Manitoba Hansard — 26 April 2023 (Sitting 48, 42nd Legislature, 5th Session)

42-5-48

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Fifth Session – Forty-Second Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Myrna Driedger Speaker Vol. LXXVII No. 48 - 1:30 p.m., Wednesday, April 26, 2023 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-Second Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALTOMARE, Nello Transcona NDP ASAGWARA, Uzoma Union Station NDP BRAR, Diljeet Burrows NDP BUSHIE, Ian Keewatinook NDP CLARKE, Eileen, Hon. Agassiz PC COX, Cathy Kildonan-River East PC CULLEN, Cliff, Hon. Spruce Woods PC DRIEDGER, Myrna, Hon. Roblin PC EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne, Hon. Lac du Bonnet PC FONTAINE, Nahanni St. Johns NDP GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin, Hon. Steinbach PC GORDON, Audrey, Hon. Southdale PC GUENTER, Josh Borderland PC GUILLEMARD, Sarah, Hon.

Fort Richmond PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC ISLEIFSON, Len Brandon East PC JOHNSON, Derek, Hon. Interlake-Gimli PC JOHNSTON, Scott, Hon. Assiniboia PC KHAN, Obby, Hon. Fort Whyte PC KINEW, Wab Fort Rouge NDP KLEIN, Kevin E., Hon. Kirkfield Park PC LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAGIMODIERE, Alan Selkirk PC LAMONT, Dougald St. Boniface Lib. LAMOUREUX, Cindy Tyndall Park Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas-Kameesak NDP LINDSEY, Tom Flin Flon NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Malaya Notre Dame NDP MARTIN, Shannon McPhillips PC MICHALESKI, Brad Dauphin PC MICKLEFIELD, Andrew Rossmere PC MORLEY-LECOMTE, Janice, Hon.

Seine River PC MOSES, Jamie St. Vital NDP NAYLOR, Lisa Wolseley NDP NESBITT, Greg, Hon. Riding Mountain PC PEDERSEN, Blaine Midland PC PIWNIUK, Doyle, Hon. Turtle Mountain PC REDHEAD, Eric Thompson NDP REYES, Jon, Hon. Waverley PC SALA, Adrien St. James NDP SANDHU, Mintu The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron Springfield-Ritchot PC SMITH, Andrew, Hon. Lagimodière PC SMITH, Bernadette Point Douglas NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Vérendrye PC SQUIRES, Rochelle, Hon. Riel PC STEFANSON, Heather, Hon. Tuxedo PC TEITSMA, James, Hon. Radisson PC WASYLIW, Mark Fort Garry NDP WHARTON, Jeff, Hon.

Red River North PC WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC Vacant Morden-Winkler

1897 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, April 26, 2023 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Madam Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee to frame such laws as may tend to the welfare and prosperity of our province. Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may seek it with wisdom and know it with certainty and accomplish it perfectly for the glory and honour of Thy name and for the welfare of all our people. Amen.

We acknowledge we are gathered on Treaty 1 territory and that Manitoba is located on the treaty territories and ancestral lands of the Anishinaabeg, Anishininewuk, Dakota Oyate, Denesuline and Nehethowuk nations. We acknowledge Manitoba is located on the Homeland of the Red River Métis. We acknowledge northern Manitoba includes lands that were and are the ancestral lands of the Inuit. We respect the spirit and intent of treaties and treaty making and remain committed to working in partnership with First Nations, Inuit and Métis people Good afternoon, everybody. Please be seated.

MATTER OF PRIVILEGE MLA Uzoma Asagwara (Union Station): Yes, Madam Speaker, I rise on a matter of privilege. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Union Station, on a matter of privilege. MLA Asagwara: The prima facie case is simple. While all MLAs enjoy the freedom speech, as many speakers such as Parent and Fraser have noted, they must do so with great care.

In discussing the limits of freedom of speech, spare–Speaker Parent noted that suggestive language or innuendo with regard to individuals or an in- dividual's association with others can provoke an angry response which inevitably leads the House into disorder, as a specific limit. This is even more pronounced when the words made in this House concern another member. These words interfere with and prevent MLAs from doing their job, and as such, a matter–result in a breach of privilege. Yesterday, the Minister of Education stood in the House and said to the Leader of the Official Opposition (Mr.

Kinew), and I quote: "Seems to stand in this House on a day -to-day basis, pretending to be some kind of actor. He's no Adam Beach." End quote. The comment was made on the record while the member had the floor. It is present in Hansard, as well as audible and visible in the recordings of the proceed- ings of the House shared publicly. It's a deeply disrespectful and demeaning remark regarding the Leader of the Official Op position. It is an insult, which in itself is a violation of privilege. It is a breach of privilege in an additional sense as well.

This comment would not have been made about a non-Indigenous member of this House. What's more, it would not be tolerated in another work place. The only basis for the comparison is the race of the Leader of the Official Opposition. The Leader of the Official Op position is being singled out on the basis of his race. It is a disrespectful comment with a racial characteristic. It's outrageous the minister has not apologized for it. It's meant to 'disminish' and insult an Indigenous member of our Chamber.

It was meant to pretend that there are two sorts of Indigenous people in our province: the so- called good ones and so-called bad ones. Madam Speaker, I need to pause here to make a clear point. The idea that there are good Indigenous people and bad Indigenous people in our province, and that the minister can decide who they are and then hurl abuse at one group is an awful thought and should never be expressed in this Chamber. It is an insidious comparison that tries to use a fact –use the fact a member of this Chamber is Indigenous to undermine the content of the words that they say.

The MLA who made this remark, incred ibly, is charged–is in charge of the provincial education system and has a duty to advance efforts aimed at reconciliation. Comparisons that try to divide a community in this way, Madam Speaker, are gross. This interferes in the performance of parliamentary functions. The disrespect- ful comment with racial characteristics unduly in - fluences the performance of parliamentary functions of not just the Leader of the Official Op position, but

1898 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2023 potentially other members who are Black, Indigenous or people of colour –as we know, BIPOC –including myself as well. Because it calls to mind our own experiences with racism. The influence these comments could have are chilling on the effect of participation in question period, debate or even attending this Chamber in person. This influence is undue because it singles out the Leader of the Official Op position (Mr. Kinew) in a way that other members who are non- Indigenous do not have to contend with.

Comments of that nature are a detri- ment to all members of th is House, and all members should be aligned in knowing these types of com - ments have no place in any space anywhere. Race, including indigeneity, is a protected character- istic under the Manitoba charts –Manitoba Human Rights Code, rather. If the minister will not apologize, then the Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) and yourself as Speaker should take action. I raise this at the first op portunity, as I took the time to consult the relevant author ity and to review Hansard.

I move, seconded by the MLA for Point Douglas, that the House call on the Minister of Edu cation to apologize imme diately, and to fully and uncondi - tionally retract his remarks. Thank you. Hon. Wayne Ewasko (Minister of Education and Early Childhood Learning): Just on this matter of privilege, Madam Speaker, I was just looking back into Hansard to make sure that what the member opposite is saying is accurate.

I'm not denying, Madam Speaker, that, in fact, in Hansard, that it said that I was actually pointing to the member for–the Opposition Leader and said that on a day-to-day basis he pretends to be some kind of actor, he's no Adam Beach. I did say that, Madam Speaker, because Adam Beach is a well-known Indigenous famous actor right here in this great province of ours. When it come s to the member from Fort Rouge, he does stand on a day- to-day basis, and I was pointing out the fact that he's not a great actor, like Adam Beach. I could've used multiple other actors. Yes, I used an Indigenous one, Madam Speaker.

I did not in any way, shape or form mean to intimidate the Leader of the Opposition or talk down to his Indigenous culture. I could've used multiple different actors, famous actors, and compared the member for Fort Rouge to those actors of that fact that he stands in this Ho use; Manitobans see through his actorship that he puts on display each and every day. So, I guess, Madam Speaker, I will apologize for using Adam Beach's name, and referencing the Leader of the Opposition, tying him to Adam Beach.

I've met Adam Beach on multiple occasions at South Beach Casino because–ties in there with Brokenhead First Nation at times, and the Adam Beach film studio. I have–I hold Adam Beach in high regard, Madam Speaker. And the Leader of the Op position is no Adam Beach. * (13:40) I could have used other actors. I could have said Denzel Washington, but then the member would have got up, hammered me on that. I could have used Jim Carrey, Madam Speaker, but the member would have got up and hammered me on that. But you know what, actually, Jim Carrey, he does have a film called –a 1997 film called Liar Liar.

Now, that being said, I could have compared the member to Jim Carrey. But, Madam Speaker, on this matter of privilege, there was no ill intent meant. Just pointing out the fact that the Leader of the Opposition is not a great actor, and Manitobans are seeing it displayed here today as well, as the member for Union Station (MLA Asagwara) stands up and tries to smear me. Thank you.

Madam Speaker: Before recog nizing any other members to speak, I would remind the House that remarks at this time by hon ourable members are limited to strictly relevant comments about whether the alleged matter of privilege has been raised at the earliest opportunity and whether a prima facie cas e has been established. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Yes, Madam Speaker, this Legislative Chamber is a really im por- tant venue for debating ideas and policy and the future of this province, what's happening in the province.

But we have gone far too far in the last few weeks and months in making personal attacks on people. And I think that the –what you, as Speaker, need to remind people is that we're not here to denigrate others in this Chamber, to try and cut them down, to try and imply–particularly when there are racial overtones–to try and make implications that somebody is less than somebody else. I think that we need to stand up against the personal attacks, and this needs to be much more vigorous than it has been in–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order.

April 26, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1899 Mr. Gerrard: –the last few weeks and months. And this is an example. It's really the tip of the iceberg in terms of what's happening at the moment. And we need to dig deeper and look at the whole picture, and we need to be very careful. And I think that the member, the Minister of Education, may not have meant to say something that was offensive, but in trying to cut the Leader of the Opposition down, he has done so. And it's really important that–because the metre– the Minister of Education should be providing a role model for students.

The really vital thing that we have to remember, as we're debating here, is that we need to be examples for young people growing up, because we want young people in this province to have a really good future. And we need to have, in parti cular, a minister of Education who can stand as an example of behaviour to all Manitobans, but parti cularly to all young people. Thank you. Madam Speaker: I would indicate that a matter of privilege is a very serious concern.

And I would also indicate as the Minister of Education did not provide an unqualified apology, I am going to have to take this under advise ment to consult the authorities, and I will return to the House with a ruling. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS Madam Speaker: Introduction of bills? COMMITTEE REPORTS Standing Committee on Justice First Report Mr. Ron Schuler (Chairperson): Madam Speaker, I wish to present the first report of the Standing Committee on Justice. Clerk (Ms. Patricia Chaychuk): Your standing com- mittee on Justice– An Honourable Member: Dispense. Madam Speaker: Dispense.

Your Standing Committee on Justice presents the following as its First Report. Meetings Your Committee met on April 25, 2023, at 6:00 p.m. in Room 255 of the Legislative Building. Matters under Consideration • Bill (No. 6) – The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la Société d'assurance publique du Manitoba • Bill (No. 12) – The Minor Ame ndments and Corrections Act, 2023 / Loi corrective de 2023 • Bill (No. 15) – The Court of King's Bench Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la Cour du Banc du Roi • Bill (No. 18) – The Legislativ e Security Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la sécurité de la Cité législative • Bill (No. 19) – The Provincial Offences Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les infractions provinciales Committee Membership • Hon. Mr. G OERTZEN • Mr. HELWER • Mr. SANDHU • Mr. SCHULER • Hon. Mr. SMITH (Lagimodière) • Mr. WIEBE Your Committee elected Mr. SCHULER as the Chairperson. Your Committee elected Mr. HELWER as the Vice - Chairperson. Public Presentations Your Committee heard the following pre sentation on Bill (No. 19) – The Provincial Offences Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les infractions provinciales: David Grant, Private citizen Bills Considered and Reported • Bill (No. 6) – The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la Société d'assurance publique du Manitoba Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. • Bill (No. 12) – The Minor Amendments and Corrections Act, 2023 / Loi corrective de 2023 Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment.

1900 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2023 • Bill (No. 15) – The Court of King's Bench Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la Cour du Banc du Roi Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. • Bill (No. 18) – The Legislative Security Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la sécurité de la Cité législative Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. • Bill (No. 19) – The Provincial Offences Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les infractions provinciales Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. Mr. Schuler: Madam Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable member for Dauphin (Mr. Michaleski), that the report of the committee be received. Motion agreed to. TABLING OF REPORTS Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, I'm pleased to table the 2023 report on the repeal of acts not in force required under

part 6.2 of The Statutes and Regulations Act. Madam Speaker: And, in accordance with

section 28 of The Auditor General Act, I am tabling the Auditor General's report titled Manitoba's Rollout of the COVID-19 Vaccines, dated April 2023. Ministerial statements? MEMBERS' STATEMENTS George Wong Hon. Andrew Smith (Minister of Municipal Relations): Madam Speaker, I rise today to recognize a Lagimodière constituent who has been both a notable role model and professional community leader with significant achievements that have contributed to the community. George Wong began to serve his community by volunteering as an interpreter and translator at the international centre in Winnipeg.

He would the n further his work for the community by co -founding both the Association of Foreign Medical Graduates of Manitoba and the Burmese Community Organization of Manitoba, organizations that assist immigrants in establishing their lives here in our province. He assisted newcomers in Manitoba as president of the Immigrant and Refugee Community Organization of Manitoba, where he oversaw the funding and construction of 67 settlement house units in Winnipeg.

Some of the most notable groups that this organ- ization's units helped settle was the first group of Polish refugees our province received during the era of the Eastern bloc disintegration, as well as the first group of Kurdish refugees who came here during the first Iraqi war. He has also remained very active in regards to our arts and cultural com munities, being part of the Winnipeg Downtown BIZ Chinatown banner jury panel, as well as lending his time as a board member for both Folklorama and the Folk Arts Council of Winnipeg.

George is also a successful l ocal businessman, a multilingual certified management consultant. He has successfully assisted local businesses as well as promote the management consulting profession both here and abroad. In fact, his work in the field earned him an induc- tion of life membership by the Canadian Association of Management Consultants and the distinction of being the first and only visible minority awarded to this honour, Madam Speaker. He also spent a number of years sitting as a council member, the Seven Oaks Hospital Foundation.

He is a person who's always wishes to do what he can to help make our community stronger and better. Please join me in recognizing our special guests: George Wong, his wife Dr. Eng Lyan Chan, his brother James Wong, his brother -in-law Kyaw Th an and his nephew Nicklaus Than. Workplace Safety for Health Staff MLA Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): Nurses are a critical part of our health -care system. The last few years have been incredibly difficult for nurses with a pandemic, critical staffing shortages, mandatory over- time, no contract, the list goes on and on. And through it all, nurses showed up.

You know who hasn't showed up? The Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) and her Health Minister. They're too busy sitting around imaginary tables.

April 26, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1901 I've had so many nurses reach out directly, sharing that they don't feel safe walking to and from their vehicles. Nurses have shared pictures with me– [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. MLA Fontaine: –of their broken–vehicles that have been broken into, windows sma shed, and just last week, feces was spread on the door handle of a nurse's car. Last July, we heard of a nurse whose car and credit cards were stolen while she was at work helping Manitobans. The Premier (Mrs.

Stefanson) and Health Minister have failed to take any actions to help solve this safety issue. In 2019, the government promised to implement institutional safety officers at hospitals. Four years later, still nothing. The government's own report found that over half of Manitoba health- care workers are considering quitting and 67 per cent of nurses are con sidering to quit as well. That is a shameful testament to how badly these individuals have made our health-care system. * (13:50) Our health-care system cannot afford another four years of this incompetent and callous PC government.

It's time for a change, Madam Speaker. And to all Manitoba nurses and to those working on the front lines, I am so sorry that you do not have a government that is there to protect and stand up for you. Please know that our NDP team sees you, and we stand with you. Miigwech. Madam Speaker: Further members' statements? Carla Martinelli-Irvine Hon. Kevin E. Klein (Minister of Environment and Climate): I'm proud to rise today and recognize the exceptional work of Carla Martinelli- Irvine, the founder and executive director of the Winnipeg Pet Rescue Shelter, Manitoba's first registered charity no-kill shelter.

Since its exception in June of 1999, the Winnipeg Pet Rescue Shelter has been providing a safe and caring home for thousands of abandoned, abused and neglected animals. Under Carla's leadership, the shelter has become a beacon of hope for animals in need, providing a safe place, food, medical care and love to the many pets left behind. Through her work, Carla has also inspired many in our community, encouraging all of us to do our

part in protecting and caring for animals–trying to get me to take a third dog. Her passion for animal welfare has been contagious, and her leadership has resulted in the Winnipeg Pet Rescue Shelter becoming a true com - munity hub for animal lovers. Thousands of volunteers throughout the years have supported the shelter. Currently, they have over 40 volunteers, some of which have been serving as volunteers for over 10 years. Now at their new location in the Courts of St.

James, the shelter has many seniors who pay visits and spend time with these loving animals, which is a moment of joy for both the seniors and the pets that are looking for a new home. The Winnipeg rescue shelter is 100 per cent donor funded, and they are grateful to the community that has supported them for all these years. Their most significant fundraiser is the Paws for Life Gala.

In recognition of Carla Martinelli -Irvine's out - standing contributions to a nimal welfare, I ask all members of this House to join me in thanking her and her guests, Christina [phonetic] Richard, Marie France-Reid, Karen Erhardt, Paula Paunchard [phonetic] and Kelly Ryback for their commitment to creating a better world for anim als and making our com munity better every day. Thank you. St. Vital Provincial Sport Champions Mr. Jamie Moses (St. Vital): Simply put, Madam Speaker, St. Vital is full of champions.

First, I would like to recognize the Lancers, whose junior varsity girls' basketball team became provincial champions on March 14th by beating Maples Collegiate 74-67. The team's amazing championship effort was powered by all -star Emilie McLean and remarkably talented MVP Taylor Schepp, who scored 54 points, leading the team to victory. Six days later, the varsity girls' basketball team won the provincial championship and successfully brought back a banner to the gym again, defending their provincial AAAA championship from last year.

The team, led by all-stars Daria Rom, Izzi Fust and MVP Kyu Fust, defeated the Garden City Gophers 63-forty– 67-43. Along with the championship, I must also note the amazing accomplishment of the varsity girls' team

1902 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2023 who has not lost a single game on a Manitoba court in more than two years. Also joining us in the gallery today is the Dakota boys track team, whose outstanding athletics won the 2021-22 provincial championships in both indoor and outdoor track. The Lancer track and field coaches, Mikhail Gerylo, Ryan Hudson and Mark Rowland , have incredibly built up their team by focusing on participation, individual development and creating a welcoming space where young athletes know that there is a spot for them. But Madam Speaker, there's even more.

This year's Glenlawn Collegiate Lions junior varsity volleyball team were on top of the province as well. Last December, they won the AAAA boys provincial title after winning a four -set match. The grouping of incredible young athletes, including all -stars Nico Nadeau, Augustine Okose and MVP Ben Doan, were motivated to learn, train to become the best they can be in their sport. Madam Speaker, I ask all of us to join in celebrating the athletes in the gallery today from Glenlawn and Dakota Collegiate. And I celebrate your hard work. Congratulations.

Since there are so many champions and the number is over 50, I'm going to ask for leave to include all the names of the athletes and coaches in Hansard.

Madam Speaker: Is there leave to include all of those names in Hansard? [Agreed] Dakota Collegiate Student Athletes: Abby Akinbolaji, Steven Akintokun, Avery Anderson, Shae Anderson, Whitney Ashu, Adbeel Bhatti, Carmen Buck, Jordyn Buhr, Kalesha Campbell, Sylvain Carriere, Cheryl Cheung, Payton Cretkovic, Tyrell Davis, Izzi Fust, Kyu Fust, A dam Grieman, Dayne Jernbern, Brinley Lokstet, Faith Larocque, Hope Larocque, Emilie McLean, Chinonso Njelita, Chisom Njelita, Tolu Ogunsolu, Ava Osato, Darya Rom, Taylor Schepp, Anna Sellers, Abby Sweeny, Juliana Tingchuy, Marcus Wahl.

Dakota Collegiate Co aching Staff: Ray Agostino, Mitch Catacutan, Paul Fust, Tiffany Hiebert, Mike Gerylo, Bolaji Rowland, Kukhanya Sibanda, Emma Thompson, Tait Starkell, Eric Sung, Madi Zadro; Ryan Hudson, athletic director; Jill Mathez, principal. Glenlawn Collegiate Student Athletes: Luke Adrian, Mohamad Althyab, Liam Antonishin, Jacob Bohn, Royce Canlubo, Nathan Dedominicis, Ben Doan, Israel Elendu, Nicolas Nadeau, Amanze Njoku, Augustine Okose, Daniel Zabaneh. Glenlawn Collegiate Coaching Staff: Russell Harder, Lance Letain; Dionne Potapinski, principal. Joe Potenza Hon.

Jeff Wharton (Minister of Economic Development, Investment and Trade): Madam Speaker, I rise in the House today to honour Joe Potenza, a long- time resident of Red River North for his outstanding contributions to his Grand Beach/Grand Marais community. Joe has over 40 years of serving the communities of Grand Beach and Grand Marais in various capacities. In the hospitality business, he was –he's operated both the former Grand Beach Surf Club and now the c urrent Potenza's Restaurant and Bar. Potenza's is a mainstay of the area and frequented by both residents and summer visitors.

Joe was the founding chairman and president of the Eastern Beaches Development Cor poration, and helped develop and implement several programs over the years, and many community economic initiatives have been –have benefited from Joe's involvement, Madam Speaker, assisting also to the development of the Thunder Mountain Water Slides and the develop- ment of the Grand Beach Entertainment Centre. Joe recently in –was involved in the recent dredging of the channel in Grand Beach Provincial Park, between the lagoon, Madam Speaker, and Lake Winnipeg. With the war in Ukraine, Joe felt a strong need to help refugees.

He also helped families find housing, employment, household goods and food. He was instrumental in organizing a Ukrainian fundraiser, the rock benefit concert at The MET, which raised over $100,000 to assist Ukraine refugees settle right here in Manitoba. Joe is also a true h umanitarian. In the early '90s, Joe was the recipient of a life -saving award from then-mayor, the honourable Bill Norrie for perform - ing CPR on one of his neighbours. And also just recently, Madam Speaker, Joe was a recipient of the Queen's Platinum Jubilee Medal.

Whether in his role as an entrepreneur in the hospitality business, spearheading and developing new

April 26, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1903 community initiatives or as a humanitarian, Joe is always there, ready and willing to help. Madam Speaker, I ask my colleagues to join me today in welcoming and acknowledging Joe Potenza, who is here with his guest Onalee Ames, in joining us today here in the gallery. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Introduction of Guests Madam Speaker: We have some other guests in the gallery that I would like to introduce you to.

We have, seated in the public gallery from Warren Collegiate, 30 grade 11 students under the direction of Lee Stewart, and this group is located in the con stituency of the honour able member for Lakeside (Mr. Eichler). On behalf of al l hon ourable members here, we welcome you to the Manitoba Legislature. ORAL QUESTIONS Health-Care System Privatization Concerns Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Manitobans are hearing from front -line health -care experts, who are very concerned about this Premier's plan to make more cuts to our health-care system and to privatize it. Dr.

Dan Roberts said, and I quote, there is a clear difference between engaging private companies in an accountable and ap propriate fashion versus turning the system into a pork barrel. End quote. Sleep doctors, they were forced to resign from the surgical task force com mittee that they were on, because their concerns were ignored. And, of course, Grace surgeons brought forward solutions for our public health-care system, only to have those proposals rejected by the Premier and the Health Minister's table.

Will the Premier tell the House why she ignored sleep doctors at the Misericordia, why she rejected proposals from Grace surgeons and why she ignores the advice of front -line health -care experts like Dr. Dan Roberts? Hon. Heather Stefanson (Premier): Madam Speaker, we welcome the advice of all front -line health-care workers. But I will also note that the Leader of the Opposition, once again, is putting false information on the record in this Chamber. * (14:00) We are making record investments in health care; almost $8 billion, Madam Speaker.

This year alone, a $668-million increase–9.2 per cent increase–to health care. That's more inves tments in our health -care system, not less. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: You know, Madam Speaker, thousands of Manitobans are waiting for surgeries in our pro- vince right now, and it's because of the cuts that this government has made. It started under Brian Pallister and it's continued right through this Stefanson govern- ment's time in office.

Now, instead of pushing a priva tization agenda, this government could listen to the front -line experts who are bringing forward all sorts of solutions that would see us invest in the front lines, investing in our public health-care system. But, of course, this Premier rejects those things out of hand and then comes to the Chamber and tries to deny that these events have taken place. So, why is the Premier rejecting advice to enhance our public health-care system and pushing ahead with this privatization agenda? Mrs. Stefanson: Just factually incorrect, Madam Speaker, once again.

T he Leader of the Op position continues to do this. We are investing more–record invest ments in health care–almost $2 billion more than the NDP ever invested in our health-care system. We will continue to stand up for patients each and every day in our province. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Surgical Backlogs Timeline to Clear Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Well, Madam Speaker, here are the facts. When you look at cardiac wait times, people are waiting longer than ever before.

When you look at people waiting for hip and knee surgeries, they're waiting longer than they ever have, and it's because of this Premier's cuts to health care and the mistakes that they've made during their time in office.

1904 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2023 That's probably why people like the Minister for Finance are quitting. They're frustrated with the state of our health-care system. We know that there's a ton of mistakes being made each and every day, but one thing that t his PC government has refused to do when it comes for surgical wait times is to set a clear date by which the backlog will be cleared. Will the Premier do so today? Will she commit to Manitobans a specific date by which they will have to stop waiting for surgeries? Madam Speaker: The honourable Minister of Health (Ms. Gordon).

An Honourable Member: Let's talk about clearing the backlogs in the province of Manitoba. In fact, we've completely eliminated the wait-list for cataract surgeries, CT scans. This, of course, is the pre-pandemic–or the pandemic backlogs, Madam Speaker, for ultrasound tests, cardiac catheterization, lab tests, pacemaker surgeries, pediatric neuro- developmental assessment, urology tests, the list goes on. I'll continue in the next line of questioning. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a new question. Rural Paramedic Services Working Conditions Mr.

Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): You know, Madam Speaker, I'll just table the docu - ments created by this Premier's government that actually prove Manitobans are waiting longer than ever for the surgeries that they need. We know that in rural Manitoba, rural paramedics are speaking out. Of course, they've been ignored for many years. They've had their wages frozen and they've been denied the ability to practise to their full scope of ability. Now, some of them are speaking out directly in public fora, like the media. In one quote, one rural paramedic said this directly: Have things gotten better?

No. Simply, no. End quote. That's what they said. This was in the Winnipeg Sun. Why has the Premier done nothing to address the bad working condi tions for rural paramedics across our province? Hon. Heather Stefanson (Premier): Madam Speaker, we want to thank all the paramedics for everything that they do to help patients in the province of Manitoba–both in rural Manitoba and in Winnipeg, northern Manitoba, all over this great province of ours. We will continue to make record investments in health care to ensure that they can deliver on those services.

What Manitobans don't want to go back to is the dark days of the previous NDP gov ernment who, when they were in power, closed 20 rural ERs. Madam Speaker: The honourable Le ader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: Madam Speaker, the Premier's trying to distract from the terrible situation in health care right now. People in rural Manitoba are waiting longer than ever to have an ambulance show up during their time of need. We have tabled these data points time and time again, and continually, the PCs reject the evidence that is present right there in their own backyards.

The Manitoba Association of Health Care Professionals' president spoke out, and he said that the situation for rural paramedics is, quote, honestly terrible. End quote. It's wrong. The gov ernment is refusing to take accountability for the mess that they've made in health care, and they know it. That's why they have to heckle, because there's no action that they can point to that has actually improved health care in Manitoba. Will the Premier acknowledge for the House that the situation for rural paramedics is, as they say, and that it's honestly terrible? Mrs.

Stefanson: While the Leader of the Opposition continues along his line of putting misinformation on the floor of the Chamber, Madam Speaker, I will remind Manitobans of what happened under the dark days of the NDP government, where they were closing rural emergency rooms. In places like Emerson, they closed; Manitou, closed; MacGregor, closed; St. Claude, closed; Gladstone, closed; Vita, closed; Erickson, closed; Rossburn, closed; Wawanesa, closed; Birtle, closed; Rivers, closed; Baldur, closed; McCreary, clo sed; Winnipegosis, closed; Whitemouth, closed; Teulon, closed.

Madam Speaker, the members opposite should be ashamed of themselves. Madam Speaker: The honourable leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: Madam Speaker, the Premier continually tries to distract from how bad health care is in Manitoba right now.

April 26, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1905 Folks in rural Manitoba are waiting longer than they ever have for ambulances, and rural paramedics are speaking out. Every thing that I said in the

preambles to the previous questions was 'attributal' – attributable to a specific paramedic, the ones who say that things are getting worse, the ones who say that the situation is, quote, honestly terrible. What does this government do? Do they invest in rural paramedics? No, they freeze their wages. Do they actually have a strategy when it comes to rural health care? No, they don't. They have talking points and heckling. Madam Speaker, we know that the situation for rural paramedics is one that needs urgent fixing. We are committed to that project.

Why does the Premier continue to only bring talking points when Manitobans want invest ments in health care? Mrs. Stefanson: Well, Madam Speaker, this isn't a distraction; it's, in fact, just putting th e facts on the record. And I look forward to the Leader of the Opposition visiting all of those com munities that I mentioned, because he should go out there and tell them the facts. The facts are that they closed their rural ERs in those communities. So, I look forward to him going out there and actually saying the facts to those communities.

Health-Care System Wait Times Public-Private Service Delivery MLA Uzoma Asagwara (Union Station): Madam Speaker, after seven years of cuts, this PC government is now shifting to the next phase of their plan. This Premier is intent on privatizing and contracting out the delivery of health services, even though there's exist- ing capacity that the PCs refuse to invest in. We know they ignore proposals from orthopedic surgeons at the Grace to increase procedures and forced them to go public with their concerns.

Will this Health Minister tell Manitobans why she decided it was not possible to direct funding to the front lines of our public health- care system and fund orthopedic surgeries right here at home? Hon. Audrey Gordon (Minister of Health): So, today we see a continuation of what the member for Union Station was doing yesterday, which was more NDP smoke and mirrors, Madam Speaker, to try to distract from Manitobans knowing what our gov ern- ment has been doing through the Diagnos tic and Surgical Recovery Task Force.

Madam Speaker, in terms of orthopedic hip surgeries, two –over 2,109 knee re placements, over 1,600 orthopedic hip surgeries; 200 more surgeries will be done at the Grace Hospital; standing up the Concordia fifth OR, 1,000 more hips and knee re - placements. Madam Speaker, more and not less. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Union Station, on a supplementary question.

MLA Asagwara: Madam Speaker, you know, it's unfortunate that the minister didn't bother to outline the thousands of Manitobans who continue to wait for hip and knee surgeries right now in Manitoba, and it's sad that she continues to confirm that she doesn't think she's accountable for the current state of health care in Manitoba. The PCs continue to put their ideology of cuts and privatization ahead of patient out comes.

Instead, this minister's own task force actually directed the Grace Hospital to cut the ir surgeries by 20 per cent and forced them to go public with their concerns. * (14:10) My question for the self -declared minister of the art of the possible: Is it possible that her government's continued cuts and inaction over the past seven years is the reason why the public has no trust in her? Ms.

Gordon: It was only a few short months ago when–I intend, after I leave the Chamber today, to go and pull out that infor mation and table it tomorrow that the members opposite were standing in front of the podiums in the rotunda and in media and right into my office and calling my office, pleading for our gov- ernment to pay for out -of-province surgeries for individuals who went out of country for surgeries, Madam Speaker. And then, through the task force, we created those pathways for individuals to get approval to be able to access a suite of services.

Now they're angry that we did what they had stood in front of podiums and media and asked to be done, Madam Speaker. They don't want Manitobans to know that we are taking the steps necessary to ensure they get the care they need.

1906 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2023 Madam Speaker: I am –prior to the member pro- ceeding with her question– [interjection]–their ques- tion, pardon me, I would like to indicate that when referring to members in the House, it should be by their proper title, and I would indicate that the member for Union Station was using an improper title for the Minister of Health. So, I just want to indicate to all members that when you are addressing members in the House, it is to be by their official titles. MLA Asagwara: Madam Speaker, I thank you for – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Order.

MLA Asagwara: Madam Speaker, I thank you for that reminder and I will adhere to that moving forward. Madam Speaker, sadly this PC Health Minister still thinks that seven years of cuts and chaos is the right move. Manitobans are correct in their assess - ment that this PC government cannot be trusted when it comes to health care. And while she hides in her office with her so-called table of solutions, she ignores advice from medical experts and health professionals across our province. Talk is cheap, Madam Speaker.

When will this Health Minister actually lead by example by investing in solutions for wait times, wait- time reductions at home here in Manitoba? Ms. Gordon: Madam Speaker, I know the members opposite struggle with mathematics, so 200 more hips and knees and orthopedic surgeries at Grace –that is addition. A fifth OR at Concordia Hospital to do 1,000 more hips and knee surgeries–that is addition.

And all the funding that has gone into ensuring that Manitobans will get the care that they need, such as our investment–our capital investments: $283 million for a new 90-bed hospital in Portage la Prairie, more addition again; $127 million for a new 60-bed hospital in Neepawa–more–more physicians, more incentives for nurses to retain, train and recruit. We continue to make record invest ments, some- thing they never did. Residential Group Home Placement Constituent Case Concern MLA Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): Rachel Lenz is desperately looking for help for her son Bentley, who has complex medical needs.

Rachel knows her son needs much more support than she's able to provide. She reached o ut to CFS 17 months ago for help to place her son in a residential group home. Bentley still has not received a placement. She's burnt out and she feels as though, and I quote, she's treading water. End quote. She says that the family–the system has failed her family. Can the minister explain: Why are families like Rachel's having to wait so long for the care that they need desperately right now? Hon. Rochelle Squires (Minister of Families): Of course, the wait times were substantial.

Of course, that was when we formed government. There had not been any investments in respite or solutions for parents who were dealing with adoles - cents and children who are facing severe dev elop- mental and intellectual dis abilities. There was no investments prior to our gov ernment forming office and committing to an $8-million bridge program and an additional $4 million in two respites that are now under way.

And, of course, if the member has a constituent that she would like me to look into their personal case, I would be more than happy to do it, but our gov ern- ment has recently invested $12 million in supports that the member did vote against. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a supplementary question. MLA Fontaine: Rachel Lenz has requested her son, Bentley, who has complex medical needs, be placed in a residential group home with 24-hour care. She was told the average wait time is around 10 months, yet 17 months later, her family continues to wait.

She says this puts an immense amount of stress on her and the whole family, Madam Speaker. Can the minister explain what actions she is taking to ensure that children are able to get the group-home placements that they desperately need? Ms. Squires: Of course, our government is committed to ensuring that we deal with the wait -lists and work individually with families and provide a person- centred approach. And certainly, willing to work with any family who is experiencing challenges and needs solutions to those complex challenges.

That is why our gov ernment introduced the first ever $8-million bridge program, because we believe that it is inappropriate for families to need to put their children in CFS care when there are no pro tection issues at all, but just simply to get the ad ditional

April 26, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1907 support that they need in dealing with their adoles - cents and children with complex disabilities. And that is why we invested that $8 million in the bridge program, and that is why we are committed to expanding that service. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a final supplementary. MLA Fontaine: In May of 2022, Rachel was told by CFS her son, Bentley, was able to move into a group home in July. Two months went by, then in September, the family was told that their spot was given away.

To this day, the family continues to wait for a placement for their son, Bentley. Rachel is a social services worker and a health - care aide. She knows better than anyone her son, Bentley, requires more support than she's able to provide. She is here today in the gallery with us, and I'm asking if the Minister of Families will meet with Rachel and her support today after QP to discuss her son Bentley's case? Ms. Squires: Madam Speaker, that member and I just spent some eight hour s in com mittee. We have been working on other issues together. I've been providing that member issues.

There has been plenty of op portunities for her to bring forward individual case information for my de- partment and myself to look into. And I believe that any time a situation has been brought to my attention, I have actioned it accordingly and we have had a dialogue and contact with the family in helping work through their issue.

And so, there has certainly been an openness on my part and my department's part, and I certainly wish that the members opposite would have, you know, chosen to pick up the phone and contacted me to bring this information forward, so that I could action it– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Crown Attorney Vacancies Recruitment and Retention Mr. Matt Wiebe (Concordia): Madam Speaker, Manitoba's Crown attorneys continue to be another group of provincial employees that are being disrespect- ed by this PC government.

This morning, the Manitoba Associat ion of Crown Attorneys issued a news release regarding the significant vacancies at Winnipeg and other regional offices. In it, President Erika Dolcetti said, quote: We are concerned about the admin istration of justice in our province as well as the physical and mental 'wellbil-being' of our members. This cannot continue. End quote. When will this government–when will this PC gov- ernment, rather –stop disrespecting Crown attorneys and come up with a recruitment and retention plan to fill vacancies and address their high caseloads? Hon.

Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Of course, we do respect our Crown attorneys and the im portant, significant work that they do. * (14:20) There was a formal grievance that was filed by the Manitoba Association of Crown Attorneys. It alleged that the workload conditions were putting prosecutors at risk of not fulfilling their pro fessional obligations to the Law Society. That was filed when the NDP were in gov ern- ment. I wonder if the member opposite said anything at that time. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Concordia, on a supplementary question. Mr.

Wiebe: Madam Speaker, the reality is, is that crime has increased under this PC government and, all the while, the responsibilities of those Crown attorneys have been expanding year over year. This PC gov ernment has not increased support and time available to keep pace with the surge in the workloads they are dealing with. Although they are not compensated for it, Cr own attorneys regularly work nights, weekends and holidays, all the while continuing to fall behind in managing their caseloads, as violent crime continues to rise.

When will this PC gov ernment stop with the cheap talk and support the work of prosecutor s who are working to keep our public safe? Mr. Goertzen: A few years after that complaint was filed, Madam Speaker, under the former NDP govern- ment, MACA also then came forward and said that some Crowns were juggling up to 400 files at a time and that the NDP had ignored warnings in 2009 about a report that was co-authored with Crowns who were looking at workloads. I understand from Crown prosecu- tions that the workload would be about half of what it was when it was stated that it was 400 files.

1908 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2023 I wonder why the member would–is bringing forward cheap talk today but said nothing then, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Concordia, on a final supplementary. Mr. Wiebe: We'll continue to try to bring this minis- ter into this decade and to the here and now where this Stefanson gov ernment continually disrespects our public servants, puts our province at a –and puts our province at a disadvantage when it comes to trying to recruit and retain prosecutors from across the country.

All the while , provinces like Ontario, Alberta, British Columbia, even next door in Saskatchewan are actively and successfully recruiting away Manitoba's senior Crown attorneys. Manitoba's justice system is suffering and Manitoba's safety is at stake because of the actions of this PC government. Why should anyone trust this gov ernment when it–when they show such disrespect to the work of the Crown attorneys? Mr. Goertzen: Well, in fact, last year there were 14 new Crown prosecutors that were recruited in Manitoba.

I understand that the vacancy rate at the end of this week will be around 6 per cent, which is where it historically is–or has been, Madam Speaker, at least under our government. But, of course, under the former gov ernment, there were the workloads of about 400 files, according to MACA. And there were workers' complaints –or there was complaints that were filed by MACA under the former gov ernment where the member opposite said nothing. I wonder why we should trust the NDP when they have a part-time MLA and a full-time defence lawyer.

Settlement of RCMP Collective Agreement Retroactive Costs for Manitoba Municipalities Ms. Lisa Naylor (Wolseley): Retroactive costs for RCMP services are owed back to 2017, and that represents a 23 per cent increase to policing costs that Manitoba municipalities are on the hook for. Without any addi tional funding, munici palities will be forced to–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Ms. Naylor: –make cuts, raise taxes or both. Selkirk has warned that the back pay could cost $101 tax increase per household, yet the PC gov ern- ment has been silent on this issue. Can the Premier (Mrs.

Stefanson) explain why she has failed–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Ms. Naylor: –to make this issue a priority? [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): The Premier has spoken out about this issue in her current role and in her former role as the minister of Justice. I have and former ministers of Justice have as well. This House actually has a reso lution currently before it that has been debated two times, calling on this House to unanimously agree that the federal government should fulfill that back pay for munici - palities.

We have agreed to that. I'm not sure about the Liberals. But the only people who haven't supported that resolution are the NDP. If they actually believed this, why don't they support the resolution? Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Wolseley, on a supplementary question. Ms. Naylor: This government likes to blame others. They have blamed the federal–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Ms. Naylor: –government but when I say they've been silent, they have not said what they will do to help. Municipalities are waiting for leadership from this PC gov ernment.

After a seven -year funding freeze, municipalities simply can't afford any ad di- tional major costs; major costs like $45 million of back pay that's owed to the RCMP. The Province needs to step up and support municipalities. Can the Premier explain what actions her govern- ment is taking to ensure munici palities and their ratepayers aren't left holding this bill? Mr. Goertzen: Madam Speaker, this gov ernment, this Minister of Municipal Relations (Mr. Smith) has provided record funding for municipalities. AMM has been very supportive of that funding.

AMM has been very supportive of the call we've made to the federal government to ensure that that back pay was paid by the federal government. But this is n't blaming others, Madam Speaker. There's a reso lution currently before this House,

April 26, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1909 before the Manitoba Legislature, calling on all MLAs to agree that the federal government should do the right thing and pay that back. The only people that are holding up that resolu - tion are the very people who are asking this question. It's the height of hypocrisy, Madam Speaker. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Order. The honourable member for Wolseley, on a final supplementary. Ms.

Naylor: Madam Speaker, this government thinks that it's ap propriate to starve somebody for seven years, then invite them to a banquet and then expect that they're going to be grateful. And that's what they've done to municipalities. Nineteen municipalities in Manitoba pay for policing through the Province, not the federal govern- ment. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Ms. Naylor: They want leadership from this govern- ment. Without any addi tional funding, they'll be forced to pick up the $45-million tab for RCMP back pay. That would force munici palities to make cuts, raise taxes or both.

That's not what munici palities or Manitobans want. Can the Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) explain what she is doing to ensure that ratepayers aren't being forced to pick up the $45-million tab– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Hon. Andrew Smith (Minister of Municipal Relations): Madam Speaker, the AMM applauds the Manitoba gov ernment for provi ding an addi tional $47 million in unconditional funding for mun ici- palities. Who said that? The A -M president, Kam Blight.

As inflation has significantly impacted municipal budgets and munici palities are not permitted to run deficits, this historic municipal funding announce - ment will help local councils respond to current financial pressures, build stronger com munities and finalize local budgets with certainty. Who said that, Madam Speaker? A-M president, Kam Blight. As the second largest city in the province, this new funding will support and help the City of Brandon with long-term planning, while helping us deliver the best services to our residents. Who said that, Madam Speaker? Mayor Jeff Fawcett.

On this side of the House, we stand with munici- palities– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. Order. Order. As a courtesy to Hansard, I would ask that mem- bers try to contain themselves when these, you know, issues are being discussed. Hansard needs to pick up on all of this, and when there is suc h a loud noise in the House, I can't hear and Hansard can't hear and the clerks can't hear. So, we're all kind of stuck unless everybody respects the process in here. * (14:30) So, I'm going to ask for everybody's co-operation please.

Health-Care System Reorganization Manitoba Health Report Findings Mr. Dougald Lamont (St. Boniface): The report we tabled in health-care resilience earlier this week really laid bare the reality of how this PC gov ernment has decimated the health-care system. The Premier said it's a problem everywhere, but the report makes it clear it's worse in Manitoba than anywhere else, with half of workers consid ering quitting. The Premier said it's the pandemic, but the report makes it clear it was bad before the pandemic.

The Premier has denied cuts, but there, in black and white, it says many have faced w age freezes despite higher workloads, so people are leaving. Was this report kept confi dential and its urgent recommendations ignored because it undermines the government's entire narrative on what they've done to health care in this province? Hon. Audrey Gordon (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, we value and ap preciate all health pro fes- sionals, whether they work in the civil service, whether they work in com munity health, acute care. We value and appreciate their feedback.

We regularly send out surveys and ask for reports because it's about continuous improvement. We recognize that there's more work to be done. We are committed to work with our health -system leaders, our leaders in the civil service, to ensure that any changes that are needed are made.

1910 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2023 Madam Speaker: The honour able member for St. Boniface, on a supplementary question. Mr. Lamont: I tabled a Global News story from September 2020 w here, instead of getting ready for the pandemic's second wave, the then- premier and Health minister announced they were going to pro- ceed with a self-described disruptive reorganization of health. At the time Brian Pallister said the system was top-heavy and tough love was needed to cut the bureaucracy. The people who lost their jobs were payroll, human resource and accounts receivable.

In - credibly, the Manitoba NDP is now running on exactly the same promise: to cut the people who do the paperwork so that doctors and nurses and health professionals don't have to. The April 2022 resilience report–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Lamont: –says changes like these drove people out of the system. Does the Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) accept respon- sibility, or are they going to deny what this report says? Ms. Gordon: Madam Speaker, our gov ernment is investing in health human resources.

That is why I was pleased to stand with our Premier on November 10th of 2022 to announce the health human re source action plan, to announce a historic invest ment of $200 million to add 2,000 health professionals to the health system. We are continuing to work with unions. We're continuing to work with stakeholders, to listen to the front line so that we ca n achieve this growth that is needed in health human resources. Health Coverage for Work Permit Holders Residency Eligibility Requirements Ms.

Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): Manitoba Health is denying health coverage for some individ - uals here in Manit oba on work permits because of a technicality. Under current legislation a person must reside in Manitoba for 12 months straight in order to be eligible for health coverage. For the most part this requirement is met. However, some work permit holders are just a few days shy and they are being disqualified for health coverage. Madam Speaker, those with work permits pay taxes and contribute to our economy just like every - one else.

What is this minister going to do to ensure those who are here on work permits are eligible for Manitoba Health coverage? Hon. Audrey Gordon (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, I thank the member for bringing this issue forward because it's actually an issue we have been addressing with the federal gov ernment because it 's actually a glitch in their work permit. And I ask and call on the member to contact the Liberals–the federal Liberals–to ask them to make the change in how their work permits are handed out and the timelines that is– [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Ms.

Gordon: –given to individuals who received these permits. We are more than happy, as Manitobans, this welcoming province, to ensure individuals receive health care, but it's a federal gov ernment glitch, Madam Speaker. Spine Assessment Clinic Funding for Physical Therapists Mr. Josh Guenter (Borderland): Madam Speaker, while the NDP politicizes health care in Manitoba, our government is focused on patients and provi ding the quality care they need.

Our government has eliminated pandemic back - logs in 10 areas, including CT scans, cataract surgeries, ultrasound tests and backlogs in many other areas have significantly been reduced. Can the Minister of Health elaborate on additional investments her gov ernment has made to help Manitobans living with back pain get the care they need more quickly? Hon. Audrey Gordon (Minister of Health): I thank the member for Borderland for the question. Madam Speaker, our government invested $400,000 to hire four new physical therapists to reduce wa it times at the spine assessment clinic.

As a result of this investment, patients living with back pain have seen wait times to see physical therapists reduce by more that 60 per cent in the past eight months. The increased staffing has allowed patient capacity to nearly triple from less than a year

April 26, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1911 ago, allowing for many more patients to be seen. I'm thrilled to see this progress. Our gov ernment continues to be committed to improving patient care, bringing down wait times, including access to specialized services such as this. Thank you. Construction Industry Workers Wage Reduction Concerns MLA Malaya Marcelino (Notre Dame): Madam Speaker, this PC gov ernment is completely out of touch with regular Manitobans. While the Premier (Mrs.

Stefanson) conveniently forgets to disclose over $30 million from her invest - ments, hard-working Manitobans in the construction industry are left waiting to find out if they'll get a wage increase this fall. This past month, the PC government closed public input on their plans to cut wages for apprentices and others working in the trades. When will the minister confirm whether or not these workers can expect a wage increase this fall when the general minimum wage is set to go up? Hon. Sarah Guillemard (Minister of Advanced Education and Training): The member and I have sort of gone back and forth over this.

I have stated many times that we are not discussing anyone's wages being lowered. So I don't know why the member keeps bringing these false assertions to the floor of this Chamber. It's irresponsible and I think it's disappointing to Manitobans. First and foremost, I want to thank all the apprentices who have chosen a career in trades. It is a rewarding career and our government has invested over the last seven years to enhance the program where, under the NDP, they lost track of hundreds of apprentices and never followed up to see if they could enhance their programs to help them complete their certificates.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Notre Dame, on a supplementary question. MLA Marcelino: Madam Speaker, the cost of groceries keeps going up, gas costs continue be prohibitive, but this Premier could not care less about the workers and apprentices–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. MLA Marcelino: –who build our province. Apprenticeship and construction industry wages are currently tied to the minimum wage, but the PCs are now looking to cut future wage increases for these skilled workers, and that's wrong. Will this minister stop her plans to cut apprentice- ship and construction wages today? Mrs.

Guillemard: It's unfortunate the member has to continually look at her notes and the prepared questions for her on this when I've already clearly answered her question. Now, I can't help the member listen to the answers or understand what they mean, but I am happy to reassure Manitobans that we are not looking at reducing any wages of any apprentices here in Manitoba. In fact, we did proceed with a process to get their feedback. It's s omething the NDP did not do. They don't reach to get feedback from industry, from stake- holders, from people who are going to be impacted by their decisions.

They make their decisions and then they impact Manitobans with no ability, aside from elections, to give feedback. We will not do that. We will not disrespect Manitobans like the NDP have. Madam Speaker: The time for oral questions has expired. * (14:40) Speaker's Ruling Madam Speaker: And I have a ruling for the House. Following oral questions on April 13th, 2023, the honourable Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage (Mr. Khan) raised a matter of privilege regarding an incident which occurred over the lunch recess on that day, during an event held in the Rotunda.

The minister alleged that during the event, the honour able Leader of the Official Op position (Mr. Kinew) attempted to physically and verbally intimidate him, including making several profane comments. The minister concluded his remarks by moving, and I quote, "t hat this matter be immediately referred to a permanent standing com- mittee of this House for investigation." End quote. The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition spoke to the matter of privilege, apologizing to the minister for the interaction, but also disputing the facts that they had been related. The hon ourable member for River Heights (Mr.

Gerrard) also spoke to the matter before I took it under advisement. As members know, there are two condi tions that must be satisfied in orde r for a matter raised to be

1912 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2023 ruled in order as a prima facie case of privilege: Was the issue raised at the earliest op portunity, and was sufficient evidence provided to support the member's claim that their privilege or the privileges of the House were breached? In his submission on this matter, the honour able Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage (Mr. Khan) indicated that this was his earliest opportunity to raise this in the House, and I accept the member's words on that point.

On the second condition, of whether the member provided sufficient evidence to support a prima facie case of privilege, there are several factors to consider. Regarding the issue of intimidation of a member, in order for a breach of a member's privileges to have occurred, Joseph Maingot advises on page 222 of the second edition of Parlia mentary Privilege in Canada that the activity in question must involve a, and I quote, proceeding of Parliament. End quote. This concept is supported by numer ous rulings from Manitoba Speakers, dating back as far as 1988.

As was noted in those rulings, debate in this Chamber or in a committee constitutes a proceeding of Parliament; however, events taking place outside the Chamber, such as a public event in the R otunda, do not fall within that purview. Further to that point, Speaker Parent of the House of Commons ruled in 1997 that in order for a member to claim that their privileges have been breached, at the time of the alleged offence they must have been functioning as a member a ctually participating in a proceeding of Parliament.

As well, on page 620 of the third edition of House of Commons practice and procedure, Bosc and Gagnon state that the Speaker has no authority to rule on statements made outside of the House by one member against another. For these reasons, I must conclude that a prima facie case of privilege was not established in this case. Before I conclude this ruling, though, I have some thoughts to share with you. I found it concerning there were–that there we re two different versions of the same event shared within this House.

As noted earlier, I am unable to rule on events outside of this Chamber, so it is not my place as Speaker to try to mediate that difference of facts. But I am troubled that either version of the incident could have occurred at all. Whether you are serving as MLAs in a pro ceed- ing of Parliament, or whether you are out in the com- munity, I wish that you could all treat each other respectfully and honourably. I cannot count how many times I have stood in this spot and asked members to do better in your interactions with one another.

I have expressed this sentiment in many ways over the years, and each time, I felt hopeful that the message would resonate. I'm going to try that again now, a nd I truly hope that you will all take this message to heart. The 57 people chosen by the citizens of Manitoba to represent them in this place occupy rare air. We have all been granted an exceptional opportunity to try and make this province a better pl ace to live for all Manitobans, and I strongly believe that every single one of you wants to do that.

I understand how this place works; I have been a continuous member of this Assembly longer than anyone in this room, so I know how and why partisan agendas drive the actions of members, and I know that partisan behaviour is an important part of how things get accomplished here. I feel, though, that in recent years, the temperature in this room has been rising. I feel that the balance between partisan agendas and professional courtesies has tipped in the direction of partisan divisions and away from constructive and collegial interactions.

Let me be clear about this: I'm not saying that any one side of the House has caused this circum stance. Our entire political dynamic has shifted this way, in this Chamber and in our com munity. This is also not unique to Manitoba, of course. We see this across the country and around the world. In the face of this trend, however, my personal wish is that this Ass embly could be an exception. I believe it is possible for all of us to take a long , hard look in the mirror and resolve to do better, to be better, to be adversaries but not enemies.

People watch what we do here in this Chamber and in this building, and w hat we do here matters to the people of Manitoba. I would urge all of you to remember that, while we are doing this im portant work, that we can be civil and even kind to one another. We can disagree, debate, criticize and advo - cate, but if we cannot demonstrate the kind of civility and respect to each other that we would expect of people outside of this place–work associates, constit- uents, even our families–how can we expect our con- stituents to respect us and support us?

In a few months, most of you are going to be asking the good citizens of this province to cast a ballot with an X beside your name. When you are out knocking on doors and meeting folks, I hope you will

April 26, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1913 be able to tell them you have done better here, that you have done your best to represent them respectfully and capably while advocating for their best interests. Thank you all for your attention to this ruling. PETITIONS Brandon University Funding Mr. Nello Altomare (Transcona): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. To the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, these are the reasons for this petition:

(1) Since taking office, the provincial government has been–has cut operating funding to post-secondary institutions such as Brandon University, while simultaneously increasing tuition and student fees.

(2) Brandon University is the only university in rural Manitoba and serves–and is an important hub for Westman.

(3) Brandon University is the largest university outside of Winnipeg with over 2,200 full -time students and just under 1,000 part-time students.

(4) Despite the important role Brandon University plays in Manitoba, the provincial government is continuing to cut the university's funding in Budget '23-24, as funding yet again fails to keep pace with inflation.

(5) Inadequate funding hurts students and the quality of education they receive as it may force Brandon University to raise tuition, cut programs and services, or both.

(6) Funding cuts also negatively impact Brandon University's faculty who are at risk of having their courses cut or being let go altogether.

(7) The provincial government has failed to ex - plain why Brandon University's '23 -24 operating funding increase falls below inflation, and why it is lower than other universities in Manitoba. We therefore petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to adequately fund Brandon University so that the institution can avoid making cuts and continue to serve students, faculty, Westman and the pr ovince of Manitoba as a whole. This petition, Madam Speaker, is signed by many Manitobans.

Madam Speaker: In accordance with our rule 133(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House. Right to Repair Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background of this petition is as follows:

(1) Manitoba consumers believe products should last–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Maloway: –longer, be repaired when broken, and that planned obsolescence has environmental con- sequences that threaten a sustainable future.

(2) In 2021, the European Union set minimum design standards for many electronic devices with new right to repair legislation.

(3) The right to repair ena bles consumers access to the resources needed to fix and modify their products, appliances, including cellphones, washing machines and refrigerators.

(4) The right to repair also allows the consumers and electronic repair businesses access to the most recent versions of repair manuals, replacement parts and software and other tools that the manufacturer uses for diagnosing, maintaining or repairing its branded electronic products.

(5) The right to repair further allows consumers to reset an electronic security function of its branded electronic products if the function is disabled during diagnosis, maintenance or repair. * (14:50)

(6) In addition, the right to repair ensures manu- facturers replace electronic products at no cost, or refund the amount paid by the consumer to purchase the electronic product where they refuse or are unable to provide manuals or replacement parts. We petition the legislative of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to adopt right- to-repair legislation requiring manufacturers of electronic devices and appliances, including washing machines and fridges, to make information, parts and tools necessary to repair –for repairs available to consumers and independent repair shops. And this petition is signed by many, many Manitobans.

1914 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2023 Health-Care Coverage Mr. Jamie Moses (St. Vital): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. To the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba, the background for this petition is as follows:

(1) Health care is a b asic human right and a fundamental part of responsible public health. Many people in Manitoba are not covered by provincial health care: migrant workers with work permits of less than one year, international students and those undocumented residents who have lost their status for a variety of reasons.

(2) Racialized people in –and communities are disproportionately affected by the pandemic, mainly due to the social and economic conditions which leave them vulnerable while performing essential work in a variety of industries in Manitoba.

(3) Without adequate health- care coverage, if they are ill, many of the uninsured will avoid seeking health care due to fear of being charged for the care, and some will fear possible detention and deportation if their immigration status is reported to the authorities.

(4) According to the United Nations Human Rights Committee, denying essential health care to undocumented, irregular migrants is a violation of their rights.

(5) Jurisdictions across Canada and the world have adopted access -without-fear policies to prevent sharing personal health information or immigration status with immigration authorities and to give uninsured residents the confidence to access health care.

(6) The pandemic has clearly identified the nee d for everyone in Manitoba to have access to health care to protect the health and safety of all who live in the province. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the provincial government to immediately provide comprehensive and free health - care coverage to all residents of Manitoba, regardless of immigration status, including refugee claimants, migrant workers, international students, dependant children of temporary residents and undocumented residents.

(2) To urge the minister of Health and seniors care to undertake a multilingual communication campaign to provide information on expanded coverage to all affected residents.

(3) To urge the minister of Health and seniors care to inform all health institutions and provi ders of expanded coverage for those without health insurance and the details on how necessary policy and protocol changes will be implemented.

(4) To urge the minister of Health and seniors care to create and enforce strict confidentiality policies and provide staff with training to protect the safety of residents with precarious immigration status and ensure they can access health care without jeopardizing their ability to remain in Canada. This petition has been signed by many Manitobans. Punjabi Bilingual Programs in Public Schools Mrs. Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): I wish to present the following petition to the Legis lative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) According to census 2021, Punjabi is the fourth most spoken language in Canada and there are 33,315 people in Manitoba whose native language is Punjabi.

(2) Thousands of Punjabi newcomers are coming to Manitoba as students and as immigrants, looking to call this province home. People of P unjabi origin contribute a great deal to the social and economic dev- elopment of Canada and Manitoba in fields such as education, science, health, business and politics.

(3) In coming to Manitoba, Punjabi new comers make sacrifices, including distance from their cultural roots and language. Many Punjabi parents and families want their children to retain their language and keep a continued cultural appreciation.

(4) Manitoba has many good bilingual programs in public schools for children and teens available in other languages, including French, Ukrainian, Ojibwe, Filipino, Cree, Hebrew and Spanish. Punjabi bilingual programs for children and teens as well as Punjabi language instruction at a college and uni ver- sity level could similarly teach and maintain Punjabi language and culture.

(5) Punjabi bilingual instruction will help cross - cultural friendships, relationships and marriages and prepare young people to be multilingual professionals. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

April 26, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1915 To urge the prov incial government to take steps to implement Punjabi bilingual programs in public schools similar to existing bilingual programs and take steps to implement Punjabi language instruction in other levels of education in Manitoba. And this has been signed by Karmajit [phonetic] Singh, Kuldeep Singh [phonetic], Manpreet Singh, and many others. Madam Speaker: Grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS House Business Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Government House Leader): I have a series of committees to announce.

I'd like to announce that the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Develop ment will meet on Monday, May 8th, 2023, at 6 p.m. to consider the following: Bill 29, The Life Leases Amend ment Act; and Bill 38, The Builders' Liens Amend ment Act (Prompt Payment). Madam Speaker: It has been announced that the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development will meet on Monday, May 8th, 2023, at 6 p.m. to consider the following: Bill 29, The Life Leases Amendment Act; Bill 38, The Builders' Liens Amendment Act (Prompt Payment). Mr.

Goertzen: Madam Speaker, I'd like to announce that the Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs will meet on Monday, May 8th, 2023, at 6 p.m. to consider the following: Bill 21, The Highway Traffic Amendment Act; Bill 22, The Emergency Measures Amendment Act; Bill 25, The Workers Compensation Amendment Act, wildlife firefighters; and Bill 36, The Fair Registration Practices in Regulated Professions Amendment Act.

Madam S peaker: It has been announced that the Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs will meet on Monday, May 8th, 2023, at 6 p.m. to consider the following: Bill 21, The Highway Traffic Amend ment Act; Bill 22, The Emergency Measures Amend ment Act; Bill 25, The Workers Compensation Amendment Act (Wildfire Firefighters); Bill 36, The Fair Registration Practices in Regulated Professions Amendment Act. Mr.

Goertzen: I'd also like to announce that the Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs will meet on Tuesday, May 9th, 2023, at 6 p.m. to consider the following: Bill 23, The Vulnerable Persons Living with a Mental Dis ability Amend ment Act; Bill 31, The Animal Care Amendment Act (2); and Bill 32,

An Act respecting Child and Family Services (Indigenous Jurisdiction and Related Amendments). Madam Speaker: It has been announced that the Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs will meet on Tuesday, May 9th, 2023, at 6 p.m. to consider the following: Bill 23, The Vulnerable Persons Living with a Mental Dis ability Amend ment Act; Bill 31, The Animal Care Amend ment Act (2); Bill 32,

An Act respecting Child and Family Services (Indigenous Juris- diction and Related Amendments). Mr. Goertzen: Madam Speaker, I'd like to announce that the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development will meet on Wednesday, May 10th, 2023, at 6 p.m. to consider Bill 10, The Liquor, Gaming and Cannabis Control Amendment Act (Social Responsibility Fee Repealed).

Madam Speaker: It has been announced t hat the Standing Com mittee on Social and Economic Development will meet on Wednesday, May 10th, 2023, at 6 p.m. to consider Bill 10, The Liquor, Gaming and Cannabis Control Amendment Act (Social Responsibility Fee Repealed). Mr.

Goertzen: And, finally, I'd like to announce that the Standing Com mittee on Justice will meet on Wednesday, May 10th, 2023, at 6 p.m. to consider the following: Bill 7, The Liquor, Gaming and Cannabis Control Amend ment Act; Bill 16, The Domestic Violence and Stalking Amendment Act; and Bill 27, The Intimate Image Protection Amendment Act. * (15:00) Madam Speaker: It has been announced that the Standing Com mittee on Justice will meet on Wednesday, May 10th, 2023, at 6 p.m. to consider the following: Bill 7, The Liquor, Gaming and Cannabis Control Amendment Act; Bill 16, The Domestic Violence and Stalking Amendment Act; and Bill 27, The Intimate Image Protection Amendment Act. * * * Mr.

Goertzen: Madam Speaker, could you please resolve into Committee of Supply. Madam Speaker: It has been announced that the House will consider Estimates this afternoon. This House will now resolve into Committee of Supply. Mr. Deputy Speaker, please take the Chair.

1916 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2023 COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) CHAMBER JUSTICE Mr. Ch airperson (Andrew Micklefield): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Mr. Chairperson, I'm seeking leave to recess this

section of Committee of Supply to reconvene back into the House. Mr. Chairperson: There has been a request to recess this

section of Supply and reconvene back into the House. Is it the will of the House to do so–[interjection]– the will of the committee to do so? [Agreed] This House–[interjection]–the committee is recessed. Call in the Speaker. IN SESSION Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Government House Leader): I'm seeking leave to allow the two sections of Committee of Supply to sit concurrently with the House while the House considers other business, with the understanding that if a recorded vote is required in one section, the House will resolve into the Chamber

section of Supply to conduct the vote. And just for certainty, the two sections that will continue on are in committee rooms 254 and 255. Madam Speaker: Is there leave to allow the two sections of the Committee of Supply, which are sitting in rooms 254 and 255, to sit concurrently with the House while the House considers other busi ness, with the understanding that if a recorded vote is requested in one section, the House will resolve into the Chamber

section of Supply to conduct the vote? Agreed? [Agreed] Mr. Goertzen: Is there leave to consider in the House this afternoon without notice a gov ernment motion regarding request for the provision of security camera footage? Madam Speaker: Is there leave to consider in the House this afternoon without notice a gov ernment motion regarding a request for the provision of security camera footage? Agreed? [Agreed] GOVERNMENT MOTION Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Government House Leader): I move, seconded by the Minister of Advanced Education and Training (Mrs. Guillemard), that, in accordance with

section 34 and 52.1(1) of The Legislative Assembly Act, the Speaker direct the chief legislative security officer to provide to the Speaker a copy of the security camera recording concerning the incident that occurred between the member for Fort Whyte (Mr. Khan) and the member for Fort Rouge (Mr.

Kinew) during the lunch recess at the event that was held in the Rotunda of the Legislative Assembly on April 13th, 2023, and that, on receipt of the copy of the security camera recording, the Speaker is requested to take reasonable measures to make it avail- able to all members, and to members of the Manitoba press gallery, in a manner determined by the Speaker. * (16:20) Motion presented. Madam Speaker: Are there any members wishing to speak in debate? The–[interjection] Is the House ready for the question? Some Honourable Members: Question.

Madam Speak er: The question before the House, then, is the motion just put forward by the honourable Government House Leader. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Mr. Goertzen: Could the

section of Estimates in the Chamber resolve into Committee of Supply. Madam Speaker: It has been announced that the

section of Supply will reconvene in the House. Mr. Deputy Speaker, please take the Chair. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) (Continued) ROOM 254 NATURAL RESOURCES AND NORTHERN DEVELOPMENT * (15:00) Mr. Chairperson (Dennis Smook): Good afternoon. Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now consider the Estimates of the Department of Natural Resources and Northern Development.

April 26, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1917 Does the honourable minister have an opening statement? Hon. Greg Nesbitt (Minister of Natural Resources and Northern Development): Well, good afternoon and thank you, Mr. Chairperson. It's my pleasure to be here today and speak as the Minister of Natur al Resources and Northern Development. This is a great opportunity to speak about how the department's pro- grams will deliver value within this year's budget. I want to state how pleased I am to be the minister of this new de partment that serves Manitobans in numerous ways.

I would like to begin by acknowledging the dedi- cation and professionalism of all the staff within our department. As the minister, I take my role very seriously, and our vision is one of a working land- scape where peopl e, communities and nature thrive. This vision reflects our government's commitment to balancing the needs of Manitobans in all aspects while working collaboratively with stakeholders from local communities and Indigenous communities to industry. Our goal is for the department to take a leadership role in ensuring the long -term sustainability of fish, forests and wildlife and protected space.

These goals are not mutually exclusive and benefit all of Manitoba. Over the last year, my depa rtment has been col - laborating with many Manitobans across the province, Indigenous com munities and other stake holders, to promote the management and responsi ble use of our natural resources. Listening to Manitobans is some - thing our gov ernment, and myself as minister, have been doing with great success, and this is something I will continue to do going forward. I am committed to listening to Manitobans and to stakeholder and industry groups to improve the services our department offers.

I want to highlight several priority areas of work in our de partment as a way to frame the opening of our discussion in committee today. Parks and trails–provincial parks are special places that play an important role in the protection of natural lands and the quality of life of Manitobans. They play a critical role in conserving ecosystems, maintaining biodiversity, preserving natural, cultural and heritage resources and providing outdoor recreational and edu- cational op portunities and experi ences in a natural setting.

To enhance visitor experience, modernize funding mechanisms for parks services and identify opportun- ities to attract private and philanthropic investment to upgrade facilities, my department is dedicated to renew- ing the prov incial parks strategy. We have also pledged to take a leading role in developing and maintaining a provincial trail network for hiking, biking, snowmobiles and off-road vehicles, including funding mechanisms, tourism amenities and the reduction of regulatory barriers that restrict trail development.

As part of our parks infrastructural renewal strategy and trails strategy and action plan, we are working hard to create a high -quality network of ac cessible trails that will provide health, so cial and economic benefits for trail users and com munities across the province. Our provincial parks are more than just places to explore and enjoy the outdoors. They are essential for preserving our natural resources, promoting tourism and enhancing our quality of life. Conservation Officer Service –I want to take an opportunity to acknowledge the service of our conser- vation officers.

These dedicated men and women are responsible for delivering natural resource law enforce- ment throughout the province, working in regional and district offices and performing their duties on the landscape across our province, from Churchill to Virden and everywhere in between. They play a critical role in ensuring the safety and security of provincial parks and protected spaces, managing dangerous wildlife situations and responding to public concerns. Through their efforts, they protect Manitoba's natural resources and enable all of us to enjoy the beauty of our province's remote areas.

Conservation officers protect Manitoba's natural resources and keep our parks, protected spaces and remote areas safe for the enjoyment of all. I want to express my sincere gratitude for their hard work, which extends far beyond addressing unsafe hunting practices. Their contributions to ensuring sustainable fishing practices and respon sible quota manage ment are invaluable. By protecting our natural resources, they are ensuring that future genera tions will be able to enjoy the same privileges that we do in be autiful Manitoba.

Manitoba Wildfire Service–protecting the environ- ment and our natural resources is a key component of our department. I would like to recognize and express my pride in our firefighting crews and leaders, who work tirelessly all spri ng and summer to protect Manitobans and their property from dangerous wild- fires, ensuring that we manage these situations professionally and safely.

1918 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2023 Our government is fully committed to supporting the Manitoba Wildfire Service and ensuring that personnel are hired, trained and working co-operatively with other agencies, from rural municipalities to Indigenous communities, to other provinces. Addition- ally, the Canadian Interagency Forest Fire Centre, based here in Winnipeg, is a Canada-wide organization that ensures provinces work co-operatively together by sharing resources each year where required, depend- ing on where heavy fire activity is in the country.

I'm very pleased with this show of part nership across jurisdictions, and I look forward to continued col lab- oration to protect our natural resources and keep Manitobans safe. Fisheries and wildlife–the fisheries branch manages the province's aquatic resources and operates under several key strategies and initiatives, including the Recreational Angling Strategy, commercial fishing management and certification, aquatic invasive species strategy, live bait management and fish culture program.

The branch is responsi ble for ensuring the sus tain- ability and certification of com mercial fisheries, monitoring and managing aquatic invasive species and producing fish for stocking numerous recreational fisheries across Manitoba. The wildlife branch is committed to sus tainable management practices and protecting threatened species in the province. They work col laboratively with stakeholders to develop a wide range of plans to ensure the sus tainability of caribou popula tions and their habitat while balancing the needs of human activity across the landscape.

Additionally, the branch is actively engaged in monitoring and responding to emerging threats to wildlife, such as chronic wasting disease. We have taken action to address the spread of CWD, including increasing funding for their Wildlife Health program and reviewing surveillance, preven- tion and response plans based on specifically rigorous principles. * (15:10) Forestry and peatlands –moving to forestry, Manitoba's forest sector provides an oppor tunity to strengthen our northern and rural communities. In recent years, forest product markets have experienced a major upswing.

Existing industry has demonstrated a surge in capital investment, and there's potential for new industry development. The department is actively working with industry and Indigenous nations to build a resilient and inclusive forest sector that is poised for growth. We are working collaboratively with First Nations to increase partici pation in, and share benefits from, the forestry sector. Historic revenue -sharing agree - ments have been signed with six First Nations to date, and we are in discussions with other nations to share timber dues revenue.

We are working closely with industry to ensure stability and certainty in wood supply, which is im - portant for continued capital investment. Major initia- tives include supporting part nerships and assisting with the navigation of regulatory requirements. Consultation and reconciliation. We have been working with our Indigenous partners to build relation- ships and increase participation in all natural resource sectors to ensure everyone benefits.

Our gov ernment is committed to meaningful consultation processes and renewing our relationships with Indigenous peoples based on recog nition of rights, respect, co- operation and partnerships. In closing, there are many ongoing activities and crucial priorities for our de partment. We are com - mitted to building part nerships and continuing our ongoing discussions and consultations with individuals, industry and Indigenous communities across Manitoba. I am excited to continue working co-operatively with all stakeholders to fulfill our mandates and priorities.

I want to state again that this is simply a small sampling of our various activities and programs, and I look forward to exploring addi tional details as we discuss our departmental budget Estimates. Thank you. Mr. Chairperson: We thank the minister for those comments. Does the critic from the official op position have an opening statement? MLA Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): My opening statement will be much shorter than the minister's, because a lot of the questions I'll be asking are specific to things that he referenced in his speech.

So I just want to say that, on this side, we certainly recognize and ap preciate all the staff that work for Natural Resources, and recognize the tremendous hurdles that they've had to overcome with shortages of staff and underfunding and all the things that we've talked about many times in the House and haven't really got adequate answers for. And maybe we'll pursue some of those issues today and going forward with this Estimates process. So I look forward to the minister's commitment to giving really good answers to the questions so that the

April 26, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1919 people of Manitoba understand exactly what some of the plans are, going forward, and what some of the issues may be that the minister really should be focusing on and getting addressed. So, thank you. Mr. Chairperson: We thank the member for those comments. Under Manitoba practice, debate on the minister's salary is the last item considered for a de partment in the Committee of Supply. Accordingly, we shall now defer consideration of line item 25.1(a), contained in resolution 25.1.

At this time, we invite the minister's staff to join us at the table, and we ask the minister intro duce the staff in attendance. Mr. Nesbitt: I'd like to acknowledge the senior staff from my department that are with me here today. To my imme diate left here is Ryan Klos, the acting deputy minister. We have Todd Callin, the executive financial officer and assist ant deputy minister of the Finance and Shared Services Division. We have Jana Schott, the assistant deputy minister responsi ble for the Parks and Trails Division.

We have Matt Conrod back there, the acting assistant deputy minister of the Stewardship and Resource Dev elopment Division. And we have Kristin Hayward upfront here, the assist- ant deputy minister responsi ble for the Resource Management and Protection Division, and my special assistant over there, Colin Robinson. Mr. Chairperson: Thank you, Minister. The floor is now open for questions. MLA Lindsey: Appreciate the minister's staff being here to assist him in answering questions, and I look forward to those questions being answered.

So I guess we'll start with a few technical -type questions, if you will, upfront. Can the minister undertake, or tell us today, a list of all technical ap pointments in his de partment, including names and titles? Mr. Nesbitt: Under technical officers, we have acting deputy minister Ryan Klos, we have special assistant Colin Robinson and my executive assistant, Cameron Wood. MLA Lindsey: I thank the minister for that. Does the minister have an organizational chart that lists all employees and program areas that he can share with us? Mr.

Nesbitt: So, the MLA for Flin Flon presumably has the Supplement to the Estimates of Expenditure in front of him, just take him to page 3–page 3. It says page 3, but it might be a little deeper in. There's a page in there that says, organi zation structure as of April 1st. Would you like me to read through all that for you? MLA Lindsey: I thank the minister for pointing that out in the book. I guess, is there anything missing from that chart, or does it break down any further into the opera- tional ends of things that we need to be aware of? Mr.

Nesbitt: No, I believe this chart reflects our current organizational structure. MLA Lindsey: So, somewhere throughout the Estimates book, does it lis t or show all the employees and program areas that the minister's responsible for? Just as an example, I see there's a box that says parks, but is there a more com prehensive showing for who all works as part of that division? Is there different divisions within the parks thing itself? And that would hold true for some of the other de partments, as well, then? * (15:20) Mr. Nesbitt: I don't have a breakdown of employee names.

I do have a breakdown of full-time equivalent employees by depart ment. Und er Parks and Trails we have 156.15 full time; Manitoba Wildfire Service has 15–or 58.2 full-time equivalents; Resource Management and Pro tection, 207; Stewardship and Resource Development, we have 90; and in Finance and Shared Services we have 22, for a total of 533.35 full-time equivalent employees. MLA Lindsey: I thank the minister for that. So, I guess, I'm looking at a chart that's provided earlier on in the book, page 9 it's shown as.

It talks about core staffing 2023-24; looks like 533.35 full-time equivalents and the previous year was 518.25 full-time equivalents. So can the minister tell us where those positions have been added? Mr. Nesbitt: As the member will see there, we had an increase of 15.1 full -time equivalent employees for '23-24, and they're all in the Parks and Trails division. MLA Lindsey: Thank you for that. So they're all in the Parks and Trails division, so can you give us some kind of breakdown as to what

1920 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2023 those positions exactly are –that–is it, like, con serva- tion officers or is it people that are out chopping fire- wood, just so we have an idea of where exactly it is that you've added staff? Mr. Nesbitt: Not reflective in the 15.1 increase in Parks and Trails is, we have 7.5 full -time equivalent seasonal positions, too, t o staff yurts at Childs Lake and the Nutimik museum and to be park ambassadors We have six full-time FTEs in–to implement the new park strategy.

Two of those are for help with the capital projects over our planned capital expansion here, and in our endowment fund project. And we also have a couple for creation of strategic leadership positions for the division. We have a few more doing marketing on branding, data analytics and statistical analyzing. We have two for park host and Indigenous part - nership relations. We have a standards and training co-ordinator.

We have a senior park interpreter for Indigenous programming, and we have a head of recrea- tion that's going to lead strategic planning and policy development for directing outdoor recreation pro- gramming in our parks. MLA Lindsey: I thank the minister for that. So, some of the titles that he's given were–there's no people hired. There was numbers associated with them, others there was not. So, can the minister give us that information as to how many of each position that he's listed have –are new hires? Mr.

Nesbitt: I just want to reiterate that these are new positions–15.1 new full-time equivalent positions. * (15:30) You wanted numbers for each particular position.

Well, in the p arks strategy capital and co -ordinating permissions in parks, there's six new full -time FTEs in there; 2.1 for strategic leadership positions to enhance our–to lead projects, basically, from start to finish and work with our stake holders, Indigenous communities and other levels of government; we have one that's the marketing and brand lead for promoting provincial parks' brand, to liaise with Travel Manitoba, regional destination marketing organizations, conduct market research; we have one to take a look at all of our data and gain new insights into client behaviour, better forecast demand for services and potential impacts to revenues and help us measure all that; two full-time equivalents as park hosts and Indigenous partnership relations, like I said; one for park standard and training co- ordinator; one for senior park inter - preter for Indigenous programming; and one head of recreation.

Those positions are all in the process of being classified infill. MLA Lindsey: Unfortunately, I can't quite write that fast, so I'll have to go back and review Hansard to grill the minister further on these positions. So a lot of these positions are not in- the-field type; they're more the management end of things that is dealing with different things. It's not people actually in the park. The minister did talk about some 7.5 seasonal positions. Is that new positions or is that positions that come up every summer type of thing, or every season, depending on what the season is? Mr.

Nesbitt: Yes, I'm pleased to confirm that the 7.5 seasonal positions are new, on top of what we've had in the past. Again, they are to, you know, staff yurts up at Childs Lake and work at the Nutimik museum and also as park ambassadors to focus on customer service for our park clients at some of our busiest parks. As far as the other positions, I think that, you know, we're still in the process of determining where those positions will be in Manitoba. I don't want you to get the opinion that they're all going to be at the head office here in Winnipeg.

As I said for some of them, I mean, they're going to be out and about. For example, an interpreter for Indigenous pro- gramming may be out throughout Manitoba at parks, visiting parks and working on programming in parks. Our head of recreation, I mean, they're going to plan outdoor recreation in parks, so it would lead me to believe that they're going to be out and about in the parks, liaising with staff in parks to help them make the parks a more attractive and better place to be. MLA Lindsey: So the minister's indicated that there's 15.1 new positions, given as kind of a breakdown of what they are.

So, have these positions been filled yet? Have those people been hired or are those positions yet to be filled and are presently sitting vacant? It would appear that the minister's not quite sure where some of them are going to be stationed, or specifically what, maybe, their roles were going to be.

April 26, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1921 So if the 'mina' could–minister could expand on that a little bit so that we have a better understanding of just where these positions are going to be and what they're going to be, that would be greatly appreciated. Mr. Nesbitt: As the member will appreciate, the new fiscal year started April 1st. These are 15.1 new positions for this year; we're currently in the process of classifying them, getting these positions ready to put out there for applications.

We're going to under take recruitment and, you know, work is still under way, like I said, as to the best use of these positions in terms of location and where we get the best bang for the buck with the positions we have, to ensure that the –that we create the best possible visitor ex perience for Manitobans when they're visiting provincial parks. That's the No. 1 goal of these new positions, is to help with visitor experience and to help us with our capital expansion plans in terms of more facilities in parks–modernized facilities.

And so, I just ask the member to–just to under - stand that, you know, in gov ernment you have to classify these positions, you have to advertise them, of course, and then there's a selection process. So, that's all under way now; we hope to have them in place–obviously our park season is pre dominantly in the summertime, so we need to have these pos itions filled here in the next short order. MLA Lindsey: So, I'm not sure–all the parks may not be the same, but I believe a goodly portion of them, May long weekend is kind of like opening season.

And the minister hopes to have some of these positions in place to assist with parks this season, and yet none of the positions have been filled. The minister hasn't even deter mined for sure what these positions are going to be, doesn't know exactly what they're going to get paid at yet and has to go through the entire hiring process before anybody actually shows up on the job. So, any thoughts the minister might have on when all of this that he's just explained will be accom - plished? Will any of these positions actually be in place this year? * (15:40) Mr.

Nesbitt: Well, I certainly want to assure the member that we're doing our best to get these posi - tions filled. They were just approved in the budget, like I said. We have to classify them, we have to advertise and we're recruiting. Obviously, we want the seasonal positions in place as quickly as possible. They're the ones that are out in the field immediately. A lot of the other positions will interact with stake - holders and things like that. So, I mean, we're doing the best we can on them.

I would cert ainly hope that the member would be excited that we've added 15.1 positions to our staffing, rather than cutting staff. You know, we're adding staff to create a better experience in the parks. So, just ask his patience, in terms of hiring. I think he understands the labour shortage in the world, not just in Manitoba here. We're competing against a lot of other entities looking for employees and we need to go through the proper procedures of government to get our employees and just want to, you know, to tell the member my department's certainly doing the best they can to fill these positions.

MLA Lindsey: I appreciate that the minister may be doing the best he can. I just wanted to make sure that we understood that these 15 positions don't presently exist with human bodies doing the work, that that's somewhere down the road and it –some of them may happen soon; others, who knows when–if by the time you go through the hiring process and all the rest of that stuff, it could be in time for park season this year, it might be sometime this fall, it might be next year.

So, I just wanted to be very clear that when I look at the Estimates book and it shows that there's 15.1 more full-time equivalent positions, those positions are on paper only at this point in time. There's nobody in those positions. There's no extra people been hired. The rates of pay haven't been established. The duties for those positions may or may not be established yet. And, certainly, the hiring process, I understand, does take some time to accomplish that.

I just want the minister and anybody who may be listening or follow- ing along understand that those positions are not actual new hires at this point in time. They're proposed new hires. Mr. Nesbitt: Yes, I just–I think I want to be clear to everybody here today, and people listening, that these positions were improved in Budget 2023; 15.1 new positions. We're currently looking to fill these positions as quickly as possible. Like you say, we're going through the process, you unde rstand the process of government. And, you know, my hope is we'll fill all of these as quickly as possible.

MLA Lindsey: So, can the minister give us a com - plete list of all the current vacancies and include in that list which de partments are respon sible for those vacancies?

1922 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2023 Mr. Nesbitt: So, I can go through the five different de- partments here and give you the number of vacancies as compared to, you know, our full-time equivalents. The Finance and Shared Services division: there's 22 full-time equivalent positions.

We have six vacancies; The Stewardship and Resource Dev elopment division: we have 90 full -time equivalents and we have 32.4 vacancies; The Resource Management and Protec tion divi- sion: we have 207 full -time equivalents and we h ave 42.45 vacancies; The Manitoba Wildfire Service: we have 58.2 full- time equivalents and we have 12.55 vacancies; and In the Parks and Trails division: we have a 156.15 full-time equivalents and we have 15.9 vacancies. MLA Lindsey: I thank the minister for that information. So, some of these numbers are reasonably high, like 42.5–or, 42.45, excuse me–vacancies in a depart- ment.

Is it the minister's in tention to fill all of these vacancies, or they plan to leave a certain percentage empty? Mr. Nesbitt: Well, certainly, you know, in order to– you know, to fully implement all of our resource management and things like that, we need these full - time equivalents or we wouldn't have them. So certainly we're trying to fill all these positions as quickly as possible. You know, at any give time, there's likely a few vacant and we're trying to actively fill them.

Work is under way all the time with human resources to–you know, to advertise, interview and try to fill these positions. * (15:50) But, lik e I said before, there is a, you know, worldwide shortage of employees and, you know, some of these positions are specialized positions, either in the wildlife area, fisheries area, you know, the finance and shared services area. We're competing with a lot of different entities for employees, and, you know, so, again, like I say, our de partment certainly wants to see all these positions filled, and we're working with human resources to do that.

MLA Lindsey: I ap preciate what the minister's saying. Can he tell us, then, how long these vacancies have been in place? How many years? Can he give us the number for the last couple of years for comparison's sake? Has it gone up? Has it gone down? Has his efforts since he's been the minister to get these positions filled actually accom plished what he said he's trying to do? Mr. Nesbitt: Yes, I've been told that about half of the employees have become–half of the positions have become vacant in the last year.

Like I say, work is always under way to fill positions as they become vacant, but, you know, and we're doing the best we can. So that's– MLA Lindsey: Well, thanks for that. I find that answer somewhat troubling that the majority of the vacancies that the minister is talking about have occurred in the last year. Seems that there's –must be a reason why that's happening. Is it everybody all of a sudden reached retirement age and left or is there something else going on? Is it shifting the department around that caused upset? There has to be some reason.

Has the minister identified the reason why some pretty large vacancies, in some key positions, by the looks of it, within his department? Mr. Nesbitt: I don't think that gov ernment is any different from major companies that always have attritions with employees coming and leaving –or coming and going. You know, some of them may be to retirement. Some may be losses to private industry. Like I say, we're actively trying to recruit, and, you know, there's certainly no intent on our part to leave these positions vacant.

We encourage people to apply for these posi- tions, and, you know, we run competitions all the time, looking for these positions–looking to fill these positions. So there's no big secret here as to why people are leaving or anything. I mean, we are–baby boomers are retiring, so I would assume that that would be a large portion of people retiring. And, again, with the world- wide labour shortage, it's just not as easy to recruit people. Sometimes you can run competitions and not get anybody applying, and you've got to run them all over again.

So, I think that to try to put a finger on why we had, you know, 50 vacancies over the past year, it's just not possible to put our finger on why we have those vacancies. But we're actively recruiting to fill those positions. MLA Lindsey: So then, perhaps the minister could give us a breakdown of the last few years of how many vacancies were year by year, going back, I don't know, five years or something.

April 26, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1923 If what he said earlier was that most of these posi- tions became vacant this year, does that mean every year prior to that there was less vacancies, less attrition? If, as the minister suggested, that it's got to do with baby boomers, perhaps, that we know they were getting towards retirement age.

So, what steps were taken, as far as succession planning, if you will, to ensure that we had people in the employment pipeline getting trained, getting qualified, ready to assume positions when we knew that poten- tially we were going to have a lot of openings, if that's what the minister's suggesting? Mr. Nesbitt: Certainly, the staff we have, we're investing in training our staff, you know, and ensuring they're the best–can be the best possible people in the roles that they have to perform here in the province. We don't operate a training academy.

I think the member was suggesting we should have people in the pipeline ready to jump in and fill positions. Unfor - tunately, it doesn't work that way. I mean, we don't have people sitting on the sidelines ready to come into government when we need them. Thus, the ongoing recruiting aspect, you know. I think that the member will recog nize that we went through a couple years of COVID. I mean, that was an issue, too, in terms of recruiting. You know, people were hunkering down instead of going out and having jobs. They were leaving jobs, things like that.

So, you know, we appre ciate all the employees we have in our de partment and we're certainly–work with the employees we have to ensure that they have great working conditions and are well taken care of. And, like I say, we're certainly trying to run com- petitions and recruit people as quickly as possible to become staffed as fully as we can. MLA Lindsey: While I thank the minister for that, he's referred it to being similar to a private industry that may have recruitment issues.

But most–although I shouldn't say–a lot of private industries would recognize that they need to start the hiring process and start training people, even at the entry level, so that people can keep moving up. But that doesn't seem to be what's taking place here with all these vacancies. * (16:00) The other thing I asked the minister about was what–kind of, the vacancy look like going back for five years or so, even prior to th e pandemic, where there–these large vacancies, the minister said that most of them just became vacant in the last year.

The other question, I guess, that comes out of that is, has the actual budgeted number of full -time equivalent posi- tions in each of those areas been reduced? Mr. Nesbitt: I think that you will note by the budget documents that there's been no decrease in full -time equivalent employees year over year. In fact, there's been a 15.1 full-time equivalent increase in employees. We continue to recruit all the time, whether they're entry-level positions or senior positions, within our de- partments. The recruitment effort continues. We encourage people to apply.

It's–again, we want our de- partment staffed up as fully as possible. There's no intent to leave positions open on our part at all. It's fill as many as we can; get the people working in all our departments to ensure Manitobans have a great experience. MLA Lindsey: Something that the minister said at some point earlier in time about conservation officers, that there was a number of them that were hired, were–hired maybe isn't the right word, but were some- where getting trained so that they could be hired. Perhaps maybe the minister could talk about that a little bit.

Is there people actually getting trained so that they can become con servation officers, or is that a number like this 15.1 that's going to be someday? Mr. Nesbitt: I'm certainly glad to see the member's newfound interest in conser vation officers here in Manitoba because, for the longest time, they were, I don't know what to say, treated as second- class citi- zens, but they certainly weren't put up as the true active third largest law en forcement agency in Manitoba that they are.

So, I appreciate his interest in conservation officers because I have a real passion for increasing our con - servation officers here in Manitoba and ensure that a lot of the offices that had to be closed because lack of staffing perhaps can be opened here in the near future once we–once our training and recruitment ramps up even more. We currently have nine conservation officers hired. They are–they were hired at the beginning of April. They're heading out to the Western Canadian Law Enforcement Academy in Lac La Biche, Al berta, for training in mid-May.

It's a six - to eight-week course, which we then expect that these nine will be back here in Manitoba and posted to various positions around the province. MLA Lindsey: I'm sorry that my line of questioning seems to be upsetti ng the minister a little bit.

1924 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2023 Certainly, I've never had anything but the utmost respect for conservation officers. I had a brother -in-law that was a con servation officer, who actually died in the service being a co

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	42-5-48
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	42nd 5th hansardpdf 48.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	860c9cc0e38393b971c15f385b5fc7cb4bc2dfa2

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