Manitoba Hansard — 27 April 2010 (Sitting 35B, 39th Legislature, 4th Session)

39-4-35b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Fourth Session - Thirty-Ninth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. LXII No. 35B - 1:30 p.m., Tuesday, April 27, 2010 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Ninth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLAN, Nancy, Hon. St. Vital N.D.P. ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson N.D.P. BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli N.D.P. BLADY, Sharon Kirkfield Park N.D.P. BLAIKIE, Bill, Hon. Elmwood N.D.P. BOROTSIK, Rick Brandon West P.C. BRAUN, Erna Rossmere N.D.P. BRICK, Marilyn St. Norbert N.D.P. BRIESE, Stuart Ste. Rose P.C. CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P. CULLEN, Cliff Turtle Mountain P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P.

DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside P.C. FAURSCHOU, David Portage la Prairie P.C. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach P.C. GRAYDON, Cliff Emerson P.C. HAWRANIK, Gerald Lac du Bonnet P.C. HICKES, George, Hon. Point Douglas N.D.P. HOWARD, Jennifer, Hon. Fort Rouge N.D.P. IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri, Hon. Fort Garry N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. JHA, Bidhu Radisson N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LAMOUREUX, Kevin Inkster Lib. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns N.D.P.

MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MARCELINO, Flor, Hon. Wellington N.D.P. MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McFADYEN, Hugh Fort Whyte P.C. McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon. Lord Roberts N.D.P. MELNICK, Christine, Hon. Riel N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East P.C. NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake N.D.P. OSWALD, Theresa, Hon. Seine River N.D.P. PEDERSEN, Blaine Carman P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. RONDEAU, Jim, Hon. Assiniboia N.D.P. ROWAT, Leanne Minnedosa P.C. SARAN, Mohinder The Maples N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield P.C. SELBY, Erin Southdale N.D.P. SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St.

Boniface N.D.P. STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon. Dauphin-Roblin N.D.P. SWAN, Andrew, Hon. Minto N.D.P. TAILLIEU, Mavis Morris P.C. WHITEHEAD, Frank The Pas N.D.P. WIEBE, Matt Concordia N.D.P. WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. Swan River N.D.P.

1437 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Tuesday, April 27, 2010 The House met at 1:30 p.m. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 28–The Drivers and Vehicles Amendment Act Hon. Andrew Swan (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Act): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Minister for Family Services and Consumer Affairs (Mr. Mackintosh), that Bill 28, The Drivers and Vehicles Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les conducteurs et les véhicules, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Swan: This bill will allow for the full disclosure of names and administrative actions taken by the Registrar of Motor Vehicles. These amendments will enable Manitoba Public Insurance to disclose administrative sanctions against vehicle dealers and salespeople, driver training schools and instructors, vehicle and parts recyclers, inspection station operators and qualified mechanics as part of this government's continued efforts to improve consumer protection in Manitoba. Mr.

Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Bill 29–The Advanced Education Administration Act and Amendments to The Council on Post-Secondary Education Act and The Education Administration Act Hon. Diane McGifford (Minister of Advanced Education and Literacy): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Labour and Immigration (Ms. Howard), that Bill 29, The Advanced Education Administration Act and Amendments to The Council on Post-Secondary Education Act and The Education Administration Act;

Loi sur l'administration de l'enseignement postsecondaire et modifications concernant la

Loi sur le Conseil de l'enseignement postsecondaire et la

Loi sur l'administration scolaire, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Ms. McGifford: This bill is important for post-secondary education and adult learning in Manitoba. It establishes the system-wide mandate of the minister and ensures that the minister and the Council on Post-Secondary Education have the appropriate authorities to collect information, including student information, to carry out our responsibilities. In addition, the bill includes related amendments to the education administrative act. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Bill 221–The Domestic Violence Death Review Committee Act Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the member for River East (Mrs. Mitchelson), that Bill 221, The Domestic Violence Death Review Committee Act, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mrs. Driedger: This bill establishes the domestic violence death review committee.

This multidisciplinary committee will review the circumstances surrounding deaths that occur as a result of domestic violence and make recommendations to help prevent future deaths in similar circumstances. All reports made by the review committee are to be provided to the designated minister, tabled in the Legislature and made public by posting on the government's Web site. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] PETITIONS Waste-Water Ejector Systems Mr.

Larry Maguire (Arthur-Virden): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly, Mr. Speaker. And these are the reasons for this petition: Manitobans are deeply committed to protecting the environment, and they want to be assured that provincial environmental policies are based on sound science. In early 2009 the provincial government announced that it was reviewing the Onsite

1438 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2010 Wastewater Management Systems Regulation under The Environment Act. Affected Manitobans, including property owners and municipal governments, provided considerable feedback to the provincial government on the impact of the proposed changes, only to have their input ignored. The updated regulation includes a prohibition on the installation of new waste-water ejectors and the elimination of existing waste-water ejectors at the time of any property transfer.

Questions have been raised about the lack of scientific basis for these changes, as a Manitoba Conservation official stated in the October 8th, 2009, edition of the Manitoba Co-operator, quote: "Have we done a specific study? No." End quote. These regulatory changes will have a significant financial impact on all affected Manitobans.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the Minister of Conservation to consider immediately placing the recent changes to the Onsite Wastewater Management Systems Regulation under The Environment Act on hold until such time that a review can take place to ensure that they are based on sound science. To request the Minister of Conservation to consider implementing the prohibition on waste-water ejector systems on a case-by-case basis as determined by environmental need in ecologically sensitive areas.

To request the Minister of Conservation to consider offering financial incentives to help affected Manitoba property owners adapt to these regulatory changes. And this petition is signed by R. Henuset, J. Williamson, D. Cook and many, many others. Mr. Speaker: In accordance with our rule 132(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House. Ophthalmology Services–Swan River Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

These are the reasons for this petition: The Swan Valley region has a high population of seniors and a very high incidence of diabetes. Ever year, hundreds of patients from the Swan Valley region must travel to distant communities for cataract surgery and additional pre-operative and post-operative appointments. These patients, many of whom are sent as far away as Saskatchewan, need to travel with an escort who must take time off work to drive the patient to his or her appointments without any compensation. Patients who cannot endure this expense and hardship are unable to have the necessary treatment.

The community has located an ophthalmologist who would like to practise in Swan River. The local Lions Club has provided funds for the necessary equipment, and the Swan River Valley hospital has space to accommodate this service. The Minister of Health has told the Town of Swan River that it has in sufficient infrastructure and patient volumes to sup port a cataract surgery program; however, residents of the region strongly disagree.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the Minister of Health to consider rethinking her refusal to allow an ophthalmologist to practise in Swan River and to consider working with the community to provide this service without further delay. And this is signed by V. Bonyai, J. Chernyk, L. Seib and many, many others, Mr. Speaker. Medical Clinic in Weston and Brooklands Area Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba.

The background to this petition is as follows: Community-based medical clinics provide a valuable health-care service. The closure of the Westbrook Medical Clinic has left both Weston and Brooklands without a community-based medical clinic.

April 27, 2010 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1439 We petition the Legislative Assembly as follows: To urge the provincial government to consider how important it is to have a medical clinic located in the Weston and Brooklands area. Mr. Speaker, this is signed by D. Blackburn, M. Bittern and A.W. Pruden and many, many other fine Manitobans. Thank you. Waste-Water Ejector Systems Mr. Ralph Eichler (Lakeside): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba.

These are the reasons for this petition: Manitobans are deeply committed to protecting the environment, and they want to be assured the provincial environmental policies are based on sound science. In early 2009, the provincial government announced that it was reviewing the Onsite Wastewater Management Systems Regulation under the environmental act. Affected Manitobans, including property owners and municipal governments, provided considerable feedback to the provincial government on the impact of proposed changes, only to have their input ignored.

The updated regulation includes a prohibition on the installation of new waste-water ejectors and the elimination of existing waste-water ejectors at a time of any property transfer. Questions have been raised about the lack of scientific basis for these changes, as a Manitoba Conservation official stated in the October 8th, 2009, edition of the Manitoba Co-operator, we have done a specific study? No. These regulatory changes will have a significant impact–financial impact on all affected Manitobans.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: * (13:40) To request the Minister of Conservation to consider immediately placing the recent changes on the Onsite Wastewater Management Systems Regulation under the environmental act on hold until such time a review can take place to ensure that they have based on sound science. To request the Minister of Conservation to consider implementing the prohibition of waste-water ejector systems on a case-by-case basis as determined by the environmental need in ecological sensitive areas.

To request the Minister of Conservation to consider offering financial incentives to help affected Manitoba property owners adapt to these regulatory changes. Submitted on behalf of M. Janzen, G. Penner, M. Green and many other fine Manitobans. Education Funding Mr. Rick Borotsik (Brandon West): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. These are the reasons for this petition: Historically, the Province of Manitoba has received funding for educati on by the assessment of property that generates taxes.

This unfair tax is only applied to selected property owners in certain areas and confines, including but not limited to commercial property owners. Property-based school tax is becoming an ever-increasing burden without acknowledging the commercial property owner's income or owner's ability to pay. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the Minister of Education, Citizenship and Youth consider removing education funding by school tax or education levies from all property in Manitoba, including commercial property.

To request that the Minister of Education, Citizenship and Youth consider finding a more equitable method of funding education, such as general revenue, following the constitutional funding of education by the Province of Manitoba. This petition, Mr. Speaker, is signed by V. Hunter, J. Garsom and W. Williamson and many other fine Manitobans. Mount Agassiz Ski Area Mr. Stuart Briese (Ste. Rose): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba.

1440 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2010 These are the reasons for this petition: For several decades, the Mount Agassiz Ski area, home to the highest vertical between Thunder Bay and the Rocky Mountains, was a popular skiing and snowboarding destination for Manitobans and visitors alike. The operations of Mount Agassiz Ski area were very important to the local economy, not only creating jobs, but also generating sales of goods and services at area businesses.

In addition, a thriving rural economy generates tax revenues that help to pay for core provincial government services a nd infrastructure which benefits all Manitobans. Although the ski facility closed in 2000, there remains strong interest in seeing it reopened and Parks Canada has committed to conducting a feasibility study with respect to the Agassiz site and future opportunities in the area.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the appropriate ministers of the provincial government to consider outlining to Parks Canada the importance that a viable recreation facility in the Mount Aga ssiz area would play in the local and provincial economies. And to request that the appropriate members– ministers of the provincial government consider working with all stakeholders, including Parks Canada, to help develop a plan for a viable, multiseason recreation facility in the Mount Agassiz area of Manitoba. And this petition is signed by K. Gilmore, N. Lesanich and E.

Taylor and many, many other fine Manitobans. Bipole III Mr. Blaine Pedersen (Carman): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. Background to this petition is as follows: Manitoba Hydro has been forced by the NDP government to construct its next high-voltage direct transmission line, Bipole III, down the west side of Manitoba, a decision for which the NDP government has not been able to provide any logical justification.

Since this will cost Manitoba ratepayers at least 640 million more than the east-side route, and given that the Province of Manitoba is facing its largest deficit on record, the burden of this extra cost could not come at a worse time. Between 2002 and 2009 electricity rates increased by 16 percent, and Manitoba Hydro has filed a request for further rate increases totalling 6 percent over the next two years. A western Bipole III route will invariable lead to more rate increases.

In addition to being cheaper, an east-side route would be hundreds of kilometres shorter and would be more reliable than a west-side route. West-side residents have not been adequately consulted and have identified serious concerns with the proposed line. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to consider proceeding the cheaper, shorter and more logical east-side route, subject to necessary regulatory approvals, to save ratepayers hundreds of millions of dollars during these challenging economic times. And this petition is signed by P. Saunders, E.

Cummer, R. Cummer and many, many more fine Manitobans. TABLING OF REPORTS Hon. Jennifer Howard (Minister of Labour and Immigration): Mr. Speaker, it's my pleasure to table the Supplementary Information for Manitoba Labour and Immigration. Hon. Jennifer Howard (Minister charged with the administration of The Workers Compensation Act): I'd also like to table the 2009 Annual Report for the Workers Compensation Board of Manitoba. Hon.

Dave Chomiak (Minister of Innovation, Energy and Mines): Monsieur le président, je–c'est ma plaisir de donner les rapports de la Manitoba Innovation, Énergie et Mines de la 2002–2010 year fiscale. Merci. Translation Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to present the Supplementary Information for Legislative Review for the fiscal year 2010-2011. Thank you. Introduction of Guests Mr. Speaker: Prior to oral questions I'd like to draw the attention of honourable members to the public

April 27, 2010 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1441 gallery where we have with us from Milltown Academy, we have 10 grade 7 to 12 students under the direction of Mr. Ron Kleinsasser. This group is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Morris (Mrs. Taillieu). On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you all here today. ORAL QUESTIONS Probation Breaches Government Policy Review Mr. Hugh McFadyen (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr.

Speaker, we saw a report this morning after comments made by the government over the last week on the issues around probation services, a report this mo rning that throughout 2009, up to and including the early part of this year, there was a series of breakdowns within the system that ultimately resulted in a man being beaten in front of his girlfriend, her four-year-old son and a nine- month-old child. Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the Premier if he can indicate today whether he's satisfied that the probation system is working as well as it should be in light of this terrible breakdown. Hon.

Greg Selinger (Premier): This incident is one that's unacceptable to the public, it's unacceptable to this government and I'm sure it's unacceptable to every member of this Legislature. Clearly, when these kinds of things happen, the system can improve its ability to protect public safety and security, and that's what we expect them to do. And in a case where somebody has been required to wear an electronic monitoring device, we expect it to be put in place on that individual for the full period of the court order as required. Mr. McFadyen: Mr.

Speaker, there's a–there's no connection between what they say in the House and what is actually happening out around the province. He said last week in th e House four times that he was pleased with how things were going under his watch in probation services. He said that they were getting good results. He said they were getting positive results. He said twice that they were using best practices. He said twice that it was good policy. I want to ask the Premier: Will he today acknowledge that all of the statements he was making last week were wrong?

Will he say today that things are not working as they should be, he's not pleased with what's happening in the system, and will he go a step further, the step that we've been calling on him to take and that is issue a directive to probation services that there's a zero tolerance policy for high-risk offenders known to be in breach of court orders? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, this situation is clearly unacceptable. The results were tragic for the family involved, for the young children involved.

We do not believe this should be tolerated in our community, which is exactly why I said in my first answer where electronic monitoring device is required by court order, it should be implemented fully, without any exceptions, for the full period of the court order in order to ensure that that individual is monitored on a 24-7 basis. So the answer to the question is we believe court orders should be fully applied, as required, to ensure public safety and security, and we want that to happen in all cases, including very serious cases like the one at hand here. * (13:50) Mr. McFadyen: Mr.

Speaker, it is a step that he's completely repudiating today everything that he said last week, and that's one step in the right direction. But will he go the next step and confirm that they've directed probation services to put in place a zero tolerance policy for high -risk offenders that are known to be in breach of court orders, and will they release the data today to indicate how many people the department is aware of today who are in breach of court orders and yet remain free on the streets of Winnipeg and Manitoba? Mr. Selinger: Mr.

Speaker, as I indicated that the last time we had this discussion, resources are being reallocated to provide more monitoring and enforcement of court orders for high-risk offenders. This is an improvement. This improvement, clearly, in this case, was insufficient. The electronic monitoring device was not in place as it should have been. It's our view that there should be no exceptions. When a court order requires it, it should be in place, and if additional resources are needed in addition to electronic monitoring, they should also be put in place as well.

This is precisely why we have asked the chief of police, the head of probations and the head of prosecutions to come together to look at how to enforce court orders in a fashion that will further strengthen public safety and security. That's what we

1442 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2010 want for Manitobans. That 's what we expect for Manitobans, and that's what we are going to work to towards every single day. Probation Breaches Government Policy Review Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Last week we learned that it's NDP justice policy to not report breaches of high-risk offenders unless there are several consecutive breaches. Now we know that it's also NDP policy to not always apply court orders that have been put on an offender for a very good reason by a judge. Mr. Sp eaker, court orders are there for a reason. They're not a joke.

They're not an option. They're there to protect the public. Can this Minister of Justice not get his head around the fact that these court orders need to be executed, honoured and enforced, Mr. Speaker? Hon. Andrew Swan (Min ister of Justice and Attorney General): Well, Mr. Speaker, the member opposite is wrong in the facts. Probation services does report breaches when there are serious violations. That is their policy, and that's what they'll continue to do.

They will continue to monitor individuals, and high-risk offenders are given high priority and, as we've improved the system, are being given higher priority. In terms of what the Firs t Minister had to say, it is true that with respect to a recent report where there is an order by a court and probation services says that electronic monitoring is appropriate, it is true; time in custody should not change that order.

I've asked for a review to be conducted by department, and we will make sure that electronic monitoring is used the way that everyone in this House intends and hopes that it should be to improve public safety in this province, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Goertzen: Mr. Speaker, the NDP Department of Justice is under constant review under this weak government. They are weak on crime and nothing changes that fact.

Yesterday, the Minister of Justice acknowledged that in his department he has specific funds set aside so that probation officers can purchase treats for high-risk offenders such as baseball tickets, Slurpees, doughnuts, well, and that's all that he admitted to, whether–I'm sure, plenty more. In fact, he hasn't disclosed all of the items that probation officers are purch asing for these high-risk offenders, and the law enforcement sources indicate that there's plenty more, Mr. Speaker.

Instead of this NDP Justice Minister trying to become a baseball buddy or a Slurpee friend of a high-risk offender, why doesn't he finally stand up for the hard working families who each and every day are obeying the law and who don't want to become a victim, Mr. Speaker? Mr. Swan: Well, Mr. Speaker, let's talk about being tough on crime. Tough on crime is putting measures in place which have reduced auto theft by 75 percent in this province. It's at its lowest rate since 1992. Being tough on crime–although I'm not pleased to say so, Manitoba has th e second highest rate of youth incarceration in the country.

Our Crown attorneys, our police officers, our probations officials are tough on crime and are tough in the management of crime as well. You want to talk about being tough on crime? We are a leader at fighting organized crime and gangs in this province. We are tough in pushing the federal government for improvements in the Youth Criminal Justice Act. Manitoba has, for the last decade, led the league in calling on the federal government to keep improving this by being a strong voice, rallying other provinces around the national table to make sure that there are tough consequences for individuals who break the law.

That's how you're tough on crime, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Goertzen: Well, we all know that, unfortunately, we're the crime capital of Canada, and no wonder we're the Slurpee capital of Canada, because this minister is handing out Slurpees to high-risk offenders. He's handing out baseball tickets to high-risk offenders, he's handing out doughnuts, and law enforcement officials tell us that he's handing out far, far more th an that to high-risk car thieves and to high-risk offenders. No wonder–no wonder that high-risk offenders keep coming back into the NDP system of justice. It's like Disneyland.

It's the happiest place on earth there, Mr. Speaker. Slurpees, doughnuts, baseball tickets–it's time he stops trying to be a pal to every offender. It's time he stops trying to be their baseball buddy. Why won't he stand up for Manitobans who want a tough Minister of Justice, who want criminals behind bars, who want somebody who will say they'll stand up for the victims, not for the criminals, Mr. Speaker?

April 27, 2010 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1443 Mr. Swan: Mr. Speaker, I know there was a lot in the last answer that the member opposite didn't hear. I will repeat for the record that although–Mr. Speaker, although I'm not proud of the fact, Manitoba actually has the second highest rate of youth incarceration in the entire country. That is because of the efforts of our police. That's the effort of our Crowns. That's the effort of investments that our government is making.

If you want to talk about being tough on crime, it's about supporting our police, and this government has made unprecedented investments in police in Winnipeg and across the province. If you want to talk about being tough on crime, we support our Crown attorneys. We virtually doubled the prosecutions budget in the last 10 years so our Crown attorneys have the staff and the support to make sure they're seeking the toughest possible appropriate sentences when necessary. And we're being tough by improving our court system to make sure that there are meaningful penalties. That's how you're tough on crime, Mr.

Speaker. Probation Breaches Government Policy Review Mr. Hugh McFadyen (Leader of the Official Opposition): I see that they've had some media coaching since yesterday, Mr. Speaker, but no amount of media coaching or rhetoric are going to change the facts around their soft approach to crime, the gap between what they say in the House, what's happening in the community. I want to ask the Premier today: Why is it that his government gives out Slurpees and doughnuts to people in breach of probation orders when they should be enforcing those orders?

Why are they so afraid of our approach, a zero tolerance approach, Mr. Speaker? Will the Premier direct his Justice Minister, who is responsible for these issues–will he direct him today, if he won't do it willingly on his own, to implement a zero tolerance approach to people who are high-risk offenders and known today to be in breach of court orders? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition says talk is cheap, and I agree with that. We have over 200 additional police officers we have funded in our budgets since '99. We have over 48 new prosecutors we have funded since '99.

We have over 24 more probation officers that we have funded since '99. These ar e real commitments on the part of this government, and every one of those commitments has been voted against by the members opposite. That's where talk is cheap. They do not support the initiatives that we have put forward to increase the resources for public safety and security. We have; they haven't. That's the difference. Mr. McFadyen: Mr. Speaker, the former Crocus minister is wrong once again in terms of the information he's putting on the record. What we voted against was the NDP Slurpee slush fund, Mr. Speaker.

That's what we voted against. We voted against tax dollars going to doughnuts, because what we don't need are more sprinkles and icing out there. What we need is a government that is prepared to take a hard line when it comes to high-risk offenders known to be in breach of court orders. Why don't they put their money, Mr. Speaker, put their money where their mouth is–not Slurpees and doughnuts–put the money where their mouth is and bring in a zero tolerance policy today and back it up by releasing the data so Manitobans can know whether it's working? Mr. Selinger: Mr.

Speaker, that's exactly what we have done, put our money where our mouth is: 219 additional police officers, 48 additional prosecutors, 24 additional probation officers, additional measures in the law, additional resources in the community. Auto theft suppression resources have been added to to have a 75 percent reduc tion. We've taken concrete action, both on resources and on results. We brought–we were the second province to bring in electronic monitoring. We were the first province to bring in monitoring using GPS technology. This is a specific tragedy that we do not believe should happen in the community.

We also believe that when you use electronic monitoring as a condition of a court order, it should be fully applied. * (14:00) The members opposite only have rhetoric. They voted against every additional measure we have put in place, every single budg et, every single year. And now, they pretend they support these things. They have not supported it. The record is clear. We have acted; they have just talked.

1444 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2010 Mr. McFadyen: There's no dispute over their ability to waste money and to make announcements, Mr. Speaker. We're not disputing their ability to overspend. What we dispute is their ability to get results for the safety of Manitobans. That's where they've gone wrong. And we'll continue to vote against budgets that contain Slurpee slush funds, doughnuts, sprinkles and baseball tickets. And I want to ask the Premier today: Will he acknowledge that his budget of doughnut holes, of Timbits, of Slurpees and baseball tickets, is the wrong way to spend taxpayers' money?

The right way to do it is by enforcing the law, bring in a zero tolerance policy, and release the data so we can have a proper de bate about what's really going on versus the theoretical NDP justice system that his Justice Minister seems to like so much. Will he admit that they're wrong and it's time to start taking action after 11 years? Mr. Selinger: There's nothing theoretical about 219 additional police officers. Those are boots on the ground with well-trained people that are out there enforcing the laws and protecting the public. There's nothing theoretical about 48 additional prosecutors.

Those people are highly trained lawyers that are following and prosecuting the full extent of the law. There's nothing theoretical about 24 additional probation officers. Those are people that are out there monitoring, and now they are monitoring high-risk offenders with additional resources. There's nothing theoretical about electronic monitoring devices, nor is there about GPS technology. Now, as before, we insist that those devices, those resources, be used to the full extent of the law, and we insist that those things be followed through on as required by court conditions that are put on these offenders.

And, Mr . Speaker, those members voted against every single one of those additional resources for over 11 years. Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Public Utilities Board Information Request Mrs. Mavis Taillieu (Morris): Mr. Speaker, the Public Utilities Board has been concerned for five years now about the secrecy and lack of transparency at Manitoba Public Insurance. The PUB argues that in order to assure themselves that Autopac rates are set fairly, they need to know the financial situation at MPI.

MPI argues that it is none of their business and has gone as far as to say, and I quote: The PUB wants to delve into areas of our business that, in our opinion, are beyond rule setting, unquote. I want to ask the minister responsible: Does he support MPI's claim that they do not have to answer to the public even though they are a public corporation now that the PUB has taken this to court to ask for a legal opinion? Hon. Andrew Swan (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Act): The position of MPI is actually quite simple. MPI is a public corporation.

It carries on different kinds of activities. It carries on basic auto insurance, which is not competitive; they have a monopoly in Manitoba. MPI agrees entirely that it should be subject to whatever information the Public Utilities Board may require. MPI also carries on competitive lines of insurance, extension insurance, as it's called, and they are competing against other companies, who, I'm sure, would love to see the kind of information that those companies don't actually have to put on the record. It is a competitive line of insurance.

MPI has opposed providing all of the information the Public Utilities Board has sought. That matter, I suppose, will be determined by the court, but MPI's position is quite clear, Mr. Speaker. Mrs. Taillieu: MPI is a public company and the financials of all the areas in MPI are commingled, Mr. Speaker.

Last Tuesday, in this House, four days after the PUB filed an appeal with the court for a legal opinion on their ability to get information they deem necessary and relevant to setting Autopac rates, the minister continued to defend MPI's position, and he said, and I quote: This is not information that need be disclosed to the PUB. Mr. Speaker, treating seniors like cash cows, 53 percent increase in a ballooning bureaucracy, wasting millions on their pet project of enhanced driver's licence that no one wants, it's no wonder–it's no wonder that the minister wants to shield MPI from public scrutiny. But, Mr.

Speaker, what is going on at MPI that this government does not want the Public Utilities Board to know about? Why has he forced them to go for a legal opinion? Mr. Swan: Well, Mr. Speaker, if we want to talk about the efficiency of MPI, I am happy to do so anytime, anywhere.

April 27, 2010 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1445 The average across Canada–on average, auto insurance companies return 65 to 70 percent of all the premiums they take in as benefits for insured. I'm very pleased to see in Manitoba that number is 89 percent. MPI is providing great service for Manitobans. If individuals don't want to buy extended insurance, they have the right to buy from another company. There is competition, something I thought the members opposite always tell us that they are experts on talking about. Individuals have the right to buy that extended insurance.

It is a different marketplace, and MPI has maintained they do not need to provide all of the information sought by the PUB. Mrs. Taillieu: If the minister thinks all of that is so true, why won't he open the books at MPI? Mr. Speaker, the PUB has been trying to get MPI to open their books for many years and without success, because this government fosters a culture of secrecy. The PUB cannot order the issue of insurance rebates to Manitoba drivers because it cannot assure itself of the financial status of MPI. The PUB now has to seek help in the courts in order to do its job in overseeing basic premiums. Mr.

Speaker, why won't this minister simply exercise some leadership and ask MPI to comply with the PUB's request for transparency instead of– and forcing them to go to court? What is he hiding at MPI? Mr. Swan: Well, Mr. Speaker, it's a very short answer. MPI is not the only public auto insurance utility in Canada and, indeed, in the other provinces where there's a similar situation, those jurisdictions do not provide similar kinds of information to the Public Utilities Board. I wonder why the member opposite thinks things should somehow be different in the province of Manitoba.

Definitely, MPI is providing great service on its basic insurance. It is also providing great service on extended service. But people have the right–if they don't want to buy extended insurance from MPI, they don't have to. But the fact is the company is so efficient, they are doing very well. Again, MPI is return ing far more money–far more money–to insured here in Manitoba than any private insurance company, or for that matter, other public insurance companies. We have probably the best insurance jurisdiction here in Manitoba, and I'm quite proud of that fact, Mr. Speaker. Dr.

Larry Reynolds WRHA Contract Termination Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Mr. Speaker, this NDP government has botched the handling of Dr. Larry Reynolds's case from the get- go. First, they turfed him from his appointment as head of Family Medicine for speaking out about issues that concerned him and bothered him. This came years after intimidating him and trying to silence him. Then they violated his right to privacy by disclosing private details about his contract to the media.

Now the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority and the University of Manitoba are being censured by the Canadian Association of University Teachers, something that hasn't been done to any Canadian university in more than 30 years. Doctors and professors may now be actively discouraged from coming to Manitoba to work under this NDP government. This will have a devastating effect on patients in this province. So I would like to ask the Minister of Health: How could she have stood by and allowed this to happen? Hon.

Theresa Oswald (Minister of Health): I'd like to take this opportunity just to put some corrections on the record from that question. I can certainly– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Ms. Oswald: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Certainly, we know that the doctor in question had an employment arrangement with the WRHA and the University of Manitoba. There was a contract with a five-year period. The term ended and both of those positions were terminated by the WRHA and by the University of Manitoba.

We don't interfere with the hiring and firing decisions of the University of Manitoba. [interjection] I presume that that's what the members opposite did, based on their reaction to that, but we don't interfere with their hiring and firing decisions. I am informed, Mr. Speaker, that there were some serious concerns about his leadership issues, and so that contract was ended. * (14:10)

1446 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2010 Mrs. Driedger: Mr. Speaker, this Minister of Health and the NDP government have no problem interfering with RHAs, Crown corporations or anyone else out there if it suits them, but when it comes to exercising some leadership in a bad situation, this Minister of Health prefers to bury her head in the sand or go missing in action, like she did when Brian Sinclair died. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to quote–I would like to quote from the review of Dr.

Reynolds' case that was done by the Canadian association for university teachers, and I quote: It seems clear that the search process for a university head and WRHA medical director of family medicine was severely flawed and ended in failure. Dr. Larry Reynolds seems to have been subject to coercion. He was ultimately removed from this position without due process. End quote.

Coercion, no due process and now the distinction of being the only Canadian university in more than 30 years to be censured, can the Minister of Health tell us: Why is she being ignorant of what's going on, or is she incompetent, or is she both? Ms. Oswald: Well, that was cheerful. Certainly, I can say, Mr. Speaker, that the WRHA and the U of M entered into an arrangement with an individual. At the end of that five-year term, upon review, there were serious concerns about the leadership capabilities, and so that term was ended.

I can also say, to correct the record, that the Canadian Association of University Teachers is saying that they will consider censure in November, leaving opportunity for further discussions to go on among the parties to come to a resolution that's appropriate. So let's just be clear on that fact as well. And I would also say to the member that, yes, we're very interested in being involved with the university on matters like increasing the medical school spaces that they slashed during the 1990s. We went from 70; we're now at 110.

We do work with the University of Manitoba very enthusiastically, but on personnel matters, they can take care of that on their own, Mr. Speaker. Mrs. Driedger: Mr. Speaker, this report wouldn't have needed to be done if this whole issue hadn't been so mismanaged in this province. Mr. Speaker, the minister should know full well that Dr. Larry Reynolds is not the only doctor that has been forced out of Manitoba because of harassment and intimidation. Dr. David Grynspan, a pediatric pathologist was bullied. He was harassed and he was threatened when he came forward as a whistle-blower. He left Manitoba.

Now the WRHA is being censured by the Canadian Association of Un iversity Teachers, and if they don't correct this mess doctors will be encouraged to not come to this province. So I'd like to ask the Minister of Health to tell us why, in this province, doct ors are bullied, threatened and harassed when they speak up about problems in this health-care system. Why are their voices shut down by this government? Ms. Oswald: Well, Mr.

Speaker, while I would concede the point that the member opposite is an expert on bullying and threats, I would say to the member that, in the initial case she mentioned, an independent review was done of the pathologist by an independent team. She, of course, went out and assumed to know better than Dr. Sharon Macdonald, a highly respected doctor in the community. In this case there was a review of this doctor's leadership performance, and the contract was not renewed.

Again, I would reiterate that the Canadian Association of University Teachers has suggested they will consider censur e in November, leaving ample opportunity for this to be worked out. It's a personnel matter between the University of Manitoba, the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority. And I would suggest to the me mber, if this is such a terrible place to work, why have we had a net increase of physicians every year that we've been in office as opposed to the net decrease of doctors every year that they had their hands on the wheel? Tabor Home Project Status Mr. Peter Dyck (Pembina): Mr.

Speaker, December the 7th, 2009, April the 8th, 2010, Estimates April 19, 2010, I asked the Minister of Health to give an update on the study she had initiated for Tabor Home back in August of '09. The best answer I've gotten from the minister so far is, and I quote: "The work of the people at Tabor Home has been extraordinary." I agree with that. I think that's great. Another quote: The community has requested more time to find a suitable location. They have done that as well. The site was found awhile ago,

April 27, 2010 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1447 however, they do need an an swer to secure the site on a long-term basis. Now, could the minister tell the board of Tabor Home and the RHA when she will give them an answer so that they can secure this site? Hon. Theresa Oswald (Minister of Health): I met with the CEO of the Central Regional Health Authority yesterday and we're getting much closer to being able to announce projects in the region. Mr. Dyck: Actually, they've hear d that many times. The seniors have lived in the community all their lives and helped to build the province that we enjoy.

Under the direction of this minister they are being forced to spend the balan ce of their lives away from family and friends. Why? The RHA is using terms like elder abuse, moral distress, among other not-so-flattering phrases. The minister has been aware of this problem for many years. Who is she doing–what's she doing, rather, to resolve this problem? Ms. Oswald: We're working with regional health authorities across Manitoba on capital projects. The members opposite don't like us to talk about the fact that we have renovated or rebuilt over 100 facilities in Manitoba since 1999.

They're a little sensitive on that point. They're also a bit sensitive on the point that during the economic downturn that they faced they froze health capital spending and issued a press release, Mr. Speaker. Can you believe this? They issued a press release that said, well, we don't really have any other choice. We disagree. We believe we do have choices. Admittedly, we have to plan very carefully and we have to move forward very deliberately. But we're moving forward. We're not going to freeze health capital like they did. These are crocodile tears. Mr.

Dyck: This government seems to have lots of money for priorities that they think they have, such as the stadium. Now, the minister and two previous health ministers indicated years ago that this 60-plus-year- old facility, which was never designed to be a personal care home, needed to be replaced. When is the minister prepared to make the announcement and do something about it? Ms. Oswald: Well, Mr. Speaker, I know I only have 45 seconds.

But our priorities for building in rural Manitoba include 888,000 for a two-bay emergency medical services facility in Neepawa, we just opened that; $5 million for the Portage hospital ER; 720,000 for community cancer services in Eriksdale; new or renovated hospitals in Brandon, Swan River, Thompson, The Pas, Beausejour, Pinawa, Gimli, Morden-Winkler, Ste. Anne, Steinbach, Shoal Lake and one on the way in Selkirk. There's not enough time.

CT scanners added in Brandon, Steinbach, Thompson, The Pas, Selkirk, [inaudible] Portage la Prairie; the first MRI in Boundary Trails, which we also built; a new mobile ultrasound program in [inaudible] including Eriksdale; 170 new ambulances and eliminated ambulance fees for interfacility transfer. Please, Mr. Speaker, give me another 45 seconds. Probation Breaches Government Policy Review Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, Manitoba Liberals have been calling for effective use of ankle bracelets for a long time, a lot longer even than the Conservatives.

So I think it's appropriate that I weigh in on this issue, the debacle that's occurring in our probation system. Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the Justice Minister why we continue to learn day by day of people who are out on patrol when they should have ankle bracelets and don't.

I also want to ask the Justice Minister, if in light of the recent problems within his department, will be commit to an immediate review of all active probation cases files involving sentences with ankle bracelets, and will the Justice Minister commit to the rights of Manitobans to be safe in their homes and their communities and start this review process today. * (14:20) Hon. Andrew Swan (Min ister of Justice and Attorney General): Indeed, we had a discussion on this in Estimates. It's a shame that no Liberal member chose to come to any part of the Justice Estimates over the past five days.

But, indeed, there is electronic monitoring. It is a pilot project. We're working closely with the Province of Nova Scotia. I can let the member for River Heights know that we're expecting an assessment to be completed very shortly that will give some ideas on the successes and the failures of the electronic monitoring program over the last couple of years.

1448 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2010 It's important to remember that electronic monitoring is really an additional tool that's used to help probation officers control people in the community. It's not a substitute for custody. It is a good tool that we think has possibilities. We are continuing to examine whether it should be continued, expanded or what other steps we should take, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: Order. I don't think it's appropriate for members to be pointing ou t members' presence or absence, either in the House or in Estimates. Mr. Gerrard: Mr.

Speaker, Manitoba Liberals have argued for some time for a more effective and more comprehensive approach to young offenders, which includes not only ankle bracelets, but considers other variables like education and whether a–somebody has FASD or not. Under this NDP government we're only going to hear about more of these youth who fall through the probation system and go back into crime, and one of the reasons is that this minister and his NDP government will not commit to mandatory testing for FASD. Instead, they want to use a less effective approach of an ad hoc referral system. Mr.

Speaker, if the kid who was being reported today in the media has FASD, none of the NDP's current deterrents are going to work. Can the Justice Minister tell me if this repeat offender was tested for FASD, and does he have FASD or not? Mr. Swan: I'm amazed to have a Liberal stand in this House and talk about the Youth Criminal Justice Act. The Liberal government in Ottawa brought in the Youth Criminal Justice Act which replaced

an act which had its own problems. But I can tell you, whatever the stripe of provincial remiers and provincial justice ministers, the Liberal Youth Criminal Justice Act has created more frustration for front-l ine police officers, for Crown attorneys, and more frustration for people across this country that are frustrated that serious, repeat young offenders do not have appropriate consequences available when they attend before a judge. So I am quite amazed and shocked that a Liberal would stand in this House and want to talk about the Youth Criminal Justice Act.

We have been a leader–and I thank my predecessors–we've been a leader in calling on the feds for improvement. We are going to continue that, and I am pleased the feds are looking at improving that act, Mr. Speaker. Winnipeg Police Service Community Police Offices Closure Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Mr. Speaker, I'll tell you what is obvious, is that whether it's the Minister of Justice or the Premier (Mr. Selinger) of this province, they know to tough talk–to talk tough about fighting crime. But when, in reality, Mr.

Speaker, I'll suggest that all they need to do is look into Winnipeg's North End where they have closed–and they have done nothing to prevent community police offices from closing down. Whether it's on McPhillips Street or whether it's on Main Street or other areas of Winnipeg, no government has seen more community police offices close than this NDP government, and community police offices provide on-the-ground police services, and this government has done nothing to prevent those community police services from being able to protect the citizens of Winnipeg.

My question to the Minister of Justice or the Premier is to explain what sort of justification they have in allowing community police offices disappearing in the city of Winnipeg. Hon. Andrew Swan (Min ister of Justice and Attorney General): Mr. Speaker, I'm wondering if the member wants to run for member of Parliament or if the member wants to run for city council, because it's really not clear. And it is fascinating, here's the individual, the member for Inkster, who stood in this House and who's gone on radio saying that Winnipeg doesn't need any more police officers.

That's what the member for Inkster was quite pleased to put on the record. I'm rather proud that across this province, since 1999, we have added 219 police officers–219 more officials out there protecting our citizens across this entire province, and, frankly, we continue to make investments. The Liberals have opposed the things we've done to strengthen prosecutions, to strengthen probation services, to strengthen our support for police, and if the member has difficulty with a decision made by the Winnipeg Police Service, he should speak to his city councillor who, I'm sure, would be delighted to hear from him.

April 27, 2010 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1449 HOUSINGFirst Homelessness Initiatives Mr. Rob Altemeyer (Wolseley): I thank the honourable members opposite for my usual warm reception. I'm sure I'm not the only one after yesterday's question period who had this question, so I'm glad to have a chance to ask it. On a very simple matter of housing policy, we had both opposition parties contradicting themselves. First, the provincial Tories are at odds with their federal counterparts on thei r partnership with us to implement a HOUSINGFirst program, which they're doing across Canada.

And not to be outdone, the Liberal leader managed to contradict himself in the same question, and he's a caucus of one, but the Liberal priority of saying yes to all angles on all issues still prevails. I'm turning now to our hardworking Housing Minister in the hopes that she can tell us what the actual announcement was that took place yesterday. Hon.

Kerri Irvin-Ross (Minister of Housing and Community Development): I was very pleased to be joined at Main Street Project with Minister Toews and Councillor Pagtakhan, where we announced $10 million for Winnipeg agencies to address the issue of homeless–or at-risk homelessness in our province. It's through the Homele ss Partnering Strategy that we've come together with 34 community organizations, where we're going to provide services such as housing, social services and health services to individuals that are living on the streets and support them in their road to recovery.

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank the grassroot organizations that continue to work tirelessly to ensure that we can provide those support services to individuals. They include: Andrews Street Family Centre, Behavioural Health Foundation, Elizabeth Fry, Macdonald Youth Services, Sarah Riel, Red Road Lodge, Native Women's Transition Centre, Main Street Project, North End Community– Mr. Speaker: Order. Bill 221 Government Support Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Mr.

Speaker, in 2008, when the NDP government refused to pass my private member's bill to set up a domestic violence death review committee, they said that they would go forward on their own and examine the feasibility of what I was recommending. I should just point out that Dr. Jane Ursel, an expert on domestic violence, was also wanting to see a death review committee struck. However, according to Dr. Ursel, some meetings were held by the NDP in 2008 but, since then, absolutely nothing has happened. I would ask the NDP today: Will they do the right thing and support Bill 221?

Will they step up to the plate and help prevent domestic violence? Hon. Andrew Swan (Min ister of Justice and Attorney General): It's a pleasure to put some facts on the record, that, indeed, in 2008, Dr. Jane Ursel, for whom we have a great deal of respect, recommended the development of a domestic violence death review committee.

And, in that year, there were a series of meetings involving all of the stakeholders, because, if there is to be a committee, it has to be meaningful; it has to be able to gather all of the information that it needs to move ahead. [interjection] I'm not sure why the members opposite think this is such a funny matter because I don't think domestic violence is a laughing matter at all, Mr. Speaker. We intend to do it right. There have been some privacy issues which have been addressed and we want to make sure that that committee has the information it needs to do its job.

We made this a priority and we're expecting to hear back from the committee very soon. We do plan to have the domestic violence death review committee, a very important step forward, up and running very shortly, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: Time for oral questions has expired. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Neepawa Homecoming 2010 Mr. Stuart Briese (Ste. Rose): Mr. Speaker, I'm excited about the opportunity to invite all members of this House and all Manitobans to participate in the Manitoba Homecoming celebrations taking place in Neepawa on May 12th to 15th.

On May 12th, all Manitobans will be honouring the 140th birthday of our province. In Neepawa, this will begin the four-day celebration of activities. Communities across our province will be holding Manitoba Homecoming events, but Neepawa was chosen as the official host community and has

1450 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2010 planned four days of events to attract every person who is a Manitoban at heart. There are many events scheduled for those four days that showcase lots of Canadian talent. The Snowbirds will be performing their only full aerial show in Manitoba at the Neepawa celebration. Snowbird fans across the country are planning to travel to Neepawa to take in the program. May 12th will also mark the beginning of the Select midway shows, which will feature a variety of rides for all ages. * (14:30) The events in Neepawa will also be featuring lots of Manitoba talent.

There will be an art show at the VCC to recognize the arts of Manitoba's Francophone artists and other community groups, such as the Manitoba Canadian Pilot Owners Association are hosting events. A committee of 11 organizers have been hard at work for months, co-ordinating four days of events. They have worked tireless ly to secure funding and plan events that will excite Manitobans of all ages and cultures. In order to keep all entertainment free of cost, they have also organized a number of fundraisers, including a New Year's Eve social and a Valentine day event.

While the event is being held in Neepawa, there's hope that people across the country who consider themselves Manitobans at heart will make the trip out for the unique event in Manitoba's history. The organizing committee hopes to see 30,000 people attend the four days of events, making this the biggest celebration Neepawa has ever seen. I encourage all Manitobans to take

part in celebrating the birth of Manitoba by attending these homecoming festivities. Thank you. Cross Lake Royal Canadian Army Cadets Mr. Frank Whitehead (The Pas): Mr. Speaker, I am proud to speak today about the 38 Ernest McLeod Cadet Corps program in Cross Lake who recently were chosen to receive 2009 prestigious Gerard Buckley Cadet Fund award. This is an important achievement for the group and the money will go a long way in helping them reach their goals.

The Royal Canadian Army Cadet program welcomes youth ages 12 to 18 and, through a variety of activities and learning experiences, fosters attributes of teamwork, lead ership, good citizenship, physical fitness while promoting an interest in the Canadian Forces. The successful program currently has over 18,000 dedicated young army cadets in 443 cadet corps across Canada. The cadet corps in Cross Lake is the only one in Manitoba located in an Aboriginal community. In an area that experiences many social problems, the corps helps or offers young people a constructive alternative to gangs and other negative pastimes.

As part of their regu lar activities, the corps parades weekly with approximately 60 cadets and often participates in wilderness survival skill development. Cadets spend their summers attending one of the many cadet camps throughout the country and through–and during the year they contribute to their community and environment by planting trees, cleaning up garbage and improving beach areas. The awards fund, created jointly by former Army Cadet Gerard Buckley, the Army Cadet League of Canada and Scotiabank, is used to support optional training for army–Canadian army cadets.

The Cross Lake corps is in a unique position to receive this grant of $3, 000 because the cadets are encouraged to consider careers in the medical field and this funding can be used to purchase training equipment such as casualty simulation kits and CPR torsos. Mr. Speaker, I want to commend the Cross Lake cadets for their hard work and commitment to the program and congratulate them on receiving this important grant. Doc Walker Mr. David Faurschou (Portage la Prairie): Mr. Speaker, Manitoba has always had a strong and vibrant music scene, producing some of the greatest bands the world has ever seen.

From The Guess Who to Neil Young, Manitoba is a province with a strong tradition of internationally renowned musicians. Portage la Prairie's own Doc Walker can be added to this list. Composed of Dave Wasyliw, Murray Pulver and Chris Thorsteinson, who always proudly point out that they originally–who always proudly points out that he is originally hailed from Westbourne. Doc Walker was nominated for their second Juno Award for Country R ecording of the Year for their release Go. The band won last year's Juno for Country Recording of the Year for their album

April 27, 2010 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1451 Beautiful Life. In addition, at the 2009 Canadian Country Music Awards, the trio won five awards, including being named group of the year and nominated for the favourite country artist/group of– at this year's Independent Music Awards. It's no wonder Doc Walker is known as the hardest working country band in Canada. Their perseverance and comm itment to making great country music has transformed them into one of the nation's most sought-after acts which has recently taken them on tour in Australia.

Even though Doc Walker has reached success on the international stage, Chris, Dave and Murray have not forgotten their roots, choosing to be back in Portage la Prairie on April the 3rd to perform at the inaugural concert in th e new Portage la Prairie– Portage Credit Union Centre and kicking off Manitoba's 140th anniversary homecoming celebrations. Mr. Speaker, I would like to extend on behalf of all honourable members of the Manitoba Legislative Assembly our heartfelt congratulations on your past accomplishments and our best wishes for continued success.

We are all truly proud of how you have become true ambassadors of the Friendly Manitoba mantra. Thank you. Snow Lake Sustainable Community Plan Mr. Gerard Jennissen (Flin Flon): Mr. Speaker, the need for sustainability in development planning is ever-growing, and nowhere is this more important than in single-industry communities such as Snow Lake. I'm very proud to announce that Snow Lake has made great strides in sustainability through assembling an award-winning plan which is gaining recognition across the province.

The need for an effective sustainability plan becomes even more necessary because of the upcoming development of the Lalor ore body, and the planned revitalization of the Snow Lake mine. Mining follows natural boom and bust cycles. Snow Lake recognized that a proactive, viable plan would ensure prosperity for the town through the lows as well as the highs. Beginning in 2008, the Town of Snow Lake, in consultation with community members, crafted a 20-year Sustainable Community Plan, which was launched in November 2009.

The main tenets of the plan are to appropriate the most efficient, serviced areas to residential and commercial development in response to the expected influx of people, and to ensure that green space is preserved. Snow Lake has been sharing information with other municipalities and, as a result, has become a model from which many other communities can learn. Snow Lake was one of the first to develop a Sustainable Community Plan, and the town has received accolades for that–for their insight.

In October 2009, Snow Lake and the planning consultant were given an honourable mention at the Manitoba Planning Excellence Awards and, on April 15th, the town was awarded the 6th Annual Municipal Excellence Award for their plan at the Municipal Officials Seminar at Brandon's Keystone Centre. Each submission was judged on the criteria of creativity, cost effectiveness, sustainability, and overall benefit to the municipality. Clearly, Snow Lake's plan shone in every respect. Mr.

Speaker, I want to thank Mayor Zamzow and his council and Community Economic Development Officer Bev Atkinson, as well as Dave Mayer, Mike Willett, Ron Scott, Iona Johnston, Chris Samborski and Dean Elliott. I proudly congratulate Snow Lake for their unique, forward-thinking approach to sustainable growth. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Winnipeg's North End Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Mr. Speaker, it's–I wanted to briefly comment in terms of what is a very important issue for me, personally, and that is the whole need to be able to draw more attention to Winnipeg's North End.

I believe, at the end of the d a y , t h a t w h a t w e n e e d t o b e a b l e t o s e e i s a government that's going to be more sensitive to the needs of community services such as policing that I raised today in question period. In fact, one could ultimately argue that these are services that have an impact through the entire city of Winnipeg. The community police office on Broadway and others are offices that have provided so much in terms of opportunity for community involvement in community policing, and I do believe that that is something that's really important.

Another issue that I wanted to be able to make quick reference to is that of immigration, Mr. Speaker. The Manitoba Provincial Nominee Program is a program that has allowed for and facilitated thousands of families from being reunited and, ultimately, settling in the province of Manitoba. And by allowing for that program to prosper and to grow, at the end of the day, I believe Manitoba's economy

1452 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2010 has done well, not to mention the impact it has had on the social fabric of our society. So I know that these are the types of issues that have and will continue to be important to myself. And I recognize the value of these programs to, in fact, the entire province, Mr. Speaker. And, of course, it is always important to highlight the last thing, maybe, I should comment on and that, of course, being community health services.

I really want to encourage the government to recognize the value of community health services such as the Nor'West Health, which is going to be moving into an access centre–at least we're anticipating it to be moving into an access centre. I appreciate the dialogue with the Minister of Health (Ms. Oswald), and look forward to that ultimately opening. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Point of Order Mr. Speaker: The honourable member for Portage la Prairie, on a point of order. Mr. David Faurschou (Portage la Prairie): Mr.

Speaker, I would like to ask leave of the House for permission to make a correction to the on-line Hansard pertaining to a private member's statement I made on April the 19th. Due to a typographical error, I misspoke and made the statement it was the 170th anniversary of Manitoba. In fact, it's only 140th and I would like permission of the House for that correction be made. Mr. Speaker: Is there leave for on-line Hansard of April 19th–it was a member's statement–the member's statement by the honourable member for Portage la Prairie (Mr. Faurschou) to change 170 to 140.

Is there agreement? [Agreed] ORDERS OF THE DAY (Continued) GOVERNMENT BUSINESS House Business Hon. Dave Chomiak (Deputy Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, pursuant to rule 31(8) I'm announcing the private member's resolution to be considered next Tuesday will be one put forward by the honourable member for Brandon East (Mr. Caldwell). The title of the resolution is International Nurse Recruitment. Mr. Speaker: It's been announced that pursuant to rule 31(8), it's been announced that the private member's resolution to be considered next Tuesday will be one put forward by the honourable member for Brandon East.

The title of the resolution is International Nurse Recruitment. * * * Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, I wonder if we could have–enter into Committee of Supply. Mr. Speaker: Okay. We will now move–orders of the day–we will now move on to Committee of Supply and in the respective rooms. In the Chamber will be Education; and room 255 will be Finance, followed by Infrastructure and Transportation; room 254, Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives. The House will now resolve into Committee of Supply. Madam Deputy Speaker, please take the Chair.

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) AGRICULTURE, FOOD AND RURAL INITIATIVES * (14:40) Mr. Chairperson (Mohinder Saran): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now resume consideration of the Estimates for the Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives. As had been previously agreed, questioning for the department will proceed in a global manner. The floor is now open for questions. Mr. Cliff Graydon (Emerson): Thank you, Mr. Chairperson, and good day to you and to the staff of MAFRI. I'd just like to finish off the response that I was responding to yesterday, and it was the gardening in Thompson and the amount of resources that MAFRI have at their disposal.

I'm just wondering if this is one of the best uses of that type of resources. It seems like three positions–it seems to be an overkill, but if there's more than gardening, I'd like to hear that. And I probably referred to one of the staff that's with us today, who is a home economist, who is able to teach sewing, cooking and gardening and probably at a far less rate of income than what any one of these particular people today will get in Dauphin–or in Thompson. So, I'm just responding to the last comment that the minister made.

April 27, 2010 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1453 Going forward, Mr. Chairperson, I'd like to clean up some of the old issues that are laying around from days gone by, and one of them would be the Ranchers Choice. It was started by a few ranchers up in the Interlake, was a great idea to have a slaughter plant. It was at the beginning of BSE, at a time when the border was slammed shut. The cattle industry in Canada was in a terrible turmoil, floundering. The idea of this slaughter plant at that time was a great idea. It was initiated to kill cows and find an export market for that.

I thought that their plan was a good plan. What I'd like to know from the minister today is: How much money did the provincial government expend in this particular endeavour that eventually failed? And we'll go into the failure part of that later. Hon. Stan Struthers (Min ister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives): Yeah, I'm–I'd like to clean up on some of the old issues that the member is talking about as well. I guess I disagree with him in terms of a northern food program. Gardening certainly is part of a northern food program.

And I think it's a very worthwhile cause to try to tackle some of the problems that northerners face in terms of eating. I was in Shamattawa early last fall. I walked through the Northern Store and I saw a carton of 18 eggs, and we could probably go around the table and guess as to how much those 18 eggs cost, but I'll save us that and just tell you, it was $28. Mr. Chairperson, $28 for 18 eggs, and we wonder why it is that kids come to school with empty bellies. And how, then, do they learn?

And how, then, do they become educated to break that cycle of poverty that I'm hoping the member for Emerson is serious about dealing with? It's not a problem that I wish to pass on to the next generation and I certainly hope that him and his party are supportive of programs and people in our department, who are trying to solve these kinds of issues. I think gardening is a–I think not just a great way to grow food, but it's a great way to bring families together.

I can remember as a kid, in a little town called Durban, Manitoba, in the Swan River Valley, where we had a–just a little town, and we had, in the middle of town, a community garden. We had our own garden over by our house but we had a community garden that got people together all the time. And we had, for our community, we had grandparents and parents and kids all out there working and learning the va lues of self sufficiency, learning the values of seeding and growing and harvesting, talking about what's going on in the community.

And I want to see that happening in places like Wabowden that I mentioned yesterday, where, years ago, they had, I think, some very good work done and are now tryi ng to recreate that good work through the school division, in a place like Wabowden. And I think it can happen throughout northern communities, in more communities than just Wabowden. * (14:50) My feeling is that that's a worthy program, it's a worthy cause. It's an objective, I think, that we should all have, as people who live in communities who, you know, we understand those values.

I think we should take the attitude that, what we have for ourselves, we wish for others. I think that's a good program, and I think the people that we have in Thompson are going to be very busy working on that. On–in terms of Ranchers Choice, there was $4.5 million in equity. There was a $240,000 loan; $448,000 was provided for infrastructure in the city of–R.M. of Dauphin to help in terms of making this project go ahead. Producers had contributed $1.8 million and those funds were rebated when the project hit that final red light, and–so that money was rebated.

I'd like to say that I would–I'd like to be able to say that I thank the opposition members for their support of this project and for the support of building a beef slaughter capacity in Manitoba, but I really can't on this one. Why they went around the province trying to run a sword through this project, I'll never know. Why it is they're not supportive of other causes that we're taking on now to increase beef slaughter–it doesn't make any sense to this rural Manitoban. If we're going to be helpful on the livestock side, '09 was a tough year, whether you're in hogs or whether you're in cattle.

There were some other challenges in the agricultural industry in different sectors, none so more than on the livestock side. This government has been absolutely and firmly in the place of working towards building slaughter capacity, whether that be in the Ranchers Choice, a project at Dauphin, or whether that be with Keystone Processors in Winnipeg, or whether that be in Carman, Manitoba, or McCreary, Manitoba, or Blumenort. We're looking at ways in which we can

1454 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2010 increase the number of animals slaughtered in Manitoba. I think it makes good sense. We're helping on the hog side. When you look at the developments and the support in Brandon and in Neepawa, why a political party would be out beating the bushes against increasing beef slaught er in this province, I'll never know, Mr. Chairperson. Mr. Graydon: I'll just make a couple of comments on the project of the gardening.

There's certainly from this side of the House, there is no one that's going to argue that people should have fresh–have access to fresh vegetables and whether they be from a garden or fresh eggs, whether they be from their own henhouse or where it happens to be from. However, what the–what my concern was is the amount of resources that would be used. And I'm well aware that they have a university of the north, and they have an agricultural policy there, agricultural program there, and I'm just wondering if that wouldn't be a duplication, Mr. Minister.

And so I pointed out that maybe those resources could be used somewhere else if they were being duplicated. We certainly support anyone having access to fresh food whenever it's possible and to be able to teach them to do that on their own. I think a lot of people have in the past and do–still do that in and around the city.

In fact, it's only been the last week or so I've read in the paper where people want to keep a few chickens now in the city for their own fresh eggs, whether they're $18 or $28 for 18 eggs or whether they're $3 a dozen or whatever they are, they still want to have their fresh eggs in their backyard. And I'm–whether I'm opposed or in favour of it doesn't make a difference, but people do still want that type of thing. At any rate, we'll go on to the answer on Ranchers Choice. There–if I understood right, it was $4.5 million in provincial funding that did flow.

Could the minister explain how that flowed, and then and when it flowed? * (15:00) Mr. Struthers: Yes, I mean, it's very interesting to speak with my colleague from Emerson on food in the north and the relationship that the University College of the North could have with not just our department, but any departments who are interested in this whole endeavour in northern Manitoba. It's interesting that a person from a party that opposed the UCN in the first place, in the '07 election, would try to make that kind of a connection.

But I guess in opposition you can have it both ways, all the fun and none of the responsibility. That's quite a good position to be in, I suppose, but in government we have to make decisions, and we have decided that this is very much a worthwhile goal. It's something that we want to do, in conjunction with UCN if we need to, without the kind of overlap that the member is concerned about, because I don't want to have overlap, I want to have a program that works well. I think between us and Frontier School Division, in more areas than just Wabowden, we could be successful at it.

And I think that UCN could probably play a role in it. I'm totally open for suggestions of that, without the kind of overlap that the member was concerned about, and I thank him for that concern because it's something I think we always need to be aware of and make sure that it's co-ordinated in a good, efficient fashion. There was money that was for–on the Ranchers Choice questions, there was money that was raised through the industry of about a million dollars. It was held in trust by the lawyer on behalf of Ranchers Choice.

In 2005, we began to flow the money that we referenced earlier, the $4.5 million that I referenced earlier. We began flowing that, and it was based on the needs of Ranchers Choice. So we would flow that to the lawyer for Ranchers Choice to be held in trust for them to make use of that money. We believed that that would be the most–not just the most efficient way of doing this, but the most accountable way of doing it as well. We want to increase slaughter capacity in Manitoba.

We want to do it in an efficient way and we want to do it in a way that's accountable to the taxpayer, who works hard to pay their taxes to give to us to make good things happen. So, we know we have to be accountable with that as well. So we believed at the time, in '05 through to '06, that that was the best way to do that. So that's how and when the money flowed. Mr. Graydon: Yes, if it does–perhaps from that side of the House, it does seem to be simpler on this side, and it won't be long before we'll give the minister the opportunity to experience that.

April 27, 2010 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1455 However, in the meantime, if we could answer the next question without being political, I would appreciate it. What I would like to ask the minister is–and I want him to understand that Ranchers Choice was not a bad idea. The problem was the minister of Agriculture at the time didn't listen, and I'm hoping that the minister today will take advice from time to time, as it is meant as well-intended advice, not critical advice. And, at the beginning of 2003 or the middle or the end of 2003, at a large meeting in St.

Claude, a large meeting of 400 and some people–there were media reports of up to 700–but one of the deputies was at that meeting that night, and I recall our conversation that I had with him at that time. The conversation was clear. We came here looking for solutions to the crisis that the cattle industry was in. And I suggested to him at that time that the message that he would take to the minister was: Keep your subsidies, build the slaughter plant and give us the bill–we'll pay for it.

But, instead of taking that advice, the minister of the day chose to do a lot of different things, and I was one of the individuals that had 70–700–or $7,500 tied up there. I had 75 hooks bought in that slaughter plant, because I believed that it was possible. But the way it was handled–the way it was administered–made it become a failure. And so, when I give the minister advice from time to time, please pay attention. It's well intended.

So what I would ask now is that the money, when it flowed from Manitoba Finance, when it flowed to Ranchers Choice , the beef co-operative, was there any outlining of how that money could be spent, outlining the terms and the conditions for repaying the money? Mr. Struthers: Well, I–as the member knows, I don't mind being political. We're all politicians, and I'm going to make those points. And I'm going to point out the inconsistencies and the approach that him and his party take. And I hope he can live with that.

I do want to say that the answer to his question is, yes, there were things that Ranchers Choice needed to do, and there was a contribution agreement that was in place that governed the flow of our money. It had to do with security of investments. We were dealing with the taxpayers' dollars, so we wanted to make sure that there was an understanding of that security. * (15:10) And, I think, we need to remember that these are–we were doing these as an investment. We were to become a common shareholder.

That was the purpose of us being involved and, you know, all those other reasons for increasing slaughter capacity and the rest of it. In terms of advice, I think I, quite clearly, yesterday, outlined that I very much appreciate the advice that I get and I even included, yesterday, in my opening statement, members of the opposition who do give me advice. I want the member to know that I listen very carefully to the advice that he gives me, and just because I don't follow it all the time doesn't mean I'm not listening to him.

I get advice from a lot of people, and I got advice during '05 and '06 from a lot of people in the ranching industry who said to me that–who give me different advice, quite frankly, than the member for Emerson, and I wanted to be able to listen to what they were saying. I know the former minister–I think a bit of an unfair criticism from the member from Emerson on the former Agriculture minister. She was listening; she was listening to the Manitoba Cattle Producers Association.

I saw, at some of those meetings–I saw, at a very large meeting in Brandon, how members of the opposition did behave and did work to undermine the project. It was very clear to me. So, I mean, I attend those meetings, too. I have talked to people in the industry; I take their advice. We tried–people that I know in my constituency tried very hard and worked very hard on this project and were quite disappointed with the final result.

But I want to make it very clear: it did not reduce our resolve as a provincial government to increase slaughter capacity in Manitoba and it's my hope that, as we move forward, we can count on–yes, good advice from members oppos ite, and maybe even support from members opposite in order to accomplish that. Mr. Graydon: Perhaps, looking forward, you did mention in your opening statement, and, again, today, that you were very supportive of the slaughter industry in Manitoba, and you highlighted the Keystone Processors. You also highlighted Carman.

I haven't heard of an announcement in Carman at this point, although I know that there has been a proposal put forward. I don't know what that status is of that particular proposal. And you also made a short comment about

1456 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2010 Blumenort. I know that the federal government has made an announcement there. They have put forward quite a large sum of money to bring that plant up to federal standards which would be what we need in this province. We need to have more federally inspected plants that we're able to market outside of the local economy and, as we're a province that's the farthest from most ports, we are definitely a feeding province. In order to value-add the livestock that we do produce here, it does make sense then to value-add that livestock by processing it.

And so I would ask the minister today: Has his government committed any money to the Blumenort plant, because they were noticeably absent at the announcement that I was at a week or so ago? Mr. Struthers: The outfit at Blumenort, the Country Meat and Sausage, they did apply for some money through the federal Slaughter Improvement Program, and that was, I think, quite rightly considered by the feds and approved by the feds, and I certainly appreciate the kind of work that we've been able to do with the feds in this whole area.

We're looking for partners in terms of increasing slaughter capacity, and I think Gerry Ritz gets it. I'm very pleased to work with the feds, whet her it be on slaughter capacity or any other agricultural program. The Country Meat and Sausage has an application before the Manitoba cattle enhancement commission–council–Manitoba Cattle Enhancement Council–there, got it. They've got an application before them, which I understand is being considered by that group.

My understanding is–and I should maybe get back to the member with a number in terms of our participation in terms of a feasibility study that we had through the Rural Economic Development Initiative for Country Meat and Sausage and also some work–some help that we gave in terms of waste water. That's a very important component whenever we deal with all of these kind of slaughter facilities, and the Province certainly was there. So I don't want it to be thought that the Province isn't supportive of that particular operation out at Blumenort. We are. They haven't–they didn't come to us looking for money.

They went to the feds looking for money and the feds said yes, so I think that's good. The other one that I do want to mention is the Plains Processors in Carman, Calvin Vaags and his group, and, you know, the way in which, I think, this model is a perfect one for communities in rural Manitoba. It's a perfect way to take local beef, slaughter it locally, sell it, in this case through the Carver's Knife on the east end of Winnipeg. You've got local beef processed locally and consumed locally. I love the way that circle is maintained. We helped there with $19,600 from REDI in terms of feasibility study when Mr.

Vaags was becoming involved. These kinds of ideas–and you can go to McCreary and find in McCreary what I think is, again, a very successful model to take local–locally grown beef and process it an d, as much as we can, try to sell it locally. * (15:20) I agree with what the member for Emerson said. I think we need to increase our ability through federally inspected plants to process beef.

If we're going to deal with international trade problems, blockages to our product getting to the world market, one of the reactions, I think, that is natural and makes sense for us as a society here in Manitoba is to find more ways in which we can process that food locally, process that hog locally, process that–those cattle locally. I think that is a good response to some of the international things we've seen happening, understanding, of course, that we're not going to eat our way to prosperity with 1.2 million Manitobans. We do have to export.

We do have to protect those markets, but I think what I see at places like Country Meat and Sausage, at Plains Processors, Keystone Processors, Oak Ridge Meats in McCreary, I think those–those really make sense to me. Those models make sense. It's an economic model I think that'll work for those of us who live in rural Manitoba and help us provide the best beef and best pork in the world for Manitobans and others who are interested in purchasing it. Mr. Graydon: The minister indicated a while back in one of his answers to Ranchers Choice that $448,000 was spent in Dauphin.

Could he indicate what that was spent for? And was that a grant? Mr. Struthers: It was a grant. It was to provide the infrastructure necessary for the plant should it had gone forward. It was connected to line extensions for the waste water–for waste-water treatment, pretty essential stuff for a project to move forward on. Mr. Graydon: Were those projects that it was earmarked for, were they all completed?

April 27, 2010 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1457 Mr. Struthers: At the time that the project was ended, the money that had been spent on the line extensions, that work had been done. The second part of that, that we never got to because the project didn't go forward, was increases to the facility–the waste-water facilities that would've been hooked up by the lines. So, only the work that was done to the point of the project coming to a halt. So that work was completed. Mr.

Graydon: So, if I understand correctly, the lagoon expansion that would handle the waste water– the proposed waste water from the plant was not done. Would that work have been above the $448,000 that was granted to the town of Dauphin? Mr. Struthers: Yes, that $448,000 was the line extensions that–there was no money spent on anything further to that because this project came to an end. But I want to be very clear–and I apologize, I may have been a little misleading earlier–the $448,000 went to the industrial park that is located just north of Dauphin.

It's the R.M. and the City of Dauphin that have been working on this industrial park. Those lines–those extensions are there for future economic development up there in God's country for other projects that we could go out and seek. So that money–I want to be clear that that money was earmarked for industria l parks no differently than other industrial parks that we've worked with to provide infrastructure for. So the 448 thousand–448 hundred thousand is for the industrial park. The other funds I talked about were the funds that were held in trust for Ranchers Choice. Mr.

Graydon: Thank you for that; 448,000 for line extension did seem to be quite expensive, but, obviously, there must have been some checks and balances, and your department must have been satisfied with that. Mr. Struthers: Absolutely. Mr. Graydon: There was a number of departmental initiatives announced in 2009-2010, as indicated in numerous news releases. Perhaps the minister can give us an update on where these initiatives are and whether any of them did go ahead and if any of them have been completed or what the status of the initiatives are. Mr.

Struthers: Can I ask the member to focus a little bit on which of those he'd like some information on? We're a very busy bunch and we've got lots of good ideas and lots of good things, and I would just ask him to maybe focus our attention on some that he's interested in, and we'd be happy to provide him with all kinds of information. Mr. Graydon: I'm quite interested in all of them, and if it's not convenient for the minister today, I would be happy to have his staff check all the announcements that he made over the past year and give us an update on each and every one of them. That's what I would appreciate. Mr.

Struthers: That's quite an interesting request from the member from Emerson and I don't mind doing it. I want him to understand the, kind of the breadth of what's he's asking for and the amount of time that's going to take. We did a lot of news releases over the '09-010, and I'm proud of every single one of them, and I will brag till the cows come home on every single one of them. Get it? The cows come home? Anyway–because there was a lot of projects that we brought forward. There was a lot of very good projects we brought forward.

We will endeavour to do our best to meet the request that the member from Emerson has given us, but I want him to understand that it's a huge–I think it's a huge undertaking and–but it does give us a very good opportunity to brag about all the good things that we've been doing, and I'd be pleased to share those with the member for Emerson. * (15:30) Mr. Graydon: I thank the minister for that. I understand the breadth of it and, by all means, you deserve the bragging rights if you did complete them or if you did start them, but I would like to know all of them.

Whether you didn't start them then, I would like to know about those as well. So that was the purpose of it, and if you've completed them, by all means brag. We're used to hearing it and we're pleased with it, so. The next question I have, Mr. Chairperson, is the travel by the Premier or a delegation led by the Premier that was paid for by this–by that particular department, by the Department of Ag. Was there any travel that was paid for and, if so, could you give me the pertinent details of the travel, such as location, purpose, dates, costs and who all went?

1458 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2010 Mr. Struthers: I'm going to double-check this for the member, but to the best of our knowledge here, there wasn't any that we picked up, whether it be the current Premier or the former premier, over the last budget year. If we did, I would expect there'd be a darn good reason–a darn good agricultural reason for the Premier to be there. He is our–he, whether it be the former or the current Premier, is the best spokesperson for our province, and if we're working on some international issues, some national issues, then I think that can be justified.

But to the best of our knowledge, that did not occur in the last year. Mr. Graydon: I have no doubt that if the Premier did attend any of these as a–that were paid for or any delegations that were paid for by the Department of Agriculture that it would be for a good reason. I certainly expect that from any premier and from the department as well. So if you'd be so kind as to check to see if there were, I would appreciate that.

The ministerial travel–k nowing that the minister is a newly minted minister and that he has been meeting with many, many people to get himself up to speed in a very important portfolio, I might add, one that would be somewhat uncommon for him with the background that he has, I understand that he would make a lot of trips within the province to bring himself up to speed and also outside this province. And perhaps the minister can tell us how many trips he and the former minister have taken outside the province in the past year and relate the pertinent details to these trips.

And, again, the details that I'd be looking for would be the purpose, the dates, who went, who paid and what were the costs. Mr. Struthers: The first thing I want to point out is that all of the travel is posted on the Internet quarterly, so that is readily available to the member. I've been the minister since November 3rd. Since November 3rd, I've made one out-of-province trip, and that was to the big city of Toronto.

And, on February 5th, we had ministers' meetings where we received reports from all of our officials–from federal and provincial and territorial–having to do with the review that's going on right now of the Business Risk Management suite of programs, the AgriStabilities and AgriInvests and the AgriInsurance, and all of those programs that mean– that do mean so much to farmers. But we need to–I think we need to look at ways in which we can improve. I'll be–we'll be going again. I will be going to Saskatoon, I believe in July, to again deal with that same issue.

That is the–that's the extent of the out-of- province travel that I've done as minister. We will check for the first half of the budget year to see what the–what that number is and follow up on the request that the member for Emerson (Mr. Graydon) made. But I want him to know that all of that out-of- province travel is fine, and I agree that there needs to be a purpose. If you're going to Toronto or anywhere around the world, if there's a need for the Agriculture Minister to be somewhere out of the country to either defend markets that we have or open up new ones, I'm perfectly willing to do that.

But I want him to know that I need to be convinced that there is a purpose to go on international travel. I think it's important. There has to be a goal in mind. I don't think I, as minister, should go alone on these. I think I should identify some Manitobans who, maybe, somebody who, if it's a trip somewhere and we have a farmer who's got some understanding on whether it's Canola or hogs or you name it, I don't mind being helped out by some people who have some expertise in these areas.

I want him to know, though, that my favourite part of travel is in my vehicle on the gravel road somewhere, probably in his constituency, looking at something and talking to a farmer, and talking to a business owner in Vita or Wampum or Sundown or any of those metropolises down in the southern part of the province, right through up to talking to farmers at the Carrot River Valley in The Pas, like I have done a couple of months ago. I get very excited about that Manitoba travel and checking out things that are happening.

I'm really looking forward to this summer, because it's going to be my first summer as the Agriculture Minister, and I'm going to be out talking to farmers in their fields, talking about their situations, getting advice from them. And, if I'm in the member from Emerson's area, I'll be sure to stop in and he can put the coffee pot on for us. Mr. Graydon: Thank you for that, and you're welcome to stop in any time. And I might add that, driving in the Emerson constituency, you will be driving on gravel roads because we don't have blacktop.

However, I do agree that there are times when ministers need to travel outside the province for different reasons. And those reasons are certainly to promote what we have in the province of Manitoba, what we have for export, what we have here in the way of manufacturing, and in a number of other cases. I–and internationally, as well, we need to

April 27, 2010 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1459 promote the products that we grow here, whether that be pork or beef or grain or any other product that we produce in the province. * (15:40) Having said that, I know that the former minister, in the past, has travelled to Europe to the– I'm not sure what it's called. It's a–the world food show, or one is held in Anuga and one in another town. They alternate–is that not true–or another country? Does the minister consider something like that worthwhile? Mr. Struthers: Yeah, the member–the two cities that the member refers to is Paris and Frankfurt.

Paris is a–the description I have is Sial, S-i-a-l, Paris, and Frankfurt is Anuga. I'm not sure of the spelling on that. My apologies to those in Hansard, but Anuga, A-n-a-g-u. A-n-u-g-a, sorry. A-n-u-g-a, okay, I think I got it now. It's in Frankfurt, anyway, and they are trade shows. The–if a minister of Agriculture is interested in going it's usually in conjunction with Manitoba Trade.

And, I want to be really clear, a number of Manitoba companies who attend, as well, who have a real business reason for being there, who sometimes need a minister to open some doors for them when they're at these trade shows, a minister to help make those kind of connections that are necessary for Manitoba companies to be successful. The–like I said earlier, I'm very keen on having a specific reason to do international trade, whether it's these food shows that the me mber is asking about or any other international travel, it needs to make sense.

I need to be able to turn to Manitobans and say, this is why I went and this is what we hope to gain out of it, and here's what we got. I think the member is right. I think I agree with him that we–as a minister, I need to be very clear on my purpose for going. It has to make sense in the Manitoba context and it always, I think, is better if you bring a Manitoba business along, a Manitoba company, Manitoba farmer, some kind of connection like that that really, I think, makes that international travel real and makes it make sense. There was something else I was going to say and I forgot.

Anyway, I'll think of it later. Mr. Graydon: When, and I know that you haven't– you personally haven't attended any of these trade shows, food shows, other trade show, international trade show in either one of those cities; however, the former minister has, in the past. I don't know that she did in 2009-2010 budget year. However, the question would be: How many staff normally attend or accompany the minister on such a trade mission, understanding full well that you're–that there–any agribusinesses are going along and producers of–manufacturers of ag products or food go along as well.

I mean that's the purpose of the whole thing is to promote Manitoba grown. But how many staff normally attend with the minister? Mr. Struthers: The–I want to say at the outset that I know the former minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives shares the same principles upon which the member for Emerson and I have been discussing here. I know that the former minister had a purpose in mind whenever she did international travel and could easily defend that–defend th e work that she did in other countries.

Typically, what happen s on–and there–the two shows that the member asked about earlier, no one attended in–I guess it would have been in Frankfurt last year. The minister–nobody attended that in the '09-010. What typically happens is the minister will–if the minister decides he or she is attending, they would have one staff from MAFRI; they'd have one staff from Trade.

I think it's pretty–if it's the Agriculture Minister, it's pretty obvious that a MAFRI staff would be there. * (15:50) What I think has been–what I think we've found is that if you hook up with somebody from Trade, that that person then can do all of the co-ordination, the meetings with the business community that we take with us, co-ordinating meetings with our business community and what ever country you're in, and hooking up people in the industry. I think that Trade has some of those good kind of connections that we can use to enhance that.

Also, I think there's a real advantage in this in that the people that–in the industry that we meet when we're abroad quite often will return that visit back to good old Manitoba and see how things really should be, should be done, right? And, that again, the Trade person can co-ordinate that sort of an exchange.

1460 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2010 We need to have somebody there, I think, to do that kind of outreach. I'll give you a good example. Up in our Parkland area, with First Nations and bison ranching up in the Ebb and Flow area, I know the chief–well, Ebb and Flow and Skownan, that whole area, the chief from Skownan was hooked up with a group in Germany, and I think they're developing a real good relationship. The Germans are very interested in First Nations bison product, and they're moving along; they're moving forward.

It's very important to have those markets in line to make sure that your business is successful. I don't think we can underestimate the role that Manitoba plays in the area of food. There was a reason why, a number of years ago, the former premier added the F to MAFRI. It's a very important part of what we do. It's a very important part of our province.

It's been a part of our province since before there was a Department of Agriculture, and, you know, we–it's very important not just by feeding people that live in the province and around the world, but I think we have to–it's an area where we can really add some value. I think I'm going to begin describing Winnipeg as the food city. I mean, it's–when you think about all of the things that we do in the area of food and processing and distributing, it's a big part of what we do, and I think we have to promote that. I think the member is right; it does need to be promoted and bragged about.

I also think we can do it in a very efficient way, and it looks to me that when there's that–when a trade delegation goes over–goes to a conference or goes to a food show or a trade show, I think we can show that our staff isn't–we don't overdo it with staff, that we have the staff that we need and we keep that to a minimum so that we're efficient and it doesn't cost the Manitoba taxpayer an arm and a leg to get this done. That's certainly the approach that my predecessor took and it will be the approach that I take as well. Mr. Graydon: Thank you for that.

I believe that the minister is genuine when he says he believes in adding value to our product. I would find it difficult, on either side of the House, to find people that would disagree with that. He also mentioned that he was in favour of research and development of products in the province of Manitoba. At least, I thought that was what he said and correct me if I'm wrong. Mr. Struthers: No, you're exactly right. It's a–and I've been amazed at some of the good outcomes that have come along in terms–that have been produced by a commitment to research.

And it's not just a commitment to research on the part of a provincial government. I mean, we're there. This department's there. I know other departments are there as well in terms of funding research, but there is a lot of time and energy and money put forward by–in the university community, throughout the industry. I know when I meet with, you know, everyone from the Pork Council to MCPA to Keystone to the NFU, there are groups actively out there pursuing dollars to be used in research.

I think companies–I've been impressed with the amount of research companies have done and the funding they've earmarked to improve their products everywhere, from proving your products to lessening your environmental footprint. I think, right across the board, there's been some very good work done by a whole host of people and organizations, entities who are interested in that.

And I just, very quickly, one thing–last night, we got the barbecue out and I threw some pork chops on there, nice, big, thick pork chops, and I can remember when I was a kid and my mother, when she made pork chops for us, she cooked those pork chops right through so there was no pink in it at all, and I didn't have to worry about that last night with the barbecue. Those were thick pork chops. I didn't leave them on nearly as long. They didn't taste like baseball gloves like my pork chops usually do.

They were very good, and when you talk to people at the Pork Council and, you know, Karl Kynoch and his staff over there, they'll tell you that they spend a lot of time looking at those kind of very practical things that they need to do with their product to make it easier for a guy like me to slap it on the barbecue. I'm not exactly the province's best cook. I may be the minister in charge of food, but I'm not that good of a cook and I'll admit it.

But, boy, those pork chops tasted well last night, and you can trace a lot of it back, right back to the kind of research and work they've done into developing a project that can be put on my barbecue and taste really well by the time I was finished with it. So there are some very good work going out there in terms in research. I don't want all that research to stay in some ivory tower some place. I

April 27, 2010 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1461 want that research to be transferred to the consumer and to the producer. That's very important for me, and I think I see lots of good examples of that happening. And it's one of the perks of being the Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives minister, that I get to see all kinds of those examples. So it's–I think it's an exciting field and it's something that we need to be–remain committed to. Mr. Graydon: In order to have profitability on the farm there needs to be research.

There's no question whatsoever, and the minister, seems that he's– certainly supports that wh oleheartedly. We've seen the research, a lot of the research that's being done in the province, that's being done by private enterprise. He did outline the research that's being done by Manitoba Pork. They have done a considerably good job. I would suggest that the dairy industry has done equally as good a job. We see the Canola industry doing a tremendous job, as we ll, of the research that they do, and we see the Wheat Board, for example, doing a lot of research as well. And that, Mr.

Chairman, is an indication of what private enterprise has done and is doing in order to stay profitable. However, with all the lip service that I've heard from the minister in the past five minutes, when I look at his budget and I see that the research for Agri-Food Research and Development Initiative has been cut in half. And, also, we've seen a lot of research being done at the universities–good research being done at the universities, and he cuts the transfer payments to the universities. I don't believe what the minister was saying that he believes in. I think he was speaking to the media.

He wasn't speaking to his budget. Perhaps he can tell me how he managed to allow his department to cut an area that's so essential to the profitability of the farm industry, how he could allow that to happen when he felt so terribly strong, so terribly strong about defending agriculture in the budget, about eking and scraping out money in the budget, and allowed this to be cut like that. * (16:00) Mr. Struthers: I'm disappointed that the member is disappointed. I mean, he has to be very careful.

It's– and I remember these days in opposition, and I remember getting tripped up doing this, too, by some Conservative minister who had good staff on his side of the table to point out what's accurate as opposed to simply taking one line and assuming that that's the whole story. I can excuse the member for Emerson for doing that, as long as it doesn't happen over and over through Estimates. I mean, I'm going to help him out on this one. First of all, it's not just private enterprise that has a role to play in providing research dollars for outcomes that benefit farmers and consumers and businesses in Manitoba.

It's not just private enterprise. Universities have a role to play in that, and universities do a good job of combining private enterprise and public ente rprise and putting forward a package of research that needs to be done. And I think the public sector–I think federal and provincial governments have a role to play in providing those funds as well. The member says that it was–it's been cut by 50 percent. He's incorrect. If he can look past one or two lines that he has highlighted in his Estimates book over there, he will see that what has happened is that–even given his own numbers that he put forward, Mr.

Chairperson, it's not a 50 percent cut. There was a reduction in some of those programs, a much smaller reduction than that, that was then shifted to our support through Agri-Innovation, which, if he looks in his package, he'll see a $3-million increase from $7 million to $10 million. Now, that's us teaming up with the federal government. And I think he'll agree with me that you don't want the Province way over here, setting priorities and funding and researching all kind of in isolation over there, with the federal government over here doing the same thing.

It makes more sense to us to reallocate those dollars to programs where the feds and the Province can work together. We can make our dollars go much further on behalf of the farmers that the member from Emerson, I know, wants to see, you know, benefit from these programs. So instead of just looking at that one line in his package, I would suggest that he should look broader, look at the whole area of research, and I think he'll see that our numbers actually increased year over year.

There has b een a reallocation of our funds into the Agri-Innovation suite as part of the business risk management suite of programs. There's a ton of people out there who have ideas and applications, and they speak with us all the time about their innovative ideas for research and using that research to benefit farmers. We thought that was a much better bang for our buck, so that's where our attention has been. The universities, I think, understand that they can–that universities, that, you know, that the member for Emerson put on the–or in his question, can access that money through the

1462 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2010 Agri-Innovation program, where there's more money to be doled out. But I think the real advantage of that is that that brings together us and the federal government. We can then work together on what's best for public policy, for public research, and not have our dollars compete against each other but have our dollars work together and produce, I think, better results, better research that farmers then can use.

The last thing I want to say on, you know–with this question is that one of my fears is that we have research being done way separate from the farmer and researchers never being able to get that information to the farm where it can be used or a farmer saying, you know, I'm just going to do it like Grandpa always did it, and then the best research in the world never gets used that way. So I think we have to keep bringing the farmer and the researcher together. The more input the farmer can have with the researcher, the more relevant that research will be.

The questions they– and the hypotheses that th ey test are then better connected to the farm gate, and that improves the chance of that research really paying off for the farmer. And I'll just throw the word "Canola" out there for the member to think about in terms of how that farmer-researcher conn ection really paid off for our producers here in Manitoba. * (16:10) Mr. Graydon: Well, I'll go back to what I said, and I may not have been totally accurate when I said Agri-Food Research and Development Initiative, ARDI for short, was cut by 50 percent.

It was not a full 50 percent; it's $750,000 and it's cut to $350,000. That's the numbers in the budget. Now, I believe that that is close to a 50 percent cut. Could the minister tell me what ARDI really has done in the past and what their purpose is, if it's not for research and development? Mr. Struthers: Mr. Chairperson, I want to stress again that ARDI is one element in the overall delivery of research funding between us and the federal government. It's just the one element. We have some, you know, funding through the Growing Forward program, which I know the member is familiar with.

The ARDI has–in a total, ARDI has $1.85 million that they're dealing with, and they–that's a combination of federal and provincial dollars. And, again, that's one part of the overall research package. I talked earlier about the Agri-Innovation fund, which saw a big increase, a $3-million increase, from 7 to 10 million dollars. So I think that what the–what's important for the member to realize is that there's a large–there's a big picture here. There's a large amount of funding that goes towards research. I was serious earlier when I went on about–I just didn't want to talk about my barbecue and the pork.

I mean, there was a point to that story, and that was that research is important. I stand by that, and I stand by our decisions to focus that money through Agri-Innovation and through Growing Forward, and team that money up with federal dollars to make sure that we're providing that kind of research. I want to say, too, that the member for Emerson has an important connection that he could use to make sure that the federal government knows, you know, what Manitoba farmers need, in the person of the former member for Emerson who the federal government has appointed to ARDI. Mr. Jack Penner sits on that.

So, if there's any questions that the member has of the federal side, I think, right in his backyard, he's got a very capable guy he can go to to talk to. I would certainly be very interested in continuing to speak to the member for Emerson on this issue as well. Mr. Graydon: Mr. Chairman, I was well aware that the former MLA for Emerson was on the ARDI board and will do a tremendous job. He's a very well-rounded individual who has a pile of experience in agriculture and in management and so I have a great deal of respect for his abilities to add to the board.

I will point out that the minister did say that ARDI has a budget–total budget of $1.85 million. Part of that is federal money. He didn't suggest that the federal part was cut. He just suggested that the provincial part was cut. So, when we're partnering, and we are–and I know a little bit about ARDI. I know that ARDI has the ability to deliver projects and do projects on farm projects to show what innovation and research that has been done in other areas, and show the results of that.

That's very important, and it's not being left on the shelf, as the minister pointed out, that he didn't want to see this research being done over here, and not getting over here, and then not getting to the ground. ARDI is that vehicle to take it to the ground and I think it's a very important vehicle.

April 27, 2010 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1463 I think the minister made a mistake in cutting his funding to this particular research because, as he pointed out, he's certainly in favour of research and I believe that he was genuine in saying that. I would suggest that every member in the House is in favour of research that we can move forward and become more profitable in agriculture or in any other endeavour. So I'm going to suggest that the cut, although might have been necessary to fit the directive from the Finance Minister, was certainly not made in the right place.

I'm not suggesting that there is a right place in Agriculture to do cuts. I think agriculture contributes more to this economy than probably any other business, and so, when it forms close to 6 percent of the GDP, cutting anything in Agriculture is a sad day for agriculture. However, moving on, rather than discussing what has already taken place, and I think we'll see the ramifications of those cuts, and we'll hear about them going forward, I'd like to ask the minister to provide details about their department's annual advertising budgets.

What I would like from him is getting a detail to the campaigns that their departm

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Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	39-4-35b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	39th 4th hansardpdf 35b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
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