Manitoba Hansard — 7 March 2024 (Sitting 26B, 43rd Legislature, 1st Session)

43-1-26b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

First Session – Forty-Third Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Tom Lindsey Speaker Vol. LXXVIII No. 26B - 1:30 p.m., Thursday, March 7, 2024 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-Third Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALTOMARE, Nello, Hon. Transcona NDP ASAGWARA, Uzoma, Hon. Union Station NDP BALCAEN, Wayne Brandon West PC BEREZA, Jeff Portage la Prairie PC BLASHKO, Tyler Lagimodière NDP BRAR, Diljeet Burrows NDP BUSHIE, Ian, Hon. Keewatinook NDP BYRAM, Jodie Agassiz PC CABLE, Renée, Hon. Southdale NDP CHEN, Jennifer Fort Richmond NDP COOK, Kathleen Roblin PC CROSS, Billie Seine River NDP DELA CRUZ, Jelynn Radisson NDP DEVGAN, JD McPhillips NDP EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FONTAINE, Nahanni, Hon. St.

Johns NDP GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach PC GUENTER, Josh Borderland PC HIEBERT, Carrie Morden-Winkler PC JACKSON, Grant Spruce Woods PC JOHNSON, Derek Interlake-Gimli PC KENNEDY, Nellie Assiniboia NDP KHAN, Obby Fort Whyte PC KINEW, Wab, Hon. Fort Rouge NDP KING, Trevor Lakeside PC KOSTYSHYN, Ron, Hon. Dauphin NDP LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAMOUREUX, Cindy Tyndall Park Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas-Kameesak NDP LINDSEY, Tom, Hon. Flin Flon NDP LOISELLE, Robert St. Boniface NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Malaya, Hon. Notre Dame NDP MOROZ, Mike River Heights NDP MOSES, Jamie, Hon. St.

Vital NDP MOYES, Mike Riel NDP NARTH, Konrad La Vérendrye PC NAYLOR, Lisa, Hon. Wolseley NDP NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC OXENHAM, Logan Kirkfield Park NDP PANKRATZ, David Waverley NDP PERCHOTTE, Richard Selkirk PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Turtle Mountain PC REDHEAD, Eric Thompson NDP SALA, Adrien, Hon. St. James NDP SANDHU, Mintu The Maples NDP SCHMIDT, Tracy, Hon. Rossmere NDP SCHOTT, Rachelle Kildonan-River East NDP SCHULER, Ron Springfield-Ritchot PC SIMARD, Glen, Hon. Brandon East NDP SMITH, Bernadette, Hon.

Point Douglas NDP STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo PC STONE, Lauren Midland PC WASYLIW, Mark Fort Garry NDP WHARTON, Jeff Red River North PC WIEBE, Matt, Hon. Concordia NDP WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC

559 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Thursday, March 7, 2024 The House met at 1:30 p.m. The Speaker: Good afternoon. Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 8–The Safe Access to Abortion Services Act Hon. Nahanni Fontaine (Minister responsible for Women and Gender Equity): I move, seconded by the minister of–by the First Minister, that Bill 8, The Safe Access to Abortion Services Act, be now read a first time. Motion presented.

MLA Fontaine: Bill 8, The Safe Access to Abortion Services Act, will protect access to abortion services and ensure the safety and security of all Manitobans who access or provide abortion services through the creation of buffer zones around clinics and facilities providing those services and the homes of serv ice providers. With Bill 8, Manitoba joins BC, Newfoundland, Labrador, Quebec, Ontario, Alberta, Nova Scotia who already have said legislation. Abortion is health care. It's a human right. Bill 8 affirms these facts. And while some citizens may not agree with abortion, don't have one.

And if folks feel the need to protest against these human rights, they're welcome to do it here at the Manitoba Legislature. I'm happy to present Bill 8 for consideration, and I look forward to it passing unanimously. Miigwech. The Speaker: Any further bills? The honourable minis- ter–sorry about that. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Bill 9–The Employment Standards Code Amendment Act Hon. Malaya Marcelino (Minister of Labour and Immigration): Honourable Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Sport, Culture, Heritage and Tourism (Mr.

Simard), that Bill 9, The Employment Standards Code Amendment Act; Loi modifiant le Code des normes d'emploi, be now read a first time. Motion presented. The Speaker: And just as a reminder to all ministers, the first speech on the introduction should be around 30 seconds. MLA Marcelino: Honourable Speaker, I'm pleased to introduce Bill 9, The Employment Standards Code Amendment Act. The pur pose of this bill is to extend long- term leave for serious injury or illness from 17 to 27 weeks, to align with the federal employ ment insurance sick- ness period.

This will ensure that all Manitoban work- ers are able to access enough unpaid protected leave from their jobs to receive the full extended EI benefits. Extending Manitoba's protective leave to 27 weeks supports workers who are in the difficult circumstance of having to temporary leave their job due to serious illness or injury, and this will also ensure that Manitoban workers have the time and flexibility that they need to recover and return to work.

This will be beneficial for those with serious ill- nesses, such as cancer, to focus on their treatment and recovery while being able to collect federal EI bene- fits, if they qualify, for the entire available period. I'm pleased to present this bill to the House for its consideration. Thank you, Honourable Speaker. The Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] The honourable Minister of post -secondary edu- cation–Advanced Education and Training, sorry. Bill 10–The Advanced Education Administration Amendment Act Hon.

Renée Cable (Minister of Advanced Education and Training): I move, seconded by the Minis ter of Environment and Climate Change (MLA Schmidt), that Bill 10, The Advanced Education Administration Amendment Act, now be read a first time. Motion presented. MLA Cable: Honourable Speaker, I'm pleased to intro- duce Bill 10. This bill will amend The Advanced

560 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 7, 2024 Education Administration Act, will allow government to oversee the imple mentation of sexual violence policies in post-secondaries. So this will address and prevent sexual violence because that's a priority for our government, and will ensure staff, students and faculty in our post-secondary institutions are both–are safe both in and off -campus activities. We know that most of our institutions are respon- sive and respon sible partners that share the same values and pri orities of our gov ernment.

But in the event that an institution fails to uphold or take appro- priate action, we will now have the ability to act. We want to strengthen compliance and ensure that in sti- tutions respond in a timely way and to properly support the safety of students on our campus communities. Thank you, Honourable Speaker. The Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] The honour able Minister of Justice, and just a reminder again, 30 seconds. Bill 11–The Statutes and Regulations Amendment and

Interpretation Amendment Act Hon. Matt Wiebe (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I move, seconded by the Minister of Health, that Bill 11, The Statutes and Regulations Amendment and Inter pretation A mendment Act, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Wiebe: I'm pleased to introduce The Statutes and Regulations Amendment and Inter pretation Amend- ment Act. This bill will provide the tools needed to update language to achieve gender n eutrality in Manitoba statutes and regula tions, to efficiently make minor amendments and corrections to regula tions and to allow for changes to be made to coming- into-force proclamation before

an act's commencement date, if required. It will help ensur e that our legis lation is more representative of all Manitobans. The Speaker: Is it pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] No further intro duction of bills? Com mittee reports? Seeing none, tabling of reports? TABLING OF REPORTS Hon. Nello Altomare (Minister of Education and Early Childhood Learning): I'm pleased to rise in the House today to table the first inaugural annual report on nutrition programs for the '22-23 school year that are provided by the K -to-12 public schools right here in Manitoba.

This report stems from the passage in the previous session of bill 222, and I'm thrilled to share it today as the Minister of Edu cation and Early Childhood Learning. MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS The Speaker: I would advise that the 90 minut es' timeline has been met, so the honourable Minister of Families. International Women's Day Hon. Nahanni Fontaine (Minister responsible for Women and Gender Equity): As Minister responsi- ble for Women and Gender Equity, I am honoured to celebrate Inter national Women's Day, which takes place tomorrow, March 8th, 2024.

International Women's Day is a global movement recognizing and holding up women and girls across the globe. This is my absolute favourite day of the year. It's a day where we lift up each other, where we can celebrate our achievements and where we find empowerment and liberation in one another as women and girls. * (13:40) Yet, on this International Women's Day, we are witnessing devastating levels of global unrest, political instability and armed conflict not seen in a generation. From the Congo, Haiti, Afghanistan, Ukraine, Gaza and more, women and children are bearing the brunt of these conflicts.

Today I joined the chorus of inter national voices calling out the sexual violence pe rpetrated against women and girls in Gaza and women and girls in Israel. The latest United Nations' report found reasonable grounds that acts of sexual violence took place on October 7. And right now, thousands of women and girls have been killed, maimed, displaced and are starving in Gaza. Patriarchy, misogyny and toxic masculinity has no place in our future. It's a system designed to uphold the power and privilege of men at the expense of women, girls and marginalized genders.

Patriarchy dictates who we should be, how we should behave, how we should speak, what we can wear and what we can do with our bodies, spaces where we can safely be in and what we should aspire to achieve–more often, cis heterosexual marriage and babies.

March 7, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 561 In the struggle against pat riarchy, I put my full faith in the undeniable and sheer will, spirit and soul of women and girls and the incredible courage and determination of rebuilding families, communities and nations. And so on this International Women's Day, let me say this to wo men and girls everywhere: Live your best life. Take full advantage of every opportunity available to you. Live up to the potential your an- cestors gave you. Take risks. Take up space. Take up all the space. Wear those amazing earrings. Speak your truth loudly. Be bold.

Let them speak behind your back at how unmanageable and loud you are. Never shrink your - self to make men comfortable. Unapologetically and courageously smash patriarchy every single day, not only on International Women's Day. And know this to be true: Women and girls are the holders of solutions, and we will be the ones to heal this world. Happy International Women's Day. Mrs. Lauren Stone (Midland): I am honoured, excited and proud to stand here in the House today to recognize the impor tance of International Women's Day being celebrated across the world tomorrow.

Throughout my life and career, I have been blessed to know and be inspired by so many women that show us what it means to be strong, determined and unapologetically woman. Immediately, I think of my mom who raised me to stand up for what is right and has been such a supportive and encouraging force in my life. And of course, I think of my daughter, with her 5- year-old can-do and determined attitude, gives me not only inspiration every day, but excitement for what the future can hold for her and our next generation of female leaders.

Every day, in every way, there is more work to be done to improve opportunity for women. But today is a chance for us all to thank and recognize t hose who have broken down so many barriers and glass ceilings to get us to where we are today. I want to thank all the women who have run for elected office, in counci l chambers, the L egislature, Parliament and the Senate. I want to thank the women who have broken down so many traditional barriers in the areas of STEM, manufacturing, trades, finance, busi ness and agriculture.

Throughout my career in these fields, I have first-hand witnessed the willpower of so many women boldly using their voice and their expertise. But, we also need to continue to voice our con- cerns for those women whose voices have been shut down, intimidated or simply targeted and torn down simply for their gender. Sadly , this continues to happen today. As important it is to recogni ze the many efforts that have been done to get us where we are today, accelerating progress, the theme for this year, also means acknowledging that we still have a long way to go in the pursuit of gender equality.

We on this side of the House understand when women benefit, society benefits. This is why our PC government took action, Honourable Speaker, and made significant steps to reduce barriers and combat inequality in Manitoba. This includes, but is not limited to, removing requirements for victims of intimate partner violence to prove that they are in an intimate relationship with someone who is abusing them through The Residential Tenancies Amendment Act; and partnering with the federal government to invest $22.3 million toward the implementation of the National Action Plan to End Gender-Based Violence.

There is still much more work to do. Sadly, across our province and across our world, we are constantly reminded of this, hearing repeated cases of gender - based violence, sexism, discrimination, lack of access to necessary resources and pay equity. We have also seen harassment and abuse take on new forms through the digital age. These past few years have had a disproportionate impact on women, including an increase in domestic violence and sexual assaults, job insecurity and challenges with work- life balance for mothers, daughters, sisters and caregivers. We can be the change that we wish to see.

With a collective effort, we can make life safer and more prosperous for our mothers, daughters, sisters, grand- mothers, partners and friends. Honourable Speaker, this is a call to action. As I look across this Chamber, I am inspired to see so many women who have made strides towards gender equality. So today, and every day, let's cele - brate women. Let us raise awareness against the bias that still exists today. This is what International Women's Day is all about. So, in closing, together let's lift up women and celebrate their hard -won achievements and continue

562 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 7, 2024 paving the way for a future genera tion of f emale leaders. Thank you. MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): Honourable Speaker, I ask for leave to respond to the minister's statement. The Speaker: Does the member have leave? [Agreed] MLA Lamoureux: Honourable Speaker, tomorrow, March 8th, is International Women's Day, and it serves as a reminder that gender equality is one of the most effective ways to build a healthier, more pros - perous and more inclusive world. This year's theme is Invest in women: Accelerate progress.

And to do this, we need to recognize women in all fields. Throughout history women have trailblazed against all odds. We can go back to 1645, where Jeanne Mance founded Canada's first hospital. In 1867 Dr. Emily Stowe became the first Canadian women physician to practise in Ca nada, and in 1992 Dr. Roberta Bondar became the first Canadian astro - naut woman sent up in space And, Honourable Speaker, I always like to bring it back to the House.

Here in these Chambers, we are so lucky to have our colleague from T he Pas - Kameesak who, in 2015, was the first Indigenous woman ever elected into the Manitoba Legislature. We also have our colleague from Tuxedo, who was the first female premier ever elected here in Manitoba. Honourable Speaker, we have a lot to celebrate. Just earlier this week I met with two wonderful women from the Islamic Circle of North America, who have a

chapter here in Manitoba. The organization dedicates themselves to helping others, be it by spending time with seniors, donating books, food and clothing drives, participating in celebrations and more, and also taking the time to both teach and learn about others. And this Saturday I'm attending an event being put on by the Asian Women of Winnipeg, who use their signature event to showcase the accom plish- ments of wome n and acknowledge their hard work and the barriers women had to overcome in order to be successful. I hope to see all of my colleagues there. Thank you, Honourable Speaker.

Introduction of Guests The Speaker: Before we move on to member state - ments, we have some guests in the gallery that I would like to introduce. Seated in the public gallery from St. John's High School we have 15 grade 12 students under the direc- tion of Tala Gammon, and this group is located in the constituency of the honourable member for St. Johns, the honourable Minister of Families (MLA Fontaine). Welcome. * (13:50) MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Maryna Olieshko and Neonila Palii Mrs. Rachelle Schott (Kildonan-River East): Today, I want to recognize the resilience of women across the world.

I invited two inspiring women from my con - stituency of Kildonan-River East, a mother and daughter who join us today in the gallery. Maryna and Nila moved to my constituency from Ukraine within the last couple of years. These in - credible women were forced to flee their home, leaving behind their loved ones, particularly Maryna's husband, the father of her two young boys. It's beautiful when multiple generations of strong women come together to care for their families, their community and each other.

Their connection reflects a common intergenerational story among women: mothers, daughters, grandmothers, all working together to raise villages, build community and make impactful change in our world. For many newcomer women who are forced to uproot their lives, every day is a challenge. This in- cludes navigating child care, employment and finding resources for their new settlement. This mother and daughter have supported each other throughout this difficult transition.

On top of all of this, they choose to still connect in the community by meeting new people at church and at the thrift store where they work together. I want to acknowledge Maryna and Nila today for their bravery, resilience and strength. Our com mun- ities thrive when we encourage and celebrate women's leadership and determination. Please join me in thanking these brave women for their contributions to our community. Thank you. Marine Museum of Manitoba Mr. Richard Perchotte (Selkirk): Today, I arise to bring recognition to the Marine Museum of Manitoba

March 7, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 563 and to the exceptional general manager that has con - tinued to bring forward the vision and dedi cation in giving its customers a truly unique experience. The Marine Museum of Manitoba is a true historical gem located only 39 kilometres from the steps of this Legislative Building, located in Selkirk, Manitoba. The museum provides its patrons with a wealth of nautical history of the ships and vessels that navigated the waters of the Red River and Lake Winnipeg.

The museum provides a hands-on experience, giving you the oppor tunity to step back in time as you board, explore and learn the history of the S.S. Kenora, the C.G.S. Bradbury and many more ships. Honourable Speaker, the Marine Museum of Manitoba will celebrate its 50th year this summer.

Fifty years of preserving and showcasing the history of these ships and their importance to the communities they served requires a special staff to make that happen. 'Tonay'–today I would like to acknowledge and commend the general manager, Shaylene Nordal, for her dedication, vision, unbridled passion and hard work preserving history for all future generations to enjoy. This summer, Shaylene will celebrate 30 years of continued dedication and perseverance at the Marine Museum of Manitoba. Shaylene's three decades leaves a legacy for all visitors to enjoy today, tomorrow and in another 30 years.

It's with great respect for Shaylene and her service, I ask everyone here to join me in acknowledging the contributions of one of our unsung heroes of Manitoba history. Women in Small Business MLA Billie Cross (Seine River): Honourable Speaker, today I rise to honour women who are leaders in Manitoba's small -business sector. Some of those women are joining us in the gallery today, and they have been influential entrepreneurs in our province's economy. Small businesses are the heart and soul of our economy and our neighbourhoods. Women in busi - ness continue to face discrimination and minimized opportunities.

Often, women are overlooked, under - appreciated, undervalued and underestimated in our ability to be leaders in our communities. There are close to 4,000 women -owned busi - nesses in Manitoba. An incredible number, and yet they only make up 12 per cent–12 per cent–of all busi - nesses i n Manitoba. We must encourage and uplift women in order for there to be equal representation in our business sector. I would argue that Manitoba would not be the thriving place it is without the female leaders who either began their own businesses or were strong, fierce advocates for other women in business.

I want to ask the small-business leaders I invited here today to please stand. These women are involved in every part of the business sector, including retail, aesthetics, marketing, artisan goods and more. Please join me in commending their creativity, passion, determination. They have shown young women and girls across Manitoba that barriers can be overcome, that women can accomplish whatever they put their minds to and that discrimination will never win. Once again, we're grateful for your dedication to our province. I pro - vided a list of names–a list of my guests' names to be added to Hansard.

Thank you for everything you do. Michelle Cameron, Cassandra Carreiro, Preslie Cross, Kate Fenske, Kathy Hunter, Harmanpreet Kaur, Danielle Mondor, Gabrielle Zoppa Heavenly Care Care-Home Mr. Josh Guenter (Borderland): Honourable Speaker, it was my pleasure to visit the Heavenly Care care-home facility in Neuenberg, just before its opening in January. The nine-bed care home is located on the farm in the village of Neuenberg where the late George Dyck was born in 1935, and where he passed away a few years ago.

It was George's wish that the iconic house barn be turned into a care -home facility that would benefit others, and in January, that wish became a reality. Heavenly Care provides certified health-care staff on a 24- 7 basis, an on- site chef, recreational pro - gramming and much more. The potential for expan- sion is also there, with the opportunity to build another structure to house many more residents at the property.

George's nephew Gerald Papp, who still operates the farm, and his family have poured their time and resources into the project, and locals are thrilled with the prospect of being able to stop by and visit with residents, as well as to be able to work at the facility. I want to recognize Celma Pinto, who is the CEO of Heavenly Care, and Arveen Aulakh, who is the

564 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 7, 2024 operations manager, as well their staff, for their hard work and determination to see the project through, and for their care of the residents. This effort is typical of the irrepressible can -do spirit of the people of southern Manitoba, and on behalf of the community, I again thank all those who worked so hard to make this vision a reality. Thank you. Recognizing Women Political Leaders Hon. Renée Cable (Minister of Advanced Education and Training): Tomorrow is International Women's Day.

And to honour this day, I want to thank the trailblazers who've paved the way for women i n this space. I recognize the late Rebecca Catherine Barrett, better known as Becky to all who know –knew and loved her. She was a passionate community leader who dedicated her life to social justice and labour advocacy as a political organizer, MLA and m inister in Manitoba. I recognize Nancy Allan, who served 16 years as the NDP MLA for St. Vital.

Elected in '99, the former minister of Labour and Education made significant contributions to anti-bullying and inclusion legislation with the groundbreaking Public Schools Amendment Act. She deeply understood the importance of pro - tecting students and investing in our young people's futures. Flor Marcelino was the first visible minority woman to be elected to the Legislature and appointed to Cabinet. She br oke the ceiling for future women of colour, including the incredible MLA for Notre Dame.

Erin Selby, my predecessor as the previous MLA for Southdale and minister of Advanced Education and Literacy; Erna Braun, a fierce voice in the com - munity whose support allowed me to be sitting as a proud member of this NDP government.

Diane McGifford, the first-ever provincial minister of Advanced Education; Education minister Maureen Hemphill, who fought against blatant misogyny by being exceedingly capable; Muriel Smith, the first woman in Canada to serve as deputy premier; my colleague, the member for The Pas, who was the first First Nations woman to be elected to the Legislature; Theresa Oswald, the first female minister of Health and a precedent setter for mini sters' maternity leave; Myrna Phillips, pardon me, a strong gender equity advocate and Speaker of the House.

These are just a few of the women who have forged the path for us. * (14:00) I thank all women, past and present, who made it possible for us to occupy our rightful space in this Legislature. I look forward to doing the same for our next generation of strong NDP women. I would like to add all of these names to Hansard. Thank you.

Nancy Allan, Rebecca Catherine Barrett, Erna Braun, Maureen Hemphill, Flor Marcelino, Diane McGifford, Theresa Oswald, Myrna Phillips, Erin Selby, Muriel Smith Introduction of Guests The Speaker: Before we move on to oral questions, I would like to formally introduce some guests who are joining us here in the House. In the gallery, Erin Selby, former member for Southdale; in the loge to my right, Nancy Allan, former MLA for St. Vital; Myrna Phillips, former MLA for Wolseley; Muriel Smith, former MLA for Osborne; Erna Braun, former MLA for Rossmere; and Flor Marcelino, former MLA for Logan.

On behalf of all honourable members, we welcome you all to this Chamber. ORAL QUESTIONS Bail Reform Government Intention Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Leader of the Official Opposition): I, too, would like congratulate and thank all the strong women, not only that are in this Chamber, but that have affected all of our lives. And happy International Women's Day tomorrow to ab - solutely everyone, not only tomorrow but each and every day. Honourable Speaker, the NDP Premier has ripped off talking points from former British prime ministers that he's going to come down on crime and its causes.

Six months ago, as the NDP leader, the Premier gave a speech about crime, justice and reconciliation. He made a few promises, including one about b ail reform–which he's already broken. He also said, and I quote, Indigenous people come up in our conver sa- tions about crime in this province. Now, despite the office that he holds now, he's forgetting to include them in that conversation. AMC Grand Chief Merrick said this week, the Premier's failure to engage First Nations on his bail reform–

March 7, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 565 The Speaker: The member's time has expired. Hon. Wab Kinew (Premier): I'll take the opportunity a day early to wish everyone a wonderful International Women's Day. It's a wonderful opportunity to be in the presence of greatness. The former Speaker, former deputy premier, former leader of our party, former MLAs and ministers who are here, people who've led the political movement without elected office.

I'd extend the same wishes across the partisan aisle to our colleague from Tuxedo as the first woman chosen to serve as premier; and of course to the young- est woman MLA ever elected, which I believe was the member for Tyndall Park (MLA Lamoureux) but is now the member for Radisson (MLA Dela Cruz). And so, to everyone who serves in these hallowed halls and is advancing the cause of gender equity by being strong women leaders, we say , thank you, and thank you for your service, to be specific. And just to be clear, I will answer the leader's question in the follow-up sequence.

The Speaker: The honourable interim Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Ewasko: I will get to those questions right away. So, I'm hoping that the P remier has called up the Grand Chief Merrick and apologized for his missteps. But it was reported in the Winnipeg Free Press that the Premier was defensive yesterday. Today, he's defensive again–well, not quite yet, but he will be – about his failed bill–ba il reform an nouncement, and he's repeating a pattern of this when he faces questions of accountability by pointing fingers at others. I get while he –while–why he's being defensive.

He's made–he's way over-promised. He's way under- delivering. And he's under -delivering in many areas, but especially in public safety. There are real victims, real impacts of crime that the Premier cannot run away from. When will the Premier deliver a real bail reform plan or policy, Mr. Deputy–or, Mr. Honourable Speaker? Mr. Kinew: The work to implement bail reform at the provincial level has already begun, under the leader - ship of our Attorney General. We announced some of these plans recently, but of course that work began immediately after the election.

Along the w ay, of course, we did consult with Indigenous stake holders, but we look forward to furthering those discussions with the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs and with other leaders across the province. I want to point out one thing, though. The guidance that we'v e provided to prosecutors, the clarity, the support that we're offering to them is some thing that never happened under the Progressive Conservatives. During their time in office, they were completely silent on the issue.

And while they wanted to point f ingers at the federal gov ernment, we decided Manitobans would prefer a different approach, one where the government shows leadership and does things right away under the areas of our jurisdiction. The Speaker: The honourable interim Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Ewasko: And, I guess, with no phone calls, no conversations, no emails and no plan. Honourable Speaker, the Premier just recently sent a memo to Crown attorneys that they haven't seemed to see–or, received.

His failed bail reform an- nouncement landed with a thud, and critics, including AMC Grand Chief Cathy Merrick and former senator and judge Murray Sinclair, have concluded the NDP approach is both backwards and not effective. Manitoba is unfortunately grappling with a tragedy committed by a violent offender who was out on bail. I would like to offer my condol ences to the family, friends and com munities affected by this horrific crime.

And can the Premier explain why fentanyl dealers and violent offenders are still being released on bail, and can he answer whether the individual who is in jail for this tragedy that I already mentioned will be released on bail? Mr. Kinew: As elected officials, we have a number of responsibilities. Some of thes e are legal respon si- bilities, which mean that, when it comes to the admin- istration of justice, there needs to be a stark division between what we do at the political level and what occurs within the judicial system. Our gov ernment will always respect that division of authority.

But I want to say that there's also a responsibility for us as political leaders to carry ourselves in a way with great reverence for those who are the victims of crimes. I make that comment in respect to the specific instance that I know our colleague from Morden- Winkler has been active on, and, truly, this showing of compassion necessary to respond to the community knows no partisan bounds.

566 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 7, 2024 But I do feel compelled to call out the fact that, while they invoke the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs, the Progressive Conservatives do not have the ability to sit down at the table with that organization because of their shameful conduct in the 2023 general election. Apologize. The Speaker: Order, please. The Premier's time has expired. Bail Reform Government Intention Mr.

Wayne Balcaen (Brandon West): Honourable Speaker, last fall the Premier promised that he would, and I quote, direct the Ministry of Justice to implement stronger conditions on bail within the first 100 days in office. He was elected 156 days ago, and we're no closer to being safe in our –safer in our com munities. He wrote cheques with his mouth that his gov ernment cannot cash. Perhaps his bail platform should be stamped account closed. Will this Premier rise today and admit that he promised more than he can deliver? Hon.

Wab Kinew (Premier): Again, we have a com- prehensive approach when it comes to justice in Manitoba. We're tough on crime. We're tough on the causes of crime. * (14:10) On the justice side, of course, we've brought in measures to support Crown attorneys, to support law enforcement and perhaps most of all, to support you, the people of Manitoba, to feel safer in your commu- nities. At the same time, we're investing in edu cation, a universal meal program, so that kids have a positive path to success in the future instead of being induced down some negative trajectory.

So I simply explained to the member opposite that the difference between our administration and the former one is, they put out the press releases first and never followed up with work. We do the work first, put out the press releases later. The Speaker: The honourable member for Brandon West, on a supplementary question. Mr. Balcaen: Honourable Speaker, I've sat with families of victims that have been in the courtroom as they saw offenders released, only to walk amongst them again. And in far too many cases, I've seen the same individuals brought back before a justice while out on bail.

This Premier thinks that he can solve the problem by instructing Crown prosecutors to oppose bail. This is a problem with our Criminal Code and not judgment of our dedicated legal officials. Bail monitoring is important, but this Premier must do more to ensure Manitobans are protected from repeat violent offenders. He's 56 days late on his promise, so I'll ask again: When can Manitobans expect– The Speaker: Order, please. The member's time is expired. Mr. Kinew: Just to provide greater clarity for the mem- ber, I want to remind him that this work began on day one.

We come out with the press release once the policy is imple mented, once the funding has been approved, once that–all the processes have been put in place. Of course that's a sharp contrast with the Progressive Conservatives, who didn't even budget for any of the promises they made in the lead-up to the last general election, but I believe that we know that the issue of public safety is one of those sacred trusts that we need to treat with great reverence. That's why I was proud to stand with the Attorney General, as well as representatives from the union that represents RCMP officers across the country.

We're starting the work, we're not done the work, but it is very encouraging to hear the National Police Federation say that under this Attorney General, our province is a leader nationally. The Speaker: The honourable member for Brandon West, on a final supplementary. Mr. Balcaen: Honourable Speaker, I have a deep and resounding respect for the dedi cated public servants who take on the thankless role of Crown attorneys and Crown prosecutors. To hear this Premier insinuate that Crown prosecutors could try harder to oppose bail for violent offenders is using Crowns as pawns.

His plan has been called no big r evelation of–or no big reinvention of the wheel by lawyers, and law professors said it could backfire. I guess the only defence lawyer in favour of this plan is the member for Fort Garry (Mr. Wasyliw). With this–will this Premier admit that his measures do not match his promise to Manitobans, and will he

March 7, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 567 let us know when actual, stronger con ditions on bail are coming? Mr. Kinew: This work has already begun. Our Attorney General hit the ground running. We know that the National Police Federation stood with us when we shared the details of the work that we've already been undertaking, and they encouraged other provinces to follow Manitoba's lead.

Now, of course, it's far too early for us to say that, you know, the mission has been accom plished, but rather, it's reassuring to hear that some of our partners in law enforcement are saying that we're on the right path. At the same time we know that we need to address the root causes of crime, and so we're calling a public safety summit, where the voices of com munity and law enforcement and so many of the stakeholders and rights holders will be able to engage with a substantive questions and details about how do we make Manitoba communities safer.

We're making the economy more affordable, we're making the health-care system meet your needs as patients and we're making the streets safer, because we're working for you. MACY Five Year Review Expert Participation in Subcommittee Mrs. Lauren Stone (Midland): On Monday I had the opportunity to intro duce a motion at com mittee to give greater scrutiny to the Manitoba Advocate for Children and Youth legislation. I called for the forma- tion of a non- partisan subcommittee that would in - clude in dependent experts around the table.

The minister herself admitted that she was not an expert on child welfare, yet she blocked experts from having a real voice around the table. Can the minister tell the House why she would want to limit the contribution of subject matter experts in this important review process? Hon. Nahanni Fontaine (Minister of Families): We sat in standing committee on Monday in respect of the MACY five-year review, and I was asked at length for about an hour and 15 minutes, give or take, questions in respect of the motion that the member brought forward. And let me be clear.

It's im portant to understand that the standing com mittee infra structure that we have here in the Manitoba Legislative Assembly is very unique across the country in the sense that experts, citizens, families, voters have the opportunity to come and present at standing committees. We're not limiting in any capacity any experts to come forward. The Speaker: Minister's time has expired. The honourable member for Midland, on a supple- mentary question. Children in CFS Care Call for Debate in Legislature Mrs.

Lauren Stone (Midland): Yesterday my col - league from Tyndall Park brought forward a MUPI on a very critical issue in our province. The Advocate for Children and Youth agreed there should be a debate. The Liberals and the PCs agreed that there should be a debate. But the minister was too busy to have this discussion. Will she rise today and apologize to the foster parents for being too busy to have this discussion? The Speaker: The honour able First Minister–sorry, the honourable Minister of Families. Hon. Nahanni Fontaine (Minister of Families): Miigwech to the member for that question.

Let me just say first and foremost that as minister responsible we value the s acred work that foste r parents do in behalf –on behalf of children in care, taking children into their homes and taking care of them. We value that. That's sacred work. Just earlier this year I had the oppor tunity to meet with the Manitoba Foster Parents Association, and I heard their concerns in my office, as I've spoken with many foster parents. And is the system perfect right now? Absolutely not. And that's why I'm busy working to make that system work for children in care and for all Manitoba children.

The Speaker: The honourable member for Midland, on a final supplementary question. Death of Child in CFS Care Call for Inquiry Mrs. Lauren Stone (Midland): In the past few weeks, seven children have tragically died in care. This in - cludes a child in my own constituency in Carman. A child called CFS to beg for help, but no one answered the phone. This kind of tragedy cannot happen ever again in Manitoba. For years the minister had advocated that more needs to be done for children in care. There's no more time to wait. The minister and the Premier (Mr. Kinew) need to act now before we lose another young person.

568 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 7, 2024 We demand that this minister immediately call an in- quiry into this tragedy. Will the minister stand up here today and commit to that? Hon. Nahanni Fontaine (Minister of Families): I appreciate the concern and the passion that the mem- ber is bringing forward to this Chamber. I think that all of us are devastated in respect of the news that's been happening in the last several weeks. Every child that d ies is an extension of our - selves and our response as Manitobans and the type of province that we want to have. And one of the first things that I did as minister responsi ble is ordered a

section 4 review of all contact in respect of CFS. We are working hard every single day. Our whole team in Families is working hard every single day to prioritize the protection of children, all children. And as our government has said repeatedly, we want to make sure that more children reach their 18th birthday. Miigwech. Ten Ten Sinclair Housing–Health-Care Aide Strike Quality of Care Concerns for Residents Mrs.

Kathleen Cook (Roblin): Over 100 residents at Ten Ten Sinclair facilities are in limbo now that the health-care aides that help them are on strike. * (14:20) A resident from one of the facilities wrote to me yesterday expressing her serious concerns regarding the care that residents like herself will receive during the strike. While she was told that workers would come to help her yesterday morning, no one came. Call after call to various layers of author ity to see if she would be receiving help, with no response at all. These tenants rely on the services of the care workers in this home.

Many are unable to get dressed, shower or feed themselves without this help. What is the minister doing to immediately ensure that these residents receive the care they need and deserve? Hon. Uzoma Asagwara (Minister of Health, Seniors and Long-Term Care): I thank the member opposite for that very important question. I have been in regular contact with the WRHA in regards to this situation.

Our top priority as a govern- ment and certainly, I believe, the top priority of those across the health -care system, is to ensure that the residents at Ten Ten Sinclair continue to receive the care that they depend on, and we are ensuring that there are mechanisms in place. I had a meeting just earlier today, Honour able Speaker, with the WRHA. They've taken steps to ensure that residents are receiving quality care. If the member opposite has a specific concern about a resident, as I've always stated, bring that directly to me; I will imme diately address it.

We all want the same things, for residents to be safe and receive the care that they depend on. The Speaker: The honourable member for Roblin, on a supplementary question. Mrs. Cook: Well, while I ap preciate the response from the minister, this morning we checked in with the resident and up until 10:30 a.m. this morning, she'd heard nothing. No one showed up to help her to get out of bed. She was left lying there, uncertain of whether she'd be getting any help at all today.

Later, she reached out to tell us that help had arrived, but she'd been told that two staff would be available for the facility, where normally there are 10. Does the minister consider two staff where there are normally 10, to be adequate care for some of the most vulnerable people in our society? MLA Asagwara: To answer the member opposite's question directly, no, I do not think that that's adequate care. That is an incredibly concerning piece of informa- tion to hear on the House floor. I would have loved to have gotten that infor mation before being in the Chamber so that I could have addressed it immediately.

This is a situation I take very seriously. The care and safety and dignity of these residents are my top priority. It is the priority of our gov ernment to make sure they receive the care that they depend on. This is some thing I will look into imme diately, and will ensur e that the adequate staffing resources are put in place. Again, if anyone has a concern, you can reach out directly to my office. If you go through your MLA, they should let me know immediately. The Speaker: The honourable member for Roblin, on a final supplementary question.

March 7, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 569 Mrs. Cook: I think that the minister knows by this point in our relationship that I'm not one to politicize these issues. The minister has this correspondence; their office received it yesterday afternoon. It is unacceptable for residents to be forced to worry about whether they can get up and use the bathroom today. It is unacceptable for these residents to be sitting in inhumane conditions without reassurance that workers will show up to help them when they need it the most.

Will the minister assure the residents of Ten Ten Sinclair facilities that there will be no further inter - ruptions to the vital health-care services that they rely on? MLA Asagwara: Honourable Speaker, the top priority for our gov ernment in the dispute between Ten Ten Sinclair and the union is to ensure that residents at all six sites are receiving the care that they depend on. If there are concerns that that is not happening, as minister responsible I will take steps to make sure it's addressed immediately. I have been in contact with the WRHA con - sistently on this matter.

They have taken steps to bring in staff across all sites and have a plan in place until Tuesday of next week. Now, I look forward to working with the member opposite moving forward when these issues arise, but again, our top priority is these residents being safe, having the care they depend on and having dignity in their homes. Our government will take this from the Chamber and action it right away. Building Sustainable Communities Program Inquiry into Application Delays Mr.

Trevor King (Lakeside): Honourable Speaker, municipalities like Brandon, Thompson and Dauphin are making their plans for summer construction and maintenance projects. The Building Sustainable Communities program provided 432 unique projects with over $25 million in funding during the '23- 24 program, and I have the spreadsheets for tabling. This minister seems to be sitting on his hands and taking his time in getting the BSC application portal open for business and money in the hands of Manitobans. What are we to expect from this delay? Is the BSC program on the chopping block? Hon.

Ian Bushie (Minister of Municipal and Northern Relations): Honourable Speaker, $1.6 billion. That's what this gov ernment left, and that's the legacy of what this government is bringing to the table. Now, for some reason, the member opposite wants to be able to listen to the municipalities when under seven years not once did they listen. And I assure the members that we're having those conversa- tions each and every day. We had those conversations in opposition; we have them in gov ernment, and we continue to have them to see how we can grow municipalities across all of Manitoba.

The Speaker: The honourable member for Lakeside, on a supplementary question. Mr. King: Honourable Speaker, normally by this time of year the intake period for the BSC program has already occurred and applications are being vetted. Organizations like APTN loc ated in Union Station, Harvest Manitoba in Notre Dame and 430 others benefitted from the BSC program in '23-24 alone. To date not a single group has had the opportunity to apply, yet alone be approved for the BSC funding. Municipalities and com munity groups are waiting nervously for the NDP to hatch their plan.

When can we tell our con stituents that they will be able to apply for the BSC program? Mr. Bushie: The member opposite uses the word normally, and normally over seven years municipalities would have been able to concentrate and continue to depend on reliable, predictable funding. And they did not get that, not one year, under this Progressive Conservative government. Now the member opposite wants to talk about various aspects of what to be able to–$1.6 billion that they budgeted for, that they accumulated, that they did not know how they were going to spend. $1.6 billion, Honourable Speaker.

They did not know how to manage money. We will–we take a responsible approach and we'll talk to municipalities each and every day. The Speaker: The honourable member for Lakeside, on a final supplementary question. Mr. King: Honourable Speaker, the NDP are developing a bad reputation for pausing and cutting programs. Groups are concerned that the BSC program is part of this trend. Despite this government saying otherwise, there is a real and tangible fear amongst existing recipients that they will not receive their allocated grants.

570 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 7, 2024 Will the minister commit today that all awarded grants, funds which were allocated through the Treasury Board, will be received? Manitobans want to know. Mr. Bushie: I guess the problem there, Mr. Hon our- able Speaker, is they ignored Treasury Board. They went straight off the side of their desks and said, here you go, here you go, here you go.

Honourable Speaker, $1.6 billion–how do you ac- cumulate $1.6 billion in deficit when you do not invest in municipalities? $1.6-billion deficit with no investment in health care, no investment in education, no investment in municipalities. Shame on that government. Shame on that former government for being able to stand here and say where's the money for municipalities when they ignored them each and every day for seven years straight. Community Safety Status of Rebate Program Mr. Jeff Wharton (Red River North): The Premier (Mr.

Kinew) is quick to pat himself on the back on community safety, but folks on the ground disagree with his assessment. The Canadian Federation of Independent Business was quick to point out this an- nouncement about com munity safety completely ig- nored his promise in supports for security, rebates and on Manitoba families and businesses. Has the Premier reneged on this commitment? * (14:30) Hon.

Matt Wiebe (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I wanted to begin by thanking members of the Winnipeg Police Service, who suc cessfully executed very complex warrants and made significant arrests yesterday as part of an ongoing organized crime investigation across several jurisdictions. It's important work, and it's work that we want to continue to partner with them on going forward, because it's important to support our law enforcement across the province.

With regards to supporting communities, the mem- ber knows that we're going to be calling together folks in a public safety summit to talk about ways that we can work together, and we're excited– The Speaker: Minister's time has expired. The honourable member for Red River North, on a supplementary question. Mr. Wharton: No one who followed the career of the Premier is surprised to see him walking back on these public safety commit ments and half -baked excuses for policies. That is what he does.

Says what you want, you–what you think you want to hear, and then while no one's actually paying attention, he just doesn't do it. Will the Premier commit today to following through on his commitment to make small businesses in Manitoba and Manitoba families safer today? Mr. Wiebe: Well, the member opposite should know that we got to work on day one at helping make our province a safer place. We started by making the com- mitment and working with municipalities to fund law enforcement all across this province, some thing that the member opposite never did.

In fact, seven years of cuts have left our munici- palities feeling like they're on the outside when it comes to enhancing and supporting citizens within their communities. We're going to get to work supporting community; we're going to get to work hiring mental- health workers to support our law enforce ment. And we're going to partner with law enforcement to ensure that we can make our com munities safer each and every day. The Speaker: The honourable member for Red River North, on a final supplementary question. Mr.

Wharton: The Canadian Federation of Indepen- dent Business are looking out for their members, and has called on the Premier to keep his word. They are trying to keep their employees and their busi nesses safe. Can the Premier please recognize how important this issue is to many, many Manitobans, and answer the question: When will he provide the security rebates that he promised them? Mr. Wiebe: Members opposite will know that we just recently enacted legislation that will support commu- nity safety officers and First Nations safety officers throughout this province.

They are eager to work with law enforcement to ensure that our communities stay safe. And they are eager to work with us and commu- nity to make sure that we enable neighbourhoods and communities to work towards public safety. I know the minister –the member opposite has been very eager to read the mandate letter that's been issued to me. We're hard at work. I think he's going to see some exciting news coming forward. I ask him to simply stay tuned.

March 7, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 571 Auditor General Report on Foster Homes Implementation of Recommendations MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): The Auditor General report on foster home management, which was produced nearly five year s ago, made a number of recommendations to improve the safety and security of children. Its follow-up report showed that none of the recom mendations made to the De partment of Families had been implemented. Amidst the crisis in CFS, can the minister tell the House how many of the AG's recom mendations on foster homes have been implemented to date? Hon.

Nahanni Fontaine (Minister of Families): Miigwech to the member opposite for the question on foster-care rates. I think it's important to, again, let me just situate our government's position on–in respect of the sacredness that–on the role that foster parents have in dealing with child care here in Manitoba. I think it's really im portant that, you know, our government is focused on provi ding the best homes for children and youth that come in the care of a CFS agency. And we are working with everyone to get this right: Indigenous leaders, community members, mem- bers from other parties as well.

And we owe it to the next generation of Manitobans to work together in respect of this. The Speaker: The honourable member for Tyndall Park, on a supplementary question. MLA Lamoureux: In the Auditor General report, it was found that dozens of children are living in foster- care homes with adults that don't have their criminal record or child abuse checks. In 45 files, well over half did not have the background checks that should be required. The minister had the opportunity to talk about this yesterday but chose not to, because she was –and she said–she was too busy to do her job.

So, Honourable Speaker, maybe now is she too busy to do her job? Will she share with the House whether this government will work to implement this recommendation ensuring more safety for children in care? MLA Fontaine: Again, once again, I appre ciate the question from the member opposite. The member will know that in the last seven and a half years under the previous PC gov ernment there was little action or concern in respect of child welfare in its totality.

And, certainly, there was little concern or action in respect of ensuring the safety of foster homes or group homes, and hence why we have the recommendations that came out. We are actively engaged in fixing the mess that the previous government left in respect of child welfare, including the former government, in respect of legis- lating away the– The Speaker: The minister's time has expired. The honourable member for Tyndall Park, on a final supplementary question.

Children in CFS Emergency Care Qualifications of Staff MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): Honour- able Speaker, this gov ernment needs to start taking some responsibility because they are the ones in gov- ernment right now. In a recent media report, the Manitoba advo cate for youth said that the emergency shelter staff are often hired with minimal qualifi cations–who aren't always trained to deal with complex concerns like mental health, addictions and trauma.

Since all the emergency shelters are licensed by the Province, can the minister explain why emergency shelter staff don't even have minimal required qualifi- cations to deal with our most vulnerable youth? Hon. Nahanni Fontaine (Minister of Families): Miigwech to the member opposite for her questions in respect of EPRs. Let me just say this, as the minister respon sible, coming into this role for the last four -plus months, it is absolutely shocking to see the state that the former government left child welfare.

And, again, I want to take an oppor tunity to just lift up the staff that we have in the De partment of Families that, despite the lack of concern or dedication or commitment to fixing child welfare, opposite – members opposite made it only worse –despite that, our staff have been working very, very hard to ensure the safety of Manitoba children that are currently in care. And we will continue to– The Speaker: Member's time has expired.

Health-Care Facilities–Staff and Patient Safety Placement of Institutional Safety Officers MLA Jelynn Dela Cruz (Radisson): The Minister of Health, Seniors and Long-Term Care has made it clear that safety in our health in stitutions is a top priority. They have been meeting with front -line workers,

572 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 7, 2024 administrators and labour leaders to discuss concerns around the safety of health -care staff and patients – concerns that went ignored by the previous gov ern- ment. Can the minister update the House on the progress being made to address this very important issue? Hon. Uzoma Asagwara (Minister of Health, Seniors and Long-Term Care): Honourable Speaker, I have been meeting with front -line workers, touring emer - gency departments, talking with union reps, and many folks are expressing similar concerns on this very im- portant issue.

Many people have pointed out how 'disapornid'– disappointed they were in the previous gov ernment's inability to deliver on their own promise to institute institutional safety officers in our emergency rooms– another broken PC promise. So, I am happy to stand here today as part of a new government that listens to front -line health-care workers and works with them to say that we are moving forward on plans to increase safety for patients and staff. On March 18, ISOs will begin their two -week training, after which they will immediately be brought on site at the ED at HSC.

Emergency departments, we know, are places where some folks go at our most vul- nerable times– The Speaker: Member's time has expired. MPI Special Risk Extension Policies Inquiry into Insurance Delays for Trucking Industry Mr.

Konrad Narth (La Vérendrye): My question is for the Minister respon sible for Manitoba Public Insurance. * (14:40) With 95 per cent of goods moved within Manitoba depending on truck transport, and Manitoba's for-hire trucking carriers directly and indirectly contribute to more than $2 billion of Manitoba's GDP, can the minister please answer why there has been a more than three-month freeze on new special risk extension policies, which has been financially devastating to many trucking companies and owner operators by grounding them along with their high-priced equipment. Hon.

Matt Wiebe (Minister responsible for the Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation): Well, the member seems upset that it's taking us longer to clean up the mess that the previous government left us than he'd like. But there's a lot of work to do, and if he had spent some time at com mittee with us the other day, he would have heard that directly from officials at MPI. They identified that the mis management at MPI that the former CEO, that the board that the former gov- ernment put in place, hand-picked board that they put in place, created a mess at MPI.

We're committed to cleaning it up, and we're going to get the work done. The Speaker: The honourable member for La Vérendrye, on a supplementary question. Mr. Narth: After speaking with a number of MPI brokers, it is clear that they have all been given the same lack of direction around the hold on new SRE policies. So my question for the minister again is: What is he doing to ensure truckers and the trucking industry have access to insurance products they need right here in Manitoba through our prov incial Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation? Mr.

Wiebe: One of the first actions that this gov ern- ment took was put in place a new board at MPI and end the strike–the 10-week, politically motivated strike– brought by the members opposite. There's no question that the strike had an impact on the service delivery at MPI. That's not my words; that's the words of the member at com mittee just the other day, who admitted that this has had a serious impact on MPI and the delivery. We have identified the problems. We have put in a new board, a new CEO. It's a new day at MPI. We're going to clean up the former government's mess.

The Speaker: The time for oral questions has expired. Petitions? [interjection] Order. Petitions? No petitions? Grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY (Continued) GOVERNMENT BUSINESS Hon. Nahanni Fontaine (Government House Leader): Honourable Speaker, can you please call for second reading of Bill 7, followed by second reading of Bill 6. The Speaker: It has been announced by the Govern- ment House Leader that we'll call for second reading of Bill 7, followed by second reading of Bill 6.

March 7, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 573 SECOND READINGS Bill 7–The Public Sector Construction Projects (Tendering) Repeal Act The Speaker: So, calling for second reading of Bill 7, The Public Sector Construction Projects (Tendering) Repeal Act. The–sorry. Hon. Malaya Marcelino (Minister of Labo ur and Immigration): I move, seconded by the Minister of Sport, Culture, Heritage and Tourism (Mr. Simard), that Bill 7, The Public Sector Construction Projects (Tendering) Repeal Act; Loi abrogeant la

Loi sur les projets de construction dans le secteur public, be now read a second time and be referred to a com mittee of this House. Motion presented. MLA Marcelino: Honourable Speaker, it is my pleasure to rise and speak about the repeal of The Public Sector Construction Projects (Tendering) Act. The repeal of the act will no longer ban project labour agree ments in Manitoba. In 2021, against the wishes of the busi ness and labour communities, the previous government enacted The Public Sector Construction Projects (Tendering) Act, banning the use of project labour agreements, or PLAs, in the public sector.

Project labour agreements are agreements between the contractor of a specific construction project and the unions that perform the construction work. These agree- ments govern all working condi tions such as wages, benefits and working hours for a specific duration of a construction project. Project labour agreements are seen globally as useful in reducing risks of disruptions on critical infra- structure projects. Agree ments cover wages, ensur e safe, high-quality construction and prevent work stop- pages, thereby providing a level of cost certainty to a project while in progress.

These agreements serve as valuable workforce development tools in an era of labour shortages across the sector. PLAs often include provisions for local com mu- nity employment, workforce diversity and apprentice- ship spots to train future genera tions in the skilled trades. Repealing the act would allow the public sector employers to tender or enter into PLAs that require labour agreements as a condition if they want to, but does not mandate tenders or project labour agreements to include unionization as a requirement.

Our government made a commitment to Manitobans to grow the economy with good jobs, and PLAs do just that by protecting workers' rights and prioritizing high-quality construction while fostering local em - ployment and training opportunities that contribute to a skilled local workforce. The legacy of the previous gov ernment's back - ward approach to labour relations has Manitoba as the only Canadian juris diction to have legis lation that prohibits project labour agreements.

Our government's introduction of this bill repeal- ing the ban would provide a means for achieving work- force diversity, local hiring, skill dev elopment and workplace safety and health. Contractors will also benefit as project labour agree- ments establish the framework for efficient comple - tion of a project, ensuring that the project is completed on budget and on time. Repealing the act would advance our gov ern- ment's commitments to protect workers' jobs and to always back the rights of working people. Thank you, Hon ourable Speaker, for the op por- tunity to speak to this bill.

Questions The Speaker: A question period of up to 15 minutes will be held. Questions may be addressed to the minister by any opposition or independent member in the following sequence: first question by the official opposition critic or designate; subsequent questions asked by critics or designates from other recognized opposition parties; subsequent questions asked by each independent member; remaining questions asked by any opposition members. And no question or answer shall exceed 45 seconds. Mr.

Derek Johnson (Interlake-Gimli): Yes, can the minister please tell us who they consulted with outside of their union friends? Hon. Malaya Marcelino (Minister of Labour and Immigration): Thank you to the member opposite for the question. We did consult with the Manitoba Building Trades Institute, and the Premier (Mr. Kinew) actually consulted with Bram Strain, Ash Modha and Michael Pyle.

574 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 7, 2024 * (14:50) Consultations are actually ongoing. Just today, I spoke to the CEO, Chris Lorenc of the Manitoba Heavy Construction Association, and more consul ta- tions are occurring. However, at the same time, this is a repeal of a ban– The Speaker: Minister's time has expired. Mr. Richard Perchotte (Selkirk): COR safety cer - tification is a standard used in the construction industry. It has job hazard analysis, tool box talks, making sure employees are safe. What will this bill do that is not already there for the safety of people?

MLA Marcelino: Thank you to the member opposite for that question. This bill is a repeal of the ban, so it's basically just taking out a ban. Going forward, gov ernment, public sector entities such as Crown cor porations, will be able to assess a project and determine whether or not they want to go the route of a PLA or go through a different route, as they've been doing for the last seven or eight years. The choice is going to be theirs. You know, presumably for major critical infra structure projects, especially up North, the PLA would be a great way to go.

For other types of projects, given the responsi - bility of what the de partments are going to be deter - mining– The Speaker: Minister's time has expired. [interjection] Thank you. Mr. Jeff Wharton (Red River North): Building on the minister's last comment and the release yesterday, the member mentions that the public sector entitles the option to require contractors building on infra struc- ture projects to employ a unionized force. Will there be, in regula tion, something that will allow outside private sector to be involved in all projects in Manitoba?

MLA Marcelino: Thank you, member opposite, for your question. You know, during the legis lation, back in 2017, and it got passed in 2021, you know, members oppo - site kept talking about forced unionization. And this was totally proven to–and it was totally proven and it was debunked, all the way up to–even to the Supreme Court of Canada–that these PLAs were forcing people to unionize. That was not happening.

In fact, even in the last time that the PLAs were used for Keeyask and for the Red River Floodway, 77 per cent of those contractors that were employed in building these major critical infrastructure projects were not unionized. Thank you, Honourable Speaker. Mr. Johnson: Yes, the member–the minister said that she consulted with different organizations. Did she consult with Merit Contractors Association of Manitoba? They represent 6,000 contractors in Manitoba. MLA Marcelino: Thank you, member opposite, for that question.

No, I did not consult with Merit Contractors but, like I said, c onsultations and relationship building is still ongoing. I do have another conversation scheduled for–I think sometime this weekend or tomorrow–with folks from the Manitoba Employers Council. Conversations are ongoing. Relationships are – continue to be built. We need to have strong re la- tionships as a government with both the workers and the labour groups as well as with the busi ness com- munity in order for us to forward the goals of prosperity across all Manitoba, okay.

So these relationships are going to continue to be fostered, and I'm open to any and all conver sations with other people, unlike– The Speaker: Minister's time has expired. Mr. Wayne Balcaen (Brandon West): Can the minister give an esti mate of the impact to costs th at this will have on gov ernment tendered projects? With less eligible bidders there'll be less competitiveness and higher prices for Manitobans. MLA Marcelino: Thank you to the member for Brandon West for your question. You know, this is a very important question.

You know, our taxpayers demand, and rightfully so, that as a gov ernment, we're responsi ble for the funds that are entrusted to us. Okay? So, before we go into any types of contracts with folks, we have to make sure that what they're offering, that they're going to be able to do this on time and on budget. There is no proof out there that shows that PLAs will cost more down the road. We've taken a look at the evidence, and a lot of it actually, unfor tunately, doesn't–

March 7, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 575 The Speaker: The minister's time is expired. Mr. Johnson: Yes, the minister has clearly explained that she's bringing this bill forward before consulting entirely with the workforce. So can the minister explain why they are letting their ideology guide their legis lative agenda and not the principles of open and fair tendering, choice and competition? MLA Marcelino: Thank you, member opposite, for your question. Ideology. If I was going to be ideological, then I would be mirroring what the ban was, okay?

And the mirror image of that would be to mandate PLAs for every single public sector project, and that is not what we're doing. We are not banning it, like what you did, and we're not mandating it, like what would be an ideological response. Instead, we are lifting this ban so that there is choice that the government can make. And again, every single juris diction in Canada has this choice except us. So that is where the ideology was: with the pre - vious gov ernment, by putting an unneces sary and foolish ban. That's where it was. Mr.

Wharton: How does Bill 7 increase equity in tendering contract bids for Manitobans, and how does it protect Manitoba taxpayers? MLA Marcelino: Oh, sorry, I didn't hear it –hear the question. Mr. Wharton: How does Bill 7 increase equity in tendering contract bids for Manitobans? MLA Marcelino: What I heard was how does it impact tendering. Again, this is just a repeal on the ban.

So, going forward, for example, the Minister of Trans portation and Infrastructure and consumer government services will be able to take a look at the projects and then decide which route that they're going to go, if they're going to go with the PLA route or if they're going to go with the open tendering bids. So it's not going to be specifically telling them which way to go. This is just a process activity. I'd like to, you know, calm any waters that might be rifled right now, because this is still just making us in line with other– The Speaker: Minister's time is expired. Mr.

Balcaen: We heard earlier about t he 6,000 con- tractors in Manitoba that maybe should be consulted with, but based on the imme diate backlash from industry groups, will the minister repeal her bill? * (15:00) MLA Marcelino: Thank you for the question. No, we will not be taking back this bill. This is a very, very im portant bill. This is going to allow the government to make the choice, especially for major, critical infrastructure projects, like up North.

I was just talking to Chris Lorenc this afternoon, and he told me that it makes sense for governments to engage in PLAs, especially if it's in those types of projects. So, again, we need to have that flexibility to be able to make the proper choice for the proper project. Thank you, Honourable Speaker. Mr. Perchotte: Can the mi nister explain why non - unionized workers should have to pay union dues? MLA Marcelino: That does happen when there are PLAs engaged.

It doesn't –and the reason why, if a worker wants to participate in a PLA-type of project, they are going to be benefitting from that agreement that was negotiated by that union. The wages are pre- determined. Their working hours are pre-determined. Any kinds of health and safety requirements are going to be pre-determined. And a lot of work was put into making sure that the agreement was going to be able to satisfy the needs of that project. These are multi-year projects; these are major projects, and we want to make sure that there is high-quality work going into it.

We don't want to pay a lot less now, and then later on we have to make up for all the mistakes that were made before. We want to make sure, that especially on these very, very im portant critical infra structure projects, that there is high-quality work. The Speaker: Minister's time has expired. Mr. Johnson: It's a long-standing tradition in this build- ing that critics get a bill briefing prior to the bill coming on the floor here. That might answer a lot of questions, help the critic understand the bill.

Can the minister please, please explain to Manitobans and the critic and the people on this side of the House why she is bringing forward a bill without a bill briefing, as the long -standing tradition has been?

576 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 7, 2024 MLA Marcelino: Thank you, member opposite. I think that's an oversight on my part that I would take responsibility for. I did speak to my critic this afternoon, and I informed her that as for her, as well as for the member for Tyndall Park (MLA Lamoureux), I was 'hopening' to be able to meet with them on Monday morning to be able to talk about this bill, as well as the employment standards amendment act that I put forward today. Mr.

Doyle Piwniuk (Turtle Mountain): Honourable Speaker, I just want to know if the minister has actually contacted, say, the private sector when it comes to employment services companies, like Pinnacle, or companies that would–do supply a lot of staff to, let's say, heavy construction industry, to contractors who are going to be doing a lot of the work here, because there's a shortage of em ployment out there, and the thing is it's important that everybody's on board here when it comes to a bill like this. Thank you, Honourable Speaker. MLA Marcelino: Thank you, member opposite, for your question.

I want to emphasize that this is a repeal of the ban. It is not mandating the government to now go on into every single government service project now to have, you know, to enter into a PLA. This is just removing that very unnecessary ban in the first place. Going forward it'll be business as usual, as it is in every other jurisdiction in Canada when governments are going and taking a look at what type of process that they want to do for the project–for that particular project.

We're just putting us in line with the rest of Canada and removing that unnecessary and foolish ideological ban that was placed– The Speaker: Minister's time has expired. The time for questions has expired. Debate The Speaker: The floor is open for debate. The honourable minister for Interlake-Gimli. Mr. Derek Johnson (Interlake-Gimli): Yes, thank you, Honourable–minister? Oh, okay, member? The Speaker: The honourable member for Interlake- Gimli. Mr. Johnson: Yes, it's a–how soon we forget, but yet we don't, right?

So, this legislation was originally brought in back in the day to have a responsi bility for the tax dollars for Manitobans. I think we can all agree –and I know contractors, when they're bringing a tender forward and they have to pay union dues, they just increase the percentage of their bid. They add that in, and that costs Manitobans money. That's our taxpayers' dollars that the NDP doesn't appear to care about. Also, there's a lot that just don't participate. They're worried that they participate in these projects and they will be unionized in a matter of a week or so of being on the job.

Now, the members opposite are not only –it's not just them suggesting that unionized workers are more competent to perform the work in Manitoba. I feel we have a lot non-unionized contractors that are every bit as competent as unionized contractors. There is–Merit alone has 6,000. They represent 6,000 different contractors in Manitoba, and they were not even consulted; they were not on the call list of this minister because they are –they represent non- unionized workers. And maybe they were inten - tionally left out; I don't know; that's for the minister to answer.

We could've asked those questions if we're in the bill briefing, but that did not happen either. It seems like the ideology is being put in front of everything else here in Manitoba. It is not equal op- portunity for different organi zations to bid on pro- jects. Now, we've seen this multiple times here, in not just the press, but the NDP, their get-togethers, and the unions are the NDP; that is the words right out of the union leader's mouth. So, this bill is nothing about anything else but ideology to line the pockets of all of the unions.

And that money is coming from the taxpayers because the bills are being –the bills that are submitted by the contractors are being increased to cover those ad di- tional costs. Those costs don't come right out of their pocket; the workers get paid more money, and then those union dues, that kickback, goes directly back to members opposite's buddies. So, we know the NDP, they work strictly with the unions. Public sector entities them selves should be prohibited from paying fees to a union in respect of construction work being awarded to a non- union company.

I think if we look back across history, take the diversion around Winnipeg, the floodway, there is

March 7, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 577 evidence of how much that increased the bids. And I know contractors that worked on there. I know em - ployees that worked on there, and they were furious about having to pay union dues. They would've rather given the union dues to a charity than to the unions. It was not fair to them to have that forced upon them. It was not a choice. So, again, we've heard over and over again that unions are the NDP, and that's why this ideology is being brought forward.

Now, the minister spoke of speaking with Chris Lorenc this morning, who represents Manitoba Heavy Construction Association, and that consul tation was short and almost non -existent, and I think they'd be surprised to find out that most of the members of Manitoba Heavy Construction Association do not support this ideology. Now, Merit Contractors of Manitoba have clearly come out in the media and said that this is a ludicrous way to move forward; that's not a quote, otherwise I'd table it.

But that was the gist of their media, was some- thing that the NDP are just pushing upon the contractors. * (15:10) So, if you don't want to pay union dues, you don't get a job from the Province of Manitoba. If you're willing to pay union dues then we'll give you the job, and as I said, that kickback goes all the way back to the unions. Now, back in 2018 when we introduced this bill, there was actually some work done behind it. It wasn't ideology.

There was a market research survey con - ducted by NRG Research Group, asked–and they asked Manitobans if they believed that it was fair to force workers to join a union that they don't want to belong to. And 74 per cent said that it was unfair. Unfair to force people to pay union dues to a union that they don't want to belong to, but they're still forced to pay the dues.

Now, the survey also found that 58 per cent of the respondents agreed that forcing members of a non - union company to join a specific union and pay union dues trampled on their con stitutional rights to choose which people or organizations that they associate with. So what that is, is you don't have a choice of what union that your money is going to. Maybe you would rather go to the nursing union than you would the Operating Engineers, for example. You don't have a choice. Where–maybe you want to submit your dues to Merit rather than the Teamsters union.

So, and I know there's people in this Chamber that have belonged to a lot of unions over the time. Honourable Speaker, I can't even count the amount of unions that I've belonged to. I've worked around the world in different mines, as far away as Indonesia, and as a contractor I went to different mines, and I was personally forced to pay union dues in a province –to a union in a province that I didn't even reside in. I didn't feel it was fair.

Now, over and above that, there were also–this is back to the survey that was conducted, so it wasn't just, like I said, ideology–they were also asked if they believed it was unfair that Manitobans are denied work on big government construction projects because they refused to pay union dues. And 64 per cent of the respondents answered, it is unfair. In other words, if a company refuses to pay those union dues, they will not be awarded that work. That's not fair for companies that are not unionized.

So also they were asked if they believed if it was fair for Manitoba workers to be forced to pay union dues to other unions other than the ones they–that they already belong to. So even if a member already belongs to a union, for example a Teamsters union, and they may be forced to pay to Operating Engineers; 84 per cent of the respondents said that this was unfair. I think the ideology that the government benches are bringing forward is not fair to Manitobans or to the taxpayers of Manitobans. This will drive up the price of contracts in Manitoba.

So Merit Contractors association president, Yvette Milner, was quoted in the Free Press on March 6, shortly after the minister intro duced this legis lation. This is a quote now: "This is a step backwards, quite frankly. The repeal of this bill will have a negative impact on all of our members on a go-forward basis." So obviously the minister has not consulted with them. That was quite evident in the questioning, and they represent 170 different companies with 6,000 different workers, right here in the province of Manitoba. And the act that the NDP is repealing represents choice.

They are taking choice away from Manitobans. It represents competition. When there's competition in tenders, you have reduced costs. You– competition, they sharpen their pencils a little bit more to try and get the work, but when you get rid of competition it drives up the price of the projects in Manitoba.

578 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 7, 2024 And, does the NDP government care? No. That's coming out of taxpayers' pockets. Now, it's very important to promote open and fair tendering. I think if we look around basically the majority of the world, there's open and fair tendering. People cost everything in; they figure what they can do it for; t hey try and be more efficient than their competitors, and then those savings are turned over to the taxpayers. In this case, the projects will see an unfair es cal- ation in prices, and that's unfair to the taxpayers in Manitoba.

Now I know the NDP does n't believe in getting value for money, but it is im portant. Like, they are now the stewards of the public dollar, and they need to understand the common sense idea that when the number of bidders for a contract is increased, it decreases the price; you have more competition. The likelihood of saving taxpayers' dollars goes up dramatically the more people you can engage in the bidding process. So, the value for money increases.

So, they are now going to limit who can bid on these specific tenders and gi ve them out to their friends and give a kickback to their union friends here in Manitoba. Because, as we heard, and we've seen it over and over again at different conferences, the NDP is the union; the unions are the NDP. This is nothing but a kickback to their union friends. Now again I would ask that the minister would consider repealing this legis lation that she's put forward, or that they have put forward, and do a ful - some consultation. There's still time to repeal this bill and actually do some consultations.

It was very clear, as I said earlier in question period, that the member has not consulted with everybody that should be consulted with, with this legislation. Again, just Merit alone is 170 different com - panies and they employ about 6,000 workers. Their voice–all of them; voters, taxpayers here in the pro- vince of Manitoba–their voice has not been heard by this minister.

Now, the choice: the choice that somebody can decide to do, whether they want to pay union dues or not, the company should be able to choose if they want to be unionized and if they're organized fairly–and so be it if the workers come forward and organize the company; that's the choice of the workers –but they should not be forced to go through this. And, again, competition: the competition is so im- portant with the taxpayers' dollars. You know, we've balanced the budget twice, as the PC gov ernment.

Last time was –the first time was a $35 -million surplus; this last time was over a quarter-of-a-billion- dollar surplus. [interjection] Yes, that's worthy of applause, thank you. Now, I want to thank all the members that did all the hard work, that sat on Treasury Board over that period of time to do the hard work, to get that budget balanced. It was very important for Manitobans.

And I know we had a worldwide pandemic that had all governments back into the red again, but it's so important to be competitive with the taxpayers' dollars and have the work in a competitive fashion so you're not artificially increasing the prices and promote that open and fair tendering. * (15:20) So, it's not fair that this is only going to be –the work is only going to be open to unionized workers and that money only goes to the unions. Maybe there's other organi zations–there's em - ployees that get together and they are actually share- holders of the company.

The company allows them to purchase a piece of equipment, and then that equip- ment works on shares, and they chose that rather than unionizing. It's a way to make–show–build some equity as an employee in a company. And those non-unionized companies are now –thank you very much–are now – individual employees own a part of that company and they will also have their voice muted by this minister.

So, again we asked about who the ministe r con- sulted with, and there was very, very few –other than the unions–very few companies that I heard and repre- sentatives of those specific companies that were listed, but one major one –or, almost all the ones that were left out–were non-unionized companies. Sorry, Honourable Speaker, I still have a throat–I got a grandson that is in daycare and I swear he's a petri dish so every time I see him I get something – catch something new from him but I've had this for a while so it's not contagious. It's all good.

But again, back to the consultations, or their lack of, by this minister. I think that she still has the time– they still have the time to repeal this bill and do fulsome consul tations. It's so im portant to engage Manitobans. Previously, the previous previous NDP gov ern- ment, they did not consult at all. Our gov ernment

March 7, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 579 brought in EngageMB and it's a powerful tool that allows not just unions to have their say, but everyday Manitobans can have discussions on topics if that tool was used. And we have not seen it on EngageMB. We have not seen it there, and if I'm mistaken, I would be more than happy to go on EngageMB and fill out my opinion on this legislation, but so far, the minister has not put it on there. So, they're consulting with their union friends but not every single Manitoban. They're not given the option to have their voice heard. Now, of course the unions do.

But not every single member that belongs to a union actually sup - ports where their union dollars go to. They may sup- port the union; they don't necessarily support where theirs–those dollars go to. Especially when those dollars become political. So, I have had a lot of people come forward in my constituency that disapprove of how their union dollars are spent. So, those specific individuals, through EngageMB, should have the oppor tunity to have their voices heard. But, as we've heard, the unions are the NDP. The NDP is the unions.

Now, I've worked in the union sector, I've worked in the non-union sector, and members that are in the non-union sector, they shouldn't be discouraged from being able to work for some of these companies that will be handed out these jobs from the NDP Treasury Board, just given to the union companies. That's not how the stewards of our dollars should be. It should be competitive bidding. So, again when we actually brought this bill in originally, the one that's being repealed by this minister, we did the consultations. We did the consul- tations with labour. We also did it with employers.

And this minister has not given what I would consider a fulsome list of people who were consulted with. And the more people you consult with, it gives a more balanced approach. You can weigh every - body's input. Whether you like it or not, you still have to weigh it, take into consid eration. And that's why I would ask this minister to repeal this motion that she brought forward today. Now, the minister has–will hopefully continue to consult with a fulsome list, where that hasn't happened yet. How about the Canadian Federation of Inde pen- dent Business? How about the Winnipeg Construction Association?

There's many companies around the province that do work and they bid on work to–so much as snow removal. In our schools or our hospitals, are they now going to be forced to pay union wages? Any work for the Province of Manitoba, is that what's going to be brought in, here? Just based on ideology? That's not fair to Manitobans, and it's definitely not fair to the taxpayers. That is a respon sibility of Treasury Board and this NDP government. So I don't know if the minister even consulted with Treasury Board, or did they just jam this through Cabinet and bring it forward?

But they definitely didn't consult with as many people as they should've. How about the Construction Labour Relations Association of Manitoba? Fulsome discussions with Manitoba Heavy Construction Associa- tion–that hasn't happened yet. I hope it will. And based on their ideology, it sounds like it'll be a five-minute phone call, and ram it through. And end of story. That is not fair to the taxpayers of Manitoba. Now again, back in 2018 we actually did the research and we did the surveys, and we –I talked about that already.

But I want to reiterate that the survey found that 58 per cent of respondents agreed that forcing members of a non-union company to join a specific union or pay union dues trampled on their constitutional rights to choose which people or organi- zations that they are associated with. So that's saying that the futu re employee, now, with the Province of Manitoba, on any construction job that we have, will not have a say, even if they're non- unionized, where their union dues go. They have to pay union dues, even if they are not unionized. How is that fair?

Now I tal ked about –64 per cent of respondents also thought it was unfair where they were –if they believed it was unfair that Manitobans are denied work on big government construction projects because they refused to pay union dues. I have multiple construction companies in my constituency, and a lot of them are Indigenous-owned, and they're very proud of where they come from and what they have now. And I know that the majority of them are non-unionized. And they will be forced –these Indigenous construction com - panies will be forced to pay union dues, whether they believe it is right or not.

And our study shows that the overall Manitobans' opinion says that it is unfair for this to be shoved down their throats. Now also, 84 per cent of the respondents

580 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 7, 2024 thought it was unfair when they were asked if they believed it was fair for Manitoba workers to be forced to pay union dues to other unions than the ones they already belong to. So if they belong to Operating Engineers, for example, and they will be forced to pay to Teamsters, or vice versa, maybe they belong to Teamsters and they'll be forced to pay to Operating Engineers. Who is the judge of where the union dues will go? Is that going to be Treasury Board?

Is that going to come right off the minister's desk; they d ecide what union gets the money from these union dues? Who makes that decision? What if it's a mixed contract of labour and operators, Teamsters? * (15:30) And where does that money go? Does that money just go to their favourite union of the day, the ones who've put out the most ads supporting the NDP gov- ernment? That's not fair, and that's not fair to tax - payers.

And, again, increasing the number of people who bid on any work, whether–Honourable Speaker, if you were to get a roof fixed on your house, would you just, you know, narrow it down to one or two tenders, or would you encourage to get prices and quotes from, oh, I don't know, 10 or a dozen different ones? I would think it would be the latter. You'd get as many as pos- sible, because you have mo re competition, and the more competition you have, the more money that would stay in your pocket because there is com - petition there. And you owe it to your family.

This NDP gov ernment owns it–owes it to Manitoba taxpayers to keep that money in the tax - payers' pockets. But, as we've seen in the previous 17 years with the NDP gov ernment, there wasn't a tax that they didn't like or hike. And this is just the start of it. This is undoubtedly going to increase the dollar amounts of tenders for work that is going to be done here in Manitoba. And that–like I said, it doesn't come out of the NDP caucus coffers. This comes out of Manitoba tax- payers' pockets and goes to the, as it says here, the NDP union friends: The NDP is the union. The unions are the NDP.

So I would endeavour to ask the minister to consult. And the lack of consul tation so far, I think this bill should be repealed today. There's still an op - portunity to do that. I'll check with the clerks what the process would be for the minister to do that. I'll finish speaking first, but I'll check that process to maybe pass on to the minister so they would be aware of how to repeal this. I just–it's not fair, and it's not fair to the taxpayers of Manitoba. And every single taxpayer in Manitoba is paying our salaries here, and our decisions should be based upon protecting the taxpayer dollar.

Now, again, the bill briefing, I just want to say a few things about that. It's a long, long- standing tradition to have a bill briefing for the critic and one staff member. When we were in gov ernment, we did it for NDP caucus, did it for Liberal caucus. And not just the MLA, but a staff member they could bring along to help them and take notes and ensure that the understanding of the bill was there for the critic. That has not happened here on Bill 7, and I appre- ciate that the minister apologized for her missteps, but it is important that that happens.

And I'm hoping that we can adjourn the debate so we can have our critic more informed on this topic. Maybe there's something we're missing; I don't think so. I think this is just ramming through NDP ideology without consultations, without letting the critic know what the repercussions and the ripple effects of this bill are going to be. And, again, Merit Contractors. As I said, Yvette Milner was quoted in the Free Press on March 6th, right after the minister intro duced this bill, and I just want to end on this quote: This is a step backwards, quite frankly.

The repeal of this bill will have a nega- tive impact on all members on a go-forward basis. Thank you, Honourable Speaker. Hon. Matt Wiebe (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I move, seconded by the Hon ourable Government House Leader, that the debate–[interjection] I move, seconded b y the Minister of Families (MLA Fontaine), that the debate now be adjourned. Motion agreed to. The Speaker: The debate is adjourned and shall stand in the name of the honour able Minister of Justice for 30 minutes remaining.

Bill 6–The Manitoba Assistance Amendment Act The Speaker: As agreed, we'll now go on to second reading of Bill 6, The Manitoba Assist ance Amend- ment Act.

March 7, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 581 Hon. Nahanni Fontaine (Minister of Families): I move, seconded by the Minister for Justice, that Bill 6, The Manitoba Assistance Amendment Act, be now read a second time and be referred to a committee of this House. Motion presented. MLA Fontaine: I'm proud to stand up in the House and bring forward some brief comments in respect of Bill 6, The Manitoba Assistance Amendment Act.

The Manitoba Assistance Act establishes and defines the financial assistance and other benefits that are available through the Em ployment and Income Assistance Program to Manitobans that have no other way to support themselves and their families. The act also establishes em ployment obligations to maintain ongoing eligibility for benefits. Persons enrolled in the medical barriers to full em ployment category of EIA, and the single parents under –with children under six are exempt from em ployment obligations.

The majority of other programs beneficiaries gener- ally engage in employment enhancement measures or supportive planning to remain eligible for full financial benefits. Bill 6 updates The Manitoba Assist ance Act by making it explicit that the director must consider whether adult edu cation is the most ap propriate em- ployment enhancement measure for an individual to undertake in fulfillment of their work expectations.

In practice, the activities that will fulfill work ex- pectations are deter mined through assessment of the recipient's personal circumstances, and through discus- sion between the EIA recipient and their case coun - sellor. Activities that fulfill work ex pectations can range from partici pation in em ployment program - ming, educational upgrading or rehabilitative treat - ment, to working with the counsellor to make a plan to address other social and medical barriers.

The assist ance regulation further specifies that satisfactory employment enhancement measures may include vocational or other employment-related train- ing and literacy or education upgrading. While this bill will not sub stantially change the current practice, it will legally entrench the considera- tion of adult education in the process of deter mining how an EIA recipient will meet program expectations. I'm pleased to be introducing these amendments to The Manitoba Assistance Act.

These amendments will ensure that Manitobans will have the opportunity to pursue employment enhancement measures appro- priate to their personal circum stances in the fulfill - ment of EIA program requirements. * (15:40) Miigwech. Questions The Speaker: A question period of up to 15 minutes will be held.

Questions may be addressed to the minister by any opposition or independent member in the following sequence: first question by the official opposition critic or designate; subsequent questions asked by critics or designates from other recognized opposition parties; subsequent questions asked by each independent member; remaining questions asked by any opposition members. And no question or answer shall exceed 45 seconds. Mr. Wayne Balcaen (Brandon West): Question to the minister is, during the first reading you said Bill 6 will not substantively change current practice. You said this again today.

So leaves me to wonder and ask the motivation or, quite frankly, the need for this bill. Hon. Nahanni Fontaine (Minister of Families): I want to take an opportunity just to acknowledge some pretty phenomenal Manitobans that actually did an assessment of adult edu cation in Manitoba, who helped inform some changes that we could make legislatively, including Bill 6. And I want to acknowledge Fran Taylor and Jim Silver. Jim Silver produced two reports in respect of adult education, and these were one of the recommen- dations that Mr.

Silver had brought forward that we could look at, at entrenching legislatively and sup- porting education as a means of making and me eting those requirements. Mr. Richard Perchotte (Selkirk): Can the NDP minister explain why they froze funding for adult learning and literacy centres last time they were in office? MLA Fontaine: I'm not going to go back to some - thing that perhaps may or may not have happened. I only was elected in 2016.

What I would suggest to the member is that per - haps the member would like to look at his colleagues, particularly the colleagues that are sitting in the front bench, and ask them why they haven't, in any way, shape or form, actually supported or enhanced education

582 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 7, 2024 overall, but certainly in their time as the former govern- ment in the last seven and a half years, didn't actually make any sound investments in adult education. I would suggest to the member to talk to his front bench there and ask those questions to them. MLA Jeff Bereza (Portage la Prairie): The minister mentioned that measures range from em ployment or vocational training and treatment. Can the minister tell us what vocational treatment consists of, please? MLA Fontaine: Miigwech for the question.

I also just want to take a quick moment to acknowledge all of our front-line staff that are work - ing with Manitobans to develop case plans, which would include some of those avocational training options that would be made in concert with Manitobans that are presently on EIA but are looking to meet the criteria but also looking to getting out of social assistance. I had the opportunity very early on as minister to go and spend some time at one of our EIA offices and sit down with one of our caseworkers. They are phenomenal– The Speaker: Minister's time has expired. Mr.

Greg Nesbitt (Riding Mountain): Would the minister tell the House why her party voted against income tax changes in the 2023 budget, which will help lower income Manitobans? MLA Fontaine: Again, I know that members oppo- site want to keep reliving their failures as government. I don't know why they want to keep asking questions that point out the utter failure and lack of commitment that they've had for Manitobans that are on EIA.

We can continue this line of questioning, but I would suggest to members opposite–and that member would know, he was here in government, in the former government, and he would know the lack of commit- ment and the lack of financial assistance that was made by the former government to enhance adult education. Mr. Jeff Wharton (Red River North): Has the minister considered what effect the bill will have on a year-over-year caseload changes? MLA Fontaine: The bill–what the bill does is that it entrenches legis latively work that we are presently doing within the EIA system.

But what it does is, it ensures that folks –that Manitobans know that this government supports edu- cation. This government supports the human rights of Manitobans to seek educa tion as a means of getting off EIA or meeting the criteria that they need to be able to sustain the benefit. I think that Bill 6 is–it highlights the commitment of this government to adult education on behalf of all Manitobans. Mr. Doyle Piwniuk (Turtle Mountain): Is the minis- ter aware if the adult learning is currently available for EIA clients to develop and gain skills and abilities in their journey to financial independence?

MLA Fontaine: I'm not sure if there was a question there, it wasn't clear. I could ask the member to ask again. I wasn't quite sure what the question was. Mr. Piwniuk: The question I had was: With this program here, is the ability for a person to gain enough education to become financially in dependent, is that the goal for this bill? MLA Fontaine: I mean, certainly as a government, if we support Manitobans being able to access adult edu- cation, I would suspect that that's the goal of this bill. And I would also submit to the House that that should be the goal of all of us as legislatures –legis- lators.

We want the best for Manitobans. We want the best for Manitobans and if that includes Bill 6 and if that includes entrenching the right to adult education, I would suggest and I would hope that everybody in the House would be on the same page and would want that for Manitobans. Mr. Balcaen: My question to the minister is: Will this add cost or staff time to these con siderations? I'm assuming it will and, you know, these costs will be borne by Manitobans. MLA Fontaine: Well, the member opposite shouldn't assume anything. That's my first piece of advice to him as a new member in this House.

I would really encourage him not to assume anything. We are doing this presently. So, it's not going to be more staff time or more money. What it will be is an indication to Manitobans that we support adult education. So, again, I would really encourage the member opposite not to assume anything. Mr. Perchotte: Can the members opposite explain how this bill would impact the current EIA transition programs?

March 7, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 583 MLA Fontaine: Again, this is work that our amazing staff in our variety of our different EIA offices are doing. Really committed staff, dedi cated staff who, like us on this side of the House, want what is best for Manitobans.

Again, I just, in case any of our staff are listening, I want them to know that their minister sees them and respects them and really appreciates the work that they're doing on behalf of government, certainly, but on behalf of all Manitobans. * (15:50) MLA Bereza: Can the minister tell us who was con - sulted on the amendment to The Manitoba Assistance Act? MLA Fontaine: So, again, I did allude to this in one of my answers. I'll say it again. I think it is important and I'm sure that the member opposite also thinks it's important, because I did already mention this.

Some of the folks that we've spoken to are folks like Fran Taylor and Jim Silver. And I would hope that members opposite, I mean, I would be surprised if they knew who Jim Silver is, but I would hope that they would know who Jim Silver is. Jim Silver is a phenomenal Manitoban who has dedicated his career to uplifting and really cementing the need for adult education, but really uplifting those that, you know, those that are on the financial margin- alization of our society. And I really want to lift him up and say miigwech for the work that he's done, including for this– The Speaker: Minister's time has expired.

The honour able member for Turtle Mountain (Mr. Piwniuk). An Honourable Member: It's Riding Mountain, but you were close. The Speaker: Riding Mountain. Mr. Nesbitt: During first reading, the minister said Bill 6 will not substantively change current practice. So can the minister please speak to the motivation and need for this bill? MLA Fontaine: I know that the member is attempt - ing to construct this as some nefarious bill.

It is simply a bill in which our gov ernment feels is im portant to, again, legislatively entrench the right of Manitobans to access adult education when they're on EIA, and to support that work, for Manitobans to be able to pursue the path of education. I would imagine that everybody–or I would expect that everybody in th is House would support Manitobans pursuing education. We know that educa- tion is a transformative effect in people's lives. So I would hope that they would support that. Mr.

Piwniuk: Can the minister give a comprehensive list of em ployment en hancement measures that this bill will actually create? MLA Fontaine: Again, I think one of the most im - portant things that this bill will enhance or, certainly, entrench is the en hancement of Manitobans' axing– accessing adult edu cation, and enhancing M anitoba overall as a province. Again, I think that this bill goes to supporting the type of province that we want to be. Manitoba–we want to be a province that supports adult education.

We want to be a province that sup- ports those that are economically marginalized to get out of that, if they want, and pursue that educa tion. We on this side of the House– The Speaker: Minister's time has expired. Mr. Wharton: Building on the minister's comments, can the minister give a comprehensive list of employ- ment enhancement measures that the gov ernment is considering? MLA Fontaine: Again, this is some of the work that is already going on in our EIA offices, with our case managers and the phenomenal folks that work there.

This bill further entrenches that work and really further cements the ability for Manitobans to support adult education. Mr. Balcaen: This is very–sorry, Honourable Speaker. This is very specific to the director of assistance. Are there other civil servants engaged in this type of con- sideration who should be included in this act? MLA Fontaine: I'm not sure what the member is asking in respect of civil servants being engaged in this legislation. I–again, I know that the member is new, but I don't understand what the member is trying to ask in that.

Again, this bill legislatively entrenches work that we're already doing in EIA offices across Manitoba to be able to support Manitobans to access and to pursue adult education. That is the crux of this bill. And, again, I would suggest that, I would hope, I would expect, that folks in this Chamber would support the right and the need for Manitobans to access adult edu- cation– The Speaker: Time has expired.

584 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 7, 2024 Mr. Perchotte: Can the minister let Manitobans know if this will make it easier for people to access EIA? MLA Fontaine: I'm not sure if members opposite understand how EIA works. Like, this bill is for folks that are on EIA, that have to meet criteria to maintain the benefit. But this is a bill that then entrenches the legis lative right of Manitobans to be able, in that pursuit of maintaining and working in the criteria of that benefit, to be able to pursue adult education. Again, this is an important bill.

It entrenches work that we're already doing and it really does lift up Manitobans and help Manitobans enhance our pro- vince, and certainly the transformative effect of edu - cation in their own– The Speaker: Minister's time has expired. The time for questions has expired. Debate The Speaker: The floor is open for debate. Mr.

Wayne Balcaen (Brandon West): It gives me great pleasure to rise today and speak to the im - portance of this bill and educational opportunities for any Manitobans, but specifically those who may need to have some education upgrades, vocational upgrades or other areas that they can look at through their journey; those looking to enhance their ability in the workforce; and those looking to make sure that they can be productive members within our Manitoba society.

And that's very important to us here on this House is to make sure that we have people within Manitoba that can have meaningful work and employment within Manitoba. So, again, I'm happy to speak to this bill and bring forward the needs that arise for education. So, I'm sure the minister opposite is aware that I spent many years in law en forcement and have seen many people incarcerated in the justice system. Many of those people have had a lack of basic education and the need to have education brought forward and to have some additional learning put forward.

And there's many programs that are offered through the institutions as well as within the city of Brandon, my city, to make sure that people can glean this education and they can move forward in their educational journey. So, it is important to make sure that not only work is part of this but that education, vocational education, different services so that people can better themselves. And I think that's very important. As a matter of fact, bett ering themselves is what I've worked towards through out my career and help - ing people as a person who cares very much about those in my community.

I'm a member of an organi zation called IANE, which is the Interprovincial Association on Native Employment, and they right now are hosting the champions of Indigenous em ployment virtual career fair. And that is again going to help a number of people out today and into the future getting mean- ingful employment and being able to transition from EIA to working within our com munities and helping invest within our communities.

So, I'm very proud to have been a member of that for over 10 years, and make sure that yearly, these seminars are put on so that we can attract employment and help people off of EIA and into the workforce. Education, though, is very important for all of us, and I would like to thank all of the educators that have taken the time to commit to not only their clients and their pupils, but all of Manitoba, because we all bene- fit from this. When somebody learns, you can't take that away from them. * (16:00) And I learned this lesson early in my career.

I had a police chief, and his name was Dick Scott, and he was one of the police chiefs in the Brandon Police Service, and he told me one day that there's many things that can happen in the police services–a police chief's ability. He can–he or she can discipline an employee, they can suspend them, they can fire them.

But one thing they cannot do is take away their edu cation, and the more education that individuals have, the better they are able to perform within their jobs and it actually helps build on that next level of post -secondary education, university, going forward onto master's degrees or doctoral degrees, studi es within all of their areas of interest. So the sky is the limit when we actually give somebody an opportunity to have education and move forward within that plan. So it's important to recognize a lot of the work that has been done.

So, currently, adult learning centres and adult literacy programs have no restrictions in ac - cepting EIA recipients, and in 2021-2022, 17 per cent of the learners and 20–sorry –and 27 per cent of ALP learners identified as EIA recipients. Parti cipants of ALPs and ALCs do not pay any tuition.

March 7, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 585 In July of 2021, the Department of Families part- nered with AET to administer the GED testing services and the Manitoba Adult Literacy programming. So, you know, that's im portant to recog nize too, is the work that has been done previous to this and the background that has been brought forward so that people can glean this education that is needed and this next steps in their educational journey and assist them with another option for EIA.

And it's–you know, this bill has been brought forward to make sure that those receiving, or that can receive EIA, can be looked at on an educational basis as well. And, again, I cannot reiterate enough how impor- tant education is for training–is for individuals. And I liken this back to my father, who spent years in the military but then became a vocational teacher at one of the local high schools in Brandon. And, oftentimes, he had students come in that needed that boost and needed to have the vocational learning, because sometimes traditional learning streams aren't best for everybody.

Vocational training is some thing that other in - dividuals can benefit from. And having that enshrined in this sort of legislation would be important to make sure that individuals who want to take that vocational path can have the opportunity to learn and do it in an area where they still receive a little bit of financial boost.

It's difficult in today's day and age to make ends meets, and, you know, with increased taxes and decreasing affordability that's happening, it's im por- tant that people have the ability to have EIA or other areas of income to make sure that they can help out, but not only have education here but transition from this part to again the job force and the workforce that's open right now.

There is so much em ployment opportunity open within Manitoba, and if we can help people meet these goals and become workers in the service areas that have dire needs right now for em ployment–areas all across the province are screaming for people who can work. So, if we can give people the proper education and the ability to learn enough to move into that skilled workforce and the skilled job sector, I think it's very important that we look at all of those different areas.

EIA is another area that helps our constituents in– I imagine in each and every one of our constituencies we have people who either are on EIA or will need to be on EIA. And for them to be able to look at this and say, you know what, maybe I can look at upgrading my education while still receiving EIA –it would be important. I'm quite sure, as I look over at the member from Portage, that–and he's confirming–that there is people within his area that need this sort of assistance. They rely on EIA. They rely on that income. And to have better education, it will help them understand the next moves into the workforce.

Agriculture is a huge area right now where they are really struggling. I think there's about a 30 per cent vacancy rate in agri cultural positions right now. So farming, agricultural work–a huge importance. So, you know

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	43-1-26b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	43rd 1st hansardpdf 26b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	767518d135e3dd016997ad8ef172a789274fde5e

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