Manitoba Hansard — Sitting 10B (41st Legislature, 4th Session)

41-4-10b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Fourth Session – Forty-First Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Myrna Driedger Speaker Vol. LXXII No. 10B - 1:30 p.m., Tuesday, December 4, 2018 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-First Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLUM, James Fort Garry-Riverview NDP ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley NDP BINDLE, Kelly Thompson PC CLARKE, Eileen, Hon. Agassiz PC COX, Cathy, Hon. River East PC CULLEN, Cliff, Hon. Spruce Woods PC CURRY, Nic Kildonan PC DRIEDGER, Myrna, Hon. Charleswood PC EICHLER, Ralph, Hon. Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FIELDING, Scott, Hon. Kirkfield Park PC FLETCHER, Steven, Hon. Assiniboia Man. FONTAINE, Nahanni St. Johns NDP FRIESEN, Cameron, Hon. Morden-Winkler PC GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib.

GOERTZEN, Kelvin, Hon. Steinbach PC GRAYDON, Clifford Emerson Ind. GUILLEMARD, Sarah Fort Richmond PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC ISLEIFSON, Len Brandon East PC JOHNSON, Derek Interlake PC JOHNSTON, Scott St. James PC KINEW, Wab Fort Rouge NDP KLASSEN, Judy Kewatinook Lib. LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAGIMODIERE, Alan Selkirk PC LAMONT, Dougald St. Boniface Lib. LAMOUREUX, Cindy Burrows Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas NDP LINDSEY, Tom Flin Flon NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Flor Logan NDP MARCELINO, Ted Tyndall Park NDP MARTIN, Shannon Morris PC MAYER, Colleen, Hon. St.

Vital PC MICHALESKI, Brad Dauphin PC MICKLEFIELD, Andrew Rossmere PC MORLEY-LECOMTE, Janice Seine River PC NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC PALLISTER, Brian, Hon. Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine, Hon. Midland PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Arthur-Virden PC REYES, Jon St. Norbert PC SARAN, Mohinder The Maples Ind. SCHULER, Ron, Hon. St. Paul PC SMITH, Andrew Southdale PC SMITH, Bernadette Point Douglas NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Verendrye PC SQUIRES, Rochelle, Hon. Riel PC STEFANSON, Heather, Hon. Tuxedo PC SWAN, Andrew Minto NDP TEITSMA, James Radisson PC WHARTON, Jeff, Hon.

Gimli PC WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC YAKIMOSKI, Blair Transcona PC

353 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Tuesday, December 4, 2018 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Madam Speaker: Good afternoon everybody. Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 6–The Statutes Correction and Minor Amendments Act, 2018 Hon. Cliff Cullen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I move, seconded by the Minister of Health, that Bill 6, The Statutes Correction and Minor Amendments Act, 2018, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Cullen: I am happy to rise today in the House to introduce Bill 6, the statutes correction and minor amendments act.

This bill is a long -standing tradition in the Manitoba Legislative Assembly. Each year, SCAMAA shows our respect for the rule of law by correcting various typographical, numbering and minor drafting and translation errors identified by the hard -working legislative drafters in the Legislative Counsel division. This bill also contains minor amendments to a variety of acts. Madam Speaker, I look forward to quick passage of this legislation by members of the House.

Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Bill 5–The Mental Health Amendment and Personal Health Information Amendment Act Hon. Cameron Friesen (Minister of Health, Seniors and Active Living): I move, seconded by the Minister of Justice , that Bill 5, The Mental Health Amendment and Personal Health Information Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la santé mentale et la

Loi sur les renseignements médicaux personnels, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr.

Friesen: This bill will amend The Mental Health Act to enable the disclosure by the medical director of a psychiatric facility of information from a patient's clinical record maintained in the psychiatric facility if the medical director reasonably believes this will be necessary to prevent or lessen a serious risk of harm to the mental or physical health of the patient or another person, and it will also amend The Personal Health Information Act to enable disclosure of personal health information by a trustee, as defined under the act, if the trustee reasonably believes the disclosure to be necessary to prevent or lessen a risk of serious harm to the health or safety of the individual or to the public or to public safety.

The amendments are to address concerns that the legislation has prevented health -care providers from notifying an individual's family members or support network of information that could have prevented tragedies, such as a person taking their own life after being discharged from a health-care facility, while still respecting the autonomy and privacy rights of the individual to the fullest extent possible. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Bill 210–The Insurance Amendment Act Hon.

Steven Fletcher (Assiniboia): I move, seconded by the member from River Heights, that Bill 210, The Insurance Amendment Act, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Fletcher: This bill is designed to plug a potential loophole in the insurance law. There's been a significant change from a–from–in the Criminal Code regarding medical assistance in dying, and this bill is designed to ens ure that anyone who uses medical assistance in dying is not in any way denied any benefits or their estates denied compensation, such as life insurance.

If they were to use MAID right now, it could be plausible that it could be considered as suicide, for example, and that is not the intent of the federal legislation, and I'm sure it's not the intent of the provincial legislation, but who knows what the intent of an insurance company is. So this just clears it up. Thank you. Madam Speaker: Is it the plea sure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed]

354 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 4, 2018 Bill 211–The Brookside Cemetery Recognition Act Hon. Steven Fletcher (Assiniboia): I move, seconded by the member from Burrows–I–pardon–seconded by the member from River Heights, that Bill 211, The Brookside Cemetery Recognition Act, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Fletcher: This is a bill, in part, in reaction to a piece of legislation that was passed by the federal government that I was a part of and the Premier (Mr.

Pallister) was a part of that recognized a national cemetery in Ottawa, which is very –it's well enough, but there are other very significant cemeteries across Canada perhaps of even greater historic importance. This bill, which is now being introduced a third time, is to recognize, from a Manitoba perspective, that there are great Canadians buried all across the country just not in Ottawa.

And I think this would also bring attention to the unbelievable life histories of the people buried in Brookside Cemetery, which is one of the oldest cemeteries in Canada, predates the city of Winnipeg and has many heroes who we know and who we don't know. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Bill 216–The Conflict of Interest Act Hon. Steven Fletcher (Assiniboia): I move, seconded by the member from River Heights, that Bill 216, The Conflict of Interest Act, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Fletcher: This is the third time I have introduced this bill.

When I introduced it the first time, I described the conflict of interest legislation in Manitoba as woefully inadequate, and since then, the Conflict of Interest Commissioner has brought forward 83 recommendations to improve our legislation. The government did promise, after a resolution, to do something about conflict of interest this fall. They haven't. I introduced this bill to help create a framework to deal with conflicts of interest in Manitoba when it comes to government MLAs. And again, nothing has been done.

We have the worst legislation in the country, perhaps in the Western world and it needs to be dealt with, and the government refuses to do it, so we'll do it on this side of the House. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of t he House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Committee reports? Tabling of reports? Ministerial statements? MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Winnipeg Lost Dog Alert Hon.

Heather Stefanson (Minister of Families): Last month, after having found a lost dog on my way home from the Legislature, I was introduced to an amazing organization whose mission it is to assist in reuniting lost dogs with their owners. The Winnipeg Lost Dog Alert, the WLDA, was founded in 2011 by a man who was searching for a lost dog and thought there had to be a better way to communicate and to organize the search for lost dogs, thus the creation of the WLDA Facebook page.

The Facebook page serves as a central place to post information on lost dogs in Winnipeg and surrounding areas, to co -ordinate the search for lost dogs, to provide updates on the status thereof and to connect owners with the person who finds their pet. * (13:40) The WLDA site has a dedicated team of followers who volunteer time and resources to give needed support to people who have lost their dog as well as to provide tips and ideas of what to do if they have lost or found a dog. These volunteers not only provide information but also provide boots -on-the-ground support in searches.

In my situation, it was an incredibly short time that the dog, Coco, I had found was reunited with his owner after posting information on the Facebook page. To see how the system works, please visit www.winnipeglostdogalert.com. Today, I'm honoured to have as my guests in the gallery WLDA founder Greg Mitchell; events director William Trefry; administrators Janet Jones and Cheryl Coleman; as well as my brother -in-law Gord Gage, who assisted me that night by introducing me to the WLDA page.

And I’d also recognize –I'd like to recognize one other integral person who was unable to be here with us today, the WLDA president, Kim Zebiere. Madam Speaker, I ask that all members rise and join me in recognizing this incredible group of individuals who are so dedicated to assisting dog owners find their missing pets.

December 4, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 355 Thank you, Madam Speaker. Indigenous Women Politicians Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): Indigenous women are the most courageous and dedicated in our nations, communities, families and, indeed, all spheres of our peoples' lives. It was only three years ago this House saw the election of the first-ever First Nation woman with the member for The Pas (Ms. Lathlin). Since then three more First Nation women have claimed our seats in this Chamber with the election of the member for Ke watinook (Ms. Klassen), the member for Point Douglas (Mrs.

Smith) and myself, the member for St. Johns. Our elections are but one form of decolonizing acts of reclamation which reflect indigenous women's resistance, whether through elected leadership, grassroots movements, community organizing, social -service delivery or knowledge transfer. More and more indigenous women see our narratives, struggles and strengths reflected in this very House, which typically is the preserve of only men.

So you ca n imagine our excitement at recent US midterm elections with the election of Sharice Davids and Deb Haaland –the first cohort of Native American women elected to Congress, and Ruth Buffalo, state representative for North Dakota. As indigenous women poli ticians we bring not only our individual selves to seats of power, but shoulder hundreds of years oppression, revealed in epidemic levels of violence perpetrated against our bodies, seen in the issue of missing and murdered indigenous women and girls.

But we also bring with us the resilience and strength of all of our ancestors who came before us, guiding our work and all those who will precede us. So to our sister congresswomen and state representatives, know that your election wins are our election wins, standing together in history and solidarity, and as you begin your new journeys, our hearts were filled with pride as you –as we send you our love and strength. Congratulations. Melvin Klassen Mr.

Cliff Graydon (Emerson): Madam Speaker, I rise in the House today to celebrate the achievements of Melvin Klassen, a resident of Altona community, and serving others is something that is very important to Mr. Klassen, who's dedicated many years of his life to public service. Melvin Klassen and his wife Margaret were school instructors and he held administrative positions in Altona area for 30 years before retiring in 1996. Melvin has served a credit union for many years, both locally and provincially, as a vice-president of Cred it Union Central of Manitoba.

He was also appointed to the credit union–Deposit Guarantee Corporation Board of Directors by the provincial government in 2001. He was elected to the position of Central District Urban Director of the Association of Manitoba Municipalities Board of Directors in November of 2006. Melvin Klassen also spent two decades serving in the political arena. First elected to the Altona Town Council in 1998, Melvin has served as a mayor since 2002. In 2006 municipal election he was re -elected by acclamation. In 2010 he was elected, and in 2014 he was once again re-elected by acclamation, retiring in the fall of 2018.

During his time as mayor, Melvin was instrumental in organizing Altona's minor baseball program, along with their senior slo -pitch program. Access Field in Altona officially opened in 2015, with grandstand seats and infield lights allowing for evening ball games. A great addition to the community under Melvin's tenure was the mayor–included the Gallery in the Park, an o utdoor sculpture garden, which has positioned Altona as a designation for tourists and art enthusiasts alike and will leave a lasting legacy of appreciation of art and culture in southern Manitoba.

Working together with the RM of Rhineland and sharing se rvices with them has been a good partnership. The $12-million lagoon project has been a big achievement– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. An Honourable Member: Leave. Madam Speaker: Is there leave to allow the member to complete his statement? [Agreed]

356 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 4, 2018 Mr. Graydon: He is proud of the council's ability to work with federal and provincial governments to get things done. Other accomplishments include: upgraded playground in the park, trail system, construction and hard surfacing in many Altona streets. Melvin and Margaret have been married for 52 years. They raised three children in Altona, now enjoy spending time with their grandchildren. I'd like to congratulate Melvin on his many accolades and thank him for his selflessness that he has demonstrated in serving the public.

His first accolade– final accolade was being presented at –an Honourary Life Membership for his work with the Association of Manitoba Municipalities. Thank you. Calvin Christian School Mr. Andrew Micklefield (Rossmere): In the months leading up to the previous election I spent my evenings knocking on doors, but my daytimes were often spent substitute teaching in area schools. One such school was Calvin Christian School, and so I was delighted today when I saw students from that school visiting the Legislature.

My guests for this PMS couldn't make it, so I thought I'd do a quick swap and give a shout-out to my friends from Calvin Christian School. I had the privilege of teaching them on numerous occasions. We developed quite a rapport. They're a wonderful group of students. They were professional; they were polite; they were a pleasure to teach. I wouldn't be surprised, Madam Speaker, if one day, one or two of them end up on the floor of this Chamber or possibly in Ottawa or maybe city hall. Madam Speaker, Calvin Christian's been around for over 50 years serving the northeast corner of Winnipeg.

It's one of about 50 MFIS schools, and many members of this Chamber will recall that last week the Manitoba Federation of Independent Schools came to this Legislature to talk about their own 50-member organization serving over 14,000 students. Madam Speaker, it's a great honour to have friends with us here today and I invite all members to join me in welcoming them to the Manitoba Legislature. Corydon Community Centre Walking Group Hon.

Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Madam Speaker, since 2007 the Central Corydon Community Centre Walking Group has met every Monday and Thursday to walk at one of Winnipeg's scenic sites, including Kildonan Park, Assiniboine Park, Churchill Drive, Henteleff Park, Silver Avenue walk, Fort Whyte Centre, Bunn's Creek, Assiniboine Forest and the south Seine River. The last walk, yesterday, had 29 people. Starting at 9:30, this amazing group walks year-round, whether the sun is shining or the rain or snow are falling.

Members go at their own speed, from fast to not so fast, walking for about an hour and then afterward socializing with a hot or a cold drink. Come out and join the group. Over the years more than 150 different people have come. As Chuck says, like the air we breathe, it's free. I encourage other MLAs to start groups in their area. The Central Corydon Community Centre Walking Group began after I met Chuck Cruden at an event in the Crescentwood community club.

With the leadership of Chuck Cruden and Bob Kury, past president of the River Heights Community Centre, who was also present, the River Heights Community Centre walking group was born. After the amalgamation of three co mmunity centres it became the Central Corydon Community Centre Walking Group. The community centre continues to be a strong supporter. Now in its 12th year, there have been changes over time. One of their favourite spots was The Forks. Sadly, with increased parking costs and other changes they no longer go to The Forks as it's not as welcoming as it used to be.

Information and walking schedules are available at the Central Corydon Community Centre–phone: 204-488-7000–or on their website at www.corydoncc.com. I recognize today Chuck Cruden and other walkers who are here in the gallery. I request leave to have all the names of those present recorded in Hansard. * (13:50) Madam Speaker: Is there leave to include the names of the guests in Hansard? [Agreed] Corydon Community Centre Walking Group members: Fay Croal, Stan Croal, Chuck Cruden, Eileen Cruden, Milt From, Miriam Greene, Iris Reimer, Victoria Shaw, Shirley Ann Simkulak, Jim Stibbard.

December 4, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 357 Introduction of Guests Madam Speaker: Prior to oral que stions, we have some guests in the gallery that I would like to introduce to you. We have seated in the public gallery, from Calvin Christian collegiate, 33 grade 11 students under the direction of Kat Skalny and Alicia Thiessen, and this group is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Transcona (Mr. Yakimoski). On behalf of all honourable members here, we welcome you to the Manitoba Legislature. ORAL QUESTIONS Cost of Living in Manitoba Affordability Concerns Mr.

Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Madam Speaker, things are getting more and more difficult for people in the province of Manitoba under this government: costs are rising, bills continue to go up, but there's less and less support from this government. MPI rat es are going up 1.8 per cent next year. This will mean that MPI rates will have increased by over 8 per cent under this Premier, Madam Speaker, and this is only what the PUB permitted. MPI actually wanted to increase rates be even more–the third year in a row rates have increased.

Now, the Premier should be keeping rates affordable for families and businesses; he's failing. One of the first acts of this Premier was to rip up legislation that guaranteed that Manitobans would have the lowest cost bundle of vehicle insurance, home heating and electricity rates in Canada. MPI is profitable and should be keeping rates affordable. Why is this Premier making life harder for everyday families? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): Well, I simply can't accept the

preamble from the member who leads a party which never missed an opportunity to take money off the kitchen tables of Manitobans, which raised the fees for every Manitoban who wished to license a car. So this lack of concern historically among the previous government's members is not a good indication of their sincerity in respect of making life more affordable for Manitobans. What is is the actions we have taken, Madam Speaker, to eliminate bracket creep, for example, so that inflation wouldn't erode the purchasing power of seniors in our province who are–many of whom must live on a fixed income.

These are the kinds of actions that demonstrate the sincerity of our effort. I would let the NDP's record speak for itself, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: They've done nothing, Madam Speaker. MPI rates are going up, and the increase in hydro rates apparently wasn't enough for this Premier la st year. That rate increase wasn't steep enough for this Premier.

That's why he–after his first board walked out on him and told him that he wasn't doing the job of premier, that the new board that he brought in–after a couple of tries, mind you–the new board that he brought in decided, at his order, at his discretion, to raise hydro rates again, resulting in ever -increasing bills for the average family here in Manitoba. Now, the previous mandate of Hydro was to keep bills affordable and to do it in an environmentally conscious way. But, of course, under this Premier, they changed the terms of reference.

They changed the mission for Hydro so it's no longer about affordability; it's no longer about the environment. Now we get these big increases on hydro bills. Why is the Premier telling Manitoba Hydro they should no longer keep bills affordable for families? Mr. Pallister: I appreciate any question from a member of the New Democratic Party on the topic of affordability for Manitobans.

Madam Speaker, the previous administration promised Manitobans–they walked to their–the doors of Manitoba homes, they knocked on the doors and they actually looked people right in the eye and said, we promise that we won't raise your taxes, and then they raised the taxes on beer and benefits, cars and cottages, haircuts, home insurance; and then they went further the year after and actually raised the PST after promising they wouldn't do that either. So that record is not an enviable one.

Under our government Manitobans hav e seen some of the largest increases in take-home pay in the country over other provinces, some of the best reductions–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Pallister: And I know they don't like it, Madam Speaker–[interjection]

358 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 4, 2018 Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Pallister: –and they can laugh all they want. But Manitobans are laughing with glee, joy and satisfaction at the progress this government is making. The fact is our wait times are dropping; other provinces' wait times are going up. Our ambulance fees are dropping– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr.

Kinew: Madam Speaker, costs in this province keep going up, and all the Premier does is stand next to the big corporations and cheerlead them on, saying, keep hiking those bills. We know that cost of food and groceries is going to increase by some $400 this ye ar. We know that MPI bills and hydro bills are increasing under this Premier's watch, and that's even after this Premier made moves like increasing tuition and cancelling a tax rebate for graduates who stay in the province after post-secondary education –and even that –after he cancelled the tax rebate for seniors, Madam Speaker.

This Premier, he won't even commit to taking action to make cellphone bills cheaper for Manitobans. It seems like a total no-brainer. There's a lot of money for the average family , but the Premier has decided maybe those families don't need it–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: Will the Premier stop making life less affordable for families and we –will he commit to making it more affordable for everybody in Manitoba? Mr. Pallister: Appreciate the member referring in his

preamble to no-brainer; that was a no-brainer question, Madam Speaker. Because the fact is the NDP have raided the pocketbooks of Manitobans for years. Now they want to support a national carbon tax on every home in the country and Manitobans–according to the NDP–should pay more to start up the car. They should pay more to heat their home. They should pay more in taxes because that's what the NDP want, but that's not, Madam Speaker, what we want because we know that's not what Manitobans want. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a new question.

Emergency Room Services Request to Stop Closures Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Madam Speaker, we say Mani tobans should pay less for their cellphone bills, they should pay less for the MPI bills and they should pay less for their hydro bills. The only thing we want to see more of is more emergency rooms in places like northeast Winnipeg. Now, again, the memb er for Rossmere (Mr. Micklefield) missed an opportunity to stand in the House today and condemn this Premier's failing plan to close emergency rooms in northeast Winnipeg.

Everybody knows that since this Premier– [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –started to close emergency rooms in the city of Winnipeg that wait times are on the increase. They're up 21 per cent since this Premier started to close–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –emergency rooms in the city of Winnipeg. Madam Speaker: I'm directing the table to stop the clock. There is a lot of heckling going on and there are students in the gallery and there are people watching, and I'm having increasing difficulty hearing the member ask his question.

So I would ask for members' co-operation, please, especially when we have students here and we have an ability to show how democracy actually takes place in action. Let's show them that it is done in a respectful manner. Mr. Kinew: So as I was saying, since October 2017, when they started closing emergency rooms, to October 2018 of this year, wait times are up 21 per cent. When will the Premier come to his senses and back off of this misguided plan to close emergency rooms in the city of Winnipeg? Hon.

Brian Pallister (Premier): The Canadian institute of health information will remain a better source of accurate data than the member opposite. The Canadian institute of health information reported last week that one province was reducing wait times: Manitoba.

December 4, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 359 Madam Speaker, while those wait times were lengthening under the previous government to record lengths they did nothing about it. We inherited a system that was broken; we're endeavouring to fix it; and it's time for the member to start cheering for Manitobans instead of himself. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: Well, the Premier ought to share with the House what the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority says has happened to wait times since he started to close emergency rooms.

Of course, he'll be forced to concede that wait times have gone up 21 per cent. That's according to the WRHA, Madam Speaker. Those are the facts. Now, the Premier refuses to listen to anybody when it comes to health care, and that's why the people of Grandview, Manitoba, have had to go outside of the province to hire their own out -of-province external consultant.

They say it's the only kind of language and the only evidence that this Premier understands or will listen to. * (14:00) We know that 18 rural ambulance stations are slated to be closed and that the evidence within the department does not match up with the announcement that has been made. Why is the government ignoring the evidence? Why did the people of Gr andview have to go out of province to hire their own consultants and why doesn't the Premier listen to the people of Manitoba when it comes to health care? Mr.

Pallister: Pretty obvious the member wants Manitobans to have longer wait times so he can score some political points, Madam Speaker. The problem is the real data doesn't fit with his thesis. Manitobans are benefiting from–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Pallister: –lower, shorter wait times. Manitobans are benefiting from lower ambulance fees. Manitobans are benefiting from shorter wait times for MRIs, from shorter wait times for PCHs. Manitobans are benefiting from a $5.3-million additional initiative to shorten wait times for hips and knees, as well.

Manitobans are benefiting from these changes, Madam Speaker. They know that. Manitobans are aware of the benefits and they're aware of the courage this government's demonstrated in addressing the problem the previous government ignored. Madam Speaker: Oh, the honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. My apologies. Mr. Kinew: Thank you, kindly, Madam Speaker. It's a sad day when a community like Grandview is forced to spend t heir own time and money and to go out of province to hire their own consultant to bring forward evidence that this Premier may listen to in the future.

Again, that's not listening. It's not listening to the voices of the people of Grandview, of the peopl e across Westman and the Parkland region who are saying that they don't want these ambulance stations to close. But, again, it shows that this Premier only listens to those high- priced consultants like KPMG or like Deloitte. We know that those are the ty pes of companies that he's turning to when it comes to this review of CancerCare, and we've been hearing over and over again from the people of northeast Winnipeg that they're not being listened to when it comes to the closure of the Concordia ER.

They want that plan scrapped. So will the Premier listen to the people of northeast Winnipeg on the cancellation of the Concordia ER? Will he listen to the people of Grandview when it comes to rolling back the plan to close their ambulance station, and will he listen to the people of Manitoba who say they don't want any more cuts to health care? Mr. Pallister: It's a myth, Madam Speaker, and $700 million proves it: $700 million of additional investment this year alone in health care is the furthest thing from a cut. That's $700 million more than the NDP ever invested in health care.

We're investing in solving the problems they created. We'll continue to do so. The member talks about listening to experts and, Madam Speaker, they commissioned the ambulance study which they then ignored. We're acting on the advice that was given to them which they did not have the courage to implement. They commissioned the Peachey report. They didn't act on it. They didn't do anything to make the system better, and now the membe r tries to score political points saying it's as bad as it was when the NDP were in.

360 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 4, 2018 Well, it isn't, Madam Speaker. We're fixing it. Winnipeg Police Board Civilian Oversite Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): We've raised serious concerns regarding civilian oversight of police forces in Winnipeg. The minister is unwilling to provide clear answers regarding what actions, if any, he will take to ensure that the IIU can do its job. We're concerned civilian oversight of police forces is diminishing. We've also raised concerns when the Winnipeg Police Board abandoned its use of force policy.

At the time the chairperson cited jurisdictional disagreement with the Winnipeg police force and the Manitoba Police Commission. Will the minister intervene to ensure that the Winnipeg Police Board has the authority to establish and maintain a use of policy–use of force policy? Hon. Cliff Cullen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): We've been very clear since the Throne Speech that we're going to review The Police Services Act. This will be a very comprehensive review.

The terms of reference for that review are being drafted as we speak, and we look forward to engaging Manitobans on that very comprehensive review of police services across Manitoba. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a supplementary question. Ms. Fontaine: Mary Jane Brownscombe will be leaving the Winnipeg Police Board at the end of December. She echoed our concern. The police board should be able to establish and maintain a use of force policy for Winnipeg's police force, and she voted against removing this policy.

Just like the IIU, it appears jurisdictional concerns are crowding out the powers of civilian oversight. The minister should see these disputes as an opportunity to clarify the role of civilian oversight and ensure that it has the authority needed to do its job. Will he do so today? Mr. Cullen: We certainly have confidence in the police officers, the police forces across Manitoba, to do their job in dealing with the public. We certainly have confidence in the Independent Investigation Unit. It is an independent investigation unit, and we have full confidence in the operations of that unit.

Madam Speaker, we have made the commitment. We are going to do a review of police services. Manitobans will have the opportunity to engage in that process. We know the NDP are upset because they didn't get the legislation correct. We have taken up the task. We will get that legislation correct. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a final supplementary. Ms. Fontaine: The Winnipeg Police Board has abandoned its use of force policy. The IIU is in dispute with police forces over its powers.

The minister has an opportunity to address the decline in civilian oversight occurring over the last six months under his watch. He can make it clear his intention is to ensure strong civilian oversight over our police forces and that he will use his powers to ensure that this happens. The minister either wants effective civilian oversight or he doesn't. So will he tell us which side is he on today? Mr. Cullen: Clearly, we as a government want an effective investigation process. We know Manitobans want an effective review process, an investigative process. We know the NDP did not create that framework.

That's why we made the commitment to engage with Manitobans. We will engage with police forces across the province to come up with proper solutions to legislation, and we will develop a proper framework for that in the very near future. B & L Foster Care Agency Number of Children in Care Ms. Amanda Lathlin (The Pas): Families deserve answers about their children when they are in care. They need to know their children are safe and protected. Yesterday the minister said 95 per cent of children in B & L's care had been spoken to.

That means the minister knows how many kids are in their care but is refusing to tell the public this information. The minister is hiding facts from the public, like when she first learned of the abuse of B & L. Will–we will continue to ask: How many of our children are currently in B & L's care and when did she first learn of the abuse there? Hon.

Heather Stefanson (Minister of Families): I believe we've answered these questions many, many times in the House, and I think what is very important for Manitobans and for the member opposite to understand is that we will always put the safety of our children in care first and the safety of children in Manitoba first.

December 4, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 361 That's why when we first learned of the allegations we took actions immediately, Madam Speaker, upon that. We put a review in place, and I'm pleased to report today that 100 per cent of those children have been visited as of noon today. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for The Pas, on a supplementary question. No New Placements Request Ms. Lathlin: The minister stopped new place ments while she conducts a so-called review of this agency, but the minister hasn't said what will happen once the remaining 5 per cent of these kids are contacted.

Staff at this agency are quoted saying that the agency dragged its heels big time and sat back and allowed abuse to happen. That's an admission from the directors of the agency itself. This minister needs to tell the House if she will ever place a new child in that agency's care. Will the minister commit that there will be no more new replacements at B & L agency? Mrs. Stefanson: In fact, we made that commitment the moment that we announced the review, Madam Speaker, so we have made that commitment.

And just to correct the record from the member's comments, it's been 100 per cent of those children that we have ensured are in –are safe in Manitoba. And I think–I just want to take this opportunity to thank the authorities, to thank the agencies, to thank all those social workers out there that are doing such an incredible job to ensure the sa fety of children in Manitoba. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for The Pas, on a final supplementary. Awareness of Abuse Allegations Ms. Lathlin: The only reason the public knows of the abuse these children suffered is because of the media.

It looks like the agency and the government simply ignored these issues, but it's never right to ignore the safety of kids, and families want to know their kids will be safe when they're in care. * (14:10) Will the minister have the courage to tell this House when she first knew of these allegations? Did she learn about them through the media, or did she know before and did not do anything? Mrs. Stefanson: I've said time and time again, Madam Speaker, that as soon as we were aware of the allegations, we took action to ensure the safety of all of those children and–B & L care.

Of course, we did not ignore this issue. We took action immediately upon learning of those allegations, and I'm just very, very thankful for all of those people that are involved: the authorities, the agencies, the social workers that have ensured and –met with those children one-on-one to ensure their safety, and that is the most important thing in this entire issue. HIV Prevention Medication Pharmacare Coverage Request Mr. Dougald Lamont (Leader of the Second Opposition): Yesterday the government quietly released its report on statistics on HIV in Manitoba from 2017.

The number of new cases is lower for a reason that is not very reassuring: that people in the past who were being tested were sometimes being counted twice. On page 7 of that report, which I table, the authors note that Manitoba Health's data is not as complete as the S eptember Manitoba HIV Program update, which I also table. That September document shows that 18 per cent of new infections are due to injection drug use. Two of the known risks of meth use are psychosis and sexual aggression, which both lead to increases in the spread of STIs and blood-borne illnesses.

In Manitoba syphilis rates have increased by 400 per cent, driven by meth, and doctors are warning that HIV could go up as well. There are HIV medications that can prevent the disease from spreading, but Manitoba is the only province in western Canada that doesn't cover it free of charge. Will this government expand harm reduction across Manitoba and prevent the spread of HIV by making this life-saving drug available for free? Hon. Cameron Friesen (Minister of Health, Seniors and Active Living): I thank you, Madam Speaker, for the opportunity to answer the question.

To be clear, in Manitoba we're still reviewing the PReP coverage as a potential intervention to prevent HIV infection. But to be clear, as other jurisdictions do post-exposure prophylaxis, Manitoba is at the same place as other provinces providing these drugs. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Second Opposition, on a supplementary question.

362 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 4, 2018 HIV Prevention Testing Routine Health Checkups Mr. Dougald Lamont (Leader of the Second Opposition): Just this week, the Public Health Agency of Canada sai d that one in Canadian –one in seven Canadians who have HIV don't know they have it. If people don't know they're infected, they obviously cannot take the steps they need to prevent HIV or keep themselves well. Here in Manitoba people are late getting diagnosed and late getting care.

The government's report said that while men are more likely to be infected than HIV with women, women are twice as likely to be tested, in part because women are routinely tested in Manitoba when they're pregnant. Experts have said we could treat more people and prevent further infection with routine HIV testing as part of health checkups. Will this government commit to catch HIV infection early to prevent further infections and keep people healthier by making HIV testing a routine part of health checkups for Manitobans? Hon.

Cameron Friesen (Minister of Health, Seniors and Active Living): Well, Madam Speaker, it's an important issue. I'm glad that the member is raising the issue, and it's why we continue to study the issue of whether–at this point in time, that it's time to extend the current accommodation and coverage that we have for pre-exposure prophylaxis in this province, as other jurisdictions are also doing. That, of course, has to be based on research. That has to b e based on evidence and data, and that is the work that is being undertaken.

Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Second Opposition, on a final supplementary. HIV and STI Infection Rates Public Access to Information Mr. Dougald Lamont (Leader of the Second Opposition): We all know there's a meth epidemic in Manitoba, and in August, the WRHA reported that there's been an outbreak of syphilis with more cases than in the three previous years combined. They reported that 30 per cent of the people who were infected were crystal meth users.

None of this information is available on Manitoba Health's website, and the HIV report just released says Manitoba's, quote, surveillance data storage management and analyses are going through a transition period. End quote. This transition is taking quite a while. The Manitoba Annual

Summary of Communi cable Diseases has not been updated since 2015, nearly three years ago, and monthly reports have not been updated since June 2017. There's no way for the public to access this information. Does the health–does the Minister of Health have access to this i nformation and, if so, will he make it public today? Hon. Cameron Friesen (Minister of Health, Seniors and Active Living): The Province of Manitoba is committed to continuous ongoing efforts when it comes to preventing and minimizing the impacts of STBBIs, including HIV and AIDS, in Manitoba. There are efforts under way right now.

Some of those have to do with provisions of starter medications for HIV post-exposure prophylaxis. I can tell that member that only recently the Province has updated its approach to these kits and has included Truvada and generic equivalents as one of the medications in its starter kits. The Province will continue to take action and we'll continue to study whether the–now is the time to make an additional step. Emergency Room Services Request to Stop Closures Mr. Andrew Swan (Minto): Madam Speaker, the Premier's (Mr.

Pallister) own wait times task force told the government not to proceed with further emergency room closures without significant increases in capacity in the r est of the system. The task force projects a 55 per cent increase in volume at St. Boniface Hospital if Concordia and Seven Oaks ERs close. But this government has not listened to that and instead it's full speed ahead. We now know the most critically ill patients will be redirected away from Concordia starting next week.

Even as the Premier ignores patients, families and communities, will he at least listen to his own task force and shelve plans to close more emergency rooms? Hon. Cameron Friesen (Minister of Health, Seniors and Active Living): The member for Minto continues to try to spread fear among the people of Winnipeg. Yesterday at the Provincial Clinical and Preventative Services Planning seminar, Rohan Hammett, who is a former deputy minister of health for New South Wales in Australia, presented, and he said this: that health systems must change, they must evolve; and he says that Manitoba is well prepared to

December 4, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 363 be able to transition to a stronger health- care system that will get better results for patients and provide more care. This is the journey that we are on in Manitoba. That member is on a journey of casting out a vision of fear. We are one–on one for better care for Manitobans. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Minto, on a supplementary question. Mr.

Swan: Madam Speaker, if putting quotes from the government's own wait times task force on the record and if reporting on what the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority is telling us is fear mongering, then, I guess, I'm guilty. But you know, this minister–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Swan: –needs to understand–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Swan: –how concerned families in the north-east corner of Winnipeg are. The wait times task force–again, commissioned by this government, providing advice to this government– says that even with planned renovations St.

Boniface, and I quote, lacks the physical infrastructure and does not currently have in -patient capacity to safely accommodate these increased numbers–the words of their own report. Will the Premier (Mr. Pallister) listen and stop the closures at Concordia and Seven Oaks? Mr. Friesen: Madam Speaker, let's all understand that for 17 years the NDP government failed to take the steps necessary to sustain our health-care system and keep it strong for the future. The wait times got worse. The money got spent, but it got thrown against a bad provision of service. We refuse to take that same path.

It's why we are making a comprehensive change to our health- care system designed to get better access to care; to get shorter wait times; to get more provision of service. We will keep going down this path because we know the evidence is now showing it's beginning to work. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Minto, on a final supplementary. Mr. Swan: Well, Madam Speaker, let's all understand that this government is putting cutting costs ahead of patient safety in Winnipeg and in the province of Manitoba.

Now, the plan to close this emergency room has alarmed residents of northeast Winnipeg, and it's alarmed them greatly because they know in an emergency every second counts. Now, we know there's studies. One in California, for example, it found after a string of emerge ncy department closures, mortality rates increased for heart attack patients, for those suffering a stroke. But, of course, for this government, despite their own evidence, their own reports, it's full speed ahead and they've announced they'll be redirec ting the very sickest patients away from Concordia starting next week.

Will the Premier reconsider this misguided plan, which we know is failing, to close more Winnipeg emergency rooms? Mr. Friesen: The member is referring to a change that would see am bulances direct higher acuity patients to HSC, St. Boniface and Grace between the hours of 7 p.m. and 7 a.m. He is aware that even now there are those same protocols in place to always direct higher acuity patients to the appropriate care that they can receive. Those things are in place. * (14:20) He spreads fear.

But let's understand that under these statements there is a premise of his, and it goes likes this: don't change anything in the health- care system, ever. But we know where that led Manitoba. We are committed to a plan that will get better care sooner for Manitobans and we will not apologize because the plan is demonstrating that it's starting to work. Minor Drainage Projects New Regulations Mr. Derek Johnson (Interlake): After 17 years of NDP decay, our PC government is committed to reducing red tape and taking meaningful action to protect the environment.

For years, landowners and municipalities told the NDP that the way they manage drainage was not working for municipalities or landowners, not to mention the environment. And for years, nothing was done. Can the Minister of Sustainable Development please inform the House of our government's proposed new drainage regulations and what they mean for Manitobans?

364 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 4, 2018 Hon. Rochelle Squires (Minister of Sustainable Development): I'm pleased to take a question from my honourable colleague, and I'm also pleased to be delivering on a long-standing request from the AMM to improve the way we govern drainage in Manitoba. We are now accepting public comments on a proposal that would provide a faster and simpler process for approving minor drainage projects. The new regulations will also deliver on a major part of our Climate and Green Plan by ensuring that there is no net loss of wetlands in Manitoba.

Madam Speaker, our government is taking meaningful action to protect the environment while eliminating needless red tape for landowners and municipalities. Manitobans deserve better than what they got under the NDP, and that's exactly what we're delivering. Lead Contamination in Soil Health Effects on Children Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Madam Speaker, successive NDP and PC governments have known for decades of dangerous levels of lead in neighbourhoods across Winnipeg, including St. Boniface, Point Douglas and Weston. We know where the contamination is.

We know there can be serious health impacts from lead as well as other metals. The Minister of Sustainable Development has dropped the ball on this issue. It now falls to the Minister of Health. We know there's been lead contamination. The question is whether this government has asked for any assessment of the health of children and youth in the contaminated areas. Hon. Rochelle Squires (Minister of Sustainable Development): I'd like to correct the member's

preamble where he stated that the Minister of Health is taking action now on matters of health. And, well, that's exactly what he is doing. We are putting back public health–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Ms. Squires: –in terms of the Health Minister is now responsible for matters of public health. My department is responsible for matters of environment, and we work together as a team. That is exactly the way it should be. The NDP reversed direction. They pulled public health away from the environmental process so that the environmentalists were offering public health.

It never should have been that way, and we're setting it right. We're working as a team and getting action for Manitobans. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for River Heights, on a supplementary question. Mr. Gerrard: Madam Speaker, the Manitoba Liberal caucus submitted a request to determine if areas of St. Boniface impacted by contamination were showing different levels of illness. Children and youth living in postal zones around the St. Boniface contaminated area show higher levels of prescriptions for drugs related to mental health than in the rest of Winnipeg and in Manitoba. I table that report.

These findings are of concern. They could indicate that children and youth in that area may be more likely to have ADHD, which can be treated with such medications. Will the minister and his department investigate these findings and study whether the health of children and youth in St. Boniface, Point Douglas and Weston and other neighbourhoods have been 'adly'–adversely affected by years of government inaction? Ms. Squires: Speaking of years of inaction by the government, that was under the NDP. They hid the report. In 2007, they had a report. In fact, they had a draft press release.

In fact, they had that press release ready to go, and their minister said, no, we don't want to put this out; it might affect the election that we're going into. So they buried the results. From 2011 all the way unti l 2017, that information was concealed. Our government is taking action–I'd also like to table the results from the most recent analysis that my department undertook–and that is exactly what we're going to do. We're going to continue to work on this issue so that we can ensure Manitobans have a safe, clean environment for all.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for River Heights, on a final supplementary. Request to Release Reports Mr. Gerrard: Madam Speaker, we've heard from people in affected neighbourhoods. They don't want finger 'pounting'. They want action to make them save– safe, and to clean up. We can't continue to have a culture of inaction when tests showing lead contamination were known and withheld from the public. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order.

December 4, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 365 Mr. Gerrard: There needs to be a full investigation of why the information remained hidden for so long. This is a matter of serious public concern, and the answers are available but out of reach because they're available only in the advice to ministers and Cabinet confidences. Will the Premier and the Leader of the Official Opposition (Mr. Kinew) give consent to release the relevant documents from Cabinet confidence so a proper investigation can happen? Hon.

Brian Pallister (Premier): So let's be clear: the member doesn't want finger pointing, but he wants a full investigation and points the finger at the previous government, Madam Speaker, and the current government. This is the typical Liberal approach: blame everybody and don't take responsibility. Madam Speaker, this government takes responsibility. The reality is soil tests were conducted 10 years ago. The reality is the results were covered up by the previous administration. The reality is the results were released; they were made public. The reality is retesting was ordered by the minister.

The reality is the minister went the extra mile to get the information to the people of the area. The fact is the people of Wolseley, Logan, Minto, St. B and Point Douglas were not protected by the previous government, but they are by this one. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. Introduction of Guests Madam Speaker: Prior to proceeding with oral questions, we have a couple more guests in the gallery that I would like to introduce to you. Seated in the public gallery we have Max Friesen and Lindsay Friesen, the father and brother of the Minister of Health, Seniors a nd Active Living (Mr.

Friesen), and we'd like to welcome you to the Manitoba Legislature. Northern Walleye Inc. Licence Renewal Inquiry Mr. Rob Altemeyer (Wolseley): We'll try this again. Thank you, Madam Speaker. On Friday, the fish dealer licence for a company called Northern Walleye expired. This is the company that outraged commercial fishers across the province because they walked off with over $1 million of fish and did not pay the fishers for it.

Commercial fishers are equally outraged at this government because fishers were supposed to be paid within a week of delivering their catch, and, instead, the government removed that law from the books altogether. So let's start at the first step, which would obviously be to ask this minister: Did Northern Walleye apply for their fish dealer licence to be renewed, and has she granted that request? Hon. Rochelle Squires (Minister of Sustainable Development): Again, I have to reject the entire

preamble from this member. It was completely erroneous. And in terms of the licence that he purports to have expired on Friday, I'd like to inform him that it was suspended months ago, and it will remain suspended until minimum of May of 2020. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Wolseley, on a supplementary question. [interjection] Order. Internal Investigation Mr. Altemeyer: As recently as last week, Madam Speaker, this minister and her department refused to provide any information about her so- called government's investigation. I table a

article written in The Express Weekly News where they were given ample opportunity to identify what, if any, steps they were taking, and they flat out refused to do so. I would also like to ask the minister, if she did find anything troubling during this so- called–and, until today, unknown–results of her internal investigation, did she take the step of passing along that information to the RCMP in a formal referral? Ms. Squires: Our government is always standing up for all the fisheries in the province of Manitoba and the quality of Lake Winnipeg.

In fact, last week, I had a very robust conversation with the Lake Winnipeg co-management board on issues of sustainability, something that that previous government never addressed. They never addressed the sustainability of the lake. When zebra mussels were infesting Lake Winnipeg, their minister, Gord Mackintosh, shrugged his shoulders and says, oh well, we have 100,000 other lakes in this province to care about. Well, this government will never turn its back on Lake Winnipeg

366 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 4, 2018 fishers or the in –the health of the fishery. We are continuing to work and stand up for fishers in Manitoba. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Wolseley, on a final supplementary. Mr.

Altemeyer: Well, you know, when you ask a question about fishers –hard-working Manitobans – getting paid for a hard day's work and the minister can't answer the question, that's something that all of us need to be very concerned about. * (14:30) I'm not surprised the minister's refusing to answer that question, because, thanks to a FIPPA, we actually don't need her answers in question period – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Altemeyer: We can find out the truth.

I'm wondering if she might be able to recall who it was that wrote, way back in March of this year – March 11th, to be precise –quote: Just reading the Express Weekly and it states the Winnipegosis RCMP has dropped its investigation as we were the lead investigator and no need for duplication. Well, that would have been the minister who wrote that, and yet last week she sent a reporter on a wild goose chase to go talk to the RCMP, who she knows– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Ms.

Squires: Well, again, I reject the premise of this member's argument, and I appreciate that he does his opposition research in two-week-old news articles. But the reality is is our government continues to stand up for the fishers in Manitoba. We conducted a full investigation and we are moving forward with fishery–enhanced fishery for all Manitobans. Work Readiness Certificate for Youth New Online Course Announcement Mrs. Sarah Guillemard (Fort Richmond): Yesterday, our government along with SAFE Work Manitoba announced a new Young Worker Readiness Certificate course.

Could the Minister for Growth, Enterprise and Trade please share with the House how this new course will help keep our youth aware of the rights and responsibilities in the workforce? Hon. Blaine Pedersen (Minister of Growth, Enterprise and Trade): I thank the member for Fort Richmond for that great question because yesterday we did unveil our youth worker readiness certificate course.

This is an online course for young people aged 13 and up where they take an online course learning about safety at the workplace, responsibilities of the workplace, rights in the workplace, and then when– upon completion of the course, the students write a test and get a certificate which they then give to their prospective employer, and this ensures that both workers and employers know that our young people are working in a safe environment and know–and both know their rights and responsibilities. This is a great course for young people, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The time for oral questions has expired.

PETITIONS Addictions Services– Brandon and Western Manitoba Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Addictions are a health and social problem that require co-ordinated responses from the health -care, social services, education and justice systems.

(2) It is well known that the number of people addicted to alcohol, drugs and other substances is on the rise in Manitoba, with a notable increase in use of methamphetamine and opioids –opiates–two highly addictive and very destructive drugs.

(3) Between April of 2015 and April of 2018, drug abuse and alcohol abuse were two of the top three risk factors identified by the community mobilization Westman HUB when dealing with persons with acutely elevated risk.

(4) Recent Brandon Police Service annual reports show a steady increase in calls for service for crimes against property and person.

(5) In Brandon and western Manitoba, individuals seeking addictions treatment and the families trying to help them do not have local access to the services or supports they need.

(6) There is no publicly available, centralized list of addictions facilities in Manitoba.

December 4, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 367 We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To request that the provincial government consider establishing a cross -departmental team to provide leadership on a culturally appropriate, co-ordinated response to the growing addictions crisis in our province that includes an aggressive, widespread education campaign on the dangers of using methamphetamine and opiates, along with addictions education for front -line medical staff in health -care facilities.

(2) To request that the provincial government consider providing additional addictions services in Brandon and western Manitoba across the continuum of care, including–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –acute response, detoxification, long-term rehabilitation, transitional housing and support for managing co-occurring disorders.

(3) To request that the Minister of Health, Seniors and Active Living consider establis hing a publicly available inventory of all addictions facilities in Manitoba.

(4) To request that the Minister of Health, Seniors and Active Living consider providing supports for the families of people struggling with addiction, including counselling, patient navigation and advocacy, and direct access to free naloxone. This petition has been signed by Mark Anderson, Jamie Rose, April McDonald and many other Manitobans. Madam Speaker: In accordance with our rule 133(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House. Mr. James Allum (Fort Garry-Riverview): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. Background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Addictions are a health and social problem that require co-ordinated responses from the health -care, social services, education and justice systems.

(2) It is well known that the number of people addicted to alcohol, drugs and other substances is on the rise in Manitoba, with a notable increase in use of 'methamaphetamine' and opiates, two highly addictive and very destructive drugs. Between April 2015 and April 2018, drug abuse and alcohol abuse were two of the top three risk factors identified by the community mobilization Westman HUB when dealing with persons with acutely elevated risk.

(4) Recent Brandon Police Service annual reports show a steady increase in calls for service for crimes against property and person.

(5) In Brandon and western Manitoba, individuals seeking addictions treatment and the families trying to help them do not have local access to the services or supports they need; and

(6) There is no publicly available, centralized list of addictions facilities in Manitoba. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To request that the provincial government consider establishing a cross -departmental team to provide leadership on a culturally appropriate, co-ordinated response to the growing addictions crisis in our province that includes an aggressive, widespread education campaign on the dangers of using 'methamaphetamine' and opiates, along with addictions education for front -line medical staff in health-care facilities.

(2) To request that the provincial government consider providing additional addictions services in Brandon and western Manitoba across the continuum of care, including acute response, detoxification, long-term rehabilitation, transitional housing and support for managing co-occurring disorders.

(3) To request that the Minister of Health, Seniors and Active Living consider establishing a publicly available inventory of all addictions facilities in Manitoba; and

(4) To request that the Minister of Health, Seniors and Active Living consider providing supports for the families of people struggling with addiction, including counselling, patient navigation and advocacy and direct access to free naloxone. And, Madam Speaker, this petition is signed by Vivian Kenderdine, Peggy Meek, Berni e Meek and many other Manitobans. Vimy Arena Hon. Steven Fletcher (Assiniboia): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

368 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 4, 2018

(1) The residents of St. James and other areas of Manitoba are concerned with the intention expressed by the provincial government to use the Vimy Arena site as a Manitoba Housing project.

(2) The Vimy Arena site is in the middle of a residential area near many schools, churches, community clubs and se nior homes, and neither the provincial government nor the City of Winnipeg considered better suited locations in rural, semi-rural or industrial sites such as the St. Boniface Industrial Park, the 20,000 acres at CentrePort or existing properties such as the Shriners Hospital or old Children's Hospital on Wellington Crescent. * (14:40)

(3) The provincial government is exempt from any zoning requirements that would have existed if the land was owned by the City of Winnipeg. This exemption bypasses community input and due diligence, and ignores better uses for the land which would be consistent with a residential area.

(4) Though there are standards that one would expect for a treatment centre, the Minister of Health, Seniors and Active Living has stated that the Department of Health had no role to play in the land acquisition for this Manitoba Housing project for use as an drug addiction facility.

(5) The Manitoba Housing project initiated by the provincial government changes the fundamental nature of the community, including park and recreation uses, concerns of the residents of St. James and others – public safety, property value and the people of St. James way of life are not properly being addressed.

(6) The concerns of the residents of St. James are being ignored while obvious other locations in wealthier neighbourhoods, such as Tuxedo and River Heights, have not been considered for this Manitoba Housing project, even though there are hundreds of acres of land available for development at Kapyong Barracks or parks like Heubach Park that share the same zoning as the Vimy Arena site.

(7) The Manitoba Housing project and the operation of a drug treatment centre fall outside the statutory mandate of the Manitoba Housing renewal corporation.

(8) The provi ncial government does not have a co-ordinated plan for addiction treatment in Manitoba as it currently underplan–underfunds treatment centres which are running far under capacity and potential.

(9) The community has been misled regarding the true intention of the Manitoba Housing –of Manitoba Housing as lands be transferred for a 50 -bed facility even though the project is clearly outside Manitoba Housing responsibility. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the provincial government to take the necessary steps to ensure that the Vimy Arena site is not used for an addiction treatment facility.

(2) To urge the provincial government to take the necessary steps to ensure the preservation of public land along Sturgeon Cree k for the purpose of park land and recreational activities for public use, including being an important component of the Sturgeon Creek Greenway Trail and the Sturgeon Creek ecosystem under the current designation of PR2 for the 255 Hamilton Ave. location at the Vimy Arena site, and to maintain the land to be continued designated for parks and recreation activity in neighbourhoods and community. This has been signed by many Manitobans, Madam Speaker.

Flin Flon General Hospital Obstetric Services Mr. Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Access to quality health care is a fundamental right of all Manitobans no matter where they live.

(2) The Premier has slashed budgets and cancelled projects for northern communities, making it harder for families to get the primary health care they need.

(3) The budget of the Northern Regional Health Authority has been slashed by over $6 million which has negatively affected doctor retention programs and the Northern Patient Transportation Program.

(4) With limited services in the North, the Premier is forcing families and seniors to travel further for the health care they need.

(5) On November 6, 2018, the northern regional health authority announced that obstetric delivery services at the Flin Flon General Hospital would be suspended–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order.

December 4, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 369 Mr. Lindsey: –with no discussion regarding when they will be reinstated.

(6) The result of this decision is that mothers in Flin Flon and the surrounding area will have to travel at least an hour and a half to The Pas, creating unnecessary risk for mothers and babies.

(7) The people of Flin Flon are concerned for the health and safety of mothers -to-be and their babies, including the extra physical and financial stress that will be placed upon them by this decision of the provincial government.

(8) There has been no commitment from this provincial government that mothers and their escorts who have to travel to The Pas will be covered by the northern patient transport program.

(9) Flin Flon General Hospital is a regional hub that serves several communities on both sides of the Manitoba-Saskatchewan border.

(10) Because this provincial government has refused to invest in much-needed health-care services in The Pas, the hospital in The Pas may not be able to handle the extra workload created by this decision. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to reinstate obstetric delivery services at Flin Flon General Hospital and work with the government of Saskatchewan and the federal government to ensure obstetric services continue to be available on a regional basis.

And this petition, Madam Speaker, been signed by Jennifer Beck, Shawn Anderson, Ben Siemens and many other Manitobans. Preventative Health Services Plan Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background of this petition is as follows: Preventative health services are essential to creating a healthy community. Preventive care to optimize health and decrease sickness is as important as treatment after a disease or sickness has been identified.

Increasing evidence now supports well -designed investments in prevention to improve health and decrease health-care costs, starting in the first year. In the long term, effective prev entive measures can continue to improve population health while reducing downstream costs. The lack of a focused and comprehensive provincial approach to prevention under the previous NDP provincial government and under the present provincial government has resulted in steadily increasing rates of diabetes, HIV and methamphe - tamine addictions province-wide.

The cutbacks by the present provincial government, including the underspending in primary care by 65 per cent in 2016-2017 and by 70 per cent in 2017-2018, the closure of the Corydon Primary Care Clinic and the elimination of 50 per cent of the clinical staff at the Addictions Foundation of Manitoba Compass youth program in Portage la Prairie, have all reduced the capacity to deliver preventive health initiatives. The lack of a provincial plan to address poverty, homelessness and the methamphetamine crisis in Manitoba is hampering efforts to keep people well.

When prevention services are only a small part of a clinical services plan, acute-care services invariably monopolize attention, money and other resources. The need to dedicate and focus resources used in prevention requires a comprehensive standalone preventive health services plan. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: * (14:50) To urge the provincial government to immediately develop and release a preventative-health-services plan which would provide the necessary direction and resources to improve the health and well -being of Manitobans.

Signed by Rachel Smith, Evelyn Forget, Richard Lobdell and many others. Madam Speaker: Grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY (Continued) GOVERNMENT BUSINESS Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Government House Leader): This afternoon, could you please call for second reading debate: Bill 2, The Municipal Amendment Act (Strengthening Codes of Conduct for Council Members); and once that is passed, could you please call Bill 4, the public sector construction projects (tenders) act; when that is passed, could you please call

370 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 4, 2018 Bill 3, The Liquor, Gaming and Cannabis Control Amendment Act (Cannabis Social Responsibility Fee); and when that is passed, would you please call Bill 7, The Highway Traffic Amendment Act (Immediate Roadside Prohibitions). Following that, we'd entertain a 5 o'clock call.

Madam S peaker: It has been announced that the House will consider second reading of Bill 2 this afternoon; and once that is passed it will be followed by debate on Bill 4; and once that is passed it will be followed by debate on Bill 3; and following that it would be the–what would follow would be debate on Bill 7. SECOND READINGS Bill 2–The Municipal Amendment Act (Strengthening Codes of Conduct for Council Members) Madam Speaker: So, therefore, calling the first one, Bill 2, second reading of Bill 2, The Municipal Amendment Act (Strengthening Codes of Conduct for Council Members). Hon.

Jeff Wharton (Minister of Municipal Relations): I move, seconded by the Minister of Infrastructure (Mr. Schuler), that Bill 2, The Municipal Amendment Act (Strengthening Codes of Conduct for Council Members), now be read for a second time and referred to a committee of this House. Her Honour the Lieutenant Governor has been advised of the bill, and I table her message.

Madam Speaker: It has been moved by the honourable Minister for Municipal Relations, seconded by the honourable Minister of Infrastructure , that Bill 2, The Municipal Amendment Act (Strengthening Codes of Conduct for Council Members), be now read a second time and be referred to a committee of this House. Her Honour the Lieutenant Governor has been advised of the bill, and the message has been tabled. Mr. Wharton: It's truly a pleasure to rise today and give second reading to Bill 2, The Municipal Amendment Act.

Madam Speaker, all elected officials are expected to govern in the best interest of their communities. Citizens expect their municipal governments to fulfill their duties and responsibilities with honesty and integrity. Provincially, we have shown leadership in extending protections to the civil service with the no-wrong-door approach after disturbing reports of sexual harassment during the tenure of the previous administration.

Just last week, we acted on a 2014 request by the City of Winnipeg to be included in provincial whistleblower protection legislation that was ignored by members opposite when they were in government, Madam Speaker. We went even further by allowing all municipalities across the province to opt in to the new framework. I am pleased to continue our leadership to improve municipal governments through stronger codes of conduct for council members.

Under The Municipal Act, all municipalities are required to adopt a code of conduct that establishes guidelines on acceptable behaviour for council members in dealing with each other, employees and citizens. However, under the NDP, some municipal codes of conduct were unenforceable and ill-defined, Madam Speaker. Last spring, we committed to work with municipalities and other stakeholders to review The Municipal Act and other relevant legislation to identify opportunities to strengthen a municipality's ability to enforce their codes of conduct.

Over the last several months we have been consulting with our municipal partners, Madam Speaker. We heard the need for stronger legislation around council code of conduct regarding the prevention, investigation and enforcement mechanisms available to municipalities in response to harassment and bullying in the workplace. We heard that municipalities would like to see the Province prescribe the content of their council codes of conduct, ensuring all members of council adhere to the sa me set of standards and values.

But we also heard that maintaining council autonomy was important with respect to the process for dealing with complaints and authority to impose sanctions against another member for a breech of the code. This bill balances these interests, Madam Speaker, providing council members with more robust legislated framework to support a respectful environment at the local level. Amendments to The Municipal Act are intended to strengthen council's codes of conduct by requiring that the code be adopted by bylaw.

This strengthens the provisions of the code, enhances accountability and transparency and strengthens the powers for council to enforce their code.

December 4, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 371 The bill establishes baseline content of the code of conduct, including the minimum standards and values. This would standardize the code across municipalities, Madam Speaker, ensuring that all council members adhere to the same set of ethical standards and procedures for implementing their codes of conduct. When the NDP required municipalities to have a code of conduct on the books in 2012, they neglected to make sure that all municipalities followed that directive.

The result was a handful of councils with a code of conduct with no mechanism of the government to take correct ive action when we came into office, Madam Speaker. Further, there was no guidance provided to municipalities on what should or should not be included in the council code of conduct, resulting in unenforceable and inconsistent codes of conduct in many municipalities right across the province, Madam Speaker. Our bill takes a different approach that focuses on education and prevention to ensure there is a consistent standard across the province that is relevant and enforceable.

The minister will have authority to make a number of regulations that would further enhance the council code of conduct. Sanctions and remedial measures available to councils will be expanded and clarified by regulation–this response to municipalities' requests for broader sanctions rather than censure, Madam Speaker. By regulation, baseline standards and values that all council members must adhere to will be defined.

The Department of Municipal Relations and the Manitoba Status of Women Secretariat will continue our consultations with municipalities and other stakeholders to ensure that anti-harassment and sexual harassment standards and values are reflected in the regulations. The minimum process for council to deal with code of conduct complaints will also be established by regulation. Madam Speaker, we will develop these regulations with municipalities to ensure the autonomy of council and capacity of municipalities is fully recognized.

As well, Madam Speaker, a regulation governing possible appeals when sanctions are imposed will be developed in the coming months. We heard, in our consultations, that access to an appeal mechanism was important for all municipalities. Finally, all members of council will be required to undergo training within the first six months of being elected, Madam Speaker, or re- elected. The training course will be specified by the Province to ensure consistent content and minimal cost to municipalities.

The course will cover matters like respectful behaviour, good conduct and ethics and code of conduct requirements in both official languages. Many conflicts on council may have been prevented, Madam Speaker, through training on expected standards and values at the beginning of a council member's term. In our consultations an overwhelming majority are in favour of mandatory training. Any member who fails to undergo the training within the first six months will be suspended until they undergo the training.

The bill does not set out a transitionary period of 180 days following royal assent for current councillors to complete their mandatory training. With 48 per cent turnover, Madam Speaker, across municipal governments and a record number of women elected as heads of council and councillors, there is a real opportunity to affect change and shift the culture to stamp out harassment at the local level. In closing, Madam Speaker, our government believes that everyone deserves a safe and respectful work environment.

This bill is a result of extensive consultations with municipalities and other stakeholders to strengthen the protections for elected 'munisal'–municipal officials. I want to thank all of those who took

part in consultations, Madam Speaker, to develop this bill. I urge all members to join our caucus in voting in favour of Bill 2. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Questions Madam Speaker: A question period of up to 15 minutes will be held. Questions may be addressed to the minister by any member in the following sequence: first question by the official opposition critic or designate, subsequent questions asked by critics or designates from other recognized opposition parties, subsequent questions asked by each independent member, remaining questions asked by any opposition members, and no question or answer shall exceed 45 seconds. * (15:00)

372 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 4, 2018 Mr. Wa b Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): One of the items that we certainly noted while reading through the bill is that it does not appear that the City of Winnipeg or the City of Brandon are included, explicitly, in the scope of the legislation that we're debating here today. I'm wondering if the minister can talk to us about whether and how the cities of Winnipeg and Brandon have codes of conduct for their own council, and if he could share some details about all of that. Hon.

Jeff Wharton (Minister of Municipal Relations): I thank the member for the question, and this bill, Madam Speaker, again, applies to municipalities outside of the city of Winnipeg under The Municipal Act. The City of Winnipeg–and the member would know –is governed by the Winnipeg charter. And, actually, in correction to the member opposite's concern about Brandon, Madam Speaker, Brandon is under The Municipal Act and will be part of this bill. Mr. Kinew: Guess we'll just take some swings at the Liberals for the next little while and –no, I'm just kidding, Madam Speaker.

I'm curious to know –this will bring into place policies. The minister talked about some training, you know, programs which will be delivered to municipalities. Of course, this will require various resources. It'll certainly require time on behalf of the council members, but also likely some funds in order to hire consultants or other people to deliver this sort of training.

So I'm wondering if the minister can tell the House: Which resources will th e Province offer to help support training for members of councils and any sort of related demand on resources to ensure, if this bill becomes law, that it can be fully and properly implemented? Mr. Wharton: Again, thank the member for the question. And certainly, during our consultations over the last several months with our municipal partners, and, of course, members of the administrative association of Manitoba, Madam Speaker, there was a lot of talk about the training and, certainly, how we could partner on that going forward.

And I can share with this House, of course, Madam Speaker, that the Department of Municipal Relations will be taking a very active role in ensuring, in collaboration with our municipal partners, that the training, going forward, will be done collaboratively, and, of course, with the AMM fully involved and engaged. Mr. Kinew: I'm wondering if the minister can tell the House: Will specific guidelines be mandated for how, you know, employers, the cities–municipalities, rather– are to respond to and prevent incidents of harassment and violence in the workplace?

We've heard that there's going to be the requirement for policy, but I'm, you know, curious: Once regulations are developed, what is the minister and what are the department's plans for the specificity? How prescriptive are they going to be about how these policies have to look, or is it just going to be a requirement and the –there'll be very much a wide latitude provided to the municipality? So if he could talk a bit about the specificity, please. Mr. Wharton: Absolutely, Madam Speaker. Thank you, and again, thank the m ember for that question.

And, again, we're going to be working over the next several weeks and months with Association of Manitoba Municipalities to start to develop the regulations that are going to be necessary to address some of the concerns that potentially–that could come up, of course, and the member opposite alludes to. And, you know, again, this is going to be done in full collaboration. We're not necessarily –well, the department would never be sitting there dictating the type of regulations, Mada m Speaker. That's not the type of government that we are.

We want to make sure that we fully engage our partners over the next several weeks and months to get those regulations right. Mr. Kinew: I'm curious as to know whether there's a timeline for these regulations that will describe the requirements for these codes of conduct. It appears as though the bill comes into force some 180 days after it passes–assuming that it does pass, of course, Madam Speaker. Wondering if the regulations will be done at tha t time? Is that the target here, or is there some other timeline at work?

Again, can the minister let the House know what the timeline is in terms of the development for the regulations governing these codes of conduct? Mr. Wharton: I certainly appreciate, it sounds like the support of the members opposite on this very important piece of legislation, Bill 2. Of course, Madam Speaker, the regulations, as I mentioned earlier in one of my

December 4, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 373 other answers, will be developed in consultation and collaboration with our AMM partners and members of the Manitoba administrators' association as we go forward. And we're looking forward to accomplishing those regulations over the next several weeks and months. And, again, with the members opposite's support from the Liber als and the NDP, we look forward to royal assent in June of 2019. Mr.

Kinew: So the minister has made reference to consultations, he's talked about the Association of Manitoba Municipalities, and I think, you know, many of our colleagues here in the House we're happy to participate in AMM's convention here in Winnipeg recently. But I'm curious if you can talk a bit about, you know, some of the details on who was consulted, and if you could share which sort of suggestions were made by those groups and how that's all been implemented into the bill that we're now considering here before the House. Mr.

Wharton: Absolutely, Madam Speaker, a pleasure to share with the member and the rest of the House the consultation process. We were pleased to spend last June throughout Manitoba in June districts at AMM where we visited several communities throughout the province. And our staff, and first of all I'd like to thank and again appreciate the staff for all the hard work they did during that process of undertaking t he consultations through June districts.

And we also, of course, met with MMAA at their AGM in the early fall, Madam Speaker, where we had the opportunity to work with them and, of course, consult through the process. Mr. Kinew: So, again, following up on the issue of consultation, and again, I do make note that the city of Winnipeg is not, you know, being legislated in this bill. I'm curious to know whether that was the product of consultation, the decision to not touch the City of Winnipeg's charter.

Was this based on a conversation with the City of Winnipeg, or was this more just a decision on behalf of the minister to focus on municipalities outside the city of Winnipeg. I'm wondering if the minister could tell the House whether they consulted with the City of Winnipeg before deciding not to include the city under the provisions of this bill. Mr. Wharton: Absolutely, I would love to share this information with the House, and the member, of course.

As the member does know, and as I alluded to earlier, the City of Winnipeg is governed under their charter and currently have an integrity commissioner employed, Madam Speaker, who we have also spoke with. And we're looking forward to having further dialogue with the City of Winnipeg as we go forward. I mean, Madam Speaker, it's very clear that we want to ensure under our government's no-wrong-door policy and now in moving forward with Bill 2, with the council code of conduct, that we continue to engage other members and other municipalities, including the City of Winnipeg, as we go forward. Mr.

Kinew: So I take it that the minister's talking about Sherri Walsh there. I'm curious about the outreach to the city of Brandon as well, noting again that the Brandon is not included under the purview of the legislation we're now debating before the House. Curious to know whether that was a product of conversations with the City of Brandon, or again, was this a ministerial or departmental prerogative?

Can the minister tell the House whether they consulted with the City of Brandon, checking in whether or not they wanted to be included in this legislation, and was the decision not to include them a product of conversations with that city? Mr. Wharton: Certainly, kudos go out to Mayor Chrest; first of all, congratulations for his win in October as running for his second term in office.

And certainly, on behalf of our government and, of course, our department, we're certainly–congratulate him and we enjoy the, we enjoy working the next four years and beyond, Madam Speaker, and that's going to be our goal, of course, past 2020. But I can tell you that Mayor Chrest and our office and our government worked collaboratively on many fronts.

And code of conduct, of course, Madam Speaker, is important as I mentioned to the member prior to that last question, was that we need to move forward and make sure collaboratively that we work with all our major cities across Manitoba, including Brandon. * (15:10) Mr. Kinew: So, in these conversations with Winnipeg, Brandon and otherwise, I'm wondering how much, you know, back and forth there was about perhaps copying some of those measures that those cities have taken. For instance, the minister noted that Winnipeg has an integrity commissioner.

Wondering if that's something that will appear in regulation and if some of those ideas, even though the cities of Winnipeg and Brandon are not included in this legislation, whether or not some of the conversations that have been had with

374 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 4, 2018 those cities will find their way, either into the legislation or into the regulation that will be developed under this bill, Bill 2. Mr. Wharton: As I mentioned again earlier, we continue to have great dialogue with not only the City of Winnipeg, but all our municipalities, all 137 of them right across this great province, Madam Speaker. And, you know, again, I want to remind the member too, as well, that Brandon and the City of Winnipeg have taken a role in putting this bill together, and will continue to, when it comes to the regulations.

We're looking forward to again spending the next several weeks and months to ensure that the regulations are done in a collaborative form. We will continue to consult with the cities of Brandon and Winnipeg and all our municipalities. Mr. Dougald Lamont (Leader of the Second Opposition): I'd just like to ask of the minister, I want to make sure that I've got it correct. In reading the legislation, it appears that, let's say, if an accusation comes forward and it goes to a vote of council, that the person who's accused is still allowed–is to–allowed to vote on their own fate, essentially.

So I just wanted to get clarification on that, and what the minister sees as challenges around that. So let's say someone is accused of harassment, they–the–I want to make sure–I believe that under the current legislation, they are allowed to vote to defend themselves, essentially. So, if the minister could talk a bit about that, specifically how–whether he sees that as appropriate, that a person who's accused can vote to exonerate themselves. Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Mr. Wharton: Certainly thank the member for the question.

And, you know, again, council will be–will have a baseline regulation, Madam Speaker, right across Manitoba. So all 136 municipalities outside of the city of Winnipeg that will be involved in this legislation and development of regulation, going forward, will determine the outcomes. Madam Speaker, municipal councils have the authority currently to censure. We're talking about sanctions. So we're basically giving them more teeth to ensure that if there is issues with harassment and bullying, they have the autonomy to make those decisions. Mr.

Kinew: So one of the barriers that I think that people who may want to report an incident of harassment face is the fear of reprisal. And many policies, including, you know, the one governing the Legislative Assembly, contemplate how to address the issue of fear of reprisal, and, certainly, that will be an important part of any policy developed under this legislation, again, assuming that it does pass, Madam Speaker.

So I'm curious to know what will this bill do to ensure that anyone who experiences workplace harassment or violence on the job could make a formal complaint without risking their job, recognizing, of course, that somebody's fear of their job is one of the greatest fears of reprisal they face. Mr.

Wharton: Certainly, with some of our conversations and consultations with the Manitoba Municipal Administrators' Association, which, of course, include our clerical staff, our CAOs throughout the province, and I keep reiterating when I see a council and reeve and their CAO that I remind every one of them that the hardest working individual in that office is your CAO and your staff. So they ensure that they get that message, Madam Speaker, and it's very true because of my council experience as well; my CAO was definitely a guide for me.

But, Madam Speaker, I can tell you that certainly we're going to be moving forward with these consultations in a collaborative fashion. Mr. Mohinder Saran (The Maples): Sometimes people can be accused falsely because of employee job performance and at the same time, some elected officials want to score political points by defaming the colleagues. Will the minister create safeguards to stop this kind of prostitutional and political pimping behaviour? Mr.

Wharton: I certainly thank the member for the question, and in the bill, Madam Speaker, it –we talk about an appeals process that will be available to individuals that have been essentially sanctioned for misconduct. So, to the member's point, there will be this appeals process in place, and again, building on the regulations on that process, Madam Speaker, will be done in collaboration with AMM. Madam Speaker: The time for this question period has ended. Debate Madam Speaker: The floor is open for debate.

December 4, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 375 Mr. W ab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): I do appreciate the opportunity to get up and speak about this bill here today.

I do want to note, off the top, that the issue of harassment and discrimination and violence in the workplace is a very sensit ive topic and, you know, does cause significant stress, both for people who are going through an incident themselves, but also for people who have experienced something similar in the past and are forced to revisit such incidents because they hear it being discussed either in public, or in the media, or perhaps in the workplace.

So I do want to acknowledge that off the top and I guess offer these words as sort of a–both a salve, in the sense that I offer some empathy and compassion for those who have exper ienced harassment in the workplace, also, Madam Speaker, that, you know, just saying this off the top as a bit of a trigger warning, if you will. Before I get into the substance of the comments I wish to make before the Legislative Assembly this afternoon, I do want to highlight the work of one of our colleagues. She comes from a different political stripe than I; she is the member for Kewatinook (Ms.

Klassen), but she did bring forward a piece of legislation on this topic previously, and so I do want to acknowledge her work here. Certainly, every party and all of us here have been forced to confront this issue and are working to make our society one that has a culture of consent.

When I was first elected, one of my first roles, Madam Speaker, was to ser ve as the education critic for the opposition, and one of the bills that I decided to bring forward was to require post -secondary institutions in Manitoba to have policies that would govern those institutions' response to the issues of sexual harassment, sexual violence. And of course, that bill did not gain passage, though perhaps it did lead to– this government to acting on that issue and bringing in their own version of the bill.

And so this issue has definitely been important, and I should stay–state at the outset that it's important for all of us to do work so that we live in a culture of consent, meaning a culture where everyone is free of discrimination and harassment, intimidation or bullying in the workplace. Mr. Dennis Smook, Acting Speaker, in the Chair And, when we talk about the workplace in relation to this bill, of course, that should mean in a council chamber or in a municipal building or in all the different settings governed by The Municipal Act.

And so, this bill, I think, is part and parcel of the broader move across our society that's based on listening to the voices of women and also listening to the voices of the LGBTTQ and non -binary folks who have borne the brunt of this form –these forms of harassment and intimidation and bullying in the past. Of course, you know, some men experience forms of harassment as well, but I think it's important to highlight the work of women.

I know a few years ago I was talking to my wife about her own experience, you know, just walking to work, walking by the Health Sciences Centre and, you know, having to put up with forms of harassment on the street and being catcalled and things like that. And certainly talking to other colleagues and friends and family over the years have been made more and more aware of how much work we have to do in our society so everyone can live free of this form of harassment. * (15:20) Of course, it's not just an issue in that setting as well.

We also know that there are other forms of bullying that are at work in poli tics, too, Mr. Acting Deputy Speaker. We've all been made aware through reports in the media of some of the issues on various town councils and municipal councils around the city including seeing some, you know, women who had promising political careers in front of them being forced out and being forced to step down because of the issues that they were facing.

And I think we can all agree that we're all worse off by having talented public servants step outside of public service merely because of this kind of a behaviour that we wouldn't want to see. So that's the, I think, predecessor background that brings us to considering this sort of legislation that is before the House today. I want to say at the outset that, you know, we believe that everyone has a ri ght to work in an environment free of harassment and discrimination.

We also stand for an inclusive and a diverse workplace that is supportive of all employees and provides them with opportunities to strive and be heard. And so, while we do want to take concrete steps to ensure that there aren't those forms of bullying or intimidation or harassment or that kind of negative behaviour, what I have heard in talking to colleagues, in talking to other people in various workplaces is that many employees, many colleagues want more than just the prevention of harm; they also would like to know that their workplace supports them.

They would also like to know that they're going to work in a place that

376 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 4, 2018 encourages them to reach their full potential in terms of their careers. And so I think that that needs to be a guiding philosophy in the work that we do on this front as well. Yes, it is important to prevent harm. That needs to be at the centre of a lot of these efforts, but so too do we need to take steps to ensure that employees and colleagues feel supported in the work that they do, and, of course, this extends much further beyond the workplace as well.

It is a statement of principle of our party that we believe that we want to move from a society that is centred arou nd competition and move towards one that's more about co-operation. And that, in order for us to be able to take these steps to transform our society in a positive way, that we need to model the behaviour ourselves and also in our politics that will allow such a transition to a more fair and equitable world to take place.

So, as a result, I think that we can understand that the importance behind creating a safer workspace for municipal politicians, for municipal employees, for municipalities in all the settings that they govern, it's not just about fairness in equity for those people immediately governed; it's also about setting a bar in our conduct so that we might be able to spread that good example beyond the confines of our political arenas. And so tha t's what I mean by working towards creating a culture of consent.

And so one of the things that I have done since, you know, becoming leader – immediately after becoming leader I did bring into place training for all of our caucus and staff and many of the other folks that we work with on a regular basis and that's now a part of our on-boarding process. And I do think that this sort of training is necessary and it's also needed to be ongoing.

Of course, I think you and I could probably compare notes about a ll the different ways that we could have our knowledge rounded out and expanded, but also that there's a requirement to commit to an ongoing process of education, lifelong learning, if you will. And so, as our society works towards becoming one governed by a culture of consent, it is important to continue to engage in conversations with people – with activists, with feminists, with people from the LGBTTQ community–who can better inform us about the ways that we can continue striving to create a better environment in politics.

And so I say this as one of the things that we'll be looking for under this legislation and under the regulation is this continuous nature of the training, and that, you know, if I could go off on a tangent for a second.

It–recently, you know, there's been a lot of changes in hockey to make hockey a more safe area for young players, and not only to respond to allegations of misconduct amongst past hockey coaches but also to ensure that the parents and the refs and everybody at the hockey rink can enjoy the game in an important way, but also so that the players can develop a love for the game and be able to play it for the rest of their lives and get all the good things that come out of having a meaningful hockey career.

So, along that journey, we've seen sort of from Hockey Canada and from other sport organizations kind of like an escalating requirement. So, at first, you know, I think Hockey Canada and Hockey Manitoba and these organizations brought in some requirements around coaches, and then that was formalized around a national training program called Respect in Sport. And then it became a requirement that coaches had to get their Respect in Sport certification.

And the Respect in Sport, of course, it talked about much the same as what these policies talk about at the municipal level– may contemplate things like preventing the bad behaviour. They also talk about cultivating a positive attitude between a coach and a player.

Now, the hockey governing bodies went a step further beyond that, and a few years back it became a requirement not just that a coach would have to take the Respect in Sport training before they would be allowed to be a coach, it's also now the requirement that a parent has to take the Respect in Sport training before their kid can be registered to play hockey in a given minor hockey association right across Canada. And there's probably further steps that will be taken in the future there.

Again, perhaps we can do more to ensure that the stands at a hockey game are going to be safe, and it's going to be beneficial for the refs and for the players and for everybody to cultivate their love for Canada's pastime. So I share that tangent with you as an example for why it's important to have an ongoing training program and a continuous re-examination of the policies which govern issues such as those that are enclosed with the legislation–within the legislation that is before the House today.

And so it may be that the regulations which are established under Bill 2 may make sense at the time of their implementation. This is, of course, why I asked the minister about the regulations, because a lot of the details will be fleshed out here. But, again, issues may arise a year from now, two years from now, five, 10 years from now, an d we should be ready to respond to those issues once they have arisen. And, of

December 4, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 377 course, that speaks to the requirement that these policies and that these regulations continue to be looked at in a very close fashion, Mr. Acting Deputy Speaker. And so I share this particularly with you, having spent a lot of time on this issue and thinking through the various different facets of how a policy can work to create a culture of consent in a workplace that would thereby extend towards having a positive influence in society, and I suggest to you that, of course, if the Legislature is to pass this bill, that the work isn't finished there.

Of course, there will be a requirement to have a continued examination and a continued, I think, circumspect attitude on the part of a government. And, certainly, if we return to government following the next election, we will be examining this closely, and we will continue to endeavour to make sure that it is up to date and we're doing everything that we can to right some of the historic wrongs that victims of harassment have felt, but also that we're staying up to date and examining the contours of this issue.

Now, we did have a bit of a back and forth there in the question period, maybe a little bit more tame than the typical back and forth in this Chamber, a little bit less partisan today, though we did touch on the issue of Winnipeg and Brandon not being included under the scope of this bill.

And, you know, I take the minister –minister's comments about how there are, you know, the charters governing these municipalities and how certainly Winnipeg–it's been pretty visible the steps that they've taken with Sherri Walsh being in the media a few times over the past number of years and, of course, you know, comments the minister made about Brandon as well.

But, again, I do just want to put on the record I think the concern that we would have on this side of the House is that there not be any significant gaps between the requirements for the conduct of somebody on a Winnipeg or Brandon council versus somebody on a council in a rural municipality, as an example, or another town or a city. * (15:30) And so I share that as a commentary to suggest to you, the Chair, and by extension to the minister, that the best practices which are at wor k in Brandon or Winnipeg ought to be studied and implemented.

And should there be –assuming this bill passes –best–new best practices examined within this one, then perhaps those should be shared with the cities of Winnipeg and Brandon as well. And, hopefully, the mayors and councils of those areas will be committed to improving their approaches to this topic if such improvements can be identified. Now, of course, a good chunk of the scope of this legislation will be found, not in the law itself, but in the regulations, under the rules which will be enacted and which the minister stated in question period will be developed in the coming weeks and months.

So some of those rules should contemplate some of the issues that we've been raising in the House today and in the past. Certainly, addressing the fear of reprisal that people may feel, some trepidation about bringing forward a complaint because they're worried about a job; they're worried about their position on a council; they're worried about, perhaps, the stress of being put out there in the media or in the public eye or on social media. And so that fear of reprisal certainly does need to be addressed, and I would share with the minister, by way of you, the Chair, Mr.

Acting Deputy Speaker, that we have shared with the Speaker our draft policy on harassment which we have implemented on our side of the House, for the purposes of the Speaker's consideration as she reviews her policy which governs the Legislative Assembly. And I do think that there may be some interesting policy ideas and best practices in that document that the minister may like to review and may choose to adopt some of those best practices.

One of the other issues, of course, that we've encountered, and I do think is still one that the government is also encountering and grappling with, is how do you find a way to create somebody who a report can be filed with who is truly going to be free of a conflict of interest? Again, one of the concerns that people have when they have experienced an incident of bullying or harassment is when they want to make a complaint, they may feel that the complaint is being made to somebody who may have a vested interest, real or perceived, in the situation.

And so what that has led us to do is to propos e a few different options: either that there be a safe person who could be approached, somebody who's outside of the workplace, outside of the employer status, and I guess, in the context of this bill, somebody who's not immediately engaged in the day-to-day operations of the municipality and who is not on the council properly. One of the other suggestions we made in that document, which we shared with the Speaker earlier

378 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 4, 2018 this summer, is that one of the independent offices of the Legislature may be able t o take on this sort of oversight function. Again, it's not neatly within the mandate of the Conflict of Interest Commissioner or neatly with the mandate of the ombudsperson. However, it does seem that the independence that those offices enjoy may mean that they have the necessary freedom from any real or perceived conflict of interest, which may provide some comfort to somebody to be able to make a report to them.

So, again, I'm sharing this as a topic of consideration as a possible best practice to examine. Again, it would be up to the department and to the minister to think through what the implications of this would be. Would it make sense for the Conflict of Interest Commissioner or the ombudsperson or an independent office like that to field the complaints for all municipalities across Manitoba?

Again, hopefully the conduct is above board, and there aren't too many complaints under this bill once it becomes law, but there should be preparations made to ensure that there is going to be an impartial adjudicator when such a situation does arise. And, of course, there are many other issues that these policies have to take into consideration, such as confidentiality.

And, of course we do want to respect the victim's wishes in instances where harassment or, you know, some form of violence has occurred, but, then again, when those people decide to share their stories, what is a policy to say about that, you know, and how is the confidentiality provision of the policy supposed to govern that?

Again, it seems as though in instances that we've seen at universities that, again, the confidentiality is very broadly interpreted, though there may be a public interest argument to be made that where there is the consent of a victim that perhaps the confidentiality should apply more narrowly. So, again, these are considerations and issues that will need to be addressed in the regulation and as the rules are developed here. Again, we should see that the consultations necessary for this should extend beyond just the AMM.

It is, of course, important that AMM and some of the, you know, municipal administrators, the councillors themselves, should be consulted. That is an important step. We should hear from the councillors, the mayors, the reeves, the CAOs and all those folks, but there probably will be a need to c onsult beyond those political and administrative individuals as well, and I would suggest to you, Mr. Chair, that the consultation should include activists who've been working on these issues –feminist activists, women's rights activists, activists from the LGBTTQ* community, non-binary folks as well.

And so that sort of consultation is important. It may also, you know, behoove the government to consult with human resources professionals. Again, this is a field with some very, very important expertise in it and I would acknowledge that consulting with individuals from HR would perhaps offer some very, very needed insight into what can be done to develop this policy in a way that serves all people in Manitoba.

So, that, you know, is certainly not an exhaustive list, but I think it begins to highlight some of the questions around the implementation of this bill once and if the government passes it and it proclaims it into law. I do also want to return to the issue that I raised in the question period, which was around the supports that will be needed for the implementation of this bill.

I can tell you that there is a cost to delivering training to staff and to people in an employment setting, in a workplace, and some of these costs are, you know, around the training itself, the people hours required to deliver the training and to ensure that people do go through all of that.

There's also the development time, and certainly on an issue like this, where there are local governments interfacing with the p rovincial government and, of course, addressing such an issue that can be as fraught as that of harassment and bullying and violence and intimidation, that it is important, you know, on occasions like that to have expertise weigh in, whether that's legal expertise, whether that's human resources expertise, whether that's human rights expertise. And so, of course, you know, there will likely be a cost for municipalities on that side as well.

Perhaps municipalities will look to pool resources; perhaps they will each set out to undergo their own process; perhaps the AMM will broker some of these conversations and, you know, advance some of these areas of inquiry, but there will be a need for real and ongoing support. And so I would put it to the government that they need to be there, if and when they pass this law, not only to put the law on the books but also to put the resources there in the community to ensure that each and every municipality is able to live up to the spirit

December 4, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 379 and intent of the bill that is being brought before the House of today. * (15:40) Some possible ways that this could be done is perhaps, you know, provincial resources could be developed towards the training itself, or perhaps a draft template that may meet the legislative and regulatory criteria but that municipalities would be able to customize based on their own situations and the expertise contained therein.

We also know that training resources could be deployed on a provincial scale particularly targeted towards those small er municipalities and councils who don't have a significant capacity. Again, I think you and I have both travelled across the province and we've seen that there are some municipalities with, you know, tons of resources at their disposal. There's other municipalities that are very humble–though no less dedicated–operations and so the Province may consider its duty to step in and ensure that there is equitable access to resources in some of those situations as well.

So we also need to have some thought devoted to the question of compliance and also the question of oversight when it comes to this bill as well.

And when it comes to that, I would suggest for the consideration of the House today that it's not merely a question of, you know, reporting on how many incidents and, you know, what the penalties served were, but there's also returning to that idea of lifelong learning, and the fact that these policies ought to be living documents, that there needs to be oversight and consideration given to how the gov ernment is going to follow up on –if the implementation of the policy is one level, then this level that I'm talking about would be the meta -level examination of this issue now before us in the Legislature today.

So we need to work together, both, you know, on a political level, on a provincial level, on a municipal level, but also across our society, to begin to ensure that everyone's protected and everyone is supported when they come to work on behalf of the great people of Manitoba. So safe work places, free of harassment and violence and intimidation and bullying, are critical to our goal of creating a society with a culture of consent. We also know that it's also going to lead to a more eff

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	41-4-10b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	41st 4th hansardpdf 10b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	7f859a29c10b8d1819a3ec89d9300bd14983180e

Source file is stored in the law ingest library (pdf).