British Columbia Hansard — Wednesday, April 28, 2004

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British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

5th Session, 37th Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY (HANSARD) Wednesday, April 28, 2004 Afternoon Sitting Volume 24, Number 7 THE HONOURABLE CLAUDE RICHMOND, SPEAKER ISSN 0709-1281

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Honourable Iona Campagnolo 5TH SESSION, 37TH PARLIAMENT SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Claude Richmond EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................Hon. Gordon Campbell Minister of State for Intergovernmental Relations ...............................................................................................................Hon.

Sindi Hawkins Deputy Premier and Minister of Children and Family Development ................................................................................ Hon. Christy Clark Minister of State for Early Childhood Development...................................................................................................................Hon. Linda Reid Minister of Advanced Education................................................................................................................................................ Hon.

Shirley Bond Minister of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries..................................................................................................................... Hon. John van Dongen Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Treaty Negotiations..................................................................................... Hon. Geoff Plant Minister of Community, Aboriginal and Women's Services ................................................................................................ Hon.

Murray Coell Minister of State for Women's and Seniors' Services................................................................................................................... Hon. Ida Chong Minister of Education ............................................................................................................................................................Hon. Tom Christensen Minister of Energy and Mines...............................................................................................................................................Hon.

Richard Neufeld Minister of State for Mining...................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Pat Bell Minister of Finance.........................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Gary Collins Minister of Forests................................................................................................................................................................... Hon.

Michael de Jong Minister of State for Forestry Operations.................................................................................................................................. Hon. Roger Harris Minister of Health Services.........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Colin Hansen Minister of State for Mental Health and Addiction Services ....................................................................................................Hon.

Susan Brice Minister of Human Resources........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Stan Hagen Minister of Management Services ............................................................................................................................................. Hon. Joyce Murray Minister of Provincial Revenue.................................................................................................................................................... Hon.

Rick Thorpe Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General...................................................................................................................... Hon. Rich Coleman Minister of Skills Development and Labour......................................................................................................................Hon. Graham P. Bruce Minister of Small Business and Economic Development ...............................................................................................................Hon.

John Les Minister of Sustainable Resource Management ....................................................................................................................Hon. George Abbott Minister of State for Resort Development............................................................................................................................... Hon. Sandy Santori Minister of Transportation...........................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Kevin Falcon Minister of Water, Land and Air Protection ............................................................................................................................... Hon.

Bill Barisoff LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Deputy Speaker ....................................................................................................................................................................................John Weisbeck Leader of the Opposition .......................................................................................................................................................................Joy MacPhail Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole..............................................................................................................................................

Harold Long Clerk of the Legislative Assembly ........................................................................................................................................... E. George MacMinn Clerk Assistant.........................................................................................................................................................................................Robert Vaive Clerk Assistant and Law Clerk ...............................................................................................................................................................Ian D.

Izard Clerk Assistant and Clerk of Committees ....................................................................................................................................... Craig H. James Clerk Assistant and Committee Clerk ..........................................................................................................................................Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sergeant-at-Arms............................................................................................................................................................................. A.A.

Humphreys Director, Hansard Services ..................................................................................................................................................Anthony Dambrauskas Legislative Librarian ..................................................................................................................................................................................Jane Taylor Legislative Comptroller...............................................................................................................................................................................Peter Bray Published by British Columbia Hans ard Services, and printed under the authority of the Speaker by the Queen's Printer, Victoria.

Rates: single issue, $2.85; per calendar year, mailed daily, $298. GST extra. Agent: Crown Publications Inc., 521 Fort St., Victoria, B.C. V8W 1E7. Telephone: (250) 386-4636. Fax: 386-0221. www.leg.bc.ca Hansard Services publishes transcripts both in print and on the Internet. Chamber debates are broadcast on television and webcast on the Internet.

Party Standings: Liberal 74; New Democratic 2; Independent Liberal 3 ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Abbott, Hon. George (L) ..........................................................................Shuswap Anderson, Val J. (L)............................................................... Vancouver-Langara Barisoff, Hon. Bill (L)...............................................Penticton–Okanagan Valley Bell, Hon.

Pat (L) ..................................................................Prince George North Belsey, Bill (L)....................................................................................North Coast Bennett, Bill (L) ..............................................................................East Kootenay Bhullar, Tony (Ind. L) ................................................................... Surrey-Newton Bloy, Harry (L).....................................................................................Burquitlam Bond, Hon. Shirley (L)..........................................

Prince George–Mount Robson Bray, Jeff (L) ........................................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Brenzinger, Elayne (Ind. L)...........................................................Surrey-Whalley Brice, Hon. Susan (L)...................................................................... Saanich South Bruce, Hon. Graham P. (L) ................................................. Cowichan-Ladysmith Campbell, Hon. Gordon (L) ..............................................

Vancouver–Point Grey Cheema, Gulzar S. (L).....................................................Surrey–Panorama Ridge Chong, Hon. Ida (L) ......................................................... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Christensen, Hon. Tom (L) ...................................................... Okanagan-Vernon Chutter, Dave (L) ..............................................................................Yale-Lillooet Clark, Hon.

Christy (L) ....................................................Port Moody–Westwood Cobb, Walt (L) ................................................................................Cariboo South Coell, Hon. Murray (L) ..........................................Saanich North and the Islands Coleman, Hon. Rich (L)................................................Fort Langley–Aldergrove Collins, Hon. Gary (L) ..........................................................Vancouver-Fairview de Jong, Hon. Michael (L) ........................................Abbotsford–Mount Lehman Falcon, Hon.

Kevin (L) ............................................................ Surrey-Cloverdale Hagen, Hon. Stan (L) ......................................................................Comox Valley Halsey-Brandt, Greg (L) ............................................................Richmond Centre Hamilton, Arnie (L)..............................................................Esquimalt-Metchosin Hansen, Hon. Colin (L) .......................................................Vancouver-Quilchena Harris, Hon.

Roger (L) ................................................................................Skeena Hawes, Randy (L)............................................................... Maple Ridge–Mission Hawkins, Hon. Sindi (L) ........................................................... Kelowna-Mission Hayer, Dave S. (L) ..................................................................... Surrey-Tynehead Hogg, Gordon (L)................................................................... Surrey–White Rock Hunter, Mike (L) .....................................................................................

Nanaimo Jarvis, Daniel (L)........................................................North Vancouver–Seymour Johnston, Ken (L).............................................................. Vancouver-Fraserview Kerr, Brian J. (L) ................................................................ Malahat–Juan de Fuca Krueger, Kevin (L)................................................... Kamloops–North Thompson Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP)................................

Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Lee, Richard T. (L).........................................................................Burnaby North Lekstrom, Blair (L)................................................................... Peace River South Les, Hon. John (L).................................................................... Chilliwack-Sumas Locke, Brenda (L) ............................................................. Surrey–Green Timbers Long, Harold (L) .................................................... Powell River–Sunshine Coast MacKay, Dennis (L).........................................................

Bulkley Valley–Stikine McMahon, Wendy (L).............................................. Columbia River–Revelstoke MacPhail, Joy (NDP) ............................................................ Vancouver-Hastings Manhas, Karn (L) ..............................................Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Masi, Reni (L) ..................................................................................... Delta North Mayencourt, Lorne (L)............................................................Vancouver-Burrard Murray, Hon. Joyce (L).............................................................

New Westminster Nebbeling, Ted (L)..................................................... West Vancouver–Garibaldi Nettleton, Paul (Ind. L) ...................................................Prince George–Omineca Neufeld, Hon. Richard (L) .......................................................

Peace River North Nijjar, Rob (L).....................................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Nuraney, John (L)..................................................................Burnaby-Willingdon Orr, Sheila (L) .............................................................................Victoria-Hillside Penner, Barry (L)......................................................................... Chilliwack-Kent Plant, Hon. Geoff (L) ...........................................................

Richmond-Steveston Reid, Judith (L)....................................................................... Nanaimo-Parksville Reid, Hon. Linda (L) ..................................................................... Richmond East Richmond, Hon. Claude (L)...................................................................Kamloops Roddick, Valerie (L)............................................................................ Delta South Sahota, Patty (L).......................................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Santori, Hon. Sandy (L) ..............................................

West Kootenay–Boundary Stephens, Lynn (L).................................................................................... Langley Stewart, Ken (L)........................................................ Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Stewart, Richard (L)........................................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Suffredine, Blair F. (L)..................................................................Nelson-Creston Sultan, Ralph (L) .........................................................West Vancouver–Capilano Thorpe, Hon.

Rick (L)............................................................Okanagan-Westside Trumper, Gillian (L)..................................................................Alberni-Qualicum van Dongen, Hon. John (L)..................................................Abbotsford-Clayburn Visser, Rod (L)...................................................................................North Island Weisbeck, John (L).......................................................... Kelowna–Lake Country Whittred, Katherine (L).............................................

North Vancouver–Lonsdale Wilson, John (L)..............................................................................Cariboo North Wong, Patrick (L)..............................................................Vancouver-Kensington LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Clayburn ........................................................ Hon. John van Dongen Abbotsford–Mount Lehman................................................Hon. Michael de Jong Alberni-Qualicum ........................................................................

Gillian Trumper Bulkley Valley–Stikine ................................................................ Dennis MacKay Burnaby North................................................................................ Richard T. Lee Burnaby-Edmonds.............................................................................. Patty Sahota Burnaby-Willingdon ........................................................................John Nuraney Burquitlam............................................................................................

Harry Bloy Cariboo North..................................................................................... John Wilson Cariboo South........................................................................................Walt Cobb Chilliwack-Kent ................................................................................ Barry Penner Chilliwack-Sumas ........................................................................... Hon.

John Les Columbia River–Revelstoke .....................................................Wendy McMahon Comox Valley .............................................................................Hon. Stan Hagen Coquitlam-Maillardville............................................................... Richard Stewart Cowichan-Ladysmith .........................................................Hon. Graham P.

Bruce Delta North.............................................................................................Reni Masi Delta South...................................................................................Valerie Roddick East Kootenay .....................................................................................Bill Bennett Esquimalt-Metchosin .................................................................... Arnie Hamilton Fort Langley–Aldergrove....................................................... Hon.

Rich Coleman Kamloops ......................................................................... Hon. Claude Richmond Kamloops–North Thompson.......................................................... Kevin Krueger Kelowna–Lake Country .................................................................John Weisbeck Kelowna-Mission ...................................................................Hon. Sindi Hawkins Langley........................................................................................... Lynn Stephens Malahat–Juan de Fuca.......................................................................

Brian J. Kerr Maple Ridge–Mission ......................................................................Randy Hawes Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows............................................................... Ken Stewart Nanaimo .............................................................................................Mike Hunter Nanaimo-Parksville..............................................................................Judith Reid Nelson-Creston......................................................................... Blair F.

Suffredine New Westminster .................................................................... Hon. Joyce Murray North Coast .......................................................................................... Bill Belsey North Island.......................................................................................... Rod Visser North Vancouver–Lonsdale .................................................... Katherine Whittred North Vancouver–Seymour ..............................................................

Daniel Jarvis Oak Bay–Gordon Head.................................................................Hon. Ida Chong Okanagan-Vernon ..............................................................Hon. Tom Christensen Okanagan-Westside................................................................... Hon. Rick Thorpe Peace River North ...............................................................Hon. Richard Neufeld Peace River South ..........................................................................Blair Lekstrom Penticton–Okanagan Valley...................................................... Hon.

Bill Barisoff Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain......................................................Karn Manhas Port Moody–Westwood ...........................................................Hon. Christy Clark Powell River–Sunshine Coast............................................................Harold Long Prince George North .........................................................................Hon. Pat Bell Prince George–Mount Robson................................................. Hon. Shirley Bond Prince George–Omineca .................................................................

Paul Nettleton Richmond Centre ...................................................................Greg Halsey-Brandt Richmond East ............................................................................ Hon. Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston ...................................................................Hon. Geoff Plant Saanich North and the Islands..................................................Hon. Murray Coell Saanich South............................................................................. Hon. Susan Brice Shuswap ................................................................................

Hon. George Abbott Skeena .......................................................................................Hon. Roger Harris Surrey-Cloverdale ....................................................................Hon. Kevin Falcon Surrey–Green Timbers.....................................................................Brenda Locke Surrey-Newton ..................................................................................Tony Bhullar Surrey–Panorama Ridge............................................................ Gulzar S.

Cheema Surrey-Tynehead .............................................................................Dave S. Hayer Surrey-Whalley ........................................................................ Elayne Brenzinger Surrey–White Rock.......................................................................... Gordon Hogg Vancouver-Burrard .................................................................. Lorne Mayencourt Vancouver-Fairview..................................................................Hon. Gary Collins Vancouver-Fraserview .....................................................................

Ken Johnston Vancouver-Hastings......................................................................... Joy MacPhail Vancouver-Kensington .................................................................... Patrick Wong Vancouver-Kingsway............................................................................ Rob Nijjar Vancouver-Langara...................................................................... Val J. Anderson Vancouver–Mount Pleasant .............................................Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Vancouver–Point Grey..................................................... Hon.

Gordon Campbell Vancouver-Quilchena ............................................................. Hon. Colin Hansen Victoria–Beacon Hill ...............................................................................Jeff Bray Victoria-Hillside.....................................................................................Sheila Orr West Kootenay–Boundary ......................................................Hon. Sandy Santori West Vancouver–Capilano ............................................................... Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Garibaldi............................................................

Ted Nebbeling Yale-Lillooet .....................................................................................Dave Chutter

CONTENTS Wednesday, April 28, 2004 Afternoon Sitting Routine Proceedings Page Introductions by Members ....................................................................................................... ............................................ 10575 Tributes ....................................................................................................................... ............................................................ 10575 Jerry Deere Hon. M. de Jong Bill Gillis Hon.

M. de Jong Ministerial Statements......................................................................................................... .................................................. 10576 National Day of Mourning Hon. G. Bruce Introduction and First Reading of Bills........................................................................................ ....................................... 10577 Health Care Services Continuation Act (Bill M201) J.

MacPhail Statements (Standing Order 25B) .............................................................................................................................. ........... 10577 National Day of Mourning J. MacPhail Eyesight clinic P. Sahota Prevention of violence against women G. Trumper Oral Questions................................................................................................................. ....................................................... 10578 Impact of government policies on health care J. MacPhail Hon. G. Bruce Hon. G. Campbell J. Kwan Hon. C.

Hansen Income assistance and employment transition services V. Anderson Hon. S. Hagen Economic growth in B.C. R. Sultan Hon. G. Collins Working forest initiative K. Krueger Hon. G. Abbott Committee of the Whole House................................................................................................... ........................................ 10581 Nanaimo and South West Water Supply Act (Bill 31) M. Hunter Hon. M.

Coell Report and Third Reading of Bills .............................................................................................. ......................................... 10582 Nanaimo and South West Water Supply Act (Bill 31)

Second Reading of Bills........................................................................................................ ................................................. 10582 College and Institute Amendment Act, 2004 (Bill 26) Hon. S. Bond Agricultural Land Commission Amendment Act, 2004 (Bill 27) Hon. G. Abbott G. Halsey-Brandt Provincial Revenue Statutes Amendment Act, 2004 (Bill 34) Hon. R.

Thorpe Committee of Supply............................................................................................................ ................................................. 10585 Estimates: Ministry of Attorney General and Ministry Responsible for Treaty Negotiations Hon. G. Plant J. Kwan D. MacKay L. Mayencourt Introduction and First Reading of Bills........................................................................................ ....................................... 10604 Health Sector (Facilities Subsector) Collective Agreement Act (Bill 37) Hon. G.

Bruce Standing Order 81 Motion ....................................................................................................... ............................................. 10604 Hon. G. Collins J.

MacPhail Standing Order 81 Motion (Speaker's Ruling) .................................................................................... ............................... 10606 Second Reading of Bills........................................................................................................ ................................................. 10606 Health Sector (Facilities Subsector) Collective Agreement Act (Bill 37) Hon. G. Bruce J. MacPhail J. Kwan P. Nettleton Hon. G. Abbott E. Brenzinger Hon. C. Hansen B. Kerr B. Lekstrom Hon. G.

Bruce Committee of the Whole House................................................................................................... ........................................ 10646 Health Sector (Facilities Subsector) Collective Agreement Act (Bill 37) J. MacPhail Hon. G. Bruce J. Kwan B.

Lekstrom Report and Third Reading of Bills .............................................................................................. ......................................... 10666 Health Sector (Facilities Subsector) Collective Agreement Act (Bill 37) Tabling Documents.............................................................................................................. .................................................. 10666 Hon. G.

Bruce Royal Assent to Bills.......................................................................................................... .................................................... 10666 Budget Measures Implementation Act, 2004 (Bill 5) Taxation Statutes Amendment Act, 2004 (Bill 6) Education Statutes Amendment Act, 2004 (Bill 12) Environmental Management Amendment Act, 2004 (Bill 13) Vancouver Tourism Levy Enabling Act (Bill 14) Water, Land and Air Protection Statutes Amendment Act, 2004 (Bill 16) Land Survey Statutes Amendment Act, 2004 (Bill 17) Miscellaneous Statutes Amendment Act, 2004 (Bill 18) Education Services Collective Agreement Amendment Act, 2004 (Bill 19)

Motor Dealer Amendment Act, 2004 (Bill 24) Wildfire Act (Bill 25) Coal Act (Bill 28) Mineral Tenure Amendment Act, 2004 (Bill 29) Nanaimo and South West Water Supply Act (Bill 31) Society Amendment Act, 2004 (Bill 32) Health Sector (Facilities Subsector) Collective Agreement Act (Bill 37) B.J. Field Service Ltd. (Corporate Restoration) Act, 2004 (Bill Pr401) Kidd Resources Ltd. (Corporate Restoration) Act, 2004 (Bill Pr402) Pheidias Project Management

(1979) Corp. (Corporate Restoration) Act, 2004 (Bill Pr403) Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room Committee of Supply............................................................................................................ ................................................. 10666 Estimates: Ministry of Transportation (continued) J. MacPhail Hon. K. Falcon

10575 WEDNESDAY, APRIL 28, 2004 The House met at 2:05 p.m. Prayers. Introductions by Members Hon. G. Campbell: I t ' s a p l e a s u r e t o i n t r o d u c e a group of very special British Columbians who are with us in the House today. They are in the members' gal- lery, and they are members of the Order of British Co- lumbia Advisory Council. These are the men and women who have taken on the onerous task of review- ing the 241 nominations that are in this year for the Order of British Columbia. It is a challenging task.

The OBC Advisory Council is chaired by the Chief Justice of the Court of Appeal of B.C., the Hon. Lance Finch. It includes, of course, the distinguished Speaker of the House. The president of the Union of B.C. Mu- nicipalities, Frank Leonard, is also on the council — the president of the University of Northern British Colum- bia, Dr. Charles Jago; At hana Mentzelopoulos, the Deputy Minister of Interg overnmental Relations; and two members of the Order, Dr. Milton Wong from Vancouver and Debra Foxcroft from Port Alberni. I hope the House will make them all welcome and wish them well in their deliberations. J.

Weisbeck: Seated on the floor of the chamber are three guests from Australia who are visiting us: Mr. John Mills, MP, Chairman of Committees, New South Wales Legislative Assembly; the Hon. Jennifer Gar- diner, MLC, a member of the New South Wales Legis- lative Council; and Mr. Ian Faulks, committee man- ager, Parliament of New South Wales. Would the House please make them welcome. Hon. G. Collins: Today in the members' gallery I'd like to acknowledge a special visitor from Iceland. Please join me in welcoming His Excellency Gudmun- dur Eiriksson, the newly appointed ambassador of Iceland to Canada.

This is the ambassador's first visit to British Columbia. I'm pleased he has travelled here to discover the many opportun ities that this great and beautiful province has to offer. He's accompanied to- day by Heather Ireland, the honorary consul general of Iceland at Vancouver. Would the House please help make them welcome. T. Bhullar: A good friend of mine David Hudak and his lovely wife, Leslie, are visiting us today. They're in the gallery.

David is an expert in counter- insurgency and had the unfo rtunate experience of be- ing held by the U.S. authorities for 16 months after being wrongly accused and just arrived back in Canada last Friday. Will the House please make them welcome. [1410] G. Trumper: It's my pleasure today to ask the House to welcome Bob Kanngiesser from my riding. Bob just retired a few months ago as the secretary- treasurer of school district 70 and, actually, a few years ago was a candidate for the Liberal Party provincially. Would you please make him welcome. V.

Anderson: Today in the gallery I am very pleased to welcome 18 students from the Ideal Mini School in Vancouver and th e James Lyng High School in Montreal. They are accompanied by Susan Gerofsky from the Ideal Mini School . The students from James L y n g H i g h S c h o o l i n M o n t r e a l a r e h e r e a s p a r t o f a youth Canada exchange program funded by the federal Heritage ministry and administered by the YMCA. Would the House please help me to give them a very warm British Columbia welcome. K.

Krueger: It's my pleasure to introduce 19 grades 4 to 6 students from Pinantan Elementary School in my constituency and eight accompanying adults — all in the care of Ms. Courtney, their teacher. Would the House please make them very welcome. D. Hayer: I am pleased to rise in this House today following the introduction by the member for Vancouver-Langara. Accompanying the students from James Lyng High School in Montreal is one of the teachers and my cousin, Angela Hayer. Would the House please make her very welcome. Mr.

Speaker: Hon. members, I would like to take this opportunity to introduce 25 public servants seated in both the east and west galleries who are participat- ing in a full-day parliame ntary procedure workshop. This workshop, offered by the Legislative Assembly, provides a first-hand opportunity for the public service to gain a greater understanding of the relationship be- tween the work of their ministries and how that work affects the Legislature. Would the House please make them welcome. Tributes JERRY DEERE Hon. M. de Jong: Some sad news today.

On the weekend British Columbia lost a couple of pioneers — forest giants. Jerry Deere had spent a lifet ime in forestry, much of i t w i t h C a n a d i a n F o r e s t P r o d u c t s a n d m o r e r e c e n t l y with East Fraser Fiber, whic h he joined as president in 1999. He was a former chairman of the Northern Forest Products Association, a former director of the Prince George Region Development Corporation and had vast, extensive involvements with 4-H.

At the time of his passing he was a board member with the Council of Forest Industries, the Mackenzie Economic Develop- ment Commission, and a director with the Prince George Airport Authority. He had provided a lifetime of service to his com- munity and to the industry that he loved. He passed away also doing something he loved — on a golf trip

10576 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, APRIL 28, 2004 with friends and members of the industry he had worked in. He leaves a wife, two daughters and, within the last two years, two grandchildren who were the pride of his life. That was Jerry Deere. BILL GILLIS Hon. M. de Jong: We also sadly — and I speak on behalf now, I'm sure, of all members but most particu- larly the member for Burnaby-Edmonds — lost Bill Gillis. Bill Gillis had spent in excess of a half-century in forestry.

When he returned to Canada after serving his country in World War II, he was a true pioneer not just in his work as the founder of Mill and Timber Products and Haida Forest Products but also in the development of certain techniques, like kiln-drying western red ce- dar. Three years ago the Fraser River Discovery Centre Society recognized Bill Gillis as a pioneer for the pio- neering work that he had done, and they installed him in the Fraser River Hall of Fame. As I say, he was a longtime resident of Burnab y. His son Jim is now the president of Haida Forest Products.

We saw Jim just a few days ago, and even then there was hope that his dad, Bill, was going to launch another of his famous comebacks. It was not to be. His family — Jim, Dave, his daughter Diane and all of his grandchildren and extended family — grieve, and we grieve with them. But his — as was Jerry's — was a life well lived. I hope, Mr. Speaker, that you will convey the sen- timents of this House to two forestry giants that we lost. Mr. Speaker: So ordered. [1415] Introductions by Members S. Orr: The guest has already been introduced, but I would also like to welcome one of my mayors.

That's Mayor Frank Leonard, who is also the mayor for the member for Saanich South and the member for Oak Bay–Gordon Head. I just want to remind the members of this House that he taught me everything I know, so I'd like you to blame him. Would all the House please make him welcome. Ministerial Statements NATIONAL DAY OF MOURNING Hon. G. Bruce: Today flags are flying half-mast on buildings across the province to mark the twentieth anniversary of the Day of Mourning for workers who have lost their lives as a result of work-related acci- dents or occupational diseases.

Every year on this day we renew our commitment to fight for the safety of the living as well as mourn for those workers who have died on the job. Every year we need to remind ourselves th at as alarming and shock- ing as the statistics may be, this is not about statistics; it's actually about people — people in your community and people in my community. A s a V a n c o u v e r I s l a n d M L A , I c o m e f r o m a n a r e a that has seen its share of workplace tragedy this year. A year ago this month my friend Ted Towe, an IWA member from Duncan, died when he fell from the back of a semitrailer.

Last May, Julia James, a family friend — and her mom and dad — and former employee of mine from Chemainus, drowned when a company ve- hicle went into a lake at a remote tree-planting area near Quesnel. Julia was just 20 years old. In September, Percy Forbes from Port Alberni died after he lost control of an off-road logging truck on a steep

section off a logging road in the Sarita area. In Oc- tober, John Riley from Parksville was killed when a load of lumber fell on him at Interfor's field sawmill in Cour- tenay. In February, Roy Smith of the Malahat, Derek Myers of Victoria and Dennis Webber of Errington lost their lives when their fishing boat, the Hope Bay, cap- sized west of Port Hardy. All were good people just try- ing to do their jobs when tragedy struck, as were all the others who were so tragically taken from us. There are positive signs, though.

The injury rate in B.C. workplaces reached an all-time low in 2003 — a 42 percent decrease since 1994. Credit must go to the efforts of many workers, companies, unions, industry associa- tions and the WCB. All of them have done a lot to make workplaces safer. Still, we saw more than 150 fatalities last year and more than 5,300 permanent injuries. Although these deaths in the workplace occur in all sectors, there are some that require special attention. The forest industry is one such sector that has an unac- ceptable rate of death and serious injuries.

The WCB along with the forest industry — companies, contrac- tors, unions — and the government have established the Forest Safety Task Forc e. This group has worked together over the last eight months to come up with 20 recommendations that will help save lives and prevent serious injuries in the woods. To make these recommendations a reality, though, the industry is now forming an operational team, developing an action plan with the larger for- est community to work through the recommenda- tions and implement changes t o m a k e B . C . ' s f or e s t s safer places to work.

The important factor here is that all the agencies are working together to make these changes, because it's cooperation that will yield the best results. I along with you, I'm sure, look forward to the day when we won't have to add names to the list of those who have gone from us. It's a day that we all must work toward, and I would ask everyone here and those in the workplaces — employers and employees — to make that commitment to themselves, to their friends and to their colleagues. Mr.

Speaker, I would ask that we take a moment now to pause in a moment of silence for those that have lost their lives, in memory of them. [1420] Mr. Speaker: Thank you, hon. members.

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 28, 2004 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 10577 J. MacPhail: I, too, will be acknowledging this day in a few moments in a member's statement. Introduction and First Reading of Bills HEALTH CARE SERVICES CONTINUATION ACT J. MacPhail presented a bill intituled Health Care Services Continuation Act. J. MacPhail: Mr. Speaker, I move the bill standing in my name on the order paper, entitled Health Care Services Continuation Act, be introduced and read a first time now. Motion approved. J.

MacPhail: This bill proposes a 90-day morato- rium on the privatization in the health care sector and puts both the Hospital Employees Union and the Health Employers Association of B.C. back to the bar- gaining table to hammer out an agreement that works for patients. This bill ensures that health care workers get back to work with the confidence that bargaining can continue in good faith and that patient care is not compromised. Strikes in the health care sector hurt patients, but so do the actions of a government that chooses confronta- tion over negotiation.

The Premier has demonstrated time and time again that when it comes to health care, he's ready for a fight. It doesn't seem to matter with whom — nurses, doctors, lab technicians and now support services staff. His approach is to bully, bad- talk and do battle. Again today he is ready to legislate a contract for health care workers, but this bill is an alternative we put before him. The alternative I am putting forward is a win-win situation for everyone. Patients get the care they need as the employees and employers are able to sit down and resume talks without outside pressure.

P a t i e n t s h a v e a l r e a d y b e e n h u r t e n o u g h b y t h e policies of this government. Wait-lists have increased by 26 percent, hospitals have closed across the prov- ince, emergency services decreased and long-term beds reduced. Patients have suffered enough because of the Premier's broken promises. It's time to honour the promises made three years ago to patients and health care providers and not legislate a contract in their name. I strongly encourage the government to adopt this bill as a government bill, and the opposition will ensure its passage today.

I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for consideration at the next sitting after today. Bill M201 introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Statements (Standing Order 25

B) NATIONAL DAY OF MOURNING J. MacPhail: I, too, rise today to commemorate the National Day of Mourning for injured workers. The National Day of Mourning is an occasion for British Columbians to join with Canadians from coast to coast to coast to mourn the tragic deaths and injuries that result from occupational accidents and work-related incidents. The numbers are staggering. In Canada some 900 employees die from accidents at work each year, averaging more than two deaths every day. From 1993 to 2002 more than 8,000 people lost their lives due to workplace accidents — by any other name, a pandemic.

Another 900,000 per year are injured. In 2003 more than 200 people died from work-related injury, illness or disease here in this province, four of whom were between the ages of 15 and 24, and close to 5,000 British Columbians were permanently disabled. [1425] The National Day of Mourning held every year on April 28 was officially recognized in Canada in 1991, eight years after the day of remembrance was launched by the Canadian Labour Congress. The Day of Mourn- ing has since spread to 80 countries around the world.

It is a day to reflect on the sacrifices that working peo- ple make to build our country and our province; a day to rededicate our efforts to make workplaces in British Columbia as safe and as productive as they can be, and to take a positive approach to how we look after work- ing people. One worker injured or killed on the job is one too many. Let us remember those who have lost their lives, and let us also remain dedicated to working for the living and to preventing further needless trage- dies. EYESIGHT CLINIC P.

Sahota: A couple of weeks ago a free eye clinic was conducted by Canadian Eyesight International at the Ross Street Temple in Vancouver. This was the first time a clinic of this type was organized, and the presi- dent of Canadian Eyesight, Mr. Anup Jubbal, said that the clinic was a huge success. A total of eight doctors, three nurses and many volunteers participated in this health awareness effort. Dr. Jay Kalra travelled all the way from Saskatoon to offer his assistance. Well-known local eye surgeons Dr. David Neima and Dr. Amrik Panesar participated in the eye clinic, and they saw a total of 307 people.

Many patients also received checkups for diabetes and high blood pressure. The medicines given to the eye patients were also distributed free of charge. I want to express my appreciation to the many doc- tors and volunteers who vo lunteered their time: Dr. Parmjit Sohal, Dr. Paramjit Bhui, RN Nalini Bhui, Dr.

10578 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, APRIL 28, 2004 Sukhi Bubra from Abbotsford, Dr. Hardip Thind of Burnaby and Dr. Saroj Kumar. Due to the success of this project, the organizers are planning a second eye clinic on July 25 at the Miri-Piri celebration at the Guru Nanak Sikh Temple in Surrey. My colleague from Surrey– Green Timbers and I are very much looking forward to volunteering our efforts towards this good cause. The organizers also want to repeat these free eye clinics quarterly and would like to expand this program to eastern Canada.

I am glad that many people took the opportunity to attend the first free eye clinic. It's also extremely impor- tant that all B.C. residents visit an optometrist or oph- thalmologist for regular eye health exams. While opti- cians have the technology to determine prescriptions for glasses and contact lenses, only licensed physicians like optometrists and ophtha lmologists can properly diagnose symptoms of disease such as glaucoma, cata- racts and damage caused by diabetes. I encourage all my constituents to see a me dical professional on a regular basis to ensure their eyes remain healthy for many years to come.

PREVENTION OF VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN G. Trumper: This week is Prevention of Violence Against Women Week, something that should be rec- ognized 52 weeks a year. This week is about raising awareness of the importance of eliminating violence against women once and for all. Every day you hear about crimes in the news — robbery, assault and theft. What you don't hear much about is violence against women, because more often than not, this violence occurs behind closed doors when home be- comes hell. Times are changing, and things are improving for women, but we have to do more.

We have to do more for the women and their childr en but also for the men. Believe it or not, there are men walking this earth today that still believe it is socially acceptable to slap a woman if she gets out of line. We see it in movies. We hear it from past generations. In fact, it can be argued that the phrase "rule of thumb" comes from English common law, which deemed it a man's right to beat his wife with a stick no thicker than the diameter of his thumb. These people must be educated. Will violence against women ever stop? I hope so. But we must not abandon the cause.

On days and weeks like today we must do what we can to educate all our constituents in Canada. This government pro- vides $33 million a year to direct services for women including prevention initiative s, transition houses, safe homes, second-stage housing and counselling. In a perfect world none of these services would exist, be- cause women would not be subject to abuse. Unfortu- nately, we live in a less-than-perfect world, and we must all do our part to make sure no more women suf- fer abuse as a result. Mr.

Speaker: That concludes members' statements. [1430] Oral Questions IMPACT OF GOVERNMENT POLICIES ON HEALTH CARE J. MacPhail: Let me quote the Premier from 2001: "I don't believe in ripping up agreements. I think the question today is how you maintain the quality and talent of the people who ar e in the system. I am not tearing up agreements." Wi ll the Premier stand up to- day and take responsibility for not telling the truth to the people of British Columbia? Mr. Speaker: Hon. member, just before we pro- ceed…. Your remark is very borderline on unparlia- mentary language.

I would as k you to please rephrase the last part of your question. J. MacPhail: The Premier said in 2001: "I don't be- lieve in ripping up agreem ents. I think the question today is how you maintain the quality and talent of the people who are in the syst em. I am not tearing up agreements." Will the Premier stand up today and take responsi- bility for completely changing his position — not once, not twice, but a half-dozen times? Hon. G. Bruce: You know, it takes a lot to do the things that are right to make a government work for the people in the province.

I think the Leader of the Opposition ought to know that, in fact, this govern- ment has worked very, very hard to establish im- proved relationships in this province, and we've been able to negotiate 37 public sector–negotiated settle- ments in this province. I think it's also important to note that as you move ahead through that particular aspect of things, we have seen the entire economy grow as people are working together to make British Columbia a better place to live. Mr. Speaker: The Leader of the Opposition has a further question. J.

MacPhail: I'll tell you, if the B.C. health care sys- tem was any better because the Premier broke his promise, British Columbians might forgive him. But it's not. In fact, it's worse, and it's getting worse every day. The Premier's health care policies are failing around this province. He promised to reduce wait-lists. They're up 26 percent in less than th ree years. He promised to reduce wait times, but in almost every category they are up substantially.

He promised to respect health care workers, but every health care professional in this province — doctors, nurses, technicians, food service workers — is united in their opposition to this gov- ernment. Can the Premier explain why he is deliberately driving our health care system into the ground?

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 28, 2004 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 10579 Hon. G. Campbell: When this government took office, we said we were going to focus our agenda on taking care of people in the province, taking care of patients. We said we were going to respect our health care professionals. We've done that. We have the highest-paid doctors, the highest-paid nurses, the highest-paid health care professionals in the country, because we reco gnize that those profes- sionals deliver. We said we were going to eliminate unnecessary bureaucracy and duplication so we could focus re- sources on patients.

We said we would protect health care funding. We've done that. In fact, we have added $2 billion to the health care budget to meet the needs of British Columbians. That's meant more nurses, more doctors and more care for British Columbians, which is what British Columbians deserve. Mr. Speaker: The Leader of the Opposition has a further supplementary. J. MacPhail: British Columbians are sick of that kind of spin. No wonder the Premier wouldn't get up and say what he meant when he said: "I'm not tearing up agreements." They're sick of being told that patient care is getting better.

They'r e sick of being misled in advertisements that they have to pay for. Let me quote from the form er chief of medical staff at Kootenay Lake Hospital about the effect of this gov- ernment's cuts on his hospit al. I note that no Liberal member will ever ask this question. Here's the quote: "We've had some really close calls, but no one has died yet. But eventually, I think, someone will die." Well, someone did die. Edward Morritt waited six hours for treatment for a ruptured spleen that took his life as a result of cuts to emergency care. That's what every health care professional says.

Will the Premier stand up and repeat his promise that people will get health care where they need it and when they need it, or will he finally admit to patients in B.C. that they're suffering because he didn't tell them what he was going to do — that he misled them? [1435] Hon. G. Campbell: Over the last three years we have managed to encourage doctors and nurses to go to rural locations and remote locations across British Columbia. We have watched as regional hospitals have been built up in Kamloops, in Prince George and in Cranbrook.

We've watched as we've had an in- creasing number of specialists come to provide for people with needs. We've watched as this govern- ment has invested in telehe alth so people get care quickly in the hospitals where they need it, as quickly as they can. We recognize that health care is a major challenge as British Columbians age, but we also recognize that the critical component of health care is to take the re- sources that we ask taxpayers to give us and focus them on patients where they live, and that's exactly what this government has done. J.

Kwan: This Premier promised British Columbi- ans that he wouldn't rip up collective agreements and that he would deliver health care when you need it and where you need it, and he's failed on both counts. When confronted with the evidence of Mr. Morritt's tragic death… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order, please. Let us hear the question, hon. members. J. Kwan: …the Health minister insisted that it was not due to cutbacks. He said that the after-hours ultra- sound Mr. Morritt required wa s never available at the Kootenay Lake Hospital. Not true.

According to nurses and doctors who work in Nelson, before this govern- ment took office, they had surgeons on call. They had radiologists on call, they had technologists on call, and they had after-hours ultras ound on call. Now they don't. Can the Premier explain why he's spending $19 million on health care advertisements when patients in Nelson can't even get an ultrasound? Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The Minister of Health Services has the floor. Hon. C. Hansen: I think as the members know, there are two inquiries unde rway. The health authority has engaged in an independent review of that.

I can assure the member that the review that has been done indicates that ultrasound was available, that the radi- ologist can be called in before the changes and could be called in now. The only difference is that in fact the radiologist, had he been called in on that particular night, would have been paid more than he would…. He would not have been paid in the past. He in fact would have been paid for that callback. I think it's important that the opposition members allow for those investigations to proceed so that we can find out exactly what did hap- pen in those circumstances.

I think we owe that to the memory of Mr. Morritt. Mr. Speaker: The member for Vancouver–Mount Pleasant has a supplementary question. J. Kwan: With the spin of this government, the government's credibility gap is getting bigger every day. It's just been over 1,000 days since this Premier won the election — 1,000 days of decline. [Applause.] Only this back bench…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please, hon. members on both sides of the House, so we may hear the question.

10580 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, APRIL 28, 2004 J. Kwan: Only this bench of government members would clap when British Columbia is faced with 1,000 days of decline for patient care. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please, order please. Order, please, hon. members. The member for Vancouver– Mount Pleasant has the floor. J. Kwan: No one believes this government's spin. Their excuses have run out. Three years of broken promises have worn out British Columbians' patience.

When will the Premier admit that three years of priva- tization, three years of conflict and three years of cut- backs have not improved patient care but have put patients' lives at risk? Hon. G. Campbell: I certainly understand what the member opposite is concerned about. We're all con- cerned about health care. We were concerned when the previous government cut back on the number of nurses they trained in British Columbia. We were concerned when the previous government cut back on the number of doctors. What we have done is increased the number of nurses that are being trained…. Interjections. Mr.

Speaker: Order, please. Let us have order in the chamber. Hon. G. Campbell: We have increased the number of nurses that are trained. In fact, we've reduced the vacancy in nurses that we inherited from the previous government. We are going to almost double the num- ber of doctors that are trained in British Columbia.

For the first time in history we'll be training doctors at the University of Northern British Columbia and at the University of Victoria. [1440] We have added substantially to the health care budget, and in adding to that health care budget, we have provided for the most important component of health care. That's the people who deliver the care: doctors, nurses, physiotherapists — people who will be assured that the 38,000 additional procedures we've added last year over the year before are going to con- tinue to be added as we improve health care for people in every region of this province.

INCOME ASSISTANCE AND EMPLOYMENT TRANSITION SERVICES V. Anderson: My question is to the Minister of Human Resources. People in my community who are recognized by his ministry as having multiple barriers would like to find a way to seek employment and training for that employment . However, some of these persons find the prospect of this transition very stress- ful. What resources are available to help these people during this potentially stressful transition to employ- ment and training? Hon. S. Hagen: This government recognizes that each person on income assistance may have barriers to overcome.

Some have significant barriers that seriously interfere with their ability to participate in the work- place or in their community, while others face barriers that may be readily overcome with some specialized services. That's why we tailor our services to meet the needs of each individual. We offer a vast range of services, including basic life skills such as hygiene, nutrition and financial man- agement, English training for people with language barriers, support for victim s of abuse or former sex- trade workers, skills training, interview preparation and job placement.

Our goal is to assist every client to achieve self-reliance and build a brighter future. Through our programs, they are doing just that. ECONOMIC GROWTH IN B.C. R. Sultan: M y q u e s t i o n i s t o T h e M i n i s t e r o f F i - nance. Over the last 12 months, we've all heard the opposition claim that British Columbia has just about the worst-performing economy in Canada, particularly last year but continuing today. Also, today I under- stand Carole James chimed in with further denigration of our economic performance.

Could the Minister of Finance please tell the House if the opposition's claim has any validity whatsoever? Hon. G. Collins: He might not be surprised by my answer. The answer is no, it doesn't have any validity. As late as today Carole James was still spreading doom and gloom about British Columbia, saying that our economy is dead last. She must be thinking back to those days when her party, the NDP, was in government, and we actually were dead last.

Today StatsCan came out and said that in 2003, British Columbia's economic growth rate was 2.2 percent — tied with the province of Alberta and well ahead of the national average. But there is more good news, because Scotiabank, Toronto-Dominion Bank and the B.C. Chamber of Commerce all say that British Columbia is going to move ahead to No. 2 in growth this year. The StatsCan numbers today also show that British Columbia was No. 2 in hours of work worked last year. That makes us No. 2 in Canada. It means people are changing from part-time to full-time growth .

Not only are we creating more jobs as the No. 1 job creator in Canada, but we're creating better jobs for British Columbia. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order, please. Order, please. WORKING FOREST INITIATIVE K. Krueger: Several weeks ago…

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 28, 2004 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 10581 Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. [1445] K. Krueger: …the member for Vancouver–Mount Pleasant joined Ken Wu of the Western Canada Wil- derness Committee to protest the working forest initia- tive, suggesting that it would put communities in jeop- ardy and people out of jobs. The NDP's version of land use management still haunts our memory. It was driven by political tides, leaving working families, communities and stake- holders without any land use certainty or opportunities for new jobs.

I believe the working forest initiative will benefit working families and the communities I repre- sent, who rely on access to our land base. I see our for- est industry once again gaining strength in British Co- lumbia. Would the minister please respond to Mr. Wu's concerns? Hon. G. Abbott: I thank the member for his ques- tion. We have heard a lot of nonsense and a lot of blather from the Western Canada Wilderness Commit- tee about the working forest initiative.

I know I was personally disappointed to see the NDP at their dem- onstration, but I guess they're not strangers to non- sense and blather as well, so it's not entirely an uncom- fortable partnership between the two. I will say this. The working forest initiative aims to… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Let's continue when we have order in the chamber. Hon. G. Abbott: …make sure that working families have a place in the future on the working forest base of British Columbia.

It's an initiative that takes account not only of forestry but also of mining, tourism and other enterprises that can occur on Crown lands across British Columbia. I share the member's view here. We do need parks; we do need protected areas. But we also need to ensure that working families have a future on the land base in British Columbia as well. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. [End of question period.] Orders of the Day Hon. G. Collins: In Committee A, I call Committee of Supply. For the information of members, we'll be con- tinuing the estimates of the Ministry of Transportation.

In this House, I call Committee of the Whole House for consideration of Bill 31. Committee of the Whole House NANAIMO AND SOUTH WEST WATER SUPPLY ACT The House in Committee of the Whole (Section

B) on Bill 31; K. Stewart in the chair. The committee met at 2:50 p.m. Sections 1 to 4 inclusive approved. On

section 5. M. Hunter: This

section sets out the establishment of a water advisory committee and allows for the con- tinuation of the current board under the Greater Nanaimo Water District Act should the city of Nanaimo not set up a committee. My understanding is that the city of Nanaimo does intend to set up a water advisory committee, and I wonder if the minister can indicate to me what criteria this legislation puts for- ward — or the Community Charter — with respect to the composition of that committee.

The reason I ask this is that in second reading, I made reference to my expectation that this legislation — and I believe the minister confirmed it — could ac- tually help in terms of getting some water issues re- solved in my community. Is it his expectation that this committee, which is to be set up under this section, will in fact have some criteria with respect to membership and terms of reference that will be helpful? Hon. M. Coell: The initial committee is four mem- bers from the water district and one from the regional district. M. Hunter: Can the minister point to where that is set out?

Is that a continuati on of the existing Nanaimo water district board? Hon. M. Coell: It's a continuation of the existing board. The four are actually from Nanaimo. M. Hunter: Should the city decide it wishes to estab- lish a committee under

section 5(1), then I am assuming that the committee to which the minister just referred is extinguished. My question is: if there is a new committee, are there requirements for residence or other criteria that will govern the selection of that committee by the city? Hon. M. Coell: We haven't developed the regula- tions as yet, but we will be requiring a minimum of one from the southwest area. Sections 5 to 7 inclusive approved. On

section 8. M. Hunter: My question on this

section actually pursues the same line of inquiry. Since under the

10582 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, APRIL 28, 2004 Community Charter the city of Nanaimo has more au- thority with respect to the passage of bylaws, what is the relationship between the city council and its advi- sory committee? Is it that the advisory committee just simply gives advice, and there is nothing more compli- cated than that? I've had qu estions about what control we have over the city of Nanaimo in terms of the set- ting of bylaws. I assume that 's just a normal municipal process and that

section 8 stands apart from

section 5. Hon. M. Coell: The advisory committee is specifi- cally advice. The board actually makes the decisions. Sections 8 to 11 inclusive approved. Title approved. Hon. M. Coell: I would move that we report the bill complete without amendment. Motion approved. The committee rose at 2:55 p.m. The House resumed; J. Weisbeck in the chair. Report and Third Reading of Bills Bill 31, Nanaimo and South West Water Supply Act, reported complete without amendment, read a third time and passed. Hon. R. Coleman: I call second reading of Bill 26. Second Reading of Bills COLLEGE AND INSTITUTE AMENDMENT ACT, 2004 Hon. S.

Bond: I move that Bill 26 now be read a second time. This year the British Columbia Institute of Technol- ogy celebrates its fortieth anniversary as a unique and integral part of B.C.'s post-secondary education system. It has been a truly remarkable journey for the institu- tion, growing from a single campus in Burnaby in 1964 to a world-class polytechnic institution boasting five campuses, 12 satellite locations around British Colum- bia and more than 48,000 students.

This government's commitment to add 25,000 new student spaces to the system throughout the province by 2010 underscores our determination to give every post-secondary institution in British Columbia the tools they need to expand and thrive and meet the needs of our students. We have also made a commitment to clear the path of unwarranted obstructions affecting their ability to operate efficiently and deliver the very best services to our students. I am pleased to say that so far in this government's mandate, we have worked to streamline post- secondary legislation in a number of ways.

Examples of the work we have done include eliminating the out- dated legislation that required institutions to submit annual budget proposals to the Minister of Advanced Education. We've also elimin ated the requirement that the minister present the annual report of the British Columbia Institute of Technology to the Legislature. These are no longer needed with the advent of our three-year service plans an d an accountability frame- work that we put in place to spell out government's expectations clearly.

We have removed the provision in the College and Institute Act that required the minister to coordinate continuing education programs, leaving it to those who know best — institutions themselves — to direct this v i t a l p a r t o f p o s t - s e c o n d a r y e d u c a t i o n . W e h a v e streamlined the process for approving new degree programs for public institutions by allowing them to gain approval via ministers' orders rather than orders- in-council, and we have removed the requirement that institutional boards and administrators obtain gov- ernment approval of their bylaws.

The legislation we are discussing here today con- tinues my ministry's work to make sure that B.C.'s pub- lic colleges, university colleges and institutes continue to do their work unencumb ered by needless red tape. In B.C. currently, two acts govern the way BCIT and our colleges and institutes manage their affairs. BCIT is governed by the Institute of Technology Act, while the legislative framework for other provincial institutes, colleges and university colleges is contained in the Col- lege and Institute Act.

A s p a r t o f a l a r g e r r e v i e w o f t h e p u b l i c p o s t - secondary education legislation, we consulted with BCIT about more streamlined legislation for our col- leges, university colleges and institutes. We examined the small difference in governance structures and op- erational frameworks between BCIT and other institu- tions to determine if they were meaningful and whether changes in legislation might help them man- age their administration activi ties more effectively. We learned there is overlap and inconsistency between the two acts.

For example, differences exist with respect to the level of discretion that the BCIT board and the other institutional boards may ex ercise when choosing be- tween bylaws and resolutions to help them make deci- sions.

The amendments we are putting forward today will clarify the governance powers of all boards by identifying those matters that must be governed through bylaws while providing boards the autonomy and flexibility to govern other matters through bylaws or resolutions as they deem appropriate. [1500] The object here is to have a legislative structure in place that is enabling rather than prescriptive and lim- iting, and one that applies uniformly to all of our col- leges, university colleges and institutes.

By repealing the Institute of Technology Act and including BCIT under the College and Institute Act, these amendments will eliminate unnecessary duplication that currently

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 28, 2004 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 10583 exists between the two acts and will streamline public post-secondary education legislation. While doing this, we are ensuring that BCIT retains the legislation it re- quires to fill its mandate as B.C.'s polytechnic institu- tion. During our discussions with institutions they told us they want boards of governors to have discretion to delegate authority to institutional presidents to ap- point, promote or remove employees.

This is some- thing university boards have been able to do for some time, and it seemed to us a reasonable option for the rest of the post-secondary sector as well. It also enables boards to act as appeal bodies for such decisions. Existing legislation unnecessarily restricts institu- tional boards in other ways . For example, the College and Institute Act requires ea ch board to appoint a bur- sar to exercise powers and perform duties assigned by the board, while the Institute of Technology Act per- mits but does not require the BCIT board to appoint a bursar.

Giving all boards the ability to appoint bursars when they deem it wise to do so gives them additional flexibility to do their jobs. It also reinforces boards' autonomy, better reflecting their role and range of re- sponsibilities. Naturally, boards will continue to operate within the financial and accountability frameworks estab- lished by government. I must also stress that the labour relations framework for all public colleges, university colleges and institutes will remain unchanged.

The existing personnel relations provisions of the College and Institute Act will continue to be applied to public colleges, university colleges and other institutes but will not be applied to BCIT. Instead, the unique per- sonnel relationship provisions of the Institute of Tech- nology Act will be added to the College and Institute Act and will pertain solely to BCIT, preserving BCIT's existing personnel relations environment. Similarly, provisions relating to representation of faculty and students on boards and education councils are not affected by these amendments.

Nor will these amendments have any impact on student associations. Throughout our review we looked very carefully at the language contained in the acts. We noted in the Institute of Technology Act that BCIT's purpose is de- scribed as providing, main taining and operating build- ings, equipment, facilities and services, and providing courses of instruction in technological and vocational matters and subjects. But this description has not kept pace with BCIT's development over the past few dec- ades. It doesn't reflect the institution that BCIT is today.

With the amendments of Bill 26, we're formalizing recognition of BCIT's role within our post-secondary system as a polytechnic institution providing courses of instruction in technological and vocational matters and subjects, and offering baccalaureate and applied degrees. These amendments fall wi thin our three-year ser- vice plan to cut and elimin ate red tape and to build a more efficient and integrated post-secondary system. They are consistent with our government's new-era commitments to remove unnecessary legislation and regulations that impede the efficient and effective de- livery of services.

They signal our confidence in the ability of institutions to make wise management deci- sions and to operate in a way that puts students first — a principle that is of first importance both to my minis- try and to this government. Motion approved. Hon. S. Bond: I move the bill be referred to a Committee of the Whole House to be considered at the next sitting of the House after today. Bill 26, College and Institute Amendment Act, 2004, read a second time and referred to a Committee of the Whole House for consideration at the next sitting of the House after today. Hon. R.

Coleman: I now call second reading of Bill 27. AGRICULTURAL LAND COMMISSION AMENDMENT ACT, 2004 Hon. G. Abbott: I move that the bill now be read a second time. [1505] The Ministry of Sustainable Resource Manage- ment proposes amendments to the Agricultural Land Commission Act. This bill reflects government's commitments to expedite treaty settlements with first nations and to provide them with abilities and obliga- tions similar in character to those of local govern- ments.

The purpose of the prop osed amendments is to allow first nations who are in volved in treaty negotia- tions or who have signed treaties a direct method of applying for changes to the agricultural land reserves that are in the final treaty settlement lands. The Agri- cultural Land Commission Act currently requires first nations in the treaty proce ss or those with treaty set- tlement land to obtain the approval of a local govern- ment before making an application to the Agricultural Land Commission.

The proposed amendments to the act would enable first nations to apply directly to the commission for approvals on ALR lands located within proposed and final treaty settlement lands. First nations will be re- quired to provide public notice and, where required by the regulation, to hold a public hearing for proposed changes within the agricultural land reserve. These obligations are similar to those that apply to local gov- ernments and landowners currently. These amendments do not affect the decision- making process of the commission.

The commission will consider these first nation applications in the same manner as applications from local governments and landowners. A decision of the commission under the proposed amendments would not take effect until a final treaty agreement has been reached and the first nation passes a law enacting the commission's decision.

10584 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, APRIL 28, 2004 These amendments will provide treaty negotiators with the necessary tools to bring information forward about allowable uses on land of interest to the first na- tions. This will assist the ne gotiators in reaching a final treaty settlement suitable to all parties. Treaty settle- ments, in turn, will encourage investment within the province by providing greater land use certainty and will benefit all British Columbians. Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to move second reading. G. Halsey-Brandt: I wish to speak briefly on this bill this afternoon.

I certainly concur with one part of the bill, but I do express concern with another portion. I assume that the first nations reserves in British Columbia are not subject to the Land Commission Act and regulations at the present time. That legislation is provincial, and the first nati ons reserves are federally regulated. Of course, with the treaty process that we are now engaged in with the first nations bands and as part of the treaty settlement, the bands may receive additional lands. Some of that property outside their existing reserves may be, at the present time, subject to the agricultural land reserve.

As I understand it, these lands as treaty settlement lands will be turned over to the first nations as part of the treaty, as fee simple lands rather than reserve status lands. Therefore, if they are covered by the Agricul- tural Land Commission regulations, then they will be subject to those uses. The bands, in order to take them out of the Agricultural Land Commission if they so wish, will have to go thro ugh the existing municipality they're in at the present time.

The part of the legislation that talks about when the treaties are finally made wi th our first nations bands, where they can apply directly to the Agricultural Land Commission, I think is a great step forward, and I cer- tainly agree with that portio n of the legislation. What I'm a little concerned about this afternoon — I hope the minister can perhaps expand on this during committee stage of the bill — is the part that allows first nations the ability to apply directly to the Agricultural Land C o m m i s s i o n t o r e m o v e l a n d f r o m t h e l a n d r e s e r v e a t the agreement-in-principle stage.

I say this because I think it creates two problems for the people of British Columbia. One is, of course, the tremendous expectations and pressures that we put on the commissioners of the agricultural land reserve, because whether a treaty may succeed or fail, in fact, may be based on the decision they render. I think that is really not fair. The second

part is that th e treaty process, in dealing with first nations, has spanned a number of years, and all the players at certain stages are aware in terms of openness of what lands are subject to discussion for addition to reserves as treaty settlement lands. All the surrounding citizens know that. [1510] The people know of the status of those lands at the time the negotiations take place. Therefore, to get to the agreement-in-principle st age and suddenly property changes in terms of whether it's in the ALR or not in the ALR, I think is unreasonable expectation to put on the surrounding community.

They believe that they're in the agricultural land reserve. They will continue to be in the agricultural land reserve after a treaty is set- tled, and the first nations co uld certainly then apply to the Agricultural Land Commission. But everyone knew they were in the reserve leading up to it. So I have some concerns around that part of the act, and I look forward to committee stage when we can address those and hopefully clarify that with the minis- ter. Motion approved. Hon. G.

Abbott: I move that the bill be referred to a Committee of the Whole House to be considered at the next sitting of the House after today. Bill 27, Agricultural Land Commission Amendment Act, 2004, read a second time and referred to a Com- mittee of the Whole House for consideration at the next sitting of the House after today. Hon. R. Coleman: I call second reading of Bill 34. PROVINCIAL REVENUE STATUTES AMENDMENT ACT, 2004 Hon. R. Thorpe: I move that Bill 34 be read a sec- ond time. This bill proposes a number of amendments to taxation and revenue statutes administered by the Min- istry of Provincial Revenue.

The measures included in this bill will help achieve our goals of fair, efficient and equitable administration of taxation and collection of outstanding moneys due to British Columbians. The Hotel Room Tax Act, the Motor Fuel Tax Act, the Social Service Tax Act and the Tobacco Tax Act are amended to add directors' liability provisions where due diligence has not been exercised. This is about providing protection to British Columbia taxpayers.

Under these provisions, directors of a corporation who have discharged their duties without due diligence may be held responsible for the corporation's failure to collect or remit taxes or pay security if the directors have not ensured that the corporation met its obliga- tions. The federal government and all other provinces except Newfoundland have similar due diligence pro- visions. Amendments are proposed to the Corporation Capital Tax Act and Income Tax Act to allow the prov- ince to respond to tax adjustments made by other ju- risdictions that have an impact on British Columbians.

The amendments will allow th e province to issue reas- sessments of taxation within one year of another prov- ince or federal government adjusting corporation taxes in that jurisdiction. This amendment protects British Columbians from the potential for double taxation and ensures that British Columbia receives all of the tax amounts due under the legislation.

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 28, 2004 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 10585 Waiver provisions are proposed for the Insurance Premium Tax Act and Mineral Tax Act. These provi- sions allow taxpayers to request a waiver of the six- year assessment limitation period in order to refute a proposed tax assessment. Waiver provisions were in- troduced last year for other taxation statutes. In addition, a number of housekeeping amend- ments are proposed in this bill. Amendments to the Income Tax Act will align the act with parallel provi- sions in the federal Income Tax Act.

Similar amend- ments are required each year to accommodate changes in the federal legislation. Amendments to the Property Transfer Act clarify that wh ere improvements straddle multiple land parcels, the parcels must be treated as a single parcel under the act. Amendments to the Corporation Capital Tax Act ensure that the revenue is protected from tax planning undertaken for the sole purpose of tax avoidance. The Insurance Premium Tax Act is amended to authorize information-sharing agreements with the Financial Institutions Commission. This amendment facilitates the administration of the act.

The Mineral Land Tax Act is amended to remove an outdated statutory requirement and to allow for electronic transmission of tax notices. Amendments to the Land Tax Deferment Act and the Taxation (Rural Area)Act remove spent provisions and update terms and

definitions to streamline property tax administra- tion. Finally, amendments are proposed to make long- standing tax applications explicit to ensure the clarity and transparency of statutes to the taxpayers of British Columbia. The Social Service Tax Act is amended to clarify tax that does not apply to lease tangible per- sonal property acquired by a lessor solely for the pur- pose of releasing it to others. [1515] The Motor Fuel Tax Act is amended to clarify that all fuel in excess of 182 litre s brought into the province in the supply tank or suppl emental tanks of a motor vehicle is subject to tax.

The Insurance Premium Tax Act is amended to explicit ly exclude commercial ma- rine insurance contracts other than pleasure craft in- surance from tax. This is co nsistent with the original intent of the act. The amendments proposed in this bill are consis- tent with our government's commitment to ensure fair, consistent and efficient trea tment of taxation and reve- nue collection processes. I move second reading of Bill 34. Motion approved. Hon. R. Thorpe: I move that the bill be referred to a Committee of the Whole House to be considered at the next sitting of the House after today.

Bill 34, Provincial Re venue Statutes Amendment Act, 2004, read a second time and referred to a Com- mittee of the Whole House for consideration at the next sitting of the House after today. Hon. R. Coleman: I now call Committee of Supply. For the information of members, we will be debating the estimates of the Ministry of Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Treaty Negotiations. Committee of Supply The House in Committee of Supply B; K. Stewart in the chair. The committee met at 3:17 p.m.

ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF ATTORNEY GENERAL AND MINISTRY RESPONSIBLE FOR TREATY NEGOTIATIONS On vote 11: ministry operations, $370,749,000. Hon. G. Plant: By agreement, I understand we will be proceeding first with th e estimates for the treaty negotiations office, one of the two ministerial responsi- bilities that I am privileged to have.

I am joined in the chamber by some people from the ministry who will probably need to help me from time to time deal with matters, including Lorne Brown- sey, the deputy minister of the treaty negotiations of- fice; Mike Furey, who is the assistant deputy minister of the treaty negotiations office; and Jim Crone, who is the assistant deputy minister responsible for manage- ment services in both ministries, the Attorney General and treaty negotiations office as well as the Solicitor General. I'm also joined and helped by Ingrid Fee, who is the director of corporate services for the treaty nego- tiations office.

It is an important year in the treaty process of Brit- ish Columbia — a year filled with opportunity but, as I think is no surprise to people who follow activities in this file, a year also filled with challenge. We find our- selves in this year at an unprecedented stage in the treaty process. We are now negotiating final agree- ments at four different tables in the treaty process across British Columbia. For the first time we are w i t h i n r e a c h o f f i n a l a g r e e m e n t s a t t a b l e s i n f o u r d i f - ferent parts of the province. I think it is probably high time that we reached that stage.

But I am very excite d about the opportunity pre- sented by that stage of progress to actually prove to the public of British Columbia that the treaty process can produce success stories and that through the treaty process, we will achieve agreements that will build recognition, will build reconciliation and will build arrangements founded on trus t and mutual respect.

As we construct arrangements through treaty negotia- tions, we will build the certainty that is needed to make progress in developing the lands and resources of the province. [1520] For far too long we have been held back as a prov- ince by our failure to resolve these long-outstanding issues. They are part of our history. Our failure to re- solve them is part of our history. They are part of the

10586 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, APRIL 28, 2004 moral landscape of British Columbia, and our failure to resolve these issues is part of the moral landscape of British Columbia. As we have wrestled with these challenges over decades — over, really, 133 years of our history as a province, a history more often characterized by denial than recognition — we have sometimes lost sight of the fact that in failing to resolve these long-outstanding issues, we have also held back our development as a province economically. Certainly, that has become true and more true in the years since the enactment, as part of the constitutional reforms in 1982, of

section 35(1) of the Constitution Act of 1982 wh ich, as members in this chamber know, is a statement of recognition and affir- mation of the existing aborig inal and treaty rights of the aboriginal people of Canada. That recognition and affirmation, contained as it is in a constitutional document, is far more than a politi- cal statement.

Over the last dozen years and more, the courts have said very clearly to governments, the pri- vate sector and first nations that the recognition and affirmation of aboriginal rights and title in the constitu- tion is a statement that has legal as well as political consequences. We know that aboriginal rights and title exist, we know they exist across the landscape of the province, and we know that their existence poses and imposes obligations on governments. But there are lots of things, too many things, we don't know about aborigi- nal rights and title.

There is no book, like a land regis- try office, that you can go to and punch a button and find out with certainty exactly who has which aborigi- nal rights or the location in precise terms of aboriginal title and, indeed, who holds aboriginal title. We don't know exactly — in fact, we really don't even know very much yet at all — about the precise dimensions of the relationship between aboriginal rights and title, on the one hand, and Crown rights and third-party rights and title on the other. We do know that these rights exist, and we do know that they have to exist somehow together on the same landscape.

I think it was Chief Justice Lamer who said, in the famous last words of his judgment in the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Delgamuukw: "Let's face it. We're all here to stay." Those were his words. We don't know yet enough about the details of the interaction of those rights, and we certainly don't know very much about the details of the interaction of those many rights on a case-by-case basis, on a parcel- by-parcel basis, on a hectare-by-hectare basis across the landscape of British Columbia. There are different ways to achieve the certainty that would come from resolving those questions.

One path is certainly litigation. It's a path that has been fol- lowed. It's a path that continues to be followed in the courts today. The other path — and, I think, the better path — is the path of negotiation. When you negotiate, when you sit at a table voluntarily, committed to try to resolve issues, you have the ability and the opportunity to shape a future that works for you and for the others with whom you are negotiatin g.

The treaty process is fundamentally about negotiat ion to achieve certainty around who has what rights; to achieve certainty about what those rights mean, wh o has what obligations and what processes will be followed in decision-making.

Through that certainty, I am convinced that we will free up stranded assets across the province, that we will find ways to develop economic opportunities that will provide benefits for first nations and for all British Columbians, and that we will find that the province becomes a bigger, stronger, he althier, more prosperous place with treaty settlements than it has been without treaty settlements. [1525] It's been a challenge over the last dozen years to get us to this point, and I freely acknowledge that we've spent a lot of money. A lot of tax dollars have been spent.

First nations have borrowed hundreds of mil- lions of dollars by this point — certainly in the tens of millions of dollars — across this province as they have worked to support their own efforts at treaty tables and as all three parties at each of the tables around the province have done the detailed work of trying to sort out the issues and reach ag reement on the framework that is most appropriate at that table for resolving the issues. We've certainly been at it a while, and we've spent a lot of money, but now, at last, I think we are close to breakthrough successes.

Over the last year, in keeping with the direction that I was given by the Prem ier, by cabinet and by the government caucus, we worked hard to see if we could get to agreement-in-principle at about half a dozen tables around the province. We looked strategically for opportunities for success. I think we did that work well. As a result of that work and the commitment and effort by first nations negotiators at tables around the province, and also the commi tment and effort by the government of Canada, we actually achieved agreement-in-principle at four of those tables, and we're close at a fifth table.

We achieved agreement- in-principle, and we are now negotiating final agreemen ts at tables in the Pow- ell River area with the Sl iammon first nation, in the lower mainland with the Tsawwassen first nation, in the Prince George area with the Lheidli-T'enneh first nation and on the west coast of Vancouver Island with five Nuu-chah-nulth first nations who call themselves the Maa-nulth. We have an initialled ag reement. That is a docu- ment that has been initialled and recommended by the negotiators for the three pa rties at the Snuneymuxw table in Nanaimo.

But if that particular table, the Snuneymuxw first nation, aren't ready yet to make the decision about whether they support that agreement- in-principle…. While I would love to take that step forward to secure their agreement, that is a decision for that community, the Snuneymuxw community. We will wait for them to make that decision and to make it in their own time. But with that exception, we've got four tables where we are working towa rds final agreements. I have said over the last few weeks, when I have been

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 28, 2004 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 10587 travelling around the provin ce, that I'd like nothing better than to go and travel around the province a year from now and report that we actually achieved final agreements at some or all of those four tables. That is a very high-level outline of the work we've been doing to try to achieve what I would describe as pretty much the central mandate of the treaty negotia- tions office.

But we've done more than that to build certainty, to help make a difference in the lives of abo- riginal people in British Columbia, to help create eco- nomic opportunities and to help build strong relation- ships. In particular, over the last two years, following a throne speech commitment and under the leadership of the Premier, we've worked hard to fund economic de- velopment opportunities across the province for first nations both inside and outs ide the treaty process.

We have looked across the landscape of the province for opportunities to work with first nations where they h a v e s o m e i d e a , s o m e v i s i o n o f w h a t t h e y w a n t t o achieve for their own communities but are held back because — as is all too often the case — they may lack the training or they may not have within their commu- nity the resources to put toge ther a business plan or to fund a feasibility study. They may simply need a bit of work to try to create the opportunity for a partnership with a private sector company.

There is a whole host of things we can do as a gov- ernment, and have been doing as a government, to try to level the playing field, to open up opportunities for first nations.

Indeed, over the last two years as a gov- ernment, under the administration of this ministry, we have now funded and supported something like 145 different projects around the province, representing $26.3 million of provincial commitment, to try to make a difference in the lives of first nations, to try to give them a sense of hope and optimism about the potential that they have, and to try to see how it is possible for first nations economic development to work hand-in- hand with economic development for the rest of the province. [1530] That is again consistent with the theme, the Pre- mier's consistent message, that we can make a differ- ence in aboriginal lives now.

We do so not just because we want to help make a difference in aboriginal lives but because as we open up opportunities for first na- tions, we open up opportunities for all British Colum- bians. Let me just tell a couple of stories about a couple of these initiatives that I thin k are important and exciting and connected with other initiatives we have under- taken as a government. Last week I had the opportu- nity, along with my colleague the Minister of State for Mining, to visit the small community of Yekooche.

Ye- kooche is located about 90 kilometres down a logging r o a d , w e s t o f t h e s m a l l t o w n o f F o r t S t . J a m e s , o n t h e northwest arm of Stewart Lake. It's a long way away from downtown Vancouver. I t ' s a c o m m u n i t y o f p e o p l e t h a t h a v e b e e n t h e r e , living on the land and trying to find a future for them- selves, for a very long time. It is also a community that's been beset by trouble for a very long time. It was an amazing thing for my colleague and I to visit this community. I think we may have been the first cabinet ministers ever to visit this community.

Half the town turned out. We had a wonderful lunch in the gym, we saw kids singing and dancing, and we had a great chance to tour the town. This is a community that has a pretty troubled his- tory. Not very long ago, in a community of 170 or 180 people, 30 of their children were kids in the care of the ministry. Not very long ago it wasn't a very safe place to walk down the main street because there really wasn't much in the way of civil or der in this community. So over time — recent time — governments, including this government, have tried to help turn that around.

We put a police officer in place in the community. The presence of a police officer has helped create a sense of order and civil stability in the community. There are now social worker services available more than was the case not so very long ago in that commu- nity. Houses have been built. In the very recent past, 30 n e w h o u s e s h a v e b e e n b u i l t i n t h a t c o m m u n i t y .

A s I had a walk up and down the ma in street of the village, the woman who is a member of the band council and was escorting me pointed to a house that I would think could be accurately described as a modest house by the standards of almost any suburb in British Columbia. Yet not so very long ago it was a little house where 25 people tried to live together under one roof — not very adequate for the twenty-first century in Canada. This is a community that has decided to seize its own agenda, to seize its own future, and they are actu- ally making great progress.

They were virtually bank- rupt just a few years ago. They're now making great progress in the treaty process. Here is what is interest- ing, in addition to all of that, about the little village of Yekooche. In addition to all the other trouble this community has faced, it sits right in the heart of the beetle-kill problem. There has been extensive logging that has taken place over the years, and unfortunately most of the forest resources in the area they claim as their traditional territory are at risk of further damage, if not destruction, by the continued expansion of the mountain pine beetle.

Rather than sit back an d await that calamity pas- sively, this is a community that has decided to re-shift its economic focus. One of the things I was there with my colleague the Minister of State for Mining to an- nounce was the fact that through our economic devel- opment funding, we made available $200,000 to that community to help train ten members of that commu- nity as prospectors, because they may be surrounded by a forest in trouble, bu t they're also surrounded by lands that have tremendous mineral potential.

We have helped support these people to rethink and refocus their energy into a new direction that may create all kinds of opportunity for them in the future. That's some of the work we have been able to do with the economic development fund ing. That's just one of the 145 projects that have b een funded over the last couple of years through the treaty negotiations office.

10588 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, APRIL 28, 2004 [1535] Another example — and the only one I will trouble you with now, Mr. Chair — is a little closer to your community, but not that close yet. It's the community of Yale, a little town just a few miles up the Fraser River from Hope, which generations of British Colum- bia school kids have been taught was the head of navi- gation in the Fraser River.

It's the place where gold was discovered in 1858 to launch the gold rush that was really the beginning of the political history of what became the province of British Columbia, because it was the mainland colony that was established as a re- sult of the gold rush. Of course, that is also the home of the Yale first nation. In fact, the place where gold was discovered in 1858 is called Hills Bar. Hills Bar lies pretty much at the heart of the asserted traditional territory of the Yale first nation.

It's the area th at they have identified in treaty negotiations as most important to them in land selection, but it is also an area where there are and have been mineral licences, mineral tenure, granted over time — in particular, tenure that would, if allowed to develop and mature through government processes, allow a gravel mining operation to take place.

What we have is the standard recipe for paralysis in British Columbia — the potential of a conflict between the assertion of aboriginal rights and title at the heart of a traditional territory, where no doubt there is the issue of the potential of archaeological sites and those sorts of things, with the fact that there are some private sec- tor people who very much want the opportunity to develop some resources that they think are there on that territory.

S o w h a t w e h a v e d o n e a s a g o v e r n m e n t , p a r t l y t o respond to the progress that's being made at the treaty table and partly to assist in resolving in a constructive way this potential for conflict, is that we have — among other things — protected the Hills Bar land by using various statutory mechan isms to assure that the land will be there at the end of the day when we get the final agreement at the Yale fi rst nation table.

We have also, through economic development funding, helped create a situation where the first nation and the private sector mining company have begun to work in a joint venture which I hope will be perfected over time and, assuming that the environmental assessment processes can be completed satisfactorily, will in fact result in — I hope will result in — the development and exploitation of a gravel mine on Hills Bar. Let me just say a little bit about what that means. The proven reserves of gravel in the Hills Bar deposit exceed half a billion tonnes of gravel.

You don't have to pay very much attention to roadbuilding in the lower mainland of British Columbia to know that, in fact, we're starting to have a bit of a challenge in finding enough gravel and aggregat e material to supply the roadbuilding needs in the lower mainland. Hills Bar is actually on the right side of the river — that is, it's on the correct si de of the river. It's on the downhill side of the river for the railway coming into town, coming from the interi or into Vancouver.

If we can develop the gravel resources on Hills Bar and put them on the railcars, they can be shipped into the lower mainland where we will have all the gravel we need to build roads in the future. Indeed, that gravel will be available to be shipped for a profit to California — a tremendous opportunity for the people of the Yale first nation, for jobs for that community, for jobs for the neighbouring communities in which they live and who knows what opportunity for economic development for all people who live in the lower mainland.

Now, those are a couple of stories that take a little bit longer to tell than might ordinarily be the case, but I think that as we do this work as government, the best way to measure progress is by looking at the success stories that exist and by understanding the opportuni- ties that we are starting to create. [1540] Are there challenges? Th ere are indeed. There will continue to be challenges. A third of first nations in British Columbia are not in the treaty process.

It con- tinues to be a challenge to create relationships with those first nations that allow us to work together in an atmosphere of mutual trust and respect, but we are going to continue to try. There are some tables where although they're formally part of the treaty process, we are not making much progress in the treaty process. I acknowledge that we have challenges there. But this is a great year for treaty-making in British Columbia, a year where I think we are going to be able to show that success is possible and that we can reach final agree- ments.

I look forward to the opportunity to discuss these issues in this portion of the estimates debate. The Chair: Just prior to giving the floor to the member for Vancouver–Mount Pleasant, I must add that there is a lot of speculation up in Yale about the gold content in Hills Bar too, so there's another poten- tial there. I just thought I'd add that in. [Laughter.] J. Kwan: I would almost say that would be taking advantage of the Chair's position as the Chair to put that comment in, but anyway, we'll let it go.

I do want to put this opening statement forward, and I understand that the member for Bulkley Valley– Stikine may have some questions for the minister. To facilitate the government members' opportunity to ask some questions of the minister, I will yield the floor first to him, but I want to put this on record. When he opened, the Attorney General said that by agreement, the opposition is going to canvass the treaty negotiations office issues fi rst with the minister. I want to put this on record: there was no contact from any- body from the government side with respect to that.

The member for Chilliwack-Kent, who is the MA to the Minister of Finance, didn't contact us with respect to what issues were to be brought up. In fact, it wasn't my intention, when I came up, to begin the estimates de- bate with this issue. I do want to say that th ings change continually, and we're always just on alert in terms of what issues and what area to begin with in our debates with the gov-

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 28, 2004 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 10589 ernment side. I want to put that on record, but with that, I will certainly be asking the minister many ques- tions in this area amongst ot her areas as well. But as I said, the member for Bulkley Valley–Stikine would like to canvass some questions with the minister, and I am first going to yield the floor to him. D. MacKay: To the Attorney General, I'm going to deal first of all, obviously, on the treaty negotiation side of his ministry.

I have several questions that have been brought to my attention by constituents, and I would like to stress the fact that the issues I'm going to bring up today are, in fact, issues that have been brought to me by constituen ts. Although I share some of the same sentiments my constituents do, these issues are coming from constituents. I would just like to set the tone for my questions I'm going to be asking the minister today as we relate to the treaty negotiations side of his ministry.

The first thing I'm going to do is go into his estimates manual and look at page 42, dealing with the operating ex- pense for the treaty negotiations office. I notice that under the '04-05 estimates, we're actually seeing a de- crease in the net amount of money, but I notice external recoveries at $830,000. I wonder if the minister could explain to me the recovery of $830,000. How was that achieved? [1545] Hon. G.

Plant: I'm informed that some or all of that money relates to the commitment in the Nisga'a final agreement that, in effect, the Nisga'a would be saved harmless in respect of the prospective revenue to them from tree harvesting operatio ns on their territory over a transitional period. Becaus e of a decline in the value of the resources, there was less call on that money — so less that we've had to pay out. That apparently trans- lates its way, through the magic of accounting, into the presentation of that number there. D. MacKay: If I understand, the $830,000 was re- lated to the Nisga'a treaty.

I notice from the nodding of the head that was a yes. Thank you, minister. I ' d l i k e t o t a k e y o u t o p a g e 4 5 n o w , i n t h e s a m e manual. I wonder if the minister could explain this to m e .

T h i s i s o n p a g e 4 5 , under the "Voted Appropria- tions Description." It says the subvote "provides for strategic management and direction of the office, in- cluding a deputy minister's office, the province's par- ticipation in the negotiation of treaties and other ar- rangements with first nations and the federal govern- ment, including consultation with third parties and others…." Who is captured in the word "others"? Hon. G.

Plant: The phrase "consultation with third parties and others" is, I th ink, a compendious phrase intended to take into account the fact that the treaty negotiations office supports, sometimes through fund- ing, consultation efforts with local governments, with some business and community associations. An exam- ple would be that in the case of the Lheidli-T'enneh treaty table, we have supported a treaty advisory committee in the Prince George regional district.

I'm told that in '03-04 there were over 80 stakeholder meet- ings for provincewide and other consultations, includ- ing meetings with the UBCM executive, local chambers of commerce, the B.C. Woodlot Associations, the B.C. Utilities Advisory Council, the B.C. Wildlife Federation and the Council of Forest Industries. Presumably there were others. D. MacKay: Based on the answ er, then, I'm assum- ing that the funds were in fact allocated for municipali- ties to attend negotiating tables. Is that the…? Hon. G. Plant: These are process dollars.

They're provided to support the consultation work that the ministry does with the groups that I referred to in my last answer, although we do support some initiatives at some of the lead tables to ensure that local govern- ments and community groups can — with a minimum of their own expense — participate meaningfully in consultation with us about the issues that are impor- tant to them. D. MacKay: Again on page 45, looking at the eco- nomic development fund at $10 million…. Is that a one-time fund that has be en set aside for economic development opportunities for the natives? Is it a one- time fund? [1550] Hon.

G. Plant: It was a three-year fund, and there was, I think, $10 million in '02-03. Then the member has in front of him the $10 million figure for '03-04 and the $7 million figure for '04-05. At present it is not antici- pated that the fund will continue. D. MacKay: You may have answered my next question. The decrease from $10 million to $7 million doesn't indicate the expenditures of roughly $3 million. This is an additional $7 million that was added to the economic development fund. Hon. G.

Plant: The original intention was to create a three-year fund totalling $30 million, and we cer- tainly were able to set aside the $10 million in the first year and the $10 million in the second year. As part of the budgeting process leadin g up to the budget for the year '04-05, we as government made some deci- sions to continue to pursue our shared collective goal of balancing the budget in '04-05. One of the decisions we made was that we woul d reduce the prospective amount available in this fund to $7.042 million. That's the total amount available for expenditure in this fund in the current fiscal ye ar.

I should say that I be- lieve pretty much all of it is now committed to exist- ing projects. D. MacKay: Given the fact that we're into our third year then, when this $7 m illion has been spent, what h a p p e n s w h e n t h e f u n d g o e s d r y ? I s t h a t i t ? I s t h e r e

10590 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, APRIL 28, 2004 any more money going to be put into this economic development fund? [J. Weisbeck in the chair.] Hon. G. Plant: Let me say that I'm going to con- tinue to work hard to do what I can to help the gov- ernment find the fiscal resources to support this kind of work, but at present there are no plans to continue this past the current fiscal year. It may be helpful to the member in terms of under- standing how this operates that I actually referred to the fund in my opening comments, when I said we had funded about 145 projects worth more than $26 million.

These are all discrete proj ects. They're one-time pro- jects. Some of them may be multi-year projects, but they are discrete. They ar e finite. They are project agreements entered into that have a beginning and an end date. They are not kind of ongoing operating fund- ing for activities; they are much more project-based. What's happening now is that we are essentially wind- ing up the projects that we had previously committed funding for. D. MacKay: In those funds that are provided to the natives for their economic opportunities in the prov- ince, what accountability provisions have been built into that?

Does anybody check to see if, in fact, the money has been well spent and if we're getting what we thought we would get from the money that is being provided? Hon. G. Plant: Each of the projects is funded by means of an agreement, an d some of the agreements are pretty comprehensive. They all contain time lines, they all contain expected outcomes, and they connect the expected outcomes to ti me lines. There is perform- ance measurement built into the contracts.

Many of the contracts are funded on a staged or phased basis, where in order to get the seco nd or the third tranche of money, you've got to actually be able to satisfy that you have done everything you we re required to do in the first stage. We have been subject to audits, and I think there is a manager in the ministry with specific project respon- sibility around this initiative. We have been working h a r d t o e n s u r e t h a t I c a n b e i n a p o s i t i o n t o a n s w e r questions about performanc e measurement and about accountability, like the kinds of questions the member just asked. D.

MacKay: Based on the last two years, then what is our success rate? Do we have a success rate and a failure rate? Do you know what those are? [1555] Hon. G. Plant: I don't think we have yet had a comprehensive review done of the projects as a whole, but if you go back to what I was saying earlier about what we were trying to do with some of these projects, it's easy to measure some kind of success.

For example, in Campbell River we funded an engineering feasibility study concerning the possibility of building a cruise ship facility in Campbell River just immediately adja- cent to the Campbell River Indian reserve in down- town Campbell River. The work was done, the feasibil- ity study was completed, and the Campbell River In- dian band has done extens ive work with the federal government.

I'm afraid I don't know what the status of that project is at the moment, but they've certainly done a lot of work over the years to try to encourage the federal government to a ssist in funding the actual construction of the dock, which would be — as I recall — a $3 million project. We've done projects where we have trained first nations in doing guide and outfitting work, and the net result of that is that we have actually provided the training of ten or 15 first nations people in one of these projects.

The objective was to give young aboriginal people the training that they would need to participate in an industry. The same thing in tourism. I participated in an an- nouncement involving shellfish aquaculture with the Halalt first nation, who want to expand their involve- ment in shellfish aquaculture in the Ladysmith-Crofton area of Vancouver Island. One of the parts of that pro- ject was to introduce some young people in that com- munity to what it means to work in shellfish aquacul- ture, give them instruction in things like marine first aid, how to operate boats and all that stuff.

We've done work that incl udes irrigation projects where people have…. Well, here's another example of a p r o j e c t t h a t w e f u n d e d . I n S h u s w a p I n d i a n b a n d w e helped fund the construction of a concrete groundwa- ter reservoir. That was unusual in that the dollars in that project went to actual ly build something. I was there. It was pretty much nearly built the day I was there with the MLA for Columbia River–Revelstoke, and I'm sure if it wasn't fi nished soon thereafter, it's been finished.

On a case-by-case basis we have had some of the successes that we want, for sure, and some of the pro- jects are still underway. It will be a while yet before we know if the investment that we've made makes the difference that we were hoping it would make. D. MacKay: Just to go back to the guide-outfitting school that the minister sp oke about, I understand from speaking to people in my part of the province that that in fact was a great success story and did provide employment opportunities for a number of young na- tive people who attended that program.

Do you know what the status of the funding is for that school? Did the money come from the economic development fund, or where did it come from for that training? Hon. G. Plant: I'm told the funding for that initia- tive did come from what we called the economic meas- ures fund. We have had some discussions with the Guide Outfitters Association people who, I believe, have expressed a desire that the project or the work continue to be funded. We have told them we don't

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 28, 2004 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 10591 have the money beyond where we're at now, but that we are going to continue to look and see if we can find some opportunities to continue to support that work. D. MacKay: Well, that is encouraging, given the fact that I know this proj ect is working. The funding was being well spent, and it was creating employment opportunities for the natives in the province, so I'm glad to hear that we're look ing at finding ways to find money to continue with that program. I'm pleased to hear that. Obviously, the funding for this year has dried up, but for next year you're

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	h0428pm-07
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	h0428pm 07
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	82f53e82fb88308b9bfdcbb7935e92d9f121c300

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