April 4, 2006 GOVERNMENT SERVICES

COMMITTEE

Pursuant to Standing Order 68, Yvonne Jones, MHA for the

District of Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair replaces George Sweeney, MHA for the

District of Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

The Committee met at 7:00 p.m. in the Assembly Chamber.

CHAIR (Skinner): Order, please!

Good evening folks. Thank you very much for coming out tonight. I would like

to welcome you all here.

I think what we will do is start off, first of all, by just introducing

ourselves so that we all know each other. When we finish with the introductions

then I will continue on.

My name is Shawn Skinner, MHA for St. John's Centre.

MR. ORAM: Paul Oram, MHA for Terra Nova.

MR. ANDERSEN: Wally Andersen, MHA for Torngat Mountains.

MS JONES: Yvonne Jones, MHA for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MR. LANGDON: Oliver Langdon, MHA for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.

MR. FORSEY: Clayton Forsey, MHA for Exploits.

MS E. MARSHALL: Beth Marshall, MHA for Topsail.

CHAIR: I am sorry, minister. Go ahead, please.

MS WHALEN: Dianne Whalen, Minister of Government Services and MHA for

Conception Bay East & Bell Island.

MS MACDONALD: Sheree MacDonald, Deputy Minister of Government Services.

MR. MOORES: Wayne Moores, Manager of Financial Operations.

MR. CAHILL: Larry Cahill, Chief Operating Officer, Government Purchasing

Agency.

MS COLEMAN-SADD: Vanessa Coleman-Sadd, Director of Communications.

MS KELLAND: Donna Kelland, Assistant Deputy Minister of Government

Services.

MS DUNPHY: Kim Dunphy, Assistant Deputy Minister, Occupational Health and

Safety, Government Services.

MR. MORRIS: Winston Morris, Assistant Deputy Minister, Consumer and

Commercial Affairs, Government Services.

CHAIR: Thank you very much folks. It is nice to put some faces to names.

I have heard some of the names lots of times but I am just seeing you for the

first time, so welcome to everybody.

My plan is to allow whomever is going to lead off with questions to sort of

carry on for awhile. Ms Jones will lead off. I am not going to go the ten minute

and ten minute. I am just going to let you go on. When you feel like you want to

take a break let me know and I will move on to another speaker, another

questioner. We will just see how that goes.

Before we start that, I am going to ask the minister - do I have to read the

heading in first?

CLERK: Yes.

CHAIR: Okay. I have to read in the heading. Once I read in the heading,

minister, then I am going to turn it over to you and you can do your

introductory remarks, however long you need for that. After we do that, we will

start with the questions.

CLERK: Subhead 1.1.01.

CHAIR: I will just read into the record, under Government Services,

heading 1.1.01. I will pass the floor to the minister so you can do your opening

remarks.

MS WHALEN: Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the Committee for

giving me an opportunity to give an overview of my department.

The Department of Government Services has an extensive public service mandate

encompassing Consumer and Commercial Affairs, Government Services and

Occupational Health and Safety branches. All branches have one thing in common -

we are here to protect the public and the occupational health and safety of the

residents of this Province and to safeguard consumer interests.

Of our $30.5 million in spending for 2006-2007, almost 72 per cent is for

salaries - reflecting the fact that our main resources are our human resources

dedicated to service delivery - as is fitting for a service-oriented department.

As well, over 27 per cent of our budget is spent directly in regions outside of

the St. John's-Mount Pearl metropolitan area, including Motor Registration

Division, Government Service Centres, Vital Statistics, Residential Tenancy and

Occupational Health and Safety services. Part of the remaining 73 per cent is

also focused on providing provincial level services to the regions.

In addition to service delivery in the regions of the Province, we have made

a commitment to make government more accessible to people and companies through

the Internet. We have made significant progress in this area through on-line

services, such as vehicle registrations, and registries for companies, deeds,

lobbyists and mechanics liens. As well, we have also implemented the Web-based

Lien Check system to make it easier for consumers to search the Province's

Personal Property Registry for loans.

To give you a quick snapshot of some of our revenues, our commercial

registries generally collects revenues of $24.3 million. Vital Statistics

collects $820,000 in revenue, and licence and registration processing at the

Motor Registration Division has a revenue of $68 million for all fees collected.

In the 2006-2007 Budget, we will be continuing improvements in this area and

plan to implement a pilot project for all on-line debit transactions, in

addition to the current credit card acceptance.

In the area of public safety, we are in the final stages of developing an ATV

safety awareness campaign to promote the safe use of ATVs. We hope to launch

this campaign later this spring.

In Budget 2006, we have increased funding for public education and awareness

of other safety

issues to reduce the incidence of cell phone use by drivers, increase the use

of seatbelts and child safety seats and help eliminate drinking and driving. In

future, we hope this campaign will also address other issues of public and

consumer health and safety.

In Budget 2006, we have been able to make improvements in the area of

monitoring highway safety and protection of our public road infrastructure by

opening the fixed weigh scales at Port aux Basques and Foxtrap on a strategic

basis. We now have the flexibility to enhance our efforts in this area through a

fiscally prudent approach.

Government will provide a total of $283,500 to re-activate those fixed weigh

scale facilities. The Port aux Basques operation will be generally tied to the

Marine Atlantic ferry schedule, to capture commercial traffic coming to and

leaving the Island. Foxtrap will operate on a strategic, part-time basis in

conjunction with the region's portable weigh scales unit in order to improve

enforcement.

While we continue to believe that highway safety was not significantly

compromised with the earlier decision to close these facilities, we do agree

that increased monitoring and enforcement would be beneficial now that we are in

a position to do so, particularly as it relates to maintenance of the road

infrastructure. As part of this initiative, we will be enhancing our evaluation

system to get a clearer picture of compliance by the trucking industry and where

we need to further target our efforts.

Another area of utmost importance to us is public health and safety. In

co-operation with the Department of Health and Community Services, my department

is responsible for the Environmental Health program. A total of $3.3 million is

spent annually on the monitoring of food and drinking water safety, public

health in schools, personal care homes, day cares, recreational and other public

facilities and responding to communicable disease outbreaks. A total of

thirty-six Environmental Health Officer positions are dedicated to this effort.

In 2006-2007, we have converted seven temporary of these Environmental Health

Officer positions to permanent for a long-term investment of $450,000. This will

help us to recruit and retain people, who have been in high demand across the

country, especially since the drinking water tragedy which occurred at

Walkerton, Ontario.

We have also secured an investment of $80,800 for a bursary program to

develop a pool of certified EHOs to fill vacant positions, particularly for

rural areas. In addition to our regular staff complement, the Department of

Government Services will be recruiting a minimum of two trainees through this

program in the 2006-2007 fiscal year.

Budget 2006-2007 will provide $35,000 for Vital Statistics to issue a newly

designed birth certificate with enhanced security features to lower the risk for

identity theft. This is a project which is being carried out across the country

so that all birth certificates will have the same look and feel no matter where

you live in this country.

The Occupational Health and Safety Branch has had another productive year in

terms of inspection activity. They have issued almost 6,000 directives in 2005,

a 32 per cent increase over 2004. The branch has conducted a little over 3,500

inspections, a 36 per cent increase over 2004 numbers and they have issued 400

stop work orders, a 67 per cent increase over 2004. These numbers show we have

stepped up our inspections to take on a zero tolerance policy. Our workplaces

are not becoming more unsafe, we are becoming more efficient.

By improving our workplaces for employees, we are reducing the number of

workplace injuries and deaths, which in turn reduces the burden on our health

care and compensation systems. This focus on inspections will continue this year

with a total budget of $4.38 million.

The Government Purchasing Agency, through the Chief Operating Officer, is

directly responsible to the Minister of Government Services. Last year the

agency was involved in a major reorganization to satisfy a new mandate of

transparency, accountability and fair opportunity. Some positions have been

filled while others will be posted in the upcoming year as program and system

support are finalized. It is expected full staff complement will be achieved in

the current fiscal year.

Thank you for the time to speak to you. I have brought my staff along, if

there are any questions pertaining to the budget.

CHAIR: Thank you, minister.

If I could, I just had a couple of quick housekeeping items that I wanted to

mention. Just for members of the committee, I was given a

schedule late today

that has some changes to our times. So, the changes - actually, we were

scheduled to meet next Monday evening but according to the

schedule I was given,

we will also be meeting next Monday morning and doing Finance and the Public

Service Commission. So, instead of just the three meetings that we were

scheduled, there is now a fourth one. I do not know if you guys were given that

change yet or not, but I just wanted to mention it to you. If there are any

questions on that, you can see me later on about it. I think that is it.

Ms Jones, are you ready?

MS JONES: Yes, I am.

CHAIR: Okay, when you are ready you can start.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

My name is Yvonne Jones. I am the MHA for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair and I

am filling in for my colleague this evening, George Sweeney, who is also the

critic for this department. I thank you minister for your opening comments and

to your staff for being available to us this evening.

I would like to start with some questions around the Insurance Reform

Program. Back, I think it was a little over a year ago, your department made

some reform to the insurance program in Newfoundland and Labrador - I guess with

the intention of reducing insurance rates in the Province, especially for people

with automobiles in particular. I would like for you to give me an update as to

how much the premiums were reduced in that current year, if the strategy is

still working and if there are savings still being realized by automobile

owners?

MS WHALEN: Well, we have made significant reforms in our auto insurance.

Actually, in 2004 we made a reduction of 15 per cent in our auto premiums. In

2005, we made another 5 per cent reduction. We have also commissioned the PUB to

do a review in our marine, commercial and residential insurance. That report, I

understand, will be available - within the next few weeks probably - to

Government Services and we will be looking at it then, if we need to take any

more steps in our insurance reforms.

MS JONES: Who did you say is doing the review?

MS WHALEN: The PUB, the Public Utilities Board.

MS JONES: Okay. Are they reviewing just for the reduction amount or for

the other adjustments as well?

MS WHALEN: They are looking at the commercial, the marine and the

residential, and then they will give that data to Government Services. We will

look at it and see exactly what all the data concerns are that they have done

through consultations.

MS JONES: Okay. Did the policies that you guys put in place deter the

business activity of insurance companies in the Province at all?

MS WHALEN: No, we have not lost any insurances companies as a result of

our reforms.

MS JONES: Okay. I would also like to ask you about some of the fees. Last

year there were thirty-seven fees in your department that were increased. I

think it was a total of over $14 million accumulated in your department as a

result of it. I would just like to ask if there were any of those fees reduced

in this Budget, eliminated or increased again?

MS WHALEN: We did increase some fees the year before last, and we have

had some decrease in those fees this year. We have had reduction in the initial

review - rather than wait for the broader review, government proceeded with

items that we could identify immediately. It is what they call a quick hit

elimination.

Some of these fees, like the medical reassessment for the road tests, that

has been reduced. That was $100, it is down to zero right now. The Contractor

Registration Fee was $300, that has been reduced to $150 now. The Licence Fee

for Food Premises has no fee, that has been reduced from $250 to zero.

Certificate of Authority for Insurance Companies and Brokers, that has gone back

to zero, that was $25. Copy of Licence - Insurance Companies and Brokers was

$10, it is now zero. Copy of Licence - Trust Companies was $10, it is now zero.

Licensing Fee for Automobile Dealers was $50 to $100, it is now zero. Licencing

Fee for Salvage Dealers was $100 to $300, that is now zero. Late Filing Fees -

(Co-operatives), required to file annually, that is reduced to zero. Examination

Fee - Cooperatives, was $10, it is now zero. Restating of

Article Incorporation

of Co-operatives was $100, it is now zero.

MS JONES: Was the projected -

MS WHALEN: There are more, if you would like me to continue on with it?

MS JONES: Yes, sure. Keep going.

MS WHALEN: Copies of documents certified by the superintendent or deputy

superintendent, that was $20, it is now zero. Certification of Registration of

Co-operatives was $10, it is now zero. Certificate of Good Standing

(Co-operatives) was $10, it is now zero. Revival Fee for Non-profit Corporations

was $300, it is now zero. Filing of documents not specifically referenced in the

Corporations Act for non-profits was $10, it is now zero. Late Filing Fee for

Corporations was $10 to $50, it is now zero. Certificate of Corporate name

issued by the registrar under the Corporations Act was $10, it is now zero.

Application for certain exemptions under the Corporations Act was $25, it is now

zero. Notice of ceasing to carry on business under the Corporations Act was $10,

it is now zero.

CHAIR: I think she is finished.

MS JONES: You are done?

MS WHALEN: Yes.

MS JONES: Okay. You did not mention the driver's licence fees or the

motor vehicle registration fees, none of those have been reduced, have they?

MS WHALEN: No, because we took a step, this government did, to put that

money into the infrastructure of the roads. We put in a significant amount of

money this year of $142 million. So, that money is generated to go into the

infrastructure of the roads. Until we get the roads up to the par that it should

be, I do not think we will be looking at reducing that fee. But the government

has an overall fee review right now, so it is possible it could be looked at

there.

MS JONES: Who is doing that?

MS WHALEN: That is the Department of Finance.

CHAIR: It is actually being handled through -

MS WHALEN: Yes, its our Red Tape Reduction (inaudible).

CHAIR: Department of Business and the Red Tape Reduction Regulatory

Reform Commission.

MS JONES: Department of Business? I do not see any estimates scheduled

for them.

How much money is the department going to lose as a result of now reducing

those fees back?

MS WHALEN: I guess I could go back over them again, but in the case of

the medical re-assessment it was $10,000. In the case of the Contractor

Registration Fee it is $90,000. In the case of the Licence Fee for Food

Premises, $600,000.

MS JONES: Do you have a total amount there, minister?

MS WHALEN: I do not have it totalled up, no. I just have it broken down

by fees. If you want me to take a few minutes -

MS JONES: Can you table a copy of that for me?

MS WHALEN: Yes.

MS JONES: Okay.

CHAIR: She will table that later. That was the expectation I had, the

document would be tabled. You didn't want it right now, did you?

MS JONES: Yes.

CHAIR: Oh, you want it right now?

MS JONES: She can table it, yes. The (inaudible).

MS WHALEN: (Inaudible) thousand, that is what it totals up to, Mr. Chair.

MS JONES: Yes. I will just have a tabled copy, that is fine.

MS WHALEN: Okay.

CHAIR: So, we can just get a photocopy -

MS WHALEN: I will get a copy of that, yes.

MS JONES: The weigh scales; I know you guys made a decision to close the

weigh scales at Foxtrap and Port aux Basques back a year or so ago, and you said

tonight that you guys made a decision to put it back. It was not necessarily a

highway safety reason that you decided to put it back, but I have a question,

first of all, of why government made the decision to close them in the first

place and then, in a relatively short period of time, decided to reopen them. If

it wasn't a safety concern, it leaves me very puzzled as to why you took the

action in the first place and now you are taking this action.

MS WHALEN: Well, the reason that we made it in the first place, it was

the fiscal situation that we found ourselves in when we came into government. At

that time it was a necessary measure to take. Since that time I have had some

discussions with the former Mayor of Port aux Basques, and the Clerk and I spoke

to some officials and people there. Actually, I spoke to some MHAs as well who

were concerned about the infrastructure of the roads. We have since turned a

corner right now and we are in a better position to be able to reopen those

weigh scales.

MS JONES: Do you agree, as a result of closing those particular weigh

scales, that there has been a cost to government just in terms of the damages on

our highways as a result of that action?

MS WHALEN: Well, I do not think in this short period of time that they

have been closed - you know, there has been no evidence that the road safety was

compromised.

MS JONES: When are they going to reopen?

MS WHALEN: They will be up and running this summer. Five positions we

have to fill right now and we have to do some, I guess, maintenance on the

scales because they were not in operation a year before we came into government.

Port aux Basques' scale was not operating out there. They were inoperable. We

have to repair the scales and get maintenance done on it before we can reopen,

so we expect that early this summer they will be open.

MS JONES: So, you figure by June?

MS WHALEN: I would think so.

MS JONES: I notice there wasn't any money in the Budget for any

increase to assistance for the St. Lawrence miners - the widows. I know that is

a fund that was set up by government to give them assistance. There is no doubt,

many of these women are in dire need of additional income. I guess I am just

wondering, you know, there were increases in certain parts of the Budget for

low-income families, and people who are dependent upon government income, I

suppose, like social assistance and so on, so I am just wondering why there were

no increases for that particular group.

MS DUNPHY: I am not particularly familiar with the legislation that

prescribes the amount of benefits that would be received, but I expect it is a

standard amount that would have been negotiated at some point in time, and that

is the amount that would have been allotted for each of these individuals. It is

an amount that ranges from about $36 to $56 per person a month. It is a modest

amount, and I think there are about 115 of those recipients still on the list to

receive some sort of support.

CHAIR: If I could, could I just ask that you identify yourself, just so

the recording people know?

MS DUNPHY: Yes, Kim Dunphy.

CHAIR: Your position as well, please.

MS DUNPHY: Kim Dunphy, Assistant Deputy Minister.

We can look into that piece of legislation for you, to determine how the fee

structure is established, or the benefit structure is established.

MS JONES: I didn't hear what you said. What did you say? What did you

just say, the last thing you said?

MS DUNPHY: I said, we can look into your question a little further in

terms of how the benefits or the compensation is established for these

particular individuals.

MS JONES: Yes, I would like to know, because there wasn't anything in

the Budget for them, and I know that many of them have had a difficult time. I

mean, they raised their children as single mothers, basically, as widows. I know

they receive a very low wage, and it has been an issue for some time. I was a

little bit surprised when there wasn't anything there.

MS DUNPHY: If I may, as long as I have been with the Department of Labour,

that amount has been the same. Again, I am not sure of the background as to how

it has been established but we definitely will look into that for you.

MS JONES: You can get the information for me, but I think it is more of a

political question at this point. I guess I would like to ask the minister if it

is a priority for her government, for her department, because I think - and you

can correct me if I am wrong - these families right now are living at about a

social assistance rate or maybe even a little bit lower.

MS WHALEN: I know that we have, for widows, made some improvements there

with, I think, fifty-three widows, in this government. We are always looking at

where we can improve living conditions for people.

I certainly will take that under advisement and bring it back to the Cabinet

table to talk about this issue.

MS JONES: I think that needs to be done, because I do not think there is

any clause in the agreement that allows for it to increase on a regular basis or

anything like that. I think it is really a political decision as to whether the

rates are increased or whether they are not.

MS WHALEN: I certainly will take it back to my colleagues, to discuss if

there is anything we can do there in the next Budget, I guess, coming up.

MS JONES: Okay.

I have to ask another question, too. Back last year, there was an issue with

veterans who had licence plates on their vehicles. It was war veterans. I know

that they were being stopped by the RCMP and that their plates were being

removed. At the time, the minister, you stated that you were going to look into

this and that you were going to make a decision. I was wondering if you could

clarify for me what action was taken, if any, if these people are still being

stopped, and if their licence plates are still being removed?

MS KELLAND: We did look at that after the session last year and, as far

as my people were aware, we have not had any reports of people being stopped so

we were not quite sure where the problem was. What I know now is that the

veterans' licence plates are issued on a fairly regular basis, and that is as

much as I could find at the time.

If you are aware of specific circumstances we can certainly examine that, but

when I went back to our Motor Registration people they did not seem to have

identified any problem with the plates themselves.

MS JONES: There was some trouble, because they were making reports to my

colleague's office at the time. I know he raised the issue here. The response,

at that time, was that it would be looked into, but we never did get a response

back from the department. That is why I wanted to know what the status of it

was.

MS KELLAND: I think, certainly, if you have any specific incidents that

we could investigate, that would be (inaudible).

MS JONES: Well, they were being stopped and their licence plates were

being taken. Is it still being done? Is it not being done? Has it stopped?

MS KELLAND: As far as I know, it is not.

MS JONES: Have you authorized it through Motor Vehicle Registration? Have

you not authorized it?

MS KELLAND: As far as I know, the veterans' licence plates are being

issued and they are not being seized. Again, if I had a specific incident, we

could investigate.

MS JONES: Are they being issued by Motor Vehicle Registration?

MS KELLAND: They are.

MS JONES: Okay.

Maybe you could check on that and let me know?

MS KELLAND: Surely, yes.

MS JONES: Or you could let my colleague know, probably.

CHAIR: Just for the record, your colleague, you mean Mr. Sweeney?

MS JONES: Yes, I am just filling in for him.

CHAIR: I realize that; I just wanted to be sure.

MS JONES: I am going to just pass it for a few minutes now, and someone

else can have a turn.

CHAIR: Fair enough.

Mr. Oram?

MR. ORAM: No questions.

CHAIR: Mr. Andersen?

MR. ANDERSEN: Thank you.

Minister, I guess, not being the critic for this department - usually, I

guess, when we go through these Estimates, people ask questions as it relates to

their district. I am, I guess, in a unique position now that, out of the six

communities that I represent, one has a federal status of a reserve. Of course,

the other five Inuit communities now have their own self-government. I know that

a lot of the fees and a lot of the structure of how people are billed is going

to be, over a period of time, built into this new government. I guess, at this

time, it is not a question of asking questions, but I guess through the year, as

questions arise, how the structures will be implemented, then certainly I will

be contacting your office.

I know that this past weekend I was into the capital village - I can't say

city - of Nunatsiavut, which is Hopedale, and there were quite a number of

questions being directed my way as to how these fees will be implemented, who is

going to be charged, and who is going to be responsible. I guess, as time goes

on, as their members contact me or your department, we will deal with these

questions as they arise.

Again, I guess I would say to you that I hope that you treat - and I am sure

you will - the questions that will come from these people, because they now have

their own self-government. In many cases, instead of going through the MHA for a

lot of things, other than to probably help put out a few fires, no doubt they

will be dealing government to government. I ask that you and your staff, in

every appropriate way, make changes that are going to be required of your

department with this new government, make it a priority and I am sure you will

give me your full co-operation.

That being said, I would like to thank you and your staff in advance because

I am sure that you will provide the necessary questions and answers that they

will require over the next number of years. Who knows, minister, before too long

I may be sitting on that government.

CHAIR: I was wondering if you were going to get to that point.

MS WHALEN: Yes, we would want to see self-government, and we will look

forward to working with you on any issues that you may have that we can help.

MR. ANDERSEN: That is quite all right.

CHAIR: Mr. Langdon.

MR. LANGDON: First, for clarification. The two weigh scales offices that

are going to be open at Foxtrap and Port aux Basques, after the initial work

that has to be done to put them back into operation again, are they going to be

operating full-time, 24-7, like you would have at Goobies or Pynns Brook or

whatever?

MS WHALEN: In Port aux Basques, it is going to be tied to the ferry

schedule.

MR. LANGDON: Where? In Port aux Basques?

MS WHALEN: Yes, in Port aux Basques. In Foxtrap, it will be on a

part-time random basis.

MR. LANGDON: Okay. So, the scales itself at Foxtrap or the building that

is there, when you say at random, are they going to then have a mobile unit

where they can check people?

MS WHALEN: Yes. There will also be the portables there as well, but this

way it will help to improve the enforcement there with the -

MR. LANGDON: Yes, but what you are saying is that it will not be on a

24-7, seven days?

MS WHALEN: No, it will not be 24-7. It will be open on different shifts.

MR. LANGDON: Yes, I understand. That is fine. Port aux Basques, I can see

where that is going to be fine because you are going to tie it to the ferry

service. Once you have that, you have caught all the traffic anyway. So that

will take care of that. It was just a matter of personal clarification. When

Yvonne was asking the question I did not hear that, so I had to check that out.

The other thing - you probably do not have it on hand but you might be able

to get it. You were saying that practically for the total amount of fees that

were charged to the public in whatever category they might be, then whatever

that total would be, the total of all these fees was then given, say, to the

Department of Finance for government to be able to use for the Provincial Roads

Program. Can you tell me how much would have been raised in 2005-2006 and what

you anticipate in 2006-2007 from all of these fees?

MS WHALEN: Is it from Motor Registration you are talking about?

MR. LANGDON: Yes.

MS WHALEN: It is $9.6 million.

MR. LANGDON: It is $9.6 million for registration fees for -

MS WHALEN: Yes.

MR. LANGDON: That is for private and commercial vehicles?

MS WHALEN: That is for the increase of $180 we are talking about here.

MR. LANGDON: Pardon?

MS WHALEN: That is for the fee of $180 we are talking about here that was

increased.

MR. LANGDON: Yes, I was thinking about, like, for commercial, too.

I just want to say to you, there was a time when I was over where the

minister is and rather than passing all the information along, which would help

the minister - then all you have to do is identify yourself, and I am sure the

minister would not mind giving the information. It is easier for her and

probably easier for you. We are not making it difficult for the minister. We are

trying to make it easier. I do not think Ms MacDonald has been here before. That

is the whole idea, so they can answer that.

So, we are saying then, for the private vehicles, it is about - what was it,

$18 million?

OFFICIAL: It is $9.6 million, where it went from $140 to $180. That was

for the vehicle registration.

MR. LANGDON: Private, yes. What about for commercial registrations, do

you have that?

OFFICIAL: No, I do not have that on hand. I could provide that.

MR. LANGDON: That is okay. I would not expect you to have all the numbers

but if you could get it, then I would appreciate that.

On a couple of line questions, if you do not mind. In 1.2.01, Executive

Support under Professional Services there. Like 1.2.01.05; you had budgeted

$35,000 spent, the revised budget was $10,000 and this year it is $185,000. I am

wondering if you can give me the reason why that would have happened?

CHAIR: It is page 39 of our book. I am not sure if you have the same

page.

MS WHALEN: Thirty-nine?

MR. LANGDON: Under Government Services, yes.

CHAIR: 1.2.01.05.

MR. LANGDON: 1.2.01.05.

MS WHALEN: Yes. The Professional Services increased as the result of a

consultant who was hired to perform a comprehensive workload analysis, $150,000,

and as the second phase of the role and mandate review.

MR. LANGDON: Was it for workload, you said?

MS WHALEN: Yes, a workload analysis.

MR. LANGDON: Workload analysis. That's for government?

MS WHALEN: It is for Government Services, yes.

MS JONES: Was that an analysis of the employees' workload?

MS WHALEN: Yes, the resources that we have there.

MS JONES: Okay.

MS WHALEN: I have to look at it and determine what kind of resources that

we will need to carry out the services that we are providing.

MR. LANGDON: Executive Support, 1.2.01. Salaries have been decreased by

about $114,500. I was wondering if there have been any layoffs? What would be

the difference for that?

MS WHALEN: No, there has not been any layoffs in the Department of

Government Services.

MR. LANGDON: All right, so where would the decrease have been?

MS MACDONALD: Are you looking at -

MR. LANGDON: 1.2.01.

CHAIR: He is looking at the budget versus the revised amount.

MR. LANGDON: Executive Support.

MS WHALEN: Okay. The salary decrease reflects the elimination of funding

for the role and mandate review. The salary decrease reflects the relocation of

approved information technology funding to the Office of the Chief Information

Officer and a temporary information technology position for the development and

maintenance of a Web site, and less money is required for the role and the

mandate review.

MR. LANGDON: Okay.

Also, in 1.2.02 Administrative Support; you had budgeted for $530,000 for

Property, Furnishings and Equipment. It was revised to $728,000 and this year it

is $299,000.

MS WHALEN: The Property, Furnishings and Equipment increase reflects the

additional equipment being acquired by the printing and micrographics service

division. This will make their division more efficient and effective, since

their old equipment was becoming obsolete. The following equipment was

purchased: a collator, a signature booklet maker and two colour printing press.

In addition, twenty-five vehicles were added to our fleet of eight replacements,

seventeen additional vehicles, and these additional vehicles were provided to

staff who previously travelled in excess of 25,000 kilometres in their own

private vehicles. This will result in operational savings.

MR. LANGDON: In 3.1.01 Administration, again. Salaries for Administration

was budgeted for $1.1 million and then it is down to $918,000, and this year it

is $857,000. What has changed there?

MS WHALEN: The salary cost decrease reflects less required for the ATV

legislation initiative.

MS JONES: Say that again?

MS WHALEN: The salary cost decrease reflects less required for the ATV

legislation initiative that we did.

MS JONES: So, you laid some people off?

MS WHALEN: No, we did not lay anybody off.

MS JONES: Okay.

Well, I don't understand. The budget is down $800,000.

MS MACDONALD: Originally, we had it budgeted last year for about $945,000

for an ATV legislation initiative in terms of a number of things that we thought

we might do, but we did not do those, so the people were not hired, and now our

budget reflects that change.

MS JONES: Okay.

MR. LANGDON: I guess, then, 3.1.02., under Driver Examinations and Weigh

Scale Operations, you have an increase in Transportation and Communications

budgeted last year from $94,000 revised to $84,000 and it says $103,000. What

would be the reason for that increase?

MS WHALEN: The expenditure increase reflects the restoration of the weigh

scales in Port aux Basques and Foxtrap.

MR. LANGDON: I figured.

I am going to leave these line by line. Probably Yvonne or Wally might be

able to pick up a few more. There are not many of them.

I just want to go back to the insurance thing briefly.

MS WHALEN: Sure.

MR. LANGDON: I know that the legislation, when it was introduced and so

on, you were talking about a 15 per cent decrease in premiums to the general

public. That 15 per cent decrease was not on the total package that a person

would have when he purchased insurance from Munn's, Anthony's, or whatever

the case might be. I think that was 15 per cent on collision, probably

comprehensive and medical benefits, in that sense, and not the PLPD coverage

which is the most expensive.

Do you have any idea of how much that would average out to a person like me,

who probably has a clean driving record and has a Chevrolet or a Pontiac car,

two or three years old, with full coverage? What would that mean to me in terms

of a decrease or savings to me as a driver, as the public?

MR. MORRIS: For an average driver, say, on the Avalon Peninsula, there

was a 9 per cent mandated reduction on public liability. When you take into

account all the other coverages that you mentioned - comprehensive, collision

and so on - it should average around 15 per cent. I would say the average driver

is probably spending around $1,500 to $2,000, in that range, per year for total

coverage on the Avalon, so you are talking roughly 15 per cent of that would

probably be around a couple of hundred dollars per year, in that range. The

reduction should have been somewhere around there, $150 to $200, I would say,

for an average person.

MR. LANGDON: If it was a $1,500 policy, 15 per cent of that would be

about $225.

MR. MORRIS: That is right.

MR. LANGDON: I read recently about what the reductions were for the

general public in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia. They, of course, had the cap

for the public liability rather than what we did here. We decided to have a

higher deductible rather than a cap. The amount of savings to the motoring

public in New Brunswick more than tripled, I think it was, what it was here - or

more than doubled, anyhow - and Nova Scotia was pretty much the same thing.

I am wondering, has the department looked at what it is in New Brunswick, and

looked at what it is in Nova Scotia, as a part of your insurance review for

residential, commercial, and the other part? Have you had any direction from

government so that you might be able to take a look at, again as a part of that

review, the cap process?

MR. MORRIS: On the auto side of it, we have looked at the reductions in

Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, and we have tracked them back for the last five

years, actually, and the reductions up to the latest figures we had, which were

2004, we were about the same as Nova Scotia. New Brunswick had a little more

reduction up to that date.

On the home owner, commercial and marine insurance, that aspect of it, the

rates there are not regulated, those insurance coverages are not, as far as

rates go, like auto insurance is. We have no data on what the rates are there

compared to our own Province and, to my knowledge, they have not done anything

in those provinces as far as reviewing those types of coverages.

We asked the Public Utilities Board to do a review of those coverages on all

aspects, not only rates as to our people being provided adequate coverage, or,

are they being treated fairly for underwriting and those types of things? We

would hope to get that report this spring to see what they have come up with.

There was an Atlantic Task Force spearheaded by the Insurance Bureau of

Canada, and all of the provinces' insurance superintendent's offices had

someone attend those as observers. That was focused mainly on commercial

insurance, particularly the non-profit sector, where there seemed to be the

biggest problem of non-profits providing, or not being able to obtain insurance

at reasonable rates. I think that report is out. It did not come up with any

sort of concrete recommendations, except to say that these organizations and

companies need to put in place risk prevention factors, to make sure that they

are providing proper safety measures so they do not have accidents, and those

sorts of things, and that everyone should review their procedures to make sure

they get the best rate possible, but there is no concrete recommendations as to

what can be done to bring rates down per se. We will wait for the PUB to finish

their report, because they have also reviewed this Atlantic report to see if

they can come up with any suggestions as to how they can help these people; but

I will say the problems in that respect, as far as commercial insurance in

particular, have gone down considerably over the last few years. After the 2001

disaster 9-11, commercial insurance became pretty hard to get and rates went up,

but the market has improved considerably and we have not received very many

complaints from commercial enterprises having difficulty in getting insurance,

and I think the rates have come down somewhat since then.

MR. LANGDON: Would it be possible for you to supply us, as a Committee,

or me, as an individual, a copy of the review that you have done that compared

our rates to those of Nova Scotia and New Brunswick? Because what I had read

contradicts directly what you are saying. I am not saying that what you are

giving me is false information. I would not even suggest that in the slightest,

but at least for my own personal satisfaction, after having read what I have

read, and then being able to counter what I have read by the statistics or

information that you have given from the department, then you will have

something that you can go back at when you are presented with both sides of the

equation. I would appreciate it if you could get that.

MR. MORRIS: Yes, I certainly can. The figures that I have were actually

taken from the report put out by the Insurance Bureau of Canada. Every year they

do a report on the premiums in each jurisdiction. I did the calculation for the

last five years, and I can certainly get you a copy of that.

MR. LANGDON: I do not want to carry it any further, just for a matter of

clarification.

MR. MORRIS: Sure.

MR. LANGDON: In the

article that I read, I thought they said that the

Newfoundland motoring public, on an average, saw a decrease of about 17 per

cent. Nova Scotia was in the high twenties or low thirties, and New Brunswick

was 43 per cent. So, if you have information that could counter that for me, I

would like to have it and to see it.

MR. MORRIS: Sure, and the figures I have would be up to 2004. I do not

have 2005 figures available yet. They are not available.

MR. LANGDON: Okay. So, you do not have 2005?

MR. MORRIS: Not 2005. No, they are not published yet.

MR. LANGDON: That's all right. That's fair enough. If you could get

that I would appreciate it.

MR. MORRIS: Yes, certainly.

CHAIR: Mr. Langdon, you are done?

MR. LANGDON: I am done for now, yes.

CHAIR: Okay.

Mr. Forsey?

MR. FORSEY: No, thank you.

CHAIR: Ms Marshall?

MS E. MARSHALL: No, I have no questions.

CHAIR: Mr. Oram?

MR. ORAM: No, not a thing. Everything is good, perfect.

MS JONES: Wally has one more question and then I will finish mine.

CHAIR: Okay.

Mr. Andersen, you are being given the floor by your colleague.

MR. ANDERSEN: She is very kind.

Minister, one question that has come quite a bit, and I raised it last year,

and that is the people on the North Coast of Labrador, a lot of them own

vehicles but yet they have to pay the full cost for a sticker. I think it is

$180 a year. They can only use their vehicles for about three or four months of

the year. Last year I asked if there was something that could be done and you

and your department advised me that it would be looked in to.

A licence is different, because sometimes they will fly out from the North

Coast communities to Goose Bay or St. John's and they need their driver's

licence, but for most of these people their vehicles stay in these isolated

communities. I asked last year if you would look at something for these people -

charging them a set fee where they can only utilize their vehicles for three or

four months of the year. I did not receive a reply back. Last year you said you

would look into it. So I am posing the same question again.

MS WHALEN: Are you looking for a prorated fee? Is that what you are

saying?

MR. ANDERSEN: Yes.

MS WHALEN: Donna, can you answer that?

MS KELLAND: We did look at that issue, and one of the difficulties is in

actually being able to define various communities around the Province where

people might use their vehicles seasonally, but there is an option for people to

actually have a seasonal fee for a licence. They have to turn in their licence

plates to do that but they can get a licence for a short period of time; for

example, three months or six months. So, people can avail of that option, but it

does involve turning in their licence plates and then getting them again the

following year. Otherwise, there is not much we can do, just identifying given

communities where people might only use their vehicles for part-time. That was

the conclusion that we did come to. So, there is that option.

MR. ANDERSEN: Minister, I think it would be very easy to find out as to

what communities cannot use their vehicles except for just in the summer months.

Particularly on the North Coast of Labrador, you know the roads are not plowed.

The only place where people use vehicles is on the reservation of Natuashish,

but in the five Inuit communities the roads are not plowed. Again, we think it

is quite unfair that these people have to go out there and pay $180 every year

to renew their licence. Transportation and Works has an employee who is in each

community full-time because they maintain the airstrip in the wintertime. I

think between your department and Transportation and Works, that this person who

works at the airstrip could certainly verify to you and your department as to

what vehicles are parked in these isolated communities for six to eight months

of the year.

MS WHALEN: If you would be kind enough to supply me with the information,

the communities that you are talking about, I certainly will look into that for

you, to see if there is any action I can take on your behalf.

MR. ANDERSEN: Okay. Thank you.

CHAIR: Ms Jones?

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Under 3.1.02 - my colleague asked a question, that is Driver Examinations and

Weigh Scale Operations. There was an increase of $300,000 in Salaries there. Is

that for the five new positions that you are going to hire for the weigh scales?

MS WHALEN: Yes, there are salary increases there for $86,000.

MS JONES: Yes. None of that is for driver examiners though, is it?

MS WHALEN: No, that is for the positions for the weigh scales.

MS JONES: Okay.

Did you lay off any driver examiners or cut any positions?

MS WHALEN: No, they fed into the system elsewhere. They had to do some

bumping and went into the system elsewhere.

MS JONES: Okay, but are there fewer people now doing driver examinations

in the Province?

MS WHALEN: No, we have not lost any of our driver examiners this year. We

have not had any cuts this year.

MS JONES: Because I have heard some complaints. I do not know if they

have changed the way they do their work or what, but one that comes right to

mind is in the Placentia area where there used to be a driver examiner come in

there, like one day out of a month or week, or whatever the case may be. There

have been others. I cannot remember the exact communities now, but I know that I

have talked to people - Burgeo was another one of them - where they now have to

go out to a particular area to do the examination. Can you tell me why that is?

MS WHALEN: We did, the year before last, cut back on the driver examiner's

stations. Placentia was one of them, that if you had to be within two hours, you

drive two hours to - I forget the station - the site for Placentia.

MS KELLAND: I think Harbour Grace would be the nearest site for Placentia

now.

MS WHALEN: We have actually revisited the driver examiners and we are

going to open Burgeo again because there is some hardship there for the people

down on the coast who have had to go out to Stephenville and stay overnight. So,

we have reversed that decision and we are going to be putting a driver examiner

back into Burgeo.

MS JONES: Yes.

MS WHALEN: It will not be a position. He is going to go there and do the

examining.

MS JONES: There is one on the Northern Peninsula too, is there? I do not

remember what they all were now - I am sure if my colleague was here he would -

but there were a number of locations. It was also my understanding that the

driver examiners did not have a problem with going into these communities and

doing the work, but it was rather a government policy that forbid them to do it

any longer.

MS WHALEN: Well, it was one of the cost-cutting measures that we

undertook when we came to government for the fiscal situation. We had twenty

sites around the Province. One of the guidelines we had was you drive two hours

to a station. We had some lobbying from the Mayor of Burgeo and he explained the

situation where people at the coast had to come out and stay overnight in

Stephenville. We have since revisited that and we are going to be sending a

driver examiner back into Burgeo to do the driver exams again.

MS JONES: Okay. Are you re-examining any of the other locations?

MS WHALEN: Right now I have looked at a couple of locations but I have

not revisited all the sites that we had closed down. That was like $100,000

savings to government at that time.

MS JONES: They had good travel status.

Under

section 3.1.03, Licence and Registration Processing, the salaries have

increased by $60,000. Was there some new hiring in that department?

MS WHALEN: Yes, that salary increase reflects the negotiated and the step

increases for the people who occupy the positions.

MS JONES: Okay. So, there is no new position?

MS WHALEN: No.

MS JONES: The Purchased Services are up by $300,000. They are double of

last year actually.

MS WHALEN: The Purchased Services increase reflects the increased volume

of customers using online Web-based credit card services and the online

Web-based debit card service.

MS JONES: Okay. That is mostly for motor vehicle, I guess, is it?

MS WHALEN: Yes, and Registry of Deeds, we have some online as well. That

is MRD only.

MS JONES: Again, under 3.1.04, which would be the National Safety Code,

there is an $80,000 increase in Salaries. I guess that is step increases as

well?

MS WHALEN: Yes, that salary increase reflects the negotiated and the step

increases, too.

MS JONES: Okay. Under 3.3.01, Vital Statistics -

MS WHALEN: What is that again? Three point what?

MS JONES: 3.3.01. Again, there is a $50,000 increase. Is that just step

increases and wage increases?

MS WHALEN: Yes, some of that salary increase reflects the severance and

the redundancy, and the vacation pay due to the retirements.

MS JONES: Okay. How many people retired in your department in the last

year?

MS WHALEN: I do not have that number available right now.

MS JONES: Can you get it for us?

MS WHALEN: Sure.

MS JONES: Can you also tell us how much money was paid out in severance

and -

MS WHALEN: I will have to get that for you. I do not have it available

tonight.

MS JONES: Okay.

Under Vital Statistics; this is an area that, as an MHA, I have a lot of

dealings with, I guess, in one way or another. I have a district that is a long

ways away from St. John's, and it seems like I have my staff half the time

running back and forth to Vital Statistics picking up birth certificates, social

insurance cards, some other kind of certificates, going back looking for stuff.

Is there a way that you can have a better system that people can use in the

rural areas? Because it is very time consuming and we do stuff for people almost

on a weekly basis through Vital Statistics.

MS WHALEN: Okay, I will get my assistant deputy minister to answer that.

MS KELLAND: We do have vital statistics services in certain of our

regional offices. For more remote locations or some of the other communities, we

do either a mail service - in cases of emergency, we can look at courier

services and things like that, but normally we would do those things by mail and

through the nearest office.

Vital statistics is a little bit of a special case where there are a number

of security issues, particularly around the security of the birth certificate

itself because those are personal identity documents. So we are a little more

restricted in where we can actually have printing of those services, due to some

of those security requirements. We can certainly look at particular areas if

there are issues and see if we can help streamline the service.

MS JONES: Unfortunately, I cannot give you all the specific details like

I wish I could. I know that we have situations where you would think it would be

simple for someone to make a phone call and have this sent out to them or be

able to get it in some other way. What we are having to do, my staff, is going

down there, picking things up, bringing it back and couriering' it to

Labrador so that people have the information that they need in a timely manner.

It has been a real nuisance and I can get more details from my office -

MS KELLAND: If you would, yes.

MS JONES: - in terms of the kind of cases it is, but it happens a lot. I

do not know if there is a code that people can get so that when they need

information regarding themselves they can use this code to access it or

something for security reasons, but there has to be a simpler way than it is

right now. I am sure there are other MHAs who have to do the same thing, but I

know our office does it on a fairly regular basis. Perhaps the word is out that

we do this kind of service, I do not know, but it is a bit of a hassle.

The Queen's Printer, 3.3.02. The salary there has been cut by $30,000. I am

just wondering why that is?

MS WHALEN: The salary decrease reflects the redistribution of salary

positions to the printing and the micrographic services.

MS JONES: Okay. So, you moved it from the Queen's Printer heading to

the Printing And Micrographic Services?

MS WHALEN: Yes.

MS JONES: Okay, that is why there is a $30,000 increase there.

MS WHALEN: Decrease.

MS JONES: Yes, an increase in the other one I mean.

They are all in the one place though, aren't they? They are all in the one

office?

MS WHALEN: Printing is in one location, yes.

MS JONES: Under 4.1.02., Occupational Health and Safety Inspections,

there was a salary increase of $140,000.

MS WHALEN: That salary increase was due to the redistribution of salaries

from the Occupational Health and Safety standards and the regulatory review, and

the negotiated salary and step increases, having a full staff complement.

MS JONES: Okay.

MR. LANGDON: Minister - or assistant deputy minister, Kim, could probably

answer this question. I am told when the people who were there in Occupational

Health and Safety, some of the guys, most of them have probably left the

department and gone into private industry or private business and so on. I am

wondering, has there been any attempt - say by your department, the minister's

department - to probably reconfigure these salaries and then give these

Occupational Health and Safety Inspectors a higher level of salary? I know we

will never be able to compete with the Terra Novas or Huskies or whatever, but

has that happened or not happened?

MS DUNPHY: We have lost a couple of positions to Alberta, but most of

those positions have not been people who have been with the government a long

time, so they do not have a lot vested in terms of time and pension and that

sort of stuff. We also have a lot of people who are very highly qualified but

yet choose to stay with government despite being courted by private industry.

One of the ways we do that is by encouraging professional development and doing

things other than salary related that improves their job, their work

performance, gives them an opportunity to develop themselves, get certification,

professional standards. That has offset the drain from the department. So we

really have not lost a lot of positions to private industry.

MS JONES: Minister, you also handle all the regulations and licensing for

funeral homes, don't you?

MS WHALEN: Yes.

MS JONES: Can you tell me if they are all conforming to the licence

regulations, especially the ones in Gambo and Glovertown?

MS WHALEN: Yes, they are all conforming to the best of my knowledge.

MS JONES: Mr. Chairman, I have no other questions. My colleagues are all

finished. I would just like to thank the minister and thank Sheree and all the

officials for being here this evening and giving us their time and their

responses.

CHAIR: Thank you.

I have just a couple of housekeeping items, if I could.

For the Committee members, we have the minutes from our meeting of yesterday

morning. I would like a motion to adopt those.

MR. FORSEY: So moved.

CHAIR: Mr. Forsey.

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: Contra-minded.

Carried.

On motion, minutes adopted as circulated.

CHAIR: We need to read the headings.

CLERK: 1.1.01 to 5.1.01 inclusive.

CHAIR: 1.1.01 to 5.1.01 inclusive carried.

So moved by Mr. Andersen.

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: Contra-minded.

Carried.

On motion, subheads 1.1.01 through 5.1.01 carried.

On motion, Department of Government Services, total heads, carried.

CHAIR: Our next committee meeting is next Monday morning. Make sure you

change your schedules or add that to your schedules because it was not on the

original schedule.

MR. LANGDON: Shawn, can I ask you a question? I thought before that the

Department of Finance was done in the House?

CHAIR: No, apparently not.

MR. LANGDON: Okay.

MS JONES: That is the Finance Estimates, is it?

CHAIR: The

schedule I have says, Finance and Public Service Commission.

That is all it says.

Thank you, minister. Thank you staff. I appreciate your time.

MR. FORSEY: Nine-thirty, sir, you said?

CHAIR: Nine o'clock next Monday morning. You have to set your alarm a

little bit earlier, Clayton.

On motion, Committee adjourned.