April 29, 1997

GOVERNMENT SERVICES ESTIMATES COMMITTEE

The Committee met at 9:00 a.m. in the House of

Assembly Chamber.

CHAIR (Mr. R. Wiseman): Order, please!

For the record, my name is Ralph Wiseman. I am

Chair of the Government Services Committee.

This morning we have with us the Department of

Government Services and Lands, to review their Estimates. The procedures have

not changed, the minister will have a fifteen-minute opening remark if he so

wishes and we will have fifteen minutes to respond and will alternate every ten

minutes.

I will introduce to you the members of the

Committee: Robert French, Gerald Smith and Doug Oldford.

I want to welcome the Minister and his staff and

ask him if he would introduce his staff. So, Minister, if you would, introduce

your staff and then we will have the Clerk call the Heads.

MR. McLEAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

We certainly appreciate the opportunity to appear

before the Committee. Before we get started, I would like to introduce the staff

I have with me: I have Barbara Wakeham, the Deputy Minister here on my left;

next to her is Wilson Barfoot, the ADM for Lands; Mike Dwyer, the ADM for

Government Services; Winston Morris, the ADM for Commercial and Corporate

Affairs; and we also have Ken Curtis, our Budget Officer, who is actually, I

suppose, employed with Municipal and Provincial Affairs, but the three

departments cost-share the administrative portion of the department, so he is

representing that portion of it.

I have an opening statement that we have prepared

because it is a new department with only one year in; and we have a number of

certainly different divisions, so I would start off with a prepared statement.

Mr. Chairman, since the creation of this department

in March 1996, Government Services and Lands have brought together most of the

government permitting, licensing and regulatory functions, and has taken many

steps to improve the business climate in this Province, to increase consumer

protection and to promote efficient and effective use of our Crown Land

resources. This process is not yet complete. In fact, we are looking at other

program areas which might logically fit into this department, and we are also

looking at services currently offered by the Federal Government to see if they

might be delivered under agreement by the Department of Government Services and

Lands.

Mr. Chairman, the Lands branch of my department is

responsible for all aspects of administering Crown lands resources of the

Province and that includes: surveying and mapping, development and multi-use

land management plans, and also securing and guaranteeing land titles. One of

the Province's most important natural resources, of course, is land itself,

particularly Crown lands.

Currently, Crown lands cover about 95 per cent of

the land mass in the Province and our Crown holdings provide much of the forest,

mineral, wildlife. agriculture, recreational and major water resources. The Land

branch is responsible for management of approximately ninety-five million acres

of Crown lands and has a budget of $ 4 million.

The Commercial and Corporate Affairs branch of my

department facilitates business operations in the Province and ensures that

consumers are protected. This branch is responsible for the regulation of the

insurance industry, the trust and loan industry, the credit union industry, the

real estate industry and the securities industry; collection agencies, mortgage

brokers, automobile dealers, provincial lotteries and private investigation

agencies. It is also responsible for fire-arms requisition and registration; the

registration of deeds, companies, bills of sale and landlord-tenant relations.

Mr. Chairman, the regulation of all

provincially-registered financial institutions has now been incorporated into

this branch. This provides for a more efficient regulatory system, and you would

probably remember a lot of the amendments to the legislation that we have been

bringing through is updating all this so that the department can be responsible

for it.

The branch has eliminated the annual requirements

for the industries it regulates and has replaced them with a one-time continuous

licensing system, which is a fairly substantial step. It has also discontinued

the licensing of individuals in industries where a qualifying examination is not

required. This reduces red tape for companies and individuals in these

industries without reducing consumer protection. The Commercial and Corporate

Affairs branch has a budget of $3.13 million.

The Government Services branch provides one-stop

shopping for processing of various permits, licences, approvals and inspections

pertaining to public health and safety, highway safety, driver and vehicle

registration, controlled use of land and environmental issues, building

branch has addressed many inefficiencies in the system and has eliminated

duplication of services provided by a myriad of agencies. The branch has a

budget of $14.9 million.

In the Budget, the Department of Government

Services and Lands announced it would eliminate the residential tenancies

boards, introduce a one licence plate program for passenger vehicles, introduce

a one validation sticker program for all vehicles, and privatize driver

examinations within six months.

Mr. Chairman, with respect to the elimination of

the tenancies boards, I believe this measure will be viewed favourably by the

landlords and tenants alike. Disputes will be resolved in a simpler, less

formal, and less intimidating manner. All court time will be saved as complaints

and decisions will not have to be registered through the court system. The $50

court fee will be eliminated. Tenants, in particular, have complained about

having to pay this fee, and about the court process because of the time lag.

Officials of the court have also raised concerns about the court time taken up

by this current process. While disputes will now be handled by the residential

tenancies division of the department, landlords and tenants will still have the

right of appeal to the courts.

With respect to the one plate program for passenger

vehicles, and the one sticker program for all vehicles, I would like to point

out that seven of the twelve Canadian jurisdictions currently use this concept.

A number of jurisdictions that still use the two plates use only one sticker in

that process. Those stickers are generally always displayed on the rear plates.

This measure will also enable the general public to display personalized plates

on the front of their vehicles. It will also boost the vanity plate business. So

if you like the Montreal Canadians or something like that, you can stick your

plate on the front there, Anthony. Good stuff?

Mr. Chairman, with respect to our intention to

privatize driver examinations, I would like to say that the department believes

this service can be provided by the private sector without any loss of levels of

service. In fact, we believe the levels of service may increase because of the

privatized services. It may be offered in areas where we currently do not offer

those services, and it may be open outside of regular business hours that we

generally run, so we do not foresee any downgrading of service. Certainly, while

government will lose the revenues from these fees, there will be a net saving to

government due to the reduction in operational costs. Existing staff will be

pre-qualified to provide this service, and the department will hold discussions

with existing staff to determine if they are interested in the proposed service.

Government Services and Lands is a service-oriented

arm of government that is seeking to improve the business climate in the

Province, to ensure consumer protection, and to ensure our land resources are

managed properly. My department currently manages a budget of $22.8 million, and

that nets out to $19.5 million. We have a staff of 480 employees: 456 permanent,

and the rest are contractual or temporary. It has regional and sub-regional

offices throughout the Province, and we administer over 100 legislative Acts.

The Department of Government Services and Lands

achieved a 15.3 per cent net budget reduction over 1996 in supporting

government's overall fiscal objectives, and it has exceeded its targets over the

three-year projection to the year 2000. We do not anticipate any significant

impact on human resources over the next two years excepting what would normally

occur through attrition and retirement.

Certainly, Mr. Chairman, that concludes my opening

remarks. I have my officials here with me, and we would be delighted to answer

your questions or make comments on anything you might have to ask.

Thank you.

CHAIR: Thank you very much, Minister. I will

now ask the Clerk to call the head.

CLERK (Mr. J. Noel): Subhead 1.1.01.

CHAIR: Mr. French, you are going right into

questions.

MR. FRENCH: Yes.

Mr. Minister, I guess the same as last night, there

are some questions here concerning salaries. I do not want to sit here all

morning, I am sure, the same as you do not, to wait for somebody to find answers

for me on salaries; so if you wish, when I come to Salaries, if the answer is

not readily available, then I would ask one of your officials to make a note of

the salary; why the increase or the decrease; what positions, if any; who has

been hired or who has gone, that type of thing, and you could certainly forward

that on to our office afterwards in writing. I think that is what Minister

Bettney did last night, so if you want to do the same, that is fine with me.

On page 39, Salaries, there is - I guess it stands

out for a reason - it is only $6,900. It is a very small amount of money, and I

just wondered. There is a decrease in $6,900; why?

MR. McLEAN: Which line are you looking at?

MR. FRENCH: I am looking at 01, Salaries, under

Minister's Office. There is a decline of $6,900.

MR. McLEAN: That is under Minister's Office,

1.1.0l?

MR. FRENCH: Yes.

MR. McLEAN: Line 01?

MR. FRENCH: Yes.

MR. McLEAN: Okay.

MS WAKEHAM: The answer is that last year, when

we set up the department, the actual figures for Salaries were only estimated

and this is the true figure.

You will also find, Mr. French, in some of the

salaries, as you go, there are very small amounts. It is either a rounding off

that was done or it was because the estimates, because of the new department,

were not established with respect to each of the classifications, and in some

cases it is just a rounding up with respect to where there was a step increase

or decrease and some of the figures have changed, but you will not see a

substantial or significant amount except for those program areas where the

positions were changed this year.

MR. FRENCH: Okay, on Executive Support - come

down a bit. Again, in Salaries, there is a difference of $60,000.

MS WAKEHAM: Okay. Last year, if you look at the

revised, it says $506,000. We had permission from Treasury Board for a Director

of Communications position. We did not put the position in, or did not have

approval to put the position in, until September. Now what 1997 is showing is

the full cost of the position.

MR. FRENCH: Have we hired somebody in that

position?

MS WAKEHAM: That was a redeployment. That was

Mr. Callahan coming over from Executive Council to our department.

MR. McLEAN: He only started in September.

MS WAKEHAM: Yes.

MR. McLEAN: That is why the difference.

MR. FRENCH: On page 40, under Trade Practices

And Licensing, there is a difference again in Salaries of $25,400.

MS WAKEHAM: Yes. This reflects the change and

restructuring of the department in that particular branch, and the elimination

of a position. We combined two positions in one.

MR. FRENCH: So you say there was a position

eliminated?

MS. WAKEHAM: Yes. Basically, we had two

director positions. We combined them as a Director of Trade Practices and

Licensing instead of one - we had a Director of Trade Practices and a Director

of Licensing. We combined the two positions.

MR. FRENCH: Somebody was then laid off. You say

you -

MS WAKEHAM: It was a vacant position at the

time.

WITNESS: Due to retirement?

MS WAKEHAM: A retirement.

MR. FRENCH: Okay.

MS WAKEHAM: Yes, so normal attrition. We

combined and did a reorganization.

MR. McLEAN: It was all part of the

reorganization of the department. Because when we took a lot of the sections

from other departments we were able to combine some of the divisions. Therefore,

some of the positions were then made redundant.

MR. FRENCH: Come down to 2.1.01.03,

Transportation and Communications. It is increased by $10,100.

MS WAKEHAM: I would ask Mr. Morris to -

MR. MORRIS: The reason for the increase in

Transportation and Communications in that division is due to where we are doing

more examinations of our lotteries, real estate companies, and so on, outside of

St. John's. For a number of years now we have not had sufficient funding to do

proper examinations outside the St. John's area because of restrictions on

travel. We had requested more funding this year to allow us to do that and it

was approved.

MR. FRENCH: You say lottery. Would that be

like, say, Atlantic Lotto, that type of thing?

MR. MORRIS: No. We do not regulate Atlantic

Lotto. That is an organization that is owned by the four Atlantic Provinces, you

probably know. We regulate provincially-registered lotteries, such as bingos,

charities, you know, raffles and that sort of thing, around the Province.

MR. FRENCH: So Atlantic Lotto would come under

Finance, I guess, would it?

MR. MORRIS: That is correct, yes.

MR. FRENCH: Then I will save my questions on

Atlantic Lotto for Finance.

MR. McLEAN: Basically, Bob, the licensing that

we regulate is -

MR. FRENCH: Yes, I know.

MR. McLEAN: - just the general standard stuff

you get on your -

MR. FRENCH: Like Lions Club or whatever, yes.

MR. McLEAN: Yes, the charitable organizations.

CHAIR: For the record, I would like to welcome

Ed Byrne, the Member for Kilbride, who is also a Committee member.

MR. McLEAN: Good morning, Ed.

MR. E. BYRNE: Good morning.

MR. FRENCH: Okay - this is only a couple of

thousand dollars, I will not bother with that. What action has been taken to

increase Information Technology by $98,200? That is line 2.1.01.12. It has gone

from $44,800 to $143,000.

MR. McLEAN: We have looked at a new computer

program or a computer system or a new lottery licensing system, I suppose, if

you want to call it that. We have to bring everything up to a level now that we

can manage these things. In the past we have basically done all of this under

the old administrative or the old processes, but now we need to get into the

computer age. It is to enhance the lottery licensing system. There is also an

alert system. Now, somebody is going to have to tell me what the initials stand

for in - A-L-E-R-T system as well, to enhance that system. What is it?

MR. MORRIS: The ALERT system is a licensing

system we have for licensing all of our insurance agents, our real estate

agents, mortgage brokers, etcetera. It is fair to say, I guess, since that has

been put in place a number of years ago it has created a lot of difficulties, it

has not worked properly. So we have some money set aside to improve that. As

well, we require some changes to the system because, as was previously mentioned

in the minister's opening statement, we have gone to a continuous or one-time

licensing system instead of an annual licensing system. So that has required

some adjustments.

On the lotteries system as well now, what we are

doing there, we are going to have this computer system available in the

government service centres around the Province so that people outside of St.

John's can actually go to a government service centre and get a licence on-site

rather than having to get it from St. John's. So that is part of the computer

system for the lotteries as well.

CHAIR: I would like to interject, just for the

record, I thought that Mr. Anthony Sparrow, the MHA for Placentia, was here when

we did the introduction but he came in slightly late. So for the record, Anthony

Sparrow has joined us.

Go ahead Bob.

MR. FRENCH: If you could, go on to page 41,

Minister. Again, "Residential Tenancies; Appropriations provide for the

administration of the Residential Tenancies Act." Again, in Salaries there is a

difference of $42,000. Would that be where you joined up parts of the division?

MR. McLEAN: No, in this case, Bob, under that

salary level we provided funding for a Chair of the Residential Tenancies Board

for six months until September when we will be dropping the boards. I think

September, is it, the date that -

WITNESS: (Inaudible) the money is for

transition.

MR. McLEAN: We are disbanding the Residential

Tenancies Board. There was one Chair hired in place with the department and that

salary is for the half-year. That is why you see the reflection in the downturn

there from $375,000 to $333,000.

MR. FRENCH: I think you may have touched on it

in your opening address. So what happens now once we do away with the

Residential Tenancies Board? Are the hearings then - is it then a court thing?

How do we handle it?

MR. McLEAN: I will let the ADM describe that,

but we will be doing it in the department rather than going through the court

process initially. I will let Winst explain that to you, because it will be a

new system.

MR. MORRIS: The new system will be basically a

mediation process handled by the staff of the division. This system is in place

in a number of other provinces already, such as New Brunswick, Manitoba and

B.C., I think. Nova Scotia is implementing the same system. This will be much

more user-friendly for the people involved, tenants and landlords.

Many times you are dealing with very small amounts

of money with disputes, like security deposits and whatnot, minor damages done.

The previous system was where a tenant or a landlord had to go down to court and

pay $50 to get a complaint registered. The court would then refer that to a

tenancies board which would hold a hearing, make a decision and send the

decision back down to the court. The judge would have to review it and if he

agreed, sign it off; if he disagreed, go back to the court. This took a lot of

time, both from the court and ourselves and for the landlords and tenants.

So the new system will involve disputes to be

handled by our own staff. A decision is made and then if either the landlord or

the tenant disagreed, they have a right to appeal to the courts if they did not

agree with the decision of our own staff. As a result of this, we have six

tenancies boards now in the Province. Most of the members are part-time with one

full-time Chairman. So all of those positions will be eliminated and as you can

see, further on there will be substantial savings in travel and professional

services as well because of that.

MR. FRENCH: Transportation and Communications

has been reduced by $9,100.

MR. MORRIS: Yes, that is correct.

MR. FRENCH: Why would that be?

MR. McLEAN: Well, that is because the boards

are being eliminated. That is travel for the board members when they go to

hearings.

MR. FRENCH: Professional Services, of course,

there is nothing budgeted, and I would assume the same reasoning.

MR. MORRIS: Yes.

MS WAKEHAM: Mr. French, all of the changes you

see across all the accounts there are as a result of the elimination of the

Tenancies board.

MR. FRENCH: The $72,000 that we spent in

1996-1997, would those bills have been for legal advice?

MR. MORRIS: No, that is the per diems actually

paid to the part-time board members. They would get paid for every hearing they

attended. You could call that legal, I suppose, but most of them were not

lawyers. One or two of these people would be lawyers but most of them are not.

MR. FRENCH: So these would be actually sitting

members of the board.

MR. MORRIS: Yes.

MR. FRENCH: If we could go on down to 2.1.04,

Insurance and Pensions. The budget for Transportation and Communications is

increased by $16,800. I just wonder why.

MR. McLEAN: Because of the changes within the

department, we will be assuming the responsibilities from the Office of the

Superintendent of Financial Institutions Canada - for that reason. Maybe Winst

can explain it a little more, since he is more involved in that.

MR. MORRIS: Right now in Newfoundland we have

in the insurance industry a lot of agents and brokers that we regulate, but we

also have - we had five insurance companies, now we are down to four, through

buy-outs and so on. We have four local insurance companies. Newfoundland is

rather unique in that way, like in Atlantic Canada. None of the other provinces

have insurance companies per se that they regulate. For the last couple of years

we have had the Office of Superintendent of Financial Institutions Canada,

normally called OSFI, do these examinations for us. If you see the Professional

Services line down there, you see $108,000 last year. That is what we paid them

to do those examinations.

We are now training our own staff to do that work.

It is very specialized work in regulating insurance companies. In order to do

that we have had to send our staff to Toronto on two occasions for training, and

that is where you see the Employee Benefits up, as well, to $4,100 from $1,400

last year. It is because there are training courses involved with that which we

have had to send them on.

Another reason for the increase in travel - part of

it is two trips to Toronto for our staff. Another reason for the increase is

again, as we mentioned with the real estate side of it, we have not done any

examinations outside of St. John's with respect to our insurance agents and

brokers because of lack of travel funds. We identify a serious need to do that.

In fact, last year one insurance agent went out of business outside of St.

John's, and we want to do more examinations for those insurance agencies and

brokers outside the city. That is another reason why transportation has

increased.

MR. FRENCH: (Inaudible).

CHAIR: I will allow Mr. French to finish his

questions on that particular page, and then we will move on to Gerald.

MR. FRENCH: You may have partly answered this,

but under Professional Services, can the minister indicate where these budgeted

accounts came from, and which headings contained in the 1996-1997 Estimates are

combined in the 1997-1998 Estimates? Can the minister provide a breakdown of the

combined allocations based on the figures? Or again are we showing a reduction

here because of - well, I guess the question is: Why are we showing a reduction

here in Professional Services?

MS WAKEHAM: The reduction from the $108,000 to

$86,000 is the result of not having as much requirement for the office of the

Superintendent of Financial Institutions where we have our people trained up

now. We can undertake some of the services that would normally be provided by

them and, in fact, over the next two years, when our staff is fully trained,

they will not require any monies to cover that particular type of audit.

MR. FRENCH: Okay, and down at the bottom we

show Revenue Provincial $120,000. I am just curious as to where that comes from.

MS WAKEHAM: The revenue increase is as a result

of changes in the fee structure for the registration of pension plans which we

are also responsible for in the department.

MR. FRENCH: And that would come from - Would

you just repeat that answer again for me, please?

MS WAKEHAM: Companies that are required to

register pension plans for their employees, register with our department. We are

responsible for pension standards as opposed to Finance. It was a responsibility

that was transferred to our department last year. There has been an increase in

the registration fee itself and what you are seeing there, from $78,100 to

$120,000, is reflecting the increased fee for the registration of pension plans.

MR. FRENCH: Okay, thank you.

CHAIR: Mr. Smith.

MR. SMITH: Mr. Minister, there is one area that

I wanted to pursue for just a few minutes.

Just yesterday, we received a memo with regard to

the Vital Statistics Registry, that the office is being relocated, and looking

here in the Budget, I note that there is an increase over the amount to be voted

this year as compared to what was budgeted for last year, while the actual

expenditure has exceeded the budgeted amount. I wonder if you could just speak

in general terms as to the reasons behind making the move. Does this signal some

sort of a re-organization within that area or, just generally, why is this move

being made at this specific time?

MR. MERCER: Gerald, what we are trying to do is

to decentralize the service somewhat - not so much decentralize it, we want to

still provide the service here, but we want to get that service for the vital

statistics areas out into the regions, so that it will enable people to go to

the government service centres and do the business they have to do there

completely, not just passing in an application form and some time later on, you

get, you know, your certificate or card, or whatever, back in the mail. What we

are trying to do is to disperse that service so that it is offered in every area

that we offer the government service centres, so that we can have, you know, a

service that is across the Province complete in the vital statistics areas,

which we do not have right now.

MR. SMITH: Okay, but does that explain why we

are - and I guess my question pertains more to: why are we relocating it? Right

now, it is situated within Confederation Building. My understanding is, it is

being relocated elsewhere in town. Are we putting that into a rental area or is

this going into a government-owned building or just what exactly is it?

MR. McLEAN: The service actually has left the

Confederation Building and gone to our service centre in St. John's, Mews Place.

MR. SMITH: Alright.

MR. McLEAN: It has gone in because it is a part

of the servicing aspect of our department and we have put it in with all the

other services that are offered in the St. John's area through Mews Place and

this will be applicable to all of the others: Clarenville, Gander, Corner Brook,

Goose Bay, Grand Falls and those areas as well.

MR. SMITH: Okay, that is fine. Thank you very

much; that is it for me, Mr. Chairman.

CHAIR: Okay. I will go to Mr. Byrne.

MR. E. BYRNE: Sure. Dealing with page 43,

subhead 3.1.01, Motor Vehicle Registration. I am just looking at the salary

increase in Administration, up from $442,000 last year, to $562,900. Have there

been two, three four, or a number of positions added to Administration or, what

caused that increase by approximately $120,000?

MR. McLEAN: Ed, we have opened a new Government

Service Centre in Wabush, Labrador and this reflects these three employees or

four? One-and-a-half employees that we have added to that service centre in

Wabush which was not there before.

MR. E. BYRNE: I understand. What services are

being offered at the Government Service Centre in Wabush?

MR. McLEAN: Full service.

MR. E. BYRNE: Pardon me?

MR. McLEAN: Full service.

MR. E. BYRNE: Could you explain a little bit

for me, please.

MR. DWYER: The service that you receive in Lab

City with respect to motor vehicle registration is the same you would receive in

Corner Brook or Grand Falls and St. John's. The one exception is the

interprovincial plates. They are only given out of St. John's, so, in essence,

it is full service.

MR. E. BYRNE: Okay. I guess the people in

Wabush are certainly pleased with that addition to their area. In Driver

Examination and Vehicle Inspection, there has been a $325,000 reduction in

Salaries. I guess that is a result of the examinations being contracted out, is

that correct?

MR. McLEAN: Yes, the driver examinations will

reflect that.

MR. E. BYRNE: Has that service been completely

contracted out as of today? Is it still in the process? What are the target

dates for it?

MR. McLEAN: We are still in the process of

working out the whole set-up. Our target date really I think is October 1, to

see the service being into private hands. One of the things we are trying to do

is ensure that the present driver examiners get the first crack at taking this

service over, if they so desire. We had to figure out who is eligible for

retirement, some of them want to retire, some of them want to do this, some of

them do not want to do it. So we are trying to work all of these things out and

we gave ourselves six or seven months to get this done.

MR. E. BYRNE: And the budgetary figure here of

$325,000 less in salaries would reflect a saving over six months, not a saving

over a full year. Is that correct?

MR. McLEAN: Yes, that is right.

MR. E. BYRNE: Have you had any expressions of

interest other than the people who offered the exams, the employees themselves,

for the consolidation of this service?

MR. McLEAN: Yes, we are getting some interest

from sources other than the driver examiners themselves, in different areas.

MR. E. BYRNE: Is it a service that government

plans to tender out once they are along the way or put a request for proposals

at some point?

MR. McLEAN: Yes, we will do that. As I said,

first we will consider the current examiners. Their opportunity will be the

first, then, if they are not interested, we will certainly look at other parties

that may be interested or expressing an interest. We will be sitting down and

talking to those people.

MR. E. BYRNE: Okay. In subhead 3.1.03, Licence

And Registration Processing, just a couple of questions. In Purchased Services,

last year there was $156,100 spent, this year budgeted $15,900. Why was there an

increase anticipated? Obviously, something happened, because it was not being

budgeted for.

MS WAKEHAM: When Treasury Board was inputting

its figures, they made a key-in error. There was $150,000 that was supposed to

have been put in last year and was supposed to be in Supplies to cover the

licences, the stickers and the forms. Anyway, when they made the input this

year, they keyed it in inappropriately. The actual figure is supposed to be

$18,400, not $156,100. If you look at the category above it, Supplies, which is

showing $182,000 going to $266,000, that was supposed to be $320,200. This is a

result of a key-in error by the Department of Finance.

MR. E. BYRNE: Okay. On page 44, dealing with

subhead 3.2.01, Support Services and Permitting and Inspection Services, there

has been an increase in Salaries again of roughly about $100,000 from $809,300

to $908,000. Could you give just a brief explanation in terms of where you are

going in that area?

MR. McLEAN: Okay. The additional monies there

was for additional staff we certainly required to handle some of the work

generated by the anticipated Voisey's Bay smelter operation, the Voisey's Bay

centre itself, the offshore oil developments, and there were some other private

sector developments that we had to be prepared to deal with on a fairly

accelerated basis. Our current staff levels did not permit that, so in order for

us not to slow down the project in terms of the permitting and the licensing,

and things like that, we had to hire some additional staff to get this in place.

MR. E. BYRNE: So what positions were added, and

a description of the positions? What positions would have been added to maintain

the level of services?

MR. DWYER: It would be a mechanical engineer

and a boiler pressure vessel inspector, and those two positions are primarily

for a two-to-three-year period during the stage where the facilities would be

constructed and design approvals required.

MR. E. BYRNE: Okay. Thanks.

MS WAKEHAM: I would like to also add that these

are temporary personnel, and the increase in the amount of work and the fees

associated with the permits will offset the monies that are required for the

additional staff.

MR. E. BYRNE: Okay.

Under Purchased Services, there has been an

increase of about $72,000. Why the increase, and what would it be for?

MS WAKEHAM: That is a switch-over in terms of

the monies for Vital Statistics and the changes in Residential Tenancies that

are moved to Mews Place, so that we can provide the service at a regional level.

MR. E. BYRNE: Okay.

The last question I have, Mr. Chair, deals with

property, furnishings and equipment directly under Purchased Services. In the

1996-1997 budget it was budgeted for $43,500, actually spent $143,500, and

budgeted again this year $43,700. Why the $100,000 increase? Is that a key-in

error as well?

MR. McLEAN: No. Last year, Ed, we had to

purchase five replacement vehicles.

MR. E. BYRNE: Fair enough.

MR. McLEAN: That is why that was there.

MR. E. BYRNE: Alright.

That is all, Mr. Chair.

CHAIR: Since there are no questions from the

government members, Mr. French, if you want to continue you may.

MR. FRENCH: On page 45 there is an increase in

Salaries, under Regional Services, Minister, of $203,400. I just want to know

why.

MR. McLEAN: Okay, that is line 01 on Regional

Services, Bob?

MR. FRENCH: Yes, Salaries.

MR. McLEAN: Okay.

MS WAKEHAM: There have been a number of

switches as a result of picking up different activities; $352,700 is associated

with the liquor corporation, the transfer of the inspection services from the

liquor corporation to government services, to the regional operations. There has

also been a decrease as a result of program review reflected in the amount, so

this is not a clear amount. This is some activity, some services that have gone

in, and some that have been decreased, and this is the net amount.

MR. FRENCH: That is it for me, Mr. Chairman.

CHAIR: Thank you very much, Mr. French.

WITNESS: (Inaudible).

CHAIR: You want more money from C.B.S.?

WITNESS: (Inaudible).

MR. FRENCH: What was that?

CHAIR: We were wondering if you had any money

that we could get from Conception Bay South.

I sense there are no more questions, so I will ask

the Clerk to call the subheads.

CLERK (J. Noel): Subheads 1.1.01 through

4.1.05.

On motion, subheads 1.1.01 through 4.1.05, carried.

On motion, Department of Government Services and

Lands, total heads, without amendment, carried.

MR. FRENCH: Mr. Chairman, if I might, I would

like to thank the minister and his staff for taking the time to come here and

answer the questions this morning in the manner in which they have done.

We had a fairly lengthy meeting last night but it

was a good meeting and the minister was like yourself this morning; they had the

staff, and if there was a question the minister could not answer then we

certainly got the answer from the staff. I thank you, Mr. Minister, for coming

this morning and bringing your staff.

MR. McLEAN: I thank you for the opportunity to

appear, but let me say to you that the department is here all year round, too,

so if you do have any enquiries at any time throughout the year we are always

here to take the enquiries and answer the questions for you.

CHAIR: On behalf of the Committee, Minister, I

would like to thank you and your staff for a superb job. It was a pleasure to

have you and your staff here. You have done a great job in responding to the

questions asked. Thank you very much, and we look forward to meeting you again

next year under the same circumstances.

I now ask for a motion to adjourn. Thank you very

much.

On motion, Committee adjourned.