Ontario Hansard — 5 December 2000 (37th Parliament, 1st Session)

2000-12-05

Ontario — Debates (Hansard)

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December 5, 2000

37th Parliament, 1st Session

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Hansard Transcripts

vol. A

Hansard Transcripts

vol. B

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcript 2000-Dec-05 vol. A (PDF)

L113A - Tue 5 Dec 2000 / Mar 5 déc 2000

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

WASTE DISPOSAL

DOCTOR SHORTAGE

DISCRIMINATION

EVENTS IN DURHAM

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

EVENTS IN PETERBOROUGH

ECONOMIC OUTLOOK

BILTMORE HATS

VISITORS

ANNUAL REPORT, PROVINCIAL AUDITOR

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON GENERAL GOVERNMENT

VISITORS

WRITTEN QUESTIONS

STANDING COMMITTEE ON ESTIMATES

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

REMEDIES FOR ORGANIZED CRIME AND OTHER UNLAWFUL ACTIVITIES ACT, 2000 / LOI DE 2000 SUR LES RECOURS POUR CRIME ORGANISÉ ET AUTRES ACTIVITÉS ILLÉGALES

HORSE RIDING SAFETY ACT, 2000 / LOI DE 2000 SUR LA SÉCURITÉ DES CAVALIERS

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

ORGANIZED CRIME LEGISLATION

VOLUNTEERS

ORGANIZED CRIME LEGISLATION

VOLUNTEERS

ORGANIZED CRIME LEGISLATION

VOLUNTEERS

FRED CASS

DEFERRED VOTES

RED TAPE REDUCTION ACT, 2000 / LOI DE 2000 VISANT À RÉDUIRE LES FORMALITÉS ADMINISTRATIVES

ORAL QUESTIONS

WALKERTON TRAGEDY

NURSING PROGRAMS

DISCLOSURE OF CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION

HYDRO RATES

TUBERCULOSIS

SCHOOL TEACHERS

DISCLOSURE OF CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION

ACCESS TO PROFESSIONS AND TRADES

LABOUR LEGISLATION

DOMESTIC VIOLENCE LEGISLATION

BIOTECHNOLOGY

ANNUAL REPORT, PROVINCIAL AUDITOR

MINISTRY WEB SITE

PETITIONS

NORTHERN HEALTH TRAVEL GRANT

ORDERS OF THE DAY

TIME ALLOCATION / ATTRIBUTION DE TEMPS

The House met at 1330.

Prayers.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

WASTE DISPOSAL

Mr Ernie Parsons (Prince Edward-Hastings): My statement today is to the Minister of the Environment. Minister, your department very closely monitors waste disposal sites, particularly for leachate, and that's a good thing; that has to happen. However, you have very recently changed the legislation to ban the incineration of PCBs and dioxins. That may or may not be a good thing, but what it has caused is that municipalities that have difficulty getting rid of the leachate out of their waste disposal sites are now passing it through their sewage treatment plants. They were never designed for this.

Out the end of a sewage treatment plant comes a product that I would call sludge; you call it soil conditioner. This soil conditioner is then taken and spread on farmers' fields, farmers who have no knowledge that this sludge contains at times fairly high percentages of dioxins and PCBs.

Minister, you have a responsibility to provide a leadership role, to provide support, and to provide funding for the disposal of toxic materials. To put it on unsuspecting farmers' fields is not disposal of this product at all. The neighbours of those fields and the farmers themselves are entitled to know what is being spread on their land. Surely you recognize your mandate to protect the groundwater in this province and not to allow this cycle to happen where they return to the water and pollute more wells. I call for leadership to protect the quality of water in this province.

DOCTOR SHORTAGE

Mr Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay): I say to the Minister of Health across the way, if you are going to get sick I would offer that you don't get sick in the town of Kapuskasing, because last night for the second time in a month we had to close the emergency department in Kapuskasing. Why? Because we have a shortage of doctors.

Your government came to power, told us that you were going to find a solution, that you had all the answers and that within a short period of time we were going to have enough physicians in northern Ontario to at the very least man our emergency departments. For the second time in a month the Sensenbrenner Hospital in Kapuskasing had to shut down its emergency department. Yes, they dealt as best they could, by way of nurses, when people walked in the door, but they did not have a physician on-site.

I say to the government across the way that there are two things you could do today. The first is that you could announce a short-term measure to assist communities like Kapuskasing to make sure they have the dollars to their hospitals to offer full locums for people to come in-outside doctors to assist and give a bit of respite to the doctors who are there. The doctors who are there are working themselves off their feet, and they don't have the ability to cover emergency wards for 24 hours seven days a week.

The next thing you could do is longer term. You could support what the NDP and others have been saying across northern Ontario, which is to create a northern medical facility where we're able to train our own young people in northern Ontario in the practice of medicine. That way, when they graduate, they will stay, and over the longer term we will not have what happened at the Sensenbrenner Hospital in Kapuskasing last night.

DISCRIMINATION

Mrs Marie Bountrogianni (Hamilton Mountain): I rise in the House today to speak about the importance of playing a leading role in advancing the equality of women internationally. Specifically, I wish to speak to the UN Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women.

The convention came into force in September 1981 and is often described as an international bill of rights for women. It defines what constitutes discrimination against women and sets up an agenda for national action to end such discrimination. The convention provides the basis for realizing the equality between women and men through ensuring women's equal access to and equal opportunities in political and public life.

Canada signed on to the convention but was unable to sign on to the optional protocol, apparently due to the unwillingness of this province to lend its support to this enforcement mechanism. The optional protocol provides for the ability of individual women and groups to petition directly to the committee on elimination of discrimination against women once all national remedies have been exhausted. Upon questioning by the Provincial Council of Women of Ontario, the minister responsible was unable to give her assurance that it was not Ontario which was holding back Canada from signing this protocol.

I call upon the minister to set the record straight on this issue. I call upon the minister to assure all the women of Ontario and Canada that it is not as a result of this provincial government that Canada has been unable to take a leading role in eliminating all forms of discrimination against women.

EVENTS IN DURHAM

Mr John O'Toole (Durham): I am proud to rise in the House today and talk about some of the good things happening in my community, the riding of Durham.

To begin with, I'd like to recognize Beth Carr, from the village of Orono, who was recently named as a recipient of the 2000 Shirley Lavis Award. This award was given to Ms Carr in recognition of her contributions to the Distress Centre Durham over the past decade. During this period, Ms Carr served on the organization's board, has been a shift supervisor and help-line worker and has also trained front-line people. I'd like to take this opportunity to publicly thank Beth Carr for all she has done for the people of my community.

I'd also like to congratulate the members of Blackstock's ONO Club, which recently celebrated its 50th anniversary. Founded in 1950 as a club for young women, ONO stands for Our Night Out, and its founding members were Eileen Snooks, Florence Collins, Marion Rahm, Noreen Malcolm, Gwenyth Thompson, Kathleen Dorrell and Gwen Ballingall Mulholland, who is the group's charter president. Two other long-time members are Aileen Van Camp and Joan Graham, and at present they have 20 members.

I think, most important, this community organization raises money for worthwhile activities within the community of Blackstock, in addition to several unique fundraising efforts recently for theatre groups, as well as local scouting and guiding operations in the riding, including the Canadian Cancer Society, the Heart and Stroke Foundation as well as others. I'd like to thank publicly the volunteers and organizations like ONO for making our community a better place to live, work and raise a family.

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

Mr Michael Gravelle (Thunder Bay-Superior North): I rise today to urge the Minister of Community and Social Services to recognize the serious challenges facing Ontario's developmental services sector. This sector is made up of over 400 hard-working agencies located in communities all across Ontario. These agencies provide community-based support and care to Ontarians with developmental and physical disabilities. They serve as the vital link between our most vulnerable citizens and a life of independence.

But the government has failed to recognize the pressing human resource challenges that face these agencies. As it stands now, these agencies are simply unable to pay their staff an appropriate salary. As a result, they're losing their staff to perpetual turnover which is affecting their ability to serve their vulnerable clients.

Instead of actually dealing with the wage disparity crisis in the sector, this government is only giving these agencies the ability to budget for staff increases of 1%. While 2% was deemed good enough for the broader public sector, this government decided they would allow less than 1% for the developmental services sector.

Interjection: Shame.

Mr Gravelle: It is a shame. This is a stunningly unfair double standard.

Furthermore, my office has been inundated by calls from parents and families desperately trying to find care and support for their adult children with developmental disabilities. Many of these calls are from aging parents who soon will be unable to sustain their level of support. Despite their heartbreaking efforts, this government continues to deny resources to the system to address this serious shortfall in services. I challenge the minister to recognize the issues and to respond.

EVENTS IN PETERBOROUGH

Mr R. Gary Stewart (Peterborough): The spirit of Christmas is alive and well in Lang Pioneer Village as Heritage Christmas is celebrated on Sunday, December 10, from 12 noon to 5 pm.

Meet Father Christmas and enjoy mulled apple cider or the famous ham, apples and onions on a bun at the Keene Hotel. Take in the aromas of chestnuts roasting over an open fire at the Fitzpatrick House and indulge in the tantalizing array of traditional Christmas baking. You can learn how to make cedar garlands and other pioneer decorations. If Mother Nature co-operates, there will be horse-drawn sleigh rides through the village as well as a chance to try out snowshoeing and snow sculpting.

You can enjoy traditional festive music throughout the day at the Douro Town Hall provided by local talent called the Muskovy Ducks, and it wouldn't be a Heritage Christmas without carollers filling the air with your favourite holiday melodies.

Local vendors will have an eye-catching array of unique handicraft items on sale to help you finish your Christmas shopping.

I would like to invite all members of this Legislature to visit my riding of Peterborough this weekend and be part of Heritage Christmas.

ECONOMIC OUTLOOK

Mr Gerry Phillips (Scarborough-Agincourt): My comments today are in relationship to the economic statement yesterday. One of the key charts in this book shows that Ontario's population grew in the last 10 years by about 1.3 million people. Eighty per cent of that was through immigration. The government recently published Ontario population projections, as they do every five years, that show that about 70% of the growth will come through immigration.

In its documents to attract industry to Ontario, the government talks about the importance of immigration to Ontario. In my opinion, a key to our economic growth will be our ability to continue to attract quality people who want to come to Ontario in the future. I might add that I don't think it's going to be as easy as it was in the past. World economies are doing well. You watch Ireland and California: they are aggressively attracting people to move to Ireland and to California.

I'm concerned. We've closed our welcome houses here in Ontario. I talked recently with someone from Kitchener who has a group of 51 foreign-trained physicians, none of whom can practise here in Ontario; word gets out about that. I talked to the Speaker of the Michigan state Legislature, who says their biggest job is to attract quality workers to come to Michigan.

I would say that for all of us this is a key issue for our economic future. We need to do more here in Ontario.

BILTMORE HATS

Mrs Brenda Elliott (Guelph-Wellington): Our government recognizes the value of small businesses as leaders which foster prosperity and provide jobs to our citizens in our local communities. As part of the Salute to Small Business Month, I visited one such business, called Biltmore Hats, in my riding of Guelph-Wellington. This has been an entrepreneurial success in our riding since 1919, and the key to their success lies in their vision of a company that sells only the highest-quality items.

Biltmore is an impressive local story because it has maintained its local roots by operating primarily from Guelph, but has done so while breaking into the international market, gaining clients from across North America and beyond.

On my visit to Biltmore Hats, Walter Gosk, Judy McQuarrie and designer Clare Wyngaardn accompanied me on a tour. They showed me what skills and precision go into the making of a fine-quality Biltmore hat. The hats are still made on machines that were produced in the 1950s but that are still effective and efficient and produce an exceptional quality product. The factory itself is like a functioning museum.

Hockey fans would know Biltmore as the company which started the term "hat trick" and gave hats to players who scored three goals in one game. People should know that Biltmore is also promoting Canadian culture, for all our RCMP and OPP officers' hats are made in the Biltmore plant.

I would like my colleagues to recognize this fine institution in the city of Guelph. This is a very important, historic business that continues to be part of that exceptional group of entrepreneurs we all recognize and appreciate as key parts of the businesses that make Ontario prosper and do well.

VISITORS

Mr John O'Toole (Durham): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: With your indulgence I would like to take this opportunity to introduce Mr and Mrs Baker, Stan and Bernice, as well as their daughter Ava and son Philip. They're the parents of our page Jared Baker from the riding of Durham. I'd like to welcome them.

ANNUAL REPORT, PROVINCIAL AUDITOR

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): I beg to inform the House that I have today laid upon the table the 2000 Annual Report of the Provincial Auditor.

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON GENERAL GOVERNMENT

Mr Steve Gilchrist (Scarborough East): I beg leave to present a report from the standing committee on general government and move its adoption.

Clerk at the Table (Mr Todd Decker): Your committee begs to report the following bill, as amended:

Bill 132,

An Act to enact the Post-secondary Education Choice and Excellence Act, 2000, repeal the Degree Granting Act and change the title of and make amendments to the Ministry of Colleges and Universities Act / Projet de loi 132, Loi édictant la Loi de 2000 favorisant le choix et l'excellence au niveau postsecondaire, abrogeant la

Loi sur l'attribution de grades universitaires et modifiant le

titre et le texte de la

Loi sur le ministère des Collèges et Universités.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Shall the report be received and adopted?

All those in favour will please say "aye."

All those opposed will please say "nay."

In my opinion, the ayes have it.

Call in the members. This will be a five-minute bell.

The division bells rang from 1348 to 1353.

The Speaker: Mr Gilchrist has moved the adoption of the report from the standing committee on general government respecting Bill 132.

All those in favour of the motion will please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Ayes

Arnott, Ted

Barrett, Toby

Beaubien, Marcel

Chudleigh, Ted

Clark, Brad

Clement, Tony

Coburn, Brian

Cunningham, Dianne

DeFaria, Carl

Dunlop, Garfield

Ecker, Janet

Elliott, Brenda

Flaherty, Jim

Gilchrist, Steve

Gill, Raminder

Hardeman, Ernie

Hudak, Tim

Jackson, Cameron

Johns, Helen

Johnson, Bert

Kells, Morley

Klees, Frank

Marland, Margaret

Martiniuk, Gerry

Maves, Bart

Mazzilli, Frank

Molinari, Tina R.

Munro, Julia

Mushinski, Marilyn

O'Toole, John

Ouellette, Jerry J.

Runciman, Robert W.

Snobelen, John

Spina, Joseph

Sterling, Norman W.

Stewart, R. Gary

Stockwell, Chris

Tascona, Joseph N.

Tilson, David

Tsubouchi, David H.

Turnbull, David

Wilson, Jim

Witmer, Elizabeth

Wood, Bob

Young, David

The Speaker: All those opposed will please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Nays

Agostino, Dominic

Bartolucci, Rick

Bisson, Gilles

Bountrogianni, Marie

Boyer, Claudette

Bradley, James J.

Brown, Michael A.

Bryant, Michael

Caplan, David

Christopherson, David

Churley, Marilyn

Cleary, John C.

Conway, Sean G.

Cordiano, Joseph

Crozier, Bruce

Di Cocco, Caroline

Dombrowsky, Leona

Duncan, Dwight

Gerretsen, John

Gravelle, Michael

Hampton, Howard

Hoy, Pat

Kormos, Peter

Kwinter, Monte

Marchese, Rosario

Martel, Shelley

Martin, Tony

McGuinty, Dalton

McMeekin, Ted

Parsons, Ernie

Patten, Richard

Peters, Steve

Phillips, Gerry

Pupatello, Sandra

Ruprecht, Tony

Smitherman, George

Clerk of the House (Mr Claude L. DesRosiers): The ayes are 45; the nays are 36.

The Speaker: I declare the motion carried.

VISITORS

Mrs Marie Bountrogianni (Hamilton Mountain): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: The Hillfield-Strathallan school from Hamilton, thank you for coming.

WRITTEN QUESTIONS

Mr Michael Bryant (St Paul's): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: Pursuant to standing order 97(d), a minister shall answer written questions within 24 sitting days, unless he or she has indicated otherwise, where a written question has been put on the order paper. On June 20, 2000, I put a question to the Attorney General to provide specific details of all costs associated with the province's participation in the Firearms Act reference before the Alberta Court of Appeal, the Supreme Court of Canada and otherwise.

Now, the answer was due October 31, and I don't need to tell you we're now into December. It's over a month late. I don't know what the minister is hiding, but I'd like a ruling as to this violation of the rule.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): I thank the member for the point of order. It is a legitimate point of order. My understanding is that in fact it is overdue, and I'm sure the Attorney General will take the point of order and be able to get an answer as soon as possible. I thank the member for his legitimate point of order.

Mrs Leona Dombrowsky (Hastings-Frontenac-Lennox and Addington): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I'd like to raise a point of order with regard to standing order 97(d). The minister does have 24 sitting days. On September 25, I had asked the Minister of Community and Social Services to give an account of the following aspects of the Ontario Works program: how many Ontario Works participants have been forced to sell cottages as a requirement of being on Ontario Works; what is the actual number of Ontario Works participants who've had liens registered against their homes; and what percentage of Ontario Works recipients does this represent.

This question was put to the minister on September 25. There have been 35 sitting days, so we are clearly 11 days over the deadline. I would ask if the Speaker would assist in ensuring that this question is answered.

The Speaker: I thank the member. Again, in checking the record, it's my understanding that it is a legitimate point of order, and I'm sure the minister responsible will investigate and get an answer back as well. I thank the member for her legitimate point of order.

STANDING COMMITTEE ON ESTIMATES

Mr Steve Peters (Elgin-Middlesex-London): I beg leave to present a report from the standing committee on estimates.

Clerk at the Table (Mr Todd Decker): Mr Peters, from the standing committee on estimates, presents the committee's report as follows:

Pursuant to standing order 60(a), the following estimates, 2000-01, are reported back to the House as they were not previously selected by the committee for consideration and are deemed to be received and concurred in:

Office of the Assembly

201 Office of the Assembly, $89,529,000

202 Commission(er)'s, $9,316,200.

Office of the Chief Election Officer

501 Office of the Chief Election Officer, $2,137,700.

Ombudsman Ontario

2301 Ombudsman Ontario, $8,106,800.

Office of the Provincial Auditor

2501 Office of the Provincial Auditor, $8,213,400.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

REMEDIES FOR ORGANIZED CRIME AND OTHER UNLAWFUL ACTIVITIES ACT, 2000 / LOI DE 2000 SUR LES RECOURS POUR CRIME ORGANISÉ ET AUTRES ACTIVITÉS ILLÉGALES

Mr Flaherty moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 155,

An Act to provide civil remedies for organized crime and other unlawful activities / Projet de loi 155, Loi prévoyant des recours civils pour crime organisé et autres activités illégales.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

The minister for a short statement?

Hon Jim Flaherty (Attorney General, minister responsible for native affairs): I'll make a minister's statement, Speaker.

HORSE RIDING SAFETY ACT, 2000 / LOI DE 2000 SUR LA SÉCURITÉ DES CAVALIERS

Mrs Molinari moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 156,

An Act to increase the safety of equestrian riders / Projet de loi 156, Loi visant à accroître la sécurité des cavaliers.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

The member for Thornhill for a short statement?

Mrs Tina R. Molinari (Thornhill): The purpose of the Horse Riding Safety Act, 2000, private member's bill is to increase the safety of horse riders under the age of 18 by requiring the operators of riding establishments to ensure that proper safety equipment is used. I am bringing this bill forward in memory of Elizabeth Hader and countless other children throughout the province who have met untimely deaths as a result of unsafe riding conditions in Ontario.

The bill has supplementary amendments to the Highway Traffic Act and makes it an offence for any rider under the age of 18 to ride a horse on a highway without the proper safety equipment. Parents and guardians of riders under the age of 16 would have the responsibility to not knowingly authorize or permit young riders to contravene the proposed provisions.

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

ORGANIZED CRIME LEGISLATION

Hon Jim Flaherty (Attorney General, minister responsible for native affairs): Our government has made a commitment to strengthen the fight against organized crime and to protect the people of Ontario from being victims of illicit activity.

In this year's budget, we allocated $4 million for the strategic deployment of specialized police forces and dedicated legal resources to focus on organized crime. Today we are taking another important step to fulfill our commitment.

A few minutes ago I introduced the Remedies for Organized Crime and Other Unlawful Activities Act.

If passed, this legislation would do three things: first of all, enable the province to ask the courts to freeze, seize and forfeit to the crown proceeds of unlawful activity, as well as property that is likely to be used to commit an unlawful activity; second, create a special fund consisting of the proceeds from civil forfeitures which people who have been directly victimized by unlawful activities could access; and third, enable the province to launch civil actions in court against conspiracies that engage in unlawful activities.

If the legislation is passed, the province would also create a strike force of investigators, civil lawyers and forensic accountants to ensure that these cases are vigorously pursued in court.

Today, organized crime is more than just drugs and thugs. It is increasingly sophisticated, using new technologies and strategic alliances to take advantage of any opportunity to make money illegally. Every day, organized crime victimizes honest, hard-working people either directly by defrauding them of their hard-earned money or indirectly through higher consumer prices and service fees. It is estimated that organized crime costs the Canadian economy between $5 billion and $9 billion each year. We know that most unlawful activities are motivated by profit.

Our government believes that it is time to prevent further victimization. It is time to help people who have been victimized by organized crime and other unlawful activity. It is time for organized crime to return its unlawful profits to its victims.

This government made a commitment to make Ontario a safer place to live and to do business. I encourage all members of the Legislature to help us achieve our goal by supporting this legislation.

VOLUNTEERS

Hon Helen Johns (Minister of Citizenship, Culture and Recreation, minister responsible for seniors and women): As the minister whose portfolio includes volunteerism, I'm proud today to speak of three important priorities in all of our respective communities. I want to speak about volunteers, the government's leadership in supporting and promoting volunteerism and, third, the government's partnering with the volunteer sector.

We all know that volunteers make this province a richer place to work, live and raise our families. One in three Ontarians involve themselves in some sort of volunteerism activity each year, dedicating much of their time and much of their energy to help others in their community. In fact, volunteers in Ontario give more than 422 million hours every year to more than 60,000 organizations.

Those volunteer activities are a vital part of the fabric of life in Ontario. We might ask why, and the answer is because where volunteers work, they shape the communities around them. Look at what volunteering does. Through the simple and selfless act of helping another person, sometimes directly and other times indirectly by working for a worthwhile cause, individuals reconnect with their communities and rekindle their faith in a future full of promise.

Look at where you can always find volunteers. You can find volunteers in our hospitals, in our social service activities, in cultural centres in each one of our communities. They are at every community event we hold. We find them on the sports fields or in arenas. The commitment and dedication of volunteers help provide quality programs. Their compassion and humanity improve the quality of life for other Ontarians.

This government values voluntary action, and supporting voluntary action has been a priority of our government from the beginning. Five years ago this government initiated consultations with the voluntary sector. We wanted to determine what the sector needed and how we could work together with them. We responded to those consultations with an announcement in the spring 1996 budget, where we put $10 million to support volunteers. In January 1997, we received the report from the advisory board on the voluntary sector. It resulted in the volunteer linkages program. Let me recall for you some of the initiatives that have flowed from that advisory program.

In 1997 we provided $7.5 million over five years to help volunteer organizations develop partnerships with other organizations in their own communities or within their sector. In 1999 we invested a further $6 million so they could do just that. Our volunteer action on-line program enables organizations to work together more effectively and more efficiently. It helps them to share resources. It helps them to develop from each other's experience.

For groups that are just beginning to make use of the current technology, we have developed a guide. This guide helps steer them through the sometimes complex decision-making process of getting connected to the Internet and to the Web.

We have expanded the mandate of the Volunteer Service Awards to include volunteers from all sectors-social services, agriculture, health, recreation, law, justice and education-and we have increased the number of public celebrations that commemorate the key role volunteers play in this incredible province. Last year there were 31 award ceremonies across the province, and more than 5,000 Ontarians were recognized for their services in their home communities.

Let me go into even greater depth with one of the new provincial award programs. This is the Ontario Medal for Young Volunteers. This medal lets us recognize, in a very public way, the achievements of our young people and the important contributions they are making to the province of Ontario.

Ontario believes that volunteering gives young people a unique opportunity, an opportunity to learn about caring and compassion, an opportunity to learn about the potential each of us has to make a contribution and to make a difference in our communities. With that in mind, we introduced the student community involvement requirement. This initiative requires all students to complete at least 40 hours of community involvement before they graduate from high school.

Premier Harris in 1998 convened a Premier's Round Table on Voluntary Action. He met with volunteers from many voluntary sectors, the business community and the government to explore ways to promote and strengthen voluntarism in Ontario. As a follow-up to that meeting, 10 community round tables were held across the province. These community round tables exemplify this government's partnership approach to strengthening voluntary action in Ontario. The tables continued and expanded discussions on how to strengthen volunteerism in Ontario through the involvement of our local community representatives.

Volunteers play an important role in Ontario, one of which is found in the local grant review teams of the Ontario Trillium Foundation. When we guaranteed $100 million in annual funding from gambling revenues for Trillium for distribution to charities and non-profit organizations, we needed a mechanism for deciding which community groups were worthy recipients. The local teams have put forward community priorities. Of course, many of the charities and the not-for-profit organizations that receive Trillium grants also rely heavily on volunteers to do their work within their communities.

It's all about partnership, about our government, volunteer groups, the private sector and other levels of government all working together to celebrate and to recognize volunteer action in this wonderful province. Together we're building bridges of opportunity, bridges that will permit every Ontarian to participate more fully in life in their communities.

When we look around, we see we are surrounded by good deeds. We see that the people offer up grand gestures every day or small acts of kindness to their fellow human beings. Underlying it all is the work of volunteers giving in a quiet way and getting the job done. In the account books of this province, the contributions of volunteers are recorded in invisible ink; they don't show up. But if they did, we know the number would be impressive. So let me simply say thank you to the millions of volunteers here in the province of Ontario and everywhere.

What better day to do this than December 5, International Volunteer Day, a day designated to pay tribute to and celebrate all the achievements that have been made by volunteers?

I would like to take this opportunity to thank all the volunteers who make the Ministry of Citizenship, Culture and Recreation and the government of Ontario work so efficiently. On a personal note, I'd like to take the opportunity to thank all the people who take the time to volunteer to coach my kids and the kids of everybody in this House on the hockey fields, on the baseball diamonds, in the swimming pools. Those people truly enrich the lives of my children, and I'd like to thank them for that.

International Volunteer Day is a lead-up to the International Year of the Volunteer, which begins next month, about which this government will have more to say in the coming months. The International Year of the Volunteer will provide a unique opportunity to highlight the achievements of millions of volunteers in the province of Ontario who do so much to serve their community and to make their community a better place to live. We hope by doing so that we can encourage even more people to engage in voluntary actions.

In 2001 we will build further on the strong foundations and partnerships that we have already entered into, and we all look forward to that.

ORGANIZED CRIME LEGISLATION

Mr Michael Bryant (St Paul's): Dalton McGuinty and the Ontario Liberals will support any effective, constructive and lawful measures that will assist law enforcement officials and give them the tools they need in order to help victims of crime. That's why last summer, in July, Ontario Liberals unveiled their four-point plan to crack down on organized violence and organized crime.

Our concern at the time was that the government of the day seemed to only be holding summits on the issue of organized crime. The Attorney General had attended summits in Vancouver, New Jersey, Delaware and Washington; then he came back to Toronto and invited all his new friends back to Toronto for a summit there as well. Our concern was that yet again the government was all talk and no action when it came to crime.

It is good to see today that some of the initiatives in the four-point plan are included in the statement by the minister, particularly with respect to the strike force.

With respect to the bill, I've had the bill for two minutes. I can say that if it meets the test already articulated, we would want to support it.

That said,

whereas I've had it for two minutes, this government has had 2,000 days to prepare for this bill. It's incredible when you start to think about it. What are this government's priorities? They say law and order, and the events of yesterday make us wonder. They say law and order, and yet it takes 2,000 days for them to come up with a bill that they had been talking about when they were in opposition.

I went and looked back, and I thought, gee, this idea of a special fund consisting of proceeds from civil forfeitures sounds familiar. So I looked in the Hansard and I found some remarkable proponents of it. Here's a quote: "We know that murderers are going to become millionaires, many times over perhaps, through the sale of their recollections of their crimes. We cannot allow this to happen. We must listen to the citizens in Ontario who are asking us to lead, to pass legislation and to make laws that will protect the victims of crime."

That was said in 1993 by the Honourable Elizabeth Witmer.

Applause.

Mr Bryant: The government claps, yet Mrs Witmer's cabinet has had 2,000 days to pass this legislation. I say to that minister, where have you been for the last 2,000 days? Why were you all talk then and we're only seeing a bill now?

I look further and I see this about a bill that an opposition member, at the time the member for Burlington South, the Honourable Cam Jackson, had proposed. He's had 2,000 days to make that become law and we're only seeing it now. We have to be skeptical of this law. After all, listen to this endorsement:

"No political promise sells better than the age-old pledge to `get tough on crime.' Small wonder, then, that Ontario's provincial government, which is drifting along with little sense of direction at the moment, has announced plans to implement new US-style laws that would permit officials to seize property of the criminal gangs.

"But such new laws would be redundant," the editorial says.

"Like too many Ontario law-and-order initiatives these days, this one appears to have been cooked up quickly with the goal of grabbing headlines."

That's from the National Post, December 2, 2000. If the National Post is indicting this bill, then we ought to take it very seriously.

Our great concern here is that instead of actually doing something about crime, the government may yet again be just talking about doing something about crime. There are constructive initiatives that have been put forward by Liberal members. I would encourage the government to adopt those into law, as they wanted them adopted into law in 1993 and 1994. They have had those 2,000 days to pass them.

One more quote: "Instead of blaming the federal government, which I'm sure some members are going to do today, our province should start finding ways of deepening its co-operation with Ottawa. Other provinces have succeeded on behalf of their victims." That's the member for Burlington South, Cam Jackson.

VOLUNTEERS

Ms Caroline Di Cocco (Sarnia-Lambton): The value of volunteerism in our society goes without saying, but I believe this government has done one extra thing. They have imposed volunteerism. They don't seem to understand the term "volunteer" when it comes to educators. I would suggest our volunteers are invaluable, but unfortunately are now stressed to the max.

ORGANIZED CRIME LEGISLATION

Mr Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre) : Yet another law-and-order announcement from this government. The Attorney General stands up like Elliot Ness and he's going to take on organized crime this time, just like attorneys general have been prepared to take on deadbeat dads. Maybe this Attorney General better start finishing some of the projects he started, consistently following up before he embarks on new enterprises.

The Family Responsibility Office remains one of the sources of the most frequent complaints to our constituency offices across this province. Four years later and this Attorney General is still screwing up and victimizing women, their kids and those fathers legitimately paying, as well as ignoring those deadbeat dads.

It would have been far more refreshing to have heard this minister stand up today and talk about getting real about the Victims' Bill of Rights and fulfilling that promise to create a Victims' Bill of Rights that indeed entails providing some rights for victims rather than the toothless one this government persists in maintaining. It would have been awfully pleasant, and we would have been far more enthusiastic, had this Attorney General stood up today and told us about the status of his sex offender registry. Big announcement, legislative effort, we've seen zip, zero, nada, from this Attorney General and this government.

This afternoon this Attorney General and his government are going to introduce a time allocation motion on Bill 117, their so-called domestic violence bill, the bill that will permit abusive spouses, abusive husbands, wife beaters to maintain their arsenal of weapons. God forbid this government would interfere with the right to bear arms by taking handguns and other firearms away from men who consistently beat their wives.

It's about time that this Attorney General, rather than the photo ops, rather than the talking tough with his new-found obsession with organized crime, contrasted with his apparent disinterest in the disorganized crime that has permeated his backbenches, started delivering some real substance rather than mere words. This Attorney General is big when it comes to the rhetoric, but he doesn't deliver when it comes to substance. Another announcement, another promise made, another promise inevitably broken. This Attorney General's got a whole lot that he better fix up before he embarks on his Elliot Ness escapade.

VOLUNTEERS

Ms Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): I want to thank and congratulate all volunteers across the province. Your countless hours of dedication to our communities deserve thanks and recognition.

But we were expecting another announcement from you today as the minister responsible for women's issues. I was ready for that and excited about it. Women are dying at the hands of their male partners. Each year in Ontario an average of 40 women are killed by their intimate partners. Men are charged every day with stalking, battering, threatening and assaulting their wives or partners. You know that the cross-sectoral violence against women strategy group has called on your government to bring in emergency measures for women and children. My leader and I asked the question directly to your leader, the Premier of this province, yesterday and he promised nothing.

Minister, the time has come for you to bring in some of those measures. They are: shelter funding-the shelters are overflowing, and many women and their children have no place to go. You cancelled second-stage housing when you came into government, and women and their children are desperate for second-stage housing to be brought back.

You can gesture all you want over there, member from Scarborough. I am talking about women and children who are being battered daily in this province, and your government took away the services they need to get out of those situations. That is the reality of the situation. You can sit there and smirk and make fun of my gestures all you want. The reality is, these women and kids are suffering because of your cuts and because of your decontrol of rents. These women are suffering and often are having to go back to the very abusers they are trying to get away from.

We need an expansion of the women's assault helpline. Their lineups are months long. Women cannot get through across the province. You need to bring back rent control, and you need to raise the housing allowance for women on welfare, so they can afford to rent an apartment. Because of your decontrol of rents, they can no longer do that.

Minister, show some leadership here and announce tomorrow more funding for emergency shelters and services in this province.

Hon Norman W. Sterling (Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, Minister of Correctional Services, Government House Leader): On a point of order, Speaker: I seek unanimous consent for all parties to have an opportunity to remember Frederick McIntosh Cass, who was a member of this Legislature from 1955 to 1971 and who passed away last week.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Unanimous consent? Agreed.

FRED CASS

Hon Norman W. Sterling (Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, Minister of Correctional Services, Government House Leader): Frederick Cass was the member for the riding of Grenville-Dundas, which is in eastern Ontario just south of the now city of Ottawa. Fred Cass was first elected in 1955 and rose very quickly in the government ranks. He first was made Minister of Highways. Being made Minister of Highways in the 1950s and 1960s was a considerable post at a time when construction of roads was perhaps at its peak in terms of its growth and those kinds of things.

Shortly thereafter-I think about two years later-he was made the Minister of Municipal Affairs. Again, that was a very significant post in terms of the government of the day.

In 1961, as members may know, there was a leadership convention for the then Conservative Party. Mr Leslie Frost had retired, and Mr Cass was considered as one of the pretenders to the throne. He decided not to do that, but he was considered one of the people who were in the race for the leadership. He threw his support behind the then Treasurer, Jim Allan.

Fred Cass was then appointed Attorney General. One of the interesting anecdotes about Fred Cass was that even though he was the Attorney General of the day, he would go home to Chesterville, his hometown where he was born and raised, and practise law on the weekends. If we ever thought of the Attorney General of this day practising law in any way or form, it would be an unbelievable outrage in terms of conflict of interest. I must say for Mr Cass that he understood there could be a conflict in the courts and he stayed away from the courts and did exclusively a solicitor's work.

But he continued to practise law while he was a Solicitor General, while he was a cabinet minister, while he was a member of the Legislature and after that period of time as well.

Unfortunately, in 1962 or 1964, when Mr Cass was the Attorney General, he brought forward through a very hurried process an amendment to the Police Act which gave wide, sweeping powers to the Ontario Police Commission. When, ironically, today we have a bill dealing with organized crime, Mr Cass put forward a bill trying to deal with organized crime as well. But his bill was hastily conceived and, as I understand it from the stories I heard, not very well vetted through a cabinet or a committee process behind the scenes before it surfaced. It gave the power to interrogate people in secret, and that bill received great resistance and led to Mr Cass's resignation some seven or eight days later.

Between 1964 and 1968, Fred continued to represent the people of Grenville-Dundas in the Legislature, and in 1968 he was made Speaker of the Legislature by then-Premier Robarts, as the Speaker was not elected at that time but was appointed by the Premier who was there.

Fred Cass was 87 when he died, but he remained active in politics after he retired in 1971. I had the pleasure of representing part of this riding when I was first elected in 1977, and that was the county of Grenville. One of the things Fred Cass had, which I guess was a throwback to the old days, was that every so often I would give a speech in the Legislature and I would receive a note from Fred Cass congratulating me or commenting on that particular speech. It was a practice of his, I guess an old-time politic practice, to write notes to a number of people, municipal councillors, congratulating and encouraging them in whatever they did.

It would really not be fair to either the memory of Fred Cass or to his wife, Olive, if she was not included in this eulogy to Fred Cass. While Fred Cass was the stomper-he was a great Speaker-while he was the man who came to Queen's Park, while he was the man who assumed many significant cabinet portfolios and assumed the speakership of this Legislature, it was Olive Cass who was the constituency person. She was the person who dealt with constituents' problems-this was before members had constituency offices or constituency assistants-and Olive Cass was known throughout the riding as well as Fred Cass.

Many suggested in jest that Olive Cass had more to do with the election of Fred Cass than Fred Cass himself because she was such a wonderful person in terms of getting along with individuals and with her community.

Fred McIntosh Cass served in World War II for his country, he served in this Legislature in a noble manner and with integrity, he worked hard in this Legislature for the people of Ontario and he worked hard for the people of Grenville-Dundas and the people of eastern Ontario as well. I would like to express our condolences to his family, his sister and brother who still remain. Fred and Olive never had children but I can tell you this: the people of eastern Ontario will be long in remembering his contribution, his kindness and the kindness of his wife, Olive, and their service to this province.

Mr Sean G. Conway (Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke): I and my colleagues in the Liberal Party are very pleased and honoured to associate ourselves with the very kind remarks of the government House leader about the death of Mr Speaker Cass. Mr Sterling has very eloquently captured much of the essence of a very distinguished public career.

Mr Cass was a serious, fair-minded, no-nonsense Speaker of this Legislature in the period from 1968 to 1971. His speakership was also substantially improved by the wonderful assistance he received from his wife, Olive. She was herself the daughter of W.H. Casselman, a former member of the Legislature for Dundas county and a bearer of one of the great political names in our part of southeastern Ontario.

Fred, as Mr Sterling has observed, had a very distinguished war record overseas between 1941 and 1945. But I think it is fair to say that in the annals of the political history and legislative history of this place, Frederick McIntosh Cass will be known for a series of events that occurred in the third week of March 1964. I think it is fair to say that those events were sensational. I see Mr Eric Dowd in the gallery. He's the only person around here who will remember those events.

Fred Cass was elected, as Norm Sterling said, in 1955, went quickly to cabinet, served very ably at highways and municipal affairs, and was known as the government's troubleshooter; he was known as the fireman. So it was no surprise that after the leadership campaign in 1961 the new Premier, Mr Robarts, assigned Mr Cass to the Attorney General's job, at a time, as the government House leader has rightly observed, when organized crime was a major issue and challenge to the then provincial government. The Roach commission had just reported and there were clearly problems.

There was a storm. There's a famous story about Mr Robarts being at a press gallery dinner during the next day or two at the Royal York. The Toronto Globe and Mail was beside itself with front page coverage. A relatively new member of the opposition with an Irish accent-a Liberal from I think Toronto-Dovercourt named Andy Thompson-made a very famous speech about that Bill 99, a bill that destroyed the ministerial career of Fred Cass, unfortunately, and made the career of Andy Thompson. That one speech made Thompson a frontrunner for the leadership of the Ontario Liberal Party, which was to have been decided a few months later, I think in September or October 1964.

Bill 99 was not all bad, of course, because out of that unfortunate set of circumstances the Robarts government appointed the McRuer commission on civil rights and a great deal of very beneficial legislation and practice ensued from that sensational set of events in 1964.

I say again that Fred Cass, as Mr Sterling has rightly observed, served his province and his country with great distinction in the courts, in the Legislature-notwithstanding the famous Bill 99 flap-and he is rightly remembered here today as someone to whom we owe a great debt of gratitude. I join the government House leader in expressing our condolences to his family.

Mr David Christopherson (Hamilton West): I am pleased to rise on behalf of the NDP caucus to express our condolences and to remember Fred Cass. There's no one in our caucus, actually, who served with Speaker Cass, but it doesn't take too long, in going through his resumé and certainly listening to the words of the previous speakers, to understand that Fred Cass made a significant contribution-obviously an individual of great talent, determination, much capacity for compassion and caring as well as vision, given the ministries that he was asked to be responsible for.

He was a member of this Legislature from 1955 to 1971. That's 16 years. That alone says a lot about the ability of an individual to reflect the views and concerns and needs of their community. As has been mentioned, having been the minister of highways and of municipal affairs, and ultimately the Attorney General, speaks to the confidence that the government and Premiers of the day had in Mr Cass.

Mr Conway raised the issue, and I wanted to just focus on it a bit more and put the actual quote into the record, of what happened in 1964. I agree it's very interesting and surprising that the government doesn't learn more from the past when they take a look at what happened in an incident similar to what's happening here in terms of trying to respond to legitimate issues in perhaps what may be called an illegitimate way.

Before I close, I also think it was interesting that while he was Speaker he came out with a ruling. Now, during the time I have been here we have had some interesting times regarding Speakers' rulings.

It was during the time of his speakership that he determined that opposition members could no longer begin their questions during question period with the word "why." The reason, he said, was that the questions were "usually not aimed at soliciting information from cabinet ministers but at giving the questioner an opening to catalogue his complaints about the government." As an opposition member, I don't know what the Speaker's problem was, quite frankly.

But when we look at the times that this happened in, apparently it was great sport to watch the verbal gymnastics performed on this side of the House as opposition members tried to find a way to say "why" without saying "why."

He was obviously an individual very much deserving of the time we spend here today reflecting on his career and his contributions to the province of Ontario. On behalf of all members of the NDP caucus, again we express our deepest condolences to the family and friends of Speaker Fred Cass.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): I thank all the members for their very kind comments and I will ensure that copies go to the family.

DEFERRED VOTES

RED TAPE REDUCTION ACT, 2000 / LOI DE 2000 VISANT À RÉDUIRE LES FORMALITÉS ADMINISTRATIVES

Deferred vote on the motion for third reading of Bill 119,

An Act to reduce red tape, to promote good government through better management of Ministries and agencies and to improve customer service by amending or repealing certain Acts and by enacting two new Acts / Projet de loi 119, Loi visant à réduire les formalités administratives, à promouvoir un bon gouvernement par une meilleure gestion des ministères et organismes et à améliorer le service à la clientèle en modifiant ou abrogeant certaines lois et en édictant deux nouvelles lois.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Call in the members; this will be a five-minute bell.

The division bells rang from 1444 to 1449.

The Speaker: All those in favour of the motion will please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Ayes

Arnott, Ted

Baird, John R.

Barrett, Toby

Beaubien, Marcel

Chudleigh, Ted

Clark, Brad

Clement, Tony

Coburn, Brian

Cunningham, Dianne

DeFaria, Carl

Dunlop, Garfield

Ecker, Janet

Elliott, Brenda

Flaherty, Jim

Gilchrist, Steve

Gill, Raminder

Hardeman, Ernie

Hodgson, Chris

Hudak, Tim

Jackson, Cameron

Johns, Helen

Johnson, Bert

Kells, Morley

Klees, Frank

Marland, Margaret

Maves, Bart

Mazzilli, Frank

Molinari, Tina R.

Munro, Julia

Mushinski, Marilyn

O'Toole, John

Ouellette, Jerry J

Runciman, Robert W.

Snobelen, John

Spina, Joseph

Sterling, Norman W.

Stewart, R. Gary

Stockwell, Chris

Tascona, Joseph N.

Tilson, David

Tsubouchi, David H.

Turnbull, David

Wilson, Jim

Witmer, Elizabeth

Wood, Bob

Young, David

The Speaker: All those opposed will please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Nays

Agostino, Dominic

Bartolucci, Rick

Bisson, Gilles

Bountrogianni, Marie

Boyer, Claudette

Bradley, James J.

Brown, Michael A.

Bryant, Michael

Caplan, David

Christopherson, David

Churley, Marilyn

Cleary, John C.

Conway, Sean G.

Cordiano, Joseph

Crozier, Bruce

Di Cocco, Caroline

Dombrowsky, Leona

Duncan, Dwight

Gerretsen, John

Gravelle, Michael

Hampton, Howard

Hoy, Pat

Kennedy, Gerard

Kormos, Peter

Kwinter, Monte

Marchese, Rosario

Martel, Shelley

Martin, Tony

McGuinty, Dalton

McMeekin, Ted

Parsons, Ernie

Patten, Richard

Peters, Steve

Phillips, Gerry

Pupatello, Sandra

Ramsay, David

Ruprecht, Tony

Smitherman, George

Clerk of the House (Mr Claude L. DesRosiers): The ayes are 46; the nays are 38.

The Speaker: I declare the motion carried.

Be it resolved that the bill do now pass and be entitled as in the motion.

ORAL QUESTIONS

WALKERTON TRAGEDY

Mr Dalton McGuinty (Leader of the Opposition): In the absence of the Premier and the Deputy Premier, I have a question for Guy Giorno.

My question is for the Chair of Management Board. Minister, we believe there is considerably more we can do to help the families in Walkerton. Today the people of Walkerton have been told their water is safe. They've been told to go ahead, turn on the tap and drink.

I'm sure you can understand it's going to take some time for families there, and children in particular, to adjust to this new reality. For 29 weeks, Walkerton families, and parents in particular, have been telling their children, "Don't go near the taps. Don't drink the stuff. If you do, you'll get very sick and you could even die."

The experts may tell us the water is safe, but it's going to take some time for families to regain confidence in their new water supply. A resident there talked about the importance of having an emotional weaning process. I think the appropriate thing to do in the circumstances is allow for a transition, and that means we need a guarantee from you for the people of Walkerton that you'll supply them with a six-month supply of bottled water.

Hon Chris Hodgson (Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet): As everyone is aware, what occurred in Walkerton is truly a tragedy. Our thoughts continue to be with the families who have suffered so much through this ordeal. Last spring the Premier pledged to help the people of Walkerton with all the necessary resources of the Ontario government to provide immediate help. I'd like to thank those in the community and those in the province who have worked so hard to help turn Walkerton's water back on.

Mr McGuinty: Minister, I can appreciate that you read that note exactly as it was written, but I need you to think about this matter. People in Walkerton are going to have considerable difficulty adjusting. What residents have been saying to my office is that they'd like to have a six-month transition period. They think that's only fair in the circumstances. A tragedy befell that community: 3,200 people got sick, seven people died, all kinds of people are suffering from permanent kidney failure.

We think what we should be doing in the circumstances-we think it's only fair; we think we owe this to the people of Walkerton-is providing them with a six-month supply of bottled water. Don't you think that's fair, Minister?

Hon Mr Hodgson: I'm not sure, as the member says, that we have a monopoly on what's good for the people of Walkerton sitting here at Queen's Park inside this Legislature.

What our government has tried to do is to work with the people of Walkerton. If the mayor and the local committee of health feel they want bottled water for an extended period of time, we will definitely work with them. But I want to thank those people who have suffered through this tragedy, the community and their families who have worked hard to make sure the water is turned back on, the medical officer of health, the local PUC, the Ministry of the Environment's employees and all the people of Walkerton. They've got the water back on. If they want to keep bottled water and they come to us and say they need a little more assistance, we'll definitely work with them.

Mr McGuinty: They don't want your thanks, they want your help, and I'm making that request on their behalf right now.

There's something else that you might do in order to help the people of Walkerton.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Order.

Hon Margaret Marland (Minister without Portfolio [Children]): When do you speak on behalf of the people of Walkerton?

The Speaker: Stop the clock. The minister responsible for children, come to order. When I yell "Order," I expect to have some order.

Hon Mrs Marland: It makes me mad.

The Speaker: This is your last warning now, or you'll be named. We're not going to have any arguments in here when I stand up and warn you. This is your last warning. We're not going to have any debate.

Final supplementary. Sorry for the interruption.

Mr McGuinty: There's something else that I believe you should be doing to help out the people of Walkerton. We owe them a full health impact study. Families are complaining of a number of physical ailments and conditions as a result of drinking poisoned water. They're talking about having vision problems; they're talking about having skin irritations; they're talking about miscarriages. We know there are 27 people who are suffering from hemolytic uremic syndrome. That's a potentially fatal kidney disease. Most of these sufferers are children, and we now know that most of those will have to be on dialysis for the rest of their lives.

We think the most important thing you can do in light of those circumstances, Minister, is provide for a complete health impact study. What we should be doing is ensuring that your government is in a position to meet the very special needs of the people in Walkerton as a result of drinking poisoned water. Are you prepared to require that we have a health impact study to assess the special needs of the people of Walkerton and to make sure your government is in a position to meet those needs?

Hon Mr Hodgson: As I mentioned earlier to the Leader of the Opposition, what occurred in Walkerton was a true tragedy. Our thoughts continue to be with the families who have suffered so much through this ordeal, and we will continue to honour our Premier's pledge to the people of Walkerton that all necessary resources of the Ontario government will be made available.

We're working with the local medical officer of health, and if that's what the local medical officer of health feels is needed, I'm sure the Leader of the Opposition knows that this government, based on our record of helping the families and the people of Walkerton, will continue to be there for them.

NURSING PROGRAMS

Mr Dalton McGuinty (Leader of the Opposition): My question is for the Minister of Colleges and Universities. Minister, you will now know that Ontario faces a serious nursing shortage. What that means is that we're now looking at long waits at our hospitals, we're looking at cancelled and delayed surgeries, we're looking at ambulances being turned away, and we are looking at families going without the home care they so desperately need. The problem is going to get worse. We are now told that as many as 40% of our current nurses will be eligible to retire in the next 10 years.

Minister, can you tell us how many new, additional nursing spaces you have added to Ontario's colleges and universities on your watch?

Hon Dianne Cunningham (Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities): We have been working with the task force. We agreed during the campaign that we would begin a new program in 2001, in time to have the nurses in their places for 2005. I believe the Liberals agreed to the same task force report. We will probably be finishing up the collaborative program negotiations in another couple of weeks.

Mr McGuinty: As loath as you may be to admit it, Minister, the truth is you haven't increased spaces in Ontario, you have cut them. According to a March 2000 report, on your watch the number of first-year nursing students in our colleges has dropped by 1,250, a drop of 30%. The number of nursing students in university is down 10%. The Ontario College of Nurses says there are more nurses retiring today than graduating. That means that not only are we in the worst position in all of Canada, but we're falling further behind.

Here's a quote from your own chief nursing officer, Kathleen MacMillan: "The predicted shortage is absolutely immense in scale." Nurses are now telling us we're going to need 60,000 to 90,000 nurses in the next 12 years. I'm wondering if you understand you have a very important responsibility when it comes to addressing our nursing shortage in Ontario. I want to ask you again-you've been on the job for some time now-how many new additional spaces have you added to date to Ontario's college and university nursing programs?

Hon Mrs Cunningham: What the Leader of the Opposition is telling this House is something we've known for a long time. We have exactly the same challenge across many sectors of the economy in Ontario as across North America. In order to support a new baccalaureate nursing program, we are establishing the collaborative college nursing programs leading to the degrees. These are new programs with our colleges and universities. This year, 2000-01, we provided $10 million in one-time start-up and expansion grants to support the cost of moving to these collaborative programs.

We are working with the College of Nurses, with the Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care and with our colleges and universities. This is what they asked for, and this is what we're doing.

Mr McGuinty: Why not just tell us you haven't added a single new space? That would be the honest thing to do. Tell us you have not added a single new nursing space to Ontario's colleges and universities on your watch.

Let's back this up a little. This government, understanding that a nursing shortage was imminent-on the not-too-distant horizon-proceeded recklessly to fire thousands of nurses. To make matters worse, you in your bailiwick, in your ministry, failed to make the necessary plans to begin to expand dramatically to make sure we've got enough nurses graduating here in Ontario. We know that to date you have done nothing to add new spaces.

My next question for you is, how many more spaces will you be adding to Ontario's nursing schools and when?

Hon Mrs Cunningham: I would like to give the member the numbers we are negotiating, but we won't be making them final for another week or two. If I thought the member was truly interested and that giving out numbers that haven't been confirmed would help this province, I would do so. But I'm not going to do that.

What I will do is say there is a group of people in Ontario who would like to do nursing. For that reason, we have set up an academic credential assessment service to assess foreign secondary and post-secondary educational qualifications against Ontario standards. It's very important that every person who lives in this province and is qualified to nurse, who may have come from another country, is assessed immediately so that we can get them into the profession. This will help skilled newcomer nurses enter the labour force quickly. We're working on all fronts to get nurses for the people of Ontario.

DISCLOSURE OF CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION

Mr Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): I have a question for the Deputy Premier and it is this: we want to know and need to know what is going on within the ministry of corrections under your government. You know that it is contrary to the criminal law of Canada for anyone to identify by name a young offender, to identify a young person who has been charged or convicted of a criminal offence. Not only did officials in your ministry print a list of names of young offenders, but you then distributed it. Mr Galt, one of your parliamentary assistants, was invited to this, was given a printed list with the names of young offenders. This is outrageous.

I want to know what you or the Premier has done to find out who in the ministry of corrections is responsible for this outrageous conduct and this complete disregard for the criminal law of Canada?

Hon Ernie L. Eves (Deputy Premier, Minister of Finance): First of all, I think the leader of the third party would be well advised to wait until the facts are found out before he decides to invent the facts or tell us what they are. Number two, I would hope that most members of this Legislature, if not all members of this Legislature, would recognize the fact that Mr Galt, upon realizing that he made a mistake, did the proper and honourable thing and he did it immediately, as did the minister.

Mr Hampton: Deputy Premier, I'm not so concerned about Mr Galt. Hopefully, the police will deal with Mr Galt. I'm concerned about how your government is running the ministry of corrections. I'm simply taking the statements that Mr Galt made publicly. He indicated that there was a list of young offenders, that he was given the list of the young offenders, that he was invited to a ceremony at a young offenders' facility, that other members of the public were invited to attend this so-called ceremony at a young offenders' facility where young offenders' names were printed and distributed on a list.

My question to you is-it would seem to any of us here that there are several obvious breaches of the criminal law of Canada-what are you doing, you the government that lectures people from one end of the province to the other about law and order, to hold your own government accountable?

Hon Mr Eves: The honourable member, I'm sure, having been a former Attorney General, is quite aware that the standard procedure in these matters is to refer this issue to the assistant deputy minister in the Attorney General's ministry, who will launch a proper investigation to find out what went on. That person obviously is a career civil servant; they are not a political entity. That was the proper procedure when he was the Attorney General and it's the proper procedure when Mr Flaherty is the Attorney General.

Mr Hampton: That is the proper procedure for the commencement of a criminal investigation, but it would appear from the facts we know from the admissions of Mr Galt in the Legislature yesterday and afterwards that there is a whole series of systemic things in the ministry of corrections that no government could abide by. The responsibility of the ministry of corrections is to enforce the criminal law, not put in place processes which would seem to lead inevitably to several breaches of the criminal law.

To put it to you bluntly, we are told that this whole process that happened at Brookside was driven out of the minister's office, that this was no accidental slip-up; that the printed list-

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Member take his seat. Order. Sorry for the interruption.

Interjection.

The Speaker: The member for Scarborough East, this is his last warning. Sorry, leader of the third party.

Mr Hampton: -that the printed list was no accident; that the list of members of the public, who should never be invited, was no accident; that Mr Galt being there was no accident. So I'm asking you, as a government that lectures people-you are all set to condemn people on social assistance; you're all set to go after people on workers' compensation-what have you done to look within the ministry of corrections to see what could so badly go off the trail, what could so badly be in breach of the criminal law? What are you doing to hold your own government accountable, Deputy Premier?

Hon Mr Eves: The Deputy Minister of Correctional Services is launching a review of the entire matter as well. The leader of the third party, quite frankly, is talking about innuendo; he's talking about rumour; he's talking about "somebody told me," etc. I suggest that he let this procedure follow its natural course. The two individuals in this case acted very honourably. They did the proper thing. I wish the members opposite would acknowledge that. I've been in this place for almost 20 years and I can tell you that hasn't always been the case when ministers of the crown have done something incorrectly.

The Speaker: New question? Leader of the third party.

Mr Hampton: Again to the Deputy Premier, these are simple questions: who in your government approved the printing of a list of young offenders, the same list of young offenders that was referred to by Mr Galt yesterday in this Legislature and afterwards when he talked to reporters? Who made the decision to print and distribute that list? Who made the decision to invite members of the public and give them copies of the list? What have you done to get copies of that list back since, as Mr Galt points out, the list was distributed to other members of the public besides him?

What have you done, Deputy Premier, to repair the damage that was obviously done? And don't tell us about another criminal investigation. What are you doing to hold your own government accountable?

Hon Mr Eves: When the investigation and the inquiry into these things is concluded, we will then have the facts and we'll be able to deal with them. The leader of the third party insists on inventing facts, manufacturing facts and talking about facts through rumour and innuendo. Why don't you just wait until the facts come out and then we can talk about the facts.

Mr Hampton: Deputy Premier, if you were truly interested in government accountability, if you were truly interested in your government complying with the criminal law as you lecture that other people should comply with the criminal law, you'd be asking those very questions. You'd be asking, "Who came up with the inane idea to print a list of young offenders and distribute it?" You'd be asking, "Who invited members of the public to come to this facility when that would obviously be a breach of the Criminal Code?" and you'd be out there trying to recover that list before it gets further in the public.

And you'd be doing something else: you would be scrapping the very act, the very bill that was under discussion here, the so-called Corrections Accountability Act, because if you can't run the system now, you won't be able to run it at all when you put it in the hands of your private sector corporate friends.

You should be doing all those things. Will you?

Hon Mr Eves: Does the leader of the third party think an investigation from the Deputy Attorney General is improper? Is that an inappropriate way to proceed? Why won't you let that individual complete the investigation, come up with the facts, and then we would be more than happy to discuss the facts in this chamber. That is the proper procedure. It was the proper procedure when you were the Attorney General and it's the proper procedure today.

HYDRO RATES

Mr Sean G. Conway (Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke): My question is to the Minister of Finance. I have in my hand the year 2000 annual report of the Provincial Auditor. He has a lot to say in this report about the operations of the new electricity market in Ontario. The auditor tells us, for example, that in the fiscal year ending March 31, 2000, the net impact to the provincial government is a loss of $354 million because, of course, expenses were higher than expected and revenues were lower than expected.

Then the auditor goes on to tell us and to tell the Legislature that he has looked at the plan of the government to retire the $20 billion worth of stranded debt and he concludes that there are some additional risks to Ontario taxpayers from the plan that the government and the successor companies have in place.

My question to you, Minister of Finance, is simply this: given that in year one the government lost $354 million in this matter, can you tell us how the report of the Provincial Auditor highlighting these losses is good news for electricity customers in the province of Ontario?

Hon Ernie L. Eves (Deputy Premier, Minister of Finance): First of all, I'm sure if the honourable member reads further he will find out that in a couple of short years there will be a huge surplus with respect to this amount.

Interjections.

Hon Mr Eves: That's quite true. We changed the structure of Hydro as we know it. It's now become a commercial entity. There are three separate companies. I'm sure the honourable member knows all that. I guess we could go back to the days when his party was in power or when the NDP were in power and we could go back to the days when the taxpayers of Ontario were on the hook for every single thing that Ontario Hydro did with respect to-

Interjection: They still are.

Hon Mr Eves: They are not, with all due respect, if you knew what you were talking about. Hydro One, for example, went out and financed $1 billion on its own, without the backing of the province of Ontario. If you knew what you were talking about, you wouldn't utter such nonsense. They are out there on their own, rated by the credit rating agencies on their own, and the credit rating agencies, I might add, included all this stuff in their comment on-

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Order. The Minister of Finance's time is up.

Mr Conway: Minister, I was there; I heard the auditor. I've read his report and I listened to what he said. It's clear that after year one, for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2000, the government has lost an additional 354 million bucks. The auditor tells us that given the long-term plan to retire the $20 billion worth of stranded debt, it is the auditor's professional opinion that there is an additional exposure to Ontario taxpayers.

My question remains this: having a view to the interest of hydro or electricity ratepayers, residential, industrial and commercial, can you tell us that a year from now, Minister, the auditor is not going to be here reporting that we've lost hundreds of millions more dollars and that this kind of loss and borrowing is not going to do what appears to be obviously the case-that electricity rates for all classes of Ontario electricity customers, residential, industrial and commercial, are going up, and they're probably, and sadly, going to go up sharply once the market is opened sometime in the year 2001?

Hon Mr Eves: First of all, the number that we're talking about here is debt that was already owed by Ontario Hydro, and was already owed, with all due respect, by the taxpayers of Ontario. There's no new $354 million that's popping out like a jack-in-the-box that wasn't there before. So understand that.

Number two, Hydro's stranded debt. I note you didn't read some of these parts of the auditor's report:

"We requested that the Ministry of Finance, in consultation with us, arrange for an independent review to be conducted of the assumptions underlying the long-term plan to defease the stranded debt of OEFC. The result of that review and the cash provided by the government to OEFC allowed us to conclude that OEFC was a `going concern' as at March 31, 2000. The plan's long-term cash flow projections indicate defeasance of the stranded debt by 2017 from dedicated revenues from the electricity sector."

That's what we're doing. You were going to have it go on forever.

TUBERCULOSIS

Mr Toby Barrett (Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant): My question is to the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care. I find worrisome media reports of a man who is infected with tuberculosis. This man immigrated to Canada in December 1999, as I understand, and my concern is that he's been living in Hamilton ever since with this infectious disease. Minister, what is the health screening process for immigrants? Secondly, what went wrong? What happened in this particular case? I'm receiving concerns from people in Haldimand-Norfolk.

Hon Elizabeth Witmer (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): In response to the question from the member, I would like to indicate to him that the responsibility for the health screening of all potential immigrants resides with the federal government, and specifically with the Ministry of Citizen and Immigration Canada. All potential immigrants coming to this country are required to undergo a thorough medical examination prior to their arrival in Canada. Active TB is a reason for someone to be denied admission to Canada.

It is my understanding that in this particular situation there had been a medical exam that did take place. I understand that the federal government has acknowledged responsibility that there obviously was a gap in the screening process.

Mr Barrett: Thank you, Minister, for explaining the role of the federal government in health screening of immigrants through Citizenship and Immigration Canada. I wish to also ask, what role does the provincial government play with respect to not only the prevention but also the treatment of tuberculosis? Secondly, are we assisting the local health unit in Hamilton?

Hon Mrs Witmer: I would like to strongly support the decision that's been made by the federal government that they completely review the screening process that is in place. I think it is absolutely necessary that we protect the public safety of people living not only in Ontario but in all of Canada, and I'm pleased to see that they are going to move forward.

In the case of our responsibility, our chief medical officer has been in touch with the local medical officer of health in the Hamilton community. We have offered our assistance in any way possible. I'm also pleased to say that we continue to pay 100% of the cost of any drugs in the treatment and prevention of TB and will continue to do this. As well, I'd like to note that in the past budget, the finance minister acknowledged that we were putting aside an additional $1 million in order to ensure that people who didn't have health insurance could be treated if they needed-

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): New question.

Mr Dominic Agostino (Hamilton East): My question is to the Minister of Health on the same issue. Clearly, as you are aware, there's a serious health crisis in our community. This is a potentially deadly type of tuberculosis that was brought into the Hamilton area. There's a real concern in the region as to the ability of the city of Hamilton health department to properly carry this out with the financial limitations and resources they now have. As you know, 35 people have tested positive for the virus. There is going to have to be testing of about 1,400 people through all of this.

The federal government has a responsibility. I have made a call for inquiries as to the role of the federal government. I believe they must take some responsibility. It is not a question of pointing fingers or blame. I think there's plenty of time for that later. It's a question now of substantially helping the city of Hamilton and the region deal with this problem and deal with what is going to be a heavy financial burden from the point of view of the staffing. Eleven staff people to this point have been used full-time to track this disease. Many more are going to be needed. This is a serious problem we are facing.

Minister, I ask you today, will you commit to the necessary financial resources from the provincial government to deal with this issue and to pass that on to the city and the region of Hamilton-Wentworth so they can take all of the extensive testing and follow-up that is necessary to make sure we track and treat all of the individuals involved? Can you commit today to financial assistance for the region and the city to deal with this problem?

Hon Mrs Witmer: Again, we need to make it clear that at issue here is a need for all three levels of government to continue to work co-operatively together. Unfortunately, the screening process that is presently in place didn't detect this case and there was not the appropriate follow-up. There was a case that slipped through the cracks of the federal screening process that presently takes place. I think I've indicated that the federal government acknowledges this and is prepared to undertake a review.

In our case, we are working very co-operatively with the municipality. As I say, our chief medical officer has offered our help and our assistance. I'm very pleased to say that we are continuing to provide 50% of the funding in the attempt to track down the individuals who may potentially be infected.

Mr Agostino: Again, the minister is talking about a previous budget that had been allocated without anyone believing there would be an outbreak that could affect up to 1,400 people, if not more, people in our region. The region doesn't have the financial ability right now to do this work.

My office spoke to the medical officer of health about an hour or an hour and a half ago. Frankly, they've been asking for help since November. There hasn't been one additional cent committed. We need help. They need to hire more people. We need more nurses, we need more clinical specialists to deal with this problem, and the resources are not there. Not only do we need human resources from the provincial government, the estimated cost at this point is $1.4 million to simply track and follow up on the individuals who may have been exposed to the disease. That is $1.4 million for this year and another $1.4 next year.

They have not budgeted for that, Minister, and neither have you-your acknowledgement of only $1 million in the last budget for the whole province of Ontario. Significantly more than that is needed for the city of Hamilton.

Minister, I am not blaming your government for this. That's not the intent here today. We understand there are other levels of government that are responsible. I am coming to you and pleading with you to give us a commitment today that you are going to commit yourself and your government to financially helping out, covering the costs, and giving us the human resources that are necessary for the region to deal with this problem. It's $1.4 million they don't have. This is a serious health issue. It's a serious community issue.

Minister, in a non-partisan, non-political manner I am asking you today, will you commit the province of Ontario to the $1.4 million that is necessary for the city of Hamilton to deal at this point with this disease?

Hon Mrs Witmer: Despite what may be said here, I think there is a bit of an attempt being made to politicize this issue. I've stressed now in my responses that we and the chief medical officer of health for the province are working co-operatively with the local public health unit. We have offered our assistance in any way we can help. I think we've made it abundantly clear and I feel very confident that, if there is a need for additional assistance, that decision will be reached and it will be reached by people who obviously have first-hand knowledge of what is necessary.

Let me again add that our finance minister this past year made available, because we do place a high priority on public health and safety, one million additional dollars to ensure that people in this province who didn't have access to OHIP and health insurance could receive the treatment they received.

We also provide 100% of-

The Speaker: Order. I'm afraid the minister's time is up.

SCHOOL TEACHERS

Mrs Brenda Elliott (Guelph-Wellington): My question today is for the Minister of Education. This past week, officials from the New York City Board of Education were in Toronto on a recruitment drive. It appears the New York City Board of Education is facing a teacher shortage. This is worrisome, because in addition to seeing other jurisdictions possibly raid our fine teachers, we know we're facing some challenges, some demographic issues, for instance, not only in education but in the field of health and others.

Minister, for my constituents in Guelph-Wellington and for members here in the House, can you tell me what actions the government is taking to ensure Ontario has enough teachers for its education system?

Hon Janet Ecker (Minister of Education): It's interesting that the opposition, which likes to say they support teachers, when my honourable colleague stands up and says something about fine teachers in Ontario, we hear hoots and hollers from the Liberal caucus over there. They were laughing. The member for Windsor-St Clair and many others were laughing about that, and that says where they're coming from on this issue.

At my most recent meeting with the Ontario Teachers' Federation, one of my regular meetings, the issue of teacher retention was very much one of the key agenda items, because Ontario, like other provinces in Canada, like other jurisdictions in North America, is facing a teacher shortage. As a matter of fact, we have European countries as well that are facing teacher shortages, as we're facing shortages in many other professions. One of the things we are doing to help keep teachers here is expanding the number of spots in teachers' faculties by some 6,000 to take advantage of-

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Order. The minister's time is up.

Mrs Elliott: This is a very serious issue that is certainly of concern to my constituents. Having enough teachers is important, but what is also important to parents, students and teachers in my riding is having teachers who are well-trained in their specific areas of instruction. I know that in some jurisdictions, as you mentioned, for instance, in Britain as well, overall improved teacher training has been a priority of their government.

In addition to making sure we have enough teachers in our classes, do we need to do more to address the new challenges of teacher training for our modern classrooms?

Hon Mrs Ecker: As I mentioned, we not only have expanded spots in teachers' colleges for the increase in applicants-the number of people in Ontario who want to be teachers-but we're targeting those to some of the specific areas of expertise in the teaching profession where we are experiencing more shortages, to try to work with them to stop that. Secondly, one of the other things the Ontario Teachers' Federation and the government have talked about is the issue of retention, so that when a young person or someone who is changing careers comes into the teaching profession, they get the support they need to stay in the profession.

One of the initiatives we've been working on with the education sector and are going to be unveiling is an internship program, much like we have for physicians, to make sure new teachers can get the support they need. Some boards have been good on this, but others have not been as good. We want to make sure all our new teachers have that kind of support.

But one of the things-

The Speaker: Order. I'm afraid the minister's time is up.

DISCLOSURE OF CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION

Mr Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): To the Deputy Premier again, I'm not concerned about a criminal investigation, which is likely to take place; I'm concerned about what appear to be such obvious transgressions within the ministry of corrections. Surely you would agree with me that no member of the public should ever receive a printed list with the names of young offenders on it-no member of the public and no backbencher in your government. No member of the public should ever be invited to a public ceremony where the identities of young offenders are open to the public.

Mr Galt told us that was the circumstance. Sources from within the Brookside Youth Centre told us today that was the circumstance. They also told us the assistant deputy minister of corrections, Deborah Newman, was there. It's incredible that these things could have happened.

My question is, what are you as the Deputy Premier doing to ensure these things don't happen again, that your government doesn't fall outside the law again? What are you doing to make sure that doesn't happen?

Hon Ernie L. Eves (Deputy Premier, Minister of Finance): My answer is the same as the answers I gave to his previous two questions. First of all, I think we should wait to see the results of the investigation. Both the deputy minister of corrections and the assistant deputy minister in the Attorney General's office have been asked to look into the matter. I suppose it's nice to speculate about what the facts may or may not be. Why don't we just wait until those investigations and reviews are complete, and then we can discuss the matter with the facts?

Mr Hampton: There's an obvious problem here. If the assistant deputy minister of corrections was indeed at this event, if all this was happening before her very eyes, then it doesn't make much sense to have the assistant deputy minister of corrections presiding over an investigation or over any process that tries to discover what went wrong.

If the minister-and we are told from sources within Brookside that the minister was also on the list of invited guests. If this originated from the minister's office, then it seems to me that if you're going to get to the bottom of this and are going to ensure your government is held accountable, you have to bring in someone from outside to look at what was happening.

I repeat my question. This is not the first time your government has fallen outside the criminal law of Canada with respect to the Young Offenders Act. It's the second time. Mr Runciman was the first. What is going on in the ministry of corrections under your government that this happened, and what are you going to do to ensure it doesn't happen again?

Hon Mr Eves: In the honourable member's question, the very fact that he thinks Mr Runciman was guilty of some criminal conduct is exactly the type of speculation I'm talking about, and exactly why we should wait until we have the facts. You're wrong about that and undoubtedly you'll probably be wrong about this as well.

ACCESS TO PROFESSIONS AND TRADES

Mr Tony Ruprecht (Davenport): I have a question for the Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities. Now it is very apparent why you made the announcement of the long-awaited academic credential assessment service just a few days before the Legislature opened. You simply didn't have the guts to face us here to make the announcement, where it should have been made, because of the contract that you've given out.

Let me refresh your memory. You had four bidders for this academic credential assessment service: York University and the Toronto District School Board, the University of Toronto assessment service, York regional school board and the International Credential Evaluation Service, and a New York-based company called World Education Services. Of these four bidders, three are Canadian and one is from the US. You gave the contract to the New York company. Therefore, you gave the distinct impression that our Canadian companies are simply not good enough to provide the service.

Minister, do you believe that our own institutions which have done this service for years are not good enough to provide this academic credential assessment service?

Hon Dianne Cunningham (Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities): This was a bidding process, and the company that won the bid was the one deemed to be able to do the job best. We went to the opening. Many people, a year and a half later, celebrated this great service, which our immigrant population have been waiting for for a long time. A year and a half later I don't know why I'm getting the question.

Mr Ruprecht: This is really outrageous. Just because you are going to the opening of the academic assessment service doesn't necessarily mean you're doing something about it. What you did earlier with my leader's question, saying, "Yes, we have the academic credential assessment service," and that somehow should make it easier to get nurses in here is actually totally wrong. It's your failure to provide enough nursing in Ontario. Don't use that as a deflective shield of saying something to us over here which simply isn't true.

My question is the following.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): The member can't say that. He's going to have to withdraw that. You're not allowed to say that. Withdraw it or I'm going to name you.

Mr Ruprecht: I withdraw, Mr Speaker.

Last year, Ontario took in 120,000 immigrants, over 4,000 of whom have a professional degree or certificate. But unfortunately, as the minister knows, these people who have this degree or certificate are unable to practise. Why? The reason is simple. It's in the report commissioned by Price Waterhouse in 1998, and that report is in your desk; you've got it in front of you. You know what it says: "Regulatory bodies are not using a standard and consistent methodology." Do you know what else?

The former Minister of Citizenship, who is no longer with us, adds, "We have not gone far enough to accommodate people who come here seeking to use their professional skills." This really is code language for saying the door is shut to newcomers, who are unable to practise.

Minister, you are sitting on your hands and you're sitting on the report, which includes recommendations you should implement. Please get off your hands. Go back to-

The Speaker: Minister. Order. The member's time is up.

Hon Mrs Cunningham: With respect, I hope I've got the question right. Number one, every way possible that we can get more nurses into the profession, I think the member opposite would want us to try. That's why I mentioned today that we did open the academic credential assessment service. World Education Services did in fact meet the demands. We all celebrated this in this House. I'm looking at your colleague when I say this. That's the first part of the answer.

The second

part is this: I think he might have been saying to me that there are more ways, in fact, to get immigrants into the country who are qualified to be nurses. Not long ago I met with the federal Minister of Citizenship and Immigration, Elinor Caplan. We discussed this. We are putting programs out in Ontario offices together and working together to get the requirements to people before they even come to this country.

If there's any other advice the member would like to give me so that we can work with our immigrants to get them into the right profession-

The Speaker: Order. I'm afraid the minister's time is up.

LABOUR LEGISLATION

I wonder if you could take a moment today to explain more specifically for the people listening the steps in Bill 147 and the 60 hours. Maybe you could help them understand what the intent of your legislation is.

Hon Chris Stockwell (Minister of Labour): I thank the member for Durham. Let me just say quickly that the idea that somehow we're changing the maximum workweek from 48 hours is just not the case. The maximum workweek is still 48 hours. It will remain 48 hours if this bill passes. The only thing that's changing is under the old permit system if you wanted to work more than 48 hours, you had to seek a permit from the Ministry of Labour. We have studies that indicate a third of the people didn't even request the permit or seek the permit, so they were in fact contravening the law.

The fact is, there is no recommendation to move to a 60-hour workweek. I appreciate the comments from the member for Durham. We know. We understand what the union bosses out there are saying. We understand what they're trying to get across, but if the truth be known, we're not abolishing any maximum workweek time. It will maintain at 48 hours. If there's agreement between the employee and the employer, they can reshape their week, and we think the public out there is capable of making those decisions on their own.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Member, take his seat. Stop the clock. Order. I need to be able to hear the question. That way, we'll get to more questions. Member for Durham.

Mr O'Toole: I know you're really just trying to make it easier for people to work in Ontario. Perhaps it's not just the 60-hour work issue and the employment standards issue. Minister, tell us what you're doing to make it easier to get a job in Ontario today.

Interjections.

Hon Mr Stockwell: The hackles from across the floor. Listen, what we're trying to do to create more work in this province is make labour legislation simpler, more understandable and easier for people to work within.

The question about what we're doing to change the law in the ESA is a good question. I compliment the member for Durham. I took the time to go to Sarnia last Friday and explain it to 600 or 700 union representatives. They themselves in fact sat there and listened, and I think they were somewhat astounded because the information they were getting from their union executive wasn't actually what the bill was going to do.

What we're trying to do with this labour legislation is create a prosperous Ontario, create jobs for people, take people off welfare and take people off unemployment. I would expect this noble goal is a cause the opposition would like-

The Speaker: New question.

DOMESTIC VIOLENCE LEGISLATION

Mr Michael Bryant (St Paul's): My question is for the Attorney General. On November 9, Ontario Liberals introduced an amendment to your domestic violence protection bill. It was to get rid of the Charlton Heston clause, which lets wife beaters keep their guns. Instead, it would give judges tools so that they could seize weapons before they're used against domestic violence victims. That amendment was shot down and now further debate in committee and further debate in this House on this bill has been shot down by a closure motion. With respect to the former, it was because of the phony argument made by the government that the Criminal Code provision already covered it, when you know, sir,

section 111 applies, whereby a police officer appears before a provincial court judge, unlike your bill, whereby a victim appears before a JP or a Superior Court judge.

When are you going to get out of your partisan bunker and stop fighting on behalf of the gun lobby and join this non-partisan effort to try and fight for protection of domestic violence victims?

Hon Jim Flaherty (Attorney General, minister responsible for native affairs): I have trouble following my honourable friend, and I respond as follows: what he's saying is we need to have strong domestic violence legislation in this province. I think most members of this House would agree that's true. Certainly, the Joint Committee on Domestic Violence which examined this issue made recommendations that are reflected in the bill that's before this House. The objection taken by my friend opposite was with respect to weapons, which are covered by the Criminal Code of Canada in sections 111 and 117, which he knows.

Mr Bryant: I don't understand why this minister hunkers down in his partisan bunker, sniping down constructive ideas on behalf of the gun lobby. First, the Liberals brought forward a bill that would crack down on phony guns and this minister shot it down. Dalton McGuinty brought forward a proposal to assist Ontario victims of crime and this minister shot it down. Now we've got an amendment that would make the bill more effective. We want to make this bill better, Minister, and now you're shooting it down. The great tragedy is, it is victims who are caught in the crossfire.

Would you come out of your partisan bunker? Would you join all three parties and would you say that we're going to fight for victims and we're not going to fight for the gun lobby? Will you do that?

Hon Mr Flaherty: Our concern, of course, is with victims of domestic violence. We have had some terrible tragedies in Ontario this year, including this summer, and I'm sure all members are aware of those. It's for that reason that several months ago now we introduced a very strong piece of legislation in this House called the Domestic Violence Protection Act, which I hope will be returning to the House today.

We have a division of powers in this country between the province and the federal government. The federal government has the criminal law power. The federal government has occupied the field with respect to seizure of weapons in

section 111 and

section 117 of the Criminal Code. I would have thought the member opposite would understand that. We can work together. With the two pieces of legislation-the piece that I hope passes this House today-together with those provisions of the Criminal Code, our police officers will have the tools they need to combat this serious social evil of domestic violence.

BIOTECHNOLOGY

Mr Brian Coburn (Ottawa-Orléans): My question is for the Minister of Energy, Science and Technology. In the fall of 1999 the government announced the biotechnology commercialization centre fund, and in June 2000 you announced up to $5.4 million in funding for the Ottawa Biotechnology Commercialization Centre fund, and I thank you for that because that is helping us realize our vision of that biotechnology cluster in Ottawa.

Yesterday you were in Ottawa to announce the biotechnology commercialization centre. Could you elaborate on the biotechnology and broader life sciences cluster in Ottawa and what we're doing to support the life sciences cluster in that city?

Hon Jim Wilson (Minister of Energy, Science and Technology): That's a terrific question, and I'm happy to comment on the life sciences sector in Ottawa. I think most people are very much aware of the tremendous growth Ottawa is experiencing in information technology with companies like Nortel and Oracle etc. The best-kept secret, though, is the tremendous lead that Ottawa is taking in the life sciences area. Yes, we did try and spark the growth of life sciences and biotechnology and move that along by committing $5.4 million to a new biotechnology incubator.

That incubator will incubate in its first few years about 17 new biotechnology companies for the Ottawa area, and we expect several hundred highly skilled jobs will be created.

People in Ottawa were telling me yesterday that they expect 10% to 15% per year growth each and every year over the next decade, creating some 4,000 new positions. That's an increase of 36% in the life sciences biotechnology sector in the Ottawa area, and we're happy to be part of the partnership in creating those jobs.

Mr Coburn: One more step to making Ottawa the advanced-knowledge capital of the entire country. Biotechnology is even going beyond the boundaries of the city of Ottawa and becoming a larger part of everyone's life on a day-to-day basis. How important is Ontario's biotechnology industry and the role it plays in the future?

Hon Mr Wilson: This government can be proud that even when it wasn't popular we were supporting, and are supporting, biotechnology. It adds tremendous value and quality to our everyday lives here in Ontario and to people's lives across Canada. Indeed, in the Third World, they don't have the opportunity and the high-tech machinery to grow food as we do in North America. Therefore, biotechnology and better crops and food species are very important, and much of that technology is being exported to those countries.

Today, biotechnology in Ontario is about a $400-million industry. We expect it to grow to $1 billion over the next decade, creating 6,500 new jobs. Since I've been Minister of Energy, Science and Technology, we've put about $2 billion worth of new infrastructure into life sciences and research and development in this province. Two billion dollars is almost as much as Jean Chrétien is spending on research and development in the entire country. So this government is helping to-

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Order. I'm afraid the minister's time is up.

ANNUAL REPORT, PROVINCIAL AUDITOR

Ms Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): I have a question for the Deputy Premier. The auditor's report today clearly highlights the trickery being used by your government to inflate your spending. The auditor has taken exception to your multiyear funding approach, which he says "distorts government financial reporting."

As an example, the auditor pointed out that last year your government said it spent $1 billion on hospital construction by March 31, 2000, when in fact this money will be spent over four years and will only be spent if Ontario hospitals can find the 30% local share they need for these projects. So it's very clear that your ministry and your government is using this funding to exaggerate your spending.

The auditor has said this practice has to cease. My question is, do you agree with him?

Hon Chris Hodgson (Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet): I notice the member of the third party waited until the finance minister had to leave, but I can assure you-

Mr David Christopherson (Hamilton West): Point of order, Mr Speaker: The acting Acting Premier knows he has no right to impugn motive. I ask you to direct that he withdraw that comment.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): All members know we don't refer to anybody being or not being here.

Hon Mr Hodgson: I can assure the member and all members of this Legislature that the auditor signed off on every one of Ernie Eves's budgets and financial statements in his tenure as Treasurer of this province, unlike your party's record when you had qualified decisions all over the place. I can also tell you that our accounting is in accordance with the PSAP rules and it is in line. He has discussed this with the auditor and I'm sure you'd be pleased to know that the auditor does sign off on our books, unlike when you were in government.

MINISTRY WEB SITE

Mr Dwight Duncan (Windsor-St Clair): On a point of privilege, Mr Speaker: Earlier today I wrote to you, pursuant to standing order 21(c). As a member of this assembly, I must be able to access government Web sites knowing I can obtain reliable information on behalf of my constituents. That is a privilege I must enjoy if I'm going to serve my constituents. Reliable, accurate information on government of Ontario Web sites is something all of us must be entitled to.

Today I visited the Ministry of Community and Social Services Web site. Instead of reliable, accurate information, I found partisan political propaganda, which should not be funded by my constituents and other taxpayers.

The lead item on the home page of the ministry Web site is a partisan attack on my leader, Dalton McGuinty. It is inappropriate and inaccurate. It alleges that my leader "turns his back on those truly in need." Nothing could be further from the truth. In the past few weeks he has repeatedly asked the minister to increase supports for people on social assistance and to quit beating up on welfare recipients.

This kind of partisan political propaganda has no place on a government Web site. The government has turned this Web site into a taxpayer-funded propaganda tool. It's certainly an affront to taxpayers and it's also a violation of my privileges as a member of the Legislature.

To serve my constituents, I again stress that I must be able to access reliable, accurate information of interest to the public when I visit ministry Web sites. Instead, I and my constituents are encountering partisan political propaganda that has no place on a government Web site.

I would suggest, given the amount of money this party takes from big corporations, that they can well afford to put this kind of propaganda either on PC Party letterhead, or even through PC caucus services, but to pollute the Ministry of Community and Social Services and to draw the very capable administration of this Legislature and its precincts into what amounts to nothing more than a sad example of cheap partisan, inaccurate, ugly grandstanding ought to be unacceptable, sir.

I call upon you to review this situation to determine, first, if it's appropriate that a ministry Web page should be allowed to carry such partisan information and, second, to determine if in fact it was an appropriate use of our mail service here in the Legislature to deliver what amounts to a partisan, mean-spirited diatribe against the poor and working poor in this province.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): I thank the member for his point of privilege. I also want to thank him for attaching copies of the Web site. I've asked that to be done. Often what has happened in the past is that by the time we get to the Web site, technology being what it is, it is mysteriously gone. In this case you have it. I appreciate your making a copy of the Web page available. I will reserve my ruling.

PETITIONS

NORTHERN HEALTH TRAVEL GRANT

Mr Rick Bartolucci (Sudbury): This is a petition to the Ontario Legislature. Northerners are demanding the Harris government eliminate health care apartheid.

"Whereas the northern health travel grant offers a reimbursement of partial travel costs at a rate of 30.4 cents per kilometre one way for northerners forced to travel for cancer care while travel policy for southerners who travel for cancer care features full reimbursement costs for travel, meals and accommodation"-that's health care apartheid and that's discrimination;

"Whereas a cancer tumour knows no health travel policy or geographic location"-that's a fact;

"Whereas a recently released Oracle research poll confirms that 92% of Ontarians support equal health travel funding"-that's what you call fairness;

"Whereas northern Ontario residents pay the same amount of taxes and are entitled to the same access to health care and all government services and inherent civil rights as residents living elsewhere in the province;

"Whereas we support the efforts of the newly formed OSECC (Ontarians Seeking Equal Cancer Care), founded by Gerry Lougheed Jr, former chair of Cancer Care Ontario, Northeast Region, to correct this injustice against northerners"-this health care apartheid, this discrimination-"travelling for cancer treatment;

"Therefore,

be it resolved that we, the undersigned, petition the Ontario Legislature to demand the Mike Harris government move immediately to fund full travel expenses for northern Ontario cancer patients and eliminate the health care apartheid"-and the discrimination-"which exists presently in the province of Ontario."

Of course I affix my signature to this petition as I am in favour of it, and I give it to Andrew and ask him to bring it to the table.

The Acting Speaker (Mr Tony Martin): Pursuant to standing order 30(b), it being 4 of the clock, I am now required to call orders of the day.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

TIME ALLOCATION / ATTRIBUTION DE TEMPS

Hon Frank Klees (Minister without Portfolio): I move that pursuant to standing order 46 and notwithstanding any other standing order or special order of the House relating to Bill 117,

An Act to better protect victims of domestic violence, when the standing committee on justice and social policy next meets for the purpose of considering the bill, the Chair shall put every question necessary to dispose of this stage of the bill without further debate or amendment; and

That, any divisions required shall be deferred until all remaining questions have been put and taken in succession, with one 20-minute waiting period allowed pursuant to standing order 127(a);

That, the committee shall report the bill to the House not later than the first sessional day that reports from committees may be received following the completion of clause-by-clause consideration, and not later than December 12, 2000. In the event that the committee fails to report the bill on that day, the bill shall be deemed to be passed by the committee and shall be deemed to be reported to and received by the House;

That, upon receiving the report of the standing committee on justice and social policy, the Speaker shall put the question for adoption of the report forthwith, and at such time the bill shall be ordered for third reading;

That when the order for third reading is called, the Speaker shall immediately put every question necessary to dispose of this stage of the bill without further debate or amendment; and

That, the vote on third reading may, pursuant to standing order 28(h), be deferred until the next sessional day during the routine proceeding "Deferred Votes"; and

That, in the case of any division relating to any proceedings on the bill, the division bell shall be limited to five minutes.

Mr David Tilson (Dufferin-Peel-Wellington-Grey): I'd like to address the House with respect to the resumption of this bill, which is the Domestic Violence Protection Act. The reason this bill has come back before this House is that it became deadlocked in the standing committee on justice and social policy. In that committee we had about two weeks of public hearings, where we heard different groups and organizations address the committee for and against different items in the bill.

At the outset of the Bill 117 committee hearings, all three parties indicated they would be in general support of this bill. In fact, during the debate on second reading in this House, generally speaking, all members who spoke in this House spoke in favour of this bill. The government therefore is frustrated because of the deadlock that has arisen in the committee. The Liberal caucus introduced a number of amendments. The New Democratic caucus introduced none. We are pretty well finished with those amendments, but we clearly are not going to be able to proceed further because of the delays of the opposition and, more specifically, the New Democratic caucus.

As I indicated prior to clause-by-clause, an agreement was reached with all three House leaders. The agreement was based on the understanding that since, as I said, all parties had publicly supported Bill 117, clause-by-clause would be completed in one day. We've now gone two full days. I think we are on

section 4, with no sign that we are going to finish the bill. Therefore, to my shock and dismay, I find myself in the Legislature debating this time allocation motion.

I don't believe we would be here doing that if the opposition had not flip-flopped and had kept their word to support victims of domestic abuse by supporting Bill 117. It was during the second day of clause-by-clause that the opposition's true intent to derail, for some unearthly reason, because it was contradictory to what they'd said earlier, our domestic abuse legislation became apparent.

The NDP representative on the committee, Mr Kormos, the member from Niagara, for example, used during that second day two 20-minute recesses, totalling 40 minutes of the committee's time, and it was strictly to his advantage. Clearly, it was his efforts to filibuster that brought us here today. I place it on him, which precluded the committee from concluding its work.

What puzzled me in the House yesterday was that the New Democratic Party raised a recently

Document details

Collection	Ontario — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	2000-12-05
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	p37 s1 2000-12-05 hansard html
Language	en
Format	html
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	76da1ba631d44a6394a64ab7349edb3604f11d25

Source file is stored in the law ingest library (html).

Ontario Hansard — 5 December 2000 (37th Parliament, 1st Session)

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

WASTE DISPOSAL

DOCTOR SHORTAGE

ARCHIVES

DISCRIMINATION

EVENTS IN DURHAM

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

EVENTS IN PETERBOROUGH

ECONOMIC OUTLOOK

BILTMORE HATS

VISITORS

ANNUAL REPORT, PROVINCIAL AUDITOR

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON GENERAL GOVERNMENT

VISITORS

WRITTEN QUESTIONS

STANDING COMMITTEE ON ESTIMATES

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

ORGANIZED CRIME LEGISLATION

VOLUNTEERS

ORGANIZED CRIME LEGISLATION

VOLUNTEERS

ORGANIZED CRIME LEGISLATION

VOLUNTEERS

FRED CASS

DEFERRED VOTES

ORAL QUESTIONS

WALKERTON TRAGEDY

NURSING PROGRAMS

DISCLOSURE OF CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION

HYDRO RATES

TUBERCULOSIS

SCHOOL TEACHERS

DISCLOSURE OF CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION

ACCESS TO PROFESSIONS AND TRADES

LABOUR LEGISLATION

DOMESTIC VIOLENCE LEGISLATION

BIOTECHNOLOGY

ANNUAL REPORT, PROVINCIAL AUDITOR

MINISTRY WEB SITE

PETITIONS

NORTHERN HEALTH TRAVEL GRANT

ORDERS OF THE DAY

TIME ALLOCATION / ATTRIBUTION DE TEMPS

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

WASTE DISPOSAL

DOCTOR SHORTAGE

ARCHIVES

DISCRIMINATION

EVENTS IN DURHAM

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

EVENTS IN PETERBOROUGH

ECONOMIC OUTLOOK

BILTMORE HATS

VISITORS

ANNUAL REPORT, PROVINCIAL AUDITOR

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON GENERAL GOVERNMENT

VISITORS

WRITTEN QUESTIONS

STANDING COMMITTEE ON ESTIMATES

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

ORGANIZED CRIME LEGISLATION

VOLUNTEERS

ORGANIZED CRIME LEGISLATION

VOLUNTEERS

ORGANIZED CRIME LEGISLATION

VOLUNTEERS

FRED CASS

DEFERRED VOTES

ORAL QUESTIONS

WALKERTON TRAGEDY

NURSING PROGRAMS

DISCLOSURE OF CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION

HYDRO RATES

TUBERCULOSIS

SCHOOL TEACHERS