Volume XLI Monday PROPERTY OF NV\\-' FG~.J7tt){~-­ LEGISLATIVE LJBRAR*r PLEASE RETURN Province of Newfoundland FORTY -FIRST GENERAL ASSEMBLY · OF NEWFOUNDLAND · First Session VERBATIM REPORT (Hansard) Speaker: Honourable Thomas Lush Number 7 5 June 1989

The House met at 2:00 p.m . MR. SPEAKER (lush): Order, please! The hon . the Leader of the O.p p o s it i o n . I am s orr y , thE! h o n . the Opposition House Leader . MR. SIMMS: Mr. ~peaker, the Leader Opposition and I are bum and cheek to cheek, as Mr . would say. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR . SIMMS: of thE! to bum CrosbiE! Mr . Speaker, the GoVE!rnrnent House Leader and I had a discussion earlier today lAJ'.i th respE!Ct to advisability of putting forth a short resolution for brief debate, after which rnernbE•rs of the House would vote on the resolution without any further debate.

It deals lAJith the issue in Beijtng, whJ .ch everybody is famJ .liar with . The Government House U:!ader has agreed to allow a member from this sidE! to preSE!I1t the resolution l-or five minutes, then somebody from the other side will speak for five minutes and then put it to a vote. There are people in the gaJ.lery. I think, r'E!presenting that community. fhe hon . the GovernmE!nt House Leader. MR. BAKER : Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

In our conversations earlier this rnornJ ng we agrE•E!d that in view of the sudden and shocking brutal happE!nings in Tienanman SquarE!. and nearby, i.n Beijing, and in view of the concern of a number of ~: .:,u-:!se students who arE! in Newfoundland, that we would agree L32 0 June 5, 1989 Vol XLI to aJ.low this resolution to be presented and that there be a very short spE!ech giVE!n. My understanding is that i.t would have been under Orders of the Day, just at {:hat point, rather than earlier on.

I would suggest to the Opposition House Leader that if the member who is presenting it would be ready after Petitions and just before OrdE!rs of ·LhE! Day, it would probably be a more appropriate time. MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker, we have no problem u.dth that. ThE!rE! ar'E ! representatives of the community in the ga11ery, and that was thE· only reason we thought we would proceed. But I am surE! they l1Ji11 be happy to stay around and we will do it when we gE!t to OrdE!rs of the Day. That is finE!. MR.

SPEAKER : Before getting into the busines of l:he day. tAle lAJould likE! {:o tJJelcume some visj .tors to the Gal1E!ry clnd , in line tJJith t:he Opposition House Leader, say, on behalf of hon. JnCmbU Y'\': . 1.; c:• IAIOU}d likE! to WE!}COinC~ to thE! gal1E!ry t.tAJo student:s from the People's Republtc of China, studying at Memoria]. University. The two students are, Hem Dong U .F!U and Boyiong Yuan. I apoJ.ogizt:~ if _ ThE! Cha:i r' s pronunciation is not right on; I profe ss no efficiency in th e Chine se language.

Th 0se ar e th e two people who were the organ izers of the peaceful demon stration by Ch ine se students in St. John' s yes terday , ~upport of the student act iviti es wh ich are taking place in Ch ina. SOME HON . MEMBERS : ·~:j"(: a r ,---·hE;- a r ! .. _._ MR. SPEAKER: No. 7 1\320 . r

I would also like to welcome to the Galleries today fifty-two students, Grades 1V to lX, with their te.:-~chers William Sellars, Calvin Janes, Clarence Green and Martin Brewer. These students come from Grace Elementary and St. Martin • s High Schools in Dunville. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hE!ar! MR. SPEAKER : I would also like to welcome a delegation from .the Gander District Hospital Board, represented by three pE!Ople: Ernest Batstone, Director of Financing; Wayne Lewis, Director of Information Syst:erns; and Peter Lush, Director of Development and Public Relations. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hE!ar!

Statements by Ministers MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Premier . PREMIER WELLS: Mr . Speaker, I would like to t:ell thE! House today of the action thE! government has taken with r·espr:!ct to its commitment to establish an economic recovery Province. tE!am in the During the past decade, the economic pe!rformance of Newfoundland and Labrador has not kept pace with the growth experienced on average throughout Canada or even in the Atlantic Provinces. As a result, unemployment reached record peaks and has remainr::~d at twice t:he national rate of unemployment for about the last five years.

L3 21 June 5, 1989 Vol XLI Population has even begun to decline and not only does the Provincial Government rely on thE! Federal Government for 50 per cent of its rE!Venue but increasing numbers of our citizens are relying on direct federal payments, usually th the for·m of unemployment insurance, for their income. Economists tell us that this Province suffered proportionately more from the recession of the early 1980s than any area of Canada, and we have never reaJ.ly fully recovered.

Some growth in employment and other economic indicators have been "in evidence in the past two years or so but that growth is associated t~.r.ith a shift from the resource-based goods producing sector into the service industriE:~s and rE!Lail trade. There is a growtng dependence on seasonal and part time jobs. These trE!nds explain thE• apparant anomaly of slightly irnprov:Lng employment figures occurring at the same tirne that record nurnbrars of people are receiving unemployment insurance. The annual average for 1988 was 71,193, an increase of 3,S20 over 1987.

In Mar·ch of this yE,ar an alarm:ing 99,000 people lAJE!re in receipt of unemployment :insurancE' payments. Both lE!Vels of government haVE! b.:~en resorting to creat:".ing job opportunities solE!ly for the express purpoSE! of enabling people to qualify to receive unemployment ins u ran c e . L i tl: 1 e e f for· l: :l s be i n g made by Ed.ther thE! Federal or· Provincial Governments to crE!atE! a situation that will promote or induce long term job opportunities for our unemployed people. No. 7 R321

The real victims in this situation are our young pE!ople. The largest increases in unemployment insurance recipients have been recorded among workers under the age of 34, with an alarming rise in the 25 - 34 age bracket. There are an estimated 3 5, 000 young Newfoundlanders and Labradorians who are regular recipients of unemployment insurance. In reality, we have created over the past decade an entire generation of people who accept unemployment insurance as a way of life. We cannot, in conscience, allow this situation to continue if it is humanly possible to reverse it.

We must make economic recovery a top priority in order to provide our people, particularly our younger members of the work force, with an opportunity to obtain good paying jobs and at the same tii'IIE! creatE! new wealth for the Province so that the government wiJ.l have revenues adequate to provide the social programs that our people so desperately need . The government is therefore committed to making economic recovery a first priority. That is why we undertook to put an Economic Recovery Team in place within thirty days of being sworn :in as the Governmc:!nt of this Province.

Over !:he past two weeks or so an interim committee was established and it planned !:he structure and established the broad mandate of !:he team. Individuals w'.ith outstanding credentials and expertise were appr·oached and !:hey have willingly accepted the challenge. It gives me great pleasure today to rE:~port that thE! process has now been largely completed and it has been achieved L322 June 5, 1989 Vol XLI within the thirty taking office. d<.~y s after The government has now decided that the Economic Recovery Team l:o which WE! have belen referd.ng wi11 take the form of a commision.

It will operate as an independent commission, similiar to the Workers' Compensation Commission, and wil.l answer directly to the Premier. It will consist of a Chairman and four other Commissioners who wjJ.l bettJ.JE!en them supervise all aspE!Cts of the performance of the commisssion's mandate. It is intended that they are to be full time paid empJ.oyees working and dedicated solely to that function. Legislation wiJ.l be introduced to create a co1nmission, spell out its mandate and providE! for its authority and it:s operating procedures.

Stated simply, its mandate would be to use all of the information and resources available from both the Provincial and Federal. goVE!r'nfTIE!nl:s to identify every conceivable business, commercial or productiVE! opportunity in the Province and ensure that interested individuals, companies, dnd co--operatives arE! provide!d wj th t:he advice, guidance or other means necessary to take advantage of all such opportunities and in the process provide job opportunities for the thousands of our people who are unemployE!d. While the Economic Recovery Commission w:i.J.l r·eport to Uw Premier, nei t:her t:hE!

Premier· nor any other agency or arm of government w:i.ll seek to direct in any way their day-to-day operations or t:he mannE!r in tJJhich they arE! to carry out thE-ir mandate. The Commission tJJi.ll be given the responsibility to No. '7 1n22

achieve thE:~ results. The members of the Commission and :i.ts staff are best qualified to determine the means by which the mandate can be implemented. While it is the Commission that will have the responsibility and wi J l be expected to carry out thE! mandate and achieve the desired resuJ.t, it is aJso recognized that they can of course benefit from advice from others.

Accordingly, in addition to the Economic Recovery Commission the legislation will provide for an Economy Recovery Advisory Board that will be a volunteer group made up of pe!ople fr·om all parts of the Province and from a variety of backgrounds who have records of achievement and contribution to the economic and social life of the Province.

That advisory group will provide advice on all matters relating to economic recovery to both the Premier and the government and the Economic Recovery Commission, edthe!r on the initiative of the Economic Recovery Advisory Board i.tself or at the request of r::dUlE!r l:he Premier and the government or the Economic Recovery Commission. The Economic Recovery Commission wi 11 bE! headed by Dr. Douglas House, as Chairman. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hE!ar! PREMIER WELLS: The Government is confident that Dr.

House is thE! individual that the vast majority of the people in this Province wouJ.d, if thE!Y were given the chance to do so, choose to be the Chairman of this Commission. His wor·k as Chairman of the Royal Commission on Employment and UnemploymE•nt to~.li .ll have a permanent place in our L3 23 June 5, 1989 Vol XLI history, and in the history of Canada. That work conta'ins an exciting blueprint For the economtc and social future of !:he Province. HE! is unqUE!StionabJ.y better informed, better prepared and better qualified for this task than any other pE!rson in Lhe Province.

The governrnE!nt is gra tE!ful to Dr . House for agreeing to · accE!pt this new and vi t.aJ. challenge. Dr . House will be joined on the Commission by four other very able and experienced people. Wayne Humphries ts an econotnic development consultant who worked full-time with Dr. House and l·:he members of the Royal Commission on Employment and Unemployment in doing research and a variety of other tasks in connection with t.hat Royal Cormnissj .on.

HE! is originally from Valleyfield, Bonavista Bay, and has recently been doing extensive consulting work for a variety of municipal councils and othE!r publ. ic organizati,ons in aJ l parts of thE:. Province. He too is E!tn-inent.ly qualified by knowledge, training . and experience to serve on this Commission. Din. Barbara Garnberg is origina11y from Corner Brook and holds a Ph .D. from UlE! Un:iVE!rsit.y of Marsielle. She taught at Mernor·ial University Faculty of Bus :inE!SS r·or nine YE!ars before enter·ing the businc::•ss wor·ld. Recently sl-w has done consulting wotnk For ACOA.

ShE! is currently par·t Ol.I.JnE:•r of a number of St. John's businesses. Peter O'Brien is originally from Buchans. For the past fifteen years he has been wotnk ing in Halifax as Director of Provinc:iaJ Affairs for LhE! Atlantic Provinces off:i.ce of the Canadian FederaU .on No. 7 R323

""" of Independent Business. As such he was responsible for representing the concerns of thousands of independent business firms in NE!Wfoundland and the other Atlantic Provinces. He will bring to the Commission all of those years of experience with the promotion of the interests of small and medium-sized businesses and the knowledge of how such business endeavours operate, not only in the other Atlantic Provinces but in the res't of Canada as well.

The fifth member of the Commission is a person knowledgeable and experienced in business activities and enterprise in Newfoundland and wjll bring to the Commission substantial knowledge, experience and competence. Unfortunately, due to existing employment commitments the name of that commissioner cannot immediately be released. It is expected that the commissioner will be nc:~med within the next few days. The Economic Recovery Advisory Board wi] J. be chaired by Mr. Harold Lundrigan of Corner Brook. Mr. Lundrigan 1 s credentials and achievements are well-known to the whole of the Province.

He is the Pas t-Chai rrnan of l:he Econorni c Council of Newfoundland and Labrador and one of t-he Province 1 s best known and most successful industrialists. He has also served the Province faithfully over the years in a variety of voluntary offices. He brings to the Advisory Board knowledge, experience, judgement and integrity that is l:he envy of everybody who knows Mr·. Lundrigan well. The Government is particularly grateful to Mr . Lundrigan for agreeing to once again voluntarily undertake a major public duty for t:he good of L324 JunE:~ 5, 1989 Vol XLI the Province and its people .

It is planned that there wiJ.l bE! approximately twelve people on the Economic Recovery Advisory Board. To date a number have agreed to serve, nine, in addition to Mr. Lundrigan, so far: Mr. Campbell Eaton of St. John 1 s, is a distinquished war veteran and a long-time Manager of Newfoundland Tractor and Equipment Co . Ltd . but now retired. He remains a director of the Royal Bank of Canada. Like Mr. Lundrigan he aJ.so has SE!rved thE! Province well in a large number of volunteer capacities. Mr. Eaton will be Vice-Chairman of the Economic Recovery Advisory Board. Mr.

Gerald Smtth of Port au Por ·t is the Past-President of the Newfoundland and Labrador Rural Development Council. He is knowledgeable and experienced in -the needs of rural Newfoundland and Labrador and in the work of rural developm(~nt associations throughout the Province. Ms. Shirley Frost is the ManagE!r of SheJ.J.bird Cable UmitE!d in Corner Brook, as well as a Director and owner of a travel agency business, having offices in St. John 1 s and Corner Brook. Ms. Frost is also the Past -President of the Corner Brook Chamber of Commerce. Mr.

Victor Young is weJ.l .. ·-knou.m throughout the Province as the Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Fisherjes Products International. He is also I;.H:~ll-known as thE! forrner Cha:lrrnan and Chief Executive Officer of NewfoundJ.and and Labrador Hydro and prior to that was a senior pubJ.ic se•rvant in the GOVE!rnment of this Province. No . 7 R32lJ.

Mr. Robert Davis is the PresidE!nt and an owner of GJovertown Shipyard Ltd. He is a professional engineer and is at the moment operating Glovertown Shipyard which builds steel-hulled fishing vessels up to 110 feet in length. Mr. Jerome Walsh is the Mayor of Marystown and President of the Newfoundland and Labrador Federation of Mayors and Municipalities. He is also · past President of the Industrial Union of Marine and Shipbuilding Workers of Canada. In 1982, he was Vice-Chairman of the South Coast Fisheries Crisis Committee. Dr. Angus Bruneau is the President of Newfoundland Light and Power Co.

U .mi ted and the President and Chief Executive Officer of Fortis Inc., the parent company of Newfoundland Light and Power. Dr. Bruneau is also a distinquished educator who established the co-op program in Memorial's School of Engineering . Ms. FranCE!S Nichols of Grand Falls is a chartered accountant and a former partner of Doane, Raymond in Grand FalJ.s. She has spent aJl her business career in Grand Falls. She is a former member of the Board of Regents of Memorial UniVE!rsi ty and a former membE!r of the Economic Council of Newfoundland and Labrador.

She also has served the Province in a number of volunteer capacities. Mr. Stan Pike has extensive experienCE! wj th the Company of Young Canadians and with the Southern Labrador Development Association. He has worked with financial institutions, including Avco and l:he Bank of MontrE~al. In 1984, when the Bank of Montreal closed its branch on the Coast of L325 June 5, 1989 Vol XLI Labrador, it IJJas Mr. P1ke IJJho really carne to the rescue of thE:~ people on that coast and established a credit un:ion :ln L'Anse-au-Loup to provide needed banking services.

Most recently he has bE!en occupied establishing a credit uni.on in Happy Val]E!Y Goose Bay. The government have also decided to introduce legislation which will amend The Newfoundland and Labrador Development Corporat::ion Act by requiring the PrE!Sident of that corporation to report dire!ctly to the Economic Recovery Commission.

This will serve::~ the dual purpose of avoiding duplication by the commission of certain staff and programs already :in placE! at NLDC and at the same time provide the new commission with an immediate source of information and staff assistance, so that it can get on with its job immediately without having to take the time tq set up the facil:it tes necessary to achieve it. This change will of course eliminate the necessity fur· a separate Board of Directors for the Newfoundland and Labrador Development Corporation .

It is r::~rnphasized that: the change has nothing LIJhatsoever to do w:i.t.h thE! performance of the extsting Bo ar·d and the Government expresses gratitude to the mE!mbr:!rS of that Board for the ir E:~xcel1E!nt WOI"k in the past . fhe change hoWE •Ver is necessary j n order to enablE! the Government to carry out its economic recovery plan. Mr. Speakt~r, I r'E!Qr(!t that th~ :!rE! was one member o~ the board that I have bE!en unable to track down in the J.ast couple of days; hE• :is sorne1JJhere on a boat and hE.~ is thE! only one who did not know that this was happening . I express No. 7 R 3 2 ~)

regrE!tS to him, but I am sure he will understand. The Government is confident that its Economic Recov.:~ry Plan can and will work. It cannot however achieve complEd:e success overnight or e v en i n a y ear or two . To begin with, the commissioners tAr.i.ll need some time to terminate thEdr present commitments so it will take a few weeks to get up and running. It may well be that the Commission may bE! in place fcir. six to eight years before its Chairman will be able to report that its job is complete and the unempoyment rate in this province is less than the national average.

For, stated in its simplest terms, the fundamental objective of the Economic Recovery Commission is to bring the annual average unemployment rate of Newfoundland and Labrador down below the national level. We will be asking the Government of Canada to join with the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador in this great endeavor. Solving the employment problems of this Province is not the responsibility alone of the Government of the Province. An unemployment rate, in any province, that is twice the national rate, is a national disgrace.

The national government must shoulder its share of the responsibility and we believe must participate with the Government of this Province in the effort to terminate the national disgrace in the shortest time possible. We will be putting forward definite proposals for their participation in the near future. While governments have the primary responsibility we must take the lead in this matter. We should 1..326 June S, 1989 Vol XLI all recognize that government effort alone will not accomplish our goal.

This is a challenge that calls for the participation and support of a11 of us government, Opposi U.on, the public service, business, 1abour, churchE!S, municipal. governments, educators, service clubs and people in all wa1ks of 1ife in this Province. In particular it wi11 require the understanding and effort of all of the lAJorkers of this Province, both the employed and the unemployed. Mr. Speaker, the Economic RE!Covery Commission wjlJ. pr·ovide the acU.VE! leaders hip, but the real Econornic Recovery Tearn wj 11 bE! alJ. of thE! people of Newfoundland and Labrador. Thank you, Mr. Speaker . SOME HON.

MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of t:he Opposition . MR ·. RIDEOUT: Th-ank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Certainly, while unemployment is such a problem in this Province as it is today and as it has bE!E!n over thE! 1ast several. YE!ar·s, such a difficult problem to d~"al tAJith, one doE!S not haVE! thE! luxury, :i.n my view, of being cynical about any approach that this goVE!rntriE!nl or any government takes to try to so1ve the unemployment in NE!Wfoundland and Labrador.

It is onE:1 that a] 1 of us are concernE!d about and one that a11 of us, from time to time, in one fie1d or another, haVE! attempt:r:•d to gr·apple wj th. So, in that context, and u..Jith that pr·eamble, Mr. ~3pE!ak<:.~r, obviously we hope that this No. '7 R326

Economic Recovery Team that the Premier has announced today will be useful and wi 11 be beneficial and will go along way, we hope, toward improving the unemployment picture in this Province. Now, Mr. Speaker, I am not sure that anybody in Newfoundland and Labarador, when this particular appro·ach was articuJ.at.ed by the Premier during the election campaign, envisioned that there would be another lar-ge-scale, separate, in many respects, bureaucracy created. I do not think it was ever spelled out by the Premier and his Party at the time that the vision was to create a separate, full time commission.

I beli .eVE! peopJ.e expected t.hat thE!re would bt::1 a volunteer group who would advise the government and others as to what economic opportunities werE! available in Newfoundland and Labrador and try to attract investment and create employment and so on. But what we have here today, and this is not being critical or negative - maybe it is the right approacl1. Time wi11 te!lJ.. We will see - what we have here today is a separate commission set up similar to and along the working Jines of the Worke rs' Compensation Commission, that will report again to the Premier.

It seems that more and mor·e E!VE!ry day there is more and more reporting taking place in t:his Province, and in the Government of this Province, to t:he Pr·errr.ier. Not to the Minister of Development or any other minister, but to the Premier. The model being used here, the Workers' Compensation Commission model, t:he Commission reports l":o a minis te!r and the!n through thE! rn:inister re!ports to the House of Assembly .

I wouJ.d assume that u 2'7 June 5, 1989 Vol XLI under this new Commission, this Commission will find its way in its workings and its dealings and its results to the House of Assembly through the Premier annually, because we would obviously want to know what this Commission is up t:o fr·om time to timE!, and certainly WE! wouJ.d want to know what t:he Commission is up to on an annual basis: What its activity is, what its results are, what it i.s achiE!Ving, and how it is going about its work. All of these things, Mr. Speaker, will have to come before l:hE!

House, I hope, in due course and be open to scrutiny and questions by us, and by the public at large. The Premier makes no mention at all in this stahnnr::~nt Mr. Sp(;!aker, what he anticipates the cost of this Commission to be. There is no i.ndi.cation what thE! salary requirements are for Dr. House and the permanent commissioners. We certainly would likE! to know what kind of budget this Commiss:i.on has been allocatE!d. We tJJou1d lil<e l:o know re!latively soon what thE• budgetary requirements For this Commission ar'E!, and what arE! thE! terms of emp1oyment of the commissioners themselves. Is it contractual?

Is it annual salary, or is it a contractual arrangement, or what? These are thi.ngs that thE! House deserVE!S to know and the people of Newfoundland and Labrador deserve to know. There are a lot of other things in this statement, Mr. SpeakE!r, that we will have questions on over the next severaJ days. For E!Xample, what is the t"o1e of the Nei.Aifoundland and Labrador Econorn:i c Council notJJ? There appea.rs to be some hint in this particular statetnE!nt that the Econouli .c Council will become redundant, No. 7 R327

'"'- that it is no longE!r necessary to have an advisory group to government on the broad global aspect of economic development opportunities in Newfoundland and Labrador. The Board of Directors of the Newfoundland and Labrador Development Corporation have been deemed to be no longer necessary, and the President of NLDC now reports directly to this Cornmis sian which, by the way, it should be pointed out, the Premier says in his statment tJJill ta'ke no direction from government.

Again it is another example where either the burE!aucracy in the Department of Transportation, or the bureaucracy in this particular commission now is going to operate independently of government and take no direction from anybody but be responsiblE! to everybody. That appears to be the kind of mentality that is inherent in this particular statement. What is going to be the interplay between i:his Commission . and Developmt=:~nt Associations? What is going to be the interplay between this Commission and Community Futures CommittEles?

Are we now going to have four or five or six or seven or ten different directions in this Province, or is this group meant to co-ordinate and try to ensure that everybody is go.i.ng in the right direction? There are a lot of questions, Mr. Speaker, that need to be answered. However, having pointed out those, we will watch this carefully as the Commission is being set up over the next several weE!ks and WE! will no doubt have:~ a lot more questions on it. Having sa.i.d that., we have to welcome on this side of the House, Mr. Speaker, any initiative that might create a single job in Newfoundland and Labrador.

L328 June 5, 1989 Vol XLI Because at least here today we have four or five new ones crE!ated, but that really does not compensate for the purge that took place ,in the public service of this Province dur :ing the first hours of this government's mandate . SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: Before getting into the Ora] Question period we would like to welcome anothE!r dE!legatjon to the Galleries today. This is a deJ.egation from the town council of Joe Bat:t 1 s Ar·m in the pE1rsons of Mr. Harry Decker, Mr. Scott. Hancock, Patricia Anthony, the town cJ.erk, and Cecil Godwin the fire ch'iE!f. SOME HON.

MEMBERS: Hear, hear! Oral Questions MR. SPEAKER: The han. the member for Menihek . SOME HON . MEMBERS: Hear, ht~ar! MR. A. SNOW: Mr·. Speaker, I direct my qUE!stj on to t:he Minister of Education (Dr. P. Warren) . In recent medj a releases and cornrnE!ni:s i:o l:he moclia hE! stated, after the cancellation of the first year university program in Menihek, that he and his department would be willing to assist students from Menihek get :into un:iversit: :i.t~s :i.n other· an:1as.

I wonder if he could tell th is House how he and his department arE! go:i.ng to att.empt to gE!t students from Menihek registered in universitiE•s in othE!r ar'E!as, or· indeed in this Province? There No. 7 R328

are 180 of them, the highest per capita registration in this Province, who are going to be deprived of a post-secondary educat:ion at a first year university level. The highest per capita registration in this Province, and they are going to bE! deprived of having this first year university program in their home town, which incidentally, Mr. Speaker, was the first area outside the City of St. ~ohn 1 s where you could get a first-year university education - the first in this Province. Would the minister answer the question, please? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education . DR.

WARREN: Mr. Speaker, before I answer that question, I would like to say that I had a meeting this morning tJJith the delegation from Labrador West, a very frank and lively discusston, I might add, and this i s s u e tAla s o n e of the i s s u E! s that we discussed at some length. We have made some contacts, I want: to inform the hon. member, with Memorial University and with other universities across the country. Even though on papE!r the deadline has passed, in many cases there are opportunities for students to register at these universities.

CE!rtainly it is our intE!ntion to do everything possible, and I promised this, particularly to the student who tJ.Jas part of thE! delegation, that we would write on behalf of these students, and we would rnake sure \:hat residE!nce requiremE!nts, where possible, were provided. We w:ill do everything possible to see that students who L329 June 5, 1989 Vol XLI were disadvantaged as a result of this postponement - not a cancellation - will be tak.::!n care of. MR. A. SNOW: A supplementary Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: question, Mr. The hon. the member for Menihek. MR. A.

SNOW: Because of the government 1 s decision to cancel this program, and the Premier 1 s postponement of this program, and the Premier's own admission that hE! made a mistake in making the commitment to implement this program in Menihek, will the minister instruct thE! officials in h:is department to implement a financial package to compensatE! the students, and the familiE!S of . thE!Se students, who arE• going to incur a financial burden of $8,000 to $10,000 a year bE• cause of - the cancellation of \:his program?

Can he tell us that hE! w:iJ.J instruct his officials to implement this package for the benefit of the residents of Menihek? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hE1ar! MR. SPEAKER: ThE:1 han. the Minister of Education . DR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, I wonder cancelled the program? program was terminated in five years ago. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hE!ar! DR. WARREN: tJJho T hts 198 4' Delegation after delegation led by the person who is in the galll~ry today, Mr. Condon, camE! t.o the No. 7 R329

government and as ked to have that reinstated. I indicated, Mr. Speaker, that we will do everything possible to help students who are seriously disadvantaged as a rE!SUl t of this decision, and that includes looking at financial help. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. A. SNOW: A final supplementary, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the member for Menihek. MR. A. SNOW: Mr. Speaker, after the meei:ing the minister just mentioned with the said cornrni ttE!e, led by Mr.

Condon from Menihek, the Post-Secondary Education Commit tee of Labrador West, will the minister now come clean and admit to this House of Assembly and to the people of this Province that the rE!al reason for the cancellation of this program was . not what he has b1:!en saying in the media, not what they have bE!en saying through different media reJ.easE!S, but that the real re!ason tAJas budgetary and political, a budgetary and a politicaJ. reason to punish the people of Menihek and to save this government $1 million that they can spend in their own districts? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.

SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Education . DR. WARREN: I deny that, Mr. Speaker. I might Speake!r. add one When other thing, I entered Mr. t. hE! L330 June 5, 1989 Vol XU Department of Education I assumed, as a result of i:he han. LE!ader of the Opposi U.on 1 s announcement that t:hey were going ahead, \:hat some money was availabJ.e and sorne planning had been done.

I found in May that nothing had been done, no money had been providi:!d in t:he preliminary estimates, and no decisions had been made with respect to providing the service that the people of Lab1nador -West deserved, and which we will provide in the Fall of 1990, Mr. Speaker. We wi 11 provide that service in the Fall of 1990. §_9ME HON. M~MBERS: Hear, hE!ar! MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKE!~: The:~ han. tne LE•ader of the Opposition. MR. RIDEOUT: My question is on the same subject but it is to the hon. Uw PremiE!r.

I should r·erni.nd thE• Premier and his Minister of Education that, sure, to attE!rnpt to score political points l:hey can go back to 1984, they can go back to where they wish, but the people of Menihek wiJJ . be intE!r·estE!d i.n recent history, and .in rE!CE!nt history the currE!nt PrerniE!r, then Leader of the Opposition, coiTIITlittE!d post-SE!COndary education to Labrador West starting SeptE!mber, 1989. That is LhE! bottom line, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. RIDEOUT : Now, Mr. Speaker, since the Premier likes to giuE• the that all of his impression commitments and hJs public No. '7 1n3o

positions are well thought out, that he has thought it all through before he opens his mouth and says that they are going to do something, will the Premier tell this House and the people of Labrador West why it was that he could announce during the election campaign that they wouJd begin post-secondary education in Labrador West in 1989 and now have the audacity to apologize for not carrying through on that commitment? MR. SIMMS: A good -question . PREMIER WELLS : Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier . PREMIER WELLS: It is very simple and straightforward, Mr. Speaker, and I will explain it simply.

To begin with, as I stand in this House at the moment, I cannot say specifically that I remember precisely what I said. But I am prepared - SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! PREMIER WELLS : If everybody would just listen for a minute! I am prepared to accept whatever those gentleman say I said . I do not question it. But it was not what the Leader of l:he Opposition just said. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! PREMIER WELLS: Here is what it was, and, as Mr. Condon told me this morning, Mr.

Speaker, it was simply that we would restore the program l:hat had L3 31 June 5, 1989 Vol XL.I bE!en cancelled by the prE!Vious government three yE!ars before I and we would restorE! thE! p1nogram immediately. Not..v that t,o~.Jas the undertaking. We would rE!Store the program immediately. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Do it. PREMIER WELLS: We would restore thi program immediately. September 1989 was not mentioned. Anybody listE!ning to that could reasonably expect that it would go into place this coming Fa.ll. I do not doubt that. That is a reasonable expectation . MR. MATTHEWS: You said September 1989 .

PREMIER WELLS: And that 'w'a s the pre c is E! :in t E! n t. :Lon of the government until the officials of the Department of Education indicated clearly that it would b::• a wr·ong moVE! in educat:ional tE!rrns to try and for'CE! that this Fall . Now that disappointed me, I do not mind telling I: he House I Mr. Speakt::~r. I do not mind telling the House that this disappointed me because it should never have been cancelled in \:he first place . WE! arE• corrnni tted to doing it and doing it correctly. Now are those officials right? Are they absolutely right?

I do not know with absolute certainty, but J accept the advice giVE!Il by fhcc!ln, and we agree that it will be restored immediately th~t it is possible to do it . If that is this Fall, it will be done. If it is not until September 1990, then that is the time when it wi11 be done. SOME HON. MEMBERS: HE!ar, hE!ar! No. 7 R331

h : MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr . Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it is so intE!resU.ng to watch the hon. the Premier skate and try to squirm now publicly out of a commitment,· that if he watched televisjon on Friday night he would see clearly that he said, coming out. of his own mouth, it would be reinstituted in September 1989. That is exactly what the han. gentleman said. MR. SIMMS: That is exactly what. you said . MR. RIDEOUT: Now, Mr. Speaker, let me ask the han. PremiE!r this.

If the Premier is pr·epare!d to lead, as he wants the people of this Province to believe that he is prepared to lead, why will not the Premier instruct the officials in the Department of Education that it t.1.1 as a c o mm i t mE! n t of h :i. s party to reinstitutE! post-secondary education ih Labrador West in 1989, and that they should therefore proceed to do what the government said it would do? MR. SIMMS: Right on! PREMIER WELLS: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER : ThE! hon. the PrE!rn-.ier. PREMIER WELLS: Fairly that i.s it. I simply, Mr. Speaker.

If what I said, I do not deny do not remember, but if L332 June 5, 1989 Vol XLI that is what was said I accept it.. I do not question it. But the answer to the specific question is straightforward. Unlike my predecessor I am not prepared to do things wrong to save political face. If it was an error, I !Adll say it 1..11as an error and we will ·act accordingly. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Leader of . thE! Opposition. MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, so why does not the Premier then, therE!fore, M1 ~ .

Speak~£~r. pract: .. i..ce t.AJhat he pr-eaches, if it was wrong, if he made a t.AJrong decision sdy it lJo.las wrong, not try to skate and squirm and ge!t out of it, and the people of Menihek suffer in the meantime. MR. SIMMS: Exactly. MR. RIDEOUT: Now let me ask the Prerrdr:~r this, Mr. Speaker. Is not the real tr·ut.h of thE! rnat .ter that th(! PremiE!r had to save $1 rni11ion .i..n a budget and he choose to save :i.t. on the backs of the people of Labrador West? That is tho real question. SOME HON. MEMBERS: HE!ar, hear! PREMIER WELLS: Mr. Speal<r:~r. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the PrEHn:ier .

PREMIER WELLS: No. 7 R332

There were two questions . First, if it was wrong to do it why does he not say it? I thought that was what I said on Friday in this House. I thought that I said it wo u 1 d h au e been a mistake to do it, and I am sorry, I apologize to the people::~ of Labrador West for having said that because it appears that it was in error. I thought that that was acknowledging that it was incorrect and I did so. If ·I did not make it clear, then I make it clear now. The second part of the question was, 11 Was it not done to save a million dollars? 11 No, no, no! Is that clear? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.

SPEAKER: The han. the Leader of Opposition. MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, will the Premier ·and the MinistE!r of Education, Why is it that everybody in Labrador West involved in education, involved in the facilities, involved in the programming, involved in the advertising, why is it that everybody except the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador says that this program can go ahead this year? Why is the government the only people who say it cannot go ahead? SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER : The han. the Premier . PREMIER WELLS: ThE!

MinistE!r of Education talking to a group involt;ed education in Labrador West v.1as with and l:hc::~y agrN!d vJith the officials in the Department of Education. 1_3 3 3 June S, 1989 Vol XLI SOME HON. MEMBERS: 11 Wrong' wr·ong. 11 ..... - MR. WINDSOR : Misleading the House. PREMIER WELLS: I am not mi.sJ.eading the HousE!. On Thursday of last t.~.wek I was speaking with thE! Minister of Education.

I read a news release that they released in Labrador· City at the same time expressing their regret that it was not going ahead, but expressing thC::!.ir full understanding 1.1lith the rE!asons why it was not going ahead. SOME HON. MEMBERS: What were the reasons? PREMIER WELLS: Maybe I have it here, [f I do not have it . I wi11 get it and tab] e it, Mr. Speaker. Here it is. I will read it so as there wj.JJ not be any doubt w:it:h precis E'!ly what: they said. I do not need to read it all.

They expr·ess t:h{'!ir rE!gret that ·it cannot be donE!, then thE!Y go on to say, 11 The bodrd acknowledges the difficulty at this late dai:E! .in delivt~r·tng the kind of quality programming that the citizens of Labrador WE!St deserve. 11 They acknowledge ti"w situation, !:he r,:JoverrmH:•n\: 11li. '1de that decision solely on that basis, and not for any budgE!talny reason, no matter what the hon. gentlE:~man would like \:hE! situat ·Jon to be, no matter what he thinks he would like it to bE!, or E•t;en the Opposition House LeadE!In; the reality is something else . SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear. hE!ar! MR.

SPEAKER : Order, please! There is quite a bit of noise No. '7 R333

today, whtch I do not intend to tolerate. I will recognize members when the level of noise subsides, and if han. members want to lose time in the Question Period for that then that is the hon. members' problem. So the Chair is only going to rE!COgnize people when I assume that there is a level of quiet. The hon. Pearl. MR. WINDSOR: l:he membE!r for Mount Mr. Speaker, on Friday I tried to gE!t some infor.mation from the Mintster of Finance, Dr. Kitchen, and I quote from Hansard, where he says, " I cannot u_nderst.r.'l.nd the question.

If the person would speak English I would understand what he is trying to say." So I should apologize to the Minister of Finance; I do not knotAJ why I would expect the Minister of Finance in this Province to understand such terms as 'crE!d-.i.t r·ating agenciE!S, ' 'fiscal managers, ' 'credits, ' 'bonds, ' 'sales tax' and things of that nature. So I do apologize and I have some

definitions from the dictionary which I will SE!nd oVE!r to him, Mr. Speaker, and he can peruse thE!ITI at his leisure.

Perhaps now I w:Lll try to ask him the s ~me question in baby talk. and the questton was simply has the statements that the Premier made in the past number of months putting doubt in people's minds as to whE!thE!r or not Uds goVE!rnment. will honour loan guarantees issued by a previous government, as to whether commmitmenl:s of that nature made by a legitimate government of t:.his Province would be honourE!d, has that had an impact on the credit rating agencies jn NeiAJ York City, those people who set a level on our credit and give us a bond rat:ing, L334 June S, 1989 Vol XLI and has that had any impact on our ability l:o raise funds?" The Minister said we just raised funds in the market at the most favourable rate in a number of years, but !:hat is bE!

CaUSE! of the performance of the previous ad minis tr·a t:io n and the crE!dibi li ty that we built up, Mr. SpE!aker, and has nothing to do with the ability of this governmE!nt. But has its a b i l i t y to r· a i s e f u n d s ·i n t: he market been weakened to thE! point where there is not tnOnE!Y available now to honour the commitments made by the Premier in Western Labrador because of his statements about honouring loan guarantees? DR. KITCHEN : Mr . Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of FinanCE! . DR. KITCHEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am still not too sure what it is he is asking.

I find it very djfficult . Certajnly s:incE• our tlE!W PrE!IrtiE!r assu:nE!d offiu~ everyone in the financial community is very happy that we have thjs Premjer - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! DR. KITCHEN : - rather than the lot opposite . Mf~. WINDSOR: Mr . Speaker . MR . SPEAKeR : The hon . the member for Mount Pearl. MR. WINDSOI~: Mr. Speaker, it j_s obvious now why the Minister of Finance was not allowed to even speak in The No. 7 1n34

Interim Supply Bill that was put through the House in his own name, because he is not capable of addressing a financial matter. Will he now te ll us has the Premier's statement that he was going to reduce the sales tax immediately had any impact on our ability to raise funds in the market and on our credit rating by this agency? DR. KITCHEN: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Finance . DR. KITCHEN: No. MR. WINDSOR : Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the member for Mount Pearl. MR. WINDSOR: .Mr. Sp.eaker I it. is almost impossible to get any information from thE!

Minister of Finance, so, therefore, let me ask a question of the Minister of Development (Mr. Furey) . Has the PremiE!r' s statement in relation to loan guarantees in any way impeded his ability to develop thj s Province, or has that ability, in fact, and that mandate been takE!n away from him today by the Prc::~rnier in announcing hJ.s economy recov~!ry team? And I note that the Premier in his grE!at political stat.emE!nt during the election of reducing his CabinE!t has done so. He eliminated Five ministers and hundreds of staff, but just appointed five more people much more highly paJd than the ministE!I~s.

And what notAl tA.rill the Minister of Development do? The mandate of the Minister of L335 June 5, 1989 Vol XLI Development has away from hirn. MR. FUREY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Development. MR. FUREY: just bN!n taken Minister of Mr. Speaker, the PrE:~miE!r has put. together an economic recovery team. He has dr'awn from th0! private sector, from people who are compete .nt across this ProvinCE! to deliver a very irnporl:ant job.

The job of this economic rE!C:OVE!ry team lJJill be to encoura.gE! t'l.nd to stimulatE!. we have inhE!ri l:ed on economy that :i.s thE! of an E!Cono1rric It was in desperate Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this side an E!quivalE!nt wasteland. shape, Mr. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. FUREY: We hear laughter on the other side, but on this side we have seen thE! books, Mr. SpE!akE!r, and it :is not a laughing matter. It rE!quires the E!XpE!rts that we have drawn upon, such as Dr. House and Mr. 0' Brien and others who arE! in l:he gallr:~ry, to cure this VE!ry, very serious probJ.ern, Mr'. Speaker.

It is a very serious probJ.em. And I concur with the Minisl:er of Finance that we have not seen the J.ikes of the confidence in the financial community since thE! rE!turn to pot.uE!r -- after the past SE!Venteen y E:~ars - of this go v E! r-nme nt under our new Premier. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hE!ar! No. 7 R33 ~;

MR . WINDSOR: One final supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han . the member for Mount Pearl, on a final supplementary . MR. WINDSOR: · Mr. Speaker, the han. gentleman says that he has seen the books. Yes, I have seen the books as well. I saw $173 million deficit budgeted two years ago and 1 saw $4-1 million deficit budgE! ted last year, and I suspect that the actual amount that the Minister of Finance would bring into this House tomorrow will be a surplus. That is the kind of books that IJJe have left to this government. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR .

WINDSOR: Maybe the Minister of Finance will tell us, therefor·e, are there going to be sales tax reductions as promised by the Premier? And is hE!, in fact, going to bring in a balanced budget tomorrow? DR. KITCHEN : Wait until tomorrow. MR. WINDSOR: He is not allowed to answer that question? MR. FURE"Y : Mr . Speaker, · I think the han . 1nird.ster t.>Jas directing his question to me again . MR. WINDSOR: To the Minister of Finance . MR. FUREY: ~h. to the Minister of Finance . MR. WINDSOR: If he is not al1owed to speak ,, L336 June 5, 1989 Vol XU you can. We know he is not allowed to answer questions .

So nobody is going to answer it. MR. SPEAKER: Further questions? MR. WINSOR: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon . the member for Fogo . MR. WINSOR: The question is to lhe minister responsible for Transportation. It has now been proven that the Beaumont Hamel is unsuitabJ.e fo1" Winter crossing in Hamilton Sound. Will the ministE!r' now tel 1 this House and the peoph~ of Foqo Island what plans this govel"nnH:~nt. has For improving the ferry service to Fogo Island? MR. GILBEin : Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation . MR. GILBERT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

As to the quesU on from the hon. the rnE!mber For FCHJO, hE! might think that the Beaumont Hamel has now been proven not to be satisfactory in Winter, but my officials have not really confirmed that . They are stjl l doinr:3 an investigation and I w-·[11 let him know in due course. MR. SPEAKER : The han. the member for Fogo. MR . WINSOR: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. S:ince for the present ferry

schedule Change Islands and Fogo No . 7 ln36

Islands is inadequate, would the minister now, immediately, reinstate the Change Island fE!rry serv-:icE! and begin the Summer

schedule for Fogo Island? MR. SPEAKER : The han. the Minister of. Works, Services· and Transportation. MR. GILBERT: Mr. Speaker, if the previous government had not cancelled that service it would be in ssrvice right now, that service would have never bee!n cancelle!d. In the meantime, it is under consideration and as soon as vessels are available it will be put into service. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER : The han. the member for Fogo. MR. WINSOR: A final supplementary.

Since severe quota restrictions are placed on the fishermen of Fogo Island becausE! of the failure of the transportation system to move its graded and ungraded caplin, can thE! minist.E!r telJ. us what plans his department has in palce to aJ.leviate the problems during t:his caplin season for the fishermen of Fogo Island? MR. SPEAKER : The Minister of Works, Services and Transportation . MR. GILBER·r: Mr. Speaker, officials of my department have been in cantact with the people from the Fogo Island Co-op and are working out an arrangement to handJ.e the caplin glut. 1_3 3 '7 June 5, 1.989 Vol XLI SOME HON.

MEMBERS : Hear, hE!ar! MR. SPEAKER: The han. the member for Burin Placentia West. MR. TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the same minister. After listening to what he is saying and the way he has been dancing around the ferry situation for Fogo Island and the Beaumont Hamel, and what his officials tell him, well, we all had officials jn that department who told us something different, according to the minister there. Mr. SpeakE!r, lE!t me ask thE· m i n i s t e r , w he n he t a 1 k s abo u t 1: he Fogo IsJ.and fE!rry, what about ·thE:! second ferry for Bell Island? Is he still considering that as well?

He SE'E!ITIS to be consider·ing eVE!rything. MB. SPEAKER: The Minister of Works, Services and Transportation. MR. GILBERT : Mr. Speaker, certa:inly I a111 sti]J considering the second fe rry for Bell Island, as I told the rnE•mber last week, and it was in the press the IJ.JE'E!k bE!for·e that. I think you should 9E!t SOITIE!OnE~ E!}Sl:. t:O wr.i l:.e your quE:~sttons. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear , h E:~ ar! MR. SPEAKER: The member for Bur :i.n West. MR. TOBIN : Pla centia Mr.

SpE!akE!r, if l:hE! rn:in"isl:.er· is considering, then why did he sa.y on June 1, .in ansli.Jetn to a quest. .ion fr·om my coJ.J.eague for Har·bour Main No . '7 R33'7

(Mr. Doyle), that 1 we commitment to them and going to be a second made a there is ferry for that a Is there fE!rry for he sU.ll the minister Bell Island 1 ? Is commitment, Mr. SpE!ak er? going to be a second Bell Island or is considering? What is saying? MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation. MR. GILBERT: Mr . Speaker, I already answered the question and it u.lill be taken care of in due course. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. TOBIN : Now, Mr. Speaker, said - MR. SPEAKER : the minister has Just a moment . I have not recognized the hon. me1nber yet, but I am about to.

The han. the member for Burin Placentia West. MR. TOBIN: Thank you very much, Your Honour. The ministE!r has, said on June 1 that there is going to be a second ferry for Bell IsJ.and on JunE• 1 . He has just now reconfil"lnE!d what he has been saying, and that is that government is considering a second fE!rry for Bell IsJ.and. My question now is has government already madE! a decision to cane e 1 \:he second fE!rry for· Bell Island, and has an MC bE!en issued to that effect? Yes or No. MR. SPEAKER : ihe han. the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation . L338 June 5, 1989 Vol XLI MR. GILBERT: Mr.

Speake:~r, no. SOME HON. MEMBERS : a·"il":·- o h r MR. SPEAKER: No more questions? MR. HEARN : Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon . the member for St . Mary 1 s -The Capes. MR. HEARN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I tJJas so arnazed at the the last question that froze in my se at, as member who answered the did. ansWE!r to I sort of t·:he hon. question My qUE!stion is to thE! M:i nistE!r of Fisheries. About \:his time every year fishermen around the Coast, particularly in places like St . John 1 s East and St.

Mary 1 s Bay, have a grave concern about the upcoming season when the codfish glut - if we ca n call it that; I suppose we should say thE!Se late yea rs the fair amount of codfish you might get usually co inc ides with the star\: of the ca plin fishery, and many of the fishplanl:s \:hat buy cod orcLi.nari.1y have their freezers fj]}ed with caplin and we E!nd up wit:h what tJJe sometimes call the glut in cod, which is just an inabiLHy of \::he plants to handle the caplin and t h e c o d .

I a s k l: h e rn i n i s l: E! r h a s he put in p]ace th:is yE•ar SOlliE! plans that will be there to implernE!nt . if this sjt.uat:ion occUI"S \:his year, so \:he fishel "rnen tAd tl not end up having to throw away their cod? MR. SPEAKER : No . 7 R338

The hon. the Minister of Fisheries . MR. W. CARTER: Mr. Speaker, yes, there is a plan in place. The union is working on that. We have had discussions with certain parts of the private sector who have offered to help in that regard. I am sat .isfied that. if and when a glut occurs, and I hope it does, then we wilJ. be abJ.e to handle it, within reason, of course, by virtue of t.he union's intiatives and the ones that we have taken. MR. HEARN: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for St. Mary's -The Capes. MR. HEARN: f-1r. Speaker, minister for question.

I the !:hank l:he answer to hon. the What happens, quite often every year, as he knows, is that we plan, but thE!n we are aJ.1JJays looking for boats when the glut occurs. I ask the rniniste•r, in light of requests from fishermen from St. Mary's BclY to haVE! made available Polar Star, and it has be!en said by the owners there is an agreement that they will make it available for over-the ··-side salc:.'!s, and since the fi s her·men of St.. Mary's Bay were first to reqUE!St the boat I think it should be made available there, has the minister made a1nrangements IJJi th Mr.

Woodman and the Ne1.1rfound Resources to make Polar Star available for over-the--side salos, particularly in the St. Mary's Bay area, where 1.ve usually are affected more than anywhere eJ.se in the Province? MR. SPEAKER : L3 39 June 5, 1989 Vol XLI The hon. the Minister of Fisheries . MR. W. CARTER: Mr. Speaker, yes, the officials of my department have been talking to Mr. Woodman concerning Polar Star and that rna t i:E!r is now under consideration by my officials. MR. SPEAKER : The time for Question Period has now elapsed.

Before carrying on to the noxt i t.em, I IJJould just lj ke to rnakE! a couple of more welcomes to the Galleries and to the House of Assembly on behalf of hon. rnembE!rs. First of all, I would like to welcome Cornmi ttee Members from the Menihek-Labrador West Post-Secondary Educat.ion Cornrnitt.oe in thE! persons of Mr. Condon, Mr. Michelin, Mr. Mar tin, Mr. Par·sons, Mr. ColJ.ins, Mr. Bennett and Mr . Kelly? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, h10:1ar! MR.

SPEAKER: Also, I would like to welcome to l:he Galler:iE!S a vetE!ran municipal politician who has sc:>r'VE!d his community for over a quarter of a century, and I refer to thE! DE:1puty Mayor of Crow Head, Mr . Walter EJliott. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hE!ar! Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees MR . SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation . MR. GILBERT : No . 7 1n39

Mr. Speaker, at this time I would like to table in the House The Report of Public Tender Act Exceptions from July of last year to April of this year. And at this I time I table in the report the Exceptions to the Public Tender·ing ·Act For l:he past ten months this House was closed. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Fisheries. MR. W. CARTER: Mr . Speaker, as is required undE!r The Fisheries Loan Board Act, I hereby table The Fisheries Loan Board Annual Report for 1987-88. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Health. MR. DECKER: Mr. Speaker, in accordance with

Section 37 of The Newfoundland Medical Car·e Insurance Act, I 11-dsh to table The Report of the Commission for the Year· ended March 31, 1988. My predecessor, Dr. ColJ.ins, would have done that, r-Jir. Speaker, but, as Your Honor knows, this House has not been opE!n for ten months so I have to do it in his place. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. l:he Minister of Labour. MS COWAN: I would like to present as required by legislation, Mr. Speaker,A Team Approach. The Annual Report 1988 of the Workers• Compensation Commission of Newfoundland and Labrador. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hea1n! MR.

SPEAKER : BeforE! gE!tting into OrdE!rS of thE! Day, I wonder if I;..Je could just have a brief note to the House of 1_34-0 June S, 1989 Vo 1 XLI precisely what we are doing at this point so everybody understands, particularly The Chair. I l!.Jant to know preciSE!ly how long the debate is going to take, how many speakers will be speaking, this kind of thing. MR. SIMMS : Mr . Speaker, I thought IJ.JE! made it : clear earlier when the House opened. We did discuss and explain how it was going to be one from each side, five mJnutes each.

We have a printed resolution, a copy of which we will be sending up to Your Honour. MR. SPEAKER: Fine! The han . the member· for St. John• s East. SOME HON . MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MS DUFF: Th-ank--you, Mr. Speaker . I would also like to thank the han. mmnber for GandE!r, the Government HouSE! LeadE!r, l~or· his co -operation in facilitating the presentation of this resolution. It. uJas short not.:iCE!, but thE• nature of Lhe event which this resoJ.ution rE!la tes to ts such that I fN!l it :is important: to bring tl: to the House today.

I w~il.l simply rE!ad the rE!soJ.ut:ion and then I will speak very briefly on the resolution in expJ.anation.

WHEREAS in recE:'nt year·s the People's Repub lic of Ch ina has opE!ned tts society and E!Conomy t:o great:er participat.i.on in l:hE~ WOl' 'ld community; and WHEI~EAS the has been a No. 7 Gover'nlnE! rd: of leader in th E! Canadc-~ Wes ter ·n 1\34-0

World in foster·ing mutual understanding with l:he People's Republic of China through diplomatic contact, t:r·ade missions, and cultural exchanges; and

WHEREAS the Government of Canada is held in high regard by the People's Republic of China; and

WHEREAS Chinese students have participated in peaceful demonstrations in an effort to obtain more dEnnocratic rights and freedoms in their country; and

WHEREAS these peaceful demonstrations are being put down by military force against unar·med students and civilians resulting in untold death and injury; THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that this han. House ask the federal government to convey to the Government of the People's Republic of China the shock and outrage felt by the people of this Province at this most brutal and unwarranted action; and BE IT' THEREFORE FURTHER RESOLVED that this han. House ask the federal government to express this Nation's SE!nsc~ of outr·age at this blatant violation of basic human rights and freedoms through appropriately strong political and economic sanctions. Mr.

Speaker, a brief explanation for this resolution: Although I th'ink most mernbE!rS in this House are well aware of thE! events that have been taking place at Tienanman Square in Beijing over the last five weeks, perhaps t.l.Je do not all realize that we do have in our midst in the City of St. John's over sjxty students from the Republic of China, who are China scholars, who are here on L3 4-1 June S, 1989 Vol XLI one of the mi'li1Y culturaJ. exchange programs and studE!nt E!XChangE! programs which are part of thE! open--door pol.l.cy bE!tWE!E!n Canctda and the Republic of China.

You can imagine the anxiety and horror and concern of these students who, like thE! re!st of us all across Newfoundland and Labrador, have been watching w:.i. t h amazement over the past five weeks as these events unfolded.

I think we have all been impressed greatly by the restraint of thE! students and by the reasonablenE!SS of the demands of those students v.Jho ar'E! asking only for an increase in thEdr dE!ITiocratic rights, and t.hE!Y mean the'ir basic civil rights that we take for granted, an incrE•aSE! in the freedom of the pi"C:!SS, IAJh i.ch we also take for grant.E!d, and an end to corruption in government . These struck us as extremely reasonable.

Thr:!n on June 3, this weekc~nd, as WE! looked at our television sets, tJJE! saw arrnorE!d cars, a1~1nr:•d lAri l:h heavy machine guns, come into the Ttenanman Square and fire randomly into those unarmed students. Those students were totally unarmed . The only thing that they had tAJi.th them l:o barriutdE! themselves against these armored tanks wore household implE!rnc~n l:s, mattresses, pots and pans and their own bodoies.

WE! watchE!d as tanks rolled over and killed these unanned students and thE!n began t.o fir·e randomJ.y agc:dnst thE'! civi1ian population, including young children who were only observing From thE!.ir balconies. Tl: . .is VE!ry hard to overstate the horror of something like that happening in such an unwarranted manner . ThE!Se studE:~nts have not;.J asked u~;. the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, who l:i .ve :i.n peaCE!, who No. '7 IB4-l

take these rights for granted, to support them in their cause. What they are asking is very simply that we bring to bear through the Federal Government of Canada the weight of public opinion against the Government of the Republic of China for this brutal act. And Canada is very well positioned to do this. Because since the 1 open door 1 p o J. i c y in Chin a • Canada was the first country allowed into that RepubJ.ic. Because . of Dr. Bethune, who is a Canadian and who is a national hE!ro in China, the Chinese people care about what the Canadian people think.

Canada is also participating in numerous economic exchanges and trade missions, assisting l:he chinE!Se with technology transfer, and at the moment they need the good will and support of Canada.

Now Canada as a nation in the world is held in very high respect, but in recent years it has been sometAJhat wimptsh -in tE !r'rns of speaking out against things that have taken place, particularly where it affected our own economic dealings, and lAIC~ would ask wjth this rE!solution that the Government of Canada take strong political and economic sanctions against the government of the People 1 s Republic of China unless they agree to immediately halt thi~ absolutely appalling and brut.al massacre that is taking place even as I speak in this Chamber. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear. hE!ar! MR.

SPEAKER : The hon . l:he Gov•~rnrnent House Leader. MR. BAKER : Thank you, Mr . Speaker . Ull-2 June 5, 1989 Vol XU I rise to speak in support of this resolution, as was indicated earlier. I IAJatchE!d, as dtd we a11, ,in horror to the incidences in Tiemanman 1 s SquarE! in Beijing. W(:~ did watch ar·mored cars, tanks and armed soldiers attacking the students who had been demonstrating :Ln that Square. The purpose of thcdr demonstration is thE!ir businE!SS, but I think that everybody agrees that the right to demonstrate is a right that should be E!njoyed by pE!Ople all ovc:~r the world . Their immediate object ~.

I suppose, was to obtain a l :it:tle say :in thE! dir·ection that the countr·y is taking. ThE!Y being l:he e1i te, I suppose, the intellectuaJ. eJitE! of ·the society, F~7-lt that !:hey had been left out of the decision making process and did not like the direction that was being taken by . thE!ir governrnE!nL., so they protested in the only way possible, peacefully. I do not know how lndny students have bE•en slaughtered. Last night I did hE!ar one r(~por ·\:er dc~scribe it as thE! people's army IAJagi.ng IJJal" on the people.

I do not know how many students have been slaughtered, but reports that perhaps thE! army has bE!E!n taking away bodies for cremation so that no accurate count is possible. It is a situation thal: L"e all abhor and wish to protest in our own way. There are severa1 thousands Chinese students :in Canad ia n universities, b"!ns of t.housands in Arner·ican universiti•cos, and at so1ne point consideration has to bE! given, as well, to taking this resolution a Jitlle bit farther and suggesting that perhaps if Lhe need exists, these students No. 7 1Dt~2

prE!SE!ntly political situation in China, straighten revolution. in Canada be granted asylum un!:il the straightens itself out if indeed it ever will itself out short of I am pleased to support this resolution today. As the member for St. John • s East, Ms Duff pointed out, Canada has been a leader in terms of relationship with China: The opening of the embassy, the agreeing to ·allow China to become part of the United Nations community, the tr·ade delegations, and so on.

Canada has bN!n a world leader in tE!r·ms of rE!COgni tion of China as a member of the world community, therefore, perhaps what Canada does will have more impact than other countries around the world . We support this resolution wholeheartedly and WE! do ask the federal governrnE!n t to, in the strongest way possible, convey their outrage and displeasure at what has happened in the last fE!W days in Beijing. SOME HON. MEMBERS: tiear, hE!ar! MR. SPEAKER: Since it was unanimously agreed to have the resolution and the debate pro c-e ~;:~ d in this or· de r , I do not know if it is necessary for ThE!

Chair to call For the question, but we will do it anyway. Is th(:~ House ready for the question? SOME HON . MEMBERS: Ready . On mol:ion, thE~ resolution carried unanimously. Orders of the Day was L3ll-3 June 5, 1989 Vol XU MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of Oppo~ition . MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker . At adjournrnE!nt timE! on Friday, I was having a fE!W wor·ds to say in the Throne Speech debate.

I would like to take a few more minutes today to touch on some of the subjects I did not get an opportunity to touch on on Friday, as for thE! time be:l.ng, at least, we head into what will be the last day of the Throne Speech, undoubtedly, with the budget tomorrow. Following th e presentation of the BudgE:d:, no doubt we will be moving tnto the Budget Debate itself . Mr. Speaker, there a number of items in the Throne Speech which I think arl'! worthy of comiiiE!nt.

I t:h.i.nk I proi:H<tbly mE!ntiom~d on opening day that, wjth the economy of Newfoundland and Labrador so intertwined with the fishery, I thought: thE1re was an unusual amount of time spent. :l.n thE! lhron E! Speech talking about i \:.•,•ms 1: ha 1: were a little bit more nebulous in their effE!Ct in l:his Province \:han the rE!al hard corE:~, nuts and bo1t.s effect of the fishery and what the nE!W goVE!rnrnent :i.n\:(:'nd~:!d to do during its mandate .in pursuing economic recovery in the fishery itself. There was a J.ot of taJ.k j n th E!

Throne spe ech about M•?ech Lake c'tnd what possible effect that might have on the OVE !rall development :in the Province . n iere was a lo t of talk in the fhr·one SpE!E'Ch on how that may or may not affect relations between the Government of Canada and the Governm ent of No. 7 R3ll-3

Newfoundland and Labrador as it might relate to the fishery, but it did not seem to get tied together at all, in any concrete way what the government•s plans were for the further development of the fishery in Newfoundland and Labrador, at least in outline, through the Throne Speech. I think there are some areas where this House deserves to know From the government what advice the Government of Newfoundland' and Labrador is offering to the GovernmE!nt of Canada.

We already know that the Government of Canada has set up a special Cabinet committE!B to dea1 with the crisis in the Atlantic fishery, we know that the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador have paralleled a Cabinet committee headed by the han. the Premier to work with that particular fE!deral Cabinet committee, but I think we need to know what kind of advice it is that the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador is pursuing, what line of thought the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador is pursu-ing lArith the federal government. I do not mean for a minute, Mr.

Speaker, that I expect the Premier or· any ministE!r to provide details to the Legislature. In other words, as ministers are fond of saying, as we were fond of saying when we were there, and as I heard the Premier himself say a few days ago, I do not expect the Premier and ministE!rS to nE!gOU.atE! in public. Thai: is certainly not a reasonab1E! expectation.

But I do beliE!Ve that, in br·oad . policy terms it is incumbent on the Premier <.'lnd l:he goVE!rnment to !:ell the House what kind of advice they are giving to their counterparts in Ottawa when it comes to matters related not only to the fishery but to the whoJ.e economy of L3'1-4 June 5, 1989 Vol XU Newfoundland and Labrador . I want t.o talk about thE! f:Lshery for just a Few minutes. We know, Mr. Speaker, that we can manage the resource as good as is humanly possible. We can have a sound rnanagE!InE!nt policy for l:he ftshory resource within 200 mil~s. We know that.

Now, we also know \:hal: over the past seVE!ral yeclrs t.hE!re has no doubt been room For improvement, but. WE! do kno1.1,J that we can do whatE!Ver il: -.is we lAJdnt to do within 200 m:i.lE!S. But thE~ reality and the fact of the mattE!r, Sir, is that about 20 per cent of the time a laJ~ge body of the stock that we refer to commonly as Northern cod is outside of 200 mn.es.

We knolAJ that a 1aJ~gE! amount of l:he t.l.1n:::! a lot of that fish swims in what is still intcu·nat:ional lAJatE!rS, and it is while it is in international waters that thE!re is the lack of any kind of a sound management strategy because of the i neffE!Ct:iVE!ness of NAFO. WE! knotJ.J that thE!re ai~E! no rulr::•s, rl'::~ally; t.hE!re arE! ru] es in pJ.ace but they a1ne not enforceable. And the European Economic Community, particularly mernbE!rS l.:ikE! Spa . .in and Portugal have been consistently overfishing that resource when it is outside of 200. Now I would like to know, Mr.

SpeakE!r, and I beLiE:we !:his House should know, what k:lnd of advice in broad policy l:E!rlns that thE! new Government of Newfoundland and Labrador is providing to the Government of Canada in that 1~E!ga1nd. ThE!rE! is a lar·ge body of opinion in Newfoundland and Labrador, there .is a largE! body of opinion in Atla~tic Canada, and thE!re set,!lnS t:o be 1nor·e dnd rnore conVE!rts t.o thE:~ opinion in Ot l.:atAJa, that per·haps it rnighl: be poss.ib1e to haVE! a func li.onaJ E!Xtension of No. 7 tn44

jud.sdiction, not an extE!nsion of sovereignty but a functional extension of jurisdiction over the live fishery resource, and that it might be possible to achieve that within the international community. I would like to know whether in discussions so far with representatives of the federal government the Premier and the present government supports that approach.

Are the Premier and the present government strongly urging thE! federal government to pursue, to try and ar·ticulate and outline once and for all in legal documents and in diplomatic dealings with the international commun1ty a strong sol1d legal case for functional extension of jurisdiction to manage the fishery resource by the coastal state when it is outside of 200?

Is the government taking that approach in dealing with the federal government, or is the Newfoundland government, in fact, saying to the Government of Canada, look, we may as tJJell throw up our ar·rns, thE!r'E! is nothing we can do about the resource once it is outside of 200? Because if the government is doing the lat:ter, Mr. Speaker, and publicly saying, publicly supporting the platitude that th(~ only J ong-terrn answer is a functional extension of jurisdiction then the government is in fact doing a disservicE! to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

We should know clearly, unequivocally and without doubt what position the Government of Newfoundland is putting forward to the Government of Canada on the long-term solution to the overfishing problem outside of 200. That should be addressed and I would hope that the Ptnernier or the MinistE!r of fj.sheries w:iJ.l take an opportunity somc::d: .i me during th:i s Throne SpeE!Ch debate, LJlt-5 June 5, 1989 Vol XLI or sometime soon, to tell the House initiatives this new this new administration be able to what new government, has taken.

Everybody knows, t:he record i.s clear, that for years and years Newfoundland pursued, or al:t(!ITtpt:E•d to convince the Gover·nrn~1nt of Canada to pursue the option of extending jurisdiction. Everybody knows there is a great deal of difficulty embodied wjthin that option. But th:.:!re seE!InS 'l:o be more and more a conse!nsus of opinion among the ex per · ts that if you were to proceed along the lines of an extens1on of management jurisdiction, just ability to manage the resource by the coastal state, that perhaps that might have some dE•gree of acceptance in the international community.

So I would like to know whether the government is actively pursuing 1:hat option and aci:'.iVE!ly trying to convince the GoVE!rniTIE!nt of Canada. Yes, I know dnd re!aliZE!, and we a11 rE•aJ.tze that it is the responsibility of the Government of Canada to carry out those negotiations with the international community. ThE~ Provincial government can be helpful. They can be useful. They can be supportive. rhey can try to urge and cajoJ.e the Government of Canada to proceed and to foLlow that l:ine. And if they are not, then, of course, tJJe would ljke to know exactly what it is that the government is doing. Mr.

Speaker, I suspE!Cl: tomorrow .i.n thE! budgE!t we wj11 have a cJear'E!r '.idea of what th1s government's agenda is. I bE!lieve I sa:i d that quite clE!arly on opening ddy. And it t.~.Ji11 be int:erE:1sU.ng indeed to see the dE!hd.l of IAJhat, out: of necessity, is normally glossed No. 7 R34-5

over in the Throne Speech. It lAlill be indeed interesting to see thE:1 detail, hope~fully more de~tail than we got today in the statement from the Premier, of what this Economic Recovery Team is all about. It will be interesting indeed to see the detail of how the government proposes to deal with the crisis in the health care system in this Province.

There have been statements from the government when they were Opposition, there have been statements from the government during the election campaign and since, that they intend to ensure that an adequate amount of financial resources is made available to the health care sector to deliver a first-class health care system to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. To that we all say 'Ditto', Mr. Speaker. There is not one pe~rson in their right mind lAJho would not support that kind of general statement .

What we will be int.erestE!d in seeing in dE!tail is how the government will be supporting that plat .i tude, how the government will be, colloquially speaking, putting its money where its mouth is, how the government will be providing the new resources For nurses and more doctors and more specialists and building new hospitals and refurbishing older hospitals and all of that.

These are the things that the hon. gentlemen talked about consistently, and I think these are the things, if I could be so bold as to suggE!St, Lhat l:he people of Newfoundland and Labrador are expecting the government to react to immediately. TI'J!:!ri O! is absolutely no doubt about that because the han. gE!nt:lernen made it abundantly L.34-6 June S, 1989 Vol XLI clear that they So, therefore, the Province tonight, the budget, Mr. anxiously awaiting MR. R. AYLWARD : would do that. people of this on the eve of SpeakE!r, are They will be awake all night. MR.

RIDEOUT: They will be awake all night. - that document tomorrow to see if the government is on course and true to its commitments. There will be no doubt about thclt. So we will have i:o tJ.Jait for another few hours and then we wjll be able to make more comment. In the field of education, will the government be moving immediate 1 y to en sure l:ha t l: he Education Equalizatjon Program is totally funded, for example? rhe party that is nolAJ th~~ government. c e r t a i n 1 y h a s bE! e n o n r e c or d , r~1 r .

S p E! a k E! r· , in n urn e r o us · -·for urns , t n this House and outside, as cornmiU.ng itSE!lf t.o fuLI.y funding that Equalization Formula. That will take sever·al mi11i.on dollars this Y"=1ar, $8 million or $10 million or $15 million, I bel:i.eve, to fully fund the progr<:tm. Ii: l>.Jas a program that we began and, over a period of two or three years, got it up to $5 million or $6 mi11.ion. fhel"l:;! is si::ll1 a 1aJ"ge amount of money ne cessary to fund the program E!qually throughout l::h•:• ProvinCE! .

Will the government in l:he new budg<'d: be 111oving to do ·.'HA.tay lAri . th School Tax Authorities? ThE!rE! ha ~:; been resolution after resolution prE!Sented by that party whE!I1 ·UH '!Y were over here, ov er the last several years, up to and inc1uding last yE!ar, Mr. SpE!aker, lAii 'H"n l:he party co111rn:itt:ed its"=1J.f to moving to fully disband School Tax No. 7 R34 -6

Authorit:.ies and raise the equivalent amount of Funding, that now goes into the education system out of School Tax Authorities, through some other means. Now, I would assume that the Minister of Finance and the Minister of Education wtll be re!ady to tell us what those means are. We know sorne of the options, Mr. Speaker. Some of the options were presented to us. I believe a two point increase in the sales tax would do it. That would give you the $32 million that you have to put back into the system if you take out the $32 million that the School Tax Authorities now raise and put into the education system.

So two points on the sales tax will do it for you, if you want to go that route. I understand, Mr. Speaker, that six points on thE~ personal income l:ax scale will do it for you if you wanted to go the route of personal income tax. So these are the de:~tails that we IAJi .ll be looking forward to wi\:h a great degree of anxiety tomorrow becausE~ we must, Mr. Speaker, see some movement along those lines. In fact, we fully expect that some of those programs will be fully implemented as a result of budgetary announcements tomorrow. The people CE!rta.inly expE!Ct that.

But thE!re must be movement aJ.ong the lines that WE!re articulated as policy positions by the hon. gentlemen opposite when they 1/J, ,!re over here and when they were in other places. The people are going to bE! watching ve1~y, VE!ry carefully to see if there is a movement away or if there is a move:!lnent forward. MR. N. WINDSOR : Who will be r·eading t.he Budget tomorrow? The President of L.3 4-7 June 5, 1989 Vol X L.I Treasury Board? MR. RIDEOUT: That is anothe!r key qUE!Stion, Mr. Speaker: Who is reading the budget speech tomorrow? We knoiAJ who presented The Interim Supply Bill of in excess of $1 billion?

MR. BAKER: Mostly yours. MR. RIDEOUT: Yes, SE!Ven hundrE:~d and sorne odd million of it Wds ours. That is right, And, therefore, Mr. Speaker, we kno11J who presE!ni:E!d i.i:, Newfoundland and L.abrador know that, but wh~>.n it c(:u1w \:o defending it H: IAJas thE! President of Treasury Board. So we will be anxiously in our seats tomorrow, as the clock ticks up to two, watching who is going to rise with !:he Budget SpeE!ch in . his or her hand, and who is going to read the Budget Speech. Maybe the tell tale will bE! who has thE! nE!I~I shoE!S on . That might be the dE!I:atl.

If u.Je could see sornE!body coming ·into the Chamber with a new pair of shoes on . That is a legitimate expense, I suppose, a llE!W pair of shoes. We also wjll be looking forward to more detail on a nu1nber of government programs, a number of government supported initiatives. Again, corning back to thjs IAJhole question of post -secondary education in Labrador WE!St, therE· were no ifs, ands, buts, or ors in the Premier 1 s statement when as Leader of !:he Opposition, campaigning in the election, he made thE~ ·comrnitrnE!nt. Nor LJJas hei~E! any in minE !, quite frankly. There wc~rE! no ifs, ands, bub:, or or·s.

The conunitment by both of us, by rnE! as Pr'E!Inic~r· at l:he l:illl<:! dnd the Leader of the Opposition seeking to bE!CC11ne PrE!mier, WE! both madE! a No. 7 R3 4-7

cornrnitmE!nt. I will tell you one thing, I passed the tenth day, and that is more than some of your colleagues in other places can say. Mr. Speaker, both .of us made a commitment so, therefore, the people in Labrador West felt very comfortable. They obviously knew that one or the other of us would form a government. That was a penetrating insight into the obvious, one or the other of us would form a government, so with both of us comrniting our respective governments to moue immediately in September 1989 to institute post-secondary education, those people felt comfortable.

I would suggest it had the same effect as a contract. One or the ot:her oF us would form the government, therefore both of us, being honourable gentlemen and a leader of the government,, would car·ry thr·ough on our commitment. It was nol: a nebulous commitment. Neither was mine. Both of our commitrnr:~nts were to s\:.art the program in September 1989. Now, one thing we noticed very carefully about this government, Mr.

Speaker, is when thE!Y want to back away from a political commitmE!nt, t.IJhen this gouermnent does not want to take the heat as po 1 i ti c:ians a1ne e le c tE!d to do, particularly ministers, when they do not tAiant to do that, Mr. Speaker, they immediatE!ly turn it to the burE!aucrats. fhat is the immediate reaction. And, that, Mr. Speaker, is t:he most cowardly reaction of any elected person that I have ever heard tell of. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. RIDEOUT: When you do not want to answer the question, when you know you are backsl.id :ing, whE!n you know you L3 4-8 June 5, 1989 VoJ.

XLI have done wrong, when, for whatever reason, you cannot keE!p your commitment, if it. is a 1noads program, if it is municipal capital works, if it "is a stadium that had been commitE!d, if it. is post-secondary E~ducation, blame it on thc~1 bureaucrats. They are not in here, Mr. Speaker, to take the heat. The bur·eaucrats ar~~ not here to answer the question directly from me or one of my colleagues, Is that t:he advice you gave your minister? Why has thE! ad u ice changE! d o u e r the 1 as t tl.JJo , three, or four months, Mr·. Speaker?

Bureaucrats wore certainly atAiare of the govenment commitment: to proCE!ed to :irnplelllE!nt post-secondary education in Labrador West. They were certainly ordered to pr·o ceed with working out the details of keeping that commitment in 1989 . What about down in Burin? I expect, Mr. Speaker, we wjJ.]. be told tomorrow in the Budget that the Burin program is going _ahE!ad. What is so diffei~E!nt about Bur·in than Labrador West? Why is it 1: h a t L a b r ad o r We s t tAl a s p .i c k e d o n and Burin left alone? MR. MATTHEWS: Labrador West was in place before . MR. RIDEOUT: Labrador West was in place before.

This foolishness, Mr. Speaker·, of lack of fac:.LJ.iU .es. I talked to people _up in Labrador West, Mr. Speaker, on two or three different occasions involved wi th this post-secondary education Commil:.t:E!e during !:he past Fit;e or six months and tlwy telJ me t:ha t the facilities are not perfect but it can certainly be done there. fhey te11 me that it: is possib1e to do it and not sacrifice anything. The time frame, Mr. Speaker, in No. 7 R3LJ.8

terms of moving on this commitment in Labrador West is no tighter than the time frame was in moving in Grand Falls and Lewisporte - no tighter. In fact, i:he time frame for advertising and hiring professional personnel, as I understand it , IJJa s e v p n a 1 it. t 1 e longer than the time frame that was available to implement the program in Central Newfoundland. My understanding is that out of the ten or twelve positions that need to be filled to implemerit the program in Labrador West, that nine or ten potential people locally have the qualifications and have in fact filed applications to fill those jobs.

So, if t.hE! facilities can bE! made available, if the professional expertise is there, what is the hang --up? The hang-up, Mr. Speaker, is one thing. The hang--up will be seen in the budget tomorrow. It is poliU .cs and it . is money. Politics and money, money and politics, that is IAJhat the hang--up is, and I am surprised that the Minister of Education would stand .in the House and say: I have~ to absolve myself of this sin and blame it on l:he advice that I am getting from my professionals. I am surprised that he would do that, r·eally, reaJ.ly surprised, but we t/Jill see. Mr . SpeE~ker, the hon. the!

Ministe!r of Works, is Trans porta t·.lon again, a great man, SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. RIDEOIH: Services and in his seat Mr·. Speaker. ThE! hon. st.oVE!pipe wj.11 go down in history . I read u.rith great interc~st in one L349 June 5, 1989 Vol XLI of the local pap1 :•rs a couplE! of weeks ago a quote from the Premier•s Chief of Staff, Principal Secretary , Senior Policy Advisor, Mr. Miscellaneous, another gr'E!at man, but I read tMith interE!St his comments and t:he follow-up comments of the Premier, i:hat rninistE!rS would no longc::~r be permitted discretionary ministerial c--:~dVE!rtising.

It \AJas a waste of money. It was not necessary. The administration tAJas out to save money and be very, ver·y fiscally responsible in dealing wj_t.h the taxpayE!rS money . But I could not beliE!UE! my eyE!S, Mr.

Speaker, OVE!r thE! weekend, having heard the enunciation of the Premier that this was sinful - anything that the Preur.ieJ" does not likE! is (:1ither sinful or· obscenE! or something or· other; i. t .is unprincipJ.ed and , you knou.J, hE~ always has to have one of those gr·eat words to dPscribe it.-·· but., anyway, there tJJas the hon. !:he Minister of Works, S~rvices and Trans port at i o n , bE! a r d and a 11 , r.ll r . Speaker, the bearded wonder, in the nE!WSpapers of the Prov :ince this WeE:~kend in an rninister·ial ad offer".ing his congratulations on what was it? - Nationa1 Transportation Week!

It was in The Evening Telegram. It was in The Sunday Express. Some people have told me that it. has bE!E!n in a number of other local papers around the Province. Mr·. Speaker, I understand cHlother · minister adverti sE •d .in much th1':! same way this particular · IAH:'ek end, the M-inister of the Environm ent and Lands (Mr. KeJ land), who j s not not here right now. Rut I: he Minister of EnvironrnE·nt and Lands, I understand, advertised Lhe sdme way. MR. GILBERT: A point of order, Mr. Speaker . No. 7 R34 -9

MR. SPEAKER : A point of order. MR. RIDEOUT: Did the han . gentleman raise point? I did not hear him . MR. SPEAKER: A point of order, Minister of Works, Transportation. MR. GILBEIH : the hon. Services a the and Mr . Speaker, I sort of heard' with interest the Leader of the Opposition -- SOME HON. MEMBERS: Leader number one. MR. GILBERT: Leader number one, is it? In view of the fact that he FE!lt that I was was contravening the established policies of the government, I thought it was only fair t h a t I s h o u 1 d p o s· s-i b ly t e 11 him that he is making a mistake, again, as usual. For his information, Mr.

Speaker, there was an ad appeared, as I undc::~rstand it, in the papers over the weekend conCE!rning NationaJ. Transportation Week . This ad was put in there becaUSE! of the printing deadlines, as I understand it.. When I checked wj th the officials in my department this morning, the people at the paper wanted it, and it was placed there before the policy that we are now talking about was established by this government. So the officials in my departmE!nt, Mr.

Speaker, were following the policy of the previous Tory Government, and the waste that was inherent thE!re, and they did not realize that we had introduced a new policy. So I assure han. members that there is no U':>O June 1), 1989 Vol XU dissention in the ranks. My officials are now aware of the policy for advertising, and I am sure that the Minister of EnvironrnE!nt' s people are aware, and thE! point will bE! tah~n CiH'E! of and, have no fear, !:here ·.is no dissention. It wa .s a Tor'y poJ.icy ·that my officials did not rE!ali?.E:~ we had changed. SOME HON . MEMBERS : Hear, hE!ar! MR. TOBIN: Mr .

Speaker, to the point of order . MR. SPEAKER: To the point of order, l:he member for Burin wr::~ st. MR. TOBIN: the han. Placentia Mr. Speaker, to that point of order. I just cannot bc<l'i .eve l.JJhat WE! are hear-.ing. fhE! reason why this appeared in the paper today was because of a printing deadline set by The Evening Telegram? WhE!n do Lh;:!y pr'int their papE!rs, Mr. Speaker? It : lAJas last l.JJ(~ek that the::~ Lec:AdE!l~ oF l:he Opposition hE!<:~rd thE:' person up on the eighth floor' say that Frcnn now on it. js going to close. I lAJas condemned two weeks ago. AN HON. MEMBER : Another lte . MR.

TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, now it had l:o be presented in this House . What the not k nolAJ but IAJhat in the ser'ious; minister just scd.d, I do if he realizes it or not, ht" said IAJas that was put pap C! r -- t. h ·i. s i s v E! ~~ y you have to be;• truthfuJ. House - because of the dE!adJ.ine for The Evening in this pdnting Telegram, contraVE!nE:~ and it did not the orders of Lhe No. '7 1nso

Premier. Now, Mr. Speaker, what is it? Did it contravene the orders of the Premier or was the printing deadline for The Evening Telegram two weeks ago? Mr. Speaker, he should listen to this. MR. HOGAN: Are you serious? MR. TOBIN: Yes, I am serious. The member for Placentia, Mr. Speaker, may not understand what the truth me~ns to this Legislature. But nobody, including the Minister of Transportation, can be dishonest 'in this House, and the facts he gives have got to be factual. There is something here that we are on to now, Mr. Speaker.

And I want an explanation further to this: Is the minister being truthful to this House to say that this is here because of a printing deadline of The Evening Telegram? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! .~B· SPEAI$_t~: There is no point of order. MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Obviously there :is not a point: of order. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Leader of the· Opposition. MR. RIDEOUT: I wonder if \:he hon. gentleman is paying any heed at all, Mr. SpeakE!r, l:o Your Honour· 1 s -Your Honour being Speaker, you are thE! Deputy Speaker -instructions in private session every day?

Only a day or two ago 1-i:is Honour· took the time for· the benefit of a11 1_3 I) 1 June 5, 1989 Vol XU members to articulate the inappropriaten(!SS of rnernbE!rs on rdther side of thE:~ House standing on a point of order when it obviously is not a point of order, but at best the difference of opinion between two han. members. Your Honour w.ent through that· lAri.l:h all han. rnernbE!rS in private sess·ion. It is not much po.inl: of doing it. It is just as tAJe11 to cancel SpeakE!r 1 s corner if we dre going to continue to abuse thosE:~ kinds of thin(:~s. Let me say to Mr.

SpE!aker, should do a First of ali, his personal for the ad. MR. SIMMS: Right on! the han. th~::~ han. couple of hE:~ should chE!que book SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. RIDEOUT: rninisl:er, rrdnister things. take out:. and pay Because the PrE:~rn:iE!r said, Mr. Speaker, that those k:Lnds of' things c:~re sinful. The PrE!Irl:'ler said those kj.nds of things at'e obscene. So if he is going to live up to t.he ethica1 standar·ds of his beloved Ernp(!ror, t:hen l·w is going to have to take out hjs cheque book and pay For that ad out. of his OlAJI1 pockE!t, nurnbE!r ono, Mr. Speaker. MR. SIMMS: Which he will do.

MR. RIDEOUT: Nurnber· two, Mr. SpeakE!r, lllaybE:~ Ul(! hon. minj stE!r will tAJant to look a L Hansard vel~y, V<:!r'y catneful1y today, and having look~::~d at it, he tn:ight decide, Mr. SpE!('~kE•r, l:hat maybe it tAJas worLh his lAJhi1e, evE•n if he has to pay out of his otAJn pocket, to get. his min:lstE!r'ia1 No. 7 f\3 51

statement and picture in the paper. MR. SIMMS: Not Beothuck Ford. MR. RIDEOUT: Be:~cause hE! might not bE! a mtnister very long. SOME HON. MEMBE RS: Hear, hear! MR. RIDEOUT: The minister was asked a very pointed question today, Mr. Speaker. And I am sure my colleague, the mE,rnber for Burin -­ Placentia West, will be following up the minister 1 s answer in Question Period again. He was asked a particular question related to a government decision on the second f(~rry for Bell Island and a particular question regar·ding whether or not a Minute of Council was issued on that particular matter.

The Minister unE,quivocally anstJ.Jered no. -NotAl, Mr. Speaker, we have reason to beJ.ieve that there is, in fact, a Minute in Council, and that a decision has been taken, so remE!rnber the day, today is June 5, and rE,rnember the question and remember the answer, because no doubt we tJ.J:ill be corning back to a statE,rnent of fact, again no ifs, and buts, but a statement of fact clearly and unequivocally answ1;H··ed by the Minister, no. MR. SIMMS: Chance for Cabinet, boys. fhe boys got their tongues down to their ankles waiting for the Cabinet post . MR.

RIDEOUT: I know every tjme we over here mention the possibility of a Minister getting in trouble, Mr. Speaker, there are those in the backbenches who are almost under 1_31)2 June 5, 1989 Vol XU their desks clapping their hands, waiting for it to happen. I spent some timE' Friday on that, Mr. Speaker, so we will ker~p a running score on what is happening over there and lE!t the House know fr·om time to time. The other thing- MR. EFFORD : (Inaudible) you fellows did. MR . RIDEOUT: Mr.

Speaker, if HIE!re is anybody who ought to know when the hon. the Minister of Social Services talks about us feJ.J.ows -·· I assume he means us han. f~:,llot.us <'Old ladies -· but when h!i:' taJ ks about that, if thE!re is anybody who is an expert at enticing colJ.eagues down to a certain address in St. John 1 s and helping to pJ.ot the overthrow with the for·1ner Lead(~r of the Opposition- MR. SIMMS: Right on, yes C'' .::dr . MR. RIDEOUT: While he IJ.Jas at t.ending the Boston Seafood Shot/J, in 1ny presence, by the way, and I can tell him about all the visits and who was the,re.

I cannot teJ.1 h:i .m what was talked about because I was not there. Mr. Speaker, that is tJ.Jhy the PrE,rniE!r would not: go t:o 0\:.tawa to see the Prime Minister the current fishery crisis. But: I can tell him this, I can tE·ll him who visited, t/JI'lt:~n thE'Y visi I:E!d and how often they we~e there. And the hon. gE,ntlr:~rnan lAias prominent: among them, there is no doubt about that. But, Mr. SpE!C1ker, befor·e my t.:"i.me runs out. hE!Y'e, I want to mE:,ntion one othe'r rnat:h:'r !:hdt: WE! E!XpE!CL to be addressed ,again, tomorrow, by the Minister of Finance in the budgE!t.

ThE! ink was not dry on No. 7 1\3 52

their commission when this suspect that I to over of the government began what I now, from the information have in effect will amount a million dollar purge bureaucracy. This government began, Mr. Speaker, a million dollar purge of the bureaucrats for what reason? For what reason, Mr. Speaker? We had the Premier talk about some bureaucrats were redundant because of the combination of depart~ents . Well, the point I am coming to, Mr.

Speaker, is simply !:his, t:hat again, the Premier or any minister must have the intestinal forti tude to tell the people of this Province t.1.lhy you embark on a certain direction, why is it you do it? The PrE!Inier•s excuSE! to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador was because of consolidation. That was part of i.t, no doubt about that, and I accept that. But what excuse does the Premier give say for~ say, the former deputy Minister of Fishertes. ThE!re ts no consolidation that wiped out the Department of Fisher-ies. What was the problem thE!re? He has nE!Ver come forwt'lrd and said what it was.

Again, he has hid behind the skirts of the bureaucracy on this one. What was the problem with \:he for·mer Deputy Mtnts ter of Education, for example? What was the problem wt th t:he foi"Jner Assistant Deputy Minister of Education? What: was the problem with the former Deputy Minister of Justice? There is position after position where this government engaged in a purge the likes of which has not. bE!en se0.n j n this P1novince since Confederation, that will cost the taxpayers well in excr::~ss of a million dollars, Mr. SpE!akE!r, tJ.JelJ. in E!XCE•ss of a million dollars.

L3 53 June 5, 1989 Vol XLI We have not yet had the Premier tell the people of Newfoundlt'lnd and Labrador why it was done . Were those people incompetent? If they were. get up and say it., Mr. Speaker. Were those people politically partisan? If they wr:•re, get up and say it, Mr. Speaker. Were those people idiots? If they WE!re, gEd:. up i'.lnd say it, Mr. SpE!aker. Or would you prefE!r to take again the rou l:E! of the coward and hide behind the civil servtce and the burr::~aucracy and only comE! forward when it is to your political advantage to come forward? That has to be answerE!d, Mr. Speaker.

It has no\: been answered to the people of Newfoundland and Labr·ado1~ yet. nor has it. bElen answered in tl'd.s House. Hon. gentlc~men shake l:hE '!:lr heads. Well, lE!t hon. gentlE!men get up and tell us why thE! forrner Deputy Minister of Fisheries was fired. fell us. Gc::~t up ,9.nd \:E!ll us, that. is a11 we ar'E'' as k:Lng. The people haVE! a right Lo knot~.J. The people are footing the bill for his severance package. rhe people are footing the bill for any additional pE!nS -.:Lon t:ha t hE! might be given. It is the people • s money . We hat;::• a right to ask those questions in this House, Mr. Speaker.

MR. GRIMES: He could say that was told in private. it out loud. MR. RIDEOUT: publicly. He He could s ""'Y What a sham, Mr. Speaker! Grow up, I have to say to the hon. the member for Exploits. What naivety! Now, I know the hon. gentlc:!man is nE!W here, but tAJhat naivety. Mr·. Sp~~aker, to say that. thE! for·1111?.r DE!pU ty M.inis \":E!r of FishE•ries or Justice or· Education or t.1.lhoever else has \:he opl:.ion l:o go out and tell what he was told . No. 7 R353

The Premier was the one who fired hirn. MR. SIMMS : Right! Right on! MR. RIDEOUT: The Premier is the one who was elected, i.t IJJdS not the former Deputy Minister of Fisheries. What a silly, naive comment to make, Mr. SpE!aker. Grow up, boy! You are in the HouSE! of Assembly! What a silly comment, Mr. Speaker! MR. SIMMS: He must think he is at an NTA convention. AN HON. MEMBER : What about the purge in Peckford 1 s office? MR . RIDEOUT: Maybe it was the right thing to do to gut her out. I did not say it was not. What I am saying, Mr. Speaker, is that the Leader of the Government must answer for it.

The government must defend his actions. It is not up to Ray Andrews to defend why hE! was fired, or somebody else why he was fired, it was up to thE! firer to tell what he was doing, Mr. Speaker, in this case, the Premier . It was up to him to tell what he was dcd.ng. They arE! not elected people. Mr. Speaker·, the per·son t ..

Jho is now the Deputy Minister of FishE!ries, for example, at one time tAJas the senior bureaucrat in this Province, tAJho WE!nt on to become president of the Marine InsU .tute at a senior bureaucrat 1 s salary, which was far in E!Xcess of what a deputy minister makes, including the Deputy MinistE!r of Fished .E!S . WhE!n is the ProrniE!r going to tell the flouse what thE! saJ.ary is for 1.3 S4 June 5, 1989 Vol XLI those peoplE! who were brought in? Were they brought in at equivalent deputy minister 1 s salar·iE!S or were they brought in at thr :dr old salaries?

When are we going to have a11 of \:hose ansWE!rs, Mr. Speaker? SOME HON. MEMBERS: In the Budget . MR. RIDEOUT: The Budget tomorrow? fhat is going to be a dE!tail :i.n the Budget? Well, if you can judge from what detaiJ. is in this, Mr. Speaker, I would say that !:he political purge of thE! bureaucracy tAJill not even ratE! a footnote in the Budget tomorrow. That :i.s tJJhat I suspect, Mr. Speaker. Hon. gentlemen wD .J. have to start ansWE!r:ing for thoir actions. fhe bJ.oom wi 11 bE! on thE! ro s P for a while, there is no doubt about that. We are all seasoned people. We have bE!en through all this before.

But the minjst.ry tAJill hclV(! to ansWE!r for its actions and so far, Mr. Speaker, to hide behind the coattails of 1 Oh, you can talk about it if you t..Jant to •, that is not ministerial responsibiJ.ity, that is no t leadership, Mr. Speaker. fhat is not good enough, and it must be done. ~R . SPEAK~~--~no~l : The hon. member 1 s t:i.me has elapsed . SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave! By leave! MR. SPEAKER: The han . Uw member for· flar·b our· Grace. MR. CRANE: Mr. Speaker, first, l:o say how plr:'asr:!d her~~ and rE!present No. 7 I wou] d Jj ,kE! I a1n t:o s b. i nd the pE! OplE' of rn•:,4

Harbour Grace. And you w:lll not. hear me shouting like the previous speaker, bE! CaUSE! I do not. have the ab:ility, the volume :is not thE!re. But I might be more sensible. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hE!dr! MR. SIMMS: (Inaudible) you are fair game. MR. CRANE: That is good. game. MR. SIMMS: Halleujah! MR. CRANE: Praise you! I want to be' fair First of all, Mr. Speaker, I would Like to congratulate you, Str, and the han. ~ember for Bellevue on being elected to your respective offiCE!S. You have been doing a fine job and I know in future your job will gE!t bE!tter, bE!Cause you believe tn equality for everybody.

Sitting here this evening listening to the way thE! House is going on and watching the visitors in the GaJ.leries, I heard thE! Leadc~r of the Opposition say, 11Act your age! Grow up, boy! 11 I think it would be all right if a lot of us grew up, because I am sure some of the visitors to l:he Galleries must go out of here nauseated after listening to a session of this House. Before I start to say anything about my dtstrict, last WE!dnesday, whE!n the member for Burin Placenl:ia West was speak"ing to l:he resolut"ion prE:1sented by the member For St.

Mary 1 s -fhe Capes, he read a prepared script detailing what a for·mer Minister of Fisheries sai~. During his uss June 5, 1989 Vol XLI

preamble hE! turned to me and sar·casttcally sd"id, bE:~cauSE! one part said, 11And thE!Y ar'E! going to build a fish holding facility at Harbour GracE:111, 11I would like to ask the rnernbc~r for Harbour Grace when that fish holding facility is going to have :its official opening.11 Well, I did not want the member for Bur:in -PlacE!ntia WE!S t to be ignorant of the opening datE!, but I did not want to answer that question the other day because there were too many people who wanted to speak on the fi s hE!rie s resolution which was very important to everybody.

I decidE~d I would answer him today, bE:1cause I 1.\Jould not want him to b(~ ignorant, as I say, of l:ho opE!ning date. The tentative dat:e, Sir, :i.s l:he same date that the super·porl: proposed by Frank Moor'E!S in 1972 is going to open. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. TOBIN: Do you think you could possibly get me an invitation? MR. CRANE: Any other -.information t,~.ri..ll comE! to you and you will have an invitation, I assure you. Dur·ing the days leading up to the E!1ection, Mr·.

Speaker, I made• one protn'isE! to the citiz~HlS of Har·bour Grace district, that if I were elE!C tE!d I would work For evE~ryone in the district regardless of politicdl stripe. That is something they were not used to in the past seventeen years. SOME HON. MEMBERS: HE!ar, hE~ar! MR. CRANE: No. '7 1\' 3 5 ~.)

They are enjoying that and I have no problem commitment. right with now, that Our district is not like Eagle River. They did not always elect a Liberal. But I can assure you one thing, when they change the government changes. They are very astute in their politics. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. CRANE: When they know pE!OplE! are sick of the government all over Newfoundland, they get. sick of it. as well. That happ(C~ned again this time. Harbour Grace has its problems, the same problems that every other district has.

Unemployment and lack of water and sewer facilities are certainly the main problems in my district. Since I have been elected I have had many people phone and come to me telling me of water problems: shortage of water and wells gone dry already, at this t:.imE! of yt:.~ar. SomE! of th:::Hn have to car·t water for a mile or two. So you do not have to go into districts far away from St. John's t:o get problems uri th water and SE!Wer. Unemployment in our district is an albatross. It. is like a terminal cancer that kE·E·ps eating away. If something is not done to change the economy, .

Harbour Grace district and Newfoundland generally will be destitute. As a new member sitting in the House this -past week or two, I have been observing and trying to learn how this House operatE!S. I have certainly not bE!E!n overly impress,?.d with the I.AJay some members of the Opposition and L356 June 5, 1989 Vol XU members of the gover·nrnent for the past seventeen years have been operating.

Because they are the people who ere a ted the status quo, they are the people who created the rness we are in right now and, yet, they are complaining every day because the nE!W PlnE!Inir;!r and the new government have not straightened out in three weeks what it took thE!Hl seventeen years to create. Some of the terminology used by members of the Opposition can make onE! smi1e. When rE!ferring to the Premier or some minister •t1hey use words like arrogant and pork barrelling. ·rhey certainly do not need anyone to give thern a definition. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hE!ar! MR.

CRANE: They are well acquaint.E!d w:.i th the terminology and the meaning of it, if our fo1nmer me1nber is any indicator. They talk about the speech from the Throne, the gt:.~nera1ities, bE!ing vagUE!. I IAJas not disappointed with the Speech from the Throne, although I am not famjliar with Speeches from the Throne. I expected it to be of a g E! n e r a l nat u r e , an o u t 1 i n E! of 1.11 hat we can expect l:h.is government to be doing during its mandate. I feel that if the Spt::!(!Ch f!nom Lht::! Throne held the spE!Cifics the Opposition ar·e looking for it: would not bE! thli:~ Speech ft·orn ti-l(!

Throne, it would be the Budget . T h e fa c t j s t: h E'! P r E! rrd c r a n d t. h e goV(H'rllnl:'!nt have idenitiFi.:;!d rnany problems in this Province and ar· e facing those problems. [t is refreshing to hear the Premier say that he will be analyzing the problems, trying t.

c) find the roots of the problem and will do are all in his power to overcome them. No. 7 1ns6

That is more than we heard in the last sevenb:!en years, I arn sure. They knew there were problems, but they dug their hec:~ds in the sand and kept hoping they would go away. Because they certainly did not USE! any treatment other than band·--aid treatment, as r·efen·ed to by the PrE!fnier, and the rE!SUJ.ts of a problem that is given band-aid treatment is that the last. state is a lot worst than the first. As I said, Mr. Speaker, in our district unemployment is an albatross around the neck of our djstrict.

We hope this government can come up with something concrete, something that w~ill give people permanr::~nt employmE!nt, not 10-42, or 10-36, or the Lord knows what is coming down next, becauSE! I see that the federal government has some other options corning out now and it might be 10--28. The problE!rn \!Jas compounded during the election in our area when, bE!cause of the low unemployment rate at the t:irne, they put us in with St. John 1 s. They combined us with St. John 1 s and by doing that, instead of working 10 weeks to receive unemployment bE!nefi ts you have to work 16.

It is no secret why our uneHnpJ.oyment is low in Spring and Fall in Harbour Grace district. It is becausE! of thE! mass E!Xodus out of there to Ontario South, Alberta, British Columbia, or wherever fellows can get a job. It is nothing to see as many as 50, 60 or 70 a week going off the unemployment rolls by going to Ontario or. some other pari of Canada. It is no problem to see why the unE!Inployrnent rates are low this time of year. And, of course, the jobs they pick up in Ontario have little to do wjt.h the initiativE~ of the former goVE!rnmE!nt.

Just beforE! thE! last federal eJection, when things look 1..357 June 5, 1989 Vol XLI bleak for Morrisey Johnson and the PC Federal Government wanted something to shorE:~ up h:Ls re-election, they promised to construct A $40 mi11ion prison in Harbour Grace. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. CRANE: We were happy at the t.oirne bE!Ci'luse we need employment, any kind of E!mployrnE!I1t, -.in that ai~E·a.

But as soon as Mor·risE:~Y Johnson, \AJho was not shored up too well, bit the dust, the federal goUE!rnment carne back and said, 11JI!e cannot afford to build that prison for anotl'lE!r t h r e e y ears . 1 nw y are wa i t: i n g for the next fE!deral E•l(~ct:i .on. Another broken political promise. PeoplE! who were on cloud nj_t'lE! for' a day or two found that their prison wilJ. not only not come thE!re today or tornor·row, but i:l"i(:ll:: it may never comE! there. OnJ.y a year or too before that it was g 0 in g t. 0 BUChan S ; t. hE:~ y S E! E!

ITI t 0 pUt this federal prison any pli:'lce that is appropriate in an election. HoWE!Ver, Morrisey was dE!fE!ated, but they looked after him. I suppose it was not political patronage, that they r.:J,:'Ive h·Ltn a job a day or two ago . We are fortunate to haue a hospital in our aJ~E!a. I do not know ! hoiAJ fortunatE!, becausE! at. a rnet<:~ting with the hospil:.a1 board a couplE! of days ago, we found that things are not very rosy there. It is a 100 --bed hospit.a1. Il: is operating about 85 beds at lhe present time.

And if this government cannot find an infusion of monE!Y \:o go in thE!t~e l:.his yedr, l::hE!rE:~ w:L11 be rnor·e bed cJosures. fhat hospital is cai::E!r':i.nq to dbout 40,000 people and WE! cannot keep No. 7 1\357

100 beds OP G'n. That was not caused by a Liberal Government. It may be rE!ITiedJed. At least I hope it will. The government also identifies problems with education. It fascinates me to listen this evening to the Opposit:i.on criticiZE! the goVE!rnment as to tJJhy they had to postpone for one year, secondary education in Labrador. Nobody wants to see it. postponE!d, but if the Opposition had done their job as a government, there would bE! no nE!E!d to reinstate it, it would still be going there. So why criticize this gover·nment For something they created?

Of all the problems we have in education, the only question I have heard the Opposition raise is 1What are you going to do with the school tax syste!ln? 1 Now, that is a problem. The school tax sysh!ln is a problem t.hat bothE!rs me, why people making $6,000 a year and people m<:~king $106,000 a yE•ar arE! paying the same school tax. It certainly is a bother to me and something that I will be watching. And I hope something is done with it.

In \:he meantime, I am sure people who have been in government For seventeen years could SE!O many mort:~ problE•ms with education, yet that is the only question they could find to ask on the Throne Speech. The government 1s plan to upgrade schools in rural Newfoundland in order to eliminate disparity between urban and rural systems is a refreshing statement to people of rural Newfoundland . This government believes that regardlE!SS of lAJhere dd.ldrE!n live in Newfoundland, t:hc ~y should have equal opportunity.

I am sure that for the past seventeen years a lot L3 ~)8 June 5, 1989 Vo1 XLI of people in rural Newfoundland have felt \:hat thE!Y halH! not hdd that opportunity. The fact that The Throne Speech states post-secondary education wjll be made available outside St. John's will give some children the opportunity to l:i1; e at home. I can understand the disappointment of the mE!rnber for ME!n.ihE•k that .il: did not reach down there this year. But, at lE!ast, he is much more fortunate than some people, he has a guarantee l:hat . it. wtl be thE!re next year.

Since the former admJnistration signed the agreE!I"nE!nl: l:o S(!/1d \:he railway into oblivion, there is rnore vehicular traffic on the highways. Much nE!eds to be done to the Trans --Canada H'ight.~Jay to bring it to a standard to handlE• l":he increase in t1naff.i..c. BE•sidos this, many of our secondar·y r·oads are still not paved. rhe DepartmE!nt of Tr·ansportati.on nE!C:!dS a great infusion of dollars to bring these roads to an acceptable standard. This Prov"ince just does no\: have the money to provide the transportation needs.

This government Feels the federal government has an obligat io n to provide an acceptable transportation network For the Province, and I whoJeheartedly agree. I hopE! that. dur·ing the mandate of this government it ca n be successful in nE•gotiations lArith thE! fedE!ral goVE!rnrnE!I" "It. in rnak:Lng them understand our case. The fishE!ry has beE!n the bc~ckbone of our economy since John Cabot. At L he present time , L he f i d1 e r· y is facing a lflaj or cr "i.s i.s. rt is going to aff'E!Ct ever·y cornrnunity j n the~ Province. No. 7 R 3 ~) 8 .

The major source of employment in my district is the fish plant. Even before the announcements of more reductions in Northern cod, the Harbour Grace officials informed their employees that their plant would close after the caplin fishery and re -open again in January , 1 9 9 0 . That was before the reductions in Northern cod. In an area where people will be unable to find alternate employment, one would expect the impact on the economy will be enormous.

I was delighted to hear in The Throne Speech that government will work closely with the federal government to develop alternate employment opportunities for people engaged in the fishery and those who will be displaced because of shutdowns . Labour relations between government and unions had been at ~'ln all-time low during the I~Edgn of the past administration. ThE!Y were unable to address such issues as double-breasting, essential t.vor k ers within the public sec tor, pay equity and others.

I would like to say that in the short time the member for Grand Fails spent as Presid(~nt of Treasury Board, he seemed to have morE! success with labour than any of his predecessors. However, much remains to be done in this fir:!ld and I am confident that the Premier and this government will work hard towar·ds solving the many problems that exist between government and unions, government and unionized companies, and the government and non-unionized workers and companies.

Women's Issues: fhe talks about Women's happy to see the L359 June 5, 1989 rhrone Issues . rhl~one Speech I am Speech Vol XLI shows this government is dE!dicated to improving the Status of Women by providing assistanCE! to E!nsure women equal opportunities in the workforce. The one obstacle many women have to overcome in entering workforce is finding child care spaces. Last Fall, when the Tories fought the federal eJection, one of the:~ key platforn1 planks was the excessiVE! E!Xpans:ion of chjld care space across Canada. We ail know what happened.

As soon as the federal election IJJas over, they scrappc!d their plan. They were the governmE!nt bE!fore thE! E!lection so they knew thE! financial statE! of the country and thE!Y rnade prorn .isl':'S just to soJ.icit votes from th(:! poor women of the country. Then a few days later they told them, 'Sorry, we cannot afford it. ' I am happy to see that thE! Premj l'H' is concerm!d about day --Cdl"e and is committed to improving the day--care progri. "\111 as soon ('l.S funding per·mits. Anothe:~r group in Uds Pr·ovincE! I am con c E! r ned abo u -1: ·.i. s l: hE! y o u l: h .

In many instances they complete high school, continue to university or trade schools, and after they cornplc•l:e thE! ir education they cannot find work . I have talked to many young ITI(~I1 and women who have toJd me they have bE! COrne totally frust:l"al:(!d. Many of th~;;'m stay ar·ound for · awhtle and hopE! to ccHnc• up t.u.i Lh a job, wh:iJ.E! many leave For Ontar·io or so111e ol:hE!r par·t of thE! Mainland. The youth of our Province is the one resource we cannot afford to E•xport. They ar'e the backbone of l:hE! fuLure and iF the trend js not reversed, the future of the Province will be greatly weakened.

The Leader of the Opposition, Leader number one, is quite No. 7 R359

concerned about members on this side of thE! House, is quitE• concerned about the Cabinet, that peoplE! from the backbt:~nches are trying to take Lh1:dr jobs. I would like to assure the Leader that no one amongst the backbenchers on this sid(;~ of the House is going to stab any member of the Cabinet in the back. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. CRANE : However, if I W(:'re sitU.ng in his position I would not be so' sure. I think he has a lot more to worry about on that sidE! of the House, about somebody tak:i .ng his job, than anybody on this side. MR. TOBIN: (Inaudible) the difference . r-'IR.

CRANE: I must say that there are some people there who are quite capable of taking his job, but I v..ri.11 not rne,ntion any names, just give initials. The me!lnber for Grand Falls (Mr. Simms). In closing, Mr. Speaker, I IJJould like to say that I am impressed with our Leader. I believe him to be an honest, dedicated, hardworking individual IJ.Jho int.E!nds to lead the government in a manner that wil] make a11 NewfoundlandE•rs proud. Hii belief in fairness, balance and equality of opportunity is something that: 1.~.1as sadly lacking with the previous administration.

I honestly believe that undE!r the lE!adership of the Premier this government will accomplish much during its mandate, and I dm willing to say that history w:ill rE!Cord his many endE!avors and achtevt~ments, dnd that he will be cla ssed as the best Premier of Newfoundland to L360 June 5, 1989 Vol Xl.I date. Thank you, Mr.Speaker . SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Menihek. MR. A. SNOW: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First of all, allow me to congratulate the Hon. Tom Lush on his election as Speaker and you as Deputy Speaker .

I also congratulatE! the Deputy Speab:!r' from the district of Trinity - Bay dE! VerdE •, the Hon . Lloyd Snow, on his election. I am surE! that i:he three of you will do excellent work hcH·e in controlling Jebat:e in this House. I aJ.so beJ.:i.E !VE! that anniversary congratulati ons are necessary here. In perusing the paper yesterday, I noti ced that one of our hon. members celebrated an anniversary recently. I want to offer my congr·at.uJ at.ions to hi111 on this particularly important anniversar·y. The hon.

Uw rnernbE•r For Pleasantville celebrated the fifteenth anniversary of his selection as t:he NDP candoi.dal:e for St. John 1 s East. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. A. SNOW: It is in ·I:.E•rE!St:ing to note that hE· has come full cii" ClE• in the poJ.iU .cal spec tr·um , fr· om left to l:he extl ~( !lne right dnd no w t:he Liberal Party ~f this Province. I am honoured, M1~. Speaker and h o n . me rn b e r· s , to r· :L-. e i n t h i s Hou SE! and rE •preS E!nt the peopl E! of Menihek and to debat:e Lhe ~3pr:!E•ch from th e Thron e. First I would likE ! to pd int a p-i.c tur·E· for· SOillE! No. 7 R360

of you to enable you to have a better understanding of the problems in my district of MenihE:~k. A lot of you have m~ver been thE!re. MR. HOG _AN: I have bee