Manitoba Hansard — 6 June 1994 (Sitting 41A, 35th Legislature, 5th Session)

35-5-41a

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Fifth Sessi on • Thirty-Fifth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Ma-nitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Denis C. Rocan Speaker Vol. XLlll No. 41A • 1:30 p.m., Monday, June 6, 1994 ISSN OS42-S492

NAME ASHTON, Steve BARRE'IT, Becky CARSTAIRS, Sharon CERD...LI, Marianne CHOMIAK, Dave CUMMIN GS, Glen, Hon. DACQUAY, Louise DERKACH, Leonard, Hon. DEWAR, Gregocy DOER,Gacy DOWNEY,James, Hon. DRIEDGER, Albert, Hon. DUCHARME, Geny, Hon. EDWARDS, Paul ENN S, Hauy, Hon. ERNST, fun, Hon. EVANS,Clif EVANS, Leonard S. FILM ON, Gacy, Hon. FINDLAY, Glen, Hon.

FRIESEN,Jean MANITOBA LEGISLATIV E ASS EMBLY Thirty-Fifth Legislature Members, Constituencies and PoUtlc:al Afftllatlon CONS'ITIUENCY Thompson Wellington River Heights Radisson Kildonan Ste.Rose Seine River Roblin-Rossell Selki.rlc Concordia Arthur-Virden Steinbach Riel St. James Lakeside Charleswood Interlake Brandon East Tuxedo Springfield Wolseley GAUDRY, Neil GllLESHAMMER, Harold, Hon. GRAY, Avis St. Boniface Minnedosa Crescentwood Gimli HELWER, Edward R. HICKES, George KOWALSKI, Gacy LAMOUREUX, Kevin LATHLIN, Oscar LAURENDEAU, Marcel MACKINTOSH, Gord MALOWAY,fun MANNESS, Clayton, Hon.

MARTINDALE, Doug McALPINE, Geny McCORMICK. NOJma McCRAE, James, Hon. MciNTOSH, Linda, Hon. MITCHELSON, Bonnie, Hon. ORCHARD, Donald, Hon. PALLISTER, Brian PENNER, Jack PLOHMAN, John PRAZNIK, Darren, Hon. REID.Dacyl REIMER, Jack RENDER, Shirley ROBINSON, Eric ROCAN, Denis, Hon. ROSE, Bob SANTOS, Conrad SCHELLENBERG, Hauy STEFANSON, Eric, Hon. STORIE, Jerry SVEINSON, Ben VODREY. Rosemacy, Hon. WOWCHUK, Rosann Point Douglas The Maples Inkster The Pas St. Norbert St.

Johns Elmwood Morris Bwrow s Sturgeon Creek Osborne Brandon West Assiniboia River East Pembina Portage Ia Prairie Emerson Dauphin Lac du Bonnet Transc:ona Niakwa St. Vital Rupertsland Gladstone Turtle Mountain Broadway Rossmere Kirkfield Paik FlinFion La Verendrye FortGauy Swan River PARTY. NDP NDP Liberal NDP NDP PC PC PC NDP NDP PC PC PC Liberal PC PC NDP NDP PC PC NDP Liberal PC Liberal PC NDP Liberal Liberal NDP PC NDP NDP PC NDP PC Liberal PC PC PC PC PC PC NDP PC NDP PC PC NDP PC PC NDP NDP PC NDP PC PC NDP

2989 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Monday, June 6, 1994 The House met at 1:30 p.m. PRAYERS RO� PROCEEDINGS READING AND RECEIVING PETITIONS ACCESS Progr am Funding Mr. Speaker: I have reviewed the petition of the honourable member (Mr. Hickes). It complies with the privileges and the practices of the House and complies with the rules. Is it the will of the House to have the petition read? An Honourable Member: Dispense. Mr. Speaker: Dispense. The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba humbly sheweth that:

WHEREAS under the ACCESS program hundreds of students from disadvantaged backgrounds have been able to get post-secondary education and training; and

WHEREAS these st udent s have gone on to successful careers in a variety of occupations, including nurse s, teach ers, social workers, engineers amongst others; and

WHEREAS the federal government has eliminated their support of the ACCESS program; and

WHEREAS the provincial government has cut support by 11 percent in 1993 and a further 20 percent in 1994; and

WHEREAS the enrollment has already dropped from over 900 to roughly 700 students due to previous cuts; and

WHEREAS the provincial government, in addition to cutting support for the ACCESS program by over $2 million in the current year, is also turning it into a student loans program which effectively dismantles the ACCESS program. WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislative Assembly request the Minister of Ed ucation and Training (Mr. Ma nne ss) to consider res toring the funding to ACCESS program. Mr. Speaker: I have revie wed the petition of the honourable member (Mr. Santos ). It complies with the privileges and the practices of this House and complies with the rul es.

Is it the will of the House to have the petition read? An Honourable Member: Dispense . Mr. Speaker: Dispense. The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba humbly sheweth that:

WHEREAS under the ACCESS program hundreds of students from disadvantaged backgrounds have been able to get post-secondary education and training; and WHEREA S the se stud�nts have gone on to successful careers in a variety of occupations, includin g nur ses, teachers, social workers, engineers amongst others; and

WHEREAS the federal governme nt has eliminated their support of the ACCESS program; and

WHEREAS the provincial government has cut support by 11 percent in 1993 and a further 20 percent in 1994; and

WHEREAS the enrollment has already dropped from over 900 to roughly 700 students due to previous cuts; and

WHEREAS the provincial government, in addition to cutting support for the ACCESS program by over $2 million in the current year, is also turning it into a student loans program which effectively dismantles the ACCESS program. WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislative Assembly request the Minister of Educ ation and Training (Mr. Man ness) to co nsider rest ori ng the funding to ACCESS program.

2990 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 6, 1994 Mr. Speaker: I have reviewed the petition of the honourable member (Mr. Martindale). It complies with the privileges and the practices of this House and complies with the rules. Is it the will of the House to have the petition read'! An Honourable Member: Dispense. Mr. Speaker: Dispense. The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba humbly sheweth that:

WHEREAS under the ACCESS program hundreds of students from disadvantaged backgrounds have been able to get post-secondary education and training,· and

WHEREAS these student s have gone on to successful careers in a variety of occupations, includ ing nurses, teachers, social workers, engineers amongst others; and

WHEREAS the federal government has eliminated their support of the ACCESS program,· and

WHEREAS the provincial government has cut support by 11 percent in 1993 and a further 20 percent in 1994; and

WHEREAS the enrollment has already dropped from over 900 to roughly 700 students due to previous cuts,· and

WHEREAS the provincial government, in addition to cutting support for the ACCESS program by over $2 million in the current year, is also turning it into a student loans program which effectively dismantles the ACCESS program. WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislative Assembly request the Minister of Ed ucation and Training (Mr. Mann ess) to con sider restor ing the funding to ACCESS program. •

(1335) INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 13-The Condominium Amendment Act Bon. Jim Ernst (Governmen t House Leader ): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Government Services (Mr. Ducharme ), that leave be given to introduce B ill 13, The Condominium Amendment Act; Loi modifiant Ia

Loi sur les condominiums , and that the same be now received and read a first time. Motion agreed to. Bill l4-1be Real Est ate Bro kers Amendment Act Bon. Jim Ernst (Governm ent House Leader) : I move, Mr. Speaker, seconded by the Minister of Gov ernm ent Services (Mr. Ducharme), that leave be giv en to introduce Bill 14, The Real Estate Brok ers Ame ndment Act; Loi modifiant Ia

Loi sur les courtiers en immeubles, and that the same be now received and read a first time . Motion agreed to. Bill 15-1be Law Society Amendment Act Bon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Justice and Attorney Genera l): Mr. Speaker, I move , seconded by the Minister of Finance (Mr. Ste fanson ), that leave be given to introduce Bill 15, The Law Soc iety Amendment Act; Loi modi fiant Ia

Loi sur Ia Soci� t� du Barre au, and that the same be now received and read a first time. Motion agreed to. Bill 16-Th e Provinci al Court Amendment Act Bon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Justice and Attorney General) : Mr. Speaker, I move , seconded by the Minister of Finance (Mr. Stefanson), that leave be given to in troduce Bill 16 , The Provincial Court Amendment Act; Loi modifian t Ia

Loi sur Ia Cour provinciale, and that the same now be received and read a first time . His Honour the Lieutenant -Governor, having been advised of the contents of this bill, rec ommen ds it to the House. I would like to table the message . Motion agreed to. Bill 17-The City of Winnipeg Amen dment and Conseq uential Amendments Act Bon. Linda Mcintosh (Minister of Urban Affairs): I move, seconded by the Minister of Government Services (Mr. Ducharme ), that leave be given to introduce Bill 17, The City of Winnipeg Amendment and Consequential

June 6, 1994 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2991 Amendments Act; Loi modifiant Ia

Loi sur la Ville de Winnipeg et app ortant des modifications c�latives, and that the same be now received and read a first time. Motion agreed to. Bill 213-1be Im migration Consultants Registry Act Mr. Gary Kowalski (The Maples) : Mr. Speaker, I move , seconded by the member for Inkster (Mr. Lamoure ux), that leave be given to introduce Bill 213, The Immigration Consultants Registry Act (Loi sur l' inscription de s conseillers en immigration), and that the same now be received and read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Kowalsk i: Mr.

Speaker, we have seen in the past how immigrants to our province have been exploited by unscrupulous business people. We believe that this bill, which creates a registry for people who hold themselves out as immigrant consultants, is one step towards protecting new Manitobans. I recomm end this piece of legislation to all members of this Legislature . Motion agreed to. •

(1340) Bi11 208-The Real Property Amendment Act Ms. Marianne CeriD i (Radisson) : Mr. Speaker, I move , seconded by the member for Rossmere (Mr. Schellenberg ), that leave be given to introduce Bill 208, The Real Property Amendment Act; Loi modifiant Ia

Loi sur les biens reels, and that the same be now receiv ed and read a first time. Motion presented. Ms. Cerilli: Mr. Speaker, this bill was originated when a constituent of mine came fotward with a very unfair situation, and it is to deal with the situation when a homeowner is at risk for selling their property to someone who assumes their mortgage and then has the financial institution pursue them when the purchaser goes into arrears . It is a fair bill. It will create some more equity in this area.

It is common sense and it is there to protect people from the powe rful fina ncial institutions who have tried to pursue original owners for outstanding payments when the homeowner who assum es their mortga ge falls into arrears . I would ask all members to support this bill, and I look fotward to the chance to debate it in the House. Motion agreed to. Biii302-The Manitoba Hist orical Society locorp oration Act Mrs . Shirley Render (St. Vital) : Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the member for Niakwa (Mr.

Reim er) , that leave be given to introduce Bill 302, The Mani toba Historical Society Incorporation Act; Loi constituant Ia Soci�t� historique du Manitoba, and that the same be now received and read a first time. Motion presented. Mrs . Render: Mr. Speaker, the society 's original incorporating act was repealed in 1990 , and the society is now asking that this act be passed to re-establish its corporate status and to ensure that its decision making since the original act was repealed is valid and enforceab le. I would urge that all honourable members supp ort this bill. Thank you. Motion agreed to.

Introduction of Guests Mr. Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, may I direct the attention of honourable members to the loge to my left, where we have with us this afternoon the Honourable Sandy Jolly, the Minister of Municipal Affairs for the Province of Nova Scotia. On behalf of all honourable members, I would like to welcome you here this afternoon, ma'am. Also with us this afternoon, I would like to draw the attention of honourable members to the Speaker's Gallery, where we have with us Mr. Jack Thompson and Mr. Paul Gauthier.

These gentl emen are veterans of the D-Day invasion and were members of the Royal Winnipeg Rifles. On behalf of all honourable members, I would like to welcome you here this afternoon.

2992 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 6, 1994 Also with us this af ternoon, we have 27 repr esentatives of the Filipino community in Manitoba. These visitOIS are under the direction of Mr. David Langtry. On behalf of all honourable members, I would like to welcome you here this afternoon. ORAL QUESTION PERIOD Social Saf ety Net Reform Manitoba Position Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition) : Mr. Speaker, my question is to the First Minister. 1bere are two ma jor federal initiatives that are scheduled to bear fruit in terms of policy proposals by the fe deral government in early June.

One is, of course, to deal with the elimination of the GST. 1be other proposal is to deal with the social policy initiatives in Canada and a revamping of the social policy programs in Canada. Mr.

Speaker, today the Financial Post is quoting -and both those initiatives have been delayed -that there may be linkages between the GST and the social policy review, that there is a desire and a goal of the federal government to reduce social policy spending by some $1.5 billion and that this may be linked to the elimination of the GST; in other words, less money for the provinces and a greater flexibility in terms of taxes for the pr ovinces.

I would like to ask the First Minister if Manitoba is participating in any of those disatssions with the fed eral government, or is the fe deral government initiating any of those discussions with the Province of Manitoba? • (134 5) Bon. Gary Filmon (Premi er) : Mr. Speaker, the member opposite raises a very valid and important issue. The fact of the matter is most of the provinces in Canada were asked to participate in a conf erence on the social safety net review a couple of months ago- all the provinces were, I should say.

Unf ortunately, there was no position paper put forward by the federal gover nment nor consultations that took place ahead of time that would have involved the provinces in the development of a strategy. As a result, a number of the provinces decided not to participate in that. We were not one of the provinces because we do want to be co-operative.

We do want to do the best that we can to participate with the fe deral government in seeking better answers to the funding of our very prized social safety net On the other hand, we certainly were co ncerne d about the lack of a position or information to back up a proper disatss ion of the issue. With respect to the GST, my understanding is that the Ministers of Fina nce, the provincial Ministers of Finance, are awaiting the report of the fed eral committee that was struck under, I believe, Mr.

Peterson, Liberal member from Ontario, to go across the country and hold discussions and listen to presentatio ns, but we are not in a position to know anything about the intercounection between these two initiative s. That is not something that has been shared with me or with my colleagu es. Goods and Services Tax Manitoba Position Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition) : Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance of Manitoba was quoted last week in the Chamber in a question posed by the member for Brandon East (Mr.

Leonard Evans) as saying that the western Finance ministers had discussed the issue of changes in the GST and changes in the income tax system of Canada. Today, our Minister of Fmance is quoted again in the Financial Post, saying that provincial goals include a major reform that would allow provinces to tax income directly, instead of collecting a percentage of the fe deral income tax, this in relationship to the discussions going on with the GST. I would ask the Minister of Finance, could he table Manito ba's proposal and its impact on the public of Manitoba of a proposal of this nat ure? Bon.

Eric Stefanson (Minist er of Finance): Mr. Spe ake r, this is an issue that has been on the agenda of Finance ministers certainly for several months, if not several years, in terms of some tax reform at the pro vincial and national level.

June 6, 1994 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2993 One of the initiatives has been that instead of provi ncial governments charging a tax on tax, which is currently the case with our provincial income taxes , provincial governm ents, I believe, if not in total unani mity, most provinces across Canada are agree ing that a fairer process would be a tax on income, as is the case with the fe deral tax. It would allow pro vincial governments to have some input into tax policy.

It would also make it very transparent in tenns of how those taxes are being paid, whom they are being paid to, and obviously, enhance accountability for both levels of gove mment. So that is an initiative that has been consistent, has been on the table for many months, Mr. Speaker, and when I responded to the member for Brandon East (Mr. Leonard Evans), we indicated that the westem provinces and the Territories and Yukon were going to this meeting very anxious to see the Commons commi ttee report on the GST.

Provinces for many months and many years have had many tax issues on the table with the fe deral governme nt, and we are saying to our fed eral governm ent that just because they made an election promise on one particular issue , the time has come for them to address all of the tax issues that provinces are prom oting, and tax on income is certainly one of them. Mr. Doer: I would thank the Minister of Finance for his answ er. Mr. Speaker, this is a ma jor issue for all Manitobans and for all members of this Cham ber. We have the GST.

We have a proposed alternative to the GST that the Commons committee is looking at, a kind of a two-tier, value-added tax. There are diffe rent propos als in tenns of its impact on provinces, harmonization, identity of the tax, et cetera. The Minister of Finance has indicated that they clearly want to change the way in which the income tax is set up. I was wondering, could the Minister of Fm ance table that position and its impact on Manitobans? It is a very, very important issue. It is at a very important time in our history de aling with some of these very unf air taxes that have developed in Canada.

No one disputes the fact that some of the loopholes on page 1 of the income tax system, as the member for Brandon East (Mr. Leonard Evans) ide ntified last week, should be elim inated, that tmst funds for a few families should be eliminated, Mr. Speaker. We welcome that, but we would certainly want to see-and could the First Minister table what the Manitoba proposal is that the Minister of Finance was just talking about? •

(1350) Bon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Mr. Speaker, this is an issue that has been dealt with not only by Finance ministers, but by First Ministers for more than a decade. The position of the Manitoba government is this is not intended to raise any additional revenue for our government. It is intended to be revenue neutral, but to make the tax system more simp lified in older to be able to deal directly with the kinds of changes that we want to bring into the system for the benef it of Manitobans. I might say that this goes back a long way. The predecessor ad ministration under Mr.

Pawley brought in a 2 percent tax on net income, and they had to wotk through a very convoluted system in older to impose that ad ditional tax load. We, in a measure that was supported by New Democrats in this House in 1989, brought in the richest system of tax credits for taxpayers with dependants and families in this provi nce and had to go through a very convoluted system in older to introduce that because of the way the tax system wotks, where we tax on top of tax instead of directly.

So in all these circumstances, it has been the position of the provi nces, by and large, of all political stripes that there would be a great desire and a great benefit to simp lifying the system and allowing our income tax to be direct, as a tax on income as opposed to a tax on fe deral tax and then have to put in a convoluted additional set of forms in order to give back additional generous benefits to our Manitoba taxpayers. It is no t something that is new. It is not something that is intended to generate additional revenue. It is something that is intended to be

2994 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 6, 1994 helpful to the Manitoba taxpayer in the course of any changes that we bring in. Health Care System Regional Boundaries Mr. Dave Chomiak (Ki ldonan): Mr. Speak er, I have bef ore me a document that indicates that the Department of Health has rec omm ended that the province outside of Wmnipeg be organized into eight health care regions. Can the minister advise the House as to whether or not the eight districts have been finalized and what the boundaries are of those particular districts? Bon. James McCrae (Minister of Health) : Mr.

Speaker, as a result of the health board's recommendation for eight regions in Man itoba, there is now an appeal process unde rway. When we have the results of the deliberations of the health board, we will be able to ann ounce the final number of regions and what the boundaries will be. Mr. Chomiak : Mr. Speaker, can the minister indicate what the ef fe cts of the new MMA agreement and the physician resources and the physician all ocation are with respect to the funding of those particular health regions? Mr.

McCrae: Through our phased approach to health reform , answ ers to the kinds of questions the honourable member is raising today will flow through that me chanism of building these associations and building the governance models and the funding models for them . The answ er will be fo rthcoming from the bottom up. Mr. Chomiak : Mr. Speaker, this is my imal supple mentary . It is clear that one of the ma jor failings of the government's health reform has been lack of consultation and lack of input from the public.

The minister indicated that there was an appeal process in place to deal with these eight regions and these eight districts. Can the minister indicate what process is in place and how the average Manitoban, who has had no input into the minister 's health reform, can actually have some input into this decision and other decisions that are being made? Mr. McCrae: Mr. Speaker, the honourable member became somewhat combative in his last question.

I need only remind him of the approach used in other provinces in this country where, by the stroke of a pen, gover nments reduced substantially the number of hospital boards in existence and in Saskatchewan, for examp le, replaced hospital bo ards with their own app ointees. That is not the appro ach being used in Manitoba. We are using a more phased and consultative app roach. Indeed, Mr. Speaker, there have been some 13,000 Manitobans involved in the process of renewal of our health care system over the last fe w years. That is a lot of Manitobans.

Our process has been sometimes criticized as being too consult ative. I will accept that criticism, but I will not accept the criticism of the honourable member that we are not consultative enough. •

(1355) The Winnipeg Jets Provincial Auditor' s Report Mr. Paul Edwards (Leader of the Second Opposition) : Mr. Spe aker, my question is for the Minister of Finance. We have been advised by the Provincial Auditor's office that either late Friday or early this morning, the Auditor's office fo rwarded to the Mini ster of Finance a calculation of the losses which the Province of Manitoba was responsible for as a result of the operations of the Winnipeg Jets Hockey Club. That report was forthcoming from Public Accounts Committee . Mr.

Speaker, I would ask the Minister of Finance, firstly, if be is prepared to table the Auditor's report in the Legis lature today and, secondly, if not, will he advise members of this House as to the Auditor's proje ction of losses for this year and if she gave the opinion on future years of losses that the province is responsible for as a result of the Winnipeg Jets? Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance) : Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the second opposition party is correct I, along with my colleague the Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism (Mr. Downey),

June 6, 1994 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2995 received a copy of the Auditor's report late Friday. I had an opportunity this morning to go through iL The Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism is away attending interprov incial trade barrier dis cussi ons. I will be tallcing to him either today or tomorrow. It is our intention to release this report as soon as possible .

Certainly this week it will be released It was dis cuss ed, as the member indicated, at Public Accounts a couple of weeks ago, and it is my intention to release it as soon as possible, as soon as I have had an opportunity to discuss it with my colleague and to do a thorough review . So it will be released this week, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Edwards: Mr. Speaker, I am sure all honourable members look forward to receiving a copy of that report.

My supple mentary for the Minister of Finance: Given that when the City of Wmn ipeg released its budget forecast for losses it was responsible for, when they came up with those opinions , which set it at $11. 5 million for 1994 and $17 million for 1995, the gov ernm ent, the Premier (Mr. Filmon) in particular, was highly critical of those. Mr. Speaker, can the minister indicate today whether or not the Auditor's report indicates that the city's pro jections, whether for the 1994 or 1995 year were, in fact, incor re ct?

Given that the Premier has gone on the record as critical of these budgetary estimates , what does the Provincial Auditor say? Mr. Stef anson: Mr. Speaker, I really think it will be appropriate to wait until that report is, in fact, tabled. All members of this Assembly will then have an opportunity to review it, to ask questions at that time and to offer comments, and I would be more than prepared to deal with any aspects of it in great detail at that point in time .

It is premature for me to start discussing a report that has not been tabled to all members of the Assembly , and I look fo rward to either having questions here or ultimately back at Public Accounts on this issue when the report is, in fact, table d. Burns Committee Report Tabling Request Mr. Paul Edwards (Leader of the Second Opposition) : Final ly, for the Premi er, Mr.

Speaker, the Burns committee, as all members are aware, has now sat and met two mont hs in excess of what their original timetable was, and while , of course, we all want the result to be a thorough one and give them the opp ortunity to make all of the investigations they deem appropriate, we are now in the month of June. June 30 is the deadline under the agreement the Premier signed back in 1991. When can members and the citizens of the province expect a report of the Burns committee? Bon. Gary Filmon (Premier) : Mr.

Speaker, the member answered his own question when he said that we all want the infor ma tion and the recommendations to be thorough and to be ones that can be acted upon to the benefit of the people of Manitoba. It is for that reason that I do not believe it is appropriate for us to tell the committee that they must give us any report if they do not have an answer that they believe is satisfactory and a plan that they believe we can act upon. I believe it is up to us to give them the time that is necessary to try and put together a proposal that we could act upon.

My understanding is that they have agreement from Mr. She nkarow to waive the June 30 deadline , and so, under those circumstanc es, obviously the pressure becomes less to deal with the issue within the next 30 days . •

(1400) CN Ran/CP Ral l Merger Impact on Manitoba Mr. Daryl Reid {Transco na): Mr. Spe aker, during the last federal election, the fe deral Liberals spoke of renewing our infrastructure, improving our transportation system, reducing input costs to ma ke farming mor e viable and comm itting millions of tonnes of grain to the Port of Churchill. The Liberals claimed that they would follow a different path from the Conservati ves. Since then, they have supported more cuts to VIA Rail, the merger of CNR and CPR lines east

2996 LEGISLA1TVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June6, 1994 ofWumipeg , and now are following the same path as the former gove rnment. The now federal Minister of Transportation says that our whole transportation system is oveibuilt and intends to eliminate $1.6 billion of supp ort. My question is for the Minister ofHighways and Transportation. What will happen to the prairie provinces consultation report, and will it include what the impact of the elimination of these subsidies will have on Manitoba taxpayers, the producers and the communities involved? Bon. Glen Findlay (Minister of High ways and Transportation) : Mr.

Speaker, the memb er rambled on to some extent about the federal Liberal governm ent, and I cann ot answ er for the federal Liberal government. lbey may do some things that will not be very helpful for us in western Canada, particularly Manitoba, and, in fact, we are still waiting for the milli on tonnes to be announced to go through Churchill which was very clearly spelled out in the red book as an objective of particularly the Manitoba MP.s. Mr.

Speaker, I believe the member is referring to a study that we have commissioned of the three prairie pro vinces to loo k at the CN-CP amalgamation or potential amalgamation east of Wumipeg. We have asked them to look at a wide variety of issues as to the impact that this amalgamation might have on Manitoba and particularly on the effect on Winnipeg as a hub of the rail transportation industry. Grain Transportation Subsidies Mr. Daryl Reid (Tr ansco na): Mr.

Speaker, given that the federal Liberal Minister of Transport is now talking about the elimi nation of some $590 million in grain transportation subsidies, what plans does this government have in place to protect Manitoba producers? Bon. Glen Findl ay (Minister of Hi ghways and Transportation) : Mr. Speaker, did I understand the member to say we should accept the offload of that sort of decision by the federal government? That is an astounding request. Mr. Speaker, over some time, we have had discussions. I can assure the member we will not accept that kind of offl oad.

We have had discussions with the grain industry, with the fanners, over the last three or fom years as to how that subsidy could be paid in a more efficient manner , and that is all that is on the agenda as far as we are concerned. Consultations Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcon a) : My final supplementary is to the same minister. Now that Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta have joined forces to study the impact of the proposed merger and have hired a consulting firm , can this minister tell us why it is only the shippers who are going to be consulted?

Why have we not put in place the opportunity for consultation with rural municipalities and the public at large, and where will these public hearings be held that only shippers are curre ntly involved in? Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Highways and Transpor tation) : Mr. Speaker, we are looking for direct impact if the amalgamation is proposed. Hit is proposed, there will 1»-I think a competition bureau of the federal government will review it, and then the National Transportation Agency will be holding hearings.

We have requested to the federal government, if they go that far, that the National Transportation Agenc y will hold hearings particula rly across weste rn Canada, but I would imagine all of Canada, and that will follow up if the federal government accepts that merger pr oposal, when and if it shows up. Manitoba Youth Centre Overcr owding Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns) : My question is to the Minister of Justice.

At the summ it on youth crime and violence held on December 4, a Crown attorney advised the participants that the Manitoba Youth Centre had capacity for 150 youth, but that on the day before, there were 201 youth housed at that facility. I will never forget the reaction of participants to that ann ouncement. Mr. Speaker, my question to the minister: Would she confirm that there is an overcrowding problem at the Manitoba Youth Centre?

June6,1994 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2W/ Bon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Justice and Attorney General) : Mr. Speaker, I can say to the member that at times, there are people within the Y outh Centre of over 200. However, within the Youth Centre, the Youth Centre has been able to make arrangements to deal with Ibis. 1be Youth Centre bas extra staffin g, and we also have been double-bunking the young people . Mr. Mackintosh: I understand there may be some triple-bunking there .

Given that last week in an institution built and staffed for 150 people there were 230 you th, would this minister-that is an increase, by the way, of 15 percent in just six months-advise Ibis House what security risk this poses to Man itobans, including those in the facility? Mrs . V odrey : Mr. Speaker, let me start by saying that I do not confinn the mem ber's numbers. As a matt er of fact, I believe the membe r's numbers are inaccurate. I am aware of how he tried to get those nu mbers, and I believe the individual who gave the numbers to him was not accurate in that count.

So first of all, I do not confinn the numbers. Mr. Speaker, this brings us right back to where we always are with the NDP-where we always are. The NDP want to be lenient with offe nders. 1bey do not want to do anything about offenders. They have made that clear, but the people of Manitoba do not feel that way. Swampy Cree Tribal Council Negotiations Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas) : Mr. Speaker, the issue of health care reform has been around here for over two years now. Much has been debated during that time with respect to cutting back on progr ams and service s, layoffs, bed closures and so on.

One area of discussion which has clearly been absent in Ibis debate is how aboriginal people are being affected negatively by this reform process, in spite of numerous repr esentat ions by those groups, such as Swampy Cree Tribal Council. Sadly , I have to say that the impression I get from this lack of mention of aboriginal people in this debate is that aboriginal people simply do not matter, even though they are citizens and living around those areas where this reform p roces s is taking pl ace. · My question is to the Minister of Health.

Could the Minister of Health advise this House why negotiations have broken down between himself and the Swampy Cree Tribal Council with respect to the 1964 agreement? Bon. James McCrae (Minister of He alth) : Mr. Speaker, I profoundly di s agree with the honou rable member when he says aboriginal people do not matter.

Perhaps he and his caucus believe that, but I and my caucus do not believe that In fact, when it comes to aboriginal issues, I would be happy to compare the record of this administration with the record of the previous one any day of the week, any time, with the honourable member here or in his home community. The record of the previous government with respect to aboriginal Canadians, aboriginal Manitoban s, was dis graceful, and the honourable member shows a lot of gall to rise in his place today to make such a comment. He also fo rgets to mention, Mr.

Speaker, when he talks about beds closed and jobs lost, about the nume rous jobs created and the numerous new bed openings in Man itoba. We need to have a balanced discussion about these matters. With respect to the issue raised about Swampy Cree Tribal Council, there are indeed issues outstanding. We discussed those issues at the time of the discussion of my dep artment's :Estimat es, and as far as I know, nothing bas changed since that time. Mr. Lathli n: Mr. Speaker, I am also prof oundly dis app ointed with the response this min ister gives to questions respecting aboriginal people.

W ill the minister advise the House as to whether he has any intentions of getting those ne gotiations back to the table and negotiating in good faith with the Swampy Cree Tribal Council? Mr. McCrae: Mr. Speaker, I would be pleased if the honourable member would spend more time trying to be helpful than just spending all his time

2998 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June6, 1994 being disappoin ted. H he wants to be disappointed about something, he need only look at the recotd of his colleagues in his own party when they were in government for so many of the past 20 years in Manitoba. The real progress that we have seen with respect to aboriginal matters has been seen in more recent years under this administration. Mr. Latblin : Once more, Mr. Speaker, when will this minister convene a meeting with the Swampy Cree Tribal Counci l so that a satisfactory conclusion to the health transfer negotiations can be realized? Mr.

McCrae: It might suit the honou rable member for us to meet with the members of the tribal council and ignore altogether the wishes and needs of other people in the region, but I will not do that. I have met with the Swampy Cree Tribal Council, and so has the Deputy Minister of Health met with the Swampy Cree Tribal Council. There are other peop le involved besides tribal council people whose rights need to be taken into account, too. It would be nice if the honourable member would remember that. • (1 410) Affirmative Action Status Report Ms. Avis Gray (Crescentwood) : Mr.

Speaker, 11 years ago, the fonner administration developed an affirmative action plan, and in asking for some updated inf onn ation on that plan, we were sent the brochure which still lists Minister Mackling as responsible and a joint statement of this policy signed by the then-minister and the then-president of the MGEA, a Mr. Doer. Can the Minister responsible for the Civil Service Commission indicate what progress has been made regarding employment equity over the past 11 years? Is he prepared to table an updated document that indicates the progress that has been made? Bon.

Darren Pra znik (Minister charged with the administr ation of The Civ il Servic e Act) : Mr. Speaker, receiving such an old document does su rprise me so mew hat. I would ask if the honourable member could provide me with some more infonnation as to whom she contacted. I do not believe it came from my office.

I say to the honourable member that we are still very much on track for the particular target levels that were set some years ago, but I do say to her that one of the difficulties in the whole pr ocess over the last three years in particular has been the change in priority to e nsure that we are able to employ as many people and dea l with the adjustments in workforce as a result of general downsizing of government. That has been the No. 1 priority. Ms. Gray: Mr.

Speak er, with a supplementary question to the same minister: Can the minister table in this House the results of changes that have been made to employment practices as outlined in this orig ina l docu ment? Can he table that infor mation with the new docu ment that he obviously has in his office? Mr. Pramik: Mr. Speaker, I would be more than pleased to discuss those particular issues with the honourable member for Crescentwood when we get into the Estimates, which I understand we should be doing very shortly . Ms. Gray: Mr.

Speaker, with a final supplementary to the minister responsible: Given that the Affirmative Action program is something that all Manitobans are interested in, is he prepared to table that document now so that, in fact, we, as legislators, can share that with the people in our constituencies? Mr. Praznik : Mr. Speaker, as so many in the opposition benches when they rise up asking for tablings, they talk about docum ents that may not even exist. If she is asking for discussion on particular policy, I would be more than pleased to discuss that when we get into the process, very pleased to do that.

I would again stress to the honourable member that the No. 1 priority of the Civil Service Commission over the last three years has been workforce adjustment and ensuring that the maximum numb er of peop le who had been affected by changes in downsizing in the civil service were found employment in the civil

June6, 1994 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2999 service. To tbat end, we have been one of the most successful governments in Canada Aboriginal Justice Inquiry Status Report Mr. Eric Robinson (Rupert sland) : Mr. Speaker, as people in this House know, the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry was created in 1988 to examine the administration of justice and aboriginal peoples in this province. That report was tabled in 1991, and we are just short a few months of its third anni versary. My question is for the Minister of Justice. I have yet to hear any word on the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry.

While I realize she will have something to say about it shortly in Estimates, I would like to ask the minister today to state what her position is on the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry report and for her to table the new projects funded by her department that are AJI-related. Bon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Justice and Attorney Genera l): Mr.

Speaker, as the member knows, a number of the rec omm endations of the AJI report, some of those rec omm endations apply to the provincial Ministry of Justice, others were to be shared between the province and the federal gov ernment and others applied very specifically to the federal government only. As the member knows, we have been very active and very interested in looking at the issues and working on the issues of the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry. The member well knows that we recently signed, about two we eks ago, the interim agreement for aboriginal policing with the Dakota Ojibway Tribal Council.

We are moving in the areas of aboriginal policing and also aboriginal courts. Mr. Robinson: Mr. Speaker, as members of this House will also realize, there are roughly 293 recommendations in the Ab original Justice Inquiry. About 101 of them relate directly to the province, and it gave the province, certainly, an opportunity to do something meaningful for the aboriginal people of this province. I would like to ask the same minister about the report. Will she release her agenda for action so that aboriginal people in Manitoba will finally see a timetable for action? Mrs. V odrey : Mr.

Speaker, as the member knows, in working with the recommendations from the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry, a number of them do require consultation with the communities. I refer the member back to issues relating to aboriginal policing. In areas of policing within aboriginal communities, the First Nations policing policy requires a consultation. So, Mr. Speaker, the member asks me to specifically timetable dates and he completely overlooks , as does the New Democratic Party, the part that aboriginal communities themselves play in determining what is their priority and what is their timetable.

They would prefer to ignore it. Mr. Robinson: Mr. Speaker, I do commend the minister and her department for the action that was taken on the DOTC, even though there were several months tbat elapsed with the FliSt Nations people in those eight communities who did not receive policing services. Aboriginal Organizati ons Meeting Request Mr .

Eric Robinson (Rupertsland) : My final question to the minister: Will she commit herself to meet with the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs, the Mani toba Metis Federati on, the Indigenou s Women's Colle ctive, and release the details of the $1-million initiative as outlined in her Estimates? Bon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Justice and Attorney General) : Mr. Speaker, I take great exception to the way the member asked his question. The DOTC communities, in fact, did receive policing. It is absolutely wrong to say in this House that they did not receive policing. That is absolutely wrong.

I am sure the member did not intend to say that I certainly hope that he did not. In terms of future initiatives, I will be speaking about those all during the Estimates of the Department of Justice and, in addition to that, in the opportunity that we have very specifically to speak about aboriginal justice initiatives.

3000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 6, 1994 Arts Act Government Commitme nt Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley ): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Culture, Heritage and Citizenship. Five yem:s ago, the DeFehr commissi on on the ans in Manitoba made its report, and subsequently, the government has taken up one or two of the recommendations of that report and has altered some of the responsibilities within the department and begun a review of arts curriculum in Manitoba, but five years on, Mr.

Speaker, there has been no movement on one of the most fundamental recommendations of that commission, and that was for an ans act in Manito ba. I want to ask the minister if he is comm itted, as his pre decesso r was committed, to bringing fo rward an ans act for Manitoba. Bon. Harold Gilleshamm er (Minister of Cult ure, Heritage and Citizenship): I can tell the member that discussions within the department and within the community are continuing on that issue. 1bere are a number of funding issues that are also under consideration and those dis cussi ons are ongoing. Ms.

Fri esen: Well , five years after the report, could the minister undertake now to take that first step and table a discussion paper on an ans act in Manitoba, so that there might be some public discussion on this ? Mr. Gillesha mmer: We ll, I want to assure the member that discussions are going on within the ans community with the Manitoba Arts Council and other groups. Recently, I wa s in Brandon and had an opportunity to meet with a number of individuals who are on the board and who show their worlcs at the Art Gallery of Southw estern Manitoba. I intend to meet with other grou ps, as well, in the near future.

Manitoba Arts CouncU Reporting Process Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolsel ey ): Does the minister intend to adopt one of the additional recommendations of the DeFehr Report and that was to enable the Arts Council of Manitoba to report annually directly to a legislative committee? Bon. Harold Gilleshammer (Minister of Cul ture, Heritage and Ci ti ze nship) : Mr. Speaker, the discussions on that issue are still ongoing. I have met with the Arts Council on a number of occasions and looked at the mandate that they have. I look fo rward to getting into further discussions during the Estimates process with the member. •

(1420) Seria l-Killer Cards Manitoba Position Ms. Beck y Barrett (Wellingt on): Mr. Speaker, the fe deral parliamentary justice committee is currently studying proposed legislation to ban the sale of U.S.-made serial killer cards and board games which, by the way, use dead babies as markers. 1be cards , which are similar to hockey or baseball cards , have pictures of murderers on one side and details of their crimes on the other. I would like to ask the Minister of Justice what this governme nt's position is on that legislation. Bon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Justic e and Attorney General) : Mr.

Speaker, we had an opportunity as Ministers of Justice across Canada to have some discussion in this are a. We are certainly very, very concerned about that particular issue of cards and very concerned about the impact on young people. I expect to have continued opportunity to speak to the fe deral minister about the issue. Ms. B81T ett: Mr.

Speaker, general concern is all very well and good, but has the Minister of Justice and her government done anything specific, like make a presentation in writing on this provincial government's support for this proposed legislation or their concerns with potential elements of this legislation? Does the fe deral government know specifically what the Man itoba government's position is on this legislation? Mrs. Vodrey : Mr.

Speaker, as I said to the member, this was a sub ject of discuss ion at the meeting of ministers across Canada, Ministers of Justice across Canada, and I believe the fe deral gove rnment does know our position.

June6, 1994 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3001 Howe ver, if the member is asking for further action, always that is, in an important area, something which we are more than willing to put forward, as bas been shown in this House before. Ms. Ban-ett: Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister of Justice today, why, when this bas been on the federal books--either this legislation or an ea rlier piece of le gislation by the previous government-or in the discussion phase for over two years, she thinks it would be a good idea to make a presentation?

Why bas she not put specifically in writing directly to the federal justice committee what the Province of Manitoba's position is on this? Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Spe aker, I believe my statements, when the memb e r reads them in Hamard, she will see were much stronger than, I think. The member knows, when she reads my comments in Hansard, it will also deal with the fact that I have had direct discussion with the federal Minister of Justice on this matter. Manitoba Telephone System Cable Network Mr. Paul Edwards (Leader of the Second Opposition) : Mr.

Speaker, my question is for the Minister responsible for the Manitoba Telephone System. Approximately a week ago, the CRTC issued a statement encouraging provincia lly owned utilities, telephone utilities, to become involved in the cable system around the country. That was a specific policy directive that came out approximately a week ago, Mr. Speaker.

Has this caused the minister and the Manitoba Telephone System to reconsider or rethink in any way their agreement with the consortium of 13 pr ivate cable companies to, in effect, sell off the cable netwoik that they are selling off under that agreement to that consortium? Bon. Glen Findlay (Minister responsible for the administration of The Manitoba Telephone Act) : Mr. Speaker, no, it bas not What Manitoba Telephone System owned here was simply the distribution cable. MTS was not involved in any broadcast or transmission on that.

This was the only province in which that happe ned in all of Canada, so what we did in no way interferes with the ability of cable to compete in telephone or telephone to compete in cable in the future, if that is the wish or the will of CRTC. Mr. Edwar ds: It is my understanding that the CRTC was, in fact, inviting telephone utilities to expand their horizons into at least joint venturing, broadcast and transmission servi ces around the country.

Given that is what we have sold off, the direct netwodt that is being sold to the group of 13, does that in any way limit, in the minister's view, the ability ofMTS to, in a sense, grow and expand into those maikets? Mr. Findlay: No, I do not believe so, Mr. Speaker. As I mentioned when we made the ann ouncement, a microwave system for rural Manitoba, the first to be built in North America, will be built here, so obviously MTS was not in that.

The existing system the people are purchasing that the 13 broadcasters are going to rebuild means the system that was there was not going to serve the purpose in the future. So the system is being rebuilt by the industry and is in the p roces s of negotiation, the ability to joint venture in various ways and means in the future. Those doors were not closed. Mr. Speaker : Time for Oral Question s bas expired. NONPOLfinCALSTATEMENTS Philippine Heritage Week Mr. Speaker: Does the honourable First Minister have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed] Bon. Gary Filmon (Premie r): Mr.

Speaker, on Friday, as Manitobans began a weekend-long series of special events leading up to the 50th annive rsary of D-Day, today, I was pleased to make a ministerial statement on D-Day in this Legislative Assembly. Fifty yea rs ago today, D-Day was a major turning point in the battle for democracy, independence and freedom around the world.

3002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June6, 1994 Today I am pleased to ask all honourable members to join with me in recognizing another historic world event whose comemtone lies in the quest for these same noble ideals. This week Manitobans are joining people around the world in celebrating Philippine Heritage Week. This special week of celebr ation is cen tred around the declaration of Philippine indepe ndence 96 yeam ago. The obser vance of the 96th anniv ersary of Philippine Independence Day on June 12 is an understandably special event for Filipinos here and throughout the worl d.

People gave their lives to maintain free dom within their country. The respect owed to events su ch as this recognition of Philippine inde pendence goes well beyond the bound aries of culture, herit age or religion. The 96th anniversary of Philippine independence is very significant for all people of the world for it reminds us that no one is ever alone in their struggle to live in peace, free dom and democracy. The many cultural and festive activities planned this week in Manitoba highlight the vibrant culture of a proud people. They celebrate a culture that Filipinos have fought to preserve and protect.

I was delighted to sign a pr oclamation earlier today recognizing Philippine Heritage Week in Manitoba The celebration of our cultural heritages continues to be a significant positive factor in the enrichment of the quality of life we enj9y in Manitoba. The many activities scheduled this week in celebration of Filipino heritage, with all its ex citing traditions and customs, reminds us of the value of sharing and understanding each other's culture. We must also remember these celebrations do not just happen.

One of the most important factors in the success of the outstanding events and obse rv ances within our community is the volunteem who make them a reality. VolunteeiS provide the ener gy, commitment and dedication which kee ps the multicultural mosaic of Manitoba active and exciti ng. I wish to commend the volunteem who give so much to keep the Filipino culture a strong participant within our multicultural framework. Events such as Philippine Heritage Week help us to value the many dimensions of divemity and citizenship.

They serve to foster undemtanding, mutual respect and harmony among all ethnocultural communities, factors essential for the stability and strength of our province. Please join me in exte nding best wishes to the Filipino community for a ver y successful Philippine Heritage Week. Thank you very much. Mr. Speaker: Does the honourable Leader of the officia l opposition have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed] Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition) : Mr.

Speaker, it is indeed an honour and a privilege to rise with the Premier today and pay tribute to Philippine Heritage Week here in Manitoba, and, of course, the member for Broadway (Mr. Santos) spoke on this issue on Thursday outlining the many events that would take place starting this weekend. It is appropriate that the Premier mentioned D-Day, because last night I was at a Phillipine event spon sored by our loca l Ph illipine community, a cultural event with singem, dancem and many participants who were raising money for the Manila YM-YWCA through the Manitoba YM-YWCA. Mr.

Speaker, as one of the skits unfolded talking about the average memb ers of the Phillipines country fighting for democ racy-and it a major skit on people, farmers, workem, business people, rising up to fight for democracy in the Phill ipines -the Consul General's wife Mrs. Guzman said to me when I was sitting there that this is our D-Day. So the comments of the Premier today are very applicable to what I experienced last night at that event at the Mennonite Centre. Mr.

Spe aker, it was 96 yea rs ago that independence was achiev ed, and it is a very, very major event There are heroes of that struggle from the Philippines that are remembered this week during this Independenc e Week. It is also a tremendous celebration of the Philipp ine culture

June 6, 1994 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3003 and the Philippine contributions to Manitoba, to Canada and to the w orld. I am always struck, Mr. Speaker, at this Heritage Week at the tremendous love of our country that the Philippine comm unity has. The Canadian flags are in many of the ski ts; Canadian flags, along with the Philippine colo urs and flags, are prevalent throughout the dem onstrations that we saw last evening. 1bis is consistent with my experi ence.

I remember being in the middle of the Meech Lake experience and also going to the Philippine Heritage Week and always struck by that if everyone could have this love of Canada, what a great way to solve all our petty differences in our beautiful country. It really comes bUe to us that take sometimes this country for gra nted, this tremendous pride in Canada and tremendous respect for the homeland in the Philippines. You are right, Mr. Speaker, the Premier (Mr. Filmon) is correct. It is a celebration of cul ture, heritage and religiou s freedom.

It is a tremendous event with the num ber of volunteers, whether it is the picnic next weekend, the raising of the flag yesterday, the event that I participated in with the member for We llington (Ms. Barrett) last evening -a tremendous number of volunteers. Last evening alone I know that I was hosted by an old friend, Les Crisost omo, who gree ted me at the door and chaired by Poy Gomez and a number of other, literally hundreds of volunte ers, and this is, of course, what happens right throughout the week. Mr.

Speaker, as w e celebrate democracy here in Manitoba, it is very fitting that we celebrate together the Philippine Heri tage Week. We want to pay tribute, along with the Premier, to the tremendous volunteers and the tremendous dedi cation to not only making this week a success, but also making our province a tremendously diverse and cul turally rich province with economic ambitions and democratic freedoms, all part of the culture of the Philippine Heritage Week. Thank you very, very much. Mr.

Speaker: Does the honourable Leader of the second opposition party have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed] Mr. Paul Edwards (Leader of the Second Opposition) : Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the Liberal caucus and the Legislature , I want to share comments with the Premier and the Leader of the Opposition in recognizing Philippine Heritage Week here . 1bis week, of course, commemorates the 96th annive rsary in the Philippines of the declaration of Philippine Independence Day. Mr.

Speaker, we often spe ak in all parties about multiculturalism in a gene ric sense, and we, of course, all support the con cept that Canada has grown to be a multicultural community. However, this particular opp ortunity, I think, gives me and, indeed, my other friends in the Legislature an opportunity to really talk about what it means in the day-to-day life of our communities and our citizens. • (14 30) The fact is I am very privileged to have a number of Filipino fam ilies living in my constituency.

I have seen first-hand over the years that I have represented that area and those neighbourhoods the enormous contribution of those families, not only to the cultural make-up of this city and this province and this country, but indeed to the everyday activities of the communities they live in. There are 35 ,000-plus Filipino citizens in this pro vince, and they make an enormous contribution in things which I think are not specific to them being from the Philippines , but simply as good Canadian citizens. My friend the Leader of the Opposition (Mr.

Doer) has made comment of that, and I can certainly vouch for that in the day-to-day activities of the constituenc y I represent. Mr. Speaker, in fact, they are hardwor king, industrious, fam ily-oriented communities that are hard at work all across this province enriching our lives in all kinds of ways. My caucus and I salute the eff orts of that community in building this country. While not with the first wave of immigrants, ob viously, as they have come to this country, they have wor ked from within the existing structure to enhance it. Mr.

Speaker, I want to, of course, recognize the events of this week, and I want to indicate , as all members, I am sure, here will be doing, that I will

3004 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 6, 1994 be att ending a number of those events and looking fo rward greatly to them. I have already bad the opportuni ty to attend some of them, in particular, the flag-raising ceremony which took place sponsored by the Filipino veterans ass ociation. I know that, from speaking to my colleague the member for The Maples (Mr. Kowalski), it was an extremely important event and e xtremely symbolic and significant in teDDS of our understanding of the history of the Philippines and their role in Canada and in Manitoba curre ntly. In addition, Mr.

Speaker, I want to specifically re cog nize the organizing committee, the co-ordinating committee , for the 1994 Philippine Heritage Week. With the number of events, this is an enODDOUS task and One that, I am sure, takes most of the year to organize and culminates in this week. The chairperson, Sheila Ramos ; the vice-chairs, Julie Esteban, Etta Pangilinan; secretary, Philip Pascual ; treasurer, Manny Reyes; auditor, Cory Juan. These are just a few of the names.

These are people in the key positions in this co-oldinating committ ee, and I certainly do not mean to leave out the many otheiS who are going to put a lo t of ef fort into this week. That co-o tdinating committee , in particular, I believe , here in the Chamber deserves special recognition as having put in an enoDDous amount of effort to ensure that this week yet again is a large su ccess.

I want to conclude by jus t saying that I appreciate, as a non-Filipino, the enoDDous effort this community makes to reach out to membeiS of the community who are not directly membeiS of the Filipino community but are from other communi ties. The Filipino community is eager to share its culture and its heritage , and that is indeed appreci ated by me and by the membeiS of our caucus. We look fo rward to sharing with this community in the e vents during this week and wish the organizers and the members of the community another successful celebration. Thank you. Mr.

Speaker: Does the honourable member for Broadway have leave to ma ke a nonpolitical statement? [agreed] Mr. Conrad Santos (Broadway) : Mr. Speaker, I am delighted for the recognition that my fe llow Canadians have accorded the Philippine heritage , including a week-long celebration dedicated for the purpose. In North America, no one bad ever confronted war in its face, directly confronting their own homeland like the North American soil, but I have seen war face to face when I was a young man. I have watched the dogfights in the air. I was unaware that I could be killed.

When the Japanese came over, I appreciated the idea of free dom and justice. The Philippines have been the show window of democracy in the Far East, and we are proud of that fact. We have been under slavery for 300 yeaiS under the Spaniards, and it is due to this that one of our national heroes, Dr. Jose Rizal, had written novels as well as poems. I will give a sample of one he bad writt en, with the permission of the House and the Speaker. This is called Mi Ultimo Adios, My Last Farewell.

He said: Spanish spoken. (Translation) "Farewell, dear Fatherland, clime of the sun caress' dl Pearl of the Orient seas, our Eden Lost!/ Glandly now 1 go to give thee this faded life's best,/ Still would 1 give it thee, nor count the cost. On the field of battle, 'mid the frenzy of fight,/ Others have given their lives, without doubt or heed;/ The place matters not--cypress or laurel or lily white,/ Scaffold or open plain, combat or martyrdom's plight,/ 'Tis ever the same, to serve our home and country's need." (English) Those are just two stanzas, Mr. Speaker. I like to push it to the end because it is too long.

I will recite the last s tanza. Spanish spoken. (Translation) "Farewell to you all, from my soul torn away,/ Friends of my childh ood in the home dispossessed!/ Give thanks that 1 rest from the wearisome day!/ Farewell to thee, too, sweet

1une 6, 1994 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3005 friend that lightened my way;/ Beloved creatures all,farewell! To die is to rest!" (English) To die is to rest. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: I would ask the honourable member for Broadway now to provide Hansard with a translation of what the honourable member has just said. Ma-Anne Dionisio-Dora Mavor Moore Award Nomination Mr. Speaker: Does the honourable member for Niakwa have leave to ma ke a nonpolitical statement? [agreed] Mr. Jack Reimer (Niakwa) : Mr.

Speaker, it is a pleasure to info Dll the members of the House that one of Manito ba's most talented young perfo Dll ers has been nominated for a very prestigious award. Ma-Anne Dion isio, an excellent actress and singer with her Filipino communi ty, has been nominated for a Dora Mavor Moore award. Ma-Anne drew national attention to Manitoba when she was selected from an eno Dll ous number of auditioning perf ODllers last year to play in the lead role in the play Miss Saigon.

As the largest theatrical undertaking in the history of the Canadian stage, this $20-million production focu sed national and international attention on this young lady. Ma-Anne has proven to countless audiences during the past year that she is truly star material and as Miss Saigon has played to rave reviews ever since opening night . Ma-Anne 's brill iant creation of the main character Kim has showcased her extraordinary vocal talen ts. This, in tum, has brought her the great honour of being nominated for a Dora Mavor Moore award in recognition of her achieveme nts.

Ma-Anne has had a rem arkable and a very dis ting uished career and has become an outs tanding role mod el for all youth in our community. The nomination fo r this award is national recognition of what we already know here in Manitoba, that Ma-Anne is one of the most talented and outstanding perfo Dll ers. I ask the members of this House to join with me in wishing Ma-Anne all the best in her career and congratulating her on this prestigious nomination. Thank you. Transcona Sports Weekend Tournaments Mr. Speaker: Does the honourable member for Transcona have leave for a nonpolitical statement? [agreed] Mr.

Daryl Reid (Transcona) : Mr. Speak er, in 1986 the Transcona sports weekend to urnaments started activities and during this first year some 16 teams participated. Sporting events included both soccer and baseball. Over the past nine years, this nonprofit event has grown to a point where this past weekend there were some 90 soccer teams, 46 baseball teams and 11 5 young people involved in the Kids of Steel triathlon. In total, appro ximately 2,300 young people ranging in ages from under six to 15 ye ars participated. Some 1,900 trophies were awarded to the participants, the finalists and the event winne rs.

Teams came from all parts of Wmn ipeg and some rural areas and had much praise for the organizers of this event This event may be the largest in the province , Mr. Speaker. I had the opp ortunity to present many of the trophies to the participating youth. I thank the Transcona Sports Weekend organizers and volunteers for exceptional jobs. The volunteers are as fo llows: Wayne Tucker, Dave Dueck, Bob Madams, Bob Sitter, Cathi Champagne , Don Champagne, Robin Mitchell, Keith Cahoon, Ken Langlotz, Bob Iolmson and Darryl Chody.

These people have done an exceptional job on behalf of the youth of our city of Winnipeg, and I thank them for the participation that they have shown and the dedication they have shown over the ye ars. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Dr. Laurie E. Evans-Prof ess or Emeritus, University of Manitoba Mr. Speaker: Does the honourable member for Crescentwood have leave to make a nonpo litical statement? [agreed] • (1 440)

3006 LEGISLA1TVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 6, 1994 Ms. Avis Gray (Crescentw ood): Mr. Speaker, it is indeed a pl easure for me to rise today to pay tribute to Dr. Laurie B. Evans who was honoured with the title of professor emeritus at the University of Manitoba Convocation June 1, 1994. 1be honour of profess or emeritus is conf erred upon a select few individuals who have held the pro fess orial rank, have retired as members of the teaching staff and, in the opinion of the board of govemoiS , have rendered distinguished service to the university and to the scholarly pro fessi on. Dr.

Evans is certainly a worthy recipient. He received his Bachelor of Science in Agriculture at the University of Saskatch ewan, his Master of Science and his Doctor of Philosophy at the University of Manitoba. Dr. Evans began his career at the Manitoba campus in 1958. He is a specialist in cytogenetics and served as head of the Department of Plant Science, the Faculty of Agriculture from 1980 to 1988. His accomplishments in the field of plant science are noteworth y and numerous . As a colleague of mine in the Legislature and as a true friend, Dr.

Evans reflects qualities of humanitari anism, wisdom, a seeker of knowledge and he exhibits a humbleness about his own success. Robert Louis Stevenson wrote about success and its meaning. I would like to repeat those words as they capture much about Dr. Laurie B.

Evans : "That man is a success who has lived well, laughed often and loved much; who has gained the respect of intelligent men and the love of children; who has filled his niche and accomplished his task; who leaves the world better than he found it, whether by an improved poppy, a perfect poem or a rescued soul; who never lacked appre ciation of earth's beauty or failed to express it; who looked for the best in otheiS and gave the best he had." I am sure all members of this House will join me in recognizing the efforts of Dr. Laurie B. Evans. Thank you. 50th Anniversary of D-Day Mr.

Speaker: Does the honourable member for Stwgeon Creek have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed] Mr. Gerry McAlpine (Sturgeon Creek) : Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise today on this 50th anniversary of D-Day. 1bis is a solemn occasion because , while it does mark the beginning of the end of the Second World War, it is also a time to remember those young soldieiS who did not come home again. Many of the young soldiers who fought violently in Normandy have made it a part of their lif e's work to educate young people about the horror of war. Two of those men are here today, Mr.

Speaker, and you introduced them to this Chamber: Mr. Jack Thompson and Mr. Paul Gauthier of the Royal Winnipeg Rifles, also known as the Little Black Devils. These two gentl emen joined me this morning at Golden Gate School and spoke about the importance of remembering and understanding the significance of D-Day. The audience was a group of 85 to 90 Grade 9 students and their teacheiS . I want to acknowledge Mr. Thompson and Mr.

Gauthier for their courage on D-Day and the subseq uent weeks as they fo ught to liberate France, but I also want to acknowledge their courage for allowing themselves to once again revive those terrible memories of the actual battles . Mr. Speaker, I would like to use this occasion to thank them not only for their leademhip in helping to educate our young people , but I would also like to thank them for their efforts to make Canada the great country it is today.

In addition to those two gentlemen who are our guests here today, I would also like to include several names known to me , to put their names on the record for the occasion , who were unable to be here because of the previous commitments as membe iS of the Wm nipe g Rifles and Fort Gany Horse. I included Mr. Gordon Shep pard, Mr. Kelly MacTier, Ted Kaiser, Paul Martin, Ernie Tayler, Gordon McQueen, J.C. Stoneman, Len Smith, Robert Smellie, Allen Grant and Larry Salisbury.

June 6, 1994 LEGISLA'TIVB ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3007 I would also like to conclude, Mr. Speaker, by thanking Mr. Hemy Wiebe, the principal, and Mrs. Jane MacLean , a teacher at Golden Gate, for accommodating me on this special recognition this morning. Thank you. National Transportation Week Mr. Speaker: Does the honourable Minister of Highways and Transportation have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed} Bon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Highways and Transportation) : Mr.

Speaker, I would like to make all members of this House aware of National Transportation Week, which is being held across Canada this week from June 5 to 11. It is being held to celebrate the contribution of Canadi an transportation workers to the economic and social development of Canada This specially designated week provides the opp ortunity for all sections of the transportation industry to consider ways to in crease efficiency, to discuss new developments in policy and to focus on industry saf ety, technology and developments in environmental issues .

It is also a time to help Canadians learn that transportation plays a very vital role in the daily lives of all Canadians . Tre mendous co-ordination and co-operation between the various transportation sectors have been necessary to organize this week's events on both the provincial and national scale . The fact is, both co-ordination and co-operation underscore this yea r's National Transportation Week theme , Inten nodalism: The Perfect Fit.

The highlight of this week in Wm nipeg here will be the We dnesday awards luncheon , at which time special recognition awards will be made to honour the individuals who have ma de outstanding contributions to transportation development. Mr. Speaker, I re commend that any member of the House who bas a chance to participate in the events this week should so do. Thank you. Mr. Speaker: Does the honourable member for Trans cona have leave to make a non political statement? [agreed] Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona) : Mr.

Speaker, I would like to join m y comments with those of the Minister of Highways and Transp ortation in recognizing National Transportation Week. We recognize the importance of transporta tion to our province and to our country. We know that it provides a great number of jobs and services to ma ny Manitobans and, of course, my own community of Transcona is one of those many communities of our province that bas its history tied to the transportation sector of our province and our country. So I join with the minister in recognizing National Transp ortation Week, Mr. Speaker. Thank you for the opportunity.

YMCA 150tb Anniversary Mr. Speaker: Does the honourable member for St. Vital have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed] Mrs . Shirley Render (St. Vital) : Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise today to ma rk the 150 th anniversary of the YMCA, the Young Men's Christian Association. In these 150 years, it has provided a variety of services to countless people in communities over the world. For instance, the Y bas played a ma jor role in promoting lifelong learning by introducing night school to this country. It bas also advanced physical fitness and healthy well-being among Canadians.

It bas helped to develop quality child care. It bas helped to set prof essional st andards for the operation of community services. It bas initiated international development pro jects. It has called attention to the changing social conditions affecting Canadian youth and actively responding to them . Here in Manitoba the Y bas been in operation since 18 79. I think all of us are aware and can appreciate the great work that it bas done in our communities . Last year alone the Y worked with over 58 ,000 Manitobans.

It helped Manitobans through health, fitness and recreational programs , and, in ad dition, many families use the Y child care and other s participated through the Y programs such as cam ping, employment prep aration and training, literacy and English language training. The services the Y offers are, without a doubt, invaluable and irrepl aceable in all of our communiti es.

3008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 6, 1994 •

(1450) In my community of St Vital the south family Y plays an important role. I have seen firsthand some of the great work that it has accomplished. For instance, the south family Y offers a drop-in centre and leadership development for youth. It also has sports leagues and classes for both adults and young people and family time with children. These activities contribute to the phys ical, spiritua l , ment al and socia l needs of our community and are a local demonstration of the success of the Y's principle of a holistic and balanced appro ach to human development.

I know many members of this House are also members and supporters of the Y. Theref ore, Mr. Speaker, I hope that all members of the Legislature will join with me to congratulate the Y on 150 years of success and se rvice all over the world, and we look forward to another 150 years. Thank you. ORDERS OF THE DAY House Busin ess Bon. Jim Ernst (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, I would like to ann ounce that the Standing Committee on Public Utilities and Natural Resources will sit on Tuesday, June 21, at 10 a.m. to consider the 1993 report of Manitoba Hydro.

The commit tee on Municipal Affairs will sit on Thursday, June 23, at 10 a.m. to consider the report of the North Portage Development CoipOration. Mr. Speaker: I would like to thank the honourable government House leader for that inf ormation. .•

(1500) Mr. Er nst: Mr. Speaker, I move , seconded by the Minister of Justice (Mrs. Vodrey), that Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair and the House resolve itself into a committee to consider of the Supply to be granted to Her Majesty. Motion agreed to, and the House resolved itself into a committee to consider of the Supply to be granted to Her Majesty with the honourable member for St. Norbert (Mr. Laurendeau) in the Chair for the Department of Enviroument; and the honourable member for Seine River (Mrs. Dacquay) in the Chair for the Department of Justice .

COMMITI'EE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) ENVIRONMENT Mr. Deputy Cha irperson (Marcel Laurendeau) : Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will be considering the Estimates of the Department of Environment. Does .lhe honourable Minister of Environment have an opening statement? Bon. Glen Cu mmings (Minis ter of Environm ent): Yes, I do. I have a rather lengthy statement. I will not be reading all of it, but I have a copy for the Hansard reporters. Presumably , they will be able to pick out what I said and what I did DOL As we proceed with the overview of our priorities and direction for '94-95, I should take the opportunity to thank staff in the department.

We are a ver y small department and seem to be consistently, as rightfully we should be, involved in activities in a large percentage of the natural res ources side of government, and everyone within the department is certainly expected to carry their full share in order to accomplish it with the st aff complement we have, and I do app reciate that. I should put on recor d first of all the departmental mission, which is to ensure a high quality of environment for present and future generations of Manitobans.

I think the department has a high degree of technical competen ce, a sound re putation across the country in water quality objectives, harmonization, ozone depleting substances control. Those are are as where Manitoba has been recognized as being very competent and perhaps in some areas leading the country, particularly in ozone depleting substances legislation. We do have a very advanced legislative regi me, a long record of inter departmental action and co-operati on and, of course, interprovincial co-operati on.

June 6, 1994 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3009 I think that this department along with Government Services bas a very ef fective emergency response program, and I sense a very good level of morale and purpose among the members of the department. 1he strategies that we are pursuing at this juncture are harmonization of ef fort at the national level through CCME; building partnerships with local governments, provincial departments and industry; focusing on regional solutions and developing innovative app roaches to enforcement; developing alternative app roaches to command and control and placing greater reliance on targets, objectives and standards rather than prescribing specif ic technologies or app roaches; extending resources through involvement of others using delegation and empowerment.

I suppose the recent changes made to the ozone depleting substances regulation is a good example of the latter. The department is involved in the continuous improvement initiative and recently introdu ced a continuous improvement process to seek and implement ways and means of continuously improving bow work is done in order to meet client expectations of quality se rvice. We look at everyday work process, from responding to a complaint, to filling out a fonn, to devising a departmental corporate strate gy, and then determining ways that we can do it better, easier, more efficiently and more effectively.

A departmental continuous improvement steering committee has been fonned and continues to improve . A plan has being developed. A number of departmental staf f participate in training programs to become more knowledgeable in respect to this initiative. A number of sub committees have been struck to carry out client survey, employee survey, and focus groups for a comprehensive and ongoing communications plan. An extensive client survey is presently being completed involving a survey of appr oximately 1,500 departmental clien ts.

We have conducted four focus groups in the South-Central Region and have initiated internal communications on this pro ject. Part of that employee survey is being completed as we speak. • (15 10) As changes and improvements are identi fied, teams will be struck to implement the needed change s. The Manitoba Department of Environment and officials of Environment Canada and respective governm ent services departments are engaged in discussions to explor e the feasibility of coloca ting our departmental operations at a common location.

This is a rather unique opp ortunity because what we want to do is establish a one-stop, common environmental centre to support at a minim um the pro vision of federal and provi ncial environmental services to the Manitoba public, put a tangible physical face on fe deral-provincial envir onmental harmonization, to consider colocation of other environmental organizations with the fe deral and provincial environmental departments and to effe ct cost savings to both organizations by sharing support services.

Both Environment Canada Winn ipeg offices and Manitoba Env ironment are, as it turns out, seeking new office space at approximately the same time, and both operations could share certain common needs for laboratory, library, emergency response space, equipment calibration, et cetera. Although this is still a concept in its early stages, there are some principles that have been agreed to, that the space must be publicly accessible and publicly friendl y, the space must be staff and operational friendly , and must be environmentally acceptable .

A number of opportunities that will possibly emerge from this : the achievement of space savings; the opportunity for a one-stop ap proach to environmental issues within the province, something that has long been a problem not only in Manitoba but in other jurisdictions across the country-anything we can do to improve true harmonization of fe deral and provincial services in the area of environment is indeed important, and if shared facilities wo uld hel p facilitate communication and improve the delivery to the public, then it is certainly a worthwhile goal

3010 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 6, 1994 -potential common, shared services for purchasing of supp lies, administrative suppo rt, and financial services; a number of operational hannonizations may be feasible in water quality; sharing of certain special equipm ent.

This is certainly something that is far from being a definitive decision, but it is an area that is quite interesting and has some potential in the broadest sense for improvement of environmental response and management in this province. 1be department has what I consider a first-rate emergency response capability, received 366 calls on the emergency system last year involving 225 environmental accidents and 160 onsite responses by staf f. The em ergency response staff also participated in a 40-hour training program to train responders to OSHA standards.

I continue to be more than satisfied with the way the responders within our department have been able to respond to situations they have been faced with up to this point. 1be Ozone Depleting Substances program under the Waste Reduction and Prevention Initiative s, the Manitoba Ozone Protection Industr y Association took over most of the responsibility of the ozone program. The Mani toba government maintains resp onsibility for enforcement and regulation and will maintain our federal-provincial liaison.

Now that the initial implementation phase of the ozone depleting substance regulations has been completed, the program activities relating to training, inf ormation and technical support have been transf erred to the Manitoba Ozone Production In dustry Associa tion to provide tec hnicians, the public and other stakeholders with inf ormation regarding ozone depleting subst ances .

This organization is made up of industry and environment representatives, has a mandate to be a nonexclusionary association, and participation is welcome to everyone that is affected by the curre nt legislation .and/or ozone depleting substances.

The Mani toba gover nment and MOPIA maintain a liaison on issues regarding enf orcement and ozone deple ting substances regulation, an example of where I believe we have been able to co-opt the industry into doing a lot of the education and support wolk out there so that we can stick with our core mandate, which is enforcement and protection of the environment as it relates to ozone depleting substances. The beverage container packaging regulation is another area where we have been quite busy all year.

This regulation appl ies to ready-to-serve beverages sold in sealed containers except for dairy products and instant formula. Since the regulation came into effect in '92, an increased recovery trend has been observed with respect to a variety of container types including nonrefillab le, aluminum, liquor, glass, glass containers overall. Reco very targets , however, have not been achieved with respect to certain containers , and we will continue to press for improvements in this area. It is known that the regulation provides for add itional asse ssment should container recyclers not collect enough containers .

Obviously, this is related to the initiative that we have taken on multimaterial recycling within the last month, and we will probably be discussing that further, either now or in the next few days, but beverage containers will play an important

part in under writing the system of multimaterial recovery as we move in that direction. It should be noted that we have been receiving levies from the beverage container industry in excess of a half a million dollars for the failure to meet targets that were laid out a year ago. There are a number of initiatives underway in the newspaper recycling are a. A number of regional recycling netwolks have been established. We now have in excess of 57 municipalities and 160,000 people outside of the pro vince that are served by regional recycling netwolks .

The Manitoba Associa tion of Region al Recy clers has now been established in '92 to co-ordinate our regional recycling activities. The member organizations are pro cessing in excess of 500 tonnes of old newspaper per month. In excess of 6,000 tonnes of ONP is being recycled ann ually in this province . Malket demand is high, and there

June 6, 1994 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3011 is no known stockpiles of ONP in the province for which a market cannot be fo und. The City of Winnipeg has begun mo re aggress ively with its multimaterial depots and a number of private-sector recycling companies are busy at providing curbside serv ice, but of note, VeiSatech Industries now has 3,500 tonnes of ONP annually that it handles and projects an ability to marlcet up to 9,000 tonnes . Pine Falls is proposing the construction of a significant de-inking facility and cmTe ntly recycles about 5,000 tonnes of ONP from the midcontinent region.

The program that I would like to point to with some pride that is worldng quite well is the Used Tire Management Pro gram, providing financial support to the tire recycling companies to encourage used tire recycl ing. The program is funded via the environmental protection tax on tires, soon to become a levy rather than a tax.

The industry in Manitoba has increased its capacity to recycle used tires from 70, 000 to in excess of 600,000 tire s per year, and we are expecting additional investment of both tire recycling and tire retreading, so we are close to striking a balance between what is being taken out of the waste stream and what is being added to the waste stream on a monthly basis .

That is about as close to a completely operational tire recycling program as you are likely to get We do not yet, however, have the capacity to deal with the large off-road tractor tires and motor gradeiS , those type of tires, but that capacity will be developed as the marlcet unfolds. The program provides subsidies to municipal governments to help cle an up their stockpiles at waste disposal grounds . Twelve landfills have been cleaned up so far and nine companies are currently registered under the program to be eligible for receiving credit.

Rate of payment to registered companies is based on the fo ur-R hierarchy, the amount of processing occurring in Manitoba and analysis of the cost of the pro ject. The current range is from $1. 50 per tire to $2.50 per tire and funds are only advanced when the tire products are sold. Draf t tires storage guidelines are being circulated and WRAP regulation will be developed, which will allow us to move from a tax to a levy for managing this produ ct.

Oil recycli ng: We are cmTently worldng with industry, because there is an increasing demand that is now available for consum ption of used oil to the point where it would be to everyone 's advantage , and particularly the environmental effective ness of getting used oil out of the waste stream, I think, can be run quite appropriately using marlcet forces as the demand for this product is growing.

An industry group is examining stewardship possibilities for used oil across the prairie provinces, and our program will obviously be ready-made to help stimulate some activity on this front if the capacity to recycle the material is developed. The department intends to continue designations under the hazardous waste definition though, and that is still under some discussi on as to what is the best route to handle the materials. Certainly we need across-Canada uniformity in how this material is ultimately to be handled, particularly if we are talking about regional co-opera tion. •

(1520) Just a couple of words on the Regional Waste Management program. It was established in '92 to investigate the fe asibility of developing regional landfills. A total of $400,000 was allocated to 22 pro jects from the Susta inable Development Innovations Fund for fiscal years '91 through '94. The response in quality proposals submitted has been very positive . Seven proposals in '91-92, 10 in '92-93 and five received in '93-94. Matching grants to a maximum of $20,000 were made to groups and municipalities interested in investing in the fe asibility of establishing the regional waste management syst em.

While there are not a lot of areas where you can point to large regional recycling capability being established, almost all of the province now has a significant amount of inform ation about the volumes and the capabilities of working with

3012 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 6, 1994 adjacent juris dictions for establishing regio nal fa ciliti es. That information will allow them to direct it to something other than regional sites if they wish, but to choose what they believe is ultimately the most appropri ate regional or single app roach to management of their solid waste . This was, of course, all driven because we have now required more of a controlled process at our land sites and improper bmning has been more or less eliminated, almost completely eliminated I guess would be the correct way to characterize it.

In fa ct, I sense a very high level of desire to be co-operative ammg municipalities at this juncture. Many areas simply will not be able to participate in regional plans, and we were worldng with those local governments to make sure that they have app ropriate solid waste management options that are with in their means and still provide the envirmmental protectim that is needed As the members are no doubt aware, in July of '93 I ann ounced the initiation of an ind ustry supported multima terial program.

Those negot iations were proceeding tow ards the development of a Canadian industry packaging stewardship ini tiative, but we were unable to bring those negotiations to an appropriate conclusion. The department has emba!ked on doing some worlc on the revisim to The WRAP Act to make sure we have complete confidence in the capability of the act for us to, by regulation, provide a program that is very much the same concept that was put fo rwanl by the Canadian industry packaging and stewardship initi ative.

Under the new regulatory fram ew ork, businesses responsible for packaging and paper which becomes waste will share the responsibility for managing these wastes through the proposed stewanlship program of the designated products and mat erials. The levy placed on these materials will be to fund both recycling ef forts and give business a direct marlcet base incentive to reduce those wastes. Again, I ref erence the used tire program where ma!ket-based incentive, I believe , is worldng well.

We will be working with municipalities, industry partici pants, newspaper publishers and the general public to develop a program which aims to bring recycling to appr oximately 75 percent of Manitob a's households and reduce packaging waste in this province by 50 percent by the year 2000.

Implementation commi ttees to get programs up and running this year in Wmni peg and the communities outside the city are being formed Draft legisla tion-as I indic ated, we will be making amendments that will be introduced within the next day or so and draft regulations to support this stewardship program will be released as well as quickly as possible once the amendments are in place on the act.

There is a high level of interest throughout the province and the city, and I expect this will be a very successful and high-profile program that will ultimately involve not only from a levy base , but into a market-based adjustment to the levy so that those products that truly have some recyclable value will start to be able to benefit from that and have their levies adju sted accordingly. l will touch briefly on the Sus tainable Development Innovations Fund.

As you are aware, there is a separate booklet, I believe that is what the member has in her hand there or it is one very similar, that has been produced and tabled in the Legislature. Total expenditures as of March '94 were $3,553, 000 that were app roved out of the fund.

Major allocations were in this area: $550,000 for waste minimization; $78,000 for pro jects that were carried over from the previous year; $200,000 for the Environmental Youth Corps program; $100 ,000 for the City of Winn ipeg waste disposal pr ogram; $1 16 ,000 for pro je cts under the Manitoba products stewardship program; $80,000 for pro jec ts under the Regional Waste Management Assistance Fund; and $300,000 for the City of Winnipeg comprehensive recycling program in con junction with Manitoba steward ship program; and the fol lowing waste man agement pro jects: recycling and collection, $1 57 ,000; educa tional aware ness, $42 1,000; regional waste management, $11 2,000; regional

June 6, 1994 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3013 recycling networks, $368 ,000; ma rke t development, $394, 000. As members are aware, the fund source is environmental protection taxes which curre ntly apply to alcohol bever age conta iners and disposable diapers. Environmental Youth Corps bas been funded during the past three years. We believe that it bas been very su ccess ful, touching over 19,000 youth between the ages of 6 and 24 who have participated in the program. Some 200 pro jects have received approval in ex cess of $4 35,000 and fund support has been pro vided.

I have every reason to believe the coming year will be equally as successful. As you will note, there are no ongoing joint fe deral-provincial environmental assessment activities at this time . With respect to the North Central Transm ission Pro ject, the department issued a licence on February 22, 1994, to Manitoba Hydro for that pro ject.

The licence requires Manitoba Hydro to establish liaison committees in the pro ject communities , protect wildlif e habitat and forestry resources, con trol handling of oil and other petroleum products, and use people and equipment to control weeds once the pro ject is completed. Chemical use is prohibited. All the licence requirements are consistent with the re comm endations of the North Central Environmental Review Panel. The Conawapa Environm ental Review Panel was terminated after Ontario Hydro cancelled the power contract with Manitoba Hydro.

I will bring you up to date later on what we are doing to help rationalize environmental responsibilities between the province and Canada and eliminate some of the duplication that was very obvious during these two processes that I just referred to. On the other band, I think the North Central Panel and Conawapa are an example of where the province bas been willing to work co-operatively with the federal authorities in the best interests of doing the job right and taking our environmental protection respomibilities seriously.

We continue to administer the environmental assessment review and approval process under The :Environment Act, The Dangerous Goods Handling and Transportation Act, and The Public Health Act. The process was established in 1988. It incotp orates public input into all final decision making, but we do need to remind ourselves that it does provide flexibility on a specific-site basis. Efforts are .now being made through comultation with customers to minimize time requirements in dealing with these propo sals. A major concern in many sectors these days relates to land contaminated by past activities.

Remediation of these properties can be extremely expemive and determination of who is responsible and theref ore who should pay can be very complex and conten tious. Lando wners , lenders, realtors , industrialists, land develo pers, municipalities and manufacturers are all critically interested in this probl em. We have been active on two fronts with respect to this issue : a le adership role nationally by chairing a national task group on contaminated site liability under the auspices of CCME.

The group is a multistakebolder with a tO-member core group and advisory group in excess of 50 representing some 3 7 organizations. The task group bas developed principles that will be used by the various jurisdict ions, so development of their legislation is now looking at bow to resource the remediation of o tpban sites and shares where there is no identifiabl e, viable, responsible party. We have a multistakeho lder advisory committee in Manitoba that is currently drafting legislation to incotporate the nationally developed principles into Manitoba legislation.

The work of this group will be tabled in the Legislature this session in the form of a discussion paper and will be the target of widespread consultation and discussion. I believe we have fo und a way to fairly and openly apportion liability for the remediation of contaminated sites in this province that are posing an environmental risk or a health risk within the jurisdiction. Our livestock waste management regulation has been introduced and is now eff ective. The new

3014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 6, 1994 regulation under The Environment Act has recently been put into eff ect. This regulation prescribes requirements for the use, management and storage of livestock waste and mortalities in agriculture operations so that livestock operations can be operated in an environmentally sound manne r. Particularly, hogs represent a very high potential for ma jor expansion and all the econo mic benefits that flow from that. This regulation represents sustainab le development in action.

Their industry needs it to have some credibility in its pl anning for develo pment , and the public needs it to ensure these operations will not harm the environment I am sure we will have an opp ortunity to discuss those issues further. • (1 530) I touched on the ozone deple ting substances regulation, the stewardship material regulation. It should be pointed out that a Rockwood sensitive area regulation has been implemented to protect against the mi gration of the ground water contamination so that area can continue to be confident that that unfortunate incident will not spread further within the aquifer.

As I indicated, we are moving within The Waste Redu ction and Prevention Act on further developments with the tire program.

Onsite sewage disposal system regulation is an area that does not necess arily attract a lot of public attention, perhaps only rarely , but in fact is one that is of sig nificant importance in terms of environmental matters , because it is necessary to update our regulatory measures and present day standards including the prop osed regulation to provide for revised construction and siting standards for sewage disposa l systems, new requirements for septic fields in areas that have a high percentage of clay soil, requirements for training and certification of sewage install ers and haulers.

Our goal is to release a discussion document for public consulta tion, because this is an area that affects not only environment, a number of other cross-jurisdictional responsibilities within government, mun icipal authorities, he alth anthorities and certainly will likely be a long and torturous road to having a new regulation in that area, but one that in the Red River Valley is particularly important.

While it does not attract a lot of public debate, perhaps becanse of the nature of the topic, I know that in some of our regions, probably along the Red River corridor more than anywhere else , our local off icers get more complaints about private sewage systems and the issues that surround them than most other items that come up. The department has spent a significant amount of time wotking on a sw immi ng pool and water recreational facilities regulation.

A most unfortunate incident that occ urred about year ago in this province where a young lady was entrapped by her hair in a faulty system has led to a lot of work there that is being co- ordinated with other jurisdictions. Frankly, there have not been approp riate regulations established in this area, and we hope to be able to bring some clarity to that We are working with the federal government on a co-ordinated approach to environmental assessment on pulp and paper regulations.

We spend a lot of energy and a lot of staff time working on NAFTA and the North American free trade and the environmental side agreements that are ass ociated with that. I want to make specific note of the people within the department who work in con junction with other departments within go vernment in this area. Manitoba was one of the first jurisdictions that stepped forwaxd using the expertise of our people within government to put forw aro positions on the environmental side agreement .

Other jurisdictions either were not moving at that particular juncture or had philosophically taken a position in opposition to NAFTA, and therefore were not in a position to be at the table or did not want to be at the table ne gotiating what could potentially be successful and approp riate environmental side agreements . I suppose that points out why we had our nose out of joint as far as we did after the NACE office did not come to Manitoba because this jurisdiction

June 6, 1994 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3015 bad been involved very deeply from Day One in some of the impacts that go with North American free trade. A more mundane note, although it certainly has not been mundane from the start of the work that bas been done, Manitoba bas an ongoing and I think quite appropriate state of the environment reporting mechanism. This year, '94-95 , will be the next report. We will be preparing it looking to agriculture as the foc us of the report.

Besides its importance to our economy, agriculture is also a close relationship, obviously, with the environment, and I think we all look forward and welcome the review with that being the fo cus of this upcoming report. Water quality is proceeding as it does every year, continuing work, it seems never-ending work in the water management activities in the Red River basin, but, nevertheless, we finalized the watershed cl assi fication report for the entire Red River basin.

This activity actions original reports and recommendations to the Clean Environment Commissi on with respect to setting water quality ob jectives for the Red and Assiniboine and their tributaries, and in fact, is one of those other areas where staff , time, reso urces are expended but does not always attract a lot of public attention or credit but ultimately leads to broad changes that have significant impact and benefit to the environment. Very quickly, one other area that bas been alternately-we are either very, very smart or ve ry, very lucky, and that is in the area of zebra musse ls.

A lot of interdepartmental co-operation bas gone on in this area, Environment; Industry, Trade and Tour ism; Natural Resources; Northern Affa irs; and Rural Development have all been working together on the zebra mussels initiative . We have at least one dedicated person within the department who bas been working closely with Natural Resources in this area. It has primarily been based on knowled ge, educ ation and encouragemen t for the recreation public particularly to be aware of the issue and do what nee ds to be done in order to slow down the spread of these mussels.

But we have found them as close as Thunder Bay, and it seems to me that there is almost an inevitability that they may end up in this prov ince , but the longer we can delay it, the longer we can delay some very significant costs that would be ass ociated with managing them if they are transplanted into this province. The cost to Hydro, the cost to the Oty of Winnip eg and to almost all of our water sources, our water management sources would be extremely high. They will likely migrate , I suppose, despite our best efforts, but as I said, delay is money saved in this particular case .

I have to repeat, from our own gratification, if not the edification of my critics, that the fact that we have some 40 trailedoads of PCBs out of this province and Manitoba now bas got rid of 80 percent of its PCBs into the Alberta incinerator, is to my way of thinking very good news and something that should be greeted with some considerable amount of app lause, considering the amount of grief that PCBs can cause if they are in the wron g place or if they are even stored behind a school and some people take objection to it. With those comments, Mr.

Deputy Cbaitperson, I suppose I would also invite questions before this session is over on the activities of the Manitoba Hazardous Waste Management Corporation if there are still some lingering questions about some of their activities, but certainly they are involved with the department and doing some of the remediation work under contract.

They tender from time to time in competition, and they are presently-and the reason I put it in that context is that they are presently operating the remediation activities at The Pas in conjunction with an Ontario firm that bad a known technology that they wanted to expand their credibili ty, if you will , and their capability to sell that technology into other jurisdictions . Those are very lengthy comments, Mr.

Deputy Chairperson, but I think it indicates that, as my colle agues from time to time remind me, we are involved in an awful lot of the Natural Resource related activities that go on in government, and again, I want to give credit to the commitment of staff in helping to keep all these things juggled.

3016 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 6, 1994 Mr. Deputy Chairperso n: We thank the minister for those short comments . Does the critic from the official opposition party, the honourable member for Radisson (Ms. Cerilli ), have an opening statement? Ms. Mari anne CeriDi (Radiss on): Mr. Deputy Chaitperson, I appreciate the chance to participate in the review of the Estimates, and there certainly is a lot to deal with.

I have been in this position now for going on four years, and I feel like I have certainly learnt a tremendous amount and developed a greater unders tanding of what the minister fa ces during this time of recession and the changes that are going on internationally with the economy and the difficult job that we have as a province of trying to deal with the environmental crisis that we are in. I am concerned that I never hear the minister use those words. I never bear the minister talk about the state of the world and the fact that we are experiencing an environmental crisis. It is insidi ous.

It is affecting all sorts of areas of our ec onomy right here in Manitoba and international ly. It is aff ecting our health. It is affe cting our social institutions, our health care system-that is the kind of thing I mean by that It is affecting immigration and the dispossession of people , the movement of people throughout the world. It is having a great effect on the ability for us to have equality as it gets more and more difficult for certain regions to be self- sustainin g, self -sufficient in their food supp ly. •

(1540) The implications of the environmental crisis we are in are tremendous. Here we have one little department in Manitoba with a budget of, what is it, $15 million to $17 milli on over th e last couple of years that is trying to addre ss this in our pro vince.

I guess one of the things that struck me over the couple of years that I have been in this role is, although we have had a government that has put quite a bit of money into the round table on susta inable development and into various materials that have been brought out to the public, I do not fe el that we have really seen a change in government structure, in govermnent p roces s and in the way that a government integrates decision making and policy and programs to really change the way that we are appro aching environment development questions .

I have had the opp ortunity to attend a variety of wonderful conferences and meetings with peop le. 1bere really is a wealth of inf onnation out there. 1bere really is a wealth of ideas. There is a whole great opportunity, I think , to change and to refonn and to transfonn both government intervention through an Environment dep artment, as well as change in the economy. I think. as I have developed my own analysis and understanding of environment development questions, I do not look anymor e at the Environment department in isolation.

I have , I think. erased the boxes as a lot of people start to talk about where we start to look at the linkages between environment and health and social justice and the economy and various other areas related to resource and agricultur e and the number of diff erent departments that we have . One of the things I am concerne d about is seeing how this department is involved in trying to apply the concepts of a more sustainable economy and more sustainab le culture. I think a lot of it has to do with the culture that we live in and the values that we have.

I think we can no longer look simply at the economy in the way that we have in terms of a very linear kind of development, and I would like to give the minister a chance, after we are finished our opening comments, to talk a little bit about his role in defining this government 's ap proach to sustainable development in the fa ce of the globalization of trade and the automation that we are seeing in the economy. These are some of the larger issues. I find that is continually what we have to do is go between what is happening internationally and what we are facing here provi ncially.

One of the other things that I try to focus on is the tools that we can develop as a provincial government to create a more environmenta lly sustainable econo my. So I want to fo cus on that a little bit today too and to try and get some

Iune 6, 1994 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3017 understanding from the minister of the tools that he thinks that his government and his department have developed. What do we have going for us so that we can see some real change? Some of the things that I think are really valuable are environmental impact asse ssment. I see that as a great tool to integrating environment development , health, and justice . This government 's record on environmental impact as sessm ent, I would say, is pretty horri ble.

We are starting the hearings right now on Louisiana-Pacific, and they have used their authority to, I think, create a process that is not in keeping with the principles that they say that they believe in in tenns of sustainable development. It is another example of how they have either manipulated or not had the kind of environmental process that is really going to lead to change.

I think there are a number of actions that this government has taken, whether it is in legislation like Bill 49 and Bill 41 and some of the other legislation that they brought in, Bill 38, changing The Wudlife Act, that they have gone backwards . We have in a number of areas gone backwards under this government. I will temper that with saying that maybe there are some initiatives that this government has taken that have been somewhat positive , but I would say that they have been in the more narrow sense. They have done some decent things with ozone depleting substance s, yet I hear also concerns about that.

They have done some reasonable things in the area that the minister likes to talk about, which is the recycling and tires. Yet, though, we still, I think, have not addre ssed some fundamental problems in terms of market development in some of those areas. I am also very concerned about the staffing in the department. I am concerned about the burden on the staff. I am concerned about the burden [interjection] The minister says, what about the burden on him? I wonder sometimes.

I know that I dealt with this a lot in the last Estimates of trying to get a better picture of the people who advise the minister and the place where he takes his advice. I can appreciate that it is no easy job to be a Minister of Environment in this time. But that brings me to the other concern that I have and the perspective that I have that a lot of advice out there is available to the minister, and I think it will take some courage to listen to that advice . That is why I was so concerned and continue to be concerned about the min iste r's actions in terms of the Manitoba Enviro nment Council.

I do not separate change in environment and development areas with change in some of the political structures that we have. We have to create procedures and processes that are going to give people a voice and are going to involve as many people in environment development matters as possible . That is why I am so concerned that the minister is going backwards in trying to silence the number of volunteers through the Manitoba Environment Council. He made comments the other day in the House that it was not functioning well , that people were not coming out to meetings anymore.

I would suggest that is because the number of scientists and activists in that council fe lt that they were not being listened to, that they were being ignored, and that is the reason that they are not as eager to participate. The y, I think, are finding different avenues other than coming directly to the minister and bending his ear. It seems like the government has turned a deaf ear to a lot of the scientific expertise that has come from different universities or different community groups.

I find that really a concern because , like I was saying, I think that we are only going to see real change when we also erase the boxes and start to change our political structures which I think are maintaining the status quo and resisting change towards true economic reform that is going to allow a more environmentally sensitive economy and decision making. So with those comments, I will stop and pass off to my Liberal critic, colleague, and then look forward to getting into some questions and discussion.

3018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 6, 1994 Mr. Deputy Chairpers on: I thank the honourable member for those remarlcs. Does the critic for the second opposi tion p arty, the honourable member for Osborne, have an opening statement? Ms. Norma McCormick (Osborne) : Yes, Mr. Deputy Chai!person, a brief statement. I want to begin by saying that I have a degree of famil iarity with this department having had the opportunity to work with it and having been a client of some of its services over a number of years.

I would like to support the minist er's statement that there is, in fa ct, a high level of technical competence in the department I think what I would like to fo cus on, though, as I go through this first Estimates p rocess is how can this technical competence be supported so it can be retained. I remain concerned that the decreasing budget for this depart ment, in a time when there is increasing demand being placed on it, is entirely inappropr iate.

I am going to be looking for evidence that there has been some thought given to the enforcement cap ability for some of these new regulations which are being brought on stream.

Of course , in his opening remarlcs the minister spoke of innovative solutions to the problems of enf orcement and, in fact, I think: there are some things which could be done, but I will be seeking some more definition on what the minister meant by innovative solutiom . • (1 550) I think: the introduction of acts and regulation into the process creates a need for bringing the content of those and the expectations they place on the regulated community to the attention of the people who are impacted by them.

You used The Ozone Depleting Substances Act and regs as illustrative of a way in which the industry can be co-opted into perfonning many of the educative activities. I think: we, though, still need to think clearly of what is involved in the price of partnership. Is the

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Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	35-5-41a
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	35th 5th hansardpdf 41a.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	8901d080c4a219c15daf8328a2f1f39e04e0ca55

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