Manitoba Hansard — 8 December 1999 (Sitting 11, 37th Legislature, 1st Session)

37-1-11

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

First Session - Thirty-Seventh Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. L No. 11 - 1:30 p.m., Wednesday, December 8, 1999

Member AGLUGUB, Cris ALLAN, Nancy ASHTON, Steve, Hon. ASPER, Linda BARRETT, Becky, Hon. CALDWELL, Drew, Hon. CERILLI, Marianne CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. CUMMINGS, Glen DACQUAY, Louise DERKACH, Leonard DEWAR, Gregory DOER, Gary, Hon. DRIEDGER, Myrna DYCK, Peter ENNS, Harry FAURSCHOU, David FILMON, Gary FRIESEN, Jean, Hon. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. GILLESHAMMER, Harold HEL WER, Edward HICKES, George JENNISSEN, Gerard KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie LATHLIN, Oscar, Hon. LAURENDEAU, Marcel LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. LOEWEN, John MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. MAGUIRE, Larry MALOWAY,Jim MARTINDALE, Doug McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon. MIHYCHUK, MaryAnn, Hon.

MITCHELSON, Bonnie NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom PENNER, Jack PENNER, Jim PITURA, Frank PRAZNIK, Darren REID, Daryl REIMER, Jack ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. ROCAN, Denis RONDEAU, Jim SALE, Tim, Hon. SANTOS, Conrad SCHELLENBERG, Harry SCHULER, Ron SELINGER, Greg, Hon. SMITH, Joy SMITH, Scott STEFANSON, Eric STRUTHERS, Stan TWEED, Mervin WOWCHUK, Rosano, Hon. MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Seventh Legislature Constituency The Maples St. Vital Thompson Riel Inkster Brandon East Radisson Kildonan Ste.

Rose Seine River Russell Selkirk Concordia Charleswood Pembina Lakeside Portage Ia Prairie Tuxedo Wolseley River Heights Minnedosa Gimli Point Douglas Flin Flon St. James The Pas St. Norbert La Verendrye Fort Whyte St. Johns Arthur-Virden Elmwood Burrows Lord Roberts Minto River East Interlake Emerson Steinbach Morris Lac du Bonnet Transcona Southdale Rupertsland Carman Assiniboia Fort Rouge Wellington Rossmere Springfield St. Boniface Fort Garry Brandon West Kirkfield Park Dauphin-Roblin Turtle Mountain Swan River Political Affiliation N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. P.C. N.D.P.

N.D.P. P.C. P.C. P.C. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. Lib. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P.

397 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, December 8, 1999 The House met at 1:30 p.m. PRAYERS ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS TABLING OF REPORTS Mr. Speaker: I am pleased to table the fo llowing reports, copies of which have been previously distributed: the Annual Report of the Office of the Provincial Auditor, Operations of the Office, fo r the fiscal year ending March 31, 19 99 and the Summer 19 99 Report of the Office of the Provincial Auditor, Value-f or-Money Audits.

I am also pleased to table the fo llowing reports: the 19 98 Annual Report of the Ombuds man Access and Privacy; also a Special Report of the Ombudsman, a Privacy Snapshot dated September 19 99. Introduction of Guests Mr. Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, may I direct the attention of honourable members to the gallery where we have with us today from Sisler High thirty-six Grade 11 students under the direction of Mr. Chris Bandfield. This school is located in the constituency of the honoura ble member fo r Burrows (Mr. Martindale).

Also, from Maples Col legiate, eleven Grades 9 to 12 students under the direction of Mr. Murray Go ldenberg. This school is located in the constituency of the honoura ble member fo r The Maples (Mr. Aglugub ). From Sandy Bay School, fifteen Grade 9 students under the direction of Mr. John Paramor. This school is located in the con stituency of the honourable member fo r Ste. Rose (Mr. Cummings). On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you here today. ORAL QUESTION PERIOD Hog Industry Marketing System Mr. Gary Filmon (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, my question is fo r the Premier.

Yesterday the Minister of Agriculture (Ms. Wowchuk) indicated that she is prepared to move back to the single-desk monopoly system of marketing hogs in our province, provided that it was the wish of a majo rity of producers. My question to the Premier is: is this the policy of Today's NDP government in Manitoba? Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr. Speaker, it is the policy of Today's NDP to lis ten to the people of Manitoba. I recall almost three years to the day that we were proposing that there be a referendum fo r the sale of public assets after a government had broken its promise.

Today's NDP will be bringing in legislation so that tomorrow our children and gra ndchildren will have the owner ship of Crown corporations and will have a direct say if a government is going to break its word and try to sell those Crown corpora tions against the public will. That is Today's NDP, Mr. Speaker, not like yesterday's Conse rvative Party. On the issue of hogs, our position was that there should be a vote of the producers to determine whether the marketing system would be the proposed system of the fo rmer Minister of Agriculture or the marketing system that existed in the past.

The minister, yesterday, indicated clearly that she will be in consultation with the producers, and obviously we believe in con sulting with the people most directly affected, and that is the hog producers themselves. * (13 35)

398 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 8, 19 99 Mr. Filmon: Mr. Speaker, I point out to the Premier that the single-desk monopoly system that was brought in place in this province by a fo rmer NDP government was brought in place without any ref erendum approval of the hog producers. Yesterday, during his remarks on the throne speech, the member fo r Interlake (Mr. Nevak shonof

f) indicated that he is opposed to dual marketing of hogs, so since the Premier did not answer the question, is that the position of the New Democratic government that it wants to move back to single-desk monopoly selling of hogs in this province? Mr. Doer: First of all, the minister yesterday said, we have always said, that it will be the producers that will decide what should happen. The Cons ervatives did not give the producers the opportunity to have a say.

I have met with a number of producers, and would believe the consensus of the minister and myself, based on listening to those speakers, is that the present system is working fo r the major ity of them. We hope the Schneider's operation, if it proceeds, will even increase the prices even further fo r those producers, notwith standing the fact that many of them almost went under last January, but the position of the Minister of Agriculture (Ms. Wowchuk) that we will listen to the producers, that we will consult with the producers, is still the position of the government.

If the producers like and feel the present system is producing the best oppor tunities for their investments, we certainly will suppor t that. Mr. Filmon: The point, Mr. Speaker, is that the fo rmer New Democrat government that brought in monopoly marketing of hogs in this province did not have the vote of the producers to do that. I am sure that he is aware, the Premier is or he should be, that 20 percent of the producers in this province produce 80 percent of the hogs today in the province. Given that Michael McCain on several occasions, including this

article in the Brandon Sun from December 3, 19 97, said: We would not have made this investment without it ref erring to dual marketing of hogs, and the investment, of course, is the $1 1 7-million invest- ment that Maple Leaf made in the plant in Brandon. Given that situation, did the Premier indicate during his discussions with Mr. Dodds, the CEO of Schneider's, the other day, that his government is considering reverting to single desk monopoly selling of hogs in the province? Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, the government did not express that view to Mr. Dodds, nor did Mr. Dodds ask about that issue.

The Minister of Agriculture (Ms. Wowchuk) basically has stated that we are listening to producers. Mr. Speaker, we are not, in the answer to the question, changing the situation back to the single-desk marketing system, but we did say we would continue to listen to the producers here in Manitoba. I think that the Minister of Agriculture has indicated that in her question that was posed yesterday, and certainly it was not a concern of Mr. Dodds at the meeting we had Monday afterno on. The concern Mr.

Dodds had was that the $11 million of provincial money that was placed in the Brandon plant be made available to a similar investment, in fact, a larger investment, fo r the Schneider's plant here in Winnipeg. His concern was that he and his proposed investment be treated in a comparable way to the investment that was made by Maple Leaf, which added up, between the City ofBr andon and the Province of Manitoba, to be $19 million. Those are the questions he raised to us.

He had the numbers from the Granny's Poultry operation; he had the numbers from the Portage Ia Prairie operation that was supported by the previous government; he had the numbers from the Brandon operation. He did not raise the issue of the marketing system as an issue with us. The Minister of Agriculture said that we are listening to producers and will continue to listen to them. I do not think the fo rmer Premier should be alarmed in any way, shape or fo rm. We are going to do what is best for the total industry, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, with a new question.

Mr. Filmon: Yes, Mr. Speaker. In order to help him make a decision, a decision that could

December 8, 19 99 LEGISLA TIVE AS SEMBLY OF MANITOBA 399 impact on potentially another thousand jobs in the expansion in Brandon and another 1, 200 jobs in the expansion of Schneider's, would he be willing to write to the CEO of Schneider's and ask him whether or not the reversion to single desk selling would have an impact on his decision? Mr. Doer: I am not sure whether the Leader of the Opposition heard the answer to the question he posed. The answer to the question that he posed, in terms of my meeting with Mr.

Dodds, is his concern about the $11 -million cheque signed by the fo rmer government to the new proposed Maple Leaf plant in Brandon . He has the numbers, and we have the numbers. Those are the concerns he had. We have agreed- An Honourable Member: Just ask him about this. Just would you ask him about this. Mr. Doer: You know, you are making allegations that are not true. You are making allegations about- Mr. Speaker, the CEO [interjection] * (1 340) Mr. Speaker: Order, please. An Honourable Member: This is a simple issue. Mr.

Doer: Well, it may be a simple issue to members opposite: write a cheque fo r $11 million and do not do anything else. For us it is not a simple issue. Writing a cheque fo r $1 1 million is not a simple issue. We believe strongly- Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Mr. Doer: The CEO of Schneider's is willing to invest $125 million- An Honourable Member: Is he willing to do it with a monopoly or- Mr. Doer: Perhaps the Leader of the Opposition would allow me to answer the question, Mr. Speaker. It is a serious question, and I want to give a serious answer.

The CEO of Schneider's is willing to invest $12 5 million in a plant in Winnipeg subject to the provincial government and the municipal government matching the same public investment made by the previous government and by the community of Brandon. Those were the only issues raised by the CEO to us. He felt very confident. In fact, he has people right now working with hog producers all across Manitoba to ensure that he could have the supply of hogs, particularly when you consider the numbers of hogs required for the Maple Leaf plant. Mr.

Dodds and I had agreed to work in a co operative way with the City of Winnipeg, something that has not happened in the past, by the way, fo r economic development and to have our phones available at all times to make sure that if there is any breakdown in the technical negotiations, that that would not be an impediment fo r this project going fo rward. If Mr. Dodds wants to raise any issue with us, we will respond, but the answer to the question that you raised yesterday is we will continue to consult with producers.

That does not mean we are going to change and go back to the single desk method and members opposite can fear monger all they want; it will get them nowhere. Mr. Filmon: We are not the ones who are fear mongering. The member fo r Interlake (Mr. Nevakshonof

f) indicated his opposition to dual marketing. The minister herself said she is prepared to reconsider the issue of dual marketing provided a majo rity of producers wanted it. Mr. Speaker, the Premier just made my point. He said that the CEO of Schneider's indicated that they are working directly with producers in order to facilitate this expansion. If he went to single-desk monopoly marketing, then the CEO could not work with individual producers to assure his supply. They would be cutting him off from that option, so my point is: will he ask the CEO, Mr.

Dodds, whether or not a reversion to single-desk monopoly selling will cancel their plans? Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, the CEO, who is willing to invest $12 5 million in a plant in [interjection] You know, the last time I looked, you are not the CEO of Schneider's. If you want

400 LEGI SLATIVE AS SEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 8, I9 99 to be the surrogate representative fo r a company, that is fine. That is your option. But I have the feeling that the CEO of Schneider's does not need the surrogate representation of the Leader of the Opposition. In fact, the CEO of Schneider's, all he wants is to match what he considers to be pretty generous conditions that were given to his competitor in Brandon in the Maple Leaf grants that were made fo r training and infrastructure and other matters in the city of Brandon.

All I have been asked to do with the CEO of the Schneider's plant is to deal with the comparability as they see it, not necessarily as we see it with the plant. We are not reverting back to single desk-as alleged-as stated by the Minister of Agriculture (Ms. Wowchuk) in this House yesterday. * (I 345) Health Care System Bed Openings Mrs. Bonnie Mitchelson (River East): Mr. Speaker, my question is fo r the Minister of Health. During the election campaign, Today's NDP promised to immediately open I 00 new hospi tal beds with I 00 new full-time nurses. That did not happen.

On November 22, they ordered hospitals to open I 00 new beds and staff them, and again that did not happen. Yesterday the Minister of Health promised that today those IOO new beds staffed would be opened. Can he tell me whether the beds are opened and staffed? Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Health): Yes, Mr. Speaker, again I thank the member fo r that question because it allows me to clarify the conf used thinking on the part of the member.

First of f, I appreciate the confidence the member showed in members on this side of the House when she thought that overnight we could deal with the II -year mess which was created by her government. As the member recognizes- Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Mr. Chomiak: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The second point that I want to point out, and as I indicated to the member yesterday is on November 22, and I will again read from the press release. I know the member is having trouble- Mr. Speaker: Order, please. May I remind all members that exhibits are not allowed in the Chamber.

Continue with your answer. Mr. Chomiak: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As we indicated, opening of I38 new permanent beds by the end of April 2000. Health authorities in Winnipeg, Brandon and Thompson will have the flexibility to open l 00 acute care beds as soon as December l. In addition, we said that this would be one step in a process that we announced only less than two months after assuming office, after ll disastrous years of poor health care manage ment and long-term hallway medicine that were inflicted on this province by members opposite. Mrs. Mitchelson: Mr.

Speaker, now that the three deadlines have passed that the Minister of Health promised and committed to, will he indicate to us now when the hundred beds will be opened? Mr. Chomiak: Mr.

Speaker, we also indicated during the course of our debate that one of the real difficulties would be the fact that we have trouble recruiting nurses, and I will quote from my press release: that it would be very difficult to recruit nurses, and when one considers that the fo rmer government fired over a thousand nurses, and when one considers that the fo rmer government closed l ,400 acute care beds in this province, it certainly is a challenge.

But I want to assure the member that today in Manitoba there are more beds open than there were yesterday or the day before, as a result of actions and plans that we announced on November 22. St. Boniface Hospital Bed Closures Mrs. Bonnie Mitchelson (River East): Mr. Speaker, I have a new question fo r the Minister of Health. During the election campaign, the now Premier- Mr. Speaker: Order, please. On a new question?

December 8, 19 99 LEGISLATIVE AS SEMBLY OF MANITOBA 401 Mrs. Mitchelson: Yes, on a new question. During the election campaign, the now Premier said, and I quote: If it means having our nurses rehired to have beds that we have already paid fo r staffed rather than having people in the hallways, then we do it. Can the Minister of Health explain why one of the first decisions that Today's NDP made upon taking of fice was to close eight permanent acute medical beds at St. Bon iface Hospital, beds which had never been closed before and remain closed today? Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Health): Mr.

Speaker, it is very interesting that the members opposite, who at this time last year had hallways crowded, had not opened any beds, would have the gall to actually come fo rward with a question like that. But I want to indicate to the member opposite that today 25 additional beds have opened in Winnipeg as a result of needs. There are 25 less people in the hallways today than there were yesterday as a result of the action plan we put in place on November 22.

Tomorrow, there will be more beds in place fo r people in the hallways, that have been in the hallways fo r 18 months in this province as a result of lack of activity on the part of members oppos ite. * (1 35 0) Mrs. Mitchelson: Mr. Speaker, I am glad to see he has finally recognized he has not lived up to his election commitment or his election promise. Can the minister explain how he can open 25 new interim beds today and more tomorrow when he could not find the nurses to staff the eight permanent beds that were closed two months ago and remain closed? Mr. Chomiak: Mr.

Speaker, there is no doubt that, as a result of disastrous policies, the morale affecting and the situation affecting nurses in this province has reached a very critical level. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Mr. Chomiak: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

When I went from hospit al-and I am glad the member was able to visit a hospital yesterday to see what conditions are in the hallway-to hospital, I was told three things by the nurses: first, get rid of bureaucracy, and we have done that by molding the two and we are working on that by putting the two authorities together; second, they said: open more beds, and we announced on November 22 that we would make beds available. There are more beds open today, there will be more beds opened tomorrow.

Thirdly, they said: you have to do something about the nursing shortage , and we announced both on November 22, both on the day we assumed of fice, and now there will be a plan to deal with the disastro us situation that had been produced in this province as a result of their neglect and their not-caring attitude towards nurses fo r the past 11 years. Mrs.

Mitchelson: Since Today's NDP guaran teed that no hosp ital bed will be closed until there is sufficient space in personal care homes to ensure long-term patients will be cared fo r, can the Minister of Health tell us whether there are any more than eight permanent beds that have been secretly closed under their administration? Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, it is interesting that the member has to go back to November 1. On November 1, St. Bonif ace General Hosp ital closed eight medical beds and November 2 opened 10 beds, medical beds, to of fset the closure.

I might add further, according to the advice that has just come to me, the issue we are facing in this province is the fact that for the first time in years the government of Manitoba has of fered the opportunity of opening beds, a new concept fo r members opposi te: opening beds. Today in Manitoba hospitals we have 25 more beds open, 25 less people in the hallways than we did yesterday and the day before, and tomorrow will be the same.

We will continue to do that; we will continue to work towards the spring because we said we would have a short term and a long-term plan to fulfill our election promise, something members opposite never

402 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 8, 19 99 recognized at all in this province. We have a plan and we are taking action. * (1355 ) St. Boniface Hospital Bed Closures Mr. Darren Praznik (Lac du Bonnet): Mr. Speaker, I would like to pick up on a comment as part of the answer that the Minister of Health raised. The Minister of Health, in answer to the last question, very proudly told this House that the St. Bonif ace closed eight beds on one day and opened 10 the next.

Would he not confirm today that those 10 beds were already scheduled to open, were part of the regular plan, and that the argument he gave was crafted by his own spin doctors and is an excuse fo r closing those eight beds in St. Bonif ace? Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, on November 1 we were informed from St. Bonif ace Hos pital: November 1, St. Bonif ace Hos pital had closed eight medical beds on 5B, a medical unit, because it is unable to provide adequate nursing staff as indicated and which the press came to my attention and St. Bonif ace Hosp ital responded to.

I am also advised that on November 2, St. Bonif ace Hospital opened 10 beds on E5 as medical beds to of fset the closure of beds on 5B. Whether or not members want to play politics with it, it is fine with me. If they want to-- Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, today in Manitoba there are 25 additional beds open as a result of a plan that we announced on November 22, within six weeks after assuming office. There will be more beds tomor row, something that is fo reign to members opposite.

I want to also add that not only did we promise on November 22 that we would make available these beds, we also put in place a plan to put additional money into Home Care, additional money fo r the home I.V . program , physician managers, which members opposite talked about but did not fund; geriatric case managers, which the members opposite talked about and did not fund; as well as putting in place a fast-track emergency system to deal with the hosp ital bed situation. Mr.

Speaker, I think that the public of Manitoba can have confidence that there is a plan in place fo r the first time in years announced by a government in order to deal with this situation. Mr. Praznik: Mr. Speaker, a very simple question that the minister has totally avoided: will he not confirm today that the 1 0 beds that were opened at St. Bonif ace were scheduled to open, were supposed to open, and that he and St.

Bonif ace were caught by surprise in having to close the eight beds and that they spun this out just as an excuse, rather than admitting that they had to close eight beds because they could not staff them? Those 1 0 beds were supposed to open. Tell us the truth, Mr. Minister. Mr. Cbomiak: Mr. Speaker, over 1, 400 acute care beds were closed in this province under the regime that that member was a minister of. Over 1 ,000 nurses were laid of f. When we were elected on September 21, we said we would put in place a plan to deal with hallway medicine. We announced it on November 22.

We said we would give the resources and the authority to the hospitals to open beds. They are proceeding in that proce ss. I noticed they are jumping of f that track now, Mr. Speaker, but the fact is we did that fo r the people who are lying in the hallways who are the ones we care about, who are the ones we want to deliver the programs fo r, and we will continue to work on behalf of Manitobans in that regard. * (1 400) Health Care System Bed Openings Mr. Darren Praznik (Lac du Bonnet): Mr. Speaker, the minister still refuses to answer the question fo r the people of Manitoba about those 10 beds.

I ask him again, as I did yesterday, in the interests of cl arity: will he commit to provide

December 8, 19 99 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 403 to this House, as early as today, a list of the beds he says are to be opened, their room numbers, in what hospitals, their des ignations, or does he not know? Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, I am advised that fo ur beds have been opened at Concordia, eight at Deer Lodge, six at Grace, two at St. Bonif ace, three at HSC, two at Victoria, fo r a total of 25.

We are going to continue to open more beds as we go along because we have made fo r the first time, ahead of any kind of key crisis, ahead of the December season, and I ask the member opposite if he will explain to me why they announced 60 swing beds in the spring and did not fund them, why there is no funding fo r programs they announced. We recognized the problem, we funded it, and we took action. Urban Shared Services Corporation Specialty Diets Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, my question is fo r the Minister of Health.

I know the minister has given the impression that there were so many problems with the Tory frozen fo od system that if they were laid out they would stretch from here to Vancouver, but I would like to fo cus on one issue. One of the important aspects of hospital fo od is the need to have very specific and very different diets fo r different medical conditions. A patient with kidney disease needs a different diet from one with heart disease or phenylketonuria or diabetes and so on.

Did the Tory frozen fo od system meet the standard of being able to provide such individualized dietary needs, which are so essential to a hospital environment? Have you commissioned a report to assess it, or is this what the Auditor is doing? Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, I thank the member fo r that question because it indicates an analysis and an insight that was not undertaken by members on the previous government. That, in fact, is one of the more difficult issues that is actually being examined as we go along now.

Preliminary advice that has come to me indicates that one of the difficulties, one of the severe difficulties when ruling out this frozen fo od concept at the major hospitals is that 25 to 30 percent of the meals are specialty diets-as referred to by the member fo r River Heights-that will have to be individually trayed, individually dealt with, that cannot be dealt with by a mass produced process.

That is one of the ma jor difficulties in this entire operation, which is one of the reasons fo r the pause and for our taking another look at the rollout that was promised by members opposite with respect to HSC and St. Bonif ace Hospital. Mortgage Value Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): My supplementary to the Minister of Health. Before purchasing the mortgage, was the value of this underperforrning asset, this white elephant, carefully assessed before the decision was made to purchase the security on it, or is that what the Provincial Auditor is doing in his evaluation? Hon.

Dave Chomiak (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, as I understand it, the Provincial Auditor is examining all of the intricacies with respect to the financial nature of that particular operation, all of the uncertain projections, all of the financial accounting, the tendering process, all of the related matters that, frankly, in my view, were related to a deal that I think, certainly from my viewpoint, was not a very well negotiated deal. But with respect to the question as of fered by the member, we did a thorough analysis. We did a very thorough analysis.

The Department of Finance did an analysis with respect to the value of the asset and the like, negotiated it very thoroughly-and utilized due diligence to that and were informed that, in fact, ended up purchasing it at a saving rather than at the market value. Mr. Gerrard: My supplementary. Given your comment about the analysis, I would hope that you would table that in due course. Was the decision, and why was the decision made, to spend $24.5 million? The Premier has said that it is not a simple matter to spend $11

404 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 8, 19 99 million. Why was that decision made before there was the analysis from the Provincial Auditor? Mr. Chomiak: Two points in that regard, Mr. Speaker. As I indicated to the member yester day, we were in debt. We were on the hook fo r this money regardless of what happened, because the deal was between centres that are 1 00 percent financed by the Province of Manitoba. Their debt and their structure was on the line. So we had owned that anyway, and it would have been a burden to the province regardless of whether we bought the mortgage or not.

With regard to the specific question, one of the first things upon assuming of fice that we did is we said: Now let us make the contract public. Do you know what? We could not get permission. We could not get permission fo r a $26-million contract to make it public, with public money, because of the deal that was entered into by members opposite, and that is a disgrace. That is an absol ute disgrace. Health Care System Hallway Medicine Reduction Mr. Eric Stefanson (Kirkfield Park): Mr.

Speaker, on a weekly basis the Minister of Health receives a report dealing with health system indicators, and in that report there is a

section that deals with Winnipeg hospitals where there is admitted patients in the hallways. We all have agreed that having people in the hallways in our hospitals is something that is unacceptable. In the month of September, the first week of September, the average number of people in Winnipeg were five across all Winnipeg hospitals. The second week the average was three; the third week the average was fo ur people across all Winnipeg hospitals in hallways.

Today in the Winnipeg hospitals, as of today, there are 27 people in our hospit al hallways, a five-fold increase over what was occurring just a few months ago in the month of September. I want to ask the Minister of Health: will he acknowledge today that he is not fulfilling his hollow promise to end hallway medicine, just like he has not fulfilled his promise to open a hundred net new hospital beds? Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, I can indicate to the member opposite that the information that is provided to me today in fact has the number today at 13, firstly.

Secondly, in looking at comparisons fo r the week preceding this last year, last year at this time there were 30 people in the hallways. Health Care System Information Tabling Request Mr. Eric Stefanson (Kirkfield Park): Well, Mr.

Speaker, if the Minister of Health is so confid ent with the progress he is making, even though we have seen evidence where he has not fulfilled various promises like the hundred new beds being opened, would he start to table the same weekly report that he receives to all members of this House and to all Manitobans so we can judge on a weekly basis just how he is performing in fulfilling those promises? Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, two points I would like to indicate to the member opposite: firstly, that in fact we are undertaking to do that and will be doing that on a regular basis.

Something, I might add, members opposite refused to do on a regular basis. We are in fact in the process of making those arrangements because we want people to have knowledge and ideas as to what is happening in the hallways, because not only did we think it would help enlighten Manitobans as to the situation but I think it would inform all Manitobans as to what the situation is, and we are going to do it, rather than the previous government that refused to do it. Mr.

Stefanson: The Minister of Health is wrong, and obviously his memory is failing him because he knows we released a quarterly report just a few months ago , outlining all of this information about waiting lists in a whole range of areas. So I want to ask this minister: will he carry on with that tradition of doing quarterly health reports, and when is he going to start releasing the weekly reports? Give us a date. When is he going to start releasing them so we can all hold him accountab le fo r the promises

December 8, 19 99 LEGISLA TIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 405 that he made that he is not fulfilling to Manitobans? Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, just over 60 days ago, the previous government was refusing to make those reports public. Secondly, I have already undertaken the process to have those reports released on a regular basis. You know, fo r members opposite who did not do much fo r 11 years, it sort of strikes me as passing strange that now the member is asking for everything to take place today. But I have already started the process. Those reports will be made public on a regular basis.

I thank the member fo r that question because we are doing what the previous government ref used to do. Mr. Speaker: The honoura ble member fo r St. Norbert, with a very short question. * (1410 ) Health Care System Hallway Medicine Reduction Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (St. Norbert): Mr. Speaker, my question, of course, is going to be to the honourable Minister of Health because the information that he is bringing fo rward today is not accurate.

We had, this morning, an inspection of the hospitals, and at the Grace we had nine people in the hallways; Concordia, six people in beds, two in wheelchairs; the Victoria, eight people in beds. Those are the actual numbers. We were there to do the physical count. Can this minister confirm these numbers? Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, I do not know if the member is aware, but there was a process that was put in place by the previous government where every single day a bed count was taken and a weekly report was prepared.

That practice has continued unchanged under this regime, although we are going to be making those reports public. But I want to indicate to you, Mr. Speaker, that one of the difficulties that I think was being dealt with is one of the reasons that we are reviewing and asking them to make sure that we get accurate results is there are variances as you go through the day and different situations, different circumstances, whether one is actually waiting to be admitted, whether one is actually waiting fo r a bed, whether one is actually waiting for ER service.

But the information that is provided to me, which was the same information that went to the government on a regular basis, is that as of today there are 13 admitted patients in the hallway waiting fo r admission. Mr. Speaker: Time fo r Oral Questions has expired. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Misericordia Care Tree Campaign Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin-Roblin): Mr. Speaker, this morning I had the privilege of joining a number of volunteers and board members at the Misericordia Health Centre to take part and represent this government in the 19 99 Misericordia Care Tree campaign.

It is not too often that somebody from this House gets to don a pair of angel wings and a halo, so I thought I would take that opportunity and help out a good cause. I want to begin by thanking Mr. Don Browne ll, who is the chair of the fo undation, and a number of other board members, staff and volunteers who braved the weather this morning, which, compared to other years, they tell me, was not too bad, and actually helped in giving out cof fee, hot chocolate and a newspaper from the Free Press- Tim Horton's cof fee to everyone who gave a donation of at least $10 .

The Care Tree Campaign consists of three parts that the health centre is doing. There is a hol iday card mailing; there is the Angel Squad, which I took

part in this morning, and the tree of Angels. There are two reasons why they are doing this campaign. One is to raise a little bit of money fo r the fo undation, but more importantly, I am told that they are going to try to raise awareness of the Misericordia Health Centre and the services that the health centre provides fo r people across the province. I want to encourage members here and members of the public to get involved in this worthwhile campaign. Yesterday morning the Angel Squad

406 LEGISL ATIVE ASS EMBLY OF MANITOBA December 8, 19 99 met, was out on Maryland. They were there this morning, and tomorrow morning between 7:30 and 9 the angels will be back on Maryland coll ecting the dona tions and handing out the goodies, so I enco urage everyone here to participate. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Education System-Enrollment Mrs. Joy Smith (Fort Garry): Mr. Speaker, I feel the issue of declining school enrollment is a pressing issue today, particularly the fact that this could lead to clo sure of schools here in Winnipeg and across Manitoba.

The Winnipeg Free Press recently reported that numerous school boards are looking fo r ways to cope with declining enrollments. Today's NDP has to develop concrete plans, and the effect of the implementation of these plans needs to be understood prior to any shifts. The people of Manitoba want to know where their children will be learning and will this shifting affect the current government's Grade 3 guarantee. This concern puts added pressure on school boards and parents throughout Manitoba.

Parents in Assiniboine Sou th are anticipating bad news as they wait for a list of schools that could be closed within the next two years. Currently, the Fort Garry School Board is holding community meetings and asking the community and parents of enrolled children fo r possible solutions. Parents and residents are meeting in gymnasiums across Manitoba to lo ok fo r ways to boost the schools' enrollments. I would like to congratulate school boards that have taken the issue to the community, to those who are most affected by school clo sures, in search of possible alternatives and solutio ns. Thank you.

Personal Care Home Construction Mr. Jim Rondeau (Assiniboia): Mr. Speaker, I rise today to bring the attention of my honourable col leagues to the January 4, 19 99, commentary from the Winnipeg Sun. As so clearly stated in that column, Manitoba health care planners can only be thinking about one thing as they grapple with the most recent emergency room crunch. Why did the Filmon government not proceed with plans in 19 95 to open hundreds of new nursing beds?

The Tories promised voters during the 19 95 provincial election to spend some $600 million on capital health care projects, including several hundred new personal care homes. Within months, the Filmon government scrapped the plan. Had the plan proceeded, there would have been some 200 to 300 more acute care beds available today, absorbing most of the influx of patients into hospitals. The main reason ERs are overcrowded today is because hospitals were fo rced to cut some 600 beds between 19 92 and 19 97 when their operating budgets were slashed by the province.

The result: patients with acute illnesses like heart attacks or kidney failures regularly wait days in draughty hallways, with no privacy, before getting a bed. * (14 20) During the 19 95 election year, the province increased hospital funding slightly, by only about $2 million, but during the next two years, hospital funding was chopped by almost $70 million, a cut of almost 8 percent, while costs were rising. It is not as if the Filmon govern ment had no money. The province socked away over $500 million in its rainy day fund over this period.

Manitoba is going to need more personal care homes than originally projected because the number of people in this province that are getting older is growing quickly, especially in Assiniboia. In closing, I ask my honourab le coll eagues to recognize the work and commitment of Minister Chomia k and the people in his department as they implement policies and measures to correct the penny-wise, pound fo olis h- Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honoura ble member's time has expired. Budget Consultations Mr.

Jim Penner (Steinbach): As members of this House know, the budget document is perhaps the most important piece of work a government creates on an annual basis. Its contents affect the lives of virtually every

December 8, 19 99 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 407 Manitoban.The previous government recognized this importance and, as part of its annual exercise of drafting the budget, held consul tation meetings with Manitobans well in advance of the budget so that their input could be reflected in the budget itself. In fact, in my own con stituency, we hosted a budget consultation meeting on November 18 , 19 98, over five months before the budget was announced. It appears that Today's NDP know better than average Manitobans when it comes to managing the financial affairs of this province.

We are now approximately three months away from this government's expected budget and not one meeting has been annou nced. Perhaps the government is limiting its input to those who could afford the $200-a -plate advice session it held recently, or is that Today's NDP's commit ment to reacting to average Manitoba ns?

If this government expects to bring down a March budget, we can only assume that at this date any consultation meetings to come are simply a weak public relations maneuver which will have no bearing on the actual budget or that Today's NDP believe preparing a budget is a last-minute activity like cramming the night before for a big exam. In just over 60 days, members opposite seem to have forgotten they were elected to represent all Manitoba ns. Manitobans expected more and were promised more from this Finance minister (Mr. Selinger) and from Today's NDP. First Nations-Unemployment Rate Hon.

Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, I want to address briefly a very serious concern in this province, and that is the concern of very high unemployment rates in our First Nations communities. This was highlighted in a story in the Free Press this morning. In the Cross Lake community, where the unemploy ment is exorbitantly high, there are huge problems with suicides and other social conditions. The previous government hid their heads in the sand. They continued to quote the numbers which suggested that the overall unemployment rate in Manitoba was around 5 percent.

A more accurate assessment would suggest that the rate of unemployment, if one really takes Manitoba as a whole, is much higher. This is a serious issue. The real number may be double that. The real number for unemployment in this province may be as high as 1 0 percent. I hope that we will see, under the new government, a move to look seriously at what this real number is, to measure it and report on it on a regular basis, because only when we can, in fact, look after the needs of all Manitobans, can we really make a difference for Manitoba as a whole. It is a very important issue.

It needs consid eration and it needs action. Point of Order Ms. Nancy Allan (St. Vital): I would like to bring to your attention, Mr. Speaker, that yesterday afternoon in the House, at 5:45 p.m., you left your Chair and asked the MLA for St. James (Ms. Korzeniowski) to sit in your Chair. I would like to bring to your attention a gender biased comment that was made by the MLA for Springfield (Mr. Schuler) that was substantiated in this House and is documented on page 394 in Hansard. The statement was: "You know, they always get prettier at closing time." I would just like to say, Mr.

Speaker, that I find these kinds of comments that are directed towards women in this House totally unnecessary, and I would like to request an apology from the MLA for Springfield. Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (Opposition House Leader): Mr.

Speaker, on the same point of order, I have just turned my book over to page 394, and I read that it says "An Honourable Member: You know, they always get prettier at closing time." This does not refer to any member in this House, and I take offence that this member would say that it is any one of my members when this statement clearly states that it says "An Honourable Member." So, Mr. Speaker, I do not believe she has got a point of order. Hon.

Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): Well, first of all, just to deal specifically with the issues raised by the Opposition House Leader, as I understand it from the statements of the member for St. Vital (Ms. Allan), it was a matter within her personal knowledge that the member for River East (Mrs.

408 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 8, 19 99 Mitchelson) was the person who uttered the statement that is at page 394- An Honourable Member: Get the facts straight there first. An Honourable Member: Springfield. Mr. Mackintosh: Springfield. Sorry, Mr. Speaker. The second point that I wanted to raise is that the statement is clearly gender motivated and is denigrating and harmful. I think it is important that we remind ourselves to be respectful of each other as honourable members. It is fo r that reason, I understand, that the issue was raised. I wonder, Mr.

Speaker, if you or the member fo r Springfield (Mr. Schuler) could provide some direction to the House as to how to get this matter dealt with and behind us. Mr. Denis Rocan (Carman): Mr. Speaker, on the same point of order, I hesitate greatly in rising. I do not want to use the word "debate." It is unfortunate the member fo r, I believe, St. Vital (Ms. Allan) wants to play, if you want, pol itical gamesmanship on this issue. I was present yesterday, Sir, in the Chamber when the remark was said. Granted, I do not know exactly where the comment came from.

Sir, fo r clarification, I will tell you that the comment was said by somebody, and I am uncertain at this time who it was, but I will now put on the record that the member fo r Wolseley (Ms. Friesen)- An Honourable Member: Burrows. Mr. Rocan: The member fo r Burrows (Mr. Martindale) cracked up. He said: Extremely well done. He said: That was put at the perfect right time. I have no idea exactly where it came from on this side, Sir, but I mean if we are going to call the pot black I think each and every one who participated somehow in that round of remarks would dearly have to pay the same price.

So fo r you to raise this and try to pinpoint somebody on my side, my party fo r this, when you-and he was very clear about it. I will tell you that he was so clear. That is one of the few things that I did hear. People know I have difficulty hearing, but this, I had no problem, and fo r you to stand there, this self-righteous place that you do stand, to pinpoint one of these members on my side because we are seen as Cons ervative-that we are, and proud of it-and to keep one of your members out of it, I have a great deal of hesitation in calling you an honourable member. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr.

Speaker: Order, please. I would like to thank all members-[interjection] Order, please. This is a very serious matter. I would like to thank all members fo r their contribution. I will take this under advisement, and I will return to the House. ORDERS OF THE DAY THRONE SPEECH DEBATE (Seventh Day of Debate) Mr. Speaker: Resuming debate on the proposed motion of the honourab le member fo r St. Vital (Ms. Allan), the amendment thereto proposed by the honourable Leader of the Official Opposition (Mr. Filmon), standing in the name of the honourable member fo r Arthur-Virden (Mr.

Maguire), who has 20 minutes. * (14 30) Mr. Larry Maguire (Arthur-Virden): Mr. Speaker, at the close of the session yesterday, we were talking about the situation of marketing grain in the prairie provinces and particularly here in Manitoba. I just had referred to the fact that the now president of the Canadian Wheat Board had acknowledged their own internal survey that had revealed that the majo rity of fam.ers did not want the monopoly marketing mechanism here in Manitoba.

To me this was an amazing recognition of the changes that are taking place in our economy today in Manitoba, particularly given the fact that the federal Liberals took away the Crow benefit in 19 95 on August 1 and fo rced farmers into diversifying.

December 8, 19 99 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 409 That is a problem as we move fo rward fo r the citizens of Arthur-Virden because we are in the highest freight area of Canada today and are fo rced to make those changes faster than perhaps any othe r region. We are in the process of doing that, as I have pointed out, but having had the severe weather that has undergone our area this year, that tie to capital has been severed, and I tried to make that point earlier. Because of these issues and because of hopef ully a shor t-term problem, we need to develop safety nets that wo rk.

As I mentioned earlier, AIDA does not wo rk. The farming community requires a long term, dependable safety-net prog ram that is predictable and effective, and of cour se the Net Income Stabilization Account, or NISA as we know is more infor mally known, needs to be revamped and include all farmers. We also require a revamped crop insurance program. The crop yields fo r 19 99 from the disaster areas should not be included in our 19 99 IPI fo r the long-term yield base fo r the farmers in those disaster-tom regions. Point of Order Mr.

Ron Schuler (Springfield): There was a point of or der brought up earlier that a statement was made in this House. Mr. Speaker, I would like to say that it was myself. It was meant as a compliment, and I believe it was taken as a compliment. However , if it did of fend some peopl e, I wish to apologize, and I know that the individual sitting in the Chair at that time was smiling from ear to ear. It was meant as a compliment, and certainly I wish to put that on recor d. Thank you. Mr. Speaker: I thank the honou rable member fo r withdrawing the statement, and that has dealt with the matter that was raised. *** Mr.

Maguire: Mr. Speaker, as well, I believe that the federal Liberals have fo rgotten Manitoba farmers. This Manitoba government must realize that farming is the third largest driver of the economy in Manitoba. As I have said, that long term plan should be to eliminate subsidies, but until that happens the shor t-term suppor t is needed, and that may come in direct cash fo rms to farmers and to other small businesses or in suppo rt of new-gene ration-styl e proj ects like the Prairie Pasta Produce rs plant that was proposed fo r Melita in our region at one time.

We need more value-added ventures in our farming industry fo r a stronger future in our farms and rural communities. Our present marketing structure cost our constituency an investment in processing lo cal grain of over $1 00 million. While that impacts our constituency most negatively, it is a sign that it is an income or an investment that was taken away from the whole province of Manitoba. We had an oppor tunity to advance and provide the oppor tunity to fo rgo the freight rates fo r moving our product out that our farmers are being faced with today.

While we all know that that suppor t is also needed in our health care and education systems, most realize that this is onl y part of the equation. Sound management of the budget, including no deficits, is what our citizens have become accustomed to and is what all parties had as part of their election platfo rms fo r a brighter future in Manitoba. Mr.

Conrad Santos, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair Think about what we could do fo r our youth and those in need of medical care if we could direct that $480 million that we are spending today on interest on the provincial debt towards their needs, not to mention security of our communities, highways and culture and heritage. I would like at this time to mention that I know constituents in my region have been talking with the honou rable Minister of Justice (Mr.

Mackintosh) regarding issues around the policing and RCMP loca tions in some of the communities that we are very shor t in at the present time and dealing with the issue of mat leave in some of those towns, particularly in the community of Melita at this point. I urge the provincial government to augment this throne speech with a strong budget commitment towards returning tax do llars to citizens as our Manitoba economy continues to grow as it has. Oh, sure, we could fo rgo tax cuts and widen that predicted tax gap. Mr. Deputy Speaker, within the last few weeks, Mr.

410 LEGISL ATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 8, 19 99 Stockwe ll Day, the Alber ta Treasurer, suggested publicly that at some time in the next 10 years Alberta might be able to eliminate personal income tax, as has already been done in at least six of the U.S. states today. This government must develop a long-term plan to compete with such ingenuity so we may maintain and build our children's future here in Manitoba. I will reiterate what my collea gue the member fo r Turtle Mountain (Mr.

Tweed) had to say in this House recently: it appears that the NDP are on a serious diet when it comes to putting fo rth new ideas. Indeed the diet this government is of f ering Manitobans is most unpalatable. The thin gruel of ideas served up in the throne speech is already leaving Manitobans looking around the table for seconds. Managing the province's finances requires a deft hand and a sound menu plan. This sound menu plan was laid fo rth year after year by the previous Cons ervative administration. The cupboard was well stocked with sound ideas and proven recipes fo r managing the province.

The present government need only fo llow these tried and true recipes like bread dough rising and, like bread dough rising, the Manitoba economy will continue to grow and prosper. The dearth of ideas put fo rth by the NDP in their throne speech would unfortuna tely suggest Manitobans would be placed on a starvation diet. I do not believe that this is what they ordered when they looked at the menu. I appreciate that we had the emergency debate on the status of Manitoba agriculture.

I only hope that the ideas brought fo rth in this important debate are given serious consideration by this government, a more serious consid eration than the throne speech gave to the many issues facing rural Manitoba. Another matter that is of paramount concern to Manitobans is the preservation of our environment. As the Environment critic, I hope to bring fo rward a number of concerns about how our resources will be managed in this province.

Particularly worrisome to me is the fact that today's government does not seem to realize the inherent conflict of interest that now exists with the merger of the Department of Environment and the Department of Natural Resources. The Minister of Conser vation (Mr. Lathlin) is the advocate and the judge fo r both conflicting departments. I fo recast heavy rains on the horizon, thanks to this decision. Manitoba's economy has shown one of the best growth rates in Canada in recent years, with a low rate of unemployment and increased levels of diversification.

The previous administration was committed to the principle of sustainable development, where development meets the needs of the present without compromising the ability of future generations. Manitoba's current economic growth can be maintained if the province continues to employ the practice of sustainable development. The previous administration undertook the Manitoba Round Table on Environment and Economy. and subsequently established the Sustainable Development Co-or dination Unit to ensure the proper application of sustainable develop ment practices here in the province of Manitoba.

The Sustainable Development Co-or dination Unit has worked toward the implementation of progr essive programs such as sustainable develo pment round tables and Capital Region initiatives. These actions are ensuring the continued success of Manitoba's economy and helping to manage the province's resources fo r future generations.

I would strongly encourage the current minister to maintain and build upon the sustain able development initiatives of the previous government and be mindful that attention must be paid to the long-term consequences of the environment and economic decisions you are planning to make. * (1 440) Speaking briefly to economic issues, Manitobans should seriously consider how a budget deficit would affect the province's credit rating, its ability to attract business investment and to enhance employment opportun ities. During the election campaign, the NDP committed to uphold the balanced budget law.

To simply cry fo ul and run a deficit would result in the NDP's first major broken promise, only mere weeks into their term.

December 8, 19 99 LEGISLA TIVE ASSE MBLY OF MANITOBA 41 1 Mr. Deputy Speaker, I may be a farmer, but I am not prepared to clea n up the messes made by the Chicken Little financial managers across the way. The NDP should not even consider raising taxes or postponing tax cuts. We already pay a high percentage of our income in taxes. Manitoba cannot afford to fall behind the other provinces, as I pointed out earlier, in the race fo r lower taxation. A few days ago , it was announced that the province has retained its credit rating from the Moody's Investors Services of New York.

The retention of this credit rating is in no small part due-it is a pleasure to see that the honoura ble members opposite realize that the previous government's efforts to restore positive financial perfonnance and to diversifY the provincial economy fo llowing the years of neglect at the hands of the previous NDP administration that increased Manitoba' s debt threefold to over $5 billion from 19 83 to 19 88. Manitobans overall are feeling particularly buoyant about our economy today.

Repeated balanced budgets and sound fiscal management, sound fiscal policies practised by the fo nner administration have paved the way fo r record growth . The previous administration exercised a well-managed plan to make sure Manitoba' s economic platfonn was moving along, sailing smoothly. We have clear evidence of how well that plan works. We need only look at Manitoba's diversified economy and at that low unemployment rate that I mentioned earlier.

Consecutive surplus budgets, no major tax increases and a plan to pay of f Manitoba's accumulated debt all serve to send a message that Manitoba was open fo r business. Let us hope that Today's NDP will continue with the fine fiscal plans charted by the previous administration. Perish the thought that yester day's NDP, well known fo r the fact that it had no directional purpose, should seize contro l of the wheel and wreck Manitoba's current buoyant economic highway through fiscal mis management.

In clos ing, I want to reiterate my thanks to constituents, to campaign workers, and to my family fo r their support in making this possible fo r me to be a part of this Legislature. Every MLA needs the support of his or her partner and family. Over the past 20 years, my family has grown to expect me to strive for a brighter future and have supported me extensively. To my wife, Beryl, a physiotherapist, and to our son Tim, who is flying in Matheson Isla nd, and our wonderf ul daughter-in-la w Barbara, who have provided us with two wonderful grandsons and a third one on the way next June.

I take my hat of f to my daughter, Laura, because of the hours that I have no t been able to spend with my family over these years, Mr. Deputy Speaker, but it is their understanding for that sacrifice of time with them that has driven me to be allowed to of fer my services on behalf of the constituents of Arthur-Virden to try to balance our future and make it better here in Manitoba. For every ending, there is a new beginning. About a year ago, last October 23, my father had an accident that turned out to be eventually fatal.

At least he got to see and hold our second grandson who was born just two weeks prior to that particular time. To my family, to my mother and father, I also owe that gratitude of support over the years. I only hope that I can continue to work hard and meet their expectations and those of my fellow constituents in Arthur- Virden as we move fo rward to provide more opportunities in the fine province of Manitoba and continue to develop opportun ities in a hard-stricken constituency at this particular point that has many other opportunities, that of Arthur-Virden. Thank you very much. Hon.

Drew Caldwell (Minister of Education and Training): Mr. Deputy Speaker, it is indeed an honour to rise in this historic legislative Chamber fo r my inaugural speech. I feel very privileged and feel very humble to be in this august Chamber where so much history in our province has taken place. I think from the outset, I would like to thank my family, friends, members of my party in Brandon East, supporters in Brandon East, the people of Brandon East generally, fo r seeing fit to send me to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba in the provincial election of September 21. I should also recognize and congratulate Mr.

George Hickes fo r being elected Speaker in

412 LEGISL ATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 8, 19 99 the historic election that we had earlier in this session, and yourself , Mr. Deputy Speaker, fo r becoming Deputy Speaker. I know that it is a very large privilege and an honour to have that position bestowed upon you by your collea gues in this Chamber. I know both of you personal ly, and I know you as men of integrity and men who will do excellent work fo r this particular Assembly. Also, although Mr. Remnant is not here right now, this is Mr.

Binx Remnant's last session, and I wish him well as he retires from many years of dedicated service to this Assembly. Also, I would like to thank at the outset the Sergeant-a t-Arms, the legislative clerks, the interns and the staff of this Legislative Building for the fine work they do on behalf of the people of Manitoba day in and day out. I know in the last month or so since I have been a cabinet minister, I have gained a very keen appreciation about how hardworking the civil servants are of our province and what good work they do on behalf of the people of Manitoba.

I want to acknowledge that and recognize their hard work. Before I finish, I would also like to thank my coll eague Scott Smith from Brandon West. Brandon went entirely New Democrat this particular election, and I know that we will work very, very hard to ensure that Brandon continues the fine record of representation it has had over the last, well, 30 years, since 19 69 when my predecessor, Len Evans, was first elected. I know that Mr. Smith will translate that hard work into a long term of service in Brandon West, as well.

I very much appreciate having a collea gue that is just across 18 th Street from me in Brandon. Mr. Deputy Speaker, in the September 21 provincial election, it marked the ninth consecutive victory since 19 69 fo r the New Democratic Party in Brandon East. That con stituency, Brandon East, has been held by the New Democrats since the constituency was fo rmed in 19 69, and we achieved in September 61 percent of the vote, which was our best performance ever.

I also wanted to note that the margin of difference between ourselves and the Conservatives has risen steadily from 1, 540 votes in 19 90 to 1, 787 votes in 19 95 to 2, 7 60 votes in the 19 99 election. It is a real credit to the supporters of Len Evans and now myself in Brandon East that we have been able to increase that margin of dif ference substantially in every successive election campaign. The large number of people who helped in the election and the very large task that they took on in seeing that Brandon East remained a New Democratic seat is something that filled me with a great sense of humility.

I gained a true appreciation of truly how little the candidate matters and truly how much the team matters in election campaigns. * (1 450) Mr. Deputy Speaker, I want to talk a little bit, as is the tradition in these inaugural addresses, about my family history. In Manitoba, my namesake my great-grandf ather Andrew and his fclmily came to the province at the tum of the last century. They settled in what was then the Prairie Rose School District, the area around Pipestone, Reston, in southwestern Manitoba. My great-grandf ather Andrew and his wife had a large family.

Caldwells now are scattered throughout southwestern Manitoba, and I feel truly humbled to be able to be in this Chamber, the first one of my family to be elected to such office. I know that I feel very proud in that regard. Also, I should acknowledge my mother's family, the Rands family and the Wright family from Portage Ia Prairie, the Lavenham area. So my roots really come across all of southern Manitoba now, Mr. Deputy Speaker, the Caldwells in western Manitoba, the Rands and Wrights in Portage Ia Prairie and area.

I am going to recognize a relative Val Eros who is in the gallery today and has been watching me stumble through this inaugural address. [interjection] Some of my col leagues will pick me up if I stumble too much. My own experience, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I was born in 19 60 in Brandon, coming through the 19 60s and early '70s as a child gaining an awareness, I recall, of the importance of political action, particularly as it took place in the country to the south of us in regard to the antiwar

December 8, 19 99 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 413 movement and the freedom of speech move ment. The campus activity that took place in the United States during the 19 60s and 19 70s, I recall making an impact on me as a young boy watching television, particularly the antiwar movement. My father, Boyd Caldwell, who passed away a decade ago , was a great fo rmative influence on me in terms of my sense of political activism. He was a World War II vet who lied about his age to join the army to go over to Europe during World War II. While in Europe, he was a dispatch driver in the Canadian Armed Fo rces.

He subsequently spent a number of years in Ninette Hospital. His war experience did not end until many years after the Second World War ended. He lost a lung to tuber culosis as a result of his experience in the Second World War. When I was a boy, he instilled a very strong value in me to pay attention to politics. His experiences as a young man taught him that there are going to be those who govern, and government can be used to either purposes of good or evil.

There is going to be somebody or some party that does govern, and he instilled in me the awareness to pay close attention to that fact and take an active role in ensuring that those who govern are doing it fo r purposes of good and not evil.

I think his experience during the war was very prof ound in his awareness of that, and, certainly, I recall many, many times with my father and my brothers watching various pol itical conventions or watching various election campaigns on television and listening on the radio and watching in the print media for results of campaigns and conventions and always getting a sense that this was important activity that we were witnessing. That stayed with me to this day, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that early awareness of politics that was instilled in me by my father back in the 19 60s and 19 70s. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, as I got a bit older in college, particularly in university-in the early 19 80s, late 19 70s, I was a member of the Brandon University Students Union in Brandon where I was doing my undergraduate degree, and I became very politically active at that time. In fact, 19 79- 19 80 marked the first time I acquired a New Democratic Party card and at that time as a student activist was made aware of education policy fo r the first time under the fo rmer administration of Sterling Lyon.

I was very pol iticized during that period of my life with regard to education policies and how it affected the university campus in Brandon, the Brandon University campus. I recall being very active in lobbying fo r enhanced library facilities at the Brandon University campus and in mobilizing students to work very hard fo r the Howard Pawley victory that flowed out of the Sterling Lyon years; also during that time period at Brandon University, upon the defeat of the Sterling Lyon government and the election of the Pawley government, being involved with Mr. Stanley Knowles and Mr.

Tommy Douglas, two distinguished alumni of Brandon University, to create a student union building at Brandon University. I felt very privileged to be able to spend long hours with both Mr. Douglas and Mr. Knowles to get their support as patrons fo r the development of a student union building at Brandon University. Indeed, I think it was about 19 82, we at the students union were able to get Mr. Knowles and Mr. Douglas to agree to have the student union building at Brandon University named in their honour.

I am still very proud of , as I visit the Brandon University campus which is about two blocks from where I live, three blocks from where I live in Brandon, the Knowles-Douglas Student Union Centre which is a legacy to those days and to the memory of both Mr. Knowles and Mr. Douglas at Brandon University. I would be remiss at this time if I did not talk about another influence on me, Mr. Deputy Speaker, in terms of my politics, and that is Len Evans, my predecessor in Brandon East, and his wife Alice Evans. For 30 years Len Evans represented the people of Brandon East with diligence and integrity.

He has been a mentor to me, a friend, a confi dant and someone that I will continue to work to the best of my abilities according to the example that Len Evans set in our community, and that is a record of strong and diligent work on behalf of all members of the community. All of us in Brandon East owe a tremendous debt of thanks to Len Evans and his legacy in Brandon East, and, indeed, his legacy

414 LEGISLATIVE ASSE MBLY OF MANITOBA December 8, 19 99 in the province of Manitoba will live far into the future. Mr. Deputy Speaker, the constituency that elected Len Evans eight consecutive times, the constituency of Brandon East, has many notable features. My collea gue Scott Smith from Brandon West spoke earlier about the charac teristics of his particular constituency, and I think I should take a few moments of time to talk about the notable features in the Brandon East constituency. There are many communities in Brandon East, the north end of Brandon which is the area north of the CPR rail line.

It is a highly ethnic area. Over the course of the last century. it has been an area that many of our immigrant community in Brandon began in. The roots of our immigrant community in Brandon are very strong in the north end. It is a very colo urful area with eastern Orthodox churches throughout. We see onion-dome churches in the neighbour hoods of the north end. It is a unique part of the city of Brandon of humble homes and strong, strong cultural roots. * (1 500) The east end of Brandon, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, the area east of I st Street in Brandon, east of I st Street and north of Park A venue, again a strongly working-class neighbourhood of , again, humble homes, hardworking families, a significant ethnic population, as well, but with a very, very strong sense of community and a strong sense of culture and self-identity; the south end of the city of Brandon, the area south of Victoria A venue, east of 18 th Street, where a lot of our historically Engl ish working-class popula tion the city of Brandon came from.

Green Acres, a newer post- 19 60s residential community that is south and east of I st Street and Park A venue, an area of bungalows, again, modest homes but with a very strong sense of identity. My own fo rmer constituency when I was a city councillor in Brandon, Mr. Deputy Speaker, the Rosser ward, the downtown Rosser ward, is really the historic heart of the city of Brandon with Victorian homes, Edwardian homes, a very strong sense of identity to this particular day.

We also have in Brandon East constituency the city of Brandon's industrial park, Simplot fertilizer company, Maple Leaf Foods, a wide variety of industry, really the heart of Brandon's industrial economy. In Brandon East also, the Keystone Centre, the provincial exhibition of Manitoba, the Royal Manitoba Winter Fair, all these events take place on the Keystone grounds which is the area south of Park A venue and east of 18 th Street and north of Richmond A venue. The Royal Manitoba Winter Fair event is second to none in the province, indeed second to none in western Canada.

Brandon East is also a home to a great many seniors in our community, and most of the seniors' homes in Brandon, the senior citizens' homes are in Brandon East. The seniors population in Brandon has been one that has been particularly kind to me. I have worked very hard on their behalf as a city counc illor during the seven years that I was a Brandon city counc illor in a previous political life, Mr. Deputy Speaker, and I certainly appreciate the great wisdom and knowledge that the seniors have shared with me over the years in a great many areas.

I should also point out that Assiniboine Community Col lege is a central part of the Brandon East constituency, as is the fo rmer Brandon Mental Health Centre, an area that we are looking, in this House and in the city of Brandon, to develop into the future. I should, Mr. Deputy Speaker, talk about one more thing before I move along to the throne speech proper. That is to pay tribute to our current Premier, Mr. Gary Doer, and all the hardwork ing people that surrounded the Premier in this election campaign. I know he has worked very hard in this House, over a decade of hard work in this particular House.

I know that the people that have worked with the Premier over the last decade have worked very hard to see the result that took place on September 21 in this province. I feel very honoured to have gained his confidence to be appointed Minister of Education and very humbled by that appoint-

December 8, 19 99 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 415 ment. Certainly, I did not expect such an appointment from the Premier, but I was very, very honoured and privileged to receive that appointment. I would like to thank him fo r that. Mr. Deputy Speaker, the point of this particular exercise is to talk about the throne speech. I think I have got my copy of the throne speech in front of me here, and I am just going to go through it briefly in terms of making some comments on the document. First and fo remost, I think that this speech was truly a people's speech.

The people of Manitoba gave this government a clear mandate in the September 21 election. They expect improvements in our health care system. They expect our young people to be prepared fo r the challenges and opportunities of a new economy. They expect security in our homes and our workplaces and our community, and they have placed confidence and placed their faith in this government to fill those expectations. Mr. Deputy Speaker, a new century is about to begin, and this new century will bring with it a great many new challenges.

We have the advent of global trade and global competition opening up new opport unities fo r trade and wealth creation in our province as well as raising threats to the environment. In my own community, the great benefits of the Maple Leaf Foods facility, the Maple Leaf hog processing facility in Brandon which is something that I worked very hard to bring to our community as a city councillor, also brings with it a great many challenges fo r the environ ment and fo r the people who live downstream on the Assiniboine River.

We have some real challenges in making certain that we balance economic growth with sound stewardship of our environment, so that future generations in our province are able to share in the wealth that we are able to create today and not have a liability into the future. The constraints that econ omic development or the challenges that economic development bring with it are something that we, on this side of the House, are very conscious of and something that we take very seriously.

I know that throughout this terril and our future terms in of fice, it will be a challenge fo r us to maintain a good sense of balance in balancing economic development with environmental stewardship. I think it is also important right now to talk about our commitment to work with First Nations people in our province. The Gary Doer government has unprecedented diversity in it. We have the largest number of female MLAs ever to sit in government. We have in our caucus, in our cabinet, members of Inuit and First Nations communities. We have, Mr.

Deputy Speak·�r, yourself a member of the Filipino community and my collea gue Cris Aglugub, also, from The Maples, a member of the Filipino community. We have people in this government of Metis descent. We have Ukrainian-Dutch descent. We have the standard white, Anglo-S axon Protestants , we have Scots, we have Russians, we have French. It truly represents, I think, this government is truly a people's government. I am very, very proud and feel very privil·�ged that we have the diversity of Manitoba repn:sented on this side of the House with this government. Mr.

Depu�y Speaker, also, as someone from Manitoba's second city, Brandon, I also should acknowledge that as a representative from Brandon I am .also very, very happy to note that the throne speech recognized fo rmally our two major urban <:entres, Winnipeg and Brandon, and recognized the issues of core area renewal and revitalization and downtown commercial renewal in the city of Brandon. In my fo rmer political life I was the city counc illor fo r the Rosser ward in Brandon, the downtown ward of the city of Brando n.

I know that I, along with my constituents, neighbours and friends worked very, very hard over the last number of years to bring a recog nition of the need fo r conc entrated efforts in the downtown core, residential core particularly, of the city of Brandon and the great need fo r revitalization of the downtown core in the city of Brandon. Many of the problems faced by the city of Winnipeg are writ small in Brandon. The same challenges face us, the challenges of poverty, the challenges of substandard housing, the chal lenges that c:ome with the declining infra structure.

I was very, very pleased to see in the throne speech a commitment to undertaking

416 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 8, 19 99 some revitalization initiatives, not only in the city of Winnipeg but also in the city of Brandon. I know that my constituents particularly appreciate that commitment very, very much. * (15 10 ) As I look through the throne speech, I know that major issues of health care, I know that the Minister of Health (Mr. Chomia

k) is working very diligently and very hard to resolve many of the health care issues that are conf ronting this province today, issues of bloa ted bureaucracy, issues of lack of nurses, issues of bed clo sures and so fo rth. I know that in this government the people of Manitoba have a government that is committed to restoring health care excellence in the province of Manitoba.

I know that the Minister of Health knows perhaps better than anyone in our province, any single person in our province, the many, many challenges that lay before us as a government in resolving the great concern and great needs in health care fo r the province of Manitoba. In education, I know that it is something that my prof essional background as an educator is one that gave me a familiarity with some of the difficulties in education in this province before I came to this House.

Now, as Minister of Education, I have a keen appreciation, a very keen appreciation of the great deficits that exist in our public education system. Moreover, I have a great appreciation of the dedication of those many teachers, trustees, principals, superintendents, parents, the very stakeholders in our public education system. I have been singularly impressed at the dedication of those stakeholders in restoring our public education system.

I have had the opportunity to travel through a great percentage of this province over the last couple of months and met with hundreds of people in the public education domain. I am truly humbled by the comm itment of these individuals in restoring our public education system. Certainly I share that dedication with them as the minister and share the desire to enter into a consul tative process and a dialogue, an ongoing dialogue with those in our province who are truly concerned about restoring educational excellence to our province. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, I am also very, very pleased and very happy to be able to be the minister who is charged with guaranteeing stable and predictable funding in investments in our public school system. I know, in concert with the Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger), we have had a number of discussions on managing support to the public school system, particularly in light of the fiscal challenges that the government is faced with, based upon the recent Deloitte and Touche fiscal review.

We are committed to continuing to work with stake holders in the public education system to reinvest in our school system and provide ongoing assurances of stable investments in the public school system. Also, in terms of the public school domain, I had a couple of challenges right of f the hop upon assuming the ministry in terms of the Grade 3 testing that had taken place previously in the province of Manitoba, the end-of -year stan dardized assessment testing.

I had some opportun ities, before the decision was made, to stop that testing regime from taking place, and reinstituted diagnostic at the beginning of the year. I had the opportunity to discuss this with a number of people in the field.

I could not find, in my discussions with people in the field, anyone who could support the Grade 3 testing regime that took place at the end of the school year, and was very pleased upon making the announcement that a diagnostic procedure would be in place fo r September 2000 so that children could be assessed as to their literacy levels and a program of remediation be put into place in conjunction with the parent and the teacher to help that child grow in terms of literacy throughout the school year, that there is tremendous support fo rthcoming from the field fo r that initiative, and support that was based upon a real desire to help the child grow throughout the school year, and not to just, at the end of the year, have some sort of assessment made that did not really have any bearing on the child's ability to learn and to remediate his or her literacy skilJs throughout the school year.

So I was very gratified in that regard to have the degree of support that I did have fo rthcoming from the field.

December 8, 19 99 LEGISLA TIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 417 Another decision that was made very quickly upon assuming office was to end the Youth News Network's incursions into our public school system. The Youth News Network is something that has some potentials, but not at the expense of dedicating classroom time and curriculum time to a commercial network or to a commercial enterprise. I was very pleased in that regard to have had very, very positive support fo rthcoming from all levels of the field fo r that decision.

In terms of our post-sec ondary education system as well, this government is committed to restoring excellence. We have committed our selves to a very ambitious program of doubling the colle ge spaces in Manitoba over the next five years and to making post-seco ndary education more affordable and more accessible so that the hopes of our young people fo r a coll ege or university degree are based on ability, not on financial ability to pay but rather ability and effort to take

part in our post-se condary school system as young people and not just wealthy young people. I have had the opportunity to meet now with all post-secon dary stak eholders, the three community coll eges in the province of Manitoba as well as the fo ur universities in the province of Manitoba. The efforts of our government are widely recognized already by those in the post secondary system as being one of partnership and one of working to create excellence in the system and working with the stakeholders in the system.

I am very pleased that we are being so well received in the education field from both the public school system perspective as well as the post-secon dary perspective. There has been a lot of talk in the House in the last couple weeks, since this session began, about the deficit. I certainly appreciate and my coll eagues on this side of the House appreciate the need to be fiscally responsible and to have a commitment to the good management of the finances of the Province of Manitoba and to be good stewards of the finances of the Province of Manitoba. I know that we are committed to that good stewardship.

But there has not been that much talk about the social deficit that exists in our province. I want to talk for a few minutes, not too long, but just a few minutes, to recognize that the social deficit is even more important than the fiscal deficit of our province. We are a wealthy country, we are a wealthy province. I ha1ve had the opportunity to travel extensively in Third World countries, countries like India, Nepal, which have very low, low standards of living.

I am always ashamed when I see people in our wealthy Canada or our wealthy Manitoba living in conditions of squalor and living in conditions of poverty. There is no good reason for it, no good reason at all. * (1 520) In countrif:s that are impoverished, there is some recognition that the needs of the country are so great and so severe that some people may fall through the cracks, indeed many people in some count ries, Central American countries, Asian count ries, where poverty is very much a fact of life, where standards of living are very low, where the live expectancy is very low.

But in a province like Manitoba or a country like Canada, there is no good reason fo r it at all, and I am always ashamed fo r myself and fo r my society when I travel, whether it be in Winnipeg, Brandon or elsewhere in Canada, when I see conditions of poverty and degradation that people live under. I know that while it is important to maintain a good fiscal sense and a good sense of fiscal responsibility, there is no excuse fo r poverty in our society in Manitoba. There is no excuse fo r people living in conditions of squalor and substandard housing.

There is no excuse fo r having people dying fo r lack of health care. There is no excuse fo r not providing the quality of education that we can afford as a society. The only excuse is neglect, and that is not an excuse. So I think it is important fo r all of us in this House, while we talk about deficits, to bear in mind the fiscal responsi bilities that we have. I will not accept that we have that debate in a vacuum and we do not have the same awareness and the same concern fo r the social deficits of poverty, substandard housing, health care and the absence of quality education.

418 LEGISLATIVE ASS EMBLY OF MANITOBA December 8, 19 99 I am going to wind up my remarks here. I do not know how long I have spoken, but it seems to be enough. I really want to again recognize and thank my mother, Bea Caldwell, and my father, Boyd Caldwell, fo r raising me to care about the world that we live in and my more broadly extended family fo r supporting me through many years of my life and nurturing me and nurturing my awareness of my responsibil ity to this society.

It is something that I value very much, the support of my family, and it is something that I feel very grateful to have experienced throughout my life. I should also, while I am talking, it is going into the Hansard, I will recognize my brother and sister-in-law, Grant and Kelly, and their kids Stephanie and Kristie Jo, and my other brother and his wife, Craig and Laura, and their child to come. They have meant an awful lot to me as I have lived, and they certainly have been all the world to me. So thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, fo r your fo rbearance, and all the best. Point of Order Mr.

Doug Martindale (Burrows): I would like to be recognized on a point of order. I rise to apologize fo r my behaviour in the House yesterday. Another member made a sexist remark, which I believe he has apologized fo r today, and I would like to apologize fo r my response to that . It was inappropriate to laugh at that remark, and I apologize to all honourable members. Thank you. Mr. Deputy Speaker: I thank the honourable member fo r his comments. * * * Mr. Harold Gilleshammer (Minnedosa): would like to begin my remarks on the throne speech by congra tulating our new Speaker.

I know that many have done that before me. Certainly it was a very auspicious day in this House when we met to elect a Speaker fo r the first time. I also congratulate others who put their name fo rward fo r that position. I think it indicates how important we regard that offi ce. I know the House will look fo rward to working with the new Speaker, and yourself , Sir, as Deputy Speaker. I know that you have had some experience before, and we all know how important it is to have someone in the Chair to moderate our discussions and debates, and to keep us on track from time to time. Also a welcome to the new pages.

I know that this is a wonde rful experience and oppor tunity fo r pages to serve in this House. I have been here fo r some 12 years now and have had an opportunity to see some of those pages as they have gone through high school and university and on into their careers. In fact, not too many months ago , one of the young interns who was serving a few weeks in Minnedosa came to interview me, as part of his program was to talk about experiences in the Legislature and the way that we relate to the health care system.

So I am sure that many of you will continue on to post-sec ondary education, and we look fo rward to your accomplishments in the future. I also welcome back to the table staff who, of course, are a very dedicated and experienced group who help us to apply the important rules and regulations to the issues and the debates in this House. We all enjoy working with them, I know. Tomorrow we are going to have an oppor tunity to say a last farewell to Mr. Remnant who has served in this House longer than I have and certainly has always been there in terms of helping to make decisions and to give us direction.

We hope that he has a wond erful retirement as he leaves this House here in the province of Manitoba. I would also like to welcome the new members to the House, both on our side of the House and the other side of the House. I know this is an experience that I am sure most of you are going to enjoy. It is an experience like no other when you have the opportunity to be one of 57 members. We make friendships in here. We watch each other, evaluate each other, listen to each other. I tend to think that nothing new ever happens in here, but we do have an oppor tunity to make those new relations hips.

I think, as members have already commented to me in the brief time that we have been sitting here, some 10 days or whatever, that some of

December 8, 19 99 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 419 them do not find the decorum in here up to what they expected it was going to be. I can tell you from my experience that you tend to be treated the way you treat other people. I think that if they want to engage in some of the banter back and fo rth then they are going to be subject to some of the comments when they are on their feet. On the other hand, if you treat people with respect, that is the way you are going to be treated when you stand to make a comment. I would also like to welcome my fo rmer colle agues back on both sides of the House.

I know that all of you that have been here before understand the workings of this House. Even though we have had a change in government, the workloads are certainly going to change. We will work together fo r the betterment of Manitoba ns. We look fo rward to that . I would like to thank my constituents fo r re electing me to the House. This is my fo urth election. One of the, I think, sad parts about it is the redistribution process that we go through.

As a member of the House from 19 88 onward, you develop relationships with people in those communities that all of a sudden are taken out of your constituency and placed in another constituency. We will not get to see each other as often. Com munities like Erickson and Sandy Lake and Oak River and Strathclair are now going to be represented by my coll eague from Russell.

I will miss those relationships and the times we had to interact with municipal councillors, mayors and reeves and citizens in those areas, but that is our process here and one that as Manitobans I think we should be proud of, that when redistribution takes place, it is done in a fair and equitable manner. Even though we do not like the results sometime, we have to accept them. * (1 530) But I do thank not only my current constituents, but the ones that I inherited from the old riding of Turtle Mountain. I have come to know some of the people in communities like Souris and Wawanesa and Minto.

I know that we are going to be able to work together over the next fo ur years to bring fo rward your issues and to help resolve any of the problems that you have. I might also say that I think as Canadians and Manitobans we can be proud that when a government changes it is done here in a peaceful and dignified way, in an orderly way. The transition team, I think, was able to work with people who use:d to work on our side in a very prof essional way so that the change of government is very orderly.

A lot of that credit goes to the prof essional civil servants that we have, the deputy ministers, assistant deputy ministers and other leaders within those departments, to bring new members of government up to speed on the issues. They know full wdl, as Manitobans know, that governments will change from time to time. Manitoba always has, I think, a very close election campaign. I believe in this current one the government received the support of some 45 percent of the people. We as official opposition received the support of 41 percent. That is, in terms of elections, very close.

We have seen other provinces where governments are changed very dramatically, where they go from govern ment to a few seats. Here in Manitoba I think there is always a very moderate approach to government. We know :that as the new government comes into place and starts making decisions that affect the lives of Manitobans they start of fending people, and that is just the natural way it is. In fo ur years time there will be another oppor tunity fo r Manitobans to speak.

The honeymoon stage that currently exists will soon dissipate as decisions are made and changes, both in the manner in which the government governs, the decisions they make, start to affect Manitobans and, in some cases, disaffect them. I would like to now tum to the throne speech. Naturally we fo und the speech some what wanting. It was a very, very brief docu ment, and I do not think that is a surprise. The government was only in of fice a few weeks. They wanted to rush back into the House, and they did. That is their preroga tive, but it was not a very comprehensive document and one

420 LEGISLATIVE AS SEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 8, 19 99 which really spoke to Manitoba ns. I think there are issues in there with things that were not said, departments that were not recognized, issues that were not addressed. As a result we find that document somewhat wanting. But I want to first of all talk about the Manitoba of today , which is quite different than it was in 19 88 when I first came to this House, that there was a tremendous change in this province, I believe, due to the policies that were put in place in our term of of fice from 19 88 to 19 99.

I would like to just document fo r you the way I see the province as it is handed over to the new governm ent here in 19 99. We have a province of Manitoba where workers are well educated, highly skilled and are widely respected by employers fo r their enthusiasm, their creativity, their dedication and their loyalty. We think we have in Manitoba an excellent workf orce. Manitoba of fers an environ ment in which the costs of doing business are exceptionally attractive. Office space and industrial land are inexpensive and readily available, and electricity and long-distance rates are the lowest in Canada.

These are things that new businesses look at when they want to reloca te their businesses or when businesses want to expand within a province. Manitoba's physical infrastructure of roads, railways and airports permit finished goods to be shipped very quickly and cost effectively to any destination in the world, and while we have concerns about that infrastructure and it is something that has to be addressed, we knew that in government. We knew that we needed a federal partner, particularly with our highway system.

That has not changed, but the infra structure is there fo r businesses to produce and to sell their products. We have been particularly proud of the amount of American exports and world exports that we have produced here in Manitoba. We also have a state-of -the-a rt telecom munications inf rastructure in Manitoba. It provides ready access to the information high way in virtually all areas of the province and is a particularly important advantage fo r technology based businesses. I noticed in the paper today the Premier (Mr.

Doer) cutting a ribbon at a significant call centre in Selkirk, a line of work that he used to condemn fo r what he called McJobs. I think, as he gets a better under standing of the call centre industry and the 8,000 or 9,000 Manitobans who work in that industry this is a very solid industry, one with some good-paying jobs in it, one with some entry level jobs, but again, it is part of the Manitoba of today that I am sure he will come to appreciate.

The afforda ble cost of living, competitive levels of taxation, excellent recreational and cultural amenities and very attractive quality of life in Manitoba make it easy fo r companies to attract and keep employees at all levels. I know as a previous Minister of Cu lture that Winnipeg and Manitoba can be very, very proud of the fact that we have cultural activities here that are part of our quality of life that do not exist anywhere else in Canada, and it is part of the attraction of Manitoba in the late 19 90s.

We have the presence of post-sec ondary educational institutions in Manitoba ensuring the companies have ready access to a supply of highly qualified younger workers. Manitoba's universities and col leges also of fer valuable resources fo r employee training and research and development projects.

We have seen the tremendous numbers of Manitobans who have acquired jobs over the last number of years, the training and the retraining that takes place, and it is one of the very important aspects, I think, of our society and of previous government decisions to have institutions in Manitoba which provide this valuable training and move people into the workf orce. We also have a business-f riendly attitude at all levels of government in the province and has removed many of the barriers to doing business effectively that continue to exist in other juris dictions.

Public sector of ficials are willing to work together with business leaders in a spirit of co-o peration that is intended to help private sector companies get things done. We think this business-f riendly attitude is very, very important and one that the current government should look at very clearly, that decisions that they make, comments that they make, initiatives that they embark on, can very much affect this business friendly attitude that exists here today.

December 8, 19 99 LEGISLA TIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 42 1 From Question Period today, we heard about the dual marketing of hogs. We know that that has had a tremendous impact on what producers are doing out there. It has an impact on companies wanting to come in here and invest in Manitoba, and comments that were made yesterday by a new member fo r Interlake (Mr. Nevakshonoft) on hog marketing, the fact that the Premier (Mr. Doer) was dodging the question today is very, very significant and it sends a bad signal to people who want to invest in this province.

We think that it is not too late to rethink that and make some very clear statements that will allow Schneider's and other companies to not only enhance their business here but others will reloca te here because Manitoba is a place, and has been over the 19 90s, where the hog industry has very much prospered. It is due to a decision that was made in 19 95 to get away from the monopoly selling of hogs and into a dual marketing system. I advise the government not to tinker with that. They do so at their own peril.

The last thing I would mention about the Manitoba of 19 99 is the attitude of entrepreneurs in Manitoba. They have a can-do attitude that is a central part of Manitoba' s business culture, and it provides a tremendous stimulus for innovative and creative solutions to important issues and prob lems. Those of us who have observed over the last decade have seen a tremendous change in the way Manitobans feel about themselves and the way businesses have been created and thrived here. It is a change from the 19 80s, and all of us would like to see that continue.

I think it is important that Manitobans recognize the economic indicators that are out there and that government of ficials are apprised of on a weekly and monthly basis. We are very proud of the fact that we have an extremely low unemployment rate in Manitoba. It has gone down to one of the lowest in the country and it has stayed there-the regular unemployment rate, plus the student unemployment rate. It means that there are jobs here, there are opportunities here, and we have seen a reversal of the outflow of Manitobans now to the point where more people are staying and more people are entering Manitoba.

There hav1! been close to 40,000 new jobs created in the last fo ur years here in Manitoba, and that is a testament to the businesses that have loca ted h(!re, to the workf orce that has been educated here and the fact that people have confidence in this economy. The capital investment that has been recorded in Manitoba has increased over the last seven consecutive years, year over year. Capital investment is investment that can flow almost anywhere in the country, but .a lot of it has landed here in Manitoba.

Again, it shows the confidence that business has in our particular province. * (1 540) Exports to the United States have outpaced the national average fo r the fifth straight year. Again, whether it is furniture or windows or agricultural products or buses, these exports mean jobs here in Manitoba, and we think that the trade condi1tions have been enhanced over the last decade. Again, I would caution the govern ment not to tinker with that so that we can continue to create jobs by exporting good products from Manitoba to the United States and to other parts of the world.

Manufacturing shipments rose by some 7 percent last year, again a testament of the economy. In 19 98, house builders in urban areas showed a grmvth of almost 12 percent over the previous year. Again, whether it is here or in Brandon, there has been a tremendous increase in the number of housing starts. Average weekly earnings were up 3.3 percent, and in 19 98, more Manitobans were working -al most 55 0,000 people -than ever before in our history. So the climate here in Manitoba fo r the creation of jobs has been eXC(!llent.

We think that a lot of this has to do with the policies that were put in place by our government and I would hope policies that are continued by the new government. I would like to talk about the balanced budget legislation and the adherence to it. We know that, when this was passed in 19 95, many members who are now in government spoke very strongly against it, that they believed it was a fo olish thing fo r government to do. I do believe that a number of them have changed their stance on that and only time will tell. They

422 LEGISL ATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 8, 19 99 certainly indicated during the runup to the election that they now believed in balancing the budget and would do so. We hope that commit ment is a solid one and it is still there. Because those balanced budgets and those surpluses, the debt repayment and the priority spending have been a large part of making Manitoba the way it is in the late 19 90s, one where people have a good degree of confidence in the economy and where jobs have been created. I am aware that the Premier (Mr.

Doer) has not committed to accepting and keeping the balanced budget legislation the way it is. He is talking about making some minor changes in reference to Crown corpora tions. I do not think we see that as a problem. But if he starts tinkering with it any further, I think it is a sign that he is backsliding on a promise that he made during the campaign that Manitobans expect very strongly that he is going to commit to and fo llow through on. I would like to speak briefly about the Deloitte and Touche report that has been in the news for much of the last three weeks.

We believe very clearly that this is a politically inspired document. I can tell you that every year, if you look over the report of our budgets over the last five years-th ey are called budgetary Estimates-in most of those years, the budget was overspent as we reacted to pressures within departments. Some years it was underspent and money was lapsed. We also did have increased revenues. Part of the role of government is to keep that balanced. That is why Treasury Bo ard meets every week to make those decisions, to look at the expenditures that are necessary, to look at the ones that are not.

Sometimes it is just very important to say no, that we do not have to do that now; that could be left to another year. We believe, and we have said, that if we were in government we would have a balanced budget at the end of the year, and I believe that very strongly. Having said that, there are a number of challenges I think the new government is going to face that were not necessarily addressed in the throne speech. It is one of the areas that I think was lacking: very little mention of rural Manitoba, where we have seen a tremendous change over the last decade.

I know that the new Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs (Ms. Friesen) was in Brandon at the AMM convention. I congratulate her fo r spending the time there that she did, talking to reeves and mayors and councillors. I know that it is very important to them to have the ear of government and the opportunity to speak to cabinet ministers, and to be able to put fo rth their ideas and the challenges that they see, and to have a government that works with them. I would like to also congratulate my collea gue the member fo r Russell (Mr.

Derkach), who was the previous minister of Rural Develo pment, fo r many of the exciting programs that were introduced under his stewardship and allowed communities out there to grow and to thrive. You only have to travel to places like Brandon and Steinbach and Winkler and Morden to see how they were able to use government programs with their own ingenuity, their own initiative and their own resources in many cases to create jobs within their communities. I know that all of us in this House want to see all of Manitoba thrive.

I think the growth that we saw in rural Manitoba is one of the legacies of this government that we can be very, very proud of. I would urge the new Minister of Inter governmental Affairs to pay attention to that part of her department, and to see that those conditions that are out there that are created by entrepreneurs, by councillors, by citizens will continue, and that many of the progra ms, whether it is the REDI program or the Grow Bonds program or others, remain in place. Some of them need to be reviewed.

Some of them need to be changed, but I think there is a place fo r the government of Manitoba to assist those communities to realize their dreams. I would like to also mention the state of agriculture. We did have an emergency debate, a two-day debate, on agriculture earlier in this session, and I think it is valuable fo r all members of the House to recognize how important that industry is in Manitoba and the difficult times they are going through . I know that prior to the election and during the election it was the No.

I issue in my constituency, as producers were in somewhat desperate straits as the amount of moisture in southwestern Manitoba and other

December 8, 19 99 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 423 parts of Manitoba made it impossible fo r them to get their crops in. I know that producers, rural people, farmers are very independent people, very proud people, and they do not like having to come to government for assistance, but these were very unusual circumstances. Proba bly more important to all producers is the fact that the price that their commodities are getting in many cases in the grain sector are just completely and totally inadequate. The province does have a role to play here in lobbying the federal government.

It has a role to play in providing whatever assistance that it can to these producers. I would ask the new government to work very closely with organiza tions like the Keystone Agricul tural Producers to hear what rural people, farm people have to say. I would urge you to respond in whatever way you can to assist them in dealing with the issues that prevent them from making a living from something that is part of their way of life. I know members opposite have often said they want to save the family farm, as we all do, but it is in some ways a misnomer.

Recently a producer in the Brandon area tried to make very clear to readers of the Brandon Sun that farms come in all shapes and sizes, and in some cases one or two farm members have created a corpora tion and that does not make them bad people. A number of families make their living of f the land, and they need to be heard too.

I would urge you to recognize the fact that there are different farm corporations out there that are not run by some industrialist from Toronto or New York; they are run by a family but they have incorporated, and they need your time and your encou ragement and your assi stance as much as anybody. The government certainly will have their challenges, and their challenges in health care are being visited these days, as the new minister who had so many of the answers when he was in opposition is now finding that this is a big system, that there are very difficult issues to deal with. Certainly we wish him well.

We want Manitobans to continue to have a quality health care system that is accessible, but the same issues have been around for a long time, whether it is people in the hallways, whether it is waiting lists or wheth(�r it is staffing and contrac ts. I know that he has taken many years to study these issues, a111d now he has an opportunity to meet those challenges head-on, and we would simply ask that he be fo rthright with Manitobans and work with the various groups out there. I know that there was one day when he sort of threw up his hands and said everything was out of control.

Well, we expect he will have some bad days in that department, but we encourage him to keep trying and to see that he can meet those challenges and improve the situation in whatever way he can. * (155 0) The Minister of Education (Mr. Caldwell), we asked him some questions a week or so ago . He declined to answer a lot of them, but I can tell you that there are many teachers and superintendents and trustees out there who are asking about this guarantee that the minister is of fering to students. I mean, it resonates out there.

A lot of parents like to think that the minister is going to guarantee that their children can read and write. Much has been made of the fact that he has done away with the standards tests, but I can tell you that not all Manitobans agree with that. I would ask him to take another look at that. The guarantee, of course, implies that there is a standard that must be reached or exceeded, and we would like him to articulate that standard. I lmow teachers are asking fo r that because they feel that this is a rather impossible situation.

They are the ones who are going to be on the front lines, and they are the ones who are going to have to explain to parents that, yes, there is a guarantee and that guarantee is made by the minister, but your student, your child, still cannot read or write at the end of Grade 3 and maybe at the ��nd of Grade 5. That is unfortunate, but that is the reality that is out there. If there is, in fact, a standard that has been set that he is going to articulate, then it fo llows that there must be some standardized test that is going to be put in place at the end of the Grade 3 year to see that that guarantee is met.

So we would encomage him to come fo rward with those details as soon as possible, so that

424 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 8, 19 99 Manitobans can know exactly what it is he is guaranteeing. We would urge him to be very clear on that sometime in the near future, and we will have an oppor tunity to revisit it. The gaming issue is another one that Manitobans are certainly asking questions about. I know that the mayor of Brandon back in the spring was very, very clear-and two of his councillors now sit here in government-that there was not going to be a casino in Brandon.

I presume he spoke fo r all of council at that time, yet we hear at this time that there are thoughts of creating one in the area. I would hope that all counc ils, reeves, mayors are inf ormed of that and given an opportunity to have that discussion and have their input. I know we have gone to having referendums now on VL Ts in communities. It would only fo llow that if there is going to be a casino created in the city of Brandon or the muni cipality of Cornwa llis that local people have a chance to have their say on that. We will be fo llowing that up at a later time. So, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, I think at this time I am going to conclude. There are many issues which the government will face. Certainly we recognize that they do have an opportunity to make decisions, that people will be patient with them in the short run, but we think by rushing in with this throne speech they have left many things out of it, and we will be voting against it. Hon.

Tim Sale (Minister of Family Services and Housing): It gives me great pleasure, as it has all members, I believe, to rise in response to a very fine Speech from the Throne, a speech that I think is somewhat different from the federal speech to which we listened not that long ago and to a number of speeches in this House to which we have listened over the years. It was short, it was declarative, it said what we are going to do, it said what we were committed to do, and it said it in simple English.

It allowed us to adjourn that day in a much speedier fashion than sometimes we have done when we have listened to a great deal of rhetoric and flowery language which took a great deal of time but did not signify a whole lot. I want to wish our Speaker very well. I must admit that the moment at which he was elected, I felt a great deal of emotion, I guess, and pride to be a member of a House, the first provincial Legislature to elect an Innu Speaker. I wish him well. It is certainly an onerous duty keeping all of us in line on both sides of the House.

I know that he is increasingly making it clear to us that he expects us to abide by our own rules. He, I think, will prove himself to be a very fine Speaker. But I think it was a great moment when we chose him and when we fo r the first time elected a Speaker to this Chamber that has the support of all members. So I wish him very well. also want to pay tribute to our Deputy Speaker, who I believe has carried that position before and has chaired Public Accounts committees and is a very able chairperson with a profound commitment to the democratic process.

Many of his speeches in caucus remind us of some of those democratic traditions and principles that I think are extremely important to all of us. I know that he feels passionate ly about that, and I wish him well in his job as our Deputy Speaker in this Chamber. Finally, I want to thank the pages who each year we have a new group and they come. I am sure that there must be days when they are amazed that adults could behave so badly. An Honourable Member: Now, now. Mr. Sale: I know of course that would never apply to the member fo r Lakeside (Mr. Enns), who is always a perfect gentleman in this House.

But I would say to the pages that there are some reasons why things get heated here. Some of those reasons are that the things we do here are extremely important.

As you know from your own studies, every single aspect of your life and our lives is framed by the laws that are passed in this Chamber and in the House in Ottawa: the hospitals in which you were born, the schools which you currently attend, the degree to which you feel safe on our streets, the oppor tunities you have fo r recreation, the protections you enjoy as a person, whether it is a young person, an older person, a person of colour, a person whose sexual pref erence, whose

December 8, 19 99 LEGISLATIVE ASSE MBLY OF MANITOBA 425 orientation, whose poverty or whose nationality or whose religion is different from some dominant majo rity. Every single aspect that makes our life worth living has been debated in this Chamber. There are very fundamental and difficult choices to be made in that process. So it is probably not hard to understand, although I am sure in your early days here you must wonder. It is not hard to understand why we get passionate, because we care deeply about the values we represent as we speak here on behalf of our constituents.

We care deeply about the ideas we present representing different, decidedly different, pol itical understandings of the nature of a civil society. We do get passionate, and I would apologize to you in advance fo r sometimes appearing to be perhaps less than civil from time to time, but I think that it is important that we also have the right to be passio nate about the things that we care about and to represent those values and views as strongly and energetically as I know all members do from time to time. So I am glad of your presence, and I want to thank you fo r volu nteering to be here in

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	37-1-11
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	37th 1st hansardpdf 11.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	83a41d26a552f2812ecda6372f32fb11db9f7254

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