Manitoba Hansard — Sitting 63 (38th Legislature, 3rd Session)

38-3-63

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session - Thirty-Eighth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. LVI No. 63 - 1:30 p.m., Tuesday, June 14, 2005

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Eighth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation AGLUGUB, Cris The Maples N.D.P. ALLAN, Nancy, Hon. St. Vital N.D.P. ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thom pson N.D.P. BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli N.D.P. BRICK, Marilyn St. Norbert N.D.P. CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P. CULLEN, Cliff Turtle Mountain P.C. CUMMINGS, Glen Ste. Rose P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P. DOER, Gary, Hon. Concordia N.D.P. DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside P.C.

FAURSCHOU, David Portage la Prairie P.C. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach P.C. HAWRANIK, Gerald Lac du Bonnet P.C. HICKES, George, Hon. Point Douglas N.D.P. IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri Fort Garry N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. JHA, Bidhu Radisson N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LAMOUREUX, Kevin Inkster Lib. LATHLIN, Oscar, Hon. The Pas N.D.P. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. LOEWEN, John Fort Whyte P.C. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns N.D.P. MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood N.D.P. MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon.

Lord Roberts N.D.P. MELNICK, Christine, Hon. Riel N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East P.C. MURRAY, Stuart Kirkfield Park P.C. NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake N.D.P. OSWALD, Theresa, Hon. Seine River N.D.P. PENNER, Jack Emerson P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. REIMER, Jack Southdale P.C. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. ROCAN, Denis Carman P.C. RONDEAU, Jim, Hon. Assiniboia N.D.P. ROWAT, Leanne Minnedosa P.C. SALE, Tim, Hon. Fort Rouge N.D.P. SANTOS, Conrad Wellington N.D.P. SCHELLENBERG, Harry Rossmere N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield P.C. SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St. Boniface N.D.P. SMITH, Scott, Hon.

Brandon West N.D.P. STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon. Dauphin-Roblin N.D.P. SWAN, Andrew Minto N.D.P. TAILLIEU, Mavis Morris P.C. WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. Swan River N.D.P.

3565 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Tuesday, June 14, 2005 The House met at 1:30 p.m. PRAYERS ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS PETITIONS Education Support Levy and Special Levy Mrs. Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. These are the reasons for this petition: All Manitobans are concerned about providing a high quality of education to students. The current model of funding education through property taxes no longer works.

Education is a provincial responsibility and provincial funding of the operation of Manitoba's public schools has fallen every year under the current Doer administration to the most current level of 56 percent. Residential property tax bills continue to rise as local school divisions are forced to turn to property owners to offset decreasing provincial government funding. The Minister of Education (Mr. Bjornson) has shown little action in finding a long-term solution to providing school divisions with predictable, stable and appropriate funding for public education.

Manitobans pay among the highest property taxes in all of Canada. The elimination of the Education Support Levy and Special Levy on residential property and farmland would reduce property tax bills by approxi- mately one-half and enhance transparency and accountability in the funding of public education. We petition the Legislative Assembly as follows: To request the Premier of Manitoba (Mr. Doer) to consider accepting that the funding and delivery of public education is exclusively a provincial respon- sibility.

To request the Premier of Manitoba to consider eliminating the Education Support Levy and Special Levy from all residential property and farmland in Manitoba. Signed by Bob Matias, Judy Matias and Vera Loader. Mr. Speaker: In accordance with our Rule 132(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House. Crocus Investment Fund Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba.

The background to this petition is as follows: The Manitoba Government was made aware of serious problems involving the Crocus Fund back in 2001. As a direct result of the government ignoring the red flags back in 2001, over 33 000 Crocus investors lost over $60 million. Manitoba's provincial auditor stated "We believe the department was aware of the red flags at Crocus and failed to follow up on those in a timely fashion." The relationship between some union leaders, the Premier (Mr. Doer) and the NDP seems to be the primary reason as for why the government ignored the red flags.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba to consider the need to seek clarification on why the government did not act on fixing the Crocus Fund back in 2001.

3566 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 14, 2005 Signed by Pablito Sarinas, Marieta Sarinas, Cecilia Catolico. * (13:35) Wuskwatim Project Development Agreement Mrs. Bonnie Mitche lson (River East): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background of this petition is as follows: The Government of Manitoba and Manitoba Hydro have stated publicly that a referendum vote including all NCN band members will be held as part of the approval process for the Wuskwatim Hydro Project.

The Government of Manitoba and Manitoba Hydro have stated that the Wuskwatim Hydro Project and associated hydro transmission lines will not proceed without the support of the majority of NCN band members through the Wuskwatim Project Development Agreement Referendum. NCN band members were not properly informed and consulted concerning the terms and implication of the Wuskwatim Agreement in Principle. The partnership agreement to be approved by the Wuskwatim PDA Referendum will largely determine the economic future of NCN First Nations.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the Minister responsible for Manitoba Hydro (Mr. Chomiak) and the Government of Manitoba consider ensuring an informed, appropriate and fair Wuskwatim Project Develop- ment Agreement Referendum vote, and a vote overseen by an independent qualified third party such as Elections Manitoba. Signed by Harry Moose, Isabel Moose, Ken Moose and many others. Fort Garry Hotel Mr. Denis Rocan (Carman): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba.

The background of this petition is as follows: In 1987 the City of Winnipeg seized the Fort Garry Hotel from its owner, Harvard Investments Limited, a family-owned Manitoba corporation, in what has been characterized as a miscarriage of justice. Due to deliberate actions of the City of Winnipeg, errors by the Municipal Board of Manitoba and a lack of clarity in provincial legislation, Harvard was denied the due process and natural justice that are fundamental to the property tax assessment and appeal process in Manitoba.

As a result, the company was unfairly burdened with a grossly excessive assessment and tax bill that in turn precipitated a ta x sale and mortgage fore- closure, effectively bankrupted the company and caused Harvard's shareholders to be dispossessed of their business and property. The background to this petition was outlined more fully in a grievance presented to this Assembly by the honourable Member for Carman (Mr. Rocan) on May 18, 2005. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs and Trade (Mr.

Smith) to consider con- ducting a review of the circumstances outlined and to consider making a recommendation for redress to the Government of Manitoba. Signed Mitch Charles, Jaren Valel, C.T. Daher and many others. Teachers' Pension Plan Pension Adjustment Account Mr. Larry Maguire (Arthur-Virden): I wish to present the following petition.

The background to this petition is as follows: After contributing to the Teachers' Pension Plan Adjustment Account (PAA) which funds the Cost of Living Adjustment (COLA) since 1977 until the year of our retirement from the profession of teaching, we find ourselves facing the future with little hope of a

June 14, 2005 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3567 meaningful COLA, and with the resulting severe loss of purchasing power. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the provincial government to consider funding the PAA to ensure that we receive a reasonable COLA, and that any loss of purchasing power we will face will be minor. This petition has been signed by Dennis Eirikson, Fred Waines, Mary Ellen Roach, Mildred Harkness and many, many others. * (13:40) Mr. Cliff Cullen (Turtle Mountain): Mr.

Speaker, I ask for leave to present the petition on behalf of the Member for Steinbach (Mr. Goertzen). Mr. Speaker: Does the honourable member have leave? [Agreed] Coverage of Insulin Pumps Mr. Cullen: I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. These are the reasons for this petition: Insulin pumps cost over $6,500. The cost of diabetes to the Manitoba government in 2005 will be approximately $214.4 million. Each day 16 Manitobans are diagnosed with this disease compared to the national average of 11 new cases daily.

Good blood sugar control reduces or eliminates kidney failure by 50 percent, blindness by 76 percent, nerve damage by 60 percent, Diabetes is an epidemic in our province and will become an unprecedented drain on our struggling health care system if we do not take action now. The benefit of having an insulin pump is it allows the person living with this life-altering disease to obtain good control of their blood sugar and become much healthier, complication-free indi- viduals. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the Premier (Mr.

Doer) of Manitoba to consider covering the cost of insulin pumps that are prescribed by an endocrinologist or medical doctor under the Manitoba Health Insurance Plan. Signed by Jim Webster, Peter Kroeker, Blaine Williamson and many others. COMMITTEE REPORTS Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development Second Report Ms. Marilyn Brick (Chairperson): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the Second Report of the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development. Madam Clerk (Patricia Chaychuk): Your Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development presents the following– Some Honourable Members: Dispense.

Mr. Speaker: Dispense. Your Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development presents the following as its Second Report. Meetings: Your committee met on Monday, June 13, 2005, at 6:30 p.m. in Room 255 of the Legislative Building. Matters under Consideration: Bill 207 – The Medical Amendment Act/Loi modifiant la Loi médicale Committee Membership: Substitutions received prior to commencement of meeting: Mr. Derkach for Mr. Cummings Mrs. Stefanson for Mr. Rocan Mr. Penner for Mrs. Rowat Hon. Mr. Sale for Hon. Mr. Lathlin Mr. Jennissen for Hon. Ms. McGifford Ms. Korzeniowski for Hon. Mr. Rondeau Mr.

Aglugub for Hon. Mr. Smith Mr. Dewar for Hon. Ms. Wowchuk

3568 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 14, 2005 Public Presentations: Your committee heard eight presentations on Bill 207–The Medical Amendment Act/Loi modifiant la Loi médicale, from the following individuals and organizations: Harry Morstead, Citizens for Choice in Healthcare Dr. Darlene Boushard, Manitoba Society of Homeo- pathic Physicians Dr.

Shoshana Scott, Private Citizen Linda West, Private Citizen Ian Breslaw, Private Citizen Nathan Zassman, Private Citizen Perry Kimelman, Private Citizen Helke Ferrie, The Glasnost Group and Cos Publishing Written Submissions: Your committee received two written submissions on Bill 207–The Medical Amendment Act/Loi modifiant la Loi médicale, from the following individuals: Florence Matthews, Private Citizen Father Methodius Kushko, Private Citizen Bills Considered and Reported: Bill 207–The Medical Amendment Act/Loi modifiant la Loi médicale Your committee agreed to report this bill, with the following amendment: THAT the proposed clause 36.1, as set out in Clause 2 of the Bill, be replaced with the following: Non-traditional therapies 36.1 Despite

section 36 and Parts VIII to X, a member shall not be found guilty of professional misconduct or of incompetence solely on the basis that the member practises a therapy that is non-traditional or departs from the prevailing medical practice, unless it can be demonstrated that the therapy poses a greater risk to a patient's health or safety than the traditional or prevailing practice. * (13:45) Ms. Brick: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Flin Flon (Mr. Jennissen), that the report of the committee be received. Motion agreed to. TABLING OF REPORTS Hon.

Gord Mackintosh (M inister of Justice and Attorney General): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to table the Annual Report for 2003 Concerning Complaints about Judicial Conduct. MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS Red River Floodway Operation Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister of Water Steward- ship): Mr. Speaker, I rise to present a statement to the House regarding the operation of the Red River Floodway. Mr.

Speaker, the Province of Manitoba will operate the floodway gates on an emergency basis today to lower river levels within the city of Winnipeg to reduce the probability of widespread basement flooding and the resulting risk to health and damage to property. This operation is required as the result of the current high level of the Red River. It is currently 15.9 feet above James Avenue level and 749.2 feet at the floodway inlet and th e forecast of continued rising levels to a crest of at least 17.5 feet or more at James Avenue by later this week.

All indications are that these levels will remain high for several weeks, and there is a potential for heavy rains over the city of Winnipeg in the next two to three weeks. As was the case in June of 2002 and 2004, overland flooding south of the inlet structure will occur. We have been able to increase our notice times through the media to allow 24 hours public advance notice. To better assist residents in their preparedness, staff from the Emergency Measures Organization have also been placing calls to individuals in the affected areas to inform them of this operation as soon as possible.

Manitobans along the river are advised to relocate movable items and equipment such as docks, pumps, vehicles and other property to reduce the damage that may occur. The Province of Manitoba will compensate property owners affected by the emergency operation of the floodway. Similar to previous summer operations, the Province will implement a compensation program for damages suffered by landowners arising from flooding caused by this operation.

June 14, 2005 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3569 Floodway operation will begin at 6:30 p.m. today, June 14. The gates will be operated in stages to control the rate of the river drawdown in the city of Winnipeg to minimize impacts along the river- bank. Rises of 2 to 3 feet per day should be expected upstream of the floodway inlet until the crest is reached. Some variation in daily rises of the Red will occur depending on where one's property is located and the rate of rise of the river upstream. Our river levels upstream of the floodway will not be permitted to rise higher than 760 feet above sea level.

The Portage Diversion is also operating to reduce the flow of the Assiniboine River water into the Red River. Diversion operations will also manage water levels from Portage la Prairie to Headingley. Mr. Speaker, the Shellmouth Dam is also being operated to prevent further increases in the level of the Lake of the Prairies while keeping flow in the Assiniboine River downstream of the dam within its banks. The Province will continue to monitor events along the Red River and conduct operation of the floodway to provide the most effective and efficient use for flood protection for all Manitobans. Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Jack Penner (Emerson): Mr. Speaker, again, as yesterday, we thank the minister for the update on the flood conditions and the river levels in the province of Manitoba. I want to say to the members of this Legislature that it is because of the foresight of one Premier Duff Roblin and the action that he and his government took that we are able to now offer protection to a large urban centre, namely the city of Winnipeg, and that we can prevent basement flooding.

We must also recognize as legislators and members of society that when we do take those kinds of action we artificially raise the water levels upstream of any streams, or when we take preven- tative measures to stop flooding of urban areas or damages to buildings then we as a society have an obligation to ensure that proper and adequate compensation is paid to those people that occur the damages upstream. I refer in large part to areas in the western part of the province where culverts were shut in order to protect a village and other town properties. I say to you, Mr.

Minister, and the government opposite, that those people whether they be grain farmers or whether they be vegetable producers as we see along the Red River upstream of the floodway mechanism that will see probably large parts of this province flooded from between here and the U.S. border that this Province must take adequate action to ensure that proper compensation of all losses that they have incurred and the potential of the production of those areas th at are flooded artificially need to be properly compensated. Mr.

Speaker, we have s een an event this spring such as we have seldom ever seen in the Red River Valley especially and in western Manitoba. I believe that it is imperative that all of us pay attention to what is going on. Some farmers will tell you in the Red River Valley, east of the Red River, that this is the fourth year that they have incurred these kinds of losses and that our farm programs such as crop insurance and the AIDA program are developed in such a manner that they ratchet down according to production levels every year.

One of the farmers told me this spring, he said, "My AIDA program is no good to me this year." He said, "I will not qualify for AIDA and my crop insurance levels have dropped from 38 bushels to 20 bushels an acre." There must be something done about that, Madam Minister. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, I ask for leave to speak to the minister's statement. Mr. Speaker: Does the honourable member have leave? Some Honourable Members: Leave. Mr. Speaker: Leave has been granted. Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the Minister of Water Stewardship (Mr.

Ashton) for his timely statement today to bring us up to date in terms of the status of the floodway and the status of the operation of the Portage Diversion. I think it is a signal of the severity of the conditions at the moment that the floodway needs to be used at this particular point of time. I think that it is important that we express our gratitude to the people who live south of the floodway and our apologies to them for their being flooded as a result of the protection that is being offered to the city of Winnipeg. I would hope that the

3570 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 14, 2005 Minister of Water Stewardship (Mr. Ashton) would send a letter to those who are affected with the terms of compensation but also expressing this apology for the action that had to be taken and an explanation of why this is, because I think too often the people south of the floodway feel that they have not been treated with adequate sensitivity or care. I think that this would be an important step if the minister would consider it. Thank you. Introduction of Guests Mr.

Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the Speaker's Gallery where we have with us today Jacqueline and Almer McKerlie. Mr. and Mrs. McKerlie are the parents of JoAnn, our Clerk Assistant at the table. On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you here today. We also have seated in the public gallery from Concord School Grades 1 to 11 students under the direction of Ms. Helen Campbell. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable Member for Lakeside (Mr. Eichler).

On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you here today. * (13:50) ORAL QUESTIONS Crocus Investment Fund Public Inquiry Request Mr. Stuart Murray (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, yesterday we learned from the new board of Crocus that the share value may be well less than the $7 that was announced just two months ago. Almost 34 000 Manitobans have lost over half of their retirement savings in Crocus. They want and they deserve to know the truth of what happened, yet the NDP government is intent in doing all it can to avoid the truth and to cover up the facts.

The Auditor General could not answer why the NDP government ignored so many red flags, why the NDP government failed to protect 34 000 investors and why this NDP government stood idly by while they were fleeced of $60 million. I want to ask the Minister of Finance does he not see the need for a public inquiry in light of all these serious allegations on this scandal, Mr. Speaker. Hon. Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, the member is actually inaccurate in his statement.

The Auditor General was very clear in identifying why there was a role conflict inside the Department of Industry and how that prevented them from putting sufficient emphasis on the monitoring role and putting too much emphasis on the promotional role. He also identified that there was an overreliance on trust. We have accepted those recommendations.

We are going to separate those roles, and we have brought in stronger legislation which will apply the rule of law in the place of trust in order to ensure that the public policy objectives of any labour-sponsored venture capital fund in this province are lived up to. Information Tabling Request Mr. Stuart Murray (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, the Auditor General identified two very significant red flags, memos from officials in Industry in 2001 and in Finance in 2002.

Yet, the Minister of Finance said in this House that the memos, and I quote what the minister said, "They should be released to anybody who wants to inves- tigate any of the activities that are going on here." Well, Mr. Speaker, we on this side on behalf of the 34 000 Crocus shareholders and all Manitobans want to investigate the actions and inactions of this NDP government. On behalf of those who have been fleeced by more than $60 million through the incompetence, the inaction and the ignorance of this NDP government, will the Minister of Finance simply table the content of the memos, excluding the names?

Will he maintain and put those memos forward today? Hon. Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, the Auditor Genera l fully describes what was contained in the memos on page 145. I refer the member opposite to that paragraph. An official from the Department of Finance suggested CIF's, being the Crocus Fund's continuing requests for legislative amendments could be a sign of management issues and that an independent review of CIF's operations may be in order. That is what the memo said. That is what the Auditor reported and our privacy and our Freedom of Information officer said very clearly that

June 14, 2005 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3571 the Resource Manual for our Information and Protection of Privacy prepared in February '99 should be followed. Of course all this information is available to the Auditor General. Of course all this information is available to any criminal investigation which will be followed up as announced today. All of that has been fully disclosed. Mr. Murray: Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance said yesterday that we want to make sure investors are treated fairly.

Well, treating investors fairly begins with knowing what the facts are and what the truth is on this Crocus scandal. The Minister of Finance expressed concern about revealing the names of competent and capable civil servants who did their jobs warning this Premier (Mr. Doer) and this NDP government of problems at Crocus, warnings which were ignored by this NDP government. Mr. Speaker, if that is true, the minister need only block out the names of the civil servants and put the content of the memo and table it here in the House. Why is this minister refusing to table that memo?

What and who is he hiding? * (13:55) Mr. Selinger: What we are doing is we are ensuring that the policy put in place by the members opposite in February '99 for the protection of information and privacy ensures that civil servants can have a full and frank discussion without fear or favour, without any fear that their heads will roll as members opposite have suggested. All that information– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Selinger: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. All that information, that e-mail has been fully provided to the Auditor General.

That e-mail will be fully provided to the criminal investigation undertaken by the police officers. We will ensure that our civil service can give us advice and opinions without fear or favour. We will ensure that any criminal inves- tigation has full access to the information, and we will make sure this does not ever happen again. Crocus Investment Fund Information Tabling Request Mrs. Bonnie Mitche lson (River East): Mr. Speaker, this Minister of Finance has made so many conflicting statements about the internal memos and the memos that he received and I think– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr.

Speaker: Order. Mrs. Mitchelson: Well, Mr. Speaker, I think the Minister of Finance has confused himself with the conflicting answers that he has given on this issue. All that the shareholders and the taxpayers of Manitoba want is the truth. They want to know what went on behind closed doors in the Minister of Finance's office. Mr. Speaker, a very simple question. Will the minister stand up today, come clean, black out the names of the officials who did their job in his department and table the memo so we can get to the bottom of this scandal? Hon. Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): Mr.

Speaker, I will take the strong advice and recom- mendation of the Freedom of Information officer in my department, and I will follow that as he has strongly recommended under a– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Selinger: –policy put in place in February '99. Members opposite followed it. Today we have an announcement of a criminal investigation, the special prosecutor. We said we would follow up on everything the Auditor General has recommended.

Immediately upon receiving a draft copy of the report, we arranged for a special prosecutor in the province of Ontario to examine the report, the final copy of the report, plus any other information that has been referred to him, and he has come back today and recommended a police inves- tigation. That will ensue, Mr. Speaker. Mrs. Mitchelson: Mr. Speaker, the lack of confidence of taxpayers in the province of Manitoba as a result of this Minister of Finance's flipping and

3572 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 14, 2005 flopping; one day he sees the memo and the next day he does not. Can we have the truth from this Minister of Finance? Mr. Speaker, taxpayers have entrusted $8 billion of their hard-earned money in this minister's hands. Will he stand up today? Will he tell the truth? Will he share the memo? Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. An Honourable Member: It is just asking to tell the truth. Mr. Speaker: Order. Information brought to this Chamber by all members is factual information as far as the Speaker is concerned.

I caution all members to pick and choose their words carefully. Mrs. Mitchelson: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, but I only have to quote the Premier (Mr. Doer) when he said that the truth shall set me free. Will the Minister of Finance stand up today, echo his Premier's words that said the truth shall set me free and table the documents, table the memos so that Manitobans can get to the bottom of this cover- up? * (14:00) Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, let us remember it is only because we gave this special power to the Auditor General to investigate labour-sponsored venture capital funds.

It is only because of this special power that the Auditor General was able to have access to this e-mail, and he has made his comments on it fully on page 145. We have fully accepted that. We have also followed up on our obligation to protect freedom of discussion, freedom of expression of opinion among our public servants. Without their ability to do that without fear or favour, without fear of their heads rolling, we will not get the advice we need. We have received, we have carefully reviewed this matter.

It is completely available to all the authorities which wish to investigate it, and members opposite know why they put their policy in place. Mrs. Mitchelson: Mr. Speaker, the officials in the Finance Department and the Industry Department did their jobs. They raised flags with this Minister of Finance, and he chose to ignore them– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Members who wish to have a conversation, we have empty loges that members are welcome to use. Remember that the clock is ticking. We are trying to get as many questions and answers in as we can. Mrs.

Mitchelson: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. The 34 000 Manitobans who have been fleeced by the incompetence of this government and the taxpayers of Manitoba who have had to bear the burden as a result of th e incompetence of this government and this Minister of Finance deserve to know the truth. Will the Minister of Finance stand up today, come clean and ensure that the memos are tabled so the shareholders and the taxpayers can see what he is covering up? Mr. Selinger: Once again, Mr.

Speaker, with the legislation we have provided the Auditor General, he has had full access to the e-mail conversation between public servants inside the system. He has full access to it, and, in addition, we have ensured that civil servants can operate with full and frank discussion of issues without fear or favour without any recrimination. Both of these things are being addressed properly. We have fully disclosed anything the Auditor General wishes to pursue. At the same time we have protected the integrity of civil servants to have a full, free and frank discussion.

We have struck the proper balance between disclosure to the authorities and the ability of a civil service in a democratic society to function without fear or favour. That is the appro- priate balance. We have struck it. Crocus Investment Fund True North Entertainment Centre Mr. John Loewen (Fort Whyte): Mr. Speaker, the minister should be protecting his own integrity by tabling the memo with the House immediately.

June 14, 2005 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3573 In 2001 and 2002, while the government was aware of problems at the Crocus Fund regarding liquidity, the government had been informed by their department then at the same time they were negotiating a deal with the private sector to construct a new downtown arena. As part of that deal, they agreed to give Crocus Fund and the owners of the Manitoba Moose, of which the Crocus Fund was 50 percent, credit for a $10-million in-kind donation for their contribution of the hockey team into this project.

This was agreed to in a letter dated March 23, 2003, from the government. I would ask the Minister of Finance today if he can stand up and assure Manitobans that, as a result of this negotiation, there was no further money lost by the unitholders as a result of the negotiations undertaken by this government to construct the True North centre. Hon. Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, the member refers to a document. I would ask him to table this document in the House. We will look at the document, but I can assure the members opposite that we are very clear they opposed the True North arena downtown.

They have made that very clear from day one. That arena is up and functioning. There were contractual arrangements entered into on that. It– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. I need to be able to hear the questions and the answers in case there is a breach of a rule, so I ask the co-operation of all honourable members. Mr. Selinger: The member asks whether any specific arrangement will have any negative impact on shareholder value. There are a number of allegations with respect to valuations being currently reviewed. They are listed on the Web site by the Manitoba Securities Commission.

They have the full prerogative, and we have asked them to go back as far as they wish to go within the Crocus Fund with regard to reviewing anything with respect to valua- tions of any transactions which they have entered into. Mr. Loewen: Mr. Speaker, I want to assure the minister I am fully prepared to table this memo, regardless of whether he is going to table his memo, but I would ask him to do that at the same time. The facts are clear. I spok e with the president of the AHL in January, Mr. Speaker.

He indicated that there were AHL franchises av ailable for sale for in the neighbourhood of 2 to $3 million U.S. Yet this government has given in their negotiations a $10- million credit. It is a simple question. The unitholders have a right to know. This government has had the valua- tions for a number of weeks.

I am simply asking them to stand up and assure the unitholders that, as a result of negotiations undertaken by this government, the unitholders have not been penalized, that they have not lost money and had to have one of the Crocus investments devalued as a result of some- thing that was given up by this government in negotiations. Can the Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger) answer that? Hon. Jim Rondeau (Minister of Industry, Economic Development and Mines): The member opposite again is confused about whose job it is to make deals on behalf of the Crocus Fund. We do not manage the Crocus Fund.

We do not do the deals on the Crocus Fund. So what we have done is we have allowed the Crocus Fund to work and manage the fund day to day. They managed the investments on a day-to-day basis. We do not do that as a government, and so what has happened is we have allowed that. If you look at the issues, the issues as have been brought to our attention are on the pacing and other issues that we have never denied. What we are trying to deal with now is the issue of valuation that was not brought up to us earlier. Mr. Loewen: Mr. Speaker, the reality here is that this is a direct and government involvement.

It is a direct negotiation that to ok place between govern- ment, and the government agreed to give a $10- million value to the owners of the hockey team, 50 percent of which was owned by Crocus. The Premier (Mr. Doer) on a number of occasions has stood in this House and said quite proudly that he put the puck in the net. All we are asking is at the same time did he stuff 34 000 Manitobans in the net with that puck. Unitholders have a right to know. As a result of negotiations undertaken by this government to construct the True

3574 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 14, 2005 North Centre have unitholders been penalized? Has there been a writedown at Crocus of the value in the Manitoba Moose hockey t eam as a result of $10 million in credit given by this government? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, in every province it is the role of the Securities Commission to review any issues with respect to valuations, prospectus disclo- sures, the accuracy of those disclosures.

We have already asked, as a result of the Auditor General's recommendations, for the Securities Commission to go back and to review any matter related to any valuations or disclosure items, including any specific matters. This matter is fully available for review by the Securities Commission. The current allegations that they have made with respect to the Crocus Fund are listed on the Web site. Public hearings will be available. Normally public hearings have public access provided to them.

The Securities Commission has the full ability to inves- tigate any specific transaction for whether or not it has been properly valued. Crocus Investment Fund Manitoba Securities Commission Review Mr. Gerald Hawranik (Lac du Bonnet): Mr. Speaker, the Auditor General reported that the Manitoba Securities Commission knew that Crocus broke Securities' rules thre e times over the last four years. The Securities Commission handled all three infractions internally and never disclosed them to the public. In 2002, the Securities Commission was placed under the responsibility of the Minister of Finance.

All trades of Crocus were required to be reviewed by the Securities Commission, but they were not. I ask the Minister of Finance were you aware that Crocus was breaking the rules and that the Securities Commission was not reviewing all trades of Crocus shares. Hon. Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, the member opposite should know and I believe he does know that the Manitoba Securities Commission is a quasi-judicial body. It has the powers of the Court of Queen's Bench with respect to any investigations, and to quote– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order.

I remind all honourable members I need to be– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. * (14:10) Mr. Speaker: Order. When the Speaker is standing all members should be seated and the Speaker should be heard in silence. I need to be able to hear all the questions and all the answers. I ask once again the co-operation of all honourable members, please. Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, a quasi-judicial body does not report on its day-to-day activities to a minister. A quasi-judicial body stands independent from government.

The former Premier, when the members opposite were in government, said very clearly that I am sure the members opposite would not want me to intervene or interfere with a quasi- judicial tribunal such as the Manitoba Securities Commission. The member knows that. Why is he asking for us to do anything different? Mr. Hawranik: Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance should also know that the Manitoba Securities Commission reports to this minister. The Auditor General has stated that the Securities Commission is a critical control feature of the Crocus Fund.

It was the responsibility of the Securities Commission to monitor Crocus and since 2002 the Securities Commission is the responsibility of the Minister of Finance. I ask the Minister of Finance this. The Securities Commission is within your Department of Finance. Why did you not fulfil your responsibility to the 34 000 unitholders? Why did you not protect them? Mr. Selinger: I just simply must correct the member on his inaccurate facts. The Manitoba Securities Commission is not within the Department of Finance. It is a quasi-judicial body. It stands separate and independent from government like the courts do.

The courts do not report to the Minister of Justice. The Manitoba Securities Commission does not report to me on its day-to-day activities. We are responsible for ensuring funding and a legislative mandate for the commission, and then it operates freely and independently to do its job to

June 14, 2005 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3575 ensure that valuations and disclosures are properly done by anybody issuing securities within the province of Manitoba. The member opposite knows that. He surely is distorting reality. Mr. Hawranik: Mr. Speaker, this Minister of Finance continually stands up and takes credit for some of the things that the Securities Commission does, and now he should take responsibility for what the Securities Commission has done. You cannot have it both ways. In 2002 the Securities Commission was placed under the watch of this Finance Minister.

The Securities Commission handled all three breaches of the Securities' rules internally within the Finance Minister's own depart- ment, yet he chose to turn a blind eye to all those red flags. I ask the Minister of Finance why did you choose to turn a blind eye to all those red flags. Was it direction from a higher authority or was it because of advice from your union friends, or was it both? Mr. Selinger: Mr.

Speaker, if the member opposite was responsible for the S ecurities Commission and he did what he is suggesting, if he interfered, if he had a commission, an independent quasi-judicial body report to him, he would have to resign. He knows that. It is an independent body and the body is functioning exactly as it should. If there are legislative changes required on the job it does the implementation committee will make recommen- dations to government. We will bring forward the appropriate legislation. In the meantime, it has to operate freely and independently without reporting to anybody. The member knows that.

Trading Activity Information Tabling Request Mr. Leonard Derkach (Russell): Mr. Speaker, unfortunately, the Crocus scandal has resulted in more unanswered questions from this government than answered questions. The Attorney General in his report clearly indicates that those in government, pardon me, Auditor General, I am sorry. He indicates very clearly that those in government had more information than the public at large. Trades that were made in Crocus could well have been made on the basis of inside knowledge about the situation at Crocus. Mr.

Speaker, I want to ask the Minister of Finance if he will table the trades that were made in Crocus for the last three years. Will the minister table the trades that were made by Cabinet, senior government officials, senior government appointees and the members of those families? Hon. Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): This is really an incredible question from the member opposite. The member opposite is asking for blatant interference in the affairs of an organization set up in 1993.

When that organization was set up in 1993, the Minister of Finance of the day, the one Clayton Manness, the member of the time, said he wanted that organization to operate independent from government. He wanted the organization to operate as a private corporation independent from govern- ment. They are responsible for their trades. They are responsible for monitoring their trades, and the Securities Commission, the quasi-judicial arm's- length body from government, is responsible for the monitoring of that. The member opposite knows that.

His request is clearly outside the bounds of proper procedure in this province. Mr. Derkach: I am sure that the Minister of Finance understands the term "insider information on trading." For the last three years, individuals inside government obviously knew far more than the public about the situation at Crocus. Mr. Speaker, 34 000 unitholders and taxpayers want to know if those in government who knew more about Crocus than they did had an advantage in terms of trading at the Securities Commission.

I ask the minister if he will table the trades over the last three years for me mbers inside government, his Cabinet, appointees to government, senior government officials and also families. Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, when we received the draft report from the Auditor General, and the draft report indicated there could have been criminal activity, we immediately referred it to the Deputy Attorney General who immediately referred it to an outside special prosecutor. That special prosecutor has come back with a recommendation for a police investigation.

If the member opposite has any specific information or allegations with respect to any improper behaviour of a criminal nature I recom- mend he refer it directly to the Deputy Attorney

3576 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 14, 2005 General or the RCMP, who have agreed to conduct this investigation. He should not play politics. He should make sure that any information is brought to the attention of the police authorities doing the investigation. They will do an investigation com- pletely free of fear or favour. Mr. Derkach: The only way that Manitobans will know, the only way that those who are investigating will know is if the minister is able to table today those trades that were made by Cabinet members, government appointees and their families.

I am asking the minister if he, in fact, will table that information so that indeed we can get to the bottom of this. Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, this is really quite amusing. There is only one conversation that a politician has put on the public record that is part of the criminal investigation. The criminal investigation is completely independent of government. It is conducted by the RCMP.

They can review any of the matters that the Auditor General identified on pages 164, 165, with respect to fraud affecting the public market, with respect to a false prospectus, with respect to counselling offences or any other matter. They can go wherever the evidence will take them, and that is the kind of recommendation that we support. Let them do their job. Let them go wherever the evidence will take them. Crocus Investment Fund Information Tabling Request Mr. John Loewen (Fort Whyte): Mr.

Speaker, what the Minister of Finance is forgetting is that his government and he, in particular, have an obligation to share what information they have with taxpayers and unitholders. The Minister of Finance, who is also the chair of Treasury Board, is responsible for the integrity of the tax system and the spending of $8 billion of taxpayers' money. He has a special obligation to the citizens of Manitoba to act with credibility and competence and to demonstrate integrity beyond reproach.

This minister seems more interested in hiding information than he does in bringing infor- mation to this House so that people can know what really went on. He is more interested in keeping information from public view than in sharing it with the public. I would ask the Minister of Finance today to commit to the principles of credibleness, of compe- tence and to show some integrity by agreeing to table the memos and to answering any and all questions that have been asked today. Hon. Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, we have provided all the information any authority has requested of us.

We will continue to do that. We will continue to fully co-operate with any investigation going on. That is exactly why we referred it to an outside special prosecutor. We gave the Auditor General new powers. We provided the best consumer protection legislation in the history of the province. We have referred every criminal alle- gation to an outside special prosecutor. We referred any tax evasion issues to the revenue collection agency, and we have committed to ensuring follow- up that will ensure this kind of thing cannot happen again. The items referred to, Mr.

Speaker, are identified on pages 164 and 165 in the report. They will be reviewed by the proper police authorities. * (14:20) Mr. Loewen: What the minister is purposefully ignoring is the fact that under a democratic system he has the responsibility to answer questions members pose to him in this House. He has the responsibility to the public, to the taxpayers and the unitholders to bring forward information that will be of use and vital to their cause. He is completely ignoring them. He is the chair of Treasury Board. He is in charge of the Manitoba Securities Commission.

He had been warned by his department officials as early as 2001, yet he continued on with negotiations which he will not give us any information about. He was warned by outsiders, he was warned by insiders, and, yet, over and over and over again, he has turned a blind eye to everyone in Manitoba who had concerns about the Crocus Fund. I would ask him today if he believes that this is the type of competence that Manitobans deserve from their Finance Minister. Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, members opposite had 11 years to upgrade The Auditor General Act. We did it in our first two years in office.

The members opposite had 11 years to increase protection for consumers with class proceedings legislation. We

June 14, 2005 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3577 have done it and it has been proclaimed as of January 2003. Mr. Speaker, this government has put in place better mechanisms for inspection of where public dollars go than have ever been created in the history of the province. This government has provided the best consumer protection in the history of this province, and in order to ensure that the public policy arena operates without fear and favour, this government, for the first time in history, has banned corporate and union don ations. The members opposite do not support that. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Mr. Speaker: Order. The honourable Member for Fort Whyte, with his second supplementary question. Mr. Loewen: Mr. Speaker, in the interest of the minister's rewriting of history, I would also remind him that his is the only government that the Auditor General of this province has ever qualified his report on the financial statements by saying, "They were misleading by omission." That is something that this government should be accountable for. He bungled the raiding of Hydro to a tune of $150 million when he tried to go against The Hydro Act before it had been changed.

He has had the Auditor General call his statements misleading by omission, and they do not reflect the true state of the Province's finances. Now he is refusing to answer the simplest, the most basic questions on this Crocus file, which has cost Manitobans and unitholders over $60 million and it has cost taxpayers a lot alongside of that. Mr. Speaker, it is not for me to speak to this minister's integrity, but I would ask him if he thinks he has the credibility and the confidence to remain as Finance Minister. Mr. Selinger: Mr.

Speaker, I only need to point out that since we have been in office we have had two upgradings. We have had two credit rating up- gradings in this province because what we have done is we have addressed issues that the members ignored during the entire period they were in office. For example, they let a pension liability grow from $1.8 billion to $3 billion. We put a plan in place to deal with that, and the credit rating agencies have said the finances of this province are under good control. The members oppos ite know that.

They are actually orange with envy that they did not do the job properly when they were in office, and we did. Crocus Investment Fund Police Investigation Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, we are seeing numerous examples of the incom- petence of this government. Today the independent prosecutor from Ontario, Mr. Graeme Cameron, has recommended that there be a police investigation by the RCMP. Mr.

Cameron's recommendation adds considerable credibility to those who have been concerned about the possibility that Crocus investors may have been deliberately deceived or defrauded by individuals acting to affect the market price of Crocus. Can the Minister of Justice (Mr. Mackintosh) today provide the Legislative Assembly with details of who is to be investigated; the Crocus staff, the board of Crocus, government officials or others? Hon. Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): Well, Mr. Speaker, the Auditor's report has identified a number of areas of potential criminality.

That said, the Deputy Attorney General has been very clear on this in public that the RCMP is free to determine the scope of its investigation. The RCMP can go wherever the facts will lead them. They are completely independent on what they can pursue. They have received the entire report, as well as the transcript of what some members opposite put on the public record, and they will do their job completely independently. Lowlands National Park Environmental Review Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr.

Speaker, for months now we have seen this NDP government make mistake after mistake in handling the affairs of the Province. We see this with Crocus. We see this with the environment. Indeed, the NDP seems to care so little about the environment. As an example, the last State of the Environment Report was in 1997, and we have not heard a peep since. The sustainable round table rarely meets. The federal-provincial memorandum of understanding so solemnly signed by this government to do complete consultations of the Lowlands National Park by the end of May of

3578 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 14, 2005 this year seems to have been relegated to the dustbin. We almost need a public inquiry into this govern- ment's ineptitude. When will the much-delayed consultations on the important treasure, the Lowlands National Park, finally get underway, and why has there been such a delay? Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. We have an initial question, and a supplementary question should seek further information on the initial question that was raised.

I am going to get the honourable Member for River Heights to tie them together somehow because– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. I do not want a precedent being set here where a question and another question, because a supplementary question is seeking infor- mation on the initial question that is raised. That is what supplementary questions are all about. So I am going to get the honourable Member for River Heights to please tie the two together and rephrase your question. Mr. Gerrard: Mr.

Speaker, the question has to do with the broad level of incompetence of this govern- ment, the incompetence in dealing with Crocus, the environment, all sorts of things. I would ask the government why they are so incompetent. Hon. Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, thank you in providing guidance on how to tie those random thoughts together in a question. Mr. Speaker, since we have come into office we have provided more reporting and accountability in the health care sector.

This is partly the outcome of negotiations with the federal government, partly a desire to make sure that the system is accountable to the citizens of Manitoba. We have provided more information with respect to early childhood develop- ment.

We have provided more information with respect to sustainable development and the member, if he just holds his breath for a few moments, will find out that we are bringing forward more performance indicators that will give Manitobans a much wider picture of all the activities we undertake in government and how we are willing to be accountable for them. * (14:30) Crocus Investment Fund Public Inquiry Request Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Mr. Speaker, government neglect has, in fact, killed the Crocus Fund.

If we look in terms of the Crocus board, from what we understand, if they do not get the general liability insurance by the end of the month you are going to see massive resignations coming from the Crocus board once again. They are going to be turning to the Manitoba government in hopes that the Manitoba government is going to be bailing them out. Mr. Speaker, issue after issue seems to follow this government in the way in which they have neglected this fund. It has become very clear that this government is putting the New Democrat Party interest ahead of the public interest and the public good.

I am asking and we are calling for this government to do the honourable thing and to request that this government– [interjection] Yes, resign would be nice. Mr. Speaker, the honourable thing for this government to do would, in fact, be to recognize the need for a public inquiry and today acknowledge to Manitobans for the first time that they are going to put the interests of Manitobans ahead of their own political party and call for that public inquiry. Hon. Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): Every recommendation the Auditor General has made, we have followed up on. He wanted a review of criminal allegations.

We sent it to a special prosecutor, even while the report was in draft stage. We have seen the results of that today. A police investigation will ensue. We have asked the Securities Commission to go back further than they have in the past. They are going to do that. We have put in place an implemen- tation team which has brought forward legislation which we can pass in the House this week which will provide more accountability, more public disclosure of any activities of a labour-sponsored venture capital fund. We have asked the revenue collection agency to review any matters with respect to tax matters. Mr.

Speaker, we will ensure this will not happen again.

June 14, 2005 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3579 Mr. Speaker: Order. Time for Or al Questions has expired. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Mr. Almer McKerlie Mr. Denis Rocan (Carman): I would like to inform the House of the accomplishments of one of my constituents, Mr. Almer McKerlie, of Miami, Manitoba, who was introduced earlier this afternoon by you, Mr. Speaker, as a guest in the Speaker's Gallery. A Toronto Sun sports writer recently released a book entitled Baseball Canadian Style . The author invited each province to name a 20th century all-star squad in the sport of baseball.

A special committee of the Manitoba Baseball Hall of Fame selected two back catchers as their choices, one of these indi- viduals being Mr. Almer McKerlie. The committee came up with a team which touched upon the decades and various parts of Manitoba based on ability, longevity and impact. Mr. McKerlie began his baseball career in 1946, where he played with the Fort William Legion. In 1949, scouts from the St. Louis Cardinals asked him to report to their AAA farm team in Rochester of the International League. At the young age of 21, Mr.

McKerlie was discovered and signed to a professional baseball contract with the St. Louis Cardinals. Mr. McKerlie had the reputation of having everything it took to play in the big leagues. He had the size, a powerful arm and handled his catching duties cleanly. Unfortunately, due to an injury, he was forced to return home. He became a member of the Carman Cardinals baseball club of the Mandak League in June of 1949. He played with the Cardinals until 1953, holding a 300-plus batting average. He was the all-star catcher for three of his five years playing with the league.

In 1953 he was contacted and asked to play in Vancouver in an unclassified league, but St. Louis would not release his contract. In the late 1960s, Mr. McKerlie received a letter advising that he had been traded to Cincinnati, a team which he still belongs to today. In 1954, he was offered a position as manager on a AA Minnesota baseball club but, due to family commitments, was unable to accept the position. Throughout his life, he was involved in all facets of the game. He coached the little leaguers, played local senior ball and umpired all levels. In 1997, the Manitoba Baseball Hall of Fame was established.

On June 7, 1997, Mr. McKerlie was inducted into the Manitoba Baseball Hall of Fame as both a player and an umpire and on June 4, 2005, the Mandak League received special recognition at the 9th annual Baseball Hall of Fame Induction cere- monies. Please join me in congratulating the father of one of our table officers, Ms. JoAnn McKerlie- Korol, who is proudly sitting at the table today as we congratulate her father, Mr. Almer McKerlie, as one of the two persons named as a Catcher of the Century for the province of Manitoba. Mr. Speaker: Play ball. We will go to the next one. World Blood Donor Day Mrs.

Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): Mr. Speaker, today June–[interjection] Mr. Speaker: Oh, I am sorry. I am sorry. I usually go back and forth. I am so rry. I have to recognize the–okay, let us just finish this one. Mrs. Stefanson: You snooze, you lose. Mr. Speaker, today, June 14, is World Blood Donor Day. Millions of patients around the world owe their lives to people they will never meet, people who donated their blood freely and without any reward except the knowledge that they have helped to save lives.

Today's events provide a special opportunity for a global celebration to thank those people who donate blood around the world. Safe blood saves lives, but, for far too many patients around the world, blood transfusion is either not available or not safe. In Canada we are extremely fortunate to have access to a safe, secure, cost effective supply of blood that is available to everyone. Mr. Speaker, my mother, Diane McDonald, passed away from ovarian cancer five years ago to this very day. While undergoing chemotherapy during her illness, she became extremely anemic and

3580 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 14, 2005 required multiple blood transfusions. Because she had a very rare blood type, different from the rest of our family, her livelihood relied on the generosity of thousands of blood donors across our country. The 4 percent of eligible Canadians who voluntarily donate blood are the foundation of our system. It is the hope of Canadian Blood Services that today's celebrations will create a new generation of blood donors.

I would like all members to join me today in thanking Canadian Blood Se rvices for the work they do in ensuring that a safe blood supply exists for all Canadians. I would like to especially thank those everyday heroes in our communities whose selfless act of donating blood saves lives. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. R.M. of Taché Hon. Ron Lemieux (Minister of Transportation and Government Services): Mr. Speaker, this year marks the 125th anniversary of the Rural Munici- pality of Taché where my wife and I and our children have resided for 30 years.

It was named for Archbishop Alexandre Antonin Taché, one of the first bishops in Manitoba, in recognition of his work in assisting its settlement of Europeans. * (14:40) We still see the river lot system that we used to establish farms over a cen tury ago, and many families still work the land first settled by their ancestors generations ago. Mr. Speaker, this region has a remarkable and distinguished history that precedes its formation as a rural municipality.

Settlers were originally drawn to this bountiful region from many parts of the world, resulting in a vibrant cultural diversity very evident in the communities today. This open, optimistic character is a quality that serves to draw more families to this ever-growing area. The Seine River, which meanders through Taché, contributes both to the beauty and life of the rich and fertile prairie fields that sustain many family farms. A pioneering spirit and a remarkable work ethic characterize the people of this region who have endured harsh winters and reoccurring floods. Mr.

Speaker, the R.M. of Taché recognizes the contributions of the Métis people who played such a pivotal role in the area's history and who still maintain a respected prominence in our commu- nities. The celebrations will be held on June 26 in conjunction with the opening ceremonies of the Monseigneur-Taché Historic Site in St. Genevieve and will include a parade, a Métis banquet, dance and fireworks. I am proud to represent the people of the Rural Municipality of Taché.

I wish to thank the work of the local government, the volunteers for their work in planning this event, and I wish all the people of Taché continued prosperity and happiness. Congrat- ulations on 125 years of good government and fair representation. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Neighbourhoods Alive! Program Mr. Drew Caldwell (Brandon East): Mr. Speaker, I rise today in the Manitoba Legislature in support of our government's Neighbourhoods Alive! Program which has helped to breathe new life into Brandon's central residential neighbourhoods.

The cornerstone of Neighbourhoods Alive! in Brandon is our government's partnership with the Brandon Neighbourhood Renewal Corporation. Through the Brandon Neighbourhood Renewal Corporation, residents and other local stakeholders have developed long-term community development plans and identified target priorities for action. To date, over $1.3 million has been approved for 52 community projects, including $433,000 for a city park, playground, boulevard and other greenspace projects which contribute greatly to the quality of life for all Brandon citizens. In addition, the Neighbourhoods Alive!

Front and Paint Program has provided funding support to some hundred homeowners for them to do exterior repairs to their homes. These housing enhancements, along with $8 million in provincial and federal funding for housing since 2000, has helped revive central Brandon. To date, this has resulted in the construction and renewal of over 650 housing units, providing a much-needed response to Brandon's shortage of affordable housing. Mr.

Speaker, it is not just improvement projects that are making a difference in Brandon's neighbourhoods; it is the increased ability of local residents and groups to impact their environment and initiate sustainable change.

June 14, 2005 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3581 Our government is proud of the work we have been able to accomplish in Brandon through Neighbourhoods Alive! Ind eed, last week we were pleased to announce that we will continue to support Neighbourhoods Alive! in Brandon throughout the mandate of our government. Mr. Speaker, on behalf of our government, I would like to thank the many volunteers and commu- nity organizations who have made Neighbourhoods Alive! projects in Brandon so successful. In particular, I would like to thank the Brandon Neighbourhood Renewal Corporation.

Their ability to consolidate the efforts of local residents and community groups is vital to the success of Neighbourhoods Alive! projects. Mr. Mel Ham Mr. Cliff Cullen (Turtle Mountain): Mr. Speaker, it is an honour to rise in the House today to recognize an exceptional high school teacher who has been awarded the Lieutenant-Governor's Medal for Excel- lence in Teaching at the high school level. His name is Mr. Mel Ham, and I want to commend Mr. Ham for his outstanding achievement and for his dedi- cation and commitment to the promotion of teaching excellence. Mr.

Ham has been a teacher at the Glenboro School for 28 years and is highly respected and admired by students, colleagues and the entire community. As one of his students explained, "Our class with Mr. Ham is first thing in the morning, and it is sure a great way to start off the day." Mr. Ham also coaches basketball and badminton. With the same quiet calm that he uses in the classroom, he ensures that all players are made fully aware of their strengths and the contributions they make to the team. Mel concerns himself just as much with the students' emotional well-being as he does with their academic process.

He can quickly spot the child who is upset and not learning as quickly as others. It is not uncommon for Mr. Ham to go up to a student after class and ask if everything is okay. In his role as guidance counsellor, Mr. Ham single-mindedly motivates his students towards excellence in ways both direct and subtle. If students need information on post-secondary education, he will explore every avenue for them to find it. Mel is seen on a daily basis, even in the hallways, checking on student process, the credits they have achieved towards graduation and their plans for the future.

He is clearly a highly motivated and dedicated teacher who works tirelessly to pass on that same motivation and dedication to everyone he comes in contact with. The nomination of Mr. Ham was nothing less than a heartfelt endorsement of a very special teacher by an entire community. As Mel does not recognize the physical boundaries of the school as being the limits of his responsibilities by treating everyone with care and respect, he has earned the care and respect of the whole community. On behalf of the entire community, I extend congratulations to Mel Ham on receiving this very prestigious award.

ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS House Business Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): Pursuant to the sessional order, report stage amendments on Bill 207 must be disposed of first off, Mr. Speaker. So perhaps if we could call if there are any report stage amendments on that bill. Mr. Speaker: Are there any report stage amendments to Bill 207? Seeing none, the honourable Government House Leader. Mr. Mackintosh: Mr. Speaker, under the sessional order, would you please call the Opposition Day Motion? Mr. Speaker: We will proceed now with the Opposition Day Motion. OPPOSITION DAY MOTION Mr.

Leonard Derkach (Official Opposition House Leader): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the member from Emerson,

WHEREAS the Doer-NDP government has demonstrated its inability to manage provincial affairs including health care, Education, Finance, Agriculture, Family Services and Advanced Education; and

3582 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 14, 2005

WHEREAS Manitobans are disillusioned, frustrated and disappointed with this NDP govern- ment because of its duplicitous approach to issues of great importance; and

WHEREAS Manitobans are being misled by this NDP government when announcements on programs are made but action plans are either not developed or not implemented; and

WHEREAS Manitobans are left in pain, and prolonged suffering, because of the ideology of this NDP government which prohibits patient treatment in publicly funded, privately run health care facilities; and

WHEREAS the Premier continues to be duplicitous in his statements about issues of utmost importance to Manitobans, especially with health care and the use of public-private partnerships; and

WHEREAS hospitals in rural Manitoba have been and are closing despite the Premier's promises on many occasions that no rural hospital would be closed or converted ; and

WHEREAS the South Beach Casino is open now, exposing workers and patrons to a smoke-filled environment which compromises their health and well-being; and

WHEREAS the incompetence of the Minister of Education has allowed the gross misuse of taxpayers' dollars allocated for educational purposes, to be used instead for the unlawful purpose of a housing development and property development; and

WHEREAS the Minister of Education abdicates responsibility for the continued misuse of taxpayers' dollars by refusing to put an immediate stop to the illegal development of land by a school division; and

WHEREAS the Minister of Education has failed to show leadership with respect to duties, programs, initiatives and funds within the purview of the Department of Education; and

WHEREAS the NDP government has failed to oversee and monitor Labour-Sponsored Capital Investment Funds, namely Crocus, resulting in the loss of millions of investor and taxpayer dollars; and

WHEREAS the Doer-NDP government with its anti-business approach to investment in Manitoba has failed to grow, expand or diversify Manitoba's economy; and

WHEREAS in a year of unprecedented government revenues, the NDP government is forcing Manitobans to pay significantly higher fees for many services, including probate fees paid by surviving spouses and children, Pharmacare deduc- tibles and family court fees; and

WHEREAS Manitoba's debt, under the watch of the NDP government, continues to rise at $1.5 million per day, and cumulatively has risen by $2 billion during the time when Manitoba has seen unparalleled federal transfers and own source revenues; and

WHEREAS it has been more than two years since the outbreak of BSE, which has put Manitoba's cattle industry in great jeopardy and this NDP government has failed to expand slaughter and processing capacities in Manitoba; and

WHEREAS the Minister of Family Services has shown disrespect for the legislative process of accountability and members of this Chamber by refusing to answer serious qu estions as they relate to the policies of the Department of Family Services and Housing; and

WHEREAS Manitoba universities are being forced to raise student anci llary fees because of the insufficient operating fu nds transferred from the NDP government to our post-secondary institutions; and * (14:50)

WHEREAS the NDP government has now forced an anti-democratic Master Labour Agreement on Manitobans by forcing non-unionized workers on the floodway expansion project to pay union dues, pension and benefit costs, when these costs are already covered under existing agreements with their respective employers. THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that this Legislature express its disgust and disappointment on behalf of all Manitobans in the way in which this NDP government has conducted the affairs of the Province of Manitoba; and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Legislative Assembly expr ess its grave objection to

June 14, 2005 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3583 the Premier and NDP government for misleading Manitobans, mishandling major issues and govern- ment departments and for misusing and misspending Manitobans' hard-earned tax dollars; and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba respectfully requests the Premier and NDP government to apologize to Manitobans for the careless, insensitive and duplicitous manner in which it has carried out its duties on behalf of the citizens of Manitoba. Mr. Speaker: It has been moved by the honourable Member for Russell (Mr. De rkach), seconded by the honourable Member for Emerson (Mr. Penner),

WHEREAS the Doer government– An Honourable Member: Dispense? Mr. Speaker: Dispense. Mr. Derkach: I rise today, a day of opposition, Mr. Speaker, to express the disgust of members of this Chamber in the way in which this government has handled the affairs of the citizens of Manitoba over the course of its mandate. I know that it is a tired government but, more importantly, it is a govern- ment that does not care about the affairs of all Manitobans.

Rather, it has put before all Manitobans the interests of its friends in the labour leadership of this province and that has caused great unrest in the province, great turmoil. It has cost those people who have invested in Manitoba millions and millions of dollars. Mr. Speaker, today I rise because there is concern about how this government has mismanaged every single department that has been named in my resolution. Departments, wh ether they are in Health or in Education or in Agriculture or Finance or Family Services or Justice, the list just goes on and on.

As we look at how this government has conducted its affairs, one cannot but, I guess, condemn the actions of this government because of its irresponsibility, as is demonstrated by its actions. Mr. Speaker, for months we have been asking questions of the government with respect to how it conducts its affairs. We cannot get any answers in this Chamber. The Premier (Mr. Doer) will not answer questions. The Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger) will not answer questions. The Minister of Agriculture (Ms. Wowchuk) will not answer questions. The Minister of Family Services (Ms. Melnick) will absolutely answer no questions.

The Minister of Health (Mr. Sale) continues to, I guess, be a stranger to the truth when he stands up in response to questions. The Minister of Intergovern- mental Affairs (Mr. Smith), who has responsibility for the development in the rural side of this province for the policies as they relate to rural Manitoba, has completely abandoned rural Manitobans. The minister of industry, trade and mines, who is responsible for the business climate, ensuring that Manitoba continues to be competitive, has dropped the ball. Mr. Conrad Santos, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair. The Minister of Education (Mr. Bjornson), Mr.

Speaker, we have seen in the way that he operates, and it is absolutely disgusting when the Leader of the Official Opposition (Mr. Murray) comes forward with a suggestion to government that we should have a summit, a forum, on bullying, and then the government goes ahead, organizes the conference, but prohibits any opposition members from attending the conference, yet he himself will bring greetings on behalf of the government. I think that is absolutely disgusting. Mr. Speaker, that is the way this government has operated. They operate by intimidation. They intimi- date ordinary Manitobans.

They intimidate their departments. That is how they are trying to intimi- date, now, the members of the opposition parties, but that is not going to work. There are other ways to get our message and we will continue to get that message out, that this is an incompetent government, that this is an incompetent group of administrators. At the top of the list, I have to say, is the Minister of Education, because he has shown how incompetent he really is no matter what issue he addresses.

Let us just take a look at how he has put the interests of his buddy, the superintendent of Seven Oaks School Division, ahead of Manitobans. He has allowed, under the guidance of the Manitoba Public Schools Finance Board that he is responsible for, he cannot sweep that aw ay. He is responsible for the Public Schools Finance Board. Yet his buddy, Mr. Zaidman, the head of the Public Schools Finance Board, and his other buddy, Mr.–what is his name? Who is the superintendent of Seven Oaks School Division?

3584 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 14, 2005 An Honourable Member: Brian O'Leary. Mr. Derkach: Mr. O'Leary. Well, Mr. Speaker, his buddy, Mr. Zaidman, and Mr. O'Leary have now developed a partnership where, through the collusion of themselves with the Mi nister of Education (Mr. Bjornson), they have decided to venture into a housing development project. Now, Mr. Speaker, the minister cannot tell us that he did not know about it. He cannot say that he did not know about. He did know about it, but he did nothing about it because his buddy, Mr. Zaidman, meets with him on a regular basis.

So– [interjection] Yes, he did. As a matter of fact, there are people who will even cite the dates when they met. The minister cannot hide from that. Mr. Speaker, he allowed that to continue and allows it to continue to this day. He has not addressed the issue of the illegal activities of Seven Oaks School Division. More importantly, he has not even done anything to correct the wrong. He has not dismissed the board. He has not dismissed the chair. He continues to sit in his chair and do nothing. But that is the mantra of this government. They do nothing, and it does not matter what issue that we address.

I asked the Minister of Agriculture (Ms. Wowchuk) today to look at what is happening in the rural part of this province, farmers who cannot get their crops in, farmers whose crops are drowning, and yet the minister sits there. I take you back to 1999 when we had this same kind of situation happening in all of Manitoba. Mr. Speaker, I remember the dates because I was in Cabinet then. We met in the western part of the province where the problems were most vivid, and we made a decision there and then that we would put a cash payout to these farmers because they needed it.

That payout was in their hands within two months. It was not a payment that was shared by the federal government and the farmers themselves, because that is what crop insurance is. This was a payment that was made by the government of that day, by the Cabinet of that day, by the province of that day, and it was in reflection and in recognition of the hardships that were being faced by the farmers of that time. What is this government doing today? Nothing.

As a matter of fact, when they come out into our constituencies, they do not have the common courtesy and decency to invite members of the Legislative Assembly to join them. That is the way this government operates. Mr. Speaker, you can go from one department to the other, and you find this same thread throughout this whole government. Mr. Speaker, I look at the Crocus issue, and I regret that we have only 10 minutes to speak because I could go on all afternoon. To be honest with you, the Crocus fiasco is something that is going to be the end of this government.

Manitobans are going to end their tenure, not us as opposition, but it will be Manitobans because they see the kind of scandal that this is becoming. We can talk about the Gomery commission at the federal level, but this is as big, and this is as important to Manitobans as the Gomery commission is to Canadians. Sooner or later we will get to the bottom of it. We have vowed to Manitobans that, if this government does not call an inquiry and does not deal with these issues, when we get to be government, we will call an inquiry. We will get to the bottom. So therefore the warning has been issued.

We cannot continue this way. Manitobans will not allow it. How can we ever allow Manitobans to lose $60 million just because we have got some very close friends that are associated with our party? That is the way the NDP government, Mr. Speaker, conducts its affairs. Their labour-union buddies, their labour leaders, people like O'Leary, people like Zaidman, and I could go on and on. At the head of all of them is who but Mr. Kostyra. Mr. Kostyra has been directing this Cabinet, this government, in its affairs, misleading them in the way that they conduct their affairs. I know that the Minister of Finance (Mr.

Selinger) would want to do the right thing, Mr. Speaker, but unfortunately, he has bowed to the pressures of his friends, and he has led this govern- ment into the shambles that it is in today and into the scandal-ridden history that is going to be written about this party and about this government. * (15:00) We talked about Howard Pawley in the years when he was in government and the way that he left this province in a shambles. This government under Gary Doer, under Premier Doer, or under the Premier of our province, the member from

June 14, 2005 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3585 Concordia–I am sorry, I retract the names, Mr. Speaker, but this government is in the same shambles, if not worse, than it was under the tenure of Howard Pawley. Mr. Speaker, I have never seen a Premier pay hush money to people because he does not want to disclose the events of a lawsuit that he had levelled against him. He used taxpayer dollars to buy the silence of people who were suing him, and that is the same way that they are going to try to resolve Crocus. I am predicting that because that is the way that this government and this Premier (Mr.

Doer) conduct their affairs. Mr. Speaker, it is a shame that we have to stand here today with a motion like this on the floor and condemn our government legitimately for the way it has been mismanaging its affairs. This is a govern- ment of mismanagement, misrepresentation, misuse of dollars. And let us take a look at what the debt in Manitoba is under this administration. Under the administration of Gary Filmon, the debt was going down, there was a balanced budget; there was no deficit. Under this administration, they hide the true numbers. They hide the fact that we have a deficit.

They continue to increase the debt of our province at an unprecedented rate. When is this going to stop? I will tell you when it is going to stop. It is going to stop when we kick them out of office in, hopefully, less than two years. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Hon. Peter Bjornson (M inister of Education, Citizenship and Youth): I rise to speak about our record in education and health care, among other things. First of all, I gues s, I could start off with education funding, but I would appreciate an opportunity so members could hear this, Mr. Acting Speaker. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr.

Deputy Speaker: Order, please. The Minister of Education has the floor. Mr. Bjornson: Mr. Speaker, when I have been answering questions on education funding I have referenced the fact that members opposite had announced funding levels of zero, zero, minus 2, minus 2.2, zero, and a one-time infusion of $15.2 million. Well, actually I would like to correct that because that $15.2 million, if you take into account the zero, the zero, the minus 2.2, there is a net investment in five years under members opposite of $1.6 million, a net investment in education.

One of the most important investments you can make in any province is the education system, and in five years members opposite invested $1.6 million. Now, Mr. Speaker, our record is very clear. The latest announcement on education funding was the second highest announcement in funding in 10 years. And who is responsible for the first highest invest- ment in education in 10 years? It would be this government–$129.8 million invested in our children, invested in our future.

Not only have we invested more money in our children in operating costs for education, but we have also invested in capital, an unprecedented commitment to capital. By year's end we will have completed over 700 projects, and we have 690 schools. We will have completed over 20 new and replacement schools, over 50 major repairs to schools, and this is an incredible, unprecedented commitment to capital. Our investment in capital is $161 million more than the previous five years. Then we are committed to capital, and we are continuing to move forward with that.

Now compare this to previous announcements of $18.3 million for the entire system. Those were announcements being made when more than half of the schools were over 50 years old, more than half of the schools needed serious repairs. We are committed to education by funding at the rate of economic growth, by providing meaningful investment, unprecedented investment, three years, $45 million a year, unprecedented announcements. We are committed to do this in a meaningful way where we can provide tax relief as well.

Members opposite have said, "Oh, yes, we should eliminate all taxes off property for education." They have said that. Now what they neglect to say is how they would do that, because it accounts for $713 million. Now, what was their announcement as their shadow budget? Their shadow budget was also saying 2% increase for education and 1% increase. So what would that do to the education system?

3586 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 14, 2005 Well, I know first-hand what they did to the education system, just like many members in this Chamber on this side of the House know what happened to the education system. We have the member from Brandon East, the member from Flin Flon, the member from La Verendrye, the member from Seine River, the memb er from Assiniboia, the member from Rossmere, the member from Dauphin- Roblin and myself, all teachers, and we all knew that, if we were going to make change for the better for the education system, we had to do it on the benches of government.

That is why we are in government. We are in government because we are a government that cares about education. We are a government that cares about the health care system. Members opposite talk about a lot of the things that are happening in education except educational issues. What have we done as a government in terms of education?

Well, I would like to say in terms of some of the initiatives that have been brought forward in the last two years, for example, invest- ment in Internet resources for history, investment in community schools, investment in the Aboriginal Education Action Plan, which was the only issue that was raised by my critic last year, as why is this budget going up. That was the only issue. Well, we know that we need to work with our partners in Aboriginal education because we are not satisfied with the graduation rates. We know that we have to have a development plan for Aboriginal education.

We have been working on that very hard and we have brought that forward. It is an action plan and today was part of that action plan where I happened to be at the Murdo Centre for employment opportunities and this is part of our action plan. Community liaisons with community partners to help our young people succeed. We know that we need to reinvest in technical-vocational education and that is something that we have done. We know that we need to reinvest in the arts.

Now, of course, arts, that was something that during the election, members opposite were saying, "Oh, you know, we can fund education by cutting off all the taxes and we can get rid of extraneous things like art and phys ed and things of that nature," which would only set back the education system about 50 years.

I find it offensive because I believe that the best thing we could do for our students is offer them as many opportunities as possible, offer them as many opportunities to succeed with the variety of learning styles that we have in our schools, with the multiple intelligences that we have in our schools and with the variety of teaching techniques that we need to encourage, but in order to encourage professional development for teachers, we also have to fund professional development. That is something that we have done. I know as a teacher in the 1990s I was locked out.

I was locked out for 15 days because in the 1990s they said, "Hey, school divisions, you can save money, and the way you are going to do that is to lock your teachers out. You can cut out profes- sional development. You can cut out administration, so go ahead, do that." And they put that onus on school boards while they were funding at deplorable levels and increasing the dependence on property taxes. That is just one of the things that was done, Mr. Deputy Speaker. One of the other things that they did was they actually established a commission to review teacher compensation.

They established a commission and made teachers a target. They wanted to see if it was appropriate that teachers were paid the amount of money that they were paid to do the job that they were doing. [interjection] Yes, thank you, I am being reminded that it was Shirley Render and the member from Pembina that were involved in that particular commission, and I presented at that commission.

I felt really good to be a teacher presenting at that commission because that room was full of teachers and people who supported us as a profession who were being told that perhaps we should cut back the entry-level salaries for teachers. That is one of the things that was even being considered, and that is absolutely offensive that that would even be considered. At least the government of the day had the wisdom to abandon those recommendations because they got a message loud and clear.

Manitobans value the job that teachers do, and that was certainly very clearly delivered throughout the commission that had been conducted to look into this issue. Back in 1995, in May, when I was first teaching, for my first few years teac hing every May that came along under the previous administration, I was always looking around at my colleagues wondering who would not be there the next year. In 1995, with the funding announcement of zero, an unprecedented

June 14, 2005 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3587 number of teachers were given pink slips, 243 teachers given pink slips. Now, I often hear members opposite talk about taxes and the cost of education. I rarely hear members opposite talk about the investment that we are getting for our dollar that we are putting into the educational system. It is unprecedented funding into the education system. It is a commitment by this government. It is a commitment by our partners in the school boards, and we have seen incredible achievements by our students and by our teachers.

In fact, the member from Turtle Mountain talked about a teacher who was recognized for being an exceptional teacher. * (15:10) Today, I had the good fortune of having more student art presented to me by seven schools, Mr. Deputy Speaker. We have had a number of different students come in over the past year and a half to showcase their talent and display it in my office. Now, I know the member from Russell does not really appreciate student art because he said in the election, when they were saying "How are we going to fund education if we cut it off the property taxes?

Well, let us get rid of the art program, let us get rid of the music program." As I said, and I will say it again, this is– Point of Order Mr. Deputy Speaker: There is a point of order being raised. Mr. Derkach: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order. The minister's comments should parallel the truth, which they do not. As a matter of fact, if the minister is so proud of the art that students bring–as a matter of fact, I had a student who brought in some art come to visit my office. One of the issues is why do all members of the Legislature not have an opportunity to see the artwork that is brought.

That artwork should be displayed in our display areas of this building so that all MLAs whose students have brought in art can have it displayed for all of us. Mr. Speaker, my point of order is the minister's comments should parallel the truth, and they do not. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Dispute over the facts is not a point of order. * * * Mr. Bjornson: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I would invite the member to visit the Web site, the Education Web site, because they have got digital photos of the art so all Manitobans can take a look at the art.

I would also invite the member from Russell to display student art in his office as well if he is so inclined and, certainly, we had 97 people through the office today who were part of the unveiling of the new gallery. I have many countless visitors who appre- ciate the artwork in the office. We will continue to promote and support that.

Now, we have done a number of things, as I said: launching the Aboriginal academic action plan; a sustainable development action plan in 2005, my deputy minister is taking the lead on that at a national level; the sustainable development Internet site in 2003, a partnership with Manitoba Conser- vation and Intergovernmental Affairs and Health developing a procurement and financial management guidelines regulation affecting education, health, municipal government sector; a partnership for learning for a sustainable future– Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. The minister's time has expired. Mr.

Stuart Murray (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I rise to make comments on the motion that was brought forward by the honourable member from Russell. I think there are so many issues that we have seen this NDP government bungle that we do not have enough time in the allocation, but I will try to hit on some of the low points, because that is what they are, they are low points of this NDP government, and Manitobans are suffering because of it. Mr.

Speaker, we know that this Premier and the former Minister of Health are famous for coming up with slogans, coming with empty, hollow promises about ending hallway medicine in six months with $15 million, about putting Grafton out of business, I mean all great, sort of photo ops, but the point of fact is that when it comes down to what is really important, when it comes down to actually delivering services for Manitoba patients, they have failed, and they have failed.

That is unfortunate for patients because I think that if you looked at the opportunities that were in front of this NDP government, we know full well that the Supreme Court has come down with a ruling that basically says that governments like this NDP government are classic at rationalizing health

3588 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 14, 2005 care services. So that is unfortunate because rationalizing means that people have to do, as was reported in the media, things like go out and take a second mortgage on their homes so that they then, for example, if they need a hip or knee surgery, have to take that money and go to another province and pay out of their own pocket for that surgery. Well, Mr. Speaker, that is what is happening under this NDP government. People are forced to pay high taxes, which should go to our health care system.

On top of that they are forced to take a second mortgage on a home because they are concerned if they do not get their knee or hip replaced in a certain time period that perhaps their livelihood, their business, is going to suffer. What we see under this NDP ideologically driven government is rationalization of health care. They do not care about a quality of life for people. People have to suffer. If they want to make a choice– and I heard the Premier (Mr. Doer) say this outside in the hallway. I was quite amazed.

When asked about the Supreme Court decision about choices, what the Premier said was, "Well, my understanding is people in Manitoba have choices already. If they don't get the care here, they can go down to the Mayo Clinic." That is outrageous that the Premier would take that kind of a position. Hardworking Manitobans have to suffer enough under this NDP government that they should not have to then fly at their expense, take money at their expense and pay in American dollars for health care because they cannot get it here in Manitoba.

Now we know that the NDP are great on bringing out the bogeyman when it comes to health care. I want to be very clear to the colleagues that are listening in the Chamber, and I want to go on to the record that we have looked at the fact that they always talk about the American health care system. Well, Mr. Deputy Chair, we have looked at the American health care system. The American health care system does not work. It is not what we want in Manitoba. We want innovation. We want oppor- tunities in Manitoba, opportunities that are here that exist, but this NDP government ignores them because of their ideology. Mr.

Speaker, we know that if you are a mom in serious issue and you need to see a pediatric doctor in Brandon, we know what the NDP solution is. The NDP solution is call for an ambulance, make them take the ride between Brandon highway medicine all the way into Winnipeg, and that is where they can see a doctor. Well, Mr. Deputy Chair, I say shame on this NDP government for ignoring west Manitoba. I have said before in this Chamber that it is great that the NDP stand up and crow about the fact that they have built a hospital in Brandon, but there are no doctors to take care of the people and that is the shame.

So you have a big, nice, new hospital and no doctors, Mr. Speaker, to take care of those people. So they put them in an ambulance and ship them down a highway to Winnipeg. That is the kind of health care that people in Westman are experiencing under this NDP government. We have heard the Minister of Education (Mr. Bjornson), and I think that what we saw under this Seven Oaks scandal, this initiative that was driven by the former disgraced NDP campaign manager, Mr. Brian O'Leary, who got into this illegal scheme to take taxpayers' money to invest in development of housing and trying to sell it.

Did they put one nickel into expanding a school or into more textbooks or something to do with education? The answer is, no, they did not. They did it on the basis that they wanted to line their own pockets somehow. I am telling you that that was illegal. The Minister of Education knows it was illegal. They went to put a report together. What did we see in the report? Well, it was a whitewash. It was an absolute whitewash because they never investig ated the one person who one day denied he knew nothing about it and on the next day said, "Well, actually, I do recall, Mr. Speaker.

I remember a year ago that that's what we heard." So, Mr. Speaker, we have a situation where we see more scandal erupting with this NDP government and more ability to try to cover it up and hush it up. Well, that will not happen because those issues will continue to come forward. I just find it fascinating that the Minister of Education, under this NDP government, they were so quick to move on Morris- Macdonald, boom, went in and fired the whole lot. We know and it was acknowledged that there was illegal activity going on in the Seven Oaks School Division. Has one person been disciplined?

Has the former disgraced NDP campaign manager, Brian O'Leary, been disciplined? The answer is no. Have they gone after one person? They have not. Why is that? You think there is some relationship between

June 14, 2005 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3589 monies being donated to the NDP and no action being taken? One would have to ask and pose the question. One would hope that was not the reason because they sure moved quickly on Morris- Macdonald, but when it came time to doing some- thing in Seven Oaks, knowing that it was illegal, nothing took place. * (15:20) Mr. Speaker, we know that Manitobans continue to suffer under this NDP government, particularly under this Minister of Agriculture (Ms.

Wowchuk), because we are now past the two-year time frame on this BSE crisis, and they have not increased slaughter capacity by one, not one, and I say shame on the NDP government. All the provinces around us, Mr. Speaker, Saskatchewan, Ontario, B.C., Alberta, we know that they are doing things to work with their cattle producers. They are work ing to increase slaughter capacity. Well, what do we get from this NDP government? We get all sorts of announcements. We get announcements about announcements. We get more announcements about the announcements about the announcements that they want to make.

That is the trouble with this NDP government. It is all hollow rhetoric. It is all about an announcement, and do nothing. What we have is Rancher's Choice. We said very clearly on this side of the House, we said it well over a year ago in our five-point BSE strategy, and we said we would be happy to hand it off to the government of the day, we would be happy to work with them because we believe that our cattle producers are suffering, and so we came up with a five-point plan, Mr. Speaker. Part of that was to increase slaughter capacity.

We would support Rancher's Choice, but is it not interesting when Rancher's Choice got put into Dauphin that all of a sudden the issue is "Here comes Rancher's Choice, but we have got a problem with the lagoon in Dauphin; we do not know that it can take the capacity with this new slaughter facility?" Well, I would suggest that the member from Dauphin, who is also the Minister of Conservation (Mr. Struthers), have a meeting with himself to try to rectify this very serious problem on behalf of the cattle producers in Manitoba.

But what we see is Rancher's Choice being disassembled, brought up here to some warehouse in Manitoba, and what is it doing, Mr. Speaker? It sits in a warehouse collecting dust and rust. Meanwhile, our BSE producers out there, our cattle producers, are suffering because of BSE. This is a government of dust and rust. They should be taking the kind of action that we have been asking them to do, working with us so that our cattle producers, in fact, have some support rather than being denied and have their backs turned on them as we have seen by this NDP government.

We know full well when it comes to post- secondary education, what do we see happening in the province of Manitoba under this NDP govern- ment? We see university after university, and now we see some of the colleges, stating very clearly, "We are going to have to come behind this tuition freeze and we are going to ha ve to start jacking up the user fees." Well, that has not raised a flag on the other side because this Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger) is famous for jacking up user fees. In the dark of night, what do they do? They bring in all these sneaky, sneaky taxes, these user fees.

They do not announce them, Mr. Deputy Speaker, they just kind of bring them in in a very sneaky kind of way. I find it interesting that now we have the presidents of the major universities being concerned about what is happening with the user fees. I must say that on–is that time? Some Honourable Members: Time is up. Mr. Murray: Well, Mr. Speaker, I am sorry that I did not get into the Crocus scandal because that is the biggest issue facing Manitobans today. Thank you very much. Mr.

Drew Caldwell (Brandon East): It is a dubious privilege to speak to this resolution, dubious because, really, what we are speaking to is a shopping list of right-wing Reform-Alliance rhetoric, Mr. Deputy Speaker. There are nearly 23

preambles to this resolution.

Preambles that speak to the very nadir of right-wing politics in this country. Mr. Speaker, the Member for Kirkfield Park (Mr. Murray) and the Member for Russell (Mr. Derkach), whom we have had the dubious pleasure of listening to over the last half hour or so, are appropriate spokespeople for the party of yesterday that occupies the Chamber opposite on the opposite side of the House from us on the government side.

3590 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 14, 2005 Mr. Speaker, I was born and raised in western Manitoba, very proud to be from western Manitoba, and, of course, as Manitobans know, the rural part of western Manitoba has been the natural domain of members of the Conservative Party over the last half century. It has always puzzled me, particularly recently, why that happened.

I can understand that sort of phenomenon during the years of Duff Roblin because all members of this House recognize that Premier Roblin was a statesman, someone who represented all Manitobans without fear or favour, someone that was a moderate individual, someone that had balanced policies and brought in programs like the floodway that were of benefit to all Manitobans and not just a narrow, narrow, narrow band that members opposite represent.

This brings me back to my comments about western Manitoba becaus e really what we are confronted with across the Chamber in the House today is the Charleswood-Tuxedo party, in fact, even represent a very small band of the Charleswood- Tuxedo population. This is a party that represents vigorously and with rabid rhetoric and with frothing at the mouth, a very narrow, narrow spectrum of Manitobans, those who are of the Reform-Alliance persuasion in this provin ce. It is a narrow, narrow band of people that members opposite represent.

In fact, with the allegations of shakedowns from their Charleswood-Tuxedo friends over the Crocus Fund where the Member for Kirk field Park (Mr. Murray) said, "Oh, we knew this information on Crocus a couple of years ago, but we had a shakedown in my office, and we won't raise those topics in the Manitoba Legislature, Mr. Speaker, because our party fundraisers have told us to stay away from those items." Well, you know, the integrity of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition has been left in tatters in this House over the last two weeks. In fact, it has been shattered.

The integrity of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition has been shattered over the last couple of weeks in this House. Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition has become David Filmon's loyal opposition or the Tory fundraisers' loyal opposition. Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition has ceased to exist in this House over the last couple of weeks. So we have members opposite who, you know, there are five members elected from western Manitoba, but western Manitobans are starting to have a dawning, an awakening, of who their MLAs are really representing.

They certainly are not repre- senting the interests of people in Deloraine or Boissevain or Russell or Roblin or Souris or Virden or the other communities in western Manitoba. They are representing the interests of the very, very far right and the very, very self-interested in Tuxedo, in Charleswood, in Linden Woods, and even there, a very small band. Only the most rabid right Reformers and Alliance philosophically oriented people do members opposite represent.

So we have got this shopping list, you know, a little over two pages of right-wing rabid rhetoric proposed by the Member for Roblin that is presented as a serious resolution. In all seriousness, he puts it forth as a serious resolution for debate in this House, but all it does is serve to remind the public of the two parties that exist in this Legislature, the Reform- Alliance group across the hall that call themselves the Progressive Conservative Party of Manitoba, which is a shell, a shell, a shell of the Roblin Tories.

This is the Reform-Alliance rump that exists across the hall, and those of us on the government side of the House who represent north, south, east, west, ethnic groups, sexual orientation, rural, urban.

We represent the full and complete face of the province of Manitoba, while the group across the Chamber, although they get their support as a party from folks in western Manitoba, folks in central Manitoba, their positions and their policies only represent and only benefit a narrow band of wealthy folks that live in the city of Winnipeg and that Charleswood-Tuxedo- Linden Woods triangle, and again, as I say, not even all members of those populations in those particular constituencies. * (15:30) So, in reviewing the relatively meaningless rhetoric that is put forth in this resolution, Mr.

Speaker, it is worth touching upon some facts. We will start with the facts of the 1999 election, when the people of the province of Manitoba threw out a party that vote-rigged, corrupted democracy in the 1995 general election, were caught out in that and identified as being a party that was fundamentally scornful and contemptuous of democracy in this province through their vote-rigging in a number of constituencies. Of course, that legacy continues with the shakedown we had in th e Member for Kirkfield Park's office, where Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition

June 14, 2005 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3591 ceased to be a loyal opposition and became a corrupted party in this House. So it is not a leap of logic to follow from vote-rigging to shakedowns in the Leader's office to abrogating responsibility to be an opposition with integrity in this House, Mr. Speaker. It reminds us of that.

It also reminds us of the sell-off of the Manitoba Telephone System where, you know, one Eric Stefanson, the Finance Minister at that time, orchestrates, along with his colleagues in this Chamber, the sell-off of the Manitoba Telecom System, a legacy that all Manitobans owned, an Internet telecommunications enterprise that all Manitobans owned. It sold off that asset, Mr. Speaker, to the detriment of every Manitoban, particularly rural Manitobans, but to the detriment of every Manitoban forever. So that sell-off of MTS, you know, the first millionaire was Eric Stefanson's brother, Tom Stefanson.

We just have to take a look at the board of directors of Manitoba Telecom System. It is the retirement fund for members opposite when they leave this Chamber. So, you know, I am proud to be part of a government that is working hard each and every day on behalf of all Manitobans. I am proud to be part of a government that prides itself on building Manitoba. I am proud to be able to identify during this debate that Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition has ceased to be anything but a Reform-Alliance rump in this province. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Jack Penner (Emerson): Mr.

Speaker, I am certainly not going to respond to the member from Brandon East because, quite obviously, that was a speech of desperation. You could hear the tone of desperation in his voice, only being afraid of what they are going to have to face when they finally have to answer all the questions on Crocus and how Crocus was dealt with. I believe the Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger), that we saw, today is extremely nervous about the kind of answers that he is going to have to provide when a public inquiry is, in fact, established. It is time that the Premier (Mr.

Doer) of the province step in and say that we will have a public inquiry, that we want to get to the bottom of the truth. Then we will find out who was telling the truth and who knew what when and where and why. It is time that Manitobans were given that answer because we are not dealing with government's money. We are dealing with the people that have invested in the Crocus fund. It is their money. It is those people that we are responsible to. It is time that the Minister of Finance and the Premier of the province stepped up to the plate and said, "Let us clear the air.

Let us call a public inquiry and make sure that the people know precisely what happened and why." I want to spend a bit of time today, Mr. Speaker, on identifying some of the difficulties that rural Manitoba and many of the people in urban centres are facing because of the kind of weather conditions that we are seeing. Seldom, ever, do we see this kind of continuation of wet weather without a break in it to allow farmers to get out onto the field and put their crops in the ground and, in fact, do business as normal. I just read an e-mail from a businessman in southwestern Manitoba, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, who identifies clearly what the impact is to his business and how those people that he serves and those people that he provides product to are hurting, and how those people are watching their cows give birth to calves out in the middle of the field and have the little calves drown in the middle of the field because of the wet weather. It is also important to note that he says large areas are being drowned out, areas that had already been seeded. There will be no crop there, because it will be, by far, too late to reseed those crops if and when the ground dries this spring.

And, similarly, we have this situation again, as we have had for the last three years now in southeast Manitoba, anything east of the Red River and, indeed , a significant area even west of the Red River, where people, for all spring, have simply not been able to put the heavy equip- ment in the fields to put a crop in the ground and expect any kind of commerce to happen in the spring of this year. But look at what the impact of that in the fall of this year. There will be no new combines bought. There will be no new equipment bought. There will be no fertilizer bought.

There will be no seed bought, and what has been bought will be returned. Be it any commerce that the urban communities, small com- munities in rural Manitoba that depend on that income by those farmers to be able to generate some kind of commerce, will not happen this year. That is gone. The opportunity is gone. It is only four or five days now to the end of the crop insurance deadline.

3592 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 14, 2005 That means seeding will come to an end on June 20, and anything that will be seeded after June 20 is very risky at best. So there will be thousands and thousands of acres that will simply not be seeded.

But the biggest problem will be that the weeds that are growing in all of these fields are going to have to be dealt with some way, because if we do not take care of them, if we do not kill them one way or another, they will set seed and the weed contami- nation of those fields will go on for years and years after and those costs are going to have to be borne by somebody. So somebody should make the Minister of Agriculture (Ms. Wowchuk), the minister of industry and commerce, and the minister of environ- ment should make a decision. They should do it now.

They should say, "Yes, we will provide special licence that these aircraft sprayers can be put into the fields and allow them to put chemicals on those fields that they can kill the weeds that will infest and contaminate the soil for years after." That needs to happen. I think it is also important to note that the livestock industry that has suffered two years of virtually no net income in Manitoba is again, today, in those areas suffering badly.

Not only can they not put their cows into pasture because it is all under water, but the calves that are dependent on those cows for sustenance and nourishment will not be able to get feed because those farmers have no feed left that they can feed th ose cows in some feedlots and even the feedlots are so soggy and wet that it is simply impossible to imagine that cows could be kept there. But those are some of the economic impacts that this government must face. This government should step up to the plate as we did in 1999 when southwest Manitoba had a spring like this and that farmers could not seed their crops.

We, then, went to visit with those farmers. I remember well a meeting in an arena. There were almost 3000 people in that arena, and then a week later we went to Brandon. The whole Cabinet went to Brandon. When we came out of that Cabinet meeting, Mr. Deputy Speaker, we announced a $50-an-acre cash payment to those farmers who had not been able to get onto their land and to provide assistance to them, that they could take care of their land and put it in proper shape, that they could put a crop into it the following year. That is what needs to happen now.

These farmers are sitting there not knowing what to do, and our government is sitting on its hands, knowing what to do but not having the fortitude to make the decisions in a timely manner, and that has been the problem with this government from day one. First of all, when they first ran, they said, "Give us $15 million, six months, and we will fix the health care system." Well, look at how they fixed the health care system. * (15:40) I believe the budget for health care now is over a billion dollars more than it was in 1999, more than a billion dollars more, and have they fixed anything? No. Not a thing.

The only thing that they have done– go to Emerson. Take a trip down 75 highway, that four-lane highway that is falling apart. Take a trip down to the U.S. border. Tell me if you can find an "H" sign, a hospital sign at Emerson. We always proudly displayed that sign. We held it up so when tourists came by and they ran into trouble, they knew where there was an emergenc y room that they could attend. As soon as they hit the Manitoba border, they knew there was health care there. Now this govern- ment has lifted the health care sign in Emerson. There are no more emergency services provided at that hospital.

It is amazing. The economic devastation that has taken place in this province since this NDP govern- ment took over is astounding. The people are starting to catch on now with the Gomery inquiry in Ottawa and the Crocus inquiry in Manitoba. The devastation that has been rendered to investors simply is important to note. I want to end, Mr. Deputy Speaker, by saying that the crop insurance program that was put in place that the minister refers to all the time, that we have crop insurance in place, will only function for three years.

Then the ratcheting-down occurs to a point where you get no coverage, the same as the CAIS program that was put in pl ace. That is a three-year ratcheting-down program; at the end of three years, the farmers have no income. The farmers in south- east Manitoba now, this is their third year. There will be no income for those farmers. Mr. Bidhu Jha (Radisson): Mr. Speaker, I rise to speak on this Bill 207 and put some of my points on the record. This is again a very ridiculous motion coming from the opposition without any substance as most of

June 14, 2005 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3593 their recommendations and bill

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	38-3-63
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	38th 3rd hansardpdf 63.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	81927d09466e178f15f597f1e0a82c3f9dc978e5

Source file is stored in the law ingest library (pdf).