VOL. 3 THIRD SESSION OF THE THIRTY-NINTH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEw70UNDLAND PRELIMINARY UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PERIOD: NO. 7 3:00 P.M. - 6: P.M. WEDNESDAY, MARCH 21, 1984

March 21, 1984 The House met at 3:00 P.M. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Tape No. 221 Order, please! STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS: MR. SPEAKER: The han. Minister of Fisheries. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! NM - 1 MR. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker, I want to make an oral statement to the House. As a result of this government's firm commitment to the rural parts of our Province and to the inshore fishery of our Province, I am pleased to announce that the administration has now put in place a new financing package for the Fogo Island Co-op to the tune of $1 million, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MORGAN: A $1 million government guarantee which will ensure, Mr. Speaker - MR. NEARY: The han. member for Fogo, what a member! MR. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker, please, could I have protection from the Chair? - Mr. Speaker, which will ensure the future of the 500 plant workers working in five plants on Fogo Island, and will also ensure that the 850 fishermen on Fogo Island will have markets for their product this year and future years. And this morning I travelled to Fogo Island, accompanied by my colleague, the Minister of Transportation (Mr.

Dawe), and we met with all the councils on the Island and the Development Association and the Co-op. In fact, they were very pleased with the information and announcements from both ministers, on behalf of the administration, on the matter involving fisheries and the matter involving the 601

t-tarch 21, 1984 Tape No . 221 NM - 2 MR . MORGAN: ne\v ferry service to the Is land. So I can speak on behalf of my colleague, that the information and the news that we gave the people of Fogo Island this morning, through their organizations, is indeed a firm commitment of this administration' s policy and belief that we do and can and will have a viable rural Newfoundland . SOME HON . l-1EMBERS : MR . SPEAKER (Russell) : MR . TULK : Hear, hear ! The hon . membe r for Fogo. Mr .

Speaker, let m~ first of all, on behalf of all of Fogo Island I am sure, thank the minister for his sincerity in going to Fogo Island, in doing the right thing. I understand that the financing package is somewhere around $1 million for Fogo Island, in the form of gua ran tees . Fogo Island Co -op is a new method of development, a new mode of development for rura l Newfou ndland and deserves, indeed, the backing of wh atever gover~~ent is in power . Recently it has run into some financial difficulties, and I am plesed to see that the minister has done ~~e things that are right . Mr .

Speaker, I am beginning to believe that this government is out to get me and God bless them . 602

March 21,1984 Tape No. 222 ah-1 ORAL QUESTIONS MR.SPEAKER (Russell ) : Torngat Mountains. MR.WARREN: The hon. member for Mr. Speaker, in the absence of the Minister of Rural Development (Mr. Goudie) ,I would like to ask the Minister of Finance (Dr.Collins) a question as pertaining to yesterday's budget. Could the Minister of Finance advise if this government is still concerned about the fifty-two or fifty-five Rural Development Associations that are in place in this Province?

I understand on page 118 in the budget estimates there is no money whatsoever , absolutely no dollars whatsoever for Rural Development Associations. Is the minister now saying to the fifty-two or fifty-three Regional Development Associations in the Province,'Thank you very much. Good bye'? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Finance. DR.COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, we are concerned and we are not saying, 'Good bye.' MR.WARREN: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Torngat Mountains. MR.WARREN: The hon. member for Mr. Speaker, if the minister is concerned could the minister advise the hon.

House and the people of this Province how he expects the Rural Development Associations to continue on if this government is not planning to give them any finances? MR. SPEAKER: DR.COLLINS: The hon_ Minister of Finance. Mr. Speaker, these Associations, of course, have in the past been funded by the provincial government and the federal government. 603

March 21,1984 Tape No. 222 ah-2 DR. COLLINS: There was an agreement there, an arrangement, and we have been endeavouring to put in place a continuation of that agreement for quite a number of years. We have had difficulties doing it. There have been suggestions that the federal government want to change their mind on the type of funding they are going to do,but nothing had been finalized up to the time that the budget was brought down 1so we had no way of putting in something that we did not know about.

Now we understand that these Associations do have some monies available in their budgets, in their accounts and so on at the present time so they are continuing on in the meantime. We are still making joint efforts to come to an agreement with the federal government so that funding for those Associations can be continued. MR.WARREN: Speaker. MR.SPEAKER (RUSSELL): Mountains, a supplementary. MR.WARREN: A supplementary, Mr.

The han. member for Torngat I am sure the minister realizes, although he said that those Development Associations do have some money 1 and I assume the hon. minister that many of those Development Associations have very, very little money and they cannot continue very much further. I understand the Premier said sometime ago that if the federal government would not fund those development associations this government will. If the federal government does not come up real soon with dollars for the continuation of the Development Associations throughout this Province 1could the minister guarantee this hon.

House that this government will not see the Rural Development Associations fall in this Province? 604

March 21, 1984 MR. SPEAKER (Russell) Finance. DR. COLLINS: Tape 223 EC 1 The hon. the Minister of Mr. Speaker, to some extent the hon. member is asking me to answer a hypothetical question. I think that the hon. member knows that this government is very, very committed to rural development. The record is plain and straightforward on that. We are very concerned. We have made great efforts. We know the value of these associations. We think that the best way of assuring their future at the present time is to continue negotiating and pressing the federal government, and that is the route we are taking meantime.

We are always optimistic when we do these sorts of things. Obviously they do not all pan out the way we want them to pan out, but we push as hard as we can and we are not ready yet to give up on this one. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary, the hon. the Mr.

Speaker, here we have a situation where the budget is less than twenty-four hours old and we have an answer to questions asked by my colleague concerning financing for Rural Development Associations and the minister is waffling on the answer and no natter what happens, the budget is going to be thrown out~ P~. Speaker. MR. HODDER: By as much as $500,000. ~~. NEARY: Well, it would seem they have abandoned rural Newfoundland. They put in zero, zilch, a nil amount. Is it not customary to put in the budget a nominal sum?

If you do not know where you are going, if you are going to have an agreement or not, or if you have to finance it 100 per cent out of the provincial 605

March 21, 1984 Tape 223 EC - 2 M...~. NEARY: coffers, is it not customary to put in $100 nominal amount so that you can have at least something in the estimates? There is nothing in the estimates now, and that is what my colleague is concerned about. Why was there not something put in the estimates? If the government is committed to financing 100 per cent Regional Development Associations in the event that negotiations are not successful with the Government of Canada, should there not have been something put in the estimates?

Now, how many more instances, how many more examples are there in the estimates of the kind that was just raised by my colleague? ~~. SPEAKER (Russell): Order, please! Order, please! The hon. the Leader of the Opposition is entering the realm of debate. He was recognized on a supplementary question. The hon. the Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, I think there were a number of questions in there. I am not certain which one the hon. the Leader of the Opposition wants me to answer.

But all I will say is this, when the Leader of the Opposition brings down a budget, he can bring it down the way he wants to bring it down. The way I brought it down is the way our government wants to bring it down. We will do with our budget the best thing that we can do, within the means available to us, for the·people of Newfoundland, and I think the people of Newfoundland know that. As I have stated already, the best way of dealing with this thing is to press on with our negotiation with the federal government. We are doing that most vigourously.

We remain optimistic but we are going to try as hard as we can before we take a second-best alternative. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! 606

March 21, 1984 MR . NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Tape 223 EC - 3 A supplementary , Mr . Speaker. The bon . the Leader of the Opposition, a suppla~entary . MR . NEARY : Mr . Spea~er, I would thi~~ that the hon . gentleman would try to hide his stupidity instead of showing his complete incompetence over £iscal matters. Mr. Speaker, let me ask the hon. gentleman 607

March 21, 1984 Tape No. 224 MJ - l MR. NEARY: if it is the intention of the administration to live up to a commitment made by the Premier that Rural Development Associations would be funded 100 per cent by the provincial government if negotiations with the Government of Canada failed? A simple yes or no answer,that is all. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. the Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, if it is within human capability whatsoever we always live up to the commitments that the Premier makes. So I can assure the Leader of the Opposition (Mr.

Neary) at this time any commitment that the Premier makes he intends to keep and we, the Government of Newfoundland, will do everything we can to keep it for him also. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question to the hon. gentleman. Could the hon. gentleman tell us,because we are at a loss to know,why there was not something put in the estimates, zero, just a blank, two little dots? Could the hon. gentleman tell us if he has knowledge if there is new agreement or if there is going to be a new agreement?

Are negotiations being pursued vigorously at the moment or is this just 1you know 1 you pay your money and you take your chance? I mean, what is happening? It would look like the rural part of Newfoundland is being abandoned by this administration the way they have treated the Associations in the budget. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Hr .. Speaker, I have already answered that if it is a question. I said that we are negotiating flat­ out with the federal government to put in place the best 608

March 21, 1984 Tape No. 224 MJ - 2 DR. COLLINS: arrangement for the ~ural Development organizations in this Province. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary. l1R. SPEAKER (Russell): The han . the Leader of the Opposition,a supplementary. MR. NEARY: Could the hon . gentleman indicate to the House when we expect to get an agreemer.t? And obviously, Mr. Speaker, they must be expecting 100 per cent from the Government of Canada because they have not even allowed for the 10 per cent that they claimed all along they have been paying, which is a myth by the way, it is a fallacy. So how near are we to an agreement and \'lhen will the administration 609

March 21, 1984 Tape 225 PK - 1 MR. NEARY: reach the point when they have to go ask for a Lieutentant­ Governor's Warrant to supply funds to the Regional Develop­ ment Associations? MR. SPEAKER (Russe11 ): DR. COLLINS: The hon. Minister of Finance. Mr. Speaker, I am absolutely sure just as soon as an agreement is reached- if and . iwhen, and optimistically we will say when - when an arrangement is made there will be an announcement in this House. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Now, Mr. Speaker, just to change the subject for a moment.

We all know that the freeze on hospital budgets will be devastating to the smooth delivery of health care services in this Province. Let me ask the minister this. AN HCl\1 • l'lil\ffiER: \'f.~ did vlhat the royal cormdssion said . MR. HODDER: You did not do "lvhat the royal commission said. MR. NEARY: No, they did not , Mr. Speaker. The han. gentleman can hide behind that commission all he wants, but it is not going to work. He should have heard Dr. Hogan on CBC this morning, the President of the Hospital Association. MR. HICKEY: talking about. MR. NEARY: about. HR. WARREN: MR.

NEARY: He does not know what he is He does not know what he is talking You do, I suppose! Mr. Speaker, let me ask the minister if the administration gave any though~ to the chain reaction that they were going to set off by such drastic measures as putting a freeze on the budgets of hospitals and nursing homes? Or did they just rush head-on 610

March 21, :1984 Tape 225 PK - 2 MR. NEARY: into something out of desperation and ignore the plight of the sick and the dying in this Province? Let me ask the han. gentleman if there was any prior consultation with the Hospital Association or with the hospitals themselves,direct consultation,to find out what kind of a chain reaction his drastic measures would have on the delivery of health care in this Province? MR. SPEAKER (Russell): DR. COLLINS: The han. Minister of Finance. Mr. Speaker, in terms of a chain reaction,I presume what the hon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr.

Neary) is saying is will something happen in hospital after hospital and so on? I suspect there will be something like that happen in each hospital. That is what the royal commission said,that things should be altered in just about every hospital in this Province 1 that things should be changed to improve their efficiency. And the royal commission laid out many ways in which this might be done. Mr. Speaker, I think there is, intentionally or othenJise, a misconception when one says there is a freeze on hospital budgets and therefore the quality of patient care has to go down. The two are not 611

March 21, 1984 Tape No. 226 SD - l DR. COLLINS: synonymous in any way whatsoever. What the budget has done is to take care of the approximately 70 per cent of hospital costs which are related to salaries. That 70 per cent of hospitals are taken care of. The budget has got built into i~ the annualization of employees who came on halfway through last year, for instance; it has into it the annual increments that employees will get and so on and so forth. So if you look at the question of freeze, the only part of hospital budgets that are frozen are the 30 per cent which arenon-salary.

Now, as I mentioned, I do not know what proportion, but a very high proportion of the Royal Commission's 217 recommendations related to that very point, saying that there are many, many efficiencies that can be brought in, there are many, many cost-saving areas that can be looked at, and there is much, m~ch money to be saved in the non-salary part of hospital operations. And, for that very good reason, we feel that the budgets we have given to the hospitals are quite realistic.

Hospitals will have to do things to make sure that they stay on side, but that is the whole idea of the operation, that is the whole reason behind the exercise of. having a Royal Commission, just to identify those areas where changes have to be made so as to achieve satisfactory costs. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (Russell): of the Opposition. Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Supplementary, the hon. Leader MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, even a kindergarten student knows that in order for hospitals to deliver the standard of service that they are delivering at the present tim~ they would need an annual increase in their budget of at least 10 per cent to take care of inflation - MR. HODDER: At the very minimum. MR. NEARY: - a minimum of 10 per cent. So, Mr. Speaker, what this means is there is going to be a deterioration 612

March 21, 1984 Tape No . 226 so - 2 MR. NEARY: in the service provided by the hospitals throughout this Province . Could the hon. gentleman answer a specific question for me,if he knows,because obviously he did not answer my question about prior consultation \<lith the hospital boards and with_ the Newfaundland Hospital Association . Could the hon . gentleman tell the House how many beds will oe forced to close as a resu l t of this cruel and drastic measure taken by the adminis ·tration? MR. WARREN: Three hundred and fifty . MR . SPEAKER (:Russell) . : DR. COLLINS: The hon . Minister of Finance . Mr .

Speaker I the non. Leader of the Opposition GMr . Neary) really should r ead the report given to ,government in the middle of February oy the Royal Commission on Health. Costs ·. Tne Leader of the Opposition said that if you do riot give an increase , Because there is an inflationary factor in our economy ,therefore 1 negative things have to happe n. Now that is not true, that is totally untrue . If you increase your efficiency, 613

March 21, 1984 Tape No. 227 NM - 1 DR. COLLINS: if you increase your cost effectiveness, you can often, and in this case as we believe hospitals can, take care of the inflationary factor without an increase in overall budget. And that was the whole reason for putting in place a royal commission. And a royal commission clearly spelled it out that that in actual fact can occur. So what the hon. the Leader of the Opposition is saying is just nonsense. It is rubbish. It is untrue. It is not factual. He has not read the report. He does not know what he is talking about.

I would suggest that he go back and study the report, study the long list of recommendations that the royal commission brought in to show exactly how hospitals can get down their cost without requiring extra budgeting. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The han. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I read the royal commission report and I fully understand it, and I hear the message that is coming from the Hospital Association and from the administrators of the hospitals, I hear all of that, Mr. Speaker, and I heard Dr. Hogan this morning. And the hon. gentleman by the way, should know better.

MR. ~.fARSHALL: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The han. the President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: The han. gentleman is making a speech. This is about his fifth supplementary question. He is making a speech. MR. HODDER: No, this is a new question. MR. MARSHALL: That does not make any difference if he is making a speech. 614

March 21, 1984 Tape No. 227 NM - 2 MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : I did not understand it was a supplementary question but I certainly think the hon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) was entering into the realm of debate and I would request him to pose a question. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, obviously the hon. gentleman has no intention in this world of returning to his original profession. He would never be able to go back and face these people again, the cruel way that he has treated his former occupation. Now. Mr.

Speaker, let the hon. gentleman tell the House - since he cannot answer me on hospital beds, obviously there was no prior consultation -how many hospital workers will be laid off as a result of this cruel and callous policy of the administration there opposite? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition is implying by these questions that (

a) there will be closing of hospital beds, and (

b) that there will be staff layoffs. There is no fact behind all that at the present time. As a matter of fact,the hon. the Leader of the Opposition mentioned the Newfoundland Hospital Association. I heard that broadcast this morning also,and I thought that the Vice­ President of the Association answered in a very, very responsible fashion. She said, "We do not have the budget yet. We have to wait until we actually get each hospital budget in our hand before we can think through the 615

March 21, 1984 Tape No. 227 NM - 3 DR. COLLINS: implications." She did not jump to the conclusions that just because there is a freeze put on overall budgets that 616

March 2_1,1984 Tape No. 228 ah-1 DR.COLLINS: necessarily this has to happen or that has to happen, and certainly not the drastic things the hon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) suggested. MR.SPEAKER (Russell): au Port. MR.HODDER: The hon. member for Port I just wanted to ask the minister one question. The Royal Commission Report said that the Report should not be implemented piecemeal. And from the remarks of the minister and the remarks that I have heard, there is no doubt that some hospital beds will close. Last year there were 118 closed after restraint measures.

What I am asking the minister is how can he reconcile the fact that there is likely to be a number of cronic care hospital beds closed with the fact that the Royal Commission actually said, and this is why they said not to implement it piecemeal, that they could close 350 hospital beds but they should open 700 cronic care beds. Now my understanding is that nursing homes have been frozen as well. We know that our hospitals are full of people who should not be in that particular type of bed. How does the minister reconcile that with the fact that he has frozen both the nursing homes and the hospitals?

MR.HICKEY: homes. MR.NEARY: is building nursing homes - MR.HODDER: fact? MR. NEARY: 617 We are building nursing No, the federal government How does he reconcile that -out of CMHC funds.

March 21,1984 MR .HICKE'l: build them . MR.NEARY: No , you are not . MR .HICKEY : r<1R .NEARY: MR .SPEAKER (Russell): Finance . DR.COLLINS : Tape No . 228 ah -2 \'le are borrowing to No, you are not borrowing . Those are loans . They ar e CMHC funds . The hon . Minister of Mr . Speaker, the hon . member is jumping to a conclusion that is not warranted . He is saying , 'You are closing beds befo re you have opened cronic beds . ' I have not said we to~ere closing beds . The Hospital Association have not said they are closing beds . The hospital themselves have not said they are closing beds .

The Hospital As sociation said, 'We are going to wait until we get our specific budgets and the n we are go ing to have our plan of action put in place .' And the Royal Commis sio n very clearly spelled out the source of actions that the ho spitals can carry out without reflecting negatively at all on patient care or on the lev el of service . There are many 618

March 21, 1984 Tape No. 229 HJ - 1 DR. COLLINS: ways that the hospitals when they get their budgets can deal with them so that the drastic conclusions that the hoh. member is jumpin~ tc need not come about at all. HR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (Russell) Opposition. HR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. The hon. the Leader of the Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman obviously does not have the intestinal fortitude to come out man-fashion and say thereare going to be hospital beds closed and layoffs in nursing homes and in hospitals. He is going to force somebody else to do his dirty work. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The han. the Leader of the Opposition (Hr. Neary) is entering into the realm of debate and I ask him to pose a question. MR. NEARY: Hr. Speaker, in that masterpiece of deceit that we heard yesterday in this House,could the hon. gentleman tell the House if there was any prior consultation with municipalities, with the Newfoundland Federation of Mayors and Municipalities or the individual municipalities,before a decision was made to reduce grants to municipalities?

And what impact is this going to have on the budgets of municipalities throughout the Province that have already been prepared and submitted to the han. gentleman's colleague? MR. SPEAKER: DR. COLLINS: The han. the Minister of Finance. Mr. Speaker, as my colleagues have pointed out,there will be no impact whatsoever on this year's budgets for municipalities. The thing does not come in until their budget year starts for 1985. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Leader of the Opposition. 619

March 21, 1984 Tape No. 229 MJ - 2 t-!R . NEARY: Mr. Speaker, let me talk for a moment about the infamous convention center. ~tr . Speaker, there is $1 million allocated in the budget to wards a convention center, Is this the number one priority of this administration,to b~ild a convention center? Where will it . be built? Who is going to get the contrac t? Does this warrant top priority on the part of this administation? ~1R. SPEA.XER (Russe ll): The hon. the !-1inister of Finance. DR . COLLINS: Mr. Sp eak er, it is my understanding that the hon . the Minister for Develo9ment (~r .

Windsor) will be spel ling out the details of the im pleme ntation of many of the things that were mentioned in the budget that are the concern of his department and he will be doing that very, very shortly. One of the aspects of his exposition will be the convention center 1and I would suggest that the hon . the Leader of t~e Opposition (Mr. Neary) a\•Jait that and he will get all the details~ And if he pay s attention to what the hon . Minister for Development says and takes it in and digests it and thinks about it rationally,! am sure he will be ful ly satisfied that all the facts are made available to him .

MR. NEARY: ~-1r . Speaker . MR . SPEAKER: The hon . the Leader of the Opposition,a supplementary. 620

Harch 21, 1984 Tape 230 PK - 1 HR. NEARY: ~rr. Speaker, I will listen attentively but I am afraiu from re1'orts that '1-.'e are getting that the tuing may be cut and dried already Mr. Speaker, maybe they are trying to funnel the convention centre off to some of their buddies who pass cheques out to people their opposite to supplement their income. Now, Hr. Speaker, let me talk for a moment about the student allowance. I i1ope the minister responsible will give us the details of that convention centre as quickly as possible because there are substantial federal money involved in that, ~Ir. Speaker.

Let rne talk for a moment about the $615,000 less for student allowance. SOHE HON. r'lEimERS : Hhat federal money? rm. HODDER: Like 90 per cent HR. NEARY: The minister told us yesterday we were going to get the details from his colleague 1 the Hinister of Education (Hs. Verge),who is not in her seat today. Could the minister give the House some details of these cuts,how they will affect the future enrollment at Memorial and at the College of Trades and at the Colle~e of Fisheries and at the vocational schools?

And what will these Draconian measures mean to the first class of Grade Xll students who will be corning out and looking forward to a post-secondary education in September? How will they be able to pursue their post-secondary education, I~. Speaker,when they will not have the assistance available to them to do it? HR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, you know, one hardly has to reject the charge that over the convention centre that 621

March 21, 1984 DR. COLLINS: improper in regard to that. MR. NE.ti.RY: going on. we are not dumb. DR. COLLINS: Tape 230 PK - 2 that we are doing something That is totally ridiculous. Do not >vorry, we know what is The hon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) knotvs that it is totally ridiculous because he followed on immediately SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER (Russell}: Order, please! DR. COLLINS: - and said that there are federal funds involved in this too, and there will be. There will be federal funds .

So he is suggesting what he calls · often times hanky-panky,that the federal government and the provincial government get together and carry out some hanky-panky, which is , you know, totally ridiculous. It is just so nonsensical one should not, I suppose, refer to it whatsoever. On the other matter,the hon. Minister of Education (Ms. Verge) will shortly be spelling out the details . I am sure the members of the House will be very interested in the details. I can say at this stage, though 1 that it will have no negative impact on students .

Students will be able to get the assistance that they require at least to the extent that they had in the past, and in actual fact it is very likely they will get it much more efficiently and effectively. SOME HON. ~!EMBERS: Hear, hear! 622

;. March 21, 1984 MR. SPEAKER (Russell): Opposition. MR. NEARY: Tape 231 EC - 1 The hon. the Leader of the We are very familiar with hanky-panky over here. We saw it with the Green Bay ferry and with the museum space down at the Murray Premises, and we know all about the aircraft that was being chartered by gentlemen there opposite. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! Several times now I have had to mention to the hon. the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) that he is entering into the realm of debate and making a speech, and certainly again would request him to pose a direct question. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, will the minister confirm or deny that there will be no increases in the actual cash available to people on social assistance, such as widows, invalids, sick people, orphans and those who are unemployed through no fault of their own, apart from the shelter and accommodation increases in the budget yesterday? Can the minister confirm or deny whether that is the extent of any increases to people on social assistance in this Province? MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Mr.

Speaker, as I mentioned during the speech related to the budget, the Department of Social Services reviewed extensively the manner in which social assistance is given and they identified a particular problem area. That problem area related to shelter and they felt that the best way of helping out the needy was to take care of that particularly apparent problem, a problem that was troubling many people on social assistance. This was the number one priority if you really are going to grapple with the real concerns of the needy. And this is where 623

March 21, 1984 Tape 231 EC - 2 DR . COLLINS: they directed their effort s. Obviously this Province does not have unlimited means . We would like to give every person on social assist~ce $2,000 a month if we had it but we obviously do not; we have to funnel, ,.,e have to channel, we have to focus the assistance we give . t-Ie like to give it in the most needy areas and this \'las the identified most needy area so that is where most of the assistance has gone. I would point out that ~~ere is other assistance given, particularly \dth regard to the care of children. MR. NEARY : Mr . Speaker, a supplementary . MR.

SPEAKER (Russell) : A supplementary, the hon . the Leader of the Opposition . MR . NEARY : Obviously, Mr . Speaker, the administration there opposite is lurching from crisis to crisis . Mr . Speaker, they have yielded in this case to pressure in St. John's as far as the boarding homes .are concerned and for~ot about 624

March 21, 1984 Tape No. 232 so - 1 MR. NEARY: all the rest of the recipients of social assistance in this Province. Now, Mr. Speaker, .let me ask the hon. gentleman - I can see that Your Honour is ready to come to tne 0efence of the administration, leap to his feet - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh . . MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, that obviously calls for a retraction. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Order, please! The hon. Leader of the Opposition (.Mr. Neary) is saying that the Chair is corning to the aid of the government, which is not ture. I would ask the hon. Leader of the Opposition to withdraw that comment. MR.

NEARY: Of course, Mr. Speaker, I with­ draw that. But, Mr. Speaker, in every other jurisdiction you are allowed a

preamble to questions that you ask. Now, Mr. Speaker, will the minister consider using savings from trans­ ferring welfare recipients from social assistance to unemployment . insurance benefits - because yesterday there was a programme announced for doubling the make-work projects on social assistance and the objective of that is to get people off the provincial welfare rolls and get them on to unemployment insurance - now, Mr.

Speaker, will the savings be used to help people on social assistance to balance their household budgets and enable them to have a balanced diet, warm homes, and the other nec~ssities of life that are so necessary to keep body and soul together? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, the han. Leader of the Opposition is too generous. We cannot really take undue credit. The Community Development Programme is not being doubled, it is or.ly going from $9 million up to $16 million, not $18 million. we do not want ~o take more credit than is due us.

So I would like to make a correction there. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. DR. COLLINS: In regard to his other remarks, 625

l-f.arch 21, 1984 Tap e No. 232 SD - 2 DR . COLLINS: of course, we will try to, in short, to the extent we can that every person on social assistance has their needs taken care of . But in doing that, we 1•ant to make sure that we give the highe st priority to their priority needs . And that is 1-.1hat we have done with this focused increase in social assistance. MR. NEARY : MR . SPEAKER (Russell) : of the Opposition. MR . NEARY : Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. SUpplementary, the hon. Lea der Mr. Speaker, the bon. gentleman no1.r has as much sense of ll.umour and as much wit as the member for St. John's No rth (Mr .

Carter) . Mr. Speaker, there will be counte~1arl~ng savings as a result of the !1inister of Social Services '' ('Mr. HicR:eyl transferring his clients from the provincial welfare rolls over to the fede ral unemplo yment insurance rolls. And, Mr . Speaker, there will be no jobs created i:n the end. Now 1.;i ll the hon . gentleman undertake to make a comm±~~ent to the people on social assistance in this Province, people who are sick and disabled and widows and orphans and invalids and people 1-.1ho are 626

11arch 21, 1984 Tape 233 EC - 1 MR. NEARY: unemployed through no fault of their own, will the hon. gentleman undertake to make a commitment that any counter­ vailing savings would be used to help these people balance their household budgets? MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. the Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, the revised budget for 1983-1984 £or the Department of Social Services was $117,937,100. In 1984-1985, the budget for the same department is $122,864,700.

So there is an increased amount of money going into the Social Services Department and,clearly, that is going to be used for the delivery of services to those in need. That is what the Department o£ Social Services is all about. .HR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker • MR.. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, to be a little more specific, would the hen. gentleman undertake to give the House a commitment that the countervailing savings would be used to increase the slender, the meagre allowances that people on social assistance are currently receiving in this Province? MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, I think I have already indicated that we have put increased funding in the department and the department has its programmes in place. Those programmes are designed to use the public dollar to the roost effect, and I can assure the hon. the Leader of the Opposition that the Minister of Social Services (Mr. Hickey) is continually reviewing his programme just to achieve that result. MR. SPEAKER: expired. MR. NEMY! Mr. Speaker. Order, please! The time £or Question Period has Too bad! We were just getting warmed up, 627

March 21, 1984 MR. HODDER: 11R. SPEAKER (Russell) : Port on a point of order. MR. HODDER: Tape 233 EC ~ 2 On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. The han. the member for Port au Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins), when I was questioning him the other day, undertook to table a list of civil servants who were reclassified within the last eight months. I asked him to do that and he said he would table it. When can we expect that? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! That is not a valid point of order.

It is certainly a question that could have been asked of the minister during Question Period. ~~. HODDER: I notice nobody over there responded to the point of order though. DR. COLLINS: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker . MR . SPEAKER: on a point of order. DR. COLLINS: The han. the Minister of Finance ~x. Speaker, I hope that if I am out of order, I am not too much out of order. I would like to correct something that the han. member opposite just stated. I gave no such commitment. He asked a question. I think if he looks up Hansard, I made no such commitment. MR. HODDER: MR. SPEAKER: To that point of order, Mr.

Speaker. The han. the member for Port au Port, to that point of order. MR. HODDER: I wonder why the minister will not make such a commitment since the charge was made and he did not answer it in the House? MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The point of order raised by 628

March 21, 1984 Tape 233 EC - 3 MR. SPEAKER (_Russell): the hon. the Minister of Einance (Dr. Collins) is not really a valid point of order, it is more a matter of clarification. 629

March 21, 1984 Tape No. 234 MJ - l ORDERS OF THE DAY t-1R. SPEAKER (Russell) It being Private Member's Day 1 we will continue \vi th Motion No. 6 on the Order Paper , I understand the debate was adjourned last day by the hon. the member for Port au Port (Mr. Hodder), who has approximately nine minutes. MR. HODDER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am glad the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) is in his seat as I think in the remaining nine minute~ that I have I would like to talk about a couple of issues which have occurred recently on the West Coast of this Province wit~ .which I am not very well pleased. Now, Mr.

Speaker, I asked the Minister of Fisheries some questions in this House in the Session before Christmas. I asked him "1-Thether fishermen who had not been paid by Bay St. George Seafoods would be paid. The minister gave his assurance at that time, I do not know if the minister \vas fully informed of the situation because his answer was garbled. When I read it back afterwards in Hansard , I was not sure if he thought I was talking about Belle Isle Seafoods or Bay St. George Seafoods but nevertheless, Mr. Speaker, I received a commitment from that minister in the House that the fishermen would be looked after.

Now these fishermen, Mr. Speaker, who sold their - MR. MORGAN: MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : Mr. Speaker, a point of order. A point of order, the hon. the Minister of Fisheries. MR. MORG.li.N: Mr. Speaker, if the hon. gentleman is going to quote me during the Question Period in the House, he fias to quote me accurately and the accuracy of it all is this: I was asked a question,whether or not I would ensure that the fishermen who were owed payments by the company, Bay 630

March 21, 1984 Tape No. 234 MJ - 2 MR. MORGA...r\1: St. George Seafoods, that they would get paid for the monies owed them by that company. My answer at the time was: If we were involved in a refinancing of that company through government guarantees , we would then establish a condition that that company pay the monies owed fishermen before they get money from us. Now the situation is that the company did not come to us looking for any additional monies, the company is now sold to a new owner/operator,and it is now the responsibility of the operator to oav the bills to the fishermen. MR.

HODDER: That is a lie. ··~ :.~G~G~;: Get your fact;;; s'craig~.t. .&.·.u·"'• HR. HODDER: To that point of order, Hr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Avlward) : The bon. the rr.ember for Port au Port. MR. HODDER: The minister's facts are fabrications, Mr. Speaker. They are parliamentary inexactitudes,if I cannot use the word 'liar' 1 because the minister knows that that company did come looking to him for money and that was in negotiations uo until - MR. MORGJI_N: That is not true. MR. HODDER: Oh, yes they did. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! To that point of order,I rule there is not a valid point of order.

The han. the minister used the opportunity to clarify statements attributed to him. The han. the member for Port au Port. MR. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, that company was in negotiations with the Department of Fisheries ever since la~t year. ~·lhat had happened with that particular company was that the provincial ~overnment had given them a number of loans, the last one being a guaranteed loan for somewhere around $80,000 or $90,000. That loan was just enough, because 631

March 21, 1984 Tape No. 234 MJ - 3 MR. HODDER: they were undercapitalized, it was just enough,and the Department of Fisheries should have known it, that loan was just enough to put them into bankruptcy. But they did not declare bankruptcy and they negotiated. The minister just stood in the House and said e that they had never come to him. They negotiated with the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) up until such time as recently the plant was sold. MR. ~10RGAN: A point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : A point of order, the hon. the Minister of Fisheries. MR. MORGAN: Mr.

Speaker, the hon. gentleman is misleading the House with this information. Because the fact is that we did assist that company a year and a half ago to the tune of, I think it was,· a $300,000 government guarantee. When the company came back looking for additional monies,because we felt the company was not in good management, because we felt it was not a viable operation, we refused any further assistance. My condition on the question asked last Fall was, if we provided any further,additional assistance we would attach a condition that the fishermen get paid for the monies owed.

We did not provide any further assistance arid now the company has sold its operation. MR. SPEAKER: To that point of order, the hon. the member for Port au Port. HR. HODDER: No, Mr. Speaker, go ahead. MR. SPEAKER: To that point of order,I rule that there is a difference of opinion between two hon. members. The hon. the member for Port au Port. MR. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, I will repeat the charge again. What happened was that the minister sold out 632

March 21, 1984 Tape No. 234 HJ - 4 MR. HODDER: the fishermen, ~nd these were fishermen, Mr. Speaker, who made from $6,000 to S8,000 a year, all of whom live below the poverty line. The minister knew very 633

March 21, 1984 Tape 235 PK - 1 MR. HODDER: well what was happening with that company. T.he minister had granted them -the figure $300,000 is a new one to me a guaranteed loan of $80,000 that I know about. There were a number of rural development loans which came from that government. By the way the owner of the Bay St. George Seafoods was a very well-known, prominent supporter of that administration. He would not declare bankruptcy, and he was negotiating with the minister, he was negotiating with the federal government, he was negotiating with everyone to try to get that plant open. The licences, Mr.

Speaker, which are given out by the provincial government 1were the key things. Now these licences have been sold with the plant. So when the minister gets up and says that the plant was sold by the operator,what happened to the licences? That is the question I would like for the minister to address. This plant was fully licenced. j,\lR. :.!ORGAN : MR. NEARY: MR. HODDER: Would you permit a question? No, you will have your chance. This plant was fully licenced, and the minister had a very good club to hold over the head of anybody who took over that plant 1 that they did not get the licences. MR. MORGAN: MR.

SPEAKER (Aylward} : Minister of Fisheries. MR. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker, to a point of order. A point of order, the hon. The member is giving the impression that we are going around bandying around licences and saying,'you must sell your plant.' The fact is just in recent days, Mr. Speaker, a new company from the Western part of the Province came to the Newfoundland Government looking for a licence. A licence for what? A licence to operate a 634

March 21, 1984 Tape 235 PK - 2 MR. MORGAN: plant that was previously owned by Bay St. George Seafoods. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, what is this? My hon. colleag~e has the floor. MR. MORGAN: Now,Mr. Speaker, if the hon. gentleman is going to speak in debate and quote this hon. gentleman here 1 he has to quote him accurately. And the fact is - MR. HODDER: Hansard will show it all. MR. MORGAN: -Mr. Speaker, we are not going around using the licences as a means closing plants. We may be using licences to. get plants reopened, In this case Bay St.

George would be closed last year because the company could not carry on, it was not financially stable, now a new company has come in and bought that operation and 1naturally, Mr. Speaker, we are not going to say no to providing a licence to that new company. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : Order, please! MR. MORGAN: So if the bon. gentleman, Mr. Speaker, wants us to say no to the new company 1 no new licences and no jobs ' in the fish plant this Summer, we are going to say no to him. MR. NEARY: 1-:hat is this, Mr. Speaker? MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! To answer the hon.

Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary), that was a point of order raised by the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan). MR. NEARY: It was? MR. SPEAKER: He raised the point of order and this Chair can only rule on a point of order after it hears the arguments. I rule that there was not a point of order. It was a difference of opinion between two bon. members. 635

March 21, 1984 Tape 235 PK - 3 MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : The hon. member for Port au Port. MR. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, there were some 200 or 300 fishermen who were affected. Not only were fishermen affected, but small store owners to whom fishermen went to cash their cheques finally found themselves holding $200 or $300 cheques. We are talking about convenience stores here, where their cheques were cashed, because there are no large bussinesses in that particular area of the Province.

And that plant was fully licenced and the minister could have protected those fishermen by making sure that the person who took that plant, with his understanding - MR. MORGAN: How can you talk like that? You are talking nonsense. MR. HODDER: Can the minister withdraw licences? Do you not have the control, does not the Province have control over licences? MR. MORGAN: We have been using the licences for years. Do you not know that? ' MR. NEARY: They want more control and they cannot even run what they got now. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! MR. HODDER: Mr.

Speaker, a fully licenced plant which had been forced into bankruptcy by this government - MR. STAGG: Forced into bankruptcy? MR. HODDER: Yes, forced into bankruptcy, and it was in the hon. member's district. MR. STAGG: Yes, and I know an awful lot about it. MR. HODDER: And the hon. member should be defending them because some of his plant workers did not get paid either. MR. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker, this I have to correct - 636

March 21, 1984 Tape 235 P!< - 4 MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : Order, please! On a point of order, the hon . Minister of Fisheries . ~ffi. MORGAN : - for record of the House of Assembly, on a point of clarification . The company did not go bankrupt: The company is not in bankruptcy. The company has so ld its operations. The company had never gone into bankrupt cy . MR. HODDER : No, it did not . MR . MORGAI.'l . Get your facts st raight , boy . MR . SPEAKER: Order , please ! It is not permissible for the hon. member to stand up continuously on points of clarification . He has to stand on points of order or point s of privilege. MR. NEARY : Right on. Learn the rules . 637

March 21, 1984 Tape No~ 236 NM - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : The hon. the member for Port au Port. MR. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, just one final comment as my time has elapsed. Mr. Speaker, the licences that were in that plant went with the sale of the plant to the new owner. MR. MORGAN: No, they did not. MR. HODDER: Yes, they did. MR. MORGAN: They applied for new licences. MR. HODDER: And you gave them to them. MR. MORGAN: Why . should I not? MR.

HODDER: If the plant had not become bankrupt and if these fishermen had not been paid their $50,000,that should have been a condition before these licences were given,and the minister knows it. He is trying to blindfold the devil in the dark because he knows, and the member for Stephenville (Mr. Stagg) should know,too, because he had plant workers who lost income through that. And he sits there very - 1;1R. MORGAN: homework done. Get the facts. Get your MR. HODDER: I do not have to get my homework done. I know about the deal that was pulled.

There was a deal ?Ulled, that is what happened,and the fishermen were the losers, and you promised that they would not be the losers, and you could have stopped them from being losers in this particular instance. Now,I have not even gotten to the other point, Mr. Speaker, about Belle Isle Seafoods, where the minister last year sat down with myself and 638

.I: • March 21, 1984 Tape No. 236 NM - 2 MR. HODDER: the union and said, and I realize I have a short time left, and said that the jobs would remain as they were, This year the new owner ~and I am talking about a different case, for clarification of hon. members, another case of where Belle Isle Seafoods took over the Piccadilly plant and now they have decided that they will downgrade this plant by twenty people, or up to twenty people. Now the minister f can sit th.ere - MR. MORGAN: The owner of that company, I heard he will not talk ~o you. MR. SPEAKER (Aylward): Order, please!

I have to inform the hon. member that his time has elapsed ·. MR. HODDER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will return to this particular issue again, do not worry. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Trinity North. Sm.1E :EWN. !,tU1BERS : Hear, hear! MR. BRETT: Mr. Speaker, I rise to address a motion made by the hon. member for Fogo (Mr.

Tulk), that great fishing district of Fogo where I was born and raised, fished with my father until I was out of high school, that district where I paved most of the roads while I was the Minister of Transportation, that district where I changed the ferry route to the joy of everybody who is using it,and that great district where,had I sought a seat for the government,! would suggest the hon. member would have been on shaky legs. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! 639

March 21, 1984 Tape No. 236 NM - 3 MR. BRETT: I think the hon. member \ITas scared to death of me. He came across the House one time to tal k to me over in the Com.-non Room. He put his fin ger up in my face and told me how much he hatec me and that someday he was going to get me . I wondered for some time why it was that he hated me so much and why he wanted to get me. Of course,I came to the conclusion that the reason was that he was scared to death that I just might go back home .

Be acknowledged in the .1\.ssembly here one day that I was a hero on Fogo Island and,as I i~dicated,he was frightened to death that I just might go down there and run and do him out of a seat. So he can thank me that he is still over there, ~he great gentleman that he is, the great organizer for the Liberal Party . MR . MORGAN : He \>Till go back to teaching after the next election. MR. BRETT: The implications, Mr . Speaker, of the hon . member's motion 64 0

March 21, 1984 Tape No. 237 SD - 1 MR. BRETT: is that this government has no policy for the fisheries. After hearing what the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) said earlier this afternoon I think the han. member for Fogo (.Mr. Tulkl. should thank God that we do have a policy. Because when the Fogo Island Co-op was in trouble last Fall, who rushed down or out or whatever to their assistance and guaranteed th.eir loan to the tune of some $700,000 so that the Co-op could keep going?

And now we are being told by the minister,today,that a $1 million package has been put in place to keep the fishery on Fogo Island going. So I think the han. member should be grateful that we do, in fact, have a policy for the fisheries. Now, Mr. Speaker, our time is limited to twenty minutes. It is not possible in twenty minutes to speak to this motion in totality,so I will refer to some parts of it. I want to speak to it more or less as it pertains to my district,because I think a lot of people do not recognize the district of Trinity North as a district that depends very heavily on the fishery.

Settlements like Grand Bank, Burin, Fortune, some of these places are synonymous with the fisheries

whereas the district of Trinity North is not. I suppose when one thinks of Catalina or Port Union they might, but certainly not the rest of the district. And I would like to point out to the House of Assembly that without the fisheries unemployment in th.e district of Tr:ini ty North would probably be higher than anywhere in the Province. There are several fish plants, and I would like to talk about each one because I believe that they are there because this government has a policy.

I will mention the largest one first and that is what was known, I guess, l?Y Cl;ll of us as Fishery Products Limited at Port Union, , which is now part of Fishery Products International as a result of the rest;:-ucturing, And, of course, without the restructuring I would say that plant would probably be closed 641

March 21, 1984 Tape No . 237 SD - 2 MR. BRETT: today and that so me l, 10 0 people would be out of l•lork. I go back to 19.71, Mr. S:>eaker, ,,,hen that plant was a seasonal plant with a £e1., hundred workers. I suppose it had some significance but it was mostly to the communities inunediate 'ly surrounding it, the communities of Cataline and Port Union, out it 1.,as not significant in the overall economy of the Bonav ista Pen±nsula.

But because of loans, grants and be::ause of our policies, that has grown from a small seasonal plant to one of the largest and probably one of the most prod~ctive plants on the Island of Newfoundland . The payroll is sta ggering . The payroll for that fish plant in Port Union is almost $25 million a year . You know, I did not even realize it myself, Mr. Speaker, ~~d I am the member . I was doing a little bit of research for this address and wnen 642

March 21,1984 Tape No. 238 ah-1 MR.BRETT: I was told that the payroll averaged last year $1.9 million a month I was flabbergasted, I could not believe it. ~hat amounted to almost $25 millio~ a year~ ~hey employ around 1100 people a month, and that includes people who work in the plant and people who work on the draggers. So that means that that one plant alone in wages, just in wages and nothing else, contributes $25 million to the district of Trinity North. And also in the neighbouring town of Catalina there is another plant which is operated by an old established company , the company of S.W. Mifflin Limited.

It was a large operation at one time but now the owners are agents of the Canadian Saltfish Corporation.

But they were around when the times were tough,back in the 60s when the government of the day had no fishery policy,and it was only because of the Conservative government which came into power in the early 70s and established a policy that they pulled themselves up by the boot straps with loans that they subsequently paid back.But today when compared with Fishery Products International, when compared to them they are small, but even so their payroll, their yearly payroll just in the town of Catalina is $600,000 and they hire anywhere from thirty in the Spring to fifty-five in peak season. So, Mr.

Speker, that is of great significance,as is the other plant,to the whole Bortavista Peninsula, because like Fishery Products International not only do they hire people from the immediate communities but also from all the way up the shore. And then as we come up Trinity Bay there is another small fish plant,established at least three or four years ago primarily for groundfish. That did not work, and 643

March 21,1984 Tape No. 238 ah-2 MR.BRETT: the plant was subsequently bought by new owners.And I can say in all sincerity that but for the Minister of Fisheries (Mr.Morgan), who is doing such a great job,that plant would never have been established ... :l.s it is today to process shellfish, namely crab. It is called Trouty Sea Foods, I believe that is the name of the conpany. They paid out last year, Mr.

Speaker, and will probably pay out more this year -last year they paid out $450,000 in wages. on a single shift they employ anywhere from seventy to seventy-five people,~nd on a double shift,when you double that up, one hundred and forty to one hundred and forty-five. And that was only in a four and a half month period. The only reason that plant is there, Mr. Speaker, is because we had a policy and because of the interest and the co-operation of the Minister of Fisheries. And I doubt if anybody in the Province realizes that there are two fish plants in the town of Clarenville. That is not known in this Province.

Everybody thinks of Clarenville - and I notice there are two people sitting in the gallery today from Clarenville. They live in St. John's bu~ they are from Clarenville.And I do not know if they know it or not. Very few people realize there are two fish plants in the town of Clarenville. And I remember when the first one was to be established. I had some people come to me and say, 'Brett, you are out of your mind. We will never stand the stink.' I said, 'The money will not smell. '' But there are two fish plants in the town of Clarenville.

One is operated by Clarenville Ocean Products Limited and it is there because we had a policy , because we had interest, because the Department of Public Works co-operated with 644

March 21,1984 Tape No. 238 HR .BRETT: the company and made a building built by the previous administrat ion for what reason we have never been able to find out - to this day we do not know why the building \vas put there. ah-3 It cost several hundred thousand dollars and \o.'he .n I got elected in 1971 or 1972,or whatever it was, it was sitting there a white elephant . 645

March 21, 1984 Tape 239 EC - 1 MR. BRETT: But the company came in and they made a good deal with Public Works. Because of the good deal there was not too much up-front capital money, which made it easy for them to move in, and today their payroll in that one plant in Clarenville is $525,000 a year. That is what it was last year, and they have a high on their payroll of eighty-three employees and a low of fifty-four. MR. STEWART: They are going to expand that new operation. MR. BRETT: No, that is Ocean Products. That is one. Now, there are two plants. The other is called Terra Nova Fisheries.

And again I have to say, Mr. Speaker, that because of policies that we are accused of not having, because of interests that we are accused of not having,because of priorities that we are accused of not having, that second fish plant came into Clarenville. I had a visit from Dr. Cosmas Ho, well-known by people who are involved in the fishery. Dr. Ho is not getting the credit that he deserves. I wish I had more time to talk about him,because he was a pioneer in the squid fishery in this Province. He started it, and it has developed into a big thing.

But his initial contact - at least the second contact, I guess the initial one was with the Minister of Fisheries, and it was the Minister of Fisheries of the day. But his second contact was with me. He came to me. He said, 'I want to start a fish plant in Clarenville and I want a building. Where can I get one?' And the old highways depot was there. Some people had highfalutin ideas about hanging on to it for the offshore, and I think we kind of had a tentative agreement that we would sort of freeze the building and hope that something might happen in the offshore whereby it could be used. 646

March 21, 1984 Tape 239 EC - 2 MR. BRETT: But any'lvay, again, through the co-operation of the Minister of Public Works (Mr. Young), we arranged a lease and, the same as the previous company that I mentioned, because of a good lease, the company did not have to put a lot of capital up front and again they moved into Clarenville. I do not have the exact figures as I did on the others but I know that they employ at least fifty employees, they have at least fifty employees on the payroll for a period of four to six months, and I know that their payroll has to be in excess of $250,000 a year. So, Mr.

Speaker, it should be noted that there are two fish plants in a service town. You kn~1, when you think of Clarenville, you think of Gander, you think of Grand Falls. But very few people realize that two fish plants are responsible for directing into the economy of Clarenville in wages alone over $750,000. Mr. Speaker, the big point I wanted to make is that the fisheries in wages alone, contribute to the district of Trinity North, $26 million a year -Mr. Speaker, that is staggering! - and in excess of 1,400 jobs. And that is direct. That does not say anything about the spinoff from that.

I do not know what the multiplier factor is, perhaps somebody could help me on that. But if you apply the multiplier factor, then I suggest you would come up with-what? - well in excess of 3,000 jobs directly from the fishery. And I submit, Mr. Speaker, that this would not be possible if we had a government in power that had no policies with respect to the fisheries. Mr. Speaker, I want to refer to the

Whereas number two. It will only take a second to read it. It says, 'Whereas the cost associated with 647

• March 21 , 1984 Tape 239 EC - 3 MR . BRETT: the harvesting sector of the in shor e fis hery has risen substantially, thereby pla ci ng these fi she rmen in a bankrupt posi ti on '. When I read that, the first word that sort of leapt out at me \<~a s 'bankruptcy' and l have to say, Mr . Speaker, that if I were a member of the Liberal Party in Ne\~foundland today talking about the fishery, the last word that would be in my vocabulary \·rould be 'bankruptcy' . Beca use 648

March 21, 1984 Tape No. 240 NM - 1 MR. BRETT: the only party that is responsible for putting fishermen in this Province into bankruptcy is the Liberal Party in Ottawa tqrough Revenue Canada. Now, Mr. Speaker, I can recall very vividly going into a little small community about two years ago and running into a constituent of mine, he called me into his basement to tell me the story of what Revenue Canada had done to him. He was a sick man, very serious bronchial trouble. AS the saying goes, he had one leg in the grave, Mr.

Speaker, and one leg out, ~nd he had a small longliner, about a 36 foot to a 38 foot longliner and it is true, Mr. Speaker, to say that he had to make about three attempts when he came in from fishing to get from the boat to the wharf and 1of course,going around with his overall clothes loaded with pills to keep him alive, The story he had to tell me was this, when he was not in the hospital he was in the fishing boat. But his drugs cost him a fortune.

He managed to make enough to stay ·off welfare,so he had put a few dollars into a bank account, enough to bury him and his family, enough to give them a decent burial, and a few dollars now and then to pay his way to St. John's or wherever to get his pills. His income tax, the man was not illiterate, he managed to read and write 1but he could not do his income tax papers so he had someone ~he thought was reliable do them for him for a number of years. What happened? I am sure everybody knows the story but I will finish it for the record. Revenue Canada decided they were going to audit him.

Of course,he did not know but that was good to eat. He did not know what audited meant. But what he did know, 649

March 21, 1984 Tape No. 240 NM - 2 MR. BRETT: Mr. Speaker, what he did know was that the end result was his bank account was wiped out. Not one single, solitary cent left to buy his pills, to get to St. John's, for that matter to buy groceries if he had a bad year. And that hon. member over there has the gall to put in a motion that this government is forcing fishermen into bankruptcy. As I said, if I were a Liberal I would not even dream about using the word because you are looking for a fight. Now I think I have a few more minutes.

Number three says, "WHEREAS the present government has been using the fishing industry as an employer of last resort." Now, Mr. Speaker, that is pure, unadulterated political rhetoric. It is bull-you know what. The only party in this Province that ever used the fishermen as such is the Liberal Party. Now I know the han. member was not in that government, and I know that somebody over there is going to say, "Stop digging up the past." But there was never a Tory said, "Burn your boat." And there was never a Tory said, "Haul up your nets." The Liberal Party said it.

Fortunately for the hon. gentleman he was not a member of that government. So the boats rotted, and the gear rotted. MR. MORGAN: word then . Resettlement was the key .r-1R.BRETT: Resettlement, and our young people went away in droves. They went to Toronto. They went to work in the factories, wherever they could get a job. So, Mr. Speaker, how can the han. member say that we are using the fisheries as a means of last resort. Look 1it is common knowledge in 650

March 21, 1984 Tape No. 240 NM - 3 MR. BRETT: the Province that when the Conservative Government took over this Province in the early 70s there was no fishing policy. And that the administration 651

March 21, 1984 Tape Nb. 241 so - 1 MR. BRETT: before this one, they really started the ball rolling and they poured millions of dollars into the fishery,and this administration has continued to do the same thing. And I might add, Mr. Speaker, that we are verv uroud of it. MR. NEARY: You are not getting back into the Cabinet no matter how hard you try. MR. BAIRD: He is a lot closer to it than you will ever be. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : Order, please! MR. BRETT: Mr.

Speaker, it is political rh .etoric and I would love to spend more time on it, but we only have twenty minutes so I think I will sum it up by saying this, we have not used the fishery as an employer of last resort and neither did the Liberal Party because they did not use it at all. So neither one of us are really guilty of it. Mr. Speaker, the district of Trinity North is just but one district in this Province that would not survive without the fish.ery.

And I get a little bit upset when people make accusations against me and the government that all we care about is oil and gas, We have said over and over and over that the revenues that we hope to get from the oil ~.,ill be used to generate th .e fishery and the other natural resources · of our Province. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR •. SPEAKER: MR. BRETT: against the motion. SOME KON .. MEMBERS : MR. BAR.~Y: MR. SPEAKER: MR .. BARRY; Oh., oh. Order, please! Mr. Speaker, I will be voting Hear, hear. Mr, Speaker. The hon. member for Mount Scio. Mr.

Speaker, it gives me pleasure to sui?port the motion of mY colleague, th .e member from Fogo (}1r. Tulki. 652

March 21, 1984 Tape No. 241 SD - 2 MR. BARRY: And, Mr.

Speaker, when I look at it, when I see the resolution, 'That this- House direct the present government to put forward a sound development strategy for the Newfoundland and Labrador fishery which will protect the interests of inshore fishermen, plant workers, trawlermen and the independent processors as well as the major companies involved in the recent restructuring agreement; AND BE IT FURTHER ~OLVED that the House direct the government to immediately res·olve the unsatisfactory labour relations presently existing in the fishing industry as outlined by the "Unity 84" Campaign', what is it that members opposite are objecting to?

MR. NEARY: MR. BARRY: They are against motherhood. Well 1 it would seem that they are against protecting the interests of inshore fishermen, plant workers, trawlermen and the independent processors as well as the major companies involved in the recent restructuring agreement 1 and they are against resolving the labour problems that are presently existing which are being discussed in the "Unity 84" Campaign.

Now we are not asking the government to go down and accept the ''Unity 84" Campaign, we are not asking them to go down and pass over the management of the fishing industry to the Newfoundland Fishermen 1 Food and Allied workers •- Union. We are asking members opposite to direct their attention to the problems of the Newfoundland fishery. And in voting against this motion,they are saying they are not interested in protecting the interests of th_e groups· mentioned here. And I suppose,look:i:ng at the budget opposite 1 that is consistent.

They are showing that they are not interested in protecting th_e interests of students, they are not interested in protecting the taxpayers- and municipalities who are going to have their costs go up 1 and on and on. Mr. Speaker, we have a government which has reached the stage that it has lost touch with reality, it has lost touch 653

March 21, 1984 Tape 242 PK - 1 MR. BARRY: with the reality of our many fishermen out there who are going through very hard times. Now as far as restructuring is concerned, Mr. Speaker, I and my colleagues,I am sure, support the attempt to see a restructured fishing industry and we believe that restructuring must be given a chance and we hope that it will work and we will do everything possible in the form of constructive suggestions ,while this House is open and otherwise 1 to see that restructuring will work. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. BARRY: But, Mr.

Speaker, what we are dealing with in this resolution, we are dealing with the fact that there are fishermen in this Province who are not being helped by restructuring. The Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) admitted that when he pointed out that the majority of our inshore fishermen do not sell to the restructured company, they will not be selling their fish to the restructured company. Now the minister and members opposite cannot wash their hands of the very serious problems that exist in the fishing industry.

I went through Hansard a few moments ago and I looked at the comments of the Minister of Fisheries last week. The Minister of Fisheries listed statistics on the few numbers of fishermen who have actually filed in bankruptcy, presumably arguing, Mr. Speaker, that there is not a serious crisis out there amongst our inshore fishermen. Now , Mr. Speaker, I think the Minister of Fisheries is either refusing to face reality or else he has been spending too much time on his Asian tours and should get back to getting out on the wharf head a few more times and talking to the fishermen. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! 654

March 21, 1984 MR. MORGAN: about wharf heads. MR. BARRY: Tape 242 PK - 2 Listen to who is talking Mr. Speaker, it is about time the minister started talking to his constituents and started talking ·to, Mr. Speaker, them about the problems which they are experiencing. And if the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) thinks - MR. MORGAN: Corne down to Bonavista South in the next election and run against me. MR. BA...'<.RY: Hr. ~reaker, that is very tempting. That is very tempting, Mr. Speaker, but the Minister of Fisheries,however much he may bluster ,Mr.

Speaker, in this House, however much he may go on the personal attack, is going to have to answer to the fishermen of this Province, Mr. Speaker. And they are seeing through, Mr. Speaker, the incompetence of the Minister of Fisheries. MR. MORGAN: How atout the 'Ibry reception for you in Labrador last ~.o.>eek. MR. BARRY: Yes, Mr. Speaker, let us hear about the reception I got in Labrador, Mr. Speaker. Let us hear about the reception I got from the people on the Coast of Labrador,who tell me that the policies of the minister and the policies of government are failing, Mr. Speaker.

They are failing to meet the needs of the fishermen on the Coast of Labrador, and that is from the people,Mr. Speaker, and that is from our fishermen on the Coast of Labrador. Now, Mr. Speaker, if the minister thinks that it is a personal attack to set out that the minister is incornpetent,that his policies are not meeting the issues of the day, are not meeting the needs of our fishermen, Mr. Speaker, there will be othersjthat is the function and the role, Mr. Speaker, of the Opposition and we will be setting out,not just for the Minister of Fisheries but minister by rninister,where their policies 655

r-1arch 21, 1984 MR • .l10RGAN : back fired last week . MR . BARRY : Tape 242 PK - 3 Your attack on me The Minister of Fisheries {Mr. Morgan) ha~ done more with that Telex to support the cr edibility of my state ment than I could ever do in this House of Assembly , Mr . Speaker . When one con sider s why a mini ste r of the Crown would ca ll up and ask anoth er min ister of the Crown for a certificate of stability and competence, Mr . Speaker, one has to wonder, Mr. Speaker . MR . MORGAN : At lea st I did not call him a l iar like you did . NR . BARRY : Mr. Speaker, I would l£ke to have the opportunity , Hr .

Speake r, of speaking and making my point -without having to shout him down, Mr . Speaker, but I will if I have to . MR . SPEAF-.ER {Dr . ~lcNichola s ) : Order, please! 656

March 21,1984 Tape No. 243 ah-1 MR. BARRY: MR. MORGAN: MR.SPEAKER (Dr.McNicholas): MR.BARRY: Mr. Speaker, Mr. De Bane himself - The shining star of the Liberals. Order, please! Mr. Speaker, nobody in this Province cares whether the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) is a crybaby. What the people of this Province are concerned about, Mr. Speaker, are whether he is doing his job and whether the Premier of this Province is letting him do his job.

And the point I made last week,and the point I make again this week is that the Minister of Fisheries had his legs cut out from underneath him in the course of negotiations on the most important issue then facing the fisheries, saving these plants that were insolvent, keeping these fish plants open. Now, Mr. Speaker, what did Mr. De Bane say? MR.MORGAN: MR. BARRY: MR. SPEAKER: MR.BARRY: Collect your big legal fee and (inaudible). What did Mr. De Bane say? Order, please! Mr. Speaker, Mr. De Bane said that the Minister of Fisheries had been rejected three times by the Premier.

Now this was in his news conference here in St. John's on July 4th. Mr. De Bane said that the Minister of Fisheries had on one day initialed an agreement with Mr. De Bane and the next day had to come back to him and say that that agreement was not acceptable to the Premier and Cabinet. Mr. De Bane,at great embarrassment to himself 1 went back to the federal cabinet, Mr. Speaker, and had another agreement initialed by the Minister of Fisheries.And was that acceptable? Mr. Speaker, he went back to the Premier again 657

March 21,1984 Tape No. 243 ah-2 MR.NEARY: out. Three strikes and you are MR.BARRY: ~I. Speaker, the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) had to go back a third time. He had to say to the federal minister , 'My colleagues in Cabinet have undermined me again. They have cut the legs out from underneath me. They will not approve this second agreement that I have signed. Please go back and get another one.' MR.MORGAN: MR. TULK: thing - MR.BARRY: (Inaudible) What about this personal Mr.

Speaker, any work that I have done for any client I am very proud of 1 particularly the opportunity I had to force the Minister of Fisheries and the government opposite to finally get to the real issues, to finally get to the stage where they had to finally get involved in the restructuring agreement because, Mr. Speaker, that was the point I was coming to. After they finally walked away from the table , Mr. Speaker, with the Newfoundland Minister of Fisheries, Mr. De Bane had to say, 'Mr. Morgan,as much as I like you as a person,how can I continue to negotiate with you~ Where is your credibility?

You have come back three times and told me.' Now , Mr. Speaker, who cares whether the minister should have done the honourable thing and resigned. The question is, Mr. Speaker - MR. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order. MR.SPEAKER (Dr.McNicholas): Order, please! The Minister of Fisheries on a point of order. MR.MORGAN: Mr. Speaker, the debate is on a fisheries motion 1and the debate is on the policies 658

March 21,1984 Tape No. 243 ah-3 MR.MORGAN: industry. on developing the fishing Why is it the hon. gentleman still choses to go on this slanderous,personal attack again? Why does he not stick to the issues like his colleagues who already spoken ~n debate? The hon. member for Fogo (Mr. Tulk) put forward the motion and in doing so put forward questions on policy , questions on the issues in the fishing industry today,and not the kind,again, digging in personal attack by the same hon. gentleman who personally attacked me last week. Mr.

Speaker, I think it ~s time that the hon. member who is now speaking in this debate be more pertinent to the debate itself and get down to the issues and the problems of the fisheries today and the fishermen in particular. Stop being so personal. MR.NEARY: Mr. Speaker, to the point of order. MR.SPEAKER (D:r.McNicholas): To the point of order. The hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR.NEARY: Mr. Speaker, Your Honour is aware, I believe, that that is not a point of order, it is merely a difference of opinion between two hon. gentlemen. Obviously the hon. Minister of Fisheries (Mr.Morgan) is hurting and , Mr.

Speaker, when it comes to slanderous and libellous statements I do not think I have ever heard anything as low as the interjection by the hon. gentleman there a few moments ago. MR.MORGAN: Listen to who is talking! 659 .·

March 21, 1984 Tape No. 244 MJ - 1 MR. NEARY: How low, Mr. Speaker, and how slanderous can you get? The fact of the matter is, Mr. Speaker, that my hon. colleague is putting forward a good argument for supporting this resolution, why han. gentleman there opposite should support this resolution. Here is why the hon. gentleman is hurting: "WHEREAS the present government's lack of fishery development policy is threatening to destroy the economic, social and cultural fabric of Newfoundland and Labrador society".

The hon. gentleman is making a good speech, a good case to try to entice members to support that resolution, Mr. Speaker, and I would submit that he be allowed to continue uninterrupted by hon. gentlemen there opposite. MR. MORGAN: Speak to the issues. MR. NEARY: And if the hon. gentleman cannot stand the heat he should get out of the kitchen. MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): Order, please! Order, please! To that point of order,I rule there is no point of order,it is just a matter of a difference of opinion. l-'lR. BARRY: The hon. the member for Mount Scio. Mr.

Speaker, if it is not a real issue in this Province whether the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Horgan) still has any credibility in terms of negotiating with the federal minister, in terms of negotiating with other people, if that is not an issue, ~1r. Speaker, how can we have any issue that is more important to our fishery? The Minister of Fisheries, who will have to be, Mr. Speaker, who is supposed to be the one now to negotiate with the federal minister has no credibility. Now that is the point. Mr.

Speaker, we may feel sorry for the Minister of Fisheries, his colleagues may feel sorry for him, we may like him as a person ., but the issue is, can this man 660

& March 21, 1984 Tape No. 244 11J - 2 MR. BAP.RY: preserve his credibility in future negotiations with the federal government after this happening? Can he do that? MR. MORGAN: MR. BARRY: Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) 1 ''"ON', schoolboy debc>ter, speak for yourself. Mr. Speaker, the Minister of I would ask if you would prevent him from interfering with the debate 1I would like to continue. MR. MORGAN: Well,debate the issues. MR. BARRY: Mr. Speaker, I >'lill debate whatever I want to debate. MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas) Order, please! Order, please! The hon. member has asked to be heard in silence. HR. BARRY: Mr.

Speaker, there are a number of very serious questions and one, Mr. speaker, has to do with this entire issue of quality. The Newfoundland fishermen are very concerned that they are being asked to improve quality. They support the concept, I support the concept, eveybody supports the concept that quality should be improved. But, Mr. Speaker, the Newfoundland fishermen are very concerned that it will not matter whether the quality of their fish is improved- When they land their fish, Mr.

Speaker, they are concerned 1 after putting all this extra effort into improving quality, after putting this extra cost in terms of time and so forth into preserving quality, will they get the price to compensate them for this extra effort, for this extra time? And right now, Mr. Speaker, they see that they will not get a better price~ they see that there are large unsold inventories, they see that there is competition from lower priced protein and,11r. Speaker, they want to know wha~ the Minister of Fisheries opposite and what the government is going to do to see that they get the price they should get 661

March 21, 1984 Ta pe No. 244 MJ - 3 MR. BARRY: for their higher quality fish. And, Mr. Speaker, that is one question which the ~1inister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) has not directed himself to, has not shown any leadership on,and the time is coming, Mr. Speaker, when the minister's time will be running out. The fishermen of this Province are becoming impatient. Mr. Speaker, another very valid point that is made by our fishermen is that one of the things affecting the price of fish is the strength of the Canadian dollar.

Our Newfoundland fishermen are seeing the Canadian Government intervene to keep the Canadian dollar strong, to keep the Canadian dollar higher vis-~-vis European currencies. And they are saying, if the federal government is going to keep the Canadian dollar up, is going to actually intervene, use policies to keep 1he Canadian dollar up,and if that is going to mean then that European fish is going to be more competitive than Newfoundland fish in the markets of the world 1 should there not be, 1tt.

Speaker, some policy on the part of the Canadian Government; supported by the provincial government,that will recognize that if currency problems - and there may be other valid reasons - 662

March' 21, 1984 Tape 245 EC - 1 MR. BARRY: currency problems 1 and there may be other valid reasons for dealing with the currency issue, but if decisions of the national government, the Government of Canada, are going to make the Newfoundland fishermen less competitive, then should there not be. another policy? \~ether it be, Mr. Speaker, a commodity support board or whether it be some other mechanism, should there not be? Are our fishermen not entitled to be protected from the adverse effects of such national polfcies? These are very real issues, Mr. Speaker, that the Minister of Fisheries (Mr.

Morgan) has not yet addressed and that our fishermen expect our provincial Minister of Fisheries to deal with. MR. HORGAN: Both governments combined. MR. BARRY: Both governments combined. I have said that. But at least this government has got to get away from these red herrings, Mr. Speaker, these issues that are thrown out as great propaganda but do nothing to meet the real issues of the day. Every day that the Canadian dollar goes up in relationship to European currency, the competitiveness of the Newfoundland fishery goes down, is hurt, is endangered.

And, Mr.Speaker, I would ask the Minister of Fisheries to get up in this House on the earliest occasion and to talk about what he is going to do, what he is going to recommend if not do directly, what he is going to request of the Government of Canada to ensure that the national policies of this country do not continue to place the Newfoundland fishery in a less and less competitive situation. And also, Mr.

Speaker, I would ask the minister opposite, rather than rely upon these insubstantial statistics as to how many fishermen have actually filed bankruptcy papers, to have his department do some surveys and determine 663

March 21, 1984 Tape 245 EC - 2 MR. BARRY: whether or not what the party on this side of the House, whether or not the executive of the Newfoundland Fisherman, Food and Allied Workers Union, and whether or not what many fishermen say is true: Do we have ·a situation today where many of our fishermen can not even meet the cost of paying off their boats? Do we not have a situation where many of them today are earning less than the poverty level? Do we not have a crisis, Mr. Speaker, that will have to be dealt with to help our inshore fishermen earn a decent income in this Province? I see my time is up.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Dr. !1c Nicholc: .s) : Thank you. MR. MORGAN: By leave. He is making sense. Sm-IE HON. MEMBERS: By leave. S0!1E HON. !1EMBERS : No , no . MR. SPEAKER: MR. DINN: Does the han. member have leave? There are a lot of han. members who want to speak on this very, very important subject, ~I. Speaker, in the House of Assembly. MR. SPEAKER: Before recognizing the minister, I would like to welcome to this Assembly, the Fogo Island Central High School and their Principal, Mr. Fudge. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.

SPEAKER: Also, before recognizing the minister, I want to give a ruling on a point of order that was raised by the hon. the Leader of the Opposition lMr. Neary). It was in reference to comments made by the hon. the President of the Council (Mr. Marshall) on Friday last. The comments made referred to members of the House of Commons, so it was not a point of order in this Assembly. 664

!.::.. t-1arch 21, 1984 Tape 245 EC - 3 MR. SPEAKER (Dr . McNicholas): o£ Labour and Manpower . .MR. DINN: The hon. the ~~nister Mr . Speaker, I would like to speak very briefly on the resolution . I under­ stand that m.any bon . members in the House of Assembly ~vould like to have a few words, especially those members who have fishing districts .

I \vOuld like to deal \o~ith the part of the resolution that deals vlith 'AND BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Eiouse direct the government to immedi­ ately resolve the unsatisfactory labour relaticms presently existing in the fishing industry, as outlined by the "Unity '84" Campaign .' Before I get into that, I \otould like to deal with the hon. the member for Moun t Scio (Mr . Barry) as it relates to his attack again on the ho n. the Minister of Fisheries (Mr . Morgan) . Now, Mr. Speaker, we had this sort of 665

March 21, 1984 Tape No. 246 NM - 1 MR. DINN: thing happen in the House of Assembly last week and I believe the people of Newfoundland are basically fed up with that sort of nonsensical and silly sort of an argument used by the hon. member for Mount Scio (Mr. Barry). We know he is smarting. We know that what he said last week was found out not to be true, that the federal minister disassociated himself with the remarks made by the hon. member for Mount Scio. Mr. Speaker, the record of the House of Assembly clearly states what was contained in the telegram from the hon. the Minister of Fisheries (Mr.

De Bane), who is an honourable man, who has dealt fairly with the Minister of Fisheries for Newfoundland (Mr. Morgan), who said in his telegram, "First of all it is a silly and unfounded charge." Unless he was referring to the charge made by the hon. the member for Mount Scio MR. WARREN: Well, we said he was a liar. MR. DINN: Well, Mr. Speaker, I am not getting into the unparliamentary comments made by the hon. member for Torngat Mountains. I do not want to get down in the mud because one is apt to get the mud on him. So, Mr. Speaker, that was dealt with last week.

The hon. member for Mount Scio in trying to make a name for hi~self got up in this House of Assembly and made a vicious personal attack on the Minister of Fisheries. He was not himself involved in the negotiations at all. There were two people who were involved besides officials ,and one was our Minister of Fisheries who said what the member said was untrue. That should have been enough. Most hon. members 666

March 21, 1984 Tape No. 246 MR. DINN: in this House take the word of an han. gentleman when he speaks. But to get clarificatioP _the Minister of Fisheries in Ottawa (Mr. De_Bane) wrote a telegram to the Premier saying that what the hon. member for Mount Scio ( ~r. Barry) said was silly, unfounded and totally untrue. So I had to get up and put that back on the record again, Mr.

Speaker, because that sort of thing cannot be left on the record of this House of Assembly-And I believe that anytime the NM - 2 han. member gets up with that sort of personal and foo_lish attack on any member of this House that he should be rightly put in his place by an han. gentleman on this side of the House. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. DINN: Now, Mr. Speaker, let us deal with some of the issues-that this government has done nothing for the fishery, that this government has no policy for the fishery.

The han. member was a member of a caucus not too long ago, I believe in June of 1982, when this government outlined quite clearly the policy of the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador with respect to the fishery. The han. member for Stephenville (Mr. Stagg) has a copy down there, I have read it several times myself, it is good reading and I refer it to the han. gentleman for Mount Scio who, Mr. Speaker, I believe will only be a temporary member for Mount Scio. Mr.

Speaker, with respect to negotiations: Since 1980 negotiations have gone on with respect to trawlermen, plant workers, salt fish operations in this Province and the inshore fishery. We have had a lot of trouble with respect to negotiations. I am sure the 667

March 21, 1984 Tape No. 246 MR. DINN: han. member is not asking government, or directing government to impose a settlement on either the union or the companies with respect to labour relations. That is not the way labour relations are carried out in this Province. Labour relations in this Province are carried out under a collective bargaininq system whereby - NM - 3 MR. BARRY: By sending letters telling them not to negotiate. MR. DINN: Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is now breaking the rules of the House. He cannot sit in his seat you see, Mr. Speaker, and listen to debate; he has to charge in there, Mr.

Speaker, and break the rules of the House by interrupting. So I ask the han. member to sit in his place, as I did, and listen to the hon. member. He did not make a lot of sense but I would like to make my few comments now. I do not have,as I say, a lot of time,but I would like to take the little time that I do have just to outline some of the things that are involved with respect to labour relations that the han. member for Fogo {Mr. T~lk),who introduced the resolution, and the han. member for Mount Scio {Mr. Barry) apparently know absolutely nothing about. So what happened with respect to the inshore fishery?

Well,in 1980 we had a strike in the inshore fishery. MR. TULK: What came of that? MR. DINN: Now how was the strike caused in the inshore fishery? Well, Mr. Speaker, they went through the normal negotiating process. The unions and 668

March 21, 1984 Tape No. 246 MR. DINN : the companies at the time asked for conciliation . There was not a minute \•Tent by; the day the letter arrived on the desk for conciliation I had conciliation of=icers out there trying to and attempting to get an agreeM~nt between the parties . Onfortunately,as happens in 669 NH - 4

March 21, 1984 Tape No. 247 SD - 1 MR. DINN: negotiations, sometimes you are not successful in 'getti~g the parties sufficiently close together to get a collective agreement. Now this is not a dictatorship, you do not haul them aside and say, 'You will do it this way'. You do not impose a collective agreement. That is what free collective bargaining is all about. The unions,the employees have a right to strike, the companies, if they cannot afford or if they,cannot comply with what the employees are lookinq for through their representatives, can lockout, and that is what it is all about.

Any government that comes along and imposes a collective agreement might just as well wipe out collective agreements in the Province, might just as well wipe out labour relations. They do not exist if you are going to dictate the terms of a collective agreement. So that did not happen in the inshore fishery, we had a strike and as a result of that strike a Royal Commission was set up~ ~hat commission reported and there was an interim agreement accepted, · and, basically, on the basis of that Royal Commission Report there has been no strike in the inshore fishery since. Now, does that mean that everybody is happy?

No. It means that they have come to terms. There may be some suggestions that the han. member for Mount Scio (.Mr. Barry) relates with respect to international currency and the fact that the Canadian government might be, through its support structures, affecting that international currency· and thus ' possibly should support the inshore fishermen and the fishery in this Province. It is not a bad suggestion but that is the only suggestion the hon. member made in twenty minutes. It has been made by "Unity 84".

It is not a bad suggestion but "Unity 84" is not saying to the provincial government, 'Provincial government, impose a settlement on us'. All the companies,with respect to the restructuring,were 670

March 21, 1984 Tape No. 247 SD - 2 MR. DINN: basically bankrupt. They could not afford to operate. Whether it was inefficiency, whether it was poor management, whether it was cost of product, they just could not afford to operate and they went bankrupt. Now the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan} in this Province, the Minister of Fisheries LMr. De Bane) federally got together and worked out an agreement. The Minister of Fisheries federally, and I have no qualms about what he says, he said '0ur Minister of Fisheries was a hard bargainer and a good bargainer for the Province. The hon. member for Mount Scio (_Mr.

Barryt does not agree,but I l.Jelieve he was. I believe we got a good restructuring agreement. And that restructuring agreement is just basically being put in place now. Only last week the Board of Directors of the new super company was put in place. The CEO is not put in place yet but that will be done shortly I understand. When that happens these people will be the management of the company. They will be the overseers of a successful, hopefully, successful company.

And with everyl.Jody's co~operation the fisheries in that restructured company s·hould do well, should go a long way towards becoming a success in this Province,and I sure hope it does for everybody ''s s·ake, Because whether you live in St. John •· s, or Gander, or Goose Bay·, or Labrador City/ Wabush, if the fishery is good in this Province, this Province is on good grounds. 671

March 21, 1984 Tape No. 248 MJ - l MR. DINN: So, Mr. Speaker, we all have to work together to make sure that this thing works. And it is not only the fishery in this Province, it is the newsprint industry, it is the mining industry, whether it is in Western Labrador or Baie Verte,or the new one that the Minister of Development (Mr. Windsor) is trying to get going down in St. Lawrence, restart down in St. Lawrence.

Whatever it is is it impertinent, is it wrong for the Premier of this Province, the man who has responsibility for all of the Province, is it wrong for him to write a union and say, 'We have to be careful what we are doing here'? The newsT?rint industry is in a very precarious position. Is there anybody in this House does not know that it is? Is there anybody in this House does not know that it is going to take a lot of work on behalf of just about everybody in this Province in order for the fishery to survive in this Province and work? They are not being realistic, they are not in the real world.

So it is going to take everybody, it is going to take the NFFAW, it is going to take the board of directors of the new fish company, it is going to take Abitibi-Price an~ it is going to take their unions 1 and it is going to take the miners in Western Labrador and their employers,whether it is the Iron Ore Company of Canada or Wabush Mines, it is going to take everybody in this Province working together to make sure that we come out of this recession and we move the way we were moving before we went into this recession. What was the situation then?

The situation then _was, if people will recall, that the employment growth in Newfoundland, just before we went into the recession,was the highest employment growth level of any province in Canada. When you think about it,that is something. We were at 6.5. It was ahead of Alberta .. which was approximately at 5, it was ahead of Ontario.And that is what we can get back to 672

March 21, 1984 Tape No. 248 MJ - 2 MR. DINN: if ~-re all work together. If we want to waste our time on personal attacks in this House of Assembly,then the people of this Province are going to kick us out of here because we do not deserve to be here. We do not deserve to be here if that is what the name of the game is going to be.

I tell you,gentlemen,that the name of the game in the next couple of years is going to be that the people of this Province are going to have to see that we are working together, whether it is in labour relations, whether it is mining in Western Labrador, in newsprint, whethe~ it is in the fishery on the Grand Banks, the fishery on the Burin Peninsula, the fishery on the Northeast Coast.

Wherever it is the people of this Province are going to be saying, 'Are these guys working together to make sure that this Province succeeds or are they in there fooling around, bickering ," and having these foolish little personal attacks as to who cried last. How silly and foolish can hon. members get? Let us get up. Let us raise the level of debate in this House for a change, let us see if we can do something for this Province.

Anybody who got into politics fooling himself, thinking that he was going to do something for himself,let me tell you chere is not a member in this House who joes not know that the job is a pretty tough one, that it is not easy on members in this House, it is not easy on 673

March 21,1984 Tape No. 249 ah-1 MR.DINN: families, is not easy on anything. But if we waste our time fooling around attacking one other personally, it makes it just a little bit more d~fficult and the job is a little bit harder to accomplish. So, Mr. Speaker, with respect to labour relations,I can tell the bon members opposite that there is not a day, a night or a second in this Province,if I get a call with respect to assistance in labour relations in the fishery,that I will not have an officer there to sit at that table faster than the unions or the companies can get there.

I made that commitment when I got into the Department. of Labour and Manpower and that commitment still stands. And there is not a union nor a company can say in this Province today that they have not gotten the services of the Department of Labour and Manpower when they needed those services, but you cannot pull off miracles. If they do not want to agree they do not agree 1 and you are going to get strikes and walk outs. I hope we get no more, I am going to do my best to make sure that we do not ,but if you get in a position where they cannot agree,we are not going to become dictators. That day has gone.

We have given the people of this Province rights, their rights to free, collective bargaining and you do not impose-- gentlemen that day is gone, long since gone -you do not impose on people if they do not want to agree. If a man does not want to work for what the employer wants to give him 1he has the right not to. That is what it is all about. So let us forget about this foolish little resolution that talks about labour relations. There is no service that the people with respect to the fishing 674

March 21,1984 Tape No. 249 ah-2 MR. DINN: industry wanted from the government of this Province that they did not get,so how can anybody agree with that as a resolution in this House of Assembly? How can anybody in their right mind? No fisheries policy? Well,we have a fisheries policy. Not doing anything? Well 1 the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) outlined what we are doing for the fishery, $31 million, I believe in a new super company, $30 million last year in loans guarantees for the small and independent plants in this Province to keep them going for another year, $20 million in loans for fishing boats.

We did not tell them to burn them. We got the Fisheries Loan Board to co-operate and loan so that people could buy boats and get out and do some fishing. Yes, there are people who have problems. I venture to say there are doctors who have problems, there are lawyers who have problems; a lot of people have problems, fishermen have problems. But there are a good few fishermen in this Province who are making a buck at the fishery and they are pretty happy that they got some assistance from the Minister of Fisheries through his department to do that.

And it is a bit of a shame when they are going through a bit of a hard time with respect to income taxes that the heavy hand comes down- MR. WARREN: The Minister of Fisheries department. MR.DINN: No, not the Minister of Fisheries department. He is not the Minister of National Revenue. SOME HON . MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR.DINN: Now the han. member for 675

March 21, 1984 Tape No. 249 ah - 3 MR. DINN: Torngat Mountains (Mr. Warren) is interrupting. MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : Order, please! MR. DINN: He will be over soon, Mr. Speaker, genuflecting to the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) about the Northern fisheries. That will be going this year. ·He need not worry about the Northern fisheries this year. That will be going this year because the Minister of Fisheries is concerned about that. He will have his turn to speak in this debate, Mr.

Speaker, and I intend to sit down and listen to what *he han. member says because the odd time the hon. member makes a little sense in this House. MR. TULK: of you, 'Garfield'. MR. BAIRD: MR. DINN: That is the worst he can say Quite odd though. So, Mr. Speaker, we have dispelled the fact that there is no policy. We have talked about the dollars that just last year went into th .e fisheries, put in by the hon. Minister of Fisheries. We talked about his capability with respect to negotiations, and nobody can doubt that for the han. members' colleagues in Ottawa, the Minister of Fisheries in Ottawa (Mr.

De Bane), said wh.at a great negotiator he is. MR. TULK: MR. DINN: You know what we called him. I know what you called him, but, I mean, that is unparliamentary. I do not even want to get down to that. I do not want to get down to that. 676

March 21,1984 Tape No . 249 ah- 4 MR. DINN: Now, Mr . Spe~~er, there is the other hen. member taking about the fisheries,and he brings in a resolution on the fisheries and this morning the hen. ~ister of Fisheries ( ~tr. Morgan) came back and just announced down in Fogo $1 million for the Fogo Co- op to keep it going . MR. TULK: What a member ! MR . DINN: Oh, yes, he is a great member. So , Mr. Speaker, what thanks . On behalf of his constituents 1what did the member for Fogo (Mr . Tulk) do? Well 1 he 677

March 21, 1984 Tape 2.50 EC - 1 MR. DINN: introduced a resolution in the House saying, 'THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that this hon. House direct the present government to put-forward a sound development strategy.' Is there anything wrong with the development strategy in Fogo today with respect to the fishery? It is okay, is it? MR. TULK: MR. DINN: (Inaudible) wrong (inaudible). Is it okay in Fogo today? One million dollars for Fogo today, is it alright? MR. TULK: A million dollars, boy! It is only a loan! Do not be so silly! MR. DINN: It is only a loan, that is all, yes. Where would they get it if they did not get it from the hon. the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) and this government? HR. TULK: MR.

DINN: member for Fogo. MR. TULK: passing out a gift. MR. DINN: Where would they get it? Yes, I will ask the hon. the You would not know but you were It is not a gift,and I know the hon. member does not appreciate it,but the people down in Fogo appreciate it. The over 500 people in the plant in Fogo appreciate it and the fishermen in Fogo appreciate it. The hon. member does not because it does not make him look good, because he is inhere saying that the Minister of Fisheries is doing nothing for the fishery in this Province. But, Mr. Speaker, the han. member does not have a leg to stand on.

When is he going back to Fogo? MR. TULK: Whenever I am required 678

March 21, 1984 Tape 250 EC - 2 MR. DINN: Well, the hon. the member for Trinity North (Mr. Brett) said it today. He said, 'If I ever decide to run down in Fogo, the hon. the member for Fogo (trr. Tulk) will never be heard in this House again.' And I am ~nclined to agree. Because here is the member for Fogo talking about what the government is not doing for the fishery 1 and the Minister of Fisheries (~.

Morgan) got up in the House today and announces $1 million for the Co-op in Fogo to keep it going and 'they are not doing anything for the fisheries in Newfoundland.' We put out a book in 1982 that the han. m~~ber -who is the spokesman, by the way, in the Opposition, for Fisheries - MR. TULK: $8 million yacht. MR. DINN: I am going back to Fogo on an Yes, he is going back to Fogo on an $8 million yacht. Another thing announced in the budget yesterday was a new ferry for Fogo. There you go!

Now the hon. member will ride high on the hog and he will go down and try to get a little bit of credit for it,but how can he go down? He must have a face, Mr. Speaker, like a robber's horse! MR. SPEP;KER (Aylward)_: that his time has expired. MR. DINN: MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: Opposition. MR. NEARY: Order, please! Order, please! I have to inform the hon. me_-rnber Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker. The hon. the Leader of the Mr. Speaker, first of all, let me congratulate the member for Fogo for moving such an important and timely resolution in this hon. House. 679

March 21, 1984 Tape 250 EC- 3' MR. NEARY: I wish also to congratulate my hon. colleagues, the member for Torngat Mountains (Mr. Warren), the member for Port au Port (Mr. Hodder) and the member for Mount Scio (Mr. Barry), who have already spoken in-this debate and given such excellent addresses. I say, Mr. Speaker, that this is probably the most important resolution ever to be brought before this House, because it concerns an industry that directly employed in 1982 approximately 13,000 fishermen directly and provided part-time jobs for another 13,000. The member for Grand Bank (Mr.

Matthews) may not be aware of that. In the processing sector in 1982, another 14,000 were employed. That is a total, Mr. Speaker, of 40,000 people employed either directly or indirectly in the fishing industry in 1982. Many of the communities where you find these plant workers and fishermen, Hr. Speaker, are solely dependent on the fishery and will continue to be for a long time to come. The economy of this Province has survived for 500 years on the fishery and our whole heritage and our way of life in 600 or 700 Newfoundland communities is based on the fishery, Mr. Speaker.

And 1therefore .• I think it will continue that way for a long time to come. And many of our young people will continue to live in rural Newfoundland, at home,because they want to stay home. But, Mr. Speaker, if we are to maintain a vibrant and prosperous rural society, we must make certain that we have a viable fishery in this Province. That was the purpose of my colleague moving ~he resolution that he moved today, Mr. Speaker, to try to influence, pressure, if you want to put it that way, the provincial government into 680

March 21, 1984 Tape 250 EC - 4 MR. NEARY: taking steps, into announcing plans and programmes that would help to remove 681

March 21, 1984 Tape 251 PK - 1 MR. NEARY: the chaotic co~dition the turmoil thatexists today in the Newfoundland and Labrador fishery. Mr. Speaker, the provincial government is a partner in this super company but they must remember, Mr. Speaker, that as partners in that sure~ company .· that it is the primary producers in this Province who come first. It is the people who generate the new dollars, the fishermen, the plant workers, but moreso the fishermen because the fishermen are the primary producers, they generate the new dollars.

They pay 50 per cent of the Premier's salary and 50 per cent of the salary of members in this han. House. MR. PATTERSON: What about the Leader of the Opposition's salary? MR. NEARY: I said 50 per cent of the salary of the members of this House. The other 50 per cent comes from the Government of Canada. MR. PEACH: Are you not the highest paid Leader of the Opposition already in provincial politics? MR. WARREN: He pays his own rent MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, is the han. member jealous? The hon. member is in serious trouble over in Carbonear and he is smarting under that. SOME HON. ~lliMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. NEARY: So, Mr.

Speaker, I would like to be heard in silence if I may. MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : Order, please! MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, when we talk of the great future that now lies ahead .for our fishery- MR. CARTER: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order. MR. SPEAKER: The han. member for St. John's North (Mr. Carter) on a point of order. MR. CARTER: I do not wish to interiupt the member who is making,or starting to make a fairly good speech 1 682

March 21, 1984 Tape 251 PK - 2 MR. CARTER: but it is quite clear that he is reading his speech, and it has been written possibly by himself, but probably by someone else. It has been ghost written. Now I have no objection to listening to a ghost, but I do have every objection to a member reading his speech, especially when the rest of us have been constantly reminded by that hon. gentleman that anything we are reading we should table. So he is welcome to read what he likes, but I think it should be tabled, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Aylward): Order, please!

To that point of order, it is correct that members of the House are not permitted to read their speeches,but the members of this House are permitted to refer to notes from time to time. The hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, when we talk of the great future that now lies ahead for the fisheries in this Province,we must first of all give credit where credit is due 1and in this particular instance,when we are talking about the super company, Mr.

Speaker, we must first of all give credit to the Government of Canada, to the federal government, to Uncle Ottawa, the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. That departme ·nt, Mr. Speaker, is putting $75 million into the restructuring of the deep-sea fishery in this Province 1 and in addition to that are funding a development corporation on the Burin Peninsula. MR. TULK: MR. NEARY: Thirty million dollars. Thirty million dollars. That is $105 million, and all the provincial government is doing, Mr. Speaker, is converting equity into shares in the new super company.

So we must first and foremost give credit where credit is due. There would be no restructuring, as a matter of fact the provincial government abdicated its 683

March 21, 1984 Tape 251 PK - 3 MR. NEARY: responsibility and turned its jurisdiction and its responsibility over to the Government of Canada 1 and this is the same administration that is asking for more control of the fishery. MR . TULK: MR. NEARY: 'Jim' was not allowed to negotiate. Now, Mr. Speaker, the Department of Fisheries and Oceans spent in this Province during the fiscal year 1983-1984, that is just about to come to an end, $80 million. How much is the provincial government spending? MR. TULK: MR. NEARY: fisheries in this Province. MR. TULK: MR. NEARY: In what?

In the development of the Seventeen million. Seventeen million. Ottawa $80 million. Salaries alone make up over $23 million, while the cost of its operations is between $34 million and $37 million. On capital account 1 Fisheries and Oceans are spending to date almost another $12 million. Somebody should write these figures down and total them, another $12 million, while about $4 million will be expended in grants and various contributions to the fishermen in this Province. MR. TULK: Give me all the figures again I do not need ·a pencil. MR. NEARY: There is $23 million, $37 million, $12 million, $4 million.

Now, what is the total amount? MR. TULK: About $76 million. MR. NEARY: $76 million just for research for the operation of the Department of Ocean and Fisheries in this Province. By comparison, Mr. Speaker, for 1983-1984 the Provincial Department of Fisheries will spend only about 684

March 21, 19B4 Tape 251 PK - 4 MR . NEARY : $17,196,000 out of a budget of $1,900,000,000, Mr. Speaker. So we can see the importance and the priority that the administration there opposite place on the fishe ry ~n this Province. Now, Mr. Speaker, in discussing the role of the federal government in our fisheries ; it is easy 685

March 21, 1984 Tc.pe No. 252 SD - l MR. NEARY: to lose sight of the fact that after the extension of the 200 mile limit it was then the federal Fisheries Minister, Mr. Romeo LeBlanc, who fought hard 1 and often against the objection and the criticism and pressure from the Newfoundland government, to preserve part of our fishery for the inshore fishermen. Indeed, Mr. Speaker, it was the policy of the former Tory administration in this Province, the Moores' administration, that favoured joint ventures,if han. members' memories serve them correctly, favoured joint ventures with foreign investors.

In 1977 the provincial government attempted to sell the provincially owned Harbour ~race fish plant to North Sea, a German subsidiary of the joint Anglo-Dutch firm Unilever,which had a share in the Harbour Grace ~ish plant at one point but had sold it. Much of the fish for this plant, Mr. Speaker, I hasten to point out to hon. gentlemen,would have to come from the inshore fis -hery. However, Mr. Speaker, Mr. LeBlanc refused to give fishinq permits to the North Sea trawlers and the proposed project died, and I say thank God for that, it was dropped. For his action Mr.

LeBlanc was strongly condemned by memoers there opposite, Mr. Speaker, strongly condemned by memners of the Moores' goverrnnent , but his action, indeed, was correct. LeBlanc ''s wisdom was borne out to be correct and his courageous stand on this issue, as well as his genuine concern for the interest and welfare of the Province's inshore fi:s·hermen, Mr. Speaker, mus ·t not be lost sight of by members of this House and by the fishermen of this Province. As Mr. LeBlanc said ~ I do not know if my hon, colleagues recall- Mr.

LeBlanc said in 1977, "I have a clear bias for the inshore fishermen,not because of some romantic regard,' ' he said, " not because of hi:s picture on th.e calendars 1 out because he cannot travel far for fish, because h.e depends on fishing for his income 1 because his 686

March 21, 19_84 Tape No. 252 SD - 2 MR. NEARY: fishery being protected."' cornmunity,in turn,depends on his Mr. Speaker, it is to Romeo LeBlanc that Newfoundland and Canada owes almost total control and ownership over its East Coas·t fishery today from foreign investors and the joint ventures·,which may have had the benefit of providing immediate capital to the processing industry 1 but at the price of giving control of the fishery to capitalists in West Germany, Holland and Japan. And, Mr. Speaker, have they abandoned that policy· there opposite? Did we not hear the Minister of Fisheries (Mr.

Morgan1 in November and December,when this House met 1 advocating that foreigners be brought in to catch fish to be processed in Newfoundland plants, to do away with jobs for Newfoundlanders? Mr. Speaker, we must ensure the fishermen and the plant workers of this Province that the fishery remains a Newfoundland industry. And to this end, Sir, I commend my colleagues for supporting and listening to the voice of "Unity 84". MR. PATTERSON: You will get your (inaudible). MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, we will support any measure or any provis·ion that is in the best interests of the fishermen of this Province.

Last session Your Honour will recall that we supported a resolution of 687

March 21, 1984 Tape No. 253 NM - 1 MR. NEARY: this House, calling on the federal government not to allocate any of the Northern cod stocks to non-Newfoundland fishermen until our local needs are first fulfilled. We have also supported, Mr. Speaker, and we will continue to do so, that the Nose and Tail of the Grand Banks be included within the 200 mile limit. We have not heard the position of the administration there opposite, Mr. Speaker, that keeps the fish plants going on the Burin Peninsula. Mr.

Speaker, we also supported and demanded during the restructuring talks in 1983 that all our fish plants which have been closed for whatever reason- I want my colleague to hear this- in 1983, we supported and demanded in the restructuring in 198~ that all our fish plants which had been closed - MR. STAGG: You supported it? MR. NEARY: Yes, we supported it at the People's Conference. We were the first, Mr. Speaker, that for whatever reason they were closed that they be reopened and revitalized with new and secure stocks and capital funding. Mr.

Speaker, there is no doubt, no question on this side of the House, the great and historic Liberal Party of Newfoundland and Labrador has always stood strong for our fishermen, and will continue to stand shoulder to shoulder with them as they struggle, Mr. Speaker, to get social and economic justice under the fishery restructuring. Mr. Speaker, the fish companies, despite their past record of mismanagement and incompetency,· have been bailed out by the federal and provincial governments. I now say it is about time that the 688

March 21, 1984 Tape No. 253 NM - 2 MR. NEARY: governments came to the aid of our fishermen and enable them to earn a decent working wage, Mr. Speaker. This year we are going to see possible chaos in the fishi~g industry this Summer. And, Mr. Speaker, who is responsible for the mess? Well,my colleague for Mount Scio (Mr. Barry) pinpointed the gentleman responsible for the mess, none other than the Provincial Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan). MR. WARREN: Hear, hear~ MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, real incomes of our fishermen have decreased from 1978 to 1979 alone,as we learned from my colleague, the member for Fogo (Mr. T~lk), our spokesman on fisheries,who so ably demonstrated the other day his knowledge of the fishery, that the fishermen of this Province have experienced a loss of 2.5 cents a pound in real cash, in real income. Fishermen's costs have dramatically increased 1 yet the price of fish has stayed virtually the same, Mr. Speaker. And at the same time I might point out for the benefit of hon. gentlemen, that if the Kirby Rep