Manitoba Hansard — 17 June 2013 (Sitting 59, 40th Legislature, 2nd Session)

40-2-59

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Second Session - Fortieth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Daryl Reid Speaker Vol. LXV No. 59 - 1:30 p.m., Monday, June 17, 2013 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Fortieth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLAN, Nancy, Hon. St. Vital NDP ALLUM, James Fort Garry-Riverview NDP ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley NDP ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson NDP BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli NDP BLADY, Sharon Kirkfield Park NDP BRAUN, Erna Rossmere NDP BRIESE, Stuart Agassiz PC CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East NDP CHIEF, Kevin, Hon. Point Douglas NDP CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan NDP CROTHERS, Deanne St.

James NDP CULLEN, Cliff Spruce Woods PC DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk NDP DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood PC EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FRIESEN, Cameron Morden-Winkler PC GAUDREAU, Dave St. Norbert NDP GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Liberal GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach PC GRAYDON, Cliff Emerson PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC HOWARD, Jennifer, Hon. Fort Rouge NDP IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri, Hon. Fort Richmond NDP JHA, Bidhu Radisson NDP KOSTYSHYN, Ron, Hon. Swan River NDP LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. Dawson Trail NDP MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St.

Johns NDP MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden PC MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Flor, Hon. Logan NDP MARCELINO, Ted Tyndall Park NDP MELNICK, Christine, Hon. Riel NDP MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East PC NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake NDP OSWALD, Theresa, Hon. Seine River NDP PALLISTER, Brian Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine Midland PC PETTERSEN, Clarence Flin Flon NDP REID, Daryl, Hon. Transcona NDP ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Kewatinook NDP RONDEAU, Jim, Hon. Assiniboia NDP ROWAT, Leanne Riding Mountain PC SARAN, Mohinder The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron St. Paul PC SELBY, Erin, Hon. Southdale NDP SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St.

Boniface NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Verendrye PC STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo PC STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon. Dauphin NDP SWAN, Andrew, Hon. Minto NDP WHITEHEAD, Frank The Pas NDP WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WIGHT, Melanie Burrows NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC Vacant Morris

2395 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Monday, June 17, 2013 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Mr. Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee to frame such laws as may tend to the welfare and prosperity of our province. Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may seek it with wisdom and know it with certainty and accomplish it perfectly for the glory and honour of Thy name and for the welfare of all our people. Amen. Good afternoon, everyone. Please be seated. Point of Order Mr.

Speaker: The honourable member for River Heights, on a point of order? Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): On a point of order. Mr. Speaker: On a point of order. Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order, and the point of order I'm raising is with respect to rule 2(2), recall of House, which states: If the government advises the Speaker that the pu blic interest requires the House to meet at any other time because of an emergency or extraordinary circumstances, the Speaker must advise the members that the House is to meet at the time specified by the government.

The House must begin to meet at the specified time. The rules of this Legislature, including rule 2(2), which were agreed upon by all parties in 2002, included a sessional calendar and provision for emergency sitting if needed. They were created to make it easier for the people in Manitoba to participate in their government. As the government House leader at the time said, and I quote from Hansard, December 4, 2002: "Some of the important aspects of the rules changes included a greater respect for the public." He also said that the change speaks to the need for greater public accommodation.

I raise this point of order to ensure that we achieve what we aimed for in 2002: the greatest possible respect for the people of Manitoba, for we are their servants. My concern is that the government has failed in calling this emergency session to begin today, that it has not been specific about the nature of the emergency or the extraordinary circumstances. This is very important because rule 2(2) is very specific in saying there must be an emergency or extraordinary circumstances. Mr. Speaker, there's a lot going on in the Legislature recently and not everything is an emergency.

A session which is organized in emergency or extraordinary session is different from a regular session or an extension of a regular session, and this has been established in precedent and through past practice. While such precedent may not be a part of the rule specifically, precedent is a very important aspect of our parliamentary system. Mr. Speaker, under the rules adopted on December 22nd, 2002, we've had the Legislature recalled only once for an emergency session, and that was on June 23rd, 2003.

On that occasion, it was made very clear that the government had a requirement to make clear the reason for calling the emergency legislative session. The then -minister of Justice and attorney general said, and I quote from Hansard: "I am directed by His Honour the Lieutenant Governor to inform you that he will not declare the causes of calling this Legislature until a Speaker has been elected in accordance with the law." Now, Mr.

Speaker, the circumstances of the present emergency sitting and the recalling of this Legislature are somewhat different from those which occurred on June 23rd, 2003, but aspects of what occurred for that day are certainly very relevant to today. Before the sitting on June 23rd, the government had clearly communicated to the Liberal caucus of the day and the Conservative caucus of the day the reasons for the emergency recall of the Legislature.

It was speci fically to deal with several items, one of which was an urgent debate on a matter of public importance on the bovine spongiform encephalitis situation, a very urgent, indeed, emergency matter at that time. Furthermore, before that matter was dealt with, two speakers from the government side of the House and both opposition caucus House leaders had an opportunity to speak in the House directly –sorry,

2396 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 17, 2013 that's both opposition caucus leaders, not House leaders, had an opportunity to speak in the House directly on the reasons for the recall of the Legislature. Because of the emergency or extraordinary nature of that sitting, there was a discussion among House leaders as to precisely what would be the essential components of the emergency sitting. And there was unanimous agreement among all parties to proceed with the emergency sitting, because all MLAs realized that there was – were, indeed, extraordinary circumstances on that occasion. Mr.

Speaker, no such process has happened this time. There are also considerab le precedents going back many years for special or emergency sessions in the House of Commons in Ottawa. These have been called for outbreaks of war, exceptional economic conditions, the destruction of railway transportation facilities and severe international events and hostilities. They've been very specific, and the nature of the emergency to be dealt with has been clear. Next, Mr.

Speaker, I want to comment on what precedent has illustrated is not a specific, sufficient requirement for an emergency or extraordinary sitting of the Legislature. First of all, the completion of the budget process, including the Estimates, concurrence and budget - related bills like The Appropriation Act, The Loan Act and The Budget Implementation and Tax Statutes Amendment Act bill, are clearly not emergency matters. In 2003, these matters were completed in the September sitting and bills received royal assent on September 30th of that year.

In 2007, these items were completed in a sitting which lasted through September, Oc tober and November of that year; it was not completed until November the 8th. So clearly the failure to complete the Estimates and a wide variety of other bills is not an emergency. Next, I would like to review what has happened this year. Last week, on T uesday, June 11th, I asked the Premier (Mr. Selinger), and I quote from Hansard: Which bills will he be designating as emergency bills to completed –to be completed during the emergency session expected to start next week?

The Premier replied, and I quote: "All of our bills are priority bills, Mr. Speaker." Clearly, in spite of what the Premier said on Tuesday last week, based on the precedent set in 2003 and 2007, not all bills can be considered emergency bills. Certainly, the majority of bills before this session could wait until our regular sitting time in September to be debated and dealt with. In fact, one might argue that by precedent this could even be the case for all of the bills.

Because I was concerned last week about the nature of the emergency sitting and it didn't seem logical to me that everything is an emergency, I spoke again in question period the following day, Wednesday, June the 12th, saying, and I quote: Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Premier said in terms of the emergency session that he w as putting a priority on all of his bills. Quite frankly, this quote is misleading Manitobans to understand that the impending emergency session, after this Thursday, will continue as if it were just a regular session.

The rules of the Legislature are clear that calling the House outside of the sessional calendar is for emergency or extraordinary circumstances to deal with emergency measures. When will the Premier tell Manitobans – and I asked which bills he considers emergency bills to be completed in the emergency session. And the Premier replied, and I quote: "All the bills we consider to be important, and the budget we consider to be important, Mr.

Speaker." I note the Premier said and –what was important, not what was an emergency, and these are two very different words with different meanings; important and emergency are not the same. * (13:40) I remained concerned that no specific reason, hence no direction for business, had been given for the emergency sitting. And so I asked last week once more, Mr.

Speaker, and I quote: "I ask the Premier to be honest about this, acknowledge that we're going to be in an emergency session and tell us what emergency measures he's going to be dealing with." The Premier replied, and I quote: "We're very eager to carry on the work of the Legislature, both on the budget side and on the bill side." Mr.

Speaker, the remarks of the Premier in response to my questions can only be interpreted to indicate that the Premier was talking about carrying on the regular work of the Le gislature rather than dealing with a specific emergency or extraordinary circumstance in this emergency sitting, which has been called starting today. Mr. Speaker, there are two bills which in my view the government might suggest are emergency bills. And I would like to discuss these two bills as examples of why they should not be considered emergency bills.

June 17, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2397 The first of these is Bill 20, a bill which removes the requirement for a referendum before the PST is raised. This might be considered an emergency if the passage of Bill 20 was necessary before July 1 when the increase in PST comes into effect. The government itself has argued many times in the present legislative session that there is no legal or other requirement that Bill 20 be passed before July 1, however.

Thus, the passage of Bill 20 is not an emergency, and it can be adequately addressed in September or even November, as previous bills have awaited passage in 2003 and 2007. The second bill which might be considered an emergency is Bill 18, the bill which provides for measures to prevent bullying in schools. I believe the government may have even have indicated that it would like Bill 18 to be passed before school opens in the fall.

This might be understandable, but what is not understandable, then, is why the spring session wasn't called earlier or the debate and passage of this bill was not made a priority during the regular spring session. Indeed, Bill 18 has only been presented for second reading debate on three occasions: December 6th last year, May the 6th and June 10th of this year. Even though I, like the Premier, consider this an important bill, his government's actions to date are not consistent with 'priorizing' this bill as an emergency bill.

Thus, I must conclude from the government's own actions to date that they don't consider the passage of Bill 18– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. I regret to interrupt the honourable member for River Heights, but I think he's getting into the debate of the substance of the matter, and I would ask him to provide some clarification to the Chair on what rules or procedures of the House might have been breached. I offer that as guidance to the honourable member for River Heights. Mr. Gerrard: Mr.

Speaker, I am speaking specifically to rule 2(2), the recal l of the House, which states that if the government advises the Speaker that the public interest requires the House to meet at any other time because of an emergency or extraordinary circumstances, the Speaker must advise the members that the House is to m eet at the specified time. We are being recalled today under that clause, 2(2), as the government indicated last week.

And, therefore, let me conclude my remarks specific to that issue, that the government, in using this clause, must demonstrate that there is indeed matters which are of an emergency nature or require extraordinary circumstances. You know, there may be other matters that could be considered an emergency. You know, Kim Edwards is on a hunger strike in front of the Legislature. She's rais ed important issues with respect to Child and Family Services. The government has not shown to date an inclination to deal with these matters, let alone to treat them as emergency matters.

The government needs to specify what matters are emergency matters. Mr. Speaker, I am keen to get the business of the Legislature done. But in order to do so, the business of the Legislature –and to do it well –we have the rules of the Legislature to follow, including rule 2(2), a rule which was designed specifically to enable governments to deal with emergencies.

Under rule 2(2), the sitting can only be called for emergency or extraordinary reasons and to date the government hasn't indicated what matters are emergency matters, and those that the government has mentioned to date, by precedent in this Chamber, are not matters which require an emergency or extraordinary sitting of the Legislature. The Legislature can work most efficiently and most effectively to address the emergency and extraordinary circumstances if the gov ernment makes very clear exactly what is the emergency so those of us in the opposition parties can help deal with this emergency.

As I've indicated, I'm concerned that proper procedure has not been followed with respect to rule 2(2), and if that proper procedure is not followed, we might set a precedent for the abuse or overuse of this rule in the future. There are various options that could be offered to correct the lack of proper procedure. The government could immediately indicate what this emergency sitting is about and define what is an emergency and what is not an emergency. Mr.

Speaker, you could rule that because rule 2(2) has not been followed properly that this sitting cannot occur and the start of any emergency sitting will have to wait until p roper procedure has been followed, or you could rule that the grounds put forward for this sitting don't represent an emergency and the government will have to wait until the normal sitting time in September. Thus, Mr.

Speaker, I would ask you to consider this point of order, this –and to rule that grounds for this emergency or extraordinary sitting have not been provided and that, therefore, recalling of the Legislature is not valid and should be revoked until such time as the government clarifies precisel y what

2398 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 17, 2013 is the emergency or extraordinary circumstances we are to be dealing with in this sitting. Thank you. Hon. Jennifer Howard (Government House Leader): I thank the member for River Heights for his concerns. And I do want to say, in my opinion, in m y view, it is a bit of a misreading of the rule. The rule very clearly, in my mind, states that if the government advises the Speaker that the public interest requires the House to meet at any other time because of an emergency or extraordinary circumstances–and I think he's ignoring several parts of that.

One is the public interest requires it. I think there can be no doubt that the public interest does require for us to meet to deal with issues like the Estimates process, to bring that to a close. I thi nk, currently, I think–believe the member is aware that the government expenditures are running on a special warrant that expires at the end of July, July 31st. Unless we deal with the Estimates or bring in an interim appropriations act, no spending can oc cur after–no spending will likely occur after July 31st.

That could result in all business of the government, all the services provided by government, coming to a halt. Very clearly, the public interest would require that we meet and make sure that that doesn't happen. There is, of course, the possibility that we could pass another special warrant. But generally in parliaments what is required is that there be legislative oversight of spending, and as long as there's a possibility to have that oversight, you want to ensure that there is that oversight.

And so bringing the House back to duly deal with the Estimates process, make sure there's funding available for the programs and services that Manitobans require, certainly is in the public interest. The other part of the rule, I would say, specifies extraordinary circumstances, and we can have lots of time, I suppose, to debate whose fault is whose in terms of how the session unfolds. The reality is that all of us as members of the Legislature bring a responsibility on how the Legislature functions.

I have a responsibility as the House leader to put the business of the government in front of the House, but all members have a role to play in how slowly or quickly that business goes through the House. The member opposite said that we only called Bill 18 three times. That is false. I called Bill 18 –if you look back–it was on the agenda every day last week. That the opposition decided that the other bills were more important to them to debate than Bill 18 is not something that I have any control over. But that bill has been called a number of times.

Clearly, I think the fact that we have not yet completed the business of Estimates, that we have not yet considered, I think, close to 95 per cent of the legislation that's on the books, that is clearly an extraordinary circumstance, Mr. Speaker. I can't recall another time that that has happened, and so I think that is out of the ordinary.

I don't have my –haven't developed my Hansard app yet for my smart phone, but I think if you look back, you will see that the House has been recalled in the recent past after the Throne Speech was introduced and the Throne Speech did not pass in the time allotted and so the House came back to consider that Throne Speech. I beli eve that was done when this rule came into effect. * (13:50) When I look at this rule, I think this rule is in place for exactly this kind of situation.

In our House, we have a situation where although there is a date by which the House rises there is no assurance to the government that the business that the government puts forward will be passed by that time. Without that assurance, the government needs a way to recall the House to ensure that the business of the government comes to a conclusion in some way. So I believe that that's what this rule is in place for.

Every Legislature that I'm aware of has some method to ensure that there's a balance between the right of the opposition to oppose –and to oppose vigorously and to hold the government to account – and the right of the government to get through the business of being government. We could not have a situation, I believe, where there was a date that the House is supposed to rise but no mechanism to ensure that the legislation brought forward or the Estimates process ever concludes. I think what that would result in, frankly, would be chaos, gridlock, and would not serve the public interest well.

So that is why we are back here today and here for the foreseeable future until we can get the business of Manitobans achieved. I believe you have duly and responsibly recalled the House because the government has advised you it is within the public interest, and I believe the situation over the last several weeks do indeed present us with some

June 17, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2399 extraordinary circumstances that warrant the House being recalled. So I think on examination, Mr. Speaker, you will find that there is no point of order here. Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Official Opposition House Leader): Just a few words of comments, not to unnecessarily dela y question period, which I know everybody is looking forward to, Mr. Speaker. First of all, welcome back on this first day of the extraordinary or exceptional session, however one wants to describe it.

We certainly, as Progressive Conservatives, are happy to be here and happy to be here each and every day to defend Manitobans, Mr. Speaker. As we indicated early on in this session, we are going to do everything that we can to ensure that the PST increase from 7 to 8 per cent, Bill 20, does not pass quickly, does not pass easily. We made that promise to Manitobans and, unlike the government, we kept our promise, Mr. Speaker, and we're happy to be here to fight for Manitoba families. I want to make a couple of comments about what the–both the Government House Leader and what the Leader of the Liberal Party said.

First of all, when you look at precedent, there's no doubt that the 2003 precedent on BSE would clearly be an emergency situation. That was an extraordinary situation at the time, and if that is the bar, this certainly doesn't meet the bar. We have a situation here where why we're being called back is the government has failed to manage the House. The government has failed to properly manage this Legislature. Is it an emergency that they haven't been able to manage the Legislature? Well, I suppose you can determine that.

It's certainly not extraordinary that they haven't been able to manage the Legislature, because we've seen that many, many times before, al –this is probably setting a new standar d for mismanagement when it comes to the Legislature this particular session, Mr. Speaker. But I do think that the most germane and important part of the comments from the member for River Heights (Mr. Gerrard) was that this Legislature could have been called back much sooner this spring.

We came back mid -April, and it's difficult, I think, for this government to justify and they can't justify that any bill that they have before the Legislature is an emergency when they themselves didn't decide it was imp ortant enough to come back here before mid-April, Mr. Speaker. We waited patiently for the government to recall the Legislature in the spring. If any of the bills that they considered to be important were as important as they say, they would have called this House back much sooner than mid- April.

So I think the difficult bar for them to pass will be, how can they declare that any of their legislation is an emergency when they themselves decided not to come back to work in this Chamber until mid-April? So clearly they're trying to classify a tax increase as an emergency, the ability to take more money from Manitobans as an emergency. In fact, statistically, when I look at it, when bills were called in this Legislature over the session before the new session or the new sitting that we've started now, Mr.

Speaker, 70 per cent of the times when the government called bills they prioritized Bill 20, the PST tax increase. Seventy per cent of the time when they had a choice to determine what was the most important to call, they called Bill 20, a PST tax increase.

That speaks to the priorities of this government and whether or not it's an emergency to increase the taxes on Manitobans, whether or not it is an extraordinary situation where they need to increase the debt load on Manitoba families who are already struggling, who might have to choose between sports programs, vacations or whether or not they're able to put food on the table. I don't think it's an extraordinary situation to have to increase the taxes on Manitobans.

So I'm disappointed that the government has put themselves in this situation, disappointed that their priority is to take more money from Manitobans, but we are certainly willing to be here each and every day to fight for Manitobans. Mr. Speaker: On the point of order raised by the honourable member for River Heights, I'd like to thank all honourable members for their advice on this point of order, and I have several comments that I'd like to share with the House.

First, in the rule book under which I'm obligated to enforce as the Speaker of the Assembly and also the presiding officer–and I'm going to put this on the record so –under–members understand very clearly what is in rule 2(2). It's under the title recall of the House, 2(2): If the governm ent advises the Speaker that the public interest requires the House to meet at any other time because of an emergency or extraordinary circumstances, the Speaker must advise the House–the members of the House–that the

2400 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 17, 2013 House is to meet at the time specified by the government. The House must begin to meet at the specified time. Last week, I've received information from the government–I believe it was on June the 12th. And early on the morning of June 13th I've –I sent a member personally addressed to every member of this Assembly indicating that, pursuant to rule 2(2), the House is being recalled for Monday, June the 17th, 2013, at 1:30 p.m. The House will sit each day in accordance with the rules, orders and forms of proceedings of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba.

And I circulated that letter to every member of the Assembly. Now, the honourable member for River Heights indicates that the –and I think he is –if I can paraphrase his comments relating to that there has been no emergency demonstrated in the Assembly here. The rules clearly indicate in 2(2) that it's an emergency or extraordinary circumstances. That is not to the Speaker to decide what are emergency or extraordinary circumstances. It is not my role to interpret what that means as specific to the rules.

If members wish to have some modification in the future to that specific rule, then that –I leave that to the House leaders and the various members of the Assembly to make that determination, but it's not my role to interpret what that means specifically. That is left to the government to determine what are considered t o be emergency or extraordinary circumstances.

And I can indicate to the House that on December 10th, 2009, the Speaker, Honourable Speaker Hickes, indicated in the Fourth Session of the 39th Legislature just such a circumstance arose at that period of t ime under much the same case and that the House was recalled and that the Speaker at that time ruled that the member who rose on a point of order did not have a point of order because it was left to the government to determine what would constitute an emer gency or extraordinary circumstances.

So with the greatest of respect, I must indicate to the House that, in my view, that rule 2(2) is left to the determination of the House and therefore the honourable member for River Heights does not have a point of order. Now, proceed with the business of the House. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS Introduction of Guests Mr. Speaker: Prior to petitions, I'm going to vary a little bit from our normal procedure while the students are with us here this afternoon. We have from Daerwood School 41 grades 5 and 6 students under the direction of Terri Wiens.

This group is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Selkirk (Mr. Dewar). On behalf of honourable members, we welcome you here this afternoon. Now, move on with– PETITIONS Provincial Sales Tax Increase–Referendum Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Yes, good afternoon again, Mr. Speaker, and I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And these are the reasons for this petition: The provincial government promised not to raise taxes in the last election.

Through Bill 20, the provincial government wants to increase the retail sales tax, known as the PST, by one point without the legally required referendum. An increase to the PST is excessive taxation that will harm Manitoba families. Bill 20 strips Manitobans of their democratic right to determine when major tax increases are necessary. * (14:00) We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to not raise the PST without holding a provincial referendum. And, Mr. Speaker, this petition is signed by L. Froese, P.N. Froese, G. Friesen and many other Manitobans. Mr.

Speaker: In accordance with our rule 132(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to have been received by the House. Further petitions? Mr. Ian Wishart (Portage la Prairie): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba.

June 17, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2401 And these are the reasons for this petition: The provincial government promised not to raise taxes in the last election. Through Bill 20, the provincial government wants to increase the retail sales tax, known as the PST, by one point without the legally required referendum. An increase to the PST is excessive taxation and will hurt Manitoba families. Bill 20 strips Manitobans of their democratic right to determine when major tax increases are necessary.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to not raise the PST without holding a provincial referendum. This petition is signed by Y. Luo, E. Taylor and L. McLaren and many, many more fine Manitobans. Municipal Amalgamations–Reversal Mrs. Leanne Rowat (Riding Mountain): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. And these are the reasons for this petition: The provincial government recently announced plans to amalgamate any municipality with fewer than 1,000 constituents.

The provincial government did not consult with or notify the affected municipalities of his decision prior to the Throne Speech announced on November 19th, 2012, and has further imposed unrealistic deadlines. If the provincial government imposes amalgamations, local democratic representation will be drastically limited while not providing any real improvements in cost savings. Local governments are further concerned that amalgamation will fail to address the serious issues currently facing municipalities, including an absence of reliable infrastructure funding and timely flood compensation.

Municipalities deserve to be treated with respect. Any amalgamations should be voluntary in nature and led by the municipalities themselves. We petition the Legislative A ssembly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the Minister of Local Government afford local governments the respect they deserve and reserve his decision –or reverse his decision to force amalgamation–or communities –or municipalities with fewer 1,000 constituents to amalgamate. This petition is signed by D. Cook, R. Barett, G. Tibbatts and many, many more Manitobans. Mr.

Blaine Pedersen (Midland): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background of this petition is as follows: The provincial government recently announced plans to amalgamate any municipalities with fewer than 1,000 constituents. The provincial government did not consult with or notify the affected municipalities of this decision prior to the Throne Speech announcement on November 19th, 2012, and has further imposed unrealistic deadlines.

If the provincial government imposes amalgamations, local democratic representation will be drastically limited while not providing any real improvements in cost savings. Local governments are further concerned that amalgamation will fail to address the serious issues currently facing municipalities, including an absence of reliable infrastructure funding and timely flood compensation. Municipalities deserve to be treated with respect. Any amalgamations should be voluntary in nature and be led by the municipalities themselves.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the Minister of Local Government afford local governments the respect they deserve and reverse his decision to force municipalities with fewer than 1,000 constituents to amalgamate. And this petition is signed by J. Wilson, C. Wilson, T. Wilson and many, many more fine Manitobans. Provincial Sales Tax Increase–Referendum Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. These are the reasons for this petition:

2402 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 17, 2013 The provincial government promised not to raise taxes in the last election. Through Bill 20, the provincial government wants to increase the retail sales tax, known as the PST, by one point without the legally required referendum. An increase to the PST is excessive taxation that will harm Manitoba families. Bill 20 strips Manitobans of the democratic right to determine when major tax increases are necessary.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to not raise the PST without holding a provincial referendum. And this is signed by B. Hunter, M. Boisjoli, L. Boisjoli and many others, Mr. Speaker. Municipal Amalgamations–Reversal Mr. Cliff Cullen (Spruce Woods): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) The provinci al government recently announced plans to amalgamate any municipalities with fewer than 1,000 constituents.

(2) The provincial government did not consult with or notify the affected municipalities of this decision prior to the Throne Speech announcement on November 19th, 2012, and has further imposed unrealistic deadlines.

(3) If the provincial government imposes amalgamations, local democratic representation will be drastically limited while not providing any real improvements in cost savings.

(4) Local governments are further concerned that amalgamation will fail to address the serious issues currently facing municipalities, including an absence of reliable infrastructure funding and timely flood compensation.

(5) Municipalities deserve to be treated w ith respect. Any amalgamations should be voluntary in nature and led by the municipalities themselves. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the Minister of Local Government afford local governments the respect they deserve and reverse his decision to force municipalities with fewer than 1,000 constituents to amalgamate. This petition is signed by J. Lalonde, L. Blair, K. Holmes and many other fine Manitobans. Provincial Sales Tax Increase–Referendum Mr. Ralph Eich ler (Lakeside): Good afternoon.

I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. These are the reasons for this petition: The provincial government promised not to raise taxes in the last election. Through Bill 20, the provincial government wants to increase the retail sales tax, known as the PST, by one point without the legally required referendum. An increase to the PST is excessive taxation that will harm Manitoba families. Bill 20 strips Manitobans of their democr atic right to determine when major tax increases are necessary.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government not to raise the PST without holding a provincial referendum. This is submitted on behalf of B. Motkaluk, E. Blahey, B. Noren and many other fine Manitobans. Mrs. Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And these are the reasons for this petition:

(1) The provincial government promised not to raise taxes in the last election.

(2) Through Bill 20, the provincial government wants to increase the retail sales tax, known as the PST, by one point without the legally required referendum.

(3) An increase to the PST is excessive taxation that will harm Manitoba families.

(4) Bill 20 strips Manitobans of their democratic right to determine when major tax increases are necessary. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

June 17, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2403 To urge the provincial government to not raise the PST without holding a provincial referendum. And, Mr. Speaker, this petition is signed by B. Barto, M. Clayton, M. Clayton and many, many other Manitobans. Municipal Amalgamations–Reversal Mr. Larry Maguire (Arthur- Virden): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And the background for this petition is as follows:

(1) The provincial government recently announced plans to amalgamate any municipalities with fewer than 1,000 constituents.

(2) The provincial governme nt did not consult with or notify the affected municipalities of this decision prior to the Throne Speech announcement on November 19th, 2012, and has further imposed unrealistic deadlines.

(3) If the provincial government imposes amalgamations, local dem ocratic representation will be drastically limited while not providing any real improvements in cost savings.

(4) Local governments are further concerned that amalgamation will fail to address the serious issues currently facing municipalities, including an absence of reliable infrastructure funding and timely flood compensation.

(5) Municipalities deserve to be treated with respect. Any amalgamations should be voluntary in nature and led by the municipalities themselves. We petition the Legislative Ass embly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the Minister of Local Government afford local governments the respect they deserve and reverse his decision to force amalgamation–force–pardon me, Mr. Speaker – municipalities with fewer than a thousand constituents to amalgamate. And this petition is signed by K. Hammond, B. Hammond, M. Vercaigne and many, many other Manitobans, Mr. Speaker. * (14:10) Ring Dike Road–Ste. Rose du Lac Mr.

Stuart Briese (Agassiz): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. And these are the reasons for this petition: The Ring Dike Road is a well -used gravel municipal road that is used as a secondary road in and out of the community of Ste. Rose du Lac. Given this heavy pattern of use, the re is strong interest in the community in seeing the Ring Dike Road upgraded to a paved provincial road. It would be most cost -effective to upgrade the Ring Dike Road to a provincial road at the same time that upgrades are being undertaken on the junction of PTH 68 and PTH No. 5.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation to consider upgrading the Ring Dike Road at Ste. Rose du Lac into a provincial road, and (2) to request t he Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation to consider upgrading the Ring Dike Road at the same time that work is being done at the junction of PTH 68 and PTH 5. This petition is signed by J.P. McLaughlin, L. Tardiff, K. Sigurdson and many, many other fine Manitobans. Provincial Sales Tax Increase–Referendum Mrs.

Bonnie Mitchelson (River East): I'd like to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And these are the reasons for this petition: The provincial government promised not to raise taxes in the last election. Through Bill 20, the provincial government wants to increase the retail sales tax, known as the PST, by one point without the legally required referendum. An increase in the PST is excessive taxation that will harm Manitoba families. Bill 20 strips Manitobans of their democratic right to determine when major tax increases are necessary.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

2404 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 17, 2013 To urge the provincial government to not raise the PST without holding a provincial referendum. And this petition is signed by L. Pacheco, K. Murray, S. Poitras and many, many other fine Manitobans. Mr. Reg Helwer (Brandon West): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. These are the reasons for this petition:

(1) The provincial government promised not to raise taxes in the last election.

(2) Through Bill 20, the provincial government wants to increase the retail sales tax, known as the PST, by one point without the legally required referendum.

(3) An increase to the PST is excessive taxation that will harm Manitoba families.

(4) Bill 20 strips Manitobans of their democratic right to determine when major tax increases are necessary. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to not raise the PST without holding a provincial referendum. Signed by D. Yuskov, B. Gauthier and B. Yakel and many other Manitobans. Mr. Ron Schuler (St. Paul): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. And these are the reasons for this petition:

(1) The provincial government promised not to raise taxes in the last election.

(2) Through Bill 20, the provincial government wants to increase th e retail sales tax, known as the PST, by one point without the legally required referendum.

(3) An increase to the PST is excessive taxation that will harm Manitoba families.

(4) Bill 20 strips Manitobans of their democratic right to determine when major tax increases are necessary. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to not raise the PST without holding a provincial referendum. This is signed by C. Derksen, W. Grandmont, J. Goosen and many, many other Manitobans. Mr. Dennis Smook (La Verendrye) : I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. These are the reasons for this petition:

(1) The provincial government promised not to raise taxes in the last election.

(2) T hrough Bill 20, the provincial government wants to increase the retail sales tax, known as the PST, by one point without the legally required referendum.

(3) An increase to the PST is excessive taxation that will harm Manitoba families.

(4) Bill 20 strips Manitobans of their democratic right to determine when major tax increases are necessary. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government not raise the PST without holding a provincial referendum. This petition is signed by A. Stuart, L. Stuart and S. Joynt and many more fine Manitobans. Municipal Amalgamations–Reversal Mr. Cameron Friesen (Morden -Winkler): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And these are the reasons for this petition:

(1) The provincial government recently announced plans to amalgamate any municipalities with fewer than 1,000 constituents.

(2) The provincial government did not consult with or notify the affected municipalities of this decision prior to the Throne Speech announcement on November 19th, 2012, and has further imposed unrealistic deadlines.

(3) If the provincial government imposes amalgamations, local democratic representation would be drastically limited while not providing any real improvements in cost savings.

(4) Local governments are further concerned that amalgamation will fail to address the serious issues currently facing municipalities, including an absence

June 17, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2405 of reliable infrastructure funding and timely flood compensation.

(5) Municipalities deserve to be treated with respect. Any amalgamations should be voluntary in nature and led by the municipalities themselves. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the Minister of Local Government afford local governments the respect they deserve and reverse his decision to force municipalities with fewer than 1,000 constituents to amalgamate. And this petition is signed by T. Hodgson, S. Hodgson, A. Hodgson and many, many others. TABLING OF REPORTS Hon. Andrew Swan (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Mr.

Speaker, I'm pleased to table the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner Annual Review for 2011. Mr. Speaker: Any further tabling of reports? Hon. Erin Selby (Minister of Advanced Education and Literacy): Mr. Speaker, I'm pleased to table the 2013-2014 Departmental Expenditure Estimates for Manitoba Advanced Education and Literacy. Introduction of Guests Mr. Speaker: Prior to oral questions, I'd like to draw the attention of honourable members to the public gallery where we have with us today representatives from the ALS Society of Manitoba, who are the guests of the honourable member for Kirkfield Park (Ms.

Blady). And also seated in the public gallery, we have with us today the co -chair of the Rusalka Ukrainian Dance Ensemble, Hannia Tarasiuk, who are –who is the guest of the honourable member for Burrows (Ms. Wight). On behalf of all honourable members, we welcome you here this afternoon. ORAL QUESTIONS MPI Rate Increase Impact on Manitobans Mr. Brian Pallister (Leader of the Official Opposition): Well, our congratulations to all the many participants and volunteers in this year's Manitoba Marathon, Mr. Speaker. It's a wonderful accomplishment and it takes tremendous discipline.

It takes a willingness to endure a lot of discomfort and pain. And it's something that Manitobans have to do in some respects as well. Every Manitoban is running a marathon in a sense, trying to find money to retire on, trying to find the funds to pay down their mortgage or to save for a child's education, to pay off debts. Marathons are a challenge for all of us, Mr. Speaker. And this government has made it more and more punitive for Manitobans, in the sense of the $1,600 per household additional tax imposition over the last two budgets. They're creating a situation where Manitobans have to run uphill.

And adding insult to injury is now a proposed 2 per cent hike in the Autopac premium, when just two years ago this government issued a vote -buying rebate. So I want to ask the Premier: Does he realize that his mismanageme nt is creating an even more challenging marathon for Manitobans every year? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr. Speaker, and I, too, want to congratulate all the people that participated in the marathon. We had three members of our caucus that ran either the half marathon or the full marathon, the members for Burrows, Minto and Wolseley. The member for Burrows was in at least the top 50.

Some Honourable Members: Point Douglas. Mr. Selinger: Point Douglas–thank you–was at least in the top 50. And so they made an extraordinary effort, and many thousands of Manitobans ran in that race as well. * (14:20) I will say this, that we have passed legislation and reported on it for the first year that our hydroelectricity rates, our home heating costs and our auto insurance costs will be the lowest in Canada, and we've had an independent accounting firm verify that and report it to the Legislature.

And I can confirm that in the first year of that commitment, Manitoba has had the lowest auto insurance rates, the lowest electricity rates and the lowest home heating rates, as a bundle. And the member will know that for 14 of the last 15 years the auto insurance Crown corporation has either held the line or reduced rates. This has resulted in a total rate decrease of 17.8 per cent, Mr. Speaker.

2406 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 17, 2013 Mr. Pallister: And it's the timing that's at issue here. Speaking of times, I want to mention, because the Premier didn't, the member for Point Douglas (Mr. Ch ief), who ran a three -hour and 36-minute marathon, and congratulations to you. That's awesome–awesome. You know, the issue here, in terms of this MPI rate hike, Mr. Speaker, goes beyond the alleged low returns of the Crown corp.

It goes beyond the management issues around the Crown corp., and it speaks to the integrity of the government, a government that ran on not raising taxes and then proceeded to launch plans to double our hydro rates and increase home insurance rates by 7 per cent, proposing to do it by a beer and wine hike, 8 per cent tax on benefits if this bill goes ahead, not to mention this overall damage that's being done to Manitobans' household budgets through a PST hike. Now we have a 2 per cent hike in the MPI rates as well.

Would the gove rnment realize–did they realize when they cut the MPI rate in an election year that they were thinking not of Manitobans? Do they realize that they were thinking of themselves, Mr. Speaker? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, I wouldn't want other people to share the sheer cynicism we're hearing from the Leader of the Opposition. The leader will know –the leader will know that auto insurance rates are set by an independent body called the Public Utilities Board. They review the financials of the Crown corporation and they determine what they consider to be a reasonable rate.

And it was they who decided what the rates will be, as is in this application. This application will be – receive full due diligence from the Public Utilities Board as well as all the interveners who will have the right to make a full presentation, and then they will determine what the rate is. But I can tell you this, Mr. Speaker. In the last election there was only one political party that argued that auto insurance should be privatized in Manitoba, and it was the members of the Progressive Conservative Party.

They wanted to make auto insurance a private business again in Manitoba, which would guarantee the rates would go up dramatically, as we saw when they privatized the telephone system; rates went from the third lowest in the country to the third highest in the country. By keeping it a Crown corporation, along with Manitoba Hydro, we have the lowest home heating, electricity costs and auto insurance costs in the country. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Mr. Pallister: And the highest taxes west of Québec.

You know, it's one–it's a pain for a Manitoban to get their car recalled, but it hurts even worse when it's your rebate that gets recalled, and that's what's happening here. Now, last year, the government jacked up the fee, the $35 registration charge, that went onto every Manitoban's car, and they were going to use it as a slush fund. They raised the taxes on gas, and that's going as an NDP slush fund. And we know now that they're trying to jack up the PST so it can go to an NDP slush fund. Yet last year–or the election year, they proposed a rate hike–a rebate, I'm sorry –election year.

This year they propose a rate hike. Even I get mixed up with this, Mr. Speaker. The reality is that the rebate's sole purpose was to buy votes in an election year. So will the Premier admit that the rate hike this year is to create a slush fund so they can kick a rebate out next pre-election period? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, maintaining univ ersal health care for all Manitobans as opposed to the two- tier system advocated by the Leader of the Opposition is not slush.

When we made cancer drugs available to all Manitobans in our budget, that was a commitment that we made after representations from the Canadian Cancer Society that people experiencing cancer were having trouble finding the resources to have to purchase the essential medications which will allow them to continue to be active members of the community and recover. That is not slush, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, when we have provided an increase to public schools, in contrast to members opposite when they were in government who slashed school funding and laid off over 700 teachers, that is not slush.

That allows young people to get an education and training that will allow them to participate in the labour market. When we announced $250 million to protect the people in the Assiniboine valley, Lake Manitoba–

June 17, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2407 Speaker: Order, please. Order, please. The honourable First Minister's time has expired. MPI Rate Increase Government Intent Mr. Reg Helwer (Brandon West): Well, maybe the Premier's confused, but that shouldn't come as a surprise to us. I don't remember that any of those things are the responsibility of MPI. But, you know, Mr. Speaker, here we have another day, another tax hike from this desperate NDP government.

Last fall the Minister of Justice, now the minister of flip -flop, said there would be a sound business plan from MPI for the proposed infrastructure investment, and now he' s listened to Manitoba and he's nixed that. So after losing $48 million last year, we wonder if he has a sound business plan for MPI at all. Mr. Speaker, how can the minister of flip -flop defend an 1.8 per cent tax grab from Manitobans when just a few months ago he was willing to spend MPI ratepayers' money on infrastructure? Hon.

Andrew Swan (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Act): It's a pleasure to stand and perhaps give the member for Brandon West just a little bit of perspective. It is a fact –and I heard some of the members opposite calling facts are facts. Here is a fact they should chew on. For 14 of the last 15 years Manitoba Public Insurance has held the line or has reduced rates for auto insurance in the province of Manitoba.

And it was since 15 years ago when the Leader of the Opposition wandered away to do something else, since that time rates have dropped 17.8 per cent on average. And, Mr. Speaker, obviously people want auto insurance to be as cheap as possible. To put it in perspective for the member opposite, the increase is about $1.50 per vehicle per month. Even if you have to fill a seven-car– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order, please. The honourable–order, please. Mr. Helwer: Well, MPI made 30 per cent less on its investment last year when the TSX went up over 5 per cent.

Now the minister of flip -flop wants Manitobans to pay for his mistakes with MPI. Manitobans can't afford to bail out this government any more. Mr. Speaker, this minister can't make a profit in a bull market. Why should the PUB reward his mismanagement with a rate hike, another tax increase? Mr. Swan : Let's continue to get just a little bit of perspective on this issue. Overall rates for Manitoba Public Insurance, rates decreased by 4 per cent in 2011.

They decreased by a further 8 per cent in 2012 after the election, which I know the members opposite don't really want to talk about, and, indeed, they remained stable in 2013. Mr. Speaker, we brought in legislation to make sure that Manitobans pay the lowest combined cost for public auto insurance, for home heating and for hydro in the entire country. That's exactly what we said we were going to do. That's exactly what we're doing.

The firm of Deloitte, which is not generally known for being New Democrat sympathizers, has once again confirmed that Manitobans pay the lowest auto insurance cost in the entire country, and that's going to continue, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Helwer: Mr. Speaker, the NDP lied to Manitobans about tax increases, and now we can see that the minister of flip -flop is driving MPI toward another rate increase to pay for NDP mistakes. Why should ratepayers be forced to pick up the tab for NDP mismanagement? Mr. Swan: Let's have a bit more perspective.

This morning I was speaking to grade 9 students at General Wolfe, which is a school in my area in the West End of Winnipeg–and, you know, the average vehicle insurance premium in Manitoba is $900. That's the case even if you've young d rivers in your family like I will very soon; I know many other members on both sides of this House do. That same $900 premium for a family with a young driver would be $3,000 in Calgary with private insurance. That same cost, $7,000 in the city of Toronto for a family with young drivers. * (14:30) You know, Mr. Speaker, I know the members opposite don't like public insurance.

I know they come from this ideological position, they just cannot stand to see public insurance providing better value to Manitobans. I'm on the side of young families. I'm on the side– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order, please. Order.

2408 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 17, 2013 New West Partnership Agreement Manitoba Participation Mrs. Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): Mr. Speaker, how about the family in Saskatchewan that's paying $5,000 less in income taxes? For years now, Mr. Speaker, we've been calling on this NDP government to join the New West Partnership. For years now, the NDP government has refused, forcing Manitoba to fall further behind our neighbours to the west. The Premier has been at the Western Premiers' Conference for the last few days. Mr.

Speaker, I ask him: Why has he refused to put the New West Partnership on the map in these negotiations? Why has he refused to sign that New West Partnership, forcing Manitobans to fall further behind? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr. Speaker, the government of Saskatchewan ranks Manitoba as one of the most affordable places to live in Canada. I can tell you is, actually, 40 years ago –it was 40 years ago that the first Western Premiers' Conference was held here in Manitoba by the premier of the day, Premier Ed Schreyer, with other premiers and northern territorial leaders of the day.

And I can tell you the Western Premiers' Conference is the place where we make very significant policy recommendations to the–for the country, taking them to the Council of the Federation this summer. We talked about a skilled workforce and the need to continue to invest in a skills agenda for young people, whether they live in rural or northern or urban Manitoba. They need that opportunity to get the skills they need for the growing economy we have in Manitoba, one of the best performing economies in Canada over the last five years.

And, indeed, the western economies generally have done very well, and we're collaborating together to even strengthen the ability of western Canada to contribute to the prosperity of the whole country. Mrs. Stefanson: I'm not surprised that Premier Wall is saying good things about Manitoba. This budget that they introduced, Mr. Speaker, is Saskatchewan's economic action plan. Mr. Speaker, Manitoba continues to fall further behind as a result of this government's refusal to join our neighbours in the New West Partnership.

The Premier's refusal to make this a priority in the discussions with the western –with our nest –western neighbours shows that he is content to let Manitoba fall even further behind. My question for the Premier is: Why is he content to let Manitoba fall further behind our western neighbours? Mr. Selinger: Mr.

Speaker, we actually made very significant progress on issues of how to transmit energy to the west; how to make sure that we continue to have access to our energy markets in North America, including Minnesota and Wisconsin; how to move oil out of the –western Canada towards eastern Canada, where they are dependent on Venezuelan oil; how to help diesel communities become less reliant on diesel and look at alternative sources of clean energy; how to ramp up the skills agenda, as I said; how to have a lake-friendly accord to ensure that we stop our lakes from nutrifying in Manitoba; how to continue to further promote international trade in western Canada and, indeed, in the whole country.

The practical things we worked on today will make a big difference for all Manitobans, all western Canadians, and we believe as these policies get adopted by the Council of the Federation, they will indeed make a difference for all Canadians, Mr. Speaker. PST Increase Request to Withdraw Mrs. Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): Mr. Speaker, rather than focus on ways to work with our neighbours, this NDP government has focused its energies in the last little while on how to gouge Manitobans to pay for their spending addiction. Mr.

Speaker, they have refused to join the New West Partnership, which would help our Province and save in some areas of procurement. My question is: Will they do the right thing and reverse their decision, Mr. Speaker, to force an illegal PST hike on hard-working Manitobans? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr. Speaker, the – Manitoba already co -operates with other western provinces on joint procurement; that is already being done. We co- operate on harmonizing our transportation regulations with Saskatchewan and Manitoba. We co -operate with Alberta o n securities regulation.

June 17, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2409 And, as a matter of fact, we all recognize today that the PST in Manitoba remains the third lowest in Canada, and we were one of the few provinces that increased tax deductions for individuals, for spouses and for dependents and i ncreased the amount of money we made available for seniors through the seniors' property tax credit. And we also continue to be acknowledged as the largest tax -free zone in the country for small business taxation: zero, Mr. Speaker.

That's the kind of pr ogress we're making for all Manitobans, in co- operation with the western provinces. Military Envoy Resignation Mr. Cliff Graydon (Emerson): Mr. Speaker, on Friday it was announced that Manitoba's 58th MLA was resigning from her post as the military envoy. The Premier is committed to hiring one of his backbenchers to fill the post. Someone is going to benefit from the MLA patronage plan and taxpayer funded perks. Mr. Speaker, is the member of Kirkfield Park the next, latest recipient of the MLA patriation plan? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr.

Speaker, we've had a valuable relationship with the military of Manitoba. The member –the former member for St. James was a pioneer in that regard. We've worked very closely with military families to make sure they're welcome in this province, that they have access to health -care services, services to support families, ensure –help with ensuring their children have access to recreation programing and labour market and training opportunities. We think that the military plays a very significant role in this province and we want them to know that they are always welcome here.

Many other Provinces now have picked up on this role and also have a liaison person with respect to the military. But I can tell you, not only does the military play a presence in this province every single day, they played a very significant role in the 2011 flood when people came out of Shilo, worked wi th us all along the Assiniboine valley. And the great thing about that experience, Mr. Speaker, not only was the military involved, but Manitobans worked shoulder to shoulder with them to prevent damage all along the Assiniboine valley, and we had– Mr. Spe aker: Order, please. First Minister's time has expired.

Mr. Graydon: Mr. Speaker, the nearly $100,000 could be better spent elsewhere, yet the NDP have set up the MLA patronage plan and the race is on to see who will receive it. The Premier was not in favour of appointing a sitting MLA in the past, but now the patronage plan is in full effect. Mr. Speaker, is the member of St. James the latest recipient of the MLA patronage plan? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, it is true we have made investments in supporting positive relationships and helping Manitoba military families feel welcome, put down roots in Manitoba, and many of them decided to make Manitoba their home.

People in St. James, people in Kirkfield Park have many military families in their presence; they tend to live in those communities. I myself remember growing up with many young military students in the school that I attended in St. James. And I can tell you these people have made a tremendous contribution, not only to Manitoba, not only to our country, but they have made a very valuable contribution around the world. We value that relationship. We will continue to have a military envoy doing liaison work, helping them find practical resources so they can have a good quality of life in Manitoba.

We value that relationship; we're prepared to make some investments in it. It's over 5,000 military personnel in Manitoba. It's a very large number of people working in this province. I only wish the members opposite would support that, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Graydon: Well, Mr. Speaker, the Premier did not have enough faith in his backbenchers before, but now he has to do something. The MLA patronage plan allows him to spend some more money and create an expensive position that the MLAs should be responsible for anyway. On this side of the House, we would take that responsibility. Mr.

Speaker, is the member of Brandon East the latest recipient of the MLA patronage plan? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, again, we think it's important to have resources available t o support military families in Manitoba. And I can tell you, when you visit places like Shilo, I've been in Shilo at some times when all the

2410 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 17, 2013 soldiers were overseas in places like Afghanistan and the family were on their own. The remaining members of the family were on their own for many months by themselves. And unlike days of the past, it's important to support those families. It's important to help those children do well in school. It's important to support the parents who remain in Manitoba to get counselling and other supports they may need and to be able to have relationships with the community, including access to labour markets, including access to health care and family services.

We think those services are important because we think the military is important and we value their role in Manitoba. * (14:40) Legal Proceedings Total Costs Mr. Cliff Cullen (Spruce Woods): We may have to bring the military in to keep an eye on those ministers over there. Mr. Speaker, last week I asked some very straightforward questions about how much the NDP have spent on lawyers in their battle against Assiniboia Downs. I would've thought at least one of the three ministers involved in the legal actions would have had the answer.

Now that the ministers have had a few days to consider the issue, I'd like to ask my question again. How much is the NDP legal bill to date in their battle against Assiniboia Downs? Hon. Stan Struthers (Minister of Finance ): Well, Mr. Speaker, it's very important to remember that we gave a lot of notice to the Manitoba Jockey Club that we were going to do what we said we were going to do. We put it in our –featured it prominently in the budget that we presented right here in this House. We followed through with that. The judge in the case that went to court said we could do that, so that's what we're doing.

We're going to take that $5 million, whether the member for Spruce Woods likes this or not, Mr. Speaker. We're going to take that money from horse racing and gambling in Manitoba and we' re going to redirect that $5 million into health care. We'd much rather have the Manitoba priorities of hospitals over the Manitoba not-so-much a priority on horses. Mr. Cullen: Well, Mr. Speaker, it seems like a fairly simple question, but the NDP keeps skating around the issue. Mr. Speaker, we know the NDP had 12 lawyers in court last Monday. We know they had five lawyers in court on Tuesday.

I realize it might take some time for the NDP to do the math and add it all up, but surely one of the three mini sters that are involved in this should have some idea what the bill is at. Mr. Speaker, how much is the NDP legal bill to date? Mr. Struthers: Again, Mr. Speaker, we've been very clear and very up front for members opposite. We've been very clear with th e Jockey Club. We've been very clear with the people of Manitoba. Our priority is to take the $5 million –it's a reduction, that's true, it's a reduction –and redirect those funds to health care. Mr.

Speaker, we want the Manitoba Jockey Club and we want hor se racing in Manitoba to survive. That's why we want it on a more sustainable footing on a go- forward basis. Private sec –private entities have stepped forward to work with the Jockey Club, most recently the Peguis First Nation. We think that that's a good thing. We welcome that. If they can work together with Peguis to offer horse racing on a– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order, Please. The minister's time has expired. Mr. Cullen : I think the minister is right.

I believe that Manitobans have the right to know how much the NDP are spending to defend their position, especially if we as taxpayers are footing the bill. Mr. Speaker, let me try another angle on the question. Mr. Speaker , will the NDP legal fees be more than the $5 million the NDP expect to take from the VLT players at Assiniboia Downs? Mr. Struthers: I don't understand why the member for Spruce Woods is so against investing in health care, Mr. Speaker. Maybe it's because–maybe he is simply following the lead of the member for Fort Whyte (Mr.

Pallister), who very clearly said that health care is not th eir priority because they would move away from an accessible system like we have, universal, to one that's private, for profit, two-tier. That's not the priorities of Manitobans. Manitoba Hydro Bipole III UNESCO Requirements Mr. Larry Maguire (Arthur- Virden): Well, Mr. Speaker, there'll be a lot more ill Manitobans after that answer.

June 17, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2411 Mr. Speaker, the UNESCO World Heritage Committee recently recommended a deferral of the Pimachiowin Aki nomination pending receipt of more information, an unusual request given the criteria provided before their UNESCO committee meets. Accordingly, it has come to light that the connection of lands east of Lake Winnipeg may not be the best example of boreal ecological area, a UNESCO requirement as there are many such locations worldwide. Did the NDP government not realize this requirement before they supported the UNESCO application? Mr.

Speaker, why were they so negligent? Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Minister of Conservation and Water Stewardship): Well, Mr. Speaker, surely there are some initiatives, some proposals to protect the environment that all Manitobans can join together on. Surely, Manitoba attaining a UNESCO World Heritage Site designation should, without question, rally all members of this House to its support. And t hat decision is now going–and the question comes now, just as that decision is being made by UNESCO, and we hope for a very positive outcome. Mr. Maguire: Well, Mr.

Speaker, the former president of the UNESCO World Heritage Committee, Mr. Collinson –Mr. Ji m Collinson, recently suggested this NDP government use the World Heritage designation, quote, to justify the bewildering beer parlour decision by the Manitoba government to reroute Bipole III down the west side. End quote. Why, then, Mr. Speaker, is the east-side road not considered by the NDP to impact the UNESCO decision when UNESCO's own committee states, quote, none of the land use plans contained any strategies for mitigating the impacts of road construction? End quote. Or was Mr.

Collinson correct that moving Bipole III to the west side was just a plan to justify distracting Manitobans from –attention from the NDP's poor planning? Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Hydro Act ): Mr. Speaker, unlike members opposite, members on this side of the House believe the people in the north ought to have access to fresh food and fresh material on a regular, year-round basis.

And the road –the gravel road network that's being built on existing winter road sites that are rapidly depleting because of something the members opposite don't recognize, which is called climate change. Because of that, these roads that generally run east-west would be put up to provide services to people of that side of the province, because they –the people, who are mostly First Nations in that area of the province, require the same kind of goods, the same kind of services and the same kind of supports that people in southern Manitoba require. And I'm sorry that members opposite do not understand that. Mr.

Maguire: Well, Mr. Speaker, small solace from a minister that doesn't know that oil comes from – doesn't come from mines. When is the NDP government going to admit their UNESCO plan was flawed from the beginning and served as an excuse to put Bipole III down Manitoba's west side? The NDP spent $14 million to justify their poor decision on Bipole III's location. Every day, Manitobans see more examples of the NDP pickpocketing from their futures: more PST, higher taxes, higher auto insurance, Mr. Speaker.

Will the minister admit the NDP has no consistent plans for Manitobans, including the UNESCO nomination for lands on Manitobans' east side? Mr. Mackintosh : Well, I guess we can ask the member, why is it that, just a little while ago, in regard to the bill that came before this House for the UNESCO World Heritage Site, he said, we support this bill going forward?

He says, we support the initiative of the fund, and he says, I know there were concerns expressed around this bill in regards to what if UNESCO, for some reason, didn't provide us with a heritage site on the boreal forest, but it's very apparent that the funds would at least be used–at the very least be used to maintain culture and heritage opportunities in those areas. So is it–there is a big flip-flop in the House, Mr. Speaker; it's from the member opposite who, just a little while ago, stood up and said, this UNESCO– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The minister's time has expired. Order, please. Order, please.

The honourable member for Rive r Heights has the floor.

2412 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 17, 2013 Committee Meetings Government Timeline Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, as MLAs, we are servants of the people and we need to organize our affairs to serve the public. This means organizing committee meetings to avoid the chaos that we've had too often in the past and to

schedule people respectfully. I ask the NDP House leader: What changes is she prepared to make to the organization of committee meetings to ensure all Manitobans are heard in a respectful and timely manner? Hon. Jennifer Howard (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, and I am –I hope that this means the member for River Heights will join us at committees, that he's –actually does now want to be here.

It's amazing progress in 40 minutes. * (14:50) So–but I will say to him I have tried to be open to ideas for different ways to handle the House, and we have certainly put forward a offer that we would see committees only go 'til midnight for a set number of nights, that we would offer Saturday sittings, and if there're other ideas we're open to discuss that. I would say that, in my view, the best way to have a discussion is to have a discussion of all the rules of the House; they all kind of function together, and I'm open to doing that with other House leaders. Mr. Gerrard: Mr.

Speaker, I –with the NDP House leader, to get things better organized, we want to end the chaos that's been at the start of committees. The opposition parties want a realistic

schedule for people who are presenting at our legislative committees. There needs to be more change than the NDP have indicated that they will accept so far. Surely it's time for better organized committee meetings in which people will know ahead of time which date and when they'll be presenting. So I ask the NDP House leader: Will she prepare to

schedule people coming to present to our committee meetings so they know precisely which day they're going to be presenting and what time, to end the chaotic situations that we've often had in the past? Ms. Howard: I don't believe that –I wouldn't characterize our committ ee meetings as chaotic in the way that the member opposite has. I think that I've come to present to those committees, certainly before I was sitting as an MLA. As an MLA, I've sat and listened at those committees, and sometimes in those committees we've h ad very good ideas come forward.

As a minister, as a result of committee presentations, sometimes there's been amendments to bills or new bills that come forward that come from that discussion. I will say to the member, again, I –my mind is open to how we have committees to function better in the House, but that will be part of a discussion of the overall rules of the House. I don't think it serves the House well to change the rules when people have already signed up for committee under one system to change the rules to another system. But– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The minister's time has expired. Mr. Gerrard: Mr.

Speaker, you know, on this side, I am ready and I suspect the House leader for the Conservatives is ready for that discussion if you will put forward a proposal that's more adequate than what you've done so far. You know, we're servants of the public; we need to show Manitobans we can work together to make committees more convenient to the public. The NDP chose not to listen to Manitobans in a referendum, so I now ask the NDP House leader: Will she choose to listen to the people now and

schedule committee meetings where 25 to 30 Manitobans are invited and able to present each evening at committee? Ms. Howard: I think, as I said before, we can have a discussion about the rules of the House. We will have that discussion about all the rules of the House, and I am open to doing that.

I am very pleased to hear that my colleague the member for River Heights now plans to stick around to have that discussion, because at the beginning of the session what we heard from –is that he doesn't even think we should be here in the first place, that the business of the House is not urgent enough for us to be here. But I am open to have that discussion with him. I will reflect, for those that are interested, that in Manitoba we have a unique situation –us and Nova Scotia have this situation where anybody who wants to can come to committees.

That may sometimes look chaotic, but it is a very open system, and it is a system that has evolved with all of the parties signing on to those rules of the House. So we can have a discussion, but–

June 17, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2413 Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The minister's time has expired. Refugee Health Care Government Intent Mr. Rob Altemeyer (Wolseley): Today, over the noon hour, I was very pleased to join well over a hundred fellow concerned Manitobans, including doctors, nurses, medical students, refugees, settlement agencies and concerned citizens, at a rally as part of a national day of action protesting the federal government's cuts to refugee health care in this country.

I also have to take note that the member for Portage la Prairie and–formerly–and with the federal government, now the Opposition House Leader, has called for a two-care health-care system in Manitoba. I would therefore have to ask our Minister of Health: What are the prospects for refugee health care and newcomer health care in Manitoba under that appalling circumstance? Hon. Theresa Oswald (Minister of Health): I want to pay tribute to those individuals that have been advocating on behalf of refugees that have come to Canada.

We know that that group includes families, it includes religious organizations, physicians, nurses and generally concerned citizens who know, as we all should know, that when you make investments in good primary care, you can prevent more serious acute circumstances, which, by the way, Mr. Speaker, are so much more expensive and painful for families. In Manitoba we've committed to cover the cuts that the federal government made to the refugee health program.

We are, of course, going to send the federal Health Minister the bill in hopes that she will turn her eye to a more compassionate way of caring for our refugees. Two-tier health care– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order, please. The minister's time has expired. Keeyask Centre Project Update Mr. Ron Schuler ( St. Paul ): In the TCN consolidated financial statements, $125,000 was spent on furniture and equipment for the Keeyask Centre. Can the NDP member for Kildonan tell us: Where is the furniture that was purchased, as the Keeyask Centre does not exist? Hon.

Dave Chomiak (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Hydro Act) : Mr. Speaker, I'm glad the leader of the Conservative Party let the leash off of the Tea Party member for St. Paul, because I was tired of those same old statements over and over and over again. The member–I've offered to the member to come up and talk to the authority that's responsible for that, Mr. Speaker, that we'll phone that community. They have the responsibility for the funding and the operation of that; I do not have that responsibility.

I don't have any of that responsibility, but I've had more responsibility over Mike Duffy's expenses than I have over that particular funding. I do not have –it's gone to the community. They have control and access to that. If the member wants, if he's really that interested in that community, he ought to talk to that community and determine where and how that funding is used, because they have the responsibility– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The minister's time has expired. Mr. Schuler: Mr. Speaker, $125,000 of Hydro ratepayer money was spent on furniture for the Keeyask Centre, which doesn't exist.

So who has the $125,000 of furniture? Does Hydro have it? Does the minister have it? Can the NDP member for Kildonan tell us: Who has $125,000 worth of furniture? Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, one of the things that I'm very, very proud of is that in the last eight years, Hydro has gone from the number of Aboriginal people hired at Hy dro, 300 some -odd– 300 employees to now tripled to close to a thousand employees are First Nations that are working at Manitoba Hydro.

For us in Manitoba, with the fastest growing demographic being our First Nations, one of our responsibilities is to work with First Nations to bring them up to the standard of living that we take for granted, Mr. Speaker. Part of our role is do–is to provide them with a job, provide them with the opportunities, provide them with the same kind of benefits that we in the south have. That's why I'm so proud of Hydro. That's why I never want to see members opposite go into power and privatize Hydro like they did the telephone system and cut out northern Manitoba–

2414 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 17, 2013 Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The minister's time has expired. The honourable member for St. Paul, with a final supplementary. Mr. Schuler: And, Mr. Speaker, all of those families would like some accountability of where the money went. That's all they're asking for. And on top of that, Hydro ratepayers deserve respect. The ratepayers are now paying 8 per cent more for their hydro this year and demand accountability for that increase. When will the NDP member for Kildonan stand up and be accountable? Where is the $125,000 worth of furniture?

Why will the minister not be accountable and at least stand up for those families that he talks about but won't defend and won't stand up for? Mr. Chomiak: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I'm very proud of the fact that we have the lowest hydroelectric rates in North America. I find it quite tragic the members opposite want to stall Hydro in its tracks, not build Hydro, Mr. Speaker, when we have, as recently as today, the Premier of Saskatchewan –the Premier of Saskatchewan–saying that Saskatchewan wants to buy Manitoba's clean hydro. Minnesota wants to buy our clean hydro. Ontario wants to buy our clean hydro.

And we will have that resource developed not just for Manitobans to have the lowest rates in the country but to provide jobs for First Nations, to provide opportunities First Nations, Mr. Speaker, and not stop Hydro in its tracks and take away from Manitoba economy our future, our resource that we can divide and we can use for all Manitobans to have the lowest rates in the country now and into– * (15:00) Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order, please. The minister's time has expired. Time for oral questions has expired. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Ryan Sherbo Mr. Brian Pallister (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr.

Speaker, Manitoba is home to many talented young people, and they're important. They are our future. They're the future of our province, and through hard work and perseverance it's possible for any of them to become the leaders of tomorrow. And I'd like to recognize our own Ryan Sherbo as one of those young people. As a grade 12 student at St. John's -Ravenscourt, Ryan's learned the art of debating and public speaking. And competing since he was in grade 7, Ryan's claimed this year's No. 1 spot in the National Public Speaking Championships right here in Manitoba.

From March 23rd to April 5th this year, Ryan, accompanied by schoolmate Peirce Dickson, had the chance to –also to attend the World Debating and Public Speaking Championships, this year hosted in Durban, South Africa. This is an annual international English l anguage debating and public speaking competition for high school students who come from all over the globe. The diversity is far reaching. From places like Hong Kong and India –Ryan, they train you on how to endure heckling, don't they?

That's good–and competitors from India and other countries such as Argentina, Germany and Israel, all students must interact and collaborate in competing in four different events: debate, impromptu speaking, persuasive or after -dinner speaking, and interpretive reading. As if this wasn't impressive enough, this wasn't Ryan's first time participating in the international competition. Last year he had the opportunity to attend the Worlds in Brisbane, Australia, where he placed 11th, and he was third in last year's national championships here in Canada.

Ryan's a humble young man who recognizes that without the help from his school and its teachers his accomplishments might not have been possible. And, in fact, as we know here, SJR has an impressive record concerning their public speaking program. For almost 30 years, John Robinson, the teacher and coach in charge of this program, has led 14 individuals–14–right here from Manitoba to win the world championships. No other school in Canada or globally has that kind of impressive record. Mr.

Speaker, Ryan Sherbo's a prime example of these talented young people I referred to before that come from our province and live here, and I would invite everyone in this Chamber to join me in recognizing and congratulating this fine young man for his many accomplishments and wishing him well in all future endeavours. Congratulations. Rusalka 50th Anniversary Ms. Melanie Wight (Burrows): One of the reasons I love Manitoba is our remarkable ethnic diversity. When I think of Manitoba, colourful and l ively

June 17, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2415 Ukrainian dancing comes to mind, perfectly exemplified by the Rusalka Ukrainian Dance Ensemble. Today I am excited to celebrate the 50th anniversary of this legendary cultural institution. A rusalka is a mystical and graceful mermaid-like nymph. Drawing on Slavic folklore for inspiration, the late Peter Hladun assembled a troupe of talented and dedicated young dancers in 1962. Under his direction this homegrown dance company developed into one of the world's most electrifying Ukrainian folk ensembles.

Its rich repertoire encompasses a range of regions, styles and moods fitting any occasion. Rusalka dancers deserve acknowledgement for their high level of professionalism and dedication. Despite full-time studies and demanding professions, they commi t to thousands of hours of rehearsal throughout the year in order to proudly showcase their cultural heritage. In distinctive red boots, floral wreaths and long ribbons of all colours, Rusalka has enchanted audiences on five continents, including royalty and heads of state. Throughout 2013 Rusalka is celebrating its golden anniversary.

Thank you to the alumni association for organizing all the special events. Highlights have included a gala dinner and last weekend's Taras Bulba night featuring local ethno rock band, Zrada. In October festivities will conclude with a concert at the Centennial Concert Hall and next year the association will publish a retrospective book immortalizing Rusalka's first 50 years. I wish them the best of luck with this exciting legacy project. Thank you to everyone at Rusalka for the stunning entertainment you have provided us over these last 50 years.

Having taken your passionate love of Ukrainian- Canadian culture to the world stage, you are extraordinary ambassadors of this great province. In promoting cultural understanding and artistic perfection, you make us proud to be Manitoban. Here's to another 50 years. Dyakuyu and thank you. And I ask leave for –to table the current Rusalka members, please. Thank you. Mr. Speaker: Is there leave of the House to allow the names to appear in Hansard? [Agreed] Rusalka Ukrainian Dance Ensemble Members The Rusalka Board of Directors: Co-chair Hannia Tarasiuk, Co-chair Dr.

Jerry Baluta, Treasurer Fred Mazepa, Technical Director Andrew Popiel, Dancer Chelsea Berezuk, Evelyn Derlago, Ryan Diduck, Ray Honeybun, Patrick Kuzyk, Anne Rusnak, Dr.

Mark Semchyshyn, Wally W elechenko and Felicia Wiltshire Ballet master: Jamie Vargas Dancers: Daniel Anderson, Holly Anderson, Ivanka Babiak, Stefan Baluta, Markian Duplak, Kevin Groot, Devin Harding, Trevor Hemery, Valentyna Kabris, Orycia Karpa, Mikayla Knysh, Leanne Koroscil, Diane Kusko, Kathryn Kuzyk, Stacie Langner, Varya Lapteva, Brittany Lasko, Ivanna Lukie, Sofia Lukie, Lilya Medynska, Caitli n McQuarrie, Patricia Mitchler, Tonisha Privé, Simeon Rusnak, Luke Savard, Nina Semchyshyn, Morgan Shipley, Makar Storoschuk, Antin Stowell, Andriana Tarasiuk, Daria Tkaczyk, Stefan Tkaczyk, Dylan Turchyn, Katelyn Turchyn, Ivanka Waplak, Alanna Wilson, Julie Zabudny, Taras Zaporozan and Zane Zimmerman Icelandic Independence Mrs.

Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): Mr. Speaker, every year since 1944, June 17th has been used to mark Iceland's independence. The 17th was chosen to commemorate this important milestone because it was the birthday of Jon Sigurdsson, who, at the time, was Iceland's prominent leader in the Icelandic independence movement. Every year, the capital city, Reykjavik, is crowded with Icelandic citizens and tourists who partake in parades, dances, concerts and other performances and activities.

Of course, the celebrations would not be complete without the infamous Fjallkonan, the woman of the mountain, who wears the national costume and recites a poem to the crowd. She represents the spirit and nat ure of Iceland and is a symbol of Iceland's independence. Once the ceremonies and activities are concluded in the capital, almost every other town and village in the country will also host their own local celebrations. In Manitoba, the August long weekend makes–marks a celebration of Icelanders who settled in Manitoba. The festival is known as Islendingadagurinn. Mr.

Speaker, this day holds a special place in the hearts of many Manitobans because Manitoba is home to what is known to be New Iceland. Land was allocated by the Canadian Government for an

2416 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 17, 2013 Icelandic settlement located on the west shore of Lake Winnipeg. The first group of 235 settlers arrived in the Gimli area on October 21st, 1875, and for the next 22 years immigration was almost exclusively from Iceland. Mr. Speaker, the Gimli of today has grown significantly to 5,845 residents in an important economic zone and essential provider of services for people in the area. Mr.

Speaker, I invite all the members of this Legislature to join me in celeb rating Iceland's independence day and in recognizing the importance it may have for many New Icelanders and the strong links which exist between our province and this northern island nation. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Flin Flon Artists Mr. Clarence Pettersen (Flin Flon): Mr. Speaker, Flin Flon is a city that encourages creative expression and the arts. The city is filled with talented storytellers, whether they are actors, musicians, MLAs, writers or visual artists.

Today I would like to recogni ze some of those Flin Flon natives who are following their dreams in the arts. For Jared Abrahamson, this dream has led him to the big screen. Since moving to Vancouver in 2010 to pursue acting, Jared has earned roles in a number of films including Finding a Family, Possessing Piper Rose, Diary of a Wimpy Kid–and Dog Days, among others. Darren Crone has a passion and skill for songwriting. Darren's song, Beautiful Crazy Life, which was formed by country musician Quentin Reddy, made it to the finals of the country musical television show Big in a Small Town.

The song and accompanying video have made its way into the hearts of many throughout the country. Mark Rowe has found success in many careers, from photography to painting, decorating and construction work. He has recently made a name for himself as a songwriter after winning the American Songwriter Lyric Contest for his poetic song, I Know How the World's Gonna End. Dustin McKenzie's artistic skill is computer - generated imagery –CGI–animation.

During his career with the Canadian company Nerd corporation entertainment, Dustin has worked in many TV and film series as an animator, animation supervisor, and has worked his way up to becoming a director. Penny Gummerson, the scriptwriter for CBC's hit Arctic Air, is also a Flin Flon native. After penning her award- winning play Wawatay, which means northern lights in Cree, her storytelling skills have flourished and made Penny a successful television scriptwriter. Mr.

Speaker, successful people do not achieve in isolation, so it is an important–also note the incredible friends and families who have supported this group of talented people. These artists are a testament to the determination and integrity and aptitude for an entire community and are helping out Flin Flon –put Flin Flon on the map as a place of creative and artistic innovation. Let's continue to make our city's talent in the arts known throughout North America. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. * (15:10) ALS Awareness Month Mr. Dave Gaudreau (St. Norb ert): Mr. Speaker, June marks ALS Awareness Month.

ALS is a rapid, fatal neuromuscular disease that affects the brain and leads to eventual paralysis and death. Approximately 3,000 Canadians and over 260 Manitobans are affected by this disease for there is no known cure. The ALS Society of Manitoba offers several programs to support those living with ALS, their families and their caregivers. Executive Director Diana Rasmussen and her dedicated team of staff provide direct care, counselling, education, equipment, advocacy and information for clients and their families. They raise funds to support client services and ALS research.

They also promote awareness, education and understanding of ALS to the general public, medical professionals and caregivers. This June, people across Canada are participating in ALS Awareness Month. In Manitoba, the ALS Society held its Walk for ALS on June 1st. The event raised funds going towards research, as well as towards the ALS Society of Manitoba support program. The membe rs for Kirkfield Park and Assiniboia attended the five-kilometre walk in Assiniboine Park, a beautiful family-friendly event that included music and face painting. It gave a lift of hope so needed by those living with ALS.

This week, the ALS Society of Manitoba and the Winnipeg Goldeyes are hosting ALS -Lou Gehrig's

June 17, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2417 Night at memory –in memory of the baseball player Lou Gehrig, whose name has become synonymous with ALS. Lou Gehrig's famous farewell speech will be read at centre field before the game and volunteers will be collecting donations to support the ALS Society of Manitoba's important work. I encourage all honourable members and all Manitobans to help support people coping with ALS. Mr. Speaker, many of us don't realize how lucky we are to be in good health until we lose that privilege.

I would like to commend the ALS Society of Manitoba for their mission of hope, to help our people every way they can and their dedication to those living with ALS. Thank you for making moments matter. Mr. Speaker: Prior to calling grievances, I want to indicate for the House that I may have misspoke my House when I was making my ruling on the point of order at the start of today's proceedings.

And because I haven't had a chance to review Hansard, I want to ensure that the record accurately reflects that it is up to the government to determine what emergency or extraordinary circumstances for the recalling of the House. I just want the record to reflect that. Now, we'll call grievances. Any grievances? Seeing none– ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS Hon. Jennifer Howard (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, would you please resolve into Committee of Supply. Mr. Speaker: We'll now resolve into the Committee of Supply. Mr. Deputy Speaker, please take the Chair.

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) HEALTH * (15:20) Mr. Chairperson (Mohinder Saran): Order. Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now resume consideration of the Estimates for the Departme nt of Health. As had been previously agreed, questions for this department will proceed in a global manner. The floor is now open for questions. Mr. Dennis Smook (La Verendrye) : Mr. Chair, I have a couple questions here for the Minister of Health in regards to the Southern RHA. I would like to know, what is the current doctor vacancy rate in the Southern RHA, and that would include, like, the temporarily closed–ERs that are temporarily closed.

Now, what would it take for doctors to reopen the ERs that we presently have that are closed? Hon. T heresa Oswald (Minister of Health): I thank the member for the question. I would have to have my officials seek the exact information that he's asking for, but I will endeavour to get that back to him as soon as possible. More broadly speaking, and I know that the member is keenly interested in the reopening of the emergency room in Vita, but certainly he wants all facilities to be functioning on all cylinders, I can surmise.

And I can tell him that, certainly, there have been a number of discussions between the regional health authority and the community, and a lot of work is going on to continue to recruit doctors to the Vita community as well as looking for what options may be available to have the emergency ro om functioning in ways that are innovative.

We know that we have seen, through the Council of the Federation's subcommittee on health innovation–the working group–some models coming out of Nova Scotia called collaborative emergency centres, CECs, as they have been known in the media, that are being led by other professionals. In Nova Scotia, for example, they are led by paramedics and have been extremely successful in providing an increased level of care for members of communities as opposed to–as a resul t of physician shortage having an emergency room closed outright.

Now, there have been some discussions with the community about becoming a pilot test site as an interim measure for such a model. We know that we want to pilot this model here in Manitoba. Saskatchewan has expressed an interest also, as have a number of jurisdictions as a result of our discussions at the Health Innovation Working Group. So whether or not Vita will be a great candidate for that particular model, you know, with a view to, you know, augmenting service and, indeed, fully restoring emergency room service is still very much preliminary and under discussion.

But we know that the community of Vita has expressed a keen interest and enthusiasm and openness to looking at in what

2418 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 17, 2013 ways we might be able to augment service in what has been, you know, a rather difficult to recruit into area, as is the case across Canada, of course, in the case of rural and northern environments. I can also inform the member specifically concerning Vita, that the regional health authority has been very aggressive and imaginative in securing–well, the puck isn't in the net yet, but I feel very hopeful–a brand new nurse practitioner for the community which will also provide even more care.

Now, as I say, there isn't a signature on the dotted line as of yet, but the regional health authority and the person in question are in very positive talks about this as well. So, in

summary, I would say to the member that we need to ensure, for a fully functioning emergency room, that there is a complement of physician services and complement of physicians for on call that allows for that emergency room to function 24-7, and certainly that is our goal in partnership with the region. But I also want him to know that the community itself and the region have been working very collaboratively and co -operatively to look at how we can build the human infrastructure to have the kind of care there that the community members want. There's a lot of work going on.

I know the member cares about this and I want to assure him that the work will not stop until we can get to a place where these services are where they need to be. On the broader question about vacancies; I'll have my staff check with the region and report back to the member. Mr. Smook: Since you're going to be doing a little bit of research, would it be possible to get like, say four years ago, what the number of doctors –total number of doctors would've been in the Southern RHA? Like I know there's been an amalgamation, but I guess you can combine the two of them.

Like – and compared to today, are we that many doctors short in the whole area? If you're doing any rese arch I'd appreciate that, and also if the minister could explain a little bit–or elaborate a little bit more on the CEC. You know, what exactly it entails? Ms. Oswald: Certainly I can have my staff work on providing some information for the member about communities in the Southern region. What I can say generally though is that we have worked very hard on doctor recruitment and retention, and we have been able to see a net increase every year since being in office, since '99.

And overall, an increase of d octors over 500 across Manitoba, over a 100 of which are in rural Manitoba, and we know in a number of the major centres across rural Manitoba we've seen substantial increases in the number of doctors from smaller community to smaller community. We know that doctors may ebb and flow depending on their circumstances. Our decision to really work hard to augment incentives for doctors to practise in rural and northern Manitoba does show that we are bearing fruit in that regard.

The rural and northern residency program has been an area at the Faculty of Medicine that has been very enthusiastically subscribed to. I believe it's been full– oversubscribed each year that it has been available. I may stand to be corrected on that but I believe that's true.

I can also say that our decision to provide augmented incentives, not just to physicians that are– or students that are studying in their third and in their fourth year, but also extending those incentives to first- and second-year medical students has helped us in this regard, and, of course, our most recent decision, just a couple of years ago, to in earnest, offer free medical school for those individuals that are willing to commit to serve in underserved communities is also most definitely bearing fruit. * (15:30) We are seeing the retention of our students from medical school increase each year, which we view as a good thing, of course.

But I will concede to the member that when we find ourselves in a situation like we see in Vita, where we don't have the complement of doctors that we wish to have, then, of course, we know that we have to continue to work hard. And, certainly, as stated in –certainly, we have stated before that we don't want to make the decision that other jurisdictions have made. Those, perhaps, with a single -minded focus on efficiency, looking at cost and looking at how truly challenging it is to recruit into smaller environments.

Those jurisdictions have decided to close rural hospitals outright, and I know that citizens of our province and representatives from the AMM, and, indeed, representatives from your caucus, have been very clear about the fact that having a strong health- care facility is important to the town as a whole. And we take that to heart. So we're going to continue to work at that. The member asked me about providing some historical information about vacancies in the region, and we

June 17, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2419 can work to do that. Frankly, I thought I had it at my fingertips and don't seem to, but I will get it for him. Also, I can say to the member that, again, the Health Innovation Working Group, that is to say, the health ministers across Canada, being led by two of our premiers, Premiers Wall and Ghiz, have explored a number of models that have shown to be very successful in different environments across the nation. I know that Manitoba has put forward some ideas, as have other jurisdictions.

And one coming out of Nova Scotia was the collaborative emergency centre, which is a paramedic- led health care environment to serve in emergency situations. And, indeed, it's a model that we are looking closely at to see if it could work in a Manitoba context, which is admittedly quite different from the Nova Scotia context in a number of ways.

I know that the premier of–or the Province of Saskatchewan is also looking very closely at the model, and we're learning from these projects elsewhere to see what kinds of innovations can provide the kind of care that people want to have in urgent and emergency situations and what can work with the workforce that we have developing here in Manitoba. So this is something that we're looking at right now.

And, again, we haven't signed anything in ink just yet, but we are, you know, looking and working with the community to see if there would be an interest for an innov ative model that might augment services to the community that are existing there presently. Mr. Smook : Question: You had mentioned, like, helping students out that are willing to practise in rural areas, and you also mentioned nurse practitioners. Is the help available just for physicians, or is there any incentive for, say, nurse practitioners or assistant physicians, or –what is the program involving that? Ms.

Oswald: Yes, I thank the member for the question. Our commitment a couple of years ago specifically was for doctors. We, during the election, made a commitment to offer a free tuition -type model for nurse practitioners as well, and that model is being worked up with our department. So we are looking at the different ways that we can provide opportunities for smaller rural communities to ensure that they have a chance to have the benefit of services from a variety of members of our workforce.

There's also something that has been in existence, I believe, since '99 or shortly thereafter –in its curren t form, that is –called the nursing recruitment and retention fund, which can help nurses relocate and perhaps receive augmented training so that they can serve communities that may or may not have that capacity existing. So we are looking at ways of broade ning the support that we offer to different members of our workforce to try to enhance their ability to work in environments that haven't seen those professionals before, as a rule. Mr.

Ca meron Friesen (Morden -Winkler): I was just going to thank the minister for the answers. If the minister had answers that were able to be supplied at this time pertaining to questions that were posed in previous sessions of the Estimates, I would invite her to table that information at this time. Ms. Oswald: I can follo w up on with the member regarding a question that he asked me during our discussion of STARS, the –I believe it was the last time we met. I can confirm for the member that in the first year the actual amount fundraised by STARS was $177,000.

Certainly, as stated, it's a modest amount compared to a $2 -million target that was set. We certainly did hope that there could be more that would come in from the fundraising efforts, but our focus with STARS, of course, was getting the program up and running, ensuring that our system was prepared to receive the STARS helicopter whenever it was needed and to ensure that they were functioning in a seamless manner across Manitoba. Again, I believe it was the member that made mention of the STARS fundraising brochure that he had received for their lottery.

So, indeed, I don't have to explain to him the aggressive efforts that are going on now for STARS to meet, and we would even be delighted to have them exceed their fundraising target of $2 million. We have confidence t hat they will be able to do this, as evidenced by the work that they have done in other jurisdictions. And, once again, you know, 557 missions flown, 357 patient transports later, we commend them for the work that they are endeavoring to do. We wish them well and we certainly look forward to them meeting their $2-million fundraising target. Mr.

Friesen: I thank the minister for supplying that information. I hadn't intended to dwell here, but I thank her for submitting that number. I can imagine the minis ter is very disappointed to learn that the

2420 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 17, 2013 amount fundraised by STARS is so much less than the targeted amount, not even one tenth of what it was intended to get to. And I guess I would ask the minister, based on this very disappointing information, while she says she has hope that STARS can still meet its obligation in fundraising for this coming year, does she actually have an expectation that STARS can, indeed, do so? Ms. Oswald: Yes, I do. Mr. Friesen: And I would ask the minister, on what is that expectation founded? Ms.

Oswald: I am basing it on, really, the evidence that the member himself has put on the record, and that is the fact that STARS is taking a much more aggressive approach. They are, indeed, more established now. Manitobans, aside from those that had the great benefit of receiving their services during the floods of '09 and 2011, didn't know very much about STARS. In fact, the vast majority would never have heard of them.

There had been no helicopter ambulance service available in the province of Manitoba historically, but there has been much more education and awareness particularly in our rural communities to understand what it is that STARS can and will do. STARS themselves has endeavored in –to secure some corporate sponsors, has put out this lottery. They are working very, very aggressively, and the fact of the matter is they've made a commitment to us. They weren't able to reach that commitment in the first year, but it's not my inclination to hold this against them, as it were.

They're doing lots of outreach in communities and they have been very successful in other provinces with their fundraising and there is no reason to believe that they won 't be able to meet that target. * (15:40) So I have faith in them. I hope the member will join me in encouraging them to meet that goal. I know that they can become as much a part of the Manitoba landscape as they have in the other provinces in which they have functioned, and I have no reason to believe otherwise. Mr. Friesen: I may have neglected to ask–and I will, of course, be going back to the Estimates from Thursday's session.

So if this is a repeat I beg forgiveness, but I wanted to ask whether–because the minister has consented that the size of the contract with STARS has indeed increased. We last week established that the new amount for STARS is somewhere in the neighbourhood of $12 million or $12.8 million. So then, is there a resulting increas e in the amount of STARS fundraising target to account for that additional money?

Somewhere in the neighbourhood of –would there be an increase of another $250,000 that the minister would want to see STARS fundraise to account for the increase in the scope of operations that the minister has in contract with STARS? Ms. Oswald: I just wanted to let the member know that our target last year and our target this year and for the foreseeable future will indeed be $2 million for fundraising.

But as I said to the member that should STARS indeed exceed $2 million as part of their fundraising efforts, which is conceivable [interjection]–it seems to me the dark cloud across from me thinks not–but, indeed, if they do, as they've done in other jurisdictions –[interjection]–no, I was talking about him –then, in fact, they may in fact exceed that, that those monies, indeed, do stay in Manitoba, as has been reflected in the past. So, again, at least this side of the House will continue to encourage STARS to work on their fundraising campaign and secure their corporate donors, and we wish them the best. Mr.

Friesen: Yes, the member's optimism is noted, but, of course, I know that she must share that tremendous disappointment to see a $2- million fundraised target come in at $ 177,000. So we certainly wish STARS all the best as they fundraise, and we'll all try to do our part and buy those calendars and do what we can to support that colossal effort to raise that money. I have a question pertaining to something we discussed jus t before the close of Estimates on the day–I guess, on our last day when we met in Estimates. I had just been in the context of asking a question about the interchangeability formulary.

In particular, I was referring to the Manitoba drug benefits and inter changeable formulary bulletin archive, referring to the fact that Manitoba seems to have one of longest wait periods for drugs to get into Pharmacare of any Canadian jurisdiction. I was wondering if the minister could comment on why it is that we find, i f I simply do a little bit of comparison, in 2011 there was only one bulletin update in Manitoba, at the same time in Saskatchewan there were four, and in Nova Scotia there were three. In 2012, there were three bulletin

June 17, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2421 updates plus one amendment in Manitoba. But in Saskatchewan there were eight. I know the minister understands that is very, very important to continue to approve drugs for Manitoba; when we approve generics it brings the cost down, when we approve brand name products it makes new products available for Manitobans. We understand that these products have already been approved for use in Canada.

So I–what I want to ask the minister: Why would Manitoba still continue to lag behind other jurisdictions in terms of putting every effort into getting drugs approved and the bulletins updated on a timely basis? And if I could add one other it would be, will this trend change in the future, will–is she committing to have more bulletin archives published? Ms. Oswald: Yes, thank you very much, Mr. Chair , and I would say to the member that indeed there was only one bulletin in 2011.

There were some processes we were going through in terms of implementing utilization management agreements or contracts, if you will, for lack of a better term. We agree that more frequent bulletins are appropriate and the department has, in fact, agreed to, with our drug manufacturers, to commit to bulletins coming out quarterly if not more frequently, but certainly quarterly. We did see three bulletins posted last year. We've done two already this year; I signed another this morning which will come into effect in 30 days.

We know that when there's a new brand name drug that isn't available in any way we move as quickly as we can. We know when it's a generic alternative we want to ensure it is available quickly. But we also want to ensure that we are getting competitive pricing, which isn't always –it doesn't always evolve in the same way for a province the size of Manitoba compared to, say, Ontario. There were times in the past when former health critics would demand a drug be listed to a –present company excluded–would demand that we added a generic drug to the formulary.

For example, there was a drug called Ramipril, for example. If we had listed it when the opposition members were demanding it would have, in fact, been cheaper than the brand name drug that the members were citing. But we continued to negotiate and got an even better deal for Manitobans. Our work that is being done on pricing policies are ensuring that we're getting competitive drug prices much sooner.

Certainly, we have seen over time that members opposite have tried to demand that we list something immediately, whether it's advocacy that's coming from an individual patient or advocacy that's coming from a pharmaceutical company. There was a drug, I think, back in '07 called Altace I believe is the pronunciation, that members opposite were in a hue and cry that we list immediately. If we had done it when the members opposite demanded that we did it, it would have been a $1 million per year extra price tag. And that's just for one drug.

So we really need to work hard to strike that balance between getting new drugs listed as swiftly as possible. And I agree; one bulletin in a year is not where we want to be; quarterly bulletins at minimum better, more predictable. And in partnership with the Manitoba Society of Pharmacists we know that we work very hard to ensure that they are ready when new bulletins come. We have a 30 -day notice period that we give to pharma cies so they can prepare.

Other jurisdictions sometimes don't do this and this causes significant problems in terms of pharmacies being able to deliver on what it is that the government has listed. So we really work hard to strike a balance to ensure that our workforce can react to what's being listed and to ensure that we are as aggressively as possible negotiating the best price for Manitobans so that we don't take the first price that's offered to us. So I hear what the members saying but I would argue that those negotiations are critically important in saving resources that enable us to list even more drugs as we go forward. Mr.

Friesen: Understanding that, we have an opportunity subsequently to revisit some of these themes and discuss again at concur rence, I would be willing to proceed to the consideration of the Estimates at this time. * (1

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	40-2-59
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	40th 2nd hansardpdf 59.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	8521765bb2dcbc54e3684857bb0552ce1406a48b

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