The House met at 1:33 p.m.

[The Speaker in the chair.]

Routine Business

Introductions by Members

Amna Shah : It is my honour to introduce the former MLA for Surrey-Whalley Bruce Ralston, who

is here with us in the chamber. Bruce is a respected leader whose dedication to public

service and our provincial community has made a lasting impact across British Columbia.

With 20 years of service as an MLA and also, I think, five years of service on Surrey

city council, Bruce is known for his integrity, his community-building and his desire

to create meaningful, positive change across this province.

He has earned the admiration of all of his colleagues and all those who’ve worked

with him. I have a special place in my heart for Bruce. He is my mentor. He is a guide

who helps me be the most effective advocate I can be for my community. It’s such a

pleasure to see him here today.

Will the House join me in making Bruce Ralston feel very welcome today.

Brennan Day : It’s my privilege today to introduce Trevor and Karen Stevenson and their son, Dash,

from the Comox Valley. They are extremely active in the agricultural community with

Comox Valley Farmers Institute.

Would the House make them, please, feel very welcome.

[1:35 p.m.]

Hon. Christine Boyle : I have three special guests to introduce and welcome today. Kevin Harding is the

director of innovation and safety policy within the Ministry for Housing, working

to advance affordable housing and keep B.C.’s technical safety system strong.

He’s joined by his wife, Ekaterina Kan, who is a deputy district registrar with the

Supreme Court of B.C. and who recently became a Canadian citizen; and her mother,

Yulia Kim, who’s visiting Canada for the first time and enjoying the beauty of our

province.

Please join me in welcoming them to the House today and on congratulating Ekaterina

on her Canadian citizenship.

Harman Bhangu : I know you’ve heard me speak a lot about my dad, but today my mom is in the House,

Jasvinder Bhangu. She’s the reason why I’m here — all her sacrifices and everything.

Mom, I thank you very much.

Also joining her is my wife, Courtney; my son, Bal Bhangu; and my daughter, Audriana. Me and my daughter, Audriana, had a great time

at the equestrian facility in my riding before we came over here yesterday. She loves

horses.

Would the House really make them feel welcome?

Hon. Adrian Dix : I’d like to extend a warm welcome to representatives that I think are in the Speaker’s

gallery, from Innergex Renewable Energy and representatives from the Stellat’en, from the Nadleh Whut’en, West Moberly and Westbank First Nations.

They’re here to discuss successful wind power projects, all majority, 51 percent,

First Nations–owned, selected from B.C. Hydro’s 2024 and 2025 calls for power. There

is a significant list, which I will share with Hansard and people who are here. But

we’re very honoured to have them here, and I look forward to meeting with them, as

do other members of the House, throughout the day.

Jody Toor : I don’t often get visitors, especially family or loved ones, but today is a very

special day. My parents are visiting, and they’re here watching question period for

the first time.

I just want to take a moment to express my gratitude for everything that you guys

have done for me, being my parents — your love, your support and your guidance. Especially

when I felt that I doubted myself, you guys were always there to support me. For that,

I am forever in gratitude and indebted to you guys. I want to thank you from the bottom

of my heart. There’s not enough words to describe the love I have for both of you.

Thank you for being amazing parents. I love you both.

Hon. Brittny Anderson : I had a fantastic meeting today, and I am pleased to introduce to the House representatives

from the Canadian Propane Association, an organization playing a vital role in advancing

cleaner, reliable and affordable energy across our country.

Their work supports communities, industries and innovation in sustainable fuel alternatives.

Their efforts highlight the importance of collaboration between government and industry

to achieve both environmental and economic progress.

Something that the House might not know is that if you switch from diesel to propane,

you save 40 percent on GHG emissions, which is really incredible.

Steve Kooner : I rise today to recognize two devoted parents, dentists Dr. Stalinjeet Gill and Dr.

Navpreet Gill, and their incredible team standing with them in support of their son

Gurmoh Gill. Gurmoh is here, along with their other child, as well.

They have walked all the way from Vancouver to the Legislature, step by step, to raise

awareness and support for their son Gurmoh, who is battling a rare and fast-progressing

neurodegenerative disease referred to as spastic paraplegia type 4, often referred

to as SPG4.

May the House please welcome them.

[1:40 p.m.]

Hon. Jodie Wickens : In the Legislature today is my favourite person, my best friend and my husband, Brian

Wickens. I’ve talked about him many times. He needs no introduction. People tell me

all of the time how amazing he is and how lucky I am to have him, and I believe them.

Will the House please join me in welcoming Brian Wickens to the House.

Larry Neufeld : My colleague from across the way beat me to it, but I would like to reiterate a welcome

for the Canadian Propane Association — Chris Crawford, Courtney Seir-Todd, Clint Hillman,

Kellen Foreman, Katie Kachur and Nancy Borden.

As we all know, propane is one of the cleanest-burning fuels available. And with world

events, certainly, there is a massive uptick in demand for the product. I believe

that British Columbia should be proud to be able to provide that very valuable fuel

to the world.

Please help me make them feel welcome.

Hon. Nina Krieger : Joining us in the gallery today are 45 students, grades 9 to 12, from Reynolds Secondary,

which is a school in my community well known far and wide for excellence in its robotics

club, band, sports and also as the former high school of Premier John Horgan.

I hope that all my colleagues can make our guests feel very welcome today.

Elenore Sturko : I want to join with the member for Richmond-Queensborough in welcoming Stalinjeet and Navpreet Gill and their son Gurmoh and his little sister,

who is five years old, to this Legislature.

As my colleague mentioned, they walked from Canada Place in Vancouver all the way

here this morning to the B.C. Legislature. I had the opportunity to join them on the

last leg of that journey from the Gurdwara Singh Sabha Sahib. It was a really meaningful

walk. Not only are they raising funds for their son who needs treatment of his rare

genetic disorder, but also they have identified other gaps for families who are experiencing

the same thing dealing with rare diseases.

I thank them so much for their advocacy. I thank them for their strength, for the

courage they’re showing. I encourage all British Columbians to help out if they can.

Would the House please join me in making them most welcome.

Sunita Dhir : Today in the gallery, I have some special guests. Without them, I would not be here,

literally. I have my parents. My dad, Dr. Prem Jethi, is a retired agriculture officer,

and my mom, Mrs. Surjit Kaur Jethi, is a retired principal of a high school. The values

that are needed for this job — kindness, service, hard work — are taught by my parents.

Along with them is my little sister, Monika Dhir, and my brother-in-law Sundeep Dhir.

Monika and Sundeep have been through thick and thin with me, and they have supported

every decision, right or wrong, that I have taken in my life. I’m very happy to see

them here today.

I welcome the House to make them feel very welcome.

Misty Van Popta : In the chamber today is MP Tako Van Popta, Member of Parliament for Langley Township–Fraser

Heights. Yes, we are extended family, but he’s clearly the more popular politician,

as I often get asked: “Are you related to Tako?” Somehow I don’t think he often gets

asked: “Are you related to Misty?”

He has been the federal shadow critic for Pacific Economic Development, often engaging

in businesses up and down the B.C. coast. As a lawyer by trade, he has recently been

assigned as chair of the Conservative task force on property rights.

A fantastic grandpa to my daughters, a great representative to Langley — will the

House please make him feel welcome.

Hon. Ravi Parmar : A couple of weeks ago I was at the Luxton Spring Fair, and I had a young 11-year-old

by the name of Jack Clifford walk up to me and say: “I know who you are, and I’m interested

in politics.” It’s almost a bit of a déjà vu because that’s kind of how my start in

politics started.

In the gallery, just from meeting him a week ago, is grade 11 student…. Sorry. He’s

11 years old, so he’s probably grade 5 or 6 at Centre Mountain Lellum Middle School,

with his dad, Carl.

[1:45 p.m.]

We just hung out over the lunch-hour. We got a chance to check out the chambers, to

go into your office, Mr. Speaker — a very clean office, I might add; well done — as

well as check out some other parts of the building. It melts my heart when young people

express an interest in politics, especially at the age of 11.

Will the House please join me in making Jack and his dad, Carl, feel very welcome today.

Lynne Block : I am delighted to introduce Ella Van Enter, my newest CA, who is beginning in June.

How much does she love the Legislature? Well, there was a newscast being filmed right in front of the Legislature, in front of the fountain. All of

a sudden, the camera got diverted because Ella’s fiancé was down on bended knee, asking for her hand in marriage. And she said yes.

Jennifer Blatherwick : I would like the House to make welcome Lorin Palat and Jenna Lamb. Please stand.

Lorin and Jenna are here today to watch me present a petition about dog and cat breeding

here in British Columbia. They are very keen grade 12 political science aficionados.

I think we all want to encourage that level of interest and engagement, so please

join me in welcoming them.

Larry Neufeld : For my second introduction, I do recognize that my colleague the Minister of Energy and Climate Solutions already introduced this group. However, the Innergex Renewable Energy group that is attending today has a dignitary with them that is from the beautiful riding

of Peace River South.

I would like the House to help me make him feel welcome, Chief Roland Willson from the West Moberly First Nations.

Mable Elmore : In the gallery today, we have students from the Reynolds Secondary School flexible studies program visiting the Parliament Buildings as part of an educational project facilitated by the legislative internship program: legislative interns Bethany Shymko, Priya Minhas, Jenna Inch and Keira Emes, together with the flexible studies teacher Brad Cunningham, who has been supporting students in a model parliament and learning more about democracy in British Columbia.

Can you please join me in making the students and their teacher feel very welcome.

Sheldon Clare : Visiting us today from the wonderful borough of Quesnel in Prince George–North Cariboo is my constituency assistant Adam Schaan, who’s joining us in the gallery here today. Adam provides invaluable assistance,

making me look absolutely fantastic, and occasionally listening to my lyrics and pre-screening them before I sing them in the House.

Would you all please join in making Adam feel very welcome.

Stephanie Higginson : We must be near the end of session with all these family members in the House. I am

so pleased to have two people visiting who are not my constituents but they’re my

people: my parents are here. My stepdad, Len, and my mom, Susan — look, he’s trying to get my mom to stand up; she won’t. That’s Len, beside him

is Susan, and they are the best parents and also the best campaign volunteers anyone

can ask for.

Thank you for coming. Thank you for everything you do so that I can be down here.

Kristina Loewen : Well, I’m really glad that my daughter is here because with all these family members,

if she wasn’t, I think I’d be feeling a little bit lonely.

So would the House please help me to welcome my daughter, Brielle Loewen. Brielle is an incredible girl. She’s beautiful, she’s funny as heck, she’s smart,

and she keeps me going. She’s my biggest cheerleader and encourager, and she’s actually an inspiration to me. For those of you who followed

our story a little bit, she has been through a lot of struggles. But she is doing

so well, and I couldn’t be more proud of her.

Please join me in welcoming her.

Ian Paton : Being the last week here of our spring session, I’m really pleased to have my beautiful wife, Pam, join me for a couple of days. With her are our good friends, from Tsawwassen, Roy and Monica Toigo.

Please make them feel welcome.

[1:50 p.m.]

Peter Milobar : I’m mindful that all these introductions are chewing into my estimates time this afternoon.

The Finance Minister looks very happy.

I wasn’t sure whether it would be three or four days earlier or one day late with

this, but it was my oldest granddaughter Zoey’s fourth birthday yesterday.

Will the House please help me wish her a happy birthday.

Members’ Statements

Girmitiya Remembrance Day

Garry Begg : On the 14th day of May, I was honoured to join members of the Fiji Canada Association

in their hall in Surrey celebrating together Girmit Day. The government of British

Columbia officially proclaimed May 14 as Girmitiyas Remembrance Day to honour the historical contributions and resilience of indentured

Indian labourers, the Girmitiyas, particularly those who migrated to Fiji.

Girmit refers to contracts under which tens of thousands of Indians were transported

by the British Empire between 1834 and 1920 to work on sugar plantations in Fiji.

May 14 marks the 1879 arrival of the Leonidas , the first ship carrying indentured labourers.

We gathered to honour the history, courage and legacy of the Girmitiyas, the men,

women and children who left their homeland under the indenture system and journeyed

across oceans in search of a better future. The word “girmit” comes from the mispronunciation

was far more than a contract. It was a story of sacrifice, hope, resilience.

Beginning in the late 19th century, thousands of Indians were taken to countries such

as Fiji, Guyana, Trinidad, Mauritius and South Africa to work on plantations. They

endured separation from their families, difficult working conditions and uncertainty

about their future. Yet despite these challenges, they preserved their culture, language,

faith, music and traditions.

Girmit is not only a remembrance of suffering. It’s also a celebration of endurance

and achievement. It reminds us all of the importance of unity, dignity, equality and

human rights. It teaches, I hope, future generations to value freedom, opportunity

and cultural heritage.

May we always remember their journey, honour their legacy and inspire future generations

to build a world rooted in justice, understanding and peace.

Chilliwack Hospice Society

Á’a : líya Warbus : Since 1986, Chilliwack Hospice has walked with people through their most difficult

moments. While no one can truly be prepared for the phases of life we must all face,

Chilliwack Hospice provides services to those dying, their loved ones and the resulting

grief, walking with families step by step so no one has to navigate this process alone.

Some of the most essential parts of health care aren’t delivered in a hospital wing.

They’re delivered in available side rooms, someone’s home and school hallways by charities

that stretch every dollar to meet a need that keeps on growing.

The philosophy at Chilliwack Hospice is simple yet profound: holistic, compassionate

care that treats each person with distinct dignity so they can live fully to their

last moments and loved ones can support their family members without the added stress.

These volunteers sit bedside in hospice, visit people in their home and offer caregiver

circles, vigils and relaxation treatments that help people breathe again when the

world feels as though it is falling in on itself.

My own family has felt the care in our time of need when grief has become all too familiar yet all-consuming. Chilliwack Hospice Society offered the

kind of counselling and community that carried us when we could not see our way forward.

The grief groups and counsellors were willing to work with us where we were at. They

were willing to partner and adapt to traditional customs to create space that invites

people in, reducing barriers so we could learn from each other every single step of

the way.

[1:55 p.m.]

To the staff and the volunteers and the donors, all of the partners of Chilliwack Hospice Society, thank you. You create a culture of care to provide a critical service that, unfortunately,

at one time or another, we all need — one conversation, one vigil, one walk at Sardis

Park at a time. On behalf of the people of Chilliwack–Cultus Lake, please accept our gratitude and please know that your quiet, steady work is changing

lives.

Artificial Intelligence

Infrastructure and Investment

Rohini Arora : There has been a growing discussion about AI data centres being developed here in

British Columbia, including projects connected through the federal government partnerships

with private companies as part of building Canada’s sovereign AI infrastructure. The

federal government is positioning this as an important economic opportunity for the

future. There is no question that AI and digital infrastructure will be part of Canada’s

long-term competitiveness, but we also need to be clear about what that means for

British Columbians.

These facilities require significant electricity, major infrastructure investment

and substantial water and land use. That raises real questions about energy capacity,

affordability, environmental impact and the pressures placed on local communities

here in B.C.

There is also an important national interest at stake. Building sovereign AI capacity

here in Canada helps ensure that Canadian data research and critical digital infrastructure

are not left vulnerable to the laws or political decisions of foreign governments,

including countries like France. We’ve seen them move aggressively to protect their

own digital sovereignty, and Canada should be thinking carefully about this as well.

That’s why the federal government has a responsibility to ensure that these projects

deliver real benefits back to the communities that host them.

If we are going to build and host this level of industrial-scale digital infrastructure

in B.C., then a portion of the value created should be reinvested locally. That could

mean supporting renewable energy expansion here in B.C., investing in infrastructure

that growing communities depend on and advancing Indigenous rights and reconciliation

through meaningful partnerships, economic participation and long-term community benefits.

We can stay open for business and continue attracting investment into Canada’s digital

future, but we cannot do it at the expense of working people, Indigenous communities

or the environment. The federal government has a chance to lead in a way that is responsible,

balanced and fair, and British Columbians will expect nothing less.

Abbotsford Blueberry Farms

Bruce Banman : Today I rise to talk about one of Abbotsford South’s finest exports, one of British Columbia’s great agricultural treasures and one

of the most versatile foods you can find. I’m talking, of course, about blueberries.

Now, blueberries may seem small, but they’re mighty. You can put them in pancakes,

muffins, smoothies, pies, jams, salads, sauces, yogurts, oatmeal, ice cream or simply

eat them by the handful while pretending you’re only going to have one.

Abbotsford blueberries are not just a snack; they are what and part of who we are.

Our community is known as the Berry Capital of Canada, and that title was built on

generations of hard-working families. These growers are up early; working long days;

managing weather, labour challenges, rising costs and marketing pressures — all to

produce a crop that is enjoyed here at home and around the world.

British Columbia is known for its highbush blueberries, and depending on the season,

you may find varieties such as Duke, Blue Crop, Draper, Liberty, Elliott, Aurora and

Calypso. Each has its own flavour, timing and purpose, from sweet fresh eating to

baking, freezing and processing.

They are also good for you. Blueberries are high in fibre, rich in antioxidants and

linked to benefits for heart health, brain health and overall wellness. In other words,

this may be one of the rare times where you can taste something that tastes fantastic

and is actually good for you.

In Abbotsford South, blueberry farms support local jobs, suppliers, processors, markets,

tourism and roadside stands. They also bring people together through events like Berry

Fest where our community celebrates the farmers, families and flavours that make Abbotsford

so special.

All the good news is that the blueberry season is just around the corner. Fresh B.C.

blueberries are usually at their best in the summertime months, especially in July

and August. This year, farmers are expecting a bunker crop, so I encourage everyone

to come on out to Abbotsford. Bring the family to a U-pick, stop at a roadside stand,

fill a bucket, fill your freezer, and support our local farmers right here at the

source. Small berry, big impact, very Abbotsford.

[2:00 p.m.]

Airport Workers Day

George Anderson : I rise today to recognize Airport Workers Day and the more than 224,000 dedicated

professionals who form the backbone of Canada’s aviation sector.

Here in British Columbia, our airports are economic engines and strategic gateways

connecting our communities, our businesses and province to the world.

From Vancouver International Airport on Sea Island to Nanaimo, Kelowna, Prince George

and airports across this province, tens of thousands of skilled professionals show

up every single day to keep British Columbia moving. At YVR alone, 28,000 people come

to work each day, supporting 115,000 jobs across the province and contributing $13.5

billion to B.C.’s GDP annually.

In my own region, Nanaimo Airport, YCD, has an economic impact of $31 million and,

together with its partners, employs more than 200 people.

These are not small numbers. They reflect the extraordinary economic impact that airport

workers carry every day on behalf of every British Columbian. Airport workers represent

a diverse workforce across the aviation system, from engineers and technicians to

ground crews, cargo handlers, emergency responders, security staff, customer service

teams and logistics specialists. They support every stage of airport and air travel

operations.

They are also helping drive the digital innovation, sustainability work and operational

excellence that keep Canadian aviation safe, reliable and world-class. As B.C. navigates

shifting global trade realities, airport workers are on the front lines, ensuring

British Columbia is competitive, connected, resilient and ready for the future.

Today I ask this House to join me in recognizing airport workers across British Columbia

and Canada and in thanking them for their professionalism, dedication and the pride

they bring to their work every single day. Our province is stronger because of you.

Rolling Barrage Ride

and Events to Support

Mental Health of First Responders

Misty Van Popta : The topic that I am going to speak about today is something of national interest but

with a local flair.

In 2016, Scott Casey, a retired infantryman with the Royal Canadian Regiment, envisioned

an event he called The Rolling Barrage: Coast to Coast Ride to Combat PTSD, a charitable

motorcycle ride. This event was designed to bring together veterans and first responders

from across Canada to raise awareness around trauma and mental health for those who

serve and have served.

This is a 10,000 kilometre ride, starting with a tire dip in the Atlantic Ocean and

leaving Newfoundland on July 31; 135 riders will travel across Canada and finish the

ride in my hometown, the township of Langley, on August 22.

Langley has embraced this event, and on its tenth anniversary year, it is stepping

up to host three different fundraisers. The Langley RCMP and both the Langley city

and township firefighters are also engaged in this fantastic event. With the help

of our local champion, RCMP constable Dennis Bell, it is sure to be another great

year of community supporting first responders.

We all understand the impacts and reality of PTSD that first responders and military

men and women experience. Their careers put the lives and safety of everyday British

Columbians ahead of their own lives and safety. Events like this are important to

keep highlighting an often invisible condition.

This year, B.C. stops will be made in Cranbrook and Princeton, and it ends in Aldergrove.

If you are in those communities on August 20, 21 and 22, please cheer on these brave

riders. If you can’t attend, consider attending a local fundraiser at one of Langley’s

best establishments, the Barley Merchant, on May 27 or at our local legion on May

30 and July 4.

We all know and love a police officer, a military personnel member, a search and rescue

member, a paramedic or a firefighter. Supports to their mental health is of the utmost

importance.

To all the riders in this year’s event, we wish you fun, safety and camaraderie. Godspeed.

Point of Order

(Speaker’s Ruling)

The Speaker : Hon. Members, on Tuesday, May 19, the member for Skeena raised a point of order regarding

comments made by the Premier during oral question period earlier that day. The Government

House Leader made a submission on the point of order at the end of the sitting day

on Thursday, May 21. The Chair took the matter under advisement, has had an opportunity

to review the Hansard transcript and now is prepared to rule on the point of order.

[2:05 p.m.]

The member for Skeena submitted that the Premier misled the House through his comments.

As the Chair noted in a ruling delivered on April 20, such an allegation is extremely

serious, and the Chair must examine any evidence that proves that the statement was

misleading, that establishes that the member — in this case, the Premier — making

the statement knew at the time that the statement was incorrect and that establishes

that the member intended to mislead the House in making the statement.

Based on the submissions made to the Chair, that high threshold of evidence has not

been met in the matter at hand. At the heart of the matter is a dispute on the characterization

and

interpretation of words spoken by the Premier, which are not, by their nature,

unparliamentary. The member for Skeena felt that those words were a mischaracterization

and took the opportunity to correct the record through her point of order.

The submissions of the member for Skeena and the Government House Leader point to

what appears to be a matter of debate, which is not for the Chair to wade into. The

Chair has no further remedy to offer and therefore deems the matter closed.

As the House enters its final sitting week this spring, the Chair implores all members

to be mindful of the language they use in this House and to be respectful toward one

another in the course of debate.

Oral Questions

Early Childhood Educators in Sooke

Reann Gasper : School district 62 is proposing to cut early childhood educators across the district.

The president of the Canadian Union of Public Employees: “When you remove even one

line of connection between a student and a trusted adult in their school, you make

it harder for every other student to find safe places and supportive spaces to learn.”

My question is to the Minister of Education. Why are children losing vital classroom

supports while this government continues to claim education is a priority?

Hon. Lisa Beare : I want to thank the member for the question. We’ve been very clear on this side of

the House that protecting education, public education, is a top priority for us. That’s

reflected in the budget that you have before us this year.

In light of incredibly difficult financial circumstances, we made the decision as

a government to continue to invest and increase investments in public education. This

is significant.

The member well knows that local boards make local decisions, and so these are conversations

to have with the local board. But we at the province are going to continue year after

year to invest in public education, as we have done over the last nine years, because

we value it.

The Speaker : The member has a supplemental.

Reann Gasper : Eleven kindergarten classes will suffer the loss of these vital supports.

The Minister of Forests was a school trustee and a chair of this school district.

Will the minister stand up for his young constituents and guarantee that these educators

won’t be cut?

Hon. Lisa Beare : I know that the Minister of Forests, as well as every member on this side of the House,

values public education.

That’s the reason why one of the very first things we did when we became government

was put a billion dollars into the system. That additional billion dollars, plus increases

in the education budget year over year every year that we have been in government,

shows how much we value public education.

We know that budgets are a difficult time for everyone — for here in the province,

for local school boards. These are decisions that are made at the local level, and

the member’s community should be talking to their local school board.

We on our side will continue to invest, like we did this year.

[2:10 p.m.]

Education Assistant Funding

in K-to-3 Classrooms

Á’a:líya Warbus: Education is a vital part, and we value education on this side of the House just as

much as every other parent in British Columbia. It has been two years since this government

promised an educational assistant in every kindergarten-through-grade-3 classroom.

Since then, we’ve seen school districts like Surrey be forced to let education assistants

go, instead of hiring them.

My question is very simple. Why is the Minister of Education allowing kids to age

out, and when will she deliver on this government’s promise to have an educational

assistant in every single British Columbian classroom?

Hon. Lisa Beare : I want to thank the member for the question, because we know how important the work

that our EAs do in classrooms every single day, which is why we increase public funding

for education year over year so that districts have the tools they need.

We know that this is a difficult budget year all around, for everyone. In light of

that, our government chose to invest in public education, and we increased our budget,

which went directly to districts. Districts are making decisions at the local level,

and I know the member knows that.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Shhh.

Hon. Lisa Beare : Those conversations should happen at the local level. We, on our side, continue to

invest and continue to support the work that’s happening within the ministry and our

K-to-12 workforce to increase EAs in classrooms.

The Speaker : The member has a supplemental.

Á’a : líya Warbus : This is a government that has consistently overpromised and underdelivered, and this

time they’re doing it on the backs of our kids. Let’s take a look at what the B.C. federation of teachers has got to say about this budget. They called it a maintenance budget for public

education. They say that the figures that the minister is doing victory laps on right

now actually reflect student enrolment estimates and the rising number of students

with complex needs.

We have some of the fastest-growing school districts in British Columbia right now,

and this budget is not going to cut it. Instead of funding supports for students in

need, this minister has signed off on 26 percent raises for superintendents, with

car allowances.

Tammy Murphy, president of CUPE 728, said: “We’re still behind the ball. I don’t even

see how they can catch up.”

My question is very simple. Will the minister just admit that the NDP never intended

to follow through on their campaign promise to have K-to-3 classrooms in British Columbia

have an education assistant in every single one of them? If you are going to fulfil

that promise, can I have the date today?

Hon. Lisa Beare : I want to thank the member for the question. It gives me a chance to let the member

know that we have over 80 percent of our K-to-3 classrooms that have an EA in them

now.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Shhh. Shhh.

Hon. Lisa Beare : We are continuing to work with our K-to-12 workforce table to increase the amount

of EAs and to fulfil those commitments.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Members.

Hon. Lisa Beare : We did significant work over this past year. As well, the member may know, in the

teachers collective agreement, additional supports were provided for things like learning assistance resource teachers, increased supports in counselling. These sorts of things are being invested in by

our government.

Local decisions, including executive compensation, are made at the local level, and

the member should be having the conversation with their school board about that. Our

priority is going to be to continue to invest in education, which we’ve been doing

year over year.

Disability Assistance Rates

Jeremy Valeriote : Here’s a sampling of pleas we’re hearing from British Columbians with disabilities,

for the record. “In B.C., being disabled and unable to work is punishable by neglect

and deep poverty which can lead to death,” and: “We are beyond desperate.”

Disability assistance rates in British Columbia are still $1,000 per month below the

poverty line and under CARGA, the 2025 cooperation agreement, this government committed

to review these rates and make recommendations for future increases.

[2:15 p.m.]

A year into that agreement, that review hadn’t even begun. If it’s okay with the minister,

please, can we skip the part about how it’s our fault because we walked away from

CARGA? Making progress on basic dignity for persons with disabilities should never

have hinged on having two Green members constantly asking when. It’s reasonable to

expect that work to have continued.

Is this government unable or unwilling to raise rates without constant pressure from

two members of this Third Party?

Hon. Sheila Malcolmson : Thank you very much to the member for giving the opportunity to talk about the work

that we have been able to do.

Guided by our poverty reduction strategy, throughout the course of that work, income assistance rates have gone up 74 percent

in British Columbia. We’ve also increased earning exemptions three times and invested

considerably into designing the kind of employment programs that meet people where

they are so that they can lift income in addition to assistance rates so that they can also be supported to do work

that’s meaningful in their communities.

We know that both of these supports and both of these investments are important. I

am grateful to the work of the Third Party for accelerating our implementation of

changing the spousal rule — something that the disability community had long called for. That also included raising

earning exemptions so that people can keep more of their earned income in addition

to having the supports of income and disability assistance.

That work is vitally important. It’s work that we’re committed to do and will continue

to do.

The Speaker : Member, supplemental.

Jeremy Valeriote : We’re used to hearing what used to happen under the battle days, nine to 25 years

ago, but the rates haven’t been raised across the board in five years, despite rampant

inflation.

Adequately supporting persons with disabilities isn’t

an act of charity; it’s a necessity.

This is who we are. When we lift up those who need it most, everyone benefits, and

British Columbia is stronger — less pressure on our health care system, greater community

connection, larger workforce, less spent on policing.

British Columbians are struggling to pay for life’s basic necessities. People are

skipping meals to pay their rent, choosing between filling prescriptions and filling

the fridge.

I didn’t hear an answer from the minister, so I’ll ask again. When will the review

of social assistance and disability rates committed to in 2025 be made public, and

when will she raise the rates?

Hon. Sheila Malcolmson : The consultation that we did with people across British Columbia — over 10,000 inputs

that we got over the two years that we gathered advice from people about how they

wanted to build supports for people with disabilities and people who need income assistance,

people experiencing poverty — is what set the course.

With respect to the Green Party, we take our instructions from people with lived experience.

And 75 percent of the people that participated in that public consultation were people

with lived experience of poverty. That is being implemented across government. That’s

why we protected low-cost child care. That’s why we’ve made prescription birth control

free. That’s why we’ve had zero-interest student loans. That’s why we’ve protected

the B.C. family benefit.

Across every ministry, you’ll see investments in people that are tackling the terribly

increased cost of living because of global inflation and chaos south of the border.

That’s work that we’ll continue to do in every corner of our government on this side

of the House.

Funding for Neurodegenerative

Disease Treatment

Steve Kooner : This government talks about doing the work, but British Columbians are being left

behind in services, effective services, in this province.

I’m just going to show one example right now. Gurmoh, a three-year-old, is suffering from a rare and fast-progressing neurodegenerative

disease called spastic paraplegia, type 4 — SPG4. The family was told by the Health Minister’s own chief of staff that the ministry

had reviewed all available funding streams and that there was “nothing available”

to help their child get access to life-saving treatment. Gurmoh’s condition is worsening by the day and could leave him paralyzed and in unimaginable

pain, yet his parents are being forced to fight both the disease and the system.

This is a complete shame because the parents up there are practising dentists. They have been servicing our health system, in this province.

But now they’re being left behind.

The Speaker : Question, Member.

[2:20 p.m.]

Steve Kooner : Why is this NDP government telling desperate parents that there is nothing available, instead of exhausting every possible option to save this

little boy’s future?

Hon. Josie Osborne : I want to welcome the Gill family to the gallery today, and I’m looking forward to

having my own personal opportunity to meet with them later this afternoon.

I think we’ve all been very deeply moved by the journey that the Gill family is undertaking

to do something that we know that every parent in British Columbia who has a child

suffering from a rare disease or an ultra-rare disease, as is in this case…. It is

going to take every effort they possibly can, and we want to be there to support them

in every way that we can too.

That’s why I directed my staff, upon learning about this, to meet with the researcher

at McGill University. They have done that to understand the type of infrastructure

that is required, the type of research and processes that are required to bring in

specific gene editing therapies. We are making remarkable advances in medicine and

in research every single day. They provide the promise of hope, but we have to go

through the steps in developing this, and that’s why the ministry has undertaken that.

Further, the officials at the ministry have met with officials in the province of

Quebec to understand what kind of interprovincial partnerships are possible in standing

up the infrastructure for this very, very specific type of gene editing therapy that

is needed.

Of course, everybody wants to do everything that is possible to help this young child

and provide the promise of hope for other families whose children are suffering from

conditions like this. Again, I look forward to meeting with the Gill family and doing

everything we can.

The Speaker : Member, supplemental.

Steve Kooner : It’s a shame. The family is up in the crowd right here in the gallery, and this minister

said that she’s looking forward to the family making every effort to meet their needs.

The government should be taking leadership here. The government should be taking leadership.

The family is in the gallery, and they’re racing against time to secure $8 million

for gene therapy treatment. The federal government has $1.4 billion in a national

rare disease funding strategy available.

Where is this government? Will the minister commit to intervene and immediately explore

emergency funding so Gurmoh can have a fighting chance, yes or no?

Hon. Josie Osborne : Let me be very clear. I think the member understands that is not what I said. I said

that our ministry is doing everything that we can to support this moving forward and

undertaking the work that’s required.

Interjection.

The Speaker : Shhh.

Hon. Josie Osborne : All parents, all people are going to want to do everything that we can. I want to

be very clear though. Gene editing therapy is a developing technology. It is very

specific to an individual. Unfortunately, unlike some other diseases, there is not

one pharmaceutical…

Interjection.

The Speaker : Member.

Hon. Josie Osborne : …there’s not one drug that can be instantly provided overnight. It will take some

time.

That’s why ministry officials have met with the McGill University researcher…

Interjections.

The Speaker : Shhh.

Hon. Josie Osborne : …to understand the investment and the time that’s required to stand up the very specific

infrastructure required for gene editing therapy.

Interjection.

The Speaker : Member. Member, wait for your turn.

Hon. Josie Osborne : But I also want to clear the record and correct it. The expensive drugs for rare diseases

and the bilateral agreement that we have with the federal government for $194 million

over three years is for pharmaceuticals and for therapies that are already developed,

that are already approved by Health Canada and that have gone through the approvals

process at the Canadian Drug Agency. This is a very different type of experimental

therapy.

Interjection.

The Speaker : Shhh.

Hon. Josie Osborne : Again, we have met with the researcher. Our officials have met with the government

of Quebec. They have met with the family. I will do so this afternoon so that we can

understand everything in the realm of possibility.

Broadway Transit Project

Traffic Diversion Impacts

Harman Bhangu : Businesses between Cambie and Alberta Street are preparing for the worst. The executive

director of the Cambie Village Business Association, which represents 400 businesses,

said: “The small, independent restaurants and retailers will be struggling.”

[2:25 p.m.]

When you divert traffic, you divert everything. Businesses are paying the price because

of this government’s failure to build projects on time.

My question to the Minister of Jobs: if he won’t help these businesses, will the Minister

of Housing stand up for businesses in her community which have been abandoned by the

minister?

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I appreciate the question from the member. I’m happy to respond on the initiatives

that the ministry has undertaken while this project has been underway to ensure a

minimum of inconvenience as possible to the businesses that he’s talking about in

the area.

By the very fact that there is traffic diversion taking place…. The work was done

with traffic engineers, with the city of Vancouver, with the local businesses to understand

exactly the challenges that they’re facing. I can tell the member that, without that

rerouting that’s taking place, the inconvenience would last for twice as long.

The reality is that those decks have to be removed and the underground infrastructure

replaced. That work is underway. The time period is being reduced from 14 months down

to six months. That’s a significant improvement.

At the same time, working with the businesses to ensure that the rerouting is done

in a way that allows for things such as parking to be taken into account, ways in

which we can improve that…. At the same time, pedestrian access is still there, in

place, so that pedestrians can go to the businesses impacted. The critical thing is

to get it done as quickly as possible, and that’s what these changes and the rerouting

will do.

The Speaker : Member, supplemental.

Harman Bhangu : Clearly, the minister forgets their promise of this. It was supposed to help with

FIFA traffic.

Months of lost customers, blocked access and empty storefronts are pushing small businesses

to the brink. We have already seen a bike shop and a grocery store close their doors.

The government stood by while these businesses were left to absorb the losses.

My question to the Minister of Jobs: how many more businesses have to fail before

this government admits to abandoning these communities?

The Speaker : Before I recognize the minister, I want to caution the member for Surrey North not to use electronics during the question period.

Hon. Mike Farnworth : This government has never abandoned communities and will always stand up for communities

every single time. That’s why we work with the business communities when traffic rerouting

has to take place.

We will continue to do that, whether it’s through the Jobs Ministry, through my ministry,

or the Ministry of Municipal Affairs and Housing. It’s working with the businesses

that are impacted to develop ways in which the impacts are mitigated. The ministry

is working to be able to provide alternative routes of access for them. That’s what

we are going to continue to do, and that’s what we will always do.

Provincial Sales Tax

and Support for Small Business

Gavin Dew : The CFIB has said, “When we talk to small businesses around the province, one thing

is clear. The cost of doing business is too high. When costs go up for small businesses,

prices go up for everyday people, and jobs are put at risk.”

B.C. has already lost more than 40,000 jobs so far this year. When will this government

stop ignoring small businesses and reverse their poorly timed PST expansion?

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : The member and I canvassed this, as well, during estimates. It’s vitally important

that we continue to support small businesses.

We know, due to global uncertainty that we’re dealing with right now due to the war,

that we’re seeing fuel prices push up, having a real impact on our businesses, and

then you add, on top of that, tariffs. It is a bit of a perfect storm.

Despite the challenges, we still continue to be leaders in this province, leading

the country both in investments into our province and GDP growth.

I met with the BIAs this morning, and we had an important conversation about things

that they’re hearing from the front lines. What they’re hearing is that they continue

to need skilled people. That’s why this budget is doubling the funding for trades

training so that we can have people skilled up to take the employment opportunity.

[2:30 p.m.]

They’re seeing $88 billion of potential investment coming to this province, which

means a lot of economic activity. They see the positive side of that. They want to

see more supports to protect storefronts from vandalism. The $16 million in this budget

to support communities and, in particular, target repeat offenders is welcomed.

We’re going to continue to do the work to support small businesses because they are

vital for the success of this province.

The Speaker : Member has a supplemental.

Gavin Dew : This government continually points to geopolitics and to a small business tax cut

almost a decade ago, which was worth, at most, $2,500 for a qualifying small business.

But $2,500 doesn’t come close to offsetting the costs this government has piled on

— higher payroll costs, carbon costs, property costs, insurance costs, more red tape,

rising costs from the public safety crisis, growing uncertainty around land title

and now a PST expansion on services that businesses rely on.

Why does this government continue ignoring the real-world cost burden that is forcing

small businesses to shut down, sell out or leave B.C.?

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : B.C. has one of the lowest small business taxes in the country. The member talks about

cutting red tape — as he says, increasing red tape. That’s not factually true. We

have made the largest reduction of red tape in the country’s history by removing interprovincial trade barriers for goods to be sold. Let me repeat that again: the largest red tape

reduction in Canada’s history — significant.

We’ve heard from the restaurant industry that they needed to get alcohol costs lowered,

so we sell alcohol to small business restaurants right now at wholesale price. We

heard from them that they need skilled, trained-up professionals to be able to take

employment opportunities. We doubled the budget for skills training in this province.

We heard that we needed to reduce permitting times. We put investments into that.

We’re seeing investments come online to this province.

We’re going to continue this work. There are a lot of small businesses across the

province. They vary in different sectors. We continue to meet with them. We continue

to find innovative ways to reduce barriers so they can be successful. Their success

is our success.

Correspondence with Vancouver

City Council on Natural Gas

Heating Policy for New Housing

Trevor Halford : May 19, the Minister of Housing decided to send a letter to the mayor of Vancouver

on an issue before them, and we learned that the mayor of Vancouver quickly fired

off his own letter back to the minister.

He says: “It reads like an eleventh-hour attempt to intervene in an active Vancouver

city council debate on energy choice and affordability.” He goes on to say: “You are

advocating that the Vancouver council not pass a motion that would improve housing

affordability and energy choices for residents.”

What’s interesting about the letter that was sent out by the Minister of Housing is

neither the Ministry of Energy nor the Premier were copied on it.

My question is a direct one to either the Premier or the Minister of Energy. Did they

know about this correspondence and direction from the Minister of Housing to the city

of Vancouver?

Hon. Adrian Dix : Yes.

Trevor Halford : Well, that’s just perfect.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Shhh. The member has the floor.

Trevor Halford : We’ve got a Minister of Energy and a Premier and maybe some other selective members

of that cabinet that are talking daily about their championship for LNG and, potentially,

a phase 2 investment. So this minister and this Premier….

The Minister of Energy signs off on a letter from the Minister of Housing interfering

in a council decision about banning natural gas. In what world does that make sense

that you have a Minister of Energy that thinks it’s okay for us to interfere in a

council decision that bans natural gas?

My question is to the Minister of Housing. Does she impose her will to ban natural

gas in homes while her government champions natural exports?

[2:35 p.m.]

Interjections.

The Speaker : Shhh. Members, the minister has the floor.

Hon. Adrian Dix : The member seems to have missed, in his description of events, the decision on May

1 by the five joint-venture partners to invest hundreds of millions of dollars in

LNG Canada 2, an announcement made by the Premier, with the head of LNG Canada and

the federal minister of energy and mines. The fact of the matter is that our approach

focuses, yes, on clean energy in British Columbia because it’s fundamentally important

and it’s a huge advantage in B.C.

We have announced — and no questions from the hon. members about this, but they’re

opposed to — 14 clean energy projects in B.C. They’re opposed to them while complaining

that there’s not enough electricity. They’re opposed to the North Coast transmission

line. And they are talking about the government’s record of LNG, which, I will remind

the hon. member, is six projects, either completed, under construction or approaching

final investment decision. That’s six compared to zero for all the years before that.

So you bet, in British Columbia, we support clean energy. You bet, through our CleanBC

plan, we’re making improvements all across our system. And British Columbians are

joining us. They’re choosing heat pumps in record numbers. They’re choosing EVs in

record numbers. We are leading Canada on clean energy, and we’re doing it in housing,

in electricity and in every other area.

[End of question period.]

Tabling Documents

The Speaker : Hon. Members, I have the honour to table the Merit Commissioner’s 2025-26 annual report.

Interjection.

The Speaker : Shhh. Shhh. Members.

Petitions

Jennifer Blatherwick : I rise to present a petition from members of my riding, 88 signatures to petition

more regulation for dog and cat breeding.

Jody Toor : I rise to present a petition signed by 1,236 people on behalf of women living with

PMOS, formerly known as PCOS, a condition that affects one in ten women, including

Becky, whose personal story helped inspire this petition. I am honoured to present

this petition to the House today.

Brennan Day : I rise to present a petition on behalf of the 37 homeowners in the Queneesh trailer

park in Courtenay, who are, unfortunately, struggling, being displaced as the mobile

home has been announced to close.

It is also accompanied by a letter to the Premier. They wanted me to pass this along

to spur some action.

Orders of the Day

Government Motions on Notice

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I move Motion 18, of which notice has been given in my name on the order paper. It

will extend sitting hours to 9 p.m. on Wednesday, May 27 to provide allotted hours

for the Premier’s estimates.

[That, notwithstanding Standing Order 2 (1), the adjournment time of the sitting of the House commencing at 1.30 p.m. on Wednesday, May 27, 2026, be modified to 9 p.m.

And further, that this modified time of adjournment extend to the application of Standing Order 3 and to the

interpretation of the ordinary time fixed for adjournment of the House in the Sessional Order adopted by the House on February 19, 2026, enabling certain proceedings of the House to be undertaken in three sections.]

Motion approved.

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I move Motion 19, of which notice has been given in my name, seconded by the official

opposition House Leader and the House Leader of the Third Party on the order paper,

which appoints Jason Laidman at the Sergeant-at-Arms position effectively July 6,

[That, effective July 6, 2026, Jason Laidman be appointed Sergeant-at-Arms and hold the status of a permanent officer, in accordance with

section 39 (1) of the Constitution Act (R.S.B.C. 1996, c. 66).]

Jason Laidman brings more than 30 years of experience in municipal policing, most

recently serving as deputy chief with the Victoria police department. Jason brings

a familiarity with the legislative precinct as well as extensive leadership experience

in public safety operations, governance and workforce management.

Jason has extensive experience with planning and command of major events, demonstrations

and dignitary visits, including those on or around the precinct. He is skilled at

emergency management and organizational readiness, leading coordinated responses in

dynamic conditions and ensuring teams are prepared to address evolving risks.

[2:40 p.m.]

Jason’s family has deep roots in public service. His spouse is a retired police officer,

who has also served with the provincial government for several years. He has two adult

daughters. One currently serves as a police officer, while the other is pursuing studies

with aspirations for a career in public service.

Outside of work, Jason is an avid runner and profoundly supports causes such as the

Wounded Warrior Run B.C. and B.C. law enforcement Run to Remember.

Jason joins us in the gallery today, and I would like to congratulate him on his appointment

and joining us here in the Legislative Assembly.

Finally, I would like to extend my deep appreciation to our current Sergeant-at-Arms,

Ray Robitaille, who has served with distinction, humility and honour in this role

since 2021. Ray, on behalf of the Legislature, thank you sincerely for your work.

I hope you enjoy your much-deserved retirement.

And Jason, welcome to the Legislature.

Á’a : líya Warbus : We would also like to extend our extreme gratitude to Ray Robitaille as he moves

on from his official capacity as Sergeant-at-Arms. All of the wonderful work that

he has led in this House, making sure that we all feel safe and secure — both in the

building, around the building — in our roles as MLAs. He’s oftentimes the very first

one to answer a call of distress. He will handle matters personally when anyone has

a question about safety, and it’s been an extreme pleasure to be working with him.

We’d also like to extend our congratulations and our welcome to Jason for joining

the Legislative Assembly family and being appointed Sergeant-at-Arms. His family clearly

has a history and a dedication to public service, and the running — it runs in the

legislative family as well. We are all trying to look for ways to improve our lives

outside of sitting in the Legislature, so that kind of inspiration is much needed

here. And we really, really appreciate both of you. Thank you so much.

Rob Botterell : I’d like to raise my hands too for all of your great work in modernizing security

for our members and staff, and I wish you the very best from the House.

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I’d be remiss if I didn’t remind the House that there will be a recognition in the

library tomorrow at lunchtime to recognize the achievements and accomplishments of

Ray as Sergeant-at-Arms.

The Speaker : The question is adoption of the motion.

Motion approved.

Hon. Mike Farnworth : In this chamber, I call estimates for the Ministry of Finance.

In

Section A, the Douglas Fir Room, continued committee stage on Bill 9, Freedom of Information and Privacy Act.

In

Section C, the Birch Room, continued committee on Bill 20, K’ómoks Treaty Act.

[2:45 p.m.]

The House in Committee,

Section B.

The committee met at 2:47 p.m.

[Lorne Doerkson in the chair.]

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of Finance

(continued)

The Chair : Members, we will call the chamber back to order, where we’ll call on the Minister of Finance to read the vote.

On Vote 27: ministry operations, $29,430,000.

Jeremy Valeriote : I have an hour, and I’m filling in for our Third Party Finance liaison, who may or may not join us. I’ll do my best to fill his shoes.

Starting off with the Liquor Distribution Branch. The projected government revenue from the LDB was over $1 billion each year from 2019 to 2025. In this year’s budget estimates,

the revenue from the LDB will be under $1 billion, at $945 million, and this is projected

to decrease each following year.

Recently LDB announced plans to allow producers to deliver packaged refreshment beverages

directly to wholesale customers. These products are currently distributed only through the public liquor distribution system, and the BCGEU has publicly stated that this change is a “betrayal of a written commitment to consult

the union before making changes to liquor distribution policy.” When polled, 86 percent of

British Columbians want public revenue to be considered in liquor policy decisions.

So I have a couple of clarification questions. The first question is: what projected

impact will direct delivery of refreshment beverages have on LDB revenue now and into

the future?

[2:50 p.m.]

Hon. Brenda Bailey : Recognizing that the Green Party may be asking questions beyond the vote that I called,

we’ll go ahead and call the larger sum so that we can have a broader area for the

Greens to be able to ask their questions.

On Vote 26: ministry operations, $381,863,000 (continued) .

Hon. Brenda Bailey : We’ll get an answer to your question in just a moment.

The Chair : Thank you for the clarity, Minister.

Hon. Brenda Bailey : Thank you to the member for the question.

A couple of things first to sort of frame this up. The first is that the BCLDB falls under the

Ministry of Agriculture, no longer the Ministry of Finance. So we can provide some overview for the member, but any detailed questions really

would be directed to the Ministry of Agriculture and Food.

The member is asking about targeted operational change that is intended to strengthen

B.C.’s liquor manufacturing sector and improve flexibility within the supply chain

while maintaining the public distribution system. There is no expected impact to government

revenue as the LDB will continue to collect markup on these sales.

The LDB will continue to distribute all imported refreshments, beverages, wine and

spirits. And any newly available space in the LDB’s warehouse will be filled with

other liquor products, including non-stocked wholesale products, NSWP. As a result, no job losses are anticipated.

Jeremy Valeriote : I’ll focus on the finance-focused questions. I understand that there…. I don’t think

the minister said revenue neutrality, but that’s what I take it to mean.

Could the minister share details about how the government reached this conclusion

that it would have no impact on LDB revenues?

[2:55 p.m.]

Hon. Brenda Bailey : The member is asking about a policy that’s currently being rolled out by the Ministry

of Agriculture and Food. I think the tie-in to the budget estimates that the member

is bringing is the question of: given our budget estimates, are they expected to change

due to this policy?

I’ll answer it in light of that — what I understand to be the question. No, there

is not expected to be an impact to government revenue. The member asked: “How do we

know that?” Modelling is what we use in estimates. It’s based on the fact that the LDB will continue to collect markup on these products,

as they previously would have.

Jeremy Valeriote : Appreciate the markup clarification for the second time.

I’m hoping this might be within the purview of the Minister of Finance. I’ll just state that privatizing part of the public liquor distribution system without

careful study of the impacts to revenue could carry risk. It sounds like it has been

modelled. But we understand unionized workers in the sector were not consulted.

I’d like to ask the minister if, through her ministry, producers were surveyed to

project what kind of volumes would be diverted away from the public system and whether

consultation was done on the producer-retailer side.

Hon. Brenda Bailey : I’d like to direct the member to take this question to the Ministry of Agriculture

and Food. It’s not part of our budget work or estimates, and I think they’ll get a

fulsome answer were they to direct the question that way.

Jeremy Valeriote : Thank you. I’ll move to a different topic.

Recently an organization called Squamish Helping Hands — which is a non-profit housing

organization in the riding I represent, West Vancouver–Sea to Sky — along with 39 other non-profit housing organizations in the province, were transitioned

from the Community Social Services Employers Association of B.C. to the Health Employers

Association of B.C.

I met with Squamish Helping Hands, and they expressed concerns that none of these

organizations were consulted before this union transfer. None of these organizations

have a commitment from the government. The cost related to the transfer will be covered,

and all organizations said that the transfer will exacerbate budget challenges. At

least 800 employees will experience a reduction in annual earnings due to wage reductions

and changes in hours of work.

Right before this change was to come into place, the ministry informed them of a year-long

pause to implementation, requiring them to unwind the preparation for the administrative

changes that were made — so a huge administrative burden that costs at least one and

likely many small non-profits a lot of time and money and impacted trusts with employees. There are some large service providers that may be able to

do this smoothly, but smaller ones are comparatively limited.

My question to the minister is: if this change is to go ahead in the future, how will

the ministry work with these organizations to ensure they’re prepared and have adequate

time to make the necessary changes?

[3:00 p.m.-3:05 p.m.]

Hon. Brenda Bailey : Thank you to the member for your patience as we switched people and got the folks

who had the right information to be able to help me with the answer to this question.

The member is asking about these 39 community organizations that have been part of

the community social services collective agreement and are now transitioning into

the health sector agreement. That transition is going to happen April 2027, so there

is some time. The work on this transition is being undertaken now.

A couple of things that I’ll just comment on about that transition. The first one

is in recognition that folks working in the housing sector do a tremendous amount

of work. Often it’s work that really parallels a lot of the work that folks in health

do. There’s a lot of support work for people who are in that sector. It’s largely

in recognition of the nature of that work that they’re now levelling up to be at the

same level as folks in the health sector agreement.

Jeremy Valeriote : I understand, perhaps, the overall benefits, but I think the minister would agree

that for the 800 employees who will have their earnings reduced, it’s a pretty startling

change for an administrative change that really does impact trust. I spoke to an executive

director that has to represent this decision to their employees, and it really erodes

morale, and it erodes trust. So in terms of….

I guess there are two questions here, and I apologize. They’re somewhat related. This

transfer that will go ahead in April 2027 will have administrative costs associated.

Will the ministry fund the costs associated with making this transfer, and how does

the ministry intend to address the earnings reduction for affected employees?

[3:10 p.m.]

Hon. Brenda Bailey : For the member, the way that I’ll explain this is that there are about 2,500 people

that are impacted by this change from the community social service collective agreement

now going up to the health sector agreement.

There is work underway right now between the HEABC and the unions, and they’ll be

addressing the question of impacts on salary. It wouldn’t be really appropriate for

me to presuppose any outcomes from those negotiations.

I will share with the member that there is a recognition that there will be additional

funding needed, and that has been included in this budget within the wage mandate.

That, of course, reflects that, overall, there will be a wage lift for these workers.

Jeremy Valeriote : I’ll change gears. Still on the revenue side, but to talk about our favourite topic,

the carbon tax.

The minister well knows, on April 1 of last year, the carbon tax was officially removed

after 16 years. The government’s justification was affordability, if I’m summarizing

fairly. British Columbian economists have stated that consumer carbon pricing was

not a contributor to the affordability crisis. Instead, it was likely an overall benefit

to lower-income consumers, with the rebates and social services that the billions

of tax dollars provided in government revenue.

In the years since the carbon tax was removed, gas prices have risen back above the

levels prior to the tax’s removal. These are and may be mostly beyond the government’s

control, but that’s part of the problem. The government has induced many British Columbians

to continue to rely on the unpredictability of fuel supply and gas vehicles — lowering

incentives to buy electric cars, eliminating EV rebates and lowering the 2035 sale

mandates — all while losing government revenue of over $2 billion a year.

[3:15 p.m.]

How does the government plan to recover the loss of $2 billion in net revenue that

the carbon tax provided?

Hon. Brenda Bailey : The member has asked: how does government intend to address the revenue loss from

carbon tax? I think the first thing I’d want to highlight is that this was a very

significant tax break for British Columbians at a time when they really needed it.

Government is taking several steps in Budget 2026 to update the tax system, including

increasing the first income tax rate bracket from 5.06 to 5.60, with offsetting increases

to some tax credit amounts to help make sure that we’re also protecting the lower-income

British Columbians. We’re also expanding the PST tax base to include some professional

services, which is more in line with other Canadian provinces.

This is in addition to making government more efficient through the work that we’re

doing with our efficiency reviews and our expenditure management, which has been significant,

and, very importantly, to continue our deep, deep focus on economic growth.

I’ll also add that despite the removal of the carbon tax on April 1, 2025, government

chose to maintain many of the measures that were actually funded by the carbon tax.

For example, we maintained the lower second bracket rate at 7.70 for income between

$50,000 and $100,000, and that essentially protects people from experiencing a tax

increase in those areas.

The reduction in small business corporate tax rate that happened in 2017 was funded

by the carbon tax. That reduction was from 2.5 percent to 2 percent. It would’ve been

logical to raise it back up again, but we know that small businesses are also feeling

the impact of the trade war and decided not to do that measure.

[3:20 p.m.]

Also, the increase to the small business corporate tax threshold from $400,000 to

$500,000, we kept that in place, and maintaining a number of income tax credits, like

the B.C. home-renovation tax credit for seniors and persons with disabilities and

the B.C. SR&ED tax credit.

There are a number of other examples, but I think you get the point that we didn’t

just cut across the board in regards to addressing the revenue from carbon tax. We’re

taking a more nuanced approach with an eye to affordability for individual British

Columbians and also B.C. businesses.

Jeremy Valeriote : Just following up on the…. I want to focus on the lowest tax bracket. I think I heard

the minister say that, combined with tax credits, it would have a minimal impact.

Can the minister confirm that for people making under $50,000, despite raising the

rate on the lowest tax bracket, it will essentially be neutral for people in that

lowest tax bracket?

Hon. Brenda Bailey : The member asked about the tax rate changes in the lower tax bracket, and that was

a change from 5.06 percent to 5.60 percent. We have offset the cost for British Columbians

with lower incomes through an increased tax reduction credit. So while the average

tax impact for all British Columbians is $76 in 2026, more than 40 percent of British

Columbians will actually see tax savings overall.

B.C. will still be the lowest-income jurisdiction for individuals earning $149,000

of income, although the impacts will vary by taxpayer based on the type of earnings

that they particularly have. For example, an individual that’s working full-time,

40 hours, and earning a minimum wage will be able to claim the basic personal tax

amount, CPP and EI tax credits and the B.C. tax reduction credit, which will offset

the increase.

Similarly, seniors will also be able to claim increased tax credit amounts under the

basic personal amount, the age amount and the B.C. tax reduction credit as offsets

to this increase.

[3:25 p.m.]

Jeremy Valeriote : I appreciate the detail and updates to the tax code. With a $13 billion deficit, we

don’t think they go as far as we would like to see, but I’m also conscious that the

budget documents extensively mention the province’s economic investments to provide

future revenue. Government has defended the record deficit by continuously referencing

the need to invest more in our economy as global uncertainty grows, and Look West

in particular signals that this government believes the key to B.C.’s economic future

is through natural resource development.

Our own economic history has demonstrated that economic reliance on natural resources

is unreliable and depends on a boom-and-bust cycle of the global economy. We’ve seen

the total yearly government revenue from natural resources go from $2 billion to $6

billion and back down to $3 billion all in only a six-year time span.

Our health care, social services, child care and housing supports can’t afford the

re-pacing that coincides with these economic downturns. The budget has proved that

uncertainty causes pauses in necessary government spending and increases in taxes

sometimes impacting working-class British Columbians. Examples are many: the halt

of the community housing fund, pausing of $10-a-day child care, expansion of the PST,

just to name a few.

My question to the minister: what does the minister see as a plan envisioned to move B.C. out of this boom-and-bust

economic cycle?

Hon. Brenda Bailey : Thank you to the member for the question. I think the natural resource sector of course

is always going to be deeply important to British Columbia, and there’s much work

underway addressing the impacts that we’re seeing from the trade war and also really

looking for new opportunities to expand in the natural resource sector.

I do also want, of course, to highlight the fact that one of the great strengths of

British Columbia is that we have a diversified economy. That has provided us resilience

and stability, even in these very difficult times.

I’ll highlight for the member specifically, in regards to the Look West strategy….

The Look West strategy is not just a natural resource strategy. Of course that’s part

of it, but there’s so much to the Look West strategy. It includes the marine sector.

It includes quantum. British Columbia is one of the leaders in quantum technologies.

This is extraordinary. It’s a tremendous opportunity for British Columbia, and the

leadership being provided by these really exceptional companies is quite something

to behold. We see opportunities in the biotech sector.

In this particular budget, in addition to the Look West strategy, you see $400 million

put aside specifically to unlock investments in partnership with the federal government

and with corporate partners to ensure that we’re drawing investments into British

Columbia. I’ll share with the member that, prior to that specific designation of a

strategic investment fund, when I was the minister on that file, we too made direct investments.

In that case, it was in particular to our biotech strategy, investing in companies

like Stemcell, the largest biotech company in Canada. Seeing the growth in that sector

— B.C. now has the largest biotech sector growth happening in Canada — has been really

extraordinary. It creates not only jobs, but it actually helps British Columbians

in terms of solutions also — things like personalized health care and cancer treatment.

[3:30 p.m.]

When I was touring one of these organizations, I met people who were moving back to

British Columbia because they had degrees in this area and were working in biotech

but had to go to other countries. The person I was speaking to had been living in

Germany for 15 years. Now we’re attracting them back to British Columbia.

So in my view, I think that the diversity that we have in our province and the investments

that we’re making, the diversity that we see represented in the Look West strategy

— that’s the future of our province.

Jeremy Valeriote : Thank you to the minister.

In Budget 2026’s expense by function, natural resources and economic development are

combined into one category, with $4.27 billion budgeted. The Third Party is concerned

that this is a signal that government may not be looking at economic development in

a broader lens to reflect the diversity of our economy, particularly given how small

the natural resource sector actually is, in terms of both government revenue and contributions

to GDP.

At the same time, spending on the budget line item “natural resources and economic

development” is projected to shrink each year, an average annual decrease of 4.7 percent,

the largest decrease among the categories listed in the budget.

I appreciate the minister’s outlining of other things in Look West besides just LNG

and mining, in terms of marine industry, quantum, biotech. Can the minister fill in

where renewable energy fits into this category and how it will be supported with a

declining share of operating expenses?

[3:35 p.m.]

Hon. Brenda Bailey : Thank you to the member for the question in regards to renewable energy.

Not a spot I can specifically point out that line item in the budget, because, of

course, the renewable energy is happening largely through calls for power with B.C.

Hydro.

I will point out to the member that on page 164, you can see that B.C. Hydro’s numbers

are increasing significantly — 587 actuals, ’24-25 forecasted 712 in ’25-26, ’26-27,

updated forecast. I think it’s important to highlight that just this year alone there’ve

been ten major wind projects that have been announced as part of the calls for power,

and we know those are done in partnership with nations as well.

There’s a strong devotion to renewable energy that is being expressed through projects

at B.C. Hydro, and you’ll see them captured in that budget line item on page 164.

Jeremy Valeriote : Can the minister explain which discrete aspects of natural resources and economic

development line item are decreasing to cause this average annual decrease in overall

spending?

Hon. Brenda Bailey : I’ll do my best to explain this to the member. It’s just been highlighted to me. I’m

on page 166 of the Blue Book. I believe the member is referring to natural resources

and economic development, a deduction of $4.7, on average. I think that’s the member’s

question: why are we seeing a decline?

If you look in actuals 2023, you can see it’s 7.9. In 2024, actuals are 6.7., and

then forecasted numbers are lower. You see the forecast numbers at 4.8, 4.3, 4.3,

4.1. This isn’t actually capturing a deduction. What it’s capturing is that the actuals

have the real numbers;

whereas, the forecasts, of course, don’t.

The money that is spent on EMCR statutory response or forest fire statutory or held

in contingencies will not be captured in those numbers in estimates. It would really

just be rolled in and expressed in the actuals after an event happens. So, it’s really

an accounting expression rather than a deduction that we’re expecting to see.

Jeremy Valeriote : I was able to follow that on that page, so it’s appreciated.

I’m running out of time, so I’m just going to ask about what’s innovatively been called

re-pacing some of the pauses and “to be confirmed” line items announced by this budget.

These affect close to home, for me, long-term-care facilities, hospital construction,

child care services, affordable housing, transit and others.

[3:40 p.m.]

These specific reductions in funding will have downstream strain on many other existing

services, like the health care system, housing supply and affordable food.

So we’ve noted that sometimes, as is probably necessary, the ministries can be somewhat

siloed. Has the Finance Ministry conducted an analysis on how these budgetary delays

will cut across ministries and anticipated the likely strain it will create across

many ministries?

Hon. Brenda Bailey : Thank you to the member for the question about…. We’ve used the word “re-pacing.”

It really means changing timelines.

I want to talk specifically about his question on long-term care. The way the member

framed it was: in making this change to pause long-term care, are there impacts down

the line on other services and so on? I actually see this as quite the opposite. If

we continue to spend the amounts that we’re seeing long-term care come in at — $1.9

million per bed — that is going to have an impact on our ability to do other things.

Those numbers aren’t acceptable. It is the correct decision to stop and to look at

how we can get those numbers down. That is the correct decision.

It’s also important to note that we continue to build significant long-term care while

we’re doing this work. It’s 1,142 long-term-care beds in Nanaimo, Colwood, Vancouver,

Richmond, Cranbrook — an important step towards addressing the province’s long-term-care

needs while at the same time pulling back on some of the long-term-care projects that

were coming in at the higher levels.

There are a number of tools that we can employ to bring down the cost of long-term

care. The Ministry of Infrastructure is leading this work and doing a full analysis on how we can get those numbers down

and then get back into building long-term care quickly and ensuring that we’re getting

those numbers down.

Contrary to the way that the question was framed, by bringing down costs in long-term

care, we will be able to do more. We will be able to do a better job of providing

for British Columbians, and we’ll be able to ensure that we continue with our long-term-care

program.

Jeremy Valeriote : I have some questions on the PST expansion.

The textiles industry, largely due to fast fashion, now contributes 10 percent of

global carbon emissions. The UN Secretary-General, on fast fashion, said: “Dressing

to kill could kill the planet.”

We suspect that PST increases to textile improvements would discourage individuals

from clothing repair.

I have a constituent who runs a yarn shop in Squamish and is not isolated to Squamish,

expressing strong concerns regarding the increase in costs. This tax increase will

cost her business and many like hers. This small business owner informed us of the

potential equity concerns with tax increases on some of these specific goods. In the

case of textiles, her position is that the biggest impact will be on women and women-owned

businesses and British Columbians who are trying to get by in this affordability crisis.

[3:45 p.m.]

Has this government considered either the environmental, in terms of fast fashion,

or equity implications throughout the evaluation process of the PST expansion?

Hon. Brenda Bailey : There were a number of different things in that question, so I’ll take a crack at

it, and the member can let me know if I’ve missed something.

I’ll just share that I also worry about the impacts of fast fashion and am a big believer

in pre-loved clothing and shoes and so on. It remains true that those are also PST-exempt.

I think the member mentioned that they were talking to someone who I believe has a

textile factory, if I understood correctly, and was worried that the PST changes might

deter that person from upgrading their machinery, I’m assuming. We do have a manufacturing tax credit that is introduced

in Budget 2026, of 15 percent. That might be something for the member’s constituent

to explore.

I do know that we have a letter from a constituent in the member’s riding, and it

might be partly what the member was referring to. I’ll share that we’ve responded

to that, Member, by letting them know that…. They asked about a differential between perhaps having

natural fibres not taxed and synthetic fibres taxed. We haven’t gone that direction.

[3:50 p.m.]

We really are wanting to be more aligned with other provinces and bring our PST tax

code up to date with other provinces as one of our drivers, in line with Saskatchewan

and Manitoba and the provinces with HST. They’re already taxing sewing and knitting materials, for example. Applying PST

to both synthetic and natural fibres is consistent with how taxes apply in other provinces.

To ensure that British Columbians can still access affordable, tax-free clothing options,

the PST exemption used for clothing and footwear under $100 remains in place.

Jeremy Valeriote : I will just use my last minute to read a question into the record. I’m hoping the

minister can answer at a later date. This is on behalf of my colleague from Saanich North and the Islands, who has a constituent, long story short, who was prevented from taking occupancy

of her home in Sidney, B.C. by New Zealand’s quarantine rules around the COVID-19

pandemic.

Because they were delayed moving into their home, they were issued a property tax bill, and this seems…. To my colleague, this is a cut-and-dried

case of well-intended government tax policy that is failing a specific British Columbian.

The question is: will the Minister of Finance meet with the member and the constituent

to rectify this situation that is punishing the constituent through no fault of their

own and costing thousands of dollars? I’ll leave that one there.

Hon. Brenda Bailey : A specific question like that we would treat as casework, and we’d be happy to receive

it at the Ministry of Finance and work to find resolution for that constituent.

Peter Milobar : I’ll be delving into GCPE for the next little while. I’m not sure if we need a staff

change out.

Hon. Brenda Bailey : Mr. Speaker, while we await our new colleagues to join us, may we have a five-minute

bio break?

The Chair : You certainly could. Five minutes it is.

Hon. Brenda Bailey : Thank you.

The Chair : We’ll be in recess for the next five minutes.

The committee recessed from 3:53 p.m. to 3:57 p.m.

[Lorne Doerkson in the chair.]

The Chair : Okay. We will call the chamber back to order.

Peter Milobar : I’m wondering if we could get the numbers of the full-time-equivalents for GCPE for

last fiscal; what, this fiscal, they’re slated to be; and what, in fact, they’re slated

to be for the remainder of the three-year fiscal plan that we’re dealing with today.

[4:00 p.m.]

Hon. Brenda Bailey : The total average active employee, FTE equivalent: 2025-2026, last year, 301; ’26-27,

297; ’27-28, stable, 297; ’28-29, stable, 297.

Peter Milobar : Can the minister explain then…? Actually, I’ll take a step back. Can I get clarification

with the way the beginning of that answer is worded? Does that mean there are no other

open positions, that these are just filled positions? There is no outstanding funding,

and these are strictly the cap? The max, all in, for GCPE would be the 301, now 297,

297 and 297?

Hon. Brenda Bailey : The total headcount, which would include unfilled positions, would be 318. There’s

no intention to fill those positions. The number that will be filled positions, FTE

equivalents, going forward this year and through the fiscal plan is 297.

Peter Milobar : So 301…. In a year, you’re down 4, which is about a 1 percent reduction in GCPE employees.

And 15,000 jobs are supposed to be getting found. It’s about a 3½ to 4 percent reduction.

Why is GCPE exempt from coming in at even what would be the basic average?

Surely, when we’re talking about front-line staff, front-line pressures, the ability

to provide services that British Columbians need, having a layoff-free area within

government communications seems like an odd starting choice to be protecting the jobs.

Why is the job situation with GCPE seeming to be 100 percent stable, confirmed by

the minister, no change whatsoever for the three years of this fiscal plan, despite

the fact that this government is looking for 15,000 jobs over the course of this three-year

fiscal plan?

[4:05 p.m.]

Hon. Brenda Bailey : The reduction, 318 to 296, is a 6.6 percent reduction. But I do want to mention that

Budget 2026 and the fiscal plan capture our initial work on an efficiency review.

There is more work to come, and so we do expect to continue this work over the coming

years.

Peter Milobar : What is the projected expenditure for polling or research, whichever buzzword the

government would prefer, for this year as well as the subsequent two years in the

fiscal plan?

[4:10 p.m.]

Hon. Brenda Bailey : The estimate for Budget ’26-27 is that 1.5 percent of their base budget will be spent

on research.

Peter Milobar : Sorry, could I get clarification of 1.5 percent of the base budget? Is it 1.5 percent

of the advertising budget of $2.5 million or 1.5 percent of the base budget of $30

million? Could I get a dollar figure?

Hon. Brenda Bailey : The number is $432,000, which is 1.49 percent of the overall base budget.

Peter Milobar : Does that $432,000 come out of the advertising STOB 67? Also, is there a projection

for next year and the following year for polling?

Hon. Brenda Bailey : It’s out of STOB 60, and in ’27-28, that number will be flat. In’28-29 as well.

Peter Milobar : Then out of the $2.337 million for advertising, how much of that is being spent on

Meta and other online advertising?

[4:15 p.m.]

fiscal year ’25-26, government spent approximately $367,000 on Meta advertising. That

represents about 3 percent of total media spend. The campaigns included wildfire prevention

and preparedness; drought awareness; immunization campaigns, including measles, HPV

and respiratory illness; sexual violence prevention; HelpStartsHere, which is mental

health and substance use; seasonal and public safety messaging in regards to floods

and extortion awareness.

$139,000 on TikTok advertising on things like health care recruitment in the U.S.,

HPV vaccination, sexual violence prevention, HelpStartsHere and economic opportunities

related to skilled-trades training.

We do not currently advertise on X. We do spend about $37,000 on Snapchat advertising.

The campaigns included HPV vaccination and sexual violence prevention.

Peter Milobar : Just to get clear though, the minister said $367,000 was about 4 percent. If it’s

coming out of advertising, the STOB for last year was $3.5 million. This year it’s

$2.37 million for advertising. I’m just worried…. We keep throwing out the percentages

there of the overall budget of GCPE versus the actual advertising budget or the STOB

item. So it may be 4 percent of the budget, but it was 10 percent of the advertising

budget, if I heard that correctly.

Based on…. I appreciate there is a need for public awareness, but there, last I checked,

was great fanfare — and we canvassed this a bit last year — about buy local, buy Canadian.

It was actually supposed to be very clear that changes were supposed to be made, that

cuts were supposed to be made.

I’ve heard from a great many local media, both in print and radio and every other

medium out there, that they have concerns around government not supporting smaller,

especially in the smaller towns, with advertising dollars at the expense of Meta advertisements

and other U.S.-based advertising vehicles.

Has there been any change of policy? Has there been any clear direction given by this

government, and if so, why is that continuing, to still see that spending through

GCPE, specifically?

[4:20 p.m.]

Hon. Brenda Bailey : The province prioritizes Canadian-owned media in its paid public information campaigns.

The member asked about: is there a policy in place? It’s by practice. The practice

is that more than 50 percent of media spending for B.C. audiences is directed to local

media outlets.

The objective, of course, is to reach British Columbians effectively, and that requires

a mix of channels and a mix of formats, including digital, print, radio, television,

out of home and in multiple languages.

Peter Milobar : I’ll just jump back to the FTE question then. Has there been any internal modelling

or discussion, given that the advertising budget did go down this year? I will give

the ministry their due for that. There is less spending in advertising, yet there

hasn’t been a commensurate reduction in staff. We have the same amount of staff to

spend $1 million less in advertising. The bulk of that, it sounds like, is a cut to

local, small newspapers and publications and the like.

[Mable Elmore in the chair.]

Why is there not an adjustment, if the goal of government is to try to rein in spending

anywhere and everywhere, bring down the government propaganda of the advertising budget

to be strictly, solely public informational type commentary, to keep staffing at the

same level for one-third of the amount of money that we’ll be purchasing with?

I would say that it’s actually more than one-third less advertising being purchased

because, as we all know, advertising rates tend to go up over time so there would

actually be less product needing to be produced with the same amount of staff over

the next three years, projected.

[4:25 p.m.]

Hon. Brenda Bailey : I will remind the member that we have seen a 6.6 percent reduction in staffing at

GCPE this year. That has been reflected.

I take issue with the member’s choice of terminology in regard to using the word “propaganda”

to talk about these campaigns. Let’s talk about what we’re really informing people

about. Wildfire prevention and preparedness. Drought awareness. Immunization campaigns,

HPV for example. We know that we can actually eliminate cervical cancer with a strong

HPV campaign and our new test-at-home kits.

These are very significant campaigns. Sexual violence prevention. It’s very upsetting

and true that we are seeing an increase in domestic violence in our province. These

campaigns are important. A mental health and substance use campaign called HelpStartsHere.

And, of course, seasonal and public safety messages around floods and extortion. Also

our new Intimate Images Act, a campaign to help people understand how to access protections

under that act.

I do just want to put on the record that I do not share the member’s perspective that

these are propaganda. These are important campaigns that inform British Columbians

of information they need to have and tools that they can access.

[4:30 p.m.]

Peter Milobar : Can the minister clarify? She just said there was a 6.6 percent reduction in staff,

yet she said they went from 301 to 297. I’m a little confused how that translates

to 6.6 percent.

Hon. Brenda Bailey : We also described that the allotment was 318 positions. They weren’t all filled. That’s

where the 301 number came from, so when you look at the 318 to the 296, 6.6 percent.

Peter Milobar : Sorry, is the minister suggesting that the 15,000 FTEs that the government is looking

for are just simply vacant positions that hadn’t been filled, maybe were approved

but not yet hired for? I think we need to get a clear understanding where these 15,000

positions are if the minister is going to be using that.

We had 301 filled positions. It’s down to 297. That is not a 6.6 reduction. It doesn’t

really matter for the last couple of years. If you haven’t been operating at 318,

you haven’t been operating at 318.

Is that how this government is planning on finding these 15,000 positions, by actually

just not filling empty positions that have been empty for a couple of years on the

books?

[4:35 p.m.]

Hon. Brenda Bailey : I’ll walk through a few more numbers in regards to how this has worked with GCPE.

Of course, there are a number of different tools that are being employed here.

In December 2024, we brought in a hiring freeze. It wasn’t a budgetary item. It was

in response to, as you’ll recall, the announcement of tariffs and the need for us

to take action on expenses.

Prior to that, the ’24-25 number was actually 336. It was the ’25-26 number that was

318. That was the approved number, but was only hired to 301.

I think it’s important to understand there are a number of different things going

on — the hiring freeze, the reductions that are being made through that and the efficiency

management process.

In addition, there is, in Budget 2026, for the public sector more broadly, a 15,000

person reduction over the next three years. So the public service has been under a

hiring freeze since December 2024. The public sector, referred to in Budget 2026,

will be reducing 15,000 employees.

Peter Milobar : Well, a lot of what the minister touched on in her examples previously, in response

to my using the word “propaganda,” was around those public service announcement campaigns,

which I’m assuming frame up the bulk of the $2.3 million worth of advertising. I said

at the time that I can understand the need for those types of campaigns.

Is the minister suggesting that the only duties GCPE has are coordinating advertising

and messaging within that $2.3 million spend and on those particular subject matters?

Or does the GCPE have a broader mandate of tasks that they perform, those 297 people?

If so, can the minister enlighten us on what those other areas are that they devote

their time to as well?

[4:40 p.m.]

Hon. Brenda Bailey : We’re really getting into what GCPE’s mandate is. GCPE covers government communications

and public engagement. It’s the province’s central communications organization and

is responsible for delivering government communications to the public. It ensures

advertising, web communications, crisis communications, and multilingual services.

And just to kind of drill down a little bit further and, hopefully, to get to the

member’s question, it includes roles like the following: editorial services, events

and corporate planning, information management, multi-language services, media-monitoring

insights, media relations, planning and performance, writing and content strategy,

ministry communications and issues management.

Peter Milobar : That’s the area of propaganda that I was referring to, to be clear, because otherwise we’re spending $2 million a month to manage $200,000 worth of advertising budget a month, because the topics that the minister brought forward that were being advertised and pushed

out are serious and do need public attention to them.

But everything else — the media relations, the corporate events, the cabinet communications,

ministry communications, crisis communication — the average person would see as people

crafting a message for the minister and pre-empting within a media sphere to get messaging

and a tone and a framing of an issue. And so that’s why we spend $25 million a year

on this area, on staffing, not to spend it on $2 million worth of advertising because if we did, that would be a pretty scary concept that we’re

spending ten times as much on monthly staff to place $200,000 worth of advertising.

So with that in mind…. I want to be 100 percent clear about this. I do not question

the skill sets and the expertise of people in GCPE if I’m asking these questions.

In fact, I recognize they’re very good at what they do. But GCPE is just what the

government uses directly.

[4:45 p.m.]

And I wouldn’t want the public to think that there are only — only — 297 people in

communications for government, because we all know there are health authorities. We

know there are universities. We know that there are school districts, and the list

goes on and on.

Within all of those government entities, has the government tasked GCPE to use their

expertise at all to try to figure out how to perhaps reduce the overall burden and

cost pressure that this ever-growing communication sphere has created across government

at a time that they’re trying to find 15,000 FTEs and cost savings? Or are all those

other arm’s-length agencies within government left to their own devices, and we’re not asking the expertise within GCPE to help guide how that should be

framed, moving forward?

Hon. Brenda Bailey : GCPE does coordinate with folks in the broader public sector, specifically with health

authorities, and they cooperate quite regularly, really focusing on efficiency of

resources. That’s also true in campaigns with Crown corporations, but primarily, GCPE

focuses on core government.

I will share with the member that the work that we have coming up with efficiencies

within the broader public sector will go through in the next few years. We have much

to do in regards to expanding our efficiency reviews. Some of that work is already

underway in terms of the review of the health authorities and the work that’s been

going on in the post-secondary review.

Peter Milobar : That pretty much finishes me up with GCPE this year. We’re on a bit tighter of a timeline

today than other years. I’d be moving on to lotteries and then probably BCFSA to finish

out the day, just to give a heads-up to the other staff.

[4:50 p.m.]

Last year we canvassed quite heavily around the push from Ontario and other off-site

online gaming platforms that we’re trying to get regulated into B.C. Has there been

any change or update as to the status of where we’re at with that side of the industry?

[4:55 p.m.]

Hon. Brenda Bailey : This is an area that we’re monitoring quite closely. The member will know, largely

because of the member’s relationship in Kamloops to the location of the work that

goes on here, British Columbia has a very robust program and is, in fact, an award

winner in terms of player safety in this space.

We want to be very cautious of any changes that we bring, so we’re monitoring what’s

happening in other provinces.

For example, Ontario, who’s already brought in changes and opened their market, will

have a report that’s forthcoming. We expect an update from Ontario within the next

month or two. We’re in contact with them about some sharing of information about how

this is playing out on the ground in Ontario.

We also know that Alberta is moving forward on July 13 with opening their market,

and we’ll be watching very closely as well.

Peter Milobar : Last year there had been some lobbying efforts brought forward from the industry.

What lobbying efforts over the last year, since we last canvassed this, have been

happening? Has there been an uptick on number of meetings, requested meetings? How

aggressive is the shift being pushed?

Especially with, as you say, Ontario reviewing and Alberta getting ready to implement,

things seem to be percolating along. There seem to be more sites and different sites

coming on stream as well. Just what is the state of that lobbying effort and that

push?

There’s obviously a lot of fixed-location employment tied to gaming centres and casinos

within the province, and there’s a lot of worry around competition, obviously, but

more so competition when it’s not even in a regulated space within B.C. Those lost

revenues result not just to the local operator but to gaming funds in general and,

also, are bled off with no benefit to community or the government whatsoever.

So where are we at with that lobbying effort that’s happening? Are meetings still

happening, and if so, how many?

[5:00 p.m.]

Hon. Brenda Bailey : I’m looking at a list of lobbying meetings, and I would describe the lobbying effort

from the online folks as robust. I can share with the member that I have had one meeting

this year with lobbyists.

We also meet with land-based casino owners who…. I think the member, correctly, has

summarized their thinking on this, that there’s concern about a potential deleterious

effect for land-based casinos.

I think it’s really important, though, to get to the underlying question, which is:

what is the goal of the lobbying? I’ll share with the member that, for me, this decision

is not a decision that I would be swayed on by lobbying. For me, it’s going to be

an evidence-based decision, should we move forward with any changes. I think once

one opens the market, it’s pretty much impossible to go back.

So moving carefully and slowly and really taking a look at what’s happening on the

ground in other jurisdictions, on what the implications are, what the effects are

— particularly for young men, for example — and really being thorough in our analysis

is what would guide any changes, were there changes to policy.

Peter Milobar : Slowly and carefully is a good thing, and frankly, I would suggest that just about

every government gets characterized as the “slowly” part more often than not. It didn’t

matter….

I think back to my days at city council when we were thinking we would be the forerunners

of fibre for the whole city. We thankfully didn’t embark on the next, future phases,

although B.C. Lotteries and the city hall benefited from that because we got municipal

government buildings and schools onto fibre way ahead of the curve. But it was recognized

that we could not compete with the private sector on how fast they can move. All of

a sudden, Telus came in and put fibre everywhere, and Shaw upgraded their technologies

and everything else.

Point being, government does not move, typically, fast. This is not a shot at anyone

in particular; it’s just reality.

We’re in a gaming sphere, though, an online gaming sphere — and I think of how long

it took to bring in single-game betting — where we can be cautious and safe. I agree

with that in terms of flooding the market with online, but it’s still online, and

it is still accessible, especially with VPNs and everything else.

If we don’t have the product people want, if we’re not competing, opening it up, you’re

guaranteed to lose it. But whether you open it up or not, if the online product we

have isn’t keeping up with the trends, we’re losing out regardless, and that’s a big

concern as well. So what are the plans with the whole PlayNow platform to try to stay

relevant and current?

I look at online sites that have exploded over the last little while. I hadn’t heard

about it. I’m now well aware of Polymarket for various, obvious reasons, to some.

That seems to be a website and a gaming site designed around futures betting, and

it seems to be quite popular. There are other sites like that out there.

[5:05 p.m.]

What is the state of play, so to speak — pun intended, I guess — with lotteries to

match what is going on in the market? It is not realistic to think that government

can just say: “We’re not going to regulate, therefore this is not happening in our

province.” It is happening.

There are two ways to address it. We try to get better geofencing in, but we also

try to make sure our product is competitive and able to stand up against it as well.

So where are we at on that competitive side of our sites?

Hon. Brenda Bailey : The member and I agree on this point, and I think it’s absolutely true that remaining

competitive and bringing out new, compelling product that can compete with these larger

players is really important.

To that end, we will be bringing out a new platform. The platform for PlayNow is being

replaced in the fall to better compete in the market. It will also include a new offering

which is a sports betting platform that will come out as part of this new platform.

Important to recognize that all of these offerings will include the player health

initiatives that the province is well known for.

I will highlight to the member that just last year there were more than 1,200 new

games that were launched for this goal, of course, to provide compelling content.

Peter Milobar : In terms of the dollar figure attached to these, the overall impact to the industry,

the dollar figure of loss, both the government revenues but also impact to brick-and-mortar

operations within the province, what calculations have been done on that? And what,

more importantly, has been done to try to prevent the proliferation and the loss of

those revenues — and illegal websites?

That’s essentially what they…. Not essentially. They are illegal in B.C. yet operating,

apparently with impunity, while still negotiating a way into the market.

[5:10 p.m.]

Hon. Brenda Bailey : It’s quite hard to get a measurement of the illegal market. By the very nature of the activity, it’s challenging to estimate the size of the market

and the corresponding revenue. PlayNow, of course, as the member has rightly identified,

is B.C.’s only legal online gaming website and has operated since 2004 and continues

to see year-over-year revenue growth.

We recognize that there are challenges, primarily because illegal businesses just

don’t share their profit statements, of course, but our best estimate, including PlayNow’s

lottery and B2B revenue shares…. We estimate that BCLC has captured half — 51 percent

is our estimate — of the online gambling market in B.C. We know there has been a significant

increase in illegal operations attempting to enter B.C. through aggressive marketing

and acquisition efforts, much of it being successful entering B.C.

Since the government of Ontario opened its market, there has been this influx of advertising

for sites which are regulated in Ontario but operate illegally in other provinces,

including our own. This really blurs the line between those sites and provincially

regulated gambling, like PlayNow, which creates revenue and jobs for respective provinces.

The member also asks: “What’s to be done? What are we doing?” In 2022, BCLC joined

with other regulated provincial organizations to create the Canadian Lottery Coalition,

the CLC, to combat illegal online gambling activities through education and collective

legal action. As part of its actions, the coalition intervened in the Ontario reference

case on international liquidity, emphasizing fraud and money laundering concerns.

Manitoba Liquor and Lotteries, with the support of the CLC, successfully undertook

litigation and secured an injunction against the illegal online gambling operator

Bodog, which has been marketing directly to Manitoba residents and across Canada.

The CLC also supports Bill S211,

an act respecting a national framework on sports

betting advertising, now in second reading in the House of Commons.

Peter Milobar : There has been quite a shift over the last year in terms of some of the brick-and-mortar

ownership models. There has certainly been a bigger push within Indigenous nations

to acquire licensing, either fully or in partnership, as an economic growth option

for them. But as we just canvassed, with the online push into B.C…. That’s also making

the numbers at brick-and-mortar a little more tenuous, at best, in terms of what we’re

seeing.

[5:15 p.m.]

Have there been discussions with nations around the revenue agreement that brick-and-mortar

casinos have in order to operate within British Columbia in terms of a change of that

or an expectation of a change with that with the change in ownership as well?

Hon. Brenda Bailey : Casino sales, including the recent sales to First Nations, are private commercial

transactions. These sales are subject to standard closing conditions, regulatory approvals

and financial due diligence.

BCLC conducts financial due diligence before entering into an operational services

agreement, an OSA, as they would with any buyer, with a gambling services provider,

including assessments of financial risk and operational capacity.

The independent gambling control office, the IGCO…. Their role in casino sales is

regulatory due diligence. The IGCO is responsible for registering operating entities

and senior employees under the Gaming Control Act, the GCA, and ensuring operators

comply with GCA and supporting regulations.

Consistent with other commercial transactions, the province does not impose additional

conditions on casino sales beyond the current due diligence and regulatory approvals.

Peter Milobar : Well, let me be a little bit more specific, because that did not touch on the meat

of the question.

Specifically, have there been any requests that a casino that is either wholly or

partly owned by a First Nation be allowed to remit less revenue to the province for

reconciliation purposes?

[5:20 p.m.]

Hon. Brenda Bailey : The member has asked whether there are requests from First Nations in regards to

the commission’s structure with casino purchases. Yes, there have been requests that

have been historic — and also, I think, one that is current — that we look at a change

in the commission’s structure through a reconciliation lens.

But I will share with the member that there are no such formal agreements in place

and no formal requests of that nature on the table, currently. We do also receive

requests for commission structure changes from municipal governments as well as First

Nations.

Peter Milobar : Have BCLC and the government taken any review of the impact and the potential impact

of the provisions with DRIPA in relation to these requests moving forward?

We have a court case right now where a hydro project that was bought into and signed

off on a contract by a First Nation at a set rate is now being taken to court because

under DRIPA, they feel that they should be getting it at a different rate with B.C.

Hydro in terms of the rate paid for the power generated.

What type of lens has the government put on these agreements with the potential moving

forward under the provisions of DRIPA?

[5:25 p.m.]

Hon. Brenda Bailey : BCLC considers these transactions commercial transactions, which, of course, they

are, where a licence is being assigned from an existing contract to a new purchaser,

a new operator.

BCLC does have a consultation process, as one would expect, for any substantial change.

The BCLC consultation process is guided by the Indigenous reconciliation plan. I’ll

give you an example of a time when consultation occurred recently with the expansion

of the Parq casino. BCLC consulted in regards to that change.

The Chair : Member for Kelowna Centre.

Peter Milobar : Wrong K town, Madam Chair.

The Chair : Kamloops Centre.

Peter Milobar : Very few things I like to correct in the transcript, but that one I have to, or I

get run out of Kamloops.

The reason I’m asking these questions is because…. And there is a difference, frankly,

between an operator being consulted about more slot machines coming on the gaming

floor or the product mix on the gaming floor and discussions with a nation that is

looking to acquire and/or operate and provide the exact same operation as they’re

acquiring it.

I ask that because my understanding, and the minister can correct me if I’m wrong,

is that we have 16 gaming centres in the province, and ten are now First-Nations owned.

Two of them, I believe, are specifically on First Nations land. The rest are not.

I don’t take issue with First Nations seeing this as an economic avenue for their

nation or anything like that at all. I understand they’re paying market value, and

they’re making an investment decision as any other industry can.

But we also have to recognize that there is a different expectation of a First Nation

ownership group, potentially, under the provisions of DRIPA than if I got a conglomerate together and went off to buy a casino or a gaming centre.

That’s just the political reality of British Columbia as we stand here today.

What I’m not hearing from the minister, though, is whether or not those discussions

have, in fact, been taking place at a serious level, whether or not there’s just unilateral….

There is nothing to negotiate or discuss about the remittance structure of a gaming

centre. Whether it’s Indigenous owned or non-Indigenous owned, none of those rules

change.

Again, in the backdrop of some of the other cases that we’re seeing coming forward,

things can change. Now, I’m not saying that the government has agreed to change. What

I’m trying to find out is whether or not those discussions have been taking place.

We’re talking about an industry that is struggling. Let’s be honest about it. At a

brick-and-mortar level, it is struggling. They provide a great entertainment value

in the communities they’re in. They provide great dollars back to the community in

terms of the local host program and the community gaming grants that get generated

from the money there, the general revenue that gets generated to government.

[5:30 p.m.]

Obviously, B.C. Lottery is in my riding, quite literally in my riding, Kamloops Centre. We’d be in big trouble if they moved the headquarters to Kelowna Centre, so stay in Kamloops Centre.

I’m not trying to be down on the industry at all, but they’ve had challenges post

COVID. That’s no great secret. They’re stable, but they’re not maybe where they would’ve

liked to have been. So purchasers may see an opportunity is coming in, but purchasers

could also be seeing an opportunity when you have…. And my understanding is these

acquisitions…. The vast majority are since January of 2025 — of those ownerships that

I’m talking about, those ten.

There seems to be a shift over the last year — quite literally a year, a year and

a half — of “this seems like a good investment vehicle for our nation to get into,”

when most others in the gaming sphere are looking at the books and saying: “I don’t

know that the bottom line is necessarily there for us to jump in and buy out a competitor.”

But if you didn’t have to have the same remittance structure to the government as

those other ones do, suddenly the books would look very differently, and we’re talking

about $425 million annually at the gaming centres that those ten would be generating,

by my calculation.

What discussions have been had? Has there been a very clear, emphatic, “No, we are

not changing the structure,” or is it still an ongoing conversation with government

and First Nations around the government remittance policies and percentages and structure

around casinos and gaming centres and bingo halls in British Columbia, depending on

the ownership?

[5:35 p.m.]

Hon. Brenda Bailey : There are still lots of folks making money at land-based casinos. I’ll share with

the member that it’s a different model that the First Nations who’ve bought these opportunities are employing.

Look, for example, at the Great Canadian Casino. Their departure created an opportunity

for First Nations to purchase those assets. Great Canadian Casino is owned by Apollo

Management, which is a private equity firm. Their objectives are a little bit different

than the objectives of the nation who’ve bought some of these assets.

The objectives differ in that they are longer term for the nations. It’s really about

local ownership. It’s about creating jobs. It’s about long-term investment in their

community, instead of just pulling a fast buck and worrying about shareholder numbers

and getting money out in a more quick timeline and really is seen as a long-term investment.

I understand that there have been investment dollars