Manitoba Hansard — 11 October 2022 (Sitting 71B, 42nd Legislature, 4th Session)

42-4-71b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Fourth Session – Forty-Second Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Myrna Driedger Speaker Vol. LXXVI No. 71B - 1:30 p.m., Tuesday, October 11, 2022 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-Second Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALTOMARE, Nello Transcona NDP ASAGWARA, Uzoma Union Station NDP BRAR, Diljeet Burrows NDP BUSHIE, Ian Keewatinook NDP CLARKE, Eileen, Hon. Agassiz PC COX, Cathy Kildonan-River East PC CULLEN, Cliff, Hon. Spruce Woods PC DRIEDGER, Myrna, Hon. Roblin PC EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne, Hon. Lac du Bonnet PC FONTAINE, Nahanni St. Johns NDP FRIESEN, Cameron, Hon. Morden-Winkler PC GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin, Hon. Steinbach PC GORDON, Audrey, Hon.

Southdale PC GUENTER, Josh Borderland PC GUILLEMARD, Sarah, Hon. Fort Richmond PC HELWER, Reg, Hon. Brandon West PC ISLEIFSON, Len Brandon East PC JOHNSON, Derek, Hon. Interlake-Gimli PC JOHNSTON, Scott, Hon. Assiniboia PC KHAN, Obby Fort Whyte PC KINEW, Wab Fort Rouge NDP LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAGIMODIERE, Alan, Hon. Selkirk PC LAMONT, Dougald St. Boniface Lib. LAMOUREUX, Cindy Tyndall Park Lib.

LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas-Kameesak NDP LINDSEY, Tom Flin Flon NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Malaya Notre Dame NDP MARTIN, Shannon McPhillips PC MICHALESKI, Brad Dauphin PC MICKLEFIELD, Andrew Rossmere PC MORLEY-LECOMTE, Janice Seine River PC MOSES, Jamie St. Vital NDP NAYLOR, Lisa Wolseley NDP NESBITT, Greg, Hon. Riding Mountain PC PEDERSEN, Blaine Midland PC PIWNIUK, Doyle, Hon. Turtle Mountain PC REDHEAD, Eric Thompson NDP REYES, Jon, Hon. Waverley PC SALA, Adrien St. James NDP SANDHU, Mintu The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron Springfield-Ritchot PC SMITH, Andrew, Hon.

Lagimodière PC SMITH, Bernadette Point Douglas NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Vérendrye PC SQUIRES, Rochelle, Hon. Riel PC STEFANSON, Heather, Hon. Tuxedo PC TEITSMA, James Radisson PC WASYLIW, Mark Fort Garry NDP WHARTON, Jeff, Hon. Red River North PC WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC Vacant Kirkfield Park

3109 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Tuesday, October 11, 2022 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Madam Speaker: Good afternoon, everybody. Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 45–The Budget Implementation and Tax Statutes Amendment Act, 2022 Hon. Cameron Friesen (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, I move, seconded by the First Minister, that Bill 45, The Budget Imple mentation and Tax Statutes Am endment Act, 2022; Loi d'exécution du budget de 2022 et modifiant diverses dispositions législatives en matière de fiscalité, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr.

Friesen: Madam Speaker, I 'm pleased to intro - duce Bill 45, The Budget Imple mentation and Tax Statutes Amendment Act, for–2022. The bill implements numer ous tax statutes and other adminis trative changes, most of which were announced as part of Budget 2022. As well as some additional priority legis lation, these measures lower taxes for Manitobans and for busi nesses, provide one-time assistance to families with minor children and low -income seniors dealing with inflationary pressures.

They provide certainty for resi dential and agricultural property owners, respecting thei r 50 per cent school tax rebate in 2023 and enhance Manitoba gov ernment's service delivery, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: Is is the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Bill 46–The Highway Traffic Amendment Act Hon. Doyle Piwniuk (Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure): I move, seconded by the – secondly by the Indigenous Reconciliation and Northern Relations member, that Bill 46, The Highway Traffic Amendment Act, be now read for the first time.

Madam Speaker: It has been moved by the honourable Minister of Trans portation and Infrastructure, seconded by the hon ourable Minister of Indigenous Reconciliation and Northern Relations (Mr. Lagimodiere), that Bill 46, The Highway Traffic Amendment Act, be now read a first time. Mr. Piwniuk: Madam Speaker, I'm pleased to intro- duce Bill 46, The Highway Traffic Amendment Act. This bill amends The Highway Traffic Act to cre- ate a new offence for travelling on a highway that is closed due to bad weather condi tions, flooding or construction.

This bill will make Manitoba 's roads safer by addressing concerns raised by the RCMP about motorists ignoring highway closures , as this is a dangerous behaviour that puts lives at risk. The new offence and the association penalties–associated pen- alties will make it clear that driving on the closed highway is not permitted in Manitoba. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Committee reports? TABLING OF REPORTS Hon.

Cliff Cullen (Acting Government House Leader): I'm pleased to table the revised Estimates in the committee–for the Committee of Supply. MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS Madam Speaker: The honourable Minister of Health–and I would indicate that the required 90 minutes notice prior to routine proceedings was provided in accordance with our rule 26(2). Would the honourable minister please proceed with her statement. International Day of the Girl Hon. Audrey Gordon (Acting Minister responsible for the Status of Women ): October 11th is International Day of the Girl.

Across the world, we use this as an opportunity to highlight the role girls play as powerful voices for change in their f amilies, their communities and their nations. International Day of the Girl is celebrating its 10th anniversary, having been declared in 2012 at the United Nations. Plan International Canada worked in partnership with the Canadian government on a two-year cam paign to lead the work on having this day recognized globally.

3110 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 11, 2022 I encourage you to reflect on the many challenges that girls have faced due to their gender, just over the past decade alone, and also think about the amazing young women and girls who've achieved great things and will continue to do so. The burdens that girls are facing are huge. These include inconsistent access to edu cation, nutrition, legal rights and medical care. Many struggle to find protection from discrimination, violence and forced marriage.

Madam Speaker, regardless of these challenges, girls are making an impact around the world and cre- ating immense positive change in their communities. At the time the United Nations declared International Day of the Girl in 2012, we w ere in the immediate aftermath of Malala Yousafzai being shot by a Taliban gunman in an assassination attempt in retaliation for her activism. Think about the great things she has accomplished since that time. This is just one example of a girl with the de termination to lead the way as an activist, and proves that one is never too young to shape the future and empower others.

We do not need to go very far to find our own remarkable examples of young trailblazers right here in Manitoba. One of these won our Empower Women Award in the youth category last year. Divya Sharma is a determined, driven young woman with a passion for giving back to her community. She is a strong voice and leader in her high school and is the youngest member of the Asian Women of Winnipeg board.

After seeing the challenges that front -line work- ers faced during the COVID -19 pandemic, Divya collaborated with various organizations across the country and helped to provide over 16,000 care packages to health-care workers, first responders and essential services workers. We were so proud to be able to recognize Divya Sharma l ast year, and I cannot wait to see who receives our youth and adult category of the empower awards this year. I know that we received multiple nominations, and I commend those who submitted the nominations to ensure that the efforts of these outstanding young women are recognized.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. MLA Malaya Marcelino (Notre Dame): October 11th is International Day of the Girl, a day when we celebrate girls and commit to ending the systemic barriers that prevent them from having equal opportunity. One of the issues that girls across the world face is gender -based violence and we know that this happens in Manitoba, too. For girls, it is often ex- perienced in schools or online through social media. Girls as young as 15 have reached out to me about bullying and sexual harassment and even sexual assault that they have experienced.

A 2019 surve y done by the CBC found that sexual violence between students in schools was highest in the Prairies. More must be done, including teaching young people media literacy, and age- appropriate content regarding consent. Noni Classen, director of educa - tion for the Canadian Centre for Child Protection, has noted that schools have a unique role, as they have both a responsibility to create safe environments and an opportunity to have these conversations which students may not be having anywhere else.

As we celebrate International Day of the Girl, I would like to highlight two students who I have had the pleasure of working with on the issue of gender - based violence in schools. Christine Blanco, Elsa Watt and her mom, Jennifer Watt , have been researching gender-based violence in schools across the province and discovering how prevalent the experience of violence is for girls in Manitoba.

As legislators, we owe it to these students and to all girls in Manitoba to tackle the issue of gender - based violence by list ening when they ask for what they need and working together to prioritize the policies and programs with the greatest impact on Manitoba girls. Every girl deserves to feel safe in school and to have the opportunity to reach her full potential. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): Madam Speaker, I ask for leave to respond to the minister 's statement. Madam Speaker: Does the member have leave to respond to the ministerial statement? [Agreed] * (13:40) Ms.

Lamoureux: I rise toda y to recognize the 10th anniversary of International Day of the Girl.

October 11, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3111 This year's theme is Our Time Is Now -Our Rights, Our Future. Madam Speaker, while there are many topics we can discuss, I want to raise attention to the ongoing need for continued and m ore supports towards the opportunities of girls and women here in Manitoba. We are very aware of the glass ceilings that are still in many traditional male -dominant sports and professions that are preventing girls and women from making contributions to these fields.

This causes me to reflect upon STEM–science, technology, engineer- ing and math–who intentionally focuses on under - represented groups. We need more groups like this for all ages. We are also aware of other barriers that are making it difficult and often impossible for girls and women to pursue education and employment opportunities. At a provincial level, we could be doing more through affordable and accessible education, health benefits, whether you're a student, a child or a parent.

We could also be doing much more to ensure girls and women are not having to delay or withdraw from their own education and career choices due to not having access or funding for child care. Madam Speaker, girls in today 's society face tremendous barriers on top of the many expectations they often feel internally. We must continue to challenge the norms and beliefs that prevent girls and women from having the same opportunities as anyone else and that is why we take time today to recognize the 10th anniversary of International Day of the Girl. Thank you. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS National Food Truck Day Ms.

Janice Morley-Lecomte (Seine River): October 11th is National Food Truck Day. This day started in 2015 to celebrate the variety of food trucks that are in operation all over North America and the hard- working people behind them. The food truck model makes it convenient and accessible to try new food or old favorites. Although their operation has been limited in the last couple of years due to COVID -19, food truck rallies and fes - tivals offer great opportunities for communities and individuals to try new gourmet and ethnically diverse foods from all over North America.

Winnipeg is home to a variety of food trucks that can be found all around the city. During the summer, Broadway is filled with many food trucks and vendors. Additionally, St. Norbert Farmers' Market is home to food trucks, like The Red Ember, and vendors who sell their favourite cuisine to the many patrons at the market. Imagine a local fair and community event without the famous mini donuts or lemonade trucks. There are options for everyone–from fries and poutine to falafel, tacos, ice cream and more. These trucks make it easy to find something that appeals to anyone.

The Tourism Winnipeg website provides a map of the food trucks in the city for those interested or you can find them wandering around the city until you see or smell something you like. The food truck industry can be said to be re pre- sentative of Canada and of Manitoba as a whole. Food trucks allow hard- working individuals to start their own businesses and be their own bosses, while sharing aspects of their culture with their communities through their food. This multicultural hard -working industry absolutely deserves the recognition that National Food Truck Day provides. Thank you.

Union Station Community Safety Groups MLA Uzoma Asagwara (Union Station): Community safety is a growing issue in Union Station and many Manitoban communities. I regularly hear from folks who are concerned about community members navigating poverty, struggling with homelessness, addictions and unmet basic needs. People recognize that a lack of deeply affordable housing, access to mental health and addictions services like safer consumption sites and lack of meaningful and safe connections are con- tributing to the rise in safety issues.

I have yet to encounter anyone who doesn't think we need to approach these issues with compassion, harm reduction, an anti-racist and a decolonial lens to ensure we're providing care and resources which meet people where they're at. People have a right to be s afe in their com mun- ities and know that their government prioritizes their well-being no matter where they live in Manitoba. Fortunately, good people are filling the gaps in services which have been cut and underfunded by this PC government.

3112 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 11, 2022 Spence Neighbourhood Association has a new initiative called Community Connecting nights. Starting in November, they 'll be hosting community safety meetings the first Tuesday of each month on the–at the MERC on Langside. Additionally, Thrive commu nity safety –Thrive Community Support Circle recently developed a group which has started safety patrols that aim to create positive visibility and foster safety in the neigh- bourhood. I had the pleasure of meeting with Thrive's safety patrol club recently.

They're wonderful people who care deeply for others, and they 're looking for more members to join their walks. I encourage you to reach out if you're interested in joining or supporting their initiative. And you can even get one of their great T-shirts, which I'm proudly wearing today. I'm honoured to recognize the efforts of grass - roots organizations and neighbours who are doing what they can to make a positive difference. I call on this government to take lessons from these folks and start doing their part to foste r well and safer com - munities.

Today, we 're joined by members of Spence Neighbourhood Association and Thrive's safety patrol club. I ask my colleagues to join me in welcoming and thanking them for their very important work. Thank you. Iranian Plane Crash Memorial Mr. Obby Khan (Fort Whyte): Good afternoon, Madam Speaker.

Today, I rise with sadness and sorrow but also with a sense of hope and renewed optimism–sadness and sorrow that 1,007 days ago, 176 innocent lives were taken from this world on flight PS752 when it was shot down by two missiles from the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, more commonly known as the IRGC –176 lives in which 138 of them had direct ties to Canada and 55 of them were Canadian citizens. But the sadness and sorrow doesn' t stop there: 107,000 days later, more injustice and the unspeak- able atrocities are still happening in Iran by the IRGC and the world remains mostly silent.

On September 16th, 2022, Mahsa Amini, a 22-year-old female, was murdered for not covering their h ead as IRGC morality police deemed it in - appropriate. And since then, 194 innocent lives, including 19 children, have been killed in the protests to demand for justice for Mahsa Amini. While people are being killed for the right to choose what they wear, right here in our own back- yard, people in Quebec are being fired and dis - criminated against for choosing to wear what –the same clothing right here in Canada.

Yet with all this sadness and sorrow, there is a renewed sense of hope and optimism, a renewed fight for justice for the people of Iran. On October 1st, I was honoured to take

part in a tree planting in my riding of Fort Whyte at Scurfield Park organized by the Iranian Community of Manitoba, in which they planted 176 trees, for the precious souls taken on flight PS752. The trees are merely the first phase of a beautiful memorial that will be completed in the next coming year. I invite all of you to come join me and the Iranian community for a cup of tea under these new trees. The call for justice and action in the world is growing louder and louder by the day, and justice will prevail for the people of Iran.

This is the hope and optimism I feel, and I am proud to stand in solidarity with the Iranian community and justice everywhere. I would now ask my colleagues to rise today and recognize those from the Iranian community that are fighting for justice and are joined us here today. Bita Akhtari, Arian Arianpour, Poupak Azad, Maryam Bagheri, Kourosh Doustshenas, Saeideh Mirzaei, Mehrdad Afshari Nezhad, Jozy Oliver, Nafiseh Rezaei Roshan, Shervin Shahidian, Foruzan Shemirani. Punjabi Language Education Mr.

Diljeet Brar (Burrows): I rise today to raise the concerns of my constituents about their access to Punjabi language education. Manitobans of Punjabi origin constitute a signifi- cant portion of provincial population. There are over 33,000 people in Manitoba whose native language is Punjabi and over 27,000 others who speak mostly Punjabi at home. In fact, Punjabi is the fourth most widely spoken language in Canada. Punjabi Canadians have contributed in no small measure to the socio -economic development of Canada and Manitoba in significant fields such as education, science, health, business, and politics.

Additionally, thousands of Punjabi international students contribute millions of dollars to our econ- omy. Thousands of Punjabi immigrants arrive and settle in Manitoba on a regular basis.

October 11, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3113 During their struggle to settle as new Canadians, they make numerous sacrifices which include having to witness their children disconnect from their cultural roots. A lot of Punjabi parents have to send their chil - dren to religious institutions, cultural academies, private tutors and family friends to learn Punjabi language and other cultural values. This takes extra effort and resources, which are not affordable for all Punjabi immigrants.

Therefore, families with both young children and adult members feel a strong need for Punjabi language education at Manitoban institutions of learning. * (13:50) For years, there have been Ukrainian, Ojibwe, Filipino, Cree, Hebrew and Spanish bilingual pro- grams running in different school divisions in our province. A similar Punjabi bilingual program can be offered in Manitoban schools. A Punjabi bilingual program will not only provide education on the language, but also expose students to Punjabi culture and traditions.

Furthermore, this will be helpful in preparing multilingual professionals who have higher cultural tolerance for diverse ways of life. It will also better prepare students to manage cross - cultural situations and relationships. I would like to thank the hundreds of constituents who have signed a petition calling on the government to take steps to start teaching Punjabi language at all levels of education in Manitoba.

I also acknowledge members of the Punjabi com- munity: Harjeet Kaur Sandhu, Ravinder Gill, Deepak Kochhar, Harinder Paul Sharma, Saroj Bala, Parmodh Chander and Veena Kumari Vasudeva who have joined us today. Shukria, Madam Speaker. Supports for Neurodivergent Adults Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Madam Speaker, neurodiversity is present in a variety of in - dividuals, including those with learning disabilities, autism and ADHD. Understanding of and support for them is a very impor tant issue in Manitoba today. I will explain why.

Individuals who are neurodiverse tend to be very creative and often have new ways of looking at things and solving problems. When they are better understood and better supported, they can be major contributors to our society and to social, environ - mental and economic progress. When individuals who are neurodiverse are not supported adequately, they struggle, often drop out of school, can sometimes be involved with CFS and can develop secondary mental ill nesses like anxiety and depression.

They can also sometimes develop ad- dictions, experience homelessness, become juvenile delinquents and be victims of, or commit, crimes. A recent survey showed that homelessness and crime are the top two issues in Winnip eg today. To address this–these issues, we must better understand and support those who are neurodiverse. Not only will better understanding and support for them help reduce homelessness and crime, it will also enable them to achieve their potential and co ntribute to Manitoba in very positive ways. How do we better help those who are neuro- diverse?

An important step is to recognize that those who are neurodiverse and have an IQ greater than 75 continue to need supports after they turn 18 years of age. Newfoundland has already made support for in- dividuals with autism after age 18 based on their need, not simply on their age. Manitoba needs to make this change to help neurodiverse individuals transition from youth to adulthood in a successful way. Thank you. ORAL QUESTIONS Grace Hospital Beds and Staffing Levels Mr.

Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Madam Speaker, the Grace Hospital is in crisis–13 nurses have quit the intensive care unit there since the summer because the situation is so bad. That's according to front-line workers. Nurses are overworked. Their message is simple. Things are not okay. PC cuts are making things worse. The PCs cut nine beds from the Grace Hospital. That's according to the annual report of the WRHA, which I will table for the benefit of the Cabinet and the Premier. These are the facts. The cuts are making things worse and driving nurses out of the front lines.

Why is the Premier cutting health care at the Grace Hospital?

3114 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 11, 2022 Hon. Heather Stefanson (Premier): Again, the Leader of the Opposition continues to put false infor- mation on the record within this Chamber. He knows full well that we're investing over $1 billion more than the previous NDP government ever did in health care alone, Madam Speaker. Now, we recognize that there are health –or, that there are human resource issues within the health-care system, but that is nothing, of course, Madam Speaker, that is unique to Manitoba.

Been working with my counterparts across the country and, indeed, the federal government, in looking at this very serious issue. And that 's why we continue to call on the federal government for the Canada Health Transfer. We will continue to work with my counterparts across the country to ensure that we have the human resources there to run our health-care system. Madam Speaker: The honour able Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr.

Kinew: Madam Speaker, the No. 1 health human resource challenge we have in this problem is that we've got a PC government that is driving nurses out of the health-care system. At the Grace intensive care unit –that's just one site–since this summer, 13 nurses have left our health- care system. That 's coming at the time we can least afford to lose any more nurses. Everyone knows that this is the result of PC mis management. They closed the emergency rooms, they closed the beds, they fired the nurses and now it's the remaining health-care staff who are left to pick up the pieces.

When will the PCs stop cutting health care in Manitoba? Mrs. Stefanson: Once again, Madam Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition's

preamble and his question– there's a litany of false accusations there. But we will continue to put the facts on the record. And the fact of the matter is that we have a plan moving forward when it comes to increasing nursing positions in the province of Manitoba . We made that announcement some time ago; we are working to- wards that goal of 400 more seats in the province of Manitoba, to train those nurses. We recognize, Madam Speaker, again, this is not something that's unique to Manitoba. It 's something that we're facing right across this country. But I can tell you, while we have a plan, the NDP has no plan.

Madam Speaker: The honour able Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: Madam Speaker, this gov ernment can't even plan an annual general meeting for PC members. I don't know if that's because of incompetence on the part of the PCs or whether the leadership is just afraid to face their grassroots members, but I'll tell you what: on this side of the House, we think it's a mistake to cut 13 ICU nurses from the Grace Hospital. We say it's a mistake to cut nine beds from the same Grace Hospital.

This is a time where we need every single available person working on the front lines of our health-care system. We can't afford to lose any more. When will the PCs agree and stop cutting health care in Manitoba? Mrs. Stefanson: Well, Madam Speaker, I can detect that the Leader of the Op position is sensitive to the fact that he has no plan or vision for the future of our province. But the fact of the matter is, we do have a plan. We recognize that there's a challenge with respect to human resources and including nurses when it comes to our health -care system; again, nothing uni - que to Manitoba.

It's something that every province is facing across the country, and that 's why we have a short-, medium - and long- term plan for increasing those positions, Madam Speaker. We will continue to work in that direction with a plan that is putting more seats into our health-care system. The Leader of the Opposition has offered nothing when it comes to a plan for human resource challenges in the health-care system. Shame on him. New Highway Access Road in Brandon Conflict of Interest Concerns Madam Speaker: The honour able Leader of the Official Opposition, on a new question. Mr.

Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): You know, Madam Speaker, we learned that the Minister of Infrastructure vetoed the govern- ment department in order to help a PC donor with a project in Brandon. This project will cost everyone in Brandon, or at least contribute to the rising costs, to the extent of hundreds of dollars per year for folks living in Brandon, Manitoba. The minister 's own de partment said that this project, and I quote, increased the risk of accidents, and it was in direct violation of the law.

October 11, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3115 And yet, this minister pushed it through anyways , at the behest of this Premier. Why is the Premier pushing through a project that is going to cost the people of Brandon hundreds of dollars per year? Hon. Heather Stefanson (Premier): Well, Madam Speaker, we will always put the safety and the environment and economic dev elopment ahead of anything.

The Leader of the Opposition, again, has no plan or vision for the future. * (14:00) But when it comes to transportation, I can under- stand why you would be a little sensitive, Madam Speaker, because the fact of the matter is, the NDP – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs. Stefanson: –government, while they had 17 years to fix the infrastructure in this province, left us with a sig nificant invest ment–with a sig nificant deficit–with a significant deficit, Madam Speaker. And, Madam Speaker, we will continue to clean up the mess of the 17 years of an NDP gov ernment. We don't want to go back to that.

Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: Madam Speaker, the Premier and her minister have created a mess here. Again, the de partment said sp ecifically that the developer of this project–and I'm quoting here–failed to address the de partment's concerns. They said that they did not prepare a study by a qualified engineer. And finally, they said that this project does not meet, quote, standards nor does it conform to esta blished policy, end quote, Madam Speaker. These are the gov- ernment's own conclusions.

The only reason that the project ended up getting approved by the same govern ment is because this minister vetoed the government's decision, overruling the professional civil service in the name of a PC donor. Why did the Premier overrule her own de part- ment to help a PC fundraising contributor? Mrs. Stefanson: Well, Madam Speaker, I can see why the Leader of the Op position is hes itant to put facts on the record when it comes to infra structure, because the facts of the matter are they left our gov - ernment with a sig nificant infrastructure deficit right across the province of Manitoba.

That's why in the last–we announced in Budget 2022 a commitment of $2.5 billion over the next three years. That 's $500 million a year, Madam Speaker, that will go towards cleaning up the mess of the previous NDP government. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: Madam Speaker, here are the facts about this project in Brandon: The gov ernment says it will increase accidents. It says it is against depart ment policy and that it violates The Water Rights Act. Now, instead of listening to the professional pub- lic service, the minister overruled.

He vetoed their decision all in the name of a PC donor who contribu- ted the maximum allowable to the PC 's leadership campaign, Madam Speaker. This looks like political interference. And what's more, it looks like it' s going to cost the people of Brandon hundreds of dollars a year on their water bills. So, the question remains for the First Minister: Why did she veto a civil service decision to benefit a PC donor? Mrs.

Stefanson: Well, Madam Speaker, again, we have a plan for the future of infrastructure projects in the province of Manitoba where the NDP has no plan and no vision for the future–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs. Stefanson: –of our province, Madam Speaker. Things like twinning the Trans-Canada Highway to the Ontario border, the Highway 75 refurbishment, St. Mary 's overpass, the Winnipeg one -million Perimeter Highway freeway initiative, and the list goes on and on and on, Madam Speaker. We have a plan for the future of our province. Where's the NDP's plan?

New Highway Access Road in Brandon Road Safety and Wastewater Concerns Mr. Matt Wiebe (Concordia): According to the Minister of Infra structure's o wn de partment, a Brandon developer is pushing forward a project that, quote, increases the risk of accidents , including a higher potential for more severe accidents. This

3116 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 11, 2022 project is, according to the department, a, quote, direct violation of The Water Rights Act. So the de partment rejected this proposal twice; that is, until the minister stepped in and personally intervened and approved it anyway. And that will mean drastically higher water bills for the people living in Brandon. Why is the minister personally pushing forward projects that mean more accidents and higher water bills? Hon. Doyle Piwniuk (Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure): I just want to thank the member for the question.

Madam Speaker, when it comes to the city of Brandon, the bypass that goes around the city of Brandon is much like the Perimeter Highway, Madam Speaker. And the–and when it comes to the actual city of Winnipeg, the actual Portage Avenue, Pembina Highway, Henderson Highway, Main Street all go right up to the Perimeter Highway for economic dev- elopment. This is the focus that we 're looking at Brandon. Brandon is a growing community, and we want to make sure that economic development happens in the city of Brandon.

And if we 're allowing them –the access to–for this development to happen so there can be economic growth and opportunities for the city of Brandon. And every thing is actually north of the bypass, giving the opportunity for making sure No. 1 safety is the safety concerns for all Brandonites. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Concordia, on a supplementary question. Mr. Wiebe: But the minister 's own de partment thought this project should be rejected. In fact, it was already previously rejected by the Highway Traffic Board. But the PCs, they 're not interested in the facts.

They're willing to push it through anyway. The project will mean more accidents, it violates the law and it will mean higher water bills for those living in Brandon. That's what the government's own internal documents say. So why is the Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) willing to stand behind this minister and continue to push higher water rates and unsafe con ditions on the people of Brandon? Mr. Piwniuk: Madam Speaker, our priority –No. 1 priority is safety for–when it comes to Manitoba drivers.

And when it comes to the city of Brandon in this situation here, Madam Speaker, we 're going to be looking and reviewing the plan that the developers are going to look at. We're also going to create a plan for our Highway 10 when it comes to the safety, making sure that we get reduced speed zones, much like these–the city of Winnipeg. When Portage Avenue–if this mem- ber across the aisle would like to–if it was in the past, he would not even want Unicity to grow. This is the opportunity for Brandon to grow up to the–when it comes to the bypass, Madam Speaker.

And we're going to allow Brandon to grow –continue growing for–economically, making sure that we also look at the safety of going around the city of Brandon. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Concordia, on a final supplementary. Mr. Wiebe: Madam Speaker, these are direct quotes from the department: This project will, quote, increase collisions, quote, end quote. It does not, quote, meet standards or conform to established policy, end quote. And it's in direct violation of T he Water Rights Act. These are just a few of the reasons that the gov ern- ment's own department rejected it–twice.

But this PC gov ernment and this minister are willing to push it through anyway. The PCs have tried to hide their inter ference, all to help one of their friends, who' s donated thousands of dollars to the PC party. That's just wrong, Madam Speaker. Why is the minister pushing projects that mean more accidents and higher water bills for the people of Brandon? Mr. Piwniuk: Madam Speaker, the other member across the aisle, he was been in the gov ernment for 17 years with the NDP government. They didn't want development happening anywhere in this province. They put so much red tape.

Here's an oppor tunity now to make sure this province grows, every corner of this province right now, and we 're going to do that Madam Speaker. We're going to make sure we focus on economic dev- elopment, at the same time focus ing on safety for all Manitoba's drivers.

October 11, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3117 Lions Place Seniors Residence Concern Over Potential Sale MLA Uzoma Asagwara (Union Station): Madam Speaker, Lions Place at 610 Portage Ave. is the largest non-profit seniors building in our province. It's im portant that social housing be preserved. Seniors are rightly concerned that the building will be sold to an operator that's going to charge them market rent. When this issue emerged a few years ago, the government said they were working on a solution, but the financial agreements expired. Where's the gov ernment's concern to date?

Will they take action and ensure Lions Place is not sold? Hon. Audrey Gordon (Acting Minister of Families): I thank the member for Union Station for the question. Once again, Madam Speaker, member– members opposite are late with their communication. They missed a meeting. Manitoba Housing, I want them to know, is com- mitted to working with non -profit and other housing providers to ensure the efficient delivery of affordable housing for all Manitobans, including Lions Place. That is why the Minister of Families (Ms. Squires) met with the group representing Lions Place–the voice for that group–on October 3rd.

We will continue to meet to move on issues that are im portant to the individuals at Lions Place, Madam Speaker. * (14:10) Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Union Station, on a supplementary question. MLA Asagwara: Madam Speaker, Lions Place has operated for decades for the benefit of seniors. A sale threatens the long-term affordability for seniors; many of them have lived there for years, Madam Speaker. Hundreds of social housing units have already been lost under this PC gov ernment. We should not lose, and we cannot afford to lose, any more. Seniors at Lions should continue to have affordable rent.

Will the minister take action today and ensure that Lions Place is not sold? Ms. Gordon: Again, the Minister of Families has met with representatives from Lions Place and discussions are under way. But I want Manitobans to know that it was our government that endorsed the bilateral agreement under the National Housing Strategy in 2019, and is– and we 're als o encouraged by the federal govern - ment's commit ment to support non- profit housing providers, Madam Speaker. Since 2016, 755 new social and affordable housing units have been developed, as well as 320 new shelter beds.

Madam Speaker, we're taking action on housing, and we will continue to do so, even at Lions Place. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Union Station, on a final supplementary. MLA Asagwara: Madam Speaker, this minister knows that a meeting is not a commit ment or a guarantee to those seniors. I wrote the minister about this matter, and unfor- tunately, the minister's response included no commit- ment to review –or, sorry, rather, renew or new funding to help Lions be viable today and into the future.

The action com mittee at Lions P lace is also looking for leadership from the minister to help seniors' rent remain affordable. We're talking about hundreds of seniors, Madam Speaker. This is the largest non-profit seniors building in the province. It needs to be preserved. Will the minister take action and ensure 610 Portage Ave. remains with the Lions for now and for well into the future? Ms. Gordon: Meetings are where our gov ernment listens and develops a plan, and I encourage the NDP opposite to take a page out of our book: listen and develop a plan.

So, we are listening to repre sentatives at Lions Place to develop a plan, Madam Speaker, because our government knows that the non-profit housing sector plays a key role in affordable housing. Lions Place is one of those housing facilities, and we want to ensure the residents there continue to receive the housing that they need today and in the future. Exchange Income Corporation Medical Aviation Services Contract Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): Well, we 're seeing the impact of the Premier 's (Mrs. Stefanson) plan to privatize medical aviation services.

Just last week, Madam Speaker, a mother and her little newborn from a northern community had to wait over 24 hours to be medevac 'd to Winnipeg after her infant experienced seizures. We can well imagine how scared and worried the mom must have been.

3118 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 11, 2022 Critical services like medical aviation should not be sold off to the highest bidder. The Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) should be ensuring medical aviation services are publicly owned. Will she do so today? Hon. Audrey Gordon (Minister of Health): Members opposite know that due to patient privacy laws, I cannot speak to specific cases on the floor of this Chamber. I would like to remind members opposite that it's medical practitioners, medical professionals, that are making the decisions at the bedside, Madam Speaker.

And I do want to speak to what the member has raised, to share that Shared Health 's child transport team, and–it specializes in the care of transport for infants and children–were in regular contact with the families, Madam Speaker. And we will continue to do our part to ensure that individuals in the North have access to care. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a supplementary question. Ms. Fontaine: We know that the Premier has a financial interest in Exchange Income Corporation, a company looking to bid on medical aviation services.

Earlier this year, the Province issued an RFP for medical aviation services, Madam Speaker. The submission–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Ms. Fontaine: –deadline ended in September. Manitobans deserve to know who this essential medical service will be sold off to, Madam Speaker. Will EIC get the medical aviation services contract? Simple: yes or no, Madam Speaker. Ms. Gordon: It's a pleasure for me to rise in this Chamber to put facts on the record, Madam Speaker– something the members opposite have not done.

Our gov ernment is committed to enhancing critical-care capacity in Manitoba and more–modern medical aviation fleet is a vital component of that service. And so an RFP was issued, Madam Speaker. It will ensure safe, timely, reliable and consistent care, standardized uni versal care among air ambulances, help to build a more modern critical-care service that supports the evolving needs of Manitobans. And I 'm pleased to see that the member for St. Johns is interested in knowing about the RFP, because it will provide excellent aviation– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. The honourable member for St.

Johns, on a final supplementary. Ms. Fontaine: A mother and her little newborn had to wait 24 hours to be medevac'd out from their commu- nity to Winnipeg last wee k, Madam Speaker. That shows how important timely medical aviation services are. The quality of these services are suffering because of the PCs ' privatization plans. And the Premier has a financial interest in EIC, a private company bidding on medical aviation services. The gov ernment's RFP for medical aviation closes–it closed in September.

Can the Premier tell us whether or not EIC will get this contract and whether or not she recused herself from this deal? Miigwech. Ms. Gordon: The RFP process is an in dependent process, in dependent of gov ernment. The decisions are not being made here in the Legis lative Building, Madam Speaker, something that I understand is new for the members opposite. Madam Speaker, the RFP, again, will ensure – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Ms. Gordon: –safe, timely, reliable and con sistent care, stan dardized uni versal care among air ambu - lances, help to build a more modern critical -care service and more.

It is a public process. It 's independent of our government. We look forward to the results of that. Northern Health Services Private Agency Nursing Costs MLA Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): Earlier this session, my colleagues raised concerns about the accelerating use of private nurse agencies. This situation is even worse in the North, and I'll table a freedom -of-information response: $5 million was spent in just the first six months of 2022. The North is now on pace to spend $10 million a year on

October 11, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3119 agency nurses. This is more than fo ur times what it was just a few years ago. What is the minister doing to address the growing reliance on private agencies? Hon. Audrey Gordon (Minister of Health): It's a pleasure to rise in the House today to talk about exactly what our gov ernment is doing: $19.5 million to add 259 nurse training seats this year, Madam Speaker, on track to meet our goal of 400 new nursing seats; $4.3 million for 37 addi tional nurse training seats at University College of the North.

I was pleased to be part of the graduation cere - mony for the college of nursing last year where we welcomed over a hundred new nurses to the health system. One hundred and forty-nine nurses are taking additional training within the system, and I have more to share with the members opposite. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Flin Flon, on a supplementary question. MLA Lindsey: We know that this government, when they first got elected, cut nurse training seats. Now trying to play catch up is going to leave us short.

Madam Speaker, $5 million in the Northern Health Region on private agencies in just six months. The use of private agencies is accelerating. It's getting worse. Northern region–all across the North. * (14:20) Meanwhile, Thompson, now, is running 26 per cent nurse vacancy rate. Same time, they 've shut hospitals down throughout the North because they don't have nurses. They don't want to hire enough agencies now, because they've created this nightmare of themselves. So, will the minister reverse her cuts, ensure more nurses are working in northern Manitoba today, not some day during the future? Ms.

Gordon: It's my pleasure to rise in the House to put on the record their cuts and their closures, Madam Speaker. When the NDP were in power, they closed 16 emergency de partments across rural Manitoba. These changes affected–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Ms. Gordon: –over 100 com munities, Madam Speaker. In fact, there were rural EDs that had been temporarily closed for 15 years under their watch due to the staffing issues. That is the legacy of their gov - ernment that we are now having to clean up. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Flin Flon, on a final supplementary.

MLA Lindsey: You know, Lynn Lake used to have a hospital, Leaf Rapids us ed to have a hospital, Snow Lake used to have a hospital until this gov ernment's cuts caught up with them. They 're trying to contract out all the health care in the North, and that 's what they're doing. The approach is undermining the public system. Nurses in the public system are being mandated while private agencies are provided more money, more flexibility. This is eroding the public system; the Northern Health Region on track to spend $10 million on private agency nurses this year.

So what is the minister doing to attract full -time nurses to the public system going forward, rather than discouraging them? Ms. Gordon: I'm pleased to rise to put some informa- tion on the record about what we are doing in the North and rural communities. In Budget 2022, our gov ernment has committed $812 million, Madam Speaker –the largest single health-care commitment in Manitoba's history–to im- prove rural and northern care. It will lead to over 30 projects that will also in - clude a northern intermediary hub to ensure in divid- uals receive care closer to home, Madam Speaker.

We will continue to take action when they did nothing. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Non-Disclosure Agreement Legislation Request for Support for Bill 225 Mr. Dougald Lamont (St. Boniface): I'm very pleased this morning–Bill 225, to reform the abuse of non-disclosure agree ments, passed second reading and will go to committee. Unions exist to protect workers, and we want to make sure that that 's happening.

That 's why it was disturbing to hear a while ago that former–the former head of the Winnipeg Labour Council, Basia Sokal , had to resign because complaints were being ignored and she's still being hounded. She filed a complaint of sexual harassment and sexual assault, and when her union dismissed the charges and she expressed her disappointment online, she was sued by defamation

3120 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 11, 2022 by her alleged assailant. The case just wrapped up in August. Will the Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) support our NDA reform bill to prevent survivors fro m being silenced and go further, encourage people to speak up? Hon. Reg Helwer (Minister of Labour, Consumer Protection and Government Services): Well, as I understand it, the House sat this morning and debated the legislation and I understand it's moved to commit- tee. Madam Speaker: The honour able member for St. Boniface, on a supplementary question. Mr. Lamont: I am pleased to say that Ms.

Sokol prevailed in her two cases, including she won her case and won at the Court of Appeal just in August, and I table the judgment. This is what she was sued for saying, without naming anyone, quote: Just this week, I was once again reminded of how little faith workers must have in their representation when my own union dismissed sexual harassment and assault charges against another member following an 18-month investigation against a member who was and continues to be very active in the union.

I was the only one who came forward formally, but I can certainly imagine that following testimony of severa l other women at the hearings, I will be the last. That is difficult to read, Madam Speaker. Now, we know there is more to do to prevent cases like this. Will the Premier and the PCs support our bill that will, as a start, end the abuse of NDAs in Manitoba? Mr. Helwer: Well, as the member opposite well knows, we don't discuss–or, able to discuss individual cases in the Legislature here. That's his prerogative to bring them up if he wishes.

The particular legislation that I believe had some reference to has moved to com mittee, and we look forward to hearing from Manitobans on that issue. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for River Heights, on a final supplementary. Services for Neurodivergent Adults Needs Based Assessments Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Madam Speaker, currently adults who are neurodiverse, who have–as example, a learning dis ability, autism or ADHD–are being denied access by this government to community living and disability services if their IQ is above 75.

Newfoundland and Labrador have now recog- nized that access to services should be based on the nature of the disability and on a person's needs, rather than on IQ. When will the prov incial government make the changes needed so that neurodiverse adults with an IQ above 75 can access CLDS services on the basis of their needs rather than on the basis of their IQ? Hon. Audrey Gordon (Acting Minister of Families): I thank the member from River Heights for the question. We have significantly increased the b udget for CLDS.

In Budget 2022, we will continue to do our part to ensure that children and families across this province have the care and access to care that they need. And I want to point out an example: $4 million to ensure that 270 vulnerable youth exiting care con- tinue to receive benefits and supports. That's just one example, Madam Speaker. We will do so much more here in this province. MOUs Signed with First Nations Forestry Revenue Sharing Agreements Mr.

Rick Wowchuk (Swan River): Our government has signed many memorandums of under standing with Indigenous com munities related to forestry operations on their traditional territory. Can the Minister of Natural Resources and Northern Development explain why this is a sig nifi- cant ste p forward towards Indigenous economic re - conciliation? Hon. Greg Nesbitt (Minister of Natural Resources and Northern Development): Well, I'd like to thank the member from Swan River for that very timely question.

Madam Speaker, we recog nize that In digenous communities should benefit from forestry operations on their traditional territories. That is why our govern- ment is proud to have signed these historic memoran- dums of understanding with five First Nations, which are first of their kind in Manitoba. We are looking forward to engaging with more Indigenous leaders on our First Nations to ensure everyone benefits from Manitoba 's resources. These communities will now see 45 per cent of revenues collected from timber dues returned to their rights holders.

October 11, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3121 The timber dues collected through the manage - ment of Manitoba 's forests are just one of many economic benefits that are a part of our government's ongoing commit ment to enhancin g Indigenous participation in the forestry sector. Path to Reconciliation Act Timeline to Develop Strategy Mr. Ian Bushie (Keewatinook): Well, to segue into my concern: earlier this year, the Auditor General determined that the PC gov ernment failed to live up to their legal respon sibility to implement a recon - ciliation strategy.

The Auditor General found that the PCs have no strategy for reconciliation and no plan for when they will implement one. Six months after this report was released, we still haven't heard anything on when we might see a recon- ciliation strategy implemented. Can the minister tell us when he will put forward a reconciliation strategy here in Manitoba? Hon. Alan Lagimodiere (Minister of Indigenous Reconciliation and Northern Relations): Why, yes, we accept the Auditor General 's report on the Department of Indigenous Recon ciliation and Northern Relations.

And with respect to advancing the 'reconstiliation' strategy, our gov ernment is com- mitted to advancing the reco nciliation strategy through meaningful engagement with all Manitobans and informed by Indigenous peoples. And we have developed an en gagement plan which will serve as the basis for this work, which is expected to begin shortly. * (14:30) Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Keewatinook, on a supplementary question. Mr. Bushie: Use of the word shortly, but it's been six years since The Path to Recon ciliation Act was passed.

Yet, despite the act requiring the PCs to implement a reconciliation strategy, nothing has been put forward. In fact, the 'audijay' general found that the PCs have no strategy and no plan for when one will be implemented. The Auditor General said, and I quote: Without a strategy, efforts toward reconciliation are hampered, ultimately lacking focus and vision. End quote. This PC gov ernment should commit to imple - menting a strategy today. Can the minister provide a timeline for when this– his gov ernment will implement this recon ciliation strategy? Mr.

Lagimodier e: As I said, the en gagement plan needs to be built on the basis of continuing work with all Manitobans, including Indigenous leadership. And with that, the member opposite should know, if he talked to the member next to him –from Thompson– that we have been working on trying to develop this plan. Unfortunately, due to changes in leadership right now, we continue to try and get people to the table to talk about this important engagement. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Keewatinook, on a final supplementary. Mr. Bushie: Indigenous com munities and peoples don't want to hear more excuses.

Madam Speaker, we know the former premier, Brian Pallister, did not take recon ciliation seriously. During his time as premier, he failed to implement a reconciliation strategy despite a legal responsibility to do so. Now, the current Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) has also failed to implement a reconciliation strategy and it's been now nearly a year since she took over as leader. At this point, it is unclear whether the PCs will ever implement a reconciliation strategy. Can the minister outline a timeline for when his government plans on imple menting a recon ciliation strategy for Manitoba? Mr.

Lagimodiere: Our government has been a gov- ernment of action. We have been reaching out to Indigenous com - munities, to First Nations leadership. We have been reaching out to the SCO, MKO, Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs. And actually, in March of this year, when we reached out to then-acting member for Thompson, at this particular time, to engage, he advised that it would be premature for us to do that until we have a new grand chief in place. Madam Speaker: Order. Department of Agriculture Office Closures and Staffing Mr. Diljeet Brar (Burrows): Madam Speaker, the PCs have gutted Manitoba Agriculture: hundreds of

3122 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 11, 2022 positions left vacant; dozens of offices closed; lending activity to producers declined by 11 per cent last year. Altogether, it means less service and less support for producers. When will the minister address the cuts his gov - ernment has made to the Department of Agriculture? Hon. Derek Johnson (Minister of Agriculture): I welcome a question on agriculture. It gets–allows me to get up and talk about all the great things that we've been doing. This gov ernment has increased vet seats by 33 per cent. That government has done nothing.

Before I get to the rest of the answer, I just want to say thank you to all of our farmers and producers out there and wish them a good stress- fee–stress-free harvest, Madam Speaker. It 's that time of year that they're out there producing food for us, and I just want say thank you to all the producers. Madam Speaker: The time for oral questions has expired. PETITIONS Disability Services Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Madam Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows: Currently, adults with–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order.

Mr. Gerrard: –specific or non-specific disabilities or a combination of disabilities, such as ADHD, autism, dyslexia, dysgraphia, ' dyscalcula,' auditory or lan- guage processing disorders and/or non- verbal learn- ing disabilities will be denied access to services under the Province of Manitoba 's com munity living and disability services, CLDS, if their IQ is above 80. People with these or other borderline cognitive functioning issues also have extremely low adaptive skills and are not able to live in dependently without support.

Recently, it has become widely recog nized that access to CLDS should be based not solely on IQ, which is only a measure of a person's ability to answer questions verbally or in writing in relation to mathematics, science or material which is read. Very often, persons with specific or non-specific disabilities or a combination of these disabilities have specific needs related to their executive function for support when they are adults or are transitioning to adulthood, which are not n ecessarily connected to their IQ.

Executive function is the learned ability to do the normal activities of life, including being organized, being able to plan and to carry out plans and adapt to changing conditions. Those who have major defects in executive function have a learning dis ability requiring assistance under CLDS to be able to make a contribution to society and be self-sustaining. Provision of CLDS services to individuals with specific or non-specific disabilities or a combination of these disabilities and have the potential to make an important change in a person's life.

Newfoundland and Labrador have now recog- nized that access to services should be based on the nature of the dis ability and the person' s needs rather than on IQ. We petition the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to change the requirements for accessing community living and dis- ability services so that these require ments are based on the needs of individuals with specific or non- specific dis abilities including executive functioning or a combination of dis abilities rather than solely on the basis of their IQ.

Signed by Vona Guiler, Jayna Veldhuis, Ken Carter and many other Manitobans. Madam Spe aker: In accordance with our rule 132(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House. Louise Bridge Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Over 25,000 vehicles per day cross the Louise Bridge, which has served as a vital link for vehicular traffic between northeast Winnipeg and the downtown for the last 110 years.

(2) The current structure will undoubtedly be declared unsafe in a few years as it has deteriorated extensively, becoming functionally obsolete, subject

October 11, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3123 to more frequent unplanned repairs and cannot be widened to accommodate future traffic capacity.

(3) As far back as 2008, the City of Winnipeg has studied where the new replacement bridge should be situated.

(4) After including the bridge replacement in the City's five -year capital budget forecast in 2009, the new bridge became a short-term construction priority in the City's transportation master plan of 2011.

(5) City capital and budget plans identified re - placement of the Louise Bridge on a site just east of the bridge and expropriated homes there on the south side of Nairn Avenue in anticipation of a 2015 start.

(6) In 2014, the new City admin istration did not make use of available federal infrastructure funds.

(7) The new Louise Bridge Com mittee began its campaign to demand a new bridge and its surveys con- firmed residents wanted a new bridge beside the cur - rent bridge, with the ol d bridge kept open for local traffic.

(8) The NDP provincial government signalled its firm commitment to partner with the City on replacing the Louise Bridge in its 2015 Throne Speech. Unfor - tunately, provincial infrastructure initiatives, such as the new Louise bridge, came to a halt with the election of the Progressive Conservative government in 2016.

(9) More recently, the City tethered the Louise Bridge replacement issue to its new trans portation master plan and eastern corridor project. Its recom- mendations have now identified the location of the new Louise bridge to be just to the west of the current bridge, not to the east as originally proposed.

(10) The city expropriation process has begun. The $6.35- million street upgrade of Nairn Av enue from Watt Street to the 111 -year-old bridge is complete.

(11) The new Premier has a duty to direct the provincial government to provide financial assistance to the City so it can complete this long overdue vital link to northeast Winnipeg and Transcona. * (14:40) We petition the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the new Premier to financially assist the City of Winnipeg on building this three -lane bridge in each direction to maintain this vital link between northeast Winnipeg, Transcona and the downtown.

(2) To urge the provincial government to recom- mend that the City of Winnipeg keep the old bridge fully open to traffic while the new bridge is under con- struction.

(3) To urge the provincial government to consider the feasibility of keeping it open for active trans por- tation in the future. And this petition is signed by many, many Manitobans. Provincial Road 224 Ms. Amanda Lathlin (The Pas-Kameesak): I wish to present the following petition to the Legis lative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) The Prov incial Road No. 224 serves Peguis First Nation, Fisher River Cree Nation and surround- ing communities, and the road is in dire need of sub- stantial repairs.

(2) The road has been in poor condition for years and has numer ous potholes, uneven driving surfaces and extremely narrow shoulders.

(3) Due to recent popula tion growth in the area, there has been increased vehicle and pedestrian use of Provincial Road 224.

(4) Without repair, Provincial Road 224 will con- tinue to pose a hazard to many Manitobans who use it on a regular basis; and

(5) Concerned Manitobans are requesting that Provincial Road 224 be assessed and repaired urgently to improve safety for its users. We petition the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the Minister of Infrastructure to complete an assessment of Provincial Road 224 and implement the appropriate repairs using public funds as quickly as possible. And this petition has been signed by many, many fine Manitobans. Ekosi. Thank you. Lead in Soils Mr. Mintu Sandhu (The Maples): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba.

3124 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 11, 2022 The background of this petition is as follows:

(1) In December of 2019, the provincial gov ern- ment's commissioned report on lead concentrations in soil in Winnipeg was completed.

(2) The report found that 10 neighbourhoods had, I quote, concern ing, unquote, levels of lead con- centration in their soil, inclu ding Centennial, Daniel McIntyre, Glenelm -Chalmers, north Point Douglas, River Osborne, Sargent Park, St. Boniface, West End, Weston and Wolseley-Minto.

(3) In particular, the predicted blood lead levels for children in north Point Douglas, Weston and Daniel McIntyre were above the level of concern.

(4) The Weston Elementary School field has been forced to close down many times because of the concerns of lead in soil and the provincial govern - ment's inaction to improve the situation.

(5) The lead exposure especially affects children aged seven years and under, as their nervous system is still developing.

(6) The effects of lead exposure are irreversible and include impacts on learning, behaviour and intelligence.

(7) For adults, long-term lead exposure can con - tribute to high blood pressure, heart disease, kidney problems and reproductive effects.

(8) The provincial government currently has no comprehensive plan in place to deal with the lead in soil, nor is there a broad advertis ing campaign educating residents on how they can reduce their risks of lead exposure.

(9) The lead –instead, people in these areas con- tinue to garden and work in the soil and children continue to play in the dirt, often without any know - ledge of the associated risks.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to take action to reduce people's exposure to lead in Winnipeg, and to implement the recommendations proposed by the provincial government 's ind ependent review, in - cluding in–creation of an action plan for the Weston neighbourhood, developing a lead awareness com - munication and outreach program, requestioning a more in-depth study and creating a tracking program for those tested for blood lead l evels so that medical professionals can follow up with them. This has been signed by many, Manitobans.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: Any further petitions? The honour able member for Tyndall Park (Ms. Lamoureux)–or, I 'm sorry, the honour able member for Notre Dame. Home-Care Services MLA Malaya Marcelino (Notre Dame): Madam Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. To the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba: The background of this petition is as follows:

(1) Home -care workers in Manitoba provide skilled and com passionate care that helps better the quality of life for thousands of Manitobans.

(2) Robust home -care services are proven to reduce the strain on health services and demand for hospital beds.

(3) Home care reduces demand for long- term- care beds as it allows people to continue living in their own space.

(4) Studies show that a third of the 200,000 Canadians living in long- term-care homes could stay home with proper home-care support.

(5) Investing in home care saves money, as daily services cost half the price of a long-term-care bed and one-seventh the daily cost of a hospital bed.

(6) The provincial government's cuts to home care in Manitoba has resulted in chronic staffing issues that caused the WRHA to cancel 27,000 home -care ap - pointments in the month of April 2022 alone.

(7) Many clients in Manitoba only receive home- care services once a day,

whereas countries in – countries such as Denmark offer up to six visits a day.

(8) Home-care workers in Manitoba are paid poor wages, are offered little benefits, lack sick time and are overworked, resulting in dif ficulty retaining and attracting workers.

(9) Home -care workers have been without a contract since 2017, due to this prov incial gov ern- ment's interference in labour negotiations.

(10) Investing in home care is a proactive approach that would save the Province millions of dollars as well as allow more Manitobans to age in place.

October 11, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3125 We petition the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the Minister of Health and Minister of Seniors and Long-Term Care to immediately increase investment in home -care services so that home -care workers can be paid a fair wage and clients can receive the level of service they require. This has been signed by Evan Krosney, Eva Murphy and Cherryll Rodriguez and many other Manitobans. Madam Speaker: Any further petitions? If not, then grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY (Continued) GOVERNMENT BUSINESS House Business Hon.

Cliff Culle n (Acting Government House Leader): On House business, pursuant to rule 34(7), I am announcing that the private member's resolution to be considered on the next Tuesday of private members' business will be the one put forward by the honourable member for Fort Whyte (Mr. Khan). The title of the reso lution is Calling on the Federal Government to Stand in Unity with the Manitoba Legislature and Support Religious Freedom.

Madam Speaker: It has been announced that the private member's resolution to be considered on the next Tuesday of private members' business will be one put forward by the honour able member for Fort Whyte. The title of the reso lution is Calling on the Federal Gov ernment to Stand in Unity with the Manitoba Legislature and Support Religious Freedom. * * * Mr. Cullen: Would you call Committee of Supply. Madam Speaker: It has been announced that the House will consider Estimates this afternoon. This House will now resolve into Com mittee of Supply. Mr. Deputy Speaker, please take the Chair.

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) ROOM 254 ENVIRONMENT, CLIMATE AND PARKS * (15:00) Mr. Chairperson (Dennis Smook): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This sec- tion of the Committee of Supply will now resume con- sideration of the Estimates for the De partment of Environment, Climate and Parks. Questioning for this department will continue on a global manner. The floor is now open for questions. Ms. Lisa Naylor (Wolseley): Hello again, Minister. Last week, we–I had started to ask about your depart- ment's process of developing an energy policy for the Manitoba government.

And if you could now talk about the scope of the energy policy, and if this policy will include Crown cor porations like Manitoba Hydro. Hon. Jeff Wharton (Minister of Environment, Climate and Parks): Welcome back [inaudible] Wolseley and her team, and it 's certainly great to be here to talk about energy today, on this beautiful, sunny, fall afternoon. And to the question on energy strategy and Crown's involvement, absolutely, parti cularly Manitoba Hydro and Efficiency Manitoba are –have been and continue to be at the table when it comes to Dunsky, that we spoke about last week, leading the strategy of course.

Dunsky, well recognized, certainly offer the member to look up their history and their record. They operate in several states along with Canada as well in several provinces and territories, so. Great record and looking forward to, again, continuing to work with them. Particular when it comes to Hydro, for instance, the integrated resource plan, or the IRP, this strategy will help form that IRP as they go forward to as well. We know how important an integrated resource plan is for Manitoba Hydro ; they 've never had one, and they will have one, and a lot of it will be driven out of the energy strategy.

And Dunsky 's report, of course, which we're looking forward to releasing later on this year. And also Efficiency Manitoba, as you know and the member probably knows, that there's a three-year plan currently in place with Efficiency Manitoba. The

3126 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 11, 2022 energy strategy will also help develop the next three- year plan for Efficiency Manitoba as they go forward with the process of, again, on conserving energy but also working with Manitobans and industry to ensure that we get to that path that we need to be with reducing our energy consumption. So, I'll leave that for now and I look forward to your next question. Ms. Naylor: Can the minister explain if there will be greenhouse gas emissions reduction targets as part of the energy policy? Mr. Wharton: Again, thank the member for the question.

And again, Dunsky 's report really focuses in on five main areas that they're leaning towards, and we'll talk about the path to net zero shortly. But currently, the current state of energy, of course, is an area that we looked at in Manitoba, and the net -zero scenario would be the second one. Innovation scan, of course, working with stake holders on innovation and new technologies. A hydrogen feasibility study and, again, further enhance 'stakehold' engagement was all part of that process. And really it's not a target date on the path to net zero; it 's really a journey on getting there.

But cer - tainly we know that with the work that the Dunsky consultants have done in relationship with stake - holders throughout the province, we know that that path will be a lot more clear as we continue forward. And Dunsky provides us with more of an under - standing, provides Manitobans with more of an under- standing exactly what that path will look like. Ms. Naylor: So, I just want to be sure, I mean, I 'm hearing a talk about paths, I'm hearing you talk about net zero. Can you say for certain that there will be a greenhouse gas emission reduction target as part of the plan? Mr.

Wharton: So, how we get there, again, is going to be rolled out in the report. You know, to say we 're there in five years or 10 years is probably not some - thing that we can commit to, obviously, because we haven't seen the report. But certainly we know that in the report we're looking at alternatives to, of course, gas and oil, and those are the things that we ne ed to focus in on in order to get down that path of net zero and reduction in GHG.

So, you know, geothermal heat, renewable elec - tricity we talk about, transition to electric vehicles, which, again, our government is very pleased on that path as we go forward with not only electric vehicles and working with industry and the like, but also getting more charging stations available. And I know that it 's an area that we and the depart ment are focusing in on parti cularly in our parks, where we know that we need a reinvest ment after two decades of no investment–as a matter of fact, reductions in our parks–we know that we need to make an investment.

And inclusive of that investment the recom men- dations, of course, of Manitobans. We 've see a path forward there with respect to charging stations. So now you take a trip up to Whiteshell –hopefully, we don't have the same spring issues that we had this year where we can't get on our docks and our boats. I know a couple members that –from the other side have places up there and they enjoy that beautiful Winnipeg River system, and certainly hope they can get up there too.

But, if they go up to a prov incial park and they want to spend the weekend and they have an electric vehicle, they 'll be able to charge their vehicle, we hope, very soon too, as well. So, again, focusing on the transition to electric vehicles, hydrogen feasibility, geothermal, renewable electricity, these are all areas that will help set that pathway forward. Ms. Naylor: Thank you, Minis ter. I 'm not hearing about specific emission reduction targets.

But I will ask if the minister or his de partment plan on pub- lishing the gov ernment's energy policy publicly and when we can expect –when the public can expect to see that plan. * (15:10) Mr. Wharton: Certainly, as I mentioned earlier on in one of my answers, we were looking towards the end of this year –calendar year, towards the later fall to have the reports made public. Of course, that 's what this gov ernment does and we're intend–we're going on that path. However, we did request that Dunsky do further consultations with Indigenous folks.

So we are still anticipating to have a late fall, end- of-calendar-year release, based on the infor mation that we've been provided on the consultations–further consultations, more in-depth consultations with First Nations and Indigenous people. Ms. Naylor: So I recall a lot of energy around the original Manitoba Climate and Green Plan. So, is that still guiding the work of this department, or is that old

October 11, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3127 report just languishing while the minister awaits the Dunsky report? Mr. Wharton: The member from Wolseley has a copy of the Manitoba Climate and Green Plan. Okay. This one didn't need to be dust off, because it 's been working pretty hard. Let's just run through some of it, just to kind of tie to your question of, is it sitting on a shelf somewhere. No, it 's not sitting on a shelf; it 's actually getting worked very, very hard. Four pillars, as a matter of fact, and I know the member knows the four pillars. We have climate, jobs, water and nature.

And I'll just run through some of the areas for the record and for the member, too, as well, on some of the areas that we've touched on already in the plan, of course, based on the four pillars. So, the first one was, again, mitigating green- house gas emissions, and I know that the member had asked about greenhouse gas emissions as well. And the efficiency trucking program provided $5.9 million for technology and devices to improve fuel efficiency and reduce emissions. I recall that an nouncement made by my –the former minister and my colleague, at–I believe it was at Gardewine.

And it was an ex - cellent opportunity for showing how private sector is being engaged and the reduction of greenho use gas emissions as well, and taking, really taking a lead in partnership with gov ernments, particularly our gov- ernment, to ensure, you know, that these technologies are getting implemented to help reduce that. So, again, the program led to re trofitting over 2,474 units.

Units like –you know, I come from a trucking business, so I kind of have a little bit of a background on what they're doing, and they go from courier vehicles to shunt vehicles, which are vehicles they use in their yard to move trailers around, to panel vans and right through to the big fleet, the tractor - trailer units, where their tractors are actually looking at better ways, more efficient ways. And also elec- trifying the fleet; we know that new–newer technolo- gy costs a lot, but we know that the environment and us not moving will cost our environment in the long run.

So we continue to do that. * (15:20) This particular program has reduced approx- imately 70,000 tons of cumulative greenhouse gas emissions while buildin g Manitoba 's expertise in clean technology in the trucking sector. The member knows we 're one of the largest trucking hubs in–well, per capital, in North America. We're the centre of Canada. We have some of the largest trucking firms in the world that are stationed here working out of Manitoba, and particularly out of Winnipeg. So, obviously, a very, very im portant sector for Manitoba, for the economy and for our environment.

So we 're taking action along with the private sector to do that. Another area that Efficiency Manitoba esta - blished was to meet legis lative targets for electricity and natural gas savings. So, Manitoba and Canada have committed –again, this was an an nouncement that I 'm sure the member 's aware of –$32.3 million over three years with the Efficiency Manitoba plan.

So this is part of that plan that we talked about earlier, on how Crown corporations are playing an active role in the reductions of the–not only the use of energy, but also moving to clean energy and also reducing green- house gas emissions all in parallel. So we know that Efficiency Manitoba is looking at Manitoba 's natural gas demand -side management programming, effectively doubling Efficiency Manitoba's program. So we 're moving away from – Efficiency Manitoba likes to expand and they 're expanding.

So what they 're doing is they 're moving away from residential-based support and programs to actually industrial, and moving–kind of getting out of that comfort zone that we all look at–we need to work on our residents. But we've got to look at industry because industry is playing a role and they want to play a role, especially the private sector. So, certainly, we wel - come that and, again, essentially, Manitoba – Efficiency Manitoba currently offers 35 programs across residential, industrial, commercial and agricul- tural customers. There's another one: agri culture.

We know we touched on ag earlier and that plays a big

part in one of the pillars, as well, and I 'll touch on that maybe a little bit later on, because we've still got lots of time to talk about the four pillars. Basically the power sector, Manitoba has the cleanest electricity gen eration in Canada. Well, re - cently I went up to a conference in Yukon up in Whitehorse, and we –all the environmental ministers from the provinces and territories met and we were the envy of the meeting, the federal -provincial-territorial meeting, because 99.7 per cent, essentially, of our grid generation is renewable sources.

So, what a great platform to stand on an d really trumpet the fact that we're already 99.7 per cent there. So the bar has been set, there's no doubt about that.

3128 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 11, 2022 Mr. Chairperson: The honour able minister 's time has expired. Ms. Naylor: I appreciate the minister wanted to use the opportunity to talk out the clock on what he per - ceives as the merits of the Manitoba Climate and Green Plan. My concern is that very few targets have been met, and many of those targets weren 't particularly meaningful. So–and now the government is spending money to create a new plan.

So, will there be targets, greenhouse gas emission reduction targets, specifically in the new plan that are a significant improvement on the original Manitoba Climate and Green Plan? Mr. Len Isleifson, Acting Chairperson, in the Chair Mr. Wharton: Well, hello, Mr. Chair, pleasure to meet you. Thank you–thank the member for the question, and if I heard the member correctly, I believe you were referring to a new plan that 's been introduced that takes us away from the original m ade-in- Manitoba climate plan. I just want to be clear on that. Ms.

Naylor: I'm referring to the Dunsky plan that you said would be released by the end of this year. Mr. Wharton: Great, thanks for clearing that up, ap- preciate it. As we talked about earlier, the–there are the four pillars in the plan and the first one being climate talks about energy as well and I–what I'll do is I'll provide– well, again, the member has a copy so I –maybe at page 10 in the Climate and Green Plan will illustrate what I'm going to present to the table right now. So, in the four pillars, there's actually four subsets of the pillars as well. So one of them is clean energy and energy strategy.

In that first pillar with climate too, a s well, we have the carbon pricing, we have sector emissions reductions and adaptation. So those four subsectors make up the climate pillar in the four- pillar plan. The next one is jobs, of course, and we talk about jobs. It 's innovation and clean tech, s o good, well - paying jobs in the new clean energy sector; financing and invest ment, green infra structure and skills and training, so those are four subsets of the jobs pillar in the plan.

Thirdly is water, which consists, again, of agricul- ture and land use, wetlands and watersheds, which our government is expanding on, of course. Our wetlands are important to–obviously to our climate and we–our government recognizes that and that 's why we 've acted on that subset in the pillar and we'll continue to on water quality and flood and drought as well. * (15:30) And then finally, on the nature pillar, we talk about parks and protected areas. Glad to be working on a number of initiatives on that front, as well. Wild species and habitat, con servation and forest and natural areas.

So, again, the energy strategy makes up one sub- set of a pillar and climate, and as we continue to move forward, the member will see more out comes on the subsets in each of the four pillars. Mr. Chairperson in the Chair Mr. Chairperson: Sorry, I didn't have my mic on, my apologies. The member from Wolseley. Ms. Naylor: Can the minister talk a little bit about the Navius Research project?

I 'm not sure, you know, what pillar this is applying to, but I understand that they've been engaged by the gov ernment to do research for the climate plan, and I'd like to know what they have done to date and how much they 've been paid. Mr. Wharton: I thank the member for the question on Navius. And, essentially, in 2019, an RFP was put out, and Navius was the successful bidder on the RFP to provide government with a host of information with respect to emissions reductions. And, again, they were, and the scope of the work, of course, would be public in the RFP.

And, certainly, the emissions reductions, and they focused on alternatives like, again, we talked about electric vehicles, but geothermal heating, hydrogen, heat pumps, many other areas where they could focus in on, which would actually benefit Manitoba Hydro as well, since Manitob a Hydro was so engaged in the Dunsky report and also pillar 1 in climate, where they can provide up- to-date infor mation, specs call it, if you want, on what actually will help reduce emissions by doing their thorough investigation when it comes to heat pumps and hydrogen and the like.

So, certainly, we're looking forward to having that as part of the pillar 1 in climate. * (15:40)

October 11, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3129 Again, many, many areas where the pillars have, well, getting to tentacles and reach out and invite other experts to come to the table to provide Manitobans with the best technology as we move forward to path of net zero. Ms. Naylor: I'm just going to repeat my original question: How much has Navius been paid to date? Mr. Wharton: We want to make sure that we provide the correct information, so we'd be happy to get that information to you shortly; and I didn' t want to hold up the clock any more.

So, if that 's okay with the member, we could move on to another question and then revert back once we provide the information. Ms. Naylor: We'll be in Estimates again tomorrow. Can the minister commit to providing that information tomorrow? Mr. Wharton: I can commit to providing it any time today or tomorrow or the next day. Ms. Naylor: I'll just ask the question tomorrow. Has the prov incial gov ernment completely ac - cessed funds available to them as part of the Low Carbon Economy Fund? Mr. Wharton: Again, thank the member for the question on the Low Carbon Economy Fund or LCEF. Great program.

Started, I know, right across the country, it was just pre -COVID, and certainly we were pleased to sign on at $66.8 million through the LCEF program. To date, we have spent –well, ac - tually, not us, it 's through two funds, actually. The efficiency trucking program and Efficiency Manitoba, $38.2 million has already been spent on pro gram- ming. It was about–almost a year during COVID where, obviously, the challenges of rolling out programming, whether it be resi dential or industrial, we know that the world had shut down for some time.

So there 's a bit of a delay in continuing those –that fine program- ming that was done up. * (15:50) So we, along with other juris dictions–the feds have provided an extension to go ahead and ensure that we don' t lapse –and we will not –the LCEF funding. And we 're looking forward to having that pool basically delivered to Manitobans by fiscal '23-24. So, pretty much on track, no different than other jurisdictions. COVID threw a wrench into a lot of areas, as we all know and we all lived through.

And, certainly, we 're pleased to see that Efficiency Manitoba has really ramped up now, post-COVID and moving forward with the LCEF fund to ensure it gets into Manitobans' hands. Ms. Naylor: So my under standing, then, is there 's about $28 million not yet spent of the Low Carbon Economy Fund. The minister can correct that if I have that number wrong and that the federal gov ernment has provided an extension into '23-24. So when is the exact expiry deadline with the extension and where will those ad ditional funds be spent? Mr. Wharton: Kind of a–thank you, Mr. Chair–two- part question.

First of all, by March 2024, the LCEF funds will be spent. And second is a little bit longer. So, again, as the member knows, departments will be going into Estimates very shortly for their fiscal – '22-23 fiscal years. And certainly don 't want to prejudge the outcome of the de partment going to Estimates, but I can tell the member that there will be, of course, an ask for a more –casting a larger net, per se, involving municipalities, private sector, industry, to tap into the remainder of the LCEF funds to help communities throughout the province and, of course, in Winnipeg as well.

So we're looking forward to getting into Estimates and moving that needle. We know we are motivated and we will have that $28.6 million fully spent by March 2024. Ms. Naylor: I'm going to move on to asking some questions about parks now. How much money has been paid to the company RA Outdoors –I realize they also maybe go by the parent company, Aspira –as part of their admin istra- tion of park passes and the sale of other permits? And if the minister could outline how much the gov ern- ment has spent year by year since they contracted with RA Outdoors. * (16:00) Mr.

Wharton: Thank the member from Wolseley for the question and just wanted to get on the record, too, just a little bit more back ground information too as well about e -licensing and how many e -licences or permits are being generated.

3130 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 11, 2022 So, Manitoba issued over 398,000 licences and permits, generating over $10.2 million. The licensing initiative is consistent with our commitment to–again, we want to make sure we 're maximizing value and ensuring that advancing innovative technolo gy solu- tions and also reducing red tape and delivering en - hanced public services for Manitobans, and that 's exactly what this has accomplished. Approximately 60 per cent of the licensing sales remain online.

The online service was, again, greatly enhanced through public service levels and eliminated the pre –the need for preprinting and distributing paper. I mean, people couldn 't even get a licence if they wanted to come up for a weekend, even a –for tourism, so, obviously, a great economic driver too, as well. For anybody wanting to come up here and hunt or visit one of our great parks, certainly, this provided that opportunity.

And, again, the imple mentation of the new licensing system, again, improves collection of data, also compliance and enforcement too, as well, and certainly aids in our conserva tion officers when they are doing their job. The question, also, from the member was how much was Aspira fees collected? Fees collected for fiscal '21-22: $1.329 million. Ms. Naylor: I have actually asked if I could hear how much w as collected year after year, over the last –I believe, it's been three years since these permits have been in use. But I appre ciate getting the number for '21-22.

Can the minister explain what role his gov ern- ment sees for private companies in the administration and operation of parks in Manitoba? * (16:10) Mr. Wharton: I thank the member for the question. The member knows that for several years parks have maintained –national parks have maintained agreements with com mercial operators in prov incial parks essentially for decades. That certainly hasn 't changed under our government and certainly was that way during the former government.

You know, and it 's been said many times in the House, and I believe I put it on record here last week as well, is our parks are not for sale, contrary to what the opposition would like to provide infor mation to Manitobans. But we know that they 're not, and cer - tainly Manitoba gov ernment is working with their commercial operators to enhance that ex perience for Manitobans when they visit our provincial parks. Also, looking at more part nerships with Indigenous folks as well going forward.

We have parks right throughout the province, as we know, and some of them border along communities–First Nation communities–and certainly there has been a lot of discussion with–led by First Nations and Indigenous folks with us –the whole of gov ernment, actually, through NR as well, on how we can continue to foster partnerships and grow together and ensure t hat not only are we enhancing the experience for visitors, but also enhancing a part nership with the Indigenous as well. So, yes, I think I 'll leave it there. I 'm sure the member for Wolseley (Ms.

Naylor) has another ques- tion on some of the great commercial operators have been running in our parks for decades. Ms. Naylor: Can the minister talk about –well, the agreement signed with the private company in St. Ambroise provincial park. You know, when we – my actual question previously had been about admin- istration or operation of parks, not specifically selling off parks, but that 's an example of an operation–a private operation–that has been introduced under this government.

Does the minister believe that this is, in fact, a good model and that there ought to be more of this being emulated in other areas of the province? Mr. Wharton: I thank the member for that question. Again, I'm sure we can all remember the–oh, call it the 300 -year flood in 2011 when essentially both east and west, north and south Lake Manitoba were– areas were devastated. And, certainly, St. Ambroise was one of those areas as well, being at the south basin, taking that north flow, pretty much essentially wiping out the whole area.

Again, I take the member back to my earl ier comments about–first of all, obviously, our parks are not for sale. We know that. But the member –I talked to the member about commercial operators have been there for decades operating, provi ding services to Manitoba park-goers. And some –and often re gions, too, as well, where really, it's remote, which makes it a challenge for anybody, whether you're providing it– a commercial service or even from the public side. So, certainly, any enhancements we can do to en- sure those parks remain open and ac cessible is what the focus is.

And this is an important takeaway for the member as well: the government retains full adminis- tration and control over all commercial operations in all our parks.

October 11, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3131 Ms. Naylor: Can the minister tell this commit tee whether or not there will be an increase in protected areas in the province this year? * (16:20) Mr. Wharton: I thank the member again for the question and–on protected areas. Of course, Manitoba will continue to recog nize the importance of these protected areas for sure.

Myself and–actually, my team and I were up in Yukon at Canadian Council of Ministers of the Environment, CCME, in August, just this past August, and we were able to engage with many –in many productive discussions with our territory and prov- incial colleagues, but also the federal minister, as well, Mr. Guilbeault. And we were able to carve out a little bit of time for a one-on-one with the minister, too, as well. And we did talk about protected areas and how im portant they are and how fortunate we are in Manitoba, parti- cularly in our North, to have some great areas up there, too, as well.

And, you know, Manitoba will continue to build a network of protected, conserved areas, absolutely this basically –to conserve ecosystems and maint ain biodiversity in many areas across the province. So, I also wanted to put on the record, too, as well, for the member, that we 're–when we 're looking at protecting protected areas, it is of the utmost im - portance to include discussions and partner with Indigenous folks as well.

And, as a matter of fact, we have met–the de partment and myself inclusive, two times already on this particular issue with Seal River and also had a meeting recently with the Fisher River Cree Nation as well. And working with them on how we can partner on ensuring that areas within the territory are protected. So it truly is a partnership. It needs to continue to be a part nership as we go forward, and certainly we want to be leaders in Manitoba when it comes to pro- tected areas. Ms.

Naylor: I'm aware of how little land in Manitoba has been protected under this government; it's actually really a tragedy over the last six years. And this was a significant commit ment of the former gov ernment, and there was, in fact–you know, I just recently went looking for that information on the government web- site about that commitment, and it's disappeared now from the website.

So I hear the minister saying that this is important, that he's partnering with Indigenous communities, but I'd really like to know what the targets are and what kind of commit ment this gov ernment will make to increasing protected areas in this coming year, in this coming budget. Mr. Wharton: Threw you off a little that time. I was quick to answer. And, again, thank the member for the question. And just take back and rewind to the comment the member from Wolseley made about the former gov- ernment and what their plan was.

Well, I 'd certainly welcome the member to provide that plan, because certainly nothing was done for 17 years under the former government. Unlike the former gov ernment, we have a plan, and that plan, as I spoke to earlier in my first answer, is ensuring that we talk about targets. The member talked about targets. Well, let's talk about targets. We won 't set targets. The gov ernment won't set targets. Why would we do that alone? I guess I'm going to ask the question of the member.

We need to ensure that targets are set in partnership with all the key stakeholders, including Indigenous folks, parti - cularly in the North, where we have a vast land that needs to be protected for sure, and finding that balance in concert and lockstep with Indigenous part nership and other stakeholders that will be at the table, that are at the table, as I mentioned in my

preamble the Fisher River and Seal –or Seal River and Fisher River Cree Nation, to name only two. So, certainly, we're on the right path, and we will continue to go down that path to ensure that we do move forward. And I know we've made a commitment to do that, and we will continue to see it through. Ms. Naylor: I do want to correct the record. The number of –the amount of land that was protected under the previous government was substantial, parti- cularly in the last few years, and it was a commitment that was made and was followed up on.

It 's been less than 1 per cent of Manitoba 's land that 's been pro- tected under this government in the last six years. So it's a fair question to know what kind of targets are in place. And I hope the minister 's aware that many Indigenous groups across the country have called on the protection of 30 per cent of lands by the year 2030, and so it would be really good to hear that the govern- ment's even thinking about this a little bit. * (16:30)

3132 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 11, 2022 So I 'm going to ask the gov ernment again: Knowing that, in fact, there 's been this call for 30 per cent of land protec tion, does this gov ernment have any intention in the next year to protect any lands in Manitoba? Mr. Wharton: Again, I certainly would welcome a copy of the member 's statement regarding the pro- tected areas that the member referred to under the former government. We know that, certainly, there was a lot of land that was, essentially, looked at during a number of issues.

And we know that during the Bipole III issue, and I know the member 's probably familiar with Bipole III and the 540 kilometres of torn- up land halfway around the province to run a bipole line back to the east part of the province was a–certainly a–if that was part of the plan, and I–probably was, I guess, but I don't know how they accounted for it, but they obviously did some thing with it when they were pounding an east -side road through protected forest and not running a hydro line down it, didn' t make sense. Anyways, I digress a bit.

Prov incial parks play a major role in protecting Manitoba's natural landscape. Manitoba has developed a draft prov incial park strategy to sustain Manitoba's parks. Again, parks are going to play a massive role in how we move forward with protected spaces, pro- tected areas.

And certainly, that will include, as I said in my first two responses, two part nerships sitting around the table ensuring that the interests of Indigenous, the interests of other stake holders and a partnership with the federal government, as well, who is also leading the charge in protected areas where we have open discussions and ensure that we map out a balance between protected areas, industry, stake- holders, Indigenous, of course, at the ta ble playing a very predominant role.

So I think I 'll leave it at that, and if the member still wants to go on land, I think I 've got another couple of answers for her. Ms. Naylor: I'm–I think the minister might not be familiar with the concept of protec ted lands or the work that's happened in the past, actually, under both previous governments. Between 1990 and 2018, this province moved from 350,000 hectares to 7.2 million hectares of protected land. And then, in the last five years of that time, in the–sorry, in the last five years of the previous government, there was a really in tentional push, and 2 per cent of–further of land was protected.

In the following five years, since 2016, 0.02 per cent of land was protected. So about 10 per cent of what was protected in the previous five years was protected between 2016 to 2021. So, we can talk about history all we want and what the minister thinks should or shouldn' t have happened, but I just want to know, does the minister have any commitment at all to protecting more land in this coming year or in the next five years if he has the opportunity to do so? * (16:40) Mr.

Wharton: Just before I get into talking more about parti cular areas and how really it 's a multi - pronged approach, the member had asked about the Navius contract. Year to date, a total of $92,000 has been spent. So, back to protected areas. Again, as I men - tioned, it 's just–it's more than just land. You know, you need to expand that way of thinking, and certainly transitioning–what our government has done is transi- tioned conservation districts to watershed boundaries based on ecology. So I know the member is probably familiar with that.

As a matter of fact, we' ve expanded our Watershed Districts Program the last three years in a row, even during COVID, where pretty much every - thing shut down. The team is still hard at work and, again, expanding that network to now 113- member municipalities. And I'd like to say, stay tuned, but I'll say more to come, because Manitobans –and particularly munici- palities and other districts across Manitoba –are step- ping up and they understand that delivering ecological programs across working landscapes is the way to go, including, by the way, $204 million into Conservation and GROW trusts.

So you have to–we believe, anyways –that you have to look at the big picture. And certainly, when we're having those discussions with the likes of Seal River and Fisher River Cree Nation and other stake - holders across the province, these are areas that come up when we talk about protected spaces, protected areas, and water plays a role. So we're certainly proud of the record that we have on both fronts, and we 'll continue to forge ahead to ensure that we're protecting spaces throughout the province.

October 11, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3133 Ms. Naylor: While we're on the topic of the im por- tance of protecting a wide range of biodiverse areas, both land and water, one of the areas that the previous government worked to strengthen protections for was peatlands. And I know that this gov ernment, in the Climate and Green Plan, specific ally talks about increasing protections for peatlands, and yet this most recent budget brought in, you know, fiscal policy that's at odds with that. I would think that there's now financial incentive to increa se peat harvesting in the province.

So I know that that, you know, that policy doesn't fall under this minister's budget, but it is his gov ern- ment's budget, so I'd like to know if this minister can speak to, you know, this policy that 's very much at odds with his own Climate and Green Plan commit - ment to protecting more peatland in the province. * (16:50) Mr. Wharton: As the member noted, this parti cular question really falls under NRND.

However, I 'm pleased to put on the record that it was our government that actually fully proclaimed the former gov ern- ment's stewardship act, Peatlands Stewardship Act, back in 2020, again, really giving us that balanced approach to, obviously, to the crucial landscape. So, pleased to put that on the record. The bill was introduced in 2015 by the former government, and our government fully proclaimed the bill in 2020. Ms. Naylor: I believe that I asked a question about if the incentives for peat harvesting are–if the minister sees these at odds with the goals of his department.

I admit there was a long break there, so I almost forgot what the question was when the answer came because it didn't match. But I will say, because we're almost out of time, I just have one more question under my umbrella of parks and protected lands, so I'll ask that and see if we can possibly get an answer today. Does the minister believe that there will be any change in special permits to access polar bear areas in Churchill this year? Mr. Wharton: Again, I thank the member from Wolseley for her question on polar bears.

And we–the polar bear areas that you're talking to really falls under NRND, but certainly, for the record, I would love to put on the record that my colleague introduced bill 76, The Coat of Arms, Emblems and the Manitoba Tartan Amend ment Act, which would designate the polar bear as an official prov incial em- blem to recog nize the im portant role polar bear cur - rently plays as an internationally recog nized symbol of Manitoba. Certainly, our gov ernment re cognizes the im - portance of the polar bear to the point where now it is official coat of arms. Mr. Chairperson: The hour being 5 p.m., committee rise.

ROOM 255 FINANCE * (15:00) Mr. Chairperson (Brad Michaleski): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now resume con sideration of the Estimates for the Department of Finance. Questioning for this de part- ment will proceed in a global manner. The floor is now open for questions. Mr. Adrien Sala (St. James): Welcome back, folks. Glad to see that those who were ill are once again better and are here to speak and connect. Thank you so much.

Just wanted to start out by talking a bit about some of the changes that were ma de at Hydro by this gov- ernment in terms of the release of a number of gov- ernment–of Hydro workers, hundreds and hundreds of workers, and their replacement by private contractors, many of whom are from out of province. So I'm hoping the minister can maybe just pro - vide, first of all, some numbers. What is the total number of Manitoba Hydro staff who were released since his government has come into power in 2016? * (15:10) Hon.

Cameron Friesen (Minister of Finance): Thank you for the opportunity to answer the member's questions about workforce and workforce numbers. I know that we have infor mation to table. We've been having–even as recent as the budgetary docu - ments that were developed in respect of Hydro. And those numbers indicated the w orkforce at Hydro in 2021 were 4,954. Anticipated numbers in 2022 were 5,023, and the planning assumptions are for workforce at Hydro to be 5,175 in 2023. So, Hydro continues to hire. Hydro continues to under take to build its workforce.

3134 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 11, 2022 But there's a good-news story here that this does give me the op portunity to tell. And that is –I just wanted to flag to the member that on page 26 of the Hydro's annual report –and I know we've brought a diverse number of documents to the table in these proceedings, but this is the Hydro portion of the Finance Committee of Supply. So I'll just reference for the first time this annual report released by Hydro just last week. And it in - dicates progress being made on targets and per - formance when it comes to diversity.

And so I do want to flag to members there: there's been an overall amelioration even in terms of Indigenous workforce at Manitoba Hydro. Province -wide workforce has gone from an 18 per cent target in '21-22 to an actual of 20 per cent. Likewise, the nor thern workforce that identifies as Indigenous has risen in year from 47 per cent to 49 per cent. Indigenous -in-management component has risen from 8 per cent to 9 per cent. And that's in addition to things like persons with dis abilities rising from 6 t o 8 per cent, visible minorities 9 to 10 per cent.

So, some very, very signi ficant gains in year–women in management, from 30 to 31 per cent. The member knows that a number of years ago now, there was an overall campaign initiative, if you will, to try to address Hydro workforce, and that had been largely done on a voluntary basis, where in- dividuals who were nearing retirement could elect to take their years of service and their pensionable benefits and, in many cases, additional payments, and to be able to leave a little early. And that was under - taken by a number of individuals.

There was a senior management trim of 15 per cent, a mandate given to all the Crown corpor- ations. I believe that would've been around 2017, but I stand to be corrected , and we can confirm that or otherwise provide information as the afternoon goes on. And so, that was important, to make sure that we were continuing to, as we said, get services to Manitobans and reduce that top-heavy administrative capability at many of our Crown corporations. So, as I indicated, you know, the workforce con- tinues to be built. Those diversity metrics show con- tinued improvement.

And then the other thing I was going to just speak to, and the member may have a follow-up question, is the member asked about contracts. Well, there was no campaign in which government or Hydro were direct- ing for people to go away as employees and come back as contracts, but contracting within Hydro has been a long- standing feature for some areas of the work.

For things like, in emergency circum stances, when it comes to responding for fires; if there are rebuilds to be done where they need to flex workforce because of things like, maybe, workforce inter - ruptions, as was done this summer through the gas division, when one union decided to go on strike. And so, in that case, they do have an ability to provide good service and ensure busi ness continuity and safety by bringing on contractors. And I'm sure the member would agree that those are provisions that are prudent and need to be taken to protect ratepayers and to protect safety.

So those are some answers I can give at this time, and I invite him to ask other questions as he may have. Mr. Sala: I do appreciate that information. It is good to hear that diversity metrics are improving; this is good news. We did not hear an answer to the question, though, however, about the total number of Hydro employees that were there when the minister's govern- ment came into power in 2016. So the question I'm hoping to get clarity on is: What was the total FTE within Hydro in 2016 when this government came into power? * (15:20) Mr. Friesen: I'm happy to answer the member's question.

First of all, I just will refer him to the Manitoba Hydro annual report. And I want to just indicate to him that he can see all operating statistics and financial statistics in the concluding part of that report, including beginning on one–on page 113, exactly the numbers he's looking for by operating year, and it goes back a number of years. So all of those numbers, in respect of capability of electrical systems supply, it talks about FTEs, there's revenues and expenditures, all by year and in a nice presen tation. So he can find all the FTEs for every year he's looking at.

I would want to, for context, 'indigacate' to the member that as I indicated to him, even, like, 2021, workforce at 4,954. In 2022, the–it was anticipated to be 5,023 and even then anticipated for 2023 at 5,175. Hydro continues to do busi ness. Hydro continues to operate. Hydro continues to hire.

October 11, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3135 And even in this environment, when workforce is challenging to get at, Manitoba has one of the lowest unemployment rates in the entire country. And that has been a source of strength for Manitoba, but certainly, it is also in creasingly a source of con - sternation for employers and those who are trying to find workforce. We know that the global pandemic signi ficantly interrupted those normal processes of onboarding new workers. Programs like the Manitoba Prov incial Nominee Program were significantly interrupted.

But also just the way people moved across the country seeking out new economic advantages for themselves and their families, that was also interrupted. And so we're seeing how that plays out. However, I would want to make a key clari fica- tion for the member, and that is that Hydro, you know, obviously is a very large utility that operates gen - erating largely hydroelectric. It sends that electricity down trans mission lines. It translates that power in places like at Dorsey and Riel stations.

It then sends that across the manifold of the province, where it translates into power for households, for companies, corporations, industries. It sends that power excess, above and beyond what our requirements are domestically, to customers outside Manitoba, both in the US and in Canada, and then part of that money, part of that export, goes on the spot markets, where a part of a broad array of electrical, both generators and transmitters, we can both receive inputs and provide distribution to others.

I say this in order to distinguish these operations of the cor poration from its activities in respect of capital. Capital. Every once in a while –and I would welcome the long conver sation about the needs for, and alternatives to, Keeyask and Bipole III–but when Hydro builds out a major project like this one – $8.3 billion in respect of Keeyask, significantly over budget, budgeted amounts that the former government hid from Manitobans –but when it does so, it must attract and engage additional workforce.

And I can indicate to that member that on page 77 of the expert review of B ipole III and Keeyask, it indicates there, in respect of Keeyask, for con - struction, 2,436 project -direct jobs, and then other direct jobs and em ployment stats of 2,175, and even indirect and induced, for a total em ployment–in person years, I should sa y, not just jobs, with person years–of 8,347. However–I mean, I believe at one point in time, Keeyask was North America's largest construction project. Many of those jobs, of course, came from outside of our project.

Many of those jobs paid income tax in other jurisdictions, was something that the NDP never disclosed to Manitoba. But clearly, the member understands that work- force must flex up and then it must return down on the completion of large capital projects. Cor poration makes every effort, o f course, in respect of its own employees, to reallocate them, but clearly a project of this size is a composite of both FTEs, own- source employees and contracted employees. Mr.

Sala: I'd like to ask the minister if he could provide the total value of the contracted-out labour on transmission and genera tion side of the organi zation in 2016, and then the total value of contracts issued in the 2021 fiscal year –so, the last fiscal year –sorry, '21-22 fiscal year. So again, to repeat: What is the total value of the contracted-out labour in 2016-17 fiscal year, and what was the total value of the contracted-out labour in the '21-22 fiscal year, spe cifically for gen eration and transmission? And I'm not looking for any infor mation related to capital. * (15:30) Mr.

Friesen: I welcome an opportunity to address the member's question. I want to indicate to the member that, you know, we've got very sig nificant capability at this table, including Mr. Rob Marrese, who's the assist ant deputy ministe r in Finance, responsi ble for Crown corporations in the secretariat. Jim Crone and others as executive directors in that secretariat give us good advice. I also have at the table, of course, my deputy minister, Rich Groen, my Treasury Board secretary analyst, as well as the executive financial officer for Finance, Mr. Ryan Klos. And so we've got a lot of depth at this table.

However, I believe that the member, at times, is at the wrong table. And we can provide a lot of detail, but we cannot provide the detail he would get from the Hydro board when the board actually comes to com - mittee on an annual basis. And in that construct, in that capacity, the member would have access to the CEO for Manitoba Hydro. He would have access to the executive financial officer, the chief operating officer, and through them, to the array of senior executives

3136 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 11, 2022 and managers who would be able to give the member the level of specificity that he is seeking in respect of a very, very specific request. The member's asking for a five-year parse-out of contracted labour, but only on genera tion trans mis- sion, and not in respect of capital, a total value. So, what I can do is indicate to the member that –that's– my encouragement to him would be, by all means, to be present at tha t com mittee when Hydro presents annually to this Legislature in respect of its annual report. Don't miss that meeting.

Be sure to ask that question. I can tell you, though, the answer to that question will probably go some thing like this: those levels of contracted employees fluctuate over annual operating year

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	42-4-71b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	42nd 4th hansardpdf 71b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	7a8452440c552af4e71e6fc898961d79f70963a5

Source file is stored in the law ingest library (pdf).