VOL. 1 PRELIMINARY UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PERIOD: 3:00P.M. - 6:00 ?.~. Wednesday, ~ovember l;t. NO, 29 1979

November 14, 1979 The House met at 3:00 P.M. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. MR. SPEAKER: (Siums) MR. SPEAKER; MR. JAMIESON: Tape 1049 EC - 1 Order, please! ORAL QUESTIONS The hen. the Leader of the Opposition. Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the bon. the Premier, indeed, a series of questions which it is rather difficult to pose in a. standard fashion because of the lack of information ~~at we possess. May I ask him, first of all, if he is in a position at the DJment to make any general observations or staie any conclusiOns with regard to the First Ministers• meeting which was held in Ottawa on Monday? MR.

SPEAKER; PREMIER PECKFORD: The hon. the Premier. 'ies, Mr. Speaker. General comments, I think 1 would be that the conference was a very useful vehicle through which rost of the First Ministers could themselves discuss various alternatives for energy policy and energy strategy in Canada over the next number of years and clearly provided sone consensus for the Prime Minister in his ongoing discussions with the producing provinces, namely, British Columbi.i, Alberta and Saskatch.ewan and in some of his ongoing meetings with the Premier of Ontario.

As was repor't.ed, I think fairly accurately in the local press and in some of the national press, most of the provinces - well, really, I guess, nine provincial Premiers agreed that mvement. of oil and gas prices in Canada towards the average price at Chicago was the way that we should now go, that. that should be, done in the context of being gradual over a four or five year period, that it should not. exceed 90 per cent of ~~e American price, average price, at Chicago, and in any event, should be below the Montreal price, ·!Ju"t that. that shduld be done over a gradual period of ~me and also.that contained in ~~at kind of proposal of increases and any additional taxation levers that the federal government migh-c use must be simultaneous initiatives as it related to conservation, as it related to getting energy projects across Canada an t.he :nove, especially those that could produce oil for o~~er for.ns like

November 14, 1979 Tape 1049 i.:C - 2 PREMIER PECK.FORD: hydro-electricity, and that there must be sane cushioning - special cushioning - for the Eastern provinces. So, overall, I t..'link it was a very fruitful exercise and provided rost of t..'te First Ministers with just where everybody in the country, as it relates to First Ministers, sit on the thing. And I anticipate that there should be some agreement on it very shortly, quite possibly before the federal Budget. MR. JAMIESON: MR. SPEAKER: (Simms) the Opposition. Mr. Speaker, a supplementary. A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of 2634

November 14 1 1979 Tape ~io. 1050 SD - 1 MR. D. JJL~IESON: Mr. Speaker 1 r wa-:::ched all of the televised portion of the conference as did many ochers, I am sure 1 in this House. And the quescion of t.he i::.crease with regard to tile price at the wellhead,or whichever formula one wishes ·:o adept, the coming closer to the world price or the Chicago price, obviously, the hon. the Premier supported tb,at.

Is he in a position to tell t:..'le House, however, if his use of che word-and I may not be using precisely the same word bue I think it is the same meaning - t:..~at a graduated increase is going tc be and is, in his view, should be higher than the existing formula, that is1 che one t.h.at has been in place for some time, namely, if my memory serves me righc, one dollar at the end of the year, one dollar in July? Has t:..'le Premier accepted that the increase which he would be prepared to support will be greater than that reflected J..n t:.he present increase? MR.

SPEAKER; (Simms) ?RE!1IER PECKFOP..D: The hon. the Premier. Mr. Speaker, t:..~ere was a fair amount of discussion on that point and it is generally felt by most that if a significant narrowing of the gap is to occur in ~~e next four or five years, given ~~e !act ~~at OPEC no longer controls the price being cnarged in ~~e world for oil ar~ gas -for example, England is not a par: of OPEC and they, o:: course, are selling on the worla market·, there are a nllll~J::Jer of other producers as well~ l1exico is another <,;ho are sellir:::; - ar:J new you have varying prices for crude and for gas or: t.'"le world ~arket.

So you can no longer tie it to any one figure and some of the me.."'lbers of OPEC th.emsel'.Tes seen to be going their separate ways.

So, t.'lere is a fair consensus in t.h.e count::ry 1 and I · ... -auld share that view, that we must L"TTprave t.i-J.e price beyond the present for.:lula in order to >;:.ake any significant measures to narrow 1 t because otherwise t.'le gap ·.vi.::..l re:nain ~the same and therefore not make some of our indigercus ~upplies of crude,which are now no~ confe~itive- :or ex~nple, enhanced recovery, tar sar~s, offshore and so on - that this would gc some ....ays in making them somewhat ::1ore ccrr.pet.itive and gi·.ri:J.g '..:.S sorr.e :nc:e securJ..t.y of sufply ~:<.d. not. be so vulnerable c.o markets outside. 2635

~ovcmber 14, 1979 !tR .• D. JA!U.ESON: :>tR. SPEAKER: {Simms) Opposition. :-:f R. 0. JA.:1IESON : Tape No. l.OSO SD - 2 Supplementary 1 !'"'.r. Speaker. Supplementary, the han. Leader of the Mr. Speaker, the obvious follow-on question from that is (

a) what. level of increase did t.....~e :~ewfoundland delegation,and particularly the Premier 1 indicate ~~ey would be prepared to accept? For example, there was a figure mentioned publicly, I believe it. was somet..~ing of the order of one dollar and then fou.r as being t:.he process for 1980. I am not sure when the fou.r might go into effect, 2636

~;over.ber 14, 1979 '!'ape •:a. 1051 but a very sizeable and a ·-~ery substantial ~ike ever ~he one a~C one formula. Is the Premier in a ?OSition to or is he prepared to state whe~~er or not he is willL~g tc and has indicated that <:hey -...'Ould accept ~hat kind of :formula which I saw r.o~l-tiil.q in the federal positicr:. :o St!qs;est t:1at it HilS not, inC.eeC.,what they c.·ere purposing? ~R. SPE.<'\.KER (Sn!!·!S}: ??!'":,~£?_ ?'SC:-:FOR!J: The bon. the Premier.

There were no precise n~~bers ~entioned either publicly or privately except in line with saying that it had to be somewhere above Hhat the present. forr:n.:la had in it and that additional discussion with Alberta and Saskatchewan and British Col~~ia,as well as wi~~ the other first ministers by phone or telex or who.tever with the Pri:ne Hinister to go over t.h.at. The major principles ur.derly_ing the Government of ~Jewfoundland' s position, ~ .. Speaker, is articulated in the stat:.ernent that:.

I gave publicly in Ottawa which talked about increasing the supply of domestic ;reduced conventional oil, developing ~~n-conventiona1 1 increasing substantially the search subst:.itut:ing alternative areas ;md so on, and going on to say that over a five year period that .,.e should be sonewhere close to 90 per cent of the Chicago price if that could be attaina=le.

So that, therefore, we are looking at somewhere above one and one as the original fonr.ula is .It w-ould see~ somewhere in the thr~e to four dollar a year range as being most acceptable, Above that,: thin.~ it would ~e somewhat disruptive. !t is interesting to note on that score, :~r.

Speaker, that the Economic Cou!"l.Cil of Canada in its conclusions and reconunenti.­ ations in its report, ''Two cheers for the 80s that we recommend that we recorm:rend that the Federal Government announce a commit..'Tlent to increase ':..'":.e dor.,estic ?rice of oil gradually l:y around <::our dollars a !;"-,arrel a ve;;.r "so as not to reach world prices that: are e:<fected to prevail around 1985 or 1986 having due regard to increases in average U.S. oil It" ices""~ which is one group of !....""l.depenc'!ent. people t-:ho have recorr::nended a.rounC. the zarre .J.rea t!":at He are pre~arad to accept given that, zi~ultaneously with ~,at,e;ere will be cushioning and ot.i"ter ef!'orts ::ak.en by the Federal C-ev~rnment. _\m.

D. JAl-!!ESON: A. supplemen-::.ary, :'r. Speaker. :.m. SPEAKER: Final supple~ent.ary, the ~on. ~eadcr of the O:;:positicn. 2637

xover.her 14, 1~79 Tape t:o. 1051 I:M - 2 !-iR. D. JNUESON~ It is interesting to comment on the fact that ci=CUtr$tances alter cases and then suddenly the Sconomic council of Canada, which was the bane of the Conservatives in Opposition,has suddenly become the Bible an which they are relying in Ottawa for support for their position·. One final .suppl-:c:"'entary to t-.'le '1vr.. the ?rernier 1 and since it is my last supplementarv-: have many m::lre~: ut could I ask him i£ his government has a very clear and specific assessment of what ~~e economic i~pact is likely to Ce of the combination of fast rising, ra?i31? escalating Z638

November 14, 1979 Tape No. 1052 Nl1 - l MR. JAMIESON: oil prices over what was a.nticipated 1 plus record high interest rates and the ncw1 what! think is apparent, the quite sharpe decline in demand for Canadian goods and the like in ~,e United States? In other words, if I might be. permitted, Mr.

Speaker, could I simply ask the Premier, and I will not ask him to give a comprehensive statement at the moment,but is there in existence an assessment of the down side and the negative side in the run of ,let us say, the next two or three years on the Newfoundland economy of all of these matters which are clearly inter-related? M.R. SPEAl<ER (Simms): The han. the Premier. PR&~IER PECKFORD: First on the comment, !1r.

Soeaker _. if ! may be allowed,as to the Economic Council of Canada and bibles we should. refer to, on April 12th., in 1978 in the House of Commons, the then !1inister of External Affairs, now Leader of th.e Opposition opposite here,might be interested to remember what he said at that time so ~hat he might use that as a basis far his line of questioning because in his s~atement on April 12th., 1978-he did talk about thatJ of course, energy prices must rise substantial:.y-in th.e international communities it has a lot to do wi t:~l it, in Canada it does not and so on.

So there is a lot there tllat ~~e Leader of the Opposition in hi3 line of questioning from here on on energy prices should take into account, the Economic Council of Canada and his own statements a couple of years ago. There are a nuwber of analyses underway relating to the impact upon the Canadian •=canomy and these are well in hand now. The Department of Energy, Mines and ?Esources in Ottawa have published, ~he Government of Canada, ~hree doc~~ents which became public yesterday which show some impact across the connc::::y which I think are available now to the Le.fder of the Cpposition.

And T will try to get that inforw~tion for the Leader of the Opposition by tomorrow, these documents 1 so ~~at ~~ey do show same ~mpac~. I also refer me~ers of the Opposition and menmers of this side of .':.he House t.o June lEth., .l.97S •,;hen c.he Z639

~ovember 14, 1979 Tape No. 1052 HM - 2 PRL~IER PECKFORD: present Leader of the Opposition in Ottawa, the then Prime Minister, ''Well, Mr. Speaker, the han. member is arguing that the price of oil in Canada can remain at half or somewhat slightly above half world prices for a long while and we will still be able to be self-relient in ~~is country ten years down the road, he has certainly taken a position which this government does not share. 11 I take it the Ldader of ··the Opposition was then a part of ~~t particular government and I table those as some kind of evidence. MR. SPEAKER: The bon. member for the Strait of Belle Isle. MR. ROBERTS: Mt. Speaker, I am delighted that the Premier (

a) has been doing his homework; and {

b) I hope the Minister of Lands and Forests notes particularly that what former premiers say applies to present premiers and ~,e points about Cabinet solidarity. We will hear more about that. ;\!1 HO~l. ~~ER: (Inaudible}. MR. ROBERTS: Hr. Speaker, I agree the t1inister of - what is he? Minister of ~ands and Forests, made the statements in a committee of the House which is just about the same, I think the Premier 'llill agree, but anyway 1 that is not oy qut:!stioll 1 Mr. speaker. You are wondering if I have one and I do.

I have a question, Sir, for the Minister of Finance in ~is capaci~y as the minister directly =esponsible fer the provincial economy and essentially it grcws out of the question which my colleague 1 the Leader of ~~e Opposi~ion 2640

November 14, 1979 Tape 1053 ?K - 1 !A.r. Roberts: just asked. The Premier did not answer it. The Premier spoke only of national impact studies. I wonder if the Minister of Finance could tell us,please 1 the result, the outcome of the impact studies that he has directed to be carried out,and has had carried out 1 on the eFfect of these rises on, for example, let us start with our fishery? Could ':he minister tell us please_" DR. COLLINS: ~. ROBERTS: Prcvin~e the fisheries. of it? I am sorry 1 on our what? On our fisheries, the basic industry in the What is the rise going to do to the economics MR. SPEAXER (MR.

SI!.1JA.S): The hen. Minister of Finance. DR. J. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, ! presume the han. House Leader opposite wishes me to give a dissertation for six or seven hours. Do I understand him to say, he wants me to - MR. ROBERTS: ~. Speaker, to a point of order. :1R. SPEAKER: On a point of order. MR. ROBERTS: The han. gentleman has a right. to answer the question, Sir. He has no right to ask me a question.

However, since he has asked me, ! w~uld say I would welcome six and seven hours because then he might give us some informa~ion which is more than he has done, But he has no right in answering a ques~ion, Sir, to ask a question and that is my point a= order. MR. SPEAKER: I would not consider it to be-a point of order. We certainly have had precedents in the past where ministers in seeking clarification of ~ question asked have certainly done that by leave. If the han. minister wishes to have the hen. member for the Strait of Belle Isle (Hr.

Roberts) to repeat his question, then that is his prerogative; if not, then the hon. minister may continue to answer the question. DR. COLI.::!1S: '!'hank you, :-tt. Speaker. ! · .. mderstand in Question Period one is asked to respcnd to a specific question. I would like t.!'le l:on. :"C7tbe::: o;::pcsite to specify his question a little bit ::nore clearly. Z64l.

Nove:nber 14 1 1979 Tape 1053 PK - 2 MR. SPEA..l:ER {SIMMS) : The han. member :=or tJ-le .ct":r:>_•.~ of Belle Isle. MR. ROBERTS: I will be delighted to and I hope the minister will listen a little more carefully because ~ think 1£ he reads the Hansard' he will find out it is very specific.

I would like him to tell the House the results,insofar as they affect the fishery,of the impact studies that he has had carried out 1 or has carried out by his officials, and the L~pact studies are of the iMnact on the fisheries, en the economy of the fisheries, the economy of the fishing industry, of the rises in oil pr.ices which are apparently going to be brought. in with the full consent and approbation of the mL~ister and his colleagues. Exactly what is it ~ning to mean to the fishing industry to have gasoline go up to Sl.SO or Sl.60 a gallon? All I want to ~,ow is what is it going to mean?

Are we going to lose jobs 1 gain jobs or what? l'lhat do his studies shew? MR. SPEAKER: The hen. :.tinister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, as far as I am aware the increase in oil prices or in the increase in crude, that is, in prospects, in certain prospect to my kn9wledqe is one dollar on t~e barrel on January 1. Now we have had increases of that order in the past, and ! de not tr~nk that these increases have had an appreciable effect en the fishery.

Hen. me:r.bers will underStand, of course, that the fishing industry is given certain protections L~ terms of costs of material including costs of fuel oil, gasol~'1e, and so on. And, of course, there has been no indication that I am aware of at the ;;;resent time that this goverr-.ment L'1tends to change that. )!F.. ROBERTS: ~1?.. SP::::tlJCER: of Belle Isle. :1R. ?DEERTS: Mr. Speaker, a supplementarf. A supplementary, the hon. member for the St~ait do not k.."10W. 2642

November 14,1979 Tape No.lOS4 AH-1 ~m. F.OBERTS: if the minister was listening to his Premier or not; if he was not he ought to have been because the Premier clearly indicated something which all of us know1which is that ~~e dollar per barrel oil price increase presently scheduled for 1 January, which is the fo~ula established by ~,e previous Liberal administration , that that is obviously going to be increased significantly so the minister either does not know what he is talking about or is not listening. more directly, please. PREMIER PECKFOF.D: MR.

SPEAKER: (Simms) PREMIER PECKFORD: Now let me ask the minister another question A point of order. A point of order. The hen. the Premier. Mr. Speaker, in the

preamble to tl1e member's question, I have not indicated in any answers that I gave whether in JanuarJ ~~e price would be over and above one dollar. I am saying that next year, the price- that would be at ~~e end of December of next year-·..;ould be greater t.'l.an the existing forr..c!a. So wheth.er in fact the price goes up over one dollar in ~anuarJ is still not decided and I have not indicated it. Eut I have indicated that overall next year, in the next twelve months from January to December 1980,the price is anticipated to go higher ~~an one and one. !1R. ?:OBERTS: To that point of order, Mr. Speaker. ~R.

SPEAn::R: Tc the point of order, the hen; member £or the Strait of 3elle Isle. M~. ROBERTS~ I am gratef~l to the Premier if I misinterpreted him. I would also like to offer him a chance to let Me win back ~'l.e wager I lest to him on the 9eneral election if he wants to wager that as of 1 January the price wi~h Jolly Jack Crosbie will not go up more than one dollar a barrel. But ! am grateful wit~ him for :-.is ·ccmrnen ts. MR. SPEAK.ER: MR. ?.OBEFI'S: ~-P.. SPE.'\f:ER~ OrCer, please! Does Your Honour wish to :nake a ruling? Yes. 2643

November 14,1979 PREMIER PECKFORO: !1R. ROBERTS: Tape No. 1054 AH-2 I cannot take up the wager until ~ get paid from tte last one. Double or nothing? MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! With respect tc the pnint of order raised, it is clearly a difference of opinion between t"WO rneiT'.bers. The hon. member for the Strai~ of Belle Isle may wish to continue with his supplementarJ. MR. ROBERTS: I have a supplementarJ. The hen. minister cannot get a piece of it. He may get a drink of it. Mr.

Speaker, what I want to ask the Minister of Finance (Dr.Collins) is whether he has had carried out any studies at all to show the effect upon the economy of this Province of ~~e proposed 1 projected, suggested, or potential increases in the price of oil? That is certainly much bette! 1 and hopefully I will get a-better answer. One has to go the long way around sometimes to get to where one is trying to. Could the minister tell us f:ease whe~;er he has had any studies carried out? tA.R. SPEAKER: DR. COLLINS: The han. Minister of Finance. Mr.

Speaker, I suggest ~~e hen. member is getting intO a very hypothetical area. At ~~e present time we know that ~~ere will be a price increase. This is nat a price increase that the Newfoundland govert".rnent is bringing into effect. It is ~~e price increase ~~at the federal government in association wi~; the producing provinces will bring into ~ffect on the first of January, I believe the date is. We know that ~~ere will be a price increase ~~ere. That is the only price increase that we know for certain '""ill come into effect.

When such time as we are required to carry out studies on oU1er basic ~its of information 1 these studies •...-ill be carried out. There are certain projections, there are certain assurrpticns 2644

November 14, 1979 Tape 1055 EC - l OR. J. COLLINS: made in the Department of .Finance in terms of carrying out its duties as there are in other departments. But we do not propose to give det.a.iled information on the basis of assu:nptions until such time as we have something very solid to work on. MR. ROBERTS: A final supplementa.ty. MR. SPEAKER: (Simms) A final supplementacy, tile hen. the member for the Strait of Belle Isle. MR. ROBERTS~ Thank -you, Sir. I .find it interesting that the minister says it is hypothetical and then tells us it is certain. It is obvious there have been no studies carried out.

My question now, Sir, is this1 Can the minister tell us how much extra equalization money will come? Because, aS Your Honour knows, every increase in the price of oil itnposeci by the Government of canacia puts money directly in the hancis of the government of this Province as well as it takes money out of t."le hands of the people of this Province. Can the minister tell us how much extra in equali:ation 1 how much of an increase in t..~e $334 million he projects in the current fiscal year, how much extra will come for each dollar increase? He knows there is to be a Sl increase.

Can he :.ell us, please, how much each extra dollar on the price of a barrel of oil will bring into the pocket.s of the Treasury of. this Province? MR. SPEAKER: The hen. th~ Minister of Finance. CR. J, COLLINS; Mr. Speaker, I think that that figure is fairly easily arriveci at. I do not. have the exact dollar figure at hand, but I will certainly undertake to get it for ~"le hon. metr~er. MR. ROBERTS: Thank you. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for ~aPoile followed by the hon. the member for Bonavista North, ·followed by the hon. the member for W.fiidsor - Buc:.>tans. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, let us get:. cia.ln to brass tacks. I want to di.rect a quest.ion t.o the hon. the Premier, Sir. Newfouncilanders feel that the position of the ~~ewfou.'ldland Gove::nment that ~'le Premier took at. t."le conference on :1onciay ..,as a sell-out. for Newfoundlande::s. Z645

November 14, 1979 Tape lOSS EC - 2 MR. NEARY• Would the hon. gentleman tell us what Newfoundland traded off to Alberta in order for Newfoundland to take the lead? Rich Ontario said, 'No increases in prices except what ·..,as already committed, 1 Newfoundland 1 taking the lead (or weal. thy Alberta in advocating an increase in oil prices, What did Newfoundland trade off? What does Newfoundland expect to get in return? Does it have anything to do with borrowing from the Government of Alberta?

Why did Newfoundland take the position and sell out Newfoundlanders, the constme:rs in this Province, by taking the lead in advocating an increase in oil prices? MR. SPEAKER: (Simms) PREMIER PECKFORD: The hen. the Premier. Mr. Speaker, the Government of Newfoundland sold off no_'thing, it sold out to nobody and there are no deals. There u nothing trade-offa.ble on this one. This is a matter of policy and of principle with the government.

We have indicated that we agree with the rise, as has British Columbia, as has Alberta, as has Saskatchewan, as has Manitoba, as has Quebec, as has New Brunswick, as has Prince Edward Island, as has Nova scotia - and ourselves and the federal government,- and all parties are in agreement across Canada on that. So there have been no trade-offs "'ith the Province of Alber-ta or with anybody else.

We have said that we agree with a gradual rise to 90 per cent of the American price. rn other words 1 there will always be a subsidy there from the producing provinces to show and demonstrate that this is somewhat an unusual situation so that there will be a subsidy for a long period of time from the producing provinces -:o t.'te rest of Canada. We have said that t."lat must be linked to other initiatives being taken, because ~"te 2646

~;ovember 14, 1979 '!.'ape no. 1056 !J\-1 - 1 PF.El1IER PECKFOF..D: Federal Goverrut'.ene will get additional revenue as a result of these incrcast:!S and ~~at there must be some special cushioning effects, special programmes put in place for low income Canadians, for low income ~Tewfoundlanders and LabraCorians or the whole question of people, the old age pensioners and so on and the ot.'"ter people, the working poor.

So we have put that as a full fackage. ~·Je have not said that v:e approve of oil and gas increases in canada wit.l-tout having •t~it.'"t. it other means by which the people of ~l~Nfot.:ndland will be protected.

And t.hat is the position we "'ill continue to take because ·ne think it is both responsible and realistic- and in "line with rrost "of t.'le things that t.he :::concmic Council of CanaCa are saying, in line with most of the t~ings ~l-tat the most responsible agencies in Canada are now saying. 3ut it has nothin.g to do ·;~it!"l trade-offs, i':. has to Co Hit.h il responsible realistic position and at t-he same t.i!"'.e trying to safeguard J?Ocrer parts of ·:anada inclu~..i:::g ~lewfou.:1dland and Lurrador. 1\ suPplementary, ~~r. Speaker. A suppler",entary, the ::on. ren-ber for LaPoi:lc. ~~R.

S. :lEA?.'f: :~r. sr:eaker, the hen. gentleman can Co all ':.he fancy stick handling he wants Cut ~~e fact of ~he ~atter is that ~·Jewfour.C:lar::i :tas taJ.:en the lead ir: advocating an increase in oil ,?rices. :~auld it not have been better I an asking the Premier, to corr.c do...,n on the siCe of Qntario, rich ontario that says, ·~c 1 ;'Why would Newfoundland take the leaC and not come out on the side of Ontario anC. say, ":c, :.ncreases in oil', rather ~~an taY.e the ga~le in a hope that ~l-te lNve~nt of Canada ~~uld continue the sul::sidy and proviC.e a little sOmething ;or people or, l:::w inco~c and fi:<:ed incomes? f.l'h~· gamble, why r.ot j~st cone de"•':~ on the si.Ce of Cntario and say, ·~:o, no increases L'1 oil'? ~he ~an. the P~en!er. '!r.

Speake.r, t:!-:c !-:on. r:"e!"'ber for LaPoile U1r. S. Near}} has a problem. disagrees with his leaCer on the ether side, as enunciate2 by his leader some t:i:ne aqo ::.e disagrees with the present Lew.r2er of t~,o Li:!::'3ral ?a~y in Jttawa, I would :;ugges-:. that :::,e :-.on. ;"Jerl:::er We .... iue tali<ing about (inaudible) 2647

November 14 , 1979 Tape r:o. 1056 ru - 2 PFEH!ER PECY.FORD: He is going to have to rove his seat very quickly, there is no ~~estion about that.3e has no support among people in his own party, he has no support among nine of the provincial premiers. We are taking, as is l':ova Scotia and ?.E.I. and New Brunswick,what we think is a responsible approach to a ve~f difficult problem.

The aim of Ca:1ada and the aim of most parts of the world outside of the Hiddle East and oil producing countries 1 is an aim to tr'/ to become more self­ sufficient so that we are not as vul~erable; so that the Cnited States is not so vulnerable, so that Canada is not so vulnerable to the whims of a group of people in th,e Hiddle East t"'ho1 for whatever reason 1 might. decide to·~~ange policies as has been demonstrated by events in !ran over the last number of months and the last year. And t."le only way you can become self-sufficient, Mr.

Speaker, is to impro~~ ~~e cost that will be paid to oil produced in Canada, oil produced in the Vnited States and the only way that that can Z648

November 14, 1979 Tape No. 1057 r-.11 - 1 ?P~MIER ?ECKFORD: can be done on a reasonable, responsible compassionate basis, is at the same time as those increases are allowed to occur, that revenue thereby generated '"'ill also go to offset the lower incomes in the poorer parts of Canada and 1 think that is a reasonable approach to a very difficult problem.

It is one that we have to come to grips with, West Germany and Japan• two of the greatest nations in ~~e world from a productivity point of view,~indsutrial capacity point of view, bit the bullet earlier on as has been demor~trated in all kinds of analysis and are now living with. higher ail and gas costs and yet are still able t:.o generate an economy which is =ar in excess of what the United States or Canada has been able to do. It is a responsible position to a difficult problem. aR. !'lEARY: (Inaudible) . MR. SPEAKER (Simms): I indicated I would recognize the han. member fer Bonavista North (Hr.

Stirling) but if he is willing to yield I will recognize the hen. Leader of the Opposition. HR. STIRLING: I yield. :-!R. JA.'1!ESON: Mr. Speaker, I realize that the Question Period is not the point at which to debate and I do not intend to do so, but given some of the answers which the han. Premier has ?rovided I want to ask him ~~is in saying to him that I do pot disagree wi~~ :he member for LaPoile {Mr.

Neary), in fact if he looks a~ the record he will see that I have been arguing for several weeks chat it was unnecessary, but given the complexity of ~~is matter, and che ur9ency of it insofar as the Newfoundland economy is concerned, would he agree chat the House Leaders consult •..;i::h a view to having a .:'Ull scale debate, perhaps, at t.he appropr~ate time and very soon on this whole question of the policy o£ the government with regard to oil pricing and all energy related mat::ers. The han. the Premier. 2649

November 14, 1979 Tape No. 1057 NM - 2 PREMIER PECKEORD: Mr. Speaker, as soon as it is clear what the poll~/ is across Canada ! think there will be ample opportunity for members on both sides of the House to debate this very important issue. I call upon the han. Leader of the Opposition to ~4ke clear his 9osition on this, as well as other matters,because I have before me, as I indicated earlier, comments by the Leader of the Opposition which in no way show any similarity to those just artic~ated by one of his members, the member for LaPoile \Mr.

Neary), It is one thing to say now where you stand, and it is one thing to sa~ I guess, on April 12th., 1978, and ·t~hat his leader now says in Canada as it relates to oil prices. I have a voluminous number ~f documents here which indicate a very strong position towards world prices by the Leader of the Opposition and by his leader in Canada and therefore I 5ind it extremely unusual for the han. ~,e Leader of the Opposition suddenly to find himself thrust in a very inconsistent role which is one I am sure he feels vert uncomfortable with. t.J:R. JAMIESON~ I am not sure, Mr.

Speaker, if this is a point of order or not; ·I am prepared to ask it as a - ~. SPEAKER (Simms): A possible point of order. :>t.t:!.. JA..'HESON: - a possible point of orde!: 'Nith regard to the last intervention of the han. the Premier. 1 think it is quite inappropriate to extract or to make illusions to ~e!erences,to scrr,c state~~nts made in the past.

For instance, it would be just as illogical for me to say that,of course, the han. the Premier is out of his head because his predecessor was going to have Chu=chill Falls an stream by now and that there were all kinds of logical ~easons why that should have been done. That is another reason for re?eating my question but ! ask specifically, when he says there will be ample opportunities for full debat:e ,,...ill he gHre an undert:aking to the House new that an opportunity will be provided and ::hat t:.he gove!:nment •t~ill co-operate in making -:,_ha~ kind of o:;:portunity available. 2650

Nove~ber 14, 1979 Tape 1058 PI< - l ~. SPEAKER (SIMMS): order, please! If I might to the possible point of order. I think I will take it under advisement because the particular portion of the Standing Orders related to newspaper extracts applies to oral Questions and not to Answers. So I will have to take it under advisement to see if it does also apply to Answers. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Premier. PREMIER ?ECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, I£ I may just re~pond. I mean, the Opposition have an opportunity now, this i~ Private Members' Day.

The House is going to be open for a number of weeks,_Private Members' Day can be taken to debate this matter, at different times. So, you know, there will be amble opportunity for the Opposition to do this trow, ~x. speaker, the ~on. Leader of the Opposition is going to force me - I shall have to read, I mean not what his Leader said , Mr.

Speaker, but what he himself said in the House of commons on April 12, 1978, and he goes on,"! see next to me the t1inister of Energy, ~ines, and Resources, and I a~ sure that he would confirm that the energy problems that we are facing in Canada, whether they are of tremendous magnitude or nqt by world standards, are much less onerous upon the Canadian consumer than those, for example, in many of the countries that ! have mentioned.

And it is pointless =or us to confuse the public or delude the public 1 as is often-done by members opposite, and, perhaps 1 in =airness,by all members of this"House 1 into 3SS~~ing chat in a world in which there has been a quadrupling of oil prices in the last three to five years it is possible ~o shield consumers in this country from the ef=ect of something which occurred in the ~iddle Sast, and which is very wrapped up in an international situation. You knew, I mean, the hen. Leader of the Opposition cannot have it both ways.

And the fac~ of the matter is that -.;e have :o be responsible and at the sa.'?,e time as leaders of ~pinion, as leaders o= ;:olicy in this country;. try to develop :r-easonable approache5 to difficult problems to ensure that we as Newfoundlanders and canadians can continue to be productive in this countr·:, given a lot of the problems :hat ·;;e have. 2651

~ovember 14, 1979 Tape 1058 PK - 2 SOME HON. }1'1!''-!BERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER (SI!1MS) : Order, please! Order, plea~e! The t!me for Oral Questions has expired. MR. ROBERTS: could I ask a supplemeptary? If Your Honour has leave to de it? If the han. - I just ~imply want to ask the Premier if he will agree to allow Private Members' Day to be used today for a debate on energy? It cannot be done without consent because there are motions on the paper.

But since the-Premier has offered, I a.-n sure :ny colleagues and I are prepared , anC the Leader of the Opposition is prep~red to reply to the ?remier's-hiserionics, but can we agree this day to have a debate on energy, take this day and the next day, Your Honour, and the motion will stand. I may be out of order, but the Premier raised it, and if it is in order could we do it? We would like to have a debate on energy and that i3 the cnly way we can do it~ is now. SOHE HON. ~MEERS: )ffi. SPO...KER: Hear, hear! It is cenainly unusual.

Whether it is out: of order or not I am not quite certain, but if the Premier wishes to reply he may, if not, I will call the n~xt order of debate. The hon. the Premier. ?RE~IEF. P£C!CFORD: It is totally out of order, Xr. Speaker. I will ~e only too happy ~o take on the hen·. S0:1E ECN. ME.M.BERS ~ PREMIER PECKFORD: oh, oh: Mr. Speaker, ! will be only too happy to take on the Leader of the Opposition today, ,now. 2652

November 14, 1979 SOME HON. MEMBERS: PREMIER PEoc.FORD: MR. ROBERTS: point of order. MR. SPEAKER: (Simms) PREMIER PECKFORD: from the ?PpoS~tion Hause Leader. MR. SPEAKER: Oral Questions has expired. Tape 1059 EC - l Hear, hear! A point of order, Mr. Speaker. M.r. Speaker, I am standing on a Order, please! Order, please! I did not hear a point of order I have ruled that the time for MR. ROBERTS: I should like to raise a point of order, if I might, Your Honour 1 I understand that the --?uas:tioli Period is over. MR. SPEAJXR: DO you understand the Question Period is over? MR. ROBERTS: point of order. MR.

SPEAKER: MR. ROBERTS: I do, indeed, Your Eonour. I have a A point of order. The point of order is very simply, Sir, to ask what motion is before the House. ~--As thera ~is no motion in the name of my friend and colleague, the Leader of the Opposition, perhaps it would be appropriate simply to put down, you know, that this House debates the government's energy - I man, perhaps my friend. and colleague could start - the two House Leaders can workout a. :leutral wardi?g so that we can have a debate on energy this day. Would that be acceptable to the Premier? MR.

SPEAKER: The han .. the Premier.~ PREMIER PECXFORO: To that point of order. Considering the fact that tb.i.s Yas brought up at th.e last minute, and t.otally out of order 1 by the Opposition and that it is something that I have agreed to, I would appreciate very muc.i. - given the fact of our co-operation in this matter and putting th.e motion of the han. the member for St. John's !!lorth (Mr. J.

Carter} back a day or a week, whichever way you want to look at it., I would be most receptive to scm kind of a :rotion which says that the government wished to debate this whole epergy question today to at. least give recognition to the fact. t.i.at we were willing so to debate. 2653

Nov~ber 14, 1979 Tape 1059 EC-2 MR. ROBERTS: Your Honour, r, for my part, will try to work out ·&erding to that effect with the House Leader, my friend and colleague opposite. Perhaps the debate could begin. The two House Leaders will go out and we will ~~rk out t?e wording. I am quite willing to acknowledge that the Premier's agreement to our suggestion is what has made possible this debate. ! am certainly willing to try to find words to embody that in a ~otion, assuming I can satisfy his colleague, the House Leader. He and I aze both reasonable men and at times we can even satisfy each other. SOME HON.

MEMBERS: HR. SPEAKER {SIMMS): r-m. }IJ\RSHALJ:.: MR. SPEAKER: Hear, hear! Order, please! Mr. speaker. The han. President of the Council. I will hear one more argument before ruling on the point of order. MR. MARSHALL: ~r. Speaker, the government is quite affable and quite '..:illing to discuss - eager and wiling, as a matter of =act, if we can get together. Perhaps we can adjourn, Mr. Speaker, for a few moments. I will say though, ! do nat see any need of getting into any particular technicalities about it.

Perhaps the best way to do it is that - the opposition or a segment of the Opposition anyway, I am not quite clear, is dissatisfied with the answers that it has gotten from the Premier, and perhaps we can just debate that in the same way as we would the Late Show. But ! do not know whether we need any formal, technical words, AN HCU. HE.M.BER: (Inaudible). ;.m, :.JARsHALL: A five minute adjcurn:nent, :<~r. speaker. MR.

SPEAKER: If I might make a suggestion, if ! could get a word in here,rr~ybe we could proceed, w~th you indulgenc~, with the routine matters and then perhaps have a ten minute adjournment prior to the Orders of the Day. Is that agreeable to both sides? SOHE HON. ~!BEP.S: .~greed. Z654

.. ~ November 14, 1979 Tape 1059 EC - 3 NOTICES OF MOTION MR. SPEAKER: (Simms l The hen. t.he member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I do not know if rey motion would cover what han. members were talking about a few moments ago. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. NEARY: I would like to ask leave, Sir, to introduce the following resolution.

WHEREAS NewfoundlanQers are very concerned that the present economic policy of our government may preclude a.ll our natural resources and industries except the gamble of an offshore oil and gas dis co very; and

WHEREAS people all over the Province are terrified over the possibility of a ghastly oil spill t:hat could ruin the fishery and/or our wildlife; BE IT THEREFORE RESOLVED that a Select.

Committee of the House of Assembly be appointed immediately to work aut a master plan for the orderly economic development of all our natural. resources inc! uding oil and qas , the fishery, agriculture, forestry and mineral resources f and BE IT FURI'HER RESOLVED that this Select Committee examine the impact of an offshore discovery of oil or gas on the ::oocial and economic lives of-our people, especially families who derive their livelihood from our natural resources mentioned above, and people living on iow and fixed incomes. MR. SPEAKER: ~e will adjourn for ten minutes. Z655

Nove~ber 14, 1979 Tape !-1o. 1060 OW - 1 !>-!!.'!.. SPEAKER: Order, please! The hen. me~ber for ~~e Strait of Belle Isle. !-!r. Speaker, I •..,-auld say to t.>-te House ti1at dispite or perhaps because of the adjournment the two House : .. eaC.;:r::: 1"·'W0 not been able to ar=ive at a resolution of ~,_e resolution and accordingly I t.,ink that is a fair statenent. We may not agree on much else as to what went on and each of us will doubtless give his o-wn~version of '..that went on: but I understand accordingly the House will proceed with ~,e normal order of Cusiness, whatever t.,at may be for this day. :·lR.

SPEAKER: (S!HMS} !-1?.. ~!AP.SH~.LL: The hon. ?resident of the council. Mr. Speaker, I concur t."l.at the::e could be no agreement_. Sba~L,.,e leave it at the presen-::. stage anj-"'-ray1 in this form 1 that there was no agreement on the procedure, so consequent:l7 we Hill revert to the normal Private :~ei!'.bers' Day. But. ! say, :t::.", Speaker, :or the sake of the !!ause,il ceYtain book has come to rr'Y- I cannot t:al:::le it because it belongs to the :,.on. r:errber for St. John's ~iorth O'r.

C'art:er) and ':'<,e may be using it in the debate, I 2o not know,so this ~ay forebade what goes on for the rest c;f the afternoon, a verj interesting Cook lle paSseC :ne,entitled A Bock Cf Ir.sult.3 Ancient. anC. :•,oC.e=n ·,,;hich : am sure -;.;ill te a g:::-eat. utility to t:::e debate in ~1--:e :!otlSe this afternoon. ~:r. Speaker. The ~on. ~erber :or ~~e Strait of Belle Isle. :m. :::. RCEEF:':'S: St.

John's ~-lorth :::'eads it and tables it, it is an excellent ::oak and I am sure :'1e •.;oulC also refer to t!1e co~:mio:: !:oak ·dth ~k.ich his colleacrces Hill !:..ecomc oore far::iliar 1 it:. is called the: Book of c-coC-b•1es. 'Jh, oh! 2656

Nove~Zer 14, l9i9 Tape ~o. 1060 OH - 2 OPDERS OF THE DAY ~!R. SPEAKER: ~..otion 4. The hon. member for Kilbride. S011E "EON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! Thank you, :u-. St:')eaker, I feel ver.f inept standing here at this time.! expected it to be a very lively debate on energy and ! guess they are going to have to stand here and tear with me for a while now. Nith great pleasure I stand here and support the r:Ption brought forw-ard by the metl"ber for- St.

Jolin's North (!--!r. 'Carter) And in recalling my own school days 1 on this particular matter, I have always felt ~~at I had probletrs in school relatins lifferent subjects to present day culture and .:eelings and things that I felt should be in school.l<7e were required to do quite a bit of reading on Shakespeare and the like of this and I always felt, even at t.l:at age, that it ~:ould have been more pertinent had we been required to read more of our own ~~lture, history and know more of ~ur own ?rovince.

I realizeci at t~e time! was in ~chaol 1 sorne :ifteen or sixteen years ago 1 that there might have been problems in availability of certain materials concerning our own culture and heritage. E.ut I art !Jure that in this day and age with all of t.l-te writers and authors ':..'l.at •,:e Co have in our ?rovince 1 and we have a publishing company operating here in the ?rovince, there is a great nur.ber of books and material ~vailable for our children to !)e reading in school and to have included in the curriculum so that they will know ~re of our culture and rr~re o: our historJ.

It is this government's committment as I understand it, and has been expressed by the ?remi~r on several occasions, ~,at i= there :tad !:een a feelinq of inferiority aronqst ;-iewfoundlanders when comparing ~'l.er.selves to other peoples and other nations, we are about to trJ our best to change this and pro!:ably in the near ~=uture we '.rill !lave a ::eeling of superiorit?. In order for any of our school children to appreciate our ?rovince,we have t:a teach ther:1 at il young age all a:: the assets and benefits of our Frovi!lce.

To feel superior 1 or even to ::eel equal w-e r:ms<: be taught that our Province i.s as great or greater t::an t~ny ;:;t!1er land or count:--; in canaCa cr in the 'c:orld. Our chileren r,ust kr:cw cur Province anC. t!iey !nUSt 265'7

November 14, 1979 Tape No. 1061 so - 1 .'1R. R. AYLWARD: Although, as a child I had no problem developing a feeling of pride for my own community of Kilbride, and because I was sent to school in the big City of St.

John's at that time, although they were ver1 close they were much different in context and a very big contrast as an urban and a rural community, yet, I was very familiar with Kilbride and farming and this type of background but I was unfamiliar with o~~er parts of our Province, And it was not taught to me in school, anything about our fishing heritage or our seal hunt or any of these things or logging, forest industries were not taught to me.

And as I have children in school today, and the oldest is now in about Grade IV, in doing his studies with him and his homework, I still find no great improvement in our own history being included in the schooi curriculum. In order that a child from St. John's or Kilbride or the Goulds understar.ci. t:he controversy t.."lat we have in the Spring over the seal hunt, they have to understand the history of ~"le seal hunt and the history of the hunters themselves, the economic values of the seal hunt to our Province.

If ~"ley hear and see on television the controversy which people have laid on our Province, as ~urderers of babt seals, I believe we were called, it is difficult for my children in Kilbride, who have nev~r been related co the seal hunt and it is difficult for them to kno~ the value of it unless ~~ey are being ~aught in school and, of course, ~eir parents also have a responsibility. It is i.mportant for the children on t.he coast of Labrador to understand the problems arA assets of living in ~arger urban communities.

And it. is inportant.· for the cnildren :.hroughout. our urban cent=es to know and learn the joys and frustrations of living in more remote parts of our Province, particularly prable~s wi~~ transportation. If we decide, and I am certain t...~at. ·.;e will decide, that =:ore local ::onc.cnc is required in our sc!',cols, t.his will present a problem of fitting these local contants int.o our 3choal c.irnetable. 2658

~lovember 14, 1979 Tape No, 1061 SD - 2 HR. R.

AYLWARD: The Education Task Force Report which I have gone over briefly 1 on page 99, I believe it says.-one quote here says; nTeachers have indicated that once a timetable for language, arts and ~4thematics is established and provisions made for some physical education and maybe some music, which is often taught by specialists, and is outside the regular teachers' timetable, there is as little as twenty minutes per day remaining for all other subjects." And the subjects as recommended in this are offered by our Department of Education and can be offered to the school children.

There are fifteen subjects and to fit twelve or thirteen of these subjects in the thir~y minutes would be very difficult. We will have to include our own culture and heritage and tex~oks on the language arts 1 and we will need to put ~~em in social studies and other typical subjects - geography and historj. I note here that history, out of a number of school studies in elementary and primary grades, history is not shown, is not offered in some schools and in other schools ~here is only a combination of historf and geography.

Also the Task Force Report goes on to say, "That there is a noticeable lack of project work and little local content in social studies in many of our schools." If these people who s~udied our education system and brought in recommendations realize that local content is very necessarJ, and they men~cn it on several different cccasions,and besides our his~ory and knowing cur own Province there are other problems of not ha¥ing local courses or not knowing our Prcv~nce and having ~ur own h~story and that, And one problem - ~,ere is a special

section here on coastal Labrador, Ute special problems of coastal !.abrader, . .J.nd it states here t. . .'"lat,'":.'he st:.u.u.ents of coastal Labrador scmeti.'!les find tex~s of various· subject areas difficult to undestand !:or t· ... 'O-main reason.sj t.'ley do not speak the language and t.hey C.o net speak tile culture." 2659

~ovember 14,1979 Tape No. 1062 A!l-1 !-1R. AY'LWAP.D: This is one very important reason why we need our own culture brought into our school system, and the culture of different regions also needs to be brought in, particularly for people who do not - many of pur Labrador students do not speak the language and are not used to the culture ~~at we find in these textbooks, mostly Americanized textboots.

We have to develop a knowledge of our Province and it is ~ very important reason for having local content I have been very _fortunate in that ~~e profession which I chose happened to be land s~-veying and it goes hand in hand with land surveying that yoc visit each and every part of ~,e Province and you g~t to·know the Province not from a standpoint of taking a weeks holidays or taking ~~e trailer and driving through a community~ but as a land surveyor, visit:.ing different peoples and living wi~~ different peoples 1 I realized that there are many different aspects to our community and the only possible way that our children can find these - they cannot all be as fortunate as I am, to be able to travel the Province frequently throughout ... they have to be taught these, history and our own culture in school,so that they can understand and realize ~~at our Province is one of the greatest ?rovinces in the world. ;m, SPEAKER: { Baird) MR.

JA.."1.!ESON: Thank you, Sir. The hon. Leader of ~~e Cpposition. ~hank you, _very much, Mr. Speaker, and it is as someone cow.mented,pleasant to have a non-controversial matter of this kind with which to follow on after a somewhat involved and convoluted half hour or so. I may sa~ by the way: that I will be looking forward to the hon. member 'for St. John's ~~orth (J .Carter) when l:le gets his right to reply at the end of ~,e private members'proceCure which,of course,is a fundamental part of that arrangement.

And no doubt he will at that time not only elucidate on some of the matters ~~at will be raised and have been raised Curing ~~is debate =ut will at the same time, also, perhaps ~ven be a little bit more specific as to the nature of the resolution-. Z660

November 14,1979 Tape No. 1062 1\ll-2 MR. JAMIESON: I think some of my predecessor speakers an both sides of the House have said that this is essentially a motherhood resolution. There is nothing wrong with mo~~erhood. I keep emphasizing that and nevertheless it would be exceedingly-difficult to find anything in this resolutiun with which to argue that the government be encouraged to review the materials ~resently used in our schools with a view to insuring that such educational materials adequately reflect the culture, historf and experience of the people of the Province.

I can only assume t."lat if the Department of Education and its officials, for many of whom I have an extremely high regard,are doing their jobs at all, then ~"ley must be in the process of doing exactly that much of the time. In other words, that surely one of the fundamental neCessities of any curriculum is that it provide students with a comprehensive awareness of their own bac.t;.ground, their own culture and their own history.

There is so much t."lat I could say on this particular subject but being limited to twenty minutes and net having,as I said,any second chance or opportunity in ~~is debate I just want to zero in on three or four points that I believe are relevant, Mr.Speaker, and that I hcpe will be help_ful to the Bouse a.nd to those who are interested in the country, in coming to grips wi~~ this question.

I, indee~probably could have written ~"lis resolution r.yself and I L~ink in locking back over some things that I wrote back around 1971 or 1972,! did say at that time that one of the problems that I encountered in going through t~e educational material in t..~is Province was that I could find Veri little in it that was diiferen!.. frctl' what might be taught in a Prairie school or one in the ?<rovince of Ontario let alone in the older Atlantic Pro·,inces with which,,perhaps,., there ""-ight be a greater relevancy ~~an with some of the other provinces to which I have referred.

And,so.~"lerefore,I think it is a fa~ and a most regretable fact, that for whatever reason-ever the years,and I suspect :!.n

part it was eccnomic,we made a number of decisions wit..l-t regard to 2661

~1ovember 14,1979 Tape No. 1062 AH-3 !-!R. JAMIESON: schoolbooks and the likP,,which really did not place sufficient emphasis an the Newfoundland aspects of our histo~J,let alone of cur culture, let alone of what I ~ight describe as our identity. That I believe was due, I repeat, to the fact that ~~ere was a· certain economic consideration. At least whenever ! , many years ago, began to ask these ki.:1ds of questions;,People would come back and say that it was extremely difficult to craft a set of schoolboa~s, if that is the appropriate term, that wa~ going to be for use exclusively in Newfoundland and at the same time prevent the cost of such special 2662

November 14, 1979 Tape 1063 PK - l :1.r. .Ja.-nieson: productions goL~g to astronomical heights. I no longer believe,if ! ever did believe, that that is the case. think that we have a very good example in Breakwater Books, for example, of a Newfoundland company which has 1 I say, done a tremendous job, and which deserves a great_ deal of commendation for the mann~ in which it has succeeded aver a ccmpartively short Period of time, in bringing irito focus a wide-range of subjects which fit the basic criteria of this resolution.

And I understand 1 incidentially 1 that the company concerned, 3rea~water, is seeking some form of assistance or backing in order to maintain and to expand the activities in which it is presently engaged. And ! was interested, although I did not myself see or hear the programme, I was advised that one of the difficulties seems to be at the moment for a large number of reputable and competent Newfoundland authors and Newfaundland·writers,that Breakwater is not really in a position to give them the kind of solid support that they deserve.

I repeat, therefore, my plea to the government and my hope, that some method will be found, having heard earlier a number of declarations that have been made by members opposite, members of the cabinet, that they wish to encourage ~ewfoundland creativity, Newfoundland culture, I repeat my plea to them to look sympathetically and to do more than look, but to act sYPathetically ·,;ith regard to this particular company, and tho~e Newfoundlanders associated with it.

And so having made the~e comments, the only other ones that I want to make =elate to the necessity, it se~~s to me, for us to maintain a reasonable balance in this Province You knew, it is a phenomenon of Canadian history~ If you go back to the very earliest beginnings of the earliest provinces you discover that there is a kind of cyclical force that seems to be in ?lay in Canada and seems to be an intrinsic part of the developmP.nt of this country! and that cyclical process to which I have referred really boils down to going through a period during which national asperations, national interests, national concerns all tend to dominate.

And,therefore,whether the student be in Newfcundland,let us say, or in Quebec, or in British ~olumbia, something 2663

November 14, 1979 Tape 1063 ?K - 2 Mr. Ja1nieson: like the story of ~he Canadian Pacific Railway or some other great National feat becomes the centrepiece for a period of time, and I use that only in the symbolic sense, because there are a wide variety of other issues which in the same process tend to .be brought into and caught up in this,what I might describe as, interest in Canadian or National culture, National heritage.

And then if the cycle is followed through, and perhaps Heste.rn Canada is the best exa:nple that I can think of of this particular phenomenon, you see a swing back of the pendul~~ to the point where, in fact,what happens is that people become almost totally then preoccupied with either their region or their province or indeed in some cases 1 their particular city or area within a province. Now I emphasis this because it is one of the things through which I see Newfoundland going at the present time.

I= you think about the history of this Province over the past thirty years or so, it is I suppose unique in the sense that we started with virtually half of our population reluctantly accepting Canadian citizenship, I happen to be among those ~ho was in that particular category. And so, therefore, we had within this Province at that t~~ a peculiar situation in that in terms of textbooks, in terms of the school curriculum, all of it prior to l949 1 had been to some degree or other oriented toward t-tewfcundl~nd. There was a rather large Newfoundland component in at least some of What was being taught.

I mar say by the way, in looking back over it tr~t - l was about to acid that ~e United ~ingdcrn, if there was a =oreign element in it, was more in emphasis than was Canada. The other point~of course, about some of those earlier textbooks and earlier reference books ·..ras their ghastly inaccuracy in some respects with regard to the history of this Province which has led to what are unfortunately endur_ing misrepresentations, enduring falsehoods which I find being ~epeated to this very day.

But the cyclical references that I made a moment ago were special in the case of Newfoundland in that we had a particular job to do Z664

November 14, 1979 Tape No. 1064 t."M - 1 MR. JAMIESON: at the beginning of the Confederation period in terms of giving ~o that generation of Newfoundland school children, those within our ~miversity and the like, and in our high schools and in our-lower grade schools, some new and wider exposure to what I would describe as national traditions, natiorial culture, national heritage. Incidentally, I find no fault with that.

It seems to me that one of the quite remarkable th:.ngs about Newfoundland today is that here we are a mere thirty years 1 roughly 1 past Confederation and yet one finds very little of the kind of animosity, the kind of antagonisms which were so prevalent and so bitter at that particular time.

Consequently, I think that idea of having a strong emphasis on teaching young Newfoundlanders about their role in Canada was very much worthwhile and I doubt very much if thel:e is anyone • except an absolute die.:: hard, who, for instance.; is not entirely pleased and happy these days to see a group of raung Newfoundlanders rising and singing "Oh Canada" and sometimes,by the way, singing it in quite acceptable bilingual fashion. And this is an excellent thing.

In the process 1 however,of this pendulum swing to which I referred 11 We also, I suggest, have over t:.,_e last number of years lost sight of the necessity to iceep these two things in balance. I~ other words,there has been and I believe this is the premise on which the hon. member for St. John 1 s North (Mr. J.

Carter) put forward his motion, t:.~ere has be~n a tendency to, if not down-play but certainly not to emphasize sufficiently t:.~ose things about us as Newfoundlanders which are dis~inctive, which are unique and which give us a character which, I suggest, is quite distinc~ive in-relation to the rest of the country. .:Wd so; ther~fore, I believe that a major effort should be made. It is very difficult, by the wa¥1, to know how t:hat effort: is going to be focused.

I mentioned at the outset that educational au~~orities,! ~ qui~e cer~ain 1 are doi~g what L"le resolution says reviewing L~e ~terials, and I rarely meet wi~h any group of teachers t .. ~t: I do not hear this kind of w"ling being discussed in one 'Nay or ~'rJ.e ather. But : say it is dii:icult because in this ctclical :ashior. to which ! have made reference, I have what ::~ight. be described as a dorrnant concern at 2665

November 14, 1979 Tape No. 1064 ~i'M - 2 MH.. JAMIESON: the moment.

It is ,nothing particular, it is nothing that I am lying awake nights about, but ! think we ~ust keep a balance also to ensure that we do not develop a kind of pro,:tlewfoundlandism,if you want to use that akward Phrase, that turns into an anti-Canadianism. !n other words,! think it important now ~at with this very encouraging new cultural development that we are seeing and ! commend the Premier, I commend the government for everf~~ing that it is doing in ~is artistic field, I do say to them 1 however 1 wi~out any rancor or without any necessity to be argumentative, that there is a thin line and I have seen it in other places, and I am sure ~e han. members opposite have 3een it in other places, where you, instead of maintaining the appropriate balance between having pride ±n one's self ~~d in one's own area and pride in the country as a whole: you slip over t:he side and you have a kind of what ! might describe as insipient separatism.

I hope that that is not going to happen in Newfoundland.

I most sincerely believe that it is possible !:or the kind of objectives set out in ~is resolution to be followed without that occurring but I warn, if that is not too strang a word, or caution some~ people whom I ~now, not in t:his House necessarily, ind~ed perhaps I ought to exclude the members of this House because I have not taL~ed to them about it, but some whom I have talked with around the Province, respected people, people with a great concern, a great love for Newfoundland, who I sometimes have the feeling are almost anxious to restor~ the status quo of thirty years ago in the cultural and ~~e heritage sensei to say., in fact: 1that anything that cones from elsewhere is really not acceptable, and ~~at is the extreme that I am cautioning t..~at 'He ought to try 'CO avoid, Cspecially \oJhen1 fo"r instance, these of us who follow these ~~t:ters must be extremely pleased ~o see pe~forming ;roups =rem Newfoundland appearing and getting excellent reviews in cit:~es and towns all across Canada.

And I am not altogether certain sometimes tha'C. t: .. he kind of image t.hat all ::>f 'Chis mar::erial is prcjec'C.ing is tc- cur advantage !:mt at: t:he same t:i!:'.e_ ,the :::rut:-..'1 of the mat:ter is t..'1at ·we are now ge-::~ing an opportunity to -expand ::he awareness o£ Z666

November 14, 1979 Tape No. 1065 SD - 1 MR. D. JAMIESON: Newfoundland culture beyond our own borders and, therefore, I think it would be highly detrimental, highly counterproductive if we were to get into a situation in which we became so concerned with Newfoundland matters that we ·said that we, in a sense, wanted to i.'lhibit the inflow, if you like, of culture or heritage or information or history or whichever name you wish to apply to it1from other parts of the country. This, I .. repeat, is the central theme of what I wanted to say.

I have had a rare opportunity, as many members in this House have had, of travelling ~~e country from coast to coast and I have discovered that there is for newfoundland, generally speaking, a considerable degree of affection and support. Therefore, I would not want to see us in any sense of the word, become negative with regard to Canada.

But let me conclude by saying, of course, and I can say this with a considerable degree, 1 think, of personal sacisfaction,~~at long before it became the vogue to do the kinds of ~~ings which are taken tor granted today, scce hon. members will recall that I had the pleasure of producing, perhaps some of the first material ~'lat was actually turned out - I am thinking of the television series that we produced with regard to the a:olding ground. I ~'link I was the one who did that in :he late Ted Russell's play.

I can sympa~~i:e from the bot~m of my heart with the creative people of chis Province in how difficult it is, given ~~e relatively small population and so on, to get quality production, co get ~'le sorts of t.ltings that we all, I am sure, want to support and want to back. So, what I am saying here today is certainly not..'ling new, that is my bona fides, I am merely stating t..'lem so-that han. ~embers will appreciate that I want as much as anyone to ensure that the rich history of this Province is made familiar to all of our young people.

I ~~ink it is going to becot:le extremely and increasingly difficult to do so. Incidently and parenc.1,c::ically, I do not believe t.~e school curriculum is going to solve t:...'le question t.otally or even in large part. I fear thilt there are influences well !:::eyonci t..'le school and I am speaking of t.he :na::.::; pedia, I a:n s;::eaking :)f a whole range of c:.:.ltural, almost 2667

November 14, 1979 Tape ~,fa. 1065 SD - 2 l1R. D. JMUESot1 : a flood-tide of alien culture, which is not only i~meshing us in this Province but immeshing,in many respects, the people of Canada as well. But, nevertheless, if something can be done along this line, I would certainly welcome it am:i I emphasize once again my commendation co those groups who, l.lllder very trying circumstances, are seeking to get such thir.gs as a pl.:blishing L'1dustry, a recorciing industry, things of this kind going in the Province and I want to re-emphasize that this motion has our full support. SCME HON. HE1BEP...S : MR.

SPEAKER: (M.r. Baird) SOME HON. MEMBERS: PREMIER PECKFORD; Hear, hear. The han. the Premier. Hear, hear. .Mr. Speaker, I just want to say a few words on this resolution before- I think. today is the final day for this resolution under t.."le new rules of the House whereby we try tc more expeditiously manage our affairs here- co say a few words and to say, sort. of off the top, that I appreciate ~~e concerns that the Leader of the Opposition has just made. I do not know if they are so much concerns as caution~! remarks as it relates to going in one direction to the exclusion of others.

And perhaps we could have, or the m~~er for St • .;ahn's :lort."l (Mr. J. carter) could have in his r':!salution,or in his

preamble mentioned,perhaps,more of the Canadian orientation rather than t.~e ~ewfoundland one. But the fact that the hon. :nember did not, poi:r:::s up the need and the way a lot of :-Jewfoundlanders perceive where we have, ~art of gone wrong in the past and 1 therefore 1 in order :::o really redress and get the pendulum over, you have to just talk about :-1ewfouncilanci until you get it over to a certain point. and t..'len you can enlarge it again into t.'le Canadian and moral context. I guess, :1r.

Speakt::r 1 t..'l.e t'h.ing on t."lis resolution which comes mostly to :nind ~to me is not so :nuch «hether in £act 1 it is through t.~e educational system,which it has co be 1 and which I support whole-heartedly and additional impetus must be given to t.'lac 1 2668

November 14, 1g,79 Tape ~:o. 1066 DH - 1 P?E!UER P£C!:FOP.D: and I guess the educational area is one structured, formalized area in which you can do it, is to try in the next number of years to change ~Iewfoundlanders' attitudes about t.i.emselves and how they_ preceive their_ Province,how they preceive themselves as a PeoPle on the East Coast of c~~ada, as part of Canada and yet havL~g certain particular econow~c possibilities, certain particular social possibilities and cultural possibilities 1 and it is this, Hr.

Speaker, that ! would like to adCress and that. this kind of thrust that must come through a resolution like ~"lis and through additional initiatives by the Ce?art~cnt of Educaticn over the next number of months and years that ~~at can hopefully change ~!ewfoundlanders' attitudes about ~~emselves. It was not, ~x. Speaker, ~~usual r::uring r.lY days growing up t..'"tat for _some strange reason we were supposed to :eel and a lot of '1.71- friends in Grade IV and v, !

C.o not thin.lt I '<!as a part of ~~em ver; often ~~at felt like this rut a lot of peo?le ~id, a lot of students did and I guess still do 1 !eel not only inferior to sorr,cboCy else ~ecause the ct...~ar ?Crson happened to co.r_e f=o!'1 t=-.e :--air.la.-,d sor_e•,.;here l::ut ir.ferior within ~TeHfocru:lland context.

It was not. unusual in my days in elementary school that- a lot of Pays and girls who were sons and daughters of fishert:1en did not feel that they were of be station, for ;.:a..~t of a better ~~rd, as sons and daughter and beys and girls ~he had fathers and ~t~ers who l::elonged to scrr.e other so-called station, t..t1at ~~at "-'as ::.1-.e botton of the barre1Jbeing t..'te son or daughter of a fisherr".en.

Now, any of us who represent rural ridings- I suppose, one good way to turn that around is to have al7<0re vibrant fishing industry and that we have and now, if a..~ything,it is switching totally around and I -:..-culd suspect that t..lo:e sen:. ard daugheers, I l:or:e,of fis>.e.:::-r:'.en today in Wesleyville or Seldcm or where'<-cr 1 or Creque or in ~:ortheast Cr':!USe 1 if any·-thir:.g are feeling superior to the sons ane daughtC.rs of other :;:;eople in tbe ccrr.rr.unity and that is goad". That is the EJOSitive kind ':lf J.:ay we have to qo. But if He a~.,. going to, '"r.

S:;:eaker, and one of the t.hi:~gs ,,·here we !u·ve really last out over ~he last :n:mber of dccaC.es is that VB'::'f often to lear:-. a.tou-:: <:!ccnomic aeogrJ.phy ?rir:ciples.or to iearn at:out histOt"'f and SOIT.e o£. t.'he :;:rir.cipl<!s t:,at s:-tculd at:r:ly t.c ':.!"le study of history or ~he sociology or vthate·mr 1 we always l:ad :.:o '..!Se sc:;-_c Z669

November 14, 1979 Tape No. 1066 DW - 2 PFEHIER PECYJ'O?.D: ather country as the example; that, for example, you would take England_or for example yont.~o~ould even- and,I it is still in the schools in Grade IV and perhaps it should be, I do not know, is to learn about certain principles you had to·go to Africa somewhere, to Bungas, to the Congo or wherever.

Uow we must also have world geography and geography about o~~er places and ather clit:'lates and other ve~tations and all t..~e rest of it,. but it seems to me there is a lot of t..~ose principles ~~at could apply, obviously ~nd normally to any land wass or any people and ther2fore it should have been applied to our own circumstance 1perhaps 1 first.

So we do need in this Province right now a ~ajar thrust on studying geography in one or two grades which would take as its~laboratory our own Province and study it. 3ut ·,;hen one thinks about t..~e schools and the knowledge of one's own area-you kr.ow, you only have to look at the Lnited States and they have gone too ~ch perhap5 the ot~er •.vay 1 you lr.now 1w:ten it comes Cown to flags and r::aps and all of the rest of it, and every mornir_g in school they have got ':o almost salute the flag or whatever and eve~j.school, ! suppose, has a flag.

Hopefully, some tL~e next Spring or ~urnmer we, teo, will have our own distinctive flag not that we ~ave anything against other places or •..~hatever but ! bir.k it is time for us as a people and as a Province to do like other provinces have done a long time ago and get a distinctive flag and t~e ~aps and so on of our Province.

I can rem~~er - I was talk~ng this this morning, because it was opportune that it was only this morning ~~at the Department of Education were in the process ':lf going '::..'1-ro!J:gh our five year plan review and presented some of t~eir ideas for five years in ~~e educational field 1 and one of the areas t..l1.at, of course, a lot of discussion arose on t,•as this -;..·hole quest:ion of putting ::~ore into the schools ·,;hich ~ad a :-lewfoundlanC slant to it and it openeC. up tl1.e whole question asain as to ~haw v:e can best de t!':is. .:\nd !

C::U":!SS <::hat is one of ':..~e ?roblems we have sot to really adr:lr~ss, is t.h.:1t after accepting the ::crinc~:_1le t:hat aCditional in:or.-;ati.on in geog:::aphy, his::or7 or •,;hate·:er :us to be put into the schools re;;resenting :Jc•,>~foundlanC. 1 you r.ave to also C!l"'.SUre 't.!:at '::.'"-:e ~aterial >;':-tat Coes go t.::erc is educJ.::.icr:all·: so~C ar.C: it is cnl::• Z670

November 14, 1979 Tape Uo. 1067 NM - 1 PRE.lli!ER PEC:cFORD: done after it has passed those kinds of tests.

But in the United States 1 as I say-! can remember interviewing students in grade ten 1 when I wac teaching school,and asking them had they ever heard tall of Labrador City 1 Wabush and most of the students we did an interview period ih high school 1 just to get some level of information on how well ~~ey knew their own p:rovince 1 and some of the better known places in our Province. ~\nd I can remember~ I think it was sixty or seventy per cent of the students in grade ten in that school, in that year, did not know the significance of Labrador City, Wabush.

All of them had heard the name but they did not ~~ow what it was about. ,There was some activity going on there but they did not even know, for example 1what activity ~as going on down there. And you would be surprised the number of students around new, and the geography of the Province, just ~~e bays. It would be a nice exercise, Mr. Speaker, if we could get a huge map of Newfoundland and Labrador and close the doors of the House, make sure that che galleries were emptied, and each member of this han.

House was asked to go and put the right name on all ':he bays in Hewfou.'1dland, the big bays and some of the smaller bays. :-tR. STIRLING: (Inaudible) w,e Oasis of forming the government? P~~IER PECKFORD: Well 1 I do not ~new what the basis would be then. Perhaps we would all fail and so therefore a new party would have to arise which had some knowledge of Newfoundland before it could qualify and I would hazard a guess that there would be a l::n: of red faces around if they tried to make sure they filled in every gap accurately.

So,! ~,ink 1 even ~~ough I agree in theory,i: you '4ill,wit:.h ~-lh.::tt the Leader of the Opposition says, I ~'link 'He have a long way to go before we even encroach upcn that dangerous kind of thing ~,at he talked about,t~at we beco~e more JUSt: pro-Newfoundland and =orget about Canada and all the rest of it. And it goes Ear Canada as well·ln our schools, both in literac~re Eor a long while 1 chat I know best 1 very lit:tle Canadian and 1 of. course 1 ;:..1-J.e reason always given 2671

November 14, 1979 Tape No. 1067 NH - 2 P~~IER ?ECKFORD! by the experts in the field,·.,rhich I would take issue with on this, is that Canadians have not written anything worthwhile to study about, that they really have not passed the test. The Canadian writers and playwrights and novelists and poets and all 1 have not really passed the test, that unless you have a massive revolution of same sort, unless you have that kind of thing you really do not pass the test. You have not had the proper soil.

You have to go through an awful lot of traumatic experiences as a people and as a society before you can develop any epic poet or anybody of that nature and I think that is not true, that is crazy and I think there has been, and I guess the whole community, educational community' or whatever, across Canada has got a lot of qUestions to answer on that score.

It was not until ! was in university that I really was confronted with anything except a couple of short stories and some book down in grade eight or nine, that I was confronted with literature canadie~~e rather than just, Wordsworth amd Shakespear and Milton, which was all good and which on any level 1 I suppose, from zero to ten would come out nine or ten on the quality list. ~ut there is a whole lot of o~her material, not only for the sake of its literary value but also £or t~e sake of its knowledge of the country, 'ffhich is very valuable, and we could have a little bit of a saw-off there and could have had a lot more Canadian content in our schools so L~at therefore, I think, when we talk about Newfoundland, we can talk about it in the context of Canada as well. ! think the point has to be made1 Mr.

Speaker, that we, as a people and why X am as one individual, so sold on the idea of an Arts Council, and so sold en t...'"te idea of ~~ew- foundlandia, so-called , is because in my brief experience upon this part of the ear~~ I have ccme to realize :.:1ac we have lost an aw- ful let i!l e.nergy, and an awf'Jl lot: in an attitude that: has prevail­ ed among a lot o£ Newfoundlanders-,, that .:or some strange reason somebody has go:: !:C come f=orn somewhere else :1nd have a bit. c.f a st::-ange accent :Oefora '48 ',V"ill do business 'dit.h hi:n or beEore we consider them to be any geed. 2672

Novembee 14, 1979 Tape No. 1067 RAJ PRE.'1IER ?ECKFOP.D: Very often you hear New- foundlanders say over and over again, you are a stranger in your own land, ~,at you are no good because you only come from that place, and it takes a while for Newfoundlanders to get used to some other New­ foundlander doing a bit better th~n them and still being recognized as not being a crook or somewhat less than acceptable in the community. As soon as you start to rise above norm, everjbody gets suspicious, and we ~ave got to get away from that somehow or another and that you do not have to come from outside, Surely, we can all. learn from our Z673

November 14, 1979 Tape lOGS EC - l P RE.'UER PECK.FORD: economic history 1 which would not be a bad study by high school students,- if you want to go back to 1892 and take the railway and come on up through and take the major economic thrusts that have been made and to see how m.iny of them have been made by NewfoWldlanders. And it still is somewhat prevalent. We can some day perhaps get into a big discussion on that - Why are there not :oore NewfoWldlanders investing in the fishil,l'J industry today?

Why do we not have quite a few entrepreneurs who have quite a few dollars in their pockets that they are spending in Florida and Central Canada, why do we not have more of them risking their dollars in Newfoundland industry? They 'made their money and their bundles off Newfoundlanders for the most part, and NewfoWl.dland resources, and now they are investing- it -somewhere else. so, thereforei it gets that c...-unch about how much commitment we have to our own society.

WhateVer brewed that kind of attitude, we have to get away from it and Newfoundlanders now have to get a lot more entrepreneurial and risk orientated towards their own dollars. I think perhaps Premier Bennett has done a great favour on that in the way he has approached some of the economic development now in British Columbia with sel.ling shares just to British Columbians and so on and getting them to have a stake in some economic development opportunity there so that they can feel a part of it. aut it is all a matter of attitude, it is a matter of evolution.

I think we can help it along now as Newfoundlanders if we rationally and in an organizational fashion - you just do net throw a whole bunch. of stuff at the curriculum, I :nean, that is not going to do you any good. You will lose on t.lotat, b&cause a lot of misinformation and slants will come in there which are not supposed to be a part of it.

Good solid Newfoundland information, economic geography, textbook or books, history, like I say, sociology,~ a lot of literature can go into the curriculum almost imnediately, I have here, just passed to me - the Breakwater just put out "rhirty-one Newfoundland Poe'ts _ a lot of the poets in this book are people that I know fairly well, went to university wi~~. as a matter of fact - which has great quality to it and could go Z674

November 14, 1979 Tape 1068 EC - 2 PREMIER PECKFORD: as an adjunct or one of the poetry bocks to be studied by Grade K or Grade£ students. And the other problem we have is that we really have to start in the school system so that we get a new group coming out, because there are a lot of teachers around and people in aut:ru?r~ty~ l.n the school boards in this Province who know no more about the literature of Newfoundland than I know about the literature of Afghanistan- and I know nothl.ng about the literature of Afghanistan - they know nothing about it.

And, you know, there ~s still a tiny. bit of feeling around ~~at, 'Well, ! went to university with him too and perhaps he did a little bit better in literature than I did and ! only got a. few poems out, so he is no good - he is a Newfoundlander. ' It might bt! even by our own people, by our own teachers now. And there needs to be a lot of work. Not only Newfoundland poets but canadian poets too - but there is a lot of that going on.

There are a lot of people who are supposedly educaeed people, informed people because they went to uni.versiey and got a B.A. - B.'i. after their names or somet.."ling, 'that they are supposed to know it all now, but they still have a lot of those same hang-ups that we are t--ying now to dismiss and eradicate through, hopefully, rational approaches eo it, and o~e of the ways is through the educational system.

There· is a lot: of work to be done here, and I t."link the resolution is an excell!!mt one, but there are also a lot of problems, and we must start today sort of thing and I think we will be getting Newfoundlanders t,o put togeth.er Newfoundland textbooks on an educationally sound basi$, and start introducing them to the school syseem and expand it into Canadian.

Not have - every geography course then from Grade IV ~ Grade XII will not be a geography of Newfoundland, but at least have one or· two of them in there, and then Canadian and so on, and t.'len the World, But We" need a lot mre knowledge, but attitudinal things are going to take a while to change, a.-;.d the university, and people_ in the education community now have a lot to learn. as well as the parents and some of the students who are coming out of ~~ere, because an awful lot of 2675

November 14, 1979 Tape 1068 MB - 3 PREMIER PEC!C.FORO: foolishness going on on that score in a lot of areas, in my opinion. The other thing is you see, unless you do it now in the educational system so that you get students coming ciut of the educational system with none of these preconcei.ved notions about who is good and who is bad in literature or whatever, and ~~en going to the university and coming out as teachers, then you will have teachers who are far more attuned to bringing in ot.her ~'lings into the classroom.

Because you can legislate, as we all know, yourself to death, and you can have a Department of Education which pushes as hard as they want on trying to put in a system but if you do not have a sympathetic principal, and bay that is where the power is, and a sympathetic teacher, you can have all the curriculum pouring out of the Confederation Building or out of wherever it comes from and going into the schools and being stocked away 2676

November 14, 1979 Tape 1069 PK- 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: in some old storeroom and nobody sees about it, you know. And i ~ is happening now. took at the radio broadcasts that come on, how- many classrOOll\S in Newfoundland actually turn on their radio any more? The technological age and everything if going crazy. I would like to see the ratings - MR. FDBERI'S: The audio-visual system here would have to be seen to be disbelieved. PREMIER PECKFORD: I would like to gee the ratings in the classrooms of Newfoundland..

Say it is a Grad.e 'IV thing that Comes on at 2:15 in the afternoon, a beautiful t..~ing on current events - AN HON. MEMBER: 2:30 PREMIER PECKFORD: 2::30 - and it comes on and it might be about something that went on in this House last week, I have heard. it - AN HON. MEMBER: I hope not. PREMIER PECKFORO: Well, let us hope so, let us hope, you know, let us hope so.

It is for all Grad.e IV, say, or Grade III to Grade VI, and then monitor every classroom t.~at has Grade III, IV, and V or VI students in there,_ and see how many classrooms ..,ere turned on to SOIIIti!t.hing outside the four walls of that silly old classroom, which is supposed to be the panacea to all the Province for Grade III 1 IV, V, and VI or whatever. Or the film strips that are available, I know, that are available that are never used. And how sene people in the community look upon that as, 'oh, that is a scandalous, they are supposed t:o be in the classroom'.

You cannot bring them 't.o a theatre and shO\ol' t:..."lem a film of Newfoundland or 3omething else because that is not part of what. is down there in that book, and make sure you get out of the classroom as soon as the bell. goes too, long before the students get out because you cannot. stay there after that - AN· BON, MEMBER: (Inaudi.ble) • PREMIER PECKFORD: your time is up. AN HON, MEMBER: The Green Bay Integrated School Board? PREMIER PECKFORD: I am speaking on a number of places around the Province.

But I know if you do not. get a change there, and tne only way you can change it right in t.'1.er~ is by t..'le educa::.ional system educating 2677

November 14, 1979 Tape 1069 ?K - 2 Premier Peckford: people now who will be teachers later, who will have a different attitude than the ones have now that I am accusing, and that is the way you have to do it. And also by all of us, as opinion leaders here in this House now, as we speak and_are seen and are heard around the Province, for us to take a wholesome attitude in talking about the fishery, or talking about the forestry, or even ~ J ~- ta.lki.ng about the few spuds that we can grow, wherever we can grow them to speak positively about it and put a positive aspect on it.

We do not have- you know, we are not the richest thing in the world as it relates . \ to our debt retirement ratio with the revenues coming in or whatev~r, neither is Canada for that matter right now1 it is up around 16 or 17 per cent like ourselves. A..~ HON. ~HEER: {Inaudible) statement PREMIER PECKFORD: But still there is a great deal of - if you look at it per capita now, I mean,that is what we have got to push is it not? I mean look at it per capita now and leak at our resources ·we should be one of the wealthiest and could !:;e if we manage it properly.

We have got a lot of energy around here new, we have got a lot of creativity '"'e have got a lot of good. resources around here and ·,.e have got to make it all work. And that is the approach we have to take to our future and nat lamenting about this or that or something else we have to be positive. It is going to be hard work~ but who is afraid Of hard workf t!o Newfoundlander_ is,We '"'ere drove out of here 300 or 400 hundred- years ago and we' Persisted until they had to let us stay here and now we are going to make it work.

That is the positive attitude that we have to take.In a general way within tr~t there are going to be certain sectors and things that we are going to all debate over but let us not debate aver the future of oursel•.res as a people and as a piece of land mass, let us dePate over how we ~re going to get there and 1 therefore,you want to be over here and I do not want to be over there becomes a secondary issue to the fact that we are ~11 really going in the sa."lte direction;it is whether '"'e take the train or the boat: to get ~here that might be the great problem.3ut sometimes I think a lot of people get the view that we are really not even going,we have not got -'.:he same aL"Tts and objectives at all. :t think we have really .::ailed there Z678

November 14, 1979 Tape No. 1069 DW - 3 P~~IER PECKFORD: but we have got to change that. So that is really all I •.;ant to say on the resolution. I am glad the resolution has had an opportunity to be debated by a lot of members here in the House. It is a sound one, we have got to try to make it work in our own small ways1 wherever we happen to be, to get a different kind of attitude.

One way that that can be done is through the school system and 1 of course 1 generally in the community sc that parents, also the home, the great institution che horne becomes a much more positive influence in the lives of our people so that we have that kind of thing there in the future. A lot to be done, Mr. Speaker, but through resolutions like this and through ~ new positive attitude which can translate throuqh ~ system to bring about a new generation of Newfoundlanders, we can do it. SOME_HQN. ~~ERS Hear, hear! A point of order, ~. Speaker. HR.

SPEAKER (SIM."!S} : A poL~t of order, the han. the teader of the Opposition. 2679

Nove~Xer 14,1979 Tape no. 1070 AH-1 MR. JAMIESON: Mr. Speaker, I wonder if by leave if I could ask the Premier a question, if he \•;Ould be willing to accept a question. MR. SPEAKER: By leave. MR. J~J1IESON: Entirely non-controversial. I am curious as to whether or not in the structure that the Premier has outlined,and basically no one can argue with it, if he has thought about how one pucs the economic objectives and what I would call the cultural or heritage objectives together in order to insure tha~ ~~ey do not in some way or other conflict with one another?

I have in mind the idea of a level of industrial development whic~ fits a particular kind of society, a particular kind of Newfoundland as opposed to, for instance, emphasizing fisheries over this or whatever the case mighc be, I hope I am making my question clear.In o~~er words, is the planning that ~~e Premier envisages one ~,at takes the economic impact on the general social structure into account. MR. SPEAKER: PP~MIER PECXFORD: The hen. the Premier. Yes, I think so.

And to be really specific and to bring that right dcwnr.that we are going to have to do, and I ~~ink we will start Doing it next year1 we talked about ~~is this morning, ·.thel Minister of Education (MsVerge) perhaps can respond to it better than I right now, our plan is to, for example, on ~~e historical and geographical side, is to provide the money to engage Newfcundlanders to prepare different areas of work, economic geography - AN HON. ME}mEP: PREMIER ?ECKFORD: textbooks, for- AN HON. MEMBER: P?FM!EP PECXYOR: School worki' Well, net s~~col work. For (Inaudible) Yes, right. What would ~~en be 2680

November 14,1979 Tape ~.:o. 1070 PREMIER PECKFOPD: under the auspices of the Department of Education. They would be charged ~ith, through consulting or ~hatever,to work out and the Department of Education would give the parameters for an economic geography thing which would take into account all of the things ~~at you mentioned anC how a certain economic acti vi 't:-J would impact culturally upon the Province and .'io on.

That will have to be worked out and we will have to see then, somebody has to make the final decision 1 I think it should be the Department of Education 1 to determine ~hether ~~rough different corm~i ttees, curriculum committees whether this is .. acceptable to put into the schools. But it must be totally non-partisan, it must be one based upon nothing to Co with politics but different developments in areas and the impact it could have on the Province and so on. Yes, ! can see your point and you coulC isolate and just have a pure geography and a pure history. AN HON. ME.'"!BER: Life is not like that.

PPEMIER PECKFORD: But life is not like that and I we are hoping new, as part of our five year plan, to start bringing that into place in tb.e.next ntltt'ber of years, starting in the Spring of ~~is year,~i~~ a sum of money to start studies to produce books and material which will b~ acceptable in the high school for two grades or one graCe or three grades, on the economic geography of Newfoundland - and history. ~R. SPEAKER(Simros): of Belle Isle. MR. RCBE?l'S: The bon. the member for the Strait Hr.

Speaker, let :ne first of all say to my colll':!ague .:rom LaPoile (Hr. :teary) who indicated ~o me that he as '""ell hcped to speak, ~~at I will keep myself brief. It goes to twenty to SiA when, I think, ~~e member fnr St. John's North (Mr. J.

Carter) has the right, and there is certainly time fer bo~h of us to get in,so I hope each of us will speak for a few minutez because there ~s a great deal to be said on t~is motion and a great deal has been said and I do not propose or intend or Cesire to go over what has been said. !t is not necessarf and there are some new points or some aC.diticnal points that I wculd like to 1ay !:.efo:re Z68i

~lOVeJ!Iber 14, 1979 Tape No. 1070 DW - 3 MR. RCBERI'S: the House;. This motion, I think it is fair to say1 represents a hobbyhorse, I guess, for a n~ber of us in t.,e House, the gentleman for St. John's !lcrth (Mr. Carter), the Premier, the Leader of the Opposition, myself, my. friend from LaPoile (Mr.

Neary) and a great number of other metr.bers feel very strongly about this question and not as politicians, not even necessarily as 1 I think 1 the cant phrase, c-a-n-t, for the benefit of my friends in Hansard, the cant phrase 1 ,as opinion leaders but just as Newfoundlanders as people who are concerned with this culture, with this Province, people who remember George Santayana's immortal phrase that "Those who do not remember their history are condemned to repeat it!

And while there is a great deal in our history that should certainly be cherished and treasured, there is a great Ceal that should not be repeated. And I believe that we should remember our history 1 I believe that we should preserve what is good and that ·..,.e should go on anC build upon that. And in that sense I find myself in agreement with a great deal of what the Premier said and I find myself in agreement wi~~ a great deal of what my friend and colleague, the Leader of the O~position said when he spoke;as 2682

November 14, 1979 Tape No. 1071 so - 1 MR. E. ROBERTS : I find myself in agreemen~ wich a great deal of what has been said as well by the other members who have spoken in this debate. The motion itself is inoffensive, meaningless, wishy-washy, gives us no reason to vote for or agair~t it. It is an expression of an opinion, it is most of all an opportunity to debate or discuss the matter in t.,_e House. Acoord~ngly, I am prepared to congratulate the gentleman from St. John's !forth (Mr. J. carter}.

He and I have not often had cause to congratulate each ather, in fact, he earlier today produced his book of insults, I assume he is writing a second edition, I could refer him to Hansard, both things he has said are things t..~a t have been said about him and ! think he would agree that·they would form a portion, an entertaining and illustrative portion of a second edition of a book of insults. ~- Speaker, you know, I do not propose to go on ac a great length about the culture of our Province, I think it speaks for itself, I think. it speaks with a •Jibrant and a strong voice.

And I believe that is the point that should be ur~erlined right now that we are witnessing, that we are living through, we are ~aking

part in, we are benefiting from what amounts to d ~enaissanca in the culture of this Province or perhaps 1 if I have not~ lost track of my French grammer, what little of it I knew, and my friend the :1inister of Justice (Mr. Ottenheimer) can correct me.

I believe he is ~e only bilingual member of this House at present, at least, in French and English - there are some who speak other languages, some of ~,_em languages chat:. strangers do not know,- t:.nat we maybe even witnessing the birt.'1 of the Newfoundland culture in i~s artis-:ic e.xFressior.. >ie are not witnessing che birth of the Newioundland culture,, that goes back as lang as t.'lere have been peoplt! in :iewfound2and, it goes back a ~'1ousand years and more far the European people, it goes back several ~~ousand years :or t.'1e Inuit and several hundred years :or the !~dian people and let us not. forget, Sir, t..'1at ~'1ey are very :nucha part of our culture. ;,ly friend, t..'i.e :·tinister of Tcuris::t (.C1r.

C. Power) just: 2683

November 14, 1979 Tape No. 1071 SD - 2 MR. E. ROBERTS: nods. I am glad to see ~~at because too often ~~e emphasis is placed upon the European aspects of our culture and the Inuit who have been here for centuries or eons, for ages, for ~~ousands of years, and t:.h.e Indians who have not been here t..~at long. '!'he Indian people, in fact"', by and large,have come to this Province since the European people have come.

The !ndian people in Labrador, I believe, came up into Labrador because ~~~y were driven there by the Algonquin, they are Algonquin tribes, they were driven there ):;;y the Iroquois tribes coming up from southern Quebec, they were driven in a Northeastern direction into the area now inhabited by Indians and, of course, t..,e ~icmac people here on the Island, particularly on the South coast, the Micmac people came, I believe, in about the seventeenth century, l-ong after the white - that is an offensive, it is a meaningless outdated phrase .-the European peoples came to settle. We have had a culture ~~at long.

We have had a •.librant culture, we have had a forceful culture. What t,..'C have not had are the artistic expressions of that culture. But in the last few years we are !::eginnlng to see a very vital and a very enthusiastic and a very warm and •tib::ant culture. You know, I for one, think ~~at people such as - and in no particular order - but Javid Blackwood and I think Javid Blackwood's etchings capture a great part of the essence of the Nor~~east coast of ~~is Province.

And you can not look at some of his etchings in the Lost Party series witr~ut experiencing a great deal, a great part of what is a very, very significant feature of the cultural traditions of the Nor~~eastern coast of t.'lis Province or Christopher and ~1ary Pratt who 1 by any standards, are first-class artists or Jacob Kennedy" who I do not thi~~ is painting right now but ought to be, as he is a very fine painter. I can go on and on and on. The folk songs.

You kr~w, I do not know how :nany :netlbers of the House have heard ::he record of the ·,.,.e ;:ave a genuine folk song '=.raciit::.ion and not simply ~e Gerald S. Doyle :na::erial as valuable as that: is <'l.nci it is valuable, I mean, t.'-.e Gerald S. Joyl.e collac~ior.s are unique and well "Non:h preservir.g .::.nd 'Nell ,.cr~'l hcr.ouring because l1e Jid prescr·te th.em in a day when 2684

november 14, 1979 Tape No. 1071 so - 3 HR. E. ROBERTS: these things were not valued, but who has heard - how many of us have heard the songs that the auchans miners wrote during the great strike they had back, it. was three or four years ago. My friend from Windsor- Bu~~ans (Mr.- G.

Flight) is not here but there is a record produced of the songs of th.e steel workers which is a very important part of our culture and that is all that culture is or the new one ~~at the university 1 under ~~e direction of Donald Cook have put out? of folk songs of Newfoundland and some new folk songs,ones that are not too fa.1niliar.

And ~y friend, ~~e Leader of the Opposition talked aOOut:. the Hummers Troupe and Ccdco and I am not sure I can pronounce the WNOBS W-N~B-5 - the White Niggers of Bond Street a group which. has set·Toronto,in an artistic sense,very much on its ear. .\nd I think that it is high time that ~~at happened and it is a good thins that it is happening the way it is. I want, though, ~r. Speaker, that is welcomed and we should acknowledge it, ~~ should help it. The governmen~ has a ~ill before the -House r~w to incorporate an arts council.

They have a provision in the estimates which has been adopted by the House without a dissenting voice to fund the art:s council and that is ;oad, But r want to suggest that we s:lould go furt..'ler because I believe that in this Province we have not yet paid sufficient heed to cur cultural heritage.

We have net acknowledged it, we have not acted '.Jpon it as we ought to, I think that there are probably t......a concrete steps which the government can take that .,.'Ould. illustrate in a 'Jery dra;natic way !:heir car:unittment to the arts and their comwittment to allowing our own artistic cultures, our own e~pressions of our nature,of our being, of your hiscorj, of our n~~~s, of oUr future ~nd of oUr past. A couple of Thr~ne Speec~es age- I kn0\-.'1 .1r. Speaker, t:o be mentioned J.n the Throne speech is -:o be list:.ed anong t: .. he dead !:ecu.use :nest of what hu.s been :nentioned in Z685

Sovember 14, 1979 Tape No. 1072 OW - 2 MR. E. ROBERTS: Books such as that written by the mother of my friend from Naskaupi {Hr. Goudie), the book titled Women of Labrador. Marvelous books that ought to be written, that ought to be published an4 I believe financial assistance ought to come from the government. There has been a lot of talk about Breakwater Press.I think Breakwater Press deserves some support, they have had precious little from the government, precious little!

And I do not say that in any condemnatory sense but if the government are genuine, if the Premier and the Ministe~ of Education {Ms. verge) are genuine, as I believe they are, in wanting to encourage Newfoundland culture then let them put their cash where their mouth is, Sir, and let them support Breakwater. Hear, hear: SOME HON. MEMBERS: _l1R. E. ROBERTS: Breakwater has published more indigenous and worthwhile Newfoundland stuff and I may say, Mr. Speaker, it is stuff to use that word in its best and most accurate sens~ it is stuff that is good by any standard.

I do not think we should encourage Newfoundland material that second rate. I think we should encourage the Newfoundland material as it is first rate becaUse there is a great deal of it. And somebody like Breakwater Press ought to be encouraged and if they were to dissappear from_ this Province or if they were moved to Ontario I- think it would be a loss. I would like to see the government perhaps buy up some ~oaks. Where are the second volumes of Peter Cashin's memoirs?

I do not know but I understand that whil~ they might p;ovide !ertile ground for liable suits -I do not know who you \lo'OU~d sue, Major Cashin is gone to the great polling station in the sky- but, Mr. Speaker, that is a book that ought to be part of our heritage and there are many others. An operation like 2686

:-;ove!:'.ter 14, 1979 Tape :ro. 1072 DVl - 1 \!? .• S. !'OSERTS: ~~rene Speeches just dies the Cay it is written 1 but a couple of Throne Speeches ago there was included in th.e docu.'!lent an undertal:ing by the government and I think it was by t..~e :bores 1 aerninistration 1 I could not find it I only have tryis year's Throne Speec.l;. he::e on my table - a cornnitb:ent to provide ti1e funC:s for the writing of a book t.~at is sorely needed and that is, a histor1 of Newfour.dland and Labrador.

The last standard book that we have, of course, is Judge Prowse's book whic.~ was written eighty~four years ago the first edition and is a marvelously entertaining book but really I understand it contains as much fiction as fact and is. not regar~ed today by t.~e historiograpers as being an acceptable ~~rk by modern standards.

It is an acceptable work, it is a vital work, it is a very valuable work but it is not considered to be a history ·..rritten by r.eCe.rn techniques and usL1.g the •.rast amount of information that has come up. ;-.'ell,I would think and the governn'ent should carr/ through with t.'"lat- I understand that my friend and ey :or-:::er colleague, Cr.

Fred Fowe,now an ornament who adds distinction to the Senate of canada as he added di~tinction to this Chamber for many years, that 0r. ?red ?..owe is writing a histOr"f of ~lewfoundland and LabraCor is tb.e :nan to do it.Perhaps there ought to be more than one !'l.i:;tory written so we get a •.rariety points of vie'-1 just as t.'lere are several good histori£::s of Canada that have been written, Arthur Lowe;s, Donald Creighton's, J.M.F. Careless,Maurice Carelesses: book,three of them histories of caaada giving different viewpoints,different

interpretations.!£ you read all three of them perhaps you will get some feel for the history of which we became a part of some thir~y years ago. aut I would like to see the government carrv throuoh with ':hat plan. I ""'Ould l.iJ:e to see then :;'i:Jd be money, it ';{Ould !'lot te a great C.eal, to finance '"hat is needed !:.o give people an opportunity to ·..:rite because ·writing is an occupation that requires finuncial supp-ort. ;' ... "'lC I t.hir.k t..'1at i':. is 9roper t~at ':.~<:! state should SU?Fort !:his financiall}". T:tcre are Qt..,'i.er things ::..'1ut should be v.;ri-cten.

I know tte Grenfell ~iss ion arc trying to :":ind So!".ebody to w--rite a histor"J of Sir ;1ilfred Grenfell '""ho is surely one of the unique :igures in ':!1e E'is-cory of our ?rovincc.

November 14, 1979 Tape No. 1072 ow - 3 MR. E.ROBERTS: Breakwater ought to be given assistance not to line the pockets of the owners of Breakwater, that is illegitimate on their part but let them make that on the market. But nonetheless there ought to be financial support, not just words there has got to be money and there has got to be dollars. And also, Mr.

Speaker, and let me conclude on this because there are others who wish to speak, I would like to see the government in a very practical way make available money for school libraries~ One of the shames of this Province today is brought home to any member who goes into the library, and I" know the Minister of Health (Mr. House) who not -only grew up on the Northwest Coast but as Minister of Education and as a teacher for many years would have to agree with this, is that our libraries in our schools 1 particularly in the smaller, the more remote, the more rural schools are scandalously and indecently inadequate.

It may in part be the fault of school boards. I understand that school boards_sometimes take the library grants and use them 2688

November 14, 1979 Tape No. 107 3 SD - 1 MR. E, ROBERTS: for other purposes 1perhaps that is understandable it is not acceptable to 'me, but the grants are inadequate. 1et me suggest instead that instead of the government giving money to the school boards let us leave the present grants but let the government do what the Canada Council have been doing for many years and that is start a programme by which they purchase !:oaks.

The canada Council, every school in my district now has it so o~er members can now take advantage of it if they wish 1 the Canada Council has a programme under which they will make available to libraries in remote schools, in rural schools a collection of 200 Canadian books. And they- do it to encourage Canadian publishers but they also do it to provide canadian schools with canadian books, Canadian literature. And I would like to see the same sort of programme undertaken for Newfoundland books. That might, at the same time, he the answer to the problems of Breakwater and to the other people who are publishing.

Buy up their bocks and give them to the school libraries. 'de will puc some books in the libraries, we will also help our publishers. Mr. Speaker, the motion is one that Yle could all go on and talk about far hours. You knew, the history of Newfoundland, I could go an, I could quarrel with the Premier's interpertation as is reflected in the Thr?ne Speech. I think ~~e Premier has either nee read the Amurlee Repo~t and I do not think he has not read it, I think, in fact, he has read it. Whatever faults the Premier may have, he does his homework.

I understand caucus really meet at seven o'clock in the morning, I think that ~,at is splendid - I am glad I am not part of it. I think some of the gentlemen opposite must really shine at seven in the morning. :1y friend £rem St. John's ::ort:."l Ott. J. carter) who nas just interrupted me1 I have no doubt, Sir, shines like the blooming sun at seven~o'clock in t:.~e morr.ing. 1 know what he is like at chree o'clock in the afternoon, Sir, and ! can bl.lt imagine what he is like at seven in the morning. And I am sure that :ny friend 'tile learned gentle..11an frcm St.

John's East U!r. il. ;,1arsnalll, ~~e House ~eader for government, at seven o'clock in ~~e morning, Sir, 2689

November 14, 1979 Tape No. 1073 SD - 2 MR. E. ROBERTS: is worth the cash, worth every nickel he is paid and then some. But, ar. Speaker, you icnow, the Premier, while he may have read t.h.e Amurlee Report, in my view, has not understood it.. The ~,eery of our history propigated in the Speech from ~~e Throne is not a valid theory. It is not a matter we should debate, it is a matter that each of us can make up our minds on. aut those who think that Newfoundland went under far the reasons given in_ the Amurlee Report are misreading our history or just misunderstanding it.

I notice the gentleman from Mount Scio 1 the Minister of Mines and Energy (Mr. L. Barry) ,perks up. ! have no doubt. he would agree with me on that point, that the Amurlee Report. was the classic hatchet job. The classic hatchet job was done by ~,e Government of the Unit'ed Kingdom, I will not say with malice aforethought but! will say with every- ~,_ey were not surprised her :-tajesty's government in 1933 to get the Amurlee Report.

And r would say ~,ey were delighted to get it, it served their purpose admirably, it was a classic hatchet job, a classic job of how to twist and misinterpret'and distor~ how to take the facts ·and select traditiously only what was needed to preserve a theory of Newfoundland 1 s history or rather to impose upon ~~estate of the ~~en current life in Newfoundland, a ~~ate of affairs that the Government of the United Kingdom_ had decided was to be and ~,at a number of people had decided was ~~e ~ay to go.

It was a shameful episode in our histor] and if we ever put up a plasue' to Lord ~~urlee 1 we should put ~~e plaque up in the same way we ~uld put it up, say, to Benedict Arnold to take an American example. or to Guy Fawkes to take a British ex~~ple. But anyway, Mr.

Speaker, ~ne resolution is meaningless, the debate I hope has been meaningful.! look for~ard to voting on the ~otion and ~ look forWard even more eagerly to some action, to some evidence by the government ~hat we are going to see conc:ete action 1 t.hac. we are going to see sane of their fine words and til.eir fine thought:s translated into even finer deeds. SCHE HON. !-!E:1EER.S: Hear, hear: 2690

Nove..rnber 14, 1979 T:lpe No. 1073 DW - 3 :.rn.. SPEAKER: The han. member fer St. John's West. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! M..tt. H. BAR.ttETT; Thank you, l1r. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to speak in support of this resolution as presented by my colleague, the member for St. John's North (Mr. J. Carter). In doing so, ~x. Speaker, I would like to outline my own thoughts concerning this very important issue. It is indeed vital ~~t we all recognize that our children be fully aware of their cultural and historic heritage.

There is no better place to ensure that this is done than through the school system. In recent years there seems to have been a contin~cus erosion of direct access by students to_ the writings and publications of Newfoundland's own historians and,-authors on many cultural and folklore subjects. This resolution, ,'1r. Speaker, recognizes that this erosion has indeed taken place and is ongoing. I have had occasion to inquire into the materials presently available as curriculum for eleQentary schools. I find that in only two grades 1 namely 1 grades five and six does 2691.

November 14, 1979 Tape No. 1074 !.ffi - 1 MR. BARRETT: the curriculum involve direct application to Newfoundland. There are three books in use in Grade y_, one being Newfoundland and !.abracior,a l3rief History by Or. Leslie Harris, which is basically as the title implies, a very brief look at the historic past of this Province, and I might reflect also, that it is interesting to note that this book stops at Confederation even though probably the period since Confederation has probably had a more resounding effec~ on this Province than any other twenty-five year period in our long and ancient history.

Another book in this same grade used for reading ma~erial_is entitled Newfoundland's First People-The Maritime Archai'c Indians, by Florence Cowan and the thi..rd book for the same grade is entitled, '!:he Geography of Newfoundland by SUl!tD'lers and Summers. The s~udy supplement for Newfoundland that accompanies another of the reading textbooks entitled Hockey Cards and Hocscotch makes reference to just two Newfoundland articles, bot.lt very brief, one en~itled Shawnandit.~it The Last Of The Beothuck.s, by Alan Fra:er and an

article entitled The Man From Comfort Cove, a brief outline of the discovery of a skeleton by George Hodder, in 1688. I could find no other text or reference concerning this elementary school grade. In Grade VI the only reference book in which Newfoundland "is given any attention is the eextbook Canada This Land of Ours,. and in it I could only find four pages of this tex+-book devoted to Newfoundland on the singular subject,fishing. It is interesting to note that all but one of these books, as are all ot..~er text and reference books in use in our schools, published by companies from .outside Newfoundland.

It seems almost beyond reason why so little attention is being paid to the availability of tex'tbooks and resource material that exemplifies the history and culture of this Province. I would suggest, M:r. Speaker, that there are many books presently available that:. deserve widespread distribution throughout the schools, colleges, and universities of 2692

November 14, 1979 Tape No, 1074 MB - 2 M.R. BARRETT: this _Province that would eliminate this obvious void in the resource material available to our students.

I feel that it is time that we take immediate steps to introduce an enlightened policy that will legislate the adoption of many of these locally published hooks of quality which will give the Newfoundland students a great sense of eultural heritage. 'Ihe literat.ure of Newfoundland, the history of Newfoundland, t.'le geography of Newfoundland, and numerous other aspects of Newfoundland life are sadly absent from the offici~ studies at all levels of our educational system.

Where Newfoundland studies are found are in classrooms where we find our most imaginative and innovative. teachers, who on the.ir own initiative express their love for Newfoundland's cultural heritage and convey that love to their students by introducing their own programme to their students involving Newfoundland writers and artists.

There would appear t.o he ample evidence from every area of Newfoundland and- Labrador that there is a need for mre Newfoundland studies in the curriculum, and I feel that the impetus necessary for the use of NewfoWldland hooks and materials will only result as soon as official government sanction is given for the introduction of this material. We must recognize, Mr. Speaker, that this government cont.~ls the budget for education in this Province, and included in t.h.is responsibility is the allocation of funds for the purchase of textbooks.

I feel that it is 'imperative that we mve positively and quickly in the direction of insuring that Newfoundland is written and Newfoundland published t.ext.books and reference books are given widespread diStribution ~~roughout this entire Province. I might comment.r if I may, on another aspect of the subject, and ~~at is ~~e beneficial result. that such a programme .....-ould have on the writers, historians, the poets, and the publishers of this Province. We probably :nore Z693

November 14, 1979 Tape No. 1074 MB - 3 MR. BARRETT: than any other singular area in this country have a great abundance of talent in writers, and I thi.nk one of the be_s1: ways of recognizing this talent and allowing it the opportunitY of full expression is to encourage the use of this material in our schools.

Let me briefly illustrate to you some of the material that is presently publish~d, and 1n my opinion could be quite acceptable for the purposes I am illuding to: rhymes for children entitled Do\rln by Jim Lonq 1 s Stage, by Al Pittman- a book of rhymes and drawings, and a winner of the 1977 Canadian Library Association Award for the best illustzrated children 1 s book in canada1 Borrowed Black, by Alan Brian Ovede, a colourful' Ulustrated fantasy for children set in Labrador; a selection of Newfoundland writings entitled Baffles of WincLa.nd..

Tid.e, as edited by Clyde PJ::)Se; a Collection of 'thirty-one Newfoundland ~ edited by Adrian Fowler and Al Pittman, the one tJle 2694

Nove~ber 14, 1979 Tape No. 1075 IB-1 ~. BARRETT: Premier previously referred to, an anthology supporting the relationship between a community and the poetrJ which comes out of it; the publications of Ray G'uy, Dory Loads, a collection of newfoundland writings and art1 The Door of the Newfoundland-Labrador Wild; Ted Russell's Tales from Pigeon Inlet; Timely topics such as the Season of the Seal by Calvin Coish which is an indepth account of the seal hunt giviig the historical perspective versus the media circuits.

Fisheries Control, Ottawa or Newfoundland. a timely subject; a report on the Peoples' Conference. representing over 100 development community organizaticns in Newfoundland and Labrador. On and on it goes, all worthwhile publications available for Newfoundland about Newfoundland. These, Mr. speaker, are just a few of the sampling of books that are available. There are many others, a great many of them addressing themselves to all levels of readers that could very easily provide a basis of educational materials necessar; to make our children aware of this vital subject.

One of our local publishing houses has made it a matter of publi9 record that it is facing financial difficulty, a difficulty that could no doubt be overcome if our educational ~nstitutions were to acquire from them reference materials relating to our Newfoundland heritage and culture. This particular publishing house is a Newfoundland company employing Newfoundlanders and encouraging the writing of Newfoundlanders. Yet, it is being squeezed cut of existence because we are unable to channel part of the textbook ~d reference Cook budget towards the procurement of this material locally.

The credibility of this company has been recognized by the local writers' community and has also been recognized by the federal gover~~ent in Canada because of its performance and this company is now the only publisher in the region to qualii::y under the :.::-ecently announced l:ook publishing pragramrne which ?rovides assistance in marketing,developrnent of te~ttooks, research and professional development. In conclusion, :.tr. Speaker, ! fully endorse this resolution ~nd coremend it to all my colleagues on both sides of this House. Thank you. Z695

November 14, 1979 Tape No. 1075 IB-2 SOME HON, ME11EERS : Hear, hear~ MR. SPEAKER (SIMMS) : The hon. member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: ~x. speaker, I just want to take a few moments to say that I approve of this motion and I want to say how impressed I have been so far with the debate. When this motion first was introduced in the House, Mr. Speaker, and appeared an the order Paper I thought it was rather silly when we had so many urgent and ~portant matters that need to be debated in this hen. House such as unemployment, the energy crisis in the Province. But then after giving it a second thought, Mr.

Speaker, and watching programmes like I saw on television last night, the Fifth Sstate - I do not know how many rna~ers watched that programme last night but it was one of the finest programmes that I have ever seen on Labrador. And certainly - A.l'i HCN. MENBER: About what in Labrador? MR. NEA-t<.Y: Well, it dealt with the irritating nonsense that is coming out of Quebec about wanting to take over Labrador, about all the iron ore going down and building up cities and towns in Seven Islands and this sort of thing. But it was well done. And certainly any thinking Newfoundlander would certainly want to reflect, ~x.

Speaker, r- ·.•h;H· 'c: 1-'>1lr;n(>.ninq in this Province today in connection with Llbrador. If there were no other reason for supporting this motion, I believe that ,.-ould be sufficient reason, Sir, to give our young people,especially,and the older people :for that matter