March 5, 1996 Alberta Hansard 403 Legislative Assembly of Alberta Title: Tuesday, March 5, 1996 10:29 p.m. Date: 96/03/05 head: Committee of Supply [Mr. Tannas in the Chair] head: Main Estimates 1996-97 THE CHAIRMAN: I call the committee to order. The hon. Member for Three Hills-Airdrie. MS HALEY: Y es, Mr. Chairman. Subcommittee B of the Committee of Supply has had under consideration certain resolu- tions of estimates of Justice and Attorney General, reports progress thereon, and requests leave to sit again. THE CHAIRMAN: Does the committee concur in this report? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

THE CHAIRMAN: Opposed? SOME HON. MEMBERS: No. THE CHAIRMAN: Carried. The hon. Member for Dunvegan. MR. CLEGG: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Subcommittee A of the Committee of Supply has had under consideration certain resolutions of the Department of Advanced Education and Career Development, reports progress thereon, and requests leave to sit again. THE CHAIRMAN: Does the committee concur in this report? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. THE CHAIRMAN: Opposed? SOME HON. MEMBERS: No. THE CHAIRMAN: Carried. MR. DA Y: Mr. Chairman, two motions quickly.

Having discussed with the designated Opposition House Leader, I would request the Assembly unanimously agree, should there be a ringing of the division bells, that the time in between the two ding-a-lings would be two minutes. THE CHAIRMAN: Are we talking about committee divisions? Ye s. The hon. Government House Leader has moved that we have a two-minute bell for divisions, if we have any this evening. Since this is a waiver of the regular rules, it will require unani- mous consent, so we'd consider that. All those in favour of this motion, please say aye. HON. MEMBERS: Aye. THE CHAIRMAN: Opposed?

Unanimous consent for two-minute bells. MR. DA Y: Mr. Chairman, also last night there was agreement between House leaders regarding changes of personnel on certain committees, and we only did the one being proposed by the Liberals. I would therefore propose the following:

be it resolved that Mr. Beniuk be appointed to the designated subcommittee dealing with the estimates of the Department of Education, to replace Mr. Woloshyn. THE CHAIRMAN: All those in favour of that motion, please say aye. HON. MEMBERS: Aye. THE CHAIRMAN: Opposed, please say no. Carried. That motion was carried, hon. Government House Leader. Do we have another motion like that? MR. DA Y: Another motion like the last one? THE CHAIRMAN: Well, making changes. MR. DA Y: No. THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Hon. Government House Leader, would you have us rise. MR. DA Y: Thank you. Mr.

Chairman, I move the committee rise and report. [Motion carried] [The Deputy Speaker in the Chair] THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: I call the Assembly to order. The hon. Member for Dunvegan. MR. CLEGG: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Committee of Supply has had under consideration certain resolutions of the Department of Advanced Education and Career Development and the Department of Justice and Attorney General, reports progress thereon, and requests leave to sit again. I wish to table copies of a resolution agreed to in Committee of Supply on this day for the official records of the Assembly.

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Does the Assembly concur in this report? HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Opposed. So ordered. head: Government Bills and Orders head: Committee of the Whole [Mr. Tannas in the Chair] THE CHAIRMAN: I call the committee to order. Bill 10 Appropriation (Supplementary Supply) Act, 1996 THE CHAIRMAN: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Whitemud.

404 Alberta Hansard March 5, 1996 DR. PERCY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I rise to speak in committee to the supplementary estimates and in particular to the supplementary estimates of the Department of Environmental Protection. The expenditure of $3.21 1 million we find offensive on this side of the House. After a half-billion dollars, Mr. Chairman, being spent on Swan Hills . . . MRS. SOETAERT: How much? How much? DR. PERCY: A half-billion dollars, with mistake after mistake in terms of the process of administration of the plant, in terms of the incentives that have been set in.

This is the final indignity after a cut of a thousand deaths or a half-billion. It's expensive. We view this as vexatious. We would certainly like to see the sum eliminated, save for $1, from the supplementary estimates. To that end, we have an amendment that I would like to speak to. The amendment has been signed by counsel and is presently being distributed. Mr. Chairman, what's the point of this exercise? A half-billion taxpayer dollars, yet the government has no shame in this. They come back for yet another $3.2 million.

We, in fact, pay for the delay in terms of putting in an agreement that caps the hemorrhag- ing under the joint venture agreement. We were not able to do anything in this Legislature about the joint venture agreement. That was signed. We had to live with the consequences. It was not reviewed by the environment minister, now Premier. It was signed, in fact, by the environment minister, now Premier. Every opportunity that could have been employed to assess the con- straints imposed by the joint venture agreement was missed.

The opportunities to abrogate the agreement were foregone, and the Auditor General was very clear in his criticisms of the role the government played in that agreement. So on principle we view these funds as not being appropriate. The amendment, Mr. Chairman, calls for the striking out of that sum of $3.2 million and substituting the sum of $1, which we think is more than sufficient, given the half-billion that will have gone down the tubes, or up in smoke in this particular endeavour. THE CHAIRMAN: The Chair would observe that the requisite signatures are affixed and would call upon the hon.

Member for Fort McMurray on the amendment. MR. GERMAIN: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. It is hard for me to do justice to this particular amendment after the excellence of the presentation from the hon. Member for Edmonton-Whitemud. It's trite to point out that when we are in the last month of the budget year, there is a heavy onus on ministers who present expenditure items in their portfolio that ask the taxpayers of this province to dig even deeper into their pockets.

When you measure this particular expenditure, the Bovar fiasco, where Albertans have allowed their pockets to be picked time and time again – and this Legislative Assembly has now voted three times on expenditures to bail out this particular aspect – it seems to me that what we are doing is simply opening our pockets wide to be picked. The way you stop and discourage a pickpocket, ladies and gentlemen, is you close your pockets. That's what you do. Tonight I urge all members to have the courage, to have the courage, to close your pockets. THE CHAIRMAN: Are you ready for the question?

We have an amendment known as A1 proposed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Whitemud. All those in support of the amendment, please say aye. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye. THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed, please say no. SOME HON. MEMBERS: No. THE CHAIRMAN: Defeated. Call in the members. Two minutes. [Several members rose calling for a division.

The division bell was rung at 10:39 p.m.] [Two minutes having elapsed, the Assembly divided] For the motion: Carlson Henry Sapers Chadi Hewes Sekulic Dickson Massey Soetaert Germain Nicol V an Binsbergen Hanson Percy Wickman Against the motion: Ady Herard Oberg Amery Hierath Pham Brassard Hlady Renner Burgener Jacques Rostad Cardinal Kowalski Severtson Clegg Laing Shariff Coutts Langevin Stelmach Day Magnus Taylor, L. Dinning Mar Thurber Doerksen McClellan Woloshyn Evans McFarland Y ankowsky Havelock Totals: For - 15 Against - 34 [Motion on amendment lost] [The clauses of Bill 10 agreed to] [Title and

preamble agreed to] THE CHAIRMAN: Shall the Bill be reported? Are you agreed? HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. THE CHAIRMAN: Opposed? Carried. MR. DA Y: Mr. Chairman, I move the committee rise and report. [Motion carried] [Mr. Clegg in the Chair] MR. TANNAS: Mr. Speaker, the Committee of the Whole has had under consideration a certain Bill. The committee reports the following: Bill 10. I wish to table copies of all amendments considered by the Committee of the Whole on this date for the official records of the Assembly. THE ACTING SPEAKER: Thank you, hon. member. All in favour of the report?

March 5, 1996 Alberta Hansard 405 HON. MEMBERS: Aye. THE ACTING SPEAKER: Opposed, if any? Carried. [At 10:46 p.m. the Assembly adjourned to Wednesday at 1:30 p.m.]

406 Alberta Hansard March 5, 1996