Manitoba Hansard — 11 April 2018 (Sitting 31, 41st Legislature, 3rd Session)

41-3-31

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session – Forty-First Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Myrna Driedger Speaker Vol. LXXI No. 31 - 1:30 p.m., Wednesday, April 11, 2018 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-First Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLUM, James Fort Garry-Riverview NDP ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley NDP BINDLE, Kelly Thompson PC CLARKE, Eileen, Hon. Agassiz PC COX, Cathy, Hon. River East PC CULLEN, Cliff, Hon. Spruce Woods PC CURRY, Nic Kildonan PC DRIEDGER, Myrna, Hon. Charleswood PC EICHLER, Ralph, Hon. Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FIELDING, Scott, Hon. Kirkfield Park PC FLETCHER, Steven, Hon. Assiniboia Ind. FONTAINE, Nahanni St. Johns NDP FRIESEN, Cameron, Hon. Morden-Winkler PC GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib.

GOERTZEN, Kelvin, Hon. Steinbach PC GRAYDON, Clifford Emerson PC GUILLEMARD, Sarah Fort Richmond PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC ISLEIFSON, Len Brandon East PC JOHNSON, Derek Interlake PC JOHNSTON, Scott St. James PC KINEW, Wab Fort Rouge NDP KLASSEN, Judy Kewatinook Lib. LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAGIMODIERE, Alan Selkirk PC LAMOUREUX, Cindy Burrows Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas NDP LINDSEY, Tom Flin Flon NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Flor Logan NDP MARCELINO, Ted Tyndall Park NDP MARTIN, Shannon Morris PC MAYER, Colleen St.

Vital PC MICHALESKI, Brad Dauphin PC MICKLEFIELD, Andrew Rossmere PC MORLEY-LECOMTE, Janice Seine River PC NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC PALLISTER, Brian, Hon. Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine, Hon. Midland PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Arthur-Virden PC REYES, Jon St. Norbert PC SARAN, Mohinder The Maples Ind. SCHULER, Ron, Hon. St. Paul PC SMITH, Andrew Southdale PC SMITH, Bernadette Point Douglas NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Verendrye PC SQUIRES, Rochelle, Hon. Riel PC STEFANSON, Heather, Hon. Tuxedo PC SWAN, Andrew Minto NDP TEITSMA, James Radisson PC WHARTON, Jeff, Hon. Gimli PC WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WISHART, Ian, Hon.

Portage la Prairie PC WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC YAKIMOSKI, Blair Transcona PC Vacant St. Boniface

1209 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, April 11, 2018 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Madam Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee to frame such laws as may tend to the welfare and prosperity of our province. Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may seek it with wisdom and know it with certainty and accomplish it perfectly for the glory and honour of Thy name and for the welfare of all our people. Amen. Please be seated. Good afternoon, everybody.

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 218–The Prompt Payments in the Construction Industry Act Mr. Reg Helwer (Brandon West): I move, seconded by the MLA for Lac du Bonnet, that Bill 218, The Prompt Payments in the Construction Industry Act;

Loi sur le paiement sans délai dans l'industrie de la construction, now be read f or a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Helwer: This bill deals with payments to contractors and subcontractors in the construction industry. Owners must make periodic payments under a construction contract to their contractors at specified times as the w ork progresses or when milestones are reached. They must also make final payments promptly upon work completion. Similar obligations apply to contractors' payments to their subcontractors and subcontractors' payments to other subcontractors.

If payment obligations are not met, a contractor or a subcontractor may, with notice, suspend work or terminate the contract. An adjudicator may be appointed to resolve payment disputes. Thank you, Madam Speaker, and we are joined in the gallery today by many represent atives of organizations and unions and–in support of this bill. Thank you. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Any further introduction of bills? No. Committee reports? Tabling of reports?

MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS Madam Speaker: The honourable Minister for Sustainable Development, and I would indicate that the required 90 minutes notice prior to routine proceedings was provided in accordance with our rule 26(2). Would the honourable minister please proce ed with her statement. International Day of Pink Hon. Rochelle Squires (Minister responsible for the Status of Women ): April 11th marks the International Day of Pink.

It is a day where communities across the country unite in celebrating diversity and raising awareness to stop homophobia, transphobia, transmisogyny, body shaming and all forms of bullying. Today's Day of Pi nk was started in Nova Scotia in 2007 at the Central Kings Rural High School. Two high school students, David Shepherd and Travis Price, saw another student being bullied and that student happened to be wearing a pink shirt. The two students intervened and knew that they wanted to do more to prevent homophobic and transphobic bullying.

As a result of the actions of those two youth, a national movement was born whereby each year, on the second Wednesday of April, millions of people wear pink to take a stan d. The Day of Pink is a symbol; it is a spark which empowers and inspires youth and adults across Canada to create amazing social change. Bullying doesn't just happen to children, but also to adults. It happens in workplaces and in everyday life. Females and those who are perceived to be feminine are often overrepresented among the victims. Many have now found the strength to come forward and share their experiences with others.

I am proud to be a member of a government who has brought the experience of harassment to the forefront and are actively working to make the province of Manitoba a better and safer place to work and to live.

1210 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 11, 2018 I want to encourage all of my colleagues today to take a stand against bullying, much like David and Travis did 11 years ago. Together, we can work together to ensure that all people feel accepted and celebrated. Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns ): Pink fills many schools and workplaces today recognizing International Day of Pink, a day uniting us all to stand up against homophobia, transphobia, misogyny and all forms of bullying. Demonstrating respect and standing up against bullying must not only occur for just one day.

Eleven years ago, a male student at a Nova Scotia high school was ha rassed for wearing a pink polo shirt. When two other male students heard about the incident, they courageously encouraged all students to wear pink shirts. The next day, the sea of pink began, Madam Speaker, a movement that demonstrates our ability as humans to unite, to stand together and work together to stop bullying, to end homophobia, transphobia and all other types of harassments our children and ourselves, especially as women, face daily. Our youth are our future leaders.

It is important that they see us as adults setting the right example by being respectful to one another, to listening to one another and standing up to bullying. Hundreds of schools and workplaces across the province stand in solidarity today. This includes all of us here at the Legislature. Certainly, it starts with us. We must model the type of behaviour that we want. I lift up all of the youth, Madam Speaker, who founded this movement and all of the youth who have taken up the mantle in ending bullying across Canada. Miigwech. Ms.

Cindy Lamoureux (Burrows): Madam Speaker, I ask for leave to speak in response to the minister's statement. Madam Speaker: Does the member have leave to respond to the ministerial statement? [Agreed] Ms. Lamoureux: It's nice to rise and have the opportunity to speak to International Day of Pink. International Day of Pink falls on the second Wednesday of every April. This year, it happens to be today, April 11th. This day was started in Nova Scotia by two high school students.

These students took the initiative to stand up against bullying by educating people of the various forms of discrimination and by purchasing pink shirts. That ultimately led everyone in the school to wear pink in solidarity. Talk about inspiring, Madam Speaker. The message is evident. There is power in numbers, and together, we can do anything. International Day of Pink symbolizes empowerment and inspiration across Canada, so add some pink to your attire today and fight for diversity, for our nation and for future generations. Thank you, Madam Speaker. * (13:40) MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Pembina Active Living Plus Mr.

Jon Reyes (St. Norbert): At the south end of Winnipeg, there is a group of individuals who, as they get older, only get better and busier, staying active and contributing to our community. In the spring of 2009, Lynn Arnott and Lois Abraham recognized a need for programs, activities and events where mature adults could connect, socialize, share their talents and develop new ones. By August , a group of twelve s eniors gathered for the first meeting of what would be –eventually become known as the Pembina Active Living, or PAL (55+).

Since th e first meeting, this nine -year-old organization has grown into a family supporting close to 500 members with a variety of activities including book clubs, painting classes, computer workshops, afternoon movies, craft groups, cycling excursions, bowling, golf and fitness training and, of course, their famous food- and-wine pairing events. They host an annual Zing into Spring, a membership-drive picnic and a Christmas gathering. Look at their online calendar to see just how active they are. But PAL (55+) is n't serving its membership only.

It has given back to the community through programs which include its gardening club, which took on an annual beautification of Kings Park, informational presentations on health, personal security and many other topics, plus intergenerational sing-songs with the neighbourhood

chapter of the boys and girls of Winnipeg.

April 11, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1211 Recently, PAL (55+) kicked off their fundraising campaign so they can provide even more for its members and our community, including those who are not quite members yet. For the record, I couldn't wait until I was 55 to join, so I already joined. I already purchased a PAL (55+) membership myself and I am so proud to be part of such a wonderful organization and to have connected with so many great people. Jerry Jerrett, board member; Alanna Jones, executive director; Bob Newman, past president; Bob Roehle, president.

Madam Speaker, please join me in welcoming them and thanking them for all they do for our community in the south end of Winnipeg. Thank you. Frontier College Skills Competition Honourees Mr. Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): Today I rise to congratulate a group of young people from Frontier Collegiate in Cranberry Portage, Manitoba, for their amazing achievements in t he Manitoba skills competition. One of the se students is Northwind Colomb of Pukatawagan, who completed the carpentry program at Frontier with honours.

He is also a two -time gold medalist for carpentry in the northern Manitoba skills competition, he's known for his strong work ethic and commitment to excellence on every project, which will serve him well in the workforce. Another student is Alexis Ballantyne from Moose Lake who has been studying in the power mechanics program and plans to pursue a career in the automotive industry after graduation. Alexis often spends her time in the classroom honing her skills and is a very enthusiastic about school, as she is part of the student leadership program and a positive role model for the students in her community.

Another spe cial guest is William Pronteau of Cormorant, who has been in the power mechanic s program and will graduate grade 12 this year along with receiving a n automotive service technician certificate. He plans to join the military and become an engineer. Finally, our last special guest is Jonah Wishart, also of Cormorant, who is also in the power mechanics and is known to be bus y working repairing and maintaining various types of equip - ment for family and friends.

I want to congratulate the students on their remarkable achievements, and I look forward to seeing where life takes them in the future with their incredible skills. They are the future leaders of our communities, and as they use these skills to help others, we are all very proud of their accomplishments. It is heartwarming to see the NDP investments in Frontier paying off for the students and their families in the North. Thank you for your commitment, and congratulations on achieving your goals for y our future. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Flin Flon. Mr.

Lindsey: Madam Speaker, I ask leave to add the students' names, as well as their instructors and family members who are with them, into Hansard. Madam Speaker: Is there leave to include those names in Hansard? [Agreed] Alexis Ballantyne , Northwind Colomb, Grant Kreuger, William Pronteau, Jonah Wishart, Sheldon Yaremchuk 2018 Paralympic Curling Champions Mr. Shannon Martin (Morris): I am honoured to take this opportunity to recognize and congratulate two very talented athletes from my constituency: Mr. Dennis Thiessen, from Sanford, and Mr. Jamie Anseeuw, from Oak Bluff.

Not only were Dennis and Jamie, along with Mark Ideson, Ina Forrest and Marie Wright, selected to represent Canada in wheelchair curling at the 2018 Winter Paralympic Games, but they brought home the bronze medal. Madam Speaker, from March 8th to 18th, Dennis and Jamie joined their Can adian teammates in PyeongChang, South Korea, to compete in wheelchair curling, an event that has quickly grown in popularity since making its debut in 2006. Team Canada won nine out of 11 round robin games, then lost an intense semifinal 4-3 to the Republic of China before beating Korea to capture the bronze.

Their team had a reputation for high intensity with a complete focus on performance excellence, their team dynamics second to none. Dennis, who has participated as a wheelchair curler since 2005, can add this bronze medal to an impressive collection of wins , including several national titles and a gold medal at the 2013 world championships and the 2014 Paralympics in Russia. Dennis recruited Jamie to play for Team Manitoba in 2014, and the two went on to become

1212 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 11, 2018 two-time national ch ampions in 2014 and ' 17. The 2018 Paralympics was Jamie's first international debut wearing the maple leaf. Outside of wheelchair curling, both these men have been remarkable examples of redefining the boundaries of possibility. Dennis coaches and mentors the next generation of wheelchair curlers at the Assiniboine curling club, and Jamie mentors snowmobile racers, some of whom have stood on world champion podiums. Jamie's slogan is dream, believe, achieve.

Well, Jamie and Dennis, I bel ieve an entire nat ion would say, mission accomplished. On behalf of the province of Manitoba, thank you and congratulations. Government Notices Modernization Act Mr. James Allum (Fort Garry -Riverview): Madam Speaker, the Premier (Mr. Pallister) and his government have i ntroduced a bill that will hav e a serious impact on Manitoba newspapers and all Manitobans who rely on them to access important information. Bill 8 removes the requirement for government to publish official notices in local newspapers.

Instead, the govern ment will now post information on an obscure government website. These government notices deliver crucial information to thousands of Manitobans every day on changes in legislation or disruptions in services that may affect the health, safety and well -being of our fellow citizens. Oftentimes these government notices advertise a public hearing to discuss a change in front -line services. It is important all Manitobans are aware of these public hearings, especially when they dea l with government cuts to front -line health services like emergency care.

Bill 8 would eliminate this commitment to openness and transparency. Ensuring the information Manitobans need is delivered to them openly and regularly is the foundation of transparency. Bill 8 destroys this commitment, all because of the report of a high-priced consultant. By advertising in local newspapers, the government is ensuring that this information is delivered to Manitobans' doorstep. Any change s to acts like The Environment Act, The Public Health Act, The Public Schools Act, The Water Protection Act or even the Human Rights Code, deserves more than simply a post on a website.

Families cannot be left in the dark about important changes that affect their health and safety. What is also of concern is the effect Bill 8 will have on the sustainability and future of local and cultural community newspapers. Smaller papers that represent our rural communities or our vibrant ethnic and linguistic communit ies, like La Liberté , are the backbone of our province. This cut was made without consultation and will impact them in ways the P rovince has clearly not considered. I have heard from Manitobans who rely on community newspaper s to stay current on issues and changes in services .

Families and businesses must be protected and informed. Small local papers must be supported so that our communities can grow and flourish. Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. An Honourable Member: Leave. Some Honourable Members: No. Madam Speaker: Leave has been denied. Lake Manitoba Outlet Channel Mr. Derek Johnson (Interlake): Madam Speaker, I rise in the House today to share the benefits of Lake Manitoba outlet channel and to refresh our memory of the devastating flood of 2011. In the last 100 years, Manitoba has experienced our share of major floods.

However, the spring of 2011 was unique for Lake Manitoba. Record-high water flows were recorded on all streams and rivers in the Assiniboine River and Lake Manitoba watersheds. As the water diverted through the Portage Diversion took its toll, farmers were the first to be impacted. Many of these farms had been operated by the same family for generations. When the flood struck, many farms were destroyed, along with their dreams of continuing on the family tradition. Also, cottagers and homeowners along the lakes and rivers were devastated, forcing owners to evacuate fo r extended periods of time .

Some have yet to return home. * (13:50) The flood of 2011 highlighted several potential weak links in the existing flood control systems. The Assiniboine River and Lake Manitoba flood basins –

April 11, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1213 Manitoba basins flood mitigation s tudy of 2016 recommended that the Lake Manitoba outlet channel be constructed. This new outlet channel will work in tandem with the existing Fairford water control structure to help regulate water levels and mitigate flooding on Lake Manitoba. When complet e, the channel will serve to reduce large- scale flooding of Manitobans similar to what we faced in 2011 and again in 2014. This will offer peace of mind to farmers, homeowners and cottages in these affected areas.

By building the Lake Manitoba outlet channel, we can definitely save millions and probably billions in future disaster relief coming out of taxpayers' pockets. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Introduction of Guests Madam Speaker: Prior to oral questions, we have some guests in the gallery that I woul d like to introduce to you. We have seated in the public gallery from Garden City Collegiate 42 grade 9 students under the direction of Lia Baffour-Awuah and Daniel Bruneau, and this group is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Kildonan (Mr. Curry).

And also seated in the public gallery from Royal School we have 25 grade 3 and 4 students under the direction of Chad Gustafson. And I would point out that in this group, Sienna Vermette, daughter of Becki Derksen, our website administrator for the Legislative Assembly, is in this class. And this group is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Charleswood (Mrs. Driedger), and that would be me, and they told me that they are wearing pink today because they are standing up a gainst bullying.

And also in our public gallery we have the Member of Parliament Robert -Falcon Ouellette, and we welcome here to the Manitoba Legislature. ORAL QUESTIONS Regional Health Authorities Budget for 2018 Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Well, I want to say to the students here today that we want to help you end bullying in our schools and so all the work you're doing, we very much think it's awesome. And I also want to put on the record that I am very happy that the Winnipeg Jets are in the playoffs tonight, Madam Speaker.

I remember back in the day when I was a TV reporter, the return of the Jets was one of the best stories that I covered. On that day, I watched the mayor of the city at that time fill a promise and dance in a conga line at The Forks, and I provided play -by-play coverage of a ball hockey game that was happening at Portage and Main. Now, we know that the Jets have been to the playoffs since their return, but this year feels different. We have an amazing team, and EA Sports did their simulation of the NHL playoffs last night and they predicted the Winnipeg Jets to win the Stanley Cup this year, so go, Jets, go.

On another note, when will the Premier stop his cuts to the health-care system? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): Madam Speaker, the Winnipeg Jets got better this year because they addressed some of the problems they had. They didn't turn away from them like the NDP are telling us to do. If you're going to make improvements, you've got to admit when you have a problem, Madam Speaker. Manitobans knew they had a problem two years ago and they decided to change things. The Jets have changed things for the better, and Manitoba's better for it, and they changed their government too, and Manitoba's better for that too.

Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: Well, we know health -care professionals are calling two minutes on the Premier for interference–interference with the great work that they're doing to deliver care to patients all across the province. Now, we know that he likes to stand in the House and recite his message, but the stories that we hear show that those numbers just don't add up. We know that patients are waiting longer to see a doctor.

We know that they don't even have a wait list for physiotherapy anymore because that service has been cut entirely, and the care that patients are receiving in hospital is undermined as we see that nurses and health-care professionals ar e stressed and are being forced to work back-to-back shifts at a rate that, you know, is unprecedented in recent memory.

1214 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 11, 2018 We also know that the regional health authorities had to submit their budgets to the Premier for approval by the end of March. So the –can the Premier tell the House: How much did he direct the RHAs to cut from their budgets this year? Mr. Pallister: Well, Madam Speaker, the myth of cuts is all the member has to foist on the people of Manitoba, but it is, of course, a myth, and we are investing in health care, as the No. 1 priority of Manitobans, more than half a billion dollars more than the NDP ever did.

That being said, Manitobans knew that the NDP management of health care was ranking us last in the country, and they put them in the penalty box, where they belong, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: We know that the Premier's refusal to answer questions in this House is no different from the way that he's been treating Manitobans on the issue of health care. They've been asking for answers as to where did this plan come from to close the emergency rooms in the city of Winnipeg.

None of them remember–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –voting to close emergency rooms in the last election. Now there was a slight reprieve when, you know, this government decided to delay things, but they could go one step further and just announce that the plan to shutter the Concordia and Seven Oaks emergency rooms are just off the table. But all the other cuts and closures and service reductions that we've seen in the system are having an impact.

So I would ask again: We know that the Premier has already made his directives to the regional health authorities for this year, so can he tell the House how much did he direct the RHAs to cut? Mr. Pallister: Well, the member has a short memory, Madam Speaker, because I believe that most of the people in this House, certainly, and the people who work here an d the people across the province remember what they voted for in the last election. They also remember what they voted against. They voted against Canada's longest wait times. They voted against Canada's highest ambulance fees.

They voted against the least sustainable health-care system in the country under the NDP with billion -dollar deficits becoming the norm. What they've got now is a government that's ready to face the challenges of making things better, and good luck to the Jets tonight for being better. We hope they continue a long time, just as we believe Manitobans want this government to continue for a long time too. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a new question. Minimum Wage Increase Request Mr.

Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): We know that life is getting a little bit more difficult for people in the province. It's getting more difficult because transit fares are going up as a result of cuts that this government has made. We know that there's going to be a new carbon tax implemented that won't be revenue neutral, meaning that money won't be going back to Manitobans in the province here, and we also know that hydro rates are going up because of the decisions being made by this government.

Now, what has the government sought fit to do for working Manitobans, for some who we might classify as the working poor in our province? Well, they've seen fit to deliver a raise of only 20 cents. Now, 20 cents, I'm sure we can all agree, is not going to be e nough for those working full -time jobs trying to provide for their families to keep up with all the additional cost of living expenses that are coming down the pipeline. So when will the Premier come forward with a real plan to bring the minimum wage in our province to $15 an hour? Hon.

Brian Pallister (Premier): Well, one thing that has become eminently clear, Madam Speaker, is that although the NDP may have a new lead er, they have the same old ideas, and those ideas involve keeping–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Pallister: And those ideas, of course, involve taking money away from hard- working Manitoba families and seniors so they can spend it. Madam Speak er, they have a legacy of record tax hikes. Every Manitoban who has home insurance knows they now pay 8 per cent more for it thanks to

April 11, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1215 the NDP broken promise on not raising taxes when they added the PST to home insurance. They also added 8 per cent onto the cost of benefits that people purchase to protect their families. * (14:00) This is not how you leave more money in the pockets of Manitobans, Madam Speaker. Raising the basic personal exemption by $2,020 in 2020 does leave a significant amount of money in the hands of working Manitobans and seniors, and that is one measure of many that we are undertaking to strengthen the finances of Manitoba families.

Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: You know, if they just increased the minimum wage to a living wage, then that would put substantially more money into the pockets of working Manitobans. Now, as –that would be money that they could use to spend as they see fit. Now, I appreciate that the First Minister's raising his broken promise, the promise that they broke that was reported on yesterday, that they're not going to be indexing the basic personal exemption once they pass the carbon tax bill.

So I'll acknowledge him for, you know, put ting on record that he did break a promise there. But the question was, when are they going to stand up for working people in Manitoba and come forward with a real plan to bring the minimum wage in our province to $15 an hour. So I'll ask him again: When will the Premier bring a timeline into this House to bring the minimum wage in Manitoba to $15 per hour? Mr. Pallister: Well, Madam Speaker, the difference couldn't be more evident. The member references broken promises, something he himself has great experience with, as does the NDP.

However, in our case, we are keeping the promises we made to Manitobans when we asked for their permission to fix the finances, repair the services and rebuild the economy of our province. And so, by raising the basic personal exemption by $2,020 in 2020, we will be giving every Manitoban–every working Manitoban–a raise. Madam Speaker, we're also committed to reducing the PST, which the NDP raised. We have also committed to lowering the small -business tax on small businesses that are our engine of growth. Madam Speaker, what does the NDP have as a new position? The same old, same old position.

They're against lower taxes for small businesses; they're against lower taxes for seniors, and they're against lower PST for all Manitoba–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Pallister: –families. We know what they're against, Madam Speaker, but we're not sure what they're for. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: So, again, the question was on the minimum wage.

In the face of the Premier's hikes to hydro rates, in the face of an increasing Winnipeg Transit fare, in the face of higher tuition, what does he deliver to working people in this province? Well, an increase of only 20 cents to the minimum wage. We've s een other provinces that are moving towards $15 an hour find success with that. In fact, they now have unemployment rates that are better than under this government here in Manitoba. We know that the unemployment rate –the situation has deteriorated under what this–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr.

Kinew: –Province–what this provincial government has delivered. So perhaps they could take a step in the right direction, start to deliver real support to people in our province and come forward with a plan to bring the minimum wage in Manitoba to $15 an hour. Mr. Pallister: The member's entitled to his own opinion, but he's not entitled to his own facts, Madam Speaker. And the unemployment rate in Manitoba is lower than every other province but one in Ca nada, and we're aiming to be the lowest in Canada. Our average weekly earnings last year increased by 2.4 per cent. That is second highest among all provinces.

That's the highest in five years through Manitoba. He speaks about more money in people's pockets, Madam Speaker; we're building the economy of this province in partnership with small enterprises around the province to make sure there are jobs for people who want to work. And, Madam Speaker, that is the key to getting out of poverty, is giving people an opportunity to work and to develop skills and to use those skills in a

1216 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 11, 2018 province that rewards their work with lower taxes. That's what we're about; that's most certainly not what the member and his party are about. QuickCare Clinics Winnipeg Closures Mr. Andrew Swan (Minto): Madam Speaker, I quote: QuickCare clinics are there to meet your unexpected health- care needs during times when other clinics may be closed. QuickCare clinics are staffed by nurse practitioners and registered nurses who diagnos e and treat your minor health issues, saving you a trip to the emergency department or having to wait for regular clinic hours.

QuickCare clinics provide walk -in services as well as by appointment. End quote. Why did this Minister of Health and this Cabinet approve the closing of five Winnipeg QuickCare clinics earlier this year? [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Health , Seniors and Active Living ): Madam Speaker, as I tried to explain to the member in Estimates yesterday afternoon, and I might have the opportunity again this afternoon, the QuickCare clinic resources were moved to the ACCESS centres.

The ACCESS centres had lots of empty space, and in some cases they had floors of empty space, so those resources were moved into there and rebranded as now the Walk-In Connected Care Clinics. So there's now Walk-In Connected Care Clinics at many of the ACCESS centres in Winnipeg. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Minto, on a supplementary question. Mr. Swan: Well, Madam Speaker, in my quote in the first question, I wasn't quoting a past press release or historical document.

I was actually quoting the current Southern Health authority website, which directs residents to the QuickCare clinic, which continues to be open Monday to Friday, 9 a.m. to 9 p.m., and Saturday from 10 to 6 in the city of Steinbach, and I'll table that if the minister isn't aware of that. The current website tells us how QuickCare clinics are part of a broader provincial–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Swan: –plan for health care and how QuickCare clinics provide more convenient and timely care.

Why does this minister believe it's fine to deny most residents of the city of Winnipeg a health- care treatment option that continues to operate in his own backyard? [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Goertzen: Madam Speaker, I know there's been more sightings of the Loch Ness monster in Steinbach than there have been of NDP MLAs over the last 10 years, but I'll try to explain this to the member. The QuickCare clinic resources in Winnipeg were moved into the ACCESS centres and now they are Walk -In Connected Care.

There is still a QuickCare clinic in Steinbach and in Selkirk because there are no ACCESS centres in those communitie s, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Minto, on a final supplementary. Mr. Swan: Well, it's indeed strange. I believe we've touched a bit of a nerve on that side of the House, but who else has been touched have been the nurse practitioners–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Swan: –and nurses who are working in those QuickCare clinics who were deleted by this government. This government didn't simply move everything along.

They closed QuickCare clinics for most of the 750,000 r esidents of the city of Winnipeg. But what has happened? Well, and now the Minister of Health wants to remind us, no, there's a QuickCare clinic, it's just in his backyard and in the area of the member for Selkirk (Mr. Lagimodiere). When will this minister–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr.

Swan: –stop trying to balance the budget on the backs of Winnipeggers who need health care and start investing in health care closer to home, saving the system money by allowing people to avoid trips to emergency rooms as the southern authority website tells us? [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Goertzen: Madam Speaker, I feel sorry for my friend from Minto. I know there's a big game tonight. He's probably been scouring the Crown corporations looking for free tickets, so he hasn't had the time to review Hansard yesterday, when I clearly said the

April 11, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1217 QuickCare clinics in Winnipeg, those resources were moved into the ACCESS centres. There were new Walk -In Connected Care Clinics that were opened, and the only reason, Madam Speaker, why the ones in Steinbach and Selkirk remain open is because there is no ACCESS centre in those communities. I hope he has good fortune in finding tickets for the game tonight, but not on taxpayers' expense, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: As everybody's using hockey analogies, I don't think you want me to put any of you in a penalty box today, but the heckling is getting a little bit hard for me to hear some of the language, so I do ask everybody to please so–show some respect for those that are asking and answering so we can all properly hear the answers. * (14:10) I have started my list again, so I do have a potential penalty box list, and I would also indicate to all of you that there are –while our galleries may not be full today, on a daily basis we have almost 400 people watching question period.

And I would just indicate they're all paying attention to what's happening here. So I would encourage that everybody try to do their best, if you can, and listen to the people that are asking and answering questions. Labour Relations Services Budget Reduction Inquiry Mr. Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): Labour mediation and other supports for workers have been important to ensuring a lengthy period of healthy labour relations between employers and private sector workers in this province, yet in Estimates, the minister revealed that he's cut lab our relations support by hundreds of thousands of dollars.

The minister fails to realize that these services help maintain good relationships and should be improved, not cut. Will the minister change course, reverse his cuts to labour mediation and other supports for workers? Hon. Blaine Pedersen (Minister of Growth, Enterprise and Trade): Before I address the member's question, I would just like to inform the House, last night I was at the 2018 Project Management Institute Project of the Year awards gala.

There were seven nominees in there, and got –honourable mention goes to Manitoba Legislative Building, Chamber accessibility awards, Accommodation Services for a job well done. Madam Speaker was there, our Clerk, Patricia Chaychuk, was there, and a special shout -out to project manager Lynn Selman for a job well done, project on time and on budget. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Flin Flon, on a supplementary question. Mr. Lindsey: So I see this minister's fallen into the trap of not answering questions anymore either.

So, Madam Speaker, the minister fails to appreciate the important services that these programs provide. Labour relations experts like Professor Julie Guard at the U niversity of Manitoba dispute the minister, noting that if labour relations have been good, and I quote, why change the apparatus that's working so well? End quote. These services and the staff that provide them should be enhanced, not cut, but I suppose this should come as no surprise, as the minister questioned the loyalty of his own civil service.

And while I appreciate the minister did apologize for those remarks, will the minister now do the right thing and reverse his cuts to these important programs? Mr. Pedersen: What the member fails to recognize is that there is good working relationships between labour and employers. It's been going on for a number of years now, contrary to what it was many years ago. The calls to the Labour Relations Department have gone well down. It's because of this good working relationship that employees and employers have there is not the need for that employer relations as there once was.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Flin Flon, on a final supplementary. Mr. Lindsey: This last week has been a test of the minister's loyalty to Manitoba's workforce, and, quite frankly, he's failed. So what did he do? He raised the minimum wage by two dimes, an insult to working Manitobans. The minister should be focused on i mproving relations between workers and management and making sure there is a living wage. Instead, the minister has cut programs that help workers and management work through their disputes.

1218 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 11, 2018 Is the minister actively trying to undermine the government's r elationship with workers, or does he just not care? Mr. Pedersen : The member seems to think that $2,020 increase to every Manitoban, on every kitchen table, is insignificant. We think that's very significant, and we will continue to lower taxes to make it more affordable for Manitoba to live, contrary to what the previous NDP government did, where they raised taxes on the most vulnerable people in Manitoba. Judicial System Review Mental Health and Addictions Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St.

Johns): Yesterday, the Minister of Justice insisted that her vague strategy to improve Manitoba's criminal justice system is sufficient in addressing police -involved deaths. Page 3 reads, and I quote, we have to address the needs of people with chronic and acute substance abuse–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Ms. Fontaine: –issues in a broader way. Manitoba Justice will work with other departments across the provincial government, end quote. The Department of Health has undergone a year- long review of Manitoba's mental health and addiction services.

That report has been sitting on the Minister of Health's desk for quite some time, Madam Speaker. This seems like the perfect opportunity for the Minister of Justice to make a change. So, did the minister work with th e Health Department and VIRGO to review her services? Hon. Heather Stefanson (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Once again, the member is factually incorrect. I will say that I'm happy that she has finally found the report. Yesterday she was saying that there wasn't a report that was tabled. I'm glad that she has found that, where it's been on the website for almost a month.

So I'm glad that she's finally found that report. And that report indicates all of the wonderful things that we're doing with law enforcement to ensure safer communities and more timely access to justice. I want to thank our law enforcement officers out there for all they're doing to ensure that addictions in our province are handled, and we will continue to work with the m across government departments, across–and with stakeholders in our community. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a supplementary question. Ms.

Fontaine: The minister must know what she has to do, or at the very least needs to figure out what she needs to do to address this issue by engaging the Minister of Health. Instead of taking action, instead of following the lead of programs across the country which have seen success in reducing the dangers individuals with mental health issue s face when they encounter police, instead of doing anything, the minister kicked the can down the road and launched a so- called strategy, vague, with no specific commitments, no funding attached to it. When will this minister take action? Mrs.

Stefanson: It's my understanding that VIRGO did reach out to a number of stakeholders and did that consultation process, so it was a very comprehensive consultation process. But what will I –what I will say to the member opposite is that we're looking for solutions that will not only make our communities healthier and safer today but tomorrow as well. So it's very important that we have a comprehensive strategy that works with law enforcement, with all stakeholders out there. And that's what our government is comm itted to doing. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a final supplementary.

Restorative Justice New Program Inquiry Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): The minister's so-called strategy indicates that Manitoba will make a more effective use of restorative justice. So why would the minister see fit to cut successful restorative justice programs like Restorative Resolutions or cut more than $180,000 to Elizabeth Fry and John Howard? Instead, she says that she will cobble together, and I quote, departmental staff who were already working in restorative justice, and I quote again, and programming currently offered into a shiny new restorative justice centre.

Will the minister admit there are no new restorative justice programs being offer ed by her department? Hon. Heather Stefanson (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Yesterday, the member opposite

April 11, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1219 said that there wasn't a report. Now I'm happy that she's made it to, in fact, page 5 of the report, Madam Speaker, where it talks ab out our comprehensive restorative justice system strategy. I will say, Madam Speaker, that a couple of days ago, I had the honour of being out in Steinbach, where we announced $50,000 to Headway, actually, to community mobilization programs. [interjection] I hope the member for Minto (Mr. Swan) can find his way out to Steinbach, because I can tell him, Madam Speaker, it's worth the trip.

Civil Servants Reporting Ethics Concerns Auditor General Recommendations Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Madam Speaker, last month, the Auditor General released a report following up on past recommendations. * (14:20) One of the many unimplemented recommen - dations is the framework for an ethical environment, first tabled in 2014. It said, a well-constructed values and ethics framework is a key element in ensuring a strong ethical environment.

However, the report says, no action has been taken with respect to recommendation 14, which is to develop and implement a process to enable employees to report concerns of ethical misconduct. Why is this government ignoring this recommendation 'despide' the need for it being now more than ever? Hon. Heather Stefanson (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): This government takes the issue of ethics very seriously. It's why we have introduce a number of pieces of legislation to work towards that.

I'm also very proud of our Premier and the Clerk of Executive Council and– along with the Minister responsible for the Status of Women (Ms. Squires), who have introduced a new harassment in the workplace policy. I want to thank them for the hard work that they've done. We take that very, very seriously and we will continue to ensure that those ethical standards are maintained here in Manitoba. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for River Heights, on a supplementary question. Mr. Gerrard: Madam Speaker, two years in government and still no ethics policy. It's obviously not a priority.

The Auditor General's report continues: Employees need to be aware of where and how to report ethical issues and feel safe doing so. The Premier has promised a no- wrong-door approach, but it 'accears' that when it comes to ethics there is no right door, and when it comes to meeting the Premier, there is no door at all. How is the government going to make sure that civil servants can be protected when reporting ethical concerns? [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Order. Mrs.

Stefanson: The facts are, Madam Speaker, that the Premier's had more than 3,000 meetings with Manitobans across this great province of ours, and we continue to listen to Manitobans each and every day. We are also very proud of the fact that recently our government introduced that –which the member talked about, the no- wrong-door harassment in the workplace policy, Madam Speaker, and again, I want to thank the Clerk of the Executive Council for his role. It's important, Madam Speaker, that we get rid of the culture of concealment u nder the previous NDP government. We are committed to doing that.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for River Heights, on a final supplementary. Mr. Gerrard: Madam Speaker, the Auditor General reported that in a survey a third of his government's departmental employees are personally aware of ethical misconduct or fraudulent activity within their workplace, and yet only half have been reported to management. These are shocking statistics. The Premier claims to want to improve the civil service. Instead, he wants to freeze wages, lay them off, score them, make sure they have nowhere to report ethical violations and then blame their leaving on a lack of loyalty.

Will this government immediately implement ethical codes of conduct and ethics reporting mechanisms for everyone covered under the whistleblower protection act? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): Well, to torture the analogy, Madam Speaker, the member wa s tripping

1220 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 11, 2018 over that question. He was part of a federal government that made the largest reductions in health-care support in the history of Canada. He supported it. He denied it was happening at the time, but it did happen, and it's happening again, Madam Speaker, and he sits quietly by, does nothing. He speaks about ethics in his ghost -written question but he forgets about the sponsorship scandal and the Gomery behaviour and the various things that the federal Liberal government seems to be wanting to repeat in latter days.

What we would like to see is progress and co-operation on the front of ending harassment in the workplace. That's why we'd like to see the NDP make public their two-month-old inquiry. Their little closet inquiry hasn't revealed anythin g to anyone about harassment as a consequence of their own internal investigations, and if they fail to release that report, Madam Speaker, they may well be accused of continuing the culture of concealment when it comes to harassment. Canadian Agriculture Partnership Signing of Federal Agreement Mr.

Doyle Piwniuk (Arthur-Virden): Madam Speaker, unlike the NDP, who had no time or respect for agriculture during their almost two decades in power, our Progressive Conservative government knows that Manitoba's farmers and food processors are the backbone of our economy and that we continue to see growing global demand for their world-class products. Can the Minister of Agriculture update the Assembly on the important developments that occurred last week, and what effects they will have on agricultural sector? Hon. Ralph Eichler (Minister of Agriculture): Thank the member from Arthur -Virden for that question.

Madam Speaker, some of the members in the Chamber are well aware that the Canadian agriculture partnership was recently signed with the federal minister. This is a huge commitment to our agricultural sector. Not will it help us to expand farm operations, Canadian producers, investments in agriculture –over $176 million over the next five years wi ll go towards innovation, research, development of markets and trades, risk management. And go Jets go; go farmers go. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Rail Line Transportation Concern for Manitoba Producers Mr.

Ted Marcelino (Tyndall Park): Rail backlogs are an urgent problem for Manitoba producers. Yet, the minister seems set on letting others deal with this crisis. We asked for an urgent debate on this issue, but the government decided this was just not important enough. Why is the minister failing our producers? Hon. Ralph Eichler (Minister of Agriculture): I'm–feel a bit of a blush, here. Three questions in two days. I can't tell you –[interjection]–yes. It's getting up there with Health, but we got a ways to go. But the member asks a very serious question. It has to do with the federal government and Bill C -49.

We will see yields increase from year to year. This will be a market that sat, that's going to have to expand, and Bill C -49 will not just fix the rail transportation issue. We're going to see bigger yields, we're going to need more train cars, and legislation cannot provide that. What needs to happen is have trains that are ready to go when we need to have them, and get into marketplace. I'll explain the rest of it to the memb er on my second question. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Tyndall Park, on a supplementary question. Mr.

Marcelino : The Manitoba Progressive Conservatives supported the disorganized termin - ation of the Canadian Wheat Board. We can see the results of that today. Now, when it's time to stand up for Manitoba producers, the Government House Leader (Mr. Cullen), like the Minister of Agriculture, said that it is a federal issue. The member is wrong. Manitoba producers are hurting. Why can't he do anything about it? Mr. Eichler: I thank the member for the question.

We have been in consultations not only with the federal minister of transportation, the federal minister of agriculture, our keystone 'agricult ' producers–and I can tell the member, and members of this House, that we take our position very seriously. And that's to get our grains and oilseeds

April 11, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1221 and our produce to those markets on time, on budget. And predictability and sustainability is really what this is all about. We will make –be the government that gets that done. Not like 17 years of regression for agriculture that was how it's brought forward before. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Tyndall Park, on a final supplementary. Mr. Marcel ino: Coming to my fifth question for – in two days: the minister sends a letter when what is needed is action. The Churchill line is out of commission, and there is an urgent rail backlog for all producers.

This government continues to say, like the Government House Leader (Mr. Cullen), that it's just a federal issue. * (14:30) When will the government start standing up for Manitoba producers? Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): Madam Speaker, I am proud to say that on the government side of the House, we represent all but about 15 farm producers in the entire province of Manitoba, and my colleagues do it exceptionally well.

Madam Speaker, we are standing up for agriculture after years of punitive m easures by the previous government, including attempting to shut down one sector entirely, including adding unnecessary and burdensome red tape to the operation of farm businesses and family businesses that caused many of them to go out of business. Madam Speaker, the results are these: this past year, we led Canada in private sector capital spending growth, No. 1 in the country, and we are expected to do the same next year.

Such investments as Simplot and the Roquette plant will create hundreds of jobs and bring over $1 billion, already, of capital investment to this province. But I would also say, Madam Speaker, there are things that have happened this past year we don't deserve to take credit for because others were responsible. But we are very proud of our farm families for leading the country in farm cash receipts. They increased by 8.8 per cent last year. The member's gloom and doom just doesn't cut it in the ag sector. He should get outside the Perimeter and talk to some farmers once in a while.

Tax Credit Changes for Caisses Populaires Impact on Francophone Community Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Merci beaucoup, Madame la Présidente. Cette dernière décision du gouvernement de Pallister d 'annuler la déduction d’impôt des caisses et des coopératives de crédit inquiète énormément de gens et d’instit utions, dont notamment la Caisse populaire qui offre un service essentiel aux francophones dans la province. Hier, j'ai demandé au P remier ministre dans les estimates, il a dit que ça c 'était un « small issue ». Mais c 'est un grand enjeu pour la communauté francophone dans la province.

Alors qu 'est-ce que le P remier ministre va faire pour appuyer les caisses populaires et autres coopératives de crédit plutôt que de réduire leur efficacité? Translation Thank you very much Madam Speaker. This latest decision by the Pallister government to eliminate the tax deduction for caisses populaires and credit unions is of concern to many people and institutions, in particular the caisses populaires that offer an essential service to francophones in the province. Yesterday, I asked the Premier in estimates and he said it was a small issue.

But it's a major issue for the francophone community in the province. So what is the Premier going to do to support the caisses populaires and other credit unions rather than reduce their efficiency? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): We have tremendous appreciation for the work of the caisse pops and credit unions around the province, Madam Speaker. We know that a temporary concession made to them some years ago is ending in virtually other–every other province in the country and it will end here too.

But what won't end is our admiration for the work of the people who voluntarily serve on their boards, and the tremendous work that they do w ith their clients, in particular with small -business clients around the province and here in the city. We, unlike the NDP, believe in small business, and we believe in its importance in growing our economy.

1222 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 11, 2018 We know that the NDP record was one of punishing small -business people and, in fact, imposing higher taxes on them –business taxes, personal taxes, the PST as well. Madam Speaker, we're going to lower taxes in those categories. The NDP will continue to oppose that, but we know that credit unions and cai sse pops will do more business with Manitobans because Manitobans will have more business to do with them.

Madam Speaker: I would just like to point out that even in French translation, that when referring to members of this House, it has to also be in accordance with our rules that we are not to refer to individuals but by their titles or their constituencies. So I would ask everybody's co-operation. And time for oral questions has expired. Point of Order Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Assiniboia, on a point of order. Hon. Steven Fletcher (Assiniboia): Yes, thank you Madam Speaker. Can I go ahead? Madam Speaker: Yes. Mr. Fletcher: Madam Speaker, truth in timing is important.

Today and every day, time ticks down in each question period when there are no questions or answers; other things are going on. And this is to the great detriment of all the MLAs, but also to the people of Manitoba because they do not get the opportunity to get the questions and answers in a timely manner, and we run out of time. Madam Speaker, I wonder if you would be able to investigate why the clock ticks when there are no questions or answers, and how things can be done to improve the situation, like stopping the clock. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I would thank the member for those comments, but I would also point out to the member that this is not a point of order. It is in the direction of the Speaker that the clock continues to run.

We are following the rules of the House, and if the member is inte rested in making any changes to how the House operates, those discussions are to be had with the House leaders, as has been a very long tradition in this House, and I believe I have indicated that on a number of occasions before and so I would just urge th e member to take those concerns in that direction and not continue to bring them up in the House, because that is the way legislatures work. * * * Madam Speaker: The time for oral questions has expired. I had indicated that. Petitions? The honourable member for Assiniboia. Mr.

Fletcher: Yes, Madam Speaker– Madam Speaker: On a point of order? Mr. Fletcher: No, on a matter of privilege. MATTER OF PRIVILEGE Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Assiniboia, on a matter of privilege. Hon. Steven Fletcher (Assiniboia): I regret to have to raise this. This place is for freedom of speech. This place is to allow for exchanges. Points of order have their role, and, with the utmost respect, to be told what can or cannot be raised in a point of order is out of order, in my view.

I'm bringing this up at the first opportunity, and it is a –meets the criteria of prima facie and also is consistent with the traditions of this place and the House of Commons. Madam Speaker, I'm simply raising an is sue of timing. It affects independents as well because I still have not asked a question in the two years I've been in this place. My colleague from The Maples has not asked a question –or has asked one question, and this is because the clock runs down and the rotation never gets to other independents, even though other independents get up to three questions at question period.

So, Madam Speaker, to be told not to raise an issue that deals directly with our rights and privileges is not consistent, and I'm a fraid, and with all due respect, that the resolution is to stop the clock when someone is not–a sitting MLA around the horseshoe is not speaking, and as you correctly stated, it's in with your purview to deal with this issue, and it's a simple solution. Madam Speaker, again, I don't like the fact that this has to be raised, but to be –the other issue, of course, is being told what to say, what not to say other than–it's just not appropriate.

So, thank you, Madam Speaker. * (14:40) Madam Speaker: On the m atter of privilege raised by the honourable member for Assiniboia , I would like to inform the House that a matter concerning the

April 11, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1223 methods by which the House proceeds in the conduct of business is a matter of order, not privilege. Joseph Maingot, in the se cond edition of Parliamentary Privilege in Canada, states on page 14 that allegations of breach of privilege by a member in the House that amounts to complaints about procedures and practices in the House are, by their very nature, matters of order.

He als o states on page 223 of the same edition, a breach of the standing orders or a failure to follow an established practice would invoke a point of order rather than a question of privilege. On this basis, I would therefore rule that the honourable member does not have a prima facie case of privilege. I would also indicate to the member that he has brought this up on numerous occasions. This has already been ruled on, so the member is out of order to continue to bring it up. Our rules are very clear and th e member has a copy of the rules book. And the rules across Canada are very similar.

And I would indicate to the member he may want to have a closer look at the rules book. And points of order, I would also point out, are not to be used for debates in the House. Points of order are to be raised based on a breach of a rule or practice. And, in this case, the member needs to take his concerns about some of those issues he's bringing forward to where it belongs and that is not on the floor of the Chamber, it is to be meeting outside of this Chamber with the House leaders on the decisions that are made related to how business is carried on in the House.

That is a long- standing tradition of this House and has been respected by most people over the years, that t his discussion does not take place on the floor of the Chamber. Mr. Fletcher: I'd like to challenge the ruling of the Chair, seconded by the member from The Maples. Madam Speaker: Does the member have support of three other members? The member does not have support of other members, so is not able to challenge the ruling of the Chair. PETITIONS University of Winnipeg–Campus Safety Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

These are the reasons for the petition:

(1) Students, faculty members, members of the community and/or individuals with close ties to the university are troubled about the number of incidents that have occurred on and around the Univ ersity of Winnipeg's campus.

(2) Six notable incidents have emerged during the 2017- 2018 school year, including stabbings, robberies, sexual assault and an attempted abduction.

(3) Individuals should not feel afraid to walk around the university or comm unity at any time of day or night.

(4) The university's security/safety measures have changed over time to address these issues, but it has not been enough.

(5) Students should be able to trust their institution to protect them and make them feel safe during their post-secondary experience.

(6) The university is located in the downtown area, so it is still important to keep the university's doors open to the wider community. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) That the provincial government be urged to support a funding increase towards the safety and security of the University of Winnipeg students, faculty members, members of the community and/or individuals with close ties to the university.

(2) That the provincial go vernment be urged to recognize that the University of Winnipeg is an institution located downtown, which needs additional support to be able to make sure that the doors remain open to the wider community. This petition has been signed by K. Alder, E. Sayapheth-Rousseaux, M. Short and many other Manitobans. Madam Speaker: In accordance with our rule 133(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House. Mr. Andrew Swan (Minto): Madam Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. These are the reasons for this petition:

(1) Students, faculty members, members of the community and/or individuals with close ties to the university are troubled about the number of incidents

1224 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 11, 2018 that have occurred on and around the University of Winnipeg's campus.

(2) Six notable incidents have emerged during the 2017- 2018 school year, including stabbings, robberies, sexual assault and an attempted abduction.

(3) Indiv iduals should not feel afraid to walk around the university or community at any time of day or night.

(4) The university's security/safety measures have changed over time to address these issues, but it has not been enough.

(5) Students should be able to trust their institution to protect them and make them feel safe during their post-secondary experience.

(6) The university is located in the downtown area, so it is still important to keep the university's doors open to the wider community. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) That the provincial government be urged to support a funding increase towards the safety and security of the University of Winnipeg students, faculty members, members of the community and/or individuals with close ties to the university.

(2) That the provincial government be urged to recognize that the University of Winnipeg is an institution located downtown, which needs additional support to be able to make sure that the doors remain open to the wider community. This petition is signed by many Manitobans, Madam Speaker. Mr. Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The reasons for this petition:

(1) Students, faculty members, members of the community and/or individuals with close ties to the university are troubled about the number of incidents that have occurred on and around the University of Winnipeg's campus.

(2) Six notable incidents have emerged during the 2017- 2018 scho ol year, including stabbings, robberies, sexual assault and attempted abduction.

(3) Individuals should not feel afraid to walk around the university or community at any time of the day or night.

(4) The university's security/safety measures have changed over time to address these issues, but it has not been enough.

(5) Students should be able to trust their institution to protect them and make them feel safe during their post-secondary experience.

(6) The university is located in the downtown area, so it is still important to keep the university's doors open to the wider community. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) That the provincial government be urged to support a funding increase towards the safety and security of the University of Winnipeg students, faculty members, members of the community and/or individuals with close ties to the university.

(2) That the provincial government be urged to recognize that the University of Winnipeg is an institution located downtown, which needs additional support to be able to make sure that the doors remain open to the wider community. Thank you. Vimy Arena Hon. Steven Fletcher (Assiniboia): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) The residents of Assiniboia, St. James, greater Winnipeg area and Manitoba are concerned with the intention expressed by the City of Winnipeg to use the Vimy Arena site as an addictions treatment facility.

(2) The Vi my Arena site is in the middle of a residential area near many schools, churches, community clubs and senior homes, and the City has not considered better suited locations in rural, semi-rural or industrial locations such as St. Boniface industrial park or the 20,000 acres at CentrePort.

(3) The City of Winnipeg has indicated that the Vimy Arena site will be rezoned from park to commercial use to accommodate the addiction treatment facility and has not sought public input from the community to consider better uses for this facility consistent with a recreational area.

April 11, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1225

(4) The province licensing system is akin to that of a dentist's office and is clearly insufficient for the planned use of the site by the City and the Province.

(5) The proposed rezoning changes the fundamental nature of the community, zoned as a park area, and the concern s of the residents of St. James regarding safety, property values, and their way of life are not being properly addressed. The people of St. James are largely hard-working, blue collar , middle-class citizens who are family-oriented toward children and seniors and do not have the financial resources of other neighbourhoods.

(7) This type of facility would never be considered for the popular Assiniboine Park or Heubach Park, the park between Park Blvd. east and west, even though it shares the same zoning designation as the Vimy Arena site.

(8) The City and Province would be setting a dangerous precedent with this quote, unquote, process that could put other neighbourhoods at risk for future unwanted development without proper consultation.

(9) The Province needs to be inclusive in the decision-making process and improve its programs to prevent drug abuse and better supervise the provision of drug prescriptions that could lead to addictive behaviour. * (14:50) We petition the Legislative Assembly as follows: To urge the provincial government to take all necessary steps to ensure that the Vimy Arena site is not used for an addiction treatment facility. Madam Speaker: The petition has not been read as printed.

Is there leave to accept the petition as printed? [Agreed] TO THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA: The background to this petition is as follows: 1. The residents of Assiniboia, St. James, greater Winnipeg area and Manitoba are concerned with the intention expressed by the City of Winnipeg (City) to use the Vimy Arena site as an addictions treatment facility. 2. The Vimy Arena site is in the middle of a residential area near many schools, churches, community cl ubs and senior homes and the City has not considered better suited locations in rural, semi-rural or industrial locations such as St.

Boniface industrial park or the 20,000 acres at Centre Port. 3. The City of Winnipeg has indicated that the Vimy Arena site will be rezoned from park to commercial use to accommodate the addiction treatment facility and has not sought public input from the community to consider better uses for this facility consistent with a residential area. 4. The provincial licensing sy stem is akin to that as of a dentist’s office and is clearly insufficient for the planned use of the site by the city and the province. 5.

The proposed rezoning changes the funda mental nature of the community, zoned as a park area, and the concern of resi dents of St. James regarding safety, property values, and their way of life are not being properly addressed. 6. The people of St. James are largely hard- working, blue collar, and middle class citizens who are family-oriented toward children and seniors, and do not have the financial resources of other neighborhoods. 7.

This type of facility would never be considered for the popular Assiniboine park nor for Heubach Park (park between Park Blvd. east and west) even though it shares the same zoning designat ion as the Vimy Arena site. 8. The City and province would be setting a dangerous precedent with this "process" that could put other neighbourhoods at risk for future unwanted development without proper consultation. 9. The province needs to be inclusive in the decision making process and improve its programs to prevent drug abuse and better supervise the provision of drug prescriptions that could lead to addictive behaviour.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the Provinc ial Government to take the necessary steps to ensure that the Vimy Arena site is not used for an addiction treatment facility. University of Winnipeg–Campus Safety Mr. James Allum (Fort Garry-Riverview): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

1226 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 11, 2018 These are the reasons for this petition:

(1) Students, faculty members, members of the community and/or individuals with close ties to the university are troubled about the number of incidents that have occurred on and around the University of Winnipeg's campus.

(2) Six notable incidents have emerged during the 2017- 2018 school year, including stabbings, robberies, sexual assault and an attempted abduction.

(3) Individuals should not feel afraid to walk around the university or c ommunity at any time of day or night.

(4) The university's security/safety measures have changed over time to address these issues, but it has not been enough.

(5) Students should be able to trust their institution to protect them and make them feel sa fe during their post-secondary experience.

(6) The university is located in the downtown area, so it is still important to keep the university's doors open to the wider community.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: That the pr ovincial government be urged to support a funding increase towards the safety and security of the University of Winnipeg students, faculty members, members of the community and/or individuals with close ties to the university ; and secondly, That the prov incial government be urged to recognize that the University of Winnipeg is an institution located downtown, which needs additional support to be able to make sure that the doors remain open to the wider community.

This petition is signed by Brittany McCutcheon, Nguyen Uu Thanh An, and Yassine Elqaboury and many other Manitobans. Tina Fontaine–Public Inquiry Mrs. Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. These are the reasons for the petition.

(1) Tina Fontaine was murdered at the age of 15 years old, and her body was found in the Red River on August 17, 2014.

(2) Tina Fontaine was robbed of her loving family and the Anishinabe community of Sagkeeng First Nation.

(3) Tina Fontaine was failed by multiple systems which did not protect her as they intervened in her life.

(4) Tina Fontaine was further failed by systems meant to seek and pursue justice for her murder.

(5) Tina Fontaine's murder galvanized Canada on the issue of missing and m urdered indigenous women and girls, MMIWG, as she quickly became our collective daughter and the symbol of MMIWG across Canada.

(6) Manitoba has failed to fully implement the recommendations of numerous reports and recommendations meant to improve and protect the lives of indigenous peoples and children, including the Manitoba Aboriginal Justice Inquiry, Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples and the Phoenix Sinclair inquiry. We petition the Legislative Assembly as–of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the Premier of Manitoba and the Minister of Justice to immediately call a public inquiry into the systems that had a role in the life and death of Tina Fontaine, as well as the functions of the administration of justice after her death.

(2) To urge that the terms of reference of a public inquiry be developed jointly with the caregivers of Tina Fontaine and/or the agent s appointed by them. Signed by Lindsay Donnick, Briont Allegra [phonetic], Keely McPeek, and many other Manitobans. Medical Laboratory Services Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Madam Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) The provision of laboratory services to medical clinics and physicians' off ices has been historically, and continues to be, a private sector service.

(2) It is vitally important that there be competition in laboratory services to allow medical clinics to seek solutions from more than one provider

April 11, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1227 to control costs and to improve service for health professionals and patients.

(3) Under the present provincial government, Dynacare, an Ontario -based subsidiary of a US company, has acquired Unicity labs, resulting in a monopoly situation for the provision of laboratory services in medical clinics and physicians' offices.

(4) With the creation of this monopoly, there has been the closure of many laboratories by Dynacare in and around the city of Winnipeg. Since the acquisition of Unicity labs, Dynacare has made it more difficult for so me medical offices by changing the collection schedules of patients' specimens and charging some medical offices for collection services.

(5) These closures have created a situation where a great number of patients are less well served, having to travel significant distances in some cases, waiting considerable periods of time and sometimes being denied or having to leave without obtaining lab services. The situation is particularly critical for patients requiring fasting blood draws, as they may experien ce complications that could be life-threatening based on their individual health situations.

(6) Furthermore, Dynacare has instructed that all patients requiring immediate results, STAT's patients, such as patients with suspicious internal infections, be directed to its King Edward location. This creates unnecessary obstacles for the patients who are required to travel to that lab rather than simply completing the test in their doctor's office. This new directive by Dynacare presents a direct risk to pat ients' health. This has further resulted in patients opting to visit emergency rooms rather than travelling twice, which increases cost to the public health-care system.

(7) Medical clinics and physicians' offices service thousands of patients in their communities and have structured their offices to provide a one-stop service, acting as a health -care front line that takes off some of the load from emergency rooms. The creation of this monopoly has been problematic to many medical clinics and physicians, hampering their ability to provide high- quality and complete service to their patients due to closures of so many laboratories. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the provincial government to request Dynacare to reopen the closed laboratories or allow Diagnostic Services of Manitoba to freely open labs in clinics which formerly housed labs that have been shut down by Dynacare.

(2) To urge the provincial government to ensure high-quality lab services for patients and a level playing field and competition in the provision of laboratory services to medical offices.

(3) To urge the provincial government to address this matter immediately in the interest of better patient-focused care and improved support for health professionals. Signed by Jan Charison, Bruce Hallmuth, Roberta Stobbs, and many others. University of Winnipeg–Campus Safety Mr. Matt Wiebe (Concordia): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly, and the reasons for the petition are as follows:

(1) Students, faculty members, members of the community and/or individuals with close ties to the university are troubled about the number of incidents that have occurred on and around the University of Winnipeg's campus.

(2) Six notable incidents have emerged during the 2017- 2018 school year, including stabbings, robberies, sexual assault and an attempted abduction.

(3) Individuals should not feel afraid to walk around the university or community at any time of day or night.

(4) The university's security/safety measures have changed over time to address these issues, but it has not been enough.

(5) Students should be able to trust their institution to protect them and make them feel safe during their post-secondary experience.

(6) The university is located in the downtown area, so it is still important to keep the university's doors open to the wider community. We petition the Le gislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) That the provincial government be urged to support a funding increase towards the safety and security of the University of Winnipeg students, faculty members, members of the community and/or individuals with close ties to the university; and

1228 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 11, 2018 * (15:00)

(2) That the provincial government be urged to recognize that the University of Winnipeg is an institution located downtown, which needs additional support to be able to make sure that the doors remain open to the wider community. And t his petition was signed by many Manitobans Tina Fontaine–Public Inquiry Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns ): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. These are the reasons for this petition.

(1) Tina Fontaine was murdered at the age of 15 years, and her body was found in the Red River on August 17th, 2014.

(2) Tina Fontaine was robbed of her loving family and the Anishinabe community of Sagkeeng First Nation.

(3) Tina Fontaine was failed by multiple systems which did not protect her as they intervened in her life.

(4) Tina Fontaine was further failed by systems meant to seek and pursue justice for her murder.

(5) Tina Fontaine's murder galvanized Canada on the issue of missing and murdered indige nous women and girls, MMIWG, as she quickly became our collective daughter and the symbol of MMIWG across Canada.

(6) Manitoba has failed to fully implement the recommendations of numerous reports and recommendations meant to improve and protect the lives of indigenous peoples and children, including the Manitoba Aboriginal Justice Inquiry, the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples , t he Phoenix Sinclair inquiry–and the Phoenix Sinclair inquiry. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the Premier of Manitoba and the Minister of Justice to immediately call a public inquiry into the systems that had a role in the life and death of Tina Fontaine, as well as the function of the administration of justice after her death.

(2) To urge that the terms of reference of a public inquiry be developed jointly with caregivers– with the caregivers of Tina Fontaine and/or the agent appointed by them. And this was signed by Karen Ridd and many more Manitobans. Madam Speaker: Grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS House Business Madam Speaker: I would like to advise the House that in accordance with subrule 4(5), I have received written notification from the government and opposition House leaders that the House will be sitting in the Committee of Supply on the morning of Friday, April 13th, 2018.

Accordingly, Estimates will be held that morning from 10 a.m. to 12:30 p.m. * * * Hon. Cliff Cullen (Government House Leader): Would you canvass the House for leave to alter the Estimates sequence for today so that following the conclusion of consideration of the Department of Growth, Enterprise and Trade in room 254, the Department of Infrastructure will be considered instead of the Department of Finance?

Madam Speaker: Is there leave to alter the Estimates sequence for today so that following the conclusion of consideration of the Department of Growth, Enterprise and Trade in room 254, the Department of Infrastructure will be co nsidered instead of the Department of Finance? Leave? [Agreed] Mr. Cullen: I thank the members of the Assembly for that accommodation. Madam Speaker, wou ld you call Committee of Supply. Madam Speaker: It has been announced that the House will consider Estimates this afternoon. The House will now resolve into Committee of Supply. Mr. Deputy Speaker, please take the Chair.

April 11, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1229 COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) GROWTH, ENTERPRISE AND TRADE * (15:00) Madam Chairperson (Sarah Guillemard) : Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now resume consideration of the last item, Resolution 10.1 of the Estimates for the Department of Growth, Enterprise and Trade. Are there any further questions? Seeing no further questions, I will now deal with the resolution. Resolution 10.1: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $3,367,000 for Growth, Enterprise and Trade, Administration and Finance, for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2019. Resolution agreed to. This concludes the Department of Growth, Enterprise and Trade.

Madam Chairperson: Is it the will of the committee to recess so that we can switch over departments? [Agreed] The committee recessed at 3:08 p.m. ____________ The committee resumed at 3:10 p.m. INFRASTRUCTURE * (15:10) Madam Chairperson (Sarah Guillemard): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now resume consideration of the Estimates for the Department of Infrastructure, which last met on April the 5th, 2018, in another

section of the Committee of Supply. As previously agreed, questioning for this department will proceed in a global manner. The floor is now open for questions. Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): I would assume that the minister is aware of a really well -written

article today in the Express Weekly News in which it is pointed out that the member for Interlake (Mr. Johnson), who is serving in the–on the Treasury Board since last August and who was involved in the approval of a contract No. 6857 for a total of over $7.652 million, this was approved by Treasury Board and Cabinet, and the member, I believe, failed to disclose that his daughter worked for the company who got the contract.

I also believe that this particular contract–the company that got the contract, Sigfusson Northern, made campaign contributions not only to the Conservative Party but also to the member for the Interlake, and that it has been shown that this particular contract is not only 70 per cent overvalued, as we had been led to believe by competitive contractors in the Interlake, but the Manitoba Heavy Construction Association just came out with their report comparing this contract to seven other similar types of contracts which say that this contract is now double –twice–as expensive as it should be for the work being done.

So I would like to know what the minister has to say about that. Hon. Ron Schuler (Minister of Infrastructure): On Monday, April the 9th, there was this thing called question period in the Manitoba Legislature, and at that time, the member for Elmwood asked the following question, and I'm quoting directly from Hansard: On March 23rd, 2016, a t an election campaign rally outside of Tergesen & Sons General Store in Gimli, the Premier (Mr. Pallister) stated that the current member for the Interlake was his wife Esther's uncle.

Seventeen months later, on August 17th, 2017, the Premier quietly appointed the member for the Interlake –his wife's uncle –to the plum job as a member of the Treasury Board, the most powerful committee of Cabinet. Within four months, Madam Speaker –within four months, the Treasury Board issued –and then the Speaker interrupted because the member's time had expired. And the individual that the member for Elmwood was referring to who the Premier was referring to was one Kjartan Johnson. And I'll spell that for Hansard. K -j-a-r-t-a-n Johnson, or pronounced Kjartan Johnson or–it's Icelandic.

So I want to point out to members of the committee, because these allegations have gone on for a while. And I'd like to point out that the –and I have to be careful that I don't use the member for the Interlake's name, that the member for the Interlake is–comes from a family of–he's got a –two brothers, Lance and David and then, the member for Interlake. And nowhere in that strata of the Johnson family is there a Kjartan Johnson. So–or an Esther Johnson, for that matter, Esther Pallister.

1230 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 11, 2018 But so, if you go to the next line of the family, the–these children are the children of a Wayne Johnson, who was brother to Edwi n and Donna Rae, and mother, Dorothy Kortmeyer, who also had similar –siblings of Carl Kortmeyer and Irene Thompson. And the parents, Wayne Johnson and Dorothy Kortmeyer–nowhere in the lineage there in the family is there a Kjartan Johnson. So there's no connection there.

So, if you follow the Johnson line –because, clearly, the Johnson line wouldn't come out of the Kortmeyer family, so it would make sense that we would follow the Johann Johnson side of the family who had siblings –Johann, Inol, Lorne, Neil and a sister Aenone, spelled E -n-o-hyphen-n-e, for Hansard –Jack and Steevy, a sister, spelled S-t-e-e-v-y. Nowhere in anywhere there is there a K jartan Johnson. There is no connection. There's no K jartan anywhere in this family lineage. One of the things that many of us are taught when we come into this building is that words matter. Things we say matter.

So, fr om time to time, some of us do misspeak. It's happened to myself; it's probably happened to others. And, from time to time, we have to say I'm sorry, I misspoke. I might have been given wrong information. I'm wondering if the member for Elmwood (Mr. Maloway) is prepared to take this moment that he's going to have right away and apologize to the member for the Interlake and apologize to Esther Pallister for having made an allegation that is unfounded and is not true. Is he prepared to apologize? Mr. Maloway: What I would have to say about that Conservative Party campaign rally was that the Premier (Mr.

Pallister), in response to the question, did indicate that he was eulogizing Kjartan Johnson, who had passed away –I believe his words are –two weeks before this meeting. Well, in fact, that's totally incorrect. Mr. Johnson was still very much alive at that time and did that – not pass away for almost two months –five days shy of two months. So the Premier is totally –evidently misspoke himself about this meeti ng. This meeting was attended by probably 20 media outlets. There are audio records, and what I was given was a written transcript. And I –having had people listen to the tape, it could go either way.

But I want to thank the member for clearing this up about the relationship between the member for the Interlake and the Pallister family. * (15:20) But we are here for some very important questions about this member from the Interlake's involvement in becoming a member of the Treasury Board on, I believe it's August 17, and within three or four months we have a sole -source contract worth over $7 million given to a company that employs his daughter, given to a company that donated to his own campaign and given to a company in which the family contributed a fair –a number of contributions to the Conservative Party itself.

And not only that, we have a situation where we have a contract that has been indicated today by the Manitoba Heavy Construction Association is not just 70 per cent overvalued and padded, as the c ontractors in the Interlake have told us based on the tabulation seats, but it's 100 per cent –100 per cent–and part of this is federal money, so what –we're actually taking from the feds as well. So we want to know how this member has such a magical touch, does an amazing job, gets appointed to the Treasury Board in August and within a couple of months there's a sole -source contract worth over $7 million.

Daughter actually works for the company, the company contributed to his campaign, the company contributed to the Conservative Party, and the value that the taxpayers are getting for this by the Manitoba Heavy Construction Association is half of what we're going to be paying. I'd ask the minister to explain this and start by telling me when was this contract approved by the Treasury Board and by the Cabinet. Mr. Schuler: Well, I have spent many years with the member for Elmwood in this Legislature.

His time here and then like Halley's Comet he took off and briefly, briefly shone his light in Parliament and then was gone again and then about a year and a half later he showed up to shine his bright light again in the Manitoba Legislature. But I would point out the member that he is allowed his own opinions; he cannot sit at the Legislature and manufacture his own facts. I'd like to point out to him that he continuously shreds his

April 11, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1231 credibility when he fabricates stuff, when he makes stuff up. I would like to point out to the member, first of all, the tender that was given to First Nations in northern Lake Manitoba, that is all provincial money. The member for Elmwood (Mr. Maloway), again, should apologize for having put misinformation on the record. The member for Elmwood is–cannot sit here like some kind of a misinformed photocopier or printer and just keep printing out misinformation, misinformation, misinformation.

His credibility is being shredded with every moment that he puts this kind of misinformation on the record. The question finally comes down to is there anything that the member for Elmwood says that is actually factual. I want to go back and ask the member for Elmwood: Is he prepared to apologize to the member for the Interlake and to Esther Pallister for having fabricated something that was clearly and patently not true?

And why would a member of this Legislature turn his political guns on a family member of someone in this institution, falsely putting stuff on the record about someone's family member and not be prepared to sit at committee and say, okay, I got it wrong; I had the wrong information; my–the research could've been wrong? But there is something called integrity, and when you blow it like that, and especially –you know, to some degree, another member of the Legislature? Though I still think that's wrong, is –that's still one standard.

But to go after individuals' families and attempt to smear the family when they –we all have families. And, by and large, our families didn't ask us to be part of this political process; neither were they asked if they would agree to be part of this process. They are our families. They come along with us, but they shouldn't be fair game, and they shouldn't be part of collateral damage when we do our politics in this Chamber. And I ask the member for Elmwood: Is he prepared to apologize, (

a) to the member for the Interlake for putting false information on the record, and more importantly, to be prepared to apologize to Esther Pallister, who's an outstanding woman who spent a lot of time nursing her mother while her mother was sick and finally passed away. Esther Pallister does not deserve to be part of our politics here in this building. Will he apologize? Madam Chairperson: Before I recognize the member, I want to cauti on all members who will participate in the committee about language used that could be very close to implying that somebody is lying.

I do want to encourage, though, that if people have put words on the record that maybe have been mistaken, they have the opportunity to correct the record as well. Mr. Maloway: As I'd indicated before, when dealing with the issue of the campaign rally at Gimli on March the 23rd, the Premier (Mr. Pallister) in response to my question the other day, certainly, you know, spoke about Kjartan Johnson and indicated– put on the record that Kjartan Johnson had passed away two weeks earlier, and the Premier was totally wrong. It was two months, the man was still alive. For two more months.

So, you know, the Premier can talk about getting your facts straight and that, but he was definitely wrong about that. And I know the minister is trying to chew up the clock on Estimates, and we do have – we can make more time available for Estimates, but he's hoping to run out the clock and dealing w ith a issue that we dealt with a couple of days ago. I want to know what he has to say about today's

article in a newspaper that he knows very well, The Express Weekly News, in which they –the author points out that he –meaning the MLA for the Interlake–also said that his daughter did, in fact, work at Sigfusson. And this, I believe, comes about after him denying that at a previous point. And that's why I want to ask the minister to tell me when this contract, this untendered contract, sole-source contra ct, was approved by the member for the Interlake. What was the date of that approval, and what date was it approved by the Cabinet? Mr. Schuler: Actually, member for Elmwood got something wrong again.

What I'm trying to do is help the member for Elmwood correct the record – apologize. * (15:30) Our families are not fair game. We should leave our families out of this. Everybody at this table has family, and we want to leave our families out of it. It is the individuals sitting around this table who chose to challenge a nomination meeting, chose to be a candidate in an election, and chose to sit here. It is the individuals at this table, a nd if the member for Elmwood is not prepared to clear the record, if he is not prepared to apologize, why doesn't he say so?

1232 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 11, 2018 Why doesn't he say –actually, maybe he does feel families are fair game. I don't. I know a lot that went on in this Chamber over 18 years, and never, never would I ever go after someone's family. They're not fair game. And Esther Pallister is a very wonderful woman and brings a lot to her family. She has taken care of her family. She took care of her mother who was dying of cancer. Premier (Mr. Pallister) referenced this in the Legislature, how it was tough in the household because the mom was passing away.

And this kind of a –attack on a family member is unwarranted, and sometimes it's just easier to say, I got it wrong; I'm sorry. And maybe there are members on this committee who've never had to apologize. Maybe there are those people here. Could be. Maybe the member for Elmwood's (Mr. Maloway) one of them. He's –he fells he's–feels he's never gotten it wrong. He feels that he's never had to indicate to anybody that he might have misspoken. Thus he feels he's always right. He never, never has to apologize. And I would say to you, Madam Chair, I am not one of those people. I've gotten things wrong.

School board–there was an individual I one time said something very unkind to, and the next day I apologized and I –the next meeting, I apologized to that same individual at the board meeting. And I'd say to members, when you apologize, you don't apologize because of the other person; you apologize for yourself. That's why you give an apology. It's what builds you and makes you a better human being. And I would say to the member for Elmwood this is a very good opportunity to lay this issue to rest. This isn't the way you want to go through your career. We've all made mistakes.

If there's anybody at this table other than the member for Elmwood who feels they haven't made a mistake, maybe they could raise their hand. Really what it comes down to is, are you prepared to say, I'm sorry; I would like to correct the record; I was wrong in what I put on the record? And then it just moves on. It's funny how a simple apology, you move on, clears the record, and you go on to other things. Instead, the member for Elmwood wants to leave this festering because, the question is, whose family is he going to attack next? Is it going to be the member for Radisson (Mr. T eitsma)?

Maybe it's going to be the member for Assiniboia's (Mr. Fletcher) family; maybe it's going to be the member for Tyndall Park (Mr. Marcelino). Whose family will the member for Elmwood attack next? We don't know. I would suggest he apologize and c lear up the record. Mr. Maloway: I'd like to ask the member, what was the date of the Treasury Board meeting in which this contract was approved? And I'm referring to contract No. 6857. Mr.

Schuler: Well, again, I understand the political nature of the member's question, but I would like to point out to the member that, again, once again he got it wrong and that these construction contracts are with First Nations, and they choose their own joint venture.

So, as much as I know the member for Elmwood is digging in his heels and he's trying to justify some of the errors in some of the information that he's put on the record, I would suggest to him that maybe what he should do is try not to make this even worse than it is because we laid out at our last meet ing together the kinds of hardship that has taken place with our First Nations on the north end of Lake Manitoba, the kind of hardship that they had to go through, where they lost everything. And these contracts give hope, give them the opportunity to get back into their communities, get back into their homes.

I–we pointed out last time that not just is it that they have a new house built on the foundation. It's not even the street's the same, not even the trees, the rocks –they were moved entirely onto a new location. Everything is new. This gives them hope. And, again, the First Nations picked their partners. They–if you will, they chose their partners. I would suggest to the member for Elmwood he also has a choice. He can choose whether or not he wants to take this opportunity to correct the record. And what he did and what he has done is untoward.

It's unbecoming to go into a Chamber where you have immunity and misuse your immunity in the Manitoba Legislature by fabricating things that are not true, by i nsinuating things that are not factually based, hurting individuals who are not part of this process, do not have a voice in the Chamber. There are 57 members in the Chamber that have a voice. And the persons that were being att acked by the member for Elmw ood do not have such a voice. They don't have the ability to defend themselves.

April 11, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1233 They don't have the ability to speak for themselves. They don't have the ability to stand up and correct the record. That is something the member for Elmwood (Mr. Maloway) does have. And the question is, does he have it within him to put on the record that he misspoke, that he apologizes and correct the record? Because it was laid out. If the member wants, I can give him even more lineage, going way, way, way back, if he'd like . And I can point out to him very clearly that there was no connection made the way the member for Elmwood did it in question period.

The question is, will the member for Elmwood take this opportunity and do the right thing, step back, retract that stateme nt, apologize for it and clear the record? Everybody here –everybody here–has families and loved ones, and I dare say, nobody at this table wants their family dragged into this politics. Nobody. Will the member for Elmwood do the right thing, apologize t o Esther Pallister, apologize to the member for the Interlake, clear the record? * (15:40) Mr. Maloway: You know, I simply asked the member to give me the date that the Treasury Board approved this untendered contract. That's all I ask him.

That's –he coul d have answered that with just give–by giving me the date. Instead, he's just taking up his time repeating over and over what he's already done in the past, and I'm simply going to move forward here. And, you know, you can't make this stuff up. This is an outrageous Cadillac contract. The heavy construction industry –we thought, Madam Chair, that this contract looked at the tabulation sheets looked at by two reputable contractors in the Interlake. They said, you know, this contract is like 70 per cent padded–at least 70 per cent, maybe even more.

And now we have the heavy construction industry coming out today and saying it's worse than that. It's 100 per cent padded, and they've compared it to seven similar-type contracts. This is outrageous tha t he refuses to answer questions in Estimates, essentially stonewalling, not to mention the fact that we're talking about a contract here that should be retendered –cancelled and retendered because of not only this; it's double in price; there are donations clearly indicated to the PC Party of Manitoba by Sigfusson construction, who are the contractors listed on the tabulation sheets.

And, in fact, Hope Sigfusson gave a donation to the member for the Interlake. So these are campaign donations. And then, o n top of that, you have the member for the Interlake's daughter working for this company while all this was going on. And we have an

article in the paper today, the Express Weekly News, which clearly said that the member for the –it's not me suggesting something is wrong here; it's the member himself from the Interlake saying that–after he denied it a couple of times, he said his daughter did, in fact, work at Sigfusson. So the circle is complete. So why does the member continue to avoid answering a direct question as to what date was the Treasury Board meeting that approved this untendered contract, and what date was the Cabinet meeting that approved this untendered contract? That's all he has to answer. Mr.

Schuler: Well, and unfort unately, the membe r for Elmwood keeps denigrating his position by putting increasingly false information on the record by his drive -by smears of members and their families. And personally, I'm appalled at this. And he says he simply asks the member. That's – he starts it of f with. Right. We simply ask the member for Elmwood, will he do what people would do with integrity and apologize? Now he's smearing another member of this committee's family. The member for Elmwood seems to have no bottom to what level he'll stoop to to attack people.

This is now an absolute, all -out smear job on MLAs' families. That's w hat the member for Elmwood wants to focus on. Madam Speaker, we have families who work in different places, and, yes, we have children who have jobs out in the economy. That is true. I would point out that there's also an insurance firm that carries the member for Elmwood's last name. W hen has the member for Elmwood ever declared that as he walks the streets of Elmwood, he first asks, have you ever bought insurance f rom insurance company – the one which–the –carries his last name?

Because then he would be in a conflict as a member of the Legislature, speaking to somebody who buys insurance from his company. Or is it safe to say he has shares or he's a partner in a comp any that sells insurance and that's the way it is? Nobody at this table's going to be so unreasonable to think that somehow he's not entitled to have a business that

1234 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 11, 2018 sells insurance. Now, how unreasonable. It's just frightfully unreasonable. And the smear machine just keeps going. So now we have Esther Pallister smeared for being somebody's niece, which isn't true. No apology –no apology for the drive -by smear from the Elmwood– member for Elmwood (Mr. Maloway). No apology for that drive-by smear.

Then he says, at some point in time, somewhere in the history of a company, members of the Legislature might have had family working for a related or unrelated company owned by somebody that does business with government; thus, it's untoward. Another drive-by 'snear'–smear. The member for Elmwood seems to have, like, a whole deck of smear jobs that he's ready to pull from out of his sleeve and just go after the next person and go after the next MLA and smear the next MLA and smear the next MLA's family. This isn't w hat committee is supposed to be about.

We're supposed to be here talking about the department and where expenditures are and how expenditures come to and where that all goes. This committee isn't where individuals like the member for Elmwood can sit here w ith immunity and smear people's families. That is not what committee is supposed to be about, and I say shame on him for doing that. That is untoward from the member of Elmwood. He should apologize to Esther Pallister and the member for the Interlake for a ttacking family members. That is absolutely not on. Hon.

Steven Fletcher (Assiniboia): As I can't be in multiple places at once, I was not present at the beginning of what just seems to have happened here. I'd like to say a few things. First of all, Esther Pallister is a wonderful person. I have had nothing but positive experiences with Esther, and I think everyone would agree, including the Premier (Mr. Pallister), that when he married Esther, he married up. I–also speak about the member from the Interlake.

It has also been my experience that the member for the Interlake has been a hard -working MLA who is someone of –as far as I –integrity and does his work as far as I know. The member for Elmwood I have known, actually, through our time in Ottawa, and he is also a hard-working member representing the people of Elmwood and Transcona, at the time, and where there are similarities or commonalities, I've found that he is able to work with people from all sides of the aisles for the betterment of Manitoba.

So, whatever's going on here, the personal attacks and –I think that needs –that this –with all due respect, Madam Chair, I'd like to move the discussion forward from that. * (15:50) What I did gather from the question is that there was a Cabinet date and a Treasury Board date when this sole -source St. Martin contract was signed. There would have had to have been. I don't actually necessarily believe the minister is responsible for the signing–or the government commitment to that contract.

I wonder if this contract was signed before the minister–or the commitments were made before the minister took on his portfolio, and that he is simply following through on decisions other people made. And simply letting us know what the timelines are will tell us th is, and then just a guarantee that it won't happen again, and we can move on. A simple apology as–was a word that was used earlier –would be fine, but I think it's important to get the timelines clear.

I suspect a decision was made before the minister became the minister, and that he inherited a unfortunate sole -source contract, and I'd like to provide the opportunity of the minister to extract himself from this mess. Thank you. Mr. Schuler: I thank the member for the question. First of all, he will know , having been in federal Cabinet, government makes decisions. So every decision is a government decision –ministers and Cabinets, and there's Treasury Board, and there's PNP, and there's Regulatory Accountability Committee, there's all the committees and there's caucuses–all of that constitutes government.

It was that way under the NDP, it was that way under the Harper government, and it's that way under our government. So decisions are a government decision, and they're made after a lot of consideration, a lot of discussion, and they are made through a process. So I would say to the member for Assiniboia , first of all, it is a government decision, and government makes the decision and government defends the decision. And the member will know that, he was part of a Cabinet, and he was part of that process where he defended the decisions government made.

April 11, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1235 And in this particular case, these were decisions that were made by government, and we defend this position, and we've laid out the defense for why we mad e this decision. I appreciate that there are individuals who disagree with the decision, and we are allowed in this system to disagree with each other on the decision. I would like to say to the member for Assiniboia (Mr. Fletcher)–he wasn't here for th at– you are not allowed to smear members' families. That's not on. That's what the member for Elmwood (Mr. Maloway) has done.

He moved it from a policy conversation to smearing individual MLA's families. That should not be part of this discussion. So appr eciate the memb er for Assiniboia , who served in Cabinet. Maybe it's because out of the years that the member for Elmwood has served here in the Legislature and never seemed to make it into Cabinet, that he doesn't understand how this process works. You leave it on policy. So we can disagree on this policy. I laid out in committee–and the member for Assiniboia was there, the member for El mwood was there–we laid out the rationale, the argument why we made this decision.

Does the memb er for Assiniboia , the m ember for Elmwood, any other member have a right to disagree with that decision? Yes, and articulate it. It's a government decision. We made it for the right reasons. We've stated very clearly why we did that. I laid it out. For those who weren't here, t hey can go into Hansard, they can read in Hansard the rationale why we made that decision. I want to be very clear. I agree with the decision, I stand by the decision, and I will defend government's decision. Mr.

Fletcher: Well, thank you, Madam Chair, and, again, I'm going to be –I've already made my comments about the personal comments, and I hope that we can not waste any more time talking about personal issues or families and focus on public policy issues, and that's what I intend to do. The minister did not answer the question about Treasury Board or the Cabinet minister –or the Cabinet meeting. He is quite correct about the whole of government, and like a good conservative and in responsible government, Prime Minister Harper took responsibility, and if his ministers screwed up, they took responsibility.

So there was two outcomes. The minister would accept responsibility and move on, or there would be a resignation of that minister. Now, if we follow the logic of this minister, it is actually not he w ho has made this decision, that it was made somewhere else, perhaps higher up. That is the only conclusion that can be found. So the minister probably, other than the announcement, was not involved with the nuts and bolts of the decision, and the commitment was made somewhere else. Now, the Free Press had an interesting

article from the president of the heavy construction industry, and I'd like to table it, if that's what we can do here. In this article, the conclusion is the $11-million price tag for the excess road work is much–as much as twice what government and therefore taxpayers could have got had the tender gone to open market. The president of the Heavy Construction Association, in today's paper, says, lastly, we have implored the government not to repeat its mistake, to commit to no further sole-sourcing of contracts. To date, we have not received such a commitment. Madam Chair, here is the opportunity.

Will the minister tell us the timeline, admit that it was a decision made outside of his area of responsibility at the time and apologize, admit the mistake, and we can all move on? And can he do it quickly so I can get a few more questions in? Thank you. Madam Chairperson: The member mentioned tabling certain documents. If it is a public document, it's not necessary to table, but you can provide a copy to the minister. Do you have a copy for the minister? Mr. Fletcher: I'm aware of that rule. It was a figure of speech. I don't have three copies. * (16:00) Mr.

Schuler: Well, first of all I'd like to point out to the member a couple of issues, and that is unlike what we've heard from, for instance, the member for Elmwood, this is something that is not done out of the minister's office. The actual tender, the negotiating, the contracts, are all done within the department. I want to be very clear: Unlike with the Tiger Dam situation, where a minister involved himself directly with negotiating contracts, these contracts the minister–in this case, myself–has actually no

part in negotiating the contracts. I do not know the details of what's going on. I do know that if a tender is going to go out, if it's going to be a single -source tender or

1236 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 11, 2018 if it's going to be an open tender, t hat we know. That is what is approved. The actual tenders and the negotiations are done by professionals, by engineers in the department. And I know that the member for Assiniboia (Mr. Fletcher) knows the occasional engineer and I trust that the engine ers and the professionals in the department (

a) came up with good advice, and came up with a good process. I'd like to point out to the member that the tender itself was not made public; only the unit price was made public, and these roads are then looked at, at the scope, complexity, and location. They will compare, for instance, how much aggregate would be needed and then that goes to scope, complexity, and location. Obviously if you have to get your aggregate further, that adds to the price. But that is something that is done within the department. I'd like to as sure the member for Assiniboia that the minister has no connection with that whatsoever.

That is decided. In fact, I would point out that when we go to an open tender, and this might be helpful for the member for Elmwood (Mr. Maloway) seeing as in his many, many years and then interrupted in Ottawa, then again many years here, he may not know this because he never made it into Cabinet, but that the –when it goes to MERX, it is done through–and I'll just confirm this – be very clear that our department writes up the tender. It then goes on a website called MERX. The tenders come back. The minister never sees those tenders. They do not come to the minister's office. I have nothing to say.

It goes to the department. The decision is done within the department. There's a system in place that has been in place for a long time. Politicians are not part of that decision -making process. Neither would the minister have been part of any part of the negotiations with the First Nations on the single -source agreements that were signed with our First Nations partners. So to be very clear–and I want to make it clear to the member for Assiniboia that it was done –it was negotiated. There were real comparatives that were put in place. Scope, complexity, location were all factored in.

The engineers would have done a comparative. It's easy for individuals to say, and we've heard it before, oh, I could have gotten it for you a lot cheaper, after they've seen what p rice was agreed to. We can't test that. I would point out that this was done by the professionals in the department. And I will stand behind the officials in the Department of Manitoba Infrastructure. Mr. Fletcher: Appreciate the answer from the minister.

And so the minister is agreeing, then, that he had no involvement in the decision- making process and that it was done by the bureaucrats or public servants, who I'm sure are excellent. And the minister's quite righ

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	41-3-31
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	41st 3rd hansardpdf 31.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	7fec3791f1715b76d2b4cd0a139cc7520f096ee9

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