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September 24, 2008

39th Parliament, 1st Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2008-Sep-24 (PDF)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L'ONTARIO

Wednesday 24 September 2008 Mercredi 24 septembre 2008

ORDERS OF THE DAY

SERVICES AND SUPPORTS

TO PROMOTE THE SOCIAL INCLUSION

OF PERSONS WITH DEVELOPMENTAL

DISABILITIES ACT, 2008 /

LOI DE 2008 SUR LES SERVICES

ET SOUTIENS FAVORISANT

L'INCLUSION SOCIALE DES PERSONNES

AYANT UNE DÉFICIENCE INTELLECTUELLE

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

MEMBER'S COMMENTS

ORAL QUESTIONS

C. DIFFICILE

C. DIFFICILE

POVERTY

POVERTY

YOUTH CRIME

CHILD POVERTY

CHILD PORNOGRAPHY

TAXATION

EMPLOYMENT SUPPORTS

TOURISM

CLASS SIZE

PUBLIC CONSULTATION

AGRI-FOOD INDUSTRY

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

CHILD CARE

VISITORS

PETITIONS

CLASS SIZE

PROTECTION FOR MINERS

GUN CONTROL

LONG-TERM CARE

GARDE D'ENFANTS

PROTECTION FOR MINERS

HOSPITAL FUNDING

HOSPITAL FUNDING

HOSPITAL FUNDING

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

CASH ROLLS OF CANADA

ARTHRITIS

ONTARIO RESEARCH FUND

MUSKOKA ALGONQUIN HEALTHCARE

FESTITALIA

MINISTER'S COMMENTS

EVENTS IN MISSISSAUGA SOUTH

RAISE-A-READER DAY

RAMADAN

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY

STANDING COMMITTEE ON

PUBLIC ACCOUNTS

MOTIONS

REVIEW OF PROVISIONAL

STANDING ORDERS

ORDERS OF THE DAY

FEDERAL-PROVINCIAL

FISCAL POLICIES /

POLITIQUES FISCALES

FÉDÉRALES-PROVINCIALES

The House met at 0900.

Prayers.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

SERVICES AND SUPPORTS

TO PROMOTE THE SOCIAL INCLUSION

OF PERSONS WITH DEVELOPMENTAL

DISABILITIES ACT, 2008 /

LOI DE 2008 SUR LES SERVICES

ET SOUTIENS FAVORISANT

L'INCLUSION SOCIALE DES PERSONNES

AYANT UNE DÉFICIENCE INTELLECTUELLE

Mrs. Meilleur moved third reading of the following bill:

Bill 77,

An Act to provide services to persons with developmental disabilities, to repeal the Developmental Services Act and to amend certain other statutes / Projet de loi 77, Loi visant à prévoir des services pour les personnes ayant une déficience intellectuelle, à abroger la

Loi sur les services aux personnes ayant une déficience intellectuelle et à modifier d'autres lois.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Debate? Minister of Community and Social Services.

Hon. Madeleine Meilleur: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Please note that I will be sharing my time today with my parliamentary assistant, the MPP for London–Fanshawe.

I rise in the House today in support of our government's proposed legislation to be called the Services and Supports to Promote the Social Inclusion of Persons with Developmental Disabilities Act, 2008.

Je prends la parole aujourd'hui afin d'appuyer le projet de loi 77 proposé par mon gouvernement, que nous appellerons dorénavant Loi de 2008 sur les services et soutiens favorisant l'inclusion sociale des personnes ayant une déficience intellectuelle.

You may notice that the title of this bill has changed since I introduced it last May.

À l'origine, ce projet de loi s'appelait la Loi de 2008 sur les services aux personnes ayant une déficience intellectuelle.

Bill 77 was originally called the Services for Persons with Developmental Disabilities Act, but families and partners felt that this title didn't capture the true spirit of this new legislation. We listened, and we agreed. Because at its heart, this bill is about more than services. It is about people; it is about inclusion; it is about creating an Ontario where all people feel that they truly belong.

Le soutien et les services aux personnes ayant une déficience intellectuelle ne sont pas une fin en soi. Ce sont plutôt et surtout des moyens pour inclure ces personnes dans tous les aspects de la vie et de la collectivité.

Developmental services and supports are not an end but a means—a means to include people with developmental disabilities in all aspects of community life. This is what our legislation will promote: social inclusion. I ask that the members of this Legislature consider how important it is to be included in society. As public representatives, we make careers out of participating in society and contributing to our communities. Most of us take inclusion for granted, but for people with a developmental disability, few things could be more precious.

That's why our government believes that the time has come for people with a developmental disability to take their rightful place in Ontario's communities.

La loi que nous proposons aidera les personnes qui ont une déficience intellectuelle à vivre de façon autonome, à s'intégrer dans la vie de leur collectivité et à y participer pleinement.

Our proposed legislation will help people live more independently, participate more fully and be truly included in the community. It represents years of work, dedication and unprecedented co-operation among ministry staff, developmental services partners and families. I want to thank them today, especially all those who have participated so diligently to make this bill what it is today. I want to thank my staff Laura and Paulo; I want to thank Colette Kent from the ministry, and all her team; and all our partner agencies in the collectivity; and especially the families, who were very firm and very clear on what they wanted. For those of you who are here today, thank you.

More important, it represents a new beginning for people with a developmental disability in Ontario. Our current legislation came from a time when people with a developmental disability were placed in institutions away from the community. The walls of these vast institutions promised families safety and seclusion. Today, the writing is on these walls. We do not want seclusion; we demand inclusion. We do not hide our differences; we celebrate them. We don't believe disability means inability; we know it means other ability.

Distinguished geneticist Dr. Blumberg, who himself was blind in one eye, put it beautifully. He said, "It is just a mistake to think of people with a disability as lesser than. There is no lesser than. There is just different from. It isn't just great minds that matter. It's great spirits too."

As Minister of Community and Social Services, I have been privileged to meet many people with developmental disabilities. I have been moved by their courage, their playfulness, their humility and their grace. I can tell you that their spirits have affected me more than the most persuasive arguments of eloquent words.

À

titre de ministre des Services sociaux et communautaires, j'ai eu le privilège de rencontrer plusieurs personnes qui ont un handicap intellectuel. Leur courage, leur humilité, leur sens de l'humour et leur charme m'ont beaucoup touchée. Je puis vous dire aussi que leur grandeur d'âme m'a marquée plus que n'importe quel argument et rhétorique.

Ontario needs new legislation that honours the spirit of people with developmental disabilities; legislation that promotes their inclusion in society; legislation that gives them and their families control over their services and support; legislation that values them as individuals with distinct needs.

We've designed Bill 77 to do this. It reflects how we live today, in rich, diverse communities. We cannot build a new developmental services system on a crumbling foundation. Bill 77 is solid legislation for today and for tomorrow.

Le projet de Loi de 2008 sur les services et soutiens favorisant l'inclusion sociale des personnes ayant une déficience intellectuelle est une loi sûre et solide qui reflète nos besoins maintenant et pour l'avenir.

Already we have begun the groundwork to build a modern system, one that reflects our modern society. We have been developing a comprehensive plan for the future, one that leads us for the next 25 years and beyond. We are on track to closing Ontario's three remaining facilities for people with developmental disabilities by the end of March 2009. Closing Ontario's developmental service institutions is about giving people more opportunity to enjoy community life. We have put people, all people, first.

We have been working with staff from our government facilities to place them in community jobs and help them to take the next step in their service career. We have collaborated with individuals, families and partners to give people with a developmental disability living arrangements tailored to their needs. It has not been easy. Families are worried about what this change could mean for their loved ones. But I am happy to say that families, even those initially against the change, have now told us that it was the right thing to do.

Working side by side, we have helped more than 800 people move into communities across Ontario.

Je suis très heureuse de confirmer que les familles, même celles qui au début du processus de désinstitutionnalisation avaient des réticences, nous disent maintenant que c'était la bonne chose à faire. Nous avons réussi à aider plus de 800 personnes à quitter les établissements gouvernementaux et à s'établir dans des résidences dans la collectivité.

At a meeting with one of our partners, I shared a wonderful story about one man's experience in his new home. Let me share it with you today. After leaving Huronia Regional Centre, this gentleman moved to a Mississauga community. He is now a neighbourhood celebrity. When he attended a recent Community Living Mississauga meeting, he brought an entourage of his 30 new friends, including his bank teller, and the owner of a horseback riding stable where he now rides. This exceptional man's neighbours were there to share his success. Because as he grows, learns new things and makes new friends, his neighbours do too. The whole community is richer for his presence.

We want all Ontarians living with a developmental disability to enjoy this acceptance and make this kind of an impact. Ontario's developmental services system has more than 40,000 people like this gentleman, with a $1.5-billion budget. Families and developmental service partners have told us they want a better system that is more flexible, fair and focused on people, not bureaucracy. We've listened.

Following a thorough clause-by-clause review, Bill 77 will create a consistent application process in each region of the province, make person-directed planning a ministry-funded service and require that all draft regulations be posted for families and partners to review.

This legislation demonstrates our commitment to partners, families and, most importantly, to people with a developmental disability. This is as it should be, because at its core this bill is about including people—all people—in the life of our province.

We are asking the members of this House to help us take this next step, to do their part to create an Ontario where everyone truly belongs. Together we have come far, and together we will go even further.

Franklin Roosevelt, the four-time American president who lived with a disability, once said, "The only limit to our realization of tomorrow will be our doubts of today. Let us move forward with a strong and active faith." This government has no doubt in people with a developmental disability, so let us move forward together with faith in a brighter tomorrow. Let us realize an Ontario that includes great minds and great spirits.

Notre gouvernement a confiance dans ses citoyens, peu importe leurs difficultés et leurs handicaps. II nous incombe de faire de notre province un lieu inclusif où il fait bon vivre, maintenant et dans l'avenir.

I encourage all members of the House to support this legislation.

Mr. Khalil Ramal: I'm honoured to rise in this House today, on behalf of our government, for third reading of Bill 77,

An Act to provide services to persons with developmental disabilities, to repeal the Developmental Services Act and to amend certain other statutes. If passed, this legislation will help us build rich, diverse Ontario communities where people of all abilities can participate and feel that they truly belong.

Ontario's previous developmental services legislation was designed to support people in institutions. It was a product of its time, its face turned to the past, while Ontario looks forward to the future.

Les anciennes lois de l'Ontario concernant les services aux personnes ayant une déficience intellectuelle étaient conçues pour soutenir ces personnes dans un cadre institutionnel. Ce n'est plus le cas. Nous n'avons donc plus besoin de ces lois qui sont maintenant désuètes. Aujourd'hui, ces personnes vivent dans la collectivité où nous vivons, vous et moi. Ils sont mes voisins, vos voisins. Pour mieux les soutenir, nos lois doivent être adaptées à la nouvelle réalité.

Today we support people with a developmental disability in homes, not facilities. Today we know that people with a developmental disability enjoy meaningful lives in the community. Today we know that people with a developmental disability give back to their communities as much as they receive. And so we must update our legislation to reflect our times and new ways of thinking.

Bill 77 would legislate a modern system of more fair, flexible and sustainable supports for people with a developmental disability. It would stamp fairness, dignity and inclusion for people with a developmental disability in the letter of law, so that our laws line up with our ideals.

Already, our government has laid the foundation to transform Ontario's developmental services system. We have invested an additional half a billion dollars in Ontario's developmental services system since taking office. Thanks to the co-operation of developmental service partners, families and the government, this investment has achieved remarkable results. Right now, our passport program is helping 2,200 young adults enjoy a bright future in their communities. We have served 8,400 more families through the special services at home program, a 40% increase since 2004.

Our four new community networks of specialized care are helping people with a dual diagnosis get the specialized care they need to thrive. And we haven't forgotten about the men and women who help people with a developmental disability reach their goals, so we have brought salaries for developmental services staff in line with other jobs in the social service field.

Ontario's developmental service system supports more than 40,000 people, with a vast $1.5-billion budget. As we continue to invest in developmental services, we need new legislation to create a fair and sustainable system that puts people, not red tape, first, so that our developmental service system will be a leader for people with developmental disabilities, today and tomorrow. We know it's a bold vision, but we believe in it. We believe in it because of our dedicated developmental service partners. We believe in it because of the remarkable people with a developmental disability that our system is here to serve.

Nous y croyons à cause du travail acharné de nos partenaires communautaires et intervenants qui oeuvrent sans relâche dans les services aux personnes ayant une déficience intellectuelle. Nous y croyons à cause de l'esprit remarquable des clients que nous servons.

Families and partners have told us they want service and supports that are easy to get, no matter where they live. They want more choice in the types of support they receive and greater control over how they receive them. They want to design life plans that lay out each person's distinct needs and goals. They want to be part of the process every step of the way, reviewing all the regulations before they become final. Families want the people working with their loved ones to be accountable, and our partner agencies want inspections to be conducted appropriately, with respect for the people they serve.

They talked and we listened, and I'm proud to say that our common goal of putting people with a developmental disability first led us to a consensus on most issues. After a thorough clause-by-clause review, we are confident this legislation provides better service so that people can get the service and supports they need more easily; more choice, so that people and families can tailor supports to their needs; and fairness so that everyone will be treated fairly across Ontario. With better services and supports, more choice and fairness, Ontarians with a developmental disability will be able to participate more fully in community life. This legislation has been a long time coming.

Ce projet de loi est l'aboutissement de nombreuses années de travail, de consultation, de planification et de vision. Si nous décidons de l'adopter, il mettra fin à une période, maintenant révolue, où les personnes ayant une déficience intellectuelle devaient vivre en institutions.

It is the hard work over the years, and the consultations, planning and vision—that's why we've reached this level. If this passes, it will become legislation we can look back upon and say, "With this bill, we closed the doors on Ontario's institutions."

Today we are asking the members of this House to help us close the doors on all the institutions in this beautiful province. Today we are asking the members of this House to help us open the doors to Ontario's communities for people with developmental disabilities. Today we can put the ideals of fairness, dignity and inclusion into action by passing this new law.

It's a sign of nobility to have lofty ideals, but it is a sign of greatness to put those ideals into action. Let's come together to show the world the greatness of Ontario. Also, I encourage all members from both sides of the House, when the vote comes, to stand and vote in support of this bill. I encourage all of us, because it's very important, as I mentioned, to close the doors on the facilities that have existed until now in our communities and give families who have a person, a loved one with a disability, living with them a choice.

When we travelled the province for many days in many jurisdictions, from Timmins to Ottawa to London, and also in Toronto, we heard from many different families and many different stakeholders. They told us, clearly and loudly, that they want a choice. They have a right to choose the service they think is good for their loved ones.

Before I finish, Mr. Speaker, I want to thank all the members from the Conservatives, the NDP and also our caucus who served on the committee. They gave us great ideas. They participated in a manner and in a fashion that helped us achieve our goal: a beautiful, good and great bill to serve people with disabilities across Ontario.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): Questions and comments?

Mr. Ted Arnott: I'm pleased to have this opportunity to reply briefly to the Minister of Community and Social Services and to her parliamentary assistant, the member for London—Fanshawe, with respect to third reading of Bill 77,

An Act to provide services to persons with developmental disabilities, to repeal the Developmental Services Act and to amend certain other statutes.

I want to congratulate and thank the members of our caucus who participated on the standing committee that dealt with this bill over the summer break—the member for Dufferin—Caledon, our critic in this area, as well as the member for Whitby—Oshawa—who did an extraordinary job during four days of public hearings on this bill, listening to families, listening to the people who believe that this government could do more to help families with a member who has a developmental disability.

Certainly, in my riding of Wellington—Halton Hills, I have heard from people who support an organization called Families for a Secure Future. Friends of mine—Marv and Nancy McDougall of Hillsburgh—have been very active in that organization for many years. I believe the organization has existed for some 15 years, and it exists to ensure that there are planning supports in place for families who are in this situation. As you know, Mr.

Speaker, because this has been raised in the House on a number of occasions, and as the Minister of Community and Social Services is well aware, this organization has been forced to seek private funding to continue its activities because of insufficient support from the government.

So I want to use this time to ask the minister one last time, in the context of this debate on Bill 77, if she is willing to inform the House that she will be coming forward with new initiatives that will address the concerns that have been identified and brought forward by Families for a Secure Future. I hope that the minister will be willing to re-evaluate their concerns and come forward with a plan that will address their concerns to ensure they can have confidence, going forward into the future, that their family members will be dealt with and looked after in the way they want and in the way they need. I ask the minister, in her response, to address this issue.

Mr. Michael Prue: In response to the minister and the parliamentary assistant, I listened very carefully to your words. They were careful; they were well-chosen. But I am left with the feeling that these well-chosen words will not see action in the light of day.

I am reminded of what many of the participants, many of the people who came forward to the committee, had to say over those four days of hearings in Toronto, in London, in Timmins and in Ottawa, and what they were really asking for: the changes that needed to take place in this bill to make it workable and to make it really dynamic and powerful.

Two of the things that were most common in the debate from those hundred or so individuals were that they wanted a

preamble—and I listened intently to the minister and the parliamentary assistant, but there was nary a word about the government's refusal to include a

preamble in this legislation, one that would enforce the strength of the legislation, one that would guide the courts and Parliament, or workers in the system. It's not there.

The minister included nothing in her statement—nor did the parliamentary assistant—about the waiting lists which remain in the bill, and I'm puzzled why they have not come forward and proudly proclaimed the need that they feel for waiting lists. There was nothing at all said, and I will be spending some time myself on that. There was nothing, of course, about the rights for workers, which was intended to be put in the bill, where some of these workers will be hired by families—the rights that they might have. It was not proclaimed or not part of the bill either.

So we have before us a bill, and we have very flowery and very nice language and hopes for the future. I have those and share those same hopes, but I'm hoping that during the course of the debate other government members will stand and defend what the government has done in committee and why the bill has not gone as far forward as it should have.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): Questions and comments? The member for Ottawa Centre.

Mr. Yasir Naqvi: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to speak on Bill 77. I, along with many of my colleagues in this House, had the opportunity to travel with the committee during the months of summer across Toronto, Ottawa, Timmins and London, listening to the views of many of those people who are affected by this legislation or the previous legislation and will benefit from this legislation.

At the outset, I want to thank all the members who very thoroughly participated in the process during the committee, especially from the Progressive Conservative side and the NDP. We had some really good discussions to ensure that we do make this legislation better than what was in front of the committee.

There were two types of people whose submissions really struck me. One was people who do suffer from developmental disability, and their point of view matters most when considering the improvements to this legislation, and secondly, the parents who are really involved and engaged in the lives of their children who are suffering from developmental disability. Their comments and points of view are extremely helpful, and they were supportive of this legislation.

One of the key reasons they were supportive of this legislation is the fact that it gives parents the choice as to how they will look after and care for their family members. It gives them the choice to use the funding from the government to ensure that they have a life plan, that they have the services necessary to ensure that their loved ones are prospering and are equal members of this society and this community. That is the most fundamental thing about this legislation, and that's why I'm very proud to support this legislation.

There were some concerns we heard, and in the clause-by-clause process, those decisions and changes were made. Thank you very much.

Mr. Norm Miller: I'm pleased to add some comments to the speech from the minister and the parliamentary assistant on Bill 77, the Services for Persons with Developmental Disabilities Act, 2008. I would like to speak about the experience I've had in my own constituency of Parry Sound—Muskoka to do with people applying for the individualized funding and the Passport funding. I have to tell you that I think it's safe to say in just about all cases, either the people are turned down or they get inadequate funding put forward. I would like to bring specific cases forward.

I had a constituent, Louisa Crossthwaite, come in and speak to me about her son David, who has acquired brain injury, and the northeast regional office had just not been helpful and they haven't been successful in getting the help they need. I've had Debbie Vernon, who has been advocating for her sister Karen Jobbins, who used to have individualized funding. That has now been taken away. Her mother was helping to look after Karen, who is roughly about 50 years old—I wouldn't want to guess too accurately. She used to have individualized funding.

She is now in the Pines Long Term Care Home and that's not the right spot for Karen Jobbins. She could have a much better quality of life if she had proper individualized funding through the Passport program.

I had a family with an autistic child come into my office. They've not received adequate support from the northeast region. They've had to go south to Toronto, and it's making family life very difficult for them. One spouse has to drive to Toronto all the time to be able to get service. I would just comment that the current situation is not good. People are not receiving the funding they need, and there seems to be no willingness or capacity at least on the part of the northeast region to provide the help that people in the region of Parry Sound—Muskoka need.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): Response?

Hon. Madeleine Meilleur: I thank the members from Wellington—Halton Hills, Beaches—East York, Ottawa Centre and Parry Sound—Muskoka for their input into the debate.

I'm very proud to stand here today in support of Bill 77. I would like to take this opportunity to thank the members from the opposition parties for all their input. I think that they will agree with me that their suggestions were taken into consideration. Most of them were included in the amended bill. We have listened to the families and we've listened to our partners in this mission. For instance, we had Christian Horizons, Autism Ontario, Community Living, Reena, OASIS, Family Alliance and the Provincial Network, and they all came with very good suggestions. We have heard people speaking from the opposition.

They are not happy because some of their suggestions were not included. I think most of the suggestions were included.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): Further debate? The member for Caledon—

Ms. Sylvia Jones: Dufferin—Caledon.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): Dufferin—Caledon. Thank you. It's been a long summer.

Ms. Sylvia Jones: I will be sharing my time with my colleague the member from Whitby—Oshawa. We have both participated in the public hearings and the committee process, and it's important that she share her valuable insights into this legislation.

I must begin by saying that while I appreciate the minister's kind words about listening to the opposition, we did put forward 66 amendments in the committee clause-by-clause process, and not one was passed by the government members. It's passing strange that she would say our input was valuable when we made the effort to put forward 66 amendments, only to have them all turned down rather quickly and with very little debate.

Bill 77 has been quite an education for me. I was looking forward to participating in the updating and modernization of the Developmental Services Act. Many of us in this chamber were here when the minister stood during Community Living Day in May to announce her proposed bill. In fact, many of us saw it as an opportunity to make right some of the inequities that individuals with developmental disabilities experience at the hands of our government. Transformation agendas are very powerful words. They imply more than simply change. They convey the need of renewal or a complete makeover.

The Liberal government started this whole process with these two words: "transformation agenda." Families and stakeholders were told that real change was coming. After all, the act had not been rewritten since the 1970s. "Something must be done. We will transform." Expectations were built up. Everyone willingly participated in the consultations. Families thought that this was the opportunity to develop the needed life plan for their children. Then Bill 77 was tabled, and the ministry had not transformed; they had simply tinkered. A new category of service was added in words but not action—no additional funding, no additional supports.

So instead of applause, the Liberal caucus heard concern. "Transformation agenda" had sounded so revolutionary, but Bill 77 only delivered disappointment. Another Liberal promise has been broken. As the concern mounted, the Liberal government response was to speed up the process: "A quick second reading, four days of committee, and we can get this thing done." It didn't matter that there were many more interested in presenting in Toronto than spaces available. People would simply need to travel. After all, you thought the consultation had already occurred.

Unfortunately, during the committee process you did not listen. Our party has heard from families who wanted real change, not just tinkering. They are the ones caring for their children at home and they are the ones we need to support. They gave us good advice during the public hearings, and when my colleagues and I tried to put their feedback into the bill, you defeated each and every one of their 66 suggestions.

Since becoming the Progressive Conservative critic for community and social services, I've had the opportunity to meet with many exceptional individuals, exceptional people who have been working hard to make sure that opportunities exist for their children after they reach the age of 21 and are no longer able to participate in their communities through the school system; families who were truly hoping for some legislation that acknowledged their work in the developmental disability sector and gave them the tools they needed to ensure their children's inclusion in our communities.

I was really very hopeful that by bringing forward this legislation the government had thought through how best to achieve some of the laudable goals that they speak of in their transformation agenda paper, the transformation agenda paper that Ernie Parsons presented to Minister Sandra Pupatello when she was the Minister of Community and Social Services. Instead, I see Bill 77 as a poorly worded, poorly thought-through example of a government that wants to say, "See. We did it. We reformed the Developmental Services Act." But please don't look too closely or you will see the gaping holes from their words to what's in the bill.

The minister speaks of wanting to assist families who chose to have their adult children live with them in the community, but Bill 77 does nothing to assist them in their desire to have lifelong planning included in the legislation. The minister speaks of wanting to assist families who choose to build a plan and hire their own support staff to assist them executing this plan but says nothing about how she intends to fund a program that is wholly inadequate for the number of individuals who wish to access it.

In the last session of this Legislature, during question period, I raised individual examples with the minister about the many families who have spent hundreds and hundreds of hours applying for the Passport funding, only to be told over and over again all across Ontario, "There is no more money to fund Passport." Families are trying to plan and families are frustrated because all the planning in the world isn't going to help them find meaningful engagement for their children as they age out of the school system.

I want to read you an excerpt from one letter I received, because in this chamber I think we can quickly insulate ourselves from the reality of what is happening in our communities and across Ontario and how our decisions truly impact families. This letter is from a father who had a son graduate from the school system in June. Patrick is 20 and has already been told by the school system that he's not welcome to return this fall, even though he does not turn 21 until December. The first door has been slammed shut.

Then, because his father says staying home is simply not an option for Patrick's parents, he's trying to prepare Patrick for his future. Patrick's family began the process to apply for the Passport initiative. Actually, they were encouraged to apply for the Passport initiative. I don't know how many members of this chamber have received the forms necessary to complete a Passport application, but I can tell you it would be well worth your time to do so. The application is cumbersome, it is detailed and it is not a quick read.

These applications are incredibly time-consuming for the family and detailed in the information they expect families to put together. Only after all of the hurdles were passed was there any indication that no new funding had been allocated for Passport—another door shut for Patrick.

Please keep in mind that this is one family that has been proactively working to ensure that their son has not been left out in the cold with no opportunity to be part of his community. In the words of Patrick's father, "I can't believe this is true—that the government would create a brand new process (no doubt costly) and provincial application for day supports and tell families about it, get our hopes [up] and then not provide funding for it!" Well, believe it. It is exactly what has happened. Family Alliance Ontario has released figures that 2,890 families applied for Passport funding and only 254 received it.

With all due respect, I cannot think of another program where you would encourage families to apply, knowing full well that the chances of them actually receiving any funds is so poor. Talk about setting someone up for failure.

I could tell you many more stories about many more Patricks. As one mother described it to me, she has a daughter who is surfing the sofa because she cannot find opportunities in her community and her Passport application has been put into the "No funding available" file. It is dishonest for this government to encourage families to apply for Passports knowing that they have to and that there's no money in the fund. I cannot imagine why they thought they would get away with setting up a program with great fanfare, only to have it die on the vine because they won't fund it adequately.

My understanding is that there are today over 3,000 families waiting for Passport funding—3,000 adult children sitting at home, surfing the sofa, waiting for this government to stop talking and actually fund a program that families want and families need.

The public hearings on Bill 77 were very useful to me. I was impressed with the level of consensus that came from the presenters. We heard from organizations, from workers in the developmental disability sector, from family members struggling to work under the existing inadequate system and individuals living with the nightmare of no services and no action from this government. So many presenters spoke of their concern that the application centres would simply become another barrier to service. So what does this government do? They rename them "application entities." That's not responding to the concerns.

Throwing out a new name is an insult to the people who raised their concerns that application centres would end up being another hurdle, another barrier for inadequate services.

Person-directed planning was another request that families and organizations wanted included in this legislation—person-directed planning that would allow individuals their circle of support, to work through what was the best way to ensure an individual's inclusion in our communities. Person-directed planning has been happening across Ontario for years. Individualized plans showed people's desire to have an ordinary life living in the community. It's not about which bed is available in which group home, which day program is available in which community. It's a desire for true inclusion, true community engagement, not filling the few spots and beds that are available.

There is an excellent study prepared by John Lord that shows individualized funding has many benefits, but specifically highlights the need for planning to ensure its success. If I was a cynical person, I might question whether this government is trying to make the Passport initiative program fail, because they're not prepared to fund it adequately or legislate the need for individualized planning. Once again, the Liberal government added the words "person-directed funding" into the legislation but didn't explain how it would work or who would pay for it.

We need to keep in mind that for the vast majority of individuals living with a developmental disability, these are very real issues that they deal with every day. Eighty per cent of individuals living with developmental disabilities do so with the support of their families, not government. As legislators, we need to start figuring out how to help these families thrive, not simply survive. Let's come up with some proactive, family-friendly—to borrow a phrase—policies that can actually make life better for individuals living in Ontario, and better for all Ontarians. Everyone benefits.

I was interested in something I read recently that said, "Organizations whose workforces mirror the communities are better positioned to understand the needs of their customers…. Studies show that when employees with disabilities are hired, there is a corresponding increase in worker morale, teamwork and employee satisfaction that correlates with better product and service quality." There's no mention in Bill 77 of how we can link or connect to the community. If we've got this legislation right, it's not only the individuals and families who are going to benefit, it is all of us.

I'd now like to specifically raise a few of the issues that my colleague from Whitby—Oshawa and I raised in committee and were shot down, for lack of a better word—voted down very quickly without debate. One of the sections refers to waiting lists—it has been raised already, but I think it's important to point it out again. In Bill 77, there is a

section that says, "A funding entity may establish waiting lists for services and supports provided by service agencies under this act and for direct funding and shall manage those lists in accordance with any applicable policy directives." Based on what I'm hearing from the Family Alliance organization, that waiting list is already going to have 2,000 people on it only for the Passport funding. I can't imagine what it's going to be for group home beds and day program supports. They are instituting waiting lists in Bill 77 when the reality is that the waiting lists are what need to be solved, not the wording in Bill 77.

The second issue I'd like to talk about, which has not been raised, is that we heard from a number of individuals living in group homes who are very concerned about a

section in the bill that deals with what I'll call warrantless entry—inspections without warrant. It essentially will allow ministry staff to walk into their homes without any agreement on their part. I'll read the pertinent section: "An inspector may carry out an inspection under this act in order to determine if a service agency, an application entity or a funding entity is complying with this act, the regulations.…

"Subject to subsection (3), at any reasonable time, an inspector may, without warrant and in accordance with the prescribed criteria, enter premises that are owned or operated by a service agency, an application entity or a funding entity in order to carry out an inspection."

I, and members of the Progressive Conservative Party, have a real problem when we are making a second class of citizens. I have the ability to refuse entry to my home, yet we are saying to people who have developmental disabilities, "You are not going to be afforded the same rights and courtesies as the rest of society." I would like to highlight subsection 143(2) in the Long-Term Care Homes Act: "No inspector shall enter a place that is not in a long-term-care home and that is being used as a dwelling, except with the consent of the occupier of the place or under the authority of a warrant."

If it's good enough for us in the general population, if it's good enough for individuals who live in long-term-care facilities, why isn't it good enough for people who are living in group homes? These are their homes, and they should be afforded the same rights and courtesies as the rest of society.

The last point I would like to raise deals with regulations. There has been a lot of discussion with Bill 77, and quite frankly with many of the bills that have come forward recently, about how much is left to regulation, how the bills themselves speak in very general, generic language and the proof is in the pudding, as they say, when you get to the regulation stage, where of course there is no clause-by-clause and there are no public hearings.

There are a myriad of regulations that will be put in place to go with Bill 77. Just looking at the end of the act, there are 17 sections, and of course each

section could have a number of different regulations, where regulations will be put in place after the fact. So after we've debated it, after we've had our public hearings, then the cabinet is going to be making the detailed decisions about how Bill 77 will be implemented. While I would acknowledge, after a lot of pressure from groups concerned about how much is left to regulation, the ministry has now said that they will post the regulations, there is no obligation on behalf of the ministry to justify what those regulations will be and why they're bringing them forward. Yes, they've agreed to post them on the site.

For anyone who is interested in this sector, I would encourage you to monitor that quite closely because it is something that may not happen all at once; they'll trickle them out over months and years. It is a great concern to me that we in this chamber, as legislators, are expected to vote on Bill 77 and yet we do not have the detail that is really needed because so much of it has been left to regulation. I know I've spoken of my concerns with how this government is using regulations as a backdoor way of passing legislation and getting the detail in, but I think it's important to raise it in the context of Bill 77 because so much of it has been there.

I think I will wrap up with that, but I would like to very much thank all of the families, the organizations and the communities. When I did those four days of public hearings, it impressed me to no end how much detail, how much studying they had done of the bill before they presented. Keep in mind, these were five-minute presentations, so they were able to dissect the bill and highlight the issues that were of concern to them very quickly.

Another thing that I think we should remember: If you look at the presentations and if you look at the written submissions that were brought to the committee, there is a very consistent theme throughout. This is not a case of the workers wanting something very different from the families, who wanted something very different from the organizations. There is without a doubt a theme of people who had a true desire to have Bill 77 be more than just words. They wanted the action behind it. I would submit to you that we haven't achieved it with Bill 77.

On that note, I will pass the debate on to my capable colleague from Whitby—Oshawa.

Mrs. Christine Elliott: Thank you to my colleague the member from Dufferin—Caledon for sharing her time with me on this important piece of legislation, which, in my view, had the potential to become one of the most transformative and important pieces of legislation that we've had the opportunity to deal with in this Legislature in a very long time, and certainly during my time in the Legislature.

I say "had the potential" because, to the tremendous disappointment of many groups and individuals, including myself, Bill 77 has failed to set out the framework to achieve the transformation of the developmental services sector that the minister touted during the introduction of the bill last May.

It's true that in providing for direct funding of services and supports for people with developmental disabilities and their families, Bill 77 provides for a range of options besides the traditional group home. I applaud this initiative being taken by the minister, and certainly the time had come for us to deal with that because the Developmental Services Act was badly out of date with life in the 21st century. It hadn't been improved since 1974 and reflected a view of people with developmental disabilities rooted in the past.

At the hearings before the social policy committee, many families told us that they wanted to either keep their children at home with them, with supports, or wanted to be able to plan as independent a life for them in their community as possible. Clearly, significant amendments to the Developmental Services Act were going to be necessary in order to achieve those goals. But whatever choice is to be made, whether to choose a group home, whether to live at home with supports or live independently in the community, it all takes money.

We heard from many individuals and groups as we travelled with the social policy committee from Toronto to London, to Timmins and to Ottawa. Virtually, to a person, all of the presenters stated that this bill was going to be doomed to failure without a massive influx of funds into this sector. One parent actually told us that the parents over the years had saved the government hundreds of millions of dollars because they had kept their children at home and cared for them and never asked for anything, and I believe this to be true.

But we also heard from many of the parents that they were growing older; many were no longer able to care for their children at home, and it was time for the government to come to their assistance.

There was one woman in particular who stood out in my mind. She was probably around 75 years old, and she was literally in tears as she was describing what her life was like caring for her now middle-aged daughter in an old farmhouse in a rural area. Her husband was now disabled because of years of hard work, farming. Between them, they had cared for her daughter. She was crying as she told us about the tremendous strain, both emotional and physical, it had taken on her. And it wasn't because she begrudged her life.

It was more that she was really, truly frightened about what was going to happen to her child in the future, when she and her husband were gone. She was concerned about where she would live, but more important than that, who was going to love and care for her daughter. I think that's what this bill was meant to be all about. In my view, this question remains outstanding, and that, in my opinion, is why Bill 77 remains fundamentally flawed.

When she introduced the bill in this Legislature on May 15, the minister stated, "If this bill is passed, we will be able to look back and say, 'We took a giant step forward in building stronger and more inclusive communities for all Ontarians.'" Sadly, Bill 77 takes only a small step forward and fails to establish the framework necessary for full inclusion in our communities.

Many people at the committee noted that people with an intellectual disability had very few social, recreational and vocational opportunities after they turned 21. Most have finished school, and there are still very few employers who are willing to take the time and trouble to train and assist people with a developmental disability. Moreover, there are significant restrictions on the amount that people with a developmental disability can earn if they are able to secure employment because of the restrictions placed on them by the Ontario disability support program.

Many people reported that their children's lives were very isolated and that they spent their days watching television, sitting on the couch, because they were unable to access the Passport funding which would allow them access to community supports. My colleague has spoken quite extensively about the lack of money available for Passport funding, and while it was touted as being a great solution and certainly has the ability to do that, it's so hugely underfunded that all it ended up doing was allowing a few people supports in the community. But it almost pitted parent against parent because it was like a lottery as to who was going to get to be chosen to receive the Passport funding.

Bill 77 was supposed to change that. It was supposed to get people off the couch and into the community. It was supposed to shift the paradigm to focus on abilities and not disabilities and to achieve the goals of independence and acceptance. But it does not, and that, to me, is a great pity, given the enormous opportunity presented by this bill.

In my view, there are three principal reasons why Bill 77 has failed to meet its goal. First, as has been noted by several members, the bill fails to set out its guiding principles in a

preamble or purpose clause. In failing to accept the many recommendations in support of such a clause, the government members stated in the clause-by-clause review at committee that it was unnecessary because the bill itself demonstrated the inclusion of people with developmental disabilities, and so no more really needed to be said. Yet when we in the Progressive Conservative Party attempted to introduce an amendment that would have changed the

short title of the bill to the "Services and supports to promote the inclusion of persons with developmental disabilities act," we were advised by legislative counsel that this absolutely could not be done, because nowhere was inclusion mentioned in the body of the act—so much for wanting to achieve inclusion. It wasn't even mentioned, and therefore the title couldn't be changed.

Nonetheless, the government pushed through an amendment that changed the name to the Services and Supports to Promote the Social Inclusion of Persons with Developmental Disabilities Act, 2008. So we have a bill that mentions inclusion—one of its purported fundamental goals—only in its

short title.

It's significant to note that at least 25 individuals and organizations spoke quite passionately at committee about the need to include a

preamble or purpose clause in Bill 77. And I would like to take a moment to quote from a few of the presenters. Family Alliance Ontario, through Ms. Cathy Calligan and Ms. Janice Strickland, made a compelling presentation to the social policy committee in London, Ontario, on August 6. They stated that Family Alliance Ontario feels that this legislation in its current form lacks philosophy and is wide open to

interpretation. A

preamble is needed to document the spirit and intent of this legislation. A

preamble would serve as a compass pointing the Ministry of Community and Social Services towards its stated goal and would ensure that the legislation and its ensuing regulations achieve the intent of the values and principles in Opportunities and Action. This

preamble should clearly state the intention to move from historical approaches such as services and programs to inclusion and valued lives in the community.

Similarly, Community Living Ontario, in its response to the amendments to Bill 77, stated:

"It is when we consider the United Nations Convention"—which I would like to come back to in a moment—"that we see most clearly the opportunity that has been missed by not including a

preamble or purpose clause in the legislation. The supports and services available through this act can provide practical mechanisms for ensuring that people who have an intellectual disability have access to all elements of society, including education, health, transportation, justice systems and other parts of society. The legislation as it is drafted, without a

preamble, could result in a range of outcomes. It could simply result in a future that looks much like the present (without large institutions, of course), or the legislation could help to facilitate the kind of future envisioned by the UN convention, one in which people who have an intellectual disability are supported to live autonomous lives and enjoy their rights as full citizens in our society. A

preamble to the legislation would have gone a long way to describing and pointing the way to that future. We remain optimistic that we through our collective efforts will achieve such a future, but we are saddened that the opportunity was lost to boldly spell out our intention within the legislation."

Clearly, the addition of a

preamble or purpose clause was seen by many as an important element to Bill 77, an important element that unfortunately the government chose to ignore.

The second reason, in my view, that Bill 77 has failed to meet its goal is its failure to honour the principles established by the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, which came into effect on May 3, 2008. Canada has yet to ratify this agreement, and therefore it's not binding on either our country or our province, yet it sets out a bold vision that should not have been discounted. The general principles of the convention are:

"(

a) Respect for inherent dignity, individual autonomy including the freedom to make one's own choices, and independence of persons;

"(

b) Non-discrimination;

"(

c) Full and effective participation and inclusion in society;

"(

d) Respect for difference and acceptance of persons with disabilities as part of human diversity and humanity;

"(

e) Equality of opportunity;

"(

g) Equality between men and women;

"(

h) Respect for the evolving capacities of children with disabilities and respect for the right of children with disabilities to preserve their identities."

More particularly,

article 12 deals with the principle of equal recognition before the law and states that persons with disabilities have the right to recognition everywhere as persons before the law, enjoy legal capacity on an equal basis with others in all aspects of life, and that all parties supporting the convention "shall take appropriate measures to provide access by persons with disabilities to the support they may require in exercising their legal capacity."

Mr. Speaker, 23 presenters at committee spoke about the need for the bill to include the concept of supported decision-making in the context of the UN convention and, though the amended bill mentions the need to confer with the individual and their family members about their wishes for their life, little more than lip service is paid to this concept.

Supported decision-making permits persons with disabilities to exercise their legal capacity to make decisions to the fullest extent possible. A Handbook for Parliamentarians on the UN convention says this: "With supported decision-making, the presumption is always in favour of the person with a disability who will be affected by the decision. The individual is the decision-maker; the support person(

s) explain(

s) the issues, when necessary, and interpret(

s) the signs and preferences of the individual.

"Even when an individual with a disability requires total support, the support person(

s) should enable the individual to exercise his/her legal capacity to the greatest extent possible, according to the wishes of the individual."

One of the most poignant presentations made to the committee was by a group of representatives from an organization called People First of Ontario, which is a province-wide organization made up of and run by people who have been labelled with a developmental disability. The representatives stated that one of the most important things People First does is to assist people who are labelled to have a voice and be heard. They reminded the committee: "The government really needs to remember we are the ones directly affected by the proposed changes to this act.

At the end of the day, government people and agency staff go home to a life that they have tried to make good. We go home to what we have been able to get. The more this act and the government of Ontario begin to see us as individuals who want to live in the community with proper supports, the better that home and life will be."

Unfortunately, the individual's involvement in decision-making seems to have been largely overlooked in this bill.

The third key element for success in achieving inclusion that was missed in Bill 77 is that of person-directed planning. Here, a full 36 presenters commented at committee about the need to include person-directed planning as a funded element in the act. Many of the presenters, which included family members of persons with a developmental disability, commented that independent planning assistance was necessary, particularly in the context of direct or individualized funding, in order for them and their family members to understand simply what supports were out in the community for them to access.

More than once we heard that the daily demands upon family members were so significant that they simply were overwhelmed by having to deal with making a plan for their family member. As much as they wanted to do so and felt that it was necessary, they simply didn't know and couldn't deal with it.

To some extent, the government heard what the presenters were saying and included a provision allowing for some funded planning supports. However, in the words of Community Living Ontario, "The amendments did not, however, make planning an entitlement for all people who are determined eligible for services and supports, which we had called for. The amendment also did not specify that planning would be available to a person prior to applying for services in order to assist the person to complete an application in an informed fashion," although they hoped that this could be addressed through regulation and policy.

We in the PC Party are not so hopeful. In our view, the concept of person-directed planning to assist in the development of a life plan for the individual is essential and should have been featured prominently in the legislation and not simply included as an afterthought. It is the key to the success of the so-called transformation of developmental services as it focuses on the needs of the individual and is the bridge between the individual and the community that brings about true inclusion.

One presenter, Ms. Sherri Kroll, who is the director of organizational development with Middlesex Community Living in Strathroy, made the case most eloquently when she stated, "The entire system envisioned by Bill 77 can only have integrity if persons seeking support services under the new legislation are clear about what it is they wish to apply for. Without that, they will face the same situation that has prevailed down through the years; namely, they will be offered services from a list that has been identified by someone else as appropriate in general terms for an entire population.

People need supports that are uniquely appropriate to their personal needs at a particular stage of their lives. True person-directed planning looks not only at supports that may be accessed under the provisions of this legislation, but also at supports that are available in the context of the individual's family, community and natural supports, which can often be accessed without government funding or other intervention."

Indeed, one of the independent planning groups spoke quite passionately about this at committee, the group that was referred to earlier called Families for a Secure Future, which spoke about building circles of support around the individuals and their families that were both paid and unpaid circles. This support would assist in integrating the individual truly into the community and would continue for the individual's lifetime, which gave great comfort to the family members, particularly the parents, because that, of course, is one of their greatest fears: What will happen to my child after I've left?

Through planning supports such as this, which is more than just the coordination of service agencies—and when I say this, I appreciate very much the work that has been done and the passion that the presenters from the community organizations brought forward, groups like Family Alliance Ontario, Community Living and all of the ad hoc groups that have gotten together to bring about the best supports that they can for the people in their community. They have done a wonderful job, but they need to have more help.

I know that they want to help achieve this inclusionary piece, but there's a huge, big planning component there that really has been overlooked and really needs to be included in this legislation. To me, it's the linchpin of success, and that's what brings the individual into the community and achieves the reverse effect: It allows members of the community to be more aware of, and compassionate about, the needs of the individual and the communities. So it helps the individual, but to my mind, it helps the community so much more because it makes all of us such better people as a result.

But it's very unfortunate that the government failed to see the significance of these planning supports, and although they're mentioned, they are not really given the importance and the pre-eminence in the legislation that they deserve.

I'd like to close my comments by quoting a recent

article by Mr. Ian Brown that was written for the Globe and Mail. The

article appeared in the newspaper on September 6 of this year and was about Jean Vanier, who, many members will know, is the founder of L'Arche. L'Arche was founded over 44 years ago and is based on the principles of inclusion. All those years ago, Jean Vanier bought a house for himself to live in, along with two profoundly developmentally delayed men, with no other plan than to live together, travel and have fun. Little did he know at the time he started L'Arche that it would some day become an international movement that is the very embodiment of inclusion. In any event, the

article starts with the following:

"Everybody with a seriously handicapped person in their life knows this fantasy. The fantasy is a place, somewhere the handicapped person will be able to live and be cared for, not as someone handicapped but as a participating member of the world for as long as they survive.

"It's a fantasy, but a compelling one.

"In the fantasy, there are no run-down group homes on the edges of cities, out where the housing is cheap but not exactly uplifting, where there are always too many extension cords shaking across the floor.

"Instead, in the fantasy, there are communities of people, preferably in the country or perhaps by the sea, living in gorgeous, architected houses because (fantasy thinking goes) the handicapped have so few satisfactions, don't they deserve to live in a beautiful place as much as any of us?

"Another thing about the fantasy is that there are no distinctions between the handicapped and the professional social workers who care for them, between the normal and the broken, no wall between Them and Us.

"They are simply people who live together and they help each other. The workers do the physical work, the handicapped do the work of the heart."

That's indeed a compelling vision, but I very much regret to say that I don't believe this vision can be achieved through Bill 77. Therefore, unfortunately, I cannot support it.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): Questions and comments?

M me France Gélinas: It's a pleasure to answer to the comments made by the honourable member from Dufferin—Caledon and the honourable member from Whitby—Oshawa.

The member from Dufferin—Caledon started by mentioning that her party had presented 66 amendments to the bill in clause-by-clause, and although the member of the government mentioned that they appreciated the feedback, they accepted zero of their amendments. For the New Democrats, we presented 32 amendments to this act and two of them were accepted. I guess this is a little bit of feedback, but very little.

Du côté des néo-démocrates, le projet de loi 77, Loi visant à prévoir des services pour les personnes ayant une déficience intellectuelle, est un projet de loi important pour nous. Les services aux personnes ayant des déficiences intellectuelles en ce moment sont défaillants. Groupe après groupe est venu devant le comité cet été pour dire que ces personnes n'ont pas les ressources suffisantes pour pouvoir vivre en communauté et pouvoir faire vraiment

partie des communautés. Donc on aurait aimé, avec les 32 modifications que nous avons proposées, renforcer le projet de loi pour vraiment aller au cœur des demandes des gens qui vivent avec des déficiences intellectuelles.

People after people who came to present clearly made the case that the funding for people with developmental disabilities is inadequate. This bill had an opportunity to change things, but right now it contains very little.

Ms. Laurel C. Broten: I want to highlight in the few moments that I have the importance of the steps that this government is taking. The current Developmental Services Act is almost 35 years old. Those who sit on the opposite benches in this House governed this province for many of those 35 years, and they chose not to make it a priority to overhaul or update this legislation. I say to Ontarians: We have. We have made it a priority to modernize the developmental services system, to improve the services, to increase choice, to improve fairness, to update the language that we use, amongst many other changes that are rooted in this very important piece of legislation.

It's a piece of legislation that's moved forward under the leadership of our minister, Madame Meilleur, and her parliamentary assistant, Khalil Ramal, who have been working actively with those in this community to engage them, to seek their advice, to solicit their comments, to make sure that this new bill reflected the reality of their lives. We spoke to the people of Ontario, we listened to them and we made many changes to the bill at their request.

Parties opposite have talked this morning about 66 amendments coming forward. I think it's important for Ontarians to understand that that is not 66 concepts or 66 ideas, but 66 words—because ideas flow, and legislation, if anybody's ever picked up a bill, knows that they're not user-friendly in the way that we draft legislation. But ultimately, this bill is about moving the developmental services sector forward, to help families that we all meet with in our constituency offices every day. It has the support of the members on this side of the House.

We will continue to work with those families to make sure that further changes are put in place. This bill will help set the foundation so that we can continue to do the important work that needs to be done in this sector.

Mrs. Joyce Savoline: I want to congratulate everyone who worked on this bill. It's a hugely important subject; the folks who are actually challenged with going through life in a challenged way need advocates. So I congratulate everybody who worked on the bill and tried to make it as good as possible.

However, I really believe that what we have here is an opportunity lost. We had a good start, and we had people who have had experience, who live with issues every day, who were generous enough and courageous enough to come and present before the committee, present ideas from their own personal opinions, their own personal experiences, with heart and with passion. Unfortunately, it fell mostly on deaf ears with the government members of that committee.

It's unfortunate because once this opportunity passes, it will be quite some time before it can be resurrected and some meaningful changes put into the bill that really work for people.

So this isn't about photo ops; this isn't about taking glory in a campaign pamphlet. This is about people who live every day of their lives in a challenged situation. They thought they were coming here to this House to contribute, and the door was shut for them. It was nothing but words, and I am very sorry for that. I have to go back to my community, as do many others, to say yes, we had an opportunity but the opportunity was lost.

Mr. Khalil Ramal: I was listening carefully to the members from Dufferin—Caledon and Whitby—Oshawa speaking on this bill.

First, I want to thank them very much for their ideas and their input on this bill during the consultation process across the province of Ontario. But it's unfair to say we don't listen. We listened to many different stakeholders; we listened to families; we listened to people with disabilities. They told us many different things and they advised us.

After we came back to discuss it through the clause-by-clause, we made a lot of changes to reflect their needs, their suggestions and their ideas. We talked about application centres. People said application centres weren't a good idea. We changed it to a different system—entities, two entities, one for processing the application and another one to decide the funding, because we thought it was very important to make people accountable and make it a transparent issue.

We talked about inspections, and many people came and told us they needed inspection because they wanted their loved ones to be protected; they don't want them to be subjected to abuse. All of these elements were addressed through the bill, through our consultations when the people came to us and spoke many different times.

Talking about the details in the regulations, as you know, all the bills come before this House. It's impossible for all the bills to include all the details. That's why we decided to talk about the general ideas and the principles. When we go back to the civil servants and the follow-up, and they put in all the regulations, in consultation with the stakeholders—and I hope many of the stakeholders who presented to us during the consultations come forward and support our ministry to put in the regulations they think are important to strengthen this bill.

In the end, this bill is about people. It's about people with disabilities; it's about their families, who will care for their loved ones for many years. We want to give them the choice, the choice they need, the choice they think is important for them and for their families.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): Response?

Ms. Sylvia Jones: I'm very happy that the member from Whitby—Oshawa ended by talking about Jean Vanier, because to me, if we lose sight of why we're debating Bill 77, and why we're trying to improve the developmental disability sector, then we're all here for the wrong reason. Thank you for your comments, the members from Nickel Belt, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, London—Fanshawe, and my seatmate from Burlington.

While I am obviously disappointed that 66 Progressive Conservative amendments were voted down in committee, I should clarify by saying they weren't 66 Progressive Conservative amendments. These were amendments that were brought forward by organizations like Community Living, OASIS, People First—families who have been living in the sector and trying to work within the existing rules for 10 or 20 years.

So while they went under our banner, they were certainly not our ideas. I and my colleague from Whitby—Oshawa worked very hard to try to translate what we had heard at the committee level into concrete legislative amendments that we felt would bring forward the ideas they had raised. Changing the application centre to an application entity, with all due respect, does not accomplish that goal. Including "person-directed planning" as a phrase without talking about how you're going to fund it and implement it does not achieve that goal. Concerns about entrenching waiting lists are still in the legislation, so I do still have a lot of concerns with it.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): Further debate?

Mr. Michael Prue: It is indeed a privilege to be here today to talk about this bill. As I said earlier this morning, I listened intently to what the minister and parliamentary assistant had to say and I have to commend them for the language, for the hope that was conveyed, but I think there's a whole lot more that needs to be said about this bill. I don't think I could say it any better than one of the deputants had to say on the very first day of public hearings in Toronto. He encapsulated in terse and correct language exactly what the community is expecting, and I would like to quote him verbatim.

His name is Mr. Ronald Pruessen, and I take this from the Hansard of that day of the committee. He is from the group known as Opportunities Mississauga for 21 Plus—in abbreviated short form, OM21.

"It is a wonderful thing that you have worked with families and agencies to chart a road forward, but it is an achievement that now carries serious responsibilities with it. Do not imagine that the admiration that has been generated by the transformation effort to date will either linger or quietly fade away if words do not translate into deeds. There will almost surely be a whirlwind of disappointment and anger if the government sees the essentially preparatory provisions of Bill 77 as sufficient or if the government believes that the template or shell conceptualized in this bill will allow the transformation effort to quietly come to rest on a back burner.

"Do not imagine, either, that tiny funding increases will allow achievement of a necessarily ambitious vision, especially if minimalist new funding is dedicated primarily to administrative procedures, application centres and the like. If this happens, then the template or the shell that Bill 77 is designed to create will be seen as the set-up for a shell game, and 'shell game' will be a fair and loudly proclaimed label.

"To conclude, we urge the government to continue as it has begun—to continue boldly as it has admirably begun. Take the splendid impulse to transform the services provided to Ontario citizens whose needs and vulnerabilities have been neglected for decades and match fine words with powerful actions."

Mr. Pruessen said what everyone in the community was hoping this bill would do, and he has indeed immense hopes for what I'm sure will happen in the weeks and months that pass after the passage of this bill in the next few days. But he is also mindful of the fact that what has been put forward in this bill is going to require a fundamental shift in government philosophy, especially when it comes to funding.

This is not an inexpensive proposition. This is a proposition that is literally going to have to pay for hundreds or thousands of people if they are to be serviced in the manner this bill envisages. The money is going to have to be found. The support workers are going to have to be found. The training is going to have to be undertaken. The opportunities for families are going to have to suddenly materialize where they have not been found in the past.

I can't state because I don't know, and I think probably no one knows, not even the Premier or the finance minister at this point, whether or not there are going to be opportunities. But we have heard from the finance minister that he intends to make a fall economic statement in about another month, that he is going to come before this House and he is going to explain whether or not the province of Ontario is going to have the resources to continue with the programs that are extant. He is going to tell us at that point whether or not there will be monies or perceived monies for any other initiatives that this government might wish to undertake.

Last week, the Premier talked about another issue. He talked about poverty reduction and how it is his intention at this point to come out with a plan—which has been widely expected, which he promised to have within a year of the last election, which in a couple of weeks will be up—and that poverty plan will indicate the direction that the government is going to take over the course of the rest of its mandate.

However, he also said something on this issue that was very chilling to me and I'm sure will be chilling to the families of people with developmental disabilities; that is, he is not sure that his poverty plan, in terms of implementation, will be able to take place in the current economic climate.

I was not present today—I was here in the House for this debate and as well downstairs at a media conference—but it is reported to me that the Premier was in scrums this morning at the Royal Ontario Museum and he further elaborated on the statement that he made last week, that in fact there is not going to be money for the poverty plan this year. He further elaborated that it is the intention of the government by the end of the year to come up with a plan on poverty but that the implementation may have to wait for times of better economic certainty.

I say that because this is what is going to, I'm afraid, fall to those from Community Living and all of those who have such enormous hope that this legislation will in fact do something. As Mr. Pruessen so correctly identified back when the hearings were taking place, this plan, as well-meaning as it appears on paper, will not do what it is supposed to do and will not live up to the expectations of those in Community Living and the many other wonderful groups unless there are resources to go with it.

Having said that, we await the fall budget statement, and I think everyone should be watching this very carefully to see in fact whether this legislation will be any different than the legislation before. Because without the resources to go with it, it will be impossible to move forward; without the resources that the government needs to commit, the lofty-sounding words of the minister and the parliamentary assistant, quite frankly, cannot come to bear.

The second point that I want to talk about is the entire time of debate and listening to groups across the province and what transpired with the many ideas they had. I listened to my colleague briefly here and then further downstairs in my room in advance of me going to a press conference, and I listened to the frustrations that the Progressive Conservative members had sitting on this committee. I will reiterate: They deserve to be frustrated. They deserve to be frustrated because some 60 of their amendments that were put forward were voted down.

I did not agree with all of their amendments and I voted against some of them as well. But certainly some of them had merit and I did support some of the amendments that they were trying to make, not in a way to delay the bill, not to be dilatory in any way, not in a way that would harm the bill or its grand scheme and its great future, but in a way I thought was intended to make it better. The government chose to vote every one of their amendments down.

I'm not sure how participatory that was towards the Progressive Conservative members and I'm not sure how participatory it was towards the hundred or so deputants who came forward and who were the genesis of the ideas that I saw them try to put forward.

I would commend the government because they did listen to two of my amendments, and I would like to commend the government because I thought those two amendments were crucial to the success of the bill. I'd just like, if I could, for a couple of minutes, to talk about those two amendments and why I support the government on those two amendments for moving forward and how valuable they will be to the families and to those with developmental disabilities.

The first one, and I think the most important one—or perhaps I'll deal with the least important or the less important one. It was a notice that will be put up in agencies so that people with developmental disabilities and their families will see what is expected of those agencies—a sort of code of conduct, if you will, that will be put on the walls so that people will know what to expect from the agency, will know what to do if they are not being treated properly, will know of the right of redress and the right of appeal, will know how to take the case further up the line. That will be posted prominently in all offices and all office spaces and will be available to all.

I think this is very important, and I know that in many social institutions, including public housing, you see these same framed documents put on the walls so that the residents who live in those agencies know that if they are not satisfied, they do have redress. I commend the government for including that amendment within the body of the bill.

The second one is the one that I think is more crucial, and quite frankly, it surprised me that the government okayed it, because it is highly unusual. Governments and ministers have the right to make regulations consistent with the passage of the bill. Very often, bills say next to nothing, and all of the meat of the bill, as it were, comes down to regulation. What the government agreed to in the second motion that I put forward was heartening to me.

It certainly showed the government's willingness to go slowly on this matter until people are satisfied with how the bill will unfold, their fears may be assuaged, and that is to allow the regulations to be posted for 45 days for public comment before they're actually implemented.

This is a huge step forward, not only in this bill, but I would hope in future bills as well. But in this bill particularly, it will allow people with developmental disabilities and their families and their caregivers and social agencies that care for them to take a good, hard look at what is going to happen, at how it's going to unfold and how people are going to be better looked after in terms of the bill itself.

Those 45 days will be a time, I guess, of incubation, a time of thought, a time of reflection, so that those who are reading it can come forward to their members of provincial Parliament with any suggestions they may have. There could even possibly be further debate within this House to direct the minister if some of them appear to be onerous or unworkable.

So I would like to take this opportunity, because oftentimes in opposition you criticize government, and that of course is our role. But the government on these two issues at least has got it right. They have got it right by publishing in a prominent place people's rights to complain and to appeal, and they have got it right in terms of the regulation and allowing further public debate within the community that is so desperate to have that debate and really needs that debate.

There are a number of things, though, that I was not happy with—and I'm mindful of the time. Is this a good opportunity or should I continue?

Interjection.

Mr. Michael Prue: One minute? Okay.

I don't know what I can say in one minute, other than to say that what I want to talk about on the next date is the whole issue of the

preamble. I have to state for the record that I was disappointed that the motion made on the

preamble did not carry. The

preamble was requested by some 25 deputants over four cities. It was requested by many written papers that people wanted to see a

preamble to the legislation, a

preamble that is found in many pieces of legislation that the province has promulgated in the past, a

preamble which would set out the rights and duties and obligations, that would allow families to understand how the act is to be interpreted, that would tell social service agencies precisely how they were going to deal with people with whom they work and that could be interpreted by the courts so that there could be no mistake.

The

preamble that we set forward was a 12-point

preamble, and I'm going to spend some time going through that. I have to state for the record, I was extremely disappointed when the government, who agreed with 11 of the 12 points, turned it down. Had they said, "We disagree with the 12th one," I would have gladly withdrawn it. I would gladly have withdrawn that 12th one, but that opportunity was not made available, and a

preamble is essential if this legislation is to be given the weight that is intended. I will continue on the next date. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): The time for debate has ended.

Third reading debate deemed adjourned.

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): We have a number of introductions this morning we would like to make.

On behalf of the member from Willowdale, a number of individuals from Professional Engineers Ontario are here today in the east members' gallery. We welcome Johnny Zuccon, Catherine Karakatanis, Walter Bilanski and Kim Allen.

On behalf of the member from York South—Weston—I just met these students downstairs—we'd like to welcome the grade 5 students from Roselands Junior Public School.

As well, on behalf of page Michael Hyer, we would like to welcome his mother, Margaret Wanlin, who is here in the public galleries today. Welcome to Queen's Park.

MEMBER'S COMMENTS

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Yesterday, the member from Wellington—Halton Hills raised a point of order with respect to a question asked by the member for Kitchener—Conestoga, and whether it amounted to a personal attack on another member of the House. It is true that Speakers have, on numerous occasions, implored members and will continue to implore members not to engage in personal attacks on each other. I have made that plea in the past and will continue to make that plea. By this, the Speaker is referring to remarks that question another member's honesty, integrity or character, or those that are personally offensive or accusatory.

I've had the opportunity to review the Hansard from yesterday, and I do not see that these comments made would fit that classification. Having said that, though, I remind all members that we are in an adversarial business. Temperate language and mutual respect will go a long way to making this the kind of debating chamber the people of the province expect it to be. Thank you.

ORAL QUESTIONS

C. DIFFICILE

Mrs. Elizabeth Witmer: My question is to the Premier. Premier, this past Monday, your health minister, outside this House, said that he supported the Prime Minister's commitment to call an inquiry into the listeriosis outbreak that has killed 17 people. Why, then, will you not call an investigation—not an inquiry—into C. difficile, a deadly infectious disease that has killed more than 500 people in only 22 of Ontario's 157 hospitals? I ask you today, are you prepared to get to the root of the problem and then take swift, decisive and persistent action to ensure no future outbreaks and deaths?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: I appreciate the question. I know that the issue of C. difficile has become something that has received greater prominence. It has been given a great deal of attention by the media, families are concerned about it, and it's only right that my colleague raises this issue.

To give you some sense of the challenge it presents, recently the Atlanta Centers for Disease Control confirmed that C. difficile played a role in 300,000 hospitalizations in the US, and about 5,500 deaths in 2005, which is more than double those numbers in 2000. So it is a real and pressing issue throughout North America.

We believe that we have taken the responsible path forward on this. We've asked an independent expert, Dr. Baker, to give us his best advice, and we intend to follow through on that advice by making information public beginning this Friday.

Mrs. Elizabeth Witmer: Yes, Mr. Premier, it is a very, very serious and deadly infectious disease. However, other countries have taken decisive, swift and persistent action, which you and your government have not. Reporting is a critical first step, but it is not enough because this is only looking forward and not back at the root problem. We don't know how big the problem is. This isn't going to talk about how many deaths there are. You have a duty to protect the public in the province of Ontario.

You've known since the deaths at Peterborough hospital in the fall of 2003, when 17 people died, that there is a problem. When SARS killed 44 people, you screamed for an inquiry, and there was one. We now know of at least 500 deaths, so I ask you today, will you finally commit to an investigation?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: I can't agree with my colleague when she leaves the inference that we've done nothing. She will know that in 2004 we established the Provincial Infectious Diseases Advisory Committee; there have been three separate independent investigations; a coroner's jury has made recommendations; there's been an investigation into the Joseph Brant outbreak; and our own medical expert advisory committee has made recommendations.

Dr. Richard Schabas, the former Chief Medical Officer of Health for Ontario, said, "I'm not sure a public inquiry is necessarily the logical next step. They often make for good theatre but they don't get us where we need to go, which is to address this problem in a vigorous and effective way, and I think largely we already know what the underlying problems are with C. difficile."

That expert committee we established in 2004 has provided significant new advice to our hospitals. I know they're acting on that, and we look forward to making information public as of this writing.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Final supplementary.

Mrs. Elizabeth Witmer: I find it unbelievable that this Premier is so insensitive to the people behind the deaths, the people who died without dignity, the families who are demanding answers and the public that is concerned about this infectious disease which we know is only going to get worse. How can you in good conscience stand here today and deny that the deaths of over 500 people in your publicly funded institutions don't warrant an independent investigation? You are responsible for the hospitals. Surely you know that this is the right thing to do. Why are you stonewalling? Will you commit today to an investigation?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Again, I can't help but agree with Dr. Richard Schabas and his advice.

Mrs. Elizabeth Witmer: A good Liberal.

Hon. Dwight Duncan: Shame on you. Apologize to Dr. Schabas.

Interjections.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: If the honourable member is looking for expert corroboration of Dr. Schabas's opinion, she should also know that the acting Chief Medical Officer of Health for Ontario and the associate deputy chief coroner have both said that further investigation would not offer anything new. We're going to act on the basis of the information received.

One of the things we've done—

Mr. Jim Wilson: Cover up.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: We have 137 new—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): I'd just ask the honourable member for Simcoe—Grey to withdraw his comment, please.

Mr. Jim Wilson: I'm sorry.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: The final point I'll make as we await the publication of that information to which we believe Ontarians are entitled is that we have hired 137 new infection control people working—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you, Premier. New question?

C. DIFFICILE

Mrs. Elizabeth Witmer: To the Premier: It's obvious that the Premier is afraid of what he will find in the past. Premier, on September 15, your Minister of Health told the press that he expected death rates from C. difficile to drop once the infection rates are made public this week. He said that Quebec had a drop in the deaths once it required hospitals to start reporting its rates four years ago.

What your minister is really saying is that in the last four years, the thousands of deaths of people who probably died from C. difficile could have been prevented if your government had only brought in mandatory reporting earlier, as Quebec did. Are you prepared to accept responsibility for these hundreds and thousands of deaths?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: First of all, my heart goes out to all the families which have been affected by the pain and suffering associated with a death or even a sickness caused by C. difficile. It is something that hospitals throughout North America have been grappling with for a long time now. As I said just a moment ago, the Atlanta Centers for Disease Control says that they're looking at 300,000 cases on an annual basis in the United States of America.

Recently, the chief executive of the Association for Professionals in Infection Control and Epidemiology said in May of this year, "This is not a time for alarm, but more a time for educating health professionals to understand this particular pathogen." That is why our PIDAC committee, the Provincial Infectious Diseases Advisory Committee, has put in handwashing guidelines. It seems like a such a simple thing, but it is absolutely essential in preventing the spread of C. difficile.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mrs. Elizabeth Witmer: You refer to what's happening elsewhere in the world. I can tell you that the response in other parts of the world, in other provinces, in North America, has been much different than yours. They have acknowledged that they have a problem and they have taken swift, decisive and persistent action, unlike your government, who just turned a blind eye because you didn't want to deal with the consequences. It's now up to you to give Ontarians a complete picture and a complete plan of action. You can't go forward—you must know that—unless you know what happened in the past.

We're not asking for an inquiry; we're asking for an investigation. Let's look at the root problems, how widespread it is, and let's do what we can to reduce deaths and anything else related to C. difficile in the future.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: I agree with the objective set out by my honourable colleague, but I think it's important that we look to, and rely on, the best experts in these matters. The experts that we hear from, both here in Ontario and from south of the border, indicate that we have a good understanding of C. difficile and the manner in which it is spread, and we need to be much more aggressive in terms of the kinds of guidelines that are in place and in the adoption of those guidelines by doctors and nurses working inside our hospitals.

The next best thing that we can do, of course—the next thing that we could and must do—is to make information public about the incidents of C. difficile in our hospitals, and that's what we plan to do.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Final supplementary.

Mrs. Elizabeth Witmer: Without information about what has happened and what's going on, how can the public have confidence in your government as they move forward? Why won't you give the public the information that they're entitled to? What are you afraid of? They have the right to know. Harper's going to call the inquiry into listeriosis. You demanded the inquiry into SARS. It was provided. We have over 500 deaths in just a fraction of our hospitals and you refuse to take action. There are real people who have suffered—suffered and died without any dignity in those hospital deaths.

Will you, today, ensure that there is an investigation to get to the bottom of what happened in order that we don't repeat it in the future?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Again, I share the objective laid out during the course of these questions by my honourable colleague, but I think it's important for us to rely on the best expert advice that we receive. That advice tells us that we have the information we need. We think one of the most important things that we can now do is make that information available to Ontario families.

I can also say that we're absolutely committed to patient safety, and we think that when you go into a hospital, when you put your mom or a sibling or some relation or a close friend in the hospital, you don't want them to get sick as a result of that experience in the hospital itself. We understand that, and we're going to do everything we can—working with experts, following their very best advice—to limit the incidents of C. difficile, something which is plaguing all hospitals in North America. We think that by making this information public we can go a long way to satisfying concerns.

POVERTY

Mr. Michael Prue: My question is for the Premier. Our economy is in a tailspin. People are losing jobs, welfare rates are soaring, evictions from housing are up and food banks cannot keep up with the demand. Your response, as the leader of this province, has been to tell Ontarians that we need to go slow in addressing poverty, that we can't afford to fully tackle poverty at this time.

Several people living in poverty—Cheryl Duggan, Sharon McPherson, Ken MacLeod and Josephine Grey—are with us today in the gallery. Would the Premier please tell Cheryl, Ken, Sharon and Josephine why the implementation of a poverty strategy is no longer a priority of your government?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: I appreciate the opportunity to speak to this issue, but I can't agree with the premise of my colleague's question. I'm proud to lead the first Ontario government which is making a deliberate and determined effort to reduce poverty, to measure poverty, to reduce it in a measurable way, and to do that by means of a focused strategy. The issue is not whether we do this; the issue is how quickly can we move on this. But we've done many other things in the interim, and I look forward to speaking to those in response to the supplemental questions.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Michael Prue: The Premier talks about a plan with no resources. The Premier's view is that nothing can or should be done to address poverty during economic downturns, and that flies in the face of experts and the lessons of history. Virtually every government in this province, save and except one in the 1995 period, did exactly what we think you should be doing, and that is increase spending on social programs to make sure that the most vulnerable do not fall into the vicious cycle of poverty.

On this side we believe that governments have a moral and economic responsibility to help the vulnerable in difficult times. Has this government assessed the cost of social services, health care and the justice system that will be incurred if your government does not fully move ahead with poverty reduction?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: My colleague makes a very good point, and I hope more and more of us, and Ontarians more broadly speaking, come to understand the connection between poverty, our failure to properly address that and the costs that will be incurred in other areas of government expenditures. He's absolutely right on that score. That's why we put in place an Ontario child benefit, with monthly benefits now flowing to families, supporting 1.3 million kids. That's why we've increased the minimum wage time and time again. It's why we've increased social assistance after it was frozen for so many years.

It's why we're investing in affordable housing, a new dental program and enhancing our student nutrition program in our schools. We've doubled the funding for that. We understand it. We get the connection between investing in poverty and the corresponding reductions and expenditures elsewhere, and that's one of the things in part that has motivated us to keep doing these kinds of things.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Final supplementary?

Mr. Michael Prue: Since the Premier did not adequately answer the question about the cost of poverty, I'll try to give him some help. A 2007 report by a leading US economist found that the impact of child poverty in the United States costs that country $500 billion a year. If you use the math and figure the number of people in Ontario, that would translate to about $22 billion a year.

Would the Premier please explain why he is backing off on addressing poverty when doing so could reasonably be expected to cost this province $22 billion in an already faltering Ontario economy?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Again, I accept the premise of this particular question, which is that it's a matter of enlightened self-interest, both for our personal sake and the sake of our economy, that we find more ways, working together, to support families that are struggling in poverty.

There's something that I like to think is exciting taking place in the province of Ontario. It's being led by Minister Deb Matthews. We've been consulting Ontarians. At the end of this year, we want to put out a plan, the first of its kind in Ontario's history, that properly defines poverty, puts in place specific ways to measure it, puts in place specific targets, and puts in place a specific strategy for us to achieve those targets, together with regular accountability so people will know whether we're making success or not. That has never happened before. We're prepared to take this on.

We understand there are some challenges associated with the economy, but we will move forward on this issue.

POVERTY

Mr. Michael Prue: Again, back to the Premier. This government has said that it wants to hear from Ontarians about poverty. In fact, you held some roundtables across the province. You invited people to participate in those roundtables, or to submit letters and respond to your website survey. Thousands of Ontarians have made a great effort to have their voices heard. They trusted that you would take their views seriously. In fact, in the last election you promised to take it seriously and have a report within one year of that election.

Why will you not commit today to release your comprehensive report on what you have heard—so many Ontarians know their views—and have taken into account in your scaled-back poverty plan?

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): To the Minister of Children and Youth Services.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I want to take this opportunity to thank the thousands and thousands of people across this province who participated in this poverty reduction consultation. From one end of the province to the other, people living in poverty, people in the business community and the faith communities and social services—the whole province got together and started talking about solutions. I want to take this opportunity to say thank you to the members from all sides of the House who convened groups in their ridings to start to talk constructively about poverty reduction. It has been an extraordinary process.

We are working very hard to meet the deadline and to report back by the end of the year.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary.

Mr. Michael Prue: Back to the minister: I have a difficult time understanding why this government refuses to publicly report on what they have heard from Ontarians about poverty. You promised it within a year, and now you're talking about the end of the year and possibly next year. Perhaps the plan does not address most of Ontarians' concerns. You cannot hide this from Ontarians. Poverty Watch Ontario has reported on government and community consultations. The 25 in 5: Network for Poverty Reduction—145 organizations—has issued a report.

And today we have filed our own report in the timeline that we promised to do: when the Legislature returned. We listened to over 400 people. All of these reports call for the same things: a poverty-proof minimum wage, social assistance rates that cover basic needs, and an adequate supply of affordable housing. Why won't this government listen to the voices of low-income people and move ahead now?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I have to say I am a bit confused. Our commitment was to report by the end of the year and we are on track to do that. As I said, we have heard from thousands of people. We have reviewed hundreds of submissions. We are working very hard to actually develop the strategy that will be complete by the end of the year. I look forward to a fulsome discussion at that time.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Final supplementary.

Mr. Michael Prue: This government has resources and should have done this a long time ago. If our little party can do it, then you should be able to do it with the legion of people that work for you. Ontarians are demanding the following: a minimum wage of $10.25 an hour—now. They are demanding a full Ontario child benefit—now. They are demanding an expert committee to ensure that social assistance rates cover basic costs of living—now. They are demanding a commitment of 7,000 new units of affordable housing a year—now. Why won't this government admit that inaction solves nothing, and go forward with these plans immediately? The people are hungry. The people are in need.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I think it's only fair to acknowledge that actually developing a comprehensive poverty reduction strategy is much more than just compiling a list of suggestions that people have made. We are working very hard to create a fair, balanced and aggressive—but doable—poverty reduction strategy that will create opportunities for people, that will break the cycle of poverty, that will make sure that every child in this province has the opportunity to be the very best they can be regardless of the income of their parents.

The Speaker: New question. The leader of the official opposition.

YOUTH CRIME

Mr. Robert W. Runciman: My question is for the Attorney General. Yesterday the member for Whitby—Oshawa asked the minister a serious question regarding Prime Minister Harper's proposals to strengthen the Youth Criminal Justice Act in the face of an alarming number of violent crimes being committed by young offenders. Victims' groups and others have lauded the proposals, yet you chose to attack the questioner and dump all over the announcement.

In the midst of a violent youth crime wave, Minister, why are you playing politics with this issue?

Hon. Christopher Bentley: The Leader of the Opposition asks a question about a Conservative platform in the federal election, and he talks about politics. Well, let's talk about the crime prevention agenda that will keep Ontarians safe.

Number one, live up to your promise, Mr. Harper, to put 2,500 police officers on the streets of Canada. You're only 40% there, and then for five years. What do you want us to do? Fire them after five years? What about a ban on handguns across this country? Why won't you take the guns out of the hands of those who misuse them? What are you trying to train, a province full of Olympic target shooters? I think it's time you got serious with the issues that affect Ontarians. I think it's time you stood up for all Ontarians and helped us keep our communities safe.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary.

Mr. Robert W. Runciman: That act in the face of an unprecedented number of shootings by youth in Toronto in the last two weeks: The Attorney General's attitude and approach is an insult to all Ontarians, but especially victims of crime. Listen to victims.

Joe Wamback of the Canadian Crime Victims Foundation: "Harper's plan sends a strong message to violent young offenders that there's consequences to their actions." Moonie Ali, a director of Toronto Crime Stoppers: "Let Chris Bentley put himself in my position. If he was a father directly impacted by crime, he would not be against these changes."

Will the Attorney General stop playing politics like he did in his first response with this critically important public issue?

Hon. Christopher Bentley: The Leader of the Opposition sees a future in which he will continually be speaking to victims of crime; I see a future in which there are no victims of crime because we keep our communities safe. I see a future where we support the work we've always undertaken to put more police officers on the streets. Why won't he stand up for the people of Ontario and get Harper to put more police officers on the streets?

I see a future in which we support the work of the guns and gangs task force. Why won't he support the work of the guns and gangs task force? I support the work of Chief Blair, Chief Faulkner, Chief Davidson, the chiefs of the province of Ontario, who are working hard every single day to keep our communities safe.

Why won't the Leader of the Opposition and the Conservatives stand up for the police officers who stand up for Ontarians? It's time you stood up for the people of this province.

CHILD POVERTY

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is for the Premier. When 12.6% of Ontario's children—345,000 of our youngsters—live below the poverty line, when child poverty has increased 2.3% over the past five years in good economic times in this province, how is it that the McGuinty government can abandon the issue of child poverty reduction?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: To the Minister of Children and Youth Services.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I would just say I'm a bit nonplussed by this question given that this past July the first Ontario child benefit cheques started to be delivered to families across the province. It's a benefit of $600 per child per family, and that's going to grow until it reaches $1,100 per child per year.

We are making a measurable difference in child poverty right now, but we are saying that's not enough. That is why we are developing a comprehensive poverty reduction strategy that will ensure every child has the opportunity to be the very best they can be.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Back to the Premier: This government knows darned well that their child benefit does not replace the national child benefit clawback that they took away from kids for so many years, and they've also taken back the back-to-school allowance, as well as the winter clothing allowance. You know darned well that families are suffering as a result of the failed policies of this government.

We had ministers trotting around the province all summer long pretending that there's a plan in the works, that it's imminent, that child poverty reduction is going to be coming soon and that these stakeholders that they've been talking to are going to see a real plan be implemented. Here today we know that that's not the case. How is it that this government can now turn to the plea of their own poverty and go back on the fight on child poverty that they were committed to for so many years?

It's all just a sham, and this government knows very well that they're not doing what they need to do to take care of those 345,000 children living in poverty, whose futures are being devastated by this government.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Minister?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I'm going to take this opportunity to talk a little bit about the Ontario child benefit. I think it's very important that every member of this House understand that the Ontario child benefit is different from anything we've ever done in Ontario, because for the first time we are supporting families where the parents work. For the first time, families who are working very hard to support their kids are getting a little bit more than they would have had before.

But we're not turning our back on social assistance, and I think it's very important that the member opposite actually get her facts right. A single mom, for example, with two kids, on social assistance has had an increase in income of 27% since we were elected. That's made up of the end of the clawback to the NCBS, increases in social assistance, federal investments that were not clawed back. We've made important strides, but we have still got work to do, and that is in fact why we are developing the strategy.

CHILD PORNOGRAPHY

Mrs. Carol Mitchell: My question is for the Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services. In February of this year, the OPP completed the largest coordinated child pornography investigation in the history of Ontario: 22 individuals were arrested, and our province took another step towards ending the exploitation of children. When asked about the groundbreaking investigation, Commissioner Fantino said, "Today is a great day for children and communities right across the province. The exploitation of children—by whatever means—is appalling...."

I agree strongly with Commissioner Fantino. This is good news for my family, for my constituents and for all of Ontario. I'd like the minister to tell us what this government is doing to ensure that this is the first of many such investigations and that we continue to be successful in fighting child pornography and bringing these criminals to justice.

Hon. Rick Bartolucci: I want to thank the member for the question.

Certainly I believe the people of Ontario and this government agree with Commissioner Fantino that the exploitation of children is always appalling. The OPP has done a terrific job, and I can tell the member with confidence that with the support of the McGuinty government, the OPP will continue to have success in fighting the spread of child pornography.

Of the 1,000 new officers this government has put on the streets, 60 officers have been designated to fight the sexual exploitation of children on the Internet. Our government has increased funding to the OPP's child pornography

section by a full 70%, and that has translated into 162 child pornography charges laid by the OPP last year against 54 people and 336 new investigations launched. We will continue to be diligent and committed to eradicating child pornography.

Mrs. Carol Mitchell: I'm very pleased to hear that the minister is so serious about continuing this fight. I'm also concerned, however, about the success of our efforts to rehabilitate sex offenders and to ensure that our communities are safe when they are released back into society. I know that as a result of the Auditor General's recent report, our government introduced amendments to Christopher's Law and that Bill 16 received royal assent on April 27

Can the minister tell the Legislature what our government is doing to ensure that sex offenders are receiving adequate rehabilitation, and can he assure us that our children are safe from past offenders?

Hon. Rick Bartolucci: The member is right to raise the issue. I'm proud of this government's record, and I can assure her that we are committed to providing offenders with training, intervention and treatment programs, as well as related services, to assist them in becoming law-abiding citizens.

As examples, this government has provided $700,000 to the Toronto Police Service for a pilot project to establish and maintain maximum compliance and effective management of sex offenders. We also reversed the decision by the previous government to close the Ontario Correctional Institute, Ontario's best treatment centre for violent and sexual offenders. And finally, as mentioned by the member, I am very proud of our sex offender registry, which today has a 95% compliance rate. Offenders who do not register are subject to police investigations and, if appropriate, charged and prosecuted. Public safety will continue to be the cornerstone of our—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you, Minister. New question.

TAXATION

Mr. Tim Hudak: A question to the Minister of Finance: Last week, John Tory and the Ontario PC caucus hosted an economic summit to hear directly from economists, business leaders and other concerned groups and individuals. We heard that Dalton McGuinty's tax hikes mean that Ontario's current tax structure is chasing well-paying jobs from the province of Ontario. In fact, Roger Martin, the dean of the Rotman School of Management, a special adviser to Premier McGuinty, said that Ontario has one of the highest marginal tax burdens on business investment in the world.

Minister, your policies are hurting families by chasing away good job opportunities and raising expenses. I ask you, will you immediately table an economic statement where you'll commit to lowering the tax burden and help create well-paying jobs in the province of Ontario?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: This morning, I had the opportunity to meet with 21 business leaders, three times as many as the Tory leader, to talk about all of these issues. I just remind the member what the head of our chamber of commerce said:

"The provincial government has decided to take a prudent approach. By the elimination of the capital tax, we think it is something that is going to be very positive. The cost allowance will help bring some money back into the pockets of companies."

We have a balanced approach. We have been consulting. We will have a fall statement in mid-to-late October. This follows up on a number of other—I remind the member that's per the financial transparency and accountability act, which he voted against, and we had to bring that in because even though they said they had a balanced budget, they had a deficit of $5.6 billion. That's according to the former Provincial Auditor. Our balanced five-point plan is the right plan for Ontario at this time. We will continue to work with the business community—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Tim Hudak: If the minister heard from the same economists that we did, he would have heard that Canada, and Ontario in Canada, is now predicted to be dead last in economic growth, thanks to Dalton McGuinty's tax-and-spend policies. He would have heard that a record number of talented Ontarians have left our province to find jobs in other provinces right across Canada. He would have heard directly that some 200,000-plus well-paying manufacturing jobs have now left the province of Ontario, thanks to Dalton McGuinty's tax-and-spend policies. I think the minister will know as well that through his work at the C.

D. Howe Institute, Jack Mintz recently showed that a 1% reduction in the Ontario corporate income tax rate would actually increase provincial tax revenues by up to 18%.

Minister, you did the opposite. You raised business taxes now that we have the least competitive tax structure in the world, and revenues have not kept pace. Will you now com