Manitoba Hansard — 17 November 1980 (Sitting 3A, 31st Legislature, 5th Session)

31-5-3a

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Monday, 15 December, 1980. Time - 2:00 p. m. OPENING PRAYER by Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER, Hon. Harry E. Graham (Birtle Russell): I should like to, at this time, apologize for an error in printing that occurred under the Private Members' Resolutions. Resolution No. 3 should be Mr. Desjard ins and not Mr. Cowan as it was originally printed. Presenting Petitions . . . Reading and Receiving Petitions ... PRESENTING REPORTS BY STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES MR. SPEAKER: The Ho nourable Member for Crescentwood. MR. WARREN STEEN: Mr.

Sp eaker, I beg to present the fi rst report of the Standing Committee on Statutor y Regulations and Orders. MR. CLERK: Your Committee met for organization on October 28, 1980, and agreed to hold public hearings as follows: Winnipeg - November 17 and 18, 1980 Brandon - November 24, 1980 (November 25, if necessary) Swan River -N ovember 26, 1980 Thompson - December 1, 1980 (December 2, if necessary) At the conclusion of the meeting of November 18, 1980, your Committee agreed to hold further public hearings in Winnipeg on December 8 and 9, 1980.

Your Commit tee heard representat ion from organizations and private citizens as follo ws: WINNIPEG, Room 254 Legislative Building MONDAY, NOVEMBER 17, 1980 Dr. F. P. Doyle - Private Citizen(Ste. Anne) Sidney Gr een - M.L.A. Vaughan Baird, Q.C. - Private Citizen Reeve Dennis Heeney - Private Citizen (Brandon) Mrs. Edna Graham - Private Citizen (Pinawa) Mr. Lorne Parker - Private Citizen Mr. Jeffrey Plant - Private Citizen Mr. Vie Savino - Law Union of Manitoba Prof. A. R. Kear - Private Citizen W. Ross - Communist Party of Canada Dennis A.

Epps, President) Waiter Kuhl ) - Western Canada Foundation TUES DAY, NOVEMBER 18, 1980 Mrs. Gil bert Pr oteau - So ciete Franco- Manitobaine Mr. Don Scott - Private Citizen Evelyn Wyrzykowski) Bernadette Russell) - Catholic Women's League Georges Forest - Private Citizen Dennis Cyr - Private Citizen BRANDON, Agricultural Extension Centre MONDAY, NOVEMBER 24, 1980 William C. Pearson, Q.C. - Private Citizen Joe Thomassen - Private Citizen Marion McNabb - Manitoba Women's Institute Keith Baker - Gr oup of Concerned Citizens Marlene Michalski - West-Man League for Lif e Beverley J. Peters) Carol E.

Potter ) - Manitoba Action Committee on Status of Women Ray Howard - Private Citizen SWAN RIVER, Legion Hall WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 26, 1980 Leonard Harapiuk - Private Citizen Con Artibise - Private Citizen Alice Alien - Private Citizen Ed Dobbyn - Private Citizen Kelly Kirkpatrick - Private Citizen Kenneth Carron - Private Citizen Dr. Go rdon Ritchie - Private Citizen Daniel Jamieson - Private Citizen THOMPSON, Legion Hall MONDAY, DECEMBER 1, 1980 Paul Jackson - Private Citizen Bob Mayer - Private Citizen Mrs. Marion Hodge - Private Citizen Mrs.

Joan Wright - Group of Concerned Citizens WINNIPEG, Room 254 Legislative Building MONDAY, DECEMBER 8, 1980 Professor Go rdon Rothney - Private Citizen Charles Lamont - Private Citizen Berenice Sisler - Private Citizen C. H. Templeton - Private Citizen Marjorie Blankstein) David Matas ) - Winnipeg Jewish Community Council G ary Gilmour - Manitoba Cham bers of Commerce Alex Berkowits - Private Citizen Georg ia Cordes - Private Citizen Donald Brock - Manitoba Cat holic School Trustees - Association I.

Hlynka - Ukrainian Canadian Committee TU ESDAY, DECEMBER 9, 1980 Murray Smith ) Linda MacDowell) - Manitoba Teachers' Society W. F. Gr een -Alerted Canadians Alliance Carl Ridd - Chur ch So ciety Committee, Manitoba Conf erence, United Church Abe Arnold ) Jill Oliver) - Manitoba Ass ociation for Rights Paul Walsh ) and Liberties G. F. Reimer ) A. F. Kris tjansso n) - Winnipeg Chamber of Commerce Mrs. Friesen - Private Citizen 19 Adele Smith - Private Citizen

Monday, 15 December, 1980 Mrs. Asta Asselstine - Private Citizen Roger Barsy - Private Citizen Muriel Smith - Private Citizen Your Committee met on Monday, December 8, 1980 with members of a Com mittee from the Legislature of the Province of Alberta and charged wit h the respo nsib ility of looking into matters pertaining to constitutional refo rm. Your Committee accepted the resignations of the following members of the Committee: Mr. PARASIUK - November 24, 1980 Mr. STEEN -N ovember 26, 1980 Hon. Mr. GOURL AY - November 26, 1980 Hon. Mr. MERCIER - December 8, 1980 Mr.

FILMON - December 8, 1980 Your Commi ttee approved the fo llowing appointments to the Committee: Hon. Mr. GOURL AY - November 26, 1980 Mr. STEEN - December 1, 1980 Mr. PARASIUK - December 1, 1980 Mr. FILMON - December 8, 1980 Hon. Mr. MERCIER - December 9, 1980 Your Comm ittee has not final ized its recommendations to the Legislature with respect to the matters referr ed to it and, the refor e , recommends that it be permitted to continue its work under the same conditions as were authorized under the Resolution agreed to on July 29, 1980. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Crescentwood. MR. STEEN: Mr.

Speaker, I move, seconded by the Honourable Member for Minnedosa that the report of the Committee be received. MOTION presented and carried. MR. SPEAKER: The Honour able Member for Minnedosa. MR. DAVID BLAKE: Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the Member for Rhineland, I'm pleased to present the first report of the Standing Committee on Privileges and Elections MR. SPEAKER: Proceed. MR. CLERK: Your committee met on Tuesday, Octo ber 14, 1980, to conside r the resolution presented by Mr. Boyce, agreed to by the House and referred to the Committee on July 10, 1980, namely:

WHEREAS the re appears an allegation published in the July 8 edition of the Winnipeg Tribune that "Legislative Counsel R. H. Tallin and Deputy Legislative Counsel A.C. Balkaran participated in political debate Monday during committee review a Bill introduced by Mr. Meicier" ; AND

WHEREAS such allegation ref lects on servants of the Legislature; THE REFORE BE IT RESO LV ED THA T the allegations are referred to the Sta nding Committee on the Legislature on Privileges and Elections; and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED th at the committee be empowered to examine and enquire into all matte rs perta ining to the allegation and things as may be referred to them and to report from time to tirne their observations and opinions thereon with power to send for pers(lns, papers and documents and examine witnesses under oath.

Your comm ittee, after heari ng consi derable discussion, agreed to the following resolution: "The Committee on Privileges and Elections, having perused Hansard, finds the allegation referred to in the Resolution to be without foundation and recommends that no furthe r action be taken." MR. SPEAKER: . The. Honourable Member for Minnedosa. · MR. BLAKE: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Honourable Member for Rock Lake that the report of the committee be received. MOTION presented and carried. MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS AND TABLING OF REPORTS MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Attorney- General. HON. GERALD W. J.

MERCIER (Osborne): Mr. Speaker, I wish to table copies of each regulation made under The Regulations Act since the House was last called into session, being Regulation 16/80- 223/ 80 inclusive. MR. SPEAKER: Notices of Motion. Introduction of Bills. INTRODUCTION OF GUESTS MR. SPEAKER: Before we proceed I should like to draw the honourable ·memb ers' attention to the gallery whe re we have 60 students of Gra de 9 standing from Charleswood constituency under the direction of Miss Tinsley. This school is located in the constituency of the Honourable First Minister of the province.

On behalf of all members we welcome you here this afte rnoon. MR. SPEAKER: Introduction of Bills . . . ORAL QUESTIONS MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Leader of the Opposition. MR. HOWARD PAWLEY (Selkirk): Mr. Speaker, I'd just like to indicate to you that the opposition will be fore going their opportunity to ask questions today. MR. SPEAKER: The Honour able Member for lnkster. MR. SIDNEY GREEN: Mr. Speaker, I would like to inf orm you that the Opposition is not foreg oing their right. Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Honourable the Minister of Urban Affairs. I would 20

Monday, 15 December, 1980 like to ask the Minister whether the situation with respect to the railway crossing at Keewat in, running north and south, which is aggravated by the delay in the Sherbro ok-McGr egor Overpass but which certainly need a grade separation by itself, can he confirm through City of Winnipeg sou rces that on December 4 that intersection was blocked by CPR railway traffic for two hours out of the 12 hours of that day, could he obtain that confirma tion? And, Mr.

Speaker, if he does, does he think that, particularly in view of the delay of the Sherbrook-McGr egor, that the grade separation which is now scheduled for 1983, could he urge that it be moved up in order to deal with a north/south artery which effects two very substantial residential areas of Gr eater Winnipeg. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Attorney-General. MR. MERCIER: Mr. Speaker, I will seek confirmation of the facts raised by the honourable member and I will pass on to the city offi cials his concern about the construction of the project to which he refe rs. MR. GREEN: Yes, Mr.

Speaker, in view of the fact that on the day in question I am reliably inf ormed that on one occasion this north/ south urban artery was blocked by CPR tr aff ic for a total of 400 seconds, or almost seven minutes continuous, this was the day on which it was blocked for two hours out of 12, and that would appear to be in violation of

Section 251 of the Railway Act which provides for a maximum five-m inute period, could the Minister of Urban Aff airs, with his hat of Attorney-General, see whether indeed there is something that can be done about the inconvenience that is being caused to these citizens by virtue of sitt ing and waiting for seven minutes while a major urban traffic artery is stopped? MR. MERCIER: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I will undertake to review that matter. MR. GREEN: Mr.

Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister whether it is a fact tha t the politic al opposition to the Sherbrook-McGr egor overpass is being fin anced by his depar tment, through the appointment of a Legal Aid Solicitor, to represent a political opinion to stop an arter y in northw est Winnipeg? MR. MERCIER: Mr. Speaker, there is no political opposition that is being fina nced by legal aid. I understand that a citizens group has obtained a legal aid certifi cate to contest the legal validity of certain action that has been taken. MR. GREEN: Mr.

Speaker, in view of the fact that this is a political question involving certain people who feel one way about whether the Sher brook McG regor Overpass should proceed, and everybody wants rail line relocation but certain people have been waiting for it for a long time, and other people who have, since 1935, waited for another northwest traffic artery, would the Minister consider giving legal aid to the other people on the side of this dispute so they could go before this commission and indicate tha t the y want, through whatever political legal process there is, to have this overpass constructed 21 so that they could resist what is being paid for by the Crown in a political case?

MR. MERCIER: Mr. Speaker, I would be happy to see that happen. MR. SPEAKER: The Honour able Member for Roblin. MR. J. WALLY McKENZIE: Mr. Speaker, I have a question to the Honourable Minister of Agriculture. lt relates to the HE RD Maintena nce Assistance Program of the federal go ver nment and the contusion that's been raised by some farmers receiving cheques and others not. I wonder if the Minister of Agriculture can advise the House if he or his department have had any consulta tions or meetings with the federal government as to how this pay-out fo rmula under the HE RD Maintenance Program is carrying on.

There has been one form ula established, now it's been changed and farmers in one area don't get cheques and others ... I wonder if he's had any communication with the federal government in this matter. MR. SPEAKER: The Honour able Minister of Agriculture. HON. JAMES E. DOWNEY (Arthur): Mr. Speaker, I fi rst of all want to acknowledge the Member for Roblin in asking a quest ion which is of utmost importance to the farm community.

We have had concern with the federal HE RD Maintenance Program ever since it was introduced when, in fact , the payout to producers was supposed to 70 for beef cows and 140 for dairy cows; the day that they reduced it to 35 for beef cows and 70 for dairy cows we have been concerned. We have had ongoing communications on the dif fe rent programs, Mr. Speaker, and I'll assure the Member for Roblin we will, in fa ct, com municate with the fed eral go vern ment to try and get clarific at ion on the delivery of their program. MR. McKENZIE: I wonder, Mr.

Speaker, if the Minister of Agriculture will try and determine what the payout formula is at the present time. As I understand it the original plan was to pay it under township boundaries or municipal boundaries or the amount of rainfall in the area, but apparently now that's been changed to some other fo rmula and that's where the confusion is. One farmer gets a cheque and his neighbour doesn't. I wonder if the Minister will check it out. MR. DOWNEY: Mr. Speaker, as I indicated earlier, th ere is concern I'm sure amongs t the farm community as there is with the members of this particular government.

I would assure the member that we will try and get clarification on the for mula which the present program is being delivered. Again, it is a federal prog ram and I would ask any communication, or the majority of communication, should go to the federal government letting them know of the displeasure of the way in which it's being received. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Fort Rouge.

Monday, 15 December, 1000 MRS. JUNE WESTBURY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, my question is addressed to the Honourable Minister of Community Services and relates to the child related income su pport payments which were announced in the Budget and in the Throne Speech. I wonder if the Minister can tell me why the ap plication fo rms are st ili not printed for this program. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Community Services. HON. GEORGE UI !II AKIER (SI. J&mes ): Mr.

Speaker, for the inf ormation of the House, the final stages of the regulations, as well as the application forms, are in the process of being completed and they should be available within approximately a week's time, before a week's time. MRS. WESTBURY: On another matter, to the same Minister, Mr. Speaker.

In view of the fact that the federal gov ernment has approved, in principle, the provision of day care for House of Commons employees and MPs' children, supported by all the parties in the House, is the Minister giving any consideration to the suggestion that was made by another member in the last session, that day care should be provided for employees and members of this House? MR. MINAKEFI: Mr.

Speaker, as I indicated in the last ses sion that our department is always willing to look at any request from any non-profit group that organizes itself for day care services, and they will be considered in the same way that any of the other groups would be considered. If you notice I said, non-profit operations, Mr. Speaker, and where the need is shown to exist. MRS. WESTBURY: Mr. Speaker, would the Minister th en tell us whether he is, at the moment, considering any application by staff people in the Legislative Building for !he provision of this service. MR. IIII INAKER: Mr.

Speaker, I'm not aware of any such request, but if it is before our department I'm sure that they will get that fair consideration that I've already suggested to the honourable member. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Rock Lake. MR. HENRY J. IEINARSON: Mr. Speaker, ! wish to direct this question, I believe it is to the Minister of Transportation. My question relates to railways in the province that have been abandoned, and what I mean by abandoned the tracks have been removed, the ties have been removed, and the land is going back for other purposes.

I wonder if the Minister of Transportation can give us any idea because farmers are concerned about this matt er; wha t communication he's had with the federal government in regard to what's going to happen to that railway property that has been abandoned. MR. SPEAKER: The Honour able Minister of Transportation. HON. DON ORCHARD (Pembina ): Well, Mr.

Speaker, we have, as many members in this House 22 are fully fam iliar, been attempting to find a proper form ula through which the federal government can participate in vesting the railway right-of-ways on abandoned lines back to the municipalities and to the farmers.

Now we have run into a series of obstacles to that and it is my understanding, from the last communicq.tion that I've had, that possibly within a few months we may receive from the federa l government Transfer of Title to all of the rights-of ways which were abandoned, I believe prior to 1971, but that may not be the exact year, and from thence we can proceed with the disposal of those railway right -of-ways to municipalities who may have an interest, and more prefera bly directly to the farmers through whose land those abandoned right-of-ways rail lines have passed. MR. EINA RSO !II: Yes, Mr.

Speaker, with a supplementa ry quest ion on the same matter. Because the municipalit ies concerne d and the farmers who are concerned about this matter are wondering whether there is any chance and from the comments the Minister makes, can there be given any assurances to both the municipalities and the farmers

whereas this land runs through, that they can be given assurances that because of real fencing problems that the farmers may have, that this matter can be cleared up by spring? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Transportation. MR. ORCHARD: Mr. Speaker, I would like very much to give the Member for Rock Lake that kind of an insurance. I thought that we could give that kind of an assurance last summer but we ran into further snags in the tr ansfer process and it has been bogged down on a number of occasions in Ottawa. We have gone through a lot of negotiations.

We believe th at our position from the province is relatively clear as to what we would like to see done. The federal government has agreed to that and is in . the process of tr ansf erring th ose tit les to the province. As I say, I received an estimate of time, anywhere from several months to several years, and we are certainly pushing our federal counterparts to make it the several months rather than the several years. MR. EINARSON: A seco nd supplementary, Mr. Speaker. When the Minister refers to possibly several years, it concerns me to no end, Mr.

Speaker, and I'm wondering - I don't know whether the Minister can answer this question but as he says that the provincial government is prepared to go ahead - what are the particular reasons that the federal government finds that are obstacles in its way for not proceed ing on a more speedy situation in arriving to a solution to this problem? MR. ORCHARD: Mr.

Speaker, I understand that some of the problem is that they want to assure that the titles are checked and rechecked and double checked so that there is no potential for transf erring a title to the province which may have an easement or a second call against it and that process has taken considerably longer than wha t they had anticipated. However, we are awaiting further word as to just how quickly the process can be completed. Ifs a concern to all of us, Mr. Speaker.

Monday, 15 December, 1980 MR. SPEAKER: The Honour able Member for Emerson. MR. AlBIERT DRIIEDGER: Mr. Speaker, I have a question to the Minister of Agriculture. The Leader of the Opposition made a statement in St. Malo on December 1 stating that the present government has loosened up The Farmlands Protection Act, could the Minister of Agriculture indicate what changes have taken place since we took over? MR. SPEAKER: The Honour able Minister of Agriculture. MR. DOWNEV: Basically, Mr.

Speaker, the main changes that took place where the non-resident, for eign owners were restricted from 160 acres down to 20 acres were one of the basic changes that we made with our legislation which was in fact tightening the legislation. The other one, of course, one of the major changes was to allow Canadians, all Canadians, to have the ability to buy Manitoba fa rmland, really removing some of the restrictions that were placed on them by the last government. MR. DRIEDGER: Mr. Speaker, obviously the Leader of the Opposition is not aware of what is in The Farmlands Protection Act.

I wonder if the Minister would consider sending him a copy of it. MFI. DOWNEV: lt would certai nly be my pleasure to send him a copy, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAI<I:ER: The Honour able Member for Dauphin. MR. JIM GALBRAITH: Thank you, Me SP,eaker. I have a question for the Minister of Agriculture. Has our Minister of Agriculture received any reply from the federal minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board regarding his letter requesting a 2.00 increase in the initial price of wheat? MR. DOWNEV: Mr.

Speaker, I would have to say that I am somewhat disappointed that we have not had an of ficial response on the request to increase the initial price to farmers. That money that we're requesting for the farmers is the farmers money that is being held by the Wheat Board and we feel that when they are able to sell the wheat at something in excess of 7.00 a bushel that the initial wheat price should be increased from the 4.25 that it now is. We will be pursuing this issue further, Mr. Speaker, and I certainly appreciate the Member for Dauphin asking that question. MR. GALBRAITH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Would our minister consider requesting the Canadian Wheat Board and its minister that they pay interest to farmers on these huge sums of money that they are holding on the farmers behalf? MR. DOWNE\': Well fi rst of all, Mr. Speaker, the fi rst interest assistance would be if the y did have the money in their hands they could alleviate some of the bills that they have or some of the costs that they are incurring by borrowed money, so I think that would be the first approach, it would be the most acceptable by farmers in western Canada. MR. SPEAKER: Orders of the day.

The Honourable Minister without Portf olio HON. IEDW ARD Mc Gill (Brandon West): Mr. Speaker, before the Orders of the Day, I wonder if, by leave, I could make a very brief statement of a non-political nature. IIII R. SPEAKER: Has the honourable member leave? The honourable minister. NON-POLITICAl STATEMENT I\II R. McGill: Mr. Speaker, I think it would be appropriate at this time to draw the attention of mem bers of the House to the outst anding perfo rmance of two Canadians who yesterd ay in Bogata, Colombia won the world team championship of go lf. I'm particu larly interested, Mr.

Speaker, because one of the team members Dan Halldorson resides in the Brandon-Shilo community, and it is the intention of the Brandon community to have a Dan Halldorson night on Thursday of this week. So I am sure, Mr. Speaker, that perhaps I can convey the congratulations and good wishes of this Assembly to Dan Halldorson and his partner Jim Nelford of Burnaby, B.C. in this outstanding achievement of winning a world golf championship. IIII IRI. SIPIEAKIER: The Honour able Member for Brandon East MR. LIEONARD S. EVANS: Very brie fly, Mr.

Speaker, on behalf of the opposition, the of ficial opposition, I'd like to associate ourselves with the remarks made by the Honourable Minister without Portf olio. Indeed congratulations and good wishes are well deserving to these people. We certainly trust tha t this vie w of the Leg islatur e will be communicated to the individuals. ORDERS OF THE DAY THRONE SPEECH DEBATE MlR. SPEAKER: On the adjourned debate on the proposed motion of the Honourable Member for Minnedosa. The Hono urable Leader of the Opposition. MR. PAWLEY: Mr.

Speaker, I congratulate you upon your appointment for another term in a position which, let me assure you, will receive the respect and co-operation that that office indeed deserves on this side of the Chamber. I wo uld also wish to congratulate the Mover and Seconder to the Throne Speech on their presentations on Friday. Prior to the commencement of my remarks, Mr.

Speaker, I would like to pay tribute to one that indeed had served 'Canada well and I am sure that we all in this Chamber share a sense of loss and grief since we last sat in this Chamber with the departure of the former Go vernor-General , Jules Leger, a great Canadian, a great Canadian that served Canadians well. Mr. Speaker, it was some four years ago that the then Leader of the Opposition stood here to reply to the Speech from the Throne. He discussed at some length the fai lings, as he saw them, of the government of the day. He spoke about the future of Manitoba.

He asked if we wanted to be the fi rst generation of Manitobans whose children must look 23

Monday, 15 December, 1980 with difficul ty to see if they can buy their own homes, whose ch ildren can't afford to own their own businesses and farms. He said and I quote "I believe that we do not have to settle for being the fi rst generation of Manitobans who gave up the hope that most of our children can own their own homes or their own farms or their own businesses. I believe, he said, we don't have to settle for the kind of future where the most important ability our children will have is the ability to leave Manitoba".

Further he indicated that it is time that we recaptured the hopes that Manitobans have always had for the futu re. "it's time" , said he, "that we recaptured the excitement of working to make our community better and more prosperous". These were his words on this occasion nearly four years ago. Within months the Leader of the Opposition, the present Premier, called upon the people of the province to join together in changing Manitoba for the better. He was rewarded, Mr. Speaker, with the greatest popular vote that any party had indeed won since 1915 .

The people of Manitoba placed their confidence, their hopes and their beliefs in the futur e into the hands of the present Premier and the present Cabi net, the Conservative Party of the Province of Manitoba. Mr. Speaker, there has been time for this government to prove itself, to show its stuff, to make a mark on the history of the province of Manitoba. The time is now approaching when Manitobans will again judge their government and chose the future path for Manitoba.

People in this province had compared the record of three years of Conservative rule with those words uttered by the present Premier of this province as Leader of the Opposition four years ago. They have compared and they know this government has comm itted, Mr. Speaker, perhaps the greatest betrayal of hope and confide nce tha t Manitobans ever had in their anticipations in the government. Mr.

Spea ke r, acute protr acted rest raint has become acute protracted disaster, and those have indeed become the hallmarks of this government; hallmarks indeed that have been broken promises, economic decli ne, sec recy, arroga nce and botto mless hypocrisy. Their own words condemn them. Their own policies have brought Manitoba to its knees. Now, Mr. Sp eaker, they offer a Throne. Speech which is indeed the ghost of Xmas past. The Western Power studies are feat ured for the third consecutive time, but there is nothing new to say about the project's fea sibility.

Announcements made through 1980 have been recycled again and again, with no com pleted studie s or agreements . The y are the echoes of 1966 and 1969. There is much of Xmas past but there is nothing of Xmas pn:isent arid as fo r Xmas future, the very word future appears only once in the Throne Speech. Business closures and bankruptcies have become so frequent that many are not even reported, yet the government offers only its sympathy about interest rates. They offer to monitor interest rates and a continuation of aid for commercial research and tec hnology.

This province has suf fered the non precedented loss of population. But this problem, Mr. Speaker, is not even mentioned in the Throne Speech. This problem is not mentioned by a party that has wept over and over again in the past, while it was in opposition, crocodile tears about the lost young people during years indeed, that were not years of population decline but rather were years of population increase. Mr.

Speaker, let me point out to the Member for Emerson, the Minister of Agriculture that indeed the 1978 Conservati ve loopholes in The Farmlands Protection Act, are big enough to drive a locomotive through, but we read in the newspapers that despite pledges of amendments, there will no attempt on the part of the Minister of Agriculture to plug loopholes. Inflat ion is eating away at Manitoba's standard of living, especially since wage levels here have fallen behind other provinces, but the Throne Speech ignores the problem.

In his reply to the last New Democratic Party Throne Speech, the present Premier expressed his disappointment that the Garrison Diversion pr oject and Manitoba's native people were not mentioned in that Throne Speech. it should not come as any surprise to anyone that indeed there has been no mention of either in this Thr one Speech. The Conservative motto seems to be promises made are promises broken. The rapidly rising cost of gaso!ine is not mentioned, nor is roads, rail relocations in the context of the Winnipeg Core development.

Despite endless questions from the Honourable Member for Rock Lake about the Port of Churchill - and we recall so well the honourable member again and again in the last session of the House, asking about the Port of Churchill - the Port of Churchill is not mentioned in the Throne Speech; it has been !eft to the Member of the Legislature for Churchill and for the province of Saskatchewan to document the diversion of grain from Churchill to Thunder Bay, there has been but silence on the part of this government. Mr.

Speaker, the omissions alone confirm the fact that this government has nothing to offer Manitobans except secret studies about riew developments that may or may not happen; that may or may not be heavily subsidized by the people of Manitoba; that may or may not be unwelcome, as has been the giveaway of timber resources by this government in eastern Manitoba to Abitibi. Failure, Mr. Speaker, has mnde this gov ernment desperate. I hope, Mr. Speake r, that they will heed the report of the Churchill Forest Industries Inquiry report.

Meaningful public debate of major prCJjects can only take place if all inf ormation is made available to the Legislature and if financia l relationship s are not kept confi dentiaL Now, Mr. Speaker, some indeed do say that it is easy to criticize but we on this side of the House ,h�\IE! �n obligation to offl:!r alternatives. The Premier himself, who's now speaking from the seat of his pants as usual, in the House, had this to say in a recent speech to the Conservative state dinner and in his closing remarks to the last session of the Legislature.

One reads in the December 12 Winnipeg Sun, a quote from the Premier saying, "We have to remind the people of Manitoba just how bloody bad it was". Mr. Speaker, the backward looking defence of his record can be summarized as, we may be bad but they were worse. I can understand how comfor ting it must be for the Premier to keep giving the same speeches, the same stale speeches that he made four years ago at a time 24

Monday, 15 December, 1980 of great personal success. I must however remind him of his words in the Chamber from this seat when he stated, "The people of Manitoba did not put all of us here to gnaw the bones of old contentions, but rather to grapple with the futur e of this province and its people". We can learn from the past but those lessons must be applied to the future.

Manitobans have learned some lessons in the past few years and I've heard that their conclusions about the kind of government that they want in this province. lt was my privilege to visit most parts of this province, indeed almost two-thirds of the provincial constituencies in Manitoba, since the House rose in July this year. I listened and I heard that Manitobans want a government that can be trusted again in the province of Manitoba. They know that this government began breaking promises as soon as it was elected. They want a government that is open and honest and willing to listen to Manitobans.

They are tir ed of the flimflam, the much ado about nothing, which has been so characteristic of the past th ree years. Ab ove all, Ma nitobans want a gov ernment tha t is willing to take realist ic and constructiv e steps to rebuil d the provinces's shattered economy. This is the fifth session of the Legislature in little more than three years, but what is there to show for all that activity? Ma nitobans are wondering what has happened to this province. We see children In soup lines at the Salvation Army, almost - (lnterjection) Mr.

Speaker, the response from the members of this government and the backbenchers across the way, indeed do cha racterize some thing about the sentiment and philosphy that is inherent on the part of so many across the way. -( Interjection)- Mr. Speaker, it would be great if this Premier's ears were as good as his tongue. lt might indeed be to the benefit of everybody in this Chamber. Mr. Speaker, if this Premier would do a little listening to the people of the province of Manitoba we'd be in better shape today.

If this Premier would indeed travel about the province of Manitoba and speak to the average Manitoban, then it would be to the benefit of us all. Mr. Speaker, almost 1,000 Ma nitobans lost their jobs in just two of the many plant closures, Swifts and the Tribune. In Gil lam we were told, by an elderly person in Gil lam, that Gil lam indeed was the town wher e he wanted to live out most of his remaining years. The man needed regular medical attention. The doctor at Gil lam had just moved out. The man said that he could not af ford to leave Gil lam, to spend his last years in a strange town.

In Friday's Free Press, the owner of the Winnipeg Folklore Centre says, "There is no room for this type of store in a catatonic city". You can't have a dead city and expect th ese fringe stor es to sustain themselves. lt is noted in the same issue of the Free Press that McLaren Advertising and Philips Data are closing their Winnipeg offices, with Philips citing soft market conditions. On that same day the Winnipeg Sun reported on the issue of hosp ital beds, particularly psychiatric beds, which we have raised repeatedly since this government cancelled plans to expand the number of hospitals.

Chief Magistrate George Parkin is quoted as saying the whole damned system is such that you can't get a patient in when th ey badly need treatment. Someone looking for jobs in the career

section would find that there were 162 jobs advertised last Saturday, but less than a third of them were with private sector Manitoba firms. Is this the future of excitement and prosperity which Manitobans were promis ed ? No, it is the opposite of wha t was promised but is a direct result of the economic policies of this government. The Premier himself was a happy slasher. On October 31, 1977, as acute protracted restraint was being prepared the Premier said, "I 've been told that there is an extra spring in the step of people as they walk down Portage Avenue" . Mr.

Speaker, today people are more likely to be walking down Portage Avenue to get to a bus going out of the Province of Manitoba. The true believer rarely falters and the Conservative Gov ernment itself is the vanguard of that North American movement. On November 24, 1977, speak ing about the measures prepared for the first ses sion of the Legislation the Premier said, "Some of the paths that are being cut in Manitoba will assuredly be followed in Otta wa under a Conservative Federal Go vernment". The Premier was correct, Mr. Speaker, to Joe Clark's everlasting misfor tune.

On October 24, 1978, he told a New York audience, "The reductions we have made in the taxing, the bor rowi ng, spending and size of government in Manitoba are acting as a spur to our ability to create employment". Yes, the worst job creation record in the whole of Canada, the worst job creation in the whole of Canada. On May 3 of that year the present Minister of Community Services told the Legislature that by reducing the tax we are going to keep more people here. On March 6, 1979, the Finance Minister told his ideological companions at the Fraser Institute that we will certainly have a revived economy.

We do no hear much anymore from Fraser Institute and it's interest in Ma nitoba. The Premier put it all on the line in his June 5, 1979 speech to the Canadian Manufact urers Associa tion in Toronto when he descri bed the government's role as saying, "The private sector and the market economy, a chance to demonstrate that it could create .the opportunities, the prosperity and the quality of lif e we want in Manitoba." This government ignored warnings from this side of the House, from economis ts and even from many of their own supporters.

In February, 1979, the retiring and the newly elected presidents of the Winnipeg construct ion industry said 7,000 to 8,000 jobs had been lost due to provincial government restraint In ·t heir industry .alone. Mr. Michael Ko ffm an of State Elect ric Company said to expect, as had been suggested, tha t the priv ate sector will step in to replace government just is not realistic. No matter, in July, 1979, the Premier was still confident enough to call gloomy forecasts selective statistics and pessimism.

He said that in 1979 Manitoba would have a growth rate of 3.6 percent, not the 1.5 percent that had been predicted by the Conf erence Board of Canada. Well, the Co nference was wrong. Ma nitoba's growth rate last year was only 1 percentage point, and worse than any other province. The speculative bubb le of neo-Conservat ive dreams has burst. The bubble burst but, as with any speculative scheme, it is the ordinary people that are 25

Monday, 15 December, 1980 ----· out ot pocket. We must try to salvage something from the wreck. Some of those ordinary people were Manitobans who went into business for themselves, including the 27 building and trade contractors who have declared bankruptcy this year. Some were farm equi pment dealers who have been denied any assistance from the Manitoba government to help them through a period of sharp decline in farm income. There are the young people who put a deposit on furnitur e at O!lmann's who now may indeed never again see that money.

The Premier still criticizes my party for using what he is calling "s elective statistic s" althoug h, Mr. Speaker, I must note that he and his colleagues are pretty selectiv e in their attempts to show any concrete evidence of any upswing in the economy of the Province of Manitoba. The Premier is not making any predictions any more; he's not telling the world any more to follow Manitoba's lead.

He, in the recent Throne Speech, ignored the employment problem in Manitoba, the fact we had the worst job creation record in 1979, the worst so far in 1980 and, according to the Co nference Board forecast , the worst in 1981. He ignores the fact that if, as the Conference Board expects, our economy shrinks by 1.2 percent this year, that shrinkage will be the worst performanc e since records were started in 1961. lt is not the first drought year as the Premier noted himself four years ago in his extensive discussion of the harm then being caused to Manitoba by drought.

This government still ignores the fact that housing construction in Manitoba has dec reased by about two-thirds from the disastrously low level of 1979. The Conservatives were going to get Manitoba moving again and they have all right to Alberta, to Saskatchewan, to Ontario and even the Maritimes, anywhere, anywhere that jobs are opening up.

This government and this Premier show absolutely no awareness of how their restraint philosophy has been turned into a snowball of misfort une for Manitoba; they do not see a connection between a freeze on northern construc tion; the demolition of the Department of Northern Affa irs and the increasing numbers of northern Manitobans, particularly native people, who have come into Winnipeg in a desperate search for work. I, and my colleagues, visited Indian reserves in the north where unemployment now exceeds 90 percent.

Anything looks better and so these people come into Winnipeg where restraint has made it more dif ficult for social and education agencies to help them ; where the employment situation means there are less job openings; and finally, where some of them f eel they must send their children to the Salvation Army to get a decent meal. lt took a battle to preserve the downtown school nutrition program which is a saving grace for hundreds of children. Thank God that program did not get axed by this government but is indeed a small mercy.

This government of a Cabinet of financial wizards has said that Manitoba's relative decline in wage levels, the 6.8 percent increase in the minimum wage since Septem ber, 1976, and the opportunities offered by healthiee economies to the West are all beneficial to Manitobans. Each of those factors have contributed to our drop in population. Let the Minister of Economic Development, who twice wrote the Free Press this fal l stating that certainly his government policy was one of red uced overall investment in the Manitoba economy, talk about population decrease.

To the furnitur e industry, for example, which is starved for customers because of almost no demand for new housing, plus higher interest rates; let the Minister of Finance explain the irrelevance of population decrease to the employees and the owners of ho me-building firms that are now in receiver ship. Fm sure tha t the residents of Neepawa would welcome a chance to have someone from that front bench tell them that the Manitoba economy is basically healthy as they struggle with a plant closure that is of greater impact to their town than the shutdown of Massey-Harris Ferguson is to Canada.

Department store employees will be happy to hear they have nothing to worry about. Their industry is heavily dependent upon the number of people in Manitoba and the income level of people that are here. The latest report on department store sales issued six days ago shows that from October, 1979 to October, 1980 sales in Manitoba increased by 6.4 percent, the worst in Canada and well below the national average of 11. 3 percent.

Infla tion of more than 10 percent in the same period means that department store sales here are selling substantially less goods than they were last year, a fact which should surprise no one, except the members of the benches opposite. But this is stili not a government which is prepared to face fac ts. When my colleague for Brandon East released his latest report comparing the economic management of the two governments, the Premier again charged selective statistics and the Minister of Finance said a comparison of 1975 to 1977 with 1978 to 1980 would show a diffe rent story.

The Minister of Finance has actually brought his own credibility into question. Manitoba's growth rate from 1978 to 1980 is only one-tenth of the national average. For the entire 1970 to 1977 our growth was eight times better, and four-fif ths of the national average. But if one just looks at the last three years of New Democratic Party government, 1975 to 1977, our growth rate was 84 percent of Canada's, even better than over the entire period, 1969 to 1977. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, I wonder if there is still anyone in Manitoba tha t st ill could possibly ha ve any confidence in a Finance Minister that is so totally out of touch with the past performanc e of this province's economy; is there anyone that could still have any trust or confide nce? The First ivlinister may very well say much of my analysis is correct but the New Democratic Party is even worse. We have an obligation, Mr. Speaker, to present an alternative but some of the principles which would guide New Democratic Party economic policies are clear.

We would put an end to the resource giveaway which have become a habit under the Conserva t ive Go vernment . The Trout Lake deposit was found through New Democratic Party gov ernment explora tion and although the development of the deposit - Mr. Speaker, 1 hear the Minister of Finance tha t has so little understan ding of the past perfo rmance of the economy of the province of Manitoba again shouting from his seat. Althoug h the development of the deposit was a no-risk proposition the government was so desperate to have some mineral development it paid Hudson Bay Mining &.

Smelter Com pany a quarter share of the mine. Manitobans have lost half 26

Monday, 15 December, 1980 their income from that new mine, income which will go to Huds on Ba y Mining and Smelter's South African owners. A New Democratic Party government wou ld have taken the opportunity for majority ownership of the Tantalum Mine, a highly profitable mine, and the only one of its kind in Canada. Manitoba lacks abundant oil and gas reserves or a domi nant position in any resou rce except for Tantalum. Surely we must work to keep as much of the wealth and mineral wealth in this province as is humanly possible.

Multi nationals like Inca have a dominant position which Manitoba cannot challenge but su rely we should take advantage of the opportunities which do exist for the people of this province to increase their own state in its resources. Other provinces have shown that with imagination and true belief in the futur e they can take a more active role in their economy and increase the flo w of investment income, thus reducing the pressure on taxes and fees . The last Throne Speech talked about the potential for new oil discoveries in the Virden field.

Now that th ose discov eries have been made by a Saskatchewan Crown Corporation there is silence, silence about our oil prospects. Why couldn't the gov ernment of Manitob a have shared in th at discovery? We hear about the tremendous potential of the potash development that may or may not take place near St. Lazare. We have been told that again the company is guaranteed a healthy share of the province's interest in the potential mine and its potential profits.

We do not know what assurances have been given to the U.S. based multinational which is involved because this go ver nment has refused for nearly seven months, nearly seven months Mr. Speaker, to make public their Letter of Intent regarding the known potash deposits. There is talk about development at ManFor and we can only hope that they're not modelled along the Abitibi line. Alcan is completing a preliminary study to determine if they will do a fea sibility study of a plant which would be completed in 1986 at the earliest.

We know from the newspapers that they looked at Manitoba upon the province's invitation, that at fi rst they were skeptical about the economics of such a smelter. Once more the lid of secrecy is being kept tightly on this development. lt seems certain that Alcan is being offered incentives by a government now desperate to create the appearance of futur e prosperity, but meaningful debate cannot begin until the public and the Legislature are given full details.

No one wants to keep worthwhile industries out of Manitoba but equally those of us on this side do not want to see public funds spent on a pig in a poke or on su bsidies for multinationals to do what Manitobans could have done on their own.

We refer to the lessons of CFI and operation breakthrough, not because that initiative ended in scandal, but because it demonstrated clearly the folly of basic economic deve lopment upon handouts to buy multinational activity, which by its very nature will be conducted to benefit the multinational first and Manitoba only second. lt can be said that some Conservatives seem to forget nothing and learn nothing.

The Throne Speech refe rences to devel opments about which no inf ormation is available and to hopes for a billion dollars worth of development echo too closely the Throne Speeches of mid 1960's and the 100 million dev elopment fund. A new Democratic Party gov ernment would have turned before now to Manitoba's single greatest natural resource, hydro electricity. The last three Throne Speeches have, on the question of hydro electricity, given a whole new depth of meaning to the phrase "l ip se rvi ce" . Development is always mentioned but never started.

If this gove rnment appl ied its hydro policies to agricu lture it would tell each farmer to take his income in a particular year, to place the money in a jar, bury the jar in his back yard. They would urge him not to borrow at the start of next year to fin ance his seeding because the crop might fai l, or indeed the crop might not be sold next year. They would tell him to leave that money in the jar and not to waste it on clothes for his fam ily or gasoline or his vehicles. That farm would not have much of a future, Mr. Speaker, and under this government neither has hydro much of a future.

Hydro development must be orderly, planned, to help even out the cycles of our economy and prepared in a way that let northerners first, then other Manitobans, be trained to take adv antage of the job opportun ities th at new construction will make available. However, we must never forget that this is a world of increasing energy shortages and spiralling energy costs. We have on the Nelson River vast potential renewable energy. its devel opment will not add sign ificantly to environmental damage.

Manitoba places itself at the mercy of potential hydro customers when the go vernment's stated policy is to start this much needed development only when new sales are made. lt is very clear that in the discussion of a powerline to Saskatchewan and to Alberta, the go ver nment of Manitoba is the participant under pressure. In hydro, more than any other fie ld, this government has shown they are afraid of the futur e and unwilling to invest in the futur e of the province of Manitoba. They have set this province back by dallying for three years and more. Mr.

Speaker, I wonder how the Member for La Verendrye, how he voted in the resolution that the Member for Churchill introduced to this House in 1978 when he called upon orderly development to take place. Now it is Let's Make a Deal time and futur e revenues might go the way of Newf oundland under similar circumstances. The First Minister showed how well he understands hydro development when he stood here and said Jenpeg and Lake Winnipeg controls won't work very well and we didn't need them in the fi rst place. That from a man who had, minutes earlier, been talking about drought.

This year the First Minister was wrong by about 33 million and he will be wrong every time Jenpeg and Lake Winnipeg control continue to prove their value. Mr. Speaker, there are other ways in which a New Democratic Party economic policy would differ from th at of the Conservatives. We would do more than pay lip service to the th ousands of small busi nesses tha t are th e fou ndation of so much economic activ-ity in the province. If there were no federal programs for small businesses the present gov ernment of Manitoba "1.1

Monday, 15 December, 1980 would be off ering them nothing but hope. The government is too busy looking for its one big deal with a multi national to think about the small businesses who depend a great deal upon the provincial economic climate. Rural depopulation has simply not been a concern by this government nor has uncontrolled construction ol malls in and outside of Winnipeg been of concern. I understand how a government which stopped most construction work in Manitoba would be reluctant to interfere with super abundance of malls. The end result has been chaos with more stores competing for less business.

Most small businesses in Manitoba need only look over their bank records to know which party has their interests best at heart. The most tragic aspect of this government's economic disaster is that ordinary people are those who get hurt first and small businesses are the ones that go bankrupt while larger ones simply adjust and in the case of branch line companies, simply by way of closing their branch in Manitoba and moving out.

The Winnipeg Folklore Centre disappears but Philips Data Systems just closes one of their many offices In a fou r-year period from 1977 to 1980 prices increased by 39 percent but wages went up by only 22 percent. The results were felt by every Manitoban in the pocket. A provincial government can only do so much about wage and price trends but this government makes this worse. The minimum wage in Manitoba has increased by only 6.8 percent since September 1976.

The price of provincial services have increased, higher charges for tuition fees, for Autopac, for Pharmacare, for personal care homes, for Winnipeg Transit, and so on. This government wanted to completely remove controls over the retail price of milk, although control of farmers prices were never to be changed. Low income for Manitobans would increase but multinationals like Safeway and Loblaws get the chance to draw more profit from Manitoba. One rent increase would be appealed by tenants and changed if they were unfai r, that is still the case in most provinces.

Here some tenants have had increases of 67 percent, many increases which double or triple the rate of infla tion, and the government has done nothing to roll back those increases. Tenants who have tried to use the new legislation say it is hopeless. A New Democratic Party gov ernment would restore a form of rent control to deal with exorbitant rent increases, until there is a good supply of decent aff ordable housing again in the province of Manitoba. Northern residents have been hit with a 29 percent increase in the cost of propane, to heat their homes and businesses.

The Public Utilities Board did not even insist that the supplier, Dome Petroleum, justify that increase. The Conservative party believes in high energy prices. lt is not surprising that they have done nothing about this price increase. A New Democratic Party would insist that such a massive jump in the cost of heating be thoroughly justified with full and complete disclosure.

The Throne Speech attempts to cover up for the Public Utilities Board by mentioning discussions with Trans-Canada Pipelines. lt appears from questions asked Friday in this House, that northerners are supposed to pin their hopes on a natural gas pipeline 28 that no one has applied to build, and which does not appear in the national energy program. I suspect that with time we will see that this is just one more pipe dream, rather than a pipeline. This government was so sorry to see the Crosby bud get defeate d, th ey've tried their best to implement it anyway.

Provincial tax on gasoline has been increased so that every time the oil companies, or Al berta, or Ottawa raise the price of gasoline, there will be an extra 20 percent increase in Manitoba. Before the federal budget, the provincial tax was going up 15 percent. Thanks to the Liberal energy program, the Manitoba government may see its gasoline tax doubled by 1984. Small wonder that this government indeed has made itself the lap dog of Alberta. They wi!l piggyback on every increase and I'm sure the provincial increases will continue to be so timed that they're camouflaged by other price hikes.

That extra tax comes from people who are already hard pressed by rising prices. A New Democratic Party gov ernment would not have imposed such a tax at this time. lt is especially hard on those who must drive long distances for work or for shopping. A New Democratic Party government would, as the previous one, either fr eeze the fees charged for go ver nment se rvices or keep increases to the minimum. Our party remains committed to acting, when absolutely necessary, to control the price of essentials like housing. We want to help Manitobans fi ght inflation.

The present Premier just puf fs away about federal deficits, to take attention from his own hand in the pockets of the people of the province of Manitoba. Mr. Speaker, i have found that Manitobans are anxious to have a government that is open, that is honest with them, that is willing to listen. They know that Manitoba lacks that kind of government today. In villages, in towns, in cities ,and farms and shop stores, in offices, in livingrooms, I've heard the same description of almost every member of the present Cabinet, a little autocrat. A Little Autocrat.

Local municipal of ficials ask why their advice is no longer sought by the Minister of Municipal Affa irs. The people in Thompson must wonder if the Minister of Go vernment Services listens to anybody, after he offered to them to replace CRTC, after the Public Utilities Board which had refused to fight on their behalf, for full disclosure of propane heating costs in the city of Thompson. They must indeed wonder; very vocal on the CRTC, very silent on the Public Utilities Board.

Elderly tenants ask why the Minister responsible for rent stabilization ignored their ple as and cut off public hearings on rent control, then left them in the cold when rent increases of 25 percent, 30 percent, even 67 percent were handed down. Fishermen ask what kind of Resources Minister would try to spring licencing changes on them without warning, without consulta tion.

Manitobans who love the unspoiled beauty of this province ask, what kind of government would ignore the Jarmoc aff air, and propose a condominium development for the Whiteshell, then remove the proposal while still refusing to hold full and public hearings on the proposed Whiteshell development plan. Indian people ask what sort of government would send the Premier to their annual conference so

Monday, '15 December, 1980 poorly informed , tha t when told hunting policy changes he had promised them in 1979 were not in evidence, would respond by telling them that it takes some time for these decisions to be communicated to all levels of government. Indians would ask how any government could remove their right to vote in municipal elections so quietly, that most of them only discovered the changes two years later.

The people of Nelson House told me, other MLAs and our New Democratic Party federal critic for Indian Af fairs, that they had not seen their MLA for three years - the Minister of Labour for three years - and when we asl<ed if they had been in touch with the Minister of Northern Affa irs, they asked, who is he? School board members, local council members, teachers and parents have all asked wha t is happening with the major educa tion refo rm the present Minister began promising more than a year ago, and which the 1978 Throne Speech said was of major concern.

They have not been involved in an open process of consultation such as that which preceded the 1977 draft of The Public Schools Act. I was in Winnipegosis this fa ll, a community like many others, in its deep-felt concern about community control of schools. Last spring, the Minister of Education arrogantly told the House that he would have the problems in Winnipegosis solved, but in Winnipegosis people do not feel they have even been listened to and the problems persist.

The hundreds of people who once worked for the Winnipeg Tribune must wonder if they are being heard when only one political party leader, only one political party leader, failed to appear before the Royal Commission on newspapers and that leader was the only one in a position to have acted on their behalf, the Premier of the Province of Manitoba.

People who worked at Maple Leaf Mills, Monarch Wear, Western Sound, Jordan Wines, Thompson Credit Union, The Pas Credit Union, Neepawa Food Processors, McLaren Advertising, one could go on and on and on and it wouldn't do much good as far as the Minister of Ec onomic Devel opment is concerned because he just does not listen. And ask if this government is indeed listening to them as they start the commencement of a long, cold winter.

Hog producers on the brink of bankruptcy knew they were not bei ng heard by the Minister of Agriculture who insisted that only Manitoba would not assist its hog producers, leaving them to struggle alone or be sw allowed up by Car gill. Every Manitoban who depends in some way upon the food processing industry in this province must wonder if this is an open and listening government when they compare its silence on the Maple Leaf closure with the Throne Speech promise of new proces sing projects. The Conservative government was able to run to Alberta two weeks ago with a jumped-up scheme for a petro chemical plant.

But where were they during the last three years as Maple Leaf expanded its plant in Calgary and let the Manitoba plant run down? The autocratic quality of this Cabinet has become so wel l-known that the only answer to public discontent on the part of the First Minister was to hint at another shuf fle. Many on the Treasury Bench today have be come accustomed to just learning about one department before they are assigned to another.

We all read and heard about the shuffle which was to have taken place one month ago. lt confirmed that with this Cabinet to be moved is never quite a promotion, it is more like a rescue operation. Perhaps at the last minute the Premier realized how very badly his gove rnment's basic competence was undermined by cons tant shuffles that had taken place. More likely he just realized that no matter how many times you shuf fle the cards it's the same deck, it's the same old deck, Mr. Speaker.

The Minister of Hig hways has been just as arrogant as the Minister of Natural Resources, so he could hardly be expected to repair the damage that has been done by the Minister of Resources in the resources fie ld. The Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affa irs and the Environment has been a walking time bomb but what if the special skills he sh owed during the MacGregor spill and the rent control dispute were applied to local highway and road concerns, Mr. Speaker, it would be another disaster.

The Minister of Finance has become trapped in his own balanced-budget promises, but his lack of imagination in the Energy and Mines portf olio has meant a series of unfulfil led promises about large projects and smaller projects which are possible only through extensiv e public subsidie s for priv ate businesses. The Attorney-General apparently was not going to be shocked and that fact alone says much about the so-called new team which was supposed to have been assembled by the Premier. Mr.

Speaker, three years and more have shown Manitobans that this is a government of autocrats and even monthly Cabinet shuffles will not change that fact. Coffee and conversation on their part doesn't seem to help either. I attended a meeting of some 1,000 people in St. Malo three days after the Cabinet had folded their tents and slipped away from St. Malo, only three days after the Cabinet had slipped away. And with one voice, Mr. Speaker, the people in Emerson were asking, why do we see the Cabinet Ministers now af ter they forgot Emerson even existed for three years?

Last minute public relations exercises and even the last minute hiring of many public relations advisors - by the way, Harry Martin is one of them. I thought he would never want to drink at the public trough but apparently he's working, writing speeches for the Minister of Finance at the present time. (Interjection)- The quality has been indicated, too. But, Mr. Speaker, this will certainly not change the contempt which so many of these Ministers are regarding the people of the province of Manitoba.

To quote again from the Fi rst Minister's speech four years ago, "God knows they need a public relations offi cer." That's the kind of priorities we have with this government. The fa ilure of this government to be open, to listen is so evident that I only wish they had spent more than five days on Cabinet tours since the Legislature rose. The New Democrats in Lakeside, in Russell and in Portage would have received the same boost, the same shot in the arm that New Democrats have received in Spring fie ld, Emerson and in Brandon. Mr.

Speaker, I mentio ned a month ago the contempt with which this government regards the people of Manitoba. They showed that contempt when, as people sat in the committee room ready to 29

Monday, 15 December, 1980 make presentations about the Rent Control Bill 83, public hearings were cut off. That contempt was never more clear than the Premier's handling of the Constitutional issue. During the past sess ion, when there was no dispute between the federal and the Manitoba government about the Constitution, the Prem ier refu sett to present a reso lution on the matter or to set aside time for a special debate as had been done in most other provinces.

He waited until he had gotten into a real scrap with the federal gover nment and until my colleagues and I were growing tired of calls for committee hearings on the subject. On September 15 the Premier promised to place all documents before the committee; two months later our members were still fighting to get those documents. The government's attention was focused on its court case with Ottawa and as at December 5, the Brandon Sun

article asked, what•s it all for? The lack of interest which appeared to exist seemed to be welcomed by the Premier. On November 15 he told the Free Press th at Manitobans aren't all tha t interested in the committee hearings. The Winnipeg Sun said the Premier was not discouraged by the lack of interest; "lt's accessibility that counts", he said.

Then when it became clear that most briefs were not endorsing the government's position the Premier went fu rther to discourage people from bothering to appear by saying, you don't operate government on the basis of what the majority of people who come before a committee say. When polls asked questions about the content of refo rm proposals and showed most Manitobans disagreeing with the Premier's he discounted polls and said the public did not understand the issue.

When a poll showed public opposition to the Prime Minister's hasty and unilateral action, the Premier suddenly trusted the results and the public's wisdom and warned .the Prjme Minister to turn back and to turn back in place of public opposition. Interest in the Manitoba Committee hearings has continued to build so now they are in suspension. On October 11 , the Premier said any sign of substantial amendments to the federal resolution would be hopefu l. He has since failed to seek such amendments on behalf of Manitoba and to ignore them as he goes about the province atta cking Ottawa. Mr.

Speaker, the Constitution is not the most pressing problem confr onting Manitobans today. The Premier of this province and the Prime Minister of Canada have been able to use the Constitution as a means of avoiding the hard economic issues which confront them. And worse, the Premier of this province has played endless little games with the Constitutional issue insulting Manitobans deep love of their country. He has told Manitobans they are wise not to express their views on the issue and if they do express their views it would not matter to them.

He has told them that when they disagree with him they are misunderstanding the issue, then when they agree with him, their will must be obeyed. The only people to benefit from this charade are the high-priced lawyers hired by both Canada and the Manitoba government to argue a court case which is premature, which is an excuse for the Premier to stop negotiating on the Constitution. Mr. Speaker, the final test of how open this government is is in its treatment of freed om of information. Mr. Speaker, the Legislature's resolution on this subject has been ignored; the Throne Speech makes no mention of this matter.

We will watch with interest how this government treats Bill No. 4 in the present session. I can say here today that this party, in oppostion and in gov ernment, will not ignore freed om of information. I can also make a pledge to the people of Manitoba that the New Democratic Party is listening, will continue to do so regardless of the outcome of the next election In this province. You know, Tommy Douglas used to comment when he would get a rise from members opposite that when you indeed throw a stone into a pack of dogs and you hear some barking, then you know that indeed you have managed to strike your target.

We will watch with interest how the government treats Bill No. 4. The No rthern TaSk· Force which I and my colleagues have begun ih October is a model for our party and for our caucus. This party has begun and will continue to provide Manitobans with a forum in their own community to express their concerns, to voice their opinions, to tell their representatives what they expect from a provincial government. We have no desire to become a prisoner of the Legislative Buildings; no wish to listen""or'lly to opinions that we agree with.

The same ··�11 ·be true of every Minister in a Marii'toba Cabinet but as the public know and as the records show it is not true. There must be an end to closed and secretive government in Manitoba. Mr. Speaker, Manitobans feel despair about the futur e because of this gov ernment's economic fai lings. They are frus trated when they realize that this government is .not listening, when it is secretive. But many, and particularly those who joined that great majority in October, 1977, are angry with the trail of broken promises left by the Premier and by his colleagues.

The Consewative& �ledged that they would not fire any civil servants but they were so anxious tha t the firings began before the new government even took off ice. ·'Hundreds of qualified public servants were thrOWn 'into the streets, taking with them skills and knowledge that had been sorely lacking unf ortunately in the past three years of this government. The Premier's pledge to stop young people and businesses from leaving the province by creating a more prosperous economy would be a joke if the fai lure to follow through on that promise, indeed, had not been so disastrous for Manitoba.

There were so many promises and pledges that it is difficult to remember. Some here will recall a press conference held on October 5th, 1977, to unveil the Cons ervative programs and policies for addressing the problems of the City of Winnipeg. Some 21 programs were listed. Where are they now? There was going to be an extensive housing strategy including a dispersal of public housing. lt .has been dispersed right off the map. Property taxes were going to be lower than in 1977; priorities established for the city; a charter was going to 'be introduced.

Three years later one would not be receiving anything if not for some monies that are being received from the federal government. Now the intercity emp loyment program, the intercity housing construction, special tra ining programs for the disadvantaged, programs this government cut or ended, may start up again under 30

Monday, 15 December, 1980 a new name. This is a welcome development even when based on the soft federal dollars that the Premier once warned about The core initiative will probably not include a form of rent control, yet many inner city residents are tenants, they would greatly welcome this sort of protection. There has been no vote to give the cities power to control demolition of valuable housing which had been promised. Food stores like Boni Co-op could be encouraged to replace those that are moving out of the core of the City of Winnipeg.

If the community schools and programs had expanded, it would do much to stabilize inner city neighbourhoods. Most importantly, this government could have done something about jobs for inner city residents. I am not talking about massive distant projects that might not or indeed might happen, but the encouragement and expansion of locally owned businesses and training programs to help people enter gainful and meaningful employment.

The core area initiative will go to meet a great need, but this government could have made an immensely valuable contribution if it had intended to keep its promises to the City of Winnipeg. Part of the 10 point program was to help senior citizens. The help began with a winding down of senior citizens' housing to the point where only one hundred units were built in 1980-81. That was follo wed by a freeze in personal care home construction and new daily charge for seniors who must wait in hospital for a place in personal care homes.

The fiv e-year plan for personal care home construction was abandoned - great expense with higher interest rates, inflated prices plus the social and economic costs. When the Minister of Health recently ventured out of his office into eastern Manitoba, we heard firs thand about the results of his personal care home freeze. Homes like Rest Haven, Menno Home, which would be uneconomic to repair, were to be replaced under the 1976 plan. Now they are faced with fu rther deterioration of the old home and no firm date for construction of a new one.

Some homes have been almost dou bled in cost due to the delay in construction. The Minister of Health says his budget is so tightly stretched that he had to urge health care workers to be overworked and underpaid. The lack of funds tor Manitoba health care led to strikes at many institutions, however, there was room in the Minister's budget for his corporate friends. Each year Manitobans will pay a special subsidy of 1.3 million because this go ver nment wants profit making personal care homes to be built in Manitoba.

Many homes operated by religious and other nonprofit groups had been wait ing years for approval to expand. Now they are bypassed by companies who squeeze a healthy profit from the care of our elderly. Under a New Democratic Party government not one more nail would be driven to build a profit-mak ing personal care home in the Province of Manitoba. We would support only those nonprofit groups whose one desire is to undertake the tender loving care of those that have been entrusted to them. Senior citizens are properly getting angrier and angrier about the way this government has broken its promises to them.

The Premier promised dignified retirement. Few people expected that promise to mean an army of means tests. If a member of the Legislature talks to most seniors about the SAFER 31 program, he or she will get an earfu l about how they are treated like welfare cases. For a few dollars a month, the new supplement program for the elderly is worse. Many seniors watched those television ads and heard that s weet old lady with the big shopping cart talk about the dollars that she was going to receive and expected would be eligible. They heard they better look this gift horse in the mouth.

Once again, there is a means test and if they qualify, those over 65 can get no more than 7.82 a month. If, as the newspaper ads say, this is for those who need help most, it is no help at all. Few seniors could feed themselves tor a week on 7.82 a week - a month, I'm sorry, or even for a week or a day.

The blue sky gang has struck again and our senior citizens are discovering that what you see is not what you get. it could have done the Premier well to heed his own words about advert ising campaigns by government On August 19th of this year he said, if you get away with hucksterism, get away cynicism long enough, then you continue pushing your luck, it takes a cornflakes huckster to know one.

Senior citizens and many other Manitobans are in for another shock about the government's promises. lt wm come when they take a close look at the 1980 income tax form and see how many new deductions there are from the increased Property Tax Credit and the decreased Cost of Living Tax Credit Program. We are still waiting for the Finance Minister to offer any rebuttal to the calculation by the Social Planning Council that the average increase in tax credits will be 14 and not the 100 promised. When the Premier replied to the Throne Speech four years ago, he made another promise of interest to seniors.

He praised the Critical Home Repair Program and said everything about it was fine except for its budget. The budget, 5 million in 1977-78, was too small, he said. Mr. Speaker, since he took charge the budget has not been 5 million, last year and again this year it is only 2 million. lt is a hypocritical betrayal of a fine program which could be used much more effect ively to help rural and urban contractors through a very tough time. The First Minister was very concerned about interest rates four years ago.

Of course, this was well before Joe Clark unveiled his high interest rate policy and before Pierre Elliott Trudeau was able to repeat Clark's record high interest rate. Now the government does not look seriously at interest rate tax exemption or cred it, something the Premier proposed. No, they will only monitor interest rates. The promise has been broken and many in this province find that they are alone when interest pushes them to the brink of abandoning the far m, selling the house, or closing the business. The effects of record interest. rates can be seen in the latest report on farm income.

Total net income is expected to fal l from 340 million in 1978 to 100 million this year despite an increase of 360 million in realized gross income. Realized net farm income in current dollars is lower this year, last year and is forecast next year, than it was in i9 78. Four years ago the Fi rst Minister stood here and went through terrible wringing of hands about the drop in farm income, which he blamed mostly on taxes which performed then only a small portion of farm costs. The fa lling farm income did not rate mention in this Throne Speech, now that it has really

Monday, 15 December, 1980 reache d cns1s propor tion s in Manitoba. The government does not appear willing to enact any st andby loan mora torium act as a way to tell Manitobans that their gov ernment will not stand silent as rising costs crush still more economic light out of this province.

The natural disasters of the past two years rate mention, but now that his promises hl:ive put him in power the Premier's basic message to th e. farm commu nity is no dif ferent than on October 31s t, 1977, when he said, "Most of the crop is in, the grade is down, and farm income may be down, but the natural enthusiasm and optimism of the people of Manitoba," said the Premier, "will see us through these problems." Natural enthusiasm, Mr. Speaker, is a very frail reed when the wolf is at the door. Four years ago misadministration of day care was of great concern to the Premier.

To acknowledge that, and I quote, "lt will eall for gro wing government support." We all know how this promise has been fulfilled; by forcing Manitobans concerned about day care to beg this government not to cut it back. Day care maintenance grants have been frozen for three years. In the last session we had to watch the Cabinet play hide-and-go-seek with the long awaited day care expansion. At fi rst they did not know where the · . _new 4 million could be fo und; then they didn't know if it would be spent; then finally, Mr.

Speaker, in September the Minister of Commu nity Servi ces acknowledged that the announced Budget was for 1981-82 and not for 1980-81 as the Finance Minister had Stiid in May. People who are active in day care are still looking for evidence of the many new spaces and programs that have been promised. The Minister who may not be aware of the Premier's old pledge about good day care administration has def ended himself by saying the former New Democratic Party Government was no better. Mr. Speaker, .this government took over .the advantage of several years experie nce of public suppor,t for day care in Manitoba.

Their fa ilings are not excusable here. Most rec ently, Mr. Speaker, we have seen the fi rst signs in day care of the trend which is draining dollars and quality care from personal care homes, profit making publicly funde d social services. The Alabama based McDonalds of day care and Gr eat West Life have joined forced to increase their profit margin by building 100 profi t-making centres. The private sector has a central and irreplaceable role to play in Manitoba. A New Democra tic Part y government would make it clear once and for all that the private role does not include social services for profit.

We want religious and other community organizations to be able to spend every available dollar on care and attention for those who use social services. Four years ago the Premier was expressing his deep concern about the native people of Manitoba.

He said; "Native people like every other citizen of Manitoba have a right to expect real and eff ective help from their government as they wrestle with their problems." Today, one of those problems is tha t the Minister of Municipal Affa irs has cut off per capita grants to Indian Bands and provincial fu nds to the Manitoba Metis Federation. lt was an honour for me to visit a number of Indian reservations in the recent months to meet with Indian people from all corners of Manitoba. Some have told me how bitterly they regret the Premier and the Cabinet's indifference to their problems.

They were promised much and have been given nothing except cutbacks, lost opportunities and a wall of silence. Four years ago the present First Minister declared that the job of th& .Department of Education is to provide leadership: ::l'oday the Minister of Education is one of the ghosts of Christmas past. People can be sure that if they need help the Minister will be looking the other way. In Swan River, in Winnipegosis, in Elkhorn, in Thompson, in Sprague and so many other communities where the public school system is having real problems, this Minister has made himself scarce.

Major reform of public school fina nces were under way when this gov ernment took office and in the 1978 Throne Speech they said it· was .a major concern. So major, Mr. Speaker, that nothing has been for almost three years by this government, in which the provincial grants have dropped to 45.2 percent of the public school revenue, the lowest point since 1963. The Premier once spoke at length .about his dislike of high taxes , but local special levies for public schools have risen since 1977 to from 44.2 percent of revenue, the highest, level since 1957.

School boards are findi ng that :.thev-.>must close schools or cut out basic courses, not because of declining enrolment but because local taxes cannot go higher without provoking revolt in the province because the province is not picking up the slack. An open review of public school fin ances could have been held in 1978 but today we see the Minister of Education rushing around like a rooster with his head cut off trying to patch toget her in the back room enough of a change to cool the public's anger over sky-high property taxes and schools that cannot meet basic education needs.

People from the universities and community colleg(;ls say it is qjtfi cl.lltfor them to e�en get an appointment with the Minister. And he has been conspicuous by his absence from the dispute over a th ree-year fr eeze on the Univ ersity of Manitoba's athletic c�, -1he shaky accreditation of the profes sional fa culties at the University of Manitoba and the unexpectedly high cost of a building fr eeze imposed on the As siniboine Community College.

This government has provided so much leadership in the Education Dep.artment that in 1979 they had to withdraw their Public Schools Act and in 1980 they were so ashamed of it that the government members would not enter into the debate. Gr oups from across the province asked that the new Act include the standard set by our government, Bill 58.

Bill 58 was repealed however, and today there is still a feel ing that the government does not understand the special · needs of many children, and that it is dragging its feet on implementation of programs that would truly provide an appropriate education for every child in Manitoba. Teachers in Swan River are .today seriously concerned at an attempt by the school board to overturn the binding arbitration established by provincial legislation but again the Minister has been out of sight.

There is a prof ound demoralization throughout the education system and this Throne Speech merely repeated the same tired phrase we've seen about the fact tha t there is st ill a provincial bud get for 32

Monday, 15 December, 1980 education plus a promise to upda te the 13-year-old Foundation Program , a program designed for a period of rapid expansion. it is almost embarrassing to mention that four years ago the present Premier also pledged to establish a clear core curriculum including French for all schools in the province. That is a promise best forgotten by all concerned to judge by the amount of time and energy that has been wasted in not achieving it. Four years ago the First Minister declared that "a program built on the basis of federal dollars is a program built on soft money".

That idea would be quite a surprise to the Minister of Economic Development whose department has become little more than a delivery point for federal programs. In fact , Mr. Speaker, with federal dollars - the Minister ol Economic Development never enjoys hearing facts Mr. Speaker, it kind of gets to him. In fact , with federal dollars now representing about 40 percent of the provincial revenue, one wonders if the Premier thinks he is building an entire record on soft money.

Few and far between are Manitoba gover nment initiativ es taken in the past thr ee years without benefit of feder al-provincial agreement to share the costs. Four years ago the Premier was exercized about the fact that fewer and fewe r young farmers could afford to buy "!heir own fa rm. Go vern ment's loopholes in The Farmlands Protection Act have both dr iven up the price of farm land beyond its productive value, and made sure that in communities like la Broquerie less than half the land remains in Canadian hands.

The Premier's pledges about farm ownership were broken as soon as the Minister of Agriculture removed the restrictions against non resident ownership. Manitobans must remain masters in their own house. A New Democratic Party government would rest ore those rest rictions agains t absentee, corporate and foreign ownership. We hope to put this government to the test of its words with a bill of our own in this session. Mr. Speaker, during the last election campaign the Premier promised specifically that his government would not sell McKenzie Seeds.

No promise could be more clear, more precise and no promise better illustrates just how reliable the First Minister's word is. The Minister resp onsible for the Manitoba Development Corporation is still trying to flog the unique and important secondary industry at fire sale prices. (Interjections) MR. SPEA. KIER: I realize ther e are numerous members in the Chamber who would eagerly like to get involved in the de bate but we can only have one at a time. MR. PA.WlfEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A New Democratic Party government would refina nce McKenzie Seeds so it can enjoy many more years of success.

The Premier was alarmed four years ago tha t Manitoba was losing go od doctors. This province suf fered its only net loss of doctors under this Conservative government. The Throne Speech promises a Health Research Council. The last Throne Speech promised expansion of the Manitoba Research Council but nothing was done, it sti ll has the smallest budget of all the provincial research councils. There is much talk 33 about a priority on the health care industry, on research and on development.

But you know the First Minister, it's interesting again from his talk, it reminds me, as he's mentioning his usual red herrings, of the

article in Maclean's magazine when he consider ed Pierr e Burt on's books as being subversive. lt's the same sort of att itude and sentiment being expressed from his seat toda y. Whoever heard of Pierre Burt on's books being subversive, Mr. Speaker. There is much talk about a priority on the health care industry, on research and development, but what did someone in the fie ld, the new President of the University of Manitoba have to say more than a year ago, and I quote from Dr.

Naimark's remarks: "Manitoba's reputation for eKcellence in the field of medicine is being threatened by the fis cal rest raint policies of the govern ment of Premier Sterling lyon. No Ma nitoban can ignore the hostile atmosph ere toward medical research in this province". MR. 1.. YON: You'll find it was denied the next day. MR. PAW LEY: The Throne Speech exp resses apprehension about the major fed eral shared cost program . This go ve rnment's record in th ose programs and on the question of go ver nment spending makes me doubt its ability to convince Otta wa tha t restraint is unwise.

The Manitoba government has passed as many expenditures as possible along to municipal gov ernments in this province. it is clearly prepa ring to let local government and property taxpayers pick up the costs of the new RCMP agre ements, and the termination of the Community Service Contribution Program. Federal offi cials need only ask, why shouldn't we do to you what you are doing to municipal government in Manitoba?

The Hall Comm ission recently reported that ne xt to Pri nce Edward Island Manitoba was the province which withdr ew the greatest share of provincial funds from health care under the new arrangements introduced in 1977- 1978. The Canadian Assoc iation of University Teachers has demonstrated that in post secondary education, to which the arrangements also apply, the New Democratic Party gov ernment increased its share in the fi rst year, after which Manitoba plunged from fifth to sev enth place in relative share of revenue from the province.

This government has built a record of diverted provincial funds, and diversion of provincial funds is what we on this side have indeed been charging them with continuously, a record which justif ies the arrogant and restrai nt-happy fe deral government plans to slash away at our health and education programs. The First Minister spoke at some length about national unity four years ago.

He said, "l et us in Manitoba make very certain there are none who can mistake our own aspirations in this province for a faire; · position inside Confedera tion with the mistaken positions that the anti-Conf ederationists took years ago". He warned against even speaking to Rene Levesque. He who has indeed now joined forces with Rene leve sque in unholy alliance of provinces that refuse to even try and improve the fed eral government's hastily proposed resolution on the Consti tution; who has not taken many

Monday, 15 December, 1980 opportun ities to distance himself from his old comrade and present unionist leader Dick Culver, a man by way who pledged to provide Saskatchewan with the same kind of leadership that Sterling Lyon he indicated, at the time, had given to Manitoba; who has let pass unnoticed the statements of a man who one year ago was Federal Minister for Small Busine ss, Ron Huntington , who now calls for a west ern parliament and says, "If Mr.

Trudeau 's concept of fed eralism is nothing more than a brilliantly contrived vehicle to socialize Canada, then I would personally would rather see western Canada out". Yes, it is the same man who four years ago implied that the New Democratic Party government of the day was frozi ng up to Quebec separatists. The Premier was corr ect when he told a September Constitutional Conf erence that the people of this province considered themselves Canadians first and Manitobans seco nd.

On behalf of all Manitobans, I urge the Premier to put aside his personal diffe rences with the Prime Minister, a man tha t few of us admire, and start showing it is possible to differ with the Prime Minister, while standing up against western or eastern separatists, standing up for Canada. Mr. Speaker, this brief review of Conservat ive broken promises could go on and on, and on, but I close with one that in light of acute protracted disaster, which has been Manitoba's misfor tune is too ironic to omit.

The present Premier stood here as Leader of the Opposition and accused the then government of being "immobilized by the need to control gro wth and spending". He would not take that path, instead the Conservatives wou ld "do it by putting a stop to go ver nment involvement in business". Their restraint program and the death bed repentance which has lead to only partial withdrawal of government ownership of businesses, speaks volumes about the reliability of the Leader who made that pledge of his economic program.

No doubt there is at least one person a day who walks down Por tage Avenue now with a spring in their step. lt is hard to imagine that they do it because of the Conservative record in Manitoba, a record of economic decline, secrets, refusal to listen, an endless list of broken promises, that is what this government's record means to many Manitobans. No government is perfect but few have made such a mess of things in so short a time. Within 21 months ther e must be a provi ncial election in Manitoba.

This desperate gover nment may succeed in buying a major new project with Manitoba resources just as another Conservat ive Go vernment did before the 1969 election. I do not take it upon myself to guess how the people of Manitoba vote in that election, whenever it does come, however all that we can indicate, Mr. Speaker, is that we will promise to do our best for Manitoba as Leader of my party, Leader of the Opposition, fight that election when it comes, so that again in the Province of Manitoba we can have a province that we can be proud of. Mr.

Speaker, I move, seconded by the Honourable Member for Brandon East tha t the motion be amended by adding to it the followi ng: " That this House regrets that this government: (1) has persis ted in policies which have mismanaged Manitoba's economy; lead to a decline of economic growth, from 80 percent of the national average under the previous gov ernment, to 10 percent of the national average; and to the worst job creation rate in 1979 and in the fi rst 11 months of 1980, policies which have increased the cost of living for all Manitobans, particularly the elderly, working people, small business; (2) has broken its promises to the people of Manitoba; in particular young people, northerners, farmers, those in the Winnipeg Core; (3) has refused to listen to the people of Manitoba, has conduc ted eco nomic and reso urce planning in total secrecy, causing a loss of confidence in this government, and; (4) has failed completely to meet its own standards of fiscal management and go ver nment effi ciency." MOTION presented.

MR. SPEAKER: The Honour able Minister of Transportation. MR. ORCHARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I take a great deal of pleasure in entering into the Throne Speech debate at this juncture, particularly af ter having follo wed the Leader of � Opposition, who put himself to sleep with his owri ·speech and forgot to put the motion on the floor. Mr. Speaker, I think in the history of this House, I don't think a Leader of the Opposition has ever forgotten to put his own motion before the House, follo wing such a long and boring speech. lt pr oves positive, Mr.

Speaker, that this day ranks among the highest in my political career. Today ranks among the days in my political career to go along with the day th at at a nomination mee ting in Pem bina constituency, before some 1,200 voting delegates at my nomination convention, that I received the nod to represent our party. This day stands well in importance to me as the day we won the election in 1977, and I won the seat as the MLA for Pembina, along with 32 other Conservatives under the good and firm and strong leadership of our Premier, Mr. Speaker. This day, Mr.

Speaker, ranks in importance to me with the day after the election in 1977 and during the Throne Speech, I had· the privilege and the honour of moving the motion on the fi rst Throne Speech that this government ever put. Why does it rank in those kind of days in political importance to me, Mr. Speaker? Because on Thursday, Mr. Speaker, of last week I listened to the most progressive Throne Speech that this province has ever heard in the last two decades. Mr. Speaker, it was interes ting to watch the members of the Opposition come gleefully to their seats at the start of the session at 2:00 p.m. on Thursday.

There were a number of smiles and cheery looks on their faces. There were even some perky red flo wers on their lapels but, Mr. Speaker, aft er page three only, of that Throne Speech debate, the colour was leaving the faces , the smi les were gone, the red carnations were wilting. Mr. Speaker, during page three and thereon the Leader of the Opposition lost the "w" in his last name and he turned into Paley, just to recognize his face and his feat ures, as he saw the kind of initiatives that this government after three years of 34

Monday, 15 December, 1980 work and reconstruction in the government process of this province has been able to bring towards the people of Manitoba as propositions for the futur e into the '80s. Very Paley, Mr. Speaker, very Paley. Now, Mr. Speaker, I think it is important at this stage of the game that we step back and we take a look at the past three years in the province. The Leader of the Opposition just finished, Mr. Speaker, with a speech, I believe, that indicated that ours was a government of broken promises. He even made some further ridiculous claims, Mr.

Speaker, that he and his party and their policies were going to be the salvation of the province. Well, Mr. Speaker, during the entire speech, and I listened ail but two brief respites, I didn't hear one sugges tion from the Leader of the Opposition, as to No. (1) what he would do in a positive policy direction; or No. (2) where he was going to find the wherewithal to solve the problems that he perceives from his standpoint in the Province of Manitoba. No policy, Mr. Speaker, nothing but regurgitation of things that are tired and worn out. Mr.

Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition, I'm afraid after today has seen the vision of his political career go before his eyes as a drowning man, he sees the leadership slipping away, and he sees the chance of him ever becom ing Premier of this province dashed 9nd gone. And that has to hurt the Leader of the Opposition and I'm sorry that the Member for Transcona wasn't here to listen to the speech today, because the Member for Transcona would have to have a great deal of interest in his falter ing leader, because I think he has alluded on several occasions that he would like to replace him. Mr.

Speaker, he's not going to get the chance and its unfor tunate arid I feel no personal malice towards the Leader of the Opposition but in terms of pure political joy, I was pleased to see him falter and drop the ball today in his Throne Speech debate. Mr. Speaker, going back to 1977, what were some of the campaign platform planks that the Progressive Conservat ive party laid before the people of Manitoba? First of all, they indicated that they were going to reduce taxes. I don't have to specify to members opposite what taxes have been red uced. We've reduced a number of them.

Is that one of the broken election promises that the Leader of the Opposition is ref erring to in his speech? I think not, Mr. Speaker. it's interesting, Mr. Speaker, I hear, I did not see it, but I understand that the Member for St. Johns, that vehement opponent of the abolition of succession duties, who has becried us and derided us for feed ing the rich in reducing the succession duties, on a television program very recently said, well, you know, we were about to abolish them, we were about to abolish them. That's what the Member for St. Johns said, and Mr.

Speaker, ! will ask him to correct me if that was the wrong impression that the viewer of that program got and gave to me. If that is an incorrect supposition that the Mem ber for St. Johns put out, I will apologise publicly because, Mr. Speaker, I don't believe he said it, and if he said it, I certainly don't believe that he meant it, Mr. Speaker. What he is doing, along with his gang over there, is the typical Socialist/Li beral kind of campaigning where they promise the world and then aft er they deliver power then they do what they want.

They don't tell you what they're going to do beforeh and, they only do it af ter. Now, Mr. Speaker, the other thing that I was very interested in hearing the Leader of the Opposition refer to, was all the good things that he was going to do for small business in the Province of Manitoba, like the corporate capital investment tax. Remember that one gentlemen? That was the good thing that he did to the small business community in Manitoba. They appreciated it, gentlemen, so much that they voted you out of power in 1977.

Is that one of the majors you're going to do to restore the confidence of the small business group in Manitoba? Please tell us and tell the people of Manitoba on the election platform the next time we go to the people. Don't try to deceive the people; the people are wiser than what you think. Mr. Speaker, are they going to create more jobs in Manitoba? Are they going to revert back to that tremendous record of job creation in 1976 that they so of ten refer to in glowing terms, of 4,000 new jobs per year, many of which were Civil Service jobs?

Are they going to better that record of ours in which 30,0 00 jobs, all in the private sector, have been created since 1977? Are they going to replace it with the same kind of policies in 1977 that lead to 4,000 jobs per year? I think not, Mr. Speaker, but that was what they wanted, government control and create the jobs within the Civil Service. Have the taxpayers pay for the jobs that they wanted to create, not have private industry and private incentive create the jobs that are needed for Manitobans. Mr.

Speal<er, if that's the kind of job creation record they're going to back to - 4,000 per year, compared to the 10,000 per year on an average that we have had in our administration; tell the people of Manitoba that's what you're going to do, they'll be interested in hearing and they'll answer you the same in the next election as they did in 1977. Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition referred to housing starts and how they are down, and he suggested we do something about housing starts. I had the ple asure in 1978 to accompany the Minister of Education to that booming community of The Pas. Mr.

Speaker, whilst there I took the opportunity to tour Bell Avenue, and on Bell Avenue were 48 brand new homes built by that administration. They were fully built, landscaped and ready for people. There was one problem, Mr. Speaker, there were no people to go into those houses: Those houses were empty and they stayed empty for a year and a halt Is that the kind of housing thrust that the NDP want to put on this province? Have the government build houses that aren't needed? Mr.

Speaker, I believe that the province had some 45,0 00 to 50,0 00 per home invested in those homes, and they ended up selling them up for something less than 35,0 00.00. Is that the kind of housing initiatives our NDP friends are going to tell the people of Manitoba th ey will institute? Tell them, tell them, gentlemen, and they will tell you. !\low, Mr. Speaker, th ey want to talk about changes since 1977.

What about the Legislative changes in the fam ily iaw package, which is the leading family law package in all the provinces in this great domain of ours, and who in the Constitutional talks put those policies and programs for th? Our Premier and our Attorney-G eneral, to the credit of every women's organization in Canada. 35

Monday, 15 December, 1980 Mr. Speaker, did those programs get support? No, I'm sorry to say they didn't get support and we are fighting to have those programs supported by the rest of the provinces and by the federal government. Are we wrong to be fig hting, one out of 10, fighting against the majority for that kind of change? I think not, Mr. Speaker, and the letters from the women's associa tions across Canada say tha t we' re not wrong. They say we're right and they encourage us to do it.

Is that the kind of change that the NDP would have us and the Leader of the Opposition would have us do in constitutional talks, to back down on the principle that's right and correct for the people of Canada and particularly for the women of Canada? No, I don't think so. Mr. Speaker, what policy would the Leader of the Opposition have us present in constitutional talks? We heard him talk about how wrong we were doing things in constitutional talks but we haven't heard one word about he would ha ve done or what his position is. We do not know, Mr.

Speaker, and I suggest we will never find out because I don't think he has a policy. He will be like the Premier of Saskatchewan and sit on the fence and find which way the wind is blowing but the wind will blow him off the fence as it did to the Premier of Saskatchewan, Mr. Speaker. We took a position and our Premier in this provi nce took a position on the cons titutional change, Mr. Speaker. That position was not the popular position if you went according to the public opinion polls, but it was the correct position. lt was the right position; it was the justifiable position.

Since when, in this democracy, is standing up for what is right, what is justifiable and what is correct being on the wrong side of the fence as the leader of the Opposition would have the people of Manitoba believe? I say we're right and furthermore, the latest Gallup poll says we are right. Public opinion in Canada is turning around. What has made public opinion in Canada turn around, Mr. Speaker? I want to tell you what; the leadership of the Premier of Manitoba has turned public opinion around as in his position of leadership of Chairman of the Council of Provincial Premiers. That has been a long time.

Now can you fea ture, Mr. Speaker, can any of you people on tha t side of the House feat ure your leader as President of the Premiers' Conf erence in Canada and taking the . . . can you imagine your leader carrying the ball for the provinces? Mr. Speaker, very few Ma nitobans can. For instance, what was the question that was asked, gentlemen, what was the question that was asked by the Leader of the Opposition about who recognizes someone? Who was the person he was looking for to be recognized? No one recognized - oh, that was it.

They blamed my colleague, the MLA for Thompson, for never seeing him and wanting to know who their member was or who the Minister of Northern Affa irs was. That was it. I have Manitobans every day ask me who the Leader of the Opposition is. They wonder if it might be the MLA for lnkster because he's the most effe ctive voice that the New Democrats have in the House today but unfor tunately, he saw the fallacy in the way your policies are going and the way your backroom boys are tal<ing you down the road, not to socialism, but maybe to the communism of the world and he pulled out.

He pulled out in his wisdom in a stand for the principles of socialism. You people are gone. You people are gone. You are leaderless over there and you saw the paleness come into you people on Thursday of last week and it was a political joy to see you lost and floundering. Today was a further evidence of that joy. They talk about what have we done in three years. Well, we'v e change d mining reg ulations, Mr. Speaker, and we have oil exploration. We have hard rock mineral exploration in northern Manitoba to levels never before in the his tory of this province. Why, Mr. Speaker?

Because we made incentive there for people to come in and do it. We didn't force any hard rock exploration to be a 50-50 partnership. Either our way or the high way was the way you did it. We changed the regula tions to make it competitive with every other province in Canada. You will change it back. We would like to hear you say to the people of Manitoba that you will change it back because the people in Flin Flon would like to know that you're going to change it back, to go back to the years where there is no mineral exploration.

The people of Lynn Lake wou ld like to hear you're going to change it back so there is no mineral exploration in northern Manitoba. Tell the people what you're going to do and they will make the same decision as they did in 1977. Mr. Speaker, the real fun comes when you put into perspective the last two years of the Socialist government in Manitoba, 1977 and 1976. This is where Manitoba, and I w as part of the farm economy in Manitoba in 1976-77. That farm economy was very buoyant then and with a buoyant farm economy, Mr. Speaker, what was their record of job creation?

Well, it was 4,000 jobs per year and at the same time they had Hydro ongoing, employing many many people in the Hydro projects. The best the Manitoba economy at that time could generate was 4,000 additional jobs for the people of Manitoba per year. Now, Mr. Speaker, certainly farm ing is not buoyant. I will be the fi rst one to admit it because I am direct ly affected at home. But, Mr. Speaker, this econony, despite the fact that the fa rming has levelled off and not on the buoyant rise it was in 1976 and 1977, the economy has still been good enough to generate 10,000 additional new jobs per year on average.

Now, Mr. Speaker, what does that telegraph to anybody who is a reasonable observer of the economy? That means that the confidence has been restored to the direction this government is taking the economy. Small busi ness are making th ose investments in the economy of Manitoba to create the jobs. I just wish, Mr. Speaker, I beg members of the opposition at 7:30 tonight to watch CBC. There is the Points West Program tha t has a half -hour program on the Morden-Winkler area and they are out there showing what is diff erent about those towns and why th ey are gr owi ng.

Gentlemen opposite should watch it; it would be of gr eat edifica tion to you to watch that. Mr. Sp eaker, so what has been the net result of the policy development, the tax cuts, the change in legislation that this government has put before the House and the people of Ma nitoba? I was very fasc inated on Friday by a question from the MLA for Rossmere. The MLA for Rossmere asked, I think, the Minister of Economic Development what he had done 36

Monday, 15 December, 1980 about some plant closure in town? Had he contacted them? Had he done anything about this plant closure? As if to leave the impression, Mr. Speaker, that the Socialist government for eight years were immune to plant closings and that nothing had ever closed down in Manitoba during their eight years. Now, Mr. Speaker, I want to refer members opposite to a town called Minnedosa; it's in western Manitoba. In 1973, the distille ry in Minnedosa closed down.

I asked the question, what did the government of the day do to pr event that and save those jobs and that industry for the town of Minnedosa? Mr. Speaker, the obvious answer is nothing and they did nothing for tour more years. Now, Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the question, what has this government done for that distillery in the town of Minnedosa? First of all, Mr. Speaker, we changed the attitude towards priv ate inves tment in this province. Something that was not in favo ur under the previous administration but we want, that's the first thing that changed in attitude. The second thing, Mr.

Speaker, was, the Minister of Agriculture and his colleagues in caucus developed a program whereby we emphasized the further processing of agricultural produc ts in this province. The thir d thing th at happened was a tax change to make gasohol a competitive product on the market. What do we have now, Mr. Speaker, after th ree years of our gov ernment?

We have a priv ate Canadian oil company renewing the distillery that was closed down in 1973 under the Socialists to create jobs, to take grain products from the farmers in the local area to produce alcohol to solve the energy crisis situation that we are fast approaching. What has this gov ernment done, Mr. Speaker? i sugg est this government has done a significant thing. That is the first plant in Canada to produce .methyl alcohol for gasohol produc tion. The fi rst plant in Canada. Manitoba is the leader in that field. Do we hear our honourable friends opposite say anything about it? No. Why?

They are a little bit embarrassed about that because when !he distillery closed down in 1973 while they sat on their Socialist hands and did nothing. That is an embarrassment to the members opposite and it will always be an embarrassment as that plant produces energy for Manitobans, Mr. Speaker, from Manitoba products with Ma nitoba grains. That is the goal of this government and that is one of the examples of the success of our government. Let me, gentlemen, give you one more example. There are many but let me give you one more; one that you probably hav en't heard about.

Following further on the Minister of Agriculture's policy of further processing of agricultural products grown in Manitoba to more marketable state, we have a plant at Harrowby, Ma nitoba, to crush oil seed s. Mr. Speaker, with an investment of 35 million-plus, and a creation of a number of jobs, 100-plus, I believe, is the figure; now, Mr. Speaker, I realize that Harrowby is not a place that is known to too many people opposite but it's very close to Rus sel! and very near and dear to the Speaker of the House, ladies and gentlemen. Mr.

Speaker, that is a 35 million to 40 million investment, new iobs and further processing Manitoba agricultural prod ucts. That is a significant step towards the balanced economy that Manitoba needs, to utilize their agricultural products in fin ished 37 form and marl<et them that way, rather than ship the grain down to Ontario to crush them in Windsor. This brings another classic one that I have. I hear the Leader of the Opposition say that we should be supporting and going along with Ontario in our constitutional debate and in the energy debate. Mr.

Speal<er, who do we want as a friend for processing of our agricultural products as one small example? Do we want Ontario, where they talked the federal government in the DREE grants to locate a crushing plant at Windsow to do what? To take rapeseed at the Crows rate frei ght rates down there and crush it and ship the oil back to Manitoba or do we want to have a plant at Harrowby doing it? I suggest we want Harrowby but the Leader of the Opposition wants to go with Ontario because Ontario is going to help us a lot, gentlemen, in our industrial development program.

The Leader of the Opposition, in terms of his drive for energy policy, would have us support Ontario and get our oil supplies from Ontario who gets them from the sheiks of Arabia at 38 a barrel. That's who he wants us to side with. Now, Mr. Speaker, i can't ag ree with the Leader of the Opposition and Manitobans don't agree with the Leader of the Opposition that Ontario all of a sudden is our friend and Alberta isn't, as he would like to paint it. -(Int erjection)- thank you, I believe, Mr. Leader of the Oppositi on. That is food that is delicately used at home. Mr.

Speaker, I want to point out one other small economic development that happened right in my own constituency. lt was a firm by the name of Tupperware. They have located in Morden and they now employ some 150 people. They are in Manitoba, employing Manitobans, and using vast amounts of electricity, Mr. Speaker, to produce products for sale all across Canada and North America. The leadef oi the Opposition indicates tha t his Minister of Economic Dev elopment brought tha t plant to Manitoba. Mr.

Speaker, prior to the election I unde rstand the company had two choic es ol location, Manitoba or Alberta and depending on the outcome of the election it would have been Alberta with the Social ists winning, Manitoba with the Conservatives winning. Mr. Speaker, they are now in Manitoba which proves that. Aiberta would have gained a plant with the Socialists on this side of the House aft er 1977 and that plant employs 150 of my constituents. I'm proud to have it in Manitoba and I'm proud to have that multi-national there. Go do wn.

I beg the leader of the Opposition to go down and tour the Tup perware plant in Morden and tell those people that they are working for a ruthless, multi national corporation who is going to skin them alive. Go down and tell them because when they cash their pay cheques at the end of every day, they don't particularly care if that corporation has headquarters in Oriando, Florida. They are glad to have the jobs and so am I glad to have the jobs in Morden, Manitoba. it's a benefit to the community; it's a benefit to the poovince and it's a benefit to Canada. But, Mr.

Speaker, those kind of projects the Leader of the Opposition would just as soon not have because he doesn't own them. He would rather have Saunders Aircraft in Gimii as his industrial thrust for the future. Mr. Speaker, there is one other little project that I just want to allude to before I get into the Throne

Monday, 15 December, 1980 Speech itself. In the Member for Brandon East's very own constituency is a company that I have very fond recol lections of. it's called Simpl ot Chem ical Company. Mr. Speaker, unbeknownst to anybody in this Ho use - and I don't even think the Member for Brandon East knows even though it's in his constituency - they are undertaking a 38 million expansion of their fert ilizer plant in Manitoba today. How many people in this House knew that? The Leader of the Opposition sits there with a blank look on his face. He didn't know that was happening. Mr.

Speaker, the agricu ltural expert from the ND P caucus, the MLA for Winnipeg Centre, has spoken. He says they are going sell fert ilizer cheaper to the United States. Mr. Speaker, do you know what is involved in that ammonia plant expansion out at Brandon? Do you know what is involved with that? They are taking two natural resources, one of them is na tural gas from Alberta and the second one is electricity from Manitoba and they are manuf acturing anhydrous ammonia for whom?

For the farmers in Manitoba, the farmers in Ontario, the farmers in Saskatchewan and yes indeed, the farmers in the USA, and thank heaven that we are able to convert hydro-electricity in Manitoba to a finish ed product that moves out as an export product from this province. I don't agree with what the Member for Winnipeg Centre says, that it's a terrible thing to do. Go and tell the people who work in the plant that that's a terrible thing to do.

Tell the people whose jobs depend on that ammonia plant running and the sales from that plant that you don't want them to have their job, go out and tell them that and see how quickly they show you the entrance to the plant as an exit. Now. Mr. Speaker, the mem bers over here have failed to recognize, and

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	31-5-3a
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	31st 5th hansardpdf 3a.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	7d7fb85272ae34ed990642e3c389f207c4b50e02

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