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November 30, 2004

38th Parliament, 1st Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2004-Nov-30 (PDF)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L'ONTARIO

Tuesday 30 November 2004 Mardi 30 novembre 2004

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

WATER QUALITY

CONTAMINATED PROPERTIES

WATER QUALITY

TOMMY DOUGLAS

MICHAEL SIYDOCK

CATTLE FARMERS

HOSPITAL FUNDING

CURRICULUM

DOCTORS' SERVICES

ANNUAL REPORT,

PROVINCIAL AUDITOR

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

JAY LAWRENCE AND BART MACKEY

MEMORIAL ACT (HIGHWAY TRAFFIC

AMENDMENT), 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 COMMÉMORANT

JAY LAWRENCE ET BART MACKEY

(MODIFICATION DU CODE DE LA ROUTE)

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

AND RESPONSES

CHIEFS OF POLICE

ORAL QUESTIONS

ONTARIO FILM AND TELEVISION INDUSTRY

OMA AGREEMENT

WATER QUALITY

EMPLOYMENT STANDARDS

VISITOR

HYDRO GENERATION

AEROSPACE INDUSTRY

AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRY

GREENBELT

GOVERNMENT CONSULTANTS

AFFORDABLE HOUSING

HOSPITAL FUNDING

ROAD MAINTENANCE

VISITORS

PETITIONS

FREDERICK BANTING HOMESTEAD

ANAPHYLACTIC SHOCK

VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTERS

HOSPITAL FUNDING

VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTERS

IMMIGRANTS' SKILLS

DISTRICT OF MUSKOKA

ANAPHYLACTIC SHOCK

FREDERICK BANTING HOMESTEAD

TUITION

ANAPHYLACTIC SHOCK

LESLIE M. FROST CENTRE

CHILDREN'S HEALTH SERVICES

VISITORS

ORDERS OF THE DAY

BUDGET MEASURES ACT (FALL), 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 SUR LES MESURES

BUDGÉTAIRES (AUTOMNE)

ROYAL ASSENT /

SANCTION ROYALE

The House met at 1330.

Prayers.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

WATER QUALITY

Mr Bill Murdoch (Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound): I realize this isn't question period, but I rise in the House today to pose a couple of questions to

the Minister of the Environment.

Minister Dombrowsky, if a tragedy had occurred in your riding, a tragedy that resulted in several deaths and thousands of illnesses, would you have expected your

constituents to have a say in how to avoid similar disasters in the future?

Minister, if a regulation had been drafted as a direct result of this tragedy, but the regulation was deemed overbearing and far too costly by rural

municipalities, and the government decided to hold public consultations to hear concerns, would you have expected a consultation in your riding so that people who were directly affected could have

their voices heard?

I suspect that your answer to both questions would be yes. So why did you deny the people of my riding and the people of Walkerton a public consultation on

regulation 170? I thought that after you and Mr Jim Merritt, the chair of the Advisory Council on Drinking Water Quality and Testing Standards, received my letters requesting a local consultation,

the two of you would have had a meeting of the minds. But I guess not. The consultations are over, and I have been informed that no more public sessions will be scheduled.

Minister, my constituents and I are left to wonder, what if: What if this tragedy had occurred in your riding? Would you have demanded that Mr Merritt hold a

consultation for your constituents? I suspect I know the answer to that question as well.

CONTAMINATED PROPERTIES

Mr Dave Levac (Brant): Just a short time ago I came to the House with a serious situation that took place in my riding: a fire on a brownfield

site, an escheated property. I made mention to the Attorney General that I thought something needed to be done about this.

I'm standing today to report to this House that something has been done about it. I appreciate very much the actions of the Attorney General and the

interministerial committee that's been struck to deal with escheated properties, specifically brownfields or fields out there that are questionable in terms of their economic viability.

My challenge was that someone's going to get hurt. The reality is that as soon as that came to the Attorney General's attention, he gave me a call and said,

"What can we do to help?" "We need the government of Ontario to take some action on brownfields. We need the government to take action on escheated properties." We were given those assurances by

the Attorney General, and, lo and behold, the interministerial committee has already met and is talking about ways in which we can make these escheated properties safer for people, not only in my

riding but for the province of Ontario, and I'm deeply indebted to him for doing so.

We also want to make note that the city of Brantford, through its city council, took action immediately. The building has now been razed; it's down to the

ground. People are safe in that community, that particular property.

I look forward to the continued work of this province with the municipalities in the province. The challenge has also been put out, and the federal government

has answered the call. We're going to get three levels of government finally addressing brownfields all together.

WATER QUALITY

Mr John Yakabuski (Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke): I also rise today on the subject that my colleague from Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound was speaking

about, and that is regulation 170/03.

They did have hearings in my riding of Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke. They heard about it in spades, the disastrous effects the full implementation of this

regulation will have on rural Ontarians. People like Gunther Borck, Gerry Belisle, Roger Imhoff and Angela Burgess let them know what the consequences of this implementation would be.

This government has decided to postpone the implementation of that regulation. What we need to see are real, substantive changes to that regulation, if not a

complete redoing of the whole shebang. It is disastrous for rural Ontario and will result in economic hardship like you've never seen.

When Justice O'Connor was given his mandate to come up with new water regulations for the province of Ontario, he was not constricted by financial concerns, but

a government showing leadership must take that into consideration. We simply can't put regulations on rural people that they cannot afford without any regard to the hardship that will result for

them.

There must be changes. The minister has to stop dithering and delaying, put her shoulder to the harness and get to work on this.

TOMMY DOUGLAS

Mr Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): It is a true honour for me, on behalf of New Democrats here at Queen's Park, to pay tribute to a great

visionary, a great populist, a great democratic socialist and, according to last night's CBC contest, the greatest Canadian, Tommy Douglas.

Folks across this great country chose as their greatest Canadian a man who fought for public ownership and public institutions. They chose Tommy Douglas, the

former leader of the federal New Democratic Party, the former Premier of Saskatchewan and the father of Canada's universal health care system. They chose someone who brought in a bill of human

rights, brought electricity to rural Saskatchewan, introduced public auto insurance and set the model for crown corporations across this country.

Today it's hard to find a politician, and indeed a Canadian, who does not identify at some level or in some way with the great Tommy Douglas. In choosing Tommy

Douglas as one of the greatest Canadians, Canadians have sent a message that public ownership of public institutions, from health care to auto insurance to telecommunications, is integral to the

fabric of this country.

It is a fitting tribute on the 100th anniversary of Tommy Douglas's birth.

We should all take that message and continue to fight against privatization and the profit motive to keep the vision and legacy of that great Canadian democratic

socialist Tommy Douglas alive.

MICHAEL SIYDOCK

Mr Tim Peterson (Mississauga South): It is with great sadness that I rise in the House today to pay tribute to OPP Constable Michael Siydock,

who passed away on Friday, November 26.

Constable Siydock was on duty Friday evening when he collapsed while investigating a motor vehicle accident. He died of natural causes.

Constable Siydock was with the Ontario Provincial Police for seven years, serving on the Toronto and Port Credit detachments. Prior to becoming a police officer,

he worked as a conservation officer.

Constable Siydock died while doing what he enjoyed best: serving the community and those in need.

On behalf of the provincial government, we thank Constable Siydock for serving the people of our province for the past seven years. Our condolences go out to his

wife, Elizabeth, and children, Donald, Stephen and Laura.

CATTLE FARMERS

Mr Ernie Hardeman (Oxford): Today the President of the United States starts his visit to Canada in this great province.

Rural Ontario sees this as very positive and important, because lately we've heard some positive things from Mr Bush about Canadian cattle once again crossing

the border. This certainly is good news for our farmers and agribusinesses.

What isn't good news, however, is that this government has once again shown its disregard for the agriculture industry by not even bothering to get a

face-to-face meeting with Mr Bush. The best this Premier is trying for is a few words during a state dinner.

The Premier and the minister should be fighting for a meeting to impress upon the American delegation that this issue is of the utmost importance and the border

must be opened to live cattle as soon as possible. Instead, farmers will just have to be satisfied with passing conversation in a crowded room, if that.

To me, this is just one more example of this government's incompetence on this portfolio. Not only are they so far behind in processing safety-net funding

through the CAIS program that farmers are still waiting for money for 2003; they also chose to put BSE money in half-thought-out programs like the mature animal abattoir fund. Two of the four

abattoirs that received money from this program were not even capable of fulfilling the obligations of their contracts at the time they were awarded. Now the biggest problem ever to hit Ontario

agriculture will not even be discussed with the President when the government had the perfect opportunity.

Let's hope that, as beef is being served at the dinner, maybe it will jog the Premier's memory that there is a real problem with a very important industry in the

province he's supposed to be running.

HOSPITAL FUNDING

Mr Lou Rinaldi (Northumberland): I would like to take the opportunity to put an end to claims made by the MPP from Nepean-Carleton yesterday,

implying that I've been trotting around the country threatening to close hospitals. I have no idea where he got that information, but his facts are unsubstantiated and simply untrue. I fully

support the hospitals in Northumberland, and I want to see them open and providing the best health care to our community.

Let me tell you, I have been trotting around the countryside: I've been meeting with CEOs, I've been meeting with board chairs, I've been meeting with leaders of

those communities, like the mayors, to make sure they have proper health care.

The McGuinty government has invested over $12 million in health care in the riding of Northumberland, including an increase of over 20% in community access

centres; base funding for Northumberland's hospital of $585,000; Campbellford Memorial Hospital, $125,000; and $667,000 to the Campbellford district mental health centre.

It's sort of ironic, because the only time you would have seen newspaper headlines reading, "Hospitals Closing in Northumberland," was under that government when

they closed two hospitals: Campbellford and Cobourg.

The McGuinty government is dedicated to working with the hospitals and communities to be sure they continue to provide core services to everyone in

Northumberland and in the province of Ontario.

CURRICULUM

Mr Jim Brownell (Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh): Last week the Education Quality and Accountability Office announced that performance on

standardized provincial math testing for grade 9 students has improved this year, and I'm delighted about that.

I'm happy to announce that 68% of students in the advanced mathematics program either achieved the standard or surpassed it. But we continue to see too many

students having difficulty with the applied program, in particular with applied math.

This government is addressing that fact. We understand that students are different. Students learn differently and have varying difficulties and abilities. That

is why we're making changes to the curriculum for the next school year.

As the Minister of Education has stated, we have to act now. Instead of putting up roadblocks like the previous government did, we're working to break down walls

to help all of our students. We will revise the grade 9 applied curriculum to make sure there are two different math courses, and not just in name.

DOCTORS' SERVICES

Mr Phil McNeely (Ottawa-Orléans): I rise today to speak about the plan that will bring more doctors into Ontario and give Ontarians in

underserviced communities better access to family doctors. To quote the former NDP Premier of Saskatchewan, Roy Romanow, "This is a fundamental transformational change and is something that all of

the evidence in my report indicates should be implemented." He goes on to say, "I think the government is on the right track. I believe that the government of Ontario has the support of the

public."

We agree, but Howard Hampton of the Ontario NDP, on the other hand, seemed to have an odd fondness for the status quo. The NDP is not interested in transforming

health care in Ontario. When the NDP had the chance, the only thing they did was cut off Ontario's supply of doctors. I remember the days when Howard Hampton said, "Roma-now, not Roma-maybe," but

yesterday he flip-flopped and said, "Roma-never."

We agree with the old Howard Hampton: We have to move forward now. The one million Ontarians without family doctors, the 142 underserviced communities, seniors

and northerners, cannot wait another day. The day after Tommy Douglas, the founder of medicare, was named the greatest Canadian, it is a wonder seeing today's NDP try to stand in the way of taking

the next great step forward in providing health care to Ontarians. It is becoming more and more obvious that the NDP is nothing more than a tired party of the status quo, with no new ideas, dreams

or solutions to offer Ontarians.

ANNUAL REPORT,

PROVINCIAL AUDITOR

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): I beg to inform the House that I have today laid upon the table the 2004 annual report of the Provincial

Auditor.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

JAY LAWRENCE AND BART MACKEY

MEMORIAL ACT (HIGHWAY TRAFFIC

AMENDMENT), 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 COMMÉMORANT

JAY LAWRENCE ET BART MACKEY

(MODIFICATION DU CODE DE LA ROUTE)

Mr Rinaldi moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 153,

An Act in memory of Jay Lawrence and Bart Mackey to amend the Highway Traffic Act / Projet de loi 153, Loi modifiant le Code de la route à la

mémoire de Jay Lawrence et Bart Mackey.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Mr Rinaldi?

Mr Lou Rinaldi (Northumberland): What this bill does is ask to amend the Highway Traffic Act to prohibit persons from occupying the outside of a

truck or the delivery body of a commercial motor vehicle, or being towed while the vehicle is being driven on the highway. We have laws in this province that prohibit people from driving a vehicle

without seat belts -- they'll be fined points -- yet we allow people to ride in the back of a pickup truck with no restraints.

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

AND RESPONSES

CHIEFS OF POLICE

Hon Monte Kwinter (Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services): Two weeks ago I rose in this House to pay tribute to a group of men

and women who protect our communities and work to make Ontario safer. They are the front-line police officers of this province who risk their lives every single day: the people we turn to when

we're in trouble, the people who are there for us when we need them most. Today it's my privilege and pleasure to pay tribute to the leadership of that group of people, the chiefs of police and

senior police leaders, on the occasion of the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police Queen's Park Day. It is a worthwhile occasion. It gives us as politicians the opportunity to hear the concerns,

understand the needs and continue to build partnerships with the people who manage police services across Ontario.

In a little over one year, we have seen just how much the partnership between the McGuinty government and the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police has

accomplished to improve community safety. That partnership began in December of last year with the announcement of the Green Tide Summit, a joint initiative to combat marijuana grow operations and

the threat they pose to our communities, to our children and to our economy.

We stood together with the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police on the lawn by Mount Sinai Hospital in June to announce legislation that, if passed, would

make mandatory the reporting of gunshot wounds by hospitals and other designated health care facilities.

On October 13, together with the OACP and the OPP, the McGuinty government announced the first step in its plan to protect our children from Internet crimes of

luring and child pornography. Just six days later, I stood together with Chief Ean Algar of the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police to announce that the McGuinty government would introduce

legislation as a first step to combat grow operations.

This occasion also serves to remind us of how important it is for us to provide the support these chiefs need to do their jobs, and members of this House have

an important role to play in that regard. Thanks to the work of the officers and the goodwill of our citizens, Ontario is a safe place to live, and the McGuinty government is committed to making it

even safer.

In honouring this commitment, we continue to work with the chiefs to provide the tools they need to ensure the safety of the community. This government is

tough on crime and, more importantly, tough on the causes of crime. That's why we established a specialized task force in Toronto to target gun violence, particularly among gangs. The work of the

anti-guns-and-gangs unit has already begun. Several large-scale police investigations have resulted in a significant number of criminal charges being laid and the seizure of many firearms.

That's why we are providing significant additional funding to fight Internet-based crimes against children and sponsoring a two-year pilot project to help the

Toronto Police Service monitor and track down sex offenders. That's why we're fulfilling our commitment to invest in putting an additional 1,000 police officers on the street.

Our commitment to the safety of the people of Ontario is especially concerned with the issue of domestic violence. The McGuinty government's domestic violence

action plan, announced in April, is a multi-faceted response to a serious problem. It includes public education and training to mobilize communities to break the cycle of domestic abuse, and

training for police officers, crown attorneys and others working in the criminal justice system to better assess risk in abusive situations.

Two weeks ago, I announced the introduction of the Ontario domestic assault risk assessment pilot project in Ottawa and the North Bay area. This is a tool that

will identify domestic violence offenders who are likely to reoffend and thus help us protect women and their children from further abuse.

We continue to work with the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police on initiatives to enhance community safety. The association is effective in promoting the

interests of its membership and is a worthwhile partner for the government in securing community safety. You have no doubt heard Premier McGuinty say in this House that no single one of us is as

strong as all of us working together. The McGuinty government's partnership with the Ontario Chiefs of Police is a clear example of just what working together can accomplish.

Today, on the occasion of their annual Queen's Park Day, I am pleased to salute the hard-working men and women who make up the association, who give so much to

maintaining the safety of our communities and whose efforts on behalf of the communities they serve make us all proud.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Responses?

Mr Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North): I would like to make a response to Mr Kwinter's comments. First, I'd like to warmly welcome the Ontario

Association of Chiefs of Police to Queen's Park. Police chiefs, deputy police chiefs and other representatives of the association are meeting with MPPs throughout the day to raise some very valid

issues that the McGuinty government needs to address.

I was pleased to meet this morning with 16 OACP representatives from across the province, including their president and a member from my riding, Mr Paul

Hamelin, the chief of the Midland Police Service; Toronto police chief Julian Fantino; and OPP deputy commissioner Jay Hope. I would like at this time to congratulate Jay on his appointment as the

deputy commissioner, along with John Carson. It's a very great distinction for both of them.

Our leader, John Tory, participated in each of the two meetings I attended this morning. The OACP made it very clear they want to work in partnership with

legislators. Unfortunately, co-operation from the McGuinty government appears to be lacking at this time. I'm sure police leaders were happy to hear from our leader, John Tory, that our caucus will

continue to support the police because it's the right thing to do. John Tory assured police leaders that they don't need to feel alone and that our party wants to help them do their job.

I thought I should get a few of the OACP's issues on the record in the House today, starting with the broader issue of autonomy. Police leaders are ultimately

held accountable for community safety decisions that impact their communities. When the minister recently announced the termination of option 4, he took away from police leaders the decision about

what's right for the community. However, he also made this move without any real consultation with our police chiefs.

It's a sad day at Queen's Park when I read a letter from a police chief saying that he was informed of a decision through the media. I have a number of

comments on some of these topics. One is from the chief of the Kingston Police Service:

"You will recall when we met on July 20, 2004, regarding option 4, I stressed three very important points. Option 4 has been a line item in our budget. If the

initiative were to be cancelled, we would require sufficient notice regarding the impact on our budget. If option 4 were to be cancelled, how would the minister reimburse the Kingston police

service for the lost revenue? What was the position of the Ontario Association of Police Services Boards, which represents the governing bodies for our police services?"

From the Peterborough police service:

"Today I was informed through the media that you have chosen to cancel all option 4 programs in the province of Ontario effective January 1, 2005. I am

appalled that this announcement was carried out through the media, without advance notice to the police services involved at the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police. Quoted comments attributed

to you have called into question the integrity of my police service because I chose to utilize a traffic education program."

These are just two of many letters I've received, copied from Minister Kwinter, on this very important issue.

Police chiefs are also concerned about their autonomy in relation to the role of police services boards. The Police Services Act prohibits police services

boards from interfering in the day-to-day operations of police. But now, police chiefs are worried about police services boards and how councils are manipulating the makeup of these boards.

Ontario's police chiefs also want action from the government on the following issues: vacant positions on police services boards; the lack of availability and

training of justices of the peace; the impact on front-line policing of more police in courtrooms; lack of a minimum sentence for cultivating a narcotic when 80% of the product is exported to the

United States; exemption from any mandatory retirement legislation that comes forward from your government, as you promised.

Police leaders do not seem to be convinced that Dalton McGuinty will deliver on his promise to put 1,000 new police officers on the street. Because of budget

constraints, some municipalities will not be able to participate in any kind of cost-sharing arrangement with the McGuinty government in order to pay for the new police officers. It was mentioned

to me this morning that municipalities will be lucky to get even 200 more cops on the street before the next election. I have said many times in the House that the $30 million the McGuinty

government offered the police services of Ontario to put 1,000 new police officers on the street is a pittance. It's going to cost $200 million over the mandate of your government, and you're

putting in $30 million. It's simply not enough.

Interjection.

Mr Dunlop: To the minister from Sudbury, the fact of the matter is, we put 1,000 new police officers on the street and we would have continued

to do that today, because we keep our word. We keep our election promises. You should look at the mandate of the previous government to see how many we kept. You have not kept your promises and you

know you haven't, and you're going to live with it on October 4, 2007.

I appreciate the opportunity to respond today.

Mr Norm Miller (Parry Sound-Muskoka): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: It's my pleasure today to introduce, in the gallery, Danika Hawthorne's

dad, Brent Broadhurst, and great-uncle Robert Broadhurst. They are here visiting Danika today.

The Speaker: That's not a point of order, but welcome.

Mr Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): New Democrats are pleased to join in this welcome of Ontario's chiefs of police to Queen's Park. Indeed, New

Democrats look forward to meeting with these chiefs later this afternoon.

We want to make it very clear that it has become increasingly challenging for police leadership across this province to maintain adequately staffed and

adequately resourced police services in ever more challenging times. Our police officers, women and men, are out there serving their communities, protecting property and protecting life and, more

often than not, doing so at great risk to themselves.

I say that we should be exceptionally proud of our police officers, because I believe and New Democrats believe that the quality of policing here in this

province of Ontario is as high as you're ever going to find anywhere in this world -- make no mistake about it. Never have police officers been so well trained, so disciplined, so committed, and

never have police officers had to work under such difficult circumstances.

Chiefs of police across this province, big city through to small town, are perpetually engaged now in heated and protracted battles with police services boards

and councils over the most simple question, the most fundamental question, of adequate resources, adequate financing, so they can maintain some minimum standard.

I say to the minister: This recycled and now increasingly tired announcement of 1,000 new police officers has reached the point of annoyance, because you're

not talking about 1,000 new police officers; you're talking about 50-cent cops on a good day -- more likely 40- or 30-cent police officers. You know full well that it's the rare community in this

province that can afford to pick up the huge additional costs that would be imposed upon them were they to accept your rather meagre offer -- a modest proposal indeed.

New Democrats are increasingly concerned about the health and safety of police officers, who, in circumstances of understaffing, are called upon to do tasks in

inadequate numbers. We're concerned about the tools or, more importantly, the lack of tools available to police officers to do their jobs, tools that are becoming increasingly sophisticated as the

criminal utilization of technology becomes increasingly advanced.

Minister, you talk about specific endeavours to control Internet predatory conduct by pedophiles, among others, but you know full well that to acquire the

hardware and the personnel to deal with the IT, the information technology, and the high-tech demands is a scenario wherein police forces have to acquire yet more and higher levels of funding. If

this government is serious about its commitment to police officers, then this government will immediately move to focus on the needs of communities across this province, all the way from Niagara to

Toronto and to Peawanuck and Attawapiskat in northern Ontario, and ensure that police officers are there in adequate numbers, with adequate levels of training and resources, including the hard

tools they need to do their job.

It's not enough to support the initial training of new police officers; municipalities are finding it increasingly difficult to ensure that their police

officers are regularly involved in the upgrading and retraining that is necessary to maintain skill levels. This government talks a big game and indeed imports rather glib comments like, "It's not

just about crime; it's about the causes of crime." I say to you that people have a right not only to be secure in their communities but to feel secure in their communities. One of the ways you do

that is by listening to police officers and their chiefs of police across this province and ensuring adequate levels of staffing and police forces, from the very far north to the south, the east

and the west, and ensuring that the police forces have the resources. That means that this government has to make a commitment to real investments in those police forces.

Enough announcements, enough recycled announcements, enough already; what we need is hard cash. We need action, we need commitment and we need a sincere

movement on the part of this government to reinforce policing across the province.

ORAL QUESTIONS

ONTARIO FILM AND TELEVISION INDUSTRY

Mr Jim Flaherty (Whitby-Ajax): My question is for the Minister of Culture. There was a promise made by the Liberals opposite when they were

seeking office to improve tax credits for the film industry. That promise, of course, has not been fulfilled; it's another broken promise. We look to see why the promise was broken and the

government says, "Our tax credit is competitive as it stands right now," but then today we have the auditor's report released and tabled here. It says, "No statistics were compiled to demonstrate

the impact caused specifically by the tax credits." So who is correct? Is the auditor correct that there are no data, that in fact there is no measurement, of the impact of the media tax credit, or

is your government correct when it says that the "tax credit is competitive as it stands right now"?

Hon Madeleine Meilleur (Minister of Culture, minister responsible for francophone affairs): I thank you for the question. We have received the

Provincial Auditor's report, and the Ministry of Culture adopted the auditor's recommendation that we work collaboratively with OMDC and the Ministry of Finance to develop more specific performance

targets and look at ways of improving measuring the performance of these tax credits. I am pleased that the auditor's report noted that the OMDC has cleared a backlog of applications, and

processing time has also been reduced to 15 weeks when it used to take six months or a year. So there is a major improvement there. We are committed to ensuring that Ontario remains the film and TV

industry leader in Canada.

Mr Flaherty: The auditor didn't say that the statistics were not specific enough; he said that there were no statistics compiled -- nothing.

Yet your government goes around telling people who work in the film industry that the tax credits are competitive. More than that, it said yesterday, "Our analysis tells us that the major impact on

this industry right now is the value of the Canadian dollar." That's what your government says. What does the Auditor General say? He says, "No statistics were compiled to demonstrate the impact

caused specifically by the tax credit initiatives as opposed to other factors, such as the value of the Canadian dollar or the availability of production facilities." The Auditor General says you

have no data in support of what is being said by your government about the industry being affected by the Canadian dollar. Is the auditor wrong or did your government fail to disclose data to the

auditor?

Hon Mrs Meilleur: I will refer the question to the Minister of Finance.

Hon Greg Sorbara (Minister of Finance): I have to tell my friend for Whitby-Ajax that I am almost reckless hearing his questions. You see, his

leader is out there saying, "We've got to dramatically expand the tax credit." He's referring to an auditor's report condemning the management of tax credits during the period when he was in

government. Most of the analysis --

Interjections.

Hon Mr Sorbara: Oh, they don't like to hear that.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): The member for Oxford is not even in his seat and is disrupting the proceedings.

Could you wrap up in 10 seconds?

Hon Mr Sorbara: I just want to tell my friend from Whitby-Ajax that our recent analysis in the ministry, long after this auditor completed his

work on tax credits, has to do with the dramatic rise in the value of the Canadian dollar over the course of the past three or four months. There's no coincidence, and I'll finish later.

Mr Flaherty: We hear now from the Minister of Finance that there are data. I assume he'll be bringing those data forward to this House and to

the film industry of the people of Ontario so that they can see those data the Auditor General did not see.

It's worse than that. It's not just the broken promise, the untrustworthiness; it's the incompetence of the government. There are three entities now, the

Auditor General tells us, with their hands all over this tax credit that are supposed to know something about it: the Ontario Media Development Corporation, the Ministry of Finance and the Ministry

of Culture. The Auditor General tells us: "We also observed that it was not clear how the responsibilities associated with establishing and monitoring performance standards and targets were to be

shared among" the three. Not only that, there wasn't even consensus about what was to be measured. This is shocking.

You're out there, Minister of Finance, telling the industry it's about the Canadian dollar and that their tax credit is competitive. Your three ministries

can't even get along and decide what to measure. Will you just stand up and admit that your government is in disarray? You're incompetent on this issue.

Hon Mr Sorbara: I'll give that suggestion, sir, all due consideration.

We're talking about the auditor's report. The period that is reported on was from April 1, 2002, to December 31, 2003, as I recall, during most of that period.

But that's not the real issue.

I want to tell my friend from Whitby-Ajax -- and I think he will acknowledge this -- that this industry is incredibly important to Ontario. Hard-working men

and women, very talented men and women, have created, over the course of the past 15 years, a very strong film and television industry in this city, province and country. I want to tell my friend

that we will make sure on this side of the House and in this government that that industry is competitive. The issue is not just tax credits; it's the value of the dollar and other things that this

government will do to ensure that. I want to assure my friend that that is the case.

OMA AGREEMENT

Mr Robert W. Runciman (Leader of the Opposition): I have a question for the Premier. Premier, in the midst of the election campaign last year,

you spoke at great length about the need to bring stability to our health care system. You made 36 separate promises on health care. Then you ran an ad saying Ontarians needed to work, build and

dream together. I guess we shouldn't be surprised to find yet more evidence that your words mean nothing in practice. From your hated health tax to the privatization of health services to your war

on hospitals, now you've deliberately chosen to pick a fight with doctors.

Yesterday, the head of the OMA said that your behaviour was unacceptable and would do nothing to attract and retain doctors in Ontario. Premier, I agree with

Dr Rapin. Is this what you meant by working and building together?

Hon Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): I'm delighted to receive the question, of course, but I would think that

the OMA would be wondering about the member opposite's new-found allegiance to the Ontario Medical Association, given the member's particular predisposition toward that group in the past.

I want to quote from something he said in this Legislature. He said: "There is a term I could use to describe the OMA, but I will not use it. It is not polite.

I will just say it equates to ladies of the night, and I do not have a very high opinion of those individuals."

So I was just wondering about this new-found allegiance, support, and perhaps love, for the Ontario Medical Association. I'm just wondering about this

transition. Perhaps he may want to speak to that in his supplementary.

Mr Runciman: The Premier's staff had to go back about 20 years to find a quote like that, but the reality is, unlike the Minister of Health,

who's running into mysterious people called Larry the doctor to support his case -- it reminds me of Jimmy Stewart and Harvey the rabbit. You know, nobody else sees these people.

Premier, patients, physicians and the public at large are deeply concerned about one fundamental issue: the ability to find a doctor when they need one. Your

rhetoric and bluster aside, there is an acknowledged doctor shortage. The doctors have been retiring early, leaving the province or leaving the profession altogether.

Not so long ago, you used to talk about trying to fix that. Now you're steamrolling doctors into accepting a deal in which they truly have no choice, and your

minister says he'll pass regulations to make it happen -- no say by doctors, no debate by the House; your way or the highway. Premier, is this what you meant by working and building together?

Hon Mr McGuinty: We are delighted to be championing an agreement that will make Ontario's family doctors, according to statistics provided by

the Canadian Institute for Health Information, the highest-paid family doctors in Canada. Yes, we are proud of that agreement. We look forward to moving on that. It will also make our specialists

the second-highest-paid specialists in all of Canada, and we look forward, again, to moving on that course.

I know the member opposite will also be interested in hearing what Roy Romanow is saying about this particular approach. He says:

"Canadians should keep a watchful eye on what is unfolding in Ontario.

"The government has clearly embraced the kinds of changes and a longer view of things required to strengthen and sustain the future of our most cherished

social program....

"At this point in history, well over 80% of Canadians are onside, clear about their values and how they are best expressed through medicare, waiting and hoping

for change."

We are the harbingers of that change.

Mr Runciman: I wonder if the Premier asked Roy Romanow about privatizing a whole range of services in the province and people suffering. I

don't think he looked for advice there.

You don't provide meaningful answers in the House. You're denying doctors the right to vote on your take-it-or-else offer. I'm telling you, doctors will be

voting, and they'll be voting with their feet. This is dumb, wrong-headed and illustrates the incompetence of your government. This Liberal government has done more to encourage doctors to leave

Ontario than anyone in modern history. You're starting to make Bob Rae look good. That's the reality.

Premier, in your force-fed offer there are pilot projects involving after-hours care, geriatric and palliative care, as well as 16 joint OMA-government

committees, and you're asking doctors to join voluntarily. Given that you've already poisoned this relationship with the doctors, why would any doctor voluntarily join anything under this

agreement, considering your callous and arrogant treatment of their profession? Why would they volunteer?

Hon Mr McGuinty: Just to remind the member opposite, we devoted nine laborious months of negotiation with the OMA -- 120 meetings. We also had

four side tables and 44 meetings that flowed from that. What we've arrived at is an agreement that meets the needs of Ontario patients, which is the single most important responsibility we share

with doctors.

I say to Ontarians at large, who could be against a plan to bring more doctors into underserviced northern and rural communities? Who could be against a plan

that encourages and incents doctors to practise together in teams with nurse practitioners, nurses and other health care professionals so they can bring more comprehensive family care to Ontario

patients? Who could be against paying doctors to spend more time with seniors, against paying doctors to spend more time working on home care and in our nursing homes? Who could be against paying

doctors and providing incentives that help us reduce our wait times? That's the plan we placed before the people of Ontario, that's the plan we placed before doctors, and together we're going to

move ahead on that plan.

WATER QUALITY

Mr Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): I have a question for the Premier. In May 2000, rain washed animal waste from a nearby farm into a

municipal well in Walkerton. This resulted in E coli contaminating the municipal water supply, causing seven deaths and thousands of illnesses from contaminated water. The O'Connor report, which

examined this tragedy, concluded that a combination of inadequate groundwater mapping and inadequate enforcement was a major contributor to the disaster.

Here we are, four years after these tragic events and 14 months after your government assumed power, and the Provincial Auditor bluntly warns today that

overall, the Ministry of the Environment does not have adequate procedures in place to restore, protect and enhance groundwater resources. Premier, will Ontarians have to go through another

Walkerton-like incident before your government finally takes action to protect Ontario's drinking water?

Hon Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): I'll refer it to the Minister of the Environment.

Hon Leona Dombrowsky (Minister of the Environment): Our government very much welcomes the report of the Provincial Auditor. He has highlighted

an issue that has been very important to our government.

I'm very proud that just two weeks ago the Minister of Natural Resources and I announced $12.5 million that will begin the good work with conservation

authorities to establish groundwater protection across Ontario. Conservation authorities have welcomed this. We recognize that we are committed to implementing all of Justice O'Connor's

recommendations. We are plowing new ground every inch of the way. We have very willing partners across the province because, like this government, the people of Ontario believe it's absolutely

essential to implement a framework that will ensure that water in Ontario is safe to drink.

Mr Hampton: It's interesting to read the Provincial Auditor's report and then go back to your budget, because page 12 of the budget says very

clearly that the Ministry of the Environment is going to take another cut, a cut of at least 12%. Your own budget shows that.

I want to go back to the auditor's report. Everyone agrees that thorough groundwater mapping is the very foundation of good source water management. It's

interesting that you mentioned you want to get started on this, because the auditor says there are 36 watershed areas that need to be planned. What's your government going to do? It's only going to

plan six of 36, and you're only going to have this done by 2007-08. You haven't even established a time frame for the other 30 watershed plans.

Minister, will you admit to Ontarians that your 12% cut to the Ministry of the Environment budget is doing less to protect water, not more?

Hon Mrs Dombrowsky: I'm very prepared to admit to the people of Ontario that this government is spending more at the Ministry of the

Environment than any government for the last 10 years.

I'm very surprised that the honourable member, who was part of a government that cut the Ministry of the Environment -- it was funded at $824 million in 1991;

they cut it by almost $500 million -- has the audacity to stand in this House and suggest that our government is not committed to (1) the environment or (2) protecting water across Ontario.

With respect to the comments around source water protection, I would direct him to the draft legislation that has been posted on the Environment Bill of Rights

registry. It's very clear on the framework we intend to put in place. There will be a local component. Source water protection committees will be in place, and they will be based on watersheds

across the province.

Mr Hampton: Your officials were forced to admit to the auditor that you're only going to do watershed planning in six out of 36, and it won't

be done until 2008. Your own budget, on page 12, says that the Ministry of the Environment is going to take another 12% cut -- more of what the Conservatives did.

I want to go back again to what the auditor found. He said that your regular MOE inspections found that in only 5% of non-compliance cases were there any

threats to human health. However, more rigorous SWAT team assessments of non-compliance found threats to human health in 25% of these cases. It seems to me that there is clearly a desperate need to

hire more investigators to do more water investigations, not cut the Ministry of the Environment's budget by 12%.

The auditor says you can't do the job now, but you're going to cut 12% more from the budget. Is that what Dalton McGuinty meant when he said, "Choose change"

-- cut more, do fewer water inspections, place Ontario's water at greater risk?

Hon Mrs Dombrowsky: What Dalton McGuinty meant when he said, "Choose change," was that we are going to invest in our environment in the

province of Ontario. I'm very proud to say that our most recent budget increased spending at the Ministry of the Environment by 12.5%. I'm very proud to say that our government has increased the

number of water inspectors by 25%. We've hired 33 more water inspectors in the province. I'm very proud to say that our government has improved the standards. We've increased the standards. If

you're a water inspector in Ontario, there is a rigorous standard that has to be met.

That is keeping our commitment to the people of Ontario that we want to be sure that, when they turn on the tap, their water is safe.

EMPLOYMENT STANDARDS

Mr Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): To the Premier: The McGuinty government, like the Conservative government, is going to cut the budget

but then promise to do more.

Premier, today's auditor's report reveals that workers are having their basic rights on the job violated, while your government does next to nothing. Over the

past five years, the Ministry of Labour has admitted that there were 51,000 violations of the Employment Standards Act, yet out of those 51,000 violations, only 18 violations were prosecuted.

That's less than 0.05% of violators being prosecuted. Can you tell me something: Why is the McGuinty government letting 99.95% of the bad bosses off the hook when they violate workers' rights?

Hon Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): To the Minister of Labour.

Hon Christopher Bentley (Minister of Labour): I too asked that question when I took a look at what was happening with the Ministry of Labour,

and then when I turned to page 240 of the auditor's report, he has a chart that notes the 1991 concerns that the auditor had at that time and how they don't appear to have changed much in the

employment standards area, with the most recent report up to December 31.

One of the things he talks about is that prosecutions have been virtually non-existent, creating little incentive for employers to comply with the act. We

changed that in April when we introduced Bill 63. At the same time, we launched an enhanced enforcement initiative and an enhanced awareness initiative.

The fact of the matter is, there were next to no prosecutions of employment standards during the time of the NDP and during the time of the Tories who

followed. We're changing that. We followed that up in July with a new ticketing regime to make it easier to prosecute where the facts warrant it.

Mr Hampton: Minister, you mentioned Bill 63. That was before committee, and you could not find one labour representative nor any employer

representatives to support your bill. They all see it for what it is: superficial paper that will do nothing.

I want to go back to the budget again, because the Ministry of Labour is going to take a further 12% cut. Once again, your government promises to do more, but

then when you look at the fine print, you're going to cut the budget. Today's auditor's report also reveals that only 15% of workers who are owed wages actually get their money. Even in Alberta,

they double that success rate. Today's auditor's report also reveals that as many as 30% of workplaces found to be unsafe weren't coming into compliance. Yet we hear the same story: You're going to

cut the budget, but you promise to do more. How do you provide more effective enforcement when you're going to have less budget and less resources to do it with?

Hon Mr Bentley: Actually, more resources are going into the Ministry of Labour, but because we're enforcing the memorandum of understanding

between the WSIB and the Ministry of Labour, the inspectors that we're hiring are being fully paid for by the WSIB. That's why in July we were able to announce 200 more health and safety

inspectors, because they'll be fully paid for by the WSIB, so it doesn't come out of the pockets of the people of Ontario. Those inspectors will make sure that our workplaces are properly inspected

and our laws are properly enforced.

It was interesting, as well, that the member made reference to the fact that monies owing under the Employment Standards Act have not been collected. That was

the problem during the NDP years. Collection rates of monies owing under employment standards have rarely been better than 20 or 25%. That's why we're changing the process.

We announced the enhanced enforcement initiative last April. It includes proactive inspections and determination to more effectively collect monies owing

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Thank you. Final supplementary.

Mr Hampton: Your ministry officials tried that line on the auditor, and the auditor didn't buy it. Taking money out of the pockets of injured

workers and then saying you're going to do better enforcement in terms of unsafe workplaces doesn't cut it. It also isn't going to do anything for employment standards. It's not going to do

anything for those workers who are owed overtime, those workers who are owed vacation pay or those workers who simply haven't been treated fairly on the job.

What did Dalton McGuinty mean when he said to workers, "Choose change," and now we find that the Ministry of Labour budget is going to be cut a further 12%?

The auditor says you can't do the job as it is. What's a further 12% cut going to do, Minister? How many workers are going to be hurt as a result of that?

Hon Mr Bentley: Unfortunately, the honourable member isn't doing his math. The ministry is actually spending more money, but because the money

is being recovered fully from the WSIB, it means less money is coming out of the public coffers: more money, more inspectors.

I was fascinated that the honourable member said we were taking money out of injured workers' pockets. We didn't take it out. In 1994, it was the NDP who took

money out of workers' pockets when they cut inflation protection for injured workers, and the Tories followed that up in 1997 when they did even more. The member should be ashamed for talking about

taking money out of injured workers' pockets, because he and his party did it in 1994. Now we have to try to fix the mess they left us, and we're going to do that.

VISITOR

Mr Bill Murdoch (Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I would like to introduce the Speaker's aunt, who is sitting up in

the gallery. She's 96 years old and is here from Jamaica to check on her nephew to make sure he's doing a good job.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): A good point, but not a point of order. New question.

HYDRO GENERATION

Mr John O'Toole (Durham): My question is to the Minister of Energy. During the last election, you and the Premier promised the people of

Ontario that you would shut down Ontario's coal-powered plants by 2007. You said, "No more coal." In today's Windsor Star, your hometown newspaper, you're quoted as saying, if I may, that coal

reserves will be needed if, "God forbid, something happens to the Beck generation station" at Niagara Falls. Furthermore, in the Ottawa Citizen you admitted that the intermittent wind power

strategy will not work and will require coal backup systems.

Minister, this is a classic McGuinty Liberal flip-flop. You now know that you have not been telling the people of Ontario the truth over the past 14 months.

Will you stand in your place today and finally admit to the people of Ontario that this was an irresponsible and ridiculous election promise?

Hon Dwight Duncan (Minister of Energy, Government House Leader): Our government is on target to close the coal plants and reduce the air

emissions that have caused an alarming increase in the rate of childhood asthma and have caused 1,800 premature deaths in this province, as recounted by independent sources.

The commitment that we are on target to make is on

schedule and we are moving toward it. We're bringing on new and cleaner electricity. I remind the member

that we announced the Niagara tunnel initiative earlier this year; we announced 395 new megawatts of clean, renewable power; we have proceeded with the CETI negotiations -- that is, the Conawapa

project in northern Ontario -- which is more good news.

We believe it is in the interest not only of the people of this province but of anyone downwind from major sources of coal that it is appropriate to remove the

coal issue from our air quality. This government made that commitment, and we're moving toward achieving it in a prudent and responsible fashion.

Mr O'Toole: This is one more classic example of Liberal obfuscation.

Minister, why did you tell the Windsor Star what I've just quoted? You tell the people of Ontario and the House, on the official record today, something

totally different. It reminds me of the complete election platform by the now Liberal government, saying one thing to get elected and doing something quite opposite.

You know you did this to win votes. You made these promises knowing they were irresponsible. You've given out sweetheart deals to your buddies in the wind

industry. This is a fundamental demonstration of incompetence and mismanagement of the very highest order. Minister, it's simply a choice of whether you have actually not done your homework or a

matter of your having been ill-informed. You can't squirm out of it any longer. Will you admit to the people of Ontario that you have failed and broken promises on every issue of the energy file,

as on many other files as well?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Order. I want to warn the member to be careful with his language as he describes certain proceedings

here.

Minister?

Hon Mr Duncan: No, we're keeping our promises on the energy file. Let me tell you about incompetence. Incompetence is saying that Pickering A

unit 4 will cost $400 million and it cost $1.2 billion. Incompetence is about opening the energy market and then slapping it down with a price freeze that cost Ontario consumers and taxpayers a

billion dollars. Incompetence is about not improving the supply in Ontario over eight years, to the point where our reserves were down to the dangerous point of 11% two summers ago. Incompetence is

about not facing the challenge of the energy file head-on.

Our government is committed to improving the quality of air in this province by reducing and eliminating the emissions associated with coal. We're on target to

do it, we're going to do it and we're going to do it in a responsible fashion, for the future of this province and the people who live in it.

AEROSPACE INDUSTRY

Ms Andrea Horwath (Hamilton East): My question is to the Minister of Economic Development and Trade. More than 23,000 highly skilled Ontario

workers and their families depend on the aerospace industry to provide well-paying jobs. In fact, we're joined here today by some of these working women and men from Toronto's Bombardier-de

Havilland plant. They're up there in the gallery. They are here because Bombardier, as you probably know, will soon decide where it's going to assemble the C series of jets. These hard-working CAW

families want those jobs here in Ontario, but that's going to take action from your government, action we haven't yet seen. Ontario's aerospace industry cannot succeed unless the provincial

government steps up to the plate and gets involved. I want to know, Minister, what is your plan to bring the C series production to Ontario?

Hon Joseph Cordiano (Minister of Economic Development and Trade): I have been talking to Bombardier and I have met with aerospace industry

officials over the past number of months. I met them at the Farnborough aerospace show in London and we talked about the future of the industry. In fact, the industry is on a rebound worldwide, and

that's good news for production here in Ontario and good news for workers in Ontario who are looking forward to better years. They have gone through a difficult period over the last number of

years, particularly after 9/11. I say to the member that we will be discussing matters with Bombardier, that we will be in discussions around what they are proposing. We have talked to them and

will continue to talk to them about what the future might hold for Bombardier in Ontario, in Canada.

Ms Horwath: Minister, talk and meetings are a good first step, but as we all know, the clock is ticking away on this issue. That decision is

going to be made very soon. The status quo is simply not good enough. Ontario stands to lose a multi-billion-dollar industry. The Quebec government has already stepped up to the plate to build

their industry, offering tax incentives, loan guarantees, export credits, residential value guarantees, research and development funding and many more things. Meanwhile, Ontario is letting new

investment in that kind of industry take flight by failing to provide leadership and a strategy. Will you commit now to an aerospace strategy that will bring the C series jet production to de

Havilland and aerospace jobs to Ontario, something more than just a wing and a prayer?

Hon Mr Cordiano: I remind the member that we are in discussions with Bombardier, among other companies in the aerospace business. We're

talking with respect to what the future holds for the industry. I have to tell you, the future is a very promising one for the province of Ontario. The climate for investment has never been better

for this province. In fact, as a result of the huge investment that Ford Canada made in this province, we've seen a huge vote of confidence for this economy.

I say to the member, I'm very optimistic about the prospects for Ontario and for the aerospace industry in this province, as the prospects increase and become

brighter for all workers in Ontario, because, I'll tell you what, this government is taking action. We are moving in a positive direction. We're taking action with respect to investments we've made

in the auto sector, key investments that will be providing high-paying, high-value-added jobs, and it will be no different in the aerospace industry.

AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRY

Mr Bruce Crozier (Essex): My question too is for the Minister of Economic Development and Trade. I'm interested in the auto industry in

Ontario. I have a great deal of interest in the auto industry. In my riding of Essex and those of Windsor-St Clair and Windsor West, the auto sector is incredibly important. Companies like Ford,

DaimlerChrysler and General Motors provide good jobs. The auto sector is a linchpin in the Ontario economy.

News reports from the Globe and Mail and the New York Times and figures from Ward's Automotive tell us that Ontario production in the auto industry will

surpass Michigan for the year 2004. This says great things about the auto sector in Ontario. What is your view of the state of the auto industry in Ontario, Minister?

Hon Joseph Cordiano (Minister of Economic Development and Trade): I'm very proud to report to this House that Ontario is indeed poised to

become North America's leading jurisdiction when it comes to auto production. I'm also delighted and proud of the fact that our auto workers deserve a lot of credit for their very high skill level.

In fact, they are the best auto workers in the world, second to none. And I'm proud of this Premier --

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Member from Nepean-Carleton, for most of question period you've been behaving excellently, but in the last 10

minutes it has deteriorated. Please come to order.

Minister?

Hon Mr Cordiano: There is just too much good news they are not willing to listen to.

I have to tell you, I'm very proud of this government's and this Premier's commitment to the auto sector. Through our automobile investment strategy, we will

continue to make sure that Ontario is on the cutting edge when it comes to auto investment.

The Speaker: Supplementary.

Mr Wayne Arthurs (Pickering-Ajax-Uxbridge): There's been a lot of talk about the high dollar and its effect on exports; timely because the

Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters are at Queen's Park today.

In my riding of Pickering-Ajax-Uxbridge, we have many companies that have grown and have started exporting out of Ontario. Ecotech, an innovative design,

engineering and manufacturer of industrial water purification systems, export their knowledge and promote products internationally.

Ontario, the leading auto-producing jurisdiction in North America, is a wonderful accomplishment. Minister, I've heard a lot about your auto strategy and had

the opportunity to join with you in Oshawa at the truck plant a couple of weeks ago. How will your strategy keep our industry competitive in the face of increasing global competition and changing

market conditions?

Hon Mr Cordiano: I'm happy to say that, even as the market is changing for autos, Ontario will continue to be at the forefront of

competitiveness.

I want to cite a report that was handed down by Scotiabank yesterday. It stated that parts shipments rose 7%, year over year, through September 2004, roughly

double the increase of US suppliers. I quote from the report: "The Canadian auto parts industry continues to gain market share in North America, despite strong headwinds from a soaring Canadian

dollar."

We are positioned to do better things in the future and continue to be at the forefront of competitiveness, and it is through our auto investment strategy that

we'll continue to make investments in key areas with respect to skills development, research and development, energy savings and environmental technology.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order. I'm having a difficult time hearing the minister. The member from Whitby-Ajax and the member from Don Valley East are

having a discussion. Will you all come to order, please.

Hon Mr Cordiano: I'm beginning to think it grates on the opposition's ears when there is good news in Ontario. That's sad.

Interjection: They should be happy.

Hon Mr Cordiano: They should be happy, and they should be applauding the auto sector and auto workers.

I'm just delighted to say to the House that the industry is at the forefront of competitiveness and will continue to be as a result of the key investments

we're making in the auto sector.

GREENBELT

Mr Tim Hudak (Erie-Lincoln): I have a question for the Premier. Last night, I joined about 800 concerned citizens at the greenbelt public

information session in Caledon. Last week it brought out a similar crowd in St Catharines, probably the most emotional and heated public meeting I have attended in recent memory. My colleagues from

Durham report the same from the hearings in Oshawa.

If you listen to the feedback from these hearings, there are serious, broad-based and fundamental concerns with your legislation and the lack of science

underlying your greenbelt map. Your government is telling concerned citizens that it wants to pass the bill before December 16, leaving a maximum of four days for MPPs to review hundreds of

submissions from across the province. The haste with which you are proceeding with this legislation is unnecessary and irresponsible. We believe in protecting green space, but to do so based on

science. Premier, will you extend the deadline for consultations and send this legislation to committee hearings in the new year?

Hon Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): No, we will not extend our time frame. We're moving ahead with a very

important piece of legislation. It's more than passing strange, just a little rich, to have a request for more consultation from a member of the former Conservative government in Ontario, which

broke all records when it came to ramming legislation through in this Legislature.

There have been significant opportunities for people to comment on the general thrust of this policy. We've had hearings now with respect to the specifics. We

look forward to moving ahead. We're talking about creating something here that will be durable, that will be beneficial for generations yet to come. We're talking about preserving in perpetuity 1.8

million acres of green space to enhance not only the quality of our lives but of generations yet to come.

Mr Hudak: Certainly that partisan response will be cold comfort to the thousands of people who have expressed their concerns about the

legislation and have asked for additional time for consultations and committee hearings.

It's not just me, Premier. The Wellington county planning committee is recommending to the province an extension of the December 16 deadline because of the

last-minute inclusion of Wellington. The Durham region chair, Roger Anderson, in the Toronto Star was critical of the province's December 16 deadline, with just four days for comments. Mayor Rod

Finnie of Erin, Ontario, expressed his displeasure with those tight time frames. In a similar

article in the Wellington Advertiser, even municipal affairs civil servants seem to agree that the time

frame is simply unreasonable.

When Erin town manager Lisa Haas asked Victor Doyle, your civil servant at municipal affairs, "How can you review comments and have a final plan by December

16?" Doyle reportedly said, with a wry grin, "Good question."

Premier, I'll ask you again, will you respond to municipal leaders, farmers and concerned taxpayers, extend the time frame for consultations and send the bill

to an all-party committee for consideration in the new year?

Hon Mr McGuinty: To be clear, I know that the member opposite and his party do not support the preservation of green space; I understand that.

They have been very clear about that in the past and they're very clear about their position on that today. But we believe that we have a responsibility to proceed with this very important public

policy initiative, and it has support from a number of groups.

The member opposite quoted from some municipal officials, as will I. Bill Fisch, the chair of York region: "We're very pleased about it. York region will be

picking up more than a thousand acres ... of new parkland." Larry Di Ianni, Hamilton mayor: "The government is doing what it said it would. We have a little of both, protection for sensitive lands

and space for growth." Neil Rogers, president of the Urban Development Institute says that "the deal should mark the end of a long and acrimonious period between the industry and the provincial

government that predates the Liberals."

We are moving ahead with this in a responsible and conscientious way, and we are doing it for all the right reasons, because we feel that we have a

responsibility to generations yet to come -- not just ours -- to preserve green space in perpetuity.

GOVERNMENT CONSULTANTS

Ms Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): I have a question to the Minister of Community and Social Services. The Provincial Auditor noted in his

annual report that there are ongoing problems with the computer system at the Ontario disability support program. Of course, this is the computer system put in place by Andersen Consulting, now

Accenture.

The auditor noted that the computer system lacks internal controls, fails to meet ministry needs, fails to meet recipients' needs and causes unexplained errors

and omissions, and yet Accenture, the creator of this abysmal computer system, is still on your government's payroll until at least October 2005.

Minister, you had so much to say about Accenture when you were in opposition, and all of it was negative. Why are they still on your payroll?

Hon Sandra Pupatello (Minister of Community and Social Services, minister responsible for women's issues): We've had a very interesting year

of discussions with the last government's favourite company, Accenture. Let me just say that we have had some very fruitful discussions. The company is not legally liable for any of the work.

The last government entered what they called a common procurement process, which in the end the Provincial Auditor said, very clearly, absolutely did not work.

This government -- the people of Ontario -- have a billion-dollar system they are now stuck with and don't have a legal leg to stand on. That's what we have to thank the last government for.

Let me tell the Speaker and, through the Speaker, the people of Ontario, that in this past year we have moved mountains to make a system that is more

accountable and reliable to the people who need it the most; that is, the people on social assistance who deserve the appropriate amount of support when it's required.

Ms Martel: I'm glad you're having fruitful discussions with Accenture, except the program still doesn't work and they're still on your

payroll.

Look, the Provincial Auditor pointed out that a number of the problems he identified in this new report were also identified in the 2002 Ontario Works report.

These were the same problems that the auditor pointed out in his 1998 report, when he investigated this boondoggle.

Andersen Consulting, now Accenture, has done very well by the taxpayers of Ontario. They were paid $66 million more than the $180-million cap set for the

project, their staff were paid more than the rates for people doing comparable work in the public service, they got paid for savings to social assistance that didn't result from their work and

they're still on your payroll. When are you going to cut Anderson-Accenture loose so the Ontario taxpayers can stop being ripped off?

Hon Ms Pupatello: What is really important to note is that of all parties, the NDP, who ran the biggest debacle of a government in the history

of Ontario, should rightly ask these questions of the former government. I had many questions of the former government. How dare they spend taxpayers' money with such unaccountable methods as they

did in the social assistance system? I ask the people of Ontario to note with interest --

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Order. I'm having difficulty hearing you, between the member from Trinity-Spadina and the member from Nickel

Belt. Could I have --

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order. We'd like to proceed with question period.

Minister?

Hon Ms Pupatello: Thank you. The people of Ontario have a right to know that, unlike the last government, we've actually put people in place

to check things like overpayments, to make sure we have on our social assistance system people who are very vulnerable and need the right level of help. We actually have people doing that work now,

an area that was completely ignored by the last government, despite the Provincial Auditor pointing that out repeatedly.

All I have to say to the last gang who thought they were so smart is, they made an absolute mess of our social assistance system.

AFFORDABLE HOUSING

Ms Kathleen O. Wynne (Don Valley West): Mr Speaker --

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): It's your party that is holding up your time. Member from Don Valley West.

Ms Wynne: My question is for the Minister of Public Infrastructure Renewal. Report after report has identified the lack of affordable housing

as a key obstacle to overcoming poverty for many families in the province, but more particularly in Toronto. According to the city of Toronto's report on housing and homelessness, over 65,000

households are on social housing waiting lists and a third of families in Toronto fall below the affordability level of the average rent. Many of those live in our ridings of Don Valley West and

Don Valley East, as you know.

The Daily Bread Food Bank has found that almost two thirds of food bank users spend an alarming 67% of their income on rent. Clearly, for many in our city and

in our ridings, market rental housing is not affordable.

For most of the last decade, the previous government stood by and did nothing as housing became less and less affordable for the least fortunate among us. For

most of the last decade, the previous government took the position that housing was not the business of the provincial government. Minister, in contrast to the previous administration, would you

outline what this government is doing to promote the construction of affordable housing?

Hon David Caplan (Minister of Public Infrastructure Renewal): There is an enormous contrast. In fact, over 3,200 units of affordable housing

have been approved by our government. An additional 2,100 affordable housing units have been made available to municipal providers, with $85 million in the 2004-05 budget. The former government

allowed a lot of the federal money to languish in bank accounts; we've unlocked those federal dollars. We've provided additional flexibility by extending program deadlines, changing the procurement

rules and broadening pilot eligibility.

We are currently consulting with our municipal stakeholders and other housing providers on a new housing program in Ontario. Most importantly, we are in an

advanced stage of negotiations with our federal partners on a new affordable housing program that will include new flexibilities. This will allow us to meet our commitments to match the federal

dollars and deliver those much-needed affordable housing units.

Ms Wynne: Thank you for an answer that indicates you're making a start on this critical shortage. Among the most interesting meetings I've had

in recent months was with Mike Labbé of Options for Homes, a non-profit group that uses a truly innovative model to promote ownership of affordable housing for lower-income Ontarians and

Canadians by leveraging, rather than simply spending, government subsidies. Indeed, under the Options for Homes approach, people who would otherwise find themselves strapped to meet the monthly

rent are able to benefit from the dignity of home ownership with a level of subsidy that's consistent with the Canada-Ontario affordable housing agreement. What is this government doing to promote

the inclusion of innovative approaches like Options for Homes, which promote construction of affordable housing across the province?

Hon Mr Caplan: It's an excellent question. In fact, on November 8, I joined with John McKay, my counterpart from the federal government, to

make an historic announcement: funding for 382 units of affordable ownership housing units in three pilot locations in Scarborough, Pickering and Markham. These projects are built by Options for

Homes, Mike Labbé's group, and will provide permanent, affordable housing for Ontarians who need it. Options for Homes and home ownership alternatives are not only building these homes,

they're building communities in partnership with the McGuinty government. We are very proud to be partners in this regard.

I intend to make affordable home ownership a significant component of the new round of the Canadian-Ontario affordable housing program. I encourage developers,

non-profits and community organizations to come forward with creative ideas so we can make the dream of home ownership a reality for so many Ontarians.

HOSPITAL FUNDING

Mr Cameron Jackson (Burlington): My question is to the Minister of Health. You have been the minister now for 14 months. During that time,

you've attacked health professionals like --

Interjections.

Mr Jackson: Apparently your caucus is very proud of your attacks on chiropractors, physiotherapists and optometrists, they're very proud of

your declaring war on two thirds of hospitals in our province, and they're extremely proud of your treatment of Ontario's 22,000 doctors with your take-it-or-leave-it attitude, which can no longer

be referred to as any form of negotiation, ever, in our province.

Your regional staff of your ministry have informed my local hospital, Joseph Brant, and, I can only assume, others, that they may not be eligible for any of

the $107 million you've put aside for reducing and shortening waiting lists in our province for cataracts and hips and knees. Why are your staff threatening patients in my community?

Hon George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): It's only the honourable member who can turn every story to suit the storyline

he wants to work. Here's the very clear reality: We have $107 million to invest in a wait time strategy for the balance of the fiscal year 2004-05, which only has four months to go. Obviously,

therefore, in seeking out from Ontario hospitals to see who has capacity available, we have to take into consideration who has the nurses ready to roll, who has the capacity in their operating

rooms to be able to fulfill the services, who has the capacity from a fiscal standpoint to be able to manage these challenges.

We have a limited amount of resources, and one of the limited resources we have on this point is time. Therefore, obviously, for the balance of fiscal 2004-05,

we will be targeting these resources at the hospitals in our province best suited to meet the demands of patients. At the end of the day, it's not about your hospital or your hospital or your

hospital; it's about the capacity of our health care system to be able to meet the important patient needs of Ontarians. What are we talking about? More cataract surgeries, more hip and knee

surgeries, more cardiac --

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Thank you. Supplementary.

Mr Jackson: Minister, the one person who doesn't have limited resources is you. According to the estimates of your own ministry, you feathered

your own nest by expanding your own administrative staffing complement by 7% in this year's budget, and yet you're asking the citizens of Burlington to live with one half of 1% for their entire

hospital. Burlington has a population of 150,000 people. There are a considerable number of people from the ridings of Stoney Creek, Ancaster-Dundas-Flamborough-Aldershot and Oakville who attend

Joseph Brant Memorial Hospital.

This hospital has always been performing under the expected cost per weighted case for patient care consistently throughout its history, yet you're telling

this House that they will not be eligible for funding under your program because your bureaucrats deem them to be inefficient, when in fact they are. Minister, will you assure those communities

that all patients --

The Speaker: Thank you. Minister.

Hon Mr Smitherman: All patients in this province have equal access to the fund. It's necessary to spend the funds well and to make sure the

services can be fulfilled. Those are the criteria we subjected all hospitals to, as is fully appropriate. But what I find interesting is that the honourable member has so quickly forgotten his own

propensity to spend public tax dollars on hotel rooms and steaks, and challenges me on the issue of administrative costs.

The very clear reality is that we are a government that is determined to make progress on the important patient needs of the people of Ontario. That's why

we've invested $107 million in a wait time strategy for the balance of this fiscal year: more cataract surgeries, more hip and knee surgeries, more cancer surgeries, more cardiac, and a 20%

improvement in our access to MRIs and to CT scans. That is our record: more services for Ontario's patients.

ROAD MAINTENANCE

Mr Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay): My question is to the Minister of Transportation, but I must say, the answer of the Minister of Health

was unbecoming of a minister.

My question to the Minister of Transportation is the following: You will know that in the last Parliament your Premier, then-opposition leader Dalton McGuinty,

along with your transportation critic and myself, opposed the Tory government's move to privatize winter road maintenance. I will note that in the Provincial Auditor's report issued today, yet

again -- for about the fourth or fifth time, I must say -- the Auditor says that this particular move to privatize winter road maintenance did not ensure effective oversight and evaluation of the

performance of contractors engaging and maintaining provincial highways, and that the appropriate corrective action was not taken. Will you today admit that winter road maintenance privatization

was a mistake, and will you keep your government's promise from when you were in opposition to cancel the privatization of winter road maintenance?

Hon Harinder S. Takhar (Minister of Transportation): Let me tell you, I really appreciate the work of the Provincial Auditor. I have a

background in finance, and I know how much work has gone into it.

We are going to look very seriously at all the recommendations the Provincial Auditor has made and determine our cause of action as we move forward. Some of

these contracts are long-term contracts, so we want to make sure right now that we monitor those contracts properly and make sure that they give us value for money.

VISITORS

Mr Mike Colle (Eglinton-Lawrence): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: In the visitor's gallery we have Lieutenant Colonel Hugh Tilley from the

Salvation Army, who is here to remind us that the Christmas kettle appeal for the Salvation Army is underway in all of our communities across Ontario. Hopefully, we can all get behind the Salvation

Army and the amazing work it does for those in need in this province. Let's hear it for the Salvation Army and the good work it does.

Hon Jim Watson (Minister of Consumer and Business Services): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I just want to point out that former school

trustee Mary Lou Fleming from the great city of Ottawa is in the gallery.

PETITIONS

FREDERICK BANTING HOMESTEAD

Mr Jim Wilson (Simcoe-Grey): I have a petition to save the Banting homestead.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas Sir Frederick Banting was the man who discovered insulin and was Canada's first Nobel Prize recipient; and

"Whereas this great Canadian's original homestead located in the town of New Tecumseth" -- Alliston -- "is deteriorating and in danger of destruction because

of the inaction of the Ontario Historical Society; and

"Whereas the town of New Tecumseth has been unsuccessful in reaching an agreement with the Ontario Historical Society to use part of the land to educate the

public about the historical significance of the work of Sir Frederick Banting;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the Minister of Culture endorse Simcoe-Grey MPP Jim Wilson's private member's bill entitled The Frederick Banting Homestead Preservation Act so that the

homestead is kept in good repair and preserved for generations to come."

I want to thank all those from the Alliston Dairy Queen and Brisco Furniture who have signed this petition, and I've also signed.

ANAPHYLACTIC SHOCK

Mr Dave Levac (Brant): "To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas there is no established province-wide standard to deal with anaphylactic shock in Ontario schools; and

"Whereas there is no specific comment regarding anaphylactic shock in the Education Act; and

"Whereas anaphylactic shock is a serious concern that can result in life-or-death situations; and

"Whereas all students in Ontario have the right to be safe and feel safe in their school community; and

"Whereas all parents of anaphylactic students need to know that safety standards exist in all schools in Ontario;

"Therefore

be it resolved that we, the undersigned, demand that the McGuinty government support the passing of Bill 3,

An Act to protect anaphylactic

students," -- my bill -- "which requires that every school principal in Ontario establish a school anaphylactic plan."

I sign my signature to this petition and give it over to Nicholas.

VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTERS

Mr Bill Murdoch (Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly which is from the Meaford Fire Department.

"Whereas many volunteer fire departments in Ontario are strengthened by the service of double-hatter firefighters who work as professional, full-time

firefighters and also serve as volunteer firefighters on their free time and in their home communities; and

"Whereas the Ontario Professional Fire Fighters Association has declared their intent to `phase out' these double-hatter firefighters; and

"Whereas double-hatter firefighters are being threatened by the union leadership and forced to resign as volunteer firefighters or face losing their full-time

jobs, and this is weakening volunteer fire departments in Ontario; and

"Whereas Waterloo-Wellington MPP Ted Arnott has introduced Bill 52, the Volunteer Firefighters Employment Protection Act, that would uphold the right to

volunteer and solve this problem concerning public safety in Ontario;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the provincial government express public support for MPP Ted Arnott's Bill 52 and willingness to pass it into law or introduce similar legislation that

protects the right of firefighters to volunteer in their home communities on their own free time."

I've also signed this.

HOSPITAL FUNDING

Mrs Maria Van Bommel (Lambton-Kent-Middlesex): "To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the funding formula used by the Ministry of Health provided only a 1% increase for Four Counties Health Services in Newbury; and

"Whereas Four Counties Health Services has a projected deficit of $1.7 million; and

"Whereas the plan to balance the budget of Four Counties Health Services by 2006 recommends the closing of all beds at the hospital; and

"Whereas the continuing viability and operation is of critical importance to the quality of life of all citizens in the hospital's catchment area;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, request a review of the budget/funding and consultation with the hospital board/administration/community to reflect the needs

of our rural hospital and community."

VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTERS

Mr Ted Arnott (Waterloo-Wellington): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario, and it reads as follows:

"Whereas many volunteer fire departments in Ontario are strengthened by the service of double-hatter firefighters who work as professional, full-time

firefighters and also serve as volunteer firefighters on their free time and in their home communities; and

"Whereas the Ontario Professional Fire Fighters Association has declared their intent to `phase out' these double-hatter firefighters; and

"Whereas double-hatter firefighters are being threatened by the union leadership and forced to resign as volunteer firefighters or face losing their full-time

jobs, and this is weakening volunteer fire departments in Ontario; and

"Whereas Waterloo-Wellington MPP Ted Arnott has introduced Bill 52, the Volunteer Firefighters Employment Protection Act, that would uphold the right to

volunteer and solve this problem concerning public safety in Ontario;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the provincial government express public support for MPP Ted Arnott's Bill 52 and willingness to pass it into law or introduce similar legislation that

protects the right of firefighters to volunteer in their home communities on their own free time."

Needless to say, Mr Speaker, I support this petition and have affixed my signature to it.

IMMIGRANTS' SKILLS

Mr Shafiq Qaadri (Etobicoke North): I have a petition here addressed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario regarding access to trades and

professions in Ontario.

"Whereas Ontario enjoys the continuing benefit of the contributions of men and women who choose to leave their country of origin in order to settle in Canada,

raise their families, educate their children and pursue their livelihoods and careers; and

"Whereas newcomers to Canada who choose to settle in Ontario find frequent and unnecessary obstacles that prevent skilled tradespeople, professional and

managerial talent from practising the professions, trades and occupations for which they have been trained in their country of origin; and

"Whereas Ontario, its businesses, its people and its institutions badly need the professional, managerial and technical skills that many newcomers to Canada

have and want to use;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the government of Ontario, through the Ministry of Training, Colleges and Universities and the other institutions and agencies of and within the

government of Ontario, undertake specific and proactive measures to work with the bodies regulating access to Ontario's professions, trades and other occupations in order that newcomers to Canada

gain fair, timely and cost-effective access to certification and other measures that facilitate the entry, or re-entry, of skilled workers and professionals trained outside Canada into the Canadian

workforce."

I am more than pleased to support this petition.

DISTRICT OF MUSKOKA

Mr Norm Miller (Parry Sound-Muskoka): I have a petition to keep Muskoka a part of northern Ontario, and it reads:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the district of Muskoka is currently designated as part of northern Ontario; and

"Whereas the geography and socio-economic conditions of Muskoka are very similar to the rest of northern Ontario; and

"Whereas the median family income in the district of Muskoka is $10,000 below the provincial average and $6,000 below the median family income for greater

Sudbury; and

"Whereas removing the district of Muskoka from northern Ontario would adversely affect the hard-working people of Muskoka by restricting access to programs and

incentives enjoyed by residents of other northern communities; and

"Whereas the residents of Muskoka should not be confused with those who cottage or vacation in the district; and

"Whereas this is a mean-spirited and politically motivated decision on the part of the McGuinty government;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the McGuinty government maintain the current definition of northern Ontario for the purposes of government policy and program delivery."

I support this petition and affix my signature to it.

ANAPHYLACTIC SHOCK

Mr Kim Craitor (Niagara Falls): I'm pleased to read in the following petition addressed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas there is no established province-wide standard to deal with anaphylactic shock in Ontario schools; and

"Whereas there is no specific comment regarding anaphylactic shock in the Education Act; and

"Whereas anaphylactic shock is a serious concern that can result in life-or-death situations; and

"Whereas all students in Ontario have the right to be safe and feel safe in their school community; and

"Whereas all parents of anaphylactic students need to know that safety standards exist in all schools in Ontario;

"Therefore

be it resolved that we, the undersigned," request "that the McGuinty government support the passing of Bill 3,

An Act to protect anaphylactic

students, which requires that every school principal in Ontario establish a school anaphylactic plan."

I'm pleased to affix my signature to this petition.

FREDERICK BANTING HOMESTEAD

Mr Jim Wilson (Simcoe-Grey): A petition to save the Banting homestead:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas Sir Frederick Banting was the man who discovered insulin and was Canada's first Nobel Prize recipient; and

"Whereas this great Canadian's original homestead located in the town of New Tecumseth" -- or Alliston -- "is deteriorating and in danger of destruction

because of the inaction of the Ontario Historical Society; and

"Whereas the town of New Tecumseth has been unsuccessful in reaching an agreement with the Ontario Historical Society to use part of the land to educate the

public about the historical significance of the work of Sir Frederick Banting;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the Minister of Culture endorse Simcoe-Grey MPP Jim Wilson's private member's bill entitled the Frederick Banting Homestead Preservation Act so that the

homestead is kept in good repair and preserved for generations to come."

I want to thank the good people at the Alliston Dairy Queen and Briscoe Furniture for circulating this petition. Of course, I agree with it and have signed

it.

TUITION

Mr Mario G. Racco (Thornhill): I have a petition on behalf of University of Toronto students from the Mississauga, Toronto and Scarborough

campuses. The petition reads:

"Whereas the Ontario Liberal government took a historic step forward by funding a tuition fee freeze for two years; and

"Whereas a majority of Ontarians support increased public funding for colleges and universities as well as reduced tuition fees; and

"Whereas increasing student debt through income-contingent loan repayment schemes or raising loan limits only increases the cost of post-secondary education

for students from modest means; and

"Whereas per student investment in Ontario still lags gravely behind the vast majority of jurisdictions in North America;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, are supporting the Canadian Federation of Students' call to increase funding for colleges and universities and reduce tuition

fees for all Ontario students, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to (1) reduce tuition fees for all students in Ontario, (2) increase public funding for post-secondary education to at

least the national average, and (3) implement an upfront, needs-based grant system for Ontario full-time and part-time students."

ANAPHYLACTIC SHOCK

Mr Dave Levac (Brant): "To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas there is no established province-wide standard to deal with anaphylactic shock in Ontario schools; and

"Whereas there is no specific comment regarding anaphylactic shock in the Education Act; and

"Whereas anaphylactic shock is a serious concern that can result in life-or-death situations; and

"Whereas all students in Ontario have the right to be safe and feel safe in their school community; and

"Whereas all parents of anaphylactic students need to know that safety standards exist in all schools in Ontario;

"Therefore

be it resolved that we, the undersigned, demand that the McGuinty government support the passing of Bill 3,

An Act to protect anaphylactic students,

which requires that every school principal in Ontario establish a school anaphylactic plan."

I sign this petition, as I will the rest of them, and hand this over to Danika.

LESLIE M. FROST CENTRE

Mr Norm Miller (Parry Sound-Muskoka): I have a petition to save the Leslie M. Frost Centre, and it says:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the Leslie M. Frost Centre is Ontario's leading natural resources education, training and conference centre, aimed at fostering an understanding of

natural resource management, with a focus on ecosystems and how they can be sustained for future generations; and

"Whereas the McGuinty government refused to consult with municipalities and other user groups before taking this drastic action and continues to operate in a

clandestine manner; and

"Whereas this move will hurt the people and economies of Muskoka and Haliburton, especially those in the local tourism industry; and

"Whereas the Frost Centre is a valuable resource for elementary, secondary, post-secondary institutions as well as a variety of other groups;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the McGuinty government reverse the decision to close the Leslie M. Frost Centre."

I support this petition and affix my signature to it.

CHILDREN'S HEALTH SERVICES

Mr Jim Wilson (Simcoe-Grey): A petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas there are approximately 23,000 children and youth in Simcoe county and York region who have special needs; and

"Whereas approximately 6,000 of these children have multiple special needs that require a range of core rehabilitation services; and

"Whereas children with" unique "special needs (and their families) throughout the province access ongoing rehabilitation services that are critical for their

development at children's treatment centres in their area; and

"Whereas there is no children's treatment centre in Simcoe county or York region. For families that can travel, the closest services are in Toronto; and

"Whereas Simcoe county and York region is the only area left in the entire province that does not have access to children's treatment centre services in their

own area; and

"Whereas the Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care provided funding to the Simcoe York District Health Council for implementation planning for an integrated

children's rehabilitation services system in December 2001; and

"Whereas the implementation plan was submitted to the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care in December 2002; and

"Whereas the proposal was reviewed and approved by the appropriate ministries in 2003, and in August" of 2003 "the Ministry of Health advised the Simcoe county

and York region district health council that the funding had been committed and would be available shortly;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislature of Ontario to release the funding for the children's treatment centre in Simcoe county and York region so that

core rehabilitation services can be delivered to the children and youth in Simcoe county and York region."

I thank those who signed this petition, and I agree with it.

VISITORS

Mr Norm Miller (Parry Sound-Muskoka): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I'd like to ask the other members to welcome over 100 kids from my

riding who are here today from Bracebridge and Muskoka Lakes Secondary School. I'd particularly like to embarrass my son, Winston, who is here on the east side, bottom row. Come on, Winston, stand

up there so I can see you. He's not co-operating. And teachers Jennifer McCreary, Heather Medley-Fernandez and Jessica Murray, with her grade 10 civics class from Bracebridge.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): It's not a point of order, but they're welcome.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

BUDGET MEASURES ACT (FALL), 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 SUR LES MESURES

BUDGÉTAIRES (AUTOMNE)

Resuming the debate adjourned on November 29, 2004, on the motion for second reading of Bill 149,

An Act to implement 2004 Budget measures, enact the Northern

Ontario Grow Bonds Corporation Act, 2004 and amend various Acts / Projet de loi 149, Loi mettant en oeuvre certaines mesures énoncées dans le Budget de 2004, édictant la Loi de

2004 sur la Société d'émission d'obligations de développement du Nord de l'Ontario et modifiant diverses lois.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): The member from Beaches-East York had just completed his speech. Questions and comments?

Mr Pat Hoy (Chatham-Kent Essex): I'm pleased to comment on the speech by the member from Beaches-East York. He did indeed take a whole hour,

which is commendable, I must say, to speak to this budget bill, Bill 149. He made a number of points, which is his wont to do.

I want, in the few seconds that I have, to comment once again on the apprenticeship training tax credit. This will be important for many regions of Ontario,

and no less so for my own region of Chatham-Kent Essex. Very early on in my first election time of 1995, persons approached me at that date, almost 10 years ago, talking about the need to address

the situation of apprenticeships.

According to the Ontario Chamber of Commerce's 2003 skilled trades survey, within the next 15 years, 52% of skilled tradespersons are expected to retire. So

we're going to need to replace those fine jobs that exist in those various skills. As well, 41% of respondents anticipate that they will face skills shortages in their industry within five years.

That was some of the message and the substance of the message that was given to me in 1995, in terms of skills training in my community and, indeed, through the Windsor and Chatham-Kent Essex

area.

This plan for new funding of $11.7 million annually by 2006-07 will expand to some 26,000 the number of young people registered in apprenticeships. This is

indeed a welcome aspect of this bill. Also included in Bill 149 is a provision on Ontario property tax credits for seniors. For moderate- and low-income persons, it will increase the basic property

tax amount from $500 to $625.

The Speaker: Questions and comments. Member for Toronto-Danforth, are you -- member for Simcoe-Grey.

Mr Jim Wilson (Simcoe-Grey): Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): Thank me.

Mr Wilson: My colleague from the NDP is rescuing me here today.

I'm happy to make a couple of comments on the budget bill. It strikes me that the government, when introducing this bill, was bragging about the fact that

they've increased the seniors' property tax credit by $125. What they forget to tell seniors across the province is that in the last budget bill they cancelled the $400 tax credit we had put in

place to offset education taxes paid by seniors who no longer have children in the local schools. It's something seniors have asked for for many years. So they've robbed Peter to pay Paul, and they

conveniently forget to mention that seniors are actually getting ripped off by about $275, had they stuck with the Conservative government rather than switched to the Liberal government.

Secondly, this bill removes the sales tax credit for vehicles that are modified to accommodate disabled people. I think that's just a shame. The government

says it was an underutilized program. Well, if it was an underutilized program and was costing you only a little bit of money, then you should have kept it in place. It's obviously of great value

to those disabled citizens who need a modified vehicle to get them around.

Finally, as the former Minister of Health and a seatmate of Mr Miller here, this bill removes the district of Muskoka from the designation of northern Ontario.

This means, for example, that citizens in Muskoka will no longer qualify for the northern Ontario travel health grant. They won't qualify for other incentives to bring physicians to their area, and

I know that Muskoka, Mr Miller's riding, along with many other ridings in the province, needs that extra help to attract physicians. They will no longer qualify for special road grants. They will

no longer qualify for any grants under the $30-million-a-year northern Ontario heritage fund, which, by the way, the NDP had gutted when they were in government, and which Mr Harris, when he was in

government, doubled to $60 million a year, and now the people of Muskoka won't have access to that.

Ms Churley: It's my pleasure to take a couple of minutes to congratulate my colleague the member for Beaches-East York, who spoke for an hour

on this bill. I'm sure he could have gone on much longer had he been given the time, because there are a lot of things in this bill that we need to point out to people.

A couple of things I want to dwell on, just for this short time: This act ends the rebate for modification of vehicles used to transport handicapped people. I

don't understand why you're doing that. It was this member, the member for Beaches-East York, who, because he raised it in the House on several occasions and created a stink, was able to get the

rebate for Jason Chenier, who is from Glengarry-Prescott-Russell. I know he went to his Liberal member and wasn't able to get support and help that way. I give credit to our member here, who raised

it and raised it and was able to get that rebate for him. But everybody deserves this rebate, and I encourage the member for Beaches-East York to keep on the government and have them rescind this

really regressive step taken in this bill.

They say it was underutilized. I would say it was underutilized because enough people didn't know about it. It seems to me -- I don't want to use the H word

here, so I won't -- that the government is bringing in a disability act here that will take up to 20 years to bring into force, and at the same time is cancelling this minuscule program that can

help people right now. I would urge the government to do something about that.

The other thing I want to talk about is that the PST rebate for energy-efficient appliances, which expired in July 2004, was not renewed. This is really

critical. They brought in a rebate for residential solar systems and things like that, but a lot of people need to start with the baby steps, and that's been taken away from them.

So I would urge the government to bring back these two very important rebates for people.

Mr Jean-Marc Lalonde (Glengarry-Prescott-Russell): Just to carry on with what my colleague from Chatham-Kent Essex mentioned, this bill will

definitely encourage people to follow their training. We know that in the next couple of years at least 50% of our skilled tradespeople are expected to retire, and this means we have to invest in

colleges and universities.

When we look at what our government, the McGuinty government, has done since the election of October 2003 -- we said we would increase the number of MRIs in

the province. To increase the number of MRIs, we have to develop technicians. This bill will definitely make the money available for those people who want to develop themselves in the technical

field to respond to the needs of patients in hospitals.

We said we would reduce waiting times in hospitals. Again, we have to have the money in the colleges to create the space to meet those requirements, so we had

to come up with the money.

We have to develop our teachers, to respond to the needs in our province -- our Minister of Education has said that we'll reduce the number of children in

classes from junior kindergarten to grade 3. Again, we need the money to develop those people.

We said we would invest in the infrastructure program. Again, we need engineers. The tax breaks that people will be getting to train those people in on-the-job

training we have available will be in place to respond to the needs of the people of this province.

The Acting Speaker (Mr Jim Brownell): Response?

Mr Michael Prue (Beaches-East York): I thank the members for Chatham-Kent Essex, Simcoe-Grey, Toronto-Danforth and Glengarry-Prescott-Russell

for their comments, although, I must admit, in listening to their comments I was hoping that some of them might have commented on what I actually said in this Legislature for an hour. I commend my

colleague from Toronto-Danforth for actually dealing with the issues I raised at that time. But I thank the other members, even though they may not have listened to my speech or may not have

understood it, who at least contributed to the debate in their own way.

The member for Chatham-Kent Essex talked about apprenticeship taxes, and of course those are important. The member for Glengarry-Prescott-Russell talked about

the same thing, to reiterate his concern. The member for Simcoe-Grey talked about the seniors' property tax break. Of course we all have to do something -- anything we can -- to assist our seniors

in this province.

The real issue, and what I talked about myself in that hour, was four major faults in the legislation. First and foremost was the elimination of the capital

tax, which is going to take about $1 billion out of this province over the next five to six years. The money that is going to be taken out of the province comes primarily from two sources: from the

banks, which this year made well in excess of $1 billion in profit, and from the insurance companies, which are closing in on $1 billion of profit. That is money this province cannot afford to

lose, especially if this government continues its wanton desire to tax those who can ill afford to pay, as they have done with the very regressive health tax.

I also spoke about ending the PST on handicapped individuals and their cars, ending the PST on energy efficiency and the very poor job that was done in

implementing the recommendations of the securities task force of the finance committee.

The Acting Speaker: Further debate?

Ms Laurel C. Broten (Etobicoke-Lakeshore): I'm very pleased to rise and spend a few minutes talking about Bill 149, the fall budget bill, and

I'll be sharing my time with the member for Brant.

I want to focus a little bit on some of the initiatives that have been highlighted in the fall budget bill and then spend a few minutes talking about, at its

heart, why we are undertaking the transformation that we are in this province.

Obviously, the main purpose of the third budget bill is to advance the plans our government outlined in our 2004 budget and continue with the process of

implementing the measures contained in that budget.

The fall budget bill brings forward some specific amendments that I want to highlight today, and the one I want to spend a few minutes talking about is the

amendment with respect to the apprenticeship training tax credit.

Last Friday in my riding I held a job fair, coordinated by my constituency office, working with local business people in the community, working with support

groups that assist those who are looking for jobs. I can tell you, at that session I had an opportunity to talk about the new apprenticeship training tax credit and the work that our government is

doing to focus more impetus on apprenticeship in this province. We received a lot of praise for that work with respect to an encouragement of apprenticeship programs when I had a chance to speak to

people out there.

I'll just talk for a few minutes about what this plan contains. It contains $11.7 million annually by 2006-07, to expand to some 26,000 the number of young

people who will be able to register in apprenticeship programs. And when we talk about what will end up being a deficit of skilled workers in our province, we certainly want to look to the next

generation that can come forward and meet that need.

We also need to remove, and we are as a government working to remove, the cultural and bureaucratic barriers faced by skilled, internationally trained workers

by investing another $12.5 million annually by 2005-06 to work with our professional regulatory bodies to increase access, expand training, provide work with the professional organizations, provide

training and employment services, transition into Ontario's workplace and improve the information that is available to those workers so they'll have opportunities when they come and join our

province.

In my first speech in this Legislature I had a chance to talk about the fact that it was not acceptable to me that we had skilled professionals and skilled

workers in this province who were not able to meet their full capacity, who were driving taxis, who were doing other jobs for which they had much more training than that.

I can tell you that the stark reality of the barriers that internationally trained professionals and workers face in our province was clear to me last Friday,

in my own community, as I held the job fair and had an opportunity to go around to the people who were attending and ask them, "How long have you been looking for a job? Where do you come from;

what country have you emigrated from?" Many, many of the individuals who were there told me long stories, stories that I know we've all heard, about the barriers they faced when they came to our

province. We certainly need to do what we can as a province to make sure that those barriers are diminished.

I want to talk for a moment about another development, and another part of the budget bill, which is the Ontario property tax credit for seniors. With this

bill we will be demonstrating our support for seniors. We have put forward an estimated $85 million in benefits to about 685,000 senior families, which will include approximately 33,000 senior

families that do not currently benefit from this credit. The basic property tax credit will increase from $500 to $625; that's about a 25% increase. Giving them $125 more in their pockets this year

will help the low- and middle-income seniors who live in each of our communities, and they will get those funds each and every year.

The last thing I want to spend a few minutes talking about is why we are doing this. We have embarked on a transformation of our health care system, among

others, in this province. The fall budget bill indicates that we are on track in providing some greater transparency and accountability and a transformation of our health care system.

The need for greater transparency and accountability in our systems across all government was certainly highlighted today by the Office of the Provincial

Auditor of Ontario. He has an entire

chapter dedicated in the auditor's report that is entitled Towards Better Accountability. In his report the auditor makes mention of many investigations he has

done over the years and many indications of areas where he thought improvements needed to be made.

I think we in this Legislature can all be proud that many of the new pieces of legislation that have been brought forward by our government have been

recognized by the Provincial Auditor as responding to concerns he has raised for many, many years. Those include Bill 18,

An Act respecting the Provincial Auditor, which, as he says, is largely

consistent with principles that he put forward suggesting proposed amendments to the Audit Act, opening up recommendations and areas that he will be able to examine further. He indicates that Bill

18 generally addresses the areas of the current Audit Act that he felt required amendment.

Similarly, he talks about the fact that Bill 25, with respect to government advertising, is a positive change and again a response to areas that he has raised

criticism over in the past.

We also put forward pieces of legislation, Bill 86 and Bill 84, which again will increase transparency and accountability and which are currently before the

Legislature.

So those, among compliments with respect to Bill 8 and with respect to the other legislation put forward in the education sector, are highlighted today in the

auditor's report and give us a clear indication of the need for transparency and accountability in our sectors across government. Those are some of the things that we are moving forward with.

The last point I want to make is how proud I was to have Tommy Douglas named as the greatest Canadian. For those of you in this Legislature who have been

perhaps asleep for the last year, you would not know, but I was born in the same small town that Tommy Douglas hails from. Certainly Tommy Douglas is recognized as the greatest Canadian because he

is the founder of something that Canadians value most. I'll just quote a little bit from an

article by Roy Romanow today:

"In the early 1960s, Tommy Douglas and his colleagues combined a clarity of vision regarding health care with a truly uncommon strength of purpose in staring

down the doctors in my province," Saskatchewan.

"Most of the medical establishment clung tenaciously to the status quo. We lived through a difficult and emotional doctors' strike, which, in the short run,

divided our province.

"But Douglas and his colleagues stayed the course. They chose the untravelled and bumpy road to a better future. Today, Canada has medicare."

In that very same article, Roy Romanow, who, as we all know, has spent a lot of time helping us with our health care system, talks about how our government

currently "has an opportunity to write the newest

chapter to strengthen and preserve medicare." I can tell you that I am very proud to be part of a government who will be steadfast, who will have

the clarity of vision that Tommy Douglas had. We will protect medicare for future generations, and I look forward to that day.

I will now share my time with my colleague.

Mr Dave Levac (Brant): I'd like to thank the member for Etobicoke-Lakeshore for sharing her time with me and offering me an opportunity to

make a comment about the greatest Canadian. I just want everyone to know and realize that, with no disrespect to Don Cherry, we had Alexander Graham Bell from Brant, and we also had Wayne Gretzky.

I can't for the life of me figure out how Don Cherry -- with no disrespect -- beat out Wayne Gretzky. Anyway, two out of the top 10 is a great thing to have from our riding. And by the way, we had

a tremendous number of other great Canadians. Dr James Hillier, who's still alive, invented the electron microscope -- unbelievable.

Mr Tim Hudak (Erie-Lincoln): How about Ron Johnson?

Mr Levac: Who? Thank you.

Speaker, I will be very brief in terms of my support for Bill 149. I want to be sure that everyone understands that the bill itself, Bill 149, is not the

be-all and end-all of tax reform; it's not the be-all and end-all of financial and fiscal responsibilit