicitor General's letter.

I think he is now expressing the very sincere regret of both himself and his colleagues as to what occurred in Calgary, and is calling upon the federal Minister of Justice to examine the bail provi­ sions of the Criminal Code, the discretion available to a judge in determining whether an accused person is eligible for bail, and indeed examining the whole question of eligibility for bail. MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, would the hon. Attorney General go one step further and definitely request that there be no bail for charges like murder and attempted murder? MR. FOSTER: Mr.

Speaker, I have not discussed the matter of the bail provisions with the federal Attorney General, but I have no doubt that we will be doing so shortly at our meeting in Vancouver. Personally I would not want to take the position the hon. member has put to the House on the matter of bail, without being very clear as to the criteria which should be considered by the court. Personally, I find it very difficult to say that all persons charged with offences shall be presumed guilty and therefore held in custody. The discretion now rests with the judge.

No doubt there are many matters which can be taken in hand by the federal government to tighten up bail in this country. But I emphasize that it is a federal jurisdiction under the Criminal Code. It is of considerable concern to my colleagues and myself, and we'll be discussing it with the federal Attorney General and the federal Solicitor General. But I don't think I should go on record on behalf of the Government of Alberta — indeed I cannot — on the matter of whether you should grant bail, for example, in a murder case. MR. TAYLOR: One further supplementary.

I can well understand that you wouldn't want to make an offhand decision. But is not the type of criminal code we have now wishy-washy in regard to bail because provinces would not make definite recommendations? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member has made a representation which no doubt has been duly noted. Crime Compensation MR. GHITTER: Mr. Speaker, I have a supplementary on that matter. I'm wondering if the hon.

Attorney General could advise the Legislature whether any form of program or assistance is available to citizens who find their homes in disarray and severely damaged by the criminal acts of other individuals in our society? MR. FOSTER: Yes, Mr. Speaker. In Alberta we have a provision to compensate the victims of crimes, particularly violent crimes. That program is adminis­ tered by the Crimes Compensation Board, pursuant to an agreement and an arrangement with the federal government. I believe most provinces in Canada have a similar arrangement. Mr.

Speaker, members of the House will recall that we passed amendments to that legislation as early as last fall, expanding the heads for claim under that legislation so that any person who suffers personal injury, a loss of that kind, as a result of criminal activity will be compensated by the board. MR. GHITTER: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary ques­ tion. I'm wondering if the Attorney General would advise whether the act now includes damage to personal or real property, as distinguished from injury to person. MR. FOSTER: At the moment, Mr.

Speaker, legislation does not anticipate damage to property, only damage to one's person. MR. GHITTER: A further supplementary . . . MR. SPEAKER: With great respect to the honorable and learned Member for Calgary Buffalo, we're clearly getting into an area of interpreting the law. If we're going to be discussing or questioning about intentions to amend the law, that's one thing. With regard to

interpretation, as it now stands, that is not a function of the question period. MR. GHITTER: A further supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Would the hon. Attorney General then consider amending

Section 7 of The Criminal Injuries

168 ALBERTA HANSARD March 15, 1976 Compensation Act, so that it would include the head of damage incurred by citizens as a result of destruc­ tion to their real or personal property arising from the criminal offences committed by other individuals? MR. NOTLEY: Agreed. MR. FOSTER: Mr. Speaker, I accept with pleasure the recommendation of my colleague from Calgary Buffalo, and suggest that that is a major policy question which should be considered — if at all — by caucus, by government, and by cabinet. I will look forward to my colleague's advancing that as a policy question for us in the future.

Bail Eligibility (continued) MR. KUSHNER: Mr. Speaker, I wish to direct my question to the Solicitor General. However, I want first of all to congratulate him for sending the telegram with reference to bail to the Solicitor General of Canada. My question has been answered by the Solicitor General, Mr. Speaker. Elk Island National Park DR. BUCK: Nice speech, John. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to ask the hon. Minister of Federal and Intergovernmental Affairs — about this time of year the rumors about the future of Elk Island Park start to spread in Edmonton and the surrounding area. Mr.

Speaker, I'd like to know if the minister has had any correspondence or dealings with the federal minister responsible for parks as to the future of Elk Island Park, the recreational facilities, the campsites and the golf course. There are rumors that they will be phased out. Can the minister indicate if there has been any liaison? MR. HYNDMAN: Mr. Speaker, I don't have any definite information on the annual rumors, so I will make an annual statement that I wouldn't comment on the annual rumors.

I would be pleased, though, to get in touch with the federal government and ascertain whether any changes are proposed with respect to the park. I have no recent information on the subject. Energy Conservation (continued) MR. KIDD: I revert to the former matter of conserva­ tion. I think my question was answered by implica­ tion, but perhaps I could make it crystal clear. Did the hon.

Minister of Energy and Natural Resources mean in his statement that if Alberta were getting at or near the world price for oil, the impact in large centres of population, such as Ontario, would be such that it would contribute greatly towards the total conservation of petroleum in Canada? MR. GETTY: Mr. Speaker, I would say that would be my understanding. I would feel it would be crystal clear that if we get the price of the resource at the right level, obviously people would have to exercise a greater degree of conservation so they would not be wasting it or using it inefficiently.

It has been one of the arguments the Government of Alberta has been using in the whole matter of oil and gas pricing. Equal Pay for Equal Work DR. PAPROSKI: A question to the Minister of Hospitals and Medical Care. Mr. Speaker, the ques­ tion is: what is the status of equal pay for equal work for males and females in the hospital system at the present time? MR. MINIELY: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to report to the hon. member and to the House that that matter has been resolved by negotiation between the Alberta Hospital Association and the Alberta Certified Nursing Aide Association.

I think both groups are to be complimented for the speedy resolution of the problem, following the court decision by Mr. Justice MacDonald. DR. PAPROSKI: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker, if I may. Will this decision, resulting in more expenditure, be reflected in the budget for the hospitals? MR. MINIELY: Well, Mr. Speaker, I've indicated to both the Alberta Hospital Association and officials of the Hospital Services Commission that I wish them to calculate the impact of the equal pay for equal work agreement arrived at between the Alberta Hospital Association and the certified nursing aides.

I do not expect that we will be able to have a firm figure of what the cost is, when it works through the entire hospital system in Alberta, in sufficient time to incorporate it in the upcoming budget which my colleague will be presenting. DR. PAPROSKI: Mr. Speaker, I wanted to ask a question of the Minister of Labour. I see he's leaving. I wonder if he would dare come back. Thank you. Mr. Speaker, a final supplementary on this topic, if I may. What is the status of this particular concern, Mr. Speaker, in our general labor force? MR. CRAWFORD: Mr.

Speaker, I wonder if the hon. member would just repeat the portion of the question that was directed to me. DR. PAPROSKI: The question is: what is the status of equal pay for equal work in reference to males and females in the hospital systems — and that was answered — and what is the status now in the general labor force in Alberta regarding that issue? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member appears to be asking for some statistics, which may or may not be generally available. DR. PAPROSKI: Mr. Speaker, I'm sorry. There's a misunderstanding I believe.

The question I was asking is whether the policy and the decision of the government, reflected in the labor force, of equal pay and equal work has been made already and is generally known by the labor force.

March 15, 1976 ALBERTA HANSARD 169 MR. CRAWFORD: Well, Mr. Speaker, the question the hon. member began by asking related to a specific and well-known instance where the question of equal pay for equal work was, I think without doubt, a problem that had to be worked at and resolved, and was much contributed to by the judgment that was given. But to be able to answer comprehensively in regard to the entire labor force I fear, Mr. Speaker, would be virtually an impossibility.

The bulk of the labor force is employed by people who are private enterprise employers, although large por­ tions are employed by the government or by semi- public agencies. I think the way I would like to state the matter, to try to be fair to the hon. member but also to be fair to the difficulty of the issue that has been raised, is that the law of Alberta makes the sort of provision which is necessary in order to achieve what the hon. member is asking about. That's really what happened in the Royal Alex case.

Without the law of Alberta being framed in order to provide that result, the events wouldn't have occurred as they did. There may well be other cases which will have to be clarified in the scrutiny of a court or the Legislature as time goes by. In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, I would say that the existence of the law itself is the principal assist that people have, and the people's awareness of the government's policy under The Individual's Rights Protection Act is the important feature. MR. LOUGHEED: I just wanted to supplement the answer if I could, Mr. Speaker. I thought the hon.

Minister of Labour pointed out to the hon. member and to the House that it should be noted and underlined that because of the provisions of The Individual's Rights Protection Act, which takes primacy over all other items of legislation in this province, unless there's a notwithstanding provision — we have, because of that, the strongest provision for equality of any province in Canada in terms of equal work, equal pay. DR. PAPROSKI: Mr. Speaker, a final final supple­ mentary on this topic, if I may. Mr.

Speaker, in recognizing those comments — and I appreciate them and of course concur, as the House does — is the government doing anything in addition to expedite this type of solution in the labor force so these inequalities will not remain dangling? MR. CRAWFORD: Mr. Speaker, to a large measure I think the hon. member is raising the role of the Human Rights Commission, which is very attentive to its duties. I would say that specific other instances in the balance of the labor force that come to their attention will receive the same sort of scrutiny as the hospital one.

The hon. member might know that although the Royal Alex case was the well-known one, there were some 20 such cases in regard to hospitals brought to the Human Rights Commission. I would hazard to suggest that the accumulation of those cases at the Human Rights Commission, and their handling of them, was instrumental in leading to the settlement my honorable colleague has referred to which followed the handing down of the judgment. MR. CLARK: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to direct a supplementary question to the Minister of Hospitals and Medical Care.

Have directions now gone out to local hospital boards across the province, indicating that in light of the settlement that's now been arrived at between the hospital boards and CNAs, hospital boards can expect additional financial support from the province to cover the implications of this settle­ ment? A number of boards have been talking in terms of laying off CNAs and taking on ward aides in their place. MR. MINIELY: Yes, Mr. Speaker.

In reply to the hon. leader, perhaps I should have indicated earlier, when saying that I was still trying to pin down the actual cost of what the CNA settlement will be, that we have preliminary 'guesstimates', but they're not firm enough to satisfy me in order for us to incorporate the actual total cost into the budget my colleague, the Provincial Treasurer, will be presenting this Friday night. From the beginning, I have indicated to the Alberta Hospital Association that this equal pay for equal work decision, and the negotiations in implementing the decision of Mr. Justice MacDonald, was, as the hon.

Premier has said, really the first major decision of its kind under The Individual's Rights Protection Act passed by Alberta in 1972. For that reason, I have also indicated to the hospital system that we felt the impact on the hospital system of the court decision was one the province should fund separately when we have an accurate figure of what that cost would be. MR. MUSGREAVE: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to address a supplementary question to the Minister of Labour.

It's my understanding that in the province of Ontario the enforcement of discrimination between male and female workers, in situations where union plants do not exist, is being carried out by the government. I would like to ask the Minister of Labour if the government anticipates laying the charges where discrimination exists in those situations where there is no union. MR. CRAWFORD: Well, Mr. Speaker, I'd have to say to the hon. member that I am not fully briefed — and I don't know that he is, in all fairness — on exactly what is done in Ontario.

It sounds to me that to say the government itself is involved in the enforcement, may be a misunderstanding. They have had a human rights commission for many years in the province of Ontario. The situation in the province of Alberta is that the Alberta Human Rights Commission operates under legislation which is generally acknowledged by human rights commissions to be the best of its type in the country. I think the hon. member's question does, in all its essential details, relate to the role of the human rights commission. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Calgary Buffalo, followed by the hon.

Member for Calgary McCall. MR. GHITTER: My question, Mr. Speaker, has been dealt with.

170 ALBERTA HANSARD March 15, 1976 Downey Report MR. LITTLE: Mr. Speaker, I would direct this question to the Minister of Government Services and Culture. Would the hon. minister advise the Legislature if there have been any recent efforts to implement the recommendations of the Downey report on libraries, 1973? MR. SCHMID: Mr. Speaker, discussions regarding the Downey report are being held between the Department of Advanced Education and Manpower, the Department of Education, and the department of Culture.

Of course, any questions regarding provisions for increased support would have to come after the budget has been presented. Tuition Increases MR. NOTLEY: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to direct this question to the hon. Minister of Advanced Education and Manpower. Can he advise the Assembly whether the government intends to approve the 12.5 per cent tuition increase sought by the Grande Prairie Regional College, or in fact is the government insisting on the 25 per cent increase? DR. HOHOL: Mr. Speaker, just two comments for the information of the House.

That determination is based on approval by the minister, rather than the government. Secondly, that decision is still outstanding. MR. NOTLEY: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question to the hon. minister. Is the minister in a position to advise the Assembly, and the Grande Prairie Regional College board, when that decision in fact will be made? DR. HOHOL: I suppose, Mr. Speaker, when the decision is made it's going to be a public one. MR. NOTLEY: Mr. Speaker, a further supplementary question to the hon. minister.

Has the government given any consideration to increasing the amount of money available for student loans, in light of tuition fee increases generally across the advanced education system? DR. HOHOL: Mr. Speaker, just to recall for the Assembly, the regulations had that kind of effect when we upgraded them in the fall of this year. DR. PAPROSKI: Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the minister could answer a supplementary about loans. Could the minister indicate to the House our relative position to other provinces, in relationship to the amount of dollar loans per student in relationship to other. . . MR.

SPEAKER: Order please. We've had some comparisons with other jurisdictions already in this question period. I don't think we should go any further. MR. NOTLEY: Mr. Speaker, [inaudible] the hon. minister. Can the minister advise the Assembly what consultation took place [between] the Department of Advanced Education and Manpower and the various college boards in the province, prior to the general escalation in student fees announced variously across the province? DR. HOHOL: Mr. Speaker, the consultation was, of course, informal.

The statutes of the colleges and universities are clear in their specification of respon­ sibility whereby the boards of governors recommend increases in fees to the minister for approval. So consultation occurred, but an informal kind. ORDERS OF THE DAY head: CONSIDERATION OF HIS HONOUR THE LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR'S SPEECH Mr. Shaben proposed the following motion to the Assembly: That an humble address be presented to His Honour the Honourable the Lieutenant-Governor of Alberta as follows: To His Honour the Honourable Ralph G.

Steinhauer, Lieutenant-Governor of the province of Alberta: We, Her Majesty's most dutiful and loyal subjects, the Legislative Assembly, now assembled, beg leave to thank Your Honour for the gracious speech Your Honour has been pleased to address to us at the opening of the present session. [Adjourned debate: Mr. R. Speaker] MR. R. SPEAKER: Mr. Speaker, in making remarks with regard to the throne speech, I would first of all like to congratulate the hon. Member for Lesser Slave Lake and the hon. Member for Calgary Bow. I certainly feel they gave a splendid effort and a good beginning to the throne debate.

In addressing my remarks to the members of this House, Mr. Speaker, I would like to cover three important areas that I feel are significant at this time. Foremost in the document read by our Lieutenant- Governor is reference to the state of the economy and the ominous threat of inflation. It is to this topic that the first portion of my remarks will be directed. Secondly, Mr. Speaker, I shall relate the government's nine-month financial statement, ending December 31, 1975, to the threat of inflation and to restraint. Mr.

Speaker, in this House and in other legislatures in parliaments of this land, many critical issues are raised which demand our fullest attention and correct response, issues such as double-digit inflation, wage and price controls, housing shortages, inordinate increases in government spending and, indeed, a lessening of faith and confidence in the multiplying bureaucracies of all three levels of gov­ ernment in Canadian society. Mr. Speaker, this government and most govern­ ments in Canada have admitted that there is a direct relationship and correlation between government spending and the problem of inflation.

I would like to quote from the throne speech where this is indicated by the government we have here today. The throne speech reads: "Governments have contributed to the pressures of inflation by their spending programs." We find that back in 1968, when the present Prime

March 15, 1976 ALBERTA HANSARD 171 Minister of Canada was newly appointed, he agreed with that particular statement. I'd like to quote one or two of his statements at that time. He said: "If we do not want inflation, we must not print money. I think everyone knows that. If we do not want to have inflation, we have got to spend as much as we have and no more." Later on, on July 4, 1968, he said: "I repeat, we have been telling people we intend to balance our budget." Mr.

Speaker, this government in this Speech from the Throne, and the Prime Minister of the land, have both indicated a clear understanding that excessive political promises have led to excessive government spending. But understanding, Mr. Speaker, is one thing. Acting responsibly, that is, the will to stand against what is politically expedient to win back our legislative seats, is another thing. And, really, Mr. Speaker, therein lies the root of the dilemma we are in at the present time. Let's examine that point. This government has made political promises in the past two elections.

We recognize that programs such as the rural gas program, the agricultural grant program for recrea­ tional complexes, a lamb plant, a northern Alberta rape plant, corral grants, calf loans and grants, have been placed before the people of Alberta, and the list goes on and on. These are only a few examples, Mr. Speaker. But these programs have been characterized by huge expenditures, scramble by departments to determine regulations, much confu­ sion, needless red tape, but a continuous requirement for government to dip deeper into the treasury. The crunch, Mr. Speaker, has not arrived at this point in time.

Many communities and gas co-ops will still require huge sums to meet capital costs. Political pressure will be on the government to subsidize the gas price and to provide operating grants to those local community centres. Mr. Speaker, the throne speech mentions that the government is going to have stretched-out program implementation. They talk about planning. Mr. Speaker, those are good terms. But we have had two elections; we have had actions by this government; and at this point in time, the planning, the stretching- out of programs, withstanding the potential political flak, has just not happened.

A number of years ago I think there were examples of this type of programming that were very successful. Programs such as the placing of a power grid across the province for rural farmers and the underground telephone system were implemented on a staged and planned basis. I recall, being in government at that time, that there was political flak, a lot of political pressure.

But we knew that the relationship between the amount of money we could spend and the programs we could implement was very, very clear, and clear enough to determine the direction we took, direction that was responsible in planning and spending. Mr. Speaker, these political promises have been characterized by government growth. If we added up all three levels of government, one of every seven wage earners is already directly employed by a government. If you add those who directly draw their pay from government sources, the number is closer to one in four.

Governments that are composed of well-meaning, intelligent men and women seem to be becoming compulsive spenders. The combined spending by all three levels of government in Canada totals 44 per cent of the gross national product. Mr. Speaker, in the clearest possible terms, my position on this matter of government spending is: there is too much of it, and it should and must be cut down. Excessive and wasteful government spending is ruining this country.

There are some who believe that inflation can be beaten by other measures than decreasing the alarming, uncontrolled increases in spending by all levels of government. Some believe inflation can be beaten by cutting $1.5 billion of a $29 billion budget, only to see the next year's total spending exceed $35 billion. That is the current situation, or the current experience, with the federal government. At the same time, some believe that keeping the provincial budget at an 11 per cent increase will stop inflation in this part of the land. Mr. Speaker, some believe in the tooth fairy as well.

Secondly, overextended and overspending govern­ ments exist because we have not believed enough in people making their own way without the bewildering number of provincial, federal, and municipal grants, handouts, subsidies, and programs that in all too many cases bring self-reliant people to states of dependency. We have not believed that Albertans and Canadians are essentially strong and do not require the full aid of governments. Mr.

Speaker, at the same time, we well recognize that there are people who need the assistance of government: people in illness, disability, old age, and other causes beyond their control. In general, I would say we should support essential services to help our fellow man meet his basic needs of food, clothing, shelter, and medical care when he is unable to do it for himself. In the coming budget debate, Mr. Speaker, it must then be our firmest intent to bring government spending here on our doorstep under control. Yes, there are going to be political risks involved in such a course.

Some harsh remarks will be earned from those whose interests are most hurt in our deter­ mination to cut government spending. But we must remember, as members of this Legislature, that all of Alberta and Canada will suffer greatly if we equivocate in a resolve to end runaway government spending. Mr. Speaker, to exemplify the point I have been making, I would like to examine the nine-month statement placed before us recently and made availa­ ble for our examination. This nine-month statement is the accounts, expenditures, and revenues of the province of Alberta to December 31, 1975.

When you examine that nine-month statement, you must examine it in terms of a concept of restraint. I ask, what concept of restraint is the Conservative government applying to that statement at the present? When I read it, I find some very alarming trends, some situations that we, as people in Alberta, had better stand up and take note of, and be ready to say something about at this point in time. Let me make some comments which are more specific. First, expenditures: we recognize in that nine- month report that expenditures have increased 32 per cent, to over $1.8 billion from $1.4 billion.

Secondly, revenue during the same period of time has only increased 6 per cent. The Provincial Treasurer has said that potentially it may go to 10 per cent. Thirdly,

172 ALBERTA HANSARD March 15, 1976 the cash surplus as of December 31, 1974 has been drawn upon. That surplus has been reduced by 50 per cent, to $313 million from $637 million. Fourthly, Mr. Speaker, the problem becomes even more tragic when we subtract the cash deficit of the capital account of over $312 million, which leaves our cash position at less than $1 million. Mr. Speaker, the fifth point is even more alarming.

The overall cash swing of this government from December 31, 1974 to December 31, 1975 has gone from a near $330 million total to a minus sum of $162 million, for a total overall cash change of $492 million — nearly $.5 billion in one year. Sixth, Mr. Speaker, that is not all that makes the restraint program of this government frightening. While the revenue was at an all-time high of $2.1 billion, Alberta's debt increased $27 million to $357 million.

The seventh item, added to the first six, is that the indirect debt or the guarantees have increased by over $.5 billion, or 30 per cent, to $2.2 billion from $1.7 billion. Mr. Speaker, when you look at the trends, when you read a throne speech that talks about restraint — one of the members on the other side of the House indicated that restraint was the whole essence of the speech, directions of restraint. How much can you believe in the Speech from the Throne when you read a document of fact, rather than a document of intent or words? Mr.

Speaker, I think the budget coming up within a week will most likely be a very revealing statement. Certainly, the government has a lot of answering to do with regard to the concept of restraint. I would like to examine the report just a little further. On pages 16, 17, and 18 we recognize some very interesting things, interesting in the sense that I think we should be concerned about them. On pages 16 and 17, and on part of 18, there is a list of some 35 programs that have received payments over and above the budget of May 1975, items which were not budgeted for at that particular time.

The total amount of cost or extra money that the government had to put into these programs is over $471 million. These programs include such things as grants to schools, hospitalization, natural gas, universities, local health services, crop insurance, public assistance, livestock, mineral planning: the list goes on. Mr. Speaker, they may be ongoing programs that we have accepted as a Legislature, and that may be all right. The fact is, these moneys were added into the budget after May — a huge sum of money. On the other side of the picture, however, there are programs where payments were decreased.

There are five of them totalling just over $106 million. The facts from those pages are that the deficit — or amount of money to be added for this new expenditure since the May budget — is around $365 million. I think that's of concern, Mr. Speaker. I would like to make one or two points with regard to it. First, maybe the programs are acceptable. Secondly, I believe this government has misjudged its estimates. If that's the kind of budget that will be reported a week from now, we have a lot of concern. There has been no practice of restraint in that nine-month statement.

Certainly, with that type of overexpenditure, we can charge them with mismanagement. I would like to further analyze that interim state­ ment and say this: there has been no effort on the part of this government to really cut spending or control inflation. Restraint is just about a joke. A 32 per cent increase in expenditure continued by this government means that our expenditures double every three years. Let's hope that is not the case. At the same time, a 6 per cent increase in revenue means that 16 years are required to double our income.

As the Provincial Treasurer indicated to us, that increase may go up to 10 per cent, which means it takes 10 years. The fourth point: pressure on our cash reserves will continue with this type of budgeting. Fifthly, deficit financing and unbalanced budgets will be prevalent. Sixthly, the heritage trust fund, that so many people have so eloquently talked about and made such beautiful remarks about, will be under great pressure and may be required, along the line, to bail this government out. Let's hope that doesn't happen. Mr.

Speaker, as a statement to sum up that particular analysis of the nine-month statement and the government's posture toward restraint, I would have to say: if a private citizen ran his affairs that way, we would have nothing but a series of bankrupt­ cies across this province. AN HON. MEMBER: We're having some of those now. MR. R. SPEAKER: Certainly, we may have an increased number over what there are at the present time. AN HON. MEMBER: Cow-calf. MR. R. SPEAKER: Right, cow-calf — I could go on and on and list a number of these. AN HON. MEMBER: Government insurance corporation. MR. R. SPEAKER: Mr. Speaker, in

summary of what I have said, acting out of political expediency or political compromise does not characterize a govern­ ment of restraint, but one of financial irresponsibility. The governments of Alberta and Canada must come to grips with the force of inflation. This force of inflation, as I've attempted to demonstrate, is gov­ ernment overspending. Spending at the present rate of 32 per cent per year will double the budget within three years. Today, the actions of the provincial and federal governments are actions of expediency.

These are not courageous and responsible actions of governments who have said to Albertans and Cana­ dians that their objective is one of restraint. Secondly, Mr. Speaker, the Speech from the Throne offers no action on the part of this government in making representation to the federal government regarding federal fiscal and monetary policies, such as policies regarding the level of deficit budgeting, taxation schedules, and the year-to-year increase in the money supply. Because of its economic position, Alberta can certainly be a leader in advocating responsible fiscal and budgetary poli­ cies.

I think that should be the responsibility they take. Thirdly, Mr. Speaker, and more specifically, the

March 15, 1976 ALBERTA HANSARD 173 nine-month statement of the Conservative govern­ ment sets a frightening, alarming, and irreversible precedent for a supposed year of restraint in 1976 and '77. Even the 11 per cent restraint guideline, added to the 32 per cent increase in government spending for the current fiscal year, gives Albertans an average percentage increase of over 20 per cent in 1976 and '77. This kind of budget manipulation will be misleading to Albertans. We can only blame ourselves in the final analysis, Mr. Speaker, when triple-digit inflation is upon us. Fourthly, Mr.

Speaker, it is clear that this govern­ ment — and indeed, most administrations across this land — is persuaded that a prosperous, effective, and orderly economic political structure requires more and more regulations, rules, interventions, laws, and acts of legislation passed by governments of this land.

To demonstrate my point, the recent interfering action by the Deputy Premier in the operations of Pacific Western Airlines may only be exceeded — and the Minister of Energy said today they were not going to get into drilling with the Alberta Energy Company — if the Minister of Energy, through his direction, has the Alberta Energy Company drilling in the Suffield Block. Let's hope that doesn't happen, Mr. Speaker. In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, I think the case is very clear. Just as there are natural laws of inertia, gravity, and relativity, there are indeed economic laws.

To attempt to repeal these economic laws would be just as futile as passing laws repealing the law of gravity. One important economic law is the excessive spending by governments which causes the creation of new currency, ultimately leading to infla­ tion. The greater the spending, the greater [the] inflation. Mr. Speaker, to me that must be our number one concern. I conclude with this, Mr. Speaker: stopping inflation requires nothing more and nothing less than cutting off the process of creating overextended and overspending government administrations. MR. BRADLEY: Mr.

Speaker, I am very proud and honored to rise in this Assembly to participate in the Speech from the Throne debate in this second session. First, I would like to add my sincere congratulations to those of my colleagues in compli­ menting the hon. Member for Lesser Slave Lake and the hon. Member for Calgary Bow for the fine addresses they delivered in moving and seconding the acceptance of His Honour the Lieutenant- Governor's speech. Mr. Speaker, I am very honored to represent the diverse constituency of Pincher Creek-Crowsnest in the Alberta Legislature.

As such, I should like to assure the hon. members present, who sat in the 17th Legislature, that I am well aware of the importance the former Member for Pincher Creek- Crowsnest placed on support for musical development in my constituency. I am pleased to see that the department of culture is continuing to recognize the Crowsnest Pass symphony orchestra as being as important to the province, for its talent and dedication to musical development and appreciation, as the Calgary Philharmonic and the Edmonton Symphony.

It is through this type of recognition and support that this government is making an impact on decreas­ ing cultural disparity between our rural areas and our large urban centres. It is this kind of commitment that is making our decentralization policy work, by providing cultural amenities in our smaller communi­ ties. Granted, the Crowsnest Pass symphony orches­ tra is not the Calgary Philharmonic, but it's almost as good. In fact, I was once approached to play the timpani for that esteemed orchestra. Mr.

Speaker, I should like to review with the Assembly some of the initiatives the government has taken in my constituency of Pincher Creek- Crowsnest, and review some of the concerns there. With regard to Highway 3, I am pleased to see that the hon. Deputy Premier and Minister of Transporta­ tion is having considerable work done on Highway 3 in the area of the constituency of the hon. member for Bow Island. Modest progress is being made in my own constituency of Pincher Creek-Crowsnest, but we have to have a firm decision on a route designation and a confirmed construction

schedule if we are to proceed with any great improvements in that area. At this time I should also like to congratulate the Deputy Premier and Minister of Transportation for his fine remarks Friday in the Legislature, in which he set straight the distortions which have emanated from certain quarters with regard to PWA. It was an excellent speech, and I certainly congratulate him. In the speech of the Minister of Transportation I was also pleased to hear the commitment to develop an airport at Pincher Creek to serve southwestern Alberta.

It will be used basically as a water bomber base, but it will also serve the needs of my constitu­ ents and constituents in the area, and people living in southeastern British Columbia. In the area of the jurisdiction of the Minister of Hospitals and Medical Care, I am looking forward to seeing continued progress toward finalization of plans for a new hospital in Pincher Creek. I am looking forward to further developments in that area. Another area of concern which has developed over the past five or six years in my constituency is the handling of solid waste.

I am pleased to see that perhaps a first in the province has developed in my constituency with regard to a number of rural municipalities entering into an agreement to develop regional sanitary landfill. I think this is certainly significant with regard to regional waste management for the province of Alberta. A pollution problem continues in the town of Coleman with regard to the existing coal cleaning plant which, I might note, was approved by the former administration in this province. There are continued discussions in that area, which I hope will see the resolution of that problem in the long term.

Another area of concern in my constituency is the number of jurisdictions, in particular in the Crowsnest Pass. There are five municipalities there. It had been suggested as early as 1911 that these communities should get together to form one gov­ ernment. I'm very pleased to see that within the Department of Municipal Affairs there are continuing discussions with regard to amalgamating local gov­ ernments in the Crowsnest Pass.

It's important for the future of that area that we have a regional approach to land use, in particular with regard to what type of future infrastructure we will require there with anticipated coal development. Now, Mr. Speaker, I should like to make some

174 ALBERTA HANSARD March 15, 1976 comments with regard to the address from His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor. The Speech from the Throne recognizes that Alberta must follow a direction of economic restraint and fiscal responsibili­ ty. I'm proud to be part of this Legislative Assembly whose government established spending restraints well in advance of any other government in Canada. The people of Alberta recognize the leadership demonstrated by this government in establishing economic restraint, while they also realize that putting this program of restraint into practice will not be easy.

A number of programs, no doubt, may have to be cut back or eliminated in order to combat inflation. It is important that Albertans recognize they are receiv­ ing the highest level of service per capita of expendi­ ture of any province in Canada, while paying the lowest level of provincial income tax. I do believe the guidelines established by the government last Sep­ tember are not only responsible but sensible. There are those in this Assembly who are not quite certain where they stand. They preach restraint, but in practice express that this government should initiate new and expensive programs.

I would suggest that this is an example of schizophrenic economics. Mr. Speaker, Albertans support this government's policy of restraint, for they recognize that in terms of what is happening throughout Canada and the rest of the world, Alberta's economic policy of balancing growth and restraint is certainly an island of reason in a sea of irresponsibility. This government's action in the battle to combat inflation has not been surpassed by any other jurisdiction in Canada. We have demonstrated leadership. The others are struggling to follow our example.

I am most grateful for the leadership this government has demonstrated in these difficult times. Mr. Speaker, the government has initiated a number of excellent programs in the area of housing over the last year: programs such as the core housing improvement program, the modest apartment program, the starter home ownership program, the senior citizen home improvement pro­ gram, and continued support in their direct lending program and their farm home lending program.

In this year's throne speech the government has again shown its concern for increasing housing stock by the establishment of the Alberta home mortgage corpora­ tion to provide better accommodation and more choices. These programs have had, and will continue to have, a significant beneficial impact on housing starts in Alberta. I believe the only truly effective method of lowering housing costs is to build more houses.

Unfortunately, because of federal govern­ ment regulations, restrictions, taxation policies, and the economic climate which they have created, house builders are seriously questioning whether they should continue building. In the United States, especially in the states of Colorado and Washington, there tends to be less restriction and regulation, which has resulted in significantly lower housing costs.

For example, a Canadian house building firm is beginning to build homes in Denver, Colorado, because that state has created a climate in which it is easier to construct quality homes there than in Canada, and at a lower cost to the consumer. Mr. Speaker, I'm pleased to see that the govern­ ment will be acting on some of the recommendations of the Land Use Forum by reviewing the question of absentee foreign ownership of land, also that we'll be having the first comprehensive revision of The Plan­ ning Act since 1963. I look forward to participating in active debate with hon. members in both those areas. Mr.

Speaker, I should like to emphasize that my constituency of Pincher Creek-Crowsnest is looking forward with great anticipation to the new coal development policy for Alberta. The time is near when further delay in announcing policy directions for Alberta's future coal development could impair the province's competitive position in developing new markets for Alberta's coal. At this point in time, nations throughout the world recognize that a supply of crude oil to meet their industrial and domestic requirements to the end of the century, perhaps to the end of this decade, is not assured.

They are all looking for alternate sources of energy to meet their requirements. In most cases, coal and all its deriva­ tives are being seriously considered as a very economical alternative. We in Alberta are very fortunate that we have vast reserves of coal. The approach we take in setting guidelines for its development is important.

We must ensure a cautious and orderly development of our resources, ensuring that short-term economic benefits do not outweigh long-term environmental considerations, but that the resource is developed in a responsible manner, that the sale of these resources maximizes return to our citizens, and that resource upgrading and processing occur here in Alberta, creating opportunities for Albertans.

There are several technological areas of coal devel­ opment in which Alberta has the opportunity to demonstrate leadership, which will result in job opportunities for Albertans and in economic diversifi­ cation which will be very important as our revenues from oil and gas production decline. In the area of coal gasification, Alberta has a tremendous opportu­ nity. As the price of other energy sources increases, this becomes a very attractive energy source and a method of providing feedstock for the petrochemical industry. Basically, there are two methods of coal gasifica­ tion.

One is to develop a very expensive distillation facility, which is supplied by existing methods of coal extraction. The second is to process coal in the ground, or technically by the in situ coal gasification method. I believe Alberta should be placing significant emphasis on research into alternate energy sources, other than the present oil sands research, and in particular into in situ coal gasification.

At present the Alberta Research Council is carrying out research in this area, but significantly more research is required if we are actually to get to the point where we can have a practical in situ coal gasification development in this province. I think that is a very reasonable approach to take in terms of developing our coal reserves.

In terms of our coal development, and particularly in light of continued expressed concerns regarding environmental effects of strip mining in the moun­ tainous areas, considerable thought should be given to assisting the coal mining industry to develop hydraulic mining techniques. I recognize that due to

March 15, 1976 ALBERTA HANSARD 175 variability in pitch of seams, faults and thickness of coal seams, this method cannot be pursued in a number of areas in our foothills and mountains. But in those areas which are environmentally sensitive, serious consideration should be given to the hydraulic method of mining, if the geological conditions are conducive and the coal is required to meet our energy demands. The high cost of transporting coal by rail to the market has for a number of years seriously curtailed Alberta's ability to compete for eastern Canadian coal contracts.

Today, because of the increased value of coal, there is an opportunity for Alberta coal to serve Ontario Hydro. Our ability to serve that market could be destroyed at any moment by an unrealistic increase in freight rates. I realize that the Deputy Premier and Minister of Transportation has and is continuing to present Alberta's case in this important matter of freight rates and their inequities which discriminate against economic diversification in western Canada. [Mr.

Diachuk in the Chair] I believe one approach Alberta may have in terms of resolving historic freight rate inequities is to bring to fruition an economical working solids pipeline. Alberta has led the world in research in developing solids pipeline technology. It is now time for Alberta to encourage the building of a practical solids pipeline to transport our coal and other products in order to reduce high transportation costs. It is important to recognize that coal is not only a fuel, but a feedstock from which can be developed all the present secondary products derived from our petroleum resources.

As our oil and gas reserves deplete, coal will play a very important role in Alberta's future as an alternate energy source, as a feedstock for our petrochemical developments, as an opportunity for economic diversification in Alberta, and in terms of creating job opportunities. In our coal development policy, a review of present royalties is essential to ensure that Albertans receive maximum return from the sale of our resources, but recognizing the differences in quality of our coal as to its relative economic value and the cost of extracting higher quality coals. In conclusion, Mr.

Speaker, I am proud to be part of a government that has had the foresight to set up the heritage savings trust fund. Alberta is fortunate to have a government which recognizes that although we are indeed blessed with incremental revenues from our non-renewable resources, it is not ours to spend frivolously today, as is suggested by some in this Assembly. We should set aside those revenues for the benefit of future generations. They, not the present members of this Assembly, will have the opportunity to decide whether their birthright is spent or invested. MR. PURDY: Mr.

Speaker, it's my pleasure today to participate in this throne debate. I would also, as other hon. members have done, offer my congratula­ tions to the Member for Lesser Slave Lake and the Member for Calgary Bow for their very worth-while presentations. In listening to the speeches of members of this Legislature, I've learned more about the history of Alberta than I ever did during my years in high school. For one reason, they didn't present it at that time. But it certainly has been enlightening to learn plans of various constituencies and so on.

I represent the Stony Plain constituency, which takes in about 18 square miles of the city of Edmonton. I think most hon. members in this House don't realize that I probably represent an area larger than any constituency within the city of Edmonton boundaries. The Stony Plain constituency is 50 miles by 24 miles, and right now it has approximately 25,000 to 27,000 people and about 14,000 voters. I was in the House when the Leader of the Opposition brought forth his presentation last Mon­ day.

My sympathy goes out for him as the Leader of the Opposition, because his speech didn't actually deal with some of the problems that face government. He had no alternative action that we should be taking. After hearing five throne speeches in this Legisla­ ture, [I think] this is one document that will serve Alberta in 1976 and to the end of this decade. We look back to 1971, when the Premier stated that we, as a Progressive Conservative government, had an eight-year plan. These new directions for Alberta are about completed now.

I can foresee many exciting years ahead for the people of Alberta under the capable leadership of Peter Lougheed and our team of 68 members. In looking at the throne speech, there are many exciting features in it for 1976: the Alberta heritage savings trust fund, the industrial health and safety legislation, land-use and coal policy. I enjoyed the remarks of my colleague, the Member for Pincher Creek-Crowsnest, in regard to the coal policy, because I guess I represent a constituency that is probably third in the province using it.

We are mining approximately 20,000 tons a day right now which is being used in two electrical generation plants, one at Wabamun and one at Sundance. As more plants go on stream in the province or in that particular area, the use of coal will certainly be increased. I saw with interest in a recent edition of a local paper that the Premier was present with the Legion Commander to commemorate 50 years of Legion work in Canada.

I would like to take this opportunity to say that the Legion organization in Canada has done a tremendous job in having the rest of Canada recognize the role the armed services played in the production of this country and its assets. If it weren't for their willingness, their patriotism towards Canada, we might not have the country we have today with its free, democratic society.

I also mention this 50-year commemoration, in that on April 9 this year I will probably have more honor bestowed upon me than the Premier had the other day when unveiling this plaque, because I will be presenting my father with a 50-year pin. He has been a member of the Legion since it was inaugurated many, many years ago. AN. HON. MEMBER: That's a lot of years. MR. PURDY: That's right. I'd like to touch on some of the areas of accom­ plishments that have been done in the Stony Plain constituency, and some of my concerns.

I look at transportation as it was in 1971 during that campaign — most political parties were looking at it as a safer highway system, and so on. When I was elected, I

176 ALBERTA HANSARD March 15, 1976 discussed this with the minister at that time, Mr. Copithorne, and I have been working with Dr. Horner since his appointment in 1975. Since 1972, the Stony Plain constituency has received approximately $22 million in four-lane work and overpasses. This has certainly cut down on the accidents and the carnage on that piece of highway, especially from here to Wabamun. Since 1972, we have completed the Winterburn overpass, the Devon overpass, the Stony Plain overpass, the Kapasiwin underpass, and the Wabamun overpass.

Four lanes are about to be completed from Duffield corner to Wabamun, and the road work from Carvel corner to Alberta Beach should be complete. We received many miles of secondary upgrading in this constituency. We look at Highway 16 west of Edmonton right now, and the average transportation figure is approx­ imately 16,000 cars per day. This is an increase over Highway 2 south of Edmonton, and makes Highway 16 west of Edmonton the busiest thoroughfare in the province. We have problems in that Highway 16 has only one entrance to Edmonton, on 101 Avenue, on 107 and 111 Streets. No other route will carry traffic.

We are planning in the next year to upgrade 118 Avenue to a two-lane standard, and I would also [request] that the secondary road south of the Enoch Indian Reserve, which is known as 627, be upgraded and brought into the city of Edmonton at the Whitemud freeway. I mentioned 16,000 cars per day. This is from Spruce Grove to Edmonton. We have approximately 11,000 cars per day from Stony Plain to Edmonton, and from Wabamun to Stony Plain between 6,000 and 7,000 cars. This reasons for this, Mr. Speaker, are the summer traffic and the increased growth of Spruce Grove and Stony Plain. Rural subdivisions have increased.

Right now, throughout the province, 40 per cent of the subdivi­ sions are taking place in the counties of Parkland and Strathcona. About 60 per cent of this 40 per cent average is west of Edmonton, in the county of Parkland and the county of Lac Ste. Anne. At the present time, the paved portion of 118 Avenue is carrying about 2,600 cars per day. The unpaved portion, serving the farming area and the rural subdivision area, is carrying about 800. The completion of 118 Avenue will alleviate the problem.

But I think that residents of the area will not use 118 Avenue until the city of Edmonton rebuilds that portion from 156 to 184 Street, because it's not upgraded at all. One concern I have, and I was mentioning it a minute ago, is secondary road 627. A number of years ago we did some work south of Duffield to rebuild part of the road. Another six miles is supposed to be built this year, but we are now negotiating with the minister's department and his office in an attempt to get the Departments of the Environment, and Recreation, Parks and Wildlife involved in right of way.

It appears that the Department of the Environment, and the other department, would like to see five quarter sections of prime agricultural land sphered to build a road, instead of going across a ravine that may cost a few dollars to put a bridge in. I personally walked this piece of land, and I've travelled in other parts of the province, and I don't see why we can't build a bridge across this ravine and not upset the livelihood of five farmers in the Duffield area. During the 1975 election, the concern of school space in my constituency became a political football.

A citizens' group was formed which worked with officials of the county and with the school buildings branch. Once again, I want to thank the group from zone 1 in the county of Parkland for help and time spent to resolve the problem. But we still have problems, some of which are with present regulations, which I want to outline. I'm sorry the Minister of Education isn't in his place, but I'll certainly be getting these back to him. We have a number of new starts in the county of Parkland. In the town of Spruce Grove we have Woodhaven, the Queen Street school, which is now complete.

But we have one school — on June 24, 1975 the Minister of Education put his signature on an agreement to build a school. But because the council of the county of Parkland cannot receive land from the town of Spruce Grove and their council, this building is standing in abeyance and is not being built to serve the needs of the school children in Spruce Grove and the surrounding area. I have indicated to the school trustees responsible for that particular area, let's build the school outside Spruce Grove, and let them bus their children to this new school.

We've also finished the first portable module school in the province of Alberta at Westview Village, Winterburn. This is a mobile home area consisting of about 700 mobile homes. The government and the school branch decided to put in a modular school that could be moved in case the land was someday reclassified. Stony Plain school in Meridian Heights, which was the first community core school built in the province, has had an addition of eight portables this year to serve its needs.

I was a little shocked a couple of days ago when I learned that after two years of negotiation with the county of Parkland, the band council of the Enoch Indian Reserve, and the federal Department of Indian Affairs — they've been working with the Department of Education to sign an agreement for a school on the Enoch Reserve. All the native children now attend separate school in Edmonton. This new facility would allow, by agreement, a joint school for both the native children on the reserve and the white children from the surrounding area. This would knit closer the native and white population.

They can work together, Mr. Speaker, if given a chance. The other day the Minister of Education indicated that the life expectancy of a school is 35 years. The agreement set up at that time with the native people of Enoch, the county of Parkland, and the government was for a 75-year lease. The school buildings branch rejected this on the premise that the band council turned the land over to the county. This is so much nonsense, Mr. Speaker. How can we, as a govern­ ment which puts emphasis on trying to have the native people work closer with our white people, allow such a decision?

Two other agreements of this nature have been signed in this province. Mr. Speaker, I'm asking that the Minister of Education go back to the school buildings branch, wake up some of those bureaucrats in his department, and inform them that there are people living in Alberta who are concerned with the attitude this department has taken in regard to the type of

March 15, 1976 ALBERTA HANSARD 177 agreement that I have outlined to the Assembly. Some of the concerns I see with the school buildings administration I'll just outline to the Assembly, Mr. Speaker. At the present time, Alberta statutes do not require that a municipality provide a school site in a new development, so no moneys are provided by government for the purchase of a site. I would hope that when the new Planning Act comes in, this requirement is in it.

Another concern I have is that it states that recognition of need will be given to a new school if growth is at 5 and 10 per cent, but no mention of growth at 15 and 20 per cent, which we have west of Edmonton. Another concern I have is that the capacity of classrooms should definitely not include additional spaces, such as music rooms, art rooms, the stage for drama, and so on. Another concern is that school planning on a long-term basis is essential in growing areas.

The use of free-standing portables does fill a short-term need, for a few months in the fall until the core building is ready, or during a school term when a sudden influx occurs. The key to meeting accommo­ dation needs in growing areas lies in early recognition of needs by the school buildings board. The present formula is totally inadequate. Why not recognize projected figures? Another concern is the Meridian Heights School. In that school we have a lunch/study area that right now has 55 elementary desks in an area that usually holds about 30.

There's no place for the youngsters at dinner time, because the school was designed around a lunch/study area. I would think this should also be looked at. I would suggest to this Assembly, Mr. Speaker, that we strike a committee to review the legislation of the school buildings regulations we have, and get some input from concerned people in the province of Alberta and concerned elected members of this Legislature. Going on to a different area, another concern I have is with regional planning in the province. I'll be mentioning this more in my remarks when The Planning Act is debated in this Legislature.

I see right now that regional planning commissions, especially the Edmonton Regional Planning Commission with which I am now familiar, are top-heavy with person­ nel from government departments and administration. There's not that much input from local people. They have their elected people who sit on these boards. I have looked at the commission. It requires some expertise in rural planning; more so, a total concept in rural planning. It now allows land development, but has no input for social needs.

We require more than a few technicians from other countries — such as Britain and other European countries — who perhaps have contributed to the planning problem. It's starting in Alberta now, Mr. Speaker. Let's stop it before we have a problem on our hands. I had the pleasure of sitting in on a council meeting in the summer village of Alberta Beach, at which the Department of the Environment and the Edmonton Regional Planning Commission were present. At that particular meeting we were trying to emphasize a regional plan for Alberta Beach which would centre around the recreational use of the area.

At that time, the Edmonton Regional Planning Commission infor­ med me and the mayor and his council that this couldn't be done because we'd have to do a regional plan for the whole area they are responsible for. That night I pointed out to the gentleman from the Edmonton Regional Planning Commission that this was not actually necessary, that I'd like to see a plan developed for the Lac Ste. Anne area. Then we could deal with that one as an isolated case. A couple of weeks ago I also met with the town council of Spruce Grove and the chamber of com­ merce.

They informed me — and I've written the minister and his department and other people — that the town of Spruce Grove has actually lost its identity with the Edmonton Regional Planning Commission, in that if they want to come up with a plan to advertise the town . . . It has put in an industrial park. It approached the Edmonton Regional Planning Com­ mission, which informed the town that it cannot get government assistance, or any other assistance, that it must get the assistance because it is part of the metropolitan area of Edmonton.

I think this is so much nonsense, especially since we as a government have put emphasis on decentral­ ization, out of the metropolitan areas and into the rural areas. I would hope that the Minister of Business Development and Tourism and the Minister of Municipal Affairs would look at this problem. Let's get this one alleviated. Many recommendations were set forth in the Land Use Forum, and they have principles which should be adopted to allow more orderly planning with no overlap. The report calls for planning at only one level. At this time, as far as I'm concerned, there's just too much overlap.

I would hope the new Planning Act would bring this forth: planning deci­ sions at the local level only. The ones who know and have answers are the locally-elected councillors. Legislation and regulation should allow for flexibili­ ty. At the present time, the regulations are drawn province-wide and don't always meet the local prob­ lems. The process remains as simple as possible. By looking at present regulations, one can only see a holdup and much overlapping of jurisdictions. The responsibility for decisions among agencies should be clear. Once again, the regulations are not clear in this respect.

Policy decisions should be made by elected officials of the local municipality. They are the people who are answerable to the people of their area. The distinction between management and planning should be made more clear, as it is another area of overlap. I can only say that the planning commission must hire people with more experience and who have knowledge which affects the long-term planning of an area. I spoke a minute ago, Mr. Speaker, about meeting with the summer village of Alberta Beach and its council. The area around Lac Ste.

Anne is getting to be one of the last recreational areas we have left in this province that hasn't a polluted lake. We only have to look at Lake Isle, which from June 1 to September 1 is green with algae. It's uncomfortable for swimming, and the weed growth is evident throughout the whole lake. It's not much of a lake now for recreational sports. I discussed Lake Wabamun with a number of people who have lived in Wabamun for the past 50

178 ALBERTA HANSARD March 15, 1976 years, and they say that lake has been deteriorating. But . . . AN HON. MEMBER: Calgary Power. MR. PURDY: No, I can't get into that one, because there may be a bit of a conflict. All I can say is that they have stated the weeds have been evident in Wabamun for the last 30 to 50 years, and they will probably still be there, even if Calgary Power gets off the lake. AN HON. MEMBER: Commercial. MR. PURDY: No, I'm not recommending that. The other day I looked at the remarks of the hon.

Member for Spirit River-Fairview, stating that the Minister of Culture should not be in his place on the front bench. Now I take exception to these remarks, Mr. Speaker, when I look at the job the Minister of Government Services and Culture has done through­ out the province of Alberta, and more so in my constituency. He initiated a community hall improvement program which induced $44,000 worth of grants into the Stony Plain constituency; 22 community halls that might have gone down without the extra money to help them along.

The extra grants for the Yello- whead Library, which serves a large area — and there are many members in this Legislature who are responsible in the Yellowhead Library field. Assistance to Camp He-Ho-Ha [was] approximately $7,000 in 1974. [It's] the only camp of its kind for the handicapped situated in this particular part of the province. The summer employment program of 1974, approximately $10,000; the small business $3,000; Golden Age Clubs, over $2,000; and the band in Onoway which would not have been able to function if it weren't for the minister's involvement, and he contributed.

I don't know what the total amount of that grant was, but it was significant. They now have saved the band in the Onoway area because of the minister's involvement. I would just like to personally congratulate him for the work he has done in this province, and in my area. I also welcome the announcement by the Solicitor General. They are going to train native people on Indian reserves for policing of these reserves. The only caveat I would put on that is when we get these people into the isolated areas or into the reserves, we give them the full powers other RCMP constables would have.

They just can't function without these. Many of them are isolated from RCMP detachments. In my area I have three Indian reserves: Enoch, Duffield, and Glenevis. They're all about 20 miles from the nearest RCMP detachment. Last Friday evening I had the pleasure of being present at the Ste. Anne gas co-op annual meeting. The meeting was attended by about 150 to 200 people. I have watched this co-op with interest in that it is mainly in the Stony Plain constituency, part of it in Whitecourt, and part of it in the hon. Dr. Horner's constituency, Barrhead.

As most hon. members of this Legislature realize, the rural gas policy was drawn and formulated from the Ste. Anne gas co-op. They set the groundwork to make this depleting resource available to rural Albertans, a resource that should have been made available to them many years ago. But I guess, under Social Credit administration, when they stated that 80 per cent of our people would be living in the metropolitan areas, who'd want rural gas? It was only through the responsibility of a Conservative government that the rural gas plan went ahead.

Gas Alberta has been involved in most of the co-ops in the province in regards to billing and buying of gas. At this meeting on Friday night, a motion was passed stating that, effective immediately, the Ste. Anne gas co-op will do their own billing. They feel this will save them approximately 8.5 cents a bill. Indications at this meeting by a number of people that I talked to indicated that they received bills from Gas Alberta for $3,000, $3,500, $2,500, when in actual fact, the bill was only $18 or $19. It would take them four or five months to get these bills straightened out.

I know the people in the Department of Utilities and Telephones will probably be upset by the gas co-op making the decision to pull out of Gas Alberta's billing distribution system. I say, more power to the directors of the Ste. Anne gas co-op. They have their own co-op to run and the decision is theirs. Knowing this particular group of people, who have brought this co-op from a membership of nothing in 1972 to a membership of 1,618 burning customers in 1976, they can do the job, Mr. Speaker. In concluding, Mr. Speaker, I would just like to use the words of John Diefenbaker.

He once said: "They criticized me sometimes for being too much concerned with the average Canadian. I can't help that, I'm just one of them." MR. GOGO: Mr. Speaker, I too am pleased to have the opportunity of participating in the throne speech debate. Like many other members, I was very impressed with the mover of the debate. I was particularly impressed with the empathy for his con­ stituents the hon. Member for Lesser Slave Lake seemed to indicate to this Assembly. That's probably the lesson most of us have to learn, Mr. Speaker: to have more empathy for our constituents and express them within the Assembly.

About a year ago, I stood up to speak on the throne speech debate. A member across the House indicated — in the manner they normally do — that I didn't know what I was talking about. On reflection, Mr. Speaker, I'm inclined to agree that I really didn't know. Now that I've had a year here, I hope I have some words of wisdom to offer the Assembly today. Mr. Speaker, I represent the constituency of Leth- bridge West, which happens to be part of Lethbridge, the third largest city in Alberta.

I have the opportunity and the responsibility of sharing that with the Member for Lethbridge East, who is also the Minister of Municipal Affairs. At this point, Mr. Speaker, I would like to indicate that in a year fraught with the perils of inflation, that could have led to frustration and confrontation, I think we owe a debt of gratitude for the fine way in which the new Minister of Municipal Affairs has carried out his portfolio in the interim. There are many poor working people in my constit­ uency, Mr. Speaker. After a year in this House, I am rapidly becoming one of them.

However, we do have our share of civil servants in the south. They tend to bring up that average. I note the number of civil servants in Alberta has increased — although maybe

March 15, 1976 ALBERTA HANSARD 179 not dramatically — 50 per cent since 1971, to 27,000. I know that most of them, in their hearts, try to put in a good day's work in the interests of all Albertans. However, there are times when I question that. Mr. Speaker, I also think the city of Lethbridge is not only cognizant of but very pleased with the co-operation they receive from this government. I know I don't seem to have the difficulty some members in this Assembly — particularly from the centre of the province — do.

When our mayor and council want to meet with ministers of the Crown, it's not difficult to get the mayor to meet with six or seven ministers in one day. I know there are other mayors who do have difficulty getting to meet semi-annually. Mr. Speaker, it wouldn't be fair to go on without mentioning an impression I've gathered in the past year regarding the news media. I don't intend anything detrimental, but it seems I'm made more aware daily that the newspapers seem to carry out the comment by Lord Thomson of Fleet.

On more than one occasion he has indicated that the definition of news is: that which you put in the paper between the want ads. It seems there are times when only bad news sells soap. The government has done good things that somehow, unfortunately, don't seem to get in print. In terms of the economy of Alberta, Mr. Speaker, I don't think I can lend any more to the debate than what has already gone on. I think we all know where Alberta stands in the eyes of the North American continent.

I do have some concern as a citizen of the nation that our standard of living in the past 10 years has fallen from second to eighth, that as of last week, we have the highest interest rates in the western world charged by our banking system. I commend the government if the intent is to stem inflation. Howev­ er, I don't believe that is the central government's intent. Being a man of the provincial House, I don't feel qualified to criticize the central government, although I make exceptions to that from time to time.

In a recent release by the Minister of Advanced Education and Manpower, I see that we in Alberta have an unemployment rate of 4 per cent — certainly the lowest in Canada — in a labor force of over 800,000. Mr. Speaker, no other province in the country could point to figures like that. I think the Government of Alberta, through its policies of diversi­ fication and incentives offered to business, is proving to be a work haven for Canadians who want to work and earn a dollar. I question whether the government should get all the credit for that.

I sincerely believe that the Government of Alberta is simply a reflection of the people of Alberta. It's the people of Alberta who need the credit more than the government. Mr. Speaker, I have a concern that in this day and age, it appears it's economic power that seems to speak in the world and indeed in Canada. I read the other day that the population of Alberta, based on a 30-year projection from 1974, will be 2.4 million in the year 2004. That's frightening, Mr. Speaker, when you consider that the population today of the city of Toronto is 2.6 million.

It makes me wonder if the traditional method of shared responsibility and representation by population is going to continue to be a valid method in Canada of determining our future many years down the road. Much has already been said, Mr. Speaker, about the heritage savings trust fund; and much more will be said in second reading of that bill and in committee. I would simply like to add that if we in Alberta, Canada, do not wish to make the mistake of Oklahoma in the United States of America, we'd better indeed have something like the Alberta heritage savings trust fund.

One of the key elements of that, of course, is irrigation, Mr. Speaker, which tends to affect that area of the province in which I live. It's only natural to make a comment about water. I read this in the morning's press, and I don't accept . . . [inaudible] . . . but I think, Mr. Speaker, that is valid. This was a comment made by a chairman of a seminar on water, sewage, and the environment — they tend to go together, I guess — in California just the other day. He was announcing that he had some good news and some bad news for the committee.

The good news was that by the year 1990 we would all be drinking sewage. The bad news, unfortunately, was that there wouldn't be enough to go around. An area that I think needs special mention, Mr. Speaker, is the area of housing. In figures published a week or 10 days ago, we see that housing in Alberta is up 52 per cent in the year 1975, a far cry from the federal position which was down 5 per cent in its projections for the same year. I think that's indicative, Mr.

Speaker, of the policy taken by the government and indeed, following through, by the appointment of the Minister of Housing, who has a reputation for carrying out policies once they're stated. I have some concerns about the price of land in Alberta, as I'm sure all members do. I am one of those who is not convinced that we should not have a land banking system. I think it's been proven that there are areas where, if you can control — when I say "you", that's government — up to 30 per cent of the land, you can have a definite impact on land prices.

I would point to the example of the city of Medicine Hat which, for all its shortcomings, has done a remarkable job in keeping down land prices, which are about one-fifth those of Edmonton and about one-half those of Lethbridge. In terms of construction, Mr. Speaker, in my constituency, that is the city of Lethbridge, we see that while 300 homes were built in 1971, in the year of '76 — the way they are projected, 1975 with 550, 1976, year to date if it's expanded six times for the balance of the year — there will be 750.

I think this is a direct reflection of the policies of the lender of last resort called the Alberta Housing Corporation. Incidentally, business assessments were mentioned the other day. I don't particularly like to quote figures, but I see from '71 to '79 the business and residential assessments have gone up from $65 million to $100 million in the city of Lethbridge. I do have some concerns, Mr. Speaker, about the direction our government has taken in terms of dollar bills. I would like to mention specifically the hospital and medical care area.

We in Alberta haven't closed a hospital, nor indeed is it the intent of the government to close a hospital. But we must be cognizant of the ever-increasing cost of running these institutions. I see in some figures released by the Department of Social Services and Community Health — figures that are somewhat alarming, but perhaps they're built into

180 ALBERTA HANSARD March 15, 1976 our tradition — that the average stay in hospital in all of Canada is somewhat lower than in the province of Alberta. In Canada the average stay is 7.85 days, and in Alberta about 9.62 days. We seem to lead all of Canada in the length of stay in hospital, which I think we can express in dollar bills, Mr. Speaker. Senior citizens seem to spend another two days in hospital compared to the other provinces. I would expect, Mr. Speaker, the new directions we're taking and the new thrust and emphasis we're putting into the nursing home program will undoubtedly alleviate that.

In terms of health delivery, I suppose we could not carry through the throne speech debate without the member who happens to sit on the health care commission making a comment or two. First of all, I'm much more cognizant of the problems in Alberta, both from the doctor point of view and the citizen point of view, in the area of health delivery regarding the doctors. I'm very concerned, however, that the number of claims that tend to arrive daily at the paying source — that's the health care commission — has changed from 19,000 a day in 1970 to 46,000 per working day just five years later in 1975.

It says something to me, Mr. Speaker: that we're either getting to be a rather sick society, physically — and I don't profess to speak for members of the Assembly — or we no longer seem to have a vested interest in the cost. I wonder, Mr. Speaker, how much longer we can carry on without having some form of utiliza­ tion fee in the province. People who have to pay something out of their pockets directly, as opposed to indirect taxation, maybe will not use the service so often. I'm sure much more of that will be mentioned when we get into the budget. In the social services area, Mr.

Speaker, we have, as near as I can count, 28,000 people on assistance. I'm sure most of us in the House feel empathy for those people. But within those figures, we find 3,000 or 3,100 employable people who do not work and are in receipt of assistance. I'm sure most members in the House would agree with me, Mr. Speaker, when I say that I have compassion for those in Alberta who work. I also have concern for those who don't work. But really, Mr. Speaker, I have nothing but contempt for those in Alberta who will not work. I do not believe the government owes anyone a living.

I do believe, however, that government has a responsibility to offer people the opportunity to earn a living. Education is mentioned in the Speech from the Throne, Mr. Speaker. We have, I suppose, the finest educational system in the country. As of 1975, we have a record second to none. In 1975 we're spending $1,130 per student in the school system. I'm not talking about $3,500 for the university student in Calgary, or $5,300 for the student at the University of Lethbridge, but $1,130 per student in our school system. Newfoundland is spending $440 per student.

I don't say that their costs are identical in terms of their busing problems. I don't know. I'm not qualified to say. One naturally begins to wonder if we're getting two to three times the product out of the system. Again, I'm not qualified to say. But, Mr. Speaker, how much is enough? It seems to me, as a father of five, my kids never have enough. Maybe they have enough education, but they don't seem to have enough other things. I wonder if the answer, as some people seem to think, is to pour money into the system with the view of getting a better product. I read, Mr.

Speaker, that in Canada we have 260,000 school teachers, but because of the pill and other factors they estimate that in 10 years we'll have 60,000 fewer teachers. There'll be a decrease of 60,000. Right away, Mr. Speaker, I'm led to wonder if the representations made by those in the educa­ tional field for a lower student-teacher relationship are [made] on the basis of better education or job security. I think perhaps down the road, Mr. Speaker, we'll be realizing whether the projections are, in fact, accurate. In the educational field, Mr.

Speaker, I have a major concern in that, in the city of Lethbridge, one Monday a month we have about 50 divorces. I understand that happens in Calgary four times a month. In Edmonton heaven only knows what happens. AN HON. MEMBER: It's daily. MR. GOGO: The number one cause of divorce, Mr. Speaker, is . . . MISS HUNLEY: Marriage. MR. GOGO: No, that's the number one cause of embarrassment . . . it's financial or economic, and yet it seems to me, Mr.

Speaker, that we go merrily along year after year, and teach nothing about economics in terms of buying daily goods, managing money, avoiding finance companies, and the rest. We tend to avoid that in our educational system year after year. It seems it's only when they hit the pitfall of paying 20, 22, 35, or whatever per cent interest, that they seem to learn. I question, Mr. Speaker, whether we are doing a job for our citizens, our youth, by not teaching them something about the handling of funds in the education process. I want to talk about agriculture, Mr.

Speaker, but I think there are those more qualified in the House than I, except to say that in the history of the world the most common occurrences in the last 6,000 years have been wars. The second most common occur­ rence has been that agriculture has fed that world. I don't want to say any more about it. After the weekend's incidents, it would be very difficult not to mention the Solicitor General's De­ partment, or indeed that of the Attorney General, and what I say is not necessarily favorable, Mr. Speaker.

Certainly, we are long past the day when we offer as a judge — and I don't make judgment on judges, except I recognize how many elections most of them lose — that the day of offering $30 or 30 days is long gone. That is the debtor prison system we inherited from the old country. If you don't have $30 there is no choice at all; it's automatically 30 days. So I certainly like the suggestion of the Solicitor General that we have that fine restitution option. We give a man who has made a mistake an opportunity to pay for that mistake in whichever way the court may see fit.

When the report comes out from the Solicitor General about the experimental project, I'll be inter­ ested to see how successful it has been. It's rather shocking, Mr. Speaker, to see we have 40 per cent of the people in jail as a result of non-payment of fines. I find that shocking. I thought

March 15, 1976 ALBERTA HANSARD 181 it was 40 per cent for drinking, but I find it shocking that it's for non-payment of fines. Each time I go camping, it seems I end up chopping my own firewood. The thought occurs to me, why don't we have a woodcutting course in our institutions? Then I wouldn't have to go without firewood when I camp. With the tabling of the Kirby commission we've learned from the Attorney General — and we debated it in the House — that the two areas not subject to the budgetary restraints are going to be the adminis­ tration of justice and the Solicitor General.

I'm sure all members of this House would agree that justice delayed is justice denied, and that plea bargaining is not a positive thing. It's an extremely negative thing, particularly when you're on the losing end. I'm a little concerned that we don't pay Crown prosecutors or Crown counsel $50,000 a year. But I'm told that's just a rumor, and you're not allowed to talk about rumors in this Assembly. One area of concern I have is the area of lotteries. Mr.

Speaker, I wouldn't buy a lottery ticket unless it's for a church bazaar, and I suppose that's the reason I was made the lottery chairman for the Canada Winter Games. But I get very uptight, Mr. Speaker, after the knowledge I've gained through lotteries, when I find that it's the poor little guy who can't afford the $10 or the $3 who ends up buying all these lottery tickets. We, as a government, the province of Alberta, not only condone it but we endorse it by participating. I think that's wrong. I wouldn't say the same thing about bingos, because Rome fell once, and we cer­ tainly don't want Rome to fall again.

In the area of transportation — I have lost track of the time, Mr. Speaker, so if you would remind me — I thought the Minister of Transportation spoke in such an eloquent way, as he normally does, about PWA that certainly no words would do for me. But in the area of transportation I get a little hung up when it costs me twice as much to see the capital of my country by air as it does to see the capital of England, which happens to be London.

Most members of the Assembly know the situation on freight rates, and I guess the question really is: what good are markets to us, as Albertans, if the transportation bleeds us dry in terms of our product by the time it gets there? The elevator operator was telling me that somebody coming up in the elevator this morning — I guess this comes under transportation — asked him, "What happens if the cable breaks? Do we go up or down?" And the operator said, "That depends on the type of life you've led." I think that's what happens to governments, Mr. Speaker.

It's the sort of life they lead that determines — as members across the aisle know. Under Utilities and Telephones, the only comment I have is that I get a little concerned when I see people making applications for interim increases which always seem to be granted. So three or six months later there seems to be another increase. The Member for Pincher Creek-Crowsnest men­ tioned the coal gasification. I understand Alberta has 80 per cent of all the coal in North America, or certainly in Canada. Last week the Member for Medicine Hat-Redcliff mentioned all the gas that was in the Medicine Hat area.

He was referring to the gas that was under the ground. We have gas in Lethbridge that is not all under the ground. And on occasion, Mr. Speaker, I have noticed some gas in this Assembly. Under Recreation, Parks and Wildlife — and the minister is in the House — I think the comments are particularly appropriate. We've seen [from] Parks Canada, as a result of the visitors falling from 21 million to 18 million, that is Canadians no longer going to those parks to the tune of 3 million of them in 1974, that the Government of Canada had the wisdom to lower the atrocious fees they were charg­ ing.

I would hope that the Government of Alberta, with its provincial park system, would recognize such factors as the family unit being the basis of our society, that going out camping is a healthy thing, and would avoid raising those charges to the point where, when we consider the price of gasoline to get there in the first place, it would prohibit them from going to the parks. My comments wouldn't be appropriate, Mr. Speak­ er, unless I mentioned culture.

I read the Auditor's report and the press, and it seems to me that an area that has long been neglected in Alberta has finally been receiving some of its just due through the minister responsible for culture. In my constituency we have an Italian-Canadian group that now numbers 1,000. They decided to build their own hall. They gathered among themselves $75,000, and the presi­ dent of that organization told me not a month ago that in many ways the department of culture of the Government of Alberta was responsible.

I, for one, would like to say that the enthusiasm displayed by the minister responsible for culture is felt throughout the province. It's made members and the public aware of their fellow man. A member from a rural area mentioned to me the other day that he lives in a town so small they have a Ukrainian as head of the local Mafia. If you can bring those people together, Mr. Speaker, I suggest the minister has done a tremendous job. I must make a comment regarding rent regulations and Consumer and Corporate Affairs. I don't believe the Department of Consumer and Corporate Affairs should be big brother.

I don't think that at all. I think it should be essentially helping to keep people honest. But I think its primary role, Mr. Speaker, is to inform the citizens through the information role of that department, and let them, and only them, make their own decisions and choices when they buy products. I don't think big brother should be telling them what they should or shouldn't do. But we've brought in rent regulations. We as a government have passed that bill. We said that justification for it was because we, in essence, had passed a wage control bill. Well, so be it.

But surely, if we're going to have that bill, Mr. Speaker, let us enforce it in this province. Let's not give it lip-service. Under Business Development and Tourism — I can't afford to be a tourist, so I'd like to make a comment about business development — it seems to me we have our share of the critics. Each time AOC lends money that doesn't result in a huge profit — indeed, it may result in a loss — there seems to be no end to critics. But Alberta was not built, Mr. Speaker, by people having money in the bank. It was built by risk-takers.

Indeed if Henry Ford, who once forgot to put a reverse gear in his car, had given up, half the members of this Assembly would be walking, which again may not be a bad thing.

182 ALBERTA HANSARD March 15, 1976 In conclusion, Mr. Speaker — and I recognize many members have been waiting for those words — I would like to comment first about the way I view the free-enterprise system. I believe the responsibility for economic growth and progress cannot be accomp­ lished by government alone, or any other single sector. The responsibility for our province's growth and improvement must be shared between the public and private spheres of society, embracing all levels of government, provincial, as well as municipal, as well as labor, and indeed business.

It should truly be a sharing of responsibility in every sense of the word. In our type of society, the maintenance of a climate conducive to orderly and vigorous economic growth requires the fullest understanding and co-operation among government, labor, and business. Unfortu­ nately, Mr. Speaker, too many people give little thought to what it takes to make a province pro­ sperous. Yet without a high level of prosperity, we would no longer be able to maintain the present high standard of living to which we have been accustomed.

Surely it is time that the people who run our governments — that's us — our labor, and business are made to realize that directly or indirectly the costs of running our services have to come from business. Let us beware, Mr. Speaker, that we do not kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. In the one minute left, I would simply like to conclude by saying I value the system and the quality of life we have, rather than the quality of pleasurable things we seem to get from it. I'm quite sure, Mr.

Speaker, that 22 million people living in Russia, Poland, China, or any other country under socialism or communism would gladly change places with 22 million Canadians. Yes, the freedom to act as one wishes, independ­ ence, and the right of man to make his own decisions, be they good or bad: [this] is the only way of life that can have lasting value and significance. The trouble is, Mr. Speaker, too many people take their freedoms and privileges for granted. Freedom was never intended to be free. It has a price tag, just as anything else worth while. That price tag can only be met, Mr.

Speaker, in terms of responsibilities and duties. What I believe we need in Alberta is a bill of duties to go along with our Bill of Rights. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. STROMBERG: Mr. Speaker, may I take this opportunity to express, on behalf of the people of the Camrose constituency, our sincere best wishes and congratulations to you, sir, for a job well done. A couple of weeks ago some of my constituents and I had the opportunity to view at first-hand the actions and antics of the members of the House of Commons. Mr. Speaker, that could best be described as a three-ring circus.

The decorum of your Assembly is really appreciated, sir. Also, Mr. Speaker, our best wishes to His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor, who has visited the rose constituency on numerous speaking engagements, and to the mover and seconder of the throne speech — especially the remarks made by the Member for Lesser Slave Lake about the unlimited coal resources just waiting to be mined in his constituency. Mr. Speaker, it has been tradition in the past that the throne speech offers the opportunity to an MLA to speak on his or her constituency.

Since time has not really afforded me the opportunity to get my message across to my colleagues, I would like to tell the Camrose story. My constituency, in the past four and a half years under this Conservative government, has witnessed unparalleled growth and prosperity not even equalled by the constituency of Barrhead. The diversification of jobs in our area has seen the city of Camrose's building permits rise from a value of $2.5 million in 1971 to $13.5 million in 1975. That's just a short span of four years, Mr. Speaker. AN HON. MEMBER: That's performance. MR. STROMBERG.

Every village and every town in the Camrose constituency has seen an increase in building permits and population. For example, in the village of Forestburg, building permits increased in four years from $42,000 to $1.164 million. The upsurge in our economy has been appreciated, and the appreciation was shown by the scarcity of votes for the other two political parties in the Camrose riding. [Mr. Speaker in the Chair] Mr.

Speaker, again speaking for my constituents, our sincere appreciation to those hardworking minis­ ters of the Crown, and to those ministers who have taken time off to visit the beautiful rose constituency. Mr. Speaker, I would like to point out that in the 12 months since the el