Manitoba Hansard — 2 May 2011 (Sitting 38, 39th Legislature, 5th Session)

39-5-38

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Fifth Session - Thirty-Ninth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. LXIII No. 38 – 1:30 p.m., Monday, May 2, 2011 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Ninth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLAN, Nancy, Hon. St. Vital N.D.P. ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson N.D.P. BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli N.D.P. BLADY, Sharon Kirkfield Park N.D.P. BLAIKIE, Bill, Hon. Elmwood N.D.P. BOROTSIK, Rick Brandon West P.C. BRAUN, Erna Rossmere N.D.P. BRICK, Marilyn St. Norbert N.D.P. BRIESE, Stuart Ste. Rose P.C. CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P. CULLEN, Cliff Turtle Mountain P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P.

DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside P.C. FAURSCHOU, David Portage la Prairie P.C. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach P.C. GRAYDON, Cliff Emerson P.C. HICKES, George, Hon. Point Douglas N.D.P. HOWARD, Jennifer, Hon. Fort Rouge N.D.P. IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri, Hon. Fort Garry N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. JHA, Bidhu Radisson N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns N.D.P. MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MARCELINO, Flor, Hon. Wellington N.D.P.

MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McFADYEN, Hugh Fort Whyte P.C. McGIFFORD, Diane Lord Roberts N.D.P. MELNICK, Christine, Hon. Riel N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East P.C. NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake N.D.P. OSWALD, Theresa, Hon. Seine River N.D.P. PEDERSEN, Blaine Carman P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. RONDEAU, Jim, Hon. Assiniboia N.D.P. ROWAT, Leanne Minnedosa P.C. SARAN, Mohinder The Maples N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield P.C. SELBY, Erin, Hon. Southdale N.D.P. SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St. Boniface N.D.P. STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon.

Dauphin-Roblin N.D.P. SWAN, Andrew, Hon. Minto N.D.P. TAILLIEU, Mavis Morris P.C. WHITEHEAD, Frank The Pas N.D.P. WIEBE, Matt Concordia N.D.P. WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. Swan River N.D.P. Vacant Inkster Vacant Lac du Bonnet

1287 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Monday, May 2, 2011 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Mr. Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee t o f r a m e s u c h l a w s a s may tend to the welfare and prosperity of our province. Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may seek it with wisdom, know it with certainty and accomplish it perfectly for the glory and honour of Thy name and for the welfare of all our people. Amen.

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 27–The Manitoba Ukrainian Canadian Heritage Day Act Hon. Rosann Wowchuk (Minister of Finance): I move, seconded by the Minister of Innovation, Energy and Mines (Mr. Chomiak), that Bill 27, The Manitoba Ukrainian Canadian Heritage Day Act, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Ms. Wowchuk: Mr. Speaker, as a Canadian of Ukrainian descent I'm very pleased to introduce this bill that proclaims the last Saturday of July of every year as Manitoba Ukrainian Canadian Heritage Day. Mr.

Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] PETITIONS PTH 16 and PTH 5 North–Traffic Signals Mr. Stuart Briese (Ste. Rose): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. These are the reasons for this petition: The junction of PTH 5 and PTH 5–PTH 16 and PTH 5 north is an increasingly busy intersection which is used by motorists and pedestrians alike. The Town of Neepawa ha s raised concerns with the Highway Traffic Board about safety levels at this intersection.

The Town of Neepawa has also passed a resolution requesting that Manitoba Infrastructure and Transportation install traffic lights at this intersection in order to increase safety. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation to consider making the installation of traffic lights at the intersection of PTH 16 and PTH 5 north a priority project in order to help protect the safety of the motorists and pedestrians who use it. This petition is signed by J. Blahitka, K. Hermiston, K. Smith and many, many other fine Manitobans. Mr.

Speaker: In accordance with our rule 132(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House. Auto Theft–Court Order Breaches Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Good afternoon, Mr. Speaker. I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. This is the background–the background for this petition is as follows: On December 11th of 2009, in Winnipeg, Zdzislaw Andrzejczak was killed when the car that he was driving collided with a stolen vehicle. The death of Mr.

Andrzejczak, a husband and a father, along with too many other deaths and injuries involving stolen vehicles, was a preventable tragedy. Many of those accused in fatalities involving stolen vehicles were previously known to police and identified as chronic and high-risk car thieves who had court orders against them. Chronic car thieves pose a risk to the safety of all Manitobans. We petition the Legislative Assembly as follows: To request the Minister of Justice to consider ensuring that all court orders for car thieves are vigorously monitored and enforced.

And to request the Minister of Justice to consider ensuring that all breaches of court orders on car thieves are reported to police and vigorously prosecuted.

1288 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 2, 2011 Mr. Speaker, this petition is signed by C. Patzer, L. Decker, I. Friesen and thousands of other Manitobans. Convicted Auto Thieves–Denial of MPI Benefits Mr. Blaine Pedersen (Carman): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows: In Manitoba, a car thief convicted of stealing a vehicle involved in a car accident is eligible to receive compensation and assistance for personal injury from Manitoba Public Insurance.

Too many Manitoba families have had their lives tragically altered by motor vehicle accidents involving car thieves and stolen vehicles. It is an injustice to victims, their families and law-abiding Manitobans that MPI premiums are used to benefit car thieves involved in those accidents. We petition the Legislative Assembly as follows: To request that the Minister of Justice deny all MPI benefits to a person fo r injuries received in an accident if he or she is involved–if he or she is convicted of stealing a motor vehicle involved in the accident. And this petition is signed by G. Currie, K. Currie, A.

Currie and many more fine Manitobans. Bipole III–Cost to Manitoba Families Mr. Peter Dyck (Pembina): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And the background for this–to this petition is as follows: Manitoba Hydro has been directed by the provincial government to construct its next high voltage direct transmission line, Bipole III, down the west side of Manitoba. This will cost each family of four in Manitoba $11,748 more than an east-side route, which is also shorter and more reliable.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to build the Bipole III transmission line on the shorter and more reliable east side of Lake Winnipeg in order to save each Manitoba family of four $11,748. And this is signed by A. Sager, M. Bergman, L. Andrew and many, many others. TABLING OF REPORTS Hon. Rosann Wowchuk (Min ister responsible for the Civil Service Commission): Mr. Speaker, I'm pleased to table the 2011-12 Supplementary Information for the Ma nitoba Civil Service Commission. Hon.

Stan Struthers (Acting Minister of Conservation): It's my pleasure to introduce the–and table–the 2011-2012 Departmental Expenditure Estimates for Manitoba Conservation and the 2011-2012 Estimates for the Manitoba Sustainable Development Innovation Fund. * (13:40) MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS Holocaust Memorial Day Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Yes, Mr. Speaker, I have a ministerial statement for the House. Today, May 2nd, we join with people all over the world to observe Yom Hashoah or Holocaust Memorial Day.

On May 1st, 2000, Manitoba's Legislative Assembly unanimously passed Bill 19, The Holocaust Memorial Day Act, which recognizes Holocaust Memorial Day in Manitoba in honour of the millions of people who perished under Nazi persecution. Although the Holocaust took place decades ago in another part of the world, Manitobans are directly connected to this atrocity. The names that are honoured on the monument here on the Legislative grounds are evidence of that vital link. Last fall, I had the privilege of attending the Jewish Federation of Winnipeg's annual mission to Israel.

There, we toured the Yad Vashem, which heartbreakingly chronicles and humanizes this horrific crime against all of humanity. It is hard to comprehend that six million women, men and children were killed for no other reason than hatred. When you see the pictures of some of the actual people whose lives were destroyed, it becomes all too real. Today, on Yom Hashoah, as we remember this world-changing event, remember the victims who perished. We remember their families and friends and we renew our commitment to vigilance against

May 2, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1289 this idea of senseless cruelty. Let us continue to work together to ensure this tragic history is never repeated. Commemorating Yom Hashoah keeps us conscious of the inhumanity and injustices the world has witnessed in the past, challenging us to bring an end to the many injustices that still occur today. These international events are not only an opportunity to reflect on the past, they also give us the opportunity to discuss the progress we have made in the human rights arena, as well as the challenges that lie before us.

As members of the international community, we must continue to ensure that this tragic part of human history is never repeated and never forgotten. Mr. Speaker, following statements by my colleagues, I ask that all members observe a moment of silence in memory of those who suffered and died in the Holocaust. Mr. Hugh McFadyen (Leader of the Official Opposition): And I want to support the Premier's request for a moment of silence today to acknowledge Yom Hashoah. This is the day of remembrance of the terrible atrocities of the Holocaust which took place less than a century ago in the continent of Europe. Mr.

Speaker, the systematic and planned murder of millions of people is something that continues to shock the conscience of all people regardless of background, and it is important for all generations to continue to remind ourselves of the capacity of humans to commit such terrible acts when they are at their worst. Mr. Speaker, I, along with the Premier, the Minister of Energy (Mr. Chomiak), Minister of Water Stewardship (Ms.

Melnick), Mel and Karyn Lazareck, Marty Morantz and other members of Winnipeg's Jewish community all had the privilege in October of visiting Israel and, of course, touring Yad Vashem, which the Premier has referred to. It was a jarring reminder of the horrible acts that took place, the incredible suffering of those many millions of people who were singled out for no reason other than their cultural and religious identities. Mr.

Speaker, the purpose of these memorials is to not only remind ourselves of these terrible actions from the past but to pass along to the next generation the facts about what has happened throughout history, to remind all citizens of the fact that the world today continues to be a place where horrific acts are committed against innocent people and to ensure that the memory of these events is not lost and to ensure that the next generation is reminded of the need to fight always for the dignity of all people, for the values of freedom, democracy and respect for those who may be different from ourselves, respect for different religious and cultural traditions, respect for difference, however that difference may manifest itself.

And, so, Mr. Speaker, I was honoured today, and also saddened, to be part of the process this morning at the reading of the names and also the attendance at the Holocaust Memorial on the grounds of this building to both remember and participate in the events of today. So I want to support the Premier's call for a moment of silence, thank everybody who was involved in organizing today's Yom Hashoah, including those great choirs and singers and performers who were part of these events. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, I ask leave to speak to the Premier's statement. Mr.

Speaker: Does the honourable member have leave? [Agreed] Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, I join with other members of the Legislat ure in recognizing Yom Hashoah, the holy Holocaust Memorial Day, and as the Premier (Mr. Se linger) has had an opportunity to visit the Holocaust Memorial Museum in Israel, so have I, and, indeed, the one in Washington, as well, and they are very moving tributes, memorials to the most unfortunate and sad, sorrowful events that happened in the Second World War during the Holocaust. This morning, as with others, I participated in to–in the memorial. Unto Every Person There is a Name.

I think it is an incredible way of personalizing this tragedy, and it was very moving to listen to Barbara Goszer, as she described the murders of her relatives and recollected about some of these events. Certainly, it is an opportunity for us to remember not only the genocide that happened in the Second World War but that which happened in the Ukraine in the 1930s and more recently has happened in places like Rwanda, and it's also an opportunity to dedicate ourselves to ending such genocides and, indeed, to fighting the racism and the hate that breeds such genocide.

1290 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 2, 2011 And we need to be thankful we have a democracy in Canada and that we are exercising that democratic right today, and we have discovered and use peaceful ways to solve our differences and to try to build a better country and a better society. Thank you. Mr. Speaker: Is there agreement for a moment of silence. [Agreed] A moment of silence was observed. * (13:50) Flooding and Ice Jams Update Hon. Christine Melnic k (Minister of Water Stewardship): Yes, Mr. Speaker, I have a statement for the House.

I would like to provide an update on the current flood situation on behalf of the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation (Mr. Ashton). The storm that hit the prairies over the weekend brought significant snow and rainfall across much of the province and served as a stark reminder of how quickly things can change when you are dealing with the forces of nature. This serious storm tragically claimed the lives of five people: two soldiers from CFB Shilo and three from the Hamiota area.

Our sincere condolences go out to the family and friends, and we wish the other individuals involved in these accidents full recoveries. The precipitation from this storm is expected to prolong the duration and volume of the flood but will not add to crests. The majority of flood protection systems across the province held despite precipitation and extreme winds that caused waves several feet high along some dikes. The storm also resulted in many road clos ures and the precautionary evacuation of 13 homes in St-Lazare outside of the community dike due to the loss of road access.

Water levels in Bran don are now the second highest recorded in history. They have surpassed the 1923 peak water levels only. Flood protection dikes in the area are well above the upper range of the forecasted peak, which is expected around May the 12th. Work to reinforce dikes along the Assiniboine River is continuing in the RMs of Cartier, St. François Xavier and Headingley as a precautionary measure to handle additional flows being released down the Assiniboine River. These flows will contribute to the crest at James Avenue in Winnipeg, which is expected around Wednesday. Mr.

Speaker, I would like to note our collective success in saving homes and communities. This year is a direct testament to the many Manitobans who are working hard and flood fighting with determination and creativity. This storm reminds us all that while we have been very lucky with the weather we've had, things can certainly change. We remain vigilant and will continue to work to provide the best possible protection for Manitoba families. Mr. Stuart Briese (Ste. Rose): Mr. Speaker, I thank the minister for the latest update.

I note that May 1st to 7th is Emergency Preparedness Week in Canada, and events of the past few weeks have certainly driven home the importance of being ready in the event of a natural disaster or other potential calamity. This weekend's major snowstorm and rains were not a welcome development for those on the front lines of the flood fight. Power outages and the loss of telephone services in some communities undoubtedly added to the challenges of those trying to deal with the flooding.

As the minister has pointed out, additional moisture will only extend the duration of the flood and the negative impacts it is having. We cannot state often enough how much we appreciate the efforts of those working so tirelessly to try and reduce the impact of the flood on their fellow Manitobans. Many have worked for weeks without a day off and we salute their ongoing dedication. I would also like to extend our condolences to the families of those who lost loved ones during the weekend storm, of motor vehicle accidents and a snowmobile accident. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr.

Speaker, I ask leave to speak to the minister's statement. Mr. Speaker: Does the honourable member have leave? [Agreed] Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, I join with others in recognizing the impact of the weekend storm. I want to thank the minister for her update. Certainly there has been ongoing and continuing concern over people–for people in communities like St-Lazare and Brandon and a number of others around Manitoba. It is going to extend the period that we are going to have to be watchful. And we thank–I thank, in particular, those who are working so hard and recognize all the emergency preparedness workers in

May 2, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1291 this particular week, which is to honour and recognize them. I think it's also pretty important, as we're now into May, that we look at the situation for farmers and make sure that there is a plan and approach that will be optimum for supporting farmers who are now starting to try and think about at least getting their crops in the ground, and this may be delayed in part because of the long high water in certain areas. So thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank the minister. Introduction of Guests Mr.

Speaker: Prior to oral questions, I'd like to draw the attention of honourable members to the public gallery where we have with us today from Mensheds, Manitoba, we have Loris Barsanti, Doug Bradie, David Friesen, Bill Heron, Doug Mackie, Herb McMullin, Ed Walker and Alan Wolfe. These are the–who are the guests of the honourable member for Kirkfield Park (Ms. Blady). And also in the public gallery we have with us from Hazelridge School, we have 21 grade 4 and 5 students under the direction of Ms. Amanda Crampton. This school is lo cated in the constituency of the honourable member for Springfield (Mr. Schuler).

And also in the public gallery we have with us from Gillis School, we have 14 grade 4 students under the direction of Ms. Kim Semonick. This school is located in th e constituen cy of the honourable member for Springfield (Mr. Schuler). On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you all here today. ORAL QUESTIONS Flooding and Ice Jams Mitigation and Dike Maintenance Strategies Mr. Hugh McFadyen (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr.

Speaker, with the storm that hit the western part of Manitoba over the weekend, in particular around the communities of Dauphin and Roblin, as has been indicated already by the minister, it has added a significant amount of water to the western part of the province. The indication is that while it may not result in higher levels along the major tributaries, it may contribute to prolonged high water levels which can take its toll both on dikes in the area and shorelines.

And I wonder if the Prem ier can just provide an indication as to what steps are being taken by the government to ensure that those dikes are being maintained and that steps are being taken to protect individuals who may be impacted by significant shoreline erosion. Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr. Speaker, the member might know that we've spent in the order of $20 million on putting additional diking in place and reinforcing existing diking in the Assiniboine Valley. This has already paid enormous benefits. There are many, many producers out there and farmers who have been protected.

The first major threat wa s when the ice broke up this spring. It backed up the water behind it to within inches of the top of the new dikes that we put in place and the higher dikes that we put in place, and when that threat passe d, our officials were out there literally walking down the river step-by-step, as the ice moved down the river, to ensure that there was no breaching in the dikes. And then after that ice threat passed, they went back and reinforced the dikes. There were some sand seams that needed reinforcement.

There was some additional compacting that needed to be done, and, of course, they've got 24/7 patrols that are out there on a regular basis looking at them. On shoreline erosion, there is a new technology being put in place at Victoria Beach in the water–into the waterway that will provide some additional protection, and there are many very specific projects on diking on the west side, in the Gimli area. Mr.

McFadyen: I want to thank the Premier for his response and acknowledge that officials from different levels of government and volunteers in many communities are doing a superb job, have done a superb job to date. We know that the risk, with the passage of time, is that with high waters and high winds, that there is erosion, obviously the potential for these many terrific wo rkers to become fatigued and volunteers to become burned out.

I wonder if the Premier can just provide assurances that in the areas where the dikes may face prolonged high water levels and winds, that resources are going to be available to ensure that there aren't any problems or issues that arise as we get further toward summer. Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, I think the member knows that we have developed a very strong emergency response syst em in Manitoba. Each municipality puts in place what they call an emergency operations committee. These are

1292 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 2, 2011 composed of officials from the municipality as well as volunteers. They are tr ained to respond to the conditions in their area. They are supported by the Manitoba Emergency Measures office which operates a major co-ordination centre on the top floor of the Woodsworth Building. Recently, we've expanded that centre to have up to 60 people working there from all levels of government and the non-profit sector as well as the military.

They work in that centre on a regular basis every single day, co-ordinating information, providing resources where it's needed, moving resources very rapidly to an area that requires a more intense response. If, for example, a dike looks at risk of breaching, they can move resources there very carefully. In addition, we have located around Manitoba mobile units that have Aqua Dams and Tiger Dams that are available, as well as Hesco barriers, and those mobile units can move very quickly if they see the need to provide additional protection in the community.

And, of course, we have, for the second time only, the STARS helicopter program to do emergency evacuations as required. * (14:00) Mr. McFadyen: I want to, again, thank the Premier for the response and for the action taken to date. Mr.

Speaker, just with the indication that second crests are looking likely in communities like Melita, Souris and others along the Souris River as well as communities along the Pembina River, along the Assiniboine River and, obviously, the potential for prolonged erosion and impact along Lake Winnipeg as well as Lake Manitoba, can the Premier just assure the House that step s are being taken–and I'll use one particular example in Souris of one family that was absolutely exhausted and feeling very emotional even as of a week ago–with the potential for a second crest coming through that community, that steps are being taken just to ensure that everybody involved is in a position to be able to manage a second high-water event, particularly given some of the weakening that will have occurred as a result of the first crest.

Mr. Selinger: Just over a week ago, I visited both Melita and Souris and talked with the local officials there and their emergency operations committee. In the case of Souris, they had done some additional sandbagging around some of the homes that were the most exposed to the waterway there. They had, in addition, put very extensive diking around to protect their water protection and sewage treatment plants there. The mayor of the town was right on top of the situation. We were working closely with him to provide him additional resources as required.

Similarly in Melita, they had a primary dike that we had built there in 2009 after the events of that year, but because it was put up very rapidly, it needed some reinforcement as well, including a secondary dike just in behind it in case there was any breach of the primary dike, and since my visit I know they put additional effort in place to strengthen those dikes.

But there is no question, with the high water and with the extent of the water staying high for a longer duration of time, this will put additional pressure on these diking systems, which is why we're stepping up our monitoring procedures with local emergency operations committees and are poised to move very quickly if any additional stresses are indicated that require an immediate response. Shoal Lakes Flooding Effect on Livestock Producers Mr. Ralph Eichler (Lakeside): Mr. Speaker, we have repeatedly warned this government about the severity of the Shoal lakes flooding in the Interlake.

This past weekend, water levels rose very quickly. As a result, now producers cannot access feed or pens where their livestock are located. One such operation, the Vestfold Ranch, with 500 head of bison, they'll be out of feed by Wednesday. Access roads are closed. This government had every opportunity to be proactive on this file but did nothing. This is the 11th hour. These animals are going to be ou t of feed because it's NDP government mismanagement. Mr. Speaker, can the minister outline what action this government is will ing to take to face this serious situation facing our livestock producers? Hon.

Stan Struthers (Min ister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives): Well, I'm really very pleased that my friends opposite don't go over the top on these kind of issues, because these are very important issues for producers that he references, his constituents.

May 2, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1293 He's not correct in saying that nothing's been done. Department officials have been working with the very bison ranch that he references in his question plus some others in the area who have been up against the wall, Mr. Speaker, when it comes to dealing with this high-water event.

People in the department have been in touch with these folks–from other departments have worked with these various people that the member puts on the record here today, and we're going to continue to do that because we know we have to get producers to their animals or their animals somewhere where they can be fed. Mr. Eichler: Mr. Speaker, the Vestfold Ranch is not the only operation having problems in the Shoal Lake area. Producers like Patrick Grosse, Darwin Fleury, Jim Dyck, Hugh Crockatt, Jim Crockatt, Stewart Tataryn and a whole host of others need action now.

We, along with other affected producers, are repeatedly asked about this issue and raised it with the government, but they haven't moved on it. Just last Thursday, I asked the Premier when his government would act, with his comments that were that they were looking at it. It's too late. We have producers not knowing where to turn. This NDP government has failed and let them down. Mr. Speaker, what is it going to take for this government to take immediate action for those livestock producers and farms surrounding the Shoal lakes area? Mr. Struthers: Well, again, Mr.

Speaker, it's not too late and we have to continue to work with farmers as we've been doing. What we don't need are people going over the top on an issue that we've been working together with producers on, we've been working with municipalities on, as well, Mr. Speaker. As we speak, there are people from the Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives meeting with these farmers, yet again, this morning and this afternoon. They're looking at ways in which we can help the producer and help the producer to take care of the livestock, Mr. Speaker. That's our goal.

That's what we've been working with, and we do that together with farmers in the area and with the municipalities. Mr. Eichler: Mr. Speaker, nine rural municipalities have agreed to a plan of action with the Wagon Creek Drain, just out of Oak Point, to drain off water from the Shoal lakes. Five hundred head of bison could be unable to access feed by this Wednesday. Numerous cattle producers are struggling to tend their stock. Access roads are closed. Families cannot get essential services, never mind emergency services.

A 12-year-old b oy is now separated from his family because the school bus can't even get to their farm. Mr. Speaker, I ask: What else has to happen before this government will treat this issue with the seriousness it deserves? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): The member raised these questions in Estimates last week, and I indicated to him that we'd moved rapidly on a recommendation from the local reeves to open up and further expand the hatchery drain which provides some immediate relief.

MAFRI, the agricultural people, are part of the emergency operations committee which reports every day to all the folk s about what's going on. They are monitoring the situation, and if they see the need for moving any livestock and–or providing them additional support, they're ready to do that on a moment's notice. This is part of the ongoing emergency planning process. We look to protect people, property and, of course, livestock as well, and this is–and the member has indicated the request fo r future resources to do some long-term changes there.

I indicated to him that those will, obviously, be seriously considered and will look at the best technical solution to provide relief in that area. But I can assure him that MAFRI is very much a part of the daily process of monitoring conditions in Manitoba. Shellmouth Dam Spillway Levels Mr. Larry Maguire (Arthur-Virden): Mr. Speaker, this weekend's h eavy snow and rain have heightened the concerns for residents in western Manitoba and the Parkland region who are dealing with spring flooding. On Friday, I observed th e water flowing over the Shellmouth spillway.

Yesterday's flood bulletin indicated four feet of overflow, around 10,000 cubic feet per second, Mr. Speaker, which is twice the controlled flow only 10 days ago with higher levels coming. Mr. Speaker, with these higher levels and a similar heightened flow from the Qu'Appelle River,

1294 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 2, 2011 can the minister advise citizens in St-Lazare and that area what they can expect for a second crest and what plans will be needed to shore up their protective systems. Hon. Christine Melnic k (Minister of Water Stewardship): Yes, Mr. Speaker, we're monitoring very closely waters that are coming overtop of the spillway. In the Shellmouth Dam we're also monitoring very carefully what is coming out through the conduit flows. We're making sure that we're balancing both of those off so that the folks downstream will experience the least disruption as possible.

We're monitoring the situation on a 24/7 basis. We're monitoring 24/7 for river levels. We're monitoring what is happening coming into the Shellmouth Dam and we're adjusting as appropriate, Mr. Speaker. We're also working with the local EMOs and particularly in areas that will be acutely– Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Maguire: Well, Mr. Speaker, I know that it's going over. I just stated that it's going over at 10,000 cubic feet per second.

The conduit flows are open, but once it goes over the spillway it's uncontrollable, and so I ask the minister what conditions she's going to have; what can she tell the people in that area? And my question was in regards to the second crest: When can they exp ect it and has she had a level provided to her as to what that level could be, because with the combined flows of the Qu'Appelle and the Assiniboine in St-L azare, there's an obvious concern of the people in that region. * (14:10) Ms. Melnick: Mr. Speaker, the flows coming over the spillway of the Shellmouth Dam are not out of control.

We are monitoring that flow with what we're releasing from the conduit. [interjection] Members opposite think this is a funny situation; we don't. We are watching the flows as they come into the Shellmouth Dam. We are dealing with areas that will be acutely affected, such as St-Lazare, all the areas along Assiniboine River, which is why we built 70 kilometres of diking this spring, Mr. Speaker, which is why we've made sandbagging machines–which members opposite made fun of–available to all the communities in western Manitoba, which is why we made sure that Hesco dams were available, super sandbags were available.

There is continual communication between local EMOs and the Province, Mr Speaker. We're working with the community. Sioux Valley Dakota Nation Dike Maintenance and Road Closures Mr. Larry Maguire (Arthur-Virden): Well, Mr. Speaker, I wasn't looking for a–I was looking for a serious answer, not a–not some sarcasm. Mr.

Speaker, once the con duit is flowing at its maximum capacity, which it is, then when it goes over the spillway, it's not in control, and so the citizens at St-Lazare, those in the Miniota area, farmers in the Assiniboine River Valley are not the only ones concerned about the impact of this weekend's storm. There've already been some evacuations in the Sioux Valley Dakota Nation, and Highway 21 is closed due to the flood conditions in that area. So, Mr.

Speaker, can the minister indicate how the work on the dikes at the Sioux Valley Nation–Dakota Nation is proceeding and how long she expects No. 21 Highway to remain closed. Hon. Christine Melnic k (Minister of Water Stewardship): Mr. Speaker, we've been in contact with Sioux Valley. We know that their diking system was very well prepared, that their local EMO did a fine job to protect that community. We know there have been, I believe, five precautionary evacuations. We're monitoring the situation on a 24/7 basis.

We're looking again–I think it's the member opposite who doesn't understand that when water is coming over the spillway, it does not mean that it is not being controlled, that there is the ability to what is called peak shave to make sure that what is coming over the spillway and what is coming out of the conduit does not exceed 10,000 cfs. We're watching that. We're monitoring. I think members opposite have to understand two and a half times the normal inflow will be coming into Shellmouth Dam this year.

We are balancing for the folks upstream in the Shellmouth area as well as the folks downstream through Portage all the way along the Assiniboine and right up into Lake Winnipeg. Ambulance Services Availability and Wait Times Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Mr. Speaker, the president of the paramedics' union said that on Friday there were no ambulances available

May 2, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1295 for three critically ill patients, including one that was shot. I'm sure the minister has had a briefing on this now, and I would like to ask her if she could tell us why there were no ambulances available for these three critically ill patients as stated by the president of the paramedics' union. Hon. Theresa Oswald (Minister of Health): Certainly, I believe the member well knows that there are–there is a fleet of ambulances and paramedics working on those fleets.

There is a central dispatch that does triage and we work very hard to ensure that we have ample pre-hospital care for individuals that are needing it. We also know that we're making investments in our emergency rooms and in our primary care to deal with issues of crowding and overcrowding, and we're working very hard to continue to build our EMS system, Mr. Speaker, and we rely on our medical professionals to do triage, to send out EMS personnel and to ensure that Manitobans are getting the care that they need when they need it. Mrs.

Driedger: I had assumed that the minister would be more fully briefed on that issue and that her answer would be more than just rhetoric. Mr. Speaker, can the Minister of Health tell us if the shooting victim had to be taken to the hospital by his friends because an ambulance was not available? Ms. Oswald: Well, Mr. Speaker, the member knows full well that any particular case that is raised by the member and any alleged facts that are brought forward are done in a way when she knows that I cannot comment on personal health information of individuals. It's a mug's game that she plays; no one's entertained by it.

I can certainly tell the members of this House that our paramedic personnel are the finest in the nation. We know that triage is done through central dispatch and, indeed, through the Medical Transportation Co -ordination Centre for rural Manitoba. We know that we have built and rebuilt our system, restoring the entire fleet of ambulances, building our personnel to be more credentialed than they ev er have been before in Manitoba. Members opposite have voted against every one of those investments; seems like crocodile tears to me, Mr. Speaker. Mrs. Driedger: Mr. Speaker, this is a very, very serious situation.

The paramedics have indicated time and again to this government that there is a lack of ambulances in the city. Now we have heard, on Friday night three critically ill people did not have an ambulance come to them. I want to ask the minister: Did those three critically ill people ever get an ambulance, and how long did it take those three people to get an ambulance, and was the care of these people compromised because of the slowness at which the ambulances came? This is a very serious issue, Mr. Speaker, and I think they–Manitobans would like an answer from this minister. Ms.

Oswald: Emergency medical services is a very serious issue, which is why we've committed from day one to making investments in a system that was absolutely crumbling when it came into our hands. We know that for many years, during the time that the members opposite had their hands on the wheel, the budget for paramedic education was pitiful, at less than half a million dollars. We know that we invested in the new primary care education program to bring more very well-trained paramedics to our front lines. We know that our medical personnel do triage and send out ambulances as necessary.

We know that this happens every day in Manitoba, and, in any individual case, where the shoot time was not as was appropriate, we do appropriate investigations and make sure that our fleet is in full complement, unlike the dark days of the '90s when they were cutting and slashing everywhere. Diabetes Increase Prevention Strategy Mrs. Leanne Rowat (Minnedosa): Diabetes is a growing epidemic in Man itoba. There are nearly 94,000 diagnosed cases of diabetes in our province. This is a devastating number and one that is projected to get much worse.

According to a recent warning by the Canadian Diabetes Association, the number of cases is expected to increase by 48 per cent by the end of this decade. In fact, Manitoba has the highest rate of diabetes on the prairies. Mr. Speaker, today I ask the Minister of Healthy Living: When will he realize that Manitobans want proactive programs that actively provide better health care, not empty PR or press release promises?

1296 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 2, 2011 Hon. Jim Rondeau (Minister of Healthy Living, Youth and Seniors): I'm pleased to bring all the members' attention to the Chronic Disease Prevention Initiative. This is a five-year trial project that we worked with with the federal government. I'm pleased to see that we enhanced it by almost a million dollars this year when the federal government pulled out their funding. I'm pleased it's in all regions. It's talking about food; it's talking about activity; it's talking about moving proactively in health. And, Mr.

Speaker, we introduced it and you didn't vote for it. And so I think that we have to talk about actions, and I think we have to talk about concrete plans and programs that we put in place and that we're moving forward. Thank you. Mrs. Rowat: But the fact is is the diabetes costs in our province are $498 million per year. Without prompt action and intervention, this cost is expected to rise to $639 million annually. Unfortunately, despite more than a decade in power, this tired NDP government has done little to stem the tide of this devastating disease. Mr.

Speaker, it appears this NDP government is more interested in photo ops than action. Can the Minister of Healthy Living explain to the House why he continues to fail to address the diabetic epidemic in Manitoba? Mr.

Rondeau: I'd like to bring all members' attention to some of the programs that we implemented in the last few years: first, 750 community gardens across northern Manitoba; second, an in motion program that is first in the country as far as getting a 10 per cent increase in activity in this province in the last five years; the Chronic Disease Prevention Initiative, which touches all people as far as smoking, as far as diet, as far as activity, through the health-care system and through multiple–83 community partners; and, finally, Mr. Speaker, we want to work proactively across jurisdictions.

So we not only work just in the city of Winnipeg or rural Manitoba, we walk–we work in First Nations to bring health, message and action to the forefront, and that didn't happen in the '90s. * (14:20) Mrs. Rowat: This is a fact, Mr. Speaker, that there is no comprehensive provincial strategy prevent–for preventing or managing diabetes. The numbers are going up. The cost to Manitoba is going up. Until these issues are addressed, more Manitobans will be diagnosed and the economic burden of the disease will continue to grow. Mr.

Speaker, can the Minister responsible for Healthy Living initiatives please indicate when Manitobans can see a detailed, comprehensive prevention and support strategy for this growing epidemic in Manitoba. Mr. Rondeau: I refer the member to the Healthy Living website where we talk about activity; we talk about diet; we talk about gardens; we're talking about the food–the Farm to School fundraiser; we're talking about the changing behaviours in schools with a proactive policy on food nutrition. And, Mr.

Speaker, in spite of the member's rhetoric, they are on the record about eliminating the Department of Healthy Living, eliminating the whole proactive prevention agenda. We believe in prevention. We believe in moving forward on proactive health message. Let their actions speak 'loudler' than their words, because we do actually do it and they just talk about it. PTH 5 Bridge Project Status Mr. Stuart Briese (Ste. Rose): Mr. Speaker, in August 2010, a set of traffic lights were erected at the bridge over the Turtle River on Provincial Trunk Highway No. 5, and traffic has been reduced to one lane over that bridge.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the Mi nister of Infrastructure and Transportation (Mr. Ashton): What are the government's plans for this bridge? Hon. Ron Lemieux (Acting Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation): I thank the member for the question. We're very, very proud of our record on–with regard to infrastructure in the province of Manitoba and throughout the province, whether it's in the north or the west or the east or the southern part of the province. Mr.

Speaker, we're very pleased with all the action we've taken, not only on bridge renovations, but a lot of asphalt, a lot of highways have been addressed with regard to our 10-year plan. And I'll just tell the member to stay tuned. There'd be–the second part of our 10-year plan is going to be coming forward very shortly.

May 2, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1297 Mr. Briese: Mr. Speaker, that closure was nine months ago. Repairs are not even started. Provincial Trunk Highway No. 5 is a major north-south highway. Traffic is slowed by the lights and the fact that only one vehicle can cross at a time. I understand the Letellier bridge has been under the same restriction for a number of years. Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister: Is this part of his double-due-diligence program on the provincial highway bridges, or are one-lane bridges the NDP's new standard for provincial trunk highways? Mr. Lemieux: You know, Mr.

Speaker, Budget 2011 named and certainly talked about a lot of infrastructure projects we're going to be talking about in the future, and the tendering of a lot of projects are going to be coming forward. You know, the members opposite when they were government, looking back, Mr. Speaker–and we don't want to look ba ck in the rear-view mirror too far, but you don't have to look that far.

When they were government and the Leader of the Opposition was the great architect at the time, they increased the gas tax, they cut the budget on transportation, and a lot of the infrastructure crumbled and started falling apart. We're working with municipalities and leaders around the province to address the situation, Mr. Speaker, and thereby putting billions of dollars in infrastructure in the province of Manitoba. And the members opposite know very well that MIT staff have been working diligently to do inspection on bridges. We've increased inspections and also infrastructure to improve those bridges, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Briese: I would remind the minister that we had two-lane bridges back in those days. The minister stated recently that the NDP government were doing double due diligence with highway bridges. I'm not familiar with that standard, but if it is the standard being used on PTH 5, it certainly is a low one. The travelling public is fa ced with a stop light in the middle of nowhere. Farmers are being forced to make long detours with their machinery at seeding time. Mr. Speaker, will the minister at least tell the public what the timelines are on this bridge? Mr. Lemieux: Mr.

Speaker, our government has always taken safety very, very seriously, whether it be on our highways or whether it's in other aspects of the province, and members opposite know that the engineers in the Department of MIT take their job very, very seriously, an d when they recognize something needs to be addressed, they do it. You know, the members opposite are continually complaining about bridges in their area and how they need to be addressed. Well, Mr. Speaker, it's happening; it's happening as a result of our budget, and yet Budget 2011, what did we see them do?

Once again they strut into all the coffee shops in southern Manitoba and throughout Manitoba talking about how–what they would do. Well, Mr. Speaker, that half-a-billion-dollar cut they were going to do would have wiped out the department and all the challenges that they have and are facing with regard to infrastructure, so shame on the member opposite for voting against the budget. And members opposite in rural Manitoba, when they go strutting around the province, make sure they tell people they were going to cut a half a billion dollars out of the Infrastructure budget.

International Students Health-Care Benefits Availability Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, I met with representatives of the Canadian Federation of Students last week, and they're very concerned that the NDP government refuses to extend health benefits to international students. International students wishing to see a doctor must endure the stresses of an American-style, insure-yourself or pay-for-it-yourself health-care system under this NDP government.

After graduation, we'd like these students to make a home in Manitoba, and, as such, they should be afforded access to the universal health care like any other Manitobans. Mr. Speaker, if international students get sick, why won't the NDP minister of post-secondary education provide the same health-care coverage afforded to the rest of Manitoba? Hon. Theresa Oswald (Minister of Health): Mr.

Speaker, we have met with the students, as well, at the local level, who have made a very important case about the funding of health care for international students, and, in partnership with my colleagues, we're very pleased that in the coming days that we will be doing this funding.

1298 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 2, 2011 Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, I'm pleased that the Minister of Health and the Minister of Education are finally going to see the light. I think that it is important that we make sure that international students are well looked af ter, and I think that we want to make sure that this is going to happen. Can the ministers provide a date when this is going to happen, or is this some, you know, potential time sometime into the future? Ms. Oswald: I can confirm it will be in the future.

We are working across several departments to ensure that this is done as seamlessly as possible, Mr. Speaker, and it will be in the coming days. Mr. Gerrard: Well, Mr. Speaker, we've had a lot of announcements from this NDP government about things which are going to happen in the future, and many of those which were announced nine years ago, eight years ago, seven years ago have still not happened. So there is not the credibility until there is actual–an announcement. The government has stalled on this file for a long time.

Why don't the ministers give us a date when it's actually going to happen instead of saying, oh, maybe 10 or 20 years from now it might happen. Ms. Oswald: I can say to the member, as I would to all members of this House, that we work every single day to build our capacity in the health-care system, net increase of 405 doctors, net increase of over 2,500 nurses. We have renovated, rebuilt or built from the ground new over 100 health facilities. We've added new programs for children, for mothers, for fathers, for families.

And I can say to the member opposite that our decision wasn't like his to cut the health transfer payments when he had his hands on the wheel in the federal Cabinet. We're going to invest every single day, including in international students, Mr. Speaker. * (14:30) University College of the North Thompson Campus Expansion Mr. Gerard Jennissen (Flin Flon): Mr.

Speaker, since our government created the University College of the North in 2004, this institution has been providing quality education in campus communities and regional centres across Manitoba, ensuring that residents of the north can access training without leaving home. Can the Minister of Advanced Education advise the House of the latest exciting developments at the Thompson UCN campus? Hon. Erin Selby (Minister of Advanced Education and Literacy): I thank the member for the question.

Yes, this government is committed to bringing education to the entire provi nce, and that is why our government, along with community leaders, were in Thompson on Friday for a sod-turning for an $82-million expansion of the University College of the North. Mr. Speaker, this project will include a teaching facility, 24 student/family housing units, and this campus will also increase capacity from 342 students to 510 students.

This, of course, will ensure that UCN can expand and provide education, a quality education, to people of the north, and that will ensure and empower the people of the north and their communities. This is just another example. One more example, of course, Mr. Speaker, would be the mining academy that is now under construction in Flin Flon, because this government is committed to all members of this province. Road 39 North Bridge Project Status Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Mr. Speaker, the member for Ste. Rose (Mr. Briese) has a bridge that only has one lane in the RM of Hanover on road No. 39 north.

There is a bridge that's been burnt out for several years, and this government hasn't gotten it repaired. That means that farmers and residents in the area have to go several miles around to access their land or their residences. This bridge has been burnt out for several years already. The officials in the RM of Hanover are quite frustrated, as are many of the residents in the area. They have a lot of patience but they've basically run out of their patience already, Mr. Speaker. I want to ask the minister responsible when this burnt-out bridge is actually going to get rebuilt. Hon.

Ron Lemieux (Acting Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation): Again, I just want to make sure that the record is clear that our government is very proud of our record since we've come into government, quite frankly, with the investments we've made, Mr. Speaker, and thanks to the member from Transcona and the MLA for Selkirk, the Vision 2020 committee that traveled throughout Manitoba consulting with the public and

May 2, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1299 municipalities as to the need on infrastructure and the kind of changes that needed to be made. We took their advice and we took the advice of many Manitobans at what needed to be addressed. We looked at highways, Mr. Speaker. We took a look at bridges. We took a look at infrastructure on our system, and we've come a long way. We're not perfect, Mr. Speaker, and there's a lot more to do, but it's certainly not helpful when members opposite vote against budgets that are truly proactive, addressing the infrastructure needs of our province. Mr. Goertzen: Mr.

Speaker, you know, I voted against the budget because the bridge has been burnt out for several years now, and it hasn't been fixed. You know, we'd almost be happy just with the one lane if we could even get one lane over the bridge. That bridge has been burnt out for several years. Residents are getting frustrated. Farmers can't access their land in the way that they should. Residents can't get to their homes in the way that they should. The government's known about it. The RM of Hanover has been petitioning this government for several years now.

The bridge has been burnt out for several years and they just can't seem to get it fixed. Why should we wait and wait and wait for this bridge to be rebuilt? Is it simply because it's in an area where the government doesn't think it can get enough votes, Mr. Speaker? Mr. Lemieux: We're working very hard to make sure Manitoba's bridges are safe, and that's a priority for the department, and that–we've increased our investments in bridge inspections and renewals since we've been government, Mr. Speaker. Our yearly spending commitment on bridges is six times what it was when members opposite were in government.

It's made a huge difference. As I said before, we're certainly not perfect, Mr. Speaker, but we're heading down the right track as opposed to what members opposite–we're taking a look at what they wanted to do, and when we take a look at what their examples are, when they take a look at–when we look at their budget cuts, they wanted to cut a half a billion dollars from the budget. How is that going to help bridges in Manitoba, Mr. Speaker, and infrastructure in Manitoba? It's not, and that's the fact of it.

And when we asked them to point out exactly where those cuts would be made, they hummed and hawed and they didn't know exactly where. They wanted to showboat, saying they're going to be balancing budgets and they had no way to do it, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Goertzen: Let me point out exactly where the burnt-out bridge is. It's on road No. 39 north. It's not that far from where the minister lives or where he represents his constituents, and the bridge has been burnt out for several years. RM officials have been going to the government and saying this is important; the bridge can't be accessed; there's a road closed sign.

For several years it's been burnt out and the government has said, well, maybe next year, maybe next year, maybe next year; it's just not a priority. Maybe it's not a priority because they don't think that the people there are voting the right way. Is that why they haven't got this bridge built? Mr. Lemieux: Mr. Speaker, the MLA for Steinbach, Mr. partisan politics–and always tries to raise something in this Legislature not to be helpful–not to be helpful, not to give construction–constructive suggestions but always trying to raise issues that are absolutely bogus.

Our track record shows that we've invested in northern Manitoba and each corner of this province, Mr. Speaker, and our track record speaks for itself, not like the members opposite. They make an announcement the last election; they were going to cut all the spending and funding out of northern Manitoba to put in southern Manitoba. Shame, Mr. Speaker. Standing in Virden with the critic for highways at the time, the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. McFadyen) announces, oh, we'll fix the highways in the south; we'll just take the money out of the north and put it in the south. Shame, Mr. Speaker.

We stand up for all Manitobans and we'll continue to do that. Mr. Speaker: Order. I want to remind members when addressing other members, it's by their constituencies, ministers by the portfolios, and to keep it from being personalized, all questions and answers should come through the Speaker. RM of Roland Bridge Replacement Timeline Mr. Blaine Pedersen (Carman): And while we're on the subject of bridges, one-lane bridges, burnt-out

1300 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 2, 2011 bridges, in the RM of Roland, just southeast of Roland, we have a bridge that was destroyed by a grass fire a year ago, May 2010, and it is a serious subject matter because local traffic, including school buses and emergency vehicles, are forced now to take a six-mile detour. The RM has asked the department to at least be able to put in a temporary crossing at their expense–not even at the department's expense–and they were turned down flatly.

What plan does the department have to replace this bridge for access for school buses and emergency vehicles and local traffic? Hon. Ron Lemieux (Acting Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation): Mr. Speaker, the department has increased its inspections by adding about $2 million more to the budget, and members opposite actually cut inspections on bridges. And, you know, Manitobans don't realize this, but I just want to clarify the record that members opposite cut inspections on bridges.

We're putting more money into bridge inspections, so members opposite should talk to some of their colleagues that were on the Cabinet benches of those days and the kind of cuts they made, not only to inspections on bridges but also to drainage and so on. So that's their record. Our record is building Manitoba and we're building bridges, Mr. Speaker, with many, many different segments in Manitoba, in different communities in Manitoba. Our government's about building bridges, building communities and moving forward. Members opposite want to go backwards. Mr. Speaker: Time for oral questions has expired.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Mensheds Manitoba Ms. Sharon Blady (Kirkfield Park): Mr. Speaker, men often grow up in cultures that do not encourage talking about feelings and emotions. This means that even when men need help they may not feel comfortable asking for it. Mensheds Manitoba is a new organization in Winnipeg which is designed to give men a space to work on projects together, learn new skills and, most of all, to share their life experiences in an atmosphere of friendship. The Mensheds movement began in Australia. It is meant to be an updated version of the shed in the backyard.

Men get together to work on anything from crafts to woodworking to repairing bicycles. Doug Mackie founded Mensheds Manitoba about a year and a half ago. Doug recognized that many men in his community had time on their hands. Men have a greater tendency to suffer from isolation, loneliness and depression than women, especially after they retire. However, being productive and contributing to your community are key steps to good health. Mensheds Manitoba is run out of the Woodhaven Community Club and meets Tuesdays and Wednesdays for coffee and camaraderie.

Their current major project is converting a seldom-used garage behind the community club into a woodworking shop. Mensheds will soon be starting a cooking club on Wednesday mornings. It sold wren houses and obelisks at the Friends of the Conservatory gardening sale and Mensheds also hopes to have a Woodhaven-Sturgeon Creek fishing derby in June. Mensheds is a bottom-up pure-run organization which compliments its grassroots values of building relationships.

In a time when we are becoming more and more aware of the importance of mental health, Mensheds is a straightforward way of connecting with others and learning creative skills. Thank you to Doug Mackie, to the Mensheds president, Dave Friesen, and to all the Mensheds members who are here in the gallery today. I hope your organization continues to grow and take root in our community. Thank you. * (14:40) Holocaust Memorial Day Mrs. Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): Today, I stand with people all over the world to observe Yom Hashoah in order to perpetuate the memory of the six million Jewish victims of the Holocaust.

Mr. Speaker, I also had the privilege to visit Israel last fall with a delegation put together by the Canada-Israel Committee, and I also visited Yad Vashem, and believe me, Mr. Speaker, it was a true eye-opener to the horrific massacre that took place, killing more than six million men, women and children of Jewish descent. Mr. Speaker, through public recitation of their names in the Unto Every Person There is a Name that we participated in this morning, we personalized the individual tragedy of those who died and those who survived.

And I want to thank the Jewish Federation and B'nai Brith Canada for organizing the events at the

May 2, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1301 Manitoba Legislature today. I want to thank all those who participated in today's events at the Manitoba Legislature. In particular, I want to thank all of the Holocaust survivors who came out to read the names of their families who peri shed during this horrific event, especially Barbara Goszer, Carla Divinsky and Arnold Frieman. They showed–they shared their stories and reminded us all of how important it is that we never forget those who lost their lives for no other reason than because they were Jewish. Mr.

Speaker, for the past 11 years, I have read some of the names of those who lost their lives in concentration camps.

In ho nour of those who lost their lives, I want to read a poem today so we, too, never forget: Unto every person ther e is a name bestowed upon him by God and given him by his father and mother. / Unto every person there is a name accorded him by his stature and the manner of his smile and given him by his style of dress. / Unto every person there is a name conferred on his by the mountains and given him by his neighbours. / Unto every person there is a name assigned him by his sins and given him by his yearnings. / Unto every person there is a name given him by his enemies and given him by his love. / Unto every person there is a name derived from the festivals and given him by his labour. / Unto every person there is a name presented him by the seasons and given him by his blindness. / Unto every person there is a name.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Amber Trails New School Facility Mr. Mohinder Saran (The Maples): Mr. Speaker, people from all over the world are choosing to make Manitoba their home, often to give their children the best education possible. Schools bring children from diverse families together and give them the tools to grow and succeed. This is why I am proud to mark the announcement of a new school which will serve families in the Maples. On April 4, 2011, our Premier (Mr.

Selinger) announced a $94-million investment in public schools, which will fund an early learning up to grade 8 elementary school in Amber Trails for the Seven Oaks School Division. We aim to open this new school by September 2013, and it will also have a daycare attached. Adding child care into elementary schools increases the number of spaces and also encourages learning and development right from the children's earliest years. Neighbourhoods like the Maples in northwest Winnipeg, we have been growing, and this new school will help make sure we are giving our children excellent education.

Manitoba is also investing in schools to improve air quality, the roofing and gyms. We are also improving access for people with disabilities, to make our school a meeting place for all families, no matter their physical differences. New schools embody our commitment to children and youth. Our government believes that good quality education is essential for healthy, active and successful children. I am looking forward to watching the new school in Amber Trails develop and I know there will be many proud families joining me to see our children off on its opening day. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Winnipeg Thrashers Mrs.

Bonnie Mitchelson (River East): I rise today as a proud Winnipegger to congratulate the Winnipeg Thrashers on their amazing Telus Cup win. Mr. Speaker, on Sunday, April 24th, 2011, the Winnipeg Thrashers played a remarkable game to win the National AAA Midget Championship. The Thrashers took the national crown with a 3 to 1 victory over the London Junior Knights at the Mile One Centre in St. John's, Newfoundland. This was the 33rd Canadian National Midget Hockey Championship. Thrasher's goaltender, Teagan Sacher, gave an amazing performance making 31 saves during the game.

Although the London Junior Knights outshot the Thrashers 32-18, the Thrasher's goalie held on letting only one shot through. Thrasher's Justin De rlago and Corey Petrash each scored a goal during the second period, and Connor Lockhart scored the Thrasher's third goal during the third period. For his outstanding performance, Connor was named the player of the game. I would like to commend Coach Dan Eliasson, the Thrasher's head coach, and all the coaching staff on a stellar season and a well-deserved national title.

The Thrashers are now the first Winnipeg team to win the National AAA Midget Championship and Telus Cup and only the second Manitoban team to win the title.

1302 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 2, 2011 Again, I would like to extend my congratulations to the Winnipeg Thrashers. You have made this city and this province very proud. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask leave of the House to include in Hansard the names of the players and coaches of the Winnipeg Thrashers 2011 Telus Cup Champions. Thank you. Mr.

Speaker: Is there agreement for the names of the coaches and player s to be added into Hansard? [Agreed] Winnipeg Thrashers 2010-2011 Player Roster: Alex Henry, Ian Humphreys, Tanner Quinn, Cody Danylchuk, Ryan Leaf, Riley Kuryk, Tyler Kauk, Adam Henry, Regan Stire, Rory Court, Morgan Winchar, Corey Petrash, Justin Derlago, Brendyn Illchuk, Lyrik Friesen, Dylan Kuczek, Tyrenn Bauer, Sean Collins, Teagan Sacher, Connor Lockhart. Coaching Staff: Dan Eliasson, Head Coach; Royce Manary, Assistant Coach; Anthony Knapp, Assistant Coach; Dan Ferguson, Goaltender Coach; Marty Gagné, Manager; Amanda Dennison, Trainer.

Brandon Recreational Facilities Funding Mr. Drew Caldwell (Brandon East): Mr. Speaker, every community knows the value and importance of having safe well-maintained recreational facilities where families can go and spend time together having fun. This is why the recent funding announcements by the provincial government to invest in some of Brandon's key recreational facilities are so vital to the families in Brandon and the Westman region. The most significant funding announcement, in partnership with the City of Brandon, was a $500,000 provincial investment to refurbish the Canada Games Sportsplex Pool.

This money represents half of the estimated cost required to make much needed mechanical, safety and technical improvements to the facility. This investment will help ensure that the sportsplex can continue to offer a range of programs such as swim lessons, aquafit programs and competitive swim training for the Brandon Bluefins Swim Club. There was also the recent announcement of an $18,000 grant from the Community Places program to help enhance the lighting at the Kristopher Campbell Memorial Skate Plaza. The lighting will consist of high-efficiency LED lighting along the perimeter and inside the skate bowl.

This will help kids use the skate park well into the evening hour. It will also provide an extra measure of safety, as everyone will now be able to better see the activities at the skate park once it gets dark outside. This brings our total overall investment in the Skate Plaza to $350,000. We have also partnered with the federal government through the Canada-Manitoba Municipal Rural Infrastructure Fund to provide half of the $6.9 million in funding required to build a family-friendly YMCA centre in downtown Brandon.

The provincial government contributed a further $1.7 million for this project through the Building Manitoba Fund. When open, the new downtown Brandon YMCA will offer amenities and programs that will be available to Brandon and Westman residents of all ages. Taken together, along with ongoing investment in children's playgrounds, community gardens, expanded daycare spaces and the new healthy living centre being developed at Brandon University, these announcements represent a long-term provincial commitment to the health and well-being of everyone in the city of Brandon and the Westman region. Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS House Business Mr. Speaker: The honourable Government House Leader, on House business. Hon. Jennifer Howard (Government House Leader): Yes, Mr. Speaker, we're prepared to move into the Committee of Supply. Mr. Speaker: Okay, the business of the House will be Committee of Supply. In the Chamber will be Aboriginal and Northern Affairs, and room 255 will be Justice; room 254 will be Finance. Would the respective Chairs please go to the rooms that they will be chairing, please. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) FINANCE * (14:50) Mr.

Chairperson (Mohinder Saran): Order. Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

May 2, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1303

section of the Committee of Supply will now consider the Estimates of the Department of Finance. Does the honourable minister have an opening statement? Hon. Rosann Wowchuk (Minister of Finance): And, indeed, it is my pleasure to make–oh, I always speak too far away from it. I'm pleased to be able to make a few comments on the Department of Finance, and I would like to begin by speaking about the Budget 2011 that was the second budget I had the opportunity to present.

When you look at the budget, it very much followed our last year's plan, and that is to invest in front-line services, promote economic growth, manage government spending, restore balance and maintain affordability. And I can say to committee members that the plan is working and it is–our Budget 2011 builds on the momentum and focus on family priorities. And I have to say to the members of the committee that, when we were making this decision, we did not make the decision to implement a deficit lightly. This was a very serious consideration.

But we had a choice, and we chose not to slash services or cut–sell assets; we chose to support the economy and improve infrastructure. We invested $7 billion in infrastructure over the last two years, $1.8 billion in the budget 2011-12. This investment in infrastructure has a replacement valued–valued tangible–a capital asset value of $37 billion. On our debt, our debt-to-GDP ratio that–the measure of the affordability of our debt compared to our economy remains significantly lower than it was in 1999.

Budget 2011 projects 26.2 per cent by the fiscal year-end or 6.7 pe r cent lower than it was in 1999, when it was 32.9 per cent. When we look at debt-servicing costs, they are–our debt-servicing costs are at 6 cents on the dollar, and this is less than half of what it was in 1999, when it was 13 cents for every dollar earned. Our plan has helped Manitobans escape the worst of the global economic recession. We are experiencing steady growth in the economy and in jobs. Other provinces have not been as lucky as Manitoba. Our plan has wo rked well.

Our financial results are heading in the right direction are–and–are on track to return to surplus by the end of our plan, 2014-15. I'm very proud that Manitoba remains in the top three most affordable provinces in which to live and work in 19–in 2011. Manitoba is ranked in the top two most affordable provin ces, by Saskatchewan, in their budget 2011.

Budget 2011 introduces new and enhanced tax credits or exemptions for personal income tax, homeowners and tenants, seniors, families with children under 16, for geothermal heating system, for farmers, for small banks, for book printers and publishers and many other areas. Budget 2011 extends tax credits for companies and investors in areas such as manufacturing for equipment, community enterprise and mineral exploration, for people who hire co-op students, graduates and journeypersons and apprentices, and–or–and there's a tax credit for people who buy odour-control equipment.

Manitoba's economy is growing at a steady pace–2.7 per cent this y ear. Despite the global recession in 2009 and because our–of our strategic investment in infrastructure stimulus, we have what Maclean's magazine refers to as the Manitoba miracle of a strong, steady economy. In 2010, Manitoba was the first province to permanently eliminate its small business income tax rate and this year eliminate the general capital tax. In 1999, Manitoba had the highest corporate income tax rate. In 2011, only five other provinces have a lower income–a corporate income tax rate than we do.

Since 1999, personal, property and business tax savings are almost $1.3 billion–will be almost $1.3 billion by 2014. There is a $539-million reduction in personal income tax, $336-million reduction in property tax and $424-million reductions in business tax. We are here today to discuss the Department of Finance's Estimates for 2011-12. The Department of Finance expenditures have decreased. Total expenditures are estimated at $344.4 million for 2011-12. This is a 2.7 per cent–this is 2.7 per cent less than '10-11. In total, $44 million for salaries and operating expenditures for the 10 appropriations in Finance.

There is $3.1 million for capital asset expenses, $42.6 million is for tax credit payments and $257.8 million for core government debt expenditures. This is government's portion of the total–of the

summary debt expenditures of $800.6 million. A decrease in the department budget from the Administration and Finance Division is down by

1304 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 2, 2011 4.5 per cent to $2.6 million. Costs related to capital assets are down 3.4 per cent. Net tax credit payments are down 3.3 per cent, and public debt expenses are down by 3 per cent. That's an overview of some of the items in the Department of Finance, and I would be very pleased to take any questions that committee members might have as we review the Department of Finance Estimates. * (15:00) Mr. Chairperson: We thank the minister for those comments. Does the official opposition critic have any opening comments? Mrs. Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): Mr.

Chair, and just a few opening comments in response to the minister's opening comments, and I thank the minister for her opening remarks. I, first off, want to thank the department and the employees of the department for all the hard work that they put into putting the budget together, based on the direction, of course, given by the NDP government, and I know it's, you know, I certainly appreciate–we do on all sides of the House–all the work done by those in the departments, and I also especially want to thank you for enduring these Estimates process.

I know it's not always the most exciting time, so thanks so much for all of you for being here. I just want to respond to a few things with respect to the minister's comments and the direction that this government has been taking for the last 12 years since they came in to office in 1999. The NDP, we believe, is moving in the wrong direction with their five-year plan. I' m sure that's no shock to the minister here today, but I think it's important to point out a few reasons as to why.

Over the last 12 years, we've seen an unprecedented increase in transfer payments from the federal government at times over those past 12 years when there were very difficult times, and I know the member likes to–a nd the minister likes to go back to the 1990s quite often. But that's when there were significant cuts to transfer payments from the federal government, and that's where there were some significant decisions that needed to be made, some very tough decisions that needed to be made.

But I'll remind the minister that during their time in government that there has not been any decreases in federal transfer payments to the Province. As a matter of fact, there've been record increases if we go back several years. So there were times when the government had the opportunity to set some money aside for what could potentially be a downturn in the economy in Manitoba, but, unfortunately, they chose not to. They chose instead to spend beyond their means, and so, for that reason, I believe that this five-year plan is going in the wrong direction.

I also want to remind the minister that while the rest of Canada actually had some significant declines across our country, although Canada did not weather as poorly as our neighbours to the south of us, our country did relatively well compared to United States. But there were other provinces across the country that did–that had significant downturns in their economy, and Manitoba was not one of them, and I think it's important to point out, from a revenue standpoint.

And I know members opposite love to get up and cheer every time I say this, because they like to take credit on one side for increases in revenues to the Province, but then they also want to say: But we have to run all these deficits because it's tough economic times in Manitoba. So they can't really talk out of both sides of their mouth, and that's what we're finding here is that they are speaking out of both sides of their mouth.

And, you know, really the only thing that was realized over the last number of years, and I believe it was in 2009 where there was one year where the economy was flat, and I remember the Premier at that point saying the flat is the new up; this is good for Manitoba. You know, he has recognized that there has not been overall a decline in the economy in Manitoba. So I would suggest from that, that what I would say and caution the minister on is not to talk out of both sides of her mouth when we're coming to the debate of various issues in Manitoba.

I also want to take us back to 1999 where we–where the NDP government came into power and the budget at the time was around $6 billion. The budget now has almost doubled, and yet, despite the doubling of that and the doubling of our debt in the province–almost the doubling of our debt in the province–I think we need to look at the services because I think the NDP sometimes lose sight of the fact that, as a government, they are here to deliver services to the best of their ability to Manitobans.

And I think if we look at some of the major government departments, one being Justice, there continues to be the revolving door in our criminal

May 2, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1305 justice system. It's, again, yes, more money has been put into the system, but the problem is that the revolving door continues. And so what is not emphasized by this government is what are the actual outputs. What are we getting for the money that we're spending? And the government loves to talk about all the money that's going into government programs, but they negl ect to talk about the outcomes and to what we are getting for those services. And so what I would say, Mr.

Chair, is that it's unfortunate because the revolving door of our criminal justice system remains and has, in many ways in many areas, gotten worse as gang activity skyrockets, and–I know at one point we're the murder capital of Canada and there was all sorts of other things that we were, unfortunately, on the top of the list in Canada, which are not very good things for our province. I think if we looked at wealth–at–sorry, at health care, wait-lists continue to rise in health care. If you look at, you know, children continue to fall through the cracks in our child we lfare system.

We have the lowest graduation rate in the country. We have the highest taxes outside of Québec. The debt has almost doubled, as I had mentioned earlier, since the NDP came to office in 1999, and Manitoba is now–which is really unfortunate–back running significant deficits in our province, and deficits over the next number of years, that, we believe, had the government properly managed over the last 12 years, that we would not have been put into the–we would not have had to be in the position–the deficit positions that we are in today in Manitoba and moving forward for the next four years.

And so I–those would be my opening comments, Mr. Chair, and I welcome the opportunity to ask several questions around policy, and around, you know, going through our Estimates books. Thank you very much. Mr. Chairperson: We thank the critic from the official opposition for those remarks. Under Manitoba practice, debate on the Minister's Salary is the last item considered for a department in the Committee of Supply. Accordingly, we shall now defer consideration of the line item 7.1.(

a) contained in resolution 7.1. At this time we invite the minister's staff to join us at the table and we ask that the minister introduce the staff in attendance once they are here. Ms. Wowchuk: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to introduce my Deputy Minister, Mr. Hugh Eliasson, and Erroll Kavanagh, who is the executive financial officer. Mr. Chairperson: Thank you, Minister. Does the committee wish to proceed through the Estimates of the department chronologically or have a global discussion? Mrs.

Stefanson: In recognizing that we don't necessarily want to have all staff here all the time, I'm prepared to maybe i ndicate–I probably have more general questions for the–today and maybe going forward, but we'll r ecognize the fact that we don't want everyone to be here all the time and the staff's time–so, in a global manner, I guess, is the bottom line, if we could. Mr. Chairperson: Thank you. It is agreed then that questioning for this department will proceed in a global manner, with all resolutions to be passed once questioning has concluded. The floor is now open for questions. Mrs.

Stefanson: And my first list of questions are the usual questions that we ask at the beginning, and many of them you may not have right here on hand–it's staffing questions, that kind of thing, and so if the minister wants to endeavour to get back to me with various lists that I ask for, then that would be great, but we'll just go through it maybe in chronological order. It shouldn't take too much time. Mr. Tom Nevakshonoff, Acting Chairperson, in the Chair Mrs. Stefanson: I wonder if the minister could provide for the committee a list of all current, I guess, Treasury Board ministers. Ms.

Wowchuk: The Treasury Board ministers at this time are the Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiative, Minister–Mr.–oh, I can use their names, Mr. Struthers, Ms. Irvin-Ross, Mr. Mackintosh, Mr. Swan–I have to use their constituencies. Okay, the MLA for Dauphin, the MLA, St. Johns, MLA for Louis Riel, MLA for Minto, and Fort Garry. Mrs. Stefanson: I wonder if the minister could also provide us with a list of all of her political staff in her office, including their name, position and whether or not they are a full-time or part-time employee. * (15:10)

1306 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 2, 2011 Ms. Wowchuk: I have Ms. Carolina Stecher, who works in my office here in Winnipeg, and Mr. Ken Munro, who works in my office in Swan River. Mrs. Stefanson: And just because you mention Ms. Stecher, I also noticed that the–is she the–is she your special assistant? Ms. Wowchuk: Yes, she is. Mrs. Stefanson: I notice that she's listed as an analyst with ETT. I'm just wondering what her actual position is. Ms. Wowchuk: That was the job she had before I became Minister of Finance. When I became Minister of Finance, she came to my office and is now my special assistant.

Mrs. Stefanson: Thank you for clarifying that. Is there a specific list of all staff in the minister's and the deputy minister's offices? I guess both political and your side, I guess, and we've already done that, but. Ms. Wowchuk: In my office, we have Kristine McCallum, who's my secretary; I had indicated Ken Munro; Stephanie Bugera, who is an administrative assistant; Elizabeth Babaian, who is an administrative assistant. And in the deputy's office we have Miriam Jezik. Mrs. Stefanson: Is it possible to get the number of staff currently employed in the department? Ms.

Wowchuk: The department has 452.2 full-time equivalents in the–this year. Mrs. Stefanson: And could the minister indicate the number of staff that resigned this year, or were terminated or transferred to other positions, and where they may have gone? Ms. Wowchuk: We have–in this year we had 14 retirements, and there have been some people have– that have moved to different jobs, different departments. And I believe one person has left the department and moved to a–moved outside of government. Mrs.

Stefanson: So for those that transferred to other positions, could I have their names and where they were transferred to, what other department they were transferred to? Ms. Wowchuk: We can get that for you. Mrs. Stefanson: That's fine. And for those that resigned, could we get the list of names for those that resigned as well? Ms. Wowchuk: I mentioned the ones had–who had retired. Is that the ones? If you're looking for the ones that retired, yes, we can give you those as well. Mrs.

Stefanson: Yes, I believe you said there were 14 that retired, so for the names of those, and then you mentioned there was one that resigned and left for outside of government. Ms. Wowchuk: I can get those–that list for the member. Mrs. Stefanson: Is there–I'm not sure if this would apply to the Department of Finance or not, sometimes positions are reclassified. Has there–have there been any positions that have been reclassified anywhere in the department? Ms. Wowchuk: Yes, I believe there was a few. Mrs.

Stefanson: I guess, if the minister could indicate the description of any position that has been reclassified and what–yes, what those positions are. Ms. Wowchuk: There were 20 classifications reviewed for positions in the department, and this includes the Manitoba Securities Commission; two initial reviews that established a position clarification; 12 classifica tion reviews that resulted in no change in the position classification; and six classification reviews that resulted in the position classification going up. Mrs.

Stefanson: Can the minister indicate if all the staff years are currently filled and if not, what the current vacancy rate is? Ms. Wowchuk: There are 52 vacant positions as of March 31st, 2011. Mrs. Stefanson: Is it possible to get a listing of all the vacant positions? Ms. Wowchuk: I can tell you that in Admin and Finance, there is one position; in the Treasury division, there is one position; in the Comptroller's office, 13; Taxation, 23.5; Federal-Provincial Relations and research, five; and Treasury Board Secretariat, 8.5. Mrs.

Stefanson: Are these positions that are to remain vacant permanently or is this temporary? Ms. Wowchuk: All of these are temporary vacancies.

May 2, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1307 Mrs. Stefanson: Is there an indication of a time frame for when those positions will be filled? Ms. Wowchuk: You know, the department reviews them. Some are vacant longer; it depends on which position it is. Some–they could be vacant a long–for a longer period. Some could be filled quicker. Mrs. Stefanson: Have there been any impacts on the department as a result of the vacancy rate? Ms. Wowchuk: It is the view of the department that they can continue to do the work of the department with these vacancies. Mrs.

Stefanson: So there haven't–have there been any projects that have been delayed as a result of the vacancy rate? Ms. Wowchuk: There's always a bit of a vacancy rate and departments adjust to that. For example, last year there was 46 vacancies, and some of those were filled. Now there is–there are some additional vacancies, but jobs are posted, positions are filled and–but I would say that, no, there are not projects that are–that have fallen behind because of this. Mrs. Stefanson: Is this a vacancy rate that has–that historically is roughly the same as it has been from a year-to-year basis? Ms.

Wowchuk: On the average it would be about the same. As we looked at the numbers, we see that there are people that sometimes–that we had a number of retirements this year and it takes time to fill those positions. So this would be an average number of what vacancies would be. Mrs. Stefanson: I think I recall asking this question last year and we had to maybe put a dollar value to a minimum of it, but I believe in the Department of Finance, there, you are–th ere are contracts that go out to tender.

And I'm wondering if there are–if the minister can indicate how many and what type of contracts are being awarded directly–maybe over the $25,000 range? * (15:20) Ms. Wowchuk: I'd like to begin–I neglected to introduce Tannis Mindell, who is the treasury–secretary to Treasury Board, who has joined us at the table. Of the–there were 78 contracts that were untendered. There was 49 that were in the range of $1,000 to $4,999; between the range of $5,000 to $25,000, there was 24; and from $25,000 and over, there was five; for a total value of $2.11 million. Mrs. Stefanson: Okay, I thank the minister for that.

Ministerial travel. I wonder if the minister can indicate how many out-of-province trips she has taken in the past year and provide pertinent details of the trips, such as the purpose, the dates, who from her staff went and what the costs were. Ms. Wowchuk: In 2010-11, there was three out-of-province trips. So there was–the first trip was to–in December–or one of the trips, December 19th and 20th, to a ministerial conference. There was a trip to a meeting in Nunavut with the Premier in August.

There was a meeting in September with investors and financial institutes, and there was a–in May, there was a meeting of financial institutes and investors. In June, there wa s a ministers' meeting. In February, there was a–first, 2010, there was a joint Cabinet meeting with Saskatchewan. In February, there was a provincial-territorial council meeting as well. And all of–I can tell the member that all of these are listed–they can all be found online. In November–so there was some travel related to the Finance ministers' meetings.

There was a couple of trips with–to meet with investors and banks, and then there was the meetings with the–interprovincial meetings with–one with the joint Cabinet meeting with Saskatchewan and one meeting to–in Nunavut to–meeting with the government of Nunavut. Mrs. Stefanson: Just the meetings with investors and financial institutions, I assume, is that in Toronto or New York? Where were those meetings? Ms. Wowchuk: There was one meeting that was in New York and another meeting that was in–another one that–there was one meeting in Toronto. There was a meeting in London, Düsseldorf, Frankfurt and Munich. Mrs.

Stefanson: Just wondering how many of the government department typically–and just, I mean, again, I'm just sort of asking this out of curiosity, because I just–I'm just wondering how many of the department and who, typically, would go with you to those–the meetings with the financial institutions. Ms. Wowchuk: When I went on these trips, I travelled with my deputy minister and the assistant deputy minister of the Treasury Board–Treasury. Mrs. Stefanson: In June you mentioned a ministerial meeting. Where was that?

1308 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 2, 2011 Ms. Wowchuk: That was in Prince Edward Island. Mrs. Stefanson: Sorry, again, just to clear this up. In February there was a provin cial territory–provincial and territory Cabinet meeting you mentioned. Where was that? Ms. Wowchuk: In February the meeting was with the security regulators, and that was held in Edmonton. Mrs. Stefanson: Were there any–or where there ever any political staff that travelled with you on these–on any of these trips? Ms. Wowchuk: My special assistant went with me to the Finance ministers' meeting in Alberta. Mrs.

Stefanson: And that was the only one that you had any political staff on? Ms. Wowchuk: That's right. Mrs. Stefanson: Was there ever any travel that was paid for–any travel by th e Premier (Mr. Selinger) that was paid for by the Department of Finance–out of your department? Ms. Wowchuk: We'd have to check that. I'm not sure about the one to Nunavut. Mrs. Stefanson: Were there ever–were there any other Cabinet ministers that travelled with you to–on any of these trips, that was paid for by the Department of Finance? Ms.

Wowchuk: The only one there was–could have been somebody with was on the trip to Nunavut, but the policy is that if it–a minister's going from a different department, it's paid for from that department. Mrs. Stefanson: I thank the minister very much. That's all I have with those sort of housekeeping-type questions at the beginning. Just to jump into more of a–maybe start off with a policy question for the minister. And I know we've talked about this in the past, but I just thought I might get an update from the minister.

In 2005 Saskatchewan struck the business tax review committee, and it was as a result of a–the process, I guess, followed as a result of the 1999 review on personal income taxes. The Saskatchewan personal income tax review committee–the recommendations were implemented and, you know, Saskatchewan's economy has done quite well since then. And I just wanted to ask the minister if there is any kind of consideration at all in striking a tax review committee, similar to that of Saskatchewan, or maybe not similar, and perhaps going another direction. Ms. Wowchuk: Mr.

Acting Chairperson, we work very closely with a wide variety of groups as we establish our policies, and certainly Business Council of–Business Council is one that we–has–is very thoughtful and puts a lot of ideas out. * (15:30) W e t a l k t o p e o p l e w h e n o u r – w h e n w e d o o u r budget consultation and so our discussions are with a broad range of people on a regular basis. And so, if we are–the member is looking whether we're setting up a committee to review this for us. No, that's not our plan.

We would much prefer to work with the various groups who know the province and have–and offer a lot of advice. Mrs. Stefanson: Well, I just–I wonder if there's any kind of a plan, and maybe it's part of her five-year plan to establish some sort of a review of the–of taxation in Manitoba, whether it be from personal income tax or business tax or we've got the payroll tax. There's a number of different taxes in Manitoba, and I know the Business Council came out with their report and I know the minister made some comments on that review.

And I know there's various submissions through the budget consultation, but in moving forward, I mean, nothing has really seemed to move in the direction of an overall lowering of taxes in our province and sort of getting that under control, especially in the area of income taxes. I mean there's many examples of us being the highest taxed outside of Québec, highest taxed west of Québec. We still have the payroll tax, last province to have that type of a tax, which doesn't make us competitive with other jurisdictions in Canada.

I'm wondering, in her five-year plan, what is the plan to make us more competitive and attractive as a province, especially with our neighbours like Saskatchewan, if she can indicate what her plan is for the next five years to make us more competitive in Manitoba. Ms. Wowchuk: And if the member opposite would look at the budget and look at what other people have said about Manitoba, Manitoba is very competitive. And when you look at our cost of living and if you look at where we are in our taxation, and when you compare all of t hose things, we certainly are competitive. And I was very pleased that

May 2, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1309 Saskatchewan, in their budget, even recognizes how competitive Manitoba is. But you know, when–I think when you talk about business, we have to–I would remind the member that Manitoba is the first province to eliminate its small-business income tax rate, and this year we're eliminating a general capital tax. When you look at where we were with taxation in 1999 for corporations, the corporate income tax rate in 1999, we had the highest one. Now there are other–we are much lower than where we were in 1999.

If you look our personal–each one of–we have–every budget we've been bringing forward, we've been able to decrease some taxes, and if you look at the total impact since 1999, personal property and business tax savings are almost $1.3 billion. This does keep us competitive. Our personal income–we have personal income tax reductions. We have listened to Manitobans. We've made changes in a variety of programs that help seniors with their tax credits.

We've reduced–extended tax credits to companies as they make investments in this province, and those have been certainly significant tax credits when it comes to manufacturing equipment, community enterprises, and in the mining sector.

So when you look at all of the changes that we have made both in income tax and various tax credits–and yes, we do favour making changes with tax credits because you then support a wider group of people–but if you look at all of these things, whether it be in business taxes, whether it be in tax credits for companies and investors, all of those areas that you look at, our personal tax and our business tax measures have been quite positive and has helped us achieve the point where we– Maclean's magazine talks about us being the Manitoba miracle.

And when you look at the various steps that we have taken, our personal income tax savings are certainly benefiting Manitobans, and I look at all of these changes, and Manitoba is very competitive. Mrs. Stefanson: Well, I guess the one concern I have moving forward, and despite what the minister wants to talk about, and that's fine, and she can indicate all of these things, but the fact of the matter is that we're still projected to run deficits in our province over the next number of years, and so the competitive–her plan in the past for the past 12 years has not put us in a competitive position today.

When we're still running deficits, other provinces are getting out of deficits more quickly, and it's just, you know, from a taxation standpoint, I know when you look at–from a personal income tax standpoint, you look at a two-earner family of four earning $60,000 a year, we're still–someone in Manitoba is earning $2,317 less because of the income tax structure under this Manitoba government. And I know it's–you know, we're still the highest taxed outside of Québec, and I don't see how that makes us more competitive with other provinces across the country when it comes to a taxation standpoint.

There is no plan to reduce or eliminate the payroll tax, and, you know, that's something that, I think, in Manitoba, you know, if the minister had listened to some of the budget consultations, and I received copies of some of them as well, that was a significant theme in there, in terms of something that the Business Council would like some direction on with this government, and other organizations, the Taxpayers Federation, the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, there were other organizations that really want the government to move in that direction.

I wonder if the minister can indicate what the plan is with respect to the payroll tax. Ms. Wowchuk: The health and education levy has been in place in Manitoba for many, many years, and it is in place to help with–to–with health-care costs. Other jurisdictions have health-care premiums. Other–and we do not have a health-care premium, and the–so we have the health and education tax that is in place to help with–raise revenue in those areas. We have chosen to look at other areas and we have–we're–talked–Business Council and made some suggestions. We have looked at how we can help small business.

Small business is indeed a very important part of the economy of this province, and we have taken steps to make reductions in various areas and also to put tax credits in place to help those people who are making investments continue to make investments. So the business community has made many suggestions, but the business community has also recognized the importance of doing things like the Research and Development Tax Credit. Those are things that help us grow this province.

The farming community is a very important business sector in this province, and that's why we've raised the Farmland School Tax Rebate from 75 per cent to 80 per cent, and we have taken various steps to reduce property taxes by increasing the education

1310 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 2, 2011 property tax credit. We–when we look at how we've–we talked about one question in the House today about people being healthier, that's why we have the tax credit for activities. And now we have a new tax credit for children in the arts and culture–for arts and cultural activity, tax credits for people who look after–who are caregivers at home. So you look at all of those various areas and some of them are tax credits that directly benefit business; the others are directly a benefit to families.

And you have to find a balance between those, and that's why we've made the decision to take the steps that we have so that we increase the tax exemptions for people, and, in fact, those–we are able–by doing those things, we're able to protect those front-line services that Manitoba families depend on and, at the same time, have those tax credits and investments that help the business community. * (15:40) Mrs. Stefanson: So I just–I know–and, again, I'll just ask quickly again, because the question was about the payroll tax and I'm just wondering if the minister can indicate, is there a plan?

I know the Business Council has asked for some sort of a phase-out of it. What is the minister's response to–in her budget consultations with the Business Council with respect to the payroll tax? Ms. Wowchuk: Well, the Business Council made other suggestions too. The Business Council suggested that we increase payroll–we introduce the PST by 1 per cent, and we definitely said we are not raising that PST by 1 per cent.

We didn't accept that recommendation, but the Business Council has made other recommendations, and a business council is there to represent small business as well, and some of the changes that we have made in taxation is– benefits small business. There are the whole–the issue of research and innovation, investment in bank–in mining tax credits. All of those reflect on business. So we listened to some of their recommendations and were able to implement them, but we're not able to implement all of the recommendations.

And I certainly, very quickly, said that we were not interested in raising sales tax by 1 per cent, because that would have had a very negative impact on Manitoba families. And we are just coming through a downturn in the economy, and putting that additional tax on people would not be a positive step. Mrs. Stefanson: What is the equivalent of one point of the provincial sales tax? [interjection] Or 1 per cent, sorry, 1 per cent, yes. Ms. Wowchuk: One per cent sales–increase in sales tax would raise about $239 million. Mrs. Stefanson: Thank the minister for that.

And just talking about the sales tax, I know we had lunch–a luncheon meeting with the Association of Manitoba Municipalities last week, and this, of course, was an issue that came up at the meeting. And I know that they have met with the government as well. And I don't think what they're asking for is, you know, a new–any new taxes out there, but they are asking for, perhaps, an existing, perhaps, percentage of the–and I think it was one percentage point or something of the sales tax or the equivalent of.

And I know in this year's budget, it was indicated and sort of in the budget speech that there was one percentage point that was given to the Association of Manitoba Municipalities. Is that over and above any transfers or any monies given to them prior to this out of the operating budget? Or is the–whatever was already ongoing in terms of transfers to them, was that included in the 1 per cent? Ms.

Wowchuk: W h a t w e d i d i n t h i s b u d g e t f o r municipalities is change the formula and how they were funded, and this guarantees them a growth revenue, because as the economy grows they will be guaranteed one percentage point of the growth in revenues. And, as Manitoba's economy grows, and our economy is growing quickly, there will be more revenues. So this guarantees and spells out to the municipalities the amount that they will receive. There is new money in this, and we certainly–we–there–this is a 53 per cent increase since 2005-06. That's a significant increase.

And so there is some of the existing money that's in there, but there is also new money, and the formula is in place so that, as th e economy grows, they will be–they know what their growth revenue will be. Mrs. Stefanson: How much in the way of new money? Ms. Wowchuk: It's a 5 per cent overall increase this year. Mrs. Stefanson: So that's 5 per cent over and above what they were receiving last year? Ms. Wowchuk: They–this money includes–there's more money for municipal infrastructure and transit,

May 2, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1311 and it's 5 per cent–a 5 per cent overall increase this year. Mrs. Stefanson: So what did they receive last year? Ms. Wowchuk: I don't have that exact number here, but I can get it for the member next year. But I can say to the– An Honourable Member: Next year? Ms. Wowchuk: Next–I can provide her with the information. But I can tell you that since 2005 we've more than doubled our funding to the City of Winnipeg for their roads a nd bridges. It grew from $14.1 million in 2005 to $32.6 million in 2009.

And this–so if you look at the various municipalities, you can see that there is a significant increase and that it is a guaranteed formula. It changes the formula, it's guaranteed and, as the economy grows, so will their funding. So–and–there–when the budget came out there was endorsements of people who supported it. In fact, Doug Dobrowolski, who is the AMM president, said on CJOB, right after the budget, he said: finally, we've got some predictable funding going forward. It's something we've been asking for for a long time. It's a recognition of growth revenues to help with the infrastructure deficit.

Dave Angus said: I do appreciate the support of a one percentage point of PST going to municipalities for infrastructure. And the dean of Business and Economics at the University of Winnipeg said: I think that's one of the most innovative parts of this budget. So there is, when we brought this model out, there was–people were appreciative of it. The municipalities had said–has been asking for a long time for some predictability, some way that they could be part of the growing economy. This formula gives that to them. Mrs.

Stefanson: Just wondering if the minister has the answer to the question as to what the municipalities received last year. Ms. Wowchuk: I can give the member some numbers, but for detailed questions we should probably work–wait till we get to the Department of Local Government. But for 2010 municipalities got $100.7 million, and in 2011 it's $105.6 million, a 5–a 4.9–a 5 per cent overall increase. When you look at the City of Winnipeg, the City of Winnipeg, in 2010, got $225.3 million; in 2011 it's $236.7 million.

So you could see that there is–again, it's an overall increase of 5 per cent for the City of Winnipeg. So the formula is changed. It's predictable, and this year it meant a 5 per cent increase for everyone. Mrs. Stefanson: Did the minister not indicate that what was going to the municipalities was equivalent to 1 per cent of the sales tax? * (15:50) Ms. Wowchuk: If you look at the total growth of municipal infrastructure and transit grants, in 2005-06, it was $155 million. In 2011-12, it's $239 million. That's equal to one percentage point of PST.

If you look at today, one percentage point–if you look at the growth that's projected, there is additional–there is also additional money that goes for the operating and support grants to municipalities over and above that. Mrs. Stefanson: Okay, so the $239 million that you've just quoted me, you said, back in 2005-2006 was $155 million; 2011-12 you're estimating $235 million, which is equivalent of one percentage point of the sales tax. What was that figure last year, the $239 million? Ms.

Wowchuk: I would have to get the member the number but I–there is–what they are getting now, what is–they're getting in 2011-12 is equivalent to 1 per cent of PST. And the amount that they were getting last year is something that I'll have to get back to the member with, or if she can ask that question in Local Government. Mrs. Stefanson: Well, was it less 5 per cent of the $239 million that they received last year? Ms. Wowchuk: You know, I would encourage the member to ask this question in Local Government. It's a complicated formula. This deals with their infrastructure and transit.

There are other funds that go there that are included in–that are over and above this formula. So there–I would encourage her to ask this particular question in more detail when she will get to the other department. Mrs. Stefanson: Well, the minister indicated a number that was back in 2005-2006. There was $155 million and then she skipped a whole bunch of years and goes up to 2011-2012. I mean, are there

1312 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 2, 2011 not a bunch of, you know, numbers in between there that we could fill in the blanks here? I just–I'm not sure why she can't–she won't answer the question. Ms. Wowchuk: I won't answer the question because I don't have that information here. I have the information from 2005-06 and I have the information of 2011-12. And 2011-12, of $239 million equates to 1 per cent of–one percentage point of PST. Those are the numbers I have here.

If the member would like the–each of the incremental numbers from '05-06 all the way up to '11-12, I would–I could provide them for her, but a better place to get those numbers would be when we get to the Department of Local Government and they will have the numbers broken down year by year. Mrs. Stefanson: Who collects the sales tax revenues? Ms. Wowchuk: Taxation division, Department of Finance. Mrs.

Stefanson: So if sales tax revenues are collected by the Department of Finance, and this was clearly billed in the budget speech and address as one percentage point of the PST, which is–falls under the jurisdiction of the Department of Finance, I believe it's entirely appropriate to ask for what this figure is in the Department of Finance. If it is $239 million for this year, I think it's entir ely appropriate because it was billed as this, as being a certain percentage of the sales tax, that we should be able to find out from the Department of Finance what it was for last year.

Why can we not find that out at this–you know, we're happy to ask in other government departments as well, but I think it's entirely appropriate, given how this has been packaged by this government in their five-year plan this year, it's entirely appropriate to be asking for it in these Estimates. Ms. Wowchuk: I would say to the member that this is a new model that we're using. Last year, the funding to the municipalities was not based on one point of the 7 per cent PST. It was a different formula.

But the member is asking about how much money municipalities got last year, and what I'm explaining is that we have introduced a new model and we are investing in our municipal infrastructure and transit something that's equivalent to one point of PST, which is $239 million. What was the budget last year for those municipalities does not have anything to do with the PST collected because it wa s–the funding last year did not relate to 1 per cent–one point of the PST. This is something municipalities had asked for.

They were asking for more predictability, and we've worked out a way to give them more predictability by tying their funding to the growth in revenues. This is going to be in legislation. My friend will have to bring in new legislation and change the formula for funding. But I cannot say what the amount was last year because it was not funded according to the PST formula. Mrs. Stefanson: So is the amount that the municipalities is receiving, is that tied to the rate of growth or is it tied to one percentage point of the sales tax? Ms. Wowchuk: It's tied to one point of the–per cent of the PST.

But as our economy grows, we know that the revenues will grow in this province, and this formula, this new model, will share that growth. As the economy grows there will be a higher level of PST, and in the formula, they will be able to predict exactly what that growth is. Mrs. Stefanson: But the PST could grow at a higher rate than economic growth in the province. So does that mean that the municipalities will receive a higher percentage of increase or will it just be tied to the rate of growth? Ms. Wowchuk: The–it will be tied to be equal to one point of the 7 per cent PST; that's what it'll be tied to. Mrs.

Stefanson: And if there is a decline for some reason, will then it decline or what–or will it just stay what it was the previous year? Ms. Wowchuk: Well, I have no doubt that our economy is going to continue to grow, so I think that's a hypothetical question and I don't–I do not believe that that is something that we have to worry about. With the way the population in this province is going, the way investments are growing in this province, I anticipate that we will see more revenues, and, through this formula, we are prepared to share them with municipalities as they have asked us for. Mrs.

Stefanson: Well, if I go back to–and I just–I'll wrap this up here. We will ask the questions in the other government department. I still think I should be able to get those answers here and I would hope that the minister would get me those answers, if she can, with respect to what the municipalities received last year. But I assume it's 5 per cent less of–you know, that $239 million represents a 5 per cent increase over last year. If it was a 5 per cent increase over last

May 2, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1313 year, then it's not the equivalent of a 1 per cent increase in, you know, of a 1 per cent increase in the PST. And that's where the municipalities are having problems with this, because it's only a slight increase over last year as opposed to it actually being tied with a 1 per cent of the PST in new monies, and I think that that's what they have a problem with. Does the minister want to comment on that? * (16:00) Ms. Wowchuk: I did not say it was a 1 per cent increase, that they were–the whole amount was an increase.

I said that it was growing–it would grow gradually. It's equivalent to a 5 per cent increase overall. But, when you look at the total amount that is going into Infrastructure and Transportation this year, it's equivalent to 1 per cent of PST, and will be every year. It will continue to grow as the economy grows; it will be 1 per cent. So if–as our economy grows, and if you look at the chart that–right now, it's about $239 million. If you look at it for next year, we anticipate that it will be roughly–it looks like it could be about 250 next year.

And, then, as you–as we look out–in five years, it will be around $300 million. I'm–just–and I'm looking at the chart roughly. But you could see the kind of growth that's projected and from this–and that's the growth that's anticipated in PST. And I trust the financial analysts and the projections that are made, not only by the department here in Manitoba, but projections that are made from very reliable sources in Canada. As they make these projections of how our economy will grow, this formula will be in place and municipalities will share it. For this year, it is about a 5 per cent overall increase. Mrs.

Stefanson: So the 5 per cent increase that you were referring to earlier, wa s that this year over last year? Ms. Wowchuk: Yes, that's right. Mrs. Stefanson: So is–that's not a 5 per cent increase. Like, $239 million is not representing the 5 per cent increase then? So what is the actual 5 per cent increase then from? Like, it's–what are the numbers that you're deriving the 5 per cent increase from? Ms. Wowchuk: For the City of Winnipeg, last year, they got $225.3 million. This year, they're going to get $236.7 million. That's a 5 per cent increase.

For the–other municipalities, last year, they got $100.7 million. This year, they will get $105.6 million, and that's a 5 per cent increase in the–in their budgets for transit and for infrastructure,–and operating, sorry. Mrs. Stefanson: Okay, so what is the–yes, again, it goes–what is the $239-million number, then? What does that include? Ms. Wowchuk: The $239 million, which is equivalent to 1 per cent PST, is our–the muni

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	39-5-38
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	39th 5th hansardpdf 38.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	8302c759bdf7862205c753b2d56cea1889034b01

Source file is stored in the law ingest library (pdf).