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December 22, 1999

37th Parliament, 1st Session

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Hansard Transcripts

vol. A

Hansard Transcripts

vol. B

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcript 1999-Dec-22 vol. A (PDF)

L033A - Wed 22 Dec 1999 / Mer 22 déc 1999

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

BURTCH CORRECTIONAL CENTRE

EDUCATION FUNDING

UNIVERSITY AND COLLEGE FUNDING

THREE CENTURY CLUB

POLICE HELICOPTER PROGRAM

APPOINTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSIONER

JIM MCCALLUM

UNITED WAY OF GREATER TORONTO

SEASON'S GREETINGS

STATUS OF BILL 46

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON REGULATIONS AND PRIVATE BILLS

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

TARTAN ACT, 1999 / LOI DE 1999 SUR LE TARTAN

ROSS MEMORIAL HOSPITAL ACT, 1999

MUNICIPAL AMENDMENT ACT (SIMCOE DAY), 1999 / LOI DE 1999 MODIFIANT LA

LOI SUR LES MUNICIPALITÉS (FÊTE DE SIMCOE)

MOTIONS

HOUSE SITTINGS

ORAL QUESTIONS

APPOINTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSIONER

HOMELESSNESS

APPOINTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSIONER

INVESTIGATION OF FORMER MINISTER

EYE CARE SERVICES

DOCTOR SHORTAGE

COLLECTION AGENCIES

NURSE PRACTITIONERS

MUNICIPAL TAXATION

TOY DELIVERY

INFRASTRUCTURE PROGRAM FINANCING

CANADA SUMMER GAMES

OMERS PENSION BOARD

LONG-TERM CARE

VISITOR

PETITIONS

MEDICAL LABORATORIES

LOCAL SUPPLIERS

KARLA HOMOLKA

GASOLINE PRICES

APPOINTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSIONER

KARLA HOMOLKA

HIGHWAY SAFETY

DENTAL CARE

KARLA HOMOLKA

TENANT PROTECTION

EDUCATION FUNDING

KARLA HOMOLKA

MATERS MORTGAGES

ORDERS OF THE DAY

APPOINTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSIONER

HARBOURFRONT TRAILER

PARK LTD. ACT, 1999

ASSOCIATION OF REGISTERED INTERIOR DESIGNERS OF ONTARIO ACT, 1999

TOWN OF PICKERING ACT, 1999

TOWNSHIP OF NORTH KAWARTHA ACT, 1999

PEMBRIDGE INSURANCE COMPANY ACT, 1999

BLUE MOUNTAIN VILLAGE ASSOCIATION ACT, 1999

MUNICIPALITY OF KINCARDINE ACT, 1999

ROYAL ASSENT / SANCTION ROYALE

UNIVERSITY OF OTTAWA HEART INSTITUTE ACT, 1999 / LOI DE 1999 SUR L'INSTITUT DE CARDIOLOGIE DE L'UNIVERSITÉ D'OTTAWA

The House met at 1330.

Prayers.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

BURTCH CORRECTIONAL CENTRE

Mr Dave Levac (Brant): Speaker, a very Merry Christmas to you and your family, and to the members of the House and to the citizens of Brant.

I rise today to inform the House of my deep concerns about the plans and actions this government is taking with regard to Burtch Correctional Centre just outside of Brantford.

This facility at one time was a centrepiece for true correction and rehabilitation of inmates. The programs were highly successful, innovative and modelled by many other facilities, especially the First Nations program there in Burtch-that is, until Mike Harris needed to change things to set the stage for privatization.

You know the scam by now: underfund, cut, overwork the employees, tell the world it's broken, create a crisis and then save the day. It's happening again. This time they cancelled a very successful, money-making farm program within Burtch, a highly successful canning operation, recycling program, soap-making program, and reduced the education program. What was the effect? A higher per diem and no rehabilitation. Create the crisis, then save the day.

Now, how are they going to save the day? They're going to bring in an American-style warehousing of inmates.

Here's the rub: The MPP for Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant, in which Burtch is located, thinks this is great. He thinks moving the inmates to Penetanguishene is the right thing to do. He thinks taking $20 million out of the local economy is good. He thinks transferring the job site instead of closing the site is cute. Why? Because guards then lose their jobs, with no successor rights, and the private prison gets to hire less expensive, poorly trained rookie guards. The government gets to bust another union.

Shame on the government.

EDUCATION FUNDING

Mr Doug Galt (Northumberland): I bring to your attention a report to parents released by a public school in my riding. The report states that "school priorities in spending" have been placed on "providing many new textbooks, instructional materials" and resources for our students to use.

I'm left wondering why the local school board and the opposition continually claim the sky is falling when it comes to classroom materials and new textbooks.

There are 284 students in this school, from junior kindergarten through to grade 6. They have 10 classroom teachers, a librarian, special education resource teachers, a core French teacher, a full- and part-time secretary, three educational assistants and two custodians. In addition, the report lists many other supports for special-needs students.

The chair of the Kawartha Pine Ridge board in a November media release said the government is "asking us to cut the heart and soul out of our children." This comment was absolutely inappropriate and very disturbing for its imagery of violence against children.

Our government is indeed fulfilling its promises on education. We promised to enhance classroom funding, to eliminate waste and duplication and we promised to provide the learning materials students need. We have done all of these things.

With that in mind, why is there such a disconnect between the board's claim and the school's report? Politics? You bet.

UNIVERSITY AND COLLEGE FUNDING

Mrs Marie Bountrogianni (Hamilton Mountain): My statement is for the Premier and for the Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities.

There are significant challenges facing all universities. Our obligation, according to the president of McMaster University, is not just to enrol every qualified student; we must provide them with a quality education. I agree wholeheartedly with Dr George and with all those who are concerned with post-secondary education.

In recent years, McMaster's ability has been challenged by an aging physical plant and by the call to their professors by other, better-funded jurisdictions. Their best and brightest young professors are leaving Ontario at a time when we need them the most.

This minister on numerous occasions throughout this session has promised a space in our colleges and universities for every qualified student.

THREE CENTURY CLUB

Mr John O'Toole (Durham): It's my pleasure to rise today in the House to congratulate four unique individuals who live in my riding of Durham.

In just a few short days they will have achieved a very special distinction by having lived in three centuries. They will join the ranks of about 1,000 Ontarians now being recognized through the Ministry of Citizenship, Culture and Recreation's Three Century Club.

It is difficult to imagine that when Fred West and Danny McCuaig of Bowmanville and Maude Waite and Beatrice Loates of Port Perry were born, the Wright brothers had yet to fly the first plane, women did not yet have the right to vote, the British Empire encompassed almost one quarter of the earth and Prime Minister Wilfrid Laurier had yet to claim the 20th century for Canada.

The Three Century Club is part of the ministry's Ontario 2000 initiative and was designed to honour those seniors who were born in the 19th century and join with us as we embark on the 21st century.

As the MPP for the riding of Durham, it is my pleasure to congratulate Fred, Danny, Maude and Beatrice on reaching this important milestone.

One of my predecessors, Mr Josiah Johnston Preston, Durham East MPP in 1899, would have sent their parents birth congratulations, as I would for their grandchildren today.

I think the Three Century Club is a fitting tribute to those who have helped to make Canada one of the best places in the world to live, to work and to raise a family.

On behalf of them and my constituents, I send a very merry Christmas and happy new year to all.

POLICE HELICOPTER PROGRAM

Mr Dominic Agostino (Hamilton East): I rise today to ask the Premier and the Solicitor General for support for the Hamilton police helicopter program. This was a 20-week pilot project that flew for 216 hours. During this time period, they responded to 152 calls for service, were first on the scene 45% of the time. Average response time was two and a half minutes. It gave direct support for 35 apprehensions, 45 traffic stops and work on special details on 99 occasions, and was also responsible for a marijuana seizure of over $2 million.

This program, which was a cost-sharing program with the province, Peel, Halton and Hamilton-Wentworth, provided great success for the police force, particularly when it came to high-speed chases. In every single case, of the chases involved, there was no damage, there were no injuries, there were apprehensions and the vehicle was recovered. It is a 100% track record and success record. We need the program to continue and it ended as of last Thursday.

Chief Robertson and the rest of the force are fully behind this program and it has proved itself. I know the province believes in this program. I know the province has a special interest in policing. You have a responsibility to become involved and to help regional forces.

I today ask the Premier and the Solicitor General to continue their support for this program. It is now out of commission. It cannot start up again until you come through with the money. It would be a great gift for the people of Hamilton, for the police of Hamilton, for the people of Ontario, if this government today announced ongoing funding to continue the helicopter program in Hamilton-Wentworth.

APPOINTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSIONER

Mr Rosario Marchese (Trinity-Spadina): I haven't had an opportunity yet to comment on the Gord Miller affair and since I only have two minutes, or at least a minute and a half, I wanted to be able to put that on the record today. I tell you I am opposed to this proposed appointment because I think it's wrong.

When I was a member of the government agencies committee, they used to be the bloodhounds on that committee, like German shepherds, sniffing out New Democratic Party appointments, and they were always calling the media and saying: "Come, we got a surprise for you. We got a New Democrat, a new catch-of-the-day." Those were the good old days of the Tories, and they said when they got into government: "We won't be the same. No siree, we won't make any appointments that will be partisan." Unlike New Democrats, they were going to be different.

Now, of course, they're in power and 99% of all the appointments are Tory, but because that is the case nobody fights it because it's common. That's what they do. They expect it and nobody, not the media, not anyone, seems to care any longer about the fact that these appointments are Tories.

Unlike the Ombudsman, which had a three-party agreement, this appointment for the Environmental Commissioner does not have a three-party agreement. That's why it's profoundly wrong. That person should be inde pendent, above-board and above partisanship and that is why we're going to oppose that appointment.

JIM MCCALLUM

Mr R. Gary Stewart (Peterborough): The residents of my riding of Peterborough have once again made an impression on the international stage. I'm very proud today to recognize Jim McCallum, a semi-retired dentist from my riding.

Mr McCallum is the president of the Peterborough Friends of Honduran Children, a group that has recruited local companies to help improve the quality of life in Honduras, the poorest country in Latin America.

In recognition of his efforts, Mr McCallum was recently awarded the YMCA Peace Medal for his realization of the YMCA statement on peace. It states: "Peace has many dimensions. The responsibility for peace begins with each person, and extends to community life and national activities."

The government is committed to encouraging volunteerism in this province. The efforts of these unsung heroes are truly the ones that make this province a better place to live. I am pleased to see volunteerism included in the new curriculum so that our young Ontarians can learn how to give a bit of themselves in order to help others in need.

On the eve of the new millennium, I would encourage all Ontarians to reflect on the way they can make the world a better a place in which to live. I'd like to thank Jim McCallum for his spirit and for his giving nature, but most of all the people of Honduras want to thank you for giving them a reason to look forward to this new millennium.

UNITED WAY OF GREATER TORONTO

Mr George Smitherman (Toronto Centre-Rosedale): As 1999 comes to a close, I wish to pay tribute to the United Way of Greater Toronto. This year, the United Way will meet their goal of almost $63 million.

It's fitting that at this time of the year, when the differences between those who have so much and those who have so little are so stark, we should thank president Anne Golden, her staff and especially the countless volunteers who have helped to meet this ambitious goal.

My riding is home to the United Way offices, but more importantly, it is home to a vast cast of United Way-funded agencies. These are the front-line agencies expected to pick up the pieces when the government exists stage right. Agencies like the 519 Church Street Community Centre, Dixon Hall and East End Literacy remain steadfast in their support of real people.

In the next few days, the United Way member agencies will play silent Santa to tens of thousands of children in our city, children who make up an ever-present underclass. I cannot imagine the feeling that comes from being unable to provide for your children. Thankfully for many, the United Way prevents that indignity.

Early in the new year I'll be launching a major fundraising effort for the United Way. For three months I'll be boxing with Florida Jack and eating properly, with serious weight loss in mind. Sponsors are encouraged on a per-pound basis. I'll benefit from better health and the less advantaged in my community will benefit through the United Way, as always.

SEASON'S GREETINGS

Mr Wayne Wettlaufer (Kitchener Centre): Mr Speaker, I would like to wish you and every member here the tidings of the season, a happy Hanukkah, a merry Christmas and a happy new year.

We end this year with Canada again being recognized by the United Nations for having attained the highest quality of life for its citizens of any country on earth.

On the international scene, Canada is respected as a peacekeeper whose troops are deployed throughout the world in an effort to stop bloodshed and to try to bring a better quality of life to the citizens of many countries which are not as blessed as ours. On the national level, Canada is both peaceful and economically prosperous. Our philosophy is based on the principles of democracy, ethics, honesty and hard work.

Canada's economic prosperity is setting new records. This season's Christmas retail sales are expected to hit a record $45 billion. This past weekend alone, Canadian retailers enjoyed their strongest shopping weekend in history, with over $3 billion in sales.

It is only through a strong, stimulated economy that tens of thousands of new jobs are being created monthly, which is the only direct manner in which problems such as child poverty can be attacked. As a result of this government's "right on target" economic policies, we end this year with Ontario again being the engine of the Canadian economy.

Today we should count our blessings. We are truly blessed to live in such a wonderful part of the world.

STATUS OF BILL 46

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Yesterday the member for Scarborough-Agincourt introduced a bill entitled the fairness for taxpayers bill, the more days in the House for the Premier and fewer cheap photo ops act.

Aside from various other difficulties, I had found that the bill introduced was in unilingual format, which is contrary to subsection 3(2) of the French Language Services Act. I must therefore advise the House that this bill contravenes standing order 33(

d) and will be removed from the Orders and Notices paper.

Mr Gerry Phillips (Scarborough-Agincourt): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I appreciate your ruling and accept it. I just wanted to assure the supporters on all sides of the House and in all three caucuses that I will be reintroducing the bill and looking forward to your continued support when it is reintroduced.

The Speaker: I thank the member.

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON REGULATIONS AND PRIVATE BILLS

Mrs Claudette Boyer (Ottawa-Vanier): I beg leave to present a report from the standing committee on regulations and private bills and move its adoption.

Clerk at the Table (Ms Lisa Freedman): The standing committee on regulations and private bills presents the committee's report and moves its adoption as follows:

Your committee begs to report the following bill without amendment:

Bill Pr15,

An Act to change the name of The Corporation of the Township of Kincardine-Bruce-Tiverton to The Corporation of the Municipality of Kincardine.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Shall the report be received and adopted? Agreed? Agreed.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

TARTAN ACT, 1999 / LOI DE 1999 SUR LE TARTAN

Mr Murdoch moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 49,

An Act to adopt an official tartan for Ontario / Projet de loi 49, Loi visant à adopter un tartan officiel pour l'Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Mr Bill Murdoch (Bruce-Grey): This bill was around in the last session, introduced by Lillian Ross, and never came to fruition, so hopefully in this session it will. I think Ontario needs a tartan, as it will fit in very nicely with Tartan Day on April 6, which this House also approved. Maybe some of the new members won't know that, but April 6 is Tartan Day, and after this bill is approved we'll have our own tartan in Ontario.

The Speaker: I can tell the member we all look forward to seeing him in his kilt on that day.

ROSS MEMORIAL HOSPITAL ACT, 1999

Mr Stewart moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill Pr5,

An Act respecting The Ross Memorial Hospital.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Pursuant to standing order 86(a), this bill stands refers to the Commissioners of Estate Bills.

MUNICIPAL AMENDMENT ACT (SIMCOE DAY), 1999 / LOI DE 1999 MODIFIANT LA

LOI SUR LES MUNICIPALITÉS (FÊTE DE SIMCOE)

Mr Hastings moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 50,

An Act to amend the Municipal Act to name Civic Holiday as Simcoe Day / Projet de loi 50, Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les municipalités en vue de désigner le Congé civique sous le nom de fête de Simcoe.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Mr John Hastings (Etobicoke North): The intent of this bill is to really honour Mr Simcoe, who was the founder of this great province.

MOTIONS

HOUSE SITTINGS

Hon Norman W. Sterling (Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, Government House Leader): I move that, pursuant to standing order 9(c)(i), the House shall meet from 6:45 pm to 9:30 pm on Wednesday, December 22, 1999, for the purpose of considering government business.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Ms Marilyn Churley (Broadview-Greenwood): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I'm asking for unanimous consent. I rise on a very important issue, that being the transportation of plutonium waste along Ontario highways. I ask for unanimous consent to do second and third readings of my Bill 34,

An Act to amend the Dangerous Goods Transportation Act to prohibit the transportation of Nuclear Material.

The Speaker: Is there unanimous consent? I heard some noes.

Mr James J. Bradley (St Catharines): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: Once again I seek unanimous consent of the government-

Interjections: No.

Mr Bradley: You have to hear it first-for second and third reading for my gas price bill, Bill 16.

The Speaker: Is there unanimous consent? I heard some noes.

ORAL QUESTIONS

APPOINTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSIONER

Mr Dalton McGuinty (Leader of the Opposition): My question is for the Deputy Premier. This year we sat seven days in the spring, 33 in the fall. You have limited debate on nearly one half of the government bills that were introduced. We in the opposition were lucky if we got eight hours of debate on any particular bill. No travelling committees have done any work this fall. You have provided yourself with new dictatorial powers in one of your bills. You have revived the power to bully counties into restructuring. This afternoon you will undoubtedly be proceeding with ramming through the appointment of Mike Harris's friend as our new Environmental Commissioner. In

summary, your government has relentlessly attacked the democratic underpinnings of this Legislature.

My question for you is, what have you got against the democratic process, which to this point in time has served so well in ensuring that we had strong laws and a strong Ontario?

Hon Ernie L. Eves (Deputy Premier, Minister of Finance): I would like to remind the leader of the official opposition that during the last Parliament this government sat 12% more sessional days than the NDP government and 45% more than the Liberal government, of which you were a member. Is that what he means by sitting less and less-45% more than the government of which you were proud to be a member? Why didn't you resign from that government if you thought they sat so little?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Order. Minister of Education, come to order. Member for Windsor West, come to order, please.

Mr McGuinty: The Environmental Commissioner is a non-partisan officer of this Legislature and should be seen as such. That individual is to answer to all of us, not just to the government members or to the Premier. You know that only Conservative MPPs favour the appointment of this individual as the Ontario's new Environmental Commissioner.

What I'm really worried about is the precedent that this is setting for our province. If Mike Harris is able to impose the appointment of his friend and political ally for such an important non-partisan position, what is next? Are other very important and supposedly non-partisan jobs up for grabs for friends of the Premier? Can we expect that you're going to ram through the appointment of Tom Long as Ontario's new Chief Election Officer? When are you going to appoint Conrad Black as the Provincial Auditor, or Brian Mulroney as the new Integrity Commissioner?

Hon Mr Eves: Since the government has been in power, we have had 3,603 reappointments. Some 2,277 of those were reappointments of people who were appointed either by Bob Rae's government or by David Peterson's government. That's 63% of all the appointments or reappointments made. That doesn't sound to me like a very partisan appointments procedure.

Mr Miller is a very qualified individual to be Environmental Commissioner. Are you suggesting that despite the fact that he's a qualified individual, the fact that he has some correlation to the Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario should disqualify him from becoming the Environmental Commissioner? Is that what you're suggesting?

Mr McGuinty: This is not some kind of a distant relationship with the Conservative Party of Ontario. This is a man who has sought political office under the stripe of the Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario. This is a man who did the same thing for the federal Progressive Conservative Party. This is a man who holds the position of the federal riding president of the Progressive Conservative Party. This is not what you call a distant passing relationship. In addition to all of that, this man is a personal friend of the Premier.

This appointment is a very important appointment. It is one that must be seen as non-partisan and at arm's length from the government. It is one that should be approved by all three political parties. Deputy Premier, how can you possibly justify the appointment of this man in the vein of a non-partisan appointment by this Legislature?

Hon Mr Eves: I note that when the leader of the official opposition is talking about partisan political appointments and people who have run for different political parties, he neglects to name off some names like Marion Boyd, Dave Cooke, Floyd Laughren, Gilles Morin, Bernard Grandmaître and Frank Miclash. How come you didn't rhyme those off when you were talking about people who have run for different political parties?

HOMELESSNESS

Mr Dalton McGuinty (Leader of the Opposition): A question for the Deputy Premier: Before the Christmas break in 1992, your boss, Mike Harris, had the following to say in this Legislature. "I suggest to the members of the government, when they go home over this Christmas holiday, that they reflect on the most vulnerable in our society and the back of the hand that they have received from this government in 1992."

We are now nearing the one-year anniversary of Anne Golden's report on homelessness. Her report detailed in dramatic fashion how your government's policies caused an increase in homelessness, particularly for our children and our young people.

Anne Golden found that since 1992, hostel use by youth is up by 80% and use by families has risen by 123%. She found that there are 40,000 children in Toronto alone living in families that are vulnerable to becoming homeless.

Minister, when you go back to your riding, will you be reflecting on the most vulnerable in our society and the back of the hand that they have received from your government?

Hon Ernie L. Eves (Deputy Premier, Minister of Finance): Nobody, I believe, in the province is happy when people are homeless and people live in some degree of poverty or another, and find themselves there through no fault of their own, quite frankly. The government is doing what it can to try to provide opportunities for those people either to educate themselves or to improve upon their job skills to bring them into the workforce, if and where possible. However, that's not always possible, and our obligation as a government and as a society is to take care of the people who can't take care of themselves, that having been said.

Mr McGuinty: It might be worth our while to take a look at the record of this government when it comes to helping out the homeless and the hungry. This is what you have done: You have ended rent controls, you have cancelled 17,000 new affordable housing units, you have cut welfare to our poorest and our neediest, and you have closed psychiatric hospitals. The result was predictable.

It was the following: Rents have increased dramatically, more people and families are being evicted in Ontario than ever before, families are now being told that the waiting list for affordable housing is 12 years long, hostel use by families and youth has doubled, and there are more poor people living in Ontario today than at any other time in our history.

In 1992, Mike Harris also had the following to say, "Let me hope that we can do better for you"-the hungry-"in 1993, and for the homeless." My question for you: What is your hope for those who are hungry and those who are homeless in the year 2000, and when are you going to start to help instead of hindering?

Hon Mr Eves: First of all, over 400,000 Ontarians are no longer on welfare who were on welfare when our government was first elected. When this government came into office in 1995 there were 1.3 million people on welfare, the highest per capita rate in the entire country of Canada. That is the legacy that the Peterson and Rae governments left the people of Ontario. I am now proud to say that 400,000 of those people are no longer on the welfare rolls, and our goal is to make sure that as many as possible are removed from the welfare rolls.

Mr McGuinty: The fact of the matter is that there are more children growing up hungry in Ontario today than ever before. There are more families growing up in poverty today than ever before in the history of our province.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Order.

Mr McGuinty: When it comes to your lack of activity-

Interjection.

The Speaker: Order. This is the last warning for the Minister of Education. If she does it again, I will name her-the last warning.

Mr McGuinty: When it comes to your commitment to fight homelessness, you have spent less than one quarter of what you promised to spend. You promised to spend $100 million. Half of that came from the federal government and you spent less than one quarter. You haven't announced any details on how or when this is going to help house our poor. In the area of supportive housing, all that you've done is send out press releases. There is not a single new unit that has been built. When it comes to your PST rebate for new affordable housing, which you have said so much about, that's not going to cost you a penny because there is no new affordable housing being built today in Ontario.

Minister, when are you going to turn your empty promises on homelessness and poverty into real action to help people who are in real and pressing need?

Hon Mr Eves: We have doubled the community start-up grant for homeless families. We have introduced an Ontario child care supplement for working families. This is going to help some 350,000 children in Ontario. The program has grown to a $200-million program. We have invested $45 million more in the Trillium drug program to ensure that 140,000 working poor receive assistance. We have added over 500 drugs to the Ontario drug benefit program. Some 650,000 low-income earners who previously paid income tax now pay no personal income tax whatsoever as a result of some of the measures we have taken. Those are just a few of the measures we have taken.

With respect to housing, you might want to get Jean Chrétien's phone number and ask him why the federal government has totally abandoned housing for anybody in the entire country.

APPOINTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSIONER

Mr Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): My question is for the Deputy Premier. I want to ask the Deputy Premier to give some direction to other members of the government. It must be clear to you now that the person you want to appoint to become the Environmental Commissioner of Ontario doesn't have and can't have any public credibility. Environmentalists across the province are united in one voice in saying very clearly that to appoint a political backroom operator of the Conservative Party into this important job discredits the job.

Gord Perks of the Environmental Alliance and Paul Muldoon from the Canadian Institute for Environmental Law and Policy have said this would be just a very bad appointment.

Deputy Premier, it's not too late. Would you direct the committee to reconsider, to find a candidate who would enjoy the confidence of everyone here who especially would have the confidence of the public out there? Would you do that?

Hon Ernie L. Eves (Deputy Premier, Minister of Finance): The committee has recommended a candidate through the same process that your government used when you were in government with respect to an Environmental Commissioner in 1994.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Supplementary.

Ms Marilyn Churley (Broadview-Greenwood): Minister, in 1994-and you would know this; you were here-the process worked. We advertised in the press, we had over 200 applications and, most important, we found a candidate all three parties, including the Mike Harris Tories, could support. It was unanimous.

Minister, listen carefully, please. For this position to work, the public must have the confidence that if the Environmental Commissioner tells them things are fine, they are indeed. You and I both know that when Gord Miller says things are fine, nobody outside of the party is going to believe him. I ask you again, will you support the motion to send this committee back for reconsideration?

Hon Mr Eves: The honourable member is saying that she doesn't like the decision a committee of the Legislature made, therefore she wants to revisit the decision. We're using exactly the same procedure that your government used in 1994. Mr Miller is a more than qualified candidate to be the Environmental Commissioner.

Ms Churley: The government minister is still not listening to a very grave problem here. Have you heard what the environmentalists across the province are saying? Some of the multi-stakeholder task forces that were brought together from all sectors are very concerned about what you're doing here. Let me quote from one of them: "The commissioner position will be transformed from a watchdog into a lapdog. There is a critical need for an independent review of the government's environmental performance to track the impact of the many cuts they have made to environmental programs, staff and budget."

I say to the minister, the process in this committee was not conducted properly. There was not given an opportunity, until I pushed it, to ask Mr Miller about his political connections, which was a legitimate thing to do in this case.

Minister, this is a very important position for all Ontarians and to every member in this House, not just your government. I ask you again, will you reconsider?

Hon Mr Eves: Mr Miller's qualifications speak for themselves. He worked in the Ministry of the Environment for some 14 years. He's headed up environmental groups and conservation groups concerned with water quality and supply in Lake Nipissing and Trout Lake, among other things. He has a record that's very creditable. Obviously the human resources department assisting the Legislative Assembly committee felt the same or he wouldn't even have been interviewed for the job. The committee has chosen him as the successful candidate. We are following exactly the same procedure that was good enough for you and your government in 1994.

INVESTIGATION OF FORMER MINISTER

Mr Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): A further question for the Deputy Premier: For the past two and a half months the Ontario Provincial Police have been investigating the activities of your former Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing. Today we understand the OPP put out a press release which says no evidence of criminal wrongdoing. But you and I both know that there are other details that may not be criminal that are certainly of interest to the conduct of your government.

We know that the former minister was alleged to have been channelling access through his personal lawyer, who is also the lawyer for many of his companies. We know that his personal lawyer has gotten a very lucrative contract with your Ontario Realty Corp, the realty corporation itself being the subject of allegations of wrongdoing and corruption and the subject of a number of lawsuits.

The Premier said he would make all of the details public. Will you do that today, Deputy Premier?

Hon Ernie L. Eves (Deputy Premier, Minister of Finance): The government has no details other than the same press release that the leader of the third party has. The OPP have stated in their press release that they have completed their investigation, that they found no evidence whatsoever for laying of any criminal charges. That's as much as he knows, that's as much as we know.

Are you suggesting, I say to the leader of the third party, that we now have access to OPP investigations of any individual in our society? They've obviously issued a press release. If there's a report to be made public, the OPP will make the report public.

Mr Hampton: I'm simply taking the Premier up on what he said two months ago. Two months ago he said-and he said it again yesterday-that he would make the details of what has been learned public.

Let me get across exactly what I think the public needs to see. One of the things that emerged during the investigation, the discussion about Mr Gilchrist, is that Mr Gilchrist was found guilty of tax evasion. I think the public deserves to know those details. If your government put Mr Gilchrist in the cabinet, if you're considering putting Mr Gilchrist back in the cabinet, I think those are details that ought to be open to the public. What exactly did happen to the criminal charges of tax evasion? There was a finding of guilt and I understand that was upheld on appeal.

Those are the details that I think the public needs to know. If your government is going to appoint cabinet ministers, those are the details that I think you should make public. Are you going to make the full report public?

Hon Mr Eves: First of all, there is no report I know of that has been prepared on this case. The OPP have issued a press release today. You know as much about it as we know about it. The press release speaks for itself.

The Premier held a press conference at 12:45 today. He indicated that he met with Mr Gilchrist for the very first time, discussed with him certain actions and comments that he is alleged to have made during the course of the investigation, told them that they were inappropriate and has chosen not to put him back in cabinet at this point in time.

EYE CARE SERVICES

Mr James J. Bradley (St Catharines): I have a question for the Minister of Health. You'll recall that there is an eye-care crisis in the Niagara region, and thousands of people will be forced to travel to Hamilton to receive their eye care as a result of your action.

Dr Jeffrey Sher, who is the chief of the department of eye medicine and surgery at Hamilton Health Sciences Corp, says that your solution is bogus. He says the following: "Please be advised that the provision of all ophthalmology services in the Hamilton area is currently under significant stress due to manpower shortages. Access to ophthalmology services in Hamilton is already significantly restricted. Waiting lists for consultations and surgery are exceedingly long.

"The seven non-surgical ophthalmologists in Hamilton are unavailable for urgent or emergency care. Five out of seven are between ages 62 to 70 and have retired from surgical practice. Their clinical availability is part-time to various degrees. These individuals are likely to further reduce their practices over the next number of years. We are sitting on a human-resource time bomb in this specialty."

Will you now admit that your solution of forcing people from the Niagara region to go to Hamilton for eye care services is not a suitable solution?

Hon Elizabeth Witmer (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): As the member knows, the government has worked very hard to encourage more specialists to practise in Ontario, particularly in the underserviced areas. In fact, the number of specialists has actually increased by 238 since 1997.

When we come to the issue of the specialists retention initiative, each year it is determined by the Ontario Medical Association and the ministry which physicians will be exempt from the impact of the threshold. When physicians want to appeal decisions that have been made, they certainly have the opportunity to do so.

Mr Bradley: I'll quote further from the letter, which really demonstrates for the people of the Niagara region and Hamilton how inadequate your response is. They say: "We suggest that you re-evaluate how these ratios are being used in light of current realities. We can assure you that Hamilton ophthalmologists cannot handle the primary and secondary eye care needs of the entire central-west region. We are barely coping with our own needs. We wish to advise you in advance that urgent and emergency eye care problems for the Niagara region cannot be dealt with by referral to Hamilton.

We have little capacity to accept these cases. We consider the ophthalmologists in the Niagara region responsible for these patients. We urge you to resolve this issue as soon as possible."

In the short and medium term, will you now lift the cap on ophthalmologists in the Niagara region until such time as we have a sufficient number of ophthalmologists to serve the people in the Niagara region and not force them to head down the Queen Elizabeth Highway to Hamilton?

Hon Mrs Witmer: As the member knows, it is the physician services committee that makes the determination, and I would recommend that certainly this situation would be reviewed.

There are others within the province who have applied for exemption, and I would strongly recommend that this be communicated to the ministry and that the situation be reviewed in light of the additional information. I think everyone wants to ensure that the appropriate number of specialists are available to meet the needs of people in your community and throughout the entire province.

DOCTOR SHORTAGE

Mr Marcel Beaubien (Lambton-Kent-Middlesex): My question is for the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care. In the past number of years I've queried you on the underserviced areas in Ontario and the shortage of family physicians in Lambton-Kent-Middlesex.

Interjections.

Mr Beaubien: If you'd give me a couple of minutes and listen, this is a serious matter in my riding. I'm sure for the member for Chatham-Kent-Essex it's probably the same thing.

On December 9 I received another letter from the town of Parkhill questioning the shortage of family physicians. Today the report from Dr McKendry has been released. Apparently it's a fact-finding report. I haven't had a chance to see it. Minister, could you please tell the Legislature and my constituents what steps you plan to take with regard to the recommendations made by Dr McKendry?

Hon Elizabeth Witmer (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): I'm very pleased to respond to the member that indeed Dr McKendry has publicly shared his fact-finding report with us at the Ministry of Health. It's now available to the public. I'm also very pleased to respond that Dr McKendry has indicated that the initiatives the government has undertaken thus far show that we are on the right track to improve access to family physicians and specialists.

As a result of his report, I'm very pleased to indicate today that we are going to be expanding some of our initiatives, particularly in the field of foreign-trained doctors. I'm very pleased to be able to say today that we are going to expand the capacity by 50% for foreign-trained doctors. They'll be able to access the international medical graduate program. That will commence in July 2000. Also, for students who have gone to the United States, we are going to be funding additional post-graduate training in Ontario.

We will be funding up to 15 training positions in order to attract those individuals back to Ontario.

Mr Beaubien: I'm sure my constituents in Lambton-Kent-Middlesex will be very pleased to hear this information that you passed on to the House today. You've also taken the wind out of my sails with regard to my supplementary question, because you've already answered it. I guess I could ask, when do you plan on initiating these particular processes that you've just talked about?

Hon Mrs Witmer: The initiatives I've talked about, such as the expansion of opportunities for foreign-trained doctors by 50%, the 15 additional training physicians for those who have done their training in the US to return to this province-those are all going to be targeted at bringing people back into underserviced areas, specialties that are underserviced. We're also going to have an expansion of the re-entry training/return-of-service program. We'll be expanding that from 25 to 40 positions. We'll be doubling the number of community development officers. We're expanding the northern training program.

The other piece of good news for the member and 58 other communities in our province today is that we are making an additional $60 million available to those hospitals in the province that have less than 35,000 visits to their emergency rooms. This will allow them to keep those emergency rooms open 24 hours a day. I'm pleased that St Catharines is included on the list.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): New question.

Mr John Gerretsen (Kingston and the Islands): I would like to return to exactly the same issue of doctor shortages. If there's one thing that the minister has acknowledged today, it is that it is not just a distribution problem, which is what you have been saying for the last six months here; there's actually a shortage.

Let me ask you this: We are still short, according to your own records, some 422 doctors. The 50 positions that you talked about is a step in the right direction.

I'd like to talk to you about the case of Dr Rawani. He's one of the very many foreign-trained doctors in this country. Let me just tell you what he has done. He came here with his family two years ago, after having spent seven years at one of the centres of excellence in a hospital in Pakistan. He passed a Canadian medical council evaluating exam, giving him the equivalency of Canadian medical graduate, yet since that time he has run into nothing but roadblocks in order to get approved as a physician in this province.

What are you doing, Minister, to fast-track those qualified foreign physicians to make sure that the people of Ontario who lack medical services can get those services as soon as possible?

Hon Mrs Witmer: What we're doing, as I've indicated today, is immediately responding to Dr McKendry's report today. These are the short-term initiatives that we're able to put in place. It amounts to a total of an additional $11 million to make sure that underserviced areas of the province that need family physicians and parts of the province that need specialties that are lacking are going to have them. When we take a look at the fact that we're going to be increasing the capacity for foreign-trained doctors by 50%, that is certainly very significant movement.

If we need to take a look at further dialogue with the colleges, because it is the colleges, of course, that do the licensing of the doctors, we need to communicate. But what we are also doing today is that we have designated Dr Peter George, who heads up McMaster University, to head up our expert panel to develop the long-term strategies that we need to ensure we have the appropriate number of health human professionals to meet the needs of our population today and in the future.

Mr Gerretsen: Just so I am clear and the people of Ontario are clear, when you're talking about increasing the foreign-trained doctor capacity by 50%, you're only talking about 12 positions, because currently only up to 24 medical graduate positions are available under the international medical graduate program. I was wrong when I assumed there were 50; it's 50% of 24, which is only 12 additional positions.

Let me just quote to you what Dr Rawani has said: "At no time am I suggesting that the medical doctors from `approved' medical schools overseas should set up a medical practice without first proving the necessary skills and expertise. However, after passing the evaluating exam there should be no discrimination. I have learnt that at every step of pursuing my field I will have to encounter different standards and feel that my rights are being jeopardized."

Minister, you're in charge of the health of the people of Ontario. What are you doing to ensure that the College of Physicians and Surgeons, the OMA and your own ministry work together to do away with the discriminatory tactics that Dr Rawani and many other-

The Speaker: Order; the member's time is up.

Hon Mrs Witmer: There has been considerable dialogue, and I do believe the dialogue will continue. First of all, we need to continue to recognize that it is the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada and the College of Family Physicians of Canada and the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario who determine the standards required to receive a licence to practise medicine in Ontario. These policies exist to ensure that all physicians meet the standards and qualifications to be certified to practise in Ontario.

What we are doing is that we have immediately ensured that the capacity is increased by 50%. However, the panel being set up will continue to further look at how we can ensure that we have the appropriate number of family physicians and specialists in the province.

COLLECTION AGENCIES

Mr Bart Maves (Niagara Falls): My question is for the Minister of Consumer and Commercial Relations. The Collection Agencies Act, as it now reads, restricts non-resident ownership of collection agencies that operate in Ontario. In the Niagara region there is an Ontario-based company that has indicated it would be willing to expand its 100-person workforce by up to another 250 employees by spring if this restriction is lifted. Ontario is the only province in Canada with this kind of restrictive provision on collection agencies. This provision is a barrier to investment in our community and unnecessary red tape.

What action are you taking to ensure job creation and economic growth in my region?

Hon Robert W. Runciman (Minister of Consumer and Commercial Relations): I thank the member from Niagara Falls for the question. Last week I introduced amendments to the Collection Agencies Act to remove the restriction on foreign ownership of collection agencies in Ontario. I'd like to assure the House that the proposed amendments do not change the existing requirement that collection agencies operating in Ontario be physically located in the province. Those provisions are still in place.

By passing this legislation, Ontario would be in step with all other provincial and territorial governments in Canada. Harmonizing our laws with other jurisdictions would improve interprovincial co-operation and enforcement of standards in the collection agency sector.

Our government has made job creation a top priority. We've created more than 500,000 jobs since being elected, and through this legislation we will level the playing field for Ontarians to compete for more jobs in the collection agency industry.

Mr Maves: Thank you very much, Minister, for recognizing how important 250 jobs like this are to the Niagara region, although some members of the House apparently aren't that concerned. I won't mention names; I won't do that today.

Minister, what can we do to ensure that these amendments in this package are passed as quickly as possible so that my constituents can benefit immediately from this legislation?

Hon Mr Runciman: We are working with the opposition to try to secure their support for swift passage of this legislation, and I urge them to make job creation for Niagara a priority. Let's put partisanship aside and get this job done.

NURSE PRACTITIONERS

Mr Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): My question is for the Minister of Health. My question comes from the Mary Bergund Community Health Centre, which operates in an underserviced area and badly needs a nurse practitioner.

On October 13 of this year the Ministry of Health put out a request for proposals for nurse practitioners, but under your new rules, to submit an application you have to go through a private sector company called MERX. On three occasions in October and November the community health centre tried to get an application document through MERX, and MERX said, "Sorry, we can't send it because of some differences in software." They asked MERX to send them an application by courier. MERX said they would not use Purolator as a courier despite the fact that Purolator is the only courier that operates into the town of Ignace.

The community tried five different ways to get an application and MERX couldn't provide them with one. The result, after a two-month tie-up with bureaucracy, is that they can't take

part in the nurse practitioner process. Is this the new scheme of things in the Ministry of Health: privatize things and make it difficult for underserviced areas to even get a nurse practitioner?

Hon Elizabeth Witmer (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): As the member certainly knows, it was our government that actually for the first time in the history of this province did recognize that nurse practitioners-we've actually moved forward to hire and will be hiring 80 nurse practitioners. As you know, there is an RFP process that is used to ensure that the nurse practitioners are located in the areas where they are most needed. We continue to refine that process, but I can tell you that the nurse practitioners are certainly increasing the access.

Along with the measures that I have announced today for additional physician resources and the measures we've incorporated in the past, there is considerably improved access for people in the north and isolated areas when it comes to physicians and nurse practitioners.

Mr Hampton: Minister, this is a community that badly needs a nurse practitioner. This is a community that has essentially one full-time physician and one locum physician and then tries to get nurse practitioners to provide health care for a population in the catchment area of over 2,000 people. They tried on four separate occasions, through this private sector process that you set up, to get the application form and MERX wouldn't send them the application form. The result is that they can't even apply for a nurse practitioner. They've now gone to get a law firm to sue MERX and your ministry to try to become part of the application process.

Minister, you can launch press release after press release, but the fact of the matter is that hard-pressed communities out there that actually need a nurse practitioner, that are trying in good faith to apply for a nurse practitioner, can't get through the private bureaucracy you've set up.

What are you going to do for a community like Ignace? Will you reopen the process so they can at least participate and file an application for that nurse practitioner they need so badly?

Hon Mrs Witmer: We are continuing to issue RFPs for nurse practitioners. We certainly have received very positive feedback from the community as to the work they are able to do to improve access to primary care. Certainly the concerns you've raised today are ones that need to be seriously considered. I very much appreciate that, and they certainly will be taken into consideration by the Ministry of Health officials in order to ensure that all communities have opportunities.

MUNICIPAL TAXATION

Mr Richard Patten (Ottawa Centre): My question is to the Minister of Municipal Affairs. You will know that two evenings ago, Bill 25, the restructuring and amalgamation of municipalities bill, went through and imposed an unwanted, unexpected tax increase on the people in the city of Ottawa.

You will recall a letter that was sent to you by the mayor of Ottawa. Part of it says: "It is a direct attack upon the taxpayers of Ottawa. I am writing to condemn these mean-spirited provisions which will accomplish nothing but penalize our taxpayers. The formula as it now appears is cherry-picking of assets and of liabilities." This letter was sent to you by the mayor. He asked for a meeting. You wouldn't meet with him, of course, because you wanted to help out your friend the minister from Nepean. No amendments in the bill, but in the bill it did have the opportunity for the cabinet to amend the legislation.

So I want to ask you, will you use those provisions to amend the bill to provide fiscal justice to the taxpayers of Ottawa?

Hon Tony Clement (Minister of the Environment, Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing): I thank the honourable member for the question and I can confirm to him that I have actually had discussions with the mayor of Ottawa on this very point. I understand, as you do, that there has been correspondence on this issue as well. We had a very fruitful discussion.

There has been no determination of some of the fine-tuning issues to which the member refers, but I can tell you what the intention of this government is, which is to protect taxpayers every step of the way to the best extent possible. That is what animates us; that is what drives us to commit to being part of this government and to deliver good government.

We are looking for an opportunity to be fair and equitable and reasonable to the taxpayers of Ottawa, but also to the taxpayers of Nepean and the taxpayers of Kanata and the taxpayers of Cumberland. This is all part of our job as being part of this government in Ontario. If the honourable member has any suggestions as to how best to do that, we would welcome them at any turn of events.

Mr Patten: Minister, I would like to hear you say that you will take action. The legislation in fact creates an imbalance. It means that the taxpayers of Ottawa, who didn't expect it-in fact one of the objectives was lower taxes. This will increase property taxes for taxpayers.

The mayor has two suggestions as to how to deal with this. Either of those suggestions would work. I would ask if you would confirm that you will direct the transition team to examine that and make sure there are no tax increases for the property taxpayers of Ottawa.

Hon Mr Clement: I can confirm to the honourable member and to this House that those two options that the mayor of Ottawa has determined are acceptable to him and to his council have been conveyed to me and we are apprised of that information. Let me say this, though. We also have a commitment to the taxpayers of Nepean. We also have a commitment to the taxpayers of Kanata. We did not think it was fair-which is why we went for area rating-to share with the taxpayers in Nepean or Kanata or outside of Ottawa the debts that have been accumulated by council decisions in Ottawa, nor did we feel it was fair to strip out reserves from those communities for the new city of Ottawa.

Having said that, we are looking for a fair, equitable and reasonable way of dealing with this, and I can certainly keep the honourable member apprised of our progress.

TOY DELIVERY

Mr John O'Toole (Durham): My question is to the Minister of Transportation. Many of my constituents in Durham, and indeed across Ontario, are aware of a massive shipment that will be travelling throughout Ontario the night of December 24. Thanks to the tax cuts, millions of pounds of toys are being transferred in a single vehicle that will perhaps exceed Ontario's vehicle weight restriction limits.

Minister, stand in your place in this Legislature and tell the children and people of Ontario that you will transport these toys on time and in a safe manner.

Hon David Turnbull (Minister of Transportation): What an excellent question. Play safety is of paramount importance to this ministry. The ministry is aware of the shipment in question, and I can assure the House that the owner has an excellent safety record and has taken every precaution in the past. After careful inspection, the carrier has been granted an "overweight" permit and he will have easy access to all Ontario communities. I'm confident that the toys will arrive on time and in a safe and efficient manner.

Mr O'Toole: Minister, it's clear from that response that you will not awake on Christmas morning with a piece of coal in your Christmas stocking.

In all seriousness, though, this issue of road safety is critical. Minister, stand in your place and come clean on behalf of the children of Ontario. Assure them that Mr Claus and the Christmas toy convoy will meet our load restrictions and that the vehicle will operate in a safe manner.

Hon Mr Turnbull: Of course, it would befit-

Interjections.

Hon Mr Turnbull: Please, this is a very serious matter. People all over the province want to know the answer to this.

It would be premature for me to speculate on the number of hours that Mr Claus would be working, but I'm pleased to report that the driver has a perfect safety record and that his vehicle is always well lit and well maintained. I'm confident in the ability of Mr Claus to deliver the cargo safely and on time.

I would just like to take this opportunity to wish everybody in this Legislature a happy Christmas, a wonderful holiday and, please, safe driving.

INFRASTRUCTURE PROGRAM FINANCING

Mr Gerry Phillips (Scarborough-Agincourt): I might just comment that I'm glad Santa has a sled, because many of the roads aren't plowed.

But my question is to the Minister of Finance, and it has to do with the SuperBuild Growth Fund.

I think all of us agree that over the next five years we have to invest about $20 billion in the infrastructure of Ontario. The government has told us that half of that, $10 billion, will come from the private sector. You know we've had some reservations about your ability to do that, based on the 407 experience, where the private sector has been given the right by you to double the tolls. Anybody who doesn't pay the toll doesn't get their licence renewed. The Harris government took about a $1.6-billion slush fund.

My question is this: We now are almost through the first year of this $10-billion private sector funding, so we expect that we've probably got somewhere around $2 billion of private sector funding for infrastructure. Can you indicate to the House where the $2 billion of private sector funding is coming from and what the major projects are that will represent that $2 billion?

Hon Ernie L. Eves (Deputy Premier, Minister of Finance): No, I cannot. The member is trying to leave the impression that this will be equally divided year by year, month by month, day by day, hour by hour, I suppose. When we make a commitment on this side of the House, we keep it. I can remember the same honourable member standing up and pooh-poohing how anybody could ever dream of creating 725,000 jobs-"That will never happen." Of course we're up to 615,000, and I don't hear that question any more.

Interjections.

Hon Mr Eves: Excuse me. There's still a year to go to meet the commitment. It was a five-year commitment.

You people on the other side of the House must really look forward to Christmas Day. What do you do, tack up a little picture of Scrooge over your mantle on Christmas Day?

Mr Phillips: There is no need to be so bitter. You won the election; you've got to get over it. You're going to have to put that behind you. You're just a sore winner.

I don't mean to disturb you. I know it's Christmas, but maybe you can just give us a hint. We are now almost through the first year. You've said $10 billion in total. I don't mean to upset you at all, but can you perhaps give Ontario some indication of the major projects that the private sector is going to fund? From where I sit, they want to make a profit. When you sell them a toll road or get them to build a toll road, that incremental infrastructure is a new tax on people. They build a school and you lease it, that's the same way of raising funds.

I want to know where you're going to find the incremental $10 billion for infrastructure. I don't mean to upset you; I'll just ask it quietly and maybe you can give us a hint of where that will come from.

Hon Mr Eves: I'm glad to see the member for Scarborough-Agincourt is in such good humour today.

We will be releasing project by project as the SuperBuild operation gets up and running. As he knows, we now have an executive director who is going to run the SuperBuild fund.

Interjection: Who is it?

Hon Mr Eves: You know very well who it is.

We will be doing this project by project. We're looking at many projects, four of which we talked about in last May's budget, as a matter of fact, in the post-secondary education sector. And there will be many more projects forthcoming. Trust me, at the end of five years, there will be at least that amount of money raised through the private sector and it will improve the infrastructure in the province of Ontario.

Merry Christmas to the honourable member for Scarborough-Agincourt.

CANADA SUMMER GAMES

Mr Frank Mazzilli (London-Fanshawe): My question is to the Minister of Citizenship, Culture and Recreation. Our government is committed to young athletes. As you know, in 2001 the Canada Summer Games are coming to our area of southwestern Ontario. That site has been selected for many reasons, and one reason is the London Health Sciences Centre, which is a world-renowned health care facility. It's no thanks to the federal Liberals who have cut health care funding. The province of Ontario and our government had to create the economy in order to fund health care properly.

If the members across the House want to lobby the federal Liberals for some further health care funding, we would certainly appreciate it in southwestern Ontario.

Minister, could you tell us some details of the 2001 Canada Summer Games?

Hon Helen Johns (Minister of Citizenship, Culture and Recreation, minister responsible for seniors and women): I'd like to thank the member for London-Fanshawe for the question. It gives me great pleasure to talk in the House about the games that are happening in London in August 2001. The 2001 games are being worked on by a large number of volunteers across the southwestern Ontario district. As people will know, the games will be held in London, Woodstock, Grand Bend and St Thomas. So there are a number of representatives in this House who will be involved in those, I'm sure. Of course, the University of Western Ontario will also be involved in these games.

I think the important thing to remember about the games is that our youth from the ages of 13 to 19 will be involved in these games. These games are held every two years. I know that the athletes are preparing now for the games and many will then move on to the Olympics and other games as a result. It's a good opportunity for these athletes and I know they're training hard to be ready.

Mr Mazzilli: This is something that we can truly celebrate in southwestern Ontario, the Canada Summer Games coming there. We've created over 600,000 new jobs in the province of Ontario to date and we will continue to create more jobs.

Minister, can you tell us what financial impact these Canada Summer Games will have to our region?

Hon Mrs Johns: As the members from southwestern Ontario will know, it's very important to create economic activity in this area. It is estimated that the economic benefits of these games will be very substantial to southwestern Ontario. Some $42 million is the economic impact that is estimated for London alone. They have also estimated that there will be 571 full-time jobs to London and the surrounding region, and across the province 737 jobs. So it's quite a legacy that these games will be leaving.

There will be $2 million for sport complexes that will be raised by partners and people involved in the games and the province, so it's quite a complex that's going on and it's going to bring a great deal of economic activity to southwestern Ontario.

OMERS PENSION BOARD

Mr David Christopherson (Hamilton West): My question is to the Chair of Management Board. Minister, you had to be embarrassed into putting some limits on the exotic junkets and high living of the Liquor Control Board of Ontario. I want to ask you about some of the other neat little travel opportunities that are available to members of the OMERS pension board.

I have a list here of the possible conferences sent to OMERS board members on November 2. Some of them are pretty cool: "Dialogue Along the Danube" in Budapest and Vienna; another conference at the Pointe Hilton in Tapatio Cliffs, Phoenix, Arizona; others in Palm Beach, Paris, Madrid, San Francisco. In many cases there are little stars instead of dollar signs, indicating that the sponsors will gladly pick up the cost.

My question to you is this: Are any of these junkets being paid for by the hard-earned wages of municipal workers, firefighters and police officers, or are they being paid as freebies by the corporate sponsors who want to influence the board members and their decision-making?

Hon Chris Hodgson (Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet): It's a good question. We have tried to root out a lot of the waste and abuse that was left in the system from the NDP government days, so I'll take this under consideration. I will check it out and see if it even falls within our jurisdiction or who is responsible, or if what you are saying is even true. Thank you for the question.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Supplementary.

Mr Christopherson: Well, Mr Speaker, I'm surprised you are going to let it stand in terms of him asking whether or not that's true.

However, Minister, I am disappointed that you take this so lightly. You take everything lightly around here until it's brought to you here or put on the front page of the newspaper; then you react. I suspect this is another one of those cases.

Let me say to you that one of the things these members should be hearing as they are travelling around the globe is that more and more pension boards are recognizing the right of workers to have at least a 50% say in how their board pensions are being invested. We of course have done that with the OPSEU pension trust fund, and it's working very well. We think you ought to be doing the same thing with the OMERS board. Will you tell us whether or not you are prepared to make that commitment today?

Hon Mr Hodgson: The answer to the last question is no, but to the first part, we do take those things very seriously and I appreciate your bringing it to our attention. I'm not sure which part of "yes" you're not comfortable with.

These are accusations that you are making that appear on the surface to be frivolous-we'll investigate that-and a waste of money for the people who have contributed to the plan, and of course we take that very seriously.

LONG-TERM CARE

Mr Mario Sergio (York West): My question is for the Minister of Health. Calls are coming in fast and furious with respect to long-term care and patients who need home care, including disabled patients. Will you introduce legislation which will guarantee those patients-handicapped, disabled, people who need home care services-the services provided within the health care system in Ontario?

Hon Elizabeth Witmer (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): As the member knows, we have 43 community care access centres in the province. Those community care access centres are run by a local board of directors, and within each one of those communities decisions are made regarding case management of patients. As you know, we have made available $551 million which is being used and will be used in the future to fund home care and community services.

VISITOR

Ms Marilyn Churley (Broadview-Greenwood): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I want to take this opportunity to introduce to the House Ryan Cookson, who was a former page in this House from Broadview-Greenwood last year. Welcome, Ryan.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): On a point of privilege, the member for Windsor-St Clair.

Mr Dwight Duncan (Windsor-St Clair): Mr Speaker, it has come to my attention that earlier today-we've had discussions about the McKendry report, which is three months overdue. My understanding is it has been given to all the government members but it's not available at this moment to opposition members or to the gallery. That's a very important infringement and we'd like to have copies of that report.

The Speaker: I'm not aware of the reports that they give out. I'm sure if there are reports available, the appropriate people would make them available to all members.

PETITIONS

MEDICAL LABORATORIES

Mr Monte Kwinter (York Centre): I have a petition to the Parliament of Ontario:

"Whereas the Ontario government has recently imposed a retroactive cap on revenue earned by medical laboratories for services provided under the health insurance plan; and

"Whereas the Ontario government has also required these businesses to refund revenue for services rendered in previous years where the amount of that revenue exceeds the retroactively imposed cap for those years; and

"Whereas this legislation amounts to expropriation of economic rights without adequate compensation or due process of law; and

"Whereas the greatest incentive to the provision of efficient and quality services and products by the private sector is competition and the ability to make a profit; and

"Whereas the removal of these incentives by government negatively affects all of society and particularly patients in need; and

"Whereas this type of legislation also unfairly discriminates against one sector of the society;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Parliament of Ontario as follows:

"That adequate protection of property rights is needed to ensure that government cannot erode the property rights of certain sectors of society without fair compensation and due process of law."

I've affixed my signature.

LOCAL SUPPLIERS

Mr Tony Martin (Sault Ste Marie): "Whereas consumer and business operator free choice may be limited where franchise agreements are in place; and

"Whereas Lock City Dairies is a Sault Ste Marie-based business contributing to the economy and wellbeing of the city and area, and is not able to have its products appropriately displayed and available to the public because of such agreements; and

"Whereas we, the undersigned, wish to be able to have the choice of Lock City Dairies products and the benefits of more jobs it would bring to our economy;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Parliament of Ontario as follows:

"To pass Tony Martin's Bill 35 or amend the government's Bill 33 to include provisions to make it possible for local operators of grocery store chain outlets, and other outlets such as convenience stores, to have the freedom to choose to support local suppliers and to provide them with shelf and display space proportionate to consumer demand."

I have signed my signature to this petition.

KARLA HOMOLKA

Mr John Hastings (Etobicoke North): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas Karla Homolka and Paul Bernardo were responsible for terrorizing entire communities in southern Ontario; and

"Whereas the Ontario government of the day made a deal with the devil with Karla Homolka resulting in a sentence that does not truly make her pay for her crimes; and

"Whereas our communities have not yet fully recovered from the trauma and sadness caused by Karla Homolka; and

"Whereas Karla Homolka believes that she should be entitled to passes to leave prison with an escort; and

"Whereas the people of Ontario believe that criminals should be forced to serve sentences that reflect the seriousness of their crimes;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, respectfully petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the government of Ontario will:

"Do everything within its power to ensure that Karla Homolka serves her full sentence;

"Continue to reform parole and make it more difficult for serious offenders to return to our streets;

"Fight the federal government's plan to release up to 1,600 more convicted criminals on to Ontario streets; and

"Ensure that the Ontario government's sex offender registry is functioning as quickly as possible."

I'm pleased to affix my signature to this petition.

GASOLINE PRICES

Mr Steve Peters (Elgin-Middlesex-London): This is a petition to stop the soaring price of gasoline arising from the gas price gouging of major oil companies.

"To the Legislature of Ontario:

"Whereas the price of gasoline has soared over 30% in price in the last six months; and

"Whereas the Mike Harris government has done nothing to protect consumers and is afraid to take on the big oil companies; and

"Whereas the wholesale market for gasoline is controlled by an oil oligopoly which controls 85% of the wholesale market; and

"Whereas the big oil companies have used predatory pricing to eliminate small competitors; and

"Whereas, in 1975, former Ontario Premier Bill Davis froze the price of gasoline for 135 days and called an inquiry into the pricing practices of oil companies;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislature of Ontario as follows:

"That the province of Ontario call for a 90-day freeze on the price of gasoline while an inquiry is held into the pricing practices of large oil companies and that the province pass into law the Gas Price Watchdog Act which would protect consumers and independent oil companies from price gouging and predatory pricing."

This is signed by a number of constituents in the riding of Elgin-Middlesex-London and I proudly affix my signature to the same.

APPOINTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSIONER

Ms Marilyn Churley (Broadview-Greenwood): To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the first Environmental Commissioner appointed under the NDP's Environmental Bill of Rights, Eva Ligeti, courageously documented the Harris government's attack on environmental protection in Ontario; and

"Whereas the Harris government refused to reappoint Ms Ligeti, instead choosing a close political ally of the Premier to fill the position; and

"Whereas Ontario needs the Environmental Commissioner to serve as a tenacious watchdog on the government; and

"Whereas the former Conservative riding association president in the Premier's riding accepted thousands of dollars in political donations when he ran for the Mike Harris Tories from Falconbridge Ltd, Mallette Lumber, Timmins Forest Products, Abitibi-Price, Millson Forestry Service, Columbia Forest Products, Grant Lumber, Erocon Waste Management, Timmins Logging, Westland Logging and Gaetan Levesque Logging; and

"Whereas, given the candidate's strong personal ties to the Premier of Ontario, the candidate cannot be trusted to protect Ontario's environment;

"We, the undersigned, call on the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to reject the nomination of Gord Miller as Environmental Commissioner, and to choose instead a highly qualified candidate with no political ties to the current government."

I agree with this petition and proudly affix my name to it.

KARLA HOMOLKA

Mr Dan Newman (Scarborough Southwest): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario and it reads as follows:

"Whereas Karla Homolka and Paul Bernardo were responsible for terrorizing entire communities in southern Ontario; and

"Whereas the Ontario government of the day made a deal with the devil with Karla Homolka resulting in a sentence that does not truly make her pay for her crimes; and

"Whereas our communities have not yet fully recovered from the trauma and sadness caused by Karla Homolka; and

"Whereas Karla Homolka believes that she should be entitled to passes to leave prison with an escort; and

"Whereas the people of Ontario believe that criminals should be forced to serve sentences that reflect the seriousness of their crimes;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, respectfully petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the government of Ontario will:

"Do everything within its power to ensure that Karla Homolka serves her full sentence;

"Continue to reform parole and make it more difficult for serious offenders to return to our streets;

"Fight the federal government's plan to release up to 1,600 more convicted criminals on to Ontario streets; and

"Ensure that the Ontario government's sex offender registry is functioning as quickly as possible."

I have affixed my name to this very worthwhile petition.

HIGHWAY SAFETY

Mr Pat Hoy (Chatham-Kent Essex): To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas 13 people died during the first seven months of 1999 on Highway 401 between London and Windsor; and

"Whereas traffic levels on all sections of Highway 401 continue to increase; and

"Whereas Canada's number one trade and travel route was designed in the 1950s for fewer vehicles and lighter trucks; and

"Whereas road funding is almost completely paid through vehicle permit and driver licensing fees; and

"Whereas Ontario road users pay 28 cents per litre of tax on gasoline, adding up to $2.7 billion in provincial gas taxes and over $2.3 billion in federal gas taxes;

"We, the undersigned members of the Canadian Automobile Association and other residents of Ontario, respectfully request the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to immediately upgrade Highway 401 to at least a six-lane highway with full paved shoulders and rumble strips; and

"We respectfully request that the Legislative Assembly of Ontario place firm pressure on the federal government to invest its gasoline tax revenue in road safety improvements in Ontario."

This is signed by a number of residents from Blenheim, Chatham and Merlin and I affix my signature to it.

DENTAL CARE

Ms Frances Lankin (Beaches-East York): "To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas a growing number of Ontario working families are not receiving any dental benefits through their place of employment;

"Whereas it has been recognized that good dental health is important to the overall health of the body;

"Whereas other countries that pay less per person in health care have universal dental coverage;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to ensure that every Ontario citizen has fully funded access to at least one dental checkup and cleaning a year."

This is signed by approximately 600 citizens of Ontario, primarily residents of the Niagara Peninsula.

KARLA HOMOLKA

Mr John O'Toole (Durham): It's a privilege to rise in the House today and represent the people of Durham. I also want to put on the record that yesterday I spoke on a petition on the 407 routing-

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Bert Johnson): If you want to read this petition, I'd like to hear it; if not, I will go on.

Mr O'Toole: I will get to that. On the attempt to silence the voice of Durham-out of respect for the Chair, I will read:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas Karla Homolka and Paul Bernardo were responsible for terrorizing entire communities in southern Ontario; and

"Whereas the Ontario government of the day made a deal with the devil with Karla Homolka resulting in a sentence that does not truly make her pay for her crimes; and

"Whereas our communities have not yet fully recovered from the trauma and sadness caused by Karla Homolka; and

"Whereas Karla Homolka believes that she should be entitled to passes to leave prison with an escort; and

"Whereas the people of Ontario believe that criminals should be forced to serve sentences that reflect the seriousness of their crimes;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, respectfully petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the government of Ontario will:

"Do everything within its power to ensure that Karla Homolka serves her full sentence;

"Continue to reform parole and make it more difficult for serious offenders to return to our streets;

"Fight the federal government's plan to release up to 1,600 more convicted criminals on to Ontario streets; and

"Ensure that the Ontario government's sex offender registry is functioning as quickly as possible."

I'm pleased to submit this on behalf of-

The Deputy Speaker: Thank you. Further petitions.

TENANT PROTECTION

Mr Mario Sergio (York West): I have a petition addressed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario, with a total of 214 signatures.

"Whereas the current rental housing legislation in Ontario, the Tenant Protection Act, is unfair and does not serve the interests of tenants;

"Whereas tenants are being victimized by landlords who are securing excessive rent increases and not providing adequate services;

"Whereas the Ontario Rental Housing Tribunal unfairly favours the interests of landlords;

"We, the residents of 2405 Finch Avenue West (Lori Gardens Tenants Association) petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"We urge the Ontario government to replace the Tenant Protection Act with legislation that protects the rights of tenants and ensures a fair balance between them and their landlords."

I concur with the petition and I will affix my signature to it.

EDUCATION FUNDING

Mr Tony Martin (Sault Ste Marie): "To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the current education funding formula stipulates that should the student population of a given district divided by the district's area equal less than 1.0, the district is to be funded as a low-density area; and

"Whereas Algoma District School Board has approximately 15,000 students and covers an area of 70,534 square kilometres and as such has a quotient of 0.21;

"We, the undersigned taxpayers"-I have about three pages of signatures here-"supporters and district school council members of the Algoma District School Board petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to instruct the Minister of Education to review the current education funding formula as it applies to the Algoma District School Board of northern Ontario and rightfully designate it as a low-density board."

I sign my own signature to this petition.

KARLA HOMOLKA

Ms Marilyn Mushinski (Scarborough Centre): This is a continuation of concerned petitioners regarding Karla Homolka.

"Whereas Karla Homolka and Paul Bernardo were responsible for terrorizing entire communities in southern Ontario; and

"Whereas the Ontario government of the day made a deal with the devil with Karla Homolka resulting in a sentence that does not truly make her pay for her crimes; and

"Whereas our communities have not yet fully recovered from the trauma and sadness caused by Karla Homolka; and

"Whereas Karla Homolka believes that she should be entitled to passes to leave prison with an escort; and

"Whereas the people of Ontario believe that criminals should be forced to serve sentences that reflect the seriousness of their crimes;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, respectfully petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the government of Ontario will:

"Do everything within its power to ensure that Karla Homolka serves her full sentence;

"Continue to reform parole and make it more difficult for serious offenders to return to our streets;

"Fight the federal government's plan to release up to 1,600 more convicted criminals on to Ontario streets; and

"Ensure that the Ontario government's sex offender registry is functioning as quickly as possible."

I'm pleased to affix my signature to this petition.

MATERS MORTGAGES

Mr James J. Bradley (St Catharines): My petition reads as follows:

"Whereas Maters Mortgages investors have battled for a decade to receive compensation for their losses, which were incurred as a result of overzealous action on the part of an official in the Ministry of Financial Institutions, as was proven recently in a parallel criminal case;

"Whereas Maters Mortgages investors believe that their civil action against the government of Ontario has been unduly and unnecessarily delayed in the courts by legal representatives acting for the government of Ontario;

"Whereas the new investors' committee of Maters Mortgages has requested that legal representatives of the government of Ontario meet with legal representatives of Maters Mortgages investors to discuss the possibility of reaching an out-of-court settlement of the investors' civil case against the Ontario government;

"Whereas many Maters Mortgages investors are senior citizens who placed their life savings in these investments and have suffered from extreme stress and financial hardship and continue to do so;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly to encourage the government of Ontario to take immediate action to appoint a case manager to expedite the case involving the class civil action of the representatives of Maters Mortgages investors against the government of Ontario.

"Further, we petition the Legislative Assembly to urge the government of Ontario to engage immediately in serious discussions with legal representatives of Maters Mortgages investors with a view to reaching a fair out-of-court settlement with the investors and urge the government to instruct its legal representatives to cease any and all legal activity designed to prolong the duration of the case."

I affix my signature to this petition.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Bert Johnson): The time for petitions has ended. I want to just say that it's the duty of the Chair, the presiding officer, to interpret the rules of the House, the rules you have made, so that it isn't within the purview of any presiding officer to take the voice away from any representative as long as they are within the rules. If you don't stay within the rules, then please look at me, because I'll make sure you are. I would like to just leave that with you for the rest of the afternoon and evening.

Orders of the day.

Hon Frank Klees (Minister without Portfolio): Speaker, government order 3.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

APPOINTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSIONER

Resuming the debate adjourned on December 21, 1999, that an humble address be presented to the Lieutenant Governor in Council as follows:

To the Lieutenant Governor in Council:

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Bert Johnson): Further debate?

Mr Dwight Duncan (Windsor-St Clair): Mr Speaker, on a point of order: Perhaps the Speaker could enlighten me. Yesterday this order was government order 30, and I believe I heard the chief government whip say government order 3.

The Deputy Speaker: I usually don't explain things, but today, if you check on page 8, this order is listed as number 3. I don't have yesterday's to see what number it is, but I'll take your word for it that it was 30.

Mr Duncan: So it did change.

The Deputy Speaker: Just to explain, as far as I know, they could change any day as the number-

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker: Order. I also notice that the date on the calendar in front of me changes each day. So I think that's quite normal.

Mr Bart Maves (Niagara Falls): It's a pleasure to rise and wrap up my comments that I started last night, mostly about bringing back some history about some of the sanctimonious attitudes that come from across the way from the other party, particularly the New Democratic Party.

I had started out by quoting from a book by an NDP-supportive author, Tom Walkom. He wrote a book called Rae Days about their time in office. What we talked about largely was how much politicization of the bureaucracy the NDP had done in their term in office and how much patronage they had engaged in. It was probably the greatest orgy of patronage we'd ever seen in the province of Ontario.

Certainly I think no one would dispute that it was a greater politicization of the bureaucracy, the civil service, than ever before probably in the history of this country. That's quite shameful, actually, Minister, because as you know the parliamentary tradition is to have an independent civil service, and that was really breached in a quite pathetic way during their term in office.

I quoted mostly yesterday from

chapter 4, which was entitled "Wackos from Outer Space." I went through yesterday and read example after example of friends of the NDP and NDP activists who got put into the bureaucracy as deputy ministers, as assistant deputy ministers, and it was just a shameful politicization of the civil service-and people who gave contributions to the party. I didn't even get into all of the agencies, boards, commissions, tribunals and authorities, many of which the NDP started and put a lot of their friends in those positions.

When we first started making expenditure reductions when we got in office, the hue and cry-most of the howls were from their friends. We are saying they had created too many agencies, boards and commissions. We had to get rid of a few of them, and when we did we got rid of a lot of their friends and their party faithful whom they'd given jobs to. That's why the hue and cry was as loud as it was.

I just want to finish off, because I only have a few seconds left. At the end of this

chapter in this book, after this politicization occurred and after a few years of being in office, here's what Bob Rae himself had to say when people were raising their eyebrows so much at their government. I'm going to quote from the book: "`We are not wackos from outer space,' Rae insisted early in his term. Later, as his government's economic policy moved back and forth across the ideological map, he was moved to say: `My brain has not been captured by alien forces.' Not everyone was convinced."

Mrs Leona Dombrowsky (Hastings-Frontenac-Lennox and Addington): I'm very pleased to rise in the House today to speak to what I think is a very important topic, the appointment of the Environmental Commissioner of Ontario.

Of course, I'm new to the role, but I think it's important for the members of the House to understand that in my riding there are a number of issues of significance. Certainly two that come to my mind, and two that I heard about very regularly as I campaigned, as I crossed my riding to understand what was important to the people in Hastings-Frontenac-Lennox and Addington, two issues that came to me very regularly, related to environmental issues.

One issue is with regard to a proposed expansion of a landfill site. The landfill site is located in Richmond township and there is at the present time a proposal under way that would see that landfill expand in capacity by six times its present size every year for the next 25 years. So it is a proposal of some great significance for the people in that particular community.

The people of the community have come to me out of concern and I certainly appreciate the concerns they've brought to my attention. I would like to be able to say to the people of my riding that there will be opportunities for them to have their issues heard in an impartial forum and that decisions will certainly be made with their better interests at heart.

Another important environmental issue in my riding is a situation that has attracted much attention over the last decade. It's the Deloro mine site. The Deloro mine site is probably one of the worst environmental tragedies in North America. It's not my role, or the role of the government either, to lay blame. It certainly is our responsibility, though, to deal with the reality that there is much to be done there to clean it up and ensure the safety of the people of the community and the people who would live downstream from that contaminated site.

It's another situation where I believe the people in my riding deserve to be confident that the people involved with reviewing the process that will be in place to address their serious concerns will give fair hearing and impartial consideration to the important issues that they will raise about this matter. Those are two reasons why I, as a representative of my community, am particularly interested in the role of the Environmental Commissioner of Ontario.

I have to say as well that I have personally benefited from the hours of debate that have taken place on this particular issue so far. I know that there have regularly been motions to stop debate, to close debate, to say, "We've heard enough," but as a member who is new to the House, I must say to the members of the government that I have benefited greatly from the opportunity of sitting here and hearing the perspectives of government members and members on this side of the House.

So I would encourage members of the government to consider in the future, when we do discuss bills, that this is an opportunity for you, the government, to have us better understand what might be your position and perhaps to be open to points that are made on this side of the House.

That's really what democracy is all about: the hearing of both sides; not necessarily the digging in its heels but to be able to appreciate the valid perspectives that are raised in this Assembly, to be able to say that, perhaps in the better interest of the people of Ontario, we need to reconsider our position. So it has been with great interest that I have participated in the debate and am very happy to speak to the issue this afternoon as well.

I have had to do a lot of homework and I have reviewed a number of documents and I've had to become familiar with the distinction between a Legislative Assembly appointment and a government appointment. I have for may years been aware of what have been considered patronage appointments. They have been in every government, whether it's a Conservative government, a Liberal government or an NDP government. Liberals appoint Conservatives, Conservatives appoint Liberals and NDPers appoint members of other parties as well. Of course, it's to be expected that governments are going to appoint people known to be supporters of their party.

For boards and commissions and agencies of the government, while some people may not like the idea, it has been a long-standing practice and one that is largely accepted. I know that Hansard would bear me out if I were to say that members of this side of the House have said as much, that we understand the reality of patronage appointments, that they're quite appropriate for boards, agencies and commissions. But the Environmental Commissioner, as I understand it, as it has been explained to me and as I have researched it, is an appointment made by the Legislative Assembly.

That means it's a position that this body recognizes and makes appointment to. I would suggest that it's probably a position that should have the blessing of all three parties that participate in the assembly.

I believe there are certain reasons why it is important that assembly positions are supported by all members of the Legislature. I would think that the government would only want to place someone in that role if that were the case. Surely, we must recognize that the role of Environmental Commissioner for Ontario is probably one of the most important roles in the province today. If there is anything that the people of Ontario are very concerned about and that has been reported regularly in the media is that the government needs to pay a good deal of attention and do a better job than they have.

Even in the speech from the throne, the government indicated an intention to improve the record, its performance in the area of the environment. That being the case, I've got to think that the person that this assembly would place in the role that would monitor the government's performance and in this very important portfolio would have the confidence of the entire assembly.

I've got to think that the government would want to have someone in place so that when the Environmental Commissioner of Ontario makes a report to the assembly, the assembly is going to be confident and not suspect that the report is biased or less impartial or that perhaps the commissioner has been somewhat partisan in reviewing the various roles, the various activities of the various ministries that impact on the environment of Ontario.

I would think that it would be of benefit to the government to be able to say, "We have this report from the Environmental Commissioner," and all parties of the House, having supported that commissioner, would say, "Yes, we accept that this would be a sound document and we have no reason to believe that it would be partial in its presentation."

As I've done a little bit of homework and tried to understand the role and the requirements of the role, I refer to a document that's reasonably recent, February 1999, where it is in my opinion very clearly indicated. I think it's important for me to read it into the record and for the people of the province of Ontario who might be tuning into the House today and wondering what is the Environmental Commissioner and what makes this role distinct. I think it's important that the importance of the role and why we are talking about it at the length we are are clearly stated.

"The task force envisioned that `the Environmental Commissioner would have responsibility for oversight of this implementation and effectiveness of the Environmental Bill of Rights.'" I believe in Ontario we are most blessed to have an Environmental Bill of Rights. But it is only a blessing if it is adhered to, if it is in fact acted upon, if it is respected by the agencies that have the responsibility to guard our environment.

"`It would take a quantum leap of faith in government to assume that one government or a succession of governments could maintain willingly a high standard of compliance with such a piece of legislation.' Accordingly, the ECO has been described by the media and some observers as an `environmental watchdog.'

`"Public servants and members of the caucus have great incentives not to embarrass the government, while opposition members have great incentives to exaggerate problems and ignore well-managed programs and institutions. Such an environment is not conducive to developing sound performance information and, even if such information were deemed credible, reasoned use of that information in the public domain.'

"The nature of the Environmental Commissioner of Ontario's legal obligation to report on ministry compliance with the Environmental Bill of Rights makes it likely that at least some ministry officials will find these reports disagreeable. In particular, the Environmental Commissioner's position is independent of the party in power, and its impartiality cannot be compromised by pressure from non-statutory considerations such as political pressures, potential reprisals or interference."

As I say, this is from a document entitled Independence, Accountability and Transparency: The Role of the Environmental Commissioner of Ontario, a background paper that was issued on February 15, 1999. I think it has presented very well why anyone appointed to the role of Environmental Commissioner should be, and should be seen to be, impartial.

In the House over the last couple of days there has been a lot of debate and discussion about the individual who has been proposed for the role. I want to clarify, and I think it's important for me to have the members of the government understand, because there have been statements made.

The member for Northumberland indicated last evening that members of the opposition were trying to discredit the government. The member from Peterborough indicated that this was a character assassination. I want to make very clear this afternoon that I'm not trying to discredit the government and I certainly am not trying to impugn the integrity of Mr Miller. I'm not questioning his credentials or his ability. But it is very clear-it's a matter of public record-that this man has in the past been very involved with the Progressive Conservative Party.

Last evening the member from Dufferin-Peel-Wellington-Grey made the presentation, "I guess if you're a card-carrying member of the Conservative Party, you should expect to be discriminated against and you shouldn't be appointed to anything." That's not what I'm saying here today either. I think I've already made my thoughts clear on that. I think patronage appointments are a reality, they happen, but this is an appointment of the Legislative Assembly, and I think it's important that this is clear.

My comments today are not to an individual's ability but to the fact that, in a very public forum, Mr Miller has attached himself to the Conservative Party.

While I don't believe that has any impact on his ability to function in the role as the Environmental Commissioner, in a very pragmatic sense, we all must understand that whatever an individual with his background might bring forward, because of his political ties, because he participated in an election campaign and advocated the present environmental policies of the government, I think it's fair to assume that there's going to be the assumption in the public forum by the people of Ontario that this commissioner would continue to hold as appropriate, as true, as the way the province should be directed in terms of environmental policy-that this commissioner would be very favourable to what the government would present.

That may or may not be true, but I can assure you it would be the perception. While you might argue that would be unfair, I can only argue back that that is the reality.

I say to the members of the government this afternoon, as we're considering this very important matter, that the people of Ontario, and certainly the people in Hastings-Frontenac-Lennox and Addington, deserve-I think the Environmental Commissioner is one of the most important roles in the province today. I believe that our very future as a province depends on the Environmental Commissioner doing his job and doing it well.

I know the government likes to measure the health of our society by the bottom line, by what the ledger says, by how much money we have in our pockets from a tax cut, but there are other gauges in society that measure health. I would say that the environment is probably one of the most important ones. Right now the barometer on our environment is falling, and it's falling fast. The government needs to pay some attention to our environment. We need to have someone in the role of commissioner who is not afraid to say to the government: "You're not doing a very good job here. We need to work harder."

I don't think the role is entirely to find fault or to criticize. It's important when people have roles such as this that they are able to provide guidance and direction. I believe this assembly should be able to wholeheartedly support the candidate who is presented for this role. It's very obvious, for reasons you may or may not agree with, that this is not the case with Mr Miller.

I would encourage the members of the government to reconsider, for the people of Ontario, for the good of this government, so that when a report is issued by the Environmental Commissioner of the province, it is not suspect, and the members of the entire Legislative Assembly are able to say we appreciate this as an impartial perspective. You must understand, for the many reasons that have been talked about these last number of hours in debate, that this would not happen. I believe the people of Ontario deserve that. I believe the Environmental Commissioner deserves that.

I really question the ability of someone to function at the very best of their ability in such an important role with this kind of cloud over their head.

It's my hope today that further debate will reveal to the government that it is probably a better idea-and I think my colleague from St Catharines yesterday made a very good point. Certainly we should not overlook the very fine abilities of Mr Miller. I'm sure it's possible for him to be appointed by the government to another role where his abilities would serve the people of Ontario well. But it's important for the government to recognize that at this time to appoint Mr Miller to such a significant post would not be in the better interests of this Legislative Assembly.

I would ask you to assist me, as a new member, to be able to say that I believe the process is working and that when we stand in the House and debate, you are able to see the other side and see why this is not a personal issue; it is one of perception and we want to be fair to all of the people involved.

I thank you very much for this opportunity to share my concerns around the appointment that's before us this afternoon.

Mr Wayne Wettlaufer (Kitchener Centre): This is obviously an issue that many of us have a great deal of concern about. I think we have to look at the entire process around which legislative appointments are made. I would like to draw a comparison to the Ombudsman who recently was appointed. I sat on the committee that made that appointment. I think we have to look at how the person is selected. As you're aware, a number of resumés are submitted after an advertisement goes into a national newspaper. The resumés are submitted to human resources.

In the case of the Ombudsman, I believe we had 82 resumés, and in the case of the Environmental Commissioner-and I could stand to be corrected-I believe it was 71.

What happens here is that the human resources people weigh, based on a series of categories, the individual they feel should be put at the top of the list. They report to the Legislature. They don't report to the government; human resources reports to the Legislature. They weigh and they put their choices, the top five, the top 10, the top 25, which then come to the committee.

Mr Joseph Spina (Brampton Centre): They grade the candidates.

Mr Wettlaufer: Yes, they grade the candidates, I say to my friend and colleague the member for Brampton Centre. When they come graded, they have already expressed their support for the candidates.

In the case of the Legislative Assembly committee, when we picked the Ombudsman, we advised them that we wanted to see the other resumés as well. I'm not too sure what happened in the committee picking the Environmental Commissioner. However, I do know that Gordon Miller was in the top three of all the human resources gradings. He was in the top three.

I know that we unanimously selected the Ombudsman. That was fortuitous; it was good management, I guess. But you can't always have a unanimous selection. Whether it be an Environmental Commissioner or whether it be an Ombudsman or whatever, you can't always have a unanimous selection. The majority of a committee will rule.

In this case, yes, the majority was the government, and yes, those who were not government opposed the selection. That is the democratic process. That's how democracy works. Whether we like it or not, it is how it works. Nevertheless, whether he is picked by the majority of the committee, in this case all of the government members, he still must report to the Legislature. He is accountable to the Legislature.

His qualifications are impeccable. Nobody is arguing about his qualifications. I haven't heard any one of you say he's not qualified to do the job. What you have said is that because he's a PC, because he ran for the PCs both federally and provincially, because he's a friend of Mike Harris, because he is the president of his riding association, because he is all these things, he shouldn't get the appointment. That's what I've heard out of you. That's not appropriate.

The Deputy Speaker: I'd ask the member to address your comments to me, please.

Mr Wettlaufer: Certainly, Mr Speaker. I understand that and I accept that.

This is what I have heard from the members of the opposition. Mr Speaker, I know you will agree that that is not appropriate.

Hon Chris Stockwell (Minister of Labour): Throw him out.

Mr Wettlaufer: The minister wants me thrown out? OK. You want me to say something that will inflame the situation; then I'll get thrown out and I won't be here for the vote tonight. Tonight aren't we voting on something?

Interjections: Tomorrow.

Mr Wettlaufer: Tomorrow? OK. I'm sorry. Then I don't have to worry. I can inflame the situation all I want.

Mr David Caplan (Don Valley East): It might be next week.

Mr Wettlaufer: Next week? We'd have to get unanimous consent to come back next week. We may have trouble getting unanimous consent.

Mr Caplan: Agreed.

Mr Wettlaufer: No. I'm not going to move unanimous consent. I'll oppose it.

I think it's so very important to keep in mind that this debate shouldn't even be held here today. Here is a man whose reputation is without fault. Had the proper procedures been followed-confidentiality-we wouldn't be here debating this issue. But because one member of this Legislature feels that the rules are made for everyone else and not her-

Ms Marilyn Churley (Broadview-Greenwood): Who are you talking about? Name names.

Mr Caplan: Who?

Mr Wettlaufer: She knows who it is. One member chose to release the particulars to the media. This has become a public issue, a matter that should have been a confidentiality issue. That is the way this is.

I have hired many people in my lifetime. I have had many resumés come to me. Every time an applicant submitted a resumé to me, I have advised them that it was in the strictest confidence. The candidates who submitted their resumés to this committee, through human resources, did so in the belief that their resumés would be submitted in the strictest confidence. Every single one of those individuals from around this province submitted their resumés in the belief that it would be in the strictest confidence. This member chose to interpret the rules as applying to everyone else but not to her.

This is shameful behaviour. It is behaviour that is not becoming a member of this Legislature. It is behaviour not becoming to anyone in a position of authority. I don't care whether it's a person who is an employer, I don't care whether it's a member who is a leader of a union, I don't care whether it's a person in this Legislature; we must always respect the rights of a candidate who is applying for any kind of job.

When we say to them that their applications will be submitted in the strictest confidence then we, as the legislators of this province, who are supposedly some of the finest human beings in this province, the leaders of our province, have an obligation to ensure that our word is good. We cannot, we must not ever again open up into a public forum someone's application for a position when we tell them that it will be held in the strictest confidence. We must never do that. How can we as legislators go back on our word? I ask the member, how can you feel justified, because you think that you are above-

Ms Churley: Who are you talking to?

Mr Wettlaufer: Mr Speaker, how can that member think that because she is above this Legislature she can release the particulars to the media? The rules apply to all the members of this place. The rules apply to every member of the committees.

Mr David Christopherson (Hamilton West): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: During the course of your being in the chair over the last few weeks, you will know that some members of the government have taken exception to people not being referred to by their seats. Rather than "she" and "her," how about having the guts to acknowledge that you're talking about the member for Broadview-Greenwood, who's leading this charge to stop this improper appointment?

The Deputy Speaker: That is a point of order. It is usual to refer to people by the name of their riding.

Mr Wettlaufer: Before I go any further, Mr Speaker, I would like to advise that I will be sharing the rest of my time with the member for London-Fanshawe.

Interjection.

Mr Wettlaufer: It's already been done.

I'm glad that the member from Hamilton West has indicated that it was the member from Broadview-Greenwood who thought that she was above the rules of this Legislature. I'm ashamed to be part of a process in which a member will no longer hold applications that come in for positions confidential.

I think it's very important that every member remember-

The Deputy Speaker: Order.

Ms Churley: On a point of order, Mr Speaker: The member from Kitchener is imputing motive here and accusing me of disclosing resumés, which I never did. In fact, one of his very own members gave more information about what happened at that committee than I did. He's imputing motive, and I want you to ask him to withdraw.

The Deputy Speaker: I was listening very carefully to the member for Kitchener Centre and I think that he has been getting very close to designating actions, but I have heard no indication of imputing a motive.

Mr Wettlaufer: I'd just like to point out that I wasn't out of order and that I've lost a minute and a half of my time as a result of that point of order. I think it's very important that we, as members of this Legislature, respect the confidentiality process at all times.

I now want to pass the rest of my time on to the member from London-Fanshawe.

Mr Frank Mazzilli (London-Fanshawe): It's a privilege, and I think it's important that we go through the process the government followed in order to pick this particular individual. It's important for people of Ontario to know that there is a system in place that has been in place for some time, under different governments.

The first thing that was done was, people who were interested in applying for the post of the Environmental Commissioner responded to an advertisement in the Globe and Mail. This is a national newspaper, respected by many, not only in our province, but across the country. The message was certainly put out there.

None of the applicants were put forward by any party. That is extremely important because, to be independent, the name should not be put through by any party or caucus. Each caucus had the opportunity to put forward names for this position and none of them did so.

The advertisement that ran in the Globe and Mail for several days in September 1999 stipulated that any individuals may submit resumes by October 6, 1999. So there was a very clear indication of what the process was and that resumés were being accepted prior to October 6, 1999, which of course, as with any job that's advertised, is a normal course to follow.

All three House leaders then referred the selection process to an all-party standing committee to follow the same process from 1994-

Interjections.

Mr Mazzilli: The opposition doesn't like that process, and I certainly understand. They would just like to appoint someone on their own, but we had a process to follow, a process that had been in place from 1994, and we did so.

Then the selection of the Environmental Commissioner was sent to the general government committee, at the same time that the selection of the Ombudsman was referred to the Legislative Assembly committee. Both committees followed the same fair and confidential process to select the best candidate for each job.

Interjections.

Mr Mazzilli: I hear from across they have a problem with that, selecting the best candidate for each job because, you see, that's what our intention is, to pick the right person for the job based on qualifications.

Then, when both of the committees have tabled the names of the intended appointments, the House ought to accept the integrity of these committees, because of course they are committees of the House and the selection process was hard for the committee members.

The one thing we know about any committee or Legislature is that we rarely agree on everything, and so we vote on things. When you vote on things, that is the democratic process. If you win the vote, then that will be it; if you lose the vote, then that is it.

Interjection.

Mr Mazzilli: From across the benches they don't understand that the election is over and that they lost. They don't seem to understand that. Surely this Legislature doesn't believe that the public involvement in politics should disqualify people from applying for a job.

I was a member of the Consent and Capacity Review Board, as were lawyers and psychiatrists and community members of all three parties in this House. I was a member of that committee after going through a selection process. That review board decided essentially on mental health issues, people appealing their involuntary status on mental health issues.

Was I partisan? Was I a card-carrying member of the Progressive Conservative Party? Yes, I was. Did that influence me on involuntary status decisions made by that board? No, it did not. I can assure you, there were members on that board from the Liberal Party, who are card-carrying Liberals, who worked on the Liberal campaign through the election, and there were members on that board from the NDP. We all worked for one common goal and that was to decide the best way to deal with those men