Manitoba Hansard — 26 June 1997 (Sitting 68B, 36th Legislature, 3rd Session)

36-3-68b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session- Thirty-Sixth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Louise M. Dacquay Speaker Vol. XLVII No. 68B • 1:30 p.m., Thursday, June 26, 1997 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Sixth Legislature Member Constituency Political Aff"iliation ASHTON, Steve Thompson N.D.P. BARRETT, Becky Wellington N.D.P. CERILLI, Marianne Radisson N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave Kildonan N.D.P. CUMMINGS, Glen, Hon. Ste. Rose P.C. DACQUAY, Louise, Hon. Seine River P.C. DERKACH, Leonard, Hon. Roblin-Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P. DOER, Gary Concordia N.D.P. DOWNEY, James, Hon. Arthur-Virden P.C. DRIEDGER, Albert Steinbach P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. ENNS, Harry, Hon. Lakeside P.C. ERNST, Jim Charleswood P.C. EVANS, Clif Interlake N.D.P. EVANS, Leonard S.

Brandon East N.D.P. FILMON, Gary, Hon. Tuxedo P.C. FINDLAY, Glen, Hon. Springfield P.C. FRIESEN, Jean Wolseley N.D.P. GAUDRY, Neil St. Boniface Lib. GILLESHAMMER, Harold, Hon. Minnedosa P.C. HELWER, Edward Gimli P.C. HICKES, George Point Douglas N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. KOWALSKI, Gary The Maples Ind. LAMOUREUX, Kevin Inkster Lib. LATHLIN, Oscar The Pas N.D.P. LAURENDEAU, Marcel St. Norbert P.C. MACKINTOSH, Gord St. Johns N.D.P. MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood N.D.P. MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McALPINE, Gerry Sturgeon Creek P.C. McCRAE, James, Hon. Brandon West P.C. McGIFFORD, Diane Osborne N.D.P.

MciNTOSH, Linda, Hon. Assiniboia P.C. - MIHYCHUK, MaryAnn St. James N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie, Hon. River East P.C. NEWMAN, David, Hon. Riel P.C. PENNER, Jack Emerson P.C. PITURA, Frank, Hon. Morris P.C. PRAZNIK, Darren, Hon. Lac du Bonnet P.C. RADCLIFFE, Mike, Hon. River Heights P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. REIMER, Jack, Hon. Niakwa P.C. RENDER, Shirley St. Vital P.C. ROBINSON, Eric Rupertsland N.D.P. ROCAN, Denis Gladstone P.C. SALE, Tim Crescentwood N.D.P. SANTOS, Conrad Broadway N.D.P. STEFANSON, Eric, Hon. Kirktield Park P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan Dauphin N.D.P. SVEINSON, Ben La Verendrye P.C.

TOEWS, Vic, Hon. Rossmere P.C. TWEED, Mervin Turtle Mountain P.C. VODREY, Rosemary, Hon. Fort Garry P.C. WOWCHUK, Rosann Swan River N.D.P. Vacant Portage Ia Prairie

532 1 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Thursday, June 26, 1997 The House met at 1: 30 p.m. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS PRESEN TING PETITIONS CRTC Presentation Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin): Mr. Deputy Spea ker, I beg to present the petition of Rosemary Friesen, Mario DaRosa, John Ochit we and others praying that the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba request that the Premier (Mr.. Filmon) and the minister of tele ommunica tions make presentations before the CRTC opposing such hikes in local rates. READING AND RECEIVING PETITIONS Obstetric:s Closure-Grace General Hospital Mr.

Deputy Speaker: I have reviewed the petition of the honoura bl1� member for St. James (Ms. Mihychuk), and it complies with the rules and pract ices of the House. Is it the will of the House to have the petition read? An Honourable Member: Yes. Mr. Deputy Speake r: Yes. The Clerk will read. Mr.

Clerk (William Remnant): The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba humbly sheweth: THAT the obstetrics program has always been an important part of the Grace Hospital's mandate; an d THAT both people in the community and a number of government studies have recommended aga inst the further closure of community hospitals' obstetrics program s; and THAT as a result of federal and provincial cuts in the health budget, hospitals are being fo rced to eliminate program s in order to balance their own budgets; an d THAT the closure of the Grace Hospital obstetrics ward will mean laying off 54 health care prof essionals, many of whom have years of experience and dedicated service in obstetrics; and THAT moving to a model where more and more births are centred in the tertiary care hospitals will be more costly and decreases the choices for women about where they can give birth.

WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba request that the Minister of Health (Mr. Prazn ik) consider stopping the closure of the obstetrics program at Winnipeg's Grace Hospital. CRTC Presentation Mr. Deputy Speaker: I have reviewed the petition of the honourable member for Dauphin (Mr. Struthers), and it complies with the rules and prac tices of the House. Is it the will of the House to have the petition read? Yes. The Clerk will read. Mr.

Clerk: The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba humbly sheweth: THAT the Manitoba Telephone System as a public asset served this province well for over 80 years providing province-wide service, some of the lowest local rates in North America, thousands of jobs and keeping profits in Ma nitoba ; and THAT contrary to promises made in 19 96 by the provincial governmen t, the majority of shares of the privatized MTS are controlled outside the province of Manitoba; and

532 2 LEGISLATIVE ASS EMBLY OF MANITOBA June 26, 1997 THAT on June 16 , 19 97, MTS requested from the CRTC a $5 increase per month for 19 98, one of the highest increases in the country; and THAT this follows previous increases ordered by the provincial government in 19 95, 19 96 and 19 97; and THAT these increases mean that for some communities in the Parklands will have almost doubled since 19 95, with Dauphin alone having an increase of 87 percent when the rate for Y orkton, Saskatchewan, under the publicly owned Saskatchewan Telephone System is $5 per month less; and THAT MTS is requesting a rate of return of 13 percent per year from CR TC and to do this wants to raise local rates further above the rate cap in the 19 98 going-in rates; and THAT, contrary to promises made by the provincial government, MTS under private ownership is moving rapidly to raise local rates in rural and northern Manitoba.

WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba request that the Premier (Mr. Filmon) and the minister of tele ommunications make presentations before the CR TC opposing such hikes in local rates. PRESENTING REPORTS BY STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES Standing Committee on Economic Development Fifth Report Mr. Mervin Tweed (Cha irperson of the Standing Committee on Economic Development): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I wonder if I might have leave to present the Fifth Report of the Standing Committee on Economic Development. Mr.

Deputy Speaker: Does the honourable member have leave? [agreed] Mr. Tweed: I wish to present the Fifth Report of the Committee on Economic Development. An Honourable Member: Dispense. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Dispense. Your Standing Committee on Economic Development presents the fo llowing as its Fifth Report. Your committee met on Monday, June 23, 19 97, at 7 p. m., Tuesday, June 24, 19 97, at 10 a. m., Tuesday , June 24, 19 97, at 3 p. m. and Wednesday, June 25, 19 97, at 3 p. m. in Room 254 of the Legislative Assembly to consider bills ref erred. At the meeting on June 25, 19 97, your committee elected Mr.

McAlpine as its Vice-Chairperson.

Your committee heard representation on bills as fo llows: Bill 41 -The Regional Health Authorities Amendment and Consequential Amendments Act; Loi modifiant Ia Loi concernant les offi ces nigionaux de Ia sante et modifications correlatives Shirley Timm-Rudolph -City of Winnipeg Ernest Wehr le - Manitoba interfa ith Health Association Bill 50-The Freedom of inf or mation and Protection of Pri vacy and Consequential Amendments Act; Loi su r /'acces a /'inf or mation et Ia protection de Ia vie privee et modifications correlatives Jan Bailey and Mary Scott -The Counsel of Women of Winnipeg Rudy Comeau/! - Carpathia and Westboine Park Housing Co-op Peter Sim-The Manitoba Association fo r Rights and Liberties Paul Nielson -Manitoba Library Association Virginia Menzie -Ombudsman, The City of Winnipeg Fred Vallance-Janes - Canadian Association of Journalists fan Macintyr e -Manitoba Teachers' Society Brian Kelcey - Manitoba Taxpayers Association Written Submission: Robert Andrew Drummond-Private Citizen

June 26, 19 97 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 532 3 Bi/151 -The Personal Health Inf ormation Act;

Loi sur les renseignements medicaux personnels Marilyn Goodyear Whiteley - Pr esident, Manitoba Association of Registered Nurses Peter Sim - Manitoba Association fo r Rights and Liberties Dr. Brian Ritchie -Manitoba Medical Association Marga ret Soper -Consumers Association of Canada (Manitoba Branch) Bill Martin -Canadian Mental Health Association Dr.

Ken Brown - Registrar, College of Phys icians and Surgeons Maureen Hancharyk -Manitoba Nurses Union Your committee has considered: Bill 41 -The Regional Health Authorities Amendment and Consequential Amendments Act; Loi modifiant Ia Loi concernant les offices regionaux de Ia sante et modifications correlatives and has agr eed, on division, to report the same with the fo llowing amendments: Your committee voted to defeat Clauses 7 and 11 (3) of the bill. MOTION: THAT the proposed su bsection 28(2), as set out in subsection sm of the Bill, be amended by striking out ", encumber or" and su bstituting "or otherwise".

MOTION: THAT the proposed clause 46(3) (a), as set out in

section 9 of the Bill, be amended by striking out "section 35 " and su bstituting "section 35. 1 ". MOTION: THAT subsection 56.1 (5), as set out in

section 13 of the Bill, be struck out. MOTION: THAT subsection 19 (6) of the Bill be struck out and the fo llowing su bstituted: 19

(6) Clause 70(J)(

b) is amended by adding "which has the responsibility to provide the hospital services, personal care services or other health services that were last provided by the hospital, personal care home or other health fa cility " aft er "that health region ". MOTION: THAT Legislative Counsel be authorized to change all

section numbers and internal ref erences necessary to carry out the amendments adopted by this committee. Your committee has also considered: Bi/150-The Freedom of Inf ormation and Pr otection of Pr ivacy and Consequential Amendments Act;

Loi sur l'acces a /'inf ormation et Ia protection de Ia vie privee et modifications correlatives and has agreed, on division, to report the same with the fo llowing amendments: MOTION: THAT clause 10 (1) (

b) of the Bill be amended by striking out "the head is of the opinion that ". MOTION: THAT su bsection 13 (1) of the Bill be struck out and the fo llowing su bstituted: Repetitive or incomprehensible request 13(1) A head of a public body may ref use to give access to a record or a part of a record if the request zs repetitive or incomprehensible or is fo r inf ormation already provided to the applicant or that is publicly available. MOTION: THAT clauses 19(J)(

d) and (

e) be amended by adding "directly " after "relating". MOTION: THAT subsection 23(1) be amended (

a) by adding "or" at the end of clause (e); (

b) by striking out clause(/}; and

532 4 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 26, 19 97 (

c) by relettering clause (

g) as clause (/). (

c) the trustee reasonably believes the disclosure to be acceptable to the individual or his or her MOTION: representative. THAT clause 23(2) (

d) be amended by striking out MOTION: every thing after "conducted by orfo r the public body". THAT clause 63(3){

a) of the Bill be amended by MOTION: striking out "or discloses" and substituting ", sells or discloses". THAT subsection 28(2) be amended by str iking out clauses (

a) and (

b) and substituting ''for the purpose of developing methods of testing or fo r the purpose of testing products fo r possible purchase ". MOTION: THAT subsection 70(2) of the Bill be amended by adding "give or" befo re "ref use to give". MOTION: THAT subsection 85 (1) be amended by striking out "$20, 000." in that part of the subsection fo llowing clause (

d) and substi tuting "$50, 000. " Your committee has also considered: Bill 51 -The Personal Health Inf ormation Act;

Loi sur les renseignements medicaux personnels and has agr eed, on division, to report the same with the fo llowing amendments: MOTION: THAT clause 21 (

d) of the Bill be amended by adding "by the tru stee" aft er "pay ment fo r health care" in subclause (

i) and (ii). MOTION: THAT subsection 23(1 ) be amended by striking out everything aft er "if' and substi tuting the fo llowing: (

a) the disclosur e is about health care curr ently being prov ided; (

b) the disclosur e is made in accordance with good medical or other prof essional practice; and MOTION: THAT su bsections 6.J{

l) and (2) be amended by str iking out "$20, 000. "and substi tuting "$50, 000. " Your committee has also considered: Bill 61-The Sustainable Development and Consequential Amendments Act;

Loi sur le developpement durable et modifications correlatives and has agreed to report the same with the fo llowing amendments: MOTION: THAT clause 14(

c) be struck out and the fo llowing substi tuted: (

c) establish procurement goals in support of the established provincial goals, and prepar e an action plan to meet its established goals; Mr. Tweed : I move, seconded by the honourab le member for Gimli (Mr. Helwer), that the report of the committee be received. Motion agr eed to. * (1335 ) Standing Committee on Law Amendments Seventh Report Mr. Jack Penner (Cha irperson of the Standing Committee on Law Amendments): I wonder, Mr. Deputy Speaker, whether I would have leave to present the Seventh Report of the Standing Committee on Law Am endments. -

June 26, 19 97 LEGISLATIVE ASS EMBLY OF MANITOBA 5325 Mr. Deputy Speaker: Does the honourable member have leave? [agreed] Mr. Penner: I would like to present then the Seventh Report of the Standing Committee on Law Amendments. An Honoura1ble Member: Dispense. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Dispense. Your Standing Committee on Law Amendments presents the fo llowing as its Seventh Report. Your committee met on Tuesday, June 24, 19 97, at 10 a. m. and Wednesday, June 25, 19 97, at 3 p. m. in Room 255 of the Legislative Building to consider bills refe rred.

Your committee heard representation on bills as fo llows: Bill 38-The Highwa y Traffic Amendment Act (2); Loi no 2 modifiant le Code de Ia route Dianna Bussey - The Salvation Arm y Correctional and Justice Services Bil/52-The Statute Law Amendment Act, 19 97; Loi de 19 97 modifiant diverses dispositions legislatives Dave Lindsay - Private Citizen Bil/56-The Family Maintenance Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la

Loi sur !'obligation alimentaire Rosella Dy ck -Coalition of Custodial Parents Bill 58-The Law Ref orm Commission Amendment Act; Loi modifiant Ia

Loi sur Ia Commission de refo rme du droit Major W. Loveless -Golden West Centennial Lodge Susan Riley -Manitoba Association of Women and the Law Inc. Pat Ritchie -Chair of the Ethics Committee, Grace General Hospital Doug Finkbeiner -Law Society of Manitoba Cliff Edwards -Law Ref orm Commission Garth Smorang -Manitoba Bar Association Valerie Price -Manitoba Association fo r Rights and Liberties Your committee has considered: Bil/38-The Highway Traffic Amendment Act (2); Loi no 2 modifiant le Code de la route Bill 42-The Provincial Cour t Amendment and Consequential Amendments Act; Loi modifiant Ia

Loi sur Ia Cour provinciale et modifications correlatives Bi/!43-The Law Society Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la Societe du Barr eau Bil/45-The Manitoba Evidence Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la

Loi sur Ia preuve au Manitoba Bill 56-The Family Maintenance Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la

Loi sur !'obligation alimentaire and has agreed to report the same, without amendment. Your committee has also considered: Bill 46-The Criminal Injuries Compensation Amendment Act; Loi modifi ant Ia

Loi sur l'indemnisation des victimes d'actes cr iminels and has agreed, on a counted vote of 5 Ayes, 3 Nays to report the same, without amendment. Your committee has also considered: Bill 60-The Elderly and Infirm Persons ' Housing Amendment Act; Loi modifiant Ia

Loi sur le logement des infi rmes et des personnes dgees and has agreed, on division, to report the same, without amendment. Your committee has also considered: Bill 52-The Statute Law Amendment Act, 19 97; Loi de 19 97 modifiant diverses dispositions !egislatives and has agreed, on division, to report the same, with the fo llowing amendments:

532 6 LEGISLATIVE AS SEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 26, 19 97 Your committee voted to defeat Clause 22 of the bill. MOTION: THAT Legislative Counsel be author ized to change all

section nu mbers and internal references necessary to carry out the amendments adopted by this co mmittee. Your committee has also considered: Bill 58-The Law Ref orm Commission Amendment Act; Loi modifiant Ia Loi su r Ia Commission de refo rme du droit and has agreed on a counted vote of 6 Ayes and 4 Nays to report the same with the fo llowing amendment: MOTION: THAT

section 3 of the Bill be struck out and the fo llowing su bstituted: 3 Subsection 5(3) is repealed. Mr. Penner: I move, seconded by the honourab le member for Steinba ch (Mr. Driedger), that the report of the committee be now received. Motion agreed to. TABLING OF REPORTS Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I am pleased to table the Report of Amounts Paid to Members of the Assembly for the year ended March 31, 19 97. Hon. James Downey (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): Mr.

Deputy Speaker, I am pleased to ta ble the Annual Report fo r 19 96-97 for the Manitoba Horse Racing Commission. Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Mr. Deputy Spea ker, I am pleased to table the Eleventh Annual Report of the Manitoba Law Foundation. House Business Hon. James McCrae (Government House Leader): Mr. Deputy Spea ker, on a matter of House business, I would like to announce that, should things work out, at 3: 15 p.m. the Standing Committee on Law Amend ments will meet to continue its deliberations on Bill 48. Mr.

Deputy Speaker: The Committee on Law Amendments will reconstitute itself at 3: 15 p.m. this afternoon on Bill 48. Mr. McCrae: And we need leave, of course, Mr. Deputy Speaker, fo r that to happen. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Is there leave? [agreed] ORAL QUESTION PERIOD Education System Funding-Ru ral Manitoba Mr. Gar y Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Mr.

Deputy Speaker, we have been maintaining for a long time on this side that you cannot have an economic strategy without an education strategy, and, of course, the funding cuts, we believe, work against not only the best interests of our students but the best interests of our long-term economic opportunities. I would like to ask the Acting Premier: Why has this government, through its funding cuts to public education, removed some $25 million alone from our rural communities in Manitoba? Hon. James Downey (Deputy Premier): Mr. Deputy Speaker, let me, at the outset, say that this government, under this Premier (Mr.

Filmon), and this group of people in this caucus have made education one of the top priorities-health, education, fam ily services, job creation and economic growth. I can tell you it is working. When we look at the job opportunities for our students, we are looking at job opportunities in all areas of our society. Those opportunities are there. As it rela tes to fun ding, we have increased the funding in education by over a hundred million dollars since we have come into office . - -

June 26, 19 97 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 532 7 Mr. Doer: Thank you for that tirade-[in terjection] Well, I have a report from the Rural Institute, which is located in the eommunity of Brandon, which has done a review up till 19 96. Of course, 19 96 the government cut another 2 percent, and then in 19 97 they had a zero percent increase to public education.

But the Rural Institute of Manitoba, an independent body studying the impact of Tory cuts over the last five years on education, has stated that $25 million has been removed from the rural economy through the cutbacks of this Tory government on public education, and it says it has had two impacts. It has weakened the inf rastructure in our communities, and it denies students in th�:ir communities the opportunity to get fa ir and reasonablle public education.

I would like to ask this Acting Premier: Why have you removed that $25 million away from the futures of our communities and the futures of our children in our public education system? * (1 340) Hon. Linda Mcintosh (Minister of Education and Training): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I apprec iate the member talking about selective years, but the fa ct is what the Deputy Premier has indica ted is absolutely correct.

In the time that we have been in office, we have increased funding to public schools by $115 million, and you saw a slight dip in our funding for a period of three years of 2 percent cuts during the time that our tra nsfer payments really hit us and we had to make adjustments. But a $1 15 -million increase overall is still an incn�ase, despite the fact that we had a year or two when the:re were fluctua tions.

I have to indicate the very important fa ct that I think needs to be understood by members opposite, and that is, in the last decade for which we have up-to-date statistics endin g at the end of 19 95, between 19 85 and 19 95 provincial funding to education in Manitoba, to public school eduction stayed in pace with inflation. And so if you look at constant dolla rs as well, constant dollars will show increased spending power in Manitoba with constant dolla rs. Mr. Doer: This is research report No. 8, Research in Rural Education.

This is an independent study, not the minister's political comments that she put on the record. It further states that the $25-million removal-and we know that public education funding went up in the late '80s because we know there was a more fav ourable government in the late '80s. You can quote '85 all you want. We also know during the minority government you were forced to raise public educati on. It has been since then that you have been hacking and. slashing public educati on. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, the report goes on to say that it begs the question why this government is taking such a short-term perspective where it is willing to sacrifice the long-term benefits of public education and willing to sacrifice the long-term future of rural communities by their hacking and slashing and cutting for our future. Why are you doing this, Mr. Acting Premier? Mr. Downey: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I can go through every industry in this province that today needs educated people, and there are job opportunities.

From the North from the mining sector to the southwest to the oil production area, to the manuf acturing centre of the bus industry, to the agriculture sector, to the high technology industries sector there are tremendous demands. Another piece of informa tion that came from the Department of Education that I believe-and this is a report that is out-80 percent of the graduates of Red River Community College had jobs within six months of their gradua tion. So the point is that there are jobs, and the education system is responding to educate those people.

There has not been a cutback in education, other than from that of the federal government of some 220 to $40 million in health and education. Education System Funding Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Mr. Deputy Speaker, when fa ced with real teachers and parents who paint a true picture of the diminishing classroom resources, the government's response ranges from bewilderment to belligerence, often in the same sentence but certainly within the same government.

The problem is that this rigid and ideological government now actual ly believes its own propaga nda that they put more money into education, but the reality is, as any parent or consumer will tell you, it is the purchasing power that matters, it is what it will buy that counts in the classroom.

5328 LEGISLATIVE AS SEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 26, 19 97 I would like to ask the Minister of Education to confirm, using 19 88 constant dollars, that her government's operating support for public schools in Manitoba is now $98 million a year less than it was in 19 90. * (1 345) Hon. Linda Mcintosh (Minister of Education and Training): Mr. Deputy Spea ker, not accepting any of the rather dramatic pream ble, which the member is prone to presenting to the House, I have to indicate that in constant dolla rs the spending power of divisions is as good, better, slightly better than it was when they were in power.

I would invite her to attend my office for an in-depth briefing with the financial people in my depa rtment so that she can understand what that means. I also indicate that, due to a change in funding formula long requested by school divisions, the funding formula now will apply to all school divisions and has an equal ization fa ctor built into it that was not there before-a distinct improvement. Again, Mr. Deputy Spea ker, I would invite her to come for that. My department would be very pleased to brief her or anybody else tha t would like to attend with her on how the funding fo rmula works.

Bottom line, bottom line that cannot be denied is that, in the last decade for which statistics are avai lable, funding to the province was constant in terms of inflation. Ms.

Friesen: Is the minister prepared now to listen seriously to the views of teachers presented to her today, which confirm what parents, students, trustees have been saying for many years, that not only are the resources in significa nt areas such as special needs inadequate but also that, as the FRAME reports show, the purchasing power of provincial education support has been so reduced by her government that it is now $98 million less a year than in 19 90, and that is what is having the dramatic eff ects on the classrooms? Mrs.

Mcintosh: Regarding the report card on public schools submitted by the teachers' union this morning, first of all I indicate that two-thirds of teachers in Manitoba did not respond to the survey, for starters. I was presented with my survey, which I then compared to my school division. The member has mentioned several points in her question. May I respond to one of them? She talked about special needs and so on.

On my survey, 67 percent of the teachers who responded from my division, which is about a third if the provincial norm that they have put out is true, said that the assistance for special needs students has decreased, and yet when I checked with my school division, they have indicated that fo r the last few years they have increased assistance in the classroom by 10 to 15 positions a year and have 15 positions being added yet again this year. So it simply is not true. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Wolseley, with her final supplementary question. Ms.

Friesen: Would the minister confirm that one of the consequences of that reduced purchasing power is that each school division now has $500 Jess per-pupil, per-year support from the Filmon government than it did in 19 90 and that the lack of classroom resources, the increased class sizes are a direct result of her government's calcula ted decision to cut the public schools? Mrs. Mcintosh: No, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I will not confirm that, nor will! accept the

preamble the member has put on the record full of al legations. *( 1350) Bill 50 Independent Schools Ms. Diane McGifford (Osborne): Mr. Deputy Spea ker, the new freedom of inf ormation and privacy protection legislation certainly protects the secrecy of private schools because the legislation does not apply to them.

The Minister of Education knows that private schools' government funding has increased about 300 percent since 1988, and now it is probably a greater percentage of their budgets than it is of most universities, which of course are covered by freedom of inf ormation and privacy protection, so I want to ask the Minister of Education why the freedom of inf ormation and privac y protection legislation does not apply to private schools when they are so highly funded by government and public monies. -

- June 26, 19 97 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 532 9 Hon. Linda Mcintosh (Minister of Education and Training): Again, there were several points in the question, and I presume I will only have a chance to answer a few in the limitations constrained upon those who answer questions. Mr. Deputy Speaker, the member talks in percentage s. The member should like to, as the member, her colleague did, refer to dolla rs as well. I indi cate to the member that students in independent schools in Manitoba receive $30 million a year versus $746 million a year for public schools.

That is a result of an out-of-court settlement. The members are fully aware of the implications of heading to the Supreme Court on the Manitoba question of the 18 70 act. They know then we would have ended up with a hundred percent fun ding. These people are being funded- Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. Point of Order Mr. Steve Ashton (Opposition House Leader): Mr. Deputy Spea ker, on a point of order.

Beauchesne Citation 417 indicates: "Answers to questions should be as brief as possible, deal with the matter raised and should not provoke debate ." The Minister of Education was asked a question about the privacy legislation and why freedom of information does not apply to private schools. I would like to ask you to call her to order and answer, for once, a very serious question being raised by the member. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable government House leader, on the same point of order. Hon. James McCrae (Government House Leader): Mr. Deputy Speaker, on the same point of order.

I am sure that each of us in our own way does our best to try to be responsive to the questions that are put to us, and I know that the Minister of Education and Training is no different from anyone else, and we will take the honourable member's suggestions to heart in our conduct here, and we hope that his colleagues do the same thing in putting their questions in the House. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Thompson did not have a point of order, but I would ask that, when responding to questions, we keep them as brief as possible and to the point. * * * Mr.

Deputy Speaker: The honourable minister had not reached her allo cated time at that time, so I was waiting to see if she had fulfilled it. The honourable minister, to conclude her remarks. Mrs. Mcintosh: I apologize. Every point I was addressing was in the member's prea mble or question, and I am within the time limit. I am trying to do my best to provide a detailed answer, because if I do not provide a detailed answer, they say I am not giving a full answer. If I give a full answer, they say I am taking too long. You just cannot win. Point of Order Mr. Ashton: Mr. Deputy Speaker, on a point of order.

I raised the point of order, you made a ruling. The ruling in that case was you provided advice to the member, and at that point, the member should be standing on her feet to answer the question, not providing editorial meandering comments on your ruling or anything else she wishes to. I would ask, Mr. Deputy Speaker, ask that minister to answer the question. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member fo r Thompson does have a point of order. The honourable minister was recognized to answer the final part of her question. * * * Mr.

Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Osborne, with her second supplementary question. Ms. McGifford: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I would like to reiterate my question and ask the minister why private schools are not covered by freedom of inf ormation and privacy protection legislation when public schools are and when private schools receive public monies. Why the two sets of standards? Where is the accounta bility?

5330 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 26, 19 97 Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Culture, Heritage and Citizenship): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I answered this question for the member yesterday when our bill was passed through the committee stage. I am happy to put the informa tion on the record again. Private schools are not, under the legislation, regulated public bodies.

They receive grants from public funds like many other organizations and institutions in the provincial private sector, including entities such as age ncies which are funded in part, for instance, by Family Services, for example, the Manitoba society fo r persons with disabilities. Mr. Deputy Speaker, funding was not used as the criterion for inclusion under FIPPA because of the wide vari ety of levels and fo rmulas and organizations involved, many types of organiza tions. The Minister of Education (Mrs.

Mcintosh), I know, has clearly explained previously the accounta bility mechanism for private schools, which is clearly spelled out, and I know she would be prepared to answer that in another question. * (1 355) Ms. McGifford: That was not an answer, that was a dance around an answer. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member fo r Osborne was recognized for her final supplementary question. There is no

preamble necessary. Independent Schools Records Manag ement Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Osborne, with her question. Ms. Diane McGifford (Osborne): Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Since, over a year ago, the Minister of Education, with the passage of Bill 48, promised to develop regulations governing record management in private schools, would she either update us on her progress or else assure us that her promise has now been fulfilled? Hon. Linda Mcintosh (Minister of Education and Training): Mr.

Deputy Speaker, I will answer within the time limit, and I hope I will be allowed to say what I need to in that time. Please, I hope they will not cut me of f if they do not like the answer. Mr. Deputy Spea ker- Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mrs. Mcintosh: Please do not take the name of the Lord in vain in this House. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. The honourab le minister, with her answer. Mrs. Mcintosh: Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

I indica te to the member that soon we will arrive at the point when the indep endent schools will receive 50 percent of the cost of educating in the public schools. As we are on our way to that goal, we are undergoing talks at the present time with the independent schools as to the proper way to display the partial funding that they receive from the province. When we have that completed, I will announce it to the public. The member. I am sure, would be interested at that time. I do not have that ready at this date. Bill 55 Consultations-First Nations Mr. Eric Robinson (Rupertsland): Mr.

Deputy Speaker, I have a question for the Minister responsible fo r Native Affairs. As minister responsible for that department and also Manitoba Hydro, I would like to ask the minister what consultation mechanisms have been held with First Nations over the proposed Bill 55 that is currently before us. The feeling coming out of the MKO conf erence in Norway House, currently into its final day, is that they feel that the bill prohibits First Nations and tribal organizations from buying hydro power wholesale for resale to their membership. I would like to ask the minister about his position on that. Hon.

David Newman (Minister of Energy and Mines): Mr. Deputy Speaker, the Manitoba citizens who are Status India ns on reserves had the same rights and privileges to par ticipate in the standing committee

- June 26, 19 97 LEGISLATIVE ASSE MBLY OF MANITOBA 533 1 process at Law Amendments as every other Manitoban, and apparently they chose not to avail themselves of that opportunity. I am sure honourable members opposite representing those communities and my own colleagues conveyed to the constituents in their areas the inf ormation about the process and the opportunity for participating, and if they did not par ticipate directly, I am sure that their views were represented through the officia l opposition and my own government.

Specif ically with respect to the opportunities to become wholesale distributors of power in Manitoba, the legislation expressly limits that to Manitoba Hydro and Winnipeg Hydro. Mr. Robinson: Mr. Deputy Spea ker, to the same minister: Is he at all concerned that several First Nations now question whether they gave up land under TLE to allow potential Hydro projects which will not benefit them in the long run? * (1 400) Mr.

Newman: What I am very pleased to say is that we have achieved through Northern Flood Agreement a comprehensive settlement that is ensuring that more land and resources are going for the benefit of members of communities than ever before. We have in Norway House an atte mpt to resolve through ratification the Norway House settlement, and I know the ratification vote is scheduled for January 29. Cross Lake has run into some difficulties, and at the moment it looks like that is put into a state of suspension, their choice.

We believe that what has been negotiated is for the benefit of both of those communities, but it is entirely up to the ind ividuals of those communities in the ratification process to make their own decisions based on advice given. My hope is that these matters will be resolved soon and for the long-term benefit of the community members. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Rupertsland, with his final supplementary question. Mr. Robinson: Mr.

Deputy Spea ker, I am referring specifically to the MKO conf erence happening in Norway House where newly elected Grand Chief Francis Flett said this morning: There are too many potential implications for the MKO First Nations and Bill 55 for MKO to accept the attempt by Manitoba to unila terally impose this legislation. My question to the minister: Since this bill was clearly not discussed with First Nations prior to introduction, will the minister agree to hoist this bill for six months and do the proper consultation mechanism with First Nations in this province? Mr. Newman: Mr.

Deputy Spea ker, we are always pleased to have discussions with the aboriginal people who are Manitoba citizens like everyone else and have equal rights to all of them and equal privileges. In this particula r respect, I am not prepared to hoist that bill. They had the same opportunity as all citizens of Manitoba to participa te, as I stated earlier, but like any legislation, we can always monitor and review it and see whether or not it is a benefit or an impediment to the economic development and the social development of those communities which all people in this House do support. Education System Funding Mr.

Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): My question is for the Minister of Education. This governmen t through the years has demonstrated an inability to be able to ensure that there is a sense of fa irness and a sense of equity amongst the different schools. In fa ct, in the report card given to public schools it was asked: Availability of technology fo r students has increased. How many teachers agreed to that? In one part of the province 85 percent said yes. In another part of the province 26 percent said yes.

What that says is that there are a lot of inequities in the province of Manitoba with respect to resources for public education, and that is because of the fa ilure of this governmen t to address that issue. My question is: Why? Hon. Linda Mcintosh (Minister of Education and Training): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I am very fond of the member for In kster, as he knows, and I hate like the dickens, whenever he brings up funding for education, to remind him of that which we on this side of the House are so painf ully aware, $220 million gone that we needed to enhance education in Manitoba.

We are still providing the basics and some enhancements-

5332 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 26, 19 97 Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. Point of Order Mr. Lamoureux: Mr. Deputy Speaker, there is a responsibility for the minister to answer the questions that are posed. She consistently says and attempts to blame Ottawa for everything that is going wrong in the province. I think it is time the Minister of Education should take responsibility for what is happening in public education in this province and answer the questions that are being put. The question was: Why the inequities throughout the province? Admi t to your inabiliti es. Mr.

Deputy Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member did not have a point of order. It is clearly a dispute over the fac ts. * * * Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable minister, to conclude her remarks. Mrs. Mcintosh: As I indicat ed, we have continued to provide the basics and some enhancements, but our abil ity to do all that we would like to do has been severely hampered by that money the federal government has taken away from us and did not provide that we were expecting.

Having said that, we have done a number of things in technology that I would be pleased to go through if he asks another question and gives me time, but I will say that I do agree with him in the sense that, as technology comes on stream, it is not coming on stream as quickly as we would like everywhere we would like it to come on stream . We are taking moves to address that. We have put another million dolla rs in just recently. We have got MERLIN up and going, and we expect to see that even out.

But there are inequities right now that we are working to address, and I will tell you how in another question, if he lets me. Mr. Lamoureux: Will the Minister of Education acknowledge it is not a question of how quickly the technology is coming, it is how it is being dispersed through the province. You have some areas- Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. May I ask the honourable member to phrase his question. I am not sure if I did not hear the first part or not, but I do not believe there was a question there. We are entering into debate. The honourable member for Inkster, with his question. Mr.

Lamoureux: The question is: Will the minister acknowledge, when you have 26 percent of teachers saying that there are technology advancements and you have 85 percent saying that there is but in two different areas of the province, that there is a problem there? It is a question of equity and fa irness to all Manitoba ns, not to a selected area of the province. Mrs. Mcintosh: As new curriculum comes on stream, and it is coming on stream-we have some new curricular indications out right now-we will be seeing technolo gy in the curriculum used as part of the teaching experience, technology as a tool for learning.

When we get to that stage, it will be essential that all school divisions have a certain level of technology expertise in their divisions. Right now, divisions that have sort of gone on their own steam have well adva nced. Others who are coming on stream. as we promote this, are coming on behind those that self started some years ago, and I will give a compliment to the federal government now just to make him happy.

The federal government and the provincial government, in their computers fo r schools program s, have now several thousand schools ready in co-operation with CI BC fo r the schools in our computers for schools program s. MERLIN has been helping tremendously to get discounts from suppliers for educational purposes. He and I could talk maybe about how we should do this because if the federal government wants to help, we would be thrilled. Mr. Lamoureux: What would the Minister of Educa tion like to tell the teachers that teach in our public administration?

Ninety-three percent of them say that changes to public schools in the last three years have aff ected students negatively. What would she say to those teachers? Mrs. Mcintosh: I can say, first of all, I would remind the member that only one-third of the teachers in -

June 26, 19 97 LEGISLATIVE ASS EMBLY OF MANITOBA 5333 Manitoba returned this, and exploring the results from my division, I have found it replete with error. I think these are views, not necessarily fac ts. They are feelings and perceptions that one-third of the teachers identified. I am in regular contact with teachers, pract icing teachers in the classrooms, and I regularly visit schools, and I regularly socialize with teachers who tell me a very diff erent story than what the union executive tells me.

There are some points of common ground but not nearly as many as the union executive would like to have us think. The classroom teachers, with whom I interact on a regular basis, have lots of good ideas and suggestions and are working beautif ully with technology, and all of us, I think, are looking forward to the day when every school in Manitoba is as fully equipped as many schools already are. Bill 50 Independent Schools Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): Mr.

Deputy Spea ker, I sent a letter to the minister about a private school where parents are so upset about the management and lack of accountab ility and lack of parent input that they are no longer sending their children to that school, even though they risk not having a ref und of their prepaid tuition. I want to ask the Minister of Education: Given that Bill 50 and the Freedom of Inf ormation provisions do not app ly to private schools, what does she have to say to these parents who would not even be allowed to raise questions about the all ocation of funds at their school boa rd meeting?

Can she explain to them why Bill 50 does not apply to their school? * (1410 ) Hon. Linda Mcintosh (Minister of Education and Training): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I apologize to the member if she sent me the letter. I do not know when she sent it, but I do not recall it. I would appreciate it if she could provide me with a copy-because I think she has one with her-so that I can take a look at the details. What I can say is that parents of students have freedom of choice soon in the public system as well as choosing to go to some other school outside the public system or, indeed, to home school.

We provide those choices for parents, and they can hold their boards accountable in either the public or the private system and can move away from those schools if they are no longer satisfied. I have many parents who have written to me who have moved from public schools to private schools for much the same reason that the member has outlined in the specific example of a parent going from an independent to a public school. We have parents who have chosen to remain at home, because they want to be totally accountable themselves for their students. Ms. Cerilli: Well, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, I will table a copy of the letter and provide another copy to the minister, and ask why the minister is ignoring the recommenda tion of her Advi sory Committee on Education Fin ance which said independent schools receiving funding should be subject to the same accessibility to reporting and accountab ility of requirements as public schools are. Why is she ignoring that with respect to Bill 50 and this school, which is causing a lot of distress for fam ilies? Mrs. Mcintosh: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I believe, in an earlier question from the member for Osborne (Ms.

McGifford), that I answered the question and said that is under discussion right now in terms of what is the most appropriate way to ask fo r accountab ility from schools that are only partly fun ded. Right now, we have the frame fo r those that are fully funded. For those that are partly funded, what is the correct way of showing how those partial funds are submitted? I think the member would find that, even if Bill 50 appl ied right now today, there are very few teachers in the private system making enough, in terms of salary, to be under the disclosure provisions. Independent Schools Accountability Ms.

Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): My final supplementary to the minister is: What accountab ility will there be for this school and these parents that I

5334 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 26, 19 97 have outlined to her in this letter? Will she do an investigation into the management and accountab ility and accounting of this school? Hon. Linda Mcintosh (Minister of Education and Training): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I will certainly take a look at the letter the member has sent me. They probably have one in my office, as well, and as soon as I get the copy here, I will look at it here in the House.

Whenever we have concerns or complai nts about schools, we do check those complaints out when they come from parents because, ultimately, the government is responsible for all education, and we do not let complaints slide. This is the first letter the member alleges these complaints. I have never received a letter complaining about how money is allocated to independ ent schools, so it will be interesting to receive it and see what it has to say. I will be certain to look into it within the confines of my abilities, et cetera. Education System Funding-Special Needs Students Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona): Mr.

Deputy Speaker, today I received the report card on public schools in Manitoba. It indica tes in here that the teachers in the Transcona- Springfield School Division, three-quarters of them, say that assistance for special needs students has decreased. Last week I had the opportunity to attend elementary schools in Transcona to see first-hand special needs students in the classroom, and I observed children with Down's syndrome, and in another case, a particular child with severe language and speech delays only receiving Level I support, in fa ct, some 30 minutes every second day of additional support.

One particular fa mily was paying an additiona l hundred dollars a month through SMD for additional instruction for their child to assist their child to progress, supports that should have been in place in the classroom. I want to ask the Minister of Education to explain why this child and other children only receive 30 minutes every second day of individual instruction, when both special needs teachers and doctors in the Child Development Clinic agree that this child and perhaps others should be, at a minimum, receiving Level II funding for individualized program ming to allow these children to progress.

Why are you not giving that fun ding to those children? Hon. Linda Mcintosh (Minister of Education and Training): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I just want to say that this letter from- this is not a letter from an independent school-on my last question. It is a letter from the member Cerilli citing allega tions given to her by a third party. Nonetheless, I will look into it, but it is not quite what she said- Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for Transcona had asked another question. If the hono urable minister wants to get back to the member fo r Transcona, she can do it a little later.

The honourable minister, to answer the question. Mrs. Mcintosh: I should indica te, first of all, that funding for special needs students has doubled since we took of fice. Under the New Democrats, when they were in power. school divisions were really terrifically burdened. I can recall as a trustee. and I think I have mentioned this in the House bef ore. coming down and pleading with the then minister, I believe it was Mrs. Hemphill at the time-Ms. Hemphill-pleading with her to allow us to have some money from Health to provide for a physiotherapist we had had to hire. She said no. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, funding has doubled for special needs-doubled-more than doubled in fa ct since we took office. It is $7 million more right now than it was a year ago. so it is going up. I also indica te that, if there is a Down's syndrome child in a classroom, there is a wide range of ability.

It could be that child is at Level I, but if it is a Level II child, then the Level II child-the school division gets money for Level II children, and they should be identifying that child and sending it in with a special needs Level II application showing verifica tion, and they should then be receiving money fo r that child. Now they should be spending that money on that child, if they are receiving it for that child, but money for special needs has more than doubled, so let him not say there is no money there. That is wrong.

June 26, 19 97 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 5335 Point of Order Mr. Reid: Mr. Deputy Spea ker, if I might rise on a point of order. For five students, this minister has received application for Level II funding and has denied all five of those students. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. The hono urable government House leader, on the same point of order. Hon. James McCrae (Government House Leader): It would be my respectful submission that what we have is a difference of opinion or a debate between a couple of members of this House, and that would be about it. Mr.

Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Transcona did not have a point of order. It was clearly a dispute over the fa cts. Assessments-Special Needs Students Mr. Deputy Speak er: The honour able member for Transcona, with his second supplementary question. Mr.

Daryl Reid (Transcona): I want to ask the Minister of Education on behalf of these children and their fam ilies, and in this case the Cure fa mily in Transcona-w ill this minister agree to meet with the Cure fam ily to explain to that fam ily why the Education department staff no longer attends schools to observe and assess first-hand the special needs students and now only conducts literature review of that particular child's needs, which excludes both teachers and parents from parti cipa ting in those decisions? Will you agree to meet with that fam ily to discuss why you take that action? Hon.

Linda Mcintosh (Minister of Education and Training): Mr. Deputy Speaker, the member said that 93 percent of teachers in Transcona had said this. He should be clear and say that 93 percent of the teachers who responded, and only a third of the teachers responded. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mrs. Mcintosh: Can I speak over the yelling? Will it count against me in terms of time? Mr. Deputy Spea ker, in terms of the people who fil ed-school divisions will submit applications for level-[interjection] I will meet with-I always meet with parents.

Parents who ask to meet with me get to meet with me, and if parents ask to meet with me, I would be delighted to meet with them. I do that all the time. That is nothing new. I meet with parents regularly. I met with parents this morning. I met with par ents yesterday. I meet with parents virtually every day and I am pleased to do that. It often helps clarif y for them misperceptions they have been given by the opposition. Mr. Deputy Speaker, school divisions should apply fo r students whom they suspect are Level II or Level III.

They will be given a thorough assessment by the experts in these disorders and if it is ascertained they are Level II students, they receive funding which school divisions should respend on those students. * (14 20) Disaster Assistance Deductible Ms. Rosano Wowchuk (Swan River): Mr. Deputy Speaker, many victims of the spring flood are fac ing hardship in their lives now, and they are also fa cing uncertainty because of this government. They were told there was a possibility that their deductibles would be reduced by the Minister of Government Services, and yesterday we were told by the Premier (Mr.

Filmon) that there would not be a reduction of the deductible on their claims. Can these people get a clear message from this government and start to get their lives in order? Is the deductible going to be reduced below 20 percent or is it going to be held at the 20 percent? Hon. Frank Pitura (Minister of Government Services): Mr. Deputy Speaker, we are all aware ofthe fa ct that many people out in the Red River Valley who have been devastated by the flood are urgently waiting for awards to be sent to them so that they can begin to reconstruct their lives.

I do not think there has been any kind of message that has been given to them in the past or now for the fa ct that the policy we have in place

5336 LEGISLATIVE ASS EMBLY OF MANITOBA June 26, 19 97 �------------�==�� is not the policy we are going to be employing. Certainly some people have taken some comments that were made and tried to read other things into those comments, but we have been very clear, I think, in what we have been saying to the victims about the policy we have, and if we have ever referred to any kind of situation that might arise, it would be the entire program . Mr. Deputy Speaker: Time for Oral Question Period has expired. * * * Hon.

Da rren Praznik (Minister of Health): If I may just indulge the House fo r a moment, I understand, earlier in the day when I was not here, that the member for Kildonan (Mr. Chomia

k) addressed the House and I think very grac iously withdrew his matter of privilege. I just wanted to ackno wledge that. I know in this Chamber many times we banter about, we argue with one another, we make accusa tions. The member brought fo rward an inconsistency in inf ormation from my department that I had put on the record of committee. We discussed how that happened. I think he grac iously withdrew that par ticular motion, and I wanted to acknowledge that today in this House. It is not too often that we have that kind of relationship and I think it is worthy of noting. I thank you. Committee Changes Mr.

George Hickes (Point Douglas): The fo llowing committee change was moved by leave during the June 25, 19 97, 3 p.m. meeting of the Standing Committee on Economic Development. I am now moving the same change in the House so that the official record will be corrected, that the composition of the Standing Committee on Economic Development for Wednesday, June 25, be amended as fo llows: Wellington (Ms. Barrett) fo r Osborne (Ms. McGiffo rd). The following committee change was moved by leave this morning during the June 26, 19 97. 10 a.m. meeting of the Standing Committee on Law Amendments.

I am now moving the same change in this House so that the of ficial record of the House will be correct, that the composition of the Stand ing Committee on La w Amendments be amended as follows: Wellington (Ms. Barrett) for Wolseley (Ms. Friesen). An Honoura ble Member: Happy birthday to you. Mr. Hickes: Thank you. Mr. Deputy Spea ker. I move, seconded by the member fo r Broadway (Mr. Santos), that the composition of the Stand ing Committee on La w Amendm ents be amended as fo llows: Broadway (Mr. Santos) fo r Osborne (Ms. McGiffo rd), for Thursday, June 26, '97, for 3: 15 p. m. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. We can all go celebrate the member for Point Douglas's birthday later. It has been moved by the honou rable member for Point Dougla s (Mr. Hickes), seconded by the member fo r Broadway (Mr. Santos), by leave, during the June 25, 19 97, 3 p.m. meeting ofthe Sta nding Committee on Economic Development. and I am now moving the same chang e in the House so that the of ficial record will be correct. Agreed? An Honourable Member: Agreed. Mr. De puty Speaker: Ag reed and so ordered.

The following committee change was moved by leave this morning during the June 26, 19 97, 10 a.m. meeting of the Standing Committee on Law Amendments. I am now-I do not have to read that. Hold on. I have got this down now. It has been moved by the honourable member for Point Dougla s (Mr. Hickes), seconded by the honou rable member for Broadway (Mr. Santos), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Law Amendments for Thursday, June 26, 19 97, at 10 a.m .: Wellington (Ms. Barrett) fo r Wolseley (Ms. Friesen). It has been moved by the honourable member for Point Dougla s (Mr.

Hickes), seconded by the honourable member for Broadway (Mr. Santos), that - -

June 26, 19 97 LEGISLATIVE ASS EMBLY OF MANITOBA 5337 the composition of the Standing Committee on Law Amendments be amended as follows: Broadway (Mr. Santos) for Osborne (Ms. McGifford), Thursday, June 26, 19 97, at 3: 15 . It has been moved by the honourable member for Point Douglas (Mr. Hickes), seconded by the honourab le member for Broadway (Mr. Santos), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Economic Development for Wednesday, June 25, 19 97, at 3 p. m.: Wellington (Ms. Barrett) for Osborne (Ms. McGifford). Agreed? Agreed and so ordered.

NONPOLITICAL STATEMENTS Ener gy and Environment Calendar Hon. David Newman (Minister of Energy and Mines): Could I have leave to make a nonpolitical statement, Mr. Deputy Spea ker, please? Mr. Deputy Speaker: Does the honourable minister have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed] Mr. Newman: I rise today to congratulate a young lady from Holy Ghost School on Selkirk A venue, Ms. Mhelanni Gorre. Ms. Gorre's artwork was selected to represent Manitoba in the 19 97 Energy and the Environment Cal endar contest.

She is one of 14 talented young artists from across Canada whose artwork is included in the calendar. The title Ms. Gorre chose, "Sa ving the Earth Starts with You," vividly illustrates many small but ef fective choices people can make to save money, energy and the environment. Ms. Gorre's drawing was featured for the month of May. It should be noted that Ms. Gorre's winning artwork was selected from over 300 enthusiastic youngsters that participated in the contest.

The calendar is produced by Natural Resources Canada in co-operation with the provincial and territorial Energy departments and distributed throughout Canada. Copies of the calendar were made available to all honourab le members earlier this year. In Manitoba, approximately 8,000 copies have been distributed to elementary schools, daycare centres and public libraries. Thank you. ORDERS OF THE DAY Committee Chang es Mr.

Edward Helwer (Gimli): The fo llowing committee changes were moved by lea ve during the June 25, 3 p.m. meeting of the Standing Committee on Economic Development, and I am now moving the same changes in the House so that the of ficial record will be correct. I move, seconded by the member for Turtle Mountain (Mr. Tweed), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Economic Development, for Wednesday, June 25 at 3 p.m., be amended as follows: the member for Emerson (Mr. Penner) for the member for Roblin Russell (Mr. Derkach); the member for Gimli (Mr. Helwer) for the member for Ste. Rose (Mr.

Cummings); and the member for Minnedosa (Mr. Gilleshammer) for the member for Fort Garry (Mrs. Vodrey). I move, seconded by the member for Turtle Mountain (Mr. Tweed), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Law Amendments be amended as fo llows: the member for Morris (Mr. Pitura) for the member for Pembina (Mr. Dyck). I move, seconded by the member for Turtle Mountain (Mr. Tweed), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Rules of the House be amended as follows: the member for Brandon West (Mr. McCrae) for the member for Charleswood (Mr. Ernst); the member for Turtle Mountain (Mr.

Tweed) for the member for Gladstone (Mr. Rocan); the member for Riel (Mr. Newman) for the member for La Verendrye (Mr. Sveinson). Motions agr eed to. Concurrence in Reports Hon. James McCrae (Government House Leader ): Mr. Deputy Speaker, with leave of the House, I would move, seconded by the honourable Deputy Premier (Mr. Downey), that the Second Report of the Standing Committee on Privileges and Elections respecting the report of the subcommittee established to review the sections of The Child and Family Services Act

5338 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 26, 19 97 pertaining to the Office of the Children's Advocate, be concurred in. Motion agreed to. * (1 430) Hon. James McCrae (Government House Leader): Mr. Deputy Spea ker, would you be so kind as to call the condolence motion s. Motions of Condolence William Kardash Hon. James Downey (Deputy Premier): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable member for Burrows (Mr.

Martindale), THAT this House convey to the fam ily of the late William Kardash, who served as a member of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, its sincere sympathy in their bereavement and its appreciation of his devotion to duty an d the useful life of active community and public service; and THAT Madam Speaker be requested to forward a copy of this resolution to the fam ily. Motion presented. Mr. Downey: I want to extend to the Kardash fam ily, on behalf of Premier Filmon and my colleagues in our caucus in government, as has been stated in the motion.

I want to add a few additional comments, because I believe that, having read the history of Mr. Kardash in the obituary, he truly was a man who was committed to his cause, coming from a fa rm community to work to better the conditions of those people in the fa rm community through the co-operative movement. I ca n certainly associate with that, that there has always been a struggle to make sure that the values and the inputs of the fa rm people of this country are recognized.

I also want to recognize the fa ct that he was certainly an active participant in the fight for the causes which he believed in and was not af raid to put himself forward in the kinds of actions that were necessary to enf orce his beliefs. I also want to add another note, because I think, if my memory is correct, that during my term in university, I had the opportunity to be on the fundraising committee for the annual yearbook. I believe Mr.

Kardash at that particular time was involved in the Manitoba dairy and poultry co-operati ves, which I had the opportunity to meet and solicit some support from, and I have to say that he was very generous in the receiving of myself and another young student who were out promoting the cause of the yearbook a nd had the opportunity to meet him first-hand. It is not often these kinds of things happen, that I find my self in this situation today in having to introduce and to speak to this. I know the fam ily members were very close to this individual.

It is like an y one of us when we lose a n individual, regard less of the age. It is a loss to that fam ily and it is a loss to the loved ones, and one can fully appr eciate what they are going through. But it is time to give thanks for the contribution of those individuals and to say. without them, we would not have had the kind of country and province that we have had. There was a contribution made which we are all to be thankful for, and so I am pleased, on behalf of my wife and son, to express our sympathy to the fam ily of Mr. Kardash fo r his contribution to the province. Mr.

Doug Ma rtindale (Burrows): It is a plea sure to pay tribute to the late Bill Kardash, former member of the Legislature for Winnipeg North, and I would like to acknowledge the presence in the public gallery of members of his fam ily today. There has been a very lengthy obituary in the Winnipeg Free Press giving a long biographical history of his very interesting life, and I am not going to repeat what is there. I would rather just add to it.

Also, there were many fine speeches at the Labour Temple at the time of the memorial service for Bill Kardash, and I was privileged to be asked to speak on that occasion a s well. As many of us know, Mr. Kardash was a veteran of the Spanish Civil War, and belonged to the Mackenzie Papineau Battal ion. He felt throughout his life that this battal ion of Canadians who fought in the civil war did not receive the recognition and certainly did not receive any benefits from the Can adian government. However, he was fortunate enough to live long enough that there -

June 26, 19 97 LEGISLATIVE ASS EMBLY OF MANITOBA 5339 was a tribute paid to them by the unveiling of a historic plaque, I believe on the grounds of the Ontario Legislature, and he was healthy enough at that time to be able to attend and to speak and was very pleased to be a part of that occasion. I once mentioned the Mackenzie-Papineau Battalion in a speech of mine and sent it to Mr. Kardash, and he was very pleased that I had brought it up in the Legislature. We know that he was a member of the Legislature from Winnipeg North and was elected in 19 41 and re elected in 19 45, 19 49, and 19 53.

He was a member of the Communist Party and unabashedly a Communist. He would make no apology for that. He was proud of his political beliefs and stood by them and def ended them throughout his entire life. I think it must have been parti cularly difficult to defend those beliefs, particularly during the Cold War. I know that he fa ced discrimination. I am sure there were many kinds of discrimina tion that he fac ed, many of which I am not fam iliar with.

However, I did have the opportunity to visit him in his own home, and I visited him many times when he was in the hospital after a stroke, and I would like to share some of the examples that he and his fam ily shared with me. Mr. Kardash once told me that a colleague in the Manitoba Legislature told him about a benefit to which he was entitled as a member of the Legislative Assembly.

It was actual ly the responsibility of the Clerk of the House to tell all members about all their benefits, and he believed that it was pure and simple discrimination on the part of the Clerk of that day that he was not told about that benefit. Some members of the Legislature tried to ignore him, and he coped with this I think in a ra ther creative way. They would not even acknowledge his presence or say hello to him, so when he encountered them, in spite of being ignored, he would give them a cheerful hello and how are you.

In the last election in which he ran, I believe unsuccessfully, it was when the multimember seats had been abolished, and he bel ieved and he spoke many times to me about this, that it was gerrymandering on the part of the government to get rid of him. He was very successful in terms of popula r vote in the multiparty seats but was unsuccessful, I believe, in a single-member seat. I visited Mr. Kardash only once in his home bef ore he had a stroke, and I knew that some day I would probably, if I was still in the Legislature, speak on a condolences motion, so I asked him if he had any regrets.

He said, yes, he did have a regret. He regretted that he spent so much time in the evening and on weekends attending meetings that he neglected his own fam ily, which I think is something that all of us as members here can identify with. However, I know his son, Ted, and I know his daughter, Nancy, and I do not think they share this regret. All I hear from them is a great deal of pride in their fat her and what he stood for and the progressive issues that he fought fo r.

I have often attended the· . seniors club at the Ukrainian Labor Temple and when I first got elected, there were usually four or five tables of seniors sitting in rows and there was always entertai nment, the mandolin orchestra or the choir or both. When I used to attend there six years ago, both Bill and his wife Mary Kardash were there, and they would not sit in the straight rows. They were always circulating and talking to people and asking people about their fam ily and their well-being and their health and always took time to speak to me.

Now when I go to the Labor Temple, whether it is a seniors club or other events, it does seem strange that they are not there and circulating with people. I know they are greatly missed, both by the progressive community of which they were a part and by their fam ily and by me. Thank you. * (14 40) Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I, too, want to rise on the condolence motion for William Kardash and offer our condolences to the many friends of Mr. Kardash and to his direct fam ily, his son, Ted, his daughter, Nancy and his granddaughter Dana.

Truly, it can be said that Mary and Bill were political and social powers in the north end of Winnipeg, people that fought tirelessly for working people and their fam ilies, together, whether it was on the school boards through Mary, or Bill in this Legislature, they fought on

5340 LEGISLATIVE ASSE MBLY OF MANITOBA June 26, 19 97 behalf of people and the poor people every hour of the day. They are remembered with a lot of fondness, respect by people in the north end. I heard it even in this federal election, comments about both of them, and today we pay tribute to William, or Bill, 17 years in this legislative Chamber, which is a long time by any political measure. Certainly, the values of his up bringing and the values of his life are ones that all of us, I believe, respect and honour here today in this condolence motion to his fam ily through this Legislature.

As the Deputy Premier has pointed out, he had a history of starting in fa rming and the co-operative movement in fa rming, the values of co-operation which we believe are so important to western Canadian pro ducers and sti ll remain an important part of our western Canadian prairie culture, each of us working together and banding together for the greater good, for our total producers, rather than going of f as individuals in a kind of Darwinian marketplace. He, of course, as the member fo r Burrows (Mr.

Martindale) has pointed out, was also a person who volun teered to fight the fascists in Spain in the '30s, a person who was ahead of his time in terms of recognizing the danger that fa scism presented to not only Europe directly but also to the free world in the 19 30s. He volunteered in that struggle and was a veteran of that war and came back to Canada to warn people of the dangers of the authoritarian nature of fa scism and the intolerance of fa scism in terms of what it would represent for free people everywhere.

Bill was very involved in the co-operative movement, as the member for Burrows pointed out, in the Ukrainian Canadian organizati ons, whether they were seniors or the other orga nizations. I always found my contacts with Mr. Kardash to be a person who had dign ity, a quiet strength that came through his personality. His strengths and his contributions to the people of the north end and particularly the poor people, for both him and his wife, Mary, are remembered today in the communities he served long after he was a member of this Legislature.

His fight and his struggles on behalf of working people and their fam ilies that he and his wife pa rticipa ted in are remembered and are remembered with great honour and with great respect. That is the greatest testament that all of us can have or give to anybody else, the respect of the people. Bill Kardash had the respect of the people. We are proud to honour his life here today. Thank you very much. Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): I wanted to put a few remarks on the record on an incredible life, an incredible time period in this province.

I want to reflect on a couple of points, and that is the uniqueness of Bill Karda sh's political life and the unique times. This is somebody that volunteered, along with 1, 400 Canadians, to fight against fa scism in Germany and in Spain, fighting against the-I say in Germany, but against the Germans, the Italia ns in the 19 30s tested their brute use of force and terrorism and mass murder on the people of Spain, against the democratically elected government of Spain. Bill lost a leg in that fight.

I remember I was very pleased about a decade ago, when we dealt, even in the 19 80s, with the continuing fight of the Mac- Paps for recognition, a resolution brought in by the member for Inkster. Bill and others reminded people in the 19 80s that despite the fa ct that they fo ught against fascism in the 19 30s, because they were ahead of their time, there was not only virtually no recognition but, for many people, they came back blacklisted, subject to the kind of discrimination that was talked about before. Wha t I fo und particularly fascinating in Mr.

Karda sh's case was the fa ct that he went on a few years later, and it is funny how times chang ed. It would seem remarkable to some today that he served 17 years in this Legislature. When he was first elected in 19 41 times had changed. Soviets were allies. At that period of time we were not into the Cold War psychology that came later. But I think what is even more remarkab le is that he continued his political career representing the north end, the Labour Progressives, the avowed Communists not only during that period but in the post war period.

This was a period when people could be expelled from political parti es, including parties of the left, for doing nothing more than supporting the peace movement because that was seen as being a Communist front. But, when you consider the fa ct that he was an -

June 26, 19 97 LEGISLATIVE AS SEMBLY OF MANITOBA 534 1 avowed Communist and had the courage of his convictions and sat and was re-elected throughout the Cold War, I think that is a testament to his courage but also to the unique diversity of this province. We have had people in this Legislature that range from Social Credit, which, I think, everyone would say is on the far right, and very few people today even remember, outside of the north end, that we also had representation from the left in terms of elected Communists who were also by the way in Winnipeg. In the north end we had Joe Zuken for many years.

For many years this was the only city in North America where you had elected Communists. It is interesting because in the psychology of the Cold War, and it continued later into the '50s and '60s and even '70s and '80s, in some ways, where it was considered the worst epitaph to call someone a Communist. I find it interesting in many countries of the world there are Communists now dem ocratically elected, and this is part of the political culture. One looks at even Spain today. One looks at countries like Greece or Italy or France.

I wanted to comment on that because if there is one thing, I think, that is important for all of us to learn from the life ofBill Kardash and others is, regardless of whether one agrees with somebody else's political philosophy, I think you have to value the courage that he showed. A remarkable life; remarkable times. I do not know if there will ever be the Bill Kardashes again. That kind of courage to volunteer to fight Fascism in the 19 30s in Spain. I do not know how many people of today' s generation would ever have that courage. A lot of people in the 19 30s and 19 40s showed that type of courage.

He, I think, was probab ly the most remarkable example. As I said, a remarkable life; remarkable time. I do not want to just pay tribute for the 17 years in the Legislature because I remember even discussing this the time the Mac-Paps were here. That was simply one

chapter in his life, and he left a legacy of fighting for social and economic justice in the north end. I say to a lot of people, I always get enriched when I go to the north end. I get strengthened because that kind of tradition is still very much in existence. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. * (1 450) Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): welcome the opportunity to put a few words on the record. As a student of history in the province of Manitoba, of political history, the name Bill Kardash certainly had a role to pla y in the political history of our province. I remember having met Mr.

Kardash when I was a university student at a par ticular function and had a chance to speak to him about his time in Spain during that period of the Spanish Civil War, and it was only after I had actually met him that I came to realize that he had served 17 years in this Assembly as a member, I believe, first elected in the days of the I O-m ember Winnipeg constituency and then later, when that was divided into three three-member constituencies, served as the member for, I believe, Winnipeg North as the third member elected on a number of occasions.

His loss to this Legislature, or defeat, I think, came when we went to single-member constituencies. I think it was the CCF or the New Democrats who replaced him in the Burrows constituency at that time. On this side of the House and certainly myself, I do not necessarily agree with many of the political philosophies or positions taken by Mr. Kardash, but I certainly want to acknowledge here today a respect fo r his conviction, a respect for his dedication to what he believed, and I certainly do not want to pass judgment on him in the context of his time.

Because it is very easy, looking back today on that period, to speak about the fa cts, what went on in the Soviet Union and things during this time that were not necessarily common knowledge to many who promoted that particular tum of events. They were very turbulent times, very divided times in terms of philosophy and politics and dogma, in essence, that the division of political philosophy and belief was very, very great and divergent in the world, perhaps a characte ristic of this century.

As we near the end of it and we look back, perhaps one of the charac teristics of the politics of this century will be the great division in political viewpoints and philosophy that determined so much of the history of this century. Mr. Kardash, with his conviction, his sense of purpose, and his experience growing up in the north end and background, led him to travel across the world to fight in the Spanish Civil War, and I apprecia te the comments of the member for Thompson (Mr. Ashton). That was a war many people do not want to talk about,

534 2 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANIT OBA June 26, 19 97 but it was, in some ways, given the involvement of fa scist Italy and fa scist Gennany, somewhat a precursor of what we would become involved in a few short years later in fighting those enemies. It became more than just a battle of political philosophy or government in Spain but really became a testing ground for other arm ies and philosophies that would lead to the World War. Mr. Kardash, like many from Manitoba and from Canada, found a role in that conflict and put his convictions into pract ice in serving in the international brigades.

He returned to Winnipeg and was elected to the Legislature. He, with great conviction, for those who have studied the record, always advanced the causes that he fe lt were important . I have come to appreciate in my brief political career the importance of exchange and dialogue, the importance of hearing other points of view, because I think one of the great results or the great charact eristics of this latter part of the century is that we have modified our political philosophies considerably because we have listened to each side of the spectrum.

We have modified towards the middle, and even though in this Chamber from time to time we get into what appears to be great deba tes of left an d right, the realities compared to the early part of this century is that we are all far more moderate in our beliefs and views than those who have come before us. and perhaps we have learned from that time for the bettennent of our citizenry. It might not make for as interesting politics and it may not make for great philo sophical debates, but I would like to believe it is meant for better government for all in our population. In some ways, Mr.

Kardash's contribution of representing one part of that spectrum in those periods of the debate, like reference to Social Creditors who have sat in this House, Jake Froese, being the last, have contributed to, I think, moving that debate. Because we had debates of broad view, we ultimately as a province moved to, I think, the more moderate position that has served us well over the years. So, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, today we recognize and we pay tribute to a fonn er member of this Assembly and an individual from real ly a very different time, but an individual, nonethe less, who served his province to the best of his ability. I think, as a historian, with his death, it really marks the passing of a period in our history of great turbulence, of great debate, of great activity on the international scene, of great change. As the member for Thompson (Mr. Ashton), I think, so rightly pointed out, this Legislature has always had a history of many points of view.

In fa ct, in the first-the election of 19 36, if I am not mistaken, there were five political parties, five or seven political parties represented in this Chamber, the Communist Party, not with Mr. Kardash, but with Mr. Jim Litterick, represented here all the way to a five-member Social Credit caucus. Con servative caucus, a progressive caucus, a labour caucus, I think an independent labour group, a wide variety of opinion. Manitoba has always been a very diverse pla ce politically. We have always tolerated that diversity, and I think it has strengthened us as a province.

So we say from this side to recognize him and his fam ily, his contribution not only to Manitoba and this Legislature but, certainly, the courage of his convictions in fighting for what he believed. Any indiv idual who does that is worthy of respect, and we of fer that here today. Thank you. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt this motion? Some Honourable Members: Agreed. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Would the honourable members please rise and remain standing to indicate their support for the motion? A moment of silence was observed. Edward McGill Hon. James Downey (Deputy Premier): Mr.

Deputy Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable member for Brandon West (Mr. McCrae), THAT this House convey to the fam ily of the late Edward McGill, who served as a member of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, its sincere sympathy in their bereavement and its appreciation for his devotion to duty and a useful life of active community and public service; and - -

June 26, I9 97 LEGISLATIVE ASS EMBLY OF MANITOBA 5343 THAT Madam Speaker be requested to forward a copy of this resolution to the fam ily. Motion presented. Mr. Downey: Ed McGill was first elected to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba on June 25, I9 69, for the electoral division of Brandon West for the Progressive Con servative Party . He was re-elected in the general elections of June 28, I9 73, and October II , I9 77. He was not a candi date in the November I7 , 19 8I, general election. Mr.

McGill served as Minister of Consumer, Corporate and Internal Services, Minister of Co-op Development, responsible for MTS and Communications, and responsible for the administration of The Manitoba Lotteries Act from October 24, I9 77, to October 20, I9 78; Minister responsible for MTS, Manitoba Forestry Resources Limited and MPIC from October 20, I9 78, to November I5 , I9 79, and as a minister without portfolio from November I5 , I9 79, to November 30, I9 81. (Mr. Peter Dyck, Acting Spea ker, in the Chair) * (1 500) Mr. Acting Speaker, Linda and I were good friends of Ed and Eve McGill and their fam ily.

I can say, as well, that Ed was truly a dedicated Manitoban, Canadian and a man who I held in high esteem. I had the opportunity of serving with Mr. McGill as part of the caucus and as part of the cabinet of Sterling Lyon in the 19 77 to '8 I period. He truly was of tremendous support and assistance. His sage advice and guidance for a young,. rookie politician and minister was an example to follow which I tried to in many ways.

I also want to add that Ed had a distinguished military record with the RCAF and, of course, in continuing on with his public service and the recognition of that, McGill Field was named after Ed in Brandon. I also knew Ed before entering politics as the leader or the head of the Brandon Flying School, where I had the privilege of getting my pilot's licence under the guidance of Ed and the team of pilots that he had at McGill Field, and, again, had the privilege of knowing him through that particular part of my life.

On the lighter side, Ed was sometimes referred to as Mad Dog McGill, as truly reflecting in the opposite way his gentle demeanor and his quiet way in life. Of course, quite often that is the way people try to acknowledge an individual. But it was done with the greatest of respect in referring to Ed in that way. Many community activities, whether it was with the Kin smen, whether it was the many lodges, many activities that Ed participated in, everything was done to the finest with the finest of detail and making sure that everything was done to the exact way that had to be done.

Of course, I am sure that his son and his two daughters and their fam ilies are extremely proud of him and his distinguished career as I am of being a friend and certainly knowing the individual in the way in which I have. So I, Mr. Acting Spea ker, want to extend to all the McGill fa milies, on behalf of my fam ily, sincere condolences. I also want to on behalf of Premier Film on and the members of our caucus, Mr. Acting Speaker, express all our sympathies to the McGill fam ily as well. Thank you. Mr.

Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): I too would like to rise on the condolence motion to honour the life and other contributions to this Legislature and to Manitoba of Ed McGill and to send our words to his fam ily. I know he has three children, Mickey, Douglas and Patricia, and a number of grandchi ldren that he certainly was very proud of. Mr. Acting Speaker, I met Mr. McGill on a couple of occasions in my former career as president of the employee organiza tion. I met him in events in Brandon, and I met him as Minister responsible for the Manitoba Public In surance Corpora tion.

I always found him to be, I guess I could use no other word than "gentleman" to describe how he acted and how our meetings took place. He was a person who was respectful of the role you had as representing the employees. He was thoughtful in terms of what you would present to him. He listened. He would sometimes act on the issues that we would raise in terms of employment in Brandon or employment across the province or other issues that we felt could improve

5344 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 26, 19 97 the public service of the corporation to the people of the province of Manitoba. I always found him very good to deal with, a very, as I say, a really dignified individual. I know in the community of Brandon he is certainly known for his contributions to avia tion, whether it was at the flying schools or the clubs or the airport in Brandon, and I am not sure whether the field is named after him or not, but-it is named after him? Certainly that was my connection when I first saw the name of the field; I thought, Ed McGill.

He always did get a military story or a flying story into his comments even though it may be only two sentences long, because he was kind of a Gary Cooper kind of character in terms of his language. Perhaps all of us could learn about his economy of words when it came to dealing with par ticular issues. I would say that he did not waste words. He did not waste sentences. He just merely was kind, dignified, intelligent, and respectful. I want to pay tribute to his three elected terms here. If I recall correctly, I thought at one point he was the Deputy Premier, when he was minister without portfolio.

I believe he was Deputy Premier of the Lyon government. I am not sure, and it is not in the obituary, but I thought he was. Now, maybe it is not listed because it is not an official title, or-he was not? I thought he was. I thought when he was minister without portfolio he was also Deputy Premier, but I am just going by memory. Members who have served in his caucus would have a much better recollection of that than I would. However, he had a number of cabinet portfolios through the Lyon years, and he obviously had the respect of his constituents.

I know he is well respected by people across all party lines in Brandon and in the Brandon West area of the constituency. I know that there was some controversy about some of the policies about the Lyon government, which, eventually, were dealt with in the '81 election, but I know that people respected Ed McGill throughout the disagreements that they had with the Lyon government, respected his integrity and his strength of characte r. So I just would like to put those words on the record, Mr. Acting Speaker. Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Environment): Mr.

Speaker, I have known the McGill fam ily since I was 16 years of age. Certainly I have known Mr. McGill since that time over the years. Indeed, initially, when I came calling to the McGill household, calling upon Mr. McGill's younger daughter, Patricia, my recollection is that the economy of words referred to by the Leader of the Opposition was certainly one that struck me at that time, leaving me to wonder just in what esteem I was held by the fat her of that par ticular household. Some of the things I have to say about Mr. McGill this afternoon will strike a par ticularly responsive chord with Mr.

McGill's fra ternal associates and my own as well, but these words would also strike a responsive chord for anyone who knew Mr. McGill. Ed McGill was a man who moved quietly and modestly in the sphere of his life without blemish. He fulfilled his duties as a man, a subject, husband, and fa ther. Never ostentatious. he served his fellow citizens without self interest and without courting applause. Ed McGill was respected by all noble-minded people.

He was not the kind of person who would proclaim what he had done, would do or could do, but where there was need, he served with resolve, determination and dedication. Af ter his distinguished life of service to country, province, and community, Ed McGill retired without pretension into the multitude, because all of his good acts were performed not for himself but for the cause of good. Ed McGill was the personifica tion of all of the highest ideals of good citizenship.

Although his life's partner and wif e, Eve, predeceased him a few short years ago, Ed McGill is survived by Mickey, Doug, Pat and Betsy and their fa milies, and we join them in remembering fondly the life and the person of Ed Mc Gill. In so doing, we also of fer them our condolences on his passing. The Acting Speaker (Mr. Dyck): Is it the plea sure of the House to adopt this motion? Some Honoura ble Members: Agreed. The Acting Speaker (Mr. Dyck): Would the honoura ble members please rise and remain standing to indica te their support of the motion. - -

June 26, 19 97 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 5345 A moment of silence was observed. James Cowan Hon. James Downey (Deputy Premier) I move, seconded by the honourable Minister of Culture (Mrs. Vodrey), * (1510 ) THAT this House convey to the fam ily of the late James Cowan, who served as a member of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, its sincere sympathy in their bereavement and its appreciation of his devotion to duty and a useful life of active community and public service; and THAT Madam Speaker be requested to forward a copy of this resolution to the fam ily. Motion presented. Mr. Downey: Mr.

James Cowan, Q.C., el ected to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba on June 16 , 19 58, for the Progressive Conservative Party for the electoral division of Winnipeg Centre. He was re-elected in the general elections of May 14, 19 59, December 14 , 19 62, and June 23, 19 66. He was defeated in the general election of June 25, 19 69. Mr. Acting Spea ker, I would like to say at this particular time it is clearly evident by the obituary of the commitment of Mr.

Cowan not only to his community and a larger part as an elected member of the Legislature, but also in his service in the army, in the Second World War, his continuation and involvement in the legion housing program , plus a life member of the Royal Canadia n Legion. He also was elected as city alderman, helping to direct the City of Winnipeg. So I do not think there is any question, Mr. Acting Speaker, of his commitment to the public and to the general good of his province and his community at large. He, as well, was from a fam ily of pioneer stock, truly involved in many activities in life.

He also, I under stand, was involved in the general insurance business as well as practising law. Mr. Acting Speaker, I think it points out again, as it has been said many times today, the commitment of individuals like James Cowan to spend a portion of their life to work, whether it was to be in a Legislative Assembly, City Council or to put themselves forward in the protection of the freedom of our country. Each and every one of us want to say thank you for that contribution.

So at this particular time I want to extend to, particularly Rose and to any of the Cowan fam ily who are still with us, on behalf of the Premier (Mr. Film on), my collea gues and my fam ily, my sincere condolence to them and say thank you for the life and contribution of Mr. James Cowan. Thank you. Mr. Gar y Doer (Leader of the Opposition): I will say just a few words. The member for Transcona (Mr. Reid) knows Mr. Cowan and the fam ily, and I will leave it to him to make comments about the personal contributions of Mr. Cowan to our community.

I just want to say that we join with the Deputy Premier in the condolence motion here today. We want to honour the life of James Cowan, his contributions to his fellow citizens, to his community, to the people of this province. As the Deputy Premier has noted, Mr. Cowan served, before he was elected, in the armed services. He was elected as an alderma n to City Council in the city of Winnipeg and was elected in '58 through the Roblin years through to '69, elected and re elected a number of times in the Winnipeg Centre constituency.

He obviously had the success of his constituents in mind in his continued re-election. Obviously he was an able representative because he was re-elected on a number of occasions to this Chamber. As the Deputy Premier has also noted, he was a participant in housing projects through the legion and a par ticipa nt with the legion-and he is obviously, reading his history-a person worthy of tremendous respect from his fe llow Manitoba citizens to his contributions to our community, to our province.

He has obviously been part of making this province of Manitoba one of the best pla ces to live, and I, on behalf of our party, want to honour his life and thank him for his great contributions to his fellow Manitoba citizens and Canadian citizens. Thank you very much. Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona): Mr. Acting Spea ker, Uncle Jim, as we aff ectionate ly called him, came to my home many, many times. Uncle Jim and Auntie Rose,

5346 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 26, 19 97 his wife, were close personal friends of my mother-in law. I know the Minister of Highways an d Transportation (Mr. Findlay) had the opportunity to meet my mother-in-law a number years ago in the Toronto airpor t, and they shared many political thoughts during that brief meeting which I am sure, my mother-in-law said, was a memorable event. Uncle Jim and Auntie Rose were personal friends of my mother in- law, my wife and myself. Uncle Jim was a lawyer prior to his being elected to the Manitoba Legislature.

I believe it was in June 1958, when he was first elected. Of course while he was serving as a lawyer, he was appointed to the Queen's Counsel, something which he cherished. It was a very honourable event for him to become a member nam ed to the Queen's Counsel. Uncle Jim, unfortun ately, lost election in June of 19 69, so he served some 11 years in that capacity as MLA representing Winnipeg Centre constituency, and served honourably during those years. Uncle Jim was a generous, caring and gentle individual.

I know that my wife and fam ily members cherish the times that they spent as children, in particular my wife's case, for the years when they went to Delta Beach where Uncle Jim and Auntie Rose had their cabin. Uncle Jim and Auntie Rose had the opportunity on many occasions to invite not only fam ily members but friends to Delta Beach to share their humble summer home and to take

part in the many, many barbecues that they shared together. I know I look back fondly on events where Uncle Jim would invite us, in one par ticular case, to the Winter Club here in the city of Winnipeg when his daughter came to visit him travelling all the way from Irela nd with her fam ily. Uncle Jim gath ered up the fam ily members in the province of Manitoba here and close fam ily friends and rented out the fac ilities at the Winter Club and put on a huge, huge dinner for his daughter and her fam ily that came from Ireland. So we remember that with great fondness for that par ticular occasion.

His daughter, Margaret Gubbins and her children were the ones that we were honouring on that par ticular occasion. I look back too on the days when Uncle Jim used to come down the street where we live now, driving down the street, and you could hear that car coming from some distance away. There was, obviously, some difficulties with the exhaust system undernea th it. It was a 19 70 vintage Dodge Aspen. I can recall going out and talking to Uncle Jim out in the driveway in front of my home and saying to him, it looks like it might be time to send on this par ticular automobile to greener pastures.

Of course, no, he saw that there were still many more years of useful service that could be gained out of this automobile.

In fa ct, when he used to get the odd fender bender or nick, you know, in and abou t the yard, moving into the yard-or he had the great habit of getting out the bucket of yellow house paint, going out and touching up the nicks on the fender with the house paint just to make sure that the rust did not set in, that he could preserve the aut omobile for further use. * (1 520) I know that members opposite-and I think back to not that long ago when we went to the funeral services fo r Uncle Jim that the former premiers of Manitoba, Premier Lyon and Roblin, were at the funeral services recognizing Uncle Jim's contribution not only to the province of Manitoba, but to the Conservative Party of Manitoba.

I note in their conversations and in their eyes, the surprise that Uncle Jim would have friends that were beyond the Conservative Party, but Uncle Jim was a kind, gentle, and caring person and made time for people from all walks of life. He treated everybody fa irly and equally, and for that we are quite thankf ul to have had the opportunity to know him personally and to have him come to our home and to share in our fam ily times together. (Mr.

Marcel Laurendeau, Deputy Spea ker, in the Chair) So on behalf of my fam ily and my colleagues, we would like to extend to Uncle Jim and to Auntie Rose, who is now in, I think, Central Park Lodge-she has Alz heimer's and is unaware of events that are tra nspiring around her, but I know our thoughts are with her as well. We extend our sincere condolences to Auntie Rose and to the rest of the Cowan fam ily members, and we wish them well. Thank you. Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Highways and Transportation): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I will just put -

- June 26, 19 97 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 5347 a few comments. I may be moved because of what the member for Transcona (Mr. Reid) has just said, but I have to reflect on other events of this week in sort of extending condolences to the Cowan family, because Mr. Cowan obviously served in the Duff Roblin government and was part of the government that put the flood way in place that just saved the city of Winnipeg one more time. I think it is important that we pay recognition to people that contributed in that period of time to that great decision that the Duff Roblin government made. Mr.

Cowan was part of it and, indeed, on behalf of myself and the citizens of Manitoba that live east of Winnipe g, I respect the decision he made in terms of protecting citizens from future floods that we have just encountered again. With those few words, I extend my condolences to the Cowan family for what he has done in that great period of time of decision making in the Duff Roblin government in the 19 60s. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt this motion? Some Honoura ble Members: Agreed. Mr.

Deputy Speaker: Would honourable members please rise and remain standing to indicate their support for the motion. A moment of silence was observed. James Thomas Mills Hon. James Downey (Deputy Premier): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Highways and Transportation (Mr.

Findlay), THAT this House convey to the family of the late James Mills, who served as a member of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, its sincere sympathy in their bereavement and its appreciation of his devotion to duty in a useful life of active community and public service; and THAT Madam Speaker be requested to forward a copy of this resolution to the family. Motion presented. Mr. Downey: Mr. James Thomas Mills, or more commonly referred to, as it reads in the obituary, as Jim, Mr.

Mills was elected to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba on December 14, 19 62, for the Progre ssive Con servative Party for the electoral division of Kildonan. He was defeated in the general election of June 23, 19 66. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I want to as well extend, on behalf of the Premier (Mr. Filmon) and my colleagues, to the family of Mr. Mills, our sincere sympathy. I can say by reading the obituary, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, that I guess I should reflect at the last-when was it?-Jim or James, this is a Jim or a James-I have quite a bit in common with that name and, reflecting on the obituary, can clearly get a feel for the kind of individual that Mr. Mills truly was. Truly a family person, he excelled in everything he did. I think it is also impor tant to point out, and this is true, certainly not necessarily a necessity but an asset in the career which Mr. Mills was involved, he truly loved people.

I think that has to be part of not only-it is not essential-but it is certainly an important asset to have in the role that he played not only as a member of the Legislative Assembly, but also holding positions as a city councillor and also involved in the greater Winnipeg election committee, as well as a member of the other activities in this community such as Rotary, the Knights of Columbus, Toastmasters International, which I can associate with, the Progre ssive Con servative Association of Manitoba and the Winnipeg executives.

Truly a busy person, also a very active business person not only in his years in business in Manitoba, but when considered moving out west to retire, he did not retire. He continued on to carry out business activities and further fulfilling his ambitions in life. I think it is also important to note, Mr. Deputy Speaker, the reference to "Papa Jim" made it easy for a lot of people to associate with him. Again, his ambition and his hard work truly, I think, is again reflected in the comments that are made in the obituary, that to follow his lead was to help to make the world a happier place.

So I want to extend to the family of Mr. Jim Mills the

5348 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 26, 19 97 condolences from myself, my family, and all the members of our party and of this House. Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): I, too, want to forward our condolences to the Miils family, his wife, Eleanor, his children and his 13 grandchildren, and pay tribute to his contributions to this Legislature and to the people of this province. He sounds like a person who would be a very interesting individual to spend time with.

Obviously, a person who loved to sing, who loved to be with people, who passed on words to all of us: Do not despair, we want to all leave this life, leave our communities in a happier condition than when we first came to them. He sounds like a person that lived life to the full in terms of his community contributions and his personal successes. His personal successes obviously start with his family. Thirteen grandchildren is a tremendous success by anybody's definition in terms of the ability to have a continuance of the family and contribute to the happiness of so many other people.

He also was very successful in business, it appears to me by reading his history. It looked like wherever he would start something, he would succeed and succeed well, whether it was here or Victoria or in the winter place in terms of where he spent time with Eleanor. * (1 530) He certainly was elected-1 believe part of his constituency would be now in the constituency of Concordia. It was called then the Kildonan riding. It was East Kildonan.

I am sure he would have been very happy to see probably the seniors at the Morse Place Community Centre, that probably was in his riding, where Manitoba Seniors Day was being celebrated, and song and dance was the order of the day for people in that community. It sounds pretty consistent with his love of life. Certainly he had the respect of his fellow citizens. He was elected to the City Council, and that always meant, in my view, that you were close to the people, close to the grassroots, because councillors are always elected on their connection to the people. They are not elected on party banners.

They are elected on their contacts with the people in the area. He was elected to this Legislature in '62, and would have participated in some of the debates, the early debates, about dealing with the reports dealing with the Winnipeg flood and the recommendations on the floodway and the Shellmouth Dam and the Assini boine diversion.

Obviously, those of us who live in the east side of the city, those of us that are closer to the river, would appreciate the decisions he made with his other colleagues in the Roblin government in those periods of times and, of course, laid the groundwork for the Shellmouth Dam that followed in the Schreyer years in the '70s. I again want to pay tribute to his life and honour his contributions to this Legislature and to the people of Manitoba. Thank you. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt this motion? Some Honourable Members: Agreed. Mr.

Deputy Speaker: Would honourable members please rise and remain standing to indicate their support for the motion. A moment of silence was observed. House Business Hon. James Downey (Deputy Premier): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I would ask that you call the bills that are on the Order Paper-1 believe was the agreement of the House-<:alling the bills for the debate, continue third readings as they appear on the Order Paper. I am just getting some signals from above. Bear with me, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I will yield the floor to the House leader who has been in discussion with opposition. Hon.

James McCrae (Government House Leader) : Mr. Deputy Speaker, would you be so kind as to call the motion standing in my name on page 5. Last day, this matter stood in the name of the honourable member for Thompson (Mr. Ashton). I believe there will not be leave to allow that to stand in his name any further and that the honourable member for St. Johns (Mr. Mackintosh) has something to contribute. -

June 26, 19 97 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 5349 DEBATE ON GOVERNMENT MOTION Mr. Deputy Speaker: On the proposed motion of the honourable government House leader (Mr. McCrae) THAT, in the case of all bills referred to committees of this House during the present session-dispense. and proceeding to enactment, Legislative Counsel be given the authority to take the fo llowing steps at any point befo re publication of the Act: (

a) change all

section nu mbers and internal ref erences necessary to give effe ct to amendments to bills adopted by this House and its committees; and (

b) make editorial changes in bills that in no way alter the intended legal meaning but are necessary to correct errors in spelling, nu mbering, cr oss-ref erencing and capitalization, and to correct punctuation and fo rmatting that is not consistent with Manitoba style. THAT the Legislative Counsel be required to mark all changes made pursuant to this authority in red ink in the aff ected blue bills as soon as possible aft er the end of the Session. Standing in the name of the honourable member for Thompson (Mr. Ashton). Is there leave that this matter remain standing? An Honourable Member: No. Mr.

Deputy Speaker: No? Leave has been denied. Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I move, seconded by the member for Crescentwood (Mr. Sale), THAT the motion regarding minor corrections to bills by Legislative Counsel be amended by striking out Clause (

b) and substituting the following: (

b) without in any way altering the intended legal meaning make minor changes to bills to correct obvious errors like spelling, numbering, cross-referencing and capitalization errors, and to correct punctuation and formatting that is not consistent with Manitoba style. Motion presented. Mr. Mackintosh: This clearly is an unusual motion, and I am not even sure whether one can change a bill without changing a bill specifically. I really have doubts as to whether this is effective or not.

But with regard to the intent, it is a housekeeping intent, so our amendment really is addressed at our concern about the words "make editorial changes." The words "editorial changes" could have different meanings to different people, although it would appear that it is limited by the description of the kinds of changes later in the paragraph. Just to be absolutely certain, given the unusual nature of this motion, the amendment was moved. Hon. James McCrae (Government House Leader): Mr.

Deputy Speaker, on the amendment, it is my understanding that routinely at the end of consideration of bills in committees, Legislative Counsel prepares for the minis ter responsible for the bill a motion to allow for renumbering to take account of the various amendments that get passed and a motion similar to what we are talking about here. What this does is allows that process to go forward up until the time of publication of the bills. Our Legislative Counsel is an extremely competent person, and the people in her office indeed are competent and an office Manitobans ought to be proud of.

I certainly can see the concern expressed by the honourable member for St. Johns, and read ily would agree with his amendment this afternoon to make it clear what our intent is, not to allow unelected persons working in the Legislative Counsel office to be making changes that are not in line with the spirit and intent of the Legislature of the province.

So with those words and with our agr eement to the amendment put forward by the honourable member, I believe from an administrative and workload standpoint, this will help facilitate the publication of legislation in our province that could probably be described, certainly since the project of bringing our legislation into line with Supreme Court rulings and modem day usage, probably amongst the best body of statutes anywhere in Canada. So I am proud of that, and as a former Attorney General I was pleased to take

5350 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 26, 19 97

part in the process, but I also am glad to see the co operation shown here today. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Amendment-pass. Is it the will of the House to adopt the motion as amended? Agreed? Some Honoura ble Members: Agreed. have to question why we just do not rename the bill and pass the whole thing at once. I was particularly struck by the number of simple spelling mistakes that seem to have plagued this particular piece of legislation. With those few words, Mr. Deputy Speaker, we do not have any problem with this bill passing. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Is it the will of the House to Mr.

Deputy Speaker: Agreed and so ordered. adopt the motion? Mr. McCrae: Mr. Deputy Speaker, if we could move Some Honourable Members: Agreed. now to third reading debate on bills. Would you begin calling the bills as we left off earlier today with No. 24. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Agreed and so ordered. THIRD READINGS Bill 24- The Personal Property Security Amendment and Various Acts Amendment Act Hon. James McCrae (Government House Leader): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Minister of Culture, Heritage and Citizenship (Mrs.

Vodrey), that Bill 24, The Personal Property Security Amendment and Various Acts Amendments Act (Loi modifiant Ia

Loi sur les suretes relatives aux biens personnels et d'autres dispositions legislatives), be now read a third time and passed. Motion presented. * (1 540) Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Mr. Deputy Speaker, to put a few words with respect to Bi ll 24 on the record, we were somewhat taken aback by the government's passing of amendments to a bill that has yet to be proclaimed by the government, as the member for Elmwood (Mr. Maloway) had mentioned in second reading.

This revelation was made by the member for Elmwood, as I indicated, and it is interesting that his comments-and I think he is correct in pointing out what probably is a first in terms of a government action. That said, having had the opportunity to go over the text of this bill, we find there are no great problems with it. I would remind the government that in the future if they want to pass amendments to legislation, they should proclaim the legislation first. Otherwise, I Bill 25-- The Proceeds of Crime Registration Act Hon. James McCrae (Government House Leader): Mr.

Deputy Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Minister of Highways and Transportation (Mr. Findlay), that Bill 25, The Proceeds of Crime Registration Act (Loi sur les enregistrements relatifs aux produits de Ia crimin alite), be now read a third time and passed. Motion presented. Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St.

Johns): We are prepared to see this legislation passed, but we want to again remind the government it is impor tant that they put in place the administrative framework to ensure that they know when orders are made by the court which will allow for the registration of an order under this legislation both at the provincial level and at the federal level. It is my understanding from the questioning in comm ittee that the government had not turned its attention to how it will actually use and enforce this legislation. Thank you. Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Mr.

Deputy Speaker, again to put a few words, this is legislation that is in fact long in coming. Those who commit criminal activities should not benefit from the crimes in any way. This legislation prevents a criminal from disposing of property that was otherwise obtained from the proceeds of crime. It definitely assists our Crowns. The Liberal Party has long adopted this view, and this -

June 26, 19 97 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 535 1 legislation has come about because of a new

section of the Criminal Code enacted by the federal government. This act will extend the striking distance of the long arm of the law, if you like. It will, I hope, cause some difficulty for drug dealers and the like who make their money from the misery of others, and their life a little bit more difficult in terms of receiving proceeds from crime. Thank you. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Is it the will of the House to adopt the motion? Some Honourable Members: Agreed. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Agreed and so ordered. Bill 26- The Corporations Amendment Act Hon.

James McCrae (Government House Leader): I move, seconded by the honourable Minister of Culture, Her itage and Citizenship (Mrs. Vodrey), that Bi ll 26, The Corporations Amendment Act (Loi modifiant Ia

Loi sur les corpora tions), be now read a third time and passed. Motion presented. Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): We recognize that this bill is dealing with the federal superintendent of trust and loan, dealing with authorized investments, conflict of interest guidelines and filing of reports, and this bill allows us to conform with Canada-wide practices. We will support this bill at third reading. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Is it the

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Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	36-3-68b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	36th 3rd hansardpdf 68b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	857e097dfb98b36fe1f23533820ff4d04eefd8ec

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