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November 16, 2017

41st Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2017-Nov-16 (PDF)

L118 - Thu 16 Nov 2017 / Jeu 16 nov 2017

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Thursday 16 November 2017 Jeudi 16 novembre 2017

Member for Haliburton–Kawartha Lakes–Brock

Orders of the Day

Safer Ontario Act, 2017 / Loi de 2017 pour plus de sécurité en Ontario

Introduction of Visitors

Oral Questions

Minimum wage

Home care

Hospital funding

Hospital funding

Property taxation

Health care

Nurse practitioners

Sexual assault training

Labour dispute

Indigenous economic development

Hospital funding

Labour dispute

Research and innovation

Infrastructure Ontario

Visitors

Notice of reasoned amendment

Deferred Votes

Time allocation

Members’ Statements

Volunteers

Windsor mental health services

Meadowvale GO station

Treaties Recognition Week

Home care

Semaine de reconnaissance des traités / Treaties Recognition Week

Ontario Junior Citizen Awards

Energy policies

Kurtis MacDermid

Visitors

Reports by Committees

Standing Committee on Estimates

Petitions

Hospital funding

Dental care

Public transit

Long-term care

Long-term care

Public transit

Addiction services

Winter highway maintenance

Wasaga Beach

Anti-smoking initiatives for youth

Sewage treatment

Long-term care

Organic products

Private Members’ Public Business

Long-term care

Mandatory Sexual Assault Law Training for Judicial Officers Act, 2017 / Loi de 2017 sur la formation obligatoire des fonctionnaires judiciaires en droit relatif aux agressions sexuelles

Hospital services

Long-term care

Mandatory Sexual Assault Law Training for Judicial Officers Act, 2017 / Loi de 2017 sur la formation obligatoire des fonctionnaires judiciaires en droit relatif aux agressions sexuelles

Hospital services

Tobias Enverga Jr.

Orders of the Day

Cannabis, Smoke-Free Ontario and Road Safety Statute Law Amendment Act, 2017 / Loi de 2017 modifiant des lois en ce qui concerne le cannabis, l’Ontario sans fumée et la sécurité routière

The House met at 0900.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Good morning. Please join me in prayer.

Prayers.

Member for Haliburton–Kawartha Lakes–Brock

Hon. Michael Chan: Point of order.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Point of order.

Hon. Michael Chan: I seek unanimous consent that the member for Haliburton–Kawartha Lakes–Brock be allowed to speak from her place while seated.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The minister is seeking unanimous consent that the member from Haliburton–Kawartha Lakes–Brock be allowed to speak from her place while seated. Do we agree? Agreed.

Orders of the Day

Safer Ontario Act, 2017 / Loi de 2017 pour plus de sécurité en Ontario

Resuming the debate adjourned on November 15, 2017, on the motion for second reading of the following bill:

Bill 175,

An Act to implement measures with respect to policing, coroners and forensic laboratories and to enact, amend or repeal certain other statutes and revoke a regulation / Projet de loi 175, Loi mettant en oeuvre des mesures concernant les services policiers, les coroners et les laboratoires médico-légaux et édictant, modifiant ou abrogeant certaines autres lois et abrogeant un règlement.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Further debate? The member from Haliburton–Kawartha Lakes–Brock, please be seated.

Ms. Laurie Scott: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was going to try to start to stand for a bit, but I may sit down if I need to, and which I probably will need to. Is that okay?

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Absolutely fair.

Ms. Laurie Scott: As a person who talks with their hands a lot, it’s really hard when I’m sitting down.

Mr. Speaker, I do appreciate the opportunity to rise today—at times; maybe to sit at times, too—to address the government’s Bill 175,

An Act to implement measures with respect to policing, coroners and forensic laboratories. I want to note that it is, I believe, 417 pages. It’s a very, very large bill.

Yesterday we heard from the Minister of Community Safety as well as the Attorney General, in their leadoff, speak about the rationale for this legislation. We heard about how this bill supposedly modernizes policing to be able to deal with the challenges of the modern age, how it represents the biggest reform in policing in 20 years and how this legislation was five years in the making.

I just want to put out the point that it has been 20 years since it has been updated; this government has been in for 14 of those years. I just think that maybe, as we’re six months out from an election, with a 417-page bill, it would have been a little nicer to have it come earlier, as was promised many times. I think it was going to be before we rose in the spring session, then it was going to be when we first came back, and now we are just four weeks, really, out from rising for the winter.

Having said all that, I am disappointed with the results that we have before us today. Now, there are some good things in this bill. What struck me the most is the tone it sets, though. In particular, what stood out for me is that the government seems to be telling our hard-working front-line police officers that they simply don’t trust them. They don’t trust them to do the jobs that they were trained for and that they put their lives on the line for.

I have to say, it was quite something to watch both the ministers, in the presence of all the representatives of the Police Association of Ontario—who had their lobby day yesterday here—tell them with a straight face how much they appreciated their work, because I’m sure that the ministers and the government on the other side know they’re not really that happy, they’re not really that pleased with this bill. I’m sure that the ministers were personally sincere, but the real proof is in the policy, and the content of much of this government’s legislation sends the exact opposite signal.

It was disappointing to see how much of Bill 175 is designed to constrain and burden our police officers with additional process while at the same time reducing the scope of their activities and inviting outside organizations, including private security firms, to erode their traditional role.

In the words of the Police Association of Ontario, which is the official voice and representative body for Ontario’s front-line police personnel and provides representation, resource and support for 53 police associations and 18,000 police and civilian members of police services, “Unfortunately, contained in this legislation are some elements that will severely undermine the efficient and effective provision of policing around the province.”

What does that tell us, Madam Speaker? This tells us that despite the government’s claims to the contrary, it is absolutely clear that they did not properly consult the people affected by these changes the most: our front-line officers. I heard that from the Ontario Provincial Police Association as well as the PAO. When this bill was introduced, in the first hour after the press conference occurred, they had their own press conference and expressed extreme concerns about this bill.

For our part, we know from our discussions with the police association and the OPPA—the Ontario Provincial Police Association—and the Toronto Police Association that they have been warning the government for months about how the proposed changes would affect their members. But we see in the content of this bill that their concerns fell on deaf ears on that side of the House. They’re quite insulted.

Real consultation is not telling stakeholders that changes to legislation will be introduced, asking them to submit their comments and then ignoring them. That’s exactly what the Ontario Provincial Police Association, the Police Association of Ontario and the Toronto Police Association feel. Consultation means genuinely engaging with those stakeholders in a dialogue, hearing them out and trying to accommodate their concerns in the best way possible. It’s especially important when those changes significantly affect an indispensable part of our society, namely our law enforcement community.

These are the people who keep our province secure, keep our citizens safe and put their lives on the line.

We cannot forget the importance of the police. My colleagues in the official opposition and I believe that most police officers take their oath of service very seriously and that you’re never unsafe with police. That’s what we want and what we want society to think. We hope that most of society thinks that. I certainly think that way. As Rob Jamieson, the president of the Ontario Provincial Police Association, put it, “Ontario’s police officers are mothers, fathers, sons and daughters who serve because they care about their communities and feel a duty to help make Ontario a safer place.”

Many of the changes in this bill are simply unfair to those who put their lives on the line every day for our safety and will only further reduce their morale. When I have travelled across this province speaking to police officers, dealing with the anti-human trafficking laws that I have been trying to promote—that’s a very, very difficult topic. That type of horrific crime rips your heart right out of your chest. Police officers who choose to be trained in that—because they’re not all trained in human sex trafficking—have chosen to take on extra training.

They’ve chosen to delve into this horrific crime because they want to rescue those poor victims and they want to put those very, very bad pimps or traffickers behind bars and remove them from society so they can’t hurt any more people. They take the time, and sometimes it’s months and sometimes it’s years, to build up trust with that individual victim so that they feel comfortable, at whatever point in their life in that horrific game that they call it that they’re in of human trafficking, to trust that police officer. That takes time. That’s the real work of police officers: saving lives and protecting lives.

They put their whole heart and soul in, and some have to give up lots of their own family time to do this, because they do it sometimes way beyond the hours of their duty because they are so compassionate about it.

But legislation like this is taking the public distrust of police—it’s actually making police feel that the public don’t trust them and that they are being looked at as distrustful and maybe, at some points, the bad guys. If that effect becomes very public, if this government’s tone in this bill that we don’t trust police officers trickles down, we’re not going to save those victims. That’s going to ripple out. We want a society where people are running to police because they trust them and they believe they’re going to help them.

This bill gives the tone to the public that the government over there doesn’t trust the police to do their job. It’s a very, very serious tone that is set in this bill. I truly agree with the police and the many associations I’ve mentioned. They are truly upset. We should be celebrating and supporting the work of police officers in protecting our society, not denigrating it.

So, Madam Speaker, I’ll begin my detailed remarks by summarizing what I think are the major problems with Bill 175—and I may sit down in a minute or two. First of all, the bill would allow the outsourcing of certain police functions to private organizations, including security contractors, which carries with it significant community safety risks.

The bill leaves far too much to regulation. That means “details to follow” for those who may be watching out there in TV land. You have enabling legislation, so you have the bulk of it, but you have the details of

definitions and how things actually may work in regulations that are done not in the public discourse of the Legislature; they’re done by the government with not as much public scrutiny by far. That leads to a great deal of fear: “What are they going to do with that?” We’ve seen that with many, many bills, which leaves us with, “Why aren’t they telling us what they’re really going to do? Why don’t they put it in the legislation so we can all be clear and we can all be transparent?” I’m sure I’ll bring that topic up a few more times as I go through the parts of the bill.

The bill leaves too much to regulation and omits things that should clearly be codified in legislation, clearly explained; clearly, “This is what we mean” not some, “We’ll talk later in regulation”—this fuzzy, possible, “Trust us. Everything is going to be okay, and we’re going to listen to you sometime further down the road.” That doesn’t make the police associations or a lot of the public or, certainly, us in the opposition feel very comfortable with this codification in legislation by leaving it to regulation.

The bill, for example, the main one, shockingly does not adequately define what the core functions of police officers are to be in this reality.

Section 11 of the bill lists the obvious, but what they will look like in relation to what can be outsourced is a mystery. What are the core

definitions of policing, and what is going to be outsourced? We want to know; the police want to know. I think, as an average citizen, I want to know who is showing up when I call 911. What is going to be outsourced? I want to feel secure. I’m going to give some examples later on, but that is a very big topic that makes the public, as they get to know this bill, more nervous. It certainly feels that the police, who are specially trained and are the people who keep us safe—it makes them wonder how, maybe, they are going to be dismissed in some investigations.

The bill injects an unprecedented—and I say “unprecedented” to the ministers—level of ministerial discretion into policing decisions. It lays the groundwork for potential political interference in policing and disciplinary decisions, which is very problematic.

The bill will make it harder for police to deal with violent criminals, since it appears to presume bad intent on their part.

Finally, the bill significantly expands the bureaucracy associated with police oversight without the corresponding increase in resources—and that is the big key. We all want oversight. You can say it, as Liberal government is very good at saying things, but they never actually put the increase in resources for it to be done properly. And then where do they get taken from? Probably the front lines.

These are all major and really inexcusable flaws.

I’ll now go through the legislation,

schedule by schedule. Sorry, but you gave me a 417-page bill. I won’t get it all in in an hour, Madam Speaker, but they’re just inexcusable flaws, and we need to address them.

Schedule 1, the Police Services Act: The main change proposed by the Police Services Act is to allow police service boards and municipalities to enter into agreements with non-profit, and some for-profit, entities to provide some policing functions. This would open the door to the outsourcing of police duties to organizations like private security companies. While the government argues that this is an efficiency measure and that it would free police officers from having to “watch trucks come and go from construction sites,” as the community safety minister put it during her press conference, the risk of unintended circumstances are actually much more serious than they let on.

Consider this straightforward example: In the event of a terror threat at a public event—like there was at the Boston Marathon—would we want private contractors responding or would we want fully trained and qualified police officers responding? This is a very real public safety question that we could soon be facing if this bill becomes law. Could we really expect the same level of service to the public in such an emergency situation, given the disparities in training between full-time police officers and private contractors? Most Ontarians would say no, and the Police Association of Ontario has some convincing polling that shows this.

Here is another example: What if a police service board decides to outsource crime scene investigations to a private contractor? Can we really be confident that they will carry out this function to the same standards that we have come to expect from our professional police officers? The reality is that the gaping holes in this legislation could allow for more situations like these to happen.

The most glaring problem is that the bill fails to spell out the core functions of police officers. As I described before, that is a big, gaping hole. How can we move forward with a bill that does not provide clear guidance to police officers, police service boards or municipalities on what the parameters of policing are? If the answer is that the government will more clearly and precisely define the core functions of policing through regulations once this bill is passed, then they are showing us how little they respect the legislative process and this Legislature.

Or, if the answer is that the government will be making these decisions on a case-by-case basis, how do they expect to guarantee a level playing field and consistency across the board?

There is simply no reason that we shouldn’t be fully defining these responsibilities in this piece of legislation, especially since the government claims to have been working on it for such a long time. Why not be more transparent and include it in the legislation? Is this government simply lazy, or is this maybe a sign of some kind of hidden agenda? Do they want to reserve the right to define what policing is for themselves by way of regulations that they will draft without our legislative scrutiny? Do they want to blindside our already demoralized front-line police officers even further?

The government hasn’t told us, but I can assure this House that I will be asking these questions until we get some answers that actually make sense.

Getting back to the bill itself, a key element of the government’s modernization of policing is moving towards a community policing model. As part of this new approach, municipalities will be required to develop a community policing plan and to ensure that police service boards are representative of the population in their area. I want to say that the community policing model has the potential to be effective.

I have seen the coordinated approaches undertaken independently by several communities across Ontario to address human sex trafficking by bringing together a broad range of community organizations, victim service providers and police officers. This kind of approach can help to strengthen the co-operation between our police officers and our communities.

I’ve seen it most recently in my municipality of Kawartha Lakes, which has been outstanding in coordinating with their municipal police force, their OPP police forces and having the community service providers, educators, the children’s aid—we see everyone at the table. Peel region has done it; Halton region; Ottawa has done it. It has been replicated. They have been doing this of their own initiative. I certainly appreciate the effectiveness that can occur when that happens.

I know the approach many police officers actively engage in and support, especially in smaller communities across the province. However, the stark contrast with the government’s approach of leaving the core duties of police officers mostly undefined—I’m going to say this many times—they put very specific timelines for these community policing plans to be submitted to the ministry and implemented—I believe it’s two years—but timelines that could lead to sanctions if they are not followed. That is a significant amount of pressure to put on Ontario communities, and that’s what we have been hearing.

They specifically said it’s two years to do that, yet they leave out the definition of “core duties” of police officers.

So why is it that the government can define binding timelines for municipalities to generate community policing reports and diversity plans, but it can’t define the core functions of policing? Fair question. Also, how will this work for big cities as opposed to smaller communities? It looks like timelines will be the same for either. Is that fair? What is the government’s plan for rolling this process out? We don’t know yet.

We also see that this bill would prescribe training with respect to human rights and systemic racism for all police officers. That’s certainly a worthwhile measure, but I have to say it’s more than a little ironic that the government is willing to prescribe training for police officers, but it’s not willing to mandate sexual assault training for judges and justices of the peace. I’m sure you’ll hear a little bit more about that this afternoon, as I debate my private member’s bill. In any case, these training requirements expose yet another flaw in this government’s bill.

The additional sensitivity training and restrictions mandated by Bill 175 would not apply to the private security contractors that could now be hired to carry out policing functions—we’re just not sure what the functions are—and I would argue that that is a pretty huge double standard that could, again, lead to unequal outcomes. Once again, the bill is unclear about how that gap would be managed. But it seems again to show that the government is singling out police officers and presuming bad intent on their part.

Think about it: The government is basically giving police additional responsibilities and guidelines, but at the same time saying their roles could potentially be subcontracted to private security contractors that are not held to the same standard—a very good point to be brought up.

My fear is only made worse by the way the government keeps piling on the administrative layers as we keep going deeper into the bill. This bill would establish Ontario Provincial Police detachment boards to establish local policies and action plans that represent yet another layer of authority that will add to the cost and complexity. And “complexity” is the key word when we begin to consider the police oversight component of Bill 175.

First of all, the bill changes the names of the existing oversight bodies and expands their responsibilities. I’m going to get into a lot of acronyms that will be familiar to some and not to others. The Ontario Independent Police Review Director becomes the Ontario Policing Complaints Agency—so OIPRD now becomes OPCA—the complaints director being tasked with reviewing every single complaint submitted by the public. That’s going to be a lot of work. The Ontario Civilian Police Commission, OCPC, becomes the Ontario Policing Discipline Tribunal. The Special Investigations Unit, the SIU, becomes the Ontario Special Investigations Unit.

Aside from these changes, which were mostly made to clarify the responsibilities of these institutions, Bill 175 also adds a fourth layer of oversight, the Inspector General of Policing, on top of that. I said it was a very thick bill. That’s certainly a new oversight role. This new position of the Inspector General of Policing will have significant powers to monitor compliance with the act. The Inspector General of Policing will be able to appoint inspectors or initiate inspections and require the presentation of information on request. The inspector will also have the power to recommend that the minister use a disciplinary power.

The inspector—the IGP—and now the OSIU will also be able to potentially fine police officers up to $50,000 or to imprisonment of a term of not more than one year, if they don’t comply with its directions. It’s a significant amount of power and it adds even more complexity to the police oversight process. There is legitimate concern that this additional layer of police oversight will only make the current environment more difficult.

I’d like to quote the Postmedia editorial from last week which addresses an essential problem that this government needs to address. “When former Ontario ombudsman André Marin reviewed the SIU in 2011”—

Interjections.

Ms. Laurie Scott: Now you’re waking up—“he concluded senior officials in Ontario’s Ministry of the Attorney General—one of the two ministries responsible for implementing this new legislation—’actively undermined’ the SIU.”

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Order.

Ms. Laurie Scott: It’s a good thing it’s in Hansard, Madam Speaker, so they can see later.

“Since the Liberals were in charge then, as they are now, what assurances does the public have the same failings won’t be repeated?

“We’re also skeptical of the Liberals’ proposal to create a new ‘Inspector General,’ ostensibly to review complaints against police boards and chiefs, but which sounds to us like a patronage position.”

Once again, because of the lack of clarity in the bill—I’m asking for clarity, giving you a chance—there are open questions that need to be addressed by the government. Creating sweeping new powers and authorities is a serious matter, but the government does not seem to treat it with the care that it deserves. For example, the bill states that the minister may issue authorizations to employ special constables and that the minister may request information from policing entities such as the use-of-force data or race-based data. In what circumstances can they ask for that? It’s just not clear.

The bill also gives new powers to chiefs, police services boards or the minister to impose disciplinary measures on police officers, including suspensions. So although police officers may request a hearing before a tribunal to appeal this kind of disciplinary measure, the fact that the minister has the authority to unilaterally impose disciplinary measures will have a chilling effect and can lead to the possibility of politically motivated decisions being made in the future, whether due to public pressure or political considerations. It’s unprecedented, the minister’s power—

Interjection.

Ms. Laurie Scott: Well, she will have her time to speak.

So we think that’s wrong, and it really worries me. Why does the minister need such broad authority? Are we once again to trust them to develop the right kind of regulations to restrict and confine that authority? This is definitely the most problematic aspect of the government’s legislation, because the government has decided to allow for an unprecedented level of ministerial discretion and authority across a wide range of areas relating to police oversight.

Once again, the message is clear: The government does not trust the police, and reserves the right to engage in political interference in policing oversight, if it suits them. This gives the minister way too much influence over the overall process.

But even when the government gets something somewhat right in this bill, they don’t reach the best outcome. On the one hand, it’s good to see the government take a relatively balanced approach on suspension without pay for police officers who commit serious off-duty crimes. I know that this has been something that the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police was advocating for. But in the very next breath, the government fails to define what it considers a serious crime. Again, that’s irresponsible because it leaves it too open-ended—say what you mean.

Michael McCormack, the president of the Toronto Police Association, said that the province needs a clear definition of a serious crime outside of duty. “It doesn’t give the chiefs a sweeping power to suspend without pay at all.” He also adds that he is concerned that the government plans to pass the legislation in the five weeks before the Christmas break. That was brought up when the government introduced the bill to the media. So why can’t the government define what a serious crime is? Why the smokescreen?

Their failure to clearly define core police roles in legislation and now the failure to define what constitutes a serious crime will only cause further confusion among police officers. I just can’t understand the government’s rationale for these decisions.

Going further, Bill 175 states that the Special Investigations Unit director may investigate incidents involving a police officer, even if off-duty, in which a person dies, is seriously injured or in which a firearm is discharged. Significantly, this power will extend to reviewing incidents that occurred in the past. This will, again, be very resource-intensive. I know some police officers have been concerned about the retroactive nature of this.

Then we come to the government’s implementation of Justice Tulloch’s recommendations. When Justice Tulloch released his report, the Report of the Independent Police Oversight Review, last April, he made over 100 recommendations, almost all of which the government has said it will adopt. At this point, I’d like to read into the record the Police Association of Ontario’s submission in this regard. It’s a powerful statement of what the police think of the changes proposed in the government’s bill. It reads as follows:

“Since Attorney General Naqvi named Justice Michael H. Tulloch to conduct a review of Ontario’s police oversight bodies, the Police Association of Ontario has been working diligently to ensure that the final product of the various consultations and analysis was in the best interests of all Ontarians.

“Under the proposed act, Ontario’s oversight bodies would grow to a level out of step with public expectations of police oversight—beyond the practical ability of oversight agencies to do their work and the municipal and provincial budgets available for policing in Ontario generally. As drafted, this act would ensure poorer results for all interested parties.

“From our observation and experience it appears the oversight issue has snowballed beyond expectations since the public protests that gave rise to the appointment of Justice Tulloch. At that time, public and policing stakeholders were united in their view there were elements of the oversight system that required a review to ensure the process works for all Ontarians.” We all agree.

“Unfortunately, while Justice Tulloch approached his work diligently, he took an extremely expansive view of his mandate, leaving not enough time and resources to tightly focus on the issues of reporting and efficiency that he was tasked to specifically examine. As a result, some of his recommendations lack evidentiary underpinning while others appear to be crafted to appease certain stakeholders. Instead of adopting his perspective wholesale, the legislation that is now flowing from that report should have been crafted with an appropriate balance between deference to his work and critical thinking.

“The legislation appears to presume there is a crisis in policing and oversight in Ontario that must be corrected.... Police are among the most trusted public institutions in Canada and, as reported in their respective annual reports, the vast majority of oversight investigations lead to no charges in the cases in the SIU and lead to no finding of fault in the case of the OIPRD (Ontario’s public complaints body).” So when they give the illusion that there was a crisis in policing, we think that that is quite a distance from the truth.

Hon. Michael Coteau: Hear that?

Ms. Laurie Scott: “Contrary to sensationalized media coverage, evidence suggests”—

Interjection.

Ms. Laurie Scott: I’m reporting the evidence of the report—“for the most part, the oversight process is working despite the need”—changes, for sure—“for optimization in some areas such as reporting and efficiency.

“We are extremely troubled with some of the practical problems that will arise if the act is tabled as drafted.

“Both the SIU and OIPRD will quickly become overwhelmed with investigating matters and individuals the public expects would be investigated by local or provincial police. The result will be an inability to focus resources on those matters where there is a true public interest in an independent civilian reviewing of events. The public trust will only be harmed by such an unchecked expansion.

“We also have concerns with the incredible amount of scarce public resources that will need to be allocated to make the act a reality. In our estimation, both the OIPRD and SIU will expand their caseloads by at least a factor of 10. The majority of this expansion will take away from the duties of the oversight agencies which were created to ensure transparency, accountability and fairness in a timely manner for all affected parties.”

This is a crucial point. Even setting aside all of the concerns that I’ve already mentioned about how the government’s approach unfairly targets the important work done by our police officers, the government doesn’t even have a plan for how it will implement any of these massive changes. Their answer is, no doubt, that it will be in regulations, but it is very important, with the new oversight, that they have the resources they need to do the oversight.

For example, the Ontario Provincial Police Association’s president and CEO, Rob Jamieson, welcomed Justice Tulloch’s initial recommendations that the SIU conclude investigations in 120 days where possible:

“‘Putting timelines on that I think is good for the public, but it’s also very good for our police officers, who in some cases are waiting up to 15 months to find out whether or not they’re going to be charged criminally or not,’ he said.

“‘To us, that’s just unacceptable.’” That’s a quote from Rob Jamieson from the Ontario Provincial Police Association.

With the government saying it will follow all of Justice Tulloch’s recommendations, I’m looking at things like this commitment to conclude SIU investigations in 120 days, and I can’t see how the government is actually going to pay for it. The intentions are not enough. You hear that they want oversight and they want accountability, but when it can drag on for 15 months, that’s just not fair to the police and it’s not fair to the community that they are serving—that these cases drag out for such extensive lengths of time. I think the Ottawa Sun editorial from a couple of weeks ago titled “Liberals—Show Us the Money on Police Reforms” sums this up best. It says:

“The Office of the Independent Police Review Director, which currently receives public complaints, got more than 1,000 complaints about police officer conduct in 2015-16. It investigated 150 of them. The rest were sent back to police services to investigate.

“When the OIPRD becomes the new Ontario Policing Complaints Agency, the sole agency responsible for investigating public complaints, its workload is going to go up. How is it going to manage this huge caseload?”

Again, a very fair question—an absolutely critical question, and this government has no answer. How can we trust them to commit the resources that will be needed? I appreciate that we’re going to be having some more debates about this, and maybe when we can get into committee we can find out some more details, but it is a very legitimate question. There needed to be a change in the oversight; we agree, but where is the money? Justice Tulloch’s report and some of the people who worked on it agree that it needs to come with resources.

We’ve seen the government already fail to reinvest in the integrated guns and gangs task force, even though there has been a 58% increase in gun-related homicides in the city of Toronto in the past year alone. Coming back to the Police Association of Ontario submission:

“The corresponding budget required to properly equip these agencies with needed staff and resources in order for them to conduct investigations that the public would never expect them to conduct would be an unwise and structural drain on the public purse. To bring in such an expensive system at a time when municipalities are seeking to support legislation that will allow them to take resources out of policing would be unseemly. Hiving off valuable budget space that could be spent on the true issues present in policing such as interactions with vulnerable individuals and a better mental health support system is a poor use of precious resources.”

Going back to oversight—that oversight changes were needed: If the government doesn’t give them resources, is that going to affect what services they can provide on the front line? We know of the incredible increase of mental health situations that the police encounter: Usually over 30% of the calls are mental health-related in northern Ontario. I know that almost doubles on their police calls; that’s just our society that we live in. We have to do a better job. The police are on the front line of mental health crises, and those calls are just incredible, when those numbers come out—over 30% of the calls are mental health-related, and in some areas of the province even more.

“We would encourage all MPPs to closely examine the proposed act. The PAO has been consistent in our message that practical, robust oversight enhances the public trust in policing and leads to improved outcomes across the policing spectrum. However, oversight run amok and driven by political considerations is in no one’s best interests. An oversight system that is fair to both affected persons and professional police is our shared goal; unfortunately, the act, as drafted, will lead to negative outcomes for individuals on both sides of the issues and a continued erosion of public confidence of policing oversight in Ontario.”

Mr. Speaker, what a profound condemnation of the major flaws in the government’s legislation. It really speaks for itself. The government has had this submission for months now, so we can safely say that the government simply ignored these concerns and plowed ahead.

Schedule 6, the Coroners Act—the final three sections of Bill 175, on updating the functions of coroners, the Missing Persons Act and Forensic Laboratories Act.

The revisions to the Coroners Act are significant. On the one hand, we will now see the chief coroner appointing coroners, not the LG in Council. That is a positive change that will probably provide an improved efficiency in the appointment of coroners and remove political considerations from appointments.

However, we also see some potentially problematic changes. One of them would allow the coroner to hold an inquest even in a case is where a police officer’s use of force was not a direct contributor to the death and requiring that the coroner must provide written reasons if the coroner decides not to hold an inquest. This is problematic both from the perspective of the coroner and the police officer.

For the officer, it would mean that, even if an off-duty police officer stopped to pull someone out of a burning car who then dies, or if someone has a fatal heart attack in the back of the police car, that officer would automatically be suspended pending a coroner’s inquest. Do we really want our police officers to think twice about helping someone who is dying on the street for fear of being suspended from work? I know I don’t. That is not only unreasonable, but it will also put impossible pressure on coroners to investigate the additional cases that will inevitably result.

This is work that they aren’t yet properly resourced for. Just think about the effect on morale of both police officers and coroners.

Speaking of morale, one element of the legislation says that anything seized by a coroner for the purpose of an investigation must be kept safe and secure but not necessarily with the police. What kind of signal does that send? It seems to imply that police should be automatically suspected of being evidence tamperers. How else can you look at that? I hope that wasn’t the government’s intent, but that’s certainly the intent that is given as it sits now.

Schedule 7 is moving on the establishment of a Missing Persons Act. That is something that is long overdue. The measures contained in this bill will allow officers to apply for an order for the production of records, such as telephone and banking records, to assist in locating a missing person or to apply for a search warrant to facilitate the search for a missing person.

It’s very important—let me tell you how important this is. In my work on the human sex-trafficking file over the past several years, I’ve heard countless stories of missing girls who have been forced into this modern-day form of slavery. There has been some amazing work done by community organizations, as well as both private and public sector organizations to help track these criminals to rescue the girls that have been sold for sex. With the Missing Persons Act, police are allowed to do more investigations. It’s shocking that that didn’t exist before. This is one of the parts of the bill that is long overdue in coming. We have been trying to push for more attention.

I’m trying to watch my time and get all these points in here, but one of the most amazing examples is Project Protect, which is the “partnership between the Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada (FinTRAC), financial institutions and law enforcement that is using money trails to detect and investigate traffickers. Banks’ anti-money-laundering arms are starting to red-flag suspicious accounts, based on indicators such as multiple motel bookings, large expenditures at drugstores,” ATM activity and credit card activity. “They report suspicious activity to FinTRAC, which in turn notifies law enforcement.”

In the year since it was launched, they made 102 disclosures to police across Canada under that Project Protect label, and that, again, back to a human trafficking survivor—training the financial institutions that we have in our country and them taking up the gauntlet and creating indicators that can flag activity. When I went to a presentation that they did, they were so proud of the work they had done and the fact that because of that, they were not only helping make arrests for human trafficking and rescuing victims; they were actually finding missing persons.

That shocked them because, of course, when you get into this, you don’t know exactly what you may uncover. That was an incredible initiative, and I’m very proud of them for doing that. They are so thrilled at the impact that they are making.

You see the effect, and this kind of initiative underscores how important data is to our police. Providing those tools to our police officers is much needed and long overdue. I’m glad to see this finally happening. It brings us back to the resourcing issue, as always. Having tools is not the same thing as being resourced properly to carry out the work.

On the Forensic Laboratories Act, we have something that makes sense: Requiring mandatory accreditation for those carrying out laboratory tests for the purpose of legal proceedings is certainly a no-brainer, as is establishing an advisory committee to provide technical advice and expertise to the minister. Again, this is long overdue and will help to restore trust in the justice system, which was somewhat shaken in recent years with stories of unaccredited forensic laboratories providing false or misleading advice to the courts that led to wrongful convictions or the release of violent criminals.

Madam Speaker, that about sums up the content of the legislation at hand. I want to talk a bit about what’s not in the legislation—because there are some glaring omissions—in the time I have left. I’m sure it has been long enough for a lot of you.

One of the main issues that prompted the Police Services Act review in the first place was the growing public concern about fatal police shootings involving people who are mentally ill. Coming back to the Postmedia editorial I mentioned earlier, “But this proposed law does not address the fact that the major cause of these tragedies in most cases, as numerous inquests have revealed, is not police wrongdoing, but the lack of mental health services for people in crisis.

“As retired Supreme Court judge Frank Iacobucci concluded in his exhaustive review of Toronto police use-of-force guidelines in 2014: ‘The effective functioning of the mental health system is essential as a means of preventing people from finding themselves in crisis in the first place. There will not be great improvements in police encounters with people in crisis without the participation of ... municipal, provincial and federal governments because ... they are part of the problem and need to be involved in the solution.’”

I say to the government: When is the Wynne government going to step up on that issue? I have been speaking about it practically my whole time here. It has just escalated since then. That’s yet another good question for the government that remains unanswered. Everything seems to be one of the stretch goals that they have with them. Once again, we see so much focus from this government on this bill on police responsibility without addressing some of the core issues that have been presented, such as a challenge to community safety like mental health.

There’s also another thing that police have been calling on the government to implement for years, and this bill would have been the perfect opportunity to do it. I’m speaking about updating the Mandatory Blood Testing Act to protect first responders. Currently, when a first responder ingests bodily fluid from an individual in the line of duty—for example, blood enters their mouths during CPR—they can seek a warrant under the Mandatory Blood Testing Act to have the affected individual’s blood tested for infectious diseases if the individual chooses not to give a sample voluntarily.

While waiting for the results or the warrant, the impacted first responder must either take anti-HIV medication, which can be toxic to them, or wait until they get the results before taking medication, which means they risk infection.

I know my nursing stuff comes out a little bit here, but it’s a very simple request. Various police associations have raised concerns with the timelines for retrieval of a blood sample under the act, which oversees the warrant process, and that there is no process for testing the blood of deceased people or out-of-province people or people without a fixed address or ID. There are no real enforcement penalties for non-compliance with the act or even the warrant.

It’s a real concern affecting our front-line police officers. It’s something the government has been aware of for years but has done nothing to address. This legislation would have been a perfect opportunity to introduce such a change. Why is it still missing?

I can tell you why. The government simply refuses to listen to our police officers: another example of their failure to approach consultation in a real and meaningful way.

So, Madam Speaker, as I begin to close my remarks in the last few minutes, I wanted to reiterate my concerns with regard to the legislation as a whole.

First of all, the bill will allow the outsourcing of certain police functions to private organizations including security contracts, which carries with it significant community safety risks. The bill leaves far too much to regulation. It omits things that should certainly be codified in legislation. For example, the bill shockingly does not define what the core functions of police officers will be. The bill injects an unprecedented level of ministerial discretion into policing decisions. It lays the groundwork for potential political interference in policing and disciplinary decisions, which is extremely troubling.

The bill will make it harder for police to deal with violent criminals since it appears to presume bad intent on the part of the police. Finally, the bill significantly expands the bureaucracy associated with police oversight without a corresponding increase in resources.

I fully support the idea of modernizing policing for the 21st century. I’m a supporter of greater transparency. The government’s legislation doesn’t deliver on either in a way that we can be confident will work. Instead of modernizing policing, Bill 175 adds so many new bureaucratic structures and hurdles that will only make policing more difficult for our front-line officers. Instead of greater transparency, Bill 175 gives us a lack of clarity, open-ended

definitions of key terms, and a massive increase in ministerial authority and discretion—the risk of politicization of policing.

Those concerns have been loud and clear from the Ontario Provincial Police Association; the Police Association of Ontario, which represents our municipal police forces; and the Toronto Police Association. Those things have to be taken seriously. They were not consulted to the degree that they thought they were going to be consulted before the final bill was brought forward. The government could have done a better job at working out some of the things that I have highlighted that are of great concern and that undermine the trust that the government has in the policing that goes on in the province of Ontario—not something a government, I believe, would want to do.

The bill will ultimately drive up costs and increase burdens. Most of the changes put forward in this bill will require significant resources to implement, which the government did not address in their press conference or in their fall economic statement that we just had this week. If this bill took so long in the creation—the minister says it was five years—then I would think that the consultation—I think the majority of the heads of the police associations that I have been speaking about today have been there for a while. It’s not like they are just new to their jobs.

They have certainly been with those associations and been representing their front-line police officers for a long time. This would maybe have been a little bit more effective legislation than we see before us.

If they don’t intend to announce additional money to implement the bill, it will put impossible pressure on our institutions, and the legislative changes will be disastrous. The sad thing is, I don’t think that the government cares. They just want to tick a box and worry about the consequences later.

Five years in the making—this government has been in power for 14 years. They’ve had lots of time to study this and maybe have gotten this more correct. As I said, the police associations have been more than willing to work with the government on this legislation. It’s unfortunate that the people who will face the worst consequences of this government’s track record of irresponsibility will be our front-line police officers, and ultimately all Ontarians, who will end up with less transparency, less accountability and a demoralized police force, meaning reduced community safety.

We simply don’t trust this government to get this very important process right. They’ve had years to prepare for this reform, and they’ve missed the mark. Speaker, as you’ve heard, this is a bill that our police associations aren’t supporting—and who could blame them?—with the government going out of its way to act against the interests of hard-working police officers. I’ve probably made many examples of that in this hour-long speech. But the fact is, the government didn’t listen to the legitimate concerns of our police officers.

They’re offering no new resources to fund this major overhaul, and frankly, their policy track record doesn’t give us much hope that they won’t just bungle the implementation process of this bill, as they have so often done with past bills. That’s why the official opposition cannot support this legislation as it presently stands.

I appreciate the fact that I’ve had this opportunity to speak today from a sitting position, which is not normal. Madam Speaker, thank you for the time that has been allotted me. I’m sure I’ll hear some feedback from the government side. I appreciate the ministers involved being here in the Legislature listening today. I do appreciate that.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Questions and comments?

Mr. Wayne Gates: Thank you very much for allowing me to speak to Bill 175, the Safer Ontario Act. I do appreciate the minister being here, as well.

We have 18,000 police officers in Ontario. This should always be about public safety. That should be the issue here: How do we get to public safety in the province of Ontario?

We all had the opportunity yesterday, I believe, where police officers came and talked to us about this bill. I think every party here had the opportunity: Liberals, Conservatives. This is what they’re saying—and this is important. Minister, I’d really like you to listen to this, because this is really the key point here through this whole debate:

“This bill will allow police officers and other police professionals to be replaced wholesale by private providers. When it comes to providing the services that the community expects in a professional, efficient, transparent and regulated manner, the Safer Ontario Act fails.” That’s given to us by the Ontario police. That’s what they were telling us yesterday.

It also says that in order to prevent broad privatization, before agreeing to a vote in favour of the House, Ontario representatives must insist that policing stays public. I’m looking to the PC who just did an hour lead, and I’m looking to the Liberals. I want you to stand up one by one and say: Do you believe that policing in the province of Ontario should stay in public hands? When people say, “Why is that like that?” Well, take a look at what has happened in health care, when we privatized health care, and some of the challenges that we have around health care. Do we want those same challenges in policing?

Our police officers, who are doing their job every single day, are telling us that it has to stay public for one reason and one reason only. The only reason why I stood up today with two minutes here was to say that it has to make sure the public is safe.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Questions and comments?

Hon. Marie-France Lalonde: It’s a pleasure to be here in response to our critics on the PC side. Certainly I want to say thank you to all the men and women who every day put their lives at risk to protect us. When it comes to public safety, policing will always remain a key component of our public safety in Ontario, and I want to say thank you.

They were here yesterday. I know they had an opportunity to talk to us. I spent hours listening to some of their concerns. But at the same time that we are hearing this, we’re also bringing forward, I would say, with this piece of legislation, a proactive model of policing that engages the entire community.

The member opposite says that it has potential to be effective, and I would say: It will be. We have to remember that Ontario continues to be the safest jurisdiction in North America, and it’s largely due to the excellence of our policing.

That being said, what I heard when I went on ride-alongs all summer on a few occasions and encountered and met with police is that they need tools. There is a complexity now that, as they engage with the current situation that they’re facing—we’ve talked about vulnerable citizens. A big component—and that’s something that we have to be proud that we’re bringing forward: a community safety and well-being plan where municipalities will look at local needs, address them, reflect on them and work in partnership with several sectors.

Madam Speaker, do you know what? I am very pleased to move forward this legislation. We have goals and we have a plan on this side, and this is why we’re bringing forward this wonderful policy.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Questions and comments?

Mr. Lorne Coe: I’m pleased to enter the debate this morning on this legislation. I would like to, first of all, commend the member from Haliburton–Kawartha Lakes–Brock for her one-hour commentary on the legislation, pointing out some of the challenges with this legislation but at the same time acknowledging some of the initiatives that are based in the legislation.

I think where we’ve had success, Speaker—and you would acknowledge this—is where there’s a broad and robust level of consultation with some of the key partnerships that we have—for example, with the police associations across Ontario. I had the opportunity, just like many members of the Legislature did. My colleague from Niagara Falls pointed out that we met with a number of the associations.

I met with the association from the region of Durham—the Durham Regional Police Association. They raised concerns about the general theme of the bill. They felt that the bill exposes the government’s distrust of police officers and that the government didn’t listen very well to some of the suggestions originating from the police associations, particularly from the region of Durham. One of the points they made, I think, is very important. It’s a large association.

Collectively, when you take into account their family members, it’s 18,000 people who support the directions of the region of Durham’s police association and others across the province. What they are looking for is legislation that underpins the respect for the work of police officers in protecting our safety. The member from Niagara Falls is right: The basic premise of this legislation is community safety and how we effect that community safety.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Questions and comments?

Mr. Taras Natyshak: I want to congratulate our colleague the member from Haliburton–Kawartha Lakes–Brock on her one-hour lead. She did a great job, as always, in examining the bill and presenting it to us in a really easy-to-digest sort of way. What I think I gleaned from her speech was that there’s a lot wrong with this bill, and it will have either intended or unintended consequences for our communities that I don’t think are going to be for the better.

I’ll have the lead on the bill probably next week, but there are two potential pitfalls. One is the opening up of police services to privatization in our communities. That means you are going to get potentially rent-a-cops at 15 bucks an hour attending emergency scenarios without the proper training, without the proper guidance and without the proper oversight. One that they’re talking about is the police services dogs. That service could potentially be outsourced and privatized. These are professionals who currently use police services dogs for very specialized reasons. We can’t mess with that. We shouldn’t mess with that.

The other provision: We were all proud here, I think, as a Legislature, to extend post-traumatic-stress benefits in presumptive legislation for first responders. The bill today, as it’s crafted under this Safer Ontario Act, will effectively eliminate police officers’ ability to access post-traumatic-stress benefits, because the provisions establish the ability for police boards to essentially demote and then fire police officers in the case that they get injured or suffer from PTSD. The government should be very concerned with this, as should all the members—

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Thank you. I return to the member from Haliburton–Kawartha Lakes–Brock to wrap up.

Ms. Laurie Scott: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Oh, I’m standing; I forgot I could sit.

Anyway, I appreciate the comments from the member from Niagara Falls. The biggest thing to remember is that this is about a public safety issue and how we deal with our front-line people who provide the biggest public safety service that we have. It is challenging to the police officers and the associations that we heard from. They are the ones who make our public safe. If they are upset and haven’t been consulted properly, we should be very concerned about that and bringing this forward to the government.

I appreciate the Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services speaking this morning. I’m sure we’ll have more dialogue—or I hope that we’re going to have more dialogue—on what we see as the challenges with this bill. When things aren’t clearly enough defined, as in what is a core service and what is the reason why police can be taken off a police force because of something they have done off-duty—why are they not defining that in legislation? That’s what gives fear and anxiety about what they are hiding and what they are going to change.

Of course, the police are going to be upset with this and, of course, they should be, because when you leave a lot of things to regulation, you don’t necessarily have the public discourse, which I mentioned before.

I want to thank the member from Whitby–Oshawa and the member for Essex for their comments. There will be many more comments to come about the concerns they have with this, as I said, 417-page bill that the government wants to ram through before the middle of December. It’s quite a challenging feat and doesn’t give itself to a lot of public changes that we would like to present.

Thank you, Madam Speaker, for your time.

Second reading debate deemed adjourned.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Seeing it’s almost 10:15, I will be recessing the House until 10:30.

The House recessed from 1014 to 1030.

Introduction of Visitors

M me France Gélinas: I am glad to introduce Mrs. Jane Meadus as well as Christine Morano, who are from the Advocacy Centre for the Elderly; as well as Josef Méthot. Josef is an intern with me in the OLIP program. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Welcome.

Mr. Arthur Potts: It’s a pleasure to introduce a constituent, a neighbour and the executive director of the Nurse Practitioners’ Association of Ontario here for a lobby day: Theresa Agnew is somewhere in this House.

Mr. Jack MacLaren: It gives me great pleasure to introduce a group of friends and colleagues from the Trillium Party of Ontario. In the members’ gallery we have two candidates, Carlos Lacuna and George Garvida. We have Lionel Poizner, and his daughter, Leanor Poizner, and his wife, Samantha Poizner; Mahendra Pitamber; Liam Chokrev-Evans; Giselle Prudenco; Sheila Garvida; Zabeeda Pitamber; and Antonio Afable. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Hon. Liz Sandals: I’m delighted this morning to introduce the family of our page captain, Isabelle Funk. We have with us—from Guelph, I might add—her parents, Elisha and Justin Funk, and her brother, Frederick Funk, who we’re trying to talk into becoming a page in the future too.

Mr. Toby Barrett: I wish to introduce and welcome Laura Van Berlo, here today with Ontario’s nurse practitioners.

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: I want to welcome to the Legislature members from the Ontario Electricity Stakeholders Alliance and the Ontario Energy Association. Welcome to the Legislature.

Ms. Sophie Kiwala: I would like to extend a warm welcome to Jill Burkholder, my nurse practitioner from my riding of Kingston and the Islands. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Hon. Reza Moridi: Please join me in welcoming Mr. Babak Khodaparast from the International Federation of Inventors’ Associations.

Hon. Kathryn McGarry: I’d like to welcome to Queen’s Park today Paula Carrera, a nurse practitioner from the nurse practitioner-led clinic in Cambridge, and the other nurse practitioners here today.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Speaker, it’s my pleasure to welcome and introduce Alex Felsky, from your city of Brantford, and her husband, Tim Deelstra, to the Legislature. Welcome. I’m glad to see you here.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I was going to get to that, because I have to wait until last, but thank you. I appreciate that.

The Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services.

Hon. Marie-France Lalonde: It gives me great pleasure to say “welcome” to our great nurse practitioners. I had the pleasure of meeting with Denise Marion this morning from the South-East Ottawa Community Health Centre. As I understand, she’s also a resident of our wonderful community of Orléans. So on behalf of the Ottawa caucus, welcome to all of you.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: I want to welcome Hoda Mankal, who is, first and foremost, a good friend of mine, but also a nurse practitioner at the Carlington Community Health Centre in the great riding of Ottawa Centre. Welcome, Hoda.

Mr. Lou Rinaldi: I would like to welcome four people from the riding of Northumberland–Quinte West: Catharine Henderson, Dr. Robert Henderson, Victoria Welstead and Tim Lilleyman. They purchased Lunch with Lou in support of Warkworth’s Bridge Hospice. Welcome.

Mrs. Cristina Martins: I would like to welcome, along with Minister Sousa, a number of guests who are visiting here today from Portugal: Dr. José Cesário, deputy of the Assembly of the Republic of Portugal; Dr. Carlos Carvalho, mayor of the municipality of Tabuaço, Viseu; Dr. José Manuel Bolieiro, mayor of the city of Ponta Delgada, Sao Miguel, Azores; and Dr. José Andrade, cabinet chief to the office of the mayor of Ponta Delgada. They are accompanied here today by Ana Costa, of the Transmontano Folklore Group, which is celebrating their 36th anniversary this weekend. Bem-vindos.

Hon. Brad Duguid: I’m honoured to introduce a delegation here from our Albanian community, led by Ruki Kondaj, our Albanian champion. It also includes our ambassador, His Excellency Ermal Muça, who is here with us—was here with us; I don’t know if he’s here with us today. He may or may not be. The whole delegation is here to get us ready for Albanian Heritage Month. Welcome, and thank you.

Hon. Kevin Daniel Flynn: I’d like to inform the House that today’s page captain is Sean Reynolds. He’s joined by his mother, Karen Mino, and his father, Steve Reynolds. His grandparents are even here: Irene and Ronald Mino. On behalf of the member for Burlington, please welcome them all to Queen’s Park.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Welcome. Further introductions?

Following the leader of the third party, I too would like to welcome a constituent, Alex Felsky, and her husband. Thank you for being here. Welcome.

Applause.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Yes, they can have applause. They’re my constituents—good friends.

Also in the Speaker’s gallery today we have with us Mr. Kaihan Ahadi, the consul general of Afghanistan to Toronto. He’s accompanied by his wife, Mrs. Lida Hidayatullah Ahadi. Thank you very much for joining us. Welcome.

Oral Questions

Minimum wage

Mr. Patrick Brown: My question is for the Premier. I would like to read a quote: “In the past, political whim and government ideology has ... driven minimum wage.... We have to bring in legislation to tie it to inflation and I hope we have the support of the other parties in the Legislature.... It is the fairest position that we could have taken.”

Mr. Speaker, can the Premier tell us who said that?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I think I might have said that. Mr. Speaker, I said it at a time when the economy was really in trouble, when we were recovering from the economic downturn. We made a decision about tagging the minimum wage to the inflation rate, and that’s exactly what we will do after we raise the minimum wage: $14 this January, $15—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): We’ll move to warnings if we need to. That will be the next move.

Finish, please.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: —$15 on January 1, 2019, Mr. Speaker. The plan that the opposition has put forward, to roll back that minimum wage increase, is unfair. It does not recognize the reality that people—

Mr. John Yakabuski: That’s false. That’s false.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): We’re in warnings. Thank you. And they’ll come quick.

Carry on.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: It does not recognize the reality that people in the province—although the province is doing very well economically, there are people who are struggling to get ahead.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Patrick Brown: Again to the Premier: I acknowledge the Premier’s consistently fighting a $15 minimum wage for years, when the NDP had proposed this. Now what’s happened? Six months from an election—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The government House leader is warned.

Carry on.

Mr. Patrick Brown: Mr. Speaker, for years the Premier steadfastly fought a $15 minimum wage, and what happens? Six months before an election, she changes her tune. Let me share a more recent quote from the Premier on a $15 minimum wage:

“This is a fair adjustment to the minimum wage and it gives businesses predictability.”

“It takes the decision out of the realm of political whim....”

The Premier was fighting for business predictability against a $15 minimum wage. Can the Premier tell us why all of a sudden she has changed her mind?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Unlike the Leader of the Opposition, who is the leader of a party that froze the minimum wage for nine years, Mr. Speaker, I am part of a government that has increased the minimum wage year after year after year. I have never fought increases to the minimum wage. I have supported minimum wage increases.

When we made the decision to bump the minimum wage and to tag it to inflation, we determined at that time that because the economy was not in good shape, we wouldn’t do that catch-up. That was something that was said to us, you know, that we should do a catch-up. At that time, we believed that that would not be responsible.

But, Mr. Speaker, I have always believed that a minimum wage that was a living wage was important. That’s why we are putting in place a $15 minimum wage that that party would roll back.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock, please. Be seated, please. Thank you.

Final supplementary?

Mr. Patrick Brown: Again to the Premier: I’d appreciate that we don’t say false statements in the House, like a rollback that the Premier knows is absolutely false. But let me just say that the gist of my question is this: You’ve got TD Bank saying 90,000 jobs will be lost; you’ve got the chamber saying it’s much more than that. We’re going to see low-income, vulnerable workers lose their jobs because the Premier refuses to have a reasonable phase-in.

The Premier actually said something else recently. This is the Premier of Ontario: “We really want to move away from an ad hoc system.... We have to move very carefully because this is about making sure that we retain and create jobs.” This is in speaking against the NDP proposal for a living wage. So you have the Premier saying it will kill jobs, and then all of a sudden she changes her mind.

If a year ago you think it killed jobs, why does the Premier think now that all of a sudden her previous statements don’t exist?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. Be seated, please. Thank you.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Without the comments.

Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Mr. Speaker, the economy in Ontario is doing very well. When we made a decision to tag the increases to the minimum wage to inflation, we were in a time when we were digging out of a recessionary hole. We’ve done that. At this moment, with the province doing as well as it is, it is only fair that everyone in this province, if they’re working 40 hours a week, shouldn’t have to go to the food bank. They should be able to look after themselves and their children. You’re either on the side of fairness or you’re not.

You either believe that people should be able to feed themselves and their families or you don’t. We believe people should be able to, and they apparently do not.

Home care

Mr. Patrick Brown: My question is for the Premier. Since I can’t get an answer on her flip-flop on minimum wage, let’s try another topic.

SEIU’s ties to the secret new home care agency bring up some really interesting questions. Of course, the cozy ties between SEIU and Liberal insiders are very well known. But we’ve learned that a Liberal friend and insider, Barry Monaghan, has been tasked with leading this secret new agency. Barry Monaghan has been tied to other questionable Liberal dealings in the past.

My question, Mr. Speaker, directly to the Premier, is: How can the people of Ontario trust this agency to get it right when they are stacking the agency with Liberal insiders and friends?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Health and Long-Term Care.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Several years ago, we asked Gail Donner to create an expert task force to look at home and community care and what more we could do to support individuals who require those services.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): All right, let’s go. The member from Dufferin–Caledon is warned.

Carry on.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: One of her 10 recommendations, that of the task force, was to create programs for self-directed care, understanding that there were individuals and caregivers receiving home care that wanted more control. They wanted choice, Mr. Speaker. They wanted to be able to select their specific PSW, for example. They wanted to be able to determine the schedule, the hours, themselves.

So we followed her advice, and through the LHINs, we’re going to be doing two different programs. In one, we’re going to give funds directly to home care clients so they can purchase those services themselves. But there are others who have chronic conditions requiring more than 14 hours of home care a week who don’t want to be involved in negotiating contracts. They don’t want to have to remit funds to Revenue Canada on behalf of employees—

Mr. Steve Clark: Looking after your friends, Liberal insiders.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Okay, we’ll go there. The member from Leeds–Grenville is warned.

Carry on.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: I’m happy to talk in the supplementary. We looked to other jurisdictions to see how they were addressing that problem. I’m happy to speak to that in a moment.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Patrick Brown: I can appreciate why the Premier doesn’t want to be on the record on this. The Liberals never miss an opportunity to take care of one of their own insiders. Barry Monaghan was the former CEO of the Toronto Central LHIN. Despite resigning, he was paid—

Mr. James J. Bradley: And Mr. Harper?

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. The chief government whip is warned.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): It’s not my job.

Carry on.

Mr. Patrick Brown: Mr. Speaker, despite resigning, he was paid $351,000 the very next year. While collecting this salary, Monaghan accepted a six-figure untendered consulting contract from the Mississauga Halton LHIN. That’s $455,000 taken away from front-line services.

I get that the Premier doesn’t want to answer this question, because how can she look the people of Ontario in the face and say that she thinks a $455,000 salary for a Liberal insider at the expense of front-line care is appropriate? But I can ask the Premier again: Is this appropriate? Is that salary appropriate when you’re cutting nursing and you’re cutting health care in the province of Ontario?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please.

Minister?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Mr. Speaker, the reality is that individuals who are receiving that complex and that chronic care from home care providers often have little knowledge or ability to take the time to deal with things like employer taxes, employee benefits and how to conduct background screenings of PSWs. So we looked around the world. In fact, we looked at successful models that have been implemented in Washington, California, Australia, Germany, France, Scotland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Oregon and many, many states in the United States that have successfully, with great outcomes and great patient/client satisfaction, provided this service as an intermediary.

Those back-office functions, if you will—negotiating contracts, doing the background checks on PSWs, for example—those will be done by an organization to provide that extra choice to home care clients.

I would hope that the member opposite, the leader of the official opposition, would agree that choice is important.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Mr. Patrick Brown: Mr. Speaker, the question is to the Premier again. Previously, the Liberals got caught paying a Liberal insider $455,000. Now they’re going back to the same insider, trying to “thank” them again. They create complex schemes as a manner in which to thank their own.

The reason I’m concerned about this, beyond that it’s wrong to simply always look at ways to thank Liberal insiders and supporters, is that the Auditor General has said that we now spend 39% of our home care budget on administration. They’re creating bureaucracy, they’re creating administration just to take care of their own and they’re cutting front-line services. It’s not acceptable.

We’ve outlined the ties between the Liberal Party and SEIU. Now we’ve got insiders who are visibly and publicly being thanked by the government in this new secret agency. My question to the Premier is, how can you tolerate this? How can you allow this? How can you allow front-line services to be diminished while you take care of your own? It’s not right.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I wish I knew who it was.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): That’s not helpful either.

Minister?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Mr. Speaker, the only person that’s it’s secret to is the Leader of the Opposition, because he’s so busy trying to concoct a plan for his party, which is completely absent. If he had been paying attention, he would have known that we announced this in early October to much fanfare, in front of the media, in front of home care clients and the providers themselves. It’s on our website. We’ve been discussing it and consulting with our partners.

This is about choice, Mr. Speaker. It directly follows an explicit recommendation of our task force on home and community care. In fact, in that same announcement, I announced $100 million of new investments into home care this year, more than a million PSW hours added to home care.

I know he missed that. I don’t know what he was doing. But this is a great plan, a great program that is being rolled out across a dozen or more US states, as well as across Europe and Australia. That’s the model we’re following.

Hospital funding

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is for the Premier. A few days ago, an Ontario doctor named Sohail Gandhi wrote an

article expressing his concern about the readiness of our hospitals for a surge in patients due to this year’s flu. Specifically, he said, “Ontario can’t handle a surge in flu cases.”

With many Ontario hospitals regularly operating over 100% capacity even before flu season takes its toll, will the Premier heed the warnings of doctors, nurses and nurse practitioners, who are here with us in the gallery today, and all health care professionals, and finally give hospitals and front-line health care workers the resources they need to take care of the people of this province?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: First of all, I want to acknowledge the nurse practitioners who are here with us today, who do a fantastic job. We are so proud—

Applause.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Yes—of all of them. I’m so proud of the support that our government has been able to give to nurse practitioners. We know that there is more we can do to work with them as they lead nurse practitioner-led clinics, as they practise to their full scope in our communities.

Mr. Speaker, to the issue of the surge capacity: I know the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care will want to speak to this, but we recognize that there is a need to expand the opportunities for hospitals, for the health care system to provide for that surge, which is why there are more beds that are being available. We are responding to that challenge. We are working to solve the problem, and that’s exactly why there will be an expansion of beds in the province.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Dr. Gandhi noted that this summer there was a “shortage of beds in neonatal intensive care units” that affected the entire province. The Premier’s Ministry of Health told reporters that this was a one-time event, but Dr. Gandhi says, “This is just ridiculous.”

Health systems need to plan for the unexpected. That’s why it’s so important that bed occupancy rates in hospitals stay at or below 85%. Ontario’s hospitals are regularly exceeding 100% capacity. It’s one thing when there’s a bed shortage in the summer, when there are almost no flu cases to deal with; what will happen when already overcrowded hospitals are forced to take in even more patients this winter as the flu season is upon us?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Health and Long-Term Care.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Once again, the NDP are asking us to provide a solution, we provide a solution, and they don’t like our solution. They seem to oppose everything we do, every single investment in our health care system, not the least of which was our investment of $7 billion in additional funds over the next three years in our health care budget, which they voted against.

Just a few weeks ago, we announced 2,000 additional beds and spaces across this province, including 1,200 new acute-care beds that would address capacity issues. By the way, the vast majority of our hospitals, unlike what the leader of the third party said, are well within capacity. We made that investment of 1,200 new acute care beds, as well as more than 500 transitional spaces, like the former Humber River Hospital site that they don’t like.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Health care professionals warned that this year might be a particularly bad year for the flu in Ontario. Ontarians are rightly concerned about where people are going to go when hospitals are already bursting at the seams. Dr. Gandhi says, “We know the hospital system has no surge capacity. If you are already at 110%, where’s the room to surge?”

Well, Premier, where is the room to surge in a place like Brampton Civic Hospital, where last year 4,352 patients were on stretchers in hallways getting care?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: I wonder what her members think, whether they approve or disapprove of the fact that we’re adding 20 new acute inpatient beds to Windsor Regional Hospital. I wonder what the members from the Windsor area think about that, or London Health Sciences Centre, where we’re adding 24 new acute care in-patient beds as well as an additional 24 acute care mental health beds to London Health Sciences Centre. I wonder what her MPPs from the London area think about that.

Or Hamilton Health Sciences: The leader of the third party herself, what’s her response to the 30 additional in-patient beds at Hamilton Health Sciences, the three neonatal intensive care unit beds we’re adding to Hamilton Health Sciences, the 26 in the Niagara Health system, the 24 at St. Joseph’s community health centre in Hamilton, the 22 at Lakeridge in Oshawa? I’m curious to know what her members—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. New question.

Hospital funding

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My next question is also for the Premier. There were no new commitments in this week’s economic update to give families hope that when they go to the hospital, they’re actually going to get a room and not a hallway, not a broom closet, not a shower room.

The temporary beds that the Premier has announced and that the minister was just talking about don’t even come close to meeting the glaring need for stable, predictable, adequate hospital funding. We have doctors speaking out, nurse practitioners speaking out, patients speaking out, because this situation is only going to get worse when the flu hits. Why is the Premier ignoring the advice of health care professionals and playing a very dangerous game with the health and safety of the people of Ontario?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Health and Long-Term Care.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: We are responding and we are investing and we are concerned about the potential of the record bad flu season that happened in Australia, that that could visit us this winter as well. That’s why we’re encouraging everyone to get a flu vaccine.

But I find it curious that every single investment that we’ve made this year and last year and before that, the NDP has opposed. The $500-million investment in our hospital operating budgets, they voted against. We worked closely with the Ontario Hospital Association precisely to create these 1,200 new acute care beds that we’re investing in, and they seem to oppose that as well. We’re making 500-plus new beds available for transitional spaces, like the 150 at the former Humber River site on Finch Avenue here in the GTA. They’re opposed to that.

Every single investment that we’re making on behalf of our hospitals, our hard-working front-line health care workers, including our nurse practitioners, they seem to oppose.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Well, winter is coming and the flu season is coming with it. We know from medical experts that it’s going to be a particularly bad year. We know from medical experts and people using our hospitals that right now, before the flu season has taken its toll, people are already facing unacceptable conditions and delays in receiving hospital care. We know that hospital administrators and front-line staff are doing what they can to keep up. We know that the Premier has failed to offer up a plan that will even make a dent in the overcrowding crisis that she and her Liberal government have helped create.

When will the Premier take this bad flu season seriously, stop defending the actions of her health minister and put her focus back where it should be, which is on the health and well-being of Ontario families?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: The leader of the third party is correct that winter is coming. Winter is coming if that party ever returns to power in this province. It will be a dark day. And for the benefit of our nurse practitioners and others who are watching today, it was that party, the five years that they were in power—

Interjection.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: I know they don’t want to hear this, but they closed 9,600 acute care hospital beds. They closed 24% of all the acute hospital beds in this province—only beaten by the PCs, who closed 10,000, but they were a close second. They closed 13% of the mental health beds in this province. In their last budget, they decreased hospital funding by 1% and they reduced the overall health care budget by 0.6%, the second year in a row. They took 230 drugs off the formulary and they delisted home care. That’s their record.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: I’m going to leave the Premier with one final thought from Dr. Gandhi. He said, and I quote—

Interjections.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: You know, I find it very disturbing that the Liberals are joking about the health of the people of this province and the mess they’ve made in our hospitals. It’s disgusting. It is disgusting.

Here’s what Dr. Gandhi said: “Physicians already know that due to the woeful mismanagement of the Ontario health care system by Premier Kathleen Wynne and her hapless health minister Eric Hoskins, Ontario hospitals simply don’t have the resources to cope with a surge of patients.”

Clearly, the Premier and her Minister of Health have not inspired much confidence so far with their ability to handle a potential flu surge. There’s an important role for the province to play here, Speaker. We need to ensure that Ontario families have the health care that they need, even during a surge caused by a particularly bad flu.

Does the Premier plan to rethink her approach to hospital funding so that families can actually receive their medical treatments in rooms and not in hallways?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Dr. Sohail Gandhi—I particularly enjoy his Huffington Post articles. I know that he likes to target me specifically, but I appreciate that he’s active and is putting his opinion forward.

In 2014, in the election, the leader of the third party refused to identify where—the member from Kitchener–Waterloo, the NDP candidate at the time, declared that they would find $600 million in annual savings from health and education. Had they won that election in 2014, we would have seen—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): It might be somebody sitting in a different seat that I can’t see. I’m not sure. I think he knows why I did it.

Carry on.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: The member from Kitchener–Waterloo went on to say, “I would go first to health” to find those $600 million in cuts. I think that’s on record as the worst campaign platform suggestion, next to the PC commitment to cut 100,000 jobs.

Property taxation

Mr. Victor Fedeli: My question is for the Premier.

A senior, a widow on a fixed income in rural northern Ontario, has raised serious concerns with the Premier over the last 18 months. She was sent a notice that her property assessment will jump from $78,000 all the way to $186,000. It means that she’s now facing a tax bill as high as $11,200. It would take 11 months of her widow’s pension just to cover her tax bill. And to make matters worse, this is a home without sewer and water, sidewalks, natural gas, cable or even neighbourhood parks. How is that fair, Speaker?

How does the Premier expect a senior on a fixed income to afford to live in the high-cost Ontario that she has created?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Finance.

Hon. Charles Sousa: I appreciate the question, and we recognize the concerns that he raises. That’s why MPAC has been established, to look at the comparators around the province, including in his community. Members of the municipality also sit on that board and also provide for assessments. I would encourage anyone who feels that it has been too high to do the appeal, as is available to them, and to provide the adjustments.

I also recognize—the member may want to express this to his constituent, a senior, that there are other options available to them, and if he doesn’t, I’m happy to do so.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Victor Fedeli: Back to the Premier: It has been 18 months, so platitudes don’t do anything for seniors facing these outrageous increases. She has been asking for help for 18 months and has received nothing.

In March 2016, the local Liberals refused face-to-face meetings. In October 2016, the Premier offered her personal assistance but took no action. She doesn’t need a fact-finding mission from the Premier’s office; this northern constituent needs action today.

This widow is not alone. There are 40 other families in this northern community struggling with the same issue. How is that fair?

Will the Premier take action today, or does she need longer than 18 months to address this?

Hon. Charles Sousa: Let me get this straight: This is the member who represents the senior? This is the member’s constituent? If it is, he should have allowed that senior the options to talk to the municipality about the flexibility in adjusting those rates to provide assessments that we can phase in over a four-year period, and there are other measures that are currently available.

I hope he has also advised the senior of some of the measures that are being done right now to help seniors, in a suite of options. Just recently we released Aging with Confidence—it’s in this fall bill—that enables us to provide even greater supports for seniors on an ongoing basis, including more care at home, all of which are entitlements that will help seniors. I hope the member opposite will support those initiatives.

Health care

Ms. Catherine Fife: My question is to the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care. Last week, I met with long-term-care health workers in my riding. They’re tired, they are understaffed and they are always working short. They shared the stories of families with parents and grandparents who are on the wait-list for long-term care. Instead of being in long-term-care facilities and homes like they deserve, they are left with no choice but to go to overcrowded hospitals for 24 consecutive months.

In Waterloo region, Grand River Hospital has been operating over capacity in many of their divisions for 24 consecutive months. We are seeing the results of years of Liberal and Conservative cuts: There are too many people on long-term-care wait-lists and not enough beds in our hospitals.

Whether it’s in a long-term-care home or a hospital, the people of Waterloo and all Ontarians deserve safe and consistent care. What is the government’s plan to make sure that all Ontarians get the care that they need?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: I have the capacity levels of every single hospital across the province in front of me. I’m looking at Grand River Hospital, which was the hospital mentioned, in the member opposite’s riding—and I appreciate her raising this question. Every single month, from April to September, that hospital was below capacity—every single month.

Nonetheless, and despite that, as part of our announcement several weeks ago for the 1,200 new acute-care beds, we made an additional allocation of seven additional acute in-patient beds to Grand River Hospital and are providing just under half a million dollars to support those beds.

We’re making those investments that are critically important across the province, those investments to help those hospitals that are facing challenges to be able to provide and continue to provide the best possible patient care.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Catherine Fife: Again to the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care: In Waterloo region, there are 2,625 people on the wait-list for long-term care. The LHIN shared these numbers with us. But when I asked the minister for data on occupancy rates for Grand River Hospital and St. Mary’s hospital two weeks ago in committee, I was told that the minister had to consult with ministry staff. I also sent a letter to the minister, but have yet received no answer.

The people of Kitchener–Waterloo and Ontario—everyone deserves to know the state of their hospitals because, in order to fix a problem, you have to acknowledge that the problem exists. We have the data from our freedom-of-information request. Unless you are challenging that data, you need to be held accountable for the state of overcrowding in our hospitals and the pain that you are causing the people of this province.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

Minister?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: I appreciate the question from the minister of cuts, the same individual that, in 2014—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Just titles and ridings, please.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: —the same individual that, during the 2014 campaign, committed to finding $600 million annually in savings. In fact in the NDP platform—this is from the CBC—they were silent initially on exactly where that $600 million that the member opposite committed to finding, but “One broad hint emerged on the campaign trail ... when Kitchener–Waterloo NDP candidate Catherine Fife said the NDP’s new accountability minister would look to find efficiencies in the health care and post-secondary education sectors.”

In fact, she went on to say, “I would go first to health.”

Had they won in 2014, we would have seen $600 million in health care cuts in 2014, $600 million in cuts in 2015, $600 million in cuts in 2016 and so on.

Nurse practitioners

Mr. Arthur Potts: My question is to the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care. Let me just say what an effective job he is doing answering so many questions in the House today and putting to rest some of these rumours from the other side.

Speaker, we all know that providing Ontarians with timely access to the care they need, whether it’s at home, in their community or in one of our outstanding hospitals, is of the utmost importance to our government and certainly to me as the member for Beaches–East York.

Over the past 14 years, our health system has improved tremendously. We’ve increased our investments in health care each and every year, allowing us to treat more patients and to provide the highest quality of care. We are so fortunate in Ontario to have the exceptional health care providers that we do, including over 3,100 nurse practitioners. In many community health hubs, such as the East End Community Health Centre in my riding of Beaches–East York, nurse practitioners are providing important functions.

Can the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care share with us the positive impact that nurse practitioners are having on the health care system in Ontario?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: I want to thank the member for Beaches–East York for this important question. First of all, I want to welcome and thank our nurse practitioners across this province, who are doing an absolutely exceptional job in providing the highest-quality health care.

We introduced the first nurse practitioner-led clinic. There are now 25 of them in the province. They’re seeing 55,000 patients. We’ve measured, together with our nurse practitioners, outcomes and patient satisfaction. We’re finding that patient satisfaction and outcomes of our nurse practitioners in those nurse practitioner-led clinics are through the roof. Patients love them, and the outcomes are absolutely fantastic.

We’re so committed to our nurse practitioners, wherever they may practise. That may be in our hospitals—

Mr. Gilles Bisson: How about some hospital beds so they can take care of their patients, or long-term-care beds?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: —it may be in our nurse practitioner-led clinics. Many of them work in positions of leadership, Mr. Speaker—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Timmins–James Bay is warned. If he gives me a rebuttal, he’ll regret it.

Carry on.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: We know how crucial they are to this province in providing that highest-quality health care. We’re committed to continuing to work with them. I’ll be happy, in the supplementary, to speak more in terms of some of the actions we’re taking to further support them.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary.

Mr. Arthur Potts: Today, we are celebrating the very first Nurse Practitioner Week in Ontario, and I, too, would like to welcome all the nurse practitioners who are here today.

We know that, every day, nurse practitioners care for people with mental health and addiction issues, acute and chronic pain issues, and people who require palliative care and end-of-life care. They are a crucial aspect of community care and also across hospitals and long-term-care facilities.

A decade ago, as the minister mentioned, the first nurse practitioner-led clinic was opened in Sudbury. In Dorset, Ontario, where my mother has a cottage, a nurse practitioner station opened nearly two years ago, and I tell you that it serves that community extremely well. And just last month, the Premier was up in York region to announce a new facility in Georgina also being led by nurse practitioners. We now have 25 nurse practitioner-led clinics across the province, and Ontario has been the first jurisdiction to adopt this fantastic model.

Can the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care please inform the House of the investments we’ve made in nurse practitioner-led clinics?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: We know how crucial nurse practitioners are to this province. We’re working with them. An example of that is that we’ve expanded their scope of practice to enable them to prescribe controlled drugs and substances. This is critically important for a myriad of reasons, not the least of which is that, in the small towns and remote areas, they’re often the only health care and the best health care that’s available. To give them that opportunity to address some of the needs of their patients is so important.

We’re also expanding nurse practitioner-led clinics. The Premier recently—last month, I believe—was at the Georgina Nurse Practitioner-Led Clinic, announcing funding there for a permanent clinic to replace the existing building with a brand new facility that will serve more than 3,000 patients. I believe it was last week that the member from Thunder Bay–Atikokan, as well, was announcing an expansion of the Lakehead Nurse Practitioner-Led Clinic in that jurisdiction,

We’re finding every way that we can to recognize just how critical they are to the delivery of health care in this province.

Sexual assault training

Ms. Laurie Scott: My question is to the Attorney General. This afternoon, the Legislature will be debating my private member’s bill, the Mandatory Sexual Assault Law Training for Judicial Officers Act. As the minister knows, I’ve been pushing this issue for quite some time. The minister has told me before, in this House, that he is satisfied with the status quo. Unfortunately, the status quo does not go far enough.

A few months ago, I was copied on a letter of support for my bill from the Elementary Teachers’ Federation of Ontario which was addressed to the Attorney General. The letter said that, since the training the minister announced “won’t be mandatory for current provincial judges, victims of sexual assault appearing before the provincial courts still run the risk of experiencing negative and damaging comments and rulings from the presiding justice.”

Will the government listen to the call from the Elementary Teachers’ Federation of Ontario and support Bill 120 this afternoon?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock, please. Be seated, please.

Attorney General.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: Let me be absolutely clear: Sexual assault is a very serious issue that demands attention from all levels of government and all our institutions. Supporting survivors is really important to me because I know, as they move through the justice system, that these processes have the potential to re-traumatize the victims, and we want to do everything we can to ensure that that does not happen.

That’s why we have dedicated legal supports. That’s why we have specially trained crowns and free legal advice for survivors of sexual assault. That is why I’m also pleased—as I have said before—that the Chief Justice of the Ontario Court of Justice has informed me that the court has expressly mandated that sexual assault education be mandatory for new judges. The education plan has been updated and is available on the Ontario Court of Justice website. I’m confident that the action that has been taken by the Chief Justice will serve to increase public confidence in our justice system.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary.

Ms. Laurie Scott: The only reason the government even did anything on this issue in the first place is because we brought it up. It’s not like it’s a new issue. Now it looks like the government treated this as a public relations problem that they just wanted to get rid of by hiding behind the argument of judicial independence. The bill doesn’t tell them what form this training should take or how they should deliver it. That’s up to the judges.

The fact is that mandatory training will build trust in our justice system that is lacking as a result of so many incidents reported in the media. Since the minister doesn’t look like he’s going to be supporting this bill, what is he going to tell survivors who have been begging for this change?

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: The Minister of the Status of Women.

Hon. Indira Naidoo-Harris: I want to thank the member opposite for this question. Sexual violence is a brutal and traumatic crime. The reality is that it’s far too widespread in our society and has a devastating and lasting impact on survivors and their families.

I want to commend the Chief Justice’s efforts in implementing mandatory sexual assault training for new judges. This is an important step. But I want you to know that our government has been working on this issue for some time. As a government, we have done a lot through our sexual violence and harassment action plan to change societal behaviours, because that is where the work has to start. Training is always an important step, and that’s why we’ve invested $1.7 million into training for front-line professionals.

We are taking action across government through It’s Never Okay: An Action Plan to Stop Sexual Violence and Harassment, which we brought into effect in 2015. We have been working on this issue for many years.

Labour dispute

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is for the Premier. We’ve just learned that college faculty have said no to a contract offer that they were forced to vote on this week. This strike is now in its fifth week, and students and faculty alike have been begging the Premier to bring stability to the college system by acting to ensure a negotiated settlement between college faculty and the College Employer Council.

The Liberal government laid the foundation for this strike by severely underfunding colleges, providing the lowest per student college funding of any province in Canada. Now they have spent five weeks sitting on the sidelines, hoping that everything will work out.

Why is the Premier refusing to act to ensure a negotiated settlement that is fair for faculty and is focused on delivering the high-quality education that students paid for and that students deserve?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I would expect that the leader of the third party would actually understand the collective bargaining process and would know full well that we have taken an appropriate role. We have not been sitting on our hands. There are mediators from the government who have been involved. I want to read to the Legislature and the people of Ontario the statement that I have sent out in the wake of this vote:

“Students have been in the middle of this strike for too long and it’s not fair. This afternoon I will be meeting,” along with the Minister of Advanced Education and Skills Development, “with the bargaining unit chairs of the College Employer Council ... and OPSEU CAAT-A to discuss how we can resolve this situation immediately and get students back to class where they belong. We are looking at all of our options, but I am hopeful that an agreement to return students to class immediately can be reached by the parties.”

The minister and I will be meeting with the parties this afternoon.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Speaker, today’s vote puts us right back where we were on our October 16, except that students have lost five full weeks of time in classroom and have no idea when they will be getting back to school. No amount of hardship funding is going to help students—some of whom are experiencing extreme mental health distress—who see a government that doesn’t seem to care about them or their future. Promises about semesters never being lost—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The Minister of Economic Development and Growth is warned.

Please continue.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Promises about semesters never being lost do nothing to reassure students who are more concerned about the content that they will miss as opposed to the course credit. Surely the Premier actually has a plan, as opposed to just a little discussion. Surely she has a plan about how she is going to ensure that a fair deal is reached and support students through this process. I’m going to ask the Premier straight up: What is the plan to make sure a fair settlement is reached and students are back in the classroom?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

Premier.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Mr. Speaker, I will say again to the leader of the third party that she knows or should know full well that the next step at this point is for us to bring together the parties and give them the opportunity to come to an agreement. I support the collective bargaining process—I would have thought that the leader of the third party would also support the collective bargaining process, Mr. Speaker—so I’m very hopeful that the parties will understand that this has been a very long ordeal for students and for faculty, that they all want to be back in the classroom, and that we need those students back in the classroom immediately.

The minister and I will meet with the parties this afternoon and we will put it to them that we hope that they will be able to come to an agreement very quickly so that the students and the faculty will be back in the classroom immediately.

Indigenous economic development

M me Nathalie Des Rosiers: Monsieur le Président, ma question est pour le ministre des Relations avec les Autochtones et de la Réconciliation.

I believe, like many Ontarians, that reconciliation with indigenous communities is crucial for the future of the province and that it must involve participation by the indigenous communities in the resource economy, because that’s where there’s meaningful employment and that’s where there’s good business opportunities for the indigenous communities. I know that our government is committed to working with indigenous partners to ensure that they can participate in the resource sectors such as mining, green energy and forestry.

Minister, can you explain how the Ontario government is working to ensure the participation of indigenous communities and that they will share the benefit of resource development throughout the province?

Hon. David Zimmer: I thank the member for Ottawa–Vanier for that question.

Speaker, our government is committed to ensuring that indigenous peoples share in the benefits of resource development. We are pleased with the progress to date on our dialogue with indigenous partners on the whole issue of sharing the benefits of resource development.

The Journey Together: Ontario’s Commitment to Reconciliation with Indigenous Peoples and our historic political accord with the Chiefs of Ontario both include a commitment to work with indigenous peoples on the shared priority of resource benefit sharing.

Throughout the fall of 2017, the ministries have had very productive and respectful discussions on resource revenue-sharing. We look forward to continuing this dialogue to negotiate resource revenue-sharing for forestry, stumpage, mining tax, royalties and related matters.

The support that we’ve received from our indigenous partners in resolving this issue stems from programs like our $650-million Aboriginal Loan Guarantee Program—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Supplementary.

M me Nathalie Des Rosiers: I want to thank the minister for his response and also for his leadership in leading our much-needed reconciliation efforts throughout the province.

It is my understanding that the ministry is conducting a pilot project of revenue-sharing in the forestry sector. As we know, the forestry sector is very important to Ontario, and I believe resource revenue-sharing is important in that sector particularly because of its ongoing close relationships with indigenous communities in the localities.

Can the minister explain the status of this resource revenue-sharing in the forestry sector?

Hon. David Zimmer: Minister of Natural Resources and Forestry.

Hon. Kathryn McGarry: Thank you to the member from Ottawa–Vanier for the supplementary.

My ministry conducted a successful forestry pilot in resource revenue-sharing. As the Minister of Indigenous Relations strongly affirmed, Ontario believes the path to reconciliation is through strengthening relationships with indigenous peoples.

Building on the success of the forestry resource revenue-sharing pilot, I can inform you that throughout this fall, both my ministry and the Ministry of Northern Development and Mines have had productive and respectful discussions with First Nations and look forward to continuing discussions with our partners on resource revenue-sharing in the mining and forestry resource sectors.

I’m particularly pleased that Ontario is working with First Nation partners with a view to negotiating resource revenue-sharing arrangements for forestry stumpage, mining tax and royalties. Our ministries continue efforts to enhance indigenous voices within development opportunities specific to mining and forestry.

Hospital funding

Mr. Jim Wilson: My question is to the Premier, and I appreciate the Premier taking this question.

In June of this year, the House unanimously approved my private member’s resolution asking for the immediate release of planning grants for the hospital redevelopments in Collingwood and Alliston. It has now been more than six months since my resolution was passed, and nothing has happened. No approvals have been given by this government.

Mr. Speaker, to the Premier: When will this government follow through and release the money to allow these critically important projects to move forward to the next stages of planning?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I know the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care is going to want to speak to the specifics of this question, but as I understand it, there is a conversation that’s ongoing with the ministry about the go-forward and the next steps. I look forward to us working with the communities to make sure that these plans can move forward.

But I know, as I said, that the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care will want to give the member the specifics.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Jim Wilson: Back to the Premier: I appreciate it. I’d like to hear from the minister, because this has been going on for quite a long time—a couple of years now; three years.

The House did pass it. The Parliament had spoken six months ago. Both hospitals have spent well over $1.5 million of their own front-line health care money to do the planning so far. The minister has been good and the LHIN has been good to encourage us to keep moving forward, but you haven’t flowed any money, and it could be up to $12 million each to get through the five planning stages of the hospitals. It’s going to take years. We understand that. We’d like to get on with the work.

I’d like to hear from the minister.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Health and Long-Term Care.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: I appreciate the question. The ministry is working closely with the LHIN as well as with the hospital involved. The member opposite has been a strong advocate for this hospital and others in and around his riding.

The ministry is currently reviewing planning grants. We anticipate that a decision will be taken very soon. I think we’re all anxious to see some progress with regard to this hospital. If the member opposite wanted to meet with ministry officials to get a better sense of where things are at, I would be happy to arrange that.

Labour dispute

M me France Gélinas: My question is for the Premier.

The workers at the Sudbury Counselling Centre have been on strike for a month now. Nine of the 13 counselling programs they offer are unique; that is, they are only available at the Sudbury Counselling Centre. For example, people who need to attend the Partner Assault Response Program are at risk of breaching their bail conditions and being sent to jail because they cannot attend the counselling sessions that the court has mandated them to attend.

What is the Premier doing to help bring those workers back and to help bring those services back to my community?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Labour.

Hon. Kevin Daniel Flynn: Thank you very much to the honourable member for that very, very important question. As I say when I rise in the House, when it comes to labour relations in the province of Ontario, we have a very good track record. Business, labour, non-profit groups, funding organizations—when they bring their best to the negotiating table, settlements are reached in over 98% of those circumstances.

From time to time, that agreement is not reached as quickly as we’d like. As I say, at the Ministry of Labour, I think this province is blessed with some of the best mediators going through a conciliation process or a mediation process. But at the end of the day, Speaker, even though bargaining is tough—it’s tough by nature—the best agreements are reached when both parties come to the table and bring their best. I would urge the sides in this to do exactly that.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

M me France Gélinas: It’s not only the partner assault program that is not going on. Right now, little kids who need to be prepared to go to court don’t have the support that they need.

People who have been charged with driving under the influence often have to attend the Back on Track counselling program that is only available at Sudbury Counselling Centre. Speaker, in Nickel Belt, getting your driver’s licence back is a matter of great importance. We don’t have public transit. People need to get their driver’s licence back, yet none of those programs are available to us. None of those programs have been available for the last month, and people are struggling.

I’m asking the Premier: What is she going to do to make sure that people have access to those programs, that those counsellors go back to work and that this labour dispute gets resolved?

Hon. Kevin Daniel Flynn: I appreciate the concern from the member opposite, Speaker. I think any one of us understands how much our constituents rely on the types of services that she is outlining.

The process is governed under a labour relations regime in the province that works, as I said, the vast majority of the time. I understand that there are circumstances from time to time where the parties can’t come to an agreement as quickly as they should. As much as we respect the collective bargaining process, we try to assist that process. If there’s a way of bringing the sides together, the mediators will do that. They will urge them back to the table. They will guide them back to the table in some circumstances.

Given the importance of these services to the people of Sudbury and the surrounding area, I would urge both sides to come back to the table, get this sorted out and continue on serving the people of Sudbury.

Research and innovation

Ms. Ann Hoggarth: My question is for the Minister of Transportation. Ontario has never been more of a leader in cutting-edge technologies than we are today. One sector where we especially stand out is AVs, or autonomous vehicles. In January 2016, Ontario paved the way by becoming the first jurisdiction in Canada to have a pilot through which entities can test AVs on public roads. This pilot has proven to be a real success. There are now seven different entities, from universities to leaders in the automotive sector, that are participating in the pilot.

But our government refused to be complacent. We know that to continue to lead, we must continue to innovate. Speaker, I am aware that last week, the Premier made an important announcement about our next step to advance AV technology in our province. Would the minister please provide the members of this House with more information on that announcement?

Hon. Steven Del Duca: I thank the member from Barrie for her question and for her advocacy on behalf of her community.

In our 2017 budget, we committed a historic $80 million over five years towards an autonomous vehicle innovation network. As part of this investment, Stratford, Ontario, will become home to a new demonstration zone where small and medium-sized companies can go to test these tech