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May 4, 2023 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Vol. L No. 32

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

SPEAKER (Bennett): Order, please!

Admit strangers.

The hon. the Minister of Education.

J. HAGGIE: Thank you very much, Speaker.

I rise concerning a matter of privilege raised the other day by the Member for Labrador West. On reviewing Hansard , I see how my remarks could've been interpreted and therefore withdraw them.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: Today I'd like to welcome another new Page – her name is Blessing Opoku – to the House of Assembly this afternoon.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: Blessing is also from Ghana and she's completing her master's degree in political science at Memorial University.

Welcome to the House.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Statements by Members

SPEAKER: Today we'll hear statements by the hon. Members for the Districts of Burin - Grand Bank, Terra Nova, Ferryland, Conception Bay South and Placentia West - Bellevue.

The hon. the Member for Burin - Grand Bank.

P. PIKE: Speaker, Leo Papail grew up in Lord's Cove in the wonderful District of Burin - Grand Bank. Leo attended St. Joseph's Academy in Lamaline and, while in school, developed a passion for running.

As a matter of fact, and believe it or not, Leo would run home and race the bus and, in the winter, he ran behind the snowplow. By the way, he lived 10 kilometres from the school.

Leo competed at the provincial and national levels as a student and began running in official marathons in 2015. He has completed the six main marathons in the world. He has completed the marathons in Boston, New York, Chicago, London, Tokyo and Berlin.

What is amazing about this is that Leo did all this in less than three hours; his best time in Berlin at two hours and 38 minutes. To train for these gruelling races, Leo runs 100 kilometres per week, but certainly ramps up these distances in warmer weather.

Leo has been awarded the World Marathon Majors medal. Only a select few in Newfoundland and Labrador an in Canada have had this achievement. Leo proudly drapes the Newfoundland and Labrador flag around him at the finishing lines.

Congratulations, Leo. You make us proud of Newfoundland and Labrador and you are certainly a fitting role model for all.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Terra Nova.

L. PARROTT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, Comrade Carl Turner has been a dedicated member of Branch 41 of the Royal Canadian Legion in Eastport for 35 years. He has been a member of the executive for many years and has held numerous executive positions, including treasurer, second and first vice-president, membership committee chair and he is currently serving, once again, as the president of Branch 41.

Comrade Turner can always be counted on to help with any event at the Legion, and on many occasions you can find him in the kitchen all day long. Comrade Turner is the treasurer for the Bonavista North TV Bingo, and travels to Gambo every six weeks as part of the branch's commitment to this fundraising event. He's very active in his community and he has served as a councillor and is currently the mayor. Carl is also a Canadian Ranger and a Scout leader.

Please join me in congratulating Comrade Carl Turner on recently receiving the Royal Canadian Legion Life Membership Award – well deserved.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Ferryland.

L. O'DRISCOLL: Thank you, Speaker.

I rise in this hon. House today to recognize a great group of volunteers from the District of Ferryland: the Goulds Lions Club. On Saturday, April 15, the Goulds Lions celebrated their 47th annual charter night.

The Goulds Lions have played such a major

part in giving back to their community. Since the club began in the Goulds, it has played an enormous role in giving and helping in so many ways. So many great accomplishments have been achieved by the hard work of each and every member, past and present.

To name a few, the club was instrumental in acquiring the first fire truck for the Goulds Volunteer Fire Department and is the longest continual sponsor of St. John Ambulance Brigade. The Goulds Lions have made financial donations to the Goulds Lions Arena and, as well, provided a regulation-sized softball field, cost shared with the City of St. John's. This club is a major contributor to the Lion Max Simms Memorial Camp and, as well, sponsors the Goulds Leo Club.

I ask all Members of this House to join me in congratulating the Goulds Lions Club on their 47th charter night and all their accomplishments over the years.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Conception Bay South.

B. PETTEN: Thank you, Speaker.

On April 25, I had the pleasure of attending the 2023 Research Inspired Student Enrichment Awards ceremony, better known as RISE.

The RISE Awards recognize Level II high school students who demonstrate academic excellence in science, technology, engineering and mathematics. The selection process is competitive, including an academic assessment, future career and research interests relevant to our province.

Today I would like to recognize Corey Matthews and Melissa Smith who both attend Queen Elizabeth Regional High School in Conception Bay South. They have been selected to attend the Da Vinci Engineering Enrichment Program at the University of Toronto.

Corey Matthews is a Scouts Canada member since the age of five and has attended multiple engineering and robotics camps over the years. Corey is aiming to pursue a career in engineering.

Melissa Smith's interest in STEM began at an early age. She participates in the robotics team, audio media production, various contests and student groups. Melissa hopes to pursue a career in pharmacy, with a focus on researching digestive and reproductive issues in women and adolescents.

Speaker, I congratulate them both on their remarkable achievements. Please join me in wishing them all the best on this incredible experience and in their future endeavours.

Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Placentia West - Bellevue.

J. DWYER : Thank you, Speaker.

Today I rise in this hon. House to recognize the volunteers that make up our town councils and Local Service Districts in the beautiful District of Placentia West-Bellevue.

These volunteers are individuals who generously donate their time and skills to serve their community by being directly involved in the decision-making process that affects their community. They have the opportunity to work on projects that improve local infrastructure, increase public safety or enhance the quality of life for the residents.

With a total of 36 communities in our district, we have a total of 16 municipalities and 20 Local Service Districts. These volunteers are town-essential pillars that have a crucial role in the development and maintenance of our communities.

Speaker, I ask all hon. Members to please join me in thanking all town council and LSD volunteers, not just in the District of Placentia West-Bellevue, but in all communities throughout our beautiful Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Thank you, Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: Statements by Ministers.

Statements by Ministers

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister Responsible for Women and Gender Equality.

P. PARSONS: Thank you, Speaker.

Speaker, I rise today to recognize tomorrow, May 5, as the National Day of Awareness of Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women, Girls and 2SLGBTQQIA+ people, also known as Red Dress Day.

This is a day to honour the memory of all missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls and 2SLGBTQQIA+ people across Canada, including here in Newfoundland and Labrador.

It is also a day to raise awareness. Indigenous women, girls and 2SLGBTQQIA+ people face higher rates of violence than their non-Indigenous, cisgender and heterosexual counterparts.

Speaker, preventing this violence requires an approach that is culturally appropriate and informed by Indigenous knowledge keepers.

At the most recent annual Provincial Indigenous Women's Gathering, our Premier, the Minister Responsible for Indigenous Affairs and Reconciliation and I announced our government's commitment to establish a Provincial Indigenous Women's Reconciliation Council.

This council will coordinate and lead meaningful collaborative action in the actions in the areas of Indigenous culture, health and wellness, justice and human security as it relates to the violence against Indigenous women, girls and 2SLGBTQQIA+ people.

Through Budget 2023 , our government will continue to provide close to $400,000 to support Indigenous-led violence prevention initiatives. This includes the Indigenous Violence Prevention Grants Program and the annual Provincial Indigenous Women's Gathering and funding support to the Newfoundland Aboriginal Women's Network.

Speaker, our government is actively partnering with Indigenous governments and organizations and will continue to support actions that aim to prevent violence against Indigenous women, girls and 2SLGBTQQIA+ people here in Newfoundland and Labrador.

Thank you, Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Harbour Main.

H. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER: I thank the minister for the advanced copy of her statement.

Tomorrow is the National Day of Awareness of Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women, Girls and 2SLGBTQQIA+, also known as Red Dress Day.

On behalf of the Official Opposition, I'd like to take this opportunity to recognize the memory of all missing and murdered Indigenous persons. It is unacceptable, Speaker, that Indigenous women, girls and 2SLGBTQQIA+ people face higher rates of violence. Every effort must be made to stop the epidemic of gender-based violence and violence against Indigenous communities.

I remind the ministers opposite that there are still Calls to Action outstanding from the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Woman and Girls, which must be addressed. There are also recommendations from community stakeholder groups such as First Voice, which can help prevent violence.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains

L. EVANS: Thank you, Speaker.

First, I would like to thank the minister for an advance copy of her statement.

Without true gender equity an end to social and economic marginalization of Indigenous people, missing and murdered will continue to be our reality.

Why are Indigenous women and girls continuing to find themselves on our proverbial Highway of Tears? It's government's refusal to address economic and social marginalization, leaving them without hope.

Government speaks change, but words without action continue this deadly legacy of colonialism: MMIWG++.

Thank you, Speaker.

SPEAKER: Are there any further statements by ministers?

Oral Questions.

Oral Questions

SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: Speaker, when questioned about his refusal to bring the parties together in the standoff in the crab fishery, the Premier offered a meeting room and Mary Brown's, but did not commit to attending such a meeting.

Speaker, why does the Premier refuse to intervene to kick-start talks in our most lucrative fishery?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries, Forestry and Agriculture.

D. BRAGG: Thank you, Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

D. BRAGG: Just wait until you get the answer.

Mr. Speaker, I'm more than proud to get up here and talk about the fishery. Yesterday, May 3, I wrote a letter to the president of the FFAW and during that letter, I asked the FFAW to conduct a poll of his membership by secret ballot asking each individual snow harvester in the province the following question: Are you, as a snow crab harvester, ready and willing to go fishing for the price that was currently set at $2.20 a pound?

From that, I got accused of meddling into the affairs of the negotiations. Only a couple of days ago, they were saying the minister is never involved. I've been involved in this from day one.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

D. BRAGG: My office, the phone is ringing off the wall; my inbox is full on Facebook of people who want to go fishing, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: Thank you, Speaker.

I do appreciate, as we all do, the minister's intervening and doing what he can. I would hope and expect that the Premier would do more to make sure this fishery survives and moves in the right direction.

Every day that goes by and the FFAW and the ASP are not talking is another day delay in restarting our billion-dollar crab fishery. Now the lobster fishery has ground to a halt as processors are refusing to buy.

Instead of being paralyzed, why doesn't the Premier call both parties to a face-to-face meeting in this boardroom?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries, Forestry and Agriculture.

D. BRAGG: Thank you.

Once again an opportunity to get up and talk about the fishery.

Last Friday, I stayed in this city with the Minister of Labour, in which the president of the FFAW was in my office on Strawberry Marsh Road and said: we have a deal. We will go fishing for $2.20 a pound, we will give the bulk of the inshore fishermen the opportunity to catch their quota and we will restrict some of the offshore. He walked into the ASP office – I wasn't there but was told: we have a deal. He went back to his membership and could not formalize and finish the deal.

I'm not sure right now where the interest is for the president of the FFAW, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: Thank you, Speaker.

Premier, boats are tied up and the rural economy hangs in the balance. Meanwhile, your government has resorted to union busting as their solution. According to the FFAW President, Greg Pretty, the Liberal government – and I quote – undermines “the elected leadership of the union” by asking for a secret vote among members.

Why does the Premier believe attacking the legitimacy of the FFAW is going to solve this problem?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries, Forestry and Agriculture.

So unless the Opposition Member got a better solution, I suggest that the FFAW come back with ASP, myself and Minister Davis and let's talk about getting this fishery opened before it's too late.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: Thank you, Speaker.

One of the solutions would be that the Premier – the leader of Newfoundland and Labrador and particularly the Liberal government here – would sit down with the parties here and find a solution that works for everybody in Newfoundland and Labrador.

According to the FFAW, the union that represents the fishing industry here, the Liberal government's actions – and I quote again – “contradict the Fishing Industry Collective Bargaining Agreement Act, and open up the harvesters and the union to litigation.”

Why does the Premier believe that this will help get our fishing industry going again?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries, Forestry and Agriculture.

D. BRAGG: What else can I say, Mr. Speaker? What else can I say to the people of this province? I've made myself available 24-7, as has Minister Davis. There was a formula in – not a formula in place but a procedure in place to come to a price: $2.20. Nobody is happy with $2.20. They're fishing for $2.20 in the Gulf as we speak. The first crab is going into the market as we speak from the Gulf. They probably only got about 20 per cent of their market caught right now.

If we don't get our fishery open, not only do we stand the chance to lose this season, we stand the chance to lose many seasons because markets will be lost and, next year, plants just won't buy it, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: Thank you, Speaker.

Minister, we need the Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador to stand up for the fishing industry in Newfoundland and Labrador to make sure it's viable. That's why he's the Premier.

D. BRAZIL: Speaker, as the Premier sits on his hands, plant workers and harvesters are wondering how they're going to survive. Bills are piling up, cupboards are going empty and people cannot afford their medication.

Has government received any update on extension of EI benefits for affected crews and plant workers?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries, Forestry and Agriculture.

D. BRAGG: Speaker, I must say I did support a letter from the FFAW to extend EI purposes; I really think about the people who are not out fishing right now because I'm thinking the vast majority want to be on the water. It is in their blood; it has been in their blood for years. They want to be on the water. Plant workers want to be in the plants. EI is running out –

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible.)

D. BRAGG: Yes, people are going to have to watch their dollars to see this through. This will be worse than any crop failure you would see anywhere in the world if we don't get a crab fishery open in this province. It has been our backbone since the moratorium; we need to get it open, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: Thank you, Speaker.

The Premier touts when he can make a phone call to the prime minister or to a minister to get things done.

Has he made a phone call to ensure that EI benefits get extended to these plant workers and crew members to ensure that they can get through this spring and summer until something is done (inaudible)?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

SPEAKER: Order, please!

D. BRAZIL: A few weeks ago, the Premier said he would consider outside buyers.

Has the Premier made up his mind? Will he allow outside buyers in the Newfoundland and Labrador fishery?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries, Forestry and Agriculture.

D. BRAGG: To be honest, Speaker, I have not seen a letter from the FFAW or anyone else for the whole fishery. I did, yesterday, receive a letter from the FFAW to look at outside buyers for lobsters. We are looking at that right now but I guarantee you that if we allow that, they play by our rules. If a buyer comes into this province, they would have a licence from us and they would pay what the negotiated price is for our lobsters or for anything else for that matter, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: Thank you, Speaker.

Since the Liberal government has been in office, the people of St. Lawrence have been ignored. Their emergency room is closed and now the salmon will be trucked out of the Burin Peninsula. Local buy-in for producing salmon on the Burin Peninsula was based on local jobs.

I ask the Premier: When was he informed that Grieg decided to renege on their deal?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries, Forestry and Agriculture.

D. BRAGG: Thank you, Speaker.

The workings from company to company is not our involvement. What Grieg may have decided with any company in this province, we were not party of any of those agreements. So I am assuming if the broke an agreement, there is a legal process that will be followed.

So Grieg is doing great work in this province, I know their first fish will be coming out early this fall and I know they're having good success. I mean they have (inaudible) from what I can tell it has been zero mortality into that species so it is a good story. Is it bad for St. Lawrence? You know it is. When any plant – it is like every other plant in this province right now that lies dormant. We want to get our plants open as fast as we can and do as much as we can in this province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: Premier, I can reassure you if I give $30 million to a company of taxpayers' money, I want to know what they're doing and when they're doing it and who's going to benefit from what they're doing.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

D. BRAZIL: Particularly the people in St. Lawrence who were expecting these jobs.

The province gave Grieg a $30 million loan to get started and the former mayor, who is now a local MHA, and I quote: “…we, as mayors, needed to stand up for this company. And that's what we did.”

If the Liberals are standing up for Grieg, then who is standing up for the people of St. Lawrence?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries, Forestry and Agriculture.

D. BRAGG: Speaker, I'll speak again about the fishery and the process. I am delighted that Grieg is doing their fish in this province. It's only too easy for that species to be headed off, gutted and carried out for more processing. We're doing it in this province, we will employ people in this province, and that's the positive side. If there's any silver lining right now, they're our success in aquaculture and their fish get done in this province.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I have a question now I'm hoping that the Premier will answer on this one. It's been one month since I asked the Premier if he was going to apologize to the Churchill family, if he was going to compensate them for their full legal cost, and if was going to appoint them to the steering committee for deaf and hard of hearing education.

Will he now do the right thing: apologize to the Churchill family, compensate them for full legal costs and appoint them to the steering committee for deaf and hard of hearing children?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

A. FUREY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

B. PETTEN: Thank you, Speaker.

Speaker, last night the Premier found the cameras once again and announced a new mid-size theatre –

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

SPEAKER: Order, please!

B. PETTEN: – for the St. John's area.

While we appreciate the impact the arts community has for our province, can the Premier explain why he's building a new theatre when the historic Reid Theatre has sat vacant for more than a decade?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation.

S. CROCKER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I am very pleased to stand and answer this question today about the Premier's and the Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation announcement last night about 2024 being Year of the Arts in this province, Mr. Speaker. We truly appreciate our artists in this province and the value they bring to our economy.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

S. CROCKER: Four-hundred and fifty million dollars annually, 5,000 jobs, Mr. Speaker, this is a very important industry. If the Member opposite would've been listening last night, what he would've heard was the Premier say we're looking for an opportunity to establish a mid-size theatre or build, renovate, whatever, a theatre here in St. John's.

Mr. Speaker, the next steps of this process will be what we decide to do and the feasibility around such a theatre.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I look forward to another question on this one.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

B. PETTEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We listened. They have an opportunity. They can go and renovate the Reid Theatre. It's been left vacant for 10 years. A lot cheaper and probably the right place to put it over at the MUN campus.

I never asked him to detail what good news they've done again, if it's good news. To them it is. I don't really get the good news of it.

After years of the Liberal government cutting the budget at Memorial University – I hope he listens to this one now – the primary issue stopping the completion of the renovation is funding. He just announced all that money.

I ask the Premier: Why are we spending money on a brand new space when half the completed Reid Theatre still needs attention? Pretty simple.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation.

S. CROCKER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I hope I get the next 10 minutes, like the Minister of Fisheries, Forestry and Agriculture did, Mr. Speaker, because I will stand here all day and defend decisions that support artists in our province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

S. CROCKER: I will repeat for the Member opposite, seeing as he likes to repeat in his

preambles, Mr. Speaker: $450-million industry in this province and 5,000 jobs. We're only just getting started when it comes to building the arts economy in this province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

S. CROCKER: One of the main determining factors for a tourist to visit our province, Mr. Speaker, is our arts and culture.

L. PARROTT: (Inaudible.)

S. CROCKER: I hear the Member for Terra Nova over there. If he'd like to ask a question, I'll sit down.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

S. CROCKER: So if he would like to ask a question, I'll sit down and he can ask one.

Mr. Speaker, again, I will stand up for the arts industry in this province any day of the week.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

SPEAKER: Order, please!

B. PETTEN: Speaker, if they all joined the arts community and they all go and audition for Disney, we're going to have to have a little general election before the summer comes, because the list is getting longer every day. Another great performance. I'm complimenting. A great performance, an Oscar award.

We support artists, Mr. Speaker, but we also support reasonable, responsible spending. Not for the photo op, not for what looks good to them –

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

SPEAKER: Order, please!

B. PETTEN: – but looks good to the people of the province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

B. PETTEN: Speaker, the Reid Theatre was a starting place for major talent from our province. Come From Away's Petrina Bromley is among those who have taken the Reid Theatre stage. The Reid Theatre is a perfect example of a mid-size venue needed by the arts community.

Did the Premier actually listen to what the artists wanted or did you just want another photo op?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation.

S. CROCKER: Again, Mr. Speaker, I hope I got eight minutes left.

Mr. Speaker, he referenced Come From Away . Now, I know they hate good news but I'm going to deliver a little bit more. About a year ago, we went to work and made an arrangement with the producers of Come From Away to bring Come From Away to Gander this coming summer.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

S. CROCKER: Mr. Speaker, it is going to bring millions – literally millions of dollars – in GDP to Gander this summer. We've sold 14,000 tickets. As of last Friday, there were 43 tickets left for 37 shows.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

S. CROCKER: We will continue to invest in the arts in this province, day in and day out, because it brings a return. Come From Away will help revitalize the arts community in Gander, and we want to spread that right around this entire province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Harbour Main.

H. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER: Speaker, media has reported that residents of this province have filed hundreds of complaints alleging police misconduct over the last decade. The top complaints were assault, conduct unbecoming an officer and incomplete investigations. Multiple officers have had over a dozen complaints filed against them. Yet, the process to adjudicate these complaints is hidden closed doors.

Minister, why the hidden process?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Public Safety.

J. HOGAN: Thank you, Speaker.

Thank you for the opportunity to respond. I just want to make a note that the RNC Act does have a heading which is headed Public hearings and

section 32(1) of the act says: All hearings conducted by an adjudicator shall be open to the public and notice of those hearings shall be published.

Now, all those hearings that make it to that stage are public, so everyone can know about it, everyone can attend and everyone can participate. But sometimes as we know, Speaker, a complainant might not want something to be public. If you read further in the RNC Act, it allows a situation for any complainant to have that situation resolved where he or she doesn't have to make it public. We all know that some of these complainants might be victims.

I have said on numerous occasions, I'm not interested in forcing a victim who doesn't want to talk about a personal traumatic issue publicly, to force them to do so. Let's look at all the act and not just one

section and one media story when we talk about (inaudible).

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Harbour Main.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Member for Harbour Main.

H. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER: Yet, I'll remind the minister that the former RNC police chief in 2021 recommended that internal disciplinary hearings of officers be open to the public.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

H. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER: Yesterday, Speaker, First Voice repeated their call for civilian police oversight board. Their position remains the same as it did several months ago. Action is urgently needed now.

Will the minister take the advice of this important advocacy group to establish a civilian police oversight board?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Public Safety.

J. HOGAN: Thank you, Speaker.

I think, as we all know, we've heard over the last few months that the discussion around policing in this country, not just in this province, has changed. It has become more active and certainly following the report of the Mass Casualty Commission in Nova Scotia has brought a light to policing in this country.

I'm happy to report that we're a little bit ahead of the game; we're welcome to change, we're open to change and we've been investigating the best way to do change. We did an investigative report into workplace culture at the RNC here in this province and following that we established a working group back in September 2022, which involves members of the RNC and members of the Justice and Public Safety division.

As I said a few days ago in this House – actually, a couple of times in this House – because of the current budget, we are now having a 10-person additional unit to deal specifically with policing issues in this province which will look at policy.

I, again, look forward to everyone supporting the budget so we can get that unit in place.

SPEAKER: The minister's time has expired.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Harbour Main.

H. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER: Well, Speaker, I would say to the minister that he's not ahead of the game. If you listen to advocacy groups such as First Voice, the minister, yes, has met with the First Voice group, but according to First Voice these conversations have not resulted in any commitments on the part of the provincial government, or even any counter proposals or agreed upon next steps. Those are their words.

Why is the minister not acting to restore public confidence in policing in this province?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Public Safety.

J. HOGAN: Thank you, Speaker.

As I've said before and I've said to First Voice on a couple of meetings I've had with them, I appreciate the work they've done. I appreciate the report. I've read it thoroughly more than once. I've also said to them on a number of occasions that we do have an obligation to meet with other groups in this province. That includes other Indigenous groups, that includes women's groups, which I think is very important and very fitting on this day when we look at MMIWG – to meet with women's groups and have their views on police and police oversight, as well as other racialized groups, which the Anti-Racism committee has been speaking to as well.

Do you know what? It does take time, but I'd rather take time and get it right, than jump on the first report that lands on my desk, Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Exploits.

P. FORSEY: Speaker, just yesterday the Liberals voted against fixing serious issues with Crown lands.

Will the Liberals ever show leadership and bring in legislation facing problems against Crown lands in this sitting of the House of Assembly?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries, Forestry and Agriculture.

D. BRAGG: Thank you very much, Speaker.

If the Member opposite was paying any attention, two days ago we issued a press release saying that we issued – yesterday, was it, or was it two days ago. I've lost track of time to be honest. We issued a What We Heard when it comes to Crown lands and

section 36, in particular, often referred to as squatter's rights.

I encourage the Member to print a copy, have a read and let's have a discussion about it later on.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Exploits.

P. FORSEY: Speaker, when the Liberals voted against our motion, they voted against the will and best interests of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Why does the government find it necessary to undermine the people who just want to see fair and timely services from this department?

Will the minister induce legislation in this sitting?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries, Forestry and Agriculture.

D. BRAGG: My only regret, Speaker, is that I didn't have the opportunity to speak on that yesterday, because the way it was written was so ambiguous. It was like it was made up. It was very fictional. There are actual hard facts. It was almost like a Disney show, a script, the way it was written. It was almost Disney.

Here it is. Here's the document: What We Heard . I have a newly, freshly minted copy here for the Member opposite if he wants to have a look. I'll table it. Actually, when I sit down, I'll walk across the House with it, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Windsor - Buchans.

C. TIBBS: There are tons of Crown lands issues, Speaker. We're just trying to come up with the best solutions for the people of the province. That's all were trying to do.

Speaker, the Minister of Digital Government and Service NL is responsible for Collection Services, which administers and collects certain outstanding debt owed to this government. It was indicated in Estimate's document that there are a number of vacancies and there were delays in recruiting officers within collections.

I ask the minister: Has this impacted collection of debt owed to the government?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Digital Government and Service NL.

S. STOODLEY: Thank you, Speaker.

Part of shared services is bringing together things across government that we can make more efficient and I'm very excited to say that last year we did that. We brought collections from multiple areas across government together under my department. It's going really well. I thank the public servants in our department for their very important work. They work with people across the province and, you know, when they owe us money, are often in a difficult situation in their lives so we try and get a good balance in working with people to collect money owed to the Crown, which we take very, very seriously, Speaker.

During COVID, we pivoted with the team to focus on COVID-related activities and not to harshly pursue – we tried to prioritize our areas while being sensitive to people's needs during COVID.

We have a range of vacancies in our department. I'd encourage anyone to apply for any of our roles on the website. We'd be very pleased to welcome people to our department.

Thank you, Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Windsor - Buchans.

C. TIBBS: Thank you, Speaker.

Salaries for Collection Services for this year are budgeted almost $1.1 million but overall the budget for Collection Services has decreased by almost 20 per cent.

Is the minister concerned that there will be a problem collecting debt owed to this government?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Digital Government and Service NL.

S. STOODLEY: Thank you, Speaker.

I thank the Member for the question. I thank our team who worked very hard in the collections team, working with companies and individuals across the province who do owe our provincial government money. I'm not sure, exactly, what the qualifications are off the top of my head, but if the Member would like to apply for a job, I can certainly send him the job application.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Windsor - Buchans.

C. TIBBS: Thank you, Speaker.

I have a job, but there are people out there that probably could use that job. So I'll definitely put them on to you, Minister. I appreciate it.

In Estimates –

S. CROCKER: (Inaudible.)

C. TIBBS: Sorry?

SPEAKER: Order, please!

C. TIBBS: That's the third time you've gotten personal with me, Crocker.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Windsor - Buchans.

C. TIBBS: In Estimates, the minister couldn't provide an answer to how much money was owed to government through Collection Services, but an official indicated that it was in excess of $300 million.

I ask the minister: Is the amount of money owed to government increasing or decreasing under her watch?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Digital Government and Service NL.

S. STOODLEY: Thank you, Speaker.

As I mentioned, the responsibility for shared services – over the past few years, we've taken a bunch of different collections that are across government and brought them together so we have a dedicated team with excellent leadership. They are focusing on prioritizing the Crown's interest in the debt owed to government. We take this responsibility very seriously.

We have a range of debt owed. Companies big and small owe us money, as well as people with student loans. So there is a range of debt. We manage that and actively work with Justice and government departments to make sure that we look at taxpayers' interest in that debt as best we can.

Thank you, Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Windsor - Buchans.

C. TIBBS: Thank you, Speaker.

Speaker, in March we saw a catastrophic mechanical failure on a school bus in Mount Pearl. Despite repeated assurances from the minister, inspection reports on the bus are still not available online.

Speaker, what is going on? When will these inspections be available online, Minister?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Digital Government and Service NL.

S. STOODLEY: Thank you, Speaker.

School bus safety is incredibly important. At the beginning of the school year, we inspect 100 per cent of our school bus fleet and then every few months there are another 30 to 40 per cent of inspections that we do. So the safety of our students is paramount, Speaker.

The school bus in question was successfully inspected and had a pass rating in January. There's currently an RNC investigation ongoing, which our team of highway enforcement officers are participating in and we're waiting for the outcome of that investigation.

Thank you, Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains.

L. EVANS: Thank you, Speaker.

In February, we were told that the Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner Program could not be expanded into Labrador and Central Health regions until a provincial coordinator was hired. According to the then minister of Health, the work to fill this position was active and underway. That was in 2021; two years ago.

So I ask the Premier: Why hasn't this critical position been filled?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The issue that the Member raises is very important. I know that the department and the Health Authority are looking at putting the training in place for individuals throughout the province – the nurses – so that they can undertake this very important process and service to the women throughout the province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains.

L. EVANS: There's no coordinator position posted yet, Speaker.

Speaker, because the government hasn't bothered to fill this position, victims of sexual assault in our province have reduced access to justice on top of their health concerns.

I ask the Premier: How high is the priority for victims of sexual assault to this government?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This issue is a high priority. I've had a number of meetings with officials in the department, Mr. Speaker. I am assured that the Health Authority is undertaking the training for nurses in areas throughout the province so that this service can be provided to the victims of crimes to women who need this service.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

J. BROWN: Thank you, Speaker.

Speaker, yesterday, the Minister of Education stated that informal and formal channels of communication are established and working. Such a statement is ignoring the calls of my constituents. They have been calling me, demanding that the teachers be able to meet directly with the minister's deputy. It looks as though the minister is dismissing the issues of these workers.

I ask again, respectfully: Will the teachers, support staff and union reps in the schools in Labrador West have an opportunity to present their issues directly to the department next week?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

J. HAGGIE: Thank you very much, Speaker.

I think the piece that's missing in these discussions is the role of the NLTA. The union is now one and it is appropriate that I bring this up with my meeting with president Langdon in a couple of hours.

Certainly, I would be interested in hearing views on teaching from anyone, but I think really to leave the NLTA, as an organization out, is a disservice to them.

Thank you, Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Third Party.

J. DINN: Thank you, Speaker.

Speaker, deaf and hard of hearing teachers are allocated on the number of deaf and hard of hearing students in the K-to-12 system, yet they are also responsible for preschool children. This increases their workload and takes away resources and supports of children in the school system.

I ask the Premier: Will his government commit to hiring deaf and hard of hearing specialists to work with preschool children so that they and school-aged children get the attention they deserve?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

J. HAGGIE: Thank you very much, Speaker.

This is an important topic. I have a meeting with the Newfoundland and Labrador Association for the Deaf, I think as early as Monday of next week, possibly Tuesday, I may misspeak, I wouldn't want to err.

The skills required for deaf and hard of hearing teaching are not easily found. They are difficult to recruit and difficult to retain. That is why, again, this afternoon I'll be meeting with the NLTA to discuss ways to enhance recruitment and retention of all kinds of teachers, specialists and generalists. It is an ongoing problem and we work hard to address this as best we can.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Third Party.

J. DINN: Thank you, Speaker.

Speaker, the chairlift at A. P. Low Primary has been out of order for months, directly affecting students with mobility issues and impacting their learning. Government has done nothing to address the issue. Other schools in the area face similar issues. I can tell you that teachers have certainly brought to the attention have been ignored.

I ask the Premier: When can the school community expect to have the lift repaired or replaced so that students, staff and parents with mobility issues are not excluded?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

J. HAGGIE: Thank you very much, Speaker.

I'm aware that in some of the older schools in the province, and the Member opposite references one, that there are maintenance challenges with aging schools. Lifts and lift technology is in demand at the moment and there are significant supply chain issues. There are also limited personnel available in the province to do this work. There have been challenges with janitorial and maintenance staff recruitment in Labrador West because of significant competition from IOC.

All that being said, these are issues we're working with the school district on and as one would hope with amalgamation, we would be able to streamline that process between a unified department and school district and the Department of Transportation and Infrastructure.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The time for Question Period has expired.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Placentia - St. Mary's.

S. GAMBIN-WALSH: Speaker, pursuant to the motion of referral of March 23, 2023, and in accordance with Standing Order 72, the Social Services Committee met on five occasions: April 4, April 5, April 6, May 1 and May 3.

The Social Services Committee have considered the matters to them referred and, pursuant to Standing Order 75(2), have directed me to report that they have passed without amendment the Estimates of the Department of Children, Seniors and Social Development; the Department of Education; the Department of Health and Community Services; the Department of Justice and Public Safety; the Department of Municipal and Provincial Affairs; and Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corporation.

Further, the Committee recommends that the report be concurred in.

SPEAKER: Thank you.

Any other presenting reports by standing and select committees?

Tabling of Documents.

Notices of Motion.

Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given.

Petitions.

Petitions

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Ferryland.

L. O'DRISCOLL: Thank you, Speaker.

The background to this petition is as follows:

The Witless Bay Line is a significant piece of infrastructure.

Whereas many commute outside the Avalon on a daily basis for work, as well as commercial, residential and tourism growth in our region has increased the volume of traffic on this highway.

Therefore we petition the House of Assembly as follows: We urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to upgrade this significant piece of infrastructure to enhance and improve flow of traffic to and from the Trans-Canada.

Speaker, this is my first time getting up on this petition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

L. O'DRISCOLL: Not really.

I've been speaking about this since I came in here and it's something that's very significant in my district. I'm going to call it a short cut to go to the Trans-Canada because anyone from Bay Bulls or from Trepassey, if they come down or they're going to the Trans-Canada, most times they're taking the Witless Bay Line. The road is deplorable.

We have the ongoing joke up our way is that the water bomber laid the pavement on the road, it's that rough. You can't drive across it. People with campers – after doing a petition on this, a motorcycle driver said don't forget about the motorcycle drivers going across Witless Bay Line – another issue. They're zigzagging across. People behind you may think you're drinking and driving when you're going across, it's that bad. You're driving across the road; you're avoiding potholes. Then get in the nighttime there's no way to see them. Get out tonight now when the fog is low-lying to the ground, coming across at 50, 60 kilometres, two tires gone if you hit the wrong hole.

It's time for this government to get this done, make sure it gets in our budget to take care of the people in the Ferryland District and for the province to get this done.

Thank you, Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Stephenville - Port au Port.

T. WAKEHAM: Thank you, Speaker.

The Government of Newfoundland and Labrador introduced a 20-cent per litre tax on sugar-sweetened beverages at a time when many families, seniors and residents of the province are struggling with the already skyrocketing increased cost of living in the province.

Therefore we petition the hon. House of Assembly as follows: We, the undersigned, call upon the House of Assembly to encourage the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to cancel the sugar-sweetened beverage tax at the earliest opportunity.

Speaker, I've spoken many times on this sugar tax and now, of course, the budget confirmed what we've been saying all along. It's not meant to modify people's behaviour; it's meant to take more money out of people's pockets.

This year's budget is over $12 million. When this was initially talked about, we were talking about a forecast of around $9 million annually. It obviously has increased as it's now in the budget. But it's just that. They reference the United Kingdom in many of the things when they talk about the effectiveness of it. But in the United Kingdom they applied the tax on the manufacturer, not on the people. They forced the manufacturers to change their formulas.

We do not have that authority or ability in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, I would argue, to tell manufacturers how to change their formula. What did we do instead? We taxed the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. The biggest impact is on the people who can least afford it. That's been part of the problem and I would hope that the government would see fit to turn around and eliminate the sugar tax just as they eliminated that infamous levy tax that they put everybody when they first got elected, because this is nothing more than another way of finding a way to tax people.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance, President of Treasury Board.

S. COADY: Thank you very much, Speaker.

I listened with intent on the call from the Member opposite on the sugar-sweetened beverage tax. I'd like to point out to him there was a most recent article, I think it was last week, in The Globe and Mail that did a comprehensive evaluation of evidence from past studies on the 45 harmful health effects of sugar and sugar-sweetened beverages. The evidence review was published online on April 5. It analyzed results of 73 meta-analysis, which included 8,600 individual studies. Let me tell you what they found.

Based on conclusions, the researchers recommended consuming no more than 25 grams of added or free sugars a day. That's about six teaspoons worth. To put it in perspective, one 355-millilitre can, one can of pop, has nine teaspoons, Speaker.

Now, I will remind the Member opposite there are many, many advocates for this type of impact on sugar-sweetened beverage tax, including the Canadian Paediatric Society and I'm quoting from them: “The excessive consumption of sugar-sweetened beverages has been strongly associated with weight gain, chronic disease development, and dental caries.”

Let me talk about the Heart and Stroke Foundation: “Sugary drinks are the number one source of added sugar in the Canadian diet, and too much added sugar is not good for heart health.”

Speaker, I will say to the Member opposite his numbers from the budget, last year it was $6 million; this year is $12 million (inaudible) –

SPEAKER: The minister's time has expired.

The hon. the Member for Harbour Main.

H. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Speaker.

The reasons for this petition are:

WHEREAS affordable, reliable and safe child care is a necessary component of a functioning society, especially one that expects to reduce poverty, create employment, decrease out-migration and increase in-migration, all of which are essential for a growing economy; and

WHEREAS accessible child care is as much as vital and important for a growing economy and flourishing population;

THEREFORE we petition the hon. House of Assembly as follows: We, the undersigned, call upon the House of Assembly to urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to immediately take the necessary action to ensure that accessible child care is just as much available as it is affordable.

Speaker, I have received a really tragic email on Monday from someone who addressed this to me as well as to the Minister of Education. I'm going to paraphrase it in the interest of time since we're limited in how much time we get on a petition, but I will reference some of the important points that this person makes. She said she wants to discuss the abysmal state of our urgent child care situation on the Avalon. She says that, of course, we're aware of it, and how difficult it is to obtain child care for our constituents.

But, Speaker, she goes on to mention a few points that have to be on the record and we have to hear about the real-life experiences of people who are enduring this child care crisis. She's a registered nurse; she has a primary position in the ER of the Health Sciences Complex. Her husband, he's a cabinet worker; he's a carpenter. Many, many years of valuable experience. They have a three-year-old toddler and another on the way.

They moved home to their Province of Newfoundland from Ontario a little over a 1½ year ago to ideally raise a family in our – she quotes – beautiful province, living near her family, but little did we know we would have next-to-no options available to us for child care.

She accepted a full-time, permanent position, which we all know is desperately needed in our hospitals. She quickly had to drop that permanent position, Speaker, as she was unable to find regulated, consistent child care. This was a terrible cost to her family financially and our health care system. Luckily, she found a home daycare provider, but that didn't last long because the daycare provider had to go on maternity leave.

She said her son is on wait-lists for every single regulated daycare from Seal Cove to Paradise for over a year and not one call or available spot. She said they are losing their –

SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Member's time has expired.

H. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's Centre.

J. DINN: Thank you, Speaker.

I am presenting another petition on reforming the justice system to better serve survivors of sexual assault.

WHEREAS the global Me Too Movement laid bare the gross inequalities and obstacles facing survivors of sexual assault who seek justice; and

WHEREAS serious concerns about how the justice system handles criminal offences related to sexual violence are evident based on statistics about the reporting rates of sexual assault in relation to other crimes. These concerns also emerge from the reported experience of survivors; and

WHEREAS in Canada one in three, 31 per cent, of victimizations is reported to police but only one in five sexual assaults are reported to police; and

WHEREAS survivors hesitate to report sexual assaults because they don't believe they will see justice; and

WHEREAS these facts and conditions all combine and result in a failure of the justice system for survivors of sexual assault;

THEREFORE we, the undersigned, call upon the House of Assembly to urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to acknowledge that the status quo is failing survivors of sexual assault; undertake a review of the K-to-12 curriculum to identify gaps in education about consent, healthy relationships and gender-based violence; implement alternative justice options, such as transformative and restorative justice practices and/or options rooted in Indigenous legal traditions and practices in response to gender-based violence throughout the province; have the Minister of Justice ask the chief judge of the Provincial Court to consider a practice directive which would prohibit opposing counsel from approaching witnesses and which would prohibit counsel from yelling at witnesses; introduce mandatory training for provincial judges on trauma, PTSD and consent modelled on the federal requirement; and consult with key community stakeholders to identify and appropriately fund new initiatives to prevent and address all forms of gender-based violence.

Speaker, this has been brought up a number of times and it certainly would be good for the Minister of Justice to respond to it.

In the early discussion about police oversight, there was a discussion around confidentiality and how some survivors or people may not want something made public; well, that's certainly addressed here as well. But, if anything else, when you look at four and five about the instruction to Provincial Court judges and training for provincial judges, you can bet that this is based on the experiences of survivors of sexual assault in the court system.

I'll stop here and allow the minister the opportunity to respond.

Thank you.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista.

C. PARDY: Thank you, Speaker.

Several abandoned buildings in unincorporated areas or LSDs pose a significant health and safety hazard to local residents and tourists, including collapsed or collapsing structures or dwellings. Others are dens for rodents. These abandoned buildings also undermine the tourism and development potential of many picturesque communities in the District of Bonavista, which is heavily reliant on this industry for economic growth.

We, the undersigned, call upon the House of Assembly to urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to bring forward legislation that acts on the removal of these collapsed or dilapidated structures.

I would like to reference what the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board mentioned to the Member for Stephenville - Port au Port a short while ago on the

article – we all believe in the

article and the ills on sugar. We certainly believe that. I was waiting for her to say that taxation is the best way to curb it and that wasn't in the article. That is our contention is that the taxation piece wasn't the best way of dealing with it and approaching it.

These abandoned structures that we have, now that regionalization is off the table and is not occurring, I would say that if we want to maintain our rural areas and we want to maintain tourism in these wonderfully picturesque communities of which the film industry is deeply attracted to, we have to make sure we look at existing and abandoned properties that would be in these areas.

Mr. Speaker, you know that we've had conversations in the past about this. I think we need further exploration as what we can do to make sure that these dilapidated, collapsing structures that are strewn all over my district would be seen to in a very articulated and in a due process. That's what we ask.

We said yesterday we wanted a change in Crown Lands. My Member and colleague for Exploits was asking can we bring the Crown Lands legislation in this sitting? I would like to see legislation brought this sitting that would deal with the dilapidated and collapsing buildings throughout our district so that the Bishops in Newmans Cove can rest easy and the collapsed buildings in Knights Cove can be removed.

We need government intervention; we need legislation and no time like the present to bring legislation in.

Thank you, Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: Orders of the Day.

Orders of the Day

SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

J. HOGAN: Thank you, Speaker.

I call from the Order Paper, Motion 7.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

J. HOGAN: Thank you.

I move, seconded by the Deputy Government House Leader: That for the purpose of reviewing the Estimates of the Executive Council in Committee of the Whole House, debate shall proceed in the same manner as adopted by Committees of the House reviewing Estimates, that is, in 10-minute question and answer periods.

SPEAKER: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

All those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

SPEAKER: All those against, 'nay.'

Motion carried.

The hon. the Government House Leader.

J. HOGAN: Thank you, Speaker.

I call from the Order Paper, Committee of Supply, Estimates of Executive Council and the Legislature.

SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Government House Leader.

J. HOGAN: I move, seconded by the Deputy Government House Leader, that the House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole on Supply to consider the Estimates of Executive Council and the Legislature.

SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that I do now leave the Chair for the House to resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole to discuss the Estimates of the Legislature and the Executive Council.

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

All those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

SPEAKER: All those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

On motion, that the House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole, the Speaker left the Chair.

Committee of the Whole

CHAIR (Warr): Order, please!

We are reviewing Estimates in the Committee of Supply and I'll ask the Clerk to call the subheads.

CLERK (Barnes): For the Legislature, 1.1.01 through 8.1.01 inclusive.

CHAIR: Shall 1.1.01 to 8.1.01 carry, the Legislature?

All those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

On motion, subheads 1.1.01 through 8.1.01 carried.

CLERK: The total.

CHAIR: Shall the total carry?

All those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

On motion, the Legislature, total heads, carried.

CHAIR: Shall I report the Estimates of the Legislature carried?

All those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

On motion, Estimates of the Legislature carried without amendment.

CHAIR: We're going to call the Estimates of the Executive Council. I'll ask the Clerk to call the subhead, please.

CLERK: The Lieutenant-Governor's Establishment, 1.1.01

CHAIR: Shall 1.1.01 carry?

The Chair is recognizing the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

S. COADY: Thank you very much.

I'm very happy to have the opportunity today to discuss the Estimates for a number of very important Committees, such as Government House, Premier's Office, Executive Support, Treasury Board, the Office of Information, Women and Gender Equality and, of course, Access to Information and Protection of Privacy.

I can say, without fair contradiction here or anywhere, we have a very hard-working public service. There are about 7,314 core government employees who are working. Then there are tens of thousands more who are working in the hospitals and schools around the province as well. They are hard-working professionals and we are very, very pleased to have them supporting us in Newfoundland and Labrador.

We look forward to the Estimates process. As for people who are watching today, this is an opportunity for us to have an open dialogue on all the expenditures within these categories that I just listed. Because we are in a Committee of the Whole and that means we're having the Committee in the House of Assembly, we do not have our support team with us today. But they are all very much engaged and listening and are pleased to answer any questions that anyone may have on the expenditures of these very important entities.

On that note, Chair, I'll wait for the first questions and I look forward to them.

CHAIR: Thank you.

Shall 1.1.01, Government House, carry?

The Chair is recognizing the Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Like the minister, I want to echo, too, the acknowledgement of the hard work by the core civil servants – all civil servants. But particularly when we get into the budget process, the core civil servants and the programs and services that are done there, and particularly the Minister of Finance's staff themselves who put this together.

We had a very open and informative three-hour-plus debate in Estimates a week or so ago, which was informative. Obviously, as the minister just outlined, this is the next stage of Executive Council which takes in a number of the other headings that don't stand alone from an Estimates point of view but are very important to the financial well-being and the delivery of services to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. So I'm honoured to be part of this process again and have been for the last number of years. I look forward to asking some questions for clarification. The fact that this is now being televised, more people can get a better understanding of how we do Estimates.

Just to add on what the minister had said, we've been spending a minimum of three hour intervals on particular headings for line departments, outlining exactly what may be some of the issues that we may have around clarification so that the general public would have an understanding as to where their taxpayers' money is being spent, what the timelines might be around particular programs or services being put out to the general public, and what may be some of the visionary expectations for future programs and services that would benefit the people of the province.

So our objective over here always has been three main components here: clarification on the monies that have been spent; accountability on the monies that have been spent; and getting a true outline of some visionary concepts, programs or services that would address some of the other particular needs that may not now be addressed in the budgetary process. So I think we've been successful in that and that's reflected in the questions we ask in the House of Assembly about certain pieces of information to get some additional clarification for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

So I do engage this and for the next number of hours myself and my colleagues on this side will be asking questions under various headings to various ministers on the government side here. We do anticipate an open, fair and informative dialogue and we look forward to that. Then, hopefully, the end result will be people will be more informed as to where the monies are going and how it can benefit them in the coming years.

As we start under the first one, under Executive Council of Government House, we all acknowledge the valued work being done by Her Honour and Government House here from a historic point of view but from a cultural point of view but even from a legislative point of view. There's a formal process here that ensures the process is fair, transparent and open, and that the process that has been used for the last number of decades to ensure fair and open government continues to happen as part of the process and the Lieutenant-Governor has an integral part of ensuring that happens here.

So we're very supportive of her operations and not only what she does here for the House of Assembly but her other responsibilities in the general public, being the collaborative support mechanism between the federal and provincial governments and as a representative federally and provincially to the Monarchy. Ironically this Saturday, it'll be another historic event happening in Newfoundland and Labrador and at Government House with the new King, himself, where a Coronation will take place. I'll have the privilege of being part of that ceremony, as will a number of dignitaries in Newfoundland and Labrador, and I look forward to that process.

I can say, fortunately, I wasn't around when the late Queen Elizabeth's Coronation happened. Very few of us were, I think, in this House of Assembly, at the time but we did see the historic impact that she had in the Commonwealth but particularly in Canada and Newfoundland and Labrador. She was well thought of in this province.

I had the honour to meet her on occasion and see the valued work as being part of the Monarchy and no doubt there have already been some conversations about what will be the new role of King Charles, what will be the role of the Monarchy and where do people feel it fits as part of that process. That will be an ongoing conversation over the next period of time, no doubt, but right now we have a process in play that gets to play out in this province by a Newfoundlander and Labradorian who is very distinguished, in her own right, and served the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

I look forward to continuing to do that. But to do that, obviously, there has to be supports for the mechanism and the oversight that she's responsible for which includes, obviously, physical assets as part of that process.

As we go through the lines here, everybody is accountable for the monies being spent and if there are additional monies being spent, we'd like to have clarification so we know it's going to be a benefit to the people of the province and to the operations of Government House in this case here.

I'll start by asking the minister, last year, the Salaries budget went up by $56,000. Could you explain what additional costs were incurred there, please?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

S. COADY: Thank you very much.

Thank you for the important question. I, too, would like to echo my thanks and appreciate to Her Honour. I know Her Honour and His Honour work very, very hard and diligently on behalf of the people of the province. I think she just celebrated here fourth anniversary in the role and really pleased to see all the activities that they are participating in. I, too, will join you on Saturday for the recognition of the King and look forward to that.

I will say there was a slight increase last year in Salaries and that's because we hosted all the viceregal conference in Newfoundland and Labrador. There were some extra costs associated with that. There were extra supports required by Government House.

You can see the budget is rightsized again now for this year, except, of course, there will be a slight – because of the salary increases that are occurring, but it is rightsized again.

CHAIR: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank the minister for that clarification. That obviously outlines where those additional monies were, a one-time improvement or increase in the budget there.

Under Purchased Services, there was an extra $25,500 that went over budget. Can you explain what those additional costs were incurring?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

S. COADY: Thank you.

I erred, Her Honour is there five years; time is passing so quickly.

It's an overrun due to the viceregal conference. As you can appreciate, we had Lieutenant-Governors from all across Canada come to Newfoundland and Labrador. I think it's the first time in quite a while that they've been here. So you'll see a slight increase but you'll see it rightsized again for this year. Again, no increase in budget for this year. It was a slight increase last year only because of the viceregal conference.

CHAIR: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: I thank the minister again for that clarification.

I notice that there were some revenues straight across $20,000 from the federal government. I'm assuming that was as part and parcel of hosting that, but could I just get it on the record for clarification?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

S. COADY: Certainly, that reflects receipt of the federal revenue related to the annual conference of the Governor General, Lieutenant-Governors and territorial commissioners.

CHAIR: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Again, I thank the minister for that clarification.

I just have a couple of things here relevant to what is happening. We saw the announcement last year of a charitable group coming together for the greenhouse for Government House and the grounds. We all see the value of that and see the value of some of the other things that Her Honour has been doing there to engage the community and be self-sufficient and inclusive as part of that.

But there are some questions around how that will work. Could you outline or is the process outlined where I would find the donations being received on this project and the expenses of the project, if it is in Estimates? If it is not in Estimates, which it may not be, where would the financial details of this project be found? Keeping in mind that it is a public entity and we're all accountable as part of that process.

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

S. COADY: Thank you very much.

Government House foundation is a separate charitable foundation and that is managed separately by Government House so questions concerning that would be found in that Government House foundation. It is a charitable foundation.

CHAIR: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: I thank the minister for that and that clarifies that. We will be able to get that information for clarification for ourselves. But we do encourage the support and the work of the foundation, particularly for improving the aesthetic and the inclusive ability for people to be able to use the grounds of Government House, as we'll see again this coming Saturday.

Mr. Chair, from that perspective on the Government House heading, I think right now I'm good on what has been asked right there and we'll go on to the next heading after my colleagues have had a chance to speak to that.

CHAIR: Thank you.

Further questions to 1.1.01, Government House?

Shall 1.1.01, Government House, carry?

All those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

On motion, subhead 1.1.01 carried.

CHAIR: Can I ask the Clerk to call the next set of subheads, please.

CLERK: Office of the Executive Council, 2.1.01 and 2.2.01.

CHAIR: Office of the Executive Council, 2.1.01 to 2.2.01.

The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Again, I have the opportunity for clarification to go through Premier's Office expenses and some of the processes around that.

Under 2.1.01, Transportation and Communications, last year was budgeted at $189,000 but $241,000 was spent. A fairly substantial over budget and this year is it increased to $279,000.

Can you outline exactly what the incurred expenses will be for those increases, please?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

S. COADY: Thank you.

I will say that there are higher than anticipated travel requirements. That's why there was a slight increase in last year's budget. We recognize there are enhanced priorities that require the Premier and his team to represent the province. I'll use things like the trip to Gallipoli, for example, the unveiling of the caribou in Gallipoli; discussions with Ottawa on Muskrat Falls; discussions to raise awareness of concerns from Newfoundland and Labrador. There are representations to, for example, for the film and television program that we're having here in Newfoundland and Labrador.

The Council of the Federation was in British Columbia, so that has a higher than anticipated requirement. There was the New England Governors and Eastern Canadian Premiers conference that was attended this year. I think it's going to be in Newfoundland and Labrador, if memory serves, I think it is.

All I'm saying is there are requirements of the Premier and his team to travel so we've changed the budget to reflect those requirements.

CHAIR: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: Yeah, fair enough.

The new increase, I get the overspending last time because of some additional things as part of that. I'm assuming that the additional monies also take into account additional costing just by the nature of transportation, not just additional events that have to be travelled to, but the additional costing there.

Okay, that clarifies that part.

Under Salaries, last year $2,200,000 was budgeted, nearly $3 million was spent, an extra averaging over $700,000. Could you please explain the additional costing there under the Executive Support, Salaries?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

S. COADY: I think you've moved on to 2.2.01. Are you talking about in the Premier's Office? It was actually below requirements by $65,000, so I think you've moved on.

D. BRAZIL: (Inaudible.)

S. COADY: Do you want me to go to 2.2.01?

D. BRAZIL: Yeah, if you could.

S. COADY: Okay, certainly, happy to do that.

Under Executive Support there were some overages. This is not an unusual thing. We had the Health Transformation team as well as a Change Desk. We were doing an awful lot of transformation within government. Both of those are housed within Executive Council. They're not permanent; they're funded as required. They're funded as required, of course, from financial assistance and we're going to talk about that in a little while. That's coming up as well.

That's why there's an overage there. It is the requirements of the transformation of the Change Desk and the requirements of the Health Transformation team.

CHAIR: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: Fair enough.

For $725,000, how many positions would we be considering there?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

S. COADY: Allow me to get that information as to how many people. I know I can probably count up six or seven, but allow me to get the exact details.

CHAIR: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: Thank you.

Yeah, fair enough.

Under Professional Services, last year $249,300 was spent. Could you please outline what this was for and do you have a breakdown on what particular contracts or programs were supported?

CHAIR: The Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

S. COADY: Thank you very much.

That was mostly for a blind trust reimbursement. So when the former premier completed his term, the unwinding of his blind trust occurred and the majority of that – I think almost all of it – was for the blind trust reimbursement.

D. BRAZIL: Just for his blind trust that was held, okay.

How many years was that held for? Can you remember? Seven? Eight? I'm trying to get a timeline.

CHAIR: The Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

S. COADY: Sorry, I'm just waiting for my light to come on.

Well, he was in government from 2015. So from 2015 until 2020.

CHAIR: The Leader of the Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: So anticipated monies in that heading next year should be substantially lower.

CHAIR: The Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

S. COADY: Correct, and if you look, we have rightsized the budget again. So Professional Services will go back down to, what I'm going to call, the normalized budget of $12,500, which would include things like any professional services that may be required. Sometimes it's not actually utilized, but we do have a placeholder there of $12,500.

CHAIR: The Leader of the Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: Under Purchased Services, can you provide a rationale for why Purchased Services went over budget last year and do you have a breakdown of how the $146,000 was spent last year?

CHAIR: The Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

S. COADY: Thank you very much.

The overrun was due to the replenishment of the Order of Newfoundland and Labrador medals. Also two Premier's Youth Council costs that fall underneath there, as well as the royal visit expenditures. So we had some extraneous expenditures last year. Again, you'll see some better alignment in this year's budget, but those were the expenses that were incurred to increase Professional Services last year.

CHAIR: The Leader of the Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: I thank the minister for the clarification.

Last year in the Estimates discussion we talked about a Change Desk that would be housed in Executive Council. The purpose would be to transform and modernize government.

Could you give me an update on the Change Desk? Specifically I'm wondering what the staffing complement is and what work they have completed over the past year, and can you provide any tangible examples of work they've accomplished that people listening at home may recognize?

CHAIR: The Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

S. COADY: Certainly.

I'm just checking. I understand there are two new hires on the Change Desk. Their role and responsibilities are to assist with the transformations within government that are occurring. As you know, every year for the last two years that I've been bringing down budgets, or bringing budgets through the House of Assembly, even though this is my fourth one – we're only here 2½ years – there have been a lot of transformations.

I'll name a few of them. One of them being, of course, bringing of the health authorities into one Health Authority. I'll name another, which is another one that's very active at the present time, is the bringing of the Newfoundland and Labrador educational school system into the Department of Education.

So their role is to assist across government, because, of course, it touches many departments across government with the development of the policies, communications and the procedures around doing all the transformations that are occurring.

CHAIR: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: So I'm assuming these are like a one-time shot. Once the transitions for those particular two big entities are done, then any notable savings would be directed or noted in the Estimates of those departments the following year? Or, any extra expenditures, depending on –

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

S. COADY: Exactly, they would be within their own departments. The Change Desk itself is housed within Cabinet Secretariat, because it's a whole-of-government exercise. As you can appreciate, there have been a number of transformations that have been announced in multiple budgets now, so their role and responsibility is to assist departments with bringing this through by cross-government review of that.

CHAIR: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: I wanted to take a different spin here. We've talked in this House about the income thresholds for social service programs. For example, the threshold for parental infants' supplement is about $25,000.

Has Cabinet Secretariat or the department of any government done any analysis on the income thresholds for all social programming to ensure that the greatest number of residents is benefiting from it? If money is being left on the table each year, why aren't thresholds being increased?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

S. COADY: So I'm just going to go back, just to make sure I was clear on the Change Desk. There are actually three people – that's what I thought, and then I saw two – were part of the overrun. I mentioned schools, I mentioned the health care, but there's also Marble Mountain, the Newfoundland and Labrador 911 that was brought in. So all of these are part of the responsibilities of the Change Desk.

You asked specifically about issues from the Children, Seniors and Social Development Department, so the analysis would be housed with the Children, Seniors and Social Development Department.

CHAIR: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: If I could just backtrack a bit – I forgot I had it noted there – the Premier's office that was opened in Grand Falls-Windsor, can you give me the breakdown on the staffing component there and the costing to the taxpayers for that office?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

S. COADY: Thank you very much.

As you can see, this is under 2.1.01, just so that people understand where we're following from. In the budget for the Premier's office, it's $1.7 million. There are two positions that are in Central Newfoundland and they would be in that vote. So they would come from the salaries of the Premier's office.

CHAIR: I remind the hon. Member that his speaking time has expired.

Subhead 2.1.01 to 2.2.01 inclusive.

The Member for Labrador West.

J. BROWN: Thank you, Chair.

I ask the minister: How many people are currently employed in the Premier's office, how many positions are vacant and can we get also a description of the roles of those people that are in the Premier's office? You can provide it afterwards; you don't have to say it all out loud if you can't.

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

S. COADY: Thank you very much.

There are currently 18 funded positions: 14 permanent, two temporary and two contractual. As you can appreciate I wouldn't have, at my fingertips, the job descriptions or even a line. I'll attempt to get that for you.

CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

J. BROWN: Thank you so much, Minister.

The visit by former British Prime Minister Tony Blair, was that paid through the Premier's office or if not, what department did pay for that visit?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

S. COADY: Thank you.

I'm getting some details; I have no information that was actually funded through any department. But I will attempt to get further clarity on that. There are no related costs to Tony Blair's visit.

CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

J. BROWN: I appreciate that from the minister, thank you so much.

Those are my final questions for this subhead.

Thank you.

CHAIR: Further questions to 2.1.01 to 2.2.01?

The Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I do have a couple of more questions. The minister had talked about the social program thresholds and that the minister responsible – I don't know if there's a protocol where I can get him to answer the question or we'll have a sidebar somewhere along the way to get clarification on what's happening there, but I think it should be on the books as to what the thresholds and what the formula would be for determining thresholds, particularly in programs that there hasn't been 100 per cent uptake, because the thresholds were either too low for people to qualify.

Obviously if program monies are allocated, it's allocated based on the principle that there's a need for it. If we find out – and this is no slight to anybody – at the end of the day that there's a reason why we couldn't spend it all, and one of it is the threshold, then we need to find a mechanism that addresses that threshold immediately, I would think, because we're losing the money and we're losing the service that obviously the residents of this province need to have.

I'll let the minister respond to that and then I'll have a couple of other questions.

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

S. COADY: Thank you very much.

I think it's an important question and I'm sure you can sidebar with the Minister of Children, Seniors and Social Development concerning same. But I would say to you that across government we're always watching to see the uptake of a program to adjust the budget requirements, to make improvements to the program if they're undersubscribed, or if they're oversubscribed, making changes to budget. So that is, what I'm going to call, a normal process within departments.

I can tell you that in the Department of Finance, should we have a program and it is under or over funded, we make adjustments throughout the year. Sometimes we need to advertise more, make sure people are aware of it or change thresholds to ensure we're maximizing the availability of funds for people.

CHAIR: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: Yeah, I appreciate that, as part of an administration that put out a threshold one time for dentures and we realized the uptake was 300 times more than we realized at the time; then there had to be an adjustment to reflect our financial abilities as part of that. But there has to be moving parts so that people do know where they sit when it comes to access.

Keeping in that frame of mind as we look at thresholds here, do we do a jurisdictional scan to look at what would be appropriate thresholds – and I'll try to associate with Atlantic Canada, our sister provinces would have similar income levels and similar challenges as part of this process when we make a determination rather than just picking a number out of the hat that may or may not be reflective of the needs of the individuals?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

S. COADY: Thank you.

Again, this is kind of a policy question, but I can say to the Member opposite, absolutely there is. I've seen it in every policy that I have ever seen within government; there is usually a very thorough analysis from across the country, not just Atlantic Canada, but usually across the country.

CHAIR: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: No, I appreciate that.

I have one last question. I am jumping back again because I didn't get a chance where I had to move on.

In relationship to the Premier's Office in Central Newfoundland. Is that a permanent statute now in the budget line process, as the Premier had touted that was representation in Central Newfoundland? So will that forever and a day be continued as a line item in the budget itself for staff and the operations of the office?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

S. COADY: There are 18 funded positions within the Premier's Office. He has offices in Western Newfoundland, in Central Newfoundland, I believe in Labrador as well. These are the requirements of the Premier's Office and, as such, are part of those 18 funded positions.

CHAIR: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

S. COADY: Can I just add to that? Positions within the Premier's Office are contractual as you realize. I just wanted to make sure I was clear on that.

D. BRAZIL: I appreciate that. So I'm trying to interpret – I'm going on the understanding, if Labrador has one, if he has one in his district and in Central, that Central will be permanent from now on. My anticipation was when you negotiate next year or the budget lines are put in play, the same amount of monies will be there to offset those additional salary bases in Central Newfoundland also, I am assuming.

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

S. COADY: The Premier's Office and the 18 positions, I would consider it to be that those are the needs of the Premier's Office and therefore they will be continued. The needs of the Premier's Office could change, but I'm just saying I would consider them – they're 18 funded positions. They will make the determinations or what the requirements are, but I would anticipate them to be continued.

D. BRAZIL: No, I appreciate that.

Mr. Chair, I'm good on that.

CHAIR: Thank you.

If the House is ready for the question, shall 2.1.01 to 2.2.01 inclusive carry?

All those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

On motion, 2.1.01 through 2.2.01 carried.

CHAIR: Can I get the Clerk to call the next subhead, please?

CLERK: Office of the Executive Council, 2.3.01.

CHAIR: Office of the Executive Council, 2.3.01.

The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Windsor - Buchans.

C. TIBBS: Thank you very much, Chair.

Under Salaries, the budget for Salaries is being increased to $2.3 million. Could the minister please outline how many more ATIPP coordinators or support staff for ATIPP will be hired this year?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Public Safety.

J. HOGAN: Thank you, Chair.

I'll get to that question in one second. I just want to outline a few things before we start.

As the Member pointed out, it is a $2 million increase for ATIPP with the vast majority of it which is in Salaries there. Just to say at the outset, the first step is to hire an executive team and then put in place a recruitment plan. So it's very much at the early stages here.

What the purpose of this is to streamline the process and to allow us to better use the resources that we have, the increases in resources now after we go through this budget process. What this will look like, will look like some other branches in government. For example, our communications branch, where the coordinators, in this case the ATIPP coordinators, will be embedded throughout the departments but they'll be centrally accountable to one ATIPP office. So that will certainly streamline the process, I think.

The new model will allow our dedicated ATIPP officers, when they're hired, to be dedicated throughout government. Right now, there are some people who have a policy job, for example, and do ATIPP on the side. I don't think that's the most efficient way for people to do jobs.

To answer the question, I don't know the number of people that will be hired, but that's the sort of grassroots plan to move forward with the $2 million increase.

CHAIR: The Member for Grand Falls-Windsor - Buchans.

C. TIBBS: Thank you, Minister, I appreciate it.

Minister, what results do you hope to see by moving ATIPP into Executive Council? What specific results do you wish to see?

CHAIR: The Minister of Justice and Public Safety.

J. HOGAN: So a couple of things I mentioned there already was that I think it will streamline the process, allow individuals who are going to work on ATIPP to be slowly dedicated to that aspect of their job. By streamlining and focusing ATIPP into one single office, we'll also be able to track metrics a little bit better, which will allow whoever is around in the future – whatever minister is responsible for ATIPP – to make decisions based on metrics for ATIPP requests.

We all know that ATIPP goes up year after year in terms of requests, but this will allow us to better track the metrics of it.

CHAIR: The Member for Grand Falls-Windsor - Buchans.

C. TIBBS: Thank you, Minister.

Minister, how many ATIPP coordinators are there now? Of these, how many have been in the positions for less than two years? I know those are pretty specific numbers but if you have them on hand.

CHAIR: The Minister of Justice and Public Safety.

J. HOGAN: Yeah, I don't have those specific numbers but I can get those for the Member.

CHAIR: Thank you.

The Member for Grand Falls-Windsor - Buchans.

C. TIBBS: Thank you, Minister, I appreciate that.

Under Transportation and Communications, the budget for Transportation and Communications is planned to increase by $62,900. Is this reflection of the increase in staffing, Minister?

CHAIR: The Minister of Justice and Public Safety.

J. HOGAN: Partially, but it's also due to a plan to allow these individuals to go out throughout the province to train municipalities. So yes, staff; yes, increased staff; but yes, increased travel for that specific purpose – for training purposes.

CHAIR: The Member for Grand Falls-Windsor - Buchans.

C. TIBBS: Thank you, Minister.

We know how important it is to get to those municipalities so they can jump on board as well.

Under Purchased Services, the budget for Purchased Services is planned to increase by $158,300. Could the minister please explain what the reason is for this?

CHAIR: The Minister of Justice and Public Safety.

J. HOGAN: Same answer as for Transportation and Communications. When they're going out travelling they have to stay somewhere, they have to book rooms, they have to eat. So the big component of that would be for that same purpose.

CHAIR: The Member for Grand Falls-Windsor - Buchans.

C. TIBBS: Thank you, Minister.

Minister, core government posts ATIPP responses publicly, but not all ABCs do. Is there a commitment to post all ATIPP responses publicly including those from Crown corporations, boards and agencies?

CHAIR: The Minister of Justice and Public Safety.

J. HOGAN: They always follow the legislation and, obviously, we have a statutory review of that legislation which is now due to come to the House of Assembly in the very near future. So I think that's something that we can certainly discuss at that time.

CHAIR: The Member for Grand Falls-Windsor - Buchans.

C. TIBBS: Thank you very much, Minister.

I appreciate your answers today. That's all I have.

CHAIR: Thank you.

Further questions to 2.3.01?

I'm recognizing the Member for Labrador West.

J. BROWN: Thank you, Chair.

I actually just have one question on this line. Going forward, with the moving of this into Executive Branch, are there any other activities or anything that's budgeted there that's going to carry out, any changes or something that we should anticipate coming from this now that's being rolled out, or anything that we should be aware of?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Public Safety.

J. HOGAN: No, I have nothing unanticipated other than increased salaries for more people to be dedicated to these ATIPP issues.

CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

J. BROWN: Thank you.

That's my only question for this.

Thank you.

CHAIR: Thank you.

If the House is ready for the question –

J. HOGAN: Mr. Chair.

CHAIR: Sorry, the Minister of Justice and Public Safety.

J. HOGAN: I'm just going to try and answer a question that the Member for Grand Falls-Windsor - Buchans put to me that there are over 40 employees who are related to ATIPP. But they're not necessarily dedicated to ATIPP, so they could have other duties that they have in relation to ATIPP.

CHAIR: Thank you, Minister.

J. HOGAN: Thanks.

CHAIR: If the House is ready for the question, shall 2.3.01 carry?

All those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

On motion, subhead 2.3.01 carried.

CHAIR: I'll get the Clerk to call the next set of subheads, please.

CLERK: Office of the Executive Council, 2.4.01 through 2.6.01 inclusive.

CHAIR: Office of the Executive Council, 2.4.01 to 2.6.01.

I'm recognizing the Leader of the Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Again, as we look at the heading here, particularly under the Communications and Public Engagement process here under Executive Council, very important component here of getting the information out from government to the general public here and being responsible for some of the programs and services that will obviously improve people's lives as part of that.

But I've got some questions here around the amount of money spent in the past to what's being budgeted to be spent in the future, and it seems to be a big variation here and there may be some obviously clear explanations and I expect as such.

Under Professional Services, despite only spending $24,000 last year, the budget for this year is being maintained at $288,000. Could you explain why, and could you please identify what the $24,000 last year, well below the normal budget process, was spent on?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

S. COADY: Thank you very much.

I will say that the normalized amount is $288,500. That's what is normally placed in budget. It's money set aside for any marketing campaigns. If there's something that comes up during the year, that there's a marketing campaign that hasn't been budgeted for within government, across government, then this is where there is money available to do just that.

I'll use an example – not an actual one. I mentioned it the last time we were in Estimates together that we're going to do a public service campaign to attract people to the public service and there might be monies underneath here that might be used for that, just to give you an example. It's a normalized budget that we would put basically a bulk sum of money – it's been going on for many, many years – right here and then if you need to use it, you use it. You can ask us all the questions next year if we used it, what we used it for, how we used it. If it's not used, then it just lapses, and that's what you're seeing here.

The $24,000 is really for media monitoring. That would be probably the normalized amount being spent for that service. But the $288,000, if we need it, it is there to be spent, but not if it's required – because each department would have, again, a sum of money. But if something happens across government and there is a requirement to do a marketing campaign or a public awareness campaign, then that's where the money would come from.

CHAIR: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: Just so I'm clear and for the people at home, these are ones that are not already identified as a promotional campaign or communications strategy but are a backup if something unique happens. If COVID happened again and you had to do a promotional thing, fair enough, just so we know where it is. Okay, I appreciate that.

Under Purchased Services, again, only spent a little over $43,000 last year but the budget is being maintained at $226,000. Could you explain why and could you give me a breakdown on what the $43,000 was for last year, please?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

S. COADY: Again, less than anticipated government-wide initiatives. Much the same as the last answer; didn't need to have the government-wide initiative. There was money in departmental budgets that handled it. Mostly that is also for – Purchased Services, I'm just looking at it – things like shredding, copier rental, media buys, printing activity brochures, any media subscriptions or any event funding that's required. Money has been spent for the post-budget campaigns, for example.

CHAIR: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: Okay, thanks for that clarification.

Obviously we had a fair, open discussion last year and we were all very supportive of the Come Home Year. Because we saw the value in people being upbeat again and Newfoundlanders and Labradorians being able to reunite with their loved ones and to be able to celebrate the cultural and historic significance we have here and people being able to get to see the beauty and all the amenities that we have to offer here.

How much did the Communications Branch spend on the Come Home Year activities last year?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

S. COADY: Thank you, I'll just await for the official to give me a definite response, but I will say that most of that funding would've come through TCAR, through Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation. But I will – oh, absolutely nothing came through this because it would've been budgeted in the department.

CHAIR: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: Probably you're not the appropriate minister to ask now, knowing that the money came there, but do we have any stats to show the success for Come Home Year? I mean we all know there was numbers come of that but, from a financial point of view and a numbers point of view, would that be reflective in your numbers afterwards or the Minister of Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

S. COADY: I would say the post-event review would come through the Department of Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation; I'm sure the minister responsible would be happy to answer that question.

It would flow through the Department of Finance, again only because we would see the uptake in travel, taxation and that type of thing coming through. But I know it was a very successful Come Home Year and a lot of people really thoroughly enjoyed visiting Newfoundland and Labrador and most importantly coming home again.

CHAIR: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: Thank you again, Chair, and thank the minister for that answer.

Would it be possible for us to get a list of the media and communications campaigns carried out, how much the cost and what agencies or companies were contracted for each campaign? I'm curious to determine what are local companies, how we're promoting, the money it cost and what we're using nationally, regionally or internationally to be able to promote the campaigns that we have here of attracting people to and from Newfoundland.

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

S. COADY: Thank you.

I'm just going to reflect a few more thoughts on the Come Home Year campaign. We did have record uptake in the record high levels of people visiting, for example, provincial campgrounds and sites. The Arts and Culture Centres went back to pre-pandemic numbers so we had a tremendous, what I'm going to call, knock-on effect from the Come Home Year.

With regard to the campaigns, it would be across all of government but we'll endeavour to get some information around the campaigns for you.

CHAIR: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: I appreciate that.

I'm going to move on to 2.4.02, Public Engagement, if I could. Last year there was $158,400 unspent in salary budget. Could you please outline if positions were vacant and for how long they were vacant?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

S. COADY: I don't have how long they were vacant for, but I can tell you that there was one vacant position. We have been undergoing recruitment activities, so I think we recruited somebody into that position but then we have somebody else leave. It is on ongoing recruitment process and that is why it was below. So you attract one person and then somebody else leaves. It is not the positions; it is the natural turnover in these areas.

CHAIR: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: Thank you, that clarifies that.

Purchased Services: I'm just curious if you could outline what the $20,000 was spent on.

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

CHAIR: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: That clarifies that.

I'm curious, too, what public engagement activities were held in the last fiscal year?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

S. COADY: A tremendous number and I can tell you there were 67 different types of sessions. We had about 6,500 participants and that would be everything from the new Provincial Health Authority, to Budget 2023 ,to the minimum wage review, to the five-year Roads Plan, to the Animal Health and Protection Act, to the Colonial Building name change, the Crown Lands name nomination process for onshore wind energy, Hurricane Fiona response with residents. There was the Anti-Racism action plan, for example, that had engagement sessions. The Lands Review Act had engagement sessions.

The modernizing the Mining Act and the Mineral Act . I can keep going but I think you get a flavour for the types of engagement that took place.

CHAIR: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: Thank you again, Mr. Chair, I appreciate that.

So I can assume with the engaged process, obviously, there are a number of projects or programs or engaged activities that would take place. Is there a breakdown on the feedback that was received online versus in-person sessions?

I think you mentioned 6,500. Is that in person, was that online or a combination of both? Is there a breakdown on which divisions or which avenue the bigger uptake was on?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

S. COADY: Thank you.

As I said, my numbers only contain both the virtual and in person. I can get you a breakdown of what ones were all online.

There are some savings, if you look under Purchased Services, as we are having increased virtual consultations; people are really engaging. We're getting large numbers engaging online. I guess that's the pandemic world made us very comfortable utilizing some of these types of online processes. So, I think, we're getting more and more people wanting to do the online, but we can get you a breakdown of how many occurred in person and how many sessions were just online.

CHAIR: Thank you.

D. BRAZIL: I appreciate that.

CHAIR: I'm recognizing the Member for Labrador West.

That's 2.4.01 to 2.6.01 inclusive.

J. BROWN: We have no further questions for this section.

Thank you.

CHAIR: 2.4.01 to 2.6.01.

The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have one more question under 2.5.01, Financial Administration. Could you please outline the positions which are held in this line item? I also note that last year there was salary savings of $186,000. Were positions vacant? If so, what positions and for how long?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

S. COADY: This is a challenging area. This is responsible for the financial and operational activities for support of the Executive Council and the Department of Finance, Department of Labrador Affairs and Public Service Commission. They do some tremendous work, including preparing for Estimates and as you've already noted how important that is.

We have had in this area a leave of absence. We've had some active recruitment in this area and we're working on filling but they've been hard-to-fill positions, some of them have been. We also have this one leave of absence, as well.

So we are working on filling those. We need to fill them. I know that active recruitment is ongoing.

CHAIR: Thank you.

S. COADY: I do have some.

D. BRAZIL: Okay.

S. COADY: It's a budget analyst and administration officer and a combo of a financial officer and a budget analyst. Just so you can get that granular – but it's not that we're holding the positions. It's that we're working on filling them and we do have a person on leave.

CHAIR: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: That's good for me on that. I appreciate the openness and the answers on that subhead there.

CHAIR: Thank you.

Is the House ready for the question?

Shall 2.4.01 to 2.6.01 inclusive carry?

All those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

On motion, subheads 2.4.01 through 2.6.01 carried.

CHAIR: I'd like to get the Clerk to call the next set of subheads, please.

CLERK: Office of the Executive Council, 2.7.01 to 2.7.02.

CHAIR: Office of the Executive Council, 2.7.01 to 2.7.02.

The hon. the Member for Harbour Main.

H. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER: Thank you.

First of all, I just have some general questions, if I may.

What work has been done to support the upcoming apology to Newfoundland and Labrador residential school survivors and the families impacted? Do we have a timeline for such an apology? Are there any funds set aside to support an apology?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister Responsible for Indigenous Affairs and Reconciliation.

L. DEMPSTER: Thank you, Chair, and I thank my colleague for the question.

So the commitment to make an apology to residential school survivors by our government is certainly a priority and that work is ongoing. What I will tell you is that with the different groups around the province, we are at different places. So possibly in the near future we may be ready to go with one particular group, but we're continuing to work with the Indigenous governments and organizations as we move forward in that process. A part of that will be identifying, not just an appropriate time frame but an appropriate delivery.

But there are several staff in my office that are working on that file top of mind and sort of being guided and going along in partnership with the Indigenous governments and organizations.

CHAIR: The Member for Harbour Main.

H. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Chair.

I note that last year in Estimates you had indicated that you were in partnership with Indigenous leaders and specifically with respect to supports that would be in place in the community for the inevitable triggers that will occur when these apologies are happening.

So could you please elaborate on what kind of supports that are going to be put in place?

CHAIR: The Minister Responsible for Indigenous Affairs and Reconciliation.

L. DEMPSTER: So that will likely look different for different groups. I know and I have a little bit of experience with this already from having been in Happy Valley-Goose Bay when the prime minister delivered the apology. Even constituents of mine that had been residential school survivors face this trauma and worked for years – and when that apology was made – I'm thinking of a particular individual that had a very difficult time; things that he had suppressed perhaps for 60 years.

So given that knowledge and what we know, a couple of things that we're guided by is the apology has to be meaningful for the people that are being apologized to. That looks different for different governments and organizations, and they will tell us what supports they want in place. We're certainly working with them and we've committed to doing that.

What that looks like, how much money is attached to that, the cost at the end of the day: we've basically made the commitment. They know that our commitment is there to work with them and when they're ready, they will definitely roll out.

I know that it's taking a little bit longer even than we thought, and it seems like we reference COVID a lot of times, but during that whole COVID period, we had governments tell us that we do not want big numbers coming into isolated communities and they have a vision of how they want this to roll out.

Basically, while there was a pause on that, work did continue in terms of relationships and meetings on the files. My latest update from my staff just this week is that, with one particular group, they feel we're just about there and ready to have our first apology happen.

CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Harbour Main.

H. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Minister, that provides clarification.

Last year in Estimates there was discussion about a statue to commemorate Indigenous history in this province. Can you please give us an update on that as well?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister Responsible for Indigenous Affairs and Reconciliation.

L. DEMPSTER: I'm happy to speak to the statue. It does feel like it's been a long haul and I think if we had a dollar for every time we mention the statue in Indigenous Affairs and Reconciliation the past year, we'd probably have it paid for. But, you're right; in 2021 we did commission a statue commemorating the Beothuk.

Morgan MacDonald was the successful artist and we have been working very closely with Morgan, but engaging the Indigenous leaders every step of the way. The regular calls that the Premier and I have with Indigenous leaders, the statue has been a regular on almost every single call. We've discussed at some point the statue, where it's going, where it's going to be placed.

Right now, finally we're at a place – then we were sort of ready to move forward and one of the Indigenous groups wanted to know some detail of the likeness of the remains at The Rooms and could we have the head shapes and things modelled closely to that – all things that took time. I've learned so much myself along this process.

Finally, we are now at a stage where Morgan MacDonald is casting the statue. That's in full progress at the foundry and should be completed within the coming months. I hope that we will be gathering for a little ceremony with our Indigenous partners – I'm probably going to give anxiety to staff if they're watching, but I'm going to say – at some point in the early fall.

CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Harbour Main.

H. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Minister.

I note that in last year's Estimates you had indicated that pretty much every step along the way that you had engaged Indigenous leaders, getting them to provide input, for example, into design when it was still in the clay form. I would expect and the question is that's still ongoing, I would assume, with Indigenous leaders to obtain their input and feedback?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister Responsible for Indigenous Affairs and Reconciliation.

L. DEMPSTER: Absolutely.

CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Harbour Main.

H. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Chair.

Could you also please give an update on the status of the implementation on the Calls to Action from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, please?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister Responsible for Indigenous Affairs and Reconciliation.

L. DEMPSTER: Thank you.

I will start by saying that as a government we remain committed to implementing the Calls to Action from the Truth and Reconciliation that are within the provincial jurisdiction. There are a number of things happening on that front, like just recently – I can't put a time to it – we've been having discussions across departments in government again to continue to identify and review actions taken towards those calls. I'll point to my colleague the Minister of Children, Seniors and Social Development. He would be able to speak as an example to some of the significant work that they are taking.

One of the pieces that are taking a lot of time in my particular shop right now is as we continue to work on in response to Call 57, which was a call to develop a program that everyone in core government would have to take. So I don't mind saying in this hon. House, we started and there was a fair amount of work that went into that. On some of our regular calls that the Premier and I have, we quickly learned that we were not going in the right direction. Scrapped all that and started a new approach; co-development being the operative word. Working very much hand-in-hand with officials across the different Indigenous governments.

I got a new look just recently at the direction that we're going in, and it is such an impressive piece of work. Whether you want to pull up where Nunatsiavut is in their draft work or NunatuKavut, the different governments, it's a very engaging piece of work.

Sometimes we hear, oh, we have to do online training and it sounds boring. But this, I think, will be super educational, educating all of our public servants. Everybody will be in a better place at the end of the day in terms of, moving forward, working with our Indigenous governments and their people and having a more solid understanding of them.

CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Harbour Main.

H. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Minister.

So I understand, even from last year's Estimates, that 33 of the 94 Calls to Action are led under your specific department. I also understand that you look across different departments to measure what's being done. I'm just wondering, in terms of the money allocated in the budget, it was mentioned in last year's Estimates that there's no direct budget allocation. So is that still the case with this year, or is it being housed in different departments across government?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister Responsible for Indigenous Affairs and Reconciliation.

L. DEMPSTER: Thank you, Chair.

So I can't give you a dollar figure. There is work happening across depar