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May 27,

RESOURCE

COMMITTEE

The

Committee met at 5:30 p.m. in the Assembly Chamber.

CHAIR (Cross):

Okay, I see the light is on

and I see everybody is in their chairs.

It is so nice of you to come out at this time of the evening.

It is a beautiful evening out there now compared to what it was in the

morning.

This is

the very last session that we are going to hold this year so we have the little

red caboose. This is the last

Estimates meeting for this year.

What we

do is we start off in a couple of minutes.

The minister would get fifteen minutes to inform an introduction or

opening comments. Then the Official

Opposition, whoever is taking the lead from them, would get fifteen minutes in

the first session.

trade the time back and forth in ten-minute increments.

We break about half-way through for five minutes or so, more to give the

gentleman down in the Broadcast Centre a pause.

I think he is working alone tonight.

It is not that we need a pause, but down there he may need to go and he

has got no one to replace him.

We will

start with the introduction of the members of the Committee, starting with Ms

Dempster.

MS DEMPSTER:

Lisa Dempster, the MHA for

Cartwright L'Anse au Clair, Opposition critic for AES.

MR. REID:

Scott Reid, I am the MHA for

St. George's Stephenville East.

MS MICHAEL:

Lorraine Michael, MHA,

Signal Hill Quidi Vidi.

MS WILLIAMS:

Susan Williams, Researcher.

MS PERRY:

Tracey Perry, Fortune Bay

Cape La Hune.

MR. HUNTER:

Ray Hunter, District of

Grand Falls-Windsor Green Bay South.

MR. MCGRATH:

Nick McGrath, MHA for

Labrador West.

CHAIR:

Okay, and Minister, you.

MR. JACKMAN:

I am Clyde Jackman, Minister

of Advance Education and Skills. I

will let my staff introduce themselves.

MS DOOLING:

Genevieve Dooling, Deputy Minister.

MR. PIKE:

David Pike, ADM, Corporate Services.

MR. GARDINER: Bob

Gardiner, ADM, Post-Secondary Education.

MS WHEATON:

Roxie Wheaton, ADM Responsible for Service Delivery and Income and Social

Supports.

MR. HOGAN:

Dennis Hogan, ADM for Workforce Development and Immigration.

MR. HANLON:

Brendan Hanlon, Departmental Controller.

MS WILLIAMS:

Tina Williams, Communications.

MS ABBOTT:

Tracey Abbott, EA to

Minister Jackman.

CHAIR:

Okay.

Just as

a reminder so everyone knows, the people asking the questions are asking the

minister. If the minister decides

to deflect to someone in the department, you wait for the little red light to

come on and you start off just by announcing your name.

If he identifies you by name, it is for the Broadcast Centre to see on

camera.

We need

a motion to adopt the minutes of the Forestry and Agrifoods Estimates.

Moved

by Mr. Reid; seconded by Mr. Hunter.

All

those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

Contrary?

The

minutes are adopted.

motion, minutes adopted as circulated.

CHAIR:

Now we will start with the

Clerk. Which

section are we into?

CLERK (Ms Murphy):

That would be

section 9.

CHAIR:

Section 9 for those

following their Estimates booklets.

We will call the first head.

CLERK:

Subhead 1.1.01.

CHAIR:

Subhead 1.1.01 is open; the

minister, for opening comments.

MR. JACKMAN:

All right, Sir.

Thank

you very much.

I will

have some introductory remarks.

This department is one that I say touches the lives of Newfoundlanders and

Labradorians. I suppose since I

have been there I think the biggest word I can use to describe it is that it is

a department that helps people.

If we

look at Wabush Mines and the challenge that they are going through down there

right now, it is important that we have people on the ground to assist with

programs and whatnot, and be able to help the folks out as much as we possibly

can on the ground there. Sometimes

there are factors that are beyond control of government.

It is industry and the way industry operates, but I think it is important

that we have people on the ground there.

That is what the people in this department do.

Wabush, they have been down there several times.

I have been down there myself and I think the people on the ground met

with the Wabush council. They were

very much appreciative of the work that officials from the department do.

It is no different than when we had the Sykes call centre in Corner Brook

and Terra Nova Shoes in Harbour Grace.

Also,

there are the Emergency Social Services.

We provide Emergency Social Services during the time there is a need in

our Province. One example is in

Hopedale recently. They had the

Canadian Red Cross and the Salvation Army.

Our people worked with them to deliver water to the community of Hopedale

when they were in need of it for the last three months.

We provided services to that.

There were nine chartered flights that went in there.

The staff were telling me that they carried eleven pallets of water,

10,000 litres, to that community and it cost $20,000.

Again, I say, we serve the people who need it; that was one example of

it.

The budget for the department is $879 million of the

provincial Budget. It is 10.6 per

cent of the entire Budget, and this is the breakdown: $326 million goes to

Memorial University; $91 million goes to the College of the North Atlantic; $159

million goes to skills and development; $232 million goes to Income Support; and

$30 million to student financial assistance.

From our department, we want to ensure that only the best

services and programs are offered to Newfoundlanders and Labradorians to help

them achieve employment and, equally as important, to achieve independence.

In particular, there is even a further focus on the needs of employers,

students, employees, and individuals.

I want to highlight some of the accomplishments within the department

that will have a direct impact on the daily lives of people.

We are now in the second year of restructuring the

department. The restructuring of

Advanced Education and Skills will make it more responsive to the changing

demands of today's labour market.

This was in consultation and whatnot, and we have done that restructuring and it

has happened with no layoffs. It

will eliminate isolation, focus goals, and clearly measure and define success,

all while developing independence, self-sufficiency, and success in the way we

serve people.

Through this change, the department will continue to

transform itself. There are going

to be four branches and sixteen divisions with the shared goal of ensuring that

Newfoundlanders and Labradorians can seize the opportunities that we have in

this Province.

One of the newest additions and I think this is a

critical piece of what is going to make this department more effective and more

in tune with what is happening.

There is a structure and that is the creation of the Service Improvement and

Quality Assurance Division. This

division will monitor and measure service quality and identify areas that

require attention.

With that quality assurance and service improvements being

very much active and continuous, you are always revisiting and seeing what

things are working, what things you need to improve upon.

We have also seen transition in the

Disability Policy Office and

the Poverty Reduction Strategy.

This was with AES and now it is with my other department: Seniors, Wellness and

Social Development.

We have

a new deputy minister. While she is

only small, she is very mighty. She

comes from a financial background.

From my short time in AES, with the number of dollars and programs that we have

across that department, I think she is going to be a really true asset to moving

the department forward.

Our

attrition target is nine positions annually.

So over the course of the five-year attrition plan that we have, we are

looking at forty-five individuals.

We do currently have forty-two staff who are eligible to retire and another

twenty-two becoming eligible in 2015-2016.

We will review these retirements when they occur and identify the nine

positions for the attrition target as move forward.

We also

provide Income Support. I know the

House of Assembly is an interesting spot and we challenge and ask questions of

each other, but we have come a long ways.

The percentage of population receiving Income Support in this Province

right now is at an historic low. In

1997, there were 30,766 children under the age of eighteen who were living with

families in receipt of Income Support.

In 2014, that is 8,325. So

we have seen a decrease of 22,000.

The percentage of the children in the Province living in families in receipt of

Income Support has decreased from 20.6 per cent in 1997 to 8.6 per cent in 2014.

I think it is a commendable piece for sure.

This

past fiscal year, we successfully negotiated the Canada-Newfoundland and

Labrador Job Fund Agreement. That

replaces the Labour Market Agreement.

I am pretty well certain there will be some questions on that tonight.

As we move down through some of these programs, they are pretty

complicated and detailed. When it

comes to certain facts and questions, I will be deferring questions to staff on

that.

Just as

an example, in 2014-2015 forty-one employers received funding to train 225

individuals. So uptake from these

programs has remained strong.

Likewise, the Labour Market Development provides $126 million annually to

Newfoundland and Labrador to support the training and employment needs of

programs for people in the Province.

Under this agreement, we have served upwards of 20,000 people who have

availed of these services. There is

no doubt about it, there are many good things happening in that field.

I will

say the apprenticeship program is up for renewal.

We are going to be rolling out the revamped apprenticeship program.

That will be coming out very soon.

Another

thing that I am proud of, and, I think, very many students and parents are

appreciative of, is that as of this September we will for the Newfoundland and

Labrador portion of the student loan program it will be eliminated.

The Newfoundland and Labrador portion of the Canada student loan will be

totally funded by the provincial government.

Memorial University is a large part of our program.

So is the College of the North Atlantic.

We certainly recognize those schools.

Mr.

Reid, the centre in Stephenville is amongst those.

Like I said to you the other day, they are going through a bit of a

transition right now but I can assure you there are no intentions of closing

that site. I have discussed it with

Glenn Blackwood to see how it is that we can strengthen the program.

They will be working with the local community to see what we can do

there.

Another

large part of it is the population growth.

We will, again, be rolling out this strategy very soon.

So it is going to be a busy spring for us for sure.

Mr.

Chair, that is about it for me. We

can open the floor for discussions however you choose to do it.

We can do item by item or whichever way the floor chooses.

CHAIR:

Okay.

We will

move to the Official Opposition. Ms

Dempster is going to start.

MS DEMPSTER:

Thank you.

I have

ten?

CHAIR:

Fifteen.

MS DEMPSTER:

Fifteen.

Thank you.

Thank

you for the overview. I know you

said we would start with 1.1.01, but can I ask a couple of questions first

before I start with the Estimates?

CHAIR:

I think that is what the

minister just said. He is

comfortable either way.

MS DEMPSTER:

I want to reference the

Salary Details

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS DEMPSTER:

document for 2015-2016 and 2014-2015, specifically

Schedule I on page 1 and

Schedule II on page 2, the

summary of department details.

Under

Schedule II, page 2

MR. JACKMAN:

Hold on for a second will

you, please,

MS DEMPSTER:

Sorry.

MR. JACKMAN:

This thing is not working.

Do we have another one of these around?

MS DEMPSTER:

Am I low?

MR. JACKMAN:

I am not deaf as a door knob

but I am getting there.

MS DEMPSTER:

I am low?

Okay.

MR. JACKMAN:

This thing is not working or

something is not working here.

MS DEMPSTER:

I am not low when I get

wound up, am I, Minister?

MR. JACKMAN:

No, that is true.

MS DEMPSTER:

It must be the time of day.

MR. JACKMAN:

I am well aware of that.

The sunshine should have an effect on it.

I hope

you ate a big supper.

MS DEMPSTER:

I did.

It was too big.

MR. JACKMAN:

Let's try that and we will

see if it works.

Here we

go. Good.

MS DEMPSTER:

Alight.

Salary

Details,

Schedule II, page 2 of the Salary Details document 2015-2016, according

to page 2 of the 2015-2016 Salary Details document there were 633 permanent

positions budgeted at a total cost of $41 million for 2014-2015.

The revised number of permanent positions for 2014-2015 is 628 at a total

cost of $42.4 million. I am just

wondering, what are the five positions that were cut last year?

MS DOOLING:

I can speak to that. It was not

five positions that were actually cut.

It was some cleanup we did on position control numbers.

I can give you the positions that were attached to those.

The

minister's position for our minister in AES is eliminated this year because it

is paid out of the Seniors, Wellness and Social Development department.

There was the abolishment of two PCNs that relate to two former deputy

ministers. One with respect to the

deputy minister for population growth; there is no dedicated deputy minister for

population growth now. As well,

there was another deputy minister's position that was transferred to another

department several years ago and that position was abolished as well.

There is only one deputy minister position in the department in the

Salary Details now.

There

were two vacant Client Services Officers positions that were not a part of our

approved reorganizational structure.

They were vacant and both of those vacant positions were abolished.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Thank

you.

MS DOOLING:

You're welcome.

MS DEMPSTER:

Why is the revised number

for the 2014-2015 $1.4 million higher than what you have listed as the budgeted

number for 2014-2015, despite the five less positions?

MS DOOLING:

The increase was mostly due to the payout of severance and retirement costs.

As well, there was utilization of administration costs.

There was a component there in a federal program that was also utilized.

So those were the two pieces; largely though severance and retirement

payout.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Thank

you.

MS DOOLING:

You're welcome.

MS DEMPSTER:

When you look at

Schedule I

from the Salary Details document for 2014-2015, page 1, it says 663 positions at

a total cost of the $41.5 million.

I guess I was wondering, too, why are you reporting the same number of positions

budgeted in the 2015-2016 and 2014-2015, but it is a different budget amount?

MR. JACKMAN:

Who wants to take that one?

MS DEMPSTER:

I am not asking about the

revised numbers, but talking about what was budgeted there.

MR. JACKMAN:

What particular page are you

on?

MS DEMPSTER:

These are just some notes I

made before I start, regarding

Schedule II, page 2 of the Salary Details.

MR. JACKMAN:

Okay.

MS DEMPSTER:

Schedule I right here for

last year.

MR. JACKMAN:

Schedule I, yes.

MR. PIKE:

There were five positions that were removed from the salary Estimates.

The increase in costs for 2014-2015, as Gig mentioned, was the increase

for severance payouts of the staff who severed during the year.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Comparing

Schedule I, 2014-2015, with

Schedule I, 2015-2016; Permanent Salary

Costs in 2014-2015 were $37.1 million and Permanent Salary Costs in 2015-2016

are $37.4 million. Can you just

explain why Permanent Salary Costs are roughly $240,000 higher in this most

recent Budget for the same number of positions?

MR. PIKE:

That would be the planned salary increases.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

That is what I thought.

MR. JACKMAN:

What you are doing here is

asking accumulated. By each

section

that we go through here, if we were to go through it line by line, there are

certain sections there that would see a 3 per cent salary increase.

So what

we are looking at here is accumulated.

That is what you are asking now, right?

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes, that is right.

Then,

Other Salary Costs in 2014-2015 were $4.4 million; and Other Salary Costs in

2015-2016 are $4 million. Again, is

it just the same thing, why there is $400,000 less budgeted for Other Salary

Costs for 2015-2016? I do not know.

Were there temporary positions cut?

If so, I am just wondering what they were.

MR. JACKMAN:

If I look at the first

section, 1.1.01, there was a severance payout.

There used to be a Parliamentary Secretary who was there so that is no

longer paid. If you wanted to, we

could go through each one of these sections and outline for you which ones are

severance and which ones are positions.

MS DEMPSTER:

We have a lot of information

here tonight, so I do not know if we could get a list of that for after.

MR. JACKMAN:

That is what I mean.

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes, perfect.

MR. JACKMAN:

We could show you where the

severance is and some of the positions that are impacted.

MS DEMPSTER:

Perfect.

I will

clue up that part then quickly.

Page 3 of the Salary Details 2015-2016,

Summary of Attrition shows nine

positions lost at a total of $544,000.

I just want to confirm, this is just for 2015-2016?

MR. JACKMAN:

That is right.

Yes.

MS DEMPSTER:

I am wondering what these

positions are. How many of the 435

core positions to be cut over the next five years will be in AES, any idea?

MR. JACKMAN:

What we have is that there

are going to be forty-five positions removed.

As I said in the opening, we have something like forty-two positions that

are available for retirement, and then we have another twenty-two that are going

to be coming up in the following year.

We have

not made a determination yet as to where exactly those positions will be coming.

As we do further review reorganizing the department, then we will make a

determination there.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

I do

not know if I missed this before I got my besides through attrition, will

there be any other positions cut under AES in 2015-2016?

MR. JACKMAN:

No.

MS DEMPSTER:

No.

Okay.

How

many positions are vacant right now in the department?

MS DOOLING:

As of March 31, there were thirty-four vacant positions.

MS DEMPSTER:

Thirty-four.

Okay.

The

Estimates document, the front page,

Summary of Expenditure and Related Revenue;

the budget for the department is $37.5 million less than in 2014-2015.

Can you explain why?

MR. JACKMAN:

You are on page 1?

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes.

After

this, Lorraine, I am starting line items.

MR. JACKMAN:

I am assuming on this page

right here. What is your question

again?

MS DEMPSTER:

My question is the budget

for the department right here is $37.5 million less than it was in 2014-2015.

I am just wondering why.

MR. JACKMAN:

Dave will answer this one.

MR. PIKE:

Our budget is approximately $35.7 million less than the budget for 2014-2015.

There are numerous line items that make up that net difference.

For example, there are increases in that in our budget for 2015-2016 for

negotiated salary increases. There

are various deficit- reduction options that we have put forward using federal

money as opposed to provincial money.

To turn

to Memorial University, Memorial University's budget overall dropped by

approximately $20 million, as well, there were capital projects at memorial that

ended for approximately $9.7 million.

So, memorial can equate to most of those differences year over year, but

there are ups and downs to that overall budget.

For

example, at memorial the residence upgrades were completed.

We reduced their budget by $4.1 million.

Deferred maintenance projects ended for about $3 million.

There are laboratory science upgrades that are ending.

So once we get into the details of each of the activities it will become

evident what they are.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Thank you.

I am

now moving to line items to make it simpler to follow.

Page

9.3, 1.1.01, Minister's Office, Salaries, $80,000 less for 2015-2016, why was

that?

MR. JACKMAN:

Well, like I said, one of

the issues is that there is no longer a Parliamentary Secretary there.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

MR. JACKMAN:

That was accounted for in

that section. That is it.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Is that only $30,000, a Parliamentary Secretary's salary?

MR. JACKMAN:

No, there is a whole list of

them. Parliamentary Secretary is

one. The minister's salary is now

part of it is paid through Seniors, Wellness and Social Development and some of

the minister's car allowances mine is removed too because through Seniors,

Wellness and Social Development.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

MR. JACKMAN:

This comes with a reduction

of one department.

MS DEMPSTER:

That is right.

You only need one car now; one minister (inaudible).

MR. JACKMAN:

I only got one driver.

MS DEMPSTER:

Transportation and

Communications, $40,000 over budget in 2014-2015.

MR. JACKMAN:

There was an increase, for

example, with FPT meetings. This

would account for some of the travel into Wabush as well; the staff have been in

there a few times and I have been in there.

So that accounts for it, and some into an immigration recruitment

session.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

What was purchased here okay, you have outlined that.

Subhead

1.2.01, Executive Support, Transportation and Communications, $47,000 budgeted,

overspent by $20,000 last year, what would have been purchased here?

MR. JACKMAN:

What

section is that in?

MS DEMPSTER:

Page 9.3, 1.2.01, Executive

Support, the $20,000 overspent there.

MS DOOLING:

For the Transportation and Communications for Executive Support?

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes.

MS DOOLING:

Okay. There was an increase as well

due to additional travel for executive members on FPT meetings and general

departmental business.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Subhead

1.2.02, Salaries overspent last year by $230,000.

MR. JACKMAN:

So you are on page 9.3.

MS DEMPSTER:

Page 9.4.

MR. JACKMAN:

Page 9.4.

This

was an increase due to a retirement and a severance for a departmental staff and

transition to the new department; change in the organization structure.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Employee Benefits, $200,000 can you just tell us what specifically is

covered under here?

MR. JACKMAN:

Employees Benefits that

was reduced down from $210,000 down to $185,000?

MS DEMPSTER:

Well, I have $200,000, which

seemed kind of high to me. I just

put in the overall average there.

What is covered under that?

MR. JACKMAN:

That is Employee Benefits.

Funding is provided for training and professional development for the

staff at $93,000, and then there was another one for $179,000 for payments to

workers' compensation.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

CHAIR:

Okay, the time is expired to

fifteen, so if there is something directly supplemental to that I can extend it

for a few seconds, if not

MS DEMPSTER:

Well, I do not know if a

have time. I can come back to this

section maybe.

CHAIR:

Yes, come back there.

Michael, do you want to start your first ten minute session?

MS MICHAEL:

Thank you very much, Mr.

Chair.

I will

be continuing along 1.2.02, but before doing that, just asking the minister I

have done this now at all the sessions.

A good practice has started this year that we did not have in other

years. The ministers have been

giving us the briefing notes afterwards.

So we can look forward to that?

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

I will not be able to leave this with you because I have it all scratched

up, but we will

MS MICHAEL:

No, but you will get a copy

to us

MR. JACKMAN:

We will, yes.

MS MICHAEL:

and that way there is a

lot that we do not have to copy down, because we know we will be getting it.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, thank you so much.

I have

to say I am delighted that has started; it is great.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Coming then to 1.2.02,

continuing along under Supplies it is not a big difference under spent by

$20,400, but what does that usually cover, Supplies in this line?

MR. JACKMAN:

That is savings we had the

government-wide discretionary piece.

MS MICHAEL:

Yes.

MR. JACKMAN:

That is where it is.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

MR. JACKMAN:

Where you see some of these

small dollars, that would be consistent across all of it.

MS MICHAEL:

That is where it is.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Yes, and that is probably

the same under the Professional no, Professional Services was overspent by

$18,000. What would have caused

that? What was the Professional

Services this year?

MR. JACKMAN:

There were external audits

for some of the departmental programs that is one and the Professional

Services cost dropped a bit by the Targeted Initiative for Older Workers.

Primarily, it was that there were external audits that were a bit higher

than in 2014-2015.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, but you do not expect

that to happen next year because we are back down to $15,500.

MR. JACKMAN:

No.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

Under

Purchased Services, it is overspent by $211,000.

Can we have an explanation, please?

MR. JACKMAN:

These were some lease costs

for some of the AES offices, and the lease costs were a bit higher than was

anticipated.

MS MICHAEL:

Now you are going back down

to the same budget as last year, so

MS DOOLING:

Ms Michael, how we will handle that in 2015-2016 is we will find the savings

within other categories by implementing some discretionary items ourselves to

make sure that we cover any increase in leases as they come due.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, thank you.

MS DOOLING:

You are welcome.

MS MICHAEL:

Under Property, Furnishings

and Equipment, $18,500, under spent by $15,500, and then budgeted this year at

$10,000?

MR. JACKMAN:

Again, that is part of that

discretionary funding, a freeze that we had.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

Subhead

1.2.03, I think the Salaries are pretty self-explanatory, so I will not bother

with that one. Transportation and

Communications was almost on target; I do not think there is a need to ask about

that either actually. Purchased

Services, there was a variance of $25,600 last year.

Was that also discretionary?

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, great.

I am

not about to waste our time and since this is my fifth one this week

MR. JACKMAN:

I can give you counselling

after this is over.

MS MICHAEL:

I do not want to be in here

until 10:00 tonight.

MR. JACKMAN:

I have gone through three,

so we will sit down and counsel each other.

MS MICHAEL:

Right.

Okay,

that is fine; let me turn the page there.

Under General Administration, 1.2.04, Newfoundland and Labrador Student

Loans Programs, I am just wondering under Revenue Provincial there was

$150,000 unspent, but it is back up to $1,150,000 for this year.

MR. JACKMAN:

Do you want

MS MICHAEL:

Yes, an explanation of the

MR. JACKMAN:

I suppose I should ask one

of the staff, but it is around collections

MS MICHAEL:

Right.

MR. JACKMAN:

So who would want to

MR. PIKE:

Ms Michael, it is lower than

anticipated collections and it relates to a category of loans that were issued

prior to 2004. That loan portfolio

is in excess of ten years now. The

funding for that was reduced this year, but we are anticipating that with the

loans that are coming up for payment that we will meet a target of $1.1 million

next year.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, great.

Then

eventually, though, that will be gone, right, with the change?

OFFICIAL:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, great.

Under

2.1.01, Salaries here, I would like an explanation because we had approximately

a $970,000 variance last year and an increase this year over last year.

MR. JACKMAN:

One of it was retirement and

severance for some departmental staff that totalled $500,000 and then there was

a funding for the 3 per cent salary increase that totalled $318,000.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, thank you.

Transportation and Communications, there was a variance of $8,000 upwards last

year.

MR. JACKMAN:

Increased for postage.

MS MICHAEL:

We had that for somebody

else last night.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes, when we were looking

through this I was amazed at how much it cost, but that is it.

MS MICHAEL:

Right.

MR. JACKMAN:

There are some mail outs

that go to clients as well.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

forget. Who was here last I

cannot remember yesterday. One of

the ones yesterday said there was a big jump for them because of the postage.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Under Supplies, that may

have been discretionary, was it? It

was $43,000 under.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes, expenditures were lower

than previously budgeted across all of the twenty-eight offices.

MS MICHAEL:

Right.

What would be the supplies in this division of Client Services?

What kinds of supplies would be covered in that line?

MS DOOLING:

Ms Michael, that would just be routine office supplies for twenty-eight offices

across the Province.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

MS DOOLING:

Your pens and your paper,

that sort of thing.

MS MICHAEL:

Usual stuff for the whole

Province.

MS DOOLING:

Your usual stationary supplies and that.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

Thank you.

Purchased Services; there I am more interested in what is it that gets covered

under Purchased Services in this division?

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes, the funding is down

because of discretionary, but if someone wants to see

MS DOOLING:

Purchased Services would basically be your leasehold improvements.

That is about $22,000. Then

we have managed print services, your copiers, those sorts of things, and your

shredders, your advertising promotion, those sorts of expenditures.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, great. Thank you very much.

MS DOOLING: You

are welcome.

MS MICHAEL:

Under Property, Furnishings and Equipment, it was $10,000 more than budgeted.

Was there a particular reason for that?

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes, there was one particular one.

That was an increase related to the purchase of some signage for buildings for

ten of the offices.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, thank you.

Did you have any new offices added last year or they just

did not have signage before?

MR. JACKMAN: I

do not know if they did not have them, but there was new signage put up, either

replaced or

MS MICHAEL:

Okay. Thank you.

Subhead 3.1.01, Income Assistance, Transportation and

Communications has a variance of $60,000.

Can I have that explanation please?

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes. What was it, Transportation

and Communications? Is that the one

with the postage?

MS DOOLING: It

is the postage again.

MS MICHAEL:

Postage again?

MR. JACKMAN:

That is postage and mail outs, yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

MR. JACKMAN:

There was an increase in the

number of mail outs, too, to clients.

MS MICHAEL:

Right.

MR. JACKMAN:

What they were attempting to

do is to encourage more people to have direct deposits.

MS MICHAEL:

Right.

MR. JACKMAN:

So it may cost us a bit to

get it set up, but that is the aim, to get more and more people on direct

deposits.

MS MICHAEL:

Well I think we have had

this conversation since you became minister.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

I had it with the minister

prior to you.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Just to put it on the

record, you know where I stand on this.

I agree that it is good to do it, but we also have to recognize people

should not feel pressure to do it.

MR. JACKMAN:

No.

MS MICHAEL:

Some people just do not have

accounts, or they do not have a facility in the community they live in, et

cetera.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

You had said you would look

into that because I had reported some front-line stuff to you.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

We have not been swamped with calls with it.

MS MICHAEL:

Right.

MR. JACKMAN:

We have had the occasional

case where someone has wanted it dealt with differently and we have

accommodated.

MS MICHAEL:

Great.

MR. JACKMAN:

So any accommodation that is

needed in those particular cases, we will make them.

MS MICHAEL:

Right, and we have not had

any calls recently either, since I spoke with you.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Thank you for looking at

that.

MR. JACKMAN:

Not a problem.

MS MICHAEL:

Great.

CHAIR:

Time is flying tonight.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, that is fine.

Thank you very much.

CHAIR:

Back to Ms Dempster.

MS MICHAEL:

I will be back.

MS DEMPSTER:

Back to 1.2.02.

I will just pop back here.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS DEMPSTER:

Transportation and

Communications, there is kind of a hefty budget there.

What is covered there?

MR. JACKMAN:

Let me see, Transportation

and Communications.

Do you

want to speak to that one?

MS DOOLING:

Yes.

MR. JACKMAN:

You are asking the specific,

not about reductions or increases.

You are asking specific as to what is required in it.

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes, what is covered in that

budget?

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS DOOLING:

Absolutely. That is postage and

freight costs for all divisions within the provincial office, that is just over

$92,000 of it; there is divisional travel, about $15,000; and

telecommunications, phones, telecoms, those sorts of things, about $42,400 in

that.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay, thank you.

MS DOOLING: You

are welcome.

MS DEMPSTER:

Under Purchased Services, over $3 million last year and again this year.

I know a chunk of that is probably for leases.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS DEMPSTER: Is

it just leases?

MS DOOLING: The

majority of it.

MS DEMPSTER:

When we look at what was purchased last year.

MS DOOLING:

Yes. The majority of it, over $3

million, relates to leasing; then there are banking fees, about $120,000 there;

and then printing and copiers, that is about $85,000.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Not expected to purchase anything this year, just handy

about the same; leases?

MS DOOLING:

Basically the same, yes.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

The Revenue Provincial; where does this come from,

specifically?

MS DOOLING:

The provincial revenue is with respect to funding that we put out to

organizations and if they are unable to spend the entire amount, they would

refund the remainder back to the department.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

My next

question was: Why did you receive $200,000 more than anticipated last year?

That could be why.

MS DOOLING:

Yes, it is because organizations returned some of the funding.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Subhead

1.2.03, Salaries under spent by $80,000 again.

MR. JACKMAN:

This was the quality

assurance division I spoke about.

It was approved as part of the department's reorganization.

It was not fully staffed in 2014-2015 so now you will see that increase,

but that was basically it. It was

not funded for the entire year.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay, thank you.

Under

Transportation and Communications, what specifically is covered here?

MR. JACKMAN:

That is discretionary

funding. Across all of the

department we looked at ways where we could help out with a little bit less

funds. That is one there.

It was down by $5,100 or something.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Professional Services, the $145,000, what is covered there?

MR. JACKMAN:

That is expenses for

evaluation plans, appeal board per diems, those types of things, and dollars

that were spent around reviews of the apprenticeship board and the program as we

move forward with it.

MS DEMPSTER:

Were there any other

evaluations that were done?

MR. JACKMAN:

No, not that I am aware of.

Was it?

MR. PIKE:

We can provide a list to you of evaluations.

MS DEMPSTER:

I appreciate that, thank

you.

Under

Purchased Services, I am wondering what you purchased last year and what you

would be purchasing this year, and why you were under spent by $25,000.

MR. JACKMAN:

Again, that is part of the

discretionary funding freeze where we looked at savings we could make.

That is basically it.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

What

was purchased there in Purchased Services?

MR. JACKMAN:

One of the changes, I

suppose, is moving to my new Department of Seniors, Wellness and Social

Development. There were some

expenses incurred there. Gig can

mention a few more of them.

MS DOOLING:

The majority of expenditures that would occur under Purchased Services are your

print, your photocopying, and those sorts of things.

Your copiers could be leased and just the maintenance of those copies, as

well as your advertising, those sorts of things.

Our

budget was reduced in 2015-2016 because a small amount of money was transferred

over to Seniors, Wellness and Social Development for the two divisions that

transferred out of AES and into the new department.

MS DEMPSTER:

Do we know what that figure

was?

MS DOOLING:

Do I know the figure that

was transferred to Seniors, Wellness and Social Development?

It was approximately $9,500.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Moving

on 1.2.04

MR. JACKMAN:

I will say to you that as we

go through some of these she mentioned that particular amount under this

division there will be other amounts that will show up across others, with the

move to Seniors, Wellness and Social Development.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

I just

have kind of a general question starting under student loans because the

description says this budget includes payments to financial institutions and

individuals under various components of the Program.

Can you tell us a little bit about the program and the institutions and

the individuals mentioned?

MR. PIKE:

The Student Loan Corporation

was established in 2004 to disburse funding to students in terms of, at the

time, grants and loans. We use a

service provider, like all provincial jurisdictions across the country, who

disburse the funds for us.

We also

receipt the funding for loans that we receive, and there are three categories of

loans that we receive: prior to 2000, then up to 2004, and then from 2004 to the

current date. There are different

ways that we collect the funding through different arrangements.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

MR. PIKE:

Basically the Student Loan

Corporation is the banker for the student loan program.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

I am

just wondering too why you received $150,000 less than you had anticipated last

year?

MR. JACKMAN:

Again, we mentioned that

do you want the information?

MS DEMPSTER:

No.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes, we mentioned that.

MS DEMPSTER:

I have it now, yes.

How

many students are currently in default on their provincial student loan?

Do you know?

MR. JACKMAN:

It might be something we

would have to look up and provide.

MR. PIKE:

We have that information.

There are 11,100 students as of March 2014.

I do not have the March 2015 data.

As of March 2014, there were 11,100 students in default.

MS DEMPSTER:

Do we know how much is owed

to the Province?

MR. PIKE:

In defaulted loans, $65 million, as of March 31, 2014.

MS DEMPSTER:

Go ahead.

MR. PIKE:

In those loans that are

issued that are in good standing there are 24,000 students with loans in good

standing for a total value of $78 million.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

I have

a couple of questions on the upfront needs-based grants.

What will it cost this year to complete the transition to upfront

needs-based grants? You alluded to

that in your opening. I am just

wondering is it included here.

MR. JACKMAN:

It is $12.6 million.

MS DEMPSTER:

It is $12.6 million.

Okay.

What

will be the total cost of this program once 100 per cent of the provincial

portion of the student loan is a grant?

MR. PIKE: The

cost will be approximately $30 million a year.

It depends on the uptake of the program.

MS DEMPSTER: On

the uptake, yes.

All right, 2.1.01, Salaries; the budget is $300,000 higher

this year.

MR. JACKMAN:

That is to cover off the 3 per cent salary increase.

That is basically it.

MS DEMPSTER: A

salary increase of 3 per cent.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

The Salary Details document lists 196 Client Services Officers in the Province

under Client Services. Can you tell

us what their role is?

MR. JACKMAN: Of

Client Services?

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes, Client Service Officers.

MR. JACKMAN:

You go ahead.

MS WHEATON:

Client Services Officers are responsible for determining eligibility for a whole

array of programs and services, so everything from eligibility for Income

Support or skills development. They

have full delegated authority.

In the government world they are considered to be

professional-level positions because they come with a lot of skills sets.

They would be dealing with clients who are homeless and people who are

victims of violence. They could be

dealing with people who are looking to go back to school.

They are the front-line staff in our organization who deals with all of

the eligibility for funding.

MS DEMPSTER:

Roxie, can you give us a breakdown of where they are located throughout the

Province? Can we get that?

MS WHEATON: In

terms of the number by location?

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes.

MS WHEATON:

Sure. You would find pretty much

Client Service Officers in all of our locations.

We can get you that.

MS DEMPSTER:

Thank you.

CHAIR:

Okay, that might be a good

point to transfer over to Ms Michael.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

Thank you.

Picking

up at 3.1.01, I think this is straightforward; the Allowances and Assistance, $3

million under. I would imagine that

is not a figure that can be nailed down because it is money that is going out to

individuals, correct?

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

You will see up and down depending on the client caseload.

MS MICHAEL:

Right.

So you are keeping it at the same amount basically.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

It is actually up $615,000 -

$615,700 actually.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

The

federal money; that is money to the Innu Nation, is it?

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Right.

Then

the provincial revenue; what makes up provincial revenue in this area?

MR. JACKMAN:

That one is related to

collections of overpayments.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

It is a

fair bit. Is that fairly normal,

that amount?

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes, I would think so.

I mean if I use it as an individual case, sometimes we get someone who

might be collecting Income Support, receiving and then getting CPP afterwards,

and have to pay back. That is one

example of it.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

course it is Province-wide.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Thank you.

Subhead

3.1.02, National Child Benefit Reinvestment; $600,000 was budgeted and $500,000

so a variance of $100,000.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

There was lower than anticipated take-up by Income Support clients.

MS MICHAEL:

Right.

MR. JACKMAN:

It is interesting.

I was interested in this particular stat too; the numbers have been going

down over the past number of years.

MS MICHAEL:

Because of the statistics.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Do most low-income people

obviously most of them are aware of it.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

So you make an effort to

make sure they are all aware of it.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

I think the majority of people who would be looking into it would receive

it.

MS MICHAEL:

Right.

MR. JACKMAN:

It is just that the numbers

are going down it seems.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

Thank you very much.

All

right, 3.1.03, the Mother/Baby Nutrition Supplement.

So, obviously, just one staff person involved with that program is there?

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Yes, okay.

Allowances and Assistance, a $60,000 variance, but I think it is sort of

logical, again, this is the kind of thing

MR. JACKMAN:

It is a client uptake kind

of thing, yes.

MS MICHAEL:

up and down, that is

right.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes, right.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

Sorry.

MR. JACKMAN:

You are going to deafen me

worse, knocking that microphone.

MS MICHAEL:

I should be careful because

you and I have a similar problem, right.

MR. JACKMAN:

Every time you smack it

bang.

MS MICHAEL:

Not that I wear an aid, but

the day will come for me, right.

MR. JACKMAN:

I could say you are killing

me, but I will not.

MS MICHAEL:

Thank you.

All

right, 4.1.01, Workforce Development and Productivity Secretariat, the budget

was under last year, a variance of $184,600.

What was the variance? What

caused that?

MR. JACKMAN:

This was the result of a

position not filled, as these positions are being created, classified, and

filled in that departmental transition that we were talking about.

MS MICHAEL:

Yes, okay.

Is it

filled now or you are anticipating it?

MR. JACKMAN:

We are in the process of

filling it now.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, thank you very much.

Under

Transportation and Communications there was a variance of $6,000 last year.

Why is there one there?

MR. JACKMAN:

One is related to the FPT

meetings. The other one is work

that we are doing in Wabush, and likewise that we did in Corner Brook.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

That has come out a couple of times now, right.

Thank you.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Then Supplies, I suspect

that is the discretionary spending

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes it is.

MS MICHAEL:

that brings that down by

$6,000.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

Property, Furnishings and Equipment, I guess the same thing, was it?

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes, it was.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, discretionary.

MR. JACKMAN:

Likewise some of the

movement of folks from AES to Seniors, Wellness and Social Development.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, thank you.

I have

just a couple of questions under that.

What is the work of the secretariat? What

exactly does it do, practically speaking?

MR. HOGAN:

The Workforce Development Secretariat was established approximately two years

ago. Its role is to help better

align the labour market supply and demand.

So we work very closely with employers, with individual workers, with

training institutions, unions, community groups, educational institutions, to

really tackle the issues that are challenging for the labour market in the

Province.

One of

the primary roles of the secretariat really is all about engagement.

It is that policy expertise and engagement function that allows us to

better inform the programs that the department offers.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

I have

a related question to that, I guess to the minister.

I appreciate that and I understand the

need for that, and I did have this conversation with the former minister.

However, there are times and I did

have a couple of cases of people in Income Support who went through this where

somebody in Income Support may want to do a course at the university, for

example, do a degree. Right now, when

you do the analysis of the workforce, et cetera, it does not fit.

In actual fact, I know of at least two

people who have come to me who were refused doing their BA because it did not

fit. It is like you want to do a BA.

Really, what job are you going to get

from that, this kind of thing.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

The former minister did say

to me that was being looked at, looking at more flexibility around people being

able to do education that, maybe in the immediate, you cannot see the job, but

realizing there is still a value for people.

MR. JACKMAN:

Okay, I will tell you what I

will. I will have a discussion with

the staff up the office and I will have a chat with you in the House on it

again.

MS MICHAEL:

Sure.

Thank you very much.

You did

mention, Clyde, when you were doing your opening there, you did mention the

Population Growth Strategy. Could

you just give us a little bit more detail of what is happening?

MR. JACKMAN:

Well, I can tell you we are

going to have a busy couple of months because I cannot give out all the

details now because we are going to release it, but it is coming out in four

sections.

Immigration is a large part of it.

Another one is I think when people see what the changes are coming through the

apprenticeship program, they are going to be quite pleased with it.

I know

that for myself, personally, who have had a lot of trades people in my district,

some of the things that are coming here, they have been waiting ten years to

get. So that is two components of

it.

What is

the other component? Here we go.

She knew I was going to forget one of them.

There

is a focus on families and there is another focus on communities.

The apprenticeship one is going to come under a workforce type of

program.

This is

going to be starting to roll out over the next couple of months.

It will not be just one announcement.

It will be a series of them with a focus on those particular components.

I have

to say, putting all politics aside, I am going to commend the department because

what they have produced is exceptional and I think people are going to be quite

pleased with it. I would say the

NDP are going to be over the moon with it.

MS MICHAEL:

You better be careful,

though, the Liberals are going to be accusing us of coalition again.

MR. JACKMAN:

That is not a bad thing.

MS MICHAEL:

No, that

is not a bad thing. It is not

actually.

Well,

since that brings me to the end of anything I wanted to ask about 4.1.01, I will

pass it over because I only have thirty seconds left.

CHAIR:

Okay.

Lisa.

MS DEMPSTER:

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want

to pop back for a minute to 1.2.02, the $200,000 that you had received, more

than anticipated. You mentioned

sometimes money is not spent. Is it

possible for us to get a list of what organizations or what programs I am just

wondering, what are some examples

MR. JACKMAN:

I have an example in my own

district. The Burin Peninsula

Chamber of Commerce returned $46,000 of $100,000 that they had.

They just did not have the client take-up that they expected they were

going to get. Another one was a

community centre on the West Coast that returned $26,000.

Yes, we

can do up a list of that. That is

no problem.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Back to

2.1.01, the Salary Details document lists twenty-four Social Worker I positions

in the Province under Client Services.

Can you just tell us what their role is?

MS WHEATON:

In Advanced Education and Skills we have social workers who focus on two primary

areas. There are a group of social

workers who help individuals pursue child support.

So they would support clients going through the court system.

Then we also have a group of social workers who fall within the same

category called liaison social workers.

Basically, they support our other staff when they are dealing with

clients with complex needs, who particularly would be homeless or have mental

health issues and are having difficulty navigating between different

departments, whether that might be housing issues or dealing with mental health

services. So they play a huge role

there.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay, thank you.

Again,

can we get a breakdown of where they are located throughout the Province?

The

Salary Details document lists fifty-three Clerk Typist III positions in the

Province. Can you tell me what

their role is?

MS DOOLING:

Clerk Typist III's so when you have storefront offices that we would do,

obviously you need staff who deal with reception.

They would deal with supporting the staff in the office, whether that is

everything from photocopying. They

might take in cash as people come in to make deposits on accounts.

They process mail, they help with mail outs.

Some of them answer the phones.

So a whole variety, they are an integral part of the service delivery.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Again, could we possibly get a breakdown of where they are located

throughout the Province?

Under

Transportation and Communications, what is the $1.1 million used for?

MS DOOLING:

There is $475,000 used for travel for the various staff.

There is about over 480 staff in those offices.

Telecommunications is about $544,000, and then you have postage costs of

roughly $85,000.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

So none of that would be client travel under that figure?

MS DOOLING:

That would be employee travel.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Under

Supplies, what typically is covered here no, I got that.

I made a note on that when Lorraine asked; I will skip over.

Purchased Services, under spent by $60,000.

Again, that was discretionary?

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes, it is.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Moving

on, I am wondering, last year the former minister we were told that Client

Services would be divided into two regions, one out of St. John's and one out of

Stephenville. Is this still the

case, two regions?

MS DOOLING:

It is two regions; one in St. John's and one in the Western Region.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Can you just tell us how it is working out, now that we are a few months

in?

MS DOOLING:

Yes, we are still continuing to implement the new organizational model, as

Minister Jackman had indicated. So

we are trying to consolidate some of the positions now to form the two units, or

the two divisions, as opposed to four regions previous.

So it seems to be some progress on that.

There

are still a number of positions to be filled.

As we said, the org model would take two years to implement.

We are in the second year now.

So we have a goal that we will be fully implemented by the end of March

of 2016.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Stephenville still serving as the intake call centre for the Income Support?

OFFICIAL:

I am sorry?

MS DEMPSTER:

Is Stephenville still

serving as the intake call centre for Income Support?

MS WHEATON:

Stephenville is the place in

the Province where all applications for new clients for Income Support are

processed, yes.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Thank you.

I have

to digress for a moment because this is just something I have heard out in my

district recently. Some days only

about 30 per cent of the calls are being managed, and very, very lengthy wait

times for people on Income Support.

Can you give us a little update on that?

MS DOOLING:

(Inaudible) calls that are

answered. We do keep statistics on

that.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

That would be great.

MS WHEATON:

Obviously when you go

through a transition Stephenville, actually, already had been doing

applications, but for the West Coast of the Province.

We had to gear up over there and so we actually hired additional staff so

that they could slowly take on the applications for the rest of the Province.

We had to go through a period of training.

Like with any change, you are slowly working your way to the ideal that

you want to be.

I did

some checking today just before I came, and for the past three or four days I

know that we are hitting 90 per cent of our calls.

We are a pretty busy operation.

We take about 800 applications a month.

Like any organization that offers a call service, some days you are going

to be busier than others, and certain times of the month are going to be busier

than others. As the minister

indicated, with the help of our quality assurance unit we are in the process now

of basically looking at what should be our future service standard as the unit

gets stabilized.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Thank you.

Can

you, just for my purpose, walk us through the process of when someone first

makes their contact with Income Support?

I am thinking about one of John Noseworthy's recommendations in that he

recommended employment and training assessments be completed when someone

presents for Income Support. Is

this happening? If so, how is it

working out?

MS WHEATON:

The first step was to get

all of the applications into one unit and to get that working really well.

The next step so in the fall what we will be doing is starting to

introduce a pre-screening so that we will actually be able to talk to

individuals, especially for certain parts of the Province that, really, we can

probably get you a job equally as fast in some parts of the Province as we can

get Income Support. Particularly,

we want to focus on youth in the first phase.

We have

been doing some piloting and testing around our referral process and getting

some feedback as to how to make sure that happens on a timely basis.

We will be ready for that in the fall.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Thank you.

Are

there any other assessments that are completed?

Are people questioned around barriers like disability, mental health,

addictions issues, and debt? Or is

that coming as well, as you move on to the next

MS WHEATON:

Typically, even today when you apply for Income Support, obviously we are

interested in what brought you to our service.

So people come to us because they have health issues, marital breakup, if

someone has just lost their job, they are between jobs, they have mental health

issues. So we do a bit of a look at

that now.

You

asked me earlier about our social workers.

Depending on what might come up in that initial intake, we might engage

our social worker, particularly if there are some homeless issues or victims of

violence. So we will do that today.

If it is a single parent, we have social workers we would refer

individuals to. Our staff also has

a lot of information about other services that are available in the community.

Even

if, through the application process, someone might not be eligible, we do

everything we can to connect people to other services we know they would be

eligible for.

MS DEMPSTER:

It is so important, because

while we might have some lifelong on Income Support, the goal should always be

for them to transition out.

I have

two more questions on that point. I

do not know if I am going to get there.

Income Support clients assigned; are they assigned a particular Client

Services Officer so that when they call in the next time they speak to the same

person that they might have started to establish a rapport with in the

beginning? Or is it always somebody

different?

MS WHEATON:

That is an interesting question. We

have 23,000 cases in receipt of Income Support.

People might be interested to know that of those 23,000, only 20 per cent

of them, once they get their recurring benefits which is you get your cheque

every fifteen days most people do not need the department contacting them or

interacting with them about their basic benefits.

About 20 per cent call us regularly for things like transportation and

vision care.

There

really is not much of a need to do case management, as such, on the Income

Support side. Where the case

management is really important is on the employment side.

We are in the process now, using Labrador as a test case, doing a really

thorough examination of every case that we have, looking at their barriers to

employment, what are their supports, and are they getting the right benefits.

Those

who need to be case managed from an employment services perspective will be case

managed with our employment staff.

Those who have very, very complex needs would be either case managed from a

social work perspective, or we would do a really strong linkage with our

partners in Health and Community Services because that is predominately where a

lot of the mental health and services are.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Thank you.

CHAIR:

Ms Michael.

MS MICHAEL:

Thank you very much.

Your

last comment there sounds like the weekly report of my constituency assistant.

She always does a report every Friday of what she has dealt with during

the week. At the end, she has all

the usual ones who call almost every day.

It is probably about 20 per cent of those as well.

Subhead

4.1.02, I think I finished .01.

Yes, I did. I asked my questions.

Under Salaries there was a big variance last year of $355,000.

Could we have an explanation?

MR. JACKMAN:

It is the same thing.

It was a decrease because of new positons that were not filled as we were

going through the transition. So

you will see that back up again for the coming year.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

So it is part of the transition.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

This is different, this year

it is $20,000 less than last year's budget.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes, it is

MS DOOLING:

That would be the general

salary increases but it is offset by funding that was taken out of our budget

for attrition management.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, thank you.

Employee Benefits, there was a lot more spent last year, $5,000.

Can we get an explanation?

MR. JACKMAN:

We had registration fees for

conferences, workshops, and some community group sessions that went on

association meetings. They were

higher than we expected.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, thank you.

Under

Transportation and Communications, I am assuming that is discretionary spending.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes, it is.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, thank you.

Supplies were approximately $1,000 more than budgeted.

Is there any particular reason?

MR. JACKMAN:

No, I think it was just

there were more supplies needed than people thought we were going to need.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, but you are leaving it

at the $9,000.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Under Purchased Services, a

variance upward of approximately $11,000.

MR. JACKMAN:

We have the JobsNL website.

So there is some additional funding required for maintenance of that

site.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, great.

You

bought something under Property, Furnishings and Equipment that you did not

expect too, it looks like.

MR. JACKMAN:

A new leather chair for the

minister's office.

No, I

am just kidding; but there were higher than anticipated costs for office

furniture and, in particular, some ergonomics.

MS MICHAEL:

I was just going to say, if

you had an ergonomic assessment done the chair probably did cost that, right.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Under 4.1.02 you did talk

about the training, et cetera could we just have a breakdown of the programs

that are being delivered?

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS DOOLING:

There was a one-time conference, Ms Michael, that we sponsored for the

Newfoundland and Labrador Employers' Council.

It was an annual conference.

That was $5,000 of it.

MS MICHAEL:

Right.

MS DOOLING:

We normally would not do that, but it was a one-time expenditure.

So that would be the bulk of the money that was spent there.

MS MICHAEL:

Right.

What other programs do you offer under your division there?

Was there anything else? Was

that the only thing that you did?

MS DOOLING:

Are you referring to the Employee Benefits piece?

MS MICHAEL:

Yes.

MS DOOLING:

That would just be regular conferences that staff would go to.

MS MICHAEL:

I guess I am looking at

the appropriations provide for the development and implementation of a

comprehensive suite of employment and training programs.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

You are talking about Employment Development Supports.

MS MICHAEL:

That is right.

MR. JACKMAN:

The Labour Market

Development Agreement.

MS MICHAEL:

Yes.

MR. JACKMAN:

A lot of these we are going

to go through as we progress through here.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

MR. JACKMAN:

There are six of them.

MS MICHAEL:

Right.

MR. JACKMAN:

These are all going to come

up here.

MS MICHAEL:

They are going to come up.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, very good.

Is the

Sector Skills Training Program included in this area?

MR. HOGAN:

Yes, sector skills is included as one of our funding programs.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

What sectors are covered under that, Dennis?

MR. HOGAN:

The initial pilot of the Sector Skills Training Program focussed on three

specific areas. One was retail

services, food and beverage services, and custodial maintenance.

MS MICHAEL:

Right.

MR. HOGAN:

We have also done sector skills sessions that were focussed on construction

labour activities. We do have the

ability to customize those, depending on the target group of individuals that we

are accepting into the program.

MS MICHAEL:

Right.

Could

we have a breakdown of the number of employers and workers?

MR. HOGAN:

Oh yes, we can make that available.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, great.

Thank you very much.

Now

4.1.03, here we have the Employment Development Programs.

Again, I think the variance of $100,000 under Allowances and Assistance

is just all part of that thing of uptake.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

Under

Grants and Subsidies, could we have first of all, there is a $700,000 variance

there downward from last year.

MR. JACKMAN:

Those are savings as a

result of the actual expenditures being lower than contracted for employers and

community groups. Now, there are a

number of them there. I do not know

if you want us to speak to them or we can do you up a list, whichever way you

want.

MS MICHAEL:

Of the grants and subsidies,

yes, that would be great.

MR. JACKMAN:

Okay.

MS MICHAEL:

Thank you very much.

course you have federal funding for this program.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Yes, okay.

The

programs we will get, and then you will do the list of organizations.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

Do we

have well, I am sure you do. How

many people left Income Support for work?

MR. JACKMAN:

Do we have that number now

or will we get it?

MS WHEATON:

We will have to get it.

Lots of people leave and do not tell us they have gone for work because

they just do not they will return their cheque.

We can probably get you ones that have participated in programs that we

offer like sector skills, but we can get you some information on that.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, thank you.

How

many single parent sites are there?

MR. JACKMAN:

The number of single parents

on?

MS MICHAEL:

Yes, how many programs

involving single parents? Do you

have numbers on that of single parents who are involved?

MS WHEATON:

We have one major program

that we offer in four locations across the Province called Employment

Transitions.

MS MICHAEL:

That is what I am talking

about.

MS WHEATON:

Corner Brook, Grand

Falls-Windsor, Marystown, St. John's.

There has been a bit of outreach to Carbonear.

The

minister referenced earlier an example of a program where there was less

expenditure. Marystown is a good

example. As a result of working

with that community group we have now altered that program.

So it is actually focused on single, older women.

We are running out of single parents actually.

MS MICHAEL:

Right, okay.

There

is a need among single, older women?

MS WHEATON:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Great, okay.

Well I will look forward to getting an update on that next year.

Thank

you.

All

right, now we can go to 4.1.03 no, I just did that one didn't I?

That is what I just did, sorry.

Subhead

4.1.04 Labour Market Development Agreement; of course this is EI eligibility

only under this one. I remember

that from my WRDC days.

Salaries a variance upward last year of $293,800 could we have an

explanation, especially because it comes back down to the same budget line this

year as last year?

MR. JACKMAN:

There was an increase due to

retirement and severance costs.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

MR. JACKMAN:

This is one part of it, and

the funding is reallocated with the corporate management agreement, the LMDA

programs.

I do

not know if you want to speak to it, Dennis, a bit further.

MR. HOGAN:

The salaries under this line

item, Ms Michael, are for regional operations.

So in the delivery of LMDA related programming.

As the

minister indicated, there were additional severance costs related to

retirements. That is what drove the

figure up for that line item.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, great.

course that whole transition is complete now with LMDA, provincial, federal.

All of that is

MR. HOGAN:

The devolution is, yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, great.

Thank

you very much.

I think

my time is up.

CHAIR:

Okay.

At this

point, it is 6:55 p.m. We will

break for five minutes and come back at 7:00 p.m. so they can get a break

downstairs.

Thank

you.

Recess

CHAIR:

We are back on.

Is everybody ready?

MR. JACKMAN:

Ready.

CHAIR:

The Broadcast Centre asked

me to remind everybody of one thing.

The minister has identified some people when they go to speak, but if you

say your name just before you speak and then your mic comes on, sometimes if you

start talking before the mic comes on, they are saying some of the audio is

clipped right at the beginning.

MR. JACKMAN:

You have to wait for the red

light.

CHAIR:

Yes.

If the minister identifies who he is asking, they usually do not have a

problem, but the catch-up of speaking and the light coming on.

The

other thing I just wanted to note is that really we have not gotten through half

of the line items yet, but there have been quite a few questions here and there

of the general nature. So I am

hoping that sort of balanced it off, that we are pretty well half way through;

but looking at line items, we are probably about one-third of the way through or

so, so we are behind on that.

I am

feeling that with the discretion of the members and the minister for answering

the questions then they will sort of pace themselves for the next

hour-and-a-half and we will try to be finished by 8:30 p.m., if we can.

Lisa,

are you ready to go?

MS DEMPSTER:

All right.

I just

have to pop back for a minute.

MR. JACKMAN:

There you go.

MS DEMPSTER:

Sorry.

CHAIR:

That is fine; we will

remember that when you divulge into a general question.

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes.

Under

2.1.01, Client Services Roxie alluded to a little bit, but I was wondering:

What is the average percent of calls being answered?

I know you said in the last week or something 90 per cent, but do you

have like a three-month average?

OFFICIAL:

(Inaudible).

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes.

Maybe

in that, too, I am wondering, what is the average wait time?

I have had a fair bit of feedback on that in my critic role, so I would

love to have clarification from you.

MR. JACKMAN:

Roxie.

MS DEMPSTER:

Pardon me?

CHAIR:

He is just identifying her

for the mic.

MS WHEATON:

Specifically, your question

related to applications or calls overall?

MS DEMPSTER:

Overall calls.

MS WHEATON:

Overall just to give you

an example: in comparison to, say, April in 2014, we answered 66 per cent of our

calls, on average; in April 2015, 87 per cent.

That would be overall for the entire Province, and that is pretty

consistent. So April, March,

February January was actually pretty good.

In January 2015, we answered 93 per cent of our calls;

whereas, in 2014,

we were answering only 76 per cent of our calls.

MS DEMPSTER:

So what would you say is the

average wait time now?

MS WHEATON: It

depends on what unit you are calling.

If you are calling, for example, looking for vision care, medical

transportation, the wait time there, you are probably getting through within two

minutes. Applications would be

longer just because, as you identified earlier, we are still getting that unit

up to fully functioning order.

I tried the applications unit yesterday myself because I

do periodically just to check and I got through probably within three to four

minutes. Certain days of the month

and certain days of the week Fridays are easier to get through.

Mondays are very busy Mondays or the day right after a long weekend is

a challenging time. So it is kind

of up and down.

As we are monitoring the call volume our goal would be to

make sure that we try to get all of the calls answered within two or three

minutes.

MS DEMPSTER:

Thank you.

I have

been hearing three or four hours, so that is quite a variance there.

MS WHEATON:

If you are hearing that it is three or four hours, when someone tells me that,

obviously, that would be inappropriate.

Generally speaking, whenever I have investigated those, it says that

there is some technological glitch that someone goes in a phone queue.

So if you have one of those, let me know.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Under

subhead 3.1.01, federal revenue, where does this come from, specifically?

MR. JACKMAN:

That is the Innu

MS DEMPSTER:

Pardon me?

MR. JACKMAN:

One part of it, $619,000, is

from the Innu agreement.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Can you

tell us why you received $600,000 more than anticipated last year?

MR. JACKMAN:

This money was received in

2014-2015. Somebody may be able to

speak to it a bit more than I can, but the notes here says it is reimbursed for

Income Support expenditures made in Innu reserve communities.

If you

want to speak more to it

MS DOOLING:

It would have been money that was related to the 2013-2014 fiscal year that was

not received until early in the 2014-2015 fiscal year.

It is just the timing of the revenues.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Provincial revenue where does that come from specifically?

Again, it looks like you received $700,000 more there than you had

anticipated.

MS DOOLING:

Those revenues would be from former and current Income Support clients for

overpayments that would have been made.

The minister gave some examples of that.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes, I gave an example to

Lorraine. Sometimes we get someone

who receives Income Support and they have applied for Canada Pension, then they

get it back. So they have to pay it

back to Income Support.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

couple of questions around the status of regional rental rate structures for

Income Support clients. In 2013, as

you will recall, we put forth a private member's motion calling for a regional

rental rate structure for Income Support clients that takes into account the

differing rental rates around the Province.

As you will remember, the motion passed unanimously in the House, and

that was just a follow-up from a recommendation of John Noseworthy's Business

Transformation Report.

What is

the status can you give us an update of implementing a new regional rental

rate structure?

MR. JACKMAN:

Now

MS DEMPSTER:

You missed the question?

Do you want me to ask again?

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS DEMPSTER:

What is the status of

implementing a new regional rental rate structure?

MR. JACKMAN:

I tell you, we have had the

OrgCode report that have come back, and we have had a committee that has gotten

together we selected some people from across the Province to go through the

recommendations of it, and they have put forward their opinions on it.

I have it now and I am going through it.

So, really I cannot comment on where this will end up going, but it is

certainly going to be a part of that discussion.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

What is

the maximum right now that a family can currently receive for rent?

I know it was $522 a month when we put forward that private member's

motion; that was in the fall of 2013.

MR. JACKMAN:

Who has the actual amount?

MS WHEATON:

(Inaudible) question specifically related to rent?

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes.

What is the maximum that a family can receive for rent right now?

I know it was $522 in the fall of 2013 when we did that PMR.

MS WHEATON:

Yes, that is exactly the same rate; there has been no change.

MS DEMPSTER:

No change, okay.

Income

Support caseload how many Income Support cases are there currently?

MR. JACKMAN:

You would have that, Roxie?

MS WHEATON:

The numbers that I have here in front of me is for the end of 2014.

We actually ended the fiscal year with 22,789, and it is continuing to

decline. So it took 22,789 cases.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

How

many front-line staff in AES are working with Income Support clients?

MR. JACKMAN:

Would anybody have that

knowledge?

MS WHEATON: I do

not have the breakdown and proportion.

MR. JACKMAN: We

can get it.

MS DEMPSTER:

Perfect.

Also, I am wondering what the client-worker ratio is.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes, okay.

OFFICIAL: We

will get that.

MS WHEATON: It

goes back to my comment earlier. A

client-staff ratio is really not relevant in Income Support because the majority

of clients, once you get set up and you get your

MS DEMPSTER:

Back to your 20 per cent figure.

MS WHEATON:

What is that?

MS DEMPSTER:

Back to your 20 per cent figure.

MS WHEATON:

Yes.

MS DEMPSTER:

Like up to 23,000 only about 20 per cent are using a service.

So I suppose we could figure out a ratio if we said 20 per cent versus

how many staff you have working.

MS WHEATON:

Sure, yes.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Has the department done any jurisdictional reviews to

determine what the ratios might be elsewhere?

I know what you just said, I am just wondering about that.

MR. JACKMAN: In

terms of the percentage numbers that you have had?

MS DEMPSTER: Of

client-worker ratio.

MR. JACKMAN: I

have not, no.

MS WHEATON: We

do a lot of comparison. We actually

communicate regularly with the other jurisdictions.

Everybody's model is slightly a bit different.

Newfoundland and Labrador is quite unique in the sense that

we actually have both Income Support and all of our employment services under

one entity. So it is hard to

compare because in other jurisdictions income support is in one department, and

if you want some of your other services you have to go somewhere else.

It is hard to compare apples to apples.

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes, I hear you.

What are the income cut-offs to qualify for Income Support?

I am thinking there a single person versus a couple.

MS WHEATON:

Sorry, I am trying to figure out how to answer the question.

It is not that there are income cut-offs.

If you are on Income Support and you leave, and you take a part-time job

or a full-time job, as your earnings increase we would deduct for example, if

you are a couple the first $150 and then we actually can consider all kinds of

earnings exemptions.

Then we have people out there who are working.

So it depends on what your transportation costs are and your child care

costs. Single parents can earn

quite a bit and still be entitled to a supplement from us.

That is a difficult question to actually answer because it would vary on

what your expenses are for work.

MS DEMPSTER:

Individual. Okay.

You have a chart of something you go by for that, I am

assuming.

MS WHEATON:

What is that?

MS DEMPSTER:

You have a chart or something that you go by, I am assuming, for that.

It is all those individual variances.

MS WHEATON:

Yes, we can get you

something that kind of gives you a little bit of a picture of what we use to

encourage clients, for example, to consider employment.

That would give you a picture.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Subhead

3.1.02, National Child Benefit Reinvestment; can you tell us a little bit about

this program and if there is an income cut-off again here?

I am looking at Roxie now because (inaudible).

MS WHEATON:

(Inaudible) I take my

direction from him.

MR. JACKMAN:

You go for it.

MS WHEATON:

The National Child Benefit

is a pot of money that back many, many years ago, when the federal government

started introducing changes to the Child Tax Benefit, Newfoundland and Labrador

had to demonstrate that we were making investments.

One of the investments that Newfoundland and Labrador made was to make

available money for private child care for families who wanted to go to work and

regular child care was not an option.

So that is what that pot of money is set aside for.

regular child care space increases in the Province, there is less and less

demand for private child care.

Predominately what you would see it being used for is if someone is working

evening shift and those kinds of things.

With less parents and less children, it has become less of a demand.

MS DEMPSTER:

So what would be the income

cut-off there?

MS WHEATON:

Again, it is not solely

related to working. You could tap

into this if you actually were participating in ABE.

You could tap into this if you were attending sector skills.

It is available as an expense for individuals so it depends on again what

your family size is and things like that.

MS DEMPSTER:

How would someone know about

that? How is it advertised?

MS WHEATON:

It is on our website.

Typically, how people would know about it is when a staff person is

working with a client and they say I am having difficulty finding child care

space. I am about to start a job,

what are my options? We would say

do not worry about it because we do have some monies available to support you.

CHAIR:

Okay.

Lorraine.

MS MICHAEL:

Thank you.

Subhead

4.1.04 and I am not going to ask some of the obvious ones, I am going to use

my discretion. So it is

discretionary decision making.

Come

down to Professional Services.

There was a variance downward of $29,000, so an explanation of that, but also an

explanation of what are the professional services that this covers?

MR. JACKMAN:

The professional services

that are covered are the fees charged by the federal government for access to

administration and accounting services.

Funding is also provided for an annual audit.

Now this year, basically there was a lower requirement than was

originally expected.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

By the audit you mean?

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Yes, okay.

Thank

you very much.

Then

Purchased Services, I think the same kind of question.

There was a larger variance there, $236,800.

An explanation of the variance, and also what is covered here?

MR. JACKMAN:

Here, what is covered again

is leasing costs, room rentals, advertising and promotions, and printing in

general, purchased services.

Funding for this was reallocated for the department, for development of a new

case management system and a self-service module.

If you

want other information, one of the staff can speak to it.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, please.

MR. JACKMAN:

Dennis.

MR. HOGAN:

Basically, we reallocated

some funding within the overall administration component of the LMDA program to

finish two components of our Labour Market system which has to do with case

management and accountability reports.

You will see in another activity that there will be an increase in money

for that area.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

So the money that was not spent under this category is somewhere else.

MR. HOGAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, thank you.

The

budget line is going up by $43,600 this year.

MR. JACKMAN:

Which ?

MS MICHAEL:

Of the Purchased Services

sorry.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

The reason for the increase

in the budget?

MR. JACKMAN:

I think I might have

mentioned that one before; it is the development of a new case management

module.

Okay.

That is a federal provincial administrative agreement for office leasing

costs.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, great.

Thank

you.

Coming

down to Allowances and Assistance, it was $8 million more than anticipated and

coming back down this year, so an explanation of that $8 million, please.

MR. HOGAN:

In that fiscal year, we had

an unanticipated increase in demand for our Skills Development program.

So we needed to allocate more funds under the LMDA into Allowances and

Assistance to serve individual clients.

Demand for that particular year rose by about 20 per cent or 1,400

clients.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

Is it

organizations and individuals who get money under this or just organizations?

MR. HOGAN: Under

Allowances and Assistance, it is assistance to individuals.

Under Grants and Subsidies, it is assistance to employers and other

organizations.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

Could we have a breakdown of the numbers covered under

Allowances and Assistance and the groups that get money under the Grants and

Subsidies, please?

MR. HOGAN: We

can provide a list, yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, great.

Thank you.

With regard to the Grants and Subsidies, there was a

variance downwards of $6 million last year.

I noticed you are going back up to approximately $20,600,000 for this

budget. Was it that you did not

have the uptake you expected? What

would be the reason for the $6 million variance?

MR. HOGAN: That

was part of the amount that we transferred into Allowances and Assistance.

We took it from Grants and Subsidies to provide for the increased demand

in Skills Development applications.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, thank you.

The

federal revenue has a variance downward of $11,500,000.

MR. HOGAN: That

actually was reflected in 2014-2015 as a result of a decision that was made in

the prior year related to the closure of EAS offices, Employment Assistance

Services offices, throughout the Province

MS MICHAEL:

Yes.

MR. HOGAN:

and the termination of those contracts, which resulted in the surplus amount

that has to be reallocated back to the federal government.

So because of the timing of the payment to the federal government, it

shows up again in this year's Estimates.

MS MICHAEL:

Right, okay.

Thank you very much.

Subhead 4.1.05, this is the Canada-Newfoundland and

Labrador Job Fund Agreement. The

Salaries has a $302,000 variance; just an explanation of that, please.

I think I probably know the answer, but I will not

MR. JACKMAN: Go

ahead, Dennis.

MR. HOGAN: In

this case there was a reallocation of administrative costs under the agreement,

and because the agreement

itself, the renewed agreement, the Canada-Newfoundland and Labrador Job Fund

Agreement was not signed until July, there was only a partial allocation.

MS MICHAEL:

Right, okay.

I figured it had to do with that, yes.

Coming

down to the Allowances and Assistance under this one; here, of course, it is

Appropriations provide for a range of employment and training supports to

unemployed individuals, low skilled employed individuals, employers and

community agencies. I guess it is

the same thing here, the Allowances and Assistance is what goes to individuals?

MR. HOGAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

The

variance, those $256,000 downwards in that line, I am assuming it is because you

cannot be right on again, when you do not know what the uptake is going to be

from individuals or what the need

MR. HOGAN:

The uptake does vary from year to year.

In this case we reallocated funds under the administrative line item for

salaries, and that is provided for under the job fund agreement with the federal

government.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

There

is a $400,000 variance in the budget for this year and from last years.

MR. HOGAN:

That relates to a reallocation of funds that we are now using under the job fund

agreement from our employment development support program.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

It is all coming out; all this is coming out now.

Then

under the Grants and Subsidies, is that reallocation as well, because there is a

million dollar variance from last year's budget and this year's budget?

MR. HOGAN:

Yes, that is a similar answer in relation to the $400,000, plus the $1 million.

So $1.4 million is now being allocated under the federal government

source of funds, versus formerly what was provincial funding.

MS MICHAEL:

Right, okay.

Under

the federal revenue, the money coming in from the federal government, it is a

$1,400,000 variance in this year's budget from last year's budget.

MR. HOGAN:

Again, that is the reallocation of funds to this program versus the provincially

funded program previously.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, thank you.

What

would the $46,000 revision, I am looking okay, that is strange.

Revenue Federal has a line, and then Total: Canada-Newfoundland and

Labrador Job Fund Agreement, and there is $46,000 there.

What is that sitting right in the middle by itself?

MR. HOGAN:

That would be Province-funded severance costs.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, great.

Thank

you.

I will

let it go because I only have about thirty seconds left.

Just let me check to make sure I do not have some general question there.

I am sorry.

Under

Grants and Subsidies, the usual thing, could we have a list of who gets money

under that?

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

Thank you.

CHAIR:

Okay, Lisa.

MS DEMPSTER:

If it is okay (inaudible)

just because I want my colleague to make sure he gets some questions in on

post-secondary. He will jump

further ahead, and depending on time will come back to me again.

Subhead

3.1.03; I have a couple of questions on the Mother/Baby Nutrition Supplement.

Can you tell us how many women received the supplement last year?

MS WHEATON:

In 2014-2015, there were

MS DEMPSTER:

How was it advertised Roxie?

MS WHEATON:

Because this program is not

just limited to individuals in receipt of Income Support it is anybody out

there who is low income we work very closely with Healthy Baby Clubs, the

public health nurse, GPs, and posters in pharmacies.

Short of going into the case room we try to get information out as much

as we can. If there is any kind of

information session at the community level, we try to do that as well.

MS DEMPSTER:

I know about the Healthy

Baby Club because in the case of Labrador and I know from when I used to sit

on the Provincial Wellness Advisory, advertising through case rooms, GPs and

stuff; you miss that whole population in Labrador because they do not have

these, it is just community clinics.

That is great that there is some partnering there with the family

resource centres and stuff.

I have

to just ask a question of clarification.

I was only partially listening when Ms Michael was asking.

Did I understand correctly that it was $12 million in missed federal

funds after the EAS offices were closed?

MR. HOGAN:

Yes.

Approximately $12 million related to the conclusion of the EAS contracts.

MS DEMPSTER:

Was that annual federal

money?

MR. HOGAN:

Yes, on an annual basis.

If I

could just clarify that, it was a one-time, but it had been $12 million that we

had been allocating to the EAS offices.

Now those funds are reallocated across other LMDA supports.

We are utilizing those funds.

In the year that the decision was made, regarding the closure of the EAS

offices, that is where the surplus had happened.

MS DEMPSTER:

Twelve million dollars,

federally, was lost.

MR. HOGAN:

For that allocation.

It went back to the federal government.

Now, going forward, we use the full allocation for different programs and

services. So it was a one-time

surplus.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Subhead

4.1.01, Workforce Development and Productivity Secretariat; Salaries underspent

by $185,000 last year.

MR. JACKMAN:

That is a result of

positions not filled because of the new reorganization model of the department.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

The

Premier had stated and I have asked a couple of questions on this in the House

the Workforce Development Action Plan was coming.

Can you give us an update? I

know two or three months ago he said coming soon.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes, well that is about all

I can say to you now too. That is

about it. We are going to be

rolling out a fair number of things over the next number of months.

That is about all I can tell you.

MS DEMPSTER:

Is this separate from the

health human resources plan that the Minister of Health alluded to recently?

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS DEMPSTER:

Separate.

Subhead

4.1.02, Salaries were underspent by okay, I have that answer.

I made a note. Sorry.

Purchased Services under this section, Employment and Training Programs;

anything different in what you purchased last year and what you will be

purchasing this year?

MR. JACKMAN:

Are you asking about the

variance there?

MS DEMPSTER:

No, I moved on because I got

that from Ms Michael's question earlier.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes, okay.

MS DEMPSTER:

Under Purchased Services, I

am just asking what did you purchase last year and what are the plans for this

year? Is it all the same generic

stuff, nothing noteworthy?

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes, it is primarily

printing, brochures, and advertising.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

MR. JACKMAN:

Nothing extraordinary, no.

MS DEMPSTER:

Under Employment and

Training Programs, are there any planned changes to what is currently being

offered?

MR. JACKMAN:

No.

MR. HOGAN: Other

than continual enhancements that we make to the programs, as a normal course of

business.

MS DEMPSTER:

Subhead 4.1.03, Allowances and Assistance; can you just explain to us maybe what

is covered here?

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes, those are savings oh, you want some of the programs that are covered

there.

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes.

MR. JACKMAN:

Okay, Dennis, yes.

MR. HOGAN:

Under Allowances and Assistance, we provide a range of supports for individuals.

They could be work supports, short-term training, and pre-employment

support, all in an effort to help individuals prepare for some type of

employment.

In the case of some individuals, we may provide equipment

or certain work-related clothing that they would need in order to start work on

a particular job site.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Under

Grants and Subsidies, can you explain to us what is covered here?

I am thinking if they are no grants and subsidies for individuals, can we

get a list?

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes, I have some of them

here but it probably just as easy if I provide you with the list.

MS DEMPSTER:

Why have we under spent last

year by $700,000?

MR. JACKMAN:

Again, what we have is that

the actual expenditures were lower than what the contracts were with the

employers. We have had a number of

these programs. We can do you up a

list of that one if you want to.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Again,

in the budget for this year we see that there is $150,000 reduction.

Are you expecting less uptake?

MS DOOLING:

Lisa, that would be based on

prior year spending. So we just

rightsized the budget for that.

MS DEMPSTER:

Sorry, can you repeat that

again?

MS DOOLING:

Why it is down by $160,000

from the original budget in 2014-2015?

MS DEMPSTER:

Yes, a $150,000 reduction.

MS DOOLING:

That is based on prior

spending levels. So what we did was

we rightsized the budget and reduced the budget this year, just based on

historical uptake in the program.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Under

federal revenue, where specifically is that $1.4 million coming from?

MR. JACKMAN:

It is from the Canada

Newfoundland and Labrador Job Fund.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

I am asking because there was no federal revenue last year, correct?

MR. JACKMAN:

Do you want to answer,

Dennis?

MR. HOGAN:

The $1.4 million is, as the

minister indicated, coming from the Job Fund Agreement.

What we are doing this year is allocating that amount toward employment

development supports that were previously funded by the Province.

So it would not have shown up in last year's Estimates and that is why

you would see it here in this.

It is a

change of the source of funding for that particular program and all the related

supports that come under it.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay, thank you.

Can you

give us the status of the Sector Skills Training Program?

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS DEMPSTER:

I am wondering what is the

annual budget? What has been spent

to date since it was created in 2013?

MR. HOGAN:

I know that we have served

approximately eighty-one in the last fiscal year.

We served approximately eighty-one clients in Sector Skills throughout a

range of different program options, whether they are retail services, food and

beverage services, or building and custodial maintenance, for the most part.

I mentioned previously that we have also done a Sector Skills Training

Program focussed on construction labourers as well.

I do

not have the exact expenditures in front of me but we can provide that to you.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay, thank you.

Dennis,

does this area provide training to Income Support clients exclusively?

MR. HOGAN:

Under the Job Fund Agreement?

MS DEMPSTER:

Under the Sector Skills.

MR. HOGAN:

That is one of the primary target groups that we are hoping to work with to

provide that transition from Income Support to sustainable employment, with the

expectation that there is a job offer at the end of the twelve week program.

It is

not exclusively for Income Support but the majority of clients would be in

receipt of assistance.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

Do we

have any idea what percentage of the participants are employed today?

MR. HOGAN:

I do not have the figures in front of me, but we have had some reasonably good

success in terms of long-term attachment to the labour market.

We can provide those details to you.

MS DEMPSTER:

Okay.

I appreciate it.

CHAIR:

Okay.

You time is expired.

Lorraine.

MS MICHAEL:

Under 4.1.06, Labour Market

Adjustment Programs, Salaries.

Obviously, there is just one position here.

What would the classification of that job be?

MS DOOLING:

The position?

MS MICHAEL:

Yes, the position.

MR. JACKMAN:

It is a coordinator for the

targeted initiative for older workers.

MS MICHAEL:

Oh, okay, great.

Coming

down to Grants and Subsidies, there was a $162,700 variance downward.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

There were six proposals received late from the federal government.

So the funds were disbursed in 2014-2015, and that is the 10 per cent

hold back.

MS MICHAEL:

Right, okay.

Could

we have a list of the

MR. JACKMAN:

The proposals?

MS MICHAEL:

proposals under Grants and

Subsidies?

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes, sure thing.

MS MICHAEL:

Thank you very much.

Under

the federal revenue, a variance upward of approximately $548,000.

MR. JACKMAN:

This was the result again of

receiving 2013-2014 revenues in 2014-2015.

It was received in May.

MS MICHAEL:

Right.

The usual federal government stuff.

MR. JACKMAN:

The same thing, yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, great.

Thank you.

Subhead

4.1.07, Employment Assistance Programs for Persons with Disabilities; again this

is for individuals. The Allowances

and Assistance is $525,000 more than was budgeted.

Next year we are back down to what was budgeted last year, so an

explanation of that, please.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes, the increase was the

net effect of $685,000 being allocated from Grants and Subsidies to Allowances

and Assistance for supported employment job trainers initiatives.

The increase was partially offset by $160,000 in disability support.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

Could

we have an idea of how many people have been assisted under the Allowances and

Assistance last year, for example?

MR. JACKMAN:

We will see if we can get

that for you. Who would have that?

Dennis.

MR. HOGAN:

It is approximately 280. I am just

going from memory, but we will confirm the figure with you.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

Thank you.

First

of all I will ask the question; the variance under Grants and Subsidies is

$1,055,000 last year. Could we have

an explanation of that? It is

probably federal funding again, is it?

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

Funding of $685,000 was reallocated from Grants and Subsidies to provide

additional individual support to job trainers and allowances.

That is the

section you are talking about, Grants and Subsides?

MS MICHAEL:

Grants and Subsidies, yes.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes, there were savings in

worker-related supports of $100,000 and there were savings in wage subsides of

$270,000. It was just not availed

of as much that is all.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

Could

we have a list of the programs, et cetera that were covered under the Grants and

Subsidies?

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

Thank you.

Under

Revenue Federal, I am assuming that is the same explanation as usual, money

from the year before.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

Thank you.

Subhead

4.1.08, in Grants and Subsidies there was a $505,000 variance downward.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes, these are savings that

resulted from actual expenditures being lower than contracted with certain

employers and community groups.

There is a list of those. We can

provide it to you, if you want.

MS MICHAEL:

You can provide that.

Thank

you very much.

there any particular reason for this year's budget being $72,000 lower than last

year's?

MR. JACKMAN:

This is a one-time budget

2014 decision to use the $200,000 from this activity for development of a case

management system. That was

returned to the main budget line for 2015-2016.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

MR. JACKMAN:

I do not know if anybody

wants to speak to additional details?

MS DOOLING:

We had some extra savings from Graduate Employment Programs that were offset

against them, Ms Michael.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

above in 4.1.07, there was a $200,000 variance downwards in the budget from last

year to this year. I think that was

the explanation you just gave as well.

MR. JACKMAN:

Which section?

MS MICHAEL:

The Grants and Subsidies in

4.1.07, the one above. That has the

$200,000 variance downward from last year's budget to this year's budget.

MR. JACKMAN:

That was part of the

MS DOOLING:

This was based on prior year spending levels as well.

So what we did was we looked at prior year spending levels and we

rightsized the budget then for going forward, Ms Michael.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

Thank you.

Back

down to 4.1.08. Could we also have

an idea of how many youth and students are being assisted under the Allowances

and Assistance there?

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes, we can.

We can provide you with the dollar figures that would break it down, yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

Thank you.

Subhead

4.1.09, Skills and Labour Market Research I just want to see what ones I want

to ask about. Professional

Services; there is a large jump from this year's budget of $150,000 to $450,000,

so a $300,000 jump.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

An explanation, please?

MR. JACKMAN:

That is going to be dollars

that were going to be used to run our Population Growth Strategy.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, very good.

What

else would be covered under the Professional Services there, besides the

Population Growth?

MR. JACKMAN:

Those are consulting fees,

working with economists on labour market information, for example; and the

Intergovernmental Conference Secretariat such as the Forum of Labour Market

Ministers.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

Then,

Purchased Services, again there is a big variance between last year's budget and

this coming budget.

MR. JACKMAN:

Again, that is higher than

anticipated expenses due to website supports and maintenance support.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, thank you.

There

is a job vacancy report, the Newfoundland and Labrador Job Vacancy Report 2014

and I do have a copy of that here, I think.

What is the purpose of that report?

MR. JACKMAN:

That is the job vacancy

report we just put out. What it

does is a scan across the Province looking at the types of jobs that are

available. Then, having this

information, it allows individuals and employers to look to the kinds of trends

you are seeing and look to where jobs are required.

It allows individuals to plan and it allows employers to plan.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

Subhead

4.1.10, Office of Immigration and Multiculturalism, Salaries no, I think that

is pretty straightforward.

Transportation and Communications, not much was spent on that: $35,000.

Was that discretionary?

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes, that is part of it.

MS MICHAEL:

Right.

Then it looks like you rightsized the budget line for this year.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, thank you.

Professional Services, $60,000 and only $5,000 spent.

You are coming back up to $40,000.

What would be covered under here with regard to Professional Services?

MR. JACKMAN:

Professional Services here, again it is consulting fees.

Around this one it is promotion and marketing materials that we use when

we go to immigration fairs and recruitment fairs.

MS MICHAEL:

Right.

This is

a question that does concern me.

There is a real lack in this Province of I do not even know if we have one

lawyers with experience in immigration.

Is there anybody in the Office of Immigration and Multiculturalism who

has some idea around the legal questions around immigration?

MR. JACKMAN:

(Inaudible) Dennis.

MR. HOGAN:

With respect to the Office of Immigration and Multiculturalism, the staff that

are in the office have many years of expertise in dealing with the federal

immigration system which is co-managed, to a degree.

The federal government has paramountcy, and there is training available

through the federal government that many of our staff have taken related to the

various pieces of legislation that govern immigration to Canada.

We also

have other resources available through the Department of Justice and other

departments to provide support to the Office of Immigration itself.

The staff have a high degree of expertise that they utilize in helping

people navigate the immigration system.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay

CHAIR:

I think your time is up, but

is there just a supplemental to this that you can

MS MICHAEL:

Yes, a comment I guess.

We can, with confidence, if we have people who are experiencing

difficulties, send them to the office?

MR. HOGAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

You do one-on-one work?

MR. HOGAN:

Correct.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, thank you very much.

CHAIR:

Scott.

MR. REID:

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

This is

my first time doing Estimates for this department.

As the critic for post-secondary education, I am particularly interested

in some of those heads, so I am going to jump ahead a little bit.

My colleague may go back to some of the previous ones, so we will be

going back and forth a little bit here.

The

first heading is 5.1.01, Apprenticeship and Trades Certification, on page 9.16.

I guess some of my questions may be a little more general than some of

the more experienced colleagues.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes, that is fine.

MR. REID:

Could you give me a little

more detail of what this expenditure entails?

MR. JACKMAN:

Who would speak broadly to

that?

CHAIR:

Bob Gardiner.

MR. GARDINER:

In terms of the Grants and

Subsidies I am sorry; let me jump to Professional Services.

Professional Services, a lot of it is money to the federal government

because there is a partnership kind of between all provinces and the federal

government through employment and skills development Canada.

We pay

the federal government approximately $20,000 for advisory in the exam

committees. Apprenticeship Program

Accreditation sorry, that is not the federal government part.

Professional Services, the advisory on exam committees is approximately

$20,000; that is people you bring in to advise on exam creation and also advise

on the plans of training.

Apprenticeship Program Accreditation honorariums, that is people we bring to

institutions to see if the programs are up to speed in terms of accreditations

so we can give them an honorarium.

ICEMS is the exam management system that does go through the federal government

because, as you know, it is a Red Seal Program so the federal government manages

that system. The Power Engineering

exam fees are approximately $3,000.

From

Purchased Services there is $65,000 for national apprenticeship standards;

again, that is a federal government program.

Promotions for underrepresented groups, we spend approximately $40,000

for that. That is primarily the

Office to Advance Women Apprentices, the conference that they do for women every

year. Last year it was in Labrador.

Room rentals are $25,000.

Printing, advertising, and promotions are about $6,000.

Grants

and Subsidies, we have $200,000 for Aboriginal people and apprentices; $200,000

for the Office to Advance Women Apprentices.

We pay a fee to the college for distance delivery, primarily development

and ongoing maintenance. The

Apprenticeship Wage Subsidy was about $6.6 million and the government hiring

apprenticeships program is about $1.75 million.

MR. REID:

The wage subsidy how does

that work?

MR. GARDINER: The

Apprenticeship Wage Subsidy?

MR. REID: Yes.

MR. GARDINER:

Basically, an apprentice will apply to the department to get a wage subsidy.

It has been on the go now for, I think, three or four years.

The primary targets for the wage subsidy were first- and second-year

apprentices, recognizing that they were the most difficult ones to attach to the

labour market. So, there was a 90

per cent wage subsidy for first-year apprentices, an 80 per cent wage subsidy

for the second year, and a 60 per cent wage subsidy for the third and fourth.

Again, first- and second-year apprentices made up about 90 per cent of

those clienteles.

MR. REID: Yes.

I noticed the salary expenditure was overspent this past

year. What is the explanation for

that?

MR. GARDINER:

The explanation would be we had two retirements and severance.

MR. REID:

Severance, okay.

MR. GARDINER: A

director and an admin person.

MR. REID: Yes.

I am going to skip ahead to the

MR. JACKMAN:

Scott, I would say to you, the number of programs, there are many of them and

getting your head around them so if you are interested at some point in coming

over and sitting down to dig in to it further, feel free.

MR. REID: Okay,

that might be useful.

Maybe you could provide a list of the grants and subsidies,

as a beginner, and then I can come by.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MR. REID: I am

going to jump ahead to the university because it is a significant expenditure

and I want to spend a bit of time on this.

Just generally, I want to get a sense of this is a major

expenditure and I know in different countries and different places, even

different provinces, there are different

relationships between

governments and the universities. I

am just wondering, can you tell me about the nature of the relationship here?

I know it is the idea of arm's length, but what sort of discussions do

you have with the university about the way it expends the money that is

allocated to them?

MR. JACKMAN:

Well, Bob can speak to some

of the dealings he has with the university.

I think there are two things that I would look at from a programming

perspective. I know when I was with

education we often had many conversations with Kirk Anderson around how we can

more closely correlate the programming to things that are happening out in the

schools and in the training sector of Memorial for teachers.

Then

the other one is the operations.

Basically, what happens is Memorial receives a certain budget, and then if there

are additional projects that they want to undertake, they come and make their

presentation to us as a department and they enter into a budget cycle, just the

same as it would any other. They

have to have certain base funds that they need to operate, to pay their staff

and their operations. So anything

in addition to that, then they come in with a special request.

MR. REID:

Yes, okay.

The

overspending last year by $8.5 million, why was that?

MR. JACKMAN:

That is negotiated wage

increases and signing bonuses in accordance with the government template for

MR. REID:

Okay.

terms of Operations, Grants and Subsidies, can you give us a basic breakdown of

some of the grants and subsidies?

Maybe it is more this is a detailed question, I guess.

Can we get some details on that?

MR. JACKMAN:

I think probably the best

thing for us to do with that is probably we develop something and forward it to

you?

MR. REID:

Yes, okay.

terms of the Physical Plant and Equipment, again, what are the Grants and

Subsidies under that heading?

MR. JACKMAN:

Which section?

Where are you right now?

MR. REID:

Under 5.2.02 Physical Plant

and Equipment.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MR. REID:

I am just wondering again,

this allocation, is it made up of specific capital work?

Can we have a breakdown of this expenditure?

MR. JACKMAN:

Of the grants and subsidies?

MR. REID:

Yes.

MR. JACKMAN:

Are you asking why it was

revised down or just a general overview of what they are?

MR. REID:

Just an overview.

If you want to answer them all together, the question about: Why was it

underspent last year and why has it decreased so drastically this year?

MR. JACKMAN:

One of them was that there

were some projects they had which they just could not fully complete in

2014-2015, so what they have requested is that that funding be advanced to

2015-2016.

Then

the second thing was, there is approximately a $10 million decrease from the

previous year relates to completion of some projects.

There has been completion of projects such as the residence, St. John's

residences. There was some deferred

maintenance projects, together with the reduction in infrastructure spending by

MUN. There were also some

additional reductions in furniture and equipment allocations.

MR. REID:

The expenditures for the new

Science Building, is that included in the budget here?

Where does that show up?

MR. JACKMAN:

This is the core science

funding, Bob.

MR. REID:

Where would that show up in

the budget?

MR. GARDINER:

There is no reflection of

funding for the core science facility in this year's budget.

Government is actually contributing $125 million towards the core science

facility from the Hebron Project.

That money does not start to flow to MUN until 2017-2018, I think.

It is a couple of years out.

In the

interim, MUN are actually borrowing money from the Immigrant Investor Fund which

is money the federal government has given the Province for those types of

infrastructure projects. They will

borrow that money at a very low interest rate.

Then in a couple of years' time they will use the Hebron money to pay it

back.

Other

than that, the total cost of the project is $325 million.

They have $25 million put aside right now and they will borrow $175

million. Government will borrow on

their behalf in 2019-2020 when it is finished and then they will amortize that

over approximately thirty years at a $10 million payment a year.

MR. REID:

Okay.

I will

come back to that later. I notice

my time is

CHAIR:

Lorraine.

MS MICHAEL:

Thank you.

Since

we are in that area, under 5.1.0 you do not need to look at the line items.

I am just wondering if we could have a breakdown or given the numbers

with regard to the number of apprentices who were registered in 2014-2015, how

many people doing journeyperson training.

Could we have a gender breakdown on apprentices and journeypersons?

How many journeyperson certificates were issued in 2014-2015?

How many apprentices have gotten work; who have been part of the AES

program and have work?

MR. JACKMAN:

Okay, I think the best thing

for us to do that we would not have all that information, but we will see how

much of it

MS MICHAEL:

You would not have all of

that; whatever you have.

MR. JACKMAN:

Whatever we can gather up.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

MR. JACKMAN:

I imagine we could get the

gender

MS MICHAEL:

Yes.

So whatever statistics you keep on that that would be helpful.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

CHAIR:

Bob Gardiner.

MR. GARDINER:

Yes, just some general stats off the top of my head, because I never brought it

with me. Last year there were

approximately 700-and-some-odd journeyperson certificates issued, which was

about doubled from 2007. Last year

around, or at the end of the year we had about 6,700-6,800 apprentices

registered, which was about and I think it is 94 per cent higher than 2007.

MS MICHAEL:

That is great.

MR. GARDINER:

Now I do not have any gender breakdown on that, but we can certainly get that

gender breakdown.

MS MICHAEL:

I am very interested in the

gender breakdown.

MR. GARDINER:

In terms of apprentices employed, if they are registered as apprentices on our

system, then they are under a memorandum of understanding.

So we automatically assume they are employed.

MS MICHAEL:

Right.

MR. GARDINER:

If we find an apprentice is inactive for eighteen months, a couple of years,

then we would try and contact the apprentice to find out what the situation is.

So we would not know if all those 6,700 are actually working.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay, thank you.

Whatever information you have that would be great.

Thank

you.

MR. GARDINER:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

All right, I am going to

back up; 4.1.11 Case Management System Development.

It is basically one question, because $200,000 was budgeted but $330,000

was the revision. So just an

explanation of that revision.

MR. JACKMAN:

There was a project that is

completed and funding

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

So the system is now in place, is it?

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

That is great.

Okay,

thank you.

Subhead

5.1.02 under Grants and Subsidies, $5,012,000 was budgeted and the variance was

$350,000 downwards. Could I just

have an explanation of that?

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes, that is based on

timelines for project starts and approvals.

There is going to be about $350,000 under the foreign qualifications

grant funding for this year.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

Thank you.

That

will go for the revenue. Yes, the

same kind of thing there. You only

have $50,000 from them this year, from the federal government.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

Because $400,000 was

budgeted and you got $50,000.

MS DOOLING:

The money would not be lost,

Ms Michael. We will get that money

from the federal government.

MS MICHAEL:

That is what I figured, yes.

They

are really slow, aren't they, in giving you the money.

I notice that all the time.

MR. JACKMAN:

Yes.

MS MICHAEL:

A couple of things and these

are more general questions. Will

there be an adult literacy strategy this year?

Can we look forward to seeing that?

MR. JACKMAN:

We are still working on

that. I do not know if we will have

it out this year or not, but I can tell you that the work is continuing on it.

MS MICHAEL:

Right.

April, the department gave $100,000 in project funding to Literacy NL for adult

work or literacy projects. Do the

participants in that have to be EI eligible?

MR. JACKMAN:

That, I do not know.

MR. HOGAN:

Not necessarily.

The program funding comes from the Labour Market Partnerships Program.

That funding is intended for sectors or communities of interest to

develop capacity to help advance labour market issues.

In this case, Literacy NL is using that money for specific projects under

the parameters of that program, but no, the individuals would not have to be EI

eligible for that particular program.

MS MICHAEL:

Right.

Thank you.

Minister, I am wondering: Has there been any monitoring of the ABE programs in

the private colleges? Do we have

any assessment of uptake of ABE programs now that we have had them move outside

of the College of the North Atlantic?

MR. JACKMAN:

Bob?

MR. GARDINER:

Last year, from April 2014

to March 2015, there were 1,849 students served in the ABE program in private

training colleges. Community-based

organizations offered ABE to 161 students.

Since

it moved to the private college there has been significant monitoring of

students. There is a monthly

attendance sheet that comes in to make sure that people are attending, and a

monthly progression sheet to make sure that people are making progress in the

program.

MS MICHAEL:

Has the number changed?

MR. GARDINER:

Have the numbers changed. The

number, I would suggest to you, would have been lower last year.

I do not have the exact comparison.

Initially, when the private training institutions moved into the

communities that were previously served by CNA, it was a slower uptake, but they

are now approximately where CNA would have been.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

I do

not expect you to give this to me now, but could we have the figures for those

enrolled in each of the levels? If

you have them there, that would be great.

MR. GARDINER:

No, I do not have them here. I did

not write them down, but yes, we do have those.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay.

MR. GARDINER:

The biggest uptake, of course, is ABE Level III.

MS MICHAEL:

Right.

Could

we also have the numbers of graduations?

MR. GARDINER:

Yes, I do have that. The numbers

that graduated from September 2013 to August, 2014 were 403.

The previous year for the same time period was actually 506 so there were

100 less graduates. It was mostly

because of the slow uptake at the beginning of the year when the new training

institutions were getting established.

While they were open, it was new and different, and it took them a while

to kind of get traction and get their legs for the program.

MS MICHAEL:

So I guess we will have to

wait until next year to find out what has happened this year.

MR. GARDINER:

Absolutely.

MS MICHAEL:

Okay