British Columbia Hansard — 11 May 2021, p.m., Issue 67 (42nd Parliament, 2nd Session)

20210511pm-Hansard-n67

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Second Session, 42nd Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES (HANSARD) Tuesday, May 11, 2021 Afternoon Sitting Issue No. 67 THE HONOURABLE RAJ CHOUHAN, SPEAKER ISSN 1499-2175

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Janet Austin, OBC Second Session, 42nd Parliament SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Raj Chouhan EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................... Hon. John Horgan Minister of Advanced Education and Skills Training...........................................................................................................Hon.

Anne Kang Minister of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries......................................................................................................................Hon. Lana Popham Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Housing .............................................................................................Hon. David Eby, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ....................................................................................................................Hon.

Mitzi Dean Minister of State for Child Care...................................................................................................................................... Hon. Katrina Chen Minister of Citizens’ Services.....................................................................................................................................................Hon. Lisa Beare Minister of Education .................................................................................................................................................. Hon.

Jennifer Whiteside Minister of Energy, Mines and Low Carbon Innovation ........................................................................................Hon. Bruce Ralston, QC Minister of Environment and Climate Change Strategy............................................................................................. Hon. George Heyman Minister of Finance .......................................................................................................................................................... Hon.

Selina Robinson Minister of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development ................................................ Hon. Katrine Conroy Minister of State for Lands and Natural Resource Operations................................................................................. Hon. Nathan Cullen Minister of Health and Minister Responsible for Francophone Affairs.............................................................................Hon.

Adrian Dix Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation .......................................................................................... Hon. Murray Rankin, QC Minister of Jobs, Economic Recovery and Innovation....................................................................................................... Hon. Ravi Kahlon Minister of State for Trade...............................................................................................................................................Hon.

George Chow Minister of Labour ...................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Harry Bains Minister of Mental Health and Addictions.............................................................................................................. Hon. Sheila Malcolmson Minister of Municipal Affairs ............................................................................................................................................. Hon.

Josie Osborne Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General ........................................................................................................... Hon. Mike Farnworth Minister of Social Development and Poverty Reduction........................................................................................... Hon. Nicholas Simons Minister of Tourism, Arts, Culture and Sport .................................................................................................................. Hon.

Melanie Mark Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure................................................................................................................... Hon. Rob Fleming Minister of State for Infrastructure ................................................................................................................................... Hon.

Bowinn Ma LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Official Opposition...................................................................................................................................................Shirley Bond Leader of the Third Party .......................................................................................................................................................... Sonia Furstenau Deputy Speaker..........................................................................................................................................................

Spencer Chandra Herbert Assistant Deputy Speaker..............................................................................................................................................................Norm Letnick Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole .......................................................................................................................... Ronna-Rae Leonard Clerk of the Legislative Assembly ...........................................................................................................................................

Kate Ryan-Lloyd Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel.............................................................................................................................. Seunghee Suzie Seo Clerk Assistant, Parliamentary Services........................................................................................................................... Artour Sogomonian Clerk of Committees.......................................................................................................................................................................

Jennifer Arril Clerk Assistant, Committees and Interparliamentary Relations ..............................................................................................Susan Sourial Senior Research Analyst ................................................................................................................................................................... Karan Riarh Acting Sergeant-at-Arms..................................................................................................................................................................Greg Nelson

ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Alexis, Pam (BC NDP) ............................................................Abbotsford-Mission Anderson, Brittny (BC NDP) .........................................................Nelson-Creston Ashton, Dan (BC Liberal Party) ............................................................... Penticton Babchuk, Michele (BC NDP)...............................................................North Island Bailey, Brenda (BC NDP).................................................. Vancouver–False Creek Bains, Hon. Harry (BC NDP).........................................................

Surrey-Newton Banman, Bruce (BC Liberal Party) ............................................ Abbotsford South Beare, Hon. Lisa (BC NDP) .......................................

Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Begg, Garry (BC NDP).................................................................Surrey-Guildford Bernier, Mike (BC Liberal Party) ...............................................Peace River South Bond, Shirley (BC Liberal Party).................................Prince George–Valemount Brar, Jagrup (BC NDP) ................................................................Surrey-Fleetwood Cadieux, Stephanie (BC Liberal Party) .............................................

Surrey South Chandra Herbert, Spencer (BC NDP).................................Vancouver–West End Chant, Susie (BC NDP) ..............................................North Vancouver–Seymour Chen, Hon. Katrina (BC NDP) ............................................... Burnaby-Lougheed Chouhan, Hon. Raj (BC NDP).................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Chow, Hon. George (BC NDP) ..........................................Vancouver-Fraserview Clovechok, Doug (BC Liberal Party)........................Columbia River–Revelstoke Conroy, Hon.

Katrine (BC NDP) ....................................................Kootenay West Coulter, Dan (BC NDP) .......................................................................... Chilliwack Cullen, Hon. Nathan (BC NDP) ................................................................... Stikine Davies, Dan (BC Liberal Party)................................................. Peace River North de Jong, Michael, QC (BC Liberal Party)....................................Abbotsford West Dean, Hon. Mitzi (BC NDP) ...............................................

Esquimalt-Metchosin D’Eith, Bob (BC NDP) .........................................................Maple Ridge–Mission Dix, Hon. Adrian (BC NDP) ................................................ Vancouver-Kingsway Doerkson, Lorne (BC Liberal Party) ........................................Cariboo-Chilcotin Donnelly, Fin (BC NDP) .......................................... Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Dykeman, Megan (BC NDP)............................................................... Langley East Eby, Hon. David, QC (BC NDP).......................................

Vancouver–Point Grey Elmore, Mable (BC NDP) ..................................................Vancouver-Kensington Farnworth, Hon. Mike (BC NDP) .................................................Port Coquitlam Fleming, Hon. Rob (BC NDP) ...............................................

Victoria–Swan Lake Furstenau, Sonia (BC Green Party) .............................................Cowichan Valley Glumac, Rick (BC NDP) ..................................................Port Moody–Coquitlam Greene, Kelly (BC NDP) ........................................................Richmond-Steveston Halford, Trevor (BC Liberal Party) .........................................Surrey–White Rock Heyman, Hon. George (BC NDP) .........................................Vancouver-Fairview Horgan, Hon. John (BC NDP) ......................................... Langford–Juan de Fuca Kahlon, Hon.

Ravi (BC NDP) .............................................................. Delta North Kang, Hon. Anne (BC NDP) .................................................. Burnaby–Deer Lake Kirkpatrick, Karin (BC Liberal Party) ........................West Vancouver–Capilano Kyllo, Greg (BC Liberal Party)....................................................................Shuswap Lee, Michael (BC Liberal Party) ..............................................Vancouver-Langara Leonard, Ronna-Rae (BC NDP)...............................................

Courtenay-Comox Letnick, Norm (BC Liberal Party) .................................. Kelowna–Lake Country Lore, Grace (BC NDP)........................................................... Victoria–Beacon Hill Ma, Hon. Bowinn (BC NDP).....................................North Vancouver–Lonsdale Malcolmson, Hon. Sheila (BC NDP)........................................................Nanaimo Mark, Hon. Melanie (BC NDP).................................Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Mercier, Andrew (BC NDP) ........................................................................

Langley Merrifield, Renee (BC Liberal Party)......................................... Kelowna-Mission Milobar, Peter (BC Liberal Party) .......................... Kamloops–North Thompson Morris, Mike (BC Liberal Party) ................................. Prince George–Mackenzie Oakes, Coralee (BC Liberal Party).................................................. Cariboo North Olsen, Adam (BC Green Party)............................ Saanich North and the Islands Osborne, Hon.

Josie (BC NDP)........................................Mid Island–Pacific Rim Paddon, Kelli (BC NDP) ................................................................Chilliwack-Kent Paton, Ian (BC Liberal Party) ............................................................... Delta South Popham, Hon. Lana (BC NDP)........................................................ Saanich South Ralston, Hon. Bruce, QC (BC NDP) .............................................Surrey-Whalley Rankin, Hon.

Murray, QC (BC NDP) .............................Oak Bay–Gordon Head Rice, Jennifer (BC NDP) ...................................................................... North Coast Robinson, Hon. Selina (BC NDP)...................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Ross, Ellis (BC Liberal Party)......................................................................... Skeena Routledge, Janet (BC NDP) .............................................................Burnaby North Routley, Doug (BC NDP)...........................................

Nanaimo–North Cowichan Russell, Roly (BC NDP).................................................... Boundary-Similkameen Rustad, John (BC Liberal Party)......................................................Nechako Lakes Sandhu, Harwinder (BC NDP) .................................................Vernon-Monashee Sharma, Niki (BC NDP)..........................................................Vancouver-Hastings Shypitka, Tom (BC Liberal Party) .................................................... Kootenay East Simons, Hon. Nicholas (BC NDP).........................

Powell River–Sunshine Coast Sims, Jinny (BC NDP) ................................................................. Surrey-Panorama Singh, Aman (BC NDP) .............................................Richmond-Queensborough Singh, Rachna (BC NDP)...................................................Surrey–Green Timbers Starchuk, Mike (BC NDP) ......................................................... Surrey-Cloverdale Stewart, Ben (BC Liberal Party) .......................................................

Kelowna West Stone, Todd (BC Liberal Party) ...............................Kamloops–South Thompson Sturdy, Jordan (BC Liberal Party) ............................. West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Tegart, Jackie (BC Liberal Party)....................................................... Fraser-Nicola Walker, Adam (BC NDP) ....................................................... Parksville-Qualicum Wat, Teresa (BC Liberal Party) ....................................... Richmond North Centre Whiteside, Hon. Jennifer (BC NDP) .........................................

New Westminster Wilkinson, Andrew, QC (BC Liberal Party)......................Vancouver-Quilchena Y ao, Henry (BC NDP) ..................................................... Richmond South Centre LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Mission................................................................................. Pam Alexis Abbotsford South...............................................................................Bruce Banman Abbotsford West......................................................................

Michael de Jong, QC Boundary-Similkameen........................................................................ Roly Russell Burnaby–Deer Lake....................................................................... Hon. Anne Kang Burnaby-Edmonds......................................................................Hon. Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Lougheed .................................................................... Hon. Katrina Chen Burnaby North .................................................................................

Janet Routledge Cariboo-Chilcotin ..........................................................................Lorne Doerkson Cariboo North.................................................................................... Coralee Oakes Chilliwack ...............................................................................................Dan Coulter Chilliwack-Kent .................................................................................... Kelli Paddon Columbia River–Revelstoke .........................................................

Doug Clovechok Coquitlam–Burke Mountain...............................................................Fin Donnelly Coquitlam-Maillardville ...................................................... Hon. Selina Robinson Courtenay-Comox................................................................... Ronna-Rae Leonard Cowichan Valley ............................................................................. Sonia Furstenau Delta North................................................................................... Hon.

Ravi Kahlon Delta South ..................................................................................................Ian Paton Esquimalt-Metchosin .................................................................... Hon. Mitzi Dean Fraser-Nicola .........................................................................................

Jackie Tegart Kamloops–North Thompson .............................................................Peter Milobar Kamloops–South Thompson..................................................................Todd Stone Kelowna–Lake Country .....................................................................Norm Letnick Kelowna-Mission ...........................................................................

Renee Merrifield Kelowna West ..........................................................................................Ben Stewart Kootenay East.......................................................................................Tom Shypitka Kootenay West........................................................................ Hon. Katrine Conroy Langford–Juan de Fuca .............................................................. Hon.

John Horgan Langley .............................................................................................Andrew Mercier Langley East....................................................................................Megan Dykeman Maple Ridge–Mission.............................................................................. Bob D’Eith Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows............................................................Hon. Lisa Beare Mid Island–Pacific Rim............................................................ Hon.

Josie Osborne Nanaimo.............................................................................Hon. Sheila Malcolmson Nanaimo–North Cowichan............................................................... Doug Routley Nechako Lakes........................................................................................ John Rustad Nelson-Creston ............................................................................. Brittny Anderson New Westminster.............................................................. Hon.

Jennifer Whiteside North Coast ........................................................................................... Jennifer Rice North Island................................................................................... Michele Babchuk North Vancouver–Lonsdale......................................................... Hon. Bowinn Ma North Vancouver–Seymour...................................................................Susie Chant Oak Bay–Gordon Head..................................................Hon.

Murray Rankin, QC Parksville-Qualicum........................................................................... Adam Walker Peace River North ................................................................................... Dan Davies Peace River South ................................................................................ Mike Bernier Penticton ................................................................................................. Dan Ashton Port Coquitlam...................................................................... Hon.

Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Coquitlam.......................................................................Rick Glumac Powell River–Sunshine Coast..............................................Hon. Nicholas Simons Prince George–Mackenzie....................................................................Mike Morris Prince George–Valemount ..................................................................

Shirley Bond Richmond North Centre..........................................................................Teresa Wat Richmond-Queensborough..................................................................Aman Singh Richmond South Centre .......................................................................... Henry Y ao Richmond-Steveston ............................................................................

Kelly Greene Saanich North and the Islands .............................................................Adam Olsen Saanich South .............................................................................Hon. Lana Popham Shuswap...................................................................................................... Greg Kyllo Skeena........................................................................................................... Ellis Ross Stikine........................................................................................ Hon.

Nathan Cullen Surrey-Cloverdale .............................................................................. Mike Starchuk Surrey-Fleetwood.....................................................................................Jagrup Brar Surrey–Green Timbers........................................................................Rachna Singh Surrey-Guildford......................................................................................Garry Begg Surrey-Newton ..............................................................................Hon.

Harry Bains Surrey-Panorama ...................................................................................... Jinny Sims Surrey South ................................................................................ Stephanie Cadieux Surrey-Whalley ................................................................. Hon. Bruce Ralston, QC Surrey–White Rock .......................................................................... Trevor Halford Vancouver-Fairview.............................................................. Hon.

George Heyman Vancouver–False Creek...................................................................... Brenda Bailey Vancouver-Fraserview...............................................................Hon. George Chow Vancouver-Hastings ..............................................................................Niki Sharma Vancouver-Kensington....................................................................... Mable Elmore Vancouver-Kingsway..................................................................... Hon.

Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara................................................................................ Michael Lee Vancouver–Mount Pleasant..................................................... Hon. Melanie Mark Vancouver–Point Grey ............................................................Hon. David Eby, QC Vancouver-Quilchena........................................................Andrew Wilkinson, QC Vancouver–West End .....................................................Spencer Chandra Herbert Vernon-Monashee .....................................................................

Harwinder Sandhu Victoria–Beacon Hill............................................................................... Grace Lore Victoria–Swan Lake.................................................................... Hon. Rob Fleming West Vancouver–Capilano...........................................................Karin Kirkpatrick West Vancouver–Sea to Sky................................................................Jordan Sturdy Party Standings: BC NDP 57; BC Liberal Party 28; BC Green Party 2

CONTENTS Tuesday, May 11, 2021 Afternoon Sitting Page Orders of the Day Second Reading of Bills .......................................................................................................................................................... 1705 Bill 5 — InBC Investment Corp. Act(continued) T. Shypitka B. Banman T. Halford Hon. R. Kahlon Bill 4 — Budget Measures Implementation Act, 2021 Hon. S. Robinson M. Bernier Hon. S. Robinson Bill 8 — Public Safety and Solicitor General Statutes Amendment Act, 2021 Hon. M. Farnworth M. Morris G. Kyllo M. Lee Hon. M.

Farnworth Committee of the Whole House............................................................................................................................................ 1725 Bill 2 — Public Interest Disclosure Amendment Act, 2021 Hon. D. Eby M. de Jong S. Furstenau Second Reading of Bills .......................................................................................................................................................... 1736 Bill 5 — InBC Investment Corp. Act(continued) Hon. R.

Kahlon Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room Committee of Supply .............................................................................................................................................................. 1736 Estimates: Ministry of Tourism, Arts, Culture and Sport(continued) T. Wat Hon. M. Mark S. Bond C. Oakes B. Stewart A. Olsen

TUESDAY , MAY 11, 2021 The House met at 1:31 p.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Orders of the Day Hon. M. Farnworth:In this chamber, I call continued second reading debate on Bill 5, InBC Investment Corp. Act. In Committee A, Douglas Fir Room, I call continued budget estimates debate on the Ministry of Tourism, Arts and Culture. When that finishes, I’ll call the budget estim- ates debate for Advanced Education and Skills Training. Second Reading of Bills BILL 5 — InBC INVESTMENT CORP . ACT (continued) T. Shypitka:I’m happy to continue the debate on Bill 5, InBC Investment Corp. Act. [N.

Letnick in the chair.] Where I left off last time was along the lines of trans- parency that this bill represents. When launching InBC, the NDP said the Crown corp. would have “the highest standards of transparency and accountability to the pub- lic. ” But when asked to provide copies of InBC’s business plan, the NDP’s response was “the business plan is confid- ential advice to cabinet. ” Doesn’t really spell out a lot of transparency and ac- countability to me. As a matter of fact, we’ve seen this dance before a few times with, most recently, the COVID response rollout, the vaccine rollout.

We also saw some similar lack of transparency with Site C and their assur- ance board and some of the geotechnical issues that have happened with that project and not coming forward to the public — which is publicly owned, by the way, just like this corporation would be publicly owned. It’s essentially a loan from the taxpayer. I question the transparency that this bill represents. Also, going into what anchoring talent and property means in this bill. When I hear of “anchor, ” I think of a lead weight.

Is it fair to say that these investments come with a list of conditions to entrepreneurs that are getting this investment? We don’t know. Once again, it speaks to the lack of transparency. We don’t know the conditions that anybody that’s involved in this corporation is going to have to go through. As I mentioned before, and as my time runs short…. I mentioned earlier that to encourage and grow a business and people’s skills, entrepreneurs and businesses just want government essentially out of the way. They want to clear the runway. The best thing that government can do right now….

And we need it now, not next spring when this bill will start to eventually roll out and then transcend for the next three years. We need this now. [1:35 p.m.] Government’s best course of action is to allow the play- ing field to be competitive, to allow the processes in which our businesses are starting up to be streamlined and effi- cient, and address our competitive disadvantages that we have right now in this province. That really comes down to regulation, legislation and policy. We really would encourage government to look at those. I highlighted several projects just in the mining sector alone.

I didn’t even go into LNG, where we’ve got several projects there that are on the shelf ready to go. Just in the mining sector alone — I speak to mining, because it is Mining Month, after all — we’ve got at least five, maybe a half-dozen projects on the table right now that have gone through EA, gone through all the processes, but they’re being stonewalled at the end to get over the fin- ish line, to get into production. Those projects represent about $2.2 billion in spend and about 3,000 high-paying, highly skilled jobs that we can have right now before this program would even roll out.

This is something we really need to focus on. I speak to mining, but there are also LNG projects, forestry projects. There are a lot of projects that are in the hopper right now ready to roll out that government seems to have abandoned. I don’t think it’s fair, because I think these folks, these businesses, have been there for us for a long time — some of them for 140 years, some of these industries, such as mining, agriculture, forestry and fish- ing. These have been the backbone of our economy. These are the people that have been affected mostly by COVID-19 and the pandemic.

We really need to look to those folks that have supported our economy for so long and not abandon them in coming up with this new scheme to invigorate skills training. Let’s be clear. We all want our people of British Columbia to be highly trained. But the entrepreneurs and the businesses, they’re the ones that do it best. They know what they’re doing. I don’t think gov- ernment knows better than what industry already knows. So why are we trying to reinvent the wheel with this bill?

I’m all for encouraging and creating conditions that will foster a thriving economy, but let’s get that immediate low- hanging fruit that we can address right now. It’s billions of dollars sitting waiting. Fiscal policy, education and creat- ing spaces, and improving processes are things that we can do right now and won’t cost anything other than political will. From there, we can see where we need to go.

If government wants to invest in anything, then I sug- gest it invest directly to those businesses and hard-working people that have already built this province, who are here right now wondering where their next mortgage payment will be coming from. To those that are watching a family businesses right now — I know many that have been around for decades — go up in flames: we can do better. 1705

We need to put trust back into the people of B.C. who have built this great place. Government need not manufacture something that is already here. With that, there are a lot of unanswered questions on a half-billion dollar ask of taxpayer money, and I will not be in support of this bill. It’ll obviously pass with a majority government and seeing what I’ve heard from the other side, so we’ll see what happens at committee stage. We’ll be asking those hard questions, but I will not be supporting this bill. B. Banman:It is indeed an honour to share my thoughts and my views with regards to Bill 5.

At first, I would like to commend the idea behind it, the concept behind it. I think that it is timely and worthwhile to encourage investment. However, having said that, two things come to mind. [1:40 p.m.] While half a billion dollars sounds like an awful lot in the investment arena, it actually is not as much money as it used to be, surprisingly enough. While the idea has merit, I question the vehicle. Let me share some thoughts on that. I’ve had some discussions with a friend of mine that has gone through a start-up. It’s in the green energy field. The biggest challenge was finding investment for that.

There currently is a pent-up demand to invest in all kinds of start-up businesses. There is money that is sitting there. We’re really not making much money in the banks, so there is a pent-up demand of people searching for good investments, for good vehicles into which to put their money. I think that rather than come up with a Crown cor- poration, it would probably be better to use some of the existing tools that we have to better unleash some of that pent-up money that’s sitting on the sidelines waiting for the next great idea. The risks that I see are this.

I think it’s problematic when government starts to get involved and pick and choose which businesses we shall invest in and which we shall not. Deputy Speaker:Member, excuse me for a moment. We’re going to take a five-minute recess to regain quorum. The House recessed from 1:41 p.m. to 1:45 p.m. [N. Letnick in the chair.] Deputy Speaker:Just to advise members, quorum in the House is ten, including the Speaker. We had been down to eight. So the choice was either to go for a recess or ring the bells. I thought a recess would be easier. Abbotsford South, please continue. Sorry for the inter- ruption. B.

Banman:Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have to say that you got my heart racing. I was trying to think what the heck I did wrong, but I appreciate you making sure the House has quorum. As I was saying, I commend the concept, but I think that, first off, within the investment community, while half a billion dollars is nothing to sneeze at and it is, indeed, something that taxpayers of British Columbia need to be concerned about, there are billions and billions of dollars sitting, waiting, looking for the right idea.

I believe that what government needs to do, and has always needed to do, is to set up the right conditions in which business can thrive. There are a number of ways that government can do that. I think to when I was running the city of Abbotsford and when I was the mayor, part of what we did there was to ensure that you had land use in neigh- bourhoods where you had abilities for business to come in and have an ability to thrive. Y ou set up the right con- ditions, and the business would come in and fill in that niche. I look at this in a very similar attitude.

I think that right now, during this pandemic, the first thing that we should be doing and ensuring is ensuring that the business that we have…. I go by that adage, when my grandfather ran his sporting goods store in Chilliwack, that the customer that you have is always better. The busi- nesses that we have are the ones that we should be focused on the most, if we are going to give tax incentives or be able to give them a way of keeping their doors open. Those have to come first.

I worry that what we are now going down the path of is setting up a Crown corporation which, quite frankly, in the overall investment world, is going to be underfunded. It’s going to be in direct competition with investment pools that are out there waiting now. We should be looking at how competitive we are as a province. If we want to, for instance, encourage the green eco- nomy and green ideas, I believe that we could put tax incentives in there now that would immediately have money the second after the ink is dry. It would grow our investments now.

Investment pools and investment funds and headhunters are looking for businesses — and the areas in those businesses — that they can invest in that there would be tax advantages. Rather than it take time for a Crown corporation to be built up…. My understanding is that at the earliest, we are looking at the spring of 2022,

whereas what we need are jobs and investments now. That’s almost a year away. [1:50 p.m.] How that’s going to benefit anyone today, tomorrow, when it’s a year away…. I think that it’s a mistake. In addi- tion to that, I don’t believe that it is government’s job or position to actually be picking what companies should benefit and what companies should not. I know that my member in Abbotsford pointed out that in Abbotsford we have a number of businesses around the airport that are on leading edges of technology, leading edges of combatting forest fires, leading edges of aerospace 1706 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, May 11, 2021

technology. Which one do we pick and which one do we not? It’s not government’s place to invest in individual com- panies. I don’t think that it is wise, on behalf of the tax- payers, especially with start-up companies, because most start-up companies are not successful. That’s one of the reasons why I don’t believe that government should be involved in this. How many losers do you pick before you get that one winner? Unfortunately, most start-up com- panies are not successful within the first ten years. Maybe one out of 100 will survive, if not less.

I think what we could do that would be probably more advantageous and unleash, as I was saying, billions of dol- lars is to make sure we’re competitive with regards to how we set the playing field for people to invest in British Col- umbia. I think there are ways that we could actually funnel money into the research departments of universities. I know of one company, in particular, that has invested money in not only UBC but also SFU, with a corporation that they were trying to get up off the ground that, as I was saying, was involved in green technology. I eagerly anticip- ate where they’re going to end up.

If we take a look at our neighbours directly to the south in Washington state, those that have money now, looking for investments, would pick Washington state to invest their money in over British Columbia because of the tax advantages that they have. If we choose to, out of a social conscience, decide that we want to encourage the green economy, there are ways now that we could use some of the investment tools that we have and sharpen our pencil a little bit in those areas and give those companies and those investors an advant- age.

There’s pooled up, pent-up money waiting right now, where people want do the right thing. I think better lead- ership would be by opening that up to all and not restrict- ing it to a few. Let the market figure out which are the ones that are going to survive and which are the ones that are not. I think when government goes down into this road, it’s a slippery slope. I think it’s wrought with peril. Just man- aging the bureaucracy and management of a new Crown corp in and of itself reduces money that could be going into some of these start-up companies, as I was mention- ing.

While I support the concept, I can’t support the way this is being executed, because I do not believe that it is gov- ernment’s place to pick winners and losers, to pick those companies that they decide on, based on whatever ideo- logy at the time. I’m not so sure it matters who’s in power at this point. I just do not believe that a Crown corp should be the one that is picking this. [1:55 p.m.] The other thing is that some of these…. My understand- ing is that these corporations don’t even necessarily have to be profitable. That’s alarming — with the taxpayers’ dol- lars.

Then there is the time delay, as I mentioned. And there’s also…. Let’s, for instance, take the technology fund. Now, there is a sector that is key to British Columbia’s jobs plan. It’s actually growing faster than the overall economy on its whole, in its entirety. The B.C. tech fund was a $100 million venture capital fund. I struggle with the transparency of this. When we were asked about the transparency of it and how it would be set up, we were told: “Well, that’s the privilege of cabinet. ” I find that troubling.

I think that we are duplicating those in that sector, again, and government is setting up a com- peting investment fund that already exists. I don’t believe that that necessarily has to be done. The talent already exists out there. What they are looking for is incentive to come to British Columbia. That incentive can be utilized by dangling a carrot of tax incentives. Let’s make British Columbia the most tax-advantaged place in Canada or North America so that companies will be tripping over themselves to invest money in British Columbia.

There are tools that we could use to make this where British Columbia becomes the centre of excellence for green technology. It would be a much better tool, because instead of limiting it to $500 million, we could be sur- prised and find trillions of dollars come our way if we set up the right incentive. I know that I heard that there was talk of Ireland, for instance. Well, Ireland has some of the lowest taxation rates for corporations in the world — as opposed to where we are, which we’re nowhere near. There’s room for improvement.

I just am at a loss as to why government would want to set up a Crown corporation when, in fact, all they would have to do is just change some legislative rules with regards to taxation, and all of a sudden, money would be coming out of the woodwork to invest in companies here in British Columbia that want to start up in British Columbia and want to succeed in British Columbia.

Y ou know, I am brought to mind when I took a trip to Kelowna that here’s an example of how the province has participated and continues to participate in Kelowna, where there was a combination of education, investment and helping tech sector jobs perfect what they were doing, perfect their pitch, perfect their ideas. They were given a helping hand and then were brought in front of angel investors so that they could get their tech sector jobs off the ground.

I think that is a much better way than what this Crown corporation does. [2:00 p.m.] I can see down the future, where this Crown corpor- ation will be underneath the scrutiny and actually will become an embarrassment, I hate to say, because of the amount of money that will be lost. In addition to which, if you take a look at what the return on investment is, most in that sector would say that they need a return on invest- ment of about 16 percent. This is way less than that. It’s set up for failure already. I, again, go back to….

Y ou’re better off to keep the cus- Tuesday, May 11, 2021 British Columbia Debates 1707

tomer you have than you are to go try and find new ones and ignore your current customers. Our small businesses are our current customer. They’re the ones that pay us taxes. That’s our tax base. If you want to look at it, that’s the profit government gets. It’s off of the tax base of the exist- ing business that we have. Those are the businesses that we want to help right now get through this pandemic. Those are where the current jobs are. These are our friends and neighbours and small businesses — the vast majority of businesses in British Columbia.

It is worth noting that a dollar in a small business has the impact of about six times that in a larger corporation in your local economy, because those profits are reinvested and spent generally in that local economy. So you want to nurture those small businesses. Currently, right now, they’re in a bit of a drought. They could do with a little bit of help. If we were going to spend money, I would suggest that we spend a lot more towards our local small businesses than in setting up a new Crown corp.

I guess it’s worth noting that currently, from what I’ve read, it’s like one in seven small businesses are at the risk of closing their doors for good. The problem when a small business closes its front doors is that it generally loses the doors that they live in as well. My family went through that back in the late ’70s. My father had a business, and due to the high interest rates of 21 and 22 percent at the time, he was forced to liquidate the stock that he had and close his business. The devasta- tion resulted in my parents divorcing because of the finan- cial pressures.

The place that we lived in had to be liquid- ated. It was devastating. It didn’t just happen to my fam- ily. It happened to a number of families that I knew at the time. That’s currently what we’re going through. If we want to talk about helping people currently, who are on the brink of losing everything, that’s where our efforts should be put, not in a new idea that is wrought with peril because it is not set up according to experts — and according to my opinion, not set up correctly.

There are tons of small businesses out there where families are going to be in upheaval, because not only will they lose their source of income, but they will most likely lose everything they have. I speak from experience on that. My brother and I lived through it. We watched it. If we’re going to spend some money, I believe that’s where you want to invest. Save families from having to go through what my family went through and what some of my friends’ families went through. There were a number of us. It all kind of happened to us at the same time.

These are incredibly dangerous waters, I believe, for the government to get into. I think it would be much safer and wiser to create some tax incentives and actually have more investment than the half a billion dollars that we’re talking about here. [2:05 p.m.] Like I said, I applaud the effort. I applaud the idea. I just think, at the end of the day, that it’s going to be an exper- iment — an expensive experiment — on taxpayers’ dol- lars that is not going to work out well. I think that it will become bureaucratic in nature, because that is the very nature of government itself.

I think that it will not be as transparent as some of us have been led to believe it will, because that is the very nature of Crown corps. It is the very nature of government, because now our reputations rely on it doing well. I think that, in addition to that, there are way better uses we could put our money, our hard-earned tax dollars towards. Currently, we have a shortage of skilled workers to take on some of these jobs that are out there.

When I look at most corporations that I talk to — I’ll talk about the aerospace technology, because it’s in my riding — they have to import those skilled technicians, generally, from other areas of the world. I’m happy to have them, but we should be producing those jobs here at home. If we’re going to invest these kinds of dollars, we should be investing them in our children’s future, giving them the skills and the tools that they need to take on some of these high-skilled jobs that are out there that we can’t fill. I would love to support this particular initiative, but I can’t.

I can’t, because in my heart, I know it is not the job of government to pick what individual business it is. This used to come before council all the time. It was one of the hallmarks that government cannot give a business a com- petitive advantage — a particular business. We could, however, open this up, and it would be bigger and bolder and brighter than this particular idea, because the investment dollars would come into British Columbia in waves. There are people that are looking for places right now to invest their money. All we have to do is give them the right tax incentives to be able to do it.

I would encourage this government to retract this and rethink it. I know that they won’t, because they have us outvoted and outnumbered, but this will come back to haunt the NDP like the fast cat ferries did. Trust me. This will be a boondoggle, an absolute boondoggle of taxpayer proportions. Part of me says: “Hey, go ahead and do it at your own peril, because you’re going to be having to face the music on this one down the road. ” It’s not well- thought-out. Heart is in the right place; it’s just, I feel, going to end in absolute, utter disaster.

There are much better vehicles that we have in our back pocket now that would open up money the day after they’re signed. I encourage members of this House to draw away from party lines and turn this particular one down. I think it’s going to come back to haunt this government in a big way. Anyway, with that, Mr. Speaker, I will thank you for allowing me to say a few things on this. I, once again, would encourage my fellow MLAs to think long and hard on this one. I worry that this is not the best way to use hard-earned tax dollars.

There are so many other, better 1708 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, May 11, 2021

ways that we could put that money to work immediately, especially when one takes a look at this budget. Those dol- lars could help existing businesses in a much better way than this ever will. Deputy Speaker:Members participating remotely, just another reminder. Electronic communication devices should not be used while you’re in the House, and you’re in the House right now. Please turn off your cameras if you plan on using your electronic devices for communication. Thank you. [2:10 p.m.] T. Halford:I rise to speak on Bill 5 today, the InBC Investment Corp. Act.

I think it’s important we also realize, too, that in this time right now, thousands of businesses, small and large, are struggling in this province. What wor- ries me is that, particularly with an NDP government, when NDP governments get into business, they become big business, big business becomes small business, and small business goes out of business. I’ve said that before, but I fundamentally believe it to be true. We are looking at an investment by this government of half a billion dollars, as my colleague from Abbotsford South pointed out.

Now, half a billion dollars, at a time when this government in the latest budget is touting a $500 million investment into mental health and addic- tions…. I really do struggle to see how an investment of that size — how it could be so important to help another investment and other ministries in this government. We’re talking about half a billion dollars. Now, this government likes to say it’s government-fun- ded. I think we need to correct the record on that. It’s tax- payer-funded. They are taxpayer dollars.

I think when tax- payers put their hard-earned dollars toward government initiatives, such as what we’re talking about here on Bill 5, they expect some form of return in that investment. I am troubled, because I think that this investment, this partic- ular investment, is flawed. Now, this pandemic has been like no other that we’ve ever experienced in our lifetime. Lives have been lost. Businesses have been lost — many businesses. There is not an MLA in this House that cannot tell multiple stories of small businesses going out of business in their ridings.

That is a very, very sad characterization of where we are. I don’t think any part of our country, any part of North America or this world, is immune to that in these times. But we have to look at us as a collective group. We have to ask government: what are we doing in the moment to help businesses absorb that pain? I don’t think that this piece of legislation addresses that. I think in the long term, as my colleague from Abbots- ford South pointed out, it could actually hurt. I think it will definitely hurt the taxpayers of B.C.

I think when we can do things with money that this government is putting towards this program…. I see government get- ting larger, and I see businesses in B.C. getting smaller. I don’t accept that. When you look at the support that this would give busi- nesses, none of it is immediate. We’re talking about invest- ments that are a year away. A lot of the businesses in our ridings don’t have a year. They don’t have months. Some of them don’t have weeks.

I know that in my riding of Surrey–White Rock, White Rock city council, actually, met yesterday to find ways that they could keep struggling businesses, particularly those on Marine Drive, afloat over the next few months. They’re trying to find those strategies in real time, and they’re making those investments. They made one yester- day, where it’s going to be one-way traffic down Marine Drive so they can expand patio space. They’re going to probably absorb about, maybe, a $100,000 hit because of different barriers they’ve got to put up and make sure that emergency vehicles can get down and everyone back.

Those are areas where we need to be helping. I know that this government has talked about the economic recov- ery benefit and the circuit breaker — those things. I think we need to pause for a moment. [2:15 p.m.] The other thing that gives me a little bit of indigestion is the fact that since this government has come back with a majority, it hasn’t been smooth. In fact, it’s been pretty rough. Everything that this government has tried to roll out has stumbled. Y ou know, that’s not my opinion. Those are facts. When we look at the Premier’s promised $500 to $1,000 rebate, well, that didn’t roll out properly.

People didn’t get the money when they were promised. Why I’m equating…. People are probably wondering why I’m talking about things in the past. But it’s import- ant, because we’re talking about a bill here coming in the very near future, and we’re talking about this gov- ernment’s track record in terms of how they roll out pro- grams. It’s not a good track record. In fact, it’s a track record in failure. When we’re talking about the circuit breaker…. We talked about those months where businesses were dying. They were just holding on. They were trying to make payroll.

People were dipping into their RRSPs, their life savings, their pensions, just to make payroll, to make sure people had food on the table, that they could meet a mort- gage or a rent payment. And government got in the way. “We’re going to give you money, but we’re going to make sure that you…. We want to see everything. ” Then when we gave them everything, it was: “Y eah, that’s not good enough. We want to see some more. ” There are countless examples after examples. I know that this government wants to hit the mark. I do.

I don’t question that at all, but I think that we realize that this government has continued to miss the mark since they’ve come back from the election. I don’t know if that’s because they’ve taken their eye off of what’s important. I don’t know if it’s because they don’t support business. I believe Tuesday, May 11, 2021 British Columbia Debates 1709

that they do ultimately want to support business, but I just don’t think they know how. When we look at a half-a-billion-dollar investment, what are British Columbians really getting for this, besides a big bill? When we say it’s going to be independent, and it will not have government interference…. It’s going to be run by an independent board. Really? Who’s on the board? If we look at that, I think everybody in this House will agree that when the name Carole James comes up, we think about a very, very special person that gave so much to British Columbia.

But she’s a former NDP Finance Min- ister and a former leader of this party. We have two deputy ministers, who at the end of the day are accountable to the Premier’s office. We have a special advisor to the Jobs Minister. And we have an economist from the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives. Now, I think that we’re being a little loose with the term independent. I think that when we talk about independ- ent, I’m not sure that that meets the strength test. I’m not sure British Columbians would call that independent. Now, I know a lot of the people on that list, and they’re good people.

A lot of them have served this province well. I don’t mean these comments to diminish any of that, but if you’re going to label something independent, make it independent. But what we’re seeing here is clearly not that. I really do believe that when we are looking at different things on how to help, this doesn’t hit the mark. When we look at things where we want to encourage investment in British Columbia, some of the best things to do are, kind of, get out of the way.

Make sure that we understand, make sure that people understand that when they’re investing in British Columbia, they’re investing in a place that will support them, that will not gouge them, that will not surprise them, that will not take advantage of them. Because if you’re investing in British Columbia, as a small business or a large business, I think one of the things you want from a government is certainty. [2:20 p.m.] There’s not a lot of certainty here because this govern- ment continues to change the goalposts.

We cannot attract investments when we’re seeing the markers moved con- tinuously by this government. We’ve seen that over the last couple of months since this government has come back. Now, I get it. Sometimes you let your foot off the gas. Y ou take your eyes away. I think what we’re seeing right now is a government that is scram- bling, because we are seeing small business scramble. We are seeing big business scramble. We are seeing layoffs. We are seeing a government that is struggling to provide for British Columbians when they need it the most. When we talk about $500 million — think of that mon- ey.

Now, I have a colleague from Cariboo North who has made impassioned, emotional pleas for her constituents in terms of the dire transportation needs they have in their riding. We’ve seen the pictures. We’ve seen the news. We’ve seen the deplorable conditions that many of these roads are in. Heard crickets from the government on this issue. But what we’re talking about is a $500 million investment that will pick winners and losers. There will be more losers than winners, and ultimately, I’m scared that the taxpayer is going to be the biggest loser in this.

When we’re talking about the prioritization of money for government…. When this government says, “We are making the single biggest investment in mental health and addictions, ” which by the way…. The lowest invest- ment in those three years is this year, where we are see- ing record-setting numbers of deaths that are happening at a very tragic rate.

When my colleague from Cariboo North has to go out and plead for support from this government to get the infrastructure upgrades she needs for her residents and the other communities around, I’m going to look at a $500 million investment with some pretty judgmental eyes. I think we all need to do that. I think we all need to realize that when government gets involved in business, a few red flags go up. When we are looking at how we are going to pick winners and losers…. Again, I fear that when we are picking winners, there are always people that are going to be unsuccessful. How are we supporting them?

How is this government going to support them? What’s the consolation prize? We want to be open for investment in B.C., not closed. But when we continue to nickel and dime small business and big business, when we continue to surprise employers and employees with added additional costs, which this government has done continuously since it came back, I think we need to realize that maybe this fund isn’t where we need to go. I think the fact is that we had to load something up and call it, dress it up as, independent, and it is any- thing far from independent.

Y ou know, when you read the list, it can almost look like a riding association meet- ing for the NDP . Nothing to me says independent about that. We’re talking about $500 million. We talked about a program today to provide kids with produce and veg- gies and milk. They’re not getting their money, but we’re about to spend $500 million. With that, I will end my comments, but I will end them by saying that I think we need to do better than what’s in front of us today. Deputy Speaker:Seeing no further speakers, would the minister like to close debate? [2:25 p.m.] Hon. R. Kahlon:I appreciate all the comments.

I think there are a few comments in particular that I do want to respond to, and to start off by saying that we’re proud here in British Columbia. We have had the highest per capita supports for people and businesses in the entire country. That’s why we’re proud to lead the country in jobs recovery, even in the 1710 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, May 11, 2021

middle of a pandemic. Third wave, and we’re at 99.1 per- cent of pre-pandemic job levels — 99.1 percent. That’s because of the supports we put in, a historic amount of supports. Many of the supports, we worked on with the business community. Some of the members talked about: “Oh, well, the taxes are high in British Columbia. No businesses want to come here. ” Shopify just announced that they’re announcing hundreds of new jobs here. Microsoft announced 500 new jobs here. Best Buy is moving their headquarters from Ontario to British Columbia. Apple has announced that they’re moving a brand-new centre here.

Mastercard is moving one of their new technology centres here, in Brit- ish Columbia. That’s just the tech sector. We continue to see historic investments. They see a gov- ernment in British Columbia that has got a steady hand on the wheel, that is doing the best they can to manage a pandemic, letting the health experts lead and putting in the supports that are needed to ensure that the public is safe and that businesses can survive. The member for White Rock, who just talked about how hard it is for busi- nesses, knows that businesses in his community have seen the benefits of the grants that he talked about.

I do want to touch on a lot of the comments that have been made by the members of the opposition around win- ners and losers. Well, they chose winners and losers. Win- ners were donors. People who donated to them were win- ners when they were in government. Donors to their party were getting contracts. Donors to their party were getting inside information about legislation and laws that were coming before developers were. It’s all on the record. Here we’re going to see an investment that is lauded — overwhelmingly popular with the business community.

The member from Abbotsford said: “Oh, well, experts are telling us…. ” They haven’t named a single expert that’s told them anything. It’s just rhetoric. There are no real people. There are no real facts. They’re using an

article from the local paper and just recycling it in their words. I certainly hope that they’re paying at least a quarter to the journalist who wrote that

article for every time they use his words to fill some time on this debate. We’re proud of these invest- ments — this investment in particular. One other claim that’s been made on this call many times is that government shouldn’t be picking winners and losers. I think that perhaps the newer members may not be aware, but the members who have been in government, and certainly those who have been ministers, know that governments help de-risk projects for the private sector all the time. This is not a new thing.

In fact, when tax credits started for drilling and the oil and gas industry, it was to help de-risk, at that time, the new technologies that were coming on board. Govern- ments have been putting up money to help the business community, the private sector, de-risk on new initiatives all the time. What we’re doing with this fund is, yes, saying, “Fine, we’ll support businesses, ” and that. But we want to ensure that the public sees some benefit from those invest- ments. That’s what is fundamentally happening here. It’s not brand-new. It’s just something that has been done, as was mentioned, in Ireland.

The member from Abbotsford said: “Oh, Ireland has got the lowest taxes in Europe. ” Well, Denmark is actually the leader in this fund, and they have the highest taxes. By the way, many of the business community experts we use do talk about how Denmark is doing the right thing. When we ask them, “How is it that they’re doing that with high taxes?” they don’t really have an answer for that. I think that hearing, certainly, not all the members of the opposition…. Many of them remind me that they’re still living in yesterday — very much in yesterday’s party. They’re not thinking about where the future is.

That’s what we’re trying to do here, with this fund. We’re looking at the future opportunities ahead of us. [2:30 p.m.] The hon. opposition critic for this file had some good points. I really appreciated his comments and look for- ward to talking to him further about this. He talked about strings attached. ESG and the triple bottom line are not strings attached. Those are values of British Columbians. When we invest and when we support businesses, we want to know that our values are being reflected in the outcomes of whatever that investment is. When we say planet, people and profit, those are not strings.

If they feel that way, then I pray for the province that they don’t get an opportunity to run this province again. If they think that putting the planet and people in the main agenda for a fund is strings attached, they’ve got bigger problems, if that’s the case. There are a few things that I wanted to share on the record. First, I’ll talk about the independence of decision- making. Now, if you look at the bill…. I know many have. I certainly know my opposition critic went through the bill.

But many others were not talking about the bill, because if they had looked at the bill, they would see that in the legis- lation, it says that the chief investment officer is not to get any direction from government or even the board. The chair, the board members can’t go walk over to the chief investment officer and say: “Hey, guess what. I’ve got a company I think you should invest in. ” They can’t do that. That’s why it’s in legislation. So when the opposition talks about how, well, they created a great fund, and it was called the B.C. tech fund….

There were no answers, to the B.C. tech fund, to where the money was going. In fact, the cur- rent Attorney General had lots of questions about where that money was going, and we could never get answers. Now every year there will be a public report made in front of the Legislature so all members can see where investments are being made. Every five years an independ- ent audit will be done so the public can see where invest- ments are being made. Y ou know, perhaps the members…. Certainly what the last few speakers from the opposition Tuesday, May 11, 2021 British Columbia Debates 1711

don’t know is that there is a need for patient capital in the market. This is not something that just came up. What I’ d like to do is to read through some of the stake- holders who have said that this is needed. We’ve got Tessa Seager, who’s the director of government affairs for the Council of Canadian Innovators. [S. Chandra Herbert in the chair.] She said: “ Access to strategic capital is a key ingredient in any company’s scale-up journey.

CCI applauds the gov- ernment’s new strategic investment fund and looks for- ward to working with InBC to ensure investments benefit our homegrown high-growth firms. ” Jill Earthy, CEO of Women’s Enterprise, says: “We are thrilled to see you launch InBC, which will support the scaling of small and medium-sized businesses across B.C., with a focus on diversity and impact. We look forward to economic recovery.

It will be essential to build on the entrepreneurial strengths of our province. ” Sue Paish, who many members may know is the CEO of Canada’s Digital Technology Supercluster, said: “Sup- porting high-potential small and medium-sized business across the province will create jobs, drive innovation and accelerate B.C. ’s economic growth, with a sustainable and inclusive economy that will benefit British Columbians across the province. ” Virginia Balcom, executive director of SFU Venture- Labs, said: “InBC is the support that high-growth busi- nesses need to tackle solutions to some of the world’s most pressing problems.

SFU VentureLabs is excited for this new fund and looks forward to helping B.C. ’s growth com- panies be ready to use B.C. funds to fuel their ideas, scale their businesses and drive economic and social benefits. ” Members should get comfortable, because I’ve got a few pages of these. Krista Mallory, manager at Central Okanagan Econom- ic Development Commission, regional district of Central Okanagan, for the member from Kelowna who said: “Why is this even needed?” I listened to the debate. She said: “Why is this even needed?

This is not needed. ” She says: “InBC is the support that businesses need to grow and cre- ate jobs all across British Columbia. We’re excited to see the province launch this new strategic investment fund for British Columbia. ” Central Okanagan Economic Develop- ment Commission — the ones she referred to when she said: “I worked with them, and they said this was not needed. ” Perhaps she should reach out more to those in her community.

Kari LaMotte, managing director of Entrepreneur- ship@UBC says: “The InBC fund will fill a critical gap in our B.C. innovation pipeline, deploying strong early grant capital with follow-on investment capital. British Colum- bia could see a greater impact not only on economic recov- ery but overall retention of capital, talent and IP . ” [2:35 p.m.] Jeanette Jackson, CEO, Foresight: “Raising capital is a key challenge for clean tech ventures.

InBC is the support businesses need to anchor and scale in British Columbia, creating green jobs and accelerating the adoption of clean tech innovations needed to address urgent climate goals. ” Bentley Allan, associate director of Pacific Institute for Climate Solutions, says: “We need an investment vehicle like InBC to help companies take advantage of economic opportunities.

It has the potential to help build low-carbon industries and play an essential role in the success of low- carbon innovation here in British Columbia. ” Jeff Ward, who is a founder of a company here in British Columbia, says: “The first-of-its-kind investment into InBC is not only focused on job creation and accelerating businesses, but it puts emphasis on positive social impacts through B.C. innovative businesses. I’m excited to see how it’ll work with Indigenous businesses that can support and accelerate through InBC. ” Jeff is an Indigenous owner of a business here in British Columbia.

Bridgitte Anderson, maybe familiar to some of the members on the other side, who is the president and CEO of the Greater Vancouver Board of Trade, said: “This signi- ficant investment in InBC funds provides the opportunity to up our game, anchor businesses and IP in British Col- umbia and increase productivity and competitiveness. ” Stephanie Andrew, founding partner of the Women’s Equity Lab and Capital Investment Network, says: “We’re happy to have InBC provide additional capital for invest- ments, capitalizing promising companies so they can com- pete on the world stage and reach new milestones, valu- ations and exits. ” Karimah Es Sabar, CEO and partner of Quark Venture, said: “I am delighted to see B.C. establish a new invest- ment corp. to support innovative technology companies through strategic investments, building on the federal STEP program. ” Anita Huberman, CEO of the Surrey Board of Trade, says: “Surrey Board of Trade looks forward to working with the B.C. government on strategic investment fund InBC, because as Surrey becomes the largest city in B.C. by 2030, we need to capitalize on the economic development initiatives of industry growth. ” Hans Knapp, Y aletown Partners Inc. partner, said: “We’re particularly excited to see the province launch this new strategic investment fund for B.C. businesses, as we believe it will attract investment capital from outside of B.C., thereby multiplying positive economic impacts. ” Paul Geyer, Nimbus Synergies Inc.: “The InBC fund would be a game-changer for B.C. companies requiring growth capital.

Currently there are very few local funds providing this type of capital in B.C., and a new fund will definitely help B.C. companies grow and scale interna- tionally. ” Kim Furlong, CEO of CVCA, says: “British Columbia is one of the top three destinations for private capital in Canada today. The creation of InBC is a recognition of the 1712 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, May 11, 2021

incredible high potential of the province and the govern- ment of B.C. ’s commitment to provide innovative compan- ies access to capital needed to grow and prosper. ” Paul Lee, managing director of Vanedge Capital: “We’re thrilled to see the launch of this important initiative to grow the innovation ecosystem here in B.C.

InBC is cru- cial to the future prosperity and well-being of B.C. and all British Columbians. ” Sam Mod, CEO of FreshWorks Studio in Victoria: “InBC is a bold and entrepreneurial initiative from the government, and we’re thrilled to see the province launch this new strategic investment fund for B.C. businesses. ” Stephen Nairne, chief investment officer of Raven Indi- genous Capital Partners, says: “InBC is a support that busi- nesses needed to grow and create jobs in British Columbia.

We’re thrilled to see the province’s commitment to sup- porting local entrepreneurs through the launch of this new purpose-driven investment vehicle for B.C. businesses. ” Blair Miller says: “We’re excited to see the province’s InBC for B.C. businesses. We look forward to partnering with the government of B.C. through our Telus pollinator fund for good to invest in companies that will drive eco- nomic rejuvenation and have a lasting social impact. ” That’s Blair Miller, managing partner of pollinator fund for good, with Telus.

Jerome Etwaroo, associate director of Coast Capital Innovation Centre at UVic: “The University of Victoria start-up incubator works closely with students, faculty, alumni and community partners to turn ideas and vital research into useable solutions that impact our communit- ies. InBC is a critical investment to accelerate growth of B.C. start-up companies. ” Fiona Famulak, who’s the president and CEO of B.C.

Chamber of Commerce: “The launch of InBC is a win for B.C. that will help attract investment and move us towards a clean post-pandemic economy, while creating jobs, anchoring talent and leveraging technology. ” [2:40 p.m.] Kim Baird, chancellor of Kwantlen Polytechnic Univer- sity and a member of the Indigenous Business and Invest- ment Council, says: “The government of B.C. has such an important role to support economic development.

The creation of InBC Investment Corp. will allow our province and businesses to grow wealth together. ” Paulina Cameron, who is a CEO and a CPA, says: “We’re excited to see the province launch InBC for businesses and look forward to work with InBC to ensure women entre- preneurs have equal access to its resources. ” Hon. Speaker, I’ve got another five pages, but I’ll save all of the quotes for everyone. If they want to read them, feel free to reach out. If they would like to hear more, I’m cer- tainly happy to share that in committee stage. In closing, I’ll just say that we’re proud of this fund.

I’ve heard a couple of members talk about the board mem- bers of InBC. In particular, highlighting that there are two deputy ministers on the board. Deputy ministers serve the people of British Columbia. They serve the people of Brit- ish Columbia. One of the deputy ministers that’s on it was the associate deputy minister for Premier Christy Clark. The other one served the B.C. government as well. To suggest that they’re insiders of some kind, when they were actually deputy ministers under the B.C. Liberal government for 16 years, served the public in a good, faithful way….

So discour- aging to hear the members opposite talk about that about our public servants. People should know better. These are people who have worked tirelessly throughout this COVID pandemic to ensure that we have the supports and infrastructure that people need. People should be ashamed for referring to them in that way. Now, with that — before I get too fired up — I’ll say that we’re proud of this fund. This fund is game-changing. I didn’t even talk about the B.C. Business Council. I didn’t even talk about BDC Capital, who is excited about this.

I didn’t even mention that there are capital funds from all over the world that are reaching out to us right now say- ing: “How do we partner with you?” Singapore wealth fund, Ireland strategic investment fund, the Scottish bank — all of them that invest outside of B.C. are saying: “How can we partner with you?” Not only $500 million, but how do we turn that $500 million into $1 billion, a billion and a half, by having other funds fund with us? These are the opportunities we have in Brit- ish Columbia. I know some members have indicated they will not sup- port this.

But I certainly hope some of the thoughtful ones do, because I think they understand what this means for our economy and for our future economy. With that, I will move that this bill be referred to a Com- mittee of the Whole House to be considered at the next sit- ting of the House after today. An Hon. Member:Division. Deputy Speaker:Division has been called. Of course, pursuant to the sessional orders, that vote will take place 30 minutes prior to adjournment tonight, which is around 6 p.m. Thank you, Members. Thank you, Minister. Hon. S. Robinson:I call Bill 4 for second reading.

BILL 4 — BUDGET MEASURES IMPLEMENTATION ACT, 2021 Hon. S. Robinson:I move that Bill 4, Budget Measures Implementation Act, 2021, be now read a second time. As we look with great anticipation towards the finish line in this pandemic, Budget 2021 sets British Colum- bia up for the stronger times that are, indeed, ahead. Bill 4, the Budget Measures Implementation Act, 2021, Tuesday, May 11, 2021 British Columbia Debates 1713

works to implement critical aspects of Budget 2021. It amends 22 statutes. Bill 4 amends the Carbon Tax Act to give legislative effect to our government’s decision to put a one-year pause on the increase in the carbon tax rates. This was a difficult decision, because our government understands that put- ting a price on carbon is one of the most effective ways of reducing greenhouse gas emissions. But we also under- stood what moving from a $40-per-tonne rate to a $45-per-tonne rate would have meant for businesses and families, just as the pandemic hit.

Delaying the move to a $45-per-tonne rate to this April will reduce carbon tax revenues by an estimated $445 mil- lion over two years and produce savings for families and businesses as we continue to work through the pandemic. [2:45 p.m.] Bill 4 adds the increased employment incentive pro- visions to the Employer Health Tax Act. This increased employment incentive is a one-time, refundable tax credit to encourage hiring in the fall of 2020. The credit is worth up to 15 percent of the increase in payroll in the fourth quarter of 2020, compared to the third quarter of 2020.

The credit is focused on helping employers in B.C. and has provided much-needed support to ensure that B.C. employment is stronger than it would have been other- wise. The proposed legislation outlines which employers are eligible for the credit and the remuneration that can be used to calculate the amount of the credit. Bill 4 also adds the B.C. recovery benefit provisions to the Income Tax Act. The B.C. recovery benefit is a tax-free payment of up to $1,000 for families and single parents and up to $500 for individuals, and forms part of the B.C. government’s ongoing pandemic relief.

Additional provi- sions are included to accommodate individuals on social assistance to ensure that they also receive the B.C. recovery benefit. Through this important program, we’ve been able to rapidly get more than $1.3 billion in pandemic relief into the hands of British Columbia families. Bill 4 also amends the Income Tax Act to allow for repayment relief under the emergency benefit for workers. This will allow us to provide repayment relief to self- employed British Columbians in a way that parallels feder- al repayment relief for Canada emergency response bene- fit recipients.

As announced on March 10, 2021, the bill amends the Income Tax Act to extend the book publishing tax credit for five years, to March 31, 2026. This tax credit continues to support B.C. book publishers, an industry with a predominantly female workforce.

As part of our COVID-19 supports, the bill amends the Income Tax Act to extend the deadline to file tax credits to the earlier of December 31, 2020, and six months from the original filing deadline for the book publishing tax credit, the film tax credits, the interactive digital media tax cred- it, the mining exploration tax credit, the scientific research and experimental development tax credit and training tax credits. This bill also proposes other minor technical amendments to the Income Tax Act to ensure that certain B.C. tax programs continue unaffected, despite changes to the federal Income Tax Act.

The bill also amends the Hydro and Power Authority Act to clarify that the Employer Health Tax Act applies to B.C. Hydro. The amendment is effective retroactive to January 1, 2019. Bill 4 also provides the authority to enable various pro- vincial sales tax measures that will be completed by regula- tion. The first is a COVID relief measure that temporarily expands the PST exemption for new residents’ effects.

The other PST regulation authorized through Bill 4, exempting e-bikes from the PST, fulfils a key mandate commitment and contributes to both CleanBC and our government’s 2019 active transportation strategy, “Move, Commute, Connect. ” Exempting e-bikes from the PST will accelerate e-bike adoption, reduce car trips and get people outside and active, whether it’s through biking to work, running errands, or perhaps even dropping kids off at school or at soccer practice by e-bike.

The Provincial Sales Tax Act is also amended to address the so-called grey market for vehicles described in Peter German’s report on money laundering. This measure, announced in Budget 2021, will make it tougher to parti- cipate in this grey market. Additionally, various technical amendments related to the Provincial Sales Tax Act are made for clarity, consist- ency and to make minor changes consequential to previ- ous amendments.

Bill 4 amends the Motor Fuel Tax Act to expand the definition of “person with disabilities. ” This definition is used to establish eligibility for a fuel tax refund program that returns up to $500 per calendar year to people whose circumstances may make them more reliant on personal vehicles for transportation. There are two aspects to this expansion. First, the definition will now include people who live on reserve lands and who receive disability assistance from the gov- ernment of Canada under a program generally equival- ent to B.C. ’s own disability assistance program.

Second, we’re removing part of the test that applies to members of Her Majesty’s Forces. [2:50 p.m.] Under the long-standing rule, the statute specified that members of Her Majesty’s Forces qualified for our fuel tax refund program if their pension was the result of active service in a war. Through Bill 4, the statute will now rec- ognize that our armed forces members, to whom we owe a great debt of gratitude, qualify for the fuel tax refund pro- gram if their pension relates to any form of service.

Bill 4 amends the Tobacco Tax Act, as well, to increase tax rates for cigarettes, heated tobacco products and loose tobacco. When these changes take effect on July 1, cigar- ettes and heated tobacco products will be taxed at 32.5 cents each. Other forms of tobacco that are taxed by weight will be taxed at 65 cents per gram. 1714 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, May 11, 2021

Our government’s hope is that responsible tobacco tax- ation will discourage tobacco consumption in British Col- umbia and ultimately prolong the lives of current smokers and those around them. Following budget day, we heard congratulations from the Heart and Stroke Foundation, Physicians for a Smoke-Free Canada and the Canadian Cancer Society, with the latter pointing to tobacco taxation as “a win for cancer prevention” and “the most effective way to reduce youth smoking. ” Various amendments related to the Speculation and Va- cancy Tax Act are made as well.

These include an amend- ment to exclude an individual whose beneficial interests in a property are contingent on the death of another indi- vidual from the definition of “beneficial owner, ” an amendment to expand the exemption for registered char- ities to the trustees of the registered charity, an update to the new numbered line used to report total income in the federal income tax and benefit return form and an amend- ment to clarify that an assessment may be made on any day within the defined period of time. The bill amends the Assessment Act to expand the op- tions for B.C.

Assessment and its clients to use electronic delivery of notices and reports. This change will improve service delivery for clients who choose electronic delivery and help maintain B.C. Assessment’s own source revenues while continuing to meet the highest privacy standards. Minor amendments to the Vancouver Charter ensure con- sistency with the amendments to the Assessment Act made by this bill. In addition, the Ports Property Tax Act is amended to add the district of Stewart to the list of municipalities which receive annual compensation from the province under the ports competitive initiative.

Stewart World Port was added by regulation as a designated port under the act beginning with the 2021 tax year. The Property Transfer Tax Act is amended to limit arbit- ration to situations where the dispute relates to the fair market value of a property. In addition, the Police Act ref- erence to current-year policing costs is replaced with a ref- erence to the previous year’s policing costs. This timing change will allow calculation of police tax rates earlier in the tax year.

The bill amends the Special Accounts Appropriation and Control Act to end the annual allocation of amounts to the British Columbia training and education savings program special account after the 2020 calendar year. After operating the program since 2014, it has now become apparent that the annual transfers have resulted in an over- allocation of funds to the special account. There is a cur- rent balance of over $500 million in the account, and that amount can support eligible B.C. recipients for an addi- tional ten years before any additional contribution to the account is required.

This amendment will ensure that the balance of the special account better reflects the costs of the program. When a child in B.C. turns six years old, they are eligible to apply for a $1,200 registered education savings plan grant, which is paid to applicants out of the special ac- count. Program eligibility and payments to qualified recip- ients are not impacted by this proposed amendment. Finally, Bill 4 amends various statutes for two purposes.

First, to allow parties to appeal a tax decision of the Supreme Court of British Columbia without having to first obtain leave of a justice of a Court of Appeal, the following statutes are amended to harmonize appeal procedures with the Court of Appeal Act. That’s the Carbon Tax Act, Employer Health Tax Act, Forest Act, Income Tax Act, Insurance Premium Tax Act, International Business Activ- ity Act, Logging Tax Act, Mineral Tax Act, Motor Fuel Tax Act, Property Transfer Tax Act, Provincial Sales Tax Act, Speculation and Vacancy Tax Act and Tobacco Tax Act.

Second, to improve the flow of information used to inform and evaluate fiscal policy, the following statutes are amended: the Carbon Tax Act, the Home Owner Grant Act, the Insurance Premium Tax Act, Land Tax Deferment Act, Logging Tax Act, Motor Fuel Tax Act, Property Trans- fer Tax Act, Provincial Sales Tax Act and Taxation (Rural Area) Act. [2:55 p.m.] M. Bernier:Thank you to the minister for presenting this bill. Of course, typically, this bill is technical in nature.

In past years, of course, any time a budget is presented, there are the technical components of a bill that need to be put forward any time there are changes. I do find it interesting…. Let me just start. I’m just going to make brief comments, because a lot of my comments and questions will come when we get to not only commit- tee stage but during the estimates debate on finance. But I do find it interesting that the minister ended her com- ments very quickly and, I would argue, brushed over the facts — some of the big complaints that I’ve been hearing. Before I get into the budget components themselves.

The minister just referenced over a half a dozen different acts where there are going to be changes being made around collection of information around fiscal policy, as the minister kind of quickly put it. Let me just explain that a little bit. It will be interesting later on, when we get into information sharing with the minister, on the actu- al needs for this.

But there are quite a few of the sections where changes have been made, and the wording actually is “allows government employees to use the data to create fiscal policy. ” What’s interesting, though, is the government is chan- ging a lot of the acts to gather more information from businesses, from communities, from citizens. Y ou look at the homeowners’ grant — specifically, on that one, some of the debates that we’ve been hearing and concerns that people have of now having to put their social insurance number on the form.

The minister, by her own comments, has said: “Well, this is to gather as much information as we can for the Tuesday, May 11, 2021 British Columbia Debates 1715

NDP government to create future fiscal policy. ” I can tell you, without information on what that means, there are a lot of people that have a lot of concern about this govern- ment continually trying to get and gather more personal information for some future reasoning. When we look at the budget itself, obviously Bill 4 is here because of the budget that was tabled just a few short weeks ago. One of the underlying themes that we’ve seen is hardly any opportunity for revenue generation, other than this government going back to the public trough of taxa- tion.

One of the biggest issues that I have and that we’re hearing is the fact that this is going to continually under- mine British Columbia when it comes to competitiveness, when it comes to confidence for investment and when it comes to certainty within the province. When the government continues to highlight, especially in Bill 4 here, the amount of changes that are required around taxation and taxation policy….

I can tell you, as a former business person myself, that that raises the hair on the back of anyone’s neck — when you wonder about what that means for future, what that means for investment, and whether British Columbia is the proper place to be putting any of your capital or investment dollars into the future. I would hope that all sides of the House want to see British Columbia thrive. But to do that, we have to have a positive, competitive investment climate. That also means giving some certainty and, as I say, confidence that government is going to deliver on the promises that they’ve laid out.

When you look at the last election, or even the one prior to that, the NDP government continues to lay out promises that they’ve been unable to deliver on. Again, that raises the concern for people of: “Which promises do we believe? Which ones should we be trusting?” When the Premier and the ministers stand up and say, every election, “$400 renters rebate, ” but it doesn’t hap- pen, well, I guess we’ve given up believing that one.

Meanwhile, the government is sitting on $1.1 billion of unallocated funds that could be used right now during the COVID recovery issues. [3:00 p.m.] I know I’ve challenged the minister before in govern- ment on the fact that they continue to try to make an- nouncements for helping people during this unfortunate pandemic and the crisis that we see ourselves in, in the province. That is why all three parties in the House worked collectively and collaboratively to ensure that there were dollars approved and set aside in order to help people right now in crisis.

Nowhere in the last 18 months do I remember the dis- cussion being: “Don’t worry. We’re going to hold on that money. ” I don’t remember us voting on a policy that says: “Let’s approve money for government to sit on. ” I was under the impression that everything we’ve discussed so far was to help people, which it hasn’t done to the extent of what government has promised. Right now we have almost 40,000 people in the private sector who are still unemployed, since the pandemic star- ted. What are we doing to help those people? What are we doing to help communities right now that are struggling?

What are we doing to help small businesses and restaur- ants that are on the brink of bankruptcy? Now, the min- isters in the NDP government will try to stand up and say: “Don’t worry. We have all of these policies that we’ve announced, all of these grant application processes that we’ve announced. ” But they neglect to say how hard it is for people and for companies to qualify. That was nowhere in any of the debates or discussions we had that I remember, when all three parties said: “Let’s do what we can to help people.

Let’s get the money out the door. ” It’s actually a shame that the government still sits on all of that money. Not only during the discussion on this bill around some of the changes that are required but also during the estimates process, I’m hoping that the minis- ter will be able to give factual and non-political answers to why government is actually still sitting on money and why people are still waiting. I just get very frustrated, on behalf of so many people who have reached out to me as the Finance critic and who are baffled by the lack of response from this government on fulfilling most of their promises.

In fact, even some of the areas where government has put in policy changes…. I look at the speculation and vacancy tax, for instance. Well, that, for the most part now, is affecting and hitting mostly B.C. residents. I have been copied on emails from people who have been, I will say, targeted by something like the spec- ulation and vacancy tax. Y ou know, I’ve got emails. A 90-year-old woman in the Okanagan inherited from her brother, who’ d unfortunately passed away, a piece of land on a lake with nothing on it. She now has an $8,000 bill that she has to pay for speculation and vacancy tax.

When she tried to challenge that, when she tried to question the minister and the ministry, the email response was: “Well, you could actually develop that land and rent it out, or you can sell it. ” There was no compassion. There was no understanding for what this woman was actually going through — a 90-year-old woman who’ d lost her brother and who now has to pay $8,000 for a piece of land she inherited. And the government’s response is: “Well, just sell the land. We know it has been in your family for 75 years. But you know what?

We have this new policy. ” Somehow, having this land is going to help people who are struggling to find affordable housing right now. These are exactly some of the flaws that we identified on day one through some of the policy and taxation collec- tion schemes that the NDP have. I was, though, interested to hear the minister’s comments when she mentioned the speculation and vacancy tax on Bill 4 and some of the changes. It’ll be interesting to see now if she’ll be able to contact this woman, and others that I’ve heard from, to say 1716 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, May 11, 2021

that they’re actually making positive changes to not tar- get and negatively affect people in British Columbia who should not be paying this extra tax. [3:05 p.m.] I won’t get into much more detail on the actual budget itself, because I know we’ll have lots of opportunity to do that later.

When you look at Bill 4 itself, there are a lot of technical changes, a lot of changes that are benefit- ing government because of taxation — taxation increases, taxation law changes — and then the information-gather- ing, as I mentioned at the onset, by government from the citizens of British Columbia for possible future taxation policy, whatever that means. The history of the NDP will have a lot of people con- cerned that that means we’ll be paying more taxes. Is it worth investing here in British Columbia? What does that mean for affordability in the province?

I look forward to the minister explaining, in a little bit more detail, what the positive effects — not to government but to the citizens of British Columbia — will be because of the taxation law changes that will be taking place through this bill.

I look forward to getting to estimates with the minister so that on other areas that I talked about and that are part of this bill, we can get into more fulsome discussion on this budget, which has had really no plan to help people, and how the government will now be able to change that and identify areas that will be helping the people of British Columbia, even though they’ve neglected to increase the budget in so many areas where it could have actually done so. If nothing else, the NDP has failed to follow through on most of their election promises. There’s nothing in the budget or in this bill that does that.

I look forward to the discussion, to the debate, as we go forward, and the explanations from the minister to follow through with the lack of information that people are look- ing for. Deputy Speaker:Seeing no further speakers, I recog- nize the Minister of Finance to close debate. Hon. S. Robinson: I have to say, in listening to the member’s comments, that he clearly hasn’t read the budget document very well.

There’s lots in there for British Col- umbians — in particular, making sure that we continue to protect their health and their well-being, which has been a priority of our government since we formed govern- ment in 2017, certainly through the pandemic and cer- tainly with this budget, as well as supporting people and businesses. We have been there for British Columbians from the beginning of the pandemic. We will continue to be there for them as long as they need their government there responding to their unique challenges.

We work together with people to make sure that we understand what their needs are so that we can be responsive. We have, I believe, demonstrated that through this pandemic. We’re going to keep doing that, because that’s what this budget is about. I also want to certainly acknowledge that we recog- nize that with the robust vaccination program that is be- ing undertaken right now and everyone getting vaccin- ated, the opportunities that come with recovery are very significant. We are preparing, through this budget, for that as well.

With that, I move second reading of Bill 4, the Budget Measures Implementation Act, 2021. Motion approved. Hon. S. Robinson:I move that Bill 4 be referred to a Committee of the Whole House for consideration at the next sitting of the House after today. Bill 4, Budget Measures Implementation Act, 2021, read a second time and referred to a Committee of the Whole House for consideration at the next sitting of the House after today. Hon. M. Farnworth:I call second reading of Bill 8, intituled the Public Safety and Solicitor General Statutes Amendment Act, 2021.

BILL 8 — PUBLIC SAFETY AND SOLICITOR GENERAL STATUTES AMENDMENT ACT, 2021 Hon. M. Farnworth:I move that the bill now be read a second time. It’s my pleasure to rise today to speak to Bill 8, the Public Safety and Solicitor General Statutes Amendment Act, 2021. In the lead-up to the fall 2018 federal legaliza- tion of non-medical cannabis, the province had to devel- op provincial legislation to regulate cannabis distribution and retail sales, under very tight timelines.

That legislation, the Cannabis Control and Licensing Act, has enabled the successful implementation of a licensing regime for private cannabis retailers in B.C., of which there are now over 340 across the province. [3:10 p.m.] Because of the uncertainty about the final text of the federal legislation and the fact that the B.C. retail licensing regime was still under development, the B.C. legislation included temporary extraordinary regulation-making powers. These powers ensured that unforeseen issues could be addressed quickly.

Because of its extraordinary nature, that regulation power included a sunset clause, and as a result, any regulations made under it will automatic- ally be repealed on July 9, 2021. The draft amendments in this bill serve primarily to make permanent the regulations made under the ex- traordinary regulation power and ensure that administra- tion of the retail licensing scheme can continue without Tuesday, May 11, 2021 British Columbia Debates 1717

interruption. I would note that one specific example of how the extraordinary regulation power was used was to establish a robust, fit and proper determination process to prevent individuals associated with organized crime from entering the legal cannabis industry. The bill also includes some housekeeping amendments for clarification purposes and to ensure the legislation functions as intended. I want to emphasize that these amendments do not change government policy with re- spect to cannabis regulation. As well, this bill also includes a minor amendment to the Liquor Control and Licensing Act. While that act gen- erally prohibits public consumption of liquor,

section 73(2) allows a municipality or regional district to make a bylaw designating public places under its jurisdiction where liquor may be consumed. In response to the ongo- ing COVID-19 pandemic, some local governments, including the cities of North Vancouver, Port Coquitlam, Penticton and, most recently, New Westminster, have used this authority to designate public places for liquor con- sumption where people can more easily maintain physical distance, supporting the orders and recommendations of the provincial health officer. The

section as currently drafted only applies to muni- cipalities and regional districts. However, there is a unique situation in Vancouver. The Vancouver Charter grants exclusive jurisdiction over all public parks in the city to the Vancouver park board. Because the park board is not a municipality or a regional district and the city has no jurisdiction over park board land, this means there is no local authority that can currently designate public parks under park board jurisdiction as places where liquor may be consumed.

The amendment in this bill would address this incon- sistency in authority by extending the power to desig- nate public places for liquor consumption to the park board. The park board has requested this authority. If and when the park board decides to use this authority, the selection and designation of sites will fall entirely to them. Any necessary compliance and enforcement activ- ities will similarly be the responsibility of the park board and the local police.

This proposal is in line with longstanding policy that responsibility for decision-making on liquor consumption in public places is most appropriately placed with local authorities. M. Morris: Listening to the minister speaking on this…. We had a great briefing with staff, as usual. Some great folks working in your ministry. It clarifies a lot of things and eliminates some of the confusion that we’ve experienced in the initial stages of enforcing this particu- lar statute and this new phenomenon of legal cannabis in Canada and across British Columbia.

I see this more as an evolution of the statute itself to make it easier for law enforcement and for people to do the job that they have to do. But I do have a couple of issues to speak about here. I wouldn’t be doing my job if I didn’t. I go back to a media release back in August 2020. Many of my colleagues have had constituents come in to speak to them — I’ve spoken to many — with respect to people that have followed the guidelines and the requirements under this legislation, ordered to obtain legal cannabis retail approval. They’ve invested a lot of time and energy. I’ll talk about the fit and proper thing.

That’s a great addi- tion to this particular statute. [3:15 p.m.] Part of the problem that we have is that individuals who put out a lot of time and effort and money and reveal their souls to the world in the application process are often thwarted by illegal sales on First Nations reserves and downtown Vancouver and other communities that we have around the province.

In August of 2020, the minister is quoted in a media release and says that “the issue of enforcing provincial law on First Nations is challenging, as the province is leery of triggering court challenges that could potentially have a major impact on provincial and Indigenous laws. ” So this is confusing. We have to ask: who then does this particular bill apply to? Who does Bill 8 address? I’m going to talk about this for a little bit. The laws of general application apply on First Nations communities. I understood this during my years of enforcement within the RCMP .

But one of the concerns I have over a statement like this is the vulnerability that is extended then into our First Nations communities. It could be through willful blindness on behalf of the First Nations itself, or it could be through blackmail or intimidation by organized crime. We’ve seen this in other locations across Canada, where organized crime will use these nebulous areas or these grey areas to see into and exercise their strength through blackmail, through intimidation or through other means in order to sell their product. Do we know where these illegal retailers are getting their product from?

The whole premise of the safe supply, in Canada under the federal legislation, was health, to make sure that the product that British Columbians and Canadians were buy- ing met the rigorous health standards that we have in Canada. We all know…. Those of us that were in enforce- ment know, but I think the general public probably has some idea about this. Some of the ingredients that were used in these illegal grow operations to obtain volume and mass and weight in order to make a dollar were…. The health concerns of the public were tossed out the window. We saw a lot of this transpire across the country.

British Columbia had a reputation for good bud and bad bud. We’ve seen it on both sides. I go back to my years of enforcement. For a number of years, I enforced the Excise Act in northern British Col- umbia — stills and illegal whisky and illegal spirits. A lot of the public was under the impression that because it was a revenue statute, the RCMP had to get involved and 1718 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, May 11, 2021

take down these stills, because the government was losing money on it. That was the furthest thing from our minds when we were enforcing the Excise Act and taking down the illegal stills. Some years I would take down two or three dozen illegal stills and hundreds of gallons of moonshine. About 99 per- cent of that moonshine was poison. It tested at very high concentrates of fusel oils and other contaminants in it that were harmful to an individual’s health.

I think that might be the impetus behind guaranteeing the wholesale avail- ability of cannabis in Canada and British Columbia — to ensure when government puts their stamp on it, govern- ment is saying: “This is safe. This is okay for you to con- sume, and it won’t cause any serious side effects. ” By not enforcing in some locations that might be into this so-called grey area is jeopardizing and putting people’s health at risk, but it’s also enabling organized crime. We see the proliferation of gang slayings and activity across the Lower Mainland here. It’s not isolated to the Lower Mainland.

We see it in Prince George. We see it in Kelow- na. We see it in just virtually every community that we have in British Columbia. If organized crime and gangs see an opportunity, they will take it. This is an opportunity for them. There are all kinds of experiences over the past 20 or 30 years that I can think of where organized crime has taken advantage of this. [3:20 p.m.] Clause 18 of this bill brings in what the minister referred to as the fit and proper determinations. I like this. I just want to read a couple of sections from this.

It shows you the rigour that the minister and his staff had foresight to put into this particular legislation. I commented on it dur- ing the briefing as well — that I thought it was excellent. Of course, they’re much the same provisions as we have under the Liquor Control and Licensing Act as well.

But it says that in determining whether an applicant or a licensee is fit and proper or of forming an opinion about whether an applicant or a licensee is fit and proper, the manager may take into account any associate of the applicant or licensee and any person having a connection to an asso- ciate of an applicant or a licensee. So they’re bearing their soul. They’re putting their application in. They’re paying their fee. I’ve heard stories of fees as high as $30,000, $35,000.

That’s in addition to the hundreds of thousands of dollars that they might have invested in obtaining a lease or build- ing facilities on the property. Then, of course, tying those funds up for a couple of years as they go through this pro- cess. But they’re also saying: “Here I am. Check me out. Oh, and I’m hanging around with, you know, my friend from the Shuswap. I’m hanging around with…. I’ve got associates in other parts of the province that may have a direct connection to me and my business. ” They check those folks out as well. Illegal retailers don’t do that. They don’t care.

They’re just going to go, and whoever provides them the muscle or the money or the transportation or the ability for them to sell their product without any hassle by enforcement officers, they’ll take that opportunity. Another part of that same clause, under this bill…. It’s a new

section under “Fit and Proper. ” So 29.5 says: “If the prescribed checks conducted by a relevant manager” — under the

section that I spoke about — “disclose that an applicant or a licensee, or an associate of the applicant or a licensee or a person referred to in

section 29.4(1)(c), is or has been involved in criminal activity, the general manager may rely on the disclosure, without any underlying sens- itive law enforcement information, to determine that the applicant or licensee is not fit and proper. ” That’s quite a statement there. We have a number…. We’ve seen it on the news, where a number of these illegal retailers were pleading, saying: “Well, I’ve been doing this for a few years now. Let me…. Just sign me off, and grand- father me in, and let me carry on. ” But they were commit- ting the criminal offence of trafficking in a controlled sub- stance.

Any retailer that is currently involved in that — traffick- ing in a controlled substance, possession of a controlled substance that they obtained from an illegal source, pretty much anybody that’s operating an illegal retail outlet — won’t be guaranteed, or they won’t get any kind of a licence in the future, because of that particular section. I know that there are provisions under the Cannabis Control and Licensing Act — I believe it’s

section 119 — where government can assist some of these First Nations communities in getting to that place where they are legal. But I see a bit of a conflict that might surface during this process because of this particular

section here. They’re very strict. I think that the strictness of this particular

section indicates that government recognizes the inherent public safety risks associated to illegal cannabis retail, either through organized crime and the vulnerability to the blackmail and the intimidation that these organizations perpetuate, or through the health risks that are associated to selling a product that you don’t know where it comes from.

Y ou don’t know what was used in the growing pro- cess itself that might lead to health factors down the road. [3:25 p.m.] Another quote from about that same period of time, from the minister, says: “ Although the province takes the position that B.C. ’s Cannabis Act is a ‘law of general applic- ation’ that applies to all of British Columbia, including First Nations’ land, the minister says there is concern that this

interpretation could be ‘tested’ by actions such as enforcement. ” The

interpretation could be tested by actions such as en- forcement. As a seasoned veteran police officer that has enforced all kinds of statutes and laws over time — long- standing laws, new legislation — it’s always tested. That’s the evolution of our case law in Canada. The letter of the law prevails. The Charter of Rights and Freedoms prevails. Tuesday, May 11, 2021 British Columbia Debates 1719

That’s the foundation upon which all our law is drawn. But if there is a concern that the minister has expressed in this regard, he sheds, again, a little bit of haze over this process to say we’re not really sure that our laws are going to stand up to a Charter test or to an argument here. Police and Crown counsel should not be put into a position by government where they have to enforce and prosecute dubious legislation.

I know, when I was sitting in the chair, if we had a bill brought in to me as the Soli- citor General, it would be yellow-flagged or red-flagged as to what some of the possible implications might be from a Charter perspective or from the legal perspective, where it might interfere with some other statute or some other provision of a law somewhere else. I’m just won- dering — we’ll talk about this at the committee stage — whether any of these cautionary flags have been raised during this process. The issue that the minister spoke about — about how the

interpretation could be tested by actions such as enforcement — is a good thing. If the public safety unit goes and raids an illegal retail facility, and that facility feels that their rights have been infringed under the Charter and the law has not been properly interpreted, they have every right to take that issue before the courts and appeal it before the courts. It’s not up to the minister. It’s not up to the police to interpret whether that legislation is true and just under the Charter. It’s up to the courts.

I would say let’s enforce this legislation to the letter — to the letter — the way it’s been written, and let’s shut down all illegal grow operations in British Columbia, no matter where they sit, and ensure that British Columbians get a product that is not going to jeopardize their health, make sure that they’re going to get a product from a retail outlet that is not hooked up to organized crime, that’s not associ- ated to the gangland slayings that we’re seeing right across the province, particularly in the Lower Mainland here.

If that retailer honestly feels that they have been targeted unjustly by the police, then challenge that. Take it to the court. Take it to the highest court in the land and get clari- fication on whether or not they can legally have that retail sales within their First Nations community or wherever that retail outlet may lie. Let them challenge the federal component of this on the supply of cannabis.

If they feel that they should be able to buy it from anybody, from any source in the country, let them challenge that, and let the courts determine whether this is a true and just law that is going to protect the public and protect the health of the public moving forward. In essence, when I looked at the bill — and I went through the bill in fine detail — I liked what I saw in there. I think it’s got potential to hold things together and to fulfil the intent that the minister and the government intended when they passed the Cannabis Act during our first term. I think it will hold that.

I think it will withstand, in my experience, the scrutiny of the courts moving forward. But let’s not be afraid to push it out there and enforce it and have somebody chal- lenge it. If they don’t challenge it, great. We’ll take that illegal cannabis off the street, and hopefully we’ll keep people from suffering from any ill health concerns as a res- ult of consuming that at the end of the day. [3:30 p.m.] It will be a big step in starting to shut down organized crime. They will take advantage of every crack in the armour that they can. [N.

Letnick in the chair.] I think a strong enforcement action is what’s needed, particularly in today’s world, in order to thwart that activ- ity and make sure that the legal retailers that go through this rigorous process, that bear their soul to the world to show them that “I have nothing to hide; I haven’t commit- ted any criminal activity; I’m not associated to any known criminals that are going to help me with this” — that they will get a return on their investment, and the public will be in a much safer position at the end of the day.

I look forward to the committee stage, where we can kind of pop the hood open on this a little bit more. I’m not going to spend too much time on it at the committee stage, but I do want to examine some of these issues in there. G. Kyllo:I’m certainly proud to rise today with respect to Bill 8, Public Safety and Solicitor General Statutes Amendment Act. As my colleague the member for Prince George–Mackenzie has shared, there are definitely signi- ficant concerns when it comes to the current cannabis legislation and the lack of enforcement.

I did have an opportunity last year during the estim- ates process to ask some fairly succinct questions of the Solicitor General with respect to the applicability of the cannabis legislation. Through that process, the minis- ter was able to confirm, as he has previously indicated, that the cannabis retail legislation is identified as being laws under general application, which means they have force and effect over all lands in Canada, including First Nations lands.

As we know, the federal government has a responsibility for the production and cultivation of can- nabis in Canada, and it is the province’s responsibility with respect to the safe retail sale. Now, I’ve had a number of businesses, over the course of the last few years, write letters and visit me in my constitu- ency office in Salmon Arm expressing extreme concern of illegal cannabis operations that seem to be proliferat- ing throughout the Shuswap region, operating with appar- ent impunity.

Y et despite bringing these legal operations to the attention both of the RCMP and the community safety unit, there’s been no action undertaken whatsoever. One particular operator had shared with me that it cost him upwards of $500,000 to set up his legal cannabis oper- ation — the requirements as far as the background checks; the requirement for proof of insurance; significant security 1720 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, May 11, 2021

planning; security cameras; the manner in which he has to purchase all of his cannabis products from federally approved sources; and, of course, the responsibility for registering with Wo

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	20210511pm-Hansard-n67
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	20210511pm Hansard n67
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	80796da6afadb8902e97f8d4873e5b44f6476aa0

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