May 23, 1975 ALBERTA HANSARD 129 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ALBERTA Title: Friday, May 23, 1975 10:00 a.m. [The House met at 10 a.m.] PRAYERS [Mr. Speaker in the Chair] head: INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 7 The Department of Manpower and Labour Amendment Act, 1975 MR. CRAWFORD: Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to introduce Bill No. 7, The Department of Manpower and Labour Amendment Act, 1975.

The important ingredients of this bill are that the Department of Labour will be placed in a new perspective consequent upon the government reorganization and the changes that have taken place in regard to ministerial responsibilities relative to the former Department of Manpower and Labour. Therefore, apart from the change of title, various changes in wording appear throughout, the substantive change itself in respect to the former duties in the department relating to Manpower being removed.

Equally important is the significant introduction into the Department of Labour of the responsibilities in respect of industrial health and safety. [Leave being granted, Bill 7 was introduced and read a first time.] Bill 22 The Cultural Development Amendment Act, 1975 MR. SCHMID: Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to introduce Bill No. 22, The Cultural Development Amendment Act, 1975. This being a money bill, His Honor the Honorable the Lieutenant- Governor, having been informed of the contents of this bill, recommends the same to the Assembly.

This bill will centralize the provisions relating to culture formerly contained in The Department of Culture, Youth and Recreation Act prior to the recent government reorganization. It will also introduce, Mr. Speaker, the publishing guaranteed loans which are for the encouragement of the literary arts, Canadian content in books, and other general support of the publishing industry in Alberta. [Leave being granted, Bill 22 was introduced and read a first time.] Bill 206 The Alberta Heritage Trust Fund Act MR. R. SPEAKER: Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to introduce a bill called The Alberta Heritage Trust Fund Act.

The bill establishes some guidelines for the use of the $1.5 billion potential resource revenue to the Province of Alberta. It provides that a heritage trust fund is established for the use of funds for present and future generations. It establishes that low interest loans can be made available through a group of trustees to such projects as small business development; farm and ranch loans; exploration and development of our resources through private companies; public works at the local municipal level, such as streets, sewer, water recreation and so on; and projects at the university and educational level.

It establishes trustees of the fund, consisting of a

130 ALBERTA HANSARD May 23, 1975 Provincial Treasurer, Provincial Auditor, two members of the Legislature, and the leader of the loyal opposition. It does not establish, Mr. Speaker, a plan for larger government or government growth by having government spend on behalf of people, but gives Albertans the opportunity to use their own initiative and creativity. Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure to introduce this bill at this time. [Leave being granted, Bill 206 was introduced and read a first time.] head: INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS MR. YURKO: Mr.

Speaker, it gives me a great deal of pleasure and honor to welcome two very distinguished gentlemen who are seated in the Speaker's gallery, to introduce them to you, sir, and to this House, and to welcome them to our province and our city. These gentlemen are His Excellency the Ambassador of Romania, Bucur Schiopu, and with him is the Senior Trade Commissioner and Economic Counsellor of the Romanian Embassy in Montreal, Gheorghe Istrate. I would like to take this opportunity to welcome them to this House. And in the famous words of you, Mr.

Speaker, in your intrusion into the Romanian language two years ago, I would like to say, biene atz venit. MR. GETTY: Mr. speaker, I'd like to introduce to the Legislature a group of 85 Grade 5 students from Greenfield Public School in the constituency of Edmonton Whitemud. They are accompanied today by Mrs. Pearson, Mrs. Nekolaichuk, Miss Dubord, and Mr. Morrow. I'd ask them to rise and be recognized by the Assembly. head: ORAL QUESTION PERIOD Syncrude Project -- Canadian Content MR. CLARK: Mr.

Speaker, I'd like to direct the first question to the Premier and ask if he'd outline to the Assembly the monitoring machinery the government has in place to keep an eye on the amount of Canadian content in the Syncrude project. MR. LOUGHEED: Mr. Speaker, I refer that question to the hon. Minister of Energy and Natural Resources. MR. GETTY: Mr. Speaker, I imagine that is accomplished in two ways. First, it's accomplished through the Department of Business Development and Tourism in the regular reports made from Syncrude to the department. It is also monitored by meetings we have with representatives of Syncrude.

More recently, it is monitored by a representative of the government on the board of directors of the Syncrude organization. MR. CLARK: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker, to the minister. Which department and which individual or agency in the government is primarily responsible for this question of Canadian and Alberta content in the Syncrude project? MR. GETTY: Mr. Speaker, it's a joint responsibility of the Department of Energy and Natural Resources and the Department of Business Development and Tourism. MR. CLARK: Supplementary question, Mr. Speaker, once again to the Minister of Energy.

How often is the government receiving these reports? You alluded to the reports of the Department of Business Development and Tourism. How often is the government receiving these reports and how many have we had since the government decided to go into the Syncrude project? MR. GETTY: Since the government decided to go into the Syncrude project? MR. CLARK: The federal government in Ottawa? I'm sorry. MR. GETTY: We were monitoring it well in advance of that, Mr. Speaker.

The hon. member recalls that one of the conditions under which the plant was approved was that, as much as possible, there be Canadian and Alberta content. However, since the agreement with the federal government, the Government of Ontario, and Syncrude, we have had --- oh gosh, I would have to get the number of meetings because I just can't pull them out of my head, and I haven't been at all of them. There must have been some dozen meetings since that time, perhaps more. If the hon. member would like to

May 23, 1975 ALBERTA HANSARD 131 phrase his question more specifically on the Order Paper, I would certainly get all the details. MR. CLARK: Further supplementary, Mr. Speaker, to the minister. I appreciate that the government has had a number of meetings, but has any one of these meetings had as its prime purpose the question of Canadian content and Alberta content in the project? MR. GETTY: Yes, Mr. Speaker, in a number of them, because we consider it one of the most important features of the project. MR. CLARK: Could I follow that up, Mr.

Speaker, either to the Minister of Energy or to the minister for native affairs. Is the government satisfied at this time with the number of native people who are presently employed on the Syncrude project? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Leader of the Opposition is clearly asking a question of opinion which could lead to a debate as to whether the number was satisfactory or not. MR. CLARK: Then I'll rephrase the question. Can the Minister of Energy or the minister for native affairs tell us the number of native people presently employed on the Syncrude project?

Secondly, what mechanism is used for the native people to have an opportunity to be employed on that project? MR. GETTY: Mr. Speaker, I don't know the exact number or whether, on a very current basis, there is any dissatisfaction with the number employed. However, I think the hon. member has raised a reasonable question, and I would certainly be happy to get the information for him. MR. BOGLE: Mr. Speaker, maybe I can add a little bit to that.

At the request of the two native organizations, the Indian Association of Alberta and the Metis Association of Alberta, a corporation was set up: the Alberta Native Development [Company]. Through that organization, involvement by the native people in the Syncrude project is to be proceeding. MR. CLARK: A supplementary question. Can the minister for native affairs give us some indication of the number of native people involved in the project at this time? MR. BOGLE: Mr. Speaker, I cannot at this time, but I could check and report back. MR.

CLARK: Could the minister confirm that, unfortunately, over 70 per cent of the working native population in northeastern Alberta is presently without employment? MR. BOGLE: I’ll report to that more fully, Mr. Speaker, but I believe I can confirm that. Syncrude Project -- Union Jurisdictions MR. CLARK: Supplementary question to the Minister of Energy, Mr. Speaker. Has the government had any communications with Canadian Bechtel and Syncrude regarding the firing of K & R trucking -- direct meetings? MR. CRAWFORD: Mr.

Speaker, I think I've offered information to the House before on the circumstances of K & R trucking and the jurisdictional dispute between unions which was one of the features as to whether K & R trucking continued to do work on the site, or to and from the site. As I understand it, and mentioned yesterday I believe in the House, I've replied to correspondence from some of the interested parties in connection with that. The decision in respect to K & R trucking was taken by the prime contractor, and they consider the decision to have been made on business grounds. MR. CLARK: Supplementary, Mr.

Speaker, to the minister. Has the minister had, or does he plan to hold, meetings with Syncrude and Canadian Bechtel regarding the question of the removal of a Canadian union in preference for an international union, and the principle of preference for Canadian unions that's involved through the whole project? MR. CRAWFORD: Mr. Speaker, my information is that the union that is organized in Pe Ben trucking, which is doing trucking work there at the present time -- the Teamsters Union -- is certified as a bargaining agent in the Province of Alberta and has been for many years. I don't know in what sense the hon.

Leader of the Opposition considers that not to be a Canadian union if the members are Canadians, and it is certified by the necessary authorities within the Province of Alberta as a bargaining agent. The hon. Leader of the Opposition would know that bargaining agents are certified to bargain on behalf of a unit as a result of the request of the majority of workers who form an appropriate unit. So I think in many respects, Mr. Speaker, there's been a great deal said on the issue that goes beyond what is necessary to understand what has been presented to me as a

132 ALBERTA HANSARD May 23, 1975 relatively simple, or at least straightforward, business decision on the part of Canadian Bechtel Limited. MR. CLARK: Further supplementary, Mr. Speaker, to the minister. Does the minister plan any meetings between himself or representatives of his department and Bechtel or Syncrude regarding Bechtel’s apparent preference for international unions as opposed to Canadian based unions? MR. CRAWFORD: Mr. Speaker, I don't believe Syncrude or Bechtel have asked for a meeting on that subject. I would want to say to the hon.

Leader of the Opposition that some of the information I'm able to give the House in respect of the circumstances, particularly involving K & R Transport, is based on information coming to me from the department, and, as well, one discussion with a representative of Canadian Bechtel. So in that sense, from the point of view of obtaining information from them which was volunteered, I've had one such discussion. However, to say that a meeting is planned for the purposes the hon. leader outlined, no request has been made.

I think the hon. leader's question included an assumption on the part of the attitude of Canadian Bechtel, which I don't know is all that apparent to other members. MR. CLARK: Mr. Speaker, a further supplementary question to the minister. Does the minister plan to take any initiative on behalf of the government to initiate such a meeting to deal with the question of preference for international unions as opposed to a Canadian based union? MR. CRAWFORD: Mr. Speaker, I think the hon. Leader of the Opposition continues to saw away on the same tune he began with . . . MR. CLARK: You didn't answer the question. MR.

CRAWFORD: . . . and that includes the assumption that a bargaining agent duly registered within the Province of Alberta is not a Canadian union. I don't know of anyone else who would put that

interpretation on those matters. MR. CLARK: Mr. Speaker, again, does the minister plan to organize a meeting between himself and the representatives . . . MR. SPEAKER: Order please. Order please. The hon. leader is repeating, I suppose now for the third time, a question in very much similar form to its predecessors. The minister is not obliged to answer, and the hon. leader is not obliged to be content with the answer, but he may not repeat the question over and over again. MR. CLARK: Mr. Speaker, he isn't content. MR. TAYLOR: Supplementary to the hon. minister.

Did the workmen of these respective unions have the opportunity to choose their union? MR. CRAWFORD: Mr. Speaker, I think the certification of the Teamsters Union in the Province of Alberta goes back many years. That is the union involved in Pe Ben trucking which is doing the work. Now how long Pe Ben trucking has been organized, I don't know offhand.

My understanding though, from officials of the department, is that the other union, which is the Canadian Brotherhood of Railway [Transport and General Workers], is the bargaining agent in K & R Transport and was very recently chosen by the workmen in that company, probably for the purpose of trying to comply with a requirement Canadian Bechtel had that the people doing work on the job be duly organized. The latter part of my answer is an impression I have, and I don't present it to the House as an unassailable fact. MR. TAYLOR: A further supplementary.

Is there any thought on the government's part of changing one of the basics in our Labour Act, namely, that the workmen choose their union, and that the minister doesn't tell them what union they have to have? MR. CRAWFORD: Mr. Speaker, in essence the hon. member is asking what plans the government might have to amend the Labour Act.

I would have to say to him that I don't feel the length of time I've had to meet with people in the labor field, so far, has been sufficient for me to come to any conclusions on what amendments in any sense should be recommended, let alone amendments in a very specific and very controversial area. I would say that there seems to be no lack of people who want to help in making suggestions about the amendments to the act, and no doubt, in due course, some amendments will take place, as they have in the past.

May 23, 1975 ALBERTA HANSARD 133 Syncrude Project -- Canadian Content (continued) MR. NOTLEY: Mr. Speaker, I have a supplementary question, but to the first question posed by the Leader of the Opposition to the hon. Minister of Energy, concerning the reports on Canadian components. My understanding is we do have reports and meetings. My question, however, is: is there some form of accounting procedure so that, as the government receives these reports, there is an accounting of the Canadian content as construction proceeds? MR. GETTY: Well, Mr. Speaker, I'm not sure what the hon. member means by an accounting.

It's certainly a reporting of what the current hiring percentages are. As a matter of fact, in the file that I have with me, and probably to help the members of the legislature, the hon. member and the Leader of the Opposition ... As of the end of March 1975, of Canadian Bechtel non-manual employees 52 per cent were Albertans; 36 per cent were Canadians from outside of Alberta; therefore, 88 per cent were Canadian residents. Manual employees are a higher Canadian percentage.

Syncrude, we have 77 per cent from Alberta; 18 per cent from parts of Canada outside of Alberta; therefore, 95 per cent of the Syncrude staff, from Canada. MR. NOTLEY: A further supplementary question, beyond the manpower issue. Does the minister have any statistics as to the use of Canadian components, to date, in the construction of the Syncrude project? MR. GETTY: Yes, I do, Mr. Speaker. As of March 1975, my statistics show that Canadian content in purchase services is running somewhere between 60 and 70 per cent. MR. MANDEVILLE: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question to the hon. Minister of Labour.

Does the minister know how many unions are on the job, and what unions are Canadian? MR. CRAWFORD: Mr. Speaker, I'm sure the information could be obtained as to how many unions are on the job. I would think there are at least 15 separate unions, and I just pull that figure out of the air. As to which ones are Canadian, of course my understanding of matters would be that there wouldn't be any unions operating in Canada that weren't entitled to. Film Industry MR. TAYLOR: My question is to the hon. Minister of Business Development. What progress is being made toward the establishment of a film industry in Alberta?

MR. DOWLING: Mr. Speaker, we have in the Department of Business Development and Tourism a branch called the film branch. There has been considerable progress. I do have a report which I could probably table later in the session. It's a very positive report and indicates there are probably about six proposed movies to be developed in the province and a permanent company to be established. If the hon. member wishes, I will gather together that information and make sure it's tabled for his use. Kirby Report MR. GHITTER: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the hon. Attorney General.

I'm wondering if the Attorney General could advise the House as to whether or not any progress has been made in the implementation of the first report of the Kirby Board of Review relative to the fatal inquiries act? MR. FOSTER: Mr. Speaker, I'll check. I'm not familiar with it. Retail Milk Prices DR. PAPROSKI: A question to the Minister of Agriculture regarding milk. Is the government considering bringing in or allowing a different consumer price for milk sold in retail stores relative to that which is delivered in the home -- for example, a lower price in the retail store? MR. MOORE: Mr.

Speaker, I think the hon. member would be aware that the subject of retail milk pricing is a function of the Public Utilities Board. As such, he would also be aware that the Executive Council or members of government are not involved in decisions of the Public Utilities Board.

134 ALBERTA HANSARD May 23, 1975 DR. PAPROSKI: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Is the government aware of information that some retailers are willing to sell their milk at a lower price in retail stores, yet these consumer benefits are not being allowed by the PUB? MR. MOORE: Mr. Speaker, my information is that there has been concern expressed with regard to the manner in which milk is priced, both for home delivery and retail sales within stores.

However, because of the information that is now or about to be brought before the Public Utilities Board, I wouldn't want to make any comment on what my thoughts or the thoughts of anyone in our department might be with regard to the pricing between home delivery and retail outlets. DR. PAPROSKI: One final supplementary, Mr. Speaker. If, in fact, the PUB makes a decision in the negative, is the minister willing to intervene and encourage the differential in the interests of allowing a cheaper price of milk, in light of inflation? MR.

SPEAKER: Perhaps the hon. member might repeat the question after the decision has been made. Metric Highway Signs MR. PURDY: Mr. Speaker, a question to the Minister of Transportation. With your permission, I need a bit of

preamble. At the present time, I understand the Department of Transportation is in the process of changing to the metric system for highway signing. The question to the minister: will the signs that are being changed now also be left in miles per hour and the miles that we now have? DR. HORNER: Mr. speaker, the province has an agreement with other western provinces that they would, over a period of some years, gradually develop metric signing. To that end preliminary exposure to the people of Alberta to metric signs is being done on some of the main highways this year.

I can assure hon. members that both methods of signing will continue and, indeed, we intend to increase the number of directional signs in the province. MR. PURDY: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker, to the minister. Will any of the cost that is going to be incurred for the conversion to the metric system be given by the federal government, or will all the cost be borne by your department? DR. HORNER: As far as I'm aware, Mr. Speaker, the cost will be borne by our department. It's part of our overall agreement with the federal government with regard to the gradual introduction of the metric system.

Sanitary Landfill MR. BRADLEY: Mr. Speaker, a question to the Minister of Municipal Affairs. Would the minister indicate to the Assembly what progress is being made toward the development of a regional sanitary landfill policy? MR. JOHNSTON: Mr. Speaker, the regional sanitary landfill policy is under review by our department. More specifically, in relation to the hon. member's territory, we are considering his area as well. We hope to have a solution for him specifically by August 31, 1975. Library Grants MR. BATIUK: Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Education.

This is with regard to the additional $15 of library grants -- which I fully endorse -- intended for school boards to use as they see fit. Could the minister advise whether he has any knowledge of any board using these funds for other than library purposes? MR. KOZIAK: Mr. Speaker, the matter of the $15 per pupil school library grants was partially touched on by myself in an answer to the hon. Member for Edmonton Jasper Place the other day. The grants were made available for the purpose of acquiring library material with an emphasis on Canadian content. There were, as I mentioned then, no legal strings attached.

However, the boards and counties were advised that the grant was for this very worth- while purpose. Personally, I do not know of beards or administrations using these funds for any other purpose. However, I can assure the hon. Member for Vegreville that the Department of Education will be looking into the manner in which these funds were spent to see if, in fact, the moral condition was abided by.

May 23, 1975 ALBERTA HANSARD 135 Stony Plain Hospital Inquiry MR. R. SPEAKER: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Hospitals and Medical Care. Can the minister report a potential date for the Stony Plain Hospital inquiry to be concluded? MR. MINIELY: Mr. Speaker, no, I don't think I am able to give a definitive date at this time. MR. R. SPEAKER: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary to the minister. Does the minister have any up-to-date estimates of the present costs of the inquiry? MR. MINIELY: Mr.

Speaker, I believe I have a memorandum or a letter of information on that at the present time, which is in the process of being signed in my office. MR. R. SPEAKER: Mr. Speaker, supplementary to the minister. Would the minister be prepared to table that in the Assembly? MR. MINIELY: Well, Mr. Speaker, I could file the information. But if he wishes it, the hon. member could put it on the Order Paper. MR. R. SPEAKER: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary to the minister. Due to the fact that Dr.

Kritzinger is the only resident doctor in Stony Plain and is not allowed to have privileges in the hospital, has the minister or the department made any plans to take care of emergencies at the hospital, particularly at night? MR. MINIELY: Mr. Speaker, perhaps in answering that question, for the information of hon. members we should review the way this situation arose. My understanding, and the information on the Stony Plain Hospital situation, is that some time back the board resigned and requested that the province appoint a provincial administrator. At the request, by resolution of the board, this was done.

Since that time the provincial administrator, acting under the Hospital Services Commission and indirectly responsible to myself, has been administering the hospital in Stony Plain while the public inquiry has been going on. In my examination of the matter of suspension of privileges, proper procedures were followed by the provincial administrator. The advice I have is that proper procedures were followed under the act. The administrator was acting on the advice of the medical staff.

In the meantime, pending the finalization and outcome of the inquiry into the Stony Plain Hospital, I think it would be my view that no further action should be taken. Brucellosis Vaccination MR. MILLER: I would direct my question to the Minister of Agriculture. In view of the situation whereby continued outbreaks of brucellosis are occurring on farms, particularly in northeastern Alberta, is consideration being given to the restriction of calfhood vaccinations? MR. MOORE: Mr. Speaker, I believe the hon. member is referring to a program of voluntary vaccination.

There are no plans whatsoever to change the situation that has existed for some time, and that is an involvement wherein the Government of Canada supplies vaccine and the Government of Alberta on a voluntary basis provides to owners of herds assistance for vaccination. MR. MILLER: Supplementary, if I may, Mr. Speaker. Are cattle coming into the Province of Alberta, tested before entering? MR. MOORE: Mr. Speaker, in talking a few weeks ago with officials of the federal Health of Animals Branch in Ottawa, my information is that they have stepped up testing in Alberta.

In addition, they've stepped up testing in Ontario and Quebec. There are presently a few isolated herds under quarantine in Alberta. There are perhaps more herds under quarantine in Ontario at the present time than there have been for some time, that being largely the result of the stepped-up control measures that have been applied by federal authorities. Consulting Firms MR. NOTLEY: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to direct this question to the hon. Minister of Energy and ask him to advise the Assembly whether the firm of Walter J.

Levy of New York is still retained as an energy consultant by the Government of Alberta or by its agencies? MR. GETTY: Yes, Mr. Speaker, it is one of many sources of information which the government uses for energy information on an international basis.

136 ALBERTA HANSARD May 23, 1975 MR. NOTLEY: A supplementary question to the hon. minister. Is it the government's intention to retain the firm in a consulting capacity for the foreseeable future? MR. GETTY: Mr. Speaker, the firm is presently just past halfway through a two-year contract, which can be terminated upon certain notice. We have no present intentions to give notice of termination. We have found that their information is a valuable part of a great deal of information we need to be abreast of all energy matters, both domestic and international. MR. NOTLEY: A further supplementary question.

When the firm of Walter J. Levy was engaged by the Government of Alberta, was the department aware that Mr. Levy had been chief of the petroleum

section of the U.S. Office of Strategic Services -- this was the predecessor of the CIA? MR. GETTY: Mr. Speaker, I'm not sure whether anybody in the department was aware of the details of his prior employment. MR. NOTLEY: Mr. Speaker, a further supplementary question. What steps are taken by the department, what guidelines are considered, in the appointment of firms which are non- Canadian? MR. GETTY: Mr.

Speaker, we try to judge their technical and administrative competence to ensure that what we are able to purchase is the best possible information we require to do the job of administering the province's energy resources. MR. NOTLEY: Mr. Speaker, one final supplementary question. In the light of possible conflicts between Canadian and American policy concerning energy, can the minister advise the Assembly whether or not the Levy firm still acts as a consultant for any of the U.S. government agencies, boards, bureaus, or what have you? MR. GETTY: Mr. Speaker, I couldn't specifically say.

Being a fairly large firm, they may well have a variety of clients and one could be some part of the U.S. government organization. However, I merely confirm again that this firm is one of very many sources of information to our government. MR. NOTLEY: Mr. Speaker, just one final, final supplementary question. In the field of international marketing, how many firms does the Government of Alberta retain for advice on international oil and petroleum marketing or energy marketing -- not how many are retained by the department over the whole field, but in the specific field of international energy marketing? MR.

GETTY: It would be difficult for me to say, because the information may be obtained on a project basis. It may be obtained specifically, for instance, to assist us in our Syncrude decisions, and then it would terminate. One other source of information we have arranged for, for instance, is the Canadian embassy in Washington, Mr. Speaker. But it would be difficult for me to give the hon. member a specific total. MR. NOTLEY: Just for clarification.

Could the minister advise how many firms not on a project-by-project basis, would be retained by the government on a retainer or contract basis similar to the two-year contract given the Levy firm of New York? MR. GETTY: Again Mr. Speaker, the hon. member would have to put it on the Order Paper so I could give him the details. Frontier Oil MR. MUSGREAVE: Mr. Speaker, I would like address this question to the Minister of Energy and Natural Resources.

In the speech he gave in Calgary this week on Canadian self- sufficiency in petroleum resources, he mentioned that this government would try to hasten development of frontier reserves. I'd like to know if he could advise the House if this means the government is going to develop new policies that will encourage the exploration by large integrated multinational oil companies who are the main participants in exploration activities in frontier areas in northern and eastern Canada. MR. GETTY: Mr. Speaker, I'm not certain as to what part of my speech the hon. member was referring.

One of the points we tried to make in that presentation to a group in Calgary was that a Canadian self-sufficiency price must have, as one of the basic tests it should meet, the ability to bring on frontier and synthetic sources of energy in addition to conventional sources of energy. In that regard, we felt that would be one of the basic tests a Canadian self-sufficiency price must meet. I believe that's the only reference in my presentation to frontier oil.

May 23, 1975 ALBERTA HANSARD 137 Mineral Leases MR. ZANDER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess it must be Minister of Energy and Natural Resources' day. My question is also directed to him. Is the minister contemplating any changes in the former department policy, whereby all mineral leases on Crown lands will be dealt with by the Surface Rights Board rather than by the department, as was the former practice? MR. GETTY: Mr. Speaker, I haven't been addressing myself to that subject in very recent times.

However, I would certainly say that I have an open mind on it and would be pleased to hear the hon. member's views on that matter. Petrochemical Development -- Canadian Content MR. GHITTER: Mr. Speaker, I too would like to address a question to the hon. Minister of Energy, to ensure that the applause he received in Calgary on his recent address doesn't go to his head. I'm wondering, Mr. Speaker -- this question relates to earlier questions today.

With respect to petrochemical permit applications which are presently before the cabinet, could the minister advise the House whether there will also be requirements relative to the Canadian content which must be adhered to by the applicants with respect to their applications? MR. GETTY: I presume, Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is referring to the ammonia applications which have been approved as industrial permits by the Energy Resources Conservation Board. I think, Mr.

Speaker, the degree of Canadian ownership will be one of the considerations which both the interdepartmental committee which is reviewing these matters and the cabinet committee -- and I assume the Executive Council itself -- will be giving attention to in deciding whether to approve the permits. MR. GHITTER: Supplementary Mr. Speaker. Does the hon. minister actually receive the information as to how much Canadian content, so-called, will be implicit within, say, the plant proposed in Brooks and the like? Do you receive that information? MR. GETTY: Yes, Mr.

Speaker, it would be something we would receive and use in our overall decision-making process. Ukrainian Language in Schools MR. TAYLOR: My question is to the hon. Minister of Education. Did the Department of Education initiate the excellent program of teaching Ukrainian as a second language in the primary grades of some of our schools in Alberta? MR. KOZIAK: Mr. Speaker, as a pilot project, I believe in the Edmonton separate and Edmonton public school systems, the teaching of Ukrainian in a bilingual atmosphere was approved by the department two years ago.

This year it's in the Grade 1 stage, perhaps early childhood as well. I believe next year it will be reaching into Grades 1, 2, and in the early childhood. MR. TAYLOR: Supplementary. Is the Department of Education monitoring the progress in regard to both English and Ukrainian as this course proceeds? MR. KOZIAK: The project is a three-year pilot project. At the expiration of that -- I suppose during, but primarily at the expiration of that three-year period of time -- the project will be evaluated from the point of view of the quality of education to determine its effectiveness.

At that time a better answer will be known. However, I do believe there are monitoring stages taking place even now. I'm not sure on that particular point. Canadian Cane Equipment Ltd. MR. NOTLEY: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to direct this question to the hon. Minister of Business Development and Tourism. It's an effort to clarify answers he gave the other day with respect to the bankruptcy of Canadian Cane. Mr. Speaker, with respect to the patent rights, is the government aware of the fact that under the program of advancement of industrial technology the federal government clearly has all prior rights on patents?

Under those circumstances, Mr. Speaker, my question for clarification is to inquire of the minister specifically what rights to patent we would have in light of the PAIT agreement, which clearly designates that to Ottawa.

138 ALBERTA HANSARD May 23, 1975 MR. DOWLING: Mr. Speaker, we do have some rights to patents, and I hope I indicated the federal government does have first right on those patents. If I hadn't, that's what I intended. The second part of the answer to that question, Mr. Speaker, is: our position on Canadian Cane is that, since we do have some rights, prior to releasing those rights to any prospective purchaser, we would require that the financial commitments we have made to that organization be . . .

We will realize our part of it -- our loan, our guarantee will be returned to us prior to any release of any patent rights we have. MR. NOTLEY: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question. In light of the fact that the amount owing by the concern to the federal government is more than the patent rights are likely to bring, does the minister see any likelihood, however small, of the province recovering any of that $660,000 guaranteed loan from residual patent rights after the federal government has taken their first claim? MR. DOWLING: Mr.

Speaker, the matter of the value of the patent rights is obviously something one could speculate on. I'm not sure that what the hon. member has intimated is correct. We believe the position we are in now is that there is a very good chance we can realize the extent of our involvement -- I mean write off that involvement very easily. It locks very positive at the moment. MR. SPEAKER: Supplementary by the hon. Member for Edmonton Kingsway, followed by a further supplementary by the hon. Leader of the Opposition. DR. PAPROSKI: I have another question, Mr. Speaker. It's not a supplementary. Thank you. MR.

CLARK: My supplementary question to the Minister of Business Development would be: has the minister been contacted by firms which, in fact, are interested in the patent rights? MR. DOWLING: Mr. Speaker, I have not personally, but I understand the Export Agency has. I believe three firms have shown some interest in obtaining those patent rights. MR. CLARK: Further supplementary, Mr. Speaker, to the minister. Has the Export Agency had discussions with the federal government regarding their attitude towards possible arrangements in this area? MR. DOWLING: Mr.

Speaker, I would have to have clarification from the Export Agency on that because I wasn't a part of any meetings that did transpire. I understand meetings have been in progress over a fair length of time regarding the entire matter of Canadian Cane. MR. NOTLEY: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary to the hon. minister, then. In light of his recent reply to the Leader of the Opposition, who is carrying on discussions with the federal authorities concerning this specific question of the residual patent rights? Is it someone in your department, or is that being delegated to the Export Agency?

Or who precisely is, in fact, in charge of that particular aspect at this point in time? MR. DOWLING: Mr. Speaker, the Export Agency has been so totally involved in the project, they are the people who would be contacting the federal government, and undoubtedly have in the past. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Edmonton Kingsway, and perhaps we could come back to this topic another day. Misericordia Hospital Strike DR. PAPROSKI: Mr. Speaker, a question to the Minister of Hospitals and Medical Care.

In view of the affirmative vote last night of the medical staff at the Misericordia Hospital, voting a non-confidence in the administration and a request for resignation of the executive director and the chairman of the board, is the government now planning any further action in this regard? MR. MINIELY: Mr. Speaker, I might say in reply to the hon. Member for Kingsway that under normal circumstances I would enjoy meeting with individual members of the medical profession, even for my own self-education process.

But in the current circumstances, to which the hon. member refers, we do have a locally appointed board, and the proper course of action for the medical staff of the Misericordia Hospital is to bring their difficulties to the board. I'm sure the board and the medical staff at the Misericordia Hospital can sit down and resolve their difficulties. DR. PAPROSKI: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. In view of the apparent breakdown in communication and lack of confidence, will the minister, minimally, take the initiative of encouraging sitting down and communicating regarding these matters?

May 23, 1975 ALBERTA HANSARD 139 MR. MINIELY: Mr. Speaker, I would have to say, no. I would say again that we have a locally appointed board, and the proper course and the proper route for the medical staff to raise any grievances they may have is with the board of the Misericordia Hospital. MR. R. SPEAKER: Mr. Speaker, supplementary to the minister. Upon request of the employer group and employee group, would the minister be prepared then? MR. MINIELY: Mr.

Speaker, I think I've said before in the House that the boards are appointed to administer the hospitals, and they are representative of citizens on a local basis. That is the proper course and proper place for difficulties in an individual hospital to be dealt with -- at the board level. In other words, Mr. Speaker, my answer to the hon. Member for Little Bow would be that the board is the place those problems should be resolved. DR. PAPROSKI: Mr. Speaker, a last supplementary on this topic. If the board refused to meet with the medical staff, will the minister undertake to meet with the medical staff then? MR.

MINIELY: Mr. Speaker . . . MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member is wandering into the field of speculation. MR. NOTLEY: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question. In view of the fact that the board at the Misericordia is not appointed similarly to other hospital boards but is, in effect, a self-perpetuating board where re-appointments are made by the board itself, is there any consideration of changing the structure of the beard? MR. MINIELY: Mr. Speaker, certainly not at this time. MR.

SPEAKER: Before calling Orders of the Day, would the Assembly give leave to the hon. members for Calgary McKnight and Vegreville to revert to the Introduction of Visitors? HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. head: INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS (reversion) MR. BATIUK: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It gives me real pleasure to introduce to you and through you to the members of the Legislative Assembly, 60 Grade 7, 8, and 9 students from the Lavoy School in my constituency. They are accompanied by their principal, Mr. Spok, and teachers, Mr. Horon and Mr. Footz.

They are seated in the public gallery, and I would ask that they rise and be recognized. MR. MUSGREAVE: Mr. Speaker, I must apologize to the House. I can't advise you if my group has arrived or not. I haven't received the message. ORDERS OF THE DAY head: CONSIDERATION OF HIS HONOR THE LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR'S SPEECH M r. King proposed the following motion to the Assembly: That an humble address be presented to His Honor the Honorable the Lieutenant-Governor of Alberta as follows: To His Honor the Honorable Ralph G.

Steinhauer, Lieutenant-Governor of the Province of Alberta: We, Her Majesty's most dutiful and loyal subjects, the Legislative Assembly now assembled, beg leave to thank Your Honor for the gracious speech Your Honor has been pleased to address to us at the opening of the present session. [Adjourned debate: Mr. Musgreave] MR. MUSGREAVE: Mr. Speaker, as the second Progressive Conservative member for McKnight constituency, I consider it a privilege to speak on behalf of the 22,000 voters in McKnight.

140 ALBERTA HANSARD May 23, 1975 Our constituency is named after Willie McKnight, who served his country with great honor in the Second World War. At the age of 18, he worked his way to Britain on a cattle boat, joined the RAF , and became a member of Douglas Bader's squadron serving in France. He shot down 26 enemy aircraft, was twice decorated with a DFC, and was killed in action at the age of 22. All here owe a great debt to these young men and women who served and gave their lives so that we can conduct the people's business in peace and harmony today. Mr.

Speaker, McKnight constituency is for the most part middle class, middle income, and composed of middle-aged citizens. And, Mr. Speaker, a middle-aged citizen is anyone who's ten years older than you are. In the northern part of our constituency we have a younger population, far more working mothers with all the needs of day care centres, schools, recreational facilities, and housing. On a per capita basis we probably have more limited-dividend and public housing units than any part of our city.

Naturally, my constituents are in full agreement with the proposed reduction of personal income taxes in the throne speech. As a Conservative, I strongly support the attitude of middle-class citizens who are concerned with overtaxation by any government. Those of us who are able should be responsible for our own affairs. We need to remember the old-fashioned virtue of thrift. We should not apologize to anyone that we would rather do things ourselves. Yet, Mr. Speaker, that is what worries my constituents.

Many governments in Canada are weakening the middle class by their laissez faire attitude towards inflation which has ruined the middle class in other modern countries. When we reduce self-dependency of individuals, when we expect the state to care for everyone, we are weakening the very backbone of a free, democratic society. It is my hope, Mr. Speaker, to work for the objectives of my constituents while a member of this House. This was my fifth election. The four were successful, but I can honestly say that this one was the most exciting. I had the largest, most diverse, and most enthusiastic group of workers.

But the political process of how I got here -- the nomination meeting, the election campaign, the rhetoric, the lawn signs, and all the rest -- is of little interest to most of my constituents. They want to feel that by hard work and thrift, by planning, by doing things for themselves, their lot in this life will get better. With rising costs of living, with settlements to organized groups of 20 per cent or more, with little hope of their young people obtaining single-family homes, a middle- class person in Canada has to be an optimist if he thinks things are getting better. Mr.

Speaker, the Speech from the Throne spells out this hope, in my view, but the hope will not become a reality if we are not good stewards of the time and money of the citizens of Alberta. Mr. Speaker, this is why I am here as their spokesman. I am pleased to know, Mr. Speaker, of the proposed programs for our senior citizens, but again I have some concerns. It is easy for politicians to be concerned about senior citizens, because today they are an in group with the news media. They are a successful way for any of us to get press.

I'm pleased to hear that our government is planning to help by means of home-owner grants and things of this nature. But I would point out that free bus passes or free park privileges or a $1,000 home grant may be fine. But if you don't have a home and you don't do any camping, what help is it to you? The greatest concern of those who have studied the aging process is that the elderly have three major concerns: enough money to live with dignity; secondly, a healthy body to enjoy work and leisure as they desire; thirdly, their concern with society's attitude towards the aged.

Many of us who are parents remember the saying of a few years ago that you don't trust anyone who is over 30. The people who coined that phrase don't use it any more, because most of them are over 30. I would hope, Mr. Speaker, that the Speech from the Throne, which was certainly positive with senior citizens, would consider some other considerations of my constituents. For example, I believe there should be more flexibility in retirement. I think we should do everything in our power to remove the compulsory retirement age of 65.

People should have the option to retire early, but they should have the option to stay to 68 or 70 if they are healthy, productive, and if they wish to stay longer. I think, Mr. Speaker, we should try to get away from the trend of isolation of our senior citizens in our society. This is why I think the suggestion of keeping people in their homes as long as possible is an excellent one. I think we would be doing greater things if we forgot the idea that old people cannot be educated, are unemployable, asexual, and unintelligent, and, as the ancient Greeks would say, a burden to the soul.

It's no wonder that today people over 65 feel they are part of an underprivileged, poor minority, a group all of us will join if we live long enough. Now, Mr. Speaker, I would like to express my concerns about another minority in my constituency and in Alberta. I speak of the working mother, the mother raising children by herself, the woman in the business world who tries to make it on her own, the professional woman who has university training but cannot work in our society because of male domination of all the levers of power in politics, business, and in the fields of education and medicine, to name a few.

Unfortunately, many people still feel that any woman striving for a new place in the sun is either a bra-burning liberationist or some kind of freak who had a sad early childhood experience that created a lifelong distrust of men. We were the first province in Canada to bring in a bill of rights. I know from personal experience as a member of various boards and agencies in the City of Calgary that many colored people have been successful in redressing their concerns under this particular bill.

But I would like to see more women take up the challenge of obtaining their just rights in our society by attempting to have government agencies, unions, employees, and professional societies

May 23, 1975 ALBERTA HANSARD 141 provide jobs, salaries, and opportunities on an equal basis with men, as spelled out in The Individual's Rights Protection Act. It is my hope, Mr. Speaker, that we incorporate such measures spelled out in the Speech from the Throne on income tax reduction, on aid to the physically disabled, on help for the senior citizens, and that this 18th Legislature emulate some of the pioneer work done for women by woman legislators in this House some 50 years ago.

I would hope that this government would move in the following directions for helping women: to enforce the provision of day care centres in any new government institutions that may be built throughout our province; that we would prepare legislation that would provide for equal distribution not only of the home, but of any business assets acquired by a man or wife during the marriage, if there is a divorce. Finally, I would hope that we bring legislation forward to grant maternity leave to women who have worked for a year or more, as presently exists in many provinces in Canada.

With two income earners in a family increasing throughout our province, employers everywhere must review their attitudes toward working mothers. As women are the only members of our society who can have babies, we've got to realize that past attitudes of both legislators and citizens must change to accommodate the fact that working women are going to be with us for many, many generations to come. Mr. Speaker, the life fortunes of marriage partners are bound together.

If a woman stays home, raises a family, and looks after her husband, in my view she is entitled to half of everything he accumulates in this world, not just the family home. Likewise, Mr. Speaker, I think similar provisions should apply to a husband. Mr. Speaker, when I consider that I received almost 7,000 more votes than my nearest opponent, I am aware of the awful responsibility given to this government. We received more votes on a provincial basis than any previous government.

This tells me two things: the people of this province are pleased with the performance of our Premier ever since he entered this House, and they want this government to retain stewardship of the heritage trust fund. To me this fund is the greatest single idea to come out of our government in its lifetime. To me, it's like planting a tree. If it's planted properly and is well cared for, future generations will receive the maximum benefit. We could fritter our money away on huge giveaway programs. In my short stay in the House, already I've seen indications in this direction. What would happen?

We would hire huge bureaucracies that would, in effect, get rid of our total heritage in the province. I think it's a constant concern to this entire House that we always ward this off. Mr. Speaker, my constituents are concerned that we do not waste our resources today, that we do not weaken the fabric of a society built on old-fashioned ideas of hard work, education, thrift, and good old-fashioned morality. These are the concerns of my constituents and why I, as their spokesman, am pleased to speak on behalf of the throne speech of our Lieutenant-Governor, Ralph G. Steinhauer. [applause] MR.

SPEAKER: Are you ready for the question? MR. KUSHNER: Menee sehodnee ... MR. SPEAKER: I apologize to the hon. member. Might we now revert to Introduction of Visitors by the hon. Member for Calgary McKnight? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. head: INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS (reversion) MR. MUSGREAVE: Mr. Speaker, I have the honor to introduce to you and through you to the members of this Legislature, some students who are, I believe, in the constituency of the hon. Member for Mountain View as well as my own. In the members gallery, Mr.

Ron Toothe is present with eight students from the James Fowler High School in my constituency, Calgary McKnight. I would ask that they please rise and he recognized by this legislature. Mr. Speaker, I would also like to introduce to you Mr. John Finlayson with students from the Crescent Heights High School who are in the other gallery. I'd ask them to stand and be recognized also. head: CONSIDERATION OF HIS HONOR THE LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR'S SPEECH (continued) MR. SPEAKER: I apologize to the hon. Member for Calgary Mountain View.

142 ALBERTA HANSARD May 23, 1975 MR. KUSHNER: Mr. Speaker, members of the Assembly. Menee sehodnee dozuhee preemnoo menee tootka budetee, alehee representovatee nash kroohk in Mountain View, Calgary. Yaah teperka coseem khochu dozuhee krasno poogakowatee toteem shoo taak kaschkoo robellee, shoo yaah mehhe tootka nennkaa yehech representovatee. [As submitted: It is a very great pleasure for me to be here today to represent our constituency of Calgary Mountain View. I wish, at this time, to thank everybody who worked so hard for me that I am able to represent them here today. ] AN HON. MEMBER: How to show off.

How to show off. MR. KUSHNER: Mr. Speaker, I am honored and deeply touched to have the opportunity to speak to this Assembly today, and, as a matter of fact, have that privilege. My constituency actually has a good cross

section of ethnic groups. As a matter of fact, it has every ethnic group which lives in Alberta. I am greatly impressed with the calibre of members elected to this Assembly. I know we can all work very hard together, including the opposition, not only for what’s best for the constituency, but really in fact for what is best for Alberta. Mr. Speaker, I have one point, and I want to warn this Assembly, as a matter of fact, that it bothers me extremely. It needs direction to the municipalities in this province. I can honestly and frankly speak in the City of Calgary, and that is: direction to our tax assessors.

Maybe with all good intentions, not only should it appear right but it's got to be right. I can say the older residents in this so-called new assessment have been hit the hardest, as high as from three to four times, as far as land value is concerned; only about a third of the land value to the upper-crust districts, and I may name some: Eagle Ridge, Willow Estate, even the acreages bounding our city, still under the agricultural status. This to me is a very unfair and unjust method we're using.

As a matter of fact, I had my first opportunity in 1965 to meet with the cabinet of this government under the leadership of the former premier, and now a senator, the Hon. Ernest Manning. At that time, members of this Assembly, I was assured that the tax assessment manual would be reviewed and would be corrected. My mission at that time to meet with them -- as a matter of fact, one of the hon. members sitting here today, the former Minister of Highways, I believe was at that meeting, the hon. member, Gordon Taylor.

At that time, shortly before that, Forest Lawn town was annexed to the City of Calgary, not necessarily by choice as some of you may recall. At that time, reassessment by the City of Calgary took place, and as a result of our meeting with the cabinet, another reassessment took place, and was somewhat adjusted. From my point of view, I think we have to look into this area very seriously, review the matter, and correct the situation. Here, 10 years later, we have the same problem identically. You will hear much more about this in the next week or so when the citizens of this province will receive their tax notices.

The people expressed great confidence in Premier Lougheed’s leadership by increasing the mandate from 49 to 69. But we also have to appreciate the fact that as a result of this, the 6 remaining opposition members are going to find it humanly impossible to carry out an effective scrutiny of government legislation. This means there is going to be an added burden placed on the government to be responsible and extra careful to carry out its mandate.

I am concerned about many things, not necessarily in the order that I may place them: that handicapped people be given the same level of assistance as senior citizens, which we are proposing now, a guaranteed income of $235 a month. Mr. Speaker, we have a few dollars stashed away under the mattress now for a rainy day, and it’s raining today. I hope we’ll be able to pull out a few and probably even sweeten this a little higher than $265. And as some of you probably know, I am proposing [this] by notice of motion, which is on the Order Paper, and I hope I will get your support for the handicapped people.

The senior citizens must be given the incentive. They are the pioneers. They made it possible for all of us to be here. They have worked hard, very hard, to the point that they must be able to live in their homes. He must subsidize them as we are subsidizing the senior citizens who live in lodges, if that is their preferred choice of accommodation. Another point: I have been associated with construction most of my life. I believe the Alberta Housing Corporation is ineffective, by too much red tape, to the point that it’s getting discouraging. As a matter of fact, it forces people to go elsewhere.

Thirty-five thousand dollars is not adequate to buy a new home today. Fifteen years ago it meant about $10,000. To buy a modest home today, you've got to pay at least $40,000; and $28,000 for an old home. There again, it is not enough. I hope we will examine this area to make it effective so people can make better use, and I am especially referring to an average person who is trying to obtain a home. I congratulate the Premier and am indeed very proud of his announcing the $200 million for people with lower incomes. That is something. I am indeed proud.

Home ownership must be based on a scale as wide as possible, to give a person the objectives of feeling and belonging. I don't know of any other way than accomplishing a home; it's a big factor in one's life. With respect to providing more effective law and order, it seems to me we no longer make the punishment suit the crime. We tend to deal too harshly with minor crime and too leniently with major crime. Too much attention is placed on the effect of punishment on

May 23, 1975 ALBERTA HANSARD 143 the offender, and too little on the victim. We forget that the criminal element has no sense of responsibility to society, in my view. They're out to get all they can out of our society without providing anything in return. Quite often victims of crime are highly responsible members of our society who provide an earning power to their families and who have been very active in our communities.

Most of us here today have worked very, very hard, and on the labor scene we are presently witnessing a growing distortion in our earning power between different labor groups, which arises due to the vast differences in bargaining power. The weaker groups are falling farther and farther in their earnings, compared with those who are strong. For example the clerks, the office workers, still get under $5 an hour. Our plumbers get $14 an hour. As a matter of fact, most of the trades have been offered around $3 an hour.

The plumbers right now are asking for $3.85 an hour, and if they don't get it I wouldn't be surprised to see a strike, unfortunately probably at the expense of other trades. That is not talking about those workers in the hotel and restaurant field who are working for $2.25 an hour. Those people are presently very badly shafted by the developments of our economy. Tips -- forget it. I don't think we should depend on this sort of thing, and many of those in offices don't get tips. Not all of them. At present, inflation is our most serious problem, far more serious than the energy problem we hear so much about.

The stabilization of wages -- we must take measures as well to stabilize prices. This matter falls under federal jurisdiction, but as a member of Confederation, the Province of Alberta must bring as much influence to bear as possible to bring the federal government to serious grips with this problem. Governments are deeply involved in this problem since one-third of the labor force is civil servants. Another point that bothers me is automobile insurance.

I strongly believe in and advocate free enterprise, but I believe insurance companies must streamline and bring their house into much better order than it is today. To cite one example: it is almost impossible for a young driver with a proven good record to pay for this insurance. This has a very serious implication. I would like the Minister of Transportation to consider, or maybe it has been done now, that before the driver can obtain a license plate, he must have proof that he has an insurance coverage for that year. I'm behooved if this isn't done yet.

He have by far too many people who, because of the cost of insurance, ride without coverage. I appreciate the opportunity of serving this Assembly, and I am looking forward to working very, very closely with you. [applause] MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, I want to take advantage of the throne debate to deal with a number of items. The throne debate traditionally provides for members to speak about almost anything in the world. I think in this Legislature we have done that in the throne debate throughout the years.

I think it's a good thing, because it gives a member an opportunity not only to raise everything he wants to raise about his own constituency, but also to raise things that are of concern to him and his constituents which are perhaps not even under the jurisdiction of the provincial government. First of all, I want to say a few things about one or two worries. I was somewhat concerned today when I heard the questioning from the official opposition regarding unions. I was concerned because it appeared to me that we were asking the government to decide for the workmen what union they should belong to.

Now this has been a right that has been won over many, many years. A workman has the choice, the employees have the choice of their union, whether that union be Canadian based or American based. It's still the workman's choice. And if we're going to deny that right to our workmen, we'd change the entire basis of our labor act and the entire basis of our thinking in this province even in the individual's rights act. We give a lot of lip-service to local autonomy, but as soon as something goes wrong, and the opposition is particularly at fault with this, we ask the government to intervene.

If local autonomy is what we want it to be, surely the local autonomy should be effective all the time, the government shouldn't be expected to step in and take over because something isn't going to the liking of a member of a number of members of the Legislature. I think we have to give a lot of rethinking to this matter of local autonomy. If we expect the government of provide local autonomy to hospital boards and municipalities and school boards, let's be consistent and not expect the government to intervene every time there's a little bit of trouble in one of these particular areas.

Surely the local people have access to their local government, perhaps even more so than to their provincial or federal legislators. They're closer; they live in the same community; they're there all the time. While we talk about local autonomy, today I see a trend to get away from local autonomy and have the provincial government make the decisions for those who are elected locally to do so. This isn't fair to the people who elect them, and it's not fair to the people who are elected.

I'm not sure that we shouldn't set out some type of BNA act between the responsibilities of the provincial government and the local governments. I know they are the creation of the provincial government, and I know there's some interchange -- taking away of some privileges from time to time and giving of more privileges from time to time. But the thing that's worrying me now, both in regard to local autonomy for municipalities and local autonomy for unions, is that when there's a little bit of difficulty in the field, we expect the provincial government to step in.

I don't want the provincial government to decide for workmen who their union is going to be, whether it's American based or Canadian based. And I'm not too sure that we can

144 ALBERTA HANSARD May 23, 1975 replace some of those unions that are international in scope, nor should we. I refer to the United Mine Workers of America. I don't think there's a more responsible union in this country than the UMWA in this province, and it has been responsible throughout the years. It's composed of men who know what's going on and who are not going to try to do something for a political motive or to gain personal advantage. I think of a mine I know of where the UMWA, of course, is the union.

They agreed to give a lower wage to the workmen in that mine than they do in other mines in this province. Normally that wouldn't be tolerated at all by some unions. But the union knows that if they didn't do that, they would close up the mine. It's a case of having work or not having work. It's a case of putting men on welfare or letting them work at a somewhat lower wage but still a reasonably good wage. I think that's responsibility. I don't want government or the employer to decide for the employee which the union is going to be. The employees in this province are rot illiterate.

They are well able to decide what union they want to be their spokesman. And I don't think it behooves legislators to try to intervene and tell them what's good for them or how they can better run their own business. They are quite capable of doing that themselves. I'd also like to say a word or two in connection with this pilot project that I asked the hon. Minister of Education about today. You know, for years in this province we made a farce of teaching language. We insisted on starting French in Grades 9, 10, 11, and 12.

We had teachers who were ill prepared, who couldn't speak the language, [but] knew the grammar, and so it was a case of teaching the grammar. Untold harm was done to hundreds of students in this province who later wanted to learn French as a speaking language and found they had to relearn or unlearn almost everything they learned in their high school days. But the real difficulty was in starting it in Grade 9, and starting it not as a working language, but something you had to have in order to get to university.

So you crammed and went through three years of French and learned how to write a short French story, and if you met a Frenchman on the street and started to talk to him in French, he'd think you were talking German or Russian. He just didn't understand; he couldn't understand. I remember going to school with a French girl. Every night after the French lesson, she'd have a big laugh on the way home. She'd have a big laugh. She'd say, that's not the way you say it at all. She said, I don't know what the teacher is saying when she talks French. This is a French-born girl who spoke French.

In addition to that, she was pretty, which helped matters a great deal. But the point I am making now is that the change of thinking in the Department of Education and [among] the educators in this province that we start teaching a language in Grade 1, is getting down to the real method of teaching a language. When you go to another country and find waitresses in Greece and in France and in Denmark who can speak two and three and sometimes four languages quite fluently waitresses, not university people -- you have to say, how have they done this? How have they done it?

I'm always amazed when I see someone coming from Holland or Denmark or France or Germany. Two days after they're here, they're speaking to you quite fluently in English. But our people, who learned French in most of our schools under the old system, could no more talk French in France or Quebec than I could talk Arabic in Arabia -- completely useless in that regard. Well, we've made the change, and I'm glad to see that we're now teaching French in our lower grades. Now we're starting another language, Ukrainian, which I think is an excellent thing, because a large portion of the population is Ukrainian.

But even if it weren't, it's a language that is well worth knowing. I'd like to see similar projects conducted in Italian, Hungarian, and Spanish. There are millions of people in this hemisphere who speak Spanish only - -- a tremendous opportunity for business, and our young people should be preparing for that. But I want to commend the Department of Education for making the change that was advocated for years, that is starting their language teaching where it should have been started years ago, in Grade 1. And I'm hoping this project is not going to stop in Grade 3.

I hope, when the Ukrainian pilot project gets to Grade 3, it is extended to Grade 6 and then eventually kept going on. What will that mean? It will mean our young people will graduate eventually having a working knowledge, not only speaking, but reading and doing everyday business in more than one language. Where they can read the great literatures of the nations the language of which they're learning, where they can learn the culture in a realistic way: that's what I call the advantage of a language. So I commend the Department of Education on this program. I hope it will be continued.

I want to say a word or two now in connection with the heritage trust fund. I do this because this was a major item in the election campaign, and I made my position very clear to the people to whom I stood for election. I didn't want to be elected on any false premises in regard to the Alberta heritage trust fund, it's too important an item. For many years, I suppose every government in Canada wanted to be in a position where they had a sum of money they could set aside, not include in the everyday routine expenditures of the budget, for special items, special things. And really, that's what we're doing.

We're able, because of the resources we have, because of world prices, because of a number of factors, to amass a considerable sum of money. Instead of putting it all into general revenue to be used in everyday expenditures, I think the government was wise in saying, here's something special that happens only in the lifetime of a few governments -- very, very few governments -- and let's make sure that we use this in a

May 23, 1975 ALBERTA HANSARD 145 special way. I approve of that type of procedure in connection with the Alberta heritage trust fund. Now, what are some of the items for which it could be used? I don't think it should interfere at all in the regular programs that have been going on in this province for a number of years, such as building roads, education, enforcement, et cetera, et cetera. These things surely can be paid for out of the regular methods of running this province.

The Alberta heritage trust fund is based on the idea that we in this generation do not own the resource from which it came, that some of it belongs to future generations as well. I think that is an excellent premise upon which to build. Consequently, when we are setting out programs for the Alberta heritage trust fund, if they're based on the premise that the result will be enjoyed by this generation and the next generation and the next generation, I think it's a proper use of the money. Because it will extend those benefits from generation to generation for a long time to come.

I hope that none of the hon. members, even the youngest in this House, will live to see the day when we have no oil or gas in this province. But it is a possibility. It is a resource that will eventually, someday, be depleted. When that depletion takes place, if there isn't something to take its place we're going to be short of revenue. We're going to be short of jobs.

One of the things that appealed most to the young people of the Drumheller constituency in regard to this fund was: I said I believe the government's policy was to make sure there would be a continuation of jobs after the oil and gas and even the coal were gone. I think that is so. That's why I support petrochemical industries. I know there may be a lot of difficulties with the petrochemical industry. There are going to be a lot of heartaches and headaches for those who administer it. But what is it going to do?

It's going to provide a new industry, a whole new range of products, a whole new range of jobs that's going to go on and on and expand with a world market, not only with Alberta as a base, but a world market for the base. I like that vision. Too long, and for many years, people in this province tried to get our coal into other markets of the world. I saw, as a boy, coal miners in the Drumheller valley who were going hungry, going without enough food -- and I was in a home where this happened -- because the miners, the fathers and older brothers, couldn't get jobs in the mine.

I remember how bitter I was at one time when I found the Ontario market was importing millions of tons of American coal, keeping an industry viable in another country while the people in the Drumheller constituency and its counterparts in other parts of Alberta and Nova Scotia were sitting on the tracks waiting for the whistle to blow, waiting for the light in the tipple to go on. I thought it was unfair. Why didn't we have a market for our Canadian coal?

I remember a former operator in Drumheller saying: if we could just get one-tenth of the Ontario market, we could put every miner to work in Drumheller so there would be no hunger in the homes, no mothers going without food, no children being undernourished. It took us years to get to the point where now we're beginning to realize that coal is an important item.

I want to commend the former Minister of Mines and Minerals, the present Minister of Energy, and particularly the Premier, for their willingness to look at coal, not as a renewable resource but as a valuable, viable resource which is going to play a very important part. I'm not going to get into the question of whether or not we should have strip mines in the foothills. We have millions of tons under the ground that we can get out by underground methods, if we get a market. If we get a market. I was very interested last year when the hon.

Premier said he had spoken to the Premier of Ontario, and later the Premier of Ontario did get coal from Alberta to try in their factories. I understand now that there are real experiments going on in Ontario to see if they can use coal. They're doing it not only because they too are Canadians and now want to use Canadian products, but because they got a real scare last year when it looked like the American coal supplies might be cut off. Here's a danger we have to recognize. There's a tremendous future for coal.

Coal in the petrochemical sense, used as a fuel or broken down into some of the parts that coal makes, has a real future in this province. As this petrochemical idea expands, not the first one, maybe not the second one, but one of these I hope is going to be centred on coal -- using coal as a fuel, using coal to break down in order to get some of the ingredients we need in this country. One of the things that can be made from coal is aspirin. And if inflation gets much worse in this country, we're going to need a lot of aspirins in Canada.

If the Canadian government doesn't start doing something about the freight rates across this country and about inflation, the whole Canadian nation is going to need a lot of aspirins in the next few years. Wouldn't it be just as well to make them out of Drumheller coal as to buy them from Bayer? It will make just as good an aspirin and cure just as many headaches. Well, that's only one of the 200 items that can be made from coal. It's a thrilling thing to be living in a period when you see, although it's slow just now, a development of what coal can really mean to this province and to this nation.

I'm glad the government is prepared to look at coal and is spending some money in research in connection with the development of coal. I think that's a proper use of money from the Alberta heritage fund, because it will provide jobs in the future. It will provide benefits for future generations. There's another item I'd like to mention, though. I heard people condemn the program advanced by the hon. Premier -- at least it is so stated in the press, the only information I had on it -- that money would be provided for irrigation in southern

146 ALBERTA HANSARD May 23, 1975 Alberta. I’ve heard some people say, this isn't a good policy. It should be spent somewhere else or for something else. Well, when I look at the results of the food conference the last three or four times, whether it's been held in Rome or in Berlin, the people who have been assessing the available world food reserves have become very alarmed. The last meeting indicated that there were reserves for less than one year for the peoples of the world. If there were complete crop failures, within a year there'd be hunger in almost every country of the world. That isn’t a good thing.

They'd like to have a reserve of a few years. Well, what better use could be made of some of the money from the Alberta heritage trust fund than to increase the food supply? Irrigation will do that. That's a proven fact. There's nothing risky about that. More production -- I have never followed the policy of the Canadian government when they've asked us to cut down production, to take acres of land out of production.

The day when I first got into politics, I decried governments cutting down apple trees and killing little pigs in order to keep the market viable for those who happened to have it, while there was hunger all around us. The production of food is an important item, and with the growing populations of the world we can't say we are not our brother's keeper. We have some responsibilities. The more we can get our foods into other countries of the world, the better it's going to be.

I know there are some risks in regard to this but it's not only an excellent policy of showing that we do care about human life; whether that human life has the color of yellow, red, black, blue, or white. They're human beings. We are concerned that they have a proper opportunity to live and do their thing on this earth. If they haven't got food, as in many countries today, they can't do that. I sometimes tell young people at banquets that there are people their age in the world today who don't have as much food for a whole week as they have on that one plate at that banquet.

That is the truth, according to the United Nations surveys. We're one of the food baskets of the world. Why shouldn't we use some of our heritage trust fund to make sure there's increased production and that our land is going to be there year in and year out, generation after generation, to produce and continue to produce food for ourselves, for Canadians, and for a hungry world. Yes, it's a tremendous challenge to the people of Alberta, and I think it's a challenge we should accept.

If anyone decries money from the Alberta heritage fund being used for increased production in this province, I will certainly be very, very disappointed, because it shows a lack of vision and a lack of thought of what our responsibilities are in a world with an increasing population and a reduction in the production of food. There are other items too, other sources of energy. I think we have to make sure that when oil and gas are depleted there are other sources left.

What better use could be made of some portion of the Alberta heritage trust fund [than] to make sure the energy that's going to be depleted is replaced by one of the new forms of energy? This isn't a far- fetched idea. Research is now going on into these things and I think it should be continued. We should make sure we're going to have revenue from resources and industries, and jobs for our people, generation after generation. Here's a tremendous challenge and a tremendous opportunity to do that with funds the government has set aside in the Alberta heritage trust fund.

I think the Alberta heritage trust fund is a splendid thing. I think, when the history of the present government is written, in whatever period of time that is in the future, what it does with the Alberta heritage trust fund will be one of the items put high up on the credit side of the ledger or low down on the debit side. With the items we hear mentioned now, and which have been mentioned by the government, I think it's going to be high on the credit side. There are one or two other items I'd like to mention with regard to fixed-income people. I'm not referring now to the Alberta heritage trust fund.

At one of the meetings where there were some 35 people from my constituency, we had a chance for everybody to have his say, as we try to in our public meetings when they are small. Just as a check, I said, if you were the premier of the province, how would you spend the money from the Alberta heritage trust fund? I was amazed, because out of the 35 people I got 37 suggestions, I think. But almost every one of them, not all, was dealing with something that would be using the money, and it would be used and gone.

I pointed out to them afterward, in trying to sum up the thing, that if we used the money that way, how were we going to do what they themselves agreed to a few minutes earlier in the meeting: give some of the benefits from this resource to future generations. If we used it all for building roads right now, that would give some benefit to future generations, but in a limited way. If we used it for policing, public welfare, or a dozen other things which they mentioned -- routine things that are presently in the budget -- then, of course, there would be none left for future generations at all.

Of course, that is a premise, I think, that we have to build the Alberta heritage trust fund on. So I’m not including people on fixed incomes in the Alberta heritage trust fund. I think that's a responsibility of us who are here now with everyday revenue: to make sure that those people have an opportunity to live. I think there's some responsibility on the part of the federal government too, in this regard. Some of those who are having a difficult time are veterans, people who left part of their lives on the battlefields of the world and today are eking out a living.

They are the responsibility of the federal government. But I'm not so sure that we, in Alberta, shouldn't be spending some of the benefits from our everyday revenues on the veterans who are on fixed incomes, because they

May 23, 1975 ALBERTA HANSARD 147 are Alberta citizens too; senior citizens; the handicapped people, who are handicapped mentally and physically. As a member of the Joint Handicapped/MLA Committee -- on which there are three cabinet ministers, the hon. Member for Spirit River-Fairview, and myself -- one of the things that impressed me with the people in wheelchairs who came to those meetings was that I was always amazed at their cheerfulness and how they greeted you. They weren't sorry for themselves. But one of the things that impressed me the most was: how can we help ourselves?

How can the government help us to help ourselves? They don't want a handout. They want jobs. They want to be able to live as normal people. They don't want people to be sorry for them. They want a chance to live as normal everyday citizens. I think that's an important item. If we can help them to help themselves in transportation, in education -- a number of them have gone to university and secured degrees . . . It appears, Mr. Speaker, my time is up, so I'll close. MR. BATIUK: Mr. Speaker, at the outset I would like to congratulate you on your re- election for another term as Speaker.

I think your past performance is the reason you were the unanimous choice. Looking at the fact that there has been a cabinet reshuffle and you are one who is holding your position, I think you must feel very proud. I would like to congratulate the mover and the seconder of the Speech from the Throne. I think they have made a real good presentation. Mr. Speaker, I rose to participate in this debate with some hesitation. It is just slightly over three months ago that I participated in one. However, I felt that I have a very, very important constituency.

There are a number of new members and they should know something about it. I hope that I may inform them through my debate. Just in case I don't, maybe I will at least have the chance to amuse them. Mr. Speaker, why I referred to the Vegreville constituency as exceptionally important, and more important than I even anticipated until the recent election, was the interest that one political party had in the Vegreville constituency. I was indeed amazed when I saw people from Ontario and Saskatchewan come to campaign in the Vegreville constituency.

I was even more amazed when a professor of the university took time off to go and walk from door to door. I sort of wondered what could be happening. Many of my colleagues telephoned me and asked me whether I had any problems. They referred to clippings in the paper where it stated that the leader of the third largest party in Alberta made a statement that the Conservative candidate from the Vegreville constituency is vulnerable and shaky. However, Mr.

Speaker, after the election, when I reviewed the election results of the entire province, I wonder who the shaky and vulnerable one was, the one who made the majority of 1,400, or the one who was re-elected with a handful of votes? I really feel that one of the reasons they went so strongly for the Vegreville constituency was because in the late 1950s there were two socialist representatives in the Province of Alberta, and one was from Vegreville. However, the people of the constituency realized their mistake. They were sure that they weren't going to make the same one.

However, I think the reason they made that mistake the first time was that a very fine person ran on the socialist ticket. He was a fine man, a good character. However, he too, by the time the first term was over, realized that he made a mistake -- not that he went into politics, because I think he would have been an [inaudible] politician -- but he made the the wrong party. Mr. Speaker, the Vegreville constituency hasn't totally mistake of joining recovered from the consequences they suffered when they went into that area. Mr.

Speaker, the Vegreville constituency is located in a really good geographical area between Edmonton and Lloydminster, a really rich agricultural area. The number of Master Farmers selected from the region over the past years is an indication of the dedication and hard work many people have put into the agricultural industry. Despite the weather conditions, flooding of the Vermilion River, the Solonetzic soils, which sometimes seem to be a hindrance to agriculture, this was not the case. Many have been successful farmers. Mr.

Speaker, it's not only farmers who are successful; there are many others from the constituency. If one only goes to the Baker Clinic here in Edmonton to look over the number of highly specialized medical practitioners, one would notice that there are a number who have been born and raised in the Vegreville constituency. A leading child psychiatrist in San Francisco was born and raised in the Vegreville constituency. I wouldn't want to stop just at that. What about many political leaders? It's very worth while to mention today that Hairy Hill, a small community in my constituency, is the place the hon.

Minister of Housing was torn and raised. I think he's made a real contribution., Just a few miles away from there is the town of Two Hills, where another colleague of mine was born and raised. He was the principal of the school in Two Hills just a few years ago -- the present Minister of Advanced Education. Another colleague of mine, the hon. Member for Edmonton Beverly, was born in Vegreville and was raised in the Vegreville constituency. We'll go even further than that. The mother of the hon. Minister of Education was born, raised, and went to school in my own home town of Mundare.

The Minister of Education is the offspring. AN HON. MEMBER: Spring off. MR. BATIUK: Mr. Speaker, even though I was several grades below the minister's mother, it was not because of choice, or because of capabilities, it was because of age. Not only have we brought up a lot of good political people in the provincial government, but what about local government? The mayor of the Town of Two Hills is

148 ALBERTA HANSARD May 23, 1975 serving his thirty-fourth consecutive year as the mayor of Two Hills. He has been re- elected every time by acclamation. When I checked with the department, this is a record in Alberta. Just recently when the Minister of Labour was speaking to a crowd, he referred to the mayor -- he has been there such a long time that when he was first elected there was only one hill. There are many other people in the constituency who, I think, deserve to be mentioned. Yesterday my colleague here from Banff pushed a Journal over, and he says: is it Ukrainian day in Vegreville today?

I look in yesterday's headlines and there, sure enough, are pictures of several Ukrainian farmers seeding in the Vegreville area. Well, Mr. Speaker, yesterday was not Ukrainian day in Vegreville; it's going to be at the end of June. That's when there's going to be a showcase of Ukrainian culture, the last weekend in June. The Minister of Culture attended the first annual one last year. He was so impressed, he told me a few days ago, that he has committed himself to go again, even if he is not invited.

I feel he may be invited, but just in case he or any other member isn't, I take this privilege of inviting you all to come -- whoever is interested -- to see a fine performance. What I noticed in the paper that really impressed me, as I said, is there were a lot of other people -- here is a two-line sentence that a man northeast of Tofield, which is in my constituency, at age 75 still pulls harrows. That really surprised me. Farming for many years, the hardest I've ever worked was when I walked behind harrows, and horses pulled them. But this time it seems the farmer is pulling them and I'm going check into it.

I told you about the professional people, the doctors, and others in my constituency. I might as well tell you that I had a minister in my constituency at one time who performed so many shotgun marriages he called his church the Winchester Cathedral. [laughter] Mr. Speaker, in my first throne speech debate in 1972 there were a number of issues I brought out. The biggest issue at that time was that I had eight communities in the constituency, a large one in the middle and smaller communities on the side, which should make it a very fine constituency. But the biggest problem was that there was no love among them.

One would try to get what he could from the other. I recall very well in 1972 a delegation came from one community and asked the former Minister of Agriculture for some financial assistance to be able to steal an industry from the neighboring town. I think the lecture they got that time, and during the course of the next few years -- I tried to do away with it. I must say this has been erased, and I feel that our constituency is improving because of that. One of the issues was Highway 16, a stretch standing for years and years unlooked at. Nothing was done. It was a narrow road. There was fatality after fatality.

Why, from the Saskatchewan border to British Columbia, was this particular area, a strip of 12 miles, left out? I know very well why this was done. As I mentioned, there was a political opposition in the late '50s. However, I'm glad this has been fixed. An award has already been given that the final hard surface is going to be done very shortly, so this road will be comparable to any other. However, I would like to bring to the attention of the Minister of Transportation that I am not going to put very much pressure, but there is a terrific amount of traffic. This is the Yellowhead Route.

I have been aware for the last few years that it's the second busiest highway in the province. When I went home last Friday, I had to follow a truck for 15 miles before I had a chance to pass him. The truck was going 45 miles an hour. There was a string of cars maybe half a mile behind. Occasionally the odd one would swerve out and pass on a hill or on a curve. It was just fortunate I didn't see any accidents. This is something for the minister to think about in the future.

If the traffic increases because of the Yellowhead Route, I think attention will have to be given that a four-lane highway will be needed there in time to come. I'm not going to put any pressure -- the people in the Vegreville constituency don't need it any more than in the others. I have noticed that secondary roads are improving and going ahead at a great pace. In 1959 the previous government promised the Town of Mundare a senior citizens lodge. Ive seen the letter telling them to provide a space for it. However, there were many promises made after that. The people provided space. They landscaped it.

The spruce trees they planted where the home was to be are already big enough to make lumber. However, it's going ahead. Our government has seen fit and the foundation is on. So I hope that by fall this place is going to be occupied and there is going to be a real acceptance by the people of the area. In our constituency five areas received agricultural grants to their societies. I think this has greatly improved the living in rural Alberta. I would like to go back now to the throne speech. I am very happy to see the assured income plan, the senior citizens rental rebate, and other community services going ahead.

During my walk from door to door during the election, I did not see a happier group of people than the senior citizens. Almost every last one said they were really satisfied with what they were getting. A few even mentioned that they are getting more money than they can actually spend. So I can see that almost all are very interested in our programs. I must say that maybe half a dozen of the senior citizens felt that maybe the province should be giving that Alberta income supplement of $10 to all senior citizens, without the test. However, they are all very happy. I am glad the income tax is going to be reduced.

This will take a good number of taxpayers off the rolls, probably even some MLAs who have no other income. The tax

May 23, 1975 ALBERTA HANSARD 149 reduction plan has been accepted very favorably. I think that despite the inflation, where everything is going up, the people have enjoyed the reduction in tax. I am very glad that agriculture stays as a very high priority. The net income of farmers has trebled over the last four years. It is significant that there are many more farmers enjoying their operations, particularly in my own area. I see how many families are moving into the rural areas.

I’ve noticed particularly that in the schools, school boards have to hire extra teachers in the middle of the year, because of improved enrolment. There is definitely a reverse trend. As I think I once stated in this House, I was a witness at the Jubilee Auditorium in 1965 when a former premier very bluntly told 2,000 people that within 10 years 85 per cent of the population would be living in the 2 metropolitan cities, and nothing would be done about it. I must say that there has been a reverse, and I think this is well under way.

Never before have farmers received assistance, whether it's for unharvested grain, floods, or anything. I think this has done very well. It’s good to praise the programs, but I would also like to make a recommendation in the agricultural field, and that is with the Agricultural Development Corporation. I hope another look is taken. When this was brought in a couple of years ago, I was of the opinion that the intention was to help the smaller farmers get established. Things have changed. I'm sure that even the minister isn't aware whether it's just certain people in the corporation.

But already it's coming to that, that only those who are a bit bigger can qualify if they want to get bigger. I think a strong look will have to be taken in this direction. Social assistance is quite a concern in my constituency. Individuals, from time to time, bring out that there are people abusing it, and no doubt they are. However, I can agree, if a better check could be made it would be appreciated. On the other hand, there are people who, because of health or some other reason, must rely on social assistance. Many times I wonder if it's not a little too little.

I feel if a person is disabled or for other reasons cannot work, he should be a recipient of an award much like the senior citizen. Another area I would like to bring out -- even though the Minister of Health and Social Services isn't here -- is the bureau of vital statistics. In the April 30 issue, on page 965 and the 4 pages after that, there are 62 applications for a change of name. When I looked through each and every one of them, I found that 32 of the 62 people are asking for a change of name because of a minor misspelling. I know this is not the fault of these individuals.

Somebody not very knowledgeable was a registrar many years ago. I, myself, went lately to the bureau of vital statistics to get my birth certificate. Sure enough, my father's family name is spelled different from mine, my wife's name also. You know, Ukrainian names are sometimes hard to spell, but her first name, Rose, is misspelled. It's coming to the point that half the people in the Province of Alberta will have to go through this long legal procedure of having the name changed. I'm just wondering if it wouldn't somehow be possible to have that changed, probably by a declaration.

I know it's a real problem, it's costly and a lot of bother. Mr. Speaker, I'm glad there is a new department especially for recreation, parks, and wildlife. I was sort of amazed when the other day one of my colleagues said he hoped that during his time in office he would get three provincial parks. Well, the best of luck to him. However, in my constituency I don't have any provincial parks. For the last three years I have been trying to get one in the neighboring constituency of St. Paul so the people in my constituency could take advantage of it.

However, I think the reason for this was that the person who made the decision, that this place is not suitable for a provincial park, is the one who made that decision 20 years ago. I feel the people of this province wanted a change. They showed it in the elections in '71 and '75. I think if there are any department heads who feel they don't want to change their ways, I'm sure they are not permanent fixtures and could be replaced. The particular park I'm interested in is Lac Sante, a lake seven miles long, half a mile wide, and one hundred and sixty feet deep.

At present it provides a lot of recreation, but it needs upgrading. I would ask the hon. minister to make it a point someday to come out to Two Hills and have a good look at it. I'm sure if you did, your decision would change at once. Mr. Speaker, something very important has cropped up. I know it's going to be brought before our government, before our cabinet. In 1974 there were a lot of century celebrations giving recognition to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. I'm very proud of it. I've attended every function there was that I had a chance to, whether in my constituency or elsewhere.

I think the RCMP deserves the recognition they got for bringing law and order to this province. However, 1976 is going to mark the golden anniversary of the Royal Canadian Legion in Canada. Already the Royal Canadian Legion from Vegreville has intimated to me -- they sent me a brief which I will present to the right places -- that they are planning to establish a project. They have a considerable amount of money, but they will need assistance. I think that requests such as this are going to come from many places in Alberta.

I would hope that the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, when in Ottawa, could get together and maybe jointly . . . Some funds should be available this year for the '76 celebration. Particularly I think this is giving recognition to many people who joined the forces, who have sacrificed their lives, who took that possibility of losing their lives. So once again, as I say, I would really want to see something done in that area.

150 ALBERTA HANSARD May 23, 1975 Mr. Speaker, in my election, the only two issues I brought up were the heritage trust fund and our natural resources policies. I'm glad there will be an outline of the heritage trust in the fall sittings. Mr. Speaker, the electors in the Vegreville constituency endorsed the concept of the heritage trust fund. No doubt, our province is wealthy, and things look rosy for the future. But what would happen and what will happen when the wells go dry? Are our future generations going to enjoy the same level of living as we are?

The only way it could [inaudible] was whether those resources belong to the present generation, those who are developing them, or to who? I think my constituents have accepted well the fact that the natural resources belong to our posterity and our future generations, to our children, to those who are going to school, those who are going to enter, and those who are yet unborn. I feel that with these programs this, the heritage trust, is going to do everything it can. Two issues already that I am very proud of are the irrigation project that is now going to be carried out to $200 million.

Just how it's going to be carried out probably we won’t see the policy until fall. But I still feel this will not be done in one year. It will probably take 10 years, and $200 million spread over 10 years. I think that $200 million will be earning its share for that $200 million in our irrigation. At the end of 10 years, the money will still be there. It's no different with housing. I feel that every Albertan should have the privilege of owning his home if he so desires.

But at present, there is no way that any man on a modest income, with a wife and family to support, can think of buying a home and paying interest. This $200 million will provide this opportunity for them, and at the same time, even though the interest will be subsidized, will be coming back to the heritage trust. I wouldn't be surprised if that $200 million, inside of 20 or 25 years, will be $500 million. So I think the concept is just as it should be. People in my constituency have accepted it well. Mr.

Speaker, the leader, as I mentioned, of the third largest political party said there are a lonely six in the opposition. I must say that I do not accept that there are six. One of the hon. members, even though he was a veteran of a political party for 35 years, saw the light, and that is why he left, because he felt that anything done, whether you are in the opposition or with the government, should be done in the interests of the province. As I listened to him today, that is exactly what he said. I am glad to hear his criticisms. But it's not the purpose of a government to sit and oppose all the time. Mr.

Speaker, my time is just a little over, but I'm glad you didn't ask me to sit. [laughter ] I would like to say at this time that I really appreciated the co-operation of the former cabinet. With their reshuffle, I know things are going to dilly a little bit, but I look forward to working with them. At the same time, I must [express] my real thanks to the hon. member from Calgary who was the former Minister of Industry and Commerce. I hope he reads it in Hansard. I think he did very well. I think he's done a lot, and I'm sure he's going to remain one of my favorite people in this government.

Also, as I see my time is up, even though the throne speech was a little shorter than usual, I hope I will be able to participate in the budget debate if it's worth while. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: May the hon. Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs revert to the introduction of visitors? HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. head: INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS (reversion) MR. HARLE: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker and members. It is indeed an honor to be able to introduce to you, sir, and to the members of the Assembly some 63 students from the Stettler Elementary School representing the safety patrols.

They are accompanied by Mr. David Seibel, Mrs. Terry Snodgrass, Mr. Bob Rumberger, Mr. Cor Van Ter Mey and Mr. Hal Wittun, who is the representative of the Alberta Motor Association in Red Deer. I would ask that they please stand and be welcomed by the Assembly. head: CONSIDERATION OF HIS HONOR THE LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR'S SPEECH (continued) MR. R. SPEAKER: Mr. Speaker, it gives me pleasure to take

part in this debate. I'd like, first of all, to congratulate you on your election to your office, and certainly congratulate the deputy speaker and extend him best wishes in his new responsibilities. I believe as a newly elected member, after 12 years of serving in the Legislature, that one of the greatest responsibilities I've always felt is to my constituents. I felt that I would take the opportunity during my remarks today to raise seven or eight items

May 23, 1975 ALBERTA HANSARD 151 from my constituency that I felt are very relevant, and certainly hope I can suggest one or two new policies that the government would consider at this time. I feel, as a member of the Legislature and specifically as a member of the opposition, that I do have a very great responsibility to my constituents. I must give notice to the Premier and the government that one of the things I feel very responsible for is to deal objectively and as responsibly as I can on each and every item that is raised in my constituency, and attempt in all manner not to do it on a political basis.

However, even saying that, there are times when that technique has to be brought to tear, if you feel strongly about a particular issue. I also feel, Mr. Speaker, that in my role as a member of the opposition there are items, there are problems, there are concerns that must be raised, and raised for the good and the interest of Albertans. At times these items may seem to be embarrassing. At times they may seem to create a lot of problems that are unnecessary. But certainly, in my responsibility in this position, I will often, I'm sure, in the next three to four years feel obligated to do just that.

During the recent election and prior to it, also in the past 12 years, I've had the opportunity to travel to many doors in my constituency. However, I must say that in this election I must have gone to at least 3,000 doors and had 400 to 500 people actively working for the 39 days. Certainly, one of the things that came out of that particular exercise was my being re-elected to this particular position.

But secondly, and even more important, was that I had found that a number of the very, very grass-roots issues that concern people only come to light when you go door to door or speak to people on a face- to-face basis. I think, as a member of the Legislature, if I can pass on any type of experience, that one of the things we must take on as a responsibility is to attempt to do that in every possible way. Even as ministers of government, travelling throughout the province is a very important thing.

But access to the general public in those travels is even more important so that face-to-face discussion with just the common man on the street can often take place. What are some of the areas that are concerns in my constituency? I believe at this time one of the very priority items is with regard to irrigation. The other day, the minister tabled a policy position in the Assembly, some guidelines and policies as to how moneys will be spent and allocated in the next 10 years. On the last page of the pamphlet, it is indicated that $110 million would be spent for provincial capital funds for headworks.

It also indicates that $40 million would be spent on the rehabilitation of works in existing districts over the next 10 years. I think this is where my concern and the concern in my constituency lies. If it means that the $40 million is available to the districts, so that the districts can establish priorities and plans to eliminate seepage, to put in better delivery systems within the districts, then certainly I am in full support of that allocation of money.

If it means the money is to be spent through the Department of Agriculture on works leading up to the districts, or putting in main canals, that's important, and that is a provincial responsibility. But we must have a large sum of money available -- I've suggested at an earlier date through long-term low-interest loans directly available to the districts -- so they can do the rehabilitation of these specific areas. We have had, for example, the Lethbridge northern project, where a group of farmers, along with the district, rehabilitated a seepage area that had been under alkali for a number of years.

Within two years, because of the rehabilitation within the district, they were able to recoup the capital investment they had made by planting and seeding excellent crops. This is the kind of thing that I hope will be made available to the district. I hope, in the heritage fund, that we can consider anywhere -- we suggested during the campaign $200 million -- available to the districts so they could draw on the money and use it as they saw fit to rehabilitate the districts. I certainly hope that the new minister will consider that, so we can have a better understanding of what this $40 million really means.

I would like to say to the minister that I have had very good feedback on his recent trip to the south, in that I believe they placed this particular concern before him and he is considering it at the present time. To me, that is a very, very important concern at the present time. The second item that I'd like to touch on, and just very briefly, and compliment the new Minister of Transportation -- I think that's a good way to start the four years of this legislative session. Later we can get into more serious debate.

One concern that I had just prior to the election -- I understand it's been solved since -- is that in our secondary road program, there were a number of roads that just had to be built. The counties and municipalities would go ahead and build on their own, and the province subsidized them 75 per cent. The minister, I understand, has increased that to 100 per cent reimbursement to the local counties and municipalities.

I think that's a good idea, because what was happening was the municipalities that used their own initiative and knew that the work had to be done, spent their own money and sacrificed other projects in the area to get secondary routes completed, later on lost out on the secondary road grant of 100 per cent from the government. I felt that that just wasn't fair, and I certainly want to congratulate the new minister for taking that in hand. The third item is rural schools. I'd like to make some compliments to the former Minister of Education with regard to this matter.

In the town of Milo in my constituency, the residents, through the Home and School, were much concerned that within three years, because of population decline, the school would be closed to the present, I believe, one

152 ALBERTA HANSARD May 23, 1975 to eight system. The Home and School put a brief together and made a request of the Minister of Education at that time to implement a pilot project to look at various ways to maintain some of the small schools. I would like to say that the former minister, Mr. Hyndman, appointed a co-ordinator who has met with the group at Milo.

The group at the present time is planning some new approaches: one, they're looking at some new approaches to financing; two, they're looking at new approaches by grouping the students in various manners; three, they're talking about an ungraded system that they would like to try; and they are exploring two or three other methods. At the present time they're making a submission to the department for moneys to look at some of the projects that are going on in the province.

It is through this kind of initiative, where a local community decided it had a problem, looked at some solutions, and came to government to solve that particular problem . . . At the present time, if there is an answer to this small school problem, I'm sure this group through its initiative will certainly make some advancement in the area. As an MLA in a situation such as this, I see my role as facilitating and communicating between the community, the group, the minister, and government. Certainly, in the next three to four years, as I represent people in my area, that will be my continued effort and intent.

But I can see good things coming out of a move like that. And really, that's what the democratic process is all about as far as I'm concerned. I would like to thank the minister for his co-operation on that particular item. The next item I would like to cover is with regard to Agricultural Development Corporation loans, focussing on two areas. I want to say that in my constituency we have had a large number of loans, and we have helped a number of young farmers get into the farming business.

They have some terrific capital and repayment responsibilities ahead of them, but that's part of the gamble I think we have to take at this point in time. There are 2 areas that I would like the new minister to examine. I've had 1 or 5 examples brought to my attention within the last 4 or 5 weeks. The first example is where we have a young married couple, the fellow may be 25, 26, or 28 years of age. He's been away from home and out on his own, maybe earning wages, for 5 or 6 years. This new family is independent; maybe they have 1 or 2 children.

On application to the Agricultural Development Corporation, the Corporation has requested that this son go back to his father to get collateral for the loan. The father says, look, the son is on his own. I've got enough responsbilities. I don't want to go into that large a debt, or have that indebtedness on my property at this time. I just won't go along with the loan. Well, what happens is, we have this young farmer saying, I can't get help. I don't want to put that burden on my father. I'll forget it. There is discouragement at that point. Now, that's a very difficult policy to administer.

There's a judgment factor involved, I understand. But it is a problem and there are two or three examples, situations that I have faced as a member of the Legislature, that I want to bring to the attention of the minister. The second item is where a young person wishes to get into farming, but at the same time he wants to continue other employment. Let me give an example. In one of my towns, a young fellow has been working with his father in a garage. The father is near retirement, around 64 or 65, and would like to sell the garage.

At the point in time when he sells it or terminates his ownership, the son is on his own in the community. Now he has two choices: one, getting another job in the community, maybe continuing with the garage, he doesn't really want to buy the garage enterprise as such; or maybe moving to Calgary and getting employment there. But the other alternative that he had, and was attempting to work out this summer, was to buy a half-section of land through the Agricultural Development Corporation.

The corporation said, no, we can't see you making it as a farmer, you're not making it on the half-section, you've got a job, we can't support you. The other recommendation was, go back to the Farm Credit Corporation, they may have a program. I guess they are working on a program -- it hasn't come into effect -- to look at a problem such as this. I'd like the minister to review that particular concern. Next, with regard to recreation capital grants, over the past three or four years the former Minister of Agriculture made a number of agricultural society grants to various communities in the province.

A program of $10 per capita to communities over the next 10 years was announced. Where the problem now exists is the operational area. He all recognize that. I'm sure that, as members of the Legislature, in the next year or two we are going to have a terrific request upon us to get into giving grants to the local level to operate these various facilities. That's one of the problems. But there's also another one with regard to the $10 per capita grant over the next 10 years. Let me give you the example of the community of Carmangay.

It has a small population and would like to build a community centre or add to the school gymnasium they use as a community centre. But they know if they add to it, the tax base just cannot bring in the operational money. So the request they have made to me -- and I've had other communities do this too -- is: is there any way we can look at this $10 per capita grant to be part operational and

part capital, and should we consider that at this particular time. Because if they spend it all on a capital development, there's just no way they're going to run it or operate it in the next years ahead. I think that's a problem we, as legislators, should discuss. The next area is with regard to provincial parks, and I've made comments on this in earlier sessions of the Legislature. I've felt that we should establish a classification system for provincial parks. At the present time, our emphasis is on developing very sophisticated fully-equipped provincial parks. At the other end we have campsites

May 23, 1975 ALBERTA HANSARD 153 established by the Department of Transportation. But in the middle we let the municipalities operate, and try to establish parks to meet the local needs. But I feel there should be another category in there. The Class A parks should be the parks as they are today. There should be a Class B type of park supported by the provincial government, and it should have minimal facilities.

I think there are four things that it would involve: (1) a restroom facility, (2) a camp table and kitchen, (3) a water facility, and (4) maybe one man with a truck and minimal equipment just to keep it clean. That is all a lot of people want in various areas. They don't want a sophisticated amount of equipment. I know the department's argument at an earlier date was that we can't go that way because then we get all this political pressure and push to