April 18, 2005 RESOURCE COMMITTEE

The Committee met at 7:00 p.m in the House of Assembly.

CHAIR (Harding): Good evening, everyone.

I would like to welcome you all to our Resource Committee meeting this

evening, where we are discussing the Estimates of the Department of Tourism,

Culture and Recreation, and Labrador Affairs.

First of all, we will do the introductions, I guess. I am Harry Harding, the

Member for Bonavista North and Chair of the Committee. Gerry Reid, Vice-Chair,

and the Member for Twillingate & Fogo; Eddie Joyce, the Member for Bay of

Islands; Ray Hunter, the Member for Windsor-Springdale; Kevin O'Brien, the

Member for Gander; and Charlene Johnson, the Member for Trinity-Bay de Verde.

I would like to ask the minister now to begin to do the introductions of the

people he has with him from his department this evening.

MR. SHELLEY: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Good evening, everybody. First of all, I will start by welcoming everybody

here, and to introduce, I guess, officials from both Tourism, Culture and

Recreation and also from Labrador Affairs.

As you probably already recognize, Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs will be

split. I will be doing the Labrador Affairs

section tonight, and Minister

Rideout will continue with Aboriginal Affairs.

I will start with my immediate left here, where we have Gary Norris, Deputy

Minister. Then we have Brent Meade, ADM, Culture and Heritage. Next to Brent is

Vic Janes - I think most people know most of these people anyway - the Assistant

Deputy Minister. We have Gerry Crocker, Director of Finance and General

Operations. At this time, too, I will introduce Sean Dutton, who is Acting

Deputy Minister of Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs.

What I am suggesting, and I will leave this open to you guys, is that we deal

with Tourism and Culture and then we will go into - or, if you want to go back

and forth, whatever is convenient to you.

I will start off with Tourism, Culture and Recreation, and do some brief

opening remarks. Then we will leave it open for questions. Then we will go into

Labrador Affairs.

CHAIR: Just a minute.

We will have a similar process to what we have had before, that the minister

will begin and have up to fifteen minutes, if you want, to talk about your

department's Estimates. After that, the Vice-Chair will speak, and he will

have up to fifteen minutes. From thereon, we will just alternate up to ten

minutes each. It is going to be very informal, but that is sort of a standard

they have asked to follow.

I will identify the members on the Committee by their name rather than by

district. I just want to remind the officials with the department that this is

being recorded by Hansard, so, when asked to speak by the minister, if you could

identify yourself each time so that they can know who is actually speaking. That

is for the people down in the Media Centre.

I ask the Clerk to call the first subhead.

CLERK: Subhead 1.1.01.

CHAIR: Mr. Minister, if you want to begin now.

MR. SHELLEY: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I am not going to go into long detail on those numbers, and go down through

them. That is for you guys to do during your Estimates debate, but I will do

just some brief opening remarks from the Tourism, Culture and Recreation point

of view, and try to break them down briefly.

I will start with the list I have in there. There is culture. We talk about

culture and, of course, we focus a lot of that on the budget, as you have seen.

Without listing each one of them, I will just say that some of the investments

in culture with this budget - there were some small numbers, some people may

say, as far as, for example, the Arts Council, an increase from $160,000. It

sounds like a small increase but, at the same time, it means a lot to that

particular group. Sixty thousand of that particular $160,000, by the way, is

towards their celebrations this year, the twenty-fifth anniversary.

We could go on down the list but I will not do that, just to say that the

cultural part has been a foundation part of the budget, I believe, especially as

it relates not just within our department but also what we partner with - which

I think everybody finds interesting - the education side of it within the

schools, and things that we will do within curriculum for culture within the

schools. Of course, the announcement of the date for the opening of The Rooms

this year, and trying to extend that into outreach in education is also a big

part of that budget. From a cultural perspective, I will leave the longer list

that you can through in Estimates.

From a Tourism perspective, last year, of course, we heard many different

reports from all across the country, and we have our final numbers in now on our

actual numbers. The fact of the matter is that right across Canada, especially

within Atlantic Canada, by the way, there are all kinds of variables that are

really beyond anybody's control, I guess, because global factors do affect

tourism. That is the reality of it. From last year, things like the Canadian

dollar, the price of gas, an American election, all of those things factored

into Atlantic Canada.

To give you one specific example, we got numbers back from Prince Edward

Island, who, as we all know, is a big centrepiece of Atlantic Canada when it

comes to tourism. They were down some 11 per cent last year. In this Province it

was a mixed bag, as some people would put it. Although on one end of it the good

news, I suppose, is that the airlines and the competition within the airlines

brought our numbers up, so overall we had a slight increase; but, on the other

part of it - rubber tires, we call it - people coming into the Province through

Marine Atlantic, is the ongoing historical argument we always have, that those

numbers and the service, of course, with Marine Atlantic has deterred people

from coming to the Province. It is going to be an ongoing battle.

Of course, the federal advisory committee, now that we have made

presentations and so on, hopefully they will address some of the concerns that

have been going on for a long time with Marine Atlantic, hoping to deal with

some of those; but as you see throughout the Province, too, in some pockets, as

you go through, you will see, for example, the Deer Lake-Corner Brook area is up

because Deer Lake Airport was up, and up in St. Johns's because St. John's

Airport was up, up in Labrador West because of the airport, but when you look at

the rubber tire effect you will see it down in certain parts, like in Cental

Newfoundland, where they usually have those numbers. Over the years this has

been historical, what we call the rubber tire tourist, coming into the Province.

It has been a mixed bag like that but I guess overall, if you had to capsulize

it, once we look at the year overall, we saw an increase amid some challenges

that everybody across Canada saw, especially in Atlantic Canada.

There were a number of factors with that, but, hopefully, as we continue with

marketing - and everybody has agreed on that for years. I have had many

discussions on that. We all heard the statistics that the Tourism Industry

Association of Canada puts in, that for every dollar you spend on marketing you

have an intake of $10 on tourism, so that is a pretty good return. Everybody

appreciates and understands that marketing our Province in a global world has

helped us. We did add that $1 million to the marketing budget this year and that

brings that to a total of $8 million now.

From a tourism perspective there are still challenges out there to continue

to market but also to keep in mind, too - and I say this over and over - that

product development is important, too. It is good to say we are going to

increase the marketing, and increase people coming to the Province, but we also

have to build on our infrastructure in the Province. There are still many

challenges to that, and product development hopefully will take up the slack. As

we build on marketing, we also continue to build on product development.

Tourism overall, I guess, to capsulize it, was not too bad for a year that

was questionable right across the country - as a matter of fact right across the

world - for different reasons.

The other factor that I did not mention, which you are all pretty familiar

with but it is sort of a mixed message to us, is the whole idea of terrorism and

the threats. Yes, it affects a small place like Newfoundland and Labrador.

On a funny note, I guess, contrary to that, we can find out that in some ways

it actually helped us, with the things we have seen, in the fact that people

recognized and for the first time saw Newfoundland and Labrador during that

crisis, we would call it, when they landed here in Newfoundland and Labrador. We

got a lot of positive feedback, by the way, through that over the last number of

months, so it is funny how things work sometimes.

Tourism, overall, is certainly growing. A lot of people are still interested

in becoming entrepreneurs, but the thing we have to keep in mind now is that as

we develop - because, really, we are still really developing it. There are a lot

of new people who want to get involved in it, but we have to make sure, through

proper business sense and so on, that we do it right. That is why marketing and

product development, we think, have to go hand in hand. One cannot grow without

the other. People are coming forward with great ideas and so on, but we say to

them to have a good business sense of what you are really trying to do, and make

sure you have the best information possible to move forward.

Another thing that I am pleased that we are able to do in this budget is the

extension on visitor information centres and historic sites. Of course, as we

say many times, we have to become a four season and especially an extended

season as far as spring and fall. So this year, both with historic sites and

visitor information centres, we are going to open earlier and close later. I

think everybody wanted that. I heard that a lot through consultations wherever I

went. Especially, for example, in Newfoundland and Labrador, the iceberg season,

as the Member for Twillingate & Fogo knows, that is one of the biggest

attractions along our way. When people come in May and June, because they look

for that iceberg season, they would like to be able to drop into a visitor

information centre and find out - as a matter of fact, I would also encourage,

and we are going to try to do this to the best of our ability, to get better

information on icebergs and the roots and that. We are being told that the

monitoring is better now, the technology is better; they can tell you where the

icebergs are and so on. We have to be able to get that information quickly to

tourists who come by, to say where this is happening now. It is definitely an

icon in Newfoundland and Labrador, when we talk about icebergs and whales, of

course. I think we can do a better job of it, and hopefully through this

extension of the season and everything we are going to pick up on that. I think

those were two things that I was pleased to see in the budget that we can work

on.

From a tourism perspective, I will leave it there for now. We can go on and

on, we all can, on tourism. I am sure you have some questions as we go. The last

one that I will mention, because it is Tourism, Culture and Recreation,

sometimes we leave that recreation part too quietly, I believe, especially with

my background in it. I am sure a lot of you agree on it, because I have said

many times that an investment in recreation and physical activity is an

investment in health care, because that is what happens down the road. It is a

sad thing to say, but, as a former phys. ed. teacher, the fact of the matter is

still that we have the highest obesity rate of young people in Canada. It has a

lot to do with our eating habits and physical activity and so on, so I would

like to put a bit more emphasis on recreation and sport.

I will just throw this one out for the members here who are always interested

and have come and talked to me, and that is recreation grants, for example,

through small grants that we use through the members and so on. They are small

amounts of money but they are important. Every Member of this House of Assembly

knows, and I do from the number of years I have been here, too, that helps

communities build on infrastructure. Whether it is playgrounds or some kind of

activity within the communities, it all builds on recreation, so there is an

additional $100,000 this year to try to move towards that, even when stadiums

and so on had problems with their chillers, and that type of thing, anything to

keep recreation up. Hopefully, we are going to be able to help out more

communities this year when we lean towards that.

Secondly, I want to make a comment on this because it really - when you do a

full budget sometimes it gets mixed messages and so on, but I am certainly glad

to be able to get an opportunity in the Estimates to even talk about that, and

that is the Provincial Training Centre, so that it is clear, because it got

mixed and muddled a number of times. I have heard so many different angles on

it, I will try to clarify it as best I can.

Basically, we have been without a provincial training centre for all of our

Newfoundland and Labrador athletes who come from all parts of this Province for

all kinds of sports. As you know, Torbay has been down for awhile. We have

looked at different options up there, and there have been a number of options,

as a matter of fact, right from doing something back in that building to a

proposal we had - I cannot remember the exact amount now, but it was in the $15

million range - to build a new one. Of course, we are not looking in that

ballpark at all. While we were still considering options, the rugby association

of Newfoundland and Labrador, along with Sport Newfoundland and Labrador, got

together and came to us to ask if we would look at a partnership with them, the

federal government and the city, so that we could add on to facilities they have

down there and we could open up a provincial training centre. As opposed to

looking at spending money on a building that may not do us any good, to looking

at a $15 million building and then a $7 million building and so on, this

proposal came in asking us, through that group, for a $1.3 million commitment on

behalf of the Province. They have also approached ACOA, which they have done

now, and they are also talking to the city. If all of those come onside then we

have something to work with. If it does not, then I guess we will look at our

proposals and we will continue to look at options that we are looking at.

The bottom line is that, at the end of the day, right now, as we speak, all

the provincial teams in the Province, when they come in here from all over the

Island, instead of having their own provincial training centre, right now, at

all hours of the night and all over the city, we are paying rentals so they can

go to different facilities, which has been really inconvenient for a lot of

these athletes who are coming from all over, for the volunteers and for the

coaches who do all of the work. It has been a pretty hectic pace for them the

last couple of years. We are trying to find a solution to that. This is one of

the proposals, and one that we would certainly try to partnership with if we can

get some co-operation and collaboration with the other groups. That is where

that one is.

I could go on with recreation too, I guess, for probably even longer than

some of the other ones. That is just an overview of some of the things for the

department this year. Those things, Tourism, Culture and Recreation, do really

come together to sort of, I guess, promote the Province in different ways. I

think, hopefully, we are headed in the right direction. There is a lot of work

and a lot of challenges there yet, but we are looking forward to, this year,

improving on those.

That is my time, Mr. Chair. Now we will deal with the Estimates one by one,

myself and the officials, and we will deal with Labrador Affairs after that, I

say to members of the Committee.

CHAIR: Thank you, sir.

I would like to welcome the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair, Yvonne

Jones. I assume you are filling in for Judy Foote.

MS JONES: (Inaudible).

CHAIR: Who is going to begin now?

Mr. Reid.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I will go through it quickly. I am just going to pick at the Estimates under

the various headings and you can answer as quickly as you can and we can go

through them rather quickly.

Under 1.2.04., there is $225,000 budgeted for Property, Furnishings and

Equipment. It looks like new funding. Where is that going?

MR. SHELLEY: That is the $225,000 under 07?

MR. REID: Yes.

MR. SHELLEY: That is a new van for the arts group. Also, that is the

purchase of the land for Cupids.

MR. REID: I had better get my headphone because I did not hear any of

that.

MR. SHELLEY: Okay. That is the van, right, I think for the -

MR. REID: Did you say van or land?

MR. SHELLEY: Yes, van.

MR. REID: A $225,000 van?

MR. SHELLEY: No, that is a van for the culture and heritage group. That

is a new van purchased. The rest of that amount is with the land that we

acquired for the Cupids archeological dig. That is why that is new.

MR. REID: There is a van you are purchasing and the rest is going for

land. Is that right?

MR. SHELLEY: Yes.

MR. REID: For what areas are you talking about, up the Southern Shore

there?

MR. SHELLEY: No, no, it is for Cupids. I said it earlier, you did not

hear it.

MR. REID: You are buying land?

MR. SHELLEY: Yes, that is for Cupids, the same as we did - well, we did

it before with the Colony of Avalon, because that is under private ownership and

that is what we would acquire for to continue the archeological dig at Cupids.

MR. REID: And who is the van for?

MR. SHELLEY: For Culture and Heritage. For the Division of Culture and

Heritage.

MR. REID: Under that same heading, I think 1.2.04, the IT budget has been

decreased by $145,000.

MR. SHELLEY: Yes, that is for the TDMS project. That is the new

technology which is used now. So, basically, the upgrading was done and now

there is a lesser amount.

MR. REID: 2.1.01. Purchased Services increased by $950,000.

MR. SHELLEY: 2.1.01?

MR. REID: It has to be more than a van.

MR. SHELLEY: Where did you say? Which one?

MR. REID: 2.1.01., Purchased Services.

MR. SHELLEY: Under Purchased Services, 06., that is the marketing

funding.

MR. REID: That is an increase over last year, is it?

MR. SHELLEY: Yes. A variance of $950,000.

MR. REID: What kind of marketing? Is that for the ads that you see on TV

and things like that?

MR. SHELLEY: That is also with the TDMS function, I believe. Mr. Vic

Janes, if you -

MR. REID: You are going to have to tell me what these acronyms are, too,

by the way.

MR. JANES: Mr. Reid, that money is the $1 million marketing increase that

was given this current year, similar as we had last year. The money, primarily,

is spent in the off Island marketing campaigns; whether it is in The Globe

and Mail or the world, or some large magazines, TV in Ontario, Alberta. So,

it is general marketing money that goes out in those various campaigns.

MR. REID: Okay. Does this include the cost of making these ads?

MR. JANES: Yes. If there are costs involved in creative or in the actual

production, these things would be captured in the areas.

MR. REID: But a fair bit of it is paid for advertising, I guess, is it?

MR. JANES: Yes.

MR. SHELLEY: (Inaudible).

MR. REID: Yes. Under the same heading, 2.1.01, an additional $160,000 for

Grants and Subsidies. Who is getting the grants and the subsidies on that?

MR. SHELLEY: That is the additional funding for the IT funding, but also

$100,000 is extra there for Destination Labrador. That is for the strategy for

Labrador. It is $100,000 for the next three years; $300,000 from us and the rest

from ACOA to continue with the Destination Labrador tourism strategy.

Also, within that one, too, by the way, that is $30,000 towards the Grand

Falls celebrations, centennial celebrations for Grand Falls one-hundredth

anniversary.

MR. REID: 3.1.01., Grants and Subsidies, an increase of $423,000.

MR. SHELLEY: 3.1.01? Oh, Culture and Heritage?

MR. REID: Yes, under Grants and Subsidies.

MR. SHELLEY: Yes, the Historic Places Initiative is under that and the

Corner Brook Exhibit cancellation.

MR. REID: You will have to explain that, because if you are cancelling

something I do not know why we are spending money on it. Do you have to spend

money to cancel it?

Grants and Subsidies, under the heading of 3.1.01, there seems to be an

increase of $423,000.

MR. SHELLEY: Oh, okay. That is the additional funding? Okay, that is the

list of them that we did throughout the budget. That is like the music industry,

$200,000. The CEDP, that is the federal program, we have added $100,000 to that,

and the Literacy Assistance Program is in that. It comes under Grants and

Subsidies.

MR. REID: The what? Literacy -

MR. SHELLEY: Yes, Literary Assistance Program.

MR. REID: I never thought they had it. Is this new?

MR. SHELLEY: Yes, that is a new one. That is what we have just added to

the assistance program for writers and promoters of books, book promotion. Then,

of course, there is grants for historic sites on the archeological dig, which

you have just mentioned, and the art procurement program comes under it. They

all come under that additional funding, under Grants and Subsidies. Those are

the main ones: the art procurement, the music industry, the Literary Assistance

Program.

MR. REID: So, you have increased funding for all of those?

MR. SHELLEY: Yes, those were the ones that were in the budget. I am glad

you asked that because a lot of times during the budget, they are all in one mix

of (inaudible), but that is the list of the additional ones. Like I mentioned in

the beginning about the small amounts of funding, but they mean a lot to these

people. For example, the Literary Assistance Program, we are lobbying for that

of course because the writers in this Province are steadily increasing, and

books - people in this Province. So, that goes towards that particular program.

That is all under Grants and Subsidies.

MR. REID: Under 3.1.02, Arts and Culture Centres. Salaries increased by

$120,000. How many people have you laid off there?

MR. SHELLEY: In Salaries, okay, from one-eighty-two - Brent, do you want

to answer that one?

MR. MEADE: One-hundred-and-twenty thousand reduction in Salaries is

related to two positions by attrition, a director's position and a senior

manager's position; as well as efficiencies in overtime and part-time.

MR. REID: So, you never filled the position of a director and -

MR. MEADE: - a senior manager who retired.

MR. REID: Where were they located?

MR. MEADE: Here in St. John's.

MR. REID: So, you are not going to replace those?

MR. MEADE: No. As part of that, we are doing a reorganization of the

management team at the Arts and Culture Centre system here in St. John's.

MR. REID: Under the same one, 3.1.02, Arts and Culture Centres, it has a

reduced budget for Purchased Services by $256,000.

MR. MEADE: Yes, that is a reduction of $256,000, of which $185,000 of

that is a reduction in our national touring program, and the remainder was a

reallocation in the Transportation and Communications required for the box

office communication system.

MR. SHELLEY: On the reduction in the national touring now, because I have

heard different comments on this, too. We have been dealing with this for a

number of months now, talking about the national tour that we have in through

the Province. That is anything from orchestras to symphony orchestras, to

anything we bring in from across the country, and we have been dealing with the

people of the Arts and Culture Centre on this for awhile. Basically, our

approach is to reduce - there is still a lot of national tour groups coming in,

but what we have said and what the criticism has been is that there are people

within the Province, our own talent, our own musicians, our own theatre and so

on, that can be used more in the Arts and Culture Centres. So we have listened

to what they said, basically, and we have taken out a portion of that national

touring. Now we have our own people in our own theatres.

For example, as you know, some of the programs that we have done here from

our own Newfoundland artists and so on, have filled the house. I guess much like

our hockey program has done, we have filled the house with our own people. Well,

with Arts and Culture Centres, with music and theatre and so on, we have such a

growing industry here now that we are finding more and more that we can fill our

own Arts and Culture Centres with our own talent. So, really, that was a

recommendation that we have heard come by and we are glad to be able to do it

this year, actually. But it is not to say that we have cancelled the whole

(inaudible), because that is what I have heard said. That is far from the truth.

As a matter of fact, there has been a reduction of about $200,000 in the entire

budget, but we use it to fill up with our own talent here in the Province.

MR. REID: Okay, thank you.

Under 3.1.05, Newfoundland and Labrador Film Development Corporation, who

chairs that?

The Newfoundland and Labrador Film Development Corporation.

MR. NORRIS: Norm Whalen is the current Chair.

MR. REID: Okay. Are there paid employees under that foundation?

MR. NORRIS: There are. Brent is on the board, so I will defer to Brent if

he wishes to indicate the number of employees.

MR. MEADE: Just for clarification, you are asking the number of employees

that are at the Film Development Corporation?

MR. REID: Yes.

MR. MEADE: I believe it is five.

MR. REID: Who is the head person there?

MR. MEADE: Leo Furey is the Executive Director. Chris Bonnell is the

Manager of Programs, I believe, and then there are a couple of business analysts

that are down there as well.

MR. REID: So what are you doing with the $110,000 more this year?

MR. MEADE: What happened is that they had an operating budget that was

funded by a combination of provincial funding and federal funding. Last year

that would have been $180,000 from the Province and about $420,000 from ACOA,

for a total of $600,000. Included in that would have been approximately $400,000

for what we call co-operations, and $200,000 for marketing. This year ACOA

pulled back their support from $420,000 to about $220,000. I do not think a

final contract has been signed, Mr. Reid, so the amount has been fluctuating. To

partly fill that gap, we went from $180,000 to a contribution of $290,000.

MR. REID: Okay, and you have increased the funding to that corporation by

$1 million. What is that going to be spent on?

MR. MEADE: That is the equity program. That is their main financial tool.

The Film Development Corporation has two financial programs. They would have the

equity program and they would administer the tax credit program on behalf of,

and in conjunction with, the Department of Finance. So, the $1 million extra

here is related to the equity program. It is a program that provides funding as

an equity investment or as development support for the creation of films.

MR. SHELLEY: That was used in Random Passage (inaudible) the same

programs just continued on.

MR. REID: Under Purchased Services for The Rooms, $3.4 million, that is

just to get it up and running and to pay the salaries?

MR. NORRIS: No, that extra $3.4 million is to complete the construction.

There is some work going ahead now in terms of the completion of the permanent

museum exhibit. That will be completed in the next couple of months. This is

some outstanding contract work to complete it. So, this is capital work.

MR. REID: Okay. Under Recreation, 4.1.02, there is an increase of

$100,000 to repairs and maintenance of community sports facilities.

MR. SHELLEY: That is the one I mentioned in my opening remarks. That is

grants -

MR. REID: $2,000?

MR. SHELLEY: Yes, that $2,000 there now - it is still $2,000 for all

members again this year.

MR. REID: Why wouldn't it go to $4,000 if you put an extra $100,000 in?

MR. SHELLEY: What we have done is left it open because some members avail

of it and desperately need it and some members do not.

MR. REID: Well, I have thirty-nine communities in my district. I can

certainly do with more than $2,000.

MR. SHELLEY: And I am open to that. I have been dealing with some members

on that. I understand that. That is why there is a variance around the Province

for different places that need it more. So, that is why we put it there. It is

application driven now. People would look for that and we would assess each one

as we go. We always try to keep some at the end of the year, which happens every

year, because of stadiums more than anything else; because of breakdowns in

facilities and so on, but otherwise, we try to use that in small amounts,

anywhere from $500 to $2,000, $3,000 or $4,000 to try to help with some kind of

recreational facilities.

MR. REID: Last year you sent us a note asking us where we wanted the

$2,000 put. Are you going to do that again this year?

MR. SHELLEY: Yes, we are.

MR. REID: Now we can ask for $4,000 though.

MR. SHELLEY: We are flexible on that, as far as - if you want to break it

down and use it for different - because those small amounts, as I said earlier,

mean a lot. They are small grants but they help out a lot.

MR. REID: The salaries increased in Labrador Operations by $160,000.

MR. SHELLEY: Yes. Now, that is in the unfunded. I kept going back to

Labrador Affairs and then back and forth with that one.

Basically, that is the - if I get this right, Mr. Janes - unfunded positions

that were at Sheshatshiu for recreation. Now, we are putting it in as funded.

MR. REID: How many of them are there for $168,000?

MR. SHELLEY: Pardon?

MR. REID: How many of them are there in Sheshatshiu?

MR. SHELLEY: There were three of them there. Now, we are in consultation

with the people in Sheshatshiu, of course, and we are looking at a two person.

Up to this point, basically, there was $160,000 unfunded that was put there

previously. Now we are looking at funding two recreational people there, in

consultation with the people, the Chief and so on in Sheshatshiu, so that they

are reporting on an annual basis back and we see what program - and our

officials are going to help them, of course, devise recreational programs and

make it more appropriate for the year.

MR. REID: Obviously, you are not spending $168,000 on two salaries.

MR. SHELLEY: No.

MR. NORRIS: There is also some extra cost associated with the rec centre

in Labrador, which is in Happy-Valley-Goose Bay. We also have a pool in that

facility. We also have an

interpretation centre down in Northwest River, so

there are some extra costs associated with the part-time employees who man those

particular centres and pools.

MR. REID: All right.

One general question now, before I pass it off. It appears the Wildlife

Federation is taking you to court.

OFFICIAL: The Wildlife Federation?

MR. REID: Yes, because he claims that - let me see, now. I will read

this. I heard it in the news this morning.

MR. SHELLEY: I heard it, too.

MR. REID: They claim that this mandatory trail permit constitutes a tax

and is beyond the power of the act. Is that true?

MR. SHELLEY: No.

I have had it sent to Justice for an opinion. As a matter of fact, we just

got it this afternoon. I can get it verbatim for you, if you want, but basically

this is a fee and not a tax. The fact of the matter is that if you collect from

a legal perspective - I am not a lawyer, now - if you collect fees to administer

for nothing above and beyond the maintenance and things that you need, then it

is fine. If you go beyond that, and if you are collecting exorbitant amounts

through a fee that is going beyond what you were collecting the fees for, there

could be a problem, but in this case there is not. The fee stands.

MR. REID: How many permits were sold this year over and above last?

MR. SHELLEY: We are going to get some real numbers on it. We should have

them soon, actually, because, as you know, it is still ongoing. As a matter of

fact, last weekend there were still good productive snowmobile runs and so on,

especially in Western Newfoundland and in Labrador.

The last number that I can remember, from just recalling now, last year on

the Island was about 6,500. This year it is over 10,000, I can say that much; it

is over 10,000 on the Island portion. I don't remember the Labrador numbers as

of now. We don't have them yet, do we?

OFFICIAL: (Inaudible).

MR. SHELLEY: We do not have the Labrador numbers, but I understand they

are up in Labrador and we should have them now, once the season is completed.

They want to wait until it is completed to give those numbers. Certainly, it is

well over a 4,000 increase on the Island, and we will get some number on

Labrador within probably a week or two.

MR. REID: There still must be a fair number out there using the trails

illegally, or unpaid for, are there?

MR. SHELLEY: Well, I guess you will have to ask some of the officers

that. Certainly, there is some patrolling going on. It certainly has picked up a

lot. We are talking gone from 6,000 now to over 10,000 on the Island. I am

hearing it is about similar for Labrador, so it is up substantially.

MR. REID: Thank you.

That is it for me, Mr. Chairman.

CHAIR: Okay.

Who would like to go next?

MR. JOYCE: I have about five questions.

CHAIR: Mr. Joyce.

MR. JOYCE: How do you get at those funds for recreation?

MR. SHELLEY: Pardon?

MR. JOYCE: The funds for recreation.

MR. SHELLEY: Can I say no comment?

MR. JOYCE: No comment, okay.

That 3.1.01., can we just get a list of that later on?

MR. SHELLEY: I am sorry, what is that again?

MR. JOYCE: That is 3.1.01.

Gerry asked a question. There was a breakdown that it was all put through. If

you could just give us a list so I would know.

MR. SHELLEY: No problem, yes.

MR. JOYCE: The other thing, the hearings on the mandatory stickers, are

you still going to hold public hearings?

MR. SHELLEY: What we are doing now, so far, we have gotten back a fair

bit of feedback. I met with the only group that was organized, basically, which

is CAMP. They asked for a meeting and I met with them. We have been getting

continuous feedback and, as I said in the House way back, when the season ends -

a lot of people think it has ended (inaudible) in St. John's, but certainly it

has not. The snow on the West Coast is really picking up, and still is, so, when

it is complete. We have had a fair bit of feedback now from people on both sides

of the issue. We have had some of our officials in New Brunswick, especially,

because they are the most similar to us. We looked at Ontario's, too, and the

big question is on the exemption still. We have looked at New Brunswick, and had

people there, and they have come back. They are reporting to us now also. As far

as other ways to get feedback, we will continue to do that, and we are looking

at what ways we can get more feedback on exemptions and so on come this spring.

MR. JOYCE: Are you having public hearings?

MR. SHELLEY: Whichever way it is, I am not sure at this point. We are

going to wait and see it come in, but I would suspect we will have a

consultation process of some type. As you know, we have talked about an

all-party committee before but that did not go very far back a few months when

we talked about it, so we might look at some other ways of having some ways to

have people - the main thing is that people have input in different ways. We

will look at all those options of doing it.

MR. JOYCE: The West Coast, I understand, from - is there a sports

consultant on the West Coast?

MR. SHELLEY: Not as of now. As you know, we reduced one last year and the

person there - actually, we thought at the time, when the reduction was on, that

the person in Central Newfoundland was about to finish his career, but that

changed at the time for now, and then, of course, the person on the West Coast

was replaced. I am sorry, terminated.

MR. JOYCE: Who is filling that position now? Is there anybody? There has

to be somebody doing the work.

MR. SHELLEY: Well, basically, now -

MR. JOYCE: I will tell you why I ask that: because there is a lot of

recreation in the Bay of Islands-Cormack area, that, before, you used to be able

to go to the recreation consultant and they would come down and visit, but they

haven't got the contact person now.

MR. SHELLEY: I will say this to you, that we understand that. As a matter

of fact, we have gotten some of that feedback and we are looking at where people

are located now and we are going to look at how we can realign that. That is

being reviewed right now. Hopefully, before the summer, I might be able to get a

more in-depth answer on how we are going to approach that. I agree with you,

that we have to make sure there is contact for those people in certain regions

in the Province.

MR. JOYCE: I don't mean to ask anything about Labrador, but I know a

couple of times you mentioned in the House here that you were up looking for

federal money for the Mealy Mountain auditorium. Is there already federal money

committed to that? Isn't there $300,000?

MR. SHELLEY: I am glad you asked that question.

Like I said, if it is okay with the Chair, we have Labrador Affairs here, and

we have Tourism, and we can go back and forth.

MR. JOYCE: No, that is just something, because -

MR. SHELLEY: That is fine anyway. Like I said, we can go back and forth

into Tourism and Labrador Affairs.

As far as that one, because it is involved with culture, too, I will just

tell you that what we have from the federal government - because I have talked

to a number of people - the solid commitment was $300,000 from Heritage Canada

on their cultural spaces. It is a grant, $300,000, toward the Mealy Mountain

auditorium. That was there. I met with that particular minister, Minister Frulla,

and she said that is still there.

The other $300,000 was from ACOA, pending it moving forward. So, the only

real hard commitment was $300,000 from cultural Canada. The other $300,000 was

pending from ACOA, and ACOA is telling us that certainly the door is open to

come back to talk to them again, but that was not committed. It was pending

funding. So, those two are still there. I did meet with the ACOA Minister also

in that list of meetings. I can tell you who I met with: the Minister of ACOA,

Minister Efford, Minister Frulla, with culture, and the minister of sport. I

forget his -

OFFICIAL: (Inaudible).

MR. SHELLEY: He is the only one that we did not talk about this

particular one on, and one other.

OFFICIAL: Andy Scott.

MR. SHELLEY: Andy Scott, I am sorry, the Minister of Indian Affairs.

They all said, at that time, even though the funding would not come from the

Minister of Indian Affairs, he supported the auditorium also, and they have all

said that their door is open to continued discussions about additional funding

for that type of thing because they have done that across other parts of Canada.

As a matter of fact, Minister Frulla was one of the ones who suggested that I

look at a facility in Montreal where, when she was provincial minister in

Quebec, they did the same thing, added on an auditorium to a community college.

They had done that through grants and through funding through federal

partnerships, federal and provincial, so that is one of the avenues we are

looking down. Certainly, her door is open and she was very enthusiastic about

working with us and pursuing that further, and that is what we are doing now.

MR. JOYCE: Another question I had there, the West Coast Exhibition Centre,

is that off your radar screen now? Because I know the application is withdrawn,

or...?

MR. SHELLEY: Yes, it is.

MR. JOYCE: It is gone?

MR. SHELLEY: As of now, yes, not to say it could never come back another

day.

MR. JOYCE: I can go out publicly now and say the West Coast Exhibition

Centre is off the -

MR. SHELLEY: It is off. It is cancelled.

MR. JOYCE: It is cancelled?

MR. SHELLEY: Yes, it is not deferred.

MR. JOYCE: Last year it was deferred. You were not sure because,

remember, there was some - I was saying there was money from ACOA and you were

saying they never got the letter from the minister at the time; there was no

letter committed.

MR. SHELLEY: Okay. I cannot recall what you are talking about. All I can

tell you is that it is cancelled.

MR. JOYCE: Yes, and I think Gary said there was never any money committed

from the federal government and you are waiting to see if there was. So, right

now, I can go out in Corner Brook and say there is -

MR. SHELLEY: The exhibition centre is cancelled.

MR. JOYCE: Cancelled.

MR. SHELLEY: Yes.

MR. REID: You do that tomorrow.

MR. JOYCE: I would not want to say anything if it is not true.

The Hockey Hall of Fame, do you guys support that much?

MR. SHELLEY: I will ask Mr. Janes to give us an update on it.

MR. JANES: We do not have any direct program which supports that. I know

they are looking to raise funds from a variety of sources but we have not put

money into it.

MR. SHELLEY: (Inaudible) follow up on that.

MR. JOYCE: So, I can say that is gone, too.

MR. SHELLEY: No, no. I talked to them as recently as the weekend. I am

certainly willing to have a look at that to see what ways - they were talking

about the fundraising and any ways that we could assist them in anyway with any

programs, either within our department or within any other department that might

do that. So, I am willing to look at that to see where we can pursue that

further.

MR. JOYCE: Okay. The $1.3 million for the Provincial Training Centre.

MR. SHELLEY: Yes.

MR. JOYCE: Is that money in the budget or is it just committed?

MR. SHELLEY: No, that money is in the budget.

MR. JOYCE: In the budget?

MR. SHELLEY: Yes.

MR. JOYCE: Okay. The question I have to ask is: If you put $1.3 million

in the budget over the next two years and there are no other funds committed

from the feds or the city -

MR. SHELLEY: That money would be left in the budget and then go back

into, I would assume, the financial process of consolidated revenues and then we

would take it from there.

MR. JOYCE: So, it is $1.3 million a year?

MR. SHELLEY: It is $650,000 each year.

MR. JOYCE: Each year?

MR. SHELLEY: Yes.

MR. JOYCE: So there is $650,000 this year and next year $650,000?

MR. SHELLEY: Yes, $650,000 both years.

MR. JOYCE: Because those are some of the concerns people - I guess when

you are looking at the Mealy Mountain thing, is that you could take that money

which you do not have anything committed for and could use it towards the

auditorium in -

MR. SHELLEY: Well, as I said earlier, everybody agrees that we need a

Provincial Training Centre. One of the comments I heard publicly is that we gave

money to a rugby association. Nothing can be further from the truth. The rugby

association is a very credible organization within the Province. They have

proven that many times over. They got together with Sport Newfoundland and

Labrador, who got all of these teams coming, trying to get a place for them to

practice. They got together, that is the whole concept here, and said: We have a

place down here. It would not cost you $15 million - I think one proposal was,

another one was $7 million. They said: If we work with you, we have a facility

down here we can add on to. We have the space down there. We can all work

together and you could have a Provincial Training Centre. We could continue on

with the rugby association. All the sports could be involved. So, in my opinion,

it is a win, win, win for everybody. Instead of looking at a $15 million

facility, we are looking at $650,000 for two years and we got a Provincial

Training Centre for all the Province. I thought it was a great proposal. I still

think it is a great proposal. It is up to the other groups now to come in on the

proposal.

MR. REID: Can I ask a question on that, Mr. Chairman?

CHAIR: Sure.

MR. REID: Did you say the city was looking at this as well?

MR. SHELLEY: Yes.

MR. REID: Why would the city kick in on a Provincial Training Centre?

MR. SHELLEY: That is a good question, and it was asked by other people

within the city. I will put it to you like this. If we were about to go, as

government, to build a Provincial Training Centre, we would be building a

Provincial Training Centre, a box to train in. Nothing for competitions; not for

fans to go in, none of that. Basically, we would build a box that you would

train in, just for athletes. If we partner with this group, the rugby

association on their facility, we would have the training centre plus sport

tourism. That is why ACOA is looking at it. That is why they are interested,

because this would bring people - this facility now, besides us - by the way, I

will make this point, which is why it is a good question.

The number one priority would be for the training of the athletes. In other

words, our teams would get the first option to go in there and have their

training time and practice. Also, it would now - and that is why ACOA would

enter this, is because rugby could have international competition, which they

are always looking at. We could hold national basketball championships, which we

cannot do now. With two facilities we could hold - the Field House and this one.

There is also national volleyball, international volleyball. There would be

boxing. All of those would be a part of that facility.

So, instead of us just building a Provincial Training Centre that

Newfoundland and Labrador athletes train in, now this is expanded to include

sport tourism. Therefore it would benefit the city, because, as you know, sport

tourism is huge and is growing in Newfoundland and Labrador. In St. John's

this year, with the Scott and the other things that came in here, it meant money

for the city. That is why ACOA would be involved and that is why it would be a

benefit to our capital city. Our capital city would have a facility now that

could host national and international events, on top of us having a training

centre for athletes.

MR. JOYCE: There are a few small - not small, but provincially they are

small. I know one in particular, Cox's Cove, they are having a big hill

festival. Is there any funding in tourism to help out with those types of

festivals?

MR. SHELLEY: Well, I have to tell you, we get a lot of requests, as you

can imagine, for festivals.

MR. JOYCE: Oh, I know.

MR. SHELLEY: It is just incredible. So, what we are trying to do, I

guess, is look at some special ones. For example, the Grand Falls Celebration.

Now that is a huge one because it is not just celebrating Grand Falls-Windsor as

a town. The reason why government is interested in that is because it is going

to celebrate 100 years, which is a big milestone in anything. It is going to

celebrate, not just the town, but celebrate the pulp and paper industry of

Newfoundland and Labrador. That is huge and it is going to be bigger. So that is

very special.

Then, in the member's district, the twenty-fifth anniversary of one of the

biggest festivals in the Province, a Fish, Fun and Folk Festival. So if we are

going to look at those lists, we are going to say: how big the lists are. If

there is something in particular - like, come home year. A lot of people have

come home years, but if you started to fund all of those - so we are going to

get them all in this year and have a good look at some special ones. If we think

there is some special reason for hosting some, we will most certainly judge them

on their merits. So, if you have something to put forward - I tell people to put

them all in and we will have a look at them all, but certainly we cannot fund

them all. It is just impossible.

MR. JOYCE: Can you or Mr. Janes give us an update on the games that are

going to be in Humber Valley? Just give us an update?

MR. SHELLEY: Yes, you can go ahead, but things are going well. We are

starting to get things in place and it is going to be great games for the West

Coast, I think. But go ahead, Vic.

MR. JANES: As the minister said, the game planning is moving ahead. They

have hired a games coordinator. I think within a couple of weeks the minister

will be in the area and there will be some announcement made about the actual

sports that will be part of the games out there.

All of the planning, as I said, is moving along quite well. As you know, the

games will be centered in both Deer Lake and Pasadena. Corner Brook, per se,

will not be participating. However, some Corner Brook venues may be used; such

as the Pepsi Centre, they call it, in Corner Brook.

So, things are moving along. There are no glitches. With these announcements

coming up soon, you will see a lot more detail about what is happening, what

will be held where and so on.

MR. JOYCE: Okay. Pardon?

MR. SHELLEY: (Inaudible) so I think we are pretty well on target with it.

MR. JOYCE: Okay, that is it for me for now. Yvonne, do you have a few

questions?

CHAIR: Any further questions?

Ms Jones.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I just have a couple of questions, Minister, that are tourism related, but I

will be doing some Labrador Affairs stuff after. So, when you are ready.

One of the question I have is regarding the ferry rates on the Strait of

Belle Isle service. It is my understanding that they are the highest rates that

are being charged on provincial ferries in the Province and have been that way

for an extended period of time, but it is also my understanding that the numbers

of people using that service has increased tremendously over the last two, three

or four years. I am wondering if government has given any consideration to

having the rates reduced there?

Back in, I think it was the fall before last, when the Minister of

Transportation commissioned a study with the university to look at marine

services in Labrador, one of the things that he did say after that publicly was

that they would also have them look at rate review on the services there, and

that has not occurred on any part of the marine service. So, I am wondering if

there is any consideration been given to it on the ferry component of it?

MR. SHELLEY: Well, first of all, of course, the rates would be in

Transportation, but you are right as far as the numbers increasing and

continuing to increase. So, from a tourism perspective, certainly that would be

a factor in looking at the rates and, of course, the whole economic benefit of

tourism and the number of people using the ferry system now. So, would that be

considered? Absolutely! All things would have to be considered as you progress

and the tourism industry grows in that area, and that would certainly be a

factor, I can tell you that. Certainly, from our point of view, as we, of

course, monitor the whole situation and watch those increases in tourism, that

would be something that I would be willing to discuss.

MS JONES: Okay. Will I be able to get a copy of the ferry rates for all

the provincial ferries in the Province?

MR. SHELLEY: I do not see how that would be a problem. I mean, the rates

are there and transportation. We could make a note to Transportation for you and

that sort of (inaudible).

MS JONES: Yes, and I would also like to get a copy of the statistics on

the Strait of Belle Isle ferry service, the number of users, and I do not know -

MR. SHELLEY: For recent - for what?

MS JONES: I do not know how many years you would have the stats compiled

for, but say for the last five years.

MR. SHELLEY: For the last five years. We will make those requests to

Transportation.

MS JONES: Do you have that, Gary?

MR. SHELLEY: We will make those requests to Transportation for you.

MS JONES: Okay. Also, can you tell me how much revenue was generated on

that ferry service last year? Would that be known through Tourism or through

Transportation?

MR. SHELLEY: No, it would not be known through us. That would known

through Transportation (inaudible).

MS JONES: Destination Labrador, you guys approved $300,000 over three

years. How is that being matched by the federal government, and in what amount?

MR. SHELLEY: The numbers, if I remember off the top - I am sure Vic will

give you the exact ones there - I think it is $1.3 million, approximately, from

the federal government and $300,000 from us; $100,000 for the next three years.

That would reach the ACOA funding, which they said is - of course, we are in

discussions with right now.

Vic, do you want to elaborate on that a little bit?

MR. JANES: Yes. There are three components of the funding package that

was proposed. The federal component, as the minister has just outlined, the

provincial component, but also, the local operators in the area are being asked

to take

part in this as well, and contributed - I think it was $100,000. So,

between those three, but the lion's share, obviously, being sought from the

federal government and it is in the range of $1 million.

MS JONES: What will Destination Labrador do? What is it mandated to do?

MR. SHELLEY: Basically, it puts in the wheels of motion, I guess, of a

final overall package for Labrador, coming together as one, as a destination for

Labrador, as one whole body, I guess you could say. So, it would come from a

marketing strategic point of view and basically putting Labrador as one big icon

for attraction for marketing but also of the whole layout of product

developments and so on. So, basically, it is the whole package of tourism

focused in on Labrador from a tourism perspective.

MS JONES: The money will develop a product package to promote what is

there and it will do the promotion piece as well, the whole marketing piece. Is

that my understanding?

MR. SHELLEY: I will pass that over to Vic.

MR. JANES: Yes, this Labrador package, as of interest, has a marketing

component to it and has a development component to it. It would be looking

across Labrador and at the very regions of Labrador, ensuring that there are

focus development encouraged. Now, obviously, this will mean participation by

it is about operators doing things, but providing the financial resource, some

human resource support so that development pieces can be put on the table and

funding sought for particular projects. That is the type of approach that will

be taken, and once the product of course is developed and evolved, also there

will be a marketing component so you could go out and then market that region.

As you are probably aware, the department does a huge marketing campaign but

our marketing campaign is marketing Newfoundland and Labrador as a whole. We do

not necessarily focus and market a region. We use icons, which you see them as

being from a particular region, such as Western Brook Pond in Gros Morne. We use

that icon, but it is really marketing those out there opportunities that exist

throughout the entire Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. Various regions of

the Province try then to do regional marketing campaigns, drawing attention to

their particular region, to the assets that are there. That is what Destination

Labrador will do from a marketing vein. So it will do both pieces

simultaneously, trying to accommodate all regions of Labrador.

MS JONES: So, will there be a board that oversee Destination Labrador?

MR. JANES: There is a board in place. There was an interim board that

developed the actual program and yes, there will be a board in place that will

be made up of reps from all parts of Labrador. Also, reps from the provincial

government and from the federal government. So all agencies that are directly

involved will be sitting on this board.

MS JONES: Will the work be contracted or will you hire staff to do it or

what?

MR. JANES: The plan right now is that they will seek to have staff in

each of the regions of Labrador, but also a lot of the work that gets done will,

in fact, be done via contract with - for example, if it was a marketing piece,

it could be an actual marketing firm that would be retained to do market

development pieces and so on, so there would be a combination of staff on the

ground and contracts as required.

MS JONES: When will that funding start to flow?

OFFICIAL: As you know, we have made our commitment of money for this year

and for the next three years. There is still dialogue going on with ACOA and the

federal government. Until they have made a final determination, I do not expect

that any money will flow because you really need the full package together. I

don't think putting our money on the table right now to begin expenditures

without knowing what the full picture is, of the financial resources available

to you, probably would not be the best approach. So, we are trying to work with

the board of Destination Labrador and with the parties involved to try to

facilitate getting that other money that is required to make the program start.

MR. SHELLEY: We have already met with ACOA (inaudible) and expedite it as

quickly as we can; because, as the deputy says, it cannot go apart, it has to go

whole, so we have to be there and ACOA has to be there at the same time.

MS JONES: How much funding does the Department of Tourism put into

gateways and information centres in the Province right now?

MR. SHELLEY: We can get the exact number there, but I can tell you that

the whole gateway system and that is being reviewed right now, as far as where

we can focus on gateways and visitor information centres. I don't know if you

were here at the beginning when we talked about visitor information centres, but

we - I don't think she was, right?

OFFICIAL: (Inaudible).

MR. SHELLEY: No.

In this year's budget, one of the first things we have done and focussed

on, and one of the biggest complaints, I guess, you could say, that we got last

year, is that this year we can open the visitor information centres earlier and

they will close later, so we have extended on both ends. Also, through our

visitor information centre study which has just been completed, which we have

now and we are looking at, is the whole idea of gateways, and settling the

gateways; and, of course, Southern Labrador being one of them. In the next

little while we will be coming out with a full strategy of how we move on and

develop those, but that is what is being focussed in as gateways. You can expand

on that if you want to, Vic.

CHAIR: Mr. Janes.

MR. JANES: The money that we put into the actual, let's call them local

visitor information centres as opposed to centres that are run provincially -

because there is a separation - we operate seven centres ourselves, directly,

and we support another twenty-some odd throughout the Province. In some cases we

consider the ones that we run as being provincial gateways, such as Port aux

Basques. Where the majority of the rubber tire traffic coming to the Province

comes through the airport in St. John's, it is obviously a significant

gateway, but there are also regional gateways.

In the past, we have had about $70,000 annually that has been divided amongst

the twenty-odd regional gateways that exist throughout the Province. The grant

in any given year has been in the order of $3,000 to $4,000. This current year,

with the budget that is in place as a result of our visitor information study,

we intend to identify more of the regional gateways. I am sure, as you are

aware, in terms of a regional gateway, the facility in the Straits of Labrador

is just that, a regional gateway, and access to The Straits and to the South

Coast area. We are looking at a program this year that will provide additional

resource to that as result of some enhancements in the budget. We are still

working out the details of how we will support them, but we are recognizing

these regional gateways a little more in the budget this year.

MS JONES: So, you have seven provincially run gateway centres. Then you

have twenty, what, community-based centres?

MR. JANES: That is correct.

MS JONES: Then, how many regional ones do you have, you said?

MR. JANES: No, that is -

MS JONES: That is the regional.

MR. JANES: That is the package, those two types.

MS JONES: Okay.

Can I get a list of where those gateways are? Is any gateway in Labrador

being funded through the provincial government right now?

MR. JANES: When you say gateway, in last year's budget -

MS JONES: The tourism information centres. I do not know what the proper

terminology is.

MR. JANES: When we talk about gateways, we are talking about a type of

visitor information centre which is an obvious access point to a geographic

region and therefore it serves as a gateway when people approach that region and

are ready to go and do their tourist thing throughout. So, the facility on The

Straits, of course, as I said, would be a gateway and access point.

Now, in the past, we did not identify those and provide additional funding.

They were funded the same way as any of the twenty-odd regional or

community-based centres were funded. This current year we are looking at trying

to enhance that, recognizing, I think, the study called for ten areas where

clearly there were regional access points, and we are trying to develop a

program this year with some resource that we have to enhance the funding and

support to those facilities.

MS JONES: Well, I would like for government to consider including the

Labrador Straits as one of the provincial tourism information centres, and for a

number of reasons. One is that we are the gateway to Labrador from the Island

portion of the Province, so, from a provincial perspective, but also from the

rest of Canada through Quebec. In the last two years we have had a regular ferry

service now that operates from the Province of Quebec coming into Blanc Sablon

on a weekly basis, and this has certainly enhanced the tourism opportunities for

people in that area. In addition to that, in the last three to four years, we

have had the road open up, having more people coming out through Western

Labrador and Central Labrador through that area of the Province and, vice versa,

from the Island.

I think the numbers that are there now will generate the statistical

information, one, that government would require to do this, but I think the

amount of activity in the area itself warrants this kind of a service. I would

think that most areas in the Province that would be in a position that we are in

right now would already have that kind of infrastructure. I would like to ask

that it be considered in your review that you are doing within the department.

I have a question as well with regard to the auditorium in Happy Valley-Goose

Bay, or the auditorium for Labrador as we refer to it. I know my colleague for

the Bay of Islands raised this. Minister, you have said it yourself, and you

have said it again tonight, there is a growing industry in the arts and in

culture in this Province. I cannot help it, but in Labrador right now people are

feeling that they have really been neglected from a cultural perspective by this

government simply because of the failure to meet their expectations when it came

to an auditorium.

I do not know why the government is just so insistent on not making more of

an effort to deal with this particular infrastructure. I say that because it has

been two years. A year ago, when it was deferred in the Budget, I think for a

lot of people, myself included, I did not like it but I was willing to accept it

in terms of giving the government an opportunity, just coming in, to get their

books in order, to straighten themselves out, to look at a plan for them, as a

new Administration, in what they would do. I could tolerate waiting another year

for something to happen here.

This year, I think, people built their hopes and expectations around it, and

they were severely let down. I do not accept the argument that this has to be a

federally cost-shared infrastructure. If it can be, that is great. Never turn

down a dollar wherever you can get it. At the same time, I just have not seen

the commitment, either, from government when it comes to this piece of

infrastructure. I can tell you that the arts community in Labrador is as vibrant

and alive and strong as it is in any other part of this Province. They are very

proud of their culture and of their heritage, and they want to have a stage to

be able to perform it on. Right now, they do not have that and I think it is

unfair.

I can tell you that it was very frustrating for people in Labrador to sit

through a Budget that talked about investing more arts money into Western

Newfoundland, more money into the arts community in St. John's, money into

doing the sports complex and all these things, when they did not even get a look

in. I just cannot explain to you the level of frustration that is there over

this particular issue, not just for the 800 children who are in Mealy Mountain

Academy but for all the children in Labrador who participate in the arts program

and the drama program.

All I can say to you is that I know, as Minister of Tourism, you may not have

been all that involved in this particular initiative, but now, as the Minister

for Labrador as well, the expectation has certainly been placed within your

hands that this is going to get dealt with, and dealt with appropriately.

MR. SHELLEY: First of all, I appreciate your comments because, I can tell

you right off the top, I have gotten first-hand how people in Labrador feel

about this issue. First-hand. As a matter of fact, the day after the Budget I

was hoping to get into Goose Bay, actually, but I could not - there were flight

problems - but we had a teleconference and the group talked very candidly and

frank about how they felt about it, so I have gotten that message up front. I

certainly do appreciate where they are coming from.

Over the last year or so, as Tourism Minister, I have certainly been in that

area and other parts of Labrador, and know how important it is to the young

people there. You are right, I am more involved, I guess you can say, from a

Tourism, Culture and Recreation point of view, but also now as the Minister

Responsible for Labrador Affairs. All I can say to you is that I have taken it

very seriously. I have the file, basically, I guess, in my hands at this point,

and I will just say this to you: From a budget perspective for this year, what

was said no to was a $4.2 million - as you know, it escalated, because of the

price of steel, from $3.1 million to $4.2 million now, and the only commitment

was $300,000. So, as far as the actual numbers for the budget, it was a $4.2

million facility with $300,000 from the federal government.

You might say about the federal government contribution, I don't think that

is good enough. I never did think it was good enough, even if it stayed at $3.1

million, for a $300,000 commitment from the federal government. As a matter of

fact, I think, in my meetings that I have had with federal ministers, they also

believe that there could be more from a federal government perspective.

Certainly, I think you would agree with that.

I am going to pursue those dollars aggressively. I am looking at three

options that are on the table, and I have discussed this with the group: the

actors theatre at the base, an addition to the school for a theatre, and an

addition to the community college. Those are the three options we are looking

at, where we have had engineers do some work, still ongoing right now, to look

at quickly - I am not talking about a year or a two year wait. I am talking

about trying very quickly, within weeks or certainly within months, to find out

all the cost for all of those options, and, as we look at each one of those

options, to continue the dialogue I am having with federal ministers, which is

still ongoing, basically, to look at the three options and further contribution

- substantial contribution - by the federal government, which I think the door

is open to, and hopefully working with the people on the ground up there in the

not-too-distant future, I mean before this summer, and give them some direction

or some indication of where we can go with those options and what the cost would

be both from a provincial and a federal perspective, and still deal with the

whole fact that we need a facility in Goose Bay for the whole of Labrador.

I can only reiterate and say to you again that the file is still open and I

am still working on the options with the federal government and ourselves, as a

government, to try to find a resolve to the matter. That is the most I can say

at this point.

MS JONES: I do not have any other questions on tourism.

CHAIR: Any further questions now from Committee members?

MR. JOYCE: One last question, Mr. Chairman.

CHAIR: Mr. Joyce.

MR. SHELLEY: No more grants.

MR. JOYCE: No, on the mandatory sticker (inaudible) public hearings.

People are asking me if you are going to have the public hearings on the West

Coast. What will I tell them publicly?

MR. SHELLEY: Right now we are considering a public consultation process

through a variety of ways. If there is a public consultation process, whether it

be through whichever forum we take, they will be all over the Province.

MR. JOYCE: There will be public consultation somehow?

MR. SHELLEY: Yes, and we will see how those fold out in the next few

months.

CHAIR: Any further questions?

MR. JOYCE: Yvonne has some on Labrador. Yvonne, do you have some Labrador

ones?

MR. SHELLEY: Go ahead.

I did not have opening remarks on Labrador, but I could make a couple - not a

lot, I guess - instead of going into detail. Certainly, you have the Estimates

there and so on. We are still divided, as far as I will be doing Labrador

Affairs and Minister Rideout will be doing Aboriginal Affairs. This is four

weeks now that I have been the minister responsible for this.

CHAIR: Maybe we will vote on the Tourism, Culture and Recreation

Estimates first, and then we will go to Labrador Affairs.

There are no further questions on the Tourism, Culture and Recreation

Department Estimates, so I will ask the Clerk to call the subheads.

CLERK: Subheads 1.1.01. to 5.1.01. inclusive.

CHAIR: Subheads 1.1.01. to 5.1.01. inclusive.

All those in favour, aye'.

OFFICIALS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, nay'.

OFFICIAL: Nay.

CHAIR: Carried.

On motion, subheads 1.1.01. through 5.1.01. carried.

CHAIR: Shall the total carry?

All those in favour, aye'.

OFFICIALS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, nay'.

OFFICIALS: Nay.

CHAIR: Carried.

Shall the 2005-2006 Estimates for the Department of Tourism, Culture and

Recreation carry without amendment?

All those in favour, aye'.

OFFICIALS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, nay'.

OFFICIALS: Nay

CHAIR: Carried.

On motion, Department of Tourism, Culture and Recreation, total heads,

carried.

CHAIR: Okay, we will deal with the Labrador Affairs

section now of the

department, on page 53. I will ask the Clerk to call the subhead.

CLERK: 1.1.01.

CHAIR: 1.1.01.

Mr. Minister.

MR. SHELLEY: Well, as I said, I will not do a long

preamble into this,

just to say that I have been in this portfolio for four weeks now and I am

trying to get caught up and catch up on all the issues of Labrador, which are so

many, but I believe at the same time, although there are challenges there is a

lot of opportunity. We are going to take on one at a time and deal with them and

I will learn more and more as I go, I guess, Mr. Chair. So I will leave it open

for questions.

CHAIR: Okay. I know we have had some questions already on Labrador

Affairs. Are there any further questions?

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I would certainly like to congratulate the minister on his new appointment as

the Minister for Labrador Affairs.

Just a couple of questions with regard to the numbers in the Estimates and

then I have some general questions as well.

Under

section 2.1.02, Purchased Services was budgeted at $120,000. I am just

wondering, what services were provided out of that budget?

MR. SHELLEY: I am sorry, I did not hear you. 2.1.02?

MS JONES: 2.1.02, yes.

MR. SHELLEY: 06, under Purchased Services. What was the question? I did

not hear you.

MS JONES: The $120,00, what was that spent on?

MR. SHELLEY: The $120,000 on 2.1.02. Okay. I am sorry, I did not hear you

very good. That is for the offices in Happy Valley. That is for the lease, I

believe.

MS JONES: Okay. The Grants and Subsidies was over budgeted by $83,000.

Why was that?

MR. SHELLEY: That was because, now the food lift subsidy and the trail

grooming grants, instead of Transportation and Works, it comes into Labrador

Affairs now. So it is administered through us. It was always in collaboration,

in co-operation with those two. Now, it will not be in the budget for

Transportation and Works, it will be under Labrador Affairs, food lifts.

MS JONES: That was the Labrador food subsidy.

MR. SHELLEY: Right, which was $300,000, and $240,000 for the trail

grooming grants. The same amount that has always been there under Transportation

and Works.

MS JONES: Okay. A budget of five hundred - wait now. All right, just

forget that one.

MR. SHELLEY: Okay.

MS JONES: The Lower Churchill proposals, how many proposals have been

received on the Lower Churchill?

MR. SHELLEY: The last number I have, I believe, is twenty-five.

MS JONES: Okay. What is the time frame around the assessment of those

proposals and stuff?

MR. SHELLEY: I do not really know the time frame around those but I can

get that information for you. I do not have the time frames on them but I can

get that through the Premier's office.

MS JONES: Can you provide me with a list of who the proposals are from?

MR. SHELLEY: Pardon?

MS JONES: The proponents, can you provide me with a list of who they are,

the twenty-five?

MR. SHELLEY: No, that request would go to the Premier's office and he

would decide when those are available.

MS JONES: How much money was collected in the 2004-2005 year on the sale

of recall power on the Upper Churchill?

MR. SHELLEY: I would not be able to answer that but I can certainly get

you that information, anything on the Lower Churchill, because that is one of

the, I guess, updates that I am continuing to get. In this last four weeks we do

not have all that information but any requests on that file I would certainly

take it under advisement here and get you the answers that we can.

MS JONES: I would like to know how much government profited on the sale

of recall power? I think last year they sold ninety megawatts of the 120. I

would also like to know how much revenue they earned under the Winter

Availability Contract?

MR. SHELLEY: I will take it upon - to request for that information

through the Minister of Natural Resources, of course.

MS JONES: What has government's involvement been with regard to 5 Wing

Goose Bay?

MR. SHELLEY: Government's involvement?

MS JONES: The provincial government.

MR. SHELLEY: As you know, as far back as - the Premier's involvement

and the member from there attended the - in Berlin, I think is the right

location, if I remember right - and had some meetings in Berlin at the trade

show there with potential people that would avail of the Goose Bay site. Of

course, we have been involved with the federal government. As a matter of fact,

in the next little while myself and the new Minister of Intergovernmental

Affairs will be meeting with McCallum and Graham to get an update on where the

federal government has been now with, as far marketing and as far as the

Department of National Defence is with potential other clients for 5 Wing. I

will try to get involved in that file as much as possible now, knowing how

important it is to all of Labrador. I will be active with the federal ministers

and, of course, the people in Goose Bay to try and get some answers.

MS JONES: Is your government concerned at all about what may happen on

that base if the feds do not soon deliver on an operational requirement for the

long-term for Goose Bay?

MR. SHELLEY: Very, very concerned. As a matter of fact, I am just getting

more updates now. We all know anyway, from history, of how important that base

has been to Goose Bay and to the entire Province. We have to see some long-term

commitments. That is our goal, to get long-term commitments.

As I said, I will be dealing with Minister McCallum, who has been the lead

federal minister now, and the Prime Minister, involved with this, and to make

sure that we reiterate again, which we have many times already, including the

Premier and other ministers, to reiterate the point that a long-term solution is

what is required here. Also, to reiterate the point that time is running out. As

you know, in 2006 is when the last of the agreement ends. We have to have some

answers very soon to find out where we are going to go with the situation in

Goose Bay.

MS JONES: Has your government considered at all establishing a marketing

division in Goose Bay to market the base to European nations?

MR. SHELLEY: The marketing right now, of course, is with the Department

of National Defence. That is what, actually, their mandate is to do and I

understand they are pursuing it right now. I guess how vigorously they are

pursuing that is a question we all have. That is one of the reasons for the

meetings, to find out where they are exactly with that initiative as far as

marketing, what responses they are getting back and to get updated of where they

are. I think the timing is right now because they have been, supposedly,

pursuing that for the last number of months. I think that is one of the

questions that we will have for those federal ministers, where they are with the

marketing from the Department of National Defence perspective.

MS JONES: One of the biggest impediments that the base in Goose Bay face,

in terms of marketing to any allied country, is the operating cost, the energy

cost of operating the base. You would know, as I do, that a lot of the base is

being run on diesel power as opposed to transmitted power from the Churchill.

Has your government given any consideration to running a second transmission

line into Goose Bay in order to allow for the availability of more electricity

in that area?

MR. SHELLEY: In the natural resources - and you are right, it comes from

both diesel and hydro. There is an energy strategy we put in place now, and of

course that is one of the things, I guess, that would be considered.

MS JONES: So Labrador is being looked at under that energy strategy?

MR. SHELLEY: Well, the whole Province is being looked at under that

energy strategy. That is the whole purpose of putting something in place, so

that we can look at long-term solutions which affect, as Goose Bay and other

parts of the Province through an energy strategy.

MS JONES: Okay. I want to talk a little bit about the marine services for

Labrador. Will there be any changes this year with regard to the configuration

of ships being used and the destinations on the marine services?

MR. SHELLEY: No, there are none being looked at for this year, but that

is a more appropriate question I think that you would have to ask the Minister

of Transportation.

MS JONES: Okay, because I was aware that the court case which was

launched by the owners of the Astron , that they had indeed won their

case, which meant that government would have to pay out the remuneration on the

contract. So, I guess my question is: Has any consideration been given to

putting that vessel back in operation in Labrador for this season?

MR. SHELLEY: They are under contract to Voisey's Bay.

MS JONES: Yes, they are, but still government has to pay out a contract

to them even though they are not providing the service to us.

MR. SHELLEY: Well, under that one, I would have to take that under

advisement to ask Minister Rideout to update us on where they are with that

particular issue now.

MS JONES: Okay. Will the Sir Robert Bond continue to operate in

and out of Lewisporte this year?

MR. SHELLEY: There has been no change on that, as far as I understand,

but again, we will get that reconfirmed through the Minister of Transportation.

We will certainly get that answer for you.

MS JONES: Will the money for that portion of the service be paid out of

the Labrador Transportation Fund?

MR. SHELLEY: That is what I understand. What I will do, I will say to the

member, some of these questions are overlapping, as you know, with Labrador

Affairs and Transportation and so on. So the best that I can tell you at this

point, for the purpose of this Estimate meeting, is that any of those questions

which overlap like that, I will make note of your questions and at the overlap I

will ask the appropriate ministers and we will get you an answer.

MS JONES: All right, I appreciate that.

As the Minister now for Labrador Affairs, you would sit on the Labrador

Transportation Fund, I assume?

MR. SHELLEY: I am not sure. I will find out that for you. I do not think

they have been updated to this point. So what I will do, is confirm that and

find out exactly what the setup is for that.

MS JONES: I would like to have a breakdown of the funds that are being

distributed under the Labrador Transportation Fund for this year, and, I would

assume, that would come through your department, but I guess you have to confirm

that you are still on the committee, is it?

MR. SHELLEY: Exactly. I mean, I will confirm that and we will take that

question -

MS JONES: Well, when the fund was established it was established in

legislation, and the legislation said that the Minister for Labrador Affairs

would be one of the members on that fund and would be a decision-making member,

along with the deputy minister for that department.

MR. SHELLEY: Yes, that is right.

MS JONES: Also, in the absence of a deputy, I guess, it would be Sean as

acting deputy?

MR. SHELLEY: The assistant deputy would be as the acting, yes, and we

assume that those confirmations will be made in a short while now so he can

settle into this portfolio.

MS JONES: With regard to the ferry services on the Strait of Belle Isle,

as you know, people have been lobbying to get the ferry reinstated early this

year because there is no ice in the Labrador Straits. The ice has been moved out

for a couple of weeks now and fishing boats are travelling back and forth across

The Straits on a daily basis but we are having to fly all of our goods and

services in, which is very expensive at this time of the year, and we have been

without a ferry since January 9. I am wondering if you would intervene, as the

Minister of Labrador Affairs with the Minister of Transportation and Works and

the Premier, to try and have that ferry service put in place earlier this year?

It is already April 18, so we realize, even if they were to make a decision

within the next day or two, that the earliest would be a week earlier.

MR. SHELLEY: First of all, yes, May 1 is the latest I have heard for the

service to start up. Yes, I have had some calls from, especially the Southern

Labrador region, to put forward some of their views and concerns. You are right

about the ice conditions, they are favourable now. So that is something for the

minister to consider. I will bring forward those view and points that were

raised to me as the Labrador Affairs Minister now, and Minister Rideout will be

making decisions on that, I guess, in the not too distant future.

MS JONES: Have you been involved in any discussions with regard to the

Trans-Labrador Highway

section between Red Bay and Lodge Bay, and what

government is proposing to do to try and fix, I guess, some of the problems that

exist there with that road?

MR. SHELLEY: Yes.

As you know, there have been a number of concerns with that road, especially,

of course, in the winter, and the cuts and so on. There are a bunch of issues

surrounding that and, understanding that there are a number of problems, I will

be continuing discussions with the minister in trying to hopefully alleviate

some of those issues with that particular road.

MS JONES: You guys did a study on the tunnel across the Strait of Belle

Isle. How much money did you spend on that study?

MR. SHELLEY: I will get the exact amount. I do not have it in front of

me, but certainly I will get the exact amount and give it to you. I would be

trying to recall it, if I did it now, so I will get you the exact number.

MS JONES: I know that government has already decided to dismiss the

recommendations of the study, or at least not to go ahead with the

infrastructure. Can you tell me if there was a component of that study that

looked at the ice conditions, the density of ice, and whatever other tidal

factors of ice, as part of that study?

MR. SHELLEY: I would say that the ice conditions would certainly have

been a part of that study. I will get that information for you, for sure, but

that would all be part of the study, I would understand.

MS JONES: If there was a study that included an ice component, I would

like to have a copy of it, if that can be made available.

I guess, just getting back to the road again, just to finish my questions on

that, this year has been - we have had a very trying time with the Department of

Transportation and Works with regard to that

section of highway. People are

tolerant when a road has to be closed and there is no way to keep it open. That

was not the case for most of this year. People really felt that not enough

effort was being made by the department to keep that

section of road open.

The only thing that I can ask, I guess, in your capacity as the Minister for

Labrador Affairs, is, I want you to pay more attention to what has been

happening with transportation in Labrador. I would like to have confidence in

the department and in the minister to do what is right and best, in the interest

of people there, but I have not seen it in the last two years.

I can honestly tell you that, walking into this new capacity that you are

going into, you will find that, in Labrador, transportation, next to Aboriginal

Affairs, is probably the most contentious issue that you will be faced with. It

is very important that people have an opportunity to discuss these issues with

people within government. On a number of occasions in my district the Chambers

of Commerce and development boards have requested meetings with the Minister of

Transportation on this issue. They did not get the meetings they wanted. They

did not get answers to their correspondence and, in my mind, that is not good

enough.

I can only ask that, in your capacity, you give some special attention to

this and try and make the time, when you are in the area, to meet with them on

issues of transportation and bring the message back to government. I hope that

you will do that and be understanding to what their needs are, and to try and

push it inside your own government.

MR. SHELLEY: Just a comment on that first of all. I know how important

transportation is. As a matter of fact, it overrides every single issue in

Labrador. We have been told that time and time again. I understand it fully, and

the Minister of Transportation understands it fully. I am going to be working

closely with my colleague. As a matter fact, in my first few weeks in this

portfolio, working with the minister on the situation with clearing the road, he

was very helpful. As a matter of fact, as you know, we have been successful in

moving that forward and speeding it up, and I have to thank the minister for

that.

That was one issue that I worked with him on. I am going to continue to work

with him on other issues and, of course, do my job in bringing forward the views

of people throughout Labrador on their issues. I am certainly looking forward to

taking on those challenges and working with the government in solving a lot of

those issues.

MS JONES: Just a couple of more short questions and then I will be able

to clue up.

Can you tell me how many staff are now employed with the Department of

Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs, and if they are permanent, seasonal, full-time,

contractual, part-time, whatever the case may be, and also how many employees

have been laid off in that department in the last year?

MR. SHELLEY: I am pretty sure - we will get you on the follow-up, but

there are seven employees there now. We will break down exactly the numbers for

you but there are seven staff there, as I understand, right now.

MR. DUTTON: In the Goose Bay office in Labrador Affairs there are seven

employees. In Aboriginal Affairs, I think, you also asked about, which is in St.

John's, there are, I believe, thirteen. Most of the employees have permanent

status. I believe (inaudible) that are assigned temporarily to other positions

within the department.

I guess, in the last twelve months, there have been no layoffs. I think there

was one employee that was bumped as a result of layoffs in another department.

That has been the only change in the department since that time.

MS JONES: The government announced in the budget $200,000 to do a study

on long-term care for Happy Valley-Goose Bay. Can you tell me who is going to

complete the study, and when it will be done?

MR. SHELLEY: There is $200,000 and it is basically for the conceptual

drawing of a facility. I can find out exactly when it will be done. I will get

an answer for that for you. I cannot answer it here tonight, but I will

certainly take it on to find out exactly when that will be done and report it

back to you.

MS JONES: Do you know how many bed facility that is?

MR. SHELLEY: No, I do not, not at this time.

There were studies done, as you know, before, but not the conceptional

drawing. What we are talking about now is the actual makeup of the building and

so on.

MS JONES: It was originally applied for a seventy-bed facility, but I

thought that might have been -

MR. SHELLEY: Yes, through the study.

MS JONES: Yes, I thought it might have been cut down to fifty. I do not

know why I think that.

MR. SHELLEY: I will find out those numbers for you, and confirm it.

MS JONES: One other thing, and that is on the Labrador medical travel

program.

MR. SHELLEY: Yes.

MS JONES: In September, as part of the health accord, I guess, the

federal government did a transfer on northern medical travel benefits to

provinces in northern regions of the country. Included in that was money for

Labrador, for a travel program. In the Budget, the Premier did roll it out this

year, which, to my dismay, was several months later, which I did not think was

good enough. The program in itself, I think, is still placing a great deal of

barriers in place for Labrador people, and I will tell you why. The way they

rolled the program out is: basically, you would have to travel from Goose Bay,

Lab City, Cartwright, or Nain, wherever, to St. John's to a hospital. You

would have to pay all of the cost up front yourself. After you finished your

medical appointments, went back to your home community, then you could fill out

a form whereby you would claim back a portion of your money.

The problem that I have with that, and I made it known to the health board

and to others prior to government taking a decision on it, is that most of the

people that I deal with in Labrador are not in a position to be able to pay for

this amount of money up front. That has been the problem we have had in the

past. Even though they are going to be able to claim it back and get a

remuneration on their money over a two-month period or whatever, still, they

have to go somewhere else to find it in the first place. A lot of people do not

have anywhere to go to get it. They do not have family members they can borrow

it from.

I talked to the Department of Human Resources and Employment about this and,

unless they are an eligible client of the department, they cannot loan them the

money and have them pay it back. They have to be eligible first, as a dependent

of the system. Therefore, people who are basically working and on a low income,

or a normal wage but they do not have the necessary funds, are still not going

to be able to use the service. That is a problem.

One of the things I asked the health board to do - I do not know if they did

not do it, but it certainly was not the outcome - was to set it up so that

people could go through the health boards and the service be made available to

them. So, if you have to pay a $500 deductible, then that is what you would pay

to the board or whatever the case may be. Anyway, that did not happen.

It is still a barrier for a lot of people because, as you know, the airline

cost in itself is anywhere from $1,000 to $1,200 or $1,300 return, depending on

what region of Labrador you are coming from. Then there is the cost of staying

in a hostel, getting around St. John's, all that kind of stuff, so it is still

a pretty high price for people to have to pay out of their pockets up front.

The program itself is just getting started now. I have had a lot of calls

about it, but there has not been a lot of public information available on it. In

the budget they announced that the program itself would be $567,000 I think the

number was. I am just trying to recall it off the top of my head. I am wondering

if all that money was federal money or if there was some provincial money

combined with that.

MR. SHELLEY: First of all, I will find out that last question you asked.

You made a few comments there, but I will certainly find out what the breakdown

of federal-provincial is.

As far as the concern you raised, it is a legitimate one, because I know,

with the cost of airlines and so on, that would be a huge impact and a lot of

people certainly cannot afford it. So, what I will do is, I made some notes of

your concerns with that and I will get an update from the appropriate minister

and try to let you know some ways how maybe we can resolve that, or some ways

that we can help some of those people with the up-front costs. If there is

anything there at this point, I will find out that for you, but I will bring

that concern to the minister for you.

MS JONES: All right, I appreciate that.

Those are all the questions I have, Mr. Chairman.

I would like to thank you, Minister, and Mr. Dutton. I appreciate it.

MR. SHELLEY: Thank you.

CHAIR: Any further questions from the Committee members?

Mr. Joyce.

MR. JOYCE: Before I go, Mr. Chairman, I just want to thank the minister

and his staff.

I know over the year that I have had a lot of co-operation from the staff and

the department, so I just want to thank the minister and the staff for the

co-operation that I have received for the District of the Bay of Islands over

the last year.

CHAIR: I will ask the Clerk to call the subheads now.

CLERK: Subheads 1.1.01., 1.2.01. and 2.1.02.

CHAIR: Subheads 1.1.01., 1.2.01 and 2.1.02.

Shall the subheads carry?

All those in favour, aye'.

OFFICIALS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

On motion, subheads 1.1.01., 1.2.01 and 2.1.02. carried.

CHAIR: Shall the total carry?

All those in favour, aye'.

OFFICIALS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

Shall the Estimates for the Department of Labrador Affairs for 2005-2006

carry without amendment?

All those in favour, aye'.

OFFICIALS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

On motion, Department of Labrador Affairs, total heads, carried without

amendment.

CHAIR: That pretty well concludes this session. I would like to thank the

minister and his officials for providing the information that they provided

tonight. I would also like to thank the Committee members, as well as our Clerk

and our Page and our media people whom we do not see.

I don't know if the minister has any concluding comments on anything.

MR. SHELLEY: No, that is fine. I think we have covered it.

CHAIR: Okay.

Thank you very much.

We have the minutes circulated, of the meeting that we held this morning, so

I would like to have a motion now to adopt the minutes.

So moved by Mr. O'Brien, seconded by Mr. Joyce, that the minutes as

circulated for this morning's meeting be adopted.

All those in favour, aye'.

OFFICIALS: Aye.

All those against, nay'.

Carried.

On motion, minutes adopted as circulated.

CHAIR: Just one other thing.

Our next meeting for the Resource Committee will be tomorrow morning in the

Committee room at 9:00 a.m. We will be debating the Estimates for the Department

of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development.

Do I have a motion to adjourn?

Motion to adjourn moved by Mr. Hunter.

This meeting now stands adjourned.

On motion, the Committee adjourned.