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April 29, 2004

38th Parliament, 1st Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2004-Apr-29 (PDF)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L'ONTARIO

Thursday 29 April 2004 Jeudi 29 avril 2004

PRIVATE MEMBERS'

PUBLIC BUSINESS

HEALTH INSURANCE

AMENDMENT ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR L'ASSURANCE-SANTÉ

SANDY'S LAW

(LIQUOR LICENCE AMENDMENT), 2004 /

LOI SANDY DE 2004

(MODIFICATION DE LA LOI

SUR LES PERMIS D'ALCOOL)

HEALTH INSURANCE

AMENDMENT ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR L'ASSURANCE-SANTÉ

SANDY'S LAW

(LIQUOR LICENCE AMENDMENT), 2004 /

LOI SANDY DE 2004

(MODIFICATION DE LA LOI

SUR LES PERMIS D'ALCOOL)

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

CAYUGA DRAGWAY

BRANT CITIZENS OF THE YEAR

WATER QUALITY

SYD VANDERPOOL

WATER QUALITY

OSGOODE HALL LAW STUDENTS

SOUTH ASIAN COMMUNITY

COMMUNITY LIVING OAKVILLE

COMMUNITY USE OF SCHOOLS

VISITOR

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE

ON GENERAL GOVERNMENT

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

MINISTRY OF CONSUMER AND

BUSINESS SERVICES STATUTE LAW

AMENDMENT ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

EN CE QUI CONCERNE LE MINISTÈRE DES SERVICES AUX CONSOMMATEURS ET AUX ENTREPRISES

OLYMPIC DAY ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004

SUR LA JOURNÉE OLYMPIQUE

SENATORIAL SELECTION ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004

SUR LE CHOIX DES SÉNATEURS

MOTIONS

PRIVATE MEMBERS' PUBLIC BUSINESS

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

CONSUMER PROTECTION /

PROTECTION DU CONSOMMATEUR

FOREST INDUSTRY

CONSUMER PROTECTION

FOREST INDUSTRY

CONSUMER PROTECTION

MEMBER'S BIRTHDAY

CANADIAN WOMEN'S HOCKEY TEAM

ORAL QUESTIONS

TAXATION

CITIZENS' DIALOGUE

ON BUDGET STRATEGY

SOCIAL ASSISTANCE

CITIZENS' DIALOGUE

ON BUDGET STRATEGY

OHIP SERVICES

FOREST INDUSTRY

CHILDREN'S MENTAL

HEALTH SERVICES

EMPLOYMENT STANDARDS

PRIVATE CLINICS

SERVICES FOR DISABLED CHILDREN

ECONOMIC POLICY

WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT

HIGHWAY IMPROVEMENT

ENERGY ASSISTANCE FUND

LONG-TERM CARE

CONSUMER PROTECTION

TRUCKING INDUSTRY

PETITIONS

AUTISM SERVICES

SOCIAL ASSISTANCE

GO TRANSIT SERVICE

TILLSONBURG DISTRICT

MEMORIAL HOSPITAL

SOCIAL ASSISTANCE

ALEXANDER GRAHAM BELL PARKWAY

ONTARIO DRUG BENEFIT PROGRAM

SOCIAL ASSISTANCE

PROPERTY TAXATION

SOCIAL ASSISTANCE

IMMIGRANTS' SKILLS

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

NOTICE OF DISSATISFACTION

ORDERS OF THE DAY

EMPLOYMENT STANDARDS AMENDMENT ACT

(FAMILY MEDICAL LEAVE), 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR LES NORMES D'EMPLOI

(CONGÉ FAMILIAL

POUR RAISON MÉDICALE)

ADJOURNMENT DEBATE

CITIZENS' DIALOGUE

ON BUDGET STRATEGY

TRUCKING INDUSTRY

The House met at 1000.

Prayers.

PRIVATE MEMBERS'

PUBLIC BUSINESS

HEALTH INSURANCE

AMENDMENT ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR L'ASSURANCE-SANTÉ

Mrs Witmer moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill 57,

An Act to amend the Health Insurance Act to make various immunizations insured services / Projet de loi 57, Loi modifiant la

Loi sur

l'assurance-santé afin que diverses immunisations deviennent des services assurés.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Bruce Crozier): Pursuant to standing order 96, the member has 10 minutes.

Mrs Elizabeth Witmer (Kitchener-Waterloo): I'm extremely pleased and honoured to be able to bring forward this morning my private member's bill,

Bill 57,

An Act to amend the Health Insurance Act to make various immunizations insured services. This is an issue that is certainly near and dear to my heart, as a former Minister of Health and

certainly as a parent and as someone who has met with families who, as a result of this immunization not being available in earlier years, have lost children to disease or children have suffered

disabilities as a result of contracting meningitis or chicken pox.

The timing of this bill today is particularly appropriate, although I don't think anybody has given me this time because of that. This is actually National

Immunization Awareness Week; it is from April 25 to May 1. So this week gives us all an opportunity to focus on the importance of providing to our children vaccinations for preventable

diseases.

This bill in front of us today amends the Health Insurance Act to specifically provide for immunization against chicken pox, pneumococcal and meningococcal

disease. It also provides that it would be universally accessible; in other words, covered by the Ontario health insurance plan.

I know this is an issue that is also near and dear to the hearts of the government members. They did make a commitment in their election document to provide

chicken pox and meningitis vaccines to children, so I know that there is support for this bill from all sides of the House. In fact, recently the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care did appear on

TV and indicate that certainly immunization was a priority for him, and he promised that he would take action. So today we have an opportunity to provide hope to parents who have lobbied long and

hard to make these vaccines universally accessible to their children.

There is one woman in my community, Kathryn Blain, who lost a son to meningitis and who was recently here at Queen's Park with the Meningitis Research Foundation

of Canada. She wants a universal meningitis immunization program for two types of bacterial meningitis -- pneumococcal and meningococcal -- and that is what is included in my bill. She was here and

met with all of us, and left here feeling very optimistic that there did seem to be a commitment and that this would be a priority.

I think she and others recognize that we now have vaccines available, and these vaccines, if they had been available earlier, could have saved the life of her

son. This is what she says: "I truly hope in my lifetime to see not another family suffer from this disease, and if that happens, it will be worth all the effort myself and my board members have

made."

It's important for us, then, to move forward on behalf of families in Ontario. This bill will give us the opportunity to provide chicken pox, pneumococcal and

meningococcal vaccines to all children in this province, free of charge and at the behest of families. It will be up to them to make the decision.

I just want to begin by recognizing the importance of immunization with an excerpt from the Canadian Immunization Guide. They say: "Disease prevention with

immunization is the most cost-effective health care intervention available. Because immunization inhibits the spread of the disease, entire populations can be protected from the impacts of illness

and death from vaccine-preventable diseases. With the exception of clean drinking water, no other human intervention has had the impact of vaccination on reducing infectious disease -- not even

antibiotics."

That statement speaks volumes to the importance of not only immunization but also the need to ensure that vaccinations are universally accessible to all

children.

Presently, these vaccines are universally accessible to children in other parts of the world, such as the United States, and in some Canadian provinces. However,

they are not in the province of Ontario. Although they are available, you can only get them if you can afford to pay for them. But recently, the National Advisory Committee on Immunization, a

committee that included Ontario representation, has recommended that all children except those with specific allergies receive these vaccines.

I would like to share with you a little bit about the impact of these diseases and why it's so urgent to move forward. We've certainly heard from Kathryn Blain,

but according to the Canadian Paediatric Society, pneumococcus is the leading cause of invasive bacterial infections in young children. In Canada, in children under five, it causes approximately 65

cases of meningitis, 700 cases of bacteremia, 2,200 cases of pneumonia requiring hospitalization and 9,000 cases of pneumonia treated on an outpatient basis. About 15 deaths are attributed to

it.

In the case of chicken pox, according to the Canada Communicable Disease Report, volume 30, from February 2004, the medical and societal costs of chicken pox in

Canada have been estimated to be $122.4 million annually. So, again, there is a huge cost, but what is so regrettable is the loss of life and the disability for children if they do contract these

diseases.

I believe we in this House have a responsibility to make certain that parents in the future have the opportunity to have their children vaccinated, if that is

their choice. This bill would provide coverage by the Ontario health insurance plan; however, it would not be added to the list of diseases in the Immunization of School Pupils Act and would be

excluded as well from the Day Nurseries Act. This would give parents the choice as to whether they wished to have their children vaccinated, as is currently the case with hepatitis B. Parents can

choose based on the information available then, not based on whether they can afford it, as is, regrettably, presently the case.

This legislation would make these vaccinations an insured service whereby the vaccination would be bought by the government and the government would pay doctors

for the administration of the vaccine. Presently that happens differently. Parents must get a prescription from a doctor and purchase the vaccines themselves, bringing them back to the office to

receive immunization. I have received this information from the region of Waterloo. They go on to say that this creates inequity, because only a small percentage of parents are getting their

children immunized. Part of the reason is that these three new vaccines are expensive for children. According to the region of Waterloo public health, it costs $700 to $800 per child to get all

three vaccines up to age 18 months. That is why it's so important that we make this available to the children in our province.

Prime Minister Paul Martin in his 2004 federal budget has proposed $300 million for a national immunization strategy to ensure that children across Canada have

equal access to vaccines. Certainly our province is now in the position of having access to the federal funding, and I know that two days ago the Manitoba government announced that they would be

providing these three vaccines as part of their childhood immunization program at no cost to Manitoba families. Surely, our children deserve the same.

I would encourage the House today to recognize the need for our children to have access to these vaccinations that will help reduce the death and serious

complications of meningitis and chicken pox.

Ms Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): It's a pleasure for me to participate in the debate today on behalf of New Democrats. I want to say that of

course we support the private member's bill that is being brought forward. I appreciate it being brought forward today by the member for Kitchener-Waterloo. I have lots of time for her, and I

appreciate the hard work she does. But I'm frustrated today to have to say that had we had some support on this matter from the former government, frankly, we would have been vaccinating for

meningitis at least three years ago.

I want to give a little bit of history about how our party has tried to make this a public issue and tried very hard to get the former government to at least

move on the vaccination for meningitis. I appreciate this private member's bill includes other vaccinations. I know that's supported by public health units and medical officers of health, and I

support it too.

But starting in July 2001, our party first called on the former government to at that time put in place a province-wide vaccination program for meningitis. My

colleague Marilyn Churley did a press release on July 19 calling on the Minister of Health at the time, Tony Clement, to move in this regard. We did that because the provinces of Quebec and Alberta

had, just at the start of that summer, put in place two programs in their own jurisdictions. In Alberta, in April 2001, they launched a province-wide meningitis immunization program for youth, and

in July, Quebec announced free vaccinations for 1.7 million adults and youngsters that were going to start that fall. So we started our call for that vaccination program then.

In September, as school was starting back, we had a press conference here at Queen's Park. Our leader, Howard Hampton, along with Dr Ron Gold, who is an expert

in this matter -- Dr Gold is professor emeritus of pediatrics at the faculty of medicine at the University of Toronto, the former head of infectious diseases at the Hospital for Sick Children, and

medical adviser to the Meningitis Research Foundation of Canada, and we were very pleased that Dr Gold participated with our leader on September 7, 2001, calling on the Conservative government at

the time to move forward. He made it very clear from the perspective of his expertise -- and he has a lot of expertise -- that this was a fundamental issue of protecting both infants and

adolescents from a disease that they could be protected from.

Later that fall, the National Advisory Committee on Immunization released a report that very clearly said there were vaccinations available that were safe,

starting for infants of two months right through to adolescents. We did a question to the Minister of Health on October 23, 2001, in the wake of the release of that report, asking him if he was

prepared to have Ontario follow the lead of Quebec and Alberta and bring forward a province-wide strategy. We pointed out that Ontario had usually followed any recommendations that had been issued

by the national advisory committee, and it was incumbent on Ontario to follow on this particular recommendation with respect to meningitis.

Unfortunately, the response we got at the time was that the government was reviewing the matter but the government really wanted the support and participation

and the funding, frankly, of the federal government before they moved forward. I pointed out to the minister in my response that Ontario should show some leadership in this regard. Quebec and

Alberta already had. It was a serious public health issue in Ontario because in 2001 eight people died of meningitis and 65 others were seriously affected, and we should agree that it was a serious

public health issue and we should move forward even if it meant moving forward on our own.

We followed up on the issue again on January 15, 2002, in an open letter to the then Premier, Mike Harris, and to the then Minister of Health, Tony Clement,

again urging them to move forward on this issue. Finally, on February 8, 2002, we got a response back from the Minister of Health. While he talked about the need to do something and his recognition

of what the advisory council had to say -- that is, that there was a safe vaccine -- he pointed out again that Ontario at that point was just reviewing the matter and that no decision had been

made.

Well, while there was a review going on, another adolescent died of meningitis in the province of Ontario. This time, 17-year-old Michael Maxwell of Ingersoll,

Ontario, contracted meningitis C at the end of March 2002 and died in 29 hours as a result of contracting this terrible disease. His family was not aware there was a vaccination program; his family

in fact had a policy of coverage through their union which would have allowed them to have that vaccine paid for through the employer. They didn't know any of this, and this was a terrible tragedy

for them. They came to Queen's Park and on April 5 did a press conference with me, just after the death of their son, calling on the provincial government to fully fund this vaccination so that no

other Ontario family would suffer the tragedy they had suffered. They were very courageous to do that at that time, and they have continued to pursue this matter by writing federal and provincial

politicians. They were in fact featured on W-Five earlier this February talking very publicly about the need to move on this.

As a consequence of their courage in coming forward, we developed, and I introduced on June 13, 2003,

An Act in memory of Michael Maxwell. That would have made a

change to Ontario's Health Insurance Act to ensure that there would be a province-wide vaccination program, fully funded by the province, right from two months into the early 20s. That was Bill

Three times I have introduced

An Act in memory of Michael Maxwell to try to convince both the former government and this current government that the right thing

to do was to institute a province-wide program so that we could immunize children against meningitis C and protect some of our youngest and most vulnerable Ontarians against this dreadful disease.

Three times I've introduced it, and unfortunately my name, in the rotation, has never come up in time to actually debate the bill. So I'm glad the member from Kitchener-Waterloo has an opportunity

today and I can make the points I am.

But I want to state very clearly that I think it is regrettable that we could not seem to get the support either from the former government or, frankly, to date

from the current government to just unanimously support that bill for second and third reading and put in place a system of immunization that would truly protect some of our youngest and most

vulnerable citizens.

The fact of the matter is that it is very cost-prohibitive for parents to pay for some of these vaccinations. When we had our children vaccinated against

meningitis C, it cost $113 per child. If you have a couple of children and you are vaccinating against both meningitis and chicken pox, it becomes very costly. Most insurance plans do not cover the

cost of these vaccinations, so parents are put in the very difficult situation of making choices between whether they can afford to do this and what happens if they don't.

The other problem is that there hasn't been a lot of public education about how serious some of these childhood diseases are, so many parents don't even

understand how important it is to get this kind of vaccination.

I support the bill today because it is time that we protected some of our youngest and most vulnerable citizens, not just against meningitis C but against the

other childhood diseases that the member from Kitchener-Waterloo has noted.

I say again that I regret that we could not get support on this matter, at least with respect to meningitis C, a long time ago, because New Democrats were

calling on the former government and the current government, through three private members' bills, to do this as early as July 2001. If we had done it then, Michael Maxwell would be alive today and

other young people and adolescents would not be suffering the debilitating consequences of meningitis they are today.

I hope all members support this bill. If the current government is going to do something, maybe they should just pass this bill at second and third reading today

and get it done.

Mr Dave Levac (Brant): Thank you for the opportunity to speak to Bill 57, introduced by Liz Witmer. I take on face value that this particular

bill encompasses more than strictly smallpox, chicken pox and meningitis. I compliment her for the depth to which she has taken a look at this and spread it to many more areas and

opportunities.

I want to spend just a moment to talk a little about private members' public business. This is the one place in which all members get to bring those ideas to the

House, supposedly without partisan ideas or along party lines; where we introduce bills that we think would be for the betterment. The member from the NDP has indicated her struggle and fight for

bringing her bill forward since 2001. I remind the House that I've got a bill that would save lives as well, and it has taken three attempts.

I understand and respect what the process is about; that is, governments that are elected have their mandate and have directions and decisions on which way they

want to go. Private members' business is an attempt to bring those particular issues that may or may not be on the radar screen.

The previous government had eight years and did things they thought were respected and understood to be a priority and did go in that direction. Our government

is going to be doing the same thing. We did take action. The member did acknowledge immediately -- and I compliment and thank her for that -- that we did move on chicken pox and we are moving on

meningitis. In terms of the direction we want to go, we agree with the former minister that this is a direction we want to go for the people of Ontario, particularly for our children.

As a former principal in an elementary school system, I was exposed to the health units process that we have in our schools to immunize our students on a regular

basis. I'll go back even further than that. I still have that little button -- we used to call it the button of our immunizations. For those that have modern needles, we don't have that any more.

But we have that little button on our shoulder to remind us of the fact that we did get our shots.

I want to come back to the principle that there are some people out there -- and I would say I'm a little concerned about it, but they have the right, because

it's written into the law, to remove their child from immunization. I've had to actually talk to parents about that and acknowledge that they do have that right. They signed a paper that said that

either for religious or conscientious objector reasons they wanted to remove their children from that process.

More importantly, we do have the science behind this. That's the important thing I'd like to point out. The science is telling us quite clearly that this is a

lifesaver. These are lifesavers here, and wherever we can forward the cause of saving children's lives -- I will put a pitch in again, one more, it's probably a little shameless, that my

anaphylaxis bill is in the general government committee right now. The government has indicated that kids can die in two minutes with anaphylactic shock, and they need to have a standard of

behaviour across schools in Ontario.

These are the types of things -- and I compliment the member for that as well -- that in private members' public business we step forward and say, "These things

are not party-bound." We can all do that, and I think we all will do that. We'll say, "This is what we did, this is what you did, and this is what they did." Having said that, once we put it all

altogether, we're still headed in the same direction.

I can tell the member that we are going to support the bill and understand the direction she wants to go. She has admitted -- not "admitted"; I don't even want

to use that word. She has acknowledged that all people have tried to move this thing forward. Acknowledging that makes this a better place, because we're not speaking for us in here. What we're

speaking for are the people out there. The thing I want to keep driving home is that we are representing them; and if we're representing them, we're looking for the areas in which we can take it

back and say, "We tried to do our best for the people of Ontario."

Private members' time is the time when we can really get some stuff done that speaks to what people are talking about, not just simply an agenda that we as

Liberals, PCs or NDP present, because those ideas are sacred as well. I want to make sure it's clear that when we speak, we speak as a collective voice when we find the issue we can all agree on

and move forward. It does take time. That's the one thing in this place, when we talk about private members' business: It does take time.

We know we want to support this. We know the Minister of Health has taken steps immediately. Before the federal budget, Dalton McGuinty had gotten through a

commitment that the money would flow. I think it's somewhere around $300 million that's going to come back to the provinces. We're getting a chunk of that. We've started the meningitis and the

chicken pox, and we're going to move forward.

The concept and the ideas presented here by the former minister are well appreciated. Knowing that, we will be moving this forward as quickly as possible.

Thank you for the opportunity. I look forward to supporting the member.

Mr Ted Arnott (Waterloo-Wellington): About a month ago, I saw a documentary movie called The Fog of War. In this extraordinary movie, Robert

McNamara, the former United States Secretary of Defense, talks candidly about his life in public service, the things he worked to achieve, his triumphs and successes, his mistakes and regrets. But

his eyes lit up, and he spoke with devotion, when he talked about President Kennedy and the privilege he had enjoyed when he served in the Kennedy administration. It was almost as if he was saying,

as the highlight of his career in public service, "I served with John F. Kennedy."

Watching the movie and reflecting upon my own public service in this place, it struck me that when my time in the Legislature is completed, whenever that may be,

I will look back; and when people ask me what I did at Queen's Park, I will proudly answer, "I served with Elizabeth Witmer."

To say that I have enormous respect for the member for Kitchener-Waterloo would be an understatement. I've come to know her well over the last 14 years. Her

commitment and dedication to the people of her riding and the province have been an inspiration to many of us in our caucus, myself included. She works very, very hard. She's smart and knows how to

obtain the results she wants to benefit her constituents.

As a minister in the Conservative government from 1995 to 2003, as Minister of Labour she rebalanced the labour laws and fixed the Workers' Compensation

Board.

As Minister of Health for almost three and a half years -- the toughest job in government -- she supported health professionals, initiated primary care reform

leading to the establishment of family health networks, emphasized wellness and promoted healthy lifestyles, expanded long-term care and home care, and built or rebuilt hospitals across

Ontario.

As Minister of the Environment, she brought in groundbreaking legislation to sustain and expand recycling programs.

As Minister of Education and Deputy Premier, she rebuilt bridges with education professionals and supported improved student achievement. She appointed Dr

Mordechai Rozanski to review education funding, and she immediately announced almost $2 billion in new education funding in response to his findings.

This is only a short list of the highlights of her accomplishments, but I had the good fortune to serve as her parliamentary assistant for a period of time and I

had the chance to attend some of her public events.

I will relate one story when, as Minister of Education, she visited a high school in Guelph, College Heights Secondary School. It was early on a Monday morning,

and we met some of the school board officials, staff, administrators and teachers. After the bell rang and the school day began, we went around and toured some of the classrooms and spent a few

minutes with a teacher who was employing a new teaching method to help students who were in high school but couldn't read or were actually reading at a primary school level.

This teacher, without boasting, talked about the incredible improvements some of her students had achieved. Many of them, now reading at their actual grade

level, inspired by this caring teacher, were now expressing a realistic desire to pursue careers in the skilled trades. This teacher had dedicated her life to helping students succeed -- the ones

who were struggling, who needed a hand up, who without the special attention of a special teacher would never, ever reach their full potential.

Elizabeth was very impressed with this teacher, to say the least. Now, in a sense this was just one brief interaction in one school in Guelph. But in a larger

sense, what was interesting about this event is that College Heights Secondary School specializes in teaching students who will be going directly to work, the kids we speak of as being "at risk."

the fact that when Elizabeth had been a teacher, her professional career had drawn her to want to help the kids who needed her most -- the students at College Heights. She was that kind of teacher,

and she's been that kind of MPP.

As such, it's not surprising that as our party's health critic, she would bring forward Bill 57. Bill 57 gives all members of this House a chance to support

immunization against diseases that can severely debilitate or even kill a child.

Earlier this week, I sent a copy of this bill to the public health units that serve my riding of Waterloo-Wellington and asked the medical officers of health for

their thoughts on it. I received word back the same day from Dr Troy Herrick, the medical officer of health for Wellington-Dufferin-Guelph. The ideas he put forward are very helpful and they

support Bill 57. I want to share some of the insights that he provided.

Putting the issue of immunization in a broader perspective, Dr Herrick advised me of the tremendous effectiveness of public immunization programs in winning

previous battles against deadly diseases. Taking the example of the measles, he advised that prior to vaccination, over 300,000 cases occurred annually in Canada, and each year there were 300 to

900 deaths. By 2001, an effective vaccination strategy reduced the annual occurrence from 300,000 down to a scant 33 cases -- a greater than 99% reduction in the incidence of measles.

Polio vaccine was introduced in the 1960s. Before the vaccine was available, there were 20,000 cases of this disease annually and parents were absolutely

terrified at even the thought or the prospect of the word "polio." In 2001, there were no cases of polio in Canada, and polio is approaching worldwide eradication as a result of the immunization

programs that we've pursued.

From this viewpoint, Dr Herrick has portrayed the effectiveness of immunization in saving lives and preventing serious illness in Canada and points to the need

to take further action in Ontario. He has also painted a picture of children in Ontario who have been left behind with respect to immunization for chicken pox, pneumonia and meningitis, diseases

that we can help prevent by voting for Bill 57 this morning.

Doctor Herrick informed me as to why these diseases need to be prevented. When we think of chicken pox, many people may assume that it's a rather harmless rite

of passage, because almost every child gets it. The reality is that as many as six out of 1,000 children who get chicken pox have to be admitted to a hospital. Chicken pox can lead to infectious

diseases that can even cause the flesh-eating disease, and deaths, although infrequent, do occur from chicken pox.

The information also contains a figure measuring the cost of chicken pox at $122.4 million a year, attributed to personal expenses, lost productivity and the use

of the medical system: an incredible figure. Using this example, I think the health unit has demonstrated why an ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure. On meningitis, Dr Herrick

advises that it has a significant mortality rate of 20% to 40%, making it one of the most feared when it enters the community. Pneumonia can also be deadly: It leads to the death of an average of

15 children under the age of five each year in Canada.

How have children in Ontario been left behind? Consider this quote from the information I received from Dr Herrick: "Currently Ontario is one of only four

jurisdictions in Canada that does not provide a comprehensive, publicly funded program for all children for at least one of these vaccines. As a result, most parents must arrange for payment for

these vaccines either personally, sometimes at prohibitive costs to families, or through their own private insurance."

The cost of the complete set of vaccinations today could run families between $700 and $800 dollars. This is clearly unaffordable to thousands of families in

the province. Dr Herrick supports this legislation for us this morning by having said the following: "It is believed that bulk purchases of these vaccines under a publicly funded vaccination

program, as a result of Bill 57 would significantly reduce the per dose cost of each vaccine, resulting in significant cost savings to the province, perhaps even as high as 25% to 50%."

I'm also very glad to have received information on the same day that I requested it from Dr Liana Nolan, commissioner and medical officer of health for the

Waterloo region. Her information also supports full coverage for an immunization program as is outlined by Bill 57. Dr Nolan makes a very strong point in noting that the current system places the

onus on parents to go out and buy vaccines at the drugstore and then make another appointment to go back to the doctor who must then in turn administer the shots. I would add that there are

thousands of families who simply cannot afford the cost, and if the vaccine is not covered by the province, by Ontario's public system of health care, the parents will question the urgency of the

immunization and will be less likely to get it for their children.

Typically, parents maintain an immunization

schedule or checklist provided to them by their health unit or doctor for each child. If diseases like meningitis

and chicken pox aren't on the list and it's expensive and onerous to get the vaccine, it's far less likely that children are going to get all the shots they need to ensure that they're going to

stay healthy. But by passing this bill today with a strong, and I would hope unanimous, vote -- I was encouraged by the comments of the Liberal whip -- we will help ensure that every parent and

child's immunization checklist is full and complete.

Mr Jeff Leal (Peterborough): It is indeed a pleasure to take some time this morning in order to support the member for Kitchener-Waterloo on

Bill 57. I've always been a great admirer of the member. I had the opportunity over the winter months to travel with her on the general government committee dealing with Bill 31, the health care

privacy legislation. It was a real positive education for me to be with the member for Kitchener-Waterloo, based on her great experience and depth of knowledge in the area of provision of health

care in Ontario. So she certainly provided a great deal of background for the committee and was very helpful as we worked through the issues surrounding Bill 31.

She does come from a long line of political leaders in Kitchener-Waterloo. During my municipal career, I had the opportunity to meet Herb Epp, who was the

former member for Kitchener-Waterloo and who served as mayor of Waterloo for a long time, and before that, of course, the late Ed Good, who was recognized as an individual who was a leader in

municipal policy in Ontario. The member for Kitchener-Waterloo is a worthy inheritor of that mantle from those previous members of that area.

To get on with the bill that the member has put forward, it's a real opportunity to advance the number of areas we might cover through immunization in

Ontario.

Growing up in Peterborough, I remember that at one time all the children on the whole street were suffering from chicken pox. While it was an opportunity to be

out of school, indeed it wasn't a very pleasant experience to go through the suffering of chicken pox. It seemed to go right through the whole school community when I was in grades 2 and 3.

But I learned after that, by spending some time with Dr Garry Humphreys, the medical officer of health in the Peterborough area, that many years ago,

particularly for males, there was a link between having had chicken pox and the inability to have children down the road. If vaccination had been provided on a widespread basis, many of these

things that cropped up later wouldn't be with us in our communities.

It's really the mark of a civil society when we use public policy and public funds to try to eradicate many of these very serious diseases and conditions we

face. It's not a partisan issue. It's something we want to move forward on for the good of our communities when we ask our public health insurance, OHIP, to cover these types of activities.

We are pleased, in our platform document, to talk about the need to expand what is covered through a more massive immunization in Ontario to make our citizens

much more healthy. If we spend additional dollars upfront in the early stages to provide a wide-ranging immunization program, indeed we know that for sure down the road we'll be able to save our

health care system additional dollars. The health care budget in Ontario for the last number of years has increased at an annual rate of some 8% to 10%, which I believe we all recognize is not

sustainable over a long period of time.

Private members' time is certainly an opportunity to look at good ideas brought forward by all members of the Legislature. For me as a new member, it's a

particularly invigorating time to be here, to hear ideas and concepts from all sides of the House to make Ontario a much better place to live.

For example, with regard to measles, at one time here in Canada over 300,000 cases of measles occurred. When I looked at that number, I found it quite

shocking. I didn't realize it was quite that high. When you think that 5% of that population, mostly children, over a period of time have died from measles, it truly is an important issue that we

want to move forward.

I thank the member from Kitchener-Waterloo, with her experience in the health care field, for bringing this private member's bill forward this morning. I

intend to support it because it's important to the children in my riding of Peterborough that we provide a great deal of coverage, umbrella coverage, to provide an immunization program for these

individuals.

Mr Speaker, I'll be sharing some of my time with the member from Ancaster-Dundas-Flamborough-Aldershot.

Mr Joseph N. Tascona (Barrie-Simcoe-Bradford): I'm very pleased to speak on the bill,

An Act to amend the Health Insurance Act and to make

various immunizations insured services.

I am the father of a number of children in the school system. The work done by the Simcoe county health unit, in terms of making sure that the public health is

protected and that young children are protected -- it goes without saying the intent of this bill with respect to childhood immunization is a very important and serious public health issue.

I want to quote from some information I have, an

article about immunization.

"Because of vaccines, these diseases are no longer common in Canada. However, it is still important to immunize your child for the following reasons:

"When immunization rates drop, these diseases come back. For example, a drop in... (whooping cough) vaccinations in Britain in 1974 was followed by a whooping

cough epidemic that killed 36 people in 1978.

"Diseases do not stop at borders. People can carry vaccine-preventable diseases into Canada and spread them to children who are not vaccinated.

"To protect others. Some people can't have vaccines because of allergies or other reasons. An unvaccinated child with a vaccine-preventable disease is a threat

to these people."

We have a role in this Legislature. The former Minister of Health and Long-Term Care has recognized that with this amendment to the Health Insurance Act, which

adds, for payment as an insured service, vaccinations for chicken pox, pneumococcal disease and meningococcal disease. It's very important that we act on this as quickly as possible.

It also says in the article:

"Vaccines in Canada are safe, and the benefits of immunization far outweigh the risks. There is no reason to suffer from a disease if there is a safe and

effective way to prevent it.

"Many youngsters have some swelling or tenderness at the spot where the vaccine is injected, and some may also develop a mild fever, but these reactions are

minor and temporary. Serious side effects such as severe allergic reactions can occur, but are extremely rare, and occur in Canada less often than once per million doses of vaccine.

"On the other hand, the diseases that vaccines fight pose serious threats. Diseases such as polio, diphtheria, measles and whooping cough can lead to

paralysis, pneumonia, choking, brain damage, heart problems, and even death in children who are not protected."

This is a very serious issue, an issue that needs to be acted on now. It should not be based on your ability to pay. It should not be a situation where others

are put at risk because of an oversight of the health care system, an oversight which should not exist any more. The member has put forth a bill here that deserves everyone's support, and I'm sure

it is going to get it.

The Deputy Speaker: Further debate? The member for Ancaster-Dundas-Flamborough-Aldershot.

Mr Ted McMeekin (Ancaster-Dundas-Flamborough-Aldershot): Just wait until the name changes, Mr Speaker, to Ancaster-Dundas-Flamborough-West

Hamilton. It's going to be even more cumbersome.

As you might expect, Speaker, and as members of the Legislative Assembly who frequent this place would expect, I am up in support of the member from

Kitchener-Waterloo's bill. Everybody has had so many nice things to say about the honourable member opposite that one quivers at the thought of what might have happened had a different leadership

choice been made on the other side of the House.

Anyhow, as fate would have it, we're in government and the honourable member for Kitchener-Waterloo, with her value base, has made an appropriate intervention

here.

Frankly, that's what we're here to do. We come together every morning, Mr Speaker, and you lead us in prayer. You call for guidance, that we might have a deep

and thorough understanding of why it is we're here. I've often thought that the deepest and most thorough understandings that evolve in this place are often in private members' business, because it

almost, by definition, allows us to be the people we really are and not those phony political, shrill partisans that we all often tend to be. It's our job to be here, and while we'll work on the

other part, for today we'll stand and celebrate together that we do, together, want to try to understand what is in the common good and act in that regard.

It's always toughest being last. I think the 11th beatitude is, "Blessed is the man who, having nothing to say, refrains from giving worthy evidence of the

fact." That having been said, let me say that in the recent election and subsequent to that, one of our five core commitments was to try to build the healthiest Ontario possible. There's no doubt

in any intelligent person's mind that the way to do that is to embrace things that make sense. Immunization makes sense. You just have to look at what's happened in the past.

For example, as I understand it from some of the research I was able to do, prior to the provision of a measles vaccine, over 300,000 cases of this highly

infectious disease occurred in Canada every year and some 15,000 persons, mostly children, died. Since the introduction of a measles vaccine, those deaths have dropped to some 33 cases every year.

What more outward and visible evidence do you need than that?

Several speakers have mentioned the provision of federal dollars. In fact, in the call by Roy Romanow to enhance our national immunization strategy, he made

reference to the current strategy as being "dated" and "not as well prepared to face new and emerging problems as is necessary in a country like Canada." He also noted that in some regions of the

country, immunization rates have actually deteriorated as a result of public fear.

I think the member opposite from Kitchener-Waterloo, the member from Nickel Belt and some of the members from other ridings who have spoken understand perhaps

that good judgment is based on experience, and maybe experience invariably on bad judgment. We need to be moving forward with this together. As my mother would say, "Make mistakes, but at least

make new ones." Hopefully we can get this one behind us.

I'm pleased to be in my place today. It's our job to stand in this place and rise to the occasion and the opportunity to make a difference. I have a sign up in

my office which says, "If you do nothing else, try to leave this place just a little bit better at the end of the day than you did when you started." That doesn't always happen, but I think when I

have the privilege of being in this great people's place, one of 103 people who have the awesome responsibility of coming here and listening to other folk -- if anyone had told me last week that we

would unanimously pass a resolution to provide insulin pumps for diabetics, I would have chuckled, but that was something we happened to do. The adoption laws that one of the members opposite wants

to change and keeps bringing up -- I support that. I think at some point we need to have an impassioned debate here. And, Mrs Witmer, I certainly support your bill today.

The final thing I want to say -- and the member from Nickel Belt raised it -- is about having to make cruel choices. I grew up in a working-class family.

Sometimes the only thing we had on the kitchen table at lunchtime was elbows. Parents shouldn't have to make that difficult choice between immunizing and protecting their children and doing one of

any number of other really important things. So we need to stand together on this, and I'm pleased to stand in my place today to support the honourable member opposite.

Ms Laurie Scott (Haliburton-Victoria-Brock): I too am pleased today to rise in the Legislature in support of Bill 57, a bill brought forward

by my colleague from Kitchener-Waterloo, Elizabeth Witmer, to amend the Health Insurance Act by adding three immunizations to the list of insured services. I commend my colleague for recognizing

the need for this in the community. We need to cover the costs of vaccination for varicella, pneumococcal disease and meningococcal disease.

At this time, when the government needs to be looking at ways to reduce the overall costs of health care, and ways that these dollars can be spent in a more

productive way, they need to be looking not just at treating illnesses but also at ways of preventing illnesses and the associated human-financial costs. When parents decide they wish to provide

their children with protections that immunizations provide, they should not be prevented from obtaining the vaccinations just because they cannot afford them. This bill helps parents by giving them

the freedom to choose to immunize their children. At the same time, it will help reduce the financial pressures on the health care system.

We have all heard of many cases -- and I certainly have worked with many cases of meningitis -- and the potentially serious disease it is, and how quickly it

can come upon people. Diagnosis, certainly at times, is difficult. So prevention for meningitis is vitally important to the community.

Many people believe that chicken pox is a relatively benign childhood disease, but I think we've heard a lot of statistics here today that prove differently.

Some 350,000 children get chicken pox in Canada every year. Every year children die and thousands have serious complications. The vaccine has been approved in Canada since 1998. It is time that we

made it available to all Ontarians, not just those able to afford it.

I stand with my colleagues of the Legislature today to support Bill 57. I hope that the rest of my colleagues support this. It's important to health care in

our society to help with the prevention of disease in our province. I stand in support of Bill 57 and encourage other colleagues to support Bill 57.

The Deputy Speaker: Further debate? If not, the member for Kitchener-Waterloo has two minutes to reply.

Mrs Witmer: I do want to thank my colleagues from Brant, Nickel Belt, Waterloo-Wellington, Peterborough, Barrie-Simcoe-Bradford,

Ancaster-Dundas-Flamborough-Aldershot and Haliburton-Victoria-Brock for the unanimous support that I have received for this bill today.

When I was thinking about what I would put forward as a private member's bill, not having done one since before 1995, I thought about this issue, because I can

recall as a young girl having experienced a death in my community as a result of meningitis, and the impact that had on the family and friends and on people like myself. Then, of course, I met

other people whose lives had been changed because of meningitis and chicken pox, and death and complications as a result of these diseases.

I appreciate the support that I have received. I believe the timing is appropriate, because today in Canada and throughout the world, we have vaccinations that

can prevent these diseases. We have a federal government that has indicated that they are stepping up to the plate. We have a government in this province that has indicated that they are

supportive. So it is appropriate today, during National Immunization Awareness Week, that we move forward.

I would just like to close by quoting Kathryn Blain. As I said, she is from my community and is the founder of the Meningitis Research Foundation of Canada.

She is an individual who lost her son, Michael, tragically to meningitis. She says, and I think she says it all: "No more children should suffer when there are safe and effective vaccines available

to protect them." I thank the members of this House for being responsive to the wishes of Ontarians.

SANDY'S LAW

(LIQUOR LICENCE AMENDMENT), 2004 /

LOI SANDY DE 2004

(MODIFICATION DE LA LOI

SUR LES PERMIS D'ALCOOL)

Mr Parsons moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill 43,

An Act to amend the Liquor Licence Act by requiring signage cautioning pregnant women that the consumption of alcohol while pregnant is the cause of

Fetal Alcohol Syndrome / Projet de loi 43, Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les permis d'alcool en exigeant que soient placées des affiches avertissant les femmes enceintes que la consommation

d'alcool pendant la grossesse cause le syndrome d'alcoolisme f_tal.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Bruce Crozier): Pursuant to standing order 96, Mr Parsons has 10 minutes to lead off.

Mr Ernie Parsons (Prince Edward-Hastings): I would first like to acknowledge in the members' gallery on this side my wife, Linda, and our

children. We have walked a very tough road lately, but we walked it together and I appreciate them being here. I also thank others who have come to support this bill.

On January 29 at 9:35 am the world lost a great person and we lost a son and a brother and part of our hearts. We're left now with an empty chair at the

kitchen table and an empty bed and a house full of photographs of a young man who will always be 25. And it was preventable; it was absolutely preventable.

Our son Sandy was born with fetal alcohol syndrome. Not his fault. He had no control over that. His birth mother consumed alcohol during the pregnancy. Not her

fault either. She didn't know about that. Twenty-five years ago we didn't understand the impact of alcohol on a child. But we know now, and although we know now, we continue to have children born

with fetal alcohol syndrome. We need to get the message to women who are pregnant or who might be pregnant of how much they can change a life by having alcohol during pregnancy.

See, alcohol has a profound effect on a fetus. It slows growth and it alters growth. The primary organ that it slows and affects is the brain. It can also

cause physical disabilities.

It is very unfortunate that the most critical time for a woman to drink is on the 20th day of pregnancy when the head and the features are being formed, and

women don't know they're pregnant on the 20th day. At that time a fetus weighs about 1.5 grams. Extremely small. When a mother drinks, the alcohol immediately crosses the placenta and enters the

child, and the child's system cannot handle alcohol. So I would say to people, we know the effect of three or four beers on an adult. Try to imagine the effect of three or four beers on a 1.5-gram

fetus. It is profound.

The growth slowed by the alcohol will never be caught up. The growth stops at birth and the child is the way the child is at that stage. The effect on the

child varies depending on how much the mother drinks and at what time she drinks. It can create fetal alcohol syndrome, which is a full-blown problem, or it can create fetal alcohol spectrum

disorders, which are lesser problems but still a problem.

Our son was developmentally handicapped, and he knew that and he was terribly, terribly embarrassed about that. He consumed media. He devoured newscasts to try

to engage in conversation with the family. In our house it's a pretty good thing if you enjoy talking politics, and he worked so hard to accomplish that.

Children born with fetal alcohol syndrome have a particularly difficult time understanding consequences, understanding that if they do this, that will happen.

If they do it and it happens and it's bad, the next time they do it, it's still the first time.

Forty-two per cent of people in federal penitentiaries in Canada have fetal alcohol syndrome. What a waste of money, but even more, what a waste of people,

what a waste of talent, what a waste of potential.

We know that fetal alcohol syndrome costs society $1.5 million per individual over their lifetime; $1.5 million to provide extra supports for education, health

care and adults in group homes. But it's preventable. It is the most common form of mental retardation, and it is absolutely preventable. That's the craziness. We don't need to do research. We

don't need to commission scientists to find a cure for fetal alcohol syndrome, because there is none. But we know we can stop it simply by making women informed.

Children with fetal alcohol syndrome can also have other birth defects. Sandy died from a brain aneurysm. We met with the coroner to determine the cause of

death. I pray no one in here, in Ontario or the world has to sit down with a coroner and go over the autopsy of a child. The coroner said to me, "The brain is malformed by alcohol," and I said,

"Yes." He said, "Well then, naturally the blood vessels within the brain are malformed. The brain is a physical organ and the blood vessels are malformed." My reaction was to go, "Of course. I

should have known that." But I'm glad I didn't know that. I'm glad I didn't know there was a ticking time bomb.

We then discovered a brochure that we got about 15 years ago from the Ontario Ministry of Health and, in it, it referred to the effects of alcohol. It stated,

"It will cause deformation of the heart, and it will cause deformation of the circulation system." Now, I read that 15 years ago. I'm sure I did, and I'm sure I said, "Thank goodness that doesn't

affect us. It has nothing to do with us," and I went by it. But it was there; we knew 15 years ago that it caused these birth defects.

We know that no amount of alcohol is safe. I know everyone here, if I said to you, "What do you think of a pregnant woman using drugs?" your reaction would be,

"Never. That's the worst thing she could do." But, folks, alcohol's a drug. We tend not to think of it that way, but alcohol's a drug and it has effects on the fetus as any other drug would. It may

appear not to. There are people who can say, "Well, I know someone who drank during pregnancy and their son or their daughter was fine." But we know it has some effect.

Where it deceives us is, if there was a child who was going to be born and perhaps have an IQ of 170, the fetal alcohol spectrum disorder could lower it to

150. We say, "Well, this is a normal person." But no, there was potential loss. You see, alcohol dehydrates the brain. It takes the moisture out of the brain because it lingers in the body. The

body can't deal with it. It's very obvious if someone was going to be born with an IQ of 100 and alcohol causes it to be 70, but we know that any amount of alcohol has some effect.

Sandy's law is very simple. It's not a big stick; it's not an order. It is simply going to require signs in commercial establishments that are licensed to sell

liquor: restaurants, LCBO stores and beer stores. It's an educational bill. I truly believe that if you give people the right information, they will do the right thing. I truly believe that.

People in our province are fundamentally good, but I believe too many of them don't know. I also know that at times there is great peer pressure on an

individual to drink. This sign, hopefully, will give them some ammunition or will cause others not to put pressure on them to drink.

I've had some wonderful contacts from the brewers' association and the restaurants' association that we can get educational components included in Smart Serve,

to inform bartenders as part of their training about the effects of alcohol on pregnant women.

For the very minimal amount of investment we're going to put into this, or that restaurants and stores will, it has tremendous payback. It's difficult not to

talk dollars in the one and a half millions, but we really need to focus on how, for virtually no cost, we can change lives. The statistics tell us that about nine out of every 1,000 babies are

born with fetal alcohol syndrome. We want to get a message to women who are sexually active and not on birth control of the terrible ramifications for their child if they are pregnant and consume

alcohol.

The Deputy Speaker: Further debate?

Ms Laurie Scott (Haliburton-Victoria-Brock): I rise today in support of Bill 43, Sandy's Law, which has been brought forward by my colleague

in the Legislature from Prince Edward-Hastings. I want to first extend my formal condolences to the member and his family on the death of their son in January. It's always a tragedy when a young

person dies under any circumstances, and the suffering that is involved is truly heart-wrenching. I also want to thank the member and his family. I know that they have big hearts and are well known

in the Belleville area for all their kindness in the community toward children with disabilities, so I thank him for that.

This bill, as we know, will amend the Liquor Licence Act to require anyone selling or supplying liquor to display a sign which warns pregnant women of the

dangers of drinking alcohol while pregnant. If a woman drinks while pregnant, it will have an effect on the fetus from mild to very severe.

Let me take a minute to review some of the statistics surrounding this illness. It is estimated that nine out of every 1,000 children born in Canada have fetal

alcohol syndrome. It's the leading cause of developmental disabilities among Canadian children. The cost over the lifetime of the child, without taking into account loss of potential opportunity,

is $1.5 million per person. Obviously, FASD is a life-long disability, and it can be prevented with education, support and healing. All women of child-bearing age who use alcohol are at risk of

having a child with FASD.

Fetal alcohol syndrome is characterized by abnormal facial features, growth retardation and central nervous system problems. They often suffer damage to their

heart and circulatory systems. Affected children may have physical disabilities and problems with learning, memory, attention and problem-solving, as well as social- behavioural difficulties.

One of the five broad goals to help defeat this disorder, according to Health Canada, is to increase public awareness and understanding of FASD and the impact

of alcohol use during pregnancy. The member's bill will help a great deal in achieving the first goal, by making young women aware of the risk right where the alcohol consumption takes place.

The instance of fetal alcohol syndrome in Ontario is tragic. Even if this measure can somehow make one young mother aware of the danger involved in drinking

alcohol while pregnant, it has been worth the effort. Clearly, women have the important role in prevent FASD. What is equally important, and not as clear to many, is that family, community,

governments and society all have a vital role in preventing the root causes of women's use of alcohol during pregnancy. Fetal alcohol syndrome is among a number of early childhood ailments which

are preventable in a society, if society chooses to do something about these matters.

I commend the member opposite for his efforts in this particular area, and for his strength in bringing this bill forward in what is a very difficult time for

him. I hope that we support this bill in the House and that in some small measure it helps assist in stopping this tragic and most preventable disorder.

Hon David Ramsay (Minister of Natural Resources): I'm very honoured to be asked by the proponent of this piece of legislation, the member for

Prince Edward-Hastings, who has been a good friend of mine for the last five or six years, to speak today on this issue. I wish this debate was on at 2 o'clock this afternoon, when the focus is on

this place a little more, when the gallery is filled with reporters and when the people of Ontario, by and large, focus, as they do, on question period and the issues of the day.

What we're seeing here this morning is probably the Ontario Legislature at its best. We're seeing members from all sides propose private members' bills that

are based on the betterment of the people of Ontario. We've seen that in the first hour today, with the bill in regard to inoculations that was proposed by the Conservative member, and we see and

are experiencing it right now with this bill, which comes from the heart of Ernie Parsons because of his personal life experience. In the to-and-fro of politics and the partisanship we see in this

place on a daily basis, I don't think the public sees the true motivation that most of us who are here have, and it's probably expressed at its very best on Thursday mornings.

We're very fortunate to have the private members' hour that we do. Compared to other Legislative Assemblies across this country, we're most fortunate to have

an opportunity to debate issues that legislators can bring forward and actually have an opportunity to have a vote on and move forward.

Again, I'd like to thank the member for bringing this forward. I certainly understand his motivation. Linda, it's nice to see you again. We all got to know

each other very well, because in the last Parliament we were neighbours in the offices here. I've known Ernie's dedication to children. As mentioned earlier, Linda and Ernie have fostered and

adopted many children. They have a huge family. As the previous member said, they are renowned throughout eastern Ontario as being a family that reaches out to children and helps that community and

those children, and that is a big part of their life. I don't know how they manage it when I look at what they do and the challenges they've taken on.

I would say to Ernie that while we have lived through this tragedy with him, obviously we have not been able to experience it the way he has experienced it; I

know it has been a very difficult time. I really applaud him for using this tragedy that happened to better the conditions for other children who are coming along in this society. We know the

problems that we have with behaviour in children. As the member has rightly said, we know a great part of this is caused by abuse of alcohol during pregnancy. We know this can be prevented, and

anything we can do from here to help educate people about the dangers of the use of alcohol during pregnancy is going to go a long way to improving society in this province.

This is a bill worthy of everybody's support. I know I will be supporting it. I believe everyone will be supporting this. I ask you to do that. We could really

move the yardstick a long way by supporting this bill to protect the future children of this province.

Mrs Elizabeth Witmer (Kitchener-Waterloo): It certainly is a privilege to be able to support Bill 43, Sandy's Law. When Ernie came to visit me

and told me about the bill he was introducing and the reasons behind the bill, I realized immediately that it was a piece of legislation that would give meaning to all that had happened to Sandy,

to Ernie and to their family. I can tell you that our caucus has more speakers than we have time. We are extremely anxious to support you and your family. We offer our condolences to you, and we

are all going to be supporting this bill.

Fetal alcohol syndrome is a very serious condition. We've heard the impact it has had on Sandy's life and the lives of others, and it certainly deserves our

swift support today. We need to take those steps that are so necessary to educate and raise the awareness of women who are expecting, but we also need to make sure that by posting this signage we

can raise the awareness of their friends, their spouses and others who can alert them to the consequences of consuming alcohol during pregnancy. The Canadian Paediatric Society has said that FAS

has been recognized as one of the leading causes of preventable birth defects and developmental delay in children. Cerainly, we must ensure that this message is passed on to expectant mothers who

may, in turn, then abstain from alcohol consumption during their term.

I will be supporting this bill, and our caucus will be. I just want you to know, Ernie, I've known for a long time -- when I went to Belleville, I heard about

the generous and kind hearts that you and your wife had. I learned about the many children you had fostered and adopted. I'll tell you, this House is so much the richer because of kind, caring,

compassionate individuals like you, and I just thank the people of your community for having elected you to represent them.

Ms Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): I just want to say to Ernie Parsons and Linda and the family who are here today that we are very sorry

about the death of your son, and on behalf of all New Democrats, I bring condolences today.

For all of us who have children, no matter how old they are, whether they're birth children or adopted chilren, children are our children and we love them

unconitionally. As a birth mother who gave a child up for adoption and found him several years ago, and also, of course, having raised my daughter, it is my worst nightmare, as it is every parent's

worst nightmare, to lose a child. My heart goes out to you.

Ernie and I talked, and I want to thank him for the letter he wrote to me asking for my support. Of course, we all support the bill today. It's courageous and

I expect in some ways difficult to be coming forward with somehing that's so close to the grief that I'm sure you're still feeling. I thank you for bringing this forward and drawng on what must be

and will continue to be a very painful part of your life to do something for the public good.

When somebody dies so young, I guess the best thing we can do after that as parents is to try to draw on that and do something good, to leave a legacy for

Sandy that he will not have lived and died in vain. His life meant a great deal to you, and now, as we pass this bill, his life, in a way, will continue on. Even if it just saves a few others over

the years from experiencing this syndrome, it will have been worth it.

So I'm here today to say that I support the bill and very much want to see it go through as quickly as possible. Of course, as you pointed out, one of the

diffiulties is that -- and this is new to us -- we didn't know that drinking in the very early stages of pregnancy -- you don't know. That is the problem and that is why it is so important to

educate women of child-bearing years.

Women have a special place on this earth: We bear children. We carry these children in our bodies and give birth to them. Therefore, we have a particular

responsiility as well. So when feminists and women call for equality, we certainly mean equality but we also accept that there are certain differences between men and women, and this is a major

one.

I liken it a bit to second-hand smoke. There were days when people smoked and we didn't even know that it caused damage to the smoker. Then it become obvious

that it could cause lung cancer and other kinds of illnesses, but we still didn't know it could harm the fetus or that, through second-hand smoke, it could literlly kill people who didn't smoke. It

has taken a number of years, and it's still an ongoing struggle, to get the message out there that when you smoke, you're not just hurting yourself; you're hurting those around you with the

second-hand smoke. This syndrome is the same kind of scenario.

I've got to tell you, Ernie, before you brought this to my attention, I didn't know -- and I'm pretty up on these things, as an environmental activist

interested in public health -- that drinking alcohol in those very early stages of pregnancy could impact so severely on the child. Now knowing that, I want to let as many young women and young

men, all of our society, know the impact, should a women get pregnant without knowing it and be drinking alcohol. For me, that is the most dangerous period, because I think the majority of women

and men now recognize, once you know that you're carrying a child, that you shouldn't drink and smoke. Most of the women I know are very, very responsible about that. But the danger is in that

period of time when a woman may be pregnant and not know it.

Certainly things are different these days from the days when I became pregnant with my first child. Birth control wasn't so available then. There were a lot of

women, more so than today, who got accidentally pregnant. Of course, I'm sure there are many children today as well, many of us in here, who may have started off as accidents. In many cases, it's

sometimes very difficult to predict when a pregnancy is going to happen.

That is why it is so critical and so important that we start this education process now. This is a good beginning. Putting signs and notices in bars and LCBO

and Beer Stores is critically important. I think that we have to go beyond that over time and find other means and ways through our municipalities and their public health departments, our community

health centres, our doctor's offices, every avenue we can find to let people know about the dangers of this syndrome.

I want to commend the member for bringing this forward today. I think there's no doubt that it will pass. I'm not sure; the member will probably want to take

it out to committee, so that through regulation, I assume, we can determine the issues around signage and size, make sure that we do the very best we can to make these signs as visible as possible

and discuss as well how we might come up with some other means, some other ways to advertise, educate and let the people of this province know the dangers of drinking alcohol during early

pregnancy.

Thank you for bringing this forward today. I look forward to working with you to make sure that this bill, Sandy's Law, becomes a reality.

Ms Judy Marsales (Hamilton West): I'm very pleased to support the proposed Bill 43, Sandy's Law, that will make it a requirement that signs be

posted where alcohol is sold to make pregnant women aware of the risks that drinking presents to their unborn child.

All of us in this room have varying degrees of understanding of exactly what are the effects of fetal alcohol syndrome. With the assistance of the member from

Prince Edward-Hastings, that understanding will be brought into focus for each and every one of us as we reflect on perhaps a family member, friend or associate whose life has been affected, either

directly or indirectly, by FAS.

Speaking in support of this bill also allows me an opportunity to highlight the terrific work and research carried on currently at McMaster Children's

Hospital, which is being supported this weekend by the McMaster Children's Hospital Telethon being televised on CHTV. We need to help them help babies and moms.

Are there more children suffering from learning challenges today or is it the fact that we're just more aware? Because of that, I asked for some information

and have received some wonderful assistance from Dr Peter Steer, president of McMaster Children's Hospital.

I asked what fetal alcohol syndrome is. For the information of the House, it's a medical diagnosis that refers to a set of alcohol-related disabilities

associated with the use of alcohol during pregnancy. The minimum criteria for diagnosing a child with FAS are prenatal and/or postnatal growth restrictions; central nervous system involvement, such

as neurological abnormalities, developmental delays, behavioural dysfunction, learning disabilities or other intellectual impairments; and skull and brain malformations.

Exposure to alcohol before birth can lead to long-term developmental disabilities in the form of either FAS or possibly FAE. Although there are no statistics

regarding the extent in Canada currently, it's estimated that one to three children in 1,000 in the industrialized countries will be born today with FAS.

There is no definitive information that can be conveyed to women regarding a safe quantity of alcohol use during pregnancy. Consequently, the prudent choice

for women who are or who may become pregnant is to abstain from alcohol.

As a result of the many reports and medical research papers that are available, they've made some recommendations. They recommend, for example:

(1) Prevention efforts should target women before and during their child-bearing years, as well as those who influence such women, including their partners,

their families and their community. All efforts should be made around family-centred and culturally sensitive issues to address pregnant women as well as their partners and family in the context of

their community.

(2) Information should be provided to all health care professionals regarding the risks of alcohol use during pregnancy to facilitate early recognition of

at-risk drinking and early intervention.

(3) Continuing education programs for health professionals designed to enhance counselling skills that motivate and support lifestyle change for at-risk

drinkers should be widely disseminated and evaluated.

(4) Health professionals working with members and leaders of communities must provide consistent information to women and their partners that the prudent

choice would be not to drink alcohol during pregnancy.

(5) Health professionals play an essential role in identifying women who drink at levels that pose a risk to the fetus and themselves. Screening methods should

be applied to identify women at high risk for heavy alcohol consumption.

(6) Alcohol and drug addiction treatment services should incorporate the needs of women, including transportation and daycare, into their program design.

Pregnant women seeking help should be given high priority at alcohol and drug addiction treatment centres.

(7) Health professionals should inform women who consume small amounts of alcohol occasionally during pregnancy that the risk to the fetus in most situations

is likely minimal. However, they should also explain that the risk is relative to the amount of alcohol consumed, body type, nutritional health and other lifestyle characteristics specific to the

expectant mother.

All of these various papers are available to anyone and I would be happy to give copies of them when and if required.

In

summary, the 2001 study entitled Alcohol-Related Birth Defects: The Past, Present and Future, written by Kenneth R. Warren PhD and Laurie L. Foudin PhD

clearly states, "Women are most likely to say they would lower their alcohol use during pregnancy if they were encouraged," or even so, made more aware of the effects of alcohol on their unborn

fetus. The study also goes on to say, "A communications campaign to inform a target audience should have higher public knowledge of [FAS] as one of its goals. Raising awareness of FAS will also

contribute to a heightened awareness overall, of the harmful effects of alcohol during pregnancy." All these recommendations come from the wonderful research carried on at McMaster Children's

Hospital. Let's help them support and encourage healthy moms and healthy babies.

Mr Joseph N. Tascona (Barrie-Simcoe-Bradford): I'm very pleased to join the debate with respect to the private member's bill brought forth by

the member from Prince Edward-Hastings. To your family and the families of thousands of other FAS children and adults, I'd like offer my support to assist in reducing the risk of children being

born with abnormalities caused by the consumption of alcohol during pregnancy.

Certainly what the member is trying to do by putting forth Sandy's Law is, as a first step, put forth warning signs to prevent another child from being

inflicted with fetal alcohol syndrome. Raising awareness is the purpose.

We've heard from different members in terms of the importance of raising awareness, but signage, as I say, is a first step. Obviously -- and maybe the member

would like to consider this -- liquor servers should be trained with respect to this particular issue. They have an obligation statutorily to serve individuals properly. Also, there should be a

statutory obligation on licensed businesses not to serve individuals who would be at risk, because pregnant women, with the consumption of alcohol that would cause fetal alcohol syndrome, would be

at risk.

I think the control aspect has to be addressed as a part of dealing with amendments to the Liquor Licence Act. Passing this bill certainly doesn't have to

impact at all the changing of the Liquor Licence Act, but regulations could certainly be considered to support and enhance the process with respect to the warning signals and to make sure it

doesn't just apply to women who are pregnant and at risk, but also to people who would be serving them and licensed businesses.

It may be a little bit more difficult in terms of gaining access to alcohol, whether it's at the brewers' retail or the liquor store, because on those

occasions I think what's important is that all you can do is have warning signs. I think the intent would not only be for licensed liquor establishments but also the brewers' retail and liquor

stores, because the signage should be there also with respect to raising awareness.

I offer my support in this matter.

Mrs Linda Jeffrey (Brampton Centre): I'm happy to stand in the Legislature today in support of Bill 43, Sandy's Law.

Before I begin I would like to extend my condolences to the member from Prince Edward-Hastings and his family for the premature loss of their beloved son. I

would also like to mention that I'm awed by the leadership and passion of the member from Prince Edward-Hastings. I'm not sure many of us in this House could stand up so soon after such a tragic

loss and bring leadership to this issue. When something so close hits you like that it's very difficult to be professional and businesslike when your emotions are obviously at a very high level. It

takes a lot of courage and a lot of leadership to do that, and it is my pleasure to talk about this issue.

The member from Prince Edward-Hastings once said, "Alcohol killed my son, but he never had a drink in his life." I think that's a very interesting statement.

It's one that has such resonance.

I think that every time a pregnant woman drinks, it's as though she's giving a drink to her baby. We've talked today about education. This morning, I feel, is

a prevention morning. We've talked about smoking and we've talked about immunization, but prevention is something that doesn't happen once; it happens over and over and over. We need to talk and

educate on a regular basis, because there are young women who five years from now, 10 years from now, need to know about this threat to their child forming inside them, and in the future. It's not

only fetal alcohol syndrome that we're talking about, but fetal alcohol effects, effects that happen to the child long after they're born. It is a very serious responsibility that they carry, and

they need to know that even prior to becoming pregnant.

Some have suggested that it's okay for expectant mothers to have one or two drinks, that it has no effect. But we all know, and it's been shown through

scientific research, that women absorb and metabolize alcohol differently than men.

Fetal alcohol syndrome is the leading cause of mental retardation in our country, and it's totally preventable. Each year in Canada, somewhere between 123 and

740 babies are born with fetal alcohol syndrome, and it's totally preventable. Since 1990, the dietary guidelines for Americans have stated that women who are pregnant, or are planning to become

pregnant, should not drink alcohol. That message is not getting through. A national survey found that 58.8% of women between the ages of 15 and 44 drank while pregnant; 65.8% of pregnant women in

their first trimester reported using alcohol, while 58.6% of women in their second trimester and 53.9% of women in their third trimester reported alcohol use.

When a pregnant woman drinks, or decides to take a drink, they may be committing their child to learning problems/developmental delays; extremely active,

easily distracted, impulsive behaviour; memory problems; some facial feature or other physical differences -- their fingers may be different, their ears may be misshapen. Some 95% have mental

health problems; 68% will have trouble with the law; 55% will be confined to prison, drug and alcohol treatment centres, mental institutions; 50% of males and 70% of females have alcohol or drug

problems; 68% have disrupted school experience; and 52% exhibit inappropriate sexual behaviour.

This is a preventable condition, much like what we learned years ago about neural tube defects. If in the first month after conception you take vitamin B or

folic acid, you can prevent neural tube defects. Neural tube defects are brain or spinal cord/backbone malformations.

They're so preventable, so easy to prevent, but so hard to do. To change attitudes in society about alcohol is so important.

FAS is a nation-wide health concern. It doesn't discriminate on the basis of race, socio-economic status or sex. Bill 43, Sandy's Law, would require the

posting of signs where alcohol would be served or sold, to make pregnant women aware of the risks that drinking presents to their unborn child. The Parsons family, and families of thousands of

other FAS children and adults, need our support in reducing the risk of children being born with abnormalities caused by the consumption of alcohol in pregnancy. I'm pleased to support this

bill.

Mr Toby Barrett (Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant): I certainly support MPP Parsons's private member's bill to display signage to caution pregnant

women not to drink alcohol during pregnancy. I thank the member for Prince Edward-Hastings for bringing forth what I consider a very timely piece of legislation.

As I indicated to the member, and I will admit, during my 20 years at the Addiction Research Foundation, we did not do enough on this to raise awareness, and I

feel we have some catching up to do. I wish to thank my colleagues for giving me some time, because we all take this very seriously.

Michael Piercy is with the Addiction Research Foundation, now known as the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health. He makes a distinction between fetal alcohol

syndrome and what he refers to as fetal alcohol spectrum disorder. There is a broader range of problems beyond strictly fetal alcohol syndrome. But very simply, when a pregnant woman drinks

alcohol, so does her baby. The more she drinks, the more her baby is at risk. We have heard a listing of the various symptoms: brain damage, of course, and learning disabilities.

The stakes are very high. There is no cure. However, as we know, this is completely preventable. I would submit that the signage advocated in this proposed

legislation can be seen as one part of a broader, general education and health promotion approach. Mr Piercy and others in the field recommend a two-pronged approach, including both health

promotion and, secondly, support programs for families exposed to fetal alcohol syndrome. A truly effective approach of managing FAS requires a comprehensive and concerted effort not only in

prevention but also to care for those who are affected. We've heard mentioned several times alcohol server training programs. Again, I think that would go along very well with a signage

program.

MPP Ernie Parsons's signage certainly fits the bill with respect to prevention. I feel we in the House should accept this challenge and take this proposed

legislation even further. Again, because the impact of FAS and FASD cannot be reversed, it is extremely important to focus our efforts on prevention. There are a number of very worthy groups that

have picked up the challenge and are involved. FASworld Canada is one group that comes to mind. It's a group of parents, of course, professionals, teenagers, volunteers and people who are

struggling with birth defects themselves because their mothers drank alcohol during pregnancy. They focus their efforts on one day, September 9. They observe International FAS Awareness Day with a

minute of reflection at 9:09 in the morning. In other words, the ninth minute of the ninth day of the ninth month, representing the nine months of human gestation.

The roots of FAS Awareness Day trace back to 1999. I'll quote from something they've put forward: "What if, on the ninth minute of the ninth hour of the ninth

day of the ninth month of the year 1999, we asked the world to remember that during the nine months of pregnancy, a woman should not drink alcohol?"

Again, a group of concerned people; it grew initially from about 70 volunteers in eight countries. They kicked this off in 1999 in Auckland, New Zealand. Their

minute of reflection involved ringing bells at 9:09 am at Mount Albert Methodist Church. Bells were rung in Adelaide, Australia. In Cape Town, volunteers gathered to hear the war memorial carillon

that rang when Nelson Mandela was released from prison. A similar bell-ringing occurred in Italy, Germany, Sweden and, of course, back across the Atlantic, including a very tiny island, Kitkatla,

BC, near the Queen Charlottes, where the village bell rang at 9:09 am, followed by prayers by the village elders in their native tongue.

In addition to the important signage regulations we're debating today, I would suggest that people across Ontario help further the message and warning of the

dangers described this morning with respect to fetal alcohol syndrome by considering being involved in or launching their own campaign. It may well be a bell campaign. It certainly would be a chat

with restaurant, bar and tavern owners about the advisability of signage. I consider this FAS bell program very simple. A person could do most of the work on their phone. Most communities have a

bell, certainly most older churches have bells, as well as city halls, community and provincial buildings, for example, college or university campuses. Very simply, find out who's in charge of

getting that bell rung and ask that the bell be rung for one minute at 9:09 am on September 9.

I might suggest this could be a project for those of us here present. We represent 103 ridings across Ontario. Getting right down to the practicalities of it,

many of us could very easily access mailing lists for churches in our communities. If our target was September 9, it would give us an opportunity to communicate with churches perhaps this coming

summer, put the bug in their ear and ask if they would be interested in ringing bells at 9:09 on September 9. Again, coupled with signage, plus the server intervention training program, I feel this

can go a long way to ameliorate and prevent some of these risks. I submit this is one more way that we can build on MPP Parsons's work with Sandy's Law.

Ms Monique M. Smith (Nipissing): So many people on the government side want to speak to this bill that I'll be sharing the last few moments

with the member for Huron-Bruce and the Minister of Children and Youth Services.

I just wanted to rise today in support of the member for Prince Edward-Hastings and his bill, Sandy's Law. I think the Minister of Natural Resources said it

best when he said, "This morning we see this House at its best." We were sent here to lead, and I think we lead best when we lead with our hearts. We can all take from Mr Parsons's example this

morning of leading with his heart. I just wanted to stand and say that I support this bill, and I support Mr Parsons in all that he does and all his good works.

Mrs Carol Mitchell (Huron-Bruce): It is my pleasure to rise today to support my fellow legislator Ernie Parsons and to celebrate the work he

does for the children of his family. I can't begin to imagine how big your heart is to bring forward this bill at this time. This is a fitting tribute. It will make a difference. My congratulations

and my support.

I will be sharing my time with the member for Hamilton Mountain.

Hon Marie Bountrogianni (Minister of Children and Youth Services, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration): I echo what everyone in this House

has said this morning. I am so privileged to be a colleague of Ernie Parsons and a friend of Ernie's and his lovely wife, Lin. As a friend, my condolences once again, and as a colleague, my thanks

as Minister of Children and Youth Services, not only for this bill but for the years of service that you and Lin have given as foster parents to the most vulnerable children in our province. I am

proud to support you as a friend, and I am proud to support this bill as a colleague.

The Deputy Speaker: Mr Parsons, you have two minutes to reply.

Mr Parsons: I want to thank everyone in this House, not just for their support of the bill but for supporting our family during a very

difficult time.

Our son faced many challenges that he shouldn't have had to, but he faced them well. We miss him every minute of every day.

Our son loved to help people. We continue to have people come to us with stories of how he cut their lawn or helped them with this or with that, and he never

told us because he truly didn't want thanks for it. He got his enjoyment out of helping others.

This bill is an opportunity for Sandy to help once more. He would be so very proud of you; I know I am, of each and every one of you. Sandy cared about others,

and you care about others. This bill, if it prevents one more child being born with it, is a good bill. But I think it will do more than that because, and I'll reiterate what I said earlier, I

truly believe the people of Ontario are good people who, given the right information, will do the right thing.

Thank you for joining with us to honour the memory of our son, and thank you for doing what you came here to do, which is to help others. You truly are my

heroes. Thank you.

HEALTH INSURANCE

AMENDMENT ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR L'ASSURANCE-SANTÉ

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Bruce Crozier): We'll deal first with ballot item number 15, standing in the name of Mrs Witmer: second reading of Bill

57,

An Act to amend the Health Insurance Act to make various immunizations insured services.

Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Pursuant to standing order 96, this will be referred to the committee of the whole.

Mrs Elizabeth Witmer (Kitchener-Waterloo): I would ask that the bill be referred to the standing committee on justice and social policy.

The Deputy Speaker: Shall it be referred to the standing committee on justice and social policy? It shall be referred to that committee.

SANDY'S LAW

(LIQUOR LICENCE AMENDMENT), 2004 /

LOI SANDY DE 2004

(MODIFICATION DE LA LOI

SUR LES PERMIS D'ALCOOL)

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Bruce Crozier): We shall now deal with ballot item number 16, standing in the name of Mr Parsons: second reading of

Bill 43,

An Act to amend the Liquor Licence Act by requiring signage cautioning pregnant women that the consumption of alcohol while pregnant is the cause of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome.

Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry?

All those in favour, say "aye."

All those opposed, say "nay."

In my opinion, the ayes have it.

Call in the members. This will be a five-minute bell.

The division bells rang from 1158 to 1203.

The Deputy Speaker: Mr Parsons has moved second reading of Bill 43. All those in favour will please stand.

Ayes

Arnott, Ted

Barrett, Toby

Bartolucci, Rick

Berardinetti, Lorenzo

Bountrogianni, Marie

Broten, Laurel C.

Brown, Michael A.

Bryant, Michael

Caplan, David

Churley, Marilyn

Colle, Mike

Cordiano, Joseph

Craitor, Kim

Delaney, Bob

Dhillon, Vic

Dombrowsky, Leona

Duguid, Brad

Duncan, Dwight

Dunlop, Garfield

Flynn, Kevin Daniel

Hoy, Pat

Hudak, Tim

Jackson, Cameron

Jeffrey, Linda

Kormos, Peter

Kwinter, Monte

Leal, Jeff

Levac, Dave

Marsales, Judy

Martel, Shelley

McGuinty, Dalton

McMeekin, Ted

McNeely, Phil

Milloy, John

Mitchell, Carol

Mossop, Jennifer F.

Orazietti, David

Ouellette, Jerry J.

Parsons, Ernie

Patten, Richard

Prue, Michael

Pupatello, Sandra

Qaadri, Shafiq

Ramsay, David

Sandals, Liz

Scott, Laurie

Smith, Monique

Smitherman, George

Takhar, Harinder S.

Tascona, Joseph N.

Watson, Jim

Witmer, Elizabeth

Zimmer, David

The Deputy Speaker: All those opposed?

Clerk of the House (Mr Claude L. DesRosiers): The ayes are 53; the nays are 0.

The Deputy Speaker: I declare the motion carried.

Mr Ernie Parsons (Prince Edward-Hastings): Mr Speaker, I would ask that this bill be referred to the standing committee on regulations and

private bills.

The Deputy Speaker: Shall it be referred to the regulations and private bills committee? Agreed.

All matters relating to private members' public business having been completed, I do now leave the chair. The House will resume at 1:30 of the clock.

The House recessed from 1206 to 1330.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

CAYUGA DRAGWAY

Mr Toby Barrett (Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant): Over the years it has had several names, but Canada's oldest drag strip is commonly referred to as

Cayuga Dragway. From May 14 to 16, former fans, staff and racers will be in Haldimand county to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the drag strip. The reunion will be a special celebration of drag

racing history at Kohler and will include memorabilia, classic dragsters, racers and former NHLer Marty McSorley.

The dragway has a unique history. In 1948, L. Bruce Mehlenbacher purchased the 375-acre parcel of land. It was once a Royal Canadian Air Force landing strip.

By 1954, Mr Mehlenbacher had developed the site into one of North America's pioneer drag racing strips. By the 1960s, the strip received both NASCAR and NHRA sanctioning.

I've been going to the drags over the years. I bought a 1941 Dodge coupe in 1963. I've still got it. I admit my coupe is embarrassingly classified as an F

gasser. My EA says her Mustang is an FN gas guzzler.

Some of North America's best drag racers have lit up the track in Haldimand county. I invite Ontario to come to this event. In closing, I'd like to

congratulate the reunion committee for giving us a chance to talk shop.

BRANT CITIZENS OF THE YEAR

Mr Dave Levac (Brant): I'm pleased to rise today to share with the House the nominations for citizen of the year in my riding of Brant. This

is the ninth year for this event, in which the Brantford Expositor celebrates citizens who make a difference in our community. Every day we hear about people behaving badly, but for this moment,

let us focus and refocus our attention on those who inspire and who make a difference, people who make our lives just a little bit better than they were and, indeed, in some cases even save

lives.

This year's nominee finalists are an inspirational group who have contributed in a wide variety of ways. Here's a brief look at these wonderful people: Frank

Balazs, a retired police officer, has long taken an interest in helping young people find their way in life. Lesley Anthony and Jean Bowen: These health care workers blew the whistle on elder abuse

in two retirement homes and have formed a group, Voices Against Elder Abuse. Ron Birkett, inducted into the sports hall of fame, has been involved in the Brantford Classic run, minor sports, United

Way, Junior Achievement, Brant Waterways and many, many more. Clarence "CJ" Dick, a full-time volunteer fundraiser for many organizations, has raised hundreds of thousands of dollars for the Heart

and Stroke Foundation, SPCA, Sunshine Dream for Kids, Multiple Sclerosis Society, and the list is endless. Nathalie Michalchuk: instrumental in bringing to the community the Lifeline emergency

response system for seniors. She volunteered with the elder abuse board, Sanderson Centre and St Joseph's Hospital Foundation.

It's obvious that we have fantastic people in my riding who indeed deserve this kind of credit. The persons nominated for citizen of the year are inspirational

to all of us. I want to thank each and every one of those members, who are representative of all of the wonderful volunteers we have in this riding and in this province.

WATER QUALITY

Mr Ernie Hardeman (Oxford): I've been contacted by the division commissioner of the Girl Guides of Canada in my riding. She, like many others

in rural Ontario, has concerns about water regulation 170, and has explained how it will impact the Girl Guide camp they use.

Because of the regulation, the camp has to use a private lab for testing, which was previously done by the board of health for free. They must also ask

volunteers to complete a course so they will have qualified water testers. In total, the Oxford division will have to pay $6,000 over and above the cost of the water treatment system and the

engineer's report to use their camp every year. That's a lot of cookies for those little girls to sell.

The commissioner says, "Where we are heading may be non-existence, because we may not be able to afford to cover the financial burden put on us." This

regulation has not only become a church tax; I'm afraid it has become a cookie tax.

I urge the government to put this regulation on hold until they are ready to supply funding through recommendation 84 of the O'Connor report.

When the Girl Guides were taught to "be prepared," I'm sure they weren't expecting this.

SYD VANDERPOOL

Mr John Milloy (Kitchener Centre): I'm proud to rise in the House today to congratulate an outstanding resident of Kitchener Centre, the

number one ranked super-middleweight boxer in the world, Syd "The Jewel" Vanderpool.

On April 17, Syd won a 12-round decision over Panama's Tito Mendoza in an International Boxing Federation bout. His victory over Mendoza moves him to the

number one spot for the vacant IBF super-middleweight title.

Last Saturday afternoon, members of my community gathered to welcome this athlete home and to congratulate him on his victory. I had the pleasure of attending

the event and bringing congratulations from the province.

Beyond his contributions to Canadian sport and to boxing worldwide, Syd has distinguished himself as a community leader. When he is not in the ring, he gives

generously of his time to make a positive difference in the lives of young people in our area.

In the year 2000, Syd used his unique talents to create something for youth in our community called PRYDE. PRYDE stands for Positive Reinforcement Youth

Development Enterprise. It emphasizes achievement through learning strategies based on individual and group activities. A spin-off of PRYDE is Syd's Kids for Camp program, which raises money to

send kids from single-parent families to summer camp. This is just one example of Syd's concern for our community and his determination to build championship citizens.

As you can see, we are dealing with an incredible athlete and an extraordinary human being. I know that I speak for all the residents of Kitchener Centre and,

indeed, all Ontarians when we express our pride in Syd Vanderpool's success and wish him all the best in his next bout.

WATER QUALITY

Ms Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): Regulation 170 is causing more difficulties for constituents in Nickel Belt. In 1992, 14 homeowners in Skead

were incorporated as a co-op and purchased company homes from the Poupore Lumber Co. The co-op, Skead Heritage Homes Inc, has a private water system which uses surface water to service the homes.

The homeowners are subject to regulation 170 and must comply with its requirements by July 1.

They have two options. First, they can stay with the well system and add a filtration process, which will be very expensive, or they can dig a deep well and

hope to find enough water to meet the volumes required by the MOE. Their engineer has been given the go-ahead to drill on-site now, to see what volumes of water are actually available.

Frank Kehoe, one of the homeowners, told me that, since 1992, co-op members have already spent thousands and thousands of dollars to upgrade the private well

system. They are very concerned about the additional financial costs they'll incur as they try to comply with regulation 170. This is a very legitimate concern.

The Minister of the Environment has said the regulation is flawed and she has asked staff for recommendations for change. The government has two choices: amend

the requirements through a new regulation or agree the government will fully fund the cost to upgrade water and treatment systems if the requirements stay the same. But the minister must respond

now because many individuals and municipal councils must comply with regulation 170 by July 1, and they're making tough decisions about what to do.

This is a serious issue in rural and northern Ontario. Trailer park tenants risk losing their homes, municipalities risk losing their community centres, faith

communities risk losing their churches and homeowners like the ones at the Skead co-op face serious financial challenges as they struggle to comply. They need to know now what the intentions of the

government are. I call on the minister to make a positive decision as soon as possible and end this crisis in rural and northern Ontario.

OSGOODE HALL LAW STUDENTS

Ms Monique M. Smith (Nipissing): It gives me great pleasure to announce that students from York University's Osgoode Hall Law School, one of

the finest law schools in our province, have won a major international legal competition in Vienna, Austria. It is the first such win by a Canadian team in the 11-year history of the William C. Vis

International Arbitration Moot. The competition featured 136 entries from 42 countries, and the team from Osgoode Hall was judged the best -- the best in the world.

Seated in the gallery today are the members of the Osgoode Hall team: Christopher Hickey, Fiona Hickman, Jonathan Hood, Gregory Smith, Stephen Vander Stoep and

Tala Zarbafi, along with the team's adviser, Janet Walker, the associate dean.

Also with the team today are some distinguished visitors: Dean Patrick Monahan of Osgoode Hall; Professor Janine Benedet, who directs Osgoode's mooting

program; and in our public galleries, the family members and supporters of this great team.

The triumph of this team of young people is a tribute to the excellent legal education of Osgoode Hall, and indeed all the law faculties across the

province.

I would ask you, Mr Speaker, and the members of this House to please join me in congratulating Osgoode Hall Law School and this remarkable team on their

tremendous achievement.

SOUTH ASIAN COMMUNITY

Mr Jim Flaherty (Whitby-Ajax): I'm pleased to announce to this House that for the third year in a row, people of South Asian origin and their

friends throughout Ontario are celebrating May as South Asian Heritage Month. Tomorrow marks the launch of the month-long celebrations.

While most people of South Asian descent came to our country directly from Asia, many came to Canada from places such as Uganda, Kenya, Mauritius, Fiji,

Trinidad and Tobago, and Guyana.

Over three million people of South Asian descent live in the Americas, and over half a million choose to live, work and raise their families here in

Ontario.

Today, South Asians make up approximately 7% of Ontario's population and are proud to draw upon their heritage and traditions, contributing to many aspects of

culture, commerce and public service across our province.

South Asian Heritage Month is an opportunity to showcase the accomplishments and successes of the South Asian community. Ontario's South Asian community

provides a living social, political and economic link between our province and many countries around the world. It is my hope that we will continue to use this opportunity to enhance our

understanding and appreciation of their rich culture, heritage and tradition.

I ask all members of this House to join me in paying tribute to the contributions South Asians have made and continue to make to the great province we all call

home: Ontario, Canada.

COMMUNITY LIVING OAKVILLE

Mr Kevin Daniel Flynn (Oakville): I rise today to draw attention to and congratulate community living organizations in all of Ontario, but

most specifically community living in my great riding of Oakville.

Living in our community is something that we take for granted, yet this is not something that happens naturally for many people who have an intellectual

disability. In fact, in the past, many families found their loved ones placed in institutions.

In Oakville, in the early 1950s, two families started educating their son and daughter at home, and that initiative grew into what we know today as community

living. Today, community living is 49 years old.

In the past few years, as a result of a friendship I've developed with a gentleman named Stephen Muir, I've learned a lot more about this wonderful

organization. They've taught me that inclusiveness is not about words but about actions. Part of that inclusiveness is learning how provincial government works.

Today, in our public gallery, please join me in welcoming six members of Community Living Oakville, who are here today for a tour of Queen's Park and to see

how their provincial government works.

COMMUNITY USE OF SCHOOLS

Mr Frank Klees (Oak Ridges): During my time as Minister of Tourism and Recreation, I encouraged the development of a policy that would restore

community access to our schools for sports and recreation after hours and on weekends. I had hoped that it would be in Mr Bradley's announcement yesterday. Unfortunately, it wasn't.

For decades, Ontario taxpayers have paid for the construction of schools that they rightfully would have expected would be available for their children after

hours and on weekends, yet our young people are often relegated to the streets and malls to spend their spare time. Money isn't the problem. After all, it should cost taxpayers pennies to let a

responsible volunteer coach run a basketball game for a night a week. The buildings and fields are already there and already maintained.

I hope this House will join me in a nonpartisan effort to solve this problem. We just have to say no to red tape. We have to be fair with responsible

volunteers, instead of forcing them to pay for custodial supervision that's neither wanted nor necessary. We have to make our school boards see the folly of sky-high fees. Those fees are putting

teams and community clubs out of business, ensuring that the school boards won't raise a dime from those organizations that their policies are designed to raise money from.

Let's allow the public to use these public spaces for a great public purpose.

VISITOR

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): We have with us today in the Speaker's gallery the consul general of Pakistan, Mr Ghalib Iqbal. Welcome.

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE

ON GENERAL GOVERNMENT

Mr Vic Dhillon (Brampton West-Mississauga): I beg leave to present a report from the standing committee on general government and move its

adoption.

Clerk at the Table (Ms Lisa Freedman): Your committee begs to report the following bill as amended:

Bill 31,

An Act to enact and amend various Acts with respect to the protection of health information / Projet de loi 31, Loi édictant et modifiant

diverses lois en ce qui a trait à la protection des renseignements sur la santé.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Shall the report be received and adopted? Agreed.

The bill is ordered for third reading.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

MINISTRY OF CONSUMER AND

BUSINESS SERVICES STATUTE LAW

AMENDMENT ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

EN CE QUI CONCERNE LE MINISTÈRE DES SERVICES AUX CONSOMMATEURS ET AUX ENTREPRISES

Mr Watson moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 70,

An Act to amend various Acts administered by or affecting the Ministry of Consumer and Business Services / Projet de loi 70, Loi modifiant

diverses lois appliquées par ou touchant le ministère des Services aux consommateurs et aux entreprises.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Hon Jim Watson (Minister of Consumer and Business Services): I will make my comments during ministerial statements.

OLYMPIC DAY ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004

SUR LA JOURNÉE OLYMPIQUE

Mr Fonseca moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 71,

An Act to proclaim Olympic Day / Projet de loi 71, Loi proclamant la Journée olympique.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Mr Peter Fonseca (Mississauga East): Today we recognize Olympism and its values as an agent of real positive social and cultural change,

values of excellence, fun, fairness, human development, leadership, peace, respect. By adhering to these values, we will achieve our greatest passion: greatness. Through our actions and by working

together, we make others aware and understanding of what we represent and of ourselves. This is greatness.

SENATORIAL SELECTION ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004

SUR LE CHOIX DES SÉNATEURS

Mr Runciman moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 72,

An Act to provide for the election in Ontario of nominees for appointment to the Senate of Canada / Projet de loi 72, Loi prévoyant

l'élection en Ontario de candidats à des nominations au Sénat du Canada.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Mr Robert W. Runciman (Leeds-Grenville): This bill is modelled on a bill passed by the Alberta Legislature in 1988. Given the priority both

Prime Minister Martin and Premier McGuinty have placed on the need for democratic reform, this seems the ideal time to put forward an initiative that could ultimately give regions of this country

stronger representation in Ottawa without the requirement for constitutional amendments. Adoption of this initiative by the country's most populated province could open the floodgates to real

Senate reform and send all the right messages to parts of the country that now feel alienated from the central government.

Mr Peter Fonseca (Mississauga East): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: In honour of the introduction of the Olympic Day Act, 2004, I would ask

for unanimous consent that the members can wear the official Canadian Olympic Committee pin.

The Speaker: I hear a request for unanimous consent to wear the pin. Agreed? Agreed.

Mr Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I appreciate the member's search for unanimous consent and his having

provided us with pins. Perhaps he could undertake to make sure the pages get one too.

MOTIONS

PRIVATE MEMBERS' PUBLIC BUSINESS

Hon Dwight Duncan (Minister of Energy, Government House Leader): I believe I have unanimous consent to put forward a motion without notice

regarding private members' public business.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Do we have unanimous consent for the House leader to put forward private members' public business?

Agreed.

Hon Mr Duncan: I move that, notwithstanding standing order 96(g), notice for ballot item 20 be waived.

The Speaker: Is it agreed? Agreed.

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

CONSUMER PROTECTION /

PROTECTION DU CONSOMMATEUR

Hon Jim Watson (Minister of Consumer and Business Services): It's my pleasure to speak to this proposed legislation. This bill is an example

of good government at work -- a step toward the McGuinty government's vision of a better Ontario. It's a special pleasure for me to speak about this bill, as this is the first piece of proposed

legislation I have been honoured to introduce since being elected in October.

This bill contains more than 80 proposals for changes to 24 of the 66 statutes administered by the Ministry of Consumer and Business Services. I am pleased to

bring forward proposals for change to expedite into law improved consumer protection legislation and enhanced public safety in the electrical sector. The legislative amendments in this bill and the

significant amounts of complex and technical detail reflected in them, can only have been developed with the support and hard work of the many ministry stakeholders and the public servants at the

consumer and business services ministry.

Je veux profiter de cette occasion pour exprimer mon appréciation à un certain nombre de personnes clés pour leurs efforts bien spéciaux

relativement à l'élaboration de ce projet de loi: Robert Stelzer, the president and CEO of the Electrical Safety Authority; PeterMarcucci, Lucy Impera and Dane MacCarthy for their

guidance and support; Eryl Roberts, Dave Mason and Norm Purdy from the electrical contractors association -- Mr Purdy, who is with us today, tells me he has been working on this for 40 years; his

time and day have come -- Glenn Carr, an Ottawa electrical contractor and chair of the Electrical Contractors Registration Agency; Garry Enright and Richard Cullis from the Ontario Electrical

League; and John Pender, executive secretary and treasurer of the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers.

I'd also like to recognize the work of Michael Pepper, registrar and CEO of the Travel Industry Council of Ontario, for his contribution to the proposed travel

amendment and his outstanding support of the regulation development process of the new Travel Industry Act, as well as Tracey McKiernan; the support of Carl Compton, executive director and

registrar of the Ontario Motor Vehicle Industry Council, and Tom Wright, president and CEO of the Real Estate Council of Ontario, and Ken Hajas, the chair of RECO, who have been of great service to

our ministry. I'd also like to thank long-time consumer advocate Joan Huzar and all of the members of the Consumers Council of Canada, especially executive director Michael Lio and Whipple

Steinkrauss, for their input on consumer protection measures. A number of these individuals are with me in the gallery, and I thank them very much for being here.

The proposals in this bill would strengthen confidence in the marketplace and promote growth and prosperity. I'm proud of the work that this government has

done to protect consumers. Since taking office just six months ago, we've spent much of our time helping to educate millions of Ontario consumers about their rights and responsibilities in the

marketplace.

Avec l'aide de nombreux partenaires, nous avons distribué cette année des calendriers anti-fraude à 140 000 consommateurs.

Just this week, the Canadian Public Relations Society awarded the top award in the public sector category to the Ministry of Consumer and Business Services for

the calendar. My congratulations to Donna Holmes and Gerald Crowell and their team at MCBS.

We've been involved in a number of other major outreach initiatives. We launched our identity theft campaign, a large project that involves financial

institutions and law enforcement agencies. The results have been exemplary.

Une nouvelle publication traitant du vol d'identité a été remise à plus de 100 000 consommateurs. Consumers who are victims of

identity theft can now use a new on-line statement to send the information that creditors need to jump-start action on their cases.

But our work does not stop there.

The government's commitment to positive change is reflected in pushing forward with work on the regulations to the new consumer protection legislation so that

the new law can be brought into force as early as possible without sacrificing attention to detail. The government wants to proclaim Ontario's new Consumer Protection Act as soon as the regulations

can be completed and approved. With the regulations in hand, this broad-reaching legislation would make Ontario a national leader in consumer protection.

The new Consumer Protection Act received unanimous support in this assembly when it came forward as part of an umbrella package of legislation. We should

recognize the work of the former government and all of the honourable members during the 37th Parliament. I want to particularly point out, for his leadership and work with this, the honourable

member for Erie-Lincoln for a job well done. I also want to thank my colleague the honourable member for Essex, who was our party's critic and was very supportive of the legislation.

We do not want Ontario consumers to wait for a stronger marketplace. The regulations under development for this legislation are intended to be highly

responsive to the needs and wants of consumers and businesses in the 21st century. If this new legislation comes into force, it will provide many advantages for consumers. The new consumer

protection legislation would increase protections for services sold on-line through the Internet, or traditional services such as lawn care. It would also cover leases, which is good news for those

who lease cars or computers.

Car owners would also have another advantage, particularly when they deal with repair shops. Let me offer a tangible example of a consumer whom the ministry

would have been able to help had the new consumer protection legislation been in force. Last year, a Scarborough-area consumer took his car to a repair shop for a complete engine rebuild. He wanted

only new parts to be used, and that was confirmed in writing on the estimate. Eight months later he took the vehicle to another repair shop when his car started having engine trouble. He found out

that used parts had been installed and that they were in poor condition. The ministry was unable to charge the repair shop under the Motor Vehicle Repair Act because the six-month limitation period

had run out. Even if the repairer had been successfully charged, the consumer would have received no restitution, because under the existing legislation it could not have been ordered in court. If

the new Consumer Protection Act were in force, consumer problems would be resolved for up to two years from the date of the occurrence and courts could order restitution.

Les intervenants du ministère qui sont spécialistes de la gestion du secteur de