VOL. 1 NO. 9 PRELIMINARY UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PERIOD 3:00 p.m. - 6:00 p.m. TUESDAY, MAY 25, 1982 4 10

May 25, 1982 Tape 542 EC - 1 The House met at 3:00 ° •M Mr. Speaker in the Chair. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Order, please Before we begin today's session, hon. members will recall that in private session last week £ the House gave permission for a photographer to take some pictures pertaining to a Newfoundland history book that is being written and there is a Mr. Justin Hall who will probably take three or four pictures of the Legislature today. Hon. members should be aware of that. STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr.

Speaker, I am happy to report that the position taken by this House in a unanimous resolution on May 18th has been endorsed by important segments of Canadian society.

Strong support has been received from the Government of Alberta through Premier Lougheed, who has telexed Prime Minister Trudeau as follows: "I strongly recommend that you reconsider the decision of the Minister of Justice to take the issue of the Hibernia oil field directly to the Supreme Court of Canadarather than following the traditional practice of allowing litigation of such matters to proceed first by reference to the provincial Court of Appeal and then to the Supreme Court of Canada.

My understanding has been that in the past it was implicitly accepted that by-passing the Court of Appeal in references would only a be done with the concurrence of all governments involved. In the interest of federal/provincial relations, I trust you will reconsider your decision on this matter." Signed: Premier Peter Lougheed. 1139

May 25, 1982 Tape 542 EC - 2 PREMIER PECKFORD: Support has also been received from the Editor-in-Chief of the influential Quebec newspaper Le Devoir, who1in a major editorial on Friday, May 21st, strongly supported the position of the Province, c]inq the political way in which this matter was hand1t simply heartbreaking.

In addition, with respect to the major issue as to whether this unprecedented move breaks with Canadian legal tradition, the editorial stated as follows: "In the present case one must hope that the Supreme Court of Canada out of simple courtesy, out of respect for the good operation of the judicial system, out of respect for the institutions and to avoid being accused of prejudice will await the decision of the Court of Appeal of Newfoundland before taking into consideration the request of the federal government." SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear I 1 1 [1

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 543 MJ - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: I hereby table the translation oF the I eI)evoir cdi tonal f wou H a I so I ike to table a to cx from me to Senator Eugene Forsey, a eminent Canadian Constitutional authority, on May 21st asking him for his view on the matter. On Sunday, May 23rd.,I received the following reply from Senator Forsey, which I hereby table: 'The Dominion governments action isas far as I know,unprecedented. It is in marked contrast to the procedure that government itself followed on the patriation resolutions. It is certainly irroqular.

It interferes with the normal judicial procedure by virtually removing from the Newfoundland Court of Appeal an essential part of the questions placed before it. This is highly improper. It is a tactic which could undermine our whole judicial system." Siqned:Senator Eugene Forsey. UiIE HON. MEMBEPS: Hear, hear! PREMIER_PECKFORD: Unfortunately, two of our Liberal M. P.'s, the M. P. for Gander - Twillingate (Mr. Baker) and the M. P. for Burin - St. George's (Mr. Simmons) have chosen not to support the government in telexes received to date, and rather jumbled telexes have been received to that effect from them.

It is indeed a sad day when we have to look to the Quebec press for unequivocal and strong support on a matter of such importance to Newfoundland while our own M. P.'s find it impossible to break federal Liberal party ranks and support their own Province. Mr. Speaker, I have one further point to make with respect to the federal government's unilateral attempt to circumvent the normal court processes. Mr. Trudeau's telex to me of May 18th and Mr. Chretien's press.statement of the same day refer continuoulsy to Hibernia, and to Hibernia alone. I quote from the 114 1

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 543 MJ - 2 PREMIER PECKFORD: Prime Minister's statement: 'The federal government has today asked the Supreme Court of Canada to rule on the question of whether Canada or Newfoundland has ownership of and jurisdiction over the Hihernia fjld' That is the Prime Minister's statement. But, Mr. Apeaker, the area referred to in the federal question,when plotted on a map, proves to be much larger than Hibernia. Indeed, it covers some 820 spuare miles, and the Hibernia field only comprises some thirty-five square miles or some four per cent of the area in question.

The area contains, in addition to Hibernia, the ''iautilus structure, which is presently being drilled and with encouraginq results. In addition, the area also contains the main part, but not all, of the Hebron Field, which was tested at a combined rate of 9,070 barrels of oil S 4 S 1 1 42

May 25, 1982 Tape 544 P1< - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: per day and 6.2 million cubic feet of gas per day. Further,the area contains part of the Ben Nevis, West Ben Nevis and Terra Nova structures. The Ben Nevis structure has been tested at S a combined rate of 1,857 barrels of oil per day and 22 million cubic feet of gas per day. 0 MR. DINN: In other word they are grabbing it all. PREMIER PECEFORD: These are merely the structures which have been identified to date and other targets can be expected within the 820 square mile area. Mr. Speaker, what does this mean?

First,that the Prime Minister has again misled the Canadian public by conveying the impression that the Hibernia fieldand only the Hibernia field,was at stake, and not Nautilus, not Eebron, not Ben Nevis, not West Ben Nevis, not Terra Nova, and nearly an additional 800 square miles, In addition, the fact that the Hebron, Ben Nevis, West Ben Nevis and Terra Nova structures straddle the boundary of the area which the Supreme Court of Canada is being asked to rule on proves conclusively that one cannot legally or practically decide the ownership of one part of the Continental Shelf without determining the ownership of the whole area in question.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: hear, hear I S PREMIER PECKFORD: The use of the 'Hibernia only' concept is a subterfuge to induce the Canadian public in to thinking that the question before the Supreme Court of Canada is somehow different from the question before the Newfoundland Court of Appeal, thus 1143

May 25, 1982 Tape 544 PR - 2 PREMIER PECKFORD: justifying an unprecedented interference with the established judical system. This move, as Le Devoir states, demonstrates a contemptuous attitude towards the Court of Appeal of Newfoundland, and, as Senator Forsey has stated, is a tactic which couin undermine our whole judicial system.

Members of this Hone should look forward with confidence as events unfold to receiving more support from other sectors of Canadian Society which will increasingly recognize the un- fairness and danger implicit in this latest federal attempt to obtain total control of this Provinces offshore oil resources. And I table,Mr.

Speaker, the relevant documentation as well as the map which shows the fantastic area of land involved in this court reference whichas the statement says,involves at least four or five other separate oil fields with many more oil fields to be identified as we do our seismic work through the companies over the next few months and years. Mr. Speaker, I table the related documentation. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR._NEARY. Mr. Speaker, we do indeed look forward to further comment from various individuals, prominent Candians and newspapers and magazines across Canada on this matter.

It is a very, very interesting case indeed. '\ni as hon. rnember know last wenk 1 L4L

May 25, 1982 Tape 545 SD - 1 El MR. NEARY: we, on this side of the House, voted in favour of the resolution. We want to maintain our own provincial identity in this particular matter and we look forward to heartng comments from prominent Canadians, from new- spapers across Canada and from people like Senator Forsey. I do hope that other opinions that are given by Senator Frosey that the government will pay very strict attention to them. And, Mr.

Speaker, as I say, it is going to be a very interesting case indeed and if I were the Premier of this Province, which I am not, and the administration of this Province, I think instead of carring on a battle of words and propaganda campaign, I think what I would do is put the strongest battery of lawyers that I could find to work - PREMIER PECKFORD: It is done. MR NEARY: - the premier says it is done. Well, I am glad to hear that because all the rhetoric in the world is not going to help the situation now. What we need is a strong battery of lawyers - PREMIER PECKFORD: In our own court. MR.

NEARY: - to fight this case. And then the other question that has occurred to me and has occurred to other people in this province: what would happen, Mr. Speaker - I have not heard the reply to this - if the federal government agreed to withdraw the case from the Supreme Court of Canada? Would the provincial government agree to withdraw their case before the Newfoundland Appeals Court and get back to the bargaining table for hard bargaining and to try to get a negotaited settlement? MR.

SPEAKER (RUSSELL) : Before we proceed with other business I would like to welcome to the galleries today a delegation from the Dunn Town Council, the Mayor, Lou Bailey, Councillor Gerry Appleby, Town Mamaqer Keith Warren and Town Engineer Harvey Brenton. I welcome you to the galleries today. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. 1145

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 545 SD - 2 MR. SPEAKER (Russell): Any other statements by ministers? Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Forest Resources and Lands. MR. POWER: Mr. Speaker, I would just like to take a couple of moments to inform all members of this hon. House on the forest fire situation this past weekend. Durinq 1. the 24th of May weekend we had twelve forest fires reported in the Province,which is a very serious situation. S 1 L3 6

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 546 NM - I MR. POWER. Those forest fires were in Whitbourne, Lewisporte, Bird Islands, near Port aux Basques, Roaches Line, Topsail Hill, St. Thomas Line, Topsail Pond, Mobile Big Pond, Stock Cove in Kniqhts Cove, Lethbridge, Chance Cove and Kellys Pond. Mr.

Speaker, as all hon. members know the forests of Newfoundland are trying to recuperate from ten or twelve years of very serious budworm attack, Any further loss of the resource throuch Forest fires or through negligence or neglect, carelessness, certainly puts the resource in great jeopardy and I just wanted to ask all hon. members of the House certaiol' to keep the part of the public that they deal with ever nindful of the situation as it relates to being careless in the woods, whether it be campfires or with throwing cigarettes from moving vehicles and that kind of thing. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. 000 MR.

TULK: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. member for Fogo. MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, let me say to the minister that we on this side are at least happy to see that he is reporting the number of forest fires in the Province to the House and I note, Mr. Speaker, that most of them are declared out. I would like for the ministerthoughperhaps some other time in this House, if he might, to outline his plans and the equipment that he has this year, the number of bombers, the number of crews and so on.

I agree with him that we cannot indeed lose any more of the forest and I would ask him if indeed the cause of those fires are beinq investioatcd. 1147

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 546 • NM - 2 ORAL QUESTIONS: MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I am not sure which minister can answer my question, whether it is the Minister of Finance or the hon. the Premier, but I would like to know, Mr. Speaker, from either one of these gentlemen how much this advertising campaign is costing the Province. You can hardly turn on your radio without propaganda being blared out over the radio, and full page advertisements in the newspaper about the offshore case and so forth How Much is this costing the Province? MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, I do not know the figure right off the top of my head of the exact cost. What we are doing is there will be ads in, as there was over the week end, in the weekend, of The Daily News,I guess it was, and the weekend, of The Evening Telegram, however much a full page ad there costs. So you are talking about close to $1,000 perhaps or more there. There will be the same ads run in the local papers around the Province.

They cost somewhat less individually, collectively you night be looking at another $1,000 or $2,000. do not know off the top of my head, as I say, but that is perhaps $3,000 or $4,000 in total there, $4,000 or $5,000. There were two ads on the radio stations S a 1 1 L B

May 25,1982 Tape No. 547 ah-1 PREMIER PECKFORD: over the weekend and I do not know what the total cost of that is. I would say it will be another couple of thousand dollars for sure , and that is all right now. There will be additional ads, if need be, later on and what we are now doing as a follow-up is that the Minister of Justice (Mr.

Ottenheimer) is in contact with all his counterparts in the other provinces and we will be getting a firm indication over the next few hours or a couple of days of how many provinces will be supporting us at the court hearing on Friday of this week , and I have been talking to some of the premiers as well. The negotiating team began in Vancouver an Victoria, Calgary and Edmonton area and have finished off the extreme Western extremity of the country.

Next week they will be going to Toronto, then to Ottawa, nd then to Montreal ,soit will be their travel costs,however much it will cost for airplane tickets and hotel accomodations for them in those three cities. But in Toronto next week they will be meeting with all the governments , provincial governments, all the newspaper editorial boards, all the magazine editorial boards and individual or collective groups of press like the CP,with some of the other financial institutions, commercial institutions, oil companies, so it will be their air fare and their hotel accomodations. So that is where it is right now.

Whether additional ads will be needed, for example, in some of the national papers, will depend as events unfold. the Province over the last weekend and for this week, perhaps, we are talking about four or five thousand dollars. MR.NEARY: Mr. Speaker. MR.SPEAKER (Russell): A supplementay. The hon. Leader of the Opposition. 1149

May 25,1982 Tape No. 547 ah-2 MR. NEARY: I am happy to hear that the ads may not continue in the local newspapers and local radio stations because everybody that I have talked to and everybody that you hear talking about it do not seem to see any point to it. We just came through an electi n when this was the issue, the government has its mandate and now it is up to the administration to go on and finish the job.

So perhaps as a final question and S the Premier-really in answering my first question alLyed any fears that I may have had in my mind that we were going to spend several hundreds of thousands of dollars on a local advertising campaign-could tell me what the point is in carrying on a local campaign? MR.SPEAKER (Russell)) The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Well, it becomes obvious to me, Mr. Speaker, a 11 5 ti

May 25, 1982 Tape 548 EC - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: especially again today. You would almost like to commit another few thousand dollars today. The Liberal M.P. for 'ander-Twillingate (Mr. Baker) does not understand. He has claimed, as has the Liberal member for Burin - St. George's (Mr. Simmons), that we . went to court first. They have not read our proposal. . I found out that the member for Gander - Twillingate has not read our proposal and we sent him a copy of it. He did not understand it. And the members for Burin (Mr. Tobin St.

George's the same way, and they are claiming out in the news media that we went to court first as a province. Now, if a Liberal M.P. from Burin - St. George's in the House of Commons does not understand what it is all about, well then, one has to question whether a lot of people know the niceties of the situation. So using that as a launching pad, I think the government would be justified in spending a lot more money on ads, if nothing else to inform the Liberal M.P.s in Ottawa. The long and short of it, the point of it all is simply this, Mr.

Speaker, to inform the Newfoundland people of what has transpired in the last seven days, that the federal government has taken, as Senator Eugene Forsey, a constitutional expert recognized across Canada,has said, an unprecedented step interfering with the normal process of law in this country, and,secondly, to make clear to Newfoundlanders two points, one, the federal government went to court first through the S.I.U. case, enlarged it, which forced * us to go to court, because if we did not, our court might never get a chance to hear it if we had left it in the federal court before the S.I.U.è and two, that we are reasonable Canadians who have a proposal on the table which we want to negotiate and we cannot find anybody 1 151

May 25, 1982 Tape 548 EC - 2 PREMIER PECKFORD: around to negotiate with. MR. NEARY; Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. WEARY: A final quick question for the hon. the Premier. I only received a copy of the proposaL on Friday. I think one of the ministers sent me over hi copy, I believe it was the new minister of Communicatione (Mr. Doyle). For the benefit of my colleagues, would the hon. the Premier arrange for my colleagues to get a copy of the oromosal so thaw could road it? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKLORD: Well, I will have it done in an hour.

Obviously if the members of the House are interested they could easily got a copy. I mean, it is a two-way street and if there is something made public from the government and members opposite do not have a copy, it is easy enough for them to get one. But if they are waiting for us to do it, I am only too happy to do it and we will have it for them in half an hour. MR. NEARY: We 3hould not have to ask for it. PREMIER PECKFORD: Yes, well, we will have it for you momentarily. You could have called Intergovernmental Affairs or my office and had a copy but I will have copies delivered to the hon. members.

I cannot help but cement that it is absolutely abysmal. that members of the Parliament of Newfoundland ,who were aware of a press conference that was held by the PrrI i back a month or two months ago have never seen fit te take the initiative to eQ and get a copy of the material. I agree that the members should have a copy. I will concede the point,that the member5 should have had a copy, automatically, that is number one, do not get me wrong; 1152

May 25, 1982 Tape 548 EC - 3 PREMIER PECKFORD: but number two, if the fish ao not come to me, I will go to where the fish are. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! Mr. pc'aker. a 1153

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 549 SD - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. member for Terra Nova. MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the hon. the Minister of Justice (Mr. Ottenheimer) re this holiday that was called so hastily by the governmmt on Thursday without- , it would appear, Mr. Speaker, duc consideration to the factors and circumstances in declaring a statutory holiday . It caused a lot of confusion, Mr. Speaker among our people, particularly the business community. So I am wondering, Mr.

Speaker, whether the government are contemplating taking any action against those businesses, against those companies which did not take that holiday on Thursday? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Justice. MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, no charges will be laid against any businesses which did not close. MR. LUSH: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Supplementary, the hon. member for Terra Nova. MR. ROBERTS: What about the Labor Standards Act? MR. LUSH: Well, Mr. Speaker, I am certainly delighted to know that the qovernment are not contemplating taking any action against those companies.

A further question to the minister, in view of the financial hardship that this holiday caused a lot of businesses throughout the Province in terms of lost revenues and in terms of paying employees, I wonder whether the governpent are contemplating assisting in any way the employers with payments for that holiday to their employees? MR. SPEAKER: MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, no special subsidy programme has been approved by government to pay people who kept there shops open or indeed closed them. That would be somewhat unprecedented. 1154

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 549 SD - 2 MR.LUSH: • further supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) • further supplementary, the hon. member for Terra Nova. MR. LUSH: And maybe, Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Labour and Manpower (Mr. Dinn) could address this particular question. I am wondering whether or not companies and businesses will be forced to pay their employees in view of the circumstances already outlined,in the way the holiday was declared, whether businesses will be forced to pay their employees? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Labour and Manpower. MR. DINN: Mr.

Speaker, the hon. member should know that under the Labour Standards Act there are sevoral provisions whereby a company can comply with the law and that is that of course the holiday is a legal holiday and that comes under

Section 14. As to what procedure should be followed,

Section 17 covers that fairly clearly and that is that the employee either gets the holiday, gets paid twice the wages properly earned, can get another holiday within thirty days or can have the holiday added on to his vacation. Now if neither of those conditions are met then the a 1 155

May 25, 1982 Tape 550 PK - 1 MR. DINN: employee has the option of going to the Labour Standards people in my department who will investinate and find out, and eventually they will proceed to the Labour Standards Tiibunal, which will make -t an adjudication on whether the employee was treated fairly or notThat is the procedure under the act. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) The hon. member for- Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of the Environment (Mr. Andrews) I understand that during the weekend there was an oil spill discovered in the community of Cartwright in Coastal Labrador.

Could the minister give us a rundown on what is a close approximate figure on the number of gallons that have been lost through this spill? And what action hashis department taken to clean up the spill? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Environment. MR. ANDREWS: Mr. Speaker, the latest information I have is that approximately 2,000 gallons of diesel oil is in a ditch surrounding the tank, Newfoundland Hydro estimates it would be a spill of a maximum volume of 7,000 to 8,000 gallons. Our officials are in Cartwright right now.

And Woodward's Oil who are the people involved here,have committed extra clean up activities today, beginning today. That is about all the information i could give right now. There is no sign of any oil in the harbour at the time. S . MR. WARREN: A supplementary, Mr. Spoaker. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. member for Torngat Mountains. 1156

May 25, 1982 Tape 550 PK - 2 MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, my supplementary to the minister is I understand that at least one or maybe two of the community wells have been contaminated or are in the proces of being contaminated within a matter of a few days with he drainaqe qetting in there. Have any arrangements been made for an alternative water supply for the people who were using those wells? MR.SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. Minister of Environment. MR. ANDREWS: I am not familiar with that difficulty or even if there is a difficulty, but I will endeavour to find out for the hon. member sometime today. MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. member for Port au Port. MR. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, I too have a question for the Minister of EnvironmentMr. Andrews) A sixty to seventy ton whale has washed up in a community in my district, in the middle of the community I guess it is, close to where the fishermen - MR. NEARY: What area? MR. HODDER: Three Rock Cove - the landing site where the fishermen land and pretty nearly in the centre of the community, and it has been there for a week. I did not hear about it until the weekend, but I guess there is starting to be a strong smell in the community. 4 11 57

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 551 NM - 1 MR. HODDER: I was just wondering would the minister look into this matter and has he had a report on the matter? MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. Minister of tlu Environment. MR. ANDREWS: No, Mr. Speaker, we did not have a report on this incident until the member just speaking now did report it to our department and our people from Corner Brook are heading out as quickly as possible. We have notified the RCMP. Under normal circumstances if it were not a large whale - it appears this is a large whale and there might be some difficulty for the local citizens to handle it.

When I get a report back I will inform the hon. House. MR. HODDER: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. member for Port au Port. MR. HODDER: Yes, Mr. Speaker, the whale, I understand is a blue whale,although that has not been con- firmed - PREMIER PECKEORD: Should be good eating. MR.

HODDER: Yes, perhaps so, It would probably cause as much trouble there as in Three Rock Cove, I understand it is about seventy feet long which means about sixty to seventy tons I guess of rotten meat, But I understand that in a case similar to this one time before that the coast guard came in, I was wondering if the minister has any liaison with the coast guard in matters like this? I understand there were a couple of whales beached several years ago as well in St. George's district, 4 and I do not know what happened to those but I do know there was on€ dragged off by the coast guard.

But I would ask the minister if 4 he would look into that angleas will I. MR. SPEAKER (RUSSELL) : The hon. Minister of Environment. 1158

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 551 NM - 2 MR. ANDREWS: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I will. Apparently there are a few whales around the coast at this point in time, different places around the Province. The basic policy of the department is that if it is in a municipality and the municipality can handle the situation, we prefer for them to do it,If, however,it is in an area where there is not a municipality and there are houses and people living around,we will assist in disposing of the whale alonq with the coast guard. MR. POWER: EMO might be able to help you. MR. CALLAN: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Terra Nova.

MR. CALLAN: Terra Nova? Bellevue. MR. SPEAKER: Bellevue, I am sorry. MR. CALLAN: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the minister responsible for wildlife, I am not sure what department or what division that is under now, but I want to ask the minister would he confirm or deny that the number of big game licences, which will be issued this year, will be less than last year. I know last years number was down from the previous year.

Will there be a further decrease in the number of big game licences issues this year, and if so could the minister tell us exactly, or approximately how many big game licences there will be, caribou, and rnoose,if the minister can make a distinction, the number of each? PREMIER PECKFORD:We should have licences awarded in the cityof St. John's. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth. MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker, I am little surprised, the hon. member for Bellevue (Mr.

Callan) being a veteran of the House,would not be aware that wildlife is still in the Department of Culture, Recreation and Youth. But in any event, the answer to his question is first of all that consideration is being given, as 1159

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 552 MJ - 1 MR. L. SIMMS: has been stated publicly, to a lowering of the quota but no final decision has been make. We expect to be able to do that within the next two weeks or so and a public a pronouncement will be made at that stage at that particular time. My understanding at this time it that there does not appear to be a need for a lowering of the quota with the caribou herd, Dot perhaps for the moose hunting licenses. MR. N. CALLAN: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : A supplementary, the hon. the member for Bellevue. MR. CALLAN: Mr.

Speaker, earlier this month we had an announcement that there would be legislation intoduced to possibly punish people who have been caught poaching big game. I wondering could the minister tell us whether or not he intends to bring in that legislation during this session of the House of Assembly? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth. MR. SIMMS: Yes, Mr. Speaker, that matter is also under consideration actively and is being pursued and at such a time as a decision is made we will advise the hon. I-louse. But consideration is being given to the increasing of penalties and so on. MR.

S. NEAR?: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon the Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEAR?: We still have a few minutes left yet. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Bellevue. MR. CALLAN: Yes, a final supplementary, Mr. Speaker. I am wondering i-could the minister inform the House whether or not his department plans to make S 1 •1 1311

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 552 MJ - 2 MR. W. CALLAN: any changes in the issuing of big game licenses. Many sugqestions have been made by members of the House of Assembly,and of course other people who are concerned with the wildlife in the Province, writers in different magazines and weekly papers and daily papers and so on; does the minister's department intend to make any changes in the issuance of big game licenses?

For example, some people suggest, and I have made the suggestion myself, that the issuance of licenses should be like it was,say,ten years ago when there was no draw system and by issuing more licenses and perhaps having a shorter season then the department could take in more money and thus hire on more wildlife officers who could catch a lot of these poachers which all of us,I am sure,frown on. So does the minister intend to make any changes regarding the issuance of licenses as far as that goes. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth. MR. SIMMS: Well, Mr.

Sheaker, there are a few question, perhapsin the hon. member's question. First of all let me say that I had a meeting, in fact today, with the wildlife people, the regional wildlife people and this was one of the items that we had up for discussion. I might add that it is my understanding at least that other provinces in Canada are in fact following our lead and look upon the system that we use in Newfoundland as being one of the best. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SIMMS: I can ----- - I 1 b

May 25, 1982 Tape 553 EC - 1 MR. SIMMS: also say that statistically indications are that approximately 60 per cent of those applicants, because of the new system that has been brought in, the party system and so on, approximately 60 per cent of the applicants who apply have succec; in terms of obtaining a licence. That is the party licence system, and the system is looked upon as beinq a major improvement over what we have had in past years and there are no - well, there are obviously always improvements discussed and considered and looked upon.

There are no particular moves right now in this regard to make any drastic changes but it will always be looked upon as necessary for improvements and that will be continued. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. LUSH. Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. the member for Terra Nova. MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, I have a question as well for the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth. Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the minister is aware of the terrible practice currently being used in Newfoundland, a practice that is quite inhumane and a practice that is against, I am sure, all methods of conservation of our wildlife?

I am referring specifically to the fact that gill nets, fishing nets are being used to catch rabbits throughout Newfoundland. I wonder if that has been brought to the attention of the minister? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth. MR. SIMNS: Mr. Speaker, no specific reference has been made to me. That matter has not been brought to my attention in the two short weeks that I have 11 62

May 25, 1982 Tape 553 EC - 2 MR. SIMMS: been here as minister. There have obviously been other matters, I guess, that have taken up the time of the department officials in briefing me and so on, but that particular issue has not been. I would suggest to the hon. member the direction of the department is to try to improve the educational measures, to try to get the co-operation of the general public in reporting incidents of that nature, and I would suggest to the hon. member that if he has specific incidents that he report them to me as minister and I will certainly look into them. SOME FION.

MEMBERS: Flear, hear MR. LUSH: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): A supplementary, the hon. the member for Terra Nova. MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, I am surprised that the minister is not aware of that. He can take it from me that it is being done, Mr. Speaker, being done in a very big way throughout the Central part of Newfoundland and the Northeastern pert of Newfoundland. My question to the minister is twofold, One, is this practice legal? And, Mr. Speaker, if it is legal or otherwise, will the minister undertake to look into this and certainly have this very terrible method of •1 16 3

May 25,1982 Tape No. 554 ah-1 catching rabbits investigated and looked into? And as I have said it is not only rabbits you are talking about but birds, partridge, ptarmigan, all of this sort of thing, all being caught in these gill nets. MR. SPEAKER (Mr.Russell) : The hon. Minister of fulture, Recreation and Youth. MR.SIMMS: Well, Mr. Speaker, it certainly is a serious charge, of course, and as I say if the hon. member would like to provide me with some specifics outside the House I would be happy to look into it. In any event,I will look into it as he suggests.

I am not sure what the legal implications are but I do want to emphasize again that in matters of this nature, if the general public are aware of them,then the appropriate action is to report it to the department officials so that we can follow up on it. As a matter of fact, Mr.Speaker, last year the increase in the number of charges that were laid regarding wildlife problems and so on,that were associated with wildlife,wcre as a direct result of information provided to the department by the citizens of this Province. And they are to be commended for taking that action and we hope we will ijet more of it.

SOME HON.MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.NEARY: Mr. Speaker. MR.SPEAKER: The hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR.NEARY: Mr. Speaker, we should not take any more long weekends. It is hard to get into full flight after a long weekend. I would like to ask the Minister of Development (Mr. Windsor) a question, Mr. Speaker, in connection with a statement that he made in the last forty- eight hours in connection with an aqreement between Nova 11 5ç

May 25,1982 Tape No. 554 ah-2 MR.NEARY: Scotia, the government of Nova Scotia and the Government of Canada, that concerns the hon. gentleman because it obviously gives,as he indicated, Nova Scotia the edge on Newfoundland as far as getting spinoff benefits from the oil development off our coast is concerned. Would the hon. gentleman care to elaborate on that and toll us why he made that statement and what it is he is concerned about? MR.SPEAKER (Mr. Russell) The hon. Minister of Development. MR. WINDSOR: I will start at the end, Mr. Speaker.

The reason I made that statement was because I was asked the question by a reporter as to exactly what were the implications of a federal/provincial agreement, a Canada and Nova Scotia agreement relating to ocean and marine related industries. So I outlined for that reporter just what the implications were. Briefly, Mr. Speaker, they are this; 1165

May 25, 1982 Tape 555 PK - 1 MR. WINDSOR: There was an existing RDIA federal programme which provides up to 35 per cent capital funds for new industries locating in Canada in particular regions. This new Canada Nova Scotia agreement subsidizes that by a further 25 per cent as it relates to industries moving into Nova Scotia and which are eligible for RDIA funding.

In addition to that, and d even more importantly I guess, is the fact that for industries which are ocean and marine related,which were not covered by the RDIA agreement, there is funding up to 60 per cent,which is equivalent to the sum of the RDIA plus the other subsidies. So in other words industries located in Nova Scotia are eligible for up to 60 nper cent funding.

In addition to that the province of course is putting some funding into building a new industrial park, an ocean or marine industrial park and provide some relief from municipal taxation or subsidies on a decreasing scale to relieve new company from municipal taxation. There is also funding there for a promotion of Nova Scotia and Nova Scotia related industries. It is of some concern to us, particularly since the basis of that agreement is very much parallell to the proposal that this government put before the GOvernment of Canada in 1980 for an industry development agreement.

And in fact many of the concepts that are included in the Canada/Nova Scotia agreement were developed by this Province and by our Department of Development, and in conjunction with Intergovernmental Affairs We have been trying to get a federal provincial agreement very similar to the one that has been agreed to with Nova Scotia. 11 66

May 25, 1982 Tape 555 PK - 2 MR.NEARY: A supp1ementry, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Ni. fC ;upplementary, the hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, this is the first admission that we have had on the part of the administration that Nova Scotia is getting all the benefits of oil development off our shores and all we are getting in Newfoundland are the evils of the oil development so far. PREMIER PECKFORD: Wrong. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, that is the message that I am getting from statements made outside of the House and the statement just made by the hon. gentleman.

Now will the hon. gentleman indicate to the House what steps the administration of which he is a part, what steps have they taken to try to offset the attraction and the political climate in Nova Scotiat Are we considering tax concessions of any kind to entrepreneurs and business and industry that wishes to locate in this Province that has a connection with the offshore development? Mr. Speaker, this is a matter which concerns an awful lot of Newfoundlanders and up to now the government have been denying it. now we have an admission that it is happening.

And can we catch up to Nova Scotia, even if we do bring in some benefits similar to the ones that Nova Scotia Government is giving to attract business and industry. Could the hon. gentleman tell us if we can catch up With 'Tova Scotia now Wir is it too late, have we missed the boat? MR. HODDER: Where is the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) 117

May 25, 1982 Tape 556 SC - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. the Minister of Development. MR. WINDSOR: Mr. Speaker, first of all I have not said that industries are going to Nova Scotia.

I have said that the Nova Scotia Government - and quite . naturally they would be - are making a very strong effort to attract oil-related industry, particularly marine- related industry in general to Nova Scotia, aided and abetted by the federal government,which objected to the fact that Newfoundland has certain local preferences, yet in this same Canada/Nova Scotia agreement there is a clause which provides preference to Nova Scotia based companies. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh MR. WINDSOR: So here is a government that has a different story for Nova Scotia than it does for Newfoundland.

It is also another example, Mr. Speaker, of where the Government of Canada is aiding and abetting other parts of Canada to starve Newfoundland out of the oil business and other businesses. it is another example of agreements with Newfoundland that have been cancelled, funding that has 'been cancelled,or funding that has never been approved, DREE agreements that have not been approved and advantages going to other parts of Canada and not to Newfoundland. I miqht add, however, Mr.

Speaker, that although that may be going on, one thing that they do not have and they will not have is Hihernia, not 55 lOflq as this government is in power. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, tear 1 168

May 25, 1982 Tape 556 EC - 2 • supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) • supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: When you ask a question, Mr. Speaker, all you get from the ministers and from the Premier is whining and crying and bawling over the fact that Nova Scotia is upstaging us. Only because this administration did not do their homework. The hon. gentleman referred a moment ago to a ronosal that was put to the Government of Canada by the provincial government here in connection with assistance to attract marine- related industries to this Province.

Now, that is the first time we have heard of that proposal. Would the hon. gentleman tell us what kind of a proposal it was, what was included in the proposal, how much input would the Province have in the way of financial help and tax concessions and so forth, or was it just a one-sided proposal that was put up to the Government of Canada and nothing forthcoming on behalf of the Province? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Development. MR. WINDSOR: Mr.

Speaker, this proposal was one of, I think, nine proposals which are before the federal government for DREE funding, none of which have been approved over the last three or four years. It provided a whole range of opportunities for industrial incentives for this Province, all of which, of course, were negotiable and all of which, I think, are basically federally/provincially cost shared. We are not looking for any handouts from the Government of Canada. 1169

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 557 SD - 1 We are looking for the same kinds of industrial incentives as they are giving to other parts of Canada. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. MR. WINDSOR: No should expect no less aiid we should receive no less. SOME HON. MEMBERS: I-lear, hear. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, a suppirmertary. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): Supplementary, the hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR.NEARY: Mr. Speaker, one example of how this administration have been negligent in carrying out their responsibilities has to do with a convention centre.

We are told by people in the know in Ottawa that funding is available for a convention centre, yet the Minister of Development (Mr. Windsor) told the whole world there a couple of weeks ago that he knows nothing about federal funds being available for a convention centre in this Province.. If we do not watch it,[lalifax will get the convention centre. Could the hon. gentleman tell us what is being done now to try to bring that badly needed convention centre to Newfoundland,not necessarily to St. John's but to Newfoundland? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Development. MR. WINDSOR: Mr.

Speaker, first of all, the hon. gentleman is totally inaccurate when he says that I was not aware of any funding availahl.c for convention centres. That was not what I said at all - MR. NEARY: You att'cicd daorc Baker. MR. WINDSOR: I was responding to a statement by the MP for Gander - Twillingate which charged that I was dciberate1y trying to take Eunding which had been a i IocLed for the Town of Gander for a convention centre and to put it into St. John's,which is totally untrue. What I said, a 1170

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 557 SD - 2 MR. WINDSOR: first of all, is that there has not been any funding allocated by the federal government for Gander or for St. John's or anywhere else in Newfoundland. There is indeed a programme available. To this date the only funding that has been made available from that programme has been to Montreal, Toronto, and two in Mr. Grey's own district up around the Hamilton area. MR. NEARY: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Order, please Time for the Question Period has expired. PRESENTING REPORTS BY STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES MR. SPEAKER: The hon.

Minister of Public Works and Services. MR. YOUNG: Mr. Speaker, I would like to table the Annual Report of the Public Service Commission. I would like to note, Mr. Speaker, that last year being the Year of the Disabled , that eighteen disabled persons were placed in the Public Service. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. MR. YOUNG: Also, Mr. Speaker, I would like to table the rental index as of April 1st, 1982, where weshow every inch and every cent that we rent in this Province. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Finance 171

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 558 NM - 1 DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, pursuant to

section 28 of The Financial Administration Act, I wish to table copies of Lieutenant-Governor warrants for the year ending Mrch 31st., 1982. MR. NEARY: You should }Lr Senator Forsey said about that. NOTICES OF MOTION: DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, "An Act To Amend The Newfoundland Industrial Development Corporation Act. PRESENTING PETITIONS: MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. member for Terra Nova. MR. LUSH: Mr.

Speaker, I beg leave to present a petition on behalf of some 170 citizens, voters of the Province of Newfoundland, concerned with the survival and economic viability of the community of Terra Nova, which, Mr. Speaker, is contingent upon the maintenance of the Terra Nova Road, that is the road leading from the Terra Nova National Park from the r[ransCanada highway, to and through the village of Terra Nova. Mr. Speaker, I introduced it in that manner because the 170 people signing this petition do not all come from the village of Terra Nova.

They are people actually from all parts of Eastern Newfoundland, from Terra Nova to St. John's, and that is why I have introduced the petition in that particular manner. Mr. Speaker, I will go right to the petition before speaking to it,and it says, "To the hon. House of Assembly, the petition of we, the undersigned, residents of and visitors to the community of Terra Nova, humbly showeth that we protest in the stronqest possible terms the deplorabls condition of the Terra Nova )ac1 that is the road from Terra Nova a 172

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 558 NM - 2 MR. LUSH: National Park, to and through the village of Terra Nova, and do hereby request that the provincial government allocate funds in this fiscal year for upgrading, a 1

May 25,1982 Tape No. 559 ah-i MR.JJUS: reconstruction and paving of this road as your petiti(ncrs as in duty bound will ever pray. Mr. Speaker, the reasons, of course, the general reasons that people want for paving their roads or reconstruction of their roads certain1' exist in this particular case. The fact is that the people from Terra Nova, the residents of Terra Nova and the thousands of people that visit Terra Nova want their roads paved for safe and convenient and comfortable drivina. Secondly, Mr.

Speaker, all of the students from the village of Terra Nova are bused daily to the schools in Glovertowr - they have no school ihere at all, no elementary school and no high schoolr '11 of the students are bused out daily 1 having to get up seven- thirty in the morning and not returning until five o'clock, and driving approximately a distance of some twenty to twenty-five miles1 fourteen miles of which is all gravel and, Mr. Speaker, in a very, very bad condition.

Hon. members will know , of course, that Terra Nova was a logging community and fifteen years ago when technology Wa8 introduced in the logging industry, Price (Nfld) closed out its operations in Terra Nova. Mr. Speaker, I venture to say that there has never been any major work, and construction work, upgrading done to that road since Price (Nfld) pulled o'it some fifteen years ago. And, Mr. Speaker, the economic reasons for doing this road are fairly evident.

Fin- of all,the village of Terra Nova is fast becoming tIi capital, the tourist capital of NewfoundlnndWith many cottages there, many people with cottages Summer and some fifty-seven cottages are there now fully developed 11 7 L

May 25,1982 Tape No. 559 ah-2 MR. LUSH: with people living in them all year-round. And again, even though hon. members are not listening,it is probably because they know so much about the village of Terra Nova. - MR.NEARY: It is a beautiful spot. MR.LUSH: Mr. Speaker, it is again one of the most famous, one of the most popular hunting and S fishing areas in the Province. MR.NEARY: A small resort for big shots from Montreal. MR. LUSH: And also, Mr. Speaker, located in Terra Nova is one of the largest farms in Newfoundland, a poultry farm and root-crop farming, one of the largest farms in Newfoundland.

As a matter of fact,I suppose it is the farm now that gives the economic viability to the town and provides a livelihood for many of the residents in the town and in towns close to the village of Terra Nova, Charlottetown and Port Blandford, So, Mr. Speaker, these are the reasons , Sir, the fact that it is becoming the tourist capital of Newfoundland visite9 by thousands of people riqht throughout the Provincc 1175

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 560 MJ-1 for living in their cottages, which are located by the Terra Nova Lake, and for the hunters and fishermen who travel back and forth to that community right throughout the year, not only in one particular season, Mr. Speaker, but right throughout the entire year. Certainly every reason why, if the government, Mr. Speaker, are promoting tourism, if they are promoting agriculture, then certainly this road needs to be upgraded, reconstructed and paved. And, Mr. Speaker, it was never in worse shape than it has been inthisyear.

As a matter of fact, a teed truck that was delivering feed to the farm just went right down through the road, down to the cab, the driver had to get out through the window. And he could not open the doors he just went right down. That only happened about two to three weeks ago. So, Mr. Speaker, this kind of road in the twentieth century leading to a community that is the tourist capital of Newfoundland, a community with an economic viability and having one of the largest farms in the Province in its community, so, Mr.

Speaker, there is every reason why this road should be paved and I support the petition wholeheartedly and ask for it to be put upon the table of the House and referred to the appropriate department. MR. TULK: The minister is going to support this one. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh MR. CALLAN: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (RUSSELL) : The hon. member for BeUevue. 176

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 560 MJ - 2 MR.W. CALLAN: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I was waiting just to see if the Minister of Transportation (Mr. R. Dawe) was going to stand and support the petition. The road that we are talking about here, Mr. Speaker, for the benefit of the Minister of Labour and Manpower (Mr. J. Dinn) , is the

section of road, I think it is about thirteen miles, which runs from the TCH in the Terra Nova National Park to and through the town of Terra Nova itself. MR. J. DINN: Oh! I went down that road a month and a half ago. MR. CALLAN: Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Labour and Manpower went down that road a month and a half ago. I am sure that the member For Terra Nova (Mr. T. Lush) hopes that the paving equipment will go down over that same road in a month or two from now. 1177

May 25, 1932 Tape 561 EC - 1 MR. CALLAN: Mr. Speaker, in standing in support of this petition so ably presented by my colleague from the district of Terra Nova (Mr. Lush) , I might say that whenever anybody, either on this side or the other side of the House of Assembly, stands up to present a petition involving the upgrading and paving of dirt roads in this Province, I feel inclined, very much inclined to stand and speak in support of such a petition. Because, Mr.

Speaker, the district that I represent, the district of Bellevue, is similar in this respect to many, many districts, especially the rural districts around this Province, Mr. Speaker. The member for Stephenville (Mr. Stagg) the member for Grand Falls (Mr. Simms), the member for Gander (Mrs. Newhook) and a dozen or so members for St. John's and the couple of embers for Corner Brook, Mr. Speaker, have no idea of the number of phone calls that I receive. Just this morning, Mr.

Speaker, I received a phone call from my own district asking - because they know, as the people in the town of Terra Nova probably know, they will not yet any pavement this year or any upgrading. But what they want to know is can they have the second best thing? Can they have the calcium chloride which this government has been using over the past three or four years, I think? And I wonder perhaps, Mr. Speaker, since the Minister of Transportation (Mr.

Howe) is in his seat and hopefully listening, perhaps the minister can provide the members, all members who have distr ts with dirt roads, with a list showing what roads and whEre will be covered, Mr. Speaker, with calcium chloride. T trying to yet that information thia morning from L minister's department and I could not get it after a dozen phone calls, So perhaps the minister would be 1 1 73

May 25, 1982 Tape 561 EC - 2 MR. CALLAN: kind enough to provide members, like the member for St. Mary's - The Capes (Mr. Ilearn) who has over 100 miles of dirt road, and other districts - Twillingate is another one that comes to mind - and the district of I3ellevue, what time, and how much calcium chloride will be ]acod on then (irt roois? 11 79

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 562 NM - 1 MR. CALLAN: Mr. SPéakerj -thispe.tition asking for thirteen or fourteen miles of pavement for the dirt road that leads frOt the Trans-Canada in the National Park to and through the town of Terra Nova - MR. WARREN: Historical town. MR. CALLAN: - Mr. Speaker, I remember back in 1972 when the PC Party was campaigning to be the alternative government, one of the big planks in the PC platform at that time was that we will have a systematic roads programme, not roads ad hocly done here and there at the whims or on a moment's notice - MR. WARREN: By MHAs. MR.

CALLAN: - from an NHJ\, but there will be a consistent and systematic roads programme. I wonder, Mr. Speaker, whatever happened to that plan, whatever happened to it,because here ten years later, in 1982, we have the same system existing about which the former- or the party that took government in 1972 was complaining about. MR. HODDER: The I lc Pemier. MR. CALLAN: It went out through the window, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I support the petition on behalf of the petitioners, the - MR. NEARY: It is not very hopeful. MR. CALLAN: - 160, or 170 petitioners in the town of Terra Nova,and I trust, Mr.

Speaker, that when the budget comes down in a couple of days, that there will be funding providc not only for that particular stretch of road, but for roads all over the °rovince, including of course the district of Bellevu MR. NEARY: Right on 1180

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 562 NM - 2 MR. SPEAIKER (Russell): The hon. Minister of Transportation. MR. DAWE: Mr. Speaker, unlike the ineither for Bellevue (Mr. Callan) I will try and stick to the petition and not wander around and ask questions more applicable to Question Period. SOME HON. MEMBLhS: Hear, heart MR. NEARY: The hon. member was right on that time. MR. CALLAN: The member from Norman's Cove, included in the district of Tel1evue. MR. DAWE: Mr. Speaker, pehaps I have travelled over the road in question before the member representing the district has. The road is like many roads in this Province, Mr.

Speaker, roads that this government would like to see upgraded and paved, new roads built; unfortunately the federal government in the past couple of years has refused to address itself to a number 1ib

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 563 SD - 1 MR. DAME: of major highroad construction and trunk road construction applications through DREE which would have allowed this Province, with the amount of funding available to it, to address itself to some of the secondary roads and by-roads of the Province. The recent election, Mr. Speaker, on April 6th,that was a tremendous victory for all the good blue side over here, as an election - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh. MR. DAME: - fought on this government trying to obtain for this Province the necessary amount of capital funding and the resources.

The federal government does not seem willing to address itself to the needs of this Province, not only in transportation but in other areas. This Province fought an election on an opportunity to develop its own resources and subsequently to get the necessary funding to do all the roads which are a major priority in not only the hon. membors djstrict but all through the Province. Yes, Mr. Speaker, I support the petition. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. member for the Bay of Islands. MR. WOODROW: Mr. Speaker, I have a petition.

I would like to read the prayer of the petition first of all and then make some comments on it. The petition, Mr. Speaker, cones from the community of Summersido and there are lEG names on it. It reads as follows: We the undorsignod residents of the community of Summerside in the Bay of Islands district do hereby seek government assistance in constructing a new road which would open up approximately twenty-five acres of land for new building lots and would 1162

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 563 SD - 2 MR. WOODROW: also eliminate the problem the fam1ies living on First, Second and Third Avenue have in Wintertime trying to get to their homes over a road ihich usually 1 1ü3

May 25, 1982 Tape 564 P1< 1 only four wheel drivescan accomplish. The road would provide an alternative route around a very steep hill which would provide access to about seventy-fiin homes, the Town Hall, and Recreation Centre. This has been a problee for years for the residents of Summersido.. At one time we were promised by the provincial government that thir road would be built but to date this has not been done. So we are again seeking assistance in trying to have this road built. MR. NEI\RY: Are you going to get it done? MR.

WOODROW: There is no problem in acquiring the land needed for the proposed road, as we have met with Bowaters and they agreed to turn over the land we need in the community to the Community Council. They also have, Mr. Speaker, an exhibit here, a map which shows the route of the road and a lot of work has been done on getting this petition ready. I would also like to say, Mr. Speaker, that I have been in contact, have talked this matter over with the hon. Minister of Municipal Affairs (Mrs. Newhook) because it is the local road.

And I would just like to read a letter here I have received from the Secretary of the Finance Committee. "The petition from the residents of the community of Summerside seeking government assistance in constructing a new road was received by the Finance Committee. The Committee decided to refer this matter to the regional office for assessment and recommendation". I would just like to resd thth into the record, Mr. Speaker. Now the met: tr is there fore under consideration at the regional office level in the city of Corner Brook. I would like to say, Mr. Speaker, I- 11 b +

May 25, 1982 Tape 564 PK - 2 MR. WOODROW: I give my full support to the petition. I would also like to add that the communities in the Bay of Islands district, that is, Mr. Speaker, on both sides of the Bay,are growing. It is amazing how these communities are growing. And I sunpose what is happening people are leaving the city of Corner Brook and moving to the North and the South Shore of the Bay of Islands and also, Mr. Speaker, they are going up to the community of Pasadena as well. •1 1 b 5

May 25, 1982 'rape 565 EC - 1 MR. WOODROW: Most of the local roads in these conmiunities are very poor and councils have been trying down through the years and even with the 60/40 amount given, 60 per cent by government and 40 per cent by council, it is still very difficult for these people, no matter what qoodwill they have, to try to maintain their roads and upgrade them and pave them. I believe, Mr. Speake. I would probably say that the answer lies in what the hon. the Premier has been doing over the past couple of years, that is getting a settlement for the offshore. How easy it would be, Mr.

Speaker, for us to get our secondary roads upgraded and paved and our water and sewer systems completed and new ones started if we had our offshore rights settled,with a just and a fair share for our Province. When you come to consider the amount of money - I do not want to be controversial about it, Mr. Speaker - when you come to consiber the I billion That the Province of Quebec is getting and we are getting a mere pittance from the Upper Churchill, these are the things really that are keeping the progress of this Province back. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Ilear, hear MR.

WOODROW: And, of course, now the present offshore dispute: I do hope, Mr. Speaker, that this matter, the offshore dispute, will be settled soon so that we will be able to got along with helping our people, not only to maintain the main roads through the communitie hut the jecul hiuh ntuTh important L U1))Ot L the get it ion Mr. Speaker, and I ask that it be passed along to the 1166

May 25, 1982 Tape 565 EC - 2 MR. WOODROW: Department of Municipal Affairs for their consideration. Thank you. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. the member for Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, I rise to present a petition on behalf of sixty-three people from the town of Rigolet. a 1167

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 566 SD - 1 MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, this is the second time in the past three yeara that I have presented a similar petition and basicail.y it has the same prayer. Since caribou has always been hunted and used as a main source of diet during Winter by the residents of our community of Rigolet and since it is •conomica11y feasible to go to Nain to hunt caribou and since qovernment will not subsidized the charter of an aircraft to hunt caribou for the residents of Rigoict, we the undersigned ask that the Mealy Mountains be opened so that we may hunt caribou for food." Now, Mr. Speaker, to do a little

preamble, the people of Rigolet have said in the past three or four yearsr in fact, I had to go alonq with the government ,there about five years ago ,when they closed the Mealy Mountains because at that time the caribou herd in Mealy Mountains was pretty well slaughtered to extinction. However, as of now, I was talking to the wildlife biologist with the Department of Wildlife, he estimates there is somewhere between 500 and 600 caribou in that area now.

Last year there was some thought of opening the Mealy Mountains on a sort of low-key basis, probaly a limited number of caribou per community or something in that respect. But, Mr. Speaker, during the last provincial election I believe the hon. member for Naskaupi (Mr. Goudie) mentioned that - he would be encouraging the government to take a serious look at the Mealy Mountain caribou hcrd• You know, ii we open it up for Rigolet it also has tabe opened up for Goose Bay, NorthWest aver, Mud Lake, Cartwriqht and so on, all this area. And I am concerned that if we do not watch our - AN HON MEMBER: Bobber. 1168

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 566 SD - 2 MR. WARREN: - bobber, yes, that we may completely annihilate the herd there again. But I would think if the Department of Rural, Agricultural and Northern Development would do for the people of Rigolet what they are doing for the Indians in Sheshatshit, where there was money available for them to go into the country and hunt caribou for food, and if the provincial government would treat the people in Rigolet as 11 9

May 25,1982 Tape No. 567 ah-1 MR.WARREN: equally as they are treating the Indians in Sheshatshit MR. NEARY: That is in North West River. MR.WARREN: Actually that is a new name for the Southside of North t'7est River. It was divided up into two towns. And, Mr. Speaker, if this was considered I am sure the people of Riqolet would he quite satisfied in going to the big caribou herd that is ",-f -1, of Nain and with beinc' able to get the caribou that is needed for the community.

And I venture to say, Mr.Speaker, that all we are talking about in this instance , for this community to start off with.is a very limited, it very limited 'permission to hunt caribou in the Mealy Mountains. Mr. Speaker, the Mealy Mountains are only a fe" miles, a two hour drive for the people of 1igolet to occupy,or to kill their caribou. And, Mr. Speaker, I cannot buy the reasons that I have been given by the Wildlife Department,that we have to wait until the herd can sustain a viable hunt. Mr. Speaker, I think that is a long way down the road. I think it is a long way down the road.

With the population including, let us say, from Cartwright to Goose Bay, Happy Valley, North West River and so on, I would think there should be something put in place, as they have done in Postville this past year and like we are doing on the Island portion of the Province, do the same thing there, probably having a draw system, so many caribou per year until the herd can increase to the point that it could probably 'e a viable operation. support this pe6ition, Mr. Speaker, to the point that either they open up the Mcclv Mountains

section of the Province or else they find financial assistance to help the people of Riqolet so that they 1190

May 25,1982 Tape No. 567 ah-2 MR. WARREN: Can prosecute the caribou IiuiL North of Nain. Thank you. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. MR.SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR.NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I support the petition presented by my colleague the member for Torngat Mountains (Mr. Warren) .And in the process of 11 1

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 568 MJ - 1 MR. S. NEARY: presenting the petition, my colleague made a very a very strong case, a very valid case indeed for allowing the residents of Rigolet to hunt the ever increasing caribou herd in the Mealy Mountain area. lie certainly made a very valid case, Mr. Speaker. And with the price of meat, even here in St. John's joinq up all the time going up we are told by thirty three and one third per cent this week one can imagine how much more it costs in Northern Labrador to buy a bit of beefsteak or a roast of meat? You go down to the sumermarket here in St. John's now, Mr.

Speaker, and it costs anywhere from $20 to $25 to buy a little pot roast for your oven for Sunday dinner, $20 to $25, Can you imagine what it costs in Northern Labrador? It is like gold dust. Fresh meat I would think in Northern Labrador, Mr. Speaker, is almost like gold dust. And what these people - AN HON. MEMBER: No it is not. MR. CALLAN: It tastes better. MR. NEARY: It is not? How much does fresh meat cost in Northern Labrador? It wil]. cost you about $30 for a small roast in Northern Labrador. It will cost $20 or $25 down here at Dominion Stores. MR. GOtJDIE: (Inaudible). MR. NEARY: No, but - MR.

WARREN: Store beef. MR. NEARY: Store beef, I am talking about. It would costI would say at least $30 for a small roast to put in your oven for Sunday dinner, in Northern Labrador And what these people are asking is that they be allowed to hunt caribou exclusively for food. And, Mr. Speaker, that is their right. They have every right to ask that. We are told that the caribou population in the area is now up to 500 or 600. 1 do not know 1192

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 568 MJ - 2 MR. S. NEARY: where the caribou migrate in that area, Mr. Speaker, but I will tell you something that has concerned me for some time is the fact that we have very strict conservation measures in this Province and the moose and caribou go across the boader to Quebec Province in Labrador and they can kill them at random. MR. G. WARREN: Yes. Right on. MR. NEARY: Random They can do what they like. There are no conservation measures. I would imagine, Mr. Speaker, that a lot of these caribou find their way into the Province of Quebec. MR.

WARREN: In Fort Chimo they use caribou meat for dog food. MR. NEARY: And in Fort Chirrio they use caribou meats, according to my hon. colleague, for dog food. MR. WARREN: I saw it myself. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, is there nothing we can do about that? The Province of Quebec does not have the strict rules and regulations, conservation regulations, that we have in this Province and the caribou herds and the moose are back and forth across the 1 3

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 569 NM - 1 MR. NEARY: Quebec border. When a caribou wants to migrate or move around he does not look and say, "Well, I am staying in Newfoundland, there is the Quebec border there." I doubt if they can read and write. And so our people are not allowed to kill a caribou, or to kill a moose for food, but they can do it in Quebec Province, Mr. Speaker. And I think the people of Rigolet have made a very reasonable request, and I think the government should look at it very seriously. I saw the member for Naskaupi (Mr.

Goudie) shaking his head and saying, "No," when my hon. friend was presentinci the petition. Well, I would like to hear the hon. gentleman's views on this matter. MR. CALLAN: He is going to speak now. MR. NEARY: My hon. colleague is not advocating that the caribou herd be hunted at random, that it be in any way threatened. That is not what my colleague is asking for. No, he is not, Mr. Speaker.

My colleague is merely asking that there be a draw in these communities, that there be a quota, that is really what my hon. colleague is saying, a quota every year so that so many people in each one of these communities can kill caribou for food. That is a reasonable request, Mr. Speaker, and it gi.res me great pleasure to support the prayer of the petition. MR. CALLAN: Uear, hear MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth. MR. SIMMS: I just want to address myself briefly to the petition presented by the hon. member for Torngat Mountains. First of all,I believe what the hon.

Leader of the 119 4

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 569 NM - 2 MR. SIMMS: Opposition (Mr. Neary) was talking about really did not have anything to do with the Mealy Mountain herd because that is a herd that really does not go anywhere. The question of )u ; :C verth g e ir' i; a est ion that was addressed in thi House before by ri, predecessor, now the hon. Minister of Transportation (Mr. Dawe) and he tells me that when he presented this statement in Lhe House he was told to sit down and stop wastinq the tji of the House. MR. DAWE: Hear, heart That is true. MR. SIMMS: In any event the question that the hon. member for Torngat Mountains - MR.

NEARY: Now, now, now, do not get mad because I (inaudible) MR. SIMMS: Now the hon. Leader of the Opposition had his say. I did not say anything to interrupt him and I ask him for the same respect, okay? Thank you, very much, Mr. Speaker. He is showing himself now,I guess. In any event,the issue that has been addressed has been addressed properly by the hon. member for Torngat Mountains (Mr. Warren) and all I want to simply say at this stage is that I understand and I know that the departmental biologists and the people in the department 1 1

May 25, 1982 Tape 570 EC - 1 MR. SIMMS: understand the necessity of obtaining protein for the people who live in that area. We understand that clearly, but we also know that there is a very small herd in that particular area - the hon. member alluded to it himself - and that, of course, would create some problems. And I understand that the herd now is even smaller than it used to be. But that would, in itself, create some prohlern. So let me just say that I have discussed the matter with my colleague, the hon. the Minister of Rural, Agricultural and Northern Development (Mr.

Goudie) , who has more knowledge and understanding of the history of Labrador than all of us, probably, put together in this House. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SIMMS: And I will continue to avail of his expertise and knowledge in history on this particular matter as we address the question raised by the hon. the member for Torngat Mountain (Mr. Warren) in the petition he just presented. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! ORDERS OF TUE DAY MR. sIMMs - Order 1, Mr. Speaker, Address in Reply. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): Order 1, Address in Reply.

I think when the debate adjourned last day, it was adjourned by the hon. the member for Bellevue. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Dear, hear! MR. CALLAN: Thank you, Mr. Speakei Mr. Speaker, as I understand tt, I just stood for about thirty seconds or a minute last Tuesday and I have about twenty-eight or twenty-nine n.uts left. I think that is about correct. * 1196

S May 25, 1982 Tape 570 EC - 2 MR. CALLAN: Now, Mr. Speaker, what I was going to do last Tuesday but time did not permit, what I was going to do was perhaps a little bit different from what I will do today because a lot of time and a lot of things have happened since last Tuesday, a week ago. We had the emergency debate last Wednesday and then, of course, the emergency holiday on Thursday and the unexpected but welcome holiday on Friday, and, of course, the traditional holiday yesterday, an extra extra long weekend for those of us in tne House of Assembly. 1157

May 25, 1982 Tape 571 P1< - 1 MR. CALLAN: Mr. Speaker, a couple of speakers who spoke last Tuesday. before I stood to adjourn the debate,made what I think you could classify as district speeches. They talked about their own districts, and that, Mr. Speaker, when you are talking about the Speech from the Throne is traditional, especially, ot course, the new members o[ the House of Assemblywho ware anxious and did a good job, I might say, of talking about their own particular districts. Mr.

Speaker, if I can take perhaps five or ten minutes to talk about the district of Bellevue, the historic district of Bellevue I might say, Mr. Speaker. I have been proud to represent the district of Be1levueexcept fora couple of years when it was represented by the hon. Don Jamieson which is another reason of course why it is historical,the fact that it was represented by such a fine gentleman who served on the federal scene for years and years. MR. TULK: . (Inaudible) very successful. MR. CALLAN: But, Mr.

Speaker, ever since the district of Bellevue was created under redistribution in 1974I was the first member elected in 1975 during that election campaign andof course twice elected since then. MR. CALLAN : Mr. Speaker, the district of Bellevue is historic for other reasons besides the fact that it was represented by the former Minister of External Affairs and DREE and other departments of the federal government. The Premier , Mr. Speaker, was also born in the district of Bellevue, Our present Premier was born in the district of Hellevue. He was born at the Markland Cottage Hospital. 11 8

May 25, 1982 Tape 571 P1< - 2 MR. CPLLAN: While I am on the topic of the Markland Cottage Hospital, Mr. Speaker, we had a couple of petitions presented here earlier today asking for improved roads, and I stood to support at least one of these. Our medical facilities around the Province, especially our cottage hospitals, Mr. Speaker, is another example of where we needed improvements. Mr.

Speaker, let me read from a newsletter that was sent to about half, I suppose, because there are two cottages hospitals in the district of Bellevue there is the cottage hospital at Come By Chance and of course, the one I am talking about now, the one at Markland. So the Markland Cottage Hospital covers about half the district of Bellevue, the Come By Chance Hospital covers the other half 1199

May 25, 1982 Tape 572 CC - 1 of the district of Bellevue and other areas down on the Burin Peninsula as well, the one at Come By Chance. Mr. Speaker, as part of the tactics used in the recent provincial election by the S P.C. candidate and the P.C. Party and supporters thereof, one of the tactics that was used during the campaign was 4 a tactic used by the Markiand Cottage Hospital Improvement Committee, all of whom were Tories.

Why they had to wait for an election campaign to put pressure on the Premier, who was born in this hospital, is beyond me, but it says, a newsletter that went to Chance Cove and Norman's Cove and Bellevue and all of the towns around where I live and down in the other part of the district, down the shore, Old Shop, Blaketown and so on - and I might say, Mr.Speaker, that,mentioning Blaketown, the former and the last President of the University, Mr.

Mose Morgan, was also born in the historic district of Bellevue, he was born in Blaketown, another example of the history that we find associated with the district of Bellevue. But anyway, Mr. Speaker, the newsletter which came from this ImProvement Committee said, "Our committee wishes to inform you of recent developments regarding our efforts to improve facilities at Markland hospital" - where the Premier was born. It says, "On April 6th, 1981,'-that was four days before polling day, in the by-election last Spring - "wo met with the Premier.

He assured us that his government is opposed to closing or downgrading cottage hospitals, including Markland hospital. He also gave a commitment that his 4 officials would research and introduce proposals regarding a new outpatient clinic for the Markland Cottage Hospital." That was April 6th, 1981, four days before polling day that 1200

4 * May 25, 1982 Tape 572 EC - 2 MR. CALLAN: that commitment was made. The Trnprovemcn Conirni tter, of course, wrote this letter just before voting day on April 6th of this year. It says, "On March 17th, 1982 we received a letter from the Premier assuring us that the outpatient clinic would receive serious consideration in the Spring budget." The Spring budqet, of course, has now become a Summer budget or just about that. Hopefully we will get it on Thursday. And then it says, "On March 30th, 1982 at a public meeting in Norman's Cove-which made The Journal and National News and so on in my own home town - C, 126 1

May 25, 1982 'rape 573 PK - 1 MR. CALLAN: 'On March 30, 1982 at a public meeting in Norman's Cove, the Premier made a commitment that he will make every effort to ensure that an new outpatient clinic at Markland Hospital becomes a reality." That is three timer ill a row, April 6, 1981, March 17, 1982, and March 30, 1982.

And fourthly, "Following the public meeting in Norman's Cove" - the one that made The Journal and The National - "following the public meeting representatives of the Hospital Improvement Committee" - all Tories - "met personally with the Premier" - met personally. 'The Premier stated emphatically that the outpatient clinic will he constructed during his term" - or this term, I am not sure what that is. I think it is this term of office - "of his administration.

He further stated that the clinic would be constructed adjoining the Markland Hospital " - rather than out, say, at the Whitbourno intersection of the Trans Canada -" would be constructed adjoining the Markland Hospital as per the recommendations of the Committee." Then, of course, here is the clincher. "Further developments obviously await the outcome of the provincial election on April 6, 1982." That was the general election, of course, we just came through.

Then it says, "We will be meeting with government officials immediately after the election and hope to keep you informed of events as they unfold." Nobody's name signed to it, Mr. Speaker, but it is the arklanc cottage Hospital Improvement Committee. It will be interesting, Mr. Speaker, to see whether or not anything happens on Thursday, whether there is anything in the Budget which will give fruition to the hard work and the many meetings held vi Lii the Premier by the IiOSl)i La] Improvement Commi Ltee. 122

May 25, 1982 Tape 573 PK - 2 MR. NEARY: Their touqh luck. MR._CALLAN: The Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth (Mr. Simms) - MR. SIMMS: I would say that is a beautiful area, down around Markland. I S 4 12 u B

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 574 NM - 1 MR. CALLAN: It is a beautiful area, yes - MR. SIMMS: I would like to find a cabin. MR. NEARY: But if you are down there dyinq (inaudible) MR. CALLAN: I hope, Mr. Speaker, that the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth (Mr. Simms) does build or buy a cabin in the Markiand area because then that will qive us an additional reason not only to have the facilities at tho hospital improved, but the Markiand Road paved as well. That was another promise,by the way that was made during the recent by- election. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh MR. CALLAN: Mr.

Speaker, if I can mention again the tactics, and I do not want to get into this in much detail because it is a bit late now, it is two months ago since all this happened and when you win 1 suppose you kind of have a tendency to forget the tactics, but if I can mention the tactics that were used by a local doctor affiliated with the Markland Hospital, Mr. Speaker, to say the least his tactics were un- gentlemanly, unprofessional - MR. STAGG: Unliberal. MR. CALLAN: Very much unliberal, yes. When a doctor says to his patient, "Nowlady, if I thought you would vote PC on April 6th.

I could probably get you transferred to St. John's quicker, to the Health Science Complex," or whatever, unprofessional, unethical, perhaps unlawful, perhaps unlawful Mr. Speaker - it is the kind of a thing, Mr. Speaker, that points to the fact that the empty promise - I hope, Mr.

Speaker, thaL the promises that the Premier made to the Markland Cottage flospi Improvement Committee are not as empty as the promise that was th made three years ago when he said that he was going to bring in a new ii1ection expenses xct which would have hopefully not permitted the sort of action that that doctor was involved with, and the many other actions that were carried out and not only in the district of Bellevue.Because some of the shenanigans that I have 1 2U4

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 574 SD - 2 MR. CALLAN: heard from other parts of the Province are, to say the least, not at all - MR. PATTtRSON: (Inaudible) vote in Arnold's Cove. MR. CALLAN: The vote in Arnold's Cove 4 I can roll it off for you. The vote in Arnold's Cove last Spring in the by-election, by the way - do you want to jot it down? - last year in Arnold's Cove, and I can spend anklour 1 2u5

May 25,1982 Tape No. 575 oh-i MR.CALLAN: talking about Arnold's Cove and I am sure the member for Placentia os (Mr. Patterson) would be interested in hearing it because I, you know - MR. PATTERSON The member for Placentia East (inaudible) MR.CALLAN: As part of that conversation - MR. NEARY: (Inaudible) Resettlement, yes. MR.CALLAN: - resettlement would have to be an integral part of any discussion regarding Arnold's Cove. But anyway, in Arnold's Cove in last Spring's by- election the vote for the Liberal candidate was 346. It went up.by the wayby thirty-two votes.

MR.TULK It went up in the by-election when Stagg went out there. MR. CALLAN: It went up by thirty-two votes for the Liberal candidate. SOME HON.MEMBERS: Oh, oh MR.CALLAN: Now then, coincidentally the vote for the PC candidate last Spring, the man who is still enjoying a job that was given to him by the infamous Minister of Fisheries (Mr.Morqin) ,provinciaiiy - MR. HODDER: Who did not turn up in ciiu LluuSO by the way. MRCALLAN: - who (jot a jol compliments of the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) - SOME HON.MEMBERS: Oh, oh MR. CALLAN: - a contractual job. MR.

HODDER: We are waiting for hi 0 MR.CALLAN: The Minister of Fishi (Mr. Morgan) gave Jim Peddle a job last Spring,. Ani nothing wrong with that.NOthlflY wrong with that. 2 6

May 25,1982 Tape No. 575 ah-2 MR. CALLAN: Anyw'. I do not even want to talk about it. I do not thihk there is anything wrong with it. The former member for Gander , Harold Collins, was paid for the blood that he shed for the PC party as well and so it goes. But anyway, getting back to Arnold's Cove the vote for the Liberal candidate and the PC candidate in the general election increased by thirty-two votes for Doth, so there was no real change in Arnold's Cove. There was no real change. MR. SIMMS: What about the district of Bellevue? MR. WEARY: What about the croaking bullfroq? MR.

CALLAN: Well, now, the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth (Mr. Simms) talks about the district of Bellevue but perhaps what I should do - if you want a chuckle I can tell you about the town of Bellevue. By the way S, 4 12 U 7

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 576 SD-i MR. CALLAN: you know, a lot of people think and they say, 'You are going back to Bellevue'. I do not live in i3ellevue, I live in Norman's Cove which is where the infamous meeting,the one that appeared on the Journal, that is where that one was held. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh MR. CALLAN: But in Bellevue, Mr. Speaker, 4 for an obvious reason or for several obvious reasons but one more obvious than others which I dare not mention because - MR. STAGG: Why not? MR. CALLAN: Well, T will tell you outside. But anyway, I obtained in the town of Bellevue four votes - four. - MR.

STAGG: You got what? MR. SIMMS: You took Bellevue. MR. CALLAN: No, I had thirty-five votes in Bellevue. Rellevue is traditionally Tory like St. Johh's and Grand Falls and Corner Brook, anywhere. it is traditionally Tory for the reasons that people are Tory. Because everybody knows that the Tory philosophy, Mr. Speaker, the Tory philosophy is: 'I have everything, you have nothing and that is the way it should be'. Now that is Tory philosophy and it has been for years; I have everything, you have nothing and that is the way it should be. Now that is why St.

John's which has everything, which has the paved roads ant the stadia and the swimming pools and the water and sewer, that is why St. John's and Gander and brand Falls and Corner Brook, the places that have everythinu, nfl that is why these people vote Tory, because it is right in line, it is right in line, Mr. Speaker, with Tory philosophy; I have everything, you have nothing and that is the way it shun I H La. Mt.ttAfRt): Toll its whit 111Ii)ci1ecl in liollovklo. 12 b 8

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 576 SD - 2 MR. CALLAN: I obtained four votes on the ballot paper. There were four ballots that were counted for me in the town oil Bellevue. MR. CALLAN: a The minister is not dense. in the town. MR. NEARY: (flI1:il) Are you sure you got four? I do not know - yes, I am sure Yes I got four votes in Bellevue, How many were (inaudible)? Do not overestimate him now. I would not be sure MR. CALLAN: But anyway, Mr. Speaker, I will not be sidetracked, I have some other important things I wanted to say about the district of Bellevue. Mr. Speaker, if the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth (Mr.

Simms) , if I can change the subject now, if the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth - AN HON. MEMBER. He is gone now. MR. BAIRD: Why are you talking to him all the time? MR. CALLAN: Well, Mr. Speaker, if I may make a comment about the member for Grand Falls (Mr. Siinms) I would like to say this, I meant to say it earlier, that I really appreciated what he had to say last week. I thought his speech was excellent and I am certain and I am quite confident that the member who is now a minister, • who represents Grand Falls will be 1 29

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 577 NJ - 1 MR. W. CALLAN: around in this House of Assembly, I am certain of that, for other reasons besides the one that I just gave, that Grand Falls has everything and therefore they are going to conLnue to vote Tory. But if the member who presently represents I Grand Falls (Mr. L. Simms), if he wants to run in the next ten elections I am sure he will get elected on his own personality and his personal ability alone. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. CALLAN: Since the Premier just came back into the Assembly, Mr.

Speaker, I wanted to just respond to a quirk or a quip that the Premier made when he was talking about me and how I lost some votes in Bellevue, you know, I kept going down in the polls. It is interesting to notice for those who have not noticed, Mr. Speaker, that the Premier also went down in his district. He did not have the vote this time that he had in 1979 for example, he went down by 164 votes. So - PREMIER PECKFORD: You saiu approximately. MR. CALLAN: Well, you know, if you want to taD. about percentages that is fine. I might also mention, Mr.

Speaker, for the benefit of the people like the member for Burin - Placentia West (Mr. G. Tohin) for example,who won - what? less than 300 vote. MW. WALSH: (Inaudible). MR. CALLAN: It is less than 300, I locke during lunch actually. I want to say for the benerit of tH member for Burin - Placentia West who won by a small macole, do not let it worry van because the Premier has ne 4 always been into the hiqh vote bracket either.}le won one c: by a measly 135 vote majority. So, there is room for you to 1210

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 577 MJ - 2 MR. W. CALLAN: go up just as the Premier went up and then, of course, in the last one went down a bit, we go up and down depending on the issues, depending on our opponents and depending on a number of factors. SOME HON._MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. CALLAN: If I rniqht, Mr. Speaker, obviously threatening letters, threatening letters like the one the Premier sent out in the district of Bellevue during last Spring's by-election, you know, that does not necessarily turn on people, it frightens some people and makes them vote in ways that they probably would not.

I do not know how much time I have left, Mr. Speaker. MR. TUL<: Lots of time, boy. AN HON. MEMBER: You have plenty of time. MR. CALLAN: Let me get back to a subject that I raised during the Oral Question Period, Mr. Speaker, a question that I put to I' . 12

May 25, 1982 'rape 578 SC - 1 MR. CALLAN: the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth (Mr. Sims) regarding the issuance of big game licences. Mr. Speaker, on December 29th, 1981, a few days after Christmas, I put out a press release in which I stated - and at that time, Mr. Speaker, you would pick up the Clarenville Packet- everyweek you picked it up, you know, they 4 were talking about the tremendous amount of poachin that was going on, especially in the Clarenville - Random Island area.

The member for that districts, I have not seen him, I do not think, since opening day; I do not know where he has been, perhaps he is out hunting down some poachers. I hope ho is, because I disdain poachers and poaching. I do not even like poached eggs. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Here, here MR. CALLAN: Mr. Speaker, in that press release of December 29th, 1981, I said, "Chief among the reasons for the increase in poaching is the P.C. Government licencing system." I still stick by that, even though the minister today said that other provinces are following our lead.

You know, it is so easy to say that unless you can produce facts or figures or hooks or whatever to prove it. But I still believe that chief among the reasons for poaching in this Province is the P.C. Government's licencing system, number one, That is the chief one, but there are others. You know, obviously, the lack of employment in this Province, where people have nothing to do only sit around in beer taverns and once they get drunk or half drunk they go out and have - or the next day, you know, they go out and poach a moose, because they have nothing better to do, they have no work; and, 122

May 25, 1982 Tape 578 EC - 2 MR. CALLAN: Mr. Speaker, an insufficient number of game wardens is - AN lION. MEMBER: And they need the meat. MR. CALLAN: Yes, they need the meat, obviously, to feed their families if they have no employment. But idle time on their hands is another obvious reason. And, of course, Mr. Speaker, another one that I mentioned in this press release was the lack, the total lack or the total absence of any public education programme at all. Some people need to be educated, Mr. Speaker. I mean, if we can put on - I do not know how much money the Minister of Transportation (Mr.

Dawe) spent in the last eight months or six months in trying to convince us all that, you know, it is beneficial, it saves lives and everything else, to wear seat belts, getting people ready for July 1st. I do not know how much money that minister spent, but, Mr. Speaker, I think it was money well-spent, I agree with that. But at the same time, I would like to suggest to the minister that a public education programme regarding poaching, you know, and something that will point out to people lb 12 i 3

May 25, 1982 Tape 579 P1K - 1 MR. CALLAN: who do not really know that moose and rabbits are not native to this Province, they were brought in here. They were brouqht in here, you know, and for careless people and non-caring and uneducated in this sense that , you know, their conscience has not been touched, so as to speak- AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) MR. CALLAN: Exactly, exactly, which is what I also said in that press release. But, Mr. Speaker, that was on December 29 I put out that press release.

I noticed on that same weekend, I noticed on that same weekenc and obviously I will not find it now, but Inoticed -- yes, here it is -I noticed in the weekend paper of January 2, about three or five days later, after I put out that press release, I noticed that Ray Simmons in his column on wildlife and so on, on Saturday January 2, here is what he says 'After doing such a fine job on moose management" - I do not know if the minister read this, perhaps he has the clipping in his files somewhere - 'After doing such a fine job on moose management for so many years, it now appears that what happened was mainly because of the moose, and not man.

Now moose and man are combining to make a mess of things as the numbers of animals decline annually." Now, then here it what he says-this is Ray Simmons, Outdoors With RalSimmons, now then he says, "This year the number of hunting licences was docreased' That was last year, and we weretold, I thir- today, that there is going to he a decrease again this year.

"This year, he said, the number of hunting licences will decrease , which, from where I sit-md I agree with hin,by th 4 way,or he agrees with what I said a few days earlier, it d-c not matter - "which, from where I sit, just made more animals available to the poachers by decreasing the number of 12

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 579 PK-2 MR. CALLAN: licences." lie said, "I would have sold more licences and used the licence money to beef up the warden force, which is what I was saying. We should have more game wardens to catch more poachers. You know, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. AN ifON. MEMBER: Shame MR. CALLAN: I mean, the minister talks about punishing these people. But who are you punishing? And what are you doing with them?

You know, you send them up to the Salmonier Line to the prison camp for a month or a couple of months and, meanwhile, the goverhment is left holding the bag, to feed their families while they are up there. So an ounce of prevention I believe is worth a pound of cure. MR. STAGG: (Inaudible). MR. CALLAN: So stop the poaching rather than punishing the poachers - The Stag At Eve Had Drunk His Fill, from Stephenville. So he says, 1 would have sold more licences and used the licence money to beef up the warden force and overall protection services. Hunters", 1' 12 i5

May 25, 1982 Tape 580 EC - 1 MR. CALLAN: ie says, are never as efficient as poachers and so we would have reduced the kill ratio, increased the number of convictions and provided more hunting opportunities. It is not important that everybody gets a moose,' he says, it is important that more people get a chance." Good points raised by Ray Simmons. "Meanwhile," he says, "moose in remote areas continue to overbrowse," and he says, "Special licences outside the draw to tourists and wealthy locals who will pay a premium price would seem to be a solution to this problem." Mr.

Speaker, Ray Simmons in his column Outdoors talks about other wilidlife, by the way, in this particular article. It was one of Ray Simmons' more interesting articles,even though most of them are interesting and educational, I believe, Mr. Speaker. Well, Mr. Speaker, I talked about the Markland Cottage Hospital. I hope that when the budget comes down on Thursday that there will be funding there for the clinic. The Come By Chance hospital has not been doinq badly the last several years. They have good facilities down there.

So the Come By Chance hospital, I think - you know, I do not think there is any danger that it will be phased out. That was something that was raised last Spring during the by-election. I think some government official raised it so that it would give the Premier an opportunity to go out and squelch it. You know, that sort of thing sometimes happens with smart politicians and crafty people and manipulators, which, of course, all of these adjectives suit the Premier to a 'T. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh If MR. CALILAN: Mr. Spcaksr, , in an earier speech I mentioned that there are approximately 2 1 6

May 25, 1982 Tape 580 EC - 2 MR. CALLAN: forty-five to fifty miles of dirt road left in the district of Bellevue. I listened to the member for St. Mary's - The Capes (Mr. Hearn) . He made an excellent speech, as well, by the way. And I made a remark to the member for Placentia (Mr. Patterson) up behind the curtain,that he seems like a fine fellow and a good speakor and we both agreed on that. I trust, Mr. Speaker, that when the budget comes down in a couple of days that there will be funding provided for some pavement for the district of Bellevue. As I have said on other occasions, Mr. Speaker, I believe MR.

CALLAN: Do we get a one minute warning or just a five? I am not sure. I have said, Mr. Speaker, that what I think should be done is the way they do it in Ottawa, that if there is $500,000, if there is half a million dollars that can be allocated for Bellevue, that 12i7

May 25, 1982 Tape 581 JC - 1 MR. CALLAN: I, as the member, should determine whether it goes on the Markiand Road or the Ilillview Road or the South West Arm Road or between Thornlea and Chance Cove and Bellevue, but such democracy does not exist here unfortunately. Of course, if that were the case, Mr. Speaker, the onus would be on me. If I decided the money was going to go down in Hillview, then I have to answer to the people in Markland who would be saying,"well, you got one half million dollars for your district and you spent it down there. Why did you not spend some of it here?

I would be satisfied to live with that, Mr. Speaker. I would be satisfied to live with that. But anyway, since it does not happen that way, I hope that when the budget does come down and one half a million dollars or a million - a half a million will pave - what? - about four miles of road now a days, I suppose, perhaps less than that. Loss than four miles a half a million. AN HON. MEMBER: Upgrade and pave them? MR. CALLAN: No, the roads I am talking about are upgraded already. AN HON. MEMBER: Most of them are upgraded. MR. CALLAN: You will get about four miles. That is about what we got last year, anyway.

I hope that there is a million dollars for the district of Bellevue for roads. I would welcome the opportunity to decide where it should he spent. If I were qiven the choice I think I would go along with reads that the design work has already been done for rather than some- thing that has to be done in a hurry, for which there was no design work. Which is another example, Mr. Speaker, and I am serry thst the man is net here, but F am sure 12

May 25, 2983 Tape 581 JC-2 MR. CALLAN: - that when the Auditor General made that remark in his report, that I say to the newly elected members on the other side, especially the one who have rural districts1 keep an eye on the Minister of Fisheries, keep your eye on him, If there is any way that he can get an extra half a million dollars for his district, he is going to get it.because it has happened in the past. I would say thaf if the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Dawe) or the Premier or whoeveL were to table a list of the roads that were done in the district of Bonavista South over the last ten years 12 H

May 25, 1982 Tape 582 TM - 1 MR. CALLAN: and also show when design work was done, you will discover the design work was done after the road was identified. MR. SPEAKER (AYLWARD): Order please: MR. CALLAN. Mr. Speaker, on that I conclude my few remarks. Thank-you. SOME HON. MEMBERS. Here, here. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's Center. DR. McNICHOLAS: Mr. Speaker, the first duty I have is to congratulate the Speaker on his election. I would like to congratulate you also. Sir on your election as Deputy-peaker.

For myself, I would like to thank all hon. members, both on this side and on the other side of the House, for electing me as' Deputy-Chairman of Coi'mittees. I know only full well that I am going to make some mistakes but the ones I make will be mistakes of judgement and I can assure you there will not be any question of bias on my part. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Here, here DR. McNICHOLAS: I would like to congratulate, also, all hon. members both new and old. I would like to congratulate my friend, the hon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) .

I might be permitted, in conveying my congratulations, to mention to the hon. Leader of the Opposition that people in glass houses do not throw stones. If I read correctly in the press over the last week or so, there seemed to be a fair amount of critisism of the hon. the Premier's salary of forty thousand a year. I do not know if all members of this hon. House are aware that the Leader of the Opposition is paid almost three quaters of that salary. And while the lob of Leader of the Opposition is a very responsible and onerous one, and one which I think 12211

May 25, 1982 Tape 582 TM - 2 DR. McNICHOLAS: well intitles him to that salary, I do not think it comes near the awesome responsibilities that the Leader of this Province has. Sometimes I think we all have our priorities wrong. I know that in my own profession some of the new doctors, ones who have only just interned, if you like, who are still wet behind the ears, can go out and in their first year of practice they can make $100,000. Now, I am not questioning the salaries or incomes of doctors, far be it for me to do that, but I think sometimes we get our priorities wrong.

The general public have an idea that those in politics are not doing or working at a very hard job. From my little experience of members on both sides of the House, I know that to be absolutely incorrect. I would like to congratulate the hon. the Premier on a fantastic win. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Here, here DR. McNICHOLAS: I am sure if we had had another week to go, some of the hon. members on the other side would not be with us at the present time. I think, Mr. Speaker, it is very sad that, after this tremendous vote of confidence by the people of Newfoundland, the federal 122

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 583 RA - 1 DR. MCNICHOLAS: Minister of Justice (Mr.Chretien) he cnek in here last week - or do you call it snuck in? - but anyway he came in here last week, not to see the Premier of this Province, not to see any respons- ible member of government at all, he came here to see the defeated rrnjer for the district of Bonavista North(Mr.Stirlinq) and other members of the Opposition Party. I think, Mr. Speaker, that was an awful insult to the people of New- foundland.

I think it was an awful insult to the highest court in Newfoundland, when he brought a message that he was by-passing that court and presenting a different story to the Supreme Court of Canada, instead of first going through our own Supreme Court here, which is the traditional way of resolvb'g constitutional pro- lems. I think we were insulted by a fed- eral govorment that really has lost all credinility in Canada. We are in the worst depression since the thirties.

I kno" that the rest of the Western World is going through a depression, but any of us who read the financial papers will realize that Canada is worse off than any of the other industrial nations such as the U.S. or Europe or Japan. And I feel, Mr. Speaker, if we had a federal election tomorrow morning the result would be the same as we had a few weeks ago here in Newfoundland. And, Mr. Speaker, - these are the people who want to take over the running of our offshore, take over control. This is part of tneir great scfleme of oil self-sufficiencey in 1090.

The federal government had three orongs to their National Energy Proqramrne. And that pro- granime, as we all know now, is in a shambles. 1222

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 583 RA - 2 DR. MCNICHOLAS: We had, first of alithe Alsands Programme. The federal government dickered, and dithered with the private oil companies until the oil companies thraW uo their hands and said " We want none of your programme, because you want to grab too much". The other pronq that the federal government had 1223

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 584 MLeP - 1 DR. P. MCNICUOLAS was the Alaskan Highway natural gas pipeline. What happened there? That is a pipeline qoinq to no- where, an empty pipeline that cot the Canadian tax payers millions and millions of dollars. Mr. Speaker, at long last it looks as if we may be getting someway along the road to a corridor for our own hydro-electric power.

I am sure in my mind that the federal courts will uphold the decision of our own Newfoundland court, and I pray when that comes, that we can get down to discussions with the Quebec Government not to build a new transmission line across Quebec and other places at an enormous expense but to come to an acjreoment, a reasonable agreement, that instead of the Quebec Government getting a profit of 500 million dollars per year and we getting $10 million, that we can come to an acceptable arrangement that will give us a fair deal and give the Quebec Government a fair deal and allow us to transmit the power from the Lower Churchill along the route that is already estabi i.shed.

T wont to just soy one brief word about the fish stocks. I can not end to be an expert on the fishing industry, but it seems ludicrus to me that when our fish olants and our fish workers are out of work, that we are having this love affair with the communists. It seems to me that with the federal government, to get an extra share of fishing off our coast, you have to be communist, you have to be a Russian or a Pole, or a Cuhan. But our 122

May 25, 1982 Tape 585 Ps - 1 DR. P. McNICHOLAS: own fishermen canhot get it. What we want is not complete control, what we want is a meaningful say in the fisheries off our own coast. Mr. Speaker, before I finish I want to say a few words about my own district of St. John's Centre. I want to pledge to the voters there that I will look after their interests to the best of my ability. I want to thank them very sincerely for electing me again as their member. I think in my maiden speech in this house I mentioned that we had two main problems in St.

John's Centre and, unfortunately, we still have these two main problems. One is unemployment. Unemployment is just frightful in St. John's Centre, Mr. Speaker. I cannot blame the federal government completely for that, I would be dishonest and unfair if I said that. I certainly cannot blame our own provincial government. There are, however, transfer payments that are due to us that would help. There are DREE programmes that, if they were implemented would help. But there is a general air of despondency throughout St. John's Centre.

I am looking forward to the offshore oil programme being implemented which will be a tremendous boost, both directly and indirectly, to the people in my district. The last or the second problem that we have in the district, and one that I get more calls about than anything else is from the people who cannot afford to pay the going rate for housing. That is really a tremendous problem, to get enough subsidized rental units for the people in St. John's. I bombard the Newfoundland and Labrador Housing all the time about getting facilities and help for my constituents. 4 1225

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 586 lB-i DR. MCNICHOLAS: While they do the best they canthey come back and tell me that there are 600 and 700 and sometimes 800 people on the waiting list. I was interested-here before the last election, the hon. the Minister of Development (Mr. Windsor) tabled a document that showed we were havinq 148 new subsidized units in the St. John's area. I think it was dated St. Patrick's Day, that is why I remember the day. But I would like to say to the Minister of Development I would like to e him get together again with Mr. Rompkey, the hon. Mr.

Rompkey or whoever deals with the federal side, and they provide 75 per cent of the cost of these units, because the 148 units here in St. John's will only be a small drop in the bucket. We want at least 500 to break that impasse. Mr. Speaker, I am looking forward to the next four years or five years. I am very grateful for the opportunity to take part. Thank you very much. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear MR. SPEAKER (AYLWARD) : The hon. member for Stephenville. MR. STAGO: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The issue today is whether or not we support the amendment put by the member for Terra Nova (Mr.

Lush) which basically would negate all of the matters put forward in the Speech from the Throne read in the House of Assembly some time ago. Well ,let me say from the beginning, Mr. Speaker, that I am unconvinced by the arguments put forward by the member for Terra Nova, that his motion should not carry 1226

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 587 lB-i MR. STAGG: and I will be voting against it at the appropriate time. Now, the traditional means of approaching the Address in Reply or an amendment thereto is that a person says something about his district, and that gives a person an opportunity to lead members of the House of Assembly and anyone else who might be interested, on a sort of a geographical tour and an environmental and economical tour of his district. I would like to take a few minutes to do that, Mr. Speaker. I represent the district of Stephenville which is one of the more urban districts in Newfoundland. MR.

HODDER: Can you go for half an hour on it? MR. STAGG Can I go for half an hour? The hon. opposition House Leader (Mr. HOdder) - I do not know if he is honourable or not but I will put it there with a small 'h - wants me to go for half an hour because he does not have any speakers lined up on his side of the House. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, Hear. MR. STAGG: Yes, I can go for half an hour. As a matter of fact,J can go until six o'clock if hon. members want me to. I want to speak about my district, Mr. Speaker. And the highlight of this year will be the Stephenville festival which is coming up in July of this year.

I have already distributed to ton, members the brochure which has been put out by the - committee. MR. HODDER: How about the free tickets? MR. STAGG: There will be no free tickets. I will say that to the hon. member. The Auditor General need not fret - if the Auditor General decided to come over, however, I would buy him a ticket. And I would also say this to hon. members opposite and also hon. members here, 1227

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 587 113-2 MR. STAGG: any hon. member who attends these marvellous theatrical functions will get tickets bought by the member for the district. So I will put that in writing if necessarv 122

May 25, 1982 Tape 588 MLeP -1 4 MR. F. STAGG: But if you want to come over to Stophenville in July of this year, beginning on the 19th of July and going on until August the first, you can see Jesus Christ Superstar. This is not me of course, I am not in that one. Of course it is going to be a very entertaining musical. A comedy by Oscar Wilde, called, The Improtance Of Being Earnest. The Newfoundland premiere, on the World Premiere of a new musical, written by Barry Staqq, MR. TULK: Who? MR. STAGG: Mr. Speaker, Barry Stagg.

I have a brother Barry Staqg, but it is not the Barry Stagg who is my brother who has written this musical, it is written by a gentleman from Montreal MR. CALLAN: Any relation at all? MR. STAGG: No relation though. I think we iminate Devon, originally hack in antiquity, some time in the eighteenth century or so, I think. There maybe some connection because there are not too many Stagg's around. Anyway, this musical is called "Sometimes We Die' and it concerns the Newfoundland seal hunt. It is a tribute to the sealers and the things that they go through and went through, and it is set at the turn of the century.

I have heard some of the songs. They are excellent It would be an evening of great enjoyment for hon. members. Three other productions: The Newfoundland Herald; which is a comedy review, spoof ing the Newfoundland Herald; A play called Tennessee and Me, about the works of Tennessee Williams, and a p]ay called The Children's Crusade, which will have the local theatre group, children's version, doing the work on it. So I submit to hon. gentlemen, if you are planning to tour around Newfoundland this summer - MR. SIMMS: How about the ladies? MR. STAGG: lion.

Gentlemen and ladies too, of course, it would be a delightful stop. It is a 1229

May 25, 1982 Tape 588 MLeP - 2 MR. STAGG: non-partisan affair, and I welcome hon. members opposite as much as I we'come hon members on this side of the House. It should indeed be a qreat function. Of course in Stephenville we also have the Abitibi - Price, Pulp and Paper Mill, which is the successor to the Linerboard mill. A lot of noorlo still Cal I it 'I 2311

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 589 lB-i MR. STAGG: Linerboardmji1 but it is not a linerboard mill, it is in the business of manufacturing the finest paper in the world. The word back from the press rooms of the world, the great newspapers of the world, is that the paper made at Stephenville is, if not the best, amone the best made in the world. MR. NEARY: When the Liberals build a mill 'boy' they build a good one. S MR. STAGG: Of course, hon. members opposite caterwaul and say that you can thank the federal government for it and so on. Well , I will just demure on that.

It was at best a joint effort between the federal and the provincial governments. And,by far, the iion share of the accolades for the resurrection of that institution and the construction of the Labrador Linerboard and its perseverance through years or difficulty go to the provincial government and do not anybody forget that. MR. NEARY: Who built it? MR. STAGG: The mill, by the way, Mr. Speaker - I get a bit of prompting - the mill was built by John Crosbie and Frank Moores from 1971 until 1973. It was opened in 1973. It was a shell when we took over the government in January of 1972. I know, I lived through it.

So it was built - make no mistake about it - it was built by this government, by this - MR. NEARY: It was a Liberal concept. MR. STAGG: Yes it was a Liberal concept all riqht. It was a grand imperial liberal cenceot, yes. MR. NEARY: Because of the loss, that, of the United States base concept. MR. STACG: I could go on for days, Mr. Speaker, about the grand Liberal concepts that * Fell aborning and died aborning in Stephenville. Be have been the recipients of a great deal of bad publicity, and much of it extrapolated to the people of Stephenville and to the people of the area ,to some way say that they are 12 3 -I

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 589 IB-2 MR. STAGG: responsible for the failures. The failures in the Stephenville area have been, by far, the result of government inattention. We also have in Step! x.iJc:, Mr. Speaker, the Bay St. George Community Collew. * MR. NEARY: I hear that the government iE to charge tuition fees out there now in the colleqe. MR. STAGG: Going to start charging tuLtiun fees. MR._NEARY: Too much Too much MR. STAGG: Well ,suroly there are tuili.on fees. There have always been fees at the Bay St. George Community College, Mr. Speaker.

They have been most reasonable and they have been availed of by thousands of people. It is an excellent institution. It is a landmark institution. As a matter of fact ,ipproximately two weeks ago I officiated at the opening of the main campus of the Bay St. George Community College, building 360, which was once owned by Mr. Doyle and his people, the Javelin group,and is now the subject of a constant serial coming down from a * 12 32

May 25, 1982 Tape No. 590 Ps - 1 MR. STAGG: courtroom either somewhere in Ottawa or Quebec. MR. HODDER: What courses do they charge for now? MR._STAGG: Pardon: MR. HODDER: I was just wondering how much they were charging for courses. MR._STAGG: Well, there are fees for a number of courses. MR. HODDER: But, these are non-credit courses right? MR.5TAGG: Certainly, yes. Non- credit courses. MR._WARREN: There what? MR. HODDER: Non-credit courses. MR. STAGG: And, of course, the Bay St. George Community College is a joint project of Canada Manpower and the Provincial Government and, generally speaking, it works well.

Now, the institution, is a landmark institution, Mr. Speaker. It is one that people in other districts, who are looking for increased emphasis in education in their districts, might well pattern themselves after. It is something that is a harbinger of things to come, both in Newfoundland and in other parts of the country. We also have in Stephenville, of course, an International Airport which has been the subject of some considerable discussion over a period of years. Let there be no mistake about it, Mr. Speaker - MR. NEARY: Thanks to a good Transportation Minister U MR. STAGG: Mr.

Speaker, let there be no mistake about it, we have a superior facility in Stephenville. It is on a par with the - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Here, here MR. STAGG: - it is on a par with the Goose Bay Airport. As far as the major components of 12 3

May 25, 1982 Tape 590 PS - 2 MR. STAGG: airports are concerned, it is an airport that really has very few equals in the- MR. NEARY: Are you going to give (inaudible) a little praise or not? MR. STAGG: I will deal with Labatts do not worry. Hon. :iembers opposite hope That they can interject and maybe get me ofF the topTh, but I have some notes made. MR. TULK: We are trying to get you going. MR. STAGG: You are trying to get me going? I will get to you fellows eventually. Although Mr. Speaker, I must say that these days you pretty well have to talk over the heads of the Opposition, because they are so few of bcm.

They are leading a charmed life. The press will not let anybody critize them. Because they are so few in irnmbe