Third Session, 42nd Parliament

(2022) OFFICIAL REPORT

OF DEBATES

(HANSARD)

Wednesday, June 1, 2022

Afternoon Sitting

Issue No. 218

ISSN 1499-2175

The HTML transcript is provided for informational purposes only.

The PDF transcript remains the official digital version.

CONTENTS

Routine Business

Introductions by Members

Tributes

Joe Segal

Hon. S. Robinson

Introductions by Members

Tributes

Joe Segal

K. Falcon

Introductions by Members

Tributes

Donald Dong Toy Nip

J. Routledge

Introductions by Members

Tributes

Wendy Yu

H. Yao

Introductions by Members

Introduction and First Reading of

Bills

Bill M210 — Correction Statutes Amendment Act,

A. Olsen

Bill M211 — Wildlife Amendment Act (No. 2),

T. Shypitka

Statements (Standing Order 25B)

World Milk Day and dairy farmers

M. Dykeman

Supports to LGBTQ+ youth by Family Services of the

North Shore

K. Kirkpatrick

Awareness of deafblindness

B. Bailey

Indigenous history and reconciliation

M. Lee

Summer reopening and sense of hope

R. Singh

ALS awareness and support organizations

S. Bond

Oral Questions

Ambulance service and service management

K. Falcon

Hon. J. Horgan

S. Bond

Hon. A. Dix

Access by Gwa’sala-’Nakwaxda’xw Nations to child

welfare records

A. Olsen

Hon. M. Dean

Hon. J. Horgan

Government action on issues in health care

system

R. Merrifield

Hon. A. Dix

P. Milobar

T. Stone

Tributes

Mike Baer

Mr. Speaker

(Hon. R. Chouhan)

Tabling Documents

Crown Proceeding Act, report, fiscal year ended March 31,

Petitions

M. Elmore

Orders of the Day

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Office of the Premier

Hon. J. Horgan

K. Falcon

S. Furstenau

Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of Transportation and

Infrastructure (continued)

B. Stewart

Hon. R. Fleming

Estimates: Ministry of Social Development and

Poverty Reduction

Hon. N. Simons

D. Davies

A. Olsen

M. Lee

Estimates: Ministry of Public Safety and Solicitor

General

Hon. M. Farnworth

M. Morris

N. Letnick

WEDNESDAY, JUNE 1, 2022

The House met at 1:34 p.m.

[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]

Routine Business

Prayers and reflections: N. Letnick.

[1:35 p.m.]

Introductions by Members

Hon. B. Ralston: It’s my honour this afternoon to introduce the consul general of the

Philippines for British Columbia, the Yukon and the Northwest Territories,

Maria Andrelita S. Austria. Prior to her assignment to Vancouver, she served

as assistant secretary for American affairs at the Department of Foreign

Affairs in Manila. She was deputy chief of mission at the Philippine embassy

in Washington, D.C., from 2009 to 2014, and served in the office of the

President as deputy presidential assistant for Foreign Affairs. She has

worked on both policy and consular issues, focusing primarily on ASEAN,

Southeast Asia, the Pacific and the Americas.

She is accompanied today by her spouse, Carlito Eduardo Austria, and

they have three children. Would the House please make her

welcome.

Tributes

JOE SEGAL

Hon. S. Robinson: I have unfortunate news to share with the House today. Joseph

Segal passed away yesterday. His funeral was this afternoon.

Joe Segal was born in Alberta. He spent 2½ years with the Calgary

Highlanders and served overseas during the Second World War. He came to

Vancouver in ’46 and went on to acquire significant holdings in retail.

In ’79, he formed Kingswood Capital Corp. real estate development and

acquired a number of companies to turn around.

He also served on the board of Simon Fraser University for over 12

years, was a chancellor for six years and was an individual who was

absolutely instrumental in establishing the Simon Fraser University

Harbour Centre downtown campus, as well as the Simon Fraser Wosk Centre

for Dialogue. He was a major contributor there.

Joe Segal was absolutely a self-made man, an entrepreneur, never

forgot others and never forgot where he came from. He received the Order

of Canada and the Order of British Columbia. Mr. Segal and his family

generously support many, many, many organizations and charities in our

communities, including hospital foundations and university foundations

and the Courage to Come Back Awards.

I want to end my comments with a quote that Mr. Segal himself made

when he was interviewed upon making a generous contribution to the

Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation. He said: “You have an obligation

in society to give because you truly feel you want to give. This is a

different situation than giving because you have to give.”

Mr. Segal was a man of his word, giving what he could.

May his memory be for a blessing.

Introductions by Members

D. Coulter: I’d like to introduce Lisa McGuire, CEO of the Manufacturing Safety

Alliance, from my hometown of Chilliwack. The safety alliance of B.C. is a

not-for-profit health and safety association that supports food processors

and manufacturers across the province.

Lisa was instrumental in guiding her members, many of whom we rely on

for our food security, throughout the COVID pandemic. She worked tirelessly

to make sure that the food processing and manufacturing sectors stayed safe

and open for the benefit of all of us.

Thank you, Lisa.

Please welcome Lisa to the House.

K. Falcon: First, I’d like to introduce some guests that we’ve got in the

chambers today. I’d like to welcome Parminder Atwal, Amrik Cheema, Gurjinder

Rana, Sunny Dewat, Jagjit Kooner and J.T. Sandhar. Will the House please

make them welcome.

Tributes

JOE SEGAL

K. Falcon: I’d like to take a moment, if I could, to follow up on the

Minister of Finance’s comments on the unfortunate passing of a legendary

British Columbian and Canadian, a man who I knew well and respected

enormously. That was Joe Segal.

[1:40 p.m.]

It is rare that an individual can have such an impact in a

lifetime of 97 years like Joe did. His impact will be felt not just in

British Columbia but right across Canada. He was an extraordinarily

generous individual, not just philanthropically but generous with his

time and his advice to a whole generation of community leaders and

business people.

He was remarkably modest and humble for an individual that had

such an incredibly successful life — fought bravely in World War II,

came home, built an empire and then donated so much of it back to make

the community better, whether it was in the education system, in the

mental health field, in all manner of areas that have served British

Columbians well.

We want to extend, on behalf of everyone in this House — the

Premier and the Finance Minister and all members of this House — our

very best in the memory of Joe Segal, his lovely wife Rosalie and their

beautiful children.

May they forever be blessed.

Introductions by Members

Hon. M. Farnworth: It’s my pleasure today to introduce a longtime friend and someone who

gave a lot of service behind the scenes in this place, Gail Gotto. She first

came to work for our caucus back in 1986. She stayed for 14½ years. She got

to know…. She worked for ministers and ensured that the MLAs were able to do

their job and caucus were able to do their job. She’s here visiting for the

first time in quite some time, so would the House please make her most

welcome.

K. Greene: I’d like to introduce two of my constituents. They feed me dinner,

lend me their car, look after my kids. They’re my parents. I’d like to

introduce John and Margaret Berkyto.

Through an unlikely series of events, my dad, most recently in

California, and my mom, from Saskatoon, ended up in Vancouver, working at

the same bank branch. These lovebirds got married in 1977, 45 years ago, and

the rest is history.

My parents did an amazing job raising a daughter who was the square

peg in a world full of round holes. It wasn’t easy, which is why they say

I’m their favourite oldest daughter. Their favourite middle daughter and

favourite youngest daughter are accomplished and caring people, but we’ve

all been eclipsed by the new loves of their lives, seven precocious and

adorable grandkids.

They have passed on important lessons, and I’d like to share a few

with you today. It’s okay to be weird; normal is boring. Love with your

whole heart. Step up for those without the privileges you have. There is a

quote for every life situation in the movie Christmas

Vacation .

Dad, you taught me everything I know about exterior

illumination.

Will everyone please make my mom and dad most welcome.

Mr. Speaker: Minister of Energy and Mines.

Hon. B. Ralston: And low carbon energy. I rise today to recognize the New Car Dealers

Association of British Columbia and their leadership in driving us towards a

low-carbon economy.

Here with us in the gallery today are Blair Qualey, president and CEO;

Anthony Lunelli, chairperson; Ben Lovie, vice-chair; James Carter, past

chair; Ann Marie Clark, treasurer; Peter Heppner, director and chair; and

Ryan Jones, director of the foundation. If you’re plugged into what’s going

on, if I could use that metaphor, you will know that earlier today they

joined me in proclaiming June Clean Transportation Month and electrified it

with an EV day event in front of the Legislature.

The New Car Dealers Association and their members have worked with our

province to provide British Columbians with more clean transportation

options and steer us away from fossil fuels. The number of EVs on B.C.’s

roads has increased by an incredible 1,600 percent over the past six years,

and British Columbians continue to uptake electric vehicles as we lead the

relation to EVs, as the Norway of North America.

Please join me in thanking the New Car Dealers Association for their

efforts, and please give them a very hearty welcome.

Hon. G. Heyman: A year ago I got to stand in the House and tell the story of a

much-loved constituent in Vancouver-Fairview, Margery Kellett. Margery was

born on May 23, 1922, on the family farm in the southwest tip of County Cork

in Ireland.

[1:45 p.m.]

She went on to become a teacher and had a long and successful teaching

career, both in Ireland and here in Canada, in Vancouver. She was an active

part of the community, for many, many years in many volunteer

capacities.

Just last year she hosted a garden party at her home for a number of

us, and I can assure you she was on point. As her daughter Rosalind says,

she’s in fine form. Margery says that she is amazed to have turned 100 and

wants to thank the community for all their support and friendship. I believe

Margery and her daughter are watching this afternoon.

Please join me in wishing Margery Kellett a very, very happy 100th

birthday.

J. Sims: Today in the Hall of Honour we all, of course, celebrated Filipino

Heritage Month, the month of June.

Now it’s my pleasure to introduce to this House Mr. Fortaleza, who is

chairman and CEO of the Surrey-based ReyFort Publishing and Entertainment

media group, which includes the publications Philippine Asian News

Today, Philippine Showbiz Today and broadcast show Philippine

News Canada .

Mr. Fortaleza is also an Olympian who has won numerous medals as an

international boxer. He was part of the 1976 Filipino Olympic team and

reached the quarter-finals of the Montreal Olympics. He and his two

brothers, who were also Olympians, were known as the Boxing Brothers of the

Philippines.

Today Mr. Fortaleza is a valued community leader whose many

contributions to those around him have earned him many, many accolades. He

is married to Cely Angeles, and they are blessed with three children. He is

accompanied here today by Bert Parungao.

Welcome to the House.

T. Wat: It is my pleasure to welcome my constituents, Jennifer Adams and her

husband, Ron Pultr, to the Legislature. Jennifer is a well-known Richmond

real estate professional and was a very successful business owner. She is

also very actively involved in many community works, such as Richmond Cares,

Richmond Gives, the Nite of Hope and the Society of Richmond Children’s

Centres.

I got to know Ron through the Richmond Yacht Club. Could members

remember that I made a two-minute statement talking about the good work the

Richmond Yacht Club has done for the community?

Would the House please welcome Jennifer and Ron to the

House.

Hon. K. Chen: I am honoured to have this opportunity to introduce a group of

professionals who are taking a field trip to this chamber from my office.

They are people from our child care team, including Cherie Wilson, Sarena

Talbot, Amelia Hill and also Kathleen Johnson.

I cannot thank them enough for the work that they do every single day

to support the work I do, including supporting my child care struggles so I

can do this work every single day. I learn so much from them — their

stories, their courage. They are not just a great group of professionals,

but they are also my friends and sisters. I thank them so much for the work

that they do.

I also really want to take this opportunity, as yesterday was the end

of Child Care Month. I want to thank all the colleagues in this House,

including the professionals like my team, the MLA for Vancouver-Hastings — I

also see that my former EA, Lindsay Banh, is also in this House — and

really, everyone who supports the investment in child care to make child

care a core service for all B.C. families so parents like me no longer have

to struggle.

M. Elmore: I’d like to join my colleague from Surrey-Panorama and welcome

everybody. If you look up, you’ll notice there are few folks wearing

barongs, traditional dress from the Philippines.

It was just a terrific celebration in the Hall of Honour to mark June

1 and kick off B.C.’s proclamation recognizing June as Filipino Heritage

Month, welcoming community leaders from across British Columbia to really

celebrate the contributions of the community — their hard work; their

bayanihan , community spirit — and recognizing everything that

they do right across our province.

There are a lot of you. You can see I’m not going to name everybody,

but I want to recognize you.

[1:50 p.m.]

We’ve got events happening right across the province. It was terrific

to have members across the House join our event. I’m extending an invitation

for everybody to join celebrations this month.

Also, I recognize, from our Consular Corps, Consul Analyn Ratonel and

everybody here for the event today.

I’d ask everybody please to give everybody a warm welcome and wish

everybody a happy Filipino Heritage Month for June.

Hon. N. Cullen: Joining us in the gallery today is my long-suffering communications

team and ministerial staff. They’ve come in today to watch the magic and

mystery of question period live to fully comprehend all of our genius as we

try to take their ideas and put them back to each other — Mike Allison,

Shawn Larabee, Alanah Connie, Aaron Hinks and Julian Paquette; and also my

ministerial team of Lindsay Banh, Casey Cathcart, Sonja Leeuw and Scott

Andrews.

Last but not least — he’ll be leaving us just this summer — there’s

Brady Yano. I may have driven him from this place because he will be

pursuing an opportunity at McGill for a two-year masters of urban planning

and leadership program — a full-ride scholarship, I believe, from the very

generous McCall MacBain family trust. Brady started here as a wide-eyed

parliamentary legislative intern in 2018. He went on to work as research and

communications officer; executive assistant; caucus outreach manager;

ministerial adviser; issues manager; and most recently, and perhaps his need

to leave, my senior ministerial adviser.

Would the House please join me in welcoming them and in congratulating

Brady on his very exciting next steps in life.

T. Shypitka: I’m super stoked today to introduce a couple of constituents from

Kootenay East, Denise Dunn-Reker and Melanie Wagner. They are from Elkford.

It’s the most northern community in Kootenay East. If you don’t know where

Elkford is, shame on you, but it is actually at the start of Highway 43 to

Sparwood. Some say it’s the end of Highway 43, but I say it’s the start of

Highway 43, a beautiful part of the world.

They’re here to see a boisterous question period, so let’s not let

them down. Would the House please welcome Melanie and Denise to the

House.

Tributes

DONALD DONG TOY NIP

J. Routledge: My neighbour, Donald Dong Toy Nip, passed away recently, and the

story of his life so reflects the history of this province.

Donald was born in China in 1931. At the age of 16, he immigrated

to Vancouver in 1948 with his mother, May Leong Shee Nip, because the

Chinese Exclusion Act was finally repealed in 1946. They were finally

able to join Donald’s father, Sow Poy Nip, in Canada, who had immigrated

decades earlier during the head tax era.

Once in Canada, Donald worked hard to create a good life for his

family, starting at the family grocery store, Eatmore Market, and then

at local canneries before moving on to work as a night foreman. Once

Donald and Esther had saved enough money, Donald became a general

contractor and built apartment buildings and Vancouver

Specials.

As he became more established, he often gave back to his

community, serving as the president of the Kwong Chow Benevolent

Association for 20 years. During this time, he helped the benevolent

association to raise capital to secure a building for their new

headquarters and to create boarding rooms for underserved pensioners. In

addition, Donald helped to create a small school in his home village in

China.

With daughters in teaching careers and becoming a huge supporter

of education, Donald became a pioneer in cultural and educational

development for UBC education students through immersive tours of

Vancouver’s Chinatown. By providing contacts and opening doors into the

community, he added a personal connection to their multicultural

studies.

Donald will always be remembered as a kind and generous man who

loved food, gardening and travel and who always made time to ask about

family and the precious things in life. At the age of 90, Donald Nip

passed away peacefully on February 26, surrounded by family in his

Burnaby home.

[1:55 p.m.]

Donald remains well loved and remembered by his wife, Esther; his

children — Judia, Gloria and Brian; and his many grandkids — one of

whom, Keefer Pelech, works in this precinct to support the Minister of

Education.

Introductions by Members

Hon. N. Simons: There are six people left in the gallery who haven’t been introduced,

and I want to take the opportunity to do so.

From the buildings here, from my office, I’d like to welcome Vivian

Thomas, communications director; Valerie McKnight, administrative

coordinator; Ebony Rindahl, administrative assistant; and Laura Parent, the

legislative assistant for my friend the member for Chilliwack and

In addition, I have two constituents who are part-time supporters of

mine, always watching my back — my two constituency assistants, Rob Hill

from the upper Sunshine Coast and Kim Tournat from the lower Sunshine Coast.

Rob’s a proud, energetic father of four. I think they’re all under eight or

something like that. Kim is the proud mom of Adrianna Tournat, executive

assistant with the Westbank First Nation.

I’m just so proud to have them here. They help…. Well, they try to

keep me out of trouble.

I want to thank them and welcome them here.

Tributes

WENDY YU

H. Yao: It is unfortunate to share sad news, which I just received a

little over 30 minutes ago. In the middle of our lunch, I was informed

that a friend of ours in the community, Wendy Yu, had passed

away.

She had always been well known. Whenever she was attending events,

she was the loudest person because of her laughter, her warmth and her

welcoming attitude. We didn’t ever need to find her; she’d always find

you. She’d hug you, encourage you and share her personal life

stories.

Unfortunately, I didn’t have a lot of time to prepare a script, so

I’m just going to read off some of the information provided by her

family. After a year of battling a rare, aggressive cancer, on May 20,

2022, Wendy Yu passed away. It was a long, tough battle where she

suffered and endured a lot, but she did not want to burden anyone else.

All she wished was for others to be happy, and in her final moments, she

just wanted peace.

She has left behind her two loving sons and her husband, Thomas

Yu, who attended her funeral service alone.

She will be missed but will never be forgotten.

Her family would like to thank Richmond Hospital’s supportive and

palliative team, as well as BCCH chemo and radiation oncologists for

their care and support.

Expressions of sympathy and memorial contributions may be sent to

Richmond Hospital Foundation.

Introductions by Members

L. Doerkson: I, too, wanted to take the opportunity, one, to welcome the Filipino

community to this beautiful building. It was great to be in the Hall of

Honour today and share in the pride that they were just absolutely beaming

with today as they received a beautiful proclamation from the

government.

Thank you for being here.

Two, I wanted to welcome one of our very own. Louise Denis is up in

the gallery today. She’s an amazing person who helps to keep our team

focused and on track.

Thank you very much, Louise.

A. Olsen: Today I would like to take a few minutes to acknowledge a constituency

advocate of mine, Jake Rees, who is in the precinct today and in the

gallery. Jake joined our constituency community office last summer. He’s

made the decision to go to university. I will not fault him for that, but I

would really just like to raise my hands to Jake for providing excellent

service to the people of Saanich North and the Islands. He had giant shoes

to fill, and he did it very, very well.

I would like to have all the members of the House please thank Jake,

on behalf of Saanich North and the Islands residents and constituents, for

his great service to our community.

HÍSW̱ḴE SIÁM.

Hon. L. Beare: The Minister of Social Development and Poverty Reduction is wrong.

There are two more people left in the House that need to be introduced, the

last two. We have with me today Kari Gunton, my executive assistant in the

Ministry of Citizens’ Services, and a new addition to our team in the

ministry, Sara Jonsson, our new administrative assistant. I’m so pleased to

have them both here. Will the House please make them welcome.

[2:00 p.m.]

R. Russell: I don’t often get a chance to disagree with the Minister of Citizens’

Services, but there are two more.

I have the privilege of introducing two residents from Oliver, Martin

Johansen and Melanie Zinger, to the House. Martin is also the mayor of

Oliver and a dedicated partner, here today to help us work through some of

the challenges with primary care with the ministry, with local governments

and with other stakeholders.

Please make them feel welcome.

S. Furstenau: In the gallery today are Saira Aujla and her daughter Jasmeet, who

came from Surrey. Would the House please make them most welcome.

J. Sims: I want to introduce a very special person today.

June is a very, very special month in my life and in my family’s life

as well. In 1971, I met a young man, a long-haired hippie wearing yellow

bell-bottoms and long hair. It was my first year at university, first time

away from home, and I fell in love with this young man. We got married, and

it was an interesting time, an India-born Sikh girl who was raised in

England in an Anglican school and then married a Catholic. The wedding was,

obviously, interesting.

I can tell you that our 51 years together have been a journey. I’m not

going to say it was always smooth sailing. Those of you who know me know it

couldn’t possibly have been smooth sailing. One thing I will tell you is

that the decision I made in 1971, when I said yes, was one of the very best

decisions I have ever made in my life. At that time entered into my life

Stephen, who has supported me unconditionally, unreservedly in every venture

I have taken on.

We have two beautiful children, Keeran and Michael Sims, and of

course, Keeran has given us three beautiful grandchildren and a beautiful

great granddaughter.

I’d like to think and I’d like to believe I am still the love of his

life. When I see him looking at little Alliya, who has just turned five, our

great granddaughter…. Then I have to look at him, and he goes: “I love you

both.”

Please join me in wishing my husband a 51st wedding anniversary — and

for the journey that we have done together.

Hon. M. Dean: I’ve spotted Sarah Gotto in the gallery. She used to be an

administrative assistant in my office, but she now works for the Minister of

Jobs, Economic Recovery and Innovation. He’s not here today.

I wanted to say thank you for all of your work, Sarah. He’s lucky to

have you.

She’s a resident of Langford–Juan de Fuca. What that means is she

travels through Esquimalt-Metchosin, from end to end, every day. She’s a

very special neighbour.

J. Sturdy: We all know how essential constituency assistants are in the work we

all do and how they’re really the backbone of constituency offices. I have

the pleasure to have the two of mine here today — Nicola Bentley, who has

been with me for almost as long as I’ve been a provincial elected official;

and Cameron McClure, who joined us last year and has proven to be a

tremendous asset for our team. They are joining my LA, Louise Denis. Make

them welcome, please.

Mr. Speaker: I think the only people who were not introduced are interns and the

press gallery members.

We welcome you all too.

[2:05 p.m.]

Introduction and

First Reading of Bills

BILL M210 — CORRECTION STATUTES

AMENDMENT ACT,

A. Olsen presented a bill intituled Correction Statutes Amendment

Act, 2022.

A. Olsen: I move that a bill intituled the Correction Statutes Amendment

Act, 2022, of which notice has been given in my name on the order paper,

be introduced and read a first time now.

The United Nations defines solitary confinement of more than 15

days as torture. The B.C. Court of Appeal ruled in 2019 that prolonged

and indefinite solitary confinement violates a prisoner’s rights to

life, liberty and security of the person under

section 7 of the

Charter.

Despite these findings, solitary confinement is commonly used in

this province. On any given day like today, there are 33 individuals in

solitary who have been there for longer than 15 days, some longer than

60 days. Both adults and youth are subjected to this torture.

Solitary confinement disproportionately impacts Indigenous people,

in particular Indigenous women and girls. Close to a quarter of the

people in solitary confinement in this province identify as Indigenous,

despite making up only 6 percent of our province’s population. In

February of this year, the Union of B.C. Indian Chiefs called solitary

confinement “a retraumatizing, abusive and colonial form of control over

Indigenous bodies.”

This bill seeks to prohibit the use of prolonged solitary

confinement and to change standards of living for people in the justice

system. This bill prohibits a person from being held in solitary

confinement if they are pregnant, at risk of self-harm or suicide, have

a prescribed disability or require medical observation.

Finally, this bill requires the provincial director of

correctional centres to publish annual, disaggregated statistics on the

number of individuals held in solitary confinement.

This bill follows the advocacy of the Union of B.C. Indian Chiefs,

the B.C. Ombudsperson, the B.C. Representative for Children and Youth

and a decision from the B.C. Court of Appeal.

I want to thank the Campaign for the Abolition of Solitary

Confinement for their advocacy and work to bring this to my

attention.

Thank you to the members of this chamber. I hope we have a chance

to debate it.

Mr. Speaker: The question is first reading of the bill.

Motion approved.

A. Olsen: I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second

reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Bill M210, Correction Statutes Amendment Act, 2022, introduced, read

a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second

reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

BILL M211 — WILDLIFE

AMENDMENT ACT

(N o . 2), 2022

T. Shypitka presented a bill intituled Wildlife Amend­ment Act

(No. 2), 2022.

T. Shypitka: I move that a bill intituled Wildlife Amendment Act (No. 2), 2022,

of which notice has been given in my name on the order paper, be

introduced and now read for a first time.

Throughout British Columbia, thousands of families rely on hunting

not only to feed themselves but to engage in social and cultural

practices that keep them connected to the land base they love so dearly.

This wide demographic of British Columbians knows firsthand how

important science-based wildlife management is to ensure healthy

wildlife populations.

Proper decisions surrounding wildlife management ensure wildlife

populations are sustainable for the future. It is critical that

transparent decisions on regulations are solely based on what is best

for wildlife populations and can be supported by all.

This bill, if passed, would lay the groundwork for an independent

funding model for wildlife and habitat management that is partially

distanced from the government. This would ensure that decisions on

regulations are in the best interest of wildlife populations in our

province and that funding is dedicated only to wildlife and habitat

conservation.

The funding model would be eligible to receive funding and revenue

from the different levels of government, including municipal,

provincial, federal and Indigenous. Here 100 percent of contributions

earned from the revenues of licences and fees associated with hunting

and other forms of land use — such as stakeholder groups, philanthropy

and industry — would be used only for wildlife and habitat

management.

Effective wildlife legislation is necessary to preserve our

wildlife populations and guarantee that regulations and restrictions

accurately reflect the science. This bill represents a foundational

element that will allow for better data collection, mapping and

identifying critical wildlife areas, among others. Such improvements, in

turn, will lead to science-based decision-making to protect wildlife and

habitat for generations to come.

I ask this House, from all sides, to join me in support of this

critical piece of legislation so that we can all get to work and protect

and encourage the growth of wildlife populations here in B.C.

Mr. Speaker: Members, the question is first reading of the bill.

Motion approved.

[2:10 p.m.]

T. Shypitka: I move the bill be placed on the order paper of the day for second

reading at the next sitting after today.

Bill M211, Wildlife Amendment Act (No. 2), 2022, introduced, read a

first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading

at the next sitting of the House after today.

Statements

(Standing Order 25B)

WORLD MILK DAY AND DAIRY FARMERS

M. Dykeman: It is a privilege to rise in the House today to recognize World

Milk Day. Today is an opportunity to recognize the importance of milk as

a global food and celebrate the dairy sector. Milk and dairy products

support the livelihoods of over one billion people around the

world.

When you support Canadian dairy, not only are you getting a local

product from Canadian dairy farmers, but you are supporting family

farms. Over 98 percent of Canadian dairy farms are family-owned and

-operated.

Dairy farming is also unquestionably important to our economy, one

of the largest agricultural sectors in the country contributing roughly

$20 billion to the country’s GDP each year.

And did you know that when you support Canadian dairy, you’re also

helping the environment? Canadian dairy farmers are committed to farming

in an environmentally conscious way, with emissions related to producing

one litre of Canadian milk being less than half the global

average.

In B.C., our dairy sector is strong, with 470 dairy farms

producing 890 million litres of B.C. milk annually, supporting 12,500

dairy industry jobs and contributing $1.225 billion to B.C.’s

economy.

In addition to thanking all the dairy farmers around the world on

today’s World Milk Day, I would like to say a special thank-you to dairy

farmers like Brian and Erin Anderson of Eagle Acres Dairy, David and

Nicole Davis of Davistead Farms, and Oeds and Nellie Smid of Pioneer

Holstein Dairy, along with their families, in my riding of Langley East,

who rise early every day and work late every night to make sure that we

have access to high-quality, nutritious, local milk products.

Thank you for the important work you do.

SUPPORTS TO LGBTQ+ YOUTH BY

FAMILY SERVICES OF THE

NORTH SHORE

K. Kirkpatrick: On June 28, 1969, police raided the Stonewall Inn, a gay club in

Greenwich Village, resulting in protests and riots. The LGBTQ+ community

demanded they be acknowledged and be able to live free from

discrimination and hostility.

Because of that date, June was chosen as Pride Month, and it’s a

chance for all of us to come together and celebrate the acceptance of

sexual diversity as well as shine a light on some of the issues facing

LGBTQ people today.

I’d like to talk about a critical issue facing LGBTQ+ youth and

the work that Family Services of the North Shore is doing to help

them.

LGBTQ+ youth are often victims of hate crime, bullying,

discrimination and are more likely to report suffering from depression,

anxiety or an eating disorder. We know that LGBTQ+ youth who feel

strongly supported by their families demonstrate better mental health

outcomes and have less risk when it comes to substance abuse, physical

health problems and self-esteem issues.

Family Services of the North Shore has recognized that need. In

2021, they supported over 500 LGBTQ+ youth and their parents with

counselling support, education and awareness activities through their

Proud2Be program. They offer weekly support groups for LGBTQ+ youth at

no cost and a weekly support group for parents of gender-diverse youth.

In response to COVID-19, they adapted their Proud2Be Gender Identity and

Sexual Orientation Conference, which is now a virtual education

event.

I am very proud to have this organization serving the people of my

riding and across British Columbia, and appreciate the opportunity to

celebrate their work.

Happy Pride Month.

AWARENESS OF DEAFBLINDNESS

B. Bailey: I’m honoured to acknowledge that June is Deafblind Awareness

Month. It’s also the birth month of one of history’s most famous

deafblind persons, Helen Keller.

The Canadian National Institute for the Blind estimates that there

are over 1,000 people living in British Columbia who have both

significant hearing and vision loss. By proclaiming June as Deafblind

Awareness Month, we have an opportunity to recognize those individuals

and to celebrate the many contributions that people with deafblindness

make to communities throughout our province.

[2:15 p.m.]

People who are deafblind can live full, meaningful lives as

independently as possible with the right supports in place, like

intervener services that act as communication bridges. Deafblindness is

a unique information-gathering disability that includes the dual sensory

loss of both sight and hearing. Intervener services assist people who

are deafblind so they can more fully access their communities and make

independent choices that are right for them.

Interveners have special training and skills to communicate with,

on behalf of people who are deafblind, by acting as their eyes and their

ears. This includes describing visual information, relaying auditory

information and alleviating social and environmental isolation.

Interveners make it easier for people who are deafblind to navigate the

many day-to-day activities that I’m sure many of us take for granted —

grocery shopping, banking, filling out forms or even attending a

wedding.

These critical services ensure that people with deafblindness can

face the day confident that their thoughts and ideas will be heard and

understood. Raising awareness about deafblindness is an important part

of shifting attitudes and removing barriers so that we can build a more

accessible and inclusive province for everyone.

I’d like to invite all members to join me and everyone in British

Columbia in recognizing June as Deafblind Awareness Month as government

continues to work with people with disabilities to identify, remove and

INDIGENOUS HISTORY

AND

RECONCILIATION

M. Lee: June is also National Indigenous History Month. This is an

opportunity, as British Columbians and as Canadians, to honour and

reflect on the living histories of Indigenous peoples, who have lived on

these lands since time immemorial. This is also a time for us to

recommit ourselves to uphold our shared responsibility to both truth and

reconciliation.

We share territory with 204 distinct nations with a rich mosaic of

languages and cultures. These nations have an incredible heritage and

ancient traditions that they have preserved for countless generations,

even in the face of government-led attempts to assimilate Indigenous

peoples.

Our province has a horrific history of displacement, disposition

and acts of violence committed against Indigenous people. We must

remember, however, that this is the history not of Indigenous peoples

but rather our history with Indigenous peoples.

Elders and knowledge-keepers remind us of the time before contact

when Indigenous nations lived in a dynamic and sophisticated society

with vast trade networks that stretched across Turtle Island. These

nations have their own histories that enrich and inform their futures

and our future with them.

We must take the time to learn their history and enrich our

understanding of the lands we now share with Indigenous peoples. Now is

our opportunity to listen carefully, not only with our ears but with our

hearts. We must not repeat the mistakes of the past, and we must work

together with Indigenous peoples to build a beautiful and prosperous

future together.

We have a long intergenerational journey of healing ahead of us,

and I hope we can all take the time to reflect on our history, our

failings and the new promise of our shared future together.

SUMMER REOPENING AND SENSE OF HOPE

R. Singh: We are just a few weeks away from summer, and this year there is

something different about it. This year there is relief in the air, and

hope.

The restaurants and businesses are teeming with patrons again.

Outdoor spaces are being frequented more than they have been.

Invitations to public and private events have started to roll in again.

The henna on my hands is the evidence of the many wedding invites that I

am getting. Even the ferry ride to and from Victoria of late is a

different experience than what it has been in the last two

years.

Moreover, finally this year grads are being organized at schools,

and students will finally get together in person and share that pivotal

moment of their schooling experience. Some of my friends have recently

told me how excited their children are about it, and I am also very

excited for them.

There is also the possibility of travel, within B.C. and outside.

Many have looked forward to this opportunity to rinse away their

pandemic fatigue. With all these possibilities comes hope, and there are

not many other remedies more important than that to help us recover from

the last 27 months. Hope is that fuel that binds and nudges us forward

towards a better future.

[2:20 p.m.]

On the face of it, two years might not seem much, but the last two

in particular have seemed strangely long. But it heartens me to see that

people in our beautiful province, despite challenges, are actively

participating in life and the economy.

This summer seems like it will be our summer of hope. I, for one,

am looking forward to what it brings.

ALS AWARENESS

AND SUPPORT

ORGANIZATIONS

S. Bond: June also marks the beginning of ALS Awareness Month.

ALS, as we know, is a disease that approximately 1,000 Canadians

will be diagnosed with this year alone. ALS gradually paralyses those

affected as the brain stops being able to communicate with the muscles

of the body. On top of the overwhelming physical and emotional burden,

British Columbians diagnosed with ALS also deal with hidden challenges

like financial costs, as the expense of treatment, care, equipment and

lost income can cost families hundreds of thousands of

dollars.

ALS has no cure yet. That’s where we come in. While June is about

raising awareness, it is also about honouring and supporting

organizations like the ALS Society of B.C. I want to mention Stephanie

Marshall-White, who is part of that organization and has courageously

shared the story of the loss of her own mom.

Other organizations like ALS Action Canada help to give a voice to

people living with ALS. It funds research and strives every day to find

a cure and end ALS once and for all.

The ALS Society’s Move to Cure ALS initiative will be taking place

across British Columbia and the Yukon throughout June, with the proceeds

going toward ALS research through the society’s Project Hope and other

programs that enhance the quality and life of people living with

ALS.

This month landmarks, including the iconic Mr. PG in Prince

George, will be lit up with the colour purple to show support for ALS

Awareness Month. We can all do our part by volunteering or raising

awareness in our own communities.

With groundbreaking initiatives like Project Hope on the horizon

for British Columbians with ALS, there is optimism for the

future.

I know that all members will want to join me this month in

recognizing ALS so we can help find a cure and create a world where ALS

is no longer fatal.

Oral Questions

AMBULANCE SERVICE

AND SERVICE

MANAGEMENT

K. Falcon: By any measure, we’re in the midst of a health care crisis.

Hospitals are in chaos. Emergency rooms are shutting down right across

the province. One in five British Columbians cannot access a family

physician. For those that try to go to a walk-in clinic, they’re facing

the longest wait times in the country right here in British

Columbia.

And it gets worse. When people have to call an ambulance, all too

often nobody shows up for hours, in many cases.

Now, a year ago, after the NDP government’s complete failure to

respond adequately to the heatwave, the NDP did what they typically do.

They made another announcement. But it has proven once again to be all

rhetoric — no results.

That’s not me saying that. That’s according to Troy Clifford, the

president of the Ambulance Paramedics, who said: “The other day in the

whole Lower Mainland, 42 percent of the ambulances that are supposed to

be on the road were stopped.”

My question to the Premier is this. Why on earth is the Premier

plunging forward with his billion-dollar vanity museum project at a time

when British Columbians can’t even access basic health care

services?

Hon. J. Horgan: I thank the Leader of the Opposition for his question. I do

acknowledge that, as we’re coming out of a global pandemic that has

gripped us for the past two years, there are significant challenges,

particularly when it comes to delivery of the number one program not

just here in British Columbia but across the country, that program that

identifies us as distinct from our southern neighbours. That’s our

publicly funded health care system.

[2:25 p.m.]

I had the opportunity last week to be with western Premiers in

Regina, the birthplace of public health care. The challenges that we’re

facing in British Columbia are duplicated right across the

country.

I know the member knows this. He’s a former Health Minister. He’s

a former Finance Minister. He appreciates the challenge of meeting

competing interests with limited resources.

That’s why not just this province but provinces from coast to

coast to coast have been focused on encouraging the federal government

to wake up to the challenges that we’re facing here in B.C. and in every

other province and territory by putting more money into the Canada

health transfer, which is not an accounting process. This is about

funding adequately the services that people expect to

receive.

The global pandemic transformed how we looked at our health care

system. It enabled us to celebrate the workers that were in it, that

went to work each and every day, sometimes for double shifts, to protect

their neighbours, their friends and their colleagues. We want to ensure

that we have the resources to get there, to help them and hold them

where they are so that we can get the services we need.

To do that, we need the federal government to come to the table.

That’s what the Premiers have been asking for. I know that I have the

support on this side of the House. I hope I have the support on that

side of the House as well.

Mr. Speaker: Leader of the Official Opposition, supplemental.

K. Falcon: Well, actually, Mr. Premier, I think what’s important are results.

Now, it’s easy to point fingers and to try and blame everyone else for

all the crises that we’re seeing in the health care system. But at the

end of the day, you’re in the second term of your government, and people

expect results, not excuses.

Now, over 600 people died in that heatwave last year, and the

Premier infamously said: “Fatalities are a part of life.” Then shortly

thereafter, out came an NDP announcement promising that they were going

to do better with the ambulance service, which had totally collapsed

during that crisis.

Once again, the head of the Ambulance Paramedics says: “Since last

summer, it has not translated, because we’re no better off today than we

were then.”

As we so often hear in this place, the NDP government, Premier,

confuses announcements with action. But they’re not; they’re just

announcements. What the public sees are terrible results when they want

action.

My question again to the Premier — a direct answer, please: why is

going forward with your billion-dollar vanity museum project more

important than getting people the ambulance service they

deserve?

Hon. J. Horgan: The member would know…. He wasn’t in this place, but I’m sure he

was reading the papers. He would know that the single largest investment

in rehabilitating our ambulance service was during the global pandemic,

$66 million in rural and remote. Virtually all of the members on that

side of House were able to benefit from that because of the isolation

that their families and their communities live in.

We put more boots on the ground in rural communities than was done

over 16 years by the former group. And we’ve invested in our urban

centres as well, working with firefighters, working with paramedics to

ensure that the first people to get to a scene can help those

individuals.

We have challenges. It would be ridiculous to say otherwise. But

we are not in the dire crisis that the member suggests because of

something that’s happened in the past two years.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Hon. J. Horgan: This has been building over the past 20 years, 16 of which was

when he was on this side of the House.

S. Bond: We certainly know that what’s happening in our province is much

more than simply a challenge, as the Premier would describe it. We are

talking about life or death. In fact, we saw in this province, much to

our horror, 600 vulnerable people, mostly frail elderly British

Columbians, lose their lives during the heatwave last summer. Many of

them called 911, begging for help, and because the system was

overwhelmed, that help didn’t come.

Here’s what Troy Clifford had to say, again after another

announcement from this government: “The minister made some significant

announcements last July and in December that we really haven’t seen come

to fruition.” Those are the words of front-line health care

workers.

[2:30 p.m.]

Instead of fixing the problem, what the Premier decided his number

one priority was, was a billion-dollar vanity museum project, instead of

delivering on his commitment to British Columbians that when they dial

911, an ambulance will show up.

Will he today do the right thing, shelve his billion-dollar vanity

project and put the money where it belongs — into the health care

system?

Hon. A. Dix: It is essential, in B.C., that when people need ambulance service

and they call 911, they get ambulance service. That’s why we’ve been

making fundamental changes in that ambulance service. Let me detail some

of them.

We’ve taken the budget of the ambulance service, the largest

increase of any part of health care in the period, from $424 million to

$559 million in three years. Last summer we announced new full-time

positions in urban areas. They’ve all been filled. We announced new

part-time and full-time positions in rural and remote communities.

They’ve all been filled.

That’s the action that’s required. We’ve also transformed that

system. People may find this hard to believe, but in 2017, 67 percent of

ambulance paramedics were casual in B.C. This is not consistent with

what’s required of a modern ambulance service. We have gone about

changing that, and now 55 percent of ambulance paramedics are permanent,

a transformative change that needs to continue.

Mr. Speaker: Member for Prince George–Valemount, supplemental.

S. Bond: Well, I think the minister knows that everyone in this House

agrees that when you call an ambulance in the province of British

Columbia, you should actually get one. The fact of the matter is…. The

minister knows you can make all the announcements you want, but if the

ambulance doesn’t show up, no one is going to believe a word that he

says.

Let’s look at the results. There are none. We’ve actually been

told that on May 28, there was only one staffed ambulance — one — in

Prince George. None in Vanderhoof, McBride, Bear Lake, Quesnel or Hixon.

For the minister’s reference, that is an area larger than all of

Vancouver Island. Those are the results that are being garnered under

this minister’s leadership.

To the Premier, is it acceptable that the people who live in that

part of British Columbia had one staffed ambulance and instead, his

priority is a $1 billion vanity museum project?

Hon. A. Dix: After a long, long time when this wasn’t the case, B.C. emergency

health services has been a fundamental priority. The highest increases

in spending, the addition….

Interjections.

Hon. A. Dix: Hon. Speaker, you know, it’s a serious subject. I’m into my third

sentence, and the Leader of the Opposition…

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Hon. A. Dix: …who’d called health workers bureaucrats — and I don’t think he

meant it in a complimentary way — on Monday is already

interrupting.

This is a very significant issue. The investment in rural

ambulance services, in particular, has been significant. For example, on

April 29, 24 rural ambulance stations converted to full-time, 24-hour

paramedic staffing — as was advocated, in some of those cases, by

members of the opposition.

I met with members of the opposition, and we added to that list,

because our priority is ensuring that when you call 911, you get an

ambulance. That is what we’re going to continue to do.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

ACCESS BY GWA’SALA-’NAKWAXDA’XW

NATIONS TO CHILD

WELFARE RECORDS

A. Olsen: Over the last few weeks, this B.C. NDP government has failed to

convince British Columbians that the museum project is the noble venture

that they claim it to be.

We know that those who control the information control the

storytelling and control the narratives. Residential and day schools and

museums were all tools used by Crown governments to dominate and

subordinate Indigenous people. The goal expressed by the architects of

the Indian Act a century ago was to assimilate Indigenous people and

annihilate our cultures.

Fast forward to today. All the MLAs in this chamber received a

desperate letter from the Gwa’sala-’Nakwaxda’xw council. They’re moving

forward under the federal legislation to take back control and

jurisdiction over their children and families, based on their own

cultural laws.

[2:35 p.m.]

They’ve outlined horrific abuses at the hands of the Ministry of

Children and Family Development. Their relatives have asked for access

to their files. They have stated clearly that these are their files,

about their children and families. Their cultural laws require them to

carefully research their history of each member, to do namings and other

cultural ceremonies.

Now, the ministry has important parts of these histories that they

will not share with them. They also need the files to prepare their

costing models and develop their programs and services in a culturally

based way to address past gaps and problems. How can anyone build better

programs without access to past files and data?

My question is to the Premier. He positions himself as a warrior

of reconciliation. Why is he allowing his government to continue with

this data colonialism?

Hon. M. Dean: I do want to acknowledge that for far too long, the system of

government in British Columbia has been overinvolved in the lives of

Indigenous children and youth and families. Indigenous children and

youth have been overrepresented in the child welfare system.

Our government is committed to reconciliation, and in my ministry

we are absolutely committed to changing that. We know the harm that that

has caused for Indigenous children, youth and families for generations.

It’s very important that we change the whole of the system.

We are absolutely committed to working with nations to exercise

their inherent jurisdiction. I’ve recently been visiting nations that

are at different stages in exercising their inherent jurisdiction. We

and we’re working with them, following their path and following their

timelines as well.

We’re doing the same with Gwa’sala-’Nakwaxda’xw as well. I

actually had very senior staff in the community all day on Monday of

this week. We’re committed to a new way of working together. We have the

agreement of the community to continue working together to support them

in how they want to exercise their inherent jurisdiction. There’s a lot

more work to do. We are absolutely committed to doing it, and doing it

in partnership.

Mr. Speaker: Member for Saanich North and the Islands, supplemental.

A. Olsen: Honestly, that response is terrible. The reality of it is that

this nation has been trying to get access to historical files about the

mistreatment of their members from the Ministry of Children and Family

Development, and they have been blocked by this government. The exchange

of letters between the nation and this B.C. NDP government is painful to

read. The stories of terrible abuses at the hands of that ministry are

difficult to comprehend.

The nation was told: “The deputy director of child welfare has

communicated his decision to not disclose complete records.” That’s what

the nation has been told.

The Gwa’sala-’Nakwaxda’xw responded, saying that the provincial

Crown continues to apply a specifically narrow

interpretation of the law

that goes against the commitment from the Minister of Children and

Family Development.

On October 20, 2021, the minister made a commitment. The

minister’s deputy minister, Allison Bond, also made a commitment,

directly contravening their own commitments to this nation. The MCFD and

this B.C. NDP government have a culture of withholding.

Read the news today, and see another story of where MCFD is

withholding money from an Indigenous family looking after their

grandchildren. They withhold children until they determine whether the

Indigenous mother is capable, based on their own standards.

The Premier’s legacy of this museum is actually more of the same.

They claim to be different, but this is more of the same behaviour from

this government. This is not a legal or privacy issue that I’m talking

about today. The current legislation allows provincial directors to

provide information to First Nations. This can’t be a privacy issue,

because this is about returning information about First Nations back to

First Nations.

[2:40 p.m.]

My question is again to the Premier, and I hope he will stand up

and respond. Is he just going to stand by and allow his government to

continue to withhold vital information from Indigenous nations which are

rightfully taking back jurisdiction over their child welfare?

Hon. J. Horgan: I thank the member for his passion about this issue. He will know

that this government has been transformative when it comes to working

with Indigenous peoples. Over the past five years, we have brought

forward landmark legislation, supported by all members of this House,

with respect to the declaration on the rights of Indigenous peoples. We

have been working through the Ministry of Children and Family

Development to right the historic wrongs that he talks about, and if

there are issues today that require more in-depth discussion, I am quite

prepared to have that with the member.

The challenges that Indigenous peoples face in this province are

not something that happened yesterday. It’s been going on since the

expansion of Europe and colonization came to this great province that we

call home and we share with Indigenous peoples — 204 Indigenous distinct

nations, as the member from Langara said in his statement

today.

I appreciate the passion of the member. I’m happy to sit down with

him and look into the details that he’s raised in the House today. But

let’s leave the public with a sense that they can have comfort that all

of the people in this House, 87 members, are committed to redressing the

wrongs of the past, and we do that by taking steps forward.

Will we stumble? Will we make mistakes? Yes, we will. But we

should be doing it together in a spirit of cooperation and

collaboration. If we can’t cooperate and collaborate here, it’s little

wonder that Indigenous peoples don’t support us as we go into their

communities.

GOVERNMENT ACTION ON

ISSUES IN HEALTH CARE

SYSTEM

R. Merrifield: It’s time. It’s time for this Premier and this minister to admit

that we are in a health care crisis. Thank goodness for our health care

workers, and thank goodness that they actually admit the crisis and are

here. They’re speaking out.

Dr. Jeffrey Eppler is an emergency physician at Kelowna General

Hospital. Yesterday he spoke about the hospital overflowing with more

patients than they even had in available stretchers and with people

suffering because they’re in hallways and alcoves. He says: “I have

never seen morale lower than it is now, and I’ve never seen such

turnover.”

Why on earth is the Premier spending a billion dollars on a vanity

museum project when our health care system is falling apart?

Hon. A. Dix: As the member knows, the health care system and the extraordinary

health care workers around British Columbia have responded, I think, in

a remarkable way to two public health emergencies and all of the

challenges facing health care. They have, I think, on behalf of people

in B.C., achieved an enormous amount.

That’s in Kelowna, where diagnostic care has been expanded for all

people and for cancer patients, where we’ve reduced wait times in a

pandemic for surgeries, where we have gone from eighth place to first

place in orthopedic surgeries, where we’ve increased access to

diagnostic care in every health authority — most importantly, in

Interior Health.

Right now, of course, the health care system continues to face

some fundamental challenges, one of which is that there are right now,

because of COVID-19, dramatically more people off sick than there were

in 2021, in 2020 and, of course, before the pandemic in 2019, which

leads to challenges every single day.

Last week there were between 15,000 and 16,000 people who missed

at least one day. I think it is remarkable that in that week, that week

where health care workers faced such incredible challenges, they

delivered such a very high level of service.

I hear and speak to health care workers every single day. It’s why

we have added 32,000 health care workers in the last two years and why

we’re going to continue to add resources to support our health care

workers who have done a remarkable job in difficult times.

R. Merrifield: I laud…. I sing the praises of every single health care worker in

this province. They have done extraordinary things, and now they are

speaking out, because they are tired. They are giving us the warning

signs and sounding the alarm bell that our health care system is

failing.

[2:45 p.m.]

Dr. Eppler said yesterday that he is angry about what he called

the government’s false narrative and the untruth being spread. He says:

“I don’t know a single practising emergency physician that really feels

that UPCCs are the solution. To present it as a solution to our health

care ills is simplistic and actually dishonest on the part of the

government.”

Only in NDP-land is everything okay with our health care

system.

Why is the Premier doubling down on a billion-dollar vanity museum

project at a time when our health care system is in crisis?

Hon. A. Dix: Members of the House will know this, because they may be more

familiar with this period than I am. From 2003 to 2017, the number of

people without a family practice doctor in B.C. doubled, in that period.

A promise was made in 2010 to provide everybody with a family practice

doctor, as it turns out, by the Leader of the Opposition when he was the

Minister of Health. That plan was abandoned in three years.

We are taking significant action to support primary care across

B.C., and at the core of that action in Kelowna are primary care

networks, which were developed in concert with divisions of family

practice — in other words, with family physicians, 52 full-time

staff.

The member refers to UPCCs. Well, hon. Speaker, we’ve gone through

a period in the pandemic where the majority of visits to family

physicians were in-person to a period where the vast majority were

virtual.

UPCCs in that period played a fundamental role and an important

role in assisting people, 1.3 million visits. At the Kelowna UPCC, that

number was 85,000 visits up to March 3. At the Kelowna UPCC, which has

25 positions and 25 positions filled, people have come to the UPCC to

provide support. But it is only part of the primary care network

solution and only part of the response to the challenges facing acute

care.

That’s why, in every area of health care, we’ve added resources

and staff in this dramatic period of pandemic — 32,000 additional staff

in long-term care, support for diagnostic care, support in acute care

and support in primary care. We need to continue to do more to support,

in particular, our family physicians in providing service in the

community.

P. Milobar: Mr. Speaker, even the minister’s own team isn’t buying it anymore.

The reality is that the minister is refusing to listen to health care

workers of what’s really going on. UPCCs are a great example, because if

he actually talked to health care workers, he’d know that within the

health care system right now, they’re called oopsies, because they’re

not working. That’s what the health care workers are calling them. Up

until two weeks ago, that was the big flagship by this minister about

what was going to solve all of the health care woes.

The reality is that our health care system is in complete crisis

mode right now. Royal Inland Hospital is probably, perhaps, the worst

example of just how bad things can get. This is what one nurse says:

“Our hospital is on fire. The staffing shortage, downplayed by

administration, is in full crisis.”

The minister needs to start actually listening. The Premier needs

to start acknowledging and listening to what the internal workers, the

front care health workers that they profess to care about and honour,

are actually saying, not regurgitate speaking points.

Will the Premier cancel his $1 billion vanity museum project and

actually fix the hospital system?

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Shhh. Shhh.

P. Milobar: That appears to be funny, but I’ll wait for an answer.

Hon. A. Dix: Well, I think our health care teams in Kamloops, our health care

teams at Royal Inland Hospital have been through the most difficult year

that health care has ever seen. We had the COVID-19 pandemic, which

profoundly affects Kamloops and continues to profoundly affect Kamloops.

They had the impact of the heat dome, of wildfires, of floods. Health

care workers literally moved hundreds of seniors from one community to

other communities in long-term care. This has been an exceptional and

difficult time.

[2:50 p.m.]

In the 2021 year, 200 nurses were hired at Royal Inland Hospital.

A significant number more have been hired this year. We have a dedicated

team to address staffing issues at that hospital, and we are hiring

regularly.

As the new tower opens and it’s completed on time, that new

hospital will be adding new nursing staff to that hospital.

Yes, we’ve added staff to all of the long-term-care homes, all of

which were below standard when I became Minister of Health. We’ve raised

the standard of health care workers. We’ve brought contracts back into

the public system. And we got rid of Bills 29 and 94, which were a

blight on the health care system.

T. Stone: Well, day after day, we raise these issues here in the

Legislature. Day after day, health care workers at hospitals — well, in

hospitals and outside hospitals — are raising the alarm bells and are

expressing to this minister just what a crisis the system is actually

in. But day after day, all that British Columbians hear, all that health

care workers hear, all we hear in this chamber is a self-congratulatory

pat on the back for extraordinary results that the minister seems to be

under this illusion or delusion are actually happening in the province.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Now, what’s happening in hospitals across B.C. — whether you look

at Northern Health, whether you look here on Vancouver Island, whether

you look in the Lower Mainland…. What’s happening is dire, and it’s

inexcusable. The situation at Royal Inland Hospital — the minister

should know this well — is symbolic, frankly, of what’s happening around

the province. There are massive staff shortages. Over the next two

months, there are 20,000 unfilled shift hours in the ER and the

ICU.

There’s an overflowing emergency room. There are frequent

diversions of patients to other hospitals. There’s a temporary closure

of the pediatrics unit, the permanent closure of the coronary care unit

and a lack of operating room time, which is resulting in an increasing

number of surgeries being done by Kamloops surgeons on Kamloops patients

at Kelowna General Hospital. All of this has resulted in a toxic work

environment.

Communities right across the province like Chetwynd have watched

as patient diversions have become more and more common. Other

communities watch their ERs close because of chronic staffing shortages.

When frequent ER closures happen in rural communities like Clearwater or

Ashcroft, it only puts more pressure on already overwhelmed hospitals

like Royal Inland in Kamloops.

Health care workers are saying this is not sustainable. Health

care workers are crying out for help.

The question is this. When will the Premier listen to these health

care workers, and will he put an end to the rhetoric, and when will he

direct his Health Minister to take the urgent action that’s required to

fix the crisis in health care so British Columbians can get the care

that they need when they need it?

Hon. A. Dix: I would say to the member that for all of my time as Minister of

Health, we’ve been working on behalf of patients and health care

workers. We’ve made some fundamental changes, and we’ve faced some

extra­ordinary challenges.

The members know this. They know it in Kamloops. Every time that I

speak of the situation at Royal Inland Hospital and the challenges faced

by doctors and nurses and health sciences professionals and health care

workers there, I acknowledge how challenging these times are and the

actions we need to take to deal with that.

So what have we done? We’ve built the largest residency program

for doctors in B.C.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Shhh. Shhh.

Hon. A. Dix: Well, the Leader of the Opposition may oppose that. I’ll be

interested to see what he proposes.

We’ve added nursing spaces. At Royal Inland Hospital, we have a

dedicated team for recruitment. We’ve had 200 nurses, in 2021, added to

Royal Inland Hospital.

I will tell you that no hospital in Canada has faced the pressure

at Royal Inland Hospital. We have currently, in Interior Health, a rate

of absence, because of COVID-19, of approximately 11 percent. Eleven

percent of staff missed at least one day last week. That ordinarily

would be 6 percent, and that presents real challenges on the

ground.

[2:55 p.m.]

I’m proud of our teams and the care they’ve provided to people

around British Columbia in this time. I’m proud of our health care

workers. It’s why we have always given them priority, and we will

continue to give them priority as they provide care to patients across

British Columbia.

[End of question period.]

Tributes

MIKE BAER

Mr. Speaker: Members, I rise today to acknowledge Mike Baer on his retirement

as Hansard audio operations supervisor.

Testing, testing. Mike, can you hear us?

Mike is well known to many of us in the chamber. When he is on the

console, he is making sure our words are recorded properly and clearly.

He is well known as being a sound perfectionist.

Many of us have gotten to know Mike well when our committees have

travelled throughout the province. Mike is usually there guarding our

sound levels, clarity and tone so that our words can be transcribed

faithfully for the historical record. However, you may also recognize

Mike’s mellow baritone voice, which has graced the narration for many of

the Legislative Assembly’s training and informational videos.

Mike has devoted his career to audio and worked with sound

production design, recording and mixing since he began his career in

1983 with CHEK television. He went on to also work internationally with

sound crews at the Barcelona and Atlanta Olympic Games before coming to

Hansard and the Legislative Assembly.

On behalf of all hon. members, Mike, I wish you every success in

your retirement and thank you for your contributions to the Legislative

Assembly throughout the years.

Tabling Documents

Hon. D. Eby: I rise to present the Crown Proceeding Act report for the fiscal year

ended March 31, 2021.

Petitions

M. Elmore: I have a petition to present.

We have here, in the gallery, members of One Filipino Cooperative and

also the One Housing Society of British Columbia. They have submitted a

petition today. They have members numbering over 500, and they have gathered

their voices and supporters to speak their truth as a community to be heard

on matters of critical importance to them.

The first priority is on services for seniors and health care and

support workers who provide long-term care. They’re advocating for workers’

rights in the long-term-care field, assisted living and hospitals, also

advocating for permanent residency for caregivers and home support

workers.

As well, they are petitioning on affordable home ownership, on access

to rental social housing, for support for affordable housing for seniors and

also support for their projects to provide affordable, secure and safe

rental housing, social housing for their members.

Orders of the Day

Hon. M. Farnworth: In this chamber, I call the estimates for the Office of the

Premier.

In

Section A, in the Douglas Fir Room, I call continued estimates debate

for the Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure. After that, it will be

followed by the estimates of the Ministry of Social Development and Poverty

Reduction, and after that, it will be followed by the estimates for the Ministry

of Public Safety and Solicitor General.

Committee of Supply

ESTIMATES: OFFICE OF THE PREMIER

The House in Committee of Supply (Section B);

S. Chandra Herbert in the chair.

The committee met at 2:59 p.m.

The Chair: Thank you, Members. We will take a short recess, and we’ll

resume with the Premier’s estimates shortly. Thank you very

much.

The committee recessed from 2:59 p.m. to 3:06 p.m.

[S. Chandra Herbert in the chair.]

On Vote 11: Office of the Premier, $14,692,000.

Hon. J. Horgan: As we begin the budget estimates for the Premier’s office for the

year ahead, I want to reflect a little bit on the year we’ve just come

through. I think all British Columbians would acknowledge that this has

been the most extraordinary of times. It has been a year past of floods,

of pestilence, of heat domes, of extraordinary events in the natural

environment as well as the challenges we faced in the delivery of

services, as we’ve remained in place, separated from our loved ones,

from our fellow workers, trying to get through a global pandemic. But

through it we have come.

We still have a distance to travel, but as each month goes by,

more and more activities are taking place, and more and more people are

feeling comfortable in their communities. I encourage all of those who

still have concerns to take the steps that have been suggested by our

public health officials to protect themselves as they go about their

daily lives. We have to carry on, and if we’ve learned anything as a

community, it is the resilience of British Columbia and British

Columbians.

The natural environment has been beset over the past five years,

since I had the honour of being sworn in as Premier: three of the worst

fire seasons in our history, unprecedented floods in the fall and in the

spring in different parts of the province. The wildfire seasons have

been longer and more intense, and of course last year the horrific,

complete elimination of the town of Lytton will forever be ingrained in

the minds of British Columbians — certainly, those who had homes in

Lytton and in the First Nations, the First Peoples who have been at the

crossroads of the Fraser and the Thompson since time

immemorial.

These have been extraordinary times, and we have seen

unprecedented cooperation and collaboration in this place, within

communities and, indeed, across the country. Through the pandemic, I met

with other Premiers and the Prime Minister somewhere in the

neighbourhood of 45 times, which would not have happened in the normal

course of events. In those meetings, most of them virtual — in fact, all

of them virtual — relationships were built, and understandings of the

diversity of the country were better understood.

The Prime Minister and the federal government’s acknowledgment of

the need to have programs stabilized, whether it be our public transit

system in British Columbia, which is the envy of many provinces. With

almost zero ridership, the need to ensure that we protected those

institutions, whether it be B.C. Transit or TransLink, was imperative.

The federal government stepped up with significant investments to

continue to protect those vital public services.

[3:10 p.m.]

We stepped up as well to protect businesses that were affected,

mostly in the hospitality sector, where customers just stopped showing

up, for all of the reasons we know so well now. At the time, running a

business — whether you were doing that in Squamish, in Dawson Creek, in

Kamloops or here on the Island or in the Lower Mainland — there was a

desire government programs to be stood up quickly to meet those

challenges.

I want to just pay tribute to the professional public service here

in British Columbia, and also in municipalities across the province, who

did extraordinary things — things that governments had never had to do

before, and rather than say, “We have never done this before,” people

stepped up to get the work done. That, I believe, is critically

important to the narrative of the past year, the past two years —

indeed, the past five years.

As we welcome the new Leader of the Opposition to his first budget

estimates on that side of the House, I’m hopeful that we can have a

collaborative engagement, as we did with the acting Leader of the

Opposition in previous iterations of these debates. There is an

opportunity here for transparency. There’s an opportunity here for us to

understand each other.

The good news is that the Leader of the Opposition does have

experience in government, and I’m hopeful that he’ll recall that time. I

know I’ll reflect on some of those moments in my remarks as the hours go

by. But it is important to recognize — I think the public gets this, and

it brings us back to this extraordinary two-year period — that the

challenges that we face today are real. The challenges that we have to

collectively address are real. But they didn’t just arrive last week.

They didn’t arrive last month, and the solutions won’t be here tomorrow

or the day after that.

Government is hard work. Making sure we fill the gaps in people’s

lives as a result of the impacts of the natural disasters that we’ve

been beset with and, of course, the impacts of the global pandemic are

going to take time to figure out. But I’m up to the task.

I’m hopeful that the opposition is up to the task, and working

together, we can highlight those areas where we need to lean in and,

also, again, speak to all British Columbians with one voice, giving them

the confidence that they need to know that whether we reside in the

North, in the Kootenays, in the Interior, in the Lower Mainland or on

the Island, we’re all in this together. That’s what got us through the

pandemic, and that’s what will get us through the recovery as

well.

I want to go back to the federal government for a moment, because

the great Canadian experiment is always in flux. There’s always

movement. I have been observing politics and government for what’s

turning out to be decades now. Throughout that time, I’ve seen highs and

lows in the delivery of services. I’ve seen highs and lows in

cooperation and collaboration across various jurisdictions and different

orders of government.

All of that is fine for an academic debate. All of that is fine

for back-and-forth in this House, but all of us know that back home

people are getting on with their lives, and their expectation is that we

will have our partisan disagreements, but at the end of the day, the

people that I represent and the people that are represented by members

right across this House have an expectation that we are going to put

down our partisan clubs and focus on the things that matter to

them.

We will have disagreements over the next number of hours. I get

that. But I’m hopeful that over the time that people are observing this

or reading the Hansard record when it’s published and reviewed

by the chair and others to ensure its accuracy…. When people review and

reflect upon the engagement we’re going to have today, I’m hopeful that

we will all come out better for the effort and that the public will have

a sense of confidence that we are here doing their business, not

settling petty partisan squabbles that may go back a year or two years

or ten years.

What we need to do today, I believe, and what we need to do

tomorrow is focus on the needs of the people we represent, and that’s

what I’m prepared to do for the rest of the afternoon, and I’m hopeful

the opposition is feeling the same way.

K. Falcon: Thank you for the comments of the Premier. Given the delayed

start, I will try to be succinct in my questions to the Premier, and I

hope that the Premier will join me in that effort to provide succinct

answers. We’ve got a lot of material to cover, and I’ll do my best to

get through it.

The Premier won’t have to worry. I’m not going to spend a lot of

time here talking about things in the past, unless it’s relevant to the

questions.

[3:15 p.m.]

I do want to acknowledge that, yes, the Premier and government

have faced extraordinary events but remind him, too, that extraordinary

events require extraordinary leadership. As a former minister in

government, over 12 years, that faced things like a global economic

meltdown, forest fires, SARS, H1N1, that’s just the reality of being in

government. You have to deal with the challenges that you are

facing.

One thing that the Premier and I can certainly agree on is that an

outstanding public service, especially given clear direction and asked

to execute on behalf of a government with a focus, performs

extraordinarily well in British Columbia. In all my ministries and all

my time in government, I’ve never had anything but the highest of

respect for the public servants who make things work. But as I say, I

also learned that those public servants require leadership and clear

direction, because in the absence of clear direction, there’s just

process.

Today, Premier, I’m going to start off…. I’d like to talk a little

bit about the challenge that British Columbians are facing. I want to

juxtaposition that against some of the decisions that the Premier and

his government are making, which to me offer a real dissonance between

what folks are dealing with in their everyday lives and the government’s

free-wheeling ways in the spending of money, which I think is

inconsistent with what’s happening for most British

Columbians.

I want to start by recognizing that a recent survey determined

that nearly half of British Columbians are only $200 away from being

able to pay their bills at the end of the month. I just want us to think

about that for a moment, because those are the same British Columbians

that when they’re going out to fill their car with gas and are

discovering that gas prices are up more than 90 cents per litre since

the Premier came into power in 2017 — and indeed, even 50 to 60 cents a

litre higher than our neighbouring jurisdictions right next door. That’s

something that really hits hard in an already stretched family

budget.

Some other examples of the percentage increases since the Premier

formed office in 2017 — and remember, on an affordability platform: gas

is up 95 percent, beef up 32 percent, butter up 32 percent, Internet up

21 percent. Housing is the highest in North America. Indeed, in spite of

all the blizzard of taxes that were introduced in 2017, the prices have

accelerated at a rate that is just unbelievable since I’ve been out of

government. We now have the highest housing prices in North America,

third-highest on the planet.

It’s in the context of that, Premier, that I wish to talk and

speak, first of all, just very quickly on your own office

budget.

The Chair: Member, if I might remind you, questions are through the

Chair, not directly.

K. Falcon: Through the Chair. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I might need some

reminding every once in a while.

The Chair: I’m happy to remind you.

K. Falcon: A bit rusty on the opposition side of things here.

Through the Chair to the Premier, the Premier is asking for an

approval of $15 million. When I first saw that number, I immediately

flashed back to my days in government when I don’t ever recall a

Premier’s office having such a large budget. I found that curious. I

went and checked to see what was the budget of the Premier’s office in

the last year that the B.C. Liberal government was there. I indeed

checked, and it was $8.998 million.

Premier, it has increased 63 percent during that period of

time.

Could the Premier please explain why, given every­thing I’ve

said about affordability, he feels it’s appropriate to increase his

budget 63 percent in that brief period of time?

[3:20 p.m.]

Hon. J. Horgan: For the benefit of those in the House and those at home, I’m

joined for these budget estimates by a handful of very capable staff

here in the chamber as well in other parts of the precinct. On my right

is my deputy minister, Lori Wanamaker. On my left is my chief of staff,

Geoff Meggs. Behind me, Mark Sieben, deputy minister of strategic

initiatives in the office of the deputy, as well as my deputy chief of

staff, Amber Hockin. There will be people coming and going throughout as

other members bring forward questions that will require particular

expertise.

The primary reason, hon. Member, for the increase in the Premier’s

office budget over the past five years has been a result of structural

and organizational changes that we made when we came to government in

2017. I’m the first Victoria-based Premier since the 1940s. Before that,

beyond the Bennetts, father and son, the majority of activity from, I

would suggest, the 1960s to today had been undertaken in Vancouver.

Former Premier Clark, former Premier other Clark, former Premier

Campbell as well as Premier Vander Zalm had offices in Vancouver that

were populated by staff that made things run over there.

When we came to government, there was an office that was there for

cabinet operations that was filled with people. That office now has

limited staff to meet the needs of a Vancouver satellite office, and the

bulk of the work is being done here in Victoria, where the Office of the

Premier staff can access professional public servants here in the lower

Island.

Those structural changes also involved taking areas where

Premier’s office work was being done and billed to the Minister of

Finance or Government Services or Citizens’ Services and putting them

where they belonged so that they would be able to be seen, as the Leader

of the Opposition has done, in the interest of transparency.

We require $14 million to meet the operations of the Premier’s

office because we’ve put in place, for one example…. I’m sure that we’ll

canvass this further, but our priorities and planning secretariat was

put in place, as is in place in other jurisdictions across Canada, to

better support cabinet operations, to ensure timely understanding of

issues as they emerge and to make sure that the appropriate work can be

done.

I believe that those changes were appropriate. We have been

discussing this over the past five years. I’m sure that members who have

been in the House for that period of time will recall those

discussions.

K. Falcon: Yes, I recall the planning and priorities secretariat. In fact, I

remember the numbers off the top of my head. I believe it was ten people

at $150,000 a pop, so about $1.5 million a year.

I struggle to understand why that’s necessary. We never had that

requirement at all during the entire time I was in government. I’m not

sure why, when you’ve got an entire policy and planning group in

government, you need to hire ten more people in the Premier’s office

doing planning and priorities. Quite frankly, it sounds to me like a lot

more people just spending a lot more time pushing a lot more paper and

having a lot more meetings without a discernable improved

outcome.

I’ll move to on the other element that bothers me, Premier. Again,

this is in the context of what I’d talked about earlier: what families

are going through, where 46 percent of families are struggling or $200

away from being able to meet their family needs every month.

In the last five years that the B.C. Liberals were in office…. I

checked the Premier’s budget. The salaries and benefits only increased

by 1.5 percent in last five years of the B.C. Liberal government. For

the Premier’s reference, that was from 2012 to 2017. Now, under this

Premier, again in the context of the struggling families across British

Columbia, I was shocked to see that we have seen salaries and benefits

increase by 56 percent over that same five-year period.

[3:25 p.m.]

I’d like the Premier to explain to those listening why that kind

of an increase, given the struggles that our families have gone through,

especially in the past couple years, is appropriate.

Hon. J. Horgan: I have to say that I don’t know where the member is getting his

number from. Any increases in salary or compensation within the office

of the Premier have been consistent with increases through the

professional public service and not extraordinary in any way.

I would say also that the objective of my office and my government

has been to reduce costs for people. For example, the elimination of

tolls on the Golden Ears and Port Mann Bridge, which were imposed by the

former government, are now gone, making extraordinary savings for those

who have to travel over bridges in the Lower Mainland. If you are a

regular user of the Port Mann Bridge, that is some $1,500 a year back in

the pockets of people who are paying that to get back and forth to work

or to conduct their business.

Similarly, we have stood up a new social program, the child

opportunity benefit, which will put, again, dollars into the pockets of

families for kids. It used to be up to age 6. Now it’s up to age 18.

That’s going to have a significant impact. I think it’s $1,600 per

family of two.

These are just a couple of the initiatives. I look forward to

talking about a range of others that we have brought forward to reduce

costs. Child care plan, for example. There was no significant child care

infrastructure in government in 2017. Now there is so that we can

provide $10-a-day and other low-cost options for families.

What I heard in my time in the opposition leader’s chair is that

businesses needed to ensure that we were maximizing the number of people

in the workforce. That’s been made abundantly clear over the past five

years. The biggest challenge businesses face, whatever they may do, is

people.

The first order of business would be to try and make it easier for

families to have two incomes. This is, of course, part and parcel of

meeting the challenges of living in a high-cost jurisdiction, and

providing affordable, accessible quality child care is key to that. It’s

not a social policy; it’s an economic policy. I’m sure that the member

will understand that.

K. Falcon: I want to be clear, because I think the Premier is providing some

fascinating information totally unrelated to the question. I am talking

about the expenditures in the Premier’s office and the fact that they

are accelerating at such a dramatic rate when other British Columbians

from every part of this province are struggling to make ends meet. To

call it tone deaf would certainly be an understatement.

I’d also point out that there have been significant increases in

the total budget for all of the NDP ministers’ offices over that same

five-year period, which now have a budget of $21.3 million this year.

Again, that’s a 50 percent increase since 2017.

[3:30 p.m.]

Premier, the concern that British Columbians would have is that at

a time when it’s a challenge for those that are not government

employees, frankly, and don’t get a regular paycheque that they don’t

have to worry about and are struggling to raise families at a time when

their businesses have been dramatically impacted. Some have lost their

entire businesses. Many are facing very uncertain futures and are really

pinching pennies to try and make ends meet.

You can understand how, when they see your office budget

increasing 63 percent, when they see an explosion in salaries and

benefits of 56 percent in a five-year period, when they see your

ministers’ office budgets increasing by 50 percent….

The Chair: Sorry, Leader. Of course, the questions are through the Chair,

as opposed to directly.

K. Falcon: I haven’t asked a question, Mr. Chair.

The Chair: No, you’re directing directly to the Premier. I don’t mean to

interrupt. I just don’t want this to have to be an ongoing issue.

The question would be to the Premier through the Chair, as opposed

to directed at the Premier, as are the standing orders of this

House.

K. Falcon: Thank you, Chair.

To the Premier, that is the concern that I have and that I think

British Columbians would have about where the Premier’s priorities might

be.

[J. Tegart in the chair.]

Now, Premier, I’d like to move on to an issue that I think really

goes to the very heart of that dissonance between the Premier’s actions

and regular British Columbians. That is, I’d like to talk for a moment

about the $40,000 raise that the Premier has provided himself and over

$20,000 for each of his cabinet ministers, at a time when, as I’ve said,

British Columbians are really struggling to make ends meet.

Now, for the benefit of the viewing audience, Madam Chair, I would

point out that this goes back historically as a result of a prior NDP

government’s so-called fudge-it budget. There was legislation brought in

called the Balanced Budget and Ministerial Accountability Act. The act

was very good, because what it did is it held back 20 percent of

ministerial and Premier salaries, and it was only returned if two things

happened: 10 percent if government met its overall target of balancing

the budget, and a further 10 percent if individual ministers met their

own individual budget and performance targets.

Now, while I was in government as Finance Minister, I and all my

cabinet colleagues had to take pay reductions — 10 percent pay

reductions — even though I guess you could argue that in the midst of a

global economic meltdown, as we were facing in ’08-09, you could come up

with all kinds of excuses, we didn’t. We went ahead and accepted

that.

It’s in that context that I was shocked to see, in Budget 2022,

that the government repealed the collective 10 percent salary holdback

provision that applies to the Premier and his cabinet ministers. But,

even more remarkably, when we dug deeper into the legislation, we saw in

clause 134 that they made the cancellation retroactive to the 2021

budget year.

Now, I recall that in 2020 the former Finance Minister, Carole

James, stated that the holdback would stay in place in recognition of

what people are going through, which was the right thing to say. So my

first question to the Premier is: what changed in terms of the former

Minister of Finance’s characterization and the Premier’s decision to

reward himself with a retroactive pay increase?

Hon. J. Horgan: Well, just a few facts. The budget we’re debating right now,

$14.692 million, is a 0.1 percent increase over last year. That includes

my salary. That includes the salary of all of the staff that work in the

Premier’s office. A 0.1 percent increase — not 40 percent, not 56

percent but 0.1 percent. That’s $14,000 more this year than last year

for the whole operation.

It’s disingenuous at best to…. I’m very grateful that the member

brought this up, because for the past number of months, as a talking

point, which is the easiest form of opposition you can find, they have

been speaking what I would characterize as inaccurately about what the

holdback was all about.

[3:35 p.m.]

The holdback was designed to ensure that budgets were kept in

line, and it was appropriate, perhaps, at that time. But in the midst of

a global pandemic, when citizens and businesses and communities were

clamoring to make sure that there were investments to keep them whole,

to say to ministers, “No, your motivation should be to cut back services

for people so that you can meet your own personal salary interest,”

seemed to me to be a gimmick. I called it that. I called it that at the

time. Quickly write that down, Members. Quickly write that down. I’ll

say it again: it’s a gimmick.

Because what the public wants us to do is to focus on them, not to

find ways to cut programs, which was what the holdback was a motivation

for. For the record, the salary for the Premier is unchanged. The salary

for the Minister of Finance is unchanged. The holdback has been removed,

because it was a disincentive to invest in people. That’s for the global

budget. That’s for the budget of the province of British

Columbia.

Individual ministers are still required to balance the budget that

they’re allocated through this process that we’re participating in right

now. So I am obliged to meet the budget that is tabled before us today

for debate — a 0.1 percent increase over last year; 0.1 percent. Not 40,

not 56 — a 0.1 percent increase over last year. I am obliged to stay

within that. If I don’t, salary will be held back.

This is not a pay raise. It has never been a pay raise, but the

opposition insists upon calling it that, and I think it begs the

question for the public: if they’re going to make stuff up about this,

what else are they making up? It is not a pay increase. It is a holdback

that was brought in 25 years ago, and it may have made sense then. It

doesn’t make sense now.

Interjection.

Hon. J. Horgan: So 0.1 percent. You’re making it up, man. You’re making it

up.

K. Falcon: That is an extraordinary statement. It’s an extraordinary

statement I just heard the Premier say, where it doesn’t make any sense.

At a time when British Columbians are $200 away from meeting their

family budgets, he thinks that a $40,000 raise that he’s awarded himself

retroactively is a gimmick. It is hardly a gimmick, Premier. Your timing

is atrocious.

People are really hurting out there. You know, some people, when

they go to fill up their gas tank, it’s not funny when they find out

that what used to cost them $100 when you first got elected costs them

$200 today. And when they find out, while they’re struggling to do that,

that you’re providing yourself with those kinds of retroactive pay

increases — totally undeserved…. Yes, it is a holdback, but it’s a

holdback for a reason. It’s a holdback that says you only earn it back

when you actually meet your targets of balancing the budget, which you

did not meet. You did not come close to meeting it.

At a time when other British Columbians are having to make

sacrifices, it is extraordinary to me that you would be so blithe in

describing this as a gimmick. It was no gimmick when we lost 10 percent

pay cuts back in our day in the midst of a global economic meltdown. We

certainly didn’t go and bring in legislation to make it

retroactive.

I want to ask a simple question for the Premier. Can he confirm

that his retroactive pay of what I calculate to be $10,354 has been

deposited into his account at a time when British Columbians are

struggling? Can he confirm that, please?

Hon. J. Horgan: The salary for the Premier and the salary for Members of the

Legislative Assembly, the salary for Third Party, the salary for Leader

of the Opposition, the salary for government Whip, the salary for

opposition Whip, the salary for House Leader, Opposition House Leader,

the salary for Government House Leader have remained the same except for

the built-in COLA clause that was agreed to after an independent panel

looked at wages for politicians some years back.

It’s all well and good for the opposition to say: “Let’s just

throw mud at everybody and say that somehow there are massive pay

raises.” There are not. We are talking about a budget right now, and you

can go from the blue book last year to the blue book this year, a 0.1

percent increase. That’s what we’re talking about. The data that’s being

brought forward by the Leader of the Opposition is not accurate. It’s

just not accurate.

What is also not accurate that’s been brought forward by the

official opposition most recently is, for example, Stats Canada has said

that we’ve had 30,000 more health care workers hired in the past two

years, but somehow, when the official opposition reads that data, they

say we’ve lost 10,000 workers. It’s just not accurate.

[3:40 p.m.]

When we see inaccuracies like this…. Again, the opposition says:

“We want to return the carbon tax to revenue neutrality.” In 2013, the

Fraser Institute, that noted left-wing think tank, said that it was no

longer a revenue-neutral tax, and that was on the watch of the member

across the way.

I clearly get it. The Leader of the Opposition wants to try and

make up and fabricate a story about what they call a pay raise. It was a

holdback. During the midst of a global pandemic, what I hear them

suggesting is…. They would have preferred that ministers of the Crown,

rather than trying to….

Interjections.

Hon. J. Horgan: Well, do you want an answer to the question? Do you want an

answer?

Interjections.

Hon. J. Horgan: I’m hearing the other side say that they would prefer that

ministers of the Crown would have reduced budgets to balance the budget,

rather than investing in people, rather than investing in businesses.

That’s what they’re saying. If they open their ears, they’ll hear

themselves.

K. Falcon: My question was simple. Has the Premier received over $10,000 into

his bank account as a result of the retroactive pay increase he gave

himself?

Hon. J. Horgan: The salary for the Office of the Premier, the salary for the

Leader of the Official Opposition are the same as they were last year

and the year before that.

K. Falcon: Has the Premier’s take-home pay increased by over $10,000 as a

result of the retroactive nature of Budget 2022, which retroactively

rewarded him an undeserved pay holdback?

Hon. J. Horgan: The salary for the Office of the Premier, the salary for the

Leader of the Opposition, the salary for the Leader of the Third Party

are the same this year as they were last year.

K. Falcon: Would the Premier acknowledge that the increase in pay that the

Premier is now receiving — as a result of retroactively, and going

forward, rewarding themselves undeserved increases — is going to also

increase the Premier’s pensionable earnings?

Hon. J. Horgan: Again, the salary and compensation for members of this Legislature

and officers of this Legislature, whether they be Opposition House

Leader, Government House Leader or Third Party opposition leader, were

set in this House, and they remain the same today as they were when I

started.

K. Falcon: Just to correct the Premier’s earlier comments, in which he

suggested how thrifty he’s been in terms of salaries and benefits…. I

just remind the Premier that if you look at salaries and benefits in the

Premier’s office over the last five years, they’ve gone up over 56

percent, from $8 million to $12.5 million this year.

Getting back to the undeserved raise that the Premier has awarded

himself and cabinet ministers, does the Premier not, at least at a

minimum, understand…?

Forget the opposition and what I’m saying. I’m not trying to be

rhetorical about this, Premier, through the Chair. I’m just trying to

have the Premier acknowledge that for people out there that are

struggling, for a single mom in Surrey who is unable to send her child

to soccer practice and participate in soccer because she no longer has

the dollars to do it, as a result of all of the inflationary costs that

have increased under this NDP government….

Would the Premier not, at least, acknowledge that rewarding

himself with a retroactive pay increase of over $10,000, which is in his

account and which he has yet to acknowledge — it has been deposited into

his account — at a time when that single mother in Surrey cannot have

the dollars to send her kids to soccer practice, is tone deaf, at

least?

[3:45 p.m.]

Hon. J. Horgan: Let’s talk about that single mom in Surrey who, if she had to

cross a bridge under the B.C. Liberals, would have had to pay a toll.

She had to pay medical services premiums, which she doesn’t have to pay

anymore. If she’s a renter…. We removed the automatic 2 percent rent

increase that was built in by the B.C. Liberals.

We put in place a child opportunity benefit, which I’m corrected.

I said $1,600 for a family of two. That’s $2,600 for a family of

two.

If that single mom has a car, the car insurance is 20 percent less

than it was under the B.C. Liberals. In the past 16 months, that driver

would have received not one, not two but three policy rebates numbering

into the area…. I believe it’s about $460 back to people during that

time.

With respect to getting that youngster into sports, which I

absolutely advocate and support 100 percent, we’ve increased funding for

KidSport so that families on modest incomes can participate in

sport.

I appreciate that the Leader of the Opposition wants to take a

look at this moment in time, when we have a global crisis in Europe

that’s leading to the highest inflation we’ve seen in British Columbia,

in Canada, in North America, indeed in the world, in recent memory,

going back even well before the member on the other side was first

elected into this place. These are extraordinary times. I absolutely

acknowledge that. That’s why we’re taking steps every day to reduce

costs for the family in Surrey and for families right across British

Columbia.

If we are going to take this moment in time, when we’re at an

extraordinary period with the aggression of Vladimir Putin in Ukraine,

which has destabilized the international economy, then…. I look to my

friends the federal government, who raised interest rates just today.

That’s going to have an impact on people here. I can’t wait for the

Leader of the Opposition to blame me for that as well.

We have taken tangible steps to reduce costs for families. I will

not take advice and guidance from someone who brought in tolls, someone

who institutionalized regular increases in medical services premiums,

when we eliminated both of those things.

K. Falcon: We’ll get to tolls. Don’t you worry, Premier. I took tolls off the

Coquihalla Highway too. So I know how to take off tolls, Premier. But

we’ll get to that. Don’t you worry.

What I find disappointing here is that the Premier keeps tap

dancing around the fact that he gave himself and his cabinet ministers a

raise at a time when there is no British Columbian — you will find none

anywhere, in any part of this province — that would say that is

justified — nowhere.

What is disappointing is that the single mom, who we were talking

about in Surrey, has to wait until July to get her ICBC rebate of 110

bucks, which probably won’t even cover filling up her minivan, while the

Premier has already deposited over $10,000 of his retroactive pay

increase. That’s what it is.

Now I’m going to move on, Premier, to another example that I think

is emblematic of your government and how you’ve lost your way and how

you just are completely tone deaf from understanding how average British

Columbians are feeling today. That has to do with your unbelievably tone

deaf $1 billion vanity museum boondoggle, which we’re going to

cover.

I struggle to understand the rationale behind this decision. I’ve

been involved in capital projects, in both the private and the public

sectors, in the billions of dollars. I have not seen anything like this,

with the possible exception of the fast ferries, which, interestingly,

do have strikingly similar characteristics to this decision. That will

become apparent as we go through this discussion.

I want to set down, for the viewing public, the timeline of what

was going on here. I think it’s important that the public understand how

remarkable this remarkably ill-advised decision of the Premier’s really

is.

[3:50 p.m.]

Now, in October 2018, the Royal B.C. Museum came out with a plan

called Treasures for Generations. The Treasures for Generations plan had

an expensive but well-thought-out plan of investing $150 million into

that museum over a 25-year period. If you look through the Treasures

for Generations document, you will see it describes it as a

complete transformation. It includes seismic and safety upgrades. It

includes gallery redevelopments and reinvigorated exhibition space and

zones.

To the public, recognizing how much they love this museum and love

the exhibits in it, I think there was genuine consensus that that

probably made sense. The building is not old. It’s only 54 years old or

so. But doing an upgrade like that and taking care of seismic work —

that makes sense.

Now, in December of that year, 2018, Treasury Board approved the

concept plan that was largely based on the Treasures for

Generation document. In the February 2019 throne speech, the

government said, “Government will modernize the Royal B.C. Museum,”

consistent with the Treasury Board document.

In the February 2020 throne speech, again: “In the future, people

will be able to visit renewed cultural institutions like the Royal B.C.

Museum.” Then in August 2020, in anticipation of the modernization of

the museum, the museum acquired the IMAX Theatre for $4.29 million. Then

further along we saw, in April 20, 2021, the collections and research

building was first appearing in the budget of 2021, at a cost of $177

million.

Then, on February 22, in Budget 2022, the collections and research

building appeared in the budget document again, but this time at a

higher cost — $224 million, almost 30 percent over budget and now a year

behind schedule, in the most amazingly short period of time. This almost

takes talent to be this off on a project like that that

early.

Then, on May 13, Friday the 13th — and I’m not kidding when I say

that; it was Friday the 13th — the Premier and the minister announced,

out of the blue, with no one ever expecting this, a new museum for $789

million — not $790 million, not $783 million, but $789 million. Sounds

like they priced it right down to the last nickel there — or, as I

recall a former Premier, I think it was, saying, right down to the last

roll of toilet paper.

Now, in question period, the minister responsible said: “Don’t

worry. We’ve got a business case, thousands of pages, that backs all

this up.” Then the minister promised that that business case would be

released by the end of the week. It was not released at the end of the

week. We all know that now.

But finally, the business case was released the following week, on

May 25, and a third of it was redacted, blacked out. All the information

that any person would want to see just to know, to have some sense that

this $789 million decision that came out of the blue was the right

decision or at least has some kind of backing…. All of that important

information was fully redacted.

Then we’re finding out that they’re going to shut down the museum

on September 6 — shut it down in the midst of tourist season, by the

way, at a cost of 531 jobs and, as their own report acknowledges, an

economic benefit of some $200 million a year. This is indeed puzzling,

because we know that there have been no drawings. We know that there’s

been absolutely no work done to justify the immediate closing of this

museum.

[3:55 p.m.]

We also know that the museum itself — in appendix F; thankfully

this wasn’t blacked out in their partially released business case —

actually had a facility condition assessment of 0.35. Now, for the

benefit of the viewing audience, the lower the number, the better the

rating is. So a 0.35 is considered a good rating with respect to this

building. That’s important because the average school has a 0.5 rating,

which is worse.

It does beg the question to the Premier. Why, Premier, was this

billion-dollar announcement a priority when it’s got a better seismic

rating than many of the schools our children attend every single

day?

[4:00 p.m.]

Hon. J. Horgan: I thank the member for raising these issues today in budget

estimates. I want to amend, somewhat, the timeline that was laid out by

the Leader of the Opposition by saying that initially government, his

government at that time, was advised, through a seismic report in 2006,

that there were concerns at the Royal B.C. Museum — which, as many

members would know, sees over 800,000 visitors a year, many of them

children. So the concern about seismic was, I’m sure, felt by the

government of the day. It certainly was by the museum board appointed by

the government of the day.

By May of 2011, a complete rezoning was done by the then CEO of

the museum, and the government of the day declined to proceed. Further

reports, seismic reports, were completed in 2014-2015, and again the

Treasury Board was asked by the then chair, the member for Abbotsford

West…. The Royal B.C. Museum staff were asked to come back with a plan

to address the seismic and other risks to the collection, some seven

million artifacts — archives of our collective history — housed across

the street.

In 2017, the governments changed, we received the report that was

requested by the former Minister of Finance. We undertook project

planning, and it was initiated at that point, just after we came to

government, and a concept plan was approved. From there, in 2019, a

Speech from the Throne, which was referenced, talked about the

modernization of the museum, which was underway.

As an insurance policy — we’re going to have to move the materials

in any event, whether it be for an upgrade or for a replacement — the

collections and research building seemed a good idea at the time by

government, and it was embraced and supported by the research community,

who wanted to be able to access resources that are held across the

street currently. That project is underway and has been discussed in

subsequent estimates in previous years.

The notion that 6 percent of the business plan was redacted — 6

percent, not one-third; 6 percent…. I think it’s

important to correct the record there. It’s quite unusual to have a

business plan laid out so quickly after an announcement, for procurement

reasons. Again, the member, newly returned from his time in the private

sector, would understand that. I do recall no business plan being

prepared at all for the Vancouver Convention Centre until well after its

construction was underway.

I also think that the Port Mann Bridge business plan was never

released at all. So if the member wants to quibble that we said we’d

have it on Friday and didn’t get it to him until Wednesday, I suppose he

can do that, but we’re still waiting for the Port Mann Bridge business

case. I guess we’ll still keep on waiting for that.

The documents that were released to the public and to the

opposition for review make it very clear that option 1, which would have

been akin to the document that was referred to, was a concept plan that

did not have any financial foundation. It was just: “What could we do if

we can’t do anything?” It was years of inaction by the former government

that led to the creation of that document.

When we suggested an interest in finding what the options would

really be, we looked at replacing at the existing site. We looked at

replacing on a new site. We looked at revitalization, and we looked at

repair. That’s options 1 through 5. They can be found on page 8 of the

business plan, for those who are following at home.

The result of that due diligence, in 2018 dollars, was that to

replace at a new site would have cost, at that time, $526 million.

Replacement at the existing site, $580 million. A revitalization was

booked at $635 million, and a complete repair to all of the needs of the

building was booked at $738 million.

[4:05 p.m.]

Although it was clear from the options that were presented that

building in a new location would have been the least-cost option —

beyond doing nothing, which is what the Leader of the Opposition is

suggesting should happen. We canvassed that with tourism operators. We

canvassed that with people who have an interest in the museum here in

Victoria and opening it up. Of course, it’s located in Victoria, but

it’s a provincial asset.

I’d remind the member that the first order of business for the

government of British Columbia in the 1880s was to create a museum in

the first place, to protect and preserve those elements of our

collective history.

What we did was we looked at this and we asked the officials to go

away and come back, and we did due diligence for four years — not four

minutes, not four weeks, not four months but for four years — to find

the best way forward. It was the considered view of the community that

depends on the museum for tourism that the location on the Inner Harbour

was the best place for the museum to be. We agreed with that, at the end

of the day. Cabinet deliberated after Treasury Board did due diligence,

and we rested on the decision that we made.

Again, we can disagree on the value of our collective history. We

can disagree on that 1 percent of the annual capital budget, which is

what this project represents. Over the course of an eight-year buildout,

that’s $100 million a year — which again, to regular folks, sounds like

a big pile of money.

It is 1 percent of the global overall capital budget, which we are

now using, the largest in B.C. history, to do the seismic upgrades on

schools that are absolutely critical. Building new schools that were

ignored for a period of time in the mid part of the last decade. We’re

building new hospitals. We’re building new bridges. We’re building new

public transit infrastructure.

We are making capital investments to bring British Columbia’s

economy to life. It is humming. It is the fastest-growing economy in the

country. Real wages have gone up over the past number of years, after

years of stagnation. I agree with the Leader of the Opposition that it’s

his job to keep government accountable, but I don’t believe that it’s

the job of the official opposition to criticize those who want and

cherish and value our collective history.

Ignoring the challenges for a decade and a half and then

criticizing a government that brought this forward…. After five years of

consideration and hard work by a whole bunch of people, to declare that

it came out of the thin blue sky is just not true. In defence, my

learned opponent said we talked about this in 2019. That would be — let

me think now — three years ago.

K. Falcon: Well, Premier, here’s the problem. A third of the pages, frankly,

of this joke of a business case, featured significant redactions. That

includes, by the way, for the viewing public, the most important

elements that you want to see in a business case, like the

value-for-money analysis, totally blacked out; the risks results

analysis, totally blacked out; the construction cost breakdowns, totally

blacked out. In fact, entire appendices in this so-called business case

were just completely redacted — appendix B, M, O, R, U, Z.

Interestingly, appendix Z was the financial model report, fully

redacted. All of the appendixes, fully redacted.

I think I have an inkling that I know why. I think the inkling has

do with the part of it that they’ve got started on — which is already a

year behind

schedule and almost 30 percent over budget: the collections

and research building. I have a simple question: why is that building

already almost 30 percent over budget and a year behind

schedule?