Newfoundland and Labrador Hansard — Members' Statements; Statements by Ministers — 7 December 2006 (45th General Assembly, 3rd Session, Vol. XLV No. 36)
2006-12-07
Newfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)
December 7, 2006 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY
PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLV No. 36
The House met at 1:30 p.m.
MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!
Admit Strangers
This afternoon we are very pleased to welcome to the public galleries eight
students from the Discovery Centre, with their teachers, Ms Margaret Taylor and
Ms Paula King. These students are from the Districts of Harbour Main-Whitbourne,
Trinity-Bay de Verde, Port de Grave and Placentia & St. Mary's. Their
Welcome to our House.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: We are very pleased as well to welcome a delegation of
volunteer firefighters from the Riverhead Volunteer Fire Department, the
District of Placentia & St. Mary's. We are welcoming Alan Lee, Gerald Lee,
Thomas Lee, George Whalen, Stephen Critch, Billy Squires and Earl Kielly.
Welcome.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: I also notice in the gallery the Mayor of Corner Brook,
Mayor Charles Pender.
Welcome, Mayor Pender.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
Statements by Members
MR. SPEAKER: We have members statements as follows: The hon. the Member
for Grand Bank; the hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's; the hon.
the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse Au Clair; the hon. the Member for Topsail;
the hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi; and the hon. the Member for
Humber Valley.
The Chair recognizes the Member for the District of Grand Bank.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to recognize Cheryl Grandy of
Garnish. Cheryl is one of 700 students across Canada to receive a 2006-2007
Canadian Millennium Excellence Award, and she is one of thirteen in this
Province.
The Millennium Excellence Award seeks to recognize the leaders of today and
tomorrow and emphasizes the importance of supporting their contributions to our
country's future. Millennium Excellence Awards are not prizes for benchmarks
achieved. They are investments in the development of exceptional individuals who
will have long, productive careers and whose accomplishments will benefit Canada
as a whole.
The award is given by the Canadian Millennium Scholarship Foundation and
valued at $4,000. The foundation is a private, independent organization created
by
an act in Parliament in 1998. It encourages Canadian students to strive for
excellence and pursue their post-secondary studies.
Cheryl is presently in her last year of the Office Administration Program at
the College of the North Atlantic in Burin. She is the daughter of Clifford and
Darlene Grandy of Garnish.
Other winners include: Holly Baker, Sarah Carter, Robin Clouston, Leslie
Hewitt, Ashley Kapoor, Susan Gale and Stephen Woodworth, who listed their
addresses as St. John's; Curtis Budden and Stacey Parsons of Mount Pearl;
Susannah Pilgrim of Corner Brook; Susan Ryan of Marysvale; Danielle Walters of
Port aux Basques, and Waylon Wiseman of Kippens.
Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join me in congratulating
Cheryl and the other winners and wishing them well in all future endeavours.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. F. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I rise in the House today to pay tribute to the volunteer fire
brigades of the Towns of Riverhead and Placentia.
On September 6, I attended an awards ceremony in Riverhead and was pleased to
present thirty-year service awards to firefighters: Allan Lee, Thomas Lee,
Gerald Lee, George Whelan and Stephen Critch. A twenty-year service award was
presented to Chief Billy Squires and a ten-year service award went to Kevin
Squires and Jerome Fagan.
The Riverhead Fire Department serves the communities of Riverhead, Mall Bay,
St. Mary's, Point la Haye and the Gaskiers. It is a very well trained, very
active and vibrant brigade under the leadership of Chief Squires and an
executive led by Earl Kieley.
On November 25, Mr. Speaker, I attended the annual firefighter's ball in
Placentia and was honoured to present twenty-five year awards to: Valentine
Careen, Lorne Collins, Frank Coombs, and James O'Keefe, and a twenty-year
service award to Raymond Roche.
The Placentia Fire Department is an amalgamation of three separate brigades -
Placentia, Dunville and Freshwater - which came about in 1992 when these towns
amalgamated. It is an exemplary brigade under Chief Wayne Power, and it is a
shining example and a model of regionalization and amalgamation in this
Province. After fourteen years of growing pains, the town has now turned the sod
for a Central Fire Department in Freshwater.
Mr. Speaker, the men and women of these two fire brigades of Riverhead and
Placentia epitomize what volunteerism and community involvement is all about.
I ask this hon. House today to join me in congratulating the firefighters of
the Fire Departments of Riverhead and Placentia.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to congratulate three women from Newfoundland and Labrador who
have achieved excellence in the field of nursing.
I want to congratulate Kathy Fitzgerald, Margaret Hackett and Alice Gaudine
who were recognized with Awards of Excellence in Nursing at the annual meeting
of the Association of Registered Nurses of Newfoundland and Labrador in October.
Mr. Speaker, all recipients were nominated by peers and selected through a
rigorous peer review process.
Kathy Fitzgerald, who is an RN, BN, received the Award for Excellence in
Nursing Practice. Fitzgerald is the Patient Care Co-ordinator at the Dr. Bliss
Murphy Cancer Centre in the Cancer Care Program of Eastern Health. She is
described as "the epitome of professional nursing" - a very caring and
compassionate nurse who continually goes beyond and above what is expected of
her by her patients. She is also recognized for her leadership in the
development of oncology nursing practice in the Province.
Margaret Hackett, who is an RN, BScN, MScN (Applied), received the Award for
Excellence in Nursing Education. Hackett is an associate professor at Memorial
University School of Nursing. Throughout her twenty-eight year career, she has
been committed to improving the quality of nursing education in the Province and
at the national level. Students describe the high quality of her teaching and
consistently give the highest ratings for her teaching ability.
Alice Gaudine, who is an RN, MScN (Applied), PhD, received the Award of
Excellence in Nursing Research. Gaudine is an associate professor at Memorial
University School of Nursing. She is an internationally recognized researcher in
the area of organizational behaviour, ethics and health interventions. She has
an impressive record of research and is described as being one of the top
ranking nurse researchers in Canada.
Mr. Speaker, I ask my colleagues in this House to join with me in
congratulating these three women: Kathy Fitzgerald, Margaret Hackett and Alice
Gaudine, who were recognized with Awards of Excellence in Nursing from the
Association of Registered Nurses of Newfoundland and Labrador.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Topsail.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS E. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I rise in this House today to congratulate the students,
teachers and parents of Holy Spirit High School for the recent completion of an
environmental initiative on the school grounds titled: The Frog Pond Ecological
Restoration Project.
Mr. Speaker, this project is the restoration and creation of a wildlife
habitat onsite. It provides tremendous opportunities for learning experiences by
students in Chemistry, Biology, Earth Science and Environmental Science. This
project also provided a wonderful opportunity to let students themselves take a
leadership role in the project, thus giving them ownership of the grounds and
the newly created park.
The key aspects of the Frog Pond design are its wetland and bios wale areas
that together comprise an innovative ecological process using natural means and
native plants. Besides adding natural beauty to the area, the re-graded and
vegetated stream and pools provide new habitats for birds and mammals, and
improves water quality before it enters the pond and the Manuels River. Access
to the pond's edge is provided through a
section of boardwalk with lookouts,
footbridges and granular walks.
Planting throughout the site consists of hardy native plant material. Plants
were used to enhance wildlife habitats, create favorable microclimates and
screen views to and from the site. Initial work began in 2003 and concluded in
Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this hon. House to join me in
congratulating the students, teachers, parents, the school council and the
principal of Holy Spirit High School, Mr Scott Crocker, on the completion of the
Ecological Restoration Project.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Humber Valley.
MS GOUDIE: Mr. Speaker, it is with great pride that I rise in this hon.
House today to congratulate and acknowledge the Memorial University Power
Cheerleading Girls. They claimed the top spot for the second year in a row at
the 2006 Power Cheerleading Athletics and Open National Championships held in
Brampton, Ontario, this past weekend.
The team, consisting of thirty-three girls from all over this Province,
including the District of Humber Valley, competed and earned the top prize at
the Powerade Center. The talent and dedication demonstrated by these young
ladies was absolutely phenomenal. I was also like to take this opportunity to
recognize and congratulate their coaches, Angela Burke and Kerry Hart. These
ladies represented our Province well, and we are very proud of them.
I would ask that all members rise with me today to congratulate the MUN Power
Cheerleaders on their impressive repeat victory. This truly is quite an
accomplishment.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Statements by Ministers.
Statements by Ministers
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural
Development.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I rise today to tell honourable members about an initiative the
Department of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development is undertaking to improve
the economy of our Province.
Over the last number of years, we have helped form a number of business
networks in Newfoundland and Labrador in which the goal has been economy of
scale and the pursuit of new markets.
On the Northern Peninsula, for example, we have helped twelve companies form
a business network and last year helped them travel to Greenland, and this year
to New Brunswick, where there exists, in Greenland, a housing shortage and a
lack of skilled people to build them.
As a result of that visit, three of the companies, which are all in woods and
construction related industries, have formed a consortium to build prefab
modular houses in Newfoundland and Labrador to be shipped to Greenland.
Further south, in the Stephenville-Corner Brook area, the metal fabrication
industry was looking for new opportunities and new markets. So we helped six
metal fabricators form a business network in that area.
Mr. Speaker, as we all know, the Alberta metal fabricators are stretched to
capacity and a market exists for exporting metal products to Alberta. A
transportation study was carried out, funded by our department, as well as a
capacity study, funded by our department, to see if it was feasible to
manufacture and send goods to Alberta, and, Mr. Speaker, it is. Next month,
network representatives will travel to Alberta to look for new clients.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to add, that we are working on identifying
opportunities in Alberta for metal fabrication companies all throughout the
Province, and will lead a further mission to the buyer-sellers forum in Calgary
in March.
Mr. Speaker, this Province has a long history of co-operatives. Since
February, we have helped form four business co-operatives: a three farm
co-operative in Labrador; a three farm co-operative in Robinsons; a
Province-wide, fourteen member blueberry co-operative, and a six member
e-business co-operative on the Baccalieu Trail. These co-operatives allow for
lower costs through sharing of equipment and increased marketing opportunities.
Finally, Mr. Speaker, when these companies become successful, and I have no
doubt that they will, they will need financial help. One source is from people
called angel investors, sponsors with deep pockets. To this end, we have
invested $40,000 in the St. John's Board of Trade's Angel Network. The Board
will bring companies and potential investors together, including companies in
rural parts of our Province.
Mr. Speaker, business networks are part of our broad array of tools to help
business. Other tools include our Small and Medium-sized Enterprise Fund, the
Business and Market Development Program and our new Commercialization Program.
With these tools, the Department of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development is
helping grow the economy of Newfoundland and Labrador.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.
MS FOOTE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I thank the minister for an advanced copy of his statement today.
One aspect of the statement I found really interesting and that is the one
about trying to find, I guess, exporting opportunities for metal fabricators
here in this Province and going and looking to Alberta for that. I do not know
if the minister realizes but almost everything required for metal fabrication
for an oil rig must be blasted, specialized, coated and/or galvanized. The
problem we have in this Province, Mr. Speaker, is that there is no coating or
galvanizing facility in Newfoundland and Labrador, which makes us less
competitive.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MS FOOTE: That is true. So, if you do not have this kind of facility in
Newfoundland and Labrador, but you have the same thing in Nova Scotia or New
Brunswick, then we are going to be much less competitive. So I would encourage
the minister to, in fact, look at putting such a facility - working with the
local industry - in this Province.
I would also encourage the minister to look other than just in the
Stephenville, Corner Brook area. I know on the Burin Peninsula there are metal
fabricators and I know that one local businessman, in particular, spent his own
money to advertise for ten days in the Calgary Herald and the Calgary
Sun with no response, looking for opportunities for metal fabrication. So, I
would encourage the minister to look beyond the Stephenville, Corner Brook area
and to expand into other areas of this Province, particularly in rural
Newfoundland and Labrador.
Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. R. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I thank the minister for an advanced copy of his statement.
I would say, Mr. Speaker, as well, that we are very pleased government is
involved in the co-operatives because in rural parts of this Province
co-operatives are the way to go, for a whole lot of reasons that make economic
sense.
I would also encourage the member, as the previous speaker said, Mr. Speaker,
to look to other areas. In Labrador, for an example, there are several
fabrication shops and the transportation system from Labrador to mainland Canada
is much more efficient than it is from the Island portion of the Province; not
that the work cannot be done here but it should not be restricted to here when
opportunities are available to be explored in regions of Labrador.
Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?
The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, I rise in this hon. House today to congratulate
the Nunatsiavut Government on its first anniversary as a new government in our
Province.
Mr. Speaker, it was two years ago yesterday that the Labrador Inuit Land
Claims Agreement legislation was ratified in this House, and approximately one
year ago that the Nunatsiavut Government was created.
The first year of self-government has been a challenging one for all
concerned but great progress has been made.
Following the creation of the Nunatsiavut Government, they went about the
task of putting in place the legislation and structures to operate as a new
government.
On October 4, 2006, the Nunatsiavut Government held its first general
election for Nunatsiavut Assembly members. The election resulted in the
selection of eight ordinary members representing Labrador Inuit in the
Nunatsiavut Assembly. On October 16 of this year, Mr. Speaker, the members of
the new Legislature were sworn in. Also, sworn in was Mr. Todd Broomfield, the
first elected Speaker of the Nunatsiavut Assembly.
As well, Inuit Community Governments have been put in place to replace the
municipal governments in Nain, Hopedale, Makkovik, Rigolet and Postville. Our
government is now working to transfer Crown lands to the Inuit Community
Governments.
An implementation committee has been put in place to oversee the
implementation of the agreement. A fisheries board, wildlife and plants
management board and a regional planning authority will commence operations in
The fisheries board and wildlife and plants board will give advice on the
management of natural resources in the Labrador Inuit Settlement Area as per the
The regional planning authority will develop a Land Use Plan for Labrador
Inuit lands over the course of the next three years. The Labrador Inuit Land
Claims Agreement, Mr. Speaker, provides for a new era of independence for
Labrador Inuit.
The agreement also provided for the formal establishment of the Torngat
of approximately 9,600 square kilometres. For almost thirty years the Inuit of
Labrador worked toward achieving this agreement, along with their partners in
the federal and provincial governments.
I would like to take this opportunity, Mr. Speaker, to congratulate the
Nunatsiavut Government on a successful first year. Our government looks forward
to continuing to have a positive working relationship with President William
Andersen III and the Nunatsiavut Government on a go-forward basis well into the
future.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Order, please!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Torngat Mountains.
MR. ANDERSEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I want to say to the minister: nakummek. Thank you for an advanced copy of
your statement. Minister, it is a great statement you made here today.
Also, minister, there is more than politics involved when you come to this
type of work. I want to thank you for the work you carried on when your
government took over in 2003 to finish the job that we had started. Again, to
you minister, thank you for the work you have done.
No doubt, Minister, it was a long time coming, over thirty years. These
people will move forward to build a better future for themselves, for their
children, and for the Inuit of Labrador.
Minister, I would ask you, I would plead with you, in your role - yes, there
are a lot of things they have to overcome - I ask you, as the minister who holds
the portfolio of Aboriginal Affairs, to stick with them and to do whatever you
can to make this Land Claims Agreement the way it is supposed to be, and that it
to benefit Inuit people on the North Coast of Labrador.
Nakumnek, thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. R. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
We, too, would like to join in congratulating all of those elected in the
Nunatsiavut Government and wish them well in the years to come. After thirty
years of struggle, I think that speaks to the determination and fortitude of the
Inuit people. I am sure that same determination and fortitude will make them
work hard to achieve things that seemed impossible a few years ago, as they go
forward into the future. For many areas, they will be masters of their own
destiny.
We certainly wish them well and offer them encouragement and support in any
way that we can.
Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?
The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works, and Minister Responsible
for Labrador Affairs.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HICKEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I rise today to invite all Members of the House of Assembly,
government employees and their families, and the general public, to the annual
Christmas Lights Across Canada ceremony this evening. It will take place in the
main lobby of the East Block of Confederation Building at 6:15 p.m.
Christmas Lights Across Canada has become a tradition here in Newfoundland
and Labrador. It is a national celebration in which the national and provincial
capitals turn on their Christmas lights on the same day. Being the most easterly
Province, we are usually the first to turn our Christmas lights on each year.
Mr. Speaker, this event was launched in 1986 by the National Capital
Commission and has been held in this Province since 1987. This year's display
includes approximately 51,000 lights, six billboards depicting Christmas scenes,
and thirteen trees with white lights symbolizing our thirteen provinces and
territories. The large main tree, which stands at twenty-five feet tall, came
from the Argentia area and will contain multi-coloured lights as a symbol of
diversity of our nation.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. HICKEY: The purpose of this ceremony is to instill a sense of pride
and unity among Canadians, and I urge residents in the area to come by the
Confederation Building and join us in this celebration.
Mr. Speaker, the ceremony kicks off with a selection of Christmas carols by
the St. Andrew's Elementary School Choir, followed by holiday music performed
by the Royal Newfoundland Regiment Band. It is my pleasure to throw the switch
this year in front of Confederation Building at approximately 6:45 p.m.
Our Master of Ceremonies this evening will be Ms Shelley Neville of Spirit of
Newfoundland, and refreshments will be available at the end of the event.
Once again, Mr. Speaker, I encourage everyone to join us at the Confederation
Building to celebrate the beginning of the holiday season.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.
MR. JOYCE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I thank the minister for an advance copy, and the spirit must be hitting me
because I am going to be kind today when it comes with this Ministerial
Statement.
It is a time for all of us to reflect and to be thankful for everything that
we have in the holiday season, and I encourage all members and all people in the
Province to remember the people who are less fortunate, and the groups helping
out with the food banks across the Province.
Also, Minister, in the statement it says, "The purpose of this ceremony
is to instill a sense of pride and unity...." Let none of us forget our
brave men and women who are serving overseas to make sure that we can celebrate
this type of event in our Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, and indeed all
across Canada, because these men and women are making the great sacrifice, but
also they are being away from their families during this Christmastime so we all
should remember them and reflect upon them.
Also, I say to all members and to the people of the Province, let's not
forget the people who are in our institutions, who cannot get out. If you have a
bit of spare time, go and visit them, because this is the time of Christmas and
they do remember Christmas - their Christmas. If we can share the joy, it is
much better to share it with someone who has the opportunity to share it with
someone outside who does not have family here.
So, Minister, enjoy it. To all members, enjoy the Christmas season. This is
what it is all about, to reflect on our family and our friends, and reflect on
everybody in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador and across Canada.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
Colleagues, the festive season has not quite arrived yet.
The Chair recognizes the Member for Labrador West.
MR. R. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I say to the minister that this afternoon will not be the first time that he
sets off a spark around this House.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. R. COLLINS: This is a very nice ceremony. It is very important, and
it is a fun time for all of the staff and their families to come this evening
and watch as the light-up takes place. It is a fun event.
I say to the minister, I would encourage them in future years to use
energy-efficient bulbs to set an example to the people of -
AN HON. MEMBER: Fibre optic.
MR. R. COLLINS: Well, I was going to get to that later. I hazard to use
the words, but I would encourage you next year to probably get a fibre optic
tree.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. R. COLLINS: Seriously, Mr. Speaker, this is a nice occasion and we
are sure that it will go according to plan and that people will enjoy the
ceremony this evening, as they have in years past.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?
Oral Questions.
Oral Questions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Yesterday, the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development stated
there was no need for financial information from the three companies involved in
the fibre optic deal because he said that EWA, Electronic Warfare Associates,
did not need that type of information from Rogers, Persona, and MTS Allstream to
determine the value of a piece of fibre optic cable.
I ask the minister: Do you feel it appropriate to give $15 million to private
sector companies without doing a financial analysis to determine whether or not
these companies involved could cover their commitments in the deal, or whether
or not they even needed the $15 million to continue ahead with this project?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural
Development.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, first of all, I did not say there was no requirement or no need
for financial information. What I said was that the financial analysis of the
fibre optic investment that was required could be gotten from the marketplace to
determine if we were getting a $52 million piece of infrastructure, if we were
going to have what we require in order to get our $15 million worth of value out
of it.
Furthermore, the fact of the matter is, two of these three companies are
publicly traded. They are also evaluated by the CRTC. If there was any problem
with the solvency of the companies, the CRTC would pick up on that. Furthermore,
I also said that Persona have indicated, have told us - and I have said this
publicly on many occasions, inside and outside this House - they have agreed to
provide us with the financial information, and they have agreed to post a
performance bond to cover the full cost of the project.
That is it, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The minister might not think it is necessary to know the financial shape of a
company that we are going to give $15 million to but I think the general public
deserve an answer to that, by the way.
Mr. Speaker, the people of the Province are investing 30 per cent of the
total cost of this project, yet we are getting no equity position. Instead,
these companies who are investing less are getting more of the potential
benefits. The Premier constantly calls for an equity position in our offshore
and the Lower Churchill, yet he is throwing $15 million at this project with no
equity stake.
I ask the minister, or the Premier: Why are these companies getting fibre
strands and profit when the people of the Province are only getting fibre
strands with no profits, even though the minister himself has admitted both
publicly and in this House that he cannot even tell us how many fibre strands we
are getting?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural
Development.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition does not understand the difference
between assets and equity, obviously. He does not understand the difference
between investments and equity and assets and all of that stuff.
The fact of the matter is, the Premier has called for an equity position in
our oil field development. Now, Mr. Speaker, if the oil companies want to give
us ownership of the structures, if they want to give us ownership of the oil
tankers, if they want to give us ownership of the refineries that they are going
to put this through, maybe we might reconsider. I do not know. It is not for me
to say. The fact of the matter is, our $15 million will buy us a specific number
of strands. When the legal documentation has been finalized it will be divulged
to everybody, and it will be divulged to the Auditor General as required by the
Auditor General. Furthermore, Mr. Speaker, these are private companies and there
are certain commercial pieces of information that cannot be released until all
the legal documentation has been concluded.
However, $15 million buys us a certain number of strands that EWA has told us
we have to have and we will have -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I say that I have been asking the financial guru over there for the past four
weeks questions on this and I have not been getting any answers. Let's try
again.
Mr. Speaker, in light of the fact that there are so many concerns that have
been raised about this issue, the fact that we do not know how many fibre
strands we are going to be getting, the fact that we do not know how much money
these individual companies are investing, the fact that we do not know why
government policy was not followed with respect to an RFP or a tender, the fact
that we do not know what was contained in the controversial report or assessment
done by the Department of Finance, I ask the minister or the Premier: Will you
give a commitment today that no money will be released or invested in this
project until the Auditor General completes his report and gives a determination
as to whether or not this project passed the smell test?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural
Development.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I can tell you one thing, the money is not even budgeted yet, so
it is at least April before we can even start to flow any funds. I am reasonably
confident, Mr. Speaker, that the Auditor General will have done his assessment
prior to that. There have been, I believe, discussions between the Leader of the
Opposition, the Leader of the NDP and our Government House Leader with the
Auditor General on this evaluation. We have identified funds, as per the request
of the Auditor General, to carry out the assessment that he is going to do.
Mr. Speaker, I can only say to the Leader of the Opposition this -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. TAYLOR: - on behalf of the school children of Newfoundland and
Labrador, because I understand he was a teacher before he got into politics,
thank you for leaving the classroom, because if he was half as bad as a teacher
as he is as a learner then God help the students that he had.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The Chair is asking for co-operation.
The Chair recognizes the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The Auditor General has committed to doing the review of the fibre optic
deal. He says he can, and will, have this review done by October or sooner.
I ask the minister, or the Premier: Why don't you commit right now, to the
public of this Province, not to spend any money on this project until he
finishes his report? What is the point of asking the Auditor General to do this
report if the money is going to be already spent?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural
Development.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I am just going to say this: No, I will not make that
commitment. The fact of the matter is, we have a budget process to go through.
This infrastructure has to be built, Mr. Speaker, based on the analysis that we
have done, and the people we have contracted to do it. I am absolutely
confident, as are all of my colleagues, the Cabinet, the caucus, we take
confidence in the advice of Memorial University, the College of the North
Atlantic, Newfoundland Association of Technology Industries, the Board of Trade,
St. John's City Council, the people who are involved with the
telecommunications industry, the people who are involved with the research
industry, that we have made an appropriate investment and when the Auditor
Genera l renders his report on it, we will be vindicated, Mr. Speaker. We will
be vindicated.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, if the people out there wonder why we are asking
questions day after day, it is because of the comments the minister makes. Just
then he said that no money would flow until April and then in the second
sentence he said people have already been contracted to do the work.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. REID: Now, I ask the minister to stand here today and give us the
commitment that the work will not proceed until after the Auditor General does
his report. Because, what is the point of asking the Auditor General to do the
review if the money is going to be already spent? Are you or the Premier going
to pay back the money if the Auditor General comes out and says it should not
have gone ahead?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural
Development.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition has to get his
facts straight. I did not say that contracts had been let. I did not say that we
have made any financial commitment. We are, under the Financial Administration
Act, not allowed to make a financial commitment until we have had Cabinet
approval and until the appropriate budgetary line items have been passed in this
House, Mr. Speaker.
Now, this infrastructure will start to be laid some time this summer, I would
expect - late summer or early fall, I am not sure of the exact time lines right
now - but the fact of the matter is, Mr. Speaker, we are going to proceed with
this project. We are going to allow the Auditor General to proceed with his
work, and at the end of the day I have absolutely no reason to believe that
there will be anything found untoward or wrong with this. The Auditor General
will prove everything that I have said in this House over the past three weeks
and will prove the Leader of the Opposition wrong once again.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.
MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, over the last month, the Premier's excessive and
lavish spending has been revealed. Now we learn to date that the government has
spent $1.2 million to launch this absurd new brand of a stylized pitcher plant.
I ask the Minister of Business: Was there a tender call for this contract or
was it sole-sourced?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Business.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. O'BRIEN: Mr. Speaker, the brand signature is a strategic long-term
investment in the future of this Province. That is exactly what it was. As a
matter of fact, we went through a process, Mr. Speaker, that revealed
forty-three different versions of our government logo out there.
I can see the shock on your face, Mr. Speaker, in regard to that, to be
honest with you, because I am sure you did not know that, being impartial to the
cause, but forty-three different ones.
Certainly, we did go through the proper process. There was a little over $1
million spent in regard to the production and the research that went into the
development of that brand, and then there was a further $40,000 that went into
the actual signage, and that was a part of the implementation of it. We did go
through the proper process, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.
MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, the minister just said they went through the
proper process, so I will ask again: Was there a tender called for this contract
or was it sole-sourced?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Business.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. O'BRIEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Yes, absolutely, a tender was called in regard to it, and it was awarded to
an agency of record who helped us all the way along in regard to doing that. We
followed the proper process in regard to choosing that. Several agencies of
record came forward on that process, and certainly the agency of record was
awarded and they did an absolutely fabulous job in regard to that. We will keep
implementing it right across government and government agencies, both nationally
and internationally as well.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.
MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister if he will undertake to table
immediately who tendered and if he would, in fact, make all that information
available to the House as soon as possible?
Mr. Speaker, $15 million for Persona, $200,000 for one night of entertainment
for visiting Premiers, and $1.2 million to be branded. For anyone who drives
past this building, they cannot help but see a sign made of two six by six
posts, two sheets of plywood, with a pitcher plant on it.
I ask the Minister of Business: Can you confirm that sign cost the taxpayers
of this Province more than $20,000?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Business.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, Mr. Speaker, there are two signs that are a part of
the implementation. Certainly, the government has looked at this in regard to
fiscal responsibility. The implementation of the new brand across government
departments will happen over a two-year period of time over all departments,
where we can absorb it as things and inventories run out. Certainly, we will
follow that process and follow it to the fullest.
There were two signs in question in regard to the implementation of it, and
the total cost was $40,000, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.
MS FOOTE: Forty thousand dollars for two signs at a time when we have
food banks stretched to the limit, with more people than ever using food banks
in this Province, and 9,000 people lining up looking for work in Alberta;
$65,000 for a glossy pamphlet about the pitcher plant that was delivered to
every household in this Province; another $285,000 was spent on the
advertisement that we see on TV, and that does not include the cost of producing
the ad; another $30,000 has been spent on people going to see a show in the
theatres in St. John's where the ad is playing. Ninety-five per cent of the
theatres are in St. John's. Half a million dollars has been spent on
advertising alone.
I ask the Minister of Business: Will there be more money spent on
advertising, and will he tell us just how much?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Business.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. O'BRIEN: Mr. Speaker, as I just said, the course of action now is
to implement the brand across government departments. That will be done over a
two-year period, and it will be absorbed by each department as we go, as their
inventories run out.
I will tell you something else, Mr. Speaker: We will get value for every
dollar, the $1 million-plus, in regard to what we have done in regard to the
brand. We found that there were forty-three different versions of that logo out
there, that was left from the previous government. When you have forty-three
versions of a logo out there, you have inconsistency and certainly you have
confusion in the way this Province is viewed by the world.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. O'BRIEN: I will tell you something else, what we did not do: We did
not spend $181,000 to Bristol on an ad campaign for a project that did not exist
in the Lower Churchill, Mr. Speaker. That is exactly what we did not do. We did
not flick that money out the window.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.
MS FOOTE: No, Mr. Speaker, you did not spend $183,000; you spent $1.2
million.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, we all know how this Premier likes to share
taxpayers' money with his buddies. We have a fibre optic cable here, a
construction contract there, and advertising contracts everywhere.
I ask the minister: Can he confirm that, while many serious problems go
unaddressed in this Province, even more money will be spent on the brand since
the $1.2 million does not even include changing the signs on government
vehicles, on government buildings, or even on licence plates? - and the list
goes on and on. What will that cost the taxpayers of this Province?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Business.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. O'BRIEN: Mr. Speaker, everything, to be honest with you, that this
government does is done in a fiscally responsible manner. We have done that
since 2003, once elected, as what was shown in the 2004 Budget, what was shown
in the 2005 Budget, and what was shown in the 2006 Budget.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. O'BRIEN: We do everything in a fiscally responsible manner. Over
two years the brand will be implemented across government departments as
inventories run out. That is fiscally responsible.
Listen to the Opposition here talking about the monies that are spent, just
like they never spent anything on anything themselves in regard to the Juno
Awards or in regard to the Millennium celebrations - $1.2 million. You know,
$1.2 million was invested in the Millennium celebrations and, absolutely, it was
probably a good investment. Who played at that? Great Big Sea, for a cost of
$165,000, but am I saying it is a bad investment? No, it is not; it is a good
investment, absolutely.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The Chair recognizes the Member for Grand Bank.
MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, the numbers still do not add up to $1.2 million
for a pitcher plant that nobody can tell what it is. Rather than a symbol of
pride as a people, this brand is yet another symbol of how government wastes
taxpayers' money.
Mr. Speaker, while we are being branded, we have serious needs in this
Province: food banks that are stretched to the limit; people who cannot get
drugs they desperately need; and people who are lining up, being forced to go to
work in Alberta.
I ask the minister: Can he confirm that he and the Premier wasted another
$40,000 in taxpayers' money at a party where they introduced the Brand to
invited guests?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Business.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. O'BRIEN: Mr. Speaker, no, I would never, ever say such a thing. As
a matter of fact, I view, and the business world views, the Brand as a very
strategic investment of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.
The hon. member must be detached from the total population of Newfoundland
because I have gone across this Province on, I do not know how many speaking
engagements, and I have been approached by the Chambers of Commerce, the Boards
of Trade, both here in St. John's, various other stakeholders, the public in
general, and each and everyone of them, to be honest with you, understands the
need of a Brand, understands that we have to be able to position this Province
in a strategic manner nationally, internationally and globally. That is what
this is all about. We will show at the end of the day that every dollar was of
value, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.
MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, I would ask the minister if he would undertake to
table the tendered documents in the next sitting of the House?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Business.
MR. O'BRIEN: The tender is public. I am sorry, Mr. Speaker. Public
tender is public. Certainly, everything is subject to an ATIP or whatever you
want. You got it, so just make that request.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I assume the Minister of Business just undertook to provide that
documentation.
Mr. Speaker, we were given a bunch of questions, or a bunch of information,
yesterday concerning the Bull Arm Site Corporation by the Minister of Natural
Resources. These are the documents that were tabled. My first question is
concerning the batch, I should say, rather than the couple of pages that I was
given. This bunch of documents I am holding here is, in fact, the tender
documents for the Bull Arm Site Corporation security building that was prepared
by Sheppards, Green and Acres Limited, an engineering consulting firm. Now this,
of course, went in the garbage once the first contract was cancelled.
I am wondering if the minister would undertake to tell us - and table here
the information before the House closes next week, and preferably Monday, if
possible - what it cost to have these documents prepared -
MR. REID: By the engineers.
MR. PARSONS: - by the engineers?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS DUNDERDALE: Yes, Mr. Speaker. I do not have any problem in providing
that information to the House.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. PARSONS: Thank you, I appreciate that.
Minister, we had an issue here of tendering versus request for proposals. We
know, of course, that the public tender was cancelled on the Bull Arm site and
we ended up with a request for proposals situation. It was my understanding that
in both the tendered situation and in request for proposals that when you submit
your bid, or your proposal, it gets stamped when it is received and submitted.
Now, I have the copies here that you provided yesterday from the three
persons who were asked to submit proposals - by the way, I confirmed with the
Works and Transportation officials and the Auditor General today that, that is
indeed a protocol and a requirement, that you time, date and stamp these
documents, but the ones I was provided with yesterday have no such stamp.
I am wondering if you could explain, or have Ms Cleary explain, why that was
not done in this case, or if it was as a result of the photocopying or so on,
that it is not on here? I would certainly appreciate it. This is, again, another
example where the documentation submitted does not comply with government
policy, and I would like to know why it did not comply.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I will endeavour to find the answers to those questions.
Mr. Speaker, I have been providing information in this House since last
Wednesday with regard to the security shed contract. I have maintained, and
still maintain, that everything was done within the Public Tender Act, although
there were two oversights, which we take very seriously. Because of the
uncovering of those two oversights, I instructed my staff to review all recent
contracts with the Bull Arm Corporation. As a result of that review, I have
found an instance of where work was let at the site and the proper process was
not followed, although, I have determined, to my satisfaction, that there was no
intentional wrongdoing or political interference. This government is committed
to transparency, accountability, openness, and we are fully committed to the
Public Tender Act. As a result of the concerns that have been raised on this
piece of work, I have asked for and received Ms Cleary's resignation.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. PARSONS: I had a further question, in fact, directed to the minister
in that regard, and my next question was going to be to the fact that Ms Cleary
was the former Chair of the Workers' Compensation, and my submission would
have been that as Chair she brought in this core certification piece and
enforced it as Chair of the Workers' Compensation. Certainly, any explanation
by her that she overlooked it in this case was not acceptable and was
incompetence, and I appreciate the minister taking action on this file in that
regard.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. R. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My question is for the Minister of Justice.
It has been a long concern in Labrador West, and Labrador in general,
particularly from the communities of Labrador City and Wabush, regarding the
Upper Churchill power contract and the benefits that are flowing to this
Province. A few months ago the minister committed to providing a legal opinion
as to
section 92(
a) of the constitutional amendment that was made in 1983 that
would allow for direct taxes to be placed upon export power.
I wonder if the minister could provide us with an update as to the status of
that opinion and whether or not there has been one sought and one determined?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. T. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
As the hon. member knows, the civil division of the Department of Justice is
a law firm for the government - lawyers for the government. Lawyers in the civil
division are engaged with all government departments in providing legal advice
from time to time, which the various heads of departments can use in conducting
their negotiations with people that they have to negotiate with.
We have a number of legal opinions on the issue of 92(a). Those opinions are
in the process of being reviewed by lawyers for the department. When we have the
results of that review, the information will be provided to the appropriate
minister to deal with as she deems appropriate.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. R. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My next question is for the Minister of Transportation and Works.
I say to the minister, that the cost of airline travel out of Labrador these
days is prohibiting many people from being able to fly. Last week, the Province
of Quebec released an announcement on Radio Canada stating that they have
introduced a subsidy program to residents of their province who live in northern
and isolated areas up to 30 per cent of the cost of travel. I also noticed, Mr.
Speaker, that a couple of weeks ago the minister released a press release on the
Labrador transportation plan consultation document.
I wonder if the minister can provide assurances to the people in Labrador
that the final product of this document, of this study for transportation in
Labrador, will contain a provision that will subsidize air travel for residents
who depend on it in order to travel?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works, and
Labrador Affairs.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HICKEY: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
I thank the Member for Labrador West for his question.
I say to the member, this is certainly something I am presently looking at,
what Quebec is doing, and reviewing their policies on how they do things over
there. I hope that after we review that, and as we move forward with the
transportation plan, that some of these issues will be addressed.
I want to say, Mr. Speaker, that, although the Member for Labrador West
raises the issue about high air fares in Labrador, there is nothing, really,
that the Department of Transportation and Works can do regarding the high air
fares, but one of the issues that we are dealing with, with my colleague, the
Minister of Health, is the bigger issue in Labrador, which is medical travel for
patients coming out of Labrador, and that is the priority for me as the Minister
of Transportation and Works.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I have a further supplementary for the Minister of Natural
Resources.
In this House yesterday, when I asked the minister - and it is quoted on page
2037 of yesterday's Hansard proceedings - when I was asking questions, the
comment of the minister was, "I say, Mr. Speaker, I am ultimately
responsible for what happens in this department, not Ms Cleary, and I am
satisfied in terms of my investigations into this matter that there has been no
impropriety. Ms Cleary removed herself once she realized that there would be the
appearance of a conflict in terms of awarding the second number of bids."
I ask the minister: If you are responsible for your department, and this
happened under your watch, why don't we have your resignation rather than the
resignation of Ms Cleary?
You took responsibility. Do the honourable thing.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The Chair recognizes the Minister of Natural Resources.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS DUNDERDALE: Mr. Speaker, we are soon going to have to call the space
between the government side of the House and the Opposition side of the House
the road to Damascus, because there is a conversion that has happened from the
journey from here to there.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS DUNDERDALE: It is too bad we didn't have some of that righteous
indignation on this side when the Public Tender Act was corrupted and eroded
every day. His inquiring mind wasn't at work on this side of the House.
The fact of the matter is, not adhering to the Public Tender Act is a legacy
of those people over there, and what they are proposing now is politics over
substance. I am responsible, and when I found that the Public Tender Act was not
being adhered to, I took responsible action.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.
MR. LANGDON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My questions are for the Minister of Environment.
Mr. Speaker, the environment has become one of the most important and
contentious issues in the country. We were well on our way to making the Dog
Hill a state-of-the-art site for the Avalon Region and possibly for Clarenville
and the Burin Peninsula. The government has decided to abandon the site and
continue to dump everything into Robin Hood Bay.
Why, Minister, are we not following the trend across the country and
establishing a modern regional waste management site with full sorting and
recycling at Dog Hill, rather than putting everything into garbage bags for
Robin Hood Bay?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Conservation.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. JACKMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Finally, a question. I thank the member for his question.
Presently, the engineering consultants' reports are being finished on the
Robin Hood Bay. That report will be finalized. They will be out very shortly,
and then a decision will be made after that consultation is finished.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune, time for a
very brief question.
MR. LANGDON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The management established by the regional board on the advice of affected
municipalities for regional management had agreed that no one municipality would
have a majority of voting rights.
I ask the minister why he has gone against the wishes of the City of Mount
Pearl, the Towns of Paradise, CBS, Holyrood, and other municipalities on the
Avalon as far away as Conception Bay North, and allowed the City of St. John's
to control the board?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Conservation.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. JACKMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
That is an issue that I am certain my colleague from Municipal Affairs
continues to work with. That is an issue that will be worked through, and a
resolution will be found and a suitable site for the dump will be found, and the
governance of that will be worked out over the coming months, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The time allocated for Question Period has expired.
Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees.
Tabling of Documents.
Tabling of Documents
MR. SPEAKER: In compliance with the Public Tender Act, I am pleased to
table the Report of Public Tender Act Exceptions for the months of May, June,
July, August, September and October, 2006.
Notices of Motion.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. SPEAKER: The Chair understands there is another document to be
tabled.
The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
MR. T. OSBORNE: I am sorry, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, in fulfilling government's commitment of being accountable to
the citizens of Newfoundland and Labrador, it is my pleasure to table the
2005-2006 Annual Report of the Newfoundland and Labrador Centre of Health
Information.
The current annual report provides an overview of key activities that
occurred during the fiscal year 2005-2006.
MR. SPEAKER: Further tabling of documents?
Notices of motion.
Notices of Motion
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.
MR. T. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I give notice that I will ask leave to introduce a bill entitled,
An Act
Respecting Safer Communities and Neighbourhoods. (Bill 70)
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Further notices of motion?
The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I move, as per Standing Order 11, that the House not adjourn at 5:30 o'clock
p.m. on Monday. Further, I move, as per Standing Order 11 - I give notice, I
should say - that the House not adjourn at 10:00 o'clock p.m.
I give notice on both of these, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Further notices of motion?
Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given.
Petitions.
Petitions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.
MR. JOYCE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise again today on behalf of the people out in Lark Harbour and along
Route 450 and Route 451 on the North and South Shore of the Bay of Islands,
requesting that there be something done with the roads. I always say the first
step to having something done with the roads is to meet with the person who is
going to make the decision.
I know all of the councils, and I know that it is the third minister now that
all the councils have written requesting a meeting to meet with the councils on
the North and South Shore. This is going on four years now and they still cannot
get a meeting. It is rather disturbing, when you have volunteers on the town
councils in a certain area trying to meet with the minister for safety and major
road concerns in the district and you cannot even get a meeting.
Mr. Speaker, the roads have deteriorated to the point where it is a health
and safety issue, not just some kind of luxury of having a bit of pavement on
the road. This year, just on the South Shore of the Bay of Islands, where the
people of Lark Harbour drive up towards Corner Brook, there were two big rocks
in the middle of the road and there were two accidents. The minister is well
aware of it because I wrote, myself, personally, and asked for compensation for
the people because the rocks were in the middle of the rock.
A lot of the reasons why rocks are there is because the gabion baskets that
were installed years back have been broken, and it is because of the cut in the
maintenance money from the Department of Transportation and Works, all across
the Province, and in the Bay of Islands itself, that these gabion baskets are
not working properly. Even on the back of the gabion baskets - and there is a
large stretch of gabion baskets on the South Shore of the Bay of Islands - the
rock builds up to the point that when anything else comes down over the hill it
would just roll over the top.
I have asked the minister - this is the third minister. I asked the Minister
of Fisheries, who was the minister. I asked the Minister of Innovation, Trade
and Rural Development, who was the minister. Now I ask the Minister of
Transportation and Works to at least go out and meet with the town councils and
not do what the minister did the last time when we had the major concern in
McIvers: Drive out on a Sunday morning, drop off at a local convenience store,
ask the clerk would she mind calling around to see if there was a councillor
around in the town who could show him where the problem was.
That shows a complete disservice to the volunteers who are working on the
councils on the Bay of Islands.
The people in Lark Harbour have written this petition. They are asking for
some assistance, I have been asking for some assistance, and here we see the
Minister of Justice and Attorney General getting $450,000 to open up some
sub-developments up on Massey Drive which has nothing to do with any road work
in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. Absolutely none! We see the mayor
out on Massey Drive saying it is going to open up sub-developments for us. That
is another good one for the Auditor General, I would assume.
Here are the people on the South Shore of the Bay of Island who cannot get
gabion baskets fixed. They cannot get any maintenance on the roads, whatsoever.
The signs themselves are to the point where they are deteriorating, to give what
road conditions are in place. We had to force to get the lines painted in the
Bay of Islands. Here we are, once again, going back to this government - we had
one minister saying there is too much money being spent in the district and the
Minister of Transportation and Works who was out now and said the Minister of
Fisheries is wrong, that there wasn't enough ever spent in the district.
Mr. Speaker, I call up the minister to heed this petition and offer some
assistance and provide safety for the people of the Bay of Islands.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Further petitions?
The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I appreciate an opportunity to have a few words again about the unacceptable
circumstances that exist on the South Coast of Newfoundland about the porta-potties.
The Minister of Transportation and Works, after me asking him here in this
House on behalf of the people of Burgeo and Ramea to put some toilet facilities
and waiting room facilities on the South Coast so that the users of the ferry
service might avail of them, did come part way. I must say, on the road to what
is reasonable, it is not very acceptable when you get two porta-potties propped
up on two pieces of two-by-four in Burgeo and the same thing in Ramea, no water
connected to them, no towels or anything inside, no heat in them. If you have to
use the washroom just hope that it does not happen when it is cold outside
because, basically, you are not getting to it.
I say to the minister: Thanks for what is there, but it is only a
half-hearted measure on your part. I hope you consider this to be an emergency
measure only and that before this year is out, not in 2007, not in 2008, but
before the year 2006 is out, that we make some effort to put an acceptable
facility in these two communities.
We have literally hundreds of users of the ferry service, and it is okay if
you know someone in Burgeo or Ramea, or you happen to be on the boat, but God
forbid if you get caught waiting for the boat, because there is nowhere for you
to go, and that is the point we have been making here.
I have had calls from Ramea, I have had calls from Burgeo, someone saying:
Well, Mr. Parsons, we hope you don't think that a couple of porta-potties is
all we want down here. I assure the people of Ramea and Burgeo that this is not
acceptable in the least. It is there as a short-term measure, until such time as
we get some acceptable health and safety, proper facilities, in those
communities so that the users of the ferry service and the tourists who come to
our areas - for example, the Minister of Tourism and Aquaculture, I am sure he
must be very pleased to know that people who visit our Province, and we are so
proud to have them because they put so much money here -
MR. HICKEY: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: A point of order has been raised by the hon. the Minister of
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the minister to wait until he is recognized.
The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works, and Labrador Affairs.
MR. HICKEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
For the last number of days I have heard the member opposite talk about the
porta-potties. Let me say this to the people of Burgeo, it was he who requested
the porta-potties on November 23. We delivered porta-potties. That is what the
man requested. That is what we delivered, Mr. Speaker!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: There is no point of order.
The Chair recognizes again the Opposition House Leader.
MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for your protection again from the
Minister of Transportation and Works. I do not need him up here ranting and
raving when I am in the middle of a petition. We would rather have his help and
his assistance in getting a facility.
Now, I hope that what the minister just said is not what we can expect. Is he
treating us and the people of the Southwest Coast as second-rate citizens?
Because if that is what the minister thinks, that we are going to accept porta-potties
when everybody else in this Province who has a ferry terminal, whether it is in
Port aux Basques, or whether it is in Lewisporte, or in Cartwright or anywhere
else, has suitable facilities, Fogo, for example, or anywhere else - all we are
asking for is a basic, human, decent need. Porta-potties are not acceptable as a
permanent long-term solution. We need something here that is a long-term
solution, I say to the minister. Do not try to get up and say: Oh, you only
asked for porta-potties, so that is all you are deserving of. It is irrelevant
what I ask for. It is what is needed is what counts here, and people need proper
facilities.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's allotted time has expired.
Further petitions.
Orders of the Day.
Orders of the Day
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I move Motion 2.
MR. SPEAKER: The motion is that as per Standing Order 11 that this House
not adjourn today, Thursday, December 7, at 5:30 of the clock.
All those in favour, aye'.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.
MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.
The motion is carried.
Motion, carried.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I move Motion 3.
MR. SPEAKER: The motion is that pursuant to Standing Order 11 that this
House not adjourn today, Thursday, December 7, at 10:00 p.m.
All those in favour, aye'.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.
MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.
The motion is carried.
Motion carried.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I move, with leave, first reading of Bill 70,
An Act Respecting Safer
Communities and Neighbourhoods.
I am asking leave to do first reading so we can get the bill out when it is
printed, whenever that may be.
MR. SPEAKER: Has leave been granted?
AN HON. MEMBER: Yes.
MR. SPEAKER: Leave is granted.
It is moved and seconded that the hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney
General shall have leave to introduce a bill entitled,
An Act Respecting Safer
Communities and Neighbourhoods. (Bill 70)
It is the pleasure of the House to adopt a motion that the hon. minister
shall have leave to introduce this bill?
All those in favour, aye'.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.
MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.
The motion is carried.
Motion, the hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General to introduce a
bill, "An Act Respecting Safer Communities and Neighbourhoods,"
carried. (Bill 70)
MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that Bill 70,
An Act Respecting
Safer Communities and Neighbourhoods, be now read a first time.
Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt a motion that Bill 70 be now read a
first time?
All those in favour, aye'.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.
MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.
The motion is carried.
CLERK: A bill,
An Act Respecting Safer Communities and Neighbourhoods.
(Bill 70)
MR. SPEAKER: Bill 70 has now been read a first time. When shall this bill
be read a second time?
MR. SULLIVAN: On tomorrow.
MR. SPEAKER: On tomorrow.
On motion, Bill 70 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I now call second reading of a bill,
An Act Respecting Mental Health Care And
Treatment. (Bill 61)
MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that Bill 61 be now read a second
time.
Motion, second reading of a bill, "An Act Respecting Mental Health Care
And Treatment." (Bill 61)
MR. SPEAKER: The chair recognizes the Minister of Health and Community
Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It is certainly a pleasure to be bringing second reading of this bill to the
House. It has received stakeholder support, Mr. Speaker. The bill has been
thirty-five years without any upgrading. It has been in place for thirty-five
years. The previous bill was, in fact, developed prior to the Charter of Rights
and Freedoms even being enacted. This is a very important piece of legislation.
It will provide better rights for individuals. It will revise the eligibility
criteria used to determine situations and individuals who would benefit under
the authority of the act, and it would expand the range of interventions and
services available.
Part of the reason, Mr. Speaker, this bill was brought about, beside the fact
that it was in desperate need of upgrading after thirty-five years, was as a
result of the report of the Luther inquiry into the deaths of Norman Reid and
Darryl Power. I think it is important to recognize that, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, as well, the new legislation will provide treatment and
protection for persons suffering from severe mental disorder who are at risk of
harming themselves or others, and it will protect the rights of individuals.
This bill will provide better rights of people who experience involuntary
detention and treatment. It will allow for individuals to have an expectation
from the health care system of what their rights are, of where they are being
detained, and why, access to telephone and visitors. It will also provide for
individuals to retain and instruct counsel, to have input into their own
treatment, Mr. Speaker, and to have access to his or her representative or
rights advisor.
Mr. Speaker, under the old act, individuals did not have the same rights that
they do under this act, and one of the improvements is that there will be two
separate assessments required, one of those by a psychiatrist to verify that an
individual meets the needs and criteria of involuntary admission.
As well, to ensure the protection of rights of individuals, Mr. Speaker,
there will be a review board, and a review of all involuntary hospital
admissions of individuals held for more than sixty days will be mandatory. On
top of that, an individual can seek a review at any time, even prior to the
sixty days. Any decisions can be appealed through the Newfoundland Supreme
Court.
Another aspect of the act, Mr. Speaker, is community treatment orders that
involve mandatory treatment and care in the community under the supervision of a
treating psychiatrist and other professionals. It will apply to a small number
of individuals, but it will allow people to live in the community with supports.
Again, Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased with the new act. I have spoken with
the Opposition critic for health, as well as the Leader of the NDP, just prior
to the House opening this afternoon. I will say that I do have
provincial-territorial-federal ministers' meetings in New Brunswick this
afternoon so I have asked both the Leader of the Opposition and the health
critic, the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair, if they were okay with the
bill. I think they both have some comments on the bill and will speak to second
reading this afternoon.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I want to have a few words with regard to Bill 61.
Mr. Speaker, this is a very important piece of legislation that has come
before the House of Assembly.
An Act Respecting Mental Health Care And Treatment
in Newfoundland and Labrador has not been, I do not think, as we would call it,
overhauled in almost thirty years, or more than thirty years, and there was
absolutely a need for this act to be rewritten and for it to reflect what the
need is today for mental health services throughout Newfoundland and Labrador.
Mr. Speaker, I have had an opportunity to read through this bill and also to
be briefed by the officials in the Department of Health on this particular bill
and it is absolutely no doubt, if there was one purpose served by the Reid-Power
inquiry, it was to ensure that there was legislation around mental health that
would be reflective of what is needed in today's society.
I think that the recommendation in the Reid-Power inquiry, Mr. Speaker, does
reflect and is reflected in a large portion of this bill.
I know that one of the more serious aspects that was recommended within the
Reid-Power inquiry that was done in 2003 was as it pertained to RCMP officers or
peace officers because, as you know, that was the issue here. One of the
recommendations that was in this Reid inquiry stressed very importantly that
peace officers should have appropriate training, not only in identifying
individuals with mental health needs but also in identifying the proper conduct
that they would need or how they would handle a patient of mental illness if
they were disorderly, and ensure that they got the appropriate medical attention
so that they would not be a danger to themselves or to anyone else.
Now I am not clear, and the minister can certainly explain to me, in the
legislation, if it speaks to the training of these particular peace officers. I
know that there are certain components of the bill in which training will be
required in order to carry out the new legislation that the government is going
to bring forward here, but I was not clear from the briefing session, and maybe
the minister can tell me, if, in fact, the RCMP officers will be trained in the
area of mental illness to the degree where they can identify and at least make
the call for the supports that they need in dealing with mental health patients.
I think that is a very important piece of all of this legislation.
Mr. Speaker, there are several parts of it that I would like to speak to in
particular. As you know, the individuals who fall under this particular act are
individuals out there in the Province who involuntary seek, or have someone on
their behalf seek mental health services for them. I do not have to tell anyone
in this House how mental health and mental illness can affect an individual, but
it is more than the effect that it has on that individual, in many cases. It is
also the effect that it has on family members, the stresses that they are under
and that they go through, especially family members who want to seek medical
services for a loved one who might be suffering from mental illness but the
patient protests and do not want that service. That becomes very stressful in
families and can certainly have a tremendous amount of affect upon the family,
upon friends and upon the individual. I think it is important to recognize that
mental illness does not just affect that individual, but it affects the family
around them, the friends around them, the communities that they live in and so
on. It is very important that even when there is a person who suffers from a
mental illness, who does not voluntarily seek the help that they need, that
someone would do so on their behalf. What this legislation does is it allows for
protection of the rights of the individual, as well as the protection of
society, ensuring that these individuals get the treatment that they want.
Mr. Speaker, I am going to speak to one particular case that I think a lot of
Members of the House of Assembly would be familiar with. You will probably
remember it, it was just a year ago in this Legislature that I raised an issue
with regard to a gentleman by the name of Wilfred Benson. Wilfred Benson was a
gentleman who lived in a tent in the woods off Ruth Avenue in Mount Pearl. He
was an individual who had been diagnosed as having a history of mental illness
and depression. His family, who lived in Alberta, were very concerned for his
health and welfare. At that time, I stood in the Legislature and asked the
minister to intervene, to ensure that Mr. Benson would have the proper mental
health treatment that he would require. At the time, the minister's hands were
tied. He could not involuntarily force this individual into a treatment facility
or to seek treatment of any kind. In fact, his response at the time was that
this is a matter of choice and lifestyle for that individual; which was really
hard, Mr. Speaker, to be able to accept as an answer, or to even want to accept
as being a course of action in a case like this, when you know, in the month of
December, that there is a mentally ill person living in a tent in the woods and
not getting the treatment that they require.
Under the new legislation an individual like Wilfred Benson would have gotten
some help,
whereas a year ago he could not have. The reason is because the new
legislation interprets the intervention process for mental health very
differently. A year ago they would have looked at an individual like Wilfred
Benson and said: Well, he is not an immediate threat to himself or to society
and we do not see that he is immediately, therefore, we would not be able to
take him in to give him any treatment, to hospitalize him, to have him see a
counsellor, or any of those things. He would have been left to his own devices.
Today, Mr. Speaker, those same workers could look at a gentleman like Mr.
Benson and say that because he is off his treatment and he is not getting the
medications that he needs, there is a possibility that he could act up, and
because of that acting up he could intentionally be a threat to himself or to
someone else. Therefore, under the law and under the new legislation, they would
be able to take this individual in for clinical services to ensure that they get
the treatment they need, and that they become stabilized on their medication,
and then, of course, to release them again into the community.
Madam Speaker, there are some significant changes here. I am going to talk
about a few more of them as I go on, because I think it is important for people
to understand how this new mental health act, in particular, works. First of
all, included here is what they call rights and rights advisors. What that means
is that -
Excuse me, Madam Speaker, I am having trouble hearing myself speak.
MADAM SPEAKER (Osborne): Order, please!
The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse Au Clair.
MS JONES: Thank you, Madam Speaker.
I was talking about the rights and rights advisors, which is a new addition
to the mental health services under this new legislation that the government is
bringing forward. Basically, what that means is if a person is involuntarily
admitted into a mental health facility for treatment, that they have the right
to an advisor. That was not included under the old mental health legislation.
What this advisor indeed would do is ensure that the patient know what their
rights are, as being a part of a clinical treatment. They would make sure that
they know that while they are being apprehended -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MADAM SPEAKER: Order, please!
There seems to be several private conversations going on here. There is far
too much noise in the House. The Chair cannot hear the speaker, and I think that
the speaker herself is being distracted by the noise. I ask you to please keep
order.
MS JONES: Thank you, Madam Speaker.
This is a very important piece of legislation and I am somewhat surprised
that hon. members are not certainly paying more attention to it, because it has
been more than thirty years since we have had the amendments we needed in the
Mental Health Act and unfortunately it had to come from some very tragic
incidents in our Province which came out of the Reid-Power inquiry that was done
in 2003.
Anyway, Madam Speaker, these individuals will now have an opportunity to know
what their rights are, and there will be advisors provided to them upon request
when they are involuntarily committed to a psychiatric institution. I think that
is very important because quite often these individuals, even when they are
involuntary, are left to their own devices. I think it is important that they
know what their actual rights are when they are being detained in a psychiatric
facility.
Madam Speaker, the question that I have around these rights advisors is -
they will be new positions that will be added by the government. What I would
like to know is what the qualifications of a rights advisor would be. When I was
in the formal briefing on this bill, I was not assured as to what the
qualifications would be for a rights advisor, but I think it is very important
that these individuals have a background or have the ability to be trained in
human rights issues, ethics and codes, because that will probably be the most
important and most fundamental component to their job in dealing with these
mental health patients.
It is okay for them to have clinical backgrounds or social work backgrounds,
but it is equally as important for them to have the kind of training and
experience that is needed in dealing with human rights issues.
Madam Speaker, that is one part of the bill and I certainly have no problems
with that piece of it, and having that done.
Now, there are also a couple of other sections here that I want to talk about
for a minute, and that is with regard to the treatment of these individuals.
Quite often individuals, even when they involuntarily seek mental health
services, when they are released back to the community there has to be a
follow-up piece. There has to be a way to bridge the gap between the institution
and between the community, and I think the legislation is getting at that
through the community treatment component of it; however, I do not think it goes
far enough or will be far-reaching enough to actually do the kind of things that
need to be done.
Let me just tell you a little bit about what community treatment will mean.
It is a gap between the institution, when a person goes in who is bipolar,
schizophrenic, in a deep depression, whatever the case may be, and they go in to
a psychiatric hospital and they are treated, usually within a two-week period -
and I think the statistics will show that most people, or the majority of them
who are hospitalized for psychiatric treatment, are released within a two-week
period. In fact, what they told me is that less than 10 per cent of those people
who are hospitalized for psychiatric treatment ever stay beyond two weeks. They
said about 10 per cent of them will stay for a period of up to eight weeks at a
time.
When they are released into the community there need to be some measures put
in place. In this particular legislation it is doing that, but it is doing it, I
believe, in a way that it can only be enforced in urban areas throughout the
Province. For example, if you were released under the community treatment
program you would have a mediator who you would deal with. You would have a case
management worker, who would either be a nurse or a social worker. You would
have things looked after, like your housing and those kinds of amenities that
you would need, which is all very important, I say, but I cannot see how this
could work in the rural areas, simply because the resources will not be there.
It does not mean I do not support it because of that, because I do support
it, and I think it is a very good concept and a great way to be able to allow
these people to make an integration from a psychiatric institution back into the
community, and it will work great in places like St. John's; however, it is
still going to be difficult to enforce in rural areas.
You have to remember, when you talk about the Norman Reid situation, that was
one of the key problems that was identified in that whole inquiry when it was
being done, and that was the fact that when Mr. Reid was released back to his
community from the psychiatric hospital, which happened on many, many occasions,
he did not always have the supports that were required or the mitigation process
that would go from coming out of a psychiatric hospital and going back to your
home community. Now, as you know, Norman Reid lived in a rural outport
community. He did not live in the St. John's area or in the Corner Brook area.
I want to read to you this letter that was actually in the Reid inquiry when
it was done. This is a letter that was submitted as one of the exhibits, and I
think it is important to read this because quite often when people are suffering
from mental illness and mental health issues and they come out of a psychiatric
hospital - they have been stabilized, they are under treatment, they go home and
everything is supposed to be great - well, quite often they have so many issues
to deal with in the home, and other things that they are forced to deal with,
that very soon you see them off their scheduled medications again, and all of a
sudden going into more problems than they had when they started, which is
unfortunate.
In the Reid-Power inquiry, this was a letter that was submitted by a
registered nurse who worked with Norman Reid. She said, in this letter - and
this was right after he was released from the Waterford Hospital. He was sent
home to his hometown community, a rural outport community, and these are the
concerns that she had, that she had written and asked the department of social
services, as an RN, to look at. She said: Norman's electricity was cut early
in 1996 because he owed in excess of $500 to Newfoundland Light and Power. This
certainly distracted from his already minimal quality of life. During the winter
months especially, his health and safety was at risk and continues to be. His
use of candles and lanterns are for light. He has an oil stove that rarely has
enough oil to last for a month during the colder months, and the condition of
the home itself is uninsulated. Presently, Norman's lack of intact footwear is
a concern, and his only source of diversion at home is a battery-operated radio.
As you probably know, Norman has no source of nurturing or encouragement, no job
or involvement that could boost his self-esteem and keep him occupied. He is
often shunned by his relatives and neighbours, and it is not a very positive
social situation.
Now Norman Reid, who was a mental health patient at the Waterford Hospital,
when he was released from hospital and sent home, this was the environment which
he went home to live in to deal with his mental illness. Madam Speaker, it is
very important to note that, because the reality is this, when you go home to a
house where you have no electricity, where you cannot afford to keep heat in it,
when you have no decent boots to wear on your feet and you have no social
environment around you, no friends, no relatives, or whatever the case may be,
and you have no support services, but you are a mental health patient, I do not
think that is the kind of environment that people should be placed into when
they are coming out of hospitals like this.
I am hoping that this legislation, through this new component that has been
added, which is the community treatment orders, I am hoping that under this
section and this new legislation that we can avoid situations like that of which
Norman Reid had to face. That is, under this community gap, bridging the gap
measure -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MADAM SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS JONES: - that social workers, mental health nurses, psychiatrists, and
all of those collectively working together, will look at the kind of environment
that this patient is being placed in. They will have case management workers who
will work with them on a daily, weekly basis to deal with the challenges that
they may have in their life. In addition to that, they will have a treatment
program which could be followed up on, on a regular basis. That sounds like the
perfect solution, and it is, if you live in St. John's or in Corner Brook. The
problem is that, because the resource is not available in rural communities, it
will be difficult for these programs to reach out into a lot of these rural
communities that need them.
Madam Speaker, that is a concern that I have around that component of the
bill. Again, it does not lessen, in any way, the impact of the bill. I am just
suggesting that the government needs to take into consideration how they can
extend that program and that service to as many people as possible in the
Province who need it, because I think it is very important. You do not need to
look far to find the information to back up the argument that I am making
because it was all done here by Judge Luther when he undertook the work of the
Reid-Power inquiry. He very explicitly detailed the information and the
recommendations that needed to be incorporated into a new mental health act for
the Province.
Now, Madam Speaker, I realize that in the last couple of years the government
has added new money for mental health services in the Province. In fact, if I
recollect appropriately, there were twelve new positions added for case
management workers, they call it now. We used to call them mental health nurses,
but it amounts to about the same thing. I also know that these case management
workers have been placed in a number of hospitals throughout the Province.
Actually, a couple of them in Labrador, one on the Northern Peninsula, I think
it was Gander, Grand Falls, Clarenville, Burin, in a lot of these places, and it
is important that this happened.
My fear, Madam Speaker, is this, the shortages of psychiatrists that we have
in those same facilities. I know right now in Labrador there is no psychiatrist
position. I know on the Northern Peninsula there is no psychiatrist position. I
know in the Eastern Health Board area there is a shortage of psychiatrists. I do
not know, maybe the minister can tell me, if on the West Coast of Newfoundland
maybe there is a shortage of psychiatrists as well. It is a profession that has
become increasingly hard to recruit people to, and especially in the rural or
more outlying hospitals in Newfoundland and Labrador. I know it is not a problem
that is relative just to our Province, but it has been somewhat of a national
problem.
My concern is this - and I think this was outlined as well by the
Schizophrenia Society and by the Newfoundland and Labrador Mental Health
Association going into this, and the documentation is probably in this
Reid-Power Inquiry as well. I think going into this, their concern was staffing,
the availability of human resources to do the job which needs to be done in
mental health services. That was one of the key things that they recommended and
that they were concerned about. I think we need to add more mental health
nurses, or case management workers - whatever you choose to call them these day
- into our health care system.
I will give you an example. In my district, which covers hundreds of
kilometres of geography to even isolated communities, we have one mental health
nurse. While you might look at it and say it is for a population of 4,000
people, which is the norm or something like that, the geography that this
individual has to cover makes it literally impossible to do their job. I have
talked to them on a number of occasions and I say to them, although there is one
position, simply because of the workload, the position changes a lot, people
move on. They do not want to be burdened down with that workload or that large
geography to service, so they move on to other positions. I have to say,
government really needs to look at where they can strategically place more
mental health nurses in regions like this.
The mental health nurse in Forteau has told me on occasion that his workload
is so busy that it is almost impossible for him to have an intake of more
clients; almost impossible. It is absolutely impossible for him to even consider
travelling up the coast to the other communities outside of the Labrador Straits
region and be able to do justice to the work that he needs to do there. It is
nearly impossible for him to be able to do that. I think that is understandable,
and that is not the only area of the Province. I just used that as an example.
There are many more areas. I am not going to discuss every one of them but they
are all very similar in terms of one mental health nurse serving a large
population of people and not being able to handle the number of cases and the
number of issues that are being brought forward to them in their professional
positions.
I think the government has to look at that, and more serious a problem is
what I have outlined with regard to psychiatry. You know, the mental health
nurse is a good frontline individual who deals with people who are going through
depression, or people who are going through other forms of mental illness,
whether it be schizophrenia , bipolarizaztion or something else. Madam Speaker,
you have to have psychiatrists. Right now, I know right across the Province
there is a shortage of psychiatrists. I know in the whole Labrador region and
all of the Northern Peninsula there is no psychiatrist, and the positions have
been vacant for a long time.
I have had constituents tell me that they have asked them to do psychiatry
counselling over the telephone. One lady who participated in that form of
counselling told me she did it because she had no other forum but she did not
find it as effective as being in an office or in a room with an actual
psychiatrist and getting the kind of treatment that she needed. That is
unfortunate. Today she has to travel from Labrador right down the Northern
Peninsula to Corner Brook to actually get an appointment to see a psychiatrist,
and only then if she is lucky enough to get an appointment in Corner Brook,
because even there they have become very overstressed, I guess, with the amount
of work on the West Coast of Newfoundland as well.
Madam Speaker, it is a serious problem. One in every five people in our
society suffer from mental illness in one form or another. Eighty-five per cent
of them voluntarily seek the help that they need, but there are 15 per cent of
the population who do not. In that 15 per cent of the population there are a
number of times - I think when we were briefed we were told there are 500 times
a year - that someone is hospitalized involuntarily for mental illness. That is
the seriousness and the magnitude of the numbers that you are actually dealing
with.
I know myself, first-hand, that depression seems to be more common today than
it used to be; but, you know, we live in a faster-paced society. We live in a
society that is highly dependent upon technology. We live in a society that is
overly competitive, and that often causes a tremendous amount of stress on
people, but we also, Madam Speaker, live in a changing society, as many would
have known it, in terms of out-migration, restructuring of the economy, and all
of these factors which all play a part when it comes to depression.
I know people in my district in particular, but also in other small
communities around the Province, but I am just going to talk about my district,
for instance, because I know of this one case in particular where this family,
who is at an aging level now, have hardly ever left the community. We grew up in
isolation. We did not have roads. We did not have a way out every day. They
raised their family in isolation. It is the lifestyle they knew. They hardly
left the community, only to go in the back country to hunt, to fish, or to do
something like that. Then, all of a sudden, you get the roads coming through.
Then you get the fishery which starts to decline, and industry starts to change.
Then you get your son, his wife and kids, who lived in the garden next to your
house for the last twenty years, who decide to pack up and move to Fort
McMurray. Believe me, it causes a tremendous amount of stress on these families.
I have seen how it can affect them, and how they have become depressed.
I have a friend of mine who, most of her daughters had moved away and lived
in various parts of the Island and she had two sons left at home. When the
fishery closed, one of her sons and his family, his wife and kids, packed up and
moved to Ontario. I saw her, for about three years, go through spurts of
depression, being overly stressed, because of that loss in their lives, because
of those changes in their lives. So, when you live in a society like we do
today, where it is very fast-paced, highly technological, very competitive, it
is only, I think, obvious that the level and the numbers of people who suffer
from depression would be even more evident to us than even in previous years.
I think the need is there more now than ever to have the kind of mental
health services in the Province to serve these people so that they have access
to the treatments that they want. Whether that treatment would be through a
mental health nurse, through a case management worker or through a psychiatrist,
they certainly need to have the kind of help out there in the community that
they require; because, you know, mental illness, unlike a lot of other
illnesses, is a treatable one. Treatable in the form that, if you take your
medication, if you follow the orders of the doctor, if you get proper
counselling, if you follow up, you can function in society as any other person
although you still suffer from a mental illness. I guess if there is a blessing
when it comes to mental illness, that would be it, the fact that it is treatable
and that it is not like some diseases which are critical and for which there are
no treatments that are guaranteed to work. So, from that regard, I guess, it is
good.
I have certainly dealt with a lot of people who suffer from mental illness,
and I know the strains and stresses that it puts on them in their lives and also
on their families. I know for many of them that I know, of course, they
voluntarily sought treatment when they have needed it, and they have needed it
on more than one occasion throughout their lives. In lots of cases there are
some I know who have had to take treatment throughout most of their adult life
but, you know, they have raised a family, they function, they have worked, and
they have had a quality of life to the largest extent because they were able to
get the services that they needed.
It is unfortunate that was not the case for people like Darryl Power and
people like Norman Reid, but what I will say is that, because at the time the
government chose to do a full inquiry and a full investigation into the
circumstances and the death surrounding those two individuals, hopefully someone
today and going forward will be served by the information and by the
recommendations.
That is why lots of times when people say, you know, we can't do an inquiry
around this or an investigation around that, there are a number of inquiries out
there that have been done in the past that have proven to be very effective
tools for creating legislation and for enacting legislation and programs in this
Province. The Power-Reid inquiry is one such document that has allowed
government and allowed the public to be able to strengthen the Mental Health Act
to the point where it will assure a little bit more guarantees and a little bit
more flexibility for the people who work in the mental health field. There is,
in this legislation, the ability and the opportunity for nursing practitioners,
for registered nurses, to expand upon their role and expand upon their education
and their training as it pertains to mental health services and dealing with
mental health patients in the Province.
There are some very positive pieces to this legislation. I have questions, as
I have already outlined, around the training of the rights officers, around the
training that would be provided to the RCMP officers, which I think is very
critical when you look at the Reid-Power inquiry, especially critical to look at
the components of training around the RCMP and the RNC officers.
While I have questions about that, and I also have questions about the
community treatment component of the program and how it is going to reach into
the more rural areas of the Province - all very legitimate concerns, and all
concerns that I am sure the minister will address at a time when it is
convenient for him - having said that, there are components of this legislation
that I am very supportive of and that I like very much.
What I like most of all about it is that they have been able to take the
recommendations of the Reid-Power inquiry and be able to implement it into law,
in most cases, so that we have the ability to deal with mental illness of people
who are involuntarily looking for the services themselves. We will have the
ability to be able to have more flexibility in dealing with those patients so
that we do not have cases like we had with Wilfred Benson last year, the
gentleman who was living in a tent outside of Ruth Avenue in Mount Pearl, that
we would actually have the ability, under the new legislation, to be able to get
Mr. Benson the treatment that he needs. We would have the ability to detain him,
based upon the assessment of workers, and ensure that he gets that kind of
treatment;
whereas a year ago, the legislation did not allow us to be able to do
those kinds of things.
The other thing, Madam Speaker, I like about it, as I said earlier, is the
fact that in a case like Norman Reid, when he was released from a psychiatric
hospital and send to a rural community or any community, that his living
conditions were not taken into consideration. The circumstances surrounding the
environment that he was being placed in after coming out of a psychiatric
hospital did not enter into the treatment phase of his mental illness. Under the
new legislation, consideration will be given for that. There will be some
consideration for that. It is up to us to ensure that the legislation works to
the benefit of these people. It is one thing to have it on paper, it is another
thing to have it in practice. It is up to us and the mental health society, and
the families and the victims and everyone else, to ensure that the laws which
are enacted are enforced and are done so to support the individuals who are
involved. In order to support these individuals and in order for this
legislation to work, there have to be the resources out there in the communities
to make it happen. To date, we fell short of that particular piece of it.
Not only the resources in terms of human resources, in terms of having more
mental health nurses and more psychiatrists and those kinds of things, but we
also need to have the proper medications and the proper treatments available.
One of the things that the Schizophrenia Society continues to raise with myself
- and I am sure with other members of the Legislature, because they are a very
active lobby organization for their patients - is the fact that there are
schizophrenia drugs today on the market that are not available in Newfoundland
and Labrador that they feel could help patients who suffer from schizophrenia.
Madam Speaker, we have a good piece of legislation here in the Mental Health
Act. In order for it to come into play we need to make sure the resources are
there, but also the treatments are there. Not only am I going to ask the
government and encourage the government today in passing this piece of
legislation to look at adding more support workers to the system in terms of
mental health nurses and recruiting more psychiatrists, but I also want to ask
the government to seriously look at the drug treatments that are being provided
to the patients who suffer from schizophrenia. The one medication that the
Schizophrenia Society is asking to be added to the formula is being provided in
almost every other province across Canada, and they want to have that medication
provided to patients in Newfoundland and Labrador.
I do not know what the cost will be of adding that drug to the formula. I do
not know. I have been away from that part of government for some time and I know
that drug costs inflate on a regular basis these days in society. I do not know
what the cost would be to the government but I want to encourage you, in your
budget deliberations, to look at that, because it would be an awful shame to
have a bill, like Bill 61, passed in this Legislature and out there in the
Province without the proper tools to be able to implement it appropriately. That
would be really unfortunate.
While I think the government did a good job on developing the legislation
that is in this bill, I want you to continue with that piece of work, don't
drop the ball on it now, continue with that piece of work and put more mental
health nurses in our communities. Make sure that the rights advisors you hire
are trained with human rights ethics, make sure that the medical treatments that
are needed for these patients are available to them. I would say then, and only
then, would the job of the government, in terms of this piece of legislation,
have been fulfilled because there are many other components that have to be
looked at.
Madam Speaker, I am going to conclude my remarks on Bill 61. I am sure there
are other people who are eager to speak on this legislation.
Thank you.
MADAM SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.
I am very pleased to speak to Bill 61. This bill has been a long time coming,
as we all know. It has been thirty-five years since our past bill on mental
health was put in place. I have to say that it feels very good to read this bill
and to recognize that we are coming into the twenty-first Century in the
Province with regard to our understanding of the needs of people with mental
diseases. I am very happy to see the bill brought before us. Obviously, we will
be supporting the bill.
There are a few things that I would like to comment on before I comment
specifically on the bill. I am very pleased with the consultation process that
took place in putting this bill together. I do want to commend the Minister of
Health and Community Services for the work that his department has done. I have
spoken with some of the stakeholders who took
part in the process and they are
quite pleased with the way in which they have been involved with regard to the
drafting of the bill, even seeing the draft that came before the House, to have
input into that as well. So, I think that the more of that that can happen in
our Province, the more that we can involve stakeholders right from the very
beginning when we are discussing an issue, the better it is, the better it is
for the people of the Province and the better it is for us in the House. Because
we know that what is coming before us is something that has been thought out
very, very carefully by the department that is presenting it; thought out
carefully because the department has listened to the people, and I think that is
one of the things we all need to learn from.
I also want to recognize the fact that the Minister of Health and Community
Services has been listening in the House this past week, and last week, and
voluntarily notified both the Official Opposition and myself of a briefing with
officials from the Department of Health with regard to the act. Having that
briefing with the officials from the department was extremely important. It is
good that we can ask questions of clarification and get a better understanding
of the bill before it comes to the floor. Having the briefing with the officials
allowed that to happen.
I hope that other ministers will pay attention to what the Minister of Health
has done and that we see this happening more frequently. I am not talking about
small amendments, but when we have - sometimes there are significant amendments
and sometimes bills dealing with something brand new. In either of those cases,
I think that briefings by department officials are very, very helpful. As I
said, I hope that it will become more of a practice in the House.
The other thing that I am very pleased about is the fact that the department
and the minister took into consideration, with such seriousness, the
recommendations of the Luther Report. We were told this morning in the briefing
that seven of the eight recommendations from the Luther Report have been
incorporated into the bill. I think that really shows the importance of holding
inquiries.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MADAM SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS MICHAEL: Sometimes we have had experiences where, in the history of
our governments in Newfoundland and Labrador, inquires happen but we do not see
the practical benefits of them. To know that this inquiry is now showing up in
this bill, says to me, inquires can work and this is the way that they should
work. If we put money into having somebody of the quality of Judge Luther do
this work, then we should recognize that work as well, especially because the
inquiry is also gathering the voice of the people in the Province, which is so
important.
I have to say that, when we were told what the one recommendation was that
did not go in, I understood and was satisfied with the reasoning behind the
department for not including that recommendation. I suspect the stakeholders
must have been as well, because I have not heard any outcry about the fact that
one recommendation did not make it, so I am pleased about that also.
While I think the bill is a very good document, like my colleague for
Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair, obviously there are some things that I want to
speak to in order to show where I think we have to be careful about where this
bill is going to go, and also one area where I would like to make a
recommendation for an amendment that I will bring forward at the Committee of
the Whole, and I have spoken to the minister about that. We are working on
wording that we will bring forward when we sit in Committee of the Whole, in
discussion of this bill, which I think will not be today. Well , I know it will
not be today. Today we just do the second reading.
In general, the bill is very, very good. The area that I most want to speak
to is the Community Treatment Orders section,
Part IV of the bill. I totally
support people living in community, no matter what their disease is, no matter
what their disability is, no matter what their condition is, when we can support
people in community. I obviously think that as well for people who are suffering
from mental disorders and who do not necessarily need to be in institutions. The
more we can have people in the community, the better.
We have an experience, not only in Newfoundland and Labrador but an
experience in our country of Canada, when, back in the 1970s, we went through a
very serious deinstitutionalization phase with regard to institutionalizing
people who have mental disorders. There were people by the hundreds upon
hundreds, and I would not even be surprised if it were by the thousands, when
you look at the whole country, who were removed from institutions, having been
in them for years, and put out into the community. We know, from that
experience, that happened without sufficient supports being put in place in the
community for those people.
I think it is an accepted fact that many people who are homeless in our
country today - and that goes for us here in Newfoundland and Labrador as well -
that their homelessness, their being on the street, their being people without
supports, goes back to the fact that they were people who came out of
institutions without adequate supports in the community.
That is the big thing that concerns me, probably the biggest thing that
concerns me, about the bill, not that we have the community treatment orders
there - I am delighted with the
section about the community treatment orders -
but I am concerned that we are able to make this work. I am concerned that we
are able to be assured that the supports and services that are going to be
needed for people living in the communities are there.
In the bill it says that somebody may receive a community treatment order if
certain criteria are met, and one of the criteria that is mentioned - the most
important one, or one of the really important ones - is that the services that
the person requires in order to reside in the community so that he or she will
not be likely to cause harm to himself or herself, or to others, or to suffer
substantial mental or physical deterioration or serious physical impairment are
in place, that the services to make sure that the individual is safe, that the
community is safe, that their family is safe, and I would like to think that, as
it says, not only safe but will not suffer deterioration either mentally or
physically, that these services to allow all of that will be in place in the
community.
I share the concern of the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair with
regard to how we are going to be able to assure that those services are in place
everywhere in the Province. I would hate to think that a person who might be
hospitalized here in St. John's, but who is not from St. John's, would not
receive a CTO, as they are called, community treatment orders, because the
person wants to go back to their community and the community does not have the
services that the person needs, so that the person would have to be refused a
CTO by a psychiatrist because the services are not in the person's community.
That would be awful.
We could say, well, it is all right, the person could stay in St. John's
and maybe the services would be there, but the thing is, one of the most
important things that a person needs, who has not only a mental disorder but
even a physical disorder, if we are trying to heal ourselves, one of the most
important supports is the support of people who are a part of our lives: the
support of loved ones, the support of family.
So, it is a problem - I am not blaming it on anybody - it is a major problem
that we have, that we can have somebody from a very isolated area who would like
to go home but the psychiatrist might fear, well, if the person goes to that
community, we just cannot assure that all the services are going to be in place
for that person.
It is a bit of a conundrum, but it is something that I put out as something
for the Department of Health to think about, and for all of us to think about:
How do we put this in place? This is an ideal; the bill states what we hope will
be in place.
I think that we also have to look at how we make sure it gets put in place in
a way that is equitable, that everybody in the Province can look to it and say:
I can be protected by this bill, and I can be protected to the fullest by this
bill.
That is probably one of the biggest blocks to this bill being put in place to
the degree that we would like to see it put in place.
The other thing that concerns me is that, when we talk about services, and
the services that are needed, the bill does not say what those services are. It
leaves it open. It just says the services that will be required for safety and
to keep deterioration of a person's physical or mental health from happening,
but it does not say what those services are. I think it is important, and I have
spoken to the minister about this, I think it is important that in some way in
the bill that we put in a definition of those services. As I said, we are
working on wording that we will bring forward in Committee of the Whole, but I
think it is absolutely essential that we do so; because, if we are going to have
the person protected, we need to at least be able to assure the person that we
understand that good housing is a service that will be required, we understand
that home support may be a service that is required, we understand that
disability welfare may be a service that is required, that having a case manager
accessible is a service that is required, by being able to access the rights
advisor, who is referred to in the bill, is a service that would be required.
Putting the understanding of those services into the bill is essential in order
for the bill to assure people that, yes, they will be safe if they are put out
there. They have to know that they are going to be safe if they are put out
there.
When we met with the officials from the Department of Health, they talked
about the fact that the rights advisors would not be all over the place, there
might be only two or three of them, m