VOL. 1 PRELIMINARY UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PERIOD: 3:00 p.m. - 6:00p.m. WEDNESDAY, JUNE 2, 1982 NO. 14

.:.>_ June 2,1982 The House met at 3:00 p.m. Mr. Speaker in the Chair Tape No. 802 MR.SPEA KER (Russell): Order, please! ah-1 Before be begin the proceedings of the day I wish to refer to a point of privilege raised by the hon. Minister of Fisheries (Mr.Morgan), I think it was on May 26th. I have reviewed the excerpts and decided that the minister did not establish a prima facie case so,therefore,he does not have a point of privilege.

With regard to the point raised by the hon. member for Bellevue (Mr.Callan) yesterday,! have read the transcripts and really there was no point of privilegc,just a difference of opinion as to allegation of facts between two hon. members. MR. SPEAKER: Council. MR.MARS!lALL: STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS The bon. President of the Mr. Speaker, all hon. members are aware of the recent action by the federal government to unilaterally refer the issue of offshore jurisdiction over Newfoundland's offshore resources to the Supreme Court of Canada.

Members will recall that it was as the result of that Grbitr<Jry .-md unfortunate action that this hon. House of Assembly unanimously passed a resolution condemning the federal government's initiative. The han. the Premier felt that Newfoundland's other representatives should join in support of this measure and subsequently, on May 24,1982,wrote Newfoundland's five Liberal MPs and Liberal Senators requesting that they stand with the elected representatives in this hon. House on this issue.

As far as our PC Members and PC Senators are concerned, we have had their hearty endorsation as good Newfoundlanders. 1 7 0 11

June 2,1982 Tape No. 802 ah-2 MR. MJ\.RSHJ..LL: Because of the seriousness of the matter, the Premier requested the l'IPs <md Senators to reply within twenty-four hours. To date, Mr.Speaker, I regret to say that only two of the five Newfoundland Liberal MPs have t:eplied, ~nd only one l.iberal SE!nator, has replied.a.sidc of course, from Scn,'ltor r.ri.c Cook who on his own initiative condt:mneo the federal 'J<lVetnmcnl'H •lc.;Li(JI1 in .! VCI'Y c;!v.11· dllll llllf'I"JUiVo<;<ll lll.llliH:I. SOME RON. ~ID1BERS: Hear, hear! MR.MARSUALL: Mr.

Speaker, it is most regretful that three of our Nc\vfoundland five Liber«l MPs, including the Hon. tVilliam Rompkey, Mr. David Rooney and ~lr. Brian Tobin, failed to even acknmtleclge this request by the Premier to support ,, resolution unanimously passed by this hon. House. tt is equally regretful, Mr. Speaker, that the Premier failed to hear from two o: our r.iberal Senator::;, namely, Senators RO\·le and Petten t'> whom ,I miqht and ,very little has been request~! in the past ns rcrrcsent~tivPs or this Province i.n l:.hc, ~;cnarc~ nf C;:~nacl.'l. 1 7 [j s

June 2, 1982 Tape 803 EC - 1 Ml<. M/\HSII/\1.1.: Mt·. Spc.lker, the• fact- that these M.P. s and senators refused even to acknowledge ill<' ::itH:vt•• dtld l•••til illtdl<· II''ILI<'::I ill ::tq>[>!111 •>I d position taken by this hon. House, speaks for itself and is demonstrative of the total lack of appreciation for what this fundamental issue means to the future of the Province,economically and socially. It is a sad day, indeed, •·•hen our own Newfoundland M.P.s and Senators refuse to stand up for the rights of this Province. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. MARSHALL: However, Mr.

Speaker, though the two Liberal M.P.s and one Liberal Senator referred to did take the trouble to reply, it should in no way be misconstrued as an indication of their condemnation of the federal qovernment's jnsuJting and arrogant actions. Indeed, Mr. Speaker, they were anything but supportive of the resolution. Mr. Speaker, I wish to table today telexes from Mr. George Baker, M.P. for Gander - Twillingate, Mr. Roger Simmons, M.P. for Burin - St. George's and Senator Derek Lewis, in which they outlined their positions with respect to the resolution. The Premier's reply to each telex is also attached.

I should like to advise this hon. House that the reply from the M.P. from Gander - Twillingate was by far the most supportive of the three received. Mr. Baker endorses the resolution but claims, and I quote, that it is " ambiguous, contradictory and incomplete." As the Premier so aptly replied to Mr. Baker, Mr. Speaker, "If the resolution which was endorsed by the provincial Legislature is as you suggest- ambiguous, contradictory and incomplete -what is the nature of your endorsement?" ·1 7 u R

June 2, 1982 Tape 803 EC - 2 MR. MARSHALL: The reply of the M.P. for Burin - St. George's (Mr. Simmons), on the other hand, can only be described, Mr. Speaker, as contemptuous in the extreme. Unbelievably, the member asks in all seriousness,how he could possibly condemn the federal government's actions. The member then incredibly goes on to suggest that despite his position, he is on the side of Newfoundland. Mr. Speaker, I can only repeat what the Premier said in his telex in reply to Mr. Simmons.

Referring to the federal government's unilutcr<Jl decision to rcf~)r the ofr: -;!Jon~ i SSUl' lo the Supreme Court of Canada, the Premier stated, and I quote: "It is a sad day in Ncwfoundluncl and Labrador when a Quebec newspaper shows greater sensitivity for what is at stake here, not only for Newfoundland.but for all of Canada, than our own Liberal M.P.s." Indeed, Mr. Speaker, it is a sad day for Newfoundland. The response by Senator Derek Lewis, I rc~Jrct to su.y, offered no more support than those of the others referred to.

Senator Lewis failed to even make mention of the federal government's ~nilateral action, but instead chose to make some vaquc general statements about the need for both levels of government to reach a negotiated settlement. This, Mr. Speaker, then, constitutes -:.he total support which the Netvfoundland peoole and this hon. House have received from 1 7 u 7

,Junt) 2, 1982 'l'<ljH' No. 804 M<l - .l MR. W. MARSHALL: federal M.P.'s and senators, that is, I say our federal Liberal M.P.'s and our federal Liberal Senators. It just goes to show that if the government of this Province did not remain vigilant over Newfoundland's rights or failed to steadfastly defend the legitimate interests of our people in this Canadian Confederation, we have every··reason to doubt that our own Liberal M.P.'s and most of our Senators would act in our defence. Needless to say, Mr. SJ~aker, this government will never fail to carry out its responsibility to the people of our Province.

In conclusion I would like to add that it is most unfortunate that the responses from all of our Newfoundland Liberal repres<~n tati ves in Canada could not t-eflcct- thi:lt of :>C'n<tl:ot- P:r.ic Cook. S<!nutor Cook needed no prodding and no requests for support from Premier Peckford or anyone else. Upon hearing the federal government's unforgivable and inexcusable actions which constituted not only an insult to Newfoundland people,but equallv an effort to the Canadian judicial system, Senator Cook acted decisively and swiftly in showing where he stood on this fundamentally important issue. lie demonstrated, Mr.

Speaker, that the people of his l'rovinc<' c<lffi<' first .1nd thr' t.iucr·.li l'ilrty or Cunild.l second. Our own Liberal M.P.'s and senators would do well to emulate him in the execution of their responsibilities which first and foremost should be the defence of the riqhts of Newfoundland ~nd Labrador in this nation. The Newfoundland people, Mr. Speaker, deserve better from their representatives. SOME HON. MEMBERS: llear, hear! MR. MARSHALL: And with this statement, Mr. Speaker, I table the telegrams, particularly that of Mr. Simmons, and draw your attention to the observations of Mr.

Simmons and also the responses of the hon. the Premier. There are copies for all hon. gentlemen. 1 7 u A

June 2, 1982 SOME HON. !>1EMBE:<S: MR. S. NEARY: Tape No. 804 Hear, hear! Nr. Speaker.. MJ -2 MR. SPEAKER (Russell): '!'he hon. the Leader. of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. S~eakcr, my undrrstandinq of the rules of this llnusc is th;1t· 11 Mini~•r-cr\.11 St:nrt•U\('111 lw:: t<1 be brief and factual. !t has to convey information and not encourage debate. Novr 1 1\1r. Speaker, in my j ndycment the hon. gentleman broke all the rules of the House in that reqard.

It is not a bric r statement, it is not 1'o1ctual, in my OJJ~nion 1 Sir 1 .i. t is merely an attempt on the part of: the udministratio·n to start the federal election cilmpaiqn early, nnd that is what they arc doing. 'l'hcy have taken the nKH;L important Jssue in Ncwfoundlnud and turned it into partisan politics. They are making a political football out of the offshore resources. Now, ~tr.

Speaker 1 I '"ill be brief and factuaL 1"1nd my opinion of the statement is this; that it is the sort of thin<J we have come to <'XP0Ct from thi~ mnc1-h.ltl'«!r .ulminisl r.11 i11n. <10<1 t:hildish dOC} <1 ri 1<.: of Clll>hiSh. 0~ ,901-:STIONS MR. \~ . CALLAN : t<!r. Speak<'•-. 1 7 u ,, fl· i!; i IIV\'11 i I('

June 2 , 1982 Tape 805 PK - 1 MR .~'l~AKER (Rul:_isell ): 'l'he hon . member for Bellevue. MH . C"/\JJJ.J\N: Mr . Speaker, 1 want to ask the Minist er <)f flealth (Mr. House) il cou ple of yuestions . First of all, could the Minister of Health inform the House what is the qpve.rnment's liltest position on the future of the Old Perlican Hospital? And at \vhat point in time was that new position dec.irled uoon~· ,.,hen was the decision made? What is the latest qovernment position? And v1hen was that dccisi.on mildc? .t-1R. SPEAKER: The hon . Minister of Health . --- MR . HOUSE: Mr .

Speaker , the latest position on the Old Perlican ·Hos~ital still as in the budqc t procedure , that it will phase out as an in- patient fncility . llowevc t:' , the Premier has ilske<l myself and the Minister of Social Services (Hr . llickey) to have officials from both our departments evaluate the building . It is a bui l dinq - a forty - four bed unit . ~IlL CI\.LI,fi.N : 'l'oll u~; about the -·-- - MR . HOUSE: It is a forty-eight bed un~t . T t hl'ls h,,<.l a r a:i ,. iliiiOu n t or w0rk clone on it over th e last couple of years because of the recommendations of the Fire 11arshal.

We sent people down to l0ok at i t to see if it can be trut Lo some other usc . sn there has been no decision made except to get an eva l uation . And that evaluation or recommendation for other use \vill be forthcoming pres umably sometime this week . t)m . CALLAN : A supplementary, Mr . Spe'aker. MR . SPF.l\KER: 1\ supplementary , the hon . member for Oellevue . MR . CALLAN: Mr . Speaker , then that leads me to ask the question rcgardi.n(j the future of the Markland '1711'1

June 2, 1982 Tape 805 PK - 2 MR. CALLJ\N: Cottaqc llospital. Docs che minister intend to have the same sort of re-evaluation or study conducted with regard to the possible mai.ntcnnncc as is of the Cottaqe Hospital at 1-lilrklancl or is the decision rC<ji.U:'din q the Mark land Cott<lqC f!Ospi Lal ri.nal ilS J>Cr the nutlqc t Speech ·.• !>1R. SPEAKER: (Russell) : The hon. Minister o( Health. NR . HOOSE: Mr. Speaker, the evaluatio n of the Markland Hospital has been ongoin~ for a number of years. ~nn a~ T mentioned in the House a few days ago, two day $ <Jl)C:, this i:> ;J L<..:H bed unit, Len certif ied bed unit.

It has sixteen beds but only ten of them arc certified for proper use. And this particular hospital in Markland has been unde r study and under review for a number of years. As a matter of fact I hav~ met with the Committee on two occasions and th~ 1 7 I I

June 2, 1982 Tupc No. 806 SD - 1 MR. HOUSE: officials of the department hu. ve been rncctill<J peri odicaJJ y OVL' r- the lu.s L two or three ycurs with a view to phasinq the hospital down as an in-patient facility,. based on the number of admissions and the proximity to St. John's where,incidentally, most of the people qo. So what we had planned there was to have a clinic and a four bed holding unit that could do all the emergency services that is presently being done. The hospital has fallen.

For instance, in the last five years in admissions, for instance, in 1977-78 there were 831 admissions, 1978-79 there were 754, 1979-80- 637, 1980-81- 582 and the last year was 457 which means there is more than 100 lr iII •+ t·JI!. lll:/1 I' , : l I"" 11d i I • I" J MR. HOUSE: We evaluated that particular hospital u.nd we do not think that that purticular building has any further valuable use. MR. CALLAN: MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : for Bellevue. Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Supplementary, the hon. member MR. CALLAN: Mr.

Speaker, the minister finished by suyin~ he does not think that the building has any other further use. The minister is aware, I am sure, that many thousands of dollars have been spent on renovating and repairing the Marklund Cottage Hospital in very recent years. Now,as I understand the news media reports and so on,the facility at Old Perlican will be, I suppose.for want of another expression, another word, it will be essentially almost a senior citizens horne, so to speak.

I am wondering has the minister or anybody in his department given any thought to maintaining the cottage hospital at Markland, the building at least, in that sort of a capacity. the capacity of a horne for senior citizens? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Health. 1 7 it

June 2, 1982 Tape No. 806 so -2 MR. !lOUSE: Mr. Speaker, thut particular hospital, the Markland Hospital, has been looked at with that view. The fact of the matter is. it i3 very difficult to put <lny or the c>:istin<J colle~rJc hospita] s, <incl some ;n·c, " little different from others, put them in a position to be able to take adequately the chronic care ~eo~le. You h~vR to bear in mind it is just one big open space or open ward, that is all it is and you do not put people for the rest of their lives in that kind of a situation. So that has been looked at and has not been deemed adequate for that purpose. There has been nobody either has said that 1 7 I -t

June 2, 1982 Tape No. 807 NM - 1 MR. HOUSE: the Old Perlican Hospital is beinq looked at in that liqht ei·UlCr. The fact is that Social Services has a fairly larqe number of kin~s nf responsibilities and they are just looking at it with a view to some of their responsibilities. And the Department of Health, which incidentally is primarily responsible for acute care and only marginally responsible for chronic care,is out there with Social Services to look at it in the light of Social Services needs.

So that hospital- neither one of them I do not think,will be quite adequate for that particular function, the function of chronic care. We have looketl at several of our cottage hospitals in that respect. As a matter of fact. I had some ·debate on that this morning in the estimates. None of them are really suited to that. So Markland has been looked at in that light but we do not think, and I do not think anybody else can go there and say that it would be valuable for that purpose.

Markland, like Burin,for instance, last year, did receive a facelift because of the need for life safety, that is wiring and fire walls in various places. We had to do that supposing we were going to close it out within the year. And we know 1 for instance, that Burin may phase out when the new hospitill comes onstream in Salt Pond, but we still have to have life -snrety measures. So I think I have adequately answered the question, Mr. Speaker. MR. CALLAN: MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : hon. member for Bellevue. MR._ CALLAN: A final supplementary, Mr. speaker. A final supplementary, the Mr.

Speaker, from what I can read into the answers and the partial answers that the minister is giving, from what I can read into it, you know, 1 7 ll~

.June 2, 1982 Tupe No. 807 NM - 2 MR. CALLAN: there have been no previous studies conducted on either one of these hospitals, I am wondering if the minister would confirm or deny that by - if there have been studies would the minister table them in the House of Assembly? And I also seem to read into the minister's ilnswers that there is no thought whatsoever given to the possibility of a second look at Markland.

I am wondering if that ~e the case do~s Lhe decision regarding the two hospitals, does it have anything to do with the politics, you know the fact that one hospital is in a PC district, and the other one in a Liberal. Would the minislvr Cdr!' Lo ,\ltSW<.!r Lltc~l'i SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear~ MR. NEARY: That is shockinq! MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. Minister of Health. MR. POWER: The one in Port aux Basques, give them that one. MR. HOUSE: Mr.

Speaker, the first hospital that this administratio~ built, the first ]>rime biq LLnnouncement that the Premier of this Province made was the construction ol <1 lt(•:i]li I d I iII l'orl diiX ild:;qut~:;. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear: MR. IIOUSfo:: /\nd Lhal w; ·,:; <t J.iber<Jl cl isl:rict, Mr. Speaker. MR. MORGAN: We do not play politics with the people. MR. HOUSE: Of course that hospital is the one hospital, that is the one hospital this year that is receiving most money in constructi~n. MR. NEARY: As long as we get it we do not carr) who gets the credit for it? MR. POWER: MR.

HOUSE: !lad to please poor o I cl S tevic, boy. Mr. Speaker, no indeed. The fact is that,whether the bon. member wants to know it or believe it.. or Hot, there has been - you do nul h..:tve to have an intense study of that particular institution, the Markland, to determine 1 7 i ~

June 2, 1982 •rape No . 807 NM - 3 MH . IIOUSI·:: Lhat it is not adcyuate for any of these purposes thal he has talked about. And I do not think you can go and find any booklet, any detailed study, written study, but certainly I can get documentation of meetings that I personally have held with the board, and the medical people there, and it is the understandin9 that they knew that the hospital was going to close and that it wou ld be to a clinic status . MR . NEARY : Table your studies. Table the studies then . 1 7 111

June 2,1982 Tape No . 808 ah-1 MR . HOUSE: I never said that , I said I do not know if I have ,, WI illc.:ll :>lthlj· · Wv lt.tV•• •• ''" ' 11111 t.i11•1 , •• tlld WI ' lt.tvo• •1"11'' through the building . You ~o :tot sit <:own t·o dca 1 with this . Three or four years .,,e have been going back and !orth to that hospital,the staff and myself. and it has been deemed - and that board,and the member can say what he likes, the bou r.u unci tht! pco(J I •: i.n Lhu L <lt'l!.t knew chat that hc·snital was going to phase down to a clinic with L'r"c rqcncy hol dj nq bcus for 1n the case C"f accidents. SOME' H'Ol\1-.

MEMBERS ! llc .lr , hear ! MR . SPEAKER (RU~Eclll : Or<.le.r, please ! Before I recogn i zc th~ hor: . mcmbe r r 0 r 'l'ormJil t Houn L.li ns (r1 r. lvnrren) r would like to welcome to the cJallcrics todaveiqht senior special education students from ,J.r-1. Olds Collegiate in 'l'Willin'l,tlc. with their tl!a<:hcrs Mr . (;,,qr~>tc .uul ~It·:.; Dutt . I do indeed \velcome you to the qollcrics today . Sm1E liON . l·lEI'-113ERS : Ilea r , he a r ! 1>1R .SPEAKER : The hon . member for 'l'orngat Mountain .

MR.WARREN: Nr . speaker, it is surprising to see eight Cabine t ministers absent but,howcvcr I will direct my question to the Hinistor (>r 'l't·o nsportotion, {to1r . Da we) . MR. ST AGG : They are juat doing their jobs . MR . CALLAN : You arc ..1 secretory now. I-1R . I-IARREN : lias the Minister of Tra nsportwtion (~1r . Dawe) received any cnr"espondcncc c:-i thc:-r by telephone or by letter or telegrarr l rom Coastal L.abrado.r conccrninq a major food shortage in Rl<tck 1'ickle cH ' nny other t'r>mm1mj t i t•s in f.ulll:hc:-rn l.i:tll.-:ldcrt ··! MR . SPEAKER : The hnn .

Mini :-;tcr n f Tr:.~nspt>rtation . 7 i 7

June 2,1982 Tape No. 808 ah-2 MR. DAWE: No, Mr. Speaker, I have not received any such correspondence that I know of to date. MR.SIMMS: MR.WARREN: MR.SPEAKER (Russell): for Torngat Mountains. MR.Wl\RREN: A good answer. Mr. Speaker. 1\ supplementary. The han. member I am surprised, Mr.Speaker, that in the ahs<"'nc<"' of my colleu.<fue from Eagle River (Mr.lliscock)- DR. COLLINS : MR.Wl\RREN: I wonder where he is? Well ,he might be in the same place that the hon. member for Port de Grave (Mr. Collins) is.

He has been in this House more often than the member for Port de Grave (Mr.Collins) has been,so it is no good askinq childish questions. MH. TIODDJ·:H: Where are the eight ministers? MR.Wl\RREN: And where are the eight ministers today, Mr. Speaker? And this is why I am asking the question to the Minister of Transportation (Mr.Dawe). I understand, Mr. Speaker, that the minister's department has been contacted ann I am just wondering if. the minister could check it out with his officials.

Knowincr that the minister's department is responsible for, I think ·i.t is two or three helicopters on charter from Scaland Helicopters in Goose Bay , could there be arrangements made within the next two or three days to have the essential food supplies such as flour, milk, sugar and so on thnt the community of Black Tickle is completely out of - and in conversation with the nurse in the community and in conversation "ith the town chairman there is nearly a crisis stage- could the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Dawe) look into this serious matter and see if they can alleviate this shortage? MR.

SPEAKER: MR.DAWE: The hon.Minister of Transportation. Yes, Mr. Speaker. 1 7 i B

June 2,1982 Tape No. 808 ah-3 MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. Leader of the Opposition . MR.NEARY: My colleague the hon. member for Torngat Mountdins (Mr. Warren) pinch hitting for my colleague who is in New Yo~k at the moment asked ., 7 i ~

June 2, 1982 Tape 809 EC - l MH. NJ::J\RY: some very l:>Crious questions of the minister in connection with the food shortaqe in Southern Labrador . MIL D/\1-JI::: lie asked me to do something . UR. NEARY: Well, I am amazed, like my hon . colleague, Mr . Speaker, that the hon . gentleman is not aware of it . His colleague, the Minister of Rural, Agricultural ancl Northern Development (Mr . Goudie ) is certainly aware of it . MR. MARSHALL: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER (Russell) :_ Order , please! On a point of order, ,.,r .

Spe<:~ker . 'I'IK• hon . the IIK !IRhC r for 'l'orntJilt ,.,ountains (Hr . Warren) nsknd the hon . the Mi.nist ~r of 'L'rilnsport .ation (t-tr . Dawe) a question to which he responded. This is the Question Period . The hon. the Leader of the Opposition can ask a question if he wishes, but this is not the period for reflections, comments and speeches . SOl-lli HON . MEMBERS : MR . SPEAKER: llenr, hear ! Order, please ! I would request the hon. the Leader of the Opposition to direct his question to a specific minister. MR . NEARY: Mr. Speaker, my questio n is addressed to the t-linister of 'l'ransportal:.ion .

Would the minister indicate to the llousc if he will undertake without delay to arrange for transportation, eit her by aircraft or helicopter .to alleviate the desperate shortage of food, essential food items, in Port Hope Simpson in Southern Labrador? MR . SPEAKER : The hon . the Minister of Transportation . ·1 7 2 (l

June 2, 198 2 Tape 809 EC - 2 MR . OA~1E : ~tr. Speaker, I will check with the officials in my department, ,.;ho, I assume, if what hon . members have said is correct, have been contacted and have been informed, and as soon as the sicuation is assessed, as we have done ~n other circumstanc~s all avec this Province, we will take '~hatever action is necessary to alleviate the problem . ~1R. HODDER : Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKEH ( RI..SScll) : Port au Port. NR. IIODDEH : 'l'hc han . the member (or 1-1r .

Spu.lkl'r, f hav~ · ,, question Cor the MinlsL~.:r of l'inanee . l ~>1 ould llkc Lo ask che ~unister of Finance if we arc lo sing funds on the mediu tax which was imposed t\~o budgets ago . t~R. SPEAKER : The han . che r-tinistcr of Finance . DR. COLLINS : Mr. Speaker, we do not usually aim to lose funds when we impose a tax . And, of course, ~he media ta:. is i10 ciiffcrent from cmy o~"'er tax . 1'rle are ga thcriny revenues throuqh the impo:;i t ion <>f the n•venuc tax . SOME HON . M.EHBERS: rill .

C'Of.f.TN~: Hear, hear! l mi qht ::: 1y 1 h.,t- th1· r"v••nn•· tax is not a tax on the media as such, che revenue tax is on those "1h0 actually "consume advertising", that ls, those pe:nple who u:lvcrtisc IJOC>d~; nml l>ervice:-o J or sale. MH. JIQI.)l.>J::R : MR. SPEAKER : 1\ supplementary, Mr. Si>eakcr . 1\ supplementary, the han . the member for Port au Port . l1R. HODDER : Mr. Speaker, is the minister aware: of the report done by Professor tt.:~nnon at Hcmori<ll University, which sald th<ll ; Lhc fun<ls projected ·1 7 2 I

June 2, 1982 Tape 809 EC - 3 MR. HODDER: in that budget were for $750,000 for the first year and $1.5 million for the "1 7 2 ('

June 2, 1982 Tape 810 PK - 1 MIL HODDE~ : second vear, but so far onlv Sll26,000 have been collected? l't'ould the minister consider droooi.nq thoL o.:.trticular tax? HR. NEARY. Yes, boy it is only wasting tJ.me. :-IR. SPEAKER (Russell): 'l'he hen. Minister of Fi::~ance . DR. COLLINS: Mr . Spcakc1·, T ilm ;n,ra rc or that report.

And,i[ T recall eorrcclly,thc report was commi ssion(••l by .1 qroup of l:n•npiln ic-s \vho wen· i nl <-~1'•·~1 •·d in questioninq the constitutionality o: the tax ,thc imposition of tax by the Province. \>Jhen that report was rcccived.~r short 1y aftct· th.1t r;•porl' w:1!': rN'Pivcd,lhc il'Sitc' came up ln the Supreme court as Lo whether the case should be presentt•d.

An:. hon . me:mhcrs m<1y be- IWUr\.· Lhat Lh<.• coun3el for that Jroup of companies, who was qoinq to , shall -..-Je say, take the Pz::ovince to court over tl' is tax, ~hey elected to ask that the case be postponed, and lL was postnoncd indefinitely. 1\t the time I bt~licvc the <:oun scJ suwtcstccl th.:lt this rc.:port was bci nq sLudi ('tl by qov••rnml~nl . i\nd we did rccei vc tht' report Lind W<' hav<' 'I i vcm it ~1111 1<' s t wlv, hnl' il was not our n:qu.:.:st:. that tht• Co1S<} not:. qo ahc:<~cl .

So I c.1n only 11ssumc thnl · t:hl' comp.111y f,.l t tlw r!'pnrt rNd ly did nnt support the action that they wishcn to undc•·t.1ke . !-1R . SPE.I\KER : A supplementary , the hon . member [or Po:-t au· Port . MR . HODDER: ~r. Sp0~ker, the report said that the tax was drivinq major advcrtis0rs From lhc Provi nce, ·..:ns clis,..riminatinq b1~tWt:cn ""'' ipus mcdi.L and Lh.:l t·, it w.1~ ht 1· L i nq rc.:L:1 i 1 l:ax rPVCnllc!:. 111 liqht · or lh:ll, Mr. Speaker, has the minisLcr had any indication at all that we an~ losjmJ rcvenuc 1particularly since thco rq>Ort s<tid thut 172j

June 2, 1982 Tape 810 PK - 2 MR. HODDER: lr;'e had lost some millions ol tlollilrS of rl'VL'rl\H ' IJ(!Cil\lS(' nr Lhc t;t:·:·,· ·-N{R.. NEARY : -- - ---- They cannot collect it . MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. Minister of Finance . DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, such remarks as the hon.member stated were in the report are not new. Ever since the tax was brought in in 1979 , ·1 7 2 ;f

June 2, 1982 ·r.:1pc No. s 1. 1 SO -I DH. COLLINS: we have had rcpr.·el:>cn~ltions fr.om I might say, interested par~ies.particularly advertising associations ancl so on and so forth. and they have come out "'ith identical remarks to the ones that arc stated to be in the report. \tWhcm they have been made to us, and we have had '' nnml.J••r 1 t vi !-l i 1 ...

LiOn!> IJ<>Lh I r""' :oawh 111 ')drli /.·It ion:: h,.,.,. in t~c Province and from organizations on the mainlanr, we have asked these individuals to present us with factual details to support their suggestions and ull.eqations . .1\nd to d.-1te tr.e only receipt ~tie have had of such fnctual details was the report thaI the hon. member has men L i onccJ, '"'r'l "'e are subjectinq that to the study. Out on a oreliminarv h~~j~ w~ can sny t:h.Jt it rc;1ll y tlcJcs n<)t: <:ldd <:tnythinrJ ve:ry nc.'\-1 to \oJh.tt is ,, l ready known to the dopil rtrncnt. M.R. !!ODDER: MR. SPEAKER (Russell): member for Port au Port.

Pinal suppl~mcntary, Mr. Spuaker. Pinal supplementary, the hon. MR. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, since the report did say that we are losing revenue from the Province and that the Province is only collectinq $626,000, is the minister saying nO\ol that he j s going to ign0rc tlt.1t n:::po,·t clnd that lw L); qoinq Ln t'~>liLiuuc• willt llr1~ ·;Lttpid l.1x·,• MR. SPEAKER: DR. COLLINS: 'Phe hon. Mi.nistcr of Finunce. No, Mr.

Speaker, I diu not say that we \"ere yoinq to iqnorc the report, 1 said 1~c 1-1ere going to study the report. vJhat I did say was that there \oJas no net·l factual infor·mation in the report thut ~1ould lead us to accept the remarks nnd nlleqations that huvr' bee-n made to us many times. MR. LUSH: MH. SPEAKER: t·m. LUS!i: Mr. Speak<~r. Tho hon. mvmbcr for 'rcn:-a Nova. Mr. Spcakcr, some tim~ .:1<10 r t".tiS<"l nn intpnrt<~nt· qut·:>t.inn, :t:; ·"'' .tll ~~~~· qw•:.;t illfll-; 1 raise, an important question, •:ir, rclatin<J to th~ unorthodC)X 'I 7 2 :-t

June 2, 1982 '!'ape No . 811 so - 2 MR . LUSH: method used to catch rabbits in this Province and oLher sma ll qam e. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh , oh! MR . LUSII : tton . members may laugh - thjs is an imporl:<tnt matter , Mr . Speaker , destroyinq the rabbits in this Provinc: e nnd small qnme by thi!'l methoo that is against every conservation method , by this method that is mos t i nhumane, a met hod , ~lr . Speaker , of using gill nets in our forests to catch these rabbits and other small game . I raise the question with the - AN HON . MEMBER : {j naudible l MR .

TULK: They probably got loans from his department . ~1R . LUSH: Naybc some of the environ- mentalists and some hunters throughout this Province can be told of how hon . members opposite are regarding this question - some or them very , very concer ned . r>1r . !'>pcak<'r , 1 rn i sed thn question, the minister said he was <Joinq to take the yuestion under advisement and report back to the House, I -v;onder whether the minister has checked into this and what he has found? MR . SPEl\KER (RUSSf::f,L) : 'fhe hon . t-linister of Culture, Recreation , and Youth . MR . S (~IMS: Mr .

Speaker, T have to agree with the hon . member that his questions are very important . Not nearly as important as the answers that are given usually . But I have checked into the matter ·1 7 2 f1

June 2, 1982 Tape No. 812 MJ -I MR • L . S Tht'-15 : somev1hat, and I am advised that yes, j_ndeed,there ha;re been reports that: on occasion this so.rt of incident has occurred. So I am a\</are of it. MR. T. LUSH: 1\ supplemQntary, Mr. Speake, .. MR. SPEAKER {Ru~sell): A supplementary. the han. the member ff)l:" 'i'crra Nnva. t~R. LUSIL: Nnw, Lhr~n. lh;1t tit~.· Hl'inisl~l' h;a:-; rhc•ckr•cl i ntq l" th i :; ;wrl r.,11ntl cwt t-11.11 l t I:.; •!<)i n•i on on a larqe scale.

I wonder if the ministc1-could ln<.hcate tn the ll(nasc wh.::t actinn hi.s dr~pnrlmL•nt pl.:1ns to bake in !:his respect. 11lt~ SI'E/\KhRi._ 'l'h~~ hon. lht-MinisL<•r ol <.:ullltrc·, Recreation and Vcuth. Ml~. SI M14S : Yes, Mr. ~pcakcr, first of al1, T should point out that the difficulty ;s that the act itself was silent and did not address the issue specifically so, thet"efore unfortunately, it was neithe:r legal or ille<]al to do this.

But just to indicate and give an e>:ample of the type of positive action that this qovernmnnl is undcrtakimJ nnrl thi~ pnrticular clcapctmcnt. insli~Uctions h.JV(.! qonv out to lill;' or I it:i<J I:; Lc. have lcqisl<~tion <lraftcd, hupc~fully i.t will b<· brouqh!· j n this scs~.ion, ':o make tht.lt: part. i cu 1 .• 1 r tyJJc• of i m: i dc•nL i I lc•q.11. SOME JlON. MEMBERS: Ilea r, 11e<~ r! NR. SPEP.KER: 13e fore I r<!coqn i ze an•,thc r member I would like to vlclcomc to the qallerics twenty qr:adc VIII students from St.. Anne's School in Dunville ,.,.ith their teacher Mr. Mur·phy.

I welcome you i~deed to the qalleries. SOME liON. MEMBERS: !lear, hear! fofR. G. WA~REN : Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the mc.•mbcr for Tornqat Mountain~. MH. WliRRI;N: V<'r:., M1·. ~:pc•olkl'l·, I h;av<' ,1 supplementary (J~;estion to the Minister of Cui tureo, l<ecreation 1 7 2 7

June 2, 1982 T:!p<.' No . 812 M.l - 2 ~tR . G . \oJJ\RHJ::N : ::~n(J Youth (Mr . 1 •. Simms) ilntl it rlw·~; r·nm:<•r"ll ro~ hl lil!; . WI ' o~ r·,. q•·l ·l inq pn•p:1u·d nnw for J·h,, opening of the rabbit season coming up in October , I am just wondering if the minister considered having areas of the Province set aside for hunting rabbits by means of dogs and also by the individual snaring them? In the past there have been very close calls with hunters in the woods with the quns and dogs , while :"lCo!:>le were in there snarinq at the same time .

Has there been any consideration given to having uiffcrent sections o[ the Province set aside f(l l' - l>1R. I~ . CALL/\N : Snarinq . f-Ill. \~1\IHmN: - sn:1 ri nq t1nd fnr the hund ll(j vf rabbits? SOMf: liON . ~IEMRJ· :I~S : Oh , oh! MR . SH'!MS : Mr. Speaker , in the short three week p0riod that r hnve been the minister,unfortunately l cannot say that that is one of the issues ·1 7 2 ~I

June 2, 1982 Tupe No. 813 NM - 1 MR. SIMMS: I have addressed,but I will look into it. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, if we can get away from the rabbits for a few minutes I would like to ask the Minister of Mines and Energy, if he or the Premier have had any representation from Labrador City protesting the policy of the Iron Ore Company of Canada in contracting out work to private contractors? MR. SPEAKER: MR. NEZ\RY: The hon. Minister of Development. I did not know thut the gentleman was the Minister of Mines and Energy, Mr. Speaker. MR.

WINDSOR: The hon. gentleman does not know what is what, docs he? MR. NEARY: I thought I would direct my question, Mr. Speaker, to somebody who I thought might be able to answer it intelligently. So that is why my question is directed to the SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. NEARY: So would the Minister, whichever minister wants to answer it, Mr. Speaker, tell the House what action has been taken on these communications from the unions and other people in Labrador West in connection with contracting out? MR. SPEAKER: MR. WINDSOR: The hon. Minister of Development Yes, Mr.

Speaker, I received a Telex from the union this morning, I responded immediately after consultation with my colleague, the Minister of Labour and Manpower (Mr. Dinn). The meeting has been arranged for Friday afternoon,with the union,here in St. John's. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! 1 7 2 q

June 2, 1982 MR. NEARY : MR. SPEAKER (Russell) MR. NEARY: Tape No. 813 NM - 2 Mr. Speaker. The hon. Leader of the Opposition. Mr. Speaker, a supplementary. Would the hon. qentleman indicate to the House, because I think I r.e.:td - MR. STAGG: (Inaudible). MR. NEARY: No, I have got the same telegram. In the teleqram, by the way, the union wanted to know, because the administration are so quick to pass a regulation barring topless waitresses in this Province, if they would act as swiftly on this matter of contracting out?

Would the hon. gentleman tell the House what the position of the administration is on contracting out. This matter has been on the go now for a considerable period of time. Does the hon. gentleman intend to bring in a piece of legislation into this House to bar . contracting out on behalf of that company? MR. SPEAKER: MR. WINDSOR: The hon. Minister of Development. Mr. Speaker, first of all, the hon. gentleman is not quoting the Telex correctly. The Telex stated that the government brought in legislation dealing with topless waitresses, which of course is not accurate, we simply revised some regulations.

Secondly, indeed we will be taking some action. And in addition to arranging a meeting with the union, I have arranged at least one meeting with one of the mining companies in Labrador City and I am attempting to arrange a second with the other company in the very near future. In addition to that, we have been putting together some facts in the department and the officials have had meetings with officials of the mining companies and that has been ongoing for some time.

We are putting together a full set of facts with which to sit down and discuss with the companies our present practice and whatever action needs to taken to subsequent to those meeting will be taken. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, Mr. Speaker. The hon. Leader of the Op)Josition. ., 7 3 n

June 2, 1982 Tape No. 813 NM - 3 MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, would the hon. Minister of Mines and Energy, or Development, whichever MR. BARRETT: MR. NEARY MR. BARRETT: minister would care to answer the question - It is the same one. It is the same one? Yes. 1 7 3 .,

Juhe 2, 1982 Tape 814 PK - 1 MR. NEARY: Well,would the hon. gentleman tell the House how serious the situation is in Labrador City in connection with layoffs that have taken place? I understand there are 150 people laid off as of today, I believe it is. And how serious is the situation with regard to down time, both with the Iron Ore Company of Canada and with the Wabush Mining Company, Do we have all the facts now or is the situation more serious than we are being told? hnd how serious are the layoffs?

And what steps have this government taken to offset the social and economic impact of layoffs and down time in Labrador City and in Wabush? MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Development. MR. N. WINDSOR: The hon. Minister of Mr. Speaker, obviously any layoff in the mining industry or any other industry in this Province is a serious matter and will be dealt with in that light by this government. We are very concerned about it. We have had meetings as well. my colleagues, the Minister of Labour (Mr. Dinn), and the member for the area (Mr.

Walsh) and !,with representatives from the area and have received briefs from them on some proposals which might alleviate. some or the social implications from the economic implications of the prohJ0~. We are dealing with it and we will do anything that w0 can possibly do within the limitations of this government, and to alleviate those problems. MR. SPEAKER: Stephenville. MR. STAGG: The hon. member for Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth (Mr. Simms).

In the recent budget it was announced that there would be an increase in the fees for non-resident hunters, and T understand that there has been considerable concern expressed by the outfitters in the Province in that regard. And I wonder if the minister could indicate to the 1732

June 2, 1982 Tape 814 J'K - 2 MR. STAGG: House what the position of his department is with regard to the representation that has been made to him. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Culture, Recreation and Youth. MR. SIMMS: The hon. Minister of Mr. Speaker I am very plea~en that the hon. member has asked the question because it has been a matter of some concern.ruiscd by hon. members in this House. But let me say that we have discussed this matter with the Outfitters ~ssociation, 1 7'3 :1

June 2, 1982 Tape 815 EC - 1 MR. SIMMS: and in deciding whether or not to implement this increase in fees, we were aware of the problems that would be encountered if they were implemented for this particular season, 1982. As members are probably aware, outfitters book their clients at least one year - MR. NEARY: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Order, please! Order, please! I would like to get this MR. NEARY: straightened out, Mr. Speaker. It is most improper and irregular to proceed with this kind of questioning during the half hour Question Period, but moreso, Mr.

Speaker, because the question is being asked by the parliamentary assistant to the minister. MR. SIMMS: He is not parliamentary assistant to me. MR. NEARY: I believe, Mr. Speaker, that is a blatant abuse of the rules of this House. MR. YOUNG: (Inaudible). MR. NEARY: MR. LUSH: SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. NEARY: Pardon? How do vou know? Oh, oh~ Well, Parliamentary Assistant to a minister, I do not care what minister it is, Mr. Speaker. MR. HODDER: I think Beauchesne has something about parliamentary assistants in it. MR. NEARY: That is right. Mr. Speaker, I would like for Your Honour - SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR.

NEARY: matter - MR. SPEAKER: MR. NEARY: Oh, oh! No, we may as well get this Order, please! Mr. Speaker, we may as well get this matter straightened out now once and for all. 1 7 3 4

June 2, 1982 Tape 815 EC - 2 MR. NEARY: I would like for Your Honour to give a ruling on whether or not that is considered fair ball in the Oral Question Period. MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, on that. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. the President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: First of all, the hon. the member for Stephenville (Mr.

Stagg) and the other hon. members, while there has been an intention to appoint them and they have, I suppose, for all practical purposes been appointed Parliamentary Secretaries, from a legal point of view, they have, and as Your Honour is aware~ first reading was given yesterday to the bill for the appointment of Parliamentary Secretaries to the ministers of the Crown. So until this act passes, the hon. gentleman is not - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. MARSHALL: - is still able to - and may I say - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR.

MARSHALL: I realize that the purpose of Question Period is also, surely must be, to elicit information, and I am sure this information is of interest to the outfitters and I compliment the member for asking it. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. MARSHALL: I do not see why the hon. the Leader of the Opposition should object to the member for Stephenville asking the minister to bring in a matter of important information,of interest to the people of Newfoundland,and particularly the outfitte-rs. MR. HODDER: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Port au Port. 1 7 ~ s j ,,

.June 2, 1982 Tape 815 EC - 3 MIL IIOOORR: Mr . srcak0r, ncnuchc~nc, Page 134 ,

Section 370, says: "Those such as Parliamentary SccrcLnric~ who ..IL "C cloLhccl with the responsibility of answering for the Government ought not to use the time of the Question Period". MR . NE1\RY: MIL HODDER : !lear , hear ! Hear , hear ! Now , Mr . Speaker , regardless of whether the act has been passed or not , it is a fact that they have been working , and they have been working in their various duties for the past week , Mr . Speaker . Whether the act has been passed or not , they are working and acting as Parliamentary Secretaries . MR . SPEAKER (Rus~El1): Order, please !

It is a very interesting point . 'fhe time for Question Period has expired now . I will give an answer to it tomorrow . PRESENTING REPORTS BY STANDING AND SPECLAL COMMITTEES MR . SPEAKER : The bon . the Minister of Finance . 'I 7 J 6

June 2, 1982 Tape No. 816 SD - 1 DR . COLLINS : Mr . Speak<: r, L wish Lo Lil ble the annual report of the Newfour:ul ilnd Liquor Corpor.:~tion 198 I and the annual report of the Ncwfoundl.:~nd and LabrodQr Compute r Services Limited l9R0/8l . ANS~ERS TO QUESTIONS FOR ~vHICH NOTICE lli\S BEEN GIVEN l-iR. SPEAKER (Rus sell) : Recreation and Yo~th . t-1R . SIM.'-15 : The hon. Minister of Culture, Mr . Spc<~ker, I ·.~ould 1 ik~ to table an answer tt> a question iiSketl by the hon. mcmb~r for Torngat !-tountain s (Mr . loJa.rren) on May 14th . t-m. S I'L:,,KEI<: MR . CALLAN : The answer is nothinq .

PRESENTING PETITIO~S 'l'hu hon. mt••nbt:r J'l"lr 1\,•1 lt•vuc. Mr . Speake r, I beg leave lo present a petit io:t on behalf of the six members of ttw to wn council of Chapel Arm . There are seven s~qnatures on the petition including my own . Nr. Speaker, let me read the pr.:~ycr or Lhc pctjtion· iL soys : 'looJC', Uw undcr!'\iqnud residents of Chup(! I Arm ~n<.l mcmlx~rs <)[ llw l:own <.:ounc.; i J of Chapel Arm, request that t'1e provinciill qovernment make funding available to replace the old brlrlqc over Western Cove Brook ~n Cha~el Arm '. Now, Hr. Speake-r, I have d(lne some inc1ujrinq .lbtlut this bricl<Je.

T umJc-rst:;:~~d Lh<lt p•·"~;cnt studies - and I notice thilt the Minister of Transportation (Mr . OilWC) i~· )till. in hts !j(!ill: bul r IIIJfJ•· lhill lw is wit.hin I i.stcni.nrr d i st.,1nc-::;. llcc-.:t~tsc, M• ·· Spt•.lkt~r , i r r can quot;~· from a letter that was written by the tot"n clerk on behalf of the town council in Chapel 1\rm. it \"iiS wri ttcn lust Fall, September 15th , 1981, written t:o thl.l hon . t he Premier by the town clerk of Chapel Arm on behalf of the council . And t:he town clerk at that time sai<.l: "Dear Sir : '!'he 1 7 j 7

June 2, 1982 Tape No . 816 so - 2 MIL (;1\LL/\N: Lo\.,ll (;CHIIlC i I ol Ch.tfJl' I /\rrn woulcl aqnin like to brinq a matter or qrent concern to your attention and request your assistance . Prior to the last by­ election in the district or Bellevue you met with council and one of the things discussed at that meeting was the condition of the bridge over Western Cove Brook here at Chapel Arm. At that time you informed council that you would look into this problem and see if you co uld help alle viate the situation ." Now the town clerk goes on , Mr .

Speaker, to say : "As t"as evident from your visit here the present structure is an eyesore , number one; ilnd has not been maintained properly over the past few years, nnmher two; it is too narrow for two vehicles to cross and pass saf ely , ~imultnn~ously, numh"r three; and of even qreater concern js the •J 7 j 8

June 2,1982 Tape No. 817 ah-1 MR. CALLAN: safety of the people using the bridge. It is used daily by a number of school buses and council has had numerous complaints from parents who fear for the safety of their children having tJ cross this bridge. So, I think, Mr. Speaker, that is probably enough to read from that excerpt from that letter. Now,then ,a reply to that letter from the town council last Fall, a reply was received on behalf of the Premier from the Minister oF Transportation (Mr.

Dawe) and tht~ reply cumc: on the 5th of Octob<..! r, tw<..!n Ly days later, and t:Je Minister or 'I'ransportution (Mr.Dawe) said to the town o::l erk, "1 rc' fer to your 1 ettcr of the 15th of September 1981 to the attention of the Premier," and he says this, the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Dawe) says, "My department ~as been aware for quite some time that the structure in question is in a deteriorated condition," says the minister, and secondly. he says, "and neP.r<s to be replaced." That was last Fall, last October. So it is in a deteriorated condition and needs to be replaced.

And that has been ongoing, that has been known by the rrinister's department for quite some time. Obviously thut .Ls the 1-e<Json why a desiqn for this particular bridge, for a new briclqe to replwcc the old one has heen completed for somP time. "Unfortunately," the minister says, "there are a considerable number of bridges of similar vintage," and so on, "and my department is priorizing all the bridges across the Province," and so on. Now, Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Transportation (Mr.Dawe) udmittcd last ~all that th~ bridge was in a deteriorated condition and needed to be replaced.

Now,thcn.that wac; Jasl 1"<~11. On 1\f>i-il 2BLh of this year l wrote the l'rcmicr about this bridge again, 1 7 3 ~~

June 2,1982 MR . CALLI\N: Tape No . 817 ah-2 Co llowing the ge neral election . I wrote the Premier nnd r reminded the Premier , of course Tll.1111 : vo111 ! - ' •·emindcc.l the Premier Lh<lt - one minute left­ r rcnlinded the Prcmic•r in 1his Jc-tt0.r of 1\pdl 28 th of this year that the people \Y'ho live across the bridge in \'/estern Cove , th ey had voted for the PC candidate and the PC party , th ey had voted three to one to try and get thi s IJrjcJqc repl<lced so the l'remJr•r could not use politics to keep it from them . 1740

.June 2, lqR2 'l',lpc: No. HlR M,l -1 N.R. W. CALLAN: But the Premier in his reply li.:Jys, '1\n inspection nf this bridge was cat:ri<:!d t,)Ut on Monday, May 10th ' -that is the day Lhat thu i.nf<tlllous SfJ<!c:c.:h fn>rto lh~ 'l'l1ron•• w •. t!< te.Jtl h<'l't• - 'An inspection ·~:as carried out bv my officials or officials of the department. That inspec1:ion determined that the structure is quite safe.' The minister last ral.l <1dntittecl that it was in il clcteri<)ratec'l r.onc'i Hnn and needed to '"' rooli'IC':C('!, und thr Premier this ~Prinq savs, tnat it is q\litc sute. So, Mr.

Speaker, that is all thC! t1me r hove Jeft. T hOf'l" ,,s o resull of the meetin~r that I held to~ith the Chilpcl 1\rm 'l'm.,rn Council lost week, at which time they decided to affix their siynatures to this petition und asked me to present it: ln the !louse. I hope as a result of that thill the mini stcr will be .Jhlc to say \.,rhen he stands ~hat fundinq has been alloc<1ted for this bridrre this yo,1r, :Jnrl thnt th<" i>ri clfJf' wi 11 be cnnst:ntctccl t.his year. Mr. Speaker, r ask tnat this petition be placed on the t:ablc of the l!ouse and transported to the department to '"hich ~ t relalc•s. MR. R.

DAtvE:: ~~~.:. !?:r>~~~~~ _(_RU?S~).]) _: 'l'.ron::;porlil t ion. MR. DAt·IB: Mr. Speakc~r. The hnn. the Minister of Mr. Spe.:~kcr I cw<·r the fl.JSt year <H so slncL' bc<:,llfll' Minislc·r c•l' 'l'r<~nsp·~~ lOlL i•m-I t"<•pn~l'><'t11 .1 district,of course ,as e-veryone is prniJo~i>ly ,,~~.tt•c that very prevalent to bridge ~ollnpse From time to time forth~ same reasons as t.1e hon. rnembe r indicated 1 •• .,ere the reasons why tne britlrye in Lh<•t pilrticulM' Ill"<•.• w<o~!'> oiil:~pid.tlc•u or dctc·•·iot·<~tinq and perhaps needs to be replaced. 'l'herc arc a number of such bridges.

An asse:;smcn t toJas done which shm,;s that there a t·e quite a number. It sh0\15 that thf' capital costs necessary to '17 ~ I

June 2, 1982 1'np<' Nn . 81 8 M.T - 2 MIL H . 11/\\'11':: lt'J>I.wo• IIH' b1 id<Jt!S Ll1.1l ..trc..• detC'riorntinq and nC'cci to b<' rep! <Iced nr<' considerable ,and it is with this in mind that government this year has allocated a significantly grea ter amount of Cunding for bridge replacement and repair in the Province , and I am oleased that it is ha9penin g. There is a differe nc e, Mr.

Speaker , in the bridqe deteriorating and needing to be replaced than the bridge actually being sa fe , that is the be~rinq loan of the bridge being safe and adequate to carry the vehicles and the type of traffic that is travcrsinq over it . Depat·tment officials arc continually doing safety checks on the bridqcs to see if they can ,in fact ,carry the loau that thcv are intended to do . If it is nnr r·Jl,,l, t-hc•y tlo a f'l'rC"ss o~Sf'ssrnC"nt nn the 1 7 4 I

June 2, 1982 Tape SlY PK - l HR. DANE : brid9e, and the necessary weight reductions a~e posted properly and supervised so that if there is that nece ssity to lower the wel<rht. goi nq over the bridge then that is done. I am pleas..:!d, t'lr . Speaker , th.Jt •rovernmcnt hilS S(.'On riL, v.nd t.hc dcpaa:-(.munt h;JS seen fit to allocate additional funding to.,.Jar<ls th(J n~construction and the repair of bridges in the Province and 1 hope this will continue . ~R . NEARY: Mr . Speaker . NR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. Leader or the Opposi t:ion.

MIL NE/\HY: I woulu like to SUJJpOrt the petition so ;July prPscml:c-d hy Illy <:<> llc.J•IIIC', 1 lw rnt•mhc1 · I'Clr Bell evue (Mr . Callan) and I wunt to conqrntulate the member , r~r . !;p<.:.~kl.:r , lor LIH~ exc:<· tl, .. .t job lll<ll llt: is doillq lnr h is constituents . Yesterd.Jy my hon. friend was asked to leave the House because he had very stronu views anci stronq feelings i.n connection w)th another matter in his district . And, r think, Mr . Speaker, wa Dll have to admire' ancJ rospcct the hon . qcnt-lt~mun r01- ~I:HHlinq up - MR .

WARREN : ~ - NEARY : constituents the -way that lw i :: . lie stood up to thc:m . ~nd fiyhting for hjs . \l'R. !1.li..RSi1ALL : Just like we aJmirc (inauuiahle) . MR . NEA.~Y : T h~q your pardon? MR . MARSHALT .· Just 1 ike 1-JC W()uld admi r:e 1\narchy nut! 1-'asc: ism . MR . NEARY : MR . C.l\LLAN : Cr osbie does it and is a hero. 1-lR . NEARY: ~1H • Cl\ 1.. LfiN : , I Oh , ~lr . -Your coll eague John Yes, their idol . '1'111 • h<>ll . ,Johu.

June 2, 1982 'I'apc No . 819 PK-2 MR . NEARY : So , Mr . Speaker , I think llw hn11 . 'l<'lll l•'rn.H1 .\q,li 11 I <~olo!y - ~~~ (Inaudible) John did it . MR . Nl·:/\RV : Lite hnu . •w ntlcm .ln WJnin today has shown beyond any shadow of doubt - ~1H. W/\Jll(Jo:N : - ·--· - 'l'h.Jt is riqhL . MR . Nl•:/\HY : - that hi.s numl>cr on e priority is the interest of his constituents - SOME HON . MEHBERS : He<!r , hear ! MR . NEARY : - and the sa fe ty of tho people who drive over that bridqe . MR . 1-//\RRf:N : Ri~ht on! Right on ! MR . Nl!!ARY : Now, r-tr .

Speaker, r was rather dis<~ppointed with the input by the Mi nister of Transportation (Mr . Oawe) . The hon . gentleman got up and rambled on about l.J . d • j• lilllu ·td lt .t" lll •f d f,,, .. ll, ·d lll•d' IIUJdiiPJ IJd :i ~' t~Hl f.,l I~ t l t •• , f I •• , ' i I •• t '·" I • ' f ,. I •Hit t d •: . I• t I,, , It· H 1• itl j '" ,, , 1: I not address himself to the pe titio n, Mr . Speaker . The hon . <Jen tlcman did not · sny first or lnst if he sloocl jn his place I o suppor.t tho pt-t · it ion or if h<' \~ns just qcttlnq up to lfilin no111C! I iLL iu pol it i.c:.a l llro w uic~ pclinL~; . t1R .

I-7ARREN : By the way , there is a new bridge going in in Grand Bank . MR . NEARY : Mr . Spea ker, the fact of the matter is that this bddgc in \'/estern Cove Brook needs to be replaced . MR . Wl\RREN : l-loreso than the one in Grand Bank . MR . NEARY : --- --- It is not only deteriorated iL is i.n - MR . 1-l/\RREN : I drove over it . 'I 7 4 II

June 2, 1982 Ta~ SH PK - 3 MR. NEARY: Mr .Speakcr, the bridge is a safety hazard. HR. WARREN : Political patronage, yes . t-11<. NEARY : The minister himself confirmed that the bridge is unsafe and should be replaced . ~ - MEl-lnER: No, hu <lid not. . MR. NE/\RY: Well that is what I understood from my hon. colleac;ue ,in the letLcr that my hon. collcaquc read. MR. I~ARREN : That is riqht. 1-lR. NEi\RY: Let me sec the letter. MR. CALLAN : It is too narrow. ~-D~_i:~~-: TL is d<~terinratinq ;1ncJ it needs to be replaced . MR. NEARY: Deteriorating and it needs to be replaced . MR . CALLAN: Yes. MR . NEARY: Well, Mr .

Speaker, if a bridge is deterioratinq and needs to be rP.olaced,then the only thing thac I can think about a bridctP. like that, 1 would be very cilreful, 1 7 ~ s

June 2, 1982 Tape No. 820 NM - 1 MR. NEARY: I would be very reluctant to go over it. If the minjster confirms that it is deterioratiJlct and needs to be replaced then, Mr. Speukcr, if the hon. gentleman does not have the courage to say it I will say it 1 That obviously the bridge is unsafe. MR. WARREN: Yes. Right on. MR. NEARY: And pretty soon somebody is going t.o be hurt or killed on that bridge. MR. WARREN: But he said it in a letter sure. He said it in a letter. MR. NEARY: And, Mr. Speaker, I hope that the hon. gentleman will remember that the matter was raised by my colleague in this hon.

House ,and I hope that we do not have to wait for a serious accident on that bridge before the hon. gentleman will take action to have it replaced. The hon. Premier says no, in his examination of the - MR. CALLAN: My letter to the Premier, look. MR. NEARY: The hon. the Premier says no, that his examination of the bridge shows that it is all right. But I would be more inclined,after what we heard yesterday, after what we have been hearing since the election, Mr. Speaker, I would be more inclined to believe the Minister of Transportation (Mr.

Dawe) than I would to take the word of the Premier for the condition of that bridge. Mr. Speaker, let us see what my hon. colleague, the member for Bellevue (Mr. Callan) said when he wrote the Premier on April 28th., he says, "Dear l'rt~llli•·r l'•·•·krord, I wr ito· .11 I ilin I irrr•· C:<.•tr<·•·r rlinq I h•· condition of the bridge at Chapel Arm, Trinity Bay. The bridge in question must be used by all the residents of the ·1 7 ~ 5

June 2, 1982 TapcNo. 820 NM- 2 MR. NEARY: area of Chapel Arm, commonly referred to as Western Cove. The bridge has been deemed unsafe for heavy loads for several years." MR. CAL~~N : Right. MR. MARSHALL : letter are you? MR. NEARY: You are going to table that Pardon? Yes. Sure . Sure, Mr . speaker, 'de have no hesitation in tablJ ng anything \"e quote from . It is only the hon. gentlemen on the other side that ref-.Ise to table documents when they quote from them. MR. WARREN: Right on! Right on! MR. NEARY : No, Mr . Spc~kcr, I support the petit:lon and I reqrec very much that ~1 hen the hon.

Minister of ~ransportation (Mr. Dawe) [elt compelled to rise in his p:ace to speak on this petition that he did not tell the hon. gentleman, and now I will ask him, 'dould he give us a list of the bridqes that are goinq to be repaired and replaced this year? If the hon . gentleman was goi ng to speak l~ support of the petition he should have addres sed himsol r to the pc U t ion and h.: should huvu .ons\o/erc<.l my collea gue man fashion, straiqhtfo~o/ard, yes or no, is that br itlyc on the I J st Lo be IC!->ol i t·cd or tt•pl<u;ud Lhis y,•.tr? request and again - MR . MARSHALL: A.l'i HON. MEMBER : MR .

CALLAN: it so why noc . ~tr . Speaker, that is a reasonable You are goiny to table th~t letter? Yes. r·:v<'rynne in Chupcl Arm hM; t;:ot ·1 7 4 7

June 2, 1982 ·rape No . 820 NM - 3 MR . ~Y: _ - T \-Jhol ehcartcdl y support the prayer of the petition, Mr . Speaker, and I urge my colleague , Lhe IOt!tllul'r for He .I I <~vue ( l>lr. (;,111 illl). tc> keep UP Lhc ClOOd I"Ork . MR. HARSIIALL : Mr. Speaker, on a poi nt of order . The hon . gentleman has referred to a letter and he said he was going to table it . but he has not yet and we would like to see the lett er tabled , in accordance with the rules . MR . SPEAKER (Russell) : It being Private Members ' Day we shall carry on with motion number five . The hon . member for Stephenville . SOME HON . MEMBER : Hear hear ~ ·1 7 ~ A

June 2, 1982 Tape No. 821 SD - 1 MR. STAGG: Mr. Speaker, thank you very much. This is a motion that refers to matters that have been previously very vigorously debated in the House. It is a motion concerning the offshore situation and I wilJ read the recitals and the proposed resolution into the record: WIIEREhS the provincial government entered into offshore negotiations with the federal government on the understanding that the ownership issue had been put aside; AND WJIEREhS the federal government requested and obtained an expansion of the SIU labour relations court case into the area of offshore ownership during the period of the negotiations; AND

WHEREAS the provincial government subsequently referred the offshore ownership issue to the Newfoundland Supreme Court; BE IT THEREFORE R3SOLVED that this hon. House support the position of the Newfoundland Government in that it is willing to reopen negotiations on the offshore issue with the federal government as soo~ as the federal government agrees to set aside the ownership issue for the duration of the negotiations and permanently sjould an agreement be reached. Now, Mr.

Speaker, of course we have very vigorously and at some length debated a similar resolution before the House approximately two weeks ago, when the federal government unilaterally referred a partial question concerni~g the Hibernia oil field to the Supreme Court of Canada. And to some extent arguments that can be made today will be similar to arguments made previously. However,. that is not to derogate in any way from the importance o~ this argument. Now, Mr. Speaker, I am goinq to generally develop my talk on three main areas.

I am going to review the Clark/Peckford position ln l979,and then I am goincj to review the Peckford/Trudeau position in Muy of 1981. 1 am <JOinq Lo <JCllcr,l11 y r·()v i cw our propu,:iil 1 7 4 :-i

June 2, 1982 Tape No . 821 MR . STAGG : on the offshore, the proposal that was made in ,January of this year , and hopefully, if I have time , to qcncrally review where we are at the present time . I do not knO\., iC I will have adequate tim .e, it is a twenty minute period. believe, f.lr . Speaker - is that correct? MR . SPEAKER (Russell) : Yes . so - 2 MR . STAGG : Well, Mr.

Speaker, in September of 1979, this is where Newfoundland and Ottawa stood: You \.,.ill recall that this \vas during the time when Prime Minister Clark was Prime Minister of Canada and , of cour se, the present Premier \lfas the then Premier . And the basic principle thot was arrived at between the two parties is enunciated in an exchange of correspondence in September of that year ,and I \.,.ill refer to the main item in that correspondence which \.,a s an unanimous agreement between the two parties,that of the basic principles which would concern offshore mineral resources .

The main one is as follows : 'The Province of Newfoundland should own the mineral resources of the continental margin off its coast insof ar as Canada is entitled to exercise sovereign rights over these resources in accordance with international law . 175n

June 2,1982 Tape No. 822 ah-1 MR. STAGG: Such ownership should be,to the extent possible,of the same nature as if these resources were located within the boundaries of the Province. The legislative jurisdiction of the Province should, to the extent possible, be the same as for these resources within the boundaries of the Province. And historically, Mr.

Speaker, of course what happened was in the !louse of Commons in December of 1979 the government was defeated and there was a subsequent election and the Trudeau government was elected in February of 1980 and then came the Peckford/ Trudeau position \.,hich was enunciated in a letter by the i'tl!lllil!r to i'r.itllt!

Minjstl!t- 'l'rudCilU on M<iy I'J,I')!ll. /\till lhL• Premier at that time was responding to the position put forward by Prime Minister Trudeau at a Libera] fund raising dinner as Memorial Universit~ where he made st~t~ments concerning the federal government's very amenable and conciliatory attitude on the offshore, and there was an apparent departure from the previous inflexible attitude.

And the Premier said in his letter of May 19th, 1981, "Your remarks have created the impressjon in the Province th<:~t you h<:~vc chanqed your prc_,vious posit-ion wi.th t:Ct)<Hd to Newfoundland's right of ownership of offshore minerals. Your comments have been interpreted to mean that a new federal proposal now exists with regard to the fundamental issues of revenue sharing and resource management. As you know,our position is that the resource should be treated as if it were located on land in respect to revenue sharing and resource management.

I have responded publicly to your comments and expressed my willingness to commence Tit!<JOtiiltions Lc>wards ,\ polili(·dl ~;c•lLI<'IIll'nl or Lhc ofi~;IJ!ln' question. However to thj s t imc no res ponS<) hus been forthcoming. The purpose of this Jetter therefore is to 1 7 51

_1 June 2, L982 •rape No . 822 ah -2 M~ . S'I'~GC : rorn1.11 ii\c' n response to the offer which it is undcrstoo<'l you have made . In light of your expression or willingness to enter into negotiations, I would assl~e that your position with respect to the SIU case now before the federal court will be altered to involve only the labour relations issue· . May 19, 1981, ,.lpflt'ch:illl~tlely OIH' Y•'"' <HI• ,Lh< ·tl \v.ts Lhc pnsiLin n put in 1vritinq, put fon.,ard by tho r>remicr , tabled in the House shortly aften1ards· rt was tabled in the House on May 21 ,1981. ~nd as we all know, negotiations subsequently commenced in approximately September 'I 7 5!

June 2, 1982 Tape 823 EC - 1 MR. STAGG: and October of 1981. '·Hcl obviously, from the Province's position, these negotiations corrunenced on the basis that the understanding which was implicit in the letter of the Premier of May 19th, there was an understanding that these were the ground rules that were being followed. And there is a well-known axiom with regard to negotiations, Mr.

Speaker, that if you fail to register dissent in a matter,and that dissent would be critical to the carryinq on of negotiations, it is generally assumed among people who are honourable in their dealings with one another that 'silence is acquiesence'.

In other words, if you were asked a question which is integral to the resolution or negotiations on any matter and you demur to reply or you allow a situation to exist or events to unfold such that the other party would agrcL~ or would be of the understanding that you had accepted their pre­ conditions then, of course, as honourable people, you would be governed by the principle of 'silence is acquiesence'. And that, of course, is the reason that we unde::ctook these necrotiations back in the Pall of 1981. And the position, of course, of the Newfoundland c;ovcrnmcn t was <tnd s tl l.

J is th<t t the offshore ownership question should be set aside during the period of ne9otiations and that it would be permanently set asiuc if and when an aqrcement were reached. SOME HON. ME~BERS: Oh, oh~ MR. STAGGE: Now, Mr. Speaker, hon. members opposite obviously h<tvc very li tll c intcrc•s L in the import of the mdtters that w0 are discussing here today and I would like to invoke the rule of the House that an hon. member, when speakinq, be heard in silence. 1 7 5 ·:i

June 2, 1982 Tape 823 EC - 2 MR. STJ\GG: If the hon. member opposite, the hon. the Opposition !~usc Leader, does not wish to hear what I have to say, then, of course, he 'l 7 ~.,

June 2, 1982 MR. STAGG: he does best. MR. HODDER: of the House. MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) MR. STAGG: Tape No. 824 NM - 1 can leave the Chamber and do whatever (inauaiule) House and nobody Order, please~ Now, Mr.

Speaker, I have reviewed the Clark- Peckford position, which, of course, is the best position that ~ewfoundland has ever enjoyed with regard to the offshore question, and let me just say in support of that position that if that had been resolved and if the incoming government in February of 1980 had gone on that assumption, we would not have in this Province today the critical un­ employment situation that we do have.

You will recall that Alberta and the West during the stormy seventies when the economies of the whole world and the rest of Canada were being shaken, that Alberta had a very strong position because of their resource development. Well, Mr. Speaker, let me tell you that if that position, the Clark - Pcckford position, which was enunciated in 1979 had been followed throuqh with, that Newfoundland would be a hub of activity today. It would be very difficult to have people in the galleries today, Mr.

Speaker, it would be difficult to find anybody on the street who was idle,because Newfoundland would be humming, thousands of people would be workino who are now not working because of the callous disregard for Newfoundland's position which was embodied in the Trudeau position, which was taken after the election of 1980. However, being trusting people <Jncl want.inq lo clo best, .1nd beinq lmplore(] ily <lll dnd sundry to get into negotiations, sit down at the negotiating table, dr. wh;ll you """· ]H~O[dt• 1 jk_,. I iJ,.

Voll'illll:; IH>Oird~; or II oldt· ollld chambers of commerce and individuu.l businessmen put pressure on the government to get out there, qct neqotiatinq, you cannot ., 7 5 ,;;

""' June 2, 1982 Tape No . 824 N.M - 2 MR . STAGG: resolve this issue unless you are talking to one another, then the government, still not havinq received a reply to the 11av 1 9th . 1 1981 letter, receiving only silence in reply , nevertheless took a calculated risk that the federal government, Mr . Lalonde and Mr. Trudeau,were men of honour, and that they would carry through with what appeared to be their stated intention, then v1e entered into the negotations . Now 1 Mr . Speaker, \-:bat happened? Hl a. d Jo , q •l·olll i!• l 11 1l lo I .;. f.lto l J ., I l ot fi J IJ o'dt.• .' 'l 7 ~6

,June 2, 1982 Tape No. 825 MJ - l MR. F. STAGG : '!'he STU case is now,lo some rxtcnt.r>l<l history,but il is very interesting to review this for the sake of putting into perspective the kind of problems that we have in this Pr.·ovince. the kind of problems thclt ar~ now bcin4 epitomized by the difficulties that we are experiencing in St. Anthony nnd places like that. But one of the muin problems that we hvve with the federal government is apparently you cannot trust their 1-lorcl. Because this Province entered into negotiations on the basis that the SIU case would be set aside.

So what happens early this year? in February of this year, the federul crovernment appears before the federal court of Canada and makes and argument of wanting to expand the S1U case to encompass the whole question of who owns the offshorr.

Well this,of course, is completely in rlisrr''J·•rrl .Jr:cl <~pposi~c' tn lht• ~;pi1·i1· wilh which lh<· l'lnvirll'<' of Newfoundland entered these ne9otiations, looking for a ;,pc•l'rly ilnrl honnllodhlP n•:;r>iul i<~ll .,,- lhc• pi~>hlr·lll. fl j11:;l <lid not happen.And when.of course, the fP.deral government appeared in court in Ottawa with their barrage of la•·rvers, \olith, I think twenty-one pounds of writV•n mnlcr-i<ll- that was thc•ir- c:usory brief, as it was called by them· They haJ twenty-one pounds of material before the court uuttinrr l:hei.r posi ti.on with regard to the offshore hcforc the court, and sugqestiny that his labour relations case could not be resolved unless the ownc~r-ship question was resoJ.vecl,- 'rhat oul- Newfound I ancJ Government and our caucus and, I gu8ss ,rcally, the Newfoundland people, were asked to make a dcci[;ion, what coultl and shoul<l WC' do?

And,of course.when you are confronted with this type of sjtuation rli'C'i~>ion!; h-1vc· '" IH• 111.1tl<'. '1'111' ,J,.,.j,;i<>ll ll1-11 W.J,; 111.1ol•· W-1!: In refer the question of ownership to our own Ncwfounclland Court of Appeal,and this was done in Pebruary of this year. And subsequently, in a historic:ill election in this Province, the people• ., 7 J 7

Ju.nc 2 , 1982 '1'apc fllo . 825 MJ- 2 MR . f:'. STAGG: of the Province endorsed the Province ' s posH ion \oJhich ha<.l been takc~ n a nd cmunciated by th<:' Premier on T"rbn tary J 2th , T bel ieve i.t w.:ts, this ye-ar. lvhen '"e a.nnounceu that we were goinq to take this case to the Suprc111c ClliJrt of Nc.wfoun dla nd. \lie have heard subsequently, of course, Mr . Speaker , that the federa l government has referred this mat ter unil .:Jtcrn l l y i·o th0 Su">r·emc Co \trt of Can:Hia,a nd Wf! hcil rd here in the House today the responses that 1.-e have received from two of the T.iberal M. P .' " · Mt:'.

George Baker , the M. P . for Gander - Twillingate , made ~ relatively equ ivocal reply , but his reply v1a.s not totnJJy netrative . The other man, ,.,.ho once sat in t his House of 1\ssembly , the membe.r for Burin - St . George ' s, Mr . Simmons , has qotten a Fair amount ·1 7 S H ~ ..

June 2, 1982 Tape 826 EC - 1 MR. STAGG: of publicity across the Province as he parades himself around and, I guess, tries to ingratiate himself with Mr. Lalonde and Mr. Trudeau by denouncing his own people and denouncing the unanimous resolution of this government. As a matter of fact, I think I might quote somet~ing from his telex to the Premier. MR. DAWE: without his leash. MR. STAGG: Sometimes he comes down Sometimes he comes down without his leash, the Minister of Transportation says. I have not seen him without his leash, but I suppose there are times when he does come without it.

This is reading partially from the telegram in which the member for Burin - St. George's (Mr. Simmons) responded to the unanimous resolution that was put forward by this House. He said, "Do you ask that I condemn the action of the federal government in referring the matter to the Supreme Court, to condemn an initiative which will serve to resolve the question of offshore jurisdiction as soon as possible '! And, secondly, how can you ask me to condemn the self­ same action which your administration took last February?" _l\nd so on and so on. The member for Burin ,- St. George's, Mr.

Speaker, is going to face that issue fair and square in 1984 or thereabouts and he is not going to be allowed off the hook with it. And while he has gotten some cheap publicity on the issue, very cheap publicity, the same man who jumped up and down and had the floor for five minutes on a vote when John Crosbie was bciny th cown out o [ the I louse of Commons for accusing the Minister of .Tustice (Mr. Chretien) 175~

_Ji. June 2, 1982 Tape 826 EC - 2 MH . STAGG: of lying to the Llouse - ~nd I think it has been borne out that John Chretien did indeed lie to the House of Commo ns - that man is going to face the issue . The member for Humber - Port au Port - St . narbe , Mr . Tobin, has been a little more cl ever on the issue . He has been sent a telegram by the Premier , he has been se nt a telegram by the Minister of t::ducation (Ms Verge) , asking .for his position .

Well , he just sat back and said nothing hoping th.Jt Lhc cloud will ~o over him and he will not hAve to face t.hc issu~ . nut it is not qoinq to escape .Jny or them , Mr. Spcolkcr . 'l'hc d.:ty oi resolution is coming and , as I said before , the election campaign federally is beginning . Yes , I make no complaint about it , make no backdoors about it, it is 17 Gfl

June 2, 1982 Tape 827 PK - 1 MR. STAGG: startinq. One of the main ways that we will resolve this issue, we will deal with the sinister attitude of the federal government with regard to this Province .is we will defeat Llwrn ol t tlw polls. J t i~ llUi Lc simple. Sorn~C! !J~opl~ huvc saiu to me, you should not say that. You should not tip your hand , that you are out to defeat them. Well , I tell all and sundry that I will be campaigning very vigorously,and I am sure that all members here will be campaigning very vigorously, to return seven or eight P.C.

M.Ps to Ottawa in 1984 or thereabout,whenever they get the initiative - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. STAGG: - whenever they get the guts to go to the polls and that is it. I make no bones about it, that is where I stand. Now, Mr. Speaker, we want offshore, we wanL these negotiations to rcc.:ommencl!. We want them to recommence.

I am sure that if these five Liberal members of the House of Commons were to recant, if they were to go back and say 'Look, the unanimous resolution of our colleagues, our eight colleagues in the House o£ Assembly' - a~d obviously the eight Liberals in the House of Assembly are to be commended for the initiative that they took. I have stood many, many times - I am one of the more partisan members of the House· MR. TULK: (Inaudible). MR. STAGG: Jl is something that r have cultivated over the years.

I have never been called impartial when it comes to dealinq with members of the Opposibon, but in this regard I have commended them and I do commend them. Ahd I would suggest, Mr. Speaker, if they arc able to get through to their federal colleagues that it is time for them to get back 1 7 6 1

June 2, ~982 Tape 827 PK - 2 MR . STAGG: to the negotiating table. to a~ ree that the very reasonabl e position put for ward on January 25, 1982, cnlled a proposal for settl ement - I commend it to t:he rcad:i .nq or every Newfoundlander. T guess I do not have time to qet into the details on it, some of the things, but I will just deal with a couple of the highlights ,if I can find my notes her e, Mr . Speaker . I suppose you cannot find Llt ~·tn wlt 1·n- hv tc· otrv :;utttl: ol t;hv lti<JhliCJhl !: in llt,ll ot•trc!t~m/:111: 17o ?

June 2, 1982 Tape No. 828 NM - l MR. STAGG: I Tloth governments would set aside their ownership claims and become co-owners of the resource'. This greedy Newfoundland Government agrees that there would be joint tenancy in the offshore, it is like a marriage. In 1979 we amended the Matrimonial Property Act so that there was ioint tenancy with reqard to pror~rty owned by a husband and wife. Well this is like a marriage, we arc proposing a marriage between the federal and provincial governments. MR. 'rULK: What about if they divorce? MR.

STAGG: No, we will outlaw divorces, because it will be put in the constitution that there can be no divorce with regard to that particular issue. 'Both governments wou.lc..l sel us ide Llwi r ownC.!rship claims unc..l become co-owners of the resource~ SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) MR. STAGG: Oh, oh~ Order, please: Hon. members opposite are caterwauling and they are not giving me a chance to finish, Mr. Speaker. They are supposedly the people who endorse this position. I do not know if they want their federal colleagues to forget it or not. 'Both governments would be equal under our proposal.

Both governments would receive their share of revenues directly from a joint agency which would have a neutral chairman.' ~~R. TULK: MR. STAGG: - vote for this one. ~rrangement could only be changed with the consent of both governments', and not like what happened in Australia,where the states there, which are similar to our provinces, thought they had an agreement and when the federal government there thought it was propitious, or when they had friends on the bench or whatever, they referred 1 7 b -i

June 2, 1982 Tape No. 828 NM - 2 MR. STAGG: it to the Supreme Court of Australia and it was - ·found ~o be in the federal domain and they tor.e up the aqreement. Jtnd what would be the major economic benefits package of this agreement? that hon. members opposite never read during the election, by the way I must say,I have commended them on supporting us on the resolution but they will certainly reap what they sow when they did not read the proposal. They found out about it a month and a half later, obviously the election passed them by.

The major economic benefits package::· 'rhercwould be programmes to expand and maximizE' involvement of local labour and business in offshore activitie!'l: Well that is so~ething, Mr. Speaker. Well that is something, Mr. Speaker. Employment and local labour and business, we get an awful lot of people putting pressure on this government, putting pressure on the Premier, putting pressure on all of us to get an agreement and get it going. Well, there is where these oeople- t~is is where the business community of Newfoundland should be putting their emphasis.

They should not be putting it to us or to the Opposition who unanimously agree that what the federal government has done is reprehensible, thev should be reading the report, reading the proposal in the first place -and I suggest an awful lot of people in the Province who think they know what they are talking about actually do not know what they are talking about,because they have us painted, they have the provincial government painted as a group of people who are uncompromising and stubborn. Well, Mr. Speaker, it does not stand up.

When we say both governments would be equal, both governments would set their ownership claims aside and become co-owners of the resource, it would~in effect,be a marriage. 1 7 D Lf

June 2, 1982 Tape No. 828 NM - 3 MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : Order, please~ I must inform the hon. member that his time has expired. MR. STAGG: Well, Mr. Speaker - MR. BU'f''l': By leave. By leave. 'I'<. NI·:7\T{Y : Mr. Speaker. 1 7 6 .s

June 2, 1982 MR. SPE~KER(~ylward) Opposition. Tape No. 829 SD - l The hon. the Leader of the MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, first of all, let me say that to be consistent with the position of this side of the House on this issue, private member's motion. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. NEARY: we are going to support the Hear, hear. Let me repeat, Mr. Speaker, again the three important issues that we support, that we as Liberals support.

We support a power corridor across the Province of Quebec,and we thank the Government of Canada for having the couraqc to fly in t.hc Face of stiff opposition from the Tories, nationally, and from Quebec,and put this piece of leqislation through the House. And I am told by Mr. Chretien , during his visit to Newfoundland recently, that the Government of Canada intend to stick by their guns-So the hon. gentleman could have stayed home from Ottawa, he could have stayed home, He did not have to appear before any committee,because Mr.

Chretien said that the Government of Canada-told me and my colleagues - intend to stick by that corridor, that legislation that will give Newfoundland a corridor across Quebec ,that will stay. And we support the reopening of the power contract on the Upper Churchill. Rut, Mr. Speaker, let me say this, we support the reopening of that contract on the Upper Churchill but we condemn, strongly condemn, the Opposition of the day, the PC Opposition of the day, for not fighting tooth and nail against that legislation. MR. TULK: Who was that? MR. NEARY: We condemn the Opposition of that time, Mr.

Speaker~ There was a PC Opposition in the House and they did not object to that BRINCO bill. They could haver They could have voted against it~ ~hey did not vote against it, Mr. Speaker, and they are to be condemned forever -1 7 b fi

June 2, 1982 ·rape No . 829 so - 2 MR . NEARY: by the people of this Province for their negligence, for their being so l.Jx in carryinq out their duties and their responsibilities. Mr. Speaker, it is up co the Opposition to oppose and the Opposition of that day , the PC Opposition, did not oppose , they sold Newfoundland down the river, they did not do their job. The PC Opposition or that day did not do their job, ~k.

Speaker, they sold Newfoundland out to Quebec. •rhe PC Opposition of that day did not raise a finger in objection to the BRINCO bill, \vhich eventually led to a contract between this Province and Quebec Hydro. .II!R . TULK: MR . STAGG : l~ho were the members? T t i ~~ not 1 oq i ca 1 . MR . NEARY: It is logical, Mr . Speaker, it is just as good as the logic that we hear from the mad hatter administration . It is just as sensible as the logic we just heard frorr. the hon . gentleman \vbo spoke in supporc of his private member's resolution.

There was an awful phony ring to "''hat the hon . qentleman had to say, a phony riny. Now T am not sayin•; tililt th<~ hon . qcnt1cm<.ln is phony, but there was a phony ring to his words of support . And, Mr . Speaker, let that yo ·1 7 G 7

June 2,1982 Tv.pc No. 830 ah-1 MR. NEARY: on the record,that the Tory opposition, the PC opposition in this House MR. TULK: Did they sec the power contract? MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, they did not even ask to see it, and that is why I am condemning the opposition. MR. MARSHALL: A point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) The hon. President of the council. MR. MARSHALL: The hon. gentleman is making points that do not make sense. That he can do. That he does all the time, but he is not allowed to make points that are irrelevant. The issue that is before Your Honour today is the motion that the hon.

House supports 111" l'":;j 1 i"" •d' ''"' r: .. v• -!1 01111~111 .. ,- Newfnnnrllnnd in that II I I I I 11 I '' ,, I I I ,I I /1· 1, Ill II li I It relates to the of[shore case. 1 direct your Honour to Stv.ndinq Order 51 (

b) which says, "Mr. Speaker or the Chairman,after having called to the attention of the House, or of the Committee, to the conduct of a member who persists j n ir rc leva nco or nectllcss rcpet i tion, may direct him to discontinue." Now, I rise on this point of order, Mr. Speaker, because the hon. gentleman is beinq irrelevant in the matter. This is a very important issue brought forth very seriously by the member for Stephenville (Mr. Stagg).

If the hon. members of the Oppositjon do not chose to debate it I know that there are people on this side of the House who are quite prepcred to - PREMIER PECKFORD: Whv.t a way to waste the time of - MR. MARSHALL : -debate it. The hon. gentleman is talking about transmission corridors and what have you, and his impression of them and , you know, and as silly and puerile as that is I will not net into it, but he is being - ·1 7 G H

June 2,1982 MR.HODDER : to waste? !-1R . ~lARSHALL : the: House . MR.HODDi':R: SOHE HON . M£MIIERS : ~IR.SPF.i\KE;{ (Ayl,y-ard) : Tape No. 810 ah-2 Jlow much more time are you <;oinr: - irrelevant with an issue before Sit <!own nnd shut-up . llc<~r, hear! To ~h~t point of order . 1 wish co remind the hon. Leader of ~he Opposition of the resolution . i\s I read it it de<Jls with the offshoru <~nd the otfshore negotiations and 1 \olOUld wish to remind t:hc l.cadcr of the r·ulc relcv<Xncc. NR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker , r wi) I dea I \oJi th tho little bit of history thnt t was - MR. TULK: Backg mund . MR.NEARY : Yes .

The little bit of background and the little bit of history, I will deal with that late~, Mr. Speaker . And the third ~ssuc that we support not necessari ly support the government now, Mr. Speaker, that we support ,an d there is a difference, is that N~wrouncllund owns the <>ffshurc . We h.rv< .' •:uppnrlt~d th;rt principle ani! ~o;c continue to do so, Mr. 5peakct· . 1\nd hon . UC'ntlemen Ciln brinq in all lhc.' rcs<llUtions thC'y Hant in this House . '~'hey can recycle the resolutions, they can re\oiOrd -:.hem, they can do what: they like with them , Mr. Speaker .

They must have brought in by now a score of resolutions on this mrbiect <tnd r!Vcry time they brought them in 'lie have supported them. /\ncl every time they continue to bring them in 1 7 0:1

June 2, 1982 Tape 831 EC - 1 MR. NEARY: in the future we will support ~lem. Uut let me say this, Mr. Speaker, that a government under the British parliamentary system is elected to govern. They put forth their plans and policies and their proposals before the Ilouse and before the people of this Province. That is what they are elected to do, Mr. Speaker. And then the Opposition either opposes or supports these policies and these plans and these proposals. MR. STAGG: That is .not relevant. MR. NEARY: It is relevant. Mr.

Speaker, up to now, in the last two years, this administration has refused to govern and all they do day in and day out, week in and week out in this House, is to bring in resolutions condemning this one, condemning that one, condemning the other one, condemning Ottawa, condemning Nova Scotia. That is what they spend all their time at, Mr. Speaker, bringing in resolutions and not putting forward any plans or policies or programmes of their own. And they have brought in this resolution now a score of times, and a score of times we have supported the ownership question, and we have no difficulty, Mr.

Speaker, in supporting this resolution. But we are getting a bit concerned, Mr. Speaker, at the number and the variety of ways that this crovernment has of putting this and similar resolutions before this han. House. It seems to me, Mr. Speaker, that the only resolutions that this government is able to generate are related to offshore and a condemnation of the federal government. And in case hon. gentlemen might think that I am exaggerating, they should read the Order Paper today and look at the resolutions that have been sponsored by government members.

Every resolution is negative, every resolution is a condemnation of the Government of Canada or a ., 7 7 n

June 2 1 1982 Tape 831 EC - 2 MR. NEARY: ---- condemnation of somebody. Not one new member had the courage of his convictions or had the courage, period, to present a resolution that had something positive in it, that criticized his own administration, the administration that he is supporting,for not putting forward their plans and policies. Not one new member had the courage to do that, Mr. Speaker. And I would submit, Mr. Speaker, that these members are doomed to obljvion. ~1ey will, Mr. Speaker - r-1R. STAGG: We have heard that befcre . . , 7 7 .,

June 2, 1982 Tape No . 832 ~1R . NEJ\IlY: lion. <)en tlemen shou 1 cl rca 1 i7.e that getti ng elected is ea sy, ge tting re-elected is not so easy , Mr. Speaker . SD - 1 MR . BARRE'l 'T: MR . NEARY : You are trying to tar your O\vn side Nell I have only got seven in a row now, Mr . Speaker, and I believe that is a record for this Province, by the way . MR . STAGG : Joey must have ha d more . MR . NEARY : No he does not. He had six and then a break and then number seven. I have seven in a ro\v . MR: AYLWARD: That is not what you said . MR. NEARY : I beg your pardon, that is what I said .

I said I have seven in a row ~ Tha t is a record in this Province , seven in a row . AA: RIDEOUT : MR. NEARY: MR. RIDEOUT: MR . NEARY : is not too fAr n•·I~Y· MR . WINDSOR : MR . Ng /\ltY: Time to apolv fo r Senator . Pardon . Make Senate A~~lication . Mr. Speaker , and number eight You arc going to run federallv. Number clg hl , 1 have my eye on one seat in this House that r have not occupied yet MR . WARREN : Hear, hear . Right on . ~1R . NEARY : And I am beginning to like this job , Mr . Speaker , The job is good , I am getting excellent co-operation from my colleagues . MR. STAGG : MR .

SPEAKER (McNicholas) : A point of order , Mr . Speaker . Order, please ! 1\ point of order has been raised by the hon . member for Stephenville . MR . STAGG : Mr . Speaker , I put this resolution on the Order Paper for a specific purpose,that 1 wanted the Kouse to debate it . The hon . member has persisted in irrelevance 1 7 i I

June 2, 1982 Tape No. 832 SD - 2 MR. STAGG: throughout the whole of his speech, he does not want to direct himself to the issue, if not he should be directed to sit down.As the hon. the Government House Leader (Mr. Marshall) previously indicated, member may not persist in irrelevant discussion. the hon. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. HODDER: MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): member for Port au Port. MR. HODDER: Hear, hear. To the point of order, Mr. Speaker. To the point of order, the hon. It hQs been qencrnl in discussions on Private Members' Day to have some leniency in debate but the hon. member Eo·:- LaPoile (Mr.

Neary} was only provoked, Mr. Speaker, by the member who stood on the point of order. And basically, Mr. Speaker, iE members on that side want to muzzle us here, or if they want to heckle- there must be some give and take in t~is House of ~ssembly. I notice, Mr. Speaker, since the Leader of the Opposition has been speaking, there have been two points of order and both times, I think, Mr. Speaker, attempts to try and muzzle and to try to interfere with him as he tries to make his speech. MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: MR. MARSHALL : The hon. President of the Council. If I may, Mr.

Speaker., briefly on that point of order. The hon. gentleman says that it has been tradition that on a private member's resolution there is great latitude, He is wrong on that. The rules quite clearly indicate that in the Address in Reply and in the Budget Speech is a time when there can be wide·ranging debate on all items and all matters. Now the hon. member for Stephenville (Mr. Stagg} has put a very serious resolution on the Order Paper here with respect to offshore activities . If the hon. gentleman wishes to, as he has for the past 17/:·1

June 2 , 1982 Tape No . 832 so - 3 MR . Ml\RSHJ\LL: ten minutes, speak about all sorts of irrelevancies - . IC is not audrcssing himself, Mr. Speaker, to the situation , he is usurping the time of this House . And 1'\c \~ould be better off taking his seat and allowing other members to speak lvho can address themselves relevantly to this importa .nt issue. After all , if the member has brought this issue up , he is entitled to have it treated s eriously and with relevancy . 1 7 i h

June 2, 1982 Tape A33 PK-1 MR. NEARY: Sit d01vn boy. Go back to your lily pad, boy. There is no point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SIMMS: You were irrelavent. SOME HON. ~ffiMBERS: MR. SPEAKER(McNlCHOLAS): t'\R. Nf.i\HY: Oh, Oh! To that point of order. NOioJ, look, yt~u just knep out or this. You arc not Speaker anymore, you kno•:. MR. SPF.AKJm: 1-tR. SIMl1S: another thinq (inaudible). ~IR. NEARY: Order, pluusc! De careful now. That is You crawled into the Cabinet, sl ithcrcd in, f:

H) leave the Sp(~ilkcr .:!lone. t1R. SHIMS: I am followinq the lead of the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary). MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! To that point of order my immediate predecessor ruled that the speech \'las getting irrelevant. 1 1.,ri 11 ask the hon. member to stick to the motion. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the resolution itself is irrelevant. MR. loJARREN : That Ls ri<;ht. MH. NI::l\!!Y: Alief !;o, M1·. :;Jil;olkt·r, lh1.• ho11. gentleman tried to qive us a bit of the history, a bit of the history of offshore. Well l<~l me remind thb; hon. House, Mr.

Speaker, that the Premier, when he ,.,as Minister of Mines in this Province, put out .:1 glossy brochur~ on a policy, the energy policy of this administration. And in that brochure he said that the matter of offshore \vOU ld utimately have to be settled in the Supreme Court of Canada. MR. TULK: Did he say that? MR. NEARY: And at that time the background 1"1 ll1o11 wo~·; llt.!l I h••y h.t,J J•l•·po~l •·tl o1 •'.!::•· •j 7 i 5

..,. June 2, 1982 Tape 833 PK - 2 MR. HODDER: He sent out a brochure. MR. NEARY: - they had spent hundreds and hundr1xls of thousands of dollars of taxpayers' money to prepare their case. And they felt that they had such a strong case that there was no problem winning the battle before the court antl they sent a brochure out to every householdc,- in Newfoundland. Now, Mr. Speaker, the SIU case. The SIU case was triggered by this administration and by Crosbie's offshore. The SIU carne into this Province, as they felt it was their jurisdiction, to organize the employees, the workers on the supply ships.

And when the national rep­ resentative of the Seafarers International Union carne to Newfoundland to offer his co-operation and his help and his assistance to the g1)vernment, he was insulted by the Minister of Manpower (Mr. Dinn) in this Province, who was rude to him in his office. And Mr. Speaker they had to fight tooth and nail to organize the workers on the offshore vessels. And when they did get them organized, Mr.

Speaker, when they did get them organized through a secret ballot, the ballot boxes were not allowed to be opened because of the rudeness and the insulting attitude of the Minister of Labour and Manpower especially, and the arrogant attitude of the administration and the spokesman for Crosbie's Offshore. MR. BARRETT: (Inaudible) MR. NEARY: Oh, well, Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman will have his chance to get up 1 7 i 6

June 2 1 1982 •rape No. 814 MJ - l MR. S. NEARY: and defend Crosbie's offshore and Mr. Spelacy \vhenever he wants. But 1 Mr. Speaker 1 these are the facts. The SIU were forced into the court and the former minister who qot flicked out, the member for Mount Scio (Mr. L. Barrv) knew that. He knew that the SIU case was qoinq to trigger a very important case before the Supreme Court, as far as ownership was concerned. But the government were either too dense or they buried their heads in the sanu and did not want to recoqnize this, Mr. Speaker. Now, Mr.

Speaker, as I said a few moments acro,thc federal CJOVcrnmcnt did not qct a mandate of forty-four seats to run this Provi nee. '!'he member.> on the ooposite side did, and the people did not qive the hon. yentlerTCn a mandate to waste the precious time of this hon. House on such thinqs as resolution aftP.r resolution on the very same thinq, Mr. Speaker. '!'he tt.> is a rule aq,Jl ns L !"(•pel iLion in Lh is hon. House. Mr.

Speaker, these resolutions are merely a smoke screen set up by the qovernment to draw attention away From its other responsibilities which it is qrossly neqlcctinq, Such as the fishery, the construction industry, health services in this Province and the economv in qeneral. MR. HOUSE: Health services are very qood. MR. G. WARREN: Yes, like it happened today. MR. TULK: llow do you know? ~1R . NF.ARY: Mr. Sneaker, tho hon . qentleman tine-s not even know the imporl:ilncc of fluoride. MR . IVARn.EN : Yes, that is riqht. MR. NEARY: His iqnorance came throuqh today in the eommittee, Mr. Speaker. ~R.

WARREN: In the Committee too, by the way. Riqht on, riqht on. 1 7/ 7

June 2, 19f!2 Tape No . 834 MJ - 2 t-1R . S • NF.J\'lV : ~r. Socaker, T want you to know ann all Newfoundlanders to know- MR. TULK: De quite now before your foot qoes in your mouth . ~R. NF.ARY: - that you could not imagine the soeed and the enthusiasm of support that you Your Honour , wonl (1 qr•t" •• 1nd mc'nlh<"'rs from thnt !"ide of th<"' IIOU!"<"' wou1cl cwt, if this qovcrnment cv0r decides to offer a resolution in the arc~!" that T iust m0ntioncd . To offer a resolution in the area of its mm ;urisclict ion . Mr. Spe<:~ker , it is about time that this admi nis tra tion started qover ninq .

If this gover nment ever necides , ~r. Speaker , to try and improve the lots of Nev1foundlandcrs wi th somethinq which is under their authority, we shall salute and apolaud them far and wide, Mr. Speaker. MR. TUJ~ : You will not wear out your arm saluting, do not worry about that . MR. NF.J\RY : J\nd, Mr . Speaker, I am not talkinq about 0ven ts lvh ich mav be ten or twcl ve or fifteen years down the road,s;uch as is included in this resolution . Mr .

Speaker , while this qovernment olavs its little oolitical qames , on0- upmanship, while they are noinq that , while they have their case before the Newfoundland Court and th~ federal qovernment have their case before the Suorcm<"' Court , \·lhilc they nr<"' cloinq that, Mr.. Speaker, Halifax , Nova Scotia, j s stcnlinq the march , 'I 7 I A

June 2, 1982 •rape 835 EC - 1 t-lH. NI-:1\I{Y: .n<.l if we <.lo not w<.~tch jt, Mr . Speaker, the oil ship \oJill soon pass us by if it has not already passed us by . DR . COLLINS: the Feds. MR. NEARY: DR. COLLINS: MR. NEARY: Aided and abeLted by Aided and abetted by nobody . Now he does not like it . Mr. Speaker, the sole responsibility for the situation we find ourselves in in this Provi:~cc today on Lhc offshore, lalls on the shoulders of the members or the administration sitting on the opposite side . And if they continue to play political qames and waste - DR . COLLINS : What would you clo about .it? MR.

NEARY: No, Mr . Speaker . {·!hat I would du, 14r. ~Jil.!.:lkc•r - MR . WINDSOR: Another Upper Churchill? MR. NEARY : Yes , I tried to explain th at. I was not allo.,.led to talk about it, bu L I am goin<J to talk about it in another debate . Mr . Speaker , the onlv sensible , COIIU110n-sense c1nd decent "''ilY to setllc this matlcr .i!: through nt=gotiations. 1\nd, ~lr. Speaker, what the administration should do is put the ul t.i matum to Otta\.;a and say, 'Look, .,.,c are prepared to withdraw - MR. TULK : How arc you qol.ng to nctrotiatc with them? You cannot negotiate on one side . HR . NEARY: 1-lr.

Speilkcr, the administration should sny. 'l·:c nrc prcp;Jrcd to withdr.,w our ens<' from the Newfoundland Appeals Court if you will withdruw your ca se from the Supreme Courl of Canuel« .lnfl let us si I; dovm around the ncgotiatinq table and settle this matter to the mutual satisfaction of all concrrncd and in the 'J 7 i"

• .u: June 2, 1982 Tape 835 EC - 2 MR . NEARY: best interests of the people of this Province. MR . SIMMS: Mr. Speaker. f1R. SVEi\KER (Dr . McNicholas) : 'fhc hon . the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth . SO~t E I!ON . .ME~UlEHS : Hear , hear ! MR . NEARY: --- -- His •. taiden speech . MR. SIMMS: No, it is not my maiden speech . Mr . Speaker, I want to address myself to this resolution for a short period of time .

Most of the comments made by the hon . the Leader of the Opposition , of course, were totally irrelevant , as pointed out throughout the course of his comments - nothing at all to do w.i th the resolution . lle talked about the three member Opposition back in the day of the Opper Churchill contract, 178()

June 2,1982 Tape No. 836 ah-1 MR. SIMMS: but did not talk about the thirty-nine Liberals who formed the government of that particular day who sold this Province down the drain by signing that particular agreement. SOME HON.MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SIMMS: And he blames that on the Ooposition of the day. I ask you is that logic? Probably Liberal logic , yes, but it certainly is not logic. Then he talked about qovcrninq the Province, how you govern a province and things of that nature. Well, Mr. Speaker, 1 submit to you that we know how to govern.

We know how to govern the Province and that is evident and ,1lso, that he people of this Province supported us on April 6th and they to know thi'l t 1ve can govern the Province. '~~. H0DDF.q: nr~~ier LP.ves~ue told us about how he governs. MR. SIMMS: lle also throws in dll kinds or silly little things like,"There is only one seat that I have not occupied ever in this Province, only one seat." And he always points over to the Premier's seat. But, of course, he forgets to mention that he has never occupied the Speaker's seat anc J is not ever likelv to do so either. Jn any event , Mr.

Speaker, r want to address myself to the resolution and try to be relevant, the rr•:;.,Jrrl iron tlr.rl lr.r:; l•r•r·rr :;., .rilly jllr•::r·rrlr•rl IJy ruy ''"ll<•.t•tttr• the hon. member for Stephenville (Mr. Stagg). And it bears repeating, Mr. Speaker. It is a resolution that addresses perhaps the most important issue facing our Province today.

The resolution says, "WIIF:T"U-:1\S the provincial qovernment entered into orrshore neqoti<Jliuns with the federaJ qovernmc..mt on t:hc underst .uHiinq that the ownership issue had been put aside; AND WUEHEAS the federal government requested and obtained an expansion of the SIU labour relations court case into the area of / 1781

June 2,1982 Tape No. 836 ah-2 MR. SIMMS: offshore ownership during the period of negotiations; AND

WHEREAS the provincial government subsequently referred the offshore ownership issue to the Newfoundland Supreme Court." It does not mention the other issue that has arisen since this resolution was drafted, >r the fact that it has been unilaterally referred to the Federal Supreme Court by the federal government. 131': IT THEREFORE RESOLVED that this hon. liouse supports the position of the Newfoundland Government in that it is willinq to reopen neqotiations on the offshore issue with the Eedcrill government as soon as lhc Lcderal government agrees to set aside the ownership issue for the duration of the negotiations and permanently should an agreement be reached." Now, Mr.

Speaker, I want to, at the outset, say that I,for one,as a Newfoundlander was totally shocked and dismayed when I heard that the federal government had unilaterally referred the question of the offshore to the Supreme Court of Canada. '~!<. JJPHil: Shockinq! MR. SIMMS: I simply could not believe that the man responsible for justice for all Canadians , Mr. Chretien, aided and abctte~ I miqht add, by our own federal minister, Mr. Rompkey,who sat at thi~ side, came to Newfoundland for a few brief moments and made this announcement, that they were going to refer this question to the Supreme Court of Canada.

Not the question of the offshore,by the way,but just the question on Hibernia which, itself,seems absolutely uncanny and ludicrous. In fact, ., 7 d?

June 2, 1982 Tape 837 EC - 1 MR. SIMMS: we now know that the area referred to in the federal qu~stion, when plotted oul on a map,proves to be much larger than Hibernia. Indeed, it covers some 820 square miles and the Hibernia field only comprises some 35 square miles. The area also contains the main part of the Hebron field and part of the Ben Nevis field.

So the use of the Hibernia only concept is really a method to try to fool the Canadian public into thinking that the question before the Supreme Court of Canada is somehow different from the question before the Newfoundland Court of Appeal , thus justifying an unprecedented interference with the established judicial system. So, Mr. Speaker, they have decided, therefore, to circumvent the normal judicial traditions and practices of hearing the opinion of the Newfoundland Supreme Court, which is always done, of course, on these kinds of matters.

And never before has a federal government ignored the legitimate right of a Supreme rourt of a province to adjudicate on a matter of such importance to that province. There arc many others, of course, who agree with us on that particular opinion.

Let me just refer to some of them: Senator Eric Cook, a well-known Liberal, resigns from the Liberal Party in protest over the federal government's action; Premier Lougheed from Alberta says that his understanding has been that in the past it was implicitly accepted that by-passing the Court of Appeal in references would only be done with the concurrence of all governments involved; third, the Quci.Jcc newspaper, I.e' Devo i_r_,_ 1 7 d :\

1 June 2, 1982 Tape 837 EC - 2 MR • SII-1MS : calling the political way in which Lhi s •n•lt l<·r w.::ts hun tll ed 'simply hearlhrcakinq' . And they go on to say this - just listen to this now. lion. members opposite 1o~ould be wise to listen .

They say, "In the present case, one must hope that the Supreme Court of Canada, out of s.imple courtesy, out of respect for the good operation of the judicial system , out of respect for the institutions and to avoid being accused of prejudice, will await the decision of the Court of Appeal of Newfoundland before taking into consideration the request of the federal government ." And former Senator Forsey says, ''The Dominion Government 's action is, as far as I know, unprecedented.

It is in marked contrast to the procedure that government itself followed on the Patri~tion rosoluLions . lt is certainly irrc4ular . . , 7 fj 4

June 2, 1982 Tape No. 838 so - 1 MR. SIMMS: It interfers with the normal judicial procedure by virtually removing from the Newfoundland Court of Appeal an essential part of the question placed before it. This is highly improper. It is a tactic which could undermine our whole judicial system·: In editorials, Mr. Speaker, all across the country- the Cape Breton Post said in an editorial, 'If nothing else the federal government's move to the Supreme Court of Canada on the Newfoundland offshore question is provocative to a high degree.

The federal timing is all wrong and so is its proposal to confine the high court to the narrow point of who owns the Hibernia only. In fact, it makes little sense at all to settle Hibernia~ The Supreme Court would obviously have to go into the whole constitutional question of who owns the offshore.

And assuming the court should accept the constricted reference asked by the federal government, the country would be left in the strange position of one side or another in possession of a single piece of the Continentia] Sh~l r with ownership of the remainder up in the air.' The Edmonton Journal says: 'Why is the Liberal Government in Ottawa attacking the people of Newfoundland? Surely it is not in the name of all Canadians. ' And so, Mr. Speaker, we are far from being alone in our opinion.

Then,also,the federal government has completely ignored the election results of April 6th, 1982, in this Province .when the people gave this government a massive mandate to negotiate. In fact, that was the issue, a mandate to negotiate. And this government received at that time perhaps one of the larqest and qrcatest victories ever recorded, over 61 per cent of the popular vote - the hon. member would not know anything about that, I am sure - and 85 per cent of the seats in the House of Assembly. The neople of Newfoundland clearly supported 1 7 8 ,l

June 2, 1982 Tape No . 838 SD -2 MR . SIMMS : our desire to neg ot iate on the h.t!:i>; Cll Llw propQ:;.tlt•ll'!:<•lllt•ol l•• Llu· l't•dt·r.ol •J'IVt•nllll!!Ol. lo.w~ in January , 1982 . SOI'!E BON . MEMDE RS : MR . SIMMS : l~ar , hear ! Yes , Mr. Speaker , on April 6th . Newfoundlanders had spoken . 'the hon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr . Neary) would have to agree with that . But what happened on May 19th?

Newfoundlanders we re ignored , their opinion 1"as not listened to a L all by the federal go ve rnment , and nev er before has n federal gover nmen t so ~rroga nt ly dismissed the expression or opi nions or a people of a province on an iss ue Hhich so gre.:ttly a((ects them . It is a disgrace, Mr . Speaker , and was a slap in the face to aLl Ne wfoundla nd ers . They arc obviously playinq little qames with us. 1\ncl here is .:mother cx.:1mple , Mr .

Speaker: \oJhosc quote is thi s? and I quote "llie consistently ma intain that own ership is not the important issue, and that reac hin g a negotiated settlement on shared man.:tgement is the vi tall v important issue , I am offcri n<J the choice to negotiate" . l~ho said that? The Prime Minister of Canada, Pierre Elliot Trudeau said it on May 5, 198 1, in St . Jo hn 's, Newf ou ndland . So the Province decided to Dcccpt the of[cr tn ncqotia te a settlement, ·1 7 d 6

June 2,1982 Tape 839 PK - 1 MR. SIMMS: notwithstanding of course,its own strength with respect to its own legal case regarding ownership ,but a fundamental factor in the decision to negotiate was that the claims to exclusive ownership by both parties would be set aside permanently. In the first negotiating meeting on October 2, 198l,these understandings were enunicated by the Province. However,at the December 14, 1981 meeting. the federal response failed to meet those basic principles.

It repeatedly asserted federal ownership and jurisdiction. the setting aside of which ,by both parties ,was the whole basis of the negotiations in the beginning. So we accepted the Prime Minister's offer, yet his own negotiating team did not agree to put aside claims to ownership. So let there be no mistake , Mr.

Speaker, that for its part the Province and this government has repeatedly incicated that it will negotiate in good faith and attempt to reach a settlement which incorporates a few fundamental considerations such as the claim to exclusive ownership by both parties being set aside on a permanent basis, joint ~anagement, and an equitable sharing of revenues. MH. NEARY: /\ny more· : MR. SIMMS: The Government of Newfoundland - yes,I have some more for the hon. member- the Government of Newfoundland has clearly put its position on the matter as he knows. MR. NEARY: The feds have, too.

MR. s;IMMS: We,as a Province,are eager to negotiate .based upon putting aside ownership durinq the period of negotiations, and permanently if an agreement is reached as per the offer of the Prim e Minister, as per the offer of tne Prime Minister on Muy '),1981. 17d7

June 2, 1982 Tape 839 PK - 2 MR. SIMMS: And we want to use as the basis for negotiations, Mr. Speaker, the proposal which was presented to the general public and presented to the federal government on January 25,1982, a proposal which nobody yet, by the way, has said is an unreasonable one. There are other people in this country who have indicated quite recently, in fact, that they do not see where this proposal is unreasonable.

A letter to the Premier of the Province by the President and Chief Executive Officer of Dominion Securities, Aimes Limited, and a letter to the hon. ~~rc Lalonde by the same individual says in part, 1 I have studied in detail the presentation prepared by the Province of Newfoundland, a framework of agreement, dated November 12, 1981. And a proposal for settlement dated January 25, and sincerly hope that these proposals, together with ideas and proposals from the federal government, can form the basis for immediate discussion and an early agreement. 1 Mr.

Speaker, I suggest to you, that we in our proposal simply ask for reasonable things, like the establishment of a true partnership, a major economic benefit package, a fair split of the offshore resources and revenue - it is all here - true joint management, protection of workers, protection of the fishery, equal role for Crown corporations and permanence of arrangements. All of these matters - MR. NEARY: MR. SIMMS: Where do you get this? These are all contained in the proposal for settlement which was made public during the general election. 1 7 d A.

June 2, 1982 Tape No. 840 MJ - l MR. L. SIMMS: ~he han. member should have perhans p~i~ more attention to it. MR. DOVLE: Vou never r.ead that. MR. MARSHALL: They made some (inaudible) on the electorate. MJ<. SIMMS: Yes. Rut, Mr.Spc~ker, in any cvcnt,the federal government has refused to repond to our January 25th proposal and,in fact,have not yet responded. And they even went further, Mr. Speaker, by asking a fcdera] court,which was considering and unrelated matter in the SIU case dealing with offshore workers.to consider thc hrn.odc•r question or offshore ownership and that left us, Mr.

Speaker, with no choice but to refer the matter ourselves to the Supreme Court of Newfoundland. So what did the Prime Minister of Canada sav in St. ,John's in a speech on Muy 5th, 1981? He said, 'I am offering a choice to negotiate, Ownership is not the important issue.' Rut did they neqotiatc? No, Mr. Speaker. What did he say on May 19th? 'We are qoinq to court.' So once again thev are attempting to use the back door.

The Prime Minister even reiterated in his teleqram of May 19th to the hon. the Premier concerning the ownership issue, and I quote, "I have also believed very firmly that this could he set aside for the purpose of negotiating an agreement on ma,naqement and revenue sha rin<1." Yet the facts point to the opposite. MR. NEARY: Is that a telegram? MR. SIMMS: Yet the facts point to the opposite. MR. NEARY: Ts that a teleqram? ""4R. SIMHS: No, it is not i1 teleqram, it isJ as I said, 'In a telegram that was addressed to the Premier.' 17i:l~

-'- June 2, 1982 Tape No. 840 MJ - 2 MR. L. SIMMS: When the Premier introduced the resolution condemning the federal action - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker, here is the point I want to make. Now, when the Premier introduced the resolution condemninq the federal action,what did our friends across the way, the Opposition do? Did they come out four square jn support of Ncwfouncllanders and in support of Newfoundland and in SUPPort of the CTOVernment? No, Mr. Speaker, as usual they were sittinq on the fence, wishy-washy. The hon. thr' ml'mhl'r for th0 Stri1it of n0lll" Tsle (Mr. F..

Roberts) admitted it in his own speech. He said, and I quote, "We can either vote for this resolution or we can vote against this resolution." Now, Mr. SDeaker, I ask you,what more evidence do the people of the people of the Province need to understand the nosition of the Opposition on this issue and on many others? It is clear what their position is, they do not have one. The member for Port au Port (Mr. J. Hodder) , in fact, durinq that qreat debate said that he did not understand what we were discussinq. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. ,J. I!ODDF.R : A onint of order, Mr. Speaker. SOMJi: liON.

MEMnERS: Oh, oh! AN HON. MEMBER: It hurts, it hurts. MR.. SPEAKER (Aylwa i~ Point of order the hon. the member for Port au Port . MR. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, if I am going to be au6ted by the hon. member I wish to be quoted correctly. If the han. member has somethinq to say - when I spoke in that debate, Mr. Speaker, 1 said I did not understand why we were here . I Why we were here in an all niqht sittinq, ~r. Speaker, not what 1 7 9 fl

June 2, 1982 MR . HODDER : MR . W. MARSHALL: Tape No . 840 MJ - 3 th~ hon. member is tryinq to impute . That is nnt a point of order , Mr. Speaker . r know the hon . gentleman docs not understand whv he is h~rP . We do not understand how he is here eith er . MR. SPEAKE~-(~ylward) : r rule that it is not a point of order,that the hon . member i ust took the occassion to clarify statP.ment~ attributed to him . R0creation and Youth . MR . L. SIMMS : Th~ ~on . th~ ~inister of Culture , Mr . Speaker, r thank you for that ruling and so I will continue then, hctvinq said what 1 said. and the hon . member for Port au Port has iust reiterated it . 1781

June 2, 1982 Tape No. 841 IB-1 MR. DOYLE: What did you say? MR. SIMMS: He does not know where he is or what he is doinq or anything like that, I think, or words to that extcnl. In ,my evcnt,a[ter sayinq all of that he went on to say then, 'Well, I might vote for the resolution'. So he ~oes not understand the issue but yet he might vote for it. And one little thing that the hon. member for Port au Port (Mr. Hodder) drew into the debate , he ridiculed the Premier by saying that he grabbed onto the church/school issue during the constitutional process and discussions.

But what the member for Port au Port did not say was that the Premier was eventually proven riC]ht, e~bsolutely riqht by the people of this Province. SOME liON. MEMBERS: llear, hear! --- MR. SIMMS: The amendments were accepted. MR. NF:ARY: No, no. MR. SIMMS: The member for Fogo (Mr. Tulk), I remember during his speech on that resolution, kept saying that it is important to get this issue out of the way. And it was obvious to all who were listening that they would just love to get this issue out of the way, because they would not have to then be associated with their colleagues in Ottawa.obviously.

Because I know they are embarrassed by the position that their colleagues in Ottawa are taking. MR. NEJ\RY: Not in the least. MR. SIMMS : Oh, sure you are. 1\nd I have no wonder, Mr. Speaker, and I am not surprised that the hon. member for Fogo would want to get the issue out of the way as quickly as possible. MR. TULK: We would like to get the minister out of the way, out of the way of the Province. 1 7 8/

June 2, 1982 Tape No. 841 IB-2 MR. SIMMS: Now, Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) says, 'We could not trust Lalonde. We would not trust Lalonde as far as we could throw him'. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. SIMMS: The hon. member for Torngat Mountains (Mr. Warren) admits that even he wants to get rid of Mr. Trudeau and perhaps even Mr. Rompkey. ; 1R. BARRETT : Hedr, hear! MR. STMMS: 'J'hc member fr)r l'oJ·I: .lU Port (Mr. !!odder) says he does not trust us. I ask you, Mr. Speaker, do they trust anybody or are they simply paranoid?

The way they talk, you know, you would not know but it was just Newfoundland that wus havinq difficulties ~Jetting alonCJ with Ottawa. But, Mr. Speaker, no Province in Canada can yet along with Ottawa at the present time. Let us just have a look at what they are saying about Mr. Trudeau and Mr. Lalonde by the way, in a Toronto Globe And Mail editorial. I know you will be interested in this. It is dated March 3rd. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (AYLWARD) of the Opposition. MB NEARY· A point of ordur, Mr. Speaker. A point of order, the hon. Leader Mr.

Speaker, earlier this afternoon Your Honour was asked to rule on a point of order that was raised by an hon. qentlcman on the other side of the House. And Your Honour, l think, ruled properly that the member,who happened to be me at the time spe~1kinq, was irrelevant. Now, Mr. Speaker, T woulcl submit that an hon. gentleman who should know better, by the way, an hon. gentleman who is a former Speaker of this I louse shou I d know better, is completely irrelevant, Mr. Speaker, to the topic under discussion. And, not only that, but he js quoting 1 7 ~ 1

"' June 2, 1982 Tape No. 841 IB-3 MR. NT\7\I~Y : ~ newspilper in debntc ,which hils bt'('ll r·ulctl nut "r nnler sine(' 19.11. MR . _§JM!~S : I am not quotinq. MR. NEARY: Mr. SpeJkcr, the hon. gentleman shouJd know thJ.L <:1.5 o. former Speaker of this House , and as a 1 7 8 (,

June 2 Tape 842 TM- 1 MR. NEARY: member who pretends to know the rules of the House, but the hon. gentleman is irrelevant. Mr. Speaker, he is talking about everything except the resolution. And I would submit, Your Honour, that you direct the hon. member who is beinq irrelevant to this matter, to get back to - MR. SIMMS: You are just tryinq to kill m