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September 27, 2016

41st Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2016-Sep-27 (PDF)

L008 - Tue 27 Sep 2016 / Mar 27 sep 2016

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Tuesday 27 September 2016 Mardi 27 septembre 2016

Orders of the Day

Time allocation

Introduction of Visitors

Oral Questions

Energy policies

Hydro rates

Privatization of public assets

Privatization of public assets

Hydro rates

Privatization of public assets

Privatization of public assets

Correctional facilities

Hydro rates

Domestic and sexual violence

Senior citizens

Hydro rates

Student assistance

Immigrant services

Hydro rates

Correction of record

Tabling of public accounts

Members’ Statements

Men’s Cancer Health Awareness Month

Durham Region Employment Network

Walk a Mile in Her Shoes

Ontario Federation of Snowmobile Clubs

Biblioasis

Kingston Multicultural Arts Festival

Sekou Kaba and Erika Seltenreich-Hodgson

Student assistance

Bhayana Family Foundation Awards

Reports by Committees

Standing Committee on Government Agencies

Introduction of Bills

Restoring Planning Powers to Municipalities Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 sur le rétablissement des pouvoirs des municipalités en matière d’aménagement du territoire

Domestic and Sexual Violence Workplace Leave, Accommodation and Training Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 sur le congé et les mesures d’accommodement pour les employés victimes de violence familiale ou sexuelle et la formation dans le lieu de travail

Burden Reduction Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 sur l’allègement du fardeau réglementaire

Statements by the Ministry and Responses

Child care

Private members’ public business

Opposition Day

Energy policies

The House met at 0900.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Good morning. Please join me in prayer.

Prayers.

Orders of the Day

Time allocation

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: I move that, pursuant to standing order 47 and notwithstanding any other standing order or special order of the House relating to Bill 13,

An Act in respect of the cost of electricity, when the bill is next called as a government order, the Speaker shall put every question necessary to dispose of the second reading stage of the bill without further debate or amendment and at such time the bill shall be ordered referred to the Standing Committee on Justice Policy; and

That the Standing Committee on Justice Policy be authorized to meet on Monday, October 3, 2016, from 8 a.m. to 10 a.m. and from 4 p.m. to 6 p.m. for the purpose of public hearings on the bill; and

That the Clerk of the Committee, in consultation with the committee Chair, be authorized to arrange the following with regard to Bill 13:

—Notice of public hearings on the Ontario parliamentary channel, the Legislative Assembly’s website and Canada NewsWire; and

—That the deadline for requests to appear be 3 p.m. on Friday, September 30, 2016; and

—That witnesses be scheduled to appear before the committee on a first-come, first-served basis; and

—That each witness will receive up to five minutes for their presentation, followed by nine minutes for questions from committee members; and

—That the deadline for written submissions be 6 p.m. on Monday, October 3, 2016; and

That the deadline for filing amendments to the bill with the Clerk of the Committee shall be 4 p.m. on Thursday, October 6, 2016; and

That the committee be authorized to meet on Wednesday, October 12, 2016, from 10:30 a.m. to 2:30 p.m. for the purpose of clause-by-clause consideration of the bill; and

On Wednesday, October 12, 2016, at 1 p.m., those amendments which have not yet been moved shall be deemed to have been moved, and the Chair of the Committee shall interrupt the proceedings and shall, without further debate or amendment, put every question necessary to dispose of all remaining sections of the bill and any amendments thereto. At this time, the Chair shall allow one 20-minute waiting period pursuant to standing order 129(a); and

That the committee shall report the bill to the House no later than Monday, October 17, 2016. In the event that the committee fails to report the bill on that day, the bill shall be deemed to be passed by the committee and shall be deemed to be reported to and received by the House; and

That, upon receiving the report of the Standing Committee on Justice Policy, the Speaker shall put the question for adoption of the report forthwith, and at such time the bill shall be ordered for third reading, which order may be called that same day; and

That, when the order for third reading of the bill is called, one hour of debate shall be allotted to the third reading stage of the bill, apportioned equally among the recognized parties. At the end of this time, the Speaker shall interrupt the proceedings and shall put every question necessary to dispose of this stage of the bill without further debate or amendment; and

The votes on second and third reading may be deferred pursuant to standing order 28(h); and

That, in the case of any division relating to any proceedings on the bill, the division bell shall be limited to five minutes.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Mr. Naqvi has moved government notice of motion number 1.

Mr. Naqvi.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: Thank you very much, Speaker, for recognizing me to speak on this motion.

Speaker, as you recognize, Bill 13 is an important and necessary piece of legislation that would, if passed, put in place an 8% rebate on electricity bills for eligible customers. The legislation creates a requirement that the rebate be provided but, after its passage, there will be more work required to implement it by January 1, 2017. That is why, with a January 1, 2017 implementation target date, there is pressing need to provide local distribution companies and other entities responsible for delivering the rebate to consumers with the details on implementation in order to make the necessary adjustments to their billing and customer information systems.

Providing local distribution companies with program certainty and additional time to implement the 8% rebate program will facilitate a smoother transition on January 1, 2017, and ensure that Ontario consumers receive the 8% rebate—in other words, a tax cut—in a timely fashion. Therefore, there’s a pressing need to advance Bill 13 to ensure that all local distribution companies across the province have the time and information required to deliver on the government’s intended rebate by January.

That is why the Minister of Energy moved a motion for unanimous consent to expedite this bill through the legislative process. Unfortunately, the opposition voted against this measure to provide real cost savings to Ontarians.

I urge all members to support this motion and help pass this bill as soon as possible.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Further debate

Mr. Jim Wilson: I just want to begin by saying what Peter Kormos would have said in response to the government House leader’s remarks just a minute ago: Horse feathers.

Every LDC—local electricity distribution company—knows that by January 1 they’re to be prepared to give this relatively small band-aid solution to the people of Ontario in the form of the 8% rebate. I just remind you, Mr. Speaker, and the people out there, that they just cancelled the 10% clean energy discount, so you’re no further ahead. And of course, with cap-and-trade, there’s another couple of hundred dollars a year coming your way, at the very least. I think the government is actually, once again, lowballing the effect of cap-and-trade on the pocketbook.

But I want to talk in general terms about the effect of high energy prices on the people of Simcoe–Grey, the people who I represent. I’m very happy to stand here and advocate on their behalf. I say “advocate,” because the residents of my riding, just like people in communities all across Ontario, are struggling to pay their electricity bills. They need someone to speak up on their behalf and I am, and the members of the PC caucus are, very happy to do so.

I’ve been here at Queen’s Park for just over 26 years now and this electricity crisis is the number one issue I hear about in my travels. Whether I’m in Collingwood running errands or grabbing a bite to eat at Nan’s restaurant on the main street of Alliston, people tell me they dread finding their electricity bill in the mail when they come home at night. They come into the house and, with great trepidation, open the envelope to see what the amount due is for the latest billing cycle.

Then there’s the comment I received from Ms. Jenny Pilbeam-Harting, who told me, “My last month’s bill doubled. We try and conserve where we can, i.e., not cooking, turning lights [off] or doing laundry after 7 p.m.” But, as Ms. Pilbeam-Harting explained, the cost of electricity still cuts into what she has to spend for other important family needs such as groceries. She states, “It is becoming ridiculous and expensive to live here in Ontario.”

Edel Sykora, who used to live in Wasaga Beach, told me about her heartbreaking situation. She said, “I had to move out of Canada most of the year as I cannot retire on what I get on pension. It’s too expensive. I was never unemployed. In fact, I had a small business and paid faithfully my taxes and remunerations.”

Lori Murray-Keenan, like so many other Ontarians across this great province, has just taken on a second job to help pay the bills. “All we do is pay bills and [buy] food and try to get new shoes and clothes for three kids,” she told me, adding, “It’s a joke living here in Ontario.”

Imagine that, Mr. Speaker: someone saying that it’s a joke living in Ontario. There was a time when Ontario was the envy of Canada. Well, no more. Thanks to the Liberal government’s flawed energy policies, people are really hurting. These policies are driving away jobs and people.

Shauna Jordan tells me her hydro bill was $821 last month, which she says is “seriously unaffordable.” I certainly agree with that. Electricity rates in Ontario are seriously unaffordable indeed.

Adam Hawboldt, like thousands of people in the province, is trying to conserve energy but is frustrated by his monthly electricity bill: “[My] hydro bill is too much. I have nothing on but a well pump, hot water tank, and dryer, as big draws for a family of four.”

Ian Chadwick, who lives in Collingwood, tells me, “We try to conserve, to avoid using power during peak periods, to use low-energy appliances and light bulbs, but Hydro One punishes us by cranking the rates up and up and up again. It’s frustrating and expensive.” Mr. Chadwick asks a question that has been raised by me and many others in this House on several occasions: “Why does this government allow this abuse?”

Gwen Harvey-Gulley, who lives in Stayner, states, “I am sick of getting $300-a-month bills. This has to stop.” Well, I agree with that, Mr. Speaker, and so does every member of my caucus.

Sadly, the Liberals live in a fantasyland and don’t seem to care about what people are dealing with. Their solution was to offer a piddly 8% tax rebate on hydro bills, which is the subject of today’s time allocation motion. The problem is that rates keep going up, and so any rebate is soon eaten up. The government needs to come up with a meaningful solution. The rebate announced just a few weeks ago by the Liberals was a desperate attempt to look like they are listening to Ontarians. Well, they aren’t really listening, Mr. Speaker. Heather Prosser wrote to tell me the rebate offered by the Wynne government is just a drop in the bucket.

Mr. Speaker, our municipalities are struggling with these skyrocketing electricity rates as well. Like many in this House, I recently attended the Association of Ontario Municipalities conference in Windsor. As members know, this conference takes place each year and draws officials from across the province. The event is a chance to attend informative seminars, network and learn about the issues and challenges facing communities in Ontario. I always enjoy attending the conference, as it’s a chance to have some insightful one-on-one discussions with various mayors, councillors and municipal staff.

While I heard about a lot of challenges facing our communities, one matter that came up time and time again was the high cost of electricity. Not long ago, Ontario earned the dubious distinction of having the highest hydro rates in North America. Thanks to 13 years of Liberal scandal, mismanagement and waste, Ontario officially pays the highest residential electricity rates in North America, surpassing tiny Hawaii.

Bank of Montreal chief economist Doug Porter talked about the impact of rising energy prices in a recent interview with Global News. “It hurts small businesses; it hurts large businesses,” he said. “And it reduces their willingness to invest here in the province if one of their core costs is higher than in other nearby regions.” Porter cautioned that there will be serious harm to the province’s economy if double-digit electricity rate increases continue.

Ross McKitrick, professor of economics at the University of Guelph, in a recent guest column for the National Post, wrote about the high cost of electricity in Ontario. His column is very, very insightful, for people who want to read the whole thing. The column carried the headline, “Ontario Electricity Has Never Been Cheaper, but Bills Have Never Been Higher.”

“You may be surprised to learn that electricity is now cheaper to generate in Ontario than it has been for decades,” he wrote. “The wholesale price, called the Hourly Ontario Electricity Price or HOEP, used to bounce around between five and eight cents per kilowatt hour (kWH), but over the last decade ... it has trended down to below three cents, and on a typical day is now as low as two cents per kWh.”

McKitrick noted this sounds like great news but he added there’s one exception. He writes, “A hidden tax on Ontario’s electricity has pushed the actual purchase price” for consumers “in the opposite direction, to the highest it’s ever been. The tax, called the global adjustment,” or GA, “is levied on electricity purchases to cover a massive provincial slush fund for green energy, conservation programs, nuclear plant repairs and other central planning boondoggles. As these spending commitments soar, so does the GA.”

McKitrick aptly writes that thanks to how the Liberals have structured the electricity system, “costs will keep rising.” He adds the Liberals like to defend their energy policy by saying they did it for the children. He writes on that point, “These are the same children who are now watching their parents struggle with unaffordable utility bills. And who in a few years will enter the workforce and discover how hard it has become to get full-time jobs amid a shrinking industrial job market.”

It’s a very insightful

article that’s basically saying the fundamentals are fine in the system. We’re actually producing power at Niagara Falls, Bruce, Darlington, and on our rivers and streams at historically low prices. But because of the government’s mismanagement, waste and green energy policies, they’ve managed to make sure consumers pay the highest rates in all of North America—criminal indeed. If there was a bad decision to be made in the electricity sector over the last 13 years, the Liberals picked every bad decision.

The worst part, and the immoral part, is they’re sticking with it. They keep signing hundreds of millions of dollars every few months in these renewable wind turbine and solar power farms. It’s power we don’t need. It’s power we give away to Quebec and to neighbouring states like Pennsylvania, cities like Detroit and New York, states and cities that we compete with for jobs for our own people. Through our electricity system we’re actually subsidizing the hourly wage of jobs in the United States and in a bordering province. It’s shameful, Mr. Speaker.

The government puts its head in the sand, throws a little rebate out here and there, throws a program out here and there to try to patch things up, but they’ve got the fundamentals all wrong and they refuse, to date, to change the course they’re on.

Mr. Speaker, the question is, how much longer will Ontario families have to suffer? How much longer will they have to wait for this government to do something to address electricity rates that just keep going up? How many more jobs will we have to watch leave our province, jobs that, if they remained, would allow people to buy food for their family, pay for shelter, clothing and important items?

I’ll conclude by saying this government is leading Ontario down the path to ruin and is doing so by forging ahead with its maniacal energy policy. We can do better in Ontario. We must do better. I submit respectfully to this House that the government must take a long walk and come up with a new plan, one that’s fiscally responsible yet financially helpful to families.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Further debate?

Mr. John Vanthof: It’s always an honour to stand up in the House on behalf of the residents of Timiskaming–Cochrane, but today I’m also standing up on behalf of my caucus members and the people of Ontario and talking about the Liberal motion to basically cut off the people’s input on this hydro bill. It’s actually not a rebate on HST. It’s an amount of money equivalent to what the HST is, which could be pulled back at any time.

I’m filling the House leader’s role today. My issue is to talk about one of the tenets of democracy. We get elected to speak on behalf of our constituents on the issues that are facing their lives. One of the biggest issues facing the lives of my constituents and the constituents of my colleagues is hydro prices.

The government brings forward this bill that is supposed to address the problem, a problem which they have perpetuated for 13 years and a problem which they did also inherit from the Conservatives. But they don’t want to talk about it. They want the flashy press release. This bill does do some things. But they don’t want to let the other members—and I’ve had a few members speak to this, but a lot of members haven’t had that opportunity. A lot of members won’t have this opportunity because the government is once again limiting debate.

If you remember, the government, a couple weeks ago, was going to have this big reset. Remember how the first throne speech was Building Ontario Up, and the second one, the sequel, was “building Ontario up for everyone”? Both of them should have had in parentheses underneath: “but not listening to anyone but ourselves.” That’s what they should have had underneath.

Again, they’re demonstrating this. The way this system should work is that the members who want to speak to a certain bill should have that opportunity, and when members no longer wish to speak to that bill, then the bill would progress to the next step. People say, “Oh, that’s utopian. That’s never going to work.” It has worked in the past.

The government House leader today said—and I get along very well with the government House leader. We work together on many issues. I really disagree with him on some things, and this is one of them: that the government had a pressing need to get this bill done because the local LDCs had to change their paperwork. The government has a majority. This bill is going to get done, and the fact is that January 1—if people are going to see anything from this bill, it’s going to be by January 1.

There is lots of time to get this done. The government just does not like the democratic process. They do not like listening to the opposition, who have their duty to hold the government accountable. That’s basically what it is. They do not like listening to anyone but themselves. That is what this is all about.

Furthermore, not only do they not like listening to the elected representatives; this motion also lays out specific committee times and places where this committee is going to listen to the people of Ontario. The committee process is very important, because that’s when people who aren’t necessarily involved in the political process can actually enter the system and talk about their life experiences, and there are people across the province with some very severe life experiences about hydro.

What has the government done with this motion? I bet you can’t guess where all the committee meetings are going to be held.

Interjections.

Mr. John Vanthof: Queen’s Park, right here. I’m not saying that the people in Toronto don’t have issues with hydro. Certainly they do, and there should be hearings held at Queen’s Park.

But news flash, Speaker: People in rural Ontario and northern Ontario have had extreme issues. There are people are losing their livelihoods, people losing their homes. People are going back a hundred years because they can’t afford the basic necessities of life, one of which is hydro, because of failed policies from that government and from the previous Tory government.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Oh.

Mr. John Vanthof: Sorry about that, Yak.

Nobody, especially in this government, wants to talk about that. That’s why they’re introducing this motion to stifle debate, to stop people from talking, so that only their message gets out. That’s what they want: They want only their message to get out.

I don’t blame the government for that. The House leader is a good guy, but he’s a bit misleaded on that, because it’s—

Mr. John Yakabuski: “Misleaded”?

Mr. John Vanthof: Misleaded. I didn’t say “misleading”; I said “misleaded.”

The goal of this bill is, according to the government, to try to help people cope with the hydro system and cope with their egregious hydro bills. But the government doesn’t seem to want to let people talk to this bill. It doesn’t want members of the opposition to talk to this bill, and it certainly doesn’t want the members of the public to talk to this bill. Because if it was truly interested in the people of rural Ontario and the people of northern Ontario, they would have a committee hearing somewhere outside of Queen’s Park, somewhere a bit farther north than Steeles—Steeles is north, right?

But that’s the problem with this government. That’s why this hydro system has gotten so off base: because all of the decisions have been made in their little bubble here in downtown Toronto. The province is way bigger and way more complex than downtown Toronto. I now live here six months a year for this job and I have a great respect for the people who live here. They face huge challenges.

But the challenges here are different than in a lot of parts of the province, and this government fails to understand that, refuses to understand that, and they keep demonstrating it, demonstrating it again today by cutting off debate so people from all parties, specifically the opposition from other parts of the province, can’t voice their opinion. They’ve really demonstrated it, sadly, tragically, with this motion, by once again holding public hearings for an issue like hydro prices in Queen’s Park and only in Queen’s Park, thus shutting out the people from the rest of this great province.

That’s a travesty, and that’s why we will be voting against this motion.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Further debate?

Mr. John Yakabuski: We just wanted to make sure, Speaker, that the government—we wanted to give the government the opportunity to avail themselves of the opportunity to speak to this motion, but, as you can see, they have not. That’s why there was a delay in me standing. I just wanted to explain that to you, sir.

Speaker, the more things change, the more they stay the same. I know you’ve heard that before. Or in the words of the late, great Lawrence “Yogi” Berra, “It’s déjà vu all over again.” Here we are, a new session to the 41st Parliament, a new throne speech at which the Premier wanted to indicate a change in direction because they recognized halfway through the term that they needed to do something different.

This piece of legislation, while it didn’t have a number, was spoken about proudly in their throne speech as being a cornerstone of the new session—a cornerstone of the new session. And what do we get? We get a band-aid solution to high energy prices in the province of Ontario. They understand that now because the reception in their ridings, just like the reception in our ridings, has been pretty negative.

In fact, Ipsos released a poll today through Global News that over half of Ontarians—you’ve got to remember that includes the people of Toronto, who are not nearly as affected by high hydro prices as rural and remote Ontario—over half of the people of Ontario feel this is too little too late, a band-aid solution to a huge problem.

The government does not want to hear the opposition speak on this bill. It’s a cornerstone of their throne speech and they shut down debate after 10 minutes more than the absolute minimum that a bill can be debated in this House. Speaker, for the benefit of the viewers out there, a bill cannot be debated for less than 6.5 hours in this House, and we have six hours and 40 minutes on this bill. Ten minutes in excess of the six and a half hours and out comes a time-allocation motion: An iron curtain descends upon the House once again; the guillotine falls on the Parliament of Ontario.

We have had three members of our party, three members of our caucus, speak to this bill: myself, as the critic, the member for Lanark–Frontenac–Lennox and Addington and the member from Haldimand–Norfolk—three members. Has any member in this caucus had any complaints from their residents about the price of hydro?

Interjection: Absolutely, yes.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Well, do you think? So why are we shutting down this debate? There’s no need to move expeditiously on this legislation. It does not come into effect until January 1, 2017. In fact, to the point that the House leader of the government said that you need to give LDCs a chance to prepare, part of the legislation allows LDCs an additional six months to actually implement the rebate. An LDC, if it’s not prepared, can actually wait until July 2017 to implement the rebates. We’re almost a year away from that drop-dead date, but it’s time to drop the guillotine on this House.

There are only two bills before this House that are new. The affordable housing bill hasn’t even been debated, and the other bill, Bill 2, changes to the Election Finances Act, was a carry-over from the last session. So what is the need to end debate on Bill 13? It is because this government does not want to hear the horror stories from all across Ontario, from members on this side of the House, both opposition and third party. They don’t want to hear the horror stories of lives being turned upside down, of people at food banks, of people losing their homes, of 60,000 people having their hydro cut off.

My colleague from Simcoe–Grey spoke today about real people—not the fictitious people that the Premier likes to talk about in her throne speeches, no—real people with real hydro bills who are facing real trouble here in the province of Ontario. They don’t want to talk about the bill because they know they’ve got it wrong, but they can’t seem to figure out what else to do. They could start by supporting the opposition day motion this afternoon, which would give them at least the beginnings of trying to turn this mess that they’ve created around.

They like to talk about how there’s been a lot of money spent on the electricity system, but it’s on transmission and distribution and upgrading the system. The auditor, an independent, impartial officer of this Legislature, says that that’s not the case. It is not that the money has been spent on transmission and distribution. It has been spent on energy contracts for generation, excessive energy contracts that have blown the lid off the price of electricity and put it through the roof, beyond the reach of your average person.

This is Ontario. This is Ontario, the greatest province in the greatest country in the world, and we have people falling into what we call energy poverty. The province that used to have the most competitive, reliable, safe electricity system in the world is now putting people into energy poverty, and this government does not want to talk about it.

I know my colleague from Oxford wants to speak on this bill. I know my colleague from—

Mr. Jim McDonell: Stormont.

Mr. John Yakabuski: —Stormont–Dundas–South Glengarry wants to speak on this bill. I know my colleague the environment critic from Huron–Bruce wants to speak to this bill. I know my colleague from Prince Edward–Hastings wants to speak to this bill. I know my colleague from Leeds–Grenville wants to speak to this bill. My colleague from Nipissing wants to speak to this bill. My colleague from Parry Sound–Muskoka wants to speak to this bill. My colleague from Lambton–Kent–Middlesex wants to speak to this bill. My colleague from Haliburton–Kawartha Lakes–Brock wants to speak to this bill. I could go on, Speaker, but I think you get the point.

This is a problem that has been created by this government and has been exacerbated over many years. This is not new. You’d think that this government would at least have the respect, if not for the members on this side of the House—show us some respect for the people of Ontario who want to have their stories heard in this Legislature. The only way to have that story heard in this Legislature is through the elected representatives they send here.

There are people all across Ontario who have been ignored by this government, have been ignored by Hydro One, have been ignored by the utilities, have been ignored by the Minister of Energy or scoffed at by the Minister of Energy, and the only way for them to have their stories heard is through their elected representative. And now you are cutting off that avenue for those people, for their message to be heard. They cannot come to this Legislature. They cannot come to the floor of this Legislature and talk to the Premier. They cannot bring those concerns.

They have only one vehicle, and that is through us, their elected representatives.

We have had bills in this Legislature debated three times, maybe more in the old days, for hours and hours and hours, because the government felt it was of paramount importance to the people of Ontario. When you go around all across Ontario, the biggest complaint we hear is hydro prices. Would you not think that that would warrant something more substantial than 10 minutes over the minimum debate? This is almost unbelievable, that an issue of this importance, the gravity of this issue to the people of Ontario—and this government hasn’t changed a thing.

A new throne speech, and they are still absolutely committed to one thing: the salvation of the Liberal Party and cutting off debate in this House. You see, it always comes down to what’s in the best interests of the Liberal Party.

I could ask you, Speaker, but I know you can’t answer the question, because you’re sitting in the chair. But you know, and my colleagues on this side of the House know and my friends on the other side of the House also know—in fact, the folks at the Clerks’ table know, but of course, they can’t become involved in the debate either. But they all know that there is no issue that is of greater importance to the people of Ontario right now than the price of electricity that they pay in their homes and in their businesses.

What’s on the agenda? I say to the government, what is the need to end debate on this issue? Why? Why would we need to break down and shut down debate on this issue after barely the minimum amount of time? It is absolutely difficult to fathom, as an elected member of this Legislature, why they would do that, why they would send that message to the people. I get it, that they don’t want to hear from us, but we don’t speak for ourselves in this chamber. We are licensed to and asked to and given permission to speak for the people who send us here in the general elections or by-elections that we’ve been voted in on.

My colleague from Scarborough–Rouge River, Raymond Cho, the newest member of this Legislature—who do you think would have heard more in the last few months than Raymond Cho, member for Scarborough–Rouge River, on the price of electricity? Is he going to have a chance to debate this bill? No. He is not going to have a chance to debate this bill.

Had we known or even suspected that with the turning of this page and a new commitment to fair and honest debate on the issues affecting the people of Ontario in this Legislature—I would have ceded some of my time as the energy critic to allow the new member from Scarborough–Rouge River to speak to this bill. It is of such importance to him, as well as every other member of our caucus.

I could scarcely believe it when I saw this motion come forward. I know that these are the champions of the guillotine. These are the masters of manipulation when it comes to the operation and the standing orders of the House. These are the people who live by time allocation. But I really felt, with the new throne speech, that they were going to take a different tack, at least on Bill 13, because of the importance not only that it means to the people of Ontario, but the importance that they themselves have attached to it. A cornerstone of the throne speech—it is one of the last planks in the throne speech.

When you’re doing a throne speech, you want to build it up and finish with that crescendo as to the real meat of the matter, as to what you want the message in your throne speech to be. As the Lieutenant Governor delivered the Premier’s throne speech, it ended—or very close to the end, other than the platitudinal stuff—with the promise of new legislation for a hydro rebate.

Six hours and 40 minutes, with nary a fraction of the members of the Legislature having an opportunity to speak to the bill—I know there’s a tremendous amount of discontent in that caucus over there right now, a tremendous amount of discontent. There are members there who are ready to walk. There are members who are ready to walk because of what they feel this Premier is doing to Ontario. They’re very afraid for themselves in their own constituency because they’re bound by the Liberal noose to follow the Premier’s lead, wherever she takes them.

I don’t even know if you can get them anymore, maybe they have been banned—I don’t know—but do you remember that for dogs they used to have what they call a choker chain? Are they legal now? I don’t know if they’re legal anymore, but I think when you join the Liberal caucus, you have inserted on you a choker chain. If the Premier wants to pull you in one direction or another, she just tugs on that chain and takes you along. If you refuse, that’s when you start to gag.

Well, they’re gagging for two reasons: One, the choker chain is being pulled, but they’re also gagging at what they have to swallow from the Premier’s office, as members of the Liberal caucus these days, and having to shut down themselves on debate—shut down themselves on debate.

I look at the member from Northumberland–Quinte West and I look at the member from Glengarry–Prescott–Russell sitting here today. I know that in their ridings people are dissatisfied with their government and they’re dissatisfied with their energy policies, and they’ve had it up to here with high hydro rates. You know that I’m right. But you can’t even stand up and speak against it. You can’t even stand up and defend your constituents because of what the Premier’s office has told you to do. This is what goes on in Kathleen Wynne’s Ontario.

Because there is one goal in mind—three goals in mind: 2018, 2018 and, of course, 2018, the election of 2018 and, “How are we going to be able to hoodwink the people into re-electing us in 2018?”

That’s the message coming out of the Premier’s office. They have long since forgotten and do not care about what is right for the people of Ontario. They have long since tossed that right under the bus, along with a few of their members. They don’t care about what is right or good for Ontario anymore. They are in the third quarter of the football game, and they’re trailing. They’re now trying to come up with some kind of a strategy to try to somehow pull this one out of the fire.

That is the motivation for everything they do. From here on in, ladies and gentlemen all across Ontario, I say this with the certainty of being correct. From here on in, every word that is uttered from that side of the House, every piece of legislation that is tabled from that side of the House and every regulation that is tabled as part of legislation from that side of the House will be done with three goals in mind: 2018, 2018 and 2018.

And what they have done today—what they have done today—is part of that: shutting down debate on what they consider to be a cornerstone part of their throne speech and what we consider to be the most important pocketbook issue facing the people of Ontario today.

Why? Why are the members of this House having their voices muted when they want to stand up for the people that sent them here on their behalf? The Liberal Party thinks it’s just fine to once again bring down the guillotine on fair debate in this House. It is wrong, Speaker, and the people will not forget.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Further debate?

Ms. Jennifer K. French: I’m glad to be able to bring my voice and the voices of my constituents in Oshawa to this conversation. I’m disappointed, though, that I don’t get my full time because, with the government time-allocating it, we are stifling debate once again. But here I am speaking on Bill 13,

An Act in respect of the cost of electricity, and time allocation.

We’re talking about an 8% rebate and, Mr. Speaker, as you’ve heard, it’s an 8% rebate that never—this shouldn’t be a conversation because it never should have been on the bills in the first place. Six years ago, this government made a choice that the—

Interjections.

Ms. Jennifer K. French: I’m going to wait for the Minister of Energy to stop talking so I can hear myself. It would be great if he would listen. Thank you.

I’d like to share some thoughts from the people of Oshawa on your 8% rebate, the one that this government is asking us to be so thankful for. But the provincial portion of the HST never should have been put on the bills in the first place.

Six years ago we said that because electricity is essential. People need to stay warm; this is Canada. People need to function with the lights on and with the heat on. This is something that is essential. We’re talking about basic, fundamental affordability issues now. We’re looking at the next generation. We are seeing that their hope for their future is being once again diminished because they cannot afford to pay their bills. Families cannot afford to pay their bills.

Back in the day, Sir Adam Beck had a vision, and that was power for the people—power at cost—not power for profit, as this government has made their priority. Sir Adam Beck wanted to lead people into the light. He wanted businesses to be able to grow, families to be able to light their homes, and here we have a Liberal government that is literally leading people to the edge of poverty. That is their vision.

We’ve had so much conversation in this House about our rural communities and remote communities and their realities for their hydro costs—just an astronomical expense, astronomical costs and terrible situations.

I was curious to know what it looked like in my riding. We’re not rural. We aren’t remote. We are Oshawa. Like some of my other colleagues, I put out a call to collect hydro bills from my constituents. That was an initiative that I started because I wanted to know what their reality was. I wanted to know what the actual numbers were in my community.

It grew and grew and grew because—and you might find this hard to believe, Mr. Speaker—the Liberal members around my riding aren’t necessarily interested in collecting hydro bills and seeing real numbers. So I started collecting bills from other ridings, from my neighbouring colleagues’ ridings. It painted a very interesting picture and not one that would surprise you. Families were coming in with bills. Individuals and businesses were coming in with bills. The municipality brought in their street light bill. We’re hearing from charities and from industry.

It’s all part of this big, tangled, messed-up system that the government now wants to sell off, sweep under the rug, and wash their hands of.

These are not frustrated people who are coming in. They are desperate people. They are coming in in a panic. I’ll tell you, we’re tough. We’re Canadian. We’re not afraid of the winter. We’re not afraid of cold. But I will tell you that we are afraid of our hydro bills. That’s what it’s come to in Ontario: People are afraid of their bills. They are living in fear of what the winter is going to bring, how they’re going to heat their homes and how they’re going to pay these bills.

This is a government that blames and shames and tells them, “Unplug your phone chargers.” This summer, their Ministry of Energy said, “Unplug your phone chargers while you’re out playing Pokémon Go to reduce phantom power.” That was the helpful solution. Mr. Speaker, that’s not the problem.

The last Minister of Energy had been called “the Yoda.” It was like listening to Yoda; he knew so much about energy. If the government is sitting around at his feet having storytime about electricity, I thought I would bring some stories from my riding.

I’m going to talk about Jim. Jim writes: “Last summer, I was barely able to afford the hydro bills, but this year they are criminal. If they continue climbing, I will be forced to vacate Ontario, as some of my friends have already done. No government should be allowed to do what the Wynne government has done to the cost of hydro, and now she plans on screwing over the cost to even heat your home.”

Jimmy said, “To be fair, I do heat with electricity—baseboard electric—but I’m at my wit’s end regarding these exorbitant bills each month.

“It’s totally depressing. My wife and I live on CPP and OAS with supplement. Our total income in 2015 was only $30,817.

“As you can see, hydro accounts for 15% of our 2015 income.”

Another email: “An additional concern that can be included in the investigation of rising hydro rates is for individuals that must use medical devices at home and are left with the full impact of powering these devices..... I have been diagnosed with COPD. The treatment: an oxygen concentrator which has been installed in our home, and of course it requires electricity to operate.

“We make every effort to keep our usage as low as possible. Example: Our February 2015 electrical bill was $51.34. A year later, February 2016: $141.15....

“There should be some form of assistance for those who, due to health concerns, cannot otherwise reduce the usage of electricity.”

Gene said: “Enclosed please find our hydro bill for September 2016 from Gene (age 73) and Lynn (age 76). Living on a small pension, plus my wife has been on permanent oxygen for eight years. So we have to run the oxygen machine 24/7 and we have to run the central air conditioner system to help my wife breathe. We are finding our hydro bills are slowly pushing us into debt.”

This is the reality of individuals in our communities.

Kathy says, “As you can see from my attached hydro bill, it is absolutely horrendous!” It was $658.87 for the month of August, one of the worst that we saw in our office.

“When you calculate the costs here added to property taxes, insurances, food, house and car maintenance etc., you can see why our savings have been used up to supplement the low income. We are told that the government would like to keep seniors in their homes for as long as possible without having to be placed in nursing homes. If there is not enough income for the outlay of expenses, how could that ever be possible? Staying in one’s home is becoming a pipe dream!”

Eric is a full-time single parent working part-time. His son is seven years old and was diagnosed with ASD when he was three. He says, “Pertaining to hydro, as you can see, my budget plan amount is $233 per month and we only live in a cozy two-bedroom apartment. There is no one else residing with us. I find it very hard to be able to pay our bill every month. If we were not to be on the budget plan, we would be paying over $400 a month in the cold winter months.

“What hurts the most about these hydro rates is that I am no longer able to save for my son’s eventual college education. He is very bright. On a side note, I have never been late on paying my hydro bill or any bills for that matter.”

We had people walk in and drop their bills on my counter, Mr. Speaker, and they know that I’m planning to drop them on the Premier’s desk. We’re learning from them. We’re hearing their stories, we’re hearing their voices, and we’re seeing their panic and their distress.

Here’s one: “Our behaviour hasn’t changed at all, but our bills are up more than $100 from last year. Also, what the hell is global adjustment?

“We can’t afford to retire next year anymore. It’s not fair—there’s ways for homeowners to get a break ... but renters get stuck without any help.”

Another one: “We’re happy our air conditioner broke this summer! We sweated a lot but compared to our friends we actually saved money.”

People are glad that they have to be uncomfortable, that they can’t afford their bills? They’re relieved? What a mess.

Laura said, “I try to conserve, but why bother? Bills keep going up either way. I went to my MPP for help and he told me it wasn’t his jurisdiction.”

Jeff is a gentleman who came in with his walker and a whole bunch of bills. He had typed up everything, as well as giving me the bills. He wanted me to understand his reality. Jeff lives in a townhouse, about 1,100 square feet. Jeff does not have an air conditioner, he doesn’t have a game system, he doesn’t have satellite TV and he doesn’t have cable. He does have a stove, as many of us do. Jeff isn’t sure what to do, because this summer he only used one fan. Last summer he used two fans, but he tried to reduce his consumption by only using one fan, either the one in front of the TV or the one in front of his computer, to ration his power consumption. It’s the highest it has ever been—

Interjections.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): I’m doing my best to show my respect and listen to the speaker this morning. I would ask that the members on the government side—I appreciate that you may have some business you need to talk about, but I’m going to ask that you keep it down or else you can go out to the east lobby and discuss your business out there. All right? I appreciate that. Thank you very much.

Back to the member from Oshawa.

Ms. Jennifer K. French: Thank you. Isn’t it a shame that the government has to conduct business in the middle of this debate—the debate that they’re shutting down so they don’t have to listen to it? Argh.

Anyway, Jeff came in and was telling me about his reality with his costs in the summer, but he has a plan, Mr. Speaker, for the winter. His plan is he turns his thermostat down to 62 and he has a heavy housecoat and warm slippers. That’s his plan to make it through the winter.

That is what we’re reduced to. That is our reality here in Ontario. Shame on this government.

This is a government that has decided to sell off Hydro One. We’ve talked about that ad nauseam. I don’t think they’ve heard a darned word about it, but they’ve decided to remove oversight and bury the problem. This is a government saying, “Say thank you for your 8% rebate.” We’re glad to have any kind of reduction in cost here, but we will never be able to see the system fixed because they have removed the oversight. They’ve hidden it. They’re burying it so that we can’t actually untangle this mess. We can’t actually solve the problem.

They want us to say, “Thank you for the 8%,” for that 36 cents a day. How about you stop the sale and you buy it back? Because the people need to own all of it to be able to solve the problems—that you’ve designed, by the way, just to make a quick buck. They’re cutting off a revenue stream of predictable income for health care and education. It’s so short-sighted, not that we’re surprised—no accountability, no transparency and now, today, with time allocation, no debate.

I’ve had my say. There are piles more I want to say. I can’t because they’re stopping debate. This government is so out of touch. The Liberal reality seems to be a parallel universe; it really does.

I’ve got time for one more story. Doreen came into my office. Doreen had a binder of her hydro records from 1972, when Trudeau the first started making changes, and she started keeping track. It was her cost of power versus what she had to pay. Now, she has all these little boxes she keeps track of. It’s such a complicated system now, but Doreen has been keeping her eye on you; Doreen’s been keeping track. Feel free to give her a call. I’m sure she could actually educate you and give you some pointers. This is their reality and you are mucking with it purposefully.

I’ll say one more thing. When this government is voted out and they’re sitting in the cold at home, wondering why they chose to let this happen, and when they’re no longer elected and they’re looking back at all the good that they’ve done, they’re going to be very hard-pressed to find it because the harm that they’re doing now is massive and irreparable. Shame on them.

That is all I have to say, because they’ve stopped the debate for today.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Further debate?

Mr. Todd Smith: Thank you, Speaker, and good morning. I was actually on my way in through the north wing this morning at about 7:30 or quarter to 8, on my way for a nice omelette with the Egg Farmers of Ontario, when I ran into Jessica from our staff. Jessica said, “Todd, would you be able to speak this morning? Because the government is bringing in time allocation on Bill 13.” My jaw dropped, because I thought that when this government returned after losing the by-election in Scarborough–Rouge River—that Liberal stronghold, that seat that they’ve never, ever lost—I thought maybe they had changed their ways, that they were going to try some new tactics.

But here we are again with a time allocation motion on what was really the centerpiece of their prorogation of the Legislature a couple of weeks ago—this electricity bill. We have the same old Liberals again. Nothing has changed. It’s the same old tired government, the same old tired tactics, same bat time, same bat channel, as they say. Here we are. It’s another Tuesday morning at Queen’s Park. It’s yet another time allocation motion.

It is a government without any political capital, about as popular as a case of athlete’s foot, hanging on by its fingernails, and they’re cutting off debate in the Legislature on what was the cornerstone of their prorogation a couple of weeks ago, trying to ram through government legislation again.

We’ve been back for less than three weeks. This is our ninth actual sitting day here in the Legislature. The bill is less than two weeks old, and we’re already cutting off debate. It has been pointed out by our whip in the PC caucus that very few members have had the opportunity to speak to this bill. We just heard some stories from the member for Oshawa about people in her riding who are struggling with hydro bills. Every member of this Legislature has those stories. Every member of this Legislature was sent here by their constituents to bring those stories to the foot of the government so that they could make the changes necessary.

We were told that things were going to be different this time around from this government: that, like Scrooge having seen his tombstone, they would not be as they were, and that they had changed their ways—right up until they woke up this morning, though, and without notice sprung another time-allocation motion on the opposition parties.

Speaker, if there’s a right way to do things and an underhanded way to do things, this government doesn’t just pick the underhanded way; they give new meaning to the practice. It just wouldn’t be a government bill if it wasn’t time-allocated. It just wouldn’t be a Liberal bill if it wasn’t being pushed through without notice, so as to make the biggest mockery of this Parliament that they could possibly make.

We had high hopes for the new Minister of Energy. He was anointed—he was appointed—over the summer months. We thought that maybe he was going to be different. If I could, I’d like to quote the new minister responsible for this piece of legislation and this time allocation motion, when he was in Ottawa. He recently moved from Ottawa to Toronto, as you’ll remember; he was a member of the NDP caucus in Ottawa, and now he’s a member of the Liberal Party. It was back on December 3, 2012, and the minister described time allocation as “taking away democracy.” That’s the minister who introduced this bill, this motion today.

On February 14, 2012, on Parliament Hill, the minister stated, “Not everyone who has the opportunity to speak in the House can speak because of time allocation. Simply put, it is very bad if a member cannot speak on behalf of his or her constituents because of time allocation. We need to ensure that all voices are heard.” This is the minister that brought in the time allocation motion. That was on February 14, Valentine’s Day, of 2012.

Maybe he was in a lovey-dovey mood that day and felt that his constituents really mattered, because now what he’s doing by bringing in this motion is saying that constituents don’t matter, that the people of Ontario don’t matter, that the opposition members who were sent here to bring those voices to Queen’s Park don’t matter anymore.

And just to make it “three strikes and you’re out” for this minister, on June 12, 2013, the minister stated, “Mr. Speaker, like many on this side of the House, I am appalled at once again having to go through time allocation and having our time limited on such an important subject.” That was the minister who brought in this time allocation motion. Boy, I tell you, when you drink the Kool-Aid over there, you really drink it.

It’s amazing, Mr. Speaker—it truly is—how simply changing addresses from Ottawa to Toronto and being given a car and driver changes one’s perspective on limiting democracy and cutting off the debate—or not having one’s constituents heard, as the minister so eloquently put it when he spoke many times on the floor of our federal House on Parliament Hill. Apparently, when one becomes a Liberal cabinet minister, they make you trade in your conscience for your talking points.

Of course, none of this is actually all that surprising, unfortunately. The minister has been trying to—half-heartedly, it often seems—muster a hue and cry about why he wasn’t granted unanimous consent for the passage of this bill, because he’d actually like to prove to the Premier not just that he has drunk the Kool-Aid, but that he actually enjoyed the taste of that Kool-Aid. He would have preferred that we have no debate on government legislation at all.

The central reason that the Premier wiped the order paper, or so we were told in the weekend after prorogation, was that she had heard the people and she was going to offer hydro relief. But now that we have hit this signature piece of hydro relief that she intends to offer and we’re debating it, as members of the House are allowed to do, the government would prefer no debate on a matter so serious that the Premier felt that she had to prorogue Parliament to bring it in.

Of course, we know why the government would prefer no debate: because five years ago, this Premier and 20 of her cabinet ministers—20 of the members of her cabinet—voted against this very measure. This measure was brought forward by my colleague from Algoma–Manitoulin in this House, and all members on the opposition side—the official opposition and the third party—who were in the House at the time voted for that bill. The government, with Premier Wynne, who was a cabinet minister at the time, and 20 of her current cabinet colleagues, voted against that.

The Minister of Economic Development and the Attorney General actually took the extra step of taking time to specifically disparage that policy. And now they’re bringing it forward, trumpeting it as if it’s some kind of big accomplishment by this government.

However, now it’s necessary. It’s a matter so important that it required prorogation to be introduced and time allocation to be passed. We have come to this chamber to debate the government’s change of heart on the subject.

Members of the opposition are rightly irked that this government could have had this change of heart five years ago and saved the people of Ontario. If they had agreed with the motion brought forward by the member from Algoma–Manitoulin five years ago, think of the relief that hydro customers in this province would have experienced. But now, because their backs are against the wall—the Premier’s approval ratings are at 16%; her disapproval mark is almost 80%—times are tough and they’re scrambling to try to salvage what’s left of this government. They’re done.

Today they came out with another policy. Again, it’s too little, too late. They’re holding off on some of their renewable energy projects. The announcement just came this morning. They’re going to put the pause on those, probably until after the next election. But they’ll try to lead the people of Ontario to believe that they’re doing the right thing, that they’ve seen the light and that they’re not going to put these wind projects into the ground. Because they know what’s happened with all of the other wind projects that have gone into the ground: They’ve driven up the price of electricity.

And the Premier, on the weekend, had the gall to say in an interview that, “Yes, Mr. Interviewer, I know we spent $37 billion more for these renewable energy projects than we needed to, but it was worth it.” She said that. She clearly still doesn’t get it. They’re scrambling to try and find a way out of this mess but, really, they’re not going to do it.

I know the presidential debate was last night. I’d like to paraphrase former President Ronald Reagan: An issue is when the Liberals lose a by-election in a swing seat; a crisis is when the Liberals lose a by-election in a safe seat. But for Ontario, recovery won’t come until Kathleen Wynne loses her seat.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Further debate?

Mrs. Lisa Gretzky: It’s a pleasure for me to rise on behalf of my constituents in Windsor West. And thanks to time allocation, I may only have an opportunity to speak about my constituents, lump in the constituents from Windsor–Tecumseh and those from all over Essex county, since my colleagues will not likely get an opportunity to speak because the government is yet again trying to stifle debate, which I think points clearly to the fact that they don’t want to hear from the people of Ontario.

Earlier, when the Legislature resumed after our break—going back to our ridings for the summer—I had an opportunity to collect some bills from constituents all over Windsor and Essex county. I was able to send them across the floor and have them placed on the desk of the Premier and the Minister of Energy. That highlighted just a few of the people who are struggling in our area. I have hundreds more that have come in since then. We’re working very diligently to photocopy them, remove people’s personal information and to forward those to the minister and the Premier as well.

I can tell you that my constituents and those across Windsor and Essex county aren’t buying into this 8% rebate. They actually would like to see the 8% tax removed from the bill. It’s a tax that the government put on. It should never have been put on in the first place. You’ll hear the government side say that it’s what we’ve asked for as New Democrats; it’s actually not. So yet again, they are not listening.

People want the tax taken off. They recognize that when we say to take the 8% HST off, we know as New Democrats that that’s just the beginning. It’s not the answer. I wish that the government side would realize that an 8% rebate, which is very different and much more costly, actually, to administer, to rebate the 8%—it’s much more costly than to just take the 8% tax off.

People want the government side to listen and to stop selling off this asset, to stop selling off our public hydro. They do not have a mandate to do that. The people of Ontario did not vote for that. They’ve come forward time and time again and said, “We don’t want you to do it. We want you to stop, and stop now.” The government is not listening. Again, time allocation: They don’t want to hear from the other members in this House, and they don’t want to hear from our constituents. I think that’s really unfortunate because our constituents have something very important to say.

Come the next election, maybe that will be when the government side finally hears the message from the people of Ontario. When they’re no longer sitting over there, doing whatever they want to do and using their majority—abusing their majority, frankly—to do whatever it is that they want to do, then maybe they’ll get the message. I’m just very concerned, as are my constituents, that by the time the election rolls around, it’s going to be too late. We will no longer have ownership of a very important public asset, and we may find more and more people who are already struggling falling deeper and deeper into poverty.

That’s a good segue for me to talk about one particular group—not just in my riding; they serve the entire area—which is the Downtown Mission. This 8% rebate that the government is trying to ram through with very little debate—frankly, they’re not listening, so it’s not really a debate—will not benefit organizations like the homeless shelters, like the Downtown Mission, because they already get an 8% break. They already have a break on the tax. This is not going to help them.

What they need is for the government side to come up with real solutions so that when the mission is taking in people who need help—these are some of our most vulnerable citizens. These are people who had jobs and have lost their jobs. These are people who want to work, people who have skills. We have people who have health concerns, people who have mental health issues, who end up going to the Downtown Mission for help.

Now the Downtown Mission is struggling to help these people, and I think the mission summed it up quite nicely when the director there pointed out that the rate hikes that are in place currently are stopping them from being able to feed people. These are people who are coming, who are already financially insecure, who are struggling, who are reaching out for help, and the government is taking away the ability for organizations like the Downtown Mission to be able to feed them, to be able to put them in a safe place, in a warm place at night in the winter.

In fact, the mission is going to be struggling to keep the mission itself warm enough for these people when they come in from outside to look for a warm and safe place to stay. It’s really unfortunate that the government side doesn’t want to listen and that they don’t want to hear these stories.

I’ve had constituents write to me—not only did they send in their bills, but they’ve written letters. I have this interesting letter from a constituent. It says:

“Dear Ms. Wynne,

“Premier of Ontario,

“Yours to discover, right?” and then she goes on. I don’t have time to read the letter, but I will say that in some of the letters that I’m getting and some of the calls I’m getting, there are some pretty descriptive expletives that people are using as to what the government should do with their increased bills.

I think it’s important for the government side to not stifle debate, to listen to what all of us in this House have to say, and to listen to the voice of Ontarians and stop the sell-off of our public asset and really take measures to get the cost of hydro under control.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Thank you.

Debate deemed adjourned.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Since it is now 10:15, this House stands recessed until 10:30.

The House recessed from 1014 to 1030.

Introduction of Visitors

Ms. Peggy Sattler: It is my pleasure to welcome this morning Barb MacQuarrie, who is community director from the Centre for Research and Education on Violence Against Women and Children at Western University in London, and also Patty Coates, secretary-treasurer of the Ontario Federation of Labour. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Mr. Grant Crack: It gives me great pleasure to introduce a good friend of mine, Dr. Suzanne Filion from Alexandria in good old Glengarry–Prescott–Russell. She’s also director of operations at Hawkesbury General Hospital. Welcome, Suzanne.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Welcome.

Hon. Eleanor McMahon: I’d like to welcome to Queen’s Park today the family of our page captain, who happens to be from Burlington, Simone Flannery: her parents, Kari and Tom Flannery; her sister, Charlotte; great-grandmother Frieda Macdonald; her great aunt Barbara; her grandparents Lorene and Nick DiCorpo, Margaret and Arthur Fretz, and Beverly and Randy Pickard; her aunt Sarah Fretz; her second cousin Kelsie; and friends Claire and Gracie Ross. Welcome to Queen’s Park—the fan club.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): You’ve brought all of Burlington with you.

Hon. Marie-France Lalonde: It’s a great pleasure to introduce the page from Ottawa–Orléans who has been with us for the past week. Her name is Anna Hiemstra. Her grandparents came from Holland and she goes to St. Matthew High School. I welcome her. Thank you very much for being here.

Mr. Steve Clark: Now that he’s in the House, I just want to take this opportunity to wish the member for Elgin–Middlesex–London, Jeff Yurek, a very happy birthday.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Many happy returns of the day.

The member from Elgin–Middlesex–London in rebuttal.

Mr. Jeff Yurek: I want to thank the member from Leeds–Grenville for that welcome and happy birthday.

I have a couple of university students here who I just want to say hello to: Mikolaj Opolski, Sydney Petrucci, Stafford Shaddy and Victoria Mlynarczyk—did I get that right? Welcome to the Legislature today.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: I’d also like to wish someone a happy birthday today: Charles Sousa, our Minister of Finance. Happy birthday today.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Happy birthday.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Point of order.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Point of order, the leader of the third party.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: I seek unanimous consent for immediate second and third reading passage of Bill 23, Islamic Heritage Month Act, 2016, in time for Islamic Heritage Month, which is October in this year of 2016.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The leader of the third party is seeking unanimous consent. Do we agree? I heard a no.

Last call for introduction of guests.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I’m still standing.

Last call for introduction of guests. Seeing none, it is now time for question period.

Oral Questions

Energy policies

Mr. Patrick Brown: My question is for the Premier. Thank you for taking the PC caucus’s advice and cancelling any future green energy contracts. But again, let’s be clear: Just like the rebate announcement, today’s announcement is just too little, too late.

The government has plowed ahead for years, signing contracts for energy we simply do not need. The Premier has become the best minister of economic development that Pennsylvania and New York have ever seen, giving away our hydro at pennies on the dollar.

Mr. Speaker, the Premier was wrong on green energy. She was wrong on OLG. Will she complete the hat trick today and acknowledge the government was wrong on the fire sale of Hydro One?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please.

Premier.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Let me just go through the process here, Mr. Speaker. As this House well knows, we inherited an electricity system that had been badly neglected under the previous government. There were brownouts and blackouts and smog days that put our economy and our people at risk. We took that dirty, unreliable electricity system and we’ve made it clean and reliable. We’ve invested in it, and it’s now one that all of us can count on. We eliminated coal, the source of those smog days. That has saved $4 billion in health and related costs—$4 billion because of this clean grid.

As confirmed recently by the Independent Electricity System Operator—the IESO has said that our investments have secured a strong, steady supply of clean power. That is because of the investments that we have made and because of the decisions that we have taken.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary. The member from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Back to the Premier: Now with your back to the wall and on the road to Damascus, you’ve decided not to proceed with energy contracts that wouldn’t happen till well into the future. But what you’ve admitted to the people of Ontario, and what we’ve been saying for years, is that you’ve paid way too much for energy contracts all the way along. The people have been hurt by your contracting for that unneeded energy. The auditor has said $37 billion too much—that your energy contracts are the primary reason that energy costs in this province are too high.

So will you commit to no further contracts signed under this government for energy we don’t need, and will you once again stand up for the right thing to do and stop any further sale of the shares of Hydro One?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please.

A reminder: During debate, you put your question and answer through the Chair—only the Chair. In the event that it continues, I’ll stop and consider passing the question.

Premier.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Energy.

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: Thank you to the honourable member for the question.

I’m very pleased to be able to rise today and talk about our suspension of the LRP II program. We are suspending the 1,000 megawatts to make sure that we can find ways to continue to reduce rates for electricity consumers right across the province. Though the recently announced LRP contracts—I know the—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I’m quite prepared to move to what I did the last two days—Thursday and Monday. We’ll do it again if we need to. That will be my last discussion about heckling.

Carry on.

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: In terms of price—the member talked about price—the price contracted for solar power represents the lowest cost for solar projects that have been contracted in Canada to date. We have some of the lowest prices right across the country.

In terms of a plan from this party, they have no plan. They have no plan when it comes to energy. Down at that office, they don’t even know if he’s signing letters.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary. The member from Prince Edward–Hastings.

Mr. Todd Smith: Back to the Premier: Perhaps this change of heart has more to do with dollars for the Liberal coffers than it does anything else.

We have this gift from Adrian Morrow of the Globe and Mail this morning: an email sent from Chris Benedetti, one of the biggest green energy lobbyists in the province, to some of his clients, promoting a private fundraiser with—you guessed it—the Minister of Energy. The Premier told this House that all private fundraising events would be posted on the Liberal website. But when we searched the website this morning, there were no events listed for October 5 at the Peter Pan Bistro.

Given the minister’s announcement this morning affected no renewable contracts currently signed, I have to ask, will companies that have signed contracts be at this little get-together on October 5? And what is the Premier going to do about ministers violating her phony rules about fundraising from stakeholders and keeping those meetings secret from the public?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you. Start the clock.

Mr. John Yakabuski: At least he can share a cell with Gerry Lougheed.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): We will now move to warnings, and I’m not impressed with that kind of comment.

Minister?

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I’d like to thank the member for the advertisement for my fundraiser coming up that everyone knows about.

But let’s talk about fundraising. The MPP for Leeds–Grenville, on May 24, 2016, held a private fundraiser in Yorkville, marketing himself as the PC deputy leader and tourism, culture and sport critic. He also advertised Senator Bob Runciman and the chief opposition whip would be on hand. Cost? It was $1,300 for platinum supporters.

The MPP for Lambton–Kent–Middlesex is currently advertising—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Finish, Minister.

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The MPP for Huron–Bruce held a private fundraiser at the Rogers Centre: $600.

You know what? On this side of the House, we’re going to worry about making sure that we find ways to lower rates for consumers with the single largest electricity reduction bill in this province’s history. They don’t have a plan; we do.

Hydro rates

Mr. Steve Clark: My question is to the Premier. The government claims outrageous hydro bills are the price for a reliable electricity system. Try telling that to Brad Borland, a franchisee at Canadian Tire in Gananoque. In 2013, Brad spent $69,000 on hydro and had zero power outages. This year he’ll pay $120,000, a 42% increase. So what does he get for that 42% increase? Because there have been no investments in the Hydro One feed to Gananoque, he got seven blackouts. These outages cost him $50,000 in lost revenue and damages, and that’s just one business. The cost to the community was in the millions.

My question is, if the $10,000 a month Brad pays for hydro isn’t enough to keep the lights on, will the Premier tell me how much it will cost?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Energy.

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: As the members of this House know—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke is warned.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): And if I knew who that was, they would be warned.

Finish, please.

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: As the members of this House well know, the previous government left our electricity system in a state of disrepair. Our government spent more than a decade making it clean and reliable for Ontarians. We’ve already invested more than $15 billion in upgrading more than 15,000 kilometres of transmission—

Mr. Steve Clark: Seven blackouts. Seven blackouts.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Leeds–Grenville is warned.

Finish.

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: Yet in recent days, the opposition has begun to make some truly bizarre claims about our system’s reliability, pointing to planned outages or weather-related outages as evidence. Perhaps when the Leader of the Opposition talks about outages, he’s thinking about—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Supplementary? The member from Huron–Bruce.

Ms. Lisa M. Thompson: My question is to the Premier. A small business owner in my riding recently wrote to me about how she and her husband invested half a million dollars in energy retrofits to reopen a grocery store. I’m sure you would agree every community deserves one. Well, their bills started at $3,500 a month, but in two short years they have jumped to a staggering $6,000. The energy minister’s announcement today does absolutely nothing to reduce the electricity bills that people already can’t afford. It’s just a desperate ploy.

So what is the Premier going to do to make life more affordable for the people of Ontario today?

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: Our proposed legislation that we have before the House will actually make life more affordable for Ontarians. A 20% reduction for families in rural, remote and northern communities, like in my part of the province, will actually be a significant savings for many families. We are also seeing the elimination of the DRC. We are doing many things to help families. Even the OESP is there to help low- and medium-income families. They can actually apply for this program and see an additional $75 a month come off their bill.

When you compile all the stuff that we’ve done in the last few months, this is the single largest reduction that we have made for families when it comes to electricity bills in Ontario’s history. I’m very proud of what we’ve done and, unfortunately, they voted against it when we asked for unanimous consent to get this through the House.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary? The member for Nipissing.

Mr. Victor Fedeli: My question is for the Premier. Premier, your new talking points about reliability come from polling and have nothing to do with reality. The Blackout Tracker found that the number of outages increased by 275% just from 2012 to 2015.

Lake Talon residents in my riding experienced a 25-day power outage this spring. On their hydro bills, though, they were forced to pay the delivery charge for power they never received. Speaker, a month without the most basic necessities—in rural Ontario, without power, you can’t pump water or flush a toilet—and what did Hydro One tell them regarding the loss of all the meat they harvested in their fall hunt? “You shouldn’t be storing meat in your freezer.”

I ask, what does the Premier have to say about reliability to the people in Lake Talon?

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: Just last week, a dump truck hit a line near Windsor that caused a brief outage. Trees blown down by windstorms in Muskoka on one of the days in August caused some homes to lose power for the day. So if the opposition has suggestions on to how to prevent car accidents or weather, we’re all ears.

But in the meantime, we on this side of the House know what real outages are. We remember, in 2003, the broad-scale rolling blackouts which characterized the opposition’s management of our electricity system.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Finish, please.

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: These weren’t small outages; these were blackouts that were put forward by a government that didn’t invest in the electricity system and didn’t invest in generation and transmission. We have done that. We’ve cleaned up their mess and will continue to do that.

Privatization of public assets

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is for the Premier. Liberal insiders are telling the media that the Premier is in favour of helping to sell off Toronto Hydro. Is that true?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: The leader of the third party will have to speak to the mayor of Toronto and councillors if she wants to talk about Toronto Hydro.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: The Liberals are selling off Hydro One, and that means higher hydro bills. Now they’re helping to sell off municipal hydro utilities like Toronto Hydro.

We know from the FAO’s release, the Financial Accountability Officer’s release, that increasing bills are going to hit low-income Ontarians and northern and rural people the hardest. People can’t afford the sell-off of Hydro One, and they can’t afford the sell-off of their local distribution company either.

Are the Liberal insiders telling the truth that the Premier thinks it’s a good idea to privatize hydro and that she is “interested in helping make it happen”?

Hon. Brad Duguid: Who are the insiders? Name names. You’re making it up.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. The Minister of Infrastructure is warned.

Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: The initiative of this government to invest in transit and transportation infrastructure across this province is very important to the people of the province. It’s important to communities across the province. When we ran in 2014, we said that we were going to look at the assets of the government and that we were going to work to leverage those assets so that we could invest in new infrastructure that would be owned by the people of Ontario.

There are infrastructure projects going on across this province: roads, bridges, transit, hospitals, schools. There is building happening because we are making those investments. We cannot sit back and let infrastructure deteriorate. We have to make sure that we make those investments and the fact that Ontario is one of the leading jurisdictions for economic growth in the country has to do with those very investments.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Liberal insiders say that the Premier thinks helping to sell off Toronto Hydro would “deflect some public anger away from the Liberals” and their decision to sell off Hydro One. People are struggling to pay their hydro bills and every increase will disproportionately hit low-income and rural and northern families. But instead of making the government priority affordable electricity, the Liberals’ priority is to deflect public anger from themselves.

Why does this Premier continue to make decisions, to behave, to act in the best interests of the Liberals instead of the best interests of the people of this province?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I’m solely in politics to work to benefit the people of this province, to make sure that the people of this province have the education system that they need and the health care system that they need, that we rebuild the infrastructure that has served us for so many years but we know needs renewal, that people have a reliable electricity system, and that we move to make sure that it is as affordable as possible.

That’s what the initiative in the throne speech was about. It was about making sure that we take that provincial portion of the HST off electricity bills across the province, that we further help people in rural and remote communities to the tune of a 20% reduction and that we work with small and medium-sized businesses to make sure that they have a break, as well. That is about helping people in their lives every single day.

Privatization of public assets

Ms. Andrea Horwath: I can say that it really doesn’t show, if that’s the Premier’s goal.

But this question is actually to the Premier as well. People see that the Premier is making decisions that are about privatization, and those decisions are more based on the political interests of her party than what’s best for people. That is totally obvious. They’re based on deflecting anger. They’re based on political cover. That’s not what the people voted for. That’s not what the people asked for when they voted in the last election. People had hoped for so much better, and they are so disappointed in what they’re getting from this government.

My question is one that’s pretty straight-up: Will this Premier come clean and let us know whether or not she’s going to continue to facilitate the privatization of more of Ontario’s hydro system?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: The decisions that we make as a government are often very challenging, very complex. I said as a pillar of our plan that we would invest in infrastructure in this province, so we made a difficult decision.

It is actually kind of laughable that the leader of the third party suggests that somehow the decision around Hydro One was in our political interests. It was a challenging decision. It was a practical decision. It was not an ideological decision, but it was a decision that will lead to and is already meaning that we can invest in people’s lives by providing them with the transit and transportation options that they need, so they can get home to their kids, so that they can pick up their kids from child care, so that they can have time with their families that otherwise they would not be able to have.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. Be seated, please. Start the clock.

Supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Well, Speaker, what it was was the wrong decision. That’s what the decision was: It was the wrong decision.

People are worried about their future, and they’re worried about whether their kids are going to be able to build a good life here in this province.

But instead of making decisions that make life easier for people, the government is making it harder for people, especially low-income people, who feel the burden the hardest when it comes to their increasing hydro rates, and for rural and northern Ontario families, who are paying the very highest bills. The Premier’s only concern is to “deflect some public anger away from the Liberals.” Now, people expected—and, I have to say, people deserve—so much better than this.

Will this Premier commit to stopping any further privatization, whether it’s local utility corporations or whether it’s Hydro One?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: The leader of the third party knows full well that the decisions that are made at the local level around utilities are their decisions. Regarding the decision that is on the table in the city of Toronto, the leader of the third party will have to speak with the people at council and the mayor at the city of Toronto.

If the leader of the third party is asking whether we will stop investing in transit and whether we will stop investing in transportation infrastructure across the province, then no, we will not. Those investments are needed. They’re needed in order to create jobs right now, and that’s what is happening. There are thousands of people working across the province because of those investments. And those investments are necessary into the future, because if we are going to compete globally, we must have that modernized infrastructure in place. We’ll draw business and allow businesses here to expand. We’re not going to stop making those investments.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Speaker, the Premier is not being clear. She knows very well that she has a role to play in facilitating the sell-off of local distribution companies. She knows that she has a role there, and for her to suggest that she does not is not being up front with the people of this province.

People were surprised when the Premier announced that she was selling off Hydro One, because it’s not what they voted for. They didn’t vote to sell off local distribution companies either. Whether it’s Toronto Hydro or whether it’s any other local distribution company, people did not vote for privatization. They can’t afford to pay more just to give the Premier political cover and deflect anger away from her Liberal government.

Will the Premier stop all of the hydro sell-offs in the province of Ontario?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

Hon. David Zimmer: Boring.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The Minister of—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I was going to issue a warning, but maybe because of the response, I’m not going to.

I decided I’m going to issue the warning. The Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation is warned.

New question.

Hydro rates

Mr. Norm Miller: To the Premier: Hydro prices in Ontario are at a crisis level. Recently, Ian Colquhoun, the owner of Axiom Audio, contacted my office saying, “What is going on with Ontario electricity prices?” Axiom Audio is a manufacturer of world-class speakers and audio equipment. The business is located in Dwight. It employs 20 people in the town of 200 east of Huntsville. Axiom competes for business worldwide.

Ian sent me his hydro bill. In June, his cost for electricity was $973, but the delivery charge amounted to $2,127. The total cost of electricity for the month amounted to over 39 cents per kilowatt hour. And remember, this is June.

How can the Premier expect a rural manufacturing business to continue to operate in the province of Ontario with hydro rates that are so high and getting higher?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Energy.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. I made an omission and I apologize to the House. I will follow the two questions and two answers and come back to the Premier to answer the question that was put by the leader of the third party, should the Premier wish it.

Minister of Energy.

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: I’d like to thank the honourable member for the question. I hope the member told them about our plan with the ICI program that can save him up to 34% of his bill directly on the delivery charge. Right now, it’s important for us to ensure that businesses are aware of the savings that they can make, because our industrial electricity rates in Ontario are extremely competitive with other Canadian and American jurisdictions, with the prices in northern Ontario in particular among the five most affordable jurisdictions in North America. He can make savings of up to 34%. I do hope the honourable member will ensure that he lets those companies know.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary? The member from Haldimand–Norfolk.

Mr. Toby Barrett: Back to the Premier: I have a fellow in my riding, Walter Mueller Jr. He has installed energy-efficient appliances and lighting, new heating and air conditioning, and an on-demand water heater. He’s never home during on-peak hours. He does everything right, yet he gets a monthly electricity bill of over $400. The people want to know: Why is that?

This gets worse. Mr. Mueller’s family business, Springer’s Meats, pays 40 grand a month for electricity. Last year it was $30,000 a year—no increase in sales, but a 30% increase in expenses. Will the Premier please explain to this House how people can stay in business, let alone establish new businesses, with 30% annual hydro hikes?

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: I do thank the honourable member for that question.

When it comes to the individual’s home, there is an 8% saving coming to all families right across the province. But what makes this even more spectacular, and a significant savings for families, is that those families in the rural and remote areas of our community, and in the northern parts, can save 20%, with that money going directly on the delivery charge.

When it comes to the business component of the question that the honourable member asked, if this individual qualifies for the ICI program, they can save up to 34% on their bills. If not, if he’s a small business, he will also be receiving that 8% reduction, plus some of the other programs that we have out there.

We’re doing it for the families because we recognize that some families are having a difficult time. But do you know what, Mr. Speaker? We had to make sure that we built a safe, reliable and clean system after they left the system in tatters.

Privatization of public assets

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I’ll turn to the Premier for a response.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. The leader of the third party was asking whether I would intervene in decision-making at a local level in a unilateral way. I just want to comment that one of the reasons that I got involved in politics—and I know, actually, that there are a number of members who were municipal elected officials and mayors who had lived through the experience of having a provincial government that imposed decision-making on local governments, that amalgamated, that didn’t consult and that didn’t work with municipalities.

Mr. Speaker, I have a very different modus operandi. The members opposite talk about green energy. When I became Premier, one of the first things I did was to work with our Minister of Energy to make sure that we change the process around the siting of wind turbines. I believe in working with local governments rather than acting unilaterally at the provincial level.

Privatization of public assets

Mr. Peter Tabuns: My question is to the Premier. Today, Ontario’s Financial Accountability Officer reported that people living in rural and northern Ontario see more of each paycheque go to paying their energy bills. Low-income people spend three and half times more of their income on energy bills than the wealthiest Ontarians.

Selling Hydro One is only going to push those rates higher. Opening up local hydro utilities to privatization is only going to push those rates higher. For a lot of people living in rural and northern Ontario, or people living on a low income, they already feel like they’re at a breaking point, and if bills go higher, their kids won’t be able to afford a better life.

Will the Premier commit to no more sell-offs of the hydro system?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Energy.

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: I’d like to thank the honourable member for this question. Of course, I hope he’s referring all of the rural customers to the 20% reduction that we’ve brought forward in our bill.

But let’s not forget about all the other programs we have in place. We made sure that we got rid of the debt retirement charge. That’s no longer on the bills for our consumers.

We have six programs. The OESP is one that I would encourage the honourable member to encourage individuals to contact their local utility about.

But when it comes to the Financial Accountability Officer, Mr. Speaker, the FAO report this August confirmed that the average family in Ontario spends less on electricity than in every other province except British Columbia, and when it comes to total home energy costs, Ontario is in—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Of the two of you, one of you has got a warning, and the next one is out.

Finish, please.

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: What’s remarkable about these findings is that Ontario has already done the heavy lifting in modernizing our energy infrastructure and transitioning off coal generation. We continue to find ways to reduce costs for consumers.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Peter Tabuns: I can only think that the other side didn’t hear the question, so I’ll rephrase it. Over and over, people say they want the next generation to be able to build a better life. But for too many people, they feel like their bills are making that almost impossible. To quote the FAO, “Household home energy spending ... is a greater burden for lower-income households.” Rural and northern families and low-income families feel every increase.

Taking the HST off hydro is a first step, but it can’t be the only step to getting bills under control. Stopping the sell-off has to be the next step. Will the Premier commit to ending the sell-off of the hydro system?

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: We continue to find ways to reduce energy costs for consumers right across the province. Today’s announcement of suspending and cancelling the LRP II program will save families an additional $2.45 off of their bill.

In terms of broadening ownership of Hydro One, we’ve done that to ensure that we can continue to do what Ontario families want: to create growth and to create jobs. I was in the great riding of North Bay and in Kapuskasing to make announcements of infrastructure that is going into these communities, and that’s thanks to the broadening of Hydro One.

We will continue to do what is best for families, on this side of the House, while they just shake their fists.

Correctional facilities

Mr. Arthur Potts: My question is for the Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services. Intermittent sentences have existed in Ontario since 1972. These are sentences that convicted persons serve in periodic intervals, typically on weekends. Intermittent inmates can contribute to overcrowding in our correctional centres, beginning on a Friday night when they enter the system for the weekend sentences.

Ontario’s first dedicated facility for such inmates opened in Toronto at the Toronto intermittent centre in 2011, as part of the Toronto South Detention Centre. The minister was in London recently for the opening of Ontario’s second dedicated facility for offenders serving intermittent sentences.

Through you, Speaker, can the minister please tell us more about this new facility and what it will mean for Ontario and, in particular, for the Elgin–Middlesex–London area?

Hon. David Orazietti: I want to thank the member from Beaches–East York for the question. I was certainly pleased to speak recently at the opening of our new 112-bed regional intermittent centre on the grounds of the Elgin-Middlesex Detention Centre in London. It is, indeed, the second intermittent centre built in Ontario and part of our regional intermittent strategy across the province.

The goal is to ease pressures in relation to capacity when inmates enter facilities by building stand-alone intermittent centres on the site of existing facilities. However, it also has a number of other benefits, including increased security by reducing the potential for contraband and weapons to be brought into the main facilities on those grounds by weekend offenders.

The $9.3-million investment by our government was built with an innovative design to lower costs, and it will help significantly to reduce overcrowding at the Elgin-Middlesex Detention Centre. It was a key part of our government’s transformation strategy for corrections. I’ll have more to say in the supplementary.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary.

Mr. Arthur Potts: Thank you to the minister for his description of this new facility. It’s just another example of how we’re using assets to build Ontario up. I’m pleased to hear about the numerous benefits of this new intermittent centre and the impact it will have on the London and surrounding areas.

I’m also quite pleased with the reception the facility has received. I understand, for instance, that OPSEU’s president has expressed deep satisfaction with the opening of the new facility, saying it will go a long way to improving conditions at the Elgin-Middlesex Detention Centre. OPSEU President Smokey Thomas noted: “With the new RIC, the province just got a little safer.” The chairman of the local community advisory board also commended the new facility, saying that the RIC “will make Elgin-Middlesex Detention Centre a much safer place.”

But these improvements at the Elgin-Middlesex centre aren’t limited to just this new facility. Can the minister talk about the other improvements that have been made to the Elgin-Middlesex Detention Centre?

Hon. David Orazietti: I’m happy to speak about the other improvements that we’ve made—again, to the member from Beaches–East York. I’m pleased with the reception that OPSEU and others have responded with. We’ve hired 60 additional correctional officers since 2013 at this particular centre, with 12 more set to graduate from our Correctional Officer Training and Assessment program, who will be scheduled to work at this location by the end of the month.

The EMDC also now has a mental health nurse and seven full-time nurses on site, with 24-hour nursing coverage. We’ve added approximately 350 new security cameras, six additional metal detectors, and a full X-ray body scanner will be present in 2017.

Speaker, I’m pleased with the progress we’re making in corrections. I want to thank the former minister, Minister Naqvi; Superintendent Dave Wilson; and all of the front-line officers at the—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

New question.

Hydro rates

Mr. Bill Walker: My question is to the Premier. My constituent Nicola Hart lives on a fixed income, so she doesn’t heat her home with electricity; she burns wood to save money. Yet after Nicola pays for the roof over her head and her electricity bill, she comes up short every month.

This is the nightmare facing many ratepayers in Bruce–Grey–Owen Sound, where 60 families have been disconnected because they couldn’t pay their rising hydro bills. Nicola Hart fears she could be next. She owes Hydro One $20,000.

This government broke its promise to protect consumers, it broke its promise to provide lower rates and it broke its promise of a reliable supply of new electricity. Given all of these broken promises, given all of the ongoing bungling, tell me why anyone should trust this Premier to fix the hydro rates that her party created?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Energy.

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: I’d like to thank the honourable member for that question. He highlights one individual case that is difficult for that family and that individual. I know when I was meeting with the executive director of Bruce county, we specifically spoke about that case, and there are some anomalies in there. But in terms of disconnections, our government is committed to ensure that we’re going to keep that clean and reliable system and make it as affordable as possible. That’s why we brought forward many of those programs.

In terms of individuals who are facing disconnection, if they contact the LEAP program through their local utility, they can get a $600 instant rebate on that. That may have helped that family before it got into such a crisis. Then, of course, we’re ensuring that we have that 20% reduction specifically for northern and rural families, because we recognize that some families have difficulty.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary? The member for Perth–Wellington.

Mr. Randy Pettapiece: Back to the Premier: If the cost of hydro suddenly matters to her, it’s fair to ask, what changed? It’s no wonder hydro costs so much. They spent billions of dollars putting up unwanted wind turbines to produce the power the province did not need, and they ran roughshod over rural Ontario. But who finally got this government to pay attention to hydro rates? Scarborough.

So I ask the Premier, will the Liberals start listening to my constituents, or do they have to take up residence in Scarborough?

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: I’d like to thank the honourable member for the question. I think we need to thank the Honourable Minister of Infrastructure for his past work on this file, because he recognized that we could make savings by not building two new nuclear units, saving $15 billion to the ratepayers. We actually saved $3.7 billion by renegotiating our Samsung agreement. And the 2013 long-term energy plan: When we did a price renewal on our renewables, we saved an additional $4.0 billion, and that was all by his leadership.

Mr. Speaker, I’m very happy to come forward today and bring forward a plan where we are going to actually suspend and cancel the LRP II. That will save an additional $3.8 billion, and that will save more money for families right across this province.

Domestic and sexual violence

Ms. Peggy Sattler: My question is to the Premier. Today, I will be reintroducing my private member’s bill to provide paid leave for workers who have experienced domestic violence and sexual violence, a bill that received unanimous support when it was debated in the last session. It’s traumatic enough for someone who has been sexually assaulted or abused by their intimate partner; survivors should not also have to worry about losing their jobs because of the violence they experienced.

The Premier can commit today to helping people maintain employment and making life a little easier by including paid leave for domestic violence and sexual violence in the government’s Employment Standards Act changes. Will she do that?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister responsible for women’s issues.

Hon. Tracy MacCharles: I think we can all agree that domestic violence is a very serious problem. It crosses every social boundary, and it will not be tolerated in Ontario. As the minister responsible for women’s issues, it’s a priority for me that women feel safe in their homes, in their workplaces and in their communities.

I know the Minister of Labour will want to provide additional details from a labour point of view in the supplementary, but let me just say this: In 2015-16, we’ve invested over $4.6 million in programs and services to help victims of domestic violence. Since releasing our Domestic Violence Action Plan in 2014, the women’s directorate has implemented many initiatives to raise awareness of domestic violence and strengthen support for victims. We’ve taken strong action in our Sexual Violence Action Plan—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Supplementary.

Ms. Peggy Sattler: Speaker, we recently learned that the federal Liberals are looking at the provisions of my bill to allow workplace accommodations for federal workers. We know from the murders of Lori Dupont and Theresa Vince that violence often follows victims to the workplace. The ability to change hours of employment or transfer to a new location can literally mean life or death.

Will the Premier follow the lead of her federal cousins and implement workplace accommodations for Ontario workers who have experienced domestic violence or sexual violence?

Hon. Tracy MacCharles: Minister of Labour.

Hon. Kevin Daniel Flynn: Thank you to the member for that very important question, and thank you for bringing forward this private member’s bill.

We clearly understand—I think both caucuses share the importance of this issue. We know the impact it has on individuals, on families, on children.

Let me tell you, Speaker, in the province of Ontario, our Occupational Health and Safety Act is the only legislation of its kind in the entire country that requires employers in this province to take every precaution reasonable in the circumstances to protect a worker from domestic violence in the workplace and at home.

This is an issue that’s being brought to the attention of the Changing Workplaces Review. We’re at the interim report stage. It’s clearly discussed in that report. So thank you for bringing attention to it.

I look forward to working with the entire House to resolve this issue in the right way.

Senior citizens

Mr. Peter Z. Milczyn: My question is to the minister responsible for seniors affairs.

Ontarians are living longer and healthier lives. Many of Ontario’s seniors want to continue being active and engaged in their communities. We see this through the many community groups that are active in Etobicoke–Lakeshore and in ridings throughout the province of Ontario. These groups are integral parts of our communities and work to provide seniors with a space to share and learn, and opportunities to enjoy new and exciting experiences. When the Seniors Community Grant Program was developed in 2014, it opened doors for many of those groups to expand their programs and offer unique experiences to Ontario seniors. It has been a successful program.

Can the minister of seniors affairs inform the House about the current status of the Seniors Community Grant Program?

Hon. Dipika Damerla: I want to begin by thanking the member from Etobicoke–Lakeshore for his question about seniors community grants.

As the minister responsible for seniors, I also want to take a minute to welcome all of the seniors in the gallery today.

Mr. Speaker, these grants, which have been in place since 2014, have provided Ontario seniors with access to 700 different types of programs. The programs range from education, arts, culture and healthy living, and focus on making sure seniors feel included and encouraging volunteerism.

To get an idea of the reach of this program, consider these numbers. Since 2014, these grants have touched the lives of a quarter of a million Ontario seniors, and this year we expect the grant to touch the lives of another 142,000 seniors. Mr. Speaker—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Supplementary.

Mr. Peter Z. Milczyn: I want to thank the minister for her answer.

As we’re building Ontario up and investing in our people, that’s not just youth and students; it also includes our seniors.

Seeing nearly 700 projects across the province receiving these grants is an amazing accomplishment. These projects are strengthening communities throughout Ontario. By supporting these local grassroots organizations and giving them flexibility in their programming, the grant allows these organizations to develop projects that best fit the unique needs in their communities.

However, Mr. Speaker, I wonder whether this grant benefits indigenous and multicultural seniors, as well as seniors outside of urban centres, in the same way. This grant is an excellent way of providing seniors with opportunities. I want to ask the minister of seniors’ affairs whether she can inform us how the seniors community grants are helping multicultural, indigenous and rural seniors.

Hon. Dipika Damerla: That’s a very important question, and I’m delighted to answer that question. Here are some examples, Mr. Speaker, of the diverse communities that we are reaching. Thanks to the seniors community grants, indigenous elders in Little Current on Manitoulin Island will be working with students to create a local story guide booklet, opening communication and sharing histories across generations and communities. In Kitchener-Waterloo, Aging with Pride is training LGBTQ seniors to help facilitate workshops to raise awareness of their special needs and concerns.

And in Ottawa, the Ottawa Chinese Canadian Heritage Centre is offering 10 monthly lectures to Chinese seniors, teaching them how to manage everyday issues.

These are just three examples of the diversity of programs. I do want to say that this program has been so singularly successful that in two years we have increased funding four-fold.

Hydro rates

Mr. Robert Bailey: Mr. Speaker, to you and through you to the Minister of Energy: Families in Sarnia–Lambton can’t afford their hydro bills. Thousands of families in my community are in arrears. Residents have been bringing hydro bills to my office that are $600, $700 and $800 per month. Local service agencies, non-profits and service clubs are struggling to keep their doors open. Small business and local industry are powering down investment and expansion plans because they fear this government’s policies. Billions of dollars in investment and economic impact are at stake in Sarnia–Lambton.

Minister, your 8% rebate is just a band-aid solution that won’t stop the bleeding. Rates are still going up. When will you announce real relief for hydro rate increases for the families and businesses in Sarnia–Lambton who struggle to pay or simply can’t afford their energy bills?

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: I would like to thank the honourable member for his question. I was just in the great riding of Sarnia a few weeks ago, working with Union Gas and learning about the Dawn Hub. I have to tell you, Mr. Speaker, it’s a great community. There’s lots of investment going on and there are lots of businesses growing in that sector. I know he should be very proud of that, because the investments that we’re making in terms of helping small businesses—that 8% reduction will actually help many small businesses.

And if they actually use more than a megawatt of power, over 1,000 more businesses right across the province will actually now be able to participate in the ICI program. The ICI program does two things. The first thing it does is that it helps lower rates for these businesses, between 14% and 34%—that’s one-third. And also, the ICI program actually reduces the amount of usage during our peak time, which actually helps the entire system, which keeps rates lower for everyone.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary. The member from Stormont–Dundas–South Glengarry.

Mr. Jim McDonell: To the Premier: Residents and businesses in Stormont–Dundas–South Glengarry are struggling to keep their heads above water because of unaffordable hydro bills. Mom-and-pop shops in small towns are being forced to close because they can’t afford to keep the coolers on. For one such store owner, the hydro bills were over $4,300 a month. He’ll be forced to close after 30 years in service. Residents are in dire financial straits and are facing disconnections due to sudden increases. They can’t afford them, especially on fixed incomes.

My question to the Premier is simple. She knows what’s causing this hardship across the province, and today’s announcement does nothing for my riding. Will she commit to stopping the construction of the four unaffordable wind and solar projects in Stormont–Dundas–South Glengarry?

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: Today’s announcement is good news for consumers right across the province. We’ve actually reduced $3.8 billion by actually suspending the LRP II project. That’s an additional $2.45 a month, on average, for every family.

When you put that in conjunction with our three-point plan in terms of making sure that there’s an 8% reduction for all families across the province, if you actually take that into consideration with the 20% reduction that rural and northern families are going to see, and the ICI program with businesses, and then if you put that on top of reducing the debt retirement charge and the six programs that we have, we are doing the single largest reduction on electricity bills for families in this province’s history, Mr. Speaker.

On the other side, all they did was leave our system in shambles. We had to rebuild it. We’ve got a safe, clean and reliable system, and we’re taking it to the next level to make it as affordable as it can be for everyone.

Student assistance

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is for the Premier. Yesterday, I met with students at Brock University in St. Catharines. I met a young woman who is at work nearly every single hour that she’s not studying in class. She has worked all summer. She’s earning the minimum wage. She says that even with working all of the possible hours she can work, Speaker, her debt continues to grow. She is stressed out and she’s exhausted.

Education should be an investment, not a burden. The government shouldn’t be making money off of her debt. Will the Premier agree today to take the interest off Ontario student loans?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: It’s interesting to hear a question like this coming from the party that voted against helping more Ontario students to go to college and university with free tuition.

I agree with the member opposite that college tuition and university tuition should be accessible. It should be accessible to everyone across the province, which is why we don’t want students to be incurring that kind of debt in the first place. That is why the Ontario Student Grant, which will be in effect next September—September 2017—will mean that young students, students from low- and low-middle-income families, will have free tuition or better than free tuition. It’s surprising to me that the leader of the third party wasn’t supportive of that initiative.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: I think we all know that Ontario can be a great place to live, but it is getting harder and harder to build a good life here, especially for young people. College or university should be a jumping-off point for finding a good job, finding a job you love and building a great life. But graduating with a $30,000 loan, plus interest, makes it a lot harder to build that life, Speaker.

This government should not be profiting from student debt, from student loans. It should not be happening. Does this Premier agree that it’s time to take the interest off Ontario student loans?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I’d ask the leader of the third party if she thinks it’s a good idea that students not have those debts in the first place, that they actually have access to grants that would mean they wouldn’t carry those loans.

What we have done is we have made a change, a dramatic change, in the way support for post-secondary students in this province will work. Starting in September 2017, students from low- and low-middle-income families will have access to free or greater than free tuition, and students from higher incomes will continue to benefit from the 30% off tuition, Mr. Speaker. But the students at most risk, the students that apparently the leader of the third party is most concerned about, will have access to free tuition. I would think that is something that the leader of the third party would support.

Immigrant services

Ms. Soo Wong: My question is to the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration. There are many newcomers arriving in my riding of Scarborough–Agincourt who are highly skilled and often possess a post-secondary education. I understand your ministry assists our highly skilled newcomers to access employment in their field of discipline without duplicating their previous training and education. In Scarborough–Agincourt, a number of my constituents rely on programs to provide training and support in various professions.

Mr. Speaker, through you to the minister, can she share with us what programs her ministry has to assist highly skilled newcomers to succeed in Ontario?

Hon. Laura Albanese: I’d like to thank the dedicated MPP for Scarborough–Agincourt for this valuable question.

The member is correct. Ontario’s immigration strategy has helped our province attract highly skilled newcomers to drive our economy forward and be competitive in today’s global markets. Each year, over 6,000 highly skilled immigrants access our bridge training projects in more than 100 occupations to help them find work in their designated professions. Some of these occupations covered by our bridge training projects include early child education, the skilled trades and nursing—and I know that the MPP for Scarborough–Agincourt is a nurse. Through this program, highly skilled newcomers are able to get licensed to support their families and contribute to Ontario’s success.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary.

Ms. Soo Wong: I want to thank the minister for her response. It is reassuring to know that our government is committed to helping newcomers succeed, and I’m sure the minister would agree with me that the work of community agencies like the Chinese Professionals Association of Canada, better known as CPAC in my area of Scarborough–Agincourt, is critical to the success of newcomers.

Minister, it is important that we continue to encourage highly skilled newcomers across Ontario to access these programs so that they can find meaningful work within their field disciplines. Recently, the minister announced, at Seneca Newnham Campus in the city of Toronto, new funding for Ontario bridge training projects.

Speaker, through you to the minister, can she inform the House how the government of Ontario is enhancing support for various organizations across the province so that they can continue to help newcomers succeed in Ontario?

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Minister?

Hon. Laura Albanese: I want to thank the member once again for her question.

Our government has stayed true to our commitment to support highly skilled newcomers in Ontario. In early August, I announced an investment of $3.35 million over the next two year