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April 25, 2013

40th Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2013-Apr-25 (PDF)

L031 - Thu 25 Apr 2013 / Jeu 25 avr 2013

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Thursday 25 April 2013 Jeudi 25 avril 2013

ORDERS OF THE DAY

LOCAL FOOD ACT, 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 SUR

LES ALIMENTS LOCAUX

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

ORAL QUESTIONS

POWER PLANTS

GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY

TAXATION

ONTARIO BUDGET

POWER PLANTS

POWER PLANTS

ONTARIO BUDGET

POWER PLANTS

PROTECTION FOR WORKERS

PROTECTION FOR WORKERS

PAN AM GAMES

GOVERNMENT’S RECORD

PAN AM GAMES

PROPERTY TAXATION

WATER QUALITY

CORRECTION OF RECORD

VISITORS

ANSWERS TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS

LEGISLATIVE PAGES

VISITOR

CORRECTION OF RECORD

CORRECTION OF RECORD

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS

KATE’S KAUSE

HOCKEY FOR HEALTH

VOLUNTEERS

HALEIGH WIGGINS

CLINTON STREET

JUNIOR PUBLIC SCHOOL

MCMASTER CHILDREN’S HOSPITAL OPHTHALMOLOGY CENTRE

REG CHAPPELL

DECA INTERNATIONAL CAREER DEVELOPMENT CONFERENCE

HUCK FINN YOUTH FISHING DAY

NOTICE OF DISSATISFACTION

MOTIONS

AGGREGATE RESOURCES REVIEW

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

AND RESPONSES

NATIONAL DAY OF MOURNING

PETITIONS

SPRINGWATER PROVINCIAL PARK

HYDRO RATES

FAMILY CAREGIVER LEAVE

LAND USE PLANNING

DOG OWNERSHIP

ELECTORAL BOUNDARIES

WATER QUALITY

ANIMAL PROTECTION

CHILDREN’S PSYCHIATRIC MEDICATION

DIAGNOSTIC SERVICES

TIRE DISPOSAL

LONG-TERM CARE

TIRE DISPOSAL

PRIVATE MEMBERS’

PUBLIC BUSINESS

POOLED REGISTERED

PENSION PLANS ACT, 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 SUR LES RÉGIMES

DE PENSION AGRÉÉS COLLECTIFS

HOME CARE

REGISTERED HUMAN RESOURCES

PROFESSIONALS ACT, 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 SUR LES PROFESSIONNELS

EN RESSOURCES HUMAINES INSCRITS

POOLED REGISTERED

PENSION PLANS ACT, 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 SUR LES RÉGIMES

DE PENSION AGRÉÉS COLLECTIFS

HOME CARE

REGISTERED HUMAN RESOURCES

PROFESSIONALS ACT, 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 SUR LES PROFESSIONNELS

EN RESSOURCES HUMAINES INSCRITS

POOLED REGISTERED

PENSION PLANS ACT, 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 SUR LES RÉGIMES

DE PENSION AGRÉÉS COLLECTIFS

ORDERS OF THE DAY

NON-PROFIT HOUSING

CO-OPERATIVES STATUTE LAW AMENDMENT ACT, 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

EN CE QUI CONCERNE

LES COOPÉRATIVES DE LOGEMENT

SANS BUT LUCRATIF

The House met at 0900.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Good morning. Please join me in prayer.

Prayers.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

LOCAL FOOD ACT, 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 SUR

LES ALIMENTS LOCAUX

Resuming the debate adjourned on April 23, 2013, on the motion for second reading of the following bill:

Bill 36,

An Act to enact the Local Food Act, 2013 / Projet de loi 36, Loi édictant la Loi de 2013 sur les aliments locaux.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Further debate?

Ms. Cheri DiNovo: It’s always an honour and a privilege to rise in this House and to rise on behalf of the phenomenal people of Parkdale–High Park, where we have done much to encourage the eating and the production of local food.

I want to send a shout-out right off the top to West End Food Co-op. It started with a few groups—a few very, very persuasive and committed volunteers—and has now grown into a farmers’ market every week and its own store that operates week-long in Parkdale–High Park and that does phenomenal work. But, Mr. Speaker, we’re here to speak about a bill, and the bill, unfortunately, doesn’t help them.

Just so people at home who haven’t read the bill know, all the bill really does is set aside a week called Local Food Week. Quite frankly this bill, so badly and ill-prepared, falls on the same week as Agriculture Week. So the agriculture minister, aka the Premier, who introduced this bill, I’m sure wanting to open up some rapport with farmers, in fact did just the opposite and bit the hand that she wanted to shake by introducing this in the first place.

Then again, local food—even the words—really is more a downtown Toronto issue than it is a rural issue. Most farmers don’t have a problem eating local food. This is a bill aimed at the chattering classes in downtown Toronto. Let me tell you that those folk in downtown Toronto who care about local food have done way more than this bill does. They’ve actually worked hard to start co-ops. My own father was one of the founding members of Karma Co-op, one of the first co-ops ever for local food in Toronto. That started in the 1970s. So from the 1970s on, Torontonians have been active around the local food movement.

Only now, in 2013, does the government pick up the term and introduce a bill that really just declares a week called Local Food Week.

This is absolutely the modus operandi—has been for 10 years—of the Liberal government: to follow rather than initiate, to come in after the fact rather than lead. They’ve done this on every file imaginable: introduce a bill that’s more spin than substance. I’m thinking here of the poverty bill, 25-in-5. This is a government that’s actually on track to increase poverty over their 10-year span by 25% rather than decrease it, but yet, there’s the bill. In that case, the bill was two pages long and simply said, “We’re committed to decreasing poverty by 25% in five years.” Absolutely no way of doing that, no means to do it and no purpose behind it or will to do it; just a bill.

Here we have a bill, the Local Food Act—no procurement policies involved in the bill, no call on even the government and government ministries to actually buy local food, nothing practical, Mr. Speaker, nothing of real substance in this bill, just a week. Just a week declared for local food. In fact we’re sitting in a place, Mr. Speaker, where if you got your coffee from the cafeteria this morning you were drinking Seattle’s Best.

Only in the province of Ontario, in the government of Ontario, would a government have the gumption to bring forward a local food bill while drinking Seattle’s Best coffee in their own cafeteria. Even the words alone—I mean, surely, surely we can do better than that. But yet this bill does not.

Other instances of this government doing exactly the same thing: My colleague here was part of an all-party committee on mental health and addictions; 23 recommendations, of which three have been implemented. Twenty simply go by the wayside. The social assistance review: again, a review that cost a lot of money to taxpayers, just like the mental health committee cost a lot of money to taxpayers. What came out of all this? Virtually nothing.

This government not only brings in bills with words only and no substance but actually studies issues rather than acting on them, and we see this over and over again. We’re seeing this with the great scandals this government has brought forward: Ornge, eHealth, the gas plant problems—all of these studied by committees, and at the end, the committees will make recommendations. Mr. Speaker, do we really have any confidence that this government will act on any of those recommendations? I think it’s safe to say: absolutely none—absolutely none.

So here’s the latest, the latest spin, the latest public relations announcement passing itself off as a legislative action—a bill—when really it’s just a public relations announcement destined for those folk in downtown Toronto who want to hear the words “local food.” Well, you heard it. You got it. Downtown Toronto, you’ve heard: Kathleen Wynne has said local food is important. Meanwhile, the reality in the field is this: About 80% of the fresh fruits and vegetables we eat in this province come from somewhere else. That’s the actual reality on the ground.

The average carrot travels over 3,000 kilometres to get to our markets, even though we could grow all the produce and we could, you know, eat here.

But there’s nothing in the bill to change that whatsoever. Not one iota, not one word in the bill actually addresses the problem of procuring local food, eating it or getting it into our markets. It’s just a week. I was laughing with one of my colleagues that maybe instead of named weeks and named days, this government could actually ask us to wear hats with words on them like “local food” one week and something else the next; maybe “mental health.” It would do about as much good. It would be cuter—at least we’d get a good laugh if we all wore a hat saying “local food”—than if this government brought forward a bill.

But this is no laughing matter, Mr. Speaker. This is real. You know, we are living on a planet whose days are numbered unless we act. We’re living with an agricultural community whose days are numbered if we don’t act to help them. And yet we get local food, the week; not local food action, not local food procurement policy, not local food regulation. No, we get local food, the week. Well, maybe local food, the hat, might be cuter; that’s all I’m saying.

And the problem is, Mr. Speaker, that this is 10 years of this, 10 long years of bills just like this in every file you can imagine, whether it’s mental health, poverty, food. Name it, and this government has brought forward a bill naming a week when they should have acted, naming a day when they should have done something.

I think Ontarians are beginning to wake up. I know in my riding, all the folk who actually do something around local food, like the West End Food Co-op, which has done so much in our own area, all the local farmers’ markets that happen, all the local community gardens that happen in my riding—all of them did it without the help of this government; no help from this government whatsoever in all of that. When I told all these folk about the Local Food Act and what it actually implied, that there’s going to be a week named Local Food Week, none of them were impressed. None of them saw this as a step forward. None of them were fooled.

None of them thought that just because “local food,” the words, come out of the Premier’s mouth, anything much is going to change to help them in their endeavours or in their lives. Not our local food producers, who just lost their Agriculture Week, which spoke far more to their concerns—they weren’t impressed—and not those who sit on the West End Food Co-op, some of whom were invited to a movie yesterday that none of the rest of us, by the way, got to see on local food. None of them were impressed by what this government’s doing.

They see it for what it is: spin, pure and utter spin, a public relations announcement instead of real government policy that would actually change the lives of the people that it impacts. And so it goes.

This, again, from a government that’s supposed to be different—it’s supposed to be different. We weren’t supposed to get the same old same old that we got under the last Premier, Dalton McGuinty. We’re supposed to get something new. But really, what have we seen? We’ve seen the same old bills that were lost during prorogation come forward, and this new bill—yet again, the same kind of bill we’ve seen for 10 years, a bill that says something and does absolutely nothing.

What could they do? I’ve got one minute left to say. Well, we in the New Democratic Party have long since said, “Let’s look at our procurement policies as a government, as ministries.” We spend millions of dollars every year on food. Why don’t we make a procurement policy that requires that we spend at least 25% of that on locally grown food? But that would actually be something; that would actually do something. Instead, they want to name a week.

Again, speaking as a downtown Torontonian, we’re not fooled. I can tell you, the agricultural corridor is not fooled. In fact, they’re upset. They lost their Agriculture Week that this bill runs roughshod over just because whoever designed it didn’t check the calendar correctly. Actually, it helps absolutely no one.

Again, a shout-out to those in the field who are actually doing something: West End Food Co-op, Masaryk-Cowan HOPE Garden and all the others who actually do something, unlike this Liberal government. Thank you very much.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. Grant Crack: I’d like to thank the member from Parkdale–High Park for her comments, but, yet again, I didn’t see anything positive really coming out of there. I was at—

Interjection: It’s unfortunate.

Mr. Grant Crack: It’s unfortunate, yes. I was at Sustain Ontario, the reception here yesterday, and I can tell you there was a lot of enthusiasm in that room—the people who were here supporting Foodland Ontario, supporting this government’s support of Foodland Ontario over the last nine years.

I want to comment on Agriculture Week versus Local Food Week. What I can tell you, Mr. Speaker, with regard to that is, we attempted to put that week at a time when we thought, and think, that it would be complementary to Agriculture Week. The opposition, obviously, thinks differently.

I want to talk about the comment that she raises with regard to 80% of fruits and vegetables coming from somewhere else. I’ve spoken to retailers. I was at the Foodland Ontario Retailer Awards a couple of weeks back, and I can tell you what they’re telling me is that they need to make sure that they have enough product on the shelves at all times. Consumer demand is paramount for profits for retail, such as Sobeys and Metro. I think it’s no secret that I was fortunate enough to be a part of those retailer awards. I’m in the flyer presenting and congratulating those who do so well at showcasing local foods in those larger chains.

They’re telling me that there is volatility in Ontario when it comes to ensuring that there’s an adequate supply. Last year, for example, we experienced an early spring. Buds in the fruit trees came out and crops were damaged. So how are we supposed to ever legislate targets, which the opposition and the third party are suggesting? It’s just not possible here in Ontario.

I have quite a bit more I’d like to say in congratulating the good work that people do in local food, and I guess I’ll have to wait.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. Toby Barrett: Our member for Parkdale–High Park gave us a kind of morning wake-up call from the urban perspective. I used to have a rooster like that, but it would crow about three hours earlier to get us going. I hated that rooster—but I don’t hate Cheri. You crow at 9:15; that’s more reasonable.

The member opposite indicated that there was not much positive in the presentation, and I agree with both parties: There isn’t much positive to say about this legislation. There are shortcomings—a lot that is not said. Sure, we’re talking about declaring yet another week, a Local Food Week. That has been done. That was done—I think it was 1998. Bert Johnson, an MPP in this House for a number of years, brought in Agriculture Week. As I recall, I attended the launch down at Toronto city hall.

The member for Parkdale–High Park mentioned somewhat facetiously, “Well, there will probably be another hat, a local food hat or a Local Food Week hat.” I’ve probably got a hat that says that; I think I’ve got about 150 tractor hats, in just about every vehicle that I own and every building that I own. Sometimes those slogans work. I’m sure the members opposite will probably show up at the plowing match with their red rubber boots and their Local Food Week hats. That’s one prediction that I will make, so we’ll stay tuned for that one.

Sometimes the slogans work. I think of the power behind that expression “farmers feed cities,” which again, is something the member from Parkdale–High Park is fully aware of.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The member for Davenport.

Mr. Jonah Schein: I’m pleased to join the debate this morning on the Local Food Act and to comment on remarks made by the member from Parkdale–High Park. I agree with her in so many ways that this is just the tip of the iceberg. This is symbolic and little else. The symbolism is really important if we could put some substance behind it.

I brought a friend of mine into the Legislature earlier this week who has been an advocate for sustainable food for years. She spent a decade of her life working on these issues. She was very interested—she had never been in this building—and she sat in the gallery and listened to debate. She said, “What are people talking about? They are just listing food items. They are just listing the names of markets and gardens. Where’s the substance of this bill?” She thought she was missing something. I had the misfortune to say, “No, this is just the quality of debate in this House at this moment.”

There is so much that can be done that should be done to support agriculture in Ontario, to support more sustainable forms of agriculture. There are actual policy initiatives that could be done. If you look to Quebec, Quebec is supporting young farmers. People are coming out of school—because the older generation is packing up and the younger generation don’t know if they can farm—and Quebec is supporting farmers there. We’re not doing that, and there’s nothing in this bill to suggest that.

Folks like Sustain Ontario have talked about the need for actual education around food. They’ve made those suggestions. They were here yesterday. There’s nothing in this act that’s actually going to talk about how to do that in our schools. I read something this morning about farmers saying, “We should have home economics in our schools.” That’s not here, Speaker.

There is so much more that needs to be done. As a Toronto member, I’ve had the opportunity to travel a little bit in my time here and to go to northern Ontario, where people don’t have access to affordable food. Why don’t we have in this bill something that will support northern communities and northern aboriginal communities that are struggling with the health impacts of not having that access? I wish we could elevate the debate here and put some real substance in this bill.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Ms. Soo Wong: I’m pleased to rise to speak about Bill 36. I do recognize the member from Parkdale–High Park and her comments. The bill is not just about the city of Toronto. As a member from the city of Toronto, I don’t believe this bill is about just the city of Toronto.

It is clearly laid out, Mr. Speaker—the three purposes of the bill. So I’m going to remind the member opposite. It says clearly here that the purposes of this act are to:

“1. To foster successful and resilient local food economies and systems throughout Ontario.

“2. To increase awareness of local food in Ontario, including the diversity of local food.

“3. To encourage the development of new markets for local food.”

Mr. Speaker, when we have international guests visiting Ontario, they consistently say how proud they are, how safe our food is and what good quality our food is.

I know this is the right thing to do. There’s no question we need to raise the level of conversation, because we know the agriculture-food industry is one of the largest in this province, and each one of us in this House is very proud of this sector.

More importantly, I remember yesterday morning attending the breakfast with OFA members. They have told us, “Please, when you bring this bill through, put in some more substance about the whole issue of food literacy,” which we can all do. As someone formerly from the Toronto District School Board, I already connected with them. So at the end of the day, there are things already being done about food literacy. The new term is not “home economics”; that’s not sexy enough for young people to do.

They like the fact that the technology piece and the food-cooking shows and food networks are bringing young people and encouraging food strategies, but also affordability and sustainability. This is the right thing to do: to champion this very successful sector.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The member for Parkdale–High Park, you have two minutes for a response.

Ms. Cheri DiNovo: Thanks to everyone who weighed in on this debate. The member from Scarborough–Agincourt talked about how people love our food when they come to Ontario. Too bad 80% of it doesn’t come from here, our fruits and vegetables. That’s my point, Mr. Speaker. The point is that this bill does nothing to change the reality of food and local food in Ontario whatsoever. That’s the point. Still, 80% of it is imported fruits and vegetables—fruits and vegetables that could be grown here, that could be marketed here. Still, the average carrot travels almost 4,000 kilometres to get to our market here.

Still, this bill changes nothing. It changes nothing about what we eat even in this Legislature. It changes nothing about what governments buy or ministries buy. No wonder those who are involved in agriculture said, “Put some meat on the bones of this bill,” because this bill is all bone, no meat. All it says is, “We encourage people to eat local food. Let’s have a local food week.”

We’re going to use hours and hours of our time in this Legislature debating this bill—and yes, she’s right: When it gets to committee, will we try to add something to it? Absolutely. But come on. It is the government’s job to actually bring in legislation that changes people’s lives and helps folk. This doesn’t change anybody’s life and it doesn’t help anybody. Now they’re relying on the opposition to make this bill into a bill, and not just a public relations statement. That’s not governing. That’s not leading. What is that? That is simply pandering.

The reason I raised downtown Toronto is because that’s where local food has the greatest meaning. As I said, farmers already eat locally. It’s about getting that local food to market, to these great capital centres of ours, including downtown Toronto.

So again, will we put meat on the bones of the bill? We’ll try. That’s all I can say about it. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Further debate?

Mr. Rod Jackson: For the sake of the 13.4 million people who call Ontario home and want to buy fresh Ontario local food for their families and businesses, and for sake of the 164,000 people whose jobs are generated by the Ontario farming sector, I’d hoped, and I think many of my PC colleagues and other colleagues in the House had hoped, that we would be proven wrong when we said that Premier Wynne could not take on both the job of Premier and the job of agriculture—and food, let’s not forget that part; it’s critically important.

Unfortunately, this window-dressing bill—and this is another one; we see examples of these window-dressing bills all the time—has proven both me and the rest of my PC caucus right.

During her leadership run, the Premier promised a strengthened Local Food Act. I know many in the food and agriculture industry were excited for this new act. Many in the industry and many in our caucus put forward concrete proposals for the act that would have strengthened our food system, increased access to local food and helped our agriculture sector, which continually struggles a little bit more every year.

In fact, I think most people in Ontario were happy to hear of a bill to support Ontario food. Obviously, promoting local food is a concept that I think everybody can get behind. As a father of two young children, I feel better feeding my kids food that I know has come from local Ontario farms. In fact, one of my daughter’s best friends has a farm that’s been given awards by the Premier: Nicholyn Farms. I make a point of going to Nicholyn Farms, to the little market that they have there for local food in Ontario.

By “local” we mean 60 kilometres around the area, and that’s all the beef and vegetables—you name it; they have it there, and it’s the highest-quality food you could probably buy anywhere. A little more expensive, but it’s better quality and you’re supporting local food. That’s supporting local food.

People like that. People like to buy local, they really do, if they’re given the chance and the opportunity. A good example is the Foodland Ontario symbol, a part of a government program established by our party in 1997, and it’s recognized by over 94% of grocery shoppers.

This bill does a lot less than what stakeholders need and want. It actually does very little of what it says it’ll do, that being promoting local food. I know, the rest of the PC caucus knows and stakeholders also know that to support local food, we need to support Ontario farmers. So it’s disappointing when Premier Wynne opted not to take the time to really listen to farmers and other stakeholders, as a Minister of Agriculture and Food should, and put forward a bill that actually addresses their concerns such as too much red tape, increasing energy costs and a horse racing industry that’s on the ropes.

Instead she chose to put forward a bill that amounts to not much more than good intentions, and I’ll give it that. This bill may be a good starting point. It aims to bring more to local food and encourages public sector institutions to buy local, and allows the Minister of Agriculture and Food to set goals or targets in respect to local food, even though there is no mention of what these goals and targets should be or aim at. We all know that if you want to have goals and targets, you’d better have them in mind. You’d better do better than just talking about them; you’d better actually have them so you can achieve them.

Furthermore, even though the bill states that the minister could consult with stakeholder organizations before setting these goals and targets, whatever they may be, we worry that the minister, with so little experience in this industry, gets the final say in what these targets are and that the bill does not even define who the relevant organizations would be.

The bill also provides that the minister may direct a public sector organization to provide information regarding local food targets and steps that have been taken to achieve that goal. But, Speaker, the bill does little else. There is too much at stake in Ontario’s agri-food industry for a Local Food Act that does almost nothing substantial to promote local food and to help the farmers who actually provide local food.

What’s at stake? Promoting local food in Ontario should be taken more seriously by the Liberal government. This unsubstantial bill demonstrates that the Liberal government either doesn’t really know or doesn’t really realize the importance of the agriculture and food industry to the social and economic well-being of all of Ontario. This is further evidenced by the political campaign move by the Premier, who can’t even get the title of the portfolio down properly.

Here are some of the facts about the industry which demonstrate why promoting local food is so important for Ontario: 25% of Canadian farms are actually located in Ontario; there are almost 52,000 farms and 75,000 farm operators in Ontario; and Ontario is renowned worldwide as a leader in safe, high-quality food and in agricultural innovations.

The potential to export and be self-sustaining. We have the potential to export and be self-sustaining, but Ontario imports exceed exports by about $424 million. That makes no sense because we’re the third-largest food producer in North America. Ontario’s blessed with the majority—over 50%—of Canada’s best agricultural land. Ontario raises the most chickens, has the most dairy cows in the country and is a major producer of corn, fruit, soybeans, nursery plants, flowers, vegetables, eggs, poultry, lamb, hogs, beef and dairy products. That’s just about everything.

Mr. Bill Walker: Bruce–Grey–Owen Sound is the capital of beef.

Mr. Rod Jackson: Bruce–Grey–Owen Sound is the capital of beef, the member from Bruce–Grey–Owen sound says. There we go; there’s some food promotion for you.

Mr. Bill Walker: There you go; there’s local food promotion at its finest.

Mr. Rod Jackson: Even in Barrie we see examples of red tape. I want to give a little example of red tape in Barrie that just happened recently. We need to make it easier for businesses to promote local food, yet there’s too much regulation leading to missed opportunities. There’s actually a local hamburger restaurant in Alliston—some of us heard about this in the newspaper; it actually made the news. It’s a town that neighbours Barrie, about a 25-minute drive from Barrie—whose owner knows the value of local Ontario food and is proud to use and advertise that it uses locally sourced products.

It was told to take down signs advertising this, because they were serving beer from a local brewery from Barrie. So in other words, they were told by this government, by this bureaucracy, that they couldn’t advertise a beer made in Barrie as local. Yet it’s only about 30 or 40 kilometres away. If that’s not local, I don’t know what is.

What is our definition of “local”? We sit in this House, representing all of Ontario. We should be sticking together and supporting each other, supporting our communities. To actually ask a restaurant to take down advertisements that they’re serving local food when it’s actually not local, it’s 30 or 40 kilometres away, is splitting hairs, folks. We need to do what we can to support local food. That’s not supporting local food.

And it’s not only that. If he doesn’t take down the sign, he can be charged up to $50,000. If you want to protect local food and you want to promote local food, let’s start there: not punishing restaurants for advertising local food. It is counterintuitive; I just don’t understand it. His other restaurant also sources food from communities in Ontario other than Alliston, and now he’s worried that he has to stop promoting local foods.

I mean, let’s start there. If you want to do a bill that actually makes sense and actually accomplishes what it says it’s going to accomplish, why don’t we start at the obvious spot and stop punishing local restaurants for advertising and selling local food? It makes sense, doesn’t it? This one restaurateur wants to support local food, and he can’t for fear of being charged a $50,000 fine.

Let’s pull our heads out of the sand here, folks. This is because of different

definitions of “local food” federally and provincially. Provincially, local is all of Ontario; federally, it must be neighbouring municipalities. We need legislation tackling this, or more coordination between governments. That’s your job, and you can’t pass that on to another bureaucracy like you do with everything else, guys. It’s nice that provincially we’ll have

an act to promote local food, if this passes, but what does that matter if businesses can’t advertise Ontario food as local? It seems like bad oversight on behalf of the minister’s office, and this is a huge loss of potential for local food here in Ontario.

We need to make it easier, not harder, for businesses to put Ontario food on the table and promote it in stores and restaurants. I know there’s one restaurant in Barrie that just opened up called the Farmhouse, which is proudly serving nothing but local food, and if they are stymied from actually serving local food because the definition is that it’s not in the city of Barrie, well, I’ll tell you what: We don’t have one farm in the city of Barrie. We have lots of them surrounding Barrie that feed us. If we can’t promote that as being local, that’s a crying shame.

Mr. Speaker, at most I can tell that this bill is a stepping stone. Again, I said I’ll give it that: good intentions. But mostly it’s just a missed opportunity. It has the potential, but there’s still so much more to be done. In our white paper, the PC Party has put forward concrete proposals to actually promote local food and agribusinesses, proposals that have taken into account the concerns and ideas of the people who understand the industry the best. It’s unfortunate that the Minister of Agriculture and Food did not implement at least one of these real-world proposals into this bill.

It’s also unfortunate that the Premier, who’s supposed to be representing Ontario farmers, has replaced Ontario Agriculture Week with Ontario Local Food Week, instead of keeping these two distinct, separate entities that properly mark their importance. Maybe it was just a careless oversight to complement a substance-lacking bill, but if oversights and pieces of unsubstantial legislation are indications of things to come from the Premier, as both the Minister of Agriculture and Food and as Premier, I think we have good reason to be more than a little concerned, Mr. Speaker.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments.

Mr. John Vanthof: Once again, it’s an honour to be able to stand in the House on behalf of the residents of Timiskaming–Cochrane and make a few remarks on the remarks of the member from Barrie on the Local Food Act. I agreed with a lot of the points he brought up—not all of them, but a lot of them.

I think one of the biggest problems he brought up and that I’d like to expand on is that this bill says it would like to set goals and objectives, but it doesn’t actually—there’s no evidence of what these goals or objectives are going to be until three years after the passage of the bill. Quite frankly, is the legislation worth the paper it’s written on, or should we expect to pass legislation that doesn’t have goals and objectives as part of what you’re striving for? This bill is very, very weak on that, and that’s why those on this side of the House keep saying it’s more promotional material—and it is.

We’re spending a lot of time talking about local food. I’m sure in the next campaign the government is going to spend a lot of time beating down the back roads talking about local food. But the problem is that the goals and objectives are somewhere way at the back. They don’t even say what they are; they’re going to talk about them.

I hear the member from Glengarry–Prescott–Russell: “We can’t do this because it might harm trade agreements,” even though there are countries to the south of us, the States, and in the European Union who do have goals and objectives, who operate under much stricter trade rules than we do. So, once again, that’s a red herring, and that one really, for those of us on this side of the House, is a big problem.

If it’s worth having a goal, it’s worth setting out what the goals and objectives are, and it’s definitely worth actually who you’re going to consult with and at what time. Unless those things are in the amendments to this bill, it’s going to be very hard to pass this one into law.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Hon. James J. Bradley: I was delighted that this bill was put forward for consideration by the House because I think all of us in this Legislature recognize that the people of Ontario have an opportunity to have access to safe, fresh, tasty and healthy food, which is grown right here in our own province, in various parts of that province.

I don’t think most people recognize the economic importance of agriculture as well. When we talk to people, particularly in the cities or in districts of the province, and you ask them what has the greatest impact economically, they’ll mention various industries—often manufacturing—which are very important, but they will underestimate the impact economically that agriculture has in our province. It has a massive impact, but it’s spread across the province. So that is why, in some cases, it’s not recognized for its true importance.

It’s important, as well, to preserve the land that we have there. There are many people who can’t wait to pave every last square centimetre of the province, to develop everything that they see in sight. We have a limited amount of agricultural land available right across Canada—right across Canada—and we should be preserving that.

It’s important, as well, to label things absolutely correctly and accurately so that people, when they’re going to get local food, know that it’s genuinely local food: Ontario-grown and Canadian-grown. I know there’s a gentleman by the name of Doug Whitty. He and his wife and family operate a farm in the St. Catharines area where you can actually go to the roadside and make your purchases which you know are going to be local and you know are going to be of the highest quality.

I think it’s important that we support the bill. It has a major impact for this province.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. John O’Toole: I do want to recognize and respect the member from Barrie—that he was quite passionate about it, in terms of the inability to classify local brewers as local food. I would tend to agree with him on that.

But I think the substance of the bill was summed up very well by the member from Timmins–Cochrane, where he said there’s actually nothing in the bill—basically is what he said. I tend to agree with him. It’s more to do about nothing in terms of, if you look at agriculture today and what they’ve done; it’s quite tragic, really.

They said that the greenbelt was to protect agricultural land. What it’s done is create more red tape. They want to build a farm implement building, for instance, to continue their business or change their business. The greenbelt legislation is very rigorous in terms of the prohibitions that it affects.

But I always like to think of local food by looking at my riding of Durham and not just to the damage that it’s done to the quarter horse industry, which I talked to Dean Link and Bob Broadstock about this morning. They are two farm families where quarter horses are an important part of their business who are now being threatened out of business and their agriculture. What they do is they use hay and oats and wheat and buy tractors and use veterinarians and keep rural Ontario alive and vibrant, and provide entertainment for the province of Ontario.

I also look at others in my riding, and I can’t help but think of a couple of Deputy Ministers of Agriculture who live just up the road from where I do. I think of Knox farm. Ken Knox, great guy—his family is still continuing the farm traditions, and just up the road from where I live.

I have a couple of others: The Archibald family is very well respected in agriculture. Bruce Archibald, I think, is a deputy federally. The Archibald fruit wine orchard in my riding is a destination on farm tours as well as tourism in Ontario generally. So there’s a lot to be proud of.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. Michael Mantha: Again, it’s with pleasure that I rise to talk about the food act, because, essentially, as the Minister of the Environment indicated earlier, it’s a good thing. It actually starts a discussion that we should have been having for a very, very long time.

To the member from Barrie, I really appreciate hearing about what’s going on in your area. It gives me a better appreciation of the farming community and the agricultural sector in your area. It’s really nice to see that you’re as passionate as I feel about what’s going on in Algoma–Manitoulin. However, this bill essentially does not do anything for them other than identify a week. But it does start a discussion, and that’s really important.

The member from Durham actually made a very interesting point. He was highlighting a point that my colleague from Timiskaming–Cochrane actually raised: that there’s really nothing in this bill. We agree that there’s nothing in this bill. It’s something that really starts a discussion; we’re hoping we’re going to see something once it gets into committee. However, in the same sentence, he indicated that this adds red tape. If it adds red tape, then you’re saying there’s something in this bill.

I would expect him to maybe change that in further comments that he’s going to have because, really, there is nothing in this bill, so I can’t see the red tape—unless you’re cutting the cord in order to introduce this bill somewhere.

The concern I have, and my colleague from Timiskaming–Cochrane actually said it, is that it will be three years before we get goals and objectives that are going to come out of this. That’s one of the points. A bigger concern I have is: Who is going to be providing those goals and objectives? Who’s going to be questioned? How are they going to reach out to those communities? Because if you’re reaching out to friends, how are you going to be challenged to really put meat into this bill? Where is it going to be coming from?

I know in Algoma–Manitoulin we haven’t been reached yet, so I’m looking forward to hearing these discussions for the farmers in the agricultural sector that I have in Algoma–Manitoulin.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The member for Barrie, you have two minutes.

Mr. Rod Jackson: I think the member from Algoma–Manitoulin had it right. The time for conversation is really over. We hear a lot from this other side about conversation and discussion. Although that’s important, we’ve had 10 years to have discussion and conversation. Now is the time for action. We need to actually take action, do more than just put nice window dressing up for these bills. We need to actually get some action to get Ontario back on its feet and going again, and that starts in our agricultural industry in Ontario. That’s where it all begins. That’s where it all began in the history of Ontario.

We need to do everything we can to make sure that this industry survives and thrives so the rest of us can survive and thrive.

I think my colleague from Oxford put it best when he said that while it’s important to celebrate local food, the government seems to have forgotten where all that food comes from. We need to keep Local Food Week and Agriculture Week separate in order to fully recognize and celebrate the contributions of all our farmers.

Our caucus has listened to farmers and stakeholders and come up with bold, practical ideas to promote Ontario food through connecting Ontario farmers and food manufacturers and producers with Ontario businesses and addressing the concerns that farmers have on a daily basis. We realize the importance of this industry and see its potential, and we know that all of Ontario will benefit when we buy local food. It contributes to our economy. It’s fresher, healthier food for our families. Food is produced to our standards; we know it’s produced to our standards. We have more control over it.

There are shorter distances to travel, making a smaller carbon footprint, and that’s good for the environment. We know how important the environment is to you guys and how much attention you want to pay to that. Our children can understand where food comes from; it will increase food literacy. It will help combat child obesity.

All around, it’s a good thing to promote local food. This bill doesn’t do enough to do it, but it does start the conversation. That’s probably the best thing it does.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Further debate? The member for Haldimand–Norfolk.

Mr. Toby Barrett: Thank you, Speaker, for the opportunity to speak to this legislation. As an MPP for the rich rural riding of Haldimand–Norfolk, and with a bit of a background in agriculture, I would say that this legislation is a bit of a start. It could do a lot more to support farming and local food.

Now, when I describe my riding as rich, I’m referring to the diversity of farm commodities and natural resources down our way. I’m blessed to hail from an area that’s known as Ontario’s garden. It has always been known as Ontario’s golden garden, one of the most—actually, it is Canada’s most diverse agricultural area. We’re about 100 miles from Toronto. Anybody here that’s on a 100-mile diet: Keep that in mind.

We’re more than willing to ship the food into the city. In fact, during the season, the trucks roll in at 2, 3, 4 o’clock in the morning to the Ontario Food Terminal. I commend our member from Oxford. We are going forward with a proposal for at least one other regional food terminal.

Down in Norfolk—and again, don’t wait for us to truck it to Toronto; come on down. Why buy retail? Come on down at the wholesale level at farmers’ markets. You can go right to the farm gate, the roadside stands, and we also had some excellent homegrown restaurants.

Why are we Canada’s most diverse agricultural area? It’s partly due to the soil types, our microclimate; we’re down on Lake Erie; longer growing seasons. As well, we have that knowledge base going back many, many years: the mechanical skills, the business skills in agriculture. We know how to manage farm labour, for example.

We know how to manage sand in Norfolk and we know how to manage clay. My grandfather would always say, “Down our way,” on the Barrett side, “our family is blessed with sandy Norfolk county farms but we’re blessed with Haldimand clay.” It can be a challenge to deal with that particular soil type. My mum’s farm is on Norfolk sand. The family had been farming there since 1796. It’s still in the family; it’s now in the hands of my cousin. There’s just one example of one family, on my mother’s side, that has been farming for something like 217 years now. Our riding has been producing food for well over 200 years. It is part of our culture, and we know how to do it.

Our area is known for some extraordinary foods. Some products here I know very little about, actually. Edamame: Anybody here know what edamame is? Goji berries: health food. Horse radish—of course, you’ll see Norfolk horse radish all over North America at the retail level. Lake Erie yellow perch; pickerel. Norfolk county alone is Ontario’s leading grower of apples, asparagus and cabbage. We’re also number one in growing cucumbers, green onions, shallots, peanuts and pumpkin. I have some pickled pumpkin in my refrigerator. Strawberries, of course, and sweet corn.

Again, we cover the northeastern United States with sweet corn. Sweet potatoes and zucchini: I used to grow zucchini. My grandmother and I would market zucchini through the local IGA.

Haldimand, of course, is famous for beef. Dairy: the famous Hewitt’s Dairy bars. They’ve been in business for over 150 years now. Broilers. The flower trade; the greenhouse trade. I think of Rosa Flora. They’re North America’s largest producer of the gerbera daisy. Snyder’s sweet corn is grown on Grand River silt.

Speaker, down in Haldimand–Norfolk, we can grow just about anything. The problem is selling it, and that’s why I’m disappointed in this legislation. Some other commodities down our way: Belgian endive. Currants: My cousin grows currants. Maple syrup, and a new trade—the member from Oxford was down recently: We’re developing a number of very successful wineries. Burning Kiln wine last year won the Legislative Assembly award for red wine.

I’ll use another example down our way: VG Meats are the winners of Ontario Finest Meat Competition. VG is an abattoir and a retail operation operated by the Van Groningen family, initially to sell beef raised on their farm. In fact, their herd of cattle shares the line fence with my farm. Every morning, I get to take a look at what I’m going to be eating a few months down the road. That’s local, Speaker. They produce beef on a vegetable-based diet with no steroids. They have a retail operation down outside of Simcoe. They also have one up in Elfrida, a new retail operation up there.

As part of their advertising, they say that if you were closer to the farm, as far as their product, you’d have to wear rubber boots.

So every aspect of the meat, from farm to store, is locally controlled. They join a number of very successful families with abattoirs down our way: the Dekonings, the Miedemas. Townsend Butchers just put $1.4 million into their facility. I mentioned the restaurants. I think of the church basements. The quality of the food that you can get in rural Ontario—it’s something that we could do well to better export to cities like not only Toronto but Hamilton, London, Windsor.

There’s good hunting and fishing down our way. I figure if you’re going to catch it or shoot it, you should eat it. I mentioned earlier that I do have some squirrel in my freezer if anyone is interested. My mom has an excellent recipe; it’s called Bridge Street stew. You can put in beef; you can put in squirrel. I see a big smile on the face of the member from Oshawa over there. Lots of squirrel outside this building, Jerry. I don’t know—.22 or 20-gauge; what do you figure? One or the other. We could do some harvesting.

You know, with respect to our area, our involvement in growing food, there’s a very interesting project with respect to, in part, promoting food but promoting health care food with our area health care facilities. It’s called Norfolk County’s Local Foods to Health Care Facilities initiative. These are the kinds of products that should be encouraged within all government entities, really. Again, we’ve got to ensure that everybody is eating the best they can locally, locally available to them, and make sure they know what to do with it as well.

Randy Pettapiece, my colleague here: In his riding in Stratford, they have a local community food centre that’s teaching people how to grow food, harvest, cook and preserve local foods. It’s called a community food centre. They describe it as a welcoming space where people come together to grow, to cook. It provides emergency access to high-quality food in a dignified setting and doesn’t compromise people’s self-worth. This is something I think we have to think about in any of our deliberations, with respect to social assistance in this province; so go beyond the traditional food bank or charitable giving approaches. Again, it benefits everyone and benefits local food.

I’m very disappointed that this legislation does not talk about agricultural education. I used to teach agriculture at the high school level. Once upon a time, our high schools taught kids how to cook, the home ec classes; now I understand there’s a Cosmo program that teaches young people how to apply makeup and things like that. That may well be important, I don’t know, but I think we could be educating young people a bit more about farming and a bit more about food.

There’s no question agriculture is a major driver in our economy. We know the comparisons with the auto industry, and I also suggest we think beyond food. Ginseng is a very important crop down our way—locally grown; probably the best you’ll find anywhere in the world—and, of course, our area remains famous for locally grown tobacco.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong: I’m pleased to rise and contribute my comments to the Local Food Act that we’re discussing today. You know, one of the things that we’ve talked about is how farmers help the economy. For every job in the agricultural sector, that supports four other additional jobs in our economy, so that’s one really great reason to support local food.

Also, local food is fresher. When you purchase food that’s grown here in Ontario or within your city or around the outskirts, you know it’s going to have a different taste. It’s going to taste crisper; it’s going to be fresher.

The other reason is because it’s good for the environment. If we’re growing local food, it cuts down on pollution. So that’s another reason we want to do that.

In London, there’s a very interesting initiative being taken. It’s a business called Eat Green Organics. What they do is they provide organic food weekly, and they deliver it to people’s homes. People can order a box of food and mix up the variety, and they’ll deliver it to you. It’s grown locally, and then they’re even going to take it to your home. So there’s really no reason why you wouldn’t want to support local food when they’re going to bring it right to your door.

Another business that has been operating in London is called On The Move Organics. They do the same thing, but they also go a step further and try to help the environment. In that concept of how local food does help the environment, they’ll deliver it on a bicycle if you’re within 18 square kilometres of their delivery area. So that is an awesome initiative. You’re growing locally, so you’re helping the economy. You’re also supporting your local businesses—so you’re supporting your farmers; you’re supporting your local businesses that are selling that—and you’re also supporting the environment. I’m very proud of those two initiatives in London that help local food and our farmers.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments.

Mr. Grant Crack: I’d like to thank the member from Haldimand–Norfolk for his comments. I can tell you that I’m not really that interested in eating squirrel, but if that tickles their fancy, that’s completely fine.

I’d like to talk positively, Mr. Speaker, about some of the great things that are happening in my riding. We’ve heard a lot of negativity concerning the Local Food Act which contradicts what the good people that are producing local food and marketing their local food are doing in many communities right across the province.

Particularly in my riding of Glengarry–Prescott–Russell we have something that’s called the Foire Gourmande. Foire Gourmande is an initiative in Lefaivre, Ontario. It’s where local exhibitors get together and exhibit the great foods that they make—not only foods but wines and beers. We partner up with the Quebec side as well: Montebello. From the Montebello marina to Lefaivre, there’s a ferry that goes back and forth and brings residents of Quebec over into my riding. In return, the residents go over to see the good things that are happening in local food on the Quebec side.

It’s a great event. I attended for the last year or two. We showcase Ontario wines like Domaine Perrault. We have Beau’s Brewery there, and Cassel Brewery. These are part of the local food, where we support our local businesses. Bearbrook Farm is there; Fromagerie St-Albert—I know everybody here loves St-Albert cheese. Those are just to name a couple that are actually there.

We also have every fall, Mr. Speaker, the Vankleek Hill Festival of Flavours. There’s a gentleman there, Phil Arber, who organizes this great event, right down the main street of Vankleek Hill. It’s a wonderful event, and I’d encourage everybody to come to Glengarry–Prescott–Russell to enjoy great Ontario food.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. Jerry J. Ouellette: I very much appreciate the opportunity to speak. I did have the opportunity in the past to speak on this legislation. I tried, as did the member from Haldimand–Norfolk, to bring forward some of the discussion as pertains to other than the standard food sources—when he spoke about the squirrel. It has been mentioned a couple of times now. It’s kind of like something from Duck Dynasty, which is fine and is just normal course. I think the member tried to emphasize the fact that there are other opportunities out there anyway. I think it was pickled pumpkin, or pickled—

Interjection: Pickled pumpkin.

Mr. Jerry J. Ouellette: —pickled pumpkin that he had as well. These are the sorts of things that are going to set Ontario front and centre in a lot of other jurisdictions. I know, quite frankly, right now it’s about time to start picking wild leeks. I’ll be looking—as I have one son who’s very active in picking that—for markets to put those up for sale, whether it’s through the Mennonites up on Glenarm Road, or it could be Algoma Orchards, which has a tendency to retail some of those local products.

I think the emphasis by the member was to try and focus on the fact that there are other things that are out there. He mentioned the perch and other things that come from his community. It’s great to hear. Those are the sorts of things that Ontario needs to be able to stand up and say, “We’re proud that we have these opportunities to promote these different aspects.” He also mentioned maple syrup. In my debate in the past, I talked extensively about the maple syrup market. Now two thirds of all maple syrup consumed in Ontario actually comes from Quebec. It’s a huge market, and there’s potential all around the world to look at these sorts of things.

I’m proud to stand up and support the member on all the various aspects that he has mentioned that we need to look at. We need to promote locally and do more to set Ontario front and centre throughout the rest of the world on these small niches, whether it’s pickled pumpkins or, as mentioned, some of the squirrels and other things that he spoke about.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. Jonah Schein: As I’ve said numerous times now about this bill, I think it’s important that we talk about food. I think that the scope should be expanded.

It’s clear to me this morning listening to the government side that sometimes maybe we’re living in two different realities of Ontario. The member from the government side was talking about the importance of local wines and local beers, which is all very nice and fine, but if you come down to Davenport, where I live, members of my community last night were talking about bedbugs. They’re talking about the infestations that are in our community and the fact that there’s no money to get rid of these bedbugs, and if they use that money, they’ve got no money for food. Speaker, that’s not just happening in Davenport; that’s happening across this city.

They’re talking about the real cuts that this government has made to community start-up benefits that would help people actually get rid of bugs and have money for food. They’re talking about cuts to special diet. That’s what I’m hearing in Davenport, and that’s what people are hearing across the city, Speaker. It’s not just in Davenport, but in Lawrence Heights and in Don Valley North.

There are people here lining up for food banks. People do not get their cheques until tomorrow, the 26th of the month, and they made a cheque last for 26 days—a $600 cheque, Speaker. This government is putting this bill at the top of the heap, even though there’s no substance to this bill, very little substance to this bill. Meanwhile, 10 years later, people are getting poorer in this province and don’t have access to any food.

Speaker, if you go to a food bank—and I would ask the government members to go to a food bank—there are literally problems. People are stampeding to get food for their families. These are the stories that I’m hearing from my friends who work at food banks, who volunteer at food banks. They are worried for their own safety because people are so desperate for any kind of food in this city.

So we hear the government talking about the joys of local wine. People just want something to eat for their families.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Interjection.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Sorry; I’m being corrected by the centre desk here. The member for Haldimand–Norfolk, you have two minutes for a response.

Mr. Toby Barrett: I thank the members for their comments, and they’ll have been duly noted in Hansard.

I know the issue of squirrel was raised again. Depending on what you’re eating, it is important to consider the source, consider what nutrients that particular product received or what that particular animal was eating before you eat it. I know the squirrel that I have in my freezer—they dine on hickory nut, sometimes walnut. We have an awful lot of walnut on our farm, the highest-quality protein.

I mentioned that I used to teach agriculture. I also studied agriculture. One of our teachers explained to us that groundhog is one of the best, highest-quality protein you could eat. A groundhog is very selective in their diet. They eat nothing but the finest clover when they’re out in a farm.

The member for Oshawa talked about how it’s time to harvest wild leeks. My aunt has a cookbook with a number of recipes on how to cook wild leek. I recall one recipe; the first sentence in the recipe was, “First, you take a leek.” Then it described what else you do to cook leeks.

I did make mention of tobacco in my presentation, something we grow not only in Norfolk but in Elgin, Oxford, Brant, Middlesex and beyond. Decreasing crop sizes have hit the industry very hard. The present government did nothing to help out. That’s why I find it very hard to support this bill.

Challenges remain for farmers: red tape, regulation, electricity costs, the closure of abattoirs, the destruction of Ontario’s horse racing industry, the demise of our cattle industry and, again, lack of suitable government programs.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Further debate?

Mr. Bill Walker: It’s my pleasure to also rise and speak to this bill. I’ve offered some hits in the House and, similar to this morning, I think what I want to start off with saying is that I’m just really concerned that this bill is a lot of nothing. It says we “may” arrive at some goals and targets and we “may” establish goals and targets to “aspire” to in respect of local food.

They’ve had 10 years to get this done. What we need is action, and we need to have concrete goals. We need to be doing things that actually help the economy, help the agricultural sector and put people back to work.

The Minister of the Environment rose earlier this morning and was talking about the economic impact. I just find this a little bit interesting, the fact that under his leadership the OTS increased fees, just recently, that most significantly impact the farming community. Tire fees are going from $100 to $385 and, for the larger tractor tires, up to $1,600 per tire. How is that helping farmers? How is that helping the agricultural community?

Again, in this particular case, the environment and the energy ministers have presided over a government that enacted the Green Energy Act, which is allowing great farmland to be taken out of production for wind turbines and solar panels. How is that helping our agricultural sector and our most important commodity, our safe and healthy food?

Within that green energy, they’ve allowed the energy prices in North America—we are going to have the highest rates of energy in North America here very shortly. How is that helping our economy? How is that helping those 500,000 people who woke up this morning without a job? What we were hoping with a Local Food Act is that they would actually have had some action in that act, not “we want to, we may, we might.” We need some “we will.”

The other thing I would be remiss not to mention—there has been a lot of talk in this House in the last week for certain, and probably the last couple of months, on this gas plant scandal and the billion dollars that will be wasted in that that could have gone to the agricultural sector.

I want to be very specific to my riding. We had a devastating event last year with the frost that impacted the apple harvest and the apple industry across the board. I’m being told by the apple growers’ association that a $25-million investment over seven years would virtually rejuvenate that whole industry and that we would be able to supply every single apple to the Ontario market that’s needed.

I find it very interesting that we can spend $85 million or $275 million on something like the gas plant in the blink of an eye with no thought process, but we can’t actually extend it to this very vital industry, which then has a ripple effect to the economy in all of our local areas—$25 million to do that.

It would make our growers more productive. It would supply the entire market in the province. It would sustain the direct and the many indirect jobs, and it’s appalling to me that they can stand in this House and defend a $275-million overture on one gas plant. We don’t even know how big the next one will be and yet they can’t do that. But then they bring a bill like this that says we “may” establish goals and targets, and in three years we’ll review it. The time for conversations and reviewing and paying consultants on their tab is over. We need to be doing more things to get this back.

My colleague from Haldimand–Norfolk talked a lot about the great things in his riding. I just want to offer a friendly challenge. I think somewhere in there he mentioned that he might have had the best apples in Ontario. I just want to make sure that Meaford, in my great riding of Bruce–Grey–Owen Sound, is the centre of the universe when it comes to apples. We are the apple of Ontario, similar to how New York is of the States.

Interjection.

Mr. Bill Walker: It’s Algoma? Well, I’m not certain I’m going to cede to Algoma here. I think I’m going to stand up for my folks in Meaford, who do a wonderful job.

We have the Keady market, which, again, attracts people from all over. A lot of people come to our beautiful part of the world, to Sauble Beach, to the Bruce Peninsula, to Meaford to enjoy their holidays, and they travel on Tuesday mornings to the market. I definitely think there’s that, and there’s the Owen Sound Farmers’ Market. There are places like Flesherton and Markdale that have farmers’ markets.

In my little village that I grew up in, the great village of Hepworth, Ontario, Canada, there’s Sinclair’s Market Garden that’s now, I believe, third generation, and again, the best produce that you can find locally. They do everything on their farm with their own hands, and when you walk in there you can just see the pride in their eyes of producing that for you. Yes, sometimes the odd produce is a little bit more expensive than those grocery market shelves, but you know what? I’m proud to pay that, because that, I know, is supporting a family in my backyard and their children and their grandchildren.

I think we need to do all we can to support our local markets. I’m not certain that this bill—like many of the bills, unfortunately, that I’ve had to speak to that have been introduced by the Liberals, it’s a lot of smoke and mirrors. There’s a lot of vapour in a lot of the things that they do. There’s not a great deal of substance.

Interjection.

Mr. Bill Walker: The gas plant; yes, a lot of vapour there—probably about a billion dollars’ worth of vapour that will produce no energy for our province. I don’t want to get off topic with those boondoggles that they have, because I could be here all day and I wouldn’t really be addressing this Local Food Act. We have the eHealth boondoggle, we have the gas plant boondoggle, we have the Ornge boondoggle, and all of this amounts to 600,000 people—or 500,000 people, whichever number; both are horrifying numbers of people—out of work today.

They doubled the debt in the 10 years of their reign of horror—reign of terror—and this bill here is not doing a thing to address that. It’s not helping those local people produce more food. It’s not allowing them to be more competitive with their local food. All it’s doing is a bunch of paper, red tape, and adding to the burden of these poor farmers who need to get out about it.

I want to reflect back—and my staff have done a great job of putting some information together. Back in about 2004, there was a report tabled by the McGuinty government entitled Small, Rural, and Remote Communities: The Anatomy of Risk. This report basically says that everything should be moved into the cities; it should be into those urban spots.

They’re Liberal anti-farmer policies, such as the hiked tire recycling fees that I’ve spoken about earlier, the gas tax inequality that’s been there for many years—well, who spends more money on gas than rural people, and particularly farmers, who are always on a vehicle of some sort trying to create their crops?—the industrialization of rural land with wind turbines, the decimation of the horse racing industry, the recouping of the BSE payments, skyrocketing hydro and, again, these gas plant scandals.

There’s a lack of conviction in this bill. There are no real targets. I’ve talked, again, about these tire fees. I just can’t get past this one, because people in my riding continue to call me. The pending 1,000% hike to these recycling fees on used tires—that’s going to hurt farmers, contracting and small business industries all across our great areas.

The inequality with the gas tax: My colleague Mr. Yakabuski from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke has brought this to the House seven times; fortunately, the last one, I think we finally won the vote, but will the Liberals ever bring it and truly create equality, which will help those farmers that they so glowingly say they’re trying to represent despite having a part-time minister at the helm of that very, very, very important ministry?

I’ve talked about the hydro hike. We went from a leader, and now we’re going to be a leader again. Unfortunately, we’re going to be a leader in rates for energy across North America. How is that helping local farmers stay in business or expand their business?

They decimated the small abattoirs. In my riding of Bruce–Grey–Owen Sound, we are the beef capital of the province, probably across Canada. We have Big Bruce in Chesley, Ontario, but you know what? They’ve decimated the small, little abattoirs, so that has had a huge ramification on our local beef producers to be able to get their animals to market, and to get that to the great market that’s out there. We know people want it, because it is the best beef in the world, really. We need to be doing things that are going to actually entitle—one of the members over there continues to say about the positive.

You know what? The positive would be if they’d bring legislation that we could support and get behind, so we’re actually doing that thing to move our economy forward and helping people get back to work and employment.

I just spoke yesterday with the manager of the Hanover Raceway and was talking again about the mess they’ve made of the whole horse racing industry. They are going to decimate 60,000 jobs. They’ve created a situation where that industry is leaving Ontario at a rapid pace, and we may never get it back, despite them trying to put a Band-Aid on it. They have a half-built hall, the Carriage Hall. They put out $5 million, and it sits there idle because the funding source that they thought they had in good faith was taken away without any consultation.

I just want to summarize by saying that this was a “maybe” bill: “We may set targets. We may set goals. We’ll review it in three years.” Well, that’s not helping the farmers of today. This isn’t ensuring that that next generation wants to step up, buy the farm and continue that proud tradition of so many farming families out there. What we need are concrete targets. We need them to actually step forward. I want to just again put a plug in and challenge the minister in this new budget coming forward that they’ll put that $25 million in to revitalize the apple industry so that that farming community has a future.

Second reading debate deemed adjourned.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Seeing the time on the clock, this House stands recessed until 10:30.

The House recessed from 1015 to 1030.

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

Mr. Norm Miller: I’m very pleased to have Dawn and Ed Novak here in the Speaker’s gallery. They have just received an Attorney General’s Victim Services Award of Distinction. They’re here at Queen’s Park for the day. Welcome.

Hon. John Gerretsen: As has already been noted, I had the honour of presenting the 2013 Attorney General Victim Services Awards of Distinction. I was joined by the member from Parry Sound–Muskoka, the Minister of Research and Innovation and the Minister of Rural Affairs. The Premier dropped in as well, which was quite a surprise for everyone.

In the Speaker’s gallery today, we have the awards recipients, and I would like to introduce them at this point in time and thank them for all the hard work that they do on a day-to-day basis for us.

We have Barbara Bird and Kaye Torrie from Peterborough, Elizabeth Anne Danowski from Lindsay, Geraldine and Edmund Healey and their daughters Teresa Healey and Sue Massey from Newmarket, Annie Merrell from Kawartha-Haliburton, Nadia Pasquini and Margaret Dovigo from Chaminade College School and students James Mangaliman and Daniel Masangkay of Toronto, as well as Lorris Herenda from Richmond Hill, Nancy Chamberlain from Thunder Bay, Monika Huminuk from Kenora, Peggy Loyie from Fort Frances, Dawn and Ed Novak from Muskoka, as has already been noted, Emilie Crakondji from London, Janice Campbell also from London, Michelle Schryer from Chatham-Kent, Christine Peringer from Perth, and finally Lisa Fox from my home riding of Kingston and the Islands.

Congratulations to all of them for their achievements.

Mr. Frank Klees: Speaker, I want to take this opportunity as well to extend a special welcome to the Remember Me Homicide Support Group from Newmarket. This was an organization created in recognition and honour of Brenda Healey. A special welcome to her family here today.

Ms. Cindy Forster: I’d like to introduce Dan Wickson. He’s the president of CEP Local 425G from Stevensville, and he’s here today to talk about severance issues.

Mr. Steven Del Duca: It’s my pleasure to recognize a former member of this Legislature, the former member from Brant, Ron Johnson, current chair of the College of Trades.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stealing a little of my thunder, but I’ll still recognize him.

Further introductions?

Mr. Kim Craitor: I too want to recognize some of my brothers and sisters who have come up from Stevensville because of a terrible plant closure by an American company. They’re up here to share their story with us and to ask for our support. So I want to recognize them, and I want to recognize Dan, who’s the president of the union, as well. Thanks for coming up.

Hon. Madeleine Meilleur: It’s my pleasure to introduce today Diana Carney, who is the mother of Sophia Carney, who is a page here. Sophia is the daughter of Diana and Mark Carney.

Hon. Mario Sergio: I have the pleasure today to welcome to Queen’s Park teachers and two classes from a wonderful school in York West, Cardinal McGuigan. They are slow coming in, but they are sitting on the west side there. I’d like to welcome them to Queen’s Park, and I hope they will enjoy their day here.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: Speaker, on a point of order.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): A point of order from the Minister of Labour.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: Speaker, I believe we have unanimous consent that all members be permitted to wear pins in remembrance of the National Day of Mourning.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The Minister of Labour has asked for unanimous consent to wear the pin for the recognition of the National Day of Mourning. Do we agree? Agreed. Thank you.

Further introductions?

Even though my introduction was stepped on, I will still introduce the member from Brantford for the 36th Parliament: Mr. Ron Johnson, former MPP. Welcome, Ron.

ORAL QUESTIONS

POWER PLANTS

Mrs. Christine Elliott: My question is to the Premier. Premier, next week we will be tabling a motion to test whether your government has the confidence of this Legislature. Premier, do you believe, after your decision to spend 275 million tax dollars to save a few Liberal seats, and after the Auditor General has informed Ontarians of the blatant abuse of those tax dollars, that your government deserves the confidence of Ontarians?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I believe that our government deserves the confidence of the province if we can demonstrate, Mr. Speaker, that we are on a track that is fiscally responsible, that is going to lead to a fairer Ontario. I think that the budget that is being developed right now, in consultation with people from around the province—the Minister of Finance has talked to people all over Ontario about their concerns. I have spoken with both leaders of the opposition parties. I believe that the budget that we will bring forward will be even-handed and will be a testament to our aspirations for the people of Ontario. That, I believe, is what the people of Ontario can have confidence in.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mrs. Christine Elliott: I’d say a confident government would be happy to have a confidence vote if that were the case. But the Auditor General’s report on the cancellation of the Mississauga power plant has made a few facts abundantly clear. Not only do you and your Liberal government use tax dollars for purely partisan purposes, but you spend those tax dollars without any regard for the hard-working people of Ontario who actually earned them. The Auditor General has pointed out countless examples: $4.2 million spent for land and a warehouse that Ontarians never got back; $41 million spent for undocumented labour costs. The list goes on and on.

Premier, do you think it’s fair to Ontarians who work hard to keep food on the table and keep the lights on to blatantly waste over $275 million, with absolutely no remorse?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I have said repeatedly, Mr. Speaker, that I regret that we are in this situation vis-à-vis the relocation of the gas plants. I regret that we didn’t have a better process up front so that a different decision could have been made earlier on, so that there could have been a different community process and so that we wouldn’t have been in this situation, which by the way all parties agreed needed to happen, that we would relocate—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I’m going to get started right off the bat. The member from Bruce–Grey–Owen Sound, come to order, and if the Minister of the Environment could save his comments while his Premier is answering, it would be very helpful.

Carry on.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Mr. Speaker, I’ve been very clear that I regret that we didn’t have a different process and that we have had to take on this situation. Had we had a better process up front, we wouldn’t be here.

But the reality is that I’ve done exactly what I said I was going to do. I said I was committed to being open and transparent, that we would make sure all the documentation—all the questions that were asked were going to be answered. That’s what’s happening now, Mr. Speaker. That’s what the people of Ontario can have confidence in.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Mrs. Christine Elliott: Mr. Speaker, with all due respect, an expression of regret doesn’t even begin to answer the concerns of the people of the province of Ontario. Premier, you’re at the heart of this scandal. You co-chaired the campaign that decided to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to save a few Liberal seats. You’re now the Premier of a government that defends this decision and doesn’t really see anything wrong with it.

After the Auditor General’s report has made this reckless spending apparent, don’t you think it’s time that the people of Ontario should actually have a chance to tell you what they think about this?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Well, two points on that: The people of Ontario and the members in this House will be confronting a budget in the next very short period of time, and they will have an opportunity to express confidence or not in the government. That is the confidence motion that I think we need to focus on.

In terms of the decision to relocate the gas plants, it is very important that the people of Ontario understand that the member who just stood in her place and asked that question was part of a party that campaigned on doing exactly the same thing. She needs to be very clear with the people of Ontario that had they followed through on their campaign promise, they would have had to take the same action—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: They would have had to reverse the decision, and it was exactly—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. New question.

GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY

Mr. Frank Klees: My question is to the Premier. Yesterday, we heard in the public accounts committee from four former directors of the former Ornge board. They swore in their testimony a particular theme, and it was a theme that has run throughout the committee hearings into the Ornge scandal. It’s a theme that was confirmed by the Auditor General, and that theme is that the Ministry of Health failed in its oversight of Ornge.

My question to the Premier is this: Given the testimony consistently that the ministry failed in its oversight, I’d like to know from this Premier what the consequences are in her new Ontario government for ministers and deputies and bureaucrats who don’t do their job, and how many more Ornges are there throughout this government?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I know the Minister of Health will want to comment on the specifics, but I just want to say this: We have said that there needed to be better oversight at Ornge. We have said that there needed to be a better regime of oversight, which is why we introduced legislation to tighten up that oversight, to make sure that the monitoring was in place and to make sure that the rules were much more explicit. That’s what the legislation is about. My expectation—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): There are a couple of members who are maybe playing hide-and-seek with their seating arrangements, but I will still ask them to go sit in their seats so I can tell them to stop heckling. Thank you.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Leeds–Grenville has a comment for me to make?

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I’m glad that the member will not stop.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I’m going to try to deal with this in a calm way. I don’t need his comments after I finish admonishing him.

Premier.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. My hope is that the member opposite and his party will support the legislation that would actually put that increased regime of oversight in place, because I’m assuming that underpinning his question is a concern about the general approach to oversight that government would take. My hope is then that he will support the legislation that would change the oversight that we’ve admitted needed to be tighter.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Frank Klees: I’ve pointed out before that there’s a reason that the A was dropped from the spelling of Ornge, and that’s because it stands for accountability.

Well, here is another Ornge the Premier should know about: The Premier should know that the executive officer of the Ontario Public Drug Programs is required by law to issue an annual report detailing Ontario’s public drug program.

Well, Speaker, given the track record of her Minister of Health, does it surprise the Premier that there has been no report filed on that program for the last five years? This is a $3.5-billion program; Ornge was $150 million.

What excuse for this glaring lack of accountability will the Premier accept from her Minister of Health this time?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Health and Long-Term Care.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Our health care system is an excellent health care system. I think all members of this Legislature would agree that Ontario is a great place when it comes to our health care system. I’ve said before, it is not perfect, but it is excellent. We rely on our health care system for oversight of boards of directors in our hospitals, in various organizations. We rely on those board members to do their job.

What we heard in testimony yesterday from former board members is that they failed in their responsibility to provide appropriate oversight. That’s why it’s very important that we move ahead with Bill 11—terribly disappointed the members opposite voted against Bill 11. We need to get Bill 11 passed so we can finish the job when it comes to correcting the ship at Ornge.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Mr. Frank Klees: Speaker, my question was about the minister’s oversight. She doesn’t even know that that report has been missing for five years. That’s why our health care system is in the mess that it’s in. I’m asking the minister one more time: Where is the report? Does she even know that the report hasn’t been filed for five years?

At a time when we’re dealing with chemotherapy problems in this province, the minister stood here and said she didn’t know anything about it. She blames the federal government. She’s going to look into it.

Now she wants Bill 11. It has nothing to do with the question I asked her.

I say this to the Premier: Given the lack of confidence that the people across this province are showing toward this government, will she respect this place? Will she allow the members of this House to vote on a want-of-confidence motion that we will be tabling early next week?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

Minister of Health.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Speaker, this has been an interesting series of questions. I’m not quite sure where the member opposite is going with it. But I’ll tell you, we will be having a vote of confidence in this Legislature in coming days.

We have a budget that will be before this House. It’s a budget that, as we know, serves to continue to strengthen our health care system by investing more in the services that our seniors and our patients need, more in the community sector, more home care. Those are issues that everyday people in this province are very happy to be seeing this government moving on.

TAXATION

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is for the Premier. New Democrats have been clear since the throne speech that if we’re going to support a budget, it has to create jobs, it has to strengthen health care and it has to make life more affordable. We talked to people about how to attain these goals, and we put realistic, achievable proposals on the table that can deliver results for people who need them.

But that’s going to require the Premier to make some pretty serious choices, Speaker. For example, the government is still committed to opening a new tax loophole worth $1 billion a year—over $1 billion a year—so that corporations can write off the HST when they entertain their clients. Is the Premier ready to admit that this isn’t something that we can afford in this province right now?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I appreciate the leader of the third party. I appreciate the issues that she has put on the table. I think that the Minister of Finance has said that he is engaging with the federal government on some of the issues that she has raised.

But the overarching reality is that we have a lot of common ground in terms of the direction that we want to go. So the issues that she has put on the table in terms of home care, in terms of auto insurance, in terms of youth unemployment—those are all areas that we’re very concerned about, that we are going to move on. My hope is that we’ll be able to find common cause on those issues, because they are issues, I believe, that should be shared by all of the parties in this House.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: These are tough times for the government; there’s no doubt. But they’re also very tough times for the families of Ontario. They want to know why they’re going to be asked to pay more and expect less while their government creates $1 billion worth of new tax loopholes for some of the biggest corporations in the province. Is the Premier still going to go ahead with letting corporations write off the HST at the same time that she’ll be asking people to pay more?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: What we’re going to go ahead with, as we’ve talked about in the last few days, is 46,000 people getting more home care. We really believe that that is the kind of issue, that’s the kind of concern, that people share every single day. That’s the kind of concern that affects people’s lives every day.

I understand that there are concerns about the particular financial regime. I know that the Minister of Finance has been in touch with the federal government. There are things that we have control of, and there are others that we don’t, Mr. Speaker, but we want to have a fair tax regime, obviously. That is work that the Minister of Finance is involved in.

But at the same time, we have to continue to do what we can as a province to make people’s lives better, to make sure they get the home care that they need, to make sure that they get the physiotherapy that they need, particularly our seniors, which is why we are changing the way that physiotherapy will be delivered. Those are concerns that affect people every single day.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Speaker, people are making it pretty clear that they want to see some change. For years, they’ve heard Liberals and Conservatives promise that tax cuts for Ontario’s largest corporations were going to create jobs in this province, that six-figure pay hikes for CEOs in hospitals would make patients healthier, that bigger profits at insurance companies would trickle down to the drivers of this province. Speaker, they have not seen the results. Instead, they have been falling further and further and further behind.

They want to know why the Premier would hand Ontario’s largest corporations a tax break while asking them to pay more and to expect less. Can the Premier explain this, Speaker?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Finance.

Hon. Charles Sousa: I appreciate the question. The leader of the third party knows all too well that this is not a loophole. This isn’t new news. These are restricted input tax credits, tax credits that were part of our tax plan for jobs and growth in 2009. We’re working very closely with the federal government. We introduced this as a meaningful reform to Ontario’s tax system. These restrictions were to be phased out by 2015 and will be fully phased out by 2018—all part of our value-added tax system.

What’s important here is that we continue to find ways to make our companies more productive, ensure that they do get the value that they provide. But at the same time, we have to take precautions to ensure that everyone pays their fair share and that the people of Ontario are protected. So we will continue to move forward.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Answer.

Hon. Charles Sousa: We’ve asked the federal government to work with us to ensure that any situations that are provided—the loopholes that we’re looking at are the ones that are—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Hon. Charles Sousa: —avoiding to pay taxes, and they’re the ones that we have to go after. In this case, we will continue to collaborate with the—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Stop the clock for a minute.

Just a reminder to all members: When I stand, you sit. Your microphone gets turned off anyway, just to let you know.

New question.

ONTARIO BUDGET

Ms. Andrea Horwath: What’s not new news is that Liberals and Tories favour corporate tax cuts instead of giving families a break. That’s what’s not new news.

My next question is to the Premier. We know over here that Ontario can do better, and we’ve put forward some simple, achievable solutions that will take some small steps to get us there. But it’s going to require the Premier to make some choices. It’s time to say that we can’t afford another round of corporate tax giveaways or seven-figure salaries for CEOs in the public sector.

Will the Premier make it clear in the budget that she’s not going to ask people to pay more while those who need help the least get yet another break?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I’m going to come at this a different way. I really believe that one of the underlying assumptions of the question from the leader of the third party is that there is a clear distinction between business and ordinary people and that somehow those are opposing ideas; they’re not. Ordinary people have jobs, Mr. Speaker. The reason we have to introduce a balanced budget and that we have to put initiatives in place to make sure that business and people and the general population do better is that their fates are interconnected. People need jobs, and business needs to be supported in a way that will allow them to create jobs.

So we are going to do everything we can to deal with the loopholes that both the Minister of Finance has talked about and the leader of the third party has talked about. But we’re also going to put in place job-creating conditions and supports for people who need them.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Speaker, it has got nothing to do with underlying assumptions. We think it’s pretty simple: Ontario families shouldn’t be waiting 262 days to get a loved one the home care that they need in this province. Ontario’s drivers shouldn’t be paying the highest auto insurance rates in the entire country. Over 180,000 young people shouldn’t be stuck in their parents’ basements wondering if their career is ever going to start.

When it comes to addressing these challenges, the government has tons of excuses and all kinds of caveats, but when it comes to finding money for CEO salary hikes and new tax loopholes worth billions of dollars, it’s full steam ahead by the Liberals.

Will the Premier get her priorities straight in the upcoming budget? Simple question.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Here is the fact: What we’ve said is that the leader of the third party has asked that we put in place a home care regime that would cost $30 million. We’re putting in six times the amount. We’re providing home care for thousands more people, and on top of that, we’re doing it in a way that’s transforming the system.

We’re very clear that in order to make the health care system sustainable we need more services delivered in the community, we need more services delivered at home and we need house calls for people who need doctors. So $185 million is what we’ve said we are prepared to put into home care. They asked for $30 million; we’re saying that we’re going to put in $185 million. I think our priorities are very clear.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. Be seated, please. Thank you.

Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: It’s cold comfort for the people of Ontario who have watched the health care budget double in this province since this government came to power, and they’re still not getting the health care that they deserve.

New Democrats have been very clear: We’re going to work hard and deliver results for the people who make this province work. That means working hard for real results for them, not vague promises and future conversations. That means making people a priority, not sticking them with the same old status quo.

Can the Premier tell us whether she’ll be moving ahead with more plans for CEO salary hikes and tax breaks for Ontario’s wealthiest corporations or whether she’ll actually put people first in this budget?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Our budget is going to be about being fiscally responsible because if we are not fiscally responsible, we will not be able to invest in the services that people need. Our budget is going to be about investing in the future, making sure that people who are waiting for home care get that home care more quickly and that people who are waiting for home care get more support than they are getting right now.

Our budget is going to be about tackling the issue of youth unemployment because I know and everyone in this House knows that it’s unacceptable that there are young people who are not able to find jobs, even though they are qualified. Our budget’s going to tackle that issue.

Our budget is going to tackle the issue of the fact that auto insurance in Ontario is higher than anywhere else in the country. We’re going to tackle that, but we’re going to tackle those issues in a way that is practical. We’re going to tackle those issues in a way that’s doable and that’s going to make people’s lives better. That’s what we’ve been doing for nine years, and we’re going to continue and leap ahead on that.

POWER PLANTS

Mr. Victor Fedeli: My question this morning is for the Premier. Premier, you talk about being open and transparent in the Legislature, but that’s not what’s happening over in the justice committee. I want you to listen to this bafflegab we got from a Liberal staffer when I asked a simple question about a $712-million offer.

Here’s his answer: “What I said to you was that I didn’t recall having anything to do with it … but if your timeline shows differently, then I would have been involved with the discussions on it.” Basically what he’s saying is: “It wasn’t me, but if you have documents that show it was me, then it was me.” That’s to go along with the 65 times in one hour that that same witness said, “I don’t know” or similar words—65 times in one hour.

Premier, why should we ever believe anything from you and your staff again?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Government House leader.

Hon. John Milloy: I’m very interested in this whole concept of transparency in front of the committee because I had a chance to follow the proceedings this morning, and those that did on television or who were there will know that this morning the PCs and NDP were trying desperately to ensure that the Leader of the Opposition did not appear in front of the committee on Tuesday.

Perhaps in the supplementary the honourable member will be able to stand up and confirm whether the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Hudak, will be there because we want to ask him about this brochure that I talked about yesterday, the one that reads: “The only party that will stop the Sherway power plant is the Ontario PC Party. On October 6, vote Ontario PC.” We want to know about his analysis and costing, and hear from him, so I hope the honourable member will confirm this in the supplementary.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Victor Fedeli: I can tell you that the people of Ontario are absolutely sick and tired of the games that this party is playing. At the justice committee today, Chris Breen from TransCanada, the proponent of the relocated Oakville power plant, confirmed a number of things for us. First of all, he confirmed today that the former energy minister had absolutely no idea of the cancellation of the Oakville power plant. He told us that it was exclusively the Premier’s office that told him about the cancellation, and when he went to a meeting with the minister, the minister was shocked that it had been cancelled.

We also heard from him, for the first time in two months—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities, come to order.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): With no comment.

Carry on, please.

Mr. Victor Fedeli: We heard for the first time from a witness in two months now that the $712-million offer was made to TransCanada and they did indeed reject it.

So, Premier, I say to you, you are clinging to this $40-million story when TransCanada rejected $712 million. How can we ever believe anything you ever say again?

Hon. John Milloy: Again, I think it’s worth noting the different story of what’s happening through the honourable member’s questions and what’s happening in front of committee.

The honourable member talks about transparency, and yet when we suggested a special meeting of the committee to hear from the Ontario Power Authority, that member voted against it. When the Premier showed up for a late show, that member chose not to participate. And I couldn’t help but notice, when I asked in the supplementary if he would indicate whether the Leader of the Opposition would be there Tuesday, he ignored that request. We have some questions for the Leader of the Opposition. We have questions for an individual who made a YouTube video to talk about his opposition to the plant and the fact that if he had become Premier, he would have done the exact same thing.

We’re looking forward to those discussions on Tuesday, and I hope the honourable member will persuade the Leader of the Opposition to be there to answer all those questions.

POWER PLANTS

Mr. Taras Natyshak: My question is to the Premier. It’s clearer than ever that the government is more interested in protecting Liberal seats than in serious energy planning. In fact, the Liberals ensured that a power plant would go ahead in York region at the same time as they cancelled plants in Oakville and Mississauga. Why did the government cancel power plants where Liberal seats were at risk but pass regulations to ensure that similar projects with similar opposition went ahead in opposition-held ridings?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: You know, we have made the point many times in this House that there have been many gas plants sited in Ontario, I think 17, and of those, 15 were placed and the process went ahead; for two, the decision was made, agreed to by all of the members in this House, that those locations were not right, and so there were relocations put in place.

I say to the member opposite, we will continue to place energy infrastructure around the province, as is responsible. There needs to be a better process, and these two processes demonstrate there needed to be a better up-front procedure, but we will continue to build energy infrastructure in the province.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Taras Natyshak: Today, Chris Breen, a representative of TransCanada, said that they found it strange that the government passed regulations to ensure unpopular plants in northern York went ahead in opposition-held ridings but cancelled two unpopular private power plants in Liberal ridings. It seems strange indeed. Why is this Liberal government more interested in protecting seats than in listening to Ontarians?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Government House leader.

Hon. John Milloy: What I find strange is that the honourable member failed to acknowledge that his party was out campaigning against the Mississauga plant.

You know, let’s talk about the justice committee. Let’s talk—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Hamilton East–Stoney Creek will come to order.

Hon. John Milloy: Let’s talk about Greg Rohn, the Coalition of Homeowners for Intelligent Power, a group in Mississauga that was opposed to the plant. They came in front of the justice committee, and this is what they had to say: Yes, “The NDP were against the plant.... The NDP came in and attended our rally.” I can go to someone perhaps a bit more famous—Mayor Hazel McCallion in Mississauga. You know what she told the committee? “The impression that was certainly given beyond a doubt ... I think all parties would have cancelled it; there’s no question about it.”

How can the honourable member from a party that opposed this plant stand in his seat and ask those types of questions? The simple fact of the matter is, the New Democratic Party was firmly opposed to the Mississauga power plant.

ONTARIO BUDGET

Ms. Helena Jaczek: My question is for the Minister of Finance. Minister, Ontario has strong economic fundamentals and has weathered the great global recession. We are stronger than ever, but there is more to be done to ensure our economy continues to create good, high-paying jobs.

My constituents of Oak Ridges–Markham are eagerly awaiting the upcoming budget. They are eager to see the new government’s plan to balance the budget by 2017-18. They also value investments in infrastructure and initiatives to transform and renew Ontario’s essential public services. Could you please update the House on when you will deliver the budget and speak to some of the themes it will address?

Hon. Charles Sousa: Thank you to the industrious member from Oak Ridges–Markham for the question and her tireless efforts to support her constituents.

As I formally announced yesterday, Ontario’s budget will be introduced on Thursday, May 2. It will be a budget that speaks to the needs of all Ontarians, wherever they may live. It will establish a clear and concise path to balance by 2017-18, and will detail measures to achieve that success and that plan.

It also moves forward on 60% of Don Drummond’s recommendations to build on the success of modernizing Ontario’s public service, ensuring that a cost-effective and sustainable manner is proceeded.

Ontario is already ahead of its deficit reduction targets for the fourth year in a row, and I was pleased to announce this past Monday that our updated projection for the last fiscal year has decreased by $5 billion.

Ontario’s budget will also commit to building Ontario’s strong economic fundamentals, invest in young people, focus on public transit, and support strong municipal infrastructure.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Helena Jaczek: Again through you to the Minister of Finance: I am pleased to hear that you plan to introduce a budget that speaks to the needs of all Ontarians. It is important that, as part of this new plan, we hear from all Ontarians.

Ontario is a diverse province that celebrates our unique backgrounds. As we know, this government has made it a priority to reach all Ontarians and act on the concerns and ideas that are voiced. Could you please tell this House how you consulted with Ontarians from across the province in preparation for the budget?

Hon. Charles Sousa: I’m pleased to say that Ontario’s budget will be among the most widely consulted documents tabled in this House to date. Over the course of these last several months, we have undertaken a wide range of consultations with individuals across the province. In fact, the budget will speak to most of what the members opposite, in both parties, are also looking for, but more importantly, to what the people of Ontario have asked.

We have held eight in-person town halls in nine cities across the region. During these town halls, we have heard from over 300 groups and individuals that expressed their ideas and concerns. And through our digital engagement strategy, we have reached over 600,000 Ontarians in 25 ridings.

Members of the Standing Committee on Finance and Economic Affairs have also undertaken an array of consultations. I thank them, all members from both sides, as well as the members from Oakville, Scarborough–Agincourt, Mississauga East–Cooksville and Vaughan, as well as all the 150 stakeholders who participated in the five cities.

The legislative committee’s hard work has been delivered to me in a comprehensive report that documents all opinions after being heard. It will be reflected in Ontario’s budget.

POWER PLANTS

Mr. Jeff Yurek: My question is for the Premier. It would seem your government has a case of selective memory when it comes to the cancelled gas plants. Let me give you some examples. Nobody, including two cabinet ministers, can recall a documented $710-million deal with TransCanada. Somehow, your government forgot to include $85 million in your original $190-million costing of the Mississauga gas plant. You apparently couldn’t remember anything despite two former energy ministers admitting under oath that the Mississauga decision was made by the campaign team that you co-chaired. Apparently, a selective memory has never been more convenient.

Premier, the people of Ontario should have confidence in the Office of the Premier. Will you uphold the honour of the office and give us the total cost of the Oakville plant today?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Government House leader.

Hon. John Milloy: Again, it’s one of those where you don’t know where to start. First of all, the member from Nipissing has said that he wouldn’t believe any figures that we came out with anyway, so we asked the Auditor General to look into it. That wasn’t good enough, the fact that we have an officer of the Legislature, so we came forward to the committee yesterday and asked to have a special session with the Ontario Power Authority, where they could ask numerous technical questions and get into as much detail as possible.

Once again, I wanted to know if there was something wrong with my television. I saw the opposition vote against it. Instead, they spent today, the NDP and the Conservatives, trying to work behind the scenes to make sure that the Leader of the Opposition would not come forward.

If you want to talk about collective amnesia, it’s the fact that the party over there has forgotten that they firmly opposed this gas plant in the last election. They would have done exactly the same thing had they formed government.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Jeff Yurek: Premier, I ask about the honour of the office, you send out the second string and say, “Let them eat cake.”

Back to you, Premier: Let’s be honest. You do know the full cost of the gas plants. The Auditor General has testified that you have all the information you need. You know the costs now and you knew them then.

What’s worse than your willful ignorance is your refusal to take ownership and correct the record following the Auditor General’s report proving this government lowballed the cost of Mississauga.

Premier, this behaviour is insulting to me; it’s insulting to the opposition; it’s insulting to the people of Ontario. The truth is not a luxury; the Ontario people deserve to have it. Will you stop the deception and give us the totals of the gas plant—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. Be seated, please.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The Attorney General, come to order.

The member will withdraw.

Mr. Jeff Yurek: Withdraw.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Government House leader.

Hon. John Milloy: Mr. Speaker, we have asked the Auditor General, who is an officer of the Legislature, to report to the committee. The member speaks about what’s happened with the gas plants and what the cost and figures are.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Both of you need to stop.

Hon. John Milloy: Mr. Speaker, as I have noted many times in this Legislature, his leader and his party opposed the gas plants. They sent out tweets; they sent out press releases; they made YouTube videos; they had robocalls. They passed out pamphlets to the people within the riding.

The fact of the matter is, we would like to know about the cost analysis of that party. We would like to know about the types of detailed work and study that they’re asking if we had undertaken; well, the same questions hopefully will be asked by them.

Mr. Speaker, I hasten to observe that not a single member has confirmed whether the Leader of the Opposition will be there next Tuesday, despite the machinations of the PC and the NDP.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I’m going to mention this again. When members are answering, I’m hearing heckling from the same side, which only provokes, and when I hear some questions being put, I hear some heckling which does not help the matter either. Then I follow up with—then it gets between banter between members that has nothing to do with the question or the answer.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I’m going to ask the member from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke not to make comments while I’m speaking. I am getting frustrated with the amount of—shall I call it “talkback”?—when I’m trying to do the job that I’m supposed to do. It’s not helpful.

I’m going to ask us to kind of tone it up instead of going to the bottom.

New question.

PROTECTION FOR WORKERS

Ms. Cindy Forster: My question is to the Premier. On January 16, more than 100 people lost their jobs when a US-owned Vertis Communications company abruptly closed in Fort Erie. Many of those workers are here in the gallery today.

Since then, they’ve been fighting to get $2.4 million worth of pension plans, benefits and severance packages that they are owed. But because Vertis Communications filed for bankruptcy protection in the US, the federal Wage Earner Protection Program does not apply to them.

What does the Liberal government intend to do about this deplorable situation for these Ontario workers?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Labour.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: I thank the member for the question. I share the member’s concerns and the frustration of the workers from the Stevensville plant. Any time someone loses a job, any time a plant closes, it is difficult for the worker, it is extremely difficult for their family and it’s a huge concern for the whole community.

The federal government has exclusive jurisdiction over bankruptcies and insolvencies, and we have made our government’s position very clear to them. The federal government’s inaction on this issue is unacceptable. It should make no difference whether the bankruptcy happens in Canada or south of the border. These workers deserve fairness and access to the same rights as any other worker in Ontario.

I’d like to thank the member opposite for bringing this issue forward, and the member from Niagara Falls, who has been working very closely with me to ensure that we find some help and some resolution to the plight of the workers in Stevensville.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Cindy Forster: Back to the Premier: It’s clear that the federal program does not cover these workers in this particular situation. We’re talking about 100 workers, some of them the wife and the husband working at this company. They gave their lives to this company—some more than 35 years. Now they’re being shortchanged $2.4 million in severance, in benefits and in pension plan contributions. The provincial government is responsible for ensuring that workers get the severance that is rightfully theirs.

Premier, you have to fix this. You have a responsibility to act. What are you going to do to fix this problem for these workers?

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: I have to make it very clear: I’ve been working very closely with the local union leadership, and I welcome them here today. I, along with three previous Ministers of Labour, have written to the federal government asking them to broaden the scope of the Wage Earner Protection Program. My focus is on making sure that this does not happen to another worker in Ontario.

Just three weeks into my role as minister, I was speaking to the MPP from Niagara Falls on this matter. On March 4, I spoke with CEP local and national union representatives. On March 6, I wrote to the federal Minister of Labour, Lisa Raitt, urging the federal government to close this loophole.

We will continue to work to ensure that the federal government takes concrete action to protect workers like the ones from Stevensville’s plant so that all workers from Ontario are protected and that their rightful severance is protected under the law.

PROTECTION FOR WORKERS

Mr. Kim Craitor: I’m really pleased that I’m able to follow my colleague from the third party on the same subject. Dan Wickson, who is here and who is the president—I’m glad that you’ve taken time, and I know some of the members have.

Listen, this is absolutely disgusting: 100 workers, brothers and sisters of mine, and an American company that decides to file bankruptcy in United States and then sells their assets to another American company that comes in and closes the plant. I’ve stood on the picket line with the workers. I’ve been to the media, and the real crux of this is that we need to have some changes with the provincial and federal government, particularly in the area of the Bankruptcy Act, so that the act says that if you file the American side, it’s—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Question.

Mr. Kim Craitor: —on the Canadian side.

Through you to the Minister: Can you just comment on some of the things that we’ve been trying to do, not only for these workers but for workers in the future, so this doesn’t happen again?

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: I really want to commend the member from Niagara Falls. From the moment that I became Minister of Labour, he’s been working along with me to find solutions to this very serious problem. He has been able to bring the local representatives and been able to bring national representatives so that we can find practical solutions. Talk is cheap in these kinds of things because there are 100 families that are involved in this scenario, and we need to find concrete solutions. That’s why I’ve taken action on this from the very first day, urging the federal government to step up to the plate, do the right thing, broaden the scope of the Wage Earner Protection Program and—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Order. Thank you.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: Speaker, this is obviously difficult for the workers. It’s difficult for the families and of course it’s a challenge for the community. I will continue to work along with the member from Niagara Falls and the member from Welland so that we can all collectively work and ensure the federal government does the right thing.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Kim Craitor: My supplementary question is to the Minister of Labour as well. You know—this isn’t in my notes. It’s absolutely disgusting. These people take the time to come here—I thank you for doing that—and then we sit here and argue back and forth. I’m not special. I have spent time at the demonstrations you’ve had. Dan, you know that.

It’s absolutely disgusting when an American company can lay charges against the workers and drag them into court because they say that they have trespassed by demonstrating in front of the plant to let them know. I attended the court hearings with them to show my support. We were able to accomplish some things and put some things on hold.

This government is, and I am, trying to find a solution. We can heckle back and forth—

Mr. Rick Bartolucci: That doesn’t help.

Mr. Kim Craitor: That doesn’t help. To the workers—

Interjection.

Mr. Kim Craitor: It’s not about pensions. Listen up. It’s not about pensions. Jeez.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Niagara Falls—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. The member—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Order, please.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Order, please. Thank you. The member from Niagara Falls will withdraw. He has said something unparliamentary.

Mr. Kim Craitor: I certainly will. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): And I would ask all the armchair people to kind of let me do my job.

The member has put his question. The Minister of Labour will answer.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: You can see the passion in the member from Niagara Falls. That is the passion he has brought on this file. It is evident here today, and I thank him for his representation for this community.

Speaker, I want to tell you what I’ve asked, specifically, of the federal Minister of Labour, Lisa Raitt, in my letter to her on March 6. I specifically have asked her to expand the scope of the Wage Earner Protection Program beyond bankruptcies and receiverships to include all situations when a company closes and fails to pay money owed to its workers. In addition, I have asked the minister to review the cap on this program and give consideration to extending secured-creditor status to workers who are owed termination and severance pay.

I will continue to press upon the federal minister that these changes be b