British Columbia Hansard — Wednesday, April 26, 2006

H0426pm-10

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Second Session, 38th Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY (HANSARD) Wednesday, April 26, 2006 Afternoon Sitting Volume 9, Number 10 THE HONOURABLE BILL BARISOFF, SPEAKER ISSN 0709-1281

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Iona V. Campagnolo, CM, OBC SECOND SESSION, 38TH PARLIAMENT SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Bill Barisoff EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................Hon. Gordon Campbell Minister of State for Intergovernmental Relations .......................................................................................................... Hon.

John van Dongen Deputy Premier and Minister of Education and Minister Responsible for Early Learning and Literacy...................... Hon. Shirley Bond Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation .......................................................................................................Hon. Tom Christensen Minister of Advanced Education and Minister Responsible for Research and Technology ........................................... Hon.

Murray Coell Minister of Agriculture and Lands.......................................................................................................................................................Hon. Pat Bell Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Multiculturalism............................................................................... Hon. Wally Oppal, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ..........................................................................................................................Hon.

Stan Hagen Minister of State for Childcare ........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Linda Reid Minister of Community Services and Minister Responsible for Seniors’ and Women’s Issues........................................... Hon. Ida Chong Minister of Economic Development and Minister Responsible for the Asia-Pacific Initiative and the Olympics.................Hon.

Colin Hansen Minister of Employment and Income Assistance ...........................................................................................................Hon. Claude Richmond Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources .......................................................................................................Hon. Richard Neufeld Minister of State for Mining............................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Bill Bennett Minister of Environment and Minister Responsible for Water Stewardship and Sustainable Communities ...............Hon. Barry Penner Minister of Finance.......................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Carole Taylor Minister of Forests and Range and Minister Responsible for Housing ............................................................................. Hon.

Rich Coleman Minister of Health ......................................................................................................................................................................Hon. George Abbott Minister of Labour and Citizens’ Services .......................................................................................................................... Hon. Michael de Jong Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General................................................................................................................................Hon.

John Les Minister of Small Business and Revenue and Minister Responsible for Regulatory Reform............................................ Hon. Rick Thorpe Minister of Tourism, Sport and the Arts .........................................................................................................................................Hon. Olga Ilich Minister of Transportation...........................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Kevin Falcon LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Official Opposition .........................................................................................................................................................Carole James Deputy Speaker ....................................................................................................................................................................................Sindi Hawkins Assistant Deputy Speaker.....................................................................................................................................................................Sue Hammell Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole.................................................................................................................................................

Harry Bloy Clerk of the Legislative Assembly .........................................................................................................................E. George MacMinn, OBC, QC Clerk Assistant.........................................................................................................................................................................................Robert Vaive Clerk Assistant and Law Clerk .......................................................................................................................................................Ian D.

Izard, QC Clerk Assistant and Clerk of Committees ....................................................................................................................................... Craig H. James Clerk Assistant and Committee Clerk ..........................................................................................................................................Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sergeant-at-Arms............................................................................................................................................................................. A.A.

Humphreys Director, Hansard Services ...................................................................................................................................................................Jo-Anne Kern Legislative Librarian ..................................................................................................................................................................................Jane Taylor Legislative Comptroller...............................................................................................................................................................................Dan Arbic

Party Standings: Liberal 46; New Democratic 33 ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Abbott, Hon. George (L) .................................................................... Shuswap Austin, Robin (NDP)............................................................................. Skeena Bains, Harry (NDP).................................................................. Surrey-Newton Barisoff, Hon. Bill (L)..........................................Penticton–Okanagan Valley Bell, Hon. Pat (L) .............................................................Prince George North Bennett, Hon.

Bill (L) ............................................................... East Kootenay Black, Iain (L) ............................................................ Port Moody–Westwood Bloy, Harry (L)................................................................................Burquitlam Bond, Hon. Shirley (L).....................................Prince George–Mount Robson Brar, Jagrup (NDP).....................................................Surrey–Panorama Ridge Campbell, Hon.

Gordon (L) .........................................Vancouver–Point Grey Cantelon, Ron (L)..............................................................Nanaimo-Parksville Chong, Hon. Ida (L) .................................................... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ...........................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Christensen, Hon. Tom (L) ................................................. Okanagan-Vernon Chudnovsky, Dave (NDP)........................................... Vancouver-Kensington Coell, Hon.

Murray (L) .....................................Saanich North and the Islands Coleman, Hon. Rich (L)...........................................Fort Langley–Aldergrove Conroy, Katrine (NDP) .......................................... West Kootenay–Boundary Coons, Gary (NDP) ....................................................................... North Coast Cubberley, David (NDP)............................................................Saanich South de Jong, Hon.

Michael (L) ...................................Abbotsford–Mount Lehman Dix, Adrian (NDP) .........................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Evans, Corky (NDP).................................................................Nelson-Creston Falcon, Hon. Kevin (L) .......................................................

Surrey-Cloverdale Farnworth, Mike (NDP) ...............................Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Fleming, Rob (NDP) ..............................................................Victoria-Hillside Fraser, Scott (NDP) ..............................................................Alberni-Qualicum Gentner, Guy (NDP).......................................................................Delta North Hagen, Hon. Stan (L) ................................................................ Comox Valley Hammell, Sue (NDP) ................................................... Surrey–Green Timbers Hansen, Hon.

Colin (L) ..................................................Vancouver-Quilchena Hawes, Randy (L).......................................................... Maple Ridge–Mission Hawkins, Sindi (L) ............................................................... Kelowna-Mission Hayer, Dave S. (L) ................................................................

Surrey-Tynehead Hogg, Gordon (L)..............................................................Surrey–White Rock Horgan, John (NDP)......................................................Malahat–Juan de Fuca Horning, Al (L)........................................................... Kelowna–Lake Country Ilich, Hon. Olga (L)...............................................................Richmond Centre James, Carole (NDP).......................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Jarvis, Daniel (L)..................................................

North Vancouver–Seymour Karagianis, Maurine (NDP) ........................................... Esquimalt-Metchosin Krog, Leonard (NDP)......................................................................... Nanaimo Krueger, Kevin (L)..............................................Kamloops–North Thompson Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP)........................... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Lali, Harry (NDP)........................................................................

Yale-Lillooet Lee, Richard T. (L)....................................................................Burnaby North Lekstrom, Blair (L).............................................................. Peace River South Les, Hon. John (L)............................................................... Chilliwack-Sumas Macdonald, Norm (NDP).................................... Columbia River–Revelstoke MacKay, Dennis (L)....................................................

Bulkley Valley–Stikine Mayencourt, Lorne (L).......................................................Vancouver-Burrard McIntyre, Joan (L).................................................West Vancouver–Garibaldi Neufeld, Hon. Richard (L) .................................................. Peace River North Nuraney, John (L).............................................................Burnaby-Willingdon Oppal, Hon. Wally, QC (L).......................................... Vancouver-Fraserview Penner, Hon. Barry (L)...........................................................

Chilliwack-Kent Polak, Mary (L) ....................................................................................Langley Puchmayr, Chuck (NDP)...................................................... New Westminster Ralston, Bruce (NDP) ............................................................. Surrey-Whalley Reid, Hon. Linda (L) ................................................................ Richmond East Richmond, Hon. Claude (L).............................................................

Kamloops Robertson, Gregor (NDP) ................................................Vancouver-Fairview Roddick, Valerie (L).......................................................................Delta South Routley, Doug (NDP)..................................................... Cowichan-Ladysmith Rustad, John (L) ........................................................

Prince George–Omineca Sather, Michael (NDP).........................................Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ...................................Powell River–Sunshine Coast Simpson, Bob (NDP)..................................................................Cariboo North Simpson, Shane (NDP) ....................................................Vancouver-Hastings Sultan, Ralph (L) ....................................................West Vancouver–Capilano Taylor, Hon.

Carole (L).....................................................Vancouver-Langara Thorne, Diane (NDP) .................................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Thorpe, Hon. Rick (L).......................................................Okanagan-Westside Trevena, Claire (NDP) ..................................................................North Island van Dongen, Hon. John (L)............................................ Abbotsford-Clayburn Whittred, Katherine (L)........................................

North Vancouver–Lonsdale Wyse, Charlie (NDP) .................................................................Cariboo South Yap, John (L)...................................................................Richmond-Steveston LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Clayburn....................................................Hon. John van Dongen Abbotsford–Mount Lehman .......................................... Hon. Michael de Jong Alberni-Qualicum..........................................................................

Scott Fraser Bulkley Valley–Stikine ...........................................................Dennis MacKay Burnaby North ...........................................................................Richard T. Lee Burnaby-Edmonds........................................................................Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Willingdon................................................................... John Nuraney Burquitlam.......................................................................................Harry Bloy Cariboo North..............................................................................

Bob Simpson Cariboo South..............................................................................Charlie Wyse Chilliwack-Kent ..................................................................Hon. Barry Penner Chilliwack-Sumas...................................................................... Hon. John Les Columbia River–Revelstoke................................................. Norm Macdonald Comox Valley........................................................................ Hon.

Stan Hagen Coquitlam-Maillardville..............................................................Diane Thorne Cowichan-Ladysmith ................................................................. Doug Routley Delta North ...................................................................................Guy Gentner Delta South ............................................................................. Valerie Roddick East Kootenay....................................................................... Hon.

Bill Bennett Esquimalt-Metchosin.........................................................Maurine Karagianis Fort Langley–Aldergrove ..................................................Hon. Rich Coleman Kamloops.....................................................................Hon. Claude Richmond Kamloops–North Thompson .....................................................Kevin Krueger Kelowna–Lake Country.................................................................. Al Horning Kelowna-Mission ......................................................................

Sindi Hawkins Langley ...........................................................................................Mary Polak Malahat–Juan de Fuca .................................................................. John Horgan Maple Ridge–Mission ................................................................ Randy Hawes Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows ..................................................... Michael Sather Nanaimo......................................................................................

Leonard Krog Nanaimo-Parksville .....................................................................Ron Cantelon Nelson-Creston .............................................................................Corky Evans New Westminster .................................................................. Chuck Puchmayr North Coast....................................................................................

Gary Coons North Island ...............................................................................Claire Trevena North Vancouver–Lonsdale................................................Katherine Whittred North Vancouver–Seymour..........................................................Daniel Jarvis Oak Bay–Gordon Head ........................................................... Hon. Ida Chong Okanagan-Vernon......................................................... Hon. Tom Christensen Okanagan-Westside..............................................................Hon.

Rick Thorpe Peace River North.......................................................... Hon. Richard Neufeld Peace River South..................................................................... Blair Lekstrom Penticton–Okanagan Valley .................................................Hon. Bill Barisoff Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain ............................................Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Westwood.................................................................... Iain Black Powell River–Sunshine Coast ...............................................

Nicholas Simons Prince George North.................................................................... Hon. Pat Bell Prince George–Mount Robson ............................................Hon. Shirley Bond Prince George–Omineca................................................................ John Rustad Richmond Centre......................................................................Hon. Olga Ilich Richmond East........................................................................Hon.

Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston...........................................................................John Yap Saanich North and the Islands ............................................ Hon. Murray Coell Saanich South ........................................................................ David Cubberley Shuswap............................................................................Hon. George Abbott Skeena.......................................................................................... Robin Austin Surrey-Cloverdale............................................................... Hon.

Kevin Falcon Surrey–Green Timbers ................................................................Sue Hammell Surrey-Newton............................................................................... Harry Bains Surrey–Panorama Ridge.................................................................Jagrup Brar Surrey-Tynehead ....................................................................... Dave S.

Hayer Surrey-Whalley...........................................................................Bruce Ralston Surrey–White Rock .....................................................................Gordon Hogg Vancouver-Burrard..............................................................Lorne Mayencourt Vancouver-Fairview.............................................................Gregor Robertson Vancouver-Fraserview .................................................Hon.

Wally Oppal, QC Vancouver-Hastings .................................................................Shane Simpson Vancouver-Kensington.......................................................David Chudnovsky Vancouver-Kingsway ......................................................................Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara ........................................................... Hon. Carole Taylor Vancouver–Mount Pleasant........................................ Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Vancouver–Point Grey ................................................Hon.

Gordon Campbell Vancouver-Quilchena.........................................................Hon. Colin Hansen Victoria–Beacon Hill...................................................................

Carole James Victoria-Hillside ...........................................................................Rob Fleming West Kootenay–Boundary........................................................Katrine Conroy West Vancouver–Capilano...........................................................Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Garibaldi ........................................................Joan McIntyre Yale-Lillooet..................................................................................... Harry Lali

CONTENTS Wednesday, April 26, 2006 Afternoon Sitting Routine Proceedings Page Introductions by Members ....................................................................................................... .............................................. 4023 Introduction and First Reading of Bills........................................................................................ ......................................... 4024 Public Safety and Solicitor General Statutes Amendment Act, 2006 (Bill 31) Hon. J. Les Tenancy Statutes Amendment Act, 2006 (Bill 27) Hon. G.

Abbott Statements (Standing Order 25B) .............................................................................................................................. ............. 4025 Carson Camaro project K. Whittred Hazards of atomic energy industry K. Conroy Provincial nominee program I. Black Impact of ferry sinking on shellfish industry G. Coons Scleroderma Association of B.C. V. Roddick 100 Mile House Lions Club C.

Wyse Oral Questions................................................................................................................. ......................................................... 4027 Closing of St. Mary's Hospital C. Puchmayr Hon. G. Abbott Health care services in Fraser region B. Ralston Hon. G. Abbott Staff morale in emergency rooms D. Cubberley Hon. G. Abbott Health care services in Kootenay area K. Conroy Hon. G. Abbott Federal-provincial child care agreements D. Thorne Hon. L. Reid Funding for rural schools N. Macdonald Hon. M. de Jong Michael Geoghegan and lobbyists code of conduct M.

Karagianis Hon. W. Oppal Reports from Committees........................................................................................................ ............................................... 4031 Special Committee to Appoint an Ombudsman J. Rustad L. Krog Committee of the Whole House................................................................................................... .......................................... 4032 Resort Timber Administration Act (Bill 24) (continued) N. Simons Hon. O. Ilich M. Sather B. Simpson

Report and Third Reading of Bills .............................................................................................. ........................................... 4046 Resort Timber Administration Act (Bill 24) Committee of the Whole House................................................................................................... .......................................... 4046 Employment and Income Assistance Statutes Amendment Act, 2006 (Bill 21) C. Trevena Hon. C. Richmond J. Kwan N. Simons M.

Sather Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room Committee of Supply............................................................................................................ ................................................... 4061 Estimates: Ministry of Advanced Education and Minister Responsible for Research and Technology (continued) C. Wyse Hon. M. Coell B. Simpson C. Trevena J. Kwan J. Brar B. Ralston R. Fleming Estimates: Ministry of Community Services and Minister Responsible for Seniors' and Women's Issues Hon. I. Chong N. Macdonald M. Sather J. Horgan S. Simpson C. Wyse B. Simpson

4023 WEDNESDAY, APRIL 26, 2006 The House met at 2:03 p.m. Prayers. Introductions by Members D. Hayer: It is my pleasure today to welcome mem- b e r s o f S u r r e y M e m o r i a l H o s p i t a l F o u n d a t i o n t o t h i s House. Joining us today are the Hon. Herb Dhaliwal, Chris Midmore, Laurie Tetarenko and Genesa Wheaton. They are here today to meet with MLAs on both sides of the House. I will be meetin g with them later on this afternoon. Would the House please make them very welcome. H.

Lali: I, too, would like to join the hon. member in welcoming my good friend Herb Dhaliwal, the for- mer federal Minister of Natural Resources Canada, who is here in the galleries today. Also, I have two constituents: Evelyn Armstrong and Anne Chong. I guess her real name is Guek Cheng Pang, commonly known as Anne Chong. They're con- stituents of mine from Merritt. Would the House please make all three welcome. [1405] V. Roddick: In the gallery today are several mem- bers of the Scleroderma As sociation of British Colum- bia.

Visiting from Delta South and the GVRD are founding president Jeannette Stach, current president Barbara Stanyer, vice-presi dent Bob Buzza, secretary Joan Kelly and members of the fundraising committee, Jocelyn and Vic Barber, Rino and Kelly Mauro and John Lewis. Also attending from Victoria are Cookie Dubney, Chris Stayr and Jo an Roberts. Would the House please welcome them all. N. Simons: In the House today I'd like to welcome Louise Herle, an inspirational teacher from school dis- trict 46. It's a pleasure to have her here. I wish I was 20 years younger and still in elementary school.

Would the House please make her welcome. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. C. Hansen: About two months ago I had the opportunity to be flipping through a copy of the Times of London, and I came across an

article about UBC's dean of the Sauder school of business, Daniel Muzyka. It was a great

article talking about the tremendous job that he's done in leading that school and the great reputation that the Sauder school is developing around the world. Dan was able to come to British Columbia because of our provincial nominee program. He was able to come as a landed immigrant to British Columbia and take up that very important post to lead our pre- eminent business school in th is province. I know we'll be learning a little bit more about the PNP program in a few minutes, but I hope the House will join me in welcoming Daniel Muzyka to the Legislature today. M.

Sather: Joining us today is Janice Wycherley, who is a teacher at Hammond Elementary School in my constituency. Janice is he re for the B.C. Teachers' Institute on Parliamentary Democracy. Would every- one join me in making her welcome. Hon. B. Penner: This week we are saying farewell to someone who has been a valued part of our gov- ernment and the Legislature since 2001. For almost five years, Delphi Hoodicoff has had the daunting task of making me and my fellow colleagues of the govern- ment and the Legislature look good on camera. Whether she's been interviewing MLAs…. Interjections. Hon. B.

Penner: Nobody's perfect, Mr. Speaker. Whether she's been interviewing MLAs on video for their constituency reports or recording the Read On B.C literacy program with the Premier, Delphi has been an important part of how we communicate with British Columbians about the work we do on their behalf. I'm advised she will now be pursuing a new small business venture of her own in terms of video production in Crescent Valley in the Koot enays. Without question, the capital's loss will be a net gain for the constituents of the member for Nelson-Creston.

It's possible that Del- phi will be able to make even the member for Nelson- Creston look good. I want to personally thank Delphi for her endless patience and professionalism behind the camera more times than I can remember. I know that all members of this House will join me in wishing Delphi all the best in her new home and her new business. I'm sure she will be a very bright light well into the future. M. Farnworth: A couple of days ago I introduced a group of students and their teachers from Archbishop Carney School in my riding, who were visiting the Leg- islature.

Well, they obviously had such a good time that the teachers decided to bring another group back here. So I would ask the House to please make welcome…. Interjections. M. Farnworth: I don't wish to disappoint the hon. House Leader, but Bill has decided he is enjoying pri- vate life and will not be challenging the member at the next election. In the gallery today are Mr. Jerome Francis, Mr. John Borizzilo, Mr. Brygide Reis, Mr. Charles Harris and the students of Archbishop Carney Secondary. Could the House please make them most welcome. [1410] S.

Hawkins: In the gallery visiting us today are two members of the Massage Therapists Association of

4024 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, APRIL 26, 2006 British Columbia. Damon Marchand is the president — that's his second term — and he's the newly re-elected president of the Canadian Massage Therapist Alliance. Bodhi Haraldsson is vice-president of the Massage Therapists Association of British Columbia and their director of research. I would ask that the members please help me make them welcome. C. Trevena: I, too, will mention the member for Nelson-Creston, who earlier today met with teachers and students from Phoenix Alternative School on Saltspring Island and had a long conversation with them.

They are now in the gallery. I hope the House could make them welcome. We have with us students Emily Timchuck, Geneva Le rner, Hauke Mackensen, Daniel Hoy and Alex Blanes. They are being accompa- nied by their teachers Step hen Berry and David Banks. I hope the House will make them very welcome. D. Hayer: Today we have Brenda Locke, who's the executive director of the Massage Therapists Associa- tion of British Columbia and my constituent, good friend and a hard worker from Surrey, a former MLA for Surrey–Green Timbers and a former minister of mental health. Would the House please make her very welcome. Mr.

Speaker: Hon. members, in the House today I'm pleased to welcome and introduce 15 teachers from across British Columbia who are participating in the Legislative Assembly's third B.C. Teachers' Institute on Parliamentary Democracy. They will be with us for the remainder of this week, expanding their knowledge of both parliamentary and poli tical systems. They are joined by four of their peers who are acting as facilita- tors. I trust many of you have had the opportunity to meet with them during the institute.

Accompanying them is Brad Hendrickson, deputy secretary from Washington State Senate, who is with us to learn from the neighbours to the north how to offer educational opportunities to their teachers. Would the House please make them welcome. Introduction and First Reading of Bills PUBLIC SAFETY AND SOLICITOR GENERAL STATUTES AMENDMENT ACT, 2006 Hon. J. Les presented a message from Her Honour the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Public Safety and Solicitor General Statutes Amendment Act, 2006. Hon. J. Les: Mr. Speaker, I move that the bill be introduced and read a first time now. Motion approved. Hon. J.

Les: I'm pleased to introduce amendments to several statutes that are administered by my minis- try. These statutes that are to be amended are the Gam- ing Control Act; the Insurance (Motor Vehicle) Amendment Act, 2003; the Li quor Control and Licens- ing Act; and the Motor Vehicle Act. The bill will strengthen our rules to ensure the in- tegrity of the gaming industry. With this bill, govern- ment will be able to bring into effect the key measures introduced in 2003 to increase consumer choice and competition in the motor vehicle insurance industry.

Public safety will be improved because we are stream- lining the process for delegating authority to inspect liquor establishments to the police. This bill will help the commercial trucking indust ry by reducing red tape and paperwork and providing permanent trailer de- cals. Finally, the AirCare program will be able to utilize on-board diagnostic testing of vehicles when conduct- ing emissions testing. I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Bill 31, Public Safety an d Solicitor General Statutes Amendment Act, 2006, introd uced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for sec- ond reading at the next sitting of the House after today. TENANCY STATUTES AMENDMENT ACT, 2006 Hon. G. Abbott presented a message from His Honour the Administrator: a bill intituled Tenancy Statutes Amendment Act, 2006. Hon. G. Abbott: I move that this bill be introduced and read a first time now. Motion approved. [1415] Hon. G.

Abbott: On behalf of the Minister Respon- sible for Housing, I am pleased to rise and introduce Bill 27, which proposes amendments to the Manufac- tured Home Park Tenancy Act and the Residential Tenancy Act. These amendments will me an that residents in assisted-living and supportive housing facilities will be protected by existing tenanc y legislation. Until now, landlords and tenants of these facilities had to deal with disputes themselves or resort to the courts. Costly and complex court procedures meant that complaints often went unheard and unresolved.

This bill will ensure that there is a simple and inexpensive way to resolve their disputes using the existing mechanisms in the Residen- tial Tenancy and Manufactured Home Park acts. Bill 27 also adds new penalties for violating the Manufactured Home Park Tenancy Act and the Resi- dential Tenancy Act. These penalties can be adminis- tered by the residential tenancy office rather than the courts, which means better accountability and more protection for tenants and landlords. This act also amends the way residential tenancy office administrators are employed by the province.

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 26, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 4025 Currently, arbitrators work as part-time appointees for the ministry, earning an hourly wage. With these amendments, arbitrators can be hired to work as full- time ministry staff. Mr. Speaker, I move the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Bill 27, Tenancy Statutes Amendment Act, 2006, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sit- ting of the House after today. Statements (Standing Order 25

B) CARSON CAMARO PROJECT K. Whittred: High school students in the Carson Graham BCIT automotive te chnician training program have refurbished a classic 1981 Z28 Camaro and turned it into a sleek racing machine. In my community we affectionately call it the Carson Camaro. Too often, we see and hear about the terribly tragic outcomes of street racing. Too many lives are lost and families destroyed because of speed by a few. Most street racers are youth. The Carson Camaro project aims to get the message to these youth that street rac- ing is dangerous and deadly.

Carson Camaro is part of an aggressive-driving, stre et-racing project that is based on the belief that youth listen to youth. The project — a joint effort between the North Van- couver school district, the North Vancouver RCMP and a generous group of community sponsors — aims to take racing off the street and put it on the track. After all, if it's about racing, then let's get their attention through racing. The Carson Camaro is built to compete at the B.C. high school motorsport association's drag racing com- petitions held at Mission Raceway ..

Mission Raceway is a place where racing is promoted safely and legally. By getting the students involved in building this car, they have the opportunity to be leaders in their peer group and to show fellow students the merits of speed and racing in a controlled, safe and competitive environ- ment. Carson Camaro is the only one of its kind and will be used in many future presentations throughout the community. It's a great projec t. I encourage all of you to welcome Carson Camaro when it comes to your community. HAZARDS OF ATOMIC ENERGY INDUSTRY K.

Conroy: Today, April 26, is the 20th anniversary of the Chernobyl nuclear disaster. Until that ill-fated day 20 years ago, Chernobyl's power plant was a suc- cess. Its energy output exc eeded all expectations, and its safety record was unstained. The chief engineer who designed the Chernobyl reactor used to brag that this type of reactor was so safe, it could be built in Red Square in Moscow. Howeve r, the unthinkable hap- pened. Due to a number of reasons, the reactor ex- ploded, causing serious repercussions still felt today.

A young woman from Russia, Elena Filatova, sent a constituent of mine three documentaries and 250 of her photographs. She motorcycled through the Chernobyl area, capturing the haunting pictures of the ghost town Chernobyl 20 years later. I had the opportunity to see some of these pictures at a meeting in Beaverdell on Monday, April 17. That night, Easter Monday, the community cleared out the firehall so that over 150 people could talk about their concerns about uranium mini ng.

The story Elena tells with her pictures, one of which I keep with me, and the documentaries remind us all of the hazards of uranium mining. [1420] The facts presented of the health risks also laid bare the potential devastating re percussions: how the prod- ucts of uranium have not only an incredibly long life — up to 4.5 billion years — but have proven to cause many cancers and blood diseases. Last week a new interna- tional report said that more than 93,000 people could still die as a result of the accident. This will be on top of the over 200,000 deaths that have already occurred.

The people at the meeting that night were a mix of the community and the region — ranchers, loggers, environmentalists and miners from Rock Creek to Bea- verdell and retired folks who live in Kelowna but have property at the Big White Resort — all brought to- gether for a common issue: the concern of uranium mining and its potential devastating effects to our area. There is big money to be made in the atomic energy industry. The Blizzard deposit in the area next to Big White is said to contain ten million pounds of uranium, which at recent prices of $50 a pound is worth about half a billion dollars.

However, we were told by an area rancher who is also in the mining industry that it is just not worth it. Today on this 20th anniversary of Chernobyl…. Mr. Speaker: Thank you, member. PROVINCIAL NOMINEE PROGRAM I. Black: With our booming economy, we have be- come increasingly aware that immigration of skilled and educated newcomers is vital to keep British Co- lumbia strong and prosperous. Not only do immi- grants enrich our cultural mosaic, they also bring skills, investment and more of the entrepreneurial spirit.

One plan to recruit skilled and in-demand immi- grants to B.C. is the prov incial nominee program, or the PNP. Since its inception in 2001, it has proven to be quite a success. In fact, ov er 1,750 skilled and business immigrants plus their depe ndents have made this province their home through the PNP. This creative, made-in-B.C. program approves applications in as little as four weeks, in comparison to the time frame for the traditional permanent resident status of as much as four years.

4026 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, APRIL 26, 2006 This enables the PNP-approved professionals to come to Canada, to B.C., quickly and to immediately establish or continue their careers while the rest of the federal immigration process takes its natural course. It is an excellent tool for B.C.'s businesses, allowing them to fill crucial labour vacancies by identifying immi- grants with an ability to immediately contribute to our province. I would be remiss today if I didn't acknowledge one PNP applicant who has joined us in the gallery, who has made significant contributions to our prov- ince.

American Dan Muzyka was nominated into the PNP in 2002 and, since settling in B.C. with his family, has made immeasurable contributions as both the dean of the prestigious Sauder school of business at UBC and as the chair of the Vancouver Board of Trade. I am delighted to advise th at he and his family have all applied for Canadian citizenships.

I would ask members to join in thanking Dean Dan, as the students affectionately call him, for his many contributions to- wards education and also call on all of us to promote the provincial nominee program in order to allow Brit- ish Columbia to continue in its historical prosperity. IMPACT OF FERRY SINKING ON SHELLFISH INDUSTRY G. Coons: I was pleased that the Premier and the Environment Minister had the opportunity to visit the village of Hartley Bay, home of the Gitga'at Nation, and bestow upon them the first award for heroic achievement by a community.

After the sinking of the Queen of the North , I spent three days in the village vis- iting the site, listening to th e stories and witnessing the trepidation. I was relieved to see and join with FNESS, the First Nations Emergency Social Services, as they were there to professionally debrief those in the village and espe- cially those who were first on scene. I had the honour to join in the memorial feast that the Gitga'at prepared for the families and friends of the missing passengers.

The donations of a rescue boat, a Polaris Seamaster, to the Hartley Bay division of the Coast Guard Auxiliary will definitely be put to good use, and any other equipment is more than welcome. There is still a long haul to go. There's a major con- cern and a crisis about th e long-term environmental impacts on the traditional shellfish harvesting grounds and the Gitga'at vital shoreline vegetation. When I was in the village, the spouse of a heredi- tary chief wrote a story with her young granddaughter, entitled But I Never Tasted One . I would like to share that with you.

Today my teacher asked us how many of us had tasted abalone. I know that abalone was an animal that lived on the rocks in the water and that the shells were a beautiful rainbow colour. But I've ne ver tasted one. My grand- mother told me that long ago they used to be able to get abalone by the sackful, and they were delicious. But I've never tasted one. She said they were good raw, but if you're going to fry them that you had to pound them and then fry them and eat them with rice. But I've never tasted one. I don't know what happened to them all. I just know there aren't any anymore, and I've never tasted one.

What will happen in 2010 if my teacher asked us how many of us have tasted clams? I wonder what I will say. I hope that it won't be that I have never tasted one. [1425] As band councillor Cam Hill recently stated: "Our natural resources are everything we have. The best anyone could give back to us is what we had before the sinking — a clean environment." SCLERODERMA ASSOCIATION OF B.C. V.

Roddick: This two-minute statement is to raise awareness of scleroderma, or hard skin, which is a chronic progressive vascular and autoimmune disease of the connective tissue, resulting in the hardening of skin and multiple internal organs. Scleroderma does not discriminate. It's found in all countries and ethnic groups and affects all ages, fr om infants to the elderly. It is estimated that there are approximately 36,000 Ca- nadians living with sclero derma, which is often ex- tremely difficult to diagnose. Tragically, there is no known cause or cure.

One of my constituents, Joan Kelly, introduced in the gallery today, provided me with information about her amazing support group, the Scleroderma Associa- tion of B.C., which was founded in 1984 by five pa- tients — one of whom is Joan. Joan went on to discover four other patients in the lower mainland with the disease. By the determination and perseverance of these five women, the association brought this rare disease to national attention and con- tinues to provide support and information to patients right across our country. This local association supports the B.C. scleroderma research clinic at St.

Paul's Hospital and is attended by patients from all over B.C. I would like to thank Joan and her team for making and keeping us aware of this disease and for her group's strong support and efforts on behalf of us all. Lives lived in the shadows are now being illuminated with hope. 100 MILE HOUSE LIONS CLUB C. Wyse: Recently 100 Mile House celebrated the 50th anniversary of the 100 Mile House Lions Club. It is indeed a major achievement for any service club to reach such a momentous bi rthday. Guests attended from all over North America.

The master of ceremonies, Ron Graves, recognized three charter members who were able to be in atten- dance on that evening: David Ainsworth, James Bruce and Charles MacLaren. This year's president, Mitch Campsall, introduced the evening's main speaker, Judge Ryan Stephenson of Calgary. Judge Stephenson is a past president of the international association of Lions Clubs. Needless to say, the 100 Mile House Lions Club has served this community well over these 50 years. A few building projects it has supported over the years in-

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 26, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 4027 clude the construction of a health centre and two hospi- tals as well as two arenas. The Lions Club supported an untold number of individuals requiring financial sup- port while also providing for the needs of many indi- viduals by purchasing such items as wheelchairs and support lifts that were too expensive for the person to purchase on their own. The final achievement I wish to advise the House of today involves the Lions Club's ability to provide for the service needs of the Cariboo in general.

This club sponsored or assisted the formation of service clubs in Clinton, 108 Mile House, Interlakes, Forest Grove 94, Williams Lake, Highways 24 and Lac la Hache. In closing, I request that the House not only recog- nize the achievements of the Lions Club and its cele- bration of its 50th birthday. I wish the House to extend best wishes as the 100 Mile House Lions Club moves towards 100 years of service to its community. [1430] Oral Questions CLOSING OF ST. MARY'S HOSPITAL C. Puchmayr: Yesterday the Minister of Health said that there was a crisis in th e health care system.

It was a long-overdue admission from a government that shut down long-term care beds. B.C.'s bed shortage has cre- ated a situation in ERs that more and more doctors are decrying as deplorable. In New Westminster, at Royal Columbian Hospital, the hospital desperately needed more capacity, but instead we received less capacity. In fact, St. Mary's Hospital used to transfer on e-third of their capacity to St. Mary's Hospital. Can the minister explain why this government closed St. Mary's Hospital and reduced capacity in acute care beds in a region that is expand- ing constantly? Hon. G.

Abbott: I suppose I should be used to hav- ing the members opposite take my comments out of context, but I will correct the record here. My com- ments were directly in relation to human resource chal- lenges in the health care system and, in particular, in relation to the need for nurs ing positions, particularly in the emergency rooms of our province. Again, I know members opposite don't like me to talk about this, but throughout the 1990s there was not a single nursing space added in our province's colleges and universities. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. G.

Abbott: Not a single space through the 1990s. The consequence of that is it wasn't until 2001- 2002, when our government took office and began an addition of 2,511 spaces — a 62-percent increase in nursing spaces in this province…. Now we are starting to see those young nurses graduate, and we will be able to see the human resource needs met for the first time in a long time. Mr. Speaker: Member for New Westminster has a supplemental. C. Puchmayr: We saw how this government pro- jects morale by tearing up collective agreements and eliminating workforce.

The crisis at Royal Columbian Hospital was de- signed by this government — 200 acute care beds in the region, and they closed St. Mary's Hospital despite serious warnings. In 2002 an independent review panel submitted a report to the government that stated: "The most notice- able…result of the closure of St. Mary's will be the longer wait-lists for surgeries at other hospitals." The report went on: "The addition of surgical cases from St. Mary's will be an exacerbation." Will the minister finally admit that it was a mistake to close St. Mary's and eliminate 20 percent of the re- gion's acute care beds? Hon. G.

Abbott: Two important points. Again, the members opposite may not want to hear this, but this is a fact. During the 1990s we saw the largest-ever closures of acute care beds in this province. Over 3,300 acute care beds were closed in this province during the 1990s. Apparently some of the members opposite have had a conversion on the road to Victoria. But they have to acknowledge the factual record, which was that dur- ing their term there were unprecedented closures of acute care beds in this province. Mr. Speaker: Member has a further supplemental. C. Puchmayr: The minister doesn't get it.

Royal Columbian Hospital's crisis was created by design. St. Mary's dealt with 35,000 patients a year — 11,000 sur- gical cases, including joint replacements. St. Mary's Hospital was critical to relieving the pressure at Royal Columbian. In 2003 Dr. Michael Piper, an orthopedic surgeon, quoted: "St. Mary's relieves the Royal Columbian Hos- pital of considerable pressure. Without this safety valve, the Royal Columbian Hospital is going to be- come even more congested and unworkable." The government ignored the doctor's warnings and shut down St.

Mary's — with 71 acute care beds, seven operating rooms — and turned the hospital into rubble. Will the minister intervene to ensure that this capacity is reinstituted in an area that is growing at the levels that it is growing today? [1435] Hon. G. Abbott: We're certainly doing some de- signing. We're redesigning th e disaster that was this former government's health care policies in the 1990s. That's the redesign work we're undertaking. They were a government that closed over 3,300 acute care beds. They were a government that never

4028 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, APRIL 26, 2006 made any investments in health human resources. They were a government that let surgical wait-lists grow in this province. They were a government that couldn't manage the system. In fact, what we are see- ing under this government are improvements for the first time in a long time in respect of surgical wait-lists. Let's talk about the facts, Mr. Speaker: cataract sur- g e r y w a i t t i m e r e d u c e d f r o m 1 2 w e e k s d o w n t o e i g h t weeks, open-heart surger y reduced from 12 weeks down to ten weeks.

We have the best cancer care in the nation, in North America and quite possibly the world — less than one week wait time for radiation therapy in this province. They shou ld be proud of our health care system instead of constantly criticizing it. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. HEALTH CARE SERVICES IN FRASER REGION B. Ralston: Unfortunately, on the other side of the House blustergate appears to be continuing. The minis- ter prefers bluster to dispas sionate analysis. Long-term care cuts put pressure on acute care spaces. Acute care cuts put pressure on surgic al wait-lists.

All three of these put strain on overflowing ERs. That's not my analysis; that 's the analysis of Dr. Les Vertesi, the Premier's brother-in-law. In 2005 he told the CBC all about the competing demands for beds — the result, in his own words: "Patients pile up." Will the minister admit that his government's fail- ure to build 5,000 additional long-term care beds as promised and acute care bed cuts have driven the health care system — in particular, in the Fraser health region — to the situation that physicians decry today? Hon. G. Abbott: Again, I know the members oppo- site don't like to deal with the facts.

Any time they hear a set of facts that isn't in accordance with their ideol- ogy, they have a tough time dealing with it, and they call it bluster. The facts are the facts. We have substantially re- duced wait times for cataracts. We've substantially reduced wait times for open-heart surgery. And we've reduced it for angioplasty and cancer care. In a whole range of areas we've reduce d it. In addition, the one area where we have had a challenge in reducing wait times, which is in hip an d knee replacements….

Very recently we announced a $60.5 million investment by this government to ensure that those who are waiting for hips and knees get timely service as well. Mr. Speaker: Member for Surrey-Whalley has a supplemental. B. Ralston: The minister talks about facts. Here is what the physicians at Royal Columbian say: "The cur- r e n t s e t t i n g o f s e v e r e b e d s h o r t a g e a n d l a c k o f r e - sources means patients will continue to suffer from our inability to see them in a safe and timely fashion." That's a fact. That's what they said. That's what they're saying right now, not ten years ago.

Yesterday the minister blamed the Royal Columbian crisis on a combination of population increase in the Fraser health region and an aging population. St. Mary's Hospital, closed by his government, served a significant amount of the people the minister would call aging. According to Dr. Irwin Stewart, former chief of the medical staff at St. Mary's, that hospital was the most efficient surgical hospital in the region. On its closure, he stated: "Does it make sense?

Not on your life." If a growing and aging popu lation is to blame, why did this shortsighted government take away critical tools the Fraser health regi on needed to meet growing demands? Hon. G. Abbott: Again, I know the opposition members are always seeking simple solutions to com- plex problems.

You know, when we look at issues around emergency rooms or hospitals or other chal- lenges in this system, we try to look at the system as a whole and try to ensure that we add investments and resources where it's most appropriate. [1440] We have talked about health human resources and how important they are and how important training a sufficient number of doctors and nurses and health professionals is. It appears that the opposition may have had a conversion in respect of that. Another area where I hope they will have a conver- sion is around the need for assisted living and residen- tial care in this province.

Our government has invested more than any government ever in assisted living and residential care. We have brought thousands of anti- quated and older units up to standard for today. We are making unprecedented investments to ensure that the one-year wait time — one-year wait time — for residential care that existed under that former NDP government is now reduced to between 18 days and 88 days in this province. STAFF MORALE IN EMERGENCY ROOMS D.

Cubberley: You know, it's always interesting to hear the minister opposite decry the closing of beds in the '90s but fail to take resp onsibility for closing one in five additional beds in this government's reign. Now why, if he says one is wrong, would two wrongs make a right? I mean, that's the question. Earlier the minister was commenting on the staff shortages as being the reason for the crisis in emer- gency rooms — not bed cuts. So it's interesting how he doesn't want to listen to doctors. What did doctors say yesterday? Dr.

Glazer said the staffing problems are related to stress involved in doing emergency room work. Staff turnover is prob- lematic. "We used to be considered one of the more desirable ERs to work in. In the past we poached sev- eral emergency physicians from VGH." Now listen. "Now no one wants to work in the con- ditions we are forced to endure. Several emergency

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 26, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 4029 physicians have voiced concerns about leaving. Experi- enced nurses have also been leaving our department because of the working conditions. The situation has become very demoralizing." My question to the minister: do you care about the decline in morale in hospit al operating rooms across this province because of the bed cuts your government implemented? Hon. G. Abbott: I want to thank the opposition Health critic, first of all, for reading that long passage from the Vancouver Sun's coverage this morning of this situation.

I hadn't had time to read the newspaper, and I appreciate him doing all the research and bringing that very, very complex question forward. I had.… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Whoa. Members from both sides. Do you want to start again, minister? Hon. G. Abbott: Yes. I understood that they had human resource challenges over in their QP prepara- tion department, and I guess I have just seen some con- firmation with respect to that. I don't want to get into a complex philosophical argument with the member about whether two wrongs make a right.

That's complex stuff that we really should reserve for something like estimates. I am happy to say this. We need a range of health care professionals to make our system work properly. We need nurses; we've talked about that. We need doc- tors; we've doubled the numbers of doctors that we're educating in this province. We have tripled the number of international medical graduates, and we've created nurse practitioners to meet a very important need. Mr. Speaker: The member for Saanich South has a supplemental. D. Cubberley: I think we understand just how fact- averse the minister is.

But you know, maybe the minis- ter needs to sit down with his colleague the Minister of Income Assistance, because he knows that there's a crisis at the ER in Kamloops. In fact, he openly com- plained, and we qu ote: "We seem to be lu rching from one crisis to another." We are in fact lurching from one crisis to another. Patients and doctors and nurses are tired of being lurched. [1445] I'd think a minister would actually want to take notice when doctors tell him about unacceptable condi- tions at public hospitals, but clearly he's not interested in what doctors think.

He might show a bit of concern, go and learn something firsthand rather than just deny and dismiss. Now we know that the minister doesn't care whether morale is in the dumper in hospital emer- gency rooms, but my questi on is…. The Conference Board says you have the lowest patient satisfaction in Canada. Does patient satisfaction with quality and timeliness of care that are deteriorating matter to you, minister? Hon. G. Abbott: It's good we've moved from to- day's news over to the archives. I appreciate that.

I want to bring the member up to date on Royal Inland Hospital and the in vestments that have been done there — a $28 million investment in the emergency room alone at Royal Inland Hospital; tens of millions of dollars invested in a 44-bed neuropsychiatric centre, brand-new in Kamloops; millions more invested in as- sisted living and residential care in Kamloops. All of those things, I thin k, are getting us on the right road again after a decade of neglect. I know the members for Kamloops can tell me about all of the bro- ken promises that relate to Kamloops by the former government.

We actually make those investments. We don't just talk about what we're going to do. We actually make the investments that are going to make this system a better one in the long term for British Columbians. HEALTH CARE SERVICES IN KOOTENAY AREA K. Conroy: Today we've heard a lot about the crisis in New Westminster and the Fraser health region. Per- haps the minister needs a reminder of the ongoing cri- sis in the Kootenays and the Interior Health Authority. This government forced drastic bed cuts in Nelson, Trail and Castlegar.

The consequences were recently re- ported by the regional district's health care task force. In this report the task force states that both Trail and Nelson hospitals are chronically overloaded. Average occu- pancy is often over 100 percent, resulting in inappropri- ate, dangerous early discharges. Patients are backed up into halls and clogging emergency because no beds are available — more transfers out of area. This is a crisis. Will the minister agree immediately to increase the number of beds in the Kootenays so patients can get safe and timely care? Hon. G. Abbott: Negative, negative, negative.

What is it that the opposition members don't like about the $31 million investment? In Cranbrook, in the Steepleview Care Centre, 47 beds; 25 assisted-living units at Joseph Creek Village. In Creston, 90 beds at Swan Valley Lodge; 21 assisted-living units at Orchard View Vil- lage; and another 20 residential care beds to open in 2007. What is it they don't like about that in Fernie- Sparwood, Rocky Mountain Village, 50 residential care and ten assisted-living units were added in July 2004? The list, as they say, goes on and on.

I'm sure the questions will go on and on, and I'm glad to pick it up after the next one. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. K. Conroy: I'm glad to know the minister is willing to pick up the questions. However, people in this prov-

4030 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, APRIL 26, 2006 ince and especially people in the Kootenays are in- credibly frustrated about your lack of respect and re- sponsibility to the people in that region. This report was written by a task force of citizens, advocates and doctors in the regions. The minister can't just brush off their concerns with his bravado. This government cut 42 percent of all acute care beds in the West Kootenays.

Will the minister commit today that the ongoing review of the Kootenay Regional Hospital will examine the impact of all the bed cuts, and will he commit to add more capacity to get patients out of ER hallways? [1450] Hon. G. Abbott: One would think from the com- ments that the member is disappointed to have a major regional hospital in Trail. Is that the case? I guess not. I guess the member is apprecia tive, actually, of the huge investment that has been made at Trail in the regional hospital.

I know that in Cranbrook they are very apprecia- tive of the major investments that have been made at the regional hospital in Cr anbrook. I understand that $8 million was expended in 2002 in the Cranbrook Hospital just to create heating, air-conditioning and ventilation to keep that hospital functioning. What we have not seen under the former NDP gov- ernment for that ten years was a reinvestment on the capital side that is so essential to keeping hospitals up to date. We are doing that. As I said yesterday, we've invested $100 million just in emergency rooms.

We have budgeted another $1.8 billion for the next three years, again, to do a major capital reinvestment in those criti- cal institutions in our province — the hospitals. FEDERAL-PROVINCIAL CHILD CARE AGREEMENTS D. Thorne: A report released today found that it costs an average of $166,000 to raise a child from birth to age 18. A second report, also released today, con- firmed that under Prime Minister Harper's child care plan, families who need the most support will benefit the least.

Now that the child care tax credit has been officially eliminated, it's estimated that a family with two working parents and a combined income of about $30,000 will actually get to keep about $199 of Harper's $1,200 a year. Given the increasingly high cost of raising a child and these new concerns about the child care plan pro- posed by Prime Minister Harper, will this government finally take action? The questi on is to the Minister of State for Childcare.

Will your government finally take action and ask the federal government to honour the five-year child care agreem ent that we reached with the federal government last year? Hon. L. Reid: I'm pleased to respond to this ques- tion. Certainly we've canvassed these issues exten- sively in the estimates process — happy to put the comments back on the record. We are indeed building a child care system in Brit- ish Columbia and have been for a number of years. We have increased capital expenditure in British Columbia. We've increased operating expenditure in British Co- lumbia.

We will be looking with some detailed exami- nation of the federal budget when it comes down, be- cause at this point the member opposite's comments are sheer speculation. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. D. Thorne: I n a v e r y q u i c k r e s p o n s e t o t h a t c o m - ment, I rather think it's not speculation. After listening to the throne speech and hearing the comments from Ms. Finley and Mr. Harper, I think we know exactly where we are in this coun try, when the cheques are probably being printed already and are being delivered in July. So I think we know what the situation is.

What we didn't know was that the.… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. D. Thorne: What we didn't know was that the child care tax credit was going to be eliminated when this plan was introduced. Now we know this officially. To say it's speculation is totally wrong. Four other provin- cial governments have protested and called for these agreements to be honoured. In March our Premier went to speak to the Prime Minister. He outlined his five key areas of concern, his priorities. Shockingly, with a loss to this province of almost half a billion dollars, child care was not one of them. Interjections. Mr.

Speaker: Can the member pose the question. D. Thorne: Get to the question, yes. I want to ask, once again, the Minister of State for Childcare: will her government reconsider these earlier decisions? Will they finally stand up to Prime Minister Harper and British Columbia families and insist that the federal government honour this plan and honour B.C. families? Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. [1455] Hon. L. Reid: The member will recall from the press — and it was abundant — that this province was the second province to the table to meet with the fed- eral minister days after she was appointed to cabinet.

Our advocacy in this area is, I think, unparalleled. We in fact have taken…. Interjections.

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 26, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 4031 Hon. L. Reid: The discussion underway in terms of…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. We listened to the ques- tion. Let's listen to the answer. The minister of state continues. Hon. L. Reid: The family allowance piece is coming forward. The second piece of that is a commitment by the federal minister to collaborate with the provinces and the territories in terms of an extension of child care space in British Columbia and in the other jurisdictions in Canada. I intend to advocate fiercely for that second proposal. FUNDING FOR RURAL SCHOOLS N.

Macdonald: This is a question for the Minister of Finance. Tracey Connery is a parent of a student in Martin Morigeau Elementary School in Canal Flats. This is a small rural school. She has written to the Min- ister of Education: "Our teachers do an outstanding job. However, they juggle three grade splits. There's no librarian. There's no music pr ogram. There is an inade- quate special needs program." Now, the mayor and council of Canal Flats have passed a motion asking the government to address the issue of educational funding formulas and how they dis- criminate against small rural schools.

This is not a new issue to the Minister of Education, but nothing is changing. The question to the Minister of Finance is this. Will she commit to investigating the issue? Will she under- stand it? And will she fix it, so that small rural schools get the funding they need? Hon. M. de Jong: I would like to thank the member for the question. I'll take it on notice for the Minister of Education. MICHAEL GEOGHEGAN AND LOBBYISTS CODE OF CONDUCT M.

Karagianis: Michael Geoghegan Consulting, on his website, makes the claim that he enjoys "a high level of access to decision -makers and opinion leaders within the government." Next to that statement is a picture of Mr. Geoghegan with the Premier. Mr. Geog- hegan goes on to say: "We use this access not just to get our client meetings with key decision-makers but to get results. And we get results that others can't." Mr. Geoghegan has quite a few pictures of himself with the Premier and other cabinet ministers in the government. But it is funny that Mr.

Geoghegan is not listed anywhere on the lobbyis ts registry, although he is obviously selling access to the Premier and other key decision-makers. My question to the Attorney General is: how can Mr. Geoghegan guarantee access within the registry without being part of the lobbyist registry? Hon. W. Oppal: The Lobbyist Registration Act and the registry were brought in by this government, and they are important tools in ensuring openness and transparency.

I note that the hon. member who asked the question was a ministerial assistant in the previous government, and I wonder out loud why this legisla- tion wasn't brought in by that government when they were in power. I mean, if this is so important, I wonder why they didn't bring it in. If the member has information or evidence relating to any transgression of the law and the failure to regis- ter, then obviously it's her duty to report that to the appropriate authorities. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. Member for Esquimalt-Metchosin has a supplemental. M. Karagianis: I do, hon. Speaker. Yes.

The Basi-Virk scandal ha s clearly shown us the shortcomings with the lobbyists registry. The federal government has recently tightened up the ethics code for their lobbyists registry, and their code was exten- sive and thorough. Here in British Columbia we have no code of conduct for lo bbyists. Mr. Geoghegan, how- ever, does have a code of conduct on his website. Again to the Attorney General, I'd like to ask: are we left to rely on those selling access to this govern- ment to set the ethics bar for government? [1500] Hon. W. Oppal: Is this the Mr. Geoghegan who is a former ministerial assistant to the NDP?

Just a rhetori- cal question. If Mr. Geoghegan is in breach of the regulations and the law and the act, then that's a matter that ought to be brought to the attention of the appropriate au- thority, the Commissioner of Information and Privacy. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. [End of question period.] Reports from Committees J. Rustad: I have the honour to present a report of the Special Committee to Appoint an Ombudsman. I move that the report be taken as read and received. Motion approved. J. Rustad: I ask leave of the House to suspend the rules to permit the moving of a motion to adopt the report.

Leave granted. J. Rustad: I move that the report be adopted. This report constitutes the committee's unanimous recom-

4032 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, APRIL 26, 2006 mendation for the appointment of the fifth Ombuds- man of British Columbia. During our selection process we received 84 applications, many from eminently qualified individuals. Our job was to choose one that stood out above the rest. Interjection. Mr. Speaker: Member, can we have some quiet. It's hard to hear what the member for Prince George– Omineca is reading. Continue, member. J. Rustad: Our job was to choose the one that stood out above the rest, and it's that individual we are rec- ommending to you today.

The committee is very pleased to recommend Ms. Kim Carter to the House. Kim Carter has over 20 years' experience in administra- tive law, criminal law, policy development and public administration. She has most recently served as chief military judge of the Canadian Forces. During her ca- reer, she also served as a director of military prosecu- tions; deputy judge advocate general, litigation; senior counsel for the Canadian Forces before the Somalia Commission of Inquiry; and director of international law for the Canadian Forces. All members of the committee are confident that Ms.

Carter's expertise, commitment to fairness and balanced approach will allow her to build upon the strong foundations established by her predecessor, Mr. Howard Kushner. Ms. Carter was not able to be here today, as she is in Ottawa wrapping up her responsi- bilities there. I'm sure that I'll soon have the opportu- nity to introduce her to the House. L. Krog: As one of the members of the committee and co-Chair, I simply want to express the thanks of all members of the committee to this Legislature for the trust reposed in us in doing this important work.

I must say I am absolutely confident, as we all are on that committee, that we have selected an outstanding candidate who will prove to be one of the best ap- pointments to any office in this province. Motion approved. J. Rustad: I ask leave of the House to permit the moving of a motion requesting the Lieutenant- Governor to appoint Ms. Kim Carter as Ombudsman for the province of British Columbia. Leave granted. J. Rustad: I move that this House recommend to Her Honour the Lieutenant-Governor the appointment of Ms.

Kim Carter as the statutory officer of the Legisla- ture to exercise the powers and duties assigned to the Ombudsman for the province of British Columbia pur- suant to the Ombudsman Act, RSBC, 1996,

chapter 340. Motion approved. Orders of the Day Hon. M. de Jong: In this chamber I call continued committee stage debate on Bill 24, the Resort Timber Administration Act, and in

Section A, continued esti- mates debate. For the information of members, it's the estimates of the Ministry of Advanced Education. [1505] Committee of the Whole House RESORT TIMBER ADMINISTRATION ACT (continued) The House in Committee of the Whole (Section

B) on Bill 24; S. Hawkins in the chair. The committee met at 3:07 p.m. On

section 1 (continued). N. Simons: I guess we'll just start off where we ended yesterday after that lengthy debate. For the pur- poses of those in the gallery , we're continuing the de- bate on Bill 24. I'm trying to find out, in

section 1, a bit about the

definitions. I'll wait until the Chair has re- solved a question. All is well; all right. Carrying on. Yesterday I asked the question if the minister specifically could describe to the House the process used to establish recreation areas, whether or not that was in policy or in legisla- tion and what the involvement of the public was. My question, to follow up. Many land use deci- sions involve a public procedure and require public involvement before a government decision is made. Is the process that establishes CRAs, in fact, a public one? Hon. O.

Ilich: I would like to outline for the mem- bers opposite — because I think there's some confusion as to what we're trying to do here with this act — what it is that gets you to a controlled recreation area. The process is a lengthy one. The average time it takes is about 96 months to get through. That's the av- erage time. We have some longer ones, which the members opposite are aware of — such as Jumbo, which has now, I think, been in the process for 14 years. But I'm just going to outline all the steps that it takes. As I said, 96 months is an average time for this to go through.

It is a policy that has been in the govern- ment, and that the government has been using, for 25 years — the commercial alpine ski policy. I'd just like to go through the various steps for the resort approval and consultation requirements to get us to a controlled recreation area. Stage one is the proposal process. Proponents sub- mit an expression of interest to the ministry, a written statement of interest outlining the resort development concept. Key agencies and first nations are contacted at this stage to determine if there are any significant is- sues that would prevent a fo rmal proposal from being

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 26, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 4033 considered. Expressions of interest are advertised in local newspapers to determine public opinion. Stage two is the review of the formal proposal, and that's if it gets to the formal proposal.

This is a more detailed conceptual development plan that provides a technical assessment of the area to be developed, a statement of the business case, an assessment of envi- ronmental and land use issu es, and proposed mitiga- tion measures. [1510] If the review of the expression of interest finds that the project can move forward to the next stage, a for- mal proposal is requested. Referrals to first nations, relevant provincial and fe deral government agencies, local government and other stakeholders are made at that stage as well.

An interagency review te am is established to re- view formal proposals and provide input into the land use decisions. Public meetings are held to solicit input into the land use proposal . The formal proposal is evaluated, and if acceptable, an interim agreement is signed between the ministry and the proponent. The interim agreement allows the proponent to conduct investigative studies and requires the proponent to prepare a resort master plan. This leads us to the next stage — the environmental assessment review process.

If the process is reviewable under the act, then the revi ew occurs during the term of the interim agreement.

In general, the environmental assessment contains four main elements: opportunities for all interested parties, including first nations and neighbouring jurisdictions, to identify issues and pro- vide input; technical studies of the relevant environ- mental, social, economic, heritage and health effects of the proposed project are de termined and done; identi- fication of ways to prevent or minimize undesirable effects and to enhance desirable effects are taken into consideration; and consideration of the input of all interested parties in compiling the assessment findings and making recommendations about project acceptabil- ity.

We then move to stage four, if it gets past that stage, which is a review of the resort master plan. The resort master plan is a detailed plan that sets out the phased and orderly recreation and real estate devel- opment, if any, if that is to occur within the controlled recreation area. It provides technical and management information necessary to support the sustainable de- velopment of the resort.

The proponent prepares the resort master plan based on conditions and requirements identified from the earlier environmental as sessment certificate, from first nations consultation, from agency recommenda- tions and from investigative studies that have been done — for instance, as to wildlife, water, sewer, ero- sion, land stability, wildfires, socioeconomic assess- ments, etc., which have all been taken into considera- tion. A draft resort master plan is submitted to the min- istry to ensure identified issues are addressed. The re- sort master plan is reviewed again by an interagency review team.

An open house is held for public review and input. The resort master plan is posted on the web- site for additional public in put. First nations consulta- tion and accommodation discussion is completed at that stage. We then move into the resort approval process. At this stage, decisions made by the ministry to approve the resort master plan are based on an outcome of all the consultations completed. We do a master develop- ment agreement that is issu ed and incorporates all the terms and conditions identified in the resort approval process.

The resort master plan is the legal component of the agreement that sets out th e phased and orderly devel- opment of the resort, and the master development agreement then actually es tablishes the controlled rec- reation area. Local government officials will also some- times come into play at that point. This process has been in place for 25 years under the commercial alpine ski policy. As I said earlier, it takes an average of 96 months to complete. There are many op- portunities for public review and stakeholder inputs. N. Simons: I thank the minister for the explanation.

Can the minister explain whether this is in legislation or regulation? Hon. O. Ilich: The enabling legislation is the Land Act under the Ministry of Lands, Parks and Housing. [1515] N. Simons: The alpine ski or alpine resort policy, I understand, was slated to be replaced. I'm wondering if there's any guarantee that the stringent regulations as described will be carried forward in any new regula- tion or policy. Hon. O. Ilich: The commercial alpine ski policy, as I said, has been in force and effect for 25 years.

It is something that is taking 96 months for us, on average, to approve with all of the public inputs that I previ- ously talked about. We are l ooking at ways at this mo- ment to streamline that policy, and this current legisla- tion is part of that. We have had a task force to look at what we can do to streamline that. At the moment, resorts are $2 billion of our $10 billion tourism in dustry. There are 25 exist- ing resorts that contribute much to our economy, and we are looking at ways to streamline that. This current legislation in front of you is part of that process. N.

Simons: Is it possible that controlled recreation areas could be designated within any provincial parks? Hon. O. Ilich: No, not with this legislation. N. Simons: My concern isn't so much with whether it's possible under this legislation. But is there any pol- icy that prohibits the inclusio n of parks in an area that would be under consideration for controlled recreation areas?

4034 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, APRIL 26, 2006 Hon. O. Ilich: This legislation does not contemplate actually creating any controlled recreation areas. The controlled recreation areas are created by the process that I just outlined. These are policies, and we concern ourselves with policies that are outside of parks and under the Land Act. We don't have any intention to do anything with this legislation under the Park Act. N. Simons: Can the minister let the House know how many square kilometres are currently designated as controlled recreation areas in B.C.? Hon. O.

Ilich: We do currently have a list of 25 con- trolled recreation areas. We don't have it in square miles, but we do have it in hectares. I can give you that if you would like. I can give you the complete list.

If somebody with a calculator wants to add it up and figure out how many kilometres that is, then we can do that. [1520] The areas, generally, are Crystal Mountain ski re- sort, 2,884 hectares; Kicking Horse, 1,697 hectares; Whitewater Resort, 1,314 hectares; Big White, 3,525 hectares; Silver Star, 3,264 hectares; Apex Mountain, 732 hectares; Fernie Alpine Resort, 1,103 hectares; Panorama Mountain Village, 3,438 hectares; Powder King Mountain Resort, 2,027 hectares; Sun Peaks Mountain Resort, 4,108 hectares; Whistler Resort, 3,700 hectares; Blackcomb, 2,076; Mount Mackenzie, 5,160 hectares; and Canoe Mountain Resort, 2,196.

Those are the resorts currently operating with mas- ter development agreements. There are 14 of them. In addition to that, there are some that are working under resort operating agreements, which are a little bit dif- ferent but also have controlled recreation areas. Would you like me to list those as well? They're a bit smaller — some of them. N. Simons: Perhaps I'll get a list of those later, when I can use my BlackBerry and do the calculations. That is a significant amount of land, I understand, a n d I j u s t w a n t t o m a k e s u r e … .

T h e p u r p o s e o f t h i s process and the reason I'm asking these questions should be taken with the understanding that it's impor- tant to vet these issues, as this is part of the process of establishing legislation. In no way am I attempting to criticize or to otherwise denigrate the plan, but I do want to make sure that the policy and the legislation are good policy and good legislation. In particular, there are always areas seen from other sets of eyes that could use some help.

My question is: could there be controlled recreation areas designated for lands that have been included in the new conservancy areas that we've just heard about earlier today and proposed by the Minister of Envi- ronment? Hon. O. Ilich: The answer is no. N. Simons: Does the legislation allow for, or does it specifically exclude the auth ority of the Ministry of Tourism, Sport and the Arts to make decisions about harvesting of timber around resorts in parks? Hon. O. Ilich: The answer is no. N.

Simons: One concern that's been raised about the establishment of commercial recreation areas is that it could reduce the amount of the province's annual allowable cut, which could, of course, have an impact on harvesting on tenure holders. What assurances can the minister give to stakeholders concerned with this possibility? Hon. O. Ilich: The Resort Timber Administration Act does not in itself reduce existing timber harvesting rights or allowable annual cuts.

The province's chief forester will continue to make decisions regarding al- lowable annual cuts based on a range of factors, includ- ing land use allocation decisions. Existing timber har- vesting rights will continue to be administered under their respective terms and conditions and in accor- dance with current legislation. A. Dix: I ask leave to make an introduction. Leave granted. Introductions by Members A. Dix: I wanted to welcome and introduce stu- dents, parents and teachers from Norquay Elementary School in my constituency, wh o are visiting us here in the precincts today.

They're going to have the opportu- nity to listen to a very important debate involving the Ministry of Tourism, and I want to wish them welcome on behalf of all members of the House. [1525] Debate Continued M. Sather: I wanted to ask the minister a further question, just to clarify on the issue of parks. My under- standing is — and if I'm incorrect about this, I'm sure the minister will correct me — that the minister has said unequivocally that this legi slation will not be used in any way to facilitate the development of resorts in parks.

That is not the perception that the public has at this point, and that needs to be clarified.

For example, a recent headline in one of my local papers said, with respect to this legislation: "Province simplifies resort development in parks." The fi rst line says: "By May it could be much easier for alpine resort developers to begin building in provincial parks like Golden Ears." I f I a m c o r r e c t i n u n d e r s t a n d i n g t h a t t h a t i s u n - equivocally incorrect and that this legislation in no way will be used to facilitate development in parks, could the minister commit to getting that word out to the public so that is clearly understood? Hon. O.

Ilich: This legislation is only to transfer the rights that the Forests Ministry has at the moment to

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 26, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 4035 cut down trees in controlled recreation areas, which is Crown land administered curre ntly by the Ministry of Tourism, Sport and the Arts . Parks are outside our ju- risdiction, and we will not be using this legislation in any way to deal with any trees in parks. N. Simons: One question that might actually allevi- ate some concerns is whethe r or not this legislation really simply applies to alpine and downhill skiing — alpine resorts — or if it applies to all forms of wilder- ness recreation or back-country recreation. Hon. O.

Ilich: This legislation applies only to con- trolled recreation areas that are currently operating under master development agreements with the ministry, and that is all. It specifically says that in one of the sections, which I think we're going to look at in a few minutes. N. Simons: When we get there, I'm sure all our minds will be put at ease. Some stakeholders have asked if the lands covered by the legislation have to be associated with a specific facility or a facility for ac- commodation.

In other words, could a recreation area like the one we've just talked about a lot refer, for ex- ample, to a river landing for rafters or a helicopter landing pad, fuel storage sites, wilderness access roads or wilderness campgrounds? The list goes on. I'm just curious about how this legislation may or may not im- pact on those. Hon. O. Ilich: The answer is no. The intent of this legislation is to transfer and streamline what we cur- rently do when we have trees that are in a development area, in the controlled recreation area and the controlled recreation area only.

The current process is that we have to send people to the Forests and Range Ministry to ask them to cut down a tree that is on a ski hill. What the resort task force has asked for is that we streamline it so that they have one-stop shopping, one- window shopping, for their approvals. That is the in- tent of this. This legislation restricts itself to controlled recreation areas within a pproved master development areas that are operating with an approved master de- velopment agreement and have a plan attached to it. N.

Simons: I guess that doesn't seem to be clear to the stakeholders who have expressed their concerns to us that it has perhaps been described as a couple of trees on the ski hill. Many resorts, and many situated within a controlled recreation area, may consider ex- pansion and various numbers of things that may or may not be covered under the master agreement, which is regulated by regulation as opposed to legislation. [1530] The possibility always exists that changes in regula- tion will open the door wide .

So the question that I'm trying to have answered — and through this process, perhaps it will be — is: are those fears unwarranted? Hon. O. Ilich: Yes, those fears would be un- founded. The intent of this legislation is to deal only with ski hills that are intensively used at the moment. I think the only exception to that would be Valemount, which is Canoe Mountain. N.

Simons: I'm just wondering why that wouldn't be included in the legislation if that's in fact the intent, because wilderness and back country and all sorts of recreation is such an import ant part of our provincial economy and one that we want to encourage. I know the laudable goal of doubling tourism by 2015 is one that we agree with. I just thin k that it's important to do it with careful and due consideration. Is there a particular reason…? For example, all- seasons resort. Could the minister elaborate on this definition?

Could it possibly include in the future — whether it does now or not — such resorts that cater to back-country skiing or fishin g or hiking or snowmobi- ling or ATVing or campgrounds or horseback riding or wilderness lodges, which could potentially be part of a controlled recreation area? Hon. O. Ilich: As I have stated before, the intent is to deal with controlled recreation areas. The controlled recreation areas — and we've defined that in the legis- lation — are the subject of those many, many steps that I talked about earlier.

I can tell you that it's not some- thing that's going to be used for very small enterprises. These are major resort developments. As I said earlier, we've only got 25 of them in the province right now. We are looking to help them with the administration of the trees within their recreation areas right now. But we will not be using such a lengthy process to approve small campsites or trails and such smaller ventures. N. Simons: My concern is that the intent of the leg- islation is one thing, but what it could lead to under a less benevolent regime in the future is abuses of legisla- tion.

I'm not suggesting that will ever happen, of course, as my hon. friends across…. Interjection. N. Simons: No. Ultimately, the concern that we have is that if…. I should correct the minister, if I'm not incorrect myself, that what a controlled recreation area is, in fact, is not defined under legislation. It's defined under regulation.

Regulation does not require the scrutiny of legislators in order to make changes. [1535] So in the future, should the purpose of controlled recreation areas be expanded to include such things as river rafting or back-country snowmobiling — which I might enjoy quite a bit myself, I might add — or any other activity that takes up large areas and tenures that include many hectares, this is what we're anticipating to be a potential problem. We're talking about con- trolled recreation areas in the back country, large pos- sibilities for forestry to take place, and the conflicts that exist in that area.

4036 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, APRIL 26, 2006 To repeat, I'm not specifically referring to little campgrounds or tenting sites or what have you, but the land included in the recrea tion areas in the future could in fact be thousands of hectares. Consequently, the timber harvesting that occurs in those areas could possibly be large-scale projects. Hon. O. Ilich: The controlled recreation area is legally defined in a resort master agreement, which has a plan attached to it. That is what we have the long process to get to.

It is designated by regulation, but at this mo- ment I can't see changing regulations that we have un- der the Land Act. There is enabling legislation which allows us to create controlled recreation areas. I can't imagine us going through this long process for other types of recreational pursuits on Crown land. N. Simons: Just a little clarification for me. Do all the existing facilities captured in the

definitions of "re- sort" have controlled recreation areas around them — the 25 that were mentioned by the minister earlier? Hon. O. Ilich: Yes, they do. M. Sather: A question for the minister on the speci- fied enactment. It says that the designation of such a provision as a specified enac tment transfers duties un- der the provision from the relevant officials of the Min- istry of Forests and Range to the Minister of Tourism, Sport and the Arts.

I know the minister explained earlier, in some re- spect, that there's a multifaceted process that it has to go through here with regard to the duties that would be carried out. But could you explain to me: if the min- ister is now responsible for th e actual duties of the for- estry officials, how is that different than it would have been before? What authority does the minister have, in fact? Or are the Ministry of Forests people still coming in and doing work as they would before? How does that work on the ground? [1540] Hon. O.

Ilich: In answer to your question, the Min- istry of Tourism, Sport and the Arts will be issuing the licence to cut. However, we will be doing so pursuant to a memorandum of understanding that we have with the Ministry of Forests and Range. They will still be responsible for the collection of stumpage and for en- forcement and compliance and for managing forest health within their forestry area. N.

Simons: To the minister: you mentioned yester- day that numerous stakeholders have expressed con- cern about what appears to be a large amount of discre- tion left to the Ministry of Tourism, Sport and the Arts over decisions that were pr eviously, as the minister mentioned, under the jurisdiction of the Ministry of Forests and Range.

Decisions around issues such as roadbuilding, wildlife habitat, water diversion and culverts, not to mention reforestation, waste disposal, etc., will be left to employees of the Tourism Ministry, whose mandate it is to assist government in achieving its goal of dou- bling tourism by 2015 — which the tourism industry knows that I support. Can the minister outline what safeguards around these important issues will remain in place? Hon. O. Ilich: As I outlined earlier, the proposal process for commercial alpine ski areas is a lengthy o n e .

A l l o f t h e t h i n g s t h a t y o u w e r e j u s t a s k i n g a b o u t are dealt with during that lengthy process. The controlled recreation area is defined, as I said a minute ago, in the resort master plan, which has al- ready dealt with all of thos e issues usually under an Environmental Assessment Act review.

As I said ear- lier, it does take, on average, 96 months to get through that process, which is a ve ry lengthy time period dur- ing which all of those issues can be fully investigated and we can make sure that we're not doing anything we wouldn't want to do environmentally for any of our Crown land. N. Simons: I just wanted to make sure that when we're talking about the master plans which are estab- lished before the establishment of the resort….

But this legislation could impact after the establishment of the resort while, as the minister might have men- tioned, cutting down some trees in order to rehabili- t a t e t h e p a r t i c u l a r a l p i n e s k i h i l l . T h a t w o u l d p r e - sumably not require another 96-month process in or- der to change the master plan in order to allow timber harvesting. There's the process that takes place before the mas- ter agreement has been sign ed and then the process once the controlled recreation area has already been established and may be in existence for ten, 15 or 20 years.

That's, I think, where some concern might re- main. [1545] Hon. O. Ilich: I should make the members opposite aware that the master development agreement itself contains all sorts of conditions to regulate what goes on in the controlled recreation areas, including all things that would concern themselves with the environment, health, the operation of the agreement, safety. All of the local land use and governmental regulations apply, and the Forest Act still would apply, so it does not cir- cumvent in any way all of th e laws of the land that would normally apply.

Section 1 approved. On

section 2. N. Simons: Under this

section the minister can delegate powers and duties under this act to an em- ployee of the Ministry of To urism, Sport and the Arts. Can the minister name two or three of the job classifica- tions or titles of ministry employees to whom this au- thority may be delegated?

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 26, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 4037 Hon. O. Ilich: The answer to the question would be that the powers could be delegated to the director of resort development for that area or to the major project manager. N. Simons: Is there any requirement, notwithstand- ing the MOU, which we haven't seen, that these indi- viduals have any knowledge or experience working in their areas of wildlife management or hydrology or forestry? Hon. O. Ilich: Some of the staff that we currently have in the ministry are professional agrologists and professional foresters, and they have that professional designation.

We are going to be hiring a timber techni- cian. In addition, all of the rules and regulations of the Forest and Range Practices Act still apply, and under the memorandum of understanding, we will still be dealing with the staff there. The intent of this legislation is that we will be doing this a little bit more quickly. We will be focusing on the trees in the controlled recreation area, because it is a priority for us, and it's not as much of a priority for the people that work for the Ministry of Forests. N.

Simons: Can the minister let the House know what role the forestry technician wi l l p l a y i n r e l a t i o n t o t h a t MOU and whether that is an advisory role, a decision- making role or what. [1550] Hon. O. Ilich: They will be in an advisory capacity. They're going to be doing fi eld inspections. The resort developer would normally do things like timber cruises. They will inspect th e timber cruises and help arrange for timber cruises.

They're going to look for and protect any special values, and they're going to continue to liaise with the forestry officers that will continue to operate under the Forest and Range Prac- tices Act. B. Simpson: I want to be clear on a couple of points here. First off, the basic intent of this act is to expedite the process for removal of timber and so on in a de- fined recreation area and to give those who have a de- fined recreation area and a resort one window to come to, so they don't have to go to the Ministry of Forests and Range? Is that correct?

It expedites the process and allows them to come to the ministry as opposed to go- ing to the Ministry of Forests and Range? Hon. O. Ilich: Yes. Exactly. That's exactly what we're trying to do — and just to expedite the process. B. Simpson: If I understood the answers to the last questions correctly, the work is still going to be done under the Forest Act by Ministry of Forests and Range staff. They're still going to do the approval process. They're still going to go through all of the activities they would normally carry on if this was going through their offices. Is that correct? Hon. O.

Ilich: It is the intent that our staff will be performing those functions, but they will be continuing to liaise with the Ministry of Forests and Range staff, and the Ministry of Forests and Range staff will be do- ing the enforcement and compliance until we get up to speed on that. B. Simpson: What's the nature of the MOU with MOFR for the functions that they're going to conduct? I'm confused now, because before, the minister indi- cated that the normal functi onal responsibilities were going to be conducted by MOFR staff under an MOU with the Ministry of Tourism.

Now the minister is say- ing that her staff is going to conduct the normal MOFR functions. Therefore, what is the nature of the MOU? [1555] Hon. O. Ilich: The memorandum of understanding between our ministry and the Ministry of Forests and Range does set out who is responsible for what within the controlled recreation area. The Forests Ministry continues to be responsible for forest health, forest pro- tection and forestry tenures that might be within a con- trolled recreation area. We would be happy to provide the members opposite with a full copy of the memo- randum of understanding once it's signed off. B.

Simpson: Again, one of the points that the minis- ter made was that the Ministry of Forests and Range doesn't have, as a priority for them, the kind of activi- ties that need to be conduc ted on a defined recreation area. It's slow in the queu e. They've got a whole bunch of other things on the go, but if they're going to con- tinue to have residual responsibilities — particularly if it's in somebody's TFL, if there's an FSP over the area or if there are fire or heal th requirements, whatever the case may be — then MOFR must still be in the process.

I'll stop there and make sure that this is correct before I proceed. Hon. O. Ilich: Yes. That would be correct. B. Simpson: If I understand it correctly, then, the process would be: I come to the Ministry of Tourism, and I have to deal with new people — who are going to be assigned to do the stuff that the Ministry of Tourism wants to do in a defined recreation area.

They're now going to have to turn around and go to MOFR on my behalf to deal with them, then maybe come back to me to get further clarification. [1600] Haven't we just, then, cr eated a situation where, instead of one window, all we've done is put another layer in the approval process? We have two agencies, then, that would potentially have competing interests on the land base and that would have to reconcile their interests on the land base in order to serve the client. If that's the case, why not leave it with the Ministry of Forests and Range, as it is, and find a mechanism to expedite the MOFR process?

To the minister: as I un- derstand it, she hasn't fina lized negotiations of the

4038 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, APRIL 26, 2006 MOU, but it seems to me that this is passing the dele- gated authority to the minist er without the functional capabilities on the ground to actually expedite the process. How will that be reconciled? The Chair: Member, I must ask if you could explain to the House how your question relates, if it's relevant, to

section 2 that's being questioned. B. Simpson: Madam Chair,

section 2 delegates the powers and responsibilities from the minister to an employee. The employee will th en have to act on that. If the employee is constrained by activities that are still done by the Ministry of Forests and Range, we need to understand what the nature of that employee's work is. The Chair: Member, could you explain to the House how your question is relevant to this

section on "minister may delegate powers and duties" — in sec- tion 2 — to an employee in her ministry? B. Simpson: I tried to explain, and I'll explain again. This is a delegation of the Tourism Minister's powers to an explicit empl oyee in the ministry. We're trying to understand the nature of that employee's functionality.

If that employee is going to be responsi- ble for expediting permitting and approval processes, w e n e e d t o k n o w w h a t r e m a i n s w i t h t h e M i n i s t r y o f Forests and Range and what comes over to the Minis- try of Tourism, so that we understand what the nature of this employee's responsibilities are. Hon. O. Ilich: What will come to the Ministry of Tourism is a request for an occupant licence to cut, and that is what we will be approving. B. Simpson: To the minister: is it an occupant li- cence to cut or a master licence to cut? Hon. O. Ilich: It's an occupant licence to cut. N.

Simons: I'm just curious about this delegation. Will it be an ongoing delegation? In other words, will the authority be given to an employee for one-time approvals? Will this be a permanent position or a new role for that employee? Hon. O. Ilich: It will be a delegated authority to whoever holds that position , until he does not hold that position any longer.

Section 2 approved. On

section 3. N. Simons:

Section 3(1) reads: "In relation to a con- trolled recreation area or an all seasons resort in a con- trolled recreation area, the tourism minister, instead of any official referred to in a specified enactment," has the power, etc. I'm wondering what is meant by "any official referred to in a specified enactment." [1605] [J. Yap in the chair.] Hon. O. Ilich: The Forest Act currently has in it that the regional manager or district manager may enter into a forestry licence to cut. That will be transferred…. This

section says that what ever they are now author- ized to issue, we will be allowed to issue in the Minis- try of Tourism. B. Simpson: Again, the delegation and transfer of powers over to the Tourism Minister is an area that — I know the minister is well aware — has raised concerns even within the forest sector . We need to be very clear on what is transferred and, also, clear with respect to the desire to expedite the approval process. We need to get a little bit of clarity on this.

With respect to normal functions under the Ministry of Forests and Range that would occur within this speci- fied recreation area — s o m e o f t h e w o r k t h a t ' s b e i n g done on allowable cut determinations under DFAM, for example…. If a licensee has a TFL within the area and there is some DFAM activity underway, will that still continue within the Ministry of Forests and Range? Hon. O. Ilich: The answer is yes. B.

Simpson: If, then, the Ministry of Forests and Range has some explicit activities ongoing in that area with respect to forest health, salvage activities or silvicul- tural prescriptions — things like that — will that remain within the domain of the Ministry of Forests and Range? Hon. O. Ilich: Yes, it will. It will stay with Forests and Range. B. Simpson: What exactly, then, are the powers that are being conferred on the Tourism Minister that will expedite the activities that the ministry wishes to expe- dite? If I understand it correctly, the person gets an occupant licence to cut.

Is that actually transferred to the Ministry of Tourism to issue that occupant licence to cut? Is that the only thing that's being conferred here on the minister's watch? [1610] Hon. O. Ilich: The act will be used to grant the Minister of Tourism, Sport and the Arts the power to issue an occupant licence to cut to a resort developer or an operator under

section 47.4 of the Forest Act or a forestry licence to cut to authorize timber harvesting by persons other than the resort operator under

section 47.6 of the Forest Act. The other forestry licence to cut will be when there has been an existing forest licence to cut where we would perhaps be negotiating a transfer or making some sort of compensation, but it's all within a controlled recreation area. B. Simpson: Again, my struggle is with where the efficiencies come from in this. In order to issue those licences, all of the other wo rk has to be done around

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 26, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 4039 impacts — for example, the impacts on allowable cut, forest health, fire and silviculture — on existing licen- sees. In order to issue an occupant licence to cut, the Ministry of Tourism staff, if I understand it correctly, will then have to do all th at due diligence with the Ministry of Forests and Range staff,

whereas before the person used to be able to go to the Ministry of Forests and Range directly and have the work done and en- gage them directly in that conversation. Once again to the minister: how is this not simply putting another party in between the proponent and the Ministry of Forests and Range? How is this going to get us efficiencies or expedite the process? Hon. O.

Ilich: I think the answer to the question is that most of the timber values would have already been dealt with and all of the issues related to the for- ests on the land would have been dealt with under the long process that we have to get to the controlled rec- reation area under the mast er development agreement, which sets out what's going to happen on the plan. At the moment we would be dealing with two separate applications.

We're going to be dealing with an appli- cation to the Ministry of Tourism, Sport and the Arts and also a separate application to the Ministry of For- ests and Range. [1615] What we're looking at, for the most part, are areas where there has already been a determination. It's al- ready been looked at, and we would be allowed to is- sue that licence to cut. B. Simpson: I f t h a t ' s t h e c a s e , i f i t ' s o n l y t h a t e x - plicit one issuance of the occupant licence to cut, why isn't it just made explicit here that that's what's being transferred, as opposed to what in both this

section and the

section to come are the full responsibilities under the Ministry of Forests and Range being transferred over to the minister? Again, what we have, as the member before me spoke to, is that there is some intention here, and then there is what the legislation allows. Conceivably, as we go into the future and as we've already seen, there is some question around what constitutes this defined recreation area, and there is a looseness there. The min- ister is talking about a long process now, but conceiva- bly, that process could be shortened, in which case a lot of this work hasn't been done.

What this legislation allows , then, is a full transfer of responsibilities for a lot of that other work to the Ministry of Tourism. For a licensee, is it not possible then…? If I'm a licensee not doing the application, now I've got two ministries that I have to deal with. Hon. O. Ilich: I would just like to say one more time that this is not a loos e process. To get to a con- trolled recreation area, agai n, is a long, long process — something where, by the time we get to it, a lot of the values have been determined.

What we are looking at here is enabling legislation, which will allow us by regulation to take a look at those sections of the Forest Act that need to be transferred in order to expedite the process to allow a developer to cut down trees on a ski hill or within an area that they believe they can de- velop for condos. It is part of their master plan, subject to the agree- ment. All of the normal rules, regulations and laws will continue to apply. [1620] B. Simpson: I take the minister's point.

It's a long process to get there, but this w i l l a l s o b e g i v i n g t h e minister powers over a defined area of the land base, and the land base doesn't stay static. The land base changes. The land base is subjected to pests, climate change; it's subjected to all kinds of things that will impact the master plan post its approval. This has im- plications for other users, who then have to be engaged in processes and decision-making with respect to tim- ber.

What this does is pass all of the responsibilities of the Ministry of Forests and Range, not just the issuance of the occupant licence to cut but all of the responsibili- ties under the enactment, to the minister. So the ques- tion is: if I'm a licensee who has done a negotiation in the early process and now we've got a change and something has to change, who am I negotiating with? Do I do it with the Ministry of Forests and Range now? Do I do it with the Ministry of Tourism? Or am I stuck doing it with both of them? It's not the one with the resort but the other people who will be impacted.

Just so the minister has a frame of reference for this, because it is in the next section, the next

section does allow the minister authority to change the boundaries post that long process. My ques- tion to the minister is…. Within the delegation of pow- ers in this section, all of the powers and responsibilities have come over. Can the minister guarantee to me that other users and people with legal rights within the defined recreation area don't end up going to two min- istries now, so you've served one interest and then burdened the rest of the in terests with more bureauc- racy? Hon. O.

Ilich: Anybody else who is wanting to do anything within a controlled recreation area is going to c o n t i n u e t o h a v e t o d e a l w i t h t h e M i n i s t r y o f F o r e s t s and Range. We will only be issuing a forest licence to cut to the occupant. B. Simpson: Again, I understand the point. The intent is for the issuance of the occupant licence to cut. But the transfer of responsibilities here is more of an omnibus transfer of responsibilities to the ministry. The concerns expressed around that are, therefore, from the other users. [1625] I understand the intent.

Wh at we're talking about is what the legislation allows, and it's different from the intent. Let's do an explicit example that had been given to me. If, as we'll see shortly, the Ministry of Tourism

4040 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, APRIL 26, 2006 engages with a resort operator to extend the bounda- ries of a resort and that impacts a tree farm licence holder or someone with a forestry licence that already exists — and may, then, impact their allowable cut — what agency will negotiate that process with the other licence holders? Right now it looks as if the Ministry of Tourism has the authority delegated to them to do what would normally be done by the Ministry of For- ests and Range. Hon. O. Ilich: I think the member opposite is ask- ing what happens if there's a boundary change.

If there is a boundary change, that's a new land use designa- tion for that area, and that will go through that whole, entire, extensive process that I outlined earlier. B. Simpson: Thank you to the minister. I guess we can explore that a little bit in the next section. Let me ask as simple a question as I can. Rather than all powers — because it says, "all powers…." It may just be me not understanding it: "(

a) has all the powers pertaining to a disc retion, function or duty referred to in the specified enactment, and (

b) is charged with all the responsi bilities pertaining to that discretion, function or duty ." If I understand, "the specified enactment" means a provision of the Forests and Range Ministry statutes. If that specified enact- ment is only the occupancy licence to cut, why isn't that enactment named in here so that everybody un- derstands that all the ministry is doing is issuing the occupancy licence to cut to the resort holder? [1630] Hon. O. Ilich: It is the intention at the moment to grant to the Minister of Tourism, Sport and the Arts the power to issue an occupant licence to cut to a re- sort developer under

section 47.4 of the Forest Act — or the forestry licence to cut — and there is the provi- sion that perhaps there may be other powers added later — all to do with the administration of the resort under a master agreement in a controlled recreation area. I would like to add that it is obviously not in the best interests of a resort developer to cut down all the trees and not pay attention to the aesthetics of a devel- opment.

Resort developers need to cut down trees that are on ski hills and trees around areas that they want to develop, but all of this is subject to the development agreement that they're workin g under. Obviously, it is not in their interest to clearcut the area of a controlled recreation area and thereby deny people the enjoyment that they've come to the resort for. I'd like to also add that we have had significant and lengthy consultation with the resort development task group, which is the resort development constituency in the province, and they are all in favour of this.

It's had extensive consultation with them, and they continue to be in favour of this. While you were talking about some of the stake- holders — that you're interested in — as being con- cerned, I think that the stakeholders we've been talking to, who have been resort de velopers, are very much in favour of this,. They have very much been asking for this, because it comes at the end of a very lengthy process where they have to go and ask for a licence to cut down trees that are in the way of their resort development. That's the intent. I don't think it's the intent to be clear- cutting controlled recreation areas.

B. Simpson: My apologies if I ever gave the sense that what I believed was going to happen here was

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H0426pm-10
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H0426pm 10
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	85270c2bda19a3d069f21078126dfff20ec5215b

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