role="main" class="main-container container js-quickedit-main-content" id="main-content">

November 18, 2004

38th Parliament, 1st Session

< Previous sitting day

Next sitting day >

Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2004-Nov-18 (PDF)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L'ONTARIO

Thursday 18 November 2004 Jeudi 18 novembre 2004

PRIVATE MEMBERS'

PUBLIC BUSINESS

PROVINCIAL STATUTORY HOLIDAY

MUNICIPAL AMENDMENT ACT

(HOSPICES EXEMPTION), 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR LES MUNICIPALITÉS

(EXONÉRATION ACCORDÉE

AUX HOSPICES)

PROVINCIAL STATUTORY HOLIDAY

MUNICIPAL AMENDMENT ACT

(HOSPICES EXEMPTION), 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR LES MUNICIPALITÉS

(EXONÉRATION ACCORDÉE

AUX HOSPICES)

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

ANNETTE LISABETH

MARLENE STEWART STREIT

PIT BULLS

ONTARIO FILM AND

TELEVISION INDUSTRY

FOSTER AND ADOPTION FAMILIES

PREMIER OF ONTARIO

PUBLIC INQUIRY

HEALTH CARE FUNDING

GREY CUP

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON ESTIMATES

VISITOR

MOTIONS

HOUSE SITTINGS

CONSIDERATION OF BILL 18

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

DEMOCRATIC RENEWAL /

RENOUVEAU DÉMOCRATIQUE

ORAL QUESTIONS

SCHOOL TRUSTEES

HOSPITAL FUNDING

HYDRO GENERATION

NATIONAL CHILD

BENEFIT SUPPLEMENT

LABOUR RELATIONS

AUTISM SERVICES

SCHOOL TRUSTEES

COMPOSTING FACILITY

SPECIAL EDUCATION

RENEWABLE FUELS

DEMOCRATIC RENEWAL

SEXUAL REASSIGNMENT SURGERY

EDUCATION FUNDING

PETITIONS

LANDFILL

SEXUAL REASSIGNMENT SURGERY

ANAPHYLACTIC SHOCK

SPORT PARACHUTING

CHIROPRACTIC SERVICES

HEALTH CARE FUNDING

CHIROPRACTIC SERVICES

ANAPHYLACTIC SHOCK

PIT BULLS

HEALTH CARE SERVICES

CARDIAC CARE

ORDERS OF THE DAY

AUDIT STATUTE LAW

AMENDMENT ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

EN CE QUI CONCERNE

LA VÉRIFICATION DES COMPTES PUBLICS

WITH DISABILITIES ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 SUR L'ACCESSIBILITÉ

POUR LES PERSONNES HANDICAPÉES

DE L'ONTARIO

The House met at 1000.

Prayers.

PRIVATE MEMBERS'

PUBLIC BUSINESS

PROVINCIAL STATUTORY HOLIDAY

Mr Mike Colle (Eglinton-Lawrence): I move that, in the opinion of this House, the Legislative Assembly of Ontario shall declare the first Monday

in August a provincial statutory holiday to be called Ontario Day.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Bruce Crozier): Mr Colle has moved ballot item number 39. Pursuant to standing order 96, Mr Colle, you have up to 10

minutes.

Mr Colle: First of all, Mr Speaker, I just want to inform you and all the members of the House that I've placed on your desks an Ontario road

map for your convenience, not only during this debate. I think it's a good resource to have in our desks, because as you know, when issues come up in the Legislature, there are different

communities named that we may not be familiar with. So I think it's very good and useful to look up on the map and see where these communities are that are named in the House, because some of us

may be from parts of Ontario that are far away from communities named in the Lake of the Woods area. So I think it's a good idea to have one.

By the way, the first thing I noticed on the Ontario map that was given is that it mentions Pancake Bay Provincial Park, and I said, "I don't know where Pancake

Bay Provincial Park is. I wonder where it is and if someone can inform me."

Mr Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North): There's life beyond the GTA.

Mr Colle: Exactly. I think that's what this resolution today is about. It's about making us, as Ontarians, become more aware of the wonderful

regions we have in this province -- the communities, the cities, the towns, our provincial parks -- so that we can celebrate these regions, celebrate the local history, celebrate the local heroes.

It's an opportunity, really, for us to complement what exists already in many communities.

As you know, the August 1 long weekend has many names. If you asked people on the street, anywhere in Ontario, you would probably get a variety of different

comments on what it's called. To most people it's probably known as the August 1 long weekend. But if you went to Windsor, it's known as Emancipation Day. If you come to Toronto, it's known as

Simcoe Day. In Burlington, it's Joseph Brant Day. In Brantford, it's Founders' Day. In Oshawa, city council passed a resolution to call it McLaughlin Day. In Ottawa, it's Colonel By Day -- this is

the August 1 long weekend. In Sarnia, it's Alexander Mackenzie Day. In Cobourg, for instance, it's James Cockburn Day. I think that by giving this August long weekend a focus and calling it Ontario

Day, we can complement the existing local holidays and give them more profile, and make Ontarians become more involved in celebrating their local history, more involved in inviting people to visit

different parts of Ontario during that long weekend in August, not only people from across Ontario, but maybe our visitors to the south or our friends and neighbours in other provinces, who would

be welcome to come to Ontario and share in the spectacular parts of Ontario.

Whether you want to experience the majestic beauty of the Muskokas, the Agawa Canyon, the wonderful area in the far eastern part of Ontario, which is bounded by

the Ottawa River and the St Lawrence River, the Stormont-Dundas-Glengarry area, which has some of the oldest communities in Ontario, like Alexandria and Hawkesbury, or whether you go to the far

north and want to visit the majestic beauty of the James Bay basin, there are limitless opportunities for Ontarians to partake in these wonderful regions. It's not only uplifting as part of the

cultural or historical perspective; there's also great economic benefit by promoting visits, by promoting tourism. Because the reality is that if we don't promote Ontario ourselves, if we don't

promote our own communities, who will? If we, as a government, or we, as legislators, don't promote the wonderful things that exist in Ontario, there's no way that our children will ever appreciate

the beauties of Manitoulin Island, the spectacular Great Lakes, the North Shore of Superior.

The Speaker himself represents maybe one of the most spectacular birdwatching areas in the world: Point Pelee and Pelee Island. People all over the world come to

Pelee Island because it has an incredible, spectacular event every year in May when people see birds that are rare, and, again, memorable. In fact, it was mentioned that the fastest-growing

recreational activity in Canada is actually birdwatching, believe it or not. So whether you want to be into birdwatching, or into whitewater rafting in the Ottawa Valley up by Killaloe, there are

incredible opportunities for Ontarians or visitors to celebrate the wonderful beauties of this province.

In this act, what I'm trying to do is essentially say we have to start to celebrate, promote and bring focus to these incredible, diverse regions of this

province so that they're preserved and protected, but also enjoyed. It brings local economic benefit. It brings, as I say, cultural benefit. It brings a focus. We as Ontarians perhaps don't do

enough of that for our own province. Perhaps, during this August 1 long weekend, whether it be with the provincial government or the Ministry of Tourism, we should partner with local communities to

undertake exciting events or celebrations of these wonderful component parts of this province.

We hear of all kinds of people, during the summer now, travelling south to Florida. Perhaps we should be saying, "During that August 1 long weekend, stay in

Ontario. Travel to different parts of this province and get to know the wonderful people and communities and also the wonders of nature that exist, our provincial parks." Algonquin provincial park

is bigger than most European countries. We as Ontarians perhaps take that for granted.

Look at the lake regions, whether it's the Kawarthas, an hour's drive from Toronto. Why go across the border when you can spend a spectacular week or weekend in

the Kawarthas, Lake Simcoe region, the Collingwood area or Georgian Bay? Or, if you want, as I've said, travel down to the southernmost part of Canada toward Lake Erie, and you can go to Port

Stanley. You can go to the St Catharines area. We hear all kinds of talk about the Napa Valley. We have something comparable in the Niagara region here, some of the finest agricultural lands with

spectacular places to visit. Niagara Falls is an international landmark to celebrate.

My attempt here with this resolution is just to say that we have to perhaps be more focused, more aggressive in terms of trying to market, if you like. I know

sometimes it's a word we don't like to use with our province, but we've got to market this wonderful legacy we've been left stewards of. I think we owe it to the ones who came before us, whether it

was a John Graves Simcoe, the great pioneers who established this wonderful province, to continue to nourish it and appreciate it.

I really think most of us do not appreciate or celebrate the greatness of this province. It's nothing that's man-made, necessarily; it's something that has been

given to us by nature. We can stand up to anyone or any part of North America certainly, or the world, in terms of our natural wonders, beauties and recreational pursuits.

So by declaring this day -- by the way, the technicality is that it's not even a statutory holiday, and everybody assumes it is, although for the most part,

people do get the day off. But it's not a statutory holiday, and we have so few of them to begin with.

Hopefully, we can give it more profile. We can start to become a bit excited about this weekend, and just maybe learn from the Americans. Look what they do with

Thanksgiving weekend. It's a huge holiday that not only lets Americans sit down and celebrate their families and give thanks, but it's a great boon to the economy. The greatest shopping weekend of

the year is this Thanksgiving weekend in the United States.

I'm not saying we have to copy the Americans, but we have to start to wave our own flag a little bit. We have to start to celebrate these immensely wonderful

communities in this province, and maybe this is the day to do it, on the August 1 long weekend. Why not give it some focus and call it Ontario Day?

The Deputy Speaker: Further debate?

Mr Toby Barrett (Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant): I also, in the past, have called for a provincial statutory holiday and a renaming of the day. My

approach is to recognize the history and the heritage and the progress of this great province of Ontario. I will remind members that there is a civic holiday celebrated by many on the date that

this motion is proposing, and many refer to that holiday as Simcoe Day, the first Monday in August.

The mid-summer long weekend is a cherished institution for many. The first Monday of August is also known as Civic Holiday. It was instituted in Ontario 20 years

ago and, prior to that, the first Monday in August for many had been known as Simcoe Day across much of Ontario. It's still known as that by many in Toronto and, obviously, in Simcoe county, by

many in the town of Simcoe, down in Norfolk county, in my riding, again exemplifying the diversity within our province, in contrast to a move here for a one-size-fits-all solution.

In June 2000, I introduced a resolution in this House to reinstate the designation of Simcoe Day in honour of Lieutenant Governor John Graves Simcoe and his

tremendous contributions to the creation of Ontario. I believed then, and I still believe, that restoring Simcoe Day would be a tribute to this person, one of the founders of Upper Canada.

I tabled my resolution on June 19, a day that seemed fitting. I had just joined a fellow Loyalist who celebrated Ontario's United Empire Loyalist Day here at

Queen's Park. Oxford county resident Woody Lambe was seated in the gallery that day. He was dressed as Lieutenant Governor John Graves Simcoe after participating in the UEL celebrations. I took the

opportunity to introduce him to the Legislature as I put forward the resolution.

I'll open a few pages in the history books to give an idea of why people have honoured the memory of John Graves Simcoe for so many years on the first Monday of

August. John Graves Simcoe was a British military officer appointed the first Lieutenant Governor of Upper Canada, in 1790. He was 38 years old at the time. He arrived in Upper Canada two years

later. At that time, he was serving as a member of Parliament in the British House of Commons, the member for Cornwall. He'd been to North America previously as a colonel in the British army,

fighting the American revolutionaries up until the early 1780s. At that time, he actively lobbied to become Upper Canada's Lieutenant Governor.

This was a man who threw himself into his work to establish Upper Canada. He studied the maps and decided the best site for the capital of Upper Canada would be

on the River Thames, present-day London. He had to settle for the temporary capital at Newark -- that would be Niagara-on-the-Lake -- and eventually, as we know, the British government moved the

capital here to York, also known as Toronto.

In Simcoe's six years as Lieutenant Governor, Upper Canada changed a great deal. In 1793, Simcoe brought in the first legislation in the British Empire to

abolish slavery. As well, we recognize that Upper Canada only had a population of 10,000, mainly in the Bay of Quinte area, and needed settlers to foster the immigration of thousands of United

Empire Loyalists from what is now the United States by ensuring that land was distributed to prospective farmers, cheaply and expeditiously.

Under Simcoe's direction, construction began on Yonge Street, the great link between York and Lake Simcoe. Yonge Street was designed for both commercial and

military purposes. Lieutenant Governor Simcoe also established Dundas Street, the road, again, from the head of Lake Ontario to London, designed at that time as a military road.

Though some of his many projects were never realized, Simcoe's tenure as our Lieutenant Governor of the day is universally regarded as a success. He imparted

optimism for the potential of Upper Canada, a potential that clearly has been realized today: Streets, bodies of water, a town, a county and many great monuments all bear his name. I believe it's

important for us to remember our historical roots and celebrate Simcoe Day the first Monday of August.

Mr Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): I'm pleased to speak on this issue today. First of all, I want to make reference to some of the comments

that Mr Colle, in whose name this stands, made earlier. Let me say that for me the issue is not whether we rename what is customarily known as the Civic Holiday, the first Monday of August, as

Ontario Day. I don't think that would be the issue for a majority of Ontarians. I think what the majority of Ontarians would indeed want is to have that off as a statutory holiday. Most people find

themselves in the modern world today working longer and harder for less, and finding time to be with your family, finding time where you can actually have a weekend, is becoming increasingly a

pressing issue for more and more Ontarians.

I want to offer some proposals for Mr Colle that might actually make this more meaningful. If the provincial government said, for example, that on the weekend of

Ontario Day, Ontario residents would have free access to the provincial parks of Ontario, that would make this a real celebration. If the goal is to keep more Ontarians in Ontario and to help them

celebrate this occasion, then I think two things are necessary: This must be a civic holiday and must be entrenched in the Employment Standards Act as a civic holiday, and the province should

promote it further by saying that all Ontarians, regardless of income -- Ontarians who live in downtown Toronto and who are struggling on a modest income -- will have free access for the weekend to

provincial parks. Then we would have real recognition, real celebration. We would really be doing something meaningful.

So I say to the member, I wish him good fortune with this. But I say particularly to government members, if you really want to get behind this, there are two

things that need to happen: This must be entrenched as a real holiday, a statutory holiday -- it must be recognized in the Employment Standards Act -- and the province will need to take some

additional steps to ensure this is not just superficial, that it becomes really meaningful for working families across this province.

But I say to the member, why stop here? I listened very carefully to what you said about the United States. Having gone to school and lived in the United States

for a while, I know what a huge holiday Thanksgiving is. In fact, in many American states Thanksgiving is actually a bigger holiday than Christmas. What I want people to note is that it's not just

one day for Americans. In fact, they work it so that it is a four- or five-day holiday. When I was going to university in the United States, classes ended on Tuesday afternoon and you were gone

Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. That was the Thanksgiving break. So if we really want to make this into something and if we really want to give a sense to people that we take

statutory holidays more seriously and we really want to provide people with this opportunity, that's another step that needs to be taken. Let's really turn it into a long weekend. If we're really

going to celebrate Ontario's heritage, if we're really going to celebrate Ontario as a place to come to, a place to visit, a place to grow, and if we want to refer to the American experience with

Thanksgiving, then I suggest there needs to be a further add-on as well. Then you've got something.

Let me take it one step further. The member referred to the United States, and I listened to and agree with his arguments with respect to the American

recognition of statutory holidays. The United States has far more statutory holidays than we have. If you add them up, there's Lincoln's day, Washington's day, Memorial Day, Thanksgiving,

Independence Day --

Mr Colle: Columbus Day.

Mr Hampton: Yes, and it goes on. My suggestion, because I think part of this -- and I heard your words -- is that we want people to be able to

appreciate what we have to offer here, we should not stop here. We should probably add another statutory holiday. If you want to add that statutory holiday on to the Ontario Day weekend, I think I

could support that. If you want to add that statutory holiday into the January-February doldrums, when many working families feel they are especially working longer and harder for less -- and if

you happen to live in the Toronto area, you don't see the sun for two months; what you see are basically clouds for two months -- I would support that, because I think that kind of idea is long

overdue.

For those people who say, "Oh, this would be a drag on the economy," go to the United States and try to advance that argument, that it's a drag on the economy

that you celebrate these many and diverse statutory holidays. You'd be laughed out of the country.

I say to Mr Colle and to others who have spoken in favour of this, this is an excellent idea, but I think you're being a little too modest. If we really want to

do this and do it right, we need to build in three or four add-ons. Then we'd have something that Ontarians would celebrate. Not only would Ontarians celebrate it, but I think you can make it into

the kind of thing where people would want to come from elsewhere to take part.

I speak as someone who lives in a community where half a million Americans cross the border to come to Ontario every year between the months of May and

September. Most of them come because they want to catch fish or they want to hunt moose or deer. They used to hunt bear, but that was taken care of by someone a while ago. So I speak as someone who

knows that we have a lot here to attract people with, but we have never done enough as a province in terms of selling ourselves. This is an opportunity to sell ourselves. This is an opportunity to

say, "Hey, this is the time to celebrate Ontario. This is going to be a four-day weekend. All Ontarians are going to take part, those with the highest incomes and those who are struggling on the

lowest incomes. We're going to open up the provincial parks. We're going to have a heck of a celebration. Come on over." In the United States, they say, "Come on down." We should say, "Come on

over."

Mr Colle: "Come on up."

Mr Hampton: I say to the member who brought this forward, I'll support this, but I hope you'll recognize in the comments I've made that there

are other things we need to do. If we acknowledge that this is something that works in the American culture, we should go further in terms of establishing other statutory holidays in Ontario. It

would be good for working families, it would be good for the economy, and it would give us this further sense that we have something to celebrate.

I look forward to some of the further discussions. I know one of my colleagues may want to speak on this a little more in a few minutes.

The Deputy Speaker: Further debate? The member from --

Interjection: Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh.

The Deputy Speaker: Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh. I couldn't get that started for some reason.

Mr Jim Brownell (Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh): Yes, a tourist destination.

Let me say it is a great honour for me to stand this morning to speak on this bill in support of the member for Eglinton-Lawrence, Mr Colle. I think he is

absolutely right that the Civic Holiday weekend in August should be a statutory holiday. It should contain many of the provisions and many of the items that the honourable member from Kenora-Rainy

River just mentioned.

I was sitting here and was looking over to Mr Colle, and I saw Mr Colle shaking his head as words were expressed about making it a full statutory holiday for all

Ontarians, making it a chance for all Ontarians to take

part in the culture, the heritage, the natural beauty of our province. There are opportunities, and I think this bill will give the

Legislature and those who work here the opportunity of pursuing chances to provide for those who want to get out to celebrate.

I want to say too that I will be sharing my time with the member from Etobicoke Centre, my seatmate, and I know she will bring a wonderful perspective to this

debate.

I spent many, many years in the riding of Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh and in particular my community of South Stormont, formerly the township of Cornwall,

working in history and heritage, to the point that this year I had the opportunity of introducing my own bill for another statutory holiday called Heritage Day. I continue to support that. But as a

former president of three historical societies in my area, I would promote and hold on a pedestal any opportunities we have in this province of promoting what we have: our natural beauty, our built

heritage, our cultural heritage.

I think that's exactly what the member from Eglinton-Lawrence has done here today. He has presented us with the opportunity of declaring that this day in August

will be Ontario Day. It will be a statutory holiday, with all the rights and privileges for all Ontarians, and it will also be a chance to get out and celebrate. We had a wonderful ride just a few

moments ago by the honourable member of what to see around this province: the beauty, the heritage and whatnot. I've tried to do that in eastern Ontario since I arrived here in the House and in my

work previous to arriving here, to let people know that Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh and the great Glengarry county have much to offer along the line of tourist attractions, historical sites --

the most historic site in Ontario, in my opinion, the inn built by the first Premier of this province at St Andrews West, and also his burial site within close proximity to that first inn he built

in our municipality in 1865.

It's an opportunity to give people a chance to get out there to learn about what Ontario has to offer, to first of all explore and then to move around to places

such as Pancake Bay Provincial Park. Certainly I have no idea where Pancake Bay Provincial Park is, nor does the honourable member from Eglinton-Lawrence. But when you look at this map and see this

beautiful lake -- the word "Ontario" celebrates water. When you take a look at the word "Ontario," from the Iroquois words -- I discovered there were three words: "kanadario," meaning sparkling or

beautiful water, "onitariio," meaning beautiful lake, and "skanadario," meaning very pretty lake. But they all refer back to water. When you look at a midsummer holiday, what, on a hot summer day,

attracts people? A beautiful lake, a beautiful river. Ontario is surrounded by water. When you take a trip around Ontario, down the St Lawrence River, up the Ottawa River, around to James Bay and

the basins into James Bay, over to Rainy River, Lake of the Woods, down to Superior, through the Great Lakes back to the St Lawrence, the province is totally surrounded by those beautiful lakes and

rivers.

This is what was celebrated by our First Nations community, the opportunity to have a word that relates back to what they saw as beauty in our province, and this

is what we want to do for Ontarians. First of all, we want to create a holiday that is going to be a brand, with that wonderful word "Ontario," and is going to be an opportunity for every one of

us, no matter what walk of life, to take that day off, supported by the rights and privileges of a statutory holiday.

All our communities have much to celebrate. I had some notes here that in 1869, Toronto city council originated a midsummer holiday for a day of recreation. This

is what we want. This is exactly what we wish to celebrate with this holiday.

So it's wonderful to have had words here in the House today from the opposition parties saying they will support it but wish us to take a broader look at what we

can put into this day, what we can celebrate, what we can provide in opportunities for people. I, too, wish the same thing. I wish the people the opportunity of going out and celebrating beside our

lakes and rivers, beside those tourist attractions that have been built on water, coming down to Upper Canada Village and walking through that village and touring those mills powered by water,

coming into the city of Toronto and going to Black Creek Pioneer Village, where I've had the opportunity of taking many, many students to visit in my teaching career, to see turbines driven by

water and celebrating culture and history and heritage. That's what we want.

I'm delighted today and very pleased that I've had the opportunity to rise and speak on this bill. Some may say it's not the most important bill in the province.

Maybe not. But it's going to be important for all Ontarians as we celebrate our wonderful and diverse culture.

Mr Dunlop: I want to begin by thanking the member, Mr Colle, for providing us with these maps. I understand they're now three bucks apiece. I

don't know where you got 100 of them, but I'd like to get 100 too, if anybody knows where you get them. They're great maps.

I've got to say up front to Mr Colle that the intent of your bill is great. Anything we can do -- we've heard every speaker so far talk about our wonderful

province, what a beautiful and wonderful province we have. My friend from Parry Sound-Muskoka and I have this debate about who has the best riding, the nicest riding. Of course the people from

Muskoka always think his, and I think mine. We are very proud of our province, and we're proud of the fact that it's so diverse.

I have to tell a little story. The Severn River is in my riding; it's all part of the Trent-Severn system. The part that goes through my riding from Orillia to

Georgian Bay is probably the most beautiful part of the Trent-Severn. It butts up against Mr Miller's riding as well. People from all over the world, actually, boat there. It's interesting, because

a couple of years ago, when Jerry Ouellette, the member from Oshawa, was the Minister of Natural Resources, he asked me one time if I would like to do a trip to what he called Fort Severn. I called

his office back and said, "It's not really important to me, but I think he's referring to Port Severn." Port Severn is five minutes from my house, and I know Ms Cansfield and her husband will very

shortly be vacationing up there for a weekend.

Hon David Caplan (Minister of Public Infrastructure Renewal): At your house?

Mr Dunlop: No, at Port Severn. Ms Cansfield and her husband and some friends are going to Port Severn, to a beautiful place called the Inn at

Christie's Mill, which is actually in Mr Miller's riding, right at the borderline.

But the bottom line was that Mr Ouellette called back and said, "No, no. We mean Fort Severn. Get your map out." Well, there is a Fort Severn, and you find it in

either Mr Hampton's riding or Mr Bisson's riding, I think, but it's way, way, way up there. It takes forever to get to Fort Severn. There is a Severn River Provincial Park, I believe, in Mr

Hampton's riding as well.

That just shows you -- I guess many of us in this House have had the opportunity to travel to the north on committee hearings. Those are really the only

opportunities I have had to get to the north. I've been to the Soo and North Bay and Sudbury and those kinds of places. But if you're from the far north, North Bay is considered southern Ontario.

We consider it northern Ontario, but people in the north call it southern Ontario. It's just an amazing province, and I think we should all promote it to our friends and family and people who are

from out of the country.

However, I know this is not a powerful bill and I think it's a good-intent bill, but I won't support it for a couple of reasons. One, I like the name Simcoe Day.

Being from Simcoe county, being a former warden of the county of Simcoe and spending my whole life in Simcoe county, we're very proud of that day, very proud of the fact that Sir John Graves Simcoe

was the founding Lieutenant General in our province's history. Up through Simcoe county and in the town of Simcoe, which is in the member for Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant's riding, he has an incredible

history. It's amazing, when you talk to historians, how important they believe that is. That's not to take away from the fact that other communities -- I heard someone talk about Bytown and the

other folks who have been famous throughout Ontario in different parts of the province. I would like to keep that open.

But primarily why I can't support it -- this is to Mr Colle -- is because it's my understanding that currently it's not a statutory holiday. In the past, I was a

small business person -- I don't do much business today -- and I have a number of colleagues. During the years I spent in business, it's just one more added cost to operating a business. A lot of

people already pay for the day. People will pay for what we call a civic holiday or Simcoe Day, but for a lot of people in small business, that's one more cost added to the cost of operating a

business. I can't support anything that will add additional costs or taxes to our small business operators in the province.

In a lot of cases, weekends during June, July, August and September are very important for our small business operators right across the province, primarily in

central Ontario. In Haliburton and Muskoka, Georgian Bay township, all through Simcoe county, these are very important weekends. Those are their bread-and-butter weekends of the year. This coming

Friday night I'm going to be out with friends I haven't seen in almost nine months, Ron and Cindee Breckbill, the owners of Severn Lodge up in Gloucester Pool. These people work seven days a week,

14 or 15 hours a day, during the summer months, and they don't need anything that would add expense to their businesses.

I can tell you that a lot of the businesses in our part of the province, particularly in the tourism industry, have no money flowing from Thanksgiving weekend to

right around May 24. They have to make their money when times are good. I can't support anything that would add expense to that.

However, that being said, the concept is good, other than the fact -- we got talking about the Americans. I know this government is on a path of what I call

the Americanization of Ontario politics; it started last year or a couple of years back with Greg Sorbara's bill where he talked about four-year terms. Well, we've got that now. The Premier is

committed to having four-year terms, at least while he's Premier. When John Tory becomes Premier, I don't know if he'll stick to the four-year terms or not. I consider that the Americanization of

politics here in Ontario.

This is democratic renewal day. I'm amazed this has actually come up today. I know that the pit bull terrier Attorney General and democratic renewal minister

is out there doing an announcement just this morning on democratic renewal. I'm very, very concerned about where this government is taking the province with the legislation they intend to introduce

and what it means for the future of Ontario.

I'm going to say this on the record right now: I think Ontario, this wonderful province, has been served well by the parliamentary system we have today, and

that's the British parliamentary system under the current rules, where the Premier in fact does call the election, where there is some questioning around the date of the election. Before we see any

kind of democratic renewal in this province, I would like to see the lead be taken from the federal government. The system we have in Ontario has served Ontarians well. It's been a very, very

stable system. When we start tinkering with things like the catchy term "democratic renewal," we have to be very careful what path we go down.

With that, I'm winding down. Again, I applaud the member for bringing it forward. The intent of the bill is good, but in my own personal opinion, I can't

support it because of the impact it may have on the small business operators of our province.

I appreciate this opportunity to speak today.

Mr Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay): I just want to say at the outset that I have no problem supporting this particular initiative. Quite

frankly, most people in a unionized environment get the bank holiday or the Civic Holiday, as it's called, as a statutory holiday in their collective agreement. It just makes ultimate sense to me

that all workers in the province get the same opportunity as workers who happen to be lucky enough to have a union and have that in their collective agreement.

But this gives us an opportunity to have a bit of a discussion about the overall issue of how we remunerate workers when it comes to time off, pensions and all

that kind of stuff. I've got to say, Canada and the United States are probably some of the worst, least progressive jurisdictions when it comes to how we deal with the whole issue of time off. Look

at Europe, for example. In France and Italy, and even in England, which tends to be pretty conservative, Germany, certainly the Scandinavian countries, all the major industrial powers within

Europe, if you take a look at their holiday system, they start off with four weeks for the first year of service. Here we are today in Ontario debating a bill that possibly will give non-unionized

workers one day off, and we're worried about how it's going to kill business? Come on. Give me a break. The reality is that the largest economic engines in Europe come at this from a totally

different perspective. They say, listen, it's to the advantage of the employer, the employee and society if we give people a reasonable amount of time off, a good chunk of time off every year so

they can go out and recharge their batteries and come back to work more refreshed and able to do their jobs.

If you talk to industry -- I told a story one time here in the Legislature that I thought it was kind of interesting. Some years ago, Trelleborg, a Finnish

company, bought out what then was Kidd Creek Mines up in Timmins, and when we were having a discussion with the head of Trelleborg out of Finland, who had come to Timmins to meet with Warren

Holmes, then the general manager and vice-president, I guess, of Kidd Creek, he couldn't believe how little holiday time workers were given. He just couldn't understand why management had not done

something about making the benefit package more attractive to employees when it came to the issue of time off. It was really interesting to watch, because this guy was going, like, "Why wouldn't

you do this? This makes absolutely no sense. Where I come from, this is just the norm." I think it's high time in this province and in this country that we have a discussion about how we deal with

this in a statutory way, not that people go off and negotiate these things individually, and how we deal with this in a more progressive way.

For example, there are a number of things I would like to be able to talk about outside of this particular debate at one point if we're able to get into

another debate. One is, let's look at statutory holidays that are more in sync with what we're seeing in Europe. It has been working there for many, many years. It's been very well received by both

the employer community and certainly the employees. It has also done another thing: It has actually developed a very strong tourism industry in Europe by Europeans themselves travelling within the

European continent. If you take a look at France, for example, for the month of July or the month of June -- I forget which; I think it's July -- basically most of the country is out on holidays,

and they're out holidaying somewhere in Europe.

Mr Colle: It's August, isn't it?

Mr Bisson: Is it August? I can't remember. I've been to Europe a number of times; I just don't remember which one it was. Anyway, the point is

that people are out holidaying, which means they save up some dollars and they go travel somewhere, to some destination within Europe of interest to them. They bring their families and spend some

money. It creates jobs in the tourism industry. It's not a bad thing, and I think here in Ontario we should be looking at how we are able within our own Ontario economy to encourage people to take

holidays within Ontario.

One of the ways you do that is by encouraging people to take holidays, and one of the ways you can obviously do that is by changing the Employment Standards

Act to provide for more holidays.

The other issue I think we need to get our heads around is pensions. I realize this is not holidays, but I've got to say, aside from members' pensions -- let's

not go there. We know we have no pensions, and what a stupid thing Mike Harris did, but that's another story. The issue is that we should be encouraging a debate in this House about how we're able

to work toward a defined pension program for all workers in the province. It only makes ultimate sense.

As we get older in our workplaces, especially if you work in a physically hard job, where you're challenged to do physical work -- we should be trying to

encourage employers, by way of legislation, to put in place defined benefit programs that basically say that at age 55 or age 57 a person is able to retire with an adequate amount of income, so

that they can get away from that job that they may not feel like doing any more -- or the employer wants to bring somebody new in.

You know, you can socialize the cost of that over a period of 30 years. It's not all that difficult to do. We may not be able to deal with it adequately for a

person like me who's 47 years old. But certainly for those who are 20 or 30 years old in the workforce now, and for those coming in future years, you're able to develop, over a relatively short

amount of time, a good pension system that would allow people to retire at a reasonable age.

I think that's something we should be striving for. I think the combination of giving people an ability to take a sufficient number of holidays so that they're

able to rejuvenate themselves and go back to their employer and be more productive employees, as well as the offset benefit of allowing people to travel and support the tourism industry -- then,

top that all off by saying, "Let's find a way to get people to retire earlier, so that they're able to go out there and enjoy the latter part of their years" -- a good 20 years after age 57, to

travel and do the things that we want to do and be productive in our society in different ways -- maybe working part-time or volunteering in our communities to do whatever.

I've got 20 seconds, and I've got to say this: I would also encourage all members of the assembly to look at the issue of pensions for members. I want to put

it categorically on the record. I think it's nuts that members don't have pensions. Every worker in this province should be entitled to a pension. I don't understand why we take the position that

we, because we're legislators, shouldn't have some form of defined benefit program when it comes to pensions. I would argue, put us into the OPS pension plan, along with every other provincial

employee.

Interjections.

Mrs Donna H. Cansfield (Etobicoke Centre): I'm pleased to be able to stand at this time, although maybe I should sit down until they finish

speaking.

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker: Order.

Mrs Cansfield: Thank you very much. I'm pleased to be able to stand in support of the motion that's been put forward by my colleague from

Eglinton-Lawrence.

I recently had an opportunity to meet with a friend who, when he first came a couple of years ago to Ontario, got out a map, one similar to the one that was

given out this morning, and looked at it and said, "Oh, my heavens. I didn't realize Ontario was so big that it had to be on both sides." Actually, that's part of what we should think about:

Ontario is the size of western Europe. It's that large, it's that diverse and it's that extraordinary.

If you've ever seen the picture North of Superior, you have an idea of the extraordinary majesty of the north, the fact that they have clean air and blue

skies, the fact that you can actually hear birds and see birds that you can't see in other parts of the world. If you look to Sault Ste Marie, you'd find that there's a desert in the Sault. If you

were to go to Tobermory, you'd find that there's a wind turbine. If you look to the hills and the valleys that are in southern Ontario, you would find our farms, the places where we can grow

peaches and grapes because our weather is so mild. And then you can go to Kingston and through the Great Lakes, and you can look at Upper and Lower Canada and the history and tradition. That's sort

of the physical layout of what we are.

In addition to that, we have a provincial park that's actually larger than a number of countries in the world. It's phenomenal. It's a place that everybody

should visit, and you need the opportunity to do that.

Today, most families work 16 hours a day, and many more. They spend less and less time together as families. They find that their weekends are stretched and

that there isn't the quality time that we used to spend together as a family. Some people say, "Well, it's not quantity, it's quality." I think it's a little bit of both. In order to appreciate

your family, you need to spend some time with them. I think that's particularly so for those folks who live on modest incomes and often have two jobs, not one. And when we look at the opportunity

to celebrate not only what we have in this province, its diversity, and at the same time provide an opportunity for those families to do it together, I can't think of a better way, again, to

support something that's just as important as a statutory holiday for Ontarians. That's why it should be called Ontario Day.

We seem to sometimes forget about the extraordinary diversity that we have in Ontario. I'll just give you a little example around Toronto itself. We have, in

Toronto, people from virtually every country in the world but two: Antarctica and Greenland. Those children are in our schools. We have over 160 languages and dialects. Just think of the richness

of that culture and the diversity of those people as they spread across Ontario. Add that to our aboriginal and our other history and heritages and we have something really worthwhile to celebrate.

And how do we build on those celebrations? By recognizing that diversity, both geographically within the province itself and in terms of its people and history.

I recently had the pleasure of being in China, where I looked at 6,000-year-old history. I was blown away by how the people themselves embrace that history. I

think that we have an obligation to do exactly the same thing here with our very modest, few-hundred-year-old history. We have a responsibility to our children and to ourselves to know where we

came from, to understand it in order to move on and make it better. And what a better way to do that than allow people the opportunity to have a day in which they can actually recognize that

Ontario does have a history and therefore has a past, and with a past, obviously has a future.

I think it's a real opportunity, as I said before, for families to work together on one day -- a day of rest, if you like -- when they can get out and discover

Ontario. Years ago we used to have that song -- someone alluded to it earlier: Ontari-ari-o; Yours to Discover. But you've got to give people some time to do it, whether they want to go to the zoo

one day, to the north or whether they simply want to go for a walk in a park like High Park. Or, if they have the ability, to get in a car and travel with their children to learn something about

Sainte-Marie among the Hurons. There are so many places.

I have the pleasure this weekend to go with friends to the Inn at Christie's Mill, and that's thanks to the charity auction that's held every year by the press

gallery. This year, it's December 1. What the members have done, historically, is they've gone to their constituency base and they have given us an opportunity to purchase, on behalf of charity, a

place that we might be able to go and see. I had never been to Christie's Mill. I had never been to Port Severn. I wanted to go and discover it, and I had that opportunity to do it. Not everybody

has that same opportunity, and what my colleague's motion will do is provide that opportunity for people to get out and have a chance to discover what Ontario is all about -- to enjoy its richness,

to enjoy its people, and to celebrate it.

We often talk about the folks in the south. They wave their flags and they're so excited about who they are, what they are and where they came from. We hear

that about Canadians. We're proud to be Canadians, but we're bloody proud as well to be Ontarians. I'd like to think so. That's also a part of our psyche and who we are, what we want to be, where

we want to go and how we want to teach our children. These are the things you do by encouraging that through leadership.

This isn't a trivial bill or motion. It's a very significant one because it says that we celebrate who we are, we celebrate where we want to go, we want to

teach our children about our heritage, and we want to give people the opportunity to enjoy that heritage and to do it in such a way that they're not penalized. It won't hurt small business because

certainly in my area, small businesses stay open because they are a tourist area. That's just another opportunity, actually, for them to make more money, because more people come up and enjoy that

part of Ontario.

The Deputy Speaker: Mr Colle, the member for Etobicoke-Lawrence, you have two minutes to reply.

Mr Colle: Eglinton-Lawrence.

The Deputy Speaker: Eglinton-Lawrence. Thank you.

Mr Colle: I want to thank everybody who participated in the debate. I think it's an important debate because, essentially, as Ontarians, if we

don't promote ourselves, if we don't celebrate this great province, who will? If we, as adults and as legislators, don't stand up and celebrate Ontario, who will?

I find it strange, some comments about, "Well, this is not good for small business." Give your head a shake. If you tell that to the Americans -- holidays

create all kinds of economic activity. We have to get off our seats and start to promote this province, to promote tourism, because it creates jobs and economic opportunity. We are just too

passive. We've got a great product here -- it's called Ontario -- and we've got to start to market it and celebrate it. We can't expect someone else to do it for us. That's what we're doing right

now. We're sort of sitting back and saying, "Oh, someone will market Ontario."

Simcoe Day isn't going to cut it. We need to give it some profile, some excitement, and there's nothing to preclude Simcoe Day from continuing, but we have to

go beyond this passive, sit-back attitude. We have an economic imperative here, a cultural imperative and an educational imperative to do something where our young people will be proud of this

province. They'll know where Pancake Bay Provincial Park is. Do the kids out there know where Pancake Bay Provincial Park is? They don't, because we don't.

You know where it is? Looking at the map, it's just north of Sault Ste Marie in the eastern shore of Lake Superior and, sadly, it's off where the Edmund

Fitzgerald sank. You know the great Ontario folk singer, Gordon Lightfoot, one of the greatest singers in the world? We should be celebrating Gordon Lightfoot, celebrating Pancake Bay Provincial

Park. Let's not sit back and whine about it; let's do something for Ontario.

MUNICIPAL AMENDMENT ACT

(HOSPICES EXEMPTION), 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR LES MUNICIPALITÉS

(EXONÉRATION ACCORDÉE

AUX HOSPICES)

Mr Flynn moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill 134,

An Act to amend the Municipal Act, 2001 / Projet de loi 134, Loi visant à modifier la Loi de 2001 sur les municipalités.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Bruce Crozier): Mr Flynn has moved ballot item number 40, pursuant to standing order 96. Mr Flynn, you have up to 10

minutes.

Mr Kevin Daniel Flynn (Oakville): It certainly is a pleasure to be here today, and I want to thank you for the opportunity to debate this

bill, the Municipal Amendment Act (Hospices Exemption), 2004.

Before I start, I have the pleasure of introducing to the House Ms Janet Napper, the executive director of the Hospice Association of Ontario, who is with us

in the House today in the members' gallery. Janet, welcome. I'd like to thank Janet for all her support in the preparation of this bill, as well as my own staff.

I'd also like to pay special thanks to a woman by the name of Margaret Anderson. She's the director and founder of Ian Anderson House, which is in my riding of

Oakville. Ian Anderson House is a hospice that has been in existence for some time and has done a tremendous job in Oakville and the surrounding area.

The reason that I'm introducing this bill is through my involvement with Ian Anderson House. Ian Anderson House, as I said, is a hospice. It was started by

Margaret Anderson in memory of her late spouse, Ian Anderson. Ian Anderson was diagnosed with cancer in 1987, and he died in their home, as he wished, in 1990.

Ian Anderson House is funded entirely with private monies and the work of Margaret and a group of volunteers. It opened seven years ago, on November 15, 1997,

and has since provided palliative care without charge for approximately 600 families on its almost two-acre property. The house receives no provincial funding, but runs as a non-profit charitable

organization and has provided a much-needed alternative for families who don't want to die in a hospital and aren't able to get the support they need in their own homes.

The gardens of Ian Anderson House, if you ever have the opportunity to pay a visit, have all been funded by volunteer efforts -- the private sector has pitched

in -- companies, and local government. One day, we had all the firefighters out there doing some work on the gardens. So it's a facility that the community has really taken to its heart.

Part of the hospice mandate is to offer environments such as these gardens, and they provide the sort of settings for patients and their families that are

spiritually nurturing, physically comfortable and aesthetically pleasing. It's in the spaces in which people spend the final phase of their lives that they need to be treated with the utmost

care.

The Ian Anderson House does not charge any fee for residency inside the hospice. If you're ill, if you're in the final days of your life and you need a place

to go, you don't want to die in hospital and you can't be cared for at home, the Ian Anderson House will take you in if they have a space. It's all run entirely by community fundraising. It doesn't

matter how rich you are or how poor you are; if there's a spot available, the Ian Anderson House lets you in. They have corporate sponsorship and the services of a tremendous volunteer board.

They've got a resource centre in the building that supports members of the community who want to care for dying loved ones in their own homes.

For the Ian Anderson House, what we were able to do when I was a locally elected official is go through a process whereby the property taxes were waived by the

region of Halton. What that means in my own community is that over $7,000 that used to be paid to the municipality can now be used by the Ian Anderson House to provide the services that it was

truly set up to provide.

It's important to know that we provide this exemption for a number of other facilities and institutions within the province of Ontario. Ones that come to mind

specifically are churches, Legions, the Boy Scouts, bridges, minerals. We exempt a number of organizations. What I'm asking for with this bill is that municipalities be granted the option to

provide a tax exemption for a hospice that exists within their own borders.

I've been able to set up a pretty good arrangement for the Ian Anderson House in the region of Halton, and I think that should be extended to the rest of the

province. The only downside to the current arrangement that Ian Anderson House has is that they have to raise the funds in the first place to pay the taxes so that they can get a grant from the

municipality to pay them back. With such a hard time fundraising these days for any non-profit organization, it seems to me it would be better -- and I know in my own community there is sympathy,

with support from the town of Oakville and the region of Halton, for providing this exemption.

For those members of the House who are from the GTA, there's also another centre that's trying to be formed in Toronto. It's called the Philip Aziz Centre.

Unfortunately, in our modern society, it's not just adults who get HIV/AIDS; it impacts children as well. What this group of people are trying to do is to, in a hospice setting, provide the level

of care that is necessary for children who have been infected with HIV/AIDS.

The bill is important not only in the financial relief it provides; it would also encourage the building of other hospices. In our province and around the

world, we're coming to realize that how we treat the dying in our communities speaks to who we are as a society. We seem to have done a very good job in how we treat people who are entering their

life or entering this world. I think we've been a little reticent in the way we treat people whose time it is to leave this world. This bill reflects my support for all of the good work being done

in the palliative and hospice care movement throughout the province and the difference these institutions make in providing dignity and compassion to people in the last days of their lives. Many

people end up in hospital who would really like to be at home during their final days, but they simply don't have the resources at home.

A recent Ipsos-Reid poll found that over 90% of people indicated they would prefer to die with dignity within their own home. Sadly, under current conditions,

these people do not have the resources and over 75% of them end up dying in a hospital, which is not the place they want to die.

The Hospice Association of Ontario has grown tremendously. It began with eight members in 1989. Within the first 10 years, the association's membership grew by

almost 1,000%, from eight to more than 150 hospices and allied members. It's the largest volunteer hospice organization in Canada. Its members have become the largest direct service providers

within Ontario's voluntary health care sector. Today, in more than 400 communities throughout Ontario -- so it affects each and every one of us in this House -- over 13,000 volunteers dedicate

630,000 hours of volunteer work to Hospice Association of Ontario member hospices. In order for these hospices to provide a full range of physical, emotional and spiritual care, they rely on

contributions from the community. It is my opinion that this bill would receive widespread support from both municipalities and citizens of the municipalities. It's another way to assist the

hospice organization in providing the type of care it does.

Now a little bit of history. The word "hospice" stems from the Latin word "hospitium," which used to mean guest house. Originally, "hospice" was used to

describe a place of shelter for those who were sick or weary, returning from a pilgrimage. During the 1960s, a British physician, Dr Cicely Saunders, began the modern hospice movement with the

establishment of St Christopher's Hospice near London. The first US hospice was established in New Haven, Connecticut, in 1974. The first one we had in Canada was established in 1975 in Winnipeg,

and also at the Royal Victoria Hospital in Montreal. So hospice is not a place; it is, rather, a philosophy. The focus of hospice care is on caring, not curing, and on life, not death. For the

purposes of the bill, hospices are free-standing community facilities that provide a home-like alternative to institutional care for those who require it.

Other government initiatives include the following: The Ministry of Health has placed an emphasis on patient community care; local health integration networks

are enshrining principles of patient choice -- they are people-centred; Minister Smitherman has spoken at great length about the importance of hospices; and Donna Cansfield, the member for

Etobicoke Centre, has also called for a comprehensive palliative care strategy.

We will be able to save tremendous resources by approving this bill. I would urge all members to support it. In doing so, they will be supporting end-of-life

care in their very own communities.

The Deputy Speaker: Further debate?

Mr Norm Miller (Parry Sound-Muskoka): It is my pleasure to speak this morning at private members' business on Bill 134,

An Act to amend the

Municipal Act, 2001, which has been put forward by the member for Oakville. Basically, what this act does is that a municipality may, by bylaw, exempt from taxation for municipal and school

purposes real property owned, used and occupied by an independently managed non-profit hospice engaged in the provision of end-of-life care.

I do believe the hospice sector needs support. Our party has always been a strong proponent of using tax cuts to stimulate the economy and support those in

need. As such, I'm very happy to support this, although I believe it needs feedback from municipalities, which are being asked to bear the brunt of the tax cut.

In my riding of Parry Sound-Muskoka, there are many organizations involved in palliative care and hospice support. They're doing a great job -- with the

support of a lot of volunteers, I might add.

In the Almaguin area, there's the Almaguin palliative care team -- Mary Manuell is the program administrator of that -- which covers Novar, Emsdale, Kearney,

Sprucedale, Katrine, Burk's Falls, Sundridge, South River, Sand Lake and Ahmic Harbour. They provide some very important services: emotional support, personal care, respite care, support to

children, alternative therapies, spiritual support, home care, volunteer care teams, bereavement support for individuals and groups, anticipatory grief, coordination of services, and general

domestic support. That's in the Almaguin area.

In West Parry Sound, it's run through West Parry Sound Health Centre -- Norm Maciver, the CEO, is the contact -- at 10 James St. Their catchment area goes from

the French River in the north to Musquash River in the south, east to Magnetawan, and west to the Georgian Bay archipelago.

Then down in South Muskoka we have Hospice Muskoka. Sandra Winspear is the program coordinator. It's run out of Bracebridge Pines Long-Term Care, and it covers

the South Muskoka region.

In the Huntsville area, we have Hospice Huntsville -- Ms Cindy Susut is the volunteer coordinator -- based at 100 Frank Miller Drive in Huntsville. It covers

the area from Huntsville south to Port Sydney, north to Melissa, west to Rosseau, and east to Baysville, Dorset and Dwight. So we do have some significant coverage of my riding.

I've had the privilege of attending a number of hospice events in the last year. I was at the Caregivers Voice 10th anniversary at Rogers Cove in Huntsville,

where the founder of that organization, Geila Bar-David, participated, and one of the speakers at that event, in talking about the importance of caregivers, used this quote, which I thought was

very significant: "There are only four kinds of people in this world: Those who have been caregivers, those who currently are caregivers, those who will be caregivers and those who will need

caregivers." That pretty much covers all of us, and that was actually from Rosalynn Carter, from the spring of 1995.

Also, I had the privilege of attending a fundraising event for Hospice Muskoka, a gala event in Port Carling on June 25 of this year. It was called Go Mad With

Plaid. It was organized by Frances Weir and Muriel Leslie. It was the initial event to raise money for a regional residence hospice. It's going to be the first one in the whole Parry Sound-Muskoka

area, and this was the first event fundraising for it. It was a very well-run event, and a lot of fun, I might add. I participated; I wore my father's Royal Stuart tartan, hoping I might win the

contest for best costume. Unfortunately, my mother beat me out. She had a little more plaid on her and was the grand winner as the best-dressed person at this event. But it was certainly a

successful event.

I also participated recently in the opening of a special room at the South Muskoka Memorial Hospital that is being set aside for palliative care. One of the

key people involved with that is Owen Mellow, from Bracebridge. He's an example of the fine volunteers who are really the backbone of many hospice organizations. In fact, across Ontario there are

13,300 volunteers who dedicated 630,000 hours of service in the province in the last year. There's no doubt that there is a growing need for more and more hospice and palliative care support.

I would have to ask why the provincial government isn't supporting this directly with funding, or the federal government. The weight is being put on municipal

government. That's why I think municipal input is required. I can't help but say I think there's an imbalance between the taxes collected and the services that are offered between the three levels

of government -- federal, provincial and municipal -- especially when we see this week that there was a $9-billion surplus at the federal level. So I think it's very important that we get some

input from municipalities, because they're being asked to basically -- I mean, the $7,000 the member from Oakville was talking about that would benefit his local hospice. Unfortunately, it's the

municipal government that would be giving up that tax revenue. So that's a question that needs to be addressed, and I think that, as usual, we should be bringing the federal government to look at

this.

There's no doubt that there is a need for palliative care services. Some 94% of Canadians feel they cannot adequately care for a dying loved one without

outside support, and it's hospice palliative care that provides that essential support. It's especially true for Ontarians living in remote and rural areas. When you get into the north -- I'm the

northern critic -- it becomes more and more difficult to access these needed services. I outlined some of the organizations that cover Parry Sound-Muskoka, and I think I'm very fortunate to have

these organizations within the riding of Parry Sound-Muskoka. But more importantly, I and the people of Parry Sound-Muskoka are so lucky to have dedicated volunteers, like Owen Mellow and many

others like him, who put in those 13,300 volunteer hours throughout the year.

So I will be supporting this. But I think a key thing is that there especially needs to be municipal input, and we should be trying to get other levels of

government to support this.

Mr Rosario Marchese (Trinity-Spadina): I'll be sharing my time today with the member from Toronto-Danforth.

I want to say that I will be supporting this bill by the member from Oakville. I think it is a good bill to allow the municipalities to exempt non-profit

hospices from taxation, because they do good work with so little money. It's important work that they do, and every spare dollar they can find is good for the services they provide. The member from

Parry Sound mentioned a whole long list of things that hospices do, from bereavement support to personal care to respite care, home care, palliative care -- the list is endless. These are services

that are desperately required and that desperately need provincial and federal support in order to allow individuals to be taken care of in their homes and/or in their communities. But so little

comes by way of provincial and federal dollars that it puts tremendous stress on families and hospices to do the work they are doing.

While this bill is a laudable one, and while the province may pass such a bill allowing municipalities to exempt non-profit hospices from paying taxes, the

province gets away with having to worry about how the city then does without the money that normally they would be getting from such a service. I'm convinced that every municipality would love to

exempt non-profit hospices from taxation. I'm convinced that they do. But the problem is, they argue, "If we do this for one service, who will come next, and how will we deal with the shortfall of

municipal dollars that we desperately need to provide the services?" This is the balancing act that we have to worry about.

Understand this: The province goes, as your Premier just did a couple of days ago, saying, "We provide 44% of provincial dollars to federal coffers, and we

don't get the same level of money coming back to the province of Ontario." They're right, as we were right when we were in power, when we said, "We're contributing so much and getting so little

from the federal government." Do you know what the cities are saying? The same thing. The city of Toronto says, "We pay 44% of our taxes in Ontario, and we don't get a commensurate share of the

dollars we put in." Do you know what? They're right too. So as McGuinty goes to complain to the federal Liberals that we're not getting our fair share, the cities are saying, "We're not getting a

fair share from McGuinty," and they're right.

Although you have introduced the gas tax dollars that make an important contribution, the city is saying, "It barely balances off the problems we had last

year." And the worries are going to continue for a long, long time, because downloading on the city of Toronto and many other cities has gone on for so long that many of them are literally broke

and they need money. A city ought not to be coming, begging and pleading, to the provincial government to give them the money they desperately need to provide the programs they are providing. They

ought not to, but they are, because we have no adequate mechanism to guarantee that cities get the money they need.

In some countries in Europe, there is a proportionate amount of dollars they get from the federal government, where they have a centralized system, based on

whatever revenues the federal government has. It's 5% or 10% or 15% -- whatever that figure is -- but it's always consistent. If that were so, cities would never have to come begging the provincial

government or the federal government for the money they ought to be getting. That's not the case in Canada and in Ontario. Every year you have cities worried about whether or not they have enough

money to provide the services they should be providing.

So my point is, this is a good measure. It's an important bill that recognizes that non-profit hospices provide incredibly good work for the little money

they're getting. But the worry you and I have on both sides is, how are we going to guarantee that cities get the money they need to provide the services they provide, and when they exempt one

group, how do they say no to exempting another group? While I agree this group should be exempted, money should come from the provincial government to the cities to make up for what we're doing.

That would be my position on this.

Mrs Linda Jeffrey (Brampton Centre): I am pleased to have the opportunity to stand in the House and support Bill 134, the Municipal Amendment

Act proposed by the member from Oakville.

Our government came to power with a commitment to strengthen local communities. Hospices have played an important role in our local communities, and this bill

is aimed at supporting the very important work these organizations do. As I understand it, this legislation will be similar to current enabling legislation that will give municipalities the ability

to exempt legion or other veterans' organizations, as well as the Boy Scouts and Girl Guides, from paying municipal property taxes, should a municipality so deem.

Ontario hospices are the largest direct service providers within the voluntary care sector. The Hospice Association of Ontario's member agencies have more than

12,000 volunteers, dedicating some 570,000 hours of service every year to more than 400 communities across Ontario. One of the hospices in my riding is the Tullamore Long Term Care Facility.

In my research on hospices, because I haven't had direct contact with them, I learned that the Hospice Association of Ontario created a charter after doing a

province-wide consultation for end-of-life care provided by the Hospice Association of Ontario. The charter states: "How we treat those who are dying in our community reflects who we are as a

society. All Ontarians have the right to die with dignity, to have access to physical, psychological, bereavement and spiritual care, and to be granted the respect consistent with other phases of

life."

Ontario's hospice palliative care community is committed to providing the best possible quality end-of-life care to Ontario residents and their families. Their

goal is to optimize the quality of life and to minimize the physical and emotional suffering associated with this phase of life.

Hospices endorse an integrated approach focused on the individual and their family and caregivers, accessible through hospice palliative care services in the

local community and tailored to individual needs. The Hospice Association of Ontario works to increase awareness and availability of quality and integrated end-of-life care. They collaborate with

government, social agencies and decision-makers to develop innovative, clinical, community and public policy strategies. Hospices speak with a unified and cohesive voice, share information and

resources, and work through a coordinated network of partners from the voluntary, public and professional sectors.

The field of palliative care is poised for growth, impacted by an aging population and by technology keeping people alive. It is a very important quality they

need to be doing, and they provide it with increased professionalism every year. As more long-term-care professionals work and educate consumers and families about what they do, there is a

recognition of the complexity of providing this sensitive service. Education and research are evolving in response to the pressures of dealing with palliative populations.

I forgot to say at the beginning, Mr Speaker, that I'll be sharing my time with the members from Etobicoke Centre and Scarborough Centre.

The Hospice Association of Ontario is the largest volunteer hospice palliative care organization, made up of 90 hospices and 60 allied associations. They have

13,300 hospice volunteers and dedicate over 600,000 hours of service, as I said, to more than 400 communities.

The emotional, psychological and spiritual support to people who are in the last phases of life are the most important thing we can possibly provide.

I support this legislation because I believe this bill complements our government's announcement of $73.2 million in July for end-of-life care, and will

support local, independent hospice palliative care in Ontario.

Ms Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): First of all, I would like to say that I am supporting this bill. I certainly want to underline,

though, the points my colleague Rosario Marchese made. Of course we're going to support this bill. Let me say that strongly. Clearly and obviously this is a good, positive move forward. But I

concur with my colleague Rosario Marchese, in that municipalities have become so dependent on two things now, and I've been making these points in the debates around the greenbelt. They desperately

need their municipal taxes and developers' fees to pay for their services. This happened, in large part, as a result of the downloading done by the previous government, and we need to start

rebalancing that.

I'm not going to go into the same detail as my colleague did about the kinds of things that need to be done to address that, but I think we would all agree

that every time we give an option, and this is a good option to give to municipalities, not taking on the hard responsibility here ourselves, the government not taking it on and saying, "You

shall," but leaving it up to the municipality to determine, is a problem for the municipalities. They're going to want to do this and there's going to be pressure on them to do it. But if they're

already struggling with keeping a balanced budget, as they are, and not raising property taxes too much, for every single good cause that comes before them, they're in a real quandary. That is

what's going to happen with this. I really hate to see our municipalities put in these positions where it becomes almost a moral situation. They can't say no, nor should they.

So I would agree with Mr Marchese that if we're allowing municipalities to do things like this, which I believe we should be, then we need to be looking at the

funding structures we have and changing them so that the municipalities, and I mean small and large, are not so entirely dependent just on municipal taxes and developers' fees.

I want to take this opportunity to highlight Casey House. You may all be familiar with Casey House. It was founded by June Callwood, who's just a wonderful

woman.

Mr John R. Baird (Nepean-Carleton): My friend.

Ms Churley: I think June Callwood is actually everybody's friend. She has no political axe to grind. For as long as I've known June Callwood,

her goal has been to do good for her community and for all the people. She has her particular causes, and she's been very successful. I knew June for many years, and when her young son, Casey, was

tragically killed in a motorcycle accident, and the devastation that caused our good friend June and her family, June then turned that tragedy, in some ways, into a very good cause. She named the

hospice she started, for people suffering and dying from HIV/AIDS, after her son, Casey.

It was a real privilege for me. I've toured Casey House on many occasions. I recently attended the 11th annual Art with Heart auction for Casey House hospice.

If you've never gone, I recommend you go because the art at these things is just incredible, with donations from some of the top North American artists and top artists here in Toronto. It's a real

opportunity to see that art, and if you can afford it -- some is higher-priced than others -- to buy really good art at reduced prices, given what's there, and to support this really great

cause.

June Callwood -- the founder, as you know -- started Casey House at a time when HIV/AIDS was devastating. Then, life was not being prolonged and, in fact,

enhanced. People can live, for a long time, relatively normal lives now with HIV, but at that time, we were seeing mostly young men in the prime of their lives dying with HIV.

I've had friends who've died, and I'm sure everybody in this Legislature has been touched by the devastation of AIDS at that time. It was killing, as I said,

many young men in their prime. There was little community support, and a huge stigma and discrimination attached to people with HIV and AIDS.

It was at that time when June Callwood said, "We've got to do something about this. A lot of these young men are dying alone with very little support from the

community, not being able to work." She just grabbed the bull by the horns and said, "I'm going to do this," and she did. It's just a wonderful example of a hospice that's working.

As we know, since that time, the population suffering from and living with AIDS has changed. There are far more women now, as well as homeless people, and a

bigger

section of the population. The waiting lists at times became very long, and the nurses there -- a wonderful staff who, over the years, have staffed Casey House -- along with many of the

families who do become involved, came up with the idea for home hospice so that people could have those kinds of supports in their own homes. Art with Heart -- and I'm really promoting this today,

because it's a good opportunity to raise money -- has raised money. I go often and bid often.

I do recommend that we do everything we can to support, besides this today, the hospices in our ridings and across the province, because we know, just like

Casey House, that home hospices and many other hospices do not get any government funding. They are run on private donations, and that's why this exemption today will be very, very important for

them.

Obviously municipalities are going to want to do that, and the hospices themselves are very, very much in favour. I've been told by the smaller and

medium-sized hospices who own their own offices and land that this is a saving of roughly $6,000 to $8,000. This may not be a whole lot in the grand scheme but, operating on a tight budget, it is

absolutely critical.

Fundraising has become more and more competitive these days -- there are lots and lots of good causes out there -- and this fundraising is often from the same

sources. To have to fundraise, though, to pay taxes is kind of a difficult feat, and it's not fair to be asking places like this to have to do that. So what this will do is make sure that the

fundraising they do, the funds they have, will go directly, flow directly into care for the patients who are dying, and their families.

What I would say in closing is that I can't imagine that there'll be one person in this Legislature today who will vote against this. I'm very pleased that

it's before us, and I commend the member for doing so. I do, however, say to be cautious in terms of how the municipalities are going to deal with this as we bring forward more and more good causes

that I agree should be exempted.

I know that in the really wonderful notes and backgrounder that Mr Flynn provided for members, and I thank him for that, because it was very good background

information, he lists some of the other charities and non-profits that are already exempted: Boy Scouts, Girl Guides, children's aid societies, large non-profit theatres, veterans' organizations,

houses of refuge, and there are more, I believe, and there should be more to come. But as we do this and as we bring under this umbrella these good causes that should not be paying property taxes,

we do have to look at the second piece of this and see how we can deal with the revenue that is being lost to the municipalities that count on their property taxes to get them through their budgets

every year and to be able to provide so many of the vital services that they are now asked to provide on top of what we normally saw as just municipal hard services. That is the one caution that I

would bring forward today.

Mr Baird: I'll just speak briefly to this bill. I want to congratulate the member for Oakville. This is an excellent initiative and one of the

more meaningful private members' bills that we've seen. I think there's this view that somehow everyone should get a grant, but the first thing we should do to organizations like hospices is, don't

tax them. It's an excellent initiative.

The member for Toronto-Danforth talked about Casey House and June Callwood and the excellent people who make that a reality. I know a number of individuals who

are on the board there and do a phenomenal job.

In Ottawa, we have the May Court hospice, which I think is an important community institution that provides palliative care to some really vulnerable people. I

visited it not two or three months ago, and the morning that I visited there were two people who had passed away in the evening, one only an hour before I arrived. To see the staff and volunteers

at that centre -- they do an outstanding job. I know they would benefit from the consideration that I believe the Ottawa city council would provide, should this bill pass. I would certainly be very

supportive of it.

There has been a bureaucratic problem that has happened with respect to the May Court hospice. Their funding has been cut off. They were funded by the

community care access centre, which was a rather innovative way to provide palliative care. That was cut off. Some members intervened and it's going to continue until the end of March. But they're

sitting with a rather uncertain future with respect to their provincial funding.

I know that, to be non-partisan, none of the members in Ottawa -- Conservative, Liberal, what have you -- would want to see that organization go without

funding, whether it's the member for Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh or any of the other Liberal members for Ottawa. I think this was an unintended consequence, but nonetheless is a meaningful

problem facing the volunteers who work at the May Court hospice. It has to be addressed. I would use this opportunity, once again -- we appreciated the extension until the end of the fiscal year,

but we've got to address that. It's too much to ask for the volunteers and staff to take their attention away from those people who are sick and in need of care, some of whom spend nine months at

May Court. Others will spend as little as 15 minutes when they arrive very late in their struggle with cancer or AIDS.

So I would just use this opportunity to encourage the minister and the government to do the right thing on this. I know they want to. I would just encourage

them to do it expeditiously so that they can put all of their love and care into dealing with the patients. I was tremendously impressed with the folks there. I look forward to hearing from the

members for Etobicoke Centre and Simcoe North. Both members care passionately about these issues.

Mrs Donna H. Cansfield (Etobicoke Centre): I'm pleased to rise in support of the member for Oakville's bill dealing with palliative care. One

of the things I'd like to mention is that palliative care isn't restricted to the elderly; it's across the whole sector in terms of age. In our communities, a lot of our folks who live there do not

have extended families, so often at the end of their life, be they in their 20s, 30s or as infants, they don't have somebody that they can go to and say, "Come and help me," other than their

community. That's one of the critical roles that a hospice plays: the community reaching out to people in need within the community, and that's one of the reasons why the member for Oakville's bill

is only one piece of that puzzle that will continue to be put together as the strategy is built over the next year -- an important and integral part. What it does, again, is recognize the

inequities around the province dealing with palliative care, end-of-life care.

The fact that you can have a member -- thank heavens that he's there -- who went out and supported a particular hospice and enabled them to get back their

taxes is phenomenal. Maybe we could duplicate him and send him around the province so he can do it for each. There's another member who says that, in fact, the community care access centre has

withdrawn funds, when in other cases they're supporting it. It that inequity that is occurring right now across the province in our palliative care, and that's why this type of bill will make a and

will make those changes happen.

One of the reasons that it's enabling as well -- that's the

part I like. It's time that municipalities sit down with their hospices and develop strategies for

their community to meet their communities' needs. A hospice cannot work in isolation from its municipality, nor should it work in isolation from its provincial government or, for that matter, in

isolation from its federal government. If you'd like to get down to the crass reason why, it's because the person requiring palliative care is a member of each of those governments in terms of

participation and voting as a constituent. So all levels have the responsibility to develop that comprehensive strategy for end-of-life care. Nobody is immune to that.

I recognize the challenges, but at the same time, there are opportunities. Currently a hospital bed costs anywhere from $1,000 to $1,200. Emergency wards are

lined up with people trying to get in, and yet we know that well-managed palliative pain care, for example, can withdraw the need for that person to go to an emergency service in a hospital and

thereby eliminate part of that lineup. But that pain care has to be managed, and managed well, and the place to do it is in a palliative care centre.

We know we can do it, and we know we can do it at about a third to two thirds of the cost, depending on the region. That's phenomenal. We also know that it's

not restricted in terms of geography, because palliative care centres are in 400 communities across this province. Think about that: 400 communities are served by 90 palliative care centres.

Obviously, the need is there; it has been identified. We have something that enables us to put another piece of that puzzle together on how we develop that strategy. We need to engage everybody in

that discussion, because you're right: As you download, where do costs come from in terms of trading off the cost for the property? But at the same time, we also know on the plus side that you're

going to reduce costs in your hospitals, either through the beds or through the emergency wards.

I go back and state again -- I don't know if you remember -- that there are actually hospitals in this province that charge you a surcharge if you do not die

in time, if you're a palliative care patient. I find that outrageous. It's just another reason why palliative care hospice centres must be an integral part of our health system in Ontario. It was

recognized federally through the Romanow report; our own Minister of Health, George Smitherman, has identified home care and palliative end-of-life care as an integral part of what he's talking

about; now we need to engage those municipalities in that same discussion, and we need to put that strategy together sooner rather than later. Although I indicated it is not restricted to the

elderly, there is no question that a proportionate number of people requiring that service are elderly, and a lot of them would like to die in their own homes. I would like to again support my

colleague and commend him for bringing this forward.

Mr Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North): I'm pleased to rise in support of this legislation. Again, I'm going to say what I've said before in this

House: Sometimes the private members' bills that come forward are, I think, more valuable to the citizens of the province than the government legislation, and this is a good example right here. The

short title is the Municipal Amendment Act (Hospices Exemption), 2004. The bill proposes to grant municipalities the capacity to exempt independently managed, not-for-profit hospices from property

taxes. I couldn't agree more with this, because I think that the hospices we have in our province do absolutely fantastic, valuable work, and again, it's all volunteer. That's what is so important

about it.

I would like to speak for a couple of minutes about the two hospices I have in my riding. First of all, Hospice Orillia -- and I have a little more detail on

it -- is run by executive director Bonnie Jermey, and Jeff Smith is the president. All the volunteers on Hospice Orillia work up to 30 hours of training. There is a total of 85 volunteers in the

Hospice Orillia alone, providing almost 2,000 hours of volunteer services a year to the citizens of Orillia and district, which includes the three or four townships around Orillia and the First

Nations.

They work of course with palliative care and in a lot of cases the end-of-life circumstances in homes, at the hospital and in our long-term-care facilities. As

well, they do a lot of fundraising on their own. This coming winter, there's a gala evening out at Geneva Park. It's one of the largest fundraisers they have, and that gala evening will be on March

5 of this year. If any of my colleagues in the House would like to buy tickets and come up for a beautiful weekend in Simcoe North, I can make sure you attend this gala evening with me because I

will be there.

As well, I have an organization started by a lovely person by the name of Bev Geroux, and it's called Hospice Huronia. It works with the two hospitals in the

Midland-Penetanguishene area, the Huronia District Hospital and the Penetanguishene General Hospital. They call themselves today the North Simcoe Hospital Alliance because they've done some neat

things around the coordination of the administration of the two hospitals, and the boards work together as well.

The president of Hospice Huronia is another gentleman who does a lot of volunteer work in the Midland-Penetanguishene area, a gentleman by the name of Jim

Malcolm. His two managers at Hospice Huronia are Heather Graham and Kathy Gordon. Again, they do all kinds of work with assorted long-term-care facilities and the two hospitals, and a lot of work

with people in their homes with palliative care and near-the-end-of-life circumstances.

Anything we can do for our volunteers and our health care system that would be of any kind of benefit at all, and that would mean tax relief on property they

own or encouragement for volunteers, I think is a step in the right direction at any time, by any political party, in any province or country.

I don't know how we'd perform without volunteers in our great province, especially in the health care sector, where not only the hospice folks work day in and

day out with thousands of volunteer hours, but also the volunteer auxiliaries we have in all of the hospitals across our province where folks spend tens of thousands of hours a year providing

volunteer services to our hospitals.

With that, I will be supporting Mr Flynn on this bill. I wish you good luck in this private members' time. I think a lot more private members' bills should be

going through and becoming law instead of playing around with some of these pit bull and bring-your-own-wine junk bills. This is the kind of thing we should be debating.

Mr Brad Duguid (Scarborough Centre): I'm pleased to participate in this debate as well. I've been listening carefully to the excellent

comments from members from all sides of the House on this.

The days of treating municipalities like mere creatures of the province are over. That ended over a year ago when this government took office. The McGuinty

government is forging ahead with an effective relationship with municipalities that, frankly, is probably more effective than we have seen not only in the last number of years, but probably more

effective than we've seen in generations.

We understand that municipalities are a bona fide level or order of government, and they should be treated as such. We recognize that they're elected and have

just as much legitimacy as we do here at Queen's Park or as they do up on Parliament Hill. This bill is in keeping with the spirit of that approach. It's time to start treating municipalities like

they deserve to be treated. It's time to give municipalities the respect they've earned. This bill, as I said, is in keeping with this approach. That's why I am absolutely pleased to lend my

support to it.

I want to commend the member from Oakville. This is a member who has been here for over a year now. This is a terrific initiative that he's moved forward on.

In the short period of a year, this member has also helped preserve 1,300 acres of environmentally sensitive land in his Oakville community. He was also a key player in the very important deal that

was made with Ford Canada in Oakville, where something like 4,500 jobs have been secured, and in terms of spinoff jobs, probably 20,000 to 30,000 spinoff jobs. So I just want to take this

opportunity to thank the people of Oakville for sending Kevin Flynn to us here in the Legislature. He's my seatmate. His Irish sense of humour keeps us in the back row here very engaged throughout,

and he has had an incredible impact here in a short year at Queen's Park.

Every Ontarian, every human being deserves to be treated with dignity when they are going through their last days. Nobody deserves to die alone. Nobody

deserves to die in squalor. The number of hospices in this province is growing. Most of the facilities are run through charitable donations, with the help of volunteers.

Our health care system as a whole is already growing at an unsustainable rate. The prospect of finding additional funding -- some members opposite are

suggesting trying to expand the hospice system. At this point in time, that's probably not terribly realistic, so I think it's important that we move forward with an initiative that will provide

some assistance, that will at least provide municipalities with the ability to, if they so choose, provide some property tax relief to hospices. We're not saying they have to do it; we're saying

that if they choose to do it, we're giving them permission or the ability to do these kinds of things.

That, I think, is important. Why would we want municipalities -- and some are -- why would we force them to have to provide municipal grants to hospices rather

than waive or exempt them from property tax? Why would we make them go through that red tape? It just doesn't make sense. The member from Oakville recognizes this through his experiences as a

regional councillor, and I am very happy that he has brought those experiences here today and brought this bill here before us today.

The McGuinty government respects the ability of our municipal councils to make their own minds up on these kinds of issues. At the same time, we are doing our

share as well to ensure that these communities continue to fulfill their potential. Look at the two cents of the gas tax that's beginning to flow now. Look at the partnering that we've had with the

federal, provincial and municipal governments for the $1 billion in public transit that's going to the TTC.

Minister Kwinter recently announced an initiative to put 1,000 more police constables on our streets in partnership with the municipalities. My own minister,

the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing, recently signed an agreement with AMO to ensure that whenever we're making decisions here at the province, whenever we're getting engaged in

federal-provincial decisions that impact municipalities, the municipalities will be consulted. We believe that municipalities should have the ability to make these kinds of decisions.

I'm delighted to have an opportunity to speak to this very important bill here today and to commend Mr Flynn for bringing it forward.

The Deputy Speaker: Mr Flynn, you have two minutes to reply.

Mr Flynn: I certainly did appreciate all the comments from all of the members, those being from Parry Sound-Muskoka, Trinity-Spadina,

Toronto-Danforth, Brampton Centre, Etobicoke Centre, Scarborough Centre, Nepean-Carleton and Simcoe North. I hope I didn't leave anybody out.

I want to summarize by making sure, as I try to make you this offer you can't refuse in supporting my bill, that you understand that this is about choice. It's

not compelling a municipality, it's not forcing a municipality to exempt a hospice from property tax; it's giving the option to provide that exemption to the municipality. The decision would be

made by a duly-elected council of that town, city or region.

When you talk about the financial aspects of this bill, and you look around the province -- take a look at the Hospice of London. It is going to owe about

$16,000 this year in property taxes. There is another project called the Hospice of Windsor and Essex County, and it's considering what's called a hospice village. Its property tax bill for this

could exceed $100,000 a year. We're saying that at this current point in time, should the municipalities choose to do so, they could save up to $60,000 annually at the hospice level, and leave that

$60,000 with the hospices and allow them to do the good work that they are intending to do, and perhaps even grow the system a little bit.

It costs about $200 a day to run a residential hospice bed; at a non-teaching hospital, $647. In a teaching hospital, that figure rises to $907 a day. There's

some economic sense in supporting this bill as well. I would urge all members to support it. I'm sure by doing so, you will tell all those volunteers in the hospice sector how much you appreciate

the work they do.

The Deputy Speaker: The time provided for private members' public business is expired.

PROVINCIAL STATUTORY HOLIDAY

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Bruce Crozier): We'll deal first with ballot item number 39, standing in the name of Mr Colle. Is it the pleasure of

the House that the motion carry? I heard a no.

All those in favour, say "aye."

All those opposed, say "nay."

In my opinion, the ayes have it.

MUNICIPAL AMENDMENT ACT

(HOSPICES EXEMPTION), 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR LES MUNICIPALITÉS

(EXONÉRATION ACCORDÉE

AUX HOSPICES)

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Bruce Crozier): We will now deal with ballot item 40. Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry?

Carried.

Mr Kevin Daniel Flynn (Oakville): Mr Speaker, I'd ask that this bill be referred to the standing committee on social policy.

The Deputy Speaker: Agreed? Agreed.

Pursuant to standing order 144, I'd like to take this opportunity to send a message to my wife, who is at home on this day, our 43rd wedding anniversary. I

love you, dear. Happy anniversary.

All matters relating to private members' public business having been dealt with, I do now leave the chair. The House will resume at 1:30 of the clock.

The House recessed from 1202 to 1330.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

ANNETTE LISABETH

Mr Toby Barrett (Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant): I rise today to tell the tale of Norfolk's golden girl, Annette Lisabeth. Annette is 20 years old

and is legally blind. However, over the past few years she has not allowed her impairment to stand in the way of her dream, and that was to compete in Athens at the Paralympics.

Not only did Annette earn her way to Athens as a member of Canada's goalball team, but she also managed to bring home a gold medal. While Annette is a natural

athlete and comes from a family of athletes, she still dedicated much of her time -- six days a week -- to working out the in the gym practising over the past year.

Norfolk county is certainly proud of this young lady, who has captured the hearts of many with her humble attitude and positive outlook on life. Just recently,

the community of Langton threw an open house in Annette's honour. She was escorted to the community centre in a fire truck and was given a true heroine's welcome.

Annette's family and the entire community will be able to reflect on this athlete's accomplishments for many years to come, as her name and accomplishments

will be memorialized on signs entering Langton.

On behalf of this House and on behalf of my constituents in Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant, I congratulate Annette on her gold medal and I wish her well for the

future.

MARLENE STEWART STREIT

Mr Tony C. Wong (Markham): It is with great pride that I rise today to acknowledge and congratulate the achievements of a great Canadian and a

resident of Unionville in my riding of Markham. This past Monday, Marlene Stewart Streit was inducted into the World Golf Hall of Fame. In addition to this great achievement and honour, I would

like to note that Marlene Stewart Streit is the first Canadian to receive such an honour.

In 1953, at only 19 years of age, Marlene Stewart Streit won the British Women's Amateur. This great Canadian, whose contribution to the world of golf spans

six decades, is the only golfer to have won the Canadian, Australian, British and US women's championships. Just last year, she won the US senior women's amateur for the third time.

Ms Marlene Stewart Streit is a wonderful role model for all Ontarians and Markham residents alike. Her career demonstrates how a commitment to physical

activity, hard work and dedication can result in great things. Today this trailblazer continues to contribute to the world of golf as a mentor encouraging and supporting young people, particularly

young women, in improving their skills. Forty years ago, Ms Streit had the foresight and generosity to establish the Marlene Stewart Streit Awards.

Once again, in recognition of this historic event, I congratulate this amazing woman who is a trailblazer not only for women golfers, but for all Canadians. It

is my privilege to salute Marlene Stewart Streit as the first Canadian to be inducted into the World Golf Hall of Fame. I certainly know who to ask for advice now when on the greens of York Downs

golf course in Markham.

PIT BULLS

Mrs Julia Munro (York North): Yesterday I was pleased to join with the members of the Staffordshire Bull Terrier Club of Canada on the front

lawn of Queen's Park. I enjoyed the chance to meet with the owners and breeders, and especially with many of their friendly and talented dogs.

Owners and breeders know that a safe dog is one that grew up in a responsible home. It is a dog that was trained to respect people and other animals. Dogs that

bite or attack usually come from homes where they themselves have been abused or mistreated.

This government will not prevent dog attacks by passing breed-specific legislation. Breed-specific legislation has been tried elsewhere and failed. In fact,

there are now 12 American states that specifically forbid breed-specific legislation from an unhappy experience at attempting to do the kind of thing that this government is trying to do now.

Who else is against this bill? Here is the list: the Humane Society of Canada, the Ontario Veterinary Medical Association, the Canadian Kennel Club, the

Canadian Federation of Humane Societies, the Toronto Humane Society, the Winnipeg Humane Society, the Canada Safety Council, the Dog Legislation Council of Canada, the Pet Industry Joint Advisory

Council.

What this government should do is pass reasonable and enforceable dangerous dog legislation, not outlaw specific breeds. Ban the deed, not the breed.

ONTARIO FILM AND

TELEVISION INDUSTRY

Mr Rosario Marchese (Trinity-Spadina): There's a jobs crisis in the film and television industry in this province. Over 50,000 jobs depend

upon this industry, and most of them are in Toronto and area. Liberals had promised to boost the Ontario film and television tax credit from 20% to 33%. They also said they would increase this

credit for feature films from 20% to 40%. We have yet to see the benefits of this promise. The film industry is suffering.

Foreign-project filming in Ontario declined a stunning 36%, or $200 million, in 2003. Film Ontario stated that the Ontario film and television industry is

extremely concerned about the lack of competitiveness in Ontario's domestic and service tax credits, and it's only going to get worse. The US will soon have new lucrative tax credits. Manitoba has

tax credits of 35% or more. In contrast, Ontario's incentive is only about 11%.

When we asked for support for one of the most important industries in Ontario, the finance minister said his government will help generate a skilled labour and

talent pool and will build infrastructure.

Minister, I want to let you in on a secret everyone knows: Ontario already has the talent and the skill, and one of the best infrastructures in the world. What

production companies need is a reason to come to the Toronto region.

Your investment of $1 creates a return of $2. This is not support; it's investment. You should do this for the economy, for performers, for the industry and

for Toronto. The film industry needs your help, Premier. Keep your promise.

FOSTER AND ADOPTION FAMILIES

Mr Ernie Parsons (Prince Edward-Hastings): I would like to say a special thank you to a group of people I view as unsung heroes in this

province. They are the natural and adopted children of foster parents.

When adults make a decision to foster, the family automatically becomes part of the team. But for the children, it means that they now have to share their

room, their toys; they have to share their friends. They have to share the family secrets that tend to become part of the community. But even more importantly, they have to share their parents.

As I believe most people know, the most valuable thing we own is time. So the foster children will take the time that could have gone to the others, and they

do it wonderfully. I consider them heroes, because they are very much part of the fostering team. They experience the joys of sharing with the foster children, and they share the sorrow when the

foster children move on to another home or return home. I believe we owe a great thank you to them.

I also would like to say a special thank you to Anne and Gerald Dafoe, foster parents in my community who have fostered for over 30 years. I cannot imagine or

count the number of children whose lives they have positively affected. Yet in spite of their commitment to children, Anne finds time to be a trainer for the agency, to serve as an advocate for

foster parents, to be involved provincially with the Foster Parents Society of Ontario -- a wonderful family that is a role model for everyone in our community and this province.

So, on behalf of, not just this Legislature, but the people of Ontario, I would like to say thank you to Anne and Gerald Dafoe.

PREMIER OF ONTARIO

Mr Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North): I'm pleased to rise today and make a few comments on Mr McGuinty. I want to begin by congratulating him on

placing a bet with Mr Gordon Campbell, hoping that the Argos will beat the BC Lions.

I thought what was really important about that bet was that we're so fortunate to have a Canadian Football League. Why? Because under the guidance of a

gentleman by the name of John Tory, he rebuilt that league and revitalized it to what it is today: sellouts. We're very proud of the CFL.

Guess what's happened? Although we have a good relationship with BC this week, what's happening to the eastern coast? Mr McGuinty is doing a number on another

Premier, Mr Danny. I'll read from this morning's Globe and Mail:

"Williams's Oil Fight Hits McGuinty.

"Danny Williams's fight to hold on to resource revenues took another bizarre twist yesterday when the Newfoundland Premier vowed he had a handwritten letter of

support from Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty, only to have Mr McGuinty's office deny they had ever heard of such a thing."

What good is a handwritten letter from Dalton McGuinty anyway? I have this handwritten letter from Dalton McGuinty, the taxpayer protection pledge. This man

said he would not raise taxes. Guess what? He signed it during the election campaign and broke his promise. He will create deficits and increase taxes. Thank you, Mr Speaker, and good luck to the

Argonauts.

PUBLIC INQUIRY

Mr Jim Brownell (Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh): It gives me great pleasure to rise today and, first, welcome page Laura St Marseille from

my riding, and speak on an issue that is of utmost importance to my riding of Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh.

On November 4, 2004, the Premier stood before this House and committed to the people of my riding that a full public inquiry would be called in the Project

Truth investigations once all criminal proceedings were concluded.

I'm happy to announce today that on Monday, November 15, 2004, the last of the criminal proceedings were concluded, and yesterday the Premier, myself and the

Attorney General, Michael Bryant, committed to holding a full public inquiry in this case. Thank you, Minister Bryant.

The Project Truth investigations and subsequent criminal proceedings have clouded over the Cornwall area for the past decade. With the announcement of this

public inquiry, the truth of allegations of misconduct and alleged cover-ups will be able to come to light. The people of Cornwall and area will be able to lift this cloud of allegations and have

these investigations come to a conclusion.

I look forward to working with the Attorney General's office to ensure we get the terms of reference right for this inquiry. I will welcome Minister Bryant to

my riding in the near future to meet with the victims' groups and stakeholders to ensure that justice is served for the people of Cornwall.

As a candidate in the 2003 election, I championed this issue. During the past year, I worked tirelessly with the Attorney General's office to ensure this issue

was constantly on the agenda. I applaud the victims' groups and both Alain Seguin and Paul Scott for their determination in this cause, and am proud to be part of a government that has respected

and supported the concerns of Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh.

HEALTH CARE FUNDING

Mr Brad Duguid (Scarborough Centre): Waiting times for surgery and MRIs are of great concern to the people of this province. Ontario wants and

needs a health care system that can deliver timely access to crucial procedures such as MRIs, hip and knee replacements, cancer surgery, cataract operations and cardiac surgeries.

Yesterday, the McGuinty government announced new funding of $107 million to reduce wait times. That's $107 million. In fact, this money will take a one-year

bite out of waiting lists for Ontarians. This money comes from the recently negotiated federal-provincial accord on medicare, and unlike the previous government, we are actually going to spend this

money on health care.

Interjection: What a novel concept.

Mr Duguid: A novel concept.

With this investment, we will see 1,680 more hip and knee replacements, 805 more cardiac surgeries and 2,000 more cataract operations, as well as more cancer

surgeries and longer hours of operation for MRIs.

Not only will this money go to reducing waiting times; it will also go toward building a waiting list registry, which will, for the first time, give Ontarians

a reliable measure of how long waiting lists are. For the first time in a long time, the people of Ontario have a government that is committed to improving health care in this province through

meaningful investments in areas that matter to average citizens.

Transforming the health care system in this province is a formidable challenge, but with the leadership of our Premier and our Minister of Health and with the

leadership and dedication of our caucus, we are going to get this job done.

GREY CUP

Mr Mike Colle (Eglinton-Lawrence): This Sunday, all eyes will be on the nation's capital, Ottawa, because it is the 95th year that the Grey

Cup will be celebrated. We've got two great teams, one from the west coast, British Columbia, versus our own Toronto Argos, representing this great province of Ontario.

As you know, Mr Speaker, this spectacle that brings Canadians together will bring tens of millions of dollars into the Ottawa economy. It is also a great

celebration of an historic Canadian event that brings players from across Canada to demonstrate that we in Canada have something distinctive, something to be very proud of, something that is

uniquely Canadian and something that hopefully our young people will continue to appreciate and be part of.

So we invite everybody from across Ontario to get together at family parties, to visit their local restaurants, to be in Ottawa at the game, and to celebrate

not only football, not only the Grey Cup, but two different parts of the country coming together not in controversy, not bashing each other, but in good, clean competition at the Grey Cup. This

Sunday hopefully we'll all partake in this great Canadian event called the Grey Cup. Go, Argos, go.

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON ESTIMATES

Mr John O'Toole (Durham): I beg leave to present a report from the standing committee on estimates.

The Clerk-at-the-Table (Mr Todd Decker): Your committee begs to report the following resolutions:

Resolved, that supply in the following amounts and to defray the expenses --

Interjection: Dispense.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Bruce Crozier): Dispense? Thank you.

VISITOR

Mr Mike Colle (Eglinton-Lawrence): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I'd like to welcome His Worship the mayor of the spectacular city of

Hawkesbury on the eastern border of the great empire of Ontario, Mayor Jacques Hétu.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Bruce Crozier): That's not a point of order, but we certainly welcome you, sir.

MOTIONS

HOUSE SITTINGS

Hon Dwight Duncan (Minister of Energy, Government House Leader): I believe we have unanimous consent to move a motion with respect to

tonight's sitting.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Bruce Crozier): Do we have unanimous consent? Agreed.

Hon Mr Duncan: I move that, notwithstanding the order of the House dated Monday, November 15, 2004, when the House adjourns today at 6 pm, it

stand adjourned until Monday, November 22, at 1:30 pm.

The Deputy Speaker: Mr Duncan has moved that, notwithstanding the order of the House dated Monday, November 15, 2004, when the House adjourns

today at 6 pm, it stand adjourned until Monday, November 22, at 1:30 pm.

Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

CONSIDERATION OF BILL 18

Hon Dwight Duncan (Minister of Energy, Government House Leader): I believe I have unanimous consent to move a motion without notice respecting

Bill 18.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Bruce Crozier): Do we have unanimous consent? Agreed.

Hon Mr Duncan: I move that the order referring Bill 18,

An Act respecting the Provincial Auditor, to the standing committee on the Legislative

Assembly be discharged and the bill instead be ordered for third reading, and that the order for third reading of Bill 18 may be called today.

The Deputy Speaker: Mr Duncan has moved that the order referring Bill 18,

An Act respecting the Provincial Auditor, to the standing committee

on the Legislative Assembly be discharged and the bill instead be ordered for third reading, and that the order for third reading of Bill 18 may be called today.

Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

DEMOCRATIC RENEWAL /

RENOUVEAU DÉMOCRATIQUE

Hon Michael Bryant (Attorney General, minister responsible for native affairs, minister responsible for democratic renewal): I rise today to

tell this House of an important step in advancing the most ambitious democratic renewal agenda in Ontario's history. We are taking the necessary steps that will renew Ontario's democracy and make

it stronger.

I will remind members of this House that we have introduced bills to fix election dates on the first Thursday of October on a four-year cycle, a bill to

mandate attendance at question period, we're expanding the Provincial Auditor's powers --

Mr Norman W. Sterling (Lanark-Carleton): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I'm reading the statement provided to me and required to be provided

to me by the minister, and it's not included in this statement, sir. Could I have a copy of the statement? I'm not hearing what's in the statement.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Bruce Crozier): Perhaps you could arrange for him to have what's necessary, and we'll all listen to the statement.

Hon Mr Bryant: We will be having pre-election audits, a ban on partisan government advertising, and this House, of course, now has a bill

that, for the first time, was introduced in the House by a committee.

This morning, I joined the Premier in launching the next step in our government's ambitious democratic renewal agenda -- paragraph 4.

We announced historic measures that will give citizens a stronger voice in shaping Ontario's democracy than ever before.

The first is a citizens' jury on political finance. We'll be setting up that jury to find ways to reduce the influence of money in politics in Ontario and give

people more confidence in our democratic system. The citizens' jury will be a deliberative body made up of ordinary citizens. It will look at a range of issues, including expense and contribution

levels, reporting requirements, leadership contests and pre-election periods. It will make recommendations on the future of Ontario's political finance system after considering a draft bill on the

subject.

Secondly, we will also establish a citizens' assembly on electoral reform. The assembly will look at how Ontarians elect their representatives, the most

wide-ranging and comprehensive examination of our electoral system since Confederation.

C'est la première fois en Ontario qu'un gouvernement donne aux citoyens un rôle aussi important dans l'élaboration de notre processus politique

et de son fonctionnement.

We kicked it off with a launch of a public dialogue on democracy, which is going on here today at Queen's Park. I know that some members have been over to

participate in some of the sessions. Everyone has been invited to attend, and I know some have been there. I know everybody is very busy here in the Legislature today, but I welcome all members to

come and attend. Of course, there will be a reception at the end of the afternoon as well.