ROOM 010"i ff~* ~ W^e - of the House of Assembly During the First Session of the Twenty-ninth General Assembly of Newfoundland The Evening Telcgram, Ltd. St. John's. :

Proceedings of the I-louse of Assembly of Newfoundland Session 1949 House of Assembly, St. John's, Newfoundland, Wednesday, July 13th, 1949. Newfoundland's First Provincial Parliament, and its 29tn General Asseimbly, opened this afternoon at three of the clock. The Members took their places as follows: GOVERNMENT The Hon. Joseph R. Smaliwood, Premier and Minister of Eco- nomic Development, Bonavista North. Hon. Leslie R. Curtis, K.C., Min- ister for Justice, Twillingate. FIon. P. S. Forsey, Minister of Supply, Burin. Hon. S. J. Hefferton, Minister of Education, Trinity North. lIon. C. H.

Ballam, Minister of Labour, Humber. Hon. Edward Russell, Minister of Natural Resources, Bonavista South. Hon. James R. Clialker, Minister of Health, Harbour Grace. Hon. James J. Spratt, Minister of Provincial Affairs, St. John's West. Hon. E. S. Spencer, Minister of Public Works, Grand Falls. Gordon W. Janes, Fogo. J. R. Courage, Fortune and Her- mitage. Baxter Morgan, Green Bay. Patrick Canning, Placentia West. 0. L. Vardy, St. John's West. Reg. Sparkes, St. Barbe. Max Button, Trinity South. Samuel Drover, Wlite Bay. George Makinson, Port-de-Grave. OPPOSITION J. G. 1-liggins, K.C., St. John's East.

Frank Fogwill, St. John's East. D. I. Jackman, Harbour Main-Bell Island, R. J. Fahey, Harbour Main-Bell Island. Leonard Miller, Placentia and St. Mary's. INDEPENDENT Peter J. Cashin, Ferryland. At 2.55 p.m., the Sergeant-at- Arms entered the Chamber, carry- ing the Mace, and ushered in the Speaker of the House, Mr. Regi- nald Sparkes, Member for St. Barbe. The Speaker took his seat, and awaited the arrival of His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor.

At 3 p.m., the Sergeant-at-Arms informed the Speaker: "I have the honour to inform you that the Lieutenant-Governor is here to open the House of Assembly." Met by the Speaker, who, with the Clerks, accompanied him to the Speaker's Chair, the Lieuten- ant-Governor entered the Assem- bly and took his place. The Prime Minister (Hon. J. B. Smaiiwoo.

d) then rose to inform His Honour that the House had selected Reginald Sporkes, Mem- ber for St. Barbe District, as its Speaker, and presented him to the Lieutenant-Governor, who accept- ed the new Speaker and congratu- lated him on his high appoint- ment. In accordance with ancient tra- dition, the Speaker, in thanking

4 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEED!NGS His Honour for his acceptance of him, requested of the Crown, through him, the rights and privi- leges historically granted to Mem- bers of the House. These were: Freedom of Speech during Debate, Freedom from arrest while carry- irig out their duties, and the Right of Free Access to the Crown. Replied His 1-lonour: "Mr. Sipeaker, I am pleased to grant your request." His Honour the Lieutenant- Governor then read the following Speech from the Throne: "I am pleased to welcome you to this, the First Session of the Twenty-Ninth Assembly of New- founclland, and the first General Assembly of the Province. "Today you are privileged to take

part in launching Newfound- land upon a new phase of demo- cratic government, and you may be sure that you have the atten- tion of all our people, as well as their good wishes for abundant success in your endeavours. "You meet today for the first tame as elected legislators of the Tenth Province of Canada, and we may assume that our fellow-Can- adians across the nation regard your re-entry into the realm of parliamentary democracy wit Ii sympathetic interest and wish you God-speed in your efforts for the advancement of this rew Pro- vince. I should like to offer you my personal congratulations upon your election.

"Your close attention will be invited to a considerable amount of business which my Ministers will lay before you during the session whith commences today. The Rules of the 1-louse of Assem- bly require resision and amend- ment to provide for more efficient despatch in transacting the busi- ness of the House, and you will be asked to take the necessary action in this respect. My Miin- isters will also lay befor you cer- tain amendments to the Legisla- tive Disabilities Act and to the I-louse of Assembly Act.

"You will be asked to enact legislation providing for the re- organization of certain depart- meots of government.. Amongst the reforms which my Ministers propose are the creation of a De- partment of Public Health, a De- partment of Public Welfare, a Dc- partrnent of Supply, a Department of Provincial Affairs, a Depart- ment of Economic Development. My Ministers attach great import- ance to the creation of this last- named department. "You will be asked to adopt legislation designed to expedite the creation of houses for war veterans.

"In the field of labor and social security legislation, you will be invited to give consideration to Bills affecting workmen's comipen- sation, Fishermen's Insurance, Old Age Pensions, Widowed. Mother's Pensions, a Fisherman's Loan Bank, and a Co-operative Develop- ment Loan Bank. "For the purpose of enabling my Government the more effici- ently to protect the public, you will be asked to enact a Bill to create a Public Utilities Commis- sion, which is designed to furnish long overdue means of control in this important field. "lrrportant changes will be pro- posed in the Alcoholic Liquors Act.

It is now widely recognized I J ?&

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 5 that improvements need to be effected in some taverns where beer and wine are sold to the public, and the legislat:ion which will be submitted to you is design- ed to effect these and other neces- sary inprovcnients. "In line with the policy of my Minister of giving energetic sup- port to the economic development of the Province, and the conser- vation of her natural resources, there will be laid before you pro- posals for the creation of a New- foundland Research and Conser - vation Commission, and for the creation of a Hydro-Electric Com- mission.

The expectation is that men of outstanding experience and ability will be willing to head these two Commissions. "My Government strongly be- lieves in the possibilities of de- veloping a profitable tourist trade in this Province, and there will be submitted for your adoption cer- tain proposals designed greatly to increase the development of that trade. "It is considered that Newfound- land should have her own degiee- ment conferring University, and you will be invited to consider legislation which would confer upon the Newfoundland Memorial University College the status of a University.

It is planned to widen and imiprove the funetion, and thus increase the public use- fulness, of this institution created originally in honour of our illus- trious dead of the First World V/ar. "My Government will seek legis- lative authority to enter into a Tax Rental Agreement with the Government of Canada. "My Government has been oper- ating on the basis of Supply granted by the former Legislature, and you will be invited to make more ample provision for the needs of the Public Service during the current financial year and particularly f or the additional public service which will be pro- vided.

"To these and all other matters which may come before you for consideration, I ask your most careful attention. "I trust that your labour will tend towards the prosperity and well-being of the people of New- foundland and I pray that Divine Providence will guide and bless your work." His Honour the Lieutenant- Governor having left the Cham- ber, at the conclusion of his Speech, the Speaker having re- turned to his Chair: HON. L. R. CURTIS, K.C., (AUorney General): Mr.

Speaker, without desiring to delay the Members of this I-louse to deliber- ate without reference to the im- mediate causes for which it has been summoned, as set forth in the most gracious Speech from the Throne with which His Honour has been pleased to open this session of the Assembly; and pur- suant to Rule 19 of this Honour- able 1-louse, I ask leave, Sir, with the consent of the House, to in- troduce a Bill entitled "A Bill

An Act to Amend

Chapter 4 of the Consolidated Statutes (T h I r d Series) entitled 'Of Legislative Disabilities and the vacation of seats in the House of Assembly."'

6 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS MR. SPEAKER: Is it the plea- sure of the House that the honour- able gentleman has leave to intro- duce said Bill? MR. CASHIN: Mr. Speaker, I regret exceedingly that i have to step in at this time, but it has been customary in the past, with all due deference to your own opinion, Mr. Speaker, that when the Speech from the Throne has been read that before any hills whatever are introducea in this House, that a mover and seconder in reply make their customary speeches, and that a short address be made by the Leader of the Opposition, and I think, Mr.

Speaker, this afternoon, that this is a most unusual procedure. It has been 26 years since I came into this House, and I regret to have to draw this matter to your attention.

In this matter of bills, I take it we would get notice on the Order Paper, but before any notice of bill is put on the Order Paper I would suggest that there be a mover and seconder to the Speech from the Throne, and a committee to draf.t a speech in reply to His Honour's gracious Speech, and that that would be debated and the necessary infor- mation be gathered during that debate in order to enable us to discuss properly this Bill which has been prqposed by the Honour- able the Minister of Justice. HON. JOSEPH H. SMALL WOOD (Prime Minister): Mr.

Speaker, Rule 19 of the House, on Page 6, toward the bottom of the page, says, "Before His Excellency's Speech is reported, some Bills may be read a first time." It is entirely in pursuance of that rule that the Attorney General has re- quested leave to have the first reading of this Bill. MR. CASHIN: I agree, Mr. Speaker, with what the Premier says, but I trust that this Bill is not going to just be read the first, and then the second time this afternoon. MR. CURTIS: Mr. Speaker, I ask that this Bill be now read a first time. MR.

SPEAKER: I would say that in accordance with Standinig Order 19, Newfoundland Standing Orders, this request was made, and since the House has given permission to the honourable member to introduce this Bill, the matter therefore is in order. The question, then, is that this said Bill as announced by the Honour- able the Minister for Justice, re- ceive its first reading. First Reading. MR. CURTIS: I move, Mr. Speaker, that this Bill be read a second time on tomorrow. Motion agreed to. MR.

SPEAKER: I beg to inform the I-louse that at three of the clock today we were honoured by a visit from His Honour the Lieu- tenant-Governor who was pleased to approve of the choice you had made in atppointing me tc be your Speaker. While atten'dnig upon His Honour I did on your behalf lay claim to all the ancient rights and privileges which His Honour has confirmed to us in as ample , - I

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 7 a manner as heretofore they have been granted by his predecessors. Permit me to repeat my most resseetful appreciation to this }{onourable House for the high honour you have done me in elect- ing me to be your Speaker. I have the honour also to inform the I-rouse that when His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor was present in this Chamber today he was pleased to make a Speech to the House of which I have, to prevent mistakes, obtained a copy. Is it your wish that this Speech should be read?

Speech from the Throne read by the Clerk for greater accurracy, BAXTER MORGAN: I rise at this time for the purpose of mov- ing that a committee be appointed to draft an address in reply to the Speech with which His Honour has graciously opened this the 29th Session of the Newfoundland Legislature.

Before doing this, however, I would like to avail my- self of this opiportunity to tender you, Sir, my sincere congratula- tions upon your unanimous elec- tion as the Greatest Commoner in the land, and I have every con- fidence that you will fill that posi- tion with honour and distinction and with credit to this Hou.se, and I have no doubt but that the hon- ourable members on both sides of this House will conduct them- selves in such a manner as will make your duties as light as pos- sible. I should also like to con- gratulate our Leader upon the very substantial majority which he has in this House.

Not only has he a majority in this House, but also behind these Members he has a very large majority of the people of this country, and truly can he be styled a Leader of the people. In this transitional period his task will not be an easy one, but I am sure that it must re- assure him as he looks around knowing that whatever legislation he has in mind for the betterment and well-being of this country will receive a speedy passage through this House.

I should also like to congratulate the Members of His Majesty's Loyal Opposition upon their election despite the odds that were against them, asd I trust that they as well as the Government will, in all their de- liberations, place the interest of Newfoundland and Newfound- landers first. I note that His 1-lonour made reference to the fact that this is the 29th Genera' Assembly of Newfoundland, and the first of the province. We are the oldest Assembly in the whole of Canada, and it is well for us to remember that we inherit the great traditions of the past and that we build on their sure foun- dations.

It is not alone the oldest, it is at the moment the youngest provincial legislature. And I feel sure that at this particular time all eyes are turned on this Cham- ber from the Atlantic to the Pacific, and I trust that we as legislators will conduct ourselves in a way that will bring greatness to the already great pas't of this province. We are enjoying Re- sponsible Government in every sense of the word. This present Government is responsible to the Members elected to the "People's I-louse." It holds office only be- cause it has the confidence of the elected members; it can continue

8 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS to hold office only so long as it retains that confidence, and as soon as it fails to hold that con- fidence it must of necessity go out of office. This is all that is meant and all that could have been meant by the term "Responsible Govern- ment," and this today we enjoy. While this Assembly is a continu- ation of the old, it is also an Asseinhly with a new outlook. We are. now part of the great Domin- ion of Canada; that great bastion of British democracy in Ihe West- ern Hemisphere.

We are proud to call ourselves Canadians, and we are proud to make our contri- bution to the Dominion. We are part of the third largest trading nation in the world, and through our duly elected representatives in the House of Commons of Can- ada we can now play a greater part than ever before in the fain- ily of nations. Who knows but that within the next few ye'ars we may even contribute a Prime Min- ister to the Government of Can- ada. As part of that great Domin- ion and as legislators we must see to it that social services and better living standards in this province are obtained.

Too long have our people been living in isolation. Too long have they been in the backwash of the gieat social security measures that have for years benefitted our brethren across Canada. Too long have we lived under a standard of living lower than that of our neighbours. This is our opportunity to secure for our people their rightful in- heritance. His Honour's Speech may well be referred to as a solvent for social problems. The "People's House" has been called upon to pass laws which will greatly benefit our people. We are called upon to pass laws to reorganize the government depart- ments.

Such organization is long overdue, and when passed will result in a more efficient service. I am particularly pleased to note that it is proposed to set up a Department of Fisheries and Co- operatives. Our methods of catch- ing fish are sadly out of date. It is true that within the past ten years or so we have made great progress in our methods of pro- cessing and marketin.g fish. But it is in the realm of catching fish that we need to make great pro- gress. Our fishermen must have larger boats. They must be able to go and find the flair, rather than wait for the fish to find them.

Modern drying and processing plants must be established so as to cure a catch which will be uni- form. This can best be brought about through co-operatives. At the present time the largest live lobster marketing organization in Newfoundland is carried on on the northwest coast of this Province and is a co-operative. Their efforts have resulted in doubling the re- turn to the fishermen, and through their co - operative consumers' societies they have received a fair return for each dollar earned.

We must safeguard the democratic rights of the people, and one of the greatest safe-guards of our democratic rights is the introduc- tion of dcii ocracy into business. In this way, and in this war only, can the toiling masses of New- foundland become masters of their own destiny. There is to me a very close relationship between

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS labour and co-operatives. Indeed, a labour organization seems to me just one other type of co-operative. Labour organizations try to obtain for their members fair working conditions and fair returns for their labour. They have one com- modity to sell which is labour, and this they try to sell in the most profitable market. Coupled with consumer co-operatives, the lot of the labourin.g people in this coun- try could be greatly improved. At the present time our Work- men's Compensation Act is sadly inadequate. It is merely an em- ployer's liability act.

Legislation providing for workmens compen- sation and fishermen's insurance is long overdue, and it is up to this House to see to it that such legislation gets a speedy passage. There is a crying need for these insurance schemes and any person who has the interest of the toiler at heart will see to it that it is not opposed. Our Old Age Pen- sions are a far cry from what our people were receiving a few years back.

It has been greatly im- proved, but in order to brin.g our Old Age Pensions in line with those in the other Provinces of Canada, new legislation will be necessary, And I am sure that all the Members of this House will readily give their assent to such legislation. Parties in the past have promised time and again that the Public Utilities Commission will be set up. At the present time we have many public utilities operating without benefit of super- vision. Take for example the in- creasing number of bus lines in it is our responsibility to see that the public is protected.

Our elec- tric light and telephone companies operate without safe- guards for the protection of the consumer. These services as well as others, should be placed under the watch- ful eye of a Public Utilities Corn- mission. All parties promised the establishment of such a commis- sion, and it is characteristic of this Party to see that the pledge is kept. During the past we have hoard quite a lot of loose talk in connection with our great natural resources. At the present time we are not quite sure of what these natural resources are. We need less talk and more action.

We must find out exactly what these resources are. We must find out the best and most modern ways of developing such resources. We must entice new capital into this province with which to de- velop these resources. We know that we have in this province a very plentiful supply of water- power. This waterpowcr when translated into hych'o - electric power could very well be one re- source which when properly de- velopc d under a hydro-electric commission would attract new in- dustries to this Province.

Term 32 of the Terms of Union states that the Fedral Government will maintain a ferry service between Porliaux-Basque.s and North Syd- ney. It goes on to say that when the highway between Corner Brook and Port-aux-Basques is complete that a suitable service will be put on the Gulf to make it possible to take motor vehicles this country operating without across the Gulf. This, I feel sure, supervision. Our taxi lines are on will revitalize our tourist indus- the increase, and I am sure that try. In the year 1947 the tourist

10 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS industry of Nova Scotia brought into that country no less than 320,000 people, and an estimated income to the peovince of $25,- 000,000. Now, I happen to know both Nova Scotia and Newfound- land fairly well, and I am abso- lutely sure that we have far more natural tourist attractions in this country than they have in Nova Scotia.

And when that connection is made I feel sure that we will get tourists in tens of thousands, bringing millions of dollars into this country, dollar;s which will be spent on such things as hotel accommodations, guides, souvenirs, gasolene and many other items. The point is that these dollars will not be spent at the expense of natural resources. In this connec- tion I would like also to point out that in Nova Scotia very great pains have been taken to preserve, and in some cases rebuild, sites of historic value, and this has paid dividends in increased tourists in the province.

I should like to commend the work of our New- fcundland Historical Society in this connection, but there still re- mains many things to be done along these lines. It has been said that fish is the most import- ant export of this country. I sub- mit, Mr. Speaker, that from an economic and social viewpoint, our greatest export has been brains. This has been due in a large measure to the fact that we have no degreec:onferring IJni- versity, and our youth must leave the country in order to finish their education. The unfortunate thing about this is that many of them fail to return.

The elevation of the Memorial University Col- lege to the status of a degree- conferring university will go a long way towards remedying this situation. The College was estab- lished under a Liberal Govern- ment; the teacher-training depart- ment, the influence of which, through the teacher, is felt in every town and village in this country, was established under a Liberal Government, and it is well fitting that it should be a Liberal Government which will change the status of the College to that of a degree-conferring uni- versity. Mr.

Speaker, if this ses- sion of the House does no more than implement the proposed legislation contained in His Honour's Speech it will have done more for Newfoundland than any other Assembly. It therefore gives me very great pleasure to move that a committee be appoint- ed to draft an address in reply to the Speech with which His honour has so graciously con;ented to open this session of the Lcgi lature. GEORGE MAKINSON: Mr. Speaker, it gives me a very great pleasure to second the motion of the Honourable Member for Green Bay District; and, Mr.

Speaker, I would like to extend to you hearty congratulations on your appoint- ment to the high office which you now hold. r feel quite sure that you are well qualified to carry on this important work to a success- ful conclusion, and I feel sure that under your able guidance the dignity of this House will be main- tained and the business of this House will be conducted in an efficient and speedy manner. Also, Mr. Speaker, I will ask that you grant me permission to extend to

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 11 our Premier hearty congratu- lations upon his great victory, a victory of which I am sure he must feel very proud. It has been a wonderful victory for the Lib- eral Party, not only in this Pro- vince, but also throughout the whole of Canada. It is no small honour to be the first appointed Premier, and a greater honour to be the first elected Premier of the Tenth Province. I am confident that under his able leadership and with the loyal support of his Min- isters as well as Members of his Government generally that this Island shall prosper.

His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor has been graciously pleased to open this Assembly with a Speech from the Throne. I am sure that many of you will say as I have that you have been insipired by this Speech. It has given us a new sense of security never before felt in this our Island home. I feel sure that we shall have the benefit of good legislation, and with the co-oper- ation of the I-louse as a whole that we shall go forward together and enact wise legislation; go forward together, so that we shall be able to take our place with the other Provinces of this great Dominion of which we now are a part.

How- ever, this does not mean that we have been led into Utopian sphere where all our troubles are over. I am sure that the house will not feel that way. However, it does give us a better chance for a good living for our people which is their right. It is very necessary for both Government and Opposi- tion to work together and pass through this I-louse acts of wise legislation in order that we may have a better chance to have better government for this coun- try.

I sincerely hope that the dignity of this House will be up- held and that old sores and party strife will be forgotten at least for the time being, until we can have an efficient and speedy change-over from the old status to the new. I consider that a pea -- son's true political views, provid- ed they are true, are not for per- sonal gain, may be likened unto his religious beliefs, to be his own sacred privilege, without which we cannot hope to have true de- mocracy. The Speech from the Throne has been fully commented upon by the Member for Gre.en Bay District.

However, there are one or two things which I have to mention. This Speech gives us information about the Bills wihich are to be placed before this House relative to the formation of new departments, such as the Depart- ment of Economic Development, which I consid'er to be one of the most important departments. Then again is mentioned a Bill introduc- mg and providing for a Fisher- men's Loan Bank and a Co-Oper- ative Societies Act.

I understand that this Fisherman's Loan Hank will be more or less to help the fishermen in capital investment so that our fishermen can get to- gether and impirove their lot possibly by building a dragger or a larger boat, they will be subsi- dized by the Federal Government to the exten.t of approximately $165.00 per gross ton. That, as I understand it, will give our fish- ermen a better chance to better themselves, and I feel sure it will do much good for th country gen- erally. As to the Social Security Bills, such as Workmen's Compen- 'r 1,

12 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS sation, the Fishermen's Insurance, Old Age Pensions, and Widows' and Mothers' allowances, I feel sure that these social Bills are something which we have not, at least up to the present time, been in a position to offer to our people. I know that the people of this country are feeling the benefits of some of these social security Bills and will receive greater security as time goes on. There will also be Bills introduced with regard to a Public Utilities Commission, a Conservation Com- mission, as well as a Hydro-Eiee- tue Commission.

These Conimis- sions are already set nip in differ - ent Provinces of Canada at the present time, so therefore we should have such in our Province. We must have these security Bills introduced, and they must be asscci, in order to put us on a parallel with other Provinces in Canada. Now I would mention the tourist trade. In my opinion, and I am sure in the opinion of many others in this House, th tourist trade could be developed into one of our biggest industries. We have everything to offer. We have had millions of dollars of free advertising in recent years.

Never before in the history of our country have we had so many people on our shores from so many different places. Not only from the great Dominion of which we are now a part, but also from all narts of the United States. I feel sure that with good aceomeno- dation and good roads cur tourist trade could be developed to a very great extent. 1-lowever, be- fore we can derive the full bene- fits of Confederation we must have a road across the country and a ferry on the Gulf. This would give work, badly needed work, for our people, and in so doing shall save the giving of relief. For without work, Mr.

Speaker, this Government of ours shall have to find relief. Then there is the matter of a Univer- sity, g the raisin of the Memorial University College to the standard of a University is long, long over- due. It is very unfortunate that in the past the youths who would be our leaders of tomorrow have had to leave our shores and to go to the mainland in order to re- ceive higher education and de- grees. Here in this Tenth Pro- vince I feel that those under- privileged at the present time, for financial reasons, who are unable to leave these shores to receive higher education, will be given, a chance.

Provided this Bill goes through the House. of Assembly, I feel that a great good will have been accomplished. I have great pleasure, Mr. Speaker, in second- ing the motion of the Honourable Member for Green Bay District that a committee be appointed to draft an address in reply to the Speech from the Throne. J. G. HIGGINS, K.C., (Leader of the Opposition): Mr. Speaker, I take this opportunity of con- gratulating you upon the great honouj which has been bestowed upon you in electing you to this high office of this House of Assembly.

I know, Sir, that you will keep the tradition that has been made by the great Speakers of the past from the day when first we received Representative Govern- ment to the hour, when, as we may say, legislative independence

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 13 of Newfoundland ceased. I am sure, Sir, that, knowing you as I do, knowing you for many years, you will lceep that great line of tradition. This House of Assembly has seen wonderful Speakers and wonderful Members, men of in- tegrity and decency and honesty, men who have been fearless enough to face the lion in his den, the Douglas in his hail on any occasion when authority betook itself to infringe upon the rights and privileges of this House. The Speaker and Members never re- fused to face that authority with fearlessness and won their point.

This House of Assembly through- out the years has viewed many wonderful scenes and done extra- ordinary work for this great coun- try of ours—great, I may say, not in sense of wealth or anything of that kind, but great in the people themselves, for the people of this country are a fine people. It is unfortunate that correspondents have been sipre ading broadcast about the poverty of this country and giving an impression that the people of this country are de- graded.

Sir, Canadian members of the Armed Forces who were here during the war and mem- bers of the United States Army know well enough that the people of this country were never de- graded. They spoke of them in the very highest way; they were people who had religious ideas, probably because they kept in front of them the injunction in our Coat of Arms, "Quaerite Prime Regnum Dei"—"Seck ye first the Kingdom 0f God"—for there is no clasis in the world less criminal than our people. It would be a truism to say that these people would divide their last crust of bread with you.

The people who write about this country speak about poverty; let them speak only of the poverty of the funda- mentals. I take this opportunity of congratulating the worthy mover of the Address. For a maiden effort it was a great suc- cess. It was very well delivered, very clear and very concise, and I am sure that a speech of that kind foreshadows many speeches in the House by him.

He is one of the coming young men of the House, and I trust everything he touches he will ad'orn, for I feel sure that his effort has shown everyone present that he is cap- able of producing very much better and very nuch greater speeches in the future. To the seconder, I offer congratulations, not alone on the very good speech that he has made, but also on the fact that he is present here. We are told that the brains leave this country. I fear that is the fate of all the eastern provinces of Canada. I am afraid that the halycon days have not come to us under Confederation in that re- spect.

The inhabitants of Nova Scotia have been boasting how many great men they have sent to other parts of Canada; they sent their people there because it is a bigger place; and while I would like to see all Newfoundlanders stay here, I am afraid we shall still finds the exodus going on in spite of our University. It is grand• indeed to have a University here. But the worthy mover has spent many days on the Arctic wastes of Canada and amid the snow and the sun doing duty as a member of the R.C.M.P., and I am glad that now in his declining days—but, Mr. Speaker, I should A

14 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS not say that; rather should I say that in his early middle age, after having retired from the R.C.M.P., having done his duty, he finds it worth while to come back to the land of his birth, where I hope we all of us will stay; and if we do ever happen to go up to the mainland as Prime Ministers of Canada, or as Attorney Generals of Canada, or in the Senate, I hope that we will come back to spend our last days in this coun- try, and be buried in one of the cemeteries here.

I hope, Sir—but I do not wish you an early death yet—but I hope you will stay long enough to leave your bones in a part of your native country. We have not been supplied with a ccpy of the Address yet, Mr. Speaker, and we cannot speak on it. I hope and trust that when adjournment comes it will be to a date that will supply sufficient time to give us a chance to peruse and digest the Address so that we may be able to find some faults with it, if necessary, or at least be able to discuss it intelligently.

I would ask then that when the adjournment is made by the Hon. the Prime Minister, he will make the adjournment to a sufficient day so as to give us time to digest the various matters set out in the Address. MR. SMALLWOOD (Prime Min- ister): Mr. Speaker, I would like to add my voice to the chorus of congratulations extended to you on your election by this House as its Speaker for at least the next five years—or five or ten years; how much longer will depend, of course, upon the next few general elections.

As the honourable the Leader of the Opposition has said, you occupy a position which has been held by some of the out- standing figures in our parliamen- tary history. This Legislature was opened today by His Honour the Lieutenant - Governor, Who was once himself Speaker of the House of Assembly. Amongst the very distinguished visitors in the Cham- ber today was the Flonourable Mr. Justice Winter, himself a former Speaker of the House. But I like to think of you as one who occu- pies the position once occupied by that greatest, I think, that great- est figure in all our Newfound- land history, the late great Dr.

William Carson, who was Speaker of the House of Assembly. A great tradition established and carried on by great men, by great New- foundlandeis, amongst whom we must number a common fisher- man in the person of the late W. F. Penney of Carbonear. A great tradition which, Sir, I am quite confident will be more than main- tamed by your Honour.

I would like to offer my own personal congratulations, and I feel that I speak for the whole House, to the Members who moved and second- ed the motion for the appointment of a committee to draft the Address in Reply, the honourable Member for Green Bay and the :honourable Member for Port-dc- Grave. We are rather proud of the average of infoimation, ability, speaking ability, that we have on this side of the House.

I am not over-looking the fact that we are confronted by gentlemen whose names have gone down already in the history of Newfoundland for their great ability as speakers, but at the same time wo are very proud that we have here beside

HGUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 15 me a group of men, who, I be- lieve, could take their places prol- ably in any legislative chamber of the North American Continent, excepting only, perhaps, the Sen- ate and I-louse of Commons of Canada, and the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America; and these two mombers who have spoken are amongst the best, but not alto- gether the best, I think they would admit, that we have in these ranks to the left of your 1-lonour. I would like at the same time to offer our congratulations to the hcnourable the senior member, I suppose I should say, for St.

John's East, upon his appointment as Leader of the Opposition, Par- liamentary Leader of his Party in the I-louse.

You would not expect me to agree with the ideologies of the hononrable gentleman, but I can say quite sincerely that most of us on this side who know him, admire him, admire his staunch patriot- ism, Newfoundland patriotism, love of Newfoundland, love Ci Newfoundland history, tradition, folklore; and if I personally had the selection of the Leader of the Opposition I think that the h -on- ourable gentleman would have been my choice, and I hope that the 'hon oura:ble gentleman oppo- site sees nothing sinister in that remark.

I am sorry that the hon- ourable gentleman has not follow- ed the custom of the House in commenting upon the remarkable character of the Speech from the Throne, on the fact that it was "remarkable more for what it did not contain than for what it did." The ghosts of the past must have a worried look at this serious omission, because it must surely be the first time since 1855 that a House has been opened by a Speech from the Throne without the Leader of the Opposition tell- ing us that it was remarkable more for what it did not contain than for what it did. MR.

HIGGINS: I presume we will have time for that next week, Sir. MR. SMALLWOOD: The oppor- tunity, Mr. Speaker, is gone, and gone forever. To ma;ke such a remark on the opening day is where it properly belongs. It would be my duty to reply to the Leader of the Opposition in any criticisms of a cursory nature he might make of the Speech, but since I see he has in fact madre none, my duty has become a very pleasant one. May I express the hope, Mr.

Speaker, and I know that I speak for all my colleagues, that in the next few weeks and years, despite the hard-fought electoral battle a few weeks ago, despite the inevitable, perhaps natural, bitternesses that develop- ed upon the election., the joy on this side of winning and perhap 1s the disappointment on the other at losing, despite these and other things, we may collaborate closely as parties on both sides of the House, in an effort to make this Newfoundland a better place for Newfounjciia-uders.

I know that it must be the hope of the gentlemen on the other side, as it is of those on this side, that as a result of our term of office in this Chamber, whether on the Government or Opposition s-ide, Newfoundland and Newfoundianders will, be better; and that is about all I l

16 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS might, I think, properly say at this stage, Mr. Speaker. The motion for the appointment of a committee to draft the reply to the Address from the Throne was then put and carried, and the following committee appointe d: Baxter Morgan, George Makinson, John G. Higgins. MR. SMALLWOOD: Mr.

Sipeak- er, I give notice that I will on to- morrow ask leave to introduce a Bill entitled "An Act Respecting the Department of Eeonum;ic De- velopment" and a Bill "An Act Respecting the Department of Fisheries and Co-operatives" and a Bill "An Act to Amend the Old Age and Blind Pensions Act, 1949" and a Bill "An Act to Amend the Giasolenc Tax Act, 1949" and a Bill "An Act Respect- ing the Deiportiment of Public Welfare" and a Bill "An Act Re- spectinig the Department of Public Health," MR.

CURTIS: I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a Bill entitled "An Act Further to Amend the Co-oper- ative Societies Act, 19392" I also give notice that I will on tomor- row ask leave to introduce a Bill entitled "An Act Respecting the Department of the Attorney Gen- oral." I further give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a Bill entitled "An Act Respecting the Department of Provincial Affairs." I further give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a Bill en- titled "An Act Further to Amend the Crown Lands Act, 1930." I further give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a Bill "An Act to Amend

Chapter I of the Consolidated Statutes (Third Series) entitled "Of the Promulgation and Construction of Statute's." MR. CASHIN: Mr. Speaker, permit me at this time to give notice of a few cuestions to be placed on the Order Paper for the next session:

(1) Hon. the Premier if it is the intention of the Government to introduce legislation at the present session of the House es- tablishing Dc:partment of Welfare, Home Affairs, Supply, Labour, Co-operatives, and the Premier's Dopartment. Also if monies have been expended by these Depart- ments during the past three months; from what funds and under what authority have such monies been expended?

(2) Hon. the Premier to table a Statement showing the total amount of money expended by his Department since April 1st, 1949, to date; to whom these monies were paid and on what authority such expenditures were made?

(3) Hon. the Premier to lay on the table of the House an expla- nation of the duties of the Min- isters of Home Affairs, Labour. Supply, Welfare, and Co-oper- atives.

(4) I-Ion, the Premier if Pro- fessor Allan Fraser is at present in Ottawa discussing with the De- partment of External Affairs the possibility of union of the four Maritime Provinices. If so, who is paying his expenses and is he there at the request of the Domin- ion Government or any of the other Provincial Governments in- volved? S

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 17

(5) Hon. the Premier to lay on the table of the House a State- ment showing the number of Gov- ernment employees (exclusive of Railway empioyees) who have been transferred to the Federal Government payroll, the number who have been retained by the Provincial Government (exclusive of school teachers) and the num- ber who are now out of work be- cause of the transfer of Newfound- land to Canada.

(6) Hon. the Premier if any arrangements or contracts have been entered into by the Provin- cial Government of Newfouri d!land with the Federal Government of Canada for the completion of the highroad across the Province of Newfoundland. If such contract or undertaking has been made, give details of the project.

(7) Hon. the Premier to table a Statement in full of the discus sions he had with the Premiers of Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and Prince Edward rsland during his recent visit to Canada, and if such visit was for the purpose of dis- cussing the possibility of the union of the four Provinces as outlined in his press conference at Moncion on July 5th. In fact, give the House full details of the business of Newfoundland brought up at these conferences. Table a Statement showing the amount of the cost of this particular trip to the mainland and if the other Provinces contributed in any way to the expenses incurred.

On what authority was this particular visit to the mainland obtained? If the sugges'tion came from other Provinces or was it an idea of the present Provincial Government of Newfoundland?

(8) Hon. the Premier if the Provincial Government of New- foundland has purchased "Canada House" on Circular Road from the Federal Government at Ot- tawa, If so, what price has been paid for the property? On the other hand, if the property has not been purchased by the Gov- ernment, what rent will be charg- ed the Provincial Government for the use of this house as Offices and Premier's residence? Is "Can- ada House" intended to be the official residence of the Premier of the Province of Newfoundland?

(9) Hon the Minister of Fi- nance to table a Statement showing the actual financial position of the Bank of Canada. This information to iniclude the amount of notes outstanding aigainst the Rank; as well as the gold reserves held by the Bank against such note issue.

(10) Hon. the Minister of Fi- nance whether, under the Terms of Union with Canad:a, New'found land is further financially involv- ed as guarantor of the Bond Issue of approximately two million (£2,000,000) sterling granted the Paper Industry at Corner Brook now known as Bowater's New- foundland, Limited, or whether such liability now is taken over by the Federal Government at Ottawa.

(11) Hon. the Minister of Fi- nance to table a Statement slow- ing in detail the outstanding loans against the Provincial Govern- menit held locally, as well as the Sinking Fund against each loan. This information to include War Savings Certiftcates.

(12) Hon. the Minister of Fi- nance to table a Statement show- ing the present standing of the

18 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Newfoundland Savings Bank. Also to inform the House if the rates of interest being paid depositors in the Newfoundland Savings Bank are being changed; as well as give a detailed Statement of the securities held by the Bank against such deposits. And fur- ther, to advise the House of the present standing of the Sinking Fund of the Newfoundland Sav- ings BanJk; where the Sinking Fund is being held and what securities comprise the Sinking Fund?

(13) Hon. the Minister of Fi- nance to give a Statement of the Revenues and Expenditures of the Provincial Government of New- foundland from April 1st, 1949. to June 30th, 1949. Further what these Revenues and Expenditures are, to be given under the various headings.

(14) Hon. the Minister of Fi- nance to table a Statement show- ing the actual amount of National Debt of Newfoundland taken over by the Federal Government of Canada on March 31st, 1949, as well as a Statement of the Sinking Fund established in the United Kingdom in 1937,

(15) Hon. the Minister of Fi- nance to table a Statement shewiieg the amount of loans granted to the various com panies operating in NewCoo' land, which loans were to be used for the encouragement or expan- sion of the fishing industry. Give the amount of loan to each indi- vidual company, the rate of inter- est uhich is to be paid the Gov- ernment by each particular com- pany; the names of the directors of the companies concerned: also state whether any particular com- pany is in arrears of interest and if so, what action has been taken by the Government to collect such interest?

In addition, give a Financial Statement of each com- pany to date; also what security, if any, each particular company has given the Government as col- lateral for the loan advanced? Further, to inform the House for what period these loans have been made and if sinking funds hra been established by these par- ticular companies to protect the Government?

(16) Hon. the Minister of Fi. ance to table the following in- formation:

(1) What balance of available cash stood to the credit of the Exchequer Account of Newfoundland in the Banks of l'fewfoundland on March 31st, 1949?

(2) What outstanding amounts were clue the Newfound- land Government in the way of interest-free loans to Britain as at March 31st, 1949?

(3) Have these loans been repaid to the Provincial Government; or has any effort been made to collect these monies? If not, wh' not?

(4) What monies were due the Provincial Government on March 31st, 1949, in the way of sterling credits caused by the financing of fish sales during the past two years by the Newfoundland Gov- ernment? Have these sterling credits been repaid in dollars by the Canadian Government or the British Government? If not, when can we anticipate payment?

(17) Hon. the Minister of Fi- nance if any legislation will be enacted establishing a Department of the Auditor General in New- foundland under Provincial Gov-

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 19 ernment; who is to be the Auditor General and who is at present performing the duties of the Auditor General for the Provin- cial Government of Newfound- land?

(18) Hon. the Minister of Fi- nance to table a Statement show- ing the total revenues obtained by the Board of Liquor Control since April 1st, 1949, to June 30th, 1949. Is it the intention of the Government to make any change in the present administration of this Department and if so, what is the proposed legislation?

(19) Hon. the Minister of Fi- nance to table a Statement show - ing in detail the total amount of the financial surplus of the New - foundland Government as at March 31st, 1949; as well as to inform the House whether or not one-third of this surplus has been set aside on deposit with the Gov- ernment of Canada as provided for under

Section 24, sub-section (

a) of the financial terms of Union with Canada.

(20) Hon. the Minister of Fi- nance to table a Statement show- ing in detail the various amounts received or due the Newfound- land Provincial Government by the Federal Government of Can- ada. Have these amounts been paid the Newfoundland Govern- ment? If not, why not?

(21) Hon. the Minister of Fi- nance to table the following in- formation: Referring to Page 5 in the Estimates of Revenue and Eypenditure prepared by the late Ccmmissio.n of Government, give a detailed statement of the Revenue of $20,470,800.00 under the heading "Finance"; also de- tailed Statement of the Revenue of $2,858,000.00 for Public Health and Welfare. And also to explain how, for the year 1949-50 the Revenue for the Board of Liquor Control is shown as $3,700,000, whilst the Revenue for the previ- ous year was but $1,500,000.

Is it proposed, in view of this, to enact legislation involving over 100% taxation on future sales of the Board of Liquor Control in Newfoundland? Under the head- ings of "Expenditures' table a detailed Statement showing under the Depiartment of Public Works as Expenditure of 6,656,000.00.

(22) Hon. the Minister of Fi- nance if either during the month of April or May, 1948, Mr. J. B. MeEvoy, K.C., apiplied for and received through the Foreign Ex- change Control Board the sum of $3,000.00 U. S. fund's? If he re- ceived such an amount, for what purpose did he require such a large amount of American funds, and table a Statement accord- ingly.

(23) Hon. the Minister of Fi- nance to lay on the table of the I-louse a Statement showing the actual subsidies to be received each year from the Federal Gov- ernment of Canada under the various headings. This is not to include Transitional Grant.

(24) Hon. the Minister of Fi- nance what amount was paid by the Federal Government for the Newfoundland Broadcasting S'. tern?

(25) Hon. the Minister of Fi- nance to lay on the table of the House a Statement showing the Revenues and Expenditures under separate headings for the fiscal

20 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS year 1948-49. Also this inf or- mation would indicate total amount of Capital Expenditure incurred for that period.

(26) Hon. the Minister of Fi- nance to inform the House what is the intention of the Government in connection with the operation of the affairs of the Newfound- land Hotel? To table a Statement showing the financial position of the Newfoundland Hotel as at March 31st, 1949; as well as the Revenues and Expenditures of the Newfoundland Hotel from April 1st, 1949, to June 30th, 1949. Have any negotiations taken place be- tween the Provincial Government of Newfoundland and the Canad- ian National Railways with respect to the transfer of the Hotel to the Canadian National Railways?

(27) Hon. the Minister of Fi- nance to table a Statement show- ing the amount of Capital Expen- diture incurred by the Province since April 1st, 1949, to June 30th, 1949, giving details as to the expenditure incurred.

(28) Hon. the Minister of Fi- nance to lay on the table of this House a Statement of the finan- cial position of the St John's Housing Corporation at the pres ent time—that is to say, what amount of money is owed the Newfoundland Government by the St. John's I-lousing Corporation; if further advances are to be made that Corporation to complete that project or is a proposition under consideration to take over this whole nroject by the Federal Gov - ernment? Also give a Statement showing the Revenue and Expen- diture of the Housing Corporation at the present time; also inform the House who is chairman of the Corporation and give the names of the other members of the Cor - poration.

(29) I-Ion, the Minister of Fi- nance what advances have been macic by the Newfoundland Gov- ermuent to housing projects out- side the City of St. John's; what amount of money has been cx- pended on such a project and have any nayments been made against the principal by such cor- poration?

(30) I-Ion, the Minister of Fi- narcec' to lay on the table of the House for the information of the country generally, a Statement showing the actual cash position of the Province of Newfoundland as at June 30th, 1949. That is to say:

(1) Cash in the Bank of Mon- treal or other Canadian Bank in St. John's; or in the Newfound- land Savings Bank.

(2) Amounts due by the British Government to Newfoundland.

(3) Amounts due to the Province of Newfoundland by the Federal Governmen.t of Canada.

(31) Hon. the Minister of Fi- nance if the Federal Government has paid to the Provincial Govern- ment of Newfoundland any por- tion of the first year's Transitional Grant winch amounts to $6,500,- 000.00? Also, has the Federal Government at Ottawa paid to the Provincial Government of New- foundla nd non-recurrinig revenues amounting to $7,906,500? (Shown on Page 4 of the Commission of Government Estimates for 1949- 50). If this amount has not been paid, when will it be paid?

(32) Hon. the Minister of . Fi- nance to lay on the table a State- ment showing how the amount of $1,112,400.00 outlined as 'Dis-

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 2 charge of Accounts Payable at date of Union" is made up. Also how it is proposed to expend 4,136,800 on the "Development of Resources and Expansion of Existing Services." (33) lion, the Minister of Fi- nance to table a Statement show- ing the total amount paid Sir Gordon Macdonald as salary and allowances during his term of office in Newfoundland.

(34) Hon. the Minister of Fi- nance to lay on the table of the House a complete Statement for each year beginning with the year 1937-38 and ending March 31st, 1949, of the Sterling Sinking Fund established by Act of Parliament in 1933 against the 3% Guaran- teed Stock which amounted to £ 17,795,000. Give the infor- mation for each year as to the amount of the Sinking Fund both in sterling and in dollars; how the Sinking Fund was invested. If it was used to purchase the 3% Guaranteed Stock; why was it not deducted from the principal of the national indebtedness each year?

If surplus cash each year over and above the amount used for the purchase of 3% Guaran teed Stock was available, how was it invested and what int,erest was obtained? in other words, give a complete Statement, each yea], which would be provided the Finance Department by the trus- tees of the Sinking Fund. Name the trustees.

(35) Hon. the Minister of Fi- nance to table a Statement of the present standing of the 31/2% loan due 1950 amounting to £562,- 796, 3s. Also present standing of 3/2 % loan clue 1953 amounting to £ 302,731, 18s, id. It is Imown that during the year 1944-45 £800,000 was set aside for the redemption of both these loans at 2½ % interest, and the infor- mation now required is what will be the balance due when the loans become matured?

(36) Hon. the Minister of Fi- nance to table a copy of the Auditor General's Report for the year 1931-32.

(37) Hon. the Minister of Na- tural Resources to lay on the table of the House the following information:

(1) Is the Bowater Paper Company cutting any pulp- wood for export during the pres- ent season?

(2) Under the terms of Union with Canada, is the Bo- water Paper Company to be sub- jected to the imposition of regular Corporation taxes by the Federal Government at Ottawa?

(3) Will the Provisional Government of Newfoundland continue to receive the $150,000 annual payment in- stead of Income Tax as outlined in the original Agreement with the Company?

(38) Hon. the Minister of Natural Resources to lay on the table of the House a Statement showing the rates of wages paid the loggers and other workmen in Newfoundland as well as a Statement of the rates of wages paid for similar work in the pro- vinces of Ontario, Quebec, British Columbia, New Brunswick and Nova Scotia.

(39) Hon. the Minister of Natural Resources to lay on the table of the House a Statement showing any amendments to the Bowater Paper Co., Ltd., Aee- ment of 1937; to give the reasons why such amendments were made, , L ,,

;')'. 22 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS particularly with respect to the financial Agreement. Also to lay on the table of the House a far- ther statement showing the total amount of pulpwood exported under the original Agreement; saying whether the Agrcemeit is being carried out to the letter in this resipect; and if not, has the Company paid the Government the lines which are imposed under such Agreement?

(40) Hon. the Minister of Natural Resources to table a Statement showing the earnings and expenditures of the Claren- yule vessels, separately, for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 1949; as well as the earnings and expenditures from April 1st, 1949, to 3unc 30th, 1949. What is the policy of the Provincial Govern- ment concerning the future oper - ation of these vessels? Are they now being operated by the Rail- way on the comniission basis or by the Dqpartment of Natural Resources?

(41) Hon. the Minister of Natural Resources an:dlor Labour is it true that at the last meeting of the Woods Labour Board the two operating pulp and paper companies in Newfoundland made efforts to reduce the wages paid to their various workmen, and if so, what stes the Provincial Gov- ernment of Newfoundland is tak- ing to see that no reduction in wages takes place in these oper- ations?

(42) Hon. the Minister of Public Health to table the Aucdtor Gen- eral's Report covering certain dis- crepancies in the Department of Public T-Ieaith and Welfare alleged to have taken place a few years ago; to give the total amount of such discrepancies and to inform the I-louse whether or not any action has been taken by the Gov- ernme.nt to bring those respon- sible for such discrepancies to justice.

(43) I-ion, the Minister of Public Works to table a Statement in fail showing all controcts given the Concrete Products Co., Ltd., for construction of highroads; the amount per mile changed for such construction and if this company is now performing work for the Government. Table cojies of all agreements covering the various contracts and advise the House if tenders were called for the con- struction of these roads or were such contracts merely negotiated between the Government and the Concrete Products Co., Ltd.?

(44) I-Ion, the Minister of Public Works and the Minister of Natural Resources to table a Statement of all monies paid for machinery, equipment and spore parts to the Newfoundland Tractor & Equip- ment Co., Ltd., from 1934 to date. Also inform this House whether tenders were called for in connec- tion with this business and if not, why not?

(45) Hon. the Minister of Public Works, if a special Tourist Burea1 is to be set up as reported in the daily press, and if so, is the posi- tion of Tourist Traffic to be awarded to the lady who now con- ducts the business of that Depart- me:nt most efficiently, or is an- other individual to be .ppointed to the position to supersede the other official, and if so, why such change is taking place?

(46) Hon. the Minister of Home Affairs whether or not Mr. J. B.

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 23 MeEvoy, K.C., was paid by the Commission of Government for his services as Chairman of the National Convention. Ii he was paid, how much did he receive and hw many days did he sit as Chairman of that Convention?

(47) Hon. the Minister of Home Affairs to lay on the table of the House a Statement showing how $100,000 was spent in connection with the Provincial Election. Also to lay on the table of the House a detailed statement showing how the amount of $200,000.00 is to be spent covering "Provincial Legis- lature, Remuneration of Ministers and Members, Allowances to Lieu- tenant-Governor and other costs." Is it understood that the Lieuten- ant-Governor is to receive a special allowance from the Pro- visional Government as outlined in these Estimates? If so, to in- form the House whether such procedure is followed in the other Provinces of the Federal Union.

(48) Hon. the Minister of Home Affairs to inform the House whether it is the intention of the Provincial Government to provide the services of a chauffeur and orderly for the Lieutenant-Gov - ernor of the Province as outlined in the Estimates of Expenditure for 1949-50.

(49) Hon. the Minister of Home Affairs to inform the House whether it is the intention of the Provincial Government to con- tinue the services of the Public Relations Officer and staff at a cost of nearly $5,000 to the Pro- vincial Treasury; and what are his duties?

(50) I-Ion, the Minister of Home Affairs to table a Statement show- ing the amount paid through his Department for expenses, motor cm's, chauffeurs and other help on account of Sir Gordon Mac- donald durin.g his term of office in Newfoundland.

(51) FIon. the Minister of Jus- tice if he has received a letter from Mr. W. J. Browxie, K.C., hIP., recently, enclosing another letter addressed to Mr. Browne from certain Liberal supporters in St. John's West. If so, to table copy of the corr.esponaenee and advise this House of the action, if any, which, has been taken by his Department in connection with this particular matter,

(52) Hon.. the Minister of Jus- tice to table all correspondence in connection with negotiations between the Newfoundland Gov- ernment and the Labrador Min- ing Company, Ltd., since this particular mining company was incurporated in Newfound4and in 1937. To advise this House what legal firm conducted the negoti- ations on behalf of the Mining Company; what legal firm is now representing the Company. As well as to advise the House as to why the ten cents a ton royalty on all ores produced was cancelled and a 5 0/- Profit Tax substituted therefore.

In fact, table all cor- respondence in connection with this particular proposition. Also if the Labrador Mining Company, Ltd., is incorporated under New- fo:indland laws; who are its direc- tors; what is the paid up capital, if any, and where the Head Office of this Company is located in New- foundland.

(53) I-ron. the Minister of Edu- cation to table Staten ent showing how the amount of $61,500 under the heading "Travelling and Sub- "k

24 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS sistence" 1948-49 was expended; giving the details showing the amount each individual received. Also if these monies were expend- ed on thavelling outside of New- foundiland, did the persons ex- pending such monies make any reports to the Department and if so, table copies of such reports.

(54) Hon.. the Minister of Edu- cation to lay on the table of the House a Statement showing the salaries and allowances paid to the professors and teachers of the Memorial lJmvcrsity Coilege. Also include in this statement any pay- ments which may have been made to individual members of the Board of Governors of this Uni- versity.

(55) Hon. the Minister of Edu- cation to lay on the tab]e of the House a Statement showing the total amount of money expended for the purchase of equipment and accessories, film and negative stock; together with documentary film of Newfoundland; as well as to whom payments were made for such purchases.

(56) I-Ion, the Minister of Edru- cation to lay on the tabie of the House a Statement showing how the amount of $240,000 under the heading of "Grants for Denomi- national School Services" 1948-49 was distributed. MR. SMALLWOOD: Mr. Speaker, I move that the House adjourn to Thursday, at three of the clock, and would assure the Leader of the Opposition that there is no necessity to commeiice tomorrow the debate on the Address in Reply. That debate cannot begin until the committee apipointed has drafted the Address and brought it before the House. When that will be, of course, I cannot say.

The Leader of the Opposition is himself a membe of the committee, and the House will be in the hands of the com- mittee as to when they bring their report before us. Adjournment taken. Thursday, July 14th, 1949. The I-louse met at three of the clock. The Speaker announced the names of members of the follow- ing committees: Select Committee to Revise the Rules of the House Hon. Mr. Speaker. J. R. Courage. Attorney General, Hon. Leslie R. Curtis, K.C. Minister of Public Health, Hon. James R. Chalker. Patrick Canning, J. C. Higgins, K.C. Foank Fobiwill. Internal Economy Committee Hen. Mr. Speaker. Hon. the Premier.

Attorney General, Hon. Leslie R. Curtis, K.C. Minister for Finance, Hon. H. W. Quinton, C.M.G. J. R. Courage. The Library Committee I-Ion. Mr. Speaker. Gordon W. ,Tanes. Samuel Drover. PatriCk Canning. Leonard Miller. • •• , , / • , -' . - 0

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 25 HON. J. H. SMALLWOOD (Prime Minister): Mi. Speaker, I do not know whether it is under this heading, but I would like to table the accounts of the St. John's Municipial Council for the year ending December 31, 1948, to- gether with the report of the Auditor General thereon. MR. CASHIN: Mr. Speaker, might I at this time suggest that the Notice of Motions of Ques- tions and the questions to be asked be placed on the Order Paper. It is a long time since we had a House of Assembly and it will take us a little time to get into the run of things.

The same comment applies to second read. logs. MR. SMALLWOOD: Mr. Speaker, we have tried to secure copies of all the Order Papers, without suc- cess. If the honourable gentle- man from Ferryland happens him- self to possess any old copies of Order Papers or any other mem- her or any member of the public, we shall be very hapipy to have them so that in printing our own —arranging and printing our own Order Paper for this Legislature we could follow the old form as closely as possible.

Up to the moment we have not been able to find a copy of an old Order Paper, and have therefore been obliged to do a certain amount of extemporihrg and generally to conform as far as we knew how and as far as the Rules and text- books would suggest is the proper form. MR. SPEAKER: This is true. Major Cashin, I would like to say in justice to the Clerk that we followed Page 12, Standing Order 45. That is, 3, Giving Notice of Motion and Questions, and No. 4, Asking and Answering Questions, that is, next, Asking and Answer- ing Questions. MR. CASHIN: Mr.

Speaker, re, garding the questions that are on the Order Paper, the answers usually are that they are in course of preparation by the various de- partments. I would suggest that the answers to auestions, which are very, very necessary should be prepared with all possible speed; those that are concerned with the financial situation at the present time especially, and I hope that they will prepare them speed- ily. While I am on my feet, Mr Speaker, I would like to point out that there are no copies of the Speech from the Throne. We should have had copies of the Speech from the Throne this after- noon.

That is the old custom. I am not coimplaininig, Mr. Speaker, because this is all new. I think they should supply us with copies because the matter will have to come up for discussion. MR. SMALLWOOD: Mr. Speak- er, contrary to the oipinion of the member from Ferryland, we have replies to some of the questions which I shall be very glad to give. No. 1, addressed to me: No, there is no intention to introduce at this session legislation establishing a Department of Labour, Depart- ment of Co-operatives or the Premier's Office.

There is the in- tention, announced in the Speech from the Throne, to introduce legislation establishing the other departments mentioned. N o moneys have been expended by the Department of Co-operatives,

26 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS for no such department exists. With regard to the other deiparti moats and the Premier's Office,. moneys have been expended dur- ing the last three months from dapartmental supplies or D-2, Head 4, of the Department of Home Affairs. No. 3. There are no Ministers of Supply or Co-operatives. The other Ministers mentioned admini- ster the deipartments of which they are the heads. No. 4. The Government has no knowledge that Mr. Fraser is in Ottawa or that he is discussing with the Dp'artment of External Affairs the question of union of the four Maritime Provinces.

The remainder of the question there fore does not arise. No. 6. The answer is in the negative. MR. CASIUN: What about No. 5? 1-lave you the answer to that? MR. SMALLWOOD: No. Nos. 1, 3, 4, No. 6, and now No. 7. No. 7. It is not in the public interest to table the statements in full of the discussions I had with the Premiers of Nova Scotia, New Brunswick or Prince Edward Island, or to give the House full detail's of the business of New foundland brought up at these! conference's. The cost to New founiciland of my visit was $175.00, of which I may say $148.00 repre sented return fare by T.C.A..

The visit was exceptionally cheap be cause some of the Premiers were kind enough to provide for my accommodation at the best hotels, and I may add, the best suites in the best hotels. My decision to, make the visit was taken by me with the knowledge and consent of my colleagues. No. 8. The Government has rented from the Government ol Canada the building known as Canada House. The rent payable is $100.00 per month. The portion of the building used formerly for offices will in future be used to provide accommodation for th offices of the Premier and the Dqpartiment of Economic Develop ment.

The part used formerly as a residence has been let to l\fr, J. H. Smaliwood as a private resi dence, and he will pay $50.00 per month rental to the Government. There is no intention that Canada House or any part of it shall be used as an official residence of the! Premier. No. 9. The Government has no knowledge of the financial positioii of the Bank of Canada. No. 10. The answer to both parts of the question is in thd negative. MR. CASHIN: Are the answers to any of the questions written? MR. SMALLWOOD: yes, I am tabling them in the Honse. No. 17.

It is not contemplated that legislation will be introduced to establish a Department of the. Auditor General, but we will be happy to announce any change there may be in the personnel of the Auditor General's Departhien.t The position of Auditor General is at present held by Mr. L. G. Machim. MR. CASHIN: Mr. Speaker, with your permission, I 'would like to ask—in connection with the office. of the Auditor General—am I to understand the Auditor General olw - . . ' . . ' . . .. . .; ' . -. . •. ..

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 27 was employed by the British Gov - ernment to audit the accounts of the Commission of Government? MR. SMALL%VOOD: Before the Commission of Government went out of office, Sir, they arrenged to re-engage the services of Mr. Machim as Auditor General. We pay him to the end of toe current calendar year, that is, I believe, to the end of December. MR. SPEAKER: Your wish then, Major Cashin, is that the reinain der of the question be deferred? I would like to say for the infor- mation of the House that the Speech from the Throne is in the hands of the puinter. lION. L. R.

CURTIS (Attoriley General): Mr. Speaker, Major Cashin has asked me a question, No. 51. I have received no letter from W. J. Browne. I have re- ceived through the mail anonym- ously, and as the letter is not by Mr. Browne to another indi- vidual, and it is Probably the letter to which he refers, but as that letter was sent to me anonym- ously, an das the letter is not addressed to me 1 do not feel it would be in order for me to pub- lisli it. MR CASHIN: The letter is not addressed to the Minister of Jus- tice? MR. CURTIS: Not to me, MR. CASHIN: Not to you? MR. CURTIS: No.

He wrote the letter to somebody else, and sent me a copy of it, but there was no covering letter. I presume it came from him. I do not know from whom it came. MR. CASHIN: He did not write it to you. MR. CURTIS: It was not address- ed to me. The second question, Mr. Speaker, I may say I know nothing about the matter what- ever. MR. CASHIN: What is that? MR. CURTIS: No. 52. MR.

SPEAKER: I may say that No. 51 came to me rather unexpect- edly, or we would have been forced to rule it out on the ground that it related to matters outside the House, and did not relate to any bill or any motion or any business before the House, Second Reading: MR. CURTIS: Mr. Speaker, I rise for the purpose of moving the sec- ond reading of this Bill, but before doing so, Sir, I would like to join with the other members wb" spoke yesterday in extending to Your Flonour our sincere congratu- l.ations upon your election as the First Commoner of the Land.

We know, Sir, that you are well quali- fied to fill the position. We know that you will fill it with distinc- tion and we know that you will pass over the office unsullied at the expiration of your term to your successor. We hope, Sir, that you will personally enjoy very much the honour to which you have been called. This Bill, Mr. Spealer, is a Bill,

An Act to Amend

Chapter 4 of the Consolidated Statutes (Third Series) entitled "Of Legislative Dis- abilities and the Vacation of Seats in the House of Assembly." This

28 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Act, I might say, Sir, is contained in the Consolidated Statutes 1916. It has been amended time and time again. I have not gone back beyond 1916 but since 1916 it has been amended on eleven different occasions; in 1917, again in 1918, second amendment in 1918, again in 1920, again in 1925, then again in 1926; in 1927 it was very con- siderably amended, in 1929 it was amended again, in 1932 it was further amended, in 1933 there were two amendments. So you see, Mr. Speaker, this is

an Act which is more noted for its amend- ments than for its original con- tents. You will notice, Mr. Speak- er, that when this House met yes- terday, on Monday, there were three vacancies on the Government benches: the Hon. Mr. Keouigh, the Hon. Mr. Quinton, and the Hon. Dr. Pottle not being present. These gentlemen felt that they should not sit until their personal position was clarified. When the present Government took over of - fice from the Commission of Gov- ernment we found that in the in- terval many of the Government Departments had been altered.

We found that the Department of Na- tural Resources had been created, and that the old Department of Agriculture and the old Depart- ment of Marine and Fisheries had been incorporated into it. We found that the Department of Pub- lic Utilities had been created to embrace the former Department of Public Works. We found that the Department of Public Health and Welfare had been organized, and that it was under the control of its own Commissioner.

The object of the Government, Sir, coming in, was to take over the reins of of- fice from the Commission of Gov- ernment with as little disturbance as was absolutely necessary. We therefore proposed to retain the post of Commissioner of Natural Resources, and to that Department we appointed my colleague, Mr. Keough. We decided also that we would retain the Department of Public Health and Public WeLfare, but we felt that this Department was far too heavy for one man.

The Government had in contem- plation extending very consider- ably, as you know, pensions for the old and pensions for the blind, and we felt that the Department of Public Health and Welfare under one Minister was giving that Minister far too great a responsi- bility. We therefore, in order to dislocate things as little as possible, created a Minister for Health and a Minister for Welfare, and divid- ed the Department between these two gentlemen by Order-in-Council, pursuant to the Terms of Union, which applies to the law of New- foundland.

Section 13 of these Terms reads: "Until the Legislature of the Piovince of Newfoundland other- wise provides, the powers, au- thoriities and functions vested in or imposed on any member of the Commission of Government, of Newfoundland, as such mem- ber, or as a Commissioner charged with administration of a Department of the Government of Newfoundland, at or immedi- ately prior to the date of Union in relation to matters coming within the classes of subjects by the British North America Acts, 1867 to 1946, assigned exclusive- ly to the Legislature of a pro- vince, shall in the Province of Newfoundland be vested in or

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 29 imposed on such person or per- sons as the Lieutenant-Governor in Council may appoint or de- signate." The Governor-in-Council desig- nated the Minister of Health to take over the responsibility for cer- tain parts of the Public Health and Welfare Act. The Governor- in-Council also appointed the Min- ister for Welfare to take over cer- tain other parts of that Act. We also credited, Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Supply to take over the work of the Supply Department of the Department of Public Utili- ties and Supply. We found after- wards, Mr. Speaker, that proceed- ing as we did, the Ministers ap- pointed were obliged to contravene the provisions of

Section Two of

Chapter 4 of the Consolidated Sta- tutes. We are not sure that they have contravened this Section, which reads as follows: "The above

section shall not apply or extend to or include or in any way affect the following persons, that is to say:

(1) The persons who may respectively hold the offices of Attorney General, Colonial Secretary, Minister of Finance and Customs, Solicitor Gen- eral, Minister of Agriculture and Mines, Speaker or Deputy Speaker or Chairman of Com- mittees of the House of Assem- bly, Minister of Public Works or Minister of Marine and Fisheries." That was the original list pub- lished and set forth in the Con- solidated Statutes, but since that list was made out other names have been added; the Minister of Militia was added; the Minister of Ship- ping, the Prime Minister, the Mm- ister of Posts and Telegraphs, the Minister of Education, and there have been several other additions from time to time, so that it would take a lawyer some considerable time to find out who is not includ- ed in that list, which is the list of exemptions to the provisions of

Section 1 of the Chapter. How- ever, it seems, Mr. Speaker, quite definite that the Minister of Health is not included, and that the Min- ister of Welfare is not included, and one of the main objects of this Bill is to amend this

Section of the Act, take out these names, and sub- stitute in place of them all the few words, "Any person holding office as a Minister of the Crown." Now, we did not propose, Mr. Speaker, to name the present Ministers of the Crown, because during the pre- sent session the names of several of these Ministers will be altered. For instance, the Minister of Fi- nance and Customs has ceased to exist; in future he will be the Min- ister of Finance. The same is true with the Minister of Home Affairs; he will cease to be the Minister of Home Affairs and become the Min- ister of Provincial Affairs.

There- fore, it is more or less impossible at the moment to detail the various names that the Ministers may have in two months' time. We there- fore proposed, and in this Bill make provision for the use of the words, instead of all these words, to use the words, "Any person holding office as a Minister of the Crown" and then we continue with "The Speaker, the Deputy Speak- er," etc. I may say that in doing this we followed the wording of the Dominion Elections Act,

Section 20 of which names the persons who in Canada are exempt from the provisions of this Act. I might

30 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS just quote the

Section of that Act, Mr. Speaker, "The provisions of this Sec- tion shall not render ineligible, (

a) The member of the King's Privy Council holding the recog- nized position of Prime Minister, or any person holding the office of President of the Privy Coun- cil, Secretary of State for Exter- nal Affairs, Minister of Justice, Minister of Finance, Minister of Mines and Resources, Minister of Public Works, Postmaster Gen- eral, Minister of Trade and Com- merce, Secretary of State of Can- ada, Minister of National De- fence, Minister of National Health and Welfare, Minister of National Revenue, Minister of Fisheries, Minister of Labour, Minister of Transport, Minister of Agriculture, Minister of Re- construction and Supply, Min- ister of Veterans' Affairs, Solici- tor General, Parliamentary Sec- retary, Parliamentary Tinder- Secretary, or any office which is hereafter created to be held by member of the King's Privy Council of Canada." They include in the last line what I propose in this case, Mr.

Speaker, with the consent of the House, to substitute in the place of all these names. I may say, Mr. Speaker, that each of the members concerned went to his District as a certain-named Minister and was elected as such Minister. The second amendment to this Bill deals with the director of Bowater's Pulp and Paper Mills, Ltd. Originally there was a pro- vision whereby any member of the Government might hold office in the Newfoundland Power and Paper Co., Ltd. as the Government Director. Subsequently the Act was amended to have included the Director of the International Power & Paper Co.

Since Commission of Government came in that has been changed to Bowater Company and the amendment in Paragraph 3 pro- vides for the change of name so that the Government may be able to appoint a Director of Bowaters. During the year 1927 there was a general amendment made to the Disabilities Act which made it un- necessary for any new administra- tion formed after any General Elec- tion to have its members - the members of the Government—go back to the country for re-election. I think my friends remember that provision which was made in 1927. At that time there was, as you know, Mr.

Speaker, a House of As- sembly and a Legislative Council. Now we have just the Flouse of Assembly, and no Legislative Council, and the Government feels that, though there may be no need from our point of view, for the amendment, the time has come when we might, for once and all, cut out that provision of niakh;- it necessary for ministers to go back for by-election. If some of my learned friends on the other side would join the Government to- morrow as Ministers with portfolio, I think it would be most embar- rassing and most unfair for them to have to go back.

In any event, the practice has been in the past to pass the necessary legislation to avoid the necessity of their going back, and that is the reason for all these amendments to which I have just referred; eleven of them in the seventeen or eighteen years from 1916 to 1933. For that reason

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 31 we have rewritten

Section 3 of the Act, and the only change is to wipe out that clause which begins "and who being at the same time a member of the House of As- sembly, shall resign his office and within six months after such resignation accept of any other of such offices; unless the ad- ministration in or under which he held such office shall have resigned and a new administra- tion shall have been formed and shall has occupied any said of- fice." We are suggesting, Mr.

Speaker, that those words be stricken out and that instead of naming the various offices which are mention- ed in the Act we have just these words: "Any person holding office as a Minister of the Crown and the persons who may respectively hold the offices of Speaker or Dep- uty Speaker or Chairman of Com- mittees of the House of Assembly or the member of the House of Assembly holding the recognized position of Leader of the Opposi- tion." I would say, Mr.

Speaker, we have added the Leader of the Opposition because the Govern- ment has under consideration the question of following the procedure in other countries and allowing him a remuneration for his ser- vices, and in such an event I am not sure he would be allowed to accept any emoluments without go- ing back to by-election, since he did not go to the country as Lead- er of the Opposition. I would move, Mr. Speaker, the second reading of this Bill. I think I have made its provisions quite clear to the honourable members, but I would be glad to answer any ques- tions that members see fit to ask.

I move the second reading. MR. CASIUN: Mr. Speaker, I take it this is a question of cx- penditure—.what is this going to cost? I have no objection to this Bill; I remember the 1927 Act dis- tinctly, but we are starting off anew- MR. SMALLWOOLJ: Mr. Speak- er, may I interrupt? I wonder if the member for Ferryland - we have no official Hansard report ers; the record of the remarks made here are being transcribed electrically.

Since yesterday's ses- sion the member for Ferryland, I find, is farther removed from us than he was then, which leaves the unfortunate situation that he is quite a distance removed from the nearest microphone, which is the only way at present of recording his remarks for posterity, or for the benefit of this House, and I wonder if he would mind—I know he can—raise his voice a little so that the nearest microphone would catch his remarks. MR. CASHIN: The point is, Mr. Speaker, before we have more ministers of the Crown, we have got to know where the money is going to come from to pay thenn.

This Government has just recently taken over from the Commission of Government, and I feel that, in justice to the House, and in jus- tice to this Province, that the Gov- ernment should lay their cards on the table and show us the actual financial position of this Province a'; it actually existed on April 1, 1949, before we start voting money away, because this really means voting money. Now we do not know how much money was hand- ed over on April 1st by the Com- mission of Government; we do not know how much was spent up to

32 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS the present time. We know no- thing whatever about it. We do not know how much money is owed the Government. We do not know what our assets are. We do not know what our liabilities are. The Commissioners ran the country for fourteen or fifteen years, handed it over to an Interim Gov - ernment, and I think the Govern- ment owes it to itself and to the other members of the House and to the country.

In my opinion, at any rate, as an independent mem- ber of the I-louse, the first thing that should be done here is to lay on the table of this Rouse the ac- tual financial position, of Nw- foundland as it existed on March 31st, 1949, before we start passing any legislation which involves ex- penditure, so that we know where we stand; because all these things have got to be paid for, and taxa- tion of some sort or another has got to he brought in to pay these expenses.

I have no objection to this Bill, no objection whatever, but I think one of the first things we should have before we pa'ss this legislation is a statement—an auditor's statement, if you will, to tell us the actual financial position of Newfoundland on April 1949, when the Government was taken over by the Hon. Mr. Small- wood, before we pass these Acts altogether. MR. CURTIS: Mr. Speaker, I would like to say that it is pre-. cisely for some such purpose that we would like to have this Bill put through, because my friend, Mr.

Quinton, does not feel like sit- tng in the House while his own position is in doubt, and therefore it is my intention this afternoon to try to get this legislation through so that Mr. Quinton and Dr. Pottle and Mr. Keough might be in their places to assist the House. MR. CASHIN: Mr. Speaker, in reply to the honourabie Minister of Justice, that when this legisla- tion goes through, if it goes through, if the Committee and third reading of this Bill goes through, that the Government are prepared to lay on the table of the House the actual financial po- sition of Newfoundland as it exist- ed on April 1st- MR.

SMALLWOOD: Mr. Speak- er, a member may speak only once or second reading, and I think I will do that now. The information sought by the member for Ferry- land will be tabled just as rapidly as the departments concerned or the officials can gather, compile and type it, without any evasion or qualification; just as rapidly as it can reasonably be done, without dropping all other work.

It is the duty of the Government, and of every department of it, to furnish the House—not the Opposition, the House, of which the Oppsoition members are a part—with all conceivable information to which the House is entitled, nothing else, and to do so with all reasonable speed. The answer therefore is that we are not waiting actually for these ministers to be able to take their places properly and without any doubts or hesitation in their own minds, to prepare that, because it is being prepared now in the various departments.

But obviously it requires the pre sence of these ministers to explain verbally anything which is not en- tirely comprehensible' in the writ- ten replies. Now, just one other point—I think it ought to be said

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 33 at the very outset, because one of the questions tabled yesterday, or of which Notice was given yester- day—deals directly with, and if it does not deal with sufficient directness, undoubtedly there will be other questions, affecting such matters as the rate of indemnity to members of this House; the rate of salary for •Minister of the Crown, the rate of salary for offi- cials of the House, the Clerk, the Assistant Clerk, the Solicitor, Ser- geant at Arms, the pages, the mes- sengers and doorkeepers, and the question of additional indemnity- il that is what you will call it- for His Honour the Speaker; the question of an additional indemni ty for the Leader of the Opposi- tion, if we are to follow the uni- versal practice throughout North America, the practice of recogniz ing the special importance in the scheme of things of the Leader of the Opposition and the fact that lie has additional duties over and above those of the ordinary mem- ber of the House as the Leader of His Majesty's Loyal Opposition, an integral part of Parliamentary life.

If we are to do all these things, and table, as we must, this information, I think perhaps it would be as well if it were to be made clear now that virtually all these things will cost the Public Treasury of Newfound] and almost nothing—almost literally nothing, perhaps indeed literally nothing; the fact being, that, as in the case of other Provinces making up the Union, so here we will receive an- nually from the Government of Canada, an amount of money to- talling, I think, speaking from memory, $180,000 for the support of government and legislature, and always provided the total ex- penditure on the Government, that is the members of the Govern- ment, as salaries, of the members of the Legislature as indemnities, to the various officers and serv- ants of the Legislature as salaries, do not amount to more than $180,_ 000 a year, including also station- ery, printing and newspapers, ma- gazines and books, and the ordin- ary expenses that always go with the Legislature, if these do not in the aggregate total more than $180,000 a year, we will have the position where our Legislature, and indeed our Government, cost the Public Treasury of Newfound- land exactly nothing.

If they to- tal a sum in excess of $180,000, then, all paraphernalia whçich a former Minister of Finance I think, called "The trappings of an elephant on the back of a mouse" will cost the people of Newfound- land whatever it does cost net over the sum of $180,000. I doubt very much whether we will be by quite a small margin.

We will have the ir appiness of hearing the Govern- ment of Canada say: 'We will con- tribute $180,000 a year towards the cost of your Government and Legislature," and I think our aim should be to keep, if reasonably and practically possible, within the limit, but if it has to go ov'r then to go as little as possible over that annual grant received £ or these purposes. MR. CASHIN: Thank you. Mr. Speaker, I know this is my third offence, but the main thing I am after is this financial statement, which I feel the Government should have tabled in the House before we went on with any busi- ness whatever. D. I.

JACKMAN: Mr. Speaker, somebody here a few minutes ago

34 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS —I do not know exactly who it was—stated that these Ministers went before the country. I would like to ask a question, by what au thority did these, Ministers go be- fore the country? It is only now we have an elected governnrent. This Interim Governs tent—this so - called interim Goveinment- was by appointment. The people of Newfoundland had no chance to say who was going to be Minis ter of this or Minister of that or Minister of something else.

In my District, the people of Harbour Main and Bell Island let it be known to the people of Newfound- land that they did not want the Minister of Supply in their Dis- trict. This Government is a Re- sponsible Government elected by the people; not like the Comniis sion of Government as in the past, when it was run by seven men, and seven good men; and this is going to mean that the people of Newfoundland are going to be asked to add six more to it, a total of thrrteen, and I say with all re- spect that we have no right to nake that decision.

If these men are going to accept these jobs, let them go to the people, and let the people decide whether they want them or not. Second reading adopted. MR. CURTIS: Mr. Speaker, I was wondering if my learned friends in the House would give their unanimous consent to have this Bill com.mitted forthwith.

It might possibly save their coming back here tomorrow, because if we could get this Bill through all stages today I think I might sug- gest to the Premier that the House on its rising do adjourn until Mon day, when all the members would be present and we could get down to business. 1-lowever, I am in the hands of the House. If the I-louse will give its unanimous consent I would ask that the House resolve itself into a Comnuttee of the Whole forthwith, but in the aix sence of that I would proceed with the other Motion. MR. CASHIN: I have no objec- tion to letting the Bill go into the Committee of the Whole.

In con- nection with the Speech from the Throne, since the Consmittee has been appointed to draft a Reply to the Speech from the Throne, I suggest that the debate on the Speech go in the Order Paper on Monday. MR. SMALLWOOD: Mr. Speak- er, I appreciate the attitude of the member for Ferryland, but I think he is just slightly mixed there- just slightly. The debate on the Ad- dress in Reply, that debate can be- gin only when the Address in Re- ply itself is brought in here.

The committee appointed yesterday has to draft the Address in Reply to the Speech from the Throne, and that is the occasion of the debate; the presentation of that Address in Reply, when the Committee brings it in.

Now with regard to the other point, I have already undertaken, and I repeat the undertaking, that all accounts, not only our Provin- cial accounts to which the honour- able member referred specifically, but all accounts, will be tabled here just as soon as the officials in the departments can gather the inform- ation together and get it typed and deliver it to us; but the fact is that yesterday these questions were given notice of; to-day at a few minutes to three, just a few min- utes before the House opened, this

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 35 Order Paper was received back from the printer and we had to have the actual questions. To my own knowledge the clerks and soli- citor of the House were until one o'clock this morning getting the vo- luminous Bills of the two sittings ready, and the Order Paper for to- day is all very new to virtually everyone in the House, so that it would be probably by about this time when I am speaking that the questions will reach the various departments. That will be appreci- ated.

I might suggest, indeed, that we might follow the practice of the National Convention in tabling questions, to table three copies. You see, Mr. Speaker, if I might point out this fact, all questions are to conform to certain condi- tions. Opinions must not be ex- pressed in them; they must be straight - forward questions for straight-forward information; in- formation must not be given in them; they must be just what their name implies - just questions. They must not reflect on His Hon- our the Lieutenant-Governor, His Majesty the King, on the persons of Ministers, and so on, and so on.

There are quite a number of condi- tions surrounding the asking of questions. Well, when questions are tabled naturally they go through the test, through the Speaker and through the law officers of th I-louse as to whether they arr' parliamentary form.

When the House rises, say at 6:30 in the day, by the time that has been done it is probably the following day be- fore the questions are directed to the departments to which they re- late, and then it is hardly to be ex- pected that the minute they are in the office, if it is a busy office, that the Deputy Minister, if he has con- ferences—some of these men are extremely busy—will drop every- thing else to prepare the answers.

In the case of Finance, the Deputy Minister or the Secretary as it is still called, until we change it by Act, is actually on the mainland of Canada at this moment, so that the Finance Department has no head at this moment. MR. CASHIN: There is a man there who can do just as well. MR. SMALLWOOD: We have an excellent man there in Mr. Chan- fling, who is extremely good, and I think probably one of the coming men of the public service of New- foundland. MR. CASifiN: Mr. Hickey is there, too. MR. SMALLWOOD: Mr. Hickey is there too.

The long and short of the matter is that we are trying to be reasonable as reasonable can be, in conformity with the reasonable attitude of the member for Ferry- land. This information will be brought in, without any evasion, equivocation or delay, just as radid- ly—we do not say we are going to do a thing when we are not going to. We want things done with speed and efficiency from the depart- ments, but we do not want to dis- locate the public service. Import- ant as we are here in this House, the public service must go on, and consistent with that we will have the information here.

Now, if we adjourn until Monday it will give the different departments, to-day, this is what?—Thursday; Friday, and Saturday, and perhaps Monday morning, so that by Monday after- noon we possibly should have the answers to virtually all these questions. In addition to that, the gentlemen on the other side of the k

36 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Rouse will have more time in which to read and study the Speech from the Throne, and possibly by then the committee appointed yes- terday will have brought in its Ad- dress in Reply, and then we should be ready on Monday to get down to business and carry forward with- out any delay. Motion re Suspension of Rule 261. Carried. COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE. named. The Attorney General's set-up in Canada is different, but we have always had these safe- guards here, and I think we should continue to have these safeguards.

I think eleven or twelve too many ministers, but the other point is very much more important, and if it is the intention to have these ministers in the Disabilities Act they should be specially named, not personally named I mean, but by the name of the office they hold. The Speaker leaves the chair, THE CHAIRMAN: You are mov- and Mr. Courage takes Chair of ing this as an amendment? Committee. MR. HIGGINS: There is one very serious aspect to which I would like to draw attention. I feel that cleven or twelve gmernment depart- ments are too many.

Very likely the civil service will be increased very largely, but the most import- ant thing of all is that this is giv- ing the Government the right to create any further ministerships that they may wish. In the olden days here there was always a pro- vision put in which prevented the Government from increasing the number of ministers, and that is because in each and every case there was an amendment to the original Act, the names of the min- isters who would not be under dis- ability were especially named- that is, the Attorney General, the Colonial Secretary, or whatever the office is.

At the present moment, if this Act is passed, the Govern- ment will have the right, without infringing on the Disabilities Act, of adding any number of minister- ships that the Government wishes. That is a serious aspect of the ease, and it is my opinion, and I suggest that the names of the ministers who are going to be brought in now under this Act should be specially MR. HIGGINS: As an amend- ment, yes. MR. CURTIS: I would like to say, Mr. Chairman, in reply to my learned friend, that just at the moment we cannot name these ministers.

If he feels that the Government is likely to step over the traces I should certainly be ver.y glad to fall in line with his request, but at the moment we do not know the names of the minist- ers whose offices we are going to create this year, and I think we might arrange to bring in a fur- ther amendment; in fact eventually we might bring in a brand-new Act because this Act is very old-fash- ioned. I notice other countries have much more modern ones. I would assure the honourable member that it is not the intention of the Government to take advantage of this section. As a matter of fact I consider this

section the better way of doing it rather than to have a lot of names there. For instance, I think the Attorney General, whn name is in this Act—it is our in- tention to do away with the office of Minister of Justice, and that Min- ister will be known as the Attorney General, because that is the prac-

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 37 tice tluough Canada, in the case of provincial ministers, and the names of the various ministers are as it is now dealt with. I would ask that we carry on as we are, with the assur- ance to my friend that we have no intention of asking the House to give us those powers he mentioned. I can quite see the point he makes. I think the Leader of the Opposi- tion can trust us not to take ad- vantage of the Act in the way he suggests. LEONARD MILLER: Mr. Chair- man, I can sympathize with the position of the Cabinet.

The Deputy Finance Minister is in Canada and cannot answer questions and the Minister of Natural Resources can- not attend to answer questiocs to that Department. I sympathize with the position, and I am sure that it would expedite the business of this session to have this matter taken care of right away.

In consequence of that I was wondering if, and in view of the fact that the Premier has told us that his Cabinet will not exceed twelve men, that if some reference could be included in the amendment there "Any person holding office as a Minister of the Crown, provided that the number of these Ministers will not exceed 'twelve." I do not want to impede the progress of this Bill, and I do not agree with making a law which will go beyond this present Cabinet. Nit. SMALLWOOD: The sugges- tion of the member for Placentia- St. Mary's is that

Section 2, sub- section (1) should read, "Any per- son holding office as a Minister of the Crown" then in brackets "pro- vided that the total number be not greater than twelve." Does that meet the Leader of the Opposition's point, too? MR. CURTIS: That would read "Ministers of the Crown will not exceed twelve in number." MR. SMktLLWOOD: The mem her for Bonavista South draws at- tention to the fact that you will need the same change at the bot- tom of page 2, third line, third line from the bottom. MR. HIGGINS: (Reads) "Any person hiolding office as a Minis- ter of the Crown, subject to" so and so. MR. CURTIS: Mr. Chairman, X might suggest, in

Section 3, and not in

Section 2, because

Section 2 deals purely with candidates for election. The appointments to office are covered in

Section 3, so that I think if we put that provision in

Section 3, it would be enough. There is no need to have it in Sec- tion 2, So I think, if the members of the Opposition would agree to omit any amendment here we will put the amendment they suggest in in

Section 3, which deals with ap pointments made before the House of Assembly and after election. MR. HIGGINS: "The number of Ministers shall not exceed twelve," that will be put in

Section 3? MR. CURTIS: We will put that in

Section 3. There is no need of it in

Section 2. (First three section's passed). Clerk reads

Section 4. (Re re- peal of

Section 3 of old Act). MR. CURTIS: After

Section 3 put sub-paragraph 1, and then we /

38 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS will add sub-paragraph 2 to cover the point raised by the member for Placentia. (Bill passed Committee). Committee rose, reported having passed the Bill with some amend- meiats. Mr. Speaker returned to the Chair. MR CURTIS: I move, Mr. Speak- er, with the unanimous consent of this House, that this Bill be now read a third time. Bill passed Third Reading. MR. SPEAKER: No. 6 on the Order Paper MR. SM%1LWOOD Mr. Speak- er, will we take them one at a time? I move that a bill 'An Act Respecting the Department of Eco- nomic Development" be read a first time. Bill read a first time.

Ordered to be read a second time on tomor- row. MR. SMALLW000: I move the first reading of a bill 'An Act Re- specting the Department of Fish- eries and Co_operatives." Bill read a first time. Ordered to be read a second time on to- morrow. MR. SMALLWOOD: I move the first reading of a bill 'An Act to Amend the Gasoline Tax Act, 1941." Bill read a first time. Ordered to be read a second time on to- morrow. MR. SMALLWOOD: I move the first reading of a bill "An Act to Amend the Old Age and Blind Pensions Act, 1949." Bill read a first time. Ordered to be read a second time on to- morrow. MR.

SMALLWOOD: I move the first reading of a bill "An Act Respecting the Department of Public Welfare." Bill read a first time. Ordered to be read a second time on to morrow. MR. Sl%IALLWOOD: I move the first reading of a bill "Mi Act Respecting the Department of Pub- lic Health." Bill read a first time. Ordered to be read a second time on to- morrow. MB.. CURTIS: Mr. Speaker, I would like to point out before pro- ceeding with these Bills, that in the Order Paper I do not think it is correctly put down.

These are Motions asking leave to intro- duce Bills as set forth, and I pro- pose therefore in my Motion to follow the form as it should be. In other words, I ask leave now to introduce a Bill "An Act Further to Amend the Co-operative Sod- ties Act, 1939." My Motion is to ask leave to introduce that Bill. - Bill read a first time. Ordered to be read a second time on to- morrow. MR. CURTIS: Mr. Speaker, 1 would ask leave to introduce a Bill entitled "A Bill

An Act Re- specting the Department of the At- torney General." Bill read a first time. Ordered to be read a second time on to- morrow.

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 39 MR. CURTIS: I ask leave, Mr. Speaker, to introduce a Bifi entitled "A Bill

An Act Respecting the De- partment of Provincial Affairs," Bill read a first time. Ordered to be read a second time on to- morrow. M1. CURTIS: I ask leave, Mr. Speaker, to introduce a Bill en- titled "A Bill

An Act Further to Amend the Crown Lands Act, 1930." Bill read a first time. Ordered to be read a second time on to- morrow. MR. CURTIS: Mr. Speaker, Z now ask leave to introduce a Bill entitled "A Bill

An Act Purther to Amend

Chapter I of the Conso- lidated Statutes (Third Series) en- titled 'Of the Promulgation and Construction of Statutes'." Bill read a first time. Ordered to be read a second time on to- morrow. MR SMALLWOOD: I think, Mr. Speaker, that that concludes the Order Paper for today, and I con- sequently move the adjournment of the House until tomorrow, Mon- day, if that is satisfactory to the gentlemen on the opposite side. MR. HIGGINS: Mr.

Speaker, be- fore this motion for adjournment is put I would like to make one request, with your permission, Sir, and that is, that Acts of Parlia- ment are difficult things to decide, and sometimes it takes a long time to find out exactly the meaning of certain sections. Now, if these Acts could be published and put in our hands as soon as possible, we will have some time to digest them and find out exactly what is in the Act in question.

Coming here to the House and having the Act put in our hands just before it is discussed puts us in a very awkward position, if we had three or four dsys to go over the Acts—after all, three or fou.r days for some Acts is alto- gether too short a time, but I think if we got them in our hands to- morrow we would have the week- end to go over the Acts. There are quite a number here. MR. SMALLWOOD: Mr Speak er, the Leader of the Opposition will, of course, appreciate that this particular Bill is rather excep- tional and having gone through three stages in one day, is a lot of compression.

Ordinarily there would be a clay for second reading, another different day for Com- mittee of the Whole, and still another day for third reading. There will not be the kind of compression there was today, but copies of the Bills as printed will undoubtedly be available to the Leader of the Opposition just about as rapidly as thy come from the hands of the printer. I think—I am not too sure— that by statute Bills and Acts must be printed by the King's Printer, which in the case of a number of Acts is quite a congestion in the one printing office.

Nevertheless they are doing the best they can, and just as rapidly as these Bills come from the hands of the printer they will be made avail- able to the Leader of the Opposi- tion so that we can have ample time to consider them before the actual debate on them begins in the I-louse. Of course, the Leader of the Opposition does appreciate that under the Rules of the House a Bill must be printed in time for

40 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS the second reading. For the first reading it can be merely in inanu script of type-written form, but for seencl readying it must be printed, so that if the second read- ing of a Bill is to be given on the day following its first reading there is then only the time be- Iween the first reading and the eecond to have it printed. So there is not usually—as a matter of a fact, if, for initanjce, today we give first reading, as we have done, to a number of Bills, it is only following that that we can place the order with the printer to have them printed in time for second reading.

In this case we are having a long adjournment until Monday. That will give time to everyone concerned to study the Bills in question, but if we than Monday, the printed Bills than Mondan, the printe4 Bills would be laid on the desks of every member tomorrow when the House opened at three o'clock. Then when the second reading came, which is the debating stage, most members would have had very little time to digest the Bills. But within these limits, physical limits set by the Rules—Rule 205- MR. HIGGINS: 268-265 or 268, page 48. MR SMALLWOOD: "Al.l Bills shall be printed before Second Reading", 268, page 48, yes.

Due to that, of course, there is some little difficulty, but I think per- haps we can overcome that with good w.11 and some efficiency. You can always postpone the second reading, you see; you do not have to have the second read- ing on the day following the first. MR. HIGGINS: Oh, no. MR. SMALLWOOD: My motion is that upon its rising the House do adjourn until three o'clock on tomori-ow, Monday, Mr. Speak- er. Adjournment taken to Monday, July 18th, at 3 of the clock. Monday, July 18, 1949. The House met at three o'clock. No. 2 on Order Paper. HON. L. H. CURTIS (Minister of Justice): Mr.

Speaker, before No. 2 is proceeded with, I might say that His Honour the Lieutenant-Gov- ernor is willing to come here at half past three to-day to give As- sent to the Disabilities Act, which we passed through all its stages yesterday, but on going through the manuscript we notice that by a mistake in the enactment clause, it states, "The Governor and the house of Assembly" and not the "Lieutenant - Governor and the 1-louse of Assembly." I think that is .a change that should be effected, and with the consent of the House I move that this House now re- solve itself into a Committee to consider and amend that Bill in that particular.

It is simply a case of writing the word "Lieutenant" before the word "Governor." I would move that the I-louse resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole, with the consent of the House. MR. CASHIN: Mr. Speaker, in connection with that Bill, do I take it that after this Bill is passed and the change made, we are going to have the presentation of the report of the Select Committee appointed to draft the Reply to the Speech from the Throne?

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 41 HON. J. R. SMALL WOOD (Prime Minister): Yes. The House resolved itself into Committee of the Whole,. MR. CASHIN: Mr. Chairman, I was absent from the House the other day. I think there was an amendment of some sort, or a change made in that Act to the effect that the Ministers would not exceed twelve. Is that correct? MR. SMALLWOOD: Yes. MR. CASIIIN: Because, why I mention it at this time is because I take it from what I have heard that we are going to have twelve Ministers of the Crown, and twelve people who occupy positions of trust and emolurnent, and twleve Departments.

Is that correct, twelve Departments of Govern- ment? MR. SMALLWOOD: That is cor- rect. MR. CASHIN: With all respect, I would like to draw the attention of the House to the fact that in the Province of Nova Scotia, which has a population of twice as much or probably more than twice as much as Newfoundland, they have six, or at the most, seven departmental heads. Now the other day the Pre- mier pointed out that all this is being paid for by the Canadian Government to the extent of $180,- 000 a year.

But what may appear on the face of it is not so, because these departmental heads are going to have clerks; they are going to have everything else attached to them. and on top that, the Canad- ian Government, in my opinion, at any rate, is getting away quite easy because the subsidies which are abandoned by Newfoundland under the Terms of Union are any- thing but adequate and anything but equal, and consequently any- one who tries to tell me that this $180,000 which the Canadian Gov- ernment is granting us to pay these bills for legislation, departments, and so on, I cannot agree with you.

However, the position is this, now we are discussing the thing and it is going to go through I take it. During the term of the Commis- sion of Government, and I can go back to Responsible Government, the Department of Public Works took care of the Railway, the Gand- er Airport, the Supplies, Light- house, and Mines. To-day the rail- lighthouses are gone out of it, and now you are putting in two men to do less than one man did before.

Now that might be a matter which could come up for debate when the Estimates of expenditure come along, but to tell me that it is necessary to have twelve Ministers of the Crown to administer the af- fairs of the Provincial Government of Newfoundland, it is not right; it is not proper.

As a matter of fact I would go so far as to say it is not decent, because every prime minis- ter is in the position now where there are twenty-eight members in this House, both sides, when the gentleman is selected for Labra- dor, we find twelve of them Minis- ters of the Crown, with twelve de- partments; we find the Speaker and the Chairman, and we find fifteen members of the I-louse receiving emoluments over and above their sessional pay. It does not add up to me, Mr. Chairman. You can take any Department you wish to-day.

The Prime Minister's Department, the Finance and Customs and you cannot collect any revenue there except what you can get in sub- - - V -

42 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS sidies from the Canadian Govern- ment; the Department of Marine and Fisheries, the Department of Agriculture and Mines, was looked after by the Commissioner for Na- tural Resources. Now you are go- ing to have two or three people looking after that; the Department of Home Affairs, nothing to do there. It is a waste of public money to have a Department of Home Af- fairs to-day, that is all. And to be- gin with, Mr.

Chairman, I have asked__I do not know whether I am going to receive any reply to thut question to-day or not - I asked that the financial statement of this country as it existed on April 1st, 1949, or at March 31st, 1949. It has not been forthcoming, and I would go so far as to state that in that connection when the Commission of Government handed over to the Provincial Government, they should have handed over the financial stalement of the country as it exist- ed then. I question, Mr. Chairman, whether you know the financial condition of Newfoundland to-day.

I question whether any member of the Flouse knows; they should know before they start passing Bills to create expenditure, and I would like the Minister of Justice to tell me if he knows right now where this country stands finan- cially at the moment. I doubt whether any member of this House knows. They should know.

Before they start passing Bills to create expenditure we ought to know where we stand, and I ask the Minister of Justice to tell me if he knows right now where this coun- try stands financially before he starts passing Bills through this I-louse creating twelve depart- ments, five additional departments, and I ask him to tell me right now how this country stands financially at this moment. I would like the Minister to give us that inform- ation. MR. SMALLWOOD: Mr.

Chair- man, I find something very enter- taining-_if the honourable gentle- man does not mind my saying it- about his speaking in such kindly fashion by inference about the late Commission of Government, about what they did, and the small num- her of men to do it.

I am not going at this time, because I do not think it is in order for me to do so, I am not going to have anything to say about the number of or the desir- ability or otherwise of the number of Ministers of the Crown, or the number of departments into which the Government is divided - the time will come for that—and we would not create these departments if we were not fully prepared to defend our action, and the honour- able gentleman will find when the proper time comes that we can de- fend our action without any diffi- culty in the wide world, and that we can handsomely justify to the country and to this House what we have done.

Now that one point, so that I will not be misunderstood. What I said here yesterday was that the Gov- ernment of Canada was voting- the Parliament of Canada under Statute, indeed under the British North America Act, was voting to the Government of Newfoundland a sum of $180,000 annually, to- wards, that is the word that I used, quite properly, towards the support of Government and Legislature, ob- viously not to bear the full cost of the Government of Newfoundland,