Manitoba Hansard — 1 November 2005 (Sitting 4, 38th Legislature, 4th Session)

38-4-4

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Fourth Session - Thirty-Eighth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. LVII No. 4 - 1:30 p.m., Tuesday, November 1, 2005

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Eighth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation AGLUGUB, Cris The Maples N.D.P. ALLAN, Nancy, Hon. St. Vital N.D.P. ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thom pson N.D.P. BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli N.D.P. BRICK, Marilyn St. Norbert N.D.P. CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P. CULLEN, Cliff Turtle Mountain P.C. CUMMINGS, Glen Ste. Rose P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P. DOER, Gary, Hon. Concordia N.D.P. DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside P.C.

FAURSCHOU, David Portage la Prairie P.C. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach P.C. HAWRANIK, Gerald Lac du Bonnet P.C. HICKES, George, Hon. Point Douglas N.D.P. IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri Fort Garry N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. JHA, Bidhu Radisson N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LAMOUREUX, Kevin Inkster Lib. LATHLIN, Oscar, Hon. The Pas N.D.P. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns N.D.P. MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood N.D.P. MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon. Lord Roberts N.D.P.

MELNICK, Christine, Hon. Riel N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East P.C. MURRAY, Stuart Kirkfield Park P.C. NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake N.D.P. OSWALD, Theresa, Hon. Seine River N.D.P. PENNER, Jack Emerson P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. REIMER, Jack Southdale P.C. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. ROCAN, Denis Carman P.C. RONDEAU, Jim, Hon. Assiniboia N.D.P. ROWAT, Leanne Minnedosa P.C. SALE, Tim, Hon. Fort Rouge N.D.P. SANTOS, Conrad Wellington N.D.P. SCHELLENBERG, Harry Rossmere N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield P.C. SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St. Boniface N.D.P. SMITH, Scott, Hon. Brandon West N.D.P.

STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon. Dauphin-Roblin N.D.P. SWAN, Andrew Minto N.D.P. TAILLIEU, Mavis Morris P.C. Vacant F ort Whyte P.C. WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. Swan River N.D.P.

79 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Tuesday, November 1, 2005 The House met at 1:30 p.m. PRAYERS ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS PETITIONS Coverage of Insulin Pumps Mr. Ralph Eichler (Lakeside): I wish to present the following petition. These are the reasons for this petition: Insulin pumps cost over $6,500. The cost of diabetes in the Manitoba government in 2005 will be approximately $214.4 million. Each day 16 Manitobans are diagnosed with the disease compared to the national average of 11 new cases daily.

Good blood sugar control reduces or eliminates kidney failure by 50 percent, blindness by 76 percent, nerve damage by 60 percent, cardiac disease by 35 percent and even amputations. Diabetes is an epidemic in our province and will become an unprecedented drain on our struggling health care system if we do not take action now. The benefit of having an insulin pump is it allows the person living with this life-altering disease to obtain sugar control and become much healthier, complication-free individuals. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the Premier (Mr.

Doer) of Manitoba to consider covering the cost of insulin pumps that are prescribed by an endocrinologist or medical doctor under the Manitoba Health Insurance program. Submitted by Verne Slater, Robert Burgess, Erik Olson and many, many others. Mr. Speaker: In accordance with our Rule 132(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House. Amending of The Architects Act Mr. Ron Schuler (Springfield): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition.

These are the reasons for this petition: On September 16, 2005, the Manitoba Court of Queen's Bench revealed a significant conflict between The Engineerin g and Geoscientific Professions Act and The Architects Act. Currently architects are exempt from The Engineering and Geoscientific Professions Act, but engineers are not exempt from The Architects Act. This decision will have a negative effect on the province's building and construction industries, increase costs to municipalities and other levels of government, lead to a brain drain, increase red tape and delay projects.

Previous to the ruling, a choice existed between engaging architects or engineers to perform specified work according to their disciplines while protecting the safety of the public as guided by the Manitoba Building Code. Over the last seven years, the Manitoba Association of Architects (MAA) has rejected the two negotiated solutions. Therefore, legislative change is the only reasonable and sustainable solution. Given the ruling's implementation date is immediate, we call on the government to take appropriate steps in changing the legislation during the current session.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the Premier (Mr. Doer) to consider amending The Architects Act to provide engineers an exemption similar to that enjoyed by the architects under The Engineering and Geoscientific Professions Act. Signed by A. Dilschneider, D. Park, S. Handberg and many, many others. * (13:35) Crocus Investment Fund Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background to this petition is as follows:

80 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 1, 2005 The Manitoba Government was made aware of serious problems involving the Crocus Fund back in 2001. As a direct result of the government ignoring red flags back in 2001, over 33 000 Crocus investors lost over $60 million. Manitoba's provincial auditor stated: "We believe the department was aware of red flags at Crocus and failed to follow up on those in a timely way." The relationship between some union leaders, the Premier (Mr. Doer) and the NDP seems to be the primary reason as for why the government ignored the red flags.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba to consider the need to seek clarification on why the government did not act on fixing the Crocus Fund back in 2001. Signed by Michael Townsley, Rita Townsley, Mark Townsley and many, many others. Provincial Road 340 Mrs. Leanne Rowat (Minnedosa): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba.

These are the reasons for this petition: The hard surfacing of the unpaved portion of PR 340, south of Canadian Forces Base Shilo towards Wawanesa, would address the last few neglected kilometres of this road and increase the safety of motorists who travel on it. Heavy traffic has increas ed on PR 340 due to the many large farms involved in potato and hog production, agriculture related businesses, Hutterite colonies and the Maple Leaf plant in Brandon. A fully paved road would support local business and lessen the damage to vehicles.

Annual average traffic volumes on PR 340 are increasing with commuter traffic from Wawanesa, Stockton, Nesbitt and surrounding farms to Shilo and Brandon. The arrival of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry in 2004 and increased employment at the Maple Leaf plant in Brandon means there has been an influx of new families in the area. Improving the rural highway infrastructure in this location will be an additional reason for these families and others to settle and stay in the area. Access to the Criddle-Vane Homestead Provincial Park would be greatly enhanced.

PR 340 is an alternate route for many motorists travelling to Brandon coming off of PTH 2 east and to Winnipeg via the Tran s Canada Highway No. 1. This upgrade would also ease the traffic congestion on PTH 10. All Manitobans deserve a safe and well- maintained rural highway infrastructure. We petition the Manitoba Legislative Assembly as follows: To request the Minister of Transportation and Government Services (Mr. Lemieux) to consider hard surfacing of the unpaved portion of PR 340, south of Canadian Forces Base Shilo, towards Wawanesa.

This petition is signed by Ben Wester, Dylan Emmett, Harry Walsh and many, many others. INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 6–The Dental Association Amendment Act Hon. Tim Sale (Minister of Health): I move, seconded by the honourable Minister of Healthy Living (Ms. Oswald), that Bill 6, The Dental Association Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l' Association dentaire, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Sale: This act will amend the existing act in order to clarify the responsibilities of dental hygienists in regard to supervision and professional practice. Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Bill 5–The Dental Hygienists Act Hon. Tim Sale (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Minister of Healthy Living (Ms. Oswald), that Bill 5, The Dental Hygienists Act;

Loi sur les hygiénistes dentaires, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Sale: Mr. Speaker, this act will create the College of Dental Hygienists, and it will allow dental hygienists to practise under their own college for supervision and for professional standards. We are

November 1, 2005 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 81 optimistic that this will lead to more dental hygienists' services being available in a variety of settings but, particularly, long-term care and northern communities. * (13:40) Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Introduction of Guests Mr. Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery where we have with us from Milltown Academy eight Grades 8 and 12 students under the direction of Mr. Ron Kleinsasser.

This group is located in th e constituency of the honourable Member for Morris (Mrs. Taillieu). On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you here today. ORAL QUESTIONS Flu Pandemic Government Strategy Mr. Stuart Murray (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, under this NDP government, Manitobans health care system is in a crisis. Doctors are leavi ng the province. Emergency rooms are closing. Wait-lists are skyrocketing. Our health care system under this NDP government is strained to the limit. Mr.

Speaker, we know that other provinces have faced public health emerge ncies, and we know that there is a possibility of a public health pandemic in Manitoba. I ask this Premier what steps has he taken to ensure that Manitobans will be safe in the event of a pandemic flu outbreak. Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr. Speaker, the public health legislation was passed a few years ago that, of course, gave us authority to deal with many of the issues of public health and safety. It was considered at the time to be the first in Canada and the most comprehensive.

We have three binders, not three separate binders, but three binders that have been prepared by our public Chief Medical Officer and by the veterinary people. We have hired and provided for the first chief vet of any province in Canada because we know the unfortunate crossover of animal disease to human disease based on the SARS research and the avian flu information out of China. Just on Thursday, this document, a

summary of the document that was available in binder form in much larger basis was made available on the Internet for the public. It is on our Web site but that does not mean to say that daily the people that are responsible for public safety and health are not working on fine-tuning the procedures, fine-tuning the policies, fine-tuning the advice to government. When we get advice about certain legislative issues that we have to change we will change it. For example, we are now working on, and I will be sharing this with the House, if people are quarantined, Mr.

Speaker, right now they have the ability to quarantine an individual but there is no protection, for example, for their job. Most employers would not cause any problems. So there is a lot of detailed work continuing on public health and safety here in Manitoba. Mr. Murray: Mr. Speaker, the reason that this issue is being raised today is because, unfortunately, under this Premier and this NDP government, they cannot even handle the health care system we have in Manitoba let alone what might be facing. That is why this is a very serious issue.

I would ask the Premier, it is very interesting that he makes comments about three stacks of binders and all sorts of binders on the Internet. We know that they rushed to put a document out on October 26. This is a very serious issue, and I am not asking about a public relations exercise. I am simply saying because this Premier is incapable of handling the current health care system, in the event of a crisis, what assurance, what plan does he have in place to ensure that Manitobans will be safe in the event of a pandemic flu that hit our province. * (13:45) Mr. Doer: Well, Mr.

Speaker, this was put on the I n t e r n e t l a s t w e e k b u t i t w a s n o t r u s h e d t o d o i t yesterday when the H5 ca se took place. Secondly, under legislation that we brought in there are protocols in place, I understand, with regional health authorities across the province. We are now meeting again with the municipalities on this issue. We were the first province in Canada to hire a chief vet, the first province in Canada to hire a chief vet in recognition of the fact that in some parts of the world so far there has been crossover between animal health issues and human health issues.

We think we have very good public health people. Dr. Kettner has been working with Ottawa, with Dr. Butler and all the other provinces. Even

82 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 1, 2005 with no incidents of SARS, a couple of years ago we created a containment unit and a crisis exercise that took place. Obviously the experts have learned from that experience, and we continue to work with the experts in the field. I think we have very good experts here in Manitoba with Dr. Kettner and Dr. Lees, and I have a lot of faith in their abilities, capacities to work, and recommendations they would make to government. Mr. Murray: Mr. Speaker, it is not those officials that we are worried about.

It is this Premier that we are worried about because what we are hearing today is that if there is a pandemic flu breakout everybody is going to get a binder. Well, this is a very serious issue. We all understand that across this province we are short doctors and nurses. Mr. Speaker, we are seei ng under this Premier's watch with health care, unprecedented numbers of people having to take the highways to get health care. Manitobans deserve assurance from the First Minister of this province that they will be safe in the event of a flu pandemic.

I simply ask the Premier what is his plan to ensure that Manitobans will be safe in the event of a pandemic flu outbreak. Mr. Doer: First of all, Mr. Speaker, we have the largest inoculation program on a per capita basis (

a) in the history of Manitoba, and (

b) on a per capita basis, probably one of the largest in Canada. Secondly, we have 602 000 vials of Tamiflu vaccine in place here in Manitoba. Thirdly, we are the first province in Canada to establish a chief vet in the province. Fourthly, we think we have one of the finest chief medi cal officers in Canada with Dr. Kettner. Fifthly, we, of course, reviewed some of these plans on the meeting that took place with the member opposite. I think he was the only other leader that attended that meeting on August 3. We will be having other meetings that will take place.

We have 242 more doctors than we had a few years ago. We have more nurses than we had a few years ago. We have more diagnostic equipment than we had a few years ago, Mr. Speaker. Obviously, all of this work is a work in progress. It is always a work in progress. To say that 602 000 vials of Tamiflu is just binders, I think is really providing disservice to the great medical experts we have in this province. Mr. Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, with a new question. Election Financing Union and Corporate Contributions Mr. Stuart Murray (Leader of the Official Opposition): Thank you, Mr.

Speaker, on a new question. Here in Manitoba The Elections Finances Act bans unions and corporations from making donations to political parties. A corporation cannot simply tap its employees on the shoulder and request donations to be collected by the corporation and then simply turned over to a political party. Mr. Speaker, the reason that cannot be done is because that is against the law, yet the unions have been doing just that. Unions have been collecting money from an individual worker and then sending it over to the NDP. Mr.

Speaker, why has this Premier, the leader of the NDP, allowed his own party to break the law? Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr. Speaker, we are the only political party that has not been charged and convicted under the elections law in the last number of years, point No. 1. Point No. 2, the Chief Electoral Officer a year ago raised is sues of bundling. We said we would– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Doer: W e s a i d t h a t t h a t w i l l n o t b e a l l o w e d . I am bringing in legislation in the next couple of weeks to disallow that. Mr.

Speaker, I am also bringing in legislation to disallow major loans like $100,000 from a corporation or an individual corporate entity to a political party. * (13:50) The Chief Electoral Officer has already dealt with this issue, and I have already stated that I will bring in a law to clarify that that is not allowed in Manitoba. Mr. Murray: Mr. Speaker, it is very clear that there is something different between changing legislation and breaking the law. That is what has been going on. Yesterday, when we posed these questions, we understand the Premier refused to answer them.

We asked the question specifically on why the NDP has failed to report and account for all in-kind donations. Let me repeat it is against the law for unions to make monetary contributions to political parties. For the record, an d I would like to quote,

November 1, 2005 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 83 back in the 1999 election campaign, what this Premier did he put out a press release, and in the press release he said, "The limiting of political party contributions solely to individuals, for example, will help curb the perception of some that influence can be exerted through our current political donations system." Your words, Mr. Premier. That is what you said. Mr. Speaker, this Premier and his party found a way to subvert their own law. Mr.

Speaker, I will ask the Premier if he will come clean today and admit that his party, under his leadership, broke the law. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Doer: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Last year in committee, the Chief Electoral Officer was at committee, it is all in Hansard. There were issues raised about the practice. The Chief Electoral Officer stated that he investigated the practice and ruled that it was not quote, "illegal under the act." Having said that– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Doer: I said at the time that I would review it.

I also said, and members opposite know because during the technical committees that all parties are participating with, we stated that we would change the law. I think the practice of bundling and the practice of loans, in my view, is not consistent with the spirit of the act, and the practice of loans of $100,000 from an individual that is well over the $3,000 limit and the other practices of bundling are going to be prohibited in law consistent with the spirit that we will be free of fear and favour.

I would ask the members opposite are they going to make it legal again for unions and corporations to donate to political parties. Yes or no? Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. I need to be able to hear the questions and the answers. Mr. Murray: This Premier tries to muddy the waters by saying bundling is one thing and then somehow he is going to change legislation so that what took place in the last election cannot happen in the sense that an individual can give money that is authorized by Elections Manitoba. Mr. Speaker, that is legal. What he is doing is illegal. Mr.

Speaker, I would like to quote back to the Premier from his own press release in 1999 where he said to the Manitoba public, "It may mean," and I hope that they listen– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Murray: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This Premier said in 1999, during the election campaign, "It may mean less money available for the main parties, but it is a good price to pay, I believe, to help reduce the widespread cynicism and disgust that we hear every day from Manitobans." * (13:55) I know that the well-trained seals applaud on the applaud sign, but I would ask them to listen to the rest of what I am going to say that are this Premier's words. He went on to say it is time that changes were made to ensure that money and influence do not speak louder than the voices of everyday Manitobans. That is what this Premier said.

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Murray: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just read back the words that the Premier said in 1999, and I would ask this Premier, who is the self-described ethics commissioner of his party, will he finally live up to his own words and direct that his party repays the monies it received in breach of his own law. Mr. Doer: The Chief Electoral Officer has already dealt with the issue of union or corporate donations. I am proud of the fact, Mr.

Speaker, that the perception of authority dealing with government decisions has been removed with banning union and corporate donations. I want to say the underwriters from the sale of MTS– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Doer: The cost to rural telephone subscribers, 68 percent; CIBC, Wood Gundy, $5,000 to the Tories; Midland Walwyn Incorporation, $69,000; Nesbitt Burns, $39,000; Wellington West, $41,800; Bieber Securities, $12,000; a total of $168,000 for the theft of the Manitoba Telephone System. We are glad we banned that, Mr. Speaker.

84 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 1, 2005 Floodway Expansion Labour Agreement Mr. Jack Penner (Emerson): Events of the last year highlight the importance of ensuring that all publicly funded projects be carried out in a fair and open and transparent way with no ability to flow taxpayers' dollars to political friends. Will the minister responsible for the floodway expansion admit that his forced unionization labour agreement is simply about directing funds from Manitoba taxpayers' pockets to the Manitoba union bosses? Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister of Water Stewardship): Mr.

Speaker, I cannot tell you how glad I am to be able to answer in this House a question about the floodway expansion and indicate that, thanks to this government working co- operatively with the federal government, it is now under construction. It is going to protect 450 000 Manitobans, and I can assure members opposite and particularly this member that the only funnelling that is going to take place is the funnelling of the water around the city of Winnipeg in a 1-in-700-year flood. Mr.

Penner: The NDP forced project management agreement of the floodway expansion is a deliberate systemic scheme to divert millions of taxpayers' dollars to their union friends. Why is the minister so intent on funnelling millions of dollars from forced unionization contributions into the pockets of the NDP's friends, the labour union bosses? * (14:00) Mr. Ashton: Mr. Speaker, I think in the previous session of the Legislature they asked more questions on this issue than any issue including agriculture.

I do want to put on the record that, despite all the doom and gloom from members opposite, we are now seeing not only the construction of the channel itself but we have seen many Manitoba companies, both unionized and non-unionized, bid on contracts. In fact, we have already tendered a number of significant contracts. The floodway expansion is underway despite the efforts of the members opposite and because this is a government that is committed to protecting 460 000 Manitobans. Crocus Investment Fund Public Inquiry Mr. Gerald Hawranik (Lac du Bonnet): Mr.

Speaker, the Doer gover nment did everything possible to ignore all the red flags at Crocus. They did everything possible to distance themselves from all of the internal and external warnings. The Crocus scandal and cover-up go to the highest levels of this NDP government. What is the Premier afraid of? If he has nothing to hide he would call an independent public inquiry. I ask the Minister of Finance to demand that the Premier (Mr. Doer) call an independent public inquiry. Hon. Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): Mr.

Speaker, when we brought forward a new Auditor General's Act in 2001, we put a specific clause in that legislation that allows the Auditor to go into, and I quote, "A business entity or organization that is issued a share, debt obligation, or other security if a person is eligible for a tax credit under our Manitoba law in respective ownership or acquisition of this security." This is the broadest scope of any Auditor General's legislation in the country, and it gave our Auditor General all the powe r s h e n e e d e d t o f u l l y investigate the matters under review at the Crocus Fund.

That is why we do not need an inquiry. It has been done, 245 pages. Mr. Hawranik: Mr. Speaker, former NDP minister, MaryAnn Mihychuk admitted that labour-sponsored funds were a regular and a consistent topic at the ministerial level. She also admitted that department officials had raised flags and issues of concern. She said she is prepared to testify under oath at an independent public inquiry. The Prime Minister called for an independent public inquiry into the federal sponsorship scandal because he had nothing to hide. Why will this Premier not call an independent public inquiry into Crocus?

Is it because, in fact, he has something to hide? Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): I think this is the seventh call for a public inquiry from members opposite in the last coupl e of years. The Auditor General reported twice to this Legislature on the Crocus Fund, once in 1998 he reported a study of investment disclosure practices. He stated that information on investment is readily available to the public and is similar to what a mutual fund reports dealing with Crocus and ENSIS.

Subsequent to that the Minister of Finance passed very, very extensive legislation allowing the Auditor General to go into any company that has dealings with the provincial government, any private company including Crocus. We backed that up with a letter last February, Mr. Speaker, so the Auditor

November 1, 2005 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 85 General can go into Isobord and deal with the $7 million loss the Tories had and the $30 million, $7 million loss to Crocus and the $30 million loss to the government. They can go into Winnport and deal with the $7 million loss to Crocus and the $6 million loss to taxpayers. It can go into Westsun. It can go into CalWest. It can go into the arena deal. It has the authority to go into private companies. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. The honourable Official Opposition House Leader, on a point of order. Point of Order Mr.

Leonard Derkach (Official Opposition House Leader): Yes, Mr. Speaker, on a point of order. I heard very specifically that the critic for the Department of Finance had asked the question to the Minister of Finance. That does not give the Premier latitude. Mr. Speaker: Order. On the point of order raised by the honourable Official Opposition House Leader, my

interpretation, and if my hearing is correct, the first question, yes, was directed to the Minister of Finance. The second question, the last two sentences were "Is it because you have something to hide that you are not calling an inquiry?" and that was directed directly to the Premier of the province, who is the First Minister in this House. I have to rule, and I will check Hansard after Question Period. That is my

interpretation of what I heard and I only can go on what the members ask. I have to rule that the member does not have a point of order because the question was directed to the First Minister, in my

interpretation. Viewpoints Research Inc. Government Contracts Mr. Glen Cummings (Ste. Rose): Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister responsible for Workers Compensation Board. We have had recently come to our attention that a half-a-million-dollar contract has been awarded by Workers Compensation Board to Viewpoints Research, a company with direct connections to the office of the Premier (Mr. Doer). Viewpoints did not clearly win this contract and yet an unprecedented five-year contract was awarded.

I would like to know, and the public would like to know what is the criteria that was used to award this contract or was it done on a political basis. Hon. Nancy Allan (Min ister of Labour and Immigration): Mr. Speaker, the WCB has a board of directors that has a procurement policy, and the tendering and the awarding of any contracts to outside agencies are awarde d in concert with that procurement policy. Mr. Cummings: Mr. Speaker, it is quite curious the WCB would be doing polling to begin with. Will the government table the questions that were included in that poll conducted by Viewpoints?

The public needs to be satisfied that Ginny Devine's company was not polling on behalf of her husband. Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr. Speaker, the members opposite have copies of my conflict-of- interest disclosure forms that go back to 1999, in terms of Workers Compensation, prior to my election as Premier. It is fully disclosed including the contract of 12 months ago. I am the first Premier that has had a spouse who has an independent career, Mr. Speaker, and I would expect certain behaviour from members opposite, certain matters of dignity, that we extend to other spouses.

There is a law, it is in place and I would expect that the kind of dignity of this office be maintained because there are laws and rules and it goes both ways. Mr. Cummings: Mr. Speaker, it is very clear that those of us who hold elected office are often held to a higher standard. This Premier has said that he is a self-appointed ethics commissioner of this government. We would like to know if the Premier believes that this awarding of this contract meets the sniff test. Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, Mr.

Norrie has been appointed unanimously by all members of this Chamber to be the ethics commissioner, and I would take Mr. Norrie's word ove r the guttersnipes of the members opposite. Viewpoints Research Inc. Government Contracts Mr. Leonard Derkach (Russell): Mr. Speaker, just a few minutes ago the Premier stood in his place and read a list of contributions that were made to the Conservative party from corporations, and he took great umbrage at the fact that this was happening. Equally, this is a repugnant situation. * (14:10)

86 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 1, 2005 Mr. Speaker, the Premier says there is no conflict when workers are being tapped on the shoulder and told to contribute to the NDP. The Premier says there is no conflict when his wife gets a contract with government agencies. He is the self- appointed ethics commissioner. He has said that. He said that he is the self-appointed commissioner for the NDP, but he is also the Premier of this province. Does he, as Premier, think that it is appropriate for someone as close as his spouse to be receiving public funds from government contracts, Mr. Speaker? Hon.

Nancy Allan (Min ister of Labour and Immigration): The WCB is an arm's-length agency with a tripartite board re presenting employers, the public interest and employees, Mr. Speaker. They have a procurement policy and any tendering of contracts is awarded in regard to that public policy that is set by the board of directors. Mr. Derkach: Mr. Speaker, the Premier stood in his place and said that Mr. Norrie is the ethics commissioner. In fact, he is the conflict of interest commissioner. Mr. Speaker, my second question has to do with core values and those are the core values of the Premier of this province.

It is a question about perception. Does the Premier think it is appropriate for his wife to be securing contracts from agencies in government, knowing full well that the perceptions of her relationship to the Premier may be influencing the awarding of these contracts? Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Well, Mr. Speaker, my wife and my spouse is not my chattel. She is an independent individual. I am the first Premier to have a spouse, as I understand it, that has her own business career.

There might be other persons that might occupy this office that might have a spouse that has an independent business career, and I would hope that all individuals– Some Honourable members: Oh, oh Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Doer: I would hope that all individuals, and we know that all individuals, must comply fully to the conflict-of-interest legislation. This contract to Workers Compensation was disclosed in 1999 when members opposite, some of them were in Cabinet.

I daresay that, because it is an arm's-length agency of government, they had no involvement in it, and it was disclosed well over a year ago in terms of the requirements of the law. It was also reviewed with the conflict of interest commissioner and, as I say, Mr. Speaker, the law is the law, and I follow it. Mr. Derkach: Well, Mr. Speaker, if this were not happening repeatedly, one might be forgiving. But we have just received information that, indeed, another contract has been discovered, and I would like to table the letter that was received through Freedom of Information for the House. Mr.

Speaker, once again, we learn that MPI has awarded a contract that is worth almost $100,000 to the Premier's wife. This is on top of the $500,000 from Workers Compensation and on top of $35,000 from the Manitoba Liquor Control Commission. I want to ask the Premier if he thinks that this is an appropriate way to do business in this province, Mr. Speaker. Does this meet his sniff test? Mr. Doer: You know, just learned, Mr. Speaker, all contracts with any government entity should be disclosed at the earliest point of knowledge in the conflict-of-interest guidelines or forms that are signed.

This was signed a couple of years ago. I do not even believe, to the best of my knowledge, it even applies today in terms of a current contract. I will double-check that because I just filled in my conflict-of-interest guidelines for this session, and I did not file that. I do not believe it applies in this session of the Legislature. Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder Follow-up Treatment for Adults Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr.

Speaker, compared to their peers, youth leaving the care of child welfare agencies are being consigned to a cycle of persistent poverty, are more dependent on adult social assistance and too many end up in the mental health or criminal justice systems. Consistently I hear that the government's own child welfare system is worsening crime in Manitoba because too many children who have been in care are being thrown inadequately prepared onto the streets.

My question to the minister responsible for our child welfare system: Why is it that too many children, particularly those with significant mental health issues like fetal alcohol spectrum disorders, are being thrown at age 18 onto the streets without any sort of transition approach or support network being provided? Hon. Christine Melnick (Minister of Family Services and Housing): Well, Mr. Speaker, we have

November 1, 2005 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 87 done a lot of work around FASD. There is a lot more to do. We are working with our non-profit organizations as well as with the various mental health associations throughout this province to deal with the multiple issues that we know youth are facing. We have also, I think, for the first time in the history of the province, taken a lot of action on the prevention of FAS or FASD. It is 100 percent preventable, and we have also worked, I have worked with my colleagues in Cabinet as we have rolled out to the Fetal Alcohol Family Association of Manitoba.

We have increased their budget by over 50 percent. We have expanded the STOP FAS program, which is a program of visitation for women who may be using alcohol during pregnancy and, of course, through Healthy Baby. Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, there is abundant evidence to attest to the problem of an inadequate transition at age 18 as this report I tabled shows. The minister is trying to defend the indefensible. It is indefensible that her own programs are now one of the root causes of crime in this province.

Children who have been in her child welfare system are being victimized and criminalized because her approach is inadequate. I ask the minister responsible for child welfare in Manitoba why her own programs are being run in a way that contributes to crime rather than preventing it. Ms. Melnick: Well, I have to question the appropriateness of completely negating all the efforts of the non-profit organizations and the incredible medical people in our province who are working with us around this chal lenge of FAS-FASD on the prevention side as well as on the individuals who are currently suffering with that.

We have a deputy minister's committee. We will be receiving recommendations on that, but I really must question the judgment of the member from River Heights who is completely negating all the efforts that have been started in this province. Crocus Investment Fund Public Inquiry Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Mr. Speaker, it is very clear to all Manitobans, if not, and I emphasize this, that there needs to be an independent public inquiry into the Crocus Fund. Thirty-three thousand Manitobans have lost in excess of $60 million.

The primary reason for that is because of that special relationship this Premier and this government have with the union movement. I would suggest to you that there is a very strong relationship. We see them in bed in many situations together. We see them breaking the intent of the election laws of our province. We have seen many things that clearly establish that this government has a bias that is towards the unions which is to the detriment of our province. I am asking the Premier today to acknowledge the need for an independent inquiry of the whole Crocus fiasco which he is responsible for. Hon.

Gary Doer (Premier): I outlined a number of co-investments made by the provincial government with Crocus that resulted in major losses to the taxpayers and to the Crocus shareholders. I mentioned one of the so-called dogs, the three dogs that were co-investments between the provincial government in '96 and '97 and the losses that ultimately and regrettably accrued to both the shareholders and to memb ers of the taxpayers. I would point out, Mr. Speaker, that one of those entities was Isobord, and I mentioned that the provincial government lost close to $30 million on Isobord. Mr.

Speaker, the Crocus shareholders lost $7 million under the former Cabinet minister who is sitting in front of you. The federal government lost $12 million. The Auditor General in Manitoba has complete authority to investigate all those private and public transactions. * (14:20) Crystal Meth Comprehensive Government Strategy Ms. Bonnie Korzeniowski (St. James): Mr. Speaker, Manitoba Healthy Living and Manitoba Justice announced today a comprehensive Manitoba Meth Strategy to restrict supply and reduce demand for crystal meth in Manitoba.

Could the Minister of Healthy Living elaborate on how this strategy will prevent the widespread use of this destructive use in Manitoba? Hon. Theresa Oswald (Minister of Healthy Living): Mr. Speaker, the comprehensive meth strategy announced today does have a two-pronged approach to restrict the supply and, perhaps even more importantly, reduce the demand of crystal meth in Manitoba. Our strategy has a strong prevention focus.

Joining with us today is the Province of Saskatchewan in restricting the sale of single-source pseudoephedrine products, unfortunately, the preferred ingredient for meth cookers here in Manitoba. They are going to be available only in

88 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 1, 2005 pharmacies behind the counter, and quantities for purchase will be limited to 3600 milligrams. We are also increasing our investment to mental health and addictions programs here in Manitoba. We know from our research that users of crystal meth are indeed those afflicted– Mr. Speaker: Order. Viewpoints Research Inc. Government Contracts Mr. Glen Cummings (Ste. Rose): Mr. Speaker, the Premier (Mr. Doer) has taken umbrage at the questions that we have just been asking regarding Viewpoints Research.

I wonder if he has any other information about other contracts by Viewpoints Research with other agencies or departments of government. Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Energy, Science and Technology): Mr. Speaker, I have had some occasion during my practice as a lawyer to deal with issues of conflict of interest. I think it is very clear that we have legislation in this Chamber that all members must adhere to that requires disclosure of any conflicts or potential conflict, and, secondly, offers that forum to prov ide public knowledge and information with respect to these kinds of issues. Mr.

Speaker, in the modern world where a man and a woman have opportunities to both work, conflict of interest affo rds the opport unity for the public to know that an individual can carry on a job and still be married. That is very embedded within our own legislation and is reflected in the forums that we provide. All members must provide it. Mr. Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Diwali Mr. Stuart Murray (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to inform the House that today is Diwali Day, which celebrates the Hindu Festival of Lights.

This last weekend I had the privilege to attend, along with the member from Radisson, the ICHA, the Indo-Canadian Heritage Association. Diwali honours the Hindu Goddess Laksmi, the goddess of fortune, good luck, riches and generosity. According to the Hindu faith she will visit every home during the festival. The festival commemorates many events that hold historical significance in the Hindu faith. For example, on the day preceding Diwali, Lord Krishna killed the demon King Narakaasur and rescued 16 000 people from his captivity. For this reason, Diwali celebrates the triumph of good over evil.

Diwali also celebrates the return of Lord Rama from exile. It is believed that his people lit up the way home for him with oil lamps, hence the significance of lights. During the festival, Hindu families will exchange gifts like candles and celebrate with fireworks. I would like to wish Manitobans, Indian and Sikh communities, health, prosperity and good fortune as they celebrate Diwali, the Hindu Festival of Lights. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Prendergast Centre Mr. Bidhu Jha (Radisson): Mr. Speaker, I would like to bring attention to the House to the volunteers of Prendergast Centre in Windsor Park.

As a result of their hard work and commitment of our government, construction is underway on a new roof for the centre. The new roof will keep winter heating costs down and enhance the safety and appearance of the building. Funding of the new roof was provided by the Province through its Community Places grant. Prendergast Centre is a public school that houses numerous community programs, such as day care used by 300 children, Anglophone and Francophone seniors' groups and a Louis Riel School Division alternative schooling program.

Founded in 1983, Prendergast Centre is funded through fundraising efforts and user groups with some assistance from the Province. There are always a lot of activities going on at Prendergast Centre. I had the privilege of attending a meeting at the centre a fe w weeks ago and was very impressed at the large number and variety of people using the facility together. There were bingo games being played and kids playing on the grounds. Last Wednesday, I had a great time at their soup and bunwich event, which I always attend and am always very well fed and treated to good conversation with the seniors.

Prendergast Centre would not operate so smoothly without community-minded people like Arleen Stege, Ray Hens on, Dana Gregoire and Germaine Montsion, who work very hard to get things done at the centre. I encourage the people of Windsor Park to check out what is going on at the Prendergast Centre and get involved in the recreational activities that are always taking place. The centre is one of many great things about

November 1, 2005 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 89 Windsor Park, a model community of good neighbours and good people. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Government Ethics Mr. Cliff Cullen (Turtle Mountain): Mr. Speaker, while the federal sponsorship scandal is taking centre stage in Ottawa, Manitobans clearly have more than their fair share of scandals to be concerned with. Despite this Premier's assertion that he acts as the ethics commissioner for this NDP government it is clear to this side of the House and to all Manitobans that taxpayer dollars are being used in questionable ventures by this government.

Last month we learned that the Workers Compensation Board had awarded a $500,000 five- year contract to Viewpoints Research Ltd., a polling company with extremely close ties to this Premier (Mr. Doer) and this NDP government. Last month, we also learned that the Manitoba Liquor Control Commission had awarded three contracts, a total commitment of more than $30,000 to Viewpoints Research Ltd., and today we learn that Manitoba Public Insurance paid nearly $100,000 to that same polling company, Viewpoints Research Ltd., co- owned by the Premier's wife.

We have also seen the NDP force non-unionized companies to pay union dues through the project labour agreement for the floodway expansion. This is obviously a deliberate scheme to divert millions of taxpayer dollars to the NDP's union friends. Under this NDP government, this self-proclaimed ethics commissioner, we have also seen more than 33 000 Manitobans lose more than $60 million in the Crocus Fund scandal. Now we see that unions have been collecting money from individual workers and sending it to the NDP party in direct contravention to the Manitoba Elections Finances Act. Indeed, Mr.

Speaker, Manitobans do have their own scandals to be concerned about. Thank you. Aboriginal Youth Awards Dinner Mr. Gerard Jennissen (Flin Flon): Mr. Speaker, I rise to recognize the achievements of a remarkable young man from Lac Brochet named Jack Denechezhe. Jack was one of 14 young Aboriginal Manitobans who were recognized at the 12th annual Aboriginal Youth Awards dinner on October 21. This was Mr. Denechezhe's second award. In 2003, Mr. Denechezhe was awarded the Dene Go Theh Achievement Award. This year, he was given the award for Employment in a Traditional Field.

Jack Denechezhe, a 23-year-old from Lac Brochet, was born in Winnipeg but has lived in Lac Brochet all of his life. He speaks Dene and has lived a traditional lifestyle from birth. As the oldest of his siblings, Jack has been a caregiver for and a role model to the rest of his family. * (14:30) Mr. Denechezhe was nominated for the award by Hotilnene Kgotine Denegothe Inc. for work that he has done as a youth camp leader and a community teacher for the three years. Mr. Denechezhe is a strong role model for th e youth in his community.

For the last three years, he has taught young people in his community how to survive on the land. In 2002, Mr. Denechezhe received six weeks of training for a Rediscovery Youth Camp in Vancouver, B.C. It was there that he learned canoe safety and wilderness first aid. Upon completion of this program, he returned to Lac Brochet to work with local youth. Mr. Denechezhe enjoys contemporary music and hopes to pursue a career as a performer. Mr. Speaker, Thursday, October 20, 2005, marked the 12th annual Aboriginal Youth Awards dinner.

The dinner gives the Aboriginal community an opportunity to combat harmful stereotypes by showcasing the best and brightest of Manitoba's Aboriginal youth. The awards were established in 1994, and thanks to corporate sponsorship the number of awards presented has doubled since then. Fourteen awards are now presented in a wide array of areas from athletics to academics to entrepreneurship. The awards have engendered much public interest, and attendance has doubled in the last few years.

On behalf of the Legislature, I would like to thank Darlene Daniels, the awards committee chairwoman, the corporate sponsors of the awards dinner and the Aboriginal teenaged and young adult award recipients. Mr. Speaker: Order. Leave? Does the honourable member have leave? [Agreed] Mr. Jennissen: The young award winners are an inspiration not only to First Nations people but also to all Manitobans and all Canadians. Thank you. Electoral Reform Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Mr. Speaker, across Canada on the news networks we are hearing from Mr.

Jack Layton talking about what he believes is very important ethics and accountability in

90 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 1, 2005 government, and he is making reference to, of course, Mr. Broadbent's proposal that indicates that there is a seven-point et hics package which is critically important in today's reality. The purpose for me standing today is to make the suggestion that the NDP MLAs listen to what their federal leader and former leader are saying in Ottawa, Mr. Speaker. If you look over their seven points, there are two of them, points two and four, that I really want to emphasize. Point four is: Our present system does not reflect Canadian voters' intentions.

Fairness means we need a mixed electoral system that combines individual constituency-based MPs with proportional representation. That is something which the NDP on the federal level have actually been advocating for many years. In the province of Manito ba, where they actually have the opportunity to make a difference, Mr. Speaker, they are doing nothing. In fact, the legislative changes that they have made to date have done more to cripple democracy in our province than to put it ahead. I challenge the Premier (Mr.

Doer) of this province to do what is right, to listen to what Ed Broadbent and Jack Layton are saying, to listen to what the NDP membership, I believe, wants to see with this government, and that is to bring genuine reform. The other point is point two: Election dates should be fixed. Well, Mr. Speaker, I think that we should be moving toward fixed election dates. I would suggest to the Premier that the next election should be in October of 2007.

The Premier has an opportunity, a real opportunity, if he wants legitimate electoral reform, he can le ad his party across Canada by demonstrating that it is not just the NDP out of power that want to see change, but that even a premier that is NDP would be in favour. ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS ADJOURNED DEBATE (Third Day of Debate) Mr. Speaker: Resume debate on the proposed motion of the honourable Member for The Maples (Mr. Aglugub), that the following address be presented to His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor, and the proposed motion of the honourable Leader of the Official Opposition (M r.

Murray) in amendment thereto, standing in the name of the honourable Member for Wellington (Mr. Santos), who has nine minutes remaining. Mr. Conrad Santos (Wellington): Mr. Speaker, I voluntarily give up my time so that more of the members of this House on both sides can speak on the precious opportunity to participate in the Throne debate. Mr. Ron Schuler (Springfield): Mr. Speaker, this Doer government is bankrupting Manitoba. This Premier (Mr. Doer) is a luxury Manitobans cannot afford. Six years and seven throne speeches later, and less hope, less vision, less excitement across the way.

As I sat and I watched, you actually would have thought that they were slowly, slowly being read to sleep. If there is one silver lining to this speech, it is that we know that this speech will only be a little better than the even worse speech next year, because we have noticed every year the speeches get worse and worse, less hope, less enthusiasm, less of a plan, less of a vision, Mr. Speaker. I want to talk today about the fact that this Doer government is bankrupting Manitoba, Mr. Speaker. We find out that this Premier has become a luxury that Manitobans cannot afford.

I want to talk about inheritance because really that is what this Legislature is all about. What will the proceeding generations inherit from us, this current group of 57 legislators? Mr. Speaker, I grew up in an immigrant family. My family came here after having lost everything in World War II, and it was said to us on almost a daily basis, they would say to us, "Kids, get an education; get a university degree; get a good job." We want to push the next generation that one or two rungs up the ladder. Then we expect of you to do the same to the next generation.

You should always be moving the next generation upward. It is called the inheritance, and it is not just about inheriting money. It is about inheriting a philosophy that we want to improve every generation that follows. It is about the future. What I have noticed over the years here in this Legislature, in this province, I have learned some very hard lessons about what socialism really is. I have studied socialism. I studied socialist countries across the historical span of the last hundred-some years, but I have never actually seen it in action in its truest form.

What I fo und out from this Doer government, from a socialist government, is that

November 1, 2005 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 91 spending is all about the here and now. It has very little concern about tomorrow, the generations that follow. What we have seen is a time of clearly unprecedented federal transfers, the kind of federal transfers that the previous government would have been in heaven with, Mr. Speaker. They just would not have been able to know what to do with all the money. At a time when you have such unprecedented transfers of money to a government, we find that not just is that money being spent, but, more importantly, we are going into debt.

In government, as in personal lives, when you start getting into onerous debt financing, it is a cancer, a financial cancer on the system, on the family or, in this case, on a government. Mr. Conrad Santos, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair It is very unfortunate that we find that the provincial debt of this province is in and around $20.5 billion. Mr. Deputy Speaker, that is not million, that is $20.5 billion, and the only reason why we keep our credit rating at this current rate is because of low interest rates.

Alas, if you watch the reports coming out from the federal government, interest rates are going to continue to go up. They are increasing, and, as we add to our provincial debt, I understand that our interest payments right now are in and around $700,000. That is as much as a floodway every year that we take and, rather than we deciding as a Legislature where those monies should go, those monies automatically go outside of this province, go to other individuals, other organizations, other institutions. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, what will happen in time if this government, this Doer government, does not get a handle on its overexpenditures, on its driving up the public debt, the cancer of that debt will slowly start to eat at our ability to fund health care, a very important institution to Manitobans. It will impede our ability to finance education, whether it be K to Senior 4 or post-secondary education, something we hold very dear, something that we use to monitor how we do as a society.

If we do not get our expenditures under control, that $20.5 billion, and counting, and going up and increasing on a daily basis, we will impede our ability to finance social services, those who need the help the most. The cancer will affect all departments. Look at our highways. We know for a fact rather than moving forward on the highways and roads deficit, the infrastructure deficit, we are going backwards. It is in the billions of dollars. What that means, Mr. Speaker, is that if we are supposed to spend $300 million this year and we do not, that is added to the infrastructure deficit.

So, not just do we have a $20.5 billion debt on Manitoba, we have an increasing infrastructure debt, and who is going to be expected to pay for that someday? Mr. Speaker, the 57 of us sit here and make decisions for not just our children but for the grandchildren and for those to come. I look at the big public works projects that this government has on the agenda, and all of them are worthy, they are necessary, and it is not a bad thing that the government does public works projects where obviously private industry, it does not make any sense for them to be involved.

We applaud the government, that they are taking Duff Roblin's project and renovating it, clearly, a project, a vision set out by Duff Roblin. What we are seeing is a minor renovation, but we know that that is going to add money onto the debt. We realize that. We see a Hydro tower, th e Hydro tower which, from what we understand, is pa rt of an agreement. The price ticket seems to be escalating considerably. That will also add on to the deficit. We see a lot of other projects, all publicly funded, which will add to the deficit. All of them are worthy in their own, but, Mr.

Speaker, when the floodway is complete and the last shovel has been pulled out of the ground, I ask this Chamber how many jobs are going to then be created after Duff Roblin's ditch has been renovated. How many jobs will then have been created? Mr. Speaker, with the Hydro project, the new building, basically, we are going to move individuals from one building into another building.

There might be some jobs created, but not a lot of jobs are going to be created, and as we go through project by project by public works project, I ask you, after we have established this debt, what jobs are going to be created in Manitoba that are going to help to pay off that debt. This summer I happened to be in Aylmer, Ontario. In that region, in and around London, Ontario there is a new auto manufacturing plant going in. They were not quite sure of how many people were going to work there, anywhere from 2000 to 4000 people. In total they were thinking that 15 000 people were going to move into the area.

That is where real wealth is created. They will be manufacturing parts, buying the materials to manufacture the parts, and then those parts will be

92 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 1, 2005 sold and real wealth will be generated. We need those kinds of projects. Yes, we need a renovation of Duff Roblin's floodway. Yes, we need to live up to our obligations with Hydro, but where is the job creation component of this? In fact, Mr. Speaker, I read with great interest and saw the statistics of a report that came out that talked about job creation in Manitoba, and it is of great concern when we find out that, by and large, the bulk of the jobs being created in Manitoba right now are public-service jobs.

Not that we do not want public-service jobs created and not that they are not necessary; in fact, they mo re than likely are very necessary, but the question is where are the private- sector jobs. Where are the manufacturing jobs? We cannot just keep running up the debt. We cannot just be working on public works projects and employing Manitobans through government dollars without real jobs being created that are going to add money into the Treasury, because the day will come when we will have to start paying off the debt. Mr.

Speaker, there is another sign that causes myself as a young family parent here in Manitoba and that is there is a statistic out that we have one of the lowest paid work forces in Canada. That must cause concern even to a socialist government like the Doer government, because that is from where we get our tax dollars, and if we are losing our high paid tax dollars, those jobs, to other jurisdictions, then we have a problem.

Over the years I have been tracking labour statistics, and bear with me if I get involved in labour statistics here, but we have seen over the years, and I would quote some numbers for this House. In September of 1999, this is the labour force actual, 592 400. By August of 2005, the last numbers I have in my book, we have 620 400 individuals in the actual labour force. Considering the kind of public works dollars that are being spent, that is such a small increase in the labour force. We are finding out that, actually, the amount of people working, the numbers are not changing much either.

What we are seeing is a levelling off or a contracting of the economy. The numbers will fluctuate a little bit, but by and large the numbers are not accelerating, according to the kind of money that government is paying on large public works projects. You have to remember that it is people who are working who pay taxes, who fund the kinds of things that our government currently is trying to pay for. When you start looking at labour stats, and every time they come out there is a warning to the government, careful, the numbers do not look good, there seems to be some kind of a problem within our economy.

Yes, we have low unemployment rates, but we also have a stagnant unemployment force. We are not creating a lot more jobs; we are not creating a lot more people looking for jobs. It is all staying stagnant. At best it is levelling off and at worst we are seeing a contracting economy. That, Mr. Speaker, is very scary. So, when you start to combine all of these things, Mr. Speaker, we see the kind of great social institutions that, frankly, we all enjoy. I am the first one to admit I have used our health care system, had a broken ankle, I went and I had my health care.

But that will not be sustainable if we continue with the kind of highest taxes, low job creation, at best government jobs, at worst stagnant job creation, lowest paid workforce. That culminated with a deficit that is spiralling out of control. I am going to give another example to this House. We keep hearing about Conawapa, worthy project if we are, you know, in need of more electricity. Clearly, we want to sell more electricity to North America and have more electricity here for at home, but in 1997, '98, '99 and the first few years of this current government, the price of Conawapa was $5.4 billion.

In fact, it kept carrying on in the Doer government. I said to my colleagues if we wait another 30 years, at this rate we will get it for free because with inflation, actually, the price was coming down. Then for a while it went down to $5 billion. It was just a while ago the Free Press reported that all of a sudden Conawapa was $10 billion.

Now, clearly, a moving target and, frankly, Conawapa is probably going to be looking at anywhere around $5 to $10 billion. * (14:50) If we were to expend $10 billion on Conawapa, a project that at its time I am sure will be very much needed, we make no money off of the asset but have to expend the $10 billion right up front, and then we start making money on the asset. Mr. Speaker, a debt then of an extra $10 billion on the $20 billion, a $30- billion debt, makes me concerned, because remember Conawapa will not generate income until the asset is completely built.

That has to be a problem, and I know it is a problem for individuals. As I go from Gateway community club to the south side of the city, as I travel in other towns and cities from Steinbach to Brandon, as I talk to individuals in

November 1, 2005 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 93 the communities, and I lay out for them that the Doer government is bankrupting Manitoba, as I lay out for them the concerns that I have as one Manitoban who is trying to raise his family here in Manitoba, individuals will say to me, "You know what, that is clearly a problem." I believe that Manitobans are starting to catch onto that, after six years and seven throne speeches, nothing. There was not even excitement on that side of the House, and there is not excitement.

Once in a while the applause sign goes on and you hear all the backbenchers, "Oh!" and then they go back to sleep again and they wait for the next applause sign to come on. Mr. Speaker, we know that, at a time when you have unprecedented income, federal transfers from the federal government, we have unprecedented spending by this provincial government and unprecedented increase in th e provincial debt. All of those give a very, very bleak picture for the future because, with all the different statistics coming in, no matter how good this Prem ier (Mr.

Doer) spins and spins, he will not be able to put Humpty Dumpty back together again. Once this economy takes a hit, if we see, like we are seeing at the federal level, interest rates continue to increase, it will impede this socialist government's ability to pay back not just the deficit or the mortgage, but the interest that is going to be incurred because of the increase in this debt. Very concerning for this side of the House is the fact that there is no end in sight. There is not a time when, during the Throne Speech, the "D" word was mentioned.

Never once did this government talk about the fact that the deficit is ballooning completely out of control, and that is very worrisome for those individuals who live in Manitoba. Mr. Speaker, almost on all respects, we are the highest taxed in Manitoba, and if this Premier and this minister do not keep their spending in check, all the advantages that we have seen over the years will slowly be clawed away from us. We have not seen the unprecedented kind of increases in our services that we have seen lately under this NDP government.

And they still crow about it being the lowest Hydro and the lowest electrical rates in the country. At the rate they are going, at the rate that they are spending, they are putting that into jeopardy. That should be one little benefit of ours. Instead, they are putting that benefit into question. I believe we had an amazing opportunity when the federal government started to extend an increase in federal transfer payments to build a stronger province. We have a province rich in natural resources, rich in people. We have basically everything and anything that you could ever want.

I cannot understand why it is, in that climate, in a province where we have so much wealth, when Manitoba Hydro is far greater than Alberta's oil patch. We should be the electrical sheiks of the world. Instead, what we are seeing is they are bankrupting this province. I do not understand it, and I do not think it bodes well for this province. This was a disastrous Throne Speech, and I can only hope that the next one is better. But I place no hope into that.

I would call this government, when they bring down their budget, that they start dealing with this onerous mortgage, this onerous mortgage they are putting on our young children and denying our children a proper heritage as future citizens of this fine province. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, I rise to talk to the government's Throne Speech.

When I look at this Throne Speech, I am reminded of the Biblical proverb: "Where there is no vision, the people perish." One of the problems that we see with this Throne Speech is that the NDP no longer appear to have any real governing purpose, any sense of direction or vision of where they would like to lead the province. The Throne Speech was bankrupt of ideas, was supposed to be about the future, but what we got was a rehash of old news, old announcements, not much of a new vision there.

This list of past events and old announcements sort of looked as if the NDP wanted to lead us back into the past instead of taking us forward into the future. You know, perhaps that is what we might have expected from the NDP, to take us backwards. That is not what most people in Manitoba would like. What is particularly telling was that there was a Hydro re-announcement that was held in the morning apparently in an attempt to cover up the major deficiencies in the Throne Speech. A re- announcement, I say, because much of what was in that announcement had been announced earlier in September.

Normally, a government avoids any other major announcements on Throne Speech day because they do not want anything to detract from the Throne Speech itself. But here we have a government trying to bury the Throne Speech with a Hydro photo op, a very peculiar objective or plan for the government and another demonstration that they

94 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 1, 2005 did not have much substan ce in their Throne Speech and not much vision. When there is no vision, the people are going to be hurt and not benefit to the extent that they should. When you look at the lack of content and major shortcomings in areas of public safety, health care, the economy and the environment, it adds up to a very disappointing Throne Speech.

Safety as an issue was buried in the middle of this unimpressive Throne Speech, and given how this concern about safety has been front and centre recently in our province , because citizens are concerned about walking out on the streets of Winnipeg at night, and we have had an innocent bystander shot in the middle of gang warfare occurring in our streets, the Throne Speech should have led off with a major effort to address safety and security. As many have po inted out in recent years, governments which can no longer ensure the safety and security of their citizens start to lose moral legitimacy.

It is too bad to have to say this, but that, in fact, is what is happening with this NDP government. They are losing their moral legitimacy. What we got at the beginning of this Throne Speech was a history lesson on preparing for emergencies dating back to 2002, with only a vague glimpse into the future, quote, "New legislation will be introduced this session to enhance our capability to deal with emergencies." No description, no details, nothing more than that. Not very inspiring. So I remind the Premier (Mr.

Doer) and the NDP that, where you do not have a vision, you are not going to benefit the people, and people are going to be hurting. Indeed, that is exactly what we are seeing with the problems with crime. What the NDP have done is the same old thing for six years, and it has not worked because the problem with crime has got worse and not better. We need to have a much more focussed and changed effort.

As we have suggested, the department of public safety which can bring together the various activities to make sure that we have safe streets, that we have a Cabinet subcommittee working and dedicated to this particular area, bringing together people in the Health Department, Family Services and various ministers, a focussed effort to make sure that our citizens can be ensured that the streets and the communities will be safe. * (15:00) There was no mention at all of fetal alcohol spectrum disorders in the Throne Speech. Why? Nobody knows.

It is a rather important issue, but clearly the NDP are not very concerned about this. The NDP are not concerned or have no real plan in addressing the causes of crime. Statistic after statistic shows that fetal alcohol sp ectrum disorder children and youth are at much higher risk, because of their mental condition, of being victimized or criminalized. Yet we still do not have a screening program for all children to ensure that they are not slipping through the cracks. We still do not have an assessment program for youth who come into contact and are charged with criminal offences.

Increasingly, experts from across the country are saying you must assess young offenders for fetal alcohol spectrum disorders because it is very prevalen t and because they need to be treated differently. They have a problem, a mental health problem, a real physical problem. With children and young adults and adults with FASD, there are difficulties telling right from wrong, and they need a different kind of approach, otherwise the likelihood of them reoffending when they are put back on the streets is high.

So it is very important to treat and to prevent to improve our approach to the causes of crime, the root causes of crime, but we did not see that in this Throne Speech, and the NDP have let us down for this reason. On health care, we have gone from one crisis to another in the health care system under the NDP. The Throne Speech should have addressed health care in a much more meaningful fashion. It should have, as we have suggested, introduced a legal right to timely access to quality care and a mechanism to implement this. The government has tried to tinker around the edges.

Too many of their efforts in the past have failed, and we still have long waiting lists. We still do not have the kind of approach that we need to prevent health problems and keep people well that we need to have. There is not sufficient commitment to make a difference, and we see that day after day in what is happening in the health care system. Even in areas, as for example, the Victoria General Hospital, the government said they were going to make sure the maternity ward was there in an important role in the southern part of Winnipeg. Then earlier this year they closed the maternity ward.

They closed the maternity ward. One would have expected some vision for what the future is going to hold. We heard from the

November 1, 2005 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 95 Minister of Health (Mr. Sale) something about midwifery, but no, no, they seem to have forgotten this issue completely, deep-sixed it, as it were, and have no idea of really where they are going. I continue to hear problems. People getting maternity services, who are coming from south Winnipeg, who are being referred, for example, to St. Boniface and not being able to get exactly what they should be getting. Some of the major issues which were there when the NDP came to power, problems with early childhood tooth decay, are still there in a major way.

We do not have the focussed effort to prevent this preventable problem. Very little has been accomplished in six years. It has been six lost years under this government. What we are doing is spending a fortune, taking people down at age two, children down at age two, because they have failed to prevent the problem and have focussed solely on providing surgery for children aged two rather than preventing the problem as they should have done in the first place. Diabetes, and today is the start of Diabetes Month. Oh, we have an epidemic of diabetes in this province. That epidemic is continuing under this government.

There is no sign at all that they have even come to grips with this. There is no sign of a turnaround after six years that the incidence and the prevalence of diabetes keep going up and up and up. The measures that the government has taken in six years have been ineffective and yet, we do not have a plan in this Throne Speech. There is no focussed effort to make a difference. There is no vision. What we have here, Mr. Speaker, is an NDP government in denial of the problems, trying to divert people to other things instead of trying to address the real issues in Manitoba.

There is not the vision that there should have been. There is not a focussed effort that there should have been and we are shorter and less well off because of that. The Throne Speech should have provided the approach to ensuring that our economy is doing well. Each year under this government, at the beginning of the year, there are prom ises, suggestions that Manitoba is going to grow and grow and grow and, each year, at the end of th e year when we actually have the results, Manitoba has grown less well than the rest of Canada, sometimes much less well than the rest of Canada.

You know, all this rhetoric and flowery talk by the end of the year, when we analyze the results, shows that we are falling further behind the rest of Canada. Not a government which even recognizes the problem. Not a government which has provided the mix of programming, from changes to taxes to changes to the approach to entrepreneurs. What I hear from entrepreneurs is that, with this NDP government, instead of looking at investing in Manitoba, they want to fly over it, because they know that this NDP government has sadly not provided the right kind of climate.

We still have too many young people leaving, and we are not attracting the young people to grow this province, as we should be, from other provinces in Canada. The Throne Speech should have tackled much better than it did the quality of education. The Throne Speech should have indicated a willingness to tackle in a meaningful way the Capital Region issues, but it did not. Where was tourism in this Throne Speech? The NDP appear to have no interest in tourism. You know, there are abundant opportunities.

To cite just one small one in the Pembina constituency, the Morden Museum, a beautiful opportunity to enhance the tourism possibilities of Manitoba and to build the kind of opportunities that will increase tourism to this province, but no, no, they are not particularly– [interjection] Yes, well, the NDP fossils, it might bring it too close to home.

They have certainly, in Morden it is the largest collection of marine reptile fossils in all of Canada, and yet it is not getting any interest from the governing New Democratic Party. * (15:10) You know, even where they are addressing things in some of the ridings that they are looking after, when we actually compare it, many of the NDP ridings are among the poorest of ridings with some of the most problems. Why is it that they cannot even look after their own people in their own constituencies well? Surely, there should have been much better in many areas from this Throne Speech, but there was not.

Let us look at environmental issues. You know, we are now 15 years after 1990, and our greenhouse gas emissions are up some 11 percent from 1990. We are farther away from the target of reducing greenhouse gas emissions by 6 percent below the levels in 1990 than we were when this government came to office. We are getting farther away from the target instead of nearer to it. Sad commentary, but that is the reality.

96 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 1, 2005 Recently, a very careful audit of protected areas, of policy and activities by the provincial NDP government gave the government an F. In recent history it is almost unprecedented to give a government an F in this area because they have performed so badly. They avoided even mentioning this in the Throne Speech because it might have made them look bad. The government has neglected their promise to work with the federal government to establish the Lowlands National Park.

They had lots of opportunity over the last six years, but their own lack of any real interest in this area seems to have put the establishment of a park off till whoever knows when in the future. Lake Winnipegosis: there is still not, after six years, any plan to restore the walleye, the pickerel fishery to its historic levels. Even when it comes to enforcing existing environmental legislation, as the Provincial Council of Women pointed out, the NDP are breaking their own environmental laws.

They are breaking the laws of this province by not having the roundtable on sustainable development sitting and providing and working, providing advice on a regular basis. Well, when we look up north, one of the worst toxic mine waste tailings in all of Canada is to be found at the Sherridon mine. It is in desperate need of intervention to contain the leakage of harmful metals and chemicals, and yet where is this NDP government?

The MLA from Flin Flon has known about this problem since before 1999, and yet there has been no significant progress in more than six years, six lost years, si x lost years under this government. When we come to environmental issues, we now know why this government wanted to abolish the Manitoba Environmental Council. They did not want anybody looking at how bad they were handling environmental issues. When it comes to physical infrastructure, you know, the government produced a 2020 report. It was not even mentioned in the Throne Speech. There were some not bad things in that report.

But, no, they seemed to have deep-sixed that report. The MLA from Transcona worked quite hard on that. But it is very sad that the ideas that he worked so hard on just have not been supported by his government and by this Throne Speech. Infrastructure in this province, the highways, the bridges and so on need more attention from that. There are areas in southern Manitoba where the problems of not keeping roads up to RTAC standards are significant. They are hurting the economy.

This government is not doing its job, and because it has not paid attention to infrastructure, our economy and our well-being is suffering. Human capital: there have been calls, and we have made those calls, as well, to overhaul the social assistance program to ad dress the concerns and issues around poverty in this province. But the NDP government is just content to maintain the status quo with all its problems. They are content to keep people in poverty rather than to try to make some changes that could make a difference.

When it comes to the Métis in Manitoba, there has been an opportunity to provide good co- operation and a working environment together with Métis people around Manitoba, but this government has chosen time and time and time again to be confrontational with Métis people instead of co- operating and working together with the citizens, the Métis citizens of this province. My colleague the MLA for Inkster has brought forward some substantive proposals for electoral reform. The Throne Speech could have included a plan for electoral reform.

Many other provinces are recognizing the need for electoral change and reform, but this government, no, it has its head in the sand. It is content with the status quo. They do not want change or reform or improvement in Manitoba. B o y , i t i s s a d . S i x l o s t y e a r s , i n m a n y w a y s , u n d e r this government, and now the government is promising us one more last year. A Liberal Throne Speech would have provided a plan to make Manitoba a have-province and to change things so that youth want to stay in Manitoba and so that young people from elsewhere want to come here.

A Liberal Throne Speech would have introduced reforms to the social programs to provide a legal guarantee of timely access to quality health care and a process to implement it. A Liberal Throne Speech would have provided for major changes to our social assistance and child welfare programs so that we can help those who are vulnerable and less fortunate instead of producing a situation where they are all too often victimized and criminalized. A Liberal Throne Speech would have provided an action-oriented approach to address critical environmental issues around the province.

A Liberal Throne Speech would have provided for improved drainage and water management to help farmers, to reduce the risks, the substantial risks, that we saw this year of farming in this province. A Liberal Throne Speech would have provided–

November 1, 2005 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 97 An Honourable Member: A Liberal Throne Speech is 28 seats away. Mr. Gerrard: We are coming. We are coming on those 28 seats. A Liberal Throne Speech would have provided for better co-operative effo rts for people around this province to improve Manitoba instead of trying to deep-six innovative ideas as this NDP government is doing. Mr. Speaker, I now move, seconded by the MLA for Inkster, THAT the Motion be amended by deleting items (d), (

l) and (

n) in the amendment and by adding at the end of item (

z) the following words: (aa) the government's failure to commit to completely eliminate all education tax on farmland, and to move to 80 percent provincial funding of education instead of the present level of less than 60 percent; (bb) the government's failure to commit to legislate a legal right to timely access to quality health care and to provide for an approach which implements this right; (cc) the government's failure to commit to the principle of accountability in the delivery of public health care services in Manitoba; (dd) the government's failure to provide for and to deliver on a vision for its direction in health care in Manitoba as exem plified by the closure of the maternity ward at Victoria General Hospital without an adequate plan for the future; (ee) the government's failure to recognize the importance of fetal alcohol spectrum disorders and the government's failure to adequately provide for the critical need to diagnose and treat this condition well and to reduce the incidents of FASD and crime in Manitoba; (ff) the government's failure to adequately address the causes of crime; (gg) the government's failure to address poverty in Manitoba including overhauling the present social assistance system; (hh) the government's failure to provide for an adequate approach to drainage and water management in Manitoba in order to provide for better support for farmers; (ii) the government's failure to recognize the urgent need to contain the leakage of toxic metals and other chemicals from the very large toxic waste tailings pile at Sherridon in northern Manitoba; (jj) the government's failure to develop a plan to restore the walleye (picke rel) fishery on Lake Winnipegosis to its historic levels; (kk) the government's failure to deliver on their promise of establishing, in co-operation with the federal government, the Lowlands National Park; (ll) the government's failure to provide for an adequate plan to develop the tourism industry in Manitoba; (mm) the government's failure to work co- operatively with the Métis people of Manitoba in order to improve conditions for all Manitobans; (nn) the government's failure to commit to a process leading to electoral reform and improved democracy in Manitoba. * (15:20) Mr.

Deputy Speaker: It has been moved by the honourable Member for River Heights– Some Honourable Members: Dispense. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Dispense. The Chair finds the subamendment is in order. An Honourable Member: Are you sure? Mr. Deputy Speaker: Sure. Mrs. Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): I am not sure if I can follow such an incred ibly enthusiastic speech from the member from River Heights, but I will try my best, Mr. Speaker. This is the sixth Throne Speech that I have listened to in this House, and, regrettably, Mr. Speaker, there has been a continued narrowing of the vision set forth by the Prem ier (Mr.

Doer) and this Province. Unfortunately, there is really not much in this Throne Speech for Manitobans unless, of course, you are a union boss or maybe a member of the Hells Angels. Certainly, Mr. Speaker, Manitobans deserve better than the tired, empt y rhetoric that they get from this government. A common theme that we see of this government is pr omises made and promises broken. Promises after pr omises after promises,

98 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 1, 2005 announcements after announcements after announcements, but very, very little action, and Manitobans are tired of the empty rhetoric. Mr. Speaker, we believe that Manitobans deserved a clear vision from their government in this Throne Speech. We believe that they deserve sensible solutions to problems facing our province. We believe that they deserve hope for the future, and particularly our young people who want to stay here in Manitoba and want to live and work and raise their families here in Manitoba.

But, really, there was nothing in this Throne Sp eech that provides them hope and opportunity for the future here in Manitoba. We also believe that Manitobans deserve a government that does not accept or strive for mediocrity, and that is what we have seen from this government time and time again by not creating a sound economic environment with lower taxation and something that is more competitive than what we are right now. We are forcing people to leave, Mr. Speaker, and it is obviously the strive to mediocrity that we do not accept on this side of the House. Mr.

Speaker, it is the role of the government to encourage progress and opportunity and not to hinder it. This is, again, my sixth Throne Speech in this Legislature and each Throne Speech that I have heard continues to hinder the opportunity of, indeed, all Manitobans, but particularly young people here in this province. We think that that is rather unfortunate. What Manitobans got is that this government that just delivered its seventh Throne Speech and all we heard was the same r ecycled promises and the same feel-good rhetoric.

Empty rhetoric, again, broken promises, unpreceden ted debt, this really is the legacy of this government. Mr. Speaker, this Throne Speech contained the phrase "since 1999" 17 times. It is time for them to get out of the 1990s and into today and the future, which they should be planning for, for the future of our young people in this province.

We need to stop going back and looking back and blaming the days of the 1990s, everything that they have not been able to achieve, which they have not been able to achieve much, I have to say, but at least they can start looking forward and have a true vision and provide hope and opportunity for the future of young people in our province. So, Mr. Speaker, needless to say, I certainly will not be voting in favour of this Throne Speech for many reasons. I am going to elaborate on these reasons for the next 30 minutes or so. Sorry, 20 minutes. Mr.

Speaker, there is no strategy in this Throne Speech to deal with the growing debt. We now see it at $20 billion. [interjection] Sorry, $30 billion will be next year. But we are at $20 billion now, some $3.5 billion more since this government came to office in 1999. The debt is growing by more than $1.5 million a day, which is absolutely unacceptable and is essentially mortgaging our children's future in our province. Mr. Speaker, there is absolutely no strategy for economic growth in our province. We will not vote for a Throne Speech that under-resources our police officers.

We came up with a plan that involved a hundred new police officers on our streets, and all the Premier (Mr. Doer) could do is stand up and say, "These are virtual police officers." Well, I would like to see where his police officers are, because they seem not to be on the streets. They seem to be more a phantom or virtual than what he is claiming they are. So we would like to see more in that area too. We will not vote for a Throne Speech that does not address the gang, drug and violence problems in our province. We will not vote for a Throne Speech that offers no hope for Manitobans waiting in pain.

I will not vote for a Throne Speech that does not address the crisis in rural health care. We will not vote for a Throne Speech that offers no support for Manitobans assessed large ambulance transfer bills in this province, Mr. Speaker. This Throne Speech shows the NDP government has absolutely no new ideas on how to sustain agriculture, as well, in this province. So, just to elaborate on a few of these areas, let us talk taxes. Mr. Speaker, we wanted to see the complete elimination of education property taxes on residential property and farmland.

This Throne Speech failed to provide the tax relief Manitobans are demanding. Anything short of the total elimination of this tax is unacceptable. We wanted to see tax cuts that would ensure that we are no longer the highest-taxed province in Canada. Unfortunately, this Throne Speech has failed to do that as well. There is absolutely no new tax cuts announced in this Throne Speech. The tax cuts that we have seen have been announced before. They are re-announced, and there is no new tax relief for Manitobans.

November 1, 2005 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 99 Let us look at economic growth and job creation, or lack thereof, in Manitoba. At a time of unprecedented revenue in this province, this government has failed again to show any recognition that a thriving and competitive tax environment is essential to making Manitoba an attractive place in which to live and do business. There was nothing in this Throne Speech to show that this government is making economic growth and job creation priorities.

As a matter of fact, the only job creation or growth in this province, if at all, because certainly we are seeing a decline in the private sector, is actually in the public sector. So it seems to be the strategy of this government, when it comes to a job creation strategy, to hire more people in government, and that is the way they are going to create a thriving economy in Manitoba. Well, let me tell you, that is not the way it is done. Clearly, they just do not quite get that, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this Throne Speech provided no long-term economic vision.

Manitoba has one of the lowest average weekly wages in Canada. We have ranked ninth out of 10 provinces in job growth over the past two years. One thing that they neglected to mention in this Throne Speech, as well, another thing, is the debt. Well, of course, why would they want to mention something that is a negative factor for the children of our province? This government continues to mortgage our children's future.

This Throne Speech failed to even mention the provincial debt, which is at its highest level in the history of our province, in and around $20 billion, again, growing at $1.5 million per day. * (15:30) Since 1999, this government has operated with little accountability or fiscal responsibility, Mr. Speaker. Manitobans are now facing a growing debt that threatens the financ ial strength and future prosperity of the province.

The provincial debt continues, again, as I said earlier, to grow by $1.5 million a day, and perhaps the most alarming number of all to me is that the cost of servicing the debt this year will be $767 million. Just think of all of the hip replacements that you could do, that could be performed. Think of all the knee replacements. Thing of all the things that we could do for the social infrastructure in our province. Think of all the money that we could give back to Manitobans in the way of tax relief, some of their hard-earned tax dollars from that $767 million.

That, to me, is one of the most alarming numbers that we have seen. So, Mr. Speaker, the Throne Speech delivered no economic plan to make Manitoba an attractive place to live, work and raise our families; therefore, another reason why I will not be able to vote in favour of this Throne Speech. Mr. Speaker, I would like to touch on the justice area or, again, lack thereof, in this province. If we look at gangs, the biggest disappointment and the biggest failure of the government in this Throne Speech is that there was virtually nothing to address the growing gang problem in this province.

We need more than empty promises and hollow announcements. Manitobans need swift, tough actions. Manitobans deserve to feel safe, and as former Mayor Giuliani of New York once stated, "Once people feel safe, they can go about living their daily lives without fear and can contribute to the economy." So I think this government can actually learn from former Mayor Giuliani and some of the things that he has done and did in New York to clean up the crime problem and make a safe environment for citizens in that community. Under the watch of the NDP, we have seen the Hells Angels and the Bandidos move into Manitoba.

Under the watch of the NDP, we have seen the growth of gang activity and violence in our communities. Mr. Speaker, the City of Winnipeg has announced a strategy to deal with growing gang violence. We have announced our plan to deal with gang violence and crime in the city and the province. This government has announced nothing. The Premier (Mr. Doer) says he is going to add more prosecutors to the gang unit. Unfortunately, without more police on the streets to arrest the criminals in the first place, we are not going to have the need for additional prosecutors. Mr. Speaker, let us talk about the meth strategy.

We have been talking about the meth crisis for a long time. Why has it taken this government so long to act? Why will they not lay out specific details of their plan? Crystal meth has taken hold of our province and our youth, and we must take decisive action now. Mr. Speaker, enough is enough. Manitobans are increasingly frustrated with the proliferation of drugs, gangs and violence throughout the province. Manitobans have said enough is enough.

100 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 1, 2005 We urge the government to put partisan politics aside for the sake of Manitobans and to look seriously at the recommendations we proposed in our action plan for safe communities: Funding for at least an additional 100 officers for Winnipeg–those are not virtual officers; those are real, live officers on the streets of Manitoba–funding for at least an additional five officers fo r Brandon; an integrated provincial gang strategy committee; a municipal reserve gang strategy committee; expansion of the police-in-school programs; greater support for parents of drug-addicted children to get help for their children; more beds in detox facilities; electronic monitoring for high-risk gang and sex offenders who are released on conditions of probation.

Mr. Speaker, there are so many reasons why we cannot possibly support this Throne Speech. We will not vote for a Throne Sp eech that under-resources police officers, and we will not vote for a Throne Speech that does not address the gang, drug and violence problems in our province. Mr. Speaker, when it comes to health care, Manitobans deserve timely access to quality health care services, something th ey are now being denied in our province.

We wanted to see a clear plan in this Throne Speech for reduci ng wait lists, restoring health care services to rural Manitobans and for covering the costs of inter-facility ambulance transfers. This government has had more than six years and seven throne speeches to deal with the crisis in health care, yet they have failed Manitobans. This Throne Speech offers little comfort to those waiting in pain for surgery and for those whose local emergency rooms are closed, forcing them to travel the highways in order to access health care services.

Highway medicine is alive and well, as is hallway medicine, despite the promise by the Premier of this province some almost six or seven years ago in the 1999 campaign of ending hallway medicine in six months with $15 million. Again, promises made and promises broken, Mr. Speaker. How can we trust anything that they are going to introduce now? There is nothing in this Throne Speech to deal with the crisis in rural health care. Communities throughout Manitoba are facing closed emergency rooms and downgraded services.

This Throne Speech offers little hope to patients in Brandon, Ashern, Arborg, Deloraine, Boissevain and so many other communities, all those communities whose local emergency rooms are closed and who are experiencing doctor shortages, and there are many, many more communities than just the ones that I mentioned. Mr. Speaker, hallway medicine has given way to highway medicine, although they are both very much alive and well in Manitoba as patients are shipped on Manitoba highways in order to access health care services that are no longer available in their communities.

This Throne Speech fails to deal with the ambulance transfer bills that are being sent to rural Manitobans. The government should not be offloading the cost of ambulance transfers onto the backs of patients, yet they continue to do so. This government must take responsibility for their failures in health care and agree to cover the cost of inter- facility ambulance transfers. Stating that they will be looking at addressing the inequities does nothing to help rural Manitobans who continue to be treated as second-class citizens by this government.

I think that their inability to manage the health care crisis and the doctor shortage in this province has caused many of the people from rural Manitoba to be shipped by ambulance to other communities and to Winnipeg. What happens is, if they have to stay more than 24 hours, they will automatically be charged the fee for the ambulance. Well, obviously, that is wrong.

The government is not able, first and foremost, to keep those doctors and attract them in those communities, so they have to send these people by ambulance to Winnipeg where these people will have to wait in line in the ERs with everyone else in Winnipeg who is waiting in line for health care in this province. While they are waiting in line and waiting and waiting for 24 hours, 48 hours to get the care that they need, you kn ow, then they get home, they are finally getting a little bit better and what do they get? They get a bill in the mail. Well, clearly, there is something wrong with that.

I think that there are probably many members opposite who are getting phone calls from people in their communities who are extremely concerned about this issue. Obviously, we have come up with a strategy for dealing with this issue. We believe that all inter- facility ambulance transfers should be covered because it is the right thing to do. Mr. Speaker, we will not vote for a Throne Speech that offers no hope to Manitobans waiting in pain.

We will not vote for a Throne Speech that does not address the crisis in rural health care, and we will not vote for a Throne Speech that offers no support for Manitobans assessed large ambulance transfer bills.

November 1, 2005 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 101 This government has an opportunity. We have been consistent in our message when it comes to dealing with the wait list crisis that plagues the citizens within our communities. We have talked time and time again about the need for change within the delivery of health care services in our province, yet this government continues to refuse to look at our alternatives to some of the ills that are faced with the waiting lists. I will tell you, Mr.

Speaker, I wish they would listen and I wish they would listen hard, because people across this province are wanting answers. They want to get off waiting lists. They are waiting in pain. We are looking at people waiting for hip and knee replacement surgery. We are looking at children who are waiting for pediatric dental surgery.

These people have been waiting, in the case of the hips and knees, somewhere up to two and three years for their hip and knee replacements. * (15:40) The pediatric dental surgery, there was a proposal that was brought forth to this government by the Maples Surgical Ce ntre offering to deplete that list within one year. All of those children would have been off the list by now.

All of those dental surgeries would have taken place had the government agreed to contract out with the Maples Surgical Centre, and I know members opposite said and have said, incorrectly, on the record and on radio stations that the proposal ac tually cost more than it does in the public system. Well, that is dead wrong, Mr. Speaker. Absolutely wrong. The proposal was to do them at cost. That is no profit.

It would have been done at less a cost than the public system, but I think what you have to understand, too, is accountability within the health care system itself and what this government cannot say right now if I were to ask them, "How much does it cost to actually perform a hip or knee replacement surgery in this province?" Mr. Speaker in the Chair Well, you know what?

They cannot tell us how much it costs because there is no accountability within the system, and if there is no accountability in the system how do you create efficiencies within a system to be able to free up more money to perform more hip and knee replacement surgeries and so on? I would suggest there are two things: Create accountability within the system, but also look at other innovative ways to deliver health care services in this province and, Mr.

Speaker, we believe strongly on this side of the House that public-private partnerships in the delivery of health care services, again, within the publicly funded system, should absolutely be looked at but, again, in this Throne Speech there is absolutely no vision, no hope for the future of patients waiting in pain. In conclusion, I think, I have given several reasons, and I could, again, go on and on and on in many other areas. Education, agriculture, so many other areas, conservation, energy, science and technology, world development, water stewardship, Mr.

Speaker, I could go on and on and on with all of the other reasons to vote against this Throne Speech, but I think the Leader of the Opposition has outlined it very well in our amendment here, which I will be supporting. So I will leave my words at that, but, again, I am very disappointed in this government for the sixth year that I have been here in a row. Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona): It is my pleasure to stand and speak to our latest Throne Speech, Mr. Speaker, for the Fourth Se ssion of the Thirty-Eighth Legislature of the Province of Manitoba.

I am pleased first to start by welcoming you back, Sir, to this session and I hope that everything goes smoothly for you in the Chamber activities and do not require your intervention on too many occasions. I would also like to welcome back the table officers that assist us every day in the performance of our duties and for the good work that they have done and no doubt will continue to do in the days and weeks to come. I would also like to welcome our new pages who are with us throughout this session and I wish th em every success.

I hope that they have an enjoyable experience during their time with us here during this session and that they learn about the democratic process that we have in the province of Manitoba, but as folks have often said I hope that they are not too discouraged about the way they see some of the laws are being made in this province and some of the debates that take place in here.

Obviously, it takes place in the spirit of combative nature, but it is all with words and, while we are serious about the issues, we do have the opportunity on many occasions to work together, both opposition and government members, and that has occurred throughout my years here and, I think, our government is proud that we can bring forward policies that all Manitobans can accept as our guides for our way of life. Now, Mr. Speaker, I would first also like to mention, too, that it was a bit of a sad time for me since we last sat in this Legislature. I had, of course, since June we have lost a few friends in the

102 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 1, 2005 community of Transcona, folks that were long-time active community residents and volunteers. I would like to mention that Joe Konkin had passed away. Joe had played a significant role first with his union activities as the negotiator and team representative for the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers over a number of years prior to his retirement. He has passed away, unfortunately , from cancer. Mr. John Pullen, no stranger to members of this House, also passed away from cancer, and I did a member's statement on that yesterday.

John provided unbelievable advice to members of this Legislative Assembly over his years and to the working public and to families here in Manitoba through his efforts to bring forward policy and to work for those improvements to the quality of life that we all enjoy in the province of Manitoba. We have also lost another friend, Helen Schellenberg, long-time family members in the community of Transcona and no strangers to the community of Transcona, a very large family.

We would like to also recognize, and we are saddened by, the passing of Helen Schellenberg as well and for the contribution of these three individuals to our community of Transcona and also to our province of Manitoba. Mr.

Speaker, on a more happier note, I had the opportunity in July of this year to attend the Order of Manitoba ceremonies that occurred here, and I have to say I think it is for the first time perhaps in the history of the community that I am fortunate enough to represent we have an Order of Manitoba representative living within the community, someone who is no stranger to members of this Legislative Assembly or perhaps to the public of Manitoba. That individual happens to be one Martin Johnson, who is a retired firefighter now.

He has been retired for a couple of years, but Martin was instrumental in the start-up of the Firefighters Burn Fund and continues to play an active role in that fund and the very good work that that fund does in providing support services to burn victims and their surviving families. Martin was a firefighter for 40 years and of course he has been on the Burn Fund for over 27 years, so he was there from the very beginning. We would like to congratulate Martin Johnson for the work that he has performed on behalf of so many, so many Manitobans.

We are indeed pleased and honoured that Martin is a resident of the community of Transcona and that he is a recipient of the Order of Manitoba. Mr. Speaker, I would like to also wish my friends in the Sikh community and the Hindu community here in the province of Manitoba, today is Happy Diwali to all members of the Sikh and Hindu community in the province of Manitoba. This is the Festival of Lights, which is celebrated just before winter on the night of no moon, and that happens to be tonight. So for my colleague the Member for Radisson (Mr. Jha), who is taking

part in these services as well, this is an important day for the Hindu and the Sikh communities, so that is I am sure something we can all celebrate together. Now, Mr. Speaker, I would like to turn my comments to the Throne Speech, and I listened quite intently to the comments that were made by members opposite with respect to the Throne Speech. One of the things that always strikes me about the way they comment about the Throne Speech is how negative the members of the opposition are. An Honourable Member: Nabobs of negativism. Mr.

Reid: As my colleague the member from Burrows says, "Nattering nabobs of negativism." It is interesting to note it takes so much energy to be negative. I do not know why for at least once in my years here and watching you as an opposition why you cannot be positive about some of the multitude of good things that are happening in the province of Manitoba. I will go through some of those good things, some of those good things that are happening here in Manitoba.

I will touch on them, although there are many more that no doubt can be talked about, perhaps, by others that will speak after me here today and in the coming days. Mr.

Speaker, let us start first with the fact that our government when we came into office in the late fall of 1999, we came forward with a clear strategy where we would try to encourage our young folks to continue with their education here in the province of Manitoba because we saw as a government the key to building our province is a well-educated workforce and young people that are interested in continuing with their education and then staying in the province of Manitoba to work and to raise their families. That was the key to the success of the province as part of the overall strategy to building our province.

We set out, and I am sure some of my colleagues will remember here, the much accomplished More to Do brochure that we had during the campaign in '03

November 1, 2005 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 103 and the five points that we have indicated to Manitobans. I will start, Mr. Speaker, we will continue to improve our health care system, and I will go into details about that in a few moments. * (15:50) Second point, Mr. Speaker, we will make it easier for young people to stay in Manitoba. The third point is we will continue to strengthen and diversify our economy, and I will talk about that in a few moments. We will ma ke our communi ties safer and more secure. I will also talk about that in a few moments.

We will make Manitoba an even more affordable place to live, and we are accomplishing that as well. So you can have check marks on each of those headings, as we are making significant progress on those fronts. I am not saying for a moment that we do not have more work to do because we do recognize that there are more challenges that we need to address and more work that needs to be done to address those particular challenges, Mr. Speaker. Let us start with some of the issues that have been in discussion here in the Legislative Assembly. The floodway expansion, Mr.

Speaker, now, I recognize that former Premier Duff Roblin was the visionary or the person spearheading the original construction of the Manitoba floodway, and we have great respect for that visi on and for the work that Duff Roblin and his government of the day undertook in protecting the citizens of the city of Winnipeg, because I think that was visionary. Now we have a Premie r (Mr.

Doer) in this province who also wishes to continue with a strong vision to further enhance and protect the safety of the public of the province of Manitoba, and we have undertaken some flood remediation strategies in southern Manitoba in partnership with our federal government colleagues. But, also, we have recognized that we need to expand the floodway. We are in that process now, Mr.

Speaker, as of September 23 of this year, when our Premier and former-Premier Duff Roblin came together with other members of this Legislature and the federal Parliament to participate in the sod-turning ceremony for the new floodway operations and expansion. I like to call it the 3-D project. If you will bear with me, Mr. Speaker, I mean no disrespect with respect to the names, but the Doer-Duff ditch seems to be applicable in these cases.

The 3-D project, as I call it, will give the opportunity for over 1000 Manitobans to be employed in the building and the expansion of the floodway, and it will create significant job opportunities for members of our province as they contribute towards the building of that floodway. To give you an example with respect to the floodway, and this is an ar ticle that came out about Lafarge Canada which was awarded a $21-million contract on the floodway expansion project. It is my understanding, Mr. Speaker, that this is only one of a number of contracts that Lafarge will be involved in.

They will be able to employ some 23 workers over the next five years, and it will create 35 new jobs at their Dawson Road facility. That is just one small part of the overall project. In pre-cast concrete pro ducts, the largest pre-cast concrete contract in Manitoba history, this particular floodway project will employ over 1000 people over the next five years.

My understanding is that 80 percent of the workers on the first excavation contract are employment-equity Manitobans, First Nations people who are employed now on that particular project, giving opportunities and hope and a future for those people who are employed in that. Barkman Concrete from Steinbach, and I know the Member for Steinbach (Mr. Goertzen) is probably interested in this, was awarded a $400,000 contract to provide the highway barriers. Mr.

Speaker, John McCallum, a University of Manitoba economist, says that the expansion of the floodway could generate about $2.5-billion worth of economic activity over the fi ve years of the life of that project. So huge, huge opportunities for the province of Manitoba, and, in fairness, I want to make sure that I pay thanks to the federal government for partnering in this process with us to expand the floodway, but we have visionaries in this province knowing, and our Premier (Mr.

Doer), I give him credit for recognizing that we need to expand the floodway and to protect the citizens from what will be a once-in-700-year flood. Mr. Speaker, we have a government in place that is prepared to recognize and to deal with serious situations and to be able to strike partnership arrangements with our other colleagues to make sure that these types of projects go forward. Now, Mr. Speaker, I like to think of our government as a builder government. The floodway is just one of many projects that we are involved in.

We started with education, as I said before, giving hope and opportunity to our young people, but we

104 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 1, 2005 also believe in strategic partnerships or alliances or arrangements with the public and private sector to construct projects like this. I think back to just recently when we announced the Red River College campus downtown here, and I had the opportunity to tour that facility. An Honourable Member: Four years ago. Mr. Reid: Yes, it did start a number of years ago. It was just completed, and we had the opportunity to go through that facility. [interjection] Perhaps the Member for Steinbach does not like that project.

If he does not like it, I am sure he will say that, but I think it was a good project because it brought folks back downtown into the centre of Winnipeg and gave us the opportunity to have our young folks receive their education right in the centre of the city of Winnipeg, Mr. Speaker. The members opposite were opposed to the demolition of the Eaton's building.

We heard in Question Period here that they were opposed to the construction of the new MTS Centre, and we just heard recently how that particular centre now has achieved the one millionth customer going through the doors for that particular facility, and I believe in less than a year. So that is a significant accomplishment. We have a number of opportunities with respect to our universities which I will talk a bit about in a few moments, regarding education. Mr.

Speaker, Hydro itself now is commencing and the land has been cleared and they are commencing the construction of the new downtown Hydro headquarters building, a state-of-the-art green building, if I can use that term, that will incorporate the latest features with respect to environmental facilities and operations of that particular building. I am quite proud that our government, as a builder government, again, Mr.

Speaker, was able to conclude a power sale to the province of Ontario that will allow for power savings that Manitobans have accumulated with respect to their reduction in hydro- electric power over a period of time, have been able now to save that power and were are able to export that power to the province of Ontario, which will generate about half-a-billion dollars over the

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	38-4-4
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	38th 4th hansardpdf 4.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	74feb21e0e6489af46e8ca234e73cc938ee35e3c

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